"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7de50ace7614cbf94f1f198a495127e\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229765244100b14f61bf85efb376fc3a15\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7af793e4e96430fbbffd1cbc2e27fc7\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4877bab09b343f58822458fd251e830\u0022\u003EKiwiSaver (Compassionate Consideration) Amendment Bill\u2014Leave to Introduce\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002225ad0c258115423d8efe4aeda9181be2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225ad0c258115423d8efe4aeda9181be2\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to introduce the KiwiSaver (Compassionate Consideration) Amendment Bill in my name and for this bill to be set down as members\u2019 order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd1cd833eff44ee2a674d1bf9fe78678\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd1cd833eff44ee2a674d1bf9fe78678\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222cbab90ea29f4a9fbcbac8369911e009\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216baffd6a03f4aee98d39d035699b5f9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2e127a46831484aacb22fd0a70ef9c1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022938c31fd81344916aa21725f9589ca3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022938c31fd81344916aa21725f9589ca3b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd250ca43029409087b3c504b5890117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd250ca43029409087b3c504b5890117\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8b67d08e9e42419acadcc16157227f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Labour leader Jacinda Ardern\u2019s statement that there will be no nationwide strikes under her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022301301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290d0ac45328d419eafcdc6fb0f485f82\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That statement was given during a very fine election debate, as I recall, with the then National leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227598141e7f264763962d05db12425644\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239731aeee3c64c4394a6618e46151934\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That was Dr Bill English, and I have to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8091e86b16c44919fa7338bcc586529\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Promoted him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022301301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e1fdd270b04c74a0726889a79f230d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I have promoted him\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff506fe2fde847d888c75e804edf53ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I know it\u2019s the Christmas season, but I think if the question can be answered directly, that would be preferable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022301301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225592ebb6efc64b789377fe9f1f556a2f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, relatively speaking, he deserved that lift in status. I think, to answer the question, that was, of course, an answer to fair pay agreements. I gave the confirmation then and I give it again now: there will be no strike action around fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022819e02b4a63e4f5ea705b35ed9231274\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that there have been more strikes under her Government than at any time since she was a child at primary school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295cd633f8747433f84c5bc9595878672\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to the fact that we are operating under the exact same law\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ca58de18264f5f9f81981369a35951\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. No different\u2014no different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39d1fc721e34baa85d66f88efa6a7f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in terms of employment law that we did under that Government\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbae61b3807f4aeaa02d9b9e7a4b9ca1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, Grant Robertson is mainly responsible for that and he is to be quiet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223120dc17f2b84802a371f922ed942e72\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Shall I complete it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234de9affd7e4b06b53733065a0497f4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I could hardly hear a thing because of the exchange between Mr Bridges and Mr Robertson, so I\u2019m going to ask the Prime Minister to repeat her answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540a6f302237428bbd790972d4747bf3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, the exact same law, of course, has continued to be in force during the course of the strike action we have seen whilst being in Government. The only thing I will take responsibility for is coming into office at a time of dereliction and neglect under that last Government, where there has not been investment in our health services, our education services, and we are the ones fixing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b6dc5e356c423ca68e2a484744bcc0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Given that, why does she believe Air New Zealand engineers and ground staff are striking for three days just before Christmas, affecting tens and tens of thousands of Kiwis at this special time of year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274fa91ad66d2420c996e72cf7fca9ea6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That kind of action usually occurs when there is a pay and conditions dispute between employers and employees. Obviously, we as the Government have no direct role in that dispute. However, I am concerned enough by the disruption that would likely be caused that I have contacted both parties directly and conveyed my very strong hope that we will see some resolution, and I understand that they are in mediation as we speak. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae5ebc35d82459f8daf54fd29f965b2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the reason for the strike that her Government\u2019s pro-union stance and union laws have emboldened unions\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39ebf70555f49909c7b1340aeb2c366\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I am going to ask the Leader of the Opposition to ask this question again, and there will be some extra questions as a result of the whingeing and moaning from my right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd61c3f04b3c4dccb60b2e2d1d45b96a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the reason for the strike that her Government\u2019s pro-union stance and union laws have emboldened unions in every single field in New Zealand, including aviation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eee8f13c4f9241ff91a3fa27784cd221\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e686b3b72bc5452bb94d14fb09aa5f1f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the fair pay regime coming in help bring down the level of strikes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0aba39815664cc6b380f68e4482d35d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There is no ability to strike under fair pay agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3b0c1144d74ac289bbf102962c7a5a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Are there too many strikes in New Zealand today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca2e1594cd74d38ad4ff2b85b1305f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that the strike action that we experienced with the nurses was a negotiation that that Government failed to resolve and this one did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097f30c4a4894b70ac6cac621092c99d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Are there too many strikes in New Zealand today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228824f029bff44732a1debfb38420e9db\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There has been too much neglect, and it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that us coming into action midway through a failed negotiation with the nurses\u2014with teachers, we have put on the table more in one offer than that last Government put in nine years in office. We are dealing with years of discontent because of that Opposition party\u2019s lack of investment in core services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f018124bd5d847f89576550a4699ac3d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Are there too many strikes in New Zealand today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c4c1a1339474fa59defc5dfc94c1613\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There has been too much lack of investment, and we are fixing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc260e10d3b14d97acfea688305e907b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that the people who made representations on behalf of Karel Sroubek may have associations with her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce809b7e0b1443eaba911d961d05b39\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No. As I mentioned in the House yesterday and probably repeatedly last week, of course what will be in public interest is whether or not any representations were directly involving members of Parliament. As I conveyed to this House on many occasions, the Minister in charge has confirmed that no MP made any representations directly to him, and I have also mentioned that I knew nothing of this case personally until it was in the paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759cba1a682241d0bbbcebc4fb86fb81\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How will it look if members of her Government are close to those who made representations on behalf of Karel Sroubek?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226afcf09bb8174ded97b6c98eba3ce8a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, of course what\u2019s in the public interest here is if any members of Parliament made direct representations or had knowledge of those representations, and the Minister has ruled out any MP or Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a511752c5c4b9a8d889a4336e4f32b\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Listen to the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254040c144d844824ad801e2b541583af\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014conversing with him directly over this case. Of course, that\u2019s important because he\u2019s the one who made this decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a8429ab4a34d14b259ff4ca4c7b22e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Opposition get the representations? Will it be in 10 days, under the Official Information Act, or more proactively?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022118e64a433e1488bbf56d17fa835b091\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, an Official Information Act request is in\u2014that\u2019s the process that the Minister\u2019s currently dealing with\u2014and I see that the member has questions on notice today, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e6f8ce3b3f4a67ae70d4fa21882382\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she going to move what appears to be a Government-wide Official Information Act dump day from 21 December to Christmas, given everyone may still be here next Friday due to the Air New Zealand strikes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f8a25862ba747fe950325bf565da7b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014oh, I will allow it, but if the member follows the advice given to me from Mr Brownlee, I would have ruled it out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6a7b3d1ac94f78ad6659cee22481f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I expect Ministers to uphold the requirements set upon them by the Official Information Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c699325df14a4451847e8b3c049f1525\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00229ec7602b9f0f40698d6666924735c219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ec7602b9f0f40698d6666924735c219\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress, if any, has been made on implementing the Government\u2019s economic policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b616026a91294e1586e38518cbc4329b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b616026a91294e1586e38518cbc4329b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Considerable progress. Yesterday, I talked about the changes we have made to the legislative framework that supports our economic policies and plan. Today, I want to focus on the work we have done to help businesses and workers prepare for the changing nature of work as we transition to a new economy that is more productive, sustainable, and inclusive. The transition to a new economy represents massive opportunities and challenges. The Government has set a clear goal of a net zero carbon economy by 2050 and, importantly, a just and deliberate transition to that goal that supports communities, industries, and workers through that transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741e43fd742842dcb8d426dc179da0f7\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What specific policies has the Government progressed to support this transition? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ba1fb79ebfe46d7af4a726de1cb5310\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Just a few examples. The Future of Work tripartite forum, which brings businesses, workers, and Government together to advance polices in four key areas: just transitions, learning for life, technology, and workplace productivity. We have the Mana in Mahi programme, which is providing financial support to employers to fill the skill gaps by supporting the cost of apprenticeships for young New Zealanders who have been on the benefit for six months or more, and our fees-free scheme, which provides opportunity for post - secondary school education and training, including two years\u2019 free for trade training and apprenticeship schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8fe64a500ce49d189dde6fa92ed9aaf\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What specific outcomes have come from the Future of Work tripartite forum? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225185ca0b09d146c9acf594620df6bcdf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The forum has developed a skills shift initiative in the manufacturing sector alongside ManufacturingNZ. This brings together employers, industry training organisations, unions, and training providers to plan the workforce training needs for this important sector for the next two decades. It\u2019s this kind of forward planning that is essential if New Zealanders are to have a fair and just transition to a world of work that is being rapidly changed by new technology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022505d4842906c40a4af9af60272e13c1d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002221b497b5121744959cd330ee64ef7623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b497b5121744959cd330ee64ef7623\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226823c694ec4540ad813d77c484abe853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226823c694ec4540ad813d77c484abe853\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made and undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58223b89c15484683bcedb2a26d7ce8\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement last week that \u201CThe fees-free programme is an excellent investment \u2026 It is removing barriers, \u2026 where there are people who wouldn\u2019t have considered going on to tertiary education until they were able to access it in this way.\u201D, despite the Government having so far spent $236 million to deliver 2,400 fewer students in tertiary education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ada9fa119df413b86f23ae4382f6ec0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e7b4985ea74a3f89a53806fc8cf546\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement that this is a good investment with the president of the Careers and Transition Education Association, Warwick Foy\u2014who is the one meeting and talking with those most directly affected by the policy\u2014who says it has little influence on the decision of school leavers and didn\u2019t seem to be convincing students from poorer backgrounds to enrol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e5d9137619f4b5e9fe6a55253110166\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got great admiration for the work that Warwick Foy\u2019s done in getting alongside young people in the Taranaki area, in particular, on this particular matter. I believe that we\u2019ve got to give this scheme its full time to run its course, and at the end of 2019 and 2020, we will have seen an impact that I believe is greater than the one that we saw in the first year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022572da36777bc4722b5508ff26e69ccfc\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify this $2.8 billion policy as good value for taxpayers when Otahuhu College principal Neil Watson has described the policy as being \u201Ca large amount of money spread over students who are probably going to go to university anyhow\u201D, and universities and polytechs are reporting that they\u2019re not seeing any change in enrolment patterns? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd58c6b067cc4590986af0cbc67783ff\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I believe that this policy is one that is dedicated to sending the message to New Zealanders that in the future of work everybody needs to keep training and retraining. We don\u2019t care what background someone\u2019s from; we want them all to achieve to their potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216683139c50b413386f6c0cbc58c4d3d\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement that \u201CThis Government\u2019s approach is to ensure that expenditure is undertaken wisely and for the benefit of taxpayers,\u201D with the decision to use taxpayers\u2019 money to make a $10 million loan to a private dairy company on terms that the company have admitted are more favourable than they could have gotten elsewhere?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d93517f8084e4180f2fd0ef68de525\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is about making sure that there are opportunities all over New Zealand for people to have good, fulfilling jobs. Unlike the other side of the House, we believe that wherever you live in New Zealand, you deserve a decent shot at a decent life, and the PGF is a good part of helping that happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40bc10d5d834cd88eee5327be155a9f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is it also using expenditure wisely and for the benefit of New Zealand taxpayers to make another $10 million loan to a commercial garnet-mining operation which is 100 percent American-owned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089d5e7ef0db46eab1b3f9822c54b740\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s quite clear that members on the other side of the House don\u2019t want the West Coast economy to thrive. Well, actually, on this side of the House, we think it\u2019s time that the Government got alongside that community and the communities of Gisborne, the Far North, and Manawat\u016B-Whanganui. So by all means the National Party can trash the regions of New Zealand\u2014go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d0fdb9350d242b5a03db6e4c0932be3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00220336f8c1b2444554bfa4d3e47aec953d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220336f8c1b2444554bfa4d3e47aec953d\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How many houses built, bought, or underwritten by the KiwiBuild programme are contracted and scheduled to be ready for owner occupation by 1 July 2019, and when will the first KiwiBuild houses in Te Kauwhata be completed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc738e7bec6c49baa8f38e8b0a335a88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc738e7bec6c49baa8f38e8b0a335a88\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E To date, over 4,000 KiwiBuild homes are contracted to be built, and nearly 10,000 KiwiBuild homes are planned to be built in our large-scale developments, including at Unitec, M\u0101ngere, Porirua, and Mount Roskill. In terms of the year one target, 278 homes are contracted at this point and scheduled for completion in the 2018-19 year, with many more under negotiation. KiwiBuild staff are working closely with developers to finalise contracts, like the one we announced last week: the Wellington Co.\u2019s apartment developments in Mount Cook and Lower Hutt. We\u2019re working hard towards the targets we\u2019ve set. We knew it would be hard, and we had to start from a standing start. The first KiwiBuild homes in Te Kauwhata are expected to be completed by Christmas 2019, and available for occupation in 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d982f8fbf24a08aa894eb143c09e86\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If after being a Minister for over a year he has only been able to confirm 278 houses, can he confirm he cannot plausibly achieve his target of 1,000 houses by July next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed993a541d514b14b8ca24193b65957f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve confirmed that we\u2019ve had 4,000 KiwiBuild homes under contract and another 10,000 that will be built in the large-scale projects. I\u2019m really positive about the progress we\u2019ve made. We\u2019re doing something that no Government has done in the last 40 years, working directly with builders and developers to build affordable homes for first-home buyers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c95b48eecf475588293967518a224a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a12b142a67534e1e8a411f4d539be21e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, I don\u2019t think the member needs one. The Minister will now answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8eff72a9064ae4b00bde085ad3c374\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was in two parts. The Minister clearly addressed the first part of the question, which was how many homes had been contracted. The second part of the question related specifically to the current year. The Minister is not obliged to answer two parts of the question. If the member wants to ask two questions at once, she could ask two questions rather than have to ask a two-part question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3019ca551db488ca5575400c34ef088\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I may be wrong, but I think the Leader of the House has conflated the primary question and the supplementary that was asked. I will, just to make things absolutely clear, ask my learned colleague the Hon Judith Collins to re-ask her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e75a48d85b3f41bf875cfd2cca63ff0e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. If after being a Minister for over a year he has only been able to confirm 278 houses, can he confirm he cannot plausibly achieve his target of 1,000 houses by July next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222daf0f0782e74a798dd1b87ea6f6d383\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s never been the expectation that contracts for completion in the 2018-19 year would be signed evenly throughout the year. The construction of these homes will be more lumpy than I would have liked because, as the member knows, it takes a while to put these developments together. But we are doing everything we can to build affordable homes for first-home buyers, which is more than I can say for that party\u2019s Government over the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234f2b701eab146638377cecb35f19a11\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How long must Te Kauwhata developer keep the 10 houses already balloted on the market before they are able to offer them to buyers who are not first-home buyers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722698812e9846b5b560f0b68753253f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t believe that amount of time has been set, but I would note that the homes at Te Kauwhata are not due to be completed for nearly a year and a half. There\u2019s plenty of time to sell those homes, and the developer is very comfortable with the time frames involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6b439e3afb44bd9f2835d2d3df9713\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: If houses are sold for a price lower than the agreed underwrite price, which Crown account will this cost come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c520369382704691841cbb0c58308d2b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The underwrite for those homes is at a lower level, a lower price, than the price that they have been marketed for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022269f456c961047c2a5e4429531ff3166\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was: if that happens, which Crown account will this cost come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022875dba2403e041e5890c76a38e09e1bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it is a hypothetical, and therefore the Minister has more flexibility in answering than he might have otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ac195d4d974ce6a30e9196539816b9\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable that a Minister with access to a deep pool of official advice would contract to underwrite $2 billion worth of property off the plans and then explain that they are learning as they go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223991631587314e12aab90b277a39fcbc\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not contracting $2 billion worth of property off the plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262856bda38e2434f9f771cf3d6f8adbc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00229c281e04fd974e04bf1c7a9f112b88bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c281e04fd974e04bf1c7a9f112b88bb\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What alternatives to 1080, if any, is the Department of Conservation involved in using or researching for pest control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00223889ca4c6c37404085e8fa52cf8693fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223889ca4c6c37404085e8fa52cf8693fb\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E In 2017-18, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and the Department of Conservation provided approximately $4.8 million for research into alternatives to 1080, and I am advised that across Government, this investment increased to over $7 million in 2018-19. The Government is supporting a range of research into different compounds, including things like PAPP, which is very effective for stoats; things like sodium nitrate; microencapsulated zinc phosphate paste; and also into traps like self-resetting traps. Four of the five projects which were announced this year by Predator Free 2050 Ltd involve large-scale predator control using traps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563702fd737c4193ba458074dd646ec2\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: What are the most promising of the alternatives to 1080, and where are they being used?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d15c4147ad74a33a5bd264a61a48f81\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: The best alternative at the moment is trapping, which is already used extensively across New Zealand. The Predator Free 2050 projects in areas like Taranaki, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and Wellington rely on traps. In Waiheke, there is work there that\u2019s not going to be using any toxins. But I think some of the most effective projects that are being researched at the moment are innovative research involving things like pheromones\u2014scents\u2014to confuse predators; things like sodium nitrate; the PAPP, which is a more effective lure for species like stoats; and the work that Predator Free is doing at Lincoln to look at exclusion devices. So there is a whole range of tools which are alternatives to 1080.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022286af3765b03418a9e61736f5385ae22\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister support and see a future for 1080 alternatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322d18eac4114ec4bfed2d48a4da398e\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, but at this point in time 1080 remains a critical tool. Next year is expected to be a mast year, where forests produce a bumper crop of flowers and seeds. That will lead to a major increase in predators and a significant impact on our threatened birds. So aerial 1080 continues to be a critical tool if we are to prevent the regional extinction of k\u0101k\u0101, kiwi, and species like that, but alternative research is well under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d4499e8043e4d6dbeda07fa31e7b9c2\u0022\u003ESarah Dowie\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she instruct Predator Free New Zealand to stop looking at genetic engineering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef055d1e9bad41838d60e55bd85e6d12\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: Because there is a lot of research under way into traditional tools like trapping, better use of 1080, and alternative vertebrate toxins, and because we have not had the public consultation and the development of a public mandate for genetic engineering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a38abcc345874ce5a09d671f273ae50b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00225df2df968f5e4b668326b21cd414c6d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df2df968f5e4b668326b21cd414c6d0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he think that the purpose of transport policy is to make it easier for New Zealanders to get around quickly, efficiently, and safely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea662ebdcbf34ce1a1a2606734d1ef53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea662ebdcbf34ce1a1a2606734d1ef53\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Under the Government policy statement released in June, the purpose of transport policy is to give New Zealanders access to the things they need, like work, education, and community, a safer transport system free of death and serious injury, reduced carbon emissions, and value for money, and I agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aed110fb4b3427fb6d83e4f7b46bccf\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So if there is a range of purposes, where does making it easier for New Zealanders to get around quickly and efficiently rank in his list of priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a235436d514f93be358a21a4433f4f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member wants to think about it this way, it\u2019s really a subset of access. It\u2019s about giving New Zealanders access to the things that they need, and that often involves allowing people to move around quickly and efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fddf80707c38445ca152bd825734a4fc\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have a view on Auckland Transport\u2019s proposal to reduce speeds across the entire CBD area inside the motorway network to 30 kilometres an hour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffcb00fdace44b2bbbeaadb84d7152d5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not my role as Minister of Transport to comment on how local councils set local speed limits, but I can say that there are good reasons why one might want to set different speed limits in different places to save lives and support good urban design. While in the 1950s cities were built primarily for cars, the world has changed, and now pedestrianisation, shared spaces, and more walking and cycling are making our cities much more attractive and liveable places. Adjusting speed limits to make streets safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and scooter riders is an important part of this change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d9f31025d13478ea8eeaa3126dd051c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So is he in favour of a 30-kilometre-an-hour speed limit on Nelson Street and Hobson Street?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022528987ffdb5e4f10a00b1091534bb9a8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not my place to take a position on that, but I want to quote Shane Ellison, the chief executive of Auckland Transport, who said very recently that \u201CSetting safe speeds is one of the quickest and most effective tools we have in reducing road trauma. The public will now have their say on our safe speed proposals early next year, and for Auckland Transport to continue its work to make our streets safer for everyone.\u201D If the member is concerned about this issue, I urge him to make a submission to Auckland Council\u2019s process on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2ae316830aa45f99eac1a79b192bbbd\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he had any discussions with any Ministers about the threatened strike action at Air New Zealand that will make it more difficult for New Zealanders to get around the country before Christmas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf88ece59fb348e5b0752fc0adefdd73\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member repeat the question\u2014any discussions with whom? With any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab0ef7f3e0be426e9a8d2cfd449326ed\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: With any Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d88838ff01c45ad85e2712d5d9a5042\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cec795ac8c9840399d510f394831e2b3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1f9cedc63d34cc3bd96b04b352a3aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1f9cedc63d34cc3bd96b04b352a3aa3\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: How many workers have gone on strike so far in 2018, and does he believe it is reasonable for union workers at Air New Zealand to threaten strike action on the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd of December?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022125e83cd4b4f471582c088b0f33a3dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022125e83cd4b4f471582c088b0f33a3dd4\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) reports that so far in 2018 there have been 7,588 employees reported to have gone on strike. I have no ministerial responsibility for the second part of the question, and it is important that as Minister I don\u2019t interfere with ongoing negotiations. What I am responsible for is ensuring that the parties have every opportunity to reach a resolution, and I have made sure that that is the case. The only people who can actually resolve this are Air New Zealand and the staff they are negotiating with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df03bb820d84fbc9d3acda6549bd730\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider it reasonable for engineers at Air New Zealand, who have an average income of $115,000 and with some 170 of them having incomes in excess\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063d626531134ad9ac2642d71dd5269f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is going to ask the question without unnecessary additions. The member will start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022807ff2e07ec2486eaa54026abf7f0a96\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does he consider it reasonable for engineers at Air New Zealand to use New Zealand families and their Christmas plans as bargaining chips for their higher pay demands?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e2b02ad66940199d53d763c9721dac\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I have no real ministerial responsibility for that, but what I do say is that I have empathy for the families whose travel plans may be disrupted, and I encourage the parties to stay at the table and sort out this dispute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eef9caa29e24981810402ae0d5839d6\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister, who said earlier this year, in response to a question by the Hon Simon Bridges, \u201CI would encourage the member to have a long conversation with the likes of Air New Zealand, where, through their framework of working collectively with their employees, they have improved productivity, \u2026 health and safety, and they have a high-performance workplace.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd16a0ba2f46426199b1f03dafedc8be\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely, and I understand that high-performance engagement has not been used in this dispute\u2014perhaps it should\u2019ve been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6e74a92ea24495d96a26acb0df1dd2a\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say in response to University of Otago Professor Alan Geare, who is quoted as saying, \u201Cthe unions would have chosen to strike on these days to inflict maximum damage to the airline.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861bee607dac48ad83a0ce243544a9f0\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I would say he\u2019s entitled to his opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b7d9d1025914f269c395c03af5ef5fe\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered consulting the Rt Hon Jim Bolger for advice on inviting Air New Zealand and union representatives to his office in an attempt to resolve the stand-off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241c2fefaae6f423099d675781b75aada\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No. We have excellent processes for dealing with these disputes. I have spoken with MBIE to make sure that they have made all of those processes available to the parties to this dispute, and I encourage them to stay at the table and sort it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbc4cc2afe284309bdc35716b8838e86\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t the Minister ask the former National Party leader, who they put on the Air New Zealand board, to go and sort this thing out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e1901c43d641e5bedd3f05f7fed485\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I think the people who are at the table are best positioned to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b567d5d69c4375a48b24f3251a0649\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe it reasonable for there to have been wildcat strike action on 5 December when members of the National Party caucus abandoned their post at no notice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd231a059f144b6b99e4fa1cb8a7cf32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will now stand, withdraw, and apologise for a supplementary question he knew was out of order and disorderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241d033ec1539404a91397b8a9dec646b\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f6974f3d0a24cea9e9b2dd539b6ace2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022b59bb1f29f0e499e9a2f06bfa20a3ca8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b59bb1f29f0e499e9a2f06bfa20a3ca8\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What proposals has he seen on the future of schooling in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00220e2501d41ebc4d81b40455bfadac1bdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e2501d41ebc4d81b40455bfadac1bdf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I welcomed a report from the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools independent task force that contains bold proposals on changes to our schooling system. We set up the task force to get an independent view of the state of compulsory education in New Zealand. We asked them to look at ways that they could free up principals to lead, free up teachers to teach, and give parents the time to focus on their children\u2019s well-being and learning\u2014most importantly, putting children at the centre of everything we do. I hope that the recommendations of the task force will provoke robust and wide-ranging discussion about our schooling system\u2014what it should look like in the next 30 years. New Zealanders have until April next year to have their say on the recommendations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b717b388bb24ec48ca38d83aab96ef3\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government establish an independent task force to take a look at the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271af4804e9a5470183c0a26e2cc7a97f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been nearly 30 years since the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools reform. During that time, inequality in our education system has grown significantly, and we\u2019ve had an opportunity to work out its strengths and weaknesses. It was time to take a look at how we support equity and inclusion for all children throughout their schooling, their educational success, and how we equip all of our students in the modern world. The independent task force has provided some bold recommendations as to how we could do this, and I look forward to the discussion ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af524c423db44ceba83a5f5f15dfdb1a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022553061e5a56547c29dd7e04a53d665d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553061e5a56547c29dd7e04a53d665d5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Other than Karel Sroubek\u2019s lawyer and family members, who made representations on his behalf in respect of the deportation liability that was the subject of the Minister\u2019s decision on 19 September 2018?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd77b7e497974dc9b3a30d625f464b22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd77b7e497974dc9b3a30d625f464b22\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I can confirm that amongst the information I considered on 19 September were letters of support from family, friends, business associates, and fellow sportspeople. Alongside the letters of support were sworn statements by a private investigator and a lawyer in the Czech Republic regarding the Czech justice system in Mr Sroubek\u2019s circumstance. I do not consider it in the public interest to release the names of those who provided support or information regarding Mr Sroubek. Some have requested anonymity, and I consider it likely that naming people would expose them to unwarranted attention. None of those who made representations were known to me; none were MPs or former MPs, or MPs\u2019 partners. I am unaware if any of the people had or have links to any political party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223206dae92f9d44f09d4e2ea2f82ed6e7\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: If it\u2019s his intention to never publicly release the supporting documentations and representation letters regarding his decision, why did he indicate in answers to oral questions on 6 November that he would commit to a release \u201Cat the appropriate time\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1c452b1239b4ab38ee7d5a51348ebff\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I will release the appropriate information at the appropriate time as required by the Official Information Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272da125c0fb640db8aa2310963689bb8\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen comments by Judge Venning regarding applications for court documents concerning Karel Sroubek that said \u201CI am satisfied that the public interest in the review of Mr Antolik\u2019s deportation status being fully informed outweighs any issues of privacy particularly given the publicity concerning this matter.\u201D, and why does he think it\u2019s OK for the courts to see this public interest but not him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f414e823cfe244ffa47c51d9bc1b2353\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I will meet my obligations under the Official Information Act. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e515b668cb44c829e3335188cd38479\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f96ee4f9069d4654b985d1998eced45a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e0289ce7edc4824b7ac0cef23782da0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, the member\u2019s going to stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d8de41adc04f7096e6e231822bcee1\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f709d0f1f0749a889ecdc072d4ac4b2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281117c3e394f407393acc4a1ffc4830a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you\u2014especially the extra one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a08e60b7dd43d68b3453eb69ba1e8b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports of the Prime Minister confirming that there were no \u201Cdirect\u201D representations to him, and, if so, what indirect or informal representations were made, including from MPs\u2019 staff or supporters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aaa2abfec9346f0a98e1dabad862dbb\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a62072c4db940e2a0fb3753e49eda7f\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Did Richie Hardcore, a former martial arts champion, make representations in support of his application not to be deported?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512128b5a9ad4a1997a9c1a02753dc6f\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, I do not consider it in the public interest to name specific individuals, and I\u2019m not going to do it by a process of elimination either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223556216c2000426b825c0ed492d262db\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00225768d476168a4112930a24c0b70a7161\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225768d476168a4112930a24c0b70a7161\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What advice, if any, has he received on the potential estimated cost of implementing recommendations in the report by the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools Independent Taskforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022284f0ba233604b4ba334043236a4beec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022284f0ba233604b4ba334043236a4beec\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government only received the final task force report in the last few weeks. We asked the task force to release it and seek public submissions. Once that process is complete, detailed costings will be prepared to inform the decision-making process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299093668881d4de1b5fc70d3627d2bee\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Is he really confirming that the task force did no work on costings and that no Government agencies have given any formal view on what the proposals will cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b4f4aadfc34271a8754d06697c594f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That wasn\u2019t what the question asked. The question asked what advice I had received, rather than what officials had done working with the task force. I\u2019m not sure what costing information the officials provided to the task force. That\u2019s a matter of conversation between them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758510a455f64a03a313f851b8d164a9\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the legal status of the 2,400 boards of trustees, representing around 19,000 parents, under the task force proposals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8d9bd8087c4378a3e09cdf8aa95b01\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, under the task force proposals they\u2019d continue to be Crown entities, but that\u2019s a matter for discussion. The proposals the task force have put forward are bold and I certainly look forward to the conversation about whether or not there is acceptance that that\u2019s the right way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022321b42ec7b764ed6bc1eb64d0ae05a82\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Avondale College principal, Brent Lewis, who referred to the proposals as \u201Creal Stalinist stuff\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022543f6143325f4bc3a3b3b6ee2cd5898c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t agree with that. I do agree with Lorraine Kerr from the School Trustees Association, however, who said that an ideal outcome will be enough change to enable school boards of trustees to perform their strategic governance roles on behalf of the local community without constantly getting tied up in the compliance aspects of running the business activities of the school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225bc272f7afc4a6fa3a25d3611416448\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that under the proposals the power of parents will be significantly reduced and they will be disempowered under this model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030953363a5c40eea3579e70ca846b5e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m looking forward to hearing what parents have to say about that. One of the things that the task force found was that parents who serve on boards of trustees have often found that the job is much bigger than they thought they were taking on when they do it. They put their hands up to be involved in school governance thinking that they are there to improve the quality of the education their kids get, and then they find themselves tied up in complex legal discussions about the leaky buildings that they might have inherited from a previous administration, or a whole host of other administrative issues that they\u2019re not actually that keen to be involved with and they would much prefer someone else to be involved with so that they can focus on the job that they actually thought they were putting their hands up for. The public submissions process is an opportunity to have all of those conversations. I do acknowledge the concerns the member has raised about the importance of ensuring that parents don\u2019t feel disempowered through this process. I agree with that. I think it\u2019s incredibly important that we continue to empower parents and their involvement in their kids\u2019 education. That\u2019s one of the things that this Government will be looking at very closely as we consider the public submissions process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002201aae34a43e2430bbe0fe503a9d394a2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022efaf78d5464245a7a905cbb32faa5b53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efaf78d5464245a7a905cbb32faa5b53\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcements has he made to protect consumers and businesses from unfair commercial practices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf87f0ed85a4464d98df853b583f0297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf87f0ed85a4464d98df853b583f0297\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E On Monday, the Minister for Small Business, Stuart Nash, and I were pleased to release a discussion paper outlining options to protect consumers and businesses from unfair commercial practices and contract terms. The existing provisions of the Fair Trading Act and the Commerce Act protect consumers and businesses against a range of unfair commercial practices, but the Government wants to plug gaps in the current protections because small and medium sized business, and consumers, have highlighted issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac65f9e6b3644a583684ed2651c60a5\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What types of unfair commercial practices are of most concern?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274cdee859d14418f8e6569e5e67e0157\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: For consumers, examples of unfair practices include traders using aggressive sales tactics to sell products to vulnerable consumers, or selling products to consumers without clearly specifying the total price. For businesses, examples of unfair practices include contract terms that unreasonably shift risk on to one party of a contract, the use of extended payment terms, and businesses not complying with contract terms. I\u2019d like to thank some of the entities who have given us feedback. For example, the Food and Grocery Council have said that this is a pro-business move and that there is a need to strengthen New Zealand\u2019s business law dealing with unfair practices, and these proposals would go a long way towards achieving that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd6e2a19837841c4b695494bd148b8fc\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to address poor commercial conduct and support honest business in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951b9c32367641369d233a98da185802\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has a broad programme of work in this space. For instance, we\u2019re strengthening the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act to protect against high-cost loans and irresponsible lending, and the Government is also assessing changes made to the Fair Trading Act in 2013 to make sure they\u2019re working effectively as well. We\u2019ve also given the Commerce Commission recently the power to undertake competition studies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b691993b27554f50b84e0aa6f495b0f0\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Best Minister in the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a753e1589dd4c3ca290af6acd1d177e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: He is pretty good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222622f098a64440629bc25e47503e81d7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: High praise, Gerry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285260e4efe2f41a1a437a762eb12f46e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, shall we go to Jo Hayes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e568803fcc2e4c3db3cfea9847171f62\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Wh\u0101nau Ora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u002260484d0720154f28a9f8f37d20da9165\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260484d0720154f28a9f8f37d20da9165\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora: Does he agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement on Wh\u0101nau Ora incentive payments that \u201Cthe Minister has said he is looking at the way that some of those arrangements work with Wh\u0101nau Ora\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00228fee89b330284c37a34259e46f16eac1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fee89b330284c37a34259e46f16eac1\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I agree with the statement by our Prime Minister, including this statement in the same interview: \u201CIt was an incentive payment that the last Government set up with Wh\u0101nau Ora.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227892dfcbde224e819b91d16114ae2de9\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did RNZ report that he wasn\u2019t looking to make any changes to the contracts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f38b3203184a2a9d6fcd813384924d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume her seat. It\u2019s really important that questions start off with an area that a Minister is responsible for, and no Minister is responsible for why Radio New Zealand does anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3ebe7f52b34fffa90d5d583bc52460\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Why was he not aware of the incentive payments in Wh\u0101nau Ora contracts when first asked about it last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269837a4b6f5543459d09bdd43bc4aacb\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I was aware of the incentive mechanism in the contracts that are entered into with the commissioning agencies, as the member will be, seeing as they were released to her in the Official Information Act request I gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267793c5440a441e79c4c7f3bd0d7d5a0\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Has he made further inquiries with his colleague the Hon Willie Jackson about his involvement with the National Urban M\u0101ori Authority and the Manukau Urban M\u0101ori Authority, and any dividends he may or may not have received from incentive payments following yesterday\u2019s question in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a04fec2bee64482a935cbd557be4be3\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97fd1432a2643fbab24406043062d49\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: When was he first made aware of his colleague\u2019s administrative error as it relates to his Wh\u0101nau Ora portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ddce0dac8e04faca6a3c10f66404ad6\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t give the exact date of when I was made aware. However, I do understand that the resignation was received before my colleague the Hon Willie Jackson became a Minister, and that it took some time for the administration to catch up online. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be9b2d653d648a4ba74067c46ae0438\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Has he now received all of those facts in regards to incentive payments after his colleague Mr Jackson had said the Minister hadn\u2019t received any facts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022663e186933cb4a3aa1d3c1b3be34c1cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can the member repeat the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e4a560f6734096a7241836eafc2c2b\u0022\u003EJo Hayes\u003C/span\u003E: Has he now received all of those facts in regards to incentive payments after his colleague Mr Jackson said on One News that the Minister hadn\u2019t received all the facts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b17fc07df2447eac8e06e44d11161a\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I have always known about the incentive mechanisms in the contract. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d85cc2dbf36f4480961d050fa25a9923\u0022\u003ENew Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2051bd884e645f0baa6d56413c65bbd\u0022\u003EInstruction to Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022134fc3c4058c42fcb41e3664e010ecf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022134fc3c4058c42fcb41e3664e010ecf9\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the committee of the whole House on the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill to be able to consider and, if it thinks fit, adopt the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 184, despite Standing Order 302(3).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225ce0c9ec161f41c3800a5b0aeb544504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ce0c9ec161f41c3800a5b0aeb544504\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc9285c849c54068b8deb2705c3f55b4\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228360bc3410534f468eba2f1ac9c29ae5\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022631068a5a8ad440ca94204035297dd49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022631068a5a8ad440ca94204035297dd49\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThree months ago today, I stood in this House and described the Government of the day\u2014the Labour - New Zealand First - Green Government\u2014as being a shambles. Well, today, as sort of a quarterly update, can I say that it is now an omnishambles. Yesterday, we had a Government pass a bill allowing a defence for having marijuana on you and using it\u2014loose leaf, any form\u2014if, in fact, you\u2019ve got a chronic pain condition. What that effectively means is that it\u2019s OK to use it, but it\u2019s not OK to supply it, it\u2019s not OK to grow it, and it\u2019s not OK to get it for somebody else. That is a regime that will not work unless, of course, the police turn a totally blind eye to the carte blanche use of marijuana in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting that the Minister of Transport stood up today and said, \u201CWe\u2019re making great progress on keeping our roads safer.\u201D Well, the road toll doesn\u2019t quite tell you that. The thing he may like to know is that there are more road deaths now where people are killed by drug-impaired drivers than those who have excess alcohol on board, and this Government has just said that\u2019s OK\u2014that\u2019s OK\u2014because the police can\u2019t pull you up, the police can\u2019t prosecute you, and the police will not be around. I can tell the House that all the raids the police had on all those big marijuana crops throughout the country\u2014all off. They\u2019re not happening. They\u2019re all off. On the roadsides, if you see it growing\u2014and you will because everyone\u2019s going to be right into it, and the long acre is going to be full of it\u2014just stop and pick what you want. It\u2019s all good\u2014no problem whatsoever. That\u2019s the sort of Government we\u2019ve got: non-thinking, non-caring about the best interests of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen we heard today the contradiction between the Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety and the Prime Minister, where she has said she has personally intervened with the parties in the Air New Zealand strike, and he has gone out and said it\u2019s inappropriate for any Minister to intervene in the Air New Zealand strike. Well, what we\u2019re seeing here, of course, is a union, grossly empowered now by the Government and its new legislation that also passed yesterday, exercising the sort of position that they\u2019ve got to really inconvenience the public so that they will, I guess, manipulate some kind of positive result for themselves. Well, what this tells you is that the cloth-cap brigade are back in charge of industrial relations in New Zealand. They\u2019re all there, cloth-caps and all, making all the decisions about when the ferries are going to stop, when the buses will run\u2014and we\u2019ve seen the buses strike\u2014and now when the airlines are going to fly. So of course those ferries will be just next. This is the sort of environment where you do not get the growth in an economy sustained as the Government is claiming they\u2019re going to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there is this amazing Sroubek case\u2014so many unanswered questions. Today, the Minister responsible for allowing this ratbag to stay in the country is saying that he will not release the names of those who have been his supporters, who have put in submissions on his behalf. Well, what\u2019s the reason for that\u2014what\u2019s the reason for that? There can\u2019t be one. Well, I\u2019ll tell you what: the decision yesterday around marijuana and Sroubek are connected. Very soon, I predict the registration of \u201CSroubek Dak\u201D\u2014a new company to flood our streets with medical marijuana for all those people who have got headaches. It will be the new Panadol, no doubt about it. \u201CI don\u2019t want a Panadol; I want some Sroubek Dak.\u201D\u2014that will be the thing. The interesting thing will be to go to the New Zealand Companies Register and have a good look to see who the shareholders are in that company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat are the associations of the shareholders of that company? That\u2019s the sort of Government that we\u2019ve got at the moment. They\u2019re not letting hard-working people who come to this country to help this economy stay, but a ratbag who\u2019s going to cost us for years and years as he drags it through the courts\u2014and of course that will mean years and years of questioning to Ministers as it goes through the courts. This guy is just going to be a complete drain on our resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnd then, to top it all off, we\u2019ve got the rising rents. Well, people, the time today is not going to let me go into that whole story, but let me make it clear: when expenses of providing rental accommodation are ring-fenced for landlords, rents will rise. And that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s happening at the moment. People are not going to privately subsidise other people\u2019s accommodation in this country. And you would think the people who\u2019d know that the most are the socialists over there. Apparently, they\u2019ve forgotten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIf there\u2019s a headache\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00222e0a7e5f2e7b4afbb4e0ee4f30e7ea13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e0a7e5f2e7b4afbb4e0ee4f30e7ea13\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Despite everything that\u2019s just been said and the wind wasted in the last five minutes, this Government\u2019s had a great year\u2014it\u2019s had a fantastic year. We have a group of Ministers and MPs who\u2019ve been busy getting on with the job and building a productive and inclusive and sustainable New Zealand that we can all be proud of\u2014even those guys on the other side there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re delivering on our promises to improve housing, to lift living standards, to protect our environment, and upgrade critical transport and other facilities. We\u2019re rebuilding the hospitals, the schools, and the public services that all New Zealanders rely on and which for the previous nine years had been run down into the ground. And we\u2019re responsibly managing the Government\u2019s books. I mean, I remember the $11 billion fiscal hole that we were accused of running, and yet our finance Minister has run a fantastic surplus in his first year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re running surpluses, we\u2019re paying off debt, and we\u2019re making the sound investments we need for the future. And, on top of all this, Jacinda Ardern has been earning acclaim for the way she has been representing New Zealand on the world stage. When you go overseas and you hear people talk about our Prime Minister, saying what a wonderful job she\u2019s doing, what a wonderful example she\u2019s setting, all of New Zealand\u2014even those guys over the other side there\u2014can all be proud of our Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been a busy year, but we\u2019re just getting started. We\u2019re just getting started on our programme of change. Meanwhile, while we\u2019ve been busy getting on with the job of building a fairer and more modern New Zealand, I ask the question: what have the Opposition been busy doing? What have they been busy doing with their time and their taxpayer-funded salaries? Well, when they\u2019re not busy tearing their own party apart internally, with almost daily leaks and infighting, they\u2019ve been busy wasting taxpayers\u2019 money to try and derail the Government by bombarding our hard-working Ministers with thousands and thousands of trivial questions and information requests that serve no purpose other than to waste time. And it hasn\u2019t worked, because this Government is still going strong, and we are finishing this year very strongly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m going to give the Opposition a bit of a present\u2014it\u2019s an early Christmas present. It\u2019s something they\u2019ve been asking for all year. It\u2019s my diary, because they\u2019ve been bombarding us with requests for my diary as the Minister for M\u0101ori-Crown Relations, my diary as the Associate Minister of Education, and my diary as the Minister of Tourism, asking for the same information, just packaged in a different way and wasting a whole heap of time and energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ESo, here we go. On Monday, 6 o\u2019clock: get up, have a shower, get dressed; 6.15 a.m. have brekky, cup of tea, read the news; 7.30 a.m. get into the office; then by 8 o\u2019clock my first meeting for the day as tourism Minister looking at the package of initiatives this Government has brought in over the last year to ensure New Zealanders get the best from tourism growth. I get an update on the $8.5 million of funding we\u2019ve made available to local communities so they can better manage responsible camping in the peak season that\u2019s coming up. We also discussed an international visitors conservation and tourism levy, which is expected to raise about $400 million over five years for sustainable tourism. How much? $400 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThen, 9 o\u2019clock, the first lot of written questions from the National Party comes in for the day, asking me what Cabinet papers I\u2019ve lodged on a Saturday\u2014on a Saturday. That just shows how hard-working they think we are. Then, at 9.15\u00A0a.m., a meeting with my fellow justice sector Ministers. We discussed the benefits of a joined-up justice sector and how these benefits are being seen with a significant drop in victim statistics, a drop in crime, and a 10 percent reduction in the prison population since it peaked in March, through safe innovations to make the system more effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThen, 10 o\u2019clock, an Official Information Act (OIA) request comes in from the National Party, asking for my \u201Cdairy\u201D. My dairy! Yes, my dairy. From 1 September to 1 October they want to know about my dairy! Well, I\u2019ve never owned a dairy in my life, so I declined the OIA. My parents owned a tearooms in Kawakawa in the 1980s. Maybe they were wanting to know about my parents\u2019 tearooms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1849447b2654435a9b2a016f723a72d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1849447b2654435a9b2a016f723a72d\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, can I ask you, on behalf of the Opposition, to put the Lord\u2019s name back into the prayer, because thank God that the Minister stopped speaking then at the end of the five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8a1b9d2e4e743f7b8c1f6626543c028\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204449803764240b39f54c716b9ebc385\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ll try again. So here\u2019s the thing: there is only one thing that this country can be thankful for to Winston Peters, and it\u2019s him choosing Jacinda Ardern as the Prime Minister. Without that, Kelvin Davis could well have been Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand, and wouldn\u2019t that be a concerning, sad day. When the Opposition are asking about a dairy in there, actually, it\u2019s because every time he\u2019s released his diary, all it talks about is the lunches that he has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Opposition, I\u2019ve got to say that that was a disgraceful speech from the deputy leader of the Labour Party, because there wasn\u2019t a single thing of importance to New Zealanders that he spoke about. Up and down the country, this Government is being seen as ineffective and in a shambles. Winston Peters is about to go off to the US, but what he won\u2019t tell New Zealanders about is what the Government\u2019s position is on a UN agreement when it comes to migration. Does he and his Government accept that the United Nations have had an impact and a say when it comes to New Zealand\u2019s immigration practices or not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhat I want to go through is just a little bit of process here, because what we\u2019ve heard from the honourable Mr Peters is him not giving absolutely the detail that New Zealanders need about his involvement and the involvement of this Government. He\u2019s right that in 2016 there was a process in the United Nations where the United Nations tabled an agreement or a document that went through with all members supporting, and that was about refugees. New Zealand was not involved in the negotiation, and when it was open for signature some 50 countries did sign it; New Zealand was not one of those countries. It dealt with the refugee problem around the world, with great numbers of refugees moving towards Europe and other places. Largely, the things that were in there New Zealand could support because it was more or less in line with our refugee policy. But where we had issues was where the United Nations wanted to start telling countries of the world what they should do around migration and immigration. That document said that there should be more discussion and debate and that a compact could be negotiated that could set out some of these rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENow we jump forward to Mr Peters, who is the negotiator in chief when it comes to the United Nations compact that has just been agreed this week. On 20 February of this year, the first round of negotiations took place. On 7 March of this year, Winston Peters received a briefing on the negotiation and he was asked to sign off on New Zealand\u2019s negotiating parameters. He did that. Let me be clear: he is a negotiating Minister. On 13 July of this year, under a New Zealand First - Labour Government, that agreement was concluded. New Zealand was involved with the negotiation of it and its conclusion. Then, on 4 December, we jump forward. Winston Peters said last week that he\u2019s concerned about sovereignty and the effect this UN agreement could have on New Zealand. He said that non-binding agreements have the problem and the challenge of becoming binding over time. He denied receiving any briefings or that Cabinet had made its decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOn 10 December\u2014Monday of this week\u2014the Prime Minister tells the media that no decision has been made to support or sign this UN compact, and she\u2019s seeking legal advice. On 10 December, the UN Secretary-General put out a statement saying that the migration compact has been adopted by countries that include New Zealand, on that list, and that it is going forward. On 11 December, Winston Peters denies that it\u2019s been adopted, and on 11 December, Winston Peters tells the media that a decision around New Zealand signing off an adoption of it has been pushed out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EHere is the issue. The issue here is that this Government is not being clear with New Zealanders. I think they\u2019ve decided to sign up to this, but they\u2019ve seen that Australia and many other countries have concerns with it and have said they won\u2019t sign it, and they\u2019re not being upfront with New Zealanders. Why is that? Because Mr Peters knows that he made pledges to the New Zealand public, when in Opposition in the last campaign, around immigration and migration. The public knows that Winston Peters has made pledges over many years that he doesn\u2019t believe the UN should have a say on New Zealand policy. Here is an agreement that will actually force New Zealand to do things it may choose not to. Winston Peters is on his way to America at this moment. Mark my words, New Zealand will sign this agreement next week. It is not in the best interests of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5f0128529204708a3d519dcfcfdb4d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5f0128529204708a3d519dcfcfdb4d0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Today, I stand, along with my Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto relation Nanaia Mahuta, to support our Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto relation Simon Bridges. Simon Bridges needs support at this time and, as part of the M\u0101ori caucus and in the spirit of Christmas\u2014[Interruption] No, no, we support Simon. OK, he\u2019s at 7 percent. He\u2019s 7 percent, but he used to be 6 percent, and, you know, the way he\u2019s going, he could get to 8 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re saying\u2014the M\u0101ori caucus is saying\u2014\u201CYou hang in there, Simon Bridges. Don\u2019t buckle.\u201D I know he\u2019s got leakers at one side and Mark Mitchell is organising the other leakers, and they\u2019re cutting each other\u2019s throats, but what a leader. What a leader\u2014handsome, Brylcreem-ed. You know, there\u2019s a real future for him, so the M\u0101ori caucus want him there, right till the end, which will come\u2014well, we don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to come. But in terms of relations\u2014and Nanaia and I can\u2019t pick our relations; we can\u2019t help it\u2014we\u2019re proud of what he\u2019s doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe weren\u2019t so proud of him as a Minister. He was the most useless transport Minister in the history of transport Ministers, and we\u2019ve had to fix that. We\u2019ve got Phil Twyford fixing Auckland now\u2014fixing the infrastructure that the former, useless Minister of Transport Simon Bridges effected. So now we have the Hon Phil Twyford, who\u2019s doing the business\u2014doing the business for the people of this country\u2014because poor old Simon Bridges stuffed it all up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EHowever, his transition to the leadership has been good, despite the National Party leaks and despite National trying to cut his throat every day. Poor Simon Bridges, he can\u2019t even last question time. He\u2019s going back to his office to check his email, to check what Gerry Brownlee\u2019s been doing, and to check what the young fullas are doing. They\u2019re such a traitorous, vicious lot on the other side, unlike this side, where we\u2019re united, tight, and all together. We\u2019re all united, and we\u2019ve got a strategy going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI\u2019m so proud of this Labour Party, that\u2019s done the business over the last 12 months. I\u2019m most proud of the Families Package, where we\u2019re putting money back into Kiwis who have been suffering. Up to $75 a week is going into the pockets of New Zealanders who were starved by the last Government, which forgot about people in South Auckland and forgot about people in west Auckland and put them in homes that wouldn\u2019t have passed any day of the week. We\u2019ve now ensured from our healthy homes bill that they\u2019ve got warm homes and they\u2019ve got comfortable homes, and in our health package, we\u2019ve put billions back in\u2014$28 billion\u2014in terms of infrastructure. We\u2019ve put $28 billion into the health system, where we\u2019ve had rotting hospitals and where we\u2019ve had an infrastructure that was totally stuffed up by the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m rapt with some of the work that\u2019s been rolled out by this Government, including some of the work that the Hon Chris Hipkins\u2014I\u2019m just looking at him\u2014is doing in terms of reforming the education system. And in terms of employment, we\u2019re so happy that, finally, we are getting our nephs off the couch. We\u2019ve got a reduction in terms of NEETs from 80,000 to 70,000, so we\u2019re pulling our nephs off the couch, as Shane Jones talks about, and we\u2019re talking about more women now in employment and more M\u0101ori in employment\u2014much more than we had before. We\u2019re on the rise here, and it\u2019s all due to the investment that we\u2019re making in terms of our people in the regions and in youth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn terms of what\u2019s happening in the regions, I\u2019m so proud in terms of what we\u2019re doing with regards to He Poutama Rangatahi, where we\u2019re deciding to get behind our young people in the North, in the Tauranga area, and on the East Coast, where we\u2019re giving them an opportunity. We\u2019re absolutely supporting our young people, and who would not support Mana in Mahi? Even that useless lot on the other side, they support Mana in Mahi. Why? Because it gives an opportunity to people who never had opportunities before, and that is the difference with this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that rules for everyone. It\u2019s not just a Government that looks after their rich mates, as Gerry Brownlee and his mates have done for many, many years. It\u2019s a Government that wants an economy that can fulfil the promise and look after everyone who should be looked after: young people, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, women, the people in the disability sector\u2014the people who have been forgotten are the people that this Government supports, and I\u2019m proud to be part of it. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00228c4311afd0514da59cdc7ffa8d5fbcb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c4311afd0514da59cdc7ffa8d5fbcb5\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, Mr Speaker, can I take a moment to wish you and all members in this House a very merry Christmas. But look, what I wanted to say at the outset is that on the back of that member Willie Jackson\u2019s speech, this is one of the most shambolic Governments in our nation\u2019s history. It\u2019s a Government of spin. It\u2019s a Government of broken promises. It\u2019s a Government that is drowning in reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to talk about education, because it is getting near Christmas, and I thought I would be in the Christmas spirit for education. Firstly, I want to acknowledge that I\u2019m hoping that all members get home to their families, given that we do have the Air New Zealand strikes. While I like you, Mr Speaker, I don\u2019t want to be standing around the Christmas tree at Parliament with you; I\u2019d rather be back home with my family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut the first Christmas present that I want to acknowledge\u2014I want to acknowledge the Hon Chris Hipkins. In terms of second languages, it is a great week for New Zealand to see the dream closer for parents and students of second-language learning in our primary and intermediate schools, so thank you very much for that Christmas present, Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ECan I now acknowledge that other people have had Christmas presents this year that may not have deserved them. I want to start with tertiary students. They got the largest Christmas present you could imagine: several billion dollars. And what do we know? There has been no increase in participation. What did we find out today? Potentially $50 million was wasted in withdrawals or student failure as a result of this fees-free policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe next Christmas present that we had this year was teacher strikes. Despite having billions more cash, there have been three offers rejected in primary and several offers rejected in secondary, and so what we know is that teachers are facing a more uncertain Christmas because we are staring down the barrel next year of multiple strikes, despite the Government having a whole lot of choices that National didn\u2019t have due to the global financial crisis and the Canterbury earthquakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what is the Ministry of Education\u2019s gift this year? What is their present? Their present has to be drowning in reviews. There are more than 19 reviews in education, so my hope is that next year the gift that the Minister can give is certainty in many of these areas, because people want to get on with the job in education rather than be drowning in reviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe next gift that we heard of this year was to the partnership schools in New Zealand. Their gift, despite doing huge amounts of great work for disadvantaged students\u2014we heard from Sir Toby Curtis, we heard from Dame Iritana, and we heard from the giants in M\u0101ori education how we should keep these schools. Their gift was to be disestablished and closed down despite doing huge amounts of great work for disadvantaged children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo my message to the Government is: on the back of billions of dollars of extra cash, stop prioritising tertiary students and start to focus on teachers and ensuring that you deliver the 19-odd promises that at the moment people are seeing as broken\u2014like your commitments around donations, like your other commitments around modernising buildings, and like your commitments to making sure that we don\u2019t have continued and multiple strikes all next year. The gift that this Government could give next year in education, instead of spending a year dismantling everything that National has done\u2014from communities of online learning to cohort entry, to national standards, to partnership schools. Next year would be a year where we could come together and agree on some common priorities in education. That would be a great gift for our country. That would be something that parents would welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m on parents, it is important to mention the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools review. The reality is that while National sees some good stuff in that review and we are not arguing for the status quo, we are deeply concerned about not only the stripping away of power from parents in our education system but also the stripping away of principals and teachers, and that\u2019s not a great gift in terms of Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo I say again that the challenge and the opportunity for next year is to not have an ideological year where people are put through huge amounts of disruption, where students are prioritised over teachers, and where the schools of disadvantaged children who are getting a huge chance in life are closed down. The opportunity is to work together for a greater education system, one where we can agree on some common priorities, and that would be the greatest gift that we could give parents, boards of trustees, teachers, principals, and all of those hard-working support staff and volunteers in our schools next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58fa057651b418c95e033949e626f14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58fa057651b418c95e033949e626f14\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Normally I relish the opportunity to stand up and rebut the contributions from the Opposition members, but I think the contributions today speak more eloquently about the lack of contribution, the lack of depth, and the lack of understanding about what this Government is about and what we\u2019re actually achieving than it does about the thought that they\u2019ve put into their own contributions. So perhaps it\u2019s apt to speak about Alice in Wonderland. I look into the eyes of the Opposition members over there, and I can see\u2014I can see right now\u2014how they must feel like Alice as she tumbled down that rabbit hole. They must feel it themselves as they tumble deeper and deeper down that hole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ENow, the problem here\u2014and this is all about timing. This is all about timing. But the problem here is I think the Leader of the Opposition went down that hole first. Right, so he\u2019s gone down, he\u2019s got nothing to hold on to, and clearly there\u2019s no support base for him amongst his own party membership let alone his caucus, and so there he is. The other problem he\u2019s got going down that hole is that there seems to be a leak filling up the hole. So now he\u2019s there. He\u2019s got his head just above water. But what I can tell you is as his caucus colleagues come tumbling down, many of them will choose to deliberately land on top of him. Ha, ha! Why will they do that? Well, they don\u2019t want to drown. They don\u2019t want to go under the water themselves. And so the leader will take the damage and be pushed under the water as the leak continues to flood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to talk about what it is that this Government has done and what this side of the House stands for since coming into Government from the last election. This is a group of people, a group of Ministers and MPs, who came in with their eyes wide open. We were not sitting there like the Opposition was at the time denying a housing crisis, for example. We were not sitting there denying that our hospitals were not safe and sound for the people who were using them. So the Opposition still don\u2019t really seem to understand that this is the real world, and on this side of the House everyone wants to get on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo while this Government protects New Zealand homeownership, for example; whilst we build new homes; whilst we celebrate\u2014I think it\u2019s tomorrow\u20141,000 graduating police officers; whilst this Government works to save Auckland from stifling and suffocating under its own weight, and I use the example of Aucklanders spending a month in traffic every year\u2014every year\u2014and then a billion of lost productivity every year in Auckland; that\u2019s what they were happy to continue with on that side of the House, but we can\u2019t let that continue. Whilst we work with our provinces and rural communities to grow and thrive in the regions and to grow their dignities again, whilst this Government works to make our hospitals safe and sound again and to do the same in our schools, in our classrooms, and, as Minister Davis alluded to in his contribution, to build infrastructure for the ever growing and amazing tourism market, the Opposition sits on the other side of the House, moans and cries, and does nothing but use illogical arguments to say that we\u2019re not doing our job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee looks at me confused. Mr Brownlee is an example: just today, in his contribution in the House, he spoke about the undermining of the rental market and how no one\u2019s going to want to own a rental property because of what this Government\u2019s doing. And then, in the same breath, he talks about how rents are going to go up. Well, how is that not good for owners of rental properties? Come on, make an argument and stick to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EOn the other side of the House, the Leader of the Opposition and the finance spokesperson can\u2019t agree whether it\u2019s the Opposition\u2019s good work from the previous Government with the economy now or whether it\u2019s this Government\u2019s run. There are just contradictory statements all the time, and I can\u2019t believe I\u2019ve already got out of time. This is a Government that\u2019s doing great work, and I\u2019m incredibly proud to be part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00222cefefe17e424194b6747b8a0bb7ef36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cefefe17e424194b6747b8a0bb7ef36\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think I\u2019ve got to differ from my colleague the Hon Gerry Brownlee when he talked about this Government being chaotic. It\u2019s shambolic, even. What worries me about this Labour - New Zealand First Government is, in certain areas, the deafening silence of nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to say before I start out is that I do like the Hon Jenny Salesa, and I think she\u2019s a well-intentioned Minister, but I am increasingly getting concerned about what is happening in the building and construction industry. It is a very vital part of it, and of course we want KiwiBuild to succeed; we want to see houses being built in New Zealand. But, unfortunately, I\u2019m reminded of that Texas saying with regard to Mr Twyford\u2014unfortunately, it\u2019s \u201CAll hat and no cattle.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe lack of progress in KiwiBuild is a real issue, and if you go to the KiwiBuild internet site, what it actually says they\u2019ve achieved so far is 33 completed homes and 77 homes being under construction now\u2014a bit different from what we heard earlier in question time today. But, by this time, by the end of December, they are meant to have built 500 homes, using his own target\u2014500, and they\u2019ve only completed 33. The Minister for Building and Construction\u2019s role is closely aligned to that of, obviously, the housing industry, but, unfortunately, we have a Minister asleep at the wheel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhen I go around conferences and talk to those builders who are actually building something, the issues in this industry are blindingly obvious, and I think the most important one is the issue around skills. It\u2019s a large industry\u2014250,000 people\u2014and what worries me is that in the time this Government has been in power there has only been a net increase of just over 3,000 people involved in training in the building and construction sector. I think that\u2019s a worry. The Minister said that is her prime role; she\u2019s convened this great big working party of, I think, seven Ministers. They had a lovely photo opportunity a couple of months ago\u2014all these Ministers in hard hats\u2014but, unfortunately, I want to know when we\u2019re going to see some more people come into this industry. Soon, I hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other thing is that when you talk to builders, they talk about the issue of consenting, the lack of site inspectors, and the time it takes to issue codes of compliance. It is the bane of their lives. Many councils are slow to process consents, the cost of consents is increasing, and the delay of getting inspectors on site\u2014just things you hear all the time. But what do we hear from this Minister? Zip\u2014zip. And that is also another worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third issue is about the non-conforming products that are flooding into this market. We need innovation, but these products are coming in that don\u2019t meet New Zealand standards, are often sold on the internet, and the current cost of them is estimated at between $100 million and $230 million because they have a long-tail liability to them. And what is the issue with CodeMark? We\u2019ve seen the issue around the aluminium composite panels earlier this year. I was concerned. I questioned the Minister back in June. What she said to me\u2014this issue about this product, which affects the safety of buildings\u2014she said it was an operational matter\u2014an operational matter\u2014not one for her to be concerned about. But I am worried about it. Finally, we\u2019ve seen a little bit of action, but we\u2019ve still got a CodeMark system with only six people involved, although one has currently been deregistered. And 50 percent of those consents have all been undertaken by one Australian-based certifier. I am concerned that we\u2019re not making progress on that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last one I want to talk about is subcontractor arrangements. We\u2019ve seen the recent failure of Ebert Construction. The Minister has been absolutely silent on this issue. She needs to be protecting subcontractors. Those are four issues in the building and construction sector, and I\u2019m increasingly coming to the view that the Minister for Building and Construction is following the lead of the Prime Minister when she is just saying I hope that something is going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220409b39d009c42c1aad1c9efddc79b1b\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad7b88b8639b4962a10f76ee11f4c4fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad7b88b8639b4962a10f76ee11f4c4fd\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY SPEAKER (Jenny Marcroft)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227526314293ec456292759c353579219c\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m only joking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022376ec15f9e3842948bd3ed47cfc325e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022376ec15f9e3842948bd3ed47cfc325e1\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare\u2014very nice to see you sitting in the seat there. It\u2019s a real pleasure to take a call in this general debate, because so many good things have happened lately. I know that the many people listening and watching this debate\u2014and my parents, up there in the gallery\u2014will be hugely surprised to hear of all the good stuff that this Government has done in its very first year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWith our focus on supporting the well-being of all New Zealanders, we started this year with the announcement of the Families Package in December 2017. This package was rolled out on 1 July. It\u2019s making a huge difference to people because it\u2019s also our response to child poverty, and, after nine years of neglect, this is really overdue. We\u2019re getting on with the job, and we are making a real difference. The Families Package is lifting the income of 350,000 families. What it does is it lifts out of poverty 64,000 children, 26,000 more families are now eligible for Working for Families, and we have 384,000 families with children that are, basically, better off by $75 a week, on average, and this is amounting to the largest income boost that we\u2019ve seen in a decade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOn top of that, we\u2019ve also had the winter energy payment, which is warming an extra 1 million people during the winter months. It\u2019s helping people that either are on benefits or are having to make do on super with their bills to heat their homes, because what this Government doesn\u2019t do is it does not accept that we have people in New Zealand that are getting sick and ending up in hospital because they are living in cold, damp houses. We are making sure that renters are getting a fair go with our Healthy Homes Guarantee Act, which is starting in July 2019. This Act will require landlords to ensure that there are minimum standards for insulation and heating, because people need warm, dry places to live in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThey also need affordable homes, and this is something else that we\u2019ve been doing. We are bringing property speculation to a halt. We\u2019ve stopped the State house sell-off and we\u2019re helping young Kiwi families to get into their first homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve also done from today is we\u2019ve removed the letting fees to make life better for renters. Over these summer months, when a lot of people are looking for different homes, tenants won\u2019t have to worry about the pressure of having to come up with all that money, and this will make a huge difference for families that are currently struggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also lifted the minimum wage. That started in April this year. We lifted it to $16.50, and that is a start to making some improvements to their struggles. But what is going to make a real difference are the changes that this Government has made to the Employment Relations Act. Only last week it was passed, the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, or, as my colleague\u2014fabulous colleague\u2014the Hon Clare Curran likes to refer to it, the \u201CFairness Bill\u201D. That is quite appropriate, because that\u2019s exactly what it does. It brings fairness, respect, and dignity to the workplace. So what this new Act will do is it will do simple changes like giving working people a break during their working day, but it also has a very important change in it with regard to collective bargaining towards higher wages for working people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, of course we know that rents and mortgages are astronomically high at the moment, but wages have not kept up with rising costs. Over the years, we\u2019ve seen a decreasing share of the economy go to working people and their families, and we\u2019ve seen a common theme amongst low-wage workers where they can\u2019t provide for their families. They can\u2019t afford to make ends meet. We\u2019ve heard during the select committee process from families that are living off noodles, toast, and eggs in order to feed their children. It\u2019s absolutely appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EUndermining the working conditions over the last years has, basically, put us in a race to the bottom, and that is going to stop, because pay rates can\u2019t stay low while the economy does well. Now, the evidence is really clear that the best way to get a pay rise is actually through collective bargaining, and the stats are really clear on this. [Holds up chart] People on collective agreements\u2014that\u2019s the lines in blue\u2014are twice as likely to get a pay increase as the people on the green lines, which are the individual agreements. So, once again, it pays to be with a union because virtually all jobs in collective agreements\u2014virtually all jobs that are with unions\u2014are getting a pay increase. It\u2019s really good to see union membership is up, from 381,500 to 411,500. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWe are very proud of this coalition Government, which is doing so much for this country and for working people. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd1f2b4747a84d8bb469de1ac4928894\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd1f2b4747a84d8bb469de1ac4928894\u0022\u003EJO HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It would be fair to say that taxpayers\u2019 money is supposed to be used to support the people of New Zealand with the provision of services that care for the oranga, or the well-being, of its population. It would also be fair to say that taxpayers\u2019 money should not be used for the purpose of paying a dividend or a cash payment to shareholders; that is reserved for profit-making private businesses, not for organisations that are all about people. Wh\u0101nau Ora is not a private profit-making business. It never has been; it never will be. It is a great initiative, yet here I stand today ashamed that a Government agency has allowed this to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI\u2019m shocked that the Minister has allowed it to happen again, because in this year\u2019s financial annual report the dividend is to the tune of $988,000. I\u2019m stunned because the very Wh\u0101nau Ora providers that work on the smell of an oily rag are denied access to these funds. I\u2019m actually speechless that a Government organisation can tell me that commissioning agencies can do what they like with any surpluses as long as they have made and completed their contractual obligations and/or outcomes. What I want to know is: why hasn\u2019t the Minister intervened? I think it is quite a cheek when the Minister says on Radio New Zealand that the ability to pay dividends was in the contract and the contract was going to go for two years, yet there was no commitment to intervene. It needs to be intervened on by this Minister, and I\u2019m really surprised that the Prime Minister has not called the Minister into her office, demanding that he fix this now\u2014right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThis also brings to mind the various conflicts of interest. As we know, the Hon Willie Jackson, who became a Minister after the 2017 election, saw his former organisation benefit from dividends paid in the 2017 report and the 2018 report. Yet nothing was said and he only resigned his trustee role with these authorities in February of this year. It\u2019s not good enough. I want to know why the Prime Minister hasn\u2019t also asked Minister Jackson to come into her office and please explain. I think, actually, that the most amazing part of the whole Wh\u0101nau Ora commissioning agency rort is that, when I asked Te Puni K\u014Dkiri if Wh\u0101nau Ora was best placed with them, they said, \u201CYes, it is.\u201D, because they have all the connections. I think that is a long, long, long bow to draw for that organisation to say that, especially with what has been revealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ETo me, this whole thing smacks of underhanded deceit. Heads need to roll\u2014the heads of those who knew it was wrong yet let it happen, heads who had the power to intervene and stood by and have done nothing, heads who say they are best placed to do this work yet failed in their duty to keep Wh\u0101nau Ora safe\u2014and that is the main, main crux of my speech today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI would like to advise the Minister to be careful on what he actually responds to when I ask him the questions, because the whole population is judging. They\u2019re standing and they\u2019re judging. I can say that this whole business stinks. It stinks because of an inexperienced Minister who is not across his portfolio, let alone the conflicts of his colleagues. I think Minister Henare and Minister Jackson have both let M\u0101ori down, the very people who put them into Parliament this year. I want to say that I cannot see how both of those Ministers can espouse Wh\u0101nau Ora when they have both failed in their duties to M\u0101ori. It would be safe to say that Ministers Henare and Jackson are both now on notice from this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI also want to add to the debate today that I\u2019m asking the Minister: where is the Wh\u0101nau Ora review? We have waited all year for this. We were told it was going to be here in November; then Te Puni K\u014Dkiri said they had given the report, the draft report, to the Minister on 1 October. It is nearly the end of December, we are only a few days away from rising, and we still have not received the Wh\u0101nau Ora report. There are providers out there who are sitting on the edge of their seats wanting to know whether their contracts are going to be safe, and nothing has come out. I ask the Minister to give us that Wh\u0101nau Ora report. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022339802bbd1d542e5aeaa9fe389d3de41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022339802bbd1d542e5aeaa9fe389d3de41\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s with a bit of a heavy heart that I rise in this House again to talk about the issue of violence against women and children in our country, but this is a conversation we are having as a country at the moment, and I believe it\u2019s an important conversation to keep having in this House. One in three women in this country are likely to experience violence from the person that is supposed to love them. We know there were 121,000 family violence call-outs in the last year to the police, and that\u2019s one every four minutes; that between 2009 and 2015, 92 women and 56 children were murdered in this country; and that those involving partners\u2014for 98 percent of those women, there was a recorded history of abuse by a male partner. We knew that they were being hurt, and we failed them. In the deaths of children where a man was convicted, in 77 percent of those cases, there was also a history of that man abusing his female partner. We didn\u2019t intervene, and we failed those children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EEvery single person in this country has a born right to live free from fear and violence, but we have to face up to the fact that that is just not a reality for too many of our women and children in this country\u2014and some men as well, but it is mostly our women and children. We have to do better by them, and it\u2019s going to take all of us in this House and in our communities to make that difference. Every year, there\u2019s a campaign of 16 days of action to end violence against women between November and December, and this year, in this country that, in some ways, is a village, two women were murdered just during those 16 days. We don\u2019t know how many other women died without being directly murdered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI am proud to be in this Government, to have the position in this Government to focus our efforts on ending this violence, for restoring our faith in each other and our ability to do something about this. I am proud that within our first year in Government, this Government has created that position and has increased funding for front-line services by 30 percent to ensure, through New Zealand First and Labour\u2019s coalition agreement, to make sure that those services are able to respond. We\u2019ve passed three pieces of legislation: a world-leading domestic violence victims\u2019 protection bill and workplace protections that other countries are now coming to us asking us for advice on how they might do it; protection against forced marriage of children, that was initiated by the National Party and supported unanimously by this House; and a transformational change to our family violence legislation, involving new offences that have already come into force, including strangulation, which, already, from 3 December, we\u2019ve had 26 charges on that one offence. We are making a difference\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdda67ba457545948663b167414dea83\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Wow\u201426?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084284bcc3744dfe856dba9978c900ea\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-six already\u2014this is happening, and this is us responding and engaging. We have set up a Family Court rewrite to actually make sure that that system is working to protect and ensure the support and the safety of our women and children. And we\u2019ve set up a whole-of-Government response, a new way of working in Government that for the first time ever will have the Government held accountable by the Opposition for our actions on family and sexual violence, which has never happened. We are committed to turning this around and look forward to the help of other New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32a1b35ba4f44bc8bf5d42c0ddbc39b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32a1b35ba4f44bc8bf5d42c0ddbc39b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call in this general debate. I\u2019d like to go back to the theme that we have been talking about, which is the omnishambles of this Government. This week, the Government has reached 200 reviews, working groups, and all sorts of other types of groups of people having a look and doing their policy work on it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffa93fd1f76548a48920f071feadb2ea\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc38ce09b0e498d9b24167bc0460ff8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it\u2019s true\u2014it\u2019s not true, sorry; it is not true. It\u2019s actually 201\u2014it\u2019s 201. That\u2019s right. It\u2019s 201, because yesterday the Government passed legislation to set up a working group to put in place the marijuana regulations for medicinal cannabis. So it\u2019s 201\u2014thank you for the correction, Mr McAnulty. I really do appreciate it. And what\u2019s the cost of that? It\u2019s $279 million, wasted by this Government; $279 million\u2014that\u2019s almost $1 million every single day that this Government has been in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis afternoon, I\u2019d like to talk about the fees-free fail that this Government is continuing to pursue. In education, there are 19 reviews. About 10 percent of the reviews are being done in the tertiary sector, but one area that this Government decided to implement policy without a review\u2014about the only area, I think\u2014is the fees-free policy. Yes, they implemented the fees-free policy without undertaking a working group or a review or something else before setting it up, and what an omnishambles of a policy that has been. This policy was meant to increase student participation and enrolments at our universities. It was meant to increase the number of people who were going to university, going into tertiary qualifications and trades. It was meant to make a positive difference to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at some of the results which we\u2019ve seen from this $2.8 billion policy\u2014$2.8 billion, and here\u2019s the results: 2,500 fewer students studying at university\u2014yes, 2,500 fewer students studying at our universities\u20141,188 fewer at our w\u0101nanga, 674 fewer at our private training establishments, and 4,740 fewer students undergoing industry training\u20144,740 fewer people undergoing industry training at a time when we have a construction boom here in New Zealand\u2014all at a cost of $2.8 billion. So we have thousands and thousands fewer students going to university, going to study, and going into industry training, and yet the Government continues to dogmatically pursue a policy which they failed to think about before they implemented at the end of last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd what did we learn at select committee earlier today? Fifty-three million dollars has been wasted. The Tertiary Education Commission was before the select committee, and we\u2019ve learnt that this policy\u2014at least $53 million of it has been wasted just in this last year. Thirty-five million dollars from the cost of students who took up fees-free but have failed, and $18 million from the cost of those who have reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThere are 2,619 students who successfully enrolled in fees-free and then have decided to unenrol and withdrew from their studies part way through the year. That has cost the taxpayer $18 million over the last year. And there\u2019s a good question from my colleague Andrew Bayly: how many houses could you build with that sort of money? How many houses could you build with $50 million\u2014probably a few more than what they have built. The 33 that they\u2019ve managed to build\u2014that\u2019s over $1 million per house. I\u2019m sure Andrew Bayly\u2019s got some better housing policies than our friend the Hon Phil Twyford and his pipe dream of houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThen we have the number of students who have filed false declarations in order to receive fees-free: 246 learners filed false declarations in order to receive fees-free this past year. Well, that\u2019s the 246 which have been found out and caught. The Tertiary Education Commission said there may be others; there may have been others. So that\u2019s only the ones which have been caught, and I just want to applaud the work of the Tertiary Education Commission in actually undertaking that serious review and making sure that they catch as many as possible and the good work that they\u2019re doing there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis is a Government which is wasting taxpayers\u2019 money left, left, and left. They\u2019re wasting taxpayers\u2019 money everywhere, and, on top of that, we\u2019ve seen the constant reviews, the constant omnishambles, and if there was one policy that should have had a review it should be this one\u2014the fees-free.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220482947130634b33a3a42217445373d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220482947130634b33a3a42217445373d3\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E When Gerry Brownlee got up at the beginning of this debate and said he was introducing a new word\u2014\u201Comnishambles\u201D, which, actually, I\u2019ve heard lots of times before\u2014I thought he was talking about the National Party because it\u2019s been a long time since that party, that caucus, has had to do any real thinking, and the National Party, that Opposition, is all over the place. So I\u2019m going to introduce a new phrase this afternoon and that\u2019s called \u201Ccognitive dissonance\u201D, which is, really, that they can\u2019t work out what they think. Are they liberal or are they conservative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EAre they liberal? Last week, they staged a walkout and then, hours later, they voted against the Employment Relations Amendment Bill, which will stop employers from being able to dock the pay of workers\u2014stop employers, and they walked out but they voted against the bill. So it\u2019s one rule for them and another rule for everyone else. Or are they conservative? This week, Simon Bridges described the medicinal marijuana law as decriminalisation by stealth. I\u2019d note that this bill sets up a statutory defence to allow those who are close to death in palliative care to consume illicit marijuana with a legal defence if prosecuted. But Simon Bridges believes it\u2019s a slippery slope resulting in big chunks of people smoking dope outside schools with the police unable to do anything about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat reminded me of my seventh form year and the dire warnings of my then principal, Sister Ambrose, whom I describe as a bit of a militant nun, warning us as seventh formers of the perils of burning incense, which led to going to boys\u2019 flats, taking drugs, having sex, and ending up at the venereal disease (VD) clinic! But that wasn\u2019t the worst thing. I don\u2019t know if everyone knows what VD is\u2014I think we all can guess\u2014but that wasn\u2019t the worst bit: the worst bit was ending up at the VD clinic in your school uniform! That was the heinous sin! These days we\u2019d be encouraging a visit to the health clinic or the GP if you had a sexually transmitted disease and making sure that you were provided with good information about safe sex, and that\u2019s the approach that most schools would take and, no doubt, parents. But, to my mind, Simon Bridges is stuck somewhere in the 1970s and keeping up appearances rather than addressing the core issues, such as pain relief and quality of life left for the terminally ill and the chronically sick\u2014Mr Cognitive Dissonance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI recognise the phase that the National Party is going through, because we were there, and my advice is: dig in. It doesn\u2019t get any easier. Do the genuine work on policy and try\u2014and this is a message to the backbenches, to the newbies\u2014to stay out of the nasty cliques, and no matter what happens to you, your own sense of dignity and self-respect is actually what really matters. Senior MPs set the tone for the behaviour of the newbies. They come in bright-eyed and bushy-tailed mostly and they want to make change happen, but they get caught up in the place. There is a dark side to politics, and don\u2019t let yourself be dragged there. That\u2019s my advice to you. Don\u2019t\u2014not just because I\u2019m giving you that advice, but because your constituents don\u2019t like it, and the public don\u2019t like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is cohesive, strong, collegial, and it does know what it stands for. It stands for a better life, for more opportunities for New Zealanders, and we\u2019re getting on with it. Of all of the things that we have done\u2014and I could read you a big long list; I know others have gone through a lot of those things\u2014three things stand out for me: the winter energy payment, which has made a real difference; extending the royal commission on the abuse of children in State care to faith institutions\u2014a huge difference; and the culture and attitude change that I\u2019m seeing, and that my constituents are seeing, in Work and Income staff treating people with respect and care. I thank the Minister for Social Development and the Prime Minister for that; 2019 will be the year of well-being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b868c4bc06a46fa96c992986c78c947\u0022\u003ETasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea28018fc7d342cd9ccda9198de8da00\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022385b390fb6cb4383a6cb43a2e3fabefa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022385b390fb6cb4383a6cb43a2e3fabefa\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I seek the leave of the committee for the seven clauses to be taken as one question with one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6db8422558f4f91b8bd900c38b69d63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6db8422558f4f91b8bd900c38b69d63\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e9c47b99f4548dcb9b67b3d295b806b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 7 and schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c1f9e9fc99f24eedbc0169d3a9e679f7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 7 and the schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 7 and schedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000298\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000299\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000300\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d5625070105424a8c6719ea85203f01\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7824d1acd884beea4a46995bbbab6f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7824d1acd884beea4a46995bbbab6f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis bill is the last piece of a complex jigsaw puzzle to enable the Waimea community dam to be built, and I note it will be the largest dam built in New Zealand in more than 20 years. It will enable the storing of 13 million cubic metres of water in an 87-hectare reservoir, stretching 5 kilometres up the Lee Valley, 20 kilometres south-east of Brightwater. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere have been so many challenges in getting any sort of water infrastructure project over the line that very few make it off the drawing board. There are the complex issues of getting through the Resource Management Act and getting consents and, subsequently, dealing with any appeals that occurred back in 2004. There\u2019s the tremendously challenging job of trying to get the funding for such projects\u2014in this case, over $100 million worth\u2014for a scheme to happen. The third key issue that needs to be resolved for such schemes is getting access to the required land. It is a tribute to so many people that all those hurdles have been passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, this bill deals solely with the issue of enabling access to 9.7 hectares of public conservation land for the reservoir and 1.3 hectares of Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) riverbed. It\u2019s not a complex bill. It creates an easement over the Mount Richmond Forest Park for the reservoir; it enables the council to be able to purchase the 1.4 hectares of LINZ land. The bill has two important caveats. It says that the council cannot sell the land, and, importantly, I acknowledge our parliamentary colleague Rino Tirikatene, in terms of ensuring that the three Te Tau Ihu settlements in the top of the South and their first rights of refusal are respected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThree changes were made to this bill by the Governance and Administration Committee. Firstly, the public access provisions around the conservation land have been strengthened in response to submissions from the Federated Mountain Clubs, the Walking Access Commission, and the Nelson/Marlborough Fish and Game Council. Secondly, the bill gives a bit more time for the construction of the dam to begin, extending that from 2020 to 2025. And the right of first refusal provisions have been strengthened to ensure that whether the land is in the hands of the council, in the hands of a council-controlled organisation, or in the unusual incident that the dam does not proceed or the dam is decommissioned at any time in the future, those rights of first refusal are respected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to make a few points about the land. The first: we are talking about 9.7 hectares out of a Richmond Forest Park that is 166,000 hectares. It\u2019s not 1 percent, it\u2019s not 0.1 percent; it\u2019s not even enough to make 0.01 percent. Nor is this land some precious one of those 14 different types of reserves. This is not an ecological scientific reserve. It is not national park. I would take a very different view on this bill if it was proposed in a precious area like the Abel Tasman National Park or Fiordland. It\u2019s interesting to note that there is no record by the Department of Conservation (DOC) of this area being used for any purpose of recreation, giving an indication of how remote and inaccessible it is. I also, importantly, note that the Environment Court orders made in August 2014 with the agreement of DOC, with the agreement of Forest \u0026amp; Bird, and with the agreement of Fish \u0026amp; Game provided for the inundation of this land. If I can put it very simply, the small loss of the forest park is more than compensated for by the opportunity this scheme presents to be able to restore the health of the Waimea River.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESome years ago, as Minister, I was responsible for putting in place a national policy statement that requires minimum flows in rivers and which also provides for water quality standards for New Zealand rivers and lakes for the first time. This project is the only practical way to meet those water quality standards, and I\u2019m proud to represent a region that, with the introduction of the scheme, will be one of the very first regions in New Zealand to fully meet the requirements of those new water standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I do acknowledge there are some critics, including the Green Party in this House and others, who have said, \u201CWell, the easy way to resolve the problems with the Waimea River is to cut back the existing water consents that have been provided by the Tasman and Nelson councils for town water supply that has been provided for irrigators and has been provided for industry.\u201D People that propose that scale of cuts have no practical idea as to the level of impact that would have on local residents and on the regional economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI hear speeches all the time from parliamentarians across the House saying that we should process more of our wood products. Processing wood products takes water. Not proceeding with this dam would be devastating for one of New Zealand\u2019s biggest and most successful wood processors, in the form of Nelson Pine Industries. It would be equally devastating if we went down that road of cutting water takes for Nelson\u2019s horticultural industries, whether it be our apples, our grapes, our kiwifruit, our hops, or our berry fruit. So many people, again, give speeches in this House that they want to see New Zealand diversify its primary exports, and this dam and this water scheme is a mechanism to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECan I also draw members\u2019 attention to the issues around housing. In my time as the member of Parliament for this region, the number of people living on the Waimea Plains has expanded, doubled, from 10,000 to 20,000 people. We need more houses to be built, but you cannot build more homes unless you have the water infrastructure to support them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, if you want clean water, if you want more added-value processing, if you want to grow exports like horticulture, or if you want more houses, you need more water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECan I also make the point that for neither Nelson nor New Zealand do we have a water shortage issue. That is, we only use 2 percent of the rainfall that falls on this country for extractive purposes. That is one of the lowest levels of anywhere in the world. Many countries use 30 percent; some use 60 percent. The issue for New Zealand is that we have shortages in quite distinct areas at quite specific times of the year. What could be simpler than storing some of those massive winter flows of water, retaining that water, and enabling it to be able to be used in the time of drought and dry period? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Crown Irrigation scheme established by David Carter, supported by Nathan Guy, which has been critical, as well as the staff of Crown Irrigation Investments Ltd, and the Freshwater Improvement Fund for their financial support. I want to acknowledge the Hon David Parker and Minister Shane Jones for honouring the previous commitments by the previous National Government to the scheme. I want to acknowledge Richard Kempthorne, the Mayor of Tasman District; the councillors that supported this project; and a big team of staff at the Tasman District Council\u2014dedicated people like Dennis Bush-King and Joseph Thomas, who have worked on these issues for many, many years. I also want to acknowledge the contribution from the Nelson City Council and the huge contribution that has been made by irrigators and landowners in the Waimea area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis project has its genesis in the awful drought that afflicted the Nelson region back in 2001. A collaborative group was established at this time, and the work of organisations like the councils, like the Department of Conservation, like iwi, and like the landowners in that area brings us to this concluding point. Can I again thank the many MPs from National\u2014my colleagues\u2014Labour, New Zealand First, and ACT, who are supporting this bill through this final stage. My hope for this project is that it not only gives water security for my home community but also provides a flagship of what is possible in terms of improving water management in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba169bff08a54070acf247c3378d39d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba169bff08a54070acf247c3378d39d0\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I, too, am very pleased to speak in support of this bill at its third reading, the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill. This bill is some 20 years in the making. There\u2019s been a lot of work that has gone on, and I do want to acknowledge the Hon Dr Nick Smith for shepherding this bill through the House and for paying the acknowledgments to all those that have been involved. We\u2019re at the last sort of phase within this parliamentary process, and, of course, it is critical that we pass this bill, because there are a lot of contractual and ongoing commitments that need to be met for it to actually get built\u2014and that\u2019s what we want to see. We want to actually see this project come to fruition and be able to service the Waimea district.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t intend to take long with my contribution today. I merely want to acknowledge the Tasman District Council, under the leadership of Mayor Richard Kempthorne, and all of his team who have been involved, working very hard with the local communities and with all the affected groups, and, I must also say, with all of the relevant iwi as well, to ensure that we can stand today in this House and speak strongly in support of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to just speak to one particular point which came through the committee stage which was raised by the Governance and Administration Committee, and that was around the iwi of Te Tau Ihu, the eight tribes of the top of the South Island, and just ensuring that they were supportive of the additional recognition of their rights of first refusal which would arise on a possible future decommissioning of the site. I can speak in this House today and say that the bill does have the support, and I acknowledge all of the iwi concerned, but, in particular, the one iwi who actually are part of the scheme, which is Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data, who are committing some of their tribal lands to the actual infrastructure project. So I\u2019m pleased that those issues were addressed with all of the iwi concerned, but, in particular, with Ng\u0101ti K\u014Data, who will have ongoing relationships with the Tasman District Council, and that will be continuing from now and well into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EReturning to what this bill is about, it is about water infrastructure. It is about storing that water and making sure that when it\u2019s needed in those dry summer months, there is water available to service the rural lands, and to service the urban communities as well. I want to acknowledge the Government and our support partners. Our Government has continued the commitment of funding through Crown Irrigation to ensure that financial facility is available to the project, likewise through the environment fund, as well, that\u2019s also committed to the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo this is really a collective effort from the people of New Zealand through the Government in terms of their contributions, and I know that we are entrusting\u2014and this project is actually being led by the Tasman District Council with the local community. It\u2019s entrusted to them to actually bring the whole project to fruition, and I certainly look forward to the day when the dam is operational, and I\u2019m sure that will be a day which many in that community who will benefit from the water infrastructure will be looking forward to as well. So with that, I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002275c38472f45643609715000f8776c2ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275c38472f45643609715000f8776c2ab\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is with great pleasure that I rise also to support the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill to the House. There are a number of people who should be acknowledged: Mayor of Tasman District Council Richard Kempthorne and his councillors, and the proponents of this dam project who have worked\u2014and that wasn\u2019t a joke, but it has been an at times lengthy and troublesome project for community leaders and proponents of the bill. I want to acknowledge also the Hon Nick Smith, who has steadfastly supported this bill and the Waimea Community Dam over the course of the last 18 or so years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EOur part in Parliament is the easy part of this process, and I want to acknowledge most of Parliament for seeing the value and the sense in providing this supporting piece of legislation, in providing for access over Crown land, and in providing easements so that the local community and the council can get on and get the job done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWhat was very apparent to us as Governance and Administration Committee members, when we travelled to Nelson to hear submissions on the dam, was that for some people there was an awful lot to gain, and for other people there was an awful lot to lose. As parliamentarians, as select committee members, our job was to listen with an open and clear mind to the evidence and to the values and concerns expressed to us, which we did. We spent a considerable amount of time listening to those voices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThose who felt they had a lot to lose\u2014their arguments were based around environmental concerns, financial concerns about the cost of this bill, whether or not security of water was in fact needed, or maybe there were other ways to achieve security of water supply. Then there were those voices who had an awful lot to lose, and it was those voices, such as those in the forestry industry, those in the horticulture industry\u2014in fact, economic development of all kinds and of every nature throughout the Waimea district\u2014and those voices we also heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIt is the measure of a community and a measure of its local authority and the proponents of a large project such as this that they have had the perseverance to keep working at this project and not give up, because a large capital project in a relatively small community is never going to be easy\u2014not in any way is it ever going to be easy. So I want to end my intervention and my support by just again acknowledging and thanking all of those people, from the community leaders to the supporters, to all of those who gave their views in support or not in support\u2014acknowledging them all. Very soon, I hope, we will be celebrating the passage of this bill, and then the dam really truly can commence. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002286ce1877f6d04f9ba0ba18d9d3f0f5ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ce1877f6d04f9ba0ba18d9d3f0f5ea\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill. It\u2019s great to see this bill proceeding so quickly through the House, as I know that there are some contracts in place in order for work to go ahead that need to be done by a certain date, and it\u2019s important that we see the quick passage of this legislation in order to reach that time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThere are some really clear economic and environmental benefits that need to be weighed up. Those have come through the submissions process and through the good advice that we\u2019ve received during the select committee process that this bill is beneficial for New Zealand and very much beneficial for those people involved in horticulture in the area on the Waimea Plains. This bill will enable a secure water supply for the local community. While it does directly affect horticulture in the form of many forms of berries that are grown on the Waimea Plains, as well as apples and other fruits, it will also ensure water supply to residential households\u2014and good quality water supply, which is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe dam will ensure increased river flow, and this will ensure that the water supply to those local households and to businesses will continue, particularly in the summer months. No doubt members will remember that the region had a very extreme drought back in 2001, known as the big dry, in which there were severe water restrictions put in place and it affected everybody in the region. So having in place this dam and having in place a scheme that will replenish those aquifers beneath the Waimea Plains will mean that there is security and protection against droughts that may well come, in the climate change age we face, more frequently in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EA secure water supply is the lifeblood of any region, so I\u2019m pleased to see that the people in Nelson and the Tasman District area can benefit from having that security and that confidence. We know that there are some clear environmental benefits with this change as well. The scheme will minimise the risk of saltwater intrusion into the aquifers along the coast\u2014so close to the sea along that way. While there are concerns that have been noted by environmentalists about the area of land being inundated by the dam, the overall health of the Waimea River and its fish life depend on a good water supply, and that\u2019s exactly what this will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt is good to see that there has been good consultation and that this is supported by the Tasman District Council. There\u2019s been consultation and compromise through the course of this piece of legislation reaching this point in time. The main area and the main point of contention has been the cost of the dam, and this has been revised in order to reach an agreement and a way forward. I will note that there are those that are still not happy with the cost that some ratepayers will bear with this process, and we heard that loud and clear through the submissions process. Affordability has been a critical issue along the way, and the new funding model represents a compromise between the parties involved, including an increased contribution by the Tasman District Council\u2019s partner in the project, Waimea Irrigators Limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to also, as my final point, flag that there\u2019s been consultation on rights of first refusal under the Treaty settlement legislation. The land that will be transferred from the Crown to the district council has rights of first refusal upon it, which were put in place under the Treaty settlement negotiations with Te Tau Ihu iwi. The land must remain under the direct or indirect control of the council until that occurs, and the riverbed land must be sold back to the Crown if the dam does not proceed or is removed for any reason, to ensure that those rights are not infringed upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELook, I would just like to say that I\u2019ve really enjoyed being a part of watching this piece of legislation come through, seeing the differing points of view from a community, and understanding the benefits of what a good water scheme can provide to a community. Labour supports this bill for the good and the well-being of the environment, for the community, and for local businesses which thrive off the security of water supply. I therefore commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022785964ac680045b295d23401623e4852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022785964ac680045b295d23401623e4852\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is with great pleasure that I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support this Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill. As we know, this is actually quite a technical bill. At its core, it\u2019s the 9.7 hectares of the Mount Richmond State Forest Park and the 1.3 hectares of Land Information New Zealand riverbed being transferred from the Crown, basically, through to the Tasman District Council for easement and for a reservoir. So that\u2019s the core of what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EBut, of course, it\u2019s much bigger than this. This is enabling legislation for a significant piece of infrastructure for the Tasman region, and I note that this has been 20 years in the making. I can only imagine what that was like to the farming leaders\u2014and I note that Julian Raine is in the building, and I\u2019m sure there are many others who are not so well known to me. Julian, of course, is very prominent in agri-business circles. Those discussions, I\u2019m sure, happened in the pack houses initially and on market day or whatever might have been the meeting places of those growers back in the day, from herding those cats\u2014those small conversations\u2014to get to this point where we are, in the Parliament of New Zealand, enabling this piece of legislation that will allow a dam to be built on the Waimea River.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, irrigation is a fairly emotive topic, but it is time that we had a more sensible discussion about irrigation in this country. This is a water-rich country. We don\u2019t have to look far across the Ditch, to our neighbours\u2014they could not dream of having the wealth of water resources that we have. The debate has got very narrow around water equals cows equals pollution. It does not, and this particular proposed scheme absolutely proves this. The 1,200 or so hectares that are to be irrigated under this are primarily horticultural land. I think there are only about two dairy farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOne of the things I learnt on the way through with this bill is that boysenberries are one of the main crops here, and that New Zealand actually produces 60 percent of the world\u2019s boysenberries, and a good proportion of those are in the Waimea Plains. That\u2019s something to be very proud of for those farmers. We certainly get that we need to do better with the nutrient budgeting, and I note that today we had a significant report on the OVERSEER model. We are working hard as a Government and, I\u2019m sure, as a Parliament to bring the tools together so that we can have irrigation and we can still have a pristine environment as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s not just the rural users; it\u2019s the urban users, both domestic and industrial, and there are some significant large employers within that Nelson/Tasman region who will benefit from the security of water from this scheme when it is up and running. As Dr Smith outlined in his contribution, this is a fast-growing urban population. It\u2019s a wonderful part of the world and will continue to grow at pace; so we\u2019re futureproofing not only the farmland but also our urban and industrial users. And, of course, there are the environmental benefits. Having the water flowing consistently and being able to have some control over that is of real benefit. We note the biodiversity offsets that have been negotiated as part of this. I think that\u2019s really visionary and leading stuff, and the sort of thing that we\u2019ll probably look to be doing in the future. I think this is a good exemplar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe Crown, of course, is extending a loan of $35 million to the farmers involved in the scheme, and I would like to emphasise that: it\u2019s a loan; it will be paid back. It\u2019s not a grant; it is a loan, and this is a multigenerational decision for the farmers, and they will recompense the Crown many times over not only with their lift in production but also with the interest bearing on the loan. Of course, there is a $7 million grant, and that was part of a freshwater grant under the previous Crown Irrigation Investments. I note, with some irony, that the Opposition are now quite vehement in their opposition to the Provincial Growth Fund, but this is exactly the same principle at play here\u2014wise investment in the regions enabling significant infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI also would like to commend the tenacity and the vision of the local political leaders, and I note Mayor Kempthorne is here today. This has been a contentious issue. We\u2019re aware of that. One of the votes did go against the dam and there was a lot of leadership involved, I would imagine, in bringing that together. I note that some of the regional leaders are here today. I commend you on that. It is not easy sometimes to step back and look at the bigger picture when you have your ratepayers, many of whom are on fixed incomes, and for them any increase in their rates is something that can\u2019t be trivialised. But you have to step back and look at the bigger picture. I think some of the rates rises are somewhere between $29 and $150 per annum. Even at the top end of that, that\u2019s $3 a week to secure this very important futureproofing piece of infrastructure for this region. This is about a 100-year vision; this is not necessarily about what the rates bill will be next year. I believe that those political leaders will be remembered fondly in the future for the leadership they have shown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, the economics of this were pretty well set out. I believe it was the Northington report that showed that, over 25 years, this could add $935 million to the Tasman/Nelson economy. That is a significant increase. Of course, it\u2019s the security of that income, too, for the $103 million, I think, it is now\u2014it might even be $105 million\u2014that the scheme cost. I think, up front, that will pay dividends year after year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019d just like to commend the member Dr Smith, the local MP for Nelson, for bringing this bill forward and shepherding it through. It will be a bit of a legacy for you, I think, in your region that you have been able to do this. I commend the Governance and Administration Committee. I know they engaged and went down to Nelson to hear the submissions. The officials\u2014as always, we\u2019re very well served in this House. This is a really good, sensible piece of legislation to enable a very important piece of infrastructure, and New Zealand First are delighted to support this through to the third reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00225ef9b722cba3488a87132543d8c99fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ef9b722cba3488a87132543d8c99fa8\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute delight to rise in support of the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill. I understand it\u2019s the 50th bill supported by the Hon Nick Smith in this Parliament. It\u2019s quite an achievement, Dr Smith. Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EJust reflecting, too, on the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Mark Patterson, waxing lyrical about irrigation and how great it was for New Zealand, and yet it is his party and his Government that has killed off the irrigation fund that this project will be the last beneficiary of. Instead, New Zealand will have to rely on the largesse of the Hon Shane Jones with his $3 billion slush fund if there are to be any more irrigation projects supported\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b01c344d8e6f4338ae97da63dad8b276\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The Greens say, \u201CNo irrigation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be7bb788445449c2b510418995c778ae\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and which the Greens, as Dr Smith notes, don\u2019t support at all. But, none the less, we absolutely support this very practical and pragmatic step for the people and region around the Tasman District.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EUltimately, this bill is about supporting the livelihoods of the people who live in the area. It\u2019s estimated that over 25 years, this dam will help to secure an additional $925 million of economic product or gross domestic product (GDP) to that area of the country. In contrast, if the dam were not to proceed, the risk to the same area is a negative loss of $1 billion in GDP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, when we talk of gross domestic product, too often it\u2019s seen as some abstract economic concept. It\u2019s not. It fundamentally equals jobs and livelihoods of people. This dam, which secures water supply for businesses and residents, is a means to providing and securing jobs for many hundreds and thousands of people who, over the course of this dam\u2019s lifespan, will benefit from the jobs that can be sustained from it. That\u2019s about opportunity for New Zealanders; the opportunity for jobs and futures, and the opportunity for them and their families to live the lives they want. By taking this step in the House today, Parliament supports those people to get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve reflected, as I\u2019ve listened to contributions, how can I help right now for this to proceed? The most effective way that I can help right now for this to proceed is to commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u002282296360e290485d8c8b19489ad64091\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282296360e290485d8c8b19489ad64091\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Look, it\u2019s always enjoyable to stand up in the House and talk on anything related to local government, so it\u2019s my\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd794b092c24460eacabe00e5bbd35f2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1244a1ffa33450baf6628519966b140\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! It\u2019s the honourable member for Hutt South. Don\u2019t get me going. I don\u2019t want to say dishonourable, because that would be dishonourable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e8e265fd034e0386392bd1fcfb1cb8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it would be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef9ae4634ee49c79373bf98c09d5ff0\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but what I do want to say is\u2014thank you, Mr Speaker. I do want to just acknowledge my colleagues on the Governance and Administration Committee. It\u2019s a pity I wasn\u2019t too attentive during these hearings because I wasn\u2019t there, but, look, I\u2019ve got a great relationship with my colleagues. It\u2019s a pretty collegial committee and probably one of the better ones. In fact, probably the best select committee, dare I say it. We talk, we debate, but we get on and we look at the things that are important to local communities. So I want to acknowledge the hard work that that committee does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThe local member for Nelson\u2014he\u2019s been there so long I thought his colleague was going to mention maybe a valedictory next week or something, but that\u2019s not the case. But I do want to just acknowledge that His Worship the Mayor is here from the mighty Tasman\u2014welcome to the capital city\u2014and other officials who put this together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ELook, I don\u2019t want to repeat what\u2019s been said. Those upstairs and on TV will be going, \u201CGod, how boring.\u201D, but I do want to just look through. It\u2019s been interesting\u2014I had a look back at the Department of Internal Affairs report and I just want to, sort of, balance up some of the views. Since I last spoke, one thing I did have is just some feedback from local people. Coming from local government, you know, you\u2019ve got to\u2014what did they say? Yes, let\u2019s get to it. I had Victoria Davis and Lewis Solomon write to me. They just wanted me to be aware and to balance up some of the submissions that were made. It was interesting. I went back though 137 submissions. Actually, 57 were in support, and they made the comment that 27 would benefit or stand to gain\u2014or \u201Cprofit\u201D was the word that was used\u201420 were neither for nor against, and 60 were opposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EMr Solomon, for example, is a qualified electrical engineer of 25 years\u2019 experience at Nelson Pine. I guess what I\u2019m really saying is that these people bring some valid concerns to the table, but, if I reflect back on my speech that I made, one of the big things that local government has to do and should do is make some bold calls. This is, I think, a bold call. Infrastructure\u2014those smaller districts sometimes find it a bit tough to get the dollars together to say we need to look at the unsexy stuff. That\u2019s generally the infrastructure, but I know\u2014and I can see a former mayor opposite me, Maureen Pugh\u2014that you\u2019ve got to make the big calls and invest wisely on things like this that will carry the district through. Maybe they\u2019ll amalgamate one day\u2014oh, God, I shouldn\u2019t mention that, but maybe for the next century they\u2019ll have core infrastructure in place that will serve their community. I guess that\u2019s the decision they\u2019ve made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EWe are certainly supporting it, and I\u2019m proud that we are, because it would be easy\u2014I know, as a former local elected member, that many a time it was the unsexy stuff that people couldn\u2019t see, they didn\u2019t want to see, and the price tag had lots of zeros in it, but, actually, you do have to make these calls and someone\u2019s got to be bold enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know if the mayor will get re-elected over this, but good luck to him next year. Local body elections are less than a year away. Good luck. I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll have a narrative and a story and a product, really, and that he\u2019ll be able to say, \u201CThis is my legacy to the district and to Te Tau Ihu\u201D\u2014the top part of the South Island\u2014\u201Cand this is good for the people.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m not going to talk too much. I know the member for Hutt South gets a bit nervous when I talk, but I just want to commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u002247716fa5afaa4102b851616937dd88aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247716fa5afaa4102b851616937dd88aa\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Throughout the whole reading of this, the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill, the Green Party remain opposed\u2014and also in this, the third reading. Actually, I consider it a duty and a responsibility to stand and raise the valid concerns and to allow those concerns from community and other groups and individuals of the community to be given a fair hearing in this House, alongside the values and the visions of the Green Party, which go to why we are opposing this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI am very, very aware\u2014and we all are in this House\u2014that water is life, and I want to acknowledge up front the water shortage issues for both people in households and also for the economy of that region. What we are disputing here is whether or not the dam is absolutely the best solution and the longest-term solution that takes everything into account accordingly. So I\u2019m happy to go through a number of the valid concerns raised from various groups and from the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI cannot stand in this third reading speech without raising the concern of costs to ratepayers that I know has been loud and strong throughout the entire passage of this bill. It was heard in submissions and it was seen in written submissions. Although I am not on the relevant select committee, I have continued to receive particular concerns about whether the cost of this will be shared equitably; about whether there are the absolute safeguards in place for any potential blowout to ratepayers that might happen and that we have seen happen on other similar schemes, both in Aotearoa and around the world; and, in fact, questioning whether council is absolutely upholding to the best of its ability its duty to ensure that the costs do not fall unfairly on residents and ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThere are several actions and processes that I have been taken through by several submitters, and I am not clear yet whether council itself is upholding the necessary full measure of checks and balances that could be put in place to at least ensure that there are fair and just benefits going back to ratepayers without the unjust actions of further costs on ratepayers; things like simple, standard business credit checks of relevant shareholders and things like having a projection of whether adverse weather events\u2014which are a feature in our world more and more\u2014or detrimental effects of a disease on a particular product, which we also are dealing with in our country, are properly planned for and accounted for. So I\u2019m really happy to raise those points in this House today as a sample of some of the valid concerns that ratepayers have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe issue of land use is paramount to this dam, and no one will be surprised that this Government has actually already, in fact, announced a wind-down to the subsidies of large-scale irrigation projects. So that there is a signal that we ourselves, as Government political parties, have identified and acknowledged that we really need to think better, deeper\u2014literally deeper; below to aquifers, below soils\u2014as to the long-term effects of large-scale irrigation and the fact that it has been shown to encourage intensification of land use. What we know from that, from decades of that way of making decisions over land and water, is that it has not gone so well for our rivers and for our water bodies and our water tables and our aquifers. So those are fair and valid concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn one sense, this is a plaster. This is actually a plaster to try and address those very real water shortages, yes, but we should also be going back a step to consider the ongoing decisions that we make about water and land use and land intensification, and whether or not this dam will encourage more of those same decisions which have dirtied up our rivers. So I raise that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EUsing conservation land for commercial purposes should always be considered to the depths and the entire strength of our risk assessments\u2014absolutely. I am aware that processes have happened through the Environment Court and that agreements have been made about biodiversity offsets, and that plans have come up\u2014I acknowledge all of that. But there is a precedent that people have raised very valid concerns around and that we must, I think\u2014to have a balanced discussion and debate\u2014make sure that we understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t know enough. There is growing acknowledgment from the scientific field and from the water community, water warriors, that we think we know\u2014and I will quote Mr Patterson, I think it was, who said that we are a water-rich country. Well, we should be, but, actually, we have made decisions over generations where now we actually need to think about whether we are that rich when it comes to water. We have paru-ed up our rivers\u2014we have dirtied our rivers\u2014and we still have New Zealand households who cannot guarantee that the water out of their taps is pure and safe enough to drink. Therefore, we have a duty to understand more about our water tables and our water aquifers, and I don\u2019t know if anyone in this House can, hand on heart, say that we know exactly how long the sustainability of our pure water aquifers really is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5e477ec0384a66931d07909bc8e8b5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: This will improve the river.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235acebc1fbc14c0990f73e4e65e3986a\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: So I\u2019m really proud, despite the heckling on that side of the House, to stand up and make a statement to that fact that we don\u2019t yet know the full strength and longevity of our aquifers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m going to be very proud to stand on here today is the fact that we need overall holistic, cohesive planning of the entire ecosystem of how we make water and land decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b879f158dca64b4db58e2965841c7fe6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What waffle\u2014just waffle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253d13651570348e2bf18a91b7d7a16d6\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: No one should be surprised that the Green Party has had to make that statement, and I\u2019m also not surprised that the member Nick Smith thinks this is all waffle. That sort of thinking has led us to the degradation that we are seeing in our country today. I\u2019m really pleased to be making a plea that we actually take bigger steps back and have a look overall at the decisions we have made around land and water and soil, and they have not done us the best that they possibly could have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why the Green Party\u2014well, some of the reasons why the Green Party\u2014is standing proud, as a sole voice in this debate, to oppose the Waimea dam. What I hope for going forward\u2014because I know that this is going through\u2014is that we will continue to monitor the biodiversity impacts of this dam. Even though we think we\u2019ve got it right, that has proven to not be true when we make these decisions. We must make sure that we are not going to heap ratepayers with any future blowouts and that we monitor at every point the passage, the build, of this dam and the construction of this water infrastructure. For that reason, I\u2019m very proud to stand with my opposition today. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfca01b7c7b54865a65c7199d4483ebb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfca01b7c7b54865a65c7199d4483ebb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I give the next call, there\u2019s a lot of chatter around the Chamber, so can we keep that down? I call Dr Jian Yang\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00221d6ee3e92f7d43f6973b386fba19c7c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d6ee3e92f7d43f6973b386fba19c7c3\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to speak very briefly on this bill. It is very hard to understand the logic of Marama Davidson, the previous speaker, but I will focus on just three points. Number one is that local people have wanted such a dam for decades. The first study was commissioned in the early 1970s, but it was not until the big dry in the year 2000-01 that the big dry highlighted the problem with water shortage, because the drought was the most serious one that local people had experienced in 60 years and, basically, it affected everyone in the region. So the first point is that people have wanted it for many years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe second point is that there is a huge benefit economically. We can understand that horticulture is particularly important to New Zealand, with a national value of over $8.8 billion, and the Nelson-Tasman region is particularly important to our horticulture. So the dam will help to make the horticulture in the region more sustainable. It will create more jobs, and, environmentally, this dam will help the flow of the Waimea River, which means it will have a better river ecology because of the continuous flow of the river. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe final point is that it has not been easy to come to this stage, so we need to thank many people, including local leaders, organisations, scientists, and also, of course, Dr Nick Smith for his contribution. So it is a good bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225d99952c332048cf8dd1bb290bd1746a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d99952c332048cf8dd1bb290bd1746a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Angie Warren-Clark\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1f3c8b127ae43938e28e0e412eea6a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1f3c8b127ae43938e28e0e412eea6a0\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to take a short call on the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill\u2014probably the thing that I don\u2019t like most is the name. This is a local bill, sponsored by the Hon Nick Smith on behalf of the Tasman District Council. I\u2019ve not had the pleasure of sitting on the Governance and Administration Committee during the process of select committee, and therefore I feel quite privileged that I have the opportunity after about 17 years of hard work across this community to have a speech and to speak in this final debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m given to understand that the scheme has been in planning for nearly 20 years, and our Government, as the member Marama Davidson has noted, is going to wind down now from this public funding from these kind of events. But we made a promise that we would honour commitments to schemes that were sufficiently advanced, and we have agreed to keep that promise. I want to commend everyone who has worked very carefully on this bill, and to note that we\u2019ve put $42 million towards this dam of a total cost of $99 million. The community will own this, and they will pay back for a long time, but it will improve the needs of the community, including the berry farmers, and we all love a boysenberry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI think that I will leave it there. I do commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00228fdd3e133b6d4ee1baaf6c187a85b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fdd3e133b6d4ee1baaf6c187a85b1e3\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It is a privilege for me to stand and make a contribution to this debate on the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill. I simply want to make a short contribution to pay tribute to the people who have been involved in this from the outset. I pay tribute to Mayor Richard Kempthorne\u2014Mayor Richard has gone grey over the course of this project. His councillors, his staff\u2014I pay tribute to all of those people who\u2019ve worked on this scheme since the big dry of 2001. But I also acknowledge the industry and business interests that have also contributed to this project over time. And, of course, I do acknowledge my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith for his efforts in progressing this legislation through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said in previous debates, the big winner out of this water augmentation scheme is the Waimea River and the aquifers. No longer will we have the river running dry and poisonous algae developing. We will have minimum flows that can be controlled all year. This is a significant day for the Waimea Plains. It\u2019s a significant day for the security of businesses on that plain, and it is also a massive day for security of the domestic water supplies in Tasman. I have great pleasure in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa06cae5566e451cb3701ad9befbbc06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa06cae5566e451cb3701ad9befbbc06\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Being someone that hasn\u2019t sat on the Governance and Administration Committee that looked into this bill, I\u2019ve done a lot of research and thinking about it today, but in hearing the speeches here, there isn\u2019t a lot more that I can actually add to those speeches. While we\u2019ve had divided opinions from people on this, and that\u2019s great because that\u2019s democracy in action, this is a pragmatic piece of legislation. Looking into this today, I was totally impressed at what a great water augmentation scheme this is. Doing my research into it, I thought this is absolutely fantastic and this must happen and this needs to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI think that, like my colleague Paul Eagle said, our leaders on the Tasman District Council have made some bold calls, and I think it\u2019s fantastic that they\u2019ve coped with the issues that they\u2019ve had. But the leaders have stood up and they have led, and it\u2019s good to see this going through. As I\u2019ve said, this bill will add to both horticulture and residential use in the Waimea Valley area. There\u2019s not much more to say to that, because it is a great bill, and I look forward to seeing this come to fruition. So, therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c938e09b45cd4256b94f737619742625\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Tasman District Council (Waimea Water Augmentation Scheme) Bill now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb4e451cca254f569958dfedbc79957c\u0022\u003ENew Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b063911a61747a581ff845742ca0baf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002208b824eb31be400ca002ac3f31581436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208b824eb31be400ca002ac3f31581436\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chair. I move, That all provisions be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f61320d7d4b44b57be514459f5cfb72c\u0022\u003EPreamble, clauses 1 and 2, Parts 1 to 5, and schedules 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022013de8e4e2684e6a847a04e5a1f38431\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022013de8e4e2684e6a847a04e5a1f38431\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: We have a couple of technical amendments that the Parliamentary Counsel Office would like to make to the bill. We\u2019re just finding out what the process is for that, seeing as the wish of the committee is to proceed quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 184 in the name of Jonathan Young be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EPreamble, Parts 1 to 5, schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6f3f546f09e41708f7d226928198663\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3bf8d10af9a466da93a4a9b25ed4bbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3bf8d10af9a466da93a4a9b25ed4bbc\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Madam Deputy Speaker and members of the House, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. To Te Atiawa iwi, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. To New Plymouth District Council, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. To Taranaki Regional Council, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mum\u2014great to see you up there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses one of the most contentious land issues that this Parliament has seen in recent years, an issue that has vexed the people of Waitara, the people of Taranaki, and the people of Aotearoa New Zealand for over 150 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn 1860, the first shots of the New Zealand Land Wars were fired at Te K\u014Dhia P\u0101, just to the south-west of Waitara, over the Crown\u2019s attempted purchase of the Pekapeka Block. W\u012Bremu K\u012Bngi Te Rangitake refused to let the land at Waitara be sold. He said, \u201CI will not permit the sale of Waitara to the P\u0101hek\u0101. Waitara is in my hands. I will not give it up.\u201D The Crown persisted in the purchase of the Pekapeka Block despite its prior commitment not to purchase disputed land, and when it came time for the block to be surveyed, W\u012Bremu K\u012Bngi sent a party to prevent this, but martial law was declared. I have reflected on the words of W\u012Bremu K\u012Bngi\u2014the words that he made to Governor Browne about the Pekapeka Block in April 1859. He said, \u201CYou should remember that the M\u0101oris and the P\u0101hek\u0101s are living quietly on their pieces of land, therefore you do not disturb them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EHowever, in early March 1860, the Crown took military possession of Waitara. K\u012Bngi\u2019s supporters then built a fortified p\u0101 at Te K\u014Dhia on 15 March. Two days later, on 17 March 1860, the Crown fired and bombarded Te K\u014Dhia P\u0101. This action of the Crown firing shots against the people defending their rights under Te Tiriti o Waitangi sparked the New Zealand Land Wars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIn 1861, peace was reached and the agreement to investigate the purchase of the Pekapeka Block was committed to. In the meantime, it remained occupied by military troops. Before the investigation was completed, in April 1863, Governor Grey renounced the purchase of the Pekapeka Block. Sadly, though, this did not help the people of Waitara, as it later became part of the land confiscated in 1865 for rebellion against the Crown. Over one million acres of land at Taranaki was taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI was once conversing with somebody on Facebook and, at that point in time, they were asking questions about Te Atiawa Treaty settlement claim. They asked me \u201CHow much will it cost?\u201D\u2014I know this is separate to this bill\u2014and I replied, \u201CNot nearly as much as it has cost the iwi of Taranaki and of north Taranaki.\u201D And the reply came back: \u201CFair enough.\u201D So somebody out there had seen just the tremendous loss that had occurred in those periods of time. So, of those one million acres of land at Taranaki taken, only three hectares today remain in the ownership of \u014Ctaraua, and Manuk\u014Drihi owns no land. That\u2019s what\u2019s happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe Crown apologised to Te Atiawa t\u012Bpuna, hap\u016B, and wh\u0101nau for the dispossession, in its 2014 deed of settlement, and I\u2019m so pleased to have beside me the Hon Christopher Finlayson, who has led such tremendous work in our country and, particularly, in Taranaki. The Crown in the 1860s granted much of the confiscated land in Waitara to settlers. However, it also transferred land to the borough council and to the harbour board as what is termed \u201Cendowment land\u201D. Over time, this land was developed into leasehold land in order to provide much-needed housing and a reliable income stream for both borough council and harbour board. In the 1940s, all land was consolidated into the hands of the Waitara Borough Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ENew Plymouth District Council took over the endowment land as part of the 1989 local government amalgamation. Since then, the district council has been attempting to address the historical issues in relation to the Waitara lands. This bill is the council\u2019s third attempted resolution, after previously promoting a local bill to Parliament in 1992 and then offering the land to the Crown for inclusion in Te Atiawa\u2019s settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe Supplementary Order Paper 184 provides for a number of funds to be established. The Hap\u016B Land Fund has been established to enable the Waitara hap\u016B to be able to form a strong economic, cultural, and spiritual base for their onward and future development as a hap\u016B, and I believe that is one of the core facilitations of this bill. There is a Waitara Perpetual Community Fund for the social, economic, cultural, and environmental benefit of the Waitara community, another fund to enable health and well-being of the Waitara River and its catchment, and a fourth fund to improve Waitara and the lower river catchment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo accumulated income and future income from the Waitara endowment lands through lease income or freeholding of leasehold properties enables these different funds to receive income, and the expending and investment of those funds is for the community of Waitara\u2014for the hap\u016B, for the people there, for the health and well-being of the Waitara River, and I believe it is going to be, in terms of what this bill seeks to achieve, an incredible opportunity for the people of Waitara as they look forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo I want to thank the people who have been involved in this. This is a bill that has come from the local people, New Plymouth District Council, the Regional Council, Te Atiawa iwi, Waitara hap\u016B, leaseholders, and it is something which, as a community in North Taranaki, we have worked together to develop and bring to this point. It has been a long journey. The long journey of this bill has been only since 1992 and, latterly, in the last couple of years, but for the people of Te Atiawa, it\u2019s been a journey of 160 years. So we acknowledge that. My hope and my prayer is that this becomes a foundation for going forward, for establishing the aspirations and being able to fulfil the dreams that you have for your people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI would like, in the last minute or so of my speech, to acknowledge a number of people. First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge the person who has worked relentlessly behind the scenes, Nashwa Boys, who has done a tremendous amount of work as she worked between all parties. Thank you, Nashwa, for your amazing work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge my good friend and colleague the Hon Christopher Finlayson for his work, and the Hon Nanaia Mahuta and my North Taranaki fellow MP Adrian Rurawhe. Thank you very much. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the Hon Andrew Little for his contribution as well, and I would like to acknowledge also the Mayor of New Plymouth, Neil Holdom. Thank you to you and your team, in particular Alan Bird. Thank you for the work and the willingness and the vision that you have shown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThank you to the Waitara hap\u016B, who have had to grapple with not only the past but you have needed to take hold of the future in this bill. I acknowledge you and I thank you for your courage and your belief and your faith in your future. I\u2019d like to acknowledge David Cochrane and his team at Simpson Grierson, David McLeod, and chief executive Basil Chamberlain from the Taranaki Regional Council. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge Andrew Judd, the former Mayor of New Plymouth, and thank him for his care and his vision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWithout a willingness of all parties to find solutions and progress this issue, the Waitara community would not be able to anticipate a strong, unified, prosperous future. Through this bill, our prayer is that that can be achieved. Thank you very much. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f10cd62632f240e6a46f0f519c3a66d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f10cd62632f240e6a46f0f519c3a66d4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Deputy Speaker and t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa to those of you in the gallery who are visiting here from Taranaki and from New Plymouth. Can I begin by acknowledging the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Jonathan Young, not only for his contribution today but actually for picking up this legislation on behalf of the New Plymouth District Council and shepherding it through, doing so over many years in what, I think, has been an incredibly sensitive and sensible way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EMr Young has, in his engagements with me and my colleagues on this side of the House, been very clear that this is and has been a difficult issue. The history has been fraught, and we all agreed that this was not about ramming something down people\u2019s throats but about treading very carefully and understanding the sensitivities and taking people with us. So I want particularly to acknowledge the work of Jonathan Young in that, and I know he\u2019s been well supported by the Hon Chris Finlayson, whose contribution to the world of M\u0101ori/Crown relations has been extraordinary and will be a great legacy when he leaves this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge my colleague Adrian Rurawhe, also MP for that area and MP for Te Tai Hau\u0101uru, and the work that Adrian Rurawhe has done in working with local parties in that area\u2014also my colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, who has brought her incredible skills of dealing with difficult situations and bringing people together and forging solutions. She is totally remarkable in that respect and unmatched, in my observation and experience, for people dealing with difficult situations. Can I acknowledge the mayor, His Worship Neil Holdom, who is here, the former mayor Andrew Judd, the regional council chief executive Basil Chamberlain\u2014I know there are other councillors here. Can I acknowledge the people of Te Atiawa, and can I acknowledge the people of the hap\u016B of Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis has been, as Jonathan Young has said, a difficult journey in recent years as we have striven to come to terms with the history that, I think, in the P\u0101keh\u0101 world we feel considerable regret for and, in fact, wish had never happened. But it did happen. The land confiscations in the 1860s did happen, and in Taranaki it was brutal and it was harsh and it left a people dispossessed for generation after generation after generation. Much work in recent decades has gone to reconcile, to understand the history, and, most importantly, through the Treaty settlement process, to come to terms and to provide redress, but the issue of what happened at Waitara was never truly settled, and members in the House and members in all parties of the House have acknowledged that and understood that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe local district council has been grappling with the issue of what to do with the lands that it owns in Waitara, knowing that in order to heal the wounds of the past it had to come to a solution on the issue of the leasehold land at Waitara and the other lands around Waitara. So this bill seeks to do that. It is not perfect, and there will never be a perfect solution, I suspect, as we strive 160 to 165 years after the events to come to terms and to try to provide fairness as a consequence. More recently, for the people of Te Atiawa, as they have come to terms and sought agreement over their Treaty settlement, this issue has been left to be dealt with separately, and that has been the origins of this local bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt does a number of things, and it provides for the use of funds that come out of either the leases that will continue or the sale of the lands in ways that will benefit Waitara and the people of Waitara, whoever they may be. But there is the issue of the interests of the leaseholders as well, and this afternoon, very late in the piece, a petition has been presented by Grant Knuckey on behalf of several hundred others. Their request was to slow the process down and to delay the third reading of this bill, but I think we all realise that a lot of work and a lot of effort has gone into this. It has been difficult for some of the leaseholders over the last 20 years as they\u2019ve litigated their position, as they\u2019ve sought to find a result for them that is fair as well. But the passage of time means that opportunities that might have been taken some years ago are no longer available, and I think this bill has allowed us to arrive at a position and a place that, in the end, is the fairest even if it is not perfect. So those who are leaseholders will have the opportunity to buy out their leases and to take freehold title of the properties that they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere are some, if we are brutally honest with ourselves, who have been opportunistic over the last several years. There are some who have gone to take up multiple leases and who have urged a result that would give them a windfall gain. Well, you take your chances in these things but \u201CIf it don\u2019t work out, it don\u2019t work out.\u201D And, for some, that has not worked out. There are others who have been longstanding occupiers of their leasehold property but who are at a time in their life where it will be difficult for them to summons the means and the funds to buy out their lease and purchase the freehold. That is unfortunate. They won\u2019t be able to take up the opportunity that is provided for in the bill, and over the next 15 months they can purchase the land at the frozen rate that is provided for in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat is one of the reasons why the bill is not perfect, but it could not be perfect, and the challenge for Jonathan Young and the respective mayors of the New Plymouth District Council, the other MPs who have been involved, those who have been talking and in k\u014Drero with the various interested parties\u2014there were so many interests, over such a long period of time, that it is not possible to produce, and has not been possible to produce, the perfect result for everyone. But there is now a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI would hope that what has been achieved here with all of those who get a chance to utilise the provisions of the bill\u2014that it will allow everybody, if not tomorrow but in the months and years ahead, to start to turn their gaze towards the horizon and towards the future, and to think about what the future of Waitara might now hold, a Waitara where people are settled, people can take the opportunities that are presented to them, resources can go into those things\u2014the cleaning up of the river, that mighty river that flows from the hills of the maunga out to the Tasman Sea\u2014and that we will see a Waitara, a township, that is revitalised, re-energised, a town that can find peace amongst its people and be at peace with itself. If this bill helps us take an important step in that direction, then the bill will have served its purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo I conclude simply by acknowledging the mahi that has gone into it\u2014the work that has gone into it\u2014and the extraordinary emotional investment that has gone into it from all parties: from the iwi, from the hap\u016B, and from all the people of Waitara. Let\u2019s now see this as an opportunity to put to bed the unrest and the unease that has been sitting there for generations, and let us turn now to the future and strive to fulfil the hopes of the next generation and those who follow to make this a place, a town, of prosperity, of hope, and of great good fortune to all who live there. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022 data-id=\u0022459fccfa487840fd8ee8d29060de6947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022459fccfa487840fd8ee8d29060de6947\u0022\u003EHon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Deputy Speaker, as I\u2019m out of here in the next couple of weeks, I\u2019d very much like to give a general statement about Treaty settlements and Taranaki without being reprimanded by you for not strictly complying with the Standing Orders on third readings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EI remember very well going to M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare Day at Owae Marae in 2009 as a rookie Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations and saying to the representatives there how great it would be if we dealt with the remaining Treaty settlements, and I don\u2019t think I was too popular at the Office of Treaty Settlements on the Monday after M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare Day, but we got started. On 17 March 2010, the then Prime Minister John Key and I signed the terms of negotiation with Te Atiawa in New Plymouth, and I went around the coast to sign the terms of negotiation with Taranaki, and then we also signed with Ng\u0101ruahine. They were great settlements and great negotiations, even if Mahara Okeroa, whom I welcome to the House today, and Jamie Tuuta, who\u2019s in the gallery, drove me to distraction at the eleventh hour when they said to me, just when I was ready to initial the deed in relation to Taranaki, \u201CWhat about Parihaka?\u201D I was angry then, I have to say to him\u2014through you, Madam Deputy Speaker\u2014but I understand now why it was so important to deal with the issue of Parihaka. Mr Little and I and the Chief Justice and others went to Parihaka in June 2017 to acknowledge what had happened there and to apologise for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThe other delight for me as a Minister\u2014this time, as the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage\u2014was to work with others in Taranaki to ensure that those beautiful Motunui panels could come back from Geneva and now to Puke Ariki, where they hold pride of place there thanks to the work of Kelvin Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EThere were two remaining issues on the Treaty front that needed to be addressed\u2014first of all, the issue of Mount Taranaki and the issue of legal personality, building on the excellent work done in the 1970s by the Hon Venn Young, Jonathan Young\u2019s father, who was then Minister of Lands in the Muldoon administration. I never got to that stage, and it\u2019s going to be a task that will be carried out, I am sure, by Mr Little. The final issue in Treaty settlement terms was a settlement with Ng\u0101ti Maru, and that is progressing under the leadership of Mr Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut there was one issue, after all that enjoyable and wonderful work, that worried me intensely, and that was the issue of Waitara. That is why I am so very pleased that today we reach what I believe is a very satisfactory conclusion to that issue. No one, as the Minister so insightfully said, is fully satisfied. What happened in Taranaki\u2014and for me, it\u2019s been the education of a public man\u2014was very, very serious, a blot on our nation\u2019s history, an affront to the rule of law, cruelty of a degree and of a magnitude that I think is without parallel in the history of our country. I can understand the depth of feeling and the fact that there probably, as someone said to me not so long ago, won\u2019t be true forgiveness in the Taranaki region for a couple more generations. But the good peoples in the gallery today need to understand that local and regional government have worked very hard with central government to at least try and create the conditions where, ultimately, there can be reconciliation. That is why this bill is so very important, because it was in Waitara where the Land Wars started, where there were such dreadful abuses, and the lands, the Pekapeka lands, were and are lands that mean so much to the hap\u016B of Waitara.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EBut the threefold aims of this bill, I believe, go a long way to create a more just situation. Land is to be returned to the hap\u016B of Waitara. There\u2019ll be an opportunity to purchase further land. Leaseholders receive a right to freehold; they are victims of those dreadful Glasgow leases\u2014I almost was tempted to move a Supplementary Order Paper to include a right to achieve justice for Te Aute in the Hawke\u2019s Bay, because they\u2019re victims of Glasgow leases as well\u2014and then a fund to be used for the benefit of the Waitara community and, as the Minister said, the Waitara River. They\u2019re very important components of this bill, and I believe the fund is going to be used for the benefit of the people of Waitara for years to come. Through this fund, we will be also able to address environmental quality issues in the Waitara River.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003ESo I can\u2019t say it\u2019s with great pleasure that I stand here and speak, because I know too much. I know the suffering that there has been in the Taranaki over the years, and that is why I was so lucky, as a Minister, to be involved in dealing with these issues. But I really do want to commend my very dear friend and colleague Jonathan Young for his tireless work on this issue, the sensitivity with which he has approached it. He hasn\u2019t tried to rush the issue; he\u2019s tried to deal with it very carefully and methodically, working in more recent times with the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, seeking the counsel of Andrew Little, of course, who grew up in the New Plymouth area and knows so many of these issues instinctively. It\u2019s been a tremendous effort by parliamentarians across the Chamber, and I acknowledge that and thank them very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EJonathan Young was very generous in his comments about Nashwa Boys, and I too want to say how much I have appreciated her contribution. I first got to know her when she was an official in the Office of Treaty Settlements. Since then, she\u2019s been an independent contractor, but she\u2019s really thrown herself at this task and has done a wonderful job, and I want to acknowledge her. I want to acknowledge Briar Gordon from the Parliamentary Counsel Office for her wonderful contribution, building on the excellent drafting of the bill by David Cochrane, who is a consultant in Simpson Grierson. One of the real pleasures of knowing that this bill has passed will be that David Cochrane, with whom I play golf on a regular occasion, will not start talking about the bill when I\u2019m about to tee off. So that, if anything, is a positive that will come out of this legislative mechanism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002241146229-4d11-415b-a4ac-f4e2b923e95d\u0022\u003EIt has been a long and difficult struggle. There will be people who will question the justice of this, but I truly do believe that very good efforts have been made by the district council and the regional council and central government to deal with these issues justly. I believe that in years to come, we\u2019ll all look back and say this was a very good piece of legislation which tried to do the very best it could to play its part in addressing the shocking inequities of the past. So I do commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a82eac57e6f44300a2da10208f65a4fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a82eac57e6f44300a2da10208f65a4fc\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te W\u2019are, otir\u0101, e tika ana kia tuku mihi atu ki te tokomaha o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata n\u014D Waitara kua tae mai ki Te W\u2019are nei, n\u014D reira koutou i tae mai ki Te Whare P\u0101remata, Manuk\u014Drihi, \u014Ctaraua, Te Atiawa, koutou katoa. T\u0113nei ahau e tuku atu te mihi ki a r\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, he tika hoki kia tuku mihi atu, kia whakapiri t\u014Dku nei mi\u2019i ki ng\u0101 mi\u2019i kua mihia e te mema a Jonathan Young. N\u014D reira, ka tuku mihi atu ki a ia, ki te mema me t\u0113nei pire. Kei te mihi atu ahau ki a ia m\u014D \u014Dna ma\u2019i katoa ka mahia mai e a ia i roto i \u0113nei \u0101huatanga. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Greetings to the Speaker, and indeed it is right to greet the large number of the people from Waitara who have arrived at this House, therefore to those of you who have arrived at Parliament, Manuk\u014Drihi, \u014Ctaraua, Te Atiawa, all of you. I am delivering my greetings to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EConsequently, it is also right to deliver greetings, to append my greetings to the greetings which have already been expressed by the member Jonathan Young. Therefore, I acknowledge him, the member, and this bill. I acknowledge him for all his work that he has done with regard to these matters. Therefore, greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour for me to speak on the third reading of this bill. I spoke on the first reading and the second reading. In the first reading, I spoke about all of the competing and different interests that a number of groups had. I talked about what each one of those, in my opinion\u2014what their interests were. I reflect on the words of the Hon Andrew Little in his contribution, and I would add to what he has contributed around looking for a perfect solution. The unfortunate part is that to provide a perfect solution for one of those groups will provide an imperfect solution for another, and the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, I believe, did a very good job on working through all of those issues along with the member Jonathan Young. I want to commend him for his patience and his understanding, because it cannot have been an easy task to shepherd this bill through every stage of this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIt has been a very long process. The first reading was in September 2016. We are now 27 months later. It hasn\u2019t been rushed. It\u2019s been a very slow process, but I would say a very thorough one as well. It\u2019s also a pleasure for me to follow the contribution from the Hon Chris Finlayson. I think Mr Finlayson\u2019s contribution contextualised what happened before this bill, and Mr Young and Mr Little have talked about everything that\u2019s happened up until now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI want to add my thoughts around this, and my thoughts are mainly about the future. Some of the things that Mr Finlayson spoke about were the challenges of coming to a solution, but I would also add in there the generosity of everyone that was involved in it to try to find a solution. In particular, I also really want to acknowledge, along with colleagues, the contribution that Nashwa Boys made to bringing us to this point, because she did work closely with every single party on this bill and, in her own quiet way, challenged all of us to do better. I think that was the right thing for her to do and for us to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ENot everyone will be happy with this bill, but, as I said before, a perfect solution for one group would be an imperfect one for other groups. Thinking about the future, what this bill does is provide the avenue for both the Waitara hap\u016B and the Waitara community to fulfil their aspirations and gives them the means by which to do it. I think that\u2019s a really important point to note. It won\u2019t happen tomorrow, but over time it will happen. I say to those who really don\u2019t want this bill to go through today that this is just one part of a long-term solution, I believe. I think I can honestly say, with my hand on my heart, that passing this bill today in its third reading is much better than not passing it, because not passing this bill will have implications for much longer than passing it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI hope that over time we are proven correct and that the benefits of this bill\u2014this Act, as it will be\u2014will provide the means for \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi, the Waitara hap\u016B, to establish themselves in the way that they would like to establish themselves and to achieve the aspirations that they want to achieve. As I said in the first reading of this bill, and at that time we had not yet had the third reading of Te Atiawa Claims Settlement Bill\u2014we had that about a week or so later\u2014I talked about the opportunities that Te Atiawa Claims Settlement Bill would have for all of the hap\u016B. It\u2019s well-known that the hap\u016B weren\u2019t happy with everything that was in that bill and the process that that bill took, but I\u2019m certainly hoping that this today\u2014this bill and the future of the arrangements within it\u2014adds to their ability to be able to achieve their aspirations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI want to encourage the new entity that has been established\u2014Te K\u014Dwhatu T\u016B Moana. I believe that through this vehicle, the hap\u016B will be able to achieve those very aspirations that I talked about. I believe also that help and ongoing relationships with both local government and central government will be critically important in the days ahead for the Waitara hap\u016B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, k\u0101ore e roa t\u0113nei t\u016B. Oti noa e tika ana kia mihi ake an\u014D ki a r\u0101tou i mahia ng\u0101 mahi m\u014D t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Therefore, this speech won\u2019t be long. So then it is right to acknowledge again those who carried out the work for this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI just want to, as other members have, acknowledge the New Plymouth District Council, Mayor Neil Holdom, the Taranaki Regional Council, and the leaseholders who, no doubt, were going through stages of wondering what was going on with this bill. I hope that the future is much better for the whole community. My hope is that this bill will add much more to the community, the wider community of Waitara. I believe that through this particular bill, that will be so. N\u014D reira, t\u0113nei ahau an\u014D e tuku mihi atu ki a t\u0101tou katoa, n\u014D reira.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E[Consequently, I am standing to deliver greetings to us all, therefore]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022d132f251d2054556b8f4819ebf880443\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d132f251d2054556b8f4819ebf880443\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E It is with much pleasure that I get up and offer my support on behalf of New Zealand First for this New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill. We note that this seeks to resolve part of a longstanding dispute going back to the 1860s. I am not as versed in the background of that as the previous speakers, who I think have done a fantastic job of outlining the circumstances that have brought us here today. I can only just imagine the injustices for your people of having a million acres of land confiscated\u2014quite unthinkable. I think, actually, it is of great credit to us as a nation that we have sought to redress some of these wrongs. I note that we are about to have a plaque mounted on the Parliament here, in this debating chamber, to commemorate the land wars, which are probably not as well understood as they should be\u2014and possibly wilfully so from past generations. It\u2019s great that this generation, and, hopefully, generations of the future, are seeking to right some of those wrongs as best we can under the circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo we know that, overall, the bill enables some transfer of lands back to Te Atiawa and the Waitara hap\u016B, and it does allow leaseholders to freehold some of their properties\u2014I think they\u2019ve got about 15 years to do so, or continue on with those perpetual leases. This must be quite the balancing act, because it\u2019s important that we don\u2019t create a fresh set of grievances out of addressing the past. So I commend all those involved in bringing this agreement together. Of course, this is off the back of the Crown acknowledging the dispossession of the lands of Te Atiawa and Waitara hap\u016Bs back in that 2014 deed of settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe funds that will come flowing from the fund that will be set up\u2014we hope that it will provide economic boost to your people, and that they will be used wisely. I note one of the uses for this money is to clean up the Waitara River, and that is to be commended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First actually abstained in the second reading of this bill. We had some concerns about 25A and just the mechanism or the make-up of that subcommittee, where there were\u2014I think now we\u2019ve landed on three from the hap\u016B and three appointed by the council, which we\u2019re quite happy about. We just wanted some clarity on that during those earlier readings, but we are happy that that\u2019s landed where it has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI think, in closing, we definitely have to acknowledge, first of all, the local member, Jonathan Young, and I will just endorse the comments that were made earlier about him in this. This will have been a significant achievement for you as a local MP. There are a lot of issues to bring together, and your temperament, as has been noted earlier, will have been a great asset in doing so, and it\u2019s a great credit to you, Mr Young. The previous Minister, the Hon Chris Finlayson\u2014I think his legacy in this field, across a number of Treaty settlements, he will be remembered for, and we acknowledge him. And, of course, the current Minister, Andrew Little, is picking up that baton and is attempting to progress these settlements on behalf of the Government now, and is really rolling up his sleeves and doing that. Of course, the local leaders\u2014Mayor Holdom, I believe, may be here. Congratulations for getting your end of the deal sorted out. There is significant local leadership needed in bringing these issues to hand. So without further ado, New Zealand First is delighted to support this bill, and we commend this to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u002297c99dc6a1934194ae278faedcb8853f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297c99dc6a1934194ae278faedcb8853f\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou ng\u0101 pu\u0101waitaka o t\u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u012Bpuna. He mihi h\u014Dhonu ki ng\u0101 uri o Awanui\u0101rangi. N\u014D reira, e koutou r\u0101, e ng\u0101 mane, e ng\u0101 reo o rau rakatira m\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, he mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Well, greetings to the fruits of our ancestors. Profound greetings to the descendants of Awanui\u0101rangi. Therefore, to the authorities, to the voices of the many leaders, greetings, greetings, greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWhat a hard process the passage of this bill has been. I want to just acknowledge very quickly the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee of the 51st Parliament, and particularly those members that are not here in this 52nd Parliament\u2014Chester Borrows, Marama Fox, and also Pita Paraone\u2014because there was a lot of work, actually, that was done on this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThere are two aggrieved peoples before us: the Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua hap\u016B of Te Atiawa, and the leaseholders on the iwi\u2019s lands who were given reassurances of being able to buy the land they leased. It\u2019s been encouraging to see all parties acknowledge the grave injustice committed against the Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua hap\u016B. Not 20 years after a treaty was signed between the iwi and the Crown, fighting had broken out in Waitara. Notwithstanding the loss of life that occurred on both sides of the fighting lines, any reasonable view of M\u0101ori land alienation could only have concluded the Treaty obligations the Crown then, and to this day, had. The various hap\u016B of Te Atiawa, Taranaki iwi, Ng\u0101ti Mutunga, and Ng\u0101ti Tama, along with the support of their once mortal enemies, Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto, reluctantly took up arms to try and protect their diminishing landholdings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe Crown response was almost gleeful as they took up the patu of confiscation to hasten the alienation of the land Taranaki Treaty partners were objecting to. Confiscation is a dreadful tool that shines a poor light on our predecessors in the House here. Quite how a New Zealand Government could think it just to impoverish a people for protecting lands they held for hundreds of years\u2014what did the Crown think would happen to Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua? I shudder to think of what the answer might have been from my predecessors. That history\u2014and we are bound to repeat the mistakes of our predecessors. Are we going to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EBefore us today is the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill. Finally we can begin to correct the hara of the past. As is so often the case with matters Treaty and endeavours to address the past, the solution here, in a lot of ways, is imperfect, and that is because we cannot address one injustice by creating another injustice. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the past, and irrespective of how the leaseholders came on to the land, they are here, the leasees, and they have made lives for themselves and their families. They have invested time, money, and sweat into the property. They were mistakenly told they could convert their freehold title. I think it\u2019s a callous person that is unreceptive to the genuine anguish of ordinary Kiwi folk trying to minimise their family losses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EOur role as politicians in this House is to carefully balance the needs of all New Zealanders as we seek to address the past wrongs. This bill is that balancing act in action. This is, I believe, a pragmatic, albeit imperfect, response to the issue before the House today, and it has the support of the New Plymouth District Council. It is to this council now that I turn my gaze. Like us, you are a Crown creation, and like us, you have Treaty responsibilities that extend back to 1840. I applaud you for having been in discussions and finally coming to the point we are at here today. As the Crown\u2019s parliamentary representative, I have to take the accolades and spoken attacks that go with my role. I have to be responsible for the actions of my parliamentary predecessors. I have to own Crown failings as though they are my failings, and, to the New Plymouth District Council, so do you\u2014so do you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EIt has taken 30 years for you to get to this point, and I have to express my surprise that it took this long. Notwithstanding that the fault lies with people who were in your seats before you, it is still your responsibility as a collective entity. The issue was, indeed, black and white. The lands unlawfully taken were passed across to people who were given reassurances that should never have been made. It is as much these reassurances in the leases that brings us here today that finally is the end of this journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAll the acknowledgments have been made to those that have assisted in this bill, but one thing that I\u2019d like to do is to finally acknowledge again the hap\u016B of Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua, because your journey has been hard, but you have now the opportunity to actually make that journey, and then it is for your children and their children after you. N\u014D reira, e huri noa i Te Whare nei, he mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Therefore, right around the House, greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022569fc220acd84a1ba661b3be70b0b62c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022569fc220acd84a1ba661b3be70b0b62c\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Koutou kei ng\u0101 mana o \u014Ctaraua, koutou kei ng\u0101 mana o Manuk\u014Drihi, koutou kei ng\u0101 mana o Te Atiawa, mauri whakaheke, pupuru ng\u0101 taonga i waihotia e \u0101 t\u0101tou nei m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna. T\u0113nei ka t\u016B ake ki te mihi atu ki a koutou. Ka t\u016B atu r\u0101 ki ng\u0101 kaihaut\u016B o ng\u0101 kaunihera \u0101-rohe e \u0101rahi t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[To you the authorities of \u014Ctaraua, to you the authorities of Manuk\u014Drihi, to you the authorities of Te Atiawa, the transmitted essence, hold onto the treasures that were left by our ancestors. I am standing to greet you. Also to the leaders of the regional councils who have led this initiative. Greetings to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI rise to take a call in a significant bill that is a local bill, but you would think by listening to all the contributions that we\u2019re doing something a little bit more and a little bit more special today. Jonathan, the accolades around stewarding through a very difficult issue across the House, I think, is something that one would want to have as a positive reflection in the service to Parliament but also to an electorate, and I acknowledge you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EIn the preamble to the bill, there is a statement that really, in my mind, sets the context for what is being achieved here. I will read it from the preamble as it\u2019s stated: \u201CIn the words of the whakatauk\u012B written by Whiti Te Rangitaake to the chief land purchase commissioner in 1859\u2014\u2018Ko enei whenua ekore e hoatu e matou ki a korua ringaringa ko te Kawana, kei rite matou ki ng\u0101 manu o te moana e noho ana i runga i te k\u014Dwhatu, ka pari te tai ka ngaromia taua k\u014Dwhatu e te moana, ka rere ng\u0101 manu, no te mea kaore he nohoanga mo ratou\u2019.\u201D Translated, it reads: \u201CThese lands will not be given by us into the Governor\u2019s and your hands, lest we resemble the seabirds which perch upon a rock, when the tide flows the rock is covered by the sea, and the birds take flight for they have no resting place \u2026\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThat was an insertion of a part of a context of history that has been well spoken about across the House today, but it sets, I think, a nice sense of purpose as to what we\u2019re trying to achieve through a very difficult circumstance of history, but rectifying a challenged space that has been very hard to deal with, which is freeholding leasehold lands. In doing so, it was evident through the first reading and the select committee process that unless we tried to do something a little bit more to address the significant historical issues that have already been referred to, which are the first confiscated lands at Pekapeka, we may create more harm than good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo while much of our contribution sounds like a Treaty settlement, it isn\u2019t. For that reason, I want to acknowledge albeit a very difficult journey for the conversations across the district of New Plymouth District Council, as well as Taranaki Regional Council. The path to reconciliation requires continual effort and commitment to do the right thing, and, for New Zealand, it\u2019s a long road. For New Zealand, albeit through a Treaty settlement process, we have a way to try and move in the right direction. It\u2019s still a long road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis is a local bill, and I can remember when I came into this House as a very fresh-eyed MP, if you like. My electorate extended down into actually as far as Te Tai Hau\u0101uru and to Whanganui. But one of the people who stewarded me through my parliamentary career around understanding the other side of the picture and what happened in Taranaki\u2014because I grew up very much understanding the M\u0101ori historical context\u2014was a former colleague who is here in the House, Harry Duynhoven. In fact, we had a number of clinics and visits into the Waitara area, and, even at that early time, I knew that we needed to show much more commitment as a country, but also as local MPs, into the way in which the Waitara community could thrive and sustain itself. Harry, I\u2019m glad that you\u2019re here to witness something significant as well, and I know you\u2019ve had a hand in some of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere are aspects of the bill that have been well commented on, but, really, if I was to tie everything up into a nutshell, it\u2019s around the ability to ensure that across the catchment there will be a significant opportunity to contribute to the well-being of the health of the Waitara River catchment, and that\u2019s significant from an environmental point of view. From a community point of view, the ability to ensure that funds go to the Waitara community, of which both \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi are a part, will see in time a contribution directly into the community around the regeneration of Waitara, and that\u2019s been commented on. But, significantly, what it delivers\u2014and it is an opportunity, and it isn\u2019t everything but it\u2019s something for the hap\u016B of \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi. It secures and anchors a footprint of hap\u016B who belong there to actually have more of a say about how their community evolves and goes forward. It\u2019s an opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis has been a really difficult path for those who have really worked alongside Nashwa Boys to negotiate in many respects some innovations into a local bill that we wouldn\u2019t see otherwise\u2014some innovations into a bill that we wouldn\u2019t see otherwise. To the Manuk\u014Drihi people, Patsy Bodger, M\u0101whaturia White, and Moana Denness, I acknowledge you. I acknowledge the work that you\u2019ve done. To \u014Ctaraua, R\u0101wiri Doorbar, Donna Eriwata, and Alice Doorbar, I acknowledge you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETo the communities that have come together to try and ensure that you\u2019ve been kept abreast of what\u2019s being achieved here, I acknowledge all of you, and I acknowledge that while it doesn\u2019t go to the full extent of your aspiration, it does create an opportunity to work forward. But here\u2019s the thing: what this will secure and anchor to the hap\u016B of \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi\u2014and in time, we would hope, alongside their other wh\u0101nau of Te \u0100tiawa\u2014is to secure the history to the community of Waitara in a way that tells the story and balances up the way in which New Zealand recognises what actually happened in Waitara and on the Pekapeka Block.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave one last comment, really, and it is to the acknowledgments of Nashwa. The innovations in this local bill would not have been as they are were it not for the Treaty settlement experience that you brought to the table, but more importantly the listening heart to the people of the hap\u016B of \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi, because we have seen\u2014again, captured within the context of this bill\u2014the types of innovations that happen in Treaty settlements but not in local government legislation. I had many a meeting with the councillors, the mayor, and the Taranaki Regional Council about aspects of this bill that I was trying to nudge along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EOne last comment: there is an aspect of the bill should we continue down a path of reconciliation with a mind to do something more. The nature of the Hap\u016B Land Fund being a perpetual land fund is something that should be revisited, because if we want to ensure that the hap\u016B continue to be a presence that can sustain itself in its contribution to the heart and soul of the way in which Waitara develops, that may be an area that we look to for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve taken up more time than I need to, but I want to acknowledge this hasn\u2019t been an easy path. Every group represented in the House today have got many, many stories to tell. Briar, from a drafting point of view, I know that you worked tirelessly to make sure we shape the words and the intent of the bill in the way that it was going to ensure and give assurance to all the parties that are represented here. So we\u2019ve done something right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, he iti t\u0101ku kia tuitui ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa, Jonathan, koutou, t\u0101tou katoa, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[Therefore, my contribution is but small to weave in with the speeches about this initiative, Jonathan, all of you, all of us, greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022082bf1e78b1a4683b6abd7c21c6d53d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022082bf1e78b1a4683b6abd7c21c6d53d9\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Ki a koutou o \u014Ctaraua, Manuk\u014Drihi, Te Atiawa hoki, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Greetings to the Speaker. To those of you from \u014Ctaraua, Manuk\u014Drihi, and Te Atiawa, greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EMy discomfort in standing here today is in trying to balance the mana of all of the hap\u016B and all of the uri of Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua and the work that you have all done to try and seek true justice. My discomfort is to try and acknowledge the genuine work that has happened in this House, in the council, and among all of the hap\u016B, and yet stand and say that the Green Party will be opposing this bill today. Despite all of the genuine efforts, we do not feel that we have the full mandate of all hap\u016B to be able to support this bill in its entirety. We absolutely welcome the positives of this bill, and we absolutely uphold the mana, particularly of mana whenua katoa, Manuk\u014Drihi and \u014Ctaraua, in seeking to do their best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EMy discomfort is absolutely nothing compared to the injustice that happened to Taranaki iwi, to people, to Waitara, to the original birthplace of the tragic land wars at Pekapeka, to the lack of the return of the land that was illegally confiscated, or to the ongoing generational impoverishment\u2014both spiritual and physical\u2014that happened as a result of that injustice, of that cruelty, and of the inhumane treatment of peoples and hap\u016B. I stand here trying to uphold the vision of what we could really actually do to see true justice, while not wanting to take away from the efforts of various Ministers, the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, the council, and \u014Ctaraua and Manuk\u014Drihi leadership at all levels to try and drive forward where hap\u016B can make do and do the best that they can with what the Crown is offering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Catherine Delahunty, our previous Green Party member, who has brought the bill to its passage before now when she was a member in this House, and particularly her ongoing discussions with hap\u016B members. I also want to acknowledge Metiria Turei, who nominated that the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee would take this bill through its passage, which is absolutely the right place that it should have gone through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EOut of that injustice that this House and, of course, all hap\u016B members know far too well, some things have come from the bill that we are passaging through today. The Green Party absolutely welcomes that there will be a return of 44 hectares of land to hap\u016B, and with the sale from leaseholders being able to purchase land, some of those proceeds will be able to go back to hap\u016B. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe absolutely acknowledge the importance of the Waitara awa, and a fund will be established to help restore the mauri to that awa. I am particularly pleased to hear about the Hap\u016B Land Fund. That will help hap\u016B to be able to acquire and develop whenua into the future and, of course, also the reserves that will be transferred at the discretion of hap\u016B from council, should they wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI am congratulating everyone for the benefits that have been worked hard to bring the hua, the fruit, to account in this bill today. What I am standing here to do, as uncomfortable as it is, is be truthful that we should really be aiming for full justice and for the peace and restoration that will come from truly realising it. That is not to undermine any negotiations that happened but merely uphold a Crown responsibility, one that fully understands that the full return of land\u2014that the burden of those challenges has been on the shoulders of hap\u016B this whole time. The burden of that pragmatic challenge should rest, absolutely, with the Crown. We can\u2019t keep passing the buck as to who is going to fix up this mess the best. So I am standing here to acknowledge the privileges that have happened from that land confiscation over generations, and the dilemma that faced Ministers, council, Parliament, and hap\u016B in trying to reconcile that incredible raupatu in what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo we wish every bit of aroha to the work that is ahead of us. If a peace and reconciliation process is demanded or wished for from any hap\u016B, I would be pleased to be able to add my support to that in any way that is appropriate. I don\u2019t wish to delay my contribution any further. I am pleased to honour the benefits of this bill. I am also proud to do my duty to uphold that we should be reaching for a further vision and a higher vision of true justice. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9e1eb84bbe24cef877afcd098bbc588\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9e1eb84bbe24cef877afcd098bbc588\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to welcome the people of Taranaki here and to take a very short call in the interests of your time frame. You\u2019ve waited a very long time for this to happen. I want to congratulate Jonathan Young, Chris Finlayson, Nanaia Mahuta, and others who have been actively involved in where we are at today. So I\u2019m not going to take any more time out of your timetable, because I remember as a child with this growing up knowing about Waitara. I\u2019m 58 years old, and it\u2019s a lot longer than my lifetime. So I want to commend this bill to the House and congratulate you all today. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8ed33131b294d279eb23639cf1767b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8ed33131b294d279eb23639cf1767b7\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As I understand, if I take more than one minute, then we\u2019re all coming back in an hour and a half to finish this off. So I\u2019m going to make this really speedy, wh\u0101nau, because I know that you\u2019ve been up for a long time. I know that you had karakia at 6 a.m. I know that the bus picked you up at \u014Cwae Marae, and I know that it made a stop off at Stratford to pick some people up as well. So I want to move this through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge you and acknowledge the compromise that you have gotten to by even just being here today. I acknowledge you, I acknowledge the pain and the heartache that it\u2019s taken to get to this point, and I say that as one of Te Atiawa wh\u0101nui as well. We are the Coffeys from R\u0101hotu\u2014that\u2019s right. And, once upon a time, way back when, we made the journey down to Wellington. I grew up here, in Lower Hutt, because my family had escaped the terrors of the land wars. So I say that as one of your wh\u0101nau: I wish you all of the best going forward. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002229350d41bb5b4bf6aa888a670763c69e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT Party of New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000491\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000492\u0022\u003EHaka\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000493\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5eaeff8b72f40ab80b15c814399f93b\u0022\u003EPsychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002270769cdee06c48c0b9a94f3fee9d5807\u0022\u003EProcedure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00227cb1431d6f134b4497f58099cf56ee1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cb1431d6f134b4497f58099cf56ee1d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill to be set down for its third reading forthwith following the completion of its committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022220abcdbfba148a4aea86afd00e7cb04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022220abcdbfba148a4aea86afd00e7cb04\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re perfectly entitled, I suppose, to seek leave. Is there any objection? Oh, funny that\u2014there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224743c3d3f30a4f3985031a2a472a0846\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000499\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 28 November.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ec314bbf82f452aa9e4c154fab13d6a\u0022\u003EClause 4  Section 70 amended\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002294e15e8e4bc64e64be9cbcae7f6e4ddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294e15e8e4bc64e64be9cbcae7f6e4ddb\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. This is, of course, the most substantive part of this proposed piece of legislation, that being to increase the penalty for those who are supplying, or who are presumed to be supplying as a result of the threshold that they possess, synthetic substances, or rather actually all psychoactive substances\u2014a point that has been made abundantly clear throughout this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe Psychoactive Substances Act was created in 2013 for the sake of catching all substances that were not encompassed within the Misuse of Drugs Act classifications scheduling. It was an attempt to try and fill the gaps in terms of the large amount of substances that were being produced by backstreet chemists. As proposed in clause 4, it amends section 73(3)(a) of the Psychoactive Substances Act to replace \u201C2 years\u201D with \u201C8 years\u201D. There are a number of Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) to this clause, many of which seek to provide things that must be considered by judges in their sentencing of those for eight years. A number of those are actually in the name of my colleague Dr Duncan Webb, who is obviously an esteemed former lecturer in the legal profession, so I think that he probably takes quite a bit of pride in his work on these Supplementary Order Papers. I think that they are worthy of pride because they do offer a whole lot more clarification around the purpose, I think, and the general thrust of what it is that Simeon Brown and the National Party propose that they are trying to achieve with this increasing penalties for psychoactive substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThere is also an SOP in the name of my colleague Kiritapu Allan, which is actually, I think\u2014even though I myself have a number of Supplementary Order Papers in my name\u2014probably my favourite Supplementary Order Paper posed on clause 4 because it provides for the need to take into account a number of different factors in the sentencing of individuals who are prosecuted for supply or distribution, or presumption of supply or distribution. These are the factors that Kiritapu Allan proposes should be taken into account, and I would note, as well, that I think that it\u2019s incredibly brilliant that there are Te Reo M\u0101ori names for each of these things that must be taken into account\u2014for example, face-to-face reconciliation between the offender and the affected person. That is obviously part and parcel of a rehabilitative, restorative justice process. Appreciation and shame in respect of wrongdoing and its impact, rehabilitation, then the likes of the hauora\u2014the physical aspect, the spiritual aspect, the family aspect, and the psychological aspect as well\u2014and I would note that the offender\u2019s wh\u0101nau background is important. There is \u201Cthe principle that we should strive for values and practices of aroha (love and compassion), manaakitanga (support and kindness), wairuatanga (the importance of spirituality), and whanaungatanga (the value of connectedness to family and community):\u201D and we are to take into account \u201Cany wider matters that indicate that social and cultural influences may have had an impact on the offending: \u2026 and any matters drawn to the court\u2019s attention under section 27 of the Sentencing Act 2009:\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think that all of these factors are of critical importance to be considered when we are looking at sentencing people for any form of criminalisation that we\u2019ve come up with under the so-called war on drugs, because as all of the evidence and research demonstrates, particularly with regard to this Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill as it was put forward at the select committee stage, there is absolutely no evidence that increasing penalties will have a dent with regard to affordability and access of these substances, but it will only serve to increase our prison muster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EHowever, one thing that I do want to commend Simeon Brown on, as far as this members\u2019 bill goes, is the point that he has raised multiple times and which I\u2019d like to address and ask him today, and that is: does the National Party agree to not penalising drug users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022f981646aa4f341cbbd5a3cffd210324c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f981646aa4f341cbbd5a3cffd210324c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the chance to speak to clause 4 of the member\u2019s bill, which does one simple and substantive thing. It amends the principal Act and changes the penalty from two years to eight years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is an extremely important issue for all communities. On Monday night, I had a meeting in my own electorate office with four principals of the local college and the local health provider, all very concerned about a sudden uplift in the use of synthetic cannabis and the effect that that is having on their communities, their students, and also, obviously, from a health perspective, the medical community in our community are extremely concerned. We have seen a spike of use of psychoactive substances but also a spike in suicides from our youth. It is an issue of extreme importance to my community, so it is an issue which has to be taken seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe point that I would like to make around clause 4 is that not one of those principals and not one of those health practitioners in the room once mentioned increasing the penalties to in any way make any significant difference to the harm that it\u2019s causing in our community\u2014not once. They did talk about the need for more health resources in the community and more support for the schools themselves who are finding themselves having to deal with issues that they may have to see within their school-grounds. But beyond the school-grounds and the bell going off, they find it very tricky to deal with. So while Mr Brown might be trying to tackle a serious issue for some time during this debate, we have argued that this is not the way to deal with it. Simply increasing the penalty by six years, evidence has shown, is going to make little or no difference to the harm that is actually happening in our community. So while this is well-intentioned, on this side of the House we seriously question why this is coming before the House in such a manner, and whether or not Mr Brown has actually done any research to get hard evidence as to whether or not this is going to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI will reiterate that it is having a massive effect on our communities and is putting some of the most vulnerable people in our communities\u2014especially young people\u2014into the position where they\u2019re thinking of taking their lives. So this is not an issue to be sniffed at, but it is an issue that if this House is going to look at how we deal and support those communities, we look at and seriously resource things that are going to make a difference. So I would ask a question in and around clause 4 of Mr Brown: where\u2019s your evidence that this is actually going to make a difference? That is a question that I think my community deserves to have answered, if you\u2019re seriously going to stand in the House and say this is one of the silver bullets to deal with an increasingly troubling issue in communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWhat I think they do want to see is not just increasing the penalties. They do want to see a Government that\u2019s taking action on mental health, they do want to see a Government that is taking action on supporting young people in our community, and they do want to see a Government that is supporting vulnerable young people in our communities, and I think that\u2019s where the focus of this debate needs to be: making sure we\u2019re supporting those workers in our community, whether they be inside the school or out, to make sure we\u2019re supporting those vulnerable young people in our communities who are extremely vulnerable and looking at self-harm and suicide, and who have taken that action because of their use of psychoactive substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo, again, just one simple question to Mr Brown: what evidence do you have that this is actually going to make a difference? If you stand up in the Chamber and give me some evidence, I\u2019ll take it back to those four principals at my colleges who are desperate for help for their students, because they\u2019ve seen far too much pain over a long period of time and too much talk from politicians in this House. They want to see some serious action and serious resourcing to make sure that they can back up their commitment to looking after their students with support with a health bent, not a punishment bent\u2014because this is all we\u2019re doing here by lifting the penalty from two years to eight years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022a595b04f6a7d40fbb77d2a3984a636a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a595b04f6a7d40fbb77d2a3984a636a0\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Chair, and thank you very much. I always listen to the Hon Kris Faafoi with great respect. I appreciate his thoughtful contributions, and I listened to the last one. He\u2019s the finest Minister in the current Government and probably one of the busiest, and he\u2019s just demonstrated that he\u2019s also an active local constituency MP. Like him, as an electorate MP, I listen carefully to what people say to me in my electorate, as well. While I don\u2019t for a moment question that that was the feedback he\u2019s got, I wonder whether his colleague in front of him, the former secretary of the police union, would suggest to him that police officers in this country would articulate a very different view, because it\u2019s certainly my understanding that many in the police would suggest that increasing the penalties\u2014particularly for these psychoactive substances\u2014will make a very significant difference, and that is why I\u2019m very supportive of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWhen I spoke in the second reading of this debate, I began by asking a question which provoked an outraged reaction from the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, and I\u2019m pleased to see Miss Swarbrick in the Chamber tonight. I\u2019m not going to repeat the question that I put because I don\u2019t want to provoke a similar reaction, but I do just want to clarify that the point that I was trying to make\u2014and I think it has been confirmed for me, listening to a number of the contributions in this committee stage\u2014is that to some extent, we\u2019ve been talking across each other in this particular debate. I have no doubt at all that for many people who are addicted to these drugs or who are exposed to them for perhaps the first or second time, this is predominantly a health issue, and I don\u2019t have any problem with treating it as such. The point I was trying to make was that this is a bill about increasing penalties for those who manufacture and, in particular, supply the drugs, and that is why I am so strongly in support of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn my own community and, I think, probably in communities the length and breadth of this land, the horror is at those who peddle these pernicious drugs in such a way that they do enormous harm to vulnerable New Zealanders. That is why I do believe that there is considerable evidence\u2014and the police would back this up\u2014that stiffer penalties will send the right deterrent message, and that is what the bill is aiming to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is not about toughening up on those who are using the drugs; it is about getting tough on those who supply the drugs. That, as I say, is where I think there has been a lot of debate at cross-purposes and talking over the top of each other, and I do want to clarify that the reason I and my colleagues on this side of the House are so strongly in support of the bill that Simeon Brown has put forward is because we absolutely endorse his view that we need to send a very clear message in the community. My colleague Matt King, the member for Northland, who\u2019s also a former police officer, has confirmed to me that it is definitely the view of his former colleagues that this bill will be effective, that it will send the right message, and that it will help to reduce the problem that psychoactive substances are causing in our community, not least because it will actually address the illogical imbalance at the moment in the way some other drugs are treated in our criminal justice system when these drugs are actually being treated in a way that is very lenient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo as we debate clause 4 of this bill, which is all about that key provision of increasing the penalty, I am strongly in support of that. I want to acknowledge the support of New Zealand First, who I think have listened to New Zealanders as well and who are pushing in the same direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI strongly commend Simeon Brown for the great work that he has done. I send my aroha and sympathy to all who are suffering from the effects of these drugs in our community, and I very much hope that the House will see fit to pass this bill to send the right message to those who are involved in this horrible trade, to try to reduce the problem\u2014we\u2019ll probably never be able to stamp it out altogether\u2014that is endemic in so many communities. So I commend Simeon Brown, and I urge the committee to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229fb04ea780104988a011ef386e0aeb3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fb04ea780104988a011ef386e0aeb3f\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Tim Macindoe, the previous speaker, talked long and hard about sending a message, and it\u2019s right. This bill, if passed, would send a message. It would send a message that we\u2019ve given up and we\u2019ve stopped caring. We both agree\u2014and Mr Brown and I were in the Justice Committee on this matter\u2014that this is a very significant problem, but the only message that this bill sends is to the fearsome community that they should be afraid. It doesn\u2019t send a message that there\u2019s something that we can actually do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe know for a fact\u2014and the statistics are there to be seen\u2014that increasing penalties does not have a deterrent effect for people who are in these communities. There\u2019s a fallacy that these offenders are smart-thinking people who make calculated choices. They\u2019re not. By and large, they are themselves addicted to substances and often mentally ill, so they are in the thrall of the very substances that we\u2019re trying to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo what we need\u2014and as my Supplementary Order Paper 170 sets out\u2014is to, in every decision we make, ask: how can we address the root of the problem? Rather than incarcerating someone for long periods of time, we should first ask the question: is that the right response? So the first question should be: \u201CWell, is this wrong, is this social harm, and is this cancer that blights society best addressed by incarceration or by addressing the mental health needs of this person?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo my Supplementary Order Paper accepts Mr Brown\u2019s eight years, but says this: when determining the length of a sentence, the court shouldn\u2019t automatically go through their usual tariff process, which is to start at the midway mark and look for aggravating and mitigating factors. No, the first question should be: \u201CDoes the offender need the health and mental health services?\u201D, so that we can make sure that those person\u2019s needs\u2014the very things that caused this social harm\u2014are addressed so that we break the cycle and not compound the cycle, and compounding the cycle is exactly what incarcerating people for longer periods of time does. It\u2019s exactly what we don\u2019t want to do in this area of the law. What we need to be addressing in respect of drug law is a situation where we don\u2019t punish people for their own, essentially, illnesses and frailties, but we address those through the health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing that my Supplementary Order Paper would do\u2014again, accepting if Mr Brown manages to get this eight years through\u2014is to look at the availability, when making a sentencing decision, of access to the required health and mental health services for the offender. So if we have a humane prison framework which can address those things, then all well and good\u2014that might be the right place\u2014but we know that the prison system we\u2019ve inherited is not one that has the resources needed to do exactly that. So the place for these people is in community facilities that can address their health and mental health issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe signal we should be sending is not \u201CLook out, these people are dangerous. They are harmful. We need to lock them away. We need to fence off part of our society.\u201D\u2014and we know for a fact that this afflicts our M\u0101ori communities particularly, so there\u2019s an element in there that Kiritapu Allan\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 162 looks at. We need to be able to say, \u201CNo, these people remain part of our community even if they are incarcerated.\u201D We recognise they\u2019re coming back into our community, and we want them to be useful, healthy members of our society. So when we make a sentencing decision in any drugs area but especially in the particularly pernicious psychoactive substances, we need to look at the offender\u2019s needs for health and mental health, we need to look at the availability of those services, and we need to make sure we place that person in the area that\u2019s best for them, best for the community, and best for society. That is the signal we need to send.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc4bc164cc4c45a2a9314ec0bfaa8735\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc4bc164cc4c45a2a9314ec0bfaa8735\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to address the points made by the Hon Tim Macindoe with regard to the fact that we seem to be speaking at cross-purposes a lot of the time when we do address this issue. I also wanted to speak to his point around how I got quite elevated the last time that we were debating this, and I wanted to acknowledge that, because I did. I didn\u2019t intend to come into Parliament to be an advocate for drug law reform. I managed to fall down this rabbit-hole by virtue of investigating and looking at the evidence\u2014actually, primarily off the back of medicinal cannabis, and falling further and further into the research\u2014of the injustices and inequities that are perpetuated by the war on drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI believe that the sparring match that occurred, the verbal sparring match between myself and the Hon Tim Macindoe, was largely around his\u2014and I don\u2019t mean to, but for lack of a better term, I put this out there\u2014accusation that I didn\u2019t care about the loss of life. I understand that that may not have been his intention, but that was the way that I had perceived what he was stating, and the reason that I got so elevated in response is because I take this deeply seriously. I have had numerous debates with people who are at the front lines and at the coalface of dealing with this crisis\u2014notably, a number of people in the police service, those who are in Housing First, and those who provide addiction mental health support services\u2014and all of them are saying that something has to be done differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI work with Lifewise, which is one of the two youth housing providers in Auckland, for about three hours every Monday. They have raised that whilst the coroner\u2019s figures approximate that about 50-odd people have died as a result of consuming synthetic cannabis in the past year, those figures are probably higher because, as the coroner\u2019s reports demonstrate, the demographics who are largely consuming these synthetics are homeless and jobless and don\u2019t have people to care for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo the Hon Tim Macindoe\u2019s point around the police and how this was something that the police may actually want, I just wanted to refer him to page five of the Justice Committee\u2019s report, because the New Zealand Police Association did submit on this legislation, and they asked for a difference or a change in approach. I\u2019ll quote from the select committee report stating, \u201CThe New Zealand Police Association argued that substance use and crime are often linked, due to the high cost of a drug habit, fed by a criminal marketplace. While the association supports the intent to target suppliers, it argues that the bill is not supported by evidence that increasing penalties will deter them.\u201D That\u2019s the Police Association. They also stated that \u201CThe association supports an holistic approach to [dealing with] the problem.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe police themselves, who are at the front lines, are saying that increasing penalties will not deter suppliers, and all of the evidence and research that we have accumulated from jurisdictions across the world for decades has proved that. We had all UN member States in 1998 signing up to the war on drugs. We said that if we continued to ratchet up penalties, we would have a drug-free world by 2008. But, instead, by virtue of cracking down on all people involved in the trade, we have ended up with a proliferation of harm. Substances have got more dangerous, and that\u2019s actually what we saw and what Kevin Hague, a former Green MP, warned of when we took away the temporary licences that were put in the first version of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013 by way of a 2014 amendment in response, again, to a moral panic. If we want to reduce harm, we have to take the issue out of the darkness and put it in the light, and we have to\u2014we absolutely have to\u2014treat drugs as a health issue. We have to walk the talk on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo Tim Macindoe\u2019s point about how we seem to be speaking at cross-purposes, I think that\u2019s something we can all agree on. I think, fundamentally, all of us in this House actually agree on the point that we do not want to be criminalising the people who are addicted to these substances. But, unfortunately, at present, this is what this piece of legislation does, because it does not recognise nor demarcate that often the people who end up using these substances, because they become addicted, end up actually getting involved in what can otherwise be termed a pyramid scheme. They become suppliers themselves to help feed their own habit, and, in turn, they end up cutting substances and making them more dangerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022143d2e3c9098466ea8457cb39bb3ba96\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: No, it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234d54869ac604ce29b6ba2ae625e7e5d\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Nicola Willis, that is what all of the evidence shows, and I can send that through to you. I would love for you to speak to the evidence, to any evidence at all that increasing penalties\u2014I would like to hear from either the member in charge of the bill, Simeon Brown, or any National Party members that increasing penalties will have any impact on drug harm, because all of the evidence demonstrates the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo that brings me to the three Supplementary Order Papers in my name. I think that they\u2019re incredibly valuable for sake of debate on particularly this point about reducing drug harm, which is this proposed premise of the piece of legislation that the member Simeon Brown has brought before us today. The first, Supplementary Order Paper 159, I would like to think that the National Party would support, given the position that they have put forward that they don\u2019t want to criminalise users, because this amendment removes the criminal offence of possession of personal psychoactive substances by deleting section 71. I would love to hear from the member in charge, in follow-up to the question that I earlier posed: if the member does support a genuine health-based approach for people who are using and addicted to these substances, then will the member support Supplementary Order Paper 159 in my name?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe other two Supplementary Order Papers 160 and 161 are kind of two sides of the same coin. Supplementary Order Paper 160 changes clause 4 to provide that the sentence is a maximum of eight years imprisonment only if an individual has been convicted also of illegal manufacture and importation, because I believe that\u2019s the heart of what the member and the National Party are attempting to get to with this legislation. The very name and title of the legislation as it was put forward is Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill. The arguments that are being put forward are around targeting the supply chain. So surely my Supplementary Order Paper 160 should be something that is genuinely considered by the member and by the National Party votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo on the flip side of that is Supplementary Order Paper 161, also in my name, and it requires the court to consider a lack of involvement in manufacture or importation of psychoactive substances as a mitigating factor for the purposes of sentencing. That\u2019s something I think it\u2019s really important to drive home and to make clear to those who are listening in the gallery tonight or, indeed, at home, potentially on Parliament TV or otherwise. Most people are unaware of how the sentencing process works, and that is at the core of this member\u2019s bill around increasing the penalty from two years to eight years. The member in charge of this bill has progressed the argument multiple times that this simply allows judges or courts more discretion when they are looking at sentencing somebody. What we are providing for in these Supplementary Order Papers are a number of named, explicit, mitigating, or aggravating factors in sentencing somebody for a crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo to make it clear to those who are listening, the sentencing process is the first step when you go before a court. You are found guilty or not guilty. Sentencing is a process that occurs after that, and it\u2019s actually how we end up with a whole bunch of strange oddities in our law\u2014for example, the way that two people can end up being found guilty of the same crime, but one person can end up with home detention and another can end up going to prison. So those sentencing factors come in the form of aggravating and mitigating factors, and I touched on a number of those mitigating factors in Supplementary Order Paper 162 in the name of Kiritapu Allan in my earlier contribution. These mitigating factors around considering whether somebody has been involved in the manufacture or importation of these psychoactive substances, I think, really go to the heart of what it is that Simeon Brown, the member in charge of this legislation, is progressing tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo if I can summarise, the questions that I have\u2014primarily the first question that I want answered by the member in charge, Simeon Brown, are, firstly, does the National Party support treating those who use or are addicted to drugs with a therapeutic approach? If so, will the member consider supporting Supplementary Order Paper 159 in my name? But I would really like to have that first part of the question answered. The second is: will the member consider Supplementary Order Papers 160 and 161?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00225f958b0f98434ae5b433ac28e757d5c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f958b0f98434ae5b433ac28e757d5c6\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to follow on from Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick in terms of my Supplementary Order Paper 175, which also takes a health-based approach to this issue. What it proposes is that a judge can adjourn the proceedings at any time after someone\u2019s been convicted of an offence but before imposing a sentence to find more information about the opportunities for rehabilitation, and that\u2019s either in custody or in the community, and also where the offender is in need of health\u2014including mental health\u2014services to look at whether those services are best delivered in custody or in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI actually agree with the intent of this bill, which is to reduce the huge impact that synthetic drugs are having in our community, but if we\u2019re going to be doing something about it and taking this whole process through Parliament, we\u2019ve actually got to make sure that any intervention we put in place actually works, and the problem we\u2019ve got here is one where you\u2019ve got somebody who may be a dealer but simultaneously is actually using synthetic drugs and then has become addicted to those drugs and then has become involved in the supply side in order to fund their habit. We\u2019re not going to have any impact by just increasing penalties if you\u2019re dealing with an underlying addiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI just want to talk about the story of Emma. Her story appeared in the New Zealand Herald in September last year. Emma\u2014I don\u2019t think it\u2019s her real name\u2014basically said that when the whole synthetics issue started, she hated everything about it. She said she was very anti the drug and would never use it. Then, suddenly, she found that her and her partner were using up to an ounce a day. She said, \u201CThe first time I tried it, I didn\u2019t actually like it.\u201D, but then, over time\u2014she wasn\u2019t actually aware when the addiction actually started. But once it had started and kicked in, it was really, really hard to stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo in a short time, Emma and her partner were addicted and were spending about a thousand dollars a week on their combined habit. To fund that, they started selling synthetics, because she said they had to find some way of paying for their addiction. So within a month, her partner went from just using it to running a business 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Basically, Emma decided that she couldn\u2019t face that addiction any longer and she went cold turkey and stopped, but it took her partner another eight months to actually stop using synthetics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think that at the time this story was written in the New Zealand Herald, Emma had been free of drugs for about two years, but she said that every day she lived with that guilt about what she\u2019d put into her community. So I think in cases like this, what we\u2019re dealing with is actually an underlying addiction. I don\u2019t think that tougher penalties are going to turn that situation around. So this is why we need to take that health-based approach that Chl\u00F6e was speaking about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022432419ed9ee24f7aa9b3d6dcac5f32ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s proper name, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229292e6a7118e44f48e0de32d12c974b3\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and what it does is it allows the judge to consider, where an offender is in need of health or mental health services, what options are available to that offender and whether they\u2019re best served in custody or the community. So I really encourage the member in charge of this bill to consider that health-based approach as we move forward. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022939e74677bcc42a4b8e7a30523a0f538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022939e74677bcc42a4b8e7a30523a0f538\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to take a shortish call, really, to speak to the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) in my name, SOP 167. The reason that I want to talk about this particular Supplementary Order Paper is that it follows on from some of what Dr Webb and Miss Swarbrick and Dr Craig have been talking about\u2014the research, the evidence, what we actually really ought to be doing in the field of synthetic drugs or psychoactive substances\u2014and it fits with a compassionate response to treating addiction as a health issue, not as a criminal issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe particular Supplementary Order Paper recognises that people who use drugs often supply drugs on the side, as a minor side matter, and that very often the drugs that are found on a person are, in fact, for the person\u2019s personal use. The worry is that if someone is found with a sufficient quantity of drugs but they\u2019re for personal use, they might be characterised as holding those drugs for the purpose of supply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d5ab2dee1d347ddae1e4a053d86fc9b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a presumption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261b7e1a13cc54410a59889dc6470227f\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014that\u2019s right. And under Mr Brown\u2019s proposed bill, that person, even though the drugs were there for the person\u2019s own personal use, would nevertheless be charged with supply and end up with an eight-year penalty. That is disproportionate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELeaving aside worries about two years versus eight years and the like, this particular Supplementary Order Paper proposes that \u201CFor the purposes of subsection (1)(c),\u201D\u2014of section 70 of the principal Act\u2014\u201Cwhere a person is an individual who frequently uses a psychoactive substance, the court should presume that any psychoactive substances possessed by the person are intended for personal use only.\u201D So we start by presuming that the drugs are for the person\u2019s own use. Now, of course, that can be defeated. It can be shown that the drugs are, in actual fact, for commercial supply. It can be shown that the person is intending to make money off them by preying on vulnerable people by selling drugs themselves, but it also asks us to remember that people who use and deal drugs at the same time are themselves vulnerable users. So we want to start with that presumption\u2014that the person whom the drugs are found on is actually a user themselves, that because they are a user they are a vulnerable person, and that they are entitled to some consideration in respect of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo what it means is that if you show that the psychoactive substances are intended for personal use only, then I believe that under the Act as it stands, the penalty that would apply would be a $200 fine. That\u2019s absolutely consistent with a lot of what we do elsewhere in the laws in this country where we have something that sits between a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket and incarceration, which is a severe penalty. We actually do use fines, substantially, in order to kind of reach that space where a person is not engaged in criminal activity, or is not engaged in anything that demands a heavy penalty but nevertheless perhaps needs a reprimand of some sort. So by starting with the presumption that a person is a user and, therefore, a vulnerable person, we just start at the level of an infringement. That presumption can be defeated, and in that case the penalties for supply would stand if the person was convicted. That does seem to be an appropriate way to sort of wend our way through the difficulties of this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo I would very much appreciate it if Mr Brown would address this particular issue and address the issues that have been raised by people who are expert in this area: Dr Webb, Dr Craig, and Miss Swarbrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce0f7e18c1794fa691149b1e6beef49c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce0f7e18c1794fa691149b1e6beef49c\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to start by congratulating the member in the chair, Simeon Brown, for attempting to do something about this. We are all, as electorate MPs, faced every day with people who come into our office and we want to do something about it. Now, we like to send them away with a solution, but solutions, as we learn\u2014a quick fix; \u201Cjust add water and stir\u201D - type solutions\u2014are not generally those that are available to us because, if they were that easy, then they wouldn\u2019t have ended up in our office so often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EComing to clause 4 of this bill, the sentencing option, so often in the history of law enforcement and particularly those who make the laws, we look for that easy fix\u2014something that is going to look good, something we\u2019re going to feel good about, and something that we can probably reassure those who come to us with problems with. However, one advantage of standing here with a little grey hair, having seen a little bit in my 40 years in the police\u2014I was a police officer in the 1970s, when we had a major heroin problem in this country. We had heroin deaths. The signs or the symptoms of a heroin problem are generally overdose deaths\u2014that\u2019s how you really know you\u2019ve got a problem. There will be crime, there\u2019ll be others associated, but really, ultimately, it\u2019s those who die because of overdose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn the 1970s, when I was a young police officer in this very town, we had major problems with heroin overdoses, and that was happening around the country. I wasn\u2019t really aware of the political environment at that time, but the debate was something of the same outcry, and the sentence for heroin dealing went to life imprisonment. It still is on the books now as life imprisonment, and it made no difference at all. As a result of that, the deaths continued. In fact, in Wellington, we had a bigger problem, because in Auckland, there was a homicide that resulted in a lot of pressure going on heroin dealers, not around the sentencing but around trying to solve the homicide. So Wellington became full of heroin addicts and, of course, dealers, and we ended up with a raft of deaths similar to where we are today. That life sentence made no difference whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhat actually did make a difference was when the Mr Asia syndicate collapsed, because they had become so effective at bringing heroin into New Zealand\u2014so good at what they did\u2014that they\u2019d squeezed out all the opposition. So when they fell apart in the late 1970s and early 1980s, all of a sudden there was no heroin in New Zealand. New Zealand heroin addicts jumped on a plane and went to Australia. That is when we got a really bad name over there. So while I may sound like I\u2019m drifting a little from clause 4, this is all about the sentencing and the ineffectiveness of the sentencing. I was anticipating a rebuke, Madam Chair, but I\u2019m pleased to see that that\u2019s not coming my way\u2014but back to the subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn that case\u2014and I was probably, it\u2019s fair to say, a much younger man in those days and didn\u2019t quite have the broad outline\u2014it\u2019s when you get to the stage when you sit and reflect on those things you\u2019ve learnt that I know that, again, going back to this bill and what it is attempting to fix, it won\u2019t actually fix anything. I\u2019ve sat on the select committee, and we\u2019re well aware of the terrible stories out there. I\u2019ve had family members who have been involved in this. Interestingly, in the history of the sentencing when the problem was at its worst, in about 2011-12, that first piece of legislation went through. It did actually fix the problem in the short term, because the suppliers, of course, were legitimate suppliers, and when they were taken out of the market, there was actually no one who filled the gap at that time. There\u2019s a history of how we got to where we are that\u2019s for another time perhaps. It does not really come within clause 4 of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ECan I just encourage the member that while he will be doing this for the right reason, and certainly he will have had people come into his office, this won\u2019t fix anything, and the worst thing about it is that we will end up thinking, \u201CWell, we\u2019ve done that, fixed that, let\u2019s go on to the next problem.\u201D Unfortunately, it will not solve anything. It will stop us from really addressing the issue\u2014those issues that my colleagues have talked about and the fact of why people end up using these substances in the first place. It is something that, really, generally affects the lower socioeconomic part of New Zealand\u2014those who probably, for the rest of their lives, will not be in great shape. So using these substances is just another part of that. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002210dff99f45554fd0bc8a9218b32258aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210dff99f45554fd0bc8a9218b32258aa\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I too rise to make a shortish contribution on this bill, but the place I want to start, I guess, is that no member in this House denies the fact that there\u2019s a huge amount of harm in New Zealand as a result of these psychoactive substances. What we on this side of the House are arguing is that this particular bill is not going to change things. I can\u2019t remember who it was who said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result\u2014I think it might have been Einstein\u2014but that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re doing here. Internationally, if you look at the trends, if you look at the evidence, Governments are moving away from this punitive approach and towards a health approach for a reason, because that\u2019s what\u2019s working\u2014not this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to echo the comments made by the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who said, \u201CShow us the evidence.\u201D Where is that compelling evidence that increasing sentencing alone as an ad hoc measure is actually going to fix the problem? The problem\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfd3bed9df34d4a9b4fe74b7cd39caa\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the evidence that it doesn\u2019t?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299a5da7bbc784a27adfc006f5831df1f\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not compelling. There is no compelling evidence, because then, if you look at the fact that this is about locking people up for longer and throwing away the key, potentially\u2014how has that helped? If that were the answer to all our problems when it comes to offending, then the fact that our incarceration rate in New Zealand has been sky high should have actually fixed the problem, but it hasn\u2019t, has it? So that\u2019s not the key. There is so much more that needs to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EActually, back on that point about locking people with addictions up\u2014because that\u2019s exactly what this bill is going to extend\u2014we have 62 percent of our prisoners in New Zealand who have either a mental health issue or a substance abuse issue, and 20 percent who have both. What this bill does, and going back again to a point that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick made as well\u2014and this takes me back actually to a submission that was made to the Justice Committee. I was on that select committee for a portion of time while this bill was being considered by the committee. We had a submitter who came to us and told us about the work that they do on the streets of South Auckland, where they\u2019ve seen issues of people who have been supplying psychoactive substances as well. This is cheap, nasty stuff. These are potent drugs that are made cheaply. They\u2019re cheap to manufacture. Those who supply them are not supplying them to become millionaires; most of them are supplying and selling to feed an addiction that they have. So that\u2019s the point that members opposite don\u2019t seem to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhen the Hon Tim Macindoe stood up and said that he\u2019s strongly in support of this bill because it affects those who manufacture, sell, and supply psychoactive substances, with great respect I say that he is missing the point, because the point is that those who are selling and supplying are also those who are affected by the addiction issues here. So, by then putting them into prison when we have a huge percentage of prisoners already with mental health issues and substance abuse issues, how is that going to help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThat takes me to Supplementary Order Paper 168 in my name, which would replace clause 4 and amend it to add new clause 4(a)(ii), which says, \u201Cwhen sentencing under subparagraph (i), the court must have particular regard to the health, including mental health, of the offender:\u201D. This would actually provide a bit of sentencing guidance, as it were, to judges by recognising that in many cases, a higher penalty will not serve any useful purpose, because these people are already addicted and the reason they\u2019re selling is to feed the addiction. Many have mental health issues as well, and those are the underlying causes that are driving offending when it comes to psychoactive substances, which we must address if we are to make any meaningful change in reducing drug harm in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to emphasise once again that simply increasing the sentence from two years to eight years is an arbitrary measure that\u2019s just plucked out with no compelling evidence. I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s going to solve this issue. I think it\u2019s incredibly short-sighted and, therefore, I will not support the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022a20f3e2dad8c4d269de139d13e5661b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a20f3e2dad8c4d269de139d13e5661b2\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Kia orana. I want to put to the member in the chair, Simeon Brown, whether he has really, seriously considered the M\u0101ori dimension of his bill, because we know that in our prison population, M\u0101ori are overrepresented\u2014horrendously overrepresented\u2014in our mental health statistics, they\u2019re overrepresented; and in drug addiction and affliction, they are overrepresented as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan has put in an excellent Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), and it draws on a recent decision of the High Court in Solicitor-General v Heta. That is a very important decision, and I would ask the member whether he\u2019s had a chance to perhaps have a look at that or similar materials, because what it does is it lays bare the grievous effects that not all but many M\u0101ori have had through the, essentially, post-colonial lives that they\u2019re living, that in fact they have never had an opportunity to flourish in the way that many others\u2014and I suspect the member and I are amongst those others. That is a sentencing decision of Heta, and Justice Whata, using tools given in the Sentencing Act, looks in great detail at the broad spectrum of the life that Heta, who was a woman charged with assault and grievous bodily harm, had gone through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOne of the things I would ask is whether the member has carefully thought about the actual circumstances of the people who he is proposing to incarcerate for this extended period of time, and the fact that they are tangata whenua\u2014they are our Treaty partners\u2014in many cases, and that here we are doing something which I think really breaches the obligation of the Crown to care for, to respect, and to give rangatiratanga to our Treaty partners. I would absolutely ask him to look very carefully at Kiritapu Allan\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, because what it does\u2014and there are a number of aspects to it. One is in respect of the offending and the personal circumstances of the offender, and their cultural setting is something that Heta says should be taken into account. So that is the personal circumstances question. Then there is the question of restorative justice, and Heta makes it clear that a restorative justice process and one that, perhaps, is in an appropriate cultural setting will also be appropriate, but also sets out the wairua, the spiritual dimension of the wrongdoing, and the hauora, the health dimension\u2014it puts it in a M\u0101ori setting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat this one-line amendment to the Psychoactive Substances Act does is it entirely ignores those very important factors. So I really invite the member to stand and answer the question: what will this do in terms of the Crown\u2019s obligation to M\u0101ori? Does he accept that the people who will be most adversely affected by this amendment will be Treaty partners, and I\u2019d ask him, what steps does he think are consistent with the Treaty that this bill does? Will he support Kiritapu Allan\u2019s bill, which\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f4c2b0d4757457c93ca7ec147d79881\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcbede8da6bf43a0afef0d474e75347f\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014SOP\u2014accepts Mr Brown\u2019s eight years in there but also says, \u201CLook at all of these other matters.\u201D Te taha wairua, te taha wh\u0101nau\u2014the family aspect. What family setting do the offenders come from? What are their relationships with iwi and hap\u016B? Te taha hinengaro\u2014the psychological aspect: what is the spiritual and psychological setting in which the offending took account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, Mr Brown, what are you doing here? Have you taken these important matters into account, because I think you are harming an important relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022628684d889664617b508739dd2aae711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022628684d889664617b508739dd2aae711\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229363c30151e04c24bdd7992048558805\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0aae8e665254828aee034247505bf24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0aae8e665254828aee034247505bf24\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I\u2019d just like to continue on the theme that I explored in my last five minutes on my feet\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4f1622e2114317864afc521c2c1425\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: As long as it\u2019s not repetitious, that would be fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f4c4ab1e2644d8b0624fd3c62ab1ea\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in relation to clause 4. In relation to that, I would like to ask the member in the chair, Simeon Brown, if he has looked at the effect of moving the sentencing for dealing in heroin to life imprisonment in the 1970s and seen if there\u2019s any evidence that it had any effect at all on the use of, price, and availability of heroin in New Zealand at that time, because that moves us on to the whole sentencing regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI have been in the police for some time, and unlike some of my colleagues, I see a role\u2014an important role\u2014for imprisonment. I see an important role for smart imprisonment. When the Sensible Sentencing Trust was formed, I had some dealings with them, and I remarked to them at the time\u2014I said, \u201CYou\u2019ve named yourselves very well: \u2018Sensible Sentencing\u2019 \u201D. Unfortunately, what happened with the Sensible Sentencing Trust is they became the \u201CLonger Sentencing Trust\u201D. All that they ever talked about was longer sentences, and they lost a really important opportunity to be an important part of that sentencing debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESmarter sentencing really means that short, sharp sentences are often more effective because, particularly when it comes to drugs and particularly drug dealing, it is the disruptive effect of removing someone from their environment. They will undoubtedly owe a lot of people money, they\u2019ll undoubtedly be owed a lot of money, and removing them from their environment means that all of a sudden, that whole environment, that whole drug-dealing enterprise they\u2019re in, is disrupted. That is the effective way to use prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn New York, following the changes that they made around the well-known or so-called broken windows theory, the effects were quite dramatic on the streets of New York. I was lucky enough to spend time in New York to look at the sentencing, and I compare this with clause 4 of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229225eb149f024e489867bfaeef672287\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019d be good if you could come to the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229855f86c4f3f4e6dbac34ded020d2d13\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I looked at the sentencing there, and what they found was that, actually, their prisons were full. They went to the prisons and said, \u201CLet them out. We don\u2019t care. Actually catching them is more important.\u201D It is more important\u2014the fact of jail. It is more important, when we catch these people committing crime, that we\u2019re able to send them to prison\u2014didn\u2019t matter how long; send them out the top end, and we will catch you. If they recycle in, we\u2019ll catch them again. That was what had the biggest effect. It\u2019s a well-known\u2014and, again, don\u2019t rely on my experience; this is well through the research. It is the fear of getting caught or, more importantly, the belief you\u2019ll get caught which is more important than the sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I go back to clause 4 of this bill, which is around merely increasing the sentence. What that does and will do, ultimately, is prevent the system from using something that can actually be a very effective tool in preventing the dealing, in particular, and disrupting the whole flow of drugs, because disruption\u2019s about getting people off. Sending them to jail for eight years actually risks doing the very thing that we don\u2019t want to do. It means the prisons do become more full. It means that those that should be coming at the front end\u2014it makes it more difficult to do that. We end up having to build more prisons and we lose the real effective part of what sentencing can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not to say there are not people, of course, that should be in prison and should never see the light of day, and I think we\u2019ve got some effective methods in place to make sure that happens. But I would suggest that merely looking to solve any problem by making the sentence longer is to ignore so many other possibilities that can be effective. In doing so, and going back to clause 4 of this bill\u2014and it is that part of a bill that is most significant which is being most heavily debated tonight. By doing that, by seeing that as some sort of panacea of all ills, the thing that is going to fix things overnight\u2014just add water and stir\u2014then that will deny us the opportunity to use sentencing for what it should be used for, which is to disrupt criminal activity and, in this case, to decrease the chances of those vulnerable, mostly youth getting hold of this substance in the first place. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u002230d48478083b4a05acf92367c2e45ff8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230d48478083b4a05acf92367c2e45ff8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad72c9282764ed4a6aa2f18d7aa1212\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: E Te M\u0101ngai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6911ce03b4f49d09f481fd509878650\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I just have to check how many calls the member has taken. Remember, this is clause 4 with the debate continued, so we just have to check that. However\u2014would you just resume your seat\u2014I just want to send a very clear message to the committee: repeating the same sentence several ways within the same call does not make that an effective call. [Interruption] This will be heard in silence. It might cause the members some amusement, but this is very serious. We want to hear new debates, new arguments. This particular clause has been debated for some time now, and I have to sit and listen to all of the debates and all of the arguments. So I\u2019m looking for fresh material or I will sit members down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc857cf48264e52afb86e430740708b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc857cf48264e52afb86e430740708b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I am happy to progress a new argument.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7193f5b9bc740e0ac0caf2561c40f6e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: And this is your final\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b58fb165db40259110238b9cc532a0\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: This is my final call. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe one question that still remains in my mind, given the numerous questions that I have put before the member and, indeed, before members of the National Party, who have taken no qualms with heckling throughout the contributions of other members, or laughing or scoffing, is: why have National Party members or the member in charge not risen to respond to any of the deeply serious questions that have been put around the impact and the evidence that clause 4 will have on reducing drug harm and, indeed, in reducing the harm proliferated in our communities by way of synthetics? Does the National Party agree with treating drug use and addiction as a health issue? And where is the evidence that the proposition, or the supposed solution, contained within clause 4\u2014to increase penalties\u2014will make any dent whatsoever on reducing the harm of synthetic substances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want to ask the member: who believes that what is being proposed in clause 4 will make a difference? Who believes that what is being progressed in clause 4 will make a difference, because it was put earlier by the Hon Tim Macindoe that the police believe that it will make a difference. As I raised in the select committee submission from the New Zealand Police Association, the police in this country do not believe that this will make a difference\u2014that solely increasing penalties will have any impact on reducing drug harm. Academics don\u2019t believe that increasing penalties will make a dent in reducing drug harm. Addiction services and specialists don\u2019t believe that increasing penalties, as proposed in clause 4 of National Party member Simeon Brown\u2019s bill, will make any impact in reducing drug harm. Not even those who are former addicts or who have engaged in harmful drug behaviour believe that this will have an impact in reducing drug harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo if it\u2019s not police, if it is not academics, if it is not addiction and drug-abuse specialists, and if it is not even people who have been formerly engaged in the criminal black market who believe that this will have any impact in reducing drug crime, who believes that it will reduce drug harm and the harm proliferated in communities throughout Aotearoa New Zealand by synthetics? The remaining answer is politicians\u2014politicians who are giving false hope to New Zealanders around this country that this represents any form of solution\u2014because the evidence and the research backs up that this will not have any impact as far as affordability or access to the substances go. Greg O\u2019Connor, former chair of the New Zealand Police Association, spoke of his front-line experience with regards to heroin and reclassifying that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c94eb357736c45c593fcc1c0e3db894f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and we are straying into repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b12529a8cfb413dae8a16c97bc45801\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: I want to speak, Madam Chair, to the debate that I\u2019ve raised with regards to reclassification of methamphetamine, because that has been correlated in debates in the public to the issue that we have with regards to synthetics and why we need to increase penalties. When we increased penalties for methamphetamine to life imprisonment, we didn\u2019t see a reduction in harm and, in fact, we didn\u2019t actually see a reduction in usage, because Ministry of Health data demonstrates that usage data fluctuated to actually increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, if it is not police, if it is not academics, and if it is not addiction specialists, I put it to the member to be bold and brave enough to stand up and speak to any shred of evidence that he has that this will do anything to reduce harm. Does he have any evidence at all that solely increasing penalties will save lives, because it is not the police, it is not addiction specialists, it is not those who are at the front lines dealing with this issue at the coalface, and I am so concerned that what this represents is false hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022813b0dcbff38458abb4748ef7474c94c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022813b0dcbff38458abb4748ef7474c94c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Sometimes when these bills come to the committee, we ask members in the chair questions, and because none of the questions from this side of the Chamber have been answered, I think we will try in vain to ask a couple more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Hon Tim Macindoe, in an earlier contribution after I spoke, asked me what my local police might think about this issue, and I think that\u2019s a fair enough question. So, about a month ago, I spent an afternoon and an evening with our local police in an incident car, just to get an idea of what they were dealing with and how much time and influence synthetic cannabis has on a daily shift.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe question that I would like to put to Mr Brown is: if you think that clause 4 changing the sentencing from two years to eight years is going to change the thought pattern and the psychology of those dealing synthetic cannabis, when was the last time you got any feedback from people who are selling synthetic cannabis? On that afternoon and evening that I spent with my local police, we happened by chance to run into some locals who I think the local police considered to be heavy in the trade, I should say. We managed to spend a little bit of time talking to them, and my message to Mr Brown, in a very simple sense, is I don\u2019t think they\u2019ll care that the sentence is going to increase from two to eight years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn their calculation of when they are dealing the drugs, the sentence of getting caught doesn\u2019t really factor high in their motivation for selling the drugs. I\u2019ll tell you what does: profits do. But also what rates higher in their calculation, I\u2019m assuming, is whether or not they might get caught. In that afternoon that I spent with police, when we ran into them, they looked pretty sheepish about their interaction with the local constabulary. They were worried about getting caught. They knew that they were being monitored, but I would hazard a guess, from the type of conversation that I witnessed and the interaction, that they couldn\u2019t give two hoots if this Parliament increased the sentence from two years to eight years, and that is the reality of the piece of legislation that is before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI think Mr Brown may be introducing this with good intentions, hoping that the people who might get caught might change their thought process to say \u201CWell, Simeon Brown has changed the sentence from two years to eight years, so I\u2019m not going to deal drugs or synthetic cannabis any more.\u201D, and I would put to that member that that would be some wishful thinking, unfortunately. But I think that\u2019s the reality of the thought process and the psychology of the people that are dealing synthetic cannabis. What they do need at the front line, as my friend who spent decades on the front line said, is more enforcement and some confidence in the eyes of the public that if they are dealing synthetic cannabis, they\u2019re going to get caught. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ETo the earlier contribution that I made where I spoke to some local principals, we really care about the people who are being victimised in all of this: those people who are suffering mental health and who are suffering at the hands of this drug. You\u2019ve got to deal with this issue from both ends, but increasing the sentence\u2014I\u2019m sorry, Mr Brown\u2014I don\u2019t think will make the foggiest difference to those who are selling the drugs in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo to Mr Macindoe, I think it was a good question to ask, as to what our police think, and going out on the front line and actually interacting with some of these people who we think are dealing in these drugs\u2014this piece of legislation won\u2019t make one iota of difference. Well-intentioned as it may be, the reality is this will not enter the thought process of those people who are dealing these drugs. If you want to get real about tackling them, then I think some of the actions that we\u2019re taking by increasing the numbers of police on the front line are going to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI think Mr Brown knows deep down that if we pass this legislation\u2014and I\u2019m not sure if it will\u2014it won\u2019t make any difference whatsoever. Other measures need to be taken to make sure we crack down on the dealing. I think a lot of the debate in and around this piece of legislation has focused on making sure we have sufficient support for those vulnerable people in our community who are being seriously harmed by synthetic cannabis. Nice try, Mr Brown, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to make any difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8e6a2d5e7e64b37b677abcd9489f51f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8e6a2d5e7e64b37b677abcd9489f51f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for an opportunity take a call on this, the committee stage on clause 4. I would like to note that this is the third evening we have been debating this in the committee stage and that I have already taken calls on this clause in previous evenings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI would like to remind the committee that this bill is about targeting suppliers, manufacturers, and dealers of synthetic drugs, and that a number of the Supplementary Order Papers try to seek to make significant changes to what would be the Sentencing Act. I would ask members whether those changes that they seek to make represent their new Government policy in regards to the justice reforms. I\u2019d also like to point the committee to the sentencing guidelines from Justice Brewer of the High Court, who has already very clearly outlined clear guidelines around how those who are convicted of supplying synthetic drugs should be treated, and that it depends on the amount of drugs, the circumstances of the individual, whether there is an intent to make a profit, and whether the supply is of a size which is on a commercial scale. So there\u2019s a range of different factors which have already been provided by the High Court in their sentencing notes and their guidelines from Justice Brewer, which I would encourage members to read in terms of ensuring that they know that the courts already take those factors into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI guess the purpose of this bill is to ensure that we are targeting the suppliers and dealers and manufacturers of this drug. Currently, if you are found guilty of supplying synthetic drugs, the maximum penalty is two years in jail. If you\u2019re supplying cannabis, it\u2019s eight years in jail. There is a complete mismatch here in our legislation. This bill seeks to address that, to give powers to our law enforcement agencies to target those who are making money from people\u2019s misery and address the significant harm caused by these drugs. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00221f9c89f5f3f44809b142245f4b65e46c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f9c89f5f3f44809b142245f4b65e46c\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 23 in the name of Darroch Ball to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c93bffb3139a4071a11c6a6a6df64fee\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00225ad08c40ed914864a22e1c3691d5d2b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ad08c40ed914864a22e1c3691d5d2b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s tabled amendment replacing \u201C8 years\u201D with \u201C2 years\u201D and with special direction to the court to impose rehabilitative and reintegrative conditions on any sentences is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 160 in the name of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022728b8a621bb2445cbed36f8d41c2b71a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000611\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 161 in the name of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b04893217ba649a8be3ad24cb2217ec9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00221e94b7ae5fe647cfb463d3ded900b4cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e94b7ae5fe647cfb463d3ded900b4cd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Kiritapu Allan\u2019s amendment replacing clause 4, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 162, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 167 in the name of Dr Deborah Russell to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f4ed07d402ef405aac4d5089650799c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022328a50dd9b6b4b70bafbd6a385343a76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022328a50dd9b6b4b70bafbd6a385343a76\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s amendment replacing clause 4, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 168, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s amendment replacing clause 4, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 169, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment to replace clause 4 to require the court to have regard to health and mental health services, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 170, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment to replace clause 4 to require the court to consider any non-custodial rehabilitation plan, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 174, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 175 in the name of Dr Liz Craig to clause 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022dbb049bff1ab48e7844a524075f3b160\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222de5abfec8914a24b70efef1defb15d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 4 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 65\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand First 9; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9fa90cf132b4f468f2b7c1b4dda4311\u0022\u003ENew clauses 5 to 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022211124d3a30648f8ab25290eaa2f4ed6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022211124d3a30648f8ab25290eaa2f4ed6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 159 inserting new clauses 5 to 9 are out of order as out of scope of the bill. Members, we will not be debating these amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002285d142361d524821b24090d43e90f20f\u0022\u003EArbitration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3013da62922477dad121022734fe710\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002299bba8cb0a904ad8bee42dce46597cef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299bba8cb0a904ad8bee42dce46597cef\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arbitration Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an absolute pleasure to be talking on the Arbitration Amendment Bill, second reading. This is, in fact, the first time that I\u2019ve had the opportunity to talk on this bill. This is because this bill was originally introduced under the name of my former colleague Paul Foster-Bell in mid-2017. Unfortunately, Paul is no longer a member of the House, and he asked me to continue to steer this bill through the House, which I gladly accepted. So this bill has had a long gestation period just to get to this second reading stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe original genesis of this bill came from members of the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand Inc. At this stage, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the significant contributions of the renowned arbiters such as Sir David Williams QC and Mr John Walton. They and other members of the institute quite rightly highlighted that New Zealand has an enviable reputation as a place to do business. International commercial arbitration has grown significantly in the last 20 years, and promoting New Zealand arbitration, New Zealand arbiters themselves, New Zealand law, and New Zealand as a destination for conducting international commercial arbitrations is consistent with the policies of both our Government and the previous Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut improving arbitration proceedings generally in New Zealand is also an important objective. This is because when disputes arise, many New Zealanders genuinely want to be able to access a professionally run alternative resolution process rather than having to immediately resort to going to the courts. There are many reasons for this, and they are varied. Arbitration is a bona fide option, as it offers the following advantages: it\u2019s, first of all, a much cheaper process for resolving disputes; it\u2019s often much quicker compared to a court process; it\u2019s less confrontational; and it\u2019s logical as a first step in seeking to resolve disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat many people do not know is that our arbitration rules in New Zealand are based on the United Nations Commission on International Trade Law model law. In fact, New Zealand was one of the first countries in the world to adopt the 2006 amendments. We also ratified the 1958 New York Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards, and we are regional leaders in arbitration. However, having got ourselves into that leadership position, places such as Singapore, Hong Kong, and increasingly Pacific Island States such as Fiji have and will deliberately target their respective areas as centres to undertake international arbitration dispute hearings. In fact, the Asian Development Bank is actively seeking to support Pacific nations to improve their standing and adopt the model law legislation. The reason for this is that it\u2019s highly desirable. Big international arbitration disputes regularly cost over a million dollars per case and naturally benefit local experts. It also enhances the country\u2019s reputation as a place where local laws are regarded as robust and fair, and enhance the country generally. These attributes are exactly what New Zealand offers, and this bill seeks to promote that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, there are some aspects of our current legislation that need to be reformed. I\u2019m grateful that the Justice Committee has agreed to address some of these issues. In reaching this position, the committee was advised by the Hon Paul Heath QC\u2014a retired High Court judge\u2014as well as hearing submissions from a range of participants involved in New Zealand arbitration. The agreed changes are, first of all, to avoid a late jurisdictional objection\u2014this is article 16(4) in schedule 1, inserted by clause 6(1)\u2014to deal with the issue of parties to arbitration deliberately using a provision to wait until the end of the arbitration proceedings and, if they\u2019re unhappy with the outcome, to then claim that the arbitration tribunal did not have the jurisdiction to rule on the proceedings. This clause seeks to specify that a party must make a timely request\u2014and that\u2019s the insertion\u2014on the tribunal\u2019s jurisdiction, otherwise that right is lost. It\u2019s an important aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second change that\u2019s been agreed to is the application to set aside as recourse against an award, and this is covered in an amendment to article 34 in schedule 1. The committee agreed with the need to replace the reference to \u201Cthe schedule\u201D with \u201Cthe Act\u201D, as this amendment corrects the original drafting of the 1996 Act, which incorrectly used the word \u201Cschedule\u201D rather than \u201CAct\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third aspect is what is commonly referred to as the \u201Cquick-draw procedure\u201D. Clause 1 of schedule 2 in the Act sets out default procedures for the appointment of arbiters where parties have reached no agreement as to the appointment. This appointment process, commonly referred to as the \u201Cquick-fire appointment process\u201D, allows one party to the proceedings to appoint the arbiter if they\u2019re quick enough in the process, and this is in conflict with the principles of good arbitration. The committee was keen to address this issue but was concerned that the issue was outside the scope of the bill\u2019s original intent. For this reason, the committee asked the Business Committee of Parliament to extend the powers of the committee of the whole House in considering the Arbitration Amendment Bill. I\u2019m again grateful that the Business Committee agreed to allow the committee to address this issue and has proposed to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper at the time that this bill is considered in the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other aspect is around confidentiality. Madam Deputy Speaker, I\u2019m just worried about the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0a65e6e403416c9033c490bfc37463\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have the correct time, so you keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264152733aba043b48213d534f9d83e69\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: You have? OK. Whilst these changes are important, they still put New Zealand at a disadvantage when it comes to trying to attract investment arbitration disputes to New Zealand. The core issue is the risk that if arbitration proceedings fail, then the New Zealand courts operate on a rebuttable presumption of open justice\u2014that is, all evidence is heard in open court hearings. Privacy and confidentiality are frequently cited as defining characteristics and valuable benefits of arbitration over litigation. In fact, a recent survey said that 87 respondents in the international arbitration survey believed that confidentiality is one of the most important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOther jurisdictions in the Trans-Pacific region\u2014and, notably, Singapore and Hong Kong\u2014have enacted legislation and developed arbitration law that has, as a major feature, provisions for the protection of confidentiality in court hearings related to international arbitration proceedings. Given the quality of our legal profession and particularly those involved in arbitration, this represents a real loss of commercial opportunity for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe recommendation that I propose is that New Zealand not overturn the important principle of rebuttable presumption of open justice, but to give judges more discretion when deciding whether or not to proceed to hear international arbitration cases in private. The clause I proposed was an insertion to section 14H. This was an important aspect, in my view, as it would have provided some flexibility for New Zealand judges to respect the rights of international parties who choose to undertake their international arbitration proceedings in New Zealand. And, of course, such a change would ensure that New Zealand would become a far more attractive destination for international arbitration awards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EUnfortunately I wasn\u2019t able to convince Government members of the advantages of this approach. Without such an amendment, we will still be at a significant disadvantage. However, we have made significant progress, and any progress is a good thing. I want to thank all the members of the committee and particularly the Hon Paul Heath QC for his support during this process, and, as a wider context, I\u2019m heartened that arbitration issues are also being dealt with in the Trusts Bill that the committee is currently considering. I look forward to debating and talking about this issue further. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5d1e6fdc9e94971929a6d9844e05fce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5d1e6fdc9e94971929a6d9844e05fce\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker. For the benefit of those newer members in the House: the timers up there are for your assistance. Actually, the Speaker controls the times, so the Speaker always has control of the clock. So even if they\u2019re not working, the Speaker is actually controlling the time\u2014you can rest assured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00220b8a37976ad94b5891633f7832e7cb2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b8a37976ad94b5891633f7832e7cb2f\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to start by acknowledging the member who has just resumed his seat. As the member who is sponsoring this bill, Mr Andrew Bayly should be feeling lucky, as seldom do members\u2019 bills, especially technically driven ones, attract so much attention. On that note, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the initial sponsor of this member\u2019s bill, Mr Paul Foster-Bell, who is present in the House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI want to thank our officials, advisers, and PCO\u2014the Parliamentary Counsel Office. Without their knowledge, experience, input, and, should I add, their patience, we could not have achieved what we have achieved now. I want to also thank the Minister Andrew Little for his leadership, support, and, should I add again, patience and tolerance, without which we cannot achieve what we have achieved in terms of both the substance and procedure in terms of the progress of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWe might have made history, or at least set a rather unusual precedent. If members are not quite sure about the historical side of that, at least members can agree that we had a very robust process and had robust debate and worked constructively on this bill. We considered two departmental reports: one from the advisers from the Ministry of Justice and another one from our independent adviser, the retired High Court Judge Justice Paul Heath QC. This bill has also attracted the attention of Chief Justice the Rt Hon Sian Elias. To a large extent, the views expressed by the Chief Justice have helped shape my own views and also others\u2019 views in terms of fundamental principles, as well as specific provisions proposed under this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELastly, this bill went all the way back to the Business Committee, where we as the Justice Committee sought advice and sought instruction from the Business Committee for that committee to determine whether a particular amendment to a provision which would be outside of the scope of the bill could be considered by the House, and the Business Committee has duly determined that the amendment could be considered by the House. That particular point concerns clause 1(4) of schedule 2 of the Arbitration Act 1996\u2014the primary legislation. The Justice Committee received strong representations from submitters that that clause should be repealed. That provision sets out a default procedure for the appointment of arbitrators where parties cannot agree. It gives rise to a problematic aspect called \u201Cquick-draw procedure\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELet me read out one direct quote from Paul Heath QC\u2019s report: \u201CIt would be undesirable for an arbitration that had continued for \u2026 months to be challenged successfully at a late[r] time on the basis that [Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand] had no power to make the appointment.\u201D That\u2019s a direct quote from QC Paul Heath\u2019s report, therefore clarity is required. However, the proposed repeal of clause 1(4) of schedule 2 is not contained in the bill, and a question of scope therefore arises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAnother important issue concerning this bill is open justice. Arbitrations are conducted in private by default, and confidential information cannot usually be disclosed. However, when arbitration proceedings are elevated to the court, our laws provide that proceedings are conducted in public by default, although a party can apply for private proceedings. One of the key and contentious proposals of the bill was to extend the presumption of confidentiality to cover court proceedings related to arbitration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWhat the advisers from the Ministry of Justice provided in the departmental report is that the current section 14F provides a process for a party to apply for a private hearing. Before ordering a private hearing, the court must consider, basically, three elements. The first one is public interest in the judgment, the second one is the private nature of arbitration, and the third one is the open justice principle. Paragraph 64 of the departmental report made it clear that where hearings are open to the public, the courts can still order that information not be published if there is a compelling reason to do so. As noted by law partner Jeremy Johnson during his oral submission, it is rare that courts will decline an application to anonymise their judgment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EI do not intend to spend too much of the House\u2019s time at this stage simply for two reasons: (a) I\u2019m very much looking forward to the committee of the whole House stage, where I understand certain Supplementary Order Papers will likely be introduced; and (b) I\u2019d like to come back to some other important issues, including open justice and also the views expressed in the two letters of the Chief Justice, which, again, helped to shape my own view and, I believe, shaped the committee\u2019s view. So I look forward to the progress of this bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u002216e5a6f05fd346fa8b09c91d0ce3a95a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216e5a6f05fd346fa8b09c91d0ce3a95a\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak to the second reading of the Arbitration Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs others have said, this has had a long gestation. If I could commend the sponsor of this bill, Andrew Bayly, for his hard work, tenacity, and not inconsiderable political skills in guiding this through a rather fraught process, and also to acknowledge the architect of this bill, Paul Foster-Bell, who is in the Chamber with us tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs a relatively recent person coming onto the Justice Committee and following on from our chair, I would have to say that this was full of technical complexities. We were dealing with the Trusts Bill at the same time and if members would like to look, this is a small amount of the paperwork that the arbitration bill generated. This is not to say that whole forests were chopped down in this bill coming to where it is tonight, but I would have to say that there were a number of technical disagreements around the way that this bill was originally conceived, and its interaction with the Trusts Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI absolutely agree with what the chair has just said, that we needed the influence and intervention and understanding of Minister Andrew Little. So I\u2019m very grateful that that occurred. We also had, bringing with him a great degree of intellectual rigor and legal experience, the Hon Christopher Finlayson QC, who also brought a lot of wisdom to this process, which was a long and involved one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt was a very pivotal turning point, I think, when the retired High Court judge, the honourable Paul Heath QC, came in to really pull this together. We could\u2019ve got bogged down, and we did, actually, in the international arbitration area. And I\u2019m not surprised. As somebody who didn\u2019t know very much about this area before I came into the committee, I\u2019d have to say we were fully lawyered up. We found out a lot about arbitration, how important it is as an effective resolution for commercial and other disputes, but also that there\u2019s not a great deal known about this in the world. Many nations have established arbitration centres, and apparently Hong Kong and Singapore are the best at that. But many other nations, perhaps a little bit like ours, are scrambling to establish themselves as arbitration hubs of one sort or another. So it was timely but complex and needed to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EArbitration is a very good thing on a whole lot of levels, one of which is that it reduces the caseload in the courts, therefore making it a more cost-effective method of resolution and the mediation of the international commercial disputes without jurisdictional issues, so I guess the least complex ones. International arbitration, which is the determination around cross-border disputes, is one of those areas that really has developed significantly and the issue of confidentiality was one of the most crucial ones that needed to be negotiated. There were, indeed, some very choppy waters that this particular bill had to circumnavigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs well as international, we\u2019ve also done regional conflict resolution, which is something that successive New Zealand Governments have really come around to acknowledging that it needs more support. So I think, for example, the model law that we adopted in 1996, which was \u201Cto encourage the use of arbitration as an agreed method of resolving commercial and other disputes;\u201D was something that has long been on the minds of lawmakers and legislators and we, as Andrew Bayly has indicated, had a number of very high-powered and high-level QCs and others who came in to give their wisdom. There was not always agreement. That was why it was very important to argue it through very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI was interested to find out that every arbitration case that\u2019s heard in New Zealand is worth, on average, $1 million dollars to the local economy. So there are incentives and perhaps perverse disincentives that can come to clash here. But such things as international conference venue hires, accommodation, food, travel, legal, and secretariat support is yet another industry, if you like, around this arbitration area that will also benefit from this legislation going through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo it is complicated. There are a number of issues that we will examine in more detail as we go through to the third reading and the committee of the whole House. But I would have to say, as an exercise in discussion which sought to get the best possible outcome for New Zealanders and for people who wanted to argue arbitration not before the full courts but to try and achieve some resolution, this is a bill that is very much needed in this country. So I commend its authors and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbc2d9c3bce74ce2b6d3b1876816a56f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbc2d9c3bce74ce2b6d3b1876816a56f\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Congratulations to a somewhat subdued Mr Bayly over at the other side of the House for getting his bill to this stage. As the Hon Maggie Barry said, he did so with some real political acumen, because certainly there were a number of tricky questions to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt must be remembered that arbitration is, in a sense, the privatisation of justice. I don\u2019t say that in a bad way, but it\u2019s taking the dispensing of justice outside of the public realm into the private realm. There are places where that is entirely appropriate. But one of the important philosophical threads, if I can say it, of the select committee procedure was the discussion around the importance of having the backstop of the courts retain their open justice principle. I can entirely understand why particularly large commercial parties would want to have a pretty much closed procedure for the resolution of their commercial disputes. Indeed, the court procedures themselves allow for this in some instances. But there is a very strong presumption, a right presumption, in favour of open justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMr Bayly made very persuasive arguments that didn\u2019t ultimately sway the day, but very persuasive arguments that there was business to be done, that we could create a market for arbitrations in New Zealand. I think the committee was rightly cautious in going down that path. Because whilst the court system is a precious resource, and whilst having international arbitrations is all very nice, and I absolutely encourage it, I\u2019m not sure that we should be selling our courts to international parties who have no connection with New Zealand, and thereby overburden the courts again. So, ultimately, the suggestion that there should be a presumption of secrecy in arbitrations did not find its way past the select committee. I must say the Chief Justice had provided very firm views, as entirely appropriate as the head of the courts, about the role of the courts, about the role of open justice. As the chair Mr Huo said, that was very persuasive indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other important part of this bill, and I don\u2019t want to be too negative, I want to explain, particularly from this side of the House, why the bill has not been adopted in its entirety. This was the use of arbitration in trust disputes. Now, once again, I am a huge advocate of alternative dispute resolution. We know that the earlier a dispute is settled at the lowest level of formality is pretty much always the best for all parties. Trust disputes pose particularly difficult problems for arbitration, problems that are addressed in the Trusts Bill, as Mr Bayly points out, but in slightly different ways. A really difficult problem is the fact that beneficiaries may not be identified or they may not be well represented. So we\u2019ve got to be really cautious about how we address arbitral provisions in trust deeds. We want to absolutely make sure that, for example, child beneficiaries under a trust deed aren\u2019t simply steamrolled by an arbitral procedure which is essentially dishonestly designed to side-line them. The supervisory jurisdiction of the court is of critical importance there. Miss Barry waved a wad of paper which represented some of the deliberations on this bill. The Trusts Bill magnifies that somewhat, but that\u2019s where those provisions will be found.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s not to say this is not a useful and an important bill. Mr Bayly did an outstanding job in teasing out some of the really important technical provisions. I think our arbitral law will be significantly better for his and his predecessors work in this area. One of the points was the clarification around objecting to jurisdiction. You can\u2019t just haul someone into an arbitral tribunal before an arbitrator, the parties must have agreed to it, and it must meet certain bare minimum thresholds. Every so often\u2014a good example is the consumer, not many people know that a consumer cannot be compelled to arbitrate unless they agree after the dispute has arisen. So there\u2019s a jurisdictional problem. In some of these situations the parties might simply let the procedure grind on without raising any jurisdictional objections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not a good thing, because what we want in any dispute is a speedy, straightforward, procedurally robust dispute resolution procedure. Now, what this does is require anyone who has a procedural objection to, essentially, raise that and pursue it promptly. So you can\u2019t simply say \u201CYou\u2019ve got no jurisdiction.\u201D and then sit on your hands, because that\u2019s unfair on the party pursuing the dispute resolution procedure. You\u2019ve got to actually pursue it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other important point that was raised here\u2014another great improvement\u2014is the use of what\u2019s been called the quick-draw procedure, and, really, its utility has been superseded by the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute, because the quick-draw procedure is what the parties resort to where they cannot agree on the appointment of an arbitrator. It\u2019s essentially a default locus procedure whereby one party says \u201CWell, here\u2019s my chosen arbitrator. You\u2019ve got seven days to object.\u201D, and, of course, nine times out of ten, the objection comes too late and it\u2019s a default appointment. Now, it can be a sneaky way to appoint an arbitrator who isn\u2019t impartial. It cuts across what arbitration is supposed to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat we do have in the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute\u2014and I recognise them now as a really important and a highly respected institution\u2014is a professional body which can now fill that appointment vacuum. Really, all that\u2019s needed is to go to the institute and make that appointment, so that\u2019s a much better outcome. So what we have here is some really significant improvements, and I note the fact that that\u2019s had to go to the Business Committee because it is something that may not have been in the original bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other tidy-up is just around some tidying of the language of the Act. Mr Bayly referred to references to \u201Cschedule\u201D when it should be \u201CAct\u201D. Again, we want to make sure it\u2019s consistent. The arbitral law sits within an international framework, so it is, in fact, very important\u2014particularly for international arbitration\u2014that our domestic law tracks pretty much exactly the international framework. So that\u2019s another thing that we\u2019ve done here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo look, I know that this bill doesn\u2019t meet all of the expectations of its proponents, but I do hope that they\u2019re happy that we had a really robust process in which we were extremely well advised, not only by some of the most high-quality submissions I\u2019ve seen from real specialists in the area who took an interest but also by Mr Paul Heath, former High Court judge, a former law commissioner, and Queen\u2019s Counsel, who, I must say, gave some of the most thorough advice, but, frustratingly, never gave us his own view on exactly what we should do\u2014because we were desperately looking for it on some occasions. But what we have now is a piece of legislation or a position which says, \u201CLook, on policy grounds, open justice is paramount.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EParties can have private arbitrations, but when we get to the court system, the court must be free to make a decision about what information becomes closed. The court has an ability under its existing procedural rules to close some information and not other information, so that is entirely up to the court. Now, it may well be that this doesn\u2019t create a thriving international arbitration market, but, for policy reasons, I think that\u2019s where we\u2019re going to sit. I\u2019m confident that we have a judicial system which is highly respected, and people will come here for the quality of our judiciary, the quality of our advocates, and the fact that we have an extremely transparent country and they can trust what goes on here. So well done, Mr Bayly\u2014another win for justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u002213b02988dba54f6f822377987c37a6b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213b02988dba54f6f822377987c37a6b5\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Arbitration Amendment Bill. First of all, with your forbearance, I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the former member Paul Foster-Bell in the House\u2014a hard-working and determined member of Parliament in his time\u2014and I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate him for his work in bringing this bill to the House and publicly commend him for the work he\u2019s doing now. He\u2019s a great guy doing a great job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EIt then makes it hard\u2014no, it doesn\u2019t!\u2014to speak to Andrew Bayly, the current sponsor of the bill and congratulate him for his advocacy, actually. He has taken the proverbial bull by the horns, as it were, and has been a strong advocate for this legislation. He has undertaken a lot of work behind the scenes and has been very willing and open in his discussions with all members who are interested and who want to know more about what it is that is being aimed for within this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s appropriate to point out that when this bill was first introduced to the House, by Paul Foster-Bell, New Zealand First spoke quite strongly in terms of reservations. We spoke about the fact that we had concerns that the bill would introduce new presumptions of confidentiality in relation to proceedings concerning arbitration, in contrast to court proceedings, which, as has been aired repeatedly this evening, are normally open proceedings. They are open to the public, and the information itself is accessible by the public. So this is a well-established principle in New Zealand\u2019s legal system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EIn the Justice Committee, the recommendation around deleting clause 5 from the bill has assessed that \u201Cthe current regime for arbitration-related court proceedings strikes the appropriate balance between open justice and the private nature of arbitration.\u201D, and then we had some concerns around trusts within this legislation. But I rise in support of this legislation\u2014I thought it appropriate to clarify that at this juncture\u2014and say that of course New Zealand First does support arbitration as an alternative to disputes. As was outlined previously, if two parties can work through issues in a less formal setting, perhaps the less formal the setting is, probably the easier it is to get through the issues that they have cheaper, quicker, and it is ideal for both parties, and the international arbitration here is part of that. So we support this and we support, with professional assistance, of course, this being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI think the submitters spoke to how this can be improved. I would note, actually, that some of what is being sought in this legislation actually seeks to align our legislation with international standards and, hopefully, make arbitration more attractive in New Zealand. But I will point out and acknowledge the words from Dr Duncan Webb, the previous speaker, that, actually, the attraction of the New Zealand system is based around our professionalism, the level of integrity, and the competence of those practitioners in the New Zealand legal system. So, in that, we are an attractive proposition to those who would use New Zealand as an international arbitrator, and I suppose I would signal that there is still to be some debate about the way that we move forward in terms of the open justice system in these arbitration-related court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo I think I have outlined quite briefly the reasons for our support. I don\u2019t think I need to go through the technical aspects of what arbitration is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226893a9c7803249d49031a9e7fa45419b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Go on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b0976ab5b947f89511b667b1477110\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the New Zealand system, despite the protestations of my colleagues on this side of the House. We support the legislation and we look forward to it proceeding through the House. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002258463b0dd4d840fbadfd2e3f66dbd310\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258463b0dd4d840fbadfd2e3f66dbd310\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the second reading of this Arbitration Amendment Bill. This is one of those bills that are about improving New Zealand\u2019s business laws and are part of the many dozens of things that we need to do well as a country, to protect that reputation that National built during its nine years in Government of New Zealand being a good place to do business. In international surveys, New Zealand is recognised as one of the best places in the world to do business, and, equally so, a reputation that New Zealand should be equally proud of is New Zealand being the least corrupt place in the world to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECan I congratulate Andrew Bayly. He is a member that\u2019s come to this House with a deep level of experience in the business community, and the sort of contribution he\u2019s making to New Zealand\u2019s law is just a fraction of what he will do in the next Government as a person that actually understands how wealth is created and the importance of good law in an area like arbitration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to cover four specific issues. The first is that we on this side of the House recognise that for New Zealand to be successful we need to be globally engaged. And actually, an increasing number of contracts, whether it be for major infrastructure projects, whether it be in terms of the huge amount of trading activity, does involve commercial contracts of New Zealand and other countries. And when those contracts are signed, people have a choice as to whether they want to have an arbitration procedure and where that arbitration will occur. And the advantage for New Zealand having modern, robust arbitration law is that more people will choose to have that arbitration process in New Zealand, and that is to this country\u2019s credit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second issue that is important in this bill is the degree to which we limit the scope of our court system to intrude into arbitrations that have been entered into around commercial contracts. And a key part of this bill is actually improving the certainty around the arbitration process and the degree to which the courts can intervene, either in terms of a timely way or putting limits on where our courts may undo what has been decided through an arbitration tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe further part I want to refer to is this issue of secrecy and openness and where the public interest lies. It is true and I totally agree that where you are dealing with issues of criminal justice and public law that there is a strong argument for transparency. But when you are dealing with private contractual disputes, my view is that the onus is in a different sense and the parties are able to resolve the issues in a private way that is often to the interests of all parties concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy experience prior to coming to this Parliament was in the construction industry, and often, both from the point of view of a client and a contractor where there are reputational issues at stake, people want a confidential, robust, but efficient system to be able to resolve disputes that may amount to many hundreds of millions of dollars in construction disputes. And I think the provisions in this bill that respect the confidentiality of those arbitration processes is an outcome that is in the public interest. I think in that respect New Zealand First is a bit naive. This is not the only area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ce5844c5a74e36a78492095c10cc2f\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on, Mr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022644c764e9c1241508fd0ae5013a8994f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member opposed the bill on first reading. He\u2019s now supporting it. He\u2019s now accepting the wisdom that is in this bill and the superior knowledge that he has about how the real business world works and also, in my view, a reality of the importance of robust commercial arrangements that can transcend national boundaries and ensure that international commerce occurs on the very best standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee has worked hard on this bill. We have made changes. It is a better bill as a consequence. This is not the most exciting bill, but, Madam Deputy Speaker, I tell you what\u2019s important: it is getting every piece of law that\u2019s associated with the business community refined world\u2019s best practice that makes New Zealand a successful economy. That is something the English - Key Government understood. It\u2019s something the National Party understands, and I urge members opposite to understand the importance of detailed commercial law of the sort to be in good shape for New Zealand to be a great place to live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002282046a3ecc32418289ea801832da1dc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282046a3ecc32418289ea801832da1dc6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Arbitration Amendment Bill has been one of those bills that one felt that as a new member of the Justice Committee there are certain bills that come through that actually do thoroughly increase your understanding of an aspect of the world, of the law that I knew very little about before. Although, having said that, having been part of an organisation, the only organisation that actually had binding arbitration as its manner of settling pay disputes, I probably didn\u2019t have to understand much about the give and take of the arbitration system. So I do thank the member Mr Bayly for the way in which he has pushed the bill through. It made for quite strong deliberations to the committee and certainly has made sure that when we did come to deliberate on the bill, we were certainly as well informed as we could expect to have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe early stage of the debate was of course around making New Zealand bring in a confidentiality clause, so where a case had ended up in arbitration that the presumption of that being heard in public was reversed. So the presumption would actually be that it would be confidential. And the rationale around that, on the surface of it, certainly from the commercial point of view, was that it would assist New Zealand to establish an international base around arbitration, perhaps with the benefits, financial in particular, that would arise. So that really brought us to the nub of the matter in what we did consider much of our debating time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWe heard from some very smart, wise, informed people to the committee. Probably, it would be fair to say that for a member\u2019s bill, the resources that went into it, the advice we got, probably exceeded that that most will ever be allowed or permitted on such a bill. However, it did certainly, when you had people of the likes of Paul Heath QC to advise us through this, ensure that when we did come to the deliberation and it brought us to this stage, we were making sure we were playing with the best information available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhen we did go to the confidentiality, some of the arguments that were brought up were ones that if we did have confidential settlements all the time, then we wouldn\u2019t learn anything. No judgments would be published; therefore, there would be no learnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff64d1ce70ae466cbe9b77bfc9d26285\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just interrupt the member\u2019s speech? I have stopped the clock. Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, can I refer you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 16/3 about the device that\u2019s on top of the desk. There is a Speaker\u2019s ruling about that. It is just above the one that refers to knitting in the Chamber, for the members. So can I call Greg O\u2019Connor to resume his speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281021315513e42d5b6cff61d51ed33d6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and being a student of history, I\u2019d be very wary if, while standing on my feet, people were knitting, knowing what that preceded in the French Revolution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ff963debad94848a1ae6e91d8a5c96b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Slightly odd juxtaposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f16fc350d0c472d8f651d6b52fb9087\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: However, I can go back to the Arbitration Amendment Bill. Again, going back to the fact that much of our discussions were around the confidentiality\u2014this basic principle, really, of confidentiality for public; that justice should be seen to be done and that these things should be conducted in public. And I was certainly left\u2014from the new information that I received, the discussion with some of these very learned gentlemen, and I believe they were all gentlemen, the learned ones that came before us\u2014with the impression that there was certainly no justification that we would actually go against the basic tenets of our justice system, of open justice. So it did take us a while to get there, but we got there, and I think it was something that, because of its importance, we should really deserve the time that we actually spent on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhen we were considering that there was one celebrated case\u2014the Hawksbury case\u2014that came up about how much, and this is, again, a matter that was considered; it was settled by arbitration but it was around public money. And that certainly became the centre point of much of our discussion around whether, with a confidential settlement surrounding public money, using this legislation could have prevented that being known. So, again, another case came to us that helped us in our decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAs we come to consider the second reading of this bill, it goes back again to the basic tenets of this. It was about improving the framework for arbitration as a helpful method of resolving commercial and other disputes. Arbitration or alternative dispute resolutions are very much part of our criminal justice system now with the introduction of pre-charge warnings etc. or alternative resolution, right through to these rather large cases that we will hear of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAt one stage we did also consider, when we were looking at that confidentiality and whether it was possible to set up this international arbitration system, whether we could have a two-tier system to preserve the confidentiality\u2014those basic understandings of the way we do our business in New Zealand\u2014whether, in fact, we could have a system that, provided the two parties had no interest in New Zealand, were domiciled elsewhere, whether we could actually have a system that would allow us to take advantage of the perhaps vast amounts of money that these big corporations coming to New Zealand to do their business might have been able to avail ourselves of, and just then have another system for New Zealand - based companies, which would have to work under the current system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhile there was some work done on that, again, one of our learned QCs\u2014I think Mr Paul Heath was one of the ones who looked at that\u2014came back and, while there was some attractiveness, again, it had that two-tiered justice system, which started to have that smack of a bit of third world about it, and started to make New Zealand start to look like a country that, you know, perhaps was going away from those beautiful, basic justice principles that make us one of the least corrupt countries in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, again, these were the sorts of discussions that we came to. So I won\u2019t say it was quickly dismissed, but that was one of those suggestions that was brought, explored, and rejected, which brought us then back to the bill we have before us today. The practical purpose, again, to improve\u2014it really is about improving justice, arbitration of course being a helpful method of resolving commercial and other disputes based on the consent of the parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOne of the other things we spent some time on too was the late jurisdictional change. One of the important things here is that\u2014and again we debated whether it was possible for parties to go through what is inevitably quite an expensive process of going through a whole system of arbitration and then one party being able to object to the jurisdiction. And that\u2019s a case that came out of Singapore, and if one of those parties objected, it was quite possible then for the whole expensive process to have to be restarted or thrown out. That was one of the clauses, again, which we spent some time on. And, of course, it very quickly became obvious that we needed the protection to make sure that wasn\u2019t the case: that an unsuccessful party could stand and say, \u201CWell, I don\u2019t like the result. I\u2019ll look for an alternative.\u201D So we were very fortunate to have time to consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, going back to the matter we talked about, about the benefit of New Zealand being a venue for overseas arbitration, being considered. And William Somerville, one of those submitters, said it \u201Cshould not drive [a] weakening [of] a fundamental constitutional principle.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThat was really where we arrived. What we have now, this Arbitration Amendment Bill\u2014I\u2019m very happy to commend this bill to the House and again congratulate\u2014as it\u2019s turned out. Because knowing that I\u2019ve been part of the very hard-working Justice Committee, I\u2019ll remind, as I have before, that at one stage I was reminded that two-thirds of the sittings of the select committees in this House were the hard-working Justice Committee. I see Mr Bishop over there nodding his head vigorously, as a fellow member of that extremely hard-working Justice Committee. So I am happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00227da4348e5b064708a96f4867935733e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227da4348e5b064708a96f4867935733e7\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Greens):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party to, and I\u2019ll front foot it, commend this bill to the House. I want to lend my congratulations to Andrew Bayly, as the member in charge of shepherding this piece of legislation through the House and, indeed, through the select committee process, and also, obviously, to the member formerly in charge, who introduced this legislation into the 51st Parliament, if the record is correct, Paul Foster-Bell, whom, I would note just for the sake of some fun for law students who may later be going through the Hansard, I met on the bus a few weeks ago. So I might say there is hope for that blue-green idea yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat this piece of legislation does\u2014and a number of speakers before me have really spoken to the crux of it\u2014is improve the arbitration process. It was actually Barry Coates, a former Green Party MP, who spoke at the introduction of this bill, at the first reading, about the importance of supporting transparency but also about the importance of practical changes to the arbitration process to make it work better for those who engage in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAs a number of speakers have addressed, the arbitration process is an important part of the alternative dispute resolution cachet in that it keeps the courts free of those disputes which can be settled in those rooms that are somewhat more private but, obviously, somewhat a bone of contention, I would note, given the points made around open justice. I would refer members to the submission of William Somerville, who, I think, summarised it quite well. I believe it was the Hon Maggie Barry who spoke to how arbitration cases from overseas bring in, on average, approximately a million dollars each. That is evidently quite a high financial incentive, but as William Somerville put it\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe suggested benefit of promoting New Zealand as a venue for offshore arbitration is legitimate, in itself, but should not drive weakening a fundamental constitutional principle.\u201D, that being open justice. I think that\u2019s a really critical point; so I would commend the committee on what, I am sure, were incredibly robust discussions and debates. And this, I know, is one of the most weighty reports that I\u2019ve seen back from a select committee; so I will tautoko the point made by Greg O\u2019Connor that it is evidently a hard-working committee\u2014hey, Chris Bishop!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOn the point around trusts, this is, as I understand, going to end up being dealt with in a Government bill, which is being dealt with by the same Justice Committee, and there are also a number of technical amendments proposed within this legislation\u2014those being, avoiding late jurisdictional objection and application to set aside as a recourse against award.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d note the point, which has been alluded to by other speakers, around the appointment process for arbitrators. This is an interesting one, which a number of submitters chose to use their submission time to speak to, despite the lack of clarity as to whether it could end up being included or was out of scope of the member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe problematic area, which I hope is capturing the attention of the Hon Alfred Ngaro, who asked for Greg O\u2019Connor to put this in a poem\u2014this is a fun fact, Alfred Ngaro\u2014is quick draw procedure, which is where a party can trigger a process to appoint an arbitrator if the other party fails to respond to communication within seven days. The more you know! And it was Paul Heath QC, who advised on removing the quick draw procedure, who said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CIt is the most important practical issue from the perspective of the arbitration profession\u201D. My understanding, listening to the debate but also delving through the interim report of the Justice Committee, is that this point was put before the Business Committee and that it could be considered as an amendment before the House. So I think that the committee of the whole House stage will be very interesting as a debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAs a member who had not known that they would be speaking on this bill until about two hours ago, I hope that I have made a somewhat meaningful contribution and would like to echo the sentiments of former speakers to the legislation thus far and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022a28fcc9166174c6299891bb136966902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a28fcc9166174c6299891bb136966902\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Look, can I just say, in response to Miss Swarbrick\u2019s speech, that she may not have thought she was planning on speaking on the bill, but it was a more learned contribution than Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s, who was actually on the Justice Committee, which is slightly embarrassing for Mr O\u2019Connor, but well done, Miss Swarbrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis bill has had a long and complicated legislative history, and it\u2019s a testament, really, to the fine work of Andrew Bayly, my colleague, that we are at a second reading and it looks like it will receive unanimous approval of the House. This bill came into being with the lamented Paul Foster-Bell, who left the Parliament at the 2017 election. He introduced it in May 2017, it had its first reading, and it was sent off to what was then the Justice and Electoral Committee. I think we opened for submissions and I think that they came in, but we didn\u2019t actually hear any. That was left to the newly reincarnated Justice Committee of the 52nd Parliament, and that\u2019s where things got interesting. Andrew Bayly, the member in charge of the bill, is nodding his head. I won\u2019t discuss exactly what went on at the committee, but it was an interesting process. We heard the submissions, and they were very learned submissions. We heard from noted arbitrators like Jeremy Johnson down in Christchurch, from Wynn Williams and Co. We heard from David Williams QC\u2014we heard from a variety of different QCs, actually. We heard from the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand\u2014AMANZ\u2014and we carried on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe did have a lot of difficulty in getting to grips with the recommendations made by\u2014I suppose you\u2019d say we had some difficulty reconciling the views of the submitters, who were very learned and very expert and very knowledgeable in their field, with the views of the officials. Of course, we were also\u2014and still are, in some ways, actually\u2014still considering the Trusts Bill, and there is a degree of overlap between the Trusts Bill\u2014the massive rewrite of our trust law\u2014and this bill, the Arbitration Amendment Bill. So we had to deal with the overlap and the potential overlaps between the two bills, which we were considering at the same time. We issued an interim report; we sort of threw our hands up with a cry for help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe issued an interim report and we put a departmental report out, and then we hired Mr Paul Heath QC. I think that was a very smart idea, because Mr Heath QC came in like the white knight, and we were able to work with Paul Heath, and between us on the committee, the members\u2014some of whom are, you know, quite au fait with trust law, some of whom are coming at it for the first time, and some of whom, like me, have an entire honours degree in law but absolutely loathe the subject of trusts and arbitration. But, anyway, between us on the committee and Paul Heath QC and the submitters and the officials from the Ministry of Justice, we have managed to fashion, I think, a good piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s highly complex. Miss Swarbrick is right that we\u2019re going to have quite an interesting debate, I think, at the committee of the whole House stage, but what we have sought to do as a committee is not adopt every single thing that the submitters wanted. We have amended the bill reasonably substantially, we have made some fine-tuning amendments as well, and we have landed in a space where it looks like it is going to receive majority support. That is really good, because, as the Hon Dr Nick Smith said in his contribution, certainty in the area of commercial law, when it comes to this, is really important. I actually think it\u2019s one of those areas where it is good to have as much cross-party support as possible in the House, because that consensus, or at least unanimity, provides some ballast to the idea that the law is set in stone, and it means that those out there who are making commercial decisions based on what the law is know that if there\u2019s a change of Government, you know, the National Party\u2019s not going to come in and overturn what Parliament\u2019s just passed. You need to be able to make decisions based on some sense of certainty. Hopefully, as we move through the remaining parliamentary stages we will get this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJust in my final 30 seconds, I want to just tautoko what Nick Smith said about New Zealand as a potential home of commercial arbitration. We have huge potential for it and we did some work on that in Government\u2014the previous National Government. There is huge potential. In the world today, a society based on the rule of law, the certainty of the law, with high-quality legal procedures and legal tribunals, is something to be prized and valued, and this bill further entrenches it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002208668edbf7ee41ec99fcb0716f3f799b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208668edbf7ee41ec99fcb0716f3f799b\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. What an extraordinary bill this is. I actually almost wish I was sitting on the Justice Committee through all of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4533a783194b73939e113f50c3bf1d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254e29f3a9dc54e1fad1324fae9481841\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Well, when I\u2019m looking through the list of reports, submissions, QC reports coming out your ears\u2014not yours, Madam Deputy Speaker, apologies\u2014it\u2019s an extraordinary trajectory for a member\u2019s bill. I acknowledge Paul Foster-Bell and Andrew Bayly for the work and for the commitment, clearly, that you\u2019ve put into this, because I know that you have put a lot of commitment into this. There were 10 submitters, a departmental report\u2014I presume that was the interim report\u2014then you heard again from the submitters, and then QCs were engaged to provide advice, and it went on and on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EFor those who are listening at home, what we\u2019re talking about is arbitration, which is\u2014it\u2019s basically described as a helpful method of resolving commercial and other disputes, and it\u2019s based not on litigation but on the consent of the parties. That is what we are discussing, and what the original bill set out to do was to try and introduce some significant changes. I think where we\u2019ve ended up is what good legislators should do, which is with important technical tidy-ups with a bigger discussion around the role of arbitration and where New Zealand could fit into that space. But where we\u2019ve also ended up is with a bill that\u2019s come back from select committee with some significant recommendations for taking out two of the key clauses\u2014clause 4 and clause 5\u2014which, ultimately, means that you are left with the technical tidy-ups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to just make a couple of comments in the couple of minutes that I\u2019ve got, particularly around the principle of open justice. That was seen as being so important. I just want to refer to the New Zealand Law Society submission and then contrast that with what Nick Smith said earlier. The New Zealand Law Society submitted \u201Cthat any derogation from the principle of open justice\u201D\u2014and \u201Cderogation\u201D means moving away from the principle of open justice\u2014\u201Crequires a compelling justification and should be limited to the least derogation necessary to achieve the objective.\u201D They said that \u201CComparable provisions in other jurisdictions, [such as] Australia and the UK, should be considered.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ENow, from what I can gather, the basis of the discussion to move away from the principle of open justice was based on Singapore and other jurisdictions\u2014Hong Kong\u2014where a lot of arbitration takes place, commercial arbitration. I think the aim was to try and see New Zealand as being a centre for that kind of commercial arbitration, but to do that would be to move away from the principle of open justice. I think that where we\u2019ve ended up is to say that, actually, in our rule of law and the way that our justice system and our democracy operates, we don\u2019t believe that it\u2019s worth it to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThat open justice\u2014and I think what Nick Smith was arguing for was a qualified form of open justice. I\u2019d love to hear what Chris Finlayson had to say about that. I hope he does make a contribution in the committee stage around what that actually means. Is qualified open justice worth giving up our principle in order to get more commercial arbitration into New Zealand? We say no to that. We think that we\u2019ve ended up with a bill where there is obviously some unanimous support around the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201812129dc62b394b534b59af427756d1da4ea1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"