"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209b74375c1ac480297ddd18a6e99d980\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b97e9867c6dd412b9ca83cf783270a0e\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e57c55615bc4f8fabfa6a258ebca3f0\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b322663ccf44466a4fb0beb0b06d9e1\u0022\u003EPittsburgh\u2014Condemnation of Attack on Jewish Community\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022769215d9ab95406dbc323997d9880c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769215d9ab95406dbc323997d9880c8d\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without debate that this House supports the worldwide Shabbat services condemning the recent horrific attack on the Jewish community in Pittsburgh. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae3cc2e6e093437b92f170247417c18c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to check that that\u2019s been cleared through the whips. It has been. I\u2019ll put the question that the member be given leave to move that motion without notice and without debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f45ebb4a31484039827d9a7d6ca43e1d\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could he read it again? Many of us couldn\u2019t hear it because the mike wasn\u2019t on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c18e27f5a204947abc307d334b01fd9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been cleared by the whips, and it\u2019ll become pretty clear to the member soon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca4b1f3f686f4cde8a0ed2d9248c8c27\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for this motion, That this House supports the worldwide Shabbat services this past weekend condemning the recent horrific attack on the Jewish community in Pittsburgh and acknowledges that no one should be forced to live in fear in their daily lives, no matter their race or religion, for fear of terror or anti-Semitism. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002239db03aa371b4307b428687ac982b58b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239db03aa371b4307b428687ac982b58b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, what I\u2019m going to do is, notwithstanding it being a bit of a repeat of seeking leave, I\u2019ll take that as being the motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d394f3756aaf43b19fa19b77f4884219\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b42c79ccf7e741a9a445c2dc73b41901\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226db277753d814c4e8e4f0c0cc3351411\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002279c3c307fe314687b845999b18c7408c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279c3c307fe314687b845999b18c7408c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00220fc8fd55aa3845aaa049b2012776e550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fc8fd55aa3845aaa049b2012776e550\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular the statements that were made on Sunday in support of rolling out across the country 600 learning support coordinators to ensure that those with special needs in our education system have their needs met, that teachers are freed up to teach, and that all children get the very best education possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273eaee237cfe4a69adf7175418154c64\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why was residency granted to Karel Sroubek by her Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acb3d9b18ef46bf8b9dbce332625a98\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I\u2019ve already thrown out the clarification around him already having residency and it being a deportation order, but, as the Minister himself has said in this House, since the decision was made, there has been contradictory information in the public domain. It\u2019s only fitting that, therefore, we go back to Immigration New Zealand and seek further work to be done. Once that is complete, there will be more to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067e2c96bba042e3888d3c5a4a05e274\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Hasn\u2019t the only right answer in this case always been to deport? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dedb98cb83164e16b8b977dd0b2819a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, the Minister can only deal with the information put in front of him. There has now been brought to light potentially contradictory information in the public domain. We have gone back to Immigration and sought\u2014as fast as possible\u2014clarification, and then, when we\u2019re in a position to, we will give greater clarity around those points of contradiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc30759cad0402ba1998b8ae981c5d1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that one of the criminal charges Karel Sroubek has faced resulted in the police placing an entire family into New Zealand\u2019s witness protection programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf89903ae954adaafafd1aa7dca4d07\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said many times, there\u2019s a range of reasons why we have gone back to Immigration New Zealand to seek further clarification and work to be done. I do want to ensure that we can do that properly. When we are in a position to share more information around the case, then we will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022194bbc4edd4e41adb441b48297342b74\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the sort of person her Minister should grant residency to for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744e7fc94d394cbca2442ba558c0555e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I have spoken before around the basis of the original decision\u2014keeping in mind, of course, that residency already existed; the decision put before the Minister was around a deportation order. He made that decision based on information put in front of him. There has now been contradictory information that\u2019s been put into the public domain and we are now doing additional work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe4555763904ff68cdef296c75a6717\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is a criminal with charges so serious that an entire family went into a witness protection scheme someone who should have residency in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b63ee58fa31f4bd8833632a475e02f1c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: While I won\u2019t get into the specifics of this case while we are going back on it, because I do want to preserve the ability of officials to deal with this appropriately, what I will say is that member well knows, having been in Government, that there are some cases which I\u2019m sure they wouldn\u2019t want to go through and pick out information from selectively. Because there\u2019s been over a hundred of these cases while they were in Government too, and this just happens to be one of the roles that immigration Ministers hold, and it is a very difficult part of the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2114e89e0684636b983264c0c1a90d9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has anyone, prior to Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s final decision on Karel Sroubek, ever discussed or made any representations in any form on the case to her? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61a4adc4aff439bbf0e47ad7e385e63\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, I\u2019ve had discussions with the Minister over this case, but again, I do want to exercise some caution here, because, as I\u2019ve said, we are going through this case presently. I want to preserve our ability to deal with this case appropriately. When we\u2019re in a position to share more information, we will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c3599192ba64b2e89ac1e5c24349b32\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has anyone other than the Minister ever discussed or made representations on the case to the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f5ff11c4da4b0899b383a888a020a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, obviously, I\u2019ve had a range of discussions within my office about this case, but the most appropriate way for it to be dealt with is to go back to the source of the original information that went before the Minister\u2014primarily that is held within Immigration New Zealand. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve done. We\u2019ve seen and responded to the information that\u2019s been raised in the public domain, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve taken back to the department, and that is what needs to occur in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de06174fcff45f9b3d4dcc543d1a558\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has anyone, prior to Iain Lees-Galloway\u2019s decision on Karel Sroubek, ever discussed or made representations in any form on the case with her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218395973bc07488b9981c44ef8cb4640\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c4bc16b83b43418c1930dfa8024643\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she know who has made representations to Iain Lees-Galloway on the case? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8db469b71d4b0c9626b857851ac7d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister will have followed the same process that his Minister followed, and that is to deal with the facts of the case as it\u2019s put before him. That\u2019s exactly the process that his Ministers in the last Government would have done before they gave it back to officials. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4bf85321bd476787dd6d72108dd1b7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Prime Minister: does she know who has made representations? She hasn\u2019t answered that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5250b7e4a5f4a928a85843a9bd22318\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think she answered that there were written papers or documents before the Minister, so it certainly has addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5c67c374744163ac0c24737cce3d33\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she know who has made representations to Iain Lees-Galloway on this case?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cef1c8984c94313af21de1e7873bfb9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: My understanding of the handling of this case was it was dealt with in the usual, appropriate way that Ministers exercise their discretion in these cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1c26290f7294775a583377a39eb07ad\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why on The Nation did she express confidence in Iain Lees-Galloway but she wouldn\u2019t in his officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022662f6ae8c7324b13b8efd2f92d7c6e00\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I don\u2019t accept that characterisation. I have expressed confidence in the Minister. But what I have said is that the Minister can only make a decision based on the information provided to him. That does not naturally mean that I am therefore placing blame on anyone else. The available information that was put to the Minister, yes, came from Immigration. That does not mean I am placing fault there. It does mean there are unanswered questions. I\u2019m reserving any position on this until we get to the bottom of this case, and I\u2019m allowing the space and time for that to be done but as quickly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbbe81f546b4861af6c77bfbacf4aad\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How long will it be until we know the outcome of the investigation into this Karel Sroubek decision by the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc3d6c58c15f45c996f48af5279bc6d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The original time line that was given to the Minister last week was three weeks. We both discussed that time line and agreed it was too long. We\u2019ve sought that it be completed earlier than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229620a55ac52346a99f9b951f2f95cc65\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022266d386ac5654e72bf8950315d11a655\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022266d386ac5654e72bf8950315d11a655\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is he considering making any changes to New Zealand\u2019s electoral law in the remainder of this parliamentary term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u002233a88a22dcf0405e9a6fb08d8e35ffa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233a88a22dcf0405e9a6fb08d8e35ffa7\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Acting Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Justice is currently considering areas of electoral law reform and will be providing advice to me on this shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b99ae7db33804920986b8ff5ee80050d\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider implementing the Electoral Commission\u2019s recommendations from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89525b6fca749c285e245d4557f6c60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry. Before the member continues, can we just have it clarified whether the Minister is talking on behalf of Minister Little or on his own behalf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea7c2e42cf94e29aa79a5becf18499c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I am the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022439a68127233496f898bd73e561365b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So it\u2019s going to be provided to you, not to the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a3b4cc0e9e34a39b375d233c799481b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228936c3ee2f4d4d04a757ec439687496c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. All right. All clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fd08aab025249f58a998ce4aeaf15ee\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider implementing the Electoral Commission\u2019s recommendations from their report into the 2017 general election, such as allowing voters of M\u0101ori descent to change role type at any time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3d5411311c4c2d8a87c2a1195bf94e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Justice and the Justice Committee are looking at a number of areas of electoral reform, which includes many of the areas identified in the Electoral Commission\u2019s report on the 2017 election. The Government will be considering these areas of electoral reform in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223251fce2b359469d95c89f25b5d80e16\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he introduce a bill implementing the Electoral Commission\u2019s recommendations from the 2012 MMP review, particularly as the Deputy Prime Minister said recently that considering the review\u2019s recommendations was a \u201Cmarvellous suggestion\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298691f2e96c645fab98c832e713de303\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Justice is currently considering areas of electoral reform identified in the Electoral Commission\u2019s report on the 2017 election. I will be receiving further advice on this in due course, but there is a robust process that all change must go through before we\u2019ll consider introducing any bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfc6443e579444a8bb82d7019c8aa30\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. I\u2019m going to ask the Minister to now answer the question that was asked. Does the Minister want it repeated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d84a4462db8046dd940190306aeeb460\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224054874ed16243c182a328f042ba5c64\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ce59fd815c4f0d95c044e7c4cebc8b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: There is a robust process that all change must go through before we would consider introducing any bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fa60666c0846068be34528f6903a56\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Government assure the House that no electoral law changes will be finalised or introduced as a bill before this House until the Justice Committee has completed its inquiry into the 2017 election, as has been the convention in this House for a very long time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278eff4a1b13e40fa8dda9b9e4ceec252\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: We have a legislative programme that the member will learn of in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef9af12445934b35a80bd967c990b664\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider overturning the ban on prisoner voting brought in by the last Government, given that the High Court, Court of Appeal, and the previous Attorney-General all ruled that the ban breached the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84e0b79defc4fa995ccccf141ba7c13\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, the member might want to rephrase the question. It wasn\u2019t brought in by a Government\u2014a Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022754c6913ed2f4b0eb206241625932fb6\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider overturning the ban on prisoner voting brought in by the last Parliament, given that the High Court, Court of Appeal, and the previous Attorney-General all ruled that the ban breached the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223fdcd921ac045cfbc28e736b3ede8eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t the last Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af20f5a32a414ffaa8e7a55d3eb40e65\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, let\u2019s\u2014we\u2019ll be flexible and let the Minister answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894c028c28ab40ac9ce16970808f0ded\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is considering a number of areas of electoral reform, but, like everything, as mentioned, there is a robust process that change must go through before it can be implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022035c3034a70e4675837abd2307a3d10e\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider increasing the transparency requirements in New Zealand\u2019s donation disclosure rules, given the large amount of donations in New Zealand where the donor\u2019s identity is anonymous, including over $3.5 million in anonymous donations to the National Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eec1306c52b4f4e9c928cdebe7d6d6e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Without the last bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7ce3313be245d7b04ba4ad28316eb6\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I have instructed officials to look at electoral laws, including the disclosure of donations, so we can start a public discussion and conversation. We need to ensure that our system is robust enough to avoid the kind of allegations that we have seen in the last few weeks from, for example, Jami-Lee Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c7f60968df8498d81f4a67e5a250631\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right, sit down. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f65db71caf7e4858807618688c5013cd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u002229e0fa95350c4e8b95238db27101ac7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229e0fa95350c4e8b95238db27101ac7e\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c11ef94d5821482d900e654b936110a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c11ef94d5821482d900e654b936110a6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the World Bank released its Doing Business 2019 report, ranking New Zealand at number one in the world for ease of doing business. The report specifically comments that the top three countries, led by New Zealand, exemplify a business-friendly environment. This is another real-life example of the strength of New Zealand\u2019s underlying economic and business fundamentals. These are supported by the coalition Government\u2019s business-friendly plan, which includes infrastructure investment, skills and training support for Kiwi businesses, and research and development support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae21c5099cf42e39f6c5f34f4439ccc\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the Government\u2019s role in the strength of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ef9cb6a96f47688b9ef737103af42e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen analysis from a well-known commentator who said, quote, \u201CFor now the economy is holding up nicely, despite all the numbers around confidence, there is a $5.5 billion surplus, genuinely solid growth, there are \u2026 shortages in the workforce, interest rates are low, all the ingredients are there to argue economic credibility.\u201D I can confirm to Mike Hosking that the Government is working alongside businesses and training institutions to address the skills shortages he references. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca9d75fda1e42938f21da008ef4dee8\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen from Treasury on the future strength of the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc37b76c373c4f879d6bbf55016a709a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury\u2019s latest set of forecasts, released at Budget 2018, showed forecast growth of about 3 percent on average\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022654a6b91766642cb85a952ed0d2d2e17\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re very unreliable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261bf0c66394844cb8305e235981c9c3a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually, they\u2019re very reliable\u2014over the next few years. Since these forecasts, we\u2019ve continued solid underlying growth in the New Zealand economy, although there are increasing risks around the international situation which we need to keep an eye on. I can inform the House today that Treasury\u2019s next set of forecasts will be released in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, alongside the Budget Policy Statement 2019, on Thursday, 13 December. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fceaee425dfb436d8529326846fa44b1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002229ef6633d84f4bb2ac3b9e67989febd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229ef6633d84f4bb2ac3b9e67989febd7\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3572abc47664bcd83688b17d4bc7449\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3572abc47664bcd83688b17d4bc7449\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as I did in question No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aff53f7d3e6445b8d4c0106ab3729b5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Government seek any advice on whether there would be demand in W\u0101naka for two- or three-bedroom homes in the KiwiBuild price caps; if so, what did the advice say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bdf467ebb9e4636ae50a8d6958b936d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is familiar with the demand in that region and the house prices in that region, he\u2019ll understand that yes, there is demand there, and that work was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922f48de0d524b09b5ebabeaacbd2fc9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If that is so, why did a KiwiBuild spokesperson say that \u201CSome houses have received no entries and the developer has asked us to extend the ballot\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb5da5a32b7410d90808ac2a3c207f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will be familiar that with the ballot in Auckland there was significant demand. We found\u2014from my memory\u2014that some of that demand came in quite late in the ballot process. What we\u2019ve seen in the South, as I understand, is that applicants have started the application process, but haven\u2019t always completed it. The decision was made to give that additional time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242edb54fa06a44948c8d25a3bc7b072d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she confident the Government will be able to fill the 211 KiwiBuild houses in W\u0101naka, in the South Island, over the next two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e0140b7e4a147e8bb6b6ab3f2f1d355\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very clear on where in the country there\u2019s exceptional demand and exceptional house prices. The reason that we as a Government decided to step into the market\u2014because it had failed\u2014was because we had areas where business was saying they couldn\u2019t get people because housing was unaffordable. We decided to step into those areas and fill that gap. That is what we\u2019re doing. We\u2019re proud of our agenda, and I\u2019m confident as we roll out this programme that people will continue to take up those offers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd52644cbd2d4ccd9f1e15487ea624a3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If there\u2019s such exceptional demand, as she says, why have only 20 people entered the ballot so far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265488c1aaf7e484eba565524655ec6a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I already set out some of the reasoning for that. If the member is suggesting for a moment that there is no problem with our housing market, that there are available to first-home buyers homes at a price point that is realistic, then that is his prerogative, but on this side, we do not accept that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219bc970bba8c47c0ab4ef3109099fdb0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government subsidising KiwiBuild houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae5221b603942d5ac3ec9a28940a681\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As we have constantly pointed out, KiwiBuild is not a subsidy programme; it is a programme using the Government\u2019s scale and buying power to deliver what the market has failed to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d08f7ebd4a224a4dbc37a2aa0ef357bb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What will happen with KiwiBuild houses that do not sell through the ballot system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b08b9910984f379705440f80f03d8d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is a hypothetical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022349f16ddd51e4db7b8c3a64698246f50\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How is a scheme where the Government is guaranteeing to buy houses that do not sell to the market at a price that is, by definition, above market price not subsidising those houses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d67c3ef5f2a42718824d99760c984a1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As we have set out many times before, what we have done is accepted that 5 percent\u20145 percent\u2014is the number of houses in the market currently that are at the first-home buyer level. That is not acceptable, given the demand that is out there. We needed someone to enter the market and build first homes for first-home buyers. That is what we have agreed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fc1ee3d59c84c4abd22cba67b0efd4c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002223a2d2af48d9447ba72757e20722a286\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a2d2af48d9447ba72757e20722a286\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: What work has she done to deliver on the recommendations of the Education and Science Committee in relation to dyslexia, dyspraxia, and children on the autism spectrum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00224cb479a2dc364a5e85cc39346958f9ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cb479a2dc364a5e85cc39346958f9ce\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Recommendation 33 from the Education and Science Committee report into dyslexia, dyspraxia, and children on the autism spectrum in 2016 recommended that the Government task the Ministry of Education with assessing the feasibility of funding full-time trained Special Education Needs Coordinators for schools with more than 200 students. The previous Government did not accept this recommendation. This Government has gone further and is committed to providing $217 million for a first tranche of 600 learning support coordinators based in schools in 2020. This new fully funded, stand-alone role will address a number of the other recommendations from the inquiry around strengthening professional development and support for schools to identify and respond to young people with dyslexia, dyspraxia, children on the autism spectrum, and other neurodiverse conditions, including giftedness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a17dda24858e4c578702e57594da3f74\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: When will the first 600 learning support coordinators be in place in our schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221baff8e8a9ab4df58e802bc3d43e710d\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: The first tranche will provide 600 learning support coordinators in 2020. We are changing the way learning support is delivered in this country, and there are a number of steps to do this. Step one is the roll-out of the new learning support delivery model, which has been piloted in a number of regions over the last year. We intend to have the new delivery model in place across the country by the end of 2019. Step two of this change is getting learning support coordinators in place. They are critical as a part of the new support delivery model. Consultation on the learning support coordinator role closed this week. We are now analysing feedback, which will determine the final shape of the role, the ratios, and how it will be implemented in both urban and rural settings. I will also continue to move on the other complementary steps, such as screening tools for learning challenges and the development of tool kits to support students once those challenges have been acknowledged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c4fec361472449bb22b47a60d1f4795\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions is the Minister considering as part of the draft disability and learning support action plan that reflect the recommendations from the select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221460b3c01ea54476899655754597b483\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: This Government wants to ensure children and young people with neurodiverse learning support needs are identified so that they can receive the support they need as early as possible. I will be reporting back to Cabinet in December on how I intend to address this and other priorities and the draft disability learning support action plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d5ca6138c6f498faf5f496d09bd5101\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister who, in a May announcement about children\u2019s early intervention services, stated that appointment waiting times of 74 days were too long, and, if so, does the Minister think it\u2019s acceptable that since then, waiting times for early intervention services have increased from 74 to 98 days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b3e7341a8904cea92d39074092b755b\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister. I do not accept that that is an appropriate amount of time. That is why this Government has modelled and piloted a delivery support action plan across New Zealand\u2014it\u2019s now being rolled out right now; why learning support coordinators, the first 600 will actually roll out into schools in 2020; and why, in the Taup\u014D pilot of this model, we managed to cut down those waiting times. This Government\u2019s actually taking action after nine years of inaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e38f6ef26da4da09b9e39896e8af947\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the current funding for early intervention is the funding allocated in the 2017 Budget, and that the increase in funding that was allocated in the 2018 Budget starts at the beginning of next year in order to reduce the waiting times that are now being complained about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022187a2f25417d49458352313f63ba11b0\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm exactly that. This Government is on a roll, and we\u2019re going to keep it going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0f9507b72154ca682d48f9689028320\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002200152a5d604d41789d4fcbb971ec3edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200152a5d604d41789d4fcbb971ec3edd\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he consider consumer confidence to be an important measure of the strength of the New Zealand economy; if so, what does the trend in consumer confidence since the election say about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022534521c647db4c31b19bb1b9a5ab2a1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022534521c647db4c31b19bb1b9a5ab2a1e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Consumer confidence is an important measure of how confident consumers feel. Sometimes consumer confidence surveys are interpreted as current indicators of the strength of the economy overall. For example, in the latest ANZ consumer confidence survey, the current conditions index is said to be very strong, with a trend showing a rise in the latest month and at a similar level to that after the change in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226627084f5a9b423f85c90e5cebe7d469\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a primary question on notice, with two parts. He answered the first part, certainly; I don\u2019t think he addressed the second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022494f2aae72a34489850c644bfcb83c29\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, I feel like\u2014no, I will ask the Minister. It\u2019s sort of like a free hit really, but if the member wants it, then the Minister can have another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220993ba55ab549b68077a84ac9f1584c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the question asks what the consumer confidence trend would say about the strength of the New Zealand economy, what I\u2019d say to the member is that the New Zealand economy is extremely strong at the moment, and this Government\u2019s very, very proud of the strength of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07fb4ca11a547989bcf7220c4977b6f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So how does the Minister suggest that the trend of the consumer confidence surveys shows strength of the economy when, in fact, since the election, the Westpac McDermott Miller index has dropped to a six-year low and the ANZ consumer confidence survey has dropped by 15 points?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fccf697bf8b549daa06b8b22478c5b02\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, consumer confidence surveys survey aspects of how consumers are feeling. Within the current ANZ survey, we can see that people who are feeling better off has stayed pretty steady; those who think that bad times are ahead is at the lowest it\u2019s been this year. But if the member is trying to suggest that the Government is the ultimate controller of that, well the last time we saw the levels in the ANZ consumer survey was when that member was a Minister\u2014so, presumably, she was responsible for that too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d183bb6be970437a82804cb9ec22e754\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So is his plan to simply dismiss consumer confidence views as politically biased in the same way he\u2019s dismissed business confidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ddf193ae0d445e8acb8b044184825b9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, my plan is to make sure that we invest in infrastructure that was neglected for nine years, that we lift the skills and training rates of New Zealanders, that we get a billion dollars\u2019 worth of research and development funding out in the community, and start to correct the mistakes of the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c2053976e4443cba7c5b800d0b2976\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: So how much does he think consumer confidence is affected by the 30 percent of New Zealand households that are now reporting that even after the Government\u2019s Families Package, they now have less money to spend on meeting essentials, because of rising costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f98f5a0d0d459783ba700c2dacce7f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have the information the member\u2019s referring to in front of me. But if we do talk about the ANZ consumer confidence survey, it says that a net 33 percent of people say it\u2019s a good time to buy a major household item, which has bounced back from last month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab39b224b34a49e7ba5974d34fa6773b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: What has this Government done for those New Zealanders who don\u2019t rely on State support but are working hard every day and finding it tougher and tougher to deal with rising costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9e9d9ec73644dfa55bc670ba3e572f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Among many things, we\u2019ve increased Working for Families, which I don\u2019t think the member is rejecting, although it appears this is yet another interesting place in National\u2019s fiscal and policy stance\u2014perhaps Working for Families is on the way out now as well. But we\u2019ve supported Working for Families. But I just said to the member before: we\u2019re now investing in infrastructure in a way the previous Government completely neglected. We\u2019re making sure that there\u2019s more money available for research and development. We\u2019re making sure that there\u2019s more money available for education. On this side of the House, we\u2019re actually investing in how we grow the economy sustainably, not relying on population growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022061fa08f5cd7439197e16202a17b09ec\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Would he agree that, in fact, the best explanation for the large decline in consumer confidence over the last 12 months is that costs are going up faster than households have experienced for a long time, incomes are not keeping up, and 1.7 million households are worse off under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b528495f768a493fa7703ef25cf8c3f4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No; I reject the premise of that question, and the member should actually look at the real data in the economy, which shows that it\u2019s growing solidly. There\u2019s a lot of work to do to undo the last nine years, but we\u2019ve made a great start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202557b5869cd448484afb7f1c29f1bd5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00225f26bc4d9e8f46d8ae0b7adf9a90c603\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f26bc4d9e8f46d8ae0b7adf9a90c603\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions in relation to Karel Sroubek, also known as Jan Antolik?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002293a51176cccc4240babe0d630a1bdec5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a51176cccc4240babe0d630a1bdec5\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context of the information that I had available to me at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76c1124d7fc4c5cb3e4314cb8046dcc\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied that at the time he made his decision to grant residency to Mr Sroubek he had a reasonable summary of the criminal charges laid against him in New Zealand between 2009 and 2016, and of the outcome of those charges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b121e5b17f495087e2bf1559974619\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: As the member is aware, there is an investigation under way into this matter. It\u2019s important that I do not prejudice the investigation or possible further action as a result. Because of this ongoing work, it is not in the public interest for me to answer the question at this time. I will be able to provide more information at the appropriate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3641d03a1384a809621677b19a48e04\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Did any member of Parliament advocate on Mr Sroubek\u2019s behalf?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a6eaf96d0247bda2b04b2ee5b2a109\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263feffc6f174c4bbb62bcc18f4097a9\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: If it is appropriate for the Minister to say what information he didn\u2019t have, why is it not appropriate now for him to say to the House what information he did have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2539bbd207749d29e9e774a8b670ede\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: For all the reasons that I\u2019ve just explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fdbce9548104303b512b3fa9ff82e22\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: If it isn\u2019t in the public interest to answer certain questions prior to the conclusion of his investigation, will he commit to a full release of the investigation\u2019s findings once it is concluded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bfc36b00ed54b2099171035151d223d\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I will commit to the release of the appropriate information at the appropriate time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a07b155cd06c45d9b941f2f384689fda\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb568ebdb21441ac863342a85e24c5cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb568ebdb21441ac863342a85e24c5cf\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What steps, if any, has the Government taken to support teachers in classrooms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022006453ed57644d5d92acfd568aa70c45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022006453ed57644d5d92acfd568aa70c45\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government recognises the importance of the teaching profession, and we\u2019re committed to lifting the status of teaching and ensuring that our teachers are respected and valued. Sunday\u2019s announcement of 600 learning support coordinators in schools builds on the $40 million investment we\u2019ve already been making in teacher supply and recruitment initiatives. We\u2019ve abolished national standards, we\u2019ve restored the right of teachers to elect their own members to their own regulatory council, we\u2019ve got a task force working on reducing red tape and compliance workload, we\u2019ve been listening to teachers, and we are taking action to address all of the concerns they have been raising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b5215939d7f4d1ba8a1690a16f711ba\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to support the teaching workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7e3fcad284d49938ad6949a1bdea09a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s now no secret whatsoever that we have a serious teacher shortage. We\u2019ve already provided funding for over a thousand teachers to refresh their training so that they can return to the classroom. Our international recruitment campaign has so far identified over 500 appropriate candidates ready for appointment to vacancies, and we\u2019ve launched a nationwide mentoring programme to support new teachers to get their careers off to a great start. We are pulling out all of the stops to clean up the mess that we inherited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f51001aa5c9441b9492f8cbfd25e132\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00224e57b904b4154201ae969fc7738ac719\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e57b904b4154201ae969fc7738ac719\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he stand by his statement that if the KiwiBuild Buying off the Plans initiative targets are met, the total financial value may be between $3.7 billion and $4.7 billion over three years, and what KiwiBuild developments have been announced so far through the Buying off the Plans initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002237209c84ff4c493b95140410ec011474\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237209c84ff4c493b95140410ec011474\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. The Government has announced 25 homes in Onehunga; 211 homes in Queenstown Lakes, with 10 KiwiBuild homes to be completed by Christmas 2019; 20 homes in Mount Albert; 175 homes in Te Kauwhata, with 10 KiwiBuild homes there to be completed by Christmas 2019; and 10 homes in \u014Ct\u0101huhu, with a further nine being built by June 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8498bd618c74611a2021560fbddac7d\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: How many houses in the Buying off the Plans development in W\u0101naka did not receive any applications to purchase before the ballot close date was extended?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ebe8b60456e4f93973d0d7a0261b903\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, hang on. I\u2019m just going to reflect on whether that question actually relates\u2014oh, I\u2019ll be liberal and let it go, but, in future, can the member make sure that the supplementary question relates either to the primary question or to the answer. Just saying \u201CKiwiBuild\u201D doesn\u2019t get it there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a490f9661f4593a5cc8ed5e919e9d1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that number to hand, but I\u2019m happy to get it if the member puts the question down in writing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df018ad4e8c6482ab699aa6ce3085f64\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What is he planning to do if houses KiwiBuild has underwritten in W\u0101naka and other such Buying off the Plans developments cannot be sold at the price agreed between KiwiBuild and the developer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e327276664a47c5be2c6186b9fd35f4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The nature of the Buying off the Plans scheme is that there\u2019s an underwrite by the Crown. So in the event of a KiwiBuild home being unsold at the end of the contracted period, the Crown then purchases it and can onsell it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b0ef53d8fe4b5080a59dce1e284d11\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that KiwiBuild will not be permitted to sell houses at a discount to the original price agreed with the developer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4d36a76e5994c35b9ee7d633d758f66\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c5499b732cc4506a3427c8a1af4e86b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6258991010a46fda9587302ec734e7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6258991010a46fda9587302ec734e7b\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What recent reports, if any, has she seen on the state of the electricity market, and does she believe Government policy has the ability to impact the market positively or negatively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022747ab8c14a024c4982c068219967b9a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022747ab8c14a024c4982c068219967b9a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen the report of the Electricity Price Review established as part of the coalition agreement that found that, under the structures of the previous Government, the market is not working for everyone, and that a two-tier retail market is developing, leaving vulnerable people behind. In answer to the second part of the member\u2019s question, this Government\u2019s policies are already having a positive impact. We have introduced a winter energy payment, helping over a million Kiwis heat their homes over winter and we\u2019re insulating thousands of homes under our Warmer Kiwi Homes initiative. We\u2019ve begun the electricity pricing review to ensure prices are affordable for families, and we are leading a transition towards affordable, renewable energy like hydrogen and away from expensive and vulnerable fossil fuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224032b85608344f4691d95ebfae0c3e74\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: So what is the average price for electricity futures per megawatt hour for December 2018, and how does that compare to the average of about $90 per megawatt hour for the last 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4be86c911a4698a1047479e3dbb17b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell that member is that the short-term issues that we are seeing around our electricity network at the moment, which are due to vulnerabilities in the gas supply issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209148186142a4d7c9891d64ac1fa0a0c\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae7f7e8db5d4534adaee54e8a6e298c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just finish the answer, Mr Speaker\u2014in the gas supply issue should see\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f640d72f5b6842b1ae814466f7c40589\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, hang on. If someone wants a point of order, they stand and they stay standing up. They don\u2019t sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e654bf555b2c46eda7d474e6e7a2cb2b\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you sir. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very specific question about what the average\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00a4d708e9e47e7886628ef09624688\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes, and the member hasn\u2019t finished her answer yet. The member might want to take a point of order at the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a4805c47704ca4a3caa1ef5b602caa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The short-term vulnerabilities that we are seeing at the moment in our electricity system due to problems in the gas infrastructure that is seeing around the $600 figure should return to the normal figure by December. The frequent reports that I am getting from officials are that these issues should be repealed. What I will also tell the member is that a new wind farm has a levelised cost of electricity around $60-70 per megawatt hour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d63970837c7a4f0eb435e837a2c34202\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that\u2019s enough, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febf718874344cd4a833864b54bbae0b\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are often chastened by not getting to the point, and the answer never came, but we had a complete monologue of recent events. I asked a very specific question that the Minister should be able to answer within one sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d593bb8b4660480c8872d9be270043b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And she did. It might have been buried in the middle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022018d415aec6d44bf85f30408b8bb012d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. There is not any chance, Mr Speaker, that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226246565065504160b52ebe2d098086b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Gerry Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224832ccca3b6f49f39ec5964621b5462c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh thank you for the recognition. There is not any chance that any analysis you might do of that answer would come anywhere near being an answer to the very specific question that was put in front of the Minister, and I think it\u2019s unreasonable to dismiss the efforts that have been to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc0385ae6e24971b46d5dc168484ae4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014sit down. Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347564397f2f42968d1536c81c2effb5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ec5611f9dd4226bbbf3e83a2bd4c89\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m requiring the member to sit down. He\u2019s made his point of order, and if the member had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229786ca37532d4da1a5032a6fd14a3898\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I haven\u2019t. I haven\u2019t finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022235ca9885f8c48cebebaf302eb1f6c69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve made all the point of order you\u2019re going to make at the moment. The Minister quite specifically said that she has been advised that electricity prices in December will return to their normal levels. If that\u2019s not an answer\u2014it\u2019s not only addressing it; it answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac1c7872f89434a87c922a14eedd625\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: What is the average price for electricity futures per megawatt hour for December 2018, as can be found on the ASX, and how does that compare to the average of about $90 per megawatt hour for the last 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a39f53102b4e548bbc3c8bf192ca83\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Given the complexities of what we\u2019re seeing in the electricity generation system, I am not prepared to answer that question in this House at the moment, but if the member wants to put it in writing, I will provide him with a full answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2470070f0e64c8c8ecad8cbafa3a4c9\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Shouldn\u2019t the Minister be paying close attention to the price of electricity futures given the signal they send about future retail prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6974d68fbec45778b2238d906c1ccc1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I can assure that member that what I am doing is paying very close attention to all the conditions around the security of supply in our electricity system. What I can tell the member is that one of the most important things to be monitoring at the moment is progress on repairs to the gas infrastructure problems that we are seeing at the moment, that I receive frequent updates on. I can also advise that member that I am receiving frequent updates on the levels of the hydro lakes, and I\u2019ll tell that member that hydro storage, as at 2 November, was at 62 percent of the historical average for this time of the year. The NZX energy data, however, that gives a daily update, indicates that over the past four weeks, up to 2 November, hydro storage was at 71 percent, and that is what a responsible Minister of energy should be monitoring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200882b8f98de4b78bd17818eeac17ace\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a most fascinating answer from the Minister. Perhaps you\u2019d like to tell the House what question she was answering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfffd4c185dd4cb5b43e185b15dfebc0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think we\u2019ll go 1-all there. I won\u2019t punish the Minister for her interjection during that, and I won\u2019t punish the member for his disorderly point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b29783348794f6ca95cd62421ce0e40\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If the electricity market will be back to normal by December, why has Genesis Energy ordered four shipments totalling 120,000 tonnes of Indonesian coal to be delivered between December and February?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b270c3e3c7894bab95af75ab3256dfb7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry, the member knows that that\u2019s not this Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7b8889d4da4c00b69e17ed9671e67f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has made a claim that the current problems are due to a gas shortage which will be alleviated by December. I\u2019m asking how she can reconcile that with other facts that she should be across.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f5a49349274ae485903e9c18f4b9c4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not what the member asked. He said, \u201Cwhy\u201D. He didn\u2019t ask how it could be reconciled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aebe2e340243412194c5dab29c06fb0c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The \u201Cwhy\u201D question goes directly to the prime purpose of having a Minister of Energy and Resources\u2014it is to make sure that there is security of supply in the market. Now, the question is\u2014and I think Mr Seymour\u2019s hit it on the head\u2014if there\u2019s no problem, as the Minister said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b22296eeecf4af7aa9d80a9ab97846b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept that\u2014that point of order is a much better one than the one we had previously. The Minister will address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222088a4a0566c485d9704d9dd5c2386be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, quite clearly, Genesis Energy does not have the kind of confidence in the infrastructure around the gas supply system that the Opposition and the fossil fuel industry seem to have. What recent events are showing us is what a precarious security of supply situation we\u2019re in when we need to rely on gas for peaking. That\u2019s why this Government is intent on building a resilient energy system with more resilient forms of renewable energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e8091ae4384e3ba9a04f55f972e3be\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be taking any action to guide Genesis to make better investment decisions, given they\u2019re clearly out of step with the rest of the market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391e36d9c4554af597a0a27608a64557\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: There have been decisions made already around the phasing out of using the coal Rankine units at Huntly. This Government is giving many signals and guidance to companies such as Genesis, such as carbon-neutrality by 2050. I think that provides more than enough system, and what this Government is doing in putting in place the long-term transition planning that is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239859ec0a6fc437a84f948417df5a408\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022975ec39416e04aa6b13a502b160b43dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022975ec39416e04aa6b13a502b160b43dd\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What reports has he seen on banking culture and conduct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00228e2a2cca37704ab5877a34e3943afa3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e2a2cca37704ab5877a34e3943afa3e\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E A review of bank conduct released yesterday by the Financial Markets Authority and Reserve Bank of New Zealand has identified instances of poor conduct by staff and weaknesses in bank processes to manage them. The findings of the report are a concern to the Government, as we want a fair banking system that is in the interests of all New Zealanders. Although the conduct and culture issues do not appear to be widespread, there are weaknesses within bank systems and controls that have resulted in poor conduct and instances of consumer harm. This is not good enough, and banks have their work cut out for them to address the problems of conduct and culture in the report and ensure New Zealanders have confidence in their banking system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022585d947ac6fa44269e99cd2db0b64947\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: What work is under way to provide reassurance to bank customers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a40839f1b634a13be8235896c214b76\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: We have had work under way since we came into Government in terms of changes to the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act to target irresponsible lending, the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, and also the insurance contract law review. We\u2019ve asked officials to begin work on where we should go post the report being delivered today if we need to take further regulatory action. The Government does have a role to play in strengthening the way the banks conduct, given their conduct within their own businesses. At the same time, the sector also needs to take a greater responsibility for ensuring that misconduct does not occur and needs to focus on long-term customer outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e714f2e56b40bf8ca141a4ca9a9c34\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for banks, regulators, and Government in response to the report\u2019s findings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f241f64813b4eea910cae0510b7153b\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government expects to see banks proactively address their conduct and culture issues. They will be receiving an individualised work programme from regulators and will report back in March, where they must provide their plan for addressing their shortfalls. I want to see better checks and balances in place to ensure poor conduct does not continue in New Zealand banks. The bottom line is that a New Zealand customer should get fair and appropriate treatment and consumers\u2019 needs should be put first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f525b5a94cfc412ab2bd54418908ebce\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f18f2270ce414179bce22c2a100c17b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f18f2270ce414179bce22c2a100c17b6\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Which Ministers, if any, have been provided with a copy or executive summary of the final report of the Government Inquiry into the Appointment Process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police, and when were those Ministers provided with those copies or summaries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u002209a44d5bbfd8445cb96679839cf932c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a44d5bbfd8445cb96679839cf932c5\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E My office delivered a copy to the office of the Prime Minister yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef7346319c947b2a81874e2040f1c5b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does the report of the inquiry into the appointment process for a Deputy Commissioner of Police recommend that the appointment process be reopened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270911b4a453e446db255c677e089e550\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I will not discuss any recommendations\u2014for or otherwise\u2014inside the inquiry until the full process of the inquiry, around its release, has been clarified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d9bbebcb471413fa7c9115a0bd7377d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is she comfortable with the fact that the confidential versions of all information and correspondence provided by police, the State Services Commissioner, the Department of Corrections, the Ministry of Justice, the Minister of Police, and Deputy Commissioner Haumaha will be suppressed until 2 November in the year 2068?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33c4202d07b4b70a870df7e8c84264d\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member has misunderstood, as the members of the press have misunderstood, the chair\u2019s posting up on the Internal Affairs website. That is around transcripts and information that was provided for her to actually write the report. That is what the suppression is: transcripts and so on. That is what was put inside the Inquiries Act by the previous Government to ensure that people who we need to come forward have confidence to give testimony in an inquiry and can be confident around their privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adbe435225024878aadf311040ecab7d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Will she be discussing the report and the next steps the Government will be taking with the State Services Commissioner and/or the Solicitor-General?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235fe836fbf8e4275abfe11d46178b6a2\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: My office is currently taking legal advice around the process to hand over to the Minister of State Services and the process with which to do pre-releases to those who need to see the report\u2014e.g. those who participated in it\u2014and then when that report will be released. We are trying to release the report as quickly as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226030d725b63a4a7888caa34e257895da\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f24e1ebe47e4f0c8e20156a9552d6d4\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022218ce9475013423094f7fe1a9b97f514\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022218ce9475013423094f7fe1a9b97f514\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for: consideration in committee of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill; the third reading of the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill; the third readings of the Family Violence Bill and the Family Violence (Amendments) Bill; and the third reading of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002276e03c094bf341bb80c096af4cde356e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8387de57c0245c4b84680b4de358a2d\u0022\u003ECrown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290fc43e04fc349b3be2a70b996e220ee\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7080864464e499c873a446c25e48ea2\u0022\u003EPart 1  Substantive provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00225d61171e4c5046488fbfa9253fc5218b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d61171e4c5046488fbfa9253fc5218b\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to take this opportunity in the debate on Part 1 to have a look at some of the issues raised by submitters during the select committee process, and highlight some of the changes subsequently made to the bill. With the title and commencement clauses\u2014clause 2 being the commencement\u2014some submitters requested that the commencement of the bill be delayed to allow for further consideration of the policy decisions that led to the bill. My response is that any delay in commencement would undermine the policy intent of the bill. Simply put, this Government is committed to taking the action and providing the certainty that we need, and the vast majority of submitters on the bill supported that approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of Part 1, \u201CSubstantive provisions\u201D, clause 4\u2014interpretation\u2014was something that was discussed at some length in the Environment Committee, and an issue was raised about the definition used for the onshore Taranaki region. In particular, this area follows the political boundary of the Taranaki region rather than the geological boundary of the Taranaki sedimentary basin. I\u2019d like to make two points in response to this. The first is that the area in the bill captures all areas of current onshore petroleum production\u2014so what is currently being drilled is already caught in that area. The second is that the intention around allowing exploration to continue in onshore Taranaki was to support a transition, which includes the potential for new discoveries, to make use of existing production and transmission infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other issue that was brought up at the select committee was clause 5, applications for permits, and clause 6, allocation by public tender\u2014I\u2019ll take these two clauses together. Some submitters raised an issue around flexibility and sought to retain greater flexibility for the Minister to exercise discretion regarding where and when permitting can occur. My view is that this flexibility would only lead to uncertainty around where new petroleum exploration could occur. The Government has taken a very clear position that there should be no new petroleum exploration permits issued outside the onshore Taranaki region. The only exception to that is for permits issued subsequent to an existing permit. This approach provides the most certainty around new exploration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOther submitters raised issues around the matters which we were asked to take into account when considering permit applications\u2014for example, that climate change could be a factor. Such a change would represent a significant departure from the status quo. Our position is that this bill is focused on giving effect to the Government\u2019s recent changes to new petroleum exploration, and that changes that go beyond this are outside the scope of this tranche one of changes. So, they\u2019re some of the changes that were outlined and have been effected, and I\u2019m sure I will respond to more of those as we go through this committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022b931600bfcec4fe4b45ca12be3500d01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b931600bfcec4fe4b45ca12be3500d01\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much to the Minister for giving us that preamble. I guess, in some regards, when the Minister discounts climate change mitigation as a policy purpose for the bill, I want to just highlight in the commentary, in the second paragraph, \u201CThis bill is one of several initiatives that seek to aid New Zealand\u2019s transition to a low-carbon economy in line with the country\u2019s international commitments.\u201D And so it can\u2019t be separated. It can\u2019t be divorced from that purpose. Certainly, I understand that to write that into the bill would be problematic; however, the policy purpose of these changes seems to be quite clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI want to come to the Part 1, clause 4, where section 2 talks about the onshore Taranaki region as being the area that\u2019s constituted as that which is able to receive applications or bids through a block offer for expiration permits. It\u2019s significantly unclear, in the bill and the preamble and any commentary that we have received prior to, the differentiation between offshore and onshore. To say that it\u2019s maximising current infrastructure\u2014well, of course, any company would want to do that. But we also understand that, in regard to the offshore 2018 block offer that people were expecting, there were nominations of around 39 different particular areas. So to say, as the Minister has said in the past and the Prime Minister has also said, that offshore block offers in the past couple of rounds have been poorly subscribed to\u2014well, of course, that occurs, because it is more expensive. And, secondly, it is during a period of time where the price for oil went below $30 a barrel\u2014quite significantly lower\u2014and so it became an economic choice rather than a resource choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECurrently, New Zealand has 50 percent of its resources offshore, 50 percent onshore. And so we would say that consideration around offshore and onshore, and the differentiation\u2014it has been unclear why the Government has sought only to choose onshore Taranaki. Yes, I acknowledge that, in some respects, the Minister has talked about a transition\u2014and, obviously, the industry is based there\u2014but the industry has also looked beyond there in the past, and there is certainly enough evidence and enough data to suggest that there is opportunity beyond regional Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhen we look at regional Taranaki\u2014perhaps some of my questions to the Minister will come as we go through this committee stage\u2014we do understand that there is a very defined boundary for regional Taranaki, as is mentioned here in the bill. The Local Government (Taranaki Region) Reorganisation Order 1989 depicts boundaries, but what is interesting about Taranaki, and looking at this boundary between offshore and onshore, is that the first sightings of oil evidenced in Taranaki were actually in that middle space. It was on Ng\u0101motu Beach in Moturoa in Taranaki where oil seeps came through the sands. So, actually, making differentiation between onshore and offshore is\u2014well, if you look back in history, to 1865, it\u2019s really interesting that the first discoveries of oil were on the beach, in the border between. Significant discoveries have been in both particular areas. It\u2019s known that, even in pre-European times, M\u0101ori discovered and saw the evidence of oil seepage not only in onshore Taranaki, on the beach, but also in other regions on the East Coast, as well. If you look at the history that New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals put up in terms of the history of New Zealand\u2019s oil and gas discoveries, it\u2019s particularly interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear and obvious to the Minister of Energy and Resources that the National Party opposes this bill. We oppose it on many grounds. But going back to some of these introductory remarks that are in the commentary, there is the issue there around achieving New Zealand\u2019s climate goals. And I put it to the Minister and to the committee, and I would like an explanation on constraining exploration to onshore Taranaki: what will that do to achieve a climate goal for New Zealand, particularly when we understand that New Zealand produces around 131,000 barrels a day, which is mostly exported? If we were to cut off the supply of that, or reduce it severely\u2014this bill\u2019s final intention would be to do that; it would be to close it down and make this a sunset industry\u2014then we would no longer be able to supply that to the world market. And will that make a significant difference to the goals of climate change mitigation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries runs a daily excess of two million barrels a day. And it\u2019s a little bit like this: if I put my hand in the ocean and pull it out\u2014if I pull my hand out of the ocean\u2014it will be filled instantly and there will not be left a gap. And it\u2019s the same issue with New Zealand\u2019s hydrocarbon exports. If we withdraw from the international market by trying to constrain only into the Taranaki region, excluding all other regions, excluding offshore, and think that that is going to make a dent in international demand and take up, we\u2019re mistaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo what we have here is a bill that seeks to reduce the area where this activity can take place, with the intention that, as the Minister has said, it\u2019s going to fulfil these wider and deeper obligations. But it won\u2019t. And so, in a sense, all that we are achieving here is what this party says is virtue signalling. We are saying that we are prepared to create such pain, such disruption\u2014we are prepared to end an industry for a goal that we will not reach. And I think that that is poor governance and poor decision-making and certainly is an effect of the lack of consultation that\u2019s taken place through this whole process. At least in the committee stage we get to go through it clause by clause, and, hopefully, the Minister will be able to stand on her feet and answer the many questions that we have, to validate this piece of legislation, to try to convince not just us but New Zealanders why it\u2019s so important when, in fact, it doesn\u2019t achieve some of the big goals that she and her party and the coalition members are seeking to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know what the goals are of New Zealand First, because this is the party across the way that, in terms of the onshore Taranaki region\u2014actually, they\u2019ve now got a huge expectation. How can you find a replacement in terms of the just transition the Minister speaks about for 4,500 direct, and another 3,000 indirect, jobs that come from an industry that actually powers New Zealand\u2019s economy? And if we don\u2019t have them powering our economy, we will import the product from somewhere else. We\u2019ll pay somebody else\u2014give them our economic value. We will have higher levels of hydrocarbons just to get the product here. So, actually, we are defeating ourselves at multiple levels, and I look forward to contributions from across the Chamber. I certainly look forward to what the Minister has to say about these particular issues. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00229c6af8408e03431b84ed70d12949e3da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c6af8408e03431b84ed70d12949e3da\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The time caught me a little bit there. I rise to give my first contribution in the committee stage. I would like to draw my comments around, obviously, Part 1 and an area that Jonathan Young has already begun our conversation on this afternoon, and that is section 23A in clause 5, which is focusing on limiting exploration to Taranaki\u2014in particular, onshore Taranaki. So the question that, I guess, sits at the core of our policy discussion this afternoon is: what are we seeking to achieve by this restriction? Now, the Minister of Energy and Resources is on record saying that this is part of New Zealand\u2019s so-called leadership position in impacting global emissions from a New Zealand perspective, but she is particularly silent on global demand with respect to oil and gas. So my question to the Minister is, surely, when we are reflecting on whether we should constrain New Zealand\u2019s economic potential with respect to extracting oil and gas, the first key question that we should ask ourselves is: what is the global demand for gas looking out into the medium term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EOne would assume that if you hold a policy view that is to restrict New Zealand\u2019s economic potential with respect to this extraction, it needs to be hung off some commercial advice with respect to the place of gas in that global demand. Now, the Minister may have different figures than what I am aware of, but I\u2019d be interested to hear it. What I read is that looking out to 2040, there is a 40 percent increase in expected demand globally for natural gas\u201440 percent. In fact, by 2040, natural gas is going to be the single largest fuel source globally. Now, I\u2019d like the Minister to challenge those figures and potentially table the advice that she has received that challenges that\u2014that that is indeed the global demand with respect to natural gas. Our advice on this side is very clear: it\u2019s a critical part of the global energy mix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe reason this is so important is that if the global demand is demonstrably significant for natural gas, why is it that New Zealand would be constraining its ability, looking out over the next 20 to 30 years, to extract that natural gas and, obviously, make significant export receipts from that? It\u2019s half a billion dollars, currently. We have reflected previously in the debate around this issue that if this proceeds, we are talking about $7.9 billion of lost export receipts, potentially as high as $23 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo we need to be clear around what the policy objectives are here. If the view is that the natural gas, which we believe is a critical part, is not going to be a critical part, then we would like to have an understanding of that and to hear specifically from the Minister what data and assessment and modelling she is relying on that suggests that New Zealand, despite what we can see is happening around the rest of the world with other gas-producing countries\u2014they see the opportunity in supporting natural gas as a positive. They see it as a commercial imperative for their people and their countries, and they see it as very much part of their climate change narrative. That in particular is an issue that I would like to return to as we reflect on, I guess, a series of core questions that Part 1 brings into sharp relief, which is: what actually is the policy objective here in simply constraining oil extraction and gas extraction to onshore Taranaki? They are my first series of questions. I have many more others to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00225164aea306884eb18ad57818a14e524f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225164aea306884eb18ad57818a14e524f\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a couple of clauses that I\u2019d like to talk on in this, Part 1 of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. One is a clause that was introduced during the select committee process, and that\u2019s clause 6A. It\u2019s going to amend section 25 of the Act, and what it does is it restricts what the Minister may do. Now, in clauses 5 and 6 of the bill as introduced, a number of restrictions were introduced as to who might apply for an exploration permit and what tenders the Minister might accept. So you might think that that was sufficient protection to stop ongoing offshore oil exploration, but the committee, on the advice of officials, elected to take a belt and braces approach and to add clause 6A, which amends section 25. As well as restricting who may apply for a permit and the offers, and which tenders the Minister may accept, it also says \u201CThe Minister must not grant a permit for petroleum in respect of any land outside the onshore Taranaki region\u201D. So, that does restrict the Minister\u2019s actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m quite interested to hear from the Minister what her views are on this belt and braces approach, as to why we needed this additional restriction in the Act\u2014so not only who might apply for a permit, and which tenders the Minister might accept, but also that extra restriction on, actually, what permits the Minister might not grant. So it\u2019s a restriction on the Minister\u2019s activities, and it does add a real extra layer of protection. I\u2019d be interested to hear the Minister\u2019s comments on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOne other issue was raised extensively by many people who supported this bill in submissions, and that was their concern for the protection of the great treasure in Taranaki, the maunga, Taranaki the mountain, which the residents of the province\u2014and indeed I, as someone who was born and bred there\u2014hold in great affection and very high regard, and not just the maunga, but also the Egmont National Park. Many, many people who made submissions were concerned that\u2014well, even if onshore exploration is going to be permitted, they absolutely wanted to be assured that the maunga was protected, that there would be no exploration and no drilling under that great treasure, Egmont National Park, which cloaks Taranaki and the maunga. So I\u2019d be interested to hear the Minister\u2019s comments on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, the Environment Committee didn\u2019t introduce any changes in that regard, because we felt that the protections that were there were sufficient, that there is restricted access to conservation land, and that access to Egmont National Park is, in fact, already further restricted by the Minerals Programme for Petroleum. What it means, by the time you have that minerals programme as well, is that no prospecting, exploration, or mining activities could occur in the National Park. But I think that people at home and people listening along to this, particularly the people who submitted on this bill, would appreciate hearing from the Minister that that protection for Taranaki\u2019s treasure is guaranteed under this bill and under the resulting Act. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002249ab00725f0a4c77bc7611c079cd571d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249ab00725f0a4c77bc7611c079cd571d\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to take a call on this bill. I\u2019d like to take a slightly different tack. Part 1 clearly is the substantive provisions of the bill\u2014who can apply for a permit and where\u2014and the submitters that we heard from in the Environment Committee spoke quite clearly and in unison around the process and the lack of time that they had to submit, and the lack of time they had in select committee to give their views around this, Part 1. I\u2019d like to speak about one of those in particular which I found quite concerning, and I want to hear from the Minister in the chair about what she thinks of the process and whether or not we need, perhaps, to go back to select committee. There was a gentleman that came to speak to us by the name of Paul Rishworth, chairman of the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2014the body responsible for advising Parliament on policy and legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EHe raised serious issues with the bill and the bill\u2019s process. In his submission he said that the submission process around Part 1 was inadequate, and further said that \u201CThere is no suggestion that an extra week or two in the legislative process or in the select committee process would have [had] a major adverse effect.\u201D So my question to Minister Woods is, really: why wasn\u2019t it considered that there were an extra couple of weeks available to us to hear from more submitters and to hear for a longer period of time from submitters around this substantive part of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe submission from Paul referenced Treasury\u2019s analysis of the bill, which said, \u201C[D]ue to the time limitations and analytical constraints arising from Cabinet\u2019s previous decisions, MBIE did not consult the petroleum industry and the public on the proposals.\u201D His submission pointed out that this showed the limitations and constraints of having such a short consulting period. And we saw this in submissions from others\u2014many others\u2014who complained of a lack of time to prepare and the very short time that we in select committee allowed for them to be able to present, either five minutes or 15. Frankly, it was embarrassing. I felt, and members on this side who sat in on that process felt that to be hearing from CEOs of major companies and major industry bodies who only had 15 minutes to present and to answer questions, and to cut them off at the last second was, frankly, embarrassing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe Minister was quoted in the media as saying that there were a couple of thousand submissions, and therefore the short time frame was fine and those who wanted to have a say got to have a say. She was quoted in the New Zealand Herald as saying, \u201CThis is something [that] we announced in April. The Prime Minister and I have been meeting with communities and the industry since April and have been having discussions about it.\u201D Well, this flies in the face of what submitters told us in select committee. They said that there wasn\u2019t enough time, that there were a lot of people that they knew of that didn\u2019t have time to submit, that because we didn\u2019t go to Taranaki there were people in Taranaki\u2014businesses and individuals\u2014who didn\u2019t get to have their say, and that the time they had to make their submissions was far too short.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EPowerco said in their submission that \u201CThe Government did not consult with stakeholders prior to making its announcement on 12 April ... Nor has it consulted on the development of the Bill\u201D\u2014despite what the Minister said. \u201CThe Bill [was] placed into urgency,\u201D which means the select committee process \u201Chas \u2026 not allowed for meaningful consultation with [the] affected industry or the public.\u201D That\u2019s what Powerco said. So there were a number of industry organisations, and businesses, and submitters who felt that they hadn\u2019t been consulted, despite the Minister\u2019s claims. So I\u2019d like to ask the Minister whether or not she feels that this process has been fair to the industry and to the people of Taranaki, given that we didn\u2019t go there, given that we only gave them two weeks to take a look at the bill and to make submissions, given the fact that we only gave them five or 15 minutes in select committee, and given that the overwhelming feeling of all of the submitters against the bill was that the process was flawed and was undemocratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOne of the things that the Prime Minister and the Minister have said is that they rushed this process because of the block offer, and I\u2019d like the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods, to advise us whether or not she had had representations from the industry and the industry bodies to say that they actually didn\u2019t mind if that block offer was put off in order for the select committee process to be pushed out. What we heard from many of the industry organisations was, in fact, that they didn\u2019t mind whether the 2018 offer was, in fact, pushed out. In fact, we learnt that the 2018 block offer wasn\u2019t even going to happen in 2018. In fact, it\u2019s not happening until next year. So the question for the Minister in the chair is: why the rush? We didn\u2019t need to have all of these submitters complaining about this undemocratic process and the shortened time frames, because in the end the block offer isn\u2019t happening until next year, and the industry is more than happy for that to be pushed out. I would like to ask the Minister in the chair: why the rush? Why did we need to be in this situation, having CEOs of companies being cut off to the second by the chair in an embarrassing and appalling manner, when there was no need for this rush\u2014when there was no need for urgency? That was made quite clear by the industry bodies that came to talk to us. They were more than happy to have that pushed out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EFurthermore, I would like to ask the Minister in the chair\u2014we know that advice wasn\u2019t gained by the Minister prior to the announcement. We know that the regulatory impact statement came after the announcement. We know that there\u2019s been no cost-benefit analysis. We know that there hasn\u2019t been a lot of consultation done in Taranaki. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister in the chair whether or not she thinks that this process has been a good, thorough, democratic process, and whether or not she thinks that the Minister needs to, in fact, get far more information around the lack of investment that\u2019s going to be happening in Taranaki and the loss of jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ECarbon leakage\u2014we asked that question in select committee about carbon leakage, about what would happen when we would be, in fact, importing more oil and gas from overseas, from countries which, frankly, don\u2019t have the environmental standards that we have in this country and what that would mean to global emissions. One of the things brought up by the submitters was the fact that although this sounds nice, the effect, in reality, is that global emissions are likely to rise from this policy\u2014and that was actually made clear by MBIE as well\u2014because it\u2019s not doing anything with demand. That was something that came through quite clearly in the submissions, as well. I\u2019d like the Minister to actually talk to us today about what is going to happen with demand, because she\u2019s said quite a lot about the reduction in global emissions from this bill, but, in fact, the advice has been to the contrary. With the uptick in petrol tankers and the uptick in importation of natural gas to this country, it is most likely that global emissions will rise, and that\u2019s what carbon leakage is all about. Just because we stop producing it here\u2014it\u2019s got to be produced somewhere else, and the likelihood is that global emissions will rise because of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo there are a number of questions for the Minister, mostly around process and whether or not she thinks that in fact, because of the thousands of people that we didn\u2019t get to talk to and that didn\u2019t get to submit in Taranaki, that haven\u2019t had their say\u2014should we go back to select committee? Secondly, should the Minister now get a lot more information, especially around carbon leakage? We asked that question, and an answer hasn\u2019t been forthcoming. Is she going to get more of a cost-benefit analysis? And does she have information around the potential job losses and lack of investment in the Taranaki region? We have yet to see that information. We\u2019ve been asking, and we haven\u2019t seen it. It\u2019s all been nice words and virtue signalling and fluffery, but what we\u2019re asking for are the details. We\u2019re talking about a huge region, thousands of jobs\u2014highly skilled, highly paid jobs\u2014and a bill that is, in fact, most likely going to have the opposite effect to its intent. I would be keen to hear the Minister\u2019s answers to those questions, and I will be back for more shortly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00221fe0e3072a494e9ba2189af615e360fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fe0e3072a494e9ba2189af615e360fe\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak on this bill, which is a distressing one for many of us on this side of the Chamber, because it will have such an impact on our economy, on our living standards, and in particular on the region of Taranaki\u2014all for very unspecific and unthought-through potential goals. So we\u2019re looking at Part 1 here, which stops the exploration offshore anywhere and retains some work onshore in Taranaki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIf we go back to this whole process, it was announced on the fly by the Prime Minister a couple of days before her intended global audience to announce it. There was no broader cost-benefit analysis, or any analysis whatsoever underpinning that judgment and that decision. And then, after the decision was made and it was announced, the Government decided to go through the process of actually legislating and consulting with the industry affected, which is an appalling way of doing things. I struggle to remember such an egregious example of Government behaviour in recent times. And so this whole process has been a sham.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe select committee process, which has been truncated by this Minister, Megan Woods\u2014truncated by this Minister to the point of ridiculousness\u2014has been carried through, and this whole process has been carried through, in a sham-like way because the Government has already decided what it was going to do. You might say, \u201CWell, does that matter?\u201D Well, it does matter. Look at the eye-watering potential costs\u2014I\u2019m holding the regulatory impact statement, which does various modelling and thinks that the potential cost in terms of just the revenue that the Crown will be forgoing might range between $1.8 billion and $26 billion over an extended period, with the mid-range being about $10 billion. That\u2019s the fiscal cost to the Crown. Then it may be, in terms of the company profits that could be affected by this, somewhere between $200 million and $2 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut what about the broader economic costs for the New Zealanders employed in the industry, the economic costs of more expensive energy, and all the many potential ramifications of this decision. Well, they haven\u2019t even tried to calculate that. The regulatory impact statement says, \u201CWell, we didn\u2019t try to do it, but they could be substantial. The broader economic contribution of the petroleum sector to the national economy has not been modelled, and we can\u2019t work out just what this is going to cost.\u201D So here we are, blundering in\u2014for the sake of a speech from the Prime Minister\u2014to a decision, the costs of which we have no idea, but they certainly run into the billions and billions of dollars. Now, OK, you might do that if there is a clear benefit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb6f32220564bd0af78ba86772bfc99\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Billions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f47b87dd9314eda98b7221584af2446\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Billions\u2014that\u2019s right. \u201CBillions.\u201D, as Shane Jones would say. You might do that if there is a clear and obvious benefit, but all the indications are that this decision will lead to higher climate global emissions from the New Zealand economy. Why? Because this bill does nothing to have any impact on the behaviour of New Zealanders using the energy. It makes no impact on what energy they use; it only makes an impact on what we produce. If we continue to use as much energy, we\u2019ll just have to import it from somewhere else, and the net impact is worse for the climate. So it costs a huge amount\u2014potentially a colossal amount. There are no clear benefits whatsoever other than virtue signalling by the Prime Minister in front of audiences around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut the final thing is the wider cost to New Zealand\u2019s reputation and attractiveness as a place of investment, because New Zealanders will only get the opportunity to have good quality jobs and to live fulfilling successful lives if we have a strong economy. That strong economy relies on investment\u2014investment coming domestically, but from around the world. Well, who is going to invest in this country from around the world if you have a Prime Minister that\u2019s prepared to chop off at the knees a major industry without any proper process and without any analysis before she makes that decision? Anybody might well ask, \u201CWell, I\u2019ll invest in another industry, but who knows what the Prime Minister might decide to knock out next.\u201D And that sense of uncertainty and unpredictability that this Government has demonstrated since it\u2019s come into the office is the biggest cost of all, and on that basis, I\u2019m shocked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00229722f3225e8f407baa71d015971f58da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229722f3225e8f407baa71d015971f58da\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The first question that I have for the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods, is: can she recite any decision in any portfolio area as important as is in Part 1 of this bill, in which a decision has been announced without any Cabinet process whatsoever? Can the Minister cite me any example in the last 20, 30, 40 years where a Government has announced such a huge change in public policy without even going to Cabinet? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI was gobsmacked when my colleague from New Plymouth said, when the Government had made the announcement, that it hadn\u2019t gone to Cabinet. I said, \u201CHey, Jonathan\u201D\u2014Young; Jonathan Young, the MP for New Plymouth\u2014\u201Cbe careful. I\u2019ve sat in the Cabinet room for 12 years. I\u2019ve never heard of a Government making a decision without going to Cabinet. I don\u2019t think that can be true.\u201D And when I found out that what Jonathan Young said was correct\u2014that the Government was prepared to make a decision with implications of over $23 billion and not even go to Cabinet\u2014I said, \u201CHas this become a sort of banana republic? Have we become some sort of laughing stock, that we are prepared to give up basic processes of Government?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI see Mr Kris Faafoi\u2019s in the Chamber. He might be able to answer me. Can he recall any decision of the scale of what we have in Part 1 of this bill that has been made without even a discussion or a paper in Cabinet? I say that\u2019s extraordinary\u2014I say that\u2019s extraordinary. I say that\u2019s an embarrassment, and I want the Minister in the chair to answer: why were these decisions in Part 1 of this bill never even considered by Cabinet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThen the second question I want to come to, and I\u2019m just flummoxed by this: anybody who\u2019s been engaged in the debate around climate change realises that the number one issue for us is around coal\u2014that coal has the highest level of emissions, that coal historically has played the biggest role in the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and in the global warming that has occurred to date and in the global warming that is projected to occur into the future. So why, when coal is the biggest problem, is the Minister in the chair preoccupied with shutting down gas? It just makes no sense. In fact, if we look around the world to where the most progress has been made on climate change it has been where we have expanded natural gas to reduce the amount of emissions from coal. That\u2019s what\u2019s occurred in the United States with the development of the new gas industry around fracking. That\u2019s what\u2019s enabled countries like the UK and Germany to make some of the best progress of any country in reducing emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo where I am completely lost, as one who takes the issue of climate change so seriously, is why do we want to shut down gas when, actually, it is such an important transition fuel and when our number one priority should be in terms of reducing the use of coal? To put it quite simply, we\u2019ve got large numbers, and my colleague Barbara Kuriger\u2014a person who comes from the dairy industry\u2014would know that a good amount of the dairy industry\u2019s energy sector comes from coal. And if the Minister in the chair was promoting a policy that would substitute that coal with natural gas, my colleague could understand it, I could understand it, my good friend Jonathan Young could understand it, but to shut down natural gas, as is proposed in clause 6 of this bill, simply does not make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe third issue is that the entire slogan of the environmental movement has been \u201CThink globally, act locally.\u201D Where is the global thinking in this provision? If New Zealand just imports its petrol, its diesel, and its gas, we don\u2019t achieve one iota for the issue around climate change. All we\u2019re going to do is damage our economy, import our petroleum, and do nothing for climate change. And I will not have a bar of such loopy policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff68daa5cde249f3b3083219232fbd9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff68daa5cde249f3b3083219232fbd9f\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I stand today to speak to the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. I want to make it really clear from the outset that this side of the House does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI\u2019m talking today to Part 1, section 23A, amended by clause 5, regarding the application for permits. Now, we\u2019ve heard a lot about the process of the development of this bill and the select committee process, but in response to the Hon Nick Smith\u2019s contribution, the revelation that Cabinet did not even consider this leaves me wondering: how did the whole of Government find out about this? Was it actually at the announcement when the support parties were actually informed about this? This is a shocking process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907a3f4bbb7348d7a8a829bc4deac542\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Democracy! Democracy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac13cb130b64aa8ac940c7086e315f2\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: Shane Jones yells out, \u201CDemocracy!\u201D You ask the people of Taranaki if they feel like they\u2019ve been part of a democratic process. I can tell you that they do not, sir. They do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, this Government is not only turning off the tap\u2014quite literally\u2014for the Taranaki region, they are actually making it a sunset industry for the whole of New Zealand. There are other areas in this country that are closing the door on this and the next provincial success story that could come out of natural oil and gas. There are areas around this country that are not even explored yet. Where are we going to find the next success story like Taranaki? Well, actually, we don\u2019t know, because this Government has put a doorstop on it. Does the Government know what lies off the south-east coast of \u014C\u0101maru, 60 kilometres out? I\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s offshore there: 5,700 jobs, $32 billion in royalties to the Crown, and that community will now never realise the opportunity to bring that to fruition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIf I think about my own area of West Coast\u2014Tasman, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Where there is coal, there is usually gas. Sometimes coal gets a bit of a bad rap, but out of those coal seams comes coal seam gas. The Minister in the chair, I\u2019d like to ask: this bill, in effect, prevents the capture of that coal seam gas, so what is going to happen to that as a by-product of this bill going through this Parliament? I suggest that the gas now has to be released into the atmosphere. What on earth does that do for our global emissions, our carbon emissions? Absolutely nothing. In fact, it makes it even worse. And these are the types of situations we find ourselves in when we have not had the expert input into the development of this bill from the very outset. So, Minister, I would be very keen to hear from you about what the proposed intention is around the capture of coal seam gas, because there are a number of prospective resources on the West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, the venting of these gases into the atmosphere is a total waste of a resource when, in fact, we could be turning that resource into electricity or heat generation. And it\u2019s not dissimilar, I would argue, to the Nelson situation, where they capture their landfill gases and they use them to heat the hospital boilers. That\u2019s just an example of what happens when you truncate a process and when you don\u2019t involve the experts, and we are left in a situation of unintended consequences simply because there was a priority to make a grandstand announcement on the global stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EWe have heard today already about the energy crisis coming to this country, and even a question today from David Seymour relating to the 120,000 tonnes of coal that is on its way from Indonesia to fill what could be a gap in our electricity supply by the end of this year. This is a nonsense bill, and I\u2019ll be back to talk about other parts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa2e3f6ab7b348669b4c50d5cf5a2c17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa2e3f6ab7b348669b4c50d5cf5a2c17\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Andrew Falloon to take the next call, could I ask an honourable member, please, to do something with the unattended file boxes that are sitting on the Opposition side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u002264fb379761c044b3a8e5d7d3b3fa69b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264fb379761c044b3a8e5d7d3b3fa69b4\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to be joining my colleagues this afternoon on this side of the Chamber in opposing this bill. I sit on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee and, unfortunately, we weren\u2019t called on to consider this bill. Usually, we do look at Crown minerals bills; in fact, we have a Crown minerals bill before us at the moment. But, unfortunately, this bill went to a committee where the Government has a stronger majority. So this is the only opportunity that I\u2019ll have during the committee stage to scrutinise the legislation. I intend to take numerous opportunities to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI want to focus my initial comments on Part 1 of the bill, clause 5, which inserts a new subsection (2)(b). It says, \u201Ca person may apply under this section for a prospecting permit for petroleum, or a mining permit for petroleum, in respect of any land in the onshore Taranaki region only:\u201D. And so my first question to the Minister this afternoon is: why have they specified Taranaki and not included any other regions within that? I understand why the Minister has probably done that, and I guess I support it to an extent that there is a very strong and functioning oil and gas industry in Taranaki. It accounts for about 41 percent of their GDP. So to safeguard some of that for the time being, I think, on this side of the House, we do have some support for, but the concern that we have is that no other regions have got the opportunity to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EMy colleague prior to me, Maureen Pugh, mentioned the Barque gas development off the coast of North Otago and South Canterbury, and my concern as the MP for Rangitata is the impact that this bill will have on somewhere like Timaru. If that gas development had gone ahead, it would\u2019ve be a huge boon for the South Canterbury and Timaru area. And so to have this bill, which specifies only onshore Taranaki and leaves out every other region in the country, is, in my view, wrong. And in a debate just a few days ago we had the Government accusing this side of the House of picking winners. Well, my concern is that they\u2019re picking some regions to be moderately successful in the short term, and leaving other regions like South Canterbury out in the cold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EMy next point I wanted to make was that during the debate on the first reading, we had MPs on the other side talking about the environmental impact. This is the reason for this bill, apparently: the environmental impact of oil and gas on climate change. And we had Deborah Russell, during that debate, accusing us of backing the burning of the planet. She mentioned several times that we supported the burning of the planet. Well, my question to her, and, I guess, for the Minister as well is: what is it about onshore Taranaki petroleum that doesn\u2019t affect the environment? Because what they\u2019re saying is that it\u2019s fine for onshore Taranaki to continue to have permits allowed for, but not for any other region in the country. So I ask the Minister in the chair, and any member opposite who\u2019d like to take a call: what is it about Taranaki onshore petroleum that doesn\u2019t have an impact on the environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe second point I\u2019d like to make in relation to environment is just what impact this bill will have. We\u2019ve heard at length from members opposite that the reason they\u2019re doing this is because we need to be a world leader in climate change and we need to substantially reduce our carbon emissions. And I think, on that latter point, most members on this side would agree with, but this is not the bill to do it. And the reason for that is that this bill will lead to an increase in the short to medium term of carbon emissions. And the reason we know that is because it sees it and the Government\u2019s own advice. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s own advice to the Government literally quotes \u201CThe net impact on global emissions is uncertain but more likely to be negative than positive.\u201D So emissions in New Zealand will actually increase with the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EAnd the reason for that is very simple, actually: it\u2019s because we\u2019re going to rely more on coal. And my good colleague Maureen Pugh down there is screwing up her face because I know she\u2019s a big supporter of the West Coast coal industry, as am I. But there\u2019s no doubt that coal has a greater impact on the economy than natural gas. The Government opposite are talking about banning the exploration for gas and, in the short to medium term, that\u2019s going to lead to an increasing reliance on coal and will increase our emissions\u2014as the Government\u2019s advice says to them and, unfortunately, they haven\u2019t listened to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo this bill doesn\u2019t stack up from an economic perspective in Taranaki where they\u2019re going to shut down all offshore what exploration. It doesn\u2019t stack up from an economic sense for any other region in the country. And nor does it stack up from an environmental perspective, because the Government\u2019s own advice says that it will lead to an increase in carbon emissions in the short to medium term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022503af1d320a947c88e8327696aaac5f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503af1d320a947c88e8327696aaac5f9\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to make a couple of points on Part 1 of this bill, and a particular reference to the commentary on this bill and the introduction, which kind of goes, really, to what the heart of this bill is\u2014and it says it in black and white\u2014which is that it\u2019s one of several initiatives. So it\u2019s not the only initiative to aid New Zealand\u2019s transition to a low-carbon economy, in line with the country\u2019s international commitments. The other key word there is \u201Ctransition\u201D, which, I think, is a pretty important word. And listening to the debate coming from the other side of the Chamber this afternoon, one would think that this is all happening tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo the points that I want to just quickly touch on are that this is the first tranche of it. It\u2019s a bill which has a narrow scope. It\u2019s the first tranche of a review of the Crown Minerals Act and is only to give effect to the Government\u2019s decision about oil and gas permits. Listening to the flowery, over-the-top language coming out of the Opposition, on the other side, one would think that it was all about to happen tomorrow. Tranche two is a much wider review of the Act that will enable stakeholders to take part in future-proofing the Crown Minerals Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIt was also strongly signalled. The Prime Minister said in one of her first interviews after being elected that this might be the last block offer. It\u2019s also very strongly about leadership. It\u2019s the right thing to do. We\u2019re not going to stick our heads in the sand like the previous National Government and the existing National Opposition. And, really important, it\u2019s a carefully managed transition over 30 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne final point is that, with regards to the submission process, with all of the 95 submissions that were heard, many of them came in through technology\u2014this thing called \u201Ctechnology\u201D: through Skype, through video link, through telephone link from other parts of the country. And people did get a good hearing. They were treated very fairly. And just reinforcing that this bill has a narrow scope, and it was strongly signalled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc55feb2f8cf4bd78dbf52ff8323aed7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc55feb2f8cf4bd78dbf52ff8323aed7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to take a call to respond to some of the questions that have been put by members in the committee. The first question that was asked\u2014one of the fundamental questions that has been asked\u2014was what is the policy objective that the Government is trying to achieve here. Well, that\u2019s something that is very straightforward and something that we have been talking about since before we made the announcement back in April of this year, and that is that we cannot afford an economic shock in this country. What we need to do is we need to put in place the long-term transitions where we know there are economic changes ahead that climate change is bringing, and that is what this is about. This is about making sure that we don\u2019t pull the rug out from underneath communities and individuals, but instead we are putting in place now the planning and we are starting that transition. One of the things that we are very aware of as a Government is that a transition has to start somewhere. A transition isn\u2019t just a continuation of the status quo. A transition means that things need to change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMembers on the other side have, rightly, raised questions around the jobs and where jobs are going to come from. The member from Taranaki, Jonathan Young, has talked about the 4,500 people who are directly employed in the Taranaki region, and the 11,000 indirectly employed. Well, one of the things that I know that that member is aware of is that, actually, this is an industry\u2014particularly the indirect jobs\u2014that has been shedding jobs over the last few years. We have seen a number of engineering works shut down in the Taranaki region as a downturn in a market as volatile as the gas industry hits. So what we want to do is make sure that we don\u2019t go through what this country went through in the 1980s by not putting in place the planning early enough, but that we can get on the ground in Taranaki\u2014as we are\u2014and we can put in place the replacement industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThat goes directly to one of the issues that both Maureen Pugh and Andrew Falloon raised. They talked about lost opportunity in relation to the Barque prospect. I think one of the things that I would like members in the Opposition to understand is that all the existing exploration permits will be honoured, and that includes the Barque prospect. It means that that can still be progressed from exploration to mining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, I have also made some comments in recent weeks about how we will work with individual permit holders around hitting a bit of a pause button on the drill or drop provisions. We understand that there has been some change and that companies might need a year or two in which to readjust themselves to the new environment. I have invited all permit holders to get in touch with us\u2014and many have\u2014around hitting the pause button around those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of the concerns of those members, I can understand those concerns that Maureen Pugh and Andrew Falloon were outlining, but I\u2019d like to reassure you that those permits will not be dropped. I think something everybody has to realise is that we could still see drilling for oil and gas from the 100,000 square kilometres that we already have in exploration permit off the coast of New Zealand for decades to come, and that\u2019s something that we have to bear in mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, another issue that was brought up was the issue around the security of supply. The Opposition members seem to be labouring under a false assumption that this Government\u2019s plan once we stop using oil and gas is to burn other fossil fuels. That certainly isn\u2019t our plan or our intention, but what we are embarking on\u2014and the Government is doing the work\u2014is around making sure that we are putting in place the planning to get to 100 percent renewable electricity. I would point members to work that has been done, like a recent meta-analysis of 18 large-scale post - carbon economy transition strategies. It found that looking at 18 of these in a meta-analysis way showed that technology and costs are not the key barriers to making these transitions. They listed three of the major roadblocks as being climate change denial, the fossil fuel lobby, and political inaction, and those are things that we cannot be guilty of in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard Nick Smith talking about what happens in the UK and Germany. Now, New Zealand is in a very, very fortunate position in the abundance that we are blessed with in terms of the access to renewables. Not only do we have the hydro, which has been invested in over many decades in this country, but we also have wind, we have solar, we also have geothermal, and we actually, at times, have an abundance of renewable energy, which opens up real economic opportunity for us in things such as hydrogen. Countries that have an abundance of renewable energy can certainly make use of those. Todd Muller brought up the lost\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16b0a0ad532426c83beca7c235bdd31\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMull-er\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270b9cac44d9048bb83dedb4a822403c5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Muller\u2014sorry to the member. He brought up some of the lost opportunities there in terms of the ability to export. Well, I\u2019d like to just point out to that member that at the moment, we don\u2019t export our gas. We do not have LNG facilities in New Zealand, and, in fact, the latest LNG facility that was installed in Australia cost tens of billions of dollars. Now, in the entire history of the oil and gas industry in New Zealand, no one has been willing to invest in that infrastructure to put in place an LNG facility so that we can export. So I think to say that these are things that sit out there in the never-never is something that we need to move past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut what I also want to address is a really real issue, and that is the issue around the fact that somehow we\u2019re too small to do anything as a country in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022260e56cf9e774c1abe18972d2f0d7781\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Never said that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7603413487142769a58f788c0ee34cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: No. Jonathan Young, in his contribution, said that we were very small and what we did didn\u2019t make\u2014well, what I\u2019d like to point out to Jonathan Young is that the 197 countries who signed the Paris Agreement create less than 1 percent of the world\u2019s emissions, but together, collectively, we make up 20 percent of the world\u2019s emissions. That\u2019s as much as Europe or China. No country can sit back and say they don\u2019t have to do their bit. [Interruption] Well, Jonathan Young was saying that we were too small to matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other question that has been put is about carbon leakage and the fact that we\u2019ll simply transfer production from New Zealand to a country where there are higher levels of emissions. Now, this is an argument that\u2019s come through a lot in this debate, both from the Opposition and from the oil and gas industry, but I think one of the things that we have to realise is that the world is changing, even from 12 months ago. What we see is that China is currently trialling seven different versions of emissions trading schemes, which they have said will move to be comprehensive schemes in a very short space of time. China is ahead of its Paris peaking target and is already moving to shut down coal in some of its cities. I think what we have to move to understand is that when China does roll out its comprehensive cap-and-trade system\u2014which will be in place by the time that New Zealand finally gets to not be producing oil and gas\u2014what we won\u2019t be able to do is simply put in place production in China without taking something off, because they will have that cap-and-trade system, which, in many ways, is more comprehensive than our own emissions trading system, which does not have a cap on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo there are many reasons for us to be very optimistic about our future and to think about what opportunities sit in front of us, and renewable energies offer us key opportunities. But one of the things that I want to leave this committee of the whole House with is to realise that transitions have to start somewhere. They aren\u2019t just the continuation of the status quo. Continuing to do the same is not a transition; it\u2019s just keeping on doing the same. What we are doing in this Government\u2019s bill\u2014what our object is\u2014is to make sure that we are beginning that long-term, managed transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00229c3dbc12a0184364b632f758e879ffdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c3dbc12a0184364b632f758e879ffdc\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair. Thank you very much. Parts of that contribution from the Minister were absolute gobbledygook, and I know that some of my colleagues on this side of the Chamber and I were listening intently, trying to make sense of what she was saying. It was clear at one stage, when she was shuffling through her notes, that she\u2019d got herself completely lost and utterly tied up. Well, I say to that Minister: if that was an attempt to answer some of the very serious and well-informed questions that have been put to her by members on this side of the Chamber, she failed dismally. Even more importantly\u2014and I\u2019m sure that people listening throughout the great Taranaki province at this moment will be saying to her\u2014if that was intended to give assurances to that province, they will be deeply disappointed in what that Minister had to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, I am not a member of the Environment Committee, and I\u2019m not a Taranaki member of Parliament, but as a proud member of the neighbouring region, the mighty Waikato, I feel very proud to stand up today in support of our sister province, in defence of one of the most important industries not only in their region but which their region is able to show leadership for throughout our country. I\u2019m particularly pleased\u2014I say this while Jonathan Young is in the Chamber\u2014that both his great province of Taranaki and mine, of Waikato, have had a recent run with the Ranfurly Shield. So sorry we took it away from you! But we won\u2019t go any further\u2014we won\u2019t go any further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ELet me get back to Part 1 of this particular bill, because I want to pick up on a couple of the things that have been covered and, in particular, to emphasise what an outrageous, truncated select committee process the Parliament and the country have been treated to. This is a very important issue, and members of the National Party have fought a very good fight in recent times to try to stand up for the interests of that region, of that industry, and of our nation, and it was with absolute disbelief that we heard that this whole process was being truncated, rushed through the House, in such a cavalier fashion. Industry bodies have asked\u2014and deserve answers to\u2014the question of why they were treated so shamefully. This was not only a process that had been rushed; it was shambolic. It was disingenuous on the part of this Minister and her Government. It is potentially very damaging for our climate change efforts, to which we are commendably subscribed as a small country. It is hugely damaging to Taranaki\u2019s economy and to our overall national interest, and the Minister has not answered any of those very real concerns in her contributions so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Paul Goldsmith noticed, this was a decision that was announced on the fly by the Prime Minister on the eve of her international trip. It was all about appearances on the world stage, and what a shameful thing it was to put our national interest at risk for a photo opportunity on the world stage. With no cost-benefit analysis having been undertaken, or even requested, it seems\u2014not even requested\u2014and in a manner that even by this Government\u2019s inept and disastrously low standards makes New Zealand not admirable on the world stage but a laughing stock. To act in such a cavalier, irresponsible fashion which will lead to increased global emissions is not just embarrassing but disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, the Hon Clare Curran a few moments ago seemed to think that by arguing that this is \u201Cnot the only\u201D\u2014I think I wrote her words down correctly\u2014\u201Cbut one of several measures to reduce carbon emissions\u201D makes it defensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe91b2e39974de1b5115c67d3f49324\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s what the commentary says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3606bed2744785949226c2afac41b1\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It may be what the commentary says, Ms Curran, for your particular point of view; it does not in any way deal with the very real concerns of people affected by that decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMs Curran went on to describe Opposition speeches as being flowery and over the top. Well, I say to that member that I have heard this afternoon, for the last hour or so, very well-informed and strongly argued contributions from Jonathan Young, the Hon Dr Nick Smith, Todd Muller, Erica Stanford, Andrew Falloon, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, and Maureen Pugh. I think I\u2019ve got them all\u2014yes, Maureen Pugh. All of them\u2014all of them\u2014have been extremely strong and well argued. None of them have been flowery, none of them have been over the top; they\u2019ve all been focusing on the very, very real, very serious concerns that this disastrous measure places before the committee. So for Ms Curran to suggest that National\u2019s reaction to such a rushed and undemocratic announcement was over the top adds insult\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00222bff06878fb54f4a871c6b35886da579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bff06878fb54f4a871c6b35886da579\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022042ba6b3f1b1467c8c7bb9dc6fb43284\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022042ba6b3f1b1467c8c7bb9dc6fb43284\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s with great pleasure that I speak to this bill. I hadn\u2019t intended to today, but as I reflected on my first year in Parliament, I have to say that this is the worst piece of process and legislation that I\u2019ve seen in this House\u2014the worst process, the rush, and the lack of any proper analysis. Minister, with the greatest respect to you and your position, there is no pathway from an energy perspective in this decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been hearing questions in this House, today even, about peak electricity prices. The Minister Megan Woods answers those by saying there is a problem with the infrastructure. Well, there will be a problem in New Zealand, all right, when there is no gas whatsoever. It won\u2019t matter what the infrastructure is. What we\u2019ve got today is just a small example of what could happen in the future. When we have no gas\u2014and I hear the Minister saying there is plenty of prospecting\u2014New Zealanders will face a choice: blackouts or importing more coal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo far from this current Government, I haven\u2019t heard that there is a ban on coal importation into the future, or that somehow we\u2019re going to stop all the exploration of coal, because what we have in this country is, on best evidence, 10 years of gas supply at its current usage. Yes, there may be permits and there may be exploration, but it takes a long time for that to come on stream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn my view, this process has been corrupt. On this side of the committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62b96bda8964b14b96203392316f675\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I caution the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9932305b13e4622a9b7c6881c3afd94\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Chair. On this side of the committee, we are willingly and with the best of intent seeking to get an accommodation and agreement with the current Government on a climate change commission. My colleague Mr Todd Muller is working hard to achieve that with the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. If this process had any integrity, this very decision would have waited and gone through the climate change commission. It could\u2019ve probably been looked at by the technical experts that are going to be put into this commission. If at that point the commission had then said it made sense to ban oil and gas from a time in the future that was agreed, then this side of the committee would not be having this argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe problem is, in this very instance, the Prime Minister went overseas, made a decision pretty much the night before, which even shocked the Hon Shane Jones\u2014which is quite a difficult thing to do, but it even shocked the Hon Shane Jones\u2014and now we know: no Cabinet paper, and the analysis from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment simply says that in the medium to short term this could be worse for the environment than the status quo. So in my view, all this is about is blind ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe Minister did not like what I said about the process, and it might be on the margins, and I apologise for that unparliamentary language. But my point is this: when there is no integrity in the process, then you end up with a result that is not in the best interests for New Zealand. It is my view that that\u2019s exactly where we\u2019re going. That is the path we\u2019re going down. We are going to ban oil and gas exploration in this bill. At some future time when this bill kicks in, when all the investment has been scared off and when we run out of gas, guess what\u2019s going to happen. The New Zealand public is going to have to deal with a very difficult choice: do we import more coal or do we turn the lights out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EGas, particularly from my perspective, is a great and fundamental transitional tool. Yet we\u2019ve lost an opportunity to use that in seeking out our energy futures, and, quite frankly, the answers that the Minister in the chair has given today have given me no confidence whatsoever that this has been thought out. This side of the committee is thinking about the future of New Zealand\u2014the future of New Zealand\u2014where that very difficult trade-off will have to be made, between turning the lights out and importing more coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022433a28cc4426401db1386ed077d51b26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022433a28cc4426401db1386ed077d51b26\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002297d87a85fc324b7b90ee18603b217b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297d87a85fc324b7b90ee18603b217b92\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I, firstly, want to respond to the naivety of the Minister Megan Woods in her assessment of the impacts of Part 1 on the oil and gas industry. What the Minister said is, \u201CHey, don\u2019t worry that we have arbitrarily cut off at the knees any exploration, because we are still going to allow the development of petroleum through mining and through development petroleum permits.\u201D Minister, here\u2019s the problem: if the Government can wake up one day, without any Cabinet process, and just arbitrarily cut off exploration\u2014why would any business invest tens of millions of dollars in a permit when the Government could wake up tomorrow and decide to do with petroleum permits what it\u2019s done with exploration permits? They just don\u2019t get it. They don\u2019t get the idea that when you make arbitrary decisions, you completely undermine business confidence\u2014not just, Minister, in the area of the oil and gas sector but, actually, right across the economy. On that, you are wrong, you are naive, and you are doing enormous damage to jobs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97fb25a1dba43e3b414c135a8e37f0b\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Fake news! Fake news!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02102a9a3a4481e85960c27b5e1fe68\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022445d87333bdf4106b521a8edbff2edb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e6c5c4f0a5420b87759e137872dc43\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e7d625cb8341d1989f1bed38b214d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022310a3dc0120c48a5801d8a13fa9f95e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The second point is so relevant, in hearing Mr Jones chip in. He said that this was a democratic decision. Well, let\u2019s test that. Can I ask Mr Jones: did he campaign in the 2017 election on ending oil and gas? Do any of my colleagues recall that? Mr Jones, was that your position at the last election? In fact, I remember Shane Jones saying, \u201CNew Zealand First will stand shoulder to shoulder with the oil and gas industry.\u201D That\u2019s what they said. Well, can the member opposite count? Actually, with the Opposition and the party policy positions of the National Party and when New Zealand First was being true to its word\u2014actually, a majority of people voted for parties that are opposed to the very policy that is here in Part 1, and it is anything but democratic for the dodgy deal that\u2019s been stitched up with the Greens. Let\u2019s be upfront here: there was a quid pro quo. New Zealand First got the waka-hopping and the Green Party got the ban on the oil and gas industry, and that was anything but democratic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the third part of Part 1 that I want to refer to is just for the Minister in the chair to acknowledge the scale of what is being done. Does she agree with my assessment that clause 6, effectively, is going to ban exploration in 4.3 million square kilometres of New Zealand\u20144.3 million square kilometres? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I know the Government\u2019s trying to shut down this debate, but we should be very clear in this committee that we are talking about banning any exploration in an area that\u2019s 20 times the size of the land area of New Zealand. We\u2019re talking about the fourth-largest exclusive economic zone in the world. This isn\u2019t tiddlywinks. This is truly massive, and the exemption provides for only 7,300 square kilometres. It\u2019s not 1 percent. Effectively, the Minister in the chair is banning any oil or gas exploration in 99.9 percent of the realm of this country. That comes with an economic cost of nearly $24 billion, and I want to see some acknowledgment from the Minister of the scale of what is being done in Part 1, because I haven\u2019t seen any of that in her contribution. I hear naivety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt reminds me that the last Labour Government promised to reduce emissions. They went up by 20 percent. They promised to be carbon-neutral. I compare that with our own record in Government, where renewable electricity increased from 65\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022f92c2448a9fe465a9575724860cbd95f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f92c2448a9fe465a9575724860cbd95f\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to come to clause 7 and speak to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 150 in my name. As I go back to the announcement on 12 April, the Prime Minister released a press statement, and attached to that was a fact sheet. In that fact sheet, she said\u2014and the Minister in the chair has said it time and again\u2014that permits will be protected. In that fact sheet, it said \u201COil and gas permit holders have a number of existing rights under law which will continue following today\u2019s announcement, including:\u201D\u2014and I\u2019d just like to highlight one in particular\u2014\u201CExtensions of land to which the permit relates\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ENow, there is a provision in the petroleum programme which states that if a permit holder has made a discovery, the Minister will grant an extension of your land. So if you can imagine that they have a permit area, for example, the size of the Table in front of you, Madam Chair and Minister, and there was a discovery at the very edge of that. Then, that company could go to New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals and go to the Minister and ask for an extension of land for that permit, because the discovery of that field would extend beyond the permit. This says here, in 12.4 of extension of land area of permit: \u201C(4) If the permit holder has made a discovery, the Minister will grant an extension of land, subject to the holder agreeing to an appraisal work programme that is satisfactory to the Minister, where the Minister is satisfied that: (a) the discovery extends beyond the boundary of the permit area,\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ENow, what we have is a promise from the Prime Minister, reiterated by the Minister of Energy and Resources, that now that we have a very constrained area, which is onshore Taranaki region, if there was a discovery on the boundary of that region with a field that extended beyond it, it, essentially, means that they cannot fulfil their obligation and their word to the industry. So what I am proposing in this SOP is that the Minister may grant\u2014if I can read out what I have in new subsection (2A): \u201CHowever, the land to which a permit for petroleum relates cannot be extended to include any land outside the onshore Taranaki region\u201D\u2014that\u2019s as it currently reads\u2014\u201Cunless\u2014(a) the extension only relates to land that is contiguous to the onshore Taranaki region;\u201D\u2014so that is land that is immediately connected to that boundary\u2014\u201Cand (b) the discovery originated from permitted activity within the onshore Taranaki region.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ENow, this is the status quo\u2014this is as it presently is. So what I am saying is that that boundary of the Taranaki region ought to have some flexibility ascribed to it, rather than be hard and fast, in keeping with the Prime Minister\u2019s promise and the Minister of Energy and Resources\u2019 obligation that permit rights will be protected, as was stated in the fact sheet attached to the Prime Minister\u2019s speech on 12 April.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think that is unreasonable to ask. It\u2019s extending what the Minister has prescribed in the bill, but it\u2019s creating an ability for consideration. In fact, in 12.4 of the Petroleum Programme, it actually implies there that the Minister does have an obligation, because what it states is that if a permit holder has made a discovery that extends beyond the boundary of a permit area, \u201Cthe Minister will grant\u201D. There is a further section that says that if a permit holder\u2019s application to an extension of land is based only on seismic or other geotechnical information and not an exact discovery, then \u201Cthe Minister may grant\u201D and gives a lesser sense of obligation, but certainly an obligation to consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo I am asking the Minister to consider this. This is a serious Supplementary Order Paper, which I believe would give a degree of flexibility. The problem is that if they don\u2019t have this, then will they explore within the closeness of the boundary? Probably not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00221e1ef750124141baa8775ccf21cc0b07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e1ef750124141baa8775ccf21cc0b07\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to take a very quick call to respond to the member Jonathan Young on his Supplementary Order Paper 150. I advise the member that we won\u2019t be supporting that Supplementary Order Paper, and that is for a very simple reason. Our policy has been very clear that the purpose of this bill is to restrict the offer of further exploration permits to onshore Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, the member advances an argument that the oil and gas industry have also brought up with me in the time since we made the announcement in April. The conversation that I have had with them around that is that what we are doing in this bill are the things that we are required to do to give legal effect to the decision of the April announcement, and this is what we are calling \u201Ctranche one\u201D. Tranche two of changes to the Crown Minerals Act will be more broad-reaching, where we will consider a range of things, and I have invited them to continue the conversation, both with myself and with officials, around that very point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I invite that member, in terms of thinking about that and in terms of contributions he might want to make to any work that we do around tranche two changes to the Crown Minerals Act, but in these very restricted and tight changes that we are making in tranche one of the amendments, we won\u2019t be accepting that Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00229c4785b4b697478a9d85602ec0f58a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c4785b4b697478a9d85602ec0f58a74\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014finally\u2014Madam Chair. It seemed like I wasn\u2019t going to get a call, but thank you for recognising me and giving me an opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ERight at the beginning, I would like to flag the fact that I want to have a conversation about the \u201Coffshore\u201D definition in clause 4 in Part 1. But before I get to that, I\u2019d like to speak or at least react to the comment that was made earlier by Minister Megan Woods in relation to what this Government and her announcement in relation to this particular bill was. I think she actually said something along the lines of \u201CThe decision was to prevent economic shock.\u201D I was floored by that comment. I thought that when a Government makes a decision and makes an announcement on policy that wasn\u2019t even consulted with the industry or the region, or that even had a Cabinet decision on such a big issue, it was going to create an economic shock\u2014that it was going to create the loss of thousands of jobs, and I think someone even mentioned that the indirect job loss was going to be more than 10,000 jobs. I was floored by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EShe talked about wanting to be more, I guess\u2014getting away from coal-powered generation. I think I remember, in a speech that I made, that when we look at alternatives to coal\u2014I\u2019m not suggesting we stick to coal, but the thing is that there needs to be a plan. I know that Maureen Pugh is a huge supporter of the region, and I understand that, but we need to actually grapple with the issue of security of energy in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOne of things that I actually mentioned was that in order to create one wind turbine, for example\u2014and I know the Minister actually mentioned wind as an alternative\u2014it needs 270 tonnes of steel; 270 tonnes of steel to create one wind turbine. And to create that amount of steel needed to create one wind turbine, it needs 300 tonnes of coal to make that amount of steel. You sort of wonder whether it is really an alternative that is actually very green. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI remember, earlier\u2014my colleagues have actually mentioned about the process and the lack of process at the Environment Committee. Companies have actually invested millions of dollars, and wanted to come to the select committee to present their case in opposing this legislation and there were literally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230813e7026c847adaa5474d7a540b85d\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: 10 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfec6a8018b045ba846f20ed87ba9968\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: 10 minutes in select committee. I would have thought that when people come from all over the country, wanting to comment about a particular bill\u2014I just wonder what the rush was by this Government in order to actually hurry up. I digress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI wanted to talk about clause 4\u2014the definition in relation to the \u201Conshore Taranaki region\u201D. There are a number of parts of this definition that need the examination of the committee. The Crown Minerals Act 1991 defines \u201Coffshore\u201D as \u201Canywhere that is the seaward side of the mean high-water mark\u201D. This seems to be a very pretty straightforward definition. However, I sort of wonder\u2014I mean I\u2019m not much of a sea-going person. I don\u2019t really know what that \u201Cmean high-water mark\u201D actually means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI guess, you know, when the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research has a paper titled \u201CGuidance Notes for the Determination of Mean High Water Mark for Land Title Surveys\u201D, I guess what it actually means is \u201Cthe line of medium high tide between the springs and neaps\u201D\u2014I have no idea what that actually means. I wonder if the Minister understands what that mean high-water mark actually means to everyone. I think one of the definitions is \u201Cthe foot of the cliff\u201D; another one is \u201Cthe toe of the bank\u201D\u2014the \u201Cedge of vegetation\u201D. To a layperson, who doesn\u2019t really know much about what that mean high-water mark actually means, I would like an explanation of what the Minister actually understands to be the definition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAnd just to\u2014I\u2019ve got 24 seconds\u2014for the benefit of my colleagues who actually quoted Mr Shane Jones for his support of the democratic process that this Government apparently took, when the announcement was made by the Prime Minister, I would like to quote the honourable member\u2014[Member puts head in hand] How do you quote that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022731495dddf7a47e69cf49bd4490fae3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022731495dddf7a47e69cf49bd4490fae3a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard a large number of claims about the process in the Environment Committee. A number of members, including some who actually weren\u2019t even in the room, have been commenting on the process and claiming that it was difficult, unfair, and that people were cut off short. I just want to clarify some of what happened in the committee so that we need not traverse this ground again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the claim just recently from the previous speaker\u2014that submitters were allowed only five minutes for individuals or 10 minutes for groups. In actual fact, we allowed five minutes for individuals, as is usual with select committees, and 15 minutes for groups. So that was quite a generous time allowance. I\u2019d also like to point out that, as a way of trying to be as fair as possible to submitters, as chair of that committee, I did keep people very carefully to that time. I warned them that I was going to do so. As their time came to an end, I asked them to finish and I did move them on very quickly. I did this because opinion was so polarised on this bill. I knew that I couldn\u2019t extend people\u2019s time, because it would be seen as unfair; so I made sure we were as fair as possible to each submitter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, Opposition members on that committee actually commented to me at the end of it on how fair and reasonable a process I\u2019d made. So I am mystified at the claims that are being made in the Chamber right now. And the people who were in that room will know the truth of that claim. But for those who weren\u2019t in the room, I would like to remind them that the submissions process\u2014the hearing process\u2014is all live-streamed on Facebook, so there\u2019s actually a record of what happened in that select committee room and of the way that we tried to treat every single submitter with fairness and respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, in light of all the claims that have been made about the process in that room, in light of all the claims have been made about whether people who wanted to make oral submissions were heard, I\u2019d just like to put what I recall of the process there and say that we heard from every single submitter who asked to be heard. We made every single effort to hear them, to bring them in from all around the country via technology to give everyone their opportunity. And so with respect, Madam Chair, I think that this matter has been dealt with sufficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002217370f435bea48048a8bce77e4e8a366\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217370f435bea48048a8bce77e4e8a366\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I would like to speak to Supplementary Order Paper 148. It is similar to the previous one but has a slightly different application to it. As the bill states in clause 8, then down to new section 50A, \u201CRestricted access to Taranaki conservation land\u201D, in subsection (3), \u201CHowever, this section\u201D\u2014which restricts access to Taranaki conservation land\u2014\u201Cdoes not prevent prospecting, exploration, or mining carried out below the surface of Taranaki conservation land in accordance with section 57.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to apply that same parallel to where there is ordinarily schedule 4 land, which can\u2019t have access, and here this bill creates an opportunity for exploration mining as long as it is below the surface and does not impact the surface at all. In Supplementary Order Paper 148, what I am seeking a consideration for is that the Minister may grant a permit for petroleum where the mining operations are entirely located on land within the onshore Taranaki region, regardless of whether the petroleum being mined is located within or outside the onshore Taranaki region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOnce again, looking at that previous Supplementary Order Paper, which talked about how a field may extend, we know today that there are huge scientific improvements and technological improvements in terms of drilling technique. It\u2019s often called \u201Chorizontal\u201D drilling. We know that, for example, at Pohokura there\u2019s been horizontal drilling to Kupe, to Maari, and to different places, where a drilling platform may be in one position but may target another position that could be three or four or five kilometres away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo if we are prepared to say in this bill and the Minister is prepared to allow conservation land to have that style of exploration take place under it, although not on it, why would the Minister not allow for that type of exploration and that technical horizontal drilling to occur beyond the Taranaki border, even though it is located within the Taranaki onshore border? Because that might be a solution to the issue that I raised before, where it comes to a field, a reservoir, or whatever, that seismically has been located beyond the onshore Taranaki region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOnce again, it is ensuring that those activities that actually seek to do that exploration occur within the Taranaki region, but what is subsurface can be a different thing. I\u2019m not suggesting that that subsurface go to offshore, because it\u2019s explicitly in the bill that that is not a consideration, but some flexibility\u2014whether the Minister is going to respond by saying \u201CWell that may be part of consideration of tranche two.\u201D or not\u2014I do think is worthy of consideration, considering we have an exemplar here of what will occur or could occur in conservation land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESurely, sort of rough Taranaki scrubland is no more important than conservation land. And so I\u2019m proposing that we look at this amendment here in Supplementary Order Paper 148 to grant what\u2019s considered to be \u201Crunning room\u201D\u2014a current practice, a current understanding, a current process by which the hydrocarbon sector can operate, and currently a regime that is in play with New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t seem to me to be outrageous or outlandish; it seems to be reasonable, and I would invite the Minister to consider this Supplementary Order Paper, because I believe that what it does is create that flexibility that will enable that investment that companies make to be able to be protected. And one of the things that she has said in terms of part of her policy background of this is to maximise the infrastructure and the investment cost for the sake of New Zealand and those companies. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022684055896cd94ad89484ae3214a99f39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022684055896cd94ad89484ae3214a99f39\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022e285117da1e14626a099a1dae73b23de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e285117da1e14626a099a1dae73b23de\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It\u2019s with pleasure that I will make a short contribution on the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill, whether for five or 10 minutes\u2014the latter being urged by Andrew Falloon, but perhaps he\u2019ll be urging me in a different direction once he\u2019s heard the content of what I have to suggest, along with some other members of the House, perhaps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to focus on clause 4 of the bill, which relates to section 2 of the principal Act, which is in relation to interpretation and more particularly the phrase \u201Conshore Taranaki region\u201D. Now, in the bill it\u2019s proposed by the Minister of Energy and Resources and her Government that this be defined in a certain way, which I\u2019ll come to quite specifically in a moment. My colleague Melissa Lee asked some very intelligent questions about exactly the meaning of some of these words, and it is significant because the application of the Act, as amended, as it will become if this passes, will be affected by exactly the areas that we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo onshore Taranaki region, then, \u201Cmeans the Taranaki region as constituted by clause 4 of the Local Government Taranaki Reorganisation Order 1989, but excludes any part of the region that is offshore\u201D. I emphasise the final word \u201Coffshore\u201D because the meaning of that isn\u2019t actually particularly clear in this amendment bill. And so we can actually look, of course, in the Act itself, and we see there a definition of offshore as being, and I quote, \u201Canywhere that is on the seaward side of the mean high-water mark.\u201D Seaward, meaning on the side, of course, of the sea rather than the land, in the same way that leeward and windward are opposites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just pause for a moment to note that this is an area of my life which I have in a previous professional life spent some time agonising over as a navigator with the navy. So I appreciate and understand that actually lives are at stake when it comes to understanding exactly the definition and understanding of where water and land intersect. So what then is offshore? And we have that definition in the Crown Minerals Act, but that, in turn, leads us to ask the question: what does the phrase \u201Cmean high-water mark\u201D actually mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESome concerned citizens and I have been looking into this question with some enthusiasm, and we\u2019ve noted that there\u2019s a paper from the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research in the early 1990s that provides guidance along those lines. It was published by the professional development committee of the New Zealand Institute of Surveyors. It actually goes back to the common law cadastral boundary definition, so as between, again, the land and the sea, as being, and I quote from a case in 1854 between the Attorney-General v Chambers\u2014whoever or whatever \u201CChambers\u201D might have been. \u201CThe line of medium high tide between the springs and neaps\u201D\u2014\u201Csprings\u201D being the tides which are at their greatest or lowest extent corresponding to full moons or new moons, and \u201Cneaps\u201D being all those other tides. So on a sine curve, such as we can use to represent tides coming and going over the course of a year\u2014our springs being at the greatest extent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo again just reminding you, Madam Chair, and anyone else who\u2019s still following with interest at this point, we\u2019re talking about the definition of \u201Coffshore\u201D, which specifically helps to define the exclusion within the \u201Conshore Taranaki region\u201D definition in the bill. And so we\u2019ve got a legal definition by that particular item of case law from a century and a half ago but also some advice of chief surveyors that talks about the foot of a cliff, the toe of a bank, the edge of vegetation, or, my personal favourite, a line of driftwood as being indicators of where the mean high-water mark might occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister then, noting all these possible different understandings, is whether she agrees with any of those types of definitions for what a mean high-water mark might mean. Bearing in mind that that in turn will define what will be \u201Coffshore\u201D for the purpose of section 2 of the principal Act in defining onshore Taranaki region. So if she can give some guidance on that. No doubt there won\u2019t be any changes to the legislation on the basis of me having asked these questions. I don\u2019t seek that; I merely seek some clarification so that the record will state when this bill comes into the law, as amended, as it inevitably will\u2014it seems then we\u2019ll at least know what we\u2019re dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022390fa7312b3c4e03abbdc9483d1c122f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022390fa7312b3c4e03abbdc9483d1c122f\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b2465ff2ddd46ba89a674758a292227\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000357\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 151 in the name of Gareth Hughes to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000358\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000359\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 148 in the name of Jonathan Young to clause 6A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225550f2cbbbe64812ad92ee1d36740f3a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000360\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 149 in the name of Jonathan Young to insert new clause 6B be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d3a85defd84404e89d8a6798476f48b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000361\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 150 in the name of Jonathan Young to clause 7 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a74a1cd062d449bfaa164684e293362f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226cc2c7b415b14af289c6e33f61cc6d9a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab05871bebb843988d83b50921c75aa9\u0022\u003EPart 2  Further provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00223cab67492b3d4361855fac4cd57ea4c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cab67492b3d4361855fac4cd57ea4c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2, the debate on clause 9 and the schedule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c52479ce960c4df9962606d79f039c48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c52479ce960c4df9962606d79f039c48\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Like I did with Part 1, just with Part 2 of this bill I want to go through some of the changes that were made to this legislation by the select committee. In this part, which is a new clause 22 being inserted into schedule 1 of the Crown Minerals Act\u2014if we look at that first, it is new clause 22, \u201CInterpretation\u201D, new clause 23, \u201CExisting permits unaffected\u201D, new clause 23A, \u201CApplications for subsequent permits unaffected\u201D, and new clause 23B, \u201CSubsequent permits unaffected\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Environment Committee made a number of very technical changes to the new clauses 22 and 23, and these changes were to further clarify the Government\u2019s policy position that the changes in the bill are only intended to apply to new petroleum permits and not existing permits. The policy intention of the bill, as we traversed in the debate on the last part of the bill, is to ensure that those with existing petroleum permits, with subsequent permits to their existing permits, and with applications relating to either, are unaffected by this bill. I think that\u2019s something really important that we spelt out as explicitly as possible in these provisions in the bill. As such, new clause 23 was amended and new clauses 23A and 23B were inserted to make that even clearer, and I thank the committee for that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is incredibly important, because what we have to realise is that this bill does not signal an abrupt end to petroleum exploration in New Zealand. What it does is signal a managed and long-term transition to the end of petroleum exploration in New Zealand, and when we say \u201Cmanaged and long-term\u201D, we are talking 20, 30, 40 years down the track. Indeed, there are a number of exploration wells that are to be drilled in the coming years, and one is currently being drilled. If these are successful, permit holders will have the same rights and privileges as they do now, before this legislation has passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other change that was made here was new clause 24, where existing applications for permits for petroleum were determined in accordance with the Act as amended. Some submitters raised a very valid issue around the retrospective application of this new provision, and I think it is important to be clear about what this provision does and why. The provision does not affect existing rights, but, rather, affects the outcome of any application process that might already be under way. I\u2019m advised by my officials that there are currently no such applications, but there is always potential for an application to be lodged at any time. Should an application for a new permit be made today, for example, it would have been made with awareness of this bill, and, as such, it would be considered under the Crown Minerals Act as amended by this bill. The provision reduces the potential for the policy intent and objectives of this bill to be undermined by people rushing before the new provisions commence to make applications on the basis that the old law would apply to those applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENew clause 26 is a very specific provision, and this clause allows current proceedings in the High Court between Greymouth Gas Turangi Ltd and the Minister of Energy and Resources to continue as if the amended Act had not been enacted. The bill as introduced included an incorrect reference to these proceedings, which was, helpfully, corrected by the Environment Committee\u2014so thank you very much for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENew clause 27, \u201CChanges to the minerals programme\u201D\u2014the minerals programme set out, of course, how a Government will exercise specific powers or discretions and will interpret and apply specific provisions in the Crown Minerals Act and the associated regulations. They are intended to provide guidance and support the implementation of the Act. The intention of this new provision is to enable a minerals programme to be updated with only those changes necessary to give effect to the bill without triggering the obligation to provide the notice and consult provisions under sections 17 and 18 of the Act. It was never intended to enable the introduction of new policy; it is simply around the provisions in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EHowever, some submitters raised issues with the way the provision was worded and whether the word \u201CConsequential\u201D might lead to new policy changes being made as a consequence of the bill. The Environment Committee tightened the wording around this provision to ensure that it can be used only in the way that was originally intended\u2014that is, around the provisions of this bill and not further policies. Under the revised bill, the only changes affected by this provisions are those that insert information into the programme to explain the effects of the amendments made to the Act by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I thank the committee for the work that they did around these very technical clauses that we\u2019re going through\u2014very technical and very specific clauses\u2014in Part 2 of the bill. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002298eade91e3404660af358f98ced8b0df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298eade91e3404660af358f98ced8b0df\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your comments in terms of managing long-term transition. Before I just come to some substantive comments around Part 2, can I say that this transition has been taking place for a considerable period of time, and the hydrocarbon industry certainly engaged in that and have been for some time. So while I appreciate that the Minister is saying 20, 30, or 40 years down the track, there has always been a commitment\u2014especially in latter years\u2014to consider the issues around climate change and to reduce emissions, particularly in the exploration and the production sector, which is what we\u2019re looking at, who currently generate about 2 percent of New Zealand\u2019s emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EComing to new section 23, \u201CExisting permits unaffected\u201D, and subsection (2): \u201CExisting permits (including any conditions to which the permits are subject immediately before the commencement of the Amendment Act) continue to have effect according to their terms (unless and until those conditions are amended, or those terms are changed, in accordance with this Act as if the Amendment Act had not been enacted).\u201D Yes, that may give assurance to current permit holders. Can I ask the question, therefore, that, as I raised under Part 1, an existing permit holder who applies for an extension of area for their permit because the discovery, the reserve, the resource that they have discovered is beyond their permit area\u2014that that will be considered under the current conditions upon which they gained the permit in the first place, where in section 12.4 of the Petroleum Programme, if they have had a discovery and apply for it, the Minister will grant them, under some obvious conditions, and that that would take place. Is the Minister saying that, yes, she would, because this is what this provision says in Part 2\u2014that she would honour existing conditions to permits? Is she saying that she will curtail that to within onshore Taranaki region, so there will be, in fact, a limitation of those conditions? I think just some clarity would be appreciated, because we\u2019re not talking about new permits; we\u2019re talking about existing permits which she and, of course, the Prime Minister have made those commitments to\u2014that they would be unaffected. \u201CExisting privileges unaffected\u201D\u2014that is the heading of new section 25. So I do think that it\u2019s important and opportune for us to have some clarity around that specifically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECan I also say that as we look down the track, it\u2019s\u2014as the Minister said\u2014a managed and a long-term transition: 20 to 30 to 40 years down the track. At present, we have 100,000 square miles of offshore opportunity for existing permits that have already been permitted for that exploration to take place. We were informed by the officials and informed through the regulatory impact analysis that in their assessment, based on past information and how it has occurred, in that 100,000 square kilometres they would expect\u2014how many wells would you expect in 100,000 square kilometres? It could be 100,000; it could be one well per square kilometre. But Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials stated that they expect, on past experience, a total of four\u2014one per 25,000. Of those four, I\u2019m assuming that we\u2019re looking at the Barque and the Carvell prospects offshore, Timaru, where Andrew Jefferies has been quite clear and quite pronounced in his comments in the public media that because of this bill\u2014they previously had some interested parties who would go into a joint venture with them, but now they\u2019ve all turned away, and it is looking increasingly difficult for them to proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec5f92c122e545a8bbb775f0507cf212\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec5f92c122e545a8bbb775f0507cf212\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to take a call on Part 2, which actually, I think, should be better renamed \u201CSpeaking out of both sides of your mouth\u201D, because for Part 1, what we\u2019ve heard from Minister Woods is a justification of why her Government wants to take the lead in climate change and the lead in banning and constraining our opportunity with respect to oil and gas, and we\u2019ve had a significant number of times where she has got to her feet and talked to the opportunity that must be grabbed by New Zealand to show leadership. Then, of course, she stands up in Part 2 and says, \u201COh, but, actually, we still want to continue with some exploration\u2014particularly those who have existing rights.\u201D It talks to the dichotomy that exists, actually, within this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve discussed previously, this is an optics symbol bill. On the one hand, depending on the audience, they will talk up the constraints that they are putting on our export opportunity with respect to oil and gas, and this is the section in which they say, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u201COh yes, but onshore Taranaki, your existing rights are unaffected, and so don\u2019t really worry about it.\u201D On the one hand, we have a conversation around \u201CWell, the oil and gas is heading to be a sunset industry, anyway. You already had a thousand jobs lost off it when the price dropped.\u201D, but then, in the same breath, is \u201COh, yes, but, you know, we still want to be there for a just transition and to manage a transition for the region and the economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo the question to the Minister, when we look at these issues with respect to protecting existing rights, is, please, Minister, could you explain to us\u2014those few who are listening and not watching the Melbourne Cup\u2014what does \u201Cjust transitions\u201D actually mean, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d80f946a32524f65b087b116c04059bf\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a racehorse name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db2a1b7c0bb742e3ae58a6b370f92297\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s not a racehorse name. It could be, actually. We hear it all the time\u2014\u201Cjust transitions\u201D. I\u2019ll tell you what this party thinks \u201Cjust transitions\u201D means: unemployment and severe dislocation cloaked in the language of empathy from our Prime Minister. That\u2019s not just transitions; that is letting this country and regional New Zealand down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s hear what a just transition actually means, and I\u2019m sure the Minister will say, \u201CWell, this Part 2 is part of a just transition because a small part of the industry that currently exists onshore, they may continue.\u201D Offshore, you can\u2019t; onshore, you can. The assumption here is that, of course, onshore, those opportunities will continue unabated, and as Jonathan Young has very eloquently voiced this afternoon, actually, when you dig into\u2014excuse the pun\u2014how this sector works, it is not anywhere near as optimistic as the Minister has outlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIndeed, we heard through the select committee from a number of submitters over the chilling effect that this was already having with respect to those businesses who have interests in oil and gas in New Zealand, including the opportunities that are supposedly enabled in Part 2\u2014the existing permitted opportunities. OMV talked about the fact that they have a third of that, as I understand, and if they don\u2019t have a find by 2018 or 2019, they\u2019re likely not to continue with any exploration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo this came up time and time again in the select committee\u2014a complete misunderstanding from the other side around how this sector actually works, the long-term view that investors take, and the chilling effect with respect to their investments, particularly for those existing opportunities that sit in the ground. The Minister, I am sure, will stand up and say \u201CDon\u2019t worry, we will have supply security because all of this onshore opportunity will be realised.\u201D\u2014that is nonsense. The data doesn\u2019t support it. Jonathan Young, with huge experience from that region, has already talked to the fact that we will be exposed here from a security of supply perspective, and this Government simply wipes that critique away, thinking that somehow those with capital are going to magic up an opportunity, despite the constraints inherent in this part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u00221f4c484ed1654a07a61660cdf385c29b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f4c484ed1654a07a61660cdf385c29b\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on the Crown minerals bill. Now, this bill is plain madness, and we will reverse it when we get back in 2020. It does not reduce emissions, it does not speed up the transition to renewables, and it does not help climate change. Now, they talk about a transition, but what\u2019s the plan? What is the plan to transition? You can\u2019t just kill the supply without dealing to the demand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ENow, hydrogen\u2014they talk about hydrogen. I\u2019ve heard the Ministers talking about hydrogen. Well, hydrogen is not a fuel in itself; it\u2019s a means of storage. It takes energy to create hydrogen, and it\u2019s a means of storage, so that\u2019s not a fuel. Hydro\u2014we have nowhere near enough hydro, and can you imagine the Greens allowing us to dam some more rivers? I don\u2019t think so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EGeothermal: we\u2019ve got beautiful geothermal power in Northland, but nowhere near enough geothermal in the whole of the country to meet the demand. Wind farms: I\u2019ve heard the Ministers talk about \u201COh, wind farms are going to solve the issues.\u201D, but we would have to build four wind farms a year for 20 years to cope with the growth and deal with the energy demand for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESo their plan is really to kill the oil and gas industry, and then hope and pray that technology delivers the energy we need. Well, in South Australia, they did that. They have a few numpties making a few decisions, and they got blackouts. So are we going to get blackouts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EThe Crown is looking at somewhere between $7.9 billion and $23 billion in lost revenue from this decision, and that\u2019s just Crown revenue\u2014that\u2019s not the wider economic costs. Well, for $7.9 billion, the Labour-led Government could have had their Auckland light rail, and we could build Waterview, Transmission Gully, Dunedin Hospital, the \u201CKiwi hoax\u201D programme, and Christchurch Stadium. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EGas supplies 15 percent of New Zealand\u2019s electricity generation. It covers our peak times when we have dry summers and dry winters, so it\u2019s a vital part of our energy system, providing the back-up for our beautiful renewable energy grid. But there was no Cabinet paper, no consultation with the industry or the Taranaki people, and no cost-benefit analysis. Those members did not campaign on it and there\u2019s no mandate, and they didn\u2019t even give it to the experts on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. They gave it to the Environment Committee, which also, incidentally, has a majority with the Labour-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a major contribution to failing business confidence, and it hangs out the sign to overseas investors that we are closed for business. Anyone that understands oil and gas and investment knows that it\u2019s a long-term strategy, and if they think that the Government wakes up one day, gets out of bed, and changes the rules, they\u2019re going to get the heebie-jeebies and get out of here. It makes us look like a banana republic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EOil and gas accounts for 54 percent of New Zealand\u2019s primary energy needs and provides 4,600 jobs in Taranaki and 11,000 jobs indirectly, and it adds $2 billion a year to New Zealand\u2019s GDP. The oil and gas sector is a major contributor of foreign direct investment, and do you know what? We had the bill at select committee for a month, two weeks of which was when we weren\u2019t even sitting. So they had two weeks for an industry that\u2019s worth billions of dollars to New Zealand to put their story across and give their submissions. I think that is pretty damned rude. To shorten what is traditionally a six-month process down to one month\u2014I think that\u2019s a slap in the face for the industry. And they even blocked the select committee from going to Taranaki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESubmitters said this will increase energy prices, increase electricity prices, increase the cost of living, and affect the very people that vote\u2014I mean, a lot of Labour voters, the low-income New Zealanders. But I quote from Minister Megan Woods: \u201CWe are a Government that listens, then acts. That consults widely, thinks [about] issues deeply and seeks to forge consensus on how we can take New Zealand forward together.\u201D\u2014what a joke. This will be devastating long term for New Zealand. Like with charter schools, it\u2019s blind ideology versus plain old common sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u00225b8c918693e0423bb8506eb12f34c0d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b8c918693e0423bb8506eb12f34c0d0\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a call, although I am conscious that at 1 minute past 5 on the first Tuesday of November there might be quite a few dozen people who would usually watch Parliament TV who have probably switched over\u2014and it has nothing to do with my colleague Matt King taking the call right before me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI did just want to thank, actually, a couple of speakers who have come before me: both Deborah Russell, who is the chair of the Environment Committee, for taking a call\u2014and I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be plenty more opportunities for her to do so as we roll into this evening\u2014but also, too, the Minister, Megan Woods, who has, I think, been quite good at responding to some of our comments today. But I do just want to pick up on a couple of comments that she made in some earlier comments, and they do relate to Part 2 of the bill. She mentioned that this bill, and particularly Part 2, would allow for a just transition away from oil and gas, and she specifically said they are \u201Cnot pulling the rug out\u201D\u2014not pulling the rug out. Well, tell that to people in Taranaki. Tell that to the 15,000 people whose jobs will be affected by this bill progressing through Parliament. That\u2019s 15,000 people, 15,000 families, who rely on a pay packet from the oil and gas industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EAnd if members opposite want to repeat the line that\u2019s been used many times this afternoon, that it won\u2019t affect anyone who\u2019s currently in work\u2014well, go and talk to the people at Fitzroy Engineering Group, a company in New Plymouth which employs 400 people, who on the day this bill was announced implemented a hiring freeze. That\u2019s an absolute example of where a company who is related to the oil and gas industry has said, \u201CAs a result of this legislation, we are going to hire no more people.\u201D And that will be replicated across the industry. It will be replicated across the oil and gas sector, and replicated across all of the industries that are related to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EShe also went on to say, in another quite incredible comment, that the Barque development, which is off the coast of North Otago, would still go ahead. My area of Rangitata would benefit hugely, actually, from the Barque development, because they\u2019ve been in discussions with PrimePort\u2014the very large port in the central South Island\u2014about bringing the gas ashore to Timaru. So a huge number, 3,100 jobs that would be created from the Barque gas development would be in Timaru. So parts of the bill, as it stands, say that current permits wouldn\u2019t be affected, and that\u2019s something that the Minister repeated this afternoon. She said that the Barque development can \u201Cstill go ahead\u201D. Well I just want to point the Minister to the permit holder actually, which is New Zealand Oil and Gas. In their submission to this bill they said, \u201Cthe Bill makes development of this prospect materially less likely.\u201D\u2014materially less likely. So what that means is that those 3,100 jobs that would be created in South Canterbury and in North Otago from this gas development are less likely to happen because of Part 2 of this bill and because of this bill progressing into law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just those 3,100 jobs, though; it\u2019s also the billions in taxes and in revenue that would be created by that development. And it\u2019s not just that and it\u2019s not just the jobs; it\u2019s also all those pay packets\u2014those 3,100 pay packets that would be spent in Timaru, that would be spent in South Canterbury, and would be spent in the South Island. This bill, according to the permit holder, and particularly Part 2, is going to make that development materially less likely to occur because they can\u2019t find the international investors to invest. They specifically highlight some of the comments that have come in from offshore, because they are a reasonable player in the oil and gas sector in New Zealand. But, of course, for a development like this and for bringing down a rig, for example, it is a very expensive enterprise to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo they have provided some comments from some of the potential international partners who had expressed an interest previously. One of them says, \u201CLooks interesting but given state of play in NZ at the moment I don\u2019t think we will get much airplay internally. So will pass on this one.\u201D Another one said, \u201CIt\u2019s been an education for me seeing the reaction by even discussing NZ here! \u2026 the NZ government has thrown a spanner in the works stopping future exploration licences.\u201D The last one, which is my favourite, says, \u201CI\u2019m sorry to inform you but we excluded New Zealand from our area of interest for new ventures after series of opportunities review and recent political issues.\u201D It is a direct\u2014direct\u2014result of this new Government and this Government bringing this piece of legislation in that that development off the coast of South Canterbury and North Otago is materially less likely, and it\u2019s because they can\u2019t find investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1541e1b42c2425ab73b6a2d4ae876ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1541e1b42c2425ab73b6a2d4ae876ad\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I usually say that it\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in these debates, but I have to tell you that this one\u2019s just not so good. It really is not good to be standing in this Chamber in a committee of the whole House that has been asked to go into an extended sitting in order to examine this bill as reported back from the second reading, because\u2014well, it\u2019s just a bad piece of legislation. The individual parts and clauses\u2014specifically, a new Part 2 is being inserted into schedule 1 of the Crown Minerals Act\u2014actually go to the heart of a lot of confusion that this bill has created, not just in this Parliament and not just in the local industry but, actually, globally about what exactly this Government\u2019s intention is. You see, they\u2019ve come back\u2014if you look at, for example, new clause 23(2) being inserted into schedule 1, which says that existing permits continue to have effect\u2014and it appears that what the Minister is trying to say is that permits could also be extended if they currently exist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis goes to the central paradox of this bill, which is that on the one hand, the Government would have us believe that it is engaging in a nuclear-free moment and that New Zealand is leading the world, that it is going to transform the way that energy is used and consumed throughout this country, and then from here, beyond, to the rest of the world\u2014that is the rhetoric on the one hand. That is the intention of the bill that we heard from members at the second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen, on the other hand, we ask ourselves, well, does the clause and the specific text that\u2019s being brought back from second reading actually reflect that intention? What it seems to say is, \u201CWell, maybe if you have an existing permit, extensions will still be allowed, and maybe your existing privileges granted will still be allowed.\u201D, and that leads us to ask the question: does the Government really believe that it\u2019s implementing a nuclear-free moment? Or, actually, what this Government is doing is trying to have a bob each way, because whenever they\u2019re challenged\u2014whenever the Government is asked about petrol prices, for instance, or what its intention is for the Taranaki region\u2014they turn around and say, \u201COh no, it\u2019s not that bad. Most things will continue as they are. We\u2019re not really making much change here.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo what I want the Minister to stand up and answer is: when she puts in this new part of the schedule for all of these provisions for existing privileges, for existing permits, which one is it? Is the Minister taking us in a bold leap forward that is going to transform energy worldwide, or is it actually the truth that not much is changing here\u2014that there\u2019s nothing to see\u2014because I think, if we\u2019re going to be certain that this bill before us truly reflects the Government\u2019s intention, she needs to tell us. What does she say to the Fitzroy Engineering that we just heard about from Andrew Falloon? What does she say to the global investors? Is she saying that \u201CThis is a nuclear-free moment and the time that New Zealand changes everything.\u201D, or is she saying that \u201CActually, there\u2019s nothing to see here and existing permits will continue.\u201D, as the new Part 2 inserted into schedule 1 by this amendment seems to suggest? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think the committee needs to know, because if it\u2019s the case that, actually, this Government is trying to transform the world, then perhaps they need to be bolder. Perhaps they need to remove some of these protections and privileges that will allow\u2014as they tell us\u2014everything to carry on as it always has. But, on the other hand, if they are not trying to ruin people\u2019s property rights and destroy New Zealand\u2019s international reputation, then maybe what they actually need to do is give greater protections to people investing in the oil and gas industry in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo if the Minister could stand up and tell us which one is it\u2014a nuclear-free moment, or \u201Cnothing to see here\u201D\u2014I think the committee would be greatly aided. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002212029fedbe6343afb7bf096e11c62222\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212029fedbe6343afb7bf096e11c62222\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Speaking to Part 2 now of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to focus specifically on new section 26, being within the schedule that will be the new Part 2 inserted into the Act. In particular, I\u2019d like to highlight what I think is some matter of drafting, actually, if nothing else, that could be tidied up, and perhaps the Minister might have a view on some of the suggestions that I\u2019m about to make in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENew section 26 is called \u201CSpecified proceedings unaffected\u201D. So this is, basically, setting out that the bill will not affect a particular matter that\u2019s before the courts at the moment. If you\u2019ll indulge me for a moment, Madam Chair, I\u2019ll quickly outline the words of that, and that will give me a better position from which to be able to highlight what I think are some limitations in the way that that\u2019s been set out: \u201CThe proceedings in the High Court between Greymouth Gas Turangi Limited and the Minister of Energy and Resources\u201D\u2014and then, within brackets, a number related to the particular case\u2014\u201Cmay be continued, heard, and determined, or settled, as if the Amendment Act (other than this clause) had not been enacted.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere are a number of difficulties that I have with the way that this has been constructed. The first is that, of course, this particular case that\u2019s referred to might actually not still be going on by the time the bill is enacted, or indeed given Royal assent. So if the legislation\u2014the bill\u2014referred in some way to that possibility, perhaps by saying \u201Cthe proceedings that are taking place as at 6 November 2018\u201D or \u201Cat the time of drafting\u201D or \u201Cat the time of the committee stage of this bill commencing\u201D, or so on, then that might be helpful for the sake of clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also something of a concern to me that this doesn\u2019t actually refer to the fact that the case might be appealed. So if this matter which is referred to in the legislation has been a proceeding before the High Court, in this particular matter, it might actually be subject to appeal, which would be the normal legal right of one or other of the parties to seek leave to appeal. And if that\u2019s the case, then it\u2019s not actually clear whether the exclusion that\u2019s currently set out in new section 26 would actually continue to apply. I suspect it would, and perhaps at least for the sake of clarity for those who are particularly affected by that case, the Minister might be able to provide a view to the House for the sake of the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESimilarly, in relation to the case itself, there might be ancillary matters, there might be related proceedings, there might even be different entities that become a part of this legislation\u2014they might get joined at some other point in the process. It might be also, just off the top of my head, that the particular company that\u2019s listed there as one of the parties might\u2014and I suggest this not as a real possibility with any knowledge of that possibility\u2014in general terms go into liquidation or receivership and, therefore, might be somewhat outside the effective definition within this Act of that matter that is excluded from its effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESimilarly, the Minister of Energy and Resources might become a different entity by reason of\u2014and I don\u2019t mean the person herself in this case, but it might be that a different ministerial portfolio is created such that, actually, a different party to the proceedings would, effectively, be substituted. And I think that in the Act, if we\u2019re going to go to the trouble of spelling out for very good reason that a particular set of proceedings is excluded, we might as well be precise about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnother related issue arises, which is to say that similar issues to this with the same justification for exclusion might arise, bearing in mind that this bill amending the Act will, basically, come within the limitation period for such issues. So I wonder if the Minister can advise whether she has given any thought to, or her officials might be able to give any advice on, whether similar cases to that might be precluded similarly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, as we\u2019re competing for attention with the Melbourne Cup, I\u2019d like to finish with a few more general remarks. It seems that the Government has its blinkers on. We can talk about that till we\u2019re hoarse but, effectively, it\u2019s an exercise in unbridled power, the way this has gone through. They\u2019re jockeying for position on the world stage. It\u2019s policy on the hoof. They should be reined in. They\u2019re looking a gift horse in the mouth for this part of our economy. That\u2019s seven horse puns on the trot\u2014sorry, now eight\u2014and I\u2019m happy to be one of the \u201Cneigh-sayers\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00227ca88c59359a4f639488408f7fa576af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ca88c59359a4f639488408f7fa576af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Megan Woods with some trepidation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002253e4776d4b4944829775ed15bf160972\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253e4776d4b4944829775ed15bf160972\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E With some trepidation! I\u2019m not going to continue the puns, but well done to that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELook, there are a couple of questions that have been raised in this part of the bill that I want to address. I\u2019m going to start with one of the last ones that was raised by the previous speaker that just sat down, Chris Penk, which was around new section 26, in terms of whether another Minister could be substituted into there. I\u2019d like to reassure that member that that\u2019s a very specific clause that is actually about proceedings that are currently under way. So it\u2019s related to one very particular set of circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESome other questions have been asked about what a \u201Cjust transition\u201D is. Well, I think that it is actually worth spending a bit of time talking about that and how it relates to this part of the bill, because a just transition is a transition where a Government is taking a long-term, managed approach; it\u2019s not waiting for things to magically happen. It\u2019s seeing that there is change coming down the economic line. We can see that fossil fuels are coming to an end in our economies around the world, and Governments all around the world are grappling with these questions. We have the opportunity here in New Zealand to get on the ground along with our regional economic development programme and plan for what the future industries are that need to replace those fossil fuel industries that are going to be displaced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENot only can we think about what the regional economic development is that we have to do in that area\u2014what are the businesses that we need to encourage, what does the Government need to stand alongside, what does it need to do to help, and we\u2019ve already seen some small investments through the Provincial Growth Fund in this area\u2014but we also can think very carefully and in a very managed way around what skills training requirements are going to be in that area. Although just about everybody who currently works in the oil and gas industry will be able to finish their careers working in the oil and gas industry, we are planning for future generations and the fact that we need to make sure that new industries\u2014that we are planning for in that area, so that Taranaki can continue to be an energy leader for New Zealand, and that we have a population that is well placed to take advantage of the opportunities that are coming down the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased to say that this Government has already established a Just Transitions Unit. It\u2019s on the ground, it\u2019s working away, it\u2019s doing some incredible work, and we\u2019re seeing some really positive things come out of there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also address the question that was asked by a couple of members, but by Jonathan Young firstly, around clause 23(2)\u2014and I think David Seymour also asked that\u2014asking whether existing permits would be able to apply for applications. Now, it\u2019s existing permits as they exist\u2014that\u2019s exactly what the clause says. So it\u2019s very explicit there. I mean, new permits, obviously, will be treated differently. So the current conditions are that an application has to be made on very tight, very specific grounds in terms of applying for an extension of a permit. We set out, in terms of this tranche one of the changes, to do the bare necessities to put into effect the announcement we made. One of those was that existing permits would be honoured. So the member is correct in his assessment of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo just to clear up any discrepancies that might be there: under the current work, existing onshore permits can extend offshore and onshore \u2014that\u2019s under the law as it stands before the amendments are made. An existing offshore permit can extend offshore and onshore. But, under the amended legislation that we\u2019re debating here today, a new permit cannot extend offshore, but a new permit can extend within the onshore area as per the clause in Part 1 of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, we had some members say that this meant we were talking out of both sides of our mouths. This was saying that we were talking big, but we weren\u2019t actually doing what we were. I thought David Seymour was about to table an amendment for us to go further, as many of the submitters who came ahead of this this bill did. But we made an absolute commitment to permit holders at the time of the April announcement\u2014and, actually, before the April announcement, when the Prime Minister was talking publicly about this and I gave a speech to the Petroleum Exploration and Production Association of New Zealand conference prior to that announcement\u2014where we talked about change coming, but that existing permits would be respected. That is exactly what we\u2019re doing here with this legislation today. What we\u2019ve also said is that there is tranche two of changes, where there does need to be a conversation within the new environment that we can manage permits. That\u2019s a conversation that we\u2019ve talked a lot with industry about, and that we\u2019re willing to have under tranche two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, Andrew Falloon, being a local member of Parliament, also raised a very local issue for him about some concerns that were raised around further investment in some of the exploration prospects and the ability of investors to invest in them. Well, I\u2019d like to reassure that member and other members that I have met with many of the current permit holders. They have told me that they are getting some signals from the international investor community that they\u2019d like to get some clarity. The Prime Minister and I both agreed that we would write to individual permit holders, spelling out exactly what the decision was and the fact that existing permits were to be honoured. This was appreciated by the industry and it has been proven useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat Andrew Falloon was also addressing in there was something that I have talked about with a number of permit holders in the industry body now, and it\u2019s the reason why I\u2019ve agreed to\u2014on a case by case basis\u2014consider a two-year-type pause on the drill or drop provisions so that there is more time for people to consider their options and to reconfigure the way in which they do things. That is something I have invited permit holders that would like to consider that to do\u2014to come in and make a case and we can see if there is anything we can do. This is not about an indefinite extension. This is about a two-year - type extension where a business can reorganise itself for that smooth transition. We know that in order for this to be a smooth transition, we need to be making sure that we are working with not only the industry but also communities and wider stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things in this debate that I think is a bit regrettable is that there seems to be a perception that industry is the only stakeholder. I think we saw from the number of submissions to select committee, the thousands of submissions overwhelmingly in support\u2014with a majority in support\u2014of the legislation, that there\u2019s a very wide range of people who feel they are a stakeholder in this issue, and that is something we need to consider. So they\u2019re the questions that have been raised within this part of the bill, and I look forward to the debate continuing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4c0db33d9d14c7daa03a81340aff345\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4c0db33d9d14c7daa03a81340aff345\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. And I\u2019d just like to add to Mr Chris Penk\u2019s puns. I think this Government\u2019s actually having a bob each way!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI was trying to look at the different parts, as I wasn\u2019t part of the Environment Committee and was wanting to get myself familiarised with the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. Looking at Part 1 and Part 2, I\u2019m sort of at a point where I think that, in one corner, the Government wants to end exploration; on another point, they want to continue. And I\u2019m sort of thinking: which one are they actually talking about? I was getting a little bit confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIn terms of what the Minister actually talked about when she said \u201Cjust transition\u201D, I guess it\u2019s about where one looks from\u2014where the perspective is actually coming from. When the Minister talks about the transition to an industry that is going to be hugely impacted, I don\u2019t think anybody will be using the terminology \u201Cjust\u201D. You cannot have a just transition when there is a huge loss of jobs. And the question that I\u2019d like to pose to the Minister, in terms of how little the impact to the economy is that she\u2019s actually suggesting\u2014that the economic impact of this decision is actually not going to change or impact on Taranaki, she says\u2014the Taranaki region has the highest per capita GDP of any region in New Zealand; can she guarantee that the decision that she\u2019s actually made and the decision that this Government has made is not going to impact on Taranaki having the highest per capita GDP of any region in New Zealand? It\u2019s the best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWhat about the Taranaki region having the highest average wage of any region in New Zealand? Can the Minister guarantee that the decision to stop\u2014this particular legislation\u2014is not going to impact on Taranaki having achieved so far the highest average wage of any region in New Zealand? Can she also guarantee that oil and gas actually accounts for 54 percent of New Zealand\u2019s primary energy supply? How is she going to replace that? She says she\u2019s actually going to be replacing it with clean energy. Considering the fact that earlier, during question time, I think it was, Mr David Seymour talked about 120,000 tonnes of coal that is actually coming in from Indonesia, I wonder how she can explain that when she talks about how, when she ends exploration, she\u2019s going for the clean energy option, and we\u2019ve got a situation where companies are importing 120,000 tonnes of coal. Oil and gas actually currently accounts for 54 percent of New Zealand\u2019s primary energy supply. I\u2019m not so sure whether this legislation is actually a good option to actually go clean. I don\u2019t think she can actually guarantee that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EHow about the oil and gas sector generating 4,600 jobs directly and supporting 11,000 jobs indirectly? Can she guarantee that those 4,600 jobs will not be canned? Can she guarantee that 11,000 indirect jobs will not be canned as a result of this Government\u2019s policy on the hoof? I\u2019m not trying to make a pun here. This seems to be characteristic of the decision that this Government makes: no Cabinet decision, no cost-benefit analysis by officials. I think one of the things that I actually read was that the regulatory impact statement assessment shows that ending offshore block offers is likely to cost this country $7.9 billion in lost revenue and, potentially, up to $23.5 billion. That\u2019s actually more than two Auckland Harbour Bridges. Can the Minister actually guarantee that we are not going to lose that kind of revenue\u2014the revenue that this country so needs to cover at least 316,000 hip replacement surgeries just for $7.9 billion? That\u2019s actually a home for every homeless person in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002238e4883cdf1a494791b67b6ef21de140\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238e4883cdf1a494791b67b6ef21de140\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to take a call to speak directly to the comments that the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods, made when she last spoke. It was in the context of a question around a just transition, and she said that the whole purpose of a just transition and, indeed, the policy intent that sits at the core of this legislation is for the Government to look ahead and see where the changes, the big geopolitical and environmental and economic changes, are going to occur and get in front of that, and to assist the economy to move at the pace necessary to do that in an appropriate way. She said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe era of fossil fuels is coming to an end.\u201D That, I think, is the most explicit statement today around the Minister\u2019s and this Government\u2019s view around the place of oil and gas not only in the New Zealand economy but in the global economy, despite the fact that the data is so clear that the demand for oil and gas, in particular, is going to be significant over the next 20, 30, 40 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo what this actually is is not a conversation around climate change or managing emissions; it is \u201CWe are opposed to the extractive industries and, in particular, we are opposed to the future of hydrocarbon.\u201D There is no reference in this bill to the opportunity for innovation to be applied to the sector to enable cheap energy to still be a part of the mix globally but to have a reduced emissions profile. We get touted hydrogen as the solution. It may well be part of the mix; I expect it will be. But to assume, as she has said here this afternoon, that oil and gas have no future\u2014and that is the intellectual rigour that is underpinning this bill and her comments\u2014quite frankly is a disgrace. Show me data, Minister, which says oil and gas will not be a part of the global economy in 2050. Show me it. Table it. Say, \u201CLook, New Zealand. This is the future we\u2019re prepared to anchor your lives and economic opportunity to.\u201D The data doesn\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EShe will show you a build in renewable energy\u2014that\u2019s fine from a very low base\u2014but that same data will say that gas is a critical part of the global energies mix in 2050. Why? Because all those developing countries will be moving from coal to gas, a huge commercial opportunity for most gas producers in the world, now except New Zealand\u2014now except New Zealand. The Government\u2019s view of just transition is some two or three bureaucrats in Wellington coming up with $50,000 grants that Shane Jones can wave around. With respect, that is hopeless. We are not talking here about some sort of theoretical exercise; these are people. This is an economy, OK? This is an economy that will continue to be requiring hydrocarbons. There is no impact on demand; in fact, when petrol prices rise to $2.50, the Prime Minister says, \u201CThis is appalling. We need to look at the margins, because everyone\u2019s hurting.\u201D Goodness me. There is no intellectual coherence at all in this debate from the Government side. \u201CWe\u2019re anti oil and gas. We see no future for hydrocarbons despite the fact, actually, that global demand is clear.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EA just transition? A just transition\u2014having a couple of public meetings, eventually, in Taranaki, saying, \u201COh, look, we\u2019ll try and find a cycleway, $50,000\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce6a91a2a9e43c0a4711f7b6930a079\u0022\u003ELawrence Yule\u003C/span\u003E: A church.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0288de965646d5ba39ab647c6517f5\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: A church. I mean, with respect, how on earth can you frame up a policy response to one of the more critical issues of our time\u2014climate change\u2014and frame it like that when the impact on this country\u2019s emissions will go the wrong way? Our ability to contribute to the developing countries\u2019 world emissions profile and improve theirs\u2014we don\u2019t participate in that, because we\u2019ve ceded that opportunity to all the other gas explorers of the world. As they say, there is no rigour in this at all. There wasn\u2019t when the decision was made. There\u2019s no supporting analysis from officials that says that we should be doing this. This is just sloganeering, and when actually put under the test, the Minister stands up and says, \u201CActually, from our perspective, there is no future in fossil fuels.\u201D Well, tell that to the other 190 countries out in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u00223898ec2c670f4c98925ad6c10a11c814\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223898ec2c670f4c98925ad6c10a11c814\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Following some of my colleagues\u2019 comments\u2014because I do think this is at the very core of what this bill is about; it\u2019s the process of transition\u2014I think that what New Zealand needs is not a \u201Cjust\u201D transition that everybody is confused about, but we need a \u201Csmart\u201D transition. We need a transition that is comprehensive in its planning and in its consultation. We look to exemplars around the world, like Norway, who have very high uptake around electric vehicles, who have 100 percent renewables, and they do all of this on the strength of a hydrocarbon industry, who are now using those resources to invest and become international leaders in offshore wind generation, and from that the development and the production of hydrogen that will flow from some of those redundant offshore platforms in the North Sea. So people are using smart opportunities. People are consulting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIf you go and look at the definition of \u201Cjust transition\u201D, it says at the very beginning, at the front end of this, is a thorough consultation process. That is essential, because what we have today is a bill that protects the past but completely changes the future, hoping that this will make a way for Taranaki. But it\u2019s through the people in the past\u2014the Statoils, now called Equinor, who now are not just a hydrocarbon company but an energy company\u2014that we see those transitions take place; that happen not driven by legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293df315737b844c1a69fe8a70836330a\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the reference to Part 2? It\u2019s very narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e142d09534574413905cff2485f056b1\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we are talking about what the Minister raised\u2014but that happen because of a desire in companies to be relevant, to be purposeful, and to support their countries and economies. I think it\u2019s a really important thing that we look at this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think that, in many regards, yes, I am pleased that there are provisions to protect those past permits and those companies that will, to some degree, be able to carry on with their permits in a business-as-usual case. But what we have are existing operators\u2014people like Methanex, people who want to bring in carbon capture technology. They want to be able to better utilise the carbon dioxide that comes from their processes, and they want to be able to convert that into methanol and be able to not have those types of emissions happening in our climate and in our atmosphere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo what is important is not just a just transition for the workforce, but if we were to do exactly what a just transition says, and that is to do a thorough consultation before\u2014before\u2014decisions are made, what we might learn is that there are technologies and that there is potential investment to achieve the very goals that this bill has as its policy statement, as its background. In order to do that, what it takes is it takes a Minister and it takes a Government to have the willingness to consult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased to hear that there will be a thorough consultation around tranche two. I think that what people wanted was the thorough consultation around tranche one, and I think that if we had had that, then we would\u2019ve had probably a far more steady process and a situation where companies would see a stronger future heading towards a low-emission economy, which everybody supports. I think that we have lost an opportunity\u2014we have lost an opportunity\u2014because the Government have rushed at this. They haven\u2019t done the consultation that a just transition predicates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhat we need is a smart transition. We need a transition where people can stop, take a breath, think, consult, and consider. None of this has happened, and what we are left with, with all due respect, is poor legislation. It might be taking a hammer to a walnut, crushing it and thinking that we have made some significant difference. We have made no difference. All we are doing, when it comes to a high-cost transition to a low-carbon future, is making this country and people poorer. We won\u2019t achieve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6379d8099a14f35b178c6522c63dd0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6379d8099a14f35b178c6522c63dd0a\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002203dac1a503fb49438ccd8cb2948c8eec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203dac1a503fb49438ccd8cb2948c8eec\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I just wanted to make a short contribution on Part 2, so I\u2019m grateful for this opportunity. Part 2 talks to a provision to protect existing or lodged applications for mining consents or exploration consents, and it talks to the existing permits and says that they continue to have the same effect as if this bill was not enacted. However, it talks also about applications that were submitted but not processed, and they\u2019re being determined\u2014so applications that were lodged or submitted but not determined before the commencement of this bill are going to be treated as having been withdrawn. So any applications that have been in the pipeline that haven\u2019t actually been processed are going to be withdrawn. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, I thank Minister Megan Woods for her feedback on some of the questions that we have had this afternoon during this debate, but there was one outstanding one that wasn\u2019t addressed, and that was my referral to coal-seam gas. That was an issue that was raised with me locally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7593f6f92044e37aed2886dd666a5c5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b9aedc5722546ae948a97107ba67559\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and so I\u2019d appreciate the Minister\u2019s feedback on whether coal-seam gas is going to be captured by this bill and be disregarded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI do also want to point out that in 2013, there was a visit to the wealthy sultanate of Brunei during the East Asia Summit by the then Prime Minister John Key. Back then, he said to us that \u201CThis is a country, that\u2019s national income is dominated by the fact that it has very large oil and gas reserves,\u201D\u2014he was talking about Brunei, the fifth-wealthiest nation on the planet. Then he went on to say \u201CWe have 18 basins (in New Zealand) that are prospective from an oil and gas perspective and only one of those [are currently being tapped] into.\u201D That is the potential of the sector to New Zealand that we have just had the curtain pulled down on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, when you drill down into it, the world is not always seen through green-tinted spectacles, and we don\u2019t all have the luxury to be able to do that. Some of us actually live in real New Zealand. We live in provincial New Zealand, not in the suburbs of Wellington, and certainly not in Auckland City. In regional New Zealand, in the provinces, we make a living by working hard and extracting something, farming something, or producing something. That\u2019s real New Zealand. Now, that\u2019s the real world, and it\u2019s a very long way from the safety of Victoria University, where the Prime Minister chose to make this announcement. But by shutting down this industry here in New Zealand, we are shutting down the potential for our country to be prosperous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, I do want to make note of one submitter in reference to Part 2 of the bill about existing permits. As has been well articulated already today by some of our colleagues on this side of the Chamber, it\u2019s all very well to say that if you have an existing exploration permit, that is safe, but the cold hard reality is that there will be no investment partners who will come and invest here in an industry that has so much disorganisation and uncertainty associated with it. In fact, one submitter even took the opportunity of giving notice of their intention to sue the Government for the $104 million worth of their assets that are now going to be abandoned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESo we are very concerned about the ideology that is driving this, especially from a party and a Government that has so many times professed to be the most open and transparent Government this country has ever seen. Well, we are still to see that realised in the real world. It\u2019s another ad hoc, on-the-hoof decision that\u2019s been made. It\u2019s going to have overwhelming impacts for this country. It\u2019s going to deliver no benefit to the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002219f3525d14d14ad2a8600bbc9eebc806\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219f3525d14d14ad2a8600bbc9eebc806\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002221c476da5d1a4a0e8b2f129568a3a0c2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228fa6786f42234bbc925da0a024ef5089\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227449cf8ef7c64c88aac33e7a15c56ceb\u0022\u003ESchedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002238a01843917a4de48967fe3bb7e3d7cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238a01843917a4de48967fe3bb7e3d7cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Gareth Hughes\u2019 amendments to the schedule set out on Supplementary Order Paper 151 are out of order as being inconsistent with the principles and objects of the bill as agreed at second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c68fd8d329e44f36bfc830cac3512f91\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022966de3f207254f48b069411c9239ecda\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022c311223d4d6c4f79889fa24f07328d1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c311223d4d6c4f79889fa24f07328d1d\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak on the title and commencement aspect of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to focus on the commencement date, and, in particular, the fact that some urgency has been indicated by the Government in proposing a bill that will, in becoming an Act, come into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first observation to make about that is that, clearly, the Government feels some urgency about that. That makes sense as far as it goes, in terms of their position that this is a matter of some urgency, but I would ask the Minister Megan Woods to consider whether she might be willing to accept, perhaps, a Supplementary Order Paper, if that were to be lodged, to provide a different time frame for three particular reasons that I will now spell out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first is that the date is uncertain in the sense that we will not know until the bill receives Royal assent when it will come into force. Obviously, at the point that it does receive the Royal assent, there will be certainty, because it will simply be the day after that that the Act will come into force, but that will allow very little time indeed for those who are affected by it to be able to respond appropriately to its provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor that reason, I am wondering if the Minister would be able to provide some guidance on whether she\u2019d be amenable to a different type of commencement, such that the Act would come into force perhaps a certain number of days or weeks or, perhaps, months or even a year or years after the date on which it receives the Royal assent. That at least would provide more certainty in the sense that from the time that Royal assent was given, those who are affected most by it would have the maximum opportunity\u2014or at least some opportunity\u2014to arrange their affairs such that they will have the adverse effects mitigated somewhat. It seems to me that that would tie in with the Government\u2019s stated goal more broadly of achieving \u201Cjust transition\u201D, such that those who, effectively, will be bearing the burden on behalf of all of New Zealand\u2014and if we\u2019re going to have a \u201CKumbaya\u201D moment for the world, then at least we can have less unfairness in the sense that they will have a reasonable opportunity to move forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe reason this is particularly important in this bill is because of the significance of the time frame within the Act, as it will become, as mentioned in new clause 24. Now, I appreciate that\u2019s in another part of the bill, but it\u2019s particularly in relation to the commencement date\u2014which I\u2019m allowed to speak about at the moment\u2014that that has significance. In particular, I refer to the fact that an application or a tender\u2014an application being defined as an application or a tender\u2014will be treated as having been withdrawn and relodged at the point that the Act comes into force. So, actually, it\u2019s not just a matter of the timing of the bill being significant from the point of view that the various players involved need to know what\u2019s happening generally so that they can react; it\u2019s also that they might work proactively to act in a certain way\u2014for example, in particular, by lodging an application in the hope that it will be viewed in one way and not the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe significance of that is\u2014in particular, I\u2019m thinking of a situation where a time frame might allow a judicial review of an application that is denied. For example, a party might apply and have such an application rejected by the Minister, or however that is considered\u2014and I must confess I\u2019m not on top of that detail, but I know that judicial review in general terms is available where a decision maker is said not to be reasonable. Now, if the time frame was such that that review were to be still ongoing when the Act came into force, then I think that the interests of justice would dictate very much that the applicant\u2019s permit might actually be more appropriately considered to have been passed at that point, if the High Court\u2014as it would be\u2014would consider the application for judicial review, decide that the decision should be set aside, and then the Minister subsequently decides that it should be approved or determined in a positive manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo that is the significance of the timings as far as I\u2019m concerned. I look forward to any comments that the Minister might have in terms of the commencement date and whether that could be pushed out, or have a specific calendar date maybe, so that there\u2019s some certainty for all involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002250ab3d0ace644c168c3d4860bf1415a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250ab3d0ace644c168c3d4860bf1415a3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies. I\u2019ll make it clear we are debating clauses 1 to 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022d43dc0a948314bf690dc87fb2f91c1cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d43dc0a948314bf690dc87fb2f91c1cb\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Clauses 1, 2, and 3\u2014so I\u2019m going to just touch on clause 2 at this point in time, which is the commencement. What I\u2019m proposing, through Supplementary Order Paper 152, is that instead of just having a commencement date appointed by the Governor-General by Order in Council, we extend that to either 1 January 2021 or \u201CBefore the Governor-General appoints a date under subsection (1)(a), the Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Energy and Resources must\u2014(a) release a discussion document on the \u2018no new mines on conservation land\u2019 policy\u201D and also that they complete a series of consultations, as they have stated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe reason why I say this is because in this bill there is a provision to restrict access on conservation land for only minimum impact activity, and this seems to pre-empt the consultation process that the Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Energy and Resources have committed themselves to\u2014in the mining sector\u2014take place. I think that it\u2019s important that we ensure that that process and that timing is put in the right order, because the potential is that a company may apply for a permit in the onshore Taranaki region that actually also has some overlap in the conservation area\u2014prior to the consultation that the Minister of Energy and Resources and the Minister of Conservation have undertaken with the broader sector. This bill is pre-empting that and, as such, I do not think that we can afford to have such pre-emption before there\u2019s been a thorough consultation around access to conservation land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe all know that the Speech from the Throne says no new mines on conservation land, and so this is the policy statement that the Minister of Energy and Resources\u2014and she spoke to the Minerals Forum in Queenstown, at the annual conference, about this consultation. Suffice it to say, there is quite a high level of alarm and concern in the resources sector about the inclusion of this provision in this bill around restricting access to conservation land, so what I\u2019m proposing for the Minister and others to consider is that we delay the commencement of this bill until that consultation has taken place\u2014until the consultation that the Minister has committed to and that she has given in good faith, with assurances that she will listen to the minerals and the resources sector, takes place\u2014and the consultation is with the mining sector and iwi in affected areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWe already understand that this bill has breached Treaty obligations through Te \u0100tiawa\u2019s settlement process, where they have had a commitment by the Crown to consult on such matters, and they raised that, of course, in the select committee process. So consultation with iwi, with local government groups, with environmental groups, with community groups, and with interested members of the public\u2014this is so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo I would suggest and put forward that the rest of this Act come into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent, but that the Governor-General appoints a date under new subsection (1)(a) after the Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Energy and Resources have actually undertaken what they have said they will do. I think what this does is it puts into place the correct order of things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think that the Minister in the chair, Megan Woods, wants to be accused of a lack of consultation with the minerals sector or the other sectors, so putting this provision in the bill creates that apprehension. The Minister may have an answer to that\u2014I\u2019d be keen to hear. But what I\u2019m suggesting is that if this bill proceeds in the way it does, then it actually takes away an existing right, or an existing business-as-usual situation where a company who want to explore and who want to drill a hole in that exploration may want to produce and can no longer do that. At the present, there are 20 companies that do that, and it is taking away a provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002243e60bcae1a04ac79d94029f763c41b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243e60bcae1a04ac79d94029f763c41b5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going to take a very quick call just to respond to Jonathan Young, the member who\u2019s just taken his seat\u2014Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 152\u2014to let him know that we won\u2019t be supporting this SOP. I consider it largely unrelated to this bill. In fact, the provisions that are set out in this amendment aren\u2019t in clauses 1 to 3, but I will respond to this because the bill is actually intended to avoid the conflict between various work streams. So that is the purpose of the provisions that are in the Act. The work programme related to the Government\u2019s work around having no new mines as set out in the Speech from the Throne is separate, and there is no need to delay to coincide those work streams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022754e3c6336d84b79b2b3f6a074e7a85a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022754e3c6336d84b79b2b3f6a074e7a85a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, gosh\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229150e0e05e6143ca86eee5b8c8e34949\u0022\u003ELawrence Yule\u003C/span\u003E: Lawrence Yule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19eeb983c8344a98947b28019fab470\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Lawrence Yule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022b25dcf1ffccf4f2fba65d0656a3da602\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b25dcf1ffccf4f2fba65d0656a3da602\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E  Madam Chair, it\u2019s a pleasure\u2014it\u2019s nearly dinner time, and I understand that. Look, the question I wish to raise is actually around the title, because what this bill does is amend an Act, the Crown Minerals Act 1991, which is the principal Act, and then it inserts the word \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D. In my view, it\u2019s too narrow a word. What we are talking about here is fundamental change to the energy that powers New Zealand. You can change oil and gas, and you can ban oil and gas, but there are implications for other forms of energy or for how we\u2019re going to power New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn my mind, we should simply say it\u2019s an amendment to the Crown Minerals Act 1991 and take out the word \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D, because I think that it\u2019s too narrow a definition for the scale of what this Government is intending to do. Even though we\u2019re opposing it\u2014I understand the numbers and I understand how they work\u2014in my view, simply talking about \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D does not signify what this is. We are changing a fundamental Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245fadef8f1b142658c77d2b91461671f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt such an eloquent member\u2014Lawrence Yule\u2014but the time has come for me to leave the Chair. We will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002216320c4d69254b7ab87ad46f48cb6fa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216320c4d69254b7ab87ad46f48cb6fa0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Colleagues, when we rose from the dinner break we were considering clauses 1 to 3 of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. Lawrence Yule had the call and has three minutes and 49 seconds remaining, should he so wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd61159eecf9422c8c29add7dcf9b04d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd61159eecf9422c8c29add7dcf9b04d\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, Mr Yule is unable to be here. I would like to speak on the title of this bill. The bill is called the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. We understand, of course, that hydrocarbons produce more than petrol. It may be confusing to many people but there are many products that come from petroleum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI would prefer to call this bill the \u201CCrown Minerals (Hydrocarbon Hijack) Amendment Bill\u201D, because the Minister took everybody by surprise. She may have said that it was well signalled but I was at the petroleum conference when she said to them \u201CWe are the Government that listens, then acts. That consults widely, thinks through issues deeply and seeks to forge consensus on how we can take New Zealand forward together.\u201D That statement probably reflects the principles of a just transition. But while they were waiting for the consultation to commence, they were informed on 12 April of the Prime Minister\u2019s decision as she spoke to other coalition leaders. In fact, that this decision was made by three political leaders without a Cabinet paper going through Cabinet, and with, I would say, incredible repercussions through New Zealand\u2014certainly in the short and medium term\u2014then that is a hijack. A hijack is when something happens by surprise and suddenly you find yourself poorer. I think that New Zealand has been ambushed. I think we find ourselves poorer because of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EYou know, we all, I think, generally agree that we want to head into a low-emission economy and into a future\u2014in fact, the Productivity Commission\u2019s work was initiated by the Hon Steven Joyce. So that was a work that came out of the prior Government. But I think that when it comes to entering a low-emissions future\u2014and every commentator would agree with this and say this is correct\u2014it\u2019s going to be costly to the economy. Look, it\u2019s a very important goal for obvious reasons, but we\u2019ve got to be able to get there. The Productivity Commission warned us that if the costs were too high it would deter New Zealanders from embracing that pathway. I think this bill, this hijacking, this ambush, this surprise, has dissuaded many, many New Zealanders who ordinarily might have thought \u201CYes, we need to progress systematically with good planning and, obviously, making incremental gains as we head towards that future.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t call this a just transition; it\u2019s really a shock transition. What I think this country needs is a smart transition, where we have thorough planning, thorough consultation, and we can put together the energy mix that we need in this country to remain economically secure, when we can put it together very carefully, rather than killing off one sector hoping that another one will grow in its place, because, essentially, this is what this bill is trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think New Zealanders have been duped by the Government. A big smile and words of empathy, a sweet camouflage for what has been described as a \u201Ckick in the guts\u201D by the mayor of New Plymouth, or a \u201Csymbolic beheading\u201D by one of New Zealand\u2019s leading energy reporters. New Zealanders are being tricked that this is good for us, that this is what we have to do to stop climate change. And yes, the Minister was challenged for research to back up that this is what it will achieve for New Zealand, and I don\u2019t think it does. I do not think that this achieves this goal for New Zealand. I think New Zealanders are taken by surprise that such a powerful and disruptive piece of legislation designed to head us towards a low-emission economy actually makes no difference to our domestic emissions or our global emissions. I did wonder today, when the Minister accused me of saying \u201CNew Zealand was too small to make a difference.\u201D, whether she had read the advice that came from her officials, because the officials said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227150cd15afb24a408902a9bdda9a5ede\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Clauses 1 to 3\u20141 to 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223500331afbd74db2908ed498a858f69d\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon, Madam?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54df75d79f14cea883d1a9cda8c8c02\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: 1 to 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1564c38ddee42059bf995a14be4df58\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Clauses 1 to 3. Right, so coming back to the title\u2014thank you very much. \u201CHydrocarbon Hijack\u201D or \u201CI Don\u2019t Read My Official Notes\u201D could be another subtitle to this bill. I won\u2019t go there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo what we see here, I believe, is an effect on New Zealand\u2019s economy. When I talk about hydrocarbon hijack, whenever there\u2019s that type of approach to legislation, it bruises people, it injures people, it makes people worse off and poorer. It\u2019s not just the oil and gas workers in my region; it\u2019s where they now no longer spend their money. So it\u2019s the chap down the road who might sell them a suit; it\u2019s the people who work in the restaurants who might feed them and make them a meal. Those are the sorts of people who get affected by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI call this \u201CUltimate Nimbyism (Not in My Backyard\u201D\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022a65968bc1ac64ab6825acc8fe74a017d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a65968bc1ac64ab6825acc8fe74a017d\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I gave the member the courtesy of waiting to the end of his contribution before I raised this point of order; however, I am aware that contributions on the title clause must not provide suggestions that are clearly a critique of the contents of the bill. I would argue that that suggestion was exactly that. I would hate to see this debate go on unnecessarily and see the other side of the House suggest things that weren\u2019t consistent with the Speakers\u2019 Rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5422271e0c04097b1b1364787cfa69e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5422271e0c04097b1b1364787cfa69e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but the Speakers\u2019 Rulings also states that it\u2019s the Chair who decides that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec9cad622f374d3787d74a8d5fe46b14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec9cad622f374d3787d74a8d5fe46b14\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002238d8b76ecf954ea4b5565f3584ba5927\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d8b76ecf954ea4b5565f3584ba5927\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It\u2019ll be a pleasure to speak in any way that you should feel appropriate in relation to the clause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa595938fe2444b790fdac36918a9a37\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Just follow the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226158a8f243c54acbab2e0681047a4c36\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I will follow the rules. I\u2019ll follow the rules so tightly that you will be, no doubt, very impressed with the number of different title observations that I have to make including\u2014well, let\u2019s get the obvious out the way\u2014the Crown Minerals Amendment Bill. It will amend the Crown Minerals Act 1991\u2014so far so good. But what\u2019s in the brackets there? The word \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D, I would suggest, could be actually usefully substituted to provide a clearer description\u2014and not for any other purpose, Mr McAnulty\u2014and I have a number of different suggestions along those lines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first could actually be the phrase \u201C(Nuclear-free Moment)\u201D. It could be the \u201CCrown Minerals (Nuclear-free Moment) Amendment Bill\u201D. That\u2019s something of an olive branch that I would offer to the Government benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ec727caaaff4e8492a31a045dcce292\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: An olive oil branch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ba859c7c0e4d88a234edf52351148c\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s something that they feel is appropriate to the nature of the bill. Ha, ha! An olive oil branch has been suggested. Well, I think that\u2019s probably a gratuitous attempt to get the word oil into the bill. So I\u2019ll ignore that comment from Mr Simeon Brown and not allow myself to be distracted and waste any of the House\u2019s time on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut the significance of the \u201C(Nuclear-free Moment)\u201D suggestion that I made is that, actually\u2014well, ironically\u2014if nuclear energy were the substitution, that is not provided in this bill, then we would be, perhaps, not having the pyrrhic victory that we\u2019re going to have in relation to carbon emissions, as has been previously outlined on this side of the House. To be clear, I\u2019m not suggesting that necessarily\u2014that would go to the content of the bill, and not the title\u2014but I think \u201C(Nuclear-free Moment)\u201D would have that nice little double meaning, perhaps, according to which side of the debate one finds oneself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnother suggestion would be something along the lines of \u201C(Investment Implications)\u201D\u2014so the \u201CCrown Minerals (Investment Implications) Amendment Bill\u201D. There are significant implications for the emotional investment and the political investment that the Government has placed in this bill, and, of course, investment in the more literal and obvious sense in relation to extraction industries that have served us well as a country, both in terms of energy supply and, indeed, in economic terms is obvious too. So, again, I\u2019m making a suggestion that I think might find favour on both sides of the House by offering something that could be viewed as a positive no matter which angle one approaches this bill from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy next suggestion is the word \u201C(Coal)\u201D, and, just to be clear, I\u2019m talking about the substance that\u2019s used to burn energy. Charlie\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e6f81a95980419c9ac8c6a443726eff\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Not talking about \u201Ccoalition\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f110f3b2924fa78a3ccfa4ffc20990\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: No, not talking about \u201Ccoalition\u201D, actually, funnily enough, or indeed the acronym \u201CCOL\u201D\u2014Charlie Oscar Lima\u2014which I won\u2019t go into on this occasion; it wouldn\u2019t be appropriate. So just \u201C(Coal)\u201D on the face of it\u2014the coalface of it, so to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo moving on, finally, to a couple of other suggestions, perhaps, it could be called the \u201CCrown Minerals (Climate Change Impact) Amendment Bill\u201D. Again, in the spirit of bipartisanship, recognising the significance that both sides of the debate place upon this bill, well, there will be some sort of impact, and we can all agree on that\u2014whether it is substantial or insubstantial is a question of debate. But, actually, more significantly, in relation to the discussion we are now having in this committee, on this side of the Chamber we believe actually that the impact will be real but will be adverse. The reason for that is outlined much more eloquently than I\u2019ll be able to manage\u2014but, briefly, to make sense of my title-related suggestion is simply that the impact will be adverse because we\u2019ll end up as a country importing energy from overseas that is less clean than that which we are extracting and supplying and consuming locally already. So \u201C(Climate Change Impact)\u201D would be a suggestion to allow both sides to claim some sort of moral victory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThen, finally, the \u201CTaranaki Economy Impacts Bill\u201D would be another way of characterising this piece of proposed legislation. The disappointing aspect of that is that that can only mean one thing: it could not be, in this case, both positive and negative in a Schr\u00F6dinger\u2019s cat kind of way but actually only could be negative. It couldn\u2019t be anything else inside that policy box; it could only be a negative effect on a part of the world that has actually served our country very well and, indeed, other parts of the world in splendid fashion too. If we\u2019re considering climate change or global warming as a global problem, we need to see it in these terms, not just in view of New Zealand\u2019s emissions, but, none the less, I am sad to report, as my various title suggestions make clear, that I think that these will not be served well in that regard either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u002248af1449b62c423d81c03e6b87396cd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248af1449b62c423d81c03e6b87396cd4\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to be taking a call tonight on the title clause of the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill. I do so with some hesitation, actually, because I don\u2019t typically take calls on title clauses, but I genuinely think tonight that they have titled this bill incorrectly, because there is no suggestion in here of what the bill does. It mentions petroleum, which is fair enough, but it doesn\u2019t talk about the fact that permits will be ended. It\u2019s not very specific at all in what the bill\u2019s intent actually is. So I\u2019ve got a few suggestions which I\u2019d like to put before the committee for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe first one of those is the \u201CCrown Minerals (Effect on Regional Development) Amendment Bill\u201D. And the reason for that is that I think even the members opposite would appreciate there will be an effect on regional development, not just in Taranaki, of course. My good friend from Taranaki, Jonathan Young, has been talking about the impact on Taranaki, where there\u2019s something like 15,000 jobs that are reliant on the oil and gas sector. And so I think that to adequately portray what this legislation does, we do need to be talking about the effect on regional development in Taranaki and also in other parts of the country, because it\u2019s not just Taranaki that it will affect; it will also be other parts of the country. As we know, the legislation does lay out that Taranaki onshore will be protected for at least the short term, but it\u2019s silent on\u2014in fact, it bans\u2014any other development in any other part of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe example I used earlier in the debate was my area of South Canterbury, which will be affected, and this bill will affect it and that\u2019s why I think it does need to be talking more about the effect on regional development in the title of the bill. There are 3,100 jobs on the line\u2014the Barque development would create 3,100\u2014and so that will have an impact on regional development if that development doesn\u2019t go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe second one I wanted to point out was just in relation to the consultation process that we\u2019ve gone through on this bill. And so the second title I\u2019d suggest would be the \u201CCrown Minerals (Four Weeks\u2019 Consultation) Amendment Bill\u201D. And, again, I think that would quite adequately portray the process that we\u2019ve gone through, because, again, I think members opposite would appreciate that it has been a truncated process. Generally, legislation goes off to select committee for about six months. This select committee, the Environment Committee, had just four weeks to consider it. That included two weeks of hearings and two weeks of consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022894fed5150744f64a7137bd914e03f29\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Hearings but not much listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94248f65a66439c8226a8d2c6062d02\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: And so, as part of that, they didn\u2019t go off\u2014exactly; not much listening\u2014to Taranaki, for example, which is very disappointing when the majority of jobs will be lost there. So I think that if we are to properly portray what process this legislation\u2019s gone through, we should consider changing the title to the \u201CCrown Minerals (Four Weeks\u2019 Consultation) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe third one I\u2019d like to put on the table for members to consider is the \u201CCrown Minerals (Environmental Impacts) Amendment Bill\u201D. Again, I think members opposite have talked at length today about the environmental impacts of the oil and gas sector, and I don\u2019t think they\u2019d get too much argument from this side of the Chamber. Of course there\u2019s an environmental impact from the oil and gas sector. Again, as my colleague Jonathan Young has pointed out previously in the debate, there is already transition under way. Most companies and others are transitioning away from fossil fuels, and you see that with the likes of Fonterra moving away from coal. And so when we talk about this bill\u2014in particular, when we talk about the title of the bill\u2014we should be considering what the environmental impacts are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe look at the advice that the Government\u2019s received, and I just want to point to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s (MBIE\u2019s) advice, where they made two particular comments. The first one is that the net impact on global emissions is uncertain but more likely to be negative rather than positive. And that\u2019s quite an important point, which I think should be reflected in the title of the bill, rather than just calling it the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill, which doesn\u2019t talk to the reasons that the Government\u2019s putting the bill up. They\u2019re talking about the environmental impact, so that should be reflected in the title of the bill. And unfortunately, as MBIE\u2019s own advice has pointed out, the environmental impacts are negative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe second thing they go on to say is that it will result in a likely increase in global greenhouse gas emissions in the short to medium term, and that\u2019s the advice I found particularly remarkable. Again, it should be reflected in the title of the bill, because what members opposite haven\u2019t done, simply by putting \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D in the title, is talk about the fact that the impact on the environment in the short to medium term will be negative rather than positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo I think any one of those three titles would more adequately reflect what the content of the legislation is. Simply putting \u201C(Petroleum)\u201D in the title doesn\u2019t talk about the economic impacts on regions, it doesn\u2019t talk about the process that we\u2019ve gone through to get here, it doesn\u2019t talk about the environmental impacts, and it certainly doesn\u2019t even talk about the fact that we\u2019re ending permits for offshore oil and gas exploration. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002289699acde4e741749bbfb1d5f089c5bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289699acde4e741749bbfb1d5f089c5bd\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d33cda80f6c94673a5c177587a157991\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228c2ee546101c4b158c169beae51dc134\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000518\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 152 in the name of Jonathan Young to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229d9be837a25b40c4a2e7c80eb7ac8ef2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a0daccb8dbb2458bae60b435d8f80f31\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bed73e9df5824f349410620a2a6ddab5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000519\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000520\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000521\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0302363181e4d1d8a3dc6ccf19ce69b\u0022\u003ESocial Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb123dfc9795477795ee1b8ccfce6fc1\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002286bd225085804cff8e08ba305ff83343\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286bd225085804cff8e08ba305ff83343\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill reflects this Government\u2019s commitment to strengthening the partnership between New Zealand and our Pacific neighbours. In particular, we want to recognise the close constitutional ties we have with the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, and the contribution people from these nations have made and continue to make to New Zealand. This bill enhances our already strong ties to these nations. By providing greater pension flexibility for people who wish to live in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, this bill reflects how we want to work together toward greater social and economic development in the Pacific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand superannuation and veterans pension are our main forms of income support for older New Zealanders. New Zealand superannuation is payable at age 65 to any New Zealand citizen or resident who is ordinarily resident in New Zealand when he or she applies, and who has been resident and present in New Zealand for 10 years over the age of 20, and also five years over the age of 50. Veterans pension is the alternative pension for veterans and their partners who qualify for New Zealand superannuation based on veterans\u2019 Qualifying Operational Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ECurrent pension portability arrangements allow people to take their New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension to one of 22 Pacific countries and territories, including the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. The provision that makes this possible is called the Special Portability Arrangement. Under the arrangement, New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension is paid at a minimum of 50 percent after 10 years\u2019 residence in New Zealand, rising to 100 per cent after 20 years\u2019 residence. Generally, to be eligible under the Special Portability Arrangement, a person must be resident and present in New Zealand on the date of his or her application. An amendment to the Special Portability Arrangement introduced in 2015 allows people resident in the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau to apply for New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension from the Islands, rather than needing to be resident and present in New Zealand at the time of their application. The intent of this change was to remove a disincentive for people to return to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau to live. However, the change has had a smaller take-up than expected. It is now evident that the 2015 change, while removing some disincentives for skilled people to return to the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau during their working lives, did not really achieve the desired effect of encouraging people to move back to and remain in those countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe Governments of the Cook Islands and Niue have expressed concern that the five years over age 50 residence requirement was the reason for the low take-up of the amendment made in 2015. They considered that the five over 50 residency requirement was deterring skilled people from returning to and contributing to their countries. They also expressed concern that the five years over 50 residence requirement may actually induce some people to return to New Zealand in order to ensure that they will be able to claim New Zealand superannuation or veterans pension later on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis bill will remedy these concerns by allowing the requirement that a person have five years\u2019 residence and presence in New Zealand over the age of 50 years to be met instead with residence and presence in either New Zealand, the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau, or any combination of these countries. This Government also wants to ensure that superannuitants have as many options as possible as to where they choose to live, by allowing people to use residence over the age of 50 in New Zealand, the Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau, or any combination of these countries to qualify for New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension. This bill will achieve both these things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe change is for the Realm countries, because this bill is about recognising New Zealand\u2019s close constitutional relationships with these Pacific Islands\u2014the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau\u2014which do enjoy shared citizenship with New Zealand and unique legal arrangements. Tokelau is a non - self-governing territory of New Zealand. Both the Cook Islands and Niue have adopted constitutions enabling self-government and free association with New Zealand. Free association is a status distinct from that of full independence in that it allows the Cook Islands and Niue to maintain New Zealand citizenship while administering their own affairs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, this bill is also about ensuring the economic and social viability of the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. Depopulation and its related social and economic consequences is a longstanding issue for the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. The current five years over 50 in New Zealand requirement has been described as a disincentive for Cook Islanders, Niueans, and Tokelauans established in New Zealand to return home before the age of 55. Removing this disincentive would potentially help boost economic development and human resource capacity in these islands through an increased return of experienced people able to effectively apply skills acquired in New Zealand in their home communities. People returning in their 30s, 40s, and 50s would have the capacity to contribute to the workforce up to 35 years in advance of the age of qualification for New Zealand superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI really want to acknowledge the support for this bill from members of the House. I also want to acknowledge the support for this bill from Realm countries. I particularly want to acknowledge the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands, who has been a strong advocate for this change to legislation and, in fact, was here with us during the first reading of this bill in the House here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who announced this alongside myself and the Prime Minister in the Cook Islands earlier this year. I really want to acknowledge the opportunity that we had to announce it there in the Cook Islands, which was a very special announcement given how many people have been fighting for this change over a long period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that this really is absolutely aligned with this Government\u2019s commitment to a Pacific reset\u2014a reset that will see us treating and working with our Pacific Island neighbours as true partners. And this is indicative of that, given that this is a request put to us\u2014that we value the contribution that Pacific people have made in New Zealand, but we also absolutely respect the contribution that they should be supported to make in their home island countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the support for the bill across the House. I\u2019m pleased that we can come together to support this bill and make positive changes for people in our neighbouring Pacific nations. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u002292bcc350101443e8841e39564a9ff6fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292bcc350101443e8841e39564a9ff6fa\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a call in the third reading of the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. It\u2019s a proud day for myself, being a descendant of the Cook Islands, and also too I want to acknowledge Poto Williams, the Assistant Speaker, who also is a descendant of the Cook Islands, as well. I want to acknowledge the Hon Kris Faafoi, who is a descendant of the island of Tokelau, and being that there\u2019s no one in the House of Niuean descent, I might just claim that, because my wife is half-Niuean as well\u2014from the beautiful island of Niue, the village of Mutalau, and from the Fuemana family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252f2103e5f9541f88d84f802fa675fdc\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: So is my son\u2014from Mutalau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e1f714d3c1443f8be5d63f5f87cc76\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Oh sorry, I want to acknowledge others on the other side that may have some connections, as well. Those three nations are acknowledged as nations of the Realm and they have a very special relationship. In fact, it\u2019s so special that when people sing the national anthem, they may think that in the words where it says to \u201CGuard Pacific\u2019s triple star\u201D, those are the three nations of the Realm that are regarded in that vein, because it is not only a protectorate relationship but also a provision of support right across not only the House but also too in our relationship throughout the Pacific region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis bill is significant, and I want to commend the Government of the day for supporting this work, which actually began in 2014. At that time, the Hon Murray McCully had been petitioned for some time and he was asked about changes that could be made around the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act of 2001 and also the Veterans\u2019 Support Act. He was asked if they could be amended, be changed, in order to give portability of the pension, especially around the issues of depopulation for those particular three Realm nations, where the impact to the economy and the impact to the social fabric of those communities and those very small Island nations was dependent on a return. That was the hope\u2014that they would return back someday to their homelands. Unfortunately, that hasn\u2019t been the case. So the hope of this bill, of this change, and of these amendments is to try and address those issues. I put that on record, and I think that\u2019s critically important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI also too want to acknowledge that the changes that were made in 2015\u2014and I was fortunate to be able to chair the Social Services Committee at that time. I have to say on the record that I\u2019m not sure whether in this Parliament we have actually ever had two heads of State\u2014we had the Hon Henry Puna from the Cook Islands and the Premier of Niue, the Hon Toke Talagi, who came and presented their submissions to the select committee. Again, I think it\u2019s a rare occasion, but on that occasion, they made their submissions, and their submissions were based on the principle that this portability of the pension would allow their people who have left the Islands to return back home and, again, bring back with them experience, expertise, and qualifications that would benefit the welfare, the well-being, the prosperity, and the peace of those Island nations as well. So that\u2019s why it became critically important to us in this regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI think what\u2019s also important, again, is that this relationship has been valued to the point that in 2017, the Hon Murray McCully actually wrote a letter to the Minister for Social Development at that time, and I actually think it might have been you, Madam Deputy Speaker, at that time, which\u2014I\u2019m not wanting to bring you into the debate. But it was to actually petition the cause that when the Act came into force in 2015, there was a provision to review that within two years. Now, the costing around that\u2014potentially, it would have cost the New Zealand taxpayers around about $5 million. In fact, over two years, it only cost a million dollars. So on that principle also too, with added lobbying from the three Realm nations, it was felt by the Minister of Foreign Affairs at that time that we should actually make the changes to remove the ability to be present and resident in New Zealand, so that those of the Realm nations could return back, having served 10 years of residency and having been present in New Zealand, and could then actually serve the rest of those five years to be eligible for the superannuation in those realm nations\u2014in fact, the bill actually states that it can be a combination of all three of those nations, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo I want to state that I think and believe that that\u2019s critically important, and this bill has had a long history. It\u2019s a history that we would say can be shared right across the House now, because this current Government is now continuing on the roles that are really important in that regard as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to also too put on the record that in recent times, people have questioned the contribution of those in Pacific. In fact, not just in recent times but over a number of years, people have asked what is the contribution to the Pacific nations and what have they actually contributed to both New Zealand as a society and also its history and its heritage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI go back to the fact that in 1917, and, in fact, in this very House\u2014and the Hon Peeni Henare was here when we re-enacted the service that was held there in this House, in this Chamber, to acknowledge the Rarotongan regiment, the contingent, that first came through here. It was acknowledged\u2014the fact of their contribution\u2014when Sir M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare realised after Gallipoli that there was a shortage of those who could contribute to the war efforts of World War I, so he went across to the Realm nations. He went to the Cook Islands, where they contributed up to 500 throughout that period of time over the next three years. He then went to the island of Niue, where they contributed over 147. So if one was to calculate per capita what the Pacific contributed, even though New Zealand contributed over 100,000 and lost 18,000 men and women over that period of time, the Pacific region, per capita, contributed more. I want to acknowledge that and I want to put that on record. So its contribution is actually one that should be noted, and it has contributed over that period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn World War II, when there was a workforce shortage, again, it was New Zealand that went across to the whole of the Pacific region, and one will see that from the migrations from 1946 right through to the 1950s and 1960s, we had a number from the Pacific region who came and made a contribution. So we would say that at that period of time, the contribution to the workforce and to the development of New Zealand was contributed by our Pacific neighbours, who came along as well. So they certainly deserve to be able to be acknowledged and recognised, and this also recognises the special relationship that they have, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EDuring the submission process, it wasn\u2019t all plain sailing. There were a number of submissions that actually started to question the impact that this would have. I want to note that from the island of Niue, one of the concerns was the fact that more Niueans may return back to New Zealand and serve 10 years after turning 50, which would adversely affect Niue itself. Niue has a population of around 11,000 to 12,000. There were concerns that they would return to New Zealand and that Niue would depopulate to the point where their public services would actually suffer, and so forth. However, what was confirmed with both the officials and with our response through our select committee report was that we didn\u2019t believe those concerns would actually materialise, because we believed there were a number already here in New Zealand\u2014Niueans who had come to New Zealand to gain qualifications, development work, and expertise\u2014who would return there. In fact, that is currently the case. The population of Niue has stabilised and, in fact, has actually increased over that period of time. So we think that is an important contribution, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOne of the other impacts that was talked about was just in regards to other New Zealanders that were overseas that may have been from the three different nations of the Realm and what would be the impact upon them. The fact is that they had lived overseas over that period of time. What we can say from the officials\u2019 advice that we\u2019ve been given is that as long as they are in countries that have a reciprocal social security agreement, then their period of time of residency in those places will be counted in the 10 years after the age of 20 and before the age of 50, and then it could also be contributed to their five years after turning 50, as well. We wanted to put that on record so that it allayed some of the fears over there, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI think that, again, right across the House, we would agree that this is an important bill. It\u2019s a bill that recognises for those small Island nations the importance of the roles and responsibility that they have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn the last few speeches in this House over the last week, I\u2019ve been noted to be able to bring a song with some words to the speech, and I want to continue that. I may not sing the song, but what I will do is\u2014there\u2019s a Cook Islands song that actually was brought to light and it was sung over many times, often at parties and in places, and everyone thought it was just a party song, a great love ballad, but, in actual fact, the song was actually written during World War I. It was written by a wife who was actually serenading her husband as he went off to war. The song talks about: \u201CAue t\u0101ku tane, aue taku \u2018inangaro\u201D [\u201COh my dear husband, oh my love\u201D].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo what it talks about is \u201COh, to my beloved one. As you go out to the seas, we ask that you will return one day\u201D. What they used to do in the tradition was they would have two leis that they would give\u2014leis with flowers. They would put one on their beloved one and, as they went off, they would throw the other one out into the sea. The belief was that one day, if the other lei returned back, they would return back to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo this bill talks about the returning of Pacific nations, Pacific people, back to the homelands to contribute to the welfare, well-being, peace, and prosperity of the Island nations. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022981b4214babe4b6bbcdbd79269a4fe40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022981b4214babe4b6bbcdbd79269a4fe40\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you for this opportunity. I rise to take a brief call on the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. I\u2019m heartened that throughout the entire process of this bill, the sentiment and the stories of history told in relation to the contribution of the Islands of Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands to New Zealand Aotearoa, and of course the war effort, as mentioned by the Hon Alfred Ngaro. I think that serves as a timely reminder for one and all in Aotearoa New Zealand, and indeed across the islands that this bill pertains to, just exactly how we are joined together. We\u2019re tied together by history, and in this particular bill, we are also tied together in the future prosperity, as the honourable member Alfred Ngaro has already mentioned\u2014the future prosperity to allow our people, Pacific Island people of Cook Islands, Tokelauan, and Niuean descent, to return home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to endorse the words of the Minister the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, who, in pointing out the parts of this bill, also talked about a broader agenda around the Pacific nations and the agenda of this Government. Indeed with the support of the relevant Ministers, we\u2019re able to have these conversations for meaningful development in those islands, but just as much for in those islands, meaningful development of those communities here in Aotearoa New Zealand. So, look, without further ado, with support right across the House, I want to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022b22664de426b4f4e81862933f17b4243\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b22664de426b4f4e81862933f17b4243\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure this evening to take a call on the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. As my colleague the Hon Alfred Ngaro mentioned, today is, in fact, a good day. This moment is a good moment because we have, for the last few hours, been opposed to some legislation in the House, and at this moment the House stands in unison for this bill, which is going to make a fantastic contribution to the Islands but also New Zealand as well. The National Party certainly endorses this bill. We recall the former Prime Minister Bill English and his visit to the Pacific Islands late last year, in which he certainly endorsed this bill as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge, first and foremost, my own family members who come from the Cook Islands: my half-brother James Asekona, and also my godson Zion Bidois and my niece Astyn Bidois\u2014thank you there. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge our colleagues from both sides of the House who have some connection to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau: Poto Williams, the Hon Kris Faafoi, and the Hon Alfred Ngaro, to name all that I can that I have knowledge of at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is very, very simple. It is to enable the residency requirements for New Zealand super and for the veterans pension to be met with spending time in the Realm\u2014that is, in Tokelau, Niue, or the Cook Islands. In terms of that requirement, it\u2019s simply the 10 years over 20 and also the five years over 50 requirement. This is about fairness. It\u2019s about making sure that those that are contributing to New Zealand\u2019s economy are fairly rewarded. It\u2019s also about flexibility and about fulfilling the requirements for the New Zealand superannuation in the Realm and providing that flexibility for people to do so. But it also is about the contribution that these people could make to the Realm in terms of their local activity, and also remittances as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the Minister Carmel Sepuloni for her encouraging words in this bill and throughout the select committee process in the Social Services and Community Committee. It is, in fact, a really good bill to go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIn the past, I\u2019ve talked about the unique relationship that New Zealand shares with the Pacific. We are a part of the Pacific Islands. Historically that has been the case, and today, but also from a political perspective. From post World War II\u2014from 1946\u2014right up until today, we have had a political relationship, starting out with the South Pacific Commission and going right up to today as well. Then, finally, we have had an economic relationship, in terms of citizens who are from the Realm who come and contribute to New Zealand\u2019s economy but also vice versa: New Zealand citizens that are in the Realm and are able to provide an economic contribution to that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIn terms of what this bill is trying to do, it\u2019s really\u2014when you are a New Zealand citizen and you move abroad, there are currently three ways that you\u2019re able to obtain the New Zealand super or veterans pension. The first is through a reciprocal agreement, where a New Zealander moves away and receives the pension in the country that they move to, and the New Zealand pension, and that\u2019s kind of a mixed scheme. The second is through a special portability element, which is where somebody who moves overseas from New Zealand is able to also claim the New Zealand pension, and that\u2019s in a sense portable. And then the final case is through general portability, in terms of being able to get the pension wherever you move to as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe problem that this bill tries to solve is that those who are from the Realm who\u2019ve moved to New Zealand, who have contributed to New Zealand\u2019s economy but have a desire to move back to Niue, Tokelau, or the Cook Islands, are able to continue to fulfil the requirements for New Zealand superannuation and also contribute to the economy and also maintain a connection that they have as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIn the select committee process, we received a grand total of seven submissions. We had two of those submissions that were oral submissions, but there were a number of issues that came up that I wanted to just outline for the people watching at home today, as I know many people do. The first is that this bill may, in fact, discriminate against those that are from the Realm, because it, essentially, provides a case where others can get it as well. I want to just say very clearly that this bill doesn\u2019t discriminate against people from the Realm. It applies to New Zealanders who have spent time living overseas, and those provisions apply to those New Zealanders, as well as those that are from the Realm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe second issue that was raised is that there was a concern that it would, in fact, unfairly advantage those citizens from the Realm. I just want to say that it, in fact, does not do that in this bill. In fact, anybody who is a New Zealand citizen who has lived abroad is able to, essentially, use this bill and go to any country in the Realm and fulfil their residency requirements. So it\u2019s not just restricted to people from the Realm; it\u2019s also much wider than that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe final thing was that this bill may, in fact, take away economic value from these countries. I just want to say again that the advice that we\u2019ve had, and it\u2019s very clear to note, is that economic contributions to these countries will, in fact, increase because these people will be going back, taking the skills that they\u2019ve learnt and they\u2019ve honed in New Zealand back to their local economies. They\u2019ll also be taking remittances back to these economies, so there\u2019ll be other economic contributions in that front as well. So there we have it: essentially, the issues that were raised in the select committee process\u2014I\u2019ve been able to demonstrate that we\u2019ve had a commitment that, in fact, this bill will not have anything amount to those in the bill itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of final remarks on the bill, it is a very important bill because New Zealand is part of the Pacific, and I think we stand with our neighbours in saying that if you meet the residency requirements and the 10 years over 20, you\u2019re able to do the five years over 50 and contribute as well. We also want others to be able to contribute to the countries of Niue, Tokelau, and the Cook Islands. Finding ways like this bill that encourages people to go back and contribute to their economies is, I think, a really important thing as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe final thing I\u2019d like to say, certainly on the eve of Armistice Day, is that I\u2019d like to thank all of our veterans for their service. I\u2019m actually sitting next to one of my colleagues here, Chris Penk, who has served in the navy, but for everybody in my electorate of Northcote who has served, it\u2019s quite appropriate because this bill does actually affect them as well. I just think it\u2019s really important that we note on the eve of Armistice Day the service that these people have given throughout the years, which is a very important 100-years occasion since World War I. So I\u2019d like to make that a final thing there, and I just want to say that this is a good bill. It\u2019s something that is going to receive good support in the House, as opposed to the bills that we were debating earlier today, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002214c6d94b60be43edba018f6906d6614a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214c6d94b60be43edba018f6906d6614a\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First. It\u2019s a delight and a privilege to be here at this third reading of the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill and to indicate to the House, as we have right from the outset, that New Zealand First will be supporting this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate Minister Sepuloni for bringing this legislation through. It\u2019s a piece of legislation that New Zealand First has campaigned on, I think, ever since the Rt Hon Winston Peters did the most sensible thing and left the National Party, formed New Zealand First, and set out his policy goals and objectives for a better New Zealand. I think a couple of things that stood out very clearly, given the rather interesting speeches tonight coming from the Opposition benches, is that this proposition was put up first in the coalition negotiations with National in 1996. They rejected it. This proposition, I have to say, was also put up during other coalition negotiations with another party and Mr Michael Cullen couldn\u2019t see his way forward either. I have to say that we campaigned on advancing such a piece of legislation over many election campaigns only to be told time and time again \u201CIt\u2019s unaffordable, unnecessary.\u201D, and yet here tonight I rejoice in listening to the Hon Alfred Ngaro\u2019s speech, where he gave all the compelling reasons as to why this legislation should be supported and indicated that he is very grateful and pleased to be supporting his whanaunga, in particular in the Cook Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very happy that the National Party has finally fallen in. I detected, reading between the lines of what he actually said, that he as a Minister in the last Government actually wanted this legislation passed. He did say that one of the reasons that it wasn\u2019t put forward was because of the huge cost, which he then said in his speech\u2014and I was watching him on the TV there tonight\u2014was costed at $5 million. Then he said that subsequent to this bill being tabled by this very good Government and the select committee process, it was ascertained that the costs never reached that\u2014that the costs were only $1 million. So it now begs the very interesting question, in the light of all the other wonderful things that have been said by the National Party Opposition, who were the Government who rejected the New Zealand First Supplementary Order Paper on 29 April 2015 to do this very thing\u2014in fact, Mr Alfred Ngaro voted it down\u2014what is the price of their value in the Realm States? Because now we know that the Realm States are not worth $5 million. We know that because Mr Ngaro said that the legislation\u2014and he gave all the great reasons as to why it should have been supported, but despite all of that they rejected it because it was going to cost $5 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EWell, there was a flag referendum, ladies and gentlemen, touted by that Government of the day around the country that cost $27 million as far as we can ascertain\u2014because the full and direct costs have never come out. So, on the one hand, we stand here tonight and applaud ourselves and pat ourselves on the back for passing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f1b91d95e54719ac93fa11dcc61ae5\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: What about the sheep in Saudi Arabia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d456a9b00d427b85c5b37c44ec7a5f\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t even mentioned the sheep farm in Saudi Arabia. They saw more value in a sheikh with sheep than they did in the citizens of the Realm States like the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau, who, he said, gave disproportionately in blood to the freedom of the world through their contribution in World War I. I detect the smell of a certain word that I will never utter in this House. But it actually says to me that the National Party put a price on the value of the Realm States and it was $5 million. And it tells me something else: see, in this Government, we get advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b1d564242434d80a6adb0e2e62ebc15\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would like you to talk to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b88c095e38934976b242c017588bce06\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Narrowing down to the bill\u2014this has happened to me before. One of the things that this Government did in making this decision\u2014and Mr Ngaro is absolutely correct to point out that in the select committee process the costings were looked at. It turned out that the costings were nothing like those that were given to the National Government of the day. And I detect that he regrets listening to that advice, but that\u2019s the difference between Minister Sepuloni and that Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EMinister Sepuloni looked at the legislation, took the advice from officials, and had enough wisdom and judgment to see through advice to see exactly what it really would mean. That is the level of governance and the quality of Ministers one needs if one is to govern responsibly. And I really felt sorry for Mr Ngaro as he sat there in that select committee and heard evidence that totally contradicted the evidence that he received on this very same matter, on something that he actually wanted to do as a Minister but was prevented from doing. So I\u2019m going to congratulate the Hon Alfred Ngaro for his speech tonight\u2014for its honesty and for opening a window and allowing us to see inside of what actually happened in that administration with respect to section 8(c) of this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe National Opposition\u2014and, I would say, led by the Hon Alfred Ngaro\u2014has come to exactly the right position on this piece of legislation, and on New Zealand First\u2019s side we thank him for that. We genuinely thank them. We regret that it took three years. I know that the cost they predicted was huge. From 2015 to 2018, on their projections, on the advice they took, it stood to cost, what, $15 million? But I would propose\u2014New Zealand First would propose\u2014that even $15 million is a cheap price to pay for the loyalty and for the people of Tokelau, Niue, and the Cook Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThank you very much for the opportunity to speak in the House on this bill. We support the legislation and look forward to hearing the votes on this, the third reading, and I finish by once again congratulating Minister Sepuloni for a wonderful piece of outstanding work. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00226d6784024120443fbc3a3ba8bb05dbd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d6784024120443fbc3a3ba8bb05dbd8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. What we\u2019ve just heard was, I think, a very good pitch for the deputy leadership of the New Zealand First Party. In his first minute, he managed to get the Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2019 name in there. I guess maybe that\u2019s part of what New Zealand First MPs sign up to when they become members of the New Zealand First Party. But let\u2019s talk about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EUnlike what the previous speaker, Ron Mark, was talking about, let\u2019s talk about this excellent piece of legislation, which is being progressed through Parliament unanimously here tonight. If you\u2019d just been listening at home to that speaker, you may have thought this was about something completely different, but this debate is about the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill, and it is about bringing equality to the Realm when it comes to the social assistance, the superannuation, and the veterans support benefits which are available to all members of the Realm of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important at this point to note that New Zealand is a Realm under our Queen, Queen Elizabeth II, and the countries which make up that Realm are New Zealand and the two countries which are in free association with New Zealand\u2014the Cook Islands and Niue\u2014and Tokelau, which is a dependency of New Zealand. Those three countries, alongside New Zealand, are the Realm of New Zealand, and therefore we have a special relationship and a special bond with those countries, which I think is very important and something that this bill does a lot to secure and to solidify and to imbed further in as we look to the future of our closeness as countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this bill here does some very important things. Primarily, what it does is ensure that those who are eligible for New Zealand superannuation have the same access to superannuation, not depending upon where they live. Currently, what is required of those who are born in the Realm countries\u2014in the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau\u2014is that if they come to New Zealand and work for 10 years, they then become entitled to New Zealand superannuation, and then if they go back to their Realm countries and want to be able to secure that New Zealand superannuation, they must, after the age of 50, come back to New Zealand and work here or live here for another five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EEssentially, what this bill does is it takes away the requirement for them to be in New Zealand for those five years. They are required to be in one of the Realm countries\u2014it could be any of the Realm countries or it could be a mixture of the Realm countries\u2014for five years before they are entitled to New Zealand superannuation at the age of 65. And what this does is it ensures that they are all on the same playing field. They have the same rights to the superannuation that they\u2019ve worked for. And I think it\u2019s important to note that these people have come to New Zealand for a variety of reasons, often to work, to raise money that they can send home to support their families and to support those back in their Realm country where they come from, to be able to send remittances home, and to be able to make a contribution for a variety of reasons. They come here to gain skills, they come here for education, they come here to contribute to New Zealand, and then they have the opportunity, under this legislation, to go home without being required to then come back to New Zealand and contribute or be here for any longer period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd the important point that that makes is it means that those who do come here and do make that contribution to our country then have that opportunity to be able to retire back to one of the Realm countries, to be able to then continue that contribution back in their own country without having that disruption which is currently required by law part-way through their life or as they are planning their retirement\u2014that requirement to come back to New Zealand, to be back in New Zealand society for five years. And often what we see is those people will stay in New Zealand rather than then return back as their intention might have been. Their family might be here, their employment might be here, their foundations for their life are further built here in New Zealand, which takes away the incentive to go back to Niue or back to the Cook Islands or back to Tokelau to retire there and be able to contribute back into the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo what we see, then, are fewer people doing that and the populations of those countries continuing to decline. And what that means for their future, for their economic well-being, as countries in their own right, is it becomes more and more challenging as they seek to build their own prosperity and to build their own future as a country in this world. And so what the hope and the aspiration of this piece of legislation is is that this will encourage and incentivise these people to be able to go back to their country at an earlier age, to be able to build their lives, to be able to then retire in those countries, accessing the New Zealand superannuation which they have worked for, which they have contributed in New Zealand to, and which they are entitled to. And I think, as the point has been made, not only is it superannuation but it is the veterans support allowance as well. I think that\u2019s a vitally important part of this legislation, because we do have to acknowledge those who serve in our defence forces and serve for our country, and if they serve in New Zealand, that also entitles them to be able to do the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt did disappoint me to see the Minister of Defence spend his seven or eight minutes in the House trying to score political points rather than trying to talk about the important facts that this bill does in actually allowing those who have served in the Defence Force to be able to go back to the islands. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a91519b08948d58e3f11af5f2965c6\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they\u2019ve woken up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af85cd9cc6d8413dac1838b91552c837\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And yes, I think it\u2019s an important point that Mr Penk just made. They have just woken up across on the other side of the House. It happens once or twice a day but we enjoy it when it does happen, because there\u2019s really not a lot of spark on the other side of the House these days. I mean, it is Guy Fawkes at the moment, but just not much spark on that side of the House, which is a little bit unfortunate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c5051ef6b3d40a99af9cc2b070bedd7\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: That fella from New Zealand First\u2014I can\u2019t remember his name\u2014he\u2019s pretty sparky.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5491474d5b40d9ade08be8f6deec7c\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I can\u2019t remember his name, either, and I don\u2019t want to remember their names. There are so many other, more important things to remember around this place, David Bennett, rather than remembering the names of people in the New Zealand First Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I think this bill does an incredible job in trying to build that relationship to solidify our place in the world, supporting our Realm countries and ensuring that we aren\u2019t continuing to allow the depopulation of these countries. We are sending a message that we want to support them economically. We want to ensure that those who come to New Zealand have a pathway back to their Realm country to be able to continue to live there, to support their families there, to be able to contribute to the economy of those Realm countries, and to ensure that we, as New Zealand, are able to play our part in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to, in conclusion, acknowledge a few important people. I\u2019d like to acknowledge Sir Bill English, who started the process, and who, as the Prime Minister at the time, travelled to the Cook Islands and Tokelau and Niue and made this commitment. I\u2019d like to acknowledge all members of this House, who are all voting for this bill. And I think it\u2019s important to note, despite the interjections from the other side of the House by someone who used to be a member of the National Party\u2014a branch chair of the National Party, I actually understand; he was quite an important office holder in the National Party. I think, from the interjections that he\u2019s making, he\u2019s obviously quite disappointed and he\u2019s still going through the grieving phase of leaving. But, you know, he\u2019ll get over that, but he\u2019s not welcome back; so that\u2019s OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9f61ffdc2b9493e909120853112b723\u0022\u003EHon Christopher Finlayson\u003C/span\u003E: He wasn\u2019t good enough to get pre-selected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2068bb00af4d3c9579a81f11548e3f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He wasn\u2019t good enough to get pre-selected, which Chris Finlayson said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229aef6ecc9b14362932fffcb5ccf1843\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Come to the bill. Come to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff406d2373bb4860b1ba3bb7b8cec6e2\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: But the point I was trying to make, Madam Deputy Speaker, before I got interjected on rudely by the other side, was that this bill is being passed unanimously in the House. And, I think, when we do come together as a House to make a change to our law and we do it in a unanimous way, that\u2019s something that should be celebrated. And I think that too often people look at this debating chamber and they listen to the interjections and they hear the comments that have just been made, but what is true is that so many times Parliament does come together in a unified way to pass legislation not only for the good of New Zealand but for the good of our Realm, to make a real, positive difference. This bill is one such bill. I commend it to the House. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022f49034d8006549119a99eba2c408c7b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f49034d8006549119a99eba2c408c7b4\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is with a sense of privilege and joy that I rise to offer the Green Party\u2019s support for the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. This is a piece of legislation that is long, long overdue, and it\u2019s really nice to be able to stand in support of it in the House this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think I feel compelled to keep on drawing out my speech; it\u2019s actually quite a simple piece of legislation. What it does is it enables New Zealanders who have spent 10 years here, after the age of 20, to spend their last five qualifying years before they can get access to superannuation or the veterans pension in any of the Realm countries\u2014so that\u2019s the Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau, or New Zealand. So it\u2019s just building in that consistency and making sure that we\u2019re treating all our citizens fairly and consistently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is something that\u2019s been called for by the leaders and the people of those nation States, who are really struggling to bring people back to be able to keep their countries thriving. These are beautiful, amazing countries and communities who are very small. The populations of\u2014I think Niue is around 1,600 people, Tokelau around 1,300, and the Cook Islands is only around 17,500 people as a population. So when you think about those numbers and the tasks involved in running an economy and looking after families and, indeed, the Governments in those countries, you can see how important it is that we support them in bringing their people home. So this is a really important and simple measure on that basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI do just want to congratulate the Government for making this a priority. This was announced by the Prime Minister on the Pacific tour in February or March this year, which makes this one of the really early acts of this Government, and it sends a very clear message, I hope, to people in the Pacific that we are listening, we have been listening for years, and we are prioritising this work because it deserves to be prioritised. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002284e226f1c3c343a499c6cdda3631974f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284e226f1c3c343a499c6cdda3631974f\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Along with my colleagues all around the House tonight, I stand in support of the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill in its third and final reading. I believe that it\u2019s a privilege for me to be speaking to this third reading in appreciation of the years of discussion and consideration that this concept has had around the portability of New Zealand superannuation and the veterans pension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge the early work of the former National-led Government and the support that was given to the background of this bill by our former Prime Minister Sir Bill English when he made his announcement in the Pacific in June of last year, and that was well articulated this evening by the contribution of the Hon Alfred Ngaro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAt this time, I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the work of the Social Services and Community Committee. Generally, this is a very good working group of people. It\u2019s very well led by Gareth Hughes, very conciliatory chairman that he is. He has guided us through some fairly tricky pieces of work through that select committee\u2014this one not so tricky, but I do acknowledge the work and the contribution of all of those members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, I would imagine that some people who are watching this debate tonight may be wondering why we are granting this portability of pensions to the people from the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau. The reason is quite simple: it\u2019s because those people are also New Zealand citizens, and so we do have a constitutional responsibility for all of our citizens in the islands and here in New Zealand, including those in the Pacific countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, the main change that this bill addresses is the requirement for residency. Currently, anyone from the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau must reside in New Zealand for 10 years after they reach the age of 20, and then after 50 they must also have been resident for five years in New Zealand. Now, the rationale, I imagine, for that requirement was so that they had made a contribution to New Zealand and that they also had a legitimate connection to this country. So the residents of any one of those islands who may have spent time here in New Zealand, perhaps to further their education or training, who had accumulated 10 years of residency here after the age of 20 could go back to the Islands and take their skills with them and support their homeland to prosper and to make a contribution to the economic viability of the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut one of the challenges of the requirement of five years after 50 was the risk of the depopulation of those islands, and we heard that from some of the submitters who came to speak to the select committee. Having to come back to New Zealand for those five years after 50 was meaning that they were also bringing their skills and their training away from the Islands. Simply coming back to New Zealand for that provision, to qualify for the five over 50, was simply to qualify for superannuation, and so it disrupted the residency that they had in those islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThis bill will mean that those people who are eligible for New Zealand superannuation or the veterans pension can now remain in those islands and contribute to their local economy without having to return to New Zealand simply to qualify for New Zealand super or a veterans pension. So it does help to mitigate the risks of depopulation in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau by allowing the rule of spending five years after 50 to be spent in any of those islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThis was a real challenge to the Islands in the past, because there was a deterrent to having skilled people returning to and contributing to the Islands after they had been here for those five years after 50. I have to say that, you know, from my own experience, once you get to that age and you settle somewhere it\u2019s very difficult to uplift yourself from family, etc. So this is a very common-sense and convenient way of ensuring that we support, in an ongoing way, the population to be maintained in those islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIt is a real issue, because back in 1960 in Niue, the population there was around 5,000 people, but by 2006 the population had dropped to a little over 1,600, while the New Zealand census recorded at the same time that the number of people who associated or claimed to be from Niue was nearly 24,000, and 79 percent of those were actually born here in New Zealand. So there was a real issue with depopulation, and I believe that this bill will go a long way to mitigating that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere were concerns that we\u2019ve spoken about and that were raised during the submission period about whether this bill actually did comply with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. That was really strongly argued by one of those submitters, who had actually taken a case to the Human Rights Review Tribunal. But the advice that the select committee received was that this bill does appear to be consistent with New Zealand rights and freedoms, and so, as a result, we made no changes to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EOne suggestion that another submitter had was that all of the Pacific Islands would be included in this five over 50 requirement, and that that could be spent in any of the Pacific Islands. Unfortunately, it was beyond the scope of the bill at the time, but I thought it was an ambitious suggestion to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EOne other submitter also pointed out to us about the growing fiscal risk from immigration to New Zealand in later life. I have to say, I did have some sympathy for the submitter, because if we\u2019re going, as it were, to have to spend five years after the age of 50 back here in New Zealand, what we were doing was encouraging people to come back later in life. As we know, the risk of health issues and more dependence on the health system accelerates as we age, and so this requirement to come here after 50 for five years was also bringing in some significant fiscal risk. So I think that in terms of mitigating that, this bill actually does address that issue as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAs I said in my second reading speech on this bill, I actually thought that we may have delayed the final reading of this bill, given that Mark Patterson from New Zealand First has actually had his member\u2019s bill drawn from the ballot, and it is in conflict with this bill that we are debating here for the last time tonight. Now, Mark Patterson\u2019s bill, which is named the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Fair Residency) Amendment Bill\u2014what that bill actually suggests is that the residency requirement be extended to 20 years after the age of 20. That bill is going to be debated in this House before too much longer, and it\u2019s going to be in conflict with the bill that we have already been debating here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThis bill is unchanged from the original. Even though we did have great contributions from our submitters, we have not made any changes to the bill. It was so well-written in the first place, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc33e4ec73b24366ae2a16a50d39dd15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc33e4ec73b24366ae2a16a50d39dd15\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana katoatoa. Fakalofa lahi atu. Malo ni. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It is an absolute privilege to stand here tonight to contribute to the third reading of the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill. It would be remiss of me not to respond to the last speaker, Maureen Pugh, where she acknowledged the dinosaurs who are no longer in this House and who took their time to make a decision on this very important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the leadership of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni on the journey of this very important bill, as part of this coalition Government\u2019s Pacific reset. Why do I say that? Why do I acknowledge the leadership of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni? Well, her leadership in navigating this bill in terms of courage\u2014courage to do the honourable thing. If we say that people in the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau share New Zealand citizenship, then why shouldn\u2019t every New Zealand citizen that qualifies receive this very important opportunity where, in doing so, it seeks to provide greater pension flexibility for people who wish to retire in any of those islands\u2014the Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau, or New Zealand for that matter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo this is not just for the citizens of Tokelau, Niue, or the Cook Islands; this is also for the citizens of New Zealand. On that, on behalf of all the citizens, I want to thank the leadership of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and the member the Hon Carmel Sepuloni. In the languages, I would like to say whakawhetai koe, which is in Te Reo; Fakaaue, fakaaue lahi koe, which is Niuean. Fakafetai is thank you in Tokelauan; and meitaki maata in Cook Islands Maori. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5c9f85adcf54a63851627dbb818892e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5c9f85adcf54a63851627dbb818892e\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I stand to take a short call on the Social Assistance (Residency Qualification) Legislation Bill at this third reading. Like my colleagues on this side of the House, yes, we do support this bill. It has been a long time coming, and I admit that, but I think the work that Sir Bill English did while he did his tours last year to the Cook Islands was the setting of this particular bill, and it was some of the hard work that went in behind it. It\u2019s all very well having a bill come, but it needs a whole lot of work done behind the scenes, and this is what this side of the House did pre-election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is \u201Cto alter the residential qualifications for New Zealand superannuation and the veteran\u2019s pension\u201D\u2014as mentioned before\u2014\u201Cto allow the requirement that a person also have 5 years\u2019 residence and presence in New Zealand over the age of 50 years to be met instead with residence and presence in New Zealand, the Cook Islands, Niue, [and] Tokelau, or any combination of those countries\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI think this is a very good bill in that it recognises our relationship with those Pacific nations, with our Pacific brothers and sisters from the Cooks, Tokelau, and Niue. It also recognises that, yes, they are also taxpayers of our system as well, and that they too should also have access to our New Zealand superannuation. I guess what I\u2019m saying here is that even though there are the time frames of 10 years\u2019 residency over the age of 20 years of age to be able to move back to the Cooks or Niue or Tokelau, spending five years post 50 years in those particular countries and Islands will qualify them for New Zealand superannuation or the veterans pension. It actually shows the relationship and the closeness of that relationship between New Zealand and those Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EVery quickly, I just want to talk a little bit about the couple of options that were considered by the Social Services and Community Committee, who did a very good job on this. It was option one, where \u201CApplicants who move or return to the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau after \u2026 10 years residence in New Zealand can be eligible for [New Zealand super] after completing five years\u201D\u2014as I\u2019ve said\u2014\u201Cover \u2026 50,\u201D. Option two, though, which was never considered for many reasons, was that \u201CApplicants would need 10 years residence in New Zealand over the age of 20, if applying from the Cook Islands, Niue, or Tokelau.\u201D There are some slight differences around that: \u201CIn this instance the \u2018five years over 50\u2019 rule would not apply to residents in the Cook Islands, Niue and Tokelau, and 10 years in New Zealand would be all that is required.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo when we start looking at the two options, it was obvious that option one was going to be considered the best option. It was fair, it was affordable, and it reflected the contribution of people, which I talked about just before, who have connections to New Zealand and the Cook Islands and Niue and Tokelau. The core residence rule of New Zealand superannuation would not be compromised. These were some of the tests that actually chose option one. Option one would also address the problem by making it easier for people to receive New Zealand superannuation in the Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAs some of my colleagues over here have also said, a person who has accumulated 10 years\u2019 residence in New Zealand after the age of 20 years would be able to live in the Cooks, in Niue, or in Tokelau, and would be able to use the residence after the age of 50 in those particular Islands to allow them to also qualify for New Zealand super, thereby mitigating the depopulation of those Islands that they were suffering through the previous rules. So once this bill reaches its Royal assent, then these rules will start to set in, and the families or the members that will qualify for superannuation or the veterans pension will be able to stay in those Islands, thereby mitigating depopulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo I too on this side of the House support the bill. I think that it\u2019s good that the member the Hon Carmel Sepuloni has been able to pick it up and carry it through and that the Social Services and Community Committee have been able to shepherd this right through to this stage. So it is my pleasure to say once again to you that I wholeheartedly support this bill and commend it to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022856beeb4ca3e47e4a581b902430ffc40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022856beeb4ca3e47e4a581b902430ffc40\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s always good when you have a bill that everyone in the House supports\u2014and I\u2019m sure that those at home are thinking that, as well\u2014especially one that is seriously recognising the importance of those constitutional relationships between New Zealand and Niue, the Cook Islands, and Tokelau. This feels to me as if it is a real recognition of those constitutional relationships. It is also a genuine recognition that depopulation and its social and economic impacts are a real issue for those nations as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe only other point\u2014I can\u2019t really add to all of the good words that have been said on this bill tonight, but I do want to just point out that those changes that were made in 2015 to the special portability arrangement were really important. I acknowledge the work that was done by the previous Government on that, but the take-up of that wasn\u2019t as high as expected, and that\u2019s why this change is so important. It is important because it allows people over the age of 50 to remain in the Islands when they need to in order to be entitled to those social supports, and that\u2019s the bottom line. So it feels as if we\u2019re doing the right thing in the House tonight, and it\u2019s going to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the work by the previous Government. I acknowledge absolutely the work by my colleague the Hon Carmel Sepuloni and also the very strong commitment by this Government through the leadership of the Deputy Prime Minister to the Pacific reset, and this is a manifestation of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3f36b57380643778deb4b718a812828\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3f36b57380643778deb4b718a812828\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I don\u2019t mind queue-jumping. It\u2019s a delight for me to take a call on this bill. I want to begin by acknowledging the Rt Hon Winston Peters for his Pacific reset. It was an excellent move and it has got huge support amongst the Pacific nations that we are so close to in so many ways. I want to acknowledge the leadership of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni and the work that she has done to bring this bill to the House, and it\u2019s so rewarding to see the across-the-board support that the legislation has gained, primarily due to the hard work that she\u2019s put into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn this Parliament, when we were all sworn in, I think we had seven languages used, which is a bit of a tribute to the increased diversity of this House. But I want to particularly acknowledge Poto Williams and the Hon Alfred Ngaro for their Cook Island connection. They\u2019re both very proud Cook Islanders and they demonstrate that frequently in this House. Without wanting to bring family members in, I can do so because the Hon Alfred Ngaro did acknowledge his wife is Niuean, so I want to recognise that connection as well. We have our Tokelauan brother, the Hon Kris Faafoi, and the Hon Carmel Sepuloni also has a family connection to Niue. So this bill has personal relevance and, I guess, is more passionate as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESo with the Pacific\u2019s triple star, the Realm nations of the Cooks, Tokelau, and Niue, the change that we are introducing in this legislation will, I\u2019m sure, be very welcomed by them. It has been a long time coming. For those people that will now be able to live in any of the Realm nations or New Zealand after they turn 50, this will be warmly welcomed. So I don\u2019t want to delay its passing. I commend its progress to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223674fc68730c49a19bbcfa982f3e847b\u0022\u003EFamily Violence Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223674fc68730c49a19bbcfa982f3e847b\u0022\u003EFamily Violence (Amendments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022582d5ee8143144e9abb0a0eed0226f88\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000633\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 1 November.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32f32cc6af24c4bbbc5be10d6f25fd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32f32cc6af24c4bbbc5be10d6f25fd8\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is indeed a privilege to rise and speak in support of the family and wh\u0101nau violence legislation at its third reading. This is legislation that significantly amends the Domestic Violence Act 1995, and it is actually a piece of legislation that is incredibly needed. In 2016, there were about 118,000 incidents involving family violence that police responded to, and yet we know that about 76 percent of family violence incidents are not reported to police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EOur statistics in New Zealand are horrific. Between 2009 and 2015, 194 New Zealanders were killed as a result of family violence. Our family violence homicide rate per capita is two times that of Australia, Canada, or the UK\u2014the countries that we commonly compare ourselves to. Children are present at two-thirds of all family violence incidents that are attended to by police. Children who experience\u2014and we know this from the research that\u2019s been done\u2014family violence are two times as likely to be victims of sexual violence, four times more likely to commit sexual violence against a partner, and three times more likely to attempt suicide, and 57 percent leave school without a qualification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, what this legislation does is provide a framework to support the cross-Government response to family violence that is so needed\u2014that is something that this sector has been crying out for. There are quite a few bits of this piece of legislation that I would like to draw the attention of this House to, but I want to focus on two, because I think the thing that most excites me about this piece of legislation is the fact that it recognises that one size doesn\u2019t fit all\u2014that domestic violence manifests differently in different communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThere are two points specifically that I want to make and to draw our attention to. This piece of legislation makes forced marriage an offence, and it also amends the definition of family violence to explicitly include dowry-related violence. Now, dowry is actually a practice that has changed over time. It started out as a sum of money, typically, or assets, that were passed to a bride. It was meant to keep her safe. It was meant to keep her financially independent, but that changed over time to become a sort of \u201Cbride price\u201D, and it is a practice that happens here in New Zealand as well, but one that many haven\u2019t heard of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis is a sensitive topic to many of our ethnic communities, and for good reason too, in a sense, because for many years, historically, our communities haven\u2019t talked about family violence because there is a huge amount of fear that the entire community would be tarred with the same brush. But of course we know that not all families practise this, and yet there are some that do, and there must be remedies for those who are victims of this form of family violence. It\u2019s no longer a cultural practice. It was outlawed in countries like India back in the 1960s. So it is a form of family violence, and we need to speak about it in a way that is sensitive, because if we don\u2019t\u2014and if we get the backlash that I often do when I talk about these issues on social media, which is to say \u201CLet\u2019s keep migrants out.\u201D\u2014then that is unfair, it\u2019s an inaccurate portrayal of what happens within these communities, and it\u2019s dangerous to the women who are seeking to end those forms of violence as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EViolence exists everywhere. Many of the tools of power and control are the same, but some differ, and we must have this conversation in a way that recognises the issues that are specific to some communities so that we can address them and keep people safe without marginalising communities that often already feel like second-class citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to thank everyone\u2014the former Minister of Justice, the Hon Amy Adams; the current Minister of Justice, the Hon Andrew Little; and the Parliamentary Under-Secretary to the Minister of Justice, Jan Logie; submitters; officials; those who have advocated over decades; and the Justice and Electoral Committee that addressed this legislation\u2014for the work they\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAs we stand here today and celebrate the festival of Diwali, which celebrates the triumph of light over darkness, knowledge over ignorance, strength over weakness, and good over evil, I am proud to support this legislation, which will go a long way to dispel the darkness that is family violence. I commend this legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220b5b8258b8c140e78cf55fa2c74d0557\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b5b8258b8c140e78cf55fa2c74d0557\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Just following on from that last speaker, Priyanca Radhakrishnan, there will be support across the House for this bill. It is something that all New Zealanders and all politicians take very seriously. For those that have constituents that have suffered from family violence, it is something that when, as politicians, we have the ability to assist those families in those communities, and especially the children involved, it will be something that makes a big difference to our communities and something that all members of this Parliament, I\u2019m sure, will be in support of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that has its genesis in the previous Government. A lot of work had been done at that time and has been followed on in the current Government. There have been some changes to this bill made by the current Government. Some of those changes National supports and some of them we don\u2019t necessarily think are an addition to the bill, but they are part of what the Government has put forward for this legislation and will be debated in their entirety as part of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESome of those changes that we have seen coming through relate to the duration of public safety orders from five days to 10 days. The current maximum length was five days and now is going to go to 10 days under the bill. That\u2019s something that National will be able to support and live with. It\u2019s not something that was in the original concept of the bill, but it is a change that has been made and, in the end, is something that will be supported through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere was another change in the patterns of behaviour to clarify what may be seen as cumulative in those behaviours, and that is something that will, of course, be supported as we look at those cumulative actions rather than just one-off actions that an individual may engage in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere are other principles relating to patterns of behaviour, clarifying that family violence often includes coercive or controlling behaviour. Again, that\u2019s another change that, in essence, is something that all members of this House will agree with as something that will assist in how we apply this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe had another change in regard to dowry-related violence in the definition of family violence. The last speaker spoke passionately about that from her connection with the Indian community. And we take on board the comments made. That is something that I think members of this House will want to see: that that cultural awareness is there in the legislation to make sure there is that protection in all our communities throughout New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another change in regard to carers and the recipients of care. That\u2019s something that hadn\u2019t actually been promoted in the original bill, and it\u2019s something that has been added to it. It does take the bill to another level, in the sense that it includes a wider group of people in that relationship issue. We understand the reasons the Government may have sought to do that; however, it is one of those areas of a point of difference between the parties as to whether that extension is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EAnother one where there is a point of difference is requiring family violence assessors and provider to take into account a victim\u2019s views\u2014that\u2019s safe and appropriate; we do support that\u2014but the amendment of the title of the bill is something where there is a bit of a point of difference between the parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo this is to repeal and replace the Domestic Violence Act with a more modern, accessible Act, which is definitely needed. But it also amends the jurisdiction in which police safety order breaches are heard: from the civil court the criminal court. And that\u2019s another issue where we did have a point of difference, the civil court being the appropriate court to hear this, and that was what submissions and the intention of the bill originally was. But the current Government has moved that to the criminal court as the mechanism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another change or two in regard to the Minister of Justice being able to issue codes of practice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228679b07598534eb99033396d3462ff8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228679b07598534eb99033396d3462ff8e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffc09053bae44ad899d5b5b4432d972f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffc09053bae44ad899d5b5b4432d972f\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t believe the member\u2019s time has expired. We got off to a false start because at the very start of this, when you reintroduced the bill, you should have announced that Raymond Huo had eight and a half minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcf8ca8b53dc4d5686abe8b7c56f86fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcf8ca8b53dc4d5686abe8b7c56f86fb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. It\u2019s not been the practice in the last year where members who are absent are called. Chairs or I, certainly, have always looked to see if the member\u2019s absent. I haven\u2019t drawn attention to the absence of a member. When the bill was being called, the next person just takes a call. If the member really wants to have another five minutes, I\u2019m prepared to seek the leave of the House for that to happen. But I will remind members to stay alert to the fact that they should take the call. I seek the leave for David Bennett to have another five minutes. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baea2f5fee4c4446afe5c3f27608832d\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb53c0e083d44448a62da3c9cc44138a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There is none. David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df79a77d7b845e19c70601df6353544\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, there was objection from Michael Wood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8fd82bc4e1e44d9bcc13cdcd618e664\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, there wasn\u2019t. I think it was just\u2014[Interruption] Order! Order! Did a member object?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f0e800a501d45e9b7ceb572b1e5436e\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did object, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00223554323caded4477816d808165a7b077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223554323caded4477816d808165a7b077\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, you may well be correct in your understanding of the practice of this House but I can tell you that the other presiding officers have continued the practice of announcing that there is some time to go and then checking whether the member wanted to continue the call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI would also further add that a change of that nature is usually set out in some kind of announcement or amendment to Speakers\u2019 rulings. I\u2019m not sure that the House has actually seen that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224ba0f9aabc7c40788197e6aea7472903\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ba0f9aabc7c40788197e6aea7472903\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I certainly haven\u2019t announced that. I just work on the basis that a member who isn\u2019t here can\u2019t take the call. It\u2019s relatively simple. Unless it\u2019s a Minister who is in charge of a bill, and that is a different situation because the Minister\u2019s time, of course, can be picked up by another Minister. Now, and I know it\u2019s an unusual practice and it\u2019s irregular, I\u2019m going to look at Michael Wood and I\u2019m going to put the question again and seek leave for David Bennett to have a further five minutes. Is there any objection? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364ee2fb5ca14e6682273e02023f627f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Go, Michael.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f0d6053a294d1b8e914c0e3adf4793\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Where did that come from? I call David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd76c48d3b15413ca2f9184c041107fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd76c48d3b15413ca2f9184c041107fc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I find myself in a very unusual position in this House of thanking the Speaker. Maybe it\u2019s because of the bipartisan nature of this bill that parties come together, and even the greatest enemies can come together and share a moment of hilarity. But it won\u2019t last\u2014I\u2019m sure of that. But thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014back to normal tomorrow at question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eba6937b51f4c748dfeff2071d44945\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just speak to the bill now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b68e567ee33a4bf383292a0f491f80cb\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: This is torture\u2014I wish I had objected!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de09719cabdb41b8baa62c82b2462f00\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. But I was nearly finished, Mr Wood. I was on the last point, so I won\u2019t take too much longer. Your objection wasn\u2019t really needed; it would\u2019ve been a short resumption of the call anyway. I had been aware it was a 10-minute call, so that\u2019s why my guidance as to the timing wasn\u2019t so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen we come to the Minister of Justice\u2014this is the last change\u2014having the ability to issue codes of practice relating to service delivery, that\u2019s something that on this side of the House we didn\u2019t think was, ultimately, necessary as part of the review of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut, in essence, I think there will be a lot of people in this House and in the communities that we serve that want to see change in this area. It is something that creates so much harm in our community. It can lead to so many lives being lost, in the sense of opportunity and chances for people to succeed and actually become the best they can, through family violence. So I think anything we can do that is jointly supported through this House is a good move and a good sign to New Zealanders that we take this issue very seriously and wish to have the best solutions for our communities that we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo, once again, thank you, Mr Speaker. We will resume our normal code of practice tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00226c365ddf02f648bbbf7202ad036750ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c365ddf02f648bbbf7202ad036750ba\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the family violence legislation. In order to look at the issue of family violence\u2014but before I say that, maybe I should comment on the fact that it\u2019s really heartening to see agreement across the House on these bills, because these are incredibly important pieces of legislation for New Zealand\u2019s future. This Government has been loud and clear in its commitment to making New Zealand the best place in the world to be a child\u2014and how important it is in a child\u2019s life to grow up free from violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EProbably the most damaging thing that we can see in our homes is that not only are children exposed to violence and abuse in our homes but they\u2019re also witnessing it. And as a former employee for the New Zealand Police, the number of accounts of times when children hadn\u2019t been direct victims of family violence but they had witnessed family violence on an ongoing basis\u2014and these are the sorts of things that create a next generation where there are issues that are really difficult to get to the bottom of and to address and to enable everyone in New Zealand to do the best they possibly can. So to have legislation that really goes to the heart of who we are as New Zealanders to try and give our kids the best possible start in life\u2014it\u2019s great to see strong support from both sides of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the important things that this bill does is it really focuses on early intervention, and that\u2019s what is probably the best way of getting to the heart of giving kids the best start. It\u2019s early intervention that enables police, other services, NGOs to get in right at that early stage to prevent ongoing instances happening. And so what we had in the past was a PSO, the police safety order, which enabled a member of the police to come at a point in time that was heated, to ask the person who was, typically, the one accused of offending to vacate premises for 24 hours, 48 hours, for a period to cool off. Typically, that is a male in the household, and what has been happening in the past, from front-line experience that I\u2019ve heard, is that typically that person goes down to the pub and they drink further and they cause further issues that the police then pick them up again for. So the underlying causes of that family violence aren\u2019t being addressed by simply telling someone to leave their home\u2014in fact, it can even make them more angry or not address underlying addiction, anger, or other mental health issues that might be contributing to that family violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it actually goes further and it requires police to order the offender to undergo a risk and needs assessment right at that first instance to see what else can be wrapped around that person to give them the most support possible for that family to start healing and to be working together in a better way than they have. And it also enables the victim at that point in time to go through a risk and needs assessment. So I think that\u2019s a huge improvement from the current situation. It enables NGOs and other services to be able to provide that sort of assessment that can look at why the offending is happening in the first place, to try and stop that from being a repeat issue, and to stop children from repeatedly being exposed to family violence instances within their own homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe other key area that I\u2019d like to speak about is the definition of family violence. Now, this has been one that has perplexed people for a long time, in terms of officials and different agencies: how we actually look at what family violence means and defining it. It includes coercive and controlling behaviour\u2014so not straight out violence but looking at the behaviour of offenders to see what classifies as that. It\u2019s really important to recognise that people can be controlled through the restriction of finance, of food, of love, of conversation, and controlled through hurtful words. Those are all very much controlling and harmful behaviours that are working at the same time as violent acts, and it is important that these pieces of legislation acknowledge that there is more to family violence than just straight out violent action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to show that we are recording the statistics of family violence in a really clear way. So having those definitions enables the Government to better record what\u2019s happening in New Zealand homes. And some recent research that\u2019s been publicised by the Women\u2019s Refuge has shown the extent of how depression and high rates of self-harm and even suicide are very much prevalent in those people who are victims of ongoing family violence. So in order to make sure that we are on top of it, as the Government understands what\u2019s happening in people\u2019s homes, it\u2019s really important we record those statistics accurately to know where things are happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EJust as an interesting point, it was only when on the first family violence form that was filled out by police when this was happening, like eight or nine years ago now\u2014for the first time people were asked about strangulation and it was very surprising how much that was happening. Previously, we did not know how much strangulation as a violent act was happening within family violence occurrences. And so there is a new offence created that takes that even further, a new offence of non-fatal strangulation, and the evidence shows that it is a common tool of abusive and coercive behaviour. So adding that to the offences within this legislation assists police and other agencies to accurately respond to instances and to hold offenders accountable. But it is more important to say that it\u2019s great to see that we\u2019re having a coordinated response\u2014that NGOs, that police, and that all agencies are working collaboratively together to make sure we do the best possible job to reduce all instances of family violence in New Zealand, and I\u2019m proud to see that this bill goes again. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229cf3da8839c74697880b828a443af5b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cf3da8839c74697880b828a443af5b8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, our adjustments earlier have, I think, probably resulted in two National Party members thinking that they\u2019ve still got the call. And I want to indicate that I will call both of them before\u2014[Interruption] No, we\u2019re not taking that approach. I will call both of them\u2014full calls\u2014in a row before we revert back to the last speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0979190a9c4db080c7a6074900fe44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0979190a9c4db080c7a6074900fe44\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, good evening, sir, and to members of the House. I\u2019d considered that this was going to be a brief call, but if I am permitted some extra time, I\u2019d certainly be indulged. So having dedicated a good part, or a significant part, of my professional working life as a lawyer to helping others in this space\u2014children, youth, women, men, families, communities, victims, the afflicted, and perpetrators of violence\u2014it is somewhat poignant that I do have the ability to be able to address the House this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo, Mr Speaker and members, what started out at the first and second readings as the Family and Wh\u0101nau Violence Legislation Amendment Bill has since been changed through the committee of the whole House, as everybody is well aware, and been divided into two pieces of proposed legislation, or bills. So we have the Family Violence Bill, which is an overhaul of the Domestic Violence Act 1995, and then we also have a Family Violence (Amendments) Bill. That\u2019s an omnibus bill of amendments to the Bail Act, the Care of Children Act, the Crimes Act, the Criminal Procedure Act, the Evidence Act, and the Sentencing Act\u2014all pieces of legislation that I\u2019ve represented clients under. National supports these bills, as is well known, this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo this third reading is a debate and a speech summarising the bill. However, with the indulgence of the Speaker this evening, and prior to commending the passage of the bill into law, I reflect back to a passage in time 23 years ago, one year before the introduction of the Domestic Violence Act. It was a time when the New Zealand public\u2014our consciousness was confronted and challenged by an epic New Zealand movie, exposing a brutal and raw face of violence in New Zealand society. A number of us may remember Once Were Warriors. It exposed to a sanitised New Zealand mainstream the raw and repugnant, vicious brutality of violence in Aotearoa New Zealand, in our landscape and in our \u201Cfamilyscape\u201D, and this is the scape that I\u2019ve committed and dedicated my professional working life to. So this movie, many people deemed to be a fiction. However, it was so real and so raw for many families in Aotearoa, and perhaps for some of us as members of Parliament who have experienced that, if not directly, indirectly through our family lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI now turn to the bills. So, as was stated, the Family Violence Bill is an overhaul of the Domestic Violence Act. Twenty-three years, that has been in the making. So the key messages that come about are that the reforms contained in the bill strengthen family violence laws for a better understanding and response, and that response is about earlier and more effective intervention, better services to reduce and prevent future violence, and keeping victims safe. Undoubtedly, family violence has a devastating impact on our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, the changes in the bill are about making it easier for victims to apply for protection orders. Over the decades, I represented many women and, at times, men\u2014but seldom\u2014applying for protection orders, and sometimes children, as counsel for the child. The bill is also about clarifying that the protected person can consent to contact with the respondent or the perpetrator of the violence, whilst supporting the victims and their children to have ongoing relationships with the perpetrator if they choose. This is something that, again, having advocated and represented children, as well as women\u2014when those orders were made, it would often be a blanket prohibition for children, preventing any form of supervised contact with the perpetrator, and that in itself often victimised a number of child clients or children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAnother element of the bill is about improving the effectiveness of parenting orders to better recognise the risk of violence and protect the victims. Also, I\u2019ve noted within the bill itself that it states there is a purpose and there are also principles. When I glanced at this, the format, the formula, was very similar to what had been outlined in the Care of Children and previously the Children, Young Persons, and their Families Act at a time when I was representing and advocating for clients. So there\u2019s a particular provision under clause 4 of those principles, and paragraph (l) is about increasing the provision of tikanga-based and culturally appropriate services for victims and wh\u0101nau experiencing family violence. This was not an element or a principle previously within the domestic violence legislation. So clause 4, paragraph (l) talks about: \u201Cresponses to family violence should be culturally appropriate and, in particular, responses involving M\u0101ori should reflect tikanga M\u0101ori (M\u0101ori customary values and practices)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EImportantly, also, in the principles under the bill, there is recognition that decision makers should collaborate, and something that I experienced, again in the time when I advocated and practised, was the difficulty in accessing information from respective Government departments that would be of benefit as evidence placed before the court, in terms of a child\u2019s interests and welfare. So, \u201Cdecision makers should collaborate, whenever appropriate, to identify, stop, prevent, and otherwise respond to family violence\u201D. Importantly, clause 4, paragraph (o): \u201Caccess to the court should be as speedy, inexpensive, and simple as is consistent with justice\u201D\u2014such significant principles to change the shape and the face of what previously were our domestic violence laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo may I, just in closing, share with members of this House and our public the simple message that I put out to us all\u2014a simple yet powerful message: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EKaua e patua. [Stop the hitting.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EKaua e mamae.[Stop the hurting.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWith that simple yet poignant message, may I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022c99197f7e38a4a549697b5326de8689d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c99197f7e38a4a549697b5326de8689d\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity also to speak to the Family Violence Bill and the Family Violence (Amendments) Bill. Sir, you\u2019ll be aware, and the House will be aware, that we are, at this particular stage now, as a result of Supplementary Order Papers at the committee stage of this bill, dividing the original legislation into two bills. The fact that that has been necessary is, I think, not just an interesting aspect of parliamentary procedure, but in relation to all the different amendments that are needed to other Acts, that indicates, actually, something significant in itself, which is the breadth of reform that is needed across our legislative framework and, indeed, the challenge to our social framework in all the different ways that we need to consider how the scourge of family violence affects our law and our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll take a minute as well to acknowledge the Minister presiding over this bill, Andrew Little, his colleagues, and also his predecessor in the role of bringing this legislation to the House, the Hon Amy Adams. I also acknowledge and thank those who have contributed to the broader process of discussing what is needed to conclude this item of work\u2014those who have shared knowledge generously. I\u2019m sure that many who have considerable knowledge of family violence wish that that were not so, but nevertheless they are prepared to speak of their experiences and share those with us in the hope that together we can do something to at least allow a framework such that there will be less violence in our society going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI acknowledge speakers in this House who, from lives previous to entering Parliament, have particular knowledge. My colleague Harete Hipango, for example, has spoken of her expertise, and earlier we heard from Priyanca Radhakrishnan with her particular experience and knowledge in the area of dowry violence, among others\u2014those encapsulating the bill, but they have been well covered already by those other speakers, so I don\u2019t propose to do so again in my time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, having referred to the Family Violence (Amendments) Bill that, in turn, amends various other Acts, I\u2019ll just touch briefly on some of those, in particular the Bail Act, the Crimes Act, and the Evidence Act. It is partly within the realm of criminal law that family violence legislation does sit, so it\u2019s appropriate that those are amended to take account of this new framework; however, it\u2019s not only in the criminal sphere, of course, but also the civil sphere and the family sphere as well. The dates of some of those provisions coming into force are different according to different Acts, for reasons that have been well canvassed at previous stages of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAs for the substantive work in the Family Violence Bill, amending and overhauling the Domestic Violence Act, I\u2019d like to focus on a few aspects that seem to me particularly important as we\u2019re at this third and final reading, and hence the concluding stage before this becomes law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOne is to note, just in general terms, that the aim is very much to break the pattern of family violence and reduce the harm and cost inflicted on those who suffer as a result. And one word that seems to me very significant in that is the word \u201Cpattern\u201D, and it\u2019s quite deliberate and meaningful that within the legislation the notion of patterns of violence and not mere individual acts that are significant in themselves is really a key item of understanding whereby the legislators, including ourselves and also those who\u2019ve contributed more broadly to the process, are trying to understand the way to break the cycle. The number of ways that that happened, I will come to if time allows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut, first, let me just mention, at least in passing, the bipartisan nature of the process that we\u2019ve embarked upon. I don\u2019t believe there\u2019s a member in this House who wouldn\u2019t support the general aim of reducing family violence, but it\u2019s pleasing too that we appear agreed on the way in which this can occur here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe reason I think that it\u2019s important is partly symbolic. We\u2019ve got a non-adversarial process for a piece of legislation that\u2019s designed to reduce violence, and that, perhaps, is significant in itself. I think of the phrase that we might be said to be \u201Cgiving peace a chance\u201D. And just as the word \u201Cpeace\u201D can be defined either narrowly, in the sense of being the absence of war, we can also take a more holistic view and talk about serenity in general. And so it is too that the abuse that\u2019s defined within this legislation and prohibited and precluded by this legislation is not just abuse in, perhaps, the traditional understanding of physical violence, but also psychological violence and other forms of violence as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EParticular emphases of the bills that I\u2019d also like to touch on include the emphasis on early interventions\u2014the early stage of the intervention, of course, being very much directed at reducing harm. And that\u2019s important not only in so far as the actual harm itself, whether physical or psychological is concerned, but also recognising the fact that the longer harm is allowed to continue within that environment, the higher the stakes become in the sense that justice, in the traditional way that we say must be seen to be done, really elevates the seriousness, in a way, of offending that is being carried out. So, if you\u2019ll excuse me\u2014resorting to clich\u00E9\u2014prevention is better than cure, and so too a cure of a relatively minor harm must surely be better than reducing further harm if it is allowed to flourish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EPart of that, in terms of what the bills actually state, revolves around police safety orders. These are, obviously, an important mechanism that already exist within our system\u2014the idea that we can take a person out of a violent environment, typically, or inevitably the person causing such violence, whether male or female, and that\u2019s an aspect, again, that my colleague Harete Hipango has touched on. Discussion was had at an early stage about the length of that. On this side of the House, we did express some hesitancy about the fact that the maximum time frame for which a police safety order would apply was being increased from five days to 10 days. That point was acknowledged by the Minister in the chair at the committee stage. He did acknowledge, as I say, the fact that that is a considerable curtailing of a person\u2019s liberty and it\u2019s not a step that is being taken lightly as this bill progresses with that particular change being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EHowever, he did point out\u2014and I think in a way that was ultimately acceptable to this side of the House\u2014that, in balancing the particular harm of family violence with, on the other hand, the curtailing of a person\u2019s freedom in a way that hasn\u2019t been through a full judicial process, was a reasonable balancing act in the way of preventing and reducing the harm that I\u2019ve already mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EPart of the other rationale for the police safety orders, it seems to me, is reducing the fear of violence. And the fear of violence, in the way that psychological abuse is abuse no less than physical abuse is, could be said to be a form of violence in itself. And if it\u2019s true that fear is itself to be feared, if you\u2019ll excuse the nod to Roosevelt, then so too we should fear a situation in which our people in New Zealand are afraid of their loved ones\u2014and I use that term deliberately, understanding that oftentimes, in fact, inevitably, in a family violence situation, the persons concerned are loved ones to each other, or at least should be. And it\u2019s the exceptional nature of family violence and the desire to bring back the norm such that family members would be loved ones to each other and not abusers and abused that we must work so hard to ensure that these provisions will be successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EPlease allow me to finish by noting in particular the comment that I made before, regarding patterns of behaviour and, more particularly, the fact that these bills contain definitions that recognise patterns of behaviour that might appear trivial in isolation but the cumulative effect of which is clearly abuse. And so too acknowledging that coercive or controlling behaviour can be abusive in the way that it subjugates and subjects the person who is being abused and is restricting them from being free in the way that we would expect and hope our children and adults of this country should demand and we should demand on their behalf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, with that, I think I\u2019ve covered enough detail to illustrate the more general points that I\u2019d like to make and that others have made. I commend them for doing so. I commend those who have contributed at earlier stages of the process. I\u2019m very pleased to join others in this House in supporting and, indeed, commending its passage, and I look forward to the day that we will have to spend less time discussing this but, in the meantime, it\u2019s been a very useful exercise and I congratulate all involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8220e6d0f474965b6016c45d9e4c0f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8220e6d0f474965b6016c45d9e4c0f1\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you for this opportunity in concluding the speeches on these particular bills\u2014excellent bills. I want to congratulate the work of Jan Logie and, of course, the Hon Andrew Little for ushering these bills through the House. It is a momentous occasion for this country, when we can actually take these matters very seriously. So I do want to commend these bills to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226964f278f3e54445a9cce54743d3ff88\u0022\u003ETelecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269ad77bc2a8a4b339ad78b8f3e21129c\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00228cef1bd25fd0429c8557b8e36eb551c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cef1bd25fd0429c8557b8e36eb551c2\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill before the House is an outcome of the statutory review of the Telecommunications Act 2001 and many years of policy development and consultation. The passage of the bill has consistently received unanimous support from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECan I begin by acknowledging the education and science and, I think, infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25a258363384e5e80d3744d87b8f8b1\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Economic development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3af3c592da44eddbf83aa252f8ccef8\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Economic development\u2014your committee\u2014for their consideration of the bill. The member\u2019s committee, sorry\u2014the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. Can I also begin by acknowledging the work of the Hon Clare Curran, who held the position that I hold now before and, in essence, did predominantly most of the heavy lifting over the last 12 months. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the work that she did in conjunction with our coalition partners, New Zealand First, in terms of the 111 vulnerable consumers aspect of this bill, the Chorus anchor price, and also for working on the regulatory framework and the additional Commerce Commission funding that was done under her tenure as Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill provides for the modernisation of the Act and improved regulation of the New Zealand telecommunications sector by, in essence, doing six things: first of all, introducing a stable and predictable framework for the regulation of ultra-fast broadband (UFB) or fibre; secondly, removing regulation of copper fixed-line services where consumers have a choice to move to regulated fibre services; third, keeping regulation of copper fixed-line services where no alternatives are available; also, establishing and extending consumer safeguards, and providing more regulatory oversight of the quality of retail services; fifth, streamlining other regulatory processes to enable a rapid response to any competition problems; and, finally, repealing irrelevant and outdated provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe whole environment in which the communications industry operates has changed radically over the past 10 years. By June this year, 70 percent of New Zealanders had access to UFB fibre, and uptake had reached 44 percent. The structural separation of Telecom New Zealand has led to a much more balanced market structure, with a flourishing retail sector. The new regulatory environment responds to these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe wider consumer protections that the bill affords are a particularly important aspect of the bill and warrant further emphasis to the House. The bill establishes a wider role for the Commerce Commission. It will require the commission to monitor retail service quality and allow the commission to develop consumer codes for retail services, and to assess dispute resolution processes in the telecommunications sector. It will also establish a specific Commerce Commission code that requires retail service providers (RSPs) to identify vulnerable consumers, based on criteria specified in the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) introduced in the committee of the whole House stage relating, for example, to health conditions. It will also provide options such as battery backup or alternative emergency calling providers for these consumers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b601e6b27b4b15ba05254dde2583a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. I am going to remind the Minister of the prohibition on reading speeches. This is not a technical matter. It is not a first reading. Members are not allowed to read speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad97a21c7a214a3db14be7c2eec56e20\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance. Also, the third criteria around retail service providers is to meet the expense of providing these options to vulnerable consumers\u2014these things are very technical, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThese are new roles for the Commerce Commission, and the bill augments the regulatory tool kit that the commission has available to it to protect New Zealand consumers. I, for one, am pleased, as the Minister, to report to the House that the Commerce Commission has been allocated a significant amount of funding\u2014$12.3 million, in fact; I\u2019m glad I have that information in front of me\u2014over three financial years to implement the new regulatory framework that will be enabled by the bill, and has started the process of developing the rules that will govern the new regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides new enforcement powers to the commission to ensure that the new codes may be progressed and enforced on a timely basis to meet consumer needs, and that new information disclosure obligations will be complied with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ELast week, during the committee stage of the bill\u2019s reading, I did introduce a Supplementary Order Paper that ensures vulnerable consumers do have protection and the ability to make phone calls. If they are fibre-only consumers, in a power outage they may find themselves without any phone coverage to make a 111 phone call. I would like to acknowledge the member beside me, the Hon Tracey Martin, and New Zealand First for their work in advocating to make sure that those vulnerable consumers do have the ability to make a phone call, as I mentioned earlier, if their fibre is out and they don\u2019t have those services available to them. So they will have a battery backup or, potentially, a mobile phone provided by the RSPs so that if there is an emergency, predominantly around health, they will have the ability to call a 111 service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, I want to thank both the Green and New Zealand First parties, our partners in Government, for ensuring that the most vulnerable consumers in our society have the ability to look after themselves in an emergency when they need them. This demonstrates that this coalition Government is committed to ensuring that the well-being of New Zealanders is at the heart of all we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere have been some concerns expressed about some of the provisions in the SOP that was tabled in the committee stage last week. The nature of the risks has been raised, and I think these need to be clearly understood. I will refer to my notes here, because I want to make sure we put this on the record in plain English: Enable, Ultrafast Broadband, and Northpower, who are three local fibre companies (LFCs) here in the country, face more competition than Chorus, and they face some competition from Chorus as well as players such as Vodafone and other RSPs. Therefore, they will not face price regulation in the first instance, and they may never face such regulation. Instead, they will be subject to information disclosure, a similar regime that operates under Part 4 of the Commerce Act, which our airports are exposed to. We believe in a light-handed form of regulation which requires them to share information about their businesses with the Commerce Commission. They will only be subject to more intrusive regulation if the Commerce Commission advises me that they can exercise a substantial degree of market power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI would like to end my contribution again in the fashion that I started, by thanking the former Minister, the Hon Clare Curran, for a lot of the heavy lifting that was done during this process. As I say, it was a review of the Telecommunications Act 2001. Some work was done by the previous Government, but in our term of Government the heavy lifting was done by the former Minister, and I would like to extend my thanks to her for the way that it was done, especially in and around the anchor price for Chorus. That will give consumers certainty around the price of the anchor service around UFB for years to come\u2014also Chorus some certainty\u2014and I think that is one of the main benefits out of the work that was done in our time of Government, during the shepherding of this piece of legislation through the House. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to it, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022603c3dc763794e2b9a7551e885b920d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022603c3dc763794e2b9a7551e885b920d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Jonathan Young, I will draw the member\u2019s attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 46/6, which I think is a very wise ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7cd8b9039b64b6694a6ae91a971d8df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7cd8b9039b64b6694a6ae91a971d8df\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I say thank you very much for that very spontaneous speech delivered by the Minister, and can I also say thank you for your kind remarks to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, who did work very hard on, actually, quite a complex bill. I\u2019d say it is quite difficult to criticise this Minister, because we are both members of the parliamentary cricket team, and that creates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c53b177b89d64af2b44d703422e3c9dc\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Stop reading your speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a136a778f854151b7a400f50d43a2ef\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! And that creates a collegiality, which I think sometimes is quite healthy for how Governments operate. He gets more runs than I do, and so I always have to hold him in high respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247dc73ca499e42f083844ba6d278632f\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but you fall over more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d20219c274b74eafba229a130a8abb1a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cbed8d67b684a7bbca43cc41179f60a\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a742ac2794d4b209e833cd55e2823c2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been a very long time since I played for the cricket team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429fb59c2dcd44b3a0aeac28837eac4f\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. I missed that remark but I sense I should be offended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720674e8b266450ea3d5b78f7c2f68f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m offended on our behalf. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524a2c1834dd4233829f3c4d67a68b2f\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Right, thank you very much. So anyway, you know, we do support this bill. As the Minister said\u2014and I\u2019ll just acknowledge the Hon Clare Curran for her work\u2014this has been a work programme that has been across parliaments. It\u2019s absolutely critical for New Zealand, going forward, to have state-of-the-art connectivity that\u2019s going to enable us not just to be able to enjoy that connectivity but to have very effective opportunities when it comes to education, when it comes to services that our communities and our Government provide for our communities, and also in the area of commerce\u2014it\u2019s incredibly important to be able to have that connectivity, not just domestically across New Zealand, but across the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s good to see that New Zealand is doing well in this particular area, and that comes through the effort of different parliaments, different Ministers, and different select committees. We all appreciate the fact that we can enjoy these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis past weekend I was visiting a town in the southern part of my electorate called \u014Cpunake. In fact, my wife and I stayed there for the weekend. We had won a prize at a fantastic bach that won New Zealand\u2019s Bookabach national award just recently. So we went down there to enjoy small-town New Zealand, and as we drove into that town, there was a big sign that said \u201CUltra-fast Broadband (UFB) is coming in February 2019\u201D\u2014UFB is coming in 2019. So that\u2019s the relevancy, sir, to say that here we are in small-town Taranaki with 1,000 people\u2014the reach of this technology is going far and wide. That has got to have benefits for our high schools, our primary schools, our doctors, our medical centres, and our farmers who are out there who want to be state-of-the-art operators on our land. All of this is so important, and it\u2019s one of the best things this Parliament has done for New Zealand homes, families, enterprises, schools, and hospitals, to create this connectivity to get information flowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think, just as a brief comparison, where we sit in the world\u2014I think it is interesting to know that we are doing reasonably well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eeb227fe96f47eca6170e2c99c60a4a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I am going to interrupt the member and to remind him we are on the third reading of this bill. It is not the second reading. It\u2019s not a general discussion about UFB. It\u2019s a discussion on this bill\u2014maybe some comment on its progress through the House, but certainly, most of it should be on how the bill has emerged from the select committee. The member\u2019s weekend or what happened in the rest of the world is not in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263f10b407a5d44c9bef696c782062199\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your guidance, sir. I do think New Zealanders are interested in what\u2019s happening in small-town New Zealand; however, I will continue on, looking at the bill as you have suggested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae86af1420964ca9a85178c0258efe09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the member\u2019s tempting me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b01c31ef314756b8cdb5a54dbe08d8\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: One of the issues that this bill addresses is the balance between return on investment and also quality of service. It\u2019s very, very important that we get this balance right, because we need to have the investment to get quality service, and it needs to be at a price where New Zealanders can afford it. So the anchor product is very much part of that\u2014that we ensure that as many New Zealanders as possible can afford this service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we discovered through the progress of this bill was the issue in terms of poor consumer experiences with telecommunication services, which this bill goes some way to address. Consumer New Zealand\u2019s recent survey highlighted that slower than expected broadband speed is quite frustrating. Secondly, disconnections or dropouts of internet services are also an issue. So these were some of the quality issues that this bill starts to address. It\u2019s all well and good to have an ultra-fast fibre network, but it\u2019s got to work, it\u2019s got to be affordable, and it needs to be able to deliver the services to New Zealanders at an affordable price. So managing all of those tensions\u2014and also managing the tension that corporations like Chorus face, in terms of having capability, wanting to stretch further into the retail market, but in doing that, because of their size and scale, threatening that retail market\u2014is certainly an issue that this bill addresses, in terms of that line of division between the wholesale and retail market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased to stand in support of the bill. I thank the Minister for the fact that they have highlighted vulnerable users. Yes, it\u2019s a very important addition. I just want to acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin for her advocacy in that particular area. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201811061953f5ff656b4e4681426c641c4a546b000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f020581574d5445dae6089be53b58ada\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b181d6d25d564d37b0270998868eaa3d\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 7 November 2018)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229129055b184e4899978a611028c34cda\u0022\u003ETelecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a4a076c7a5a4bdd9befac15340b9bd3\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed2fd2614f2b4eb8bb8efd03fb3c32b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed2fd2614f2b4eb8bb8efd03fb3c32b5\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to stand and take a call in the third and final reading of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. While many of my colleagues across the House, and perhaps some people listening out there\u2014their eyes may glaze over when one talks about telecommunications regulation, but actually, I feel quite passionate about it. I want to give a little bit of a brief history of the bill, which goes back to 2012, when the ultra-fast broadband network was getting well under way, and when it became pretty clear that there needed to be a regulatory framework post-2020, when the contractual arrangements for the delivery of this new highway of the future were actually complete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EExtensive consultation was entered into, particularly between 2015 and 2017, and this work, this bill before us today, is the result of that extensive consultation. It has also included the work of seven Ministers in this House, going back to Steven Joyce, Amy Adams, Simon Bridges, myself, and, now, Kris Faafoi, who\u2019s shepherding it through the House. I just want to acknowledge all of those Ministers for the work that\u2019s been done and also the telecommunications industry generally, which can be a fairly fraught environment. It\u2019s very competitive. It\u2019s had its issues over the years, in terms of monopoly players, but what we\u2019ve had and what this bill signifies is major disruption that has occurred in a sector, with the replacement of one technology by another\u2014that being fast fibre ultimately replacing our copper network system\u2014in a way that has the industry largely, not completely but largely, on side and has involved two major parties working cooperatively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOf course, the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee have done a lot of the grunt work on hearing the submissions. I also want to acknowledge the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) officials, and particularly Osmond and Tim, who did an awful lot of work to get this to the point that it is at today. I think it\u2019s something that New Zealand can actually be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhile the eyes may glaze over when one thinks about regulatory frameworks, they are the underpinning of our system working well. This is a utility framework, such as electricity or water. If you were playing Monopoly, you\u2019d be landing on the utilities square and you\u2019d be thinking that we\u2019ve got the fibre regulatory system pretty much right for the future. I think that we should be pretty proud of that. There\u2019s still more work to do, obviously. There\u2019s more disruption coming in the 5G space, and there\u2019s more work to be done to ensure that fast fibre gets out as far into our country as possible, and that we sort out our rural broadband situation so that we don\u2019t have a two-tier system in the country, where people living outside the urban areas are basically struggling to function in the modern world because they can\u2019t get fast fibre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI want to spend a couple of minutes just talking about three or four of the main parts of this bill, where work included in Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 118\u2014which is the work that was done post coming out of select committee\u2014tried to tweak this bill to be the best bill it possibly could be. The first matter is around the anchor pricing. That is the base price at which fibre post-2020 will be. That ended up being sorted in a contractual arrangement rather than through a legislative instrument. So I think, actually, that\u2019s good law, not to put an actual legislated price into the legislation. Instead, a contractual arrangement was entered into with Chorus, particularly, to make the base figure $46.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat means that the consumer out there will not be faced with price shocks, which would then disrupt the industry. While it is not quite as low as some would have liked, it actually does provide a certainty, I think, for all: for the whole of the industry, for the retailers that can then offer the services above that anchor price, but also, and most importantly, for the consumers, where their monthly bill, which is usually now a bundled bill that includes fibre, phone, and Wi-Fi, all of those services\u2014going forward, they will know that they aren\u2019t going to face price shocks. So I think that was a pretty good outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe other one is the line of business provisions, which, again, sounds pretty boring but actually is pretty important. What that does is it ensures protections against ending up with a vertically integrated monopoly in New Zealand again, such as we used to have under Telecom. So that means that Chorus has to provide the wholesale service, rather than being able to get back into being that vertically integrated monopoly. But you can go too far in these things, and you can restrict business services so much that it actually means that the company has nowhere to go. So the SOP actually provides for some tweaking of that to ensure that some innovation can occur around the edges, because disruption and technological change is happening so fast that every technology company, every provider of services, is morphing into something else before our very eyes. So there are provisions in this SOP for the Commerce Commission, as the regulator, to approve some line of business service changes around the edges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe third thing I want to mention is around the definition of \u201Ctelecommunications\u201D, and while I don\u2019t think anyone\u2019s mentioned this yet, this is actually pretty important. On the face of it, it doesn\u2019t seem that important, but what it does is it brings \u201Cbroadcasting transmission\u201D within the definition of \u201Ctelecommunications\u201D. What that means is that the regulator, the Commerce Commission, can actually have some powers in that area. We won\u2019t see the impact of that for a while, but it means that broadcasting transmission is no longer in an unregulated space, which was a ridiculous anomaly in our system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EFinally, the 111 service being available to consumers who are on fibre when power cuts happen and they don\u2019t have a mobile phone\u2014particularly elderly people. I really want to acknowledge New Zealand First\u2019s Tracey Martin for the work she did on that to ensure that this bill had provision for them. Protecting older people, vulnerable people\u2014that\u2019s what a good coalition Government that cares about people does, and I\u2019m pretty proud of it. Overall, I\u2019m pretty proud of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf71bd1ea1a247c6bf6b9139e4ca8e89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf71bd1ea1a247c6bf6b9139e4ca8e89\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I was just looking at the clock and it had four minutes. I was wondering what was actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdd165a1e2184853b3ba8a0c65a84177\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I apologise. There was a technical issue, completely caused by myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254321812201b4c6f847b001bb50ba6f6\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for that clarification. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to speak on the third reading of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the member who just took her seat, the Hon Clare Curran. It was under her, when she was the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, that this bill actually came back to the House. I thank her for the acknowledgment of all of the communications Ministers before her who instigated this work, which resulted in this bill that we had to look at in this Parliament. So I thank her for her work and for her passion. I guess, you know, we may differ in the broadcasting sector, but we do actually agree in the communications sector and in the desire for New Zealand to be more connected in the utilisation of those telecommunications\u2014ultra-fast broadband, ultimately, and also the 5G network that is coming\u2014and in wanting to watch New Zealand develop into a nation that is actually leading in this field. So, I thank her for her work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAlso, I thank the member for the descriptions of the results and the discussions that we\u2019ve had under this bill. But there are a couple of areas that I\u2019d like to, sort of, go into. I guess one of the things that I was particularly concerned about as the committee stages happened, and when there were certain areas of the legislation that were brought to my attention which may potentially create a problem for companies\u2014such as ultra-fast, which the former member has sort of mentioned\u2014was in terms of the definition of, I guess, things like access points, which I\u2019ve mentioned. So I will get into that later on, in terms of the fibre network definition, which I was hoping that the Hon Kris Faafoi might actually address in his final reading, but I believe that he hadn\u2019t quite got there. So I have to say I\u2019m slightly disappointed, and I\u2019m sure that members of the public, who were actually hoping to get a little bit of clarity from the Minister, may be disappointed in that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut 257 written submissions were given to the select committee, and 31 were actually debated. One of the things that I want to clarify is that we want laws that are fit for purpose. We actually want to make sure, as Clare Curran said, and I support, and I think all of us in this Chamber want\u2014we want New Zealand to be a leader in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThroughout the consideration of the bill before the House, many people expressed concern\u2014and, actually, some of it was out of scope, but there were concerns raised regarding the health concern. It wasn\u2019t part of the remit of the bill, but they were talking about issues raised as a result of mobile phone technology, particularly looking into the 5G technology that\u2019s coming forward, and also the Mobile Black Spot Fund programme that the Government is delivering, which began under the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIt was important, during the consideration of the bill in the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, to make sure that we addressed some of these concerns. We even had advice received from the health advisers\u2014the Ministry of Health. It is actually on page 26 of our departmental report, which, basically, says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThere is nothing in the research which would indicate there is a need to change current policy on the health effects of radio waves.\u201D I am very satisfied with that answer. They are the experts, and I believe that throughout the process of this bill going through select committee, through the committee of the whole House stage, and now in the third reading, we are, in fact, answering the concerns of the public who have raised this with us. I feel quite satisfied that we\u2019ve come to the right place on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAnother important issue that members of the public raised was in relation to the copper landlines being withdrawn and the advancement of fibre. I guess, you know, the Hon Tracey Martin talked about the 111 code, and we\u2019ve also discussed this: that nobody in this Chamber or throughout New Zealand wants to deny anybody who has vulnerability the ability to access 111. Nobody does that. Having said that, to blame fibre or the withdrawal of copper for people\u2019s inability to contact 111 is actually false. It is actually the electronics that are the problem; it\u2019s not a copper versus fibre issue. I think we need to make that clearer, but I\u2019m glad that we\u2019ve actually put something in the bill to make sure that the vulnerable people are addressed, and the very fact that copper is still going to be maintained in areas where newer technologies are not available is something that many people in New Zealand will be very happy about from 2020, I guess. When there are no new technologies available, copper will still be available, so people can rest assured. Some constituents have actually also raised concerns about the old copper network. You know, they want to make sure that when emergencies happen\u2014they don\u2019t want the system to go down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EA couple of weeks ago, I had an opportunity to tour the major telecommunications network exchange hub in Christchurch to discuss what it was actually like during the earthquake, for example. I had an opportunity to look around the actual cabling in that network, and it was extremely, I guess, eye opening to see the old system. It was almost like a walk through a museum of old telephony, with the circular dial and\u2014I don\u2019t know what you actually call them\u2014those wind-up phones that you used to have. To actually see the new technology being developed and how much cabling there was for copper versus how little there is for fibre\u2014it was, in fact, quite an eye-opening experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EDuring the visit, I guess I saw first-hand how much effort the companies have actually put into ensuring that telecommunications systems stay operational at such times when there is a power outage following a natural disaster. As I said, the significant difference in size and capacity that fibre versus old copper technology showed was, in fact, very educational. I urge anyone who has an opportunity to go and actually see and visualise the new technology\u2014I would suggest that they also do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI guess I\u2019m satisfied that the telecommunications operators know what they\u2019re going to be doing in the long term, in terms of the phase-out of the copper and also replacement with fibre, and the mobile-communications - based digital world of our future. To me, the upgraded telecommunications network being put in place around New Zealand is, essentially, for the betterment of New Zealand\u2019s future, New Zealand\u2019s communications, New Zealand\u2019s digital sector, and New Zealand\u2019s advancement in digital entertainment, even. We actually need to be in the forefront, and when people are developing new apps and new digital artificial intelligence, virtual reality, and augmented reality, I think we need to make sure that we have the right framework designed and delivered for people to be able to work and lead in those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EDespite some concerns that were raised by stakeholders, as I alluded to earlier\u2014concern about the access point issue\u2014I guess, like any legislation or any bill that is being debated in this House, when all stakeholders are happy\u2014it never happens. It\u2019s never going to happen. That means that the Government has, actually, perhaps not done their job if everyone\u2019s happy. I think when stakeholders on both sides of the debate are slightly happy on either side, I think you have to sort of say that we\u2019ve created a bit of a balance, and as long as they\u2019re not too concerned, I think they\u2019ve done well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00220b59f5deb7da4e31ac60fc4d10546afe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b59f5deb7da4e31ac60fc4d10546afe\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, your time has expired. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00221119df44a8324d8e8b9ecb6a984ed9b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221119df44a8324d8e8b9ecb6a984ed9b7\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Infrastructure):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I stand to take a call on this particular bill, which, obviously, New Zealand First supports. My thoughts actually go back to the troubled time when an erstwhile colleague David Cunliffe had some measure of influence over this sector. In those days Theresa Gattung, if I\u2019m not mistaken, was the CEO of Telecom, and Roderick Deane was the chair. We were concerned about the inordinate amount of influence and power that that entity, Telecom, enjoyed\u2014monopolistic power. The virtue of this bill is that time has passed, and now what we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re looking at and surveying a situation where there\u2019s more competitiveness, but within that more competitive structure there are still unfinished issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOne of those does need to be elaborated upon, partly because it was championed, as my colleague Clare Curran has referred to, by Minister Tracey Martin, and that was to ensure that stranded communities or legacy communities\u2014given that I\u2019m 59, I\u2019ll soon be over 65, if my former rugby injuries don\u2019t blight my prospects in the future. The reality is that not everyone is as comfortable or as adept as the new generation in using \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003Etechnology. So we developed protections in this bill to ensure that emergency calling was not left to the whims of arbitrary decision makers in these organisations, and to ensure that communities in rural New Zealand and, in particular, communities of the elderly, aren\u2019t forgotten about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAs we are further rolling out ICT services through\u2014I digress for a minute\u2014the Provincial Growth Fund, we\u2019re actually building upon something that I personally agree with what was done. You can debate whether or not the former Minister Steven Joyce took the right approach, but he most certainly put the proverbials on the line and committed the Crown to an enormous amount of capital expenditure. In my part of the world, we\u2019ve actually seen that model roll out quite well, certainly in Whangarei\u2014not so good further north. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo, whilst it\u2019s had a long-term gestation, we won\u2019t have a modern economy with what we expect for this generation and future generations unless we get the right balance between investment and a strong regulator. I\u2019m very happy to see that the bill does not cancel the levy. I quite like the model of a levy and look forward to applying it to other parts of the economy. If it\u2019s good enough for the telecommunications part of the economy, I see great prospects in the banking part. That, unfortunately, lies with another Minister; however, my advocacy will not be quelled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo without further ado, our party supports this bill and commends its expeditious passing through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00226bd7a069888d4489a7ba130317a9ec89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bd7a069888d4489a7ba130317a9ec89\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me pleasure, following the previous speaker, Shane Jones, and the two or three people who spoke before that who knew what they were talking about with respect to telecommunications. As a true resident of the provinces, it\u2019s a pleasure to follow the previous speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI guess my concerns about telecommunications and the way we deal with it are not so much related to the speed at which we can regulate it to ensure that our economy is able to develop in the future but it\u2019s about the people that get left behind by the development of this kind of technology. One of the challenges that we have as a country, because of the very nature of us, our geography, the people that live in it, and, interestingly, the fact that the large majority of our income comes from parts of New Zealand that struggle the most with telecommunications, with electricity provision, and all those sort of things\u2014so our challenge as a country, whoever\u2019s in the Government, is to actually get services to those regions where the productivity comes from. That\u2019s, I guess, one of the key reasons that we have to regulate both the telecommunications industry and the electricity industry, because both of those are vital parts of the potential growth of our productive economy, and they\u2019re certainly important to us in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing that has happened in New Zealand, and I think it\u2019s because of our geography and because of our location in the world, is that we have people moving to New Zealand with very interesting business models, and they move to parts of New Zealand where we have great difficulty providing services but nonetheless they bring significant income to the country. They bring a whole lot of value to the country in the form of new technologies, business, and things like that. So they move here, and they go to parts of New Zealand that are, without question, the most beautiful parts of the world, actually, but, none the less, places where we as service providers and as a Government struggle to get communications into that area. So the issues that I\u2019m interested in, with respect to this bill, are particularly issues that cover those areas that struggle for services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWe, of course, support this bill. I want to talk about one or two things within the bill that I think are interesting and probably debatable, and one of them is the deregulation of the copper services. Obviously, we\u2019ve relied on them in all parts of New Zealand\u2014morning, Goldsmith. Nice to see you. We\u2019ve certainly relied on copper for all of our services in rural New Zealand, from the days when you used to\u2014I think our phone number was 12D, and it was sort of like two longs and three shorts. Now, not many of you in this room, with the exception perhaps of the previous speaker, will remember that time, but I most certainly do. Of course, you could also pick up the phone and listen to your neighbour, provided you knew who it was\u2014you could pick up the phone and listen to what your neighbour was talking about. So, really, the protection of our privacy and all that sort of thing nowadays is nothing new, because in those days you knew everyone down the line and who they were talking to and what they were talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ENone the less, the world\u2019s changed for most people but it hasn\u2019t changed for some people in New Zealand, and that\u2019s one of the challenges of the deregulation of the copper services and the threat that that, to some extent, provides. I realise that the bill goes to lengths to give the Commerce Commission the ability to review the provision of copper services and when they should be, or when they\u2019re entitled, I guess, to no longer be provided. I live in one of those areas and have just moved, and I still live in one of those areas, and, interestingly, I can throw a stone and hit one of our major defence bases but, none the less, still don\u2019t have a fibre line to my house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a massive problem for New Zealand, and it will last for some time to come yet. Despite the effort, as the previous speaker said, of the previous Government and the significant resource that the likes of Steven Joyce and Amy Adams put into this on behalf of that Government, this is going to be an ongoing process, and I\u2019m pleased to see this Government continuing to speed that process up as quickly as they can. Of course, technology enables changes to happen very quickly, and, as with all large entities, Governments lock themselves into contracts. We, interestingly, find ourselves locked into contracts nowadays not only in the telecommunications area but many others where the technology has gone right past those contracts and goes past them very quickly. So it\u2019s an area that I think is hugely complicated, and it\u2019s an area of risk for us, and it always will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this bill talks about is greater consumer protections, and, despite the very best efforts of our legislators, and however we might go about that, we are never going to get the perfect system of consumer protection. I think that it\u2019s all very well to have consumer protection in place, and you can take an average of or a view of what that consumer protection might look like, but you certainly can\u2019t get a broad scope of consumer protection that protects everyone equally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnother issue I was interested in talking about, and I note that Clare Curran raised it earlier, was the issue of vulnerable and older people. As we go to change all sorts of legislation\u2014I notice the tax legislation just going through the Finance and Expenditure Committee today is dealing with changes to our tax department which are very clearly putting more emphasis on the use of technology and the way we deliver those services\u2014for old people and the more vulnerable in our community, it becomes a threat, because some of us, as I said earlier, are used to the 12D phone line where you\u2019ve got the long, short, long, and suddenly we\u2019ve got to use telecommunications to deal with our tax issues, with our banking, and with all sorts of things. As those organisations and, indeed, the Government move to provide more and more services online, that becomes a greater threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo the very careful regulation and regulatory framework that we operate under is hugely important to those people and certainly makes it more important that we\u2019re able to not only regulate and provide services to those people, but the other challenge we\u2019ve got with this stuff is making sure\u2014and if we\u2019re a Government department we\u2019ve got a significant challenge\u2014that we provide the information and the ability for them to deal with those issues in a manner that is equitable for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EInterestingly, the consumer survey on this kind of thing done not so long ago reported that 11 percent of our people have problems with both online services and with telecommunications services. It\u2019s all very well for us to say 11 percent of them, but, as I said earlier, the 11 percent might be a very large part of our productive economy. So we can put things in percentages and it doesn\u2019t sound like it\u2019s many people or a very large part of our economy, but it certainly is. So it\u2019s hugely important that we keep working to lift the responsiveness and services we provide for those people and make sure in the course of that that we do our very best to regulate the opportunity for those people to receive those services and to use them as part of their ongoing life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting that the Commerce Commission has got responsibility for understanding this bill, for declaring which geographic areas are specified fibre areas\u2014in other words, where the copper lines can be either removed or run down. That will be a challenge in itself, because, as I said earlier, I live in an area where fibre goes past my gateway but it doesn\u2019t go to my house and it\u2019s not accessible. So regulation is required to ensure that these things are accessible, that people can get at them, and that they work well for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I, like the National Party, support this bill. It\u2019s necessary. It won\u2019t be perfect, because the scene we\u2019re living in changes so quickly. As I said earlier, I guess my greatest fear in the whole of this process is that we continue to provide the very best services we can to that productive part of our economy and the isolated part of our economy that needs those services. But they most certainly also need the support of a regulatory framework, and we\u2019ve seen in the electricity industry that that is fraught and a very difficult thing to do. It\u2019s easy to regulate for the major centres of population but very difficult to regulate satisfactorily for our broader and more sparsely populated parts of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo, certainly, we support this bill and I look forward to seeing how it operates, and I\u2019m pretty sure there\u2019ll be another amendment bill back in the House within a very short time. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022338f4911df8e4dd3b3a094c67bf9fc28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022338f4911df8e4dd3b3a094c67bf9fc28\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena. Ata m\u0101rie koutou katoa. Actually, the previous speaker reminded me of a quite relevant\u2014sorry, I think that\u2019s you, Mr McKelvie. I haven\u2019t got my glasses on this morning. [Interruption] Yes, all good\u2014yeah, I might need yours. In Ruat\u014Dria, I reckon about 11 years ago, Nanny Ruby\u2014who grew up all her life and lived in Ruat\u014Dria\u2014came to Wellington. And in Ruat\u014Dria the telecommunications system there, and what she was used to, was exactly what Mr McKelvie was referring to. So then she came to Wellington to stay with us. She picked up the phone and dialled a wrong number. She was waiting to speak to Auntie Puti, and the person said \u201CNo, no, no. This isn\u2019t that number.\u201D She said, \u201CWell what\u2019s Auntie Puti\u2019s number then?\u201D She was just used to everyone in the community knowing that you could ring anyone up and they would know everyone else\u2019s number, but it was also her, I guess, use of the system of the shared phone lines, or whatever it was\u2014I don\u2019t understand it, but you actually shared a phone line and could talk to various people just by picking up the phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ERuat\u014Dria has gone through a lot of change since then, and, actually, it might sound like a bit of an anomaly, but when I moved to Ruat\u014Dria, I think in 2007-ish, from Botany, Ruat\u014Dria had a faster internet than I was experiencing in Botany. Now, I remember at that time that actually all up and down the East Coast Chorus were renting people\u2019s homes up and down the East Coast to get the fibre rolled out. So I actually think that that\u2019s what was happening at the time, and they were starting to open up those very isolated\u2014very isolated\u2014communities, and that was good that we were getting super-fast broadband out to those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo it is, of course, that I rise today on behalf of the Green Party in support of this bill, which also is about introducing a regulatory framework, a check, and for us that is principally around making sure that the benefits of information communications technology, ICT, are shared fairly in a way that is just among people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EActually, I want to acknowledge Gareth Hughes, our spokesperson on this. Particularly, I cast my thoughts back to 2013, when right back then the Greens, Labour, and New Zealand First actually weren\u2019t wanting to support some legislation which would override the Commerce Commission\u2019s upper internet price ruling, and there was legislation that was going to protect profit, to put it simply. So I am very glad that we are seeing, I think, the next steps and some solutions around having a regulatory framework, a check and balance, but that isn\u2019t also too restrictive, as we\u2019ve heard many speakers refer to. We\u2019re just trying to get that balance, still allowing for innovation and creativity in the sector, allowing for that innovation particularly to benefit consumers across the board and to all areas of our country, but also protecting consumers as much as is practicable. So supporting ultra-fast broadband for New Zealand and seeing it successfully rolled out\u2014I know that this legislation is part of the steps of helping us to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI was supposed to take a short call, but I wanted to actually pick up on the disability and inclusive technology. And then, of course, Melissa Lee rose to touch on that quite a bit. I took note that there is perhaps some concern particularly from Enable New Zealand, who facilitate and deliver quality access to resources for people with identified health and disability support needs, particularly in the telecommunications sector. So I think it\u2019s fair. Local fibre companies like Enable will face only light-handed regulation in this legislation, is what I\u2019m seeing, and Enable will only face price regulation if the Commerce Commission finds that it has substantial market power. So that is a substantial safeguard, but I think it\u2019s fair for us to keep a monitor on that, to keep a monitor on how this regulatory framework will impact on various different companies, service providers, making sure that those who have bigger, more massive market power and those who have lesser market power are being treated in a way that is just, and particularly if it\u2019s going to impact on people with a disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI actually did want to pick up on the point that Melissa Lee made\u2014you know, it\u2019s something I\u2019ll look into a little bit more so I can understand a bit more of it\u2014that when it comes to effective ICT, particularly for people with a disability, the debate is around the efficiency of the electronics system itself rather than copper versus fibre. It\u2019s something that\u2014I\u2019m new to this debate in that particular aspect\u2014I\u2019m interested in picking that up and keeping an eye on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EAgain, I welcome this legislation because historically, yes, it appears the broadcasting transmission platform was totally unregulated, and I was thinking about a bit of a parallel. I think that if we\u2019re getting this put in place at this stage, it will, hopefully, allow us down the road to not get into some real trouble, particularly for consumers and just ordinary people around the country\u2014the likes of which we have seen, for example, with what the Lines Company are doing for power distribution around the country and how that is not fair right now. So I think this is a good step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI did want to acknowledge that InternetNZ support the bill, saying that it will protect consumer interests. They are a non-profit organisation and they have principles along the sorts of value statements of ICT needing to be shared among everyone, and that it should be used to enhance productivity and reduce resource use\u2014those sorts of values statements. They are giving a signal that it will protect consumer interests and lead to better service quality and fair prices for users, which is an important flag from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EAlso, we\u2019ve got\u2014I think it is\u2014the Telecommunications Users Association of New Zealand, and they\u2019re another telecommunications user group who have said they supported this bill. I wanted to acknowledge one of the criticisms that they make, which is that the bill doesn\u2019t address the inequality of resource for consumer voice research and advocacy in New Zealand when compared to other jurisdictions such as Australia. So we might want to pick up on that as some of our next steps and reviews, because I think it\u2019s a fair enough issue to pick up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI think, overall\u2014and we\u2019re all supporting this here in this House today; we\u2019re doing some good work this morning\u2014it really just goes back to understanding that the communications sector is going to be vital, can offer incredible promise for some of the visions that we actually need to be able to achieve for our country, for our people, for our environment, particularly in reducing waste, reducing travel in the way that we go around our work. So I am really welcoming this legislation to enable us to get on with the job. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002222e4fda3ac3e4db483c855c7acfef6ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222e4fda3ac3e4db483c855c7acfef6ac\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to join with the widespread support across this House for this legislation, the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill, which we\u2019re now putting down for its third reading. The bill amends the Telecommunications Act, as we know, to establish a stable and predictable regulatory framework for fixed fibre line access services in New Zealand\u2014[Interruption] Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s work that the National Party began in the last Parliament and which had made some progress under the previous Government and is now being continued on by this Government\u2014good, sound legislation, backed after careful scrutiny and communication with the broader industry that it affected. I hesitate to make the contrast\u2014but I will\u2014between some of the previous bills that we\u2019ve been speaking about in the last day or two, most notably the Crown Minerals (Petroleum) Amendment Bill, which dealt with the offshore exploration in the oil and gas sector, which displayed none of those basic attempts to understand what was really going on and to liaise effectively with the industry affected. But this is how you go about doing quality regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re talking about here is the regulation of the ultra-fast broadband services that the previous National Government invested about $2 billion in laying out across the country. It is a key part, now, of the national infrastructure that we have. It\u2019s almost as important as roads and other fundamental infrastructure that we have, in terms of power and other things that are essential to the workings of the economy. Of course, it didn\u2019t exist 20 or 30 years ago, but with the development of the immense computing power and the connectivity that we have within the country and all around the world, the roll-out of ultra-fast broadband, we thought in the previous Government, was something that the Government needed to have a hand in and could usefully contribute to the investment in so that it would happen more quickly than it would otherwise have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe various countries all around the world have gone about this in different ways. The only point I\u2019d make is that, in this particular respect, I think we\u2019ve done a better job than our friends across the Tasman, who have spent billions and billions of dollars on their scheme with far less effect and success than we have in New Zealand. So under the previous National Government settings, we were on track to have 87 percent of New Zealand households connected to ultra-fast broadband by 2020, and maybe even earlier under ultra-fast broadband phase two. The point I would make\u2014and we have the Minister for Regional Economic Development here talking to one of my colleagues, Ian McKelvie, which is a little bit concerning. He\u2019s concerned about regional development\u2014well, there was no more useful regional development than the investment that we have made in ultra-fast broadband and in the Rural Broadband Initiative, the RBI, in order to get the many different towns and hamlets around this country connected to ultra-fast broadband.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis legislation is about coming up with a regulatory framework, particularly in relation to Chorus, which owns much of that fibre network, to ensure, as it, essentially, has control over that critical piece of infrastructure, that it\u2019s not able to take excess profits at the expense of consumers, and is, ultimately, regulated about the price cap that it can have. So Chorus will be subject to a revenue cap, but, most importantly, the company will be required to provide certain anchor services to its wholesale customers. As you can imagine\u2014not you, Madam Assistant Speaker, but listeners\u2014there are all sorts of complications around the arrangements between the provider of the core service and the many different innovative companies that are operating, using those services, and providing, as intermediaries, those services to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe want to see innovation flourish. We want to see different companies coming up with different ways of delivering the ultra-fast broadband, whether it\u2019s super-fast for people who are prepared to pay for it, or just medium speed, and all the various combinations and permutations of that. We want that innovation to flourish, and for that to happen, those companies need to have access to the core infrastructure in a way that works for them and is predictable and is based on a set of rules that everybody can make long-term investments over. That\u2019s what this legislation seeks to put into place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the revenue cap gives Chorus the flexibility in how it sets its prices for most products but also ensures that Chorus can\u2019t earn excess returns. The safeguard built into the system is that Chorus will be required to supply price-regulated anchor products. They\u2019ll initially be at the entry-level broadband product, about 100 megabits per second upload and 20 megabits per second download, and voice-only products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this is not simply so that we can all get better access to Netflix and Lightbox and all the other streaming services that New Zealanders have shown great enthusiasm for over the past few years. It is partly that, and why not\u2014there\u2019s some good stuff on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8c97a450724605be21e8da5cf9166b\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: House of Cards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f9f09b871b43a6b9633ad13e917056\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes. Bodyguard is the one I\u2019ve been watching recently\u2014very good\u2014on Netflix. So that has enabled all sorts of different ways of entertaining ourselves. But, the power of broadband, of course, is much more significant than that. The ability for all the classrooms in New Zealand to be able to stream video and connect anywhere they are in the world is a massive, massive boon for education if teachers and the education system itself are innovative enough to make use of it. Also, for our businesses right throughout the country\u2014being able to connect with global marketplaces such as Amazon and Alibaba and all the different global marketplaces that rely on having excellent internet connections, but also just trading with companies and consumers all around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe previous Government invested heavily in providing this infrastructure, and we continue to invest throughout, in the technology space. In fact, just this morning I was over at Greta Point, at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA), with Minister Megan Woods, at the opening of the latest supercomputer that NIWA has bought in order to crunch the numbers in terms of its climate modelling. Interestingly, that computer is the third supercomputer they\u2019ve bought. It is 1,000 times more powerful than the first. The incredible ability to make a difference, in terms of understanding our world\u2014it\u2019s all just part of the investment that we\u2019ve continued to make over an extended period, and I commend the current Minister, Megan Woods, for their ongoing commitment to that investment in infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to talk about was the deregulation of copper services. It is important that all Governments should demonstrate regulatory restraint, and so when there was one single copper line around the country and it was a monopoly, it was regulated in order to ensure that consumers weren\u2019t\u2014like every monopoly, the Government takes an interest to ensure that consumers are getting a fair go. As soon as it is no longer a monopoly, then it is appropriate that we step back and allow normal competition to rule. So copper is not the only way you can get a telephone service to a house. Obviously, you\u2019ve got cellphone coverage, and we\u2019ve had it for a long time, but now, through fibre, you can have digital audio phone calling. So there\u2019s no longer a monopoly with the copper line, and so we no longer need to regulate it, and as soon as we don\u2019t need to, we shouldn\u2019t. The normal competitive forces of the economy can be far more effective than any regulator based in Wellington. That\u2019s why we step back in conditions where ultra-fast broadband is available. People can have a choice, and then the normal market disciplines apply. But of course where there isn\u2019t yet that choice, then we still have to deal with the situation with copper. So this is a sensible and pragmatic move, but it is part of a mind-set which says that when you no longer need to regulate, you shouldn\u2019t, in order for investment to flow as rapidly as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, all in all, it\u2019s good to see this legislation, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002239c4ffae50994945a9e8e34b7f8afad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239c4ffae50994945a9e8e34b7f8afad1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand this is a split call\u20145 minutes, Dr Duncan Webb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002258a7f354d4e34692bdba57c908f536c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258a7f354d4e34692bdba57c908f536c3\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It appears that peace has broken out. Indeed, Mr Goldsmith was right: when we don\u2019t need to regulate something, of course we shouldn\u2019t. It is an interesting and very useful piece of legislation, though, because what we have is a huge and largely Crown-funded investment in infrastructure. What we see here is technology moving very, very fast indeed\u2014not only from copper to fibre, but we see very near on the horizon 5G, which may indeed make some of the infrastructure we have largely redundant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOne of the real challenges of this legislation was how to deal with the fact that these businesses\u2014Chorus and other local providers\u2014have put huge amounts of fibre under the ground at hundreds of millions of dollars of cost, and yet now they\u2019re being asked to provide those services to cellphone towers, which may, in fact, be undercutting their own market. Now, that was a real challenge, and I must say that the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media took that on and has done a very good job in, essentially, saying that there won\u2019t be price regulation in respect of those ultra-fast broadband services in those non-Chorus settings. There are contractual arrangements for Chorus, but in the other settings the decision has been made to say, \u201CLook, there is the shadow of regulation but no price regulation at all.\u201D so that there can be some flexibility, some versatility, in terms of facing these new challenges about how you price something which was designed to go to business premises and household premises but now may well be going to cellphone towers which themselves serve 200 or 300 homes. There are some really difficult technical challenges in there, and I must say that I commend both the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee and also the Minister for engaging with industry at every level to address those very, very difficult issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, in sum, this is a piece of legislation which addresses competition issues where monopolies tend to emerge in a rapidly changing technological environment. It\u2019s a technical piece of legislation but an absolutely essential one. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecb4cf70506e4741bce55fef30dbbc43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecb4cf70506e4741bce55fef30dbbc43\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Assistant Speaker, it\u2019s my pleasure to take a short call on this Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. I like the fact that the whole of the Parliament agrees on this. It\u2019s a very sensible and pragmatic way forward, and that\u2019s because it\u2019s been worked on by a number of Ministers over a number of years and a number of Governments. I likened it to one of my former colleagues, who said, \u201CWhat we do with technology is very similar to what New Zealand has done with the roading network, what we have done with the power distribution network, and how we provide water to people. This is the next realm.\u201D Our ability to communicate and our ability to share information across the globe has been transformational on the global economy, and this work, really, simply brings us up to date and puts us in a forward-looking way that we can make the best of the new technology. So I acknowledge the work from the former Minister the Hon Clare Curran and the work by the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee that has brought this to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EWhat we have on these machines is transforming our lives, and, as we seek to use them more and more, we have to look after the advancing needs of New Zealanders, but we also have to look after people like my mum, who\u2019s got limited ability to use these things but is also worried about the security of what the former system offered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI wish to acknowledge the work of New Zealand First in looking after some of our older and more vulnerable people in bringing changes to the legislation\u2014something that I personally support, and I know many people in our community, who feel vulnerable with the pace of change, will personally support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI like the balance that is in this legislation and the change, because what we\u2019re really saying is that we can keep the old where the new is not available\u2014in other words, where there is not fibre and all the technology that goes with fibre, there is a requirement for copper to be provided. Over time, that will be phased out, but there may be some places that it\u2019s probably never going to be viable for fibre to be run. There will be alternative solutions, but, in the meantime, copper must be provided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI want to touch on a comment that was made by my fellow colleague Mr Ian McKelvie. It is amazing to me that in his own farm and his own situation, he cannot get broadband to his home, right next to a large air force base. We have some significant challenges, and while where I live and work, I have the availability of the best type of technology and the fastest type of technology, we do need to acknowledge and we need to keep incentivising and working to make sure that broadband and fibre is made available to as many New Zealanders as can possibly happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIt was a mission of the last Government, and I\u2019m pleased it\u2019s carrying on with the next Government, to try and make broadband as widely available as possible by various incentives and investment options. The change that is being made here is simply a reflection on changing times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EFor me, this has been one of the better processes. I\u2019ve watched a Supplementary Order Paper being brought in. I\u2019ve watched New Zealand First work on natural concerns they had. I think this is a very good framework for New Zealanders to go forward. I think we can have the best of both worlds. 5G technology is going to fundamentally change how things are delivered, yet this bill allows for the best of every world. From what we had\u2014and I think other people have referred to the \u201CRing, ring! Are you working?\u201D type of party line system\u2014to where we\u2019re going to go in the future is catered for in this bill, and I think it strikes the right balance across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u00229a377ad360524f1b86ddc2db16e86a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a377ad360524f1b86ddc2db16e86a3c\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. This is the third reading of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill, and I\u2019m very pleased to be taking a short call on it. I wasn\u2019t part of the select committee that dealt with this bill, and I have to admit, when I was first reading through the document, my eyes did start to glaze over as I learnt more about copper fixed line services regulation than I ever thought I needed to know. But this is obviously a very important bill, as we have heard from our wonderful colleague Clare Curran as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to commend the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the great work that they\u2019ve done on this, because this bill modernises the Telecommunications Act, ensuring that we have a stable framework for fibre access services in New Zealand and enhancing New Zealand\u2019s connectivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOn a personal note, I share the sentiments expressed by Ian McKelvie. My family too lives rural, and at first it looked like we couldn\u2019t get internet at all. We did eventually get some broadband, but it\u2019s over copper lines, and we might as well be on dial-up. It\u2019s so frustrating. So I know, on a personal note, that my family is welcoming this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019ve very little to add after Clare Curran spoke so eloquently about the issues in this bill, explaining what it is about and explaining the important changes that the Supplementary Order Paper is making after the feedback to the select committee. So I\u2019d like to end on the fact that this bill, obviously, gives certainty to the industry. It encourages further investment by network providers, but, at the same time, it also protects the consumers. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f25786be48e4474e9eec5eb6f7756d39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f25786be48e4474e9eec5eb6f7756d39\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be taking a call on the third reading of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. This bill has been progressing through the House for quite a long time, but I do just have a few comments I\u2019d like to make on the process that we\u2019ve gone through in passing it. I do sit on the select committee that considered this bill\u2014the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. We are a split committee, so we do have to act in a very collaborative and cohesive manner. We are represented by the three governing parties and also, obviously, by the National Opposition. We are very ably chaired, I think, by Jonathan Young. Also, we\u2019ve got some subject matter experts on issues like this, in people like Gareth Hughes, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge his extensive knowledge in this area and thank him for the advice that he gave us throughout the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI mentioned that there has been quite a long gestation to the bill, so I just wanted to cover off some aspects of that. It\u2019s been quite adequately covered earlier in the debate by Clare Curran as well, because this bill has quite a history, and it does go back a long way. There are quite a few Ministers\u2014in fact, she mentioned Steven Joyce, and that was quite a few years ago. The one I was going to start with was with Amy Adams, who released the results of the telecommunications review back in 2016\u2014so a couple of years ago now\u2014and that set out a new direction for regulating broadband and phone services. Not long after that, in 2017, the new communications Minister, Simon Bridges, set that new direction into a bill, and introduced that piece of legislation on 1 June 2017\u2014so nearly a year and a half ago now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI do just want to point out, though, that even though it has been a long gestation, that is not a criticism of either the previous National Government or the Labour Government, because, as we found during the debate in the select committee on this bill, this is something we do need to get right. Members on both sides of the House today have pointed out the reasons why that is. I would like to acknowledge, as well, the two Ministers that this bill has been under on the opposite side: Clare Curran\u2014thank you, Ms Curran, for the advice that your officials gave the select committee during our proceedings; it was most appreciated\u2014and, of course Kris Faafoi, who gets the good fortune, I guess, of having the bill passed in the final reading under his name. I\u2019m sure that will put him in good stead when the next Cabinet reshuffle does occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe had to consider a number of different aspects of the bill. There were two issues in particular that the select committee grappled with, and I think they\u2019ve been, again, fairly well covered on both sides of the House today. The first one is around the debate between new technologies and innovation, on the one side, and then, on the other hand, ensuring that people remain connected, particularly in rural and isolated communities. That\u2019s something that we debated at length, and it certainly came up in the submissions. We had 257 submissions on the bill and heard 31 of those in person. So there was quite a lot of debate around it. It got quite technical at some stages and, again, it was useful to have people like Gareth Hughes, who has a long history in this area, and also, of course, the officials who guided us through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo we had to have that debate around, of course, making sure that we\u2019re making the most of innovation as it develops and as new technologies emerge, but also ensuring that when we embrace those new technologies, we\u2019re not unfairly or unreasonably cutting off people\u2019s access to important telecommunications services, or even just being connected to their local area. There\u2019s been some discussion earlier in the debate about the work that New Zealand First did on 111 services. I\u2019d like to acknowledge their work on that as well, because that, of course, was a particular area of concern for people in rural and isolated areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe other issue that we grappled with at length on the committee was just in relation to the health impacts, or potential impacts. Quite a number of those 257 submissions, and certainly a number of the 31 oral submissions that came to us, were concerned about the potential health impacts of moving away from copper fixed line to new innovative technologies around fibre. We certainly heard those out. I think it\u2019s fair to say that most members of the committee were a bit sceptical about some of the claims that were put forward and some of the dubious research that was quoted from offshore about the effect of these new technologies on health, but we certainly looked into it. We sought advice from the Ministry of Health, and they came in to brief us on the bill. If there were any concerns in the select committee, they certainly satisfied those and said that there was next to no risk of these new technologies impacting negatively on people\u2019s health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s fair to say that the people that submitted on the bill who were concerned about those aspects probably won\u2019t be satisfied by the Ministry of Health advice, and, certainly, if they\u2019re not satisfied by that, they won\u2019t be satisfied by what I\u2019m saying in the House today. But I do think that they were heard. Jonathan Young, as our chair, was very respectful in the way that they were heard. Certainly, it got a little bit interesting during some of the debates, but he was very fair in making sure that they had the ability to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EMy colleague Ian McKelvie earlier mentioned the fact that he comes from quite a rural area, and he mentioned that he is not far from, I think, a reasonable-sized defence establishment in the central North Island, and mentioned that he doesn\u2019t have fibre anywhere near his house. There is that debate, I guess, ongoing at the moment about where it is and where it isn\u2019t, and, certainly, as a provincial member of Parliament, I find the same thing, where it\u2019s certainly present in some of our larger towns, and I think of the likes of where I used to live in Ashburton\u2014certainly it\u2019s fully fibre there. But then there are other communities where it\u2019s being rolled out, like Pleasant Point, where I live now\u2014unfortunately, even when it is rolled out, it still won\u2019t come quite over the hill to my house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m conscious of the fact that we have Nicola Willis, one of my colleagues\u2014she has talked to me at length many times about Karori. Karori, I understand, is the largest suburb in the country, and it doesn\u2019t have fibre yet. Small communities like Pleasant Point will probably end up with fibre before Karori does. So despite Nicola, I think, pushing very strongly on that issue in caucus, unfortunately that\u2019s unlikely to occur for a couple of years yet, and that, of course, comes back to the commercial reality of when the providers can install it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI just want to spend the final couple of minutes speaking in relation to the process again, and that\u2019s about the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that was brought forward during the committee of the whole House stage. This has been a collegial debate, and I don\u2019t wish to, I guess, insert a negative note to it, but it did certainly leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, because we did consider a lot of these issues at length on the committee. It did disappoint me, I guess, that the Minister brought forward an SOP at the 11th hour to make changes. I do think they were positive changes\u2014certainly with the elements I spoke about earlier, with the 111 connectivity for rural and isolated areas. That makes absolute sense. But it did disappoint me that the select committee didn\u2019t have the opportunity to consider those amendments. The Minister could have quite easily sent a draft SOP to us while we were considering the bill, and we could have considered those amendments alongside the legislation. Unfortunately, that didn\u2019t happen, so it was tabled at the 11th hour. As I say, they are good changes, but it was unfortunate that there wasn\u2019t that level of democratic oversight, or certainly not the ability for submitters to make their feelings known on what those amendments were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI did mention during the committee of the whole House stage that we could consider sending it back to select committee for a short, truncated period. That, obviously, didn\u2019t happen. I am conscious that this bill has been going through the House for a very long time, so I don\u2019t wish to hold it up any longer. That was a suggestion that that would have, obviously, elongated the process by a couple of weeks, but I think it would have provided a good opportunity for us to consider those amendments. So the only opportunity we had to do that was, of course, the committee of the whole House stage, which we did at length, and now during this third reading as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t wish to hold up the debate any longer. I\u2019m very aware that there are a large number of, particularly, industry players out there who are very keen to see this legislation progress. So I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002238020a42c6e64d68bd19df93fb154fdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238020a42c6e64d68bd19df93fb154fdf\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just rise to take a really short call in support of the Telecommunications (New Regulatory Framework) Amendment Bill. One particular part of this piece of legislation that I particularly like is that it puts a framework in place that\u2019s going to support long-term investment, and ultra-fast broadband providers are not going to be able to make a large profit at the expense of the consumer. I think that\u2019s one of the key things about it\u2014that it\u2019s really important that the consumer is protected here and has better protections, at least, anyway, because we know that the internet is no longer a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D; it\u2019s actually an \u201Cessential-to-have\u201D. We use it in our education system. We have businesses that rely solely on that type of function, through internet\u2014that\u2019s just how their business operates completely. We find that more and more people are actually working from home and, therefore, it\u2019s really important that they have the good connectivity that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESo as I\u2019ve said, it\u2019s no longer a \u201Cnice-to-have\u201D; it\u2019s actually an essential thing that we need to have. Again, I think it\u2019s imperative that the consumer is protected, given those reasons. So I\u2019m not going to take up any more time, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.10 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20181106a0756027ed9a4e399e0e48f32f13af6b000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"