"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b24aebfbabc4fd7bd81f81fd1f86508\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278a02ff66b754c28b86aeaf4febfdb82\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7ded09fbfce4a0e9629b012e540739d\u0022\u003EPRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c935838ab5e49688736de8d411821ff\u0022\u003EPRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022676d087ae18e4e4499af117a909533ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022676d087ae18e4e4499af117a909533ff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In recognition of the fact that it\u2019s Hindi Language Week, I\u2019ve asked Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi to say the prayer in Hindi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab692c98bcd4fe48241b880d59fa279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab692c98bcd4fe48241b880d59fa279\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Hey Parmatma, hum aapke aashirvaadon ke liye aapka koti koti dhanyavaad karte hain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003ESabhi prakaar ke niji swarthon ko swayam se door karke hum aadarniya maharani ke shaasan ko swikaar karte hue ye nivedan karte hain ki woh hamaare charcha karne ko disha-nirdesh dein taaki hum iss sansad ka maamle ka sanchalan samajhdaari, insaaf, karuna aur vidhi se New Zealand ke kalyan, tatha yahan ki shanti banaaye rakhne ke liye kar sakei. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002259c5fa545ab2486981d62e35086ee84e\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a95ca3445ba947508f0182c0350ef106\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022523956eb37af452a963831f53eef5edb\u0022\u003EHousing, Rental\u2014Minimum Standards\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00223e21a982a4714f359f9c2a9775dba2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e21a982a4714f359f9c2a9775dba2ab\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he believe that the residential property market, as currently regulated, leads to excessive profits for landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002285c65a5b77bf4d309aff3d516770b9be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285c65a5b77bf4d309aff3d516770b9be\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Although steep rent rises have hurt low-income renters in many cases in recent years, in general I do not believe that the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 leads to excessive profits for landlords. I do, however, consider that the Act does not strike the right balance between landlords and tenants. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve announced proposals to strike a new balance between providing tenants with more secure tenure and allowing them to make their house a home, while protecting the rights and interests of landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a1a0de40e96461881a92ef422dcf4a3\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If landlords are not making excessive profits, then who will pay the costs of the new standards the Minister intends to regulate for the upkeep of rented homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb2c7b8d4ef443e3ac007761a95b79d9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would expect that the cost of meeting the new standards, like those that are set out in the draft standards for the Healthy Homes Guarantee Act\u2014like, for instance, putting in a heat pump or some insulation or draught-stopping or drainage\u2014will be dealt with in exactly the same way as landlords do currently, as when the house needs painting or the roof needs replacing or the piles need fixing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd278d9e17c4931b467b66fda326f8d\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister saying that landlords are not making excessive profit, tenants are hurt by steep rent increases, and, now, new costs will be put into the renting of property and that will somehow be paid for by magic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c26ace2075d49cc8c9dca4735579e60\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not at all what I said. I said that in some cases, in some regional housing markets, low-income renters have been hurt in recent years by rising rents, primarily caused by a lack of housing supply. But I would say that our Government is unapologetic about the fact that we are modernising the standards for rental properties, because in our view it\u2019s long past time that this country was sending 40,000 kids to hospital every year with infectious diseases, mostly because they\u2019re living in rental properties that are cold and damp. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f6f5beaadb044618251df3397b8d42b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was tight and asked who will pay the cost of improvements to homes. I don\u2019t believe the Minister even tried to address that basic kernel of who pays the cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f738fc78884d11bfb57d23d8a27fdd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33c088b7bd144cab04fe90cddd8d8d4\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: What changes is the Government proposing to how the residential property market is regulated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218eab5f844db4b96b6e3c312f584ca60\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Our tenancy laws are antiquated. They don\u2019t reflect the fact that renting is now a long-term reality for many, many families. The Government is proposing changes that will strike a fairer balance between providing tenants with security of tenure and allowing them to make their house a home while protecting the rights and interests of landlords. We know that the vast majority of landlords take good care of their properties and treat their tenants fairly. Those people will see no real change from the Government\u2019s reforms. However, the current law is so weak that it permits a small number of exploitative people to rent out unhealthy, dangerous houses and charge exorbitant rents. Our reforms will clean up the rental market, and that\u2019s good for the vast majority of landlords and their tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002294297c09be0f449498f40d35352ba7d1\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Refugee Quota, Starting-out Wages, and Employment Relations Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00221389504d0eb747f9bd0b4a820ed7e583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221389504d0eb747f9bd0b4a820ed7e583\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7e8934cebaa43f880c76a03c3d49198\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7e8934cebaa43f880c76a03c3d49198\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou e Te Whare. Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3df6e28527480486cbbd500a8b6953\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is it her Government\u2019s policy to increase the refugee quota to 1,500 or is that simply a \u201Cpersonal commitment\u201D of Iain Lees-Galloway, as she described it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485e441e2339413198da5fd52203af72\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve described to this House many, many times before, the policies of this coalition Government are contained in the confidence and supply agreement, the coalition document, and the Speech from the Throne. All other policies go through a Cabinet process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b416e5a090e4bfa96e2e57c2baa8ad9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So is it her Government\u2019s policy to increase the refugee quota of 1,500 or is that simply a personal commitment of Iain Lees-Galloway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227791e6ff48a34d71a753f3e362ee3427\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said many times before, all policies of this Government are contained in the confidence and supply agreement, the coalition document, the Speech from the Throne. All other policies go through a Cabinet process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf9e318408d14c6281a48ca8f8218030\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government abolish starting-out wages by October 2018?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258e04d4f31474d27b0eb9366074d6e31\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: A third time. Look, it\u2019s clear that we have established policy between this coalition Government that\u2019s set out in the public domain. Everything else goes through a Cabinet process. Now, I know the member continues to be jealous that he is not on this side of the House in the position to make the changes that this Government has made, and that we have achieved in one year more than that Government achieved in nine, but we stick to a process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4bf0095118c43bbaf68dbbb97630c08\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So when Iain Lees-Galloway said in December in a ministerial press statement that the Government will abolish starting-out wages by October 2018, was that just a personal commitment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48d31bd5acc49c880cb088f9f750665\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, every policy we go through goes through a process. Now, the member on that side of the House seems to refuse to accept that it is possible to have three different parties with three different views, who are still able to increase wages for New Zealanders; deliver benefits for low-income families to the tune of, on average, $75 a week; make substantial changes in investment into transport in our regions; make $1 billion worth of investment into our regions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a780b54bc7499f9d713f052e236c70\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I do want to warn the Prime Minister that when I stand and call for order, she sits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242288605374e4e7599e970b19ddfd19b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Can we no longer believe ministerial press statements unless they\u2019re signed off by Mr Peters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022523b1cd64f514a4ea7e2dc77f1223a13\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62e909a79ca4404a602b64e3574ed36\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her Government\u2019s policy to create multi-employer collective agreements (MECAs), which has been through Cabinet, and would, for example, force a business in Timaru to have the same pay rates as one in Auckland, or is that another of Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s personal commitments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c453e7a0d5148aba92990f60a1f4cc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, the member is demonstrating a lack of knowledge around the policy that\u2019s in that bill. It is possible, as that legislation stands, for variable rates to be included in MECAs. So the member clearly does not understand the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a83620c9214fad99c5037eb8e42c37\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which has been through Cabinet, have the full support of all parties in the coalition, or is that another personal commitment by the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abffa17d4efb46f3b3e26556552d95b1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If I could reference a quote made by the Deputy Prime Minister when a journalist speculated in this regard\u2014his response was they\u2019d been interviewing their typewriter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6ec09761c2430398aa224b3f8b4f41\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Deputy Prime Minister correct yesterday when he stated that the Employment Relations Amendment Bill was a \u201Cwork in progress\u201D, and, if so, what changes to the bill is her Government considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897e8f1db02041f19b6cb9a46a537f67\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have outlined many, many times before, we utilise the Cabinet process to agree everything that this Government declares and puts before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200c2cb81ca00487ba50d1829896c1f5d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a simple question: are changes afoot to the Employment Relations Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec1e2af4bebb4887a35a656fc9a4ae3d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: My response is that Cabinet determines any changes to legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f7b79175ef148478437264a35884399\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reality that she\u2019s confused about the progress of Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s bill, when Winston Peters says employment law changes are a \u201Cwork in progress\u201D and Clayton Mitchell says New Zealand First are proud to be supporting the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ffc8300e7342ff9955b03f9206fafd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The only one that\u2019s confused is the member asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efdf0fdba8df4341a9ccf4395495ad21\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does anything Iain Lees-Galloway say have the support of the Government, or has he simply gone rogue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c9133f35804417aeeeb9663902dc08\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We support the Minister in his work fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaa0ce438dd84c87958143e99a805afe\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll go to the real Prime Minister tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce25c6553027447798dc0898a8c8bea5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! If the member wants to ask another question, he stands up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292a971f6291b49758298f26819baafd4\u0022\u003EFiscal Strategy\u2014Settings and Framework\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022972af458f2224b3abf7134b16e529fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022972af458f2224b3abf7134b16e529fe5\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What actions, if any, has he taken to enhance New Zealand\u2019s fiscal settings and framework?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022935cf191fc0d4eb5bd632b7bd68d500d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022935cf191fc0d4eb5bd632b7bd68d500d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I announced our plan to update and enhance a key part of the Government\u2019s financial framework. In particular, this means embedding a well-being focus into the Public Finance Act. The proposed changes would require New Zealand Governments to set out well-being objectives alongside fiscal objectives that will guide budget decisions, and would also require Treasury to report on the well-being indicators, alongside traditional economic and fiscal indicators. Thirty years on from the establishment of both the State Sector Act and the Public Finance Act, it is past time for us to modernise these pieces of legislation to reflect not just fiscal accountability, but also ensure that the Government takes an approach that takes into account the overall well-being of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c886909a66c34b3fb4ade1b023656af7\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions has the Government taken to enhance New Zealand\u2019s fiscal settings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc27003fff341e195247691d2897d70\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Today, we have also released more details on the Government\u2019s planned independent fiscal institution as foreshadowed at Budget time. This institution would monitor the Government\u2019s adherence to its Budget responsibility rules and provide political parties with the opportunity for independent costings of their policies. This type of institution is common across the world, including in 26 OECD countries. It would add to the quality of debate in New Zealand by providing an independent, authoritative voice on matters that affect public finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f445fd2db0b44e68f4266318101b3f1\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these changes necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2f7a8bed57422f8f563c36ecd93abb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The primary goal of this Government is to enhance the well-being and living standards of all New Zealanders. The changes we are proposing put this goal at the heart of how Governments make fiscal decisions whilst also strengthening a responsible approach to fiscal management as required under the Public Finance Act. These changes are part of the Government\u2019s wider modernisation of our institutional framework, including reforms of the State Sector Act and the Reserve Bank, and these will ensure our economy and its systems are fit for purpose for the 21st century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247cde15b0fe64e44b161e16db6adfdc5\u0022\u003EEconomy\u2014Growth and Costs for Businesses\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022962f90aa7e5d4600b28cb1273942dda4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022962f90aa7e5d4600b28cb1273942dda4\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of the Government\u2019s statements and actions in relation to the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00225a05a9ed79c741d6841e57226ba723f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a05a9ed79c741d6841e57226ba723f9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100e, in the context in which they were made and undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227531e28d4b674e49b4d966c6bea02b31\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer in the House yesterday, when asked about the economy now being forecast to be $2.2 billion smaller than projected in the Budget, that \u201CThe economy is still growing\u201D, and does that mean he\u2019s not concerned about the missed opportunities that lower growth represents for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd472837ea4f4483b0d073ebbdeb821f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am always looking for opportunities to increase sustainable growth in New Zealand. But I cannot put it better than how Craig Hudson, the managing director of Xero, put it today when he said, \u201CTruckometer and consumer spending numbers are out and both look good. It\u2019s time to stop focussing on business sentiment surveys and focus on real data. Xero\u2019s July numbers show cash flow is better and employment numbers are up.\u201D On this side of the House, we\u2019re focused on real data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961d1aa76ea24fdea345fa1b53e9da36\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he not understand that even if the economy is still growing, if it\u2019s growing more slowly than it should be, that means fewer opportunities for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2680cd57ca945aab2c0af2d87b14b34\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We need sustainable and productive economic growth. The member well knows that the trend around GDP began declining at the beginning of 2017.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241f9b263df45484fa7a0bfed15c05b24\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So we just need growth, Grant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e047f2abd94c1683a97718f79a2d1a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member says we just need growth. That was the problem of the last nine years\u2014that that Government thought having growth rates of 3.5 percent but the world\u2019s worst homelessness was OK. We don\u2019t think that on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a9cdff37c24bc398a4a8070e17dc32\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So when he says he doesn\u2019t want to have an economy that\u2019s reliant on population growth, was he aware that GDP per person, which of course removes the population growth component, averaged more than 1.6 percent a year under the previous Government but actually declined in the last quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b120d2d34b1647cfa2043ba44e56acf5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will need to look at the last few years of the previous Government to see where the trend began on that. But I repeat: if we continued with the previous Government\u2019s approach of relying on population growth, relying on an overheated housing market, then we won\u2019t have the standard of living we need for New Zealanders into the middle part of the 21st century. There are two options here: drift along like the previous Government did or actually do something about making sure our economy is fit for purpose. We\u2019re getting on with the latter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f46c6147f1e4731b1d1100ec65a885b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that costs for businesses as measured by the producer price index (PPI) have gone up 3.4 percent a year under this Government compared to just 1.2 percent per annum under the previous Government; and, if so, is he concerned that those higher costs are going to be passed on as a higher cost of living for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ab3855af2847e99192ded873dc561e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s true that in the June 2018 quarter, producer input prices were up 1 percent, which is similar to the rise in output prices of 0.9 percent in the same quarter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e38600c6c634ac18ecc2b8ecda54692\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not what we\u2019re talking about. Look at the PPI.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad3cb2221be40749d017cb76a4dc6f3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, but that\u2019s exactly what the PPI is. This compares to an increase of 1.5 percent in import prices in the June quarter last year, when output prices rose 1.3 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d50a46aa42b437881269dc357215a5e\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So is it fair to say, then, that when he talks about transitioning the New Zealand economy, he\u2019s really talking about transitioning us to lower growth, higher costs, and lowered standard of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01d5c3843314ef285401036ad3fe832\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, what it means is that I\u2019m talking about a transition to an economy where we actually invest in 21st century transport systems, where we make sure that the people in our regions of New Zealand get a fair go, where we see wages lift, and we have a reason for New Zealanders to stay here in this country. The last Government decided that they were going to ignore all of those forward-looking things. We\u2019re not, and I really do encourage the member to listen to what Craig Hudson had to say. In businesses around New Zealand they understand\u2014they understand\u2014that there is a good environment now to do business and employ people. The member should get alongside them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002207bc51b1077240c2a1406160ed9c57d7\u0022\u003EKiwiBuild\u2014Mount Roskill Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022495e571690a74bdcbb03f11d6b91e240\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022495e571690a74bdcbb03f11d6b91e240\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he agree with all the reported statements of his Government on KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002287b052841d2742ed8950205fed85c44e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287b052841d2742ed8950205fed85c44e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by such statements, if correctly reported and in their context, including the statement from the Prime Minister that she is proud to lead a Government that is making housing more affordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216304644e94a4f40847c20efc615d3c9\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Mount Roskill development that he announced on Saturday the same project that started under National in October 2016, or is this a different project now because it\u2019s been rebranded KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd21a4a47124a0aae6a309f6493f934\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a different project because it\u2019s got a light rail line running right through the middle of the community, and not only has this Government committed to building 10,000 new houses, but 2,400 of them are going to be affordable KiwiBuild houses for young families to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a2334c997146d285d5e97b4b8d1097\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is $2 billion of capital allocation in Budget 2018 likely to be sufficient to \u201Cdeliver 100,000 quality, affordable homes throughout New Zealand within a decade.\u201D, or does he anticipate that more money will needed from future Budgets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022623de16dd89d46e7afda4e1a3ca17cce\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The answer\u2019s yes, to the first part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290caa89648e146b0a94886ab2eb9155c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so it will be sufficient\u2014OK. Are the KiwiBuild projects that have been announced so far likely to deliver a profit to the Crown to be reinvested in future projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123fee37448c48de830d9eb2af23d5e3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the KiwiBuild homes that are going to be built in these large projects will be supported through the $2 billion recycling fund, but, actually, those large projects in general are expected to wash their face\u2014that is, they are expected to break even over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022673643f9c7b546ad907a0bb89f4b69aa\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he, then, agree with HLC\u2014formerly Hobsonville Land Company\u2014chief executive Chris Aiken, who said the cost of the Mount Roskill redevelopment project alone would be $4 billion, and that net cost \u201Czeroes off to a break-even position\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225503fdd209c74f719bce8c16c82b63c8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with Chris Aiken. He\u2019s an excellent, excellent public servant, and he\u2019s right; that development will break even.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dca7dfd22eb481cbd2f9040aeac227b\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that if KiwiBuild projects only break even, in order to deliver 100,000 homes with a budget of $2 billion, money will have to be recycled through the fund once every three months, and is this likely to occur?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ba475f674f6410db6228b1b9ff0331b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Over the 10-year period, a high level of recycling of that fund will take place. We\u2019re talking about investing and redeveloping an asset base that is worth billions of dollars. I know that the members opposite don\u2019t think it\u2019s possible to build affordable homes for New Zealanders. They don\u2019t think it\u2019s possible to build whole new communities, which is what we used to do in this country routinely a generation ago. It\u2019s a shame that for nine years, they had so little ambition. That\u2019s the reason we got into the housing crisis in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef55cbc20ef844f3b4a7348013984bd9\u0022\u003EKiwiBuild\u2014Targets and Mount Roskill Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00229db6e1f6bd184e7fb668012ccf8e0046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db6e1f6bd184e7fb668012ccf8e0046\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: What progress, if any, has been made towards the Government\u2019s KiwiBuild homes targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00229f05553b95f84993a6991fe9212942c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f05553b95f84993a6991fe9212942c3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s more good news from the Government. On Sunday, the Government announced another large-scale development\u2014a transformational project to build 10,000 new homes for families in Mount Roskill. This development will include more than 2,400 modest, affordable KiwiBuild homes for first-home buyers, around 3,000 homes to be sold on the market, and more than 3,000 new warm, dry State houses. Building in Mount Roskill South has started already. In stage one, 80 new State homes will be built, with the first ready to move into by next year. Stage two will begin mid-next year and will see 90 worn out old State houses replaced with around 300 new homes, including 95\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5594a84c1924ed0a78c380844dc02a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d02f634c0a84115ae8c0a205c4e7a69\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government ensure that local residents are able to rent or buy homes in the completed Mount Roskill development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c991dd52fa6421ba3fa6f5776fe7545\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m determined that the local community benefits from this redevelopment and are not simply priced out of the new homes. HLC are working to keep the prices of KiwiBuild homes as low as possible, and we\u2019re working on long-term rent and shared-equity options. For KiwiBuild, we will be using priority ballots to ensure that local residents in Roskill have the first shot at owning their own home in their own community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b019857cb943ecb61ef064e2e96487\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Mount Roskill development fit within the Government\u2019s plans for large-scale urban development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223facb5e754dc45a89463a130156a11b6\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Mount Roskill development is the second fully integrated transport and housing development. HLC and the KiwiBuild unit are working closely with the New Zealand Transport Agency - led light rail project, to ensure that they are both fully integrated. Integrating transport and housing is how we invest in the infrastructure needed to get ahead of the growth. The Mount Roskill development joins Unitech, Northcote, and M\u0101ngere as initial large-scale developments, where this Government is building starter homes for young Kiwi families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c51c1bbe29d4fbc96738d59f842e25a\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is being made on the Government\u2019s immediate target of 1,000 KiwiBuild homes in 2018-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b5547fd782478593a7c4ec9cde0fc8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, on Monday, the Prime Minister also announced that the ballot had opened for the first 18 KiwiBuild homes at McLennan, and our Government is opening the door to families locked out of homeownership by building affordable starter homes where the market has failed. Another 12 properties are already under construction, and a further 58 of mainly three-bedroom homes will be built at McLennan. In the coming weeks, I\u2019ll be announcing more KiwiBuild projects, and tomorrow our Government will be announcing the first homes to be built through the Buying off the Plans initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c98a9587f9c4a54a977ff0e83d70aae\u0022\u003EBusiness Partnership Agenda\u2014Minimum Wage Increase and Provincial Growth Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00224b42e2351b1346f08b5cdeeae4bdb317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b42e2351b1346f08b5cdeeae4bdb317\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What components of the Business Partnership Agenda are designed to increase productivity and improve our economy\u2019s international competitiveness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226dde2bcc40eb43a5860ed30838830d25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dde2bcc40eb43a5860ed30838830d25\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E All of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222310a7748a944460b14cdb545fc00a4a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How will increasing the minimum wage by 27 percent in the next three years increase our international competitiveness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260c862e336f1433b810952b03e3d9273\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: More productive businesses and more productive workers will improve our international competitiveness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc3abef1e4e485686fe9341d7a5a3db\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So what is the process that leads to an increase in the minimum wage automatically leading to higher productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a3f26283814580875526ac55677bb9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t say it\u2019s automatic, but making sure that we lift the wages that New Zealanders get will mean that, firstly, they\u2019ll be spending more money in the economy, which we know that those on the minimum wage do. The member needs to get alongside the businesses in New Zealand who are involving themselves in things like high performance engagement programmes, which, actually, lift both\u2014[Interruption] Well, I\u2019m glad to see the members opposite laughing at some of our largest companies improving their bottom line, improving the prospects of their workers, and lifting their wages. It\u2019s possible to do all of them, Mr Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b4f69b8c3646cf9a296467edf47f2f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What would he say to an exporter whose products require a lot of labour and who doesn\u2019t believe he or she can remain in business while increasing their wages 27 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d5edec90f34a5eab42256856ef5f37\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That is hypothetical. The exporters that I talk to are ambitious for New Zealand. They want to get alongside the Government with our plan to lift investment in research and development, to build the infrastructure that will support them, and to get the free-trade deals that those exporters want. I think the member needs to be more optimistic about our exporters\u2019 prospects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411c55ef2ae04b9b9195d446065e366a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the Provincial Growth Fund, which he hopes will be a driver in productivity, has so far devoted less than 1.5 percent of its funds to the entire South Island, and, if so, is it fair to conclude that the Government is not focused on South Island productivity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1261b58fb8b4b899a51a9c0bc334491\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. As somebody who grew up in South Dunedin, I can tell you that this Government has got a laser-like focus on all of the regions of New Zealand. And, indeed, Mr Shane Jones, the provincial champion, has been touring both the North and the South Island to some acclaim all over the provinces of New Zealand, and I have great confidence in him that we will see the fruits of the Provincial Growth Fund spread widely\u2014I hesitate to use the word \u201Cseed\u201D; the fruits, anyway\u2014across the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4a534f0ac1d4a75bc32d85281f6f01b\u0022\u003EDigital Services\u2014Appointment Process for Chief Technology Officer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00223072740b57e7465d9925cae0776c2181\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223072740b57e7465d9925cae0776c2181\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of State Services: Has the process for appointing the Government\u2019s Chief Technology Officer been consistent with the commitment \u201Cto be the most open, most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022446678370ed74b619abc5b74e9198dae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022446678370ed74b619abc5b74e9198dae\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad609fd6a1b4d63be659d0c6ac9ec86\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was Derek Handley offered the appointment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58aec193c384c27b5af8c8d127913b6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s in the interests of natural justice or the public interest to comment on the process while it is still a live process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d3b11b791454bc1a495a3d331caa5a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Was the successful candidate for the Government\u2019s chief technical officer advised at or around 14 August, in light of his answer to written question No. 17144 that unsuccessful candidates were advised on that date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d46d72f12774bd384414c7fb4755edd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I indicated in my previous supplementary answer, while it is a live process, I don\u2019t believe it is in the interests of natural justice or the public interest to comment further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa6758c5b4841b6ac305c31ae0aee31\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Are there further undisclosed emails through former Minister Clare Curran\u2019s private Gmail account in respect of the appointment of the Government\u2019s Chief Technology Officer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a21e5824e44f1ea8cffc6e23783426\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding is that all of Clare Curran\u2019s Gmails that relate to this issue are being archived\u2014handed over for archiving\u2014so they are part of the public record. Therefore, they are subject to the Official Information Act, and, therefore, they will be fully captured and disclosed, if required, under the relevant processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220caba6ba9cc34f0f83f3365e676a33e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was a very direct one: are there further emails that were not disclosed of by Clare Curran in respect of the appointment of the Government\u2019s chief technical officer? The Minister did not address that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca398dbf64594089a54f5f0ca1b1a01b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to address it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc82a19f1cc849a99e1e7429a90702bf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0a4f5770354995a0df258cb6ec9114\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to address it further, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3404bc94ec844e6b1ebcc692d1c0516\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287581bf559854d97b6c4561dee20a8da\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was inherent in my answer that in the archiving process, of course, any further emails to those already disclosed will be identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c85a6aed670474f95c55174a90ca1fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister directly asked former Minister Clare Curran whether there are further undisclosed emails through her private Gmail account in regard to the appointment of the Government\u2019s Chief Technology Officer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9e8b9c1008c4e19aa5d3ded896fe4fb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve not personally had that conversation, but I do understand that conversation has been held within the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b859d7bc9f364ca69b26c3270d10f5d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Who has specifically had the discussion with former Minister Clare Curran on what private emails exist in respect of the appointment of the Government\u2019s Chief Technology Officer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b68b4375ce41e1b98e2c1c4e78120b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s been held relatively publicly, but I also understand that the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister\u2019s office have had conversations along those lines with Clare Curran. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4094a922ac463fac228c8ea7afb116\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that the process of appointment has been so tainted, by the secret emails and meetings by the former Minister and with the comments from the industry, that the appointment is now so tainted that it cannot have credibility and that the Government needs to start the appointment process all over again and try to get it right third time round? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022867be8b314aa42479c858b43a8b5e6a6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Consistent with my earlier supplementary question answers, I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s in the public interest to comment on that matter while there is a live process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262248a1e80644174abc1a775f6147a23\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014Learning Support and Direct Access Pathway\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u002263c8b62f1ad94db8983fbe4f942a8228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263c8b62f1ad94db8983fbe4f942a8228\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: What actions, if any, has the Government taken to provide more options for children and young people with complex and challenging learning-support needs and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6dadc66793a49039ea4a569241ed2cd\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bcc3dff0e724e54935a804e10ba960a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Tracey\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63b054d33164064949f222e6831963e\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Martin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873bf3da103b4d518fb502f237e18093\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Martin\u2014sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a01c12d3921b4a409a375ad8945a6a76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a01c12d3921b4a409a375ad8945a6a76\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Associate Minister of Education)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb83256974823865b3383495ef424\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to call you Tracey Nelson. I don\u2019t know why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222065eab2454a4540b6551d6313ccfbea\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right. Other speakers have called me other things too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f33f7efc2e34f55a0f3532425c91003\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so have I. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2df3eeb86b7475b9f6c8d6a72465493\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: On 23 August, the Minister of Education and I announced a new direct access pathway for students with complex learning-support needs to attend residential schools. This will mean that more children and young people will be able to enrol in Government-funded places at our three residential special schools: Halswell, Salisbury, and Westbridge. We are delivering on a commitment to ensure that our young people can access the support they believe provides the best option to participate in and progress their learning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ec8b64dbdd447caba7f77c497570e8\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: How does the new direct access pathway make it easier for children and young people to apply to enrol in residential schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5779bbd05de4411946b2ac86e13c3a9\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Previously, access to a residential special school was via the Intensive Wraparound Service. The direct access pathway will allow children and young people to be assessed by independent regional panels\u2014as they are for the Intensive Wraparound Service\u2014to enrol at the school without having to be accepted into the Intensive Wraparound Service first. Families are able to put in their enrolment applications now, with the new pathway commencing in term 4. Residential schools and parents have been asking for some years to establish another enrolment pathway for young people with complex needs to go into residential schools. We made this commitment, and we are pleased to have been able to deliver on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfc475baf6ca4b208ae21d095369849d\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u2014Contact with Minister of Government Digital Services and Minister of Customs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00220eac16d368bc4329bec4005aed9a57b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220eac16d368bc4329bec4005aed9a57b0\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00223275c73649c340239f80fb90f925b0fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223275c73649c340239f80fb90f925b0fb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222db9abc5c4db422f80b9a884c02e2dc1\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister asked Clare Curran whether there are more emails between her and Derek Handley? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411f071d9ee44207a2d2db90e159391f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I believe I advised yesterday, I have had the assurance from Minister Curran\u2019s office that she will be ensuring that all relevant correspondence across all forums are appropriately archived. Those will then be able to be accessed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225384688e9d904126b094b2a89ec4ea11\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister had any conversations, emails, or texts with Derek Handley?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229efb4a7365d9447ea422e825988f62c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I have in the past had correspondence with Mr Handley. It\u2019s on the public record that I\u2019ve known him for a number of years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c01e118c77a4a6f914759056e94d6a1\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister publicly disclose those conversations, emails, or texts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f978266bb94d49a69a360f4c109b9e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I am subject to the Official Information Act, as everyone else in this House is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc38a98efff4553bbc514fbd3dd7fc3\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: When Meka Whaitiri told her she did not assault her staff member, did she believe her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ad9917fab3492599bec3ea395c8293\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the House yesterday, this is a contested allegation. That is why it\u2019s being investigated by Ministerial Services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aa90450905b48e58de5476e9df77c7e\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Can her Ministers have confidence in her to take them at their word and not question whether they are telling the truth and then get Ministerial Services to investigate them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022688bbf87362d4525b687318e50401bf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have advised this House recently, when I contacted Minister Whaitiri, she wanted this process to be transparent and open. She has been fully cooperating, and Ministerial Services, as is rightly so, is undertaking an investigation in a transparent way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283bee6d7ef09494b9db737b642791c5e\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: When she said in the House yesterday that \u201Cno personal grievances have been lodged against Meka Whaitiri since becoming a Minister.\u201D, is she aware of any other staffing issues in Meka Whaitiri\u2019s office where Ministerial Services have been involved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d686120ece4ef999cc450780f79fd2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I advised what my office had been advised in relation to personal grievances. We are otherwise investigating this specific allegation via Ministerial Services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265906afe63674a33bdf8fe52ccd79712\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 11\u2014Jonathan Young\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224daee99f43004c2f84598673977f0e12\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Shifty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002218c30f4f7eab447fbde3c961cb3850f0\u0022\u003EEnergy Market\u2014Electricity Pricing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ff4727f8ae4ea786ed8899953041c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ff4727f8ae4ea786ed8899953041c4\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E My question is to the Minister of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa5e912d808447d933a48d352e99822\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. The Leader of the Opposition will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291765463cfd44e8e9ebaf62cd2fab857\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1cf3904ed74c17aa00785a3cac3e1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1cf3904ed74c17aa00785a3cac3e1e\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022eff546a787434b768c16fe8a7444f767\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eff546a787434b768c16fe8a7444f767\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022576ea00fd6a74fde8dd1b4e2065d19f7\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: After saying New Zealanders deserve affordable electricity, will she guarantee that electricity price rises will be lower in the next three years than they have been in the last three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ba8984cd2974f4bbd93b125b99452b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: This Government was proud yesterday to release the first phase of a report in a two-part process. This outlined the issues that we have to deal with, and that identified in the report that we have a two-tier electricity market developing in this country. I note that the member who asked the question doesn\u2019t think there\u2019s anything wrong, but on this side of the House, when we think there are 103,000 households who are defined as being in energy hardship, we do see there is a problem. That is why phase two of the process will be examining those remedies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24382cb1f804cb994dc62bc546e6184\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 12\u2014[Interruption] No, the Opposition\u2019s supplementaries have been used\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f901fe2bb1b44d9b796a16c10103f55\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t think that the question was addressed and answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216640029a6dd4b64b411ce39bf9c0496\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022629ea6acd91246aaaf320372483f05a8\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Will she guarantee that electricity price rises will be lower in the next three years than they have been in the last three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d5d20eeaf64e9da44c110d80f8fb87\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: As I have previously answered the member, what was released yesterday was phase one of a two-part review that we are doing on electricity prices. That member does not think it is a problem that 103,000 households are defined as being in energy hardship. This is a Government that does see that as a problem. We are embarking on phase two. We will be looking for remedies. What I can guarantee that member is we will not bury our heads in the sand and think that there isn\u2019t a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234203524b189410cad77e31d742ceb38\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a very good answer for a different question. The member will have another crack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2849daa2e34cf586493ec9e933652a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Phase two of the report will be looking at remedies. What I can guarantee that member is that this is a Government that is committed to seeing those 103,000 households who are in energy hardship offered some release. We will be looking for remedies, and in terms of guarantees, I invite that member to submit his ideas into phase two of the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd811205790e4eb6b2d9f9110da5615e\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Does she agree with the Electricity Price Review chair\u2019s comments yesterday that the sharing of costs may need to be reallocated, and if so, how should they be reallocated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c2da49795c4495ab1366a06b1506bf1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I again point the member to the fact that this is phase one of a two-part review. I absolutely agree with the chair of the Electricity Price Review, Miriam Dean, who has done a wonderful job and produced a very accessible document, that these are questions that we need to think about. What we have seen since the 1990s is a 79 percent increase in electricity prices for households. That has not been matched by business or industry, and that is a conversation that we need to have from here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d91330c1ed74ae0b7baab8f0d7a726a\u0022\u003EEducation\u2014Support for Te Reo M\u0101ori in Schools\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022b13dc750cfe145fc934c3ec3727fa524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b13dc750cfe145fc934c3ec3727fa524\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education): He aha ng\u0101 h\u012Bkoitanga e takahia ana e ia ki te whakatairanga i Te Reo i roto i ng\u0101 kura, \u0101, me te neke whakamua atu i te w\u0101teatanga wh\u0101nui o Te Reo i ng\u0101 k\u014Deke tau katoa? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[What steps is he taking to promote the M\u0101ori language in schools and move forward the universal availability of it at all year levels?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022769570688a82450bbac879f89ecb2254\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769570688a82450bbac879f89ecb2254\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Associate Minister of Education (M\u0101ori Education)):\u003C/span\u003E Kua whakatakotohia e Te K\u0101wanatanga t\u014Dna wh\u0101inga matua kia whakaurua Te Reo M\u0101ori ki roto i ng\u0101 akoranga k\u014Dhungahunga me ng\u0101 kura tae atu ki te tau 10 i mua i te paunga o te tau 2025; kia whai w\u0101hi ai ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa o Aotearoa ki te ako, ki te whakamahi, ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Hei whakat\u016Btuki i t\u0113nei e, tuku \u0101whina m\u0101tau ki te r\u0101ngai whakaako m\u0101 te tautoko kaiako, m\u0101 te whakapiki haere i te m\u014Dhio me, te \u0101hei o ng\u0101 kaiako ki Te Reo M\u0101ori, otir\u0101, ki te ako an\u014D hoki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[The Government has set down its primary objective that the M\u0101ori language be included in courses for early childhood and schools right up to year 10 by the end of year 2025; that everyone in New Zealand participate in the learning, application, and speaking the M\u0101ori language. To fulfil this, we are providing assistance to schools and the educational sector by supporting teachers and increasing the understanding and ability of teachers to speak the M\u0101ori language but at the same time to teach it as well.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3d7f1bf4280477e8e64854e5fc6d62a\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Ka whakaae a ia ki te wh\u0101inga, kia ako ng\u0101 tamariki katoa i ng\u0101 kura o Aotearoa i Te Reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Does he agree with the objective that all children in New Zealand schools learn the M\u0101ori language?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a36fbcd5dd4d62b88234b6795be28f\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e, e tautoko ana ahau kia ako ng\u0101 tamariki katoa o Aotearoa i Te Reo Rangatira me, ng\u0101 kura puta noa i Te Motu. Ki te whakatutuki i t\u0113nei wh\u0101inga, me tuku \u0101whina m\u0101tou ki ng\u0101 kura me, te r\u0101ngai whakaako, m\u0101 te tautoko i ng\u0101 kaiako, m\u0101 te whakapiki haere i te m\u014Dhio me te \u0101hei o ng\u0101 kaiako ki Te Reo M\u0101ori, otir\u0101, ki te ako an\u014D hoki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[Yes, I endorse that all New Zealand children and schools throughout the land learn the chiefly language, to fulfil this objective. We must provide assistance to schools and to the educational sector by supporting the teachers, by increasing the understanding and ability of teachers to speak M\u0101ori but at the same time, to teach it as well.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4db71f2e0d4964b7d5c404ae9c28a6\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Ka tautoko a ia i te whakaaro kia whakatakoto hia he w\u0101hi m\u014D te ako i Te Reo hei kaupapa matua k\u0101ore r\u0101nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Does he support the thought that a provision be set down for the language to be taught as a primary subject or not?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb91e2448dab42928712c4e920ce6fff\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Kei Te Marautanga o Aotearoa k\u0113 Te Reo M\u0101ori e noho ana, \u0101, ko te t\u016Bmanako me poipoia kia tipu, kia ea ai, \u0101, kia pakari ai ng\u0101 kaiako, ng\u0101 kaimahi o ng\u0101 kura ki te whakamahi i Te Reo M\u0101ori ki ng\u0101 take me ng\u0101 karaihe katoa o te kura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[The M\u0101ori language is sitting instead in the New Zealand Curriculum, and the hope was that it be nurtured so it grows and fulfilled so that teachers and staff of schools are sturdy in applying the M\u0101ori language to issues and all classes of the school.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258d25d0fcd464904a2ab96d551d92e67\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Ka whakapikia r\u0101nei te rahinga o ng\u0101 karahipi haut\u016Btanga i roto i ng\u0101 kaiako Reo M\u0101ori hou, ka wh\u0101ia r\u0101nei he rahinga rite, he whakatairanga pai ake r\u0101nei i roto i ng\u0101 karahipi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Will the quantity of leadership scholarships in new M\u0101ori language teachers be increased or will a like quantity or a better promotion in the scholarships be pursued?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a2cf856a34c49529456464b296ad128\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: E m\u014Dhio ana t\u0101tou, me nui k\u0113 atu te nama o ng\u0101 kaiako Reo M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 kura M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 kura auraki hoki. I whakawhiwhia e t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga i t\u0113r\u0101 tau t\u0113tahi hau m\u0101 rima o taua miriona taara me t\u0113tahi hau m\u0101 tekau m\u0101 rima i te tau nei, kia piki ai ng\u0101 tekiona kore kaiako, p\u0113r\u0101 i aua hunga e ako ana i Te Reo M\u0101ori ki \u0113r\u0101, i te Kura M\u0101ori. He takahitanga tuatahi \u0113nei ki te whakatutuki i \u014D t\u0101tou wawata, kia ako ai ng\u0101 tauira katoa i Te Reo M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 kura engari, me ahu whakamua Te K\u0101wanatanga nei ki te rapu hohenga m\u014D t\u0101tou ki te mahi kia piki ake ai te nama o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e uru atu ana ki te umanga whakaakoranga, hei kaiako Reo M\u0101ori. \u0100, he mahi e haere whakamua ana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[We know that the number of M\u0101ori language teachers at M\u0101ori and also mainstream schools must be much more. This Government last year granted a fifth of that million dollars and a fifteenth this year to increase sections without teachers, like those teaching the M\u0101ori language to those at kura M\u0101ori. These are initial steps to achieve our aspirations so that all students learn M\u0101ori at schools, but this Government must move forward to seek out actions for us to perform to increase the number of people entering the teaching profession as M\u0101ori language teachers. It is a work in progress.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229785e440dec14ff3bca67d63fd2a6ccc\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Ka oati a ia ki te whakatairanga, ki te t\u016Btaki, ki te matapaki i t\u0113tahi w\u0101nanga Reo M\u0101ori m\u014D taua hunga e p\u012Brangi ana ki te mutu mai hei kaiako?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Will he promise to promote and meet and discuss a M\u0101ori language forum for those who want to be teachers?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022448406f187a6493bbb1e85b1b64c4c28\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Ko tetahi o ng\u0101 mahi o Te K\u0101wanatanga nei, he whakatakoto rautaki r\u0101ngai whakaako, ar\u0101, te Education Workforce Strategy, \u0101, ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 p\u0101tai e p\u0101taingia anai, me aha t\u0101tou kia kaha ake ai ng\u0101 kura kaiako, kia whakapakari ai r\u0101tou i \u014D r\u0101tou Reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[One of the tasks of this Government is to set down a teaching strategy sector, namely, the Education Workforce Strategy, and some of the questions being posed relate to what can we do so that school teachers are more resolute and that they perfect their M\u0101ori language.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a54dc7437184413854f72f49e8c6e75\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Ka p\u012Brangi a ia ki te hara mai ki t\u014D m\u0101tou hui taumata m\u014D ng\u0101 m\u0101tanga m\u0101tauranga, ng\u0101 mema M\u0101ori hoki, kia matapakihia tonutia t\u0113nei kaupapa, nau mai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Does he want to come to our summit conference on specialist skills in education, and M\u0101ori members too, where this initiative is to be discussed thoroughly; do come?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ced41370704708ab7c06a415d2ee29\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e, \u0101e e Te M\u0101ngai, \u0101e! \u0100, kia kaha hoki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa o Aotearoa, kia tukuna \u014D r\u0101tou whakaaro ki Te Maihi Karauna, t\u0113n\u0101 te kaupapa nui o Te Maihi K\u0101rauna, te rautaki a Te K\u0101wanatanga hei tautoko i Te Reo M\u0101ori, hoi an\u014D, ko t\u0113tahi o \u0101na wh\u0101inga, kia kotahi miriona t\u0101tau o Aotearoa e k\u014Drero M\u0101ori ana, \u0101, t\u014Dna paku matatau nei, i mua i te paunga o te tau 2040. Kai te marae nui o Te Motu nei, t\u0113nei rautaki e k\u014Drerotia ana, \u0101e, e mea ana m\u0101tou ki Aotearoa wh\u0101nui, me tono whakaaro mai. M\u014Dhio ana m\u0101tou kei te hiahiatia Te Reo M\u0101ori, n\u0101 reira, me kaha ki te whakaea i t\u0113r\u0101 hiahia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[Yes, yes, Mr Speaker, yes! And so all persons of New Zealand must be resolute as well in regards to submitting their thoughts about Te Maihi Karauna, that great policy, the strategy of the Government that supports the M\u0101ori language, and, accordingly, one of its objectives is that one million of us of in New Zealand are speaking M\u0101ori, with a small proportion of these becoming fluent by the end of the year 2040. This strategy is being spoken on the great courtyard of the nation; yes we are saying to New Zealand at large, send in a thought. We know that the M\u0101ori language is wanted, so work hard to fulfil that desire.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6390f15e80d49c2952528ef4f4a472d\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100 taku p\u0101tai, mehemea he p\u016Btea r\u0101nei kei Te Minita hei muru i te nama kia tae mai tetahi m\u0101hita ki te kura i Te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara me p\u0113hea te whakahua tika i Te Reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[And so my question, does the Minister have a fund or not that will wipe out an invoice for a tutor to come here to educate the National Party on how the M\u0101ori language should be pronounced correctly?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ace80917ad4ca2b20126d7a2af4bb4\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100, e aroha atu ana e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, \u0101, korekau he paku p\u016Btea hei \u0101whina i a r\u0101tou n\u0101 te h\u014Dhonutanga o te hiahia o ng\u0101 koretaketanga o t\u0113r\u0101 taha o Te Whare ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[I sympathise, Mr Speaker; there isn\u2019t a bit of funding to help them because of the depth of the ineptitude of that side of the House to speak the M\u0101ori language.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247cfbd781a254033b4025c88ce3cdc72\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we might\u2019ve had a polite interpretation there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a3c1808b7d149bd8b848465b3c6e077\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebfda155f3ae42268f10f3b14f9c0765\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00220e3f382899d1455dbb75613858c91b63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e3f382899d1455dbb75613858c91b63\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Crown/M\u0101ori Relations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai, Te Whare. Tuatahi, m\u0101ku hei t\u012Bmata taku k\u014Drero, e tika ana kei roto i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo rangatira kia poroporoaki i \u014D t\u0101tou tini mate. I reira au inanahi r\u0101 i te \u0101taahua o Waikare, ar\u0101 kei waenga i te hap\u016B o Te Kapotai. I reira e tangihia ana, e poroporoaki ana i te p\u0101p\u0101 o t\u014D t\u0101tou hoa mahi, ar\u0101 a Willow-Jean Prime; ar\u0101 ko Barry t\u014Dna ingoa. N\u0101 reira e tika ana kia tuku kupu maioha ki a ia i te r\u0101 nei, kua tukuna atu ia ki te k\u014Dp\u016B o te whenua, kia takoto ki te taha o t\u014Dna whaea. N\u014D reira, e te whanaunga, e te hoa Barry, haere, haere. Ka tae atu koe ki te okiokinga. N\u0101 reira, r\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou te hunga wairua; ka hoki mai ki a t\u0101tou, huri rauna i t\u0113nei Whare, ki te hunga ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EE harikoa ana ahau kia rongo ai Te Reo M\u0101ori e k\u014Drerohia ana kei roto i t\u0113nei Whare; ko t\u0113nei Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. N\u0101 reira he mea tika kia k\u014Drero ai t\u0101tou i Te Reo, kia rongo ai te h\u014Dhonutanga, te wh\u0101nuitanga o ng\u0101 take e w\u0101nangahia ai i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori. He mea pai t\u0113n\u0101. Engari ko t\u014Dku p\u014Duritanga ko Te Reo o\u2014ko te wiki, kotahi noa iho te w\u0101 ka rongohia e te nuinga o te Whare. Ko m\u0101tou e m\u014Dhio ana ki Te Reo M\u0101ori, he mea pai rawa atu kia k\u014Drero, \u0101 i ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa e taea ana, horekau m\u014D te wiki kotahi. N\u0101 reira ko te Whare nei e taea ana kia whakapakari ai \u014D t\u0101tou p\u016Bkenga i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori kia rongo ai i ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EEngari ka kite ahau \u0113tahi wahanga. Ka rongo hoki ahau \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Dhumuhumu n\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 taha, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero whakah\u0101wea, whakaparahako, whakaiti i a m\u0101tou e k\u014Drero ana. T\u0101ku e mea atu ana, ehara t\u0113n\u0101 tika ana i te mea ko Te Reo M\u0101ori Te Reo tuatahi o t\u0113nei motu. I te \u016Bnga mai o ng\u0101 waka tupuna ki konei ki roto o Aotearoa, ko Te Reo tuatahi muri atu i Te Reo o ng\u0101 manu me ng\u0101 t\u0101tarakihi ko Te Reo M\u0101ori. Horekau Te Reo M\u0101ori Te Reo tuarua o t\u0113nei Whare, o t\u0113nei motu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira ko ng\u0101 whakapae o t\u0113r\u0101 taha ka huri m\u0101tou ki Te Reo M\u0101ori hei karo atu i ng\u0101 p\u0101tai, hei karo atu i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o te Whare\u2014ehara t\u0113n\u0101 e tika ana, he mea whakaiti t\u0113r\u0101 kia p\u0101 atu i te hiahia ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori kei roto i t\u0113nei Whare. E pai ana m\u0101 r\u0101tou kia whakah\u0113 i te kiko o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero engari horekau e tika ana kia whakah\u0113 i te mahitanga o Te Reo M\u0101ori kei roto t\u0113nei Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EKo p\u014Duri ahau kia rongo ai t\u0113tahi k\u014Drero o t\u0113tahi Minita o mua m\u014D ng\u0101 take Tiriti, e whakah\u0101wea ana ko te roa o te w\u0101 e mahi ana ahau i te Crown/M\u0101ori relations, t\u0113r\u0101 kaupapa n\u014Dku. Hei t\u0101na, e rima miniti noa iho t\u0101na hei tuhituhingia i te, i taua take. N\u0101 reira ko ia t\u0113tahi tauira o te whakaparahako o, a t\u0113r\u0101 taha ki ng\u0101 take M\u0101ori. E tika ana m\u0101ku hei puta noa ki te motu wh\u0101nui kia rongo ai ng\u0101 hiahia, ng\u0101 moemoe\u0101 o te ao M\u0101ori e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei take. N\u0101 reira kia rongo ai t\u0113tahi Minita m\u014D, o mua m\u014D ng\u0101 take Tiriti e mea ana ka taea e ia te mahi taua mahi, a mahi i roto i te rima miniti, he mea whakaiti t\u0113n\u0101 i te ao M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, k\u0101ore t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga i te hiahia kia mahi an\u014D aua h\u0113 o t\u0113r\u0101 taha. Ko t\u014D m\u0101tou hiahia kia whakah\u014Dnoretia ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata whenua, kia mahi tahi i a r\u0101tou, kia m\u014Dhio ai t\u0101tou, kia ea ai m\u0101tou ng\u0101 raruraru e p\u0101ngia nei ki te ao M\u0101ori. E m\u014Dhio ana t\u0101tou kei raro iho te ao M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 tatauranga o Te K\u0101wanatanga, n\u014D reira t\u014D m\u0101tou hiahia kia mahi, kia h\u0101paitia te ao M\u0101ori kia \u014Drite te mana kei roto i ng\u0101 take o te motu ki t\u014D te mana, kei t\u014D te oranga o te ao P\u0101keh\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, e tika ana t\u0101tou kia k\u014Drero ai Te Reo i t\u0113nei wiki, engari me p\u0113hea te wiki whai muri ake i t\u0113nei, me p\u0113hea te wiki muri atu i t\u0113r\u0101 wiki? He mea tika m\u0101 t\u0101tou kia k\u014Drerotia i Te Reo M\u0101ori i ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa, kia rongo ai te h\u014Dhonutanga, te wh\u0101nuitanga, te \u0101taahuatanga o t\u014D t\u0101tou taonga Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker, and to the House. Firstly, to begin my speech, it is only right to be in our esteemed language to farewell our many deceased. I was there yesterday in the beautiful valley of Waikare, namely amidst the subtribe of Te Kapotai. There, the father of our colleague Willow-Jean Prime was being mourned and farewelled; his name was Barry. Thus it is appropriate to address respectful words to him today, he who has been returned to the womb of the earth, to lie beside his mother. So, my kinsman, my friend Barry, rest in peace. You will arrive at the resting place. Consequently, the spirits remain with the spirits; returning now to us, right around this House, to the living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI am happy to hear the M\u0101ori language being spoken in this House; this is M\u0101ori Language Week. Thus it is apt that we speak in the M\u0101ori language, to hear the depth and the breadth of the issues we are debating in the M\u0101ori language. That is a good thing. However, my sadness is the language of\u2014the week, there is only one time it is heard by most of the House. Those of us who know the M\u0101ori language, it is a great thing to speak, and at all possible opportunities, not just for one week. Therefore, this House is able to strengthen our skills in the M\u0101ori language so it can be heard at all times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EHowever, I see some burdens. I also hear some of the gossip from the Opposition, saying things which are derogatory, condescending, and belittling towards those of us who are speaking. What I have to say is that is not right, because the M\u0101ori language is the first language of this country. On the arrival of the ancestral canoes to New Zealand, the first language other than that of the birds and the cicadas was the M\u0101ori language. The M\u0101ori language is not the second language of this House, of this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ETherefore, the accusations of the Opposition that we turn to the M\u0101ori language to avoid the questions, to avoid the discussions of the House\u2014that is not correct, and it is belittling to apply that to the desire to speak in the M\u0101ori language in this House. It is fine for them to object to the substance of what is said but it is not right to object to the use of the M\u0101ori language within this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI am sad to hear an account from a certain past Minister of Treaty matters, criticising the amount of time I am spending on my Crown/M\u0101ori relations work, that responsibility of mine. According to him, he would need only five minutes to write about that topic. Thus he is an example of the disparagement by the Opposition towards M\u0101ori issues. It is only right for me to travel around the country at large to hear the needs and aspirations of the M\u0101ori world pertaining to this topic. That\u2019s why, to hear a previous Minister for Treaty matters saying that he could do that work, and do it in five minutes, that is belittling to the M\u0101ori world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAccordingly, this Government does not wish to repeat those mistakes of the Opposition. Our desire is that the indigenous people be honoured, to work together with them, to understand, to resolve the problems affecting the M\u0101ori world. We know that the M\u0101ori world is down and under in Government statistics, therefore our desire is to work, to elevate the M\u0101ori world to gain the same status in issues of national consequence as the status, the well-being, of the P\u0101keh\u0101 world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EConsequently, we are right to speak the language this week, but what about the following week, what about the week after that week? It is the right thing for us to do: to speak the M\u0101ori language at all times; to hear the depth, the breadth, the beauty of our treasure, the M\u0101ori language. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228bb5af8bed994b17ad424f3278c7479c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bb5af8bed994b17ad424f3278c7479c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E What a shambles the Government is in. What an absolute shambles the Government is in. Here we have them, on a day when they had called extraordinary hours for the sitting of the House\u2014a time when the House could\u2019ve sat between 9 o\u2019clock this morning and 1 o\u2019clock this afternoon to progress six bills that the Government had set down on the Order Paper. And what happened? Ministers responsible for bills failed to turn up to the House. Unbelievable. So an hour and a quarter before the House was scheduled to lift, the whole thing was shut down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI often say that the House in politics, the Parliament in politics, is a bit like the heart. Everyone knows that if their heart\u2019s not beating too well, they\u2019re not well. Well, the heart of this Parliament is not beating well, and this Government is in very bad shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EOne of the problems, quite clearly, and quite evidently demonstrated in the last two days in this House, is that the right honourable gentleman over there still hasn\u2019t stopped acting as Prime Minister. He has the veto on everything this Government does. We have an industrial relations law\u2014which, by the way, is appalling for employment prospects in New Zealand, appalling for anyone who\u2019s got an entrepreneurial spirit and might want to start a business. But anyway, it\u2019s been through Cabinet, it\u2019s been to the select committee, it\u2019s coming back to Parliament, and the right honourable gentleman says, \u201CUh-oh. We may have made a mistake. Pull on the brakes, we\u2019re no longer supporting it.\u201D And that\u2019s not just for this bill\u2014it goes on and on and on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I can\u2019t wait to see the news footage next week of the Prime Minister in New York, giving the grand speech to the General Assembly, talking about their ambitious plans for the relocation of Nauru refugees to New Zealand, and then qualifying it all by saying, \u201CBut only if Winston says we can.\u201D [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aab6d9c17fa4d878bed1dd96e274235\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think there are some members who would like an early shower. If I have\u2014[Interruption] I think that the shadow Deputy Leader of the House should lead by example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227171f55fc6fd48be837b761e0e28680c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member on his feet has been around long enough to know the appropriate way to refer to other members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8ca673d25e41b1a92ff2e4aa2303e8\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc4a2b5999164371a5ad4ee8e49c815a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Now, \u201Csir\u201D will be a supplementary if he likes, but he cannot call me Winston. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275fd4cb2ce1a4c0ba6ed40adc4e21b7b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, before the\u2014I\u2019d let it ride\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229feb4a0296354a3886ecb94145636a2c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, only\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab0a9c96538a48098ce4ae4bb1c188df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. The member who interjected during the point of order will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c372b690cc0b43ed9b8ffd0f785923bd\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b491a77801f4e109777d23c8ccb9156\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Loud enough so the House can hear him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9b82960344435caa565a022bef8f6c\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022611b2a3451b84471a9bef27a098f142f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, perhaps I should break my flow, as it has been broken, simply to say that I meant nothing pejorative in the use of the first name. I was simply referring to it in terms much like people refer to RNZ or BNZ or any of those other institutions that are so well embedded into our society. In fact, I\u2019m sure that at some point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233d90fa708f24ff68f62c27f9d80d407\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows that he does not refer to points of order that have been dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f860e26a82924aa59ddc7eedd05927a5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: All right\u2014so back to the shambolic Government and the utterly disgraceful mess that they\u2019re in. So we just had the speaker before me, the Hon Kelvin Davis, the Minister for Crown/M\u0101ori Relations, talking about the new institution that\u2019s being set up; a new department announced by the Prime Minister, with the well-known person T\u012Btewhai Harawira sitting next to her in the Cabinet room last week. There is a brand new central agency that is going to be able to have a view on every single bill. One problem\u2014one problem: when the Minister was asked last week \u201CWhat is the role of the Minister for Crown/M\u0101ori Relations?\u201D, he announced\u201410 months after taking the warrant, taking the salary, taking the car, taking the house, all the drama\u2014that very shortly there\u2019ll be an announcement about what he does. Now, if that\u2019s not shambolic, you tell me what is. Do you know why there\u2019s been no announcement? Because the right honourable gentleman hasn\u2019t decided what that role is just yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo there they\u2019ll be, at the UN, the two of them, side by side, holding hands, putting on the spectacle or the picture of a united Government, knowing full well that those hands are only locked by the shackle of the secret agreement that keeps getting referred to in the House but hasn\u2019t been made public, and, of course, the general display that the Government knows what it\u2019s doing. Well, I would ask a simple question: if the Government knows what it\u2019s doing, that\u2019s one thing, but if the Government doesn\u2019t know where to be to do what it has to do, as was the case this morning, how can anyone believe they know what they\u2019re doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnother example this week was the failure to turn up in the House by a Minister leading a bill on the Family and Wh\u0101nau Violence Legislation Bill, who twice failed to get to the House, leaving it to other Ministers, telling us that they don\u2019t really care about their policy. The virtue signalling is far better, and, frankly, look at the faces across the other side of the House. They are basking in their self-congratulations, at the fine words that they\u2019re all uttering, but assured that that doesn\u2019t make any difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228004fe52c1a644bd9920b9cb71f0eaea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228004fe52c1a644bd9920b9cb71f0eaea\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. So I\u2019ve heard that the world is coming to an end, that the sky is actually about to fall, or, if we are to really understate things, that this Government is about to destroy our economy with a Draconian retraction of employment rights, taking us right back to the 1970s, and that we\u2019re all going to be forced to wear flares and get pet rocks! This Government apparently is so extreme. I can\u2019t believe that this Government is not listening to the National Party and those businesses raising concerns about the destruction of their livelihoods and all of the jobs! Tea breaks for workers not in emergency services? Union access to worksites? Making it easier for people to join a collective contract? Improved ability to negotiate collectively? Removing the 90-day trial for businesses with over 20 staff? Goodness me! No wonder the sky is going to fall! Holy moly, this is out of control!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIf I sound slightly sarcastic, it might be because I am being. All this legislation does is reinstate some of the statutory requirements that existed before the last Government removed them\u2014ha, ha! This morning, to provide a bit of a balance to that narrative, I was watching, on RNZ, one of the suffrage documentaries by Kathleen Winter, sharing the experiences of some women working on the minimum wage in this country. They talked about working multiple jobs, struggling to pay the bills, seeing their kids for only a few hours a day and feeling as if they were being blamed personally when their kids got into trouble, even though they actually had no ability to be there for the kids when they needed them, because they were working three jobs just to have enough money to keep a roof over their heads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EOne woman talked about her brother dying and her jumping in the car to go to his tangi and running out of petrol and having to return home because she didn\u2019t have enough money, as a full-time worker, to be able to get to her own brother\u2019s funeral. That is the reality of thousands upon thousands of New Zealanders\u2019 lives in this country under the laws that that side of the House is so staunchly defending. What they are defending is the degradation of thousands of people in our country, and I\u2019ve got no truck with it. People who are saying that this legislation is extreme and that it\u2019s going to lose us jobs are just beating a drum that has created that inequality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI know most New Zealanders care about that inequality. They see the stories in the media. They see their neighbours, their friends, and their family members struggling, and they want something else. They want better for themselves and for their families. That is why they voted for a change of Government, because we can do better, but it means stepping out of the way that things have been done for the last 10 years. Increasing the minimum wage will help, but we also need to connect the dots around our employment legislation. We need to improve people\u2019s employment security and even up that imbalance between employers and their staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got too many examples of people not getting even their legal entitlements because their employer either doesn\u2019t know them or thinks no one is watching. Even the International Monetary Fund has said that unions and their access to workplaces is essential in addressing inequality. Reduced union power: increased inequality. It\u2019s a global pattern. It\u2019s a key thing that we need to address if we are serious about addressing inequality, and the Green Party is. We want to hear from workers, like we want to hear from all the voices on this side of the House working towards a solution, and we\u2019re pleased to support a Government that put this in the first 100-day work programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00221443b326d3d041be94d7550bdeb7d581\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221443b326d3d041be94d7550bdeb7d581\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Nine years in Opposition and almost 12 months in Government, and what have we seen from this Government in terms of justice reform? Zip\u2014nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EActually, that\u2019s not fair\u2014that\u2019s not fair. Let\u2019s think about the only thing that the Minister of Justice has tried to do, and that\u2019s repeal the three-strikes legislation. And how did that go for him? Well, he thought that he had agreement from this coalition Government, from his coalition partners, and he was all ready on the day to take the paper to Cabinet to have it approved and to go through Cabinet, and all of a sudden he heard the revving of a loud engine behind him. He turned around, and what was it? It was a bus. It was a big black bus with \u201CSend them a message\u201D on it. And behind the wheel was the Rt Hon Winston Peters. He was bearing down on him, cigarette out the corner of his mouth and, you know, a glass of whisky on the dash, and he had Clayton Mitchell and Darroch Ball and Fletcher Tabuteau standing behind him egging him on with their Dirty Dog sunglasses. And here he was, bearing down on poor Andrew Little. Where did he have to go? He had nowhere to go. What happened? Straight under the bus\u2014straight under the bus and over the top.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just put it to the Labour caucus, because I know for a fact that the Labour caucus\u2014Kris Faafoi especially\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1769dd6cc434c5ea2005fd38cfaceba\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Stop name dropping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a95d529cc744f3a1ec0e2db6b85ff5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Kris Faafoi especially is not happy about this. How do you think they feel having their justice Minister thrown under the bus, driven over the top of by their coalition partner? Imagine how we would feel as the National Party if that happened to our justice Minister. Oh no, that\u2019s right; it wouldn\u2019t happen, would it? And just as\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afaadaa616ee40a4a81737d35086debf\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: When are you starting a new party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3cf302687a447f7b7cae0ce6dbe10ae\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and just as Andrew Little\u2019s getting up and dusting himself off, and picking the asphalt out of his beard and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe046c41be940b6ae11c8a10ed6556a\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s the new party going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273687a7f626c47c9a00811e8744e0a56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. The Hon Kris Faafoi: interjections are meant to be rare, reasonable, and witty, and not draw the Speaker into them. The member failed on all three counts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afdb6716bb28413ea8d5820629d2bf0a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a bit like that in the Parliamentary Rugby Team changing sheds as well, but he always gives it a good effort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EHe\u2019s just dusted himself off. He\u2019s picked a bit of asphalt out. He\u2019s just thinking that he\u2019s got over having been put under the bus, and he turns around, and all of a sudden there\u2019s a big red bus. The big red bus drives straight over the top of him. Under he goes. And just as he\u2019s going under the grill, he looks up and a big tear wells up in his eye, because he sees the driver of the bus is the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern. She\u2019s sitting there behind the wheel and bang, over she goes\u2014boom! The reason for that is because the only other thing that he\u2019s done, other than try to repeal the three-strikes legislation, which failed miserably, is he decided to deliver a justice summit\u2014a justice summit that he told us was going to cost $700,000. I thought that was a bit excessive. I thought that was still $1,000 per participant, and that was a bit excessive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ba0480f2884fca8e7dab6de53ec8c5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: You had lunch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba8caf9b2ca54d0190b0bc2ff8fe559c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I had lunch? Who\u2019s saying that? Oh, the Hon Willie Jackson says I had lunch. Actually, let me correct you on that. I had a green tea, but I wish I had had some lunch now that I have found out that it was $2,500 a head to attend the justice summit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EMike Williams\u2014the great bastion of the Labour Party, Mike Williams\u2014wrote a column last week saying that my view on the justice reforms was disgusting because I\u2019m advocating for victims and I\u2019m saying that public safety should always be at the forefront of any justice reform that\u2019s done. And then he goes on to say, \u201CYou know what? Mark Mitchell wasn\u2019t even at the justice forum.\u201D Well, if he had just looked up, he would have seen that I led the p\u014Dwhiri with Andrew Little. And if he\u2019d actually been there, he would have realised that, actually, I did attend the justice forum. The problem was the opening of the justice forum, where the Minister Kelvin Davis got up and told Stuart Nash that he looked like Tom Cruise, and then Stuart Nash got up and told Kelvin Davis that he looked like George Clooney, and then poor old Andrew Little\u2014I don\u2019t know, Elmer Fudd or something like that. That was the opening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThen I was getting interviewed by Tova O\u2019Brien. And while I was getting interviewed, she said, \u201CWhat do you think?\u201D And I said, \u201CWell, I\u2019m really worried. There\u2019s no real victim representation here. It appears to be a bit of a talkfest.\u201D And then what happens? Anzac Wallace jumps up out of the crowd as I\u2019m being interviewed. And what does he say? What does he start shouting down on the main floor of the conference?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213902bf4e083459a9dd51e33442cefe4\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Utu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3c6f2ef263f4b8aa38378dd07bfd393\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CToo much talk\u201D. Yes, utu; that\u2019s right. Utu from Willie Jackson. He says, \u201CToo much talk. Too much talk and not enough action.\u201D And he summed it up perfectly. All we\u2019re seeing is too much talk and not enough action in a coalition Government that not once but twice has thrown their justice Minister under the bus. They had rooms there for counselling. They had a reflections wall; they had rooms there for counselling. The Minister actually, I think, has got post-traumatic stress disorder. He didn\u2019t turn up yesterday in the House for a very important bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221e2c0463c62548708a12b2f9a674a1ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e2c0463c62548708a12b2f9a674a1ad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. The Hon Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe8e3e11ac144205b06074c623e8ddca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe8e3e11ac144205b06074c623e8ddca\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Associate Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Tuatahi e tika ana ki te tautoko te kaupapa, Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori; e tika ana ki te whakanui i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo i ng\u0101 w\u0101 katoa. N\u014D reira, ki a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa. E tika ana kia huri ki te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 i t\u0113nei w\u0101 ki te whakam\u0101m\u0101 aku whakaaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Firstly, it is appropriate to support the initiative, M\u0101ori Language Week; it is right to celebrate our language at all times. Therefore, to you all, greetings, greetings to us all. It is appropriate to turn to the English language at this time to ease my thoughts.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI wanted to speak P\u0101keh\u0101 for the rest of my speech today to explain the M\u0101ori policy, the Reo M\u0101ori policy, which seems to be confused in the media and particularly from the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re very clear that we have a universal strategy. Labour\u2019s very clear: it\u2019s a universal strategy going forward that we want put in all the schools by 2025. Not compulsion\u2014I know we\u2019re getting all twisted and broken over the compulsion carry-on. Take it from me, I\u2019m someone who advocated down that track for 10 years and got into the most stupid idiotic debates on radio talkback about what\u2019s compulsory and what\u2019s not compulsory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThen you say, \u201CWell, you pay your taxes compulsorily. You stop at the red lights. You learn maths compulsorily.\u201D I\u2019m sick of it. I\u2019m sick of it going on for 10 years about whether it should be compulsory or not compulsory. If we all want a result in the end, we should all support the Labour Party policy, which is about getting that Reo, our Reo, into all the schools\u2014available in primary and intermediate; all our M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, Pacific Islanders kids talking\u2014by the year 2025. It\u2019s a fantastic policy, it\u2019s a terrific policy, and the Hon Nanaia Mahuta expressed it tremendously well on television last week and supported what our Prime Minister\u2019s been saying all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn this week of the Reo M\u0101ori, I think it\u2019s important to remember the fight for the Reo. The fight for the language was fought by mainly non - M\u0101ori language speakers. I worry sometimes as we\u2019re progressing that we forget the fight of Ng\u0101 Tamatoa, of my uncle Syd Jackson, of my auntie Hana Jackson, and of Marama Davidson\u2019s father, R\u0101wiri Paratene. They were all young radicals who fought against society and at times against our own\u2014at times against our own: all the M\u0101ori language speakers who thought they were too young and silly and stupid. But they put the challenges down to M\u0101ori, they put the challenges down to Government, and we are here where we are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI say to a lot of our young guns, never forget where the fight came from, because whilst we\u2019re fighting for the language, there are a lot of M\u0101ori who don\u2019t speak M\u0101ori. There are a lot of M\u0101ori who try, much like my uncle\u2014hopeless, you know; couldn\u2019t speak a word of M\u0101ori\u2014they got worse as they got older. They were absolute fighters for the kaupapa\u2014absolute fighters for the kaupapa\u2014and no less than anybody who is an expert in the language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI say to our matataua, I say to our young experts, don\u2019t you forget that. Don\u2019t you judge people on the quality of their language. You challenge them on the quality of their advocacy. We\u2019ve had a lot of our people\u2014they\u2019re fabulous at the back of the marae, they\u2019re great cooks, and they\u2019re great at different areas. They\u2019re no less than a lot of our young ones coming through. They\u2019re great advocates and role models for our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe have groups of M\u0101ori who are mataku ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori. They\u2019re actually speakers of M\u0101ori, but they are so nervous of making mistakes that they refuse to talk M\u0101ori. They don\u2019t go on Te Karere; they don\u2019t go on Te K\u0101ea. I say to our experts today, \u201CEncourage those groups of people.\u201D When I went to learn the language, when I started getting some fluency in the language in 1989, at Ngati Raukawa, they said to us, \u201CWhy do you come to learn this language?\u201D We waited and we thought, \u201CWell, we\u2019re not sure.\u201D And the response from our kaum\u0101tua was, \u201CIt\u2019s because of the fear of humiliation, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s because of the fear of humiliation that you go on to the marae and you can\u2019t talk, or they come to you and you can\u2019t karanga.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThat was the reality back in 1989, but we\u2019re in 2018 now, and our people should not be feeling humiliated because they can\u2019t speak the language. They should feel proud that they\u2019re M\u0101ori first and foremost, and, if they\u2019re not speaking the language and supporting the language, that should be main point. T\u0113nei te mihi ki a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[I acknowledge you all, greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8a72bee79c64ae5bc7cd2a205069db7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8a72bee79c64ae5bc7cd2a205069db7\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Ko t\u0113nei Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko te reo P\u0101keh\u0101 te reo tuarua ki au. Ahakoa he iti he pounamu Te Reo. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E[This is M\u0101ori Language Week. In my view, the P\u0101keh\u0101 language is second. However small the amount of M\u0101ori language, it is precious. Greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022736dbab1eba74c49ba14b0edef1fb27a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7a25abfcad4f58a8b272bf570760af\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that\u2014I think a thumbs up from across the House for my pronunciation. But I can\u2019t actually start this general debate without actually mentioning the fact that the gentleman who just sat down, Willie Jackson, actually vigorously\u2014vigorously opposed the Labour Party policies back in 2015\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226381d203dce64758a61d24a126022e78\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233dad42849e7407e9ac768d26d8e7377\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: 2014. I do, however, like his sentiments in term of having pride in their language, as someone who speaks Korean, my mother tongue, and I\u2019m very pleased that my parents actually kept up with the lessons throughout my childhood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWhat an amazing and utterly shambolic Government this is. I\u2019m reflecting on many things and I don\u2019t want to draw to the public\u2019s attention too much by repeating some of the things that were said last week\u2014I did not get an opportunity to speak in the snap debate. The honourable gentleman behind me, my dear friend Tim Macindoe, had the opportunity but I did not as I was at a meeting. I did not actually talk about the resignation, because the resignation came after the sacking of the Minister, the Hon Clare Curran, from the portfolios that she held for the shambolic ways that she actually managed herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIn terms of what she said, I just wanted to quote something from one of the speeches that she actually made, if I can find it. One of the things that she actually said was that \u201CMy priority\u201D\u2014and I\u2019m quoting\u2014\u201Cis that this will be the most open, most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had. We will do this in several ways,\u201D\u2014she actually said\u2014\u201Cincluding requiring proactive disclosure of some official information, \u2026 improving Government capability and performance in relation to the Official Information Act; and deepening the Government\u2019s commitment to the Open Government \u2026\u201D. That\u2019s just not true, is it, as we\u2019ve seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis particular Minister, who is no longer a Minister\u2014her time as a Minister is actually probably an example of what not to do as a Minister. It started back in December, when she had this secret meeting with a Radio New Zealand executive\u2014she was the head of news and head of content at Radio New Zealand. The Cabinet Manual actually states that when a Minister wants to have a meeting with someone like Carol Hirschfeld, she needs to remind Carol Hirschfeld that you need to tell\u2014not you, Mr Speaker. Carol Hirschfeld needed to get permission from her chief executive, or the board, or the chairperson. Carol Hirschfeld actually failed to do that, and, ultimately, that led to Carol Hirschfeld leaving RNZ. Perhaps the Prime Minister should\u2019ve sacked the Minister then, and then maybe the Prime Minister would not have this embarrassment of Clare Curran having to be sacked from two portfolios for not being open about her dealings with Derek Handley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EDerek Handley was another shambles. She actually claimed in her written question 19442\u2014that\u2019s my question to the Minister\u2014that her staff had access to all of her emails, and that if it was ministerial business or Government business, the staff will decide. Well, it seems like they didn\u2019t have access to the Minister\u2019s email addresses, because they didn\u2019t even know about the meeting that she had with Derek Handley. They never actually put down the fact that she had a meeting with Derek Handley when my colleague Brett Hudson asked the question of who she met with on a particular date. Derek Handley was actually left off the list, and the Minister, once again, had to correct her answer she gave wrongly. That\u2019s a second offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister should have actually known by the appalling performance in the House. And I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the case that she was inarticulate. I don\u2019t actually believe that Clare Curran is inarticulate, because I have worked with her over the 10 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91dd2ae97f54dad9b3afdb796fa1802\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Fifty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f6b07118a62473baf2e4bca46a5e1b4\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I know\u2014some people might say that. But I think the thing was she started answering a question that I gave her, \u201CWhat Government business did she do on her personal Gmail address?\u201D\u2014she started her answer by saying she did not, and then that played in her head over and over again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00229db61a2eaa9c46e79c07b98f7339a36a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db61a2eaa9c46e79c07b98f7339a36a\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKo te maunga Aoraki ka t\u0101rehua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKo te maunga Aoraki ka t\u0101rewa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKo te maunga o Aoraki ka t\u016B tonu mai m\u014D ake, ake, ake tonu atu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EE mihi ana ki te rangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EE mihi ana ki te whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EE mihi ana ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koutou i Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. He mea nui Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori kia kore ai t\u0101tou e wareware ki Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kia m\u014Dhio mai koutou, Te Whare, n\u0101 taku whaea, n\u0101 Whetu Tirikatene i waihanga te pire tuatahi m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori, te pire kia whakamanahia Te Reo M\u0101ori i raro i te ture kia rite ki te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. E t\u016B ake ahau ki te tautoko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o taku tuakana, a Willy, i ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e k\u014Dkirihia ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o mua, i k\u014Dkirihia te kaupapa o t\u014D t\u0101tou reo M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EEngari, i te rangi nei, e k\u012B ana te k\u014Drero he 20,000 anake ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata e m\u014Dhio ana ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko te k\u014Drero o Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori e kore e taea m\u0101 te M\u0101ori anake e whakarauora i Te Reo M\u0101ori, engari, m\u0101 te P\u0101keh\u0101 hei \u0101whina, e taea. N\u014D reira e M\u0101ori m\u0101, kaua e t\u016Bkino i \u014D t\u0101tou hoa P\u0101keh\u0101 o Tauiwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKua rima tau ahau e ako ana i Te Reo M\u0101ori. K\u0101hore i te mahi ng\u0101wari. E tinitini ana ng\u0101 tauiwi e ako ana i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo. He mea nui t\u0113n\u0101 ki ahau. Engari, e kore e kitea ng\u0101 kaiako M\u0101ori. N\u0101 wai te h\u0113? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIwa tau te roa o Te K\u0101wanatanga i raro i a N\u0101hinara, i te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, engari k\u0101hore he kiko m\u014D Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kei te mihi ahau ki te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki m\u014D t\u014D r\u0101tou kaha tautoko i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kei te mihi, kei te mihi, kei te mihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI runga o Pouaka Whakaata, kei te tautoko ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata i Te Reo M\u0101ori. I runga o irirangi o te motu kei te tautoko ng\u0101 kaimahi ki Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kua k\u014Drero te Pirimia. Kua k\u014Drero te Minita M\u0101ori. Kua k\u014Drero ng\u0101 mema M\u0101ori o t\u0113nei Whare. Ko te rapu me p\u0113hea e taea e t\u0101tou te whakatutuki i te moemoe\u0101 kia reo M\u0101ori ng\u0101 kura o te motu? Kua kore ng\u0101 kaiako M\u0101ori. Kua kore ng\u0101 kaiako e taea ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori. Koia t\u0113nei ko te rapu. Me kimi k\u0113 ki hea? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113tahi kaupapa nui kei runga i te t\u0113p\u016B i t\u0113nei w\u0101, e pai ana Te Reo M\u0101ori. E pai ana te iwi. He maha ng\u0101 iwi. Te hunga manene ka nui t\u014D r\u0101tou tautoko i Te Reo M\u0101ori. He iwi k\u014Drero reorua r\u0101tou. E hia k\u0113 ng\u0101 reo kei t\u0101w\u0101hi. K\u0101ore \u014D r\u0101tou m\u0101harahara m\u014D ng\u0101 reo o te tangata. He aroha n\u014D r\u0101tou ki t\u0113nei whenua o Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EKei te tautoko ng\u0101 kamupene. Kei te tautoko te irirangi o te motu. Kei te tautoko ng\u0101 kura. Ko te mea e t\u0101ria nei ko te m\u0101ia o te P\u0101remata\u2014ko te tautoko o ng\u0101 t\u014Drangap\u016B, ko te tautoko o ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B nei: ko te tautoko o N\u0101hinara, ko te tautoko o Aotearoa Tuatahi, ko te tautoko o te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa. Ko te tautoko o t\u0113nei Whare te mea e t\u0101ria mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, kua t\u0101roaroa t\u014Dku k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei w\u0101. Kua k\u014Drerohia k\u0113 ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. Ko te mea e t\u0101ria nei i t\u0113nei w\u0101 ko te whakatau o Te Whare P\u0101remata. N\u014D reira, \u0101piti hono r\u0101tou te wairua ki a r\u0101tou, \u0101piti t\u0101tou te hunga ora ki a t\u0101tou. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker. Greetings to the members of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EMt Cook, hidden in the mist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EMt Cook of great heights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EMt Cook who will stand for ever more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the sky.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI acknowledge one and all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EGreetings to you all during M\u0101ori Language Week. M\u0101ori Language Week is important, lest the M\u0101ori language become forgotten. To make those in the House aware, it was my aunt, Whetu Tirikatene, who developed the first M\u0101ori language bill, a bill that gave the M\u0101ori language equal status to the English language under the law. I stand to support what my brother Willy said about those in years past who drove the M\u0101ori language agenda forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EHowever, currently there are apparently only 20,000 people who know how to speak M\u0101ori. According to the M\u0101ori Language Commission, M\u0101ori cannot revive the language alone, but with P\u0101keh\u0101 help, we can. Therefore, to my fellow M\u0101ori, do not disparage our P\u0101keh\u0101 friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI have been learning the language for five years. It is not easy. There are many P\u0101keh\u0101 who are learning our language. That is important to me. However, M\u0101ori teachers are difficult to come by. Who is at fault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe had nine years of Government under National and the M\u0101ori Party and there was nothing of substance for the M\u0101ori language. I would like to acknowledge the Green Party for their strong support of the M\u0101ori language. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOn television, people support the M\u0101ori language. On radio throughout the country, staff support the M\u0101ori language. The Prime Minister has talked about it. The Minister for M\u0101ori Development has talked about it. The M\u0101ori members of this House have talked about it. The real question is, how we can achieve the dream of M\u0101ori language in schools throughout the country? There aren\u2019t any M\u0101ori teachers. There aren\u2019t any M\u0101ori teachers. There are no more teachers who can speak M\u0101ori. This is what we are looking for. Where can we find them? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOne big issue on the table at the moment\u2014the M\u0101ori language is flourishing. We are doing well. There are many different tribes, including immigrants, who strongly support the M\u0101ori language. They are bilingual. There are countless languages overseas. They don\u2019t worry about how many languages a person speaks. They love New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBusiness shows support. Radio throughout the country supports it. Schools support it. All that we need now is courage from Parliament\u2014support from the politicians, support from these political parties: National support, New Zealand First support, and Labour support. It is the support of this House that is wanting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ETherefore, I\u2019ve spoken for long enough at this time. What needs to be said has been said. What we need now is the support of this Parliament. Therefore, to those who have passed on and to those of us amongst the living, thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00225d1c7387e77b41939922f77b3a89f237\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d1c7387e77b41939922f77b3a89f237\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, what a sad and sorry saga it\u2019s been over the last few weeks for the Government. And it is for the Government, because, although the main actor on stage has been former Minister Ms Clare Curran, it\u2019s actually a symbol. It\u2019s symbolic of the absolute disgrace and mess that this Government is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAnd how did it begin? Well, it began just after they took office with arrogance and hubris. I could, I know, be referring to basically anyone on that side of the House, but I\u2019m actually referring to then Minister Clare Curran, who was determined that the rules and the expectations around ministerial behaviour should not have to apply to her. So what does she do? She goes out and sets up a secret meeting with a very senior member of the Public Service, and a very well respected broadcaster\u2014a sneaky little meeting on the side to achieve who knows what. What we do know is it was found out about, and she then spent quite some time trying to dissemble and dance on the head of a pin as to what it was really about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWhat it ended up at was Carol Hirschfeld got the sack. Really, the person who needed to get the sack at that point in time was then Minister Curran. It would have been the right thing to do, and, as events have transpired, it would have been the caring thing for the Prime Minister to have done. But, unfortunately, we have a weak leader in the Prime Minister\u2014she didn\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EFast forward just a few short weeks from that saga, and one would have expected that Minister Curran would have learnt from that episode and wouldn\u2019t have repeated it. Instead, what we find out is that in the second round of recruitment\u2014or just before the second round of recruitment\u2014for the Chief Technology Officer, Ms Curran has done it again\u2014a serial offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAfter a Twitter conversation with Mr Derek Handley, she rushes to her private Gmail account. She initiates an email conversation, which leads to a meeting. She doesn\u2019t acknowledge it. It\u2019s not in her calendar. It\u2019s only in a little bit of hygiene\u2014if we believe media reports\u2014that, because the Government had decided to appoint Mr Handley to the role, they discover that, actually, there was a meeting and it wasn\u2019t in her calendar, and\u2014oops\u2014someone\u2019s asked about it, therefore they will find out that it was hidden. Using a personal email account, I think, is enough evidence for the public at large to say that it was deliberately hidden. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo, finally, some action is taken. The Prime Minister strips a couple of portfolios from Ms Curran, but she\u2019s in the spotlight\u2014the glaring spotlight\u2014because members on this side know that if she\u2019s done it once, she\u2019s done it twice, she\u2019s done it a number of times. So the maelstrom of activity from the Opposition in this Chamber and through written questions and Official Information Act (OIA) requests\u2014I can only imagine the pressure that Ms Curran was feeling at the time. Ultimately, that was her downfall, because, with those OIA requests that my colleague Melissa Lee and I had submitted, those emails, those additional communications, were going to come out. We can say with some confidence that there were further emails because just yesterday Ms Curran herself was quoted and reported as saying there might be more emails between her and Mr Handley. Given her previous actions, \u201Cmight be more emails\u201D is about the same as saying the sun might rise in the east tomorrow morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EUltimately, it was her hubris and arrogance that was her undoing. She proved what is known as the Peter Principle\u2014that people will rise to the level of their incompetence. And she certainly did. The Peter Principle, however, is not to be confused with the \u201CPeters principle\u201D. The \u201CPeters principle\u201D is where a person acts like they actually have the job of their immediate superior so that eventually the public believe that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo, look, in all this is a failing of leadership and, actually, uncaring leadership. With all the pressure that Ms Curran was under, a caring and thoughtful leader\u2014Prime Minister\u2014would have relieved that burden from her early in the piece. Instead, she made her suffer through a week to 10 days of further intense pressure\u2014pressure that, ultimately, led to her downfall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re left with a Government, still, that claims that it\u2019s going to be the most open and most transparent that New Zealand has ever had, and yet, aside from those secret meetings, we also have a coalition document annex that they won\u2019t show and an example of a local government OIA on the Three Waters strategy where every page\u2014every page\u2014was redacted. If that\u2019s their view of an open and transparent Government, we\u2019re in big trouble. But this is just stage one. This is just the end of the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022817cf2c6ed1042d1bf17a2c72ad64607\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022817cf2c6ed1042d1bf17a2c72ad64607\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E E t\u016B ake ana au i t\u0113nei wiki o t\u014D m\u0101tou reo rangatira whakamana i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei reo. Heoi, kei te wiriwiri au i roto i \u014Dku nei h\u016B. He tino p\u0113pi noa iho ahau i roto i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei reo, heoi an\u014D, ko t\u0113nei te wiki ki te karawhiua, ki te wh\u0101ia te ara o t\u014D t\u0101tou nei reo. Heoi an\u014D, kei konei ahau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EKei te tautoko au te k\u014Drero o t\u0113nei hoa, t\u0113nei Minita, te H\u014Dnore Kelvin Davis. Ka huri atu au, \u014Dku whakaaro ki te tuahine, ki te tuakana, a Willow-Jean i t\u0113nei w\u0101 taumaha, otir\u0101 ki t\u014Dna k\u0101inga; ko Season-Mary, taku tino hoa mai i te mahi o te ture, ki a r\u0101ua m\u0101m\u0101 ko Adrienne, \u0101, Nandy. I t\u0113nei w\u0101 taumaha, tino taumaha ki a r\u0101tou, heoi an\u014D, kei a koe te p\u0101p\u0101, e Barry, e takoto, moe mai r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ka huri ahau i t\u0113nei taupatupatu he kaupapa tino whakahirahira ki ahau ki te whakamana ng\u0101 kui m\u0101, ng\u0101 koroua m\u0101, i ng\u0101 w\u0101 i mua i te whakarauoratanga a t\u014D t\u0101tou nei reo, i ng\u0101 kura, i ng\u0101 k\u014Dhanga reo, i ng\u0101 marae, i ng\u0101 w\u0101hi katoa, otira kei muri i t\u0113nei Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EKei te haramai ng\u0101 iwi mai i ng\u0101 hap\u016B, mai i ng\u0101 iwi katoa ki te haere ki t\u0113nei Whare ki te p\u0101tai atu ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei P\u0101remata ki te kite a r\u0101tou reo, ki te whakamana i te ture a m\u0101tou nei reo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ka titiro atu ki ng\u0101 hua o \u0101 r\u0101tou nei mahi, \u0101, kua kite au i taku tam\u0101hine, k\u014Dtahi tau ia, ko Hiwa-i-te-Rangi. I roto i tana haerenga i t\u0113nei ao kei te whakakoa mai, kei te whakapu\u0101wai, kei te h\u012Bkoi tonu i ng\u0101 reo e rua, te reo M\u0101ori me te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. \u0100 koin\u0101 te mahi o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata tino maha kua haere i mua i te whawhai m\u014D t\u0113nei take o t\u014D t\u0101tou reo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EKei te titiro ki ng\u0101 kura. Tino maha ng\u0101 tamariki kei roto i ng\u0101 kura. Kei te titiro ki ng\u0101 taupatupatu o te Manu K\u014Drero, i ng\u0101 kura kei roto i Aotearoa. Tino maha ng\u0101 tamariki, tino maha ng\u0101 rangatahi, ng\u0101 taiohi kei te haere mai ki ng\u0101 kura katoa. E tino kaha r\u0101tou i t\u0101 m\u0101tou nei reo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, ka tahuri au ki ng\u0101 p\u016Bwaha, ki ng\u0101 p\u016Bwhaikaha i te reo mai r\u0101 an\u014D, \u0101, n\u0101 r\u0101tou te reo i manaaki, i tiaki hei taonga tuku iho ki a Ng\u0101i T\u0101tou o Aotearoa wh\u0101nui. Heoi an\u014D, ko wai \u0113nei rangatira? K\u0101ore e \u0101rikarika ng\u0101 amorangi e t\u016B i Te Reo i roto i ng\u0101 tau kua tuhia ki te rae o m\u0101tou te hunga ako. Engari, e tika me mihi mamona ki a r\u0101tou e whakahua i te reo i te kura i ng\u0101 tau o mua, ahakoa, he kino, he pai ake, \u0101, ki a r\u0101tou e whawhai kia t\u016B Te Reo M\u0101ori hei reo \u014Dkawa o Aotearoa, ki ng\u0101 kuia, ng\u0101 koroua r\u0101tou i kaha whakatinana i \u0101 m\u0101tou tikanga i runga i ng\u0101 marae hei tauira, kei ng\u0101 kairaho, kaiako i ng\u0101 kura katoa. He aha te kai o \u0113nei rangatira. He k\u014Drero, he k\u014Drero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ki t\u0113nei Whare, ki te whakamana ko t\u0101ku nei reo, kei a koe M\u0101rama, t\u0113nei te mihi n\u014D reira kei a koe e te M\u0101na Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E[I stand today during this week to celebrate and acknowledge our beautiful language. However, I am shaking in my shoes. I am still a baby within our language, however, this is the week to let it fly, to follow the path of our language, so here I am.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI support the words of this friend, of this Minister, the Hon Kelvin Davis. I turn my thoughts to the sister Willow-Jean and her household during this difficult time; Season-Mary, my good friend from my legal work, through to their mother, Adrienne, to Nandy. It is a very difficult time for them, and I say to you, sir, Barry, may you rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI turn the focus of my debate to a subject that is very important to me, to pay respect to the elderly women and elderly men who supported the language before the move to revitalisation, at schools, at pre-school, on marae, everywhere, behind this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETribes and subtribes from throughout come here to this House to ask questions of the members of this Parliament to see their language, to support the law for our language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIf we look at the fruits of their work, I think of my daughter; she is one year old, her name is Hiwa-i-te-Rangi. In her experiences of the world she smiles, she grows, she walks with two languages, the M\u0101ori language and the English language. That is a result of the work of the many who came before us who fought for our language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI look at schools. There are many children in school. I look at the debates at Manu K\u014Drero in schools throughout the country. There are many children, many teenagers, many young people who come from schools throughout. They are very strong exponents of our language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI now turn to the language stalwarts from the years gone by, they who protected the language, who fostered the language as a treasure for wider New Zealand. So who are these stalwarts? The leaders who stood proud for the language are numerous, but they are inscribed in the memories of us, their students. However, it is only right to acknowledge those who used the language at school in the earlier years\u2014despite the difficulty, it was good\u2014and to those who fight for official recognition of the M\u0101ori language, to the elderly women, to the elderly men who embodied our customs on the marae to set an example, to the teachers of all schools. What is the nourishment of these leaders? It is discourse, it is discourse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ETherefore, to this House, to support my language, Marama, I acknowledge you, thank you, Mr Speaker, thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u00229c637cdc9f7c417bb970a640a4126c8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c637cdc9f7c417bb970a640a4126c8a\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. You know, in Parliament we often hear the term \u201Cthe devil\u2019s in the detail\u201D, and what that really means is that talk\u2019s cheap, it\u2019s difficult to get things done unless you pay attention to process, and it\u2019s essential if we want to get good outcomes and good results. That\u2019s why I\u2019m so shocked, surprised, disappointed, and actually more than a little angry that the new Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration has neglected her responsibilities in setting the work programme for the entities that she\u2019s responsible for in Christchurch. The reason why this is so shocking and, frankly, almost unbelievable is that the Minister has talked long and hard and loudly about making a difference\u2014and I do not doubt her sincerity\u2014but she hasn\u2019t bothered to put in writing any changes to the expectations of organisations that she is responsible for are working to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo let me explain that a little bit. A letter of expectation is the way that a Minister can guide, direct, manage, and activate the organisations that they are responsible for. It\u2019s one of the most important levers that they have. The Statutory Crown Entities: A Guide for Ministers states that setting expectations is the first step in setting the strategic direction and annual performance of Crown entities. That\u2019s the Minister\u2019s prime job: setting strategic direction, and making sure that we get a good performance and that we get the outcomes that the people of New Zealand need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EWhen the Hon Megan Woods became Minister, she was determined to see more momentum in the rebuild of Christchurch, and I absolutely support that. We all want to see more momentum, and when National was the Government, we worked really hard to do that. But she also said, \u201CYou can\u2019t keep on doing the same thing and, magically, expect a different outcome.\u201D, and that\u2019s the surprise. After 11 months in the job, that\u2019s exactly what she\u2019s doing, because \u014Ct\u0101karo and Southern Response are still working to the letters of expectation\u2014because they haven\u2019t had a new one\u2014that were put down by the previous Minister, the Hon Gerry Brownlee. So, with no attempt to change those expectations, how can she expect different outcomes? Do you think it\u2019s by magic, perhaps, or maybe perhaps by ESP or mind-reading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENow, having no letters of expectation adds another problem to \u014Ct\u0101karo and Southern Response. They are in a compromised position because in response to the Minister\u2019s letter of expectation, Crown entities are required by law to provide an annual statement of performance expectations, and that\u2019s so the public can see what the Minister has asked and they can see how those organisations are responding to that and there\u2019s also transparency and accountability to the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThe real problem we have here is that without the Minister\u2019s letters of expectation, \u014Ct\u0101karo and Southern Response don\u2019t know what they\u2019re supposed to do, so they can\u2019t write a statement of performance expectation and, therefore, they\u2019re in breach of the law. It\u2019s a total shambles\u2014no transparency, millions of dollars are being spent without any formal oversight or accountability\u2014and I think it\u2019s absolutely symptomatic of what we\u2019re seeing from this Government every day. They\u2019re ill-prepared, inexperienced, distracted, and totally chaotic. It\u2019s everything that we don\u2019t want to see in a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s criminal that the neglect of this Minister is slowing down the progress in Christchurch. I think it\u2019s absolutely not good enough for the people of Christchurch or the people of Canterbury. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002251087a09772e4117aaa1a9f66e608b02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251087a09772e4117aaa1a9f66e608b02\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN (Labour): \u003C/span\u003EKo Ranginui kei runga, ko Papat\u016B\u0101nuku kei raro, ko ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kei waenganui, tihei mauri ora. Ko te mihi tuatahi ki te Atua, n\u0101na nei ng\u0101 mea katoa. Ko te mihi tuarua ki Te Whare e t\u016B nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. E ng\u0101 mate, r\u0101tou m\u0101 kua whet\u016Brangitia, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ET\u0101tou ng\u0101 kanohi ora, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ki ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EE t\u016B ana ki te tautoko i t\u0113nei taupatupatu i roto i te \u0101huatanga o te w\u0101, ar\u0101, Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko te kaupapa o t\u0113nei wiki, \u201CKia kaha Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u201D Ka m\u014Dhio au, ehara au i te mea pai rawa atu ki te t\u016B ki te k\u014Drero kaha ki Te Reo M\u0101ori, engari ko t\u0113nei t\u014Dku whakaaro: me whakam\u0101tauria; kia kore e taea i te tuatahi, whakakaha, whakakaha, whakakaha an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EKei hea ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113r\u0101 taha o Te Whare ka taea te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori i \u0113nei r\u0101? Karekau. Taihoa, arohaina mai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe Melissa Lee m\u014D t\u014D mihi, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EKo te t\u016Bmanako o t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga ki te whakanui i te r\u014Dp\u016B kia taea ai ki te k\u014Drero i Te Reo M\u0101ori ar\u0101 ki te whakamana i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ko te tino hiahia o Te Pirimia he miriona ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kei te k\u014Drero i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo rangatira a tau e 2040. Pai atu t\u0113r\u0101 ki a au. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 mea pai m\u014Dku m\u014D te haerenga mai ki t\u0113nei Whare, ki t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata, ko te haerenga mai ki t\u0113tahi w\u0101hi e taea ai e au te whakapakari i t\u014Dku reo. K\u0101ore he k\u0101inga m\u014Dku e k\u014Drerohia ai Te Reo M\u0101ori i te huhua o te w\u0101. K\u0101ore he marae, e hoki atu ai au e k\u014Drerohia ai te M\u0101ori i te huhua o te w\u0101. I ng\u0101 w\u0101 o mua ko Te Whakaata M\u0101ori me Te Reo irirangi t\u0101ku i whakarongo ai i te m\u0101takitaki i Te Reo M\u0101ori. K\u0101ore r\u0101tou i te whakautu mai i \u0113tahi w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EKo taku tino waimarie ki te whiwhi i t\u0113tahi r\u014Dp\u016B m\u014D ng\u0101 mema P\u0101remata hou. Ko \u0113tahi o r\u0101tou i p\u0113nei te pakeke i a au he matatau ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori. K\u0101tahi an\u014D au ka whiwhi w\u0101 kia kaha ai te p\u0101tai, \u201CHe aha te tikanga o t\u0113nei? He aha te take o t\u0113r\u0101? Me p\u0113hea te whakahua o t\u0113nei?\u201D He mihi aroha ki \u014Dku hoa P\u0101remata m\u014D \u014D t\u0101tou m\u014Dhiotanga m\u014D \u014D t\u0101tou manawanui hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMehemea he maha k\u0113 atu ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata p\u0101taitai, \u0101 ka maha noa atu ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kaha ki te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori. Ko t\u014Dku t\u016Bmanako \u0101p\u014Dp\u014D m\u014D Aotearoa ko t\u014Dku kaha ki te haere ki te toa hokomaha t\u0113r\u0101 ranei te haere o aku tamariki ki te kura e kaha ana te k\u014Drero M\u0101ori, \u0101 ki te whiwhi whakautu i roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori hoki. Ko te mea tino pai ki a au ko te ako i Te Reo M\u0101ori, te homai tirohanga, ahakoa he iti, ki roto i te ao M\u0101ori. Ko t\u014Dku whakaponongia pai m\u014D ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa o Aotearoa t\u0113nei ko te mahi m\u0101 r\u0101tou. N\u014D reira kia kaha Te Reo M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EE Te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, huihui mai t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E[Ranginui abides above, Papat\u016B\u0101nuku below and mankind is between them, let there be life. I pay first respects to God, to whom all things belong. Secondly, I acknowledge the House which stands here, greetings to you. To those who have passed beyond this realm, farewell, farewell, farewell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELet us now turn to the living world. I acknowledge you, Mr Speaker. Greetings to the members of this House of Parliament. Greetings to one and all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI stand to support this debate as per the present focus, which is M\u0101ori Language Week. The theme for this week is \u201CLet\u2019s make M\u0101ori language strong.\u201D I realise that I am not the best example to demonstrate strong M\u0101ori language, but what I think is this: we must try; if at first we don\u2019t succeed, let\u2019s strengthen more and more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhere are the members on that side of the House who are currently able to speak M\u0101ori? There are none. Wait, sorry, I acknowledge you Melissa Lee, for your greeting, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt is the hope of this Government that we increase the number of able M\u0101ori speakers, thereby honouring the M\u0101ori language. The Prime Minister would like there to be a million people who can speak our M\u0101ori language by the year 2040. That is better to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the good things for me during my journey to this House, this House of Parliament, is that I came to a place where I am able to develop my language. I don\u2019t have a home where M\u0101ori is spoken most of the time. I don\u2019t have a marae to go back to where M\u0101ori is spoken most of the time. I used to have to rely on M\u0101ori Television and iwi radio to see and hear the M\u0101ori language. Sometimes they didn\u2019t reply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI am indeed fortunate to have a group for new members of Parliament. Some of them are my age and fluent in M\u0101ori. I have just plucked up the courage to ask, \u201CWhat does this mean? What is that used for? How do I pronounce this?\u201D I thank my parliamentary colleagues for our knowledge and for our patience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf more people would ask, there would be more M\u0101ori speakers. My hope for New Zealand in the future is that I will be able to go to the supermarket or my children will be able to go to school being able to speak M\u0101ori and to receive a reply in M\u0101ori, as well. What I would really like is to learn M\u0101ori, which would give me a glimpse, however small, in to the M\u0101ori world. It is my fervent belief for all New Zealanders. Therefore, let\u2019s make M\u0101ori strong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMembers of this House, greetings to you all who are assembled here.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e07bdb68f3cd489089004502c8a2fd19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e07bdb68f3cd489089004502c8a2fd19\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa i roto i t\u0113nei Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. Me te tautoko hoki i t\u0113nei tuahine-\u0101-t\u014Drangap\u016B \u0101ku e kaha nei ki te whakahuahua i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo M\u0101ori i roto i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare i t\u0113nei r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Greetings one and all during M\u0101ori Language Week. I would like to acknowledge my sister-in-politics who spoke our M\u0101ori language in our House today.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want to again acknowledge the efforts of the parliamentary community to use our language, to naturalise it, to normalise it, and to strip it of its cringe factor so that people will feel more comfortable giving it a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI stand in this debate to address a matter that is a regular feature of how I discharge my functions and obligations. From time to time, I\u2019m challenged as to whether or not the fiscal decisions that are made have been made with the necessary probity, and whether I am a very good steward. I think that\u2019s a fair enough challenge: that the face of the Provincial Growth Fund needs to be able to withstand attacks from time to time, and criticism, in terms of stewardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, I have visited my ire upon Fonterra, and I would say that Fonterra has a new CEO. They\u2019ve lost both their CEO and their chair in recent times, and the CEO needs to be given an opportunity to help correct the trajectory of the waka. He\u2019s a younger man. There are big challenges in Fonterra. No doubt there are big challenges because there are large numbers of people that are going to have to curb their ways or be invited to move on in order for this powerful company to sustain itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s one thing that I will not tolerate. I will not tolerate anyone saying the following things about my good self: that my intervention in the Fonterra issues, according to Mr Mark Townshend, a former director of Fonterra, was driven by my donations. That is not only malignant; that is grossly untrue, and I say to Mr Townshend, a large shareholder at the Fonterra company: if you want to come out into the public and doubt the integrity of our party, sure. Mr Townshend and his ilk may think that our small party, New Zealand First, is a rinky-dink outfit, but you, sir, are out of line. You are casting aspersions on the donors that I have listed. You are doubting the integrity of me and my party as we participate in the Dairy Industry Restructuring Act review, and that remark of yours cannot go unanswered. I say to you: go back to Chile and redeem your reputation over there, where New Zealand\u2019s reputation for being strong on animal rights failed under your stewardship. I say to you, sir: do not direct your ire at the ability of New Zealand First to continue to be critics and supporters of various options for improving Fonterra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, Fonterra is an important entity, but no one in Fonterra is bigger than Parliament. No one in Fonterra is bigger than the law. So I say to those directors that are signing up to take on directorial duties, as I said to the recently departed chairman of that organisation, keep your nose out of NZ First politics. Keep your nose out of politics, out of this Parliament, because Fonterra is a creation of the law, and we as legislators are utterly entitled to reflect perspectives and views. I am not going to remain silent whilst one of New Zealand\u2019s most wealthy dairy farmers believes he can blithely go around and darken my good name and expect to continuing to ride around on a helicopter or fly all over the world and survey his dairy empire whilst imagining that those remarks, designed to diminish my integrity and status, and the ability of our party to speak fearlessly, go unanswered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, I know the man is a grandee of the National Party. I don\u2019t care whether he\u2019s donated to any member of the National Party. My approach is very candid, my approach is very lucid, and it\u2019s very transparent, but I give fair warning to any new director or old director who does that again: you will feel the entire wrath of our party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223762e0fd9c545d3a59e5e09ae782b89\u0022\u003EState Sector and Crown Entities Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bddd1000a5a84835b8208c971aeea7d0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a20c7861836416dab6a6f5ce61d33d1\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Crown Entities Act 2004\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022188279b89d1646af984e85760f1b0e27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022188279b89d1646af984e85760f1b0e27\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to take a call on Part 1 of the amendments proposed by the Minister in respect of the Crown Entities Act 2004. It matters because the performance of Government in so many of our Crown entities depends on the strong leadership and the skills of the chief executives that are appointed. Now, for a large number of those Crown entities, Government is responsible for the appointment of the board, and the board is then responsible for the appointment of the chief executive, their terms of employment, and ensuring their performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe question for Parliament this afternoon in Part 1 of this bill is how far the Government, through the Minister of State Services and particularly the State Services Commissioner, is able to further interfere in the processes of that Crown entity. The question that I have for the Minister in the chair, Chris Hipkins, is how far he expects the provisions that are provided in this bill to go. The reason it matters is that there can easily be a culture of envy that gets in the way of getting the best performance for New Zealand out of its Crown entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI had the unfortunate ministerial experience of being appointed the Minister for ACC when it had lost over $4 billion in the preceding year. That entity is now in good shape and has a net balance sheet of over $20 billion. Every member of Parliament and every New Zealander has a huge interest in seeing that a Crown entity like ACC is well managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe question that I\u2019ve got for the Minister in the chair, with the new provisions that are provided in clause 4, is how far does he expect the State Services Commissioner to go? In my view, while we might save, maybe, $100,000 a year on the salaries or performance payments that might be made to a chief executive of an organisation\u2014like the super fund or ACC or one of our other very large entities, like Housing New Zealand\u2014with the billions of dollars of assets that those organisations run, you would only need a 100th of a percent change in their performance for it to actually end up as a negative net balance of Government outcome. So I think it would be very helpful, with the new powers being provided to the chief executive, for the Minister in the chair to give the Parliament a greater degree of direction about how far we intend the State Services Commissioner to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased and I compliment my colleague, Brett Hudson, the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee that took on board some of the concerns about the State Services Commission\u2019s powers and provided some restraint on interference in that process by requiring a set of conditions to be set down in new section 117(2AA) about the sorts of factors that the chief executive would need to take into account\u2014things like the legal, the commercial, and the operational context of the entity; what sort of information the board had; what commercial rates of pay would be appropriate; what the Government\u2019s expectations are; and what the market information is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo while I think the select committee has taken a step forward, it\u2019s not gone as far as National would prefer. We would actually want a statutory criterion that is judicially reviewable so that the State Services Commission is not driven by some sort of political motive of a drive to the bottom but really is interested in the best appointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would, in closing, just make reference to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE): one of New Zealand\u2019s largest entities in the State department. We, as Government, tried to secure a private sector person for that role and there was actually little interest with the rates. So if we are to get first-class people to be able to lead these major sector organisations, we do need to ensure that we are offering terms and conditions of employment that will deliver the quality of the public sector that we want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo our own Government\u2019s experience around the appointment of the chief executive of MBIE was actually quite telling. We thought that by having a very large economic development ministry that covers a very large range of electricity, immigration, labour laws, and building laws, we would be able to attract a candidate from the private sector who may be interested and apply some of that expertise to a major Government agency of that sort. Our experience was actually only receiving applicants from the public sector. I want to express full confidence in the appointment of the chief executive that was made for that agency, but it\u2019s a reminder of the risks of what we\u2019re doing in Part 1 of this bill in undermining our capacity to be able to get the very best person possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe further part that I would want to question the Minister in the chair on is that National members do have some concerns about some of the recent changes that have been made to chief executives\u2019 employment. That is, there was an at-risk component of chief executives\u2019 pay that this Government has decided to automatically provide for them. So there is no longer an at-risk component for chief executives who lead organisations that are clearly failing, and the removal of any sort of performance payment for those chief executives and simultaneously providing every chief executive with a week\u2019s holiday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThose issues are not specific to Part 1 of this bill, but I\u2019d be very interested in getting an indication from the Minister in the chair\u2014if you\u2019ve got a board or an organisation like the super fund or you\u2019ve got a board of an organisation like ACC that wants to include quite specific requirements in the performance of the chief executive, maybe for an organisation like ACC it\u2019s about rehabilitation rates, a really important factor for that organisation, or whether the board of the super fund quite specifically provides performance requirements for the head of that super fund, managing nearly $30 billion of public money\u2014whether the provisions that are being provided to the State Services Commissioner cut across the capacity for those significant Crown entities to be able to provide the very best of incentives for those organisations to perform?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I would want to make in respect of Part 1 of this bill is to get some clarity from the Minister as to how different the practice is intended to be following the passage of this bill, which National is supporting, around those new Crown entities that have come under these powers. In other words, there are Government State departments and others right now of which the State Services Commissioner, effectively, has a veto over the terms and conditions of their employment. So what I\u2019d be really keen to get an indication from the Minister on is, with the passage of this part of this bill, is the intention to simply extend the practice that currently exists over a range of Government agencies and Crown entities? Is the intention to simply extend that to all Crown entities, or are these provisions, in fact, going to be used to up the ante and for the State Services Commissioner to have their fingers deeper into the operational elements of these sorts of Crown organisations that Parliament and Government entrust to those boards? Those matters are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to stress to the House that across these Crown entities we are talking about north of $100 billion worth of Government assets. We\u2019re talking about Crown entities that manage over $15 billion a year in public funds. The way in which we structure those organisations, and the degree to which they are autonomous, and the degree to which they are constrained by these extra powers of the State Services Commissioner deeply matter to New Zealand, how we do as a country, and how well our public services do. National is of a view that we want a connected Public Service, but we also want an accountable Public Service. That is, we don\u2019t want to go back to the gliding-on days\u2014so well illustrated with the, sort of, Yes Minister approach to Government\u2014where we have an amorphous, massive Public Service where nobody is accountable for anything. So while we\u2019re happy to have some extension of these State services powers, it\u2019s absolutely critical that chief executives are accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022576b6f62841d46899665463784330f10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022576b6f62841d46899665463784330f10\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In the second reading speech this morning, I did point out that while we have reached a consensus in the select committee on this bill proceeding and the recommendations back to the House, there were some areas where the National Party members wanted to see different provisions in the bill, and they are in Part 1. As we move to this, I have some questions for the Minister. Particularly, they\u2019re around the State Services Commissioner\u2019s ability to direct, in effect, the boards around the terms and conditions of chief executives\u2019 pay and conditions. For instance, subsection (2AA)\u2014which clause 4 puts into section 117 of Crown Entities Act\u2014states: \u201CWhen considering the terms and conditions of a chief executive, the State Services Commissioner must have regard to the following\u201D, and it is that very phrase that we expressed concern to officials about in the Governance and Administration Committee, because, in practical terms, what does \u201Cmust have regard\u201D mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOur argument to them was that in respect of all the words that could be used or the structures that could be used, \u201Cmust have regard\u201D is a much lower threshold than some others, because it is not required to substantiate a level of evidence to have achieved X\u2014a threshold, if you will. It is simply\u2014well, in English, at least\u2014having to show in some minor way that you\u2019ve had regard to something. So I would like to hear from the Minister, particularly as it is his policy, what his expectations on the State Services Commissioner are and how \u201Cmust have regard to\u201D will be evidenced in reality and, indeed, in the documentation the commissioner will have to provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIn terms of those elements that the commissioner must have regard to, I don\u2019t have any particular argument to make with the criteria that are there. They are the things I think that we would expect that the commissioner should have to take into consideration. What is absent is any indication of the weighting of any of those particular conditions. So, on face value, does that mean that each of them is of an identical importance to the other? If that were not to be the case, either in law or in practice, that creates some level of potential uncertainty, certainly, at least, in reviewing legislation, because, of course, one of the elements is Government expectations. We appreciate that a Government\u2019s expectations for CEOs of Crown entities are very important, but equally so is information provided by the board with respect to the skills and abilities of the candidate, or the performance of the existing chief executive and the nature of the commercial business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo when we have these elements, along with the public interest and market information, what weighting is the commissioner supposed to apply to each of them? How does he or she show that the weighting has been applied appropriately? And how, in the legislation, is it confirmed that the boards of those entities will know in advance\u2014and sufficiently in advance, I think, to plan their business and appointments\u2014what those weightings are? At the moment, we have the conditions. That\u2019s fine. But if it turns out that the expectation or the reality is that Government expectations form 95 percent of the decision, and the rest of the elements get a mere veneer of treatment at best\u2014and I\u2019m not suggesting that that is the intention, but in the absence of those weightings it could be\u2014then we could end up with some serious distortions which actually undermine the intent, certainly, of the select committee in reaching the recommended amendments that we have, but also, I would argue, undermine the boards themselves, particularly in the context of some of the operations they have, particularly the ones that are more commercially oriented or minded, such as the Superannuation Fund, and particularly in the reality of the world, and the investment world, that the Accident Compensation Corporation lives within. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThat flows on, actually, not just to the weighting for each of those. If we look at subsection (2B), in clause 4, and indeed new subsection (2AB)\u2014actually, I\u2019ll start with (2AB) first: \u201CThe State Services Commissioner must provide reasons for refusing consent to any proposed terms and conditions.\u201D from the boards, and those conditions or criteria in new subsection (2AA) are the route by which he or she will reach that conclusion. I have concern in regard to \u201Cmust provide reasons for refusing consent\u201D, and my question to the Minister is: does he really believe that just simply saying \u201Cprovide reasons\u201D is sufficient to ensure that what the commissioner comes back with\u2014because this will be the heated part: when he or she disagrees with what the board, nominally considered an independent board, puts forward. Is simply saying \u201Cmust provide reasons\u201D enough? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe have the time now to reflect on this and to say \u201COfficials, maybe some slightly different wording here would be useful.\u201D, to give confidence to the public, and particularly to the boards, that if the commissioner is going to disagree with him, he or she has got to elucidate the grounds for that disagreement very, very clearly and comprehensively. That will give confidence\u2014confidence to the boards, and confidence, I would also argue, to the public, and, indeed, to members of this committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThat also has relevance to subsection (2B): \u201CThe State Services Commissioner must provide the boards of statutory entities with advice and guidance on the terms and conditions\u201D, and I do believe this is just simply an oversight, and we in the committee are, therefore, as guilty of that as anything else, But the Minister might note that while we would believe in practice that a good commissioner would see that these are natural linkages here, in law there aren\u2019t. So the commissioner can apply weightings to criteria, legally at least, anyway he or she wants to, and he or she is not obliged to actually give guidance to the boards that is consistent either with the criteria that he or she will apply, or, indeed, with the weighting that any one of those criteria could have applied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s actually tidier legislation if we were to take this opportunity to ensure that there is absolutely no misunderstanding or confusion that these things all operate together\u2014that the conditions themselves are not simply for reflection in one area to make a decision but form very much a part of the guidance responsibilities he or she has to those boards, and, indeed, are also a very important part of the reasons, the documentation, should the commissioner determine that they\u2019re not going to consent to the proposed terms and conditions for those boards. If we were to look at those, I think each of them is very important, and I think if we can ensure that wording is there that is very clear and links them together, we create a situation where there\u2019s a great deal more confidence from the boards in particular, but, because we are making laws for the country, also from the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, the other matter I want to just traverse in this call\u2014there wasn\u2019t a huge number of submissions on this bill but we did get a few\u2014is that the submissions we got were very well reasoned and came from very respectable and reputed bodies. The Institute of Directors was very clear that their view\u2014and this is the nature of their organisation\u2014is that the autonomy of a board is paramount, and that if you take one role, one item of responsibility, from the host that a board has, the most important one for them to exercise their independence in is the appointment and terms and conditions of a CEO. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThey argued quite strongly that setting fixed terms would mean, potentially, the possibility of people choosing not to seek a role, and would impair the board\u2019s ability to structure those terms and conditions in a way that\u2019s most, in their view, appropriate for their entities. And while, yes, they can be reappointed, there is no doubt that having that term limit means that the structure of the expectations has to be around that term. It can\u2019t possibly go beyond it, because there is no guarantee of continued employment beyond that. I think\u2014and we did reflect this to officials in the committee, as well\u2014that when we have a reasoned submission from a reputable organisation that exists for strengthening the ability of directors in both public and private sectors, then we do have a duty to show the consideration to that. I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister how he believes that five years will work effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022a749edea1a5c4d628463a2c01b43dea9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a749edea1a5c4d628463a2c01b43dea9\u0022\u003EVIRGINIA ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak to this bill. I acknowledge my colleagues from the Governance and Administration Committee, who listened to the seven quite detailed submissions that we received on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAs has already been acknowledged, new section 117(2AA), in clause 4\u2014the new provision in this bill\u2014was the part that caused the most rigorous discussion at select committee. That is the provision that \u201CWhen considering the terms and conditions of a chief executive, the State Services Commissioner must have regard to the following\u201D\u2014and we have five criteria listed below. But I\u2019d like to point out that there are words after that that haven\u2019t been mentioned yet. It\u2019s those five areas that are listed in the bill, which you are able to read. It also states \u201C(among any other relevant factors):\u201D. So it\u2019s important that, while we\u2019ve heard that the National members within the committee felt that this bill didn\u2019t go quite far enough, the Government members felt that the right balance was struck. It\u2019s always difficult to get that, getting that right balance between enabling a person with the appropriate skills and experiences to lead those significant organisations, which are a wide variety of Crown entities, and the fact that we want to make sure that we have a consistent approach right across the public sector\u2014trying to get that balance. It\u2019s not the private sector; we do not have the same free rein and the same mentality that goes there. So trying to get that balance right is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the points that remains there that really sticks with me is that, for those skilled and experienced people who choose to be chief executives within Crown entities, financial remuneration is not the only motivation to take that role; there are many other motivations that put people into those positions, and one of them is delivering good-quality public services to New Zealanders. So I think it\u2019s important that we take note that, in that subsection, 117(2AA), from the advice we received from the officials who briefed the select committee and the Government members, we felt that that balance was about right: that there was a good, clear description in those five criteria within (2AA), and there was also that ability for the State Services Commissioner to have regard to any other relevant factors. So there\u2019s a good amount of flexibility there. And also the words \u201Cmust have regard to\u201D\u2014so there\u2019s a requirement that those things must be taken into play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister the views on that, because the Government members of the committee certainly felt that that balance was about right in terms of how we would be looking at the appointment of chief executives of Crown entities going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002298295c31513e4471aa332349619f9f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298295c31513e4471aa332349619f9f5e\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very pleased to follow on from the contribution from the member opposite, Ginny Andersen, because she does touch on an issue which was of great interest to the Governance and Administration Committee, and that was around the submission of the Institute of Directors. It was an in-depth submission, but they showed very strongly held beliefs about the role of a board and a board of directors, and their almost singular role, one could argue, in the appointment of a CEO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe Institute of Directors made some really interesting points. It has been said before, so I won\u2019t labour this point, but, in their view, appointing a CEO is one of if not the most important functions of a board, and the important functions of the board include setting the terms and conditions of employment, including remuneration. I do remember from their submission, as I imagine all of us did, that they made that point on a number of occasions and in a number of different ways, because we were interested in that view and questioned them. But they were very firmly of the view of the fact that in section 117(2A) in clause 4 \u201Cthe board must obtain the written consent of the State Services Commissioner before\u2014(a) finalising the terms and conditions; or (b) amending any or all of the terms and conditions once they have been finalised.\u201D\u2014in a way, it diminished and took away some of that autonomy that boards have in the appointment of directors of Crown entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFrom our point of view, from the National point of view, we want the best people available to fill the role of chief executive in Crown entities, which themselves have large budgets, a lot of responsibility, sometimes a high degree of public service, and public accountability. We would like to think that choosing people to be those chief executives can be done in a way that really is enabling\u2014unfettered, if you like\u2014boards to go about choosing that candidate for the role. So while the Institute of Directors does not support the proposed change, we do, having noted on the way through some real concerns that the provision that is being inserted into this bill will have an impact not only on the ability of boards as they go about making appointments to Crown entities but also, perhaps, on the other side of the ledger, the type of person who is going to be prepared to put their name forward for those roles. The last thing that we need in New Zealand in the Public Service and on statutory boards are people, who are considering putting their names forward for a role as chief executive, being dissuaded from doing that by the requirement and fettering that section 117(2A) in clause 4 displays in saying that \u201Cthe board must obtain the written consent of the State Services Commissioner\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe member who spoke previously also traversed section 117(2AA) in clause 4, which outlined the terms and conditions of the appointment of a chief executive and those five terms that the State Services Commissioner must have regard to. Yes, they\u2019re there for all of us to see, and no doubt my colleagues will traverse them, because they are quite substantive. She did note \u201Camong any other relevant factors\u201D, but that does not take away, in any way, the provision in section 117(2A) in clause 4 where written consent for an appointment of a chief executive must be given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I am interested in\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u002286d0cf7a006742d69e676d0f4824a23e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d0cf7a006742d69e676d0f4824a23e\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll just take a short call, just to reflect on some of these\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6858e510734ac980c66e206a435ea5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on. Give it a good go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223348cf2f008042fa91e0b45d8a47cdac\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Not as short as you, the member for Hutt South.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdf9e2407314c2182cf7dbc200d80e3\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a very efficient speaker!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fdfc09b692d411181b51ccb3836785c\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Very efficient. Efficiency is\u2014\u201CP E\u201D, for efficiency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5cc07eab074ab79a0b41512e6b4d37\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Much better than our bus network.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cc4784872b9409ba7c24aeef96e7bca\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true. Now, let me just reflect on the submissions that we heard, because they were interesting. What I discovered is that there is no difference, actually, at central government compared to local government. Sometimes people think when you are an arm\u2019s-length organisation, that gives you more autonomy and freedom with the entity, but what I found that many forgot is that they are funded by public money\u2014and it\u2019s that that really brings into account that word \u201Caccountability\u201D but also puts that \u201Cpublic\u201D back into the Public Service. That\u2019s what I want to focus on, because that\u2019s where we had a bit of a tussle\u2014that\u2019s been traversed by previous speakers\u2014around really saying, \u201CLook, if we pay more, we get more, and we get this better person.\u201D But really that\u2019s a bit of a myth, and I don\u2019t subscribe to \u201CPaying more means you get more.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cefb5ca81d514d288f5d16e2f8ca798e\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: You know you\u2019re pretending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2490b47b4c14793ad0563d8121bf408\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: And you have the entities listed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229871b63ecc55479aa8d25f18583a7d71\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229942cf5412c433699b4d651bde37330\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re a very rowdy bunch, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c95a1a7aec414b01a0927b2006c11322\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: From behind you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c515c07a78f5423ea742e72ce1b5499e\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8adc812af614cd18ad58d1804014a6f\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913cef283d4849f8a617a27606604e58\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That\u2019s his way of showing public service to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBut, look, you\u2019ll see that there are several Crown entities, for example, that are really out of step\u2014in fact, 22 of them: 14 autonomous Crown entities and 10 independent Crown entities\u2014and so this really brings them into line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EIn my experience, certainly from managing the performance review committee of a chief executive in local government, that five-year term works well. There are some provisions there to stay on an extra two, or you choose to readvertise the role and apply on the open market for five years, but my experience told me this: the arm\u2019s-length autonomy actually means you need to actually rein them in a little bit more. You appreciate what they do there in the market place, but they sometimes forget that the very funding they get is public money, and I think\u2014and the Minister will clarify this\u2014that\u2019s the point of this. Let\u2019s get some consistency. Let\u2019s say that this Government is putting back the \u201Cpublic\u201D and \u201Cservice\u201D into the Public Service by saying we want our senior leaders in our whole-of-government approach to be accountable and to give that trust and confidence back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThe narrative won\u2019t be that we have highly paid CEOs who are actually running public entities; it will rather be that the services that they provide are providing value. So things around paid performance and that risk\u2014look, if they want to do that, then by all means go and find that role in the private sector. Sell more cars, sell more tyres, do what you need to do and get that performance bonus. But what we\u2019re saying in the Public Service is that you get paid a decent wage\u2014much more than a living wage, I might add\u2014and your service is part of that. You made that choice. You didn\u2019t come into the Public Service to try and exceed some of your board expectations. Maybe you did, but therefore that risk component has been built into it in a different way. Madam Chair, I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d633418a95b74f8e8a7411f13da24edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d633418a95b74f8e8a7411f13da24edd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m happy to respond to a few of the issues that have been raised so far. I want to thank the Opposition for their constructive work through the Governance and Administration Committee to improve this bill and for their support for it. They\u2019ve raised a number of issues, and I start with the ones raised by the Hon Dr Nick Smith around how far Governments should go. I think that that is a very reasonable question to ask and to have answered. I welcome the work of the committee to add in the criteria that the State Services Commissioner should consider in deciding how far to go in agreeing or not agreeing to a proposed remuneration package put forward by a Crown entity board. I think that they\u2019ve done a good job of doing that. Market conditions are still a factor that they need to consider, and that\u2019s specifically listed as one of the criteria that the State Services Commissioner will need to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s expectation certainly is that they should be paid a fair market package, but they shouldn\u2019t be at the top of the market. This was a view that was expressed not just by this Government but by the previous Government as well. We all know of a notorious situation not long before the election where the then Minister of Finance and the then Prime Minister both agreed with the State Services Commissioner that a remuneration package was too much, and the board of that particular Crown entity chose to offer it anyway\u2014much to the frustration of the then Government of the day, in a sentiment supported by the then Opposition of the day, that that was out of kilter with what was a reasonable expectation, even on a market salary. So I think that addresses that particular factor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EPublic service is a factor in taking on these roles, and that\u2019s something that we need to consider. One of the tests that the State Services Commissioner would reasonably apply is: would a lower salary package affect the ability to recruit the best person for the job\u2014you know, the most competent person to be the chief executive? And if the answer to that question is yes, then I think that would have a significant bearing on any recommendation that they might make or any decision that they might make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe other main issue that\u2019s really been raised\u2014well, there are the issues raised by the Institute of Directors around what this means for the overall autonomy of the board. The issue there is the board will still make the appointment and they\u2019ll still make that appointment independently. They will still recommend the salary package. So they\u2019ll still determine the salary package. It simply will require now the agreement of the State Services Commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ENow, that comes to the final question that, I think, Nick Smith asked, which was: is this about extending the status quo\u2014i.e., widening the status quo\u2014or going deeper? The answer is, and I think it will be to his comfort, that it is about widening the status quo, because there are already Crown entities where agreement is required. This extends it to a larger group of Crown entities. We think that system works quite well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson raised an issue, a very legitimate one, around the \u201Cmust have regard\u201D clause. I think that\u2019s something that this Parliament has learnt a little bit about in recent years. The closest analogy that I can think of off the top of my head is the remuneration of members of Parliament, because it\u2019s an issue that we\u2019re grappling with. Where previously the Remuneration Authority were responsible for making judgments about that, based on a set of criteria, the Parliament didn\u2019t like what was happening. We felt our salaries were growing too fast. So we changed that from criteria that they should consider, or must have regard to, to a set formula. So we were much more prescriptive. The result of which is that we then ended up in a situation where we were getting even bigger pay rises and the Remuneration Authority were saying to members of Parliament, \u201CThis is the pay rise that we are required to give you, though we do not think you deserve that much money.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo the flip side to a \u201Cmust have regard to\u201D criterion is that you go to the other extent where you end up with a very specific criterion and you remove all the subjective judgment from the exercise, and then you end up in a situation where you can have the completely opposite effect\u2014both ways; either too little or too much\u2014to what you had intended. So there is always going to be a degree of subjectivity when it comes to determining what an appropriate remuneration package is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe ultimate test, and the ultimate safeguard from the abuse of power there, is really with the board of the Crown entity, because the board of the Crown entity still needs to recommend the ultimate salary package. The State Services Commissioner can agree or disagree to that. If the State Services Commissioner disagrees and the board continues to have concerns about that, then they do have, I guess, the ultimate course of action, which is to resign their positions and force the issue back on to the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00228a7cdd97ef634a4b880c28c7857f468d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a7cdd97ef634a4b880c28c7857f468d\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I wasn\u2019t going to take a call, but I\u2019ve become now more concerned after listening to the Minister, the Hon Chris Hipkins\u2019, attempt to answer some of those questions. My concern is that this legislation risks politicising the public sector. I think I can set the scene first by my own experience as a Minister, in 2008, when the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2014or the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry as they were in those days\u2014came into my office. The director-general in those days was Murray Sherwin, and he said to me, amongst his senior leadership team, \u201CWe were here to serve the wishes of the previous Government. The Government has changed and we are now here to serve the wishes of your Government.\u201D\u2014completely apolitical. I think New Zealand is hugely lucky to have such an apolitical State Service, whereby their job is to serve the Government of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen we have this legislation before the House, and I think we\u2019re at risk of actually finding the Government having a role in politicising the State service. I want an absolute assurance that that\u2019s not the reason this legislation is before the House today. When you look at clause 4, \u201CSection 117 amended (Employment of chief executive)\u201D, you get to the situation where ACC, for example, wants to employ a new chief executive. The board goes through a recruitment process and makes a decision. It knows the capabilities of the person it is attempting to employ. The board knows the expectations of that new potential chief executive. So it starts discussing an employment package around days off, amount of holiday pay, and, most importantly, salary, and it comes to an expectation of what might successfully engage that person to become the chief executive of ACC\u2014the sort of process that works with every board in the country, whether it be a private board or a Crown entity. But then, having finalised that package to the satisfaction of the potential chief executive, whoops, there\u2019s one more important step. They\u2019ve got to rush off to the State Services Commissioner and get the State Services Commissioner to approve those negotiations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe State Services Commissioner hasn\u2019t been involved in those negotiations. He has no idea how capable this new chief executive may be. The only people who know that are the people who did the recruitment process\u2014in other words, the board\u2014and if it\u2019s a case like ACC, the board\u2019s actually appointed by the Government. But then you look at what\u2019s got to guide the State Services Commissioner, and you look at section 117(2AA)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e), and look at (d), \u201CGovernment expectations:\u201D. That is politicising the Public Service. That\u2019s what that does. The Government now steps in and starts to determine whom they want employed as the chief executive of ACC, because no longer do we have the independence we used to have with State entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI think this is very dangerous legislation before this House, and I\u2019m just not convinced that the Minister himself has got his head around the issue. The last thing this country wants is to see the situation they have in the United States of America, where a Government changes, a new president comes in, and all the institutional knowledge of the Public Service is, effectively, thrown out because they\u2019re all political appointments. That\u2019s where we could potentially head, and I just say to the Minister that I hope he\u2019s given this real thought as to the danger of this legislation. I\u2019m sure there wasn\u2019t an attempt when they introduced the legislation for that to be where it might lead to, but I\u2019m concerned it could lead to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI go back to my opening statements about the way that I first engaged, as a new Minister, with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, as it was in those days; the way I was absolutely assured at the start that the Public Service was there to do its job in an apolitical manner. If there\u2019d been an election the next day, they\u2019d have gone and started delivering the agenda of the next Government that was about to be installed. What we don\u2019t want is a Public Sector in this country that is in any way politicised, and when you look at the process of appointments of chief executives, whereby the responsibility to find a chief executive rests first of all with the board, then they\u2019ve got to get the permission of the State Services Commissioner, and then the commissioner has to follow Government expectations, we\u2019re in trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00220a30c5fd79984c5d9f1495b2ab936f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a30c5fd79984c5d9f1495b2ab936f6e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E I think the Hon David Carter raised a very legitimate point, which is around preserving the political neutrality of New Zealand\u2019s public services. I think that\u2019s something that we should all jealously guard in this House. It\u2019s something that New Zealand is internationally recognised for. It\u2019s something that we should be incredibly proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWith regard to Crown entities, I\u2019d point out that, actually, Crown entities are probably one of the most political parts of the Public Service because the boards of those are political appointees. The boards of all of the Crown entities are appointed by Ministers through a Cabinet process, through a collective process, obviously, but it\u2019s a political one\u2014unlike, say, a chief executive of a public sector agency where that is appointed by the State Services Commissioner independent of Ministers. So actually there are more safeguards within the core Public Service for that political neutrality than there is within the Crown entities sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMinisters send letters of expectation, for example, to the boards of Crown entities, setting out what their expectations are\u2014and this is not something that this Government\u2019s introduced; it\u2019s something that has existed for a very long time\u2014for how that board will operate. So it seems to me: why would a Government be sending a letter of expectations to a board around these matters, and then the commissioner, potentially, could be recommending something that was completely contrary to the expectations that the Government have sent to the board. I think that would set them up for\u2014if the board has to consider Government expectations, then the commissioner should also have to consider Government expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI do think that the Hon David Carter has raised a legitimate point around preserving that political neutrality, though, and I was concerned in the contribution of the Hon Dr Nick Smith, where he talked about the desire of the previous Government in making an appointment to the chief executive job role for the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment that they specified that they wanted someone from the private sector. In fact, that would be contrary to the State Sector Act. The commissioner makes the appointments for a Public Service chief executive. The idea that the Ministers in the Government were directing the commissioner as to who it should appoint would seriously undermine the political neutrality of the Public Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo I think thus far in this debate, the only evidential basis we\u2019ve seen for any undermining of that political neutrality is actually from the illustration that Dr Smith raised with regard to the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u002217960d4df9bf441fb158fde783381bd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217960d4df9bf441fb158fde783381bd2\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a real honour to speak, and I\u2019ve been listening very carefully to both sides of the committee with their debates. I\u2019m fortunate enough to not be on the Governance and Administration Committee. I\u2019m on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, but I see that the membership there is\u2014there are some highly talented people there: Brett Hudson, Virginia Andersen, Kanwaljit Bakshi, the Hon Jacqui Dean, Paul Eagle, the Hon Peeni Henare, Raymond Huo, and Jian Yang. So we\u2019re in good company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EEssentially, this piece of legislation is to control the pays of\u2014at last count there were three entities who didn\u2019t comply with the State Service Commission\u2019s guidelines. So we\u2019re talking about three people at the moment, but we support this bill, because we understand that it\u2019s a tidy-up process, brings the powers for Crown entities\u2014namely, the terms and conditions of employment for CEOs. It effectively gives the State Services Commissioner a right to veto appointments, because if he doesn\u2019t agree to the salaries or the conditions, that\u2019s, effectively, a veto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EHowever, limiting the terms to five years\u2014I think that\u2019s a good call. But I\u2019m a little bit worried about the direction that the coalition Government are going in terms of public services under their governance. There\u2019s a little bit less of the accountability coming in here. For example, in admissions in hospitals, we had a time limit and that, effectively, saved lives in emergency departments, and I see that they\u2019ve been kicked to touch. I see that CEOs\u2019 salaries\u2014the performance part of the salary is going to be paid out so there\u2019s no incentive there, and automatic payouts for risk share. So for people that don\u2019t understand what that means in terms of a salary, if they didn\u2019t meet the target, they lose that payment. And I see it\u2019s all going to be swallowed into one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ENow, Treasury have warned that this bit of legislation might impact competing to get good CEs, because we have to compete with the private sector. I see Minister Hipkins is keen on dropping measurement and setting of performance standards since they got into power. So they\u2019re more insistent on knocking the top rung of the ladder than pulling up the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI see the 8,600 members of the Institute of Directors state the bill may undermine good governance and take away too much power. Appointing and managing CEOs is one of the most important conditions that a board does. It\u2019s important that these functions are kept at arm\u2019s length. As I said before, we\u2019re talking about three entities that didn\u2019t follow the rules. But I talk in relation to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and Adrian Orr. I know that that got some coverage for a million dollar salary, but he runs an organisation that has $38 billion worth of assets under management. So you need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0aeec4a8f3541a6ac41706243ef4857\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1e44ca45164e43a03f462c55f92545\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014was. He was. And you want the top people in charge of that. They paid $6 billion worth of tax. So I think that you need to pay the money to attract the top people. I don\u2019t want inferior people running big organisations where we\u2019re dealing with a lot of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESo we support the bill. I\u2019ll just quote here, with this Government, \u201Crich pricks\u201D populist attacks are common from the other side of the House, and it\u2019s unhelpful when the serious business of governance is involved. We support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u002230617b6b567a450aa7f74d173914a5ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230617b6b567a450aa7f74d173914a5ed\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Now, this bill, in essence, as I said earlier today, has the intention to strengthen integrity, openness, and, of course, accountability in the management of the public sector. So the intention is well-known and, of course, good. The challenge here is how to maintain a balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThere are all sorts of conflicting themes here. One, of course, in Part 1, we can see, focuses on employment and remuneration. So these are important matters when it comes to hiring top chief executives. So Part 1 focuses mainly on the Crown Entities Act. It requires the boards of statutory Crown entities to obtain the State Service Commissioner\u2019s written consent to the terms and conditions of the employment of a chief executive. So this is new, because, at the moment, it is, basically, required to consult with the State Services Commissioner. So now it\u2019s required that these Crown entities get written consent from the State Services Commissioner. Also, for some Crown entities, this already applies, but now this bill will expand its scope to include many more Crown entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe bill also specifies a term of employment for a chief executive. This, again, applies mainly to Crown entities, because, in the State sector, most of these chief executives are already employed under a five-year term. So, under this current entities Act, there are no specific references to terms of employment for an entity, and this bill will set five years as a term. So the balance here is: how do we have this term or this kind of remuneration and, at the same time, have the ability to attract top or experienced chief executives? Now, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, in its submission, does provide some good points, which I think we should point out, and, hopefully, the Minister will be able to elaborate or answer some questions on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EIn its submission, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund states, \u201CThere is a broad spectrum of Crown organisations with diverse risks, challenges and complexities and their demand for knowledge and specific skills varies within the public sector.\u201D So they are opposed to what we call a one-size-fits-all approach to the employment of chief executives. I think this is a valid point, mainly because the New Zealand Superannuation Fund outperforms many other funds. Specifically, they mention that \u201CSince the inception of the Fund in September 2003, the Government has contributed NZ$15.02 billion to it. As at 28 February 2018, the Fund has returned 10% [per annum] (after costs, before New Zealand tax).\u201D So this is very impressive. How can we be sure that we are able to attract top chief executives and, at the same time, make sure the New Zealand Superannuation Fund will continue to perform?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EIn its press release\u2014of course, a public release\u2014the New Zealand Superannuation Fund also mentioned that the remuneration for all Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation staff, including CEOs, was paid for from the fund, not from parliamentary appropriations. So this is another point. I hope that the Minister will give us an assurance that we will be able to make sure the New Zealand Superannuation Fund will continue to perform well. The reason why I\u2019m asking the Minister to explain this is because the Minister specifically mentioned, in his interviews with the press, that this bill will target the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. So my question that I hope the Minister will\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e033b54b375d482fadfba7137042e1c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e033b54b375d482fadfba7137042e1c2\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a number of questions for the Minister in the Chair. I have three questions, in fact\u2014all three are for clarification. The Minister in his last intervention noted that there needed now to be agreement between the board and chief executive on the appointment of State services and on the appointment of a chief executive. I\u2019m assuming he was referring to clause 4(2) but then we go on to 4(2A), which really is the kicker in Part 1, which says, \u201Cthe board must obtain the written consent of the State Services Commissioner \u2026\u201D. So I\u2019d like the Minister to just clarify which of those two clauses he was referring to when he made the intervention, because while \u201Cagreement\u201D sounds entirely reasonable, I think \u201Cconsent\u201D is an entirely different matter. It comes to the very point of Part 1 of this bill, so I do seek some clarification. In the context of the comments that the Minister was making, which clause was he referring to, because I think it does matter for the Hansard for the Minister to be very clear about what he understands about Part 1 of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe second query I have for the Minister is around his outlining of good process\u2014good due process\u2014in the appointment of chief executives in the State sector and Crown entities. The Minister did mention that Ministers will send a letter of expectation to Crown entities in the sure and certain knowledge that they will get a reply and there will be discussion about that and so the Crown entity then goes on understanding very fully the priorities and the expectations of the Minister. I was interested in those comments because we have a couple of examples right now where there are\u2014is it two or three?\u2014Crown entities which have not received letters of expectation. \u014Ct\u0101karo is one of them and the other one is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c761402ce5f4881b451ba9bea02c139\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: Southern Response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249de3a23ee174b998c18012b6dee245b\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Southern Response. So we have two Crown entities which haven\u2019t received a letter of expectation from their Minister, the Hon Megan Woods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo where does that leave this Minister in terms of being a champion of good process in ministerial work with a Crown entity where the Minister, in this case Megan Woods, has not even submitted\u2014has not even sent\u2014a letter of expectation to these two Crown entities so that they are, effectively, operating under the previous Government, which by the way was a very good Government and set some very good letters of expectations? Maybe this is an acknowledgment by that Minister, in particular, in this Government that the letters of expectation sent by the Hon Gerry Brownlee were in fact not only set for purpose under the former National Government, but also so exemplary that they would continue under this new regime for now\u2014what?\u201411 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo I am interested to hear from the Minister around whether he believes\u2014and it was his words in the contribution he made about good process around the appointment of chief executives and how important a letter of expectations was. The Minister said so himself. I\u2019d like him to therefore explain and perhaps outline the conduct and inner thinking of his fellow Minister who has failed to do that, so that for 11 months there have been two Crown entities which have been rudderless in this current Government. He can tell the committee whether he believes that that is good process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe third issue, which I would like to traverse and seek the comment of the Minister on, is around clause 4(1): \u201CA chief executive of a statutory entity is appointed for a term of not more than 5 years, but may be reappointed.\u201D This is what I\u2019m interested about in this clause: the reappointment process\u2014\u201Cmay be reappointed\u201D. So what exactly does that mean? I\u2019d like the Minister to come to his feet when I\u2019ve finished my intervention and explain to the committee what that\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002253a7733825ca4a5690ae52c90f1366ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a7733825ca4a5690ae52c90f1366ab\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ab83629c9ea42028a45e6f331e2d1d2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000469\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002204da4ef5a23d491eb641a808a4e470e3\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to State Sector Act 1988\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002226a0b3c76f14487689125d92b88d0009\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226a0b3c76f14487689125d92b88d0009\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: This brings us to Part 2, the debate on clauses 6 to 17 and schedules 2 and 3, relating to the amendments to the State Sector Act 1988.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c407716d28ba48829c54a7acfafa62d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c407716d28ba48829c54a7acfafa62d4\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. It\u2019s just a shame that I cannot finish the point I was trying to make in Part 1. However, I\u2019m very pleased because I did want an answer. There were three questions I posed to the Minister and I did wish for answers to those, and I know I\u2019m now out of order in wanting those questions answered, but, in fact, the questions still remain and there will be questions arising out of Part 2 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EJust to set the scene, since I\u2019m the first keen member to leap to their feet, Part 2 of this bill makes amendments to the State Sector Act, and it does so in a couple of ways relating to a couple of areas. It improves the State Services Commission\u2019s investigatory powers. If you think\u2014and some member has said this\u2014it is a pretty light and small bill, it\u2019s not, because, in fact, this provision on improving the State Service Commission\u2019s investigatory powers is a very, very important part of this bill. Being able to conduct an investigation is a crucial function of the State Services Commissioner, and so this part of the bill addresses that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had a number of incidences in New Zealand where the State Services Commissioner has had to rely on powers under the Commissions of Inquiry Act 1908 to undertake those inquiries. However, with the Inquiries Act 2013\u2014it says \u201C2013\u201D in my notes, but I wonder if it\u2019s 2014. I would be interested, actually, if the Minister can answer that little question. The Inquiries Act was a good piece of legislation that was brought through when National were in Government. So what needs to happen now is that the bill will update the commissioner\u2019s investigatory powers under the Commissions of Inquiry Act by bringing them into and under the Inquiries Act of 2013-14. While the Minister is answering that question\u2014whether it\u2019s 2013 or 2014\u2014perhaps he might care to answer the three previous questions that I posed to him. I\u2019m sure Madam Chair won\u2019t mind. We\u2019ll just test that in due course, but I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any chance of him doing that, so that is a little bit of a moot point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EUnder new section 9A(2) in clause 8, there is a list of the sections of the Inquiries Act that would apply when the commissioner investigates something in the course of their functions under the State Sector Act. As I say, this is an important aspect of the ability of the State Services Commissioner to hold Crown entities to account for their actions. I do support this part. I think, in the course of our consideration in the Governance and Administration Committee, there weren\u2019t too many submissions in opposition to this provision\u2014and I will be interested in other members who are looking through and recollecting. Perhaps Government members might wish to comment on this. We received only seven submissions, but they were substantive submissions, and I would be interested in other members\u2019 views\u2014particularly across the Chamber\u2014on this new investigatory power, which brings them into the Inquiries Act of 2013-14. It is quite a neat little clause which has gone into this bill, and I do hope that members opposite will take time\u2014well, I\u2019m assuming they\u2019ve taken time to go through the submissions on this bill\u2014and really express their view to the committee for the fullness of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406d76253b5c4392aebed115e8ee5d24\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe we\u2019ll get some substantial comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4542746c6924e6884100aeeeaa46151\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m looking for some substantial submissions on this bill. I had only a few calls on Part 1 of the bill. Part 2, again, is a substantive part, and I do look forward to making a further contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002264672d2eb3264ad7993bf74d91cb80d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264672d2eb3264ad7993bf74d91cb80d9\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In Part 2, I\u2019d like to, firstly, draw the Minister\u2019s attention to clause 12\u2014clause 12(3) in particular. Now, we have absolutely no objection to giving the State Services Commissioner the power to institute a code of conduct\u2014no issue with that at all\u2014but my question for the Minister is, reflecting on that particular subclause, does he believe that we have actually got the wording right in, sort of, the effect and how we would expect that the State Services Commissioner might exercise that authority. It says, \u201CThe Commissioner may apply a code, with any variations that the Commissioner thinks appropriate in light of the legal, commercial, or operational context, to \u2026 (a) any agency or agencies \u2026 (b) any particular persons or groups \u2026\u201D. So what that actually confers to the commissioner is not to apply a code of conduct to boards of Crown entities, but to apply as many different codes of conduct as the commissioner may see fit to do over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, bear in mind that this amends section 57, and it\u2019s about minimum standards of integrity and conduct. Do we really believe that the principles of integrity and the principles of how board members would conduct themselves in the operation of their responsibilities would vary between entities simply because the function of the entity is somehow different? Remember, we are talking about integrity and professional conduct. My contention to the Minister is that those standards are the same, irrespective of which entity a person may serve on. Indeed, you could have a situation where one person serves on multiple entities. It\u2019s rather confusing and complex to have different codes for each entity that a person may serve as a member of a board on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI have reflected on that, and I actually think the wording is wrong. I don\u2019t think we should be encouraging the commissioner to have multiple codes of conduct with respect to integrity and general conduct. There will be instances, and I\u2019m not certain\u2014certainly in this part of the bill, at least\u2014that the commissioner necessarily has direct influence on these or not. Where the reflection is touching upon the actual operations of the entity, its functions and purposes, and the actions that the executive takes, which may well be guided through the governance of the board, absolutely, I can understand that those things will be different\u2014naturally different\u2014between entities, because the entities do have different sets of responsibilities. The characteristics of the people that sit on the boards in terms of their personal integrity and the way they conduct themselves in discharging their duties, their obligations, as members of the board, I contend are the same, but the legislation, very clearly and, therefore, purposefully, is actually setting the commissioner up to create multiple codes of conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo my question for the Minister\u2014and reflect on it, firstly. Please reflect on that, Minister. Is that really the message that we\u2019re wanting to send\u2014that professional behavioural expectations and personal characteristics, personal qualities, around integrity, might be different, depending on the Crown entity you may serve as a member of a board on? I\u2019m not at all convinced; in fact, quite the contrary. I think that, actually, it creates more problems than it would solve. So I\u2019m looking forward to hearing from the Minister on that particular point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, the other part of Part 2, which I\u2019ll also be seeking, if not a complementary call now, then one later, is on the power of inquiry. In the second reading debate, and please forgive me if my memory fails me slightly on this, the Minister noted that the commissioner\u2019s powers around inquiries were derived from a 1908 statute\u2014I think it\u2019s the commission of power of inquiry\u2014and that this would bring them more in line with the Inquiries Act 2013. Aside from the minutiae of the actual provisions, I would like the Minister to consider and comment on why it is we are replicating, duplicating, certain provisions of the Inquiries Act in this piece of legislation, instead of taking a position that says that the commissioner\u2019s powers of inquiries are defined in the Inquiries Act, and that if there were, in fact, specifics for the commissioner that were different or greater than or lesser than the elements, the provisions, in the Inquiries Act, we make amendments to the Inquiries Act instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EDoing it this way complicates the overall statue book, because we say a number of sections of the Inquiries Act will apply for inquiries undertaken by the commissioner\u2014for instance, section 14, \u201CRegulation of inquiry procedure\u201D; section 15, \u201CPower to impose restrictions on access\u201D\u2014I\u2019m not counting them, but there are about a dozen just in new section 9A(2) in clause 8. There are about a dozen of them. That means that if there\u2019s a future amendment to the Inquiries Act, anyone who\u2019s going through that has to establish whether those amendments will have any consequences on any other piece of legislation which refers to them, and particularly, in that instance, it does refer that they apply. Therefore, if they change, they still apply. They\u2019re not a copy of; they are a reference to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIf we look at that, that means that that\u2019s a very complicated future outlook for amendments to the Inquiries Act, and I could talk about how this has got a broader principle across the legislative amendments that we make. But, in this particular instance, it means that any future amendment to the Inquiries Act creates a great deal of work for officials and for drafters to understand, because any error that they make and that we don\u2019t catch through these stages of the legislative process can have very, very significant consequences for those people that get caught up in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThen, those elements where there are changes to this legislation, not by way of reference to other Acts, but instead by copying the words of those Acts but not creating a connection: actually\u2014and I don\u2019t mean this in a perverse sense\u2014they create the same sort of problem in reverse. Where we might want them linked to changes in those other Acts in the future, they won\u2019t automatically be. So the real point is, Minister\u2014and I see the smile\u2014perhaps it would be better to take an approach that says \u201CHow do we do this by reference?\u201D, rather than a hodgepodge of some reference that creates certain issues versus some copying that creates a different set of issues, and I think it\u2019s particularly around the Inquiries Act but also the Privacy Act where the other part applies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe do agree to that. We heard these in the committee. We\u2019ve got no problem with the actual provisions themselves. We agree wholly with this, but I think it is right for us to question in this stage\u2014in the short time that is available before this does receive Royal assent\u2014should we look at whether it is possible, whether it is better, to do it a different way. I\u2019m not seeking leave to put this back into the committee for another six months; I\u2019m just saying this is an opportunity to actually make sure that what we\u2019re doing\u2014although, you know, the committee would do a great job if you gave it to them for another six months, of course, and that applies in both the context of the reference and the copying of wording of specific provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne, particularly, that I think is perhaps a little more problematic in the minds of the public than some others is the suspension of certain privacy rights during the inquiry. My read of this, Minister, is that that is simply copying the provision. It is copying the wording of a provision, rather than making a reference to it. I think it\u2019s that suspension of privacy\u2014which we agree with, by the way. We think it\u2019s absolutely the right thing to do. We do not want to compromise the evidence of other people during that inquiry process, and we do not want to compromise the inquiry itself, but it does raise the question\u2014because there is a linkage there, and the wording was very clearly and definitely made to be consistent with other legislation\u2014that, therefore, if there are certain changes made in other areas of legislation, we may get a natural break here that causes a future issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s worth, you know, getting the officials on the phone, Minister. They can rush across; they could give a bit of advice on this. We\u2019ve still got time. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002210852cbb0b7640ad8aeb3e6c3a567df6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210852cbb0b7640ad8aeb3e6c3a567df6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E The member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Brett Hudson, raised a lengthy and interesting issue, which I\u2019m sure the Attorney-General at some point would be more than happy to comment on in great detail, and that was around the issues of cross-references in legislation. I can say that in the almost decade that I have been in the House, this is something that has frustrated, I think, many a lawmaker and many a law interpreter. I\u2019m sure, at some point, as we tidy up our statute book in New Zealand, it\u2019s something that we\u2019ll get better at. I think that the statute book that we have in New Zealand could do with a significant amount of housekeeping, and I know that successive Attorneys-General, including the current one, are working on that very process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe more substantive issue was around: would there be one code of conduct or many codes of conduct? I think that\u2019s a really important issue to raise, and I\u2019d simply draw at this point the member\u2019s attention to an amendment made during the select committee process which made it very clear that any specific provision does not limit or affect any other provision in the Act in terms of the conduct of a member. Their statutory requirements, if they have statutorily defined requirements, would not be affected by a code of conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s another related issue, which I think cuts to the heart of the concern the member was raising, which is around where people are subject to more than one code. The code of conduct that applies to the Crown entity board might not be the only code that they have to comply with, because the Crown entity itself may be regulating, for example, a profession where there\u2019s another code that\u2019s in existence. For example, the Code of Conduct for Directors of Victorian Public Entities in Australia states explicitly that it \u201Cshould be read in conjunction with any professional code\u201D that establishes \u201Cspecific behaviours relevant to that profession.\u201D If I go the UK Code of Conduct for Board Members of Public Bodies, it applies in addition to any duties of directors under company law or duties of trustees under charities law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think what the drafting of this is getting to is that\u2014you know, I can\u2019t envisage that the commissioner would be issuing, willy-nilly, lots of codes of conduct, but I think what they do need to have the ability to do is take into account other codes of conduct that those same people might be subject to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022db3069f6c85a4a659c4b07e0362fea06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db3069f6c85a4a659c4b07e0362fea06\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E There are two substantive issues with Part 2 of the State Sector and Crown Entities Reform Bill that I wish to make a contribution on and ask the Minister some questions on. The first of those relate to the powers in Part 2 for the State Services Commissioner to be able to be exempted from some of the provisions around the Privacy Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the concern that I\u2019d love the Minister in the chair\u2014now Grant Robertson\u2014to be able to respond to for me. The bill is absolutely appropriate\u2014that is, when the State Services Commissioner initiates an inquiry under the Inquiries Act, we don\u2019t want them being constrained by provisions of the Privacy Act that would have people refusing to provide information for the State Services Commissioner, who\u2019s acting in the public interest to get to the bottom of what often is something gone wrong. Sometimes a person may have behaved unethically, maybe they\u2019ve breached some law, or maybe they have misused some public money. But the challenge I\u2019d want to know from the Minister\u2014and it does concern me more generally around legislation\u2014is that we conveniently exempt State agencies from law, with no regard for organisations outside of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo if you\u2019re running a major corporation, and let\u2019s say a big organisation, whether it be an organisation like Fonterra, which I know my colleague Barbara has an interest in\u2014Barbara Kuriger; I\u2019m sorry, Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022912b7355cc444810a4147dfd270278f4\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Another name-dropper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f8b9a9db45d44079697bf6f7e3de7cd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or whether it be another major company. Well, she\u2019s a feisty chief whip and one that we must keep onside, as I\u2019m sure members of her side of the House understand. Anyway, if you\u2019ve got an organisation, in Fonterra, and the Fonterra board is wanting to investigate it\u2014and we could take the whey inquiry, for instance\u2014why should the provisions of the Privacy Act for that organisation fully apply to that investigation but not to the State Services Commission? The reason I raise that question is because so often when Parliament passes law, we impose all sorts of requirements on the private sector, like the Privacy Act, and then the State sector comes in the back door and says \u201CThis makes practical life too hard; we\u2019re going to fix it.\u201D, rather than us actually fixing it for everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo my challenge for Parliament with Part 2 and the provisions of the Privacy Act is, if the Privacy Act does not work for the State sector, shouldn\u2019t we fix the Privacy Act for the private sector as well where there are investigations of wrongdoing, rather than going down this road of conveniently just exempting the State sector from those provisions? I would suggest to the Government\u2014and this is important, because the Privacy Act is currently being reformed with a major bill before the Justice Committee. The Justice Committee is waiting for further advice from the Minister, where, actually, in our view that would be a better vehicle for fixing this problem for both public sector and private sector agencies. For instance, rather than amending the State Sector Act, why don\u2019t we make provision in the Privacy Act, whether you are a Fonterra or whether you are an ACC or a superannuation fund organisation, to say that where an organisation is investigating wrongdoing\u2014breaking the law, inappropriately using funds\u2014there are exemptions to the Privacy Act, rather than having the quite selective approach that\u2019s taken in Part 2 of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the second question I have is in respect of clause 12 of this bill, and that relates to the important issue of the minimum standards of integrity and conduct. It is actually quite significant. What clause 12 is proposing is that the influence of the State Services Commissioner and the minimum standards of integrity and conduct don\u2019t just apply to the employees of that organisation. Whether it be the officials that are within Housing New Zealand or whether they are in ACC, my point is that what this provision in clause 12 is proposing is that those standards that are set down by the State Services Commissioner now apply to board members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the Parliament should not underestimate how significant that is. I recite back to the history of the original intent of the 1988 State Sector Act. It was actually to enable boards of our Crown entities to operate with a lesser level of that sort of Gliding On Public Service culture, and while National members totally support the application of standards of integrity and conduct, what we don\u2019t want it to become is an all-encompassing State Services Commission that starts returning us to that sort of amorphous mass of an unaccountable and blurry public sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I also want to specifically ask the Minister how these provisions will apply to some of the new innovations that the Government\u2019s applying. It\u2019s fascinating to read the Cabinet paper on the appointment of the Chief Technology Officer, because what the Government\u2019s wanting to do is to get out of the normal State sector requirement of appointments being politically neutral and create a really odd situation where the Chief Technology Officer will be a political appointment made by the Prime Minister and the Minister for Government Digital Services and not through the normal State services process. Now, the question I\u2019ve got for the Minister in the chair is: will the new standards of integrity and conduct set down in clause 12 of this bill apply to that new office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite interesting that the Government did not want the Chief Technology Officer to be a normal public servant, to be accountable to a chief executive, or to be accountable to the State Services Commissioner\u2014that they wanted a political process. In fact, the way it\u2019s described in the Cabinet paper is that the Chief Technology Officer for the Government will actually be like a one-person board. So my question for the Minister in the chair\u2014and I\u2019m pleased the Minister of State Services is back in the chair and is able to respond to this point. It is: will those minimum standards apply to whoever it is\u2014and there\u2019s some controversy about it\u2014who is appointed as the Chief Technology Officer for the Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the list of employees in new section 57(3)(b) in clause 12, it says that, yes, it will apply to chief executives, that it will apply to employees, and that it will apply to board members, but it is absent on whether this new innovation\u2014that I think the Government has quite cynically created to be able to override the normal standards of appointment and political neutrality. It\u2019s created this new role without any of that constraint, and that person is not specifically listed in clause 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe analogy that I would make is that we have the position of the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor, and I would expect the new codes of conduct that are being set down through clause 12 for members of boards, public servants, and chief executives should equally apply. Whether you are the Prime Minister\u2019s Chief Science Advisor or the Chief Technology Officer, it would seem to us to be an anomaly in this provision that those specific office holders are not mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last part we just want to put a question to the Minister on in respect of Part 2 is how far will these standards of integrity and conduct go\u2014that is, we\u2019re all in favour of the issues of probity and being careful with public money and those sorts of issues being included in these codes, but what we don\u2019t want is for these codes of conduct to have those arms, legs, and fingers of the State Services Commissioner sneaking too deeply in to it, whether it be our school boards of trustees, whether it be our health boards, whether it be our other significant Crown entities. It would be very helpful if the Minister was able to give a steer as to how far those codes will go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002263005ef8230148408b24a5c9b9e62107\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263005ef8230148408b24a5c9b9e62107\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It gives me a bit of pleasure to take a call on this bill, which, on the face of it, looks quite simple, but I just wanted to follow on from Dr Nick Smith, the previous speaker, because having been around business and boards for a fair bit of my life, I\u2019m naturally suspicious of the motive of all sorts of things that go on in this sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think one of the great challenges we have with all of our boards in this country is the stifling of innovation and the stifling of the ability to pick up on things and make change for the better. I\u2019m not at all sure it\u2019s bad, because I don\u2019t really know where this will end up, and I think that\u2019s the challenge we have with some of this stuff: we don\u2019t know how far it\u2019s going to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI guess that I\u2019m not opposed to having codes of conduct imposed on boards of directors, but I am very suspicious of having codes of conduct that cover boards of directors, chief executives, and employees of whatever with the same conditions imposed on all of them, because I don\u2019t think it can possibly work. So I\u2019d be very interested to understand how the codes of conduct might work, because I do think that board members do need to have a very different set of standards around them. I know the Minister said a little earlier that the statutory requirements of board members will not be impacted by the code of conduct, and I was pleased to hear that because I think that makes a deal of common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also be a bit interested to understand\u2014and, I suppose, time alone will tell us that\u2014how much influence the Minister of the day might have in the implementation that the State Services Commissioner might put on these codes of conduct, and, in fact, what you might be able to influence in the course of the code of conduct being, I guess, implemented, because I think also that that could impact the type of person that puts their name forward for these boards. It could also impact on the quality of board member that we\u2019re able to attract into these sorts of organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019d have to say that I\u2019ve never, obviously, been part of one of these types of boards, but I\u2019ve certainly been around boards for a fair bit of my life and seen what I think is inhibitory behaviour, I suppose, for want of a better word. In other words, I think it\u2019s very easy to inhibit the quality of the result we get by legislation, and I\u2019d be nervous that there is a potential in this for that to happen. I\u2019m not sure there is, and maybe the Minister can assure me of that, but I just think that we need to be careful when we start to put these sorts of things in place that we don\u2019t stifle innovation and stifle the ability to get a better result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, I don\u2019t have an issue personally with a code of conduct, and I certainly don\u2019t have an issue with the State Services Commissioner being able to implement those, but I\u2019d just remind the committee that this is not an academic exercise we\u2019re undertaking here. This is about performance and about getting better results for the taxpayer, I suppose, for want of a better word. I think it\u2019s important when we consider how we might impose these types of things on boards that it\u2019s done constructively and in a manner that certainly\u2014as I said a minute ago\u2014doesn\u2019t put people off being part of that board and that encourages the very best people to put their names forward to be part of those boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI guess, if we don\u2019t do that, we could end up with a\u2014and I think the previous speaker referred to it\u2014situation where we\u2019re dumbing down the State sector. Of course, as soon as that happens, you then impact on the type of person you can employ in the State sector. So I think that\u2019s quite a concern to us, and I\u2019m probably just slightly outside the scope of this, but I\u2019m certainly not in favour of the massive pay increases that we get in all parts of business in New Zealand. I do think we need to be able to attract the best people at the same time, and I\u2019m not sure how you get that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, this is not an academic exercise; it\u2019s really about getting a better performance for the sector. I think it\u2019s important that we retain the independence of those board members and enable them to perform to their best. As I said, I would be quite interested to understand from the Minister in the chair, Chris Hipkins, one or two of those points I\u2019ve raised, because I think it is interesting. I do think this kind of legislation\u2014as we saw right through from the time of the global financial crisis (GFC)\u2014if we\u2019re not careful, has the ability to, I guess, stifle or impact negatively on what we\u2019re actually trying to achieve. We saw that with some of the finance companies as a result of the impact of the GFC, because I think we ended up doing away with a sector in the New Zealand economy that was pretty important to it. So that\u2019s my point. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0349e0e2da74d088e4b6ad456d26473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0349e0e2da74d088e4b6ad456d26473\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of State Services):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m very happy to respond briefly to a couple of issues raised by the Hon Dr Nick Smith. I understand\u2014I briefly had to duck out to attend to a call of nature, but I understand that he was raising issues around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e30a9d4c594f45b08e9b2112d40d3e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Too much information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d187408f83e64c8f8db32e0c6e5241bd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s too much information, yes; I apologise\u2014whether entities other than State agencies should be exempted from the Privacy Act considerations, as State agencies will now be as part of this bill. I actually think there is some validity to the argument that Dr Smith might have been making, but it would fall outside of the remit of this bill. But I think that it is something that the House may wish to consider and that there\u2019ll probably be opportunities to consider as we look, for example, at the rewrite of the Privacy Act and also work around the Protected Disclosures Act, for example, as to how we could deal with those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWith regard to the issues around codes of conduct, just to reiterate the points that I made earlier, I\u2019ll perhaps refer people to the departmental report that was provided to the Governance and Administration Committee, paragraph 33: \u201CA code of conduct issued by the Commissioner cannot override, undercut or otherwise interfere with Board members\u2019 statutory duties or any statutorily independent functions, as the statute will prevail.\u201D This bill has been amended to absolutely crystallise and guarantee that, but the report does go on to specify that there might be variations in the code of conduct and specify the reasons why that might be. The report notes that the \u201Coperational context of an agency or of particular persons or groups of persons.\u201D might be different, and the commissioner therefore has \u201Cdiscretion to issue modified codes to different types of entities or different persons or groups of persons.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe example that it cites is actually an example from the core Public Service, where the Public Service code of conduct has been modified in the case of political advisers or ministerial advisers in Ministers\u2019 offices, because they cannot do their jobs if they operate in a completely politically neutral and independent manner. There are parts of the Public Service code of conduct that, quite rightly, should apply to them, but there are parts that, if applied to them, would stop them from doing their jobs, and so the State Services Commissioner, in recognising that, has issued a modified version of the code for them. What the provisions in the bill allow is for the commissioner to issue a code of conduct and then, if necessary, issue modified codes of conduct, depending on the particular statutory functions of an entity concerned or the people within that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccaeed81adcf42199fcdf760371a2166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccaeed81adcf42199fcdf760371a2166\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Part 2 of this bill, as we\u2019ve heard, makes two amendments, one to do with the State Services Commission\u2019s investigation powers and the other to do with setting out the codes of conduct. I do appreciate the Minister in the chair, Chris Hipkins, talking about how those codes of conduct can be specified and bespoke and tailored to the types of roles people have in the State services. But I really want to look at the investigatory powers and the additional sections of the Inquiries Act which have been included in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to update the commissioner\u2019s advisory powers under the Commissions of Inquiry Act 1908. So it\u2019s an Act that has really, truly done its time, and I think it\u2019s really important that we regularly update some of these older bills. Interestingly enough, even though with these bills, often, the actual values don\u2019t change, we need to modernise and simplify the provisions so that they are fit for purpose in the future. So bringing the Inquiries Act of 2013 into this bill makes common sense, and I think it\u2019s particularly interesting what we\u2019ve heard in terms of privacy, and I\u2019ll come to that a little bit further in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EFirst of all, delegation of an inquiry\u2014I think that\u2019s important. We hear here that under section 21 of the Inquiries Act and section 23 of the State Sector Act, they allow for the commissioner to delegate, under certain powers, an inquiry, but, unfortunately, there\u2019s a conflict between both of those Acts\u2014slightly different rules about that. So the Governance and Administration Committee has recommended inserting a new clause, clause 8, inserting new section 9A(3A), which will \u201Cmake it clear that [the] delegation under section 21 of the Inquiries Act must be carried out in accordance with section 23 of the State Sector Act.\u201D I think, again, this is a good example of getting clarity in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI\u2019m always interested, also, in these clauses exempting inquiries from privacy principles, and the two principles they are exempting for are principles 6 and 7 of the Privacy Act 1993. For those who don\u2019t have that up their sleeve, what they actually mean: privacy principal 6 is \u201CAccess to personal information\u201D, and privacy principle 7 is the \u201CCorrection of personal information\u201D. I think it\u2019s been quite an interesting and useful debate that we\u2019ve had from my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith, which the Minister has also spoken about, in terms of whether this should only be for the State sector or whether it should also be available in terms of the private sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut what we\u2019re saying in this bill is that the purpose of this exemption is to ensure that inquiries have access to the best evidence\u2014the best evidence\u2014by allowing witnesses to provide evidence in confidence and also without being concerned that a third party could have access to this information. Although the committee thought that this exemption was important, it wanted to make sure that it only applied to inquiries made by the commissioners that were formal inquiries. So, in other words, you can\u2019t use it willy-nilly; it has to be a formal inquiry before you can have these exemptions under principles 6 and 7 of the Privacy Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think the committee also recommended that the bill provide a way to signal that an inquiry has been initiated and the exemption applies, and so they did quite a lot of work in terms of amending clause 8 and proposing new sections to make sure that the commissioner had to have a written certificate in order to initiate an inquiry. It also set out in the bill what that certificate should include, also making it clear that the commissioner\u2019s power to make a certificate could not be delegated. So, again, the commissioner has to be responsible if he is going to make a certificate. Furthermore, added to that, there were further accountability and transparency measures, which is always a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think the issue around that in terms of reporting is that the State Services Commission annual report had to include the number of certificates that had been issued and a summary of each inquiry, so that, therefore, the public and anybody reading the annual report would know which inquiries they\u2019re doing and why they had been initiated. So we think that\u2019s an improvement to the Act, and we support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cec8039f3d22416b955431d67de273f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cec8039f3d22416b955431d67de273f0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022887bf9debf5144d2a5268369443ddb84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022887bf9debf5144d2a5268369443ddb84\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Following on from my colleague Nicky Wagner\u2019s intervention around the inquiries, there are some pretty beefy powers contained in this piece of legislation, and one of those powers that did concern the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014and to which we have a proposed amendment\u2014is in section 10 of the State Sector Act, which provides for access, which provides for the provision of documents and a requirement for employees to answer questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIf you think about that provision, it is pretty wide-ranging. It must be incredibly intimidating for those who are caught up in the subject of an inquiry. I\u2019m very mindful of what Ian McKelvie said previously, which is that we\u2019re not just talking about hypotheticals here. We are talking about real incidences where there has been an inquiry triggered, a certificate has been issued, and that process, which has just been well canvassed by the Hon Nicky Wagner, is in train. Now, here, the rubber hits the road where, under section 10 of this power, there is an absolute requirement for access to an office, access to a building, within certain conditions, of course. There needs to be a period of notice and there needs to be consideration around that time where that office, say, for the purposes of this argument, is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBut in the bill as drafted, the State Services Commissioner\u2019s powers of entry, at least to a broader range of inquiries, would have started with a wider range of triggers. I think it\u2019s also really important to note that powers of entry are not used often\u2014in fact, very rarely used\u2014but they also provide a very important component in the undertaking of an inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe committee, having considered section 10 of the principal Act, has proposed an amendment in new clause 8A that entry should be made only if the commissioner has first obtained the agreement of the Minister of State Services. That is a fettering or limiting of the power of the bill as it was introduced, because when the bill was introduced, the commissioner would have had quite a wide power to enter the premises of a State services entity, where an inquiry is launched and where an inquiry is launched into a matter of integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo clause 8A constrains this power. Clause 8A would require the commissioner to obtain the consent of the Minister of State Services before exercising that power to enter the premises. I would imagine that would provide cold comfort to those who are on the receiving end of an inquiry such as this and who work in an office or an environment which is subject to an inquiry, but they should take some comfort that this recommendation in clause 8A, which amends section 10, limits the power and constrains the power of the commissioner to enter premises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00225a6b84ad0fa14ce2b89ab6dee7de6a8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a6b84ad0fa14ce2b89ab6dee7de6a8e\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022431ef5b06c314aa2b1817ca81d6d1ba4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022431ef5b06c314aa2b1817ca81d6d1ba4\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Part 2 deals with codes of conduct and also inquiries. In terms of codes of conduct, on the website of the State Services Commission, there is a statement, actually. It specifically states why there is no code of conduct for Crown entity board members. It says, \u201CAs the Crown Entities Act 2004 specifies individual and collective duties of board members, the Commissioner has decided not to include the personal conduct of board members in the coverage of the code of conduct.\u201D Now, of course, we are going to change that. On the other hand, it is important for us to make sure that we make it clear how we will apply the code of conduct. Will it be collectively or individually?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EA submission by the Institute of Directors specifically raised this particular point. It emphasised the importance of there being clarity around the collective and individual duties of boards and board members under the Crown Entities Act 2004, and their obligations under a code of conduct. While legislation takes precedence, there may be issues with how the Act and the code interrelate and operate. It also emphasises the importance of how the proposal will not compromise the statutory independence of independent Crown entities. I think these are points that we need to bear in mind when we come to talk about this code of conduct issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EI am very proud that the Governance and Administration Committee made a substantial contribution to Part 2 of this particular bill. For instance, the committee included section 9A(4) about exemptions\u2014some members have mentioned that. But, at the same time, the committee also made an effort to constrain the power of our commissioner\u2014for example, in clause 8A. The reason for us to have the exemption clause is to ensure the commissioner would have more power to make sure that the witness would be able to give their evidence without being concerned about the access of third parties. So that is important in that sense. At the same time, the committee also made it clear that we need to somehow limit the power of the commissioner, in this particular case, with the exemption. This kind of an exemption will be applied only to formal inquiries, not to other inquiries\u2014it must be very formal. The committee also proposed a new section which would provide a mechanism for a witness to apply to the court, seeking an order to allow them to withhold privileged, confidential, or State-sensitive material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the committee would also constrain the commissioner under the bill. As introduced, the commissioner would have had relatively wide powers to enter the premises of a State services agency where an inquiry is being launched into integrity matters. Well, this bill, as amended by the committee, will constrain the commissioner\u2019s power. The committee also made a contribution in the sense that the commissioner would make sure that this kind of inquiry would be limited only to formal inquiries, and also transparency will be assured with annual reports, because with annual reports we\u2019ll be able to know how many inquiries have been launched in the past year and also all those details. This will ensure transparency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThis bill itself, of course, is about integrity, openness, and, of course, transparency. So the committee itself made a great contribution in this sense. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002293654b56d32a44c1916d903e58afa42a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293654b56d32a44c1916d903e58afa42a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229006039e6b0f4989993844b6051cdcb2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000539\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000540\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 93 in the name of the Hon Chris Hipkins to schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000541\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000542\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000543\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000544\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d5af736e1ee4cfea8a82762ac6d66c5\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8e074e2132643be9a003229d5b99086\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8e074e2132643be9a003229d5b99086\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, while we do remain broadly supportive of the bill, we\u2019ve had concerns, which we\u2019ve expressed through the appropriate debate parts this afternoon, particularly around the State sector or Crown entity CEO pay and employment terms and conditions\u2014enough so that, perhaps, such a bland title as the State Sector and Crown Entities Reform Bill may not be the very best title. We\u2019re concerned that this could potentially\u2014not just potentially, actually. We\u2019re concerned, because we haven\u2019t got movement today on some of the provisions around what the commissioner can and can\u2019t do\u2014what they may have to give regard to, but no clear weightings and expectations, in the legislation at least\u2014that this could have a very chilling effect, particularly on those Crown entities on which there have been past public pronouncements around this very area. The Superannuation Fund and ACC strike me as two particular ones. So perhaps we could call it the \u201CSuppressing Crown CEO Salaries Reform Bill\u201D, or the \u201CState Services Commissioner Empire-building Bill\u201D, or any such name like that\u2014not as flippantly as it might sound, but actually because we\u2019ve raised some questions on this side this afternoon which we are concerned haven\u2019t been addressed by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI do note that while it\u2019s against Standing Orders to refer to the absence of any member in the Chamber, to my knowledge it is not against Standing Orders to refer to the absence of officials in the Chamber to advise the Minister in the committee of the whole House stage. So while I\u2019m very mindful that the Chair might make a comment about the seriousness of a name change that I might suggest, I\u2019ve only been a member here for four years, but I can\u2019t really recall a committee stage where officials haven\u2019t been present to provide advice to the Minister. I actually think that sends a signal to the committee\u2014I\u2019m a member of it, and it certainly sends a signal to me\u2014that the Minister didn\u2019t come to the committee today with any serious intent to debate the provisions. That is not meant to be unkind to the Minister, but it is reflected in the absence of officials to actually answer the questions, because he hasn\u2019t answered the questions. He\u2019s sought to deflect and dissemble and divert\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c4f22c522244bdbfd891091e2211ef\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, he has not. He has answered the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f10c1a57af7457a8bb3a1f6ae429447\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but he hasn\u2019t actually answered\u2014OK. Mr Robertson raises this, so if I may respond to that interjection, Mr Chair, I specifically asked a question about, in the legislation, what weightings would be applied to the criteria that the commissioner has to give regard to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a213b99c92134fdc801ce1ce52bbe97b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hudson, we\u2019re on clauses 1 and 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082540d2a2b745ebbef160879a0aea61\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, but the Minister did not answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f250f47be314c42bf421a7bc7ec8f3a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s already been accepted by the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022127eaaefa8144cf898159ed6b2defc2a\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: If the officials had been here, they could have answered that. So I don\u2019t think it actually would be out of order to say that maybe we should rename the title of this bill, because perhaps the absence of those officials does indicate that this bill is all about suppressing the salaries of hard-working Crown entity CEOs, and perhaps, particularly, those that have enormous responsibilities for the well-being of New Zealanders. I particularly refer to the Superannuation Fund, with their $38 billion worth of assets, and ACC, who are able to wash their own face in terms of managing the risks and potential financial liabilities to ACC because of the nature of how they run their business, and particularly the investment arm of it. So we could, and should, perhaps, call this the \u201CSuppression of Hard-working Crown Entity CEOs\u2019 Salaries and Some Associated Inquiries Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe commencement date, I think, is interesting, because it\u2019s not been explained. Normally commencement dates are a date, or \u201Cwhen it receives Royal assent\u201D. It\u2019s not been explained by the Minister, and I call upon him now to take the opportunity to explain: why is there a specified hard date in this legislation? (1), why doesn\u2019t it come into effect as soon as it gets Royal assent? I think the draft Order Paper we saw for this week could see it pass its third reading tomorrow, so why is there no Royal assent element to the commencement date? Why that specific date? Why, in fact, does it not just come into effect for each Crown entity at the time they seek to make their next amendment to CEO salary and conditions, for this particular Part 1, or, indeed, when they next employ a CEO? The Minister might like to just, you know, elucidate on that. I\u2019m sure he\u2019d be keen to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225dd57ad48d0346f1936c0b5d372b6cf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dd57ad48d0346f1936c0b5d372b6cf5\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will pick up the point that my colleague Brett Hudson was making around the commencement date, 31 October. Here we are on 12 September, and it\u2019s only, what, six weeks away. It just seems like almost unseemly haste in the implementation of this bill. There are a number of steps that still have to come into force, so I\u2019m sure the committee will be watching\u2014oh, we still have to have the third reading. I suppose the Leader of the House will\u2014there was time this morning, in fact, because the House rose an hour and 45 minutes before it was due to, and a couple of bills just slid off. The whip on that side of the House is called Ruth Dyson, so there we are. There was no Minister ready in the House to take a call, which is pretty outstanding work on behalf of the Government\u2014just a shambolic state of affairs, because this morning could have been an opportunity to perhaps pop in another reading of this State Sector and Crown Entities Reform Bill, because the Government just seems to be so very keen to have this bill enacted with a lot of haste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI think members on this side would have been quite prepared, since the Order Paper has moved around considerably. Not only last evening but today there has been considerable movement on the Order Paper, so I don\u2019t see any reason why for this particular bill we couldn\u2019t have had the committee stage this morning, after the grand mal which was the fault of the senior Government whip and the Ministers present in the House. But our whips, who are ever-vigilant, would have made it possible for us to deal with the committee stage of this bill. Of course, this morning was still yesterday, as members will recall, and so we could well have been on to the next reading of this bill, which would have suited the Government\u2019s agenda. I don\u2019t know why they didn\u2019t think of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d6a90b9a86940f98bc307457c1b4855\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is not a general debate. This is a debate on clauses 1 and 2 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e373d6d385a54dba97ee2b7e9a31264d\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you\u2014thank you, Mr Chair. I do appreciate your guidance. So I just say, with regret: opportunity missed, and a shambolic morning on behalf of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe do need to be careful, in the passage of this bill and the provisions in this bill, that we don\u2019t enable a witch-hunt on behalf of this Government for a couple of CEOs and their conditions and rates of pay. If we do see that, then our concerns on this side of the Chamber will be vindicated, but I sincerely hope that we do not. We also need to be mindful of Treasury advice, which said the Public Service agencies are very large organisations that control very large budgets and have a high degree of public visibility and ministerial accountability, and we need to make sure that in enacting this bill we recognise that potential CEOs of these large organisations are, in fact, competing against the private sector for top-quality candidates. I know that this Government wants to bring the top down and wants to sort of suppress the top. I understand that; I understand their philosophy. But we mustn\u2019t\u2014mustn\u2019t\u2014have a situation where good people are turned away from public sector service because of the enactment of the State Sector and Crown Entities Reform Bill and the dampening impact potentially it will have on CEOs\u2019 salaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe have to recognise, and on this side of the Chamber we absolutely recognise, that for the important public sector work we need the best candidate possible, and if we can possibly take someone from the private sector and put them into a public sector role, then all power to them. Their experience, and the degree of responsibility they are going to have to show in that public sector role\u2014the visibility they have to all New Zealanders and to the Government\u2014are accounted for in their conditions of work and their remuneration. National does support this bill, but it has noted a number of concerns, and raises a flag to this Government that we will be watching how this bill is enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c73f564f39a44757ac5032649ea260de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c73f564f39a44757ac5032649ea260de\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E There are three points that I would like to make in respect of Part 2 of this bill, and I want to particularly draw the Minister\u2019s attention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba80b073b5ea49a19076f3ad8712dee4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re on clauses 1 and 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247346ea477e847948b71a402cfa10b9f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019m sorry. My humble apologies to the Chair. I had to absent myself quickly from the Chamber\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65f691391e94d3ab49881d8668ebfc2\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a shambles over there! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c96da0362b4ca1bf8d246b4cd6159a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Robertson, I\u2019d be happy to provide an explanation of where I was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756494ab81cf4781b5231b9e1ae6c9c8\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: I really don\u2019t want to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1abf7fc45b40df9bfc85ea5f1d711e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, I\u2019ll tell you exactly what it was. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Chris Hipkins, has invited our side of the Chamber to engage on important issues around a major State sector reform. The State Services Commissioner said the only time that he could meet with me was this afternoon\u2014at the same time as the Minister in the chair is wanting us to debate a State sector bill. Now, actually, it\u2019s a bit like the fiasco that occurred over education. It actually does make it quite hard, but I\u2019m only moaning about those matters because members opposite wanted to raise them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIn respect of the title and commencement of this bill, I am interested to know from the Minister why it is urgent for these new standards to apply. A question that I put to the Minister on the earlier parts was that we have this controversy raging around the appointment of the Chief Technology Officer\u2014that has resulted in the resignation of a Minister. Now, here\u2019s the really interesting part that\u2019s relevant to this bill, and that is the open question that the Minister did not respond to on the debate on the earlier part, as to whether the new codes of conduct and ethics that are being applied will, in fact, apply to the Chief Technology Officer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, given there is serious doubt\u2014serious doubt\u2014about whether the Chief Technology Officer will be appointed by 31 October or not, is the reason that the Government wants this bill coming into effect in relatively short notice\u2014and that\u2019s more than just a few weeks away\u2014because the Government wants to install some ethics and some standards around the Chief Technology Officer, given that this is one of the more dodgy things that I think this Parliament has seen in some time around the extent of the public sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe know it\u2019s a very unusual appointment. It\u2019s unusual in the sense that, unlike an appointment of any of our major public servants, that\u2019s managed by the State Services Commission, the Cabinet paper for the appointment of the Chief Technology Officer directly went around that process. So my question is: is the timing in the commencement clause, clause 2 in this bill, related to that? Or, if not, why is the Government so keen to get this provision in place? Could it be that there is some other thing going on? And I\u2019d love the Minister in the chair to comment. Is there some inquiry under the Inquiries Act that the State Services Commissioner has got his eye on initiating, that there is an urgency with the deadline of 31 October\u2014just six weeks away\u2014when the Minister is wanting these additional powers to be able to bypass the Privacy Act around an issue of an inquiry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f2ae56e73e46e2951abf4e63b073cc\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: We just want to help Simon Bridges with his inquiry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c94453c3394adc859fa7354fc02783\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We would just like\u2014and I notice that Grant Robertson is intervening. I\u2019d love to know as to whether there is some sort of inquiry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228835733249394f399ed85a3788372cf3\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s only one inquiry going on in this building\u2014right over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb59c29f8144df79808cd4540c31db1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the Government has in mind. I\u2019d love to know from the member opposite: who is it? Mr Robertson has just asserted that it\u2019s from over our side of the House. Does he have information on it? We know the Government knows. We know parts of the Government know. And why not just disclose that so that we can get through that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e388d7c22a5644f5ac88ee6eda4f0eef\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be388015acac49adbe412d007e38b361\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite think it\u2019s quite funny. Actually, it goes to the heart of Government if the Speaker\u2019s office or some other public servant has leaked that information, and I\u2019d love to know. I\u2019ll tell you something: I\u2019m absolutely confident that it is not a member of our caucus team. We\u2019ve not gone down the road of ripping our guts apart, as I saw with Grant Robertson when he knifed Andrew Little and when they knifed the other three Leaders of the Opposition. That\u2019s not what we do on our side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022b889f7f44b184a968fc441eff1511d87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b889f7f44b184a968fc441eff1511d87\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002264a889b0f07c490ab9c83ca55dcd04fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 56.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000578\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000579\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000580\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000581\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000582\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002245cdc63e57aa4526af95cb08511de093\u0022\u003EFinancial Services Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c49b3d791d9546fcb2d63a07a7fc5f7b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002284e3a79a317e4a50a4bf568bfd119d24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284e3a79a317e4a50a4bf568bfd119d24\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: I move, That the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bill reforms the regulation of financial advice in New Zealand. Its overall objective is to promote the confident and informed participation of investors and consumers in financial markets. The bill also makes changes to reduce the misuse of the Financial Service Providers Register. The bill has been reported back by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee with a unanimous recommendation that it be passed with amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI would like to thank the members of the committee for their careful consideration of this complex bill. The committee considered more than 70 submissions, covering a range of matters. Most of those submissions supported the policy intent of the bill, but the committee has recommended some important changes, ensuring that the bill achieves its policy intent. These changes will be covered in later speeches by members of the Government. I kindly and fully recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbff07d84f324a66bd5315233f5e2d16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbff07d84f324a66bd5315233f5e2d16\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to, as the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, thank the Minister of Finance for his kind words for the hard-working committee as we deliberated on and considered this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe financial advice and services reform that was started by the previous Government followed the global financial crisis that incurred tremendous losses for people in New Zealand. I believe at the time there was around $9 billion that was lost. So the first regulatory regime for financial advice and financial service providers came into force in 2011, and there was in that original bill a statutory review of the existing regulatory regime to be completed in 2016, which was part of this whole process that brings us to this amendment bill, the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThere was industry and public consultation on the issues paper; an options paper released by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment; and, following those rounds of consultation, the National Government sought views on an exposure draft of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137031457fd14d25b391f58f614504aa\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House has resumed. Before the dinner break we were debating the second reading of the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, and Jonathan Young has eight minutes and 33 seconds remaining to speak, should he wish to take it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226146b9e6c03d48fa844bd0f4da33611d\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker, I certainly do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EAs the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, I am pleased to come and report to the House on the work of the committee. We received 72 written submissions on the bill, and quite a number of those submitters came and spoke to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EJust for some context and history, this bill\u2014or, in fact, the whole regulatory regime for financial advice and financial service providers came into force in 2011. This bill is based on a statutory review of the existing regulatory regime, and that review was completed in 2016. Then Cabinet policy decisions were made on a new regime and, in February-March 2017, consultation opened up on the draft bill. Then, of course, we had an election, and, coming back into the House, the bill has come to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. It would, ordinarily, go to the Commerce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhat the bill does, it creates a new framework for giving financial advice by amending the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 and the Financial Service Providers (Registration and Dispute Resolution) Act 2008 and repealing the Financial Advisers Act 2008. Under the new regime, financial advice providers, being any person carrying on a business of giving financial advice, will be required to be licensed by the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) to give advice to retail clients. Of course, all of this came in to being because during the period of the global financial crisis many New Zealanders lost their life savings through poor advice that had been given to them, and that amount has been estimated to be $9 billion. So we now have a regime which is robust and has gone under a period of review, and now this bill comes back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, the committee received 72 written submissions. Twenty-eight were from financial service firms including small and large financial advice firms, banks, KiwiSaver funds, insurance companies, trustee companies, and other financial service firms. Seventeen submissions were received from industry or professional bodies representing the interests of financial advisers, financial service providers, insurance companies, etc. Included into that was chartered accountants, retirement villages, and even exercise facilities. Eight were from law firms, seven from individual members of the public, six were from individual financial advisers, five were from consumer-interest groups or dispute resolution schemes, and one was from the code working group that is developing the new code of conduct for financial advice. So you see, there was quite a broad range of submitters that came to the committee. The committee heard the submitters here in Wellington and also in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe review found problems with the current regulation of financial advice. The review found problems with the misuse of the Financial Service Providers Register, and there were some key amendments proposed in the bill. They included removing the requirement that only a natural person can give financial advice, which allows for provision of online advice. People can go to a website of a financial institution, they can put in their data\u2014confidential of course\u2014and there can be assessments made around their data, and they can receive advice from that data, often called robo-advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EExpanding the minimum standards of competence, knowledge, and skill to all categories of people giving financial advice to retail clients was a very important part of the bill, and, certainly, having a customer-centred piece of legislation is absolutely critical, and this bill strengthens that. So requiring all people who give regulated financial advice to comply with standards of ethical behaviour, conduct, and client care is very much part of this, adding a requirement that anyone who gives financial advice must put the interests of the client first and disclose prescribed information. It limits who can give regulated financial advice. It simplifies the regime and its terminology, for example, by removing the categories of \u201Cauthorised financial adviser\u201D, \u201Cregistered financial advisers\u201D, and \u201Cqualifying financial entities\u201D. It amends the requirements to be registered on the New Zealand Financial Service Providers Register to prevent its misuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe bill defines \u201Cfinancial advice\u201D as making a recommendation about financial products or designing an investment plan. Of course New Zealanders all over this country seek that advice. They want to prepare for their future, and they want to have advice that will give them confidence and surety in that future, the best advice possible. Of course, many people, as we learnt very early on in the piece, that took wrong financial advice during the financial crisis that took place, lost the opportunity of not only being able to invest their money but being able to earn money again, and so they\u2019re incredibly vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the most common types of financial advice relates to switching KiwiSaver funds. We noted that a decision to switch between funds within the same managed investment scheme is technically not a renewal or variation of the terms or conditions on an existing financial advice product. Therefore, providing advice on switching funds could be excluded from the regime. We consider that the regime should apply to advice on switching funds within KiwiSaver or other managed investment schemes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn clause 27, new section 431J(2) of the Financial Markets Conduct Act would impose a duty on financial advice providers to take all reasonable steps to put the client\u2019s interests first. We understand that this is to stop advisers from recommending one product that might advance their own interest\u2014for example, by earning them a commission\u2014over another that would better serve the client\u2019s interest, a matter that has been discussed a number of times prior to this bill coming to this House and the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe looked at the conduct of nominated representatives. The scope of advice that could be offered by nominated representatives should be limited. The intent of the bill is that financial advice providers should, ultimately, be responsible for the conduct of their nominated representatives. Therefore, the activities of a nominated representative should be tightly controlled by the processes and systems of the provider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe looked at exclusions from regulated financial advice, particularly for lawyers and accountants, who, in the normal course of their business, may give some degree of advice to their clients. We recognise that normal legal and accounting advice may sometimes technically fall under the bill\u2019s definition of what financial advice is. However, we consider that lawyers and accountants should not be burdened with additional regulatory controls in the course of their ordinary business or occupation. Existing regulatory frameworks for the legal and accounting professions should suffice. We, therefore, consider the exclusion necessary to avoid unnecessary compliance requirements and, of course, costs, which are passed to the clients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI am very pleased to support this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022706b95c71a2f4a4a87492f4a700823f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022706b95c71a2f4a4a87492f4a700823f8\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill is an important piece of legislation in establishing a good regulatory environment for New Zealanders who are in receipt of financial services. We\u2019ve had two very comprehensive speeches\u2014from the Minister of Finance, who launched the debate, and now the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014that have gone into some detail on the provisions of the bill. I thank both of those members for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EMy own select committee, the Finance and Expenditure Committee, will next week be receiving submissions from a number of organisations in respect of the Australian royal commission into banking issues. So it\u2019s very much top-of-mind for our select committee, while we have not considered this piece of legislation, the issues that go to the heart of consumers being able to have confidence in the financial advice that they receive when they go to experts in receipt of advice that is principled and will provide them with good avenues to invest their hard-earned money. As Mr Young outlined, we\u2019ve had issues in New Zealand in the past with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EPerhaps the most pressing issue, actually, at the moment in New Zealand is the sheer number of New Zealanders who simply don\u2019t receive any good advice at all. We have a huge number of New Zealanders who have billions of dollars in funds\u2014some in KiwiSaver, some in other forms of investment\u2014who simply don\u2019t have the right avenues to go and receive information. Some of that\u2019s about access, but also I think some of it is about a lack of confidence, given some of the issues that have occurred in New Zealand in recent years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation, to me, at its heart is about trying to re-establish that confidence for consumers, for people who need financial services advice, by ensuring that we have a transparent system, and by ensuring that we have, for example, a good code of conduct in place so that people know there is a place to go if something goes wrong. I doubt that there are many New Zealanders who, if they walk into a financial institution, know the difference between an authorised financial adviser and a registered financial adviser, for example, and this piece of legislation, amongst other things, is about making that kind of thing simpler.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EJust a couple of key matters that I wanted to touch on: one is the level of innovation that comes through in this bill in respect of not requiring natural persons to have to give the advice. That opens up some capacity for robo-advice to be provided. I think it\u2019s important that we all keep an eye on that to ensure that the best outcomes arise as possible. It\u2019s very important that we do that. The second issue, which I know came through in a number of the submissions, was a concern around ensuring\u2014and this is one of the objects of the bill\u2014that we have adequate regulation at both the big end of town and the small end of town. The bill has certainly tried to deal with that by ensuring that that applies across the board, that the duties are universal to people who are providing advice, but I think, again, that\u2019s something that we\u2019ll be needing to keep an eye on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very much my view that this is a good piece of legislation that brings our regulations up to date, that deals with a number of the concerns that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and others in the sector have raised, but it\u2019s probably not the final word on the matter. As the sector continues to grow, as our understanding of the issues changes, as technology changes, it\u2019s likely that this House will return to some of these issues in future years as well. But for now, I think the House can be well-satisfied, through the tabling of this legislation and through the select committee process, that we have a good, robust piece of legislation to give New Zealand financial consumers confidence in the advice that they will receive, and I commend it to the House. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdc7294318b64cdca98207ad7bbe9093\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdc7294318b64cdca98207ad7bbe9093\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it was very pleasing to hear that previous speech from the chair of the committee that worked hard on this bill. It\u2019s interesting; I was the Minister at the time when it was first developed, and I\u2019m sure that if I had brought this bill to the House, the member who has just resumed his seat probably would have opposed it, but that\u2019s the funny way of politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe origins of this legislation go back to the global financial crisis, I suppose, and the situation where, right throughout the world, there was concern about the conduct of financial markets. There were a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the course of the market transactions that went on during the global financial crisis. In New Zealand, the particular thing where a lot of people lost a lot of money through was the finance company collapses that we saw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand, like many countries back around 2012 and 2013, came through with some very heavy and substantial regulations in the financial markets area. One of those was the regulation of financial advice in New Zealand, which up to that point had been pretty relaxed. As a result of that, there was a five-year review period where we agreed, when the first bill came in, to take stock of where the regulated financial advice services got to. As a result of that review, this legislation was developed, and then a wider series of issues came along as we went.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFrom my point of view, there were a couple of things that were driving it. One is that when you look at why New Zealand is the successful country that it is and why so many people want to live here, it\u2019s because we have high living standards; we have a good, strong, vibrant economy; and we can provide good quality healthcare and education, superannuation for everybody when they\u2019re old, and opportunities for people to get ahead. That\u2019s partly why New Zealand is a successful country, but we also have a series of things which are very precious to us and that we should never lose sight of. One is the quality of our environment, but another one is the relatively high-trust, low-corruption, rule of law - based society and economy that we enjoy. That is incredibly rare in this world, and we\u2019re one of the relatively few places where there is that high level of trust and relatively low levels of corruption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut we should never take that for granted, and we\u2019re not perfect by any means. One of the core functions of the Government is to keep asking ourselves: have we got the settings right so as to encourage good levels of probity in the way that various things are dealt with? Here we\u2019re talking about the conduct of financial markets so that people can have the confidence to invest their funds effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnother driver of it, of course, was the concern around the escalation in house prices that we\u2019ve seen in many of the cities around New Zealand in recent years. Part of that, of course, is also related to the conduct of financial markets. A lot of people invest all their savings in houses because nobody has ever managed to steal a house very effectively, but, in living memory, in the last 20 or 30 years, there have been three or four generations who have lost huge amounts of savings through the sharemarket collapses and the finance company collapses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo part of the reason why New Zealand doesn\u2019t have a great tradition of saving in a financial market sense, as opposed to real estate, is because of a natural wariness over the conduct of those financial markets. So that is why we took the step to regulate as heavily as we did. Of course, if you have, on this side of the House, a philosophy of regulatory restraint, you do that with a great of care and caution and concern. So we\u2019re asking ourselves: did we over-egg it, or did we get it about right, or what are the things we need to do to change in order to ensure that the financial markets sector continues to innovate and provide great services and isn\u2019t bogged down in regulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOne of the outcomes of that was a desire to enable robo-advice, which was one of the things that I pushed quite hard early on. We want to be enabling of innovation as much as we can. The purpose of all this legislation is to ensure that New Zealanders can get access to advice. One of the concerns arising several years after the heavy regulation was introduced post the global financial crisis, was that one of the consequences of that heavy regulation was that it had become so expensive to provide that advice\u2014because you have to jump through many hoops of fire\u2014that the net effect was that people with relatively modest savings didn\u2019t really have access to financial advice. You needed, effectively, to have half a million dollars before anybody was interested in offering that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo one of the objects of this legislation is to try and streamline the way that the regulations operate. How successful, in the end, the Government has been at that is an open question and something that we\u2019ll come back to, but enabling digital innovation in this area and removing barriers to that is an important part of encouraging people to access financial advice more easily. Certainly the younger generation of Kiwis would far rather turn to an app of some sort to get, effectively, some advice on what to do with their savings, rather than necessarily sitting down and talking for half an hour to somebody and going through 500 questions. So we need to make it fit for purpose, fit for the task. So that was one of the issues that we dealt with there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other thing, of course, is around conflicted advice. When you look at it, it\u2019s relatively straightforward. If somebody is coming along and offering me a financial product, it is highly relevant to know whether or not they are getting a commission. If they\u2019re suggesting that you invest in product A rather than product B, we should expect to be able to know whether they\u2019re getting a commission on product A and not on product B. That is a fundamental piece of transparency that is required in the provision of advice. So that is the purpose of requiring some transparency around what an adviser is able to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere have been long debates at the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee about how far to push that. In terms of somebody who is working within a particular firm that offers a bunch of financial services, where we got to is you can\u2019t expect an adviser within that firm to offer everything in the whole market that is available, but you can expect them to say, to make it absolutely clear, when they\u2019re giving that advice, \u201CWell, these are the products that I\u2019m selling, but there is a whole lot of other stuff that you could look at. I\u2019m not pretending that the products that I\u2019m offering are the only ones, and, obviously, I have a commission that is related to those products.\u201D But just getting transparency into that process has been a critical part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen the second point was to make it quite clear around the expectations that advisers should put the interests of the clients first. You might think that\u2019s obvious, but if the practice has been to churn clients through, chopping and changing through different offerings, purely so that the adviser can get a commission every time they do it, regardless of whether the change is beneficial to the client, then that is not something that we would support. You might argue that that\u2019s something for individuals to deal with, but the whole point of financial services is it is a very complex area and that is why we have chosen to regulate in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I hope that this will, over time, add to the slow process of rebuilding confidence in the conduct of financial markets in New Zealand so that more New Zealanders diversify their savings away purely from real estate and into the financial sector, and on that basis I commend this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022711e0e0e1efa4548b0aafc6404172721\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022711e0e0e1efa4548b0aafc6404172721\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Assistant Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to stand and speak on behalf of New Zealand First on this Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill. It is a pleasure indeed to take this call on behalf of my colleague Fletcher Tabuteau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to acknowledge the previous speakers on this bill tonight for the great clarity that they have given in their speeches. For someone who\u2019s not really a bean counter\u2014my father was, in fact, a bean counter; I\u2019m much more of a spender myself than a saver\u2014it\u2019s been really interesting. So what I\u2019d like to talk about really is perhaps from a Kiwi perspective of those who don\u2019t really engage in financial markets but have some small amount of savings and want to make sure they are secure. It\u2019s really the mum and dad - type investors that this legislation will be protecting and that is a really important thing that we are doing here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill was actually introduced as a safeguard for all New Zealanders whether they are high rollers or just your mum and dad savers. It\u2019s against improper financial advice and about providing certainty for all these New Zealanders so that their interests are being put first. This bill speaks to the core values of New Zealand First and so we are happy to support it. It speaks on behalf of the many New Zealanders who want progressive policies and legislation that is in the best interests of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill will protect investors from low-quality and poor financial advice and these changes will demand all financial advisers adhere to the same conduct, the same compliance and obligations. The bill has been reported back\u2014and a job well done from the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014with a unanimous recommendation that it be passed with some amendments. They considered 70 submissions through the course of their work in the committee, and most of these submissions supported the policy intent of the bill, but the committee has recommended some important changes aimed that ensuring the bill actually achieves its policy intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EParticularly, I note, for example, the technical reading of the bill as introduced suggested the regime may not cover financial advice relating to switching between KiwiSaver funds\u2014and this is probably for most New Zealanders who are investing with their KiwiSaver funds. It could actually result in a situation where a consumer is advised to switch\u2014maybe they\u2019re on a conservative fund up into a growth fund\u2014and they need really good advice about what that means for them and for their future financial health. If they\u2019re changing within the same provider without the advice, that will be caught by the regime. Making a decision about what KiwiSaver fund to invest in\u2014well, that\u2019s, you know, for many, a really important financial decision. The committee, helpfully, recommended changes to in fact clarify that financial advice in relation to those decisions is covered by the regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EMy call on this tonight is brief other than to say really that this has been a good work across the House. Financial advice in fact plays a very important role in the lives of all New Zealanders, particularly our mum and dad investors. Good advice, high quality advice\u2014it\u2019s instrumental in improving the financial position of ordinary New Zealanders. The financial world\u2014it\u2019s not a very easy one to navigate. It can be very complicated, somewhat confusing for many consumers, so sound, quality advice is crucial in successfully traversing the financial landscape. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00224bf57921fdb3477892374a00dc54a3da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bf57921fdb3477892374a00dc54a3da\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next member, I just want to encourage all members across the House, particularly our new members, that by now we should not be reading speeches. We should actually be just reading from notes. So I encourage members to take advantage of the debating chamber in its fullness and encourage members not to read their speeches. I call Brett Hudson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90ab76fa73b4ebebc569ae3de4eab19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90ab76fa73b4ebebc569ae3de4eab19\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I hope you weren\u2019t anticipating my contribution with those comments. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in support of the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, and I think it\u2019s important we do consider, as this has exited select committee, why we as a Parliament would look to not only introduce but potentially pass legislation that does a great deal to regulate the behaviours of a particular part of the market\u2014the financial services part of the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s well within living memory to remember the global financial crisis and the implications that had not just at a macro level on countries\u2019 economies. But, if we look at the heart of it, a lot of the stimulatory activities, a lot of the bail-out activities that happened around the world and including New Zealand were not just to protect an institution, certainly, or a system; at the heart of that, it was about protecting what the member who just resumed her seat, Jenny Marcroft, referred to as the mum and pop investors\u2014the people who had taken what they had, and what they had wasn\u2019t necessarily a great deal, and had looked to invest it in reasonable return areas and found themselves compromised when something that was akin, at least in parts, to a house of cards collapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThat actually brings us to the heart of why we should have regulation and legislation like this. Financial services is an area perhaps greater than many, if not most, where there is an information asymmetry in the transactions that take part. That is, the people that offer the services or sell the products and services have a great deal more knowledge\u2014an in-depth knowledge\u2014of not only what they are selling but what backs it up than the consumers or the purchasers of those products and services. So they are in a natural position to potentially take advantage explicitly or, simply, through inaction, if not direct action, to encourage people down a line of investment that, if they had the benefit of the same level of understanding, they may not take. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo when we have in a market information asymmetry, it is a natural place for Parliament to consider either primary legislation or regulation, or both, to help to address that and to mitigate what could be very, very negative consequences for consumers and indeed, when enough consumers are affected, the market as a whole. So I\u2019m delighted that what has come out of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee is recommending some very sensible additions to make sure that there are minimum standards of competence and knowledge within the industry but that there are also standards of ethical behaviour in the nature of advice and the responsibilities that come with giving advice. It means that New Zealanders and our markets can have greater confidence that the fundamentals, the foundations of our financial services markets, are on a stronger and more solid foundation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI noted my colleague Mr Goldsmith, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, made a point\u2014he was talking when I walked in, at least\u2014about people getting their information today on apps and new ways of interacting with service providers. It is pleasing to see that one of the changes recommended from the committee is that a prohibition on non-natural persons offering financial advice has been recommended to be lifted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, at a very simple level, people call that robo-advice, but I think that as technology continues to mature\u2014and something we\u2019ve heard quite a bit about over the last couple of years is artificial intelligence\u2014robo-advice is no longer going to be what might have been thought of, in the first instance, as where you ring up a telephone number and a machine answers \u201CPress 1 for this.\u201D and suddenly you get some basic, or perhaps slightly greater than absolutely basic, advice. Most people would understand robos because some of them have been subjected to inbound robo calls. This is a bit broader than that, because what sits behind that advice is actually what the programming is, what the decision making is, and how that advice is constructed and offered. We will see artificial intelligence have a far greater role to play, particularly when that institution knows the person that calls them, and particularly if they are an existing client and they have a great deal of information on their position and their current investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EActually, that is a good thing. It is a good thing if it\u2019s used well, because any company\u2014in this case, a financial services company\u2014can offer enormous value to their clients if they take what they know about them, what they know about products and services, what they know about markets, and what they know about other investors. They can tailor advice to them that is beyond the absolute basic and can be of greater future value to that client. But, if it\u2019s done poorly, it could also result in, if not financial harm to that client, certainly a sub-optimal outcome. So I\u2019m very pleased that there is a recommendation to remove that restriction and to allow robo-advice, which will lead to so many opportunities in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI am particularly happy\u2014particularly pleased\u2014about the provisions around a duty of priority to the clients\u2019 interests. Any business, whether they are financial services or not, if they have a vision of a long-term successful future for their business and their shareholders, should be placing their clients\u2019 interests ahead of all else, because, ultimately, it is that client remaining with that business or coming as return business that leads to their greatest success. So it\u2019s pleasing to see that the legislation enshrines that duty of care to the advisers. I\u2019m also pleased, along with it, that there are good, strong elements of pragmatism to it\u2014a recognition, for instance, that no matter who the financial adviser is, they can\u2019t possibly know every single product or service that might be available on the planet, and, particularly, although there is some contention within the industry, it does permit that some institutions that will only ever offer products that are their own, such as banks, are able to do so and not contravene the Act, as long as they make that disclosure upfront. I would note that that is not without some controversy in the industry. The smaller and more independent financial service advisers that have spoken to me have, certainly, raised this issue that that means that there is less control or less oversight on what some of those things, those larger institutions, might be, but I think, on balance, we\u2019ve got it absolutely right\u2014not close to right but absolutely right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAlso, the exclusions from regulated financial advice: I had a wry smile as I read through, particularly, new schedule 5 in schedule 2 of this bill. On the face of it, if you didn\u2019t sit in the committee\u2014and I didn\u2019t; I attained the spokesperson role for commerce and consumer affairs when the hearings were already under way for this bill\u2014it looks like almost every profession and person you can imagine is actually excluded from giving financial advice, and I breathe a huge sigh of relief that members of Parliament are included in those exclusions, so feel free to talk to people about what you wish. It is right that we make some genuine effort to ensure that the law that will cover financial advice and regulated financial advice is targeting the right people, the right businesses, and the right sorts of services in the market place and not, through an unintended consequence, affecting a broad swathe of others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOne of the ones I was pleased to see is that journalists are excluded. They do not offer financial advice. So, for instance, if I was to ask Mr Richard Harman if it would be a good idea for me to put a bet on this Government not lasting three years, he wouldn\u2019t be at risk of being subject to regulation under this Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill. So I would encourage Mr Harman to give me the good oil on what actually is going to happen, because I think he has a bit of insight there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b2e58a92a54ba990b7f8987aff467c\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Have a bet on Simon!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101cebfd603c46d7bf0b8fb88c5bc603\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: The last part I would like to talk about\u2014and, you know, things that bring Governments down, for instance, are when their own backbenches don\u2019t have confidence in the Prime Minister. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f28e84f77644490da8bf8a7c7b14647c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226414034d683243889e60cb7a4594cbda\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, it\u2019s quite shocking isn\u2019t it? If you don\u2019t have confidence in your Prime Minister, how can the country have confidence in her? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe other thing\u2014and I\u2019d say that a practitioner came to speak to me about this\u2014is that it\u2019s very important that the legislation we make doesn\u2019t turn off legitimate opportunities for New Zealand businesses. We have the ability to offer high quality, high-integrity financial services as an export to the rest of the world, and we shouldn\u2019t have legislation in place that prevents it. I\u2019m very pleased to see that officials recommended a change that means that if you\u2019re a New Zealand exporter of financial services and you don\u2019t have New Zealand clients, you can still get registered, which was pleasing to see. So, overall, I will commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd46bb6539ee4c658da660e622e6b732\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd46bb6539ee4c658da660e622e6b732\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Assistant Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou, kia ora. I rise to support this legislation. Look, when you\u2019ve got tens of billions of dollars of New Zealand\u2019s hard-earned income invested in private enterprises\u2014I mean, for example, just look at KiwiSaver. This year, it cracked $45 billion. It\u2019s estimated to grow to $200 billion over the next 12 years. How that money is dealt with and the investments that are made are critically important. We want to make sure that people have certainty that financial providers are going to be acting in the best interests of their clients and their money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s a clich\u00E9 in 2018 to still keep referring back to the 1980s sharemarket crash, but we do know we have a different investment culture to many other developed countries. You have to wonder: was a generation burnt off by that experience of what we saw in the sharemarket in the 1970s? That\u2019s why it\u2019s critically important we have a robust, fair, transparent, modern regime, and that\u2019s exactly what this legislation is about. It\u2019s developing a new financial services regime, and then, secondly, also embracing innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe saw some of the debate from the previous speaker, Brett Hudson. Look, it\u2019s good to be taking steps when it comes to robo-advice, but the last member was absolutely right: we need to be preparing for the likes of artificial intelligence, blockchain, crowd computing\u2014all the sort of modern clich\u00E9s\u2014but this is going to transform the financial market sector. Why is it important in the big scheme of things? It\u2019s because those hundreds of billions of dollars set the framework for what our country is, going forward. We have an historic problem with investing. Instead of investing in modern business, capital, and new processes or technology, we\u2019ve got a history in New Zealand\u2014maybe it dates back to the sharemarket crash\u2014of investing in our houses and speculating on asset gain. That\u2019s why I\u2019m so looking forward to the Tax Working Group coming back, because we need to make sure we\u2019ve got the tax settings right for the financial services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ELook, it was a pleasure to be on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the chair. I acknowledge the members. I understand there were around 71 submitters\u2014I thank them. For me, I think one of the big changes we saw coming out of the committee was new clause 27, which is the duty to protect their clients\u2019 interests. What we heard was that financial service providers face a wide range of pressures, both internal and external, for the types of products they could recommend to the advisers. Having this clear and unambiguous is a very positive step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EObviously, the committee has taken a pragmatic step, which is clarified in the committee\u2019s report, which is that there\u2019s a caveat. It\u2019s not requiring that a financial service provider goes across the entire product of every single range and every single potential market; it\u2019s requiring only acting in the clients\u2019 best interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAnother area where I think a reasonable, pragmatic step was taken was the terms of the nominated representatives. Here you see, I guess it\u2019s akin to subcontracting, with financial service providers divvying out some work\u2014so making sure we\u2019ve got some clarification around where those responsibilities lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAn area I was particularly interested in and asked a number of the submitters about was around how we deal with our brand risk. We saw as a result of the Panama Papers and other international reporting that we\u2019ve had some less than desirable practices in our financial markets in New Zealand. What the risk was was that some, let\u2019s say, less than scrupulous providers were registering in New Zealand, or providing quite a tenuous link to New Zealand, and then marketing themselves into international markets using New Zealand\u2019s brand and New Zealand\u2019s good name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019re cleaning up as a result of the Panama Papers, it\u2019s very positive that the Financial Service Providers Register\u2019s regime has been improved. This means that our international clients can have much more confidence that if they\u2019re dealing with a company which is on the New Zealand Financial Service Providers Register, it has much more of a stronger link to New Zealand and our regulatory regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThirdly, we look at the exclusions in clause 58. Here, you\u2019d want to make sure that as you\u2019re developing this financial services regime and applying it so that customers or clients can have confidence in their providers, we\u2019re not drawing too wide of a bow so that your lawyer or your accountant or\u2014as we heard previously, before\u2014your member of Parliament or your media is covered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe also saw the issue of disclosure of information. That\u2019s in the regulation-making powers, and that was something I raised in the first reading speech that the Green Party caucus was concerned about when it was introduced under the previous Government. We didn\u2019t hear any concerns from our submitters on that, so we\u2019re quite comfortable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAll in all, it is good legislation setting up this regime. We\u2019re comfortable with the direction. We\u2019re pleased by the improvements and glad that it\u2019s seeing unanimous support in this House tonight. We\u2019re very proud and pleased to support it. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00226aae5f026a714f0a9b39e095b4f2580e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aae5f026a714f0a9b39e095b4f2580e\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Madam Assistant Speaker, it\u2019s a great opportunity. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, sometimes called F-SLAB, and I think sometimes it was actually called FSLAB. In Parliament, we often come across some acronyms, and I think I was actually picked up by one of the newspapers, suggesting that I didn\u2019t actually know what the legislation was because I didn\u2019t know what FSLAB was, versus F-SLAB\u2014and going \u201CWhat was that?\u201D. I just want to say, I do actually know what the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs earlier speakers have said, there were at least 71 different organisations and individuals who actually submitted to this legislation, to this bill, through the select committee. We heard from 34 of them, and I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to thank the chair and the members. There are some new members to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, and I\u2019d like to welcome them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge the Minister the Hon Kris Faafoi. This is the first chance I\u2019ve actually had in the Chamber to thank him for the support of his officials and commend him on being named as the new Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media\u2014particularly digital media Minister\u2014in addition to his role as commerce and consumer affairs Minister. I\u2019m sure that he has a lot of work already. He has a big workload, and I hope that he is up to the task of the massive issues that the digital sector is actually facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIf I could actually go back to one of the things that Jonathan Young has mentioned, in terms of what this bill is actually about, this bill actually seeks to establish a new regulatory regime for financial advice and financial advisers in New Zealand and to amend requirements for registration on the Financial Services Providers Register to prevent its misuse. The bill is actually based on a statutory review of the existing regulatory regime which was completed in 2016.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EMany members have actually mentioned the particular point in terms of removing the requirement that only a natural person\u2014meaning, you know, human beings\u2014is able to give financial advice; to, in fact, allow for provisions of online advice, called robo-advice, and I want to get to that particularly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESome members have talked about the telephone call that people make to, let\u2019s say, a bank and it saying \u201CPress 1 for this thing. Press 2 for this thing.\u201D, and recently I\u2019ve had an opportunity to meet with and actually visit some of New Zealand\u2019s very innovative companies such as FaceMe and Ambit and to actually be shown what their business is actually capable of and what they\u2019re innovating in this space of digital technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I came across was an avatar. This particular company had developed an avatar\u2014it\u2019s a face; it\u2019s a computerised face\u2014which was a meld of M\u0101ori, Asian, and Pacific faces and actually looked like one of my god-daughters, who happens to be Samoan, Dutch, and Chinese. This avatar was able to provide financial advice. For example, I think this particular one was actually developed for the ASB bank. What this avatar and the robo-advice can actually do is that, with the access of the person\u2019s identification card or the bank card number or a bank customer number, they can get advice from this particular computerised robot\u2014to say, for example, \u201CI want to buy a new car.\u201D, and the robot can actually say \u201CYou are able to borrow\u201D\u2014or have the capability to borrow\u2014\u201Ca certain amount of dollars, from your past history.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis is something that new technology is making happen in New Zealand, and some of these New Zealand companies are leading the way in this new digital era. All that artificial intelligence technology that people talk about actually puts us in a space where, instead of having real people providing financial advice, there are technical things that even robots can actually do, and, hopefully, the regulatory regime that actually removes requiring natural persons to be the only ones who can actually do this will provide the banks to provide sometimes simple advice\u2014and more complex\u2014that robots can actually provide to the customers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI think it is important to note that during the National-led Government, we improved a number of existing matters in the financial sector, including tightening the market regime for those who provided financial advice, and, also, we strengthened New Zealand holding the reputation as a good place to do business, and I think that is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe actually talked about\u2014some of the members have sort of talked about\u2014how in the 1980s, with the stock market crashes and everything that has actually happened around the world, people are very gun-shy in terms of what they will actually invest in. Often, we are dealing with, you know, mums and pas\u2014and people have actually said that\u2014and, often, they don\u2019t actually have the expertise, nor do they have the sophistication, to think about what they can actually invest in and what kind of benefits they will actually have. It\u2019s very important to make sure that we have a trustworthy, very good regime that can actually protect the customers and make sure that how little or how big\u2014it doesn\u2019t really matter; I think one of the members opposite actually said we need to protect both the people on the high end and the low end of the spectrum when it comes to investment\u2014they get very good advice. And I agree, and I\u2019m glad that all of the members here actually agree on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we also heard during the select committee process is, because New Zealand has such a good reputation\u2014being transparent and a place to do business, and, you know, it\u2019s good for business\u2014we\u2019ve actually had situations of overseas financial companies that don\u2019t actually belong in New Zealand registering their companies here and never actually providing advice. They\u2019re taking advantage of the fact that they happen to be registered in New Zealand, and this is one of the things that we will actually protect New Zealand people from, as well as making sure that those businesses who establish here are in fact New Zealand businesses\u2014that they do actually run a business here and they\u2019re not just taking advantage of the good name of New Zealand and not operating some shyster, fake business or whatever just to take advantage of New Zealand\u2019s good name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I wanted to talk about is the confidence that people have. Actually, it reminded me of what Mr Gareth Hughes talked about, and earlier, I think, Mr Brett Hudson talked about, which is the issue of making sure that unintended advice\u2014for example, there are reporters and column writers writing for newspapers or on blogs or whatever. It is not necessarily financial advice that they\u2019re giving. They give an opinion, and some of them are experts and some of them are not. Lawyers provide\u2014in their everyday transactions, where they\u2019re dealing with mortgages or discharging mortgages or giving some advice as to what they should do, and in terms of accountants when they\u2019re dealing with their customers, they are not necessarily providing financial advice. If they\u2019re going about their everyday kind of work, then they should not caught in this regime and also be punished for their everyday work that they do. Like a member of Parliament might say, \u201CMaybe you should talk to a financial adviser. Maybe it\u2019s a good idea to put some money in a savings account or invest in something.\u201D\u2014we\u2019re not necessarily providing financial advice, or what most people would consider to be financial advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs a migrant, one of the things that I have noticed, just talking for myself, is that our parents have a different way of thinking about what savings are or what investment is, because we come from a different culture. You come to New Zealand, and the way that we view investment is actually very different. Often, migrants\u2014you know, for my parents, it was always about things that are tangible, and investing in things that were tangible. So they would never invest in stocks, but they would always put money into things like plants, factories, or buildings. As we get more sophisticated, we will actually move on to other investment portfolios like stocks, for example. Having good, robust financial advice is what people need, and I think this particular piece of legislation provides that and protects New Zealand customers so as to get the best-possible advice that they could have. The very fact that this bill has come to this House is, I think, a great thing, and I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00222f721c95353240109c08766602987e28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f721c95353240109c08766602987e28\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, your time has expired\u2014I\u2019m sorry about that. I understand this is a split call. You have five minutes\u2014Greg O\u2019Connor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3baee31faaa45088e9a7cf4cf26a226\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3baee31faaa45088e9a7cf4cf26a226\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Assistant Speaker. It does give me great pleasure to rise on this bill, and the consensus that I\u2019m seeing and feeling about the need to protect vulnerable New Zealanders\u2014I think the words are \u201Cmum and dad investors\u201D. Mum and dad New Zealanders are to be protected. I\u2019m just looking for that consensus continuing when we talk about housing over the next few days and weeks, because we are all agreed that there are many people in this world who do need the protection of the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re in the financial system\u2014I mean, we go back to the State, and internationally, we\u2019ve always tried to protect people. We can go back to the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944, which was a way to protect the world economies, countries, by imposing the gold standard, until, of course, Mr Siegmund Warburg sort of ruined that. We have the wild west of the financial world, which we see now, and other speakers have spoken about the global financial crisis (GFC). Well, the GFC, there was nothing really\u2014that\u2019s not what we\u2019re protecting against. I mean, don\u2019t forget that in the GFC, the products that dragged us all down had triple A ratings from international credit agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENo, the people need protection from the everyday advice. It\u2019s not really even protection from the troughs and it\u2019s not even from the highs and lows; it\u2019s from the everyday advice. I know from personal experience of people who got advice from the family lawyer or the family accountant. They were well-meaning. They weren\u2019t crooks. They just didn\u2019t really know what they were talking about and sent people off into investments, and it was those investments that cost families their money, as much as it was the big highs and lows of our GFCs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a very short call. At the risk of incurring the ire or the wrath of my whip\u2014I\u2019ve incurred the ire this week of several members of my party, so at this stage I will just say that this is a very good piece of legislation, and I look forward to this consensus continuing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u00223f14eb8ff46f4add8f26ab72a8e7f550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f14eb8ff46f4add8f26ab72a8e7f550\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, it\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269be21aa4894b64977676f60b50e26f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cded8fb409411181d7b7788795048b\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker\u2014my apologies. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It\u2019s easy to forget while we\u2019re here, and it is nice to hear the unanimity in this House for the support of this bill, because what happened in New Zealand was a whole lot of unsuspecting Kiwis\u2014mum and dad investors, as I refer to them, Mr Greg O\u2019Connor\u2014got ripped off, and $9 billion was lost in the sector during the global financial crisis. So this side of the House, when it was in Government, decided to do something about it, and I congratulate the current Government and the Hon Kris Faafoi for bringing this material back to the House for debate and consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a lot of very positive contributions this evening, and I think it was also reflected in the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014which I\u2019m lucky enough to have joined recently\u2014where we had 74 submitters who spoke to the select committee. Melissa Lee was absolutely accurate. We got an in-depth picture of what had been done, what was being recommended, and, actually, for the main, where we\u2019d end up now\u2014we\u2019ve got pretty much agreement across both sides of the select committee as to what needs to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThere are some new technologies out there which we need to protect New Zealanders from. We shouldn\u2019t be scared of them, but robo-advice and things like that are going to happen more and more. I\u2019d remind members of this House that even today, the purchase of life insurance, health insurance, contents insurance\u2014the amount of that that\u2019s now done online without the intervention of a single human being is actually a thing for the future, I believe. So in those sorts of industries and for further financial advice, we need to make sure that there are appropriate rules and regulations in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI specifically come to clauses in the bill which I think are very important. One is new section 431J(2) in clause 27, which is talking about the duty to give priority to a client\u2019s interests. We know how advice has often operated in New Zealand, whether it\u2019s financial advice or other financial products, and I acknowledge what Michael Wood said previously about work that\u2019s coming to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. But there is an area of risk in this space, and that is where a financial adviser seeks income and gains income from some financial products and not others, and then seeks to use those products in the advice. But this bill says that, actually, the client\u2019s interest is the first interest and their best interests should be at heart, and I think that we, as a select committee, understood that and supported that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EOne that still has some work\u2014and I\u2019ll be interested when this bill comes back to the committee stage\u2014is around nominated representatives, because what we need to be very careful of is that as financial advisers come in and out of institutions, where is the liability for that advice several years into the future? What we\u2019re basically saying, and what this bill says, is that there is an onus on the parent body of financial advisers in an organisation to take overall responsibility for that and for the advice of people that are working within that institution or organisation. The intent of the bill is that financial advisers should be ultimately responsible for their conduct and for their nominated representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EWe also looked at this whole question of lawyers and accountants, and there are lawyers and accountants in this House. We actually believed that if they were giving the advice as an ancillary to their core function, they should not be regulated. I support that provision, and I think we will get to that point. I think, though, it does become clear, and it will have to be worked on when we get to the committee stage, how the regulations, how the rules, and\u2014when the Minister is front of this House\u2014how some more of the detail of this will work out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe misuse of financial products and advice has cost a lot of New Zealanders a lot of money. In many other sectors it has happened, as well, and various things have gone wrong. It is the role of this Parliament and the people that are sitting here tonight and for future readings to make sure that we protect those people, and I\u2019m happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002249b753672f4b4fe1b162b722ba1904db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249b753672f4b4fe1b162b722ba1904db\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Assistant Speaker. I really just want to talk about one thing tonight, and that\u2019s what I think is probably the most important part of this bill, and that is new section 431J, inserted by clause 27, which really talks about conflicts of interest. Whilst sometimes the wrongs that are wrought upon investors are easy to see when something fails because they have been poorly represented, conflicts of interest can be somewhat more insidious. Many times, an investor won\u2019t know that the advice that they\u2019re receiving is being influenced by other things, whether it be by the soft commissions of a trip to Sydney or Fiji or whether it be by more concrete measures\u2014the 5 percent they get for churning investments from one provider to another. So can I commend the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the fine work it\u2019s done in strengthening in that provision not only the conflict of interest rules themselves but the identification of associated persons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EReally, all I want to say is I hope that as this comes to find its way through to codes of conduct and so on, and possibly through the courts, this is recognised as a key provision, one which should be expansively interpreted for the protection of investors. For that reason, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002282fb765303584467ae09ceb4a0068156\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282fb765303584467ae09ceb4a0068156\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Just as the member Duncan Webb was taking his brief call\u2014it was unfortunate, because I was just reviewing my notes and might seek some guidance from members in the House, because I didn\u2019t sit on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. But as success has many fathers, I was one of the progenitors of this bill in my time as commerce Minister. One of the things that really concerned me about this financial services legislation work was the code of conduct working group, which was a group which was working continuously with the development of the legislation in my time. I have to say, since I\u2019ve moved on to other portfolios, I don\u2019t know where that\u2019s gone, but it\u2019s a very important part of the development of this bill. It probably is not contained within this bill, but, certainly, a requirement to have a standard of conduct for financial advisers is an integral part, certainly of the philosophy of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThat financial advice code of conduct working group was talking widely with the financial advice sector over how to bring the sector together. There were a number of disparate groups providing financial advice in New Zealand. Some were highly regulated; some were completely unregulated, and we had an environment where financial advice was limited by the level of the label that you were given and the amount of training. For example, there would be people walking into trading banks looking for a bit of advice, perhaps on a term deposit or maybe something very simple like a KiwiSaver question, and the person behind the counter at the bank was unable to give them advice because they weren\u2019t qualified or allowed to do so under the previous Act\u2014the current Act, which is about to be amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThat has several impacts on citizens. First of all, they don\u2019t get the advice they\u2019re looking for. They might get the advice, but it\u2019s very limited to the expertise of the person giving that advice. But if that person walks away from the financial institution\u2014the trading bank, for example\u2014then that person will be somewhat disillusioned and confused about the advice that they may or may not have got, because it certainly wasn\u2019t fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the committee who have worked on this bill, and also the Minister Kris Faafoi, who has shepherded this piece of work into the House. I am pleased to see that this is, again, another piece of sensible legislation which is non-controversial because it makes sense, and it\u2019s good for just a while to have a bit of collegiality across the House for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo there will be a new regulatory regime for financial advice and for financial advisers in New Zealand. There will be a new regime and an amendment for registration on the Financial Service Providers Register to prevent its misuse. The bill is actually based on a review of the existing regulatory regime for financial advice, and that was started and completed back in 2016. So there have been a number of ministerial hands on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI also want to commend the officials from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) who, in my time and no doubt in Paul Goldsmith\u2019s time and, no doubt\u2014I believe, it\u2019s the same officials who have assisted the Minister in the Hon Kris Faafoi\u2019s time. I want to commend them. They are a good bunch of public servants who provided good, robust advice where it was needed, provided the expertise where it was needed and, when they didn\u2019t have the expertise themselves, were unafraid to go out and seek it and talk to people in the sector, because there was a very strong view in MBIE, supported by Ministers, that this is an important piece of work for the financial advice services regime in New Zealand. So just a note to advisers: I think you\u2019ve done a great job on this. Also the select committee, because I believe that they have considered this bill very carefully and have come up with a number of enhancements to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to say a few words about the provision of robo-advice. Even a year ago or 18 months ago, when I was sitting in the commerce chair, the talk of robo-advice was becoming louder and louder, and financial institutions were evaluating how they could be part of providing robo-advice. I had conversations with the Commerce Commission at the time, because, of course, it was not allowed under the current legislation, and, in fact, the Commerce Commission issued an exception to the rules in advance of this bill so that robo-advice could be taken up. The concerns I had\u2014it is exciting; let me just say. The provision of robo-advice is exciting for the financial services sector, not just for them but for people like myself and all of us who, from time to time, want to get a little bit of financial advice, which can be done by way of an algorithm, but be certain about its security and the effectiveness of that advice. For someone like me, it might be checking something to do with my KiwiSaver account, something to do with some banking operation I wish to do\u2014I don\u2019t know, should I turn over a term deposit, that sort of thing. Am I paying the right interest rate? The sky\u2019s the limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221484b15ade3a4235af3ef0eee52e564b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Get a loan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bcd47cd63444c9caf5b8c6dfe301d67\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, get a mortgage, get a loan. Robo-advice can extend across all areas of financial advice, and I would wager that the scope of that financial advice which is able to be provided in the future is not even known yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI was in Auckland at a Vodafone incubator programme a couple of weeks ago, and there were young innovative business people going through a wonderful business incubator at Vodafone in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b77a55991e7439a889cafdd58f09bc3\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c3ba28382249c1819d6e6fef8fac92\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Christchurch, sorry; Christchurch\u2014and I spoke to someone after the presentations had been made, and because he was an online IT specialist dealing in the financial world I asked him about robo-advice. I said, \u201CAre you contemplating doing that in your small start-up business?\u201D, and he said, \u201CWe\u2019re doing it. It\u2019s so exciting.\u201D This is what happens when you talk to young, entrepreneurial business people\u2014they get so excited about the opportunities that are being presented to them in innovating in the financial services sector. If this bill does nothing else, it will support small business in that way, in particular, small businesses, because it absolutely opens the door to be innovative and new in the provision of the services\u2014whatever their services are\u2014into the market. If we wish to remain competitive as a country in New Zealand, if we wish to continue to support small business, small to medium sized enterprises, business in general in New Zealand, there is one thing we have to do, and that\u2019s be able to innovate. That means through our banking systems, and that means through our financial services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb7ed4d810c40839b2c2072a9459684\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re putting in an R \u0026amp; D tax credit, which you guys never did. That\u2019s how you innovate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c3de3be447f4748aec3f54b490869ee\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go\u2014here we go. It\u2019s really disappointing, isn\u2019t it, that the Minister for Small Business chips in with a negative comment at this point. Oh dear! Oh dear! Bit all at sea over things, aren\u2019t we, because I\u2019m just describing the excitement of innovation, supporting small business\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282474bc7352a4a0186fc63c6282fc00d\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re just describing what you should\u2019ve done\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a86e7799ae44fc3a852bd375fb3223a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1275941fd854750836f3c6060652f64\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4d99a74ed9b42a0b9fbec1e682f2efb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Do not bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283de0099814548458cb615979c1647a4\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and here\u2019s the Minister for Small Business having a negative chip. Well that speaks volumes about this current Government\u2019s focus on supporting small business. Shame, shame, shame, Minister. We didn\u2019t think that one through, did we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe genesis of this legislation started a number of years ago. It has been well supported by the financial services sector as a whole, the banking sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea95e456d664222b6b5e9bcbbd1b781\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Nine long years and you did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc5c376fe344b85b586d220fb4608db\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the insurance sector, and now I am very pleased to see this next stage of this bill go through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea927df254b400bbcb66606e308f46e\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: They should\u2019ve put a businesswoman into the portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f56a2e70dde48469e8d75f8466378ef\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Members, just note that the Minister for Small Business is still chirping away like some dissatisfied little canary, because he\u2019s been caught out. He\u2019s been caught out in not supporting small business in New Zealand. So with those words, I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002211948e2453524afeb8664d100f630546\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211948e2453524afeb8664d100f630546\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to take a really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce3cf25a29743ab925d151fe84f3769\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226fab8c0ed7e4741a0f1d6fd3c5ffdec\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014quick call\u2014Madam Assistant Speaker, sorry\u2014on this piece of legislation, on the part that I think really aligns really well with what this Government stands for, which is the people\u2014the people. What this legislation is going to do is ensure that mum and dad consumers are going to get really good, clear, sound, quality financial advice. We know that that\u2019s really important, because often this is around things where people are looking to purchase a home, start a business, or to what to do for retirement, and I think it\u2019s really, really important that good quality, sound advice is given to people when making those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI also really like the fact that the legislation is going to allow people to have robo-advice rather than having advice from a natural person. I think that\u2019s going to make things more easily accessible as far as financial aspects go, because it will ensure that people that wouldn\u2019t ordinarily get financial advice are going to get it through robo-advice, and it will be a cheaper option for businesses also. I really commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ffdde1ce6e044c89e50ca957ee75783\u0022\u003EEducation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226067860ac2d34c03b6b7f01fbad98e31\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002289768ed229fb4f4797ddda2859e7dad2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289768ed229fb4f4797ddda2859e7dad2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Education Act 1989 and the Education Update Amendment Act of 2017. This bill is about backing our public school system, moving away from a system of a punitive and narrow approach to measuring a child\u2019s achievement, to one that is meaningfully measuring children\u2019s progress against the rich and diverse curriculum that we have in our school system, and restoring student and staff voices in the decision making on councils of tertiary education institutions, which the previous Government removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis bill will strengthen the quality of schooling education by removing national standards. National standards were neither national nor were they standard. They significantly increased the workload of teachers for no discernible gain for the young people who were in their classes. The evidence continued to mount up, making the case against national standards an easy one to make. This Government has listened to those with expertise and we have abolished national standards already. This bill removes them from the statute books.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe second major change that this bill implements is the removal of the charter school model from legislation, and supporting the transition of existing charter schools into the public education system. Nobody should be surprised by this. When the last Government decided to embark on their ideological charter school experiment, every other party in Parliament, except for the ACT Party and the M\u0101ori Party, indicated that they were opposed to that experiment. Labour, New Zealand First, the Greens, and I\u2019m pretty sure that United Future at the time, as well, made it clear that we did not want to see our public education system undermined in that way, and this bill gives effect to the commitment we made back then. We are removing the ideologically driven experiment of charter schools, and we are supporting those who are currently in charter schools to transition into the public education system, because we do not believe that they should be disadvantaged and penalised because of the last Government\u2019s ideological experiment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill also supports the integrity of the fees-free tertiary education commitment that the Government has made by creating a new offence for making a false representation in relation to an application for free tertiary education. This will significantly simplify the enrolment process and remove the need for people signing up for fees-free to do a statutory declaration. They will no longer need to go and find a justice of the peace to sign their application, because this process has been made that much simpler. It\u2019s a similar amendment to one that this House made recently, or within the last few years, around passports, where people no longer have to do statutory declarations in order to apply for a passport. It\u2019s a very sensible provision that will remove a lot of administrative burden and create much more convenience for those wishing to access their entitlement to free post-school education and training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill also restores guaranteed staff and student representation on the councils of tertiary education institutions. Let\u2019s go back and rewind to when the last Government removed that provision, and let\u2019s consider how well that\u2019s worked out for the governance of our tertiary institutions, as this Government has to bail them out to the tune of tens of millions of dollars because of poor governance decisions by some of those very same institutions. Would those decisions have been made had the staff and students who actually have a direct interest in those institutions been involved in the decision making and if they had had a voice at the table\u2014I don\u2019t think they necessarily would have. Yes, there are some big problems facing that sector as a whole, but there is no question that the governance model imposed by the last Government has failed spectacularly. We can significantly improve that by ensuring that the people with the most direct interest, the staff and the students who are absolutely committed to the success of their institutions, have a say in the governance of those very institutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill will also make some pragmatic changes to the new strategic planning and reporting framework for State and State-integrated schools and enable a smooth transition to the regime. The Education (Update) Amendment Act passed by the last Government made quite significant changes to the way our school governance planning processes work. That was something that the Labour Party component of the Government\u2014I can\u2019t remember how New Zealand First and the Greens voted\u2014supported, the intention of that, which was to have a statement of national education and learning priorities, and then to get schools to align their plans to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe supported the statement of national education and learning priorities, but the timing for doing that was so short that the Government wouldn\u2019t have been able to issue that and schools wouldn\u2019t have been able to consider that before they had to have their new strategic plans in place. So this bill buys some time so that we can get that right, so we can get a statement of national education and learning priorities that reflects the priorities of the nation when it comes to education, and so we can ensure that the transition from the existing regulatory regime is a smooth one. That amendment, for example, removed all of the National Education Guidelines and National Administration Guidelines that schools currently adhere to, and we\u2019ve got to make sure that the process of repealing those and replacing those is a smooth one and we\u2019re allowing the time to do that properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill also resolves errors and omissions in the Education Act of 1989 and the Education Update Amendment Act of 2017, to address minor technical issues in the Education Act of 1989. The Education and Workforce Committee deserves kudos for reporting this bill back to the House with some credible and sensible amendments. With regard to removing national standards and establishing the new offence provision, they recommended no amendments. With regard to the removal of the charter school model, they have made some technical changes in the bill, and the Government supports these changes. They have also adopted a Supplementary Order Paper put forward by the Government that responds to some of the concerns raised by the charter schools in their transition into the public education system, including their desire to ensure that their designated character is preserved, and we have made provisions to ensure that. Also we have made sensible changes around the transitional provisions for staffing, consistent to transitional provisions that have been made in other parts of Government policy where there has been a transition from one form of entity to another. They are very sensible amendments that have been put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe committee has also made some sensible amendment suggestions to tertiary education institution governance, including ensuring that the process for selecting staff and student representation is a fair and robust one and is consistent with the overall intent of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis is the first major step, or one of the major steps, in fulfilling several Government election commitments for education. It removes national standards\u2014commitment delivered. It removes the charter school model\u2014commitment delivered. It restores the right of staff and students to have their representation on tertiary councils reinstated\u2014commitment delivered. And it signals a move towards a system of reporting that provides a far richer and more comprehensive picture of student progress against the curriculum and removes national standards\u2014commitments delivered. This bill is a sign of a Government that is getting on with the job of delivering on the commitments that we made to New Zealand of ensuring we\u2019ve got a robust, quality public education system that serves all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00222429ab1217f949d48bc0e9ba10be2cf1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222429ab1217f949d48bc0e9ba10be2cf1\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It is actually with real sadness that I rise to take this call on the Education Amendment Bill. One of the reasons that I got into politics, and the reason that I am still a politician, is that it is ultimately about what Jo Luxton said before: he tangata, he tangata, he tangata\u2014it is about the people. So to be standing in this House and realising that this legislation will go through and it will be harmful not only to a group of young people who have had complex needs and who have had pretty disadvantaged backgrounds, who will not get the opportunity to attend a partnership school in the future, but also to a group of parents, of which 87 percent in a poll on Stuff said they did not support the removal of national standards, who will no longer have the same level of confidence around how their children are doing at school\u2014that does make me sad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAgain, what our party on this side of the House stands for, absolutely resolutely, is high standards in education. In order to have high standards in education, we do believe in lifting achievement. In order to lift achievement, we have to have accountability back to the centre in terms of the Ministry of Education. What the removal of national standards by the Minister of Education, overnight, effectively, late last year\u2014and now this bill condemns the final remnants of national standards\u2014does is it, effectively, gets rid of the ability to have that nationwide picture of achievement and actually ensure that parents have confidence around that information. It also reduces the ability of us to help disadvantaged children, because we do not have the ability now to target our schools in terms of numeracy and literacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ECan I take a moment to acknowledge you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you for your contribution in bringing in national standards. It is a sad day, I am sure\u2014and you cannot say this from the Chair\u2014to see this happening in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe second thing about this bill\u2014again, in line with the removal of accountability and the removal of the ability of the Crown to help teachers and parents lift achievement\u2014is the removal of partnership schools. Many New Zealanders have approached my office. They have been there online. They have gone on and supported students like Parris Bryant and asked the basic question: why? Why is this happening? Why is this Parliament passing a bill that would remove a model that has helped so many disadvantaged students? Why? Labour did not campaign that they were definitely going to get rid of partnership schools. We know for a fact that we had Kelvin Davis out there, who is now still the deputy leader of the Labour Party, saying that he would resign if, effectively, partnership schools closed. That has not occurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe had Willie Jackson\u2014in fact, perhaps I should quote what Willie Jackson actually said at the time in terms of partnership schools. He said, and I will take his quote, \u201CI truly believe in the partnership school model.\u201D Well, there are a whole lot of other New Zealanders that believe in this model: the parents of Parris Bryant, the people that I will name now who set up these schools\u2014Alwyn Poole, Karen Poole, Raewyn T\u012Bpene, Nick Hyde. There are some incredible New Zealanders who have put their heart and soul into this model, and it is delivering results. People like Sir Toby Curtis came to the Education and Workforce Committee and they pleaded to the Prime Minister, \u201CPlease show some aroha. Please listen to us.\u201D They went so far\u2014Lance O\u2019Sullivan, Dame Iritana, Dame Tariana, Pem Bird, Sir Toby Curtis. These are the giants of education, and they said, \u201CPlease stop this.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThey went further. They went to the Waitangi Tribunal. They lodged a claim, and they said, \u201CPlease, please listen to us.\u201D But the Government didn\u2019t listen. Not only did the Government not listen; it denied that a formal claim had been lodged. The Minister has now admitted that error, but they issued a press release in the last 24 hours pleading to the Prime Minister, \u201CPlease intervene. You\u2019ve, effectively, terminated the contracts of these schools, but why? Why do you have to pass a law to remove the model when we have a Waitangi Tribunal claim live?\u201D All they want to do is sit down and have a discussion about how these schools have helped M\u0101ori and Pasifika students in particular. But, no, the Government is pushing this through. That, for me, really sums up some of the education agenda. We on this side of the House\u2014I meet with parents and teachers all across New Zealand\u2014want to work in good faith in terms of the education agenda, but it is really, really hard when we see ideological decisions like this around national standards and partnership schools being pushed through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to come back to national standards, because it does cut to the heart of the right of parents in our education system. You know, what parents say to me\u2014and we actually put through a decision last year to say we would enhance national standards and move to a system of progress reporting\u2014is they basically want to know how their children are doing in some core areas. We passed that decision, but we accepted that actually it would take a couple of years to design the tools and to support schools to make that change. But instead we saw, late last year, national standards, via the National Administration Guidelines, changed and now this legislation being pushed through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat that means to the parents that write to me is that if they don\u2019t have confidence in the achievement, there is no ability of the Crown at an individual school level to get that benchmark of nationwide achievement. It has massively reduced the ability of the Crown to, as well, target, and that is why we absolutely oppose this bill and will be putting a number of amendments through in the committee stage of this bill, to demonstrate to New Zealanders why we believe, actually, that teachers and principals should be accountable and that we should provide information back to the centre around achievement. We make absolutely no bones about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge that in the bill, there are provisions there around statutory declarations and fees-free, and I know that my colleague Simeon Brown will talk to that. There are provisions around improving reporting in our schools, and, of course, National supports that, but we are opposing this legislation, and we are absolutely gutted about the process. I want to talk briefly about that, because we accept that Governments come into power and they do make decisions. Even if they don\u2019t have the support of a whole lot of parents\u201487 percent on a Stuff online poll said that they wanted to keep national standards\u2014even if these partnerships schools are going well, we accept that they have the right to scrap these partnership schools. But what I can\u2019t accept is the atrocious process that has happened around this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Mark Patterson. I want to acknowledge the New Zealand First Party for supporting National when we went to the Business Committee and we said, \u201CPlease, we\u2019ve had amendments that affect these schools and people\u2019s individual lives. Please just let us go and have a decent consultation on that.\u201D New Zealand First supported us in that letter to the Business Committee, and I want to acknowledge them for that, but I also want to acknowledge that we nearly ended up having this debate at a time when the select committee was going to be in Auckland. So it is really good to acknowledge that my colleagues have now been able to come back from Auckland to be here and participate in this incredibly important debate. That would not have been the case unless we, effectively, had filibustered the bill last night, and the Leader of the House, I acknowledge, then accepted that, actually, to not have the permanent members of the Education and Workforce Committee speaking in this debate would be a very bad thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo, finally, I do want to just leave this call in this debate with some of the memories that I have now from visiting partnership schools and meeting those children. I have not really protested as a member of Parliament, and I did. I walked down Queen Street with these children, and you know what a number of them said to me? They said to me, \u201CMany people in my life have let me down, and I can\u2019t believe that this Government would be scrapping our schools, which have been the one thing in our lives that have been really positive. We don\u2019t understand that.\u201D And I said to them, \u201CLook, there is hope. There will be a National Government in the future, and we will bring those partnership schools back, and we will expand those schools, and we will also ensure that there is accountability around achievement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f484e9b1735b4d34a62fa98ec0758750\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f484e9b1735b4d34a62fa98ec0758750\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Jenny Salesa. Before I do, could I just ask Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick not to stand in the aisles over here, please. And the noise over here was pretty tough when someone\u2019s speaking in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002206122d98a49644d880d2c1446ca4d19f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206122d98a49644d880d2c1446ca4d19f\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Education): \u003C/span\u003EKia ora i Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. Kia kaha Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E[Greetings in M\u0101ori Language Week. Make the language strong.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI rise in strong support of the Education Amendment Bill. This is a bill that we\u2019re bringing into Government, and it is a policy that we have, for many years, been very, very clear about. We came in saying that we will get rid of partnership schools and charter schools, and that is one of the things that this legislation will do. I\u2019d like to thank the chair and the members of the Education and Workforce Committee for the work that they\u2019ve done. I\u2019d also like to thank all of our parents, our teachers, our educators, and our organisations that came to present and to tell us their views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn addressing the Hon Nikki Kaye, when she said \u201CWhy are we doing this?\u201D, we\u2019re listening to our teachers, we\u2019re listening to our educators. So many of the teachers I talked to in South Auckland have told us they would like to get rid of partnership schools. I come from an electorate that has, and that serves, a lot of Pacific and M\u0101ori students, students the partnership school model is supposedly addressing. But can I refer to the submissions that were made; these are in the words of those submitters. They said they are supporting the removal of partnership schools because partnership schools failed to bring about significant improvement to academic performance. They\u2019re supporting it because students with learning support needs and disabilities are not well served by this model. They said they\u2019re supporting it because the model was not well designed, and it was having a negative effect on the State system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI strongly support this bill, and I\u2019m very happy that we\u2019re bringing the Education Amendment Bill forward. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022eea396d1becf4edbb0d7059377b9a20a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eea396d1becf4edbb0d7059377b9a20a\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Education Amendment Bill, in opposition to the Education Amendment Bill. I think this bill could be put into three themes: a lack of accountability, complete ideology, and a rushed and sham of a process. I will be touching on four of the key themes of this bill in my speech: firstly, on partnership schools; secondly, on national standards; thirdly, on the Institutes of Technology and Polytechnics of New Zealand; and, lastly, on to the fees-free policies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWhat we see in this Government is one of the most ideological Governments that New Zealand has ever seen, and the most ideological Minister of Education that New Zealand has seen. He spoke of pragmatic changes in his speech, but there are no pragmatic changes in this bill. He spoke of resolving errors and omissions in the Education Act, but all that this bill puts into the Education Act will be errors and omissions. We just heard from the Hon Jenny Salesa, who just sat down, who said that Labour has been very clear about its opposition to partnership schools. We\u2019ll touch on that soon, and we\u2019ll hear a few comments from Willie Jackson and Peeni Henare and hear exactly what they do have to say about partnership schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EShe then said that she thanked all of the submitters who came and submitted to the process. Well, I\u2019ve got news for the Labour Party: the majority of those who submitted on partnership schools submitted against repealing partnership schools and closing those schools down. So I think those facts need to be put on the table and on the record for all New Zealanders and all of those listening, to understand the facts of what we are debating here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EFirstly, this bill removes partnership schools and removes the partnership school model. The Minister might be trying to say, \u201CWell, we\u2019ve managed to move these schools and they\u2019re going to remain open and we\u2019re going to keep them going.\u201D But there are key differences in the partnership model to the special designated model that he has moved them to. What he is doing is putting ideology above kindness, ideology above caring, and ideology above the 1,500 young people whose lives are being changed and whose lives are being impacted positively by these schools. One only needs to go so far as to go and visit one of these schools and you will see the difference that they are making in the lives of the young people who are being taught at these schools. I challenge the Minister and I challenge the Labour Party members to go and visit these schools and see what they are doing, the impact that they are having, and the results that they are having on some of our most disadvantaged communities, on some of the communities that they represent on that side of the House. Young people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20e0874a47c41768770da8254360660\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Not any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f6daa63f7140f18cd03c4fc5033322\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they don\u2019t represent them. That\u2019s the problem, as Erica Stanford rightly points out. They don\u2019t represent them, because if they truly represented those young people, they wouldn\u2019t be down here in the House clapping their hands and closing these schools on a Wednesday evening. So this is a bill that drives to the heart of the ideological difference between what National believes and what Labour believes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f10cde3eee4780a9dfe72a34dbf6c5\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205874e92af43481e82b958b5caa71ea8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Labour and the Green Party\u2014thank you, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2014and New Zealand First believe that the Government knows best. The State knows best. We believe that there are people who can choose and their parents can choose how they believe their children should be educated and that there are other ways in which education models can work, and that outcomes are more important than the model that the Government dictates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo National is strongly opposed to removing the partnership model and will, when we\u2019re back in Government, be putting this model back in place. That will only be two years away, at most, because we know what a shambolic Government this is on the other side of the House and how disorganised, disunited, and shambolic that they are. We\u2019ll be back in Government very soon, and we\u2019ll get our education system back on track when the most ideological Minister of Education, Chris Hipkins, will be kicked out of his office and will probably also lose the seat of Rimutaka. So back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe second point that I\u2019d like to talk about is the removal of national standards. Again, we go back to the fact that this is about removing accountability. It is about ideology above what matters for parents and what matters for children. We have to remember what national standards do. They provide a nationwide picture of achievement and they allow parents to know how their child is doing. We don\u2019t want to go back to the bad old days when parents didn\u2019t know what their child was doing and they were given some report that kind of said this or kind of said that. What parents want to know was how their child is doing, how their child is achieving, and how they can support their child in their educational journey. This legislation takes away that ability for parents to be part of that process, because of the ideologically driven nature of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe have to remember who is behind this bill and we have to remember the support that this Government gets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022571c5ba39a3843a5a07df3a8c6852342\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t say it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0d057ebaad648a588037bc843051a35\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from its unions and its union friends. I know that Tracey Martin is counting how many times I\u2019m going to mention the word \u201Cunion\u201D, but it\u2019s the union friends who support the Government on the other side of the House and who are adamant in their support of making sure that they get some\u2014I wouldn\u2019t use the word \u201Cpayback\u201D, because I used that yesterday and I got into trouble for it, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46332487fad4d1bb73207a8d9c1dedf\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If I\u2019m not mistaken, Speaker\u2019s ruling 52/1 prevents members from trying the little trick that was tried just then: saying \u201CI won\u2019t say something but \u2026\u201D, which has just been evident there, and I would ask, Madam Deputy Speaker, that you reflect on that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636f9b75378647928fc096fd2d48ddde\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t need to reflect on it. I was already glaring at the speaker who knew jolly well that he had transgressed. I don\u2019t need the help; however, it\u2019s nice to know that you have been reading the Speakers\u2019 Rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216ed4b57214a463d9b04e597ce07a169\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s very good. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThese changes are supported by the unions, but parents know what is needed, parents know what they need to know about their children, and parents will be voting for National to be back so that we can bring back into law standards and bring into law the opportunity for accountability in the education sector. I can\u2019t wait for the next election once more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThirdly, I\u2019d like to touch on the changes that this bill makes to the governance structure of our universities and polytechs. Again, this is about removing accountability and weakening the governance of the structure. It\u2019s putting in place student voices and teacher voices around the governance tables and the councils. What we know is that these bodies are governance bodies; they require governance skills. But the changes that this bill makes are that those who are elected by the students or by the staff will be deemed to have the knowledge and skills and experience that those who would be appointed by the Minister have. It is essentially a weakening in the governance and structure of our universities and our polytechs. It is about weakening the governance of these institutions, and it is about weakening our education institutions further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe last point I\u2019d like to touch on is around the fees-free changes. We know on this side of the House that the fees-free policy has been a $2.8 billion policy that has achieved no increase in enrolments in our university and tertiary institution sector. It is $2.8 billion that they have poured in without any impact on enrolments or any impact on the number of students going to university and studying. But what this legislation does\u2014and we know the process was put in very quickly. They got elected and then they had to put the process in. Now what they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re putting a $5,000 fine in place if you make a false declaration that you haven\u2019t studied before\u2014$5,000. That\u2019s all it is. A $5,000 fine if you\u2019re caught. And it\u2019s not a statutory declaration, it\u2019s just an ordinary declaration, so it\u2019s a lower standard. It\u2019s not the same standard that most people have to do for many other things that they go and get Government services for and get a statutory declaration, which they have to have witnessed. This is a lower form of declaration, and that is what this bill has put in place. It\u2019s almost a year late. The fees-free policy started at the beginning of this year and now we\u2019re discussing the second reading of the Education Amendment Bill, which puts in place a scheme. Will they be going back and checking on all of the students who enrolled at the beginning of this year to ensure that they actually qualify for free fees? We\u2019ll be asking these questions in the committee stage. We\u2019ll be bringing some Supplementary Order Papers through to clarify what is meant by this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019d like to go back and touch on partnership schools and the partnership school model. We know that on the other side of the House they\u2019re not united in their opposition to partnership schools. We know that they\u2019re not united in their opposition to partnership schools, because we know from what we\u2019ve heard from Willie Jackson and Peeni Henare. Peeni Henare said the bottom line is \u201CWhy would you stop something that is working?\u201D That\u2019s the question that the other side need to answer: why do you stop something that is working? That\u2019s not said by me; that\u2019s said by one of their own. They need to answer that question here in the House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EMy challenge to them is show me some evidence. Show me why they believe that partnership schools should be closed and how they are failing our schools, because they are not. The evidence is clear. They\u2019re making a huge difference in the lives of many of our most disadvantaged young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3415d7aff7b477386a86dc9c19f9df5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3415d7aff7b477386a86dc9c19f9df5\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I want to take these first moments and probably the only moments of my contribution to actually talk directly to\u2014directly to\u2014the parents and the students of the charter schools here in New Zealand. Your schools will all be open again at the beginning of next year. Do not listen to the scaremongering and the politicising of your children by the National Party in an attempt to try and convince you that your children will not be able to walk into their schools again next year. But what I can guarantee you of is that they will have registered and qualified teachers in front of every classroom. What I guarantee you of is that the Minister of Education has made sure that the Ministry of Education has looked at the property some of your children have been taking their lessons in, and we will not allow them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365d818d54ac47ce92dde95fc352a4e4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t bring me into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b33f6db4f645cf8757679184e88639\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon, Madam Deputy Speaker. We will not allow the children that have been in of some of those partnership schools to stay in those substandard conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd14f8d6af14549ad5e7ec74df75eab\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: You know better than their parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdb5bc4ddf9e4667b11ac696a9ab3713\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Willis, you wouldn\u2019t put your children in them. Ms Willis, some of us wouldn\u2019t put our dog in them. But we will make sure that those children are inside a property that is of an adequate standard. The Opposition challenges this side to visit those schools. I have visited several of those schools\u2014I have visited several of those schools. So it\u2019s interesting that they haven\u2019t visited the schools with substandard property\u2014that they stand there and are quite happy for those children to be taught by unqualified, unregistered teachers in property that we wouldn\u2019t put dogs in. But, no, no, they are prepared to use those families and those children for political gain. And to suggest that this is an ideological movement! I sat on the select committee with Ms Kaye, who couldn\u2019t even pass the changes to the legislation they required by majority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd748139589941cb9c12470923538b2b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We all have a duty not to bring this House into disrepute. I\u2019d put it to you that suggesting that parents of New Zealand children have been treating those children worse than dogs in their educational choices is actually going to bring this House into disrepute, and the member should apologise and withdraw for that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243e04df2c862433d9199b82f76396f7a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I understand that feelings run quite strongly on this debate. There has been some robust debate and I think I\u2019ll ask the Hon Tracey Martin to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299c37208ed04488bb6e1b30d7516686c\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Can I clarify\u2014I appreciate the member\u2019s statement. If he\u2019d like to go back and check the Hansard, he would see that I accused the National Party of deciding that they were quite happy for children to work and be educated in those circumstances. I\u2019d be really interested to know whether they\u2019re\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a48db13d3e704b9e998115fa8e8c6ed4\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb2d4659f2d482385b05b5c1969551d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member again\u2014the Hon Nikki Kaye.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223683f8344ac94ccdafd703bc3f93b3dd\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that the Minister was attempting to clarify, but actually I believe that she made it worse when she, effectively, accused the National Party of believing that a situation would be OK to treat children as dogs. That is absolutely appalling and disgusting. I want the Minister to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3fbd44a7cfa4a219853baaa9353a432\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a debatable point. Quite frankly I\u2019ve heard much worse accusations in this House. I think you\u2019re being a bit sensitive. The Minister can say what she thinks and people will judge her on that. I call the Hon Tracey Martin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e205820282094e24a4bba86097a6b8a0\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: All right, let\u2019s move on so that we move away from the sensitivity of the National Party about what they allowed these children to be in, shall we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go to the conversation that said that there was no way to measure the achievement of children before the former National Government had an epiphany about national standards. So let\u2019s talk about stanines. Let\u2019s talk about the bell curve. Let\u2019s talk about the two-year progressions inside the back of the national curriculum. The problem with the contribution from the National Party is the fact that they wouldn\u2019t know education if it jumped up and bit them. That\u2019s the problem that has been going on here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI had a conversation with Mr David Seymour way before he was a member of this Parliament, way before he was an MP, where he articulated at the K\u014Dwhai Festival\u2014in the middle of the road\u2014how he was going to make sure that this country had charter schools. So for that party to decide that this was ideologically driven after that young man spent six months inside some sort of brains trust in the middle of Canada is unbelievable at this time. The fact that that party at the select committee when they created charter schools couldn\u2019t even get it through without a majority vote from New Zealand First, who was the only party that decided that we would have the Ombudsman make sure that when you kicked a kid out of a charter school that you had to be accountable to the Ombudsman. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209bb61689cde4e2ca7a15a4d2ee0e3bb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Mark Mitchell\u2014it\u2019s a barrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213173b8745d44033ab2e508eb971cd6d\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I will tell you that at the alternative education providers forum the other day, they told me how many children had been kicked out of charter schools that they were dealing with because there was no accountability by those charter schools. We fully support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u00225b82fd4eb1644fb9bd74fac73e589165\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b82fd4eb1644fb9bd74fac73e589165\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Kei te whakanuia te kaupapa o ng\u0101 kura hourua. Kei te mihi t\u0113nei kaimahi m\u014D ng\u0101 tamariki, tauira M\u0101ori, ng\u0101 tamariki tauira Pasifika, ng\u0101 tamariki katoa o ng\u0101 kura hourua, \u0113nei kura ng\u0101 k\u0101kano o te ao hou, te ao m\u0101tauranga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E[I would like to celebrate charter schools. This worker would like to acknowledge the children, M\u0101ori students, Pasifika students, and all the young people of charter schools, these schools that sow the seeds of education in the modern age.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EI celebrate Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. It is a special week, and it\u2019s also a real privilege to talk tonight in regards to partnership schools. What I just did there in my mihi was refer to partnership schools as the seeds of the new world: the world of learning and the world of knowledge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s actually quite fitting that in Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori we reference the importance of partnership schools to the M\u0101ori and, of course, to the Pasifika community and to all children, as I did in my mihi. I want to focus on the human side. It\u2019s always about the human side. That\u2019s our role. That\u2019s what we are here for. I couldn\u2019t be any more clearer, we couldn\u2019t be any more clearer here, that the Government has not fully understood the impact that partnership schools have had on individual lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s fitting tonight that I read a submission, and that submission is from a parent of Middle School West Auckland. Here\u2019s what it says: \u201CMy daughter started going there after several attempts to stop the bullying in her school. My daughter\u2019s schooling went down, and she ended up having her lunch in the toilets so she would not be picked on. Middle School West Auckland has made a huge difference to her schooling and confidence. My daughter has found her voice, her place in society, and is learning so much that she is asking for more challenges. The model used in this works for her and many other children similar to her. Most of these children would have been classed as truants and deviants by society, but they are all talented and smart children who needed another way to bring it out of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EAs a strong Labour supporter, I have always believed that Labour supported difference, individualism, experiences, and thinking outside of the box. Let these charter schools continue in their work, and allow the children, who are mainly in poverty and disadvantage, have another chance of not ending up another statistic in the criminal and social system. Even though it is an hour trip for us outside our route to work, and paying for bus and ferry for their return, I would do it again. Talk to the children. Remove the fact that it is a National initiative. My daughter is a strong w\u0101hine who needs to be uplifted and empowered, not to be told that her education is wrong and pointless. Let the children have a chance, please.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThose words say it better than I ever could. There\u2019s a reason why people have rallied behind these schools and communities have actually grown around these schools. It\u2019s because they recognise the positive and life-changing, amazing impact that these schools have on individual children and their families. They want these schools to stay. They have been very loud, clear, and vocal on that. Calls for compassion, literally, have been ignored. The Treaty of Waitangi claim is being lodged. As a select committee, we listened to Toby Curtis, Dame Tariana Turia, and a massive number of other senior M\u0101ori leaders, yet the Minister fails to recognise the gravity of this situation. He continues to unabashedly remove the schools; on what\u2014the basis of pure ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EI received a letter today from those leaders\u2014those same M\u0101ori leaders, as I know every other member in this House did. Every single MP received the same letter where those senior M\u0101ori leaders appealed directly to the Prime Minister to reconsider these changes. Despite what Tracey Martin has said tonight in the House, there are still calls today for an appeal against these changes. The letter says that by removing partnership schools, the actions of the Government are compelling them to return to a system that\u2019s been \u201Cfailing our tamariki for 178 years.\u201D They do not want a return to that system. They only ask for the most basic consideration. What\u2019s that? That the Prime Minister actually visit the schools so that she can see and understand for herself why they\u2019ve achieved so much. They ask that affected students, parents, wh\u0101nau, and communities are consulted with before any further changes\u2014that\u2019s reasonable. And they\u2019ve asked, first and foremost, for a commitment to the principles of the partnership from the Treaty of Waitangi. What they\u2019re doing is simply asking the Government to wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThey acknowledge that we\u2019ve come in the process up to this point tonight, and they\u2019re asking the Government to wait\u2014wait until the Waitangi Tribunal has made findings on what has been, we all know, a massively flawed process. That\u2019s the least that the Government could do. The least the Government could do is to make sure that\u2014and this is another quote; the final words in that letter to the Prime Minister\u2014\u201Cjustice and fairness prevail.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ENow, I want to pick up on something that Tracey Martin said earlier. She\u2019s laying the claim that students will get over the summer break and return to school just as they had it before. No, they won\u2019t, because it\u2019s not a partnership school model any more. Tonight and the continuation of this debate, which will probably be next week, is closure. So they might get over the summer break and go to school, but it\u2019s not going to be the same school that they were in. That\u2019s a definitive fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWhat they don\u2019t have is flexible funding and flexible governance arrangements\u2014the things that they\u2019re asking for and they\u2019ve been wanting to keep the same. They don\u2019t have that assurance. They\u2019ll be coming back from the summer break to a different school. That is a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EI also want to touch, in my last few moments of time, on what is\u2014and the letter refers to this\u2014a flawed process. It is quite unbelievable the process that some of these partnership schools had to go through to get to the point where they are today: massive moments of uncertainty and letters back and forth from the Ministry of Education. They did not know whether they were up or down, starting or closing; all they knew was that they had been placed into huge uncertainty and didn\u2019t know whether they\u2019d have a school to go to after the summer break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThe Minister also left our committee hanging, and I take personal exception to that. It\u2019s actually fascinating that I\u2019m standing here, along with my other colleagues from the Education and Workforce Committee, because, as of yesterday, we didn\u2019t know that we would be debating this bill. This is a massive, massive seismic shift in the education system, and, instead of certainty for us to be able to debate this, we were possibly\u2014well, we actually didn\u2019t end up going\u2014going up to Auckland for our Education and Workforce Committee on another topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s right and it\u2019s fitting and interesting that the Minister of Education\u2014who also wears another hat as the Leader of the House\u2014saw fit to do the right thing, and here we are tonight. My heartfelt plea is that the Government continue to see the human side of what they\u2019re doing and to pay very close attention to that letter that has gone to the Prime Minister and to all of us: pleading for a pause, pleading for the opportunity to hear through and see through that Waitangi Tribunal process, and to do right by mokopuna all around this country. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I look forward to hearing that the Government will do the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022a97b4cf030964403880b7499b67d35f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a97b4cf030964403880b7499b67d35f6\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mangai. T\u0113na koutou e Te Whare. I\u2019d like to rise to tautoko the final point of Denise Lee and to affirm that the Government will indeed be doing the right thing. So I rise to do the right thing in support of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAs has been well canvassed by my colleagues in Government, this legislation does a number of things\u2014not the least, removing charter schools and national standards. But the point that I want to raise tonight in this short call is that, whilst the Greens are in support of these changes, as presented quite fulsomely in the select committee report back\u2014and it\u2019s not worth reiterating those points\u2014what I want to touch on is the issue of tertiary council representation, as was brought into this debate by one Simeon Brown. He actually did so in a very disparaging manner, speaking to the involvement of staff and students around the decision-making table, disparaging their skills and expertise as though their lived experience and perspective were not important around that decision-making table. Mr Simeon Brown, if that is the elitist attitude that you have towards democracy, if it is good enough for us, why is it not good enough for the governance of tertiary institutions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, on that point, the Supplementary Order Paper in my name, which I\u2019ll flesh out more broadly in the committee of the whole House stage of this bill, reflects the submissions\u2014the 481 submissions\u2014on the issues of staff and student representation around those tertiary institution councils. Four hundred and fifty-one of those submissions supported guaranteed places for elected staff and students, but 421 of them\u2014that is, 87.5 percent\u2014commented that tertiary education institutions should have more than one staff or student rep, and that is exactly what the Greens are standing for tonight as well as being in support of this bill, and we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0e171326d6455a9441048ce424acfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0e171326d6455a9441048ce424acfb\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. Tonight is a great night for some people. It\u2019s a great night for the education unions, but it\u2019s a very sad one for parents, caregivers, and those of our young people who are most at risk. It is a great night for the \u201CWe Know Best Brigade\u201D in the Labour Party caucus\u2014and there are plenty of them, and they have felt that way for a very long time. They have asserted that opinion sometimes in quite a pious fashion while they\u2019ve been in Opposition, and yet even they couldn\u2019t quite believe when they cobbled together a Government that suddenly they had the numbers to do something that, actually, the public of New Zealand has not requested. [Interruption] So it\u2019s a great night for those people, but, at the same time, it is a very sad night for those who live\u2014and I hope the members opposite, instead of chirping away to each other, will instead sit back and reflect on this, because they claim to represent these people in the Parliament, and they lecture us frequently about the needs of these people. But this tonight is a very sad night for those in our small, less advantaged communities, where the benefits of educational choice and opportunity are so vitally needed\u2014most vitally needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EA successful education is the greatest gift that our society can offer those children and those communities. And it is a great night for those who believe that all children should be educated in a one-size-fits-all model of State education, but it\u2019s an incredibly sad night for those whose children and tamariki have always struggled in that environment, and who have the evidence to back their belief that a range of options work better and provide hope and real opportunity to communities, wh\u0101nau, and children where and when alternative models and systems can be life-changing and successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI ask all members who are present in the House tonight: which deprived community of New Zealand will be improved by the demise of the kura hourua model partnership schools? Silence\u2014no one opposite can tell me a single community in New Zealand that will be improved by the demise of the partnership school model, and yet tonight they are determined to put one more nail in their coffin. I ask members: which young person who previously fell through the cracks and was destined to become another juvenile delinquent statistic will be better off by the demise of the partnership school that, for the first time in his or her young life, inspired, motivated, and encouraged them to achieve; to discover their talents and potential; to gain hope, self-esteem, and purpose in the process, because that\u2019s what they offer? And what is the answer opposite again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50661163fc04169aa0bfe4834d96884\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0584dd000f43ae82e4b0a3aa82aa14\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: None, as Mr Bidois has said; a deafening silence from the members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAnd yet for ideological reasons, to appease a certain faction in the education union movement, they carry on in this way, determined to ignore the evidence, determined not to listen to the submissions of those who came to the select committee\u2014not just at the time that this bill was being considered but at the time that the partnership school model was first introduced. I acknowledge the ACT Party; it\u2019s good to see David Seymour here tonight. And his predecessors\u2014I want to acknowledge Catherine Isaac, who was such an impressive submitter when I was on the select committee several years ago, who brought the evidence to show that this was a model that could work where no others have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo this is a tragic night for those young people, for those who work with them, for those who care for them and, by extension, for all of our communities who will be the poorer and who will pay the price for their demise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EEarlier, at the start of this second reading, the Minister focused on three issues. He commenced by talking about the removal of national standards, and he used his clich\u00E9 that I\u2019ve heard him utter so many times\u2014that they were neither national nor standard. Well, how trite, and how completely that misses the point. Now, this Government ignores the fact that national standards may not have been a panacea, may not have been a cure-all for problems, but they provided vital evidence, in a timely fashion, for families and caregivers who needed that, and for schools who could use that to inform their decisions and to enable them to target resources to best effect\u2014to enable young children, in particular, to gain remedial attention if they were falling behind in those building blocks of a solid education: literacy and numeracy. Without that achievement at an early age, a young person is almost certain to fail as he or she progresses through to intermediate and secondary education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264db3fbf82c6431aac27cf94aa56c327\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: So where was the investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b955460a8f94e49a1e58ced794a9c80\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: As a former secondary educator\u2014I say this to Ms Swarbrick\u2014I have seen over and over again how vital it is for young people to have those building blocks cemented at an early age. And I don\u2019t claim for one moment that national standards guaranteed them, but it certainly gave the information that was required to inform necessary intervention when it became apparent that those young people were missing out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Hon Nikki Kaye, in her excellent speech, quoted from the poll that showed a huge number\u2014tens of thousands of New Zealanders\u2014had been asked for their opinion, and overwhelmingly they said, \u201CRetain national standards. Don\u2019t get rid of them.\u201D The evidence is there that they are a useful tool in the tool kit for our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Minister went on to talk about the disestablishment of partnership schools, that he seems to be so delighted about. I\u2019ve already mentioned my thoughts about that, and I simply reiterate what a travesty of a policy and a tragedy it is for the vulnerable children who are being cast aside to appease the unions in a failed one-size-fits-all model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI think all MPs have received the open letter from Sir Toby Curtis, the Hon Dame Tariana Turia, Dame Iritana T\u0101whiwhirangi, and Pem Bird\u2014a very highly respected educator from close to your region, Madam Deputy Speaker. These are people who would not normally be expected to endorse a National Party position or an ACT Party position on education, but they do so\u2014not because it\u2019s National or ACT policy, but because it is successful policy. It is sound pedagogy. It is evidence of something that works. In their letter\u2014and they write in an impassioned way to the Prime Minister\u2014they say, \u201CWe know, and we believe you would share our view if you looked carefully at the evidence, that these schools are delivering results that are significantly better than they could ever have achieved in the State-run system. Your Government\u201D\u2014they say to the Prime Minister\u2014\u201Cis now compelling them to return to that system, the one that has been failing our tamariki for 178 years. The \u2018designated character\u2019 model sounds attractive but has none of the key drivers that have made our schools so successful.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe authors of this letter plead with the Prime Minister and with her Ministers to visit those schools and see and understand for themselves what has enabled them to achieve so much. I have been to one. I know many of my colleagues on this side of the House have been, in some cases, to several. I was so impressed by the character, by the ethos, by the respect, by the sense of purpose, by what was being achieved. Why on earth would any compassionate, realistic person want to get rid of such an effective model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe authors of the letter concluded by saying, \u201CPrime Minister, we ask you to intervene unequivocally this week to stop the destruction of the kura hourua model and ensure that justice and fairness prevail.\u201D I think every fair-minded New Zealander would echo that plea. Here we have a Government that is more interested in the governance of tertiary institutions, bowing again to union pressure, than they are to listening to parents and those who work so closely with vulnerable children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe Minister asserted that there\u2019s no question that the current governance model of our tertiary institutions has failed spectacularly, and yet not one person in my region, the Waikato, has indicated that view. I look at the governance structure of the University of Waikato and Wintec\u2014they are working incredibly well. This bill is a travesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c495613e8ef149d3b8a6134e8a18708f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c495613e8ef149d3b8a6134e8a18708f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Jo Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00228578e8bf80124be09b99470a1a8ffb08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228578e8bf80124be09b99470a1a8ffb08\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to stand here and say that I am really pleased to see national standards removed from legislation. Our young children\u2019s self-esteem will no longer be stomped into the ground, because they will no longer be told they aren\u2019t good enough because they are below national standards. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002291c940b613864c889112c3c34e9dd330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291c940b613864c889112c3c34e9dd330\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I did have a lot of material that I prepared tonight, but I\u2019m going to put that to one side, and if I get time to get to it, I will. I think it\u2019s very important that I start tonight by addressing some of the concerns that Tracey Martin came up with tonight, because she came out tonight and she said that she\u2019s been to visit charter schools. Well, the first thing I would like to say is that she is probably the only one on that side of the House that actually has, because we know that the Prime Minister won\u2019t go. She refuses to go. But Tracey Martin\u2019s been, and let\u2019s have a think about what Tracey Martin sees when she goes to charter schools. She sees substandard buildings that you wouldn\u2019t put a dog in, and she brings into this debate the children of my colleagues\u2014how dare she. But if that was actually the case, if there were buildings that you wouldn\u2019t put a dog in, surely that would be against (a) health and safety, and (b) the contracts of those charter schools, and this Government should be fixing it. The point is that that\u2019s not the case. It\u2019s absolute rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhile Tracey Martin is walking around, having a look at the buildings that these children are in, I\u2019ll tell you what she\u2019s not looking at, what she\u2019s not paying attention to, and that is the children in these charter schools. She is not paying attention to what they have to say. She\u2019s not talking to the teachers to listen to what they have to say, she\u2019s not listening to the parents, to the wh\u0101nau, and she\u2019s not listening to iwi leaders, like the rest of this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EUs on this side of the House, most of us\u2014in fact, probably all of us\u2014have been to charter schools. We have sat down and we have talked to those students, and I can tell you some stories about those students. Josie\u2014she had a baby when she was a teenager. She went to Vanguard Military School with no qualifications, no self-worth, and no respect for herself or anybody else. She was failing miserably everywhere, she didn\u2019t feel great about herself, and you know what? Sorry\u2014does this House know what? Josie is now achieving beyond her wildest dreams. She is the first female at that school to make the 300 club, and the look on her face when she achieved that was absolutely amazing. The self-confidence that that young woman had, that she\u2019d never had before, and she probably never would have in the mainstream, was out of this world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat about Parris? Self-harming; a dad in jail; again, failing; miserable\u2014turns up at Vanguard Military School and her life is turned around. It\u2019s an inspiring, incredible story that I cannot do justice to. Everyone should watch that video.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBrad\u2014I know Brad. He lost his mum early last year, and it was terrible for his family. I\u2019m emotional about this because I know that this school has turned his life around. He was not having a good time at other schools, and his dad didn\u2019t know what to do, and this school has given him another chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAnd, yes, I get emotional, and, yes, I get a little bit angry about this, but I have sat in front of these students, I have spoken to them, and I have looked at the hope and the confidence in their eyes because they know they have a chance of success now\u2014and they never had that under the mainstream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EJamie Strange has been yelling across this House all night \u201CSpecial character schools! Special character schools!\u201D, and Tracey Martin\u2019s been going on about how they\u2019ll all be open next year and it\u2019ll all be fine. These schools have existed since 1986, and they have been failing students since 1986. What this Government thinks is that, suddenly, by just giving them this different title, everything is going to be fine. Well, they\u2019ve been failing them since 1986, and they will continue to fail them, because they don\u2019t have the flexibility, they don\u2019t have the ability to pay teachers more\u2014which is what they do now\u2014and they don\u2019t have the ability to innovate. Charter schools offer parents, they offer families, and they offer students something different, something innovative, and something flexible. And the mainstream has been failing these students for such a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what Tracey Martin really likes to talk about, because I\u2019ve heard her talk about it before. She likes to talk about attendance rates, and she does it in the House a number of times. She talks about the fact\u2014oh, I\u2019m a bit out of breath\u2014that, nationally, 66 percent of students are attending school regularly, which is not very good. Vanguard: 94 percent\u2014but this Government doesn\u2019t want to know about it. And they\u2019re not taking any learnings from charter schools; they\u2019re going back to a model that\u2019s been failing kids, with high truancy rates, and they\u2019re not going to look at these incredible models and take any learnings from them. They\u2019re forging ahead despite all of the submissions against this bill\u2014from Vanguard Military School, from Alwyn Poole, from Sir Toby Curtis\u2014which are damning of this Government. And they\u2019re forging ahead with this bill to remove charter schools, one of the only things that are succeeding for young, vulnerable students and, especially, young, vulnerable M\u0101ori, who have been disadvantaged by the mainstream for so long, and this is the only thing that\u2019s working for them\u2014that ever worked for them. And this Government, and this arrogant Minister, is throwing that all down the toilet. Shame on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002286651fd909684c3eb48c8cb45b55ac7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286651fd909684c3eb48c8cb45b55ac7f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is also a split call. I call Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5e56e1f18746dbbdd8ea5b40d2aef9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5e56e1f18746dbbdd8ea5b40d2aef9\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe in this bill with every fibre of my being. I\u2019m proud of it, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022de4dd206abd04db386d983bef8c697cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de4dd206abd04db386d983bef8c697cb\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and what a debate\u2014what a debate. I have to say that the contribution from Tracey Martin was a disgrace, and to say to the parents of children in partnership schools\u2014and she did say it\u2014that they are treating their children worse than dogs is a disgrace. Not quite so disgraceful but amusing was Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who talked about \u201Clived\u201D experience. I don\u2019t know what other sort of experience there is, but that\u2019s the most we can say for her contribution. Jamie Strange, by name and nature, got up and said \u201CI oppose this\u201D\u2014or support it, I don\u2019t know\u2014with every fibre in his body. Well, I guess you just have to take the support you can get sometimes\u2014not a lot. I want to commend the speech from Erica Stanford. I thought that that was outstanding, and it shows the passion that partnership schools have engendered in just about everybody that they have touched.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to stand here for the ACT Party that initiated this policy. I\u2019m proud that, as a much younger, more optimistic, and smiley version of myself, I was John Banks\u2019 adviser when we put together the legislation this Government is trying to erase tonight, and I\u2019m proud that over three years as the under-secretary for education in the previous Government, I presided over the partnership school policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI put a question to the members on the Labour Party benches, especially the newer ones. They\u2019re here because they want to make a difference in the world\u2014they want to make the world a better place. Some of their maiden statements were quite moving. They showed that they had seen the human waste of people underserved by Government services, underserved by the world, who found themselves unable to access the skills that would allow them to succeed in the 21st century. They came here because they\u2019d seen that human waste, and they wanted to make a difference in the world. I\u2019d ask them what difference they believe they are making by supporting a bill that gets rid of partnership schools. What problem are they trying to solve? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern\u2014their leader\u2014said that if partnership schools taught the New Zealand Curriculum, had registered teachers, and were funded at the same rate as State schools, then they would be able to stay open. Well, every single partnership school teaches the New Zealand Curriculum, so there\u2019s no problem there. Every single partnership school is funded at the same rate as a State school with an equivalent student population and of the same size. I know this because I designed the funding formula, and I had just as much trouble with the sponsors saying that they were not getting enough money as I did from the opponents saying that they were getting too much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo ask yourself: what could be the remaining problem? Well, teacher registration. We heard from Tracey Martin that there were unregistered and unqualified teachers. Well, I had a little bit to do with the Cabinet paper that said that teachers in partnership schools can have an exemption from registration with the Education Council (EDUCANZ) if they have the \u201Cskills, qualifications, and experience\u201D to raise student achievement. They were not unqualified; they were people who were able to raise student achievement by engaging with them, even if they didn\u2019t have a certificate from EDUCANZ. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo, given that they meet all of the criteria the Prime Minister has set out, why, oh why, do we have this bill tonight? Is this really the difference that Labour members came to this House to make, to make the world a better place? No. The sad truth of it is that the real difference between a partnership school and a special character school is the use of union contracts. They weren\u2019t afraid that 12 small schools would fail and shut down. They were afraid that these schools offered a glimmer of hope\u2014a crack in the Berlin Wall of the education monopoly\u2014that would allow children to succeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat is why they are trying to close partnership schools tonight. It is nothing to do with children. It is nothing to do with girls like Hope at Vanguard Military School, who said to me, \u201CI never knew I was smart until I came here.\u201D It\u2019s everything to do with preserving the monopoly of the elites in the teacher unions. I think that\u2019s a terrible reason to come to this House, and I\u2019m not surprised the Labour members all have their heads down as I speak. What a shame\u2014what a shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca269cfd21ac4cb4a1b28059104e2d74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca269cfd21ac4cb4a1b28059104e2d74\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, e t\u0113nei wiki, Te Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori. In what sadness I stand in this M\u0101ori Language Week, the week that this Government chooses to prioritise and push through a bill which takes away the right of M\u0101ori to attend schools that their community have chosen to establish, that their leaders say serve their people, and that they believe have lifted the achievement of M\u0101ori young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat a sad thing it is to be this week progressing a bill that is subject to a Treaty of Waitangi claim that has led to a letter being written to our very Prime Minister urging her to await the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal and urging her to be aware of the serious concerns M\u0101ori have over the failure by the Crown to consult M\u0101ori on the closure of the 11 partnership schools\u2014a letter signed by the Hon Dame Tariana Turia, who once sat with members from the party opposite; signed by Dame Iritana T\u0101whiwhirangi; and signed by Pem Bird. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EYou know what? This is a Government that\u2019s quite happy to sit around the Cabinet table with T\u012Btiwhai Harawera and talk to her and talk to M\u0101ori about partnership. This is a Government that\u2019s very happy to take a photo opportunity and to say that it wants to make sure the Crown meets its Treaty commitments across Government, and that it will do this by providing an independent Government view on Treaty issues. And we had T\u012Btewhai commenting on what this would mean. She said, \u201CI want to be able to come to you in your Cabinet and say this is not working\u2014can we try something else?\u201D Well, you know what, Mr Hipkins? M\u0101ori said, \u201CThe State education system wasn\u2019t working for us\u2014partnership schools provided an opportunity.\u201D They went with that opportunity, and it has been delivering for their people, and what are you doing? That Minister is taking that opportunity away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what\u2014Winston Peters knows it. He knows that it is absolutely farcical to do a photo opportunity saying you believe in Crown partnership in the same week that you\u2019re ignoring this kind of letter. Winston Peters knows that the talk, talk, talk doesn\u2019t match up to the do, do, do, and that is why members opposite should hang their heads in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut for those who may be listening to this debate, let me remind you about what partnership schools really are about. What this taking away of them represents is a triumph of fear over hope, because what partnership schools have meant is that many people who have been failed by the traditional school system\u2014a system that for many generations has, sadly, failed many young people, particularly M\u0101ori, particularly Pasifika. This is a system that has not been able to deliver, and what these schools have done is offer hope. They\u2019ve said, actually, let\u2019s give communities the power to solve their own problems. Let\u2019s allow innovation. Let\u2019s try something different. Let\u2019s give it a go. Let\u2019s see what happens if we alter the model. Let\u2019s see what happens if we actually allow teachers to be paid a bit more, if we take away some of the rigidity of the funding systems. This little experiment, this beautiful, budding thing, has delivered goods, and what the Government has said is \u201CNo, no, no\u2014we\u2019re afraid of this doing things differently business. We\u2019re going to shut them all down. We can\u2019t have it being different. We\u2019ve got to have the square box that makes everyone the same. We\u2019ve got to take away the agency this gives parents. We\u2019ve got to take away the agency this gives to communities who might be able to choose to reject the State system and do things differently and take away the monolithic power that sits within that State system.\u201D This is a triumph of the belief in a resignation to failure instead of believing that we can do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Erica Stanford said, what this actually comes down to is the people that will now be failed that these schools have delivered for. I want to take the words of Parris, who used to self-harm and whose dad went into prison when she was 11, and who says of the partnership school that she now takes two trains and four buses to get to\u2014she says, \u201CThis school shows me I\u2019m worth it now.\u201D And what do the members opposite want to do to Parris? They say, \u201CYou\u2019re not worth it. This school model isn\u2019t worth it. Our ideology is worth more than the innovation that this school represents.\u201D We say on this side of the House that that is wrong, that somehow believing that a community catering to its people better than a Government can is a threat shows that you are giving in to fear at the expense of hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIf this is the best that the Government has to offer for education, then they are set to fail our children. If their answer to progress is to say they\u2019ll take things away\u2014\u201Cwe\u2019ll take partnership schools away, we\u2019ll take national standards away\u201D\u2014if that\u2019s the prescription for making things better, then already you are on the course to failure. The people that you are failing are the parents, who deserve choices\u2014the parents, who deserve information about how their children are achieving at school and deserve the certainty that that information is being passed on to the Ministry of Education, as national standards provided. The people that are being failed are the young men and women who were offered the opportunity of a different model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe members opposite should remember the words of their wise colleague that they sit around in their ministerial robes with, Willie Jackson, who said, \u201CWhen you look at the success [that] this alternative style education model has had for M\u0101ori, then it gets an [A] every day.\u201D, and \u201Cas far as M\u0101ori are concerned, \u2026 Chris Hipkins\u2019 \u2026 bill to scrap partnership schools [ranks] an E.\u201D That\u2019s what Willie Jackson had to say, and I wonder what he has to say now, or whether the joy of being a Minister is such that his conscience has gone. Certainly, today we see a Government whose conscience is not there for the individuals who are benefiting from these schools, whose conscience is not there for the reality of the Crown-M\u0101ori relationship\u2014a Government who is actually more focused on its internal dealings and its disputes between the coalition partners than it is on the well-being and progress of New Zealand students. Hang your heads in shame. We will oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20180912c428dacc77ef4ce28a70e00e394ffae3000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"