"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f02dc964530434f8d132ed60fbd778c\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 1 MAY 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca1e3cdf8512460ea6707801fdc7615a\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 1 MAY 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5bba4d6c5e34e0aa2b21b8a4ce5e683\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c57f83d2fb54a9ea1b6eb11f749a301\u0022\u003EWritten Questions\u2014Overdue Answers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c294623f6b9c4e14b9b9d71fb4d4dd2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c294623f6b9c4e14b9b9d71fb4d4dd2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I move to oral questions, I\u2019ve received a letter from the Hon Paul Goldsmith indicating his frustration with the lack of answers to written questions. This is a matter which has been before the House previously, and on this particular occasion, there are\u2014in fact, he\u2019s written to me with eight questions that were due on 16 April from the Hon Shane Jones. Mr Jones\u2019 office indicated on 23 April that they would be answered that day. There were further inquiries last Friday, and they are still unanswered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EWritten questions are a way of holding the Government to account, and I will note that there are an additional 17 subsequently unanswered questions from that office. I have not reviewed the situation generally; I will do that before the House sits next Tuesday, but in the interim, as a result of this complaint, for each of the unanswered supplementaries, I will grant the National Party an additional supplementary question to be used today or tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f90a04038e848c59cbd319af6a1a871\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258bbaf5a307f461eabd3c87310606498\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022128dcdca45dd451d9876526b43adf366\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00220b2fc2c6fa1c498da86ccb89c0feac2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b2fc2c6fa1c498da86ccb89c0feac2e\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227861e75bdc724587ad2dabbca0408d5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227861e75bdc724587ad2dabbca0408d5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Minus two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022d15f291224294e76af85dc57292bec94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d15f291224294e76af85dc57292bec94\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002217d80abf182c45d7997bd9985eecd267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217d80abf182c45d7997bd9985eecd267\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E On Monday, Treasury released the Crown financial statements for the nine months to the end of March, showing that the Government continues to manage the books responsibly. The accounts show a surplus of $2.5 billion in the operating balance before gains and losses over the nine months, $329 million above forecast. Net core Crown debt as at 31 March was also below forecast, at 20.6 percent of GDP, compared to the 20.9 percent expected. These results demonstrate the solid underlying fundamentals of the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224abe6366532442459d3c2d50aa957697\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen about the fundamentals of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3aa8b2e3b2144b3a273c985c0249edc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: This morning, Statistics New Zealand released labour market statistics for the March quarter, showing the unemployment rate fell to 4.2 percent. This means that the last nine months have seen the lowest unemployment rate in over a decade. The underutilisation rate also fell to 11.3 percent, the lowest it has been since December 2008. Meanwhile, according to the quarterly employment survey, wages grew at 3.4 percent, well above the annual inflation for the quarter of 1.5 percent. The data released today does reinforce the tightness of the labour market, but it also shows an economy that is delivering for more New Zealanders on the back of solid underlying fundamentals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7bf674d8b0471f9f8db6575864dc76\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on international risks to the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e50496a801e4a4193525dbc6b89f1a8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Eurozone GDP data for the March quarter came out overnight, showing growth of 0.4 percent and annual growth of just 1.2 percent. The data reaffirmed the message that I heard at the IMF and World Bank meetings last month that the global economy, while still growing, is doing so more slowly than the highs seen in recent years, amidst risks from geopolitical and trade uncertainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0f020d24b540b991a3a62af573a803\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Risks of bad Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829f4a4aefc34fdca4f90bab3ad36b09\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As a relatively small\u2014you should leave your negativity in the caucus room, Ms Adams\u2014open nation, we are not immune to the challenges posed by the international outlook. That\u2019s why we\u2019re continuing to manage the books responsibly while implementing our plan for a modern and resilient economy based on productive, sustainable, and inclusive growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6698af92488468ea2631310f1e1e5b5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 2, the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286fb043713534f64a54dd94c6bfaa96d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question. I thought they wanted to take one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271c08e4aeae4f6989b4853b6b05786e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216377414e83948d3af0678e04b8a7ec4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your consideration. Can I ask the Minister of Finance: do these stats indicate that rather than gloom and doom, so beloved of some, the economy in New Zealand is being seriously, soundly managed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddf98b0848e4ad1ba1ec8f358d50f90\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am far too modest to respond to the second part of the member\u2019s question, but what I can say is that this is an economy that is resilient, that is strong, and that in the face of international headwinds, this Government is committed to making sure that it\u2019s more productive, more sustainable, and more inclusive, and the management is down to everyone on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224981dd356144400da7071fc0305d90d9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddff53ebcb6f4d09a2130f7ede8863a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddff53ebcb6f4d09a2130f7ede8863a3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s actions, policies, and statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd95a2640bff4d669774fa66d538ee2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd95a2640bff4d669774fa66d538ee2c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ebcda7823e445185388702c4e77b9a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that under the previous Government, job creation was at 10,000 per month, yet in the last three months, job growth has fallen by 4,000\u2014that is, it\u2019s gone negative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5055db90a14419b9ba1e95b9e3e901\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I notice that the member has very specifically drawn on a quarter-to-quarter comparison because what he doesn\u2019t want to say is that the unemployment rate, as it\u2019s being announced today, is at 4.2 percent, the second-lowest level in 10 years. What he doesn\u2019t want to say is that wages grew 3.4 percent over the year; that the underutilisation rate\u2014again, we want to make sure that people, when they\u2019re in employment, are working as much as they want to be working\u2014fell to 11.3 percent, the lowest underutilisation rate since December 2008; and the NEET rate fell\u2014not as much as we\u2019d like, but it has fallen\u2014and the number of employed people rose 38,200 from a year ago. The member has compared one quarter to the next because that was the only number that he felt comfortable raising in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c2f4901b234e1d849c09f21db7b42a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So will she answer the question: does she accept that under the previous Government, job creation was at 10,000 per month, yet in the last three months, job growth has fallen\u2014that is, has gone negative\u2014by 4,000 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c99c1092ab24b0ea940791a1f6531db\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: For the quarter, yes. However, if we\u2019re looking at the average change in employment, it is, of course, in the positive and over 10,000. Again, I notice that the member, when he was in Government, tended not to use quarter-on-quarter either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d8244b59f724f8fb37728d7708b965c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she know that the reason Statistics New Zealand gave for the unemployment rate falling in the last quarter was because people were deciding to leave the labour force\u2014that is, to go on a benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a40422042848fc959fd78995538204\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is actually not correct. If someone goes on a benefit, by default they are termed unemployed and would show up in the unemployment statistics, which have gone [Interruption]\u2014if surveyed, they would indeed be regarded as unemployed, and the unemployment rate has gone down. Secondly, I also acknowledge that when the numbers came out, Statistics New Zealand said they saw a rise in men aged over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270888865336846d091fe396f893a1628\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t just make it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32fcd8528f441ba9198027e47e3ca85\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this is actually from Statistics New Zealand, Mr Brownlee, if you\u2019d like to tune in\u201455 leaving the labour force in order to go into leisure time\u2014perhaps a suggestion, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e163686e24f2415e8b953bea865ed7cf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6aa166bdd34f61ade16fb60ae1267b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think the member has a right to make a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293533ea0991742cb83e8eedafe76a5f2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I just want to express to the House how overcome I am by the kindness of the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022132a2c26c4dd41bebd9c86085d6bec2c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thought the member was going to say he wouldn\u2019t notice any difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b3ecb6f18c44e4b1eef3e6f08d20f7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: We really should get our two back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f8656d3adea4cdb926473da5d6c9179\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough\u2014fair enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252077b65760b4ed48d65e96c1dabbaa2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How does she explain unemployment down but benefits strongly up? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faaab4f508564395a2c438acd1036d73\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there\u2019s been a variation of 0.2 percent in the benefit numbers. Again, however, when we look at the percentage of those of the working-age population receiving a main benefit, even where it is now in the March quarter, which is at 9.5 percent, that is lower than it was in every year from March 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017, under the last Government. So, yes, of course we want to keep those numbers coming in a different direction, but, again\u2014relative to the last Government\u2014in better shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba93317e19cb4222a91c35fb1379b2cb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that under the previous Government, 60,000 people came off benefits, yet in the last 12 months, there were 13,000 more people on the benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd27b4447724f2bbf944a923162f121\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yet, I say again, despite that, we are still at a lower rate than under the last Government. Of course we maintain the aspiration that we want to see people in work. That\u2019s why we have Mana in Mahi, where we are supporting those who are on unemployment benefits to go into work and supporting employers to take them on in apprenticeships. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve got our driver-licensing scheme, where those on youth payments are eligible for free driver-licensing to help them get into work. And it\u2019s why just this week, Ministers announced the work they\u2019re doing with the building and construction sector. We do want people in meaningful work, and we\u2019re taking meaningful action to make it happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f803657a4e34d15814542ec54d2ec6b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why are there 13,000 more New Zealanders on the job seeker benefit under her watch? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd2becd766ff47828181a911883ac59e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I prefer to use the proportion of working-age population, but, again, even then I have said there has been a 0.2 percent increase. We have seen, according to the Ministry of Social Development, some softening in the areas around construction, from memory. So those areas where we have seen problems around our sector is where we\u2019ve seen also job issues, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re doing the work to try and make sure those individuals have the skills to go into those areas of work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0a37ab353644ab5b582977974af4096\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the country still waiting for the Government\u2019s response to the inquiry into mental health and addiction, when the Minister of Health said in November, January, and February that a response would be delivered in March, and in March he said that it would be only a few weeks away? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d969299eb1614f038c33bbf5bf36c74c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did add clarity to our expectation around when that report would be released on Monday, at post-Cabinet. The Minister had indicated it would be released by the end of April. As we worked on the final response from the Government, what became apparent was that so much of the response was tied up with the Budget, and tangible announcements of our health service delivery would change under this Government. The view was that bringing closer proximity, therefore, to the actual announcements at Budget time and the Government\u2019s response would be preferable. So we\u2019re asking members to wait a matter of weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e208bae0945646a69b394aa8794f9e78\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government be adopting a suicide reduction target? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277b4f2d49eba4841a2072ad4e1d265e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I won\u2019t make that announcement here today, but what I will highlight is one of the vexed issues that we\u2019ve had is that on the one hand, the inquiry did recommend that a target be adopted, and on the other, the various members of this Government are on record talking about a view that of course we should have no tolerance, and targets suggest tolerance. We\u2019ve grappled with that as a Government, but we\u2019ll be making an announcement in its totality when the response comes out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220952d5ed6a1e43729ce53b38558c79fd\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government\u2019s $1.5 billion mental health package be announced pre-Budget or on Budget day? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2a3f7d333f44d0b85a62a04d0ab128\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: All Budget announcements, of course, sit with the Minister of Finance and the Government. We don\u2019t give time lines on what is in and what is out, and nor am I going to confirm the totality of those Budget amounts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f9edc2ff30746a4b6febef1c7562c92\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that it\u2019s a failure that the Ashburton District, with an unemployment rate of 1.8 percent, saw a 20 percent increase in the number of people on the job seeker benefit in the last year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897544b81018440795a5e9ab781a607a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, my preference would always be to look at some of that individual regional data myself, because sometimes it does give us patterns around what\u2019s happening for industry areas. Of course, we don\u2019t wish to tolerate growth in any of those areas; that\u2019s why we\u2019re taking very specific initiatives in very specific regions and employment areas in order to try and turn such numbers around. I would again say, though, this is a day where we\u2019ve, again, had the second lowest unemployment rate in a decade, matched only by the lowest in a decade, which we achieved two quarters ago. This is a time for celebration for the country, that we are doing well in the face of some international headwinds which are not positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb56c98b26745c3adbe96cf6a5c91b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: With all of these questions about employment, when unemployment is at a most commendable rate of 4.2 percent, could, nevertheless, one professional position be facing unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996a4621dda741a3af29a5d4b457b029\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019ll be one facing underemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276ad17936fd2419dab4345a4b8249a27\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I wouldn\u2019t want to speculate, but given how tight the labour market is at the moment, I imagine prospects would be good, no matter where anyone went.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f27f1ab6d964e9c8a8091edd6e3a425\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If unemployment being down is so good, why are benefits up 13,000 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4f59929225471290514e945be2b9c4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve given multiple answers to this question. Regardless, again, of those rationales, we are taking individual efforts to make sure that in those areas where we have job need we are matching those on a benefit in a way that we just did not see under the last Government. And that is the right approach to get our benefit numbers down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220de51be5c2f0416cbcd78090faba6632\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report, due to be released on Friday, recommend the removal of most or all benefit obligations and sanctions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f5ab96b0b454318b884283071535cd7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I welcome the question from the member, because I\u2019ve noticed some statements being made around sanctions which are just not accurate. There have been no changes to the sanction regime. We have, however, ensured that Work and Income is following the existing policy. So I cannot make any statements around whether or not that kind of rigour was applied to our system before, but it is being applied now. The sanctions themselves, however, have not changed. The second point is that the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2014you\u2019ll be able to discuss and debate their recommendations once they\u2019re released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa52e865a3c44d5b4fb896ba32760ec\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will her Government not only \u201Cremove excessive sanctions in the welfare system\u201D but, as the Speech from the Throne states, also \u201Cgo further\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600f931f4e884e4da1059fd489ad1242\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We have been very open as a Government around some of the discomfort we\u2019ve had with some of the sanctions that exist; for instance, the naming of children\u2014the penalty that applies for, particularly, women in those circumstances. That\u2019s something we\u2019ve been very open about. With sanctions, of course, we\u2019ve always been mindful about the impact of them on children in particular. But, again, in terms of any announcements, you\u2019ll have to wait until the Government formalises its response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1bc1873826343d2be53c06e4b7441da\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If she and her Government have made no secret of the fact that they\u2019re uncomfortable with the sanctions and obligations, why have no changes been made, and will changes be made when the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report and the Government\u2019s decisions come back?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e3334fd3bac44638323b88362d9630b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I was simply flagging a particular sanction that at least Labour and the Greens have been on record on for a number of years. When it comes to announcements, the member will have to wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236019a7664ee49d3a8044034090fbd5e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So can I confirm that she is uncomfortable with the sanctions and obligations that are in place on benefits today, as she, I think, just said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022175fd15fe6094fd486958c82a03de38f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member completely misinterpreted my statement and he knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a47806f2fdf9495a89ae4d8f461aae70\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the current system and what we\u2019ve got in place right now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dd6fb59f448470182acca88c3c2d970\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m just going to remind the Prime Minister that she cannot accuse a member of deliberately misleading the House, and I think she just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210257d3d8c5148b3b4a6666d5d11c465\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she then saying that the benefit arrangements around obligations and sanctions today are fine as they are?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e4479eb932402c8467067aa9440289\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We have not changed them\u2014they have not been changed. We\u2019re just making sure that Work and Income applies them appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9bf44b8356433685052a6c6c10d9d0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what\u2019s the point of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284727f9c0c254e3796e513b2a851d6ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will see the results in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b57b6c45f574d338b69a828793c923f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Veterans\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00223ceaca277098458b9d374090cee7da25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ceaca277098458b9d374090cee7da25\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Veterans: What announcements has he made regarding funding for veterans\u2019 support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5064e75e9ca42e4a13cbb1713cad24f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5064e75e9ca42e4a13cbb1713cad24f\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced additional funding to support the well-being of veterans and their families. The funding will be used to meet ever-increasing demands for services and for new health and well-being assessments to ensure our veterans are linked into the right support services when they leave the Defence Force. I also announced additional capital funding to improve the application and IT systems at Veterans\u2019 Affairs to make it easier to get assistance online, and to free up case managers to provide better support for more complex cases. This is on top of the extra $250,000 we allocated to the RSA, and on top of the $25,000 that we\u2019ve allocated to the No Duff Charitable Trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022407ccdef0d8741e4918d02f36abc3007\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Why are early interventions for veterans important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc95df90015e4cc38455b89c1495bb53\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Whilst there are approximately 11,000 veterans from World War II, Korea, Malaya, and Vietnam, we now have upwards of 31,000 contemporary veterans in New Zealand\u2014that is, people who have seen active service since 1971. Many of these vets return with service-related health and mental health issues, in particular post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Where we see severe and complex PTSD issues arise, it is paramount that they be identified as early as possible and that support is put in place to prevent self-destructive behaviours leading to self-harm and suicide. It is with all this in mind, and this Government\u2019s particular focus on mental health and well-being, that we decided to put in the extra funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec788a19142c41979bc02f0af2223885\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: How much additional funding will be allocated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022992fe697e5764b8a9ea2c6940d26ecdf\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Over the next four years, there will be a $2.1 million boost in operating funding, representing a 5.4 percent increase in the current Veterans Affairs baseline. Capital funding totalling $2 million has also been allocated to overhaul Veterans Affairs\u2019 client management structures and IT systems. It is money that will be very well spent, and the changes will enhance support and services to our veterans and their families, ultimately leading to improvements in well-being and better transitioning into civilian life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a278b2f98d274ed2a797250fd23413ca\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a48a2718df9e4dfeb3cc39b34efe10b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a48a2718df9e4dfeb3cc39b34efe10b2\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of the Government\u2019s statements, policies, and actions in relation to the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00224d22252d59374114ba8087356a229920\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d22252d59374114ba8087356a229920\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were given, made, and undertaken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb79a1c290bf49799164a94b27a13318\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile his statement that the Government is making solid progress on improving the well-being of New Zealanders, with data out today that shows the job market now has 4,000 fewer jobs in it than it did three months ago despite our growing population\u2014fewer jobs for more people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cfd923e650f4d1f9be0029b27d97a76\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would justify that by the following statistics released today: the unemployment rate falling to 4.2 percent in the March quarter from 4.3 percent, the second lowest since December 2008; wages growing 3.4 percent over the year, on average ordinary time hourly earnings; the underutilisation rate falling to 11.3 percent, the lowest rate since the December 2008 quarter; the NEET rate falling, although we want to see it fall a bit further; and the number of employed people rising by 38,200 people from a year ago. That\u2019s how I would justify that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda61390372d4942afd80c601a2063de\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, has he seen reports out today from the ANZ, commenting on the latest statistics, that note that the very slight drop in the unemployment rate was only because of a decline in participation, with employment growth actually falling over the last quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56cb1e00bc1432a8627363aae9e92b2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen the whole statement from the ANZ, which includes the following: \u201CThe labour market is currently in good shape.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d28aea7465674c8580c58dbe00c5b195\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think that the well-being of New Zealanders has been improved by facing rents that are $50 a week higher under this Government, according to Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment statistics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291bc845bdcc6476fafdb688389385e6d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that for everybody who pays rent, they monitor very closely the fluctuations in rent. I can say that between February and March, the geometric mean rents\u2014which we know we\u2019ve covered in this House before\u2014have, in fact, fallen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c2b69fbc2774ac5a213616ba300eede\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the well-being of New Zealanders being improved by facing electricity prices up to 40 percent higher because of the Government\u2019s renewable energy target, as confirmed by the interim Climate Commission?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e856beada741d1ac2506ae1d9fde11\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise in that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022639560c17ec643e2b9eeb9ef76595bba\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the well-being of New Zealanders being improved, as he\u2019s claimed, when the number of New Zealanders on a benefit has gone up by 13,000 people over the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf4512d21724754a8432c45f8982eea\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister has already stated, in fact, if we look at the various March years right the way back, I think, to 2014, we would see that, in fact, the working-age population on a main benefit is lower at this point than in future. But what I do want to do is thank the member for constantly referencing the well-being Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e181e78eac40b68cf8cf47dc11fdd4\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Well, is it a sign that the well-being of New Zealanders is improving when the number of New Zealanders who now need emergency housing grants has gone up more than 300 percent under his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd88d1000f5448d6a973cfadbf2a8237\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think everyone in this House shares the view that we need to do more in New Zealand to deal with the housing crisis that developed over the last decade. What this Government has done is got on with building more houses, including around 1,600 houses in the past year and 6,400 over the next four years. We are actually committed to making the changes, and we actually acknowledged that there was a housing crisis, unlike what that member did for the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022527801d396d9420e840a221269eab174\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022555160ae8cac49fd999a6c8410607b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022555160ae8cac49fd999a6c8410607b05\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: Does he stand by his answers to oral question No. 6 on 12 March that \u201CThe test applied to determine whether a KiwiBuild underwrite should proceed is additionality\u201D and that \u201CI\u2019m advised that the threshold can be met in four key ways\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00222405b35d63ec452ea8e8ea3eecd5eb59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222405b35d63ec452ea8e8ea3eecd5eb59\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in its original context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7167a9a5825444f96c50756ad4e2289\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have confidence additionality tests undertaken so far have been robust enough to determine whether a KiwiBuild development should proceed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f92df38a1914e13ab9f22d4def00e51\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226573210e951a4a45a64a5bef78688ba3\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any of the additionality tests that were undertaken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285e55a1678e44dabbcd2de1e06fd0790\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Those additionality tests are carried out by officials in the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, and I\u2019m advised by those officials that the test was conducted in each case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e34d5ec1265430e9174e0469adc7040\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he surprised to hear that the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development have advised, when asked for a copy of additionality tests, that these tests are done verbally with builders and no written record existed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be95a4a8ab074ac7a31b4f4755752e4e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was surprised to learn that too, but I am advised that there are other documents and that the ministry will clarify its response to the National Party research unit later today. However, the point is that KiwiBuild reduces the price paid for those houses by first-home buyers. It enables new affordable homes to be brought to the market more quickly, and our Government makes no apologies for backing builders to build more affordable homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263d287fc641c4452bb9013c36c505a6f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it acceptable for the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development to be playing so fast and loose with their response as to how these sign-offs for $700 million worth of homes have been assessed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb46814dedb49b6b92869661266a196\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a matter for the ministry, but I understand that while there is no specific single assessment document as requested by the National Party research unit, there are other documents and communications that set out the negotiations and record the ministry\u2019s work in this area. The point is that in the case of, for example, the Mike Greer deal, 104 affordable homes will be brought to the market more cheaply and more quickly for the benefit of first-home buyers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827d17cacf104778abeab518603f1235\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the quality of the response from his ministry dependent on who is asking the question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e52beac2974b6f873d05dbb9e365df\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220dc18e911c2d4053bd6dd3c24631862a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Pike River Re-entry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002283e0f94b07a0428c9b634d313505bcf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283e0f94b07a0428c9b634d313505bcf3\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for Pike River Re-entry: What actions is the Government taking to meet its pledge to re-enter the Pike River mine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d41f73d75c604008ae05f7ec4467cf75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d41f73d75c604008ae05f7ec4467cf75\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister responsible for Pike River Re-entry):\u003C/span\u003E On Friday, 3 May, the coalition Government will start the process of re-entering the Pike River mine drift, following the tragic loss of 29 lives in the 2010 disaster. This is the first step in meeting our pledge of re-entering the drift. Re-entry will enable the thorough investigation of the drift, which will, hopefully, allow us to better understand what caused this dreadful loss. This will be an ongoing process, and there are still many challenges ahead. Our primary focus will always be safety, and if our commitment to safety means delays or a slower process eventually, then so be it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead1f3c72cf942c6aa3ae1d7e89ec906\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: What work has been done to ensure that Pike River can be re-entered safely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d618c6412a44fce9ab18cdc30b74b19\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Re-entry to the Pike River drift is a complex undertaking. This is a site which, even eight years after the explosions that caused that great loss of life, still poses significant but manageable hazards. This has required robust planning, and the Pike River Recovery Agency has done an incredible job getting ready for re-entry, along with important oversight and scrutiny from WorkSafe New Zealand. The agency has received advice from international experts and the independent ministerial adviser, Rob Fyfe, and has operated with a commitment to safety first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba96f8ea491b45d48a7900bc50e4a631\u0022\u003ERino Tirikatene\u003C/span\u003E: What support has the Minister seen for the Pike River Recovery Agency\u2019s re-entry plan? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b6d32d90d74f42a741f9d1ecf66a94\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to acknowledge the Pike River families for their patience and determination to see that justice is done. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the advocacy and support of local MPs the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor and Rino Tirikatene, as well as the New Zealand First and Green parties for their support. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Hon Mark Mitchell for his support, and I look forward to seeing him there on Friday morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221adec93ed3354485a02ccd18b03a2aad\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, as promised, the re-entry will be led by the Rt Hon Winston Peters? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d0b0f45df44b5c8ac381e2c29c5db0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! He\u2019s not responsible for undertakings made pre-election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225407d1016f4f42c9b37a4b35f7b0a3a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Unlike that questioner, I am experienced in going underground, and I\u2019m happy to answer it myself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227939d4385d6c4244b66914a8fd2e6ec5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not certain which particular Standing Order he was referring to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e6da8de3084d3dbc7a1c43ad5f1277\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: The one where I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205322c87e0744b3f8c2a4ae63e6c165f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member\u2019s skating on pretty thin ice at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263ffcad358054c0d82d2a85129056a40\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00222fa41b75661447b49fdc78f0f5e0b1c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fa41b75661447b49fdc78f0f5e0b1c8\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Why did he say yesterday, \u201CI have not received advice that there was a leak of top-secret information\u201D, when the Police Commissioner has today confirmed he has directed that an investigation be commenced into the alleged unauthorised disclosure of information to a media outlet, and does he now accept there has been a leak of intelligence information to the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022887926f22fb04e169b30acef1944a586\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Stuart Nash, with the caveat that I have been warned that this answer is longer than I would normally permit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00223d5d463741cf490f99098d1f3604bca6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d5d463741cf490f99098d1f3604bca6\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my answer to the question the member put to me yesterday. He claimed the information disclosed was top secret. He was wrong\u2014the commissioner today has stated it was, \u201CNot top secret information\u201D. Today, he claims it is intelligence information. The member\u2019s statement needs a fact check. Police have not stated that intelligence information has been leaked. The original media report did not claim there had been a leak; it stated the information had been obtained [Interruption]. Police today have stated, \u201CInformation related\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7dfa19b121a4a91a6643c738c01c7d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. I think most members in this House will recognise that this is a very serious matter that may involve the security of individuals, or the country. The rest of this part of the answer will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c897d84c8e4c4600aa26748c8c4a1f63\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Police today have stated, \u201CInformation related to [the] ongoing investigative and prevention steps\u201D has been allegedly disclosed. Police, and myself, do take these allegations seriously, that\u2019s why on Monday morning I asked police to look into the media report. As I said in the House yesterday, I expect the commissioner to investigate potential breaches of operational protocol, and that is exactly what he is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cd2714c896144b783a1031307617a72\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: When was he advised that Stuff had obtained part of a confidential watch list of more than 100 people being watched by police? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266972acac5cc4c3489cc65f0162f7b5c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I read a media report on Sunday, but it is not a confidential watch list of more than 100 people. The fact that police compile lists of suspects and persons of interest is not a secret. As I told this House before Easter, there are a small number of individuals who are emboldened by what occurred on 15 March and have made threats and preached racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric online and in other forums. Some of this online chatter and threats are open-source information and not gathered through covert means. They are often reported to police by responsible members of the public. As that member is aware, deleting something from Facebook or Snapchat does not mean the information goes away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea963019d7d461e872c71eb8bfb19b3\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying that the reason he did not confirm to the House yesterday that there had been a leak of clearly confidential information was because the article on Stuff described the information erroneously as top secret?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a62c3f33381b45f6b317cbcce5dd06e7\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Do not believe everything you read in the press. In fact, I think the Prime Minister should have been a 10 out of 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b1622e91af49a7b3ad88682aa05bad\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he not tell the House yesterday exactly what happened to the confidential information in light of the commissioner\u2019s words this morning: \u201CThe disclosure of this information is of significant concern to police and we are taking this matter very seriously\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4da8c413b464d66bead77d90882bf1a\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: As I said yesterday, I expect the commissioner to investigate potential breaches of operational protocol\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e29912628d684de8af699818cca46f5f\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday the Minister denied it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d79b3633a28e43e68bc01571f5d9ec66\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that is exactly what they are doing. Yesterday, Ms Adams, I denied that there had been a leak of top secret information, and I stand by that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e7e3d92888044bf92bd4e922be8d80a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when he was told on Sunday\u2014as he has now confirmed to the House\u2014did he not answer the question yesterday and tell the public and the House that there had been an unauthorised disclosure of confidential information about people being monitored by police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca92748c68bb43d8b7b864a40f03d9de\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I urge that member to be very careful with his words, because allegations and false and outrageous claims can undermine the great work our New Zealand Police service is doing in keeping us safe and preventing crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae5228df8b1455aa31fa14c74c80038\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just ask the question again, Mr Speaker: why, when he has confirmed to the House he was told on Sunday about an unauthorised disclosure of information, did he not tell the House yesterday, when given repeated opportunities, that information confidential to the police had made its way to a media outlet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e38507ab4b34828b64c0c60fdc3a55d\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: If I had been asked that question, maybe that member would have received that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222aacb9d8a2fd4643ae7bc641148313e9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00222a34da0d701b43d08697b1da40659a64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a34da0d701b43d08697b1da40659a64\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Has there been a reduction in the number of single mothers having their benefits cut for not naming the father since this Government took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b261e6e5bc724655b637a470cc48420d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b261e6e5bc724655b637a470cc48420d\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for that question. I am pleased to say, although there have not been changes to the policy at this stage, we have seen a reduction in the number of section 192\u2014formerly known as section 70A\u2014deductions applied to parents who do not, or are unable, to name the other parent of their child. There has been a drop from 17,731 deductions as at March 2017 to 15,302 deductions as at March 2019. This reflects Work and Income case managers ensuring that sanctions are being applied correctly, and having conversations with clients to better understand their circumstances and situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9de532f48942b1a8d819444fa29d85\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that the social welfare system should value the work done by caregivers and provide support for mums struggling to get by, rather than making their lives harder with excessive sanctions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a5c2d72b3c4f6a9f949266595451c1\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree that we should have a welfare system that is fair, accessible, and provides people with the support they are eligible for. That is why the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) started a proactive campaign in April this year to contact sole parents who currently have a section 192 deduction applied to do a full review of their entitlements. So far, 93 reviews have been completed, resulting in 23 people getting more financial support, five people having more manageable debt repayments, and 12 people having the deduction itself removed due to new information about their situation, or because they have named the other parent, and/or applied for child support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565f749706b542298f5283571e6e52bc\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has any advice been provided on the impact of sanctions, particularly for children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b41a1eb40de541999a19c008432878ad\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a range of advice on sanctions, in particular on section 192. I started looking into these deductions in more detail in November 2017 and have continued to do work in this area. MSD, alongside Oranga Tamariki, also recently completed work on section 192 deductions, which will be proactively released this Friday, alongside the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report. This evidence reflects that these sanctions are not in the best interests of children, and there is no evidence that they have achieved their original objective to encourage child support applications. The previous Government received the same advice in 2016. I\u2019ve also seen international evidence which suggests that a very harsh sanctions regime can have adverse effects that drive people away from, rather than closer to, employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b4ab193c7764ad6885313221eaab3c7\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister concerned that, despite this reduction in numbers, there are still over 15,000 children who are missing out because of this sanction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ff58c2006e4127b682d1d4f84473ff\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am concerned about that, particularly based on the evidence I have seen, which shows that sole parents who have this deduction applied to them are one of the major groups who rely on other supplementary assistance through the welfare system. I look forward to working with our coalition and confidence and supply partners to address this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c612654a561440581d018c4f5f58ee6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00229b311a44af5c4263b110359ced634265\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b311a44af5c4263b110359ced634265\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements, policies, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002252dd4147af9243ed9cf424ace09c2746\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252dd4147af9243ed9cf424ace09c2746\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ea3eac592643f7b02c0540ab18332a\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen New Zealand Police evidence that New Zealanders consume around 16 kilograms of methamphetamine a week, doing $20 million worth of social harm, and what effect will the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill have on communities given that it will decriminalise personal consumption of these drugs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256911d577c8a49829e5c80869333fd42\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, the member is incorrect in her characterisation of the Misuse of Drugs Act (MODA). There is still the ability within the legislation for an individual to be prosecuted for personal use and possession. What we have proposed is to codify what the police tell us is what they do in practice, which is to take a health-based approach for those who are caught with enough to be considered to be using for personal use. Evidence around the world suggests that a health-based approach is the best way to reduce the harm of drugs in our society that the member talks about. That means using drug and alcohol addiction services rather than prisons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290e8d02926c14fd59c9d1fe8a53bbf12\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the New Zealand Drug Foundation and the Police Association, and others, who presented at the select committee this morning and who said they do not believe there will be any prosecutions for those who are using drugs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e9873ba60604eeda30d18f3f4c9fa04\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, as I say, I\u2019ve relied on the advice from the police and, of course, the likes of the Ministry of Justice. I\u2019ve seen the Police Association\u2019s submission very recently\u2014happy to look at the suggestions that they have made and the points they\u2019ve made, but, again, it is the police themselves who have suggested this would simply codify their practice in law, and this is the House that wants to base its decisions on research and evidence. I would be very surprised if the Drug Foundation did not support that move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733d64b272644442945a28a6ebb87066\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister concerned about the most recent report from the Coroner that says 80 people died from synthetic drugs in less than two years, and is she committed to urgently addressing the supply of these drugs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0e103d6e7d4e7b825bff89280f6c7b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. That\u2019s exactly why the misuse of drugs legislation increases dramatically the penalty for those who manufacture and supply synthetic cannabis, because we are concerned about the harm it\u2019s doing. However, when it comes to those who are users, we do not believe that the best way to prevent their death is by arresting them and putting them in prison. Instead, we believe the best way is to make sure that they get the treatment and support they need to cease their use of dangerous drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab8c736c5819458ca0e5fa4e393985a6\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government support, at the third reading of my member\u2019s bill today, the increasing of penalties for those found guilty of supplying dangerous psychoactive substances in order to urgently make our communities safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef087ae1240443581c8ad4277097cda\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, because our bill does it in a more substantive way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c4a0a698134ea793565f7e5e8ce279\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the confidence and supply agreement with the Green Party requires that this Government treat drugs as the health issues that they are, and does she believe that this is a better approach to solving problems of addition than criminalisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208313ab5948549d4987c783e8aab0efa\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and all of the international evidence backs up that approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee55bdc5a39e4e6888a3f23610c5bd8b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 10, Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u2014[Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de6c9accebd4ee19dda46bf30df3912\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she\u2019s arguing with me, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb5ab283a2045d6b932fe8288de98de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re arguing louder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d682e2825c40c9bfe3d284b6e5a055\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: That could be true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec94440bd07a47878aaea5435e9ed71c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and it\u2019s while I\u2019m calling a member, which sort of\u2014[Interruption] Both of you should know better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f99b296e615466eb69d3ac4ae715b91\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u002243312ab2032141b6b21fb873951ad36d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243312ab2032141b6b21fb873951ad36d\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What support, if any, has the Government introduced to help families with heating costs over the winter months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022508cf81dcfcc4798af11bdc2841e0752\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022508cf81dcfcc4798af11bdc2841e0752\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Last year, we introduced the winter energy payment, which was implemented on 1 July 2018 as part of the Government\u2019s Families Package. Single people who are eligible will receive an extra $20.46 a week and eligible couples and people with dependent children will get an extra $31.82 a week from 1 May to 1 October this year\u20141 May. The winter energy payment has the largest eligible population for financial support within the welfare system and benefits around 1 million New Zealanders. Under this policy, more Kiwis will receive a helping hand to keep their homes warm and dry over the coming winter months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebcd8add252b4ae49c0217ade62bea1f\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received about the winter energy payment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022514bee4b19954c29bb8ab4bb59f8d2fd\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Overwhelmingly, the feedback has been positive. We have had people over the year tell us what a difference this payment has made, helping them keep their homes warmer and themselves and their families healthier. Recently, I have had people write in to say that they can finally use their heating without the fears of it being unaffordable come the end of the month. Some have said that the additional support almost brought them to tears. We are proud of the impact that this payment is having for Kiwis across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca76fdb95924e78a415e004820c585f\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cf8221837af44df911734ce50be3c40\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Winter is coming. As we know, every year too many of our seniors are hospitalised due to respiratory illnesses during this period. I\u2019ve also been told of many others in our communities on low incomes concerned about\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f11c55e5795455281acc594dfb73aff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! At the risk of wanting to show a personal interest in this, I would like to hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272af160a2f564805a132c8fdc527f1f8\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Would you like me to start again, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb3c182689f4445490d2440c5dd51949\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28a5bd3b964459091e1827d33787c76\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. I\u2019ve also been told of many others in our communities on low incomes concerned about the cost of heating, with some seniors saying that they stay in bed all day just to keep warm during winter. That\u2019s not right, and we can do better. The winter energy payment is a simple but important way of supporting over a million New Zealanders to keep warm and stay healthy over winter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a82869805d6452f97818c1c2607916b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00228e8a6ee5a16a431db38372f7a23e6af5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e8a6ee5a16a431db38372f7a23e6af5\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: Does she agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement in May last year that \u201CIn early childhood education, the average wait for help from the early intervention service is about 74 days. And in the life of a little three- or four-year-old child who\u2019s hungry to learn, that\u2019s 74 days too long. Today\u2019s announcement will halve the current waiting list for services, as well as help meet future demand\u201D; and, if so, what is the average wait [time] for help from the early intervention service today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247250b6d0fac421eab04ec2bd2524372\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think there\u2019s an extra word, but we\u2019ll go for it anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4a5069a1850458e9c997d06bac57b23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4a5069a1850458e9c997d06bac57b23\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I also agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s press release\u2014also in May last year\u2014that outlined that this was a four year budget and a reduction target. This acknowledged that it takes longer than a year to rebuild a workforce neglected for nine years. Currently, the average waiting times to receive support from early intervention services is 106 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df74b9cecc5845cd9eab56f32bd48535\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister confirming that despite the Prime Minister\u2019s promise, waiting times for early intervention have increased under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5adc7b16eda48289431c26d36753b40\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I am confirming that after nine years of neglect, with no workforce planning, this Government invested $21.5 million in April last year. Since then, 120 extra specialists have been employed in specialist services. Over the four-year period of that budget, with the roll-out of the learning support delivery model, with the roll-out of learning support coordinators in 2020, to improve a system that was broken under the previous lot, yes; that is true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce28111e1e794e848159a18308365c07\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by her reported statements that \u201CMost teachers and most parents will have not noticed a single bit of difference\u201D and \u201CIt just hasn\u2019t worked\u201D; and, if so, will she take responsibility for this failure to deliver for children in need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d591923cab047dcaa8382e366165891\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by all the statements I make, but the reason why it hasn\u2019t worked is the other part of the statement I made on the radio, which was, I believe, a 21 percent increase in behavioural needs, a 15 percent increase in oral language needs, and a 15 percent increase in other needs. So, unfortunately, quite rightly, $21.5 million\u201410 times what was previously invested over a nine-year period by the last organisation\u2014when we started so far behind the eight ball, has not been enough; hence why this Government is rolling out the learning support delivery model across the whole of New Zealand by the end of this year. We\u2019ll have the first tranche of 600 learning support coordinators on the ground, and the pilots tell us that when the early childhood education providers are a part of the learning support coordinator and the learning support delivery model, wait times drop. It takes a while to repair nine years\u2019 worth of damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a9b794b3054e6b8e34d74c0bb275cc\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: By what date will the Government deliver on the Prime Minister\u2019s promise to halve waiting lists for early intervention?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdf974450d241148b9328fe39ddafb0\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Recognising that that was a statement made about a four-year budget and so therefore a four-year target, recognising that there had been no workforce planning, that it takes five to seven years to train an oral language specialist, and recognising that this Government put in 10 times in one year what that Government only invested in nine years, it will take time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fba3068bfad84bb8933c74d783a32c29\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Statistics\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3bb2c3a82f344f9962293dc2566505a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3bb2c3a82f344f9962293dc2566505a\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Statistics: Does he stand by his answer to oral question No. 12 on 12 April 2018 that \u201CWhat I would say is that this census looks to be more successful than previous censuses, that we\u2019re meeting all of our targets, and that that person, whoever wrote that article, should stop believing everything that he sees on Twitter\u201D; and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00221fc3f453d2414291b42b74c9ee20cb4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fc3f453d2414291b42b74c9ee20cb4f\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister of Statistics):\u003C/span\u003E I feel I covered a fair amount of territory on this topic yesterday, so I will just say yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1e72e8a5f84fbe819727302db33569\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Was The Northland Age editor Peter Jackson incorrect when he described the census as showing all the hallmarks of being a shambles, and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc922dc76ccb4f399aa1d3ec5fb8f799\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said the previous two times I\u2019ve been asked about this in the House, when I said this census looks to be more successful than previous censuses, I was referring to online response rates and other targets, which, at that point, Statistics New Zealand have advised me, they were on track to meet or exceed. There are significant successes with the 2018 census. The 4.7 million population count is a better count than the 2013 census. There is more comprehensive M\u0101ori ethnicity and M\u0101ori descent than ever before. Online participation was substantially higher than expected, and Statistics New Zealand is now several years ahead of their work programme that was signed off by the previous Government in the business case in 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c3f2db255634f21b1a666442d22a39e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: All made up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022629a92a3613046af934338fe682cd659\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Just before the member asks his supplementary, Mr Brownlee, you are now being repetitious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022190ba62ab82d4065a19387abc7c10db6\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Victoria University School of Mathematics and Statistics Professor Richard Arnold\u2019s statement on census 2018, \u201CIt is disastrous.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a25cc2b2a5194c499383b3f4e5907b1b\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I have said now several times, yes, I do disagree with that. The member and others have failed to distinguish between the outputs of the census versus the inputs of the census. We\u2019ve always said that there were clearly problems in the field collection phase of the census, but if the member was paying attention to what the Government Statistician said this previous Monday, the output of the census is starting to look very successful indeed. There are gaps in the data, and we are working very hard to fill those gaps, but at the level of data that\u2019s required for some of the most important uses, such as district health board funding\u2014[Interruption] See, the issue here seems to be that the National Party are attempting to weaponise their own incompetence. I would suggest that they allow the Public Service to continue the good work that they have been doing in line with the business case that was signed off in 2015 by the previous Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270cbb5d3c9f14757b170d2fa24c18d37\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that the northernmost newspaper, The Northland Age, is pointing out the failure of an online attack with respect to the census, when there should have been a backup\u2014and who was responsible for not getting that ready?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022634c6df8967a4aa786b2f913f5a4fb0d\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: As I said yesterday, I am reserving my judgment on the execution of this service until I receive the report of the independent review conducted by a management consultant, Murray Jack, and the former Canadian deputy chief statistician, Connie Graziadei, which I\u2019m expecting before July and, at that point, I will pass judgment on every aspect of the budget, including the decisions of the previous Government to conduct and fund the census the way that they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271a2a01e0154f279d6a2adf0fb45d6f\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain how Census 2018 could have an optimal output but a suboptimal input?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d485d8685d4bddb34eb2a7fa19d7aa\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, actually, and I\u2019m very glad that the member asked that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c111e134c4b49b195725d27fb15cc49\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know if the House is going to thank the member for asking that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f160f338f64b96a8570a5353480ac0\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: So, as the previous Government intended, what the census output includes is a mix of data that\u2019s gathered as a result of the census forms that people participate in and a set of administrative data, the kind of data that Government collects all the time about people and that Mr Brownlee insists is made up. That kind of information is things like births, deaths, and marriages, which Mr Brownlee insists is made-up data. It includes things like ACC, which Mr Brownlee insists is made-up data. It includes things like education records, that Mr Brownlee insists is made-up data. It includes things like health information, that Mr Brownlee insists is made-up data, and that data\u2014real data about real people\u2014is added to the census file from the forms that are gathered during the census process. Now, the data file of 4.7 million people that the Government Statistician referred to on Monday, a more accurate file than the 2013 census, which the National Government was also responsible for, was composed 89 percent from census forms and 11 percent from administrative data. That is completely in line with the long-term transformation of the census that that Government signed off on in 2015, and you should congratulate them for their foresight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a815fec518894d0b965238877d9e38a1\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Massey University Professor of Statistics, Professor Paul Spoonley, who said yesterday, \u201CI think that DHBs at this point are going to be incredibly nervous about having a good census data set that tells them what sort of catchment they are working in and the needs of that catchment\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246cd5ee9f74641ef9f5c626575ff6cdd\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: No, I do not agree. I do not agree with him, and I do not agree with him because\u2014and I repeat\u2014as the Government Statistician said on Monday, we have a more accurate population count file than we have ever had before. And that is the kind of information that gets used for DHB funding and electorate boundaries. And if the National Party want to continue to try and undermine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9fd54efa5334486ac4ad11ffc66aaaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think that it now certainly meets any definition of tedious repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb68ec3ec5d44a8bbb054798b408050\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That part of the questioning today is extremely important. The prospect of there being electoral boundaries drawn on information that many people have less than a high degree of confidence in is, I think, quite dangerous for our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211615ad3b4dd46c59cf8563691a42e73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has asked for the member to have an extension of time and feels like he wants to have more. I\u2019m happy to grant Mr Brownlee his point of order and ask Mr Shaw, in fact, to start that supplementary answer again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ea907a4c8c409082b3e365fc01c690\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, certainly. I\u2019d be quite happy to do that\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d11dc9ffb60e416d966d61d577f6c178\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b58e727d9ea423993d55ea416bac77c\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and maybe if Mr Brownlee had been paying attention, he would have understood why\u2014[Interruption]. Well, he\u2019s clearly not interested, so I\u2019ll sit down. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d1da96f0d94cdc9919110e4499cfa1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, part of the problem I have is that there are a number of members who complain when the answers are extensive, and then we have very senior members on my left asking Mr Shaw to take us through it. [Interruption] Well, Mr Shaw, can you take us through it quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deecafa9aa474755a0345fb0e9096e3b\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: One more time\u2014just one more time. So, by using administrative data, Stats NZ has been able to create a data set that includes records for 4.7 million people. This is 1.2 percent lower than their estimated population for census day, compared to 2.4 percent lower in the 2013 census. Now, what Mr Brownlee is asking about is whether we can trust administrative data. What I am saying is that if he cannot trust administrative data, there is literally no data in the Government that he should ever have been able to rely on while he was a Minister in Government, because that administrative data is the kind of data that the Government collects all the time. The long-term business case that that Government signed off on in 2014 called for the increased use of administrative data over the next two or three census cycles, and what we are now doing is what that Government had planned for the 2023 census, and it is working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d1ebf514a6480abb1d38fdedeb42c3\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Brian Easton, who described the census mess as so serious that \u201Cthe response gap was so large it could make the data useless for research\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7fe920362d242e4b85aa066eb86642d\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e896ba2f773f4d4bbe69386be5fdd9a3\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former Labour Party president Mr Mike Williams that Census 2018 was \u201Can industrial-strength fiasco\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c12831d54de0484ba3c32afd03cbfcd5\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I didn\u2019t agree with that the first time the member put it to me a couple of months back, and I still don\u2019t agree with it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5c5136464d349ca8e1e623711b1a2e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member finished? That concludes oral questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff0b6bb0324d4ccaa37a1d2426b13486\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dce2f1b66ab422d9e47630dda3cbc3d\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002281f291d5cdfd4b7b91b8e5489200b989\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281f291d5cdfd4b7b91b8e5489200b989\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EYou know, when they play the political gold back over the last few years, that last interchange is bound to be there. That was something special. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one thing we need to remember about this Government in 2019, and that\u2019s that the Prime Minister has said, and she\u2019s made it quite clear, that this is the year of delivery. That\u2019s what it is: it\u2019s the year of delivery. Actually, yesterday, she said\u2014[Interruption]\u2014Grant Robertson\u2014it was the year of striving. That\u2019s where she was\u2014the year of delivery\u2014and so far, we don\u2019t have even a roundabout to Shane Jones\u2019 house that\u2019s been delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESo what has the Government delivered? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da80d2354a840cf9d5441db7c27c524\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b04c50b1d4422692841ab1f3b682a0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, nothing. Slushies\u2014Kelvin Davis says 193 slushy machines, at nearly $6,000 each. Well, Grant Robertson drank them all\u2014that\u2019s the situation there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWell, I want to take you through it: KiwiBuild. Well, at $2 billion for 33 houses, does it\u2014[Interruption] Shh! Shh! Transport is in absolute disarray. On Friday, their mate Michael Stiassny resigned, and, in fact, nearly all of the staff at the New Zealand Transport Agency have resigned because they went there to build roads and not a single new road has been started in the last 18 months. In health, it\u2019s getting worse. We\u2019ve got a situation where we\u2019ve got no accountabilities\u2014they did away with those\u2014where the targets in health have been cancelled, where deficits are growing, and where, right at the moment, all around this country\u2014Winston Peters\u2014doctors are striking, putting lives at risk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220315b7de51b4e25bed42905e2bf34e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMr\u201D to you\u2014\u201CMr\u201D to you, junior.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6fb8ce7426843bb99afea51c917d5a8\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Putting lives at risk, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got the situation where in education, there\u2019s how many reviews? Eighteen ideological reviews coming at you in that area, and today, from Nicola Willis, we\u2019ve had a remarkable example of the waiting list for preschoolers needing extra help. It has exploded from 74 days to 106 days. As the Prime Minister said, \u201CIn the life of a [little] 3 or 4-year-old child who\u2019s [too] hungry to learn, that\u2019s 74 days too long.\u201D Tracey Martin, when asked by Nicola Willis how long it was going to take them to meet their goal of halving that, said something like, I heard the quote, five to seven years\u2014five to seven years, from Tracey Martin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn the environment, we\u2019ve got nothing happening. In police, we\u2019ve got no 1,800 police officers promised\u2014that\u2019s something the Prime Minister tells us they are striving for. And in the economy, as Amy Adams has made quite clear in this House, we\u2019ve gone from 4 percent growth to 2 percent growth, and today, we saw what that means: 4,000 fewer jobs in New Zealand at the moment. In poverty, more beneficiaries, more hardship, and more housing grants in their thousands, and that in the year of so-called delivery is an absolute shame. And the members over there think it\u2019s a joke that the economy is worse, that poverty is worse, and that the cost of living is getting higher and higher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ERents under those members\u2019 watch, because of their taxes and regulation, are up some $50 a week, to $3,000. Electricity under his watch is up, and petrol prices are at their highest in six months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWell, on this side of the House, we\u2019ve got positive plans for this country, and we\u2019ll implement them quickly. We know that bills such as on tax indexation, no new taxes, repealing the oil and gas ban, and many other things will be great for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI want to finish today by talking about Nuk Korako, who\u2019s made a fine contribution to this Parliament and who has been a fantastic chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. I wish him, Chris, and his strapping lads all the very best for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fa6bc8448d43b8a0163cdcfb3c55d9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House for an extension of time for Mr Simon Bridges. I\u2019m allowed to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f710831cc0df4208866c8d73d241e8e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No the member\u2019s not. The member is not allowed to seek leave for another person to have an extension. That\u2019s been ruled many times that I have been in the House\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and I would prefer that he didn\u2019t make his supportive comments sotto voce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216c8ee957eb346efb3eef4e79c690871\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for an additional five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254b8a266589b4715820e7bd078c4da47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? It will be an extra five minutes as consistent with the leave sought by the Deputy Prime Minister, so everyone who is yet to have a speech will still get to have one. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224298ca21f973490da39ffd8c28f6624c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: The clowns on the other side think that somehow it\u2019s a bad thing if, in the National Party, we highlight, in the year of delivery, that they\u2019ve got no plans, no policies, they\u2019ve achieved absolutely nothing. Over there there\u2019s a muppet called Ron Mark, who\u2019s laughing, but he\u2019s been the poorest defence Minister that New Zealand\u2019s ever had. He wears the medals on the wrong side of his shirt, even though he knows that\u2019s wrong. And there\u2019s Winston Peters putting around a bit of paper like he\u2019s a tough, clever guy, but here\u2019s what we\u2019ve learnt this afternoon\u2014there\u2019s a couple of things. Number one: he\u2019s too scared to go into Pike River mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5d4373692504fc0b8893edd1a24be1f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows he cannot make that accusation. He will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a9b0cbd6a3d4839a22b3cd41a38bb56\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBut what we\u2019ve also learnt is he still sleeps on the job. I think it was question No.\u00A09, and the deep contemplation went on, on my stopwatch, for one minute and 35 seconds. Catnapping works, according to Winston Peters. I\u2019m glad I\u2019ve got more time, because I didn\u2019t get a chance to run through the 15 things that New Zealanders\u2014what Shane Jones, the guy whose sole contribution as Minister for Regional Economic Development so far is a roundabout to his house, that hasn\u2019t been built. That\u2019s what Shane Jones has contributed to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI heard Winston Peters on Magic, or one of these radio stations, saying \u201CWe\u2019ve done this, we\u2019ve done that.\u201D They\u2019ve done nothing. They didn\u2019t do away with M\u0101ori seats. They didn\u2019t do anything on immigration. Frankly, they haven\u2019t met a single promise they made at the last election. And Winston Peters says they have. Here\u2019s a challenge. This is not a trick question; there\u2019s nothing tricky about this. You can probably do this with your eyes closed, Winston Peters. Give me one thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdedb4565e6d48c2a163b20ecdc2f923\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was trying to be beneficent and charitable by moving the motion, which you said is out of order, but he can\u2019t bring you into the debate. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7243c0e8c95408da7dd5341eea911a8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m trying to rule on a point of order. This is a robust debate. It\u2019s the most robust debate that we have. We tend to have a little bit of lenience in it, and I am giving that to the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207856c5eca4a4b5c961d502c5e48017f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: So I pose the question, albeit that question time\u2019s over in this place today, to the Rt Hon Winston Peters. It\u2019s a question that he should be able to answer when he stands up, with his eyes closed: name one thing\u2014one thing\u2014that he promised in the election campaign and that he\u2019s delivered, that has actually happened in New Zealand today. That\u2019s why, on our polling last night, he\u2019s on 1 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESee, on this side of the House, we\u2019ve got the policies, we\u2019ve got the plans, and we\u2019ll make action when we get into Government. We will ensure no new taxes. We\u2019ll ensure tax indexation, so that as cost of living has gone through the roof under that Government over there\u2014rents up $50 a week for the people who can least afford it, electricity up, petrol prices, I think, at $2.25 today around this country, the highest they\u2019ve been in some six months. About 16, 17c of that is tax imposed by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. We\u2019ll ensure that they are safe from those cost of living rises, through my tax indexation bill. We will repeal the needless restrictions around foreign investment. We will repeal the barmy oil and gas ban that means Winston Peters won\u2019t get a single vote in Taranaki. Not even his family will vote for him in that province. We\u2019ll repeal any changes to the three-strikes regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a radical thought: we\u2019ll introduce, again, just a little bit of accountability into the health system, into the public sector, so that, actually, we know how long people are waiting in emergency departments and how many cancer treatments are happening. Right at the moment, with doctors striking, there is absolutely no way to know, honestly, how many people are being hurt by that. We\u2019ll repeal the ridiculous industrial relations changes that are being made by the Government that are slowing this country down, that mean, when they were laughing earlier, actually, there are 4,000 fewer jobs going on in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll also make sure we introduce a comprehensive medicinal cannabis regime that\u2019s incredibly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227f6bde25b229446fb3511d3b27624d26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f6bde25b229446fb3511d3b27624d26\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u002256145fc0f0534a448a57cfb0ad586c71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256145fc0f0534a448a57cfb0ad586c71\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Green Party has long fought for an end to oil and gas exploration. That\u2019s why we are certainly not celebrating the recent onshore block offer in Taranaki. Globally, if we are to avoid the worst impacts of climate change, we need to keep at least 80 percent of the current fossil fuel reserves in the ground. Knowing this, exploring for new oil and gas reserves just doesn\u2019t make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe have been warned for years and years that climate change caused by humans is leading us on a worrying trajectory. We know that continuing with business as usual will have a disastrous outcome for planet Earth and humanity. It is time to act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EHere in Aotearoa, the Green Party is proud of its achievements in getting real action on climate change. We have achieved a ban on new offshore oil and gas exploration. Now, this wasn\u2019t in our confidence and supply agreement; this is something we negotiated and won as part of being in Government. It\u2019s a shame we were not able to convince our Government partners that onshore oil and gas exploration should also cease, but the people of Aotearoa and the world are calling on us to do better\u2014and the Green Party is listening to that call. My co-leader and the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw, will be ready to introduce a historic piece of legislation: the zero carbon bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EHere in New Zealand, we need Kiwi smarts and ingenuity and boldness to step up and ensure that we can look our kids and mokopuna in the eye and say that we did try our best to protect this planet. We need to be able to tell the thousands of students who marched and striked for the climate on 15 March, around this country, that they did not march for nothing. They are asking for system change, not climate change. They\u2019re asking for us to choose a liveable future for our whenua, tamariki, and communities rather than supporting the out-dated and dangerous business model of fossil fuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe Green Party will continue to fight hard for a swift transition away from fossil fuels, from all forms of oil and gas exploration. You will see more announcements about the progress we have made in Government in the coming weeks. We will also continue to fight hard for Government to support people through that transition and allow them to harness the opportunities that are safely available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe look forward to the Just Transition Summit in Taranaki next week. New Zealand has to be able to hold its head up high and say that, at a critical crossroad, we did the right thing, the enduring thing. We are the first generation to feel the impacts of climate change, but we are also the last generation that can actually stop it, and we must be able to say that we did just that. This will mean we\u2019ve done our part on the world stage to keep temperature rise below 1.5 degrees Celsius, slowing the melting of our ice caps that would lead to climate change disaster. The Greens have pushed to extend our oil and gas ban to include onshore prospecting and fracking but didn\u2019t get this over the line. If we care about our future, about our mokopuna, we need to end all oil and gas exploration. It\u2019s that simple. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a14adfd4814f65954bdfa2a2dc4279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a14adfd4814f65954bdfa2a2dc4279\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it has not been a great start to the year for the Government, you\u2019d have to say, wouldn\u2019t you? I mean, here we are. In January, the Prime Minister came out proudly and said, \u201CWell, never mind the first, sort of, 14, 15 months of our term\u2014this is going to be the year we get some stuff done.\u201D Then what did she do the very next day? The first item of business in the year of delivery, she came out and said, \u201CDo you know all those KiwiBuild targets? Yeah, nah, just kidding. We\u2019re not actually having those because we can\u2019t meet them.\u201D So that was the first item of delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThen we had a $2.5 million Tax Working Group that was going to deliver the greatest reform to a fair and just tax system. What did we get after 18 months of Michael Cullen on a thousand bucks a day and the Prime Minister telling us this would be the great transformation? Oh, now they don\u2019t believe in it any more. No, they\u2019re not going to do any of that\u2014none of that\u2019s actually happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThen on Friday, we\u2019ve got the Welfare Working Group coming out. Again, about another $2.5 million of a long working group with all of the worthies in a room trying to figure out how to fix the working group, and I can tell you now that there will be zero action on the recommendations of that report. I tell you now that it\u2019ll be another report where the only delivery this Government knows how to do is set up a working group, consult, consult, and then do nothing\u2014a do-nothing Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t the year of delivery; this is the year of deterioration. Every single core stat that actually talks to the well-being of New Zealanders is getting worse. You can talk about well-being all you like, Mr Robertson\u2014you can stick a well-being bumper sticker on your Budget as much as you want\u2014but the numbers don\u2019t lie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s what the numbers are telling New Zealanders about actual well-being. Child poverty\u2014the Prime Minister said child poverty was what she was all about. Well, there are nine child poverty measures; seven of them have got worse under this Government. Seven of nine have gone backwards\u2014and, by the way, seven of nine got better under National. There are now 4,000 fewer jobs in our economy. Now, this is an economy that\u2019s growing. There are more people here, but we have 4,000 fewer jobs for the people in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EKiwiBuild\u2014what a shemozzle that has been. Wasn\u2019t it going to be 10,000 houses a year? I\u2019m sure they said 10,000 houses a year. Well, they\u2019re 18 months through their term, and what have we got? Thirty-three\u201433 houses\u2014an utter fail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThe census, for heaven\u2019s sake. The census, the core data building block of all of our systems of Government and funding\u2014they have made a complete omnishambles of the census. The Minister is still in utter denial as to whether the census is viable or not. He still stands in the House and tells us it will be the best census ever. I\u2019m sorry, Mr Shaw, wake up. You\u2019re the only one who still thinks it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThen look at today with the revelations from Nicola Willis. Waiting times for special education services and early education\u2014this Government told us that 76 days is too long and they would halve them. What\u2019s happened? They\u2019ve almost doubled. That is not improving, that is not delivery, that is not well-being; it is total and utter incompetence and it is letting down the people of New Zealand. It is the very opposite of well-being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t have to look very far for the story to go on and on. The Provincial Growth Fund\u2014every single day, it seems that Shane Jones is caught out in another mess of his own making\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8b0b12c635434b80488aa565e071bf\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Another dodgy deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e685498ebf3a4638a368be9de2949ce1\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no process, dodgy deals, no transparency, hidden funding. This week we learn that they\u2019ve tried to give money to companies who haven\u2019t even asked for it. That is how desperate Shane Jones is to get some runs on the board. No jobs of any note being created, no projects being delivered\u2014all we\u2019re seeing is dodgy process from a dodgy and incompetent Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThis is not the year of delivery; this is the year of debacles. It is the year of decay. It is the year of actual well-being getting worse and worse under this Government, and I have no doubt that the people of New Zealand see through the spin. They see through the nonsense, and they know that when you\u2019ve now got 300 percent more people needing emergency housing help, things are getting worse; things are not getting better. They know that when you\u2019ve got 13,000 more people on benefits, 70 percent more people turning up for emergency hardship help, things are not getting better; they\u2019re getting worse. So if this is the year of delivery, then the rest of this country will be saying \u201CBring on the election.\u201D, because the incompetence, the failure, the debacles, and the arrogance we\u2019re seeing from this Government isn\u2019t helping the well-being of New Zealanders at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00220175cf1b8e064a978ad3366c55eac90b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220175cf1b8e064a978ad3366c55eac90b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E That member, Amy Adams, started off by saying that the numbers don\u2019t lie. Well, we on this side of the House might tend to agree with that, actually. With 5 percent in the polls, or just scraping 5 percent\u2014actually, behind, I think, Judith Collins as the preferred leader on that side of the House\u2014the numbers don\u2019t lie: he\u2019s not popular with the general public, and we know for a fact that he\u2019s not popular with his own caucus. We know that on that first Tuesday back from the Easter break, it wasn\u2019t Easter break stories that they were sharing over their long caucus meeting. When they put to us that we\u2019re a debacle, that there\u2019s decay on this side of the House, I have to challenge that and say the \u201CD\u201D that we need to be talking about with regards to that side of the House is \u201Cdissent\u201D\u2014dissent. We will see more of that play out over the coming months, I am sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThis side of the House is committed to delivery, and there already has been much that we have delivered. I\u2019m very proud of the fact that today, 1 May, marks the second year of the roll-out of the winter energy payment. That payment is one of the\u2014if not the\u2014biggest payment that has been pushed out through the welfare system, and we will see close to 1 million New Zealanders benefit from that winter energy payment. So that is part of what we\u2019ve delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker mentioned that, on Friday, the expert advisory group will be reporting back with their welfare report, and that will go public. I\u2019m really excited about that. That is going to help inform the overhaul of our welfare system that we have committed to as part of our confidence and supply agreement with the Green Party. We will be taking those recommendations seriously, and I\u2019m very grateful to the chair of that group, Cindy Kiro, and all of the members of that reference group who have helped inform that report. But the report is not all the overhaul. Some work has already begun, and I want to touch on some of those things to lay the platform for the work that we will continue with the recommendations that come from the expert advisory group\u2019s report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe, last year, launched the Families Package. That saw 384,000 families better off by an average of $75 per week and will lift 64,000 children out of poverty by 2021. As part of that, we saw the Best Start payment to help with the cost of children in the early years, and, of course, the winter energy payment, that I\u2019ve mentioned, to assist with heating costs over winter. We saw extended paid parental leave. We saw increases to the accommodation supplement and increases to the orphans benefit, the unsupported child\u2019s benefit, and the foster care allowance. So please don\u2019t tell us on this side of the House that we have not delivered anything as of yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAlongside that, my ministry has been focused on the cultural change shifts and service delivery that they had to undertake. I have to say that under the previous Government, what we saw was an absolute focus on getting people off benefits, with no regard for whether they went on to a better situation and whether or not they and their families were better off. What that ended up creating was a shift away from that duty of care that we should naturally see through our welfare system and which we are attempting to put back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAs part of that culture change, already we have seen changes to the layout of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) offices. We have seen the eligibility guide launched so we can make sure that the New Zealanders who are eligible for support from MSD are actually getting that support. We have taken steps to ensure that benefit recipients are treated with respect in all of their interactions. All of those who access support from MSD should be treated with respect and have their dignity upheld, whether or not they are an unemployed young person, a superannuitant, a disabled person, or anybody else that needs to seek out the support of MSD, and we are focused on making that happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House believe that if you treat people right, if you support people in the right ways, then, actually, you will support them to be able to take up meaningful opportunities for themselves and their families. We do not believe in the punitive culture that the previous Government undertook, and the evidence supports the fact that it did not work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022988d18d962494a459ffdfbed1eb41982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022988d18d962494a459ffdfbed1eb41982\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E There is no better illustration of the non-delivery of this Government in their year of delivery than in the health sector. Last month, I went to the Southern District Health Board\u2019s board meeting, where I found out that on a year-to-date basis, their elective cardiac surgery target was behind by 45 percent. They had only achieved 55 percent of their year-to-date target. So I did some back-of-the-envelope math, and I asked the Minister for some answers. That equates to over 70 people who should\u2019ve got their elective surgery by now and who haven\u2019t. There are another 30 to 40 people in the Canterbury region\u2014over 100 people who should\u2019ve had their cardiac surgery by now that haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EFor the first time in 10 years, we are on track to do fewer elective surgeries than in the previous year, on both a numbers and a case-weighted basis, and yesterday, in question time, the Minister said that it was going to get worse. Another 2,300 elective surgeries have been cancelled this week alone as a consequence of the junior doctors\u2019 strike. He also said that he was aware that there had been people who had been cancelled not once, not twice, but even more than that. So it\u2019s not overstating it to say that in this year of delivery, people\u2019s health and even their lives are at risk as a consequence of this Government\u2019s mismanagement of the health sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut he was happy to be responsible for the cheaper GP fees for more than 600,000 New Zealanders\u2014fair enough\u2014but what he didn\u2019t say was two things: it was six months late, and, actually, what they promised was cheaper GP fees for every single New Zealander. Four and a half million New Zealanders were going to get cheaper GP fees from this Government, and they let them down by about three million. Remember Dr Clark wailing and gnashing his teeth in Opposition at a survey that showed that one in seven New Zealanders were not able to go to a GP because of affordability? And what\u2019s happened\u2014the number of people who can\u2019t afford to go to the GP has gone up, not down. Over this Government\u2019s time, it\u2019s gone from 14.3 percent to 14.9 percent\u2014non-delivery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s the world-class cancer care they promised? Where\u2019s the response to the mental health and addiction report that the Minister has had for months and has been delayed three times? Now they\u2019re saying they\u2019re going to fold it into Budget 2019. That\u2019s OK, but there are a number of very good recommendations in that report that don\u2019t have any financial impact. They could have been doing it now\u2014not delivering. Where\u2019s the free health checks, and the free eye checks for our senior New Zealanders, and the increase in the age for breast-cancer screening to the age of 74, which is in the New Zealand First - Labour coalition agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd5dfaa85de468a92e2b94134d6eddf\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Where are they? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222883e2d397d7426eaae52f1b83ab0ff3\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Nowhere to be seen, not delivered on, and don\u2019t even start me on medicines-funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s the money for Dunedin Hospital? We all looked at each other in Budget 2018 when it came out and said, \u201CNo money in the budget for Dunedin Hospital\u201D. Well, I\u2019m going to make a prediction: at the end of this month, in Budget 2019, there\u2019s going to be no money for Dunedin Hospital. This is from a Minister who, in Opposition, petitioned the previous Parliament that the Government should have started the rebuild of Dunedin Hospital in 2017 and, two years later, not a thing\u2014non-delivery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s because this is a Government that\u2019s got its priorities completely wrong. It\u2019s given fees-free in student fees to the children of millionaires, but it didn\u2019t let the millionaires miss out either; if they were over 65 they were going to get the winter energy payment whether they needed it or not. My colleagues who are still having children, who are still high income earners\u2014some of them on several hundred thousand dollars a year\u2014are getting a baby bonus. In the meantime, elective surgery is going backwards. The removal of national health targets that the Minister said created perverse incentives has created even more perverse incentives. People could be dying because the Minister does not want to set expectations for throughput of our DHBs\u2014non-delivery in surgery; non-delivery in cancer care. We had Blair Vining standing at the Cancer Care at the Crossroads conference where his wife said her husband would be dead if he had kept to the appointment that the Southern District Health Board had given them. This is a Government that is not delivering and it\u2019s not got its priorities right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00221c0a6a39f2e344ef9a5e6861aec0df59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c0a6a39f2e344ef9a5e6861aec0df59\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E What a load of rubbish from a former Minister who wouldn\u2019t know what today is. Today is May Day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47e48e42bbf4e2d8cdda364655dfad5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: May Day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b460a6f329a4850b044c1db2b1210e9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: May Day. But that former Minister\u2014he\u2019s running out now\u2014tortured workers for nine years in his role. Shocking\u2014it was shocking, the type of things that he brought in: taking away rest breaks, taking away meal breaks for workers. Who would ever envisage that a Government could do that type of thing? They took away the reinstatement area for workers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a586377832f94aa18e56c28dd28502f4\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Ask Mike Williams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200f1f12e9aef49a9ab0abc2a4aed8134\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Shocking stuff. Ninety-day trials\u2014Mr Seymour would have supported that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed278fe21b542e9aa65de3ac2fbf9e2\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: That was a great policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf60b031a7164760bec5b2d99deb9cf6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not a great policy. It\u2019s something that this Government has addressed seriously over the last year. Now, I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that has brought balance back to the workplace\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df90127f902a4bf3ae94d2bf475c19f6\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: But he\u2019s not part of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f4c9d9d542a47daa40175720d08ea1d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014who\u2019s not part of the Government? Get a life, Mr Seymour. You\u2019re not even part of the Opposition. But in terms of bringing balance to the workplace, that\u2019s what this Government has done. We\u2019ve had to do it because of the shocking work of that previous member who had no aroha at all for our workers. We\u2019ve brought the minimum wage up to $17.70; $20 by 2021\u2014isn\u2019t that just great? We\u2019re going to bring parity, we\u2019re going to give the equity to workers, and we\u2019re going to restore balance to our Employment Relations Act by reclaiming basic modern workplace conditions for our workers. We\u2019re increasing Working for Families by $75 a week\u2014$75 a week\u2014and rolling that out to up to about 26,000 families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c354e41b2694bed9a4df42d46a56bc9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s running out of steam already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ce0057b68b4a8bbc9d1d9fdfb06b86\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re increasing paid parental leave, Mr Seymour, from 18 to 22 weeks. So I\u2019m proud of the work we\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAs well as that, we\u2019re going to invest in skills. We\u2019re going to invest\u2014we\u2019ve got a skill strategy in terms of people in this country. Mana in Mahi, He Poutama Rangatahi\u2014you name it. We\u2019re doing great work in the provinces now. Shane Jones is doing a fantastic job right around the area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d56a5bdc02a44599bb70fc20c577158\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s run out of material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c508ccf5a6b4430fa9b4cd4753c5db99\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: You wouldn\u2019t know out there because you don\u2019t understand the impact that the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is having with the regions. It\u2019s just fantastic. They say to me, \u201CNational did nothing. They didn\u2019t care. They didn\u2019t care about us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e390aa7342e4418882621ff3ea4bbb2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who says that, Willie? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155db08be80c4594b0160f06a4f76300\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: They say that all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb7243c27184633a3f686f11e89d226\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who says that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7f4056a0a70499c9a0431c9938a1bdf\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Jim Smith from your area. They say it all the time\u2014how the PGF is having an effect. The regions know about this. That\u2019s why so many members are attending some of the hui that we have out in the regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m proud of the work we\u2019re doing, and it\u2019s great to celebrate it on May Day\u2014a day where we, again, examine the divisions within the National Party. We saw it on display today. Simon Bridges fighting for his life\u2014Simon Bridges. But I want everyone to tell Simon today: the M\u0101ori support him in Labour. He\u2019s got our full support. Peeni Henare has offered to do a waiata for him. Willow-Jean Prime will help him with his reo, because it\u2019s so tragic. We will support Simon, even though the National Party won\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELook, I understand most of the M\u0101ori in the National Party are useless. We understand that\u2014apart from our good man Nuk Korako, who\u2019s going today. What a good man. It\u2019s so sad he\u2019s being booted out of the National Party because he supports tino rangatiratanga and the M\u0101ori in Labour. So the only good ones in there: Nuk; Shane Reti, because he delivered Peeni Henare\u2019s babies; and Harete Hipango. That\u2019s about it. The rest are useless. Paula Bennett\u2014well, she doesn\u2019t know if she\u2019s a M\u0101ori. Some days she does and some days she doesn\u2019t. Dan Bidois\u2014he needs to go back to Italy. And Jo Hayes\u2014Jo wouldn\u2019t have a clue. A great example of that with Jo was when she did her Wh\u0101nau Ora attack on us and failed miserably. She was even told to shut up by Nuk\u2014I think Bill English got to her too\u2014but she carried on, carried on, carried on. The Auditor-General gave us a full clearance, much to the embarrassment of the useless Jo Hayes, and Nuk Korako apologised to me for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I want to say to the National Party today, who are split and divided: yes, you have useless M\u0101oris\u2014but the good one is going today. One of the best, Nuk Korako, is going today. However, we\u2019re backing Simon. Please get that message to him, because he\u2019s desperate. We saw him today. He\u2019s desperate there, grovelling for more support\u2014shocking, the way he was insulting us. But he\u2019s from Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto, I\u2019m from Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto, and I\u2019m obliged to help him. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d44eeb54ca7c4074a774562d5e3452ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d44eeb54ca7c4074a774562d5e3452ad\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY SPEAKER (Erica Stanford)\u003C/span\u003E: I call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35cfe1565574b8f950e67e2e0249c78\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Temporary Speaker, you can call whoever you like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feb9f67b615a4f53acf795b4c61a3c15\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY SPEAKER (Erica Stanford)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Matt Doocey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00226fb3048ab1724c6ea1668f4a09bcfb34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fb3048ab1724c6ea1668f4a09bcfb34\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014very good choice, Madam Temporary Speaker. Very good choice, Madam Temporary Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EToday, I want to talk about mental health. As the country and the mental health sector waits for the report back from the Government and waits for budgetary decisions for Budget 2019, I want to propose that, in fact, only one figure will be acceptable for mental health in Budget 2019, and that figure is $1.5 billion. I believe that if the amount of $1.5 billion is not announced for mental health, they haven\u2019t delivered in that area, and the reason for that is their own inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe main recommendation said they wanted to increase access for mental health services from 3 percent of the population to 20 percent of the population over five years. Currently, in Vote Health, we spend $1.35 billion in delivering to 3 percent of the population to provide them with access to mental health. Taking those members\u2019 number one recommendation for their inquiry report, to increase to 20 percent would require an extra investment of $1.5 billion a year for the next five years, and I would state that is the reason why we\u2019re hearing nothing about mental health\u2014silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen they were in Opposition, it was the biggest issue; now, in Government, they\u2019ve had their inquiry and they don\u2019t like the recommendations. We can even look at the coalition agreement that states the target for mental health is to \u201CEnsure everyone has access to timely and high quality mental health services,\u201D. That goal in the coalition agreement for mental health is that everyone in New Zealand will have access to mental health services. How is that achievable? They overpromised and under-delivered, and that\u2019s why, unless we hear an announcement of $1.5 billion for mental health in Budget 2019, they will have under-delivered. Not only that, they will have let down every submitter who made a submission to that inquiry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b0f719e29014af7a0a6ab736ca6ddc4\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: How much did National give to mental health? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a679785260546dab7b46b007f67ee85\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and every person who works in the mental health sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe hear a call of \u201CHow much did National put in?\u201D Well, interesting\u2014that came up today, because we heard from Ross Bell from the New Zealand Drug Foundation, talking about the bill that was in front of the Health Committee. When we talked about those who have complex needs from synthetic cannabis use, Ross Bell talked about, really, the fact that the only policy that will work with that complex client group is to have social housing and wraparound support, and we\u2019ve heard about that, haven\u2019t we? That was one of the 17 mental health initiatives that got announced for $100 million in Budget 2017, and that\u2019s what this Government has rolled back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThey took out $100 million from mental health\u201417 mental health initiatives that would have been making a difference on the ground today. How about the policy and the programme of pairing emergency responders with mental health professionals? The police were disappointed when that got rolled back by this Government. That would\u2019ve been a game-changer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThose were 17 mental health initiatives that would have been game-changers. They were developed by the mental health sector and the Chief Science Advisor. That Government came in, and those members had talked about mental health while they were in Opposition. They talked a big game, and here we are, 18 months in\u2014silence. We\u2019ve been told successively, \u201CDecember, February, March, April\u2014you\u2019ll get the report back on the inquiry.\u201D Last week, we got told, \u201CBecause it had budgetary expectations.\u201D Well, actually, no\u2014not all the recommendations do. Repealing and reviewing the mental health Act doesn\u2019t. You could have come out with your report on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, as we wait for Budget 2019, there\u2019s only going to be one figure that will show this Government has delivered for mental health, and that will be $1.5 billion of extra funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022455da19e47f8415794ee70a6e6d1498b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022455da19e47f8415794ee70a6e6d1498b\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Pacific Peoples):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s amazing that after nine long years of being in Government, that side has only now just realised how important mental health is. This Government has identified mental health as one of five key priorities in the upcoming Budget. In 18 months, we\u2019ve recognised and the work has been done, and so I would just say, hold your horses. It is a priority, but I\u2019m amazed that it\u2019s taken the previous Government nine long years to suddenly have somebody here in the House recognise that it is a priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EWhen Sir Bill English stepped down from the office of leader of the National Party, there were many people from that side of the House that raised their hand and wanted to be a leader: Paula Bennett, Amy Adams, I think my friend Mark Mitchell himself had his hand up, Mr Simon Bridges, and Ms Judith Collins. I remember Mr Simon Bridges walking in front of the House, and, although I\u2019m not a member of the National caucus, in the spirit of parliamentary comradeship, I called out, \u201CI\u2019m supporting you, Simon. I\u2019m going to give you my vote\u201D. But alas, after 18 months, there was a lot of expectation\u2014high hopes, the slick hairdo and that, and the early days of his ministerial role; there was high expectation\u2014but all we are now hearing is that he\u2019s failed to support and to provide the kind of leadership that their caucus requires. In fact, now there\u2019s talk of Judith Collins taking the role, and, I suppose, when a leader starts calling members of your caucus useless behind the scenes, I suspect that what they now want is somebody who can tell that to their face. So rather than speaking behind the scenes, they want a leader that can be upfront, say it to their face, and just crush the living daylights out of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EBut, when I\u2019m listening to the speeches in this general debate, it\u2019s amazing how, suddenly, after nine long years, in 18 months they\u2019ve found that they now have a heart. They are raising issues which we raised when we were in Opposition. But in nine years, their Government entrenched poverty, entrenched hopelessness, entrenched unemployment, and entrenched low income. In 18 months, we\u2019ve managed to lift the well-being, from the package\u2014the Families Package\u2014that was introduced when we came in to Government. In fact, on this day, today, we\u2019re raising the winter energy payment. A million people will benefit from the winter energy payment: older people, those who cannot afford to pay for power to warm their homes. Those are the people that they\u2019re now claiming to have a heart for. But in nine years, they never did anything to address the poverty that we are now having to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo the nine years of neglect is what we are now laying the foundation, in the first 18 months, to build on to restore confidence in the public services, in housing, in health, in raising income, and in education. We know that by and large, the citizens of this country the length and breadth of Aotearoa recognise that after the harm and the damage and the neglect and the under-investment they produced in nine years, it\u2019s going to take more than that to address the neglect. So I\u2019m proud that not only has the winter energy payment gone up; superannuation has gone up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EThe income levels: this is significant, and Mr Willie Jackson identified the fact that we\u2019ve reduced unemployment to the second-lowest in the last decade. In so reducing unemployment, we\u2019ve also raised wages. Those two things are really, really important because, in their nine years, not only was unemployment high but the incomes of the workforce were low, because what they did in their nine years was skewer the system so it benefited the top 10 percent of income earners in New Zealand while everybody else had to figure out how to survive for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ESo 18 months\u2014lots of work has been done tackling the neglect that that previous Government produced in nine years. But we know that there is much more work to do, and it is the year of the delivery, and we will deliver, for the first time ever, the well-being Budget in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00223a1ce25b88fa46fa8f00aaed8b5422f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a1ce25b88fa46fa8f00aaed8b5422f2\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. So the parties across the way, when they came into Government, tried to sell New Zealanders a dream. What they are delivering is an absolute nightmare. We\u2019ve got a softening economy, weaker job growth, and we\u2019ve got rising costs of living, particularly for beneficiaries. The very people that those parties have always purported to represent are feeling the most pain under the regressive approaches and the increased costs that this Government is imposing upon them. Things like fuel excise taxes going up\u2014talking about regional fuel taxes. These are the things that hurt low-income New Zealanders and beneficiaries the most. It\u2019s not just in the weakening economy; it\u2019s in health, it\u2019s in education. We\u2019ve heard today about blowing-out waiting times for young children\u2014pre-schoolers\u2014who have special education needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EUnder this Government, despite them throwing some money at things, things are getting worse, and with transport the story is no better. The only thing moving slower than the Government\u2019s transport plans are the vehicles that are stuck in the traffic that these things were supposedly going to fix. Wellington is a great example of this. The only thing they have managed to do is, effectively, rename the Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving programme the \u201CLet\u2019s Get Wellington Stalling\u201D programme. It\u2019s already over a year late. Wellingtonians are still waiting to hear what this Government is going to do to make their lives easier getting to and from work, getting their children to and from sport, and living the lives that their families want, and the economy is waiting for some productivity to be unlocked with a decent transport network. All we\u2019re getting are a few reports that the Government is prepared to do half a job\u2014half a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe hear that they will address the problems at the Basin Reserve, that they will put a second tunnel through Mount Victoria, but that they won\u2019t, for at least 20 years, and possibly longer than that, do anything about a second tunnel around the Terrace. So just bear in mind that everyone today from the north and east of this region who is currently stuck on the Wellington motorway trying to get off at one of the few exit points\u2014well, woe betide them if they have to exit at the end of the motorway through the current Terrace tunnel. They are going to be sitting and waiting for a couple of decades for any real relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, during all of that time, these are the people who, through their fuel excise charges, are actually paying for whatever \u201CLet\u2019s Get Wellington Stalling\u201D actually delivers. They\u2019ll pay through their fuel taxes for the Basin upgrade. They\u2019ll pay through their fuel taxes for the Mount Vic tunnel. They\u2019ll pay through their fuel taxes for some form of mass transit. And if there is one small piece of relief and good news here, it is the rumour that at least it won\u2019t be a hugely expensive and hugely loss-making light rail system, but still they\u2019ll pay for a mass transit system that they get no benefit from at all. But they still get half a solution\u2014half a solution\u2014because the traffic from the north and the east cannot possibly benefit from a little mass transit system that runs from the railway station to the airport. They get nothing but they\u2019ll pay for it all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EPart of the reason for this is that the Government stripped $5 billion out of State highway improvements to throw most of it into light rail ideology, and as a result of that, not only are they not going to get the second Terrace tunnel but two other incredibly important Wellington transport projects have been shelved for at least 10 years. The Melling interchange that, just last year, the Minister of Transport visited the site of and said it ticked all the boxes has been put on hold for at least 10 years. The P\u0113tone to Grenada link road, a road that would take more than 20,000 vehicle movements per day off State Highway 1, off the Wellington motorway, and that would free up traffic congestion for more than half the residents of \u014Ch\u0101riu has also been shelved for at least 10 years. The Government hasn\u2019t even committed funding to design either of those projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo the rest of Wellington gets stalled, and projects that would help unlock productivity for the region and unlock the lives that people want to live are put on hold for 10 years. Where are the voices of the Government MPs on this absolute travesty? Absolute silence, or near silence. Nothing to be heard from a Government MP in \u014Ch\u0101riu, and all we get from a Government MP in Hutt South is \u201CGreat news that it\u2019s going to be put off for 10 years.\u201D Wellingtonians deserve better, and it\u2019s the National MPs in Wellington who are delivering it for them: myself, Nicola Willis, and Chris Bishop. We\u2019re advocating for the right things for Wellington. This Government is a disaster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u00228ea74c73b8104709afa5b06a02130435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ea74c73b8104709afa5b06a02130435\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real privilege to be taking a call on this very special day today, and that is because there\u2019s a lot of good stuff happening today, 1 May. My colleague the Hon Carmel Sepuloni already mentioned the winter energy payment, which is starting today\u2014a fantastic support structure that kicks in today\u2014with about a million New Zealanders protected from the cold with 22 weeks of payments to help them to heat their houses through the cold winter months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EAs my colleague the Hon Willie Jackson mentioned today, today\u2019s a very significant day for working people, because today is called May Day. It\u2019s the recognition of a day as International Workers\u2019 Day, celebrated by many countries all over the world. I think it\u2019s also important to mention that it was only three days ago that we actually had the International Workers\u2019 Memorial Day. That\u2019s a day when we remember those killed or injured on the job and also the families that have to deal with the aftermath of those tragedies. We remember the people that went to work simply to earn a living and never returned from work. It\u2019s because poor working conditions kill and injure people, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that we do everything possible to protect workers from work-related injury and illnesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EIt is a fact that unions play a vital role in this. Oh, I see some people sparking up when I mentioned the \u201CU\u201D word. I recently put a post out with regards to this, and it got a bit of attention. The post actually read, \u201CThere are many reasons to support unions and one of them is the clear international evidence that unionised workforces are safer. When [Opposition] MPs [say] they like a world \u2018without unions\u2019, they\u2019re [basically] saying they don\u2019t believe in [health and safety] for working people.\u201D Now, it was in fact WorkSafe, during their annual review, who told us at select committee that international research shows that unionised workplaces are safer, but, despite that evidence from all over the world put in front of the Education and Workforce Committee members, Oppositions MPs are choosing to remain in denial, and that shows how out of touch they actually are with regard to working people and the situations they find themselves in on the shop floor. It shows the dislike of not only unions but actually of working people, and my colleague the Hon Willie Jackson touched on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s evident, from nine years of undermining and eroding employment legislation, undermining bargaining power, increasing insecure work practices for people that are trying to get ahead, that the Opposition parties showed so clearly that they just don\u2019t like our working people. There were many changes made during consecutive National Governments, and they actually exacerbated already existing inequality in New Zealand. Actually, it\u2019s a shameful, shameful statistic that New Zealand is in the bottom third of the OECD for income inequality, and behind that statistic\u2014because you can say \u201CIt\u2019s just a statistic.\u201D\u2014are many hard-working people in New Zealand who are just trying to get ahead and provide for their families, trying to make ends meet and they just can\u2019t. And that is something that this Government is clearly addressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo, today, 1 May, International Workers\u2019 Day, we are celebrating the contributions of those working New Zealanders. We are letting them know that they actually have a Government that cares, a Government that is committed to making changes for the better. One of the things that we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve lifted the minimum wage to $17.70 and are very clearly on our way to $20 by 2021. This is boosting the incomes of more than 200,000 workers. We\u2019ve already lifted the incomes of 350,000 families with the Families Package. We increased parental leave from 18 to 22 weeks, up to 26 weeks by 2020. We are supporting victims of domestic violence with 10 days of paid leave per year, something that the previous Government voted against, and we are also progressing with our pay equity legislation. Next week, on Monday, the majority of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill changes will come into force, and that will also make huge improvements\u2014legislation shepherded through by Minister Iain Lees-Galloway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EUnions together with working people fought and achieved a lot of the working conditions for our people in New Zealand: the minimum wage, the eight-hour working day, paid holiday, sick leave, maternity leave\u2014you name it. The Opposition would like us to forget about that, but we don\u2019t. It pays to be with a union, especially because those on a collective agreement have much more chance of getting a pay rise. This Government has a lot of things to do, but we\u2019re getting on with the job and improving things for working people in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u002255e327b4b59c49e1994d77c609a1de97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255e327b4b59c49e1994d77c609a1de97\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E General debates are about bringing things to this House that matter and that are important to your electorate and are important to New Zealand. I\u2019m going to use my short time to highlight a really significant issue in my electorate and in my city of Hastings in this year of supposed delivery from this Government. That is around housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn 2016, the Hon Phil Twyford, as a member of the Opposition, said he wanted a state of emergency declared around housing in New Zealand. On 23 May, in an answer to question No. 6 in 2018\u2014almost one year ago\u2014he was critical that the waiting list for State houses in Hastings had gone up by 86 percent. On 1 May this year\u2014this day, nearly half-way through the Government\u2019s year of non-delivery\u2014we have one hectare of vacant land in Hastings completely serviced and ready to go, and no houses on it. In fact, in the last 12 months, six houses have been built by Housing New Zealand in Hastings\u2014six. One-hundred-and-twenty have been built under a papak\u0101inga housing development, which I supported when I was the previous mayor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn 2019\u2014this year\u2014do you know how many houses Housing New Zealand are going to build in Hastings? Seventeen\u2014seventeen. And next year, they are going to demolish 15 and build 51\u2014a net addition of 36. Yet, at the very same time, in Hawke\u2019s Bay 440 of our children are living in motels, many of them for over one year. There are 615 people on the waiting list, and the Hastings District Council CEO thinks we\u2019re about 1,800 houses short. This is a national and New Zealand disgrace. It is outrageous that in my community 440 children are living in motels for this winter, and for many of them, for over a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI accept\u2014I accept\u2014that the National Government, when it was in power, didn\u2019t get everything right in Hastings. I was the mayor at the time, and I could see what was happening. Houses were taken down and advice was given to the Government that there wasn\u2019t a demand. Well, guess what: the Labour coalition Government is in charge, and in the first 12 months\u2014actually, 18 now\u2014they have built six houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn my view, what has happened in Hastings is a New Zealand disgrace. This Government, so far, in its first 18 months in office, delivering for my people, when they had all the land available, all the services there\u2014for them to deliver just six houses is incompetent. It\u2019s incompetent at a ministerial level, and it\u2019s incompetent at a senior bureaucratic level. I like the people in my electorate that work in the Ministry of Social Development and housing. They\u2019re working hard. But when I see 440 children in Hawke\u2019s Bay living in motels and vacant land, we have got something seriously wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EWhen I listen to oral questions in this House being asked about W\u0101naka, I hold my head in shame. When KiwiBuild can build 211 houses in W\u0101naka, put 11 on the market and sell five, and I have 440 children\u2014children\u2014in Hawke\u2019s Bay living in a motel, I hold my head in shame. It is shameful what\u2019s occurring in Hastings. I am pleased and thank the Prime Minister and other Ministers for coming to Hastings a couple of weeks ago, but can I say to them: I put them on notice. The housing situation in New Zealand, in Hastings, is a New Zealand disgrace. And the performance of this Government so far in this space is nothing less than a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e61a74249f5e41318adeadc3ef4ab7f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e61a74249f5e41318adeadc3ef4ab7f3\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E I am gobsmacked at the gall of the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat; for him to come into this House and to say about incompetence, to say about the disgraceful things happening in Hastings, and for him to talk about a housing crisis, when for nine long years his Government denied there was a housing crisis. That member was the mayor who presided over people who were poisoned by water that wasn\u2019t safe to drink, and he comes into this House, brand new, and starts criticising this Government. Well, at the end of 2017, we were elected to have the privilege of leading this country as the Government\u2014our three parties working together, a shared set of values about where we want to take this country, and an energy and passion that hasn\u2019t been seen in this House for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut we discovered the huge shortfalls that were caused by the neglect of the previous nine long years of a National Government. The health system was underfunded by $2.3 billion over nine years. And we know the consequences of that underfunding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64f5b5738014774a1bea39862f6d005\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c2e9aba83949ce907ddbb3a7621e7c\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON\u003C/span\u003E: There was a shortfall of 70,000 homes. The National Government\u2019s policies were rubbish\u2014the Hon Anne Tolley is exactly correct. The National Government gave our country rubbish, and we are working to fix it. New Zealand had the highest homelessness in the OECD under the National Government, and, at the same time as that, their Government was selling off State houses. The number of teachers in training dropped by 40 percent\u201440 percent\u2014over those nine years; teachers leaving their profession in droves because they were so undervalued by the National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EAnd the National Government froze the police budget\u2014this is the party of law and order\u2014for five years. What does that do to the numbers, the quality, and the morale of our police? They deserve better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOur three parties have achieved a lot in the last 18 months. We\u2019ve lifted the incomes of over 350,000 families by an average of $75 dollars a week\u2014$75 can go a long way when families are struggling against increasing rent and a higher cost of living. Our Best Start payment: we know when babies are born that it\u2019s a big expense on a family. Those parents now get $60 a week for the first 12 months of their baby\u2019s life. That is a huge start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe winter energy payment starts today. For a single person, it\u2019s $20 per week, and for a couple, nearly $32 per week. That will go a long way to giving people the security they need to turn the power on and heat their homes. What more could we want than people to be warm in winter? It\u2019s not a big ask, but that\u2019s what we\u2019ll be able to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EOver 200,000 workers are better off because of the minimum wage, and we have backed our neglected regions. I\u2019ve heard National criticising the Minister who\u2019s responsible for the Provincial Growth Fund, but I have heard such praise in the provinces that at last they are getting noticed and supported so that they can thrive and the workers in that area can live decently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBut I want to conclude by giving a particular note of thanks to our Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern; my friend and colleague the Hon Dr Megan Woods, Minister in charge of Christchurch regeneration; and the Hon Dr David Clark, Minister of Health, for funding the manaaki support in Christchurch and Kaik\u014Dura. Some people might not know what it is, but it means that in every school\u2014219 primary and intermediates\u2014for every year 1 to 8 child, they are now getting direct access to mental health support. That is a huge contribution to the well-being of those children and their families, to the resilience of the communities, and to the betterment of our region. We\u2019ve been through a lot, as this House knows, and we\u2019ve had huge support from Parliament, but that specific support has been long asked for and has been delivered by our Government. So thank you for that. On behalf of the Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura communities, it is making a big difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212c78fe6bc7246a8985b29eeee86a016\u0022\u003EGore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226943d0393834fd68e65918d69f8ce1d\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022580248af7e954000a091facb33278e05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022580248af7e954000a091facb33278e05\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00225a2c6a2fc54b4d4996e2afe44264b075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a2c6a2fc54b4d4996e2afe44264b075\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222cd003d884c64ba99bdde5c8bf1afd90\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00223edac9a1452a4531aab4102945886fbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223edac9a1452a4531aab4102945886fbd\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would resist and completely agree with our decision and support our decision to not condense this very important bill into one part. It is a local bill. It has come to this House on behalf of the farmers and the shareholders and landowners in the Gore District Council area who wish to assume ownership of the Otama Rural Water Supply, that they themselves have had stewardship over\u2014and an emotional attachment to, you could very strongly argue\u2014for a number of years. The very fact that there is a local bill in this House, on behalf of the community of \u014Ctama water scheme users is of the utmost importance to that community, which is why I think it is very important that this House does honour to those folk by giving this bill the attention that it deserves today. I\u2019m a little disappointed in the member in charge of the bill, Mark Patterson, wanting to truncate this process. I do know that Hamish Walker, the MP for Clutha-Southland, who\u2019s a very strong supporter of this bill and sends his kind wishes to the House, has taken a very strong interest in the passage of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo we are on Part 1 of the bill, which is, of course, clauses 1 to 3, I think\u2014\u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D. This part of this bill is pretty critical. It sets out the process which the Gore District Council must follow to authorise a transfer. It cannot be done without a local bill. There is a process therein, which is described in Part 1 of this bill, that is to authorise the transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286c1bc4e9fea46e2a63b46bc180294a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just correct the member that Part 1 is actually the purpose and interpretation. I think the process is in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db8a671709ef4f90803140743dcc6c2e\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. A matter of clarification, then, Madam Chair: yes, I am speaking to the correct bill. I\u2019m on page 2, Part 1, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is\u2014(a) to specify the process that the Gore District Council must follow\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e4177443fa64b438337355c28fcec2e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s the purpose; Part 2 is the actual process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246908dc301324a5ca1ac9848e342b560\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so I am reading from the bill, which specifies the purpose of the Act, which is to\u2014so if you would like me to, I can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a1c712e4bc4b989147531f78d363f1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you arguing with me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b615c68896b142b380d17be63005beff\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all. Actually, I did make a point of order, and I was speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227342db342ccb4c3a8d27638555d0840d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve heard your point of order. That\u2019s fine if you\u2019re reading from the bill, but when you debate it, we are talking the purpose and interpretation, not the actual process. That\u2019s Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223023218de8ce4eeeba7f9a015805f32c\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. So the purpose of this Act, as I was outlining to the committee, is that there is a local bill which has been brought by the community, who have, over a number of years, developed the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme. The scheme was built in the early 1970s, so it\u2019s quite some considerable years old, and it came about very organically, if you like, through a series of meetings of farmers in the community. This is the kind of\u2014I was going to say process, but I\u2019m a bit gun-shy of that word just at the moment\u2014activity that has happened over the years in many parts of rural New Zealand, where a reticulated water supply was identified as being very advantageous to the local community, not least for purposes of stock water, because generally those communities are in rural parts of New Zealand, but also for irrigation purposes on land, and, most importantly, perhaps, to supply good, potable drinking water for the houses of that scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo in the 1970s, there were a series of meetings\u2014because, you know, you\u2019ve got nothing else to do at seven o\u2019clock on a Tuesday evening for months and months and months on end. Those people put a considerable amount of time into those meetings to nut out\u2014I was going to say \u201Cprocess\u201D again, but I\u2019m not going to do that\u2014how it will come to be that they can form a\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022adf78392c28f49cdb4079a1ca1040d4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022adf78392c28f49cdb4079a1ca1040d4a\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is a great honour, actually, to, for the first time, be the member in the chair here for a bill, a local bill which I have had the honour of bringing forward on behalf of the Gore District Council. Of course, my interest in this bill actually goes back quite some way. I was at the public meeting in May of 2017 at the \u014Ctama hall, a packed meeting of about 200 people, with the intention of thrashing out at a local level what the process might be to transfer the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme into the ownership of the local farmers and householders who had built and paid for the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThere had been a historical dispute regarding the ownership of this scheme. The scheme was conceived in the late 1960s. It went into the ground in the early 1970s, over three stages, finishing in 1976. The original scheme was put in by the farmers. It was paid for mostly by the farmers but also from a loan from the now defunct Southland County Council. The farmers then paid that loan off within a year or two, so they contended that they owned the scheme. They\u2019d paid for it, and some of it in actual sweat equity\u2014they were required to put in 90 hours of their own labour. So they contended that they owned it. The Gore District Council contended, on the other hand, that they owned it and they had inherited it in the Local Government Act 1974 redistribution of 1989. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo it had been a long-running dispute, but it came to a head when the farmers wanted to explore other providers of maintenance services from the private sector and maybe not continue on with the Gore District Council providing those services, as had been done to that date. So that\u2019s where it came to a head. There was no agreement, but the council, in their wisdom, decided to put it up for a referendum and trust the people to make the decision, and, of course, these people are the people with the most skin in the game. Not only had they paid for it initially but they are the consumers of the water, and of the potable water as well. I note there are 253 connections, mainly household connections, and, of course, there is stock water on farms covering 73,000 hectares and there are two schools and a marae. So no one was more incentivised than those people in that hall, in their combined wisdom, to understand who would be best to run that scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe farmers had been concerned about the cost escalating in running it, so they took matters into their own hands. There was a referendum held, and there was a strong endorsement from 75 percent of the respondents to, essentially, bring the water under the ownership of a new entity, Otama Rural Water Ltd. To do that, we needed to override section 131(2) of the Local Government Act 2002, because this scheme had a threshold of over 200 suppliers, which meant the council was unable to transfer that ownership without an Act of Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo whilst this legislation may not be described by the Prime Minister as this generation\u2019s nuclear-free moment, it is actually, at a local level, really important to these people. It means a lot to them. They have invested a lot of not only their money but their own time and they\u2019ve taken a great deal of pride, and in over 40 years they have shown a huge degree of competence in running this scheme. They have also demonstrated, as we will see, a willingness to comply with whatever regulations they have needed to. They have already put chlorination in to make sure that their drinking water is compliant with any current regulations, and they have indicated\u2014as we will see in Supplementary Order Paper 206 later on\u2014that there is an intent to comply with all pending regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo just in terms of the purpose, I think I\u2019ll leave it there and give some others some time. But I look forward to debating the points shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00225c86ce0ab2754be4b98f62e351e0ffe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c86ce0ab2754be4b98f62e351e0ffe1\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually, it\u2019s a real pleasure to speak on this, the preliminary provisions, but particularly the purpose, taking in mind some of the history that the member in the chair, Mark Patterson, has just given us. I have a question for Mr Patterson. In all that we know and all that we learnt through the process of this bill traversing to this point, particularly the submissions from the good people of \u014Ctama in Gore, would he hold that clause 3(a) really genuinely reflects both the purpose of the bill from the perspective of the scheme users? As Mr Patterson pointed out, it was the scheme users that built this scheme. They literally built it themselves. They certainly paid for all of the assets. They have paid for all of the maintenance from its very inception. They have paid for every physical upgrade and every maintenance and fix activity on the scheme, and yet, clause 3(a) says, \u201Cto specify the process \u2026 must follow to authorise a transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme\u201D, which includes the assets\u2014to authorise a transfer. I would suggest to the member who is promoting this bill, who sponsors this bill, and who is in the chair that, reflecting on what we heard from the scheme users and the people in Gore, far better wording that would accurately portray both the legal purpose of what the bill effects and also the purpose of the bill for the scheme users and people of the district\u2014that, instead, it should read: \u201Cto specify the process that the Gore District Council must follow to return the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme to scheme users through the vehicle of the Otama Rural Water Ltd\u201D, that being the company that will be vested with those assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s exactly what the scheme users, and, indeed, most people around Gore who support this bill, see that its purpose is. For them it is not some dry legalese wording of taking assets which are currently under the legal ownership of the Gore District Council and transferring them to some dry company that meets the conditions of New Zealand law. To them it is an absolute reflection and recognition that assets which they have always held to be theirs are being returned to them through the vehicle of a company because New Zealand law requires that. In fact, they told the committee when we visited Gore to hear the submissions that the only reason the whole question of who owned the scheme and the scheme assets ever arose was because the scheme users were advised that they weren\u2019t in the form of a legal entity that, under New Zealand law, would permit recognition of the ownership of those assets. So it was by de facto rather than by any intent\u2014certainly of the scheme users, and probably also never of the district council either. There was never an intent that those assets should be taken from the people that had paid for them, built them, and maintained them and given to another group of people. It was simply in their minds an understanding and a convenience that, under law, the structure they had at the time could not allow legal ownership of said assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo I ask the member in the chair to reflect on this. This is our opportunity to not just pass law that can enable the scheme to go back legally under the control of its users; it\u2019s an opportunity for a small change in wording to make sure that the law that effects that change actually reflects the purpose of the scheme users\u2014the people that have always paid for this, who always will pay for it. All we need to do\u2014and I\u2019m more than happy to help the member draft a Supplementary Order Paper for this, but I think it is a very simple one. We could simply change the words \u201Cfollow to authorise a transfer\u201D to \u201Cfollow to return the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme to scheme users through the Otama Rural Water Ltd\u201D. That way we\u2014if this bill were to exit both this stage and get a successful third reading, and I believe, based on the previous reading, that all members of the House will support that\u2014can be sure that what we pass into law adequately and comprehensively reflects not just a legal purpose but the purpose of the people for whom the legislation is intended to benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00226d56e8b6db04467a95872a264e64dbd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d56e8b6db04467a95872a264e64dbd0\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure, as a southerner, to speak on this bill and to see it get through to this committee stage. I want to focus on Part 1 of this bill, which outlines the purpose and also lists all of the scheme\u2019s assets that would be transferred. In terms of the purpose, as we know, the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme has had a really strong sense of community ownership, from the beginning. It was developed by local farmers back in the 1970s in response to that need for a reliable stock water source. But what\u2019s happened over time is it has grown and it\u2019s now supplying over 200 households plus schools and a marae. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ELooking at the local governments at the moment, it\u2019s governed by a committee which has got eight appointed users plus an elected councillor. The Gore District Council has assumed the legal responsibility for the scheme and it maintains its day-to-day operations, but the running costs are met by the users. So where we\u2019ve come to at the moment is the fact, as has been mentioned, that there was considerable debate about the ownership of the scheme, because having put in that resource, that time, the local community felt that it was vested in their ownership; however, the council thought it was vested in its ownership. So what this bill does is it makes that very clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBack in 2017, the Gore District Council held a referendum of water users to see if they wanted that ownership transferred to the users, and 75 percent of those users participated in that referendum and around 76 percent were in favour of transferring ownership. So the Gore District Council, as a result, has said that it would support that process for this to happen. But that couldn\u2019t happen immediately because section 130 of the Local Government Act 2002 prevents a council from divesting ownership of a water scheme to any other body if there\u2019s more than 200 users than another local Government organisation, and that\u2019s what the purpose of this bill is. In Part 1 it basically says that it\u2019s to specify the process by which the Gore District Council must follow to authorise the transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply to Otama Rural Water Ltd. So, basically, that\u2019s the purpose as outlined in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EIt also goes on to list all the assets that are currently vested in the council that would be part of this transfer process, and that includes the land on which the scheme\u2019s treatment plants are situated, the Pyramid well and pump station, all the reservoirs, other pump stations, and all of the tanks, mains, valves\u2014all the equipment associated with the water scheme. It also includes a resource consent to draw the water, for the purposes of the scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBut there was one other aspect that was added during the select committee process and that was the water treatment chlorination system itself. As a response to the Havelock North inquiry, they did do an assessment of the water quality of the water scheme, and it revealed that there was a risk for contamination. So, as a result, both council and committee agreed to chlorinate that water supply, which began in May 2018. So that\u2019s been included also in those listed assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo, basically, this bill in Part 1 just lays out very clearly what the purpose of this bill is and those assets that would come under the auspices of this bill. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022da4a00804c1f4e3794a06128b1c9a7de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da4a00804c1f4e3794a06128b1c9a7de\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to participate in the committee stage of this bill, and I would like to acknowledge the sponsor of this bill, Mark Patterson. Seeing him for the first time participating in this bill\u2014it\u2019s good to see you in the chair over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EPart 1 of this bill specifies the purpose. The purpose is to transfer all the assets of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme to Otama Rural Water Ltd. It is important that we should understand why this bill is being debated in Parliament. These assets are very important for that region, and the people who have paid for the assets in the early 1970s have been maintaining this whole scheme and paying for it, and they have done the hard yards to build up this scheme. There have been issues from time to time where their authority was being challenged. That is why this bill is required\u2014to make sure that Otama Rural Water Ltd owns these assets\u2014and the purpose of this bill is very specific on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIn the purpose clause, clause 3, paragraph (b) provides for \u201Ccertain related matters if the scheme is transferred to the Company.\u201D That means that it is certain that all the assets are owned by this company. This also specifies in the interpretation clause, clause 4, what the assets are, and these assets include the wells, the pump station associated with the scheme, break tanks, gravity mains associated with the scheme, valves, water meters, and electronic controls, and the last item which I would like to also specify is the water treatment chlorination system, which is very important in today\u2019s atmosphere, as we have seen in Havelock North, where the water quality became a big concern for the population over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis scheme provides water to households in the area. It\u2019s not only provided to the households but to the marae also and to the school also. We want to make sure\u2014the Governance and Administration Committee decided\u2014that this provision should be added so that the water can be purified and chlorinated so that it is safe for the people to consume. So the purpose of the bill is very specific, and I commend this to the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u00229e70c9aac5364097bfd4b2521c973f10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e70c9aac5364097bfd4b2521c973f10\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make a brief contribution here on Part 1. I\u2019m sort of a bit disappointed that we are having to do a very narrow, part by part debate in this committee stage. Up till now, the bill has had very broad support across the House, and there\u2019s no real reason for us to be able to go to such a narrow debate when there is overwhelming support for this bill. I know that the good folks in \u014Ctama and Gore will be somewhat disappointed that the passage of this bill has been stalled to take into account such a narrow and probably superfluous debate, which we\u2019re doing thus far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EBut, be that as it may, I just wanted to make a contribution on Part 1, and I want to acknowledge Mr Hudson\u2019s argument around specifying the return of the scheme assets and the scheme itself to the good folks represented by the company which will ultimately be the owner of this scheme under this bill. I think there is some merit in that, and perhaps a Supplementary Order Paper could be drafted to that effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThere is ambiguity, though, around the ultimate legal ownership of the assets. I don\u2019t blame the Gore District Council. I believe they\u2019ve been acting in accordance with what they believe to be their responsibilities under the Local Government Act 2002 in terms of the provision of water, which is why they have been conducting the day-to-day operations of the scheme. Likewise, the good people who sit in governance over this scheme are drawn from the users in the dwellings and the farms and are the good people that invested and built the scheme assets. They are, likewise, conducting their roles as good governors. But there is an ambiguity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI note that in the definition of \u201Cscheme\u201D in clause 4 of the bill, it does specify that the scheme is vested in the council. So to that effect, in black and white, whether vesting is ownership, in accordance with the bill itself those assets and the scheme itself are vested in the council, and, therefore, it has to be transferred from the council to, ultimately, the company that\u2019s being established. So I think these are semantic points, but it might be good for clarity; but there is ambiguity, and hence that\u2019s why we are involved with passing this bill through the House. It is to ensure that these assets, which have been built up by the users for their benefit over the past 30 or 40-odd years, actually go back to local ownership. Had there been 23 fewer dwellings involved with this scheme, such a transfer would have been able to happen automatically under the provisions of the Local Government Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo it is only because of some little technicalities, I guess, that we are having to go through this process. But, be that as it may, we have been supportive of this bill throughout. It is specified in the purpose in Part 1, in those preliminary provisions and all of the definitions in clause 4, \u201CInterpretation\u201D. I certainly hope that all of the assets concerned with the scheme are comprehensively covered by the schedules, which are linked to the interpretation section. We wouldn\u2019t want to leave some bits out. But I\u2019m sure all the pipes and all the pumps and everything else that\u2019s involved have been comprehensively covered in that interpretation section. So we support this scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOne of the aspects I just wanted to clarify, and perhaps the member in the chair, Mr Patterson, will be able to elucidate for me: which marae actually is part of the dwellings? Is it \u014C Te Ika Rama or the Hokonui? I know both fall under the Hokonui r\u016Bnanga, but it is \u014C Te Ika Rama which I believe would be the marae in question, as opposed to the one in Gore itself? So thank you, ma\u2019am. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002243c8cec2e8ed4380a187c3ec860d2d0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c8cec2e8ed4380a187c3ec860d2d0c\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Chair. I just would like to respond to a couple of the points raised to date. So in terms of Mr Hudson\u2019s suggestions around a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014and could I just first of all commend Mr Hudson and the Governance and Administration Committee for travelling down to Gore. I should have acknowledged that first off. It was a really great move. It allowed many of the submitters to submit who would not have been able to make it in person. So I commend it for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EJust in terms of clause 3(a), I think it was\u2014that you authorise a transfer as it currently stands versus return\u2014I tend to agree with my colleague Rino Tirikatene over here that we\u2019re actually dealing in semantics there. I see it from the National Party\u2019s point of view: this is a very blue, heavily blue electorate. You do have a local member there, and I know that there is some sensitivity around a New Zealand First member being asked to bring this bill forward. I get that, but I have tried to rise above that a little bit because I know that the members of the community\u2014this is important to them. So I have not tried to politicise that, and I think that what you are doing is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213533c0f71a541f68325419afbfbbb82\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Not me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2dbcf56b63a447a925dfb652ee3c028\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Madam Chair. Mr Hudson, what you are doing is trying to almost out-enthuse me for this bill and to make out that it\u2019s more important to you and the National Party than it is to myself or to New Zealand First or to other coalition party members. We actually have some cross-party buy-in to this. So I will not be pursuing, from my end, a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211130e4056a94ecb8bc8afbef8736a99\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good, because you need to talk to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd7e659f59064a04a22ecea1a83d54ec\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: OK. There is legal precedent here too, which is something else we should have covered off earlier: the South Taranaki District Council (Cold Creek Rural Water Supply) Bill of 2013. So we are on rock-solid legal ground\u2014or the Otama Rural Water Supply committee and the Gore District Council are, in bringing this forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn answer to Rino Tirikatene\u2019s question about which marae: it\u2019s not the Hokonui one; it\u2019s the one on the entrance to Gore, just at the north-eastern side there. So that covers off those points. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225c1e34d7dca644988b1feb77c3f09bdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c1e34d7dca644988b1feb77c3f09bdc\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Every now and then in these committees comes a speaker and a speech with courage, conviction, precision, and a devotion to making better law for every single New Zealander. I want to say, on behalf of the ACT Party, that we heard just such a speech earlier this afternoon from one Brett Hudson. He showed the conviction required to make better laws when he pointed out that clause 3(a)\u2014the specific clause in Part 1\u2014may not properly reflect the intention of those users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI want to warmly encourage the member in charge, Mark Patterson, to reconsider his decision not to draft an amendment to clause 3(a) so that wording can better reflect the intention of the system\u2019s users. I want to give my moral support to Brett Hudson. I want to tell him that I\u2019m right behind you mate, and you should draft that amendment. You should get out there, you should draft it, and you should put it on the table so that the people can vote on the wording of clause 3(a). Look, Brett Hudson, if he doesn\u2019t do it, I don\u2019t know how he\u2019ll live with himself. Know that I\u2019m right behind you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddb902050e734e62bfbdf83da093cec4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddb902050e734e62bfbdf83da093cec4\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll just reflect on what the previous speaker, David Seymour, has just said. I am working on an amendment through a friend of mine right at the moment. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge, actually, Mr Tirikatene and his kind words, and Mr Seymour\u2019s kind words, and just respond. Although I have something new I want to say, I just want to respond to what Mr Patterson said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis is not any form of game playing. It is simply a reflection of what I learnt and took from spending time in Gore and listening to what the people who are scheme users said about what it meant to them, and, to a degree, some long-held anger that they feel that they would be wrongly dispossessed of what they felt was always theirs. So there is no game playing behind this. And if I can, before this part expires, get a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to the Table, I will absolutely do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe reason for a second call was actually about clause 4, the interpretation, and it is another question I have for the member in the chair, under \u201Cscheme assets\u201D. I think it is absolutely important\u2014critical, in fact\u2014that we get this right. In this element of that clause, it lists down what I imagine is an attempt to identify every piece of asset in the scheme as, hopefully, it exists today. I look through that list, and I can\u2019t possibly know if it\u2019s 100 percent accurate or complete, nor would anyone expect me to. But that raises the very question: if this bill should pass its third reading and subsequently become law and we have not included\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255dac75b3594032abb1381daad518bf\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s an option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3403dfde4cd4850ad564d6d46085f57\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s an option\u2014well, all parties are agreeing with it so far\u2014then that interpretation will fundamentally define what the assets of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIf, in passing this, we get that wrong, we could actually cause some real problems to scheme users and, in fact, actually, to the district council. Whether we see it as a transfer of assets or a return of assets, we\u2019re still absolutely shifting the ownership of those assets to a new body\u2014a body that is not part of the district council and is not subject to a levy on the wider ratepayers of the district. If we get the assets wrong, we actually risk a situation where some of the physical infrastructure which is understood and has always been part of the delivery of water to scheme users could inadvertently be left out and therefore not fall under the ownership of that through the new company. If that is the case, then it would remain the responsibility of the Gore District Council to maintain and upgrade whatever that asset component is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt could be something really quite small in the scheme of its size and individual value, but if it is integral to deliver the scheme to one or more of the users, then we could actually inadvertently upset the whole purpose of the bill by actually not transferring what is simply\u2014because, by assets, we\u2019re transferring the responsibility of the delivery of that water through those assets. So we could actually create a problem where they don\u2019t own it all, and where the council remains obligated\u2014through expenditure and rates from local district ratepayers who are otherwise to be absolved of any responsibility for the scheme\u2014to maintain and upgrade one or more elements of it, no matter how small and in some ways seemingly insignificant they may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBeyond that, though, if that turned out to be the case, then we could actually have introduced what is a really serious operational management problem. If one or more assets that are not captured in here are now part of what amounts to a system of delivering water to the scheme users, then, if the responsibility and obligation of some part of it remains on the council, they could actually\u2014again, not necessarily deliberately\u2014through the application of their own management and processes, prevent or place further obligations on the scheme company that they might not choose to do so themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EFor instance, the scheme, through the company, may choose to want to upgrade a part of it. If it transpires, in the process of doing that work, that they discover that some elements of the system in that area have actually not been transferred and, therefore, remain under the control and ownership of the Gore District Council, then their own processes and operational processes will play a part in that and may actually prevent the scheme company from undertaking the work on what it understands to be its assets. That would mean that we had failed. In the real world, in the real use of the scheme and delivery of water to its owners, its users, we would have failed in what we are seeking to do here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EMy view is that we can, again, put a small clause or small words in here to alleviate that risk or to mitigate that risk. We could have, for instance, in a new clause 4(b)(xii), words that said, \u201Cand any other physical components of the current Otama Rural Water Supply scheme not listed above\u201D. We could simply have blanket words that said that we have a scheme that delivers water to the \u014Ctama rural community\u2014the scheme users\u2014and it is wholly separate on its own. It doesn\u2019t rely on elements of the reticulated water or water systems of the Gore District Council; it is its own scheme. Some might call it \u201Cbelts and braces\u201D; I wouldn\u2019t. But it would simply mean that we\u2019d have a small catch-all that would mean that we won\u2019t inadvertently neglect to include some elements of the system that delivers that water to scheme users, such that in the future it might otherwise be discovered, through a slip-up, through a small error, or through the missing of a component or components, that we had failed to actually achieve the true and full purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI\u2019d ask the Minister\u2014well, one day maybe, but I\u2019ll ask the member in the chair to reflect on that, again, in good faith. I\u2019m not seeking to slow the passage of the bill here. I\u2019m not seeking to make it unwieldy or in any way compromise any party who has an interest and support in this bill. I am simply offering a small suggestion that, if we were to take it up, could ensure that we don\u2019t inadvertently undermine the purpose of this legislation with our intent, but, also, obviously, from the perspective of the scheme users. I would ask Mr Patterson to reflect on that and perhaps agree to it. We could, very rapidly, put an SOP in to do this\u2014working together, across the Chamber, as, in fact, the support for this bill has shown to be. So, Mr Patterson, please reflect on that, if you will, and respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00222584aab2f4e8403e83e20b595aa59857\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222584aab2f4e8403e83e20b595aa59857\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Hudson. Just in answer to your substantive point there, I\u2019ve been looking through the list of assets: plant and land\u2014land described in Schedule 1\u2014the Pyramid well, the Pyramid pump station, all reservoirs associated with the scheme, all pump stations associated with the scheme, all break tanks associated with the scheme, all gravity and pressure mains associated with the scheme, etc., etc., down to valves and meters and, of course, the important water permit. So it is hard for me to conceive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI note you are the chairman of the Governance and Administration Committee. I would imagine that the select committee process would have gone through this with some fine-tooth comb as to making sure that they had everything covered; it does look like it\u2019s covered to me. If there is an amendment coming forward in that, there is the prospect that there\u2019s a very small component that may be missing, but it does seem inconceivable to me, looking at what appears to be a very exhaustive list. Although, as you\u2019ve referred, there is not a catch-all for anything that may fall outside of that. So I do concede that small point. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u002222b76032c30e4432942e58f8fb0e99e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222b76032c30e4432942e58f8fb0e99e6\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Unlike the very capable chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, Brett Hudson, I will make a very brief contribution for the Gore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, when we talk about assets, actually, most people talk about the wells, the pipes, and the concrete. Actually, for me, it is a very beautiful piece of land, because when I was in Gore, Brett and I and some other people went to see the scheme. It was very beautiful scenery. I took some pictures, actually, that I sent back to my friends in China, and I said, \u201CThese are New Zealand farms.\u201D, and they were simply astonished at how beautiful the farms were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo the bill itself is largely about the transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme from the Gore District Council to the Otama Rural Water Supply committee. So we have some parties here: one is the Otama Rural Water Supply committee, second is the Gore District Council, and then we have the users. So these are different parties. Now, I would say, when we come to the users, my definition of the user, actually, is very different from the literal definition of a user, because these users are not just paying the fees, the cost of maintenance; they were also the contributors to the construction of the scheme. So, in that sense, from the very beginning, these users did have the sense of ownership, although, in reality, at the moment you can see they do not necessarily own the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo the historical, I would say, weakness\u2014because on the one hand, the Otama Rural Water Supply committee has the right to govern the operation of the scheme; on the other hand, the operation and all the maintenance has been done by the council. So the council looks after all the details, including the field work, including repairmen, and including technical advice\u2014all these things. So you have a committee governing the operation, and you have the council doing the operation, and then you have the users paying for the operation. So this is a very complicated process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EWell, who owns the scheme? Well, while there is no clear definition of ownership here, the council itself, traditionally or historically, has the sense that the council has the legal responsibility for the scheme. In that sense, the council feels that it has ownership over the scheme. On the other hand, the users over these years\u2014a few decades\u2014built a scheme and they paid for the maintenance, and you have the committee formed by the users, although there is a representative from the council. So overall, the committee has been run by the representatives of the users. This is, basically, a reasonably complicated situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe bill itself will try to resolve this kind of complexity by authorising or by requiring the council to transfer the ownership to the Otama Rural Water Supply committee. That is a good thing, because when we were in Gore, we listened to the submissions, to the hearings, and then all the users were very, very keen and very, very enthusiastic. They supplied us with good food and very warmly welcomed us. So they really believed that they owned the scheme, and the council itself now believes they can do that, because some other rural water supply schemes in that area have been transferred to the users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo, therefore, this is not necessarily a precedent. This is, simply, a bill\u2014a very useful bill, although it\u2019s a very small bill\u2014to make this happen. I believe this will serve the users, and I believe the users do have the right to own the scheme. The scheme pitches on a very, very beautiful piece of land. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbe6f5caca9c4160a9f335791c3802e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbe6f5caca9c4160a9f335791c3802e4\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and, of course, you\u2019re aware of why I\u2019m rising to speak, but members across the committee may not be. I\u2019ve taken my own advice and have submitted the amendment that will give the effect to clause 3 that I spoke about first on the Gore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill, that will change \u201Cfollow to authorise a transfer\u201D to, instead, \u201Cto return\u201D those assets to the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme users, through the vehicle of the company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo I took your advice, Mr Seymour, and I do thank my staff member Mr John Brinsley-Pirie, who has worked feverishly, in a few seconds, to make sure that that amendment would arrive in this committee in time for it to be tabled and considered. I will just simply reiterate\u2014I\u2019m not going to waste time by taking 4\u00BD minutes on this\u2014to members that this is completely in good faith. I offer this change because I, as a member of the Governance and Administration Committee, travelled to Gore and heard from the scheme users, and I think this better reflects the purpose of this legislation from their perspective. I would ask the member in the chair and members across the committee to support the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce44c35a5e364ea994f2f54ff8090ccd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Hudson, the difficulty I have is that we\u2019re still getting copies for members to have a look at. I\u2019m happy to give the call to Mr Patterson, but he hasn\u2019t actually seen the amendment yet. So you might like to talk a little longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d97c23a156848ffa8187c74116b4130\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I can keep going, Madam Chair. Thank you very much. So, I can now slow down. I thought I was being rushed to be silent, and I certainly wasn\u2019t going to muck around with the Chair at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo an amendment is now coming to the table, and copies are being made for members to peruse. It is a simple change; it is what I suggested in my first speech. It simply reflects a very significant thing for the people of Gore and the Otama scheme users, but a simple thing in terms of this Parliament. The clause currently talks about a process that the council must follow to authorise a transfer of a scheme, which includes assets, to Otama Rural Water Ltd. While legally that is an accurate description, my point that I made, that I learnt from our visit to Gore and from listening to the words of scheme users\u2014many scheme users\u2014was that they felt the assets should always have been theirs. They didn\u2019t ask for the entity they used to manage it\u2014which was a pragmatic entity, it was a group of scheme users getting together using elbow grease, using their own knowledge, using their own tools, using their own equipment to first build a supply system, then to maintain it, then to upgrade it, and to have the will to continuously maintain it. They felt they were dispossessed of what were their assets and their system. They felt very strongly about this. They didn\u2019t use the word \u201Ctheft\u201D that I recall, but one could tell by listening to them that that\u2019s exactly how they felt about it\u2014that the legal system had dispossessed them of a system that they had always felt was theirs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo this small change\u2014small change\u2014which reflects an understanding of a return of assets through a company to the people who had first created them and had spent their own time, effort, and money in maintaining and upgrading them for what is now approaching 50 years, gives this Parliament the opportunity, when\u2014and hopefully it will\u2014this bill becomes law, to be absolutely sure that it is written in a way that reflects the purpose of the legislation, not simply from a dry interpretation as members of Parliament or the legal system but, indeed, for what it means to the people who have always, in their view, owned and always run the scheme. I ask the Minister and all members to support this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002241f6986d7c324b278aa784b92fdaff67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241f6986d7c324b278aa784b92fdaff67\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Just in response to the amendment and also the\u2014well, firstly, the list of assets and inserting a catch-all, which was referenced before as something that may clarify the bill. I\u2019m reliably informed, and it\u2019s there for all to see, that clause 4(a) does provide that catch-all when it says that the assets \u201Cmeans the real and personal property of the Council that is held or used (whether solely or partially) for the purposes of the scheme;\u201D, which I think perfectly covers off that catch-all provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn terms of the amendment, it is semantics\u2014it really is. I mean, I was there at that meeting, that heated meeting in a local hall that was bulging at the seams, and they are passionate about this. This does mean a lot to them, but I can tell you now that not one of those people are going to be poring over the minutiae of this bill and looking at whether it says \u201Creturn\u201D or \u201Cauthorise\u201D a transfer. No one will give a flying toss about that. What they are after is an outcome. They\u2019re after this Parliament to deliver and to not get bogged down in the minutiae of small phrases that may or may not reflect the historical legal precedent. I\u2019m told by the officials that \u201Creturn\u201D, indeed, would not actually be appropriate to change ownership or to ensure that property in the scheme is transferred to ownership of the company. So, actually, legally it wouldn\u2019t wash either. With that, I\u2019ll conclude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Brett Hudson to clause 3 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003Ereplace clause 3 with:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E3\tPurpose\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this Act is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E(a)\tTo specify the process that the Gore District Council must follow to return Otama Rural Water Supply Scheme to scheme users through Otama Rural Water Limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d8c96628f814f5382a2e7ecc79a0ca0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000437\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228269fdbedf754d43ab148ec99dabb437\u0022\u003EPart 2  Process for obtaining authorisation to transfer scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220b4e6507055b41269720ce276e287227\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b4e6507055b41269720ce276e287227\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much. I\u2019m referring to the detail of the process now\u2014which, of course, is really the whole point of this bill\u2014and the fact that an ownership transfer needs to occur from the Gore District Council to the Otama Rural Water Supply Scheme. Part 2, clauses 5 through to 9, really just go into the nuts and bolts, and we are confident that the Otama Rural Water Scheme Committee has, indeed, complied with the requirements as set out in this bill. There has been a referendum held and, from memory, didn\u2019t it have something like\u2014the member in charge of the bill might recall\u2014pretty much 100 percent agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a03b3b5bcf74691ad2e9864b023c65b\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: 76.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad63739083984f21b6e944efae570425\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: It was 76, OK, thank you; 76\u2014close enough. It had 76 percent agreement that the transfer of ownership should take place, which I think is a pretty good result\u2014a pretty good ringing endorsement of the Otama community work in this rural water scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo there was a referendum, it was conducted\u2014and also the requirements which are set out in this bill will be followed as well. There needs to be a plan, obviously. We\u2019ve had quite a large discussion about what constitutes the assets which will now form part of the plan, and while it might have seemed a bit of a dry old discussion, in fact it does matter, because the assets of the scheme to be transferred and the liability that goes with it\u2014and it will be considerable liability as time goes on, in terms of renewals and upgrades and so forth\u2014need to be absolutely clear. That was canvassed quite widely by the member in charge and also by Brett Hudson. That will form part of the transfer plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe plan will contain the following, in clause 9: \u201C(a) a plan of the scheme;\u201D\u2014that\u2019ll be by way of a map\u2014\u201C(b) a description of the land or property that is serviced by the scheme\u201D\u2014again, very important, because while there is above-ground infrastructure and in-ground infrastructure, in terms of ownership it needs to be very clear upon the transfer of the ownership just what is council-owned infrastructure, if, indeed, there is any, and what is scheme infrastructure\u2014\u201C(c) [any] further details of any \u2026 scheme assets, including specifying any permits or rights of any kind\u201D\u2014so that would be resource consents, easements, and those sorts of things in respect of the scheme assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EJust while I\u2019m on those resource consents and easements, there is nothing like a dispute over an easement to cause an awful lot of trouble and expense to the person who owns, or claims to own, the easement and the person who owns the land. It is vitally important that this part of the transfer is clear, is transparent, so that there can be no doubt and no dispute, because the granting of an easement conveys a claim over that land by the person to whom an easement has been granted. On the other hand, you have a landowner who feels that they have title to that land, and if the terms of the easement aren\u2019t adhered to, there can arise a great sense of grievance. This is a small community and the likelihood, I would like to think, is very small, but none the less this is one of those instances where a shake of the hand is never going to be enough. The intention of this needs to be very, very clear. So that also is part of the transfer plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EAnd \u201C(e) any rules in the regional plan relating to the scheme.\u201D\u2014again, a very critical component of the scheme, because those rules in the regional plan will transfer with the ownership of the water scheme, as will any responsibilities to do with any future regulation that might come in to do with the management of drinking-water schemes in the future. That is a given, and it\u2019s absolutely inherent in the nature of the legislative framework. So I\u2019ve just picked out very briefly the transfer plan, and I know there are a number of colleagues who will pick out other aspects of Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00223da420423d3d473a8b1ee3d2a9c176aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223da420423d3d473a8b1ee3d2a9c176aa\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and thank you to my colleague the Hon Jacqui Dean. I hope not to disappoint her high hopes for me in this contribution; I certainly hope that I can live up to the excellent standard that she and others have set already in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMay I start by mentioning the work of the member in charge of the bill, Mark Patterson. It\u2019s good to see you, as a fellow member of the class of 2017, albeit across the House, having an opportunity\u2014a day in the sun, so to speak\u2014on this bill of, no doubt, considerable local importance. You\u2019ll be as aware as I am of that classic saying that all politics is local. Well, not all bills are local, not all Acts are local, but you\u2019ve got an opportunity here to do something positive for community and I commend you for taking that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI do have a couple of questions in relation to a couple of the clauses within Part 2 and I\u2019ll outline those as I go through what seemed, to me, the key points about those clauses. They relate to the plans and assessments, so I draw your attention, Mr Patterson, to clause 8, \u201CRequirements for plans and assessments\u201D. I should prefix my comments by saying that I don\u2019t have serious criticism in relation to these; it\u2019s more a matter of seeking a bit of clarification, if you\u2019re able to provide that, so that it will be obvious to anyone examining the debates afterwards exactly what was intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo at clause 8 then, under the heading of \u201CRequirements for plans and assessments\u201D, we see that \u201C(1) The company must, to the council\u2019s satisfaction\u201D do various things that are set out (a), (b), (c), and (d). I\u2019m wondering what it is that the member has in mind by way of the council\u2019s satisfaction being expressed? Would that be something that would need to be provided within a certain period of time? For example, should it be provided in writing as a matter of course? Is it something perhaps that should take a particular form? I don\u2019t think that there is a particular format suggested by way of schedule to the bill, but if I\u2019ve missed something there then I\u2019ll be grateful to hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThen looking at each of those different requirements of the company, as defined, we see first, of course, that a transfer plan must be prepared, that to be compliant with clause 9\u2014I\u2019ll get to that, if I may, within my time a bit later. But also an analysis of the types of contractual arrangements that the company will need to enter into\u2014and I think this is a positive feature of your bill, Mr Patterson and those who have been involved in the relevant local body in putting it together\u2014essentially, to set out the sort of framework that\u2019s going to be needed to enable this transfer that is to take place and to be allowed to take place, which is, of course, the whole point of the legislation in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAt clause 8(c) we see that the likely future in capital and operating costs of the company must be assessed. It doesn\u2019t actually say in so many words that a copy of that is to be provided to the council, but I think we can probably infer from the fact that the council must be satisfied with these things that that would be the case that that would be required. If there\u2019s any comment you can provide on the question of the way that that assessment would be made, that would be useful. Perhaps, at a minimum, you might care to confirm from your position in the chair\u2014excuse me, from that front desk\u2014that workings and the basis for that assessment should be provided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll head now to the following clause 9, \u201CTransfer plan\u201D, and just make a note about a couple of the ways that this is constructed. The first relates to the opening comment, \u201CThe transfer plan must contain the following:\u201D, of course, then it goes on to set out the things that must be within the transfer plan. I wonder, Mr Patterson, if you might consider, if not formally amending by way of Supplementary Order Paper then at least clarifying for the record, that a transfer plan could actually contain other items than this as well? So, actually, what\u2019s been set out is something that we might say is without limitation, or using the phrase \u201Cincluding but not limited to\u201D and so forth. Just to make it very clear that what\u2019s been set out is a minimum standard, rather than something that is prescriptive, in that other things are precluded by that. A \u201Cplan of the scheme\u201D is the first one, at paragraph (a). Paragraph (b), \u201Ca description of the land\u201D, and presumably you have in mind a legal description which would state the deposited plan number and the lot number, typically, rather than a more general description of the land or property. No doubt it\u2019s important to you and those who will be interacting with the bill to ensure that the right parcel of land is being referred to throughout.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022206819f8fa504430b422cc189007aae0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022206819f8fa504430b422cc189007aae0\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u00220959504bd960408592eb917a22c9ea22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220959504bd960408592eb917a22c9ea22\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to take this opportunity to contribute on the second part of this bill. Before I do that, I would like to acknowledge Hamish Walker, the local MP, who participated in all of this process from time to time, coming to the select committee and also going to Gore to listen to the submissions. So he is a hard-working MP who was there as a responsible member of Parliament for Gore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b9b1ad139d4983ade670520f4e56f3\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t they ask him to sponsor it, then? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566399a11eeb4f72888a7cbda114d9f2\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Because he was not given the opportunity to sponsor it. But this member of Parliament, Mark Patterson, who sponsored it, was missing and out of action for the whole process. Today is the first time we have seen him. So let\u2019s come to the point why it was not sponsored. You need to ask your member why he was missing and out of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EBasically, Part 2 gives the opportunity for the council to conduct a referendum. The referendum needs to be done within five years of the passing of this bill and its getting the Royal assent. The council will also contact the medical officer of the district health board. Clause 5(2) provides that the council will make \u201Cpublicly available, in a timely and balanced manner prior to the referendum,\u2014(i) the views of the Medical Officer of Health; and (ii) the transfer plan and the proposed agreement outlining the roles and the responsibilities of the Company and any contractors (including the Council) in relation to the scheme, as prepared by the Company under section 8;\u201D. This is a very important aspect because the council has to make sure that the public is aware of what\u2019s happening with their asset. This asset is very important to the people of Gore because it is the water supply scheme for that area. It is not only for their drinking water but for other purposes also. For the farming community over there, it is a very important asset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EUnder clause 6, \u201CResponsibility for conduct of referendum\u201D, the council will need to prepare a special roll of persons eligible to vote under clause 7, and \u201Cthe provisions of the Local Electoral Act 2001 apply, with any necessary modifications, to the conduct of the referendum under section 5(1)(b).\u201D Clause 7, \u201CEligibility to vote in referendum\u201D, provides that the people who are living in that area who are affected by this scheme are eligible to participate in this referendum. Also, if they are in this distribution area or if they can be in part of the distribution area in the future, they are also eligible to vote and participate in this referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EParagraph (b) of clause 7 says that \u201Ca ratepayer elector under section 24 of the Local Electoral Act 2001 whose property, for the purpose of section 24(1)(a) or (b) of that Act, is a property\u2014(i) serviced by the scheme or capable of being serviced by the scheme:\u201D is also eligible to participate in this referendum. The other clause, clause 7(a), says that if the person is within the scheme distribution area, he is also eligible to participate in this referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThen it goes on, and, in clause 9, it gives a plan as to how the transfer will take place. The first plan of the scheme must contain the following things, which include the plan of the scheme and a description of the land and the property that is serviced by the scheme and that is within the scheme distribution area. That is what I think my colleague Brett Hudson, the chair of Governance and Administration Committee, was trying to say\u2014that we should have a specific requirement on this and that we should have a plan B. I don\u2019t know why the sponsor of this bill did not take up that option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00229abe01e2b2c64d23befd4a8b3e12c8dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229abe01e2b2c64d23befd4a8b3e12c8dc\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just take a call to respond to some of the issues raised here in Part 2. Just in terms of the referendum that has just been referenced, it is totally legitimate. Under the first-past-the-post system, there was a 76 percent rate in favour. The turnout was around 75 percent of those eligible, which we know is somewhere around that 223 entities. There was also a requirement to consult the Southern District Health Board medical officer of health and also local Hokonui R\u016Bnanga. So that was a robust process and met all the requirements under section 7 and section 9 of the Local Electoral Act 2001.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI note that\u2014and it\u2019s relevant to Mr Penk\u2019s point later on\u2014this has to be enacted no later than the date five years after the commencement of this Act. So it is a legitimate vote. We do have time to bring this through within the very generous time frame of this vote. So there are no issues at all with legitimacy of the referendum. I actually commend the Gore council for going down this path rather than the more arduous, tortuous, and expensive legal route. To Mr Penk\u2019s points in terms of the transfer: well, there are some quite stringent requirements placed on the company. They have to, essentially, be able to put a 30-year plan to the council to satisfy the council that they have the plan in place to deliver high-quality water to the people on the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme. In clause 8(1)(c), I think, it demonstrates that this has to be done to the council\u2019s satisfaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn terms of putting in a time line, I do reference back to that referendum in that the five years is actually the default time line. I\u2019m told that the Cold Creek precedent that we\u2019re working off took a year. I note local government elections are coming up this year, and I pity any local councillor that will be seen dragging his feet trying to bring this through, given the feeling in Otama and the eastern Southland area in support of this. So there is, I think, within those clauses 8 and 9, plenty of certainty for what we\u2019re trying to bring forward and getting the outcome that we\u2019re trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ECould I also just reference the medical officer of health, and the capacity to provide safe drinking water. I understand there is a Supplementary Order Paper coming forward that will amplify that a little bit and clarify that a bit, and I think that\u2019s the outcome, ultimately, that we\u2019re working towards. Everyone wants there to be safe, clean drinking water, whether it\u2019s for stock, and, of course, for the potable water for the houses and schools and the marae involved. So the people here are the ultimate arbiters of this because they\u2019re the consumers as well as the owners, so there is every intention and no stone will be left unturned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThey have got a track record, it\u2019s been pointed out, of 45-plus years of delivering just such a service. So all the transfers that we\u2019re talking about are merely technical transfers, in the sense that these people have already put the scheme in; they know every connection and pipeline that there is. So there is absolutely no ambiguity here in their mind; they\u2019re not new to this, coming in \u201CWhat are we going to do here?\u201D They know implicitly. They have shown the governance and the ability to govern the management of this scheme to a very high level for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002237a93bde66794d22bcc463c8373aff9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237a93bde66794d22bcc463c8373aff9b\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on Part 2 of this Gore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill. I particularly want to reflect on why and how it is that this part was structured as it was, because, as we considered the desire of the scheme users to have back what they saw as their assets and their scheme, there were concerns raised\u2014at least, if not with officials, certainly with others other than the submitters in Gore\u2014as to how we could be sure that it was the will of all of the people involved: the scheme users, the people that live within that scheme area, but also that of the other residents\u2014citizens, if you will\u2014of the district. It was with some consideration that we debated whether or not it should be affected through a referendum and the structure of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe fact that we have chosen and reflected in this bill that the provisions of the Local Electoral Act 2001 will apply, but with any necessary modifications to permit under this legislation\u2014it was a reflection that we wanted to ensure that the process, for the rest of New Zealand, would look and be robust and thorough and appropriate, as we would expect in any other local government change. But we also had to debate and reach a position on whether residents who weren\u2019t scheme users, and, indeed, people who might not be scheme users but live in that immediate vicinity, should have the sole right to determine what would happen with those assets, or would the argument be that because legally they were under the ownership of the district council, that every ratepayer within the boundaries of the district should, in fact, have a right to have their say on that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI think, very sensibly, the Governance and Administration Committee determined that it should be people that are currently in the scheme or who live within the scheme\u2019s physical boundaries who should have the right to have that say. But it was something that was given very serious consideration by the committee as we worked through this bill. We were balancing a need to make sure that the process itself around the transfer would stand up to scrutiny\u2014not just from the people affected but, generally, under the principles of law and from other New Zealanders\u2014but that it wasn\u2019t going to allow for someone who had no interest and no potential future interest to determine the future of the scheme and the scheme assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s my view that the bill we have before us now in this process reflects just that. Also, because on top of the administrative process of the referendum, it requires that the company is able to establish and show to the council\u2019s satisfaction that the company is able to deliver water through that supply that will meet water standards as set down by the medical officer of health\u2014and not just standards as may exist today but there will be a continuing obligation on the company to meet those standards in the future as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe question I do have for the Minister in the chair\u2014and it is a real question but perhaps not the most significant of all questions around the bill\u2014is that we\u2019ve put a sunset on this that the referendum must be completed within five years of the commencement of this Act. And, on the one hand, it seems like that should be readily attained, because we know that the scheme users want to get this done very quickly and we have the word, which we would take at face value, of officials from the district councils that they will comply with an earlier referendum which they undertook to determine whether they should comply with the request. But I do wonder whether the member feels that the sunset clause on the eligibility to undertake the referendum is appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s probably a small risk, but aren\u2019t there risks that once the bill is passed\u2014by the time the referendum is able to come about, it will be after a local body election\u2014the Gore District Council make-up may have changed? Is there a risk to scheme users that, come November/December of this year, after these local body elections, they might find themselves with a council make-up that is not of the same mind as the Gore District Council has been to this point? So it is theoretically possible at least that they could find themselves in an environment which is obstructive to the purpose of the bill and is obstructive to their desire to move this through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d simply ask the Minister in the chair\u2014and he\u2019s obviously just been consulting with officials\u2014despite us accepting the recommendation at the time for this five-year horizon, whether, on reflection, it might be more appropriate that some other horizon, if indeed any horizon at all, is permitted. There is a risk\u2014I accept it\u2019s not huge, but it\u2019s a risk at the moment that\u2019s out of our control because it could arise from the democratic process and election of councillors. So I\u2019d love to hear the Minister\u2019s view on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227c9d27dd0ec04d77a0caeb515444b99b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c9d27dd0ec04d77a0caeb515444b99b\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2513443d8504251a7ba6a735878e893\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2513443d8504251a7ba6a735878e893\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I see some familiar faces here. I think they are looking forward to Nuk\u2019s valedictory speech and not really listening to my speech, but nevertheless\u2014nevertheless\u2014since you are here, I think I should give you some background to this bill so that you have a better understanding about what we are talking about. This bill, a local bill, is a very small bill trying to authorise the transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme from the Gore District Council to the Otama Rural Water Supply committee. So that is the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, this is Part 2, which is about the process for obtaining authorisation to transfer the scheme. While in Part 1 we talked about the purpose and we talked about the assets. In this part we\u2019re talking about the details\u2014how to make sure that we can manage the transfer from the council to the committee. The sponsor of the bill, Mark Patterson, said that it\u2019s a very, very robust process. I agree. Indeed, if you look at this particular section, you\u2019ll find that it will go through a few processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EFirstly, the council need to make some documents publicly available, particularly the plans\u2014all sorts of plans, particularly some agreements. So we\u2019ll see here these kinds of documents so that people will have time to read and to digest and to decide whether they will support it or not. So there will be a referendum. Now, these plans, or agreements, right? Firstly, you have the plan. You have to do an analysis of the types of contractual agreements that the company will need to enter into with the council and other parties to obtain goods and services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo this, basically, makes sure that, after transfer, the company\u2014or, basically, the committee\u2014will be able to have this kind of ability to maintain the scheme. You need to have this kind of agreement to make sure you have the ability to obtain the goods and services, and then you have to assess the likely capital and also the cost, because when you have someone to work for you, you need to have the money, and this transfer will make sure that the committee will be able to raise the funds to make sure that they have the money for 30 years to hire people, basically, to do the maintenance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThirdly, of course, this part will require the company to have this kind of ability to maintain and operate the scheme satisfactorily for a period of 30 years. So this is, basically, a very detailed process. In the meantime, we need to remember who will be able to vote in the referendum. This part, again, very, very clearly defines who should be able to vote, and only those users will be able to vote. Those who live in the area\u2014those who are using the water from the scheme\u2014will be able to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EWhen I was reading this particular section, there was one part where I was wondering whether people can really vote through the post, because people may not be able to go to Gore to vote in person. I was wondering whether it is possible for them to post their vote either in support or against. This part does not seem to clarify this. Perhaps, if we look at the Local Electoral Act, that may be very clear. But, on the other hand, I will say that this part is a very detailed process analysis, and it will make sure that transfer of the Otama Rural Water Supply scheme is to be successful, to be very smooth from the council to the committee, and therefore I do thank them, the sponsor of this particular bill, for their contribution, and I do believe it is indeed a robust process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00225a86f92e57354d0d93ecdf5325b6891c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a86f92e57354d0d93ecdf5325b6891c\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just to respond to a couple of the points, and it will be enlightening as well. Mr Hudson, I think I\u2019ll just reiterate the points I made before around those time lines and the five years. Yes, it does seem quite a long period, and you\u2019re aware of the local feeling there. The precedent we have from Cold Creek is that it took a year. There is quite a lot to get through. There\u2019s a lot of boxes to tick here and a lot of processes\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b115f9b4e3724eecaf660584d58f76f6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry to interrupt the member, but would members who are entering the Chamber please pay some respect. We do have someone speaking to this bill. Find your seats, and we\u2019ll carry on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a647087421456387f4f927d5fc3f80\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s good to see the wave of enthusiasm coming in for the Otama Rural Water Supply bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo there is a lot of local pressure. As I say, it\u2019s local body politics. There are elections this year, so heaven forbid any local councillor who is looking to hold this up. But there is a bit to get through, so it is prudent to give it some time, and, of course, we have some regulations coming up that will more than likely shift the goalposts in terms of where that compliance needs to land. So I think that while the five years does seem quite generous, it is prudent, and I don\u2019t think we need to adjust that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn terms of the points Mr Young made, the scheme itself, in terms of being well resourced to meet its 30-year plan, is very, very well resourced. This has been an incredibly well-resourced scheme. They\u2019ve prudently put their money aside, as we do in the South. It has been very well governed. It does have considerable means and, as I referenced earlier, they have replaced the whole mainline pipeline to cover 73,000 hectares in the last 15 years. They are well up to date with their maintenance. So there is plenty of money there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn terms of the process around the election and whether you get into postal voting or how that is conducted, that, of course, will be dealt with in accordance with the Local Electoral Act 2001. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 206 in the name of Marama Davidson to clause 8 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022df69aa5c2d9e40d98a7952367159fc55\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000487\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4695803baea4ba1a82df83c1c45b8b9\u0022\u003EPart 3  Matters relating to transfer of scheme\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00222572be03bf284788b1664b42001ae57b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222572be03bf284788b1664b42001ae57b\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will be brief. Although this is a very important local bill, and particularly important to the farming community of \u014Ctama and Gore, there are other more pressing matters to follow, so I will try to at least give a good account of the interest and hard work of the farming community of \u014Ctama as they have developed this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPart 3 applies if the water scheme is transferred to the water company. So Part 3 is redundant if this doesn\u2019t go ahead, but if it does, then there are a number of things contained in Part 3, which, really, puts in place notification to the regional council that this transfer has\u2014of course they know. But it\u2019s to give a formal notification to the regional council that the transfer has taken place. It provides for all contracts being in place, and those might be maintenance and renewal contracts. There\u2019ll be issues around legal contracts and there will be issues around renewal of consents, and all of those things will continue upon the transfer of this water scheme under Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThere are some other legal matters. This is happening as an exception to the Local Government Act, and that, of course, has to be noted again in Part 3. It also covers off taxation and the duties which will arise for the new owners of the water scheme, and, finally, it covers off the transfer of land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI have talked about the easements. That is contained in Part 2, so maybe I\u2019m slightly out of order here. But all of these matters should and must be contained in the bill, and in this instance they are contained in Part 3. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00228967556631ed4a108e97ac754d521844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228967556631ed4a108e97ac754d521844\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, in order for T\u016Btehounuku Korako to make his valedictory statement, I will report the bill with progress, and the committee will sit again presently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EProgress reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f3b9634f8544d0f96f67d6bac2a2990\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acb619ff5dbe426ebe720ac3de19682c\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022 data-id=\u0022edcac8dfe4124e98a6da6459df204f13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edcac8dfe4124e98a6da6459df204f13\u0022\u003ENUK KORAKO (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e ng\u0101 t\u014Dwaitaka o t\u014D t\u0101tou matua t\u012Bpuna me k\u0101 mea nui ki te mihi atu ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Matua Nui ki Te Raki, ko Ia te t\u012Bmataka me te whakaotika o k\u0101 mea katoa. N\u014D reira, ka mihi au ki Te Kaih\u014Dmai o k\u0101 mea pai katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa maumahara m\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou kai tua, kua wehe ki te ao wairua; n\u014D reira koutou r\u0101, o ia marae, o ia iwi, o ia waka, haere i ruka i te ara wh\u0101nui a T\u0101ne ki tua o te \u0101rai, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa hokihoki ng\u0101 maumaharatia m\u014D t\u014Dku hoa, e John Patrick Taylor, n\u014D reira e hoa, haere atu r\u0101, haere atu r\u0101 ki te p\u0101 o te whakawairua, e takoto nei, takoto nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te mihi atu ki te mana whenua o Te Waha o Te Ika, Te \u0100tiawa. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e haere mai i k\u0101 waka katoa e tau nei ki Te Whanganui-a-Tara, k\u0101 mihi nui o te wh\u0101nau o Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa, ng\u0101 mihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EHuri noa i Te Whare nei, e mihi atu ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[I greet you all as descendants of our revered ancestor, and it is also important to pay homage to our Heavenly Father who is the alpha and omega of all things. I therefore pay respects to the Giver of all good things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ELet us also remember those who have left us for the spiritual realm; those of you from each marae, from each tribe, from each canoe, who are on the pathway of T\u0101ne, heading for beyond the veil, farewell, farewell, farewell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EMy thoughts go back to my friend, John Patrick Taylor, therefore, my friend, farewell, farewell to the home of the spirits, rest in peace, rest in peace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAt this time, I wish to pay tribute to the mana whenua of the Mouth of the Fish, Te \u0100tiawa, Greetings also to all the canoes who have come to Wellington; I must also acknowledge the relations from the Pacific Islands, greetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EAll around this House, I greet you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EKa p\u016B te r\u016Bh\u0101, ka hao te rakatahi\u2014the old net is set to one side so the new net can go fishing. This famous whakatauk\u012B is what drives me here today. It can have various meanings that can only be determined by the context in which it is used. Today, the whakatauk\u012B means that I am setting aside my member-of-parliamentary net so that I can pick up a new one for the next stage of my working life. I proudly serve the National Party in the Port Hills electorate, and, although retiring from this House, I want to emphasise that I am departing from the National Party caucus and not the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EOurs is a party with deep roots in M\u0101ori political representation, from Timi Kara, Sir James Carroll; Sir M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare; Sir Apirana Ngata; Te Rangi H\u012Broa, Sir Peter Buck; and my uncle Ben Couch. That I have been able to make a modest contribution standing down the queue in their shadow is a matter of great personal satisfaction to me. It has been an extraordinary journey, serving my constituents as well as trying to make a difference for M\u0101ori and the people of New Zealand. I know that the service that has nurtured me as an MP will accompany me to my next \u201CHaea te Awa\u201D journey on my Mahuraki waka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI do aspire to help change the New Zealand building industry to affect social outcomes, with much of it being led by M\u0101ori. I am well pleased with what we have achieved as a party alongside my parliamentary colleagues. The continuation approach we took as a Government on Treaty settlements stands testament to our desire to do what is right for the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI turn now to what has been often a challenge to me in this place: our Treaty of Waitangi relationship as a Treaty partner. I have never wavered in my view that the Treaty of Waitangi is the founding document that establishes New Zealand as the country that it is today. It is a take that is an inherent part of my Tuahiwi, R\u0101paki, Ng\u0101i Tahu heritage. I am clear that arguments between lawyers as to the constitutional foundation of New Zealand are nothing more than a continuing and incessant distraction from what is a very, very straightforward arrangement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThat arrangement was that M\u0101ori would move over on the paepae and partner up with the Crown to establish a unique constitutional partnership that would recognise the Crown as Government of our lands and that Iwi M\u0101ori would continue to manage our own affairs as an independent iwi nation, exercising their tino rakatirataka. That is what the M\u0101ori version of the Treaty guaranteed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThe Treaty reflected the instructions of Lord Normanby to Captain William Hobson, and I pay tribute to the honourable nature of the Crown\u2019s intent in that regard. The subsequent betrayal of that intent by the colonial settler State is what we have all been engaged in repairing in our generation. In that task, this House and the National Party in particular have put ourselves on the right side of our nation\u2019s history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI take considerable personal satisfaction in having had the privilege of chairing the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee in my first term. That has of course exposed me to the magnitude of Treaty breaches that the Crown is responsible for. We have achieved much in righting the wrongs of the past, and I cannot acknowledge enough my former colleague the Hon Christopher Finlayson in that respect. Equally, all the members of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee I have worked with on both sides of the House, I mihi to you and acknowledge you all. Thank you to the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, who gave me so much support in my early days as chair, and I wish my whanaunga Rino Tirikatene well in the current role. This highlights the convention of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee of members parking their political affiliations at the door and working together for what is best for our people. I took great pride in chairing a select committee that shepherded through 16 Treaty settlement bills, along with these unique pieces of legislation: the Te Awa Tupua (Whanganui River Claims Settlement) Bill, the New Plymouth District Council (Waitara Lands) Bill, the Parihaka Reconciliation Bill, and the Te Reo M\u0101ori bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EFinally, on M\u0101ori affairs I was particularly proud of the work we undertook with Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori Bill. Had this bill been passed, National would have been responsible for the greatest unleashing of M\u0101ori economic potential the country has ever seen. While I am disappointed that we could not see this through along with the M\u0101ori Party, I remain committed to work with those who have the courage to take up this fundamental take for M\u0101ori achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI urge the party to continue the reforms when we return to Government, because New Zealand\u2019s future prosperity will depend on unlocking that huge asset of M\u0101ori whenua for its development and utilisation in partnership with M\u0101ori on their own land. Too often, all of us in this House have been distracted by the short-term gain that dog-whistle politics can appear to give us, and I am not here to list the hara of any party in that respect, but I can say that the rise of the M\u0101ori Party was a direct response to those dog-whistle politics, and M\u0101ori remain an electoral giant that, if poked enough, will rise up against those that continue to ignore us or take us for granted. I warn you now what is coming. There needs to be discussions on wai M\u0101ori and water ownership and the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary. I also acknowledge the National Party board president, Peter Goodfellow, and I\u2019ll return back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EBut before talking about the board, I want to turn to our M\u0101ori people, because I believe it is time to switch your political allegiance back to yourself, to your own tino rakatirataka. The political tribalism of saying we only vote for the party is not doing us any favours. You must demand of every politician that walks across your marae \u0101tea that they show you the proof of their commitment to working hard for you before you give them your vote, because talk is cheap, wh\u0101nau. Actions, ringa raup\u0101\u2014the calloused hands\u2014those are what spoke loudly to our conservative t\u012Bpuna, and it is time to demand politicians show you their calloused hands, their ringa raup\u0101, as evidence of what they have achieved for you. I have devoted considerable time and effort into establishing and supporting Kahurangi National, our M\u0101ori partnership r\u014Dp\u016B within the National Party. There are a number of r\u014Dp\u016B around the country, and they are indeed growing rapidly. These r\u014Dp\u016B will ensure that my colleagues\u2019 hands are indeed calloused when they stand in front of M\u0101ori seeking our vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESo it is with pride and love for a party that has done so much for me that I sign off. I\u2019ve been spoilt with the leadership that has guided us through. I was privileged to be led by Sir John Key and Sir Bill English, and our current leadership has shown that it stands firmly and strong during the most trying of circumstances. I mihi to Simon and Paula and wish you both success as our parliamentary leaders, and I thank you for your understanding and supporting my decision to stand down early in this parliamentary term. My thanks, also, to your chief of staff, Jamie Gray: kikoraki te tai, kahuraki te taoka\u2014a blue tide, a treasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ENow we come back to the National Party board and another acknowledgement not only to Peter but also to my regional chair, Roger Bridge. You are a dignified and measured group of people. However, I look forward to seeing a Treaty partner face on the board who is there of merit and also of ability, and I\u2019m pleased to say there are a number of such people already in our party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThere are a group of rakatira that I now want to turn to. Firstly, to Kura Moeahu of Te Atiawa and our tumu whakarae, thank you for guiding me on your kawa and the tautoko you have given me in this Whare M\u012Bere. I want to remember the late Lewis Moeau and Te Rangi McGarvey\u2014moe mai r\u0101 e ng\u0101 rakatira. Your steady hands and trusted guidance to all Prime Ministers, Ministers, and members of Parliament stand as testament to the mana and dignity you displayed to all. Equally, to the former rakatira kaik\u014Drero, kaiwhakahaere m\u014D t\u0101tou, I recognise as well: retired T\u0101 John Clarke, T\u0101 Wira Gardiner, and the present guiding hands of Rauru Kirikiri, Piri Sciascia, and to also acknowledge W\u012Bremu Haunui from the Te Reo M\u0101ori translation services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI turn now to my Kai Tahu whanaunga and mentor T\u0101 T\u012Bpene and Lady Sandra O\u2019Regan. What a humbling privilege to have been the recipient of all your wisdom and guidance while I have been in this place. Whakawhetai e, t\u016B mai, t\u016B mai e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Give thanks, may you always thrive]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWith Parliament, I have been well served by an extraordinary group who are often the forgotten part of the parliamentary process. Our Parliamentary Service staff, in all the various roles you play, you indeed make our life here easier. We have a saying in M\u0101ori: te amorangi ki mua, te h\u0101pai \u014D ki muri\u2014without those who do the unheralded work, we that stand at the front cannot perform our role. I thank you all most sincerely. I want to acknowledge my former executive assistant Rainer Macalister and present staff in Lynda Blair, Ann Toomey, Nick Stevens, and my whanaunga Amos Ward Kamo. You have been my most trusted and reliable kaimahi. Thank you all for the mahi and tautoko that you have given me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EMy mihi nui and acknowledgment to the Port Hills electorate now, that I have given everything for. Past chairs in John Charlton and Robyn Struthers and present chair Robbie Benden and your team\u2014an incredible group of people. The volunteers have stood loyally by my side, actively managed the campaigns, and become part of my family. To my campaign managers in Cathryn Lancaster and Vicky Rule, thank you for the valuable guidance you gave me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESo it is time for me to return home, and it is my home of \u014Ctautahi Christchurch that I want to whakamana. We are not defined by the horror of the mosque attacks. That is not us. The extraordinary outpouring of support for a part of our Muslim community that was attacked was not exceptional; rather, it was normal. That hundreds of thousands of us poured out to display our sorrow and unity with each other is precisely who we are in Christchurch. We are defined by the multitude of individuals that make up our wonderful city, and that is not better illustrated than by my local BP service station on Hoon Hay Road, where my day often started early and I was always greeted by the night shift of Kiwi, Nepalese, Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan, and Mauritian. Thank you to Ben Houston and Buddhi Gimile for your great political insights that you shared with me. Ka noho ai m\u0101tou katoa hei wh\u0101nau kotahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[We are united as if we were one family.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWe sit as one family in Christchurch, irrespective of where our heritage might once have come from. That is who we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ETo my kaum\u0101tua pou whakaako, Aunty Pat Anglem, Aunty Wiki Perwhairangi, and Auntie Aroha Reriti Crofts, my tuahiwi kaum\u0101tua. My Uncle Doug Couch, Aunty Sally Rakena, and Aunty Melissa Couch, my R\u0101paki kaum\u0101tua. Alec Graham, my 98-year-old Young Nat. Rosalie Sterrit, Margaret Draper, and 95-year-old Rose Daiken, and Aunty Topsy Rule, my Redcliffs w\u0101hine toa. These precious kaum\u0101tua have been my compass and support, and many link me back to the memories and values of my t\u012Bpuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EI now turn to my own pieces of pounamu, my immediate family. As always, my rock, my wife, Chris, and our four sons, Maximillian, Michael, Nicholas, and James, who are proud and capable young men. The National Party and being an MP rightly demands its pound of flesh, and that pound is taken as much from a family as it is from the MPs themselves. I\u2019m looking forward to being a more present father and also husband. To the uri of Te Here Tutehounuku and Hine Elizabeth Manihera Korako, my mum and dad, my sisters and their tamariki, my nieces and nephews\u2014you are our future, and we are so very proud of you all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EFinally, lifelong friends are so important in life, and I acknowledge two of my own who I have known for over 40 years. One passed away a few days ago, John Patrick Taylor\u2014JT, or Ox. He was a rock for me, the toughest man I ever knew, both mentally and physically. He fought a debilitating illness for a number of years, and I want to mihi to his wife Diane, daughter Jenna, and son Conor\u2014arohanui. My other best friend, the funniest man I know, has just had a huge cancer operation and is now convalescing at home. John Alexander Graham\u2014kia kaha e hoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EE Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare P\u0101remata, e ng\u0101 mema o Te Whare P\u0101remata: m\u0101 te whakapono, m\u0101 te t\u016Bmanako, m\u0101 te wh\u0101nau me te aroha, ko enei taoka te mea nui o te ao [be assured that the most important things in this world are faith, hope, family and love].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EThank you to all members of Parliament from across the House. To my class of 2014, our year group, and also my National Party caucus, to those retired MPs or former MPs that are here tonight, to those in the gallery that have come to support me, and to those watching on Parliamentary TV, haere r\u0101. Waea mai i t\u0113nei w\u0101hi [goodbye. Phone me here].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, \u0101piti hono t\u0101tai hono r\u0101tou ki t\u014D hunga, ki t\u014D hunga mate ki a r\u0101tou, \u0101piti hono t\u0101tai hono t\u0101tou ki t\u014D hunga ora ki t\u014D hunga ora ki a t\u0101tou\u2014let the dead be the dead and the living be the living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, huri noa i Te Whare nei, \u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, e mihi, e mihi, e mihi ki a koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Therefore, to each of you around this House, thank you, thank you, thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003E[Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EWaiata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003EE mihi atu ki a koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229c236aa-2283-4690-9a84-aa865404bb61\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.04 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002265a426f76e1146d7ab9e0ac6f72d13af\u0022\u003EGore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b1920743ceb4779b4bfb36f3108a418\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000543\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecefd34a88a54970acfa6abc9575d523\u0022\u003EPart 3  Matters relating to transfer of scheme (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3fcf3919ddd40d98548de73c96b8f28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3fcf3919ddd40d98548de73c96b8f28\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b20bd54443741f6a6668cbfae83a398\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s going to ask himself questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b640f57037b44538a99944e9244363a7\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am\u2014well, I would like to just sum up. The member Jacqui Dean did start to make a call on Part 3, so just to look at that and to pre-empt, maybe, her other questions that might be coming through, of course, Part 3 is around the transfer of assets, or, indeed, what\u2019s not affected by the transfer of this scheme. Of course, there is no liability\u2014there is no right to breach or amend contract and no release of guarantors. There must be, as Jacqui Dean pointed out, notification to the Southland Regional Council\u2014which is, of course, the regional council overseeing this area\u2014and the GST will be zero-rated under section 8 of the Goods and Services Tax Act of 1985. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo in case I do not get a chance to summarise again, I\u2019d just like to thank everyone for their participation in this debate. I think that the people of \u014Ctama in eastern Southland will be delighted that the Parliament has put some scrutiny over this bill and has taken the time and effort to make sure that it is fit for purpose within this committee stage. So I\u2019d like to thank all that have participated, particularly those that have brought amendments forward as well, and I acknowledge Marama Davidson of the Green Party for her work on that side of that. Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EPart 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4c7f6d0bbf6446d83e82f8e61fb6b6f\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d0b19a3b0dd4e688f1599f6de37a847\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dec03d506aa94bb48047754b7e04cae8\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229736d70ef2d14aea84a142fafaec6591\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000554\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000555\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000556\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1a3bf896f1c487fb63218fdb676954d\u0022\u003EArbitration Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b030dd7f77994a3eaf9d3a49a6f68130\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6af973273734dd3a70f21fd8b8b7985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6af973273734dd3a70f21fd8b8b7985\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arbitration Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an absolute delight, and, I\u2019ve got to say, with a certain amount of relief, to be talking on this third reading of the Arbitration Amendment Bill. It has certainly been a long road to get to this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBefore starting on the bill, I want to first acknowledge certain people. This bill was originally lodged in the name of Paul Foster-Bell, but I took it over when he left Parliament in 2017, very unfortunately. Since then, I\u2019ve become what feels like a semi-permanent member of the Justice Committee as we\u2019ve thrashed out various elements of the bill. Part of this involved appointing the Hon Paul Heath QC as our specialist adviser, given the technical nature of the bill. I thank him for his assistance, and also the Hon Andrew Little for allowing the committee to appoint such an esteemed expert as the adviser to the committee. I am also grateful to the various contributions from a range of submitters, but particularly Sir David Williams QC, John Walton, and Jeremy Johnson of Wynn Williams and Co., as well as Deborah Hart of the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand. I\u2019m very pleased to see Deborah Hart in the gallery. I also want to acknowledge Paul Foster-Bell, present here in the House today for this third reading. I also just want to acknowledge the support and expertise of the Hon Chris Finlayson QC. Hopefully, he might soon be called \u201CYour Honour\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo why all this effort? Simply, arbitration is a very cost-effective and timely method of resolving commercial and other disputes. In essence, it reduces the caseload on courts. It is estimated that there are between 300,000 and 500,000 trusts in operation in New Zealand. Many people establishing these trusts, known as settlors, and the beneficiaries of these trusts often wish and specify the use of arbitration to resolve disputes rather than going down the expensive and often very time-consuming path of getting a court hearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOne of the objectives of the bill is to improve the laws relating to the arbitration proceedings. I am grateful the committee was able to agree on some of the changes covered by the bill. In essence, these are: firstly, the issue relating to the late jurisdiction issue or objection relating to amendment to clause 6(1). It provides for a new article 16(4) in Schedule 1 to deal with the issue of parties to arbitration deliberately using the provision to wait until the end of the arbitration proceedings and, if they\u2019re unhappy with the outcome, then claim that the arbitration tribunal did not have the jurisdiction to rule in the proceedings. This cuts across the principle of fairness. Amending clause 6(1) makes it consistent with the provisions in article 16(3) of Schedule 1 of the principal Act. The amendment clause specifies that a party must pursue a request on the tribunal\u2019s jurisdiction in a timely manner; otherwise, the right is lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second issue that the committee dealt with was deletion of clause 6(2) from the bill, and that related to the application to set aside recourse against an award. The committee agreed with the provisions in clause 6(2), which would amend article 34(2)(a)(iv) of Schedule 1. The original draft of the bill incorrectly used the word \u201CSchedule\u201D rather than \u201CAct\u201D, which is addressed in the bill. Our current Arbitration Act has borrowed heavily on model law signed by 154 countries, but the clause relating to the amendment was structured differently by inserting it in as a Schedule, and the drafting inadvertently limited its application and created confusion. Currently, awards are protected from challenge when a tribunal changes its procedures to avoid violating a mandatory provision in Schedule 1. However, if a tribunal changes its procedures to avoid violating a mandatory provision under other elements in the Act, then the award is not protected. This amendment addresses this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third key issue is referred to colloquially as the quick-draw procedure, and it revolves around the issue of the appointment process for arbiters. The committee received strong representations from submitters that clause 14(2) of Schedule 2 of the principal Act should be repealed. This relates to the appointment process for determining the arbiter. Currently, if only one party in a dispute acts quickly enough, they can end up appointing the arbiter they choose, rather than going through the jointly-agreed process for appointing the arbiter. This clause is known as the quick-draw procedure and is unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis ability is fundamentally unfair and brings New Zealand into disrepute by potentially allowing one party to pre-empt the appointment process. A fundamental part of arbitration is the ability for parties to agree on an arbiter or to have one independently appointed, and provision exists under the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand (AMINZ). However, the committee considered that the repeal provision may be outside the scope of the bill\u2019s initial intent and, consequently, we asked the Business Committee to extend the powers of the committee of the whole House to consider this issue. Again, I am grateful that the House supported my Supplementary Order Paper to delete clause 6(5) and amend Schedule 2 accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhilst the changes made above are important and helpful, they still put New Zealand at a significant disadvantage when it comes to trying to attract international arbitration disputes to New Zealand. International arbitration involves the resolution of cross-border disputes, and is one of these areas that have developed significantly during recent decades. Cross-country border disputes not only relate to the area of international commercial arbitration but also regional conflicts. This opportunity is increasingly occurring as the world turns towards Asia, and it is important, given the number of cross-border financial transactions and international treaties containing arbitrational clauses that have grown over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe core issue for New Zealand is that if it is to become an important centre for resolving these types of complex disputes, there\u2019s a risk that arbitration proceedings are referred to our New Zealand courts and, therefore, under current New Zealand law, they would operate under the rebuttable presumption of open justice\u2014that is, all evidence is heard in open court hearings. Unfortunately for these offshore international disputes, privacy is regarded as one of the key issues of why people choose to go down the arbitration processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOther jurisdictions in the trans-Pacific region\u2014and, most notably, Singapore and Hong Kong\u2014have enacted legislation and developed arbitration law that has as a major feature provisions for the protection of arbitration in court hearings related to international arbitration proceedings. Just recently, two-thirds of legal practitioners and in-house counsel in Asia who were involved in cross-border transactions chose Singapore as their preferred venue for dispute resolution. Our New Zealand arbiters are among the foremost practitioners in the world, and it\u2019s only logical that these members of the AMINZ would wish to ensure New Zealand is regarded as an attractive destination for conducting these international commercial arbitrations. Without making changes, we will remain uncompetitive as a chosen destination, and this represents a real commercial loss of opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe tried to develop a proposal that didn\u2019t overturn the presumption of open justice but may have given judges more discretion\u2014as they currently do\u2014to decide whether or not, and in the right circumstances, to allow such arbitration proceedings to be held in private, but, unfortunately, we were unable to persuade the committee. However, I am still very grateful for the progress that we have made as a committee. There are not many members\u2019 bills that receive cross-party support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI want to pay special tribute to the members of the Justice Committee, who continued to keep an open mind to my arguments, and I also particularly wish to acknowledge the chair, Mr Raymond Huo, for his role in trying to achieve a better legal outcome for those in the future who may wish to avail themselves of the use of arbitration. I realise the rarity of this opportunity and I\u2019m most grateful, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u00227f93e1349e7045d890084d06e2443f94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f93e1349e7045d890084d06e2443f94\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the member Andrew Bayly, who has just resumed his seat, and also I\u2019d like to acknowledge former National MP Paul Foster-Bell, the bill\u2019s initial sponsor, who is in the debating chamber with us this evening. I want to thank again our officials, our advisers, the Parliamentary Counsel Office, and our independent adviser, the retired High Court judge Justice Paul Heath QC. I acknowledge members of the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand and renowned arbiters such as Sir David Williams QC and Mr John Walton. I want to thank the Minister of Justice, Andrew Little, for his support, understanding, and, should I add, patience and tolerance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFormer National MP the Hon Christopher Finlayson QC attended most of the sessions. Mr Finlayson QC brought, obviously, a lot of wisdom and legal expertise to this process. I still remember the phrase he used when the advisers took the committee through the departmental report. The phrase he used, if my memory serves me well, was \u201Chot tub\u201D. The hot tub, or \u201Chot tubbing process\u201D, as I understand it, is a useful tool that challenges experts and gets to the truth more efficiently. Someone has suggested that that particular method originated from the Australian Competition Tribunal practice in the 1970s, and others suggested that it originated from arbitration hearings. So, basically, it involves tandem witness examination where experts collide, holding opposing views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EFollowing that spirit, I reckon, I presented the case to Minister Little, and we decided to release the departmental report earlier to attract further submissions, and also appointed our independent legal adviser, Mr Paul Heath QC. I am confident that the committee has made the right decision, because it was not only honouring the sector but also getting some of the fundamental principles right, because, as Chief Justice the Rt Hon Sian Elias stated in her two letters to the Justice Committee, this bill, although a member\u2019s bill, did touch upon some important issues dealing directly with a court function. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EWhat I want to reiterate is that a subsequent evaluation of those issues and, in particular, the report from the independent adviser, Mr Paul Heath QC, basically confirmed that the officials\u2019 views spelt out in their departmental report are correct. It is very important for me and for us to acknowledge it to that extent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EUnlike other bills, no matter whether they are Government bills or members\u2019 bills, we have deleted most parts and most provisions from this bill. So in that regard, Mr Bayly, if he likes, may regard himself as a successful failure but in a very positive sense, because he has and we have achieved a lot in terms of this legislative process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIndeed, there are some key changes and points I wish to highlight at the bill\u2019s third reading. The first one\u2014as Mr Bayly acknowledged\u2014is obviously clause 1(4) of Schedule 2 of the Arbitration Act 1996. The Justice Committee received strong representations from submitters that the clause should be repealed. That provision gives rise to a problematic aspect called the \u201Cquick-draw\u201D procedure. However, the proposed repeal of this clause is not contained in this bill. So a question of scope arose, and we went all the way to the Business Committee, seeking a new mandate that the Business Committee has duly granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAnother problematic provision was clause 4 of the bill, which proposed a new section 10A. As drafted, the clause would bind all beneficiaries, including unborn children and incapacitated and unascertained beneficiaries. The effect of the clause would be to exclude beneficiaries\u2019 entitlements to refer the conduct of trustees to the court. Needless to say, the court would have always exercised supervisory jurisdiction over such matters. The Chief Justice called it \u201Ca radical exclusion of beneficiaries\u2019 entitlement\u201D and said it \u201Cis not warranted\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThe third issue is concerning the presumption of confidentiality versus the rebuttable presumption. We are of the view that open justice is a fundamental part of the New Zealand justice system, in terms of both the public scrutiny and as a safeguard for the proper administration of justice. The court can always order a private hearing if a party applies and/or where the public interest in a public hearing is outweighed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ELastly, I want to say that I am a strong advocate for New Zealand business and \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D in general. I do agree that international commercial arbitration has grown significantly in the past 30 or so years, and it is vital to promote New Zealand arbitration and promote New Zealand as a business-friendly destination for international commercial arbitration hearings. The Asian Development Bank has embarked on a project to improve international arbitration laws in the South Pacific region. There is no reason why we shouldn\u2019t follow good examples in jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, Singapore, and in terms of Pacific nations such as Fiji, and specifically promote New Zealand as a business-friendly destination for international arbitration hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ESir David Williams QC offered insights into the use of confidentiality provisions overseas, and some reasons why it might now be an appropriate time to promote New Zealand and New Zealand arbitration and promote New Zealand as a seat of international arbitration. Paul Heath QC also, in his report for the committee\u2019s consideration, cited a bifurcated model as a possible model for a confidentiality regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EMy personal view is: let\u2019s not regard the third reading of this bill as the end of this conversation. Rather, we should regard this third reading debate as a beginning of many thought-provoking discussions about good ideas of how to promote New Zealand as a business-friendly destination for international commercial arbitration hearings. So my message to the sector is: let\u2019s work together. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00226879d69bc80f41a99b66f271a8f5c430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226879d69bc80f41a99b66f271a8f5c430\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and make a contribution on the Arbitration Amendment Bill. It\u2019s traditional in the case of members\u2019 bills to start by acknowledging the member himself or herself, but this time I\u2019ll make my acknowledgments chronological, and I\u2019ll start, in fact, Mr Bayly, with Paul Foster-Bell\u2014PFB, \u201CFozzie Bear\u201D\u2014who is the architect of the bill. I understand it\u2019s legitimate to refer to those who are no longer members of the House in that fashion, but perhaps I shouldn\u2019t have, all the same. Moving on now, if I may\u2014and I feel I should\u2014I do want to acknowledge the member whose name the bill is, in fact, now under: Andrew Bayly. Both of those gentlemen, I know, have worked hard to bring us a product that is worthy of our consideration and, indeed, our vote here tonight. I\u2019m pleased to observe that that will be the case across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMr Bayly has acknowledged others who have contributed to that process, including in the arbitration sector, so I won\u2019t belabour that point, but I do note that Raymond Huo and others who were on the Justice Committee no doubt made a positive contribution in helping to shape the bill in the way that\u2019s already been described.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to emphasise in my contribution the interaction of this bill with the justice system, specifically the courts portfolio, which I hold for my party. Of course, the nature of arbitration is that it\u2019s separate to the judicial branch of Government. It\u2019s precisely because it\u2019s separate that it is so important in the context of the court system. I\u2019ll explain, I suppose, by observing, in the first instance, that arbitration is a subset of what\u2019s known as alternative dispute resolution. In other words, it\u2019s a manner of resolving disputes that doesn\u2019t require the standard process, I suppose, as we might view it traditionally, of going off to court and having a judge preside and decide the matter. Instead, of course, what we have is a system that is specifically designed to avoid that. So although it\u2019s outside the area of the strained New Zealand court system, it\u2019s important for the court system precisely because it can relieve some of that strain if done well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill, of course, is to improve the system that already exists, and to do it not only well but better, and it seems to me that it does that in a very admirable fashion. So just to finish off on that line of thought, the backlog that the New Zealand court system has been developing in various different jurisdictions and various different levels over a number of years may be relieved somewhat if the arbitration sector is able to deal with as many disputes as possible. So there\u2019s an issue of timeliness and there\u2019s also an issue of access to justice, such that an arbitration can be dealt with not only more quickly but also in a more cost-effective manner for the parties, and that is a thing to be encouraged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENext, I want to emphasise the importance of the bill to the extent that all arbitration provides legally binding awards. That\u2019s the nature of it. That\u2019s the whole purpose of the exercise, of course: for parties to be able to reach an agreement, albeit one that is mediated. I hesitate to use that word because, of course, mediation is a separate beast, technically. But it\u2019s mediated in a sense of having a third party decide a matter that two parties to a dispute have decided to bring before them. So because the stakes are high, because we are talking about a legally binding award that will arise and derive from the arbitration process, it\u2019s all the more important that we have a system that is very clear. The clarity that is provided, for example, by the amendment of Schedule 1, as has already been described, is therefore a good thing that we should be happy to pursue in this House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222797c4be89e44d27a7fcc4fb9a4999ac\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Look happy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0fd88d197a745d8b1626850f34788aa\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The next point that I will make, with all the enthusiasm I can muster for Fletcher Tabuteau, is in relation to the voluntary nature of arbitration. So this is essentially an exercise that parties willingly enter into. They do so voluntarily because it\u2019s in their best interests. As I\u2019ve already explained, it\u2019s in the best interests of New Zealand\u2019s justice system, separate to that. If we are to encourage members of our society\u2014whether it\u2019s natural persons, or corporate bodies, or whatever form a legal person might take\u2014to engage in this constructive way, then we should do everything possible to make the law better for that purpose. As a small-government conservative, this is something that I think Parliament\u2019s time is well spent engaged in, namely, legislating to allow individuals to be able to carry on their business as best as possible without the intervention of the State\u2014although, noting, of course, that might be the most appropriate course of action in any given case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy next point, essentially, in praise of the bill, is to note that arbitration is, actually, often a first resort option. Often commercial contracts will state within standard terms\u2014and would rarely be varied, in fact\u2014that arbitration would be the first recourse that a party must have if believing that there has been a breach of the terms of the contract. That being so, its significance is heightened: it\u2019s the most likely course of action that parties will take if they feel as though they have been wronged in that contractual way. With the original Act having been passed in 1996, or at least effective in 1996, we\u2019re now 20 years beyond that, so it feels like an appropriate time to consider ways that the Act can be improved, and I think, therefore, that this work in the name of Andrew Bayly is quite timely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just touch on each of the different amendments that have been made. The first is the Schedule 1 amendment at clause 6. We see that the phrase \u201CTo avoid doubt\u201D is used. This is a pretty good indication, I think, of the purpose to clarify the existing law, and that\u2019s a worthwhile thing to do. We read that the parties are, effectively, waiving a right to object later to the ruling of the tribunal. Of course, if the system is to have any meaning at all, it needs to be relied upon as something that the parties can go to and receive a determination and be able to move forward. That, indeed, is the magic of it\u2014that parties can get on with their lives, their commercial or personal lives, as the case may be. So the clarity about the consequence of going to arbitration is important, not least of all because it provides parties an informed basis to make a decision in the first instance that they are happy to submit themselves to arbitration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe so-called quick-draw procedure has already been mentioned by both of the previous contributors to the bill. The ability of one party to pre-empt, essentially, the other in the appointment of the arbitrator is one that is something we need to consider in the context of fairness. In terms of the principles of natural justice, we might call to mind the Latin motto \u201Cnemo judex in causa sua\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265bfbef18acd496bbef081b44d8f2a11\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022893c8f5c6c02428baa00261b92a571d4\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no person should be a judge in his or her own cause. \u201CProfessor\u201D Tabuteau, of course, is well familiar with that. So it\u2019s a bit of a strain, I suppose, if I were to say that a person would be judging their own cause merely by being able to appoint an arbitrator, but it\u2019s the next step removed, I suppose, to have the ability of one person being able to appoint the arbitrator\u2014or the judge, essentially, with a lower case \u201Cj\u201D\u2014of the matter above the ability of the other one. That would also unfairly privilege the person who is quicker on the draw than the other, to the point where the one with greater resources or, perhaps, knowledge or, perhaps, who is motivated to come to the table first\u2014we think that they should not have that unfair advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about the presumption of open justice. That\u2019s already been well covered by colleagues on both sides of the House. So I\u2019ll finish by noting that I think the clarification is helpful where the Arbitration Amendment Bill talks about \u201Cthe composition of the arbitral tribunal\u201D or the procedure in relation to whether that\u2019s \u201Cin accordance with the agreements of the parties\u201D and so on\u2014so just highlighting the consequences of a failure of the parties to come to agreement about whether the Act has been observed or not. So on that, I\u2019ll conclude my contribution, again, by congratulating and thanking those involved in its passage so far and, indeed, into law now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u00222785f8856a854c4f9be5f6bf5f536f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222785f8856a854c4f9be5f6bf5f536f85\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. The Arbitration Amendment Bill appears to enjoy broad support across the House, and, all going as expected, will pass into law this evening. So it is an important and appropriate occasion to acknowledge those who have contributed to its passage so far. This bill is in the name of our parliamentary colleague Andrew Bayly, and so I acknowledge him. But I also note that he\u2019s probably a little bit like the winger who got passed the ball in open space somewhere inside the twenty-two, and we actually know that the hard-charging No. 8 or, perhaps, the prop who really got the ball up the field was Paul Foster-Bell. So Mr Foster-Bell, our former colleague who\u2019s in the House with us tonight on this occasion, we acknowledge you for your work in initiating this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge all the other members of the House who have worked on this piece of legislation: the chair of the Justice Committee, Raymond Huo, who, as I understand it, chaired and oversaw quite a lengthy and quite an involved and quite a complicated process but one that has none the less reached a point of having good consensus between various parties around that select committee table; and Minister Andrew Little, who, as I understand it, has been engaged in the passage of the bill and supportive of the processes that have allowed us to get to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI have to say I\u2019m a person who is a fan of alternative dispute resolutions, and that comes from my time working as a negotiator in the trade union movement. We didn\u2019t particularly make use of arbitration procedures there. We mainly used mediation as a procedure\u2014it\u2019s a procedure commonly utilised through the provisions of the Employment Relations Act (ERA). In fact, I think one of the things that we could potentially consider more in the employment law world is a greater use of arbitration. The provisions of the ERA tend to take disputes from a place of mediation straight into the courts, and arbitration is only rarely used and it could be made more use of there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe value of alternative dispute resolution procedures, as has been covered by a number of speakers, is that we do clear up space in the courts by resolving these matters outside of the courts. The use of these measures is usually quicker, it is usually more cost-effective, and it is usually less rancorous. So, I think, as much as possible\u2014whether it is commercial disputes, employment disputes, and others\u2014there is a very strong amount of value in trying to steer disputes down the channel of alternative dispute resolution procedures to, hopefully, be resolved, and if not, you still then have the option of going through the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill, to that effect, streamlines and improves our arbitration processes, and I just want to talk about a couple of the ways in which it does that, and also touch on one of the areas in which I think there wasn\u2019t so much agreement during the process but I think is important to talk about in this debate. One of the areas that the bill makes improvements on is in the area of late jurisdictional objections. This is where, fairly late in the process, one party who, perhaps, might see proceedings going in a direction that isn\u2019t entirely pleasing to them will raise a jurisdictional\u2014a process\u2014objection to try and derail proceedings at that point. That would appear to be something that is allowed within the current framework but really is against the spirit of what we want to see achieved through arbitration processes and in some ways is an act of bad faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EYou might reflect on the way in which, in this House, if we have a point of order to raise, we are required by the Speaker to raise it at the time, not to hold it as a card late in the piece to disrupt proceedings later on\u2014and it feels to me like this is a little bit the same. You can\u2019t raise a jurisdictional dispute very late in the piece because you want to disrupt play. So I think the way in which this bill withdraws that ability to disrupt proceedings will be helpful and will give parties greater confidence to enter into arbitration proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard, in the debate, about the appointment process for arbitrators. Obviously, one of the most important parts of the process is attempting to agree on an arbitrator who will hear the dispute, and, obviously, what happens if the parties cannot agree in the first instance is that at the moment we have this slightly bizarre situation, which we\u2019ve heard about, and that\u2019s the quick-draw process, where you end up, effectively, having a competition about who can get in first to try and get their way with these things, and that, obviously, is not a particularly good process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe committee\u2019s adviser, Paul Heath QC, said this of the quick-draw procedure: \u201Cit is the most important practical issue from the perspective of the arbitration profession.\u201D\u2014that is, resolving the problems that are created by the quick-draw procedure. We have, through the course of this legislation, been able to settle on another mechanism, which, as I understand it, will involve the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand supporting the appointment of an arbitrator where the parties cannot agree. That seems like a far more satisfactory path forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe other area I just want to cover briefly is the issue of open justice. This is a question which has been raised in a couple of the contributions to date around the initial intention in this bill for there to be a greater capacity for hearings to be heard in secret. That is not something that has been supported by members on this side of the House in the process. The bill\u2019s sponsor, Mr Andrew Bayly, has noted that this could potentially be a lost opportunity. He has pointed to the fact that there are jurisdictions where there is a greater capacity for evidence to be heard in secret, and this may be appealing for some parties, particularly in the area of commercial arbitration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI suspect that he\u2019s correct in that respect\u2014that, potentially, it would be more appealing for parties in those situations\u2014but I guess my take on this is that what is more important than the commercial opportunity that New Zealand might seek out of such a scenario are the core principles that underlie our justice system. One of those core principles is the notion that we have the initial presumption, and a very strong presumption, that our justice system is open\u2014that its proceedings are conducted in the open and that they can be observed by others. I would be very reticent to see us trade away that principle for what would, effectively, be a process of seeking commercial opportunity for our country. I certainly err on the side, if there\u2019s a dispute between those two notions, of supporting our open justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do note that the current presumption of openness is a rebuttable presumption. It is possible, therefore, for counsel to argue for and for judges to determine that in some cases it is appropriate for matters to be heard and kept in secret. So that is there within the justice system, and it is the contention of members on this side of the House that it is best to leave it there, within the judgment of the judge to decide, but to leave the rebuttable presumption of open justice in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EReally, in the greater scheme of this bill, that\u2019s one area in which there has been a difference of opinion, but the overarching message, I think, that we can hear from the contributions in the House tonight is that members across the House are supporting this piece of legislation because it does some very useful things in terms of improving and streamlining our arbitration system, which is a very important part of our alternative dispute resolution measures. For those reasons, I heartily support it in this reading. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00226b81a35c502c4d2ba62b2380d092f158\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b81a35c502c4d2ba62b2380d092f158\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Fletcher Tabuteau. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00222abdda577e4e473d805126a1aea6ea7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222abdda577e4e473d805126a1aea6ea7d\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E The reaction I was hoping for\u2014the reaction I was hoping for. I wanted to start this evening by talking about collegiality, by talking about friendship, and by talking about good people and being able to stand up in this House tonight to support legislation that is not only good but is sponsored by good people\u2014well, at least in half the case. I\u2019m kidding\u2014ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EActually, I want to carry on with the words from the under-secretary Wood. He spoke about a beautiful rugby metaphor, actually, Mr Wood. I\u2019d like to commend the work of someone I do consider a friend and acknowledge in the House tonight, Mr Paul Foster-Bell\u2014a hard-working member of Parliament and a hard-working gentleman in his current position\u2014and thank him for his efforts. I do acknowledge, Mr Foster-Bell, that New Zealand First did come out quite vehemently in Opposition to your legislation at the time, but I\u2019d like to put that in context. As you know\u2014and it was eloquently put to the House by former MP Mr Denis O\u2019Rourke\u2014the initial legislation very much had this presumption or the intention to have the ability for proceedings to be undertaken in private, and so New Zealand First very much took issue with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI suppose I would congratulate the House for it having proceeded to committee. Our people in the justice sector spent a lot of time and a lot of work looking at the bill and making recommendations and actually working through those to come out the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EIt has been spoken many times this evening that New Zealand is a legal system where its foundation and its premise is very much about an open, public legal system. So I echo the words of those who have spoken tonight, yet again, and acknowledge that whilst there might have been some advantageous pecuniary advantage to especially dual commercial entities who were interested in using the arbitration system here in New Zealand, that is not New Zealand. We would not have wanted those proceedings to be undertaken in private.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI do, however, repeat or acknowledge the words of some international business and legal experts who have acknowledged the legal system in New Zealand and those who practise law here. Our system is admired around the world. We are acknowledged for the sanctity of law here, the honesty of our proceedings, and the expertise of those who would practise law in the New Zealand legal system. That is a huge appeal to those from around the world who would seek to use this arbitration system, and so I think, Mr Bayly, that you would take satisfaction that we have reached a point and a compromise as a Parliament and come to this stage where, under the current drafting of this legislation, this House, in concert, can support your efforts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EOn that, I would acknowledge Mr Bayly and his efforts not only in the House in representing this piece of legislation but behind the scenes\u2014his work to engage, to have dialogue, to put people in front of MPs on this side of the House\u2014so that we could appreciate his understanding, his perspective, and, actually, some experts\u2019 perspective on this legislation. I commend Mr Bayly for his efforts and his dogged determination in that. Yes, I simply congratulate him for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI think we have here a system based around professionalism that I hope more of the international market will take advantage of, and that is the intent. Although, to put that in context, we are bringing the arbitration system in line with international standards with this legislation, and so that is a successful outcome of this Parliament\u2019s support. I suppose with those few words of congratulations, of endearment, and of support, I do commend this piece of legislation to the House and congratulate the members opposite. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f314af1d7eff4bf3b4d0e4c4cef25bb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f314af1d7eff4bf3b4d0e4c4cef25bb2\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a third reading call on the Arbitration Amendment Bill. The first thing I want to say is that I\u2019m just incredibly proud of the amount of real-world commercial expertise that rests on this side of the House, including my colleague Andrew Bayly. There\u2019s lots of the law that makes for a strong economy that actually relies on what may seem quite complex and not particularly attractive law, such as arbitration law, but if we\u2019re serious about having a strong economy, having good-quality, detailed, workable law in areas like arbitration is actually part of the economic success story that New Zealand needs to have. I compliment my colleague Andrew Bayly, and also Paul Foster-Bell for his original work on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe issue of arbitration law is actually not just important for arbitration disputes that may occur in New Zealand. Actually, there are lots of commercial contracts that are done around the world in which people have a choice to specify in those contracts where they wish to have those arbitration disputes resolved, and the real strength of New Zealand having world-class arbitration law is that those doing commercial contracts will choose to cite our arbitration procedures as the preferred venue in which those disputes will be resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the detail of this bill is right about the certainty that needs to go with arbitration processes, because if the very principle of arbitration is to fly as a preferred mechanism for resolving disputes to the courts, then we need to have law that has as little opportunity as possible for people to be able to game the system and, through an arbitration decision, to then throw it back into the courts. I don\u2019t want this Parliament to be naive about the scale and the sorts of dollar sums that are involved in these arbitration disputes. Both as a Minister and in the construction industry prior to coming to this Parliament, under our Arbitration Act I have seen contractual disputes for many hundreds of millions of dollars being resolved through this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the problem: if there\u2019s even a sliver of a chance that people might be able to relitigate those arbitration decisions in the courts, the financial incentives are for people to disrupt the process in that way. Yes, what they\u2019ll probably do is then get behind closed doors and cut some sort of a deal, but it actually undermines the credibility of those arbitration processes. What the two specific provisions in this bill do is just close down a couple of significant areas where our existing arbitration law\u2014the 2017 Act\u2014enables those sorts of appeals to be nipped in the bud, and to provide that greater degree of certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m pleased I\u2019ve followed my colleague from New Zealand First, because I have to say I am continuously surprised by the ambidextrous nature of New Zealand First. Well, I have to say, over 30 years, if there\u2019s any political party in this Parliament that\u2019s got the capacity to say, \u201CBlack\u2019s white and white\u2019s black\u201D, it truly is the New Zealand First Party. I know my colleagues will remember an equally important issue, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and the way in which the New Zealand First Party raged that this was the greatest evil that could ever come to our country, but hold on, if you call it the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership, suddenly, it becomes the biggest deal on the go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EActually, the one that\u2019s been amusing me this week, which has got an analogy with this arbitration bill, is\u2014I don\u2019t know if any members opposite have picked up the speeches from the now Foreign Minister on the Belt and Road Initiative from China. I tell you, again, you would see that this was one of those great evils. Now, equally so, if we look back on the record of this arbitration bill, this was something about dirty private dealing that was going to be behind closed doors that the New Zealand First Party\u2014I think it was Mr Denis O\u2019Rourke from the New Zealand First Party\u2014railed against this awful legislation. But isn\u2019t it a beautiful thing, how, when New Zealand First gets in Government, somehow all those things that National was proposing to do that were so awful, actually, suddenly become incredibly palatable for members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI have to say\u2014[Interruption]\u2014well, it\u2019s no wonder I heard someone referring today that New Zealand First has become the \u201Cone percent party\u201D. That doesn\u2019t surprise me. They are a party that struggles with the competence of Government because, actually, in Government you need to do the right thing, and what is being done in this bill is the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271db2a5f60ed487bb448a8cee4560521\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s your leader? Is she busy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9614437e9344b2d9ec25f6440384193\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The last point\u2014actually, Simon Bridges is going strong. Anybody who saw his performance in the House this afternoon would know that he was top of his game. But you really know you\u2019re getting under the skin of the Government on a bill, and pointing out the contradictions of New Zealand First, when they want to distract and move away from the content that, I\u2019m sure, Mr Assistant Speaker, you would want us to be focused on in respect of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to come back to the core principle. Good quality arbitration law is essential for New Zealand\u2019s commercial success. Again, I stress that the horsepower that exists on this side of Parliament understands that every aspect of commercial law\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d240e8aeb83b4cd38f010954ec18d044\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Horse and cart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863100206f854d9fb3f4a36ecc663460\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll match up. Well, I have to say\u2014and I\u2019m happy to match up the skills of colleagues like Chris Penk, the experience of people like Andrew Bayly. We would have 10 times the practical commercial experience of any of the members in New Zealand First. I do refer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254e499f2252e4eeba648c087457a0235\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Penk has been out of law school for about two weeks. You\u2019ve got Duncan Webb over here\u2014he\u2019s written a bloody book on this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733ab8ee7ab24d1f86669f81b5868b95\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I quite liked the comment I had at a business meeting in Nelson last week, and a colleague made the comment that \u201CI think Grant Robertson\u2019s great business experience was running the university tuck shop.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo the reason that you\u2019re getting good, sensible commercial law from this side of the House\u2014actually, it\u2019s what National excels on: providing the sort of laws that will ensure that we have a strong, growing economy. That can only occur if we\u2019ve got businesses that are able to be able to go about their business in confidence, knowing that their compliance costs, the costs of being involved in expensive litigation, are minimised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo again, I say to the House, I commend this bill, commend the specific changes that are being made to the schedules. No, it\u2019s not the most exciting bill, but I say when you know in practice the hundreds of millions of dollars that are involved in arbitration disputes, these are the details of law that we need to get right. It\u2019s about making New Zealand more competitive. It\u2019s about making our economy grow stronger, not by itself but as, I think, Sir John Key expressed so well, every member of the National team is focused on those little changes that, when added together, make for the \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D boat just going that little bit faster. Again, I say to Andrew Bayly, well done. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d80cb125c5ba436181b523fe03a57e9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d80cb125c5ba436181b523fe03a57e9d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s great to go after Dr Nick Smith, and I do hope he stays in Parliament, because we want to keep the unemployment rate down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve only got two things to say about this bill. Firstly, what we didn\u2019t realise when this started\u2014we thought this was a technical bill that Mr Bayly was pressing on with, like that terrier of an MP that he is, but, in fact, what I realise now in retrospect is that it was quite a deep, philosophical discussion about the place of arbitration and its relationship with the courts. What has been resolved after a lot of quite hard thinking and with a lot of expert advice, not only from Paul Heath QC but also from the great minds around the Justice Committee table, and from some great submissions by very experienced arbitrators, and by the advice of the Chief Justice of the time herself, was that the courts must retain their primacy. There is no place for having arbitration as a dominant means of dispute resolution. The principle of open justice must prevail, and the principle of access to the courts in respect of beneficiaries of trusts must prevail, as well. That is an important principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, I\u2019ve got one other thing to say, and that is the absolute importance of having alternatives to the court system, because the court systems absolutely do not work for everyone. Sometimes they don\u2019t work because of the complexity and size of disputes which arbitrations\u2014as Mr Bayly noted\u2014relate to, but also for a whole lot of other disputes which may be smaller and require more simple procedures, and, again, arbitration has a part to play there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s a vote of confidence in this bill\u2014the tidying up that\u2019s being done for arbitrations to have a very, very important place in supplementing our justice system. But they must always play second place to the courts, who must always be able to supervise, in an open way, dispute resolution in New Zealand. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c30cc0a76b7a4cd9804b035551b03824\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c30cc0a76b7a4cd9804b035551b03824\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I rise to speak, with great pleasure, to the Arbitration Amendment Bill, having been the deputy chair of the Justice Committee through some of its gestation through that process. I am delighted, on behalf of Andrew Bayly, who is the sponsoring member of this bill, that as a result of his tenacity, and as a result of the focus of many people on a bill whose time had come, this bill has filled a gap, which needed to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI feel, as well, that we are privileged in this House: we\u2019re not usually in a position where we have the former sponsoring member with us. I would like to acknowledge Paul Foster-Bell, my friend and colleague from the class of 2011 who is with us tonight, who, I suppose, began the bill\u2014the father of the bill. I\u2019m not going to go into the rugby metaphors, because I\u2019m not quite competent to really decide whether Paul Foster-Bell is a hard-charging prop. As Paul said himself, he has never been accused of rugby prowess ever in his life before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222708a3125121464fb54d84d130440a2d\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Soccer! Cricket!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0e0eb8b71d4761aa66ce743ec3a81f\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so tonight is an important occasion on very many levels. There\u2019s a first time for everything, as the Hon Meka Whaitiri is saying, I think. But, you know, this is a bill that is complicated. It has passed through many hands, but it needed to happen. It has had close links with the Trusts Bill, which was another behemoth, another very complicated piece of legislation which needed to occur. But should it involve the Arbitration Amendment Bill, or should it not? So for a number of months, actually, the select committee was deliberating as to where this bill could best be placed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI am grateful for the involvement of the justice Minister, Andrew Little, because he was able to see the usefulness of the bill and also able to understand and acknowledge, as leaders can, that the advice that we were getting from officials was not up to scratch. Without in any way being personal about the individuals concerned, it was very apparent that there was not enough international arbitration experience or even that wider world experience which was required for a bill of this complexity, and, really, with that international knowledge that was needed. So the officials, I think, and advisers took it in good heart. We had the intellectual rigour of our former colleague the Hon Chris Finlayson as well, which was really important, and I think that in the end what occurred was a very robust process. Paul Heath QC, who is a very experienced and retired High Court judge, was somebody who was able to bring an enormous amount of intellectual rigour, which, again, is the phrase I would use. He was somebody who was able to draw together a number of very complicated opportunities and options and distil them into something which is the bill that we are about to pass tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere are other people as well that I feel ought to be acknowledged in this, because there truly have been many parents for this bill. The prominent economist Hilary Croke has commented very favourably on it, and from a perspective of making the New Zealand economy stronger. That is something that can sometimes get lost in the detail of the law, but to be able to pull back and see that\u2014I think it is about a million dollars for each of these cases that come through\u2014this is potentially a very good earning opportunity for New Zealand. But we did need to change our laws, so it was very useful to get not only Hilary Croke\u2019s perspective on this as a prominent economists, but also I\u2019d like to acknowledge Deborah Hart, who is the CEO of the Arbitrators\u2019 and Mediators\u2019 Institute of New Zealand, who is with us in the gallery tonight and has also contributed a large amount of ideas and intelligent, practical advice. So I acknowledge and thank her for her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt was a difficult piece of legislation to get through, as its current sponsor, Andrew Bayly, knows only too well, because there was a lot of tension around what should be in the public domain and what should not, and the confidentiality aspect is extremely important\u2014so the idea that someone would go into a confidential arbitration process and try and settle it away from the courts, away from the expense, but also privately so that commercially sensitive material was not going to be broadcast. If it were, it would be a deterrent, really, to the arbitration process. So it was very helpful indeed that we were able to track that through. When we looked at the conflict resolution\u2014which is something that, you know, a number of successive New Zealand Governments have purported to support but have stopped short because of the sort of complexities I\u2019ve referred to. Cross-border commercial contracts, international treaties containing arbitration clauses\u2014all of these things have grown apace recently\u2014and enhanced technology; these are other matters which really needed to be taken into consideration when we updated and brought this particular bill up to modern fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo the globalisation of world trade and investment, which New Zealand has been not the largest player in but certainly an enthusiastic, smaller player, has resulted in increasingly harmonised arbitration processes worldwide. It is very good that this bill makes us a part of that worldwide trend, and, I think, when we look at the case for the greater use of arbitration, why would we not use it more? Why would we clog up our courts? Why would we not have the clarity of the arbitration laws in line with international standards that we really need if we want to do business in the modern international world? Potentially, as an income earner for the country, hundreds of millions of dollars could be something that would work very well for the New Zealand economy. But we do really have to be careful around ensuring that we do things properly, and, without this bill, we would not be able to give any of those assurances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to reducing the caseload in the courts, it is a very important consideration. Complex cases of a nature that come before the courts and could be resolved through arbitration prior to that are really an important consideration. Our justice system is groaning under the weight of the cases that come before it. The complexity and all the rest of it means that these cases are better decided quietly and privately in arbitration with experts. I think that by using international and regional conflict resolution, and not just in that area of international commercial arbitration but in the broader spectrum as well, we now have a bill that will enable our very talented New Zealand legal minds, and our commercial companies as well, for that matter, to really robustly engage in gaining business for New Zealand, \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, but also for the reputation and the experience of our very good legal minds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo there is very little not to like about this bill. We would have liked it to have been more comprehensive, but this is a place of compromise, and, I think, in the end we arrived in a situation where we were all of agreement that this was the best we could do under the circumstances. But that could not have happened without all of us participating and compromising in some ways, not least the sponsor and the original father of the bill. But I think there is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fda558406134a60aaa8ad2a576b4f4e\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s a father now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97600304025408cb7ffb3125faa3c0c\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a father now! Yes, OK, so Andrew Bayly is wondering if there\u2019s been an update on parentals. No; I meant that in the generic sense with this bill. But I think it is important to acknowledge that some bills take a long time to come through the process of Parliament, and the process of select committee was at very real risk of turning out a bill that would not be fit for purpose and would not be of any use to anybody and would not have satisfied anybody and would have been, pretty much, a waste of all of our time. So by bringing in Paul Health QC, by taking the time to really resolve it in a mature fashion, I think it has been an exemplary bill, because it has shown what\u2019s possible with cooperation and with compromise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo this is a bill whose time has come. I think that internationally it will be fantastic for opportunities for New Zealand. Whether it adds up to a million dollars per case and hundreds of millions of dollars over the years remains to be seen. But the fact is that when this bill passes tonight in this House with the cooperation of all involved, it will position New Zealand in a way that means that we can be internationally competitive and that we can hold our heads high in this area. I think there will be a lot of business coming our way, from what one can gather, through Asia. I have, from my time on the select committee, become much more informed about how the international markets work, and it would appear that with a bill like this going through, there are a lot of opportunities that we could take advantage of as a country, and, for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, for the National Party, for Andrew Bayly, a friend and colleague, and for Paul Foster-Bell, I\u2019m very glad that the bill has got to the stage, and I recommend it and commend it, wholeheartedly, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1c04cb1d1c14a3c9c9c6a01fe8b4e44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1c04cb1d1c14a3c9c9c6a01fe8b4e44\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this is a split call\u2014five minutes. I call Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e266c804d13d42b499ce08e1bc57ff4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e266c804d13d42b499ce08e1bc57ff4a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker, did you say it\u2019s a split call? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022454f7e544e1845d19a6651ca85a4599a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: A split call, yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b75d853bb347b2adf0add577b67917\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh excellent, a split call\u2014all right. Then, members, I will either halve what I was going to say or I\u2019ll speak twice as fast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m delighted to take a call on this third reading of the Arbitration Amendment Bill, and I will start by acknowledging Paul Foster-Bell and the work that you have done. We\u2019ve been friends and colleagues for years, and I think it\u2019s a pleasure that not only is this piece of legislation going through but you\u2019re here as well. If I might also speak personally, I acknowledge Logan Morton, who has passed. I know he was good friends with many of us here\u2014and you, in particular\u2014and I want to acknowledge, in the House, his passing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ETo Andrew Bayly, of course, the member who has shepherded this bill through, thank you for paying attention\u2014that\u2019s good; you can relax now. Look, Andrew, thank you for your work. This is one of those pieces of legislation which is incredibly particular. I think for most members of the House\u2014and there\u2019s relative concord here tonight, and a little bit of humour too, which is welcome\u2014bills like this are relatively rare. What I mean by that is it\u2019s not their size\u2014we have even smaller bills\u2014but this is a very, very particular piece of law and a very particular change. A lot of the legislation we deal with in this House is very, very broad and touches on a number of areas. I would suggest\u2014and it probably is hinted at\u2014that we, obviously, had to bring experts in, and the Parliament and the Justice Committee did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere are probably few in this House who would fully understand the law. I\u2019ll be honest: I am not an expert in arbitration, but I do understand a good opportunity when we see it. So this was an attempt, if you will\u2014certainly, in my thinking\u2014to create an opportunity for New Zealand, and I think we are mostly there and that\u2019s particularly so in the international space. I mean, one of the fundamental reasons for advancing arbitration is, effectively, as I understand it\u2014and I\u2019m sure those who are more expert will correct me later\u2014to keep things, if you will, out of the courts when not necessary. We try to apply that in a whole lot of ways, and particularly now, in the international context, we are seeing a lot more international arbitration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI have the good fortune of chairing the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and the issue of arbitration comes across our committee often and certainly in my discussions with ambassadors, high commissioners, and others\u2014particularly in the commercial sector. So arbitration is a growing area, first and foremost, in demand. There are a number of countries and interconnected global agencies that wish to use the service and, as a consequence, those who are prepared to offer it, and New Zealand\u2019s laws are not as sufficient as they might or could be. So this really is an opportunity for New Zealand. It\u2019s quite important that New Zealand\u2019s laws are well-known and respected, and I think it goes without saying that that is understood in the international context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI know one of the areas of debate for the select committee and, indeed, for this House, was the transparency of arbitration and, in particular, whether or not the details of an arbitration should be made public. I mean, as members will know here, if something goes into the courts, it, by and large, is and does become public. It\u2019s the nature of our system, one that\u2019s\u2014I was going to say, \u201CWestminster\u201D, but that\u2019s more to do with our Parliament. Law that comes out of the English code of law becomes public, and, as you might anticipate, there are a number of pieces of arbitration engagement. If one thinks of the various international agencies, be they commercial or political, they do not wish to have their issues aired in public, and, arguably, if New Zealand is to look at this both from a legal and from a commercial point of view\u2014and I think that latter element\u2019s quite important. There is a commercial quality here. If New Zealand wants to be able to attract, particularly, these people seeking international arbitration in New Zealand, we should be able to make allowances, in a sense\u2014an exception to our usual protocols and principles\u2014to allow this to be, in effect, in secret so that they can solve their situations. I think that\u2019s, again, a fantastic opportunity for New Zealand, if we were able to fully explore that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I think there\u2019ll be further discussions in time, and I think an opportunity that, again, we do need to maximise. Fundamentally\u2014and particularly if it is in the international space\u2014if something is or is not public between two international entities, it doesn\u2019t actually have a material impact on New Zealand. In fact, I\u2019d say that it would have no impact whatsoever, except a commercial and a financial one. Simply put, if we become a well-known area for international arbitration, that\u2019s\u2014I suppose I want to be hesitant in reducing something that\u2019s important and legal to being something simply commercial. But if people are going to come down here, they\u2019re going to have to stay in our hotels and use our taxis and take in the country, drink our very fine wines, and so forth. They are going to actually become part of and contribute to the New Zealand economy and, I would also argue, be able to tap into and understand our legal code. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I think this is a particularly good bill. Again, I just want to thank all those that have been part of this\u2014from Paul Foster-Bell to Andrew Bayly\u2014for their work, and I commend this bill to the House without arbitration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6aeeeaad06941cb8a74ffb97575892a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6aeeeaad06941cb8a74ffb97575892a\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is my pleasure to take a short call on the Arbitration Amendment Bill. While I am not a member of the Justice Committee, I am happy to take a call on this bill, and I want to acknowledge the Justice Committee for thoroughly considering this bill and debating this bill. From what I can see from the notes and previous speeches, it went on for some time. It actually came back to the Business Committee to possibly consider something that was a provision that was out of scope, which was agreed to, and so it\u2019s had quite a long time in this process. So I really want to acknowledge the member Andrew Bayly, who is now carrying the bill in his name, and the Justice Committee for their work on it. I also want to acknowledge the Chief Justice, the independent adviser Paul Heath QC, and the submitters on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe purpose was to improve the framework for arbitration, which is a helpful method of resolving commercial and other disputes. As previously a lawyer and somebody who studied alternative dispute resolution, I too am a fan of encouraging alternative dispute resolution. We are very litigious in New Zealand, and we do love to go to court. The point was made earlier that that can be a lengthy process and quite a costly process, and so this is an alternative to that process which does have some real benefits to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe section I did want to talk about was concerns around open justice and it being a fundamental aspect of the New Zealand justice system. The point that has been made well tonight in terms of, in arbitration, information is kept confidential, but when it is taken up to the courts\u2014the proposal as it was first introduced in the bill was something that Labour wasn\u2019t supportive of, but through the process of the select committee, the right balance has been met, and so I thank the committee for the work that they did on that and the collaboration. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022de35937bf2d14b10839a9a925c236d67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de35937bf2d14b10839a9a925c236d67\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in support of the Arbitration Amendment Bill, and I\u2019m going to make a contribution of equal value to those made by Nick Smith, Chris Penk, and Maggie Barry combined, but much, much shorter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u00229e7aec01841d47ddaf7ee431751f8529\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e7aec01841d47ddaf7ee431751f8529\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There has been a particularly jovial mood across the House, I\u2019ve noticed, tonight, as the reading of this bill has been proceeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100ea63b11c04a79b2251a93e71120cd\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t kill the mood!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8c2ef6d166a4750801e5ea7d2371629\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! I wanted to begin by congratulating Andrew Bayly for bringing this bill to the House and tonight having it passed by consensus across this House, and also to congratulate the Justice Committee for their work in a cooperative, amicable way that has brought this bill to us in such a way that we can all agree on it. I also wanted to congratulate that committee for their fine appointment of Paul Heath QC, who was always my favourite of the High Court judges, and what a loss to the bench but a huge asset, I see, to the committee on this particular bill. It is nice to have cross-party support for anything that comes before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThis bill aims to update and streamline our laws on arbitration, which, if you look at the Arbitration Act, were passed in 1996. So I think it is timely, and, again, congratulations to the member who has actually brought this reform before us, because it has been a long time coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAlternative dispute resolution is so important. It is cost-effective, it keeps our courts from being so clogged up, as they have been, and we all know that that\u2019s really important because, of course, access to justice is important, and so we do want to encourage an effective and streamlined process that\u2019s alternative to the mainstream courts so that commercial entities and private citizens can actually avail themselves of that rather than coming into the very overworked and under-resourced public court system. So I do want to support this bill whole-heartedly in actually bringing New Zealand\u2019s arbitration laws in line with international standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EAs everyone has noted here tonight, we\u2019re doing that in such a way that is going to make our laws, actually, and New Zealand, an attractive centre for international arbitration\u2014though, as one of the submitters pointed out, that\u2019s a side-line benefit and not necessarily in and of itself the justification for reform. So we\u2019re doing this for New Zealand, but we are going to get this very attractive outcome as well, that we will be so up to date and so effective in arbitration that we may actually become a hub for this type of dispute resolution internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do just want to speak about open justice just very briefly, in that that was a concern, I know, of the members of the select committee, and this bill does extend the presumption of confidentiality in arbitration processes. You know, we do note that arbitration is a voluntary process. It\u2019s not part of the public justice system in the same way. So in the way that the transparency and openness of public justice processes is important to the public good, those same standards don\u2019t necessarily apply across the arbitration proceeding and in those contexts. But the members of the select committee did take that seriously, and the bill does, in the end, strike a good balance between the need for transparency and the ability of parties in arbitration proceedings to keep their information confidential and to make those proceedings thereby more effective; so that balance has been struck. Our justice system is coming up to date with 21st century standards and with international standards. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022abb14b61b5054f7483930b005460d104\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abb14b61b5054f7483930b005460d104\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to speak in the third reading of the Arbitration Amendment Bill. First of all, I would like to congratulate Andrew Bayly for getting this bill through to this stage. I am the last speaker in the third reading\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1cc93f7f9b545ca837076528bfc0a3a\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: But most important!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbb3b74f50843168531baae8aa9d213\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is. I would also like to acknowledge Paul Foster-Bell, the original author of this bill, who introduced this bill to the House, which was later on taken by a good friend, Andrew Bayly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always a pride for any member when their bill is drawn out of the ballot, and I had the privilege of my first bill being drawn out of the ballot. It went through and became a law at a later stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d64ccc8b12456e9951278f3e4bb244\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Which one was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225600fe00f55745b4a75da0c34e2b4495\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: The Military Manoeuvres Act Repeal Bill\u2014a historical bill in this House. I want to remind the House that that was the most uncontentious bill. It went through the whole stages quickly, and I really enjoyed that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267627c05f4f14a23be09f0a893349608\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: That was due to your negotiation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef727c127144142ac469b661fd60559\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. My skills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223404d7a0863d46428ec39435ab3bd8ff\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Show us your skills. Get this one done faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d330a56008940599e8fd30d50324c9e\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I will. Don\u2019t worry, Minister. I will. I am just taking some time to explain this bill\u2014what are the pros and\u2014yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis bill is a real opportunity for New Zealand to portray itself for arbitration on an international scale. International arbitration: that is the determining of cross-border disputes and is one of those areas that has developed significantly during recent decades. We have seen that a number of conflicts do arise from time to time, and New Zealand can be a hub for arbitration. We have seen the growth of businesses in Asia, and Singapore and Hong Kong have become the hubs to arbitration in the Asian continent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThere is an opportunity, as the world turns towards Asian economies, at a time when the number of cross-border commercial contracts and international treaties containing arbitration clauses have a growing space. The globalisation of world trade and investment has resulted in increasing harmonised arbitration practices worldwide. Indeed, the New York Convention, which allows the enforcement of arbitrator decisions, is signed by 159 countries across the globe. This is a real opportunity because we have expertise available right here in New Zealand where we can be of benefit to many businesses across Asia and the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EWe were talking to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade this morning, and they mentioned that the Indo-Pacific area is developing at a great pace, and this is the real opportunity where millions of dollars are spent on arbitration also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EBut arbitration also gives us the opportunity to reduce the burden on courts. We have seen that it is very expensive when the courts have to resolve commercial contracts, and it benefits the lawyers, not anybody else. But arbitration is a much cheaper option, where a resolution can be resolved by both the parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EMore recently, the Asian Development Bank has been actively promoting the adoption of model law relating to arbitration, with the express purpose to facilitate increased investment in the Pacific region as well as promoting these countries as an attractive location for conducting international arbitration proceedings\u2014but not so far in New Zealand. That is the key point: that we have to promote New Zealand on the world stage, where we can have the arbitration done over here. That not only gives the experts the opportunity to show their skills, but also gives opportunity for tourism and other businesses to get a connection to the Asian continent and other parts of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing that sometimes we see that the opportunity is missed out, but I would like to acknowledge the Hon Andrew Little, who agreed to some of the clauses to ensure that this arbitration clause can be specified. I would like to especially mention clause 1 of Schedule 2, which set out a default procedure for the appointment of arbitrators where the parties have reached no agreement as to the appointment. This is a very important clause which we need to understand. Many times we have seen that the parties do sign the agreement\u2014whether it a commercial agreement, there is a deed of understanding, or it is a business partnership. But they don\u2019t mention, in the clause, how they can resolve the issues if there are issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI would like to give an example over here which I think is very important. For example, two people entered into an agreement\u2014say, in the year 2017\u2014Mr Winton Singh and Jas Kaur. They both entered into an agreement and forgot to put the arbitration clause. They promised in that agreement that they will deliver certain things in 2019 which they are not able to deliver now and there is a dispute between Winton Singh and Jas Kaur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThis Arbitration Amendment Bill will be able to help, particularly the clause I just mentioned\u2014clause 1 of Schedule 2\u2014which can help to resolve that issue. So for Winton Singh and Jas Kaur, this is the opportunity of this bill to take the arbitration to resolve their issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EAnother clause, which is clause 1(4) and (5), gives rise to the problematic aspect involving what has been called the quick-draw process. There is a consequential amendment to the cross-reference in clause 1(1). This enables one party to trigger a process to appoint an arbitrator if the other party fails to respond to the communication within seven days of receiving it. So there was a lack of clause available, but this clause will fulfil that and remove the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe courts have expressed the concern that the situation can result in the task of appointing an arbitrator becoming nothing more than a race to issue the first default notice. In another case, a court was critical of the quick-draw procedure, describing it as broadening and\u2014the genuine dispute should be resolved by unilateral notice. So instead of going into the courts and going through an expensive mode, arbitration can be a genuinely cheaper option and quicker option, because we know already that the courts have a lot of burden of cases to resolve, and sometimes these cases which are civil cases are not prioritised. With these words, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224038697bf2a34070ab00717807d3b6b0\u0022\u003EPsychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022addd7240e5ea4094978123b112c7d00b\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51479db447747699c82c73ab8972ddc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51479db447747699c82c73ab8972ddc\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EMadam Deputy Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak to the third reading of this bill, the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill. It is now 15 months since this bill was drawn from the ballot, and in the time since, I\u2019ve been continuously reminded about the importance and urgency of this issue. Whether meeting with families affected by these drugs, toxicologists working in our hospitals, or community advocates, everyone has expressed the need for urgency in addressing this very real issue of synthetic drugs which we are facing in our communities. Over the past year, we have seen the issue of psychoactive substances become a national focus as dozens of individuals across the country have continued to die and more and more lives have been destroyed by these terrible drugs. Just this week, the coroner on Monday released updated statistics which show that in the 18 months since mid-2017, we have lost 80 lives to synthetic drugs. It is my sincere hope that 2019 will not see the same number of deaths and devastated lives as 2018 witnessed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to see that the Government\u2019s position has changed dramatically on this issue since I first brought this bill to the House last year. However, tonight I also urge them to vote my bill into law. What I and those who have joined me across the House have been doing is sending a strong message to those who would seek to profit off the misery of others that these substances are not welcome on our streets, that the preying of the malevolent on the vulnerable will not be tolerated, and that if you need help, we\u2019re here to give the assistance that you need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EFrom the very beginning, I\u2019ve consistently acknowledged that this issue will not be comprehensively addressed by this piece of legislation alone but that it is an important part of how we tackle drug harm in New Zealand. We must indeed treat the usage of these substances as a health issue and ensure that we\u2019re providing the very best support and care that we can for those who struggle with using these drugs and the help they need to come clean. That is why I petitioned Parliament to have an inquiry into the support provided to those suffering from addiction to synthetic drugs. Unfortunately, that petition was dismissed by this Government\u2014probably the only inquiry they\u2019ve ever said no to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EHowever, whilst we talk about the support needed for those suffering from synthetic drug harm, we cannot in any way compromise our unequivocal condemnation of the manufacturing and distribution of these drugs. It is patently clear that the penalties we place behind crimes show how seriously we take the issue. Allow me to be clear: I take the issue of psychoactive substances very seriously, and this is shown by my actions. When I looked at the penalties which apply to those found guilty of supplying synthetic drugs, I was shocked to learn that the penalty was only a maximum of two years\u2019 imprisonment, compared to a maximum of eight years for supplying marijuana. The dearth of penalties sufficiently strict to deter the supply and manufacturing of dangerous synthetic drugs is what has brought us to this point, and while I commend the Government for finally coming to the point where they also acknowledge the need for increased penalties, they have yet to pass their changes into law. Tonight, as they will seek to vote against my bill, they will have done nothing further than introduce a bill to first reading when it comes to this insidious issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EYes, they\u2019ve promised to make AMB-FUBINACA and 5F-ADB class A drugs. Those are the two worst and most deadly synthetic drugs out there. However, under the Misuse of Drugs Act, the Minister of Health has the power to schedule these drugs as class A drugs today. However, instead they are dragging their feet by legislating these measures while at the same time attempting to decriminalise all drugs by stealth. Let me be clear: the Minister of Health was first advised to schedule these drugs as class A last April and has yet to do this very thing one whole year on from receiving this advice. Just why the Minister has failed to do this is incredibly unclear and raises the question about whether the Government is actually committed to scheduling these drugs as class A. I challenge the Minister of Health tonight to take a call and explain why he has not used his powers under the Misuse of Drugs Act and acted urgently in scheduling these two substances which we know are causing so much pain and suffering in society. Is it because he knows the Green Party doesn\u2019t actually agree with this decision, or is it because the Government is not fully committed to making this change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI also urge the Government to vote for my bill, which is a necessary component of addressing the harm caused by synthetic drugs. While the Government is progressing legislation that amends the Misuse of Drugs Act and reclassifies these two potent forms of the drug, I\u2019m afraid the feet-dragging that we\u2019ve seen means these measures are too little, too late. The Government\u2019s legislation is too little. While they may be scheduling two of the worst synthetic drug strands as class A drugs, it is very easy for synthetic drug manufacturers to simply change their recipes to avoid longer sentences. What we will see is manufacturers looking to create chemically different compounds which attract a lower penalty so that they can continue to sell their misery with a lower risk of imprisonment or punishment. My bill, however, by amending the Psychoactive Substances Act, ensures that a consistent maximum penalty of 14 years\u2019 imprisonment is applied to those who supply any and all chemical compounds which make up psychoactive substances. If the Government only opts for classifying substances under the Misuse of Drugs Act, they will always be playing catch-up with drug dealers and gangs. Yes, they will have a new class C1, but how long will it take the Government to schedule new substances under this regime? It has taken them more than a year and they still have not scheduled AMB-FUBINACA or 5F-ADB after 80 deaths. How can the Government give New Zealanders confidence that they can tackle potential future drugs entering New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve shared the story of Calum Jones a number of times in this House, a story I feel illustrates the dangers of the current law so well. It is Calum and a tragic number of others just like him who should still be with us that motivated me to put forward this legislation. During the weeks before Calum\u2019s death, he had gone clean and given up drugs, but he was hounded by the dealer who supplied him. Over the last 72 hours of Calum\u2019s life, he received more than a hundred text messages from the dealer, preying on his past and on his vulnerability. Did the dealer know that this batch would kill Calum? No, probably not. Was he ignorant of the harm that his drugs would undoubtedly cause? Definitely not. Was he aware of the risks? Indisputably. Those who deal these substances knowingly poison their clients, and such heartlessness must be vigorously condemned by this House by ensuring that the penalties match the crime and the harm caused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe harm caused by psychoactive substances stems from as many causes as there are cases of use, and drug harm in general must be pursued through a multifaceted approach. Much work remains to be done in this country as we continue to look at drug reform, but the issue of psychoactive substances must remain a focal point of this discussion. While my critics may try to distort my position, I believe we must take a health-based approach to those who use drugs and support those who suffer from addictions. However, no progress will be made in this cause unless we can acknowledge the difference between using drugs and importing, manufacturing, and supplying drugs. A laissez-faire approach to drug law is not leadership; an education programme is not a plan. My heart goes out to those who suffer from the horrors of drug addiction, yet if we do not try and take action to protect these individuals in a swift and meaningful way, then we will not resolve these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I\u2019d like to again acknowledge the Justice Committee for their work in considering and addressing this bill; listening to the many, many submitters who submitted and reporting it back to the House. I\u2019d also like to thank everyone who has made a submission and has been involved in the process of this bill. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the support of New Zealand First for bringing this bill to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House, and I urge members to vote for this important measure to put in place credible deterrence for those who would otherwise see no reason not to peddle these appalling drugs. I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022124f6f2836bc4135b06f1e368edfb1b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022124f6f2836bc4135b06f1e368edfb1b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak against this bill, as I have throughout its passage, but acknowledging the, I think, genuine intent of the member who brought it to the House, Simeon Brown, who has a passion for seeing something done about this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House believe that this is not actually the best way of addressing the issue, because we do want to make sure that people caught in the web of addiction are given support to break the addiction, and we believe that what is important about dealing with the suppliers of the drugs is that the police have the search and seizure powers necessary to actually stop the supply of drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI note that the New Zealand Police Association argued that substance use and crime are often linked to the high cost of a drug habit fed by a criminal market place. These are the people who deal with the hardest end of crime, but they argued in the Justice Committee that this bill is not supported by evidence that increased penalties will deter people that use or supply these drugs; these are desperate people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe make no apology, on this side of the House, for going after the peddlers of these drugs. That is part of a health-based approach to addressing the scourge of these synthetic drugs. But we also believe that the important thing is that there is a health-based approach to support those caught in the web of addiction, and we believe that only that way will people be able to be supported to get out of that addiction to live the best lives that they can lead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIn recent days, I have received advice from district health boards that the presentations of harm have lowered significantly in the last year for drugs attributable in this way\u2014for synthetic drugs. That is good news. It is, however, too soon to celebrate that. We need to keep a watchful eye because we know that there are still drugs of this nature on our streets, albeit that customs are finding fewer of them coming through the border, in the evidence that we\u2019ve seen so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe best solution, of course\u2014and it needs to be put on record\u2014is for people not to take these drugs, and I think everyone in the House would agree that to be the case. The evidence around synthetic drugs is that, of all of the prohibited substances, these are amongst the most dangerous, and that is why in the bill that I have before the House they are classified as class A to ensure these drugs are put in the most severe category, giving police the powers they need to prosecute the suppliers and also the powers they need for search and seizure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI do want to pick up on the point the member Simeon Brown has raised around the new class C1. He argued that he wasn\u2019t sure how long it would take to classify substances coming into the country. This is precisely the point of that new class C1: it will mean that within a matter of days of receiving advice that drugs are harmful, I as Minister of Health will be able to classify drugs in a way that will enable the police to have the search and seizure powers they require to crack down on suppliers. So that is good news, and I expect the member will welcome that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWhat I would challenge the member on here is that he can\u2019t have it both ways. He can\u2019t in the same breath, as he did, challenge this Government on dragging its feet and say that we are decriminalising by stealth. Those two things are mutually contradictory, and yet the member would have us believe in this House that we\u2019re doing both of them at the same time; that this process of putting the bill through the House is far too slow, that we\u2019re dragging our feet in terms of the bill that we\u2019re putting through to reduce harm and crack down on suppliers but that we\u2019re doing it by stealth by doing it all too quickly, under the radar. Those two things cannot both be true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe are moving with appropriate speed. We know that these drugs are harmful to the citizens that we represent, to the people of New Zealand, but we also know that we need a thorough process. There have been hearings today, that have been reported on, that ensure that there are no unintended consequences of this law; that we don\u2019t punish those who are in the web of addiction by making them considered as suppliers by getting the amount wrong, that we don\u2019t write in the law something that a trained lawyer can spot as having caused trouble in past legislation. This is how a select committee process goes. As the member and other members in this House understand, a select committee process, when it\u2019s thorough, can iron out some of the creases in the first drafting of a bill and make sure there aren\u2019t unintended consequences, to make sure that we actually put through the best legislation that is possible to address this scourge of synthetic drugs on our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing, in my view, that this bill has progressed so far through the House, when there is evidence and information available that would show that it isn\u2019t the best way to address the issue; that simply increasing sentences for those caught peddling the drugs, just on its own, won\u2019t have a deterrent effect. That\u2019s what the evidence tells us. Actually giving the police the powers to search for and seize these drugs is a better approach, is what is needed. We have a different approach, whereby we are supporting, through codifying what the police already in practice do most of the time, their preference for a health-based approach when they catch people caught in the web of addiction with an amount of drugs on them that corresponds with being a user of the drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ELocking up more drug users is not the answer. All that that does is see a corresponding increase in the number of people using synthetic drugs in prisons. Many synthetic drugs don\u2019t show up in routine tests. The chemicals that make them up are changing all the time, new substances are arriving in the country, so prison managers rely instead on detector dogs, and we know that that is a challenging method, when the drugs are changing all the time. Prisoners do report for random drug testing but we know that that\u2019s not really a deterrent for these drugs, when they\u2019re difficult to detect. In a recent survey, nearly a quarter of all prisoners said it was very easy to get illegal drugs into prison. That\u2019s a longstanding issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAnd we also know that incarceration doesn\u2019t stop drug dependence. It actually in many cases removes people from the support and the chance for recovery that might exist when they\u2019re surrounded by their family, when they have income, prospects, hope, and a home. Those things are more likely to help people wrestle with their addiction and the underlying causes of that addiction than putting them in prison. We know that the international evidence points us toward an approach that is based on treating use as a health issue in the first instance\u2014unless, of course, there are other reasons why somebody should be locked up. The police have a discretion, and that discretion will be in our legislation because we think it\u2019s important that that discretion is there where the police need it. So it\u2019s not full decriminalisation, as some would have you believe, but it is a step towards treating drugs as a health issue, which we believe is the right approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t support this bill. We consider it to be redundant. We do take very seriously the issue of illicit drug supply and abuse, and we have a plan to sort it out, which we are getting on with moving quickly through this House, but with the appropriate checks and balances in place. Our plan has the support of our coalition and confidence and supply partners and of the people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI do want to thank, particularly, New Zealand First for the constructive way that they have worked with us on our bill, which will be a better solution, and particularly the member Darroch Ball, who has been very interested in this issue through time and has helped us find a way of looking out for those caught in the web of addiction and also made sure that we have an appropriate penalties regime and the search and supply powers for the police to actually interrupt the supply, to do a constructive thing. So I do want to thank Mr Ball and New Zealand First. I also want to thank the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick and the Green Party for their support for the legislation we are putting through the House. They have been advocates, and Chl\u00F6e in particular, for a health-based approach to drug use, and I want to acknowledge that and the constructive way in which they\u2019ve worked towards getting that legislation through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo, while the bill was well intended, it uses the same old approach that has failed and that has led to the deaths of far too many people from these illicit substances. We know that around 80 New Zealanders over a two-year period have had deaths connected to them. We propose a new and better approach because we take this problem seriously, and I want to thank the coalition and confidence and supply partners that we in Labour are working with to make sure we do have a solution to this scourge on our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1240c40fa6e4e27b4b1e7150b237acc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1240c40fa6e4e27b4b1e7150b237acc\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to talk to the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill in its third and final reading. I am saddened by the remarks of the member who has just resumed his seat. While I don\u2019t doubt for a moment that the Minister of Health has best intentions at heart, I still find it difficult to understand why increasing the penalty for the suppliers and the peddlers of these drugs is a bad thing. I think that, unfortunately, the issues with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3bc389de8a44d1b2062af3e497982c\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s happening, in the Government bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399d1afb229446e0b3b92740524310df\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: No, it isn\u2019t the same as the Government bill, and I supported your Supplementary Order Paper, actually, Darroch Ball. But I do believe that this is an issue that requires more immediate action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that the bill under its sponsor, Simeon Brown, has very carefully listened to the tragedies, actually. I was there on the forecourt of Parliament on the day that Calum\u2019s father, Lewis Jones, was there, but when I spoke to Lewis and heard about what that family had gone through, and also what their son, Calum, had gone through, I felt that the time to act was needing to be immediate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe idea that you could place it on hold and take it through a larger body of legislation and all the rest of it, which could take a long period of time to get through this House, rather than to vote through something that would initially, at least, address part of the problem, which is the fact that these people who peddle the drugs\u2014and my colleague Simeon Brown did detail the tragic last day of Calum Jones, where his dealer sent him something like around a hundred texts to try and get him to take more drugs, and then just turned up on his doorstep. So there was young Calum, with a child and with everything to live for. He had got clean, he was back in his environment, and this demon pursued him and, really, besieged him. That is the kind of person and that is the kind of action that deserves much harsher penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI have had personal experience with this in my own wider family, where younger people, in particular, have been predated upon around these psychoactive substances to the point where they\u2019re given them for free. I mean, there are just no boundaries with these people\u2014mixing them in with fentanyl to make them more addictive so that there is more likelihood of having a profit. The people who peddle this stuff are sometimes, but not always, addicted. They are individuals that have no moral compass whatsoever, and what Simeon Brown\u2019s bill is attempting to do\u2014and, you know, the title tells it like it is. It\u2019s about the distribution and the supply. This is not a redundant bill. This is not something that will fail, except by a lack of political will from the other side of the House, which I think is deplorable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo the petition that came to Parliament reflecting the experience of that one individual, Calum Jones, but also hundreds and hundreds of others before him was, I think, an inquiry that was worth having. To this day, I can\u2019t understand why the Government would not have it. As my colleague pointed out, this is a Government who is far more partial to inquiries than any other in New Zealand\u2019s parliamentary history. Why did they turn this one down? Oh, because they thought that they could get political advantage from introducing another bill. Really? What does that serve in terms of the victims of these drugs? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EYou know, this bill was never intended to solve all the problems\u2014no one bill can. The bill that the Government is proposing will not. There are a number of approaches that need to be taken, and I think the longer they delay and the longer the time when the penalties are increased and when the health benefits and so forth of rehabilitation are put in place, the more people will die, and it\u2019s as simple as that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EYou combine it with what we saw the other night in the House with the Corrections Amendment Bill, which has removed all of the useful things about drug and alcohol rehabilitation which the Hon Louise Upston had worked very hard on and consulted widely on, and which we believed would be a phenomenal deal-breaker, if you like, or game-changer for people who were addicted despite their best efforts and who needed to be cured of that before they could become the people they needed to be. So, for me, the Corrections Amendment Bill also was a wasted opportunity because it did not address the addiction and requiring people to get drug and alcohol treatment while they were in prison and when they come out, and that is a big miss. That is a shame that will result in deaths and a lot of misery for a lot of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAgain, I don\u2019t understand what motivates this Government to walk away from the humane and the appropriate approach and instead fall back on dogma and their own bills, rather than have the largesse to acknowledge that there are other pieces of legislation that will help and assist so that the Calum Jones tragedy does not repeat itself on a daily basis. I might need to be corrected on this, Simeon Brown, but I seem to recall that the police did manage to get those texts from the dealer, and he was being charged with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e3ce04235148bda784d525be6fcdd9\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: He was convicted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071828044c6d482bbf52d9c5214018b1\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: He was actually convicted. So it can work. You can get these people and find the evidence through the text trail that they leave and make the point that they are predating on the vulnerable. They are really profiting, in a way, from the death and the misery of others. They need to be held to account under the law, and they need the penalties. Why would you not have the same penalties as we have for marijuana as you do for psychoactive substance supply? What signal does that send these people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWhen I was in the Wairarapa a while ago\u2014probably about eight years ago now\u2014the psychoactive substances were available everywhere; in dairies, garages, and all the rest of it. We have had, I suppose, from that time, before the law was clarified properly\u2014and it still is too loose, from my perspective\u2014young people thinking it was OK to smoke this stuff because it was available readily. It didn\u2019t appear to be illegal. It caused enormous harm, and it is phenomenally addictive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe stuff that they put into it\u2014which changes all the time, of course, because they need to change it to remain legal\u2014are horse tranquilisers and things that are physically very violent to become clean from. I know that people were having terrible physical responses if they didn\u2019t smoke the psychoactive substances, and because they changed and because the dealers changed and they are more nimble than the law and more nimble than the politicians that make the law, the misery continues. I think, essentially, when you look at what this bill is trying to do, it\u2019s a small bill and narrowly focused, but its provisions around amending, with clause 4, section 70 to increase the penalty for selling or supplying unapproved psychoactive substances\u2014where\u2019s the harm in that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo how do the people on the other side of the House live with themselves saying, \u201CAh well, it\u2019s not going to solve all the problems. It\u2019s too punitive.\u201D Actually, if it saves one or two or three lives and if it punishes more of these dealers that are peddling misery and death, it\u2019s worth doing. The high horse on a political agenda isn\u2019t really a comfortable place to be when there are young men like Calum Jones, with their lives ahead of them, who are predated upon by people who need to have penalties that match the harm that they are doing to others, and that\u2019s perhaps where we differ between parties on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EYou take a more benign, relaxed approach. You think that perhaps if a perfectly formed law is there that all problems will be solved. I\u2019m not quite sure what the psyche is behind your logic. I don\u2019t agree with it. But what I believe and what I think would happen with this bill, if it went through, is that by increasing the penalty from a maximum of two years\u2019 imprisonment to a maximum of eight years\u2014and, by the way, bringing it in line with other drugs\u2014it would send a very strong signal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EFor the small towns and for the big cities with the dairies and the communities where this stuff is still being peddled, this would be an effective deterrent. We are seeing a growing number of illegal products on the market, so it\u2019s very important that these suppliers comply with the Act and with the testing regimes which are being set up through trial and error to try and ensure the approval of these substances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo, for me, when I look at what is in this bill and when I think back to the conversation that I had with Lewis Jones, Calum\u2019s father, he was a man who was deeply troubled by what had happened to his son and who desperately wanted this not to happen to anyone else, which is why, as a New Zealand male who was not necessarily used to telling very personal and private stories, he told the stories of his son. He told how, when they did the autopsy, his sons\u2019 internal organs were just completely ruined. These drugs are phenomenally dangerous. They need to be stopped, and the way to do that is to get through to the suppliers, to take this bill and its measures\u2014which, to me, is not a massive step. I\u2019m disappointed in the Government and its supply partners in not recognising that this was something that could have been done. It\u2019s not going to achieve everything, but it\u2019s going to achieve a heck of a lot more than what is happening at the moment, thanks to the inaction and the blocking of this Government to a bill that would do a lot of good to a lot of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think, in memory of Calum Jones, this House should stand ashamed of itself tonight, and members who haven\u2019t yet got the call should stay seated. So this is a bill that should have passed and is not passing because of the dogma and ridiculous philosophy of this Government and its coalition partners. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00229879bced99ee4045b53a0874b041a0b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229879bced99ee4045b53a0874b041a0b7\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I want to begin my contribution in tonight\u2019s debate by acknowledging the sponsor of this bill, Simeon Brown. We have had conversations behind the scenes, and I do think that his intentions behind this bill, and the conversations that he\u2019s obviously had with members of the community in trying to stop the harm that these drugs cause in our communities\u2014I do think that his intentions are noble. But I think, however\u2014and I don\u2019t just think but I know, because I\u2019ve done the research and I\u2019ve looked at the evidence\u2014that this bill won\u2019t do anything to stop that harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOne of the many reasons that I know this is because we\u2019ve actually had this debate before. We\u2019ve had this debate a number of times before. But the debate that I want to draw members in this Chamber\u2019s attention to is the debate in May 2003 on the reclassification of methamphetamine to a class A substance, carrying lifetime imprisonment for exactly the same things that the sponsor of this bill is trying to do with psychoactive substances: increasing penalties for supply and distribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s quite pertinent to read out some extracts from that debate in 2003, because they could actually be replicated today in this debate if you were to exchange the word \u201Cmethamphetamine\u201D for \u201Cpsychoactive substances\u201D. The contribution in 2003 of the National Party MP Dr Lynda Scott was\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe Greens did not believe there were sound arguments to show that increasing the classification beyond the one that is currently adopted would reduce the use of amphetamines in New Zealand. I am pretty sure that when the people who are actually making those drugs know that they can get life imprisonment for doing so, that will have an effect.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe then had the contribution in that 2003 debate from Nandor Tanczos, a former Green MP and my predecessor in the drug harm reduction portfolio, who said, \u201CThe Greens are very concerned about how we can do something to reduce the use and abuse of methamphetamines. But I say that reclassifying methamphetamines as a class A drug will do absolutely nothing \u2026 to address that situation. If we look at the various arguments put forward in support of the reclassification, we see that they [simply] do not stack up.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThose arguments are as applicable today as they were 16 years ago, and we have quite straightforward data that demonstrates that. It comes from the Ministry of Justice, which shows that in the last nine years, under a class A regime, the use and the police charges and prosecution of methamphetamine has continued to increase. In New Zealand, the total number of people charged for methamphetamine offences increased from 1,850 in 2009 to 3,222 in 2018. If we break that down into use, in 2009, 1,428 people were charged, and that went up\u2014almost doubled\u2014to 2,487 in 2018. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThose facts go directly to the heart of the argument that has been attempted to be progressed by members of the Opposition, who have argued that, somehow, increasing penalties for supply and distribution is going to be a credible deterrent. Show me the evidence, because there is absolutely none. In fact, if we are to look at direct examples where we have done exactly this approach 16 years ago with methamphetamine, what we have seen is simply an increase in harm, an increase in use, and an increase in prosecutions, meaning an increase in the number of people in our prison cells. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EMaggie Barry, the speaker before me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3dc08d060774b4aa1269b8ea1d79ac2\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CThe Hon Maggie Barry\u201D to that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd272794692145cab114745863881543\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Hon Maggie Barry\u2014asked why this bill is a bad thing. This bill is a bad thing, the Hon Maggie Barry, because it provides false hope. I want to say to members of the public who have been listening to this debate and who have been following it intently\u2014because it is of significant importance to this country. People\u2019s lives are genuinely at stake, and that is why I have got so riled up throughout this debate over the past year. People\u2019s lives are genuinely at stake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI would say to those members of the Opposition who are presently heckling me that your former leader, the former Prime Minister Bill English, at the time the death count was starting to rise, called this an issue of personal responsibility. So I\u2019m glad that they\u2019ve now woken up to the fact that the Government does need to step in and design some legislation that works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI heard members of the Opposition heckling during question time today that \u201CExplaining is losing.\u201D, and therein I can see exactly the approach that they are attempting to take with this bill. This is not explaining. This is not explaining why people become addicted to these substances, why that demand is there, and, therefore, why the supply matches it. It does not explain the evidence and it does not comply with the research and it will do worse than nothing\u2014it will increase the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want to give another example of how the Opposition appears to be speaking out of both sides of their mouths on this issue. On the one side, they are saying that increasing penalties is, somehow, going to minimise this problem, but they recognise\u2014because they voted for it 16 years ago\u2014that we tried this exact same approach with methamphetamine. But in question No. 9 in question time today, the Hon Paula Bennett asked our Prime Minister: \u201CHas she seen the New Zealand Police evidence that New Zealanders consume around 16 kilograms of methamphetamine a week, doing $20 million worth of social harm,\u201D\u2014that is, the harm that is currently being perpetuated by a drug that we gave a life sentence to 16 years ago. How can we think that having this debate again and again and again is going to do anything about addressing this problem? We keep increasing the penalties and we keep pushing the problem further and further into the shadows and we keep making things worse, and, meanwhile, people are dying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want to refer, finally, to the point raised by the sponsor of this bill, Simeon Brown, about the advice of the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs to reclassify these two substances implicated in the deaths of, now, over a hundred New Zealanders. This is something which I think requires a bit more explanation, despite the fact that somehow that equates to losing, which I would say is pretty emblematic of many of the problems that pervade this institution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut the advice to reclassify those two substances coming from the expert advisory committee\u2014the expert advisory committee was established in 2006 with an amendment to the Misuse of Drugs Act, and in that amendment, the mandate of the expert advisory committee was only to recommend classification of substances relative to other substances with regard to their harm. They simply cannot and do not have the mandate to recommend any other meaningful or more beneficial approaches to reducing harm in our communities. Literally, all they can do is suggest classification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe member also spoke about the wont to treat these substances as a health issue and to treat the users as a health issue. You have an opportunity to do that, and it\u2019s through supporting the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill that is presently before the Health Committee. If you genuinely do not want to punish users and if you want to treat this as a health issue\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9fa16a5474d4611a81392aa83bf2c73\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not me. Not me\u2014thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298707466d8854bc08f1df3e637a1a722\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: If the member and the National Party would like to treat this as a health issue, then they have an opportunity to do so. It looks like decriminalising the users. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a94e823c7414bc1ba7243cc11f70fff\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s have a debate on that, but don\u2019t do it by stealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e77c7ea2ea44a8789f70abfcba99ad6\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: You cannot say that you want to treat something as a health issue and then lock those people up, and, Simeon Brown, we have had that debate. It was in the first reading of the Misuse of Drugs Act. It can\u2019t simultaneously be happening by stealth and then be passing through the exact same process that all legislation in this House does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, in summation, this bill will do worse than nothing. We have had this debate over and over again for the last 40 years. The most recent example was those 16 years ago, on methamphetamine. The Greens are proud to, again, stand in opposition to such flawed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00226c2a1ae8076f42a88ec4a6136103ada5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c2a1ae8076f42a88ec4a6136103ada5\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. New Zealand First won\u2019t be supporting the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill any further through the House, even though we did support it through up until this point, and I\u2019ll get into the reasons why we did that in a second. I think, firstly, when anyone is speaking on this bill, we\u2019ve got to be very careful about what this bill is actually aiming to do, understanding what it\u2019s aiming to do and who this bill is targeting. I stand by all of my comments in all my previous speeches through the stages of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EOne of the major reasons why New Zealand First supported it up until this point was that, first of all, there was no other option on the table at that point in time. The second was that this bill only targets the dealers and the suppliers. New Zealand First knew\u2014and we have taken that even further and helped develop the Government bill\u2014that we needed to come down hard on the manufacturers and suppliers and dealers of this synthetic poison. In no way, shape, or form would New Zealand First have supported this bill if it was in any way, shape, or form targeting the vulnerable users and those that were addicted to this substance. So although this debate does, obviously, make people passionate about it\u2014and it should, because people are dying, and we\u2019ve heard from Simeon Brown that recently we\u2019ve lost 80 people to this\u2014I can say, with some certainty, that most, if not all, of those people that did die weren\u2019t the dealers and manufacturers of the poison; they were the users and the vulnerable people that were addicted. The people that were manufacturing, and selling, and peddling this stuff were the ones that didn\u2019t care one iota about what was in it, didn\u2019t care one iota about the people that were taking it and those that were suffering from it\u2014not only those people that were taking it, but their families as well. So that\u2019s why New Zealand First was supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe reason why we\u2019re no longer supporting it is because\u2014and I am pretty certain from listening to both the National Party members so far, but especially the author of this bill, Simeon Brown, that they know that the Government bill and the Government pathway that we\u2019re taking makes this bill that we\u2019re talking about irrelevant; it makes it absolutely irrelevant, and it\u2019s very baseless. All this bill does is change one number from the original bill, which was \u201C2 years\u201D, to \u201C8 years\u201D, which is a class C equivalent for dealers and manufacturers: prison sentence eight years. With New Zealand First Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 23, we increase it to be more like a class B drug, which is a 14-year sentence. So it only ever changes the penalty that can be\u2014not mandatorily\u2014dished out to a supplier and manufacturer if the judge so decides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo if we\u2019ve got a really big problem\u2014and we do, and Simeon Brown has said that we\u2019ve got a big problem with psychoactive substances\u2014one little change in a number is not going to change the issue. It\u2019s not going to change in its entirety the problem with psychoactive substances, their manufacturing, and the people who are dealing this stuff. It just won\u2019t do it, and he\u2019s admitted that. He said in his speech tonight that this isn\u2019t the perfect bill and this isn\u2019t a silver bullet and it needs to be developed. He also acknowledged the fact that there needs to be a health-based approach for the users of these drugs, of these poisons. The very fact that he\u2019s acknowledged that means that there is something inherently wrong with the very Act that he\u2019s tweaking. We need to have a different approach with the entirety of the problem of psychoactive substances if the Act itself doesn\u2019t work, and that\u2019s what the Government has tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe pathway that the Government wants to go down is\u2014and this is why we\u2019re supporting and helped to develop the Government bill\u2014increased penalties for the drug dealers and the manufacturers and the peddlers of psychoactive substances. This is the main reason why it makes this bill that we\u2019re talking about right now irrelevant. First of all, it takes the two most deadly strains that have killed these people that we\u2019re talking about, and it doesn\u2019t take them from two to eight years, which is what Simeon Brown\u2019s bill did originally, and it doesn\u2019t take it from two to 14 years, which is what New Zealand First\u2019s SOP 23 made it; it takes it to life in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from Maggie Barry and from Simeon Brown about the importance of the penalties to act as deterrents for those people who are manufacturing this poison. We have listened. We understand that. New Zealand First supports that concept. That\u2019s why we have supported the Government bill and pathway to increase the penalties for suppliers and manufacturers. It quite literally makes Simeon Brown\u2019s bill irrelevant. Not only that, but all of the new\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5af176905d470d935828d9af540704\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: When did that one pass?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263d4df68ac6e42dd891c13d555c617c0\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I\u2019ll get to that in a second\u2014substances that come across will automatically be put into a class C1 , which is eight years in prison, which is the exact same amount that the original bill from Simeon Brown wanted to create. It quite literally makes it irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENow, we had a comment from Chris Penk about \u201CWhen did it pass? When did it pass?\u201D, and we had comments from Simeon Brown about wanting to have the Government bill put through under urgency. I mean, how many lectures have we had from that side of the House about us putting through bills under urgency and not putting it through the proper process and not avoiding the consequences that should\u2019ve been avoided in the first place? The Minister said it himself in his speech; he said it needs to go through the proper process to ensure that we iron out all of the potential problems that would be in there. It is the most responsible thing to do with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EIf we are going to do this and solve a very complicated problem, first of all, it\u2019s not going to be solved by a little tweak taking it from two years to eight years. First of all, that\u2019s not going to happen\u2014it won\u2019t work. But if we are going to do this responsibly, then we have to go through the proper process. If we do it, we\u2019ve got to do it once; we\u2019ve got to do it right. That\u2019s what this Government is doing. We understand the impact and the issues that this poison creates for our society. That\u2019s why we understand that it\u2019s not a one-dimensional approach that we need to take to try and tackle this. Yes, we do need to have increased penalties for the dealers and suppliers and manufacturers, but we also have to have a better approach when we are dealing with those that are vulnerable, that are addicted to this substance, and who are suffering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First understands the intent of Simeon Brown and his bill, and we supported it up until this point when there was nothing else on the table that would even look like dealing with the problem. But we do now\u2014this Government has a solution. It\u2019s a solution that makes this bill irrelevant, and that\u2019s why we won\u2019t be supporting it any further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002218f241aec4504a18a02662dbdeaf44ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218f241aec4504a18a02662dbdeaf44ae\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, delighted. Thank you very much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267aa2b7ca75541cdafdeb0075026abcb\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, thank you, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ff520c8d3641f39926450bdad43cf2\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I can\u2019t quite get deep enough. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on this bill, the Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill, at the third reading. Can I, actually, acknowledge the member who\u2019s taken his seat. We are disappointed, on this side of the House, that we cannot\u2014and I can\u2019t speak for the member of the bill, Simeon Brown, but I think, at the start, I\u2019m pleased that there was cooperation between National and New Zealand First, including moving from eight to 14 years. We are, of course, disappointed now that New Zealand First is not continuing to support this bill; it\u2019s going a little bit soft, I think, around this drug law. But to acknowledge\u2014we\u2019ll come back to some of the other parties on this in a moment, and we\u2019ve got a few doozys for the Greens a bit later\u2014the initial work that New Zealand First did in supporting this bill and, again, on record, noting not taking it through to this third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge Simeon Brown. He\u2019s been the face of this; he has pushed this bill through with great passion. I think that passion\u2019s come through a particular experience with a family and their experiences and the loss of their son. It started with a petition which well over 1,000 Kiwis signed and took an opportunity to express their views that more needed to be done. I think\u2014really positively\u2014Simeon has not only championed the cause but properly engaged with those who not only mourn the loss of loved ones because of the use of these substances, but supporting those who still struggle; then to take it from a petition and bring it into this House as a piece of legislation. With the luck that seems to come to some politicians, and only once to myself, it was drawn very quickly from the ballot and here we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257668f0f65c94e659f85c0ca74197449\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be bitter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f4a1053a164a01bcbf543f14ead230\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll try not to be bitter. There\u2019s probably a pill I can take for that anyway, a legal one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EReally, fundamentally, this is about supply and distribution. This is about those who peddle these substances. They\u2019re incredibly dangerous substances, as are all drugs, in fact, those which are legal or illegal. But one of the nasty attributes of psychoactive substances is that we really don\u2019t know what\u2019s in them, and that really increases the danger. But why it\u2019s incredibly important to stress that this is about the supply and distribution is that we\u2019ve heard speeches in this House, including from the Green Party and from Labour, conflating, I would suggest deliberately, the user with the distributor. This bill is not criminalising the users. This bill, I\u2019ll say it again, is not criminalising the users; it\u2019s specifically, deliberately targeting those who supply and distribute these drugs. These drugs which kill people\u2014they kill people. We had over 80 New Zealanders die through the use of these drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons this side of the House is a bit agitated about the lack of support\u2014and look, that\u2019s democracy, we appreciate that. We\u2019ll see what the final vote brings. Why we\u2019re agitated is that the talk about the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill that is slowly winding its way through the House is that this bill would provide an immediate partial solution\u2014no one presumes that this is going to fix it overnight; anyone would be naive to think that the drug problem is not too difficult. But had this bill passed, we would have made a positive, strong, deliberate step to actually reducing drug harm by targeting those who peddle these dangerous drugs. Instead, we\u2019re being told that there\u2019s this Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill which will eventually get passed, I assume, in this House. There are two problems with that. One, it\u2019s not passed. It\u2019s still a bill; it\u2019s still progressing through select committee. It\u2019s got to come back through its various readings. So when people lament the death of 80 New Zealanders over a year, you have to think, well, what does that mean if it takes another year for this Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill to pass? What excuse do we make to those 80 dead people and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe other side, too, is the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill is a misuse of the English language, because it\u2019s, really, pro-use of drugs. There is very much a distinction in this House between those who are pro-drugs and those who are not. The Green Party, in particular, have been\u2014I\u2019ll give them credit\u2014very consistent in saying that drug use is OK, it\u2019s a health issue. As I\u2019ve often termed it, when people talk about a \u201Chealth issue\u201D, it basically means one person can use drugs and everyone else pays the consequences. But they are generally pro-drugs, and that\u2019s why the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill is, effectively, decriminalising all drugs. I see, actually, today in the paper, the Green Party are also really keen on the use of drugs like phenobarbital for the sick, the disabled, and the elderly. So I\u2019ll give the Green Party credit\u2014you are consistent, so we\u2019ll give you that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we oppose this here because to approach the drug issue is always about a multifaceted approach. This side of the House\u2014those of us who are not pro-drugs, who are tougher on crime, tougher on drugs\u2014are often told we\u2019re just singular in our view. The flipside to that is that when we listen to the likes of the Green Party and other libertarians\u2014which is really just a childish philosophy\u2014really, they only have a singular approach as well, and most of us know that it is about both. So we can have a health approach. We can, in a sense, work and try to support those with drug addictions. I\u2019ve spent a good chunk of my life helping people with drug addictions in different shapes and forms, and it\u2019s great that we try to help them. Criminalising them is not the way forward. The criminalisation side comes on the suppliers, the dealers. You attempt, as best you can, to stop the supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ENo one believes, least of all myself, that we\u2019re ever going to stop this. But I\u2019ve said it so many times in the House it probably bores myself as much as everyone else that the enemy of the good is the perfect. So the element here is, fundamentally, we\u2019re never going to get it absolutely, perfectly right but we can always make these attempts. The law in particular always sends a signal, particularly to our young people, that in this case drug use is not right. Our laws too, very importantly, send signals around what is criminal and what is not, where life is important and where it is not. The law is an incredibly important statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EYou begin to see, unfortunately, particularly from the other side, the contradictions that kick in, because it\u2019s the fundamental argument\u2014and one of the Green speakers that took her seat pushed through what is a fairly familiar argument. It\u2019s always prefixed with the notion that all the evidence points in that direction. Well, all the evidence will always point in that direction if that\u2019s the only evidence you look at and not all the other evidence. Because this is actually a debating point; there is a whole lot of evidence and contrary information that has to be debated. But a lot of the argument that was coming through from the Green Party and others is, you know, you don\u2019t and shouldn\u2019t legislate around this sort of stuff\u2014drugs. It won\u2019t change behaviours\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a40664b55ca4c9294e17fa6e38ba351\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Reduce harm\u2014reduce harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9175733b8a64a419bc1dfc987f845be\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in fact, laws like this just increase the harm. The laws just make things worse. I heard some of that coming back through there. In fact, one of the things was, \u201CIt just turns the problem into the shadows. It pushes the problems into the shadows.\u201D One of the things I love to do is look at consistency in arguments. So when that proffered by the likes of the Green Party around drugs\u2014so don\u2019t do harder drug laws. In fact, try not to have any laws around drugs really, because it won\u2019t change the behaviour, it\u2019ll make things worse. It\u2019ll turn the problems and push them into the shadows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m really interested to know is what the Greens think if I apply that to, let me think, hate speech. Because they\u2019re really keen on using that approach to have hate speech legislation pushed on to this House. They actually want to criminalise words\u2014not drugs but words. So I just encourage the Green Party to think about that when they advocate for the limiting of New Zealand\u2019s speech, that, if that\u2019s going to be the case, that won\u2019t change behaviour. It will make things worse and it will push things into the shadows. That\u2019s just something for the Green Party to think about, because consistency is incredibly, incredibly important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne thing you\u2019ll find, particularly when it comes to drugs that I will, myself\u2014and I\u2019m pretty sure all on this side of the House\u2014remain consistent on, is that we need to basically have a dual approach to drugs and, really, fundamentally, this bill that Simeon Brown\u2019s put forward is singularly targeted at the suppliers and the distributors of these insidious drugs. It created a system that was proportionate. It was going to put all of these psychoactive substances into a class B category. It didn\u2019t have to require a new\u2014what is it\u2014C1, a new one that\u2019s made up. It was a swift and efficient mechanism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve had lots of rending of garments around the various drugs\u2014I don\u2019t have it right in front of me here\u2014that\u2019s the 5F-ADB and AMB-FUBINACA. These can be put into the schedules by the Minister of Health right now by Order in Council. The Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill is making rather, I would suggest, cumbersome process. Simeon Brown\u2019s suggestion was just to make all psychoactive substances into a class B, and so, fundamentally, the nature of psychoactive substances is that they are not, let\u2019s say, predetermined as a heroin or a fentanyl. Phenobarbital\u2014we\u2019re going to hear more about that drug. It\u2019s fascinating. The disabled hate it. We\u2019ll learn more in a few weeks about that. But psychoactive substances are constantly, constantly changing, and the moment that we legislate one by name\u2014so like the AMB-FUBINACA\u2014you just make one little change and it\u2019s no longer that. So there\u2019s a real challenge here for the Government to work harder and stronger and better to actually understand what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002224bd4adb7ca94829918e89b6515db2fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224bd4adb7ca94829918e89b6515db2fb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. His time has finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019050191490e3a120b4369938260156fd77cc6000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"