"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5f06f1a24934daa97627a2177fff053\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 28 MAY 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e92cb0c556d64f44a02c4ae7447c9814\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 28 MAY 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d692d80315348afb54c679d1a5c5d3f\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276b9998a9667439c9d6515f0c228c6b9\u0022\u003EPrayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022941a46195dc34a06982e70bc5e16af09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022941a46195dc34a06982e70bc5e16af09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In order to celebrate Samoan Language Week, I have asked Agnes Loheni to recite the prayer in Samoan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00225f4765c79b384b0fb25736fd7f9cb36e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f4765c79b384b0fb25736fd7f9cb36e\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Tatou ifo ma tatalo. Le Atua Silisili ese e, matou te sulaina lau Afio mo fa\u2018amanuiaga ma tofi ua e fa\u2018au\u2018uina ai i matou. E lafoa\u2018i ni o matou lagona ma manatua ta\u2018ito\u2018atasi i le amana\u2018iaina o le Masiofo o Peretania. Matou te tatalo ina ia tonu ma fa\u2018amaoni fuafuaga ma fa\u2018ai\u2018uga uma i totonu o lenei Maota Fono. Ia talosia ta\u2018ita\u2018i o lenei M\u0101l\u014D ina ia maua le t\u014Df\u0101 mamao, le fa\u2018apalepale ma le agamal\u016B, au\u0101 le manuia ma le filem\u016B o Niu Sila. O le matou tatalo lea, e ala atu i le suafa pele o Iesu Keriso, Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292200d681b3d4b188a7a941389be2abc\u0022\u003EMOTIONS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4316d16b2c846d0993462220abde59a\u0022\u003EClimate Emergency\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1974d5d5bdd4398b86ec4f97aa6254b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1974d5d5bdd4398b86ec4f97aa6254b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move a motion without notice and without debate to declare a climate emergency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdf09ba230a74a90b35336cb1452ee0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdf09ba230a74a90b35336cb1452ee0c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that motion? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fcdc39f2e0314b1a9e2794d1c02b8505\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a2ee4364d1b47e79e03c6f9c2c41511\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statement\u2014Seismic Strength of Bowen House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002248918aeabbdb4db19b5f0f8448596dd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248918aeabbdb4db19b5f0f8448596dd5\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to raise a matter with you that is of some concern to members of this House and ask you if, in your role as Minister responsible for the Parliamentary Service, and, effectively, as Speaker, the Minister responsible for the parliamentary complex, it is your intention to make a ministerial statement about growing concerns raised around the seismic strength of Bowen House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002260d05dcd6c704d559d78507f725cdc1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260d05dcd6c704d559d78507f725cdc1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, let\u2019s sort of avoid the irregularity of not being able to ask the Speaker questions, and I will respond and say that discussions are ongoing around a report on the seismic strengthening of Bowen House. When there is any clarity on that, a statement will then be made either by me or by the responsible authorities. I will reinforce the comments that I made last week that if I became convinced that the building was currently illegal, it would be evacuated immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221f6f8978f83d40799d8385ba0abe2354\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7ff7ddcce1443d48f6fd55c7887c2d6\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227137b8d2a6bc40bbb0cd767c00cdf413\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba9fd92b52224991b44fb4557573637c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba9fd92b52224991b44fb4557573637c\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What are the priorities for Budget 2019?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeeb67f46a1e47ddb58e81064586c87c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeeb67f46a1e47ddb58e81064586c87c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2019 is about tackling New Zealand\u2019s long-term challenges. This is reflected in our priorities for the Budget, which are taking mental health seriously, improving child wellbeing, supporting M\u0101ori and Pasifika aspirations, building a productive nation, and transforming the economy. These represent some of the biggest long-term challenges and opportunities that we face as a country. After nine years of these problems being ignored, we\u2019re proud to be getting on with the job of starting to fix the long-term challenges facing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255762cce595d4cbfa43677e6cc33232a\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: How did the Government select these priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215169bb13bc74321a009589745217dbe\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: This year, the Budget priorities were developed on the basis of a wellbeing analysis. This involved looking at the evidence, to assess where we have the greatest opportunities to make a difference to New Zealanders\u2019 long-term wellbeing, and we have focused our efforts on those opportunities. To inform this analysis, we\u2019ve drawn on demographic and other data from Treasury\u2019s Living Standards Framework dashboard, as well as other evidence and advice from science advisers and other sector experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1b44abd7abf46979ebd8a9804598368\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What are some examples of the evidence behind these priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d15afdecce0745d5aa730e15783a702c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, for example, data from Treasury\u2019s Living Standards Framework tells us that, in any 12-month period, about one in five New Zealanders will have a diagnosable mental illness, with three-quarters of lifetime cases starting by the age of 25. That is why we are taking mental health seriously in this Budget. Another example is that, according to the General Social Survey, the material standards of living for Pacific people is around half that of the general population and is a third lower for M\u0101ori. That is why we have prioritised supporting M\u0101ori and Pasifika aspirations in this Budget. A big difference in this year\u2019s Budget is that we have integrated evidence and a range of indicators of wellbeing at every stage of the Budget process. The Wellbeing Budget means we will be able to track New Zealanders\u2019 success on all of the things that they value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213972c5cdbac48f2860c511abf7c2e9b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for Simon Bridges to be able to answer questions about what\u2019s in this upcoming Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad98b3b55eb145c3bac3241448fb46db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I think I will just ignore the disorderly point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223e3eb3d11784e2286ff07811a335de5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002237cf9caf6ae1454a9f52a0d2fcbc4351\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237cf9caf6ae1454a9f52a0d2fcbc4351\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements, policies, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00223be0f0132ad04d74b75644bfdba3428e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223be0f0132ad04d74b75644bfdba3428e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6dc631af3d4b2f9331fd0ccc003909\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that two days before the Budget is released, I, the Leader of the Opposition, received details of next year\u2019s appropriations across 18 votes, including health and defence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b1841b3b0b44498ebbf19bb99fe560\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for reminding me that he does indeed still have that role. We are not announcing Budget 2019 today, but I also note that neither has the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5e3b77e73de49f8aecc96765feffc41\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Nasty, nasty. With a bit of pressure on her Budget, has she already done away with the kindness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298bc8b15d2b94e00abf3a0021d0fc7b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbcbe39d574449fa8565a0da0352e454\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has she spoken to her Ministers\u2014Winston Peters, Shane Jones, and Ron Mark\u2014about the fact that National has obtained appropriation details for Votes Forestry, Foreign Affairs and Trade, Overseas Development Assistance, and Defence and Defence Force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d18aa4ae224d81933e0a9679103961\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, because I have absolutely no need to. Again, I reiterate that we\u2019re not announcing Budget 2019 today, but neither has the National Party. I also reflect the statements that have been made by the Minister of Finance. Our focus is on delivering the Budget in two days\u2019 time, but what I can assure you is that after that fact we\u2019ll deal with what\u2019s happened here today, but none of it relates to anyone in the Beehive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8307b692a84eb2a09a2c9293973f6b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is more being invested in defence over the next year, through Budget 2019, than teachers\u2019 pay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b79160ba11f74108a393d10d24adf9e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen the statements made by the member in his press statement and he is just wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de6ba242e6f403b9ca683a256dfde7e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that tanks are more of a priority than teachers\u2019 pay and how does that fit with her Wellbeing Budget themes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a2eb2da317e4c01969b4f8371c91d7a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, I am going to ask the member to rephrase that. He\u2019s just been told very directly that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed887bfdffaf4ba7a77c0ffe18c015a5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Why is more being invested in forestry than dental care\u2014which, in fact, gets nothing\u2014through Budget 2019?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273aac0a9c8ff4e69b27b7e924496b3c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already said that the statements and assumptions being made by the member are absolutely wrong. If he wants to undermine his own credibility in this House, that is his decision, not ours. Again, for instance, there are no tanks in this Budget. He is misleading people. It\u2019s his credibility, not mine, so it\u2019s his call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd752c5b835a49859e41d738ad9b0bcc\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the figures, with regard to the Budget, published in the media this morning accurately reflect what is in the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a54fa2e6fca47208165d185e46b766b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I think the statement that\u2019s already been made by the Minister of Finance\u2014in fact, some of the language that\u2019s been put out is from the 2018 Budget. Some of the figures are right; some of them are wrong. We\u2019re not going to get into that detail today. The members need to wait only another two days until they will see the 2019 Budget. I\u2019m not announcing it today, but neither has that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022454ff432818b468182c32279639bf346\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How did the media come to have correct figures about the Budget two days early?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222259dfbd15974a6182a4a8e7e7143006\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said publicly to the media, my focus at the moment is delivering the Budget itself. That should be the focus of everyone in this House, because that is what New Zealanders care about. In the aftermath of that, we will deal with those issues. New Zealanders are not interested in the internal workings of this place; they are interested in whether or not we are taking mental health seriously, whether or not we\u2019re investing in children living in poverty, whether or not we\u2019re investing in family and sexual violence, and whether or not we\u2019re transitioning our economy to be a low-emissions economy\u2014that is what this side of the House is focused on, not petty politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bc7077f97d84668b8b234f4a1fbddb4\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister gave a very long answer but at no point did she come remotely close to addressing the simple question: how did the media get the figures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb97a135f78492a8a6670fce673b09c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and I think right at the beginning she did. I probably should have stopped her at that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b36abf785b45e7ba25ef24b993936f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she come back and correct her answer if there is $1.3 billion or more in this Budget on Thursday for defence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d93afea21e24ff28a2dd4b36bd0f130\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, as I\u2019ve said, the member\u2019s assumptions about the Budget, and the statements he\u2019s made about teachers and tanks, are just wrong. Again, as well, we have acknowledged that also some of the texts he\u2019s released are from 2018. Some numbers are right; some are wrong. He has not released the Budget today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022340f9afb0abc4b1c881b1afb8be521c3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked if she would correct her answer if there was $1.3 billion or more in the Budget on Thursday for defence, and given that she said I\u2019ve misled the House, I think she should answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd6d4f611b449a58b099d1214c898d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened to the question and I listened to the answer; probably both of them skirted outside the strict Standing Orders requirements. I\u2019ll just leave it at one-all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9182a2af9d418d9947b6f486cea5e8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is there $1.3 billion or more in the 2019-20 year for defence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202758f73486c4bea9892a7634dbcc7dc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No numbers in this Budget will be confirmed in this House by this side of the House today. We have not released the Budget today. Once the Budget is released, I am happy to debate it with the member. I fear, though, that the member may have peaked too early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263ecddb873044d88bd884ad2e4cfaa3a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that she\u2019s been told by one of her Cabinet colleagues that every figure in this press statement\u2014by way of a release from the National Party\u2014on a supposed leak is wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ffba48ef7aa4dbfbd6b404ef8ee6599\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already said, the member has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a4ed1e1cb242f692a11fce7e53749b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Speakers\u2019 Rulings\u2014you know well\u2014make clear she has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac05a0e569864270963867624b964532\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to ask the Deputy Prime Minister to repeat the question because, as I heard it, it was in order. Repeat the question, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e7b0f3c91ba4c56b7271217beabeb21\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister, with respect to the statements which relate to these figures on this page\u2014a press statement alleging that a leaked document is in the possession of the National Party\u2014has she been told by one of her Cabinet colleagues that every figure, with regard to the statement on this document, is wrong? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4fd31073ab646ea8a55f3001361d60d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, there are a number of statements I\u2019ve seen by that member, and assumptions that he has made, that I absolutely refute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ecf6eaa372641af92e61673053ef2f9\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has her finance Minister offered his resignation, given the significance\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b399cc5026b447a951ca8ce8d5804d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, the member will resume his seat. Can I just ask members on my right to behave themselves. There will be a number of extra supplementaries as a result of their lack of control, and there\u2019s about five of them, all of whom I\u2019ve eyed who are on a last warning. No, not you, Mr Henare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249920c0da16e46c7b5d7610785048373\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I haven\u2019t finished the question. Has the finance Minister offered his resignation, given that Ministers in the last three Governments have for much less significant Budget irregularities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc12bdfafb7742d4b4688eac51b2c09d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226249bd22fc0e41b5b7e1bb65fe495353\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f25cb8624827457daf6f9decaf967a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f25cb8624827457daf6f9decaf967a5f\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he satisfied that the Government has properly managed its financial resources to meet the commitments made to the people of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002268dd923bf6284c1382782b1d179369bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268dd923bf6284c1382782b1d179369bf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5d382c44874676b5abf0bffaca4fb1\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a resourcing failure that led to sensitive Budget information, including annual appropriation information for 18 votes, being obtained and released by the National Party three days before Budget day? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d526dd869df469b9ee38db6bf2db4ac\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t believe so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d409adcb640458d83254c9ce2e852e6\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Will he, then, offer his resignation to the Prime Minister, as the then Minister of Finance, Roger Douglas, did in 1986 when sensitive Budget information was leaked before the Budget? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223590f0edf4d54265834aec292fb1ca22\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In my life, I have made it my ambition not to follow what Roger Douglas does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241faacd8d086444ea179d88c5da9f9fb\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he offer his resignation as other Ministers of Finance have done, when he\u2019s today confirmed that confidential and accurate Budget information has found its way to the Opposition three days before the Budget? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec31d32dacf0480bb68dc76d1b834c6c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise in that member\u2019s question. The Budget will be released on Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f6a24d4d2964d099010259d41023767\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Has he today confirmed to the media that some of the numbers released by the National Party today from Budget 2019 are, in fact, accurate? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1cd270b938847eab275281460d78495\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister and myself have confirmed to the media several times\u2014and the Prime Minister just did in this House\u2014that some of the information that has come out today is right and some of it is wrong. The Budget will be released on Thursday, and New Zealanders will be very pleased to see that, at least on this side of the House, we are focused on mental health, child wellbeing, improving M\u0101ori and Pasifika outcomes, and transforming the economy\u2014unlike the members on that side of the House, who are focused, squarely, internally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33ec6c3fe584d34a220770d0acdd31b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Given that he has confirmed to the media and to the House that accurate information has been released, are we to take it that this is what the Government meant when it promised to be the most transparent ever? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4b8ef9623d4a64a15041e6c8356e48\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I believe other things were meant by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c15f4866d55472493a2223a725a70ac\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u00228401a90389a248d5bc7e4981509b07d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228401a90389a248d5bc7e4981509b07d3\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What announcements has she recently made regarding young people in State care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1fc0e6e15f84c9493ea9ff4ee9d50e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1fc0e6e15f84c9493ea9ff4ee9d50e9\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E On Sunday, I announced that the Wellbeing Budget will fund a service to help young people who have been in care to make the transition to independence and adulthood. When most young people grow up and leave home they\u2019re lucky enough to do so when they feel ready, and knowing that they have support and a home to go back to. But for young people who leave State care, or the youth justice system, until now all too often their transition to the adult world has come too early, been too abrupt, and lacked support. If they\u2019ve done well, they\u2019ve done it all on their own. Too many have struggled, and that is wrong. That transition service, which has been sadly lacking, will start on 1 July and I\u2019m proud that we, the Government, are doing right by these young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5322a9c5954d7cab2edbb89daf687c\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How will the transition service work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4f32313ceca40d49c395eb16256d331\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: The heart of the new service sits around what young people said they wanted, the key thing being for someone to count on and who will listen and support and advise. So a new role\u2014transition support worker\u2014has been established. There will be 175 transition workers, largely employed by NGO and iwi providers, by the end of the four years. The other key area is that many young people in care build up really strong, loving family relationships with their caregivers. They often want to stay with those caregivers beyond their 18th birthday, and caregivers want them to. At the moment, the State does not support these arrangements to carry on. That will change in July. They can stay until they are 21, as part of this new service. There will also be 60 independent accommodation units for those that need a stepping stone between care placements and full independence, and, finally, we will create an advice and support service available to these young people up until the age of 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f617ba89acd4b4ba3c990f4a7ad9e4f\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Where did this idea for this service come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282e729ca6ec0427d8517dcd9ee226a01\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: From the care-experienced young people themselves, and based on their voice, established stronger transition support was a core recommendation of the Modernising Child, Youth and Family expert panel established in 2015. I\u2019m proud that this coalition Government took this recommendation and turned it into a reality. Oranga Tamariki has worked alongside care-experienced young people to design and plan a service to best meet the needs of young people just like them to transition successfully out of care. This work has been done over the last 18 months, but I acknowledge the work of the Hon Paula Bennett and the Hon Anne Tolley in the years prior to this, in setting the direction so that this Government can carry on now with the funding required and the operating model that needed to be put into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229950d931ee664dca8d97fd0adfefdcd4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002233f6b15a91634c4bb29c57377fd1fd93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233f6b15a91634c4bb29c57377fd1fd93\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How many KiwiBuild houses are either already completed or contracted and scheduled to be completed by 1 July 2019, and how many are already completed or contracted and scheduled to be completed by 1 October 2020?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002251d9a4aaa1364167af5cd4be6a3752d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251d9a4aaa1364167af5cd4be6a3752d8\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Two hundred and sixty-six, and 1,535 by July 2020, hence the reset. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a1ac9e6f324f02ac7251b52a8518b0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he announce within a month of becoming Minister that the Government would deliver 16,000 houses before the next election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be061a5f0252423b9283ac8f2bd39211\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think as the member knows, we\u2019ve made it very clear that we share everyone\u2019s disappointment with the disappointing numbers that KiwiBuild has achieved in the first year and half of the programme. We wished that those numbers were better, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re doing the reset. We are committed to improving the KiwiBuild policy, and we do not step away from our commitment to get more affordable homes built and to help young Kiwi families get into their own homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e31abdcb2f64cde8b72687c0d891bfb\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Did Cabinet agree to the target of 1,000 houses in the first year, 5,000 the next, and 10,000 the year after that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe9cd453d0954e66b1704ac461c8e0ae\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Those targets were set in the very, very early weeks of the Government, and I\u2019m pretty sure they were included in documents that were run by Cabinet, and Cabinet has been seized of those numbers and the progress of the KiwiBuild programme all the way along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7950487ed84f2da8c53360cdd73359\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: How many homes are under construction across the Government build programme, including KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022011b1623ae384241bac97db57d380b88\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There are approximately 2,500 State houses currently under construction, as well as nearly 400 KiwiBuild homes under construction. Consent data shows that across the build programme, Government agencies are now responsible for more new homes than at any time since the 1970s, and we make no apology for backing builders to build affordable homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef732aa906954bea8ec9074d4a125885\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he responsible for on the one hand suggesting the Government can deliver thousands of houses per year, and on the other hand now only being in a position to deliver around 1,500 during this term of Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022978ed4903aee49e597867388265a0f20\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, these policies, like all policies of the Government, are the collective responsibility of our Government, but as Minister I take responsibility for the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7703c43f9594b6cbca71b9f1e30b06f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still say \u201CSome of these kids at Treasury are fresh out of university and they\u2019re completely disconnected from reality.\u201D, as he did when they said that his targets weren\u2019t doable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce324d5ad91f4892b744e50f6c5ec272\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: They didn\u2019t actually say the targets weren\u2019t doable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ec41b3fb7df4265ac935fbd3c494b5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any reports or evidence on how the figures that he is using compare with the number of affordable homes built under the last Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20a847b1afb40a1ad8d307bcc600648\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I thank the member for that question, and as I said before, 1,535 homes are contracted to be delivered by July 2020. By coincidence, that happens to be the same number of homes that were not built under the former Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255551a0deae048c8a79abc2e64d01fe5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: How does his figure of around, now, 1,500 homes built in this term of Government compare to the around 45,200 homes built by the private sector in the last 18 months, very similar to what they did in the 18 months before that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea6eb6e81314f74b578f6accf47321b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I think the member will find that under our Government and under our policies, the private sector has been building more homes than at any time since 2007.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7d3e11b3de49e2b9445405b0f4e10f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Nope\u2014you\u2019re making that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db945351356434c85f94c442842b5d2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The key difference between then and now is that we\u2019re not privatising thousands of State houses; we\u2019re building thousands of new ones. We\u2019ve increased the investment in tackling homelessness, and we\u2019re building affordable houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a346bd8306f44e85aaeac54f56e47592\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I just want to ask Mr Brownlee to reflect on Speakers\u2019 ruling 42/1 before he makes that interjection again. I think he has been warned on it before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022443395c1a9de4cdcb536be3822bc92b4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022255ff879f9994bbab3f00fadcd2415ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022255ff879f9994bbab3f00fadcd2415ad\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Did Hon Shane Jones discuss with him the potential appointment of Mr Stan Semenoff to the New Zealand Transport Agency board; if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022dffa351086f9467cbc445a76b02de002\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dffa351086f9467cbc445a76b02de002\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Last June, at an event in Whangarei, Minister Jones introduced me to Mr Semenoff and suggested that Mr Semenoff was interested in being on the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) board. I had a brief informal chat with the NZTA chair about it, and the matter wasn\u2019t taken any further or given any more consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f679ec79bf745349d2bc00d8f77b36b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There were two parts to that question: if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8709df02c254b5abe364c1dbae099ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He said in June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273277a08e3044f4d8392fcfc3e049c35\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. Fair enough\u2014OK. I got too excited. Can he give the House categorical assurance that this was the only time he or someone from his office discussed the potential appointment of Stan Semenoff with either the Hon Shane Jones or someone from his office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca0acb4a5104422ba8f33fd014d53048\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ddee46dcb584062979d3a6a71eacc42\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the fact that he went on to discuss the potential appointment with the chair of NZTA indicate that he thought it was an appropriate suggestion from the Hon Shane Jones and an option worth investigating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1729fdf049431d80f5a9fd7f78f277\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9df40a48d3f4c0295c3aeb7e4ff2ec7\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Then why did he raise the matter with the chair of the NZTA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c799ed2e3c5c4619b7a377afe3343bb7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s always prudent to pass on information like that to the chair of the board when there are members who\u2019ve expressed interest in joining the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adbcbc1e50bc4fe49d9ba3746cf3e1d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister: is Mr Semenoff on the New Zealand Transport Agency board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226168221c36614c089df5adecf23cce81\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f32764efca4fe496eefefea6745db3\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: On what date did he discuss the potential appointment with the chair of the NZTA board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275dfaf72202844468ecb2b896de6555b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was no potential appointment. I don\u2019t have that date to hand, but if the member wants to put down a written question, I\u2019ll try and find it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c7516d4b8845889c9f03a126281097\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it\u2019s appropriate for a Minister to involve himself in an active NZTA investigation either by questioning the prosecution methods with the CEO or by seeking to have someone under investigation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c8db17a50344c6f9fa76660372b8136\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022969452170984481baec5b5bc2042f489\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. We\u2019ll wait till the question\u2019s finished. If it\u2019s a question of whether a question\u2019s in order or not\u2014it\u2019s a ruling I\u2019ve made a number of times\u2014I want to hear the question first. So, starting again, please, Mr Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ca917a22c74dc193775c0eb7d041b1\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it appropriate for a Minister to involve himself in an active NZTA investigation either by questioning the prosecution methods with the CEO or by seeking to have someone under investigation put on to the board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d38cd4a48cb4951aed446b22a7af743\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want a level of assurance that the member has authentication\u2014I don\u2019t want it now\u2014of the fact that the individual was under investigation and the Minister knew it at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6ffcc00e3324a7b9ab6606045b453fc\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we don\u2019t have any clarity on that. That\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c5d3d5819d4ee9bbc11dcfdf545cad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the trouble is that the member has made an assumption in his question. I\u2019ll give him a chance to reword it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e622828ca5441778fa451029eb29d34\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Would he think it appropriate for a Minister to involve himself in an active NZTA investigation either by questioning the prosecution methods with the CEO or by seeking to have someone under investigation put on to the NZTA board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f73922c09c843d58bb5b080b65b8fac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can answer the first and last bit of the question but not the intermediate bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280132e5c01cd4417a19f8f1c9bfc2ea9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s entirely hypothetical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c877299a9e643f5859e6ce620eb28a5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00228e4d1319a96649fea40d382eedbd8377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e4d1319a96649fea40d382eedbd8377\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Has the building of new classrooms in Auckland matched student roll growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcbe0c13fda748429ce28ca303d79315\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcbe0c13fda748429ce28ca303d79315\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E No. The combined peak rolls of the Auckland schools grew by 10,500 students between 2013 and 2017, but classrooms for only 9,000 additional student places were delivered over this time period. Our Government is committed to turning that around and ensuring we plan for population growth so that kids don\u2019t end up in overcrowded schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2db51fe73b45e29596448fde8981df\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How many years does it take to build a school?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b59a12a22e4621a66f5e7452d23430\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: It can take five to six years to deliver a new school, from acquiring the land, designing the school, procuring the construction, through to the build process itself. Unfortunately, the past practice of budgeting for only one year of new capital spending at a time has exacerbated this problem, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why this Government is moving towards a longer-term approach for planning for and funding school property works\u2014to get ahead of demand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282171096c4bf488cac3f0426ea11d7d5\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How many more children are estimated to be in schooling by 2030 in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c7c969512c4c228b4d0419e5f1566f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In Auckland alone, at the end of 2017 when we came into Government, we were advised that we needed an extra 60,000 student places for Auckland\u2019s education system by 2030. That\u2019s one of the reasons that the Government has developed and will shortly be announcing a comprehensive growth plan not just for Auckland but for all of the other parts of the country where population growth has not been adequately planned for in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022892c9e681a0e4633bb26500c7697ca8e\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a Cabinet paper called the Auckland Education Growth Plan from 2017, that sets out the long-term planning for Auckland, which he sat on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dda0910bd314b1d9899cff6e882bf01\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226c358988b3e4ddf80111a0dee07ce19\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a6a9cf515d84d66b256125cdfe96dc7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it on a website?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69225cb974542ff9113fa4b6d94a794\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be95122a2b9b47b0a9f34898a621a0ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t believe it is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f50b8351f2e4af2b9d0547d778cfee6\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe it is. It\u2019s been reported, but I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s on a website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb2e390983db48f784f2ede5c47418ce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s not been issued under the Official Information Act or anything like that? Well, it\u2019s simple\u2014I\u2019ll just put it. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8d77d91bc21418f97057ad737e755e1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a29969a04b0b46b6a6574e012f552b82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a29969a04b0b46b6a6574e012f552b82\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Botany)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What progress is being made to improve transport services in East Auckland, and will he commit to extending the Eastern Busway to Manukau via Te Irirangi Drive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00223a5d84cea8cf4a4ca2794392140d8278\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a5d84cea8cf4a4ca2794392140d8278\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Improving public transport both in Auckland and around our urban centres is a top priority of this Government. East Auckland has benefited already from Auckland Transport\u2019s new and improved bus network and has received two new bus services. I was also pleased to kick off construction of the Auckland-Manukau Eastern Transport Initiative (AMETI) Eastern Busway with Mayor Goff recently. It will be a dedicated, congestion-free busway that when completed will connected Panmure, Pakuranga, and Botany town centres through better connections, faster journey times, and giving people extra travel choices. I\u2019m also advised that Auckland Transport is currently undertaking the Airport to Botany Rapid Transit project business case for a new link between the airport, Manukau, and Botany. The business case is expected to be completed at the end of the year. As for extending the Eastern Busway to Manukau via Te Irirangi Drive, Auckland Transport has identified Te Irirangi Drive as the best and most direct route between Botany and Manukau, and I agree that it is the logical rapid transit corridor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffbc59897f314bc6b8db492897f39d6b\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will he ensure that the planning for a rapid transit corridor from Botany to the airport is prioritised so we don\u2019t have a repeat of the Eastern Busway situation, which will have taken 20 years from first being planned to its completion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e131632664c44a00aec16eb93df418fd\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is absolutely committed to extending the rapid transit network off which the entire public transport system in Auckland connects. So putting in place additional lines, including the city centre to M\u0101ngere, city centre to the north-west, and airport to Botany, are really important priorities, and we\u2019re going to do everything we can to expedite them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283192bb7578746cbb39f6850e18f1f1d\u0022\u003EJami-Lee Ross\u003C/span\u003E: Will he support a construction start date of 2025 for a Botany to airport rapid transit link, which is when the Eastern Busway project is expected to reach Botany and be completed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226952fd3257374030a63dd93f1f42c8b1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the member\u2019s concern on behalf of his electorate in this matter, but I think it would jumping the gun to make a commitment of that sort before the business case has been completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d84003fae1e42e0970baeba1dfc33a2\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the AMETI busway have on congestion in east Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b84ebbd9584b569724da313564966f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: East Auckland is the worst-served part of the Auckland region for public transport, making projects like the AMETI busway absolutely critical. The busway will make journeys around east Auckland faster and more reliable, journeys between Botany and Panmure 15 minutes faster, and allow peak-hour travel by bus and train between Botany and Britomart in less than 38 minutes. It will result in a congestion-free, high-frequency busway that will carry more than 7,500 passengers during peak hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f475acdf44be45e7aa8dc5da562a43da\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u002299643f39cfa34b2198304a3c8727cf2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299643f39cfa34b2198304a3c8727cf2f\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CFor the vast majority of teachers, that amounts to a $10,000 pay increase over two years, and that is a significant pay increase.\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00223473b0bcb5c946a5865c90c7534af408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223473b0bcb5c946a5865c90c7534af408\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. There are around 30,000 primary school teachers; 9,580 of them are on step 12, which is the maximum step for those with a subject degree and a teaching qualification. They\u2019ll get an increase of $9,532 over the term of the agreement. There are 8,724 teachers on step 11, which is the maximum step for a teacher with a teaching degree. Their pay will increase by $11,101 over the term of the agreement. This represents a pay increase, on average, of over $10,000 for the vast majority of primary school teachers. There are around 25,000 secondary school teachers; 15,172 of them are on the top step for those with a degree and a teaching qualification. They get an increase of $9,790 over the term of the agreement. There are 3,014 secondary teachers on the top step for those with a teaching degree, and they\u2019ll get an increase of $11,583. This represents a pay increase in the vicinity of $10,000 for the vast majority of secondary school teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225af47b0d76c44b2c96fa0b97f520bf9c\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the exact number of teachers being offered $10,000 or more through collective bargaining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7959fdcb91474aa41beec34c530b1c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think the member listened to the answer to the primary question, where I stepped all of that out in great detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ec40ebe27345e3afd5629a00fee3ee\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very specific question. There is an issue here of the Minister misleading the public, saying that teachers are getting $10,000 when they\u2019re getting under $10,000, and they have to pay tax on that and I\u2019m asking the Minister a very specific question about how many are getting $10,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9e667b435f482f9eb9652e2b0b6c6c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the Minister answered it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236ba6ded8b6b4f54a7a1790cc05eeec7\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the exact number of teachers getting $10,000 under the collective bargaining offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223263cda674184cdab43063284cad6283\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll happily run through the numbers again: 9,580 primary school teachers are on step 12. They will get an increase of $9,532. There are 8,724 primary teachers on step 11. They\u2019ll get a pay increase of $11,101. In terms of the 25,000 secondary school teachers, 15,172 of those teachers are on the top step for those with a degree and a teaching qualification; they get $9,790, and 3,014 of those secondary school teachers will get an increase of $11,583.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de4424f40b5d46d49afff09cb8a5beaf\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that when he said the vast majority of teachers were getting $10,000, he was misleading the public, and there are more than 24,000 teachers that are not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b69114b8fa654290bf5bc2f7c9969e38\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think I\u2019ve stepped through those numbers in great detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022714967e2668344c29af3435240666fa2\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the parents of secondary school teachers that are facing more than three days of potential strikes over the next five weeks, given that he has been misleading the public around what they\u2019re getting paid? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd851d6cda094c02bc22b708d24f6b58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8289d456904111b79b67adbfed08f9\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The issue that I have here is we have 50,000 teachers out there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6563a7e7224e308bb95cb8a304f608\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. That\u2019s not a point of order. If the member\u2019s not satisfied\u2014I didn\u2019t rule the question out. The Minister has to answer it, but I\u2019m not going to be responsible for her satisfaction with his answers. I mean, that would place me in an impossible position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c570dc4bb9dd42fb89a69825f11ca78c\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227218cc014aa645dc8992ac68c4620f92\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, hang on. The member can\u2019t have a point of order until the Minister\u2019s had an answer. The member\u2019s asked a question, a Minister is to answer it, and we\u2019ll see how we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c90b5839f32149b5b3488b2ba6ce33e3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I utterly reject the notion that I\u2019m misleading the public. I think that the answers that I\u2019ve just given the member demonstrate very clearly that what I\u2019ve been saying is absolutely, factually correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3660130562e4be09991d125c8ca409b\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: What is the time period for which teachers\u2014particularly primary school teachers\u2014have not had a pay rise, given the gridlock there has been in collective bargaining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1efa694d3a1413ab1e60a7edb198fa1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That depends, of course, whether it\u2019s primary or secondary school teachers, because their collective agreements expired at different times. They\u2019ve not had a pay increase since the last instalment of the last pay offer that they received. Their collective agreements expired last year, and they\u2019ve not had any further pay rises during that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aa318db5c794431b824c739f57dc92f\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How does the offer to primary and secondary school teachers compare with previous offers made over the last nine years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247a149951a8042858b78f0b297e10baa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Very good question. For the vast majority of teachers, of course, the offer is worth more than all of the settlements that were reached under the nine years of the last Government put together\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498a0c99510547f79142ffacfef87558\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Even with hearing aids, I had trouble hearing it. So I\u2019m going to\u2014no I\u2019m not because it\u2019ll\u2014[Interruption] We\u2019ll just\u2014Nikki Kaye.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62a1b39857343039f638fe678d3cf61\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: In light of his statement that he will not shift the envelope for around 50,000 teachers with regard to pay, when will he commit to significant additional funds to reduce teacher workload?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e7bfb609ccb42bbb64ed6752a44aaeb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Teacher workload isn\u2019t just about the amount of money that they get paid, of course. Many of the things that have contributed to teacher workload are things that this Government is addressing. We\u2019ve abolished national standards, for example, which the previous Government were advised would result in a significant increase in workload for no real increase in student achievement\u2014which is exactly what happened. The review of NCEA has made some quite concrete recommendations that will significantly benefit secondary school teachers\u2019 workload, particularly when it comes to assessment. I do acknowledge that it will take another couple of years before they see the advantages of that flowing through into their workload. There are a number of other areas of teacher workload which the Government is looking very closely at. For example, we acknowledge that there are more children in classrooms who have additional learning needs, or what we used to call special needs. It\u2019s one of the reasons why we committed last year to funding 600 additional learning support coordinators as a first instalment on the Government\u2019s overall commitment to put learning support coordinators in every school around the country. There are many things the Government is doing to address the workload that teachers are raising\u2014they don\u2019t all involve paying teachers more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e28207bfdd084364a5f181de4b6b4e65\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table information that demonstrates that the Minister\u2019s previous answer was incorrect. Actually, the collective agreement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e226eff477b4e25b44bdc89e7b7ebea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member knows that she describes the document, and that\u2019s all, without the commentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7c60bd662d4f5da4dcf9d0fabe077a\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table the previous collective agreement from 2015, which indicates that the expiration was actually in 2017, not last year as he previously quoted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a253867a04b42bf8929af623e4493cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection\u2014no, hang on. The collective agreement\u2019s on a whole pile of websites, so I\u2019m not going to put it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7e9ece78a7d4a259af6fc7126898856\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022465786b19bf64468bca933c29654c22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022465786b19bf64468bca933c29654c22a\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: What recent announcement has he made regarding the Human Rights Review Tribunal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u002295d8e9f7fb584a7684c337a8fcba42c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295d8e9f7fb584a7684c337a8fcba42c0\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa i lau Afioga, Mr Speaker. Last week, I announced the appointment of five deputy chairpersons to the Human Rights Review Tribunal, which aims to reduce the case backlog in waiting times before the tribunal. All of the five appointees have extensive litigation and public law experience and, collectively, bring together a strong set of skills to the tribunal. The five deputy chairs are Katherine Anderson and Gillian Goodwin of Auckland, and Martha Coleman, Sarah Eyre, and Jane Foster of Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9b7ea6367064937b748c5436b8fd65f\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why was it necessary to appoint deputy chairpersons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1b75e5908a420f89bcc27ddbcf1f95\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Under the previous National Government, we know that between the 2015 and 2016-17 financial years, the number of new cases received by the tribunal grew by 92 percent. This led to the backlog of cases growing by 144 percent, and means that people are waiting two years for a hearing and up to three years for a decision. This Government has taken action and has listened to the concerns of the public by making law changes to enable deputy chairs to be appointed, which will ease the case backlog of the tribunal and provide the public with greater access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225760f3ee03464dafbb6729221a4ee8c0\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How will this change work in practice at the tribunal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d9f6e35a9f04bbeb783ea26f644f705\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO\u003C/span\u003E: Lau Afioga ile Fofoga Fetalai. Previously, the chairpersons were required to preside at all Human Rights Review Tribunal sittings and had all the responsibility for writing decisions. The changes this Government made will enable deputy chairpersons to share the decision-making and decision-writing duties of the tribunal. The additional improvements we\u2019ve now made to the operational work of the tribunal give me confidence that we can improve the experience of people using the tribunal and ensure that justice is not denied by a lack of judicial resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b075062d11c6407c844e09ed754895cd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad28d7d7ee44c17b6824dd19517643d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad28d7d7ee44c17b6824dd19517643d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he agree with Dunedin North MP David Clark, who said in 2017, \u201CDistrict Health Boards this year needed at least $650 million to stand still but they are over $200 million short of what they need\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c429a54ac202488e881b65e9f9413294\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c429a54ac202488e881b65e9f9413294\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. Because the previous Government systematically underfunded health and left behind it a legacy of overstretched services struggling to cope with a growing and ageing population; of underpaid and undervalued doctors, nurses, and allied health workers; and of ageing hospital infrastructure, including leaky buildings and facilities that are no longer fit for purpose, the answer is yes. This Government has begun the long process of rebuilding our health services, but we have always said it will take more than one Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c67027d20ce4bafaf1e83332f43902d\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Was he, therefore, disappointed that the $744 million he succeeded in securing for district health board (DHB) cost pressures in Budget 2019 comprises just $94 million more than Dr Clark said was needed two years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d555663f9a433daccc1cfdc93efea8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait till Budget day for the real picture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228247267be50340449248c0de7f824a96\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that, with DHBs heading for combined deficits of $500 million or more, the Budget 2019 appropriation of $744 million for DHB cost pressures will fail to keep most DHBs out of deficit next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cb3b3e8e9c34d9aac281c15a661bdc7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The current combined forecast deficit of the DHBs is $372 million and is a direct legacy of years of under-investment in health by the previous Government. I can\u2019t give the member any forecasts for the year ahead, because, of course, annual planning processes are still in train, but it\u2019s my clear expectation that DHBs demonstrate that they have a plan to return to financial stability while, at the same time, continuing to deliver the services that New Zealanders expect and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210053ef18e4d4851ae8c0e750174f264\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is it expected that the $744 million for DHBs will cover the coalition agreement\u2019s commitments on a free annual health check for seniors, given that the Budget 2019 information does not have that as a separate initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aab4f381fbd41eba20ef30e72fe8909\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have to wait for Budget day for the real picture, but what I can tell him is that, since we took office, there are 1,300 more nurses in this country working in our DHB system. We have reduced the cost of visiting the doctor for community services cardholders by an average of $20 to $30 for 540,000 people. We have rolled out nurses in schools to decile\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f08f2a1aa701444da8e8d7ce42ef92b6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfbe041d8e744d13be55074d5f9ce453\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has he heard today from New Zealand Council of Trade Unions (CTU) economist Bill Rosenberg, who called for our operating expenditure to increase by nearly double the $744 million, expressing his disappointment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289079f7d18034bc6b4fd8bf3940f9067\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I have not looked in detail at the CTU\u2019s most recent analysis. However, I do know that it has consistently shown that health has been underfunded over the last decade. This Government is committed to better resourcing sustainably funded health services, but, as I have said many times, it will take time to make up for nine long years of neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022178ae6963eb64d1cbb2c08eca9360ef2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022 data-id=\u00224824be2c4071441a9a914db186036810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224824be2c4071441a9a914db186036810\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER (National\u2014Clutha-Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied an appropriate standard of maternity care is available to keep mothers and new babies safe in northern Southland following a region-wide review of maternity services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00224dcafae511a841549fc2c23b4fa1d141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dcafae511a841549fc2c23b4fa1d141\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Given the strength of community feeling on this matter, I asked the Ministry of Health experts to review the Southern District Health Board\u2019s (DHB\u2019s) decisions, to provide me with assurance that mothers and babies will continue to receive the high-quality care that they deserve. I received that assurance. I\u2019m aware of concerns from the community that Southern DHB has yet to fully implement the new model of care, as promised. I\u2019ve discussed these concerns with DHB leadership and made my expectations clear that where there is evidence the standard of care is falling short, the DHB must take action. It\u2019s my intention to discuss these matters further with the DHB until I\u2019m satisfied they are delivering the high-quality maternity care expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274eef6ca99d049978cf06db2ec95df3c\u0022\u003EHamish Walker\u003C/span\u003E: What actions, if any, did he take after my letter, dated 9 May 2019, outlining my grave concerns regarding the incredibly high risks to the northern Southland community, as the Lumsden and Te \u0100nau maternal hubs weren\u2019t up and running nearly a month after they were promised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac1999821b5545a0a64f6ae5eb3ac654\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: This is a matter that I have been interested in and following closely for some time. I am very keen to make sure\u2014have been keen to make sure\u2014that I had the reassurance that mothers and babies would continue to receive the high-quality care they deserve. I have received representations from Mark Patterson and Liz Craig, concerned local MPs. In respect of his particular letter, I have taken no action whatsoever because it has not raised anything new for me. There was some degree of hyperbole in it, but I have taken the concerns seriously, as they have been raised with me. I\u2019ve discussed those concerns with the DHB leadership and made my expectations clear that where there is evidence the standard of care is falling short, the DHB must take action. If the member is suggesting that the new model of care being rolled out across Clutha-Southland and the Waitaki, which is indeed delivering more services to more people, should be rolled back and that, indeed, we should return to the situation under the National Government where there were fewer services for those constituencies, I wish him well at the next election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b187b2fabc234f12b5318490915ae1eb\u0022\u003EHamish Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the chief executive of the Southern DHB that it is quite acceptable for rural mums to have their babies in an ambulance on the side of the road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d727f553dea549d887a540ede35aae9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised by the Southern District Health Board that a mother safely gave birth in the excellent care of a midwife and a St John ambulance crew member in a well-equipped ambulance en route to Southland Hospital. I\u2019m pleased the mother and baby are doing well. It would seem that the system of care worked appropriately in this circumstance, but I\u2019m pleased that the DHB is reviewing the incident.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268499bb64f9641cc87833079d7c0835c\u0022\u003EHamish Walker\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government commit to reopening the Lumsden maternity hospital after the close call at the weekend, with a mum giving birth on the side of the road, in this week\u2019s Budget focused on wellbeing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b5edc23c6246ecafbc33a8173ac8b3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I do reject the assertions in that member\u2019s question. The Ministry of Health has assured me that the Southern DHB has met the requirements of the service coverage schedule for maternity care. In designing Southern DHB\u2019s integrated primary maternity care system of care and maternal and child hubs, I\u2019m confident that the Southern DHB has designed a good system of maternity care across its district. The result is five maternal and child hubs, including new services in Te \u0100nau and W\u0101naka, six birthing units, and two tertiary and secondary services. I\u2019m disappointed that not all of the new services have been fully rolled out yet. I\u2019ve made that disappointment clear to the DHB, and I\u2019ve asked them to provide me with assurances that those services will be fully in place soon and a detailed time line. The chief executive has assured me that they are continuously monitoring the implementation of this service and are working closely with the Ministry of Health on the matter. I will be holding the chair of the DHB or the commissioner accountable for delivering what has been promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a0b2920ddb4113b544830b151c6f7b\u0022\u003EHamish Walker\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very, very simple: will this Government reopen the Lumsden maternity hospital\u2014yes or no? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b13007f0b337442a8e1ed2cd9db5ed45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member\u2019s a relatively new but not an absolutely new member, and he should know that members can\u2019t insist on yes or no answers to questions. As to whether the question was addressed or not, then I think\u2014it\u2019s a bit like an earlier one\u2014it could well have been over-addressed. Speakers\u2019 ruling 171/4 is the Speakers\u2019 ruling that he should have a look at to educate himself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6337ad2950040868e115b46740a9b5f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Just to clear up the details, Minister: was the birth in question on the side of the road or in an ambulance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aeaec3daa2e4fe39b832b12f71d70d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m advised that the birth took place in an ambulance with support, as appropriate. Clearly, the midwife herself had chosen to go to a secondary facility beyond the Lumsden suite, because she had made a clinical decision. I support her clinical decision. She had, clearly, the best interests of the mother at heart, and it\u2019s pleasing to see that the right decisions were taken and that the mother and baby are safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291501c18bbb34c92b2c2f823ee3ac395\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270faaf95e9994635b71af49348ca9536\u0022\u003EEarlier Personal Explanation\u2014Correction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022473b66e878494ec2836102d21c3dc65b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022473b66e878494ec2836102d21c3dc65b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d828b540f58f452d9ac1086649d3412a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca2b26bfc9b4264a223cbf5d1010754\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b26d1c232947ffadde295c7207d8ae\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Relating to a personal explanation I gave last week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022403ea5f84eee424795ec643c56640947\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member has sought the leave of the House to make a personal explanation which relates to the personal explanation he made in the House last week. I just say to members that it is very unusual to deny a member the right to make a personal explanation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f205dd2cd8e04a62ab9e6566df875324\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe63f211e98e45e8b5fbd0b0c69fda79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Chris Hipkins, before I put the matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0e5a6aed1e421882e5751d68047d9d\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, absolutely, and it is very unusual to deny a member a right to make a personal explanation, because it is important that where a member feels they have been misrepresented, they are able to set the record straight on that. However, if a member does that and does not fully tell the truth in that and then seeks to subsequently correct it again, that\u2019s going to bring the whole process into disrepute. Members have to have the opportunity to correct where they\u2019re misrepresented, but not to make a political statement which they then try to recant from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263074c80fdd34c5aada8861a4b7955a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What we have generally done as a House in the past, when and if people wanted to make corrections to statements that they had made to the House in whatever circumstance\u2014and I can think of only one example, and it involved myself and I was wrong\u2014we have given leave for that to occur, because, generally, as a House, we have felt that it\u2019s important that members have the opportunity to set the record straight and have it accurate in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed7fc8891e3244d6b71a68548039fa70\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek some clarification here, because if this is an explanation that is subsequent to a complaint on a privileges matter, then at that point, one has to ask whether this member is entitled to seek this refuge or, rather, give an explanation to the Privileges Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f9416129b994d2ebc670f47f582e829\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: There have been many members who are sitting in the House today who have made personal explanations to clarify situations where there could have been a matter of privilege raised potentially, but what is important is that every member has the right to ask for the indulgence of the House to make a personal statement, and it should be up to the member to determine whether or not the matter they want to raise before the House is appropriate for the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9678c7ee69f4356961409b1f9b1b30e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking further to the point of order, Mr Speaker, where a member seeks to make a personal explanation that, therefore, makes it clear that a personal explanation they had earlier given was not true, is that member still able to be referred to the Privileges Committee for the abuse of the process in the earlier personal explanation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040b4d7a576d4931b99fd9cd42b73d94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that is they certainly could be, but I will remind members that the test for reference to the Privileges Committee is relatively high, in that it involves, I think\u2014the Deputy Prime Minister will probably correct me if I\u2019ve got it wrong\u2014mens rea: it\u2019s got to be deliberate. So if a letter is before me, and that\u2019s something which, of course, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on now, correcting it would be a factor I would take into account. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268509acde5634267986e8bc1a691c596\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. At question time on Thursday last week, I made a personal explanation that rejected the police Minister\u2019s statement that I had said police were bullying people. I accept that, in response to an interjection from the floor at the meeting we are talking about, I did make that comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c4a7c0aef5c48579465022e4db32456\u0022\u003ERacing Reform Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfbdd09df19d4a81b14f9b4de5aedabd\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00229f1e9ec649da413f979f23276268b523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f1e9ec649da413f979f23276268b523\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the Racing Reform Bill be reported to the House by 11 June 2019 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I say, Mr Speaker, that I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House, as I said, by 11 June 2019, and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81d884e67814ebf982e7e30d331b1a6\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It comes later. Do that later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebde388def454347af34efdf92662223\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). For translation, legally, of that, Mr Brownlee, I\u2019m happy to come over and give him some advice later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268dcc2212ef34e13b6cd5cc60c8a9023\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! There\u2019s just a couple of vital words: \u201CI move the first reading of the bill\u201D I think needs to be said, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279c6e389c0b9416b9d2de8861b112b64\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m getting to it. I move, That the Racing Reform Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ERacing in New Zealand has a long and proud history. It\u2019s part of our culture, our history, and our traditions. Racing clubs and their facilities are often local focal points in the community, playing an important role beyond the races themselves, and the racing industry is an important part of New Zealand\u2019s economy, particularly in the regions, contributing $1.6 billion in the year 2016 to 2017. However, the New Zealand racing industry is in decline and the economic benefits New Zealand receives from it are at risk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d516d3875a54b55873c62dabc1a20b5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry to interrupt the member, but if the group who are having a hui in the aisle there could take their hui out into the lobbies, please. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4d0f08bcf84cbea0f7cecce57b2660\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, it\u2019s only a hui \u201Cno matter\u201D. It is in New Zealand\u2019s interests to revitalise this industry. Its success will lead to increased employment opportunities, support for communities, and an increase in the industry\u2019s contribution to the economy. In April 2018, the Government commissioned Mr John Messara, an Australian thoroughbred racing expert, to conduct an independent high-level assessment of the state of New Zealand\u2019s racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn August 2018, Mr Messara\u2019s report was released. He confirmed that the industry is at a tipping point and that without urgent intervention the industry is at risk of suffering irreparable damage. The public has been consulted on the Messara report, with submitters being generally supportive of the report\u2019s overall direction. Late last year, the Government also appointed a ministerial advisory committee to provide a further stream of advice on the Messara report. The ministerial advisory committee in its interim advice expressed support for the proposals contained within this bill. It\u2019s this bill that is taking a phased approach to responding to Mr Messara\u2019s findings, which includes the on-going work of the ministerial advisory committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis bill forms the Government\u2019s first legislative response to the recommendations of the Messara report. It amends the Racing Act 2013 and the Gaming Duties Act 1971, and will implement some of Messara\u2019s key recommendations. The Government intends to follow this bill with a second bill later this year, to build upon the initial reforms implemented by this bill. In order to drive the immediate change required for the industry, this bill reconstitutes the New Zealand Racing Board as the Racing Industry Transition Agency or, in short, RITA. RITA will have a changed membership and new transitional powers to enable the changes needed to move to the financially sustainable future that the Messara report envisaged. RITA will manage the transition and day-to-day operations of the industry for a limited period\u2014and for those who know something about racing, it will make one huge difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e624e148431448b19099bd5e5057a058\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, it won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022219a267039ae4c8183f7d183a64681e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because Messara is an expert and the protester over on the other side, in the form of Mr Brownlee, knows nothing whatsoever about racing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThese reforms are focused on increasing the financial sustainability of the racing industry. One way this bill will achieve this is by two offshore charges that will be implemented: an information-use charge and a point-of-consumption charge. Currently, unlike the New Zealand-based provider, overseas betting operators aren\u2019t required to contribute to the cost involved in conducting racing and sports in New Zealand. These offshore charges will ensure that overseas betting operators start to contribute to New Zealand, including to the racing and sports codes from which they benefit. This bill will also allow betting on sports not currently represented by a qualified domestic national sporting organisation and will place the formula for calculating payments to sporting organisations into regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s worth noting that these financial proposals were considered during the select committee stage of the previous Racing Amendment Bill in 2017. Apparently, they were thought back then to be worth it, when they were in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022192818b98b4f4942af96eb48cf28ee2c\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce3b565b7f1454f98408c65f49c21a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: So when somebody makes that sort of speech\u2014I\u2019m able to write my own speech, unlike that member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5344cad39f473e90c756dda4f0be9d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he clearly can\u2019t remember it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022499c29a436914db0ab93a1e303a80dd4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That bill was withdrawn last year. Now, Mr Brownlee, bombast and behaving like a buffoon doesn\u2019t cut it in this Parliament, and that\u2019s why he\u2019s on the second row. He\u2019ll be on the third row, shortly, and then out the door. This bill was withdrawn last year as it was prudent that its proposals be considered in the context of the wider reforms recommended by Mr Messara. The ministerial advisory committee has recommended and reconfirmed that the need to have these provisions in the bill are part of wider changes to reform the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis bill will also progressively repeal and replace the totalisator duty, which is currently paid to the Crown over three years. These funds will instead be reinvested to the racing and sport sectors. A proportion of those funds will also be set aside\u2014because we are a responsible Government\u2014for industry-related gambling harm minimisation programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAs indicated, the Government intends to introduce a second Racing Amendment Bill later this year. This will build upon these initial reforms by establishing the future governance structure for New Zealand racing and will implement the other agreed recommendations from the Messara report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe intend to tell the racing industry, right around this country, in respect to these deliberations, what their representatives in Parliament think. We need the racing industry, all around New Zealand, to know that this great industry\u2014which has an enormous capacity to triple its exports and to do so much more in respect to the welfare in this country and to give so many employment opportunities in the main to so many young people\u2014is a serious consideration and priority of this present Government. We intend to tell them, and very clearly, that they should hang on for a bit longer, because hope\u2019s on its way and so is help. We have a chance to build a great industry that will deliver for all New Zealanders, and this bill is a first step in that process. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002292a685e9bd18462cb5e7d0c80f6b0848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292a685e9bd18462cb5e7d0c80f6b0848\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The National Party will support this bill to first reading, and I\u2019ll discuss those factors a little later on. I just wanted to broadly outline the racing industry and the state it\u2019s in, as I see it. The racing industry\u2019s very important to rural New Zealand, with many communities still vitally involved in their local racing clubs. It\u2019s equally as important to the New Zealand economy as a whole. Thoroughbreds, harness, and the greyhound racing sectors are all critical components of a great day out. Local communities are also very involved in the racing-club - owned properties where a huge variety of events take place in many communities from Saturday morning sport, Country Women\u2019s Institutes, school events, pony clubs, and many, many other community activities\u2014all hugely valued by their respective communities, as are those properties that belong to that sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe Minister referred to the Messara report. Last year, the Minister engaged the leading Australian racing administrator and stud master, John Messara, to provide a report on the state of the New Zealand racing industry. He provided a pretty comprehensive report, much of which we support, some of which makes us nervous, and some of which we won\u2019t support in the future. Some of the recommendations of that report are included in this bill; some of the recommendations will be included in legislation to come to the House a little later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe Racing Amendment Bill, introduced by the Hon David Bennett late in 2017, was considered by the Primary Production Committee early in 2018. It contained many of the recommendations encompassed in this bill, and had it been passed at the time, the racing industry would have been some $16 million better off. If it had been passed at the time, parts of this bill that weren\u2019t included in that bill could easily have been included in a further bill introduced to the House, as this one has been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I want to refer to some of the features of the Racing Reform Bill. The first one is the transitional governance arrangements, or the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA), which is, effectively, going to replace the Racing Industry Board, which has been governing the industry since 2002. RITA is put in place to run the industry and to implement changes which are put in place by this bill. The Racing Industry Transitional Authority will be replaced in a second piece of legislation to follow later in the year; its term running out on 30 June 2020. This is one of the problems or one of the challenges that we find in supporting this bill, in that that authority is appointed by the Minister and can be appointed, effectively, by the Minister in perpetuity, if the second part of the legislation doesn\u2019t take place. So, effectively, we\u2019re placing an industry in the control of a Minister of the Crown. I hope that this will meet with much debate at select committee. I want to make the point that we think this is unsatisfactory. At the same time, we have complete confidence in the ability and the quality of the six members of the Racing Industry Transitional Authority that the Minister intends to appoint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe piece that we wholeheartedly do support in this bill relates to the offshore charges, betting information use charge, and point of consumption charges. This is, effectively, the same piece of legislation that I referred to earlier, introduced to the House some nearly two years ago by the Hon David Bennett. The delay has, effectively, as I said, cost the industry an amount estimated in excess of $16 million. We support this piece of the bill. It, effectively, provides a basis for collecting revenue from offshore betting operators who provide betting services to New Zealanders. That is significant\u2014it could be more significant, the amount of money I\u2019ve talked about, actually; it\u2019s significantly used by New Zealanders and it\u2019s certainly something that needs to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe next issue I want to touch on is the totalisator duty repeal. This repeals the betting levy, which will mean some $13.9 million, on current estimates, being returned to the sporting and racing sectors on a pro rata basis, with at least a portion put into the gambling harm prevention services. This happens over a three-year time frame and, again, creates some considerable concern for us as there are no legislative pieces to this bill which will distribute those funds in a regulated manner. They will be regulated, and those funds will then be distributed on the basis of that regulation. We feel that\u2019s also a little unsatisfactory, as it\u2019s not as transparent as it could be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to briefly talk about the change to the distribution of racing and sports revenue. This, effectively, takes the distribution formula\u2014well, it\u2019s in fact the racing revenue\u2014from section 16 out of the Racing Act 2003, and allows the application and distribution of racing funds to be determined by regulations. Now, I\u2019m relatively confident that the three sectors will come to an agreement on this; none the less, if they don\u2019t, it again creates risk for those sectors. So a lot of discussions have taken place in the industry over this potential change to the legislation, and I think it will be interesting to see where that gets to. Again, it\u2019s a concern for us as to just how that is applied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to turn now to sports betting which allows the relevant body, the TAB\u2014and I\u2019ll turn to the TAB again a little later\u2014or the Racing Industry Board (RIB) through its agency, the TAB, to offer betting products on sports not represented by a qualifying domestic national sporting organisation, provided an agreement is in place with Sport New Zealand. Now, I think the challenge we have with this is that, again, it\u2019s going to be subject to regulation. Whether the sporting bodies will receive the amount of money that we feel they should be entitled to or, in fact, that they feel they\u2019re entitled to, will be a subjective matter, and, I think, a matter of concern to them all. I have no doubt my colleagues will address that further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ECurrently, the Act has a detailed explanation of how those formulas are calculated. That\u2019s being abandoned in the course of this piece of legislation, and that\u2019s the challenge we face with it. We\u2019ll need to be satisfied that sporting bodies are not short-changed by the changes to the distribution of racing sports revenue, outlined in clause 13 of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI want to refer back to the Messara report and the relationship between the codes, because the Messara report did concentrate on the thoroughbred industry to a large extent and that was the subject of some initial concern amongst the racing codes. Having got through a lot of discussion on that, and some 1,600 or 1,700-odd submissions on that fact, I think that the codes are relatively comfortable with where they\u2019ve got to. None the less, they\u2019ll need to be comfortable with this piece of legislation as it comes out of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee and the following piece of legislation to be sure of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI said earlier I\u2019d refer to the TAB, and I want to refer to it briefly because I\u2019ve been around the racing industry for a long, long time and, in all the time I\u2019ve been involved in that industry, there has been discussion about the ownership of the TAB. I\u2019m pretty sure that\u2019s not going to be resolved by this piece of legislation. None the less, that does create some of the complication in this legislation because I think that\u2019s where the discussion, or the nervousness around the sporting bodies, comes from, because, effectively, the TAB was formed by an Act of Parliament but it was formed under the structure of the racing industry\u2019s joint bodies many years ago\u2014I can\u2019t remember the exact date. I think that that is a challenge that the TAB and the industry have constantly faced and it\u2019s a challenge that makes, I think, the sporting sector nervous as to just where that might get to. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that it\u2019s detailed in whatever comes back to Parliament in the future. I don\u2019t propose that we try to resolve the ownership the TAB, because I think that\u2019s taking it a little too far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E Finally, I want to make reference to the current members of the Racing Industry Board. They faced a very challenging time in recent years and I think have come out of that challenging time in pretty good shape. I think they\u2019ve started some work that, no doubt, the Racing Industry Transition Agency will carry on to a large extent, but, none the less, the industry has been challenged by a number of factors, not the least of which is the large amount of money going offshore in betting. I think that the RIB, or the members of the Racing Industry Board, have done a pretty good job and I think they could be well-satisfied as they hand over, at the time this bill sets in place, to the RITA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EFinally, I just thought it was ironic that you\u2019re referring a bill to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. It\u2019s a long, long time\u2014probably the Minister might remember\u2014since horses were used for transport in New Zealand. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5462aba2a2b4f6c8c7ef4058379ed60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5462aba2a2b4f6c8c7ef4058379ed60\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Assistant Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to the first reading of the Racing Reform Bill. If anything is needed in the racing sector it is certainly reform and it\u2019s well overdue, so can I congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister for getting this bill to the House. My understanding of the sector, as a previous spokesperson in Opposition, is that they will be very ecstatic about the fact that this piece of legislation has arrived in the House, that it is comprehensive in the nature of the many challenges that racing, the totalisator, and also that the sporting codes that are encompassed within this bill, face at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some interesting and creative historiography about the challenges and some of the solutions that were proffered up by the previous Government. I couldn\u2019t have put it better than the previous speaker, Ian McKelvie, himself that the previous Government introduced the bill in the dying days of the last Government, which is to show the priority that they gave to this industry. I think it\u2019s also notable that they\u2019re also being a little bit sticks-in-the-mud about some of the details of this bill that will be pointed towards regulation, because one of the challenges that the sector faces is actually being nimble. The ability to have some of these changes that are proposed in the bill, within regulations, will help that sector, which has historically found it very hard to change its ways, to be nimble in a market that is always changing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo can I congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister for getting this bill to the House. It\u2019s taken 18 months and, I guess, when you look at the challenges that have been facing the industry and the sector for some time, and the lack of action by the previous Government, I think that the sector will be very happy with the speed and the rate of knots at which this has been brought to the House, and the strong leadership that the Deputy Prime Minister has brought to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESome of the issues that the sector faces\u2014if we\u2019re looking at racing clubs themselves\u2014is some of the aging infrastructure within the club itself, and struggles and challenges within prize money for races. That then has a flow-on effect towards breeding and races themselves, and our ability to support an export market that is there. Mr McKelvie also pointed towards some of the challenges that were contained in the bill, in 2017, which we are dealing with here in a pragmatic way to ensure that revenue is gained from some of those bookies overseas, who are using races and sports based here in New Zealand to take bets on. The practice in the past was that no revenue has come to New Zealand as a result of those races and sports events being bet on by overseas punters. That will change in this piece of legislation. Also, an issue that has challenged the TAB and the Racing Industry Board for some time is the increased amount of betting that is happening by New Zealanders on offshore platforms for races and sports that are happening offshore, and that revenue has been lost to New Zealand. So an attempt within this bill to make sure a portion of that revenue stays in New Zealand, supports the New Zealand racing industry, and supports New Zealand sports codes, I think is extremely welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAnother thing that I think some of the members across the House have reacted to was the TAB levy. That will be reduced, and I understand that over the three years it will mean that something close to $14 million will be able to be injected back into the sector. Now, as I said, some of those racing clubs that have been struggling for prize money to promote themselves and to be able to get high-quality horses into fields, into their races, will welcome that reinvestment into their clubs and into the sector in general. But, I think, importantly, as the Deputy Prime Minister pointed out, there are social issues that we need to address within that as well, and a portion of that levy funding that will be going back into the sector will be sectioned aside to deal with some of the problem gambling issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo I think this is a great piece of legislation. It\u2019s well overdue, and I think, as you\u2019ve seen from the Deputy Prime Minister, there is some urgency to this, because the sector has wanted action for some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc9386e5238b4f3abb7c668c11679329\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve been blocking it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a65936d4d1545f0ad88a6fcf550675d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: So I\u2019m going to be very interested\u2014what\u2019s the problem with that, Mr Smith?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af19137b1a84d3193778e90054e7485\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve been sitting on a bill for 18 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf821b6d996428b840cc5ac7914367c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u201418 months, compared to nine years. I was baiting Mr Smith to say that, because the previous Government sat on it for nine years. It took us 18 months, because by the time we got into office, issues weren\u2019t dealt with so much that we needed to have another review because things had progressed so far down the track. We\u2019ve got a comprehensive review by Mr Messara and a comprehensive piece of legislation. So I\u2019m going to be very interested to hear some of the contributions from the other side of the House, who introduced\u2014again, to the point that Mr Smith made\u2014a bill in the dying hours of the last Parliament and furiously tried to get the Opposition to try to help, but they couldn\u2019t even prioritise it within their own Order Paper. So that shows the lack of commitment from the other side of the House and the good work that has been done in the short period of time on this side of the House to make sure that our racing codes and our sporting codes will be futureproofed to make sure that they get the revenue that they need to survive and prosper. I support this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022f80f19a8897b45819d710f2db95c8ccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f80f19a8897b45819d710f2db95c8ccc\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I am pleased to take a call on this bill. Firstly, at the outset, can I acknowledge the work of previous spokespeople within National on legislation improvements in terms of the racing industry. I want to acknowledge that we are supporting this bill, but as our sport and recreation spokesperson, I want to put a really major warning shot to the Deputy Prime Minister. The reality is that we have real concerns about the impact on national sporting codes, and I\u2019m going to outline them in my speech. I also want to address this issue of the timing. It is clear\u2014and I have met with Ian McKelvie, our spokesperson, and, for instance, the Auckland Racing Club\u2014that there does need to be change. I want to acknowledge the huge amount of work that the Messara report has done in terms of the racing industry. That is why we are supporting this bill through to the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut we want to make a couple of things really clear. The first is: this is a shonky process. We have a very short time period for this bill, and there are going to be sporting codes out there, and mums and dads who care about rugby and cricket and netball, that are going to be asking the question: why are we taking a short couple of weeks on a bill that may impact thousands and thousands of kids who play sport, because of the impact to the national sporting codes? So as I said before, I do want to make a shout-out to the racing industry and say: look, National is really clear. We do support change. We do recognise the work of the Messara report. But because of the complex issues in some elements around what it means for the sporting industry, what it means for communities in terms of the racing board, what means in terms of that balance around gambling and, obviously, some of the social harm, we would ideally not be in this situation where we are dealing with a rushed bill in a truncated process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what I want to specifically go through\u2014and I have gone back to, for instance, Netball New Zealand\u2019s submission to the racing review, whereby they have raised several concerns. I have been on the phone to sporting organisations. Over the coming couple of weeks, not only will we be, hopefully, getting submissions from them, if people can make the time to be able to be in Parliament, but I will be going out as National\u2019s sports spokesperson to raise the issue of certainty of funding for the national sporting codes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to address that. Firstly, I think they will be very clear publicly that the process, whether it\u2019s been through the Messara review or through consultation with Sport New Zealand, has not been ideal, and to now have this two weeks at the end of it is a major issue. The second issue is this fairness of the proposed distribution models. I have been, obviously, liaising with these sporting organisations, and one of the core issues here is the cost to New Zealand sports, who carry the production of an event, not being recognised against offshore product that comes into the market at no cost of production, including fair recognition of the value of their intellectual property. I am reading that from something that I have received from them. There are major issues of uncertainty by ensuring that some of these things are worked through regulation rather than having that upfront certainty that we had previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ENational will be very clear. We are going to be very clear to New Zealand over the coming weeks: there must be no net loss to national sporting codes\u2014that\u2019s rugby, that\u2019s cricket, that\u2019s football, that\u2019s basketball\u2014as a result of this bill. I want to ask the question: where is the Minister of sport? Where has he been while this review has been consulted on? We\u2019ve had submissions from the national sporting codes. It is very important. We have been very clear that, while we are supporting the first reading, we have major issues when it comes to the sporting organisations, and we are going to need to get that clear\u2014and I do put a plea to the Deputy Prime Minister. It would be really helpful if we could have a very clear statement from the Deputy Prime Minister or the Minister for Sport and Recreation that no national sporting code will lose, and, ideally, we\u2019d get greater certainty around the funding formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to make another couple of other comments in terms of racing. Again, this issue does relate to what the sporting codes have said to me in terms of their submissions. They did raise a number of issues around the governance structure of the New Zealand Racing Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAgain, it\u2019s this issue that we\u2019re not recognising the actual contribution of the sporting sector adequately. If you look back in 2003 and you actually look at the New Zealand Racing Board and the growing proportion of turnover that\u2019s come from sports betting, it was about 10 percent in 2003 and 2004. It\u2019s now gone to 27 percent, so you can imagine that if you\u2019re the sporting codes out there and there\u2019s been this absolute focus on just racing, in my view\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the Messara report\u2014but you\u2019ve seen that huge increase, then, quite clearly, you want to have a genuine discussion about what proportion of the pie you get. Unfortunately, again, whether it\u2019s the representation of the New Zealand Racing Board or whether it\u2019s the issues around funding formula, it is my strong view that their voice has not been heard loud enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI do also want to recognise, as well, the work that Ian McKelvie has done with the racing industry. Again, obviously, it\u2019s on the back of the Messara report. We understand that this legislation is only dealing with a few aspects, of which previous speakers have mentioned, and that National in 2017 had made steps to reform the racing industry, but, again, this issue that for 18 months\u2014we\u2019re now in a truncated two-week select committee process because the Government has sat on these issues. I do want to acknowledge the wider work that did kick off in April 2018 when the Minister for Racing commissioned an expert, John Messara, to assess the state of the New Zealand racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAgain, the issues of streamlining in terms of funding and also this issue of representation are very important. I think the future of the TAB as well, whether it is that balance in terms of reducing social harm for gambling but also making sure that we have funds get where they need to in terms of the community\u2014and no better organisations have an understanding of how that money should be spent than our national sporting codes, so their ability to be at the table instead of being cut out of these discussions is incredibly important in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to mention a couple of other things about the real issues of funding in sport, and I\u2019m looking at Louisa Wall right now because I think she does understand some of these issues. We\u2019ve currently got a situation in New Zealand where we\u2019re talking a lot about women in sport. Now, the questions for the Government are: if we have uncertainty around the national sporting codes, we can have all of the committees that we want around women in sport, but if rugby, cricket, netball, football, and basketball can\u2019t get that certainty of funding, then we will literally have less kids playing sport. I don\u2019t understand why, in an 18-month period, when I am looking at Netball New Zealand\u2019s submission to the Messara review, Grant Robertson and other colleagues couldn\u2019t have taken the head of Netball New Zealand\u2019s submission seriously and come out with some policy that would give greater certainty. It is not acceptable, and over the coming weeks, parents, the national sporting codes, and other people involved in the industry will need to get absolute clarity and certainty that no national sporting organisations will lose as a result of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ELook, finally, I just want to make a general comment in terms of racing, because I have talked, obviously, quite a bit about sport. I do acknowledge that David Bennett, learned colleague, but also Ian McKelvie have been doing a lot of work with the industry. We both understand the importance of understanding New Zealand\u2019s role around racing and innovation, actually. There\u2019s a huge amount of work that is going on, and I found, when I met with the Auckland Racing Club, in particular to be briefed around the innovation in terms of the industry, that it is pretty massive, and I think we need to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that for many small-town communities\u2014and excuse the pun but racing is actually the lifeblood of those towns. Again, for those people listening, particularly the racing industry and the sporting industry, look, it\u2019s been a bit of a line-ball call around this bill, because we do understand the importance of the racing industry, and we didn\u2019t want to send a message that we weren\u2019t supporting them. But this issue of the fortnight truncated process after 18 months of sitting on the Government\u2019s hand, and this issue of uncertainty for the national sporting organisations around funding\u2014I am going to be fighting incredibly hard over the next fortnight to get basic clarity, from the Deputy Prime Minister to the Minister of Sport and Recreation, that no national sporting codes will lose, because that matters. We\u2019re a nation of sportspeople and we deserve to have that clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbf1741b59574d759eb58527deccd8a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbf1741b59574d759eb58527deccd8a5\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E And we\u2019re off. Yes, we\u2019re off to a great, flying start with the Racing Reform Bill. I want to acknowledge the incredible work of our Deputy Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, because in 18 months\u2014in 18 months\u2014the Rt Hon Winston Peters has managed to (1) pull a review together\u2014and then we had the Messara report\u2014(2) establish the ministerial advisory committee. I want to acknowledge those members that were on that group: Bill Birnie, Liz Dawson, Kristy McDonald, and Sir Peter Vela. In that period, he is now delivering not one but two bills that come as a great answer to those within this industry that have been seeking reform of the sector for not just 18 months, not just the last couple of years, but for the last nine years prior to this Government coming in. This industry has been calling out for change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, for those of us that are from rural and regional communities\u2014I have the fantastic Te Teko Racecourse just down the way. I\u2019ve got Gisborne\u2014that track is just up the way\u2014and we know how important those tracks and those communities and this industry is for our region, but we also know that there has been an incredible amount of call from regional communities saying that no longer is this industry sustainable. It was getting to a point, as was said in the report, of no return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo the Deputy Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, today is introducing into this House the Racing Reform Bill, and it doesn\u2019t just tinker with the edges, like the previous bill that was entered into this House in 2017. No, no, no, it doesn\u2019t just tinker with a few minor amendments. This is a fundamental overhaul for a sector that we say contributes immeasurably to our region\u2019s economy\u2014as the Rt Hon Winston Peters said, $1.6 billion injected into the economy in the 2016 and 2017 year. What these reforms are intended to do is ensure that the industry becomes more profitable, and in particular in those regions that need it the most. And what does that mean? When we have a more profitable industry within our regions, it means that we\u2019re creating more jobs. It means that we are encouraging people to live, work, and contribute to the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill will establish the Racing Industry Transitional Authority. Now, that authority is going to be the driving force behind enacting the transition and leading, driving, the transition in the industry that is required. Of critical, fundamental importance to all of the members, at least on this side of the House, is that it will require that offshore betting agencies will be required to contribute to our domestic racing industry here, that the proceeds don\u2019t all just fly off overseas but they\u2019re actually invested into our communities here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo I only want to say that there will be a few smiling faces around the country. I\u2019m thinking of Robin Hape right now, I\u2019m thinking of those up in the \u014Ctaki-M\u0101ori Racing Club. They have been calling out for this overhaul of the industry, and I stand here to commend this bill and commend the work of the Rt Hon Peters for bringing this piece of legislation into this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4e9eac0299748a684327769bcfe98d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4e9eac0299748a684327769bcfe98d4\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party is supporting this bill through the first reading, but as has been already stated by Ian McKelvie, we are doing so with a huge number of reservations. I listened to the Rt Hon Winston Peters explaining to the House that this was a $26 billion industry and it contributes very significantly to New Zealand\u2019s export earnings. I agree with him, but it is in two parts that we should look at that particular contribution to our economy. The first is in the direct export of horses that are bred here for the racing industry and horses that are trained here that, ultimately, have the success that leads to the breeding industry itself having a basis to work on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s the product of racing that is in the greatest trouble, and has been for a very long time. The problem with this bill is that it sets out to almost replicate a structure that\u2019s been a problem for the industry for some time. Now, certainly it\u2019s true that they\u2019ve been able to give out more money in stakes in the last couple of years, but during those years, their total revenue has also fallen. So they\u2019ve been living off some kind of fat-of-the-land arrangement to keep the interest up for those who do depend on the industry for their livelihood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat I think is a little bit worrying about this is the statement in some of the material here. It says for the racing industry to thrive and survive in New Zealand, it needs supplementary income. Now, that might be that it takes a share of offshore betting. Let\u2019s make it very clear: clause 21 of this bill will not achieve the objectives stated in the explanatory note. Anyone looking at new section 65AU, inserted by clause 21, will, within seconds, work out that a huge walkthrough is going to still exist for people who want to take the product of New Zealand racing, offer it to their punters, and make a dollar out of that part of the gambling\u2014you\u2019d say\u2014continuum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe select committee is going to have to do an awful lot of work to come up with a regime that goes a little bit beyond empowering the new organisation to bring legal proceedings in a New Zealand court against an offshore gambling operator. That is just sophistry of the worst kind. It is total spin and will make absolutely no difference to the revenue stream coming into the New Zealand racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe second part of that is the concern that it\u2019s going to be the racing industry that controls all gambling on all New Zealand sport. Now, people will say, \u201CWell, that\u2019s what happens at the moment; it\u2019s done through the TAB.\u201D But the question that\u2019s never been answered\u2014and I think it needs to be answered\u2014is: who owns the TAB? How independent is that body, and who is it that gives that body licence to have a monopoly over all gambling in New Zealand? The idea that it\u2019s owned by the racing clubs is a total nonsense. The idea that it\u2019s owned by the racing board as it\u2019s currently structured is, I think, untenable. So to continue with that arrangement, pretending that there\u2019s nothing wrong and not worrying about what that structure is, I think leaves those other sports seriously vulnerable, because in the end it will be the Minister\u2019s appointees to this transitional body who will make the decision about how the funds that come in from racing, or from rugby, or from soccer, or from any other sports that are gambled on are distributed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo while everyone is sort of saying, very nicely, \u201CWe trust that everything is going to go well.\u201D, there will be a legislative structure here that takes away their voice, takes away any right to expectation they might have, and takes away any right they have to representation on that body and leaves it entirely in the hands of the board itself, who all serve at the pleasure of the Minister. So let\u2019s not make any bones about it. This is, in fact, a very, very clever bill designed to just simply pick up on all the problems that have been there for years\u2014a bit of paste-over-the-top, magic sprinkle dust, all sorts of flash words about what we\u2019re going to do to fix it, but absolutely no solutions to the biggest problem here, which is: why is it no longer the great attraction to the public that it once was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EPart of that reason, I think, is because it\u2019s dull. Sitting around in front of your television and watching racing might be entertaining for some people, it may be fun for some people, but for most people it\u2019s not. They do attend the big days out at Addington, or at Riccarton, or at Ellerslie, or here in Wellington\u2014I\u2019m sorry; I can\u2019t remember the name of the course here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e44579a00e1d4d8abf52533dc4d8b89f\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Trentham.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c04a3c1ad614cd0a3f05b4200d3df77\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Trentham\u2014but those are few and far between. Those are few and far between, and all this idea that \u201CWell, look, come along to night racing; it\u2019s exciting.\u201D\u2014it\u2019s dull as dishwater. I think every effort that they\u2019ve made, commendable as it is, falls short because the industry itself have never been prepared to take into their number\u2014to put on their boards, to bring into their fold\u2014people who have a bit of an entrepreneurial bent and a considerable love for the horse racing sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve outlined a number of our concerns. Firstly, there is no guarantee in here that offshore betting will be able to come under a control from New Zealand that will see other offshore agencies contributing to the profit pool that the racing industry and those other sports rely on. Nothing in clause 21 can give anyone any confidence that that will be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929f2fcc50e94eee874d17c642bda8ae\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: It was in your bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846a9ee946d747b9beef8f2765248000\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: And then there is the interesting\u2014well, Mr Faafoi over there, the most decent Minister in the current Government and, no doubt, the next appointee to the Cabinet\u2014and boy do they need him in there, because he is so good\u2014has just pointed out that it was in the previous Government\u2019s bill. Well, he might have noticed that the previous Government didn\u2019t move on it, because that was one of the problems that we wanted to see fixed before we put it in front of the Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a32ba2c77fa4554844dd2fe1183f027\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t move on anything\u2014you didn\u2019t move on anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23333a586414f62bf57bdcd66b43734\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this bill doesn\u2019t either, Mr Peters. All this spin, all the nice words, all the gloss, and all the \u201CI care\u201Ds in the world make no difference at all to the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI would like to talk about the other aspect that is of concern to me, and that is the transitional committee\u2014the Racing Industry Transition Agency that\u2019s being set up. Well, what happens if the next bill doesn\u2019t go through, and how do we in this House know whether or not the next bill will remove the absolute authority of the Minister for Racing to make appointments to whatever new board might come after a transitional period? And while the transitional period is said to be for three years, how do we know it\u2019s only for three years? There is no sunset clause on this bill, no drop-dead date. It could just linger and not be dealt with, and if it does, it just endures and the Minister of the day has all the say on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EJust returning to my core theme, why has this bill not addressed the issue of who owns the TAB? Throughout New Zealand, community trusts are now under pressure and all sorts of Government agencies are under pressure to come up with extra funding for all the things that New Zealanders would like to see happening in their community, whether that\u2019s sport, or whether it\u2019s cultural, or whether it\u2019s of a conservation nature or some other environmental nature. It would be nice to think that where people use the licence that society gives them to gamble, some of the profits from that are made available on a greater basis than we can see in this bill for that community use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s no surprise to me that the Rt Hon Winston Peters has not been able to tackle that problem, because it is quite big. I accept that. But perhaps in another bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ce3e1222e140509b245d03fe67c897\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Oh dear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226641eb2c8c52409fba90cf494bc3a0fa\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there you go, see? I\u2019m looking across there; the Rt Hon Winston Peters is laughing. I think that\u2019s because he thinks it\u2019s simple. In that case, why isn\u2019t it here? Why is there so much fear about taking on the totalisator board? It\u2019s unbelievable\u2014unbelievable. And why would it be that we\u2019re expected to, after the whole of the select committee process, continue voting for a body that has a total monopoly on gambling in New Zealand and now, through a very shonky clause 21, a very weak clause 21, a very timid clause 21, is apparently going to frighten all those offshore gambling agencies into voluntarily paying some contribution into this new body so that they can distribute it across those agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EFinally, the process that sees this going through in two or three weeks is completely unacceptable. There are too many things here that could go wrong, far too many community groups out there who should be heard, and that is something that we\u2019ll be discussing very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00220f81549f6ae14430878bbee3bd15d9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f81549f6ae14430878bbee3bd15d9ff\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa, Mr Assistant Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to stand on the Racing Reform Bill, which the Green Party will be supporting. It\u2019s interesting; the Opposition recognises that there is a need for change in the racing industry, but the Hon Nikki Kaye was effectively suggesting that this was going too fast, a theme that was also returned to by the Hon Gerry Brownlee. What neither of those speakers appear to recognise is that this is a transitional organisation, the Racing Industry Transitional Authority (RITA), and so the racing industry transitional agency will probably form around about June next year. So if you are making change in an industry, you have a transitional agency to get on with the business of making that change and doing that reform. Hence the need for it to go through select committee in an expedited process, so that we can get that change happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee, your comments, your concern about the fact\u2014what the member seems to be saying was that there should therefore be no need for change, and that it wasn\u2019t interesting to watch racing. That is why, if you read clause 11 of the bill, the membership of RITA specifically provides for those members who are appointed by the Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, to have expertise in business, marketing, or economics, to have knowledge and experience of the racing industry and sports administration at a national level. So I am trusting in the Minister that the appointments to the Racing Industry Transitional Authority will have the expertise to recognise what needs to be changed in the industry to make sure that you do get a bigger audience now, whether it\u2019s at the track or whether it\u2019s watching television. That is why there are those specific criteria in there about what the membership of the new Racing Industry Transitional Authority should be. Amongst those up to seven members, I am sure there will be the expertise to actually initiate this change process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons the Green Party has supported the bill, also returning to a theme the Hon Mr Brownlee mentioned, is because there is specific provision in the bill for some of the proceeds to be used, via regulation setting out the amount, for the minimisation and prevention of gambling harm. That is absolutely critical, and that is one of the agreements that was made by the Minister that we appreciate\u2014that the revenue should be used to minimise and prevent gambling harm. That is being used for a community purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this agency, I understand, is expected to operate until at least the middle of next year. In the meantime, we will also see some quite significant changes that seek to recover from offshore betting operators a charge for their use of betting and sports code information from New Zealand, so that it is, essentially, moving to more of a user-pays model, which is good. The other thing that I think should reassure members of the Opposition is that there is to be consultation in relation to Sport New Zealand about the proceeds that go there. It\u2019s not something that RITA will just be making a decision on on its own account; there will be consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo yes, there will be significant community interest in this legislation, but this is the first step. There is to be further reform. If change is to happen, it needs to start promptly, and that is what this bill, with the transitional agency, is all about. It\u2019s ensuring that that agency has appropriate expertise on it to actually improve the governance of the industry as a whole, to improve the way in which it generates revenue, and to make it quite certain that some of that revenue has got to be used for the prevention and minimisation of gambling harm. So the Green Party supports the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002271c80d8f60ed48f3890fda5fd4834148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c80d8f60ed48f3890fda5fd4834148\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. The National Party also supports this bill, and I would like to first acknowledge the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who has always taken a very active interest in racing over many years, and has seen himself as a bit of a saviour to that industry. I wish to dispel some of those doubts that people may have\u2014himself included\u2014in his potential role in saving the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut I would say this: the New Zealand racing industry and the breeding industry have an exceptional future ahead of it; that it is an industry that will take on the Asian markets and deliver a product that will be bought by those communities. You don\u2019t need thousands of people at racecourses these days. We see what the international developments are in racing. Just go look at Singapore and Hong Kong and you can see what\u2019s out there in the market. The Chinese market will open up, and when it does open up, there will be billions of dollars that will be bet on racing. There are only three or four countries in the world that have a good product, and they are New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, and, probably, America. We are situated as one of the best countries to take advantage of the world racing and betting market when it opens up, and it will, and I implore the New Zealand Parliament to support reform in racing, because we need it so our racing community can take advantage of that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, in saying this, we had legislation that we put in front of this Parliament before the last election, and we did it through the Primary Production Committee. I\u2019d like to thank the select committee members that were part of the process to make sure that went through quickly\u2014and, Kieran, you were part of that, and thank you. Then we had the Messara report, and I could understand a new Minister coming in, wanting to get a report, and he got the leading Australians to come in and make that report. Now, when that report came out, I remember the Minister was in Hamilton and he said, \u201CIt\u2019s an all or nothing thing\u201D. Those were his exact words\u2014you had to do it all. Well, that was never going to happen, because the Messara report was far too detailed. So what actually happened was the Minister had to take a step back, and he had to create a new body that would look into the Messara report and work out what could and what couldn\u2019t be done at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not trying to attack the Minister or anything. I\u2019m just putting out the history of what\u2019s happened. That body has come back with, basically, a two-part process and what they want to do around the racing industry, and that\u2019s where the Messara report should\u2019ve been in the first place. It shouldn\u2019t have all been in one hit. The Minister should have gone out there and said, \u201CNo, there\u2019s going to be a staged process\u201D. The first stage is race fields. That is the legislation that had been started by the Hon Nathan Guy and we had completed the work on it, and, effectively, it\u2019s not much different here now. The race fields part of this bill is not much different. It\u2019s still got an information charge, it\u2019s got a consumption charge, it\u2019s got those basic things that race fields had in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s one part of this bill. It\u2019s not all of this bill, but it is one part, and that effectively enables us to be able to take bets overseas to make sure that New Zealanders get the value for our product. I realise there are issues that the Hon Gerry Brownlee raised, but this is something that has been put in most racing countries now. Australia has consumption information charges in some of its states, and there is that buy-in from those big betting agencies to pay that money, because they realise that they want to be part of that community. So although you can\u2019t legislate overseas and make someone else pay a tax overseas, there is that agreement by those agencies to do so. That has shown to be working in the Australian model, and when we did this bill we had those commitments from those agencies when it came through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, that race-fields legislation could have gone through a year or so ago, and, as Mr McKelvie said, a million dollars a month has been lost out of this industry because that legislation hasn\u2019t gone through. Now, the Minister might want to have his name on it, and not the National Party name; that\u2019s fine. But putting that ahead of an industry, and $16 million or whatever it has been in that period of time, just isn\u2019t good enough. That race fields part of the legislation could have been passed last year, or the year before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a duty that is on racing, and a new part of this bill was to take away the duty. Most in the racing field will want that duty to go back into the industry. I think it is a good idea that it goes back in the industry, and I would support that. But we don\u2019t want that money to go back to just the pool of bets, and that\u2019s where the Rt Hon Winston Peters doesn\u2019t understand what he could do in this area. By putting it just in the pool of betting funds, it\u2019s going to bring a couple of hundred bucks to an average race meeting. That\u2019s not going to make any difference to the owners, the trainers, the jockeys\u2014all those people that are out there. It\u2019s not going to encourage that breeding industry. That $13 million to $14 million dollars should be allocated to a fund which is out there for clubs to go and to apply for if they\u2019re making strategic change in the industry, if they are willing to make that change around having new race tracks that meet the new needs of the market, if they\u2019re willing to have races that actually pay a value, that encourage people to have a horse at that track, at that race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThat middle tier of racing is what the opportunity for that money is, not just to put it in the general pot and let it go. This Minister hasn\u2019t worked that out, and that will be his failing in these reforms, because all he\u2019s doing is just moving it to the bigger pot, as the Hon Gerry Brownlee said, which is a model that hasn\u2019t worked in the past. We need to use that money strategically, in a way that will develop this industry. That is the opportunity that is in front of us now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another opportunity in front of us\u2014and I think the Hon Nikki Kaye raised it very well\u2014and that is that sports betting is now, effectively, a third of the TAB turnover, and that will continue to increase. As a great football person, the Champions League is the greatest sporting event in the world. That will have billions of dollars of money bet on it. In the future, you know\u2014you look at the New Zealand under-20 World Cup football team. It will probably have more money bet on them around the world than in a major race in New Zealand. That is the future of betting, and it is the future of sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c237d7fc79e54fc5b431ac34a90f1534\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Do they get the money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa2cb62a73f40a090812c50c1baef3c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They do get the money at the moment\u2014they do. But the problem is, under the bill, it\u2019s all through regulation. So those sporting codes are now told they need to trust the Rt Hon Winston Peters: \u201CTrust me, I will look after you.\u201D I challenge the Rt Hon Winston Peters to put a Supplementary Order Paper up, because you\u2019re only going to give two weeks for this House. I want you to put a Supplementary Order Paper up, in those two weeks, which says there will be no net loss to those sporting codes from the percentages they are getting now. I want you to give them a recast iron guarantee that they are not going to be subsidising the racing industry. They don\u2019t deserve to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229465359a20b84cce981db7465a10827c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Subsidise the racing industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca71f55e96c4cafab8b24c796f0fb65\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the potential is that that could happen, and that is the risk. The Minister can easily mitigate that risk now through the select committee, and also the Supplementary Order Paper process just to give that one clause\u2014it won\u2019t hurt anybody. That will leave a lot of comfort to our side of the House. It will leave a lot of comfort to the rugby\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eebd9e8cfe094c1e825040a0d07638c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Was it in the member\u2019s bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6093316ab694fae865273aec9e6a8e8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the cricket, the football, and all those others. The Minister says, \u201CWhy wasn\u2019t it in our bill?\u201D Well, in our bill, we had those clauses in the bill, so you knew what percentage they were going to get. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f55d2c725a43d4b4a13f8529dc92b1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226172c266a31a4bf3bf6f9c43c640bda0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They did, because you had that in there in the race fields. The Minister\u2019s put that into regulation now, so that can be debated in the future, once the bills passed, but those codes have no way of coming back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI implore the sensible members of the Labour Party over there to support sport as well, because that is where the TAB is going to grow in the future\u2014it\u2019s going to be a big area of growth, and there is that opportunity just to put that one clause in, which I think would give a lot of comfort to a lot of people in the sport sector, and also wouldn\u2019t hurt this bill at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo this is a bill which we need to do. The racing industry is bigger than those that are just in the industry. It\u2019s bigger because it represents part of the New Zealand psyche, and, in provincial New Zealand, it is part of the lifestyle of being a New Zealander. It\u2019s also part of being proud to be a New Zealander every time we win a Melbourne Cup or whatever. But the reality is that we need smart reforms. We don\u2019t just need patched-up reforms from a Minister that couldn\u2019t work it out in the first instance, had to redo it, and is looking at doing a two-stage process. The second stage is going to be the difficult one because that\u2019s, effectively, where you outsource the TAB. The Minister has put a value on the TAB and, in putting that value on the TAB, he has made it very difficult for that second stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo I would encourage the Labour, New Zealand First, and Green members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022526906811430414aa5c354aa2a647842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022526906811430414aa5c354aa2a647842\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I apologise to the member, your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI call the Hon Clare Curran. I understand this is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022dccc65e06968476e9b5c3191ac986ea1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dccc65e06968476e9b5c3191ac986ea1\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Well, I must say, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever said this in the House before, but I actually agree with quite a bit of what David Bennett said. I thought it was actually, mostly, quite a reasonable speech. But I have to say that the National Party\u2019s speeches in the House on this bill this afternoon have been all over the place because, while David Bennett said it needs to happen, it has to happen, and has a few beefs with various parts of the bill, Gerry Brownlee says the racing sector is boring, and he asks what\u2019s wrong with it. Nikki Kaye barely talked about the Racing Reform Bill; instead she talked about the adverse effect on sporting codes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ESo I haven\u2019t been a racing spokesperson in my time in Parliament, but I will tell you this: I\u2019ve got two quite significant and historical race courses in my electorate. Forbury Park Raceway, formed in 1870, started off originally as a galloping and saddle-trotting raceway. Then there was a split from it that went off to a place just out of Mosgiel, at a place called Wingat\u016B\u012B, which is quite a famous raceway that is also in my electorate. Forbury then became known for its trotting, and particularly its night trotting, in the 1960s. Certainly, I would say that both those race courses are past their prime, and that certainly feeds in to what the Minister has said in a speech this afternoon on this\u2014that there is a serious issue in the New Zealand racing industry, that it is in a state of decline, and that urgent action is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EOne of the other things that Nikki Kaye actually said in her speech earlier was that this was a terribly truncated process\u2014and yet there was previous legislation apparently sitting around by the last Government. So since then, there\u2019s been an extraordinary process to get to the point where this report\u2014the review of the New Zealand racing industry, the Messara report\u2014was produced. There were 1,700 submissions. That\u2019s not a terribly truncated process in my book, and it shouldn\u2019t be in anyone\u2019s book for those who are listening to this. That was carried out last year. There were 1,700 submissions received, and then the Government established an advisory committee to guide the implementation of the recommendations\u2014I think there were 17 recommendations made by the Messara report\u2014and this is where this legislation has come from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Prime Minister has made absolutely clear that this is step one, and that there\u2019s a further step to come. This piece of legislation establishes a transitional body which will see that process through, as well as those other financial gathering measures which, interestingly, were actually based, more or less, on the previous Government\u2019s work. So that doesn\u2019t sound like a terribly truncated process to me. It sounds like a responsible process that\u2019s actually about dealing with the big-picture issues in the industry, which is worth a lot to New Zealand, and which does have some significant issues that do need to be addressed. So it\u2019s not piecemeal. This is a stepped process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s responsible. I think that the National Party needs to work out, actually, what its real position is on this. I think David Bennett obviously seems to have more of an idea than the rest of you\u2014not you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I think it\u2019s very responsible. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221587d72e7f9d45dd91b82ae0b02bc14d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221587d72e7f9d45dd91b82ae0b02bc14d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E No industry, internationally, is as vulnerable to corruption as the gambling industry. In the Racing Amendment Bill, we are talking about $2.7 billion a year of gambling. We are talking about hugely increasing the powers of the Minister in that we are giving him carte blanche to appoint the board. We are giving a repeal of the law that sets minimum amounts of gaming to go to sports, and we\u2019re removing the law that sets out how that money is to be distributed between the codes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is my view that a two-week select committee process on a 40-page bill, deliberately sending it to a select committee\u2014not the Primary Production Committee but the committee that is chaired by New Zealand First\u2014and having a process of which there can be none of the scrutiny that is properly deserved is a total disgrace. I remind the House that at the last general election, the electoral law was breached by New Zealand First and the racing industry. So scrutiny of this legislation is absolutely required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy first question, which I\u2019d love the Minister to answer is this: why are we extending the monopoly of the racing industry to take revenues from sports that have nothing to do with racing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851bcb1ffdb14efdb17ac3b23ea643ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c49ca4b8b546cbb278f9428ce917fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, it is. The bill very specifically\u2014why should the racing industry get revenues from others? Let\u2019s be very clear: the current law sets a minimum 5 percent of revenues that have to go to any other sport. That is being repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to ask about is this question: why is it that if a New Zealander lodges a bet on the Lotto, a bet on a gaming machine, or a bet at a casino, they pay the gaming levy? Why is the only form of betting in New Zealand\u2014sports betting and horse betting\u2014to be exempt? Are we really? Someone in the Government please give me a reason why betting on sports should be exempt of the gaming levy when every other form of gaming is not? I think actually every member of the House does know why the gaming levy is being exempted for the gaming industry, and that is because of the contributions that are made to New Zealand First by members of that industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaafe503dca84249a93607a61059613a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is totally disorderly. It is outrageous, and if he wants to talk about corruption, go look in the mirror, but he won\u2019t get away with it here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d91b0b83be34c4489b88de549221aa3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022445ad54d66e343969325dd45eb5432a7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. It is actually a point of order, and I will rule on that. I think, Dr Smith, you are sailing very close to the wind. I would ask you to pull back from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212dd839fcdc941cda6303db6b2349f01\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker, the parts of this bill that are really good have been sitting before the House for over two years, and they are the parts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed00c1c693954036882b21794e3c4efc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. He made an allegation about a party being corrupt. He thinks he can slide past that with his background and for us not to have a protest. We want an apology right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d503d4ae8bce40159c67a0034102a79b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, it is a matter of public record that the New Zealand First Party and the racing industry were found by the Electoral Commission to have breached the law at the last general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a6d1f3c0d364f34bf3f9fb0999c40f0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I will allow the Rt Hon Winston Peters to speak to that. We are drawing this out a little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85cb4e4030945a5a59c30ea65874dcc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Assistant Speaker, now he\u2019s compounded the matter by making a false statement, and you\u2019ll know that because there was no such allegation that materialised into an action against New Zealand First. It\u2019s the kind of allegation he makes but without any base to it, and now he\u2019s compounded his error twice. We are asking for an apology. We do take offence, and he\u2019s outside of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a647e98de46411587afd57bfaa2f9b7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: As the right honourable gentleman knows, it is whether the House has taken offence. I have to say that the Hon Dr Nick Smith has indeed compounded the disorder that was created with the initial statement that he made. I will ask him to stand, withdraw, and apologise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0eec571792043e493d1be9a110e16e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. It is a matter of public record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244807bc621964d7fa985ba3663633343\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I will also ask the honourable gentleman to just be a little more circumspect in his\u2014[Interruption] Just a moment, please. I\u2019m just finishing with my ruling\u2014only a couple more words. I would ask the honourable gentleman whether he could just be a little more circumspect in the rest of his contribution for the next one minute and 51 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed3eac515e7466781fb8b885dbaa329\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b696523beb5462ea69ebbc3dac8311c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I hope this is not on this matter, which I have just ruled on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3207e147424b53b89741745c1fd50c\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The right to speak freely in this House is one of the most important freedoms\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252661f85d69744048869c815e488327b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: You do, indeed, but not to create disorder, and by challenging the ruling of the Speaker, you will be\u2014[Interruption] No, just a moment. I\u2019m still ruling on the previous matter. So can we just come back to the matter at hand? I\u2019ve actually called you to continue to speak. You\u2019ve asked for a second point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215795f98226d4de5bd454c9ed9dcabe0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I seek the leave of the House to table the decision of the New Zealand Electoral Commission with respect to the breach of the Electoral Act over advertisements at the last general election urging people to vote for New Zealand First, and funded by the racing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e05b1a03b416452698133eae69474da6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225473c548c96f49f989a244033d166a24\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I speak to the point of order? I can help. Now I know what he\u2019s talking about. You see, the offence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d6ee37be0f4addb9dfe55ff8220289\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a point of order or is this a matter of explanation, because I could clear it up by putting the leave to the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257780a910f1e43109aa5ee1bf97e4c6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: We are not going to support leave, because what he is putting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1d0f632a04546b3ad6ccc21c512c868\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I will put leave and the House can determine it. Leave is so sought. Is there objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fca69309e0f4eeaa8611b381aa4d1e1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c52be6906c4043b439d4bd999be556\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I call the Hon Dr Nick Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4c396477b5b4e878354be40bb90bf2d\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The parts of this bill that provide for the gaming industry, developed by David Bennett, to be able to generate revenue from the provision of racing events in New Zealand and offshore are entirely appropriate and strongly supported by the National Party, with the disappointment that that bill has sat around with this Government for more than 18 months and has cost the racing industry over $16 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe parts in this bill that are quite wrong are that, currently, in the law we set a minimum of 5 percent that is to go to sporting codes. That is being repealed. There is no justification for the racing industry unfairly grabbing profits from the monopoly that is being extended with this bill from betting on other activities, and I challenge the good conscience of members opposite to answer the basic questions: why should the racing industry gain profits from sports which they have nothing to do with? Why should a person who bets on any other activity\u2014the lotteries, which provide huge money for our communities; they pay a gaming levy. Why should those who go to the casino or to a gaming machine pay a levy and the only people to be exempt are those on sports betting and gaming? This is a Government that has repealed over $1,000 a head of tax reductions for workers, and what they are proposing here is a tax reduction for gamblers. I simply say to members opposite: why would Parliament want to provide a tax cut for gamblers? Is that the highest priority\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00227aa0b01c1b8449e68fedb578de10b768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227aa0b01c1b8449e68fedb578de10b768\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. Your time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220d436e498f2d49f3899c4b2f705ef8c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d436e498f2d49f3899c4b2f705ef8c6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E If I could just begin my presentation by acknowledging a recently passed journalist in New Zealand, John Costello, well known as \u201CCos\u201D, who would have been watching this debate with great interest. Can I just say that he was the only journalist who was ever a member of the Racing Hall of Fame, and in his very last article, published not hours before his death, he said something that I think the House may enjoy: \u201CMy only modest vices have been to smoke like a chimney, drink like a drain and gamble as if there was no settling day.\u201D In that same article, he did talk about the need for reform in the racing industry, lamenting the state which it had reached, and so to be here today speaking on a bill which is called the Racing Reform Bill, I think the timeliness could not be better. I\u2019m listening to the contributions from across the floor. There seem to be more factions than at an anarchists\u2019 conference, and especially those of the last speaker, Nick Smith, seem to be as extreme as they could possibly be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ERacing is part of the lifeblood of New Zealanders. I think most New Zealanders will, at some stage in their life, even if they haven\u2019t partaken in gambling\u2014or even betting\u2014also be well aware that in their own communities the race meeting took on a very important part of the social fabric, even if it was to lament the amount of money that had gone in there, which was a fair enough thing. I know, in my own case, my family had a great uncle who was one of those so-called vets on the race course\u2014dear, old great-uncle Frank\u2014who was apparently quite expert at ensuring that just the right amount of arsenic went into the horse to ensure that it did win the race and didn\u2019t die in the straight leading up to the winning post. Things have moved on, but it\u2019s tales like that that, again, have ensured that not only were they part of the great New Zealand folklore but also they contributed greatly not only to the economy of New Zealand but also to the reputation of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWho can forget, certainly those of my era, those great wins by Kiwi and Waverley Star, when we felt very proud\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a58c32c1c5f4114a8a06f7d21fd1409\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: And Phar Lap!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a02e6d056c9741e294b8fdfbd7498aa6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I know my colleague did mention Phar Lap. I have seen his heart in the museum. It belongs in New Zealand, I know, but as someone who probably is a size sufficient to be a jockey, he does have some expertise in that area. However, I do go back to what this industry has contributed and can contribute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, if I take some of the contributions from across the House, across the floor, there is a general acknowledgement that if we get this right and ensure that we not only look after our own industry in New Zealand, particularly the racing industry, but also that we can partake in the growth. Because when we talk about reform in any aspect, the greatest reform that we have to address, of course, is online: the internet. If we look at the figures\u2014just looking again, I think it was Mr Brownlee who mentioned that people don\u2019t need to go to the races any more. Certainly, that is borne out by the figures. In 2003, there were 1,000,040 people who attended race meetings in New Zealand; in 2016-17 that was down to 614,000 and dropping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOf course, the revenue from gambling hasn\u2019t had the same sort of a drop. But if we\u2019re going to\u2014and again I go back to Mr Brownlee; the odd gem does come out. He does at times look like one of those old blokes standing in a corner lamenting time\u2019s past which he was a part of. However, he\u2019s saying that the product itself does need some enlivening\u2014the product itself\u2014to draw people to the industry, to make sure that we can tap into that for New Zealand\u2019s sake. Yes, there may well be something in that, but to do that there\u2019s got to be an industry, there\u2019s got to be good horses there, there\u2019s got to be good stakes, and there\u2019s got to be good exports and imports, and this is what this bill really does seek to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMore and more of that gambling dollar is being spent around the world. More and more of that gambling dollar is being spent outside racing. And if we get this right, and I look at this bill\u2014this is a bill that does address much of what ails the industry. We\u2019ve been criticised that it\u2019s taken 18 months to get here. Well, 18 months is not very long in this industry. Charleston\u2014my grandmother showed me the racecourse in Charleston at the turn of the century. That just shows how long\u2014and long before that races have been part of this. So to stand and criticise the fact that it\u2019s taken 18 months to get here really does show an ignorance of just how important it is to get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I have no hesitation in standing here, commending this bill to the House. I think it is something that does seek to\u2014and I think will\u2014address those issues which plague the industry and which ensure that going forward we are in a position to not only keep racing as part of our lore in New Zealand\u2014l-o-r-e\u2014but to ensure that it actually contributes financially to New Zealand. So thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9fa11a3601c4ab5b10997c58c782667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9fa11a3601c4ab5b10997c58c782667\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks very much, Madam Assistant Speaker. It\u2019s a great opportunity to take a call on what is a very important bill for the New Zealand racing industry, the Racing Reform Bill, and we\u2019ve had a lot of discussion this afternoon about how we got to this point. I want to take us back a bit because, as a former racing Minister, I worked very hard to get the Racing Amendment Bill into this House through the Cabinet process, into the select committee, and then in the Primary Production Committee it just stalled. It stalled for months on end and we kept asking Mark Patterson, who sits on the Primary Production Committee, \u201CWhat\u2019s happening\u2014what\u2019s happening? You better talk to your boss. This has just stalled.\u201D It stalled and what happened was somewhere in the middle of all of that there was the Messara report, and then that kicked off. So then we had a very interesting discussion in the select committee, where we had to report back on a bill that had, effectively, been discharged. All of the work that we did to get it to that point\u2014I was so disappointed. We had the racing industry virtually begging the select committee to get it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188b3afb5c93407eb218a3dd13e4ddee\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Assistant Speaker. Look, as illuminating as this is, this debate is about this bill, not the last bill that was dealt with by the committee, and, frankly\u2014I mean, he\u2019s well into his speech and it\u2019s this bill he has to be talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dde7cd5ff83a43778c36a87d33228867\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the honourable gentleman; that is a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264034458829d4847b8d5ae5fa0836fd4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I know that the Minister\u2019s very sensitive, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288993179ed44491cb17848a7347a9616\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666fb3110143490a843cebde1fc30d9e\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because he just got to his feet and raised a point of order which was really just a debating point, and I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll have quite a bit of time this afternoon to actually get to his feet again and make a contribution, instead of making tacky points of order\u2014if I can, please, get back to where I was, because it\u2019s really important when you look at the context of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWe had a very similar bill in the select committee. The select committee debated it, we had submissions, and then it came to the point of reporting back\u2014and I\u2019m looking forward to hearing from Mark Patterson this afternoon, because he was sitting in the select committee running errands back to the Minister for Racing, and he couldn\u2019t report back and say what was happening. It stalled. As a result the racing industry suffered\u2014we estimate $15 to $16 million\u2014while we waited for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ENow, this bill is a cut and paste of the National Government\u2019s bill and he\u2019s added some more things in\u2014the Minister has. So pretty much you can do it\u2014I think it\u2019s control, alt, 7 or 9 on the keyboard\u2014you can cut and paste documents and bring them into the bill. Well, that\u2019s what a lot of this bill is. It\u2019s a cut-and-paste bill of the National Party\u2019s bill that was in the select committee, which we had a robust debate on, then everything stalled. Now, that\u2019s the history, a very important history lesson for the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen we think about this bill now, and there\u2019s been wide discussion about some of the additional pieces of this bill that the Minister has added in. We heard this afternoon from our sports spokesperson, Nikki Kaye, saying \u201CAre the codes aware that, effectively, what is currently in the Act\u2014how disbursements are made\u2014is going to come out of the Act and be set by the Minister through Order in Council and the Cabinet process?\u201D Are the sports bodies aware of that fact? If they are, what do the parents think of this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAt the moment, you have something in the Act that is, effectively, going to come out and be a regulatory-making power. I think that when sports codes and mum and dads who stand on the netball court or the rugby field on Saturday morning supporting their kids realise this, they\u2019ll want to come and make a contribution through the select committee process, but of course there isn\u2019t time. There\u2019s only two weeks for this bill, when the Messara report has been out and about for months. So this is a truncated select committee process, when a lot of the people that it\u2019s going to impact aren\u2019t even going to realise that they\u2019re going to have an opportunity to submit, because within 13 or 14 days the select committee have to report back by 11 June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, when we have a look at the Messara report, we know there\u2019s a lot that isn\u2019t already in this bill that the Minister wanted to get in, but because of the way the coalition works he\u2019s got support by Labour and the Greens on this one\u2014and I\u2019m not sure if the Greens are sticking with this one right through or just for first reading; we\u2019ll need to wait and see on that. But there\u2019s a couple of other aspects in the Messara report that are going to be following through in another bill, and they are: floating the TAB, effectively allowing\u2014it could be\u2014Australians to come in and own part of it. I wonder what the Green Party think of that. I\u2019m not sure that the Minister will get the support of his coalition partner to get that part of the next bill through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat about all this rationalisation of tracks that is being proposed in the Messara report? I can\u2019t see that sitting anywhere in this one, because that\u2019s very hot politics and I\u2019m sure the Minister knows that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another aspect that\u2019s not in this bill, which is about product mix, because to entice people to come and gamble via the TAB you need to have a fresh product, and product mix is not part of this bill. But wait, I think that it will be in due course\u2014potentially, in this Parliament\u2014that we may be back debating a racing reform bill, part 2, and then, of course, the Minister will need to reach out to this side of the House to get that bill passed. So we\u2019ll wait with interest to see about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EAlso, there is an aspect in this bill about the three codes, and the three codes are very important: harness, thoroughbred, and greyhounds. Of course, the issue\u2019s always been: is one bigger than the other? Well, the reality is yes. Then, if you\u2019re going to smash the three codes and have one stand-alone body that doesn\u2019t acknowledge the codes and have the same respect for the smaller code, which, of course, is the greyhounds and the dogs\u2014which, in terms of return on investment, when I had a look at the money, they actually return the most. When you think that they have a dog that travels around in the back of the car, they don\u2019t have big fixed costs. So my challenge back to the Minister\u2014and this will play out in the truncated select committee process\u2014is that if he\u2019s going to meddle with the three codes and how it works at the moment, he needs to be mindful of the fact always that racing is not just about the big end of town; it\u2019s about the small end, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EFinally, there is a part to do with repealing the tax duties, and the comment I want to make here is that this is likely to be the only tax cut for 2019. This bill is a tax cut for the racing industry, and whether it\u2019s worthy of it or not, I think it needs to be acknowledged that there will be no other tax cuts for hard-working New Zealanders, apart from this one that\u2019s in this bill. So what we won\u2019t hear in the Budget this week is that a tax cut is proposed in Budget 2019. This bill here is a tax cut. So let\u2019s not try and gloss over it: it\u2019s a tax cut for the racing industry. So we have the coalition Government, which is against tax cuts for hard-working New Zealanders, but in this bill, there is a tax cut for the racing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, I think the truncated two-week select committee process doesn\u2019t do it justice for the 50,000 people that are associated with the racing industry. Now, the Minister has been in the chair for about 18 months now. He\u2019s had the Messara report for I\u2019d say about five or six months. He\u2019s had ample opportunity to bring this bill into the Parliament and before the select committee\u2014and I think it\u2019s going to the wrong select committee. It\u2019s only going there because, last time I checked, there\u2019s a Government majority. It should have come to the Primary Production Committee, where we could have worked on it effectively. But it\u2019s going to the wrong select committee, it\u2019s a truncated process, and the 50,000 people that want to have their say won\u2019t even wake up and have the opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00221b6b4bf3ebe84e0a8b4bd9a4db454a2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b6b4bf3ebe84e0a8b4bd9a4db454a2e\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Madam Assistant Speaker. We have been treated today to a pantomime on the other side of the House. The question is: does the National Party support this bill? On one side of the National Party, they say, \u201COh no, we don\u2019t.\u201D, but on the other side of the National Party, they say, \u201COh yes, we do.\u201D, because over there, on that side of the House, they have no idea what they are talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThere are members standing up and saying that this is a travesty of a bill, and then you\u2019ve got David Bennett standing up and saying that he supports the bill and that he congratulates the Government for doing what he was doing. So you\u2019ve got a bloke claiming credit for the bill and the bloke standing next to him, the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2014who didn\u2019t even know where Trentham was\u2014is pretending to know about racing. I suggest that the Hon Gerry Brownlee is getting some practice in, because very soon he\u2019ll be a backbencher and he\u2019ll have to get used to talking about things he doesn\u2019t know anything about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis bill is very important for the racing industry, and I would say to those that are involved\u2014just like myself, who worked in the racing industry in Ireland and New Zealand\u2014the thousands of people who work in the racing industry now, and the thousands of punters, to take the opportunity to listen to the National Party\u2019s speeches today. You will hear the Hon Nick Smith call the gambling industry corrupt, you will hear the Hon Gerry Brownlee call racing boring, and then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3e42fc44f74faca3a007bfcd70d5f3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You\u2019re sailing a little close to the wind there, Mr McAnulty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224736dbfaaa17492b8c8e42a2b65f00b8\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Madam Assistant Speaker. You\u2019re right. Even if they say it, I shouldn\u2019t repeat it\u2014you\u2019re dead right. The point here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bc9a2b2ff24a0c9f0249e7808dc423\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, that\u2019s just compounding the issue. Let\u2019s just get back to the matter at hand. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237abd1d0554742f1a03d50d575534fd9\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re dead right. This bill here gives the industry what they\u2019ve been screaming out for for ages. Rural and regional New Zealand rely on the racing industry in many respects, and our economy, in many respects, relies not only on the racing industry now but on the potential that it has to fulfil in years to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut in the entirety of the previous Government, the racing industry was screaming out for support, and then, in the dying days of the last National Government, they finally brought a bill in, which the Hon David Bennett said was going to be its saviour and the Hon Gerry Brownlee said was useless, as did many other speakers. Then you\u2019ve got the scaremongering. You\u2019ve got the Hon Nikki Kaye saying that sports are going to miss out, and then you\u2019ve got Ian McKelvie and David Bennett saying that sports are an important part of gambling and that this bill is going to assist the wider racing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMake their minds up\u2014that is the message to the National Party today. They should make their minds up. They should read the bill, they should know what they\u2019re going to say, and they should make their minds up. Even if they don\u2019t know what\u2019s in the bill, for the love of God, at least say the same things. You mustn\u2019t have the same members from the same party criticising each other and contradicting each other, because it sends a very clear message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhen the racing industry looks at this Government\u2019s bill and looks at the Government\u2019s stance\u2014total unison, total support, and getting behind that industry\u2014they have a very clear choice. They\u2019ve got an Opposition who doesn\u2019t care, doesn\u2019t know, and doesn\u2019t give them the respect that they deserve, and they\u2019ve got a Government, led by the Minister for Racing here in this instance, who is actually delivering to be the saviour of this industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the Racing Reform Bill be referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a8b65f3bc5b445d18b90c4fe51fe88d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eac6608b6b7b4097a2b69b85ca1b0cc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eac6608b6b7b4097a2b69b85ca1b0cc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister for Racing):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Racing Reform Bill be reported to the House by 11 June 2019 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBill No. 1 seeks agreement to repurpose the New Zealand Racing Board as the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA). It\u2019s an initial step. A shortened select committee period is requested to allow RITA to start work immediately on transitional arrangements. The House can anticipate a second racing amendment bill during RITA\u2019s work, which will contain the substantive changes recommended for the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Racing Amendment Bill (No 2) will proceed later this year and will be subject to a fuller select committee process. But I can say this: the bill which was a precursor to this, the Racing Amendment Bill, was substantially consulted on\u2014the National Party is claiming that this is their bill; it was substantially consulted on\u2014and the Messara report was, again, substantially consulted on and received over 1,700 submissions. So there is the matter of consultation dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut I want to say this: I was actually astonished today at the reaction of the National Party. Out there, when you are shovelling you-know-what at 4 o\u2019clock in the morning in the back of the stables as a young person because you believe in racing and you know that your whole employment is dependent upon the industry and the stud farm where you are being a success\u2014if you are that person, you would have been in despair today to hear the National Party\u2019s lack of understanding and sheer contempt for the plight that they\u2019re in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIf you are a person out there rounding up and harnessing up the horses, whether it be a trotter or a pacer, or dare I say, walking the dogs if you\u2019re a greyhound owner, you\u2019d be concerned to see just how arrogant members of the National Party were today. It\u2019s as though these people don\u2019t matter. I\u2019ve seen them, of course, at the racecourse, and they\u2019re all over them like a rash, but when they get here, they can\u2019t and aren\u2019t prepared to show one bit of unity to help an industry that has been static on $1.6 billion for nine long years before the National Party went out of power. Nine years of static performance, with all the opportunities that this industry needs to provide employment for young people in particular, whose only dream is to work in an industry with an animal that they love, which is part of the magnificent history\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b6e37a100654e44aa72ec8cc804686a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Could I call the right honourable gentleman to order, please. We are debating the ability to truncate the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232d39e27d807487098bb8b37d7df4509\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, exactly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cdf0173d84047f79031ac0f969fd2c4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so let\u2019s stick to the matter at hand, rather than being wide-ranging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e97d29e6074f9d8659a25c5ae14b6f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m trying to ensure that the people who made that claim today have to face the fact that the people who are most concerned with this bill were utterly and seriously consulted. Personally, I went around the country, from Invercargill to the most northern racecourse at Ruak\u0101k\u0101, to speak to people. So did my colleague Mr McAnulty from the Wairarapa. A number of my colleagues, like Mr Faafoi, went around the country. I have got no doubts that the Minister for primary industries, Mr O\u2019Connor, did that as well. So we consulted extensively and it\u2019s demonstrated in this legislation at the level of consultation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut I want to say this: take the thoroughbred industry. It used to have 8,000 mares; now it\u2019s got less than 4,000 and falling, unless we can turn that around. It used to be a huge industry once, employing so many people and in a much smaller population. That can all be revived, but we can\u2019t get there if members of Parliament are going to blow hot and cold, say one thing out there in respect to the industry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faf667f9e8684c629561d9fe212e74ba\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: We are straying from the motion, so please\u2014thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d69a11d72d4488688ea05b96ffc9f4a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: All I\u2019m going to say, on the question that was raised in the debate, of course\u2014it was one raised by Nikki Kaye about the pie itself. Well, before we dance around, trying to demonstrate how keen we are about other sports and codes, and before we start talking about the pie, how about growing it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe12f151f11e442488e85f0b097ec479\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb19c5b3e1364bc7a17b7e611becb0b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the end of my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f11ed44a39f42e5be6cbc6cc2d1740b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you; I\u2019ve asked you three times now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220a9bd93140f5487bb0aac72521f250aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a9bd93140f5487bb0aac72521f250aa\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E The Standing Orders do allow me to rebut a couple of comments that were made by the Rt Hon Winston Peters in relation to my commentary in the previous debate. Firstly, there is nothing I have said in the House today that I haven\u2019t said to the racing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee0cef9ca1da42b3b6ddc5a91e2762b2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Why is he giving two speeches in this debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255dcac0fd08b4bec977f55bc60a32e58\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I think that\u2019s a little rich coming from the honourable gentleman, but I thank you for your advice. I won\u2019t take it, however.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aed3964992746a9a4e0b3899bb8331f\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s got a very short memory. He should apologise for his first speech. There\u2019s nothing I\u2019ve said here this afternoon that I haven\u2019t said to representatives of the racing industry. The sad thing here is that no legislation will change the product, and it\u2019s the product that\u2019s the problem. If it weren\u2019t, we wouldn\u2019t have heard those statistics from the Rt Hon Winston Peters about the fall in the number of brood mares, the fall in the number of people who derive an income from this particular industry, and from the decline of the export side of the industry as well, or potential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s not kid ourselves. This is an industry that\u2019s in some difficulty and this bill does not go as far as it should to protect it or to encourage it. By having this shortened, truncated select committee process, the expectation is that this bill will be returned to the House without any changes at all. Just look at clause 21, which inserts new sections 65AA to 65AX. This is where the great hope is held out that the New Zealand system will be able to extract money from those who offer the opportunity to gamble on New Zealand racing and sporting events from offshore, and some of that funding will flow back to New Zealand. This series of new sections under clause 21 won\u2019t do it. While we\u2019ve got the glossy language that\u2019s being talked out there at the moment, it will only be when there is a select committee analysis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022332c144c604b44e5987b1ff05addafb1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You were rightfully assiduous about bringing me to the point of order on the nature of this debate and I ask you to do the same in respect to Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c85113d74ce4417b4951514f222fda5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and I shall do so. Mr Brownlee, if you would oblige.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef40f8712e147eb88cb945e3324447e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am referring directly to matters that should be considered by a select committee over a longer period of time. I\u2019m very interested to know what the racing and sporting fraternity in this country would be keen to tell us about the idea that you can have a clause 21 holding out the hope that there\u2019ll be a funding stream from those who offer New Zealand sporting and racing events for gambling offshore, when, at the same time, there is an exemption in here available that can be granted by the Minister\u2014the same Minister who appoints this interim body, the same Minister who will appoint any successor body. Those are points that should be known to the public and will only be properly considered by a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAnother small problem, of course, is that this is a bill that\u2019s being sent to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, which has one of Mr Peters\u2019 closest lieutenants as its chair. Now, I\u2019m not suggesting that that\u2019s inappropriate, but it does indicate, again, that the intention is that there should be no change to this bill. Much as poor old Mr Patterson had to hold the line through 18 months in the Primary Production Committee, so will be the case here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022365f5602ced24084826302e72c181caf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I don\u2019t think it\u2019s proper that you are suggesting, Mr Brownlee, that the select committee process isn\u2019t robust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee68ddbe0a3485cbff45ac969fe3e76\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am certainly not suggesting that; I am suggesting that when a bill is only going for a short period of time in total to a select committee, the actual time that a select committee devotes to it is largely determined by the chair or the majority of that select committee. It is there that is the problem, because the opportunity for people to make representation on this bill is so very curtailed. So I would like to move an amendment to Mr Peters\u2019 motion that this bill be reported back to the House by 20 November 2019, and that the committee can sit any old time it likes, except a Friday or when there\u2019s a sitting of the House\u2014and, of course, to make sure that they get it done in that time, in a reasonable fashion, and it allows the whole industry to make their points known. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI move, That \u201C11 June 2019\u201D be replaced with \u201C20 November 2019\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe other point is: how many people know that this affects so many other sports in this country? It\u2019s called a Racing Reform Bill\u2014a Racing Reform Bill. Does that affect the rugby union? Yes, it does. Does it affect New Zealand Football? Yes, it does. They are reasons why this select committee process should not be truncated to such a short period of time. All of those bodies rely on the quality of their competition for any sports betting that might result from it. To have all that funnelled into an authority that is, effectively, going to be a racing authority is quite wrong. I believe strongly that this select committee process is too short, and I look forward to the House taking a more reasonable view and saying that it should get at least four months, if not six, for consideration by the wider community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ETo say that it\u2019s been consulted already and, therefore, no need\u2014well, those consultations were done by one gentleman and then the Minister himself. Wouldn\u2019t it be a good idea to allow the whole of a select committee and therefore the consultative arm of Parliament to actually ask those questions of the public, to hear what the public is saying, and, in particular, hear what those who are most affected by this bill are saying? This is not a transparent bill. It\u2019s not a transparent process; it\u2019s secretive. When you look at this clause 21, and you look at the huge volumes of money that can be involved, and also the potential for exemptions for some of the compliance in this, there is a need for deep select committee scrutiny\u2014no question about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I think that it is only fair that the House insist that this bill is in front of a select committee for a much longer period of time. If, in fact, all the claims made about the importance of this industry are true\u2014and I believe most of them are, particularly when it comes to employment and export opportunities, but not product because that\u2019s really in a bad way and needs to be sorted; but the bill won\u2019t do it so there\u2019s no point talking about this, because this bill changes nothing in that regard\u2014then I think it is even more important that there is a proper public process for the widest possible consideration of this bill. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022754dcf15844f4724b8742a7f408023ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022754dcf15844f4724b8742a7f408023ab\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002289df9d21f8fa40fbaafe6959508f7bb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289df9d21f8fa40fbaafe6959508f7bb4\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I intend to take a brief call on this motion. I guess I\u2019m not a particularly religious person, but Luke 23:24 says \u201CFather, forgive them, for they know not what they say.\u201D\u2014and that\u2019s what worries me most about the truncated select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think if you listen to the Minister\u2019s introduction to this section of the debate, he talked about the number of people that have been round the country consulting. The issue that worries us the most, I think, is the one that was raised by the Hon Nikki Kaye earlier on\u2014and that is the fact that the sporting sector doesn\u2019t appear to have been widely consulted on this. I know that they did submit at length on the earlier stages and on the call for submissions on the Messara report, but none the less we\u2019ve heard nothing from the Government on the fate of the sporting sector. I think that is a major concern for us and will be as we go into the select committee process. That\u2019s one of the reasons that we think the select committee process needs to be run over the normal course of time\u2014and it\u2019s unfortunate that it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe industry is an interesting industry\u2014and, as I said earlier, I\u2019ve been involved in this for a long, long time\u2014and it is a very complicated industry. The great value to New Zealand is not in the gambling and the gaming part of it; the great value to New Zealand is in the breeding. It would be very useful for us to have the opportunity, during that select committee stage, to hear extensively from the breeders of New Zealand, which I very much doubt will happen with any length given the shortness of the time that that select committee is going to be run for. I am also a great fan of the late John Clarke, and he was most famous for \u201CRugby, Racing and Beer\u201D, \u201Cdown under, they\u2019re mad over\u201D, and of course, that is what grips most New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b80242285204ecf8fcc4289918855e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, \u201CKick it in the guts, Trev.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268da75cb49994c89b803643e02a90cc8\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and most New Zealanders, therefore, have a very serious interest in the process that this bill undertakes. Whilst they have had the opportunities to submit earlier to it, I think that the truncating of the select committee process and the fact that it\u2019s going to run for two weeks will preclude a whole lot of people who have a great interest in making this industry the great industry it once was\u2014they won\u2019t have the opportunity to submit on it. We may well miss out, as a result of the shortened select committee process, on a whole lot of information that could otherwise have come to us. If the Government had moved on this earlier, there would be no need for a truncated select committee, because one of the primary factors that drive this is the fact that the racing year runs from 1 July, and it\u2019s necessary to have this in place by the time the racing industry starts its year. I think that that\u2019s unfortunate and, probably, the Government should have done a lot more work a lot earlier on this given that they\u2019d had the Messara report for at least six months. So those are the factors that I think are very concerning for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe offshore betting charges are another very complicated matter. When you think that this is being sent to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, a large part of this bill is a tax bill\u2014and tax bills, as anyone in this House will know, are very complex matters and they do need a lot of consideration. I\u2019ve not seen a tax bill go through this House yet that hasn\u2019t had significant alteration in the course of the select committee process, because you get all sorts of people who understand tax very well submitting on it. That\u2019s another thing that we\u2019re going to miss in the course of this, and I just hope that the bill as a result of that doesn\u2019t get sent back to the House at a later date for amendment\u2014as many of them do. So we are opposed to the shortened select committee process. I think it\u2019s a shame for the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think that some good will come of this in the end. But we\u2019re very concerned about, particularly, the sports betting part of this bill and where it ends up. The other piece we\u2019re very concerned about is the RITA\u2014or the Racing Industry Transitional Authority\u2014and the fact that there\u2019s no definite end date to that authority\u2019s appointment. I think appointing the RITA is a sensible option; the problem is that it doesn\u2019t have a finite date. That\u2019s an issue that we\u2019re very concerned about, and we\u2019d like to see some discussion on that in the course of the select committee process as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s my short contribution to this. I do think it\u2019s a concern to us all that it\u2019s been truncated in the manner it has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022df9c193799ef491c8b45a9f55e73415f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df9c193799ef491c8b45a9f55e73415f\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022401fadb487474803a2d28735a0ed4284\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022401fadb487474803a2d28735a0ed4284\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The Parliament is being asked to hugely truncate its capacity to scrutinise this legislation that is about the allocation of $2.8 billion a year in betting; it\u2019s a very serious issue. If the Minister had proposed to pick up the provisions that my colleague David Bennett developed\u2014very important provisions in this bill\u2014that provide for New Zealand getting a fairer revenue from overseas where there\u2019s betting on New Zealand, for the provisions that allow for the racing industry to get income on bets on racing events overseas, if that bill had been through a full select committee process and public submissions, I would have been quite relaxed. I think members on our side of the House would have said \u201CThose provisions have been well debated and we\u2019d be happy to support those.\u201D This bill goes well beyond that. This makes radical changes of which there are very substantive interests of which New Zealanders need to be able to have a say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECan I start with the first of those, in respect to the appointment of the board. The current racing board has representatives of all of the three codes\u2014thoroughbreds and the like\u2014and there has been no opportunity for those sectors to have any say. I\u2019m sure they\u2019ll be very interested to know that we are moving from a board where each of those codes appoints members to the board, to one where the Minister has absolute control and absolute discretion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a really big change in this bill, of which there needs to be proper scrutiny and the opportunity for public submissions: an issue, I suspect, as a former Minister of sport, and others in the House, will have a strong interest. At the moment, there is a guarantee in the law that for any sports bet, 5 percent goes to that national code; that\u2019s being repealed. Now, do the netballers, do the basketball association, do the mums that stand on the side in the winter and watch the rugby games, do the people that support hockey, do all those people know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95c71292cd04a65ae59a62cbf7322a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to remind the member that this is a very prescribed debate. It is a matter of the length of the submissions, length of the period for the report back, where the committee can meet, and similar things. We can\u2019t go into the substance of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292041cbae7c4494c9291bcd9b61a2d66\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Just speaking to a point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ee752d67f2b4586a017040f793d6ef6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there was no point of order; there\u2019s a ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e478584c7cf4c15bb274b55975d4207\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister in charge of this bill gave a very wide-ranging speech in respect of the shortened select committee period, and I just simply ask for the Chair to apply a consistent approach. The issue is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c94efaf7f07a46bcb02d3fc9033c8b5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! I told the member that there is not a point of order; there is a ruling. He will speak to the bill if he wants to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6bb7504ed844f3286e228a4a1d8b77e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very shortened period, of just two weeks, of which to give the opportunity for over 150 different sporting codes around New Zealand that are affected. With a period of just two weeks, how much, realistically, will there be the opportunity for all of those sports organisations to get their heads around these very significant changes around their current guarantee of 5 percent and for them to be able to make submissions and have proper input into that process, when the House is giving the select committee a period of only two weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also concerned about the information the committee will have. This Government says it\u2019s the most open and transparent Government, and yet the entire regulatory impact statement has been blocked out. How is the select committee, in two weeks, to get to the bottom of the very critical issues when the Government has chosen to block out every single page of the regulatory impact statement on the issue of removing the levy or the gaming levy that applies to the racing industry? I put it to the House that there is no way that the select committee can do justice to those very significant provisions repealing a gaming levy that has been about since 1972, in just two weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister, who has promoted this very short submission period, has said that \u201CWell, everybody who\u2019s affected has been consulted.\u201D Well, actually, there\u2019s a very significant group of people who have not been consulted. This bill proposes to give an exemption to the gaming levy only for sports betting and for horse racing, and leaves the levy for all those that are in either casinos, Lotto, or any other industry. Of course, they will be affected. We are setting up an un-level playing field where one sector is exempted from the levy but the others are not. The Lotteries Commission, those that receive funds from the Lotteries Commission, those that are affected\u2014in terms of those other industries that are involved in gaming\u2014who will be disadvantaged by this bill need a reasonable time frame to get around the 31 pages of this bill and the 14 clauses that directly impact on those others that provide gaming services, because this skews the level playing field heavily in favour of one form of gambling. The others? The others need to have the opportunity to be able to have their say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to point out that it is equally important for the racing codes to have the opportunity for submissions. That is because this bill repeals the formula by which there is the allocation of funding between the different sorts of racing codes. So rather than them having definitiveness around the amount of money that goes either to our greyhounds, to our harness racing, or to our thoroughbreds that\u2019s going, it\u2019s a matter of discretion. There needs to be the opportunity for every one of our thoroughbred clubs, every one of our greyhound racing clubs, every one of our harness racing clubs to get into the detail of this bill that makes very substantive changes to the repeal of the funding formula that affects hundreds of millions of dollars for that sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThis is a 31-page bill. This is a bill that has three schedules. This is a bill that has 100 subclauses. Does any member of this House really believe that two weeks is sufficient to be able to scrutinise a bill that is involved in the allocation and the distribution of $2.8 billion a year of betting activities? It is an insult. I want to point this out: why is it that the Government has 12 months to consider it? Why is it that in terms of the Messara review, there\u2019s six months of time and just two weeks for the Parliament? It is an absolute insult to the Parliament to be saying, \u201CWell, you get two weeks to test these issues but an independent review gets six months and the Government has actually had these issues for 12 months.\u201D Now, the Standing Orders set out and say that if a bill is provided for less than four months, we need to have a special debate. I\u2019ve seen bills that have said that they\u2019re set down for three months, maybe two months. Anybody who thinks this bill is going to have any substantive level of scrutiny in two weeks is really kidding themselves. It\u2019s deliberately being sent to a select committee that has no experience in the racing industry. It\u2019s solely being sent there because it\u2019s a chair of the committee, but the time frame they have to consider it is\u2014they did not consider the previous racing bill; they have no expertise in that area. The idea that the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, that has nothing to do with racing, is going to be able to give adequate scrutiny to this bill in two weeks is inadequate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI do make this point absolutely seriously: if there is any industry in the world that is open to corruption and needs transparency, it is the issue of the gambling industry. It is, more than any other, open to the risk of skulduggery, and yet this legislation is making huge changes to the way in which those hundreds of millions of dollars are being allocated. It is absolutely proper, if New Zealand wants to hang on to its reputation as the least corrupt and most transparent country in the world\u2014if we want to hang on to that reputation, by goodness, we need to make sure that legislation in the gaming industry is scrutinised properly, that we get the detail right, that we get the checks right. That simply is not possible with a two-week submission process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe process of this bill brings into huge question the probity of the way in which this country manages the $2.8 billion a year in the gaming industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022a81610e0722547b8ba7b0f481e258ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a81610e0722547b8ba7b0f481e258ef1\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225f81c4d6d3224f32b02cdfe908c98f90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f81c4d6d3224f32b02cdfe908c98f90\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not going to take it. Frankly, this is a very serious motion and we don\u2019t need that every 10 minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022652ddcedb0a742d6ba0e94101b404501\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022652ddcedb0a742d6ba0e94101b404501\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s really important for me to be speaking on this, as National\u2019s sport and recreation spokesperson. As I\u2019ve previously said, please be under no illusion, National does support the racing industry. I want to acknowledge David Bennett, Ian McKelvie, other members of our caucus, Nathan Guy, who have been around New Zealand talking to racing clubs, talking to other people in the industry, and discussing the real issues of financial viability of the sector. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve been very, very supportive of some of the work in the Messara review. That is a massive report. I want to acknowledge the work that has happened in the Messara review; it\u2019s crunched through some real issues of financial viability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EHowever\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the Speaker, who is in the Chair, who is a former Minister in the sport area\u2014we live in a nation that is very proud of our sporting success, and in order for us to be proud of our sporting success we acknowledge that many organisations in the sporting area run on the smell of an oily rag. No more important, then, could be our national sporting organisations\u2014that\u2019s New Zealand Rugby, Netball New Zealand, cricket. But it is incredibly relevant to this motion because we have been given, instead of the normal select committee process\u2014and I\u2019ve been on the phone to the sporting organisations\u2014effectively, a fortnight; a truncated bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe reality is we will be, on the National side of the House, absolutely raising the issues for rugby, cricket. I\u2019ve heard from tennis. I understand they had $1.179 million\u2014it\u2019s about 40 percent of their revenue. We will be raising\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ab7a94ae124afa87335f38e261448c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to do two points. One, I\u2019m going to remind the member that this is not a debate about the substance of the bill. It\u2019s about which committee it should go to, the time it should be there, and going around the country. But while I\u2019m on my feet, I\u2019m reminded that I should not have taken a call from Kieran McAnulty; we\u2019re not currently in the committee stages and, therefore, members can only have one call each on the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e671f38c736846a88aacf9040cef236e\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: So just coming back\u2014and I take the Speaker\u2019s point\u2014the reality is: this is about the time period that people will have to submit. Let\u2019s work through what that actually means for New Zealand rugby, New Zealand cricket, New Zealand netball, tennis, basketball, football. How will we ensure that they will have the ability to submit in a truncated time period? The reality\u2014and it is relevant to this truncated time period\u2014is there are many volunteers out there that might want to have their say, but the reality is: are they going to have the ability to have their say in a fortnight? That is why the members on this side of the House have, quite rightly, raised the fact that for 18 months the Government has, effectively, sat on a number of these changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIt is not as if many of the sporting codes have not raised these issues. The reason that they\u2019ve raised these issues\u2014it\u2019s been through the Messara report, and it\u2019s very relevant to the two-week time period that they will have to submit. They\u2019ve raised these issues before, and there are many thousands of volunteers as well who might want to have their say. National will be going out there ensuring not only the major sporting organisations know about it but also those thousands of volunteers on the ground\u2014whether they\u2019re coaches, people involved in these sporting organisations\u2014know about this legislation and the potential impact to kids\u2019 sport as a result of this, but also our major sporting organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI also want to mention the select committee that it\u2019s going to. Now, again, this does feel like a shonky process. It does. The reality is it\u2019s going to a member of New Zealand First who is chairing the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. This is incredibly relevant, because we do believe the major problem with this is that the bias has been to the racing industry and we haven\u2019t had the balance with the sporting industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe reality is that New Zealand First is on record as basically\u2014and, in fact, I can\u2019t quite quote. I\u2019ll go back and look through Hansard at what Winston Peters said in terms of the racing industry, but he said they were all over him like a rash. Well, the reality is that New Zealand First have shown, in my view, that they have been biased towards the racing industry. They haven\u2019t shown the balance with the sporting industry. That is not about National not supporting racing. Actually, what we can argue as a nation is that, actually, we should have balance when it comes to our sporting codes, and we should properly recognise them. So this issue of who chairs the select committee is incredibly relevant, because we feel on this side of the House that this has been\u2014I hate to say the words, and I might be running pretty close to the wind\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3fde633e0148dcbc90d0c9e43b4a66\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member already has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef58a513ec664037b78fd5cccd048164\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: It feels like a little bit of a dirty deal that\u2019s been done to ensure that New Zealand First gets its way, it chairs the select committee, and I need to make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286812a207539420ab95f0de269084854\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am now going to interrupt. I think the member is continuing to reflect on an officer of the House, a chair of a committee, and I think she should steer away from that now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c282a81a11427ca15d0881f5af9328\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I won\u2019t. Basically, we want balance, and we are concerned that this is being sent to a select committee which suits members opposite, particularly New Zealand First. We want to ensure that we have that balance, and so we\u2019re not only concerned about which select committee it\u2019s going to but also this issue of the time of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Hon Nick Smith\u2014you\u2019re looking at, potentially, 100-odd clauses in this bill. You are looking at real issues of gambling within the community, real issues of viability of the racing industry, real issues of viability of the sporting industry, and it is not OK for members opposite to say, \u201COh, well, we\u2019ve had another review, so that equates to the select committee parliamentary process.\u201D If we are really serious in this House, then we will not prop up a two-week process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ENow, look, National has gone over the line to support this in the first reading only because we actually do support the racing industry and we recognise the real issues of viability. But we are absolutely within our rights\u2014and I acknowledge the Hon Gerry Brownlee and the amendment that he has moved\u2014to say we need to do this in a considered way over a time period that enables the racing industry and the sports sector to have their say. That is why, you know, the Hon Gerry Brownlee has talked about a November time line, because that is reasonable. We have not heard from either the Deputy Prime Minister or from members opposite, in my view, the extent of why this is now so urgent 18 months in. Of course we understand there are longstanding issues of viability, but it feels like we have the Deputy Prime Minister sending something to a committee that they chair, where they\u2019ve got bias, potentially, around the racing industry, and we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb1d73294634bd0a7a3bc98dc49d078\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I have warned the member about reflecting on officers of the House, which includes select committee chairs, in that way. She can\u2019t, as part of this debate. Second warning\u2014last one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ae307f3aad449abcfd1442c54de3aa\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019ve taken on board that warning, and I will not use the word \u201Cbias\u201D around a select committee chair, but I would point out that New Zealand First has made a number of positive statements regarding the racing industry, as has National\u2014as has National. There have been a range of questions that have been raised publicly about the balance between sport and the racing industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what we will be doing on this side of the House is\u2014obviously, we have opposed the truncated time period, because we believe there are going to be mums and dads, volunteers, heads of sporting organisations, coaches, and other people on the ground from sporting organisations that will not have the ability to have their say in the select committee. It is not about not supporting the racing industry; it is about doing the decent thing as a country that\u2019s supposed to be built on the basis that sport is a great thing, to give them a chance to have their say. That\u2019s why we are opposing the truncated process, and that\u2019s why we are also asking very valid questions\u2014I\u2019m being very careful here, because I know I\u2019m on my second warning\u2014to say that we don\u2019t think it\u2019s right that we are sending it to that particular select committee. I will not repeat the statement that I previously made, but I would ask New Zealanders watching this debate to ask that basic question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIt is important in the parliamentary process to have balance. It is important to recognise that this is not just about the racing industry; it\u2019s about sporting codes as well\u2014real issues of millions and millions of dollars of funding for kids playing sport, and that is why we oppose not only this process in terms of the truncated time period, but we also have major concerns about the select committee that it\u2019s being sent to. We have every right, as Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition, to raise these issues around sport and racing, and that means, actually, we are doing our job. It does mean that we support not only racing but sporting organisations, but it means we believe in an integrity and an honesty of the parliamentary process above anything else, but also the ability for people to have their say. That\u2019s why I came to this House\u2014to ensure that people have that democratic right\u2014and members opposite are denying that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u00229c79ec5241df4effa5417d8af7856edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c79ec5241df4effa5417d8af7856edd\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I came down to this House tonight not necessarily thinking I was going to give a speech, but I have reflected on what I\u2019ve heard from the Government and it\u2019s got me slightly worked up. I actually detest\u2014I detest\u2014this process that is being followed. Here we are: all the Parliament is agreeing to going to first reading. As the Opposition, we are talking about the concerns that we have, and, largely, they are being laughed off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo here we have a piece of legislation that is going to a select committee for two weeks. Equally, it\u2019s going to a select committee that has no real or perceived expertise in this area, for whatever reason\u2014and I think my colleague the Hon Nikki Kaye has alluded to some of that. We came to this Parliament, and I came to this Parliament, to make the best possible legislation we could, and here we have, at the 11th hour, legislation that\u2019s introduced\u2014when it could have been introduced months ago into the House\u2014that has ramifications not just for the racing history but for a whole lot of sporting codes in New Zealand. If we appear passionate, it\u2019s because those sporting codes have no idea what\u2019s going on here, and all we can do is ask them to come and submit in a very short period. I\u2019ll remind this House: the Budget this week, the long weekend\u2014it\u2019s not going to be many days it\u2019s available to the select committee, despite all the resolutions that have been passed to actually get this legislation in a better shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI have been around New Zealand and I have talked to the racing industry, and the National Party does want to do its bit to support this industry. It has got some real difficulties, but as we do that\u2014as we do that, Mr Speaker; I\u2019m coming into it\u2014it is pretty unfair of this Parliament to bring in a whole lot of other people as part of this legislation and expect them to have a say on over a hundred points and a whole lot of sporting codes in two weeks. So I cannot understand, and cannot sit in this House without saying something, that legislation shouldn\u2019t be made in this way. This Government has had months to do this and has chosen, at the 11th hour in Budget week, to have a two-week select committee period\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269254a1ea65d446f9866921bd8c417e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m now going to interrupt the member and give him a warning. Repetition is not only internal to the member\u2019s speech but it\u2019s what other members have said. He\u2019s got to show some originality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a8dc2dc1f9347a88b2868c259cf888e\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ll consider that warning one; I don\u2019t think I\u2019ll need much more time to generate other warnings. My point is this: we in this Parliament are charged with making the best possible legislation we can. A two-week period is not enough. If you look at what the periods of consultation up until this point have been, there has been significant consultation on the bill. It came through first reading, it went to select committee, and then the Messara report had months. This Parliament, the decision-making body for the New Zealand people\u2014and all the consultation is being asked to be done in two weeks. Frankly, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s good enough, and I\u2019d be destitute in my obligations if I didn\u2019t say that to this Parliament. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022586ecff92c25408396cc9111ca8c4ee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022586ecff92c25408396cc9111ca8c4ee5\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We\u2019re debating this evening a truncated select committee process of just two weeks, and for a bill that is of this size\u2014three schedules, 31 pages, numerous changes\u2014it\u2019s worthy of a longer select committee period. I support Gerry Brownlee\u2019s amendment that says it should go out to November. That\u2019s fair enough for a bill of this size and the magnitude of the changes that this bill encompasses. I think that the 50,000 people that are associated with the racing industry deserve to be heard, and for the Minister for Racing to stand up in the House earlier and say, \u201COh, well, there\u2019s already been widespread consultation on the Messara report that generated 1,700 submissions. There\u2019s already been consultation on National\u2019s bill that we head through the Parliament and the select committee, the Racing Amendment Bill, so therefore we don\u2019t need to have widespread consultation.\u201D\u2014well, that\u2019s not the way that it\u2019s meant to work in this Parliament. How it\u2019s meant to work is that it\u2019s opened up for a decent amount of time so people can submit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been in this Parliament long enough to know that rushed legislation means that at some point in time, it\u2019s likely to be back in this Parliament to be fixed up, because how can it be that just the 10 hours that the select committee is likely to be sitting over this period of time, when you take out the weekends and things\u2014that 10 hours can do justice to a bill of this magnitude. It can\u2019t. The select committee can\u2019t, and I don\u2019t support that the Transport and Infrastructure Committee is the right committee, because part of this bill is, indeed, it repeals the tax changes and taxation to do with gambling for the racing industry. So, surely, a bill that encompasses taxation should go to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I would\u2019ve thought that that\u2019s a logical place, but instead it\u2019s heading off to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. Normally, a bill of this magnitude would go to the Finance and Expenditure Committee or, indeed, across to the Primary Production Committee, where the bill that preceded this one indeed went to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve had quite a debate on the truncated select committee period\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226045837db7ff468c935fa1d2b5911492\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c69a642cc8bf4562aed09e9dcc2c6a85\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and what I want to conclude with is I don\u2019t think it\u2019s fair that the 50,000 people that are associated with the racing industry\u201417,000 jobs are created by the industry. I\u2019m not saying that all of them want to trundle into Wellington and be heard, but they\u2019ll need time to submit. They\u2019ll need time to read the bill. I just refer members to the two\u2014there are three schedules. Schedule 2, \u201CConsequential amendments to principal Act\u201D; Schedule 3, \u201CConsequential amendments to other enactments\u201D. The big one\u2014and you\u2019ll remember this from your time, Mr Speaker, as the previous Minister of sport\u2014takes the distribution section that\u2019s in the Act out of the Act and plonks it over in a regulatory-making power that the Minister and Cabinet can decide. Now, the question for the select committee and for those that no doubt want to submit: is this appropriate? Is it, indeed, going to be fair? I think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263745728e5104a50ae56d39b5e85f8e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I\u2019m going to do the last warning to this member, because he\u2019s very experienced, and that is that he\u2019s to talk about the time period or the committee, not the substance, and certainly not to draw my work on the select committee setting up the regime into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1fddf09e79e465c8927f3b29bb495a8\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: In summary, this truncated select committee I don\u2019t think is fair on the racing industry. Some of them will think that it should go through in two weeks because the racing season is just around the corner, but the reality is the Government\u2019s had a long period of time to get this bill ready and get it into the Parliament. They have had four or five months since the Messara report, so now, because they\u2019re\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002294d1d8696c484199aa93ef7e5b46bf5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294d1d8696c484199aa93ef7e5b46bf5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, OK, we haven\u2019t heard anything new for a while, so I\u2019m truncating the member\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfb62de29eb14b2fbf22c1d9fd751300\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfb62de29eb14b2fbf22c1d9fd751300\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf81a15a251144faacaced381b998d7c\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225667374c53244f4d86d955a971b12fb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225667374c53244f4d86d955a971b12fb6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Chris Penk\u2014last try to get something new.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022763661a4c0a64b7d8ef0d30e85ae7a64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022763661a4c0a64b7d8ef0d30e85ae7a64\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for your vote of confidence in that regard. Without going too far down a philosophical rabbit hole, the question is: how long is a piece of string? The answer, in this context, is that the piece of string needs to be long enough for the purpose. The purpose here that we\u2019re considering today is whether the select committee process will be long enough for its purpose\u2014namely, scrutinising this piece of legislation. To answer that\u2014my somewhat rhetorical question\u2014five key points. The first goes to fairness, the second is the non-obvious nature of the bill, the third is its complexity, the fourth is its length, and the fifth the interests involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo the first of those is an issue of fairness. It\u2019s an issue of fairness when there is not enough time allocated by this House for those who have rights that are tied up in this legislation to have an opportunity to make their views heard. The interests of natural justice require that all relevant voices do have an opportunity to be heard, and it will simply not be the case that there is enough time, physically, to allocate for the select committee members to hear from any such people within the time being proposed on the Government side of the House and against which we are pushing back very strongly indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe second is the non-obvious nature of the bill. It doesn\u2019t do what it says on the tin only; it also does a number of other things. I refer to the fact that we have in front of us something entitled a Racing Reform Bill that in fact affects and, essentially, amends a lot that is beyond the scope merely of racing within the realm of sport and, indeed, gaming as well. That point\u2019s been made by others on this side of the House, so I won\u2019t belabour that point any further. But it is a really key point in relation to allowing enough time for the select committee to promote the fact that there is this piece of legislation being considered by the House and that those who may not realise initially that they are going to be affected by it will have an opportunity to appear before the select committee of Parliament to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy third point, as promised: complexity. There are a large number of moving parts in this bill. It\u2019s not merely one aspect of racing reform, or reform broader than racing, as I\u2019ve alluded to. Within the realm of racing itself: gambling aspects, the nature of racing as a sport, the rationalisation of assets, and other aspects of reform of the industry that have been touched on by others on both sides of the House, including in the substantive debate. That complexity indicates that a reasonable period of time is needed by members of the public and, indeed, vested interests, quite rightly so, to be able to put their case forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFourth: the length of the bill. Others have touched on the number of pages and the number of clauses. It\u2019s worth noting, in respect of the amount of time that\u2019s going to be allowed for people to have their say on this bill in front of the select committee, that multiple other Acts and legislative instruments are going to be amended by it. My favourite Act that\u2019s going to be amended by it is the Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981. So those who need sufficient time to gather their thoughts on that important piece of legislation should be afforded the opportunity to do so. My favourite non-statutory legislative instrument that will be amended is the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism (Definitions) Amendment Regulations (No 2) 2018. I see lots of nods of recognition across the House, but those outside this House may need a bit more time within the select committee process to know that that\u2019s something that\u2019s dear to their heart, along with racing, and to know that the intersection of those two is such that they will need sufficient time to appear before the select committee and make their case. There\u2019ll need to be some very fast talking if that\u2019s to happen within two weeks, and I speak in the literal sense of fast talking as well as the metaphorical one in terms of the sleight of hand that might be performed by Government members if we allow them to perform such a truncated select committee process, as has been put in front of us today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy fifth and final point\u2014and I don\u2019t think that I\u2019ll need all of the time of my contribution\u2014is to note the interests involved. The fact that there are such high stakes, not only in the racing sense\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221952d138c78446359df3505237b20428\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon the pun\u2014pardon the pun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253cff1b764924e40a241c2dc12dcb5e6\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague Scott Simpson asks me to pardon the pun, or rather, perhaps, that I should ask others, but it\u2019s quite deliberate and unapologetic that I say there are high stakes involved when racing is concerned, for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D as well as for individual punters and their many runners and riders\u2014but I\u2019ve talked about the complexity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut when we\u2019re talking about billions of dollars, there are a lot of interests involved. They are significant interests, and to do due respect to that, not only from a purity of process point of view but also recognising what is involved here, a decent select committee process is highly essential. A key aspect of that is time, and, along with others on this side of the House, I submit to you that the Government should reconsider such a short period of time, as they are proposing, for the select committee consideration of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u002286ec3f81c2e249298b49b7e52896d8f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ec3f81c2e249298b49b7e52896d8f6\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6ad57e9c6504035bed2a865e1838d46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6ad57e9c6504035bed2a865e1838d46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s pretty unusual to do that when there\u2019s no one else going for the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002282145d14bdb34cafb6d635402485c75e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022441e4fe8f7c04544ae6975198d089296\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That \u201C11 June 2019\u201D be replaced with \u201C20 November 2019\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223b260bd3c6b54b4398ff8e9f05f5c466\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Racing Reform Bill be reported to the House by 11 June 2019 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2b9689a819047268ceb731e0b33e16b\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d00a088812b242c7b3dc5f065c46169a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000521\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 21 May on the Appropriation (2017/18 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224225e69a42224d70b54cde7ef573429c\u0022\u003EPrimary Sector (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc3e9941aa1c4212a6c6b10e2bd8a433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc3e9941aa1c4212a6c6b10e2bd8a433\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a great opportunity to have a chat this afternoon about the primary sector and the annual review for 2017-18, right up to this present day. It\u2019s a good opportunity, with the Minister Damien O\u2019Connor in the chair, to ask him a few questions through this process. It would be good to hear from him this afternoon about Mycoplasma bovis and, indeed, how he thinks that is tracking, because in the last month or so, there have been a lot of farmers second-guessing the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 (MPI\u2019s) response, particularly around poor communication and slow compensation payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EBut I want to say to the committee this afternoon that the National Party still does support phased eradication. We do acknowledge that this is a big response that involves Government and industry, but there\u2019s been some changes in the general feeling in the last four or five weeks or so. There have been several updates on numbers from tracing and things, and farmers, certainly as they move into moving day\u2014or moving weeks, as it more commonly is now, which is starting to occur at this point\u2014want to hear from the Minister that he, certainly, is on top of the response. I guess he\u2019ll also want to tell those that are listening out there in rural communities that farmers need to play their part in terms of animal tracing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s also interesting is that since we had the review, we had the Rob Delane report and MPI\u2019s scramble, with the Minister, when they had two different fruit flies that popped up in Auckland. Of course, they said in Opposition that they were going to stop all these incursions, but the reality is it\u2019s very hard to stop them. So they reached out to Mr Delane from Australia, who came in and, over about a month or six weeks, did a pretty good report, I thought. One thing that was very telling was he said that technology needs to play a very important role into the future with biosecurity, particularly scanners and the like. He also alluded to the fact that the processing area in Auckland International Airport is very congested, and he commented that those low-risk passengers should be fast-tracked through. We did, in Government, have a plan for that. We started a work stream\u2014Trusted Trader - Trusted Traveller\u2014and when the Government came in, they squashed that initiative. Now that, presumably, is going to be back on the table, so it wouldn\u2019t take too much for the Minister to dust off that report and have a look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat Mr Delane actually did say is that biosecurity is going to need, in the passenger pathway and the mail pathway, another $10 million to $20 million invested each year, was his belief. So I\u2019ll be interested. We\u2019re just a day or two away from reading the Budget, unless it leaks out in the next 24 or 48 hours to the National Party. I\u2019ll be interested to see if there is a line item picking up the recommendations from Rob Delane.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other thing that\u2019s really important to note is that we discovered after the election that the green lane route didn\u2019t have any detector dogs working between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. There have been 37,000 passengers that have come through the green lane without any dogs working on this particular exit route. What\u2019s been telling is that that occurred because there was a bit of a scrap with the unions about the roster. There was a bit of a culture in the small but very important dog detector team, and the Minister did nothing to close down that loophole that existed. Just over 37,000 passengers waltzed through the green lane in the early hours of the morning\u2014that\u2019s the size of Gisborne city. They waltzed on through at the time when we had Queensland fruit fly running rife in Auckland\u2014still there\u2019s a response under way there\u2014and the Tongan fruit fly as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the telling point: just quietly, around the time that the Delane report was in the Minister\u2019s hands, MPI decided to put the dogs back on the green lane route between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m., or, indeed, if there were no dogs, passengers couldn\u2019t travel through the green lane. That is very important. So there\u2019s been a seismic shift just in the last couple of months. There\u2019s been a seismic shift just in the response to do with closing down this loophole, and while the Minister said it was all operational, I\u2019m sure he had a hand to play in closing that route down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other thing that\u2019s been important for us when we reflect back to the reviews is Crown Irrigation, set up by this Government. All funding now has dried up for any projects that were in the pipeline that weren\u2019t contracted. The Minister\u2019s lucky that the Waimea Community Dam was contracted, because we had the biggest drought on record in the Tasman-Nelson area, and people were saying, \u201CWe need this dam.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThere needed to be a land swap. Would you believe that came through the Parliament and was supported. Hard to do under Ruataniwha, but OK to do on the Waimea dam, and I\u2019m disappointed that the Government has raided all of that funding from Crown Irrigation, and, actually, taken it and put it into trees, and I want to come on to trees in a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EImportantly, if we think about climate change\u2014and that\u2019s been very topical in the last couple of weeks, and will continue to be for the rest of this year, and, potentially, into next year\u2014if we want to get very serious about wrestling these emissions down, why wouldn\u2019t the Government allow the AgResearch trial on GE ryegrass to occur in New Zealand that\u2019s currently having to occur in Australia? The Minister will say \u201CWell, it\u2019s all about value\u201D, and \u201CWe extract all this value\u201D, and I\u2019ve heard him say we get billions of dollars from being GE-free. I\u2019ve never been able to see any report where that is confirmed, and, indeed, is the case. So GE ryegrass will reduce methane emissions by 23 percent and it\u2019s drought tolerant. So farmers and rural communities are looking for the tools in the toolbox to do the right thing for climate change, but this Government, because of the Greens\u2019 ideology, aren\u2019t prepared to even have a look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ENow just focusing in on the trees in the last couple of minutes that I do have; the Government came out and said \u201CWe want a billion trees planted\u201D, and as a result they thought, \u201CHow are we going to get this done?\u201D Well, one is subsidies, one is making the changes through the Overseas Investment Amendment Act, and they\u2019ve made those changes for forestry rights and the like. So now we are really starting to see this policy roll out in rural communities. I know the Minister has had delegations into his office really concerned about what this does mean for provincial New Zealand, and, importantly, rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EJust have a look at what happened last week\u2014and it played out on social media\u2014with the teacher at Kumeroa-Hopelands School over in the Tararua district. They\u2019ve been struggling to attract teachers into this very small but important primary school. The teachers\u2019 partner was working on a station on a farm, which was sold to forestry. So she\u2019s having to leave that community. They\u2019ve had to try and attract eight teachers over the last 15 years. So this is the impact that the one billion tree initiative is starting to have on rural communities. New Zealand First, while they crow about it, about how successful it\u2019s going to be, are now realising that they\u2019re going to need to do more than just a bumper sticker that\u2019s going to say, \u201CRight tree, right place, right time\u201D. It\u2019s going to take a lot more than that because rural communities are waking up to the fact that, when large tracts of agricultural land, carte blanche, are taken over by foreign investors and planted, and those that are involved in carbon farming and locked up for ever, the rural school goes, the roads get smashed in the process, the rugby club probably folds as well as a result, and rural communities are hollowed out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not opposed to planting trees, but the Government needs to be thinking about this policy intent, where it should be focused on the land that has a land class of five and above\u2014the hill country land\u2014instead of some of the most productive parts of the agriculture sector going into forestry. Jobs are a hell of a lot less in forestry than what they are in rural communities, and it won\u2019t be long before there\u2019ll be a group on the steps of Parliament protesting about the one billion trees. So I\u2019ve got several questions that I\u2019ve put to the Minister that I\u2019m keen to hear responses on. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022b677a3f2e2a54e489ceb32f26d0cec7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b677a3f2e2a54e489ceb32f26d0cec7f\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I take the opportunity to speak on behalf of New Zealand First on this primary industries review, and in the nick of time, I might say, because, if I was just listening to the National Party, and particularly that previous contribution, what a dire state rural New Zealand must be in. But what are the facts? We\u2019ve got record, record exports\u2014$46 billion this year. The Minister has just overseen a 7 percent rise. In fact, I was just looking at the news feed come up from the Rural News; the main headline: horticulture booming, $9.2 billion sector now. We\u2019ve got the red meat sector at over $10 billion, and, of course, we\u2019ve just had Fonterra come out with its forward projections for next year, which, at the top end, have got a seven in front, and we\u2019ve had three years of $6-plus payments. So we\u2019ve got a rural sector in rude health. Of course our exports, as a percentage of GDP, which were in decline under the last Government, are now in the ascension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo when we look at the estimates, and when we look at the Ministry for Primary Industries\u2019 contribution in particular, I\u2019m pleased the previous speaker Nathan Guy touched on the billion tree policy, because there is a lot of misinformation out there about this particular part of the policy. The billion trees policy, being overseen by Minister Jones, does not allow for mass afforestation. In fact, for the grants, only 300 hectares is the maximum you can apply for. Actually, if you look at the grants at the moment, there have been 36 grants to date, of which 30 of them have included native plantings, and 26 out of those 36 applications have been for less than 50 hectares. So to totally misrepresent the billion trees policy for afforestation of whole farms is not indeed correct, and it\u2019s misrepresenting the policy as it stands. It actually is right tree, right place, right purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAround two thirds of the grants are for native plantings to increase our biodiversity, to address some of our environmental water-quality issues, and, of course, helping with M\u0101ori land\u2014and some of those whose ownership structures are in trusts, etc.\u2014not always easy to get funding. This policy helps them get full value for their land. Of course, it\u2019s not all pine trees\u2014things like m\u0101nuka, where we\u2019re also getting the honey as well as, maybe, pine plantation or exotic forestry. So where the speculation is coming in some of these afforestation situations is, actually, from land speculators based on the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, and maybe anticipating a carbon price going through the roof. There are absolutely no grounds for suspecting that. In fact, there has been no such level beyond the $25 a tonne that is currently in the pipeline announced. So it is pure speculation that people might be buying farmland in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWhy are we doing that? Of course, because we\u2019re actually having to address the very serious issue of climate change. But it was actually something that the National Party signed us up for. Paula Bennett swanned off over to Paris in 2016. They did not have a single idea of how they were going to meet the commitments that were made. In fact, the only answer they had was to send $1.4 billion of New Zealand taxpayers\u2019 money overseas, every year, for 10 years, and much of that money was seen to be fraudulent\u2014they were fraudulent carbon credits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo we are actually putting some policies in place to address these very real issues and concerns, and they are commitments that were made by the previous Government, and it is us that will be delivering. With the time left, there is $1.7 billion worth of hectares of forestry. There is 8.6 million hectares of sheep and beef land. So the billion tree policy is set to make between 230 and 430 extra hectares of farmland into forestry, which, actually, presents about 5 percent of the available land. So there is a lot of scaremongering going on about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022caa0de30ca0645a8b90d23d08108c195\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caa0de30ca0645a8b90d23d08108c195\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chairperson, and I\u2019d like to take the opportunity to take a call here. It is an exciting and privileged time, I guess, to be Minister for Agriculture and Minister for Biosecurity, and a few other things. Can I firstly acknowledge our coalition partners, without whom we wouldn\u2019t be able to govern, and do good things in the primary sectors, and my colleague Mark Patterson, who filled in for me at the Century Farm awards, a celebration in Lawrence of people who have been on the land for over 100 years. The night before, I was at the Ahuwhenua awards, celebrating people who have been on the land for a lot longer than 100 years, and that is our M\u0101ori. M\u0101ori agri-business is booming at the moment. It was a pleasure and an honour to be there at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Mark Patterson said, we\u2019ve seen a 7 percent increase in total growth of exports from our primary sectors. Can I thank and acknowledge all those people: the farmers, the horticulturalists, the forestry people, the fishers\u2014all those people out there who are helping create wealth for this country, supported by a Government that does care, not just about the cities, and not just about a few people who can accumulate all of those benefits, but actually every New Zealander. Our approach and our policy is that exports and trade should benefit each and every New Zealander. It\u2019s why we\u2019ve gone out and negotiated the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, which is new opportunities, which is why we\u2019re negotiating the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, which is a trade agreement we hope to get in place with half the world\u2019s population. But in creating those opportunities, we\u2019ve got to have industries that take them up, and then we\u2019ve got to have structures that share the benefits around. That\u2019s the difference between us and the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to respond to a couple of things raised by the Hon Nathan Guy in terms of M. bovis. Yes, when we came into Government, we were facing a big challenge. The previous Government had kind of been like a possum in the headlights with M. bovis\u2014hadn\u2019t really taken any crucial decisions, and so we had to get on to it. Can I say, nowhere else in the world has this been done. We are not perfect and mistakes have been made, but I have to say that we\u2019re still on track to eradicate this disease. No one else has done so. If we can do that, we will save, over time, literally billions and billions of dollars for farmers\u2014people at the front line\u2014through animal medicines and through productivity that can still be maintained at some of the best levels across the world. There are a lot of reasons to get rid of M. bovis, but we had a NAIT system that had been in place for about five years, and hadn\u2019t been enforced, hadn\u2019t been followed through, and, indeed, even this week we had to expose the reality that there\u2019s still a bit of a casual approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, farmers have told me in the last day or two, quite rightfully, that the NAIT system\u2019s still not working well. Well, I accept their criticism, but NAIT is something owned by Beef and Lamb New Zealand, DairyNZ, MPI, and Deer Industry New Zealand. It\u2019s not just MPI\u2019s responsibility. So while we get all the criticism, the fact is that industry organisations have to step up and make sure that their softly softly approach to NAIT\u2014as it was under the National Government\u2014has been stepped up. But there\u2019s a whole lot of work to be done in making sure that the 0800 number can be answered in a timely fashion, that the online connection can be effective, and that farmers aren\u2019t facing unnecessary hurdles in trying to record the stock movements that go on every single day on and off their farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say that we will sort that out. We will change the law and the resources we put in, but it\u2019s not MPI\u2019s fault. We will assist with regulation, with the law, and as part of that management regime, but it is important that farmers and MPI and Deer Industry New Zealand and Beef and Lamb New Zealand all share the burden and get on and do as best we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn regards to the Delane report, which was an investigation into the pathways off the back of fruit fly, I share a view of Nathan Guy that it was a good report and that it identified a couple of pathways that we know are risky\u2014and that is New Zealand Post: with the growth in the online purchases from all around the world into New Zealand, that has come under huge pressure. But it\u2019s been under pressure, I have to say, not just for the last 18 months but actually for years. The National Government refused to work with New Zealand Post to upgrade that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s move to the airport. Auckland International Airport is a disgrace. It\u2019s a disgrace when people come into this country and, firstly, face the biosecurity and customs requirements from us, because they\u2019ve invested in car-parks, they\u2019ve invested in buildings, they\u2019ve invested in everything other than in the area of biosecurity. I have to say that we\u2019ve had some blunt conversations with them\u2014and I\u2019ll continue to do that because it is really important that we welcome people. And while the previous Government wanted to fast-track people in, what we are saying is, \u201CNo, sorry, biosecurity is too important, and we are not going to fast-track people if there is a risk, and we\u2019ll upgrade.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, the fact about the dogs that the Opposition go on and on about is, look, they set up the dog structure and the regime around the shifts. There was tension, I accept, and we\u2019ve moved to sort that out. We\u2019ve put one scanner in so that we can check all bags. We\u2019re going to get another scanner. We will upgrade and invest in biosecurity because it is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just acknowledge the good people in Auckland for their cooperation: Northcote, Devonport, and South Auckland, where we\u2019ve had the fruit fly. They have been incredibly supportive and understanding in working with Biosecurity New Zealand to try and catch every one of those flies. Thank you for your cooperation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just go on to the trees, as this was mentioned\u2014Te Uru R\u0101kau; yes, we do want to plant a lot of trees. I have to say, finally, after years and years of neglect, forestry\u2019s got its day in the sun. Can I acknowledge my colleague the Hon Shane Jones for really pushing ahead because forestry was important, and then was ignored, and now it\u2019s important again. We\u2019ve set up a separate unit called Te Uru R\u0101kau. They have some support, but, more importantly, they went and they have mapped the whole of New Zealand\u2014identifying areas where we can plant a billion trees plus and not have any impact on farmland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EYes, there are some lazy, speculative investors that are buying good farms\u2014not that many of them, to be fair, and it\u2019s been ramped up. I share their concern that we should not have good farmland planted in trees. There are plenty of other useful areas to plant trees\u2014the right tree in the right place. Watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say that we do accept that criticism, but we have to be realistic about what the level of threat is, and we\u2019re going to look at that. My colleague the Hon Shane Jones has acknowledged his part to play in that review that we are just looking at. Can I say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a135727f271404aa1c9e613d21f68bb\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Have you got a review under way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a3c7e3108e74d1b97b53f2dc9a20e49\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: No we don\u2019t have a review under way. We reflect on our actions every single day, because we are not as arrogant as the previous Government to think that we know everything. We listen, and we\u2019ll accept some criticism where it\u2019s warranted, and we\u2019ll make changes where needed, not the arrogance that we saw from the previous National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I talk in terms of the area of GE, because it was raised by the Opposition spokesperson about ryegrass. Well, there was a Government in place for nine years that had all the opportunity in the world to undertake these trials and, indeed, it didn\u2019t occur. Can I say that there are people that think we need to have a discussion on genetic engineering and the CRISPR technology, and I think that does need to take place. It\u2019s not the magical one bullet or solution to all the issues that we face. Those who put it forward as the solution are very naive. So we\u2019ll work with that as needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say, what we are doing\u2014and somewhere where we\u2019ve had an opportunity is somewhere like wool. Wool: biodegradable, renewable, been a part of our agricultural system and primary production for years and years\u2014totally neglected and nothing done for nine years. Well, we\u2019ve got a group working on the opportunities and, in my view, when we compliment the meat income in a dry-stock operation with wool and maybe some trees, we\u2019ll go back to mixed-farm models that are more resilient, that are more sustainable, and deliver more value from New Zealand, because we are not going to ask farmers just to double exports and just to double everything they do, which was the previous regime. We are saying to them that we will get more for what you do, not just ask you to do more, because we can\u2019t continue to drive agriculture and primary production without consideration of the environmental impacts and of the effect of labour on the skills that we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo we are, as a Government, taking a comprehensive look at where we need to go. I\u2019m proud of the work that has gone in and the approach that farmers are taking to make that transition. Wait for Thursday: we\u2019ll be in a position to show that we care, and we are committed to the people in this country who drive primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022936fe02f09964d2bb7146eb71c90caf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022936fe02f09964d2bb7146eb71c90caf3\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E In the short time that I\u2019ve got before the dinner break, I\u2019d just like to carry on from the conversation that Minister O\u2019Connor just started and talk about making farmers more profitable. I would say that if we\u2019re looking for silver bullets\u2014and they\u2019re very hard to find\u2014there isn\u2019t one right now on methane. If you\u2019re wanting to make farmers more profitable, then I would suggest we look at those methane targets that are currently in the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, because, actually, that\u2019s an unachievable target for farmers and something that\u2019s very difficult. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221ae12a9d4b74b0694ca7c9d931ebbd9\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d952c6c4bf5478186e99b40f5d14268\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the methane targets are very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223842dcd185ff4468a7dff864a3b5fee6\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Which target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c0853aac5084bee896d6012b4c0b9d2\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: The methane target. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b175d25ca32647ceaddbd71241a63384\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a range.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0b626b31234593bf8e27050852cd52\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let\u2019s just look at the range of methane targets and put it under some consideration, because that\u2019s an area that, actually, farmers are going to struggle to deal with with the tools that they currently have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EOn the whole climate change thing and the tree issue at the moment, a lot of our rural communities are really panicking about what\u2019s going to happen, about people coming in and buying their farms. So if there is, in fact, a plan which we haven\u2019t actually seen in terms of planting trees, then I think it\u2019s time that some of those rural communities were reassured around that planting plan because they just see a whole lot of trees coming at them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a2d72b063f4d4d80c6d1581e227210\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening, members. I hope we had a lovely dinner break. When we rose for the dinner break, we were debating the questions that the reports of the committees relevant to the primary sector be noted. Barbara Kuriger was speaking, and she has three minutes and 41 seconds remaining, should she so wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4fce7b93ef444e88ab4ca7f2e498358\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair, I do wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESo, just to recap on a couple of the topics we went into before we broke for the dinner break: one was methane, and talking about the confidence around methane and not putting penalties on when people don\u2019t have tools to fix a problem; I think the second one was around trees and the spattering of trees that are coming. People are willing to plant trees. There\u2019s half a million trees, native trees, being planted in Taranaki as we speak at the moment. We\u2019re planting them on our own farms, and we have been doing so since 1993. There\u2019s a fantastic number of trees that have gone into Taranaki, and the water quality is actually improving, so there\u2019s a proven process going on there. So people don\u2019t mind doing stuff and they\u2019ll do it voluntarily with a plan, but they are worried about all this forestry that\u2019s coming towards them. The Minister in the chair, Damien O\u2019Connor, mentioned before dinner that there was some plan around that. It would be helpful if the farmers knew what that plan was, because people will volunteer to do all sorts of things but they don\u2019t like having things done to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI then just wanted to touch on Mycoplasma bovis, and I know it\u2019s come up in the conversation before dinner, about National Animal Identification and Tracing (NAIT). I took another call before the dinner break about NAIT. We often hear the finger pointed at farmers about NAIT and not keeping records, etc. etc. But it was really interesting: the call I took before the dinner break talked about NAIT and TBfree New Zealand not talking to each other, and the MINDA system not talking to NAIT and TBfree. Back in the day, when I was in DairyNZ, we often talked about getting a one-stop shop\u2014and the Minister talked about all these other organisations that were involved, so we can\u2019t look in the rear-vision mirror now, but let\u2019s look forward. And farmers are getting confused because they think they\u2019ve done stuff and they think it\u2019s been transferred to the other half of the organisation, and that\u2019s, in effect, what\u2019s not happening. And so I think that\u2019s making it a problem around M. bovis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ENow, it would be one of the biggest things that you\u2019ve potentially appropriated, in your time as a Minister, and may well prove to be that over a long time, Minister O\u2019Connor\u2014the money that\u2019s been put aside for M. bovis. I do wonder, with some of this tracking and tracing. I heard you say recently\u2014and, I\u2019m sorry, I\u2019m using \u201Cyou\u201D in that tense, Madam Chair, because I\u2019m talking to the Minister about asking if it\u2019s still feasible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df3809b2abe48dbaca7b162376c5fc7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: You can talk about the Minister, rather than talk to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022925610a30e22433691af1ed32376c536\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah\u2014and I think it is a question that all of us should be asking in this House. It\u2019s a lot of money. There\u2019s been a lot of angst, and it\u2019s why we all hope that this awful disease is still able to be eradicated. I think it\u2019s a very good question, to keep asking where the offerings are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EI just wanted to finish on one thing, because GE ryegrass came up before. It\u2019s a topic that I think is less scary around the science, and more questions need to be answered about the marketing of it and how we want to see New Zealand as a country. So I would, you know, love to have a drought-free grass, but I do think we need to have the conversation. We talk about it often. It reminds me a little bit of the End of Life Choice Bill: you can actually avoid talking about things for a period of time, but at some point you actually have to get up and you have to talk about these topics and have a real hard-fought conversation about whether it\u2019s a feasible option for the future. So I would encourage you to do that, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u002283b30d6ba37144a1a5c2bf8507d3dcf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b30d6ba37144a1a5c2bf8507d3dcf9\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019d like to pick up from where Ms Kuriger just left off, actually, on the ryegrass. Now, this is an area that\u2019s been getting increasing profile recently, and it is an important area. When we look at the obligations in terms of what we\u2019re trying to achieve around reducing emissions profiles from agriculture, this is a potentially viable and exciting solution for that. And yet we\u2019re seeing some constraints around the ability to utilise that, to do field trials here in New Zealand and to then roll that out, because of the legislation we have, as a result of this grass being developed through gene-editing techniques. So I certainly do think that is a conversation that we need to have as a country and that we should be having, if we\u2019re looking at what are the best solutions across the board to meet these obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, I also want to touch on biosecurity, because the Mycoplasma bovis, in particular, has, rightly, dominated a number of contributions to this topic, because it has been such a massive area for the dairy sector but also the sheep and beef sector over the last 18 months or so now. I am encouraged by the progress that has been made. There are a few concerns I have, and they came up through the annual review process as well, and part of that was around the response on the ground. I commend the Minister in the chair, Damien O\u2019Connor, for the work he has done in this, because it is a challenging situation that he found himself in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d1d79032d14aca9bebedf2e09f39bc\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Why was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ff492a53fb4a22a6f371989e35604e\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and it needed a strong approach to make sure that we could work together on this\u2014and we took the politics out of it, actually, Mr McAnulty, because it was that serious and that important for the industry. I appreciate that might not be something you can get your head round, but certainly on this side we could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAnd so for us the challenges, though, came with actually playing that out on the ground, and how the communication happened between AsureQuality, in the field, and the farmers. Those subcontractors\u2014there were a number of concerns raised around that, from a communication perspective and the actual understanding of it, the ag-sector. And I know that presents a challenge in terms of how do you maintain a ready force to respond to an incursion like Mycoplasma bovis. But that is something that I would like to see some work put into, trying to create a better solution down the track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAlso on biosecurity, we heard a little bit earlier from Nathan Guy, and also the Minister in the chair in response, around the detector dogs at Auckland Airport. Biosecurity, for me, is such an important area that we need to make sure we continue to invest more in this space, because the $46 billion contribution from the primary industries relies so much on our ability to maintain that ring-fencing around New Zealand in terms of the potential incursions that might come. The detector dogs on that green lane at Auckland Airport are a big part of that. The former Minister, Nathan Guy, mentioned that between 2 and 5 a.m. they haven\u2019t been there, but now the commitment has been made to actually close down that green lane and ensure that people go in through more detailed scanning if the dogs are not available. But actually, having recently come back from a parliamentary delegation to Canada\u201420 past 5 in the morning we came through, there were no detector dogs and we were still going down the green lane at that time. I\u2019ll just point that out. We haven\u2019t got the solution yet, and I do really want to impress upon the Minister the importance of that, because that is something that we just cannot let slip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen already over the last few months now a few fruit fly incursions as well up in Auckland, and I would also like to reiterate the Minister\u2019s comments there in terms of how the local communities responded to that. I was really encouraged to see that the Northcote community in particular and the \u014Ctara community were responding well to the requirements placed on them to help minimise the potential impact of this biosecurity incursion. That is a big one for us, and we need to make sure that we\u2019re all continually pulling together to do our best on behalf of the primary industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, the other one I just want to touch on briefly is the trees, the half-billion-extra trees that the Government wants to plant\u2014and it\u2019s only half a billion because we know that the other half billion are actually planted already by the industry as part of the natural replacement cycle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b712213413a9432fbe2122f2efc4054a\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: What are you scaremongering about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d2f5a2cc18486e8b90e82e950f12a7\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: And what we heard from Mr Patterson, who\u2019s chipping in now, in his contribution a little earlier, was actually quite naive in that he suggested that because the grants were only for areas of up to 300 hectares, that was not going to be an issue and that we were not seeing significant areas of forestation of former sheep and beef farms. Well, I\u2019d suggest to Mr Patterson that perhaps he needs to go and talk to some rural communities and get outside of his speaking notes to understand that this is having an impact and that actually in the Wairoa area right now there\u2019s already been 8,000 hectares of sheep and beef land purchased for forestry issues, and that\u2019s an area we need to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00221eb8f0271c91487ebd6bf44b9423ff13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eb8f0271c91487ebd6bf44b9423ff13\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Since my name was referenced in that last speech, I do appreciate the opportunity. I will start with the contribution on the Mycoplasma bovis situation, in terms of how the Ministry for Primary Industries represented it to us within the annual review, and I just would like to talk about the politics of that. I would acknowledge Barbara Kuriger over there, who has played a role in taking some of the politics out of it\u2014Opposition members that have put their farmers first\u2014and I acknowledge the Minister, because I\u2019m sure that if the other members\u2019 experience is the same as mine, when you\u2019re taking cases\u2014he\u2019s actually reached into cases personally and tried to get resolution, which is not necessarily his role in an operational matter, but I think it shows that he is concerned about the individual farmers concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI do want to go back to that billion trees strategy, and I thought Mr van de Molen, obviously, wasn\u2019t listening to my previous contribution on this, because I did outline that it\u2019s not the billion trees strategy that is leading to mass afforestation; it is only a 300 hectare maximum. There has not been mass afforestation because of this policy. It is about right tree, right place, and right purpose, and there\u2019s lots of rules and stipulations that you have to go through before you can get those grants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENow, talking about being out amongst the farmers, well, I was actually one of seven coalition MPs at the Farm Forestry Association conference about 10 days ago at Rotorua. There was not a single National Party MP there. It\u2019s actually turned into a bit of a quiz question, \u201CWho is the National Party\u2019s forestry spokesman?\u201D, because nobody seems to know, and he certainly was not\u2014or she was certainly not\u2014at that conference while we were there, listening to those farmers and to some very sensible contributions about how forestry, as the Minister outlined before dinner, can fit into a more profitable farming system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not to say that we\u2019re not concerned, and I was pleased to hear the Minister reference that in his contribution as well. We don\u2019t want to see huge swathes of countryside turned into pine trees, and we haven\u2019t got a tin ear to that. We have heard, and are hearing\u2014and I know the Minister in the chair, and I know Minister Jones and other senior Ministers, Minister Sage, I believe, as well have received a delegation just yesterday\u2014from mayors. We are very engaged in this. If we pull the levers too hard as a Government\u2014we won\u2019t be arrogant enough, as the Minister said, and we will make some adjustments, but it is about acknowledging that concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIf we go on from that, part of that, of course, is our response to the climate change stuff. It\u2019s really important that we do our bit. We have made those commitments. The previous Government made those commitments on our behalf, and we are delivering on them. It\u2019s not fair to say that there are no tools in the tool box to address some of these things, and particularly the methane. In fact, there are three strands of technology in progress. One is genetics, and Kiritapu Allan and I were at the Livestock Improvement Corporation the other day, a couple weeks ago. They were outlining their programme for genetically breeding more efficient animals, and they believe they can get a 10 percent reduction over that 30-year period. So that\u2019s a fair bit of the heavy lifting we can do with genetics, with just the technology that we\u2019ve got available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe need to tell that story a little bit more. I think that to just scaremonger and say there\u2019s no tools out there\u2014the tools are coming and we do have some time. Actually, credit to the previous Government and John Key: I think he set up that greenhouse gas alliance at Massey, where we\u2019ve got work going on, an international effort, to get vaccines that can make gut efficiencies and the like, which will reduce methane emissions. And, of course, we have got those grasses that AgResearch are developing. We do have to have that conversation about those grasses and their place. If farmers are being asked to make a contribution, they will want the tools and we do have to have that discussion. There may be a trade-off, but it\u2019s a discussion that we absolutely have to have in place. Actually, because, of the work that New Zealand First did in structuring that zero carbon bill to mean that future Parliaments have got the chance to reassess where those levels are, should those technologies take a little bit longer, we\u2019ve really future-proofed\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022 data-id=\u00224187ae8fa3904af88cd87d46ff8fc77e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224187ae8fa3904af88cd87d46ff8fc77e\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for this call. I\u2019d just like to thank that previous speaker. Mark and I actually enjoyed a very good night on Saturday night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00938b0bef246aba8b8e95362fed481\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Refer to the member with his full name, please. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795e2f9ee2dd456dbbb9b6addddfe377\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry; Mark Patterson, Madam Assistant Speaker. We enjoyed a lovely night in Lawrence, where Mark actually lives\u2014he\u2019s been there for about 10 years\u2014on Saturday night. It was the Century Farm awards. For anyone out there, there\u2019s about 450 farms across the country. They have these centenary awards now. To get the award, you\u2019ve got to have a farm within the family for over 100 years, and I think on Saturday night there were about 40-odd farms that got awarded. But the favourite part of the night was seeing Mark get up. He actually delivered the Minister\u2019s speech, but prior to that he spoke for about 15 minutes, and what a delight it was. This was Mark Patterson\u2014he spent roughly 20 years in the National Party, a long-serving branch chair of the Lawrence wing of the National Party\u2014and he disagreed with a number of Government policies, in his speech, including Taratahi, Roxburgh children\u2019s camp, gene editing. So it was great to hear your contribution on Saturday night, Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EBut getting back to the appropriations, farmers have it all coming at them right now\u2014whether it\u2019s the land and water plan, with Minister Parker going on top, or whether it\u2019s the methane emissions targets, where they want to reach 23 to 47 percent. Farmers have agreed they can get to about 5 percent at the moment. With the current technology that\u2019s about, the current science available, they can reduce methane emissions for about 5 percent. But because they care about the environment, they\u2019ve agreed to get to about 10 percent, but to get to 10 percent we need new technology. We can\u2019t just dream up these methane emissions targets without getting new technology. And thank you, Mark Patterson, for your contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EForestry is currently owned by about 73 percent foreign\u2014foreign owned: 79 percent\u2014and currently we have over 10,000 hectares planted in forestry. Just this morning, I met with a couple of mayors who came and visited the National Party. They\u2019re so concerned about the forestry policy that they see communities getting completely destroyed, completely ripped apart, and so far we\u2019ve lost about 95 workers from the pastoral sector because of forestry. Now, it\u2019s not just the 95 workers we have to think about. One of those workers that came out publicly last week\u2014they got a job on a farm, they brought their wife in, and the wife worked at a local school. Because that farm\u2019s been bought by a foreign purchaser, both of their jobs are gone\u2014their two kids\u2014they all leave the communities. And that\u2019s just one example of when a farm worker leaves because the farm\u2019s purchased to be put into forestry. One size does not fit all with this one billion dollars tree programme. So that\u2019s a huge concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI just want to touch briefly on Landcorp. We had Landcorp come and present to the Primary Production Committee, and this was around the time when Landcorp had put in a one-month late submission to the Tax Working Group. Now, what was interesting is when we asked the chair why the submission was a month late, he couldn\u2019t really answer us. He had about half a dozen goes, and he finally said it was \u201CBecause one of our staff was overseas, offshore for a month, hence why we had to pay 11 grand to Ernst \u0026amp; Young to put in a submission to the Tax Working Group.\u201D What did they submit on? They submitted: they weren\u2019t opposed to a capital gains tax and they were quite open to four or five new environmental taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI think this is a complete slap in the face to the average farmer out there, trying to compete with the Government farmer. Farmers out there are working hard. They get up early. They don\u2019t have an unlimited chequebook, like the Government. And then to kick them in the guts, we have the Government farmer, Landcorp, come in and submit one month late to the Tax Working Group. Incredibly disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EI just want to touch lastly on Mycoplasma bovis. This is a huge concern across New Zealand and there are some frustrations at the moment. The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) staff and Assure Quality, who are on the ground, are working hard. I\u2019d like to knowledge the Minister. He\u2019s working hard with them. Communication: we need to work together to beat this, and often some of the problems come when we\u2019re not communicating with each other. So I\u2019d just like to acknowledge all the farmers caught up in this horrible beast and, in particular, the MPI staff, Assure Quality. I can assure farmers they are working hard, but it\u2019s incredibly difficult and we\u2019re all doing our part to try and beat this horrible thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00225fe1bc13602c49eb810d052b24bc5297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fe1bc13602c49eb810d052b24bc5297\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Here we go again. It seems that Mr van de Molen was correct: I cannot get my head around it. I cannot get my head around how the National Party are quite happy to do one thing in Government and say another thing in Opposition; how they can stand up here, member after member after member, and accuse this Government of not caring about biosecurity, when in 2012, they cut front-line biosecurity staff\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ee42db63d144fa7a164c502156c9994\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228acb1f8b2507460d9cea5aba6d3b7ac5\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: And they say that\u2019s not right. Well, I say to Mr Bayly that perhaps he\u2019d like to have a chat to 3 News, who reported this fact after doing an Official Information Act request to that former Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe thing is that with facts, members cannot hide behind them. They\u2019re trying very hard, but they cannot. They have touched on many things tonight, including the fruit fly incursion in Auckland, and I would like to quote the Minister on this: \u201CAs the fruit fly discovery in Auckland shows, our biosecurity system is facing ever-increasing pressures due to factors such as growing international trade, greater mobility of people and increasingly complex global \u2026 chains.\u201D, and \u201Cwe need to acknowledge New Zealand will always face threats from unwanted pests and diseases. It is simply impossible to eliminate all risk.\u201D I wonder, does the other side agree with that? They should, because that was Nathan Guy. That was Nathan Guy, the previous agriculture Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhen the fruit fly came to Auckland, he said it was impossible. Now, the National Party are in Opposition and they are laying blame at every opportunity they can and pointing fingers to the Minister. Well, once again, the facts have caught up to chase them. The fact is that this Government is delivering for the primary sector. Exports hit a new high in March, driven by dairy, meat, and forestry products. Exports of dairy products led the rise in exports, up $264 million\u2014that\u2019s a 22 percent rise\u2014to $1.4 billion in March. But if we were to only listen to the National Party, we would hear doom and we would hear gloom and we would think that this side of the House is out there for one sole purpose, and that\u2019s to drive down the agricultural sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve accused us of not liaising with the rural sector, despite the fact that on this side, we have a farmer as a Minister, we\u2019ve got a farmer as a spokesperson for our coalition partner here in New Zealand First, and we\u2019ve got regional and rural representatives right across the caucus in all three parties. But that doesn\u2019t fit their narrative, so they go on and they go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAnother thing that I find amazing is that they stand here tonight and they lament the fact that there are some farmers selling their private land to people that wish to grow trees. Now, I actually share their concerns, as does Minister Damien O\u2019Connor, as he said earlier. But I have to point out the hypocrisy here of the party on the other side, when they opposed any approach to restrict foreign ownership\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc530f35df3f4acda10105703f8ce76c\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. The member may be new, but he should surely know he cannot use that word in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a69c41e7fd47d29c42173b67bd0ad8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m the arbiter of what is acceptable in this House, so we\u2019ll continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225314cfa1e4744bc186a9de4061ed848a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Are you now saying that it\u2019s OK to accuse the other side of the House of hypocrisy and that\u2019s all right? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248bf220f3591444d97fa547e272ae70c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: It is up to me to determine what is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255a487780be04d72a96f6e751017de3c\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s now OK? All right\u2014OK, then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022264301880da643dea87cd5d3b0fc44b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. I thank the member, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12a0c8c29e84f7c8364bb175128e9e6\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. That was the word used, and the previous rulings have been very clear that that is an inappropriate word to use in this House. If you are now ruling otherwise, we would appreciate your clarification on that ruling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f66b9825e5743a9b6b4a8fcfc9889c8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I go back to what I have said before. It is actually up to me to make that judgment, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245273c1b34364bf78eeb16e3797e3ae7\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221013fbc5ce174c9d8acfd3d811bb7afe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: It is, Ms Collins\u2014it is. We\u2019ve had this conversation before. I will caution the member. This is a robust debate. We have had many, many very stirring speeches over the course of the last hour or so that this debate has been running, but I will caution the member. We are coming to the conclusion, I hope, of this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fabb30fa2d945e1be7ef8cf24ae57aa\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Can I just get this really clear: is it now in order in this Parliament, or should we call the Speaker? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df499db6560141fd9e8f53d1d2292d03\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I can help the member with that\u2014thank you. As I\u2019ve said before, it is up to the judgment of the Chair to decide whether that is a term that is appropriate in the context of which it is delivered. If the member had been here prior to this debate commencing, she would have realised that this debate has been very robust. There have been many discussions\u2014quite heated\u2014across the Chamber. I think in the context of what we have been discussing since this question was put about an hour ago, I have deemed it to be within that context. I have cautioned the member to be a little more circumspect. That is my view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022730d8bdb98a14865951ad083f9c1b2e1\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. A new point of order\u2014thank you, Madam Chair. Is it now in order for the Chair or a Speaker to refer to the absence of a member? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229bcc743672e4e2289d26a837ea30c2b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams)\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like to say to the member that I\u2019ve made a ruling on that particular comment. You are now bringing up a matter that is hypothetical. I will not entertain that. I will call Kieran McAnulty to continue with his call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef13eccdb99b4a28a34878a1b6c5037a\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. What I was saying earlier was that the National Party have been caught out, yet again, saying one thing when they were in Government and saying another thing now they\u2019re in Opposition, and a prime example of this is the one billion trees programme. When this Government sought to assist those who wanted to buy productive land by putting in reasonable rules on restricting foreign ownership, that side opposed it. That side is also opposed\u2014they get down and they jump on it at every opportunity\u2014whenever the discussion outside this House talks around restrictions on land use. Now they\u2019re standing here tonight and they\u2019re saying that the Government should be telling farm owners and landowners what to do with their land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8324447bee74e09955e1074056ec564\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Property rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022538d999107f6418fb90f57f90999a5c7\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Property rights. This is the party of individual responsibility and of property rights, but when it suits them they say one thing, and when it doesn\u2019t suit them they say another, and I call them out on it tonight. The fact is that despite Hamish Walker talking about it being 79 percent of foreign ownership in forestry, how much was foreign-owned when that Government was in power nine years ago? That\u2019s the question I pose to that side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs we refer to the topics and discussions that came up in appropriations in the Primary Production Committee, the forestry is clearly one that\u2019s stuck with them. But I do say to the other side that if they want to oppose it, oppose it on grounds that are consistent with policies you\u2019ve opposed or supported previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe other issue is that we\u2019ve heard no vision from the National Party tonight, unlike the Minister, who wants to bring this country from a country that is talking about volume to value. We\u2019ve heard no vision. All we\u2019ve heard is a cry for the good old days\u2014the conservative approach of \u201CLeave it alone and she\u2019ll be right. We know best.\u201D\u2014but where has that got us? I commend this Minister for leading this Government and moving this industry where it needs to go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4f434755339479b81fd1eb5839486d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4f434755339479b81fd1eb5839486d3\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Talofa lava. Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou. Kia ora. I agree with the previous National speaker, Hamish Walker, who talked about hard-working farmers in New Zealand. They are getting up early and working late in the day, but I don\u2019t believe those hard-working farmers are served by the tenor of the debate we\u2019ve seen tonight, because what they don\u2019t want to hear after the hard day in the fields is more platitudes and more slogans, in fact, highlighting the very failings of the previous Government when it comes to animal welfare. My message to the opposition is that while you\u2019re in Opposition, take the time to do some big thinking about the challenges to our primary industries. These are the challenges that this Government is grappling with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EYou know, I don\u2019t know if members are aware, but recently, the Beyond Meat company, who do the Beyond Burger\u2014the lab-based burger\u2014had the largest initial public offering of any company in the US since the dotcom bubble. It\u2019s simply incredible, the disruption our agricultural industries face in the coming years, so I challenge the Opposition to do some heavy lifting, intellectual thinking, about the challenges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat we know from consumers, who are increasingly embracing plant-based diets, vegetarian diets, is that what they\u2019re wanting is more discernment in their choice of food products. What they want to see is sustainability and animal welfare and to have climate emissions accounted for, and not just more empty slogans and opposition for opposition\u2019s sake. Just today, I met with the egg producers\u2019 board, who are rolling out a national network of individual egg labels, which are going to say for each individual egg whether they\u2019re free-range or whether they\u2019re barn-raised, because they know that\u2019s what their consumers in their markets are demanding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EYou know, we see Zespri with a single variety of kiwifruit exporting a billion dollars per annum as part of the $3 billion kiwifruit exports. We\u2019re seeing incredible sustainability initiatives which were replete in these documents about what the Government\u2019s spending. I think of great farmers such as Our Land of Milk and Honey that are really embracing sustainability principles as a way to reach those more discerning consumers in New Zealand and around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to biosecurity I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that\u2019s stepped up when it comes to Mycoplasma bovis and is improving the National Animal Identification and Tracing system, which the previous Government knew was falling over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to climate change emissions, what we\u2019re hearing from National was just genetic engineering. It\u2019s the only thing they\u2019re proposing, which is simply incredible given they didn\u2019t actually change the regime under the previous royal commission on the environment. Now, we don\u2019t need to risk our fast-growing $600 million - organic industry\u2014it\u2019s grown by 30 percent in the last three years\u2014by chasing the shimmer of genetic engineering which hasn\u2019t been proven to actually work. We know we\u2019ve got the tools already from feeds and from breeds. We\u2019ve already got the tools available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to animal welfare, here\u2019s an area where we can provide top quality food products to the rest of the world to the animal welfare standards they\u2019re demanding. That\u2019s why I was proud last year to pass the country-of-origin food labelling bill\u2014because Kiwi consumers want to be able to choose our high quality food products. But when it comes to issues such as rodeo, which don\u2019t reflect modern farming practices, international consumers are questioning animal welfare credentials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThen you look at issues such as live shipment and the scandal of what happened in Sri Lanka under the previous Government, with more than, I think, 10 percent of those cattle dying in Sri Lanka after that very long voyage from New Zealand to Sri Lanka. We know we can do better. When it comes to the issue of winter grazing, which we\u2019re going to increasingly see this winter, with animals literally giving birth in knee-high mud paddocks. Those aren\u2019t the animal welfare standards our Kiwi or international customers want to see. So here\u2019s some areas where the Green Party has been really proposing stricter animal welfare standards. This is part of embracing the future trend of agriculture because those customers are more discerning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAt the highest level, I think in the macro picture for New Zealand in the primary sector is when it comes to two of our biggest exports, tourism and agriculture. Is it simply cramming more tourists down in Fiordland? We are seeing the infrastructure pressures. Is it cramming more cows on paddocks? We\u2019re seeing the impact on our waterways. I\u2019d say our pathway is where there\u2019s no limit to the exports on innovation, which I\u2019ve talked about; higher standards, which I\u2019ve talked about; research and development, which I\u2019ve talked about; and sustainability. That\u2019s our future for a richer New Zealand and a richer agricultural sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022e00380c218f345d3ad5657b93a5f145a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e00380c218f345d3ad5657b93a5f145a\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, I\u2019ve just arrived into the Chamber, and I heard the end of a very fine speech from Hamish Walker, and then I heard a rather confused rant from the other side from a new member. The only positive thing he had to say\u2014you would think that an ambitious member, clearly ambitious, trying to climb the greasy pole would really glow positively about the Government\u2019s policies. But we didn\u2019t hear anything positive about their policies at all. But we did see, you know, a quite embarrassing currying up to the Minister in the hope that that will elevate his pitch further up the ladder. You never know; there could be a little titbit in the upcoming reshuffle. But, anyway, it was quite embarrassing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThen we heard a talk about GE from the Green member who clearly doesn\u2019t understand genetic engineering whatsoever. It is a wonderful opportunity for New Zealand and it should be something that we pursue. Agriculture would be the main beneficiary of it, as would climate change. But, no, science they believe in only when they agree with it. We already have 70 products on supermarket shelves that are genetically modified, something that seems to be forgotten. Anyone who\u2019s ever been to the dentist or had an operation will most likely have had cotton wool in their mouths or in their body wiping things up, which will almost certainly be genetically modified. And the number of medicines in this country in use that are genetically modified is quite a long list. So we have it here, we should be pursuing it, we have excellent grass potential with it. That ridiculous situation where the apple had to go to the USA to be tasted\u2014it couldn\u2019t even be tasted here; the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act needs to be upgraded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk a little bit about m\u0101taitai, and the issue that has happened with m\u0101taitai that was gazetted last year. But the process started back in 2015\u2014they\u2019ve been working through the process. M\u0101taitai is for a customary fishing reserve which is over South Island fishery waters. However, in Kaik\u014Dura 450 square kilometres of land has been identified, privately owned land, within a boundary of a m\u0101taitai. Now, it can\u2019t be in a boundary, but that\u2019s identified in the maps. None of those landowners were consulted; not one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI met with the Minister, Mr Nash, and I wanted to know why they had chosen not to notify those members. They advertised in newspapers that are not circulated in the area where these people live: a clear gap in the process. The Minister said \u201CWell, do you expect us to go and knock on everyone\u2019s door?\u201D, and I said \u201CWell, I at least expect you to write to them.\u201D And the Minister said, \u201CWell, how am I going to find out who they are?\u201D I said, \u201CWell, I know and I have far less resources than you do.\u201D And that is a clear breakdown in process. Not only that, there\u2019s a legal opinion saying that the whole process is ultra vires. It will be challenged, and the Minister will not look good as a result of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIf you step over people\u2019s property rights without consulting them, then that\u2019s a very dangerous road to go down, and yet the Minister has gone down that road. I think what is partly to blame is when the Minister signs off on it, he has to check that all of those processes have been followed as the law requires, and that wasn\u2019t the case. So there are some very angry people, quite rightly. I have no issue with m\u0101taitai. I think they\u2019re a wonderful vehicle, and it\u2019s a great process for customary fishing that should be adhered to. But the process is all important. You don\u2019t right one wrong by creating another, and that is what\u2019s happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on the billion trees, as has been talked about clearly while I haven\u2019t been here. But the important issue here is around property rights, as was talked about quite extensively in the banter across the Chamber. Actually, the issue is this is a separate property right to the forestry interests as to everybody else. They have up to a thousand hectares without virtually any process to go through, whereas any other land holding in New Zealand is a fraction of that. Foreign investment has been good for New Zealand, but we have one sector favoured over the other and it\u2019s going to kill rural communities. And we know who\u2019s done it, and the rural sector know who has done it, and it really is an appalling process. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002270547ee75f494f238001bb5be85f447b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the reports of committees relevant to the Primary Sector be noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReports of committees relevant to the Primary Sector noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab989af06bed41b2b43b29424c7180bd\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Housing Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1d23b4b341e4a06bd41b57172c0cd7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1d23b4b341e4a06bd41b57172c0cd7e\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Talofa lava. Ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou. Kia ora. As chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee, it\u2019s a huge privilege to facilitate this process, which plays a key role in the scrutiny of public spending and outcomes for New Zealanders and public entities. I\u2019d like to thank all the entities involved and all the members of the committee. I think we\u2019ve got the best little committee in the precinct thanks to some great members. We might not agree on everything or most things but I think we do it in a very constructive and positive way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAs chair it falls to me to, in a non-political way, outline the annual reviews. We heard from a number of entities and published reports summarising what we heard and our recommendations. It would be impossible for me to cover all the key aspects let alone the substantive detail of each of the reports, but I\u2019d like to highlight just a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe first and the largest entity we reviewed was the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). A major item the committee was interested in discussing was housing-related, from the social housing register, housing supply, and the transfer of the new Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, who took over many of the ministry\u2019s public housing and transitional housing functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe were concerned to learn of instances where sex offenders were housed in transitional housing facilities in the same accommodations as vulnerable families. We did hear, however, of moves to avoid this in the future, such as the memorandum of understanding, and we were reassured to hear that corrections no longer place the sex offenders in motels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe also heard about the changing office design and culture in MSD offices to make them more welcoming and user-friendly. The committee previously had the benefit of seeing upfront and personal a redesigned office on Willis Street in Wellington, and the positive changes we saw as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EFollowing on from this, we heard from Oranga Tamariki\u2014Ministry for Children, who look after our country\u2019s most precious resource. As of 30 June 2018, there were 6,350 children and young people in the ministry\u2019s care. Oranga Tamariki was created as a Government department on 1 April 2017 to support the wellbeing of children and young people\u2014taking on the functions of the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s Child, Youth and Family business unit; children\u2019s teams; and a large portion of the community investment teams. We heard of the large number of notifications of concern that it received. In 2017/2018, it received 92,247 notifications of concern; about 64,950 individual children were 41,780 of the notifications requiring further action. We heard how Oranga Tamariki is responding to this large and very important workload. We also heard about this housing provision that\u2019s worked, partnering with iwi and NGOs, and implementing the Child Poverty Reduction Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThe act of terrorism in Christchurch took place after our hearing with the Chief Censor, as part of the hearing into the Office of Film and Literature Classification. In the committee, we discussed the challenges of regulating offensive content such as the Facebook Live video of the atrocity, and the modern digital environment, with legislation dating back to 1993. We noted the wider regulatory review work of the Government. We also heard about the office\u2019s worsening financial position, with this financial year being the third year of deficits, and their current work to address ongoing forecast deficits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn its opening statement, Heritage New Zealand outlined some of its key achievements of the last year. It\u2019s recently restored several heritage sites including the Melanesian Mission in Mission Bay, Auckland; and rebuilt the Timeball tower in Lyttelton in Canterbury, which was destroyed by the 2011 Christchurch earthquakes. We inquired into a number of heritage issues from Ihum\u0101tao Stonefields site where Fletcher is planning to build 480 homes, acknowledging the 250th anniversary of Cook\u2019s landing, and the seismic strengthening of Turnbull House across the road from us here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe also inquired into the published substantive report to the Arts Council of New Zealand Toi Aotearoa, known as Creative New Zealand; and the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa board, who told us about their highlights in the last year and a host of issues they face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIn the reviews of Sport and Recreation New Zealand and Drug Free Sport New Zealand, we discussed drug testing and the impact of possible legislative change relating to cannabis, the wellbeing and integrity of athletes, and the demographics in achieving gender equity in sports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe also conducted hearings and published reports, tabled to the House, on the Social Investment Agency, Social Workers Registration Board, T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company, Ministry for Pacific Peoples, and the New Zealand Lotteries Commission. I will not have time to highlight the key areas, here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E To wrap up, as part of the annual review, we also tabled reports on the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, the Children\u2019s Commissioner, the Families Commission, the Ministry for Culture and Heritage, the Ministry for Women, the New Zealand Artificial Limbs Service, and the New Zealand Film Commission\u2014but we had no issues to bring to the attention of the House. I\u2019d like to thank everyone involved from the entities, the submitters, the select committee members, and the staff who have been part of this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002273ec015e5282448bb493822f74dee76b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ec015e5282448bb493822f74dee76b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, who is a very nice chair to deal with. I attended the hearing of Housing New Zealand Corporation and some of the other entities in relation to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESpeaking to Housing New Zealand Corporation: it\u2019s New Zealand\u2019s biggest landlord\u2014it\u2019s a big, wealthy landlord with $26.7 billion of housing portfolio, and a shareholder equity standing at about $22.3 billion\u2014in other words, it\u2019s got that much in it in terms of net assets. So, really, I would\u2019ve thought that Parliament might think that this great, big, enormous landlord might be trying to do the best it can. Well, some of us have got a lot of State houses, or Housing New Zealand houses, in our electorates, and I\u2019ve got to say that would be the worst landlord we\u2019ve got in the electorate of Papakura. We would have that as the worst one, because many people who go to Housing New Zealand don\u2019t have much of a choice. So the report back mentions that in 2015, the corporation announced it was intending to sell social houses to community housing providers over a number of years. It is actually a very good policy, because what we\u2019ve seen in New Zealand is, where the community social housing providers have taken those State houses, or former Housing New Zealand houses, they have done a lot more than just be a landlord; they have put around, in places like Masterton, where some of us have seen this operating, a real wraparound service, a social investment-type approach around helping families and people who are having to rent from the community services that help keep them in a really good space and deal with any issues around mental health or addictions or issues around anything else having to do with the poverty that people often find themselves in when they go to either community housing providers or Housing New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s interesting to hear about some of the work that\u2019s gone on around trying to make Housing New Zealand offices and Work and Income offices more friendly and user-friendly to the public. I would say to Parliament: when we are saying how wonderful this is, we also have to remember the health and safety obligations towards the staff and the people who work in those offices, understanding that they\u2019re often dealing with people under stress, and that as we\u2019ve seen in some parts of the country\u2014particularly what happened in the Work and Income office in Ashburton\u2014it is easy to say \u201CLet\u2019s all have everything open and easier and more accessible\u201D until a tragedy happens and people are murdered, which is what has happened in Ashburton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELooking at the supply of housing, it\u2019s great to hear that Housing New Zealand say that they\u2019re increasing the supply of houses. I just hope they\u2019re not waiting for KiwiBuild to do it for them, because there\u2019s not much being built there, despite the $2 billion put in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c9286b99504e9caef59ee0fab96fb8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How many have been built now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce03900674924f30997a74884a8c81ba\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014last year\u2019s Budget. Well, I think so far we\u2019ve got about 83 or maybe a hundred; but the 16,000 we\u2019re expecting in the term\u2014the only term of this Government\u2014has now dropped down to 1,535, as announced today by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things I was quite supportive of is this HUDA\u2014the Housing Urban Development Authority; it\u2019s a policy that the National Party certainly had in Government and were going to actually implement. That sounds like an excellent idea, doesn\u2019t it\u2014except that it is bringing together the Housing New Zealand Corporation and its subsidiary HLC; HLC was Hobsonville Land Company. Many in this House will remember that that was an excellent National Party project out in Hobsonville, and of course to take the name out, it\u2019s now called HLC and it has now been put in charge of the T\u0101maki redevelopment\u2014also an excellent National Party project which has been continued under the current Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s, of course, KiwiBuild\u2014no, definitely not a National Party policy. We\u2019ll claim no credit for KiwiBuild, and we\u2019re very grateful not to have to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I just wonder what\u2019s going on here. We\u2019ve got Housing New Zealand, whose job is to house tenants who otherwise may not be able to get private accommodation; then we have HLC, which is a developer of land; and then we have KiwiBuild, which is I don\u2019t know what\u2014I think it\u2019s really just the butt of jokes, isn\u2019t it? I mean, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s anything much else. I\u2019m just wondering how these three entities are going to manifest. The only reason I can see for putting HLC, KiwiBuild, and Housing New Zealand Corporation together is to raid the balance sheet of Housing New Zealand Corporation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fb7a1344534896947c170ff1d7be53\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272fe2f453b014b9e85d788cc44097638\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014there is no other reason to do this. I see a member on the other side calling out to me. Well, she can call out all she wants, but I will not support her over here. I think the National Party doesn\u2019t need her. What I would say to her is this: anyone who doubts this\u2014anyone who doubts it\u2014should just go back to the Budget documents from last year, which of course, this year\u2019s estimates are based on. What that says is, pretty clearly, that Housing New Zealand Corporation will be allowed to borrow lots of money, and its accounts used to borrow money for the Government. I would say that is exactly why this merger is being undertaken, because it\u2019s not as though Housing New Zealand isn\u2019t already big\u2014it has around 66,000 houses, give or take a thousand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is not the best landlord in this country. The best landlords are often community housing providers who don\u2019t just provide a roof over someone\u2019s head, or a family\u2019s head, but help families through often difficult and trying circumstances. I\u2019ve seen that work going on and I\u2019ve seen the work that\u2019s gone on with the New Zealand Housing Foundation, and the Waimahia Peninsula project and all of the people involved in that. That has actually created a community using what was previously Ministry of Justice land, which is unused, and building not just houses for people to live in as renters but also for people to buy\u2014shared equity, kaum\u0101tua homes, opportunities for people to buy a house and to be part of a community, or, if they couldn\u2019t buy a house at this stage, to become able to buy a house once they were able, financially, to do so. That\u2019s where the focus should be: around community housing. That\u2019s where the focus should be around the Housing New Zealand Corporation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Housing New Zealand Corporation is already enormous. If someone is a tenant and they now have a neighbour, or a neighbour moves into their neighbourhood and that neighbour is Housing New Zealand\u2019s tenant and they create social issues for their neighbour in terms of noise, or in terms of dogs, or in terms of just general threatening behaviour, the answer is, apparently, now: call the police. That\u2019s the only thing they can do. Housing New Zealand no longer evicts anti-social tenants, or tenants for anti-social behaviour. What that means is that more people turn up in our electorate offices saying, \u201CI have a tenant next door to me. I\u2019ve been living here for so many years. We\u2019ve got a good community of other State tenants and we\u2019ve got this person who\u2019s turned up and Housing New Zealand won\u2019t do anything about it\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWell, actually, I\u2019ve been a little bit remiss. I should have said they will do something about it\u2014what they do now is they remove the good tenant and they put in more badly behaved, anti-social tenants. So the vast majority of tenants that Housing New Zealand deal with are very good tenants doing their best, bringing up their children, looking after themselves. They do not deserve to have a rogue landlord who allows its tenants to behave in a way that is awful for other tenants. That is one of the issues around some of the changes made and referred to in this report. We have here \u201CThe focus on the needs of tenants\u201D\u2014what a great headline, except when one considers: who are the tenants that they\u2019re so focused on? Are they focused on the good tenants? Are they focused on the people who are just going about their lives, minding their own business and not causing trouble? I don\u2019t think so. I think they\u2019re focused on any tenant\u2014whether that tenant is a good one or a bad tenant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I think this corporation needs to do is to turn up and face the media. The chief executive of Housing New Zealand Corporation refuses to turn up and front for the media on almost every occasion. This is a huge portfolio, a huge entity\u2014front up, and the Minister could too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022940d6c724dd34c9eb2601e0ad74440da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022940d6c724dd34c9eb2601e0ad74440da\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Assistant Chair. Talofa lava. I greet you in Samoan both to acknowledge Samoan Language Week but also because the Ministry for Pacific Peoples is one of some 25 entities that the Social Services and Community Committee conducts annual reviews for. I want to begin, though, by addressing some of the\u2014gosh, I don\u2019t know where to start, really, with the member Judith Collins, who\u2019s just resumed her seat. She must really hate poor people\u2014that\u2019s all I can say. The fact that she began with almost five minutes of how much she loves the previous Government\u2019s policy of selling off State houses\u2014which is just the State abdicating its responsibility\u2014and was sneering at ambition, and aspiration; it was just woeful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI want to begin, actually, with one of the points that the Hon Judith Collins mentioned, and that was about the merger of Housing New Zealand with its subsidiary Hobsonville Land Company (HLC), along with KiwiBuild to become the Housing and Urban Development Authority. We did hear about that at the select committee and the intention, we were told, was to use the combined assets, resources, and expertise of these three agencies to drive the development of programmes for new State-affordable and market housing. How is that not transformational? How is that not aspirational? It absolutely is, and sneering at that is sneering at ambition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat about increasing the supply of State houses? Can I just, absolutely, underscore the fact that we heard that that mass State house sell-off has been stopped by this Government, which we on this side of the House, are absolutely delighted by. Not only that, but we heard that the corporation provides housing to a significant number of people, some 185,000 people who live in its properties. Of course, the Hon Judith Collins sneered at Housing New Zealand as well and said they were one of the worst landlords. I absolutely beg to differ. They have actually now become a compassionate landlord\u2014thanks to this Government\u2019s work as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019ve also heard that there\u2019s been a ramping up of the building programme with 2,500 houses that are under construction\u20142,500 houses, about 1,511 in Auckland alone. Building houses\u2014when we\u2019ve seen over the past nine years people living in cars\u2014and members opposite sneer. That\u2019s all they can do: sneer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWell, I\u2019m here to talk about what has been happening, what we\u2019ve heard at select committee that is actually working really well. We did hear that the building of new houses hasn\u2019t been as fast as would be ideal. But there are a number of factors for this\u2014there are a number of factors for this [Interruption]. We\u2019ve heard \u201Cthe corporation said that a number of factors affected its ability to build houses as quickly as it would like. It is a \u201Cbrownfield\u201D as opposed to a \u201Cgreenfield\u201D developer, and its consistently high occupancy rates (98 percent) reduce the number of opportunities to re-develop its properties\u201D. Housing New Zealand also told us that \u201Cits commitment to quality urban planning also can affect the pace\u201D. So they want to do it well, not just quickly and build any old houses for its State house tenants that members opposite continue to sneer at. The commitment involves going through a process with the community to determine with them what some of the best outcomes can be, and that, I think, we should be lauding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIn terms of buying houses now, Opposition members brought this up at the select committee hearing as well and sort of tried to look down on Housing New Zealand, in a sense, for buying houses. But at the end of the day, what we heard was that the corporation has been changing the way it works, and it actually said that \u201Cthe Government sets targets for how many houses it must have available for people to live in. Some of this target is met through [new builds]\u201D. The numbers that cannot be met through new builds must be met by buying houses. I don\u2019t see what\u2019s wrong with that. At the end of the day, it\u2019s about people having a roof that is warm, dry, and safe over their heads. So let\u2019s not quibble about how that happens\u2014the fact remains that it is happening under this Government, and we did hear that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other point that I\u2019d like to make is also about the changing of culture, and this sits across both Housing New Zealand as well as the Ministry of Social Development who, of course, we heard from as well. In terms of Housing New Zealand, and this goes back to one of the previous points made by the Hon Judith Collins, Housing New Zealand actually is taking a much more compassionate view of its tenants. I just want to, actually, elaborate on what we heard in response to the Hon Judith Collins\u2019 view that tenants who are destructive or disruptive are no longer being evicted, because that\u2019s not actually true. We heard that from Housing New Zealand who have told us that they actually have intensive tenancy management teams, who work with those people who have been disruptive in the past to help them to manage their behaviours. Evicting tenants just shifts the cost\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3cc5987476647989bd8942aec1cf82e\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: To somewhere else in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022300fd4e73b5e4d07a4ade47a2f0dbcf0\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to a different pool of Government money in some other part of the community\u2014that\u2019s absolutely right, Jan Tinetti\u2014towards emergency accommodation, for example, like motels. How is that the better solution? How is working with these people to change their behaviour not the better solution? But of course we didn\u2019t hear that from the member, did we? She also didn\u2019t talk about the fact that Housing New Zealand now has a much more focused approach when it comes to the needs of tenants. It\u2019s actually much easier for tenants to interact with Housing New Zealand. They have an expanding range of services to support the needs of various groups of tenants, and they match homes built with those needs as well. So a much better approach is what we\u2019ve heard in terms of the culture change at Housing New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe same applies to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), where changes have been made. We heard through the annual review process about the Client Commitment Charter, with goals of giving people the best possible services and providing them with information that they need to access services. This is key, because we know\u2014we\u2019ve heard from members opposite\u2014the fact that, for example, their applications have increased on the social housing register over the review period. That is true, but that\u2019s partly true because these people who need to be on that register have a greater awareness of what support is available\u2014something that they didn\u2019t have, necessarily, in the past. We also heard that an increasing number of households are moving from private rentals to public housing\u2014an increase in need\u2014and fewer people are exiting public housing. That goes right back to the issues around supply and housing that Housing New Zealand is trying to address as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other point I want to touch on that came out from the MSD portion of the annual reviews is an increase in the number of 18- to 24-year-olds who are receiving jobseeker support benefits. In response, what has been proposed, what has been implemented? The Mana in Mahi programme that we heard about as well, which supports employers to take on apprentices. Up to 4,000 young people will benefit this year alone from that one programme. So what we\u2019re seeing is an issue, and we\u2019ve seen a response over the annual review period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe other package that we heard about was the Families Package: 384,000 families with children better off by $75 per week on average, major changes to the Working for Families payments, the biggest boost in household income in a decade for thousands of families, the introduction of the Best Start payment, and the introduction of the winter energy payment that helps a million people stay warm this winter. Officials told us that there was a huge amount of work that went into ensuring that these were rolled out as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo, really, what we\u2019ve seen from across agencies through the annual review process\u2014some 25 or so entities that sit within the purview of this particular select committee\u2014is that the work that they are doing absolutely backs up the fact that this Government is transformative, it\u2019s aspirational, and I would encourage members opposite not to sneer at ambition. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce1591e07b2149b0ae773b87ba34c6a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce1591e07b2149b0ae773b87ba34c6a0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It is a great opportunity to speak in this annual review debate. It is actually the 2017-18 year that we are referring to here, and although I would love to traverse some of the housing issues that that member talked about\u2014and to say that the progress of building houses is a little slower than anticipated would have to be the greatest understatement not only of the day but probably of the year\u2014I want to focus my efforts in this contribution into the review of the Ministry of Social Development. This is the agency that has the greatest level of expenditure across any Government agency, so it is important to traverse and spend some time on scrutiny of their annual review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to start with one particular area, and that is what we heard in the annual review process from the chief executive and others, unfortunately, about the increase in the number of people on jobseeker benefits. In the report, as we heard, there was an increase of nearly 9,000, and it was somewhat interesting that they were forecasting that the number of people receiving jobseeker support would decrease. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The number of people on jobseeker benefits has increased. It is now over 11,000 more than there were a year ago. That is an absolute travesty that this Government, who supposedly is about kindness and wellbeing, is overseeing a significant increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ENow, why is that important? Well, this side of the House believes and understands that families are better off in work. If you look at many of these households, there are children involved, and we know\u2014we know from the data, we know from the evidence\u2014that the children in those households are generally worse off. So, yes, the Prime Minister may talk about children in poverty. Where the attention wasn\u2019t focused, and we heard about it in this annual review, was the zero plan\u2014zero plan\u2014for reducing the number of people on the jobseeker benefit. What we\u2019ve also seen is that the number of people 18 to 24, a critical age bracket\u2014that has actually gone up. There are more people now between the age of 18 to 24 not in employment, education, or training. So the member may have talked about places for 4,000. Actually, in the annual review, the officials weren\u2019t able to tell us how many of the NEETs were engaged in that programme, how many were entering the programme, what the capacity was, what the outcomes were\u2014zero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to talk about outcomes, because that was another element of the discussion in the annual review. If you think back, some of where the focus is in areas like jobseeker benefits, through what used to be in place but the Prime Minister cancelled, is around inter-agency work. Now, we\u2019ve heard quite a lot about this in the last few weeks, because supposedly this is the first wellbeing Budget where agencies have worked together. Well, we know that\u2019s absolute rubbish, and I want to talk about that in the context of family violence shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut just sticking on benefit numbers for a moment, and talking specifically about those on jobseeker benefits, we\u2019ve seen a significant increase, and the focus previously\u2014because we know how important it is for families to be in work, for families to be in charge of their lives, to be independent, to be able to provide greater opportunities for their children, and not to have children living in poverty. The opportunity to a better future is through work. So the previous Government measured those things, because, actually, those outcomes are important. It wasn\u2019t just a job for social development; it was a job for other agencies as well. So cross-agency work and inter-agency targets aren\u2019t new. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo it was interesting in this annual review to have a discussion about outcomes, measuring outcomes, and developing impact indicators. The ministry hadn\u2019t actually set any new ones, so, actually, I think in the meantime we may as well talk about the Better Public Services targets, because they\u2019re ones that we understand and know about. The other side groan. Actually, I don\u2019t think they realise that one of them was about reducing assaults on children. I would have thought that the other side had an interest in reducing the number of assaults on children. Oh, but no, they don\u2019t want to count that sort of thing because that might demonstrate that their words are just hot air and they\u2019re actually not delivering results for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, annual reviews are about the select committee being able to scrutinise the performance of an entity, in this case the Ministry of Social Development. We saw a number of areas where, actually, they weren\u2019t delivering for the most vulnerable New Zealanders. I\u2019ve talked about it in the area of benefit numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to shift to the area of family violence, because, as I said, we had targets around reducing the number of assaults on children, which we see as absolutely critical. We were actually quite pleased in the Budget last year, let alone what\u2019s been announced for this year\u2019s Budget, to see increased funding for family violence\u2014actually, in fact, the inter-agency work that was started when Amy Adams was the Minister of Justice, where 12 Ministers sat in a room and came up with a significant family violence system reform, as well as legislation that\u2019s now being passed in this House, and the integrated safety response, which we\u2019re pleased to see that this Government has seen the merit and seen the value and continued to fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe actually did think for a period of time that they might not. As for the supposed success of the Families Package, well, not so long ago in this House we talked about 25,000 New Zealanders that were paid the winter energy payment unlawfully. They were paid unlawfully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ad99a2528b42e6813df2217fbfeca9\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: And how did that happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68e507250294c9fbfbdad04dad5af65\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: So, yeah, I wonder how that happened. That kind of occurs when you have work that\u2019s put in place that is absolutely rushed, not thought through, and it means the Auditor-General has had to criticise not just the Minister for Social Development and the department for unlawful spending\u2014and, actually, even the fix now means that taxpayers are paying twice. There is a group of taxpayers\u2014a group of recipients, I should say\u2014who are getting their housing costs paid for, and they get a winter energy payment as well. But, actually, you know, the Government doesn\u2019t seem to worry about that. They don\u2019t worry about the fact that they are getting paid twice by taxpayers, but, actually, taxpayers do care. They care about the fact that their funds, their hard-earned tax, is making a difference, which is why we want to see from the Ministry of Social Development what those outcomes are\u2014so, of the $28 billion that they spend a year of Kiwis\u2019 hard-earned money, who\u2019s getting the support, what support are they getting, where are those people that are being supported, and what is the impact that that spend is having? Unfortunately, in too many of the areas that were scrutinised\u2014and this is only one of 25\u2014those answers weren\u2019t able to be provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo, yes, the Social Investment Agency still exists\u2014long may it last. Long may the Government see the use of data and evidence to solve very, very complex intergenerational challenges\u2014and no, this is not the first Government to talk about wellbeing. No, this is not the first Government to talk about inter-agency, cross-Ministers, cross-department\u2014actually, delivering of outcomes is the key. So whether it\u2019s reducing the number of people on benefit so that there are 60,000 fewer children living in poverty, and, actually, when it comes to\u2014and I\u2019m sure my colleagues will talk about children living in poverty, because far too many of them are in benefit-dependent homes. That\u2019s the unfortunate reality. There\u2019s nothing unkind about it; it\u2019s called the truth. Actually, in five years we lifted 85,000 children out of poverty. The Prime Minister\u2019s new target is for 80,000\u2014less than that\u2014in 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo don\u2019t talk to this side about not being ambitious. Don\u2019t talk to this side about not being aspirational for New Zealanders. This is a side who will hold the Government to account, who will hold the Government to account for delivering value for taxpayers, ensuring, whether it\u2019s family violence or getting people off benefit into jobs, into opportunities, we will hold the Government to account for every dollar spent to make sure that lives are improved as a result of what is spent in the Ministry of Social Development, amongst others. So whether it\u2019s reducing the number of people on benefit, whether it\u2019s reducing the number of children in poverty\u2014that side may laugh; actually, we think it\u2019s a serious business to reduce the number of assaults on children and to reduce the number of children living in poverty, so it\u2019s sad to see that that side don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022754800e3d9dc49539be8f4575b847f6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022754800e3d9dc49539be8f4575b847f6d\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Faatalofa atu. Manuia le Vaiaso o le Gagana Samoa. Happy Samoan Language Week. It is an absolute pleasure for me to speak on this year\u2019s annual review. The House has heard from the chair, Gareth Hughes, that we, the Social Services and Community Committee, reviewed 25 entities. I want to take this brief moment\u2014it\u2019d be remiss of me not to respond to the things that came from across the floor. I want to first of all refer to the member for Papakura, who spoke about the Housing New Zealand Corporation as the worst landlord ever. I think that\u2019s outrageous, because that means that she\u2019s confirming that they were the worst landlord in nine years\u2014in nine years\u2014when they were in Government. That\u2019s confirming that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWe also just heard from the member that has just left, Louise Upston. She spoke about the targets and numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022778df2530f354913b09b01d6b3fbf738\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Ah-ah, ah-ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a0b98aae97e48cf9a87514f611fb027\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t mention\u2014oh, thank you, Hunua, for that\u2014noted. We also heard that it was about targets and numbers. I am somebody who worked in the Ministry of Social Development\u2014a diligent public servant who turned political because of the fact that we were counting numbers and not focused on people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to just get back to this annual review. The thing that was prevalent in all the entities that came before the Social Services and Community Committee was the fact that it was focused on people. It was focused on people, whether it was the Ministry of Social Development that talked to us, that shared with us that they now have a thing called a client commitment charter, where they\u2019re teaching their staff at the front line\u2014and the front line includes the security people\u2014how to be empathetic and how to treat people with respect, teaching that. That is actually the front door before you start counting whatever\u2019s behind the door. Whether it was about Housing New Zealand talking about providing better services for tenants\u2014and when we talk about tenants, they were talking about employing recruiting staff who reflect the community that they live in. Housing New Zealand had talked to us about that. The Ministry of Social Development talked to us about how, when they were recruiting staff, they were recruiting people who reflect the community. I think one of the members across the floor talked about how there were more people now coming to the Ministry of Social Development for assistance, and maybe they\u2019re coming out because there actually is a human being behind the reception. There is a human factor in this. Maybe that\u2019s why they\u2019re coming out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI am relentlessly privileged to be in this as a member of Parliament, under the leadership of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern and, of course, the Minister Carmel Sepuloni. Actually, the Minister brings insights into being a client in the Ministry of Social Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo I just want to make a point that with the entities that came along, the thing that was prevalent for me was their focus on providing social services for community. When you unpick that, who are in those communities? People\u2014it is people who are in those communities. I want to thank everybody who\u2019s counting the numbers and reaching the targets. Those people have done well; they\u2019ve contributed to New Zealand, but I tell you what: everybody is a taxpayer in this country, and everybody is hard-working. Nobody wakes up in the morning and wants to be on the unemployment benefit\u2014nobody\u2014because we know that having the opportunity to work is a principle that we all enjoy in this House. It is a principle that we enjoy in this House, and that is what providing social service is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI know I\u2019m almost running out of time, but the thing that Housing New Zealand told us\u2014they told us that 2,188 homes\u2014they reiterated the numbers; 2,188 homes more that they\u2019ve added to Housing New Zealand\u2019s portfolio, more than the last Government did, which was on top of that 644 houses. I know that we\u2019re having a focus on people, where all the entities told us that having a focus on people\u2014we are now having a conversation, a conversation of how we can better serve the people of New Zealand, listening with a compassionate heart. Mr Chair, thank you very much. That\u2019s it for me tonight. M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228cb8423b6b434e84ac5c6f14554bbf39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cb8423b6b434e84ac5c6f14554bbf39\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. I wanted, in my contribution tonight, to focus in specifically on the aspect of the report dealing with fraud investigations and prosecutions, because I think it speaks clearly to the legacy of the previous Government and how much work this Government still has to do. We\u2019ve heard, from the previous speaker from the National Party, Louise Upston, an attitude about how people really need to be in paid work to have any hope of living a decent life in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI just want to speak to that and acknowledge that there are some people who are not able to be in paid work, for reasons of illness or disability, or the disability or illness of their children that they are caring for, and that when you continue only to focus on paid work, you are leaving them to lives of pain and illness and a loss of dignity. This Government is committed to changing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESpecifically, it was encouraging to see in this report that there has been a two-thirds decrease in the number of people who have been prosecuted for benefit fraud in the last year. That\u2019s important because we know that beneficiaries have been unduly targeted, that most of those investigations have not resulted in any evidence of fraud, and that it has made every single beneficiary\u2019s life feel precarious and under scrutiny. We see that in the comparison between the treatment of tax evasion and welfare. Welfare fraud accounts for $30.6 million a year. That\u2019s significant, but when you compare it to the significantly underestimated $1.2 billion a year in estimated tax evasion, we get the significance of the difference in the response when 1,000 beneficiaries are prosecuted every year and there are only 60 to 80 cases of tax evasion. There has been undue focus to serve a narrative to bash the poor. That has served the previous Government, and when they say they have a commitment to wellbeing, it just makes my blood boil, because the experience of people in my community has been so at odds with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe saw the Privacy Commissioner\u2019s report last week about the treatment and the process of fraud investigations that were brought in by that previous Government in 2012, and he found that there was systematic misuse of investigatory powers\u2014that it was intrusive, excessive, and inconsistent with legal requirements. Somebody turned up to a meeting and had an intimate photo of themselves presented to them, in front of officials, that had been sent by text to somebody in their life\u2014that was presented to them. Who of us in this room would think that that was in any way acceptable? But that was an outcome of the policies of the previous Government that we are still living with the legacy of and that we need to undo with urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI want to recognise that the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) has called on this Government and our society to change those policies, and that they endorsed the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s current three-tiered approach towards alleged fraud that has been brought in now. But they also called on there to be an independent review of proceedings prior to the benefits review committee for prosecution of investigations\u2014that there be external oversight, because, clearly, those protections have not worked\u2014and prosecution practice to be explored and aligned with IRD so that there actually can be some consistency across our country, and we clearly need to address the definition of \u201Crelationship\u201D, because there is a danger at the moment. I read in the WEAG report that people supposedly have six months of living with somebody, but that is not happening in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo work needs to be done by this Government, and we are really proud in this party to have put this in our confidence and supply agreement, and we will keep pushing, because people in our community deserve dignity and the right to be treated fairly by this State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00223b2cb20522af49e5a50b37a1b717d461\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b2cb20522af49e5a50b37a1b717d461\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Talofa lava. It\u2019s great that we\u2019ve got Samoan Language Week. One of the joys of being inside the Social Services and Community Committee is that when officials come to visit us and we do a round of introductions\u2014our chair introduces us\u2014when they get around to Ms Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki, it often surprises the officials, because they\u2019re not sure about how to address her, because it just seems such a long name. But we often laugh a lot. We\u2019ve got good collegiality inside our select committee, and I want to acknowledge our chairperson as well, and the team there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to start off my contribution by being a little bit more positive than that last contribution that was just made, because there are some good things that have been had. Actually, when you look at the annual report, there\u2019s some good things that are here, and I just want to highlight some of those good things that are in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIf I go back to the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company, what a great opportunity in which a company is not only\u2014and by the way, this was the transfer. It wasn\u2019t a State sell-off; it was a transfer of stock of over 2,000 homes into the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company so that they could have a community-based approach of wraparound services. If anyone wants to go there\u2014we\u2019ve been there\u2014you would\u2019ve seen that not only did it create employment for local people but it also created an opportunity to have a community-led development approach. It\u2019s a great project. We thank those who are currently there, and\u2014that\u2019s right\u2014it was started by the National Government. It\u2019s a great initiative, doing very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s keep positive. We had the Social Workers Registration Board come through, and what did they talk about? The mandatory registration of social workers. We know that there were only 3,000 registered social workers, around about over 7,000 in total. There were 4,000 social workers that needed to be registered. It was something that was needed, and it was the time to do that. That was positive. That\u2019s right: again, it was started by the National Government\u2014a very good thing that was done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s then talk about Oranga Tamariki in particular. In fact, let\u2019s wait for that. Let\u2019s go back to housing. One of the big issues that has been a concern for the whole of the country has been homelessness. I know that the current coalition Government talked about homelessness\u2014that they were going to fix homelessness. When we heard at the annual review when they talked about it, the key plank initiative was Housing First. What a great initiative, because, again, it was a community-led development approach where providers came together. They dealt with the intensive care and needs of those in a homeless situation, and, again\u2014oh, that\u2019s right\u2014it was started by a National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EAll the good news that we\u2019re hearing in this annual review has all been by a National-led Government and its approach. So, fancy that. Thank you, National, for all the work that you\u2019ve been doing. It just seems like, on the other side, they didn\u2019t come into Government with any new ideas, so that\u2019s a real concern. They can crow all they like\u2014in fact, they\u2019re silent as the lambs now. Why? Because they know this is the truth. It\u2019s in the book. It is in the annual review. This is what people have been talking about. Give us one new idea\u2014something of difference, something of importance that they have come out with. But it\u2019s a bit of a sad story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not a baker, but here\u2019s what they say out there in baker land: the proof is in the pudding\u2014the proof is in the pudding. In other words, if you\u2019re going to put up, you\u2019ve got to be able to show that you\u2019ve made a difference. So let\u2019s talk about the proof in the pudding. One of those areas is that they said they\u2019re supporting core poverty\u2014\u201CPoverty reduction: we\u2019re going to make a huge difference.\u201D But when you\u2019ve got some of those people who were in the bakery, helping to bake the cake\u2014and here\u2019s what they said. They said that the current target by the current Government, by the child poverty reduction Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, is underwhelming. This is Alan Johnson from the Salvation Army. He was there, baking away, mixing away, hoping that they could make a difference. When it came to it: underwhelming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s why it\u2019s underwhelming: because the target was 23 percent. That\u2019s right; they said they were going to reduce it by 23 percent. Well, hello, another failed target\u2014another pudding that\u2019s flat. In other words, there\u2019s no yeast in there. There\u2019s no substance; it\u2019s just a flat pancake. So that\u2019s what they\u2019re selling on the other side. It\u2019s not cakes; it\u2019s pancakes. In other words, it\u2019s fallen flat again. So-called lifting the poverty reduction of children by 130,000 children in poverty won\u2019t happen, so what have they come to do? Right before Wellbeing Budget week, they\u2019ve turned around and said, \u201CLook, we\u2019re sorry; we didn\u2019t quite make it.\u201D Why? \u201CWe forgot the yeast. We didn\u2019t put the yeast in there.\u201D So what\u2019s going to happen? It\u2019s just a pancake. It\u2019s underwhelming, and when you get Susan St John, who is actually from the Child Poverty Action Group, we expected more\u2014we expected more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn my final 20 seconds, the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u201442 recommendations, and how many did they introduce? Three. So I have to say, with this annual review, the only good news is all the things that were committed by a National-led Government. Underwhelming\u2014a bunch of pancakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00220552f3eae8b14158813e1dee9aece2e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220552f3eae8b14158813e1dee9aece2e3\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. All that baker needs to worry about is why his flat Christian party cake didn\u2019t rise. That\u2019s the biggest issue in his debate. That member goes on to talk about all the things that the National Party supposedly did to improve the lives of our people, yet they still find themselves on that side of the House. What that tells us is, actually, there is a lot more work that needs to be done than just simply setting targets. It actually takes work to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOne of the biggest things that we\u2019ve heard, in the time we became Government, was clients saying that the biggest hurdle to them finding work was a system and a service that did not cater for them. It actually used more stick than carrot\u2014more stick than carrot. Guess what? Some of those scabs have been exposed from the last Government. Some of those supposedly good things have been exposed. All of a sudden, benefit fraud numbers, and the benefit fraud practices have been exposed. Who was in charge when that was made? That side of the House\u2014that\u2019s exactly right. So that side are saying that only some small number of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) report\u2014actually, no. If they read the papers properly instead of cherry-picking, they\u2019ll find that before the WEAG report came out, 15 recommendations were already under way. The work was being done in that space, but we know that it\u2019s going to take time. It takes some time and effort to unwind the practices that the former Government put in place, and that\u2019s a reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESome of those ways we can change the practice and the service that our people receive from a Government institution is a particular service that I think the Minister for Social Development is doing well, and that is to make sure that the services that our people receive actually reflect who they are. There is a kaupapa called Te Pae Tata, one that actually brings a stronger M\u0101ori focus to the work that the Ministry of Social Development are doing. We know the numbers in this space. We know that M\u0101ori are disproportionately represented in benefits statistics, and unemployment statistics. So therefore it\u2019s important, and P\u016Bao-te-ata-t\u016B, all the way back in 1987 and \u201988, recognised this. The Government needed a workforce that reflected the people they were serving. I\u2019ll repeat that: the Government needed a workforce, and practice, that reflected the people they were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo Te Pae Tata is definitely a move in the right direction. If that side of the House had heard how many of those beneficiaries have explained their interaction with their agency, with the agency of the Ministry of Social Development, they will know that there were serious problems with the service that they receive. This Government set out right from the beginning to change the culture of the Ministry of Social Development. We did that with simple things. That side might laugh, but, actually, the people matter. Simple things like the opportunity to drink water, access to the bathroom, an area that will allow tamariki who don\u2019t want to be in there, who find themselves carried to the desk and have to sit still in front of a case manager, an area to allow those tamariki to be tamariki. They sound like novel ideas to that side of the House, but to us that is a particular change in the culture of the way we serve our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESo we are excited on the side of the House. The Ministry of Social Development is only one part of this particular debate. There are so many others; housing. That side of the House is trying to say that our housing policies aren\u2019t up to the mark. Well, actually, it\u2019s really easy given that that side of the House set a really low bar. It was really easy to say, actually, we can do more. The member Alfred Ngaro who sat down before I stood to take the call, he said that, \u201CActually, the T\u0101maki Regeneration Company was the way forward for us to do that\u201D. Yes, there are some good parts of it. I\u2019ll admit to that. But what he didn\u2019t say was who actually owned the T\u0101maki Regeneration Company. He stated that it wasn\u2019t a sell-off; it was a transfer. Well, one need only look at the ownership model of the T\u0101maki Regeneration Company and the answer sits right there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWe are excited on the side of the House. This is only the beginning, because, what we know, and that side knows too, from the internal polling: we\u2019re here to stay\u2014we are here to stay\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and there\u2019s so much more work that we have to get done to make sure that we unwind all of the negative policies from the last Government, and they might laugh now, but their internal polling tells them; they know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002281ce9f3cc7434f7cbb4f7042f85de322\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ce9f3cc7434f7cbb4f7042f85de322\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. How great to be able to take a call in this annual review debate, and what a privilege it is to be part of a Government led by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, a Prime Minister who is bringing kindness back to our national life, who makes us proud on the international stage, and is willing to tackle the difficult, long-term challenges that were ignored and neglected for so many years over the last nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIf there\u2019s one issue that is emblematic of that failure to tackle the difficult long-term issues for so long, it\u2019s housing, and our Government is tackling housing in a more determined and wholehearted way than this country has seen in a very long time, and there\u2019s a huge need for support. There is a huge, pent-up need for people who have been shut out by the system, and we\u2019ve seen, over the financial year that we are discussing in this annual review, the public housing waiting list continually rise as the hidden homeless have come forward. Thousands and thousands of New Zealanders have been living in overcrowded housing, in cars, in garages, and in campgrounds, because for years they knew that there was not a Government there that would provide support. Under Jacinda Ardern\u2019s Government, they have people who have said, \u201CCome forward. If you don\u2019t have proper shelter, we will make sure you get a roof over your heads\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow there\u2019s been quite a lot of talk in this debate about public housing, and I want to make a few comments about that. In Budget 2018, we committed $234 million. Housing New Zealand are investing $4 billion off their balance sheet to increase the stock of public housing by an average of 1,600 every year, 6,500 over the four-year period. We are well on track to deliver that 1,600 in this financial year, and that stands in stark contrast to the record of the former Government, who sold down State housing so that there were 6,500 fewer State houses in New Zealand by the time they left Government with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222946aa4bbde54c8b98e91d90983759cd\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9834e22cd4b4f2a8ed51619cb2c17a5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: They should\u2019ve crawled shamefacedly away from this Government, but they didn\u2019t. We stopped the sell-off of State houses, and more than 1,900 more families are in public housing now than there were when we took office\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bce6114c134643b8b989eb6c585db1bc\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Over 11,000 on the list, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65527fa42294397ab967a9b88b7c990\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u20141,900 extra families. I know that Simon O\u2019Connor thinks that that\u2019s a sign of failure\u2014that putting people in State houses is a sign of failure, because, somehow, that means they\u2019re dependent on the taxpayer, and that is the mentality that we\u2019re trying to overcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very proud to say that not only are we building more State housing now than at any time in decades; we\u2019re building public houses in parts of New Zealand that haven\u2019t seen new public houses in decades. Housing New Zealand, under our Government, is a compassionate landlord. Now, when we became the Government, when I became the Minister, I was told by Housing New Zealand staff that they were told not to do pastoral care work with their tenants, that they were doing pastoral care work in their own time. Well, they are a compassionate landlord now under our policy. They are working directly with their tenants to make sure that they get a fair deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOur Government busted open the methamphetamine rort that was allowed to go on for years under the National Government. Housing New Zealand was spending $25 million every year on methamphetamine contamination testing and remediation that never needed to happen; a hundred million dollars wasted by that Government, and, in the time that we\u2019re debating under this annual review, we fixed that and we\u2019ve compensated 963 households to an average of $7,800, because they were tossed out under that Government for methamphetamine testing that never needed to be used as an excuse to evict State house tenants. So that is the shame of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EHousing New Zealand is making great progress. They are building more public housing than we\u2019ve seen in decades, and they are truly a compassionate landlord, looking after the tenants, doing the right thing, instead of demonising them and stigmatising them as we saw yet again tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002250cc2c8d2def46199ecf19c495055918\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250cc2c8d2def46199ecf19c495055918\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m very grateful that you\u2019ve taken my call. First of all, I\u2019d like to acknowledge Minister Twyford for having the courage to stand up and defend himself. I think one of the most remarkable things, watching tonight, is how, after a short period of time\u2014only 18 months\u2014those members over the other side there on the Government side have now got to the point where they\u2019re having to defend themselves. It\u2019s a very defensive posture you guys are showing tonight. Where are you proud about what you\u2019re doing? That is just missing tonight in these speeches. What we\u2019re hearing is, \u201COh, yes, yes. We\u2019re going to do that. We\u2019re trying to blame National for what they did 18 months ago.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWell, in the year of delivery, I now understand why. One of the areas that I think needs our attention most of all\u2014an industry that needs some oxygen\u2014is the building and construction sector. It\u2019s interesting that the biggest thing about the building and construction sector is its volatility. We\u2019re seeing these huge troughs and peaks, and what is happening now is we\u2019re seeing these companies go into receivership. That\u2019s really bad. It\u2019s bad for the people who want to build houses and the owners who\u2019ve put their money on the line. It\u2019s bad for the employees of the builders, but also what we\u2019re seeing is these larger builders going out of action and creating mayhem in this industry\u2014creating mayhem in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI can tell you that we are not over it yet. We\u2019ve already seen a whole lot of receiverships being announced, but we can guarantee that we\u2019re going to see some more. And if there\u2019s ever a time where we want to see a Government doing something, delivering on its promises, actually delivering something, now is the time. Unfortunately, we\u2019ve got a housing Minister who\u2019s struggling to deal with his own housing portfolio under KiwiBuild. But the biggest thing we want is someone to actually look after the wider industry\u2014the building and construction industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe first thing is we\u2019ve got a shortfall of apprenticeships in New Zealand. We have a 50,000 shortfall in the building and construction sector. You would think we\u2019d be looking at ways we\u2019re going to drive that forward, how we\u2019re going to bring in new people, how we\u2019re going to attract people out of the schools and into that wonderful array of industries in the building and construction sector. But what have we got? We\u2019ve got a Minister of tertiary education who wants to think that the only way to look after the building and construction sector is to centralise everything back into Wellington, because that\u2019s the way it should be. That is not going to address the construction sector shortfall and apprenticeships\u2014the people we want into that market to do the work that we need to build those houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing: seismic issues. We\u2019ve got huge seismic issues. We\u2019ve got a library just down the road\u2014big issues with hollow-core flooring. We\u2019ve got a Minister who doesn\u2019t want to even acknowledge it. We\u2019ve got issues with the system for accrediting people in this whole industry, and we\u2019ve got this wider issue of what\u2019s called \u201Cnon-structural elements\u201D. That is stuff that falls out of the roof and hits people, and we\u2019ve got a Minister not even worried about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got this whole issue about contracting. Guess what? After 18 months, we had seven Ministers\u2014I think it was seven\u2014turn up in Auckland to announce another working group to look at how we procure and contract. I\u2019ll tell you what; it\u2019s not a working group because it\u2019s called \u201Can accord\u201D. It is an accord. It is the Construction Sector Accord\u201418 months after she becomes a Minister, the Minister for Building and Construction announced an accord. When\u2019s that going to happen? In 12 months we\u2019ll finally get some outcomes about how we\u2019ve got to improve procurement and contracting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWell, I have to tell the committee tonight that there has been a lot of work already done on that. If you google \u201C3910\u201D, that is a procurement method that has already been through the rigour of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. That is the way we are meant to procure. If we actually started adopting that, that would probably go a long way to solving this issue. But just don\u2019t google \u201C3910 contracting model\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen the whole issue about risk sharing. We\u2019ve had Auckland\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7467d6d81314aceba1380903c858f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7467d6d81314aceba1380903c858f6e\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. I was listening to the shouty member who just took his seat, Andrew Bayly. No. Good passion there. It would be lovely to see passion across the House\u2014including the previous Government\u2019s passion, which we didn\u2019t see\u2014around income adequacy. I\u2019m speaking to the select committee and the annual review of social development, and understanding that what I welcome is the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s report, which made it incredibly clear that too many New Zealanders lead desperate lives with seriously inadequate incomes, and this must change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow, the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s report pulled together a diverse panel of people, chaired by the incredible Professor Cindy Kiro, representing communities, backgrounds, and specialties, and brought people together to come up with a blueprint that completely squashes three decades, at least, of a punitive approach, to make sure that people can live with dignity instead of trying just the narrow outcome narrative that says \u201CGet people off the benefit.\u201D Instead, it starts with a point of making sure people are treated and can live with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo it was really important for me to be able to look over the annual review of the Ministry of Social Development, understanding that this report is one of the most important pieces of work that the country and that this Government has seen for at least three decades. And I\u2019m proud that the Green Party put this agreement into our confidence and supply agreement. I am pleased that the Minister saw the wisdom of pulling together this diverse panel, where you end up having people like business leader Phil O\u2019Reilly staunching all over the media saying \u201CIncomes are not enough\u201D, and that they urgently have to increase now\u2014alongside the agreement of the rest of the panel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe Greens are very, very clear that this report, which canvassed across the country, which pulled on a range of researchers from both here and around the world, and which pulled together the leadership of the 11 panellists, came up with some consensus, agreed issues that need to be addressed. The Greens are very clear that we are here to support and implement those recommendations into existence so that we can move beyond a safety net, and actually towards a system that upholds the mana and the dignity of all people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI was so excited about getting up to talk about this that I forgot to address the House and celebrate our Samoan Language Week with talofa lava, so I\u2019ll do that right now as well. There is a fantastic phrase that I\u2019m going to give my best go at that I think captures where our ministry can head if we have got any sort of leadership and vision for how our country can truly be. I\u2019m going to give it my best go: \u201CE tua le fale tele i le faleo\u2019o\u201D, which, if I said it right, is supposed to say, \u201CEven the mighty need others\u201D. What that\u2019s talking about is that not any single one of us made it to any platform of success or dignity or wellbeing without help. What we are doing here is not just picking up a few things that need to change in our social support system but transforming our entire approach to the Government\u2019s responsibility for making sure that people have enough to live good lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe welfare report suggested that, across different benefits, the increases of base-benefit amounts can go up anywhere from 12 percent to 47 percent in order to make sure that people are in the best position to be a part of their community. The report was also very clear that there are many ways of contributing to being in your community\u2014they don\u2019t all include being in paid work. We have to make sure that we value the work and the participation that takes place in our homes, in our schools, in our social places, in our sporting places, in our marae, in our churches, and in our community places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022837d965a925545e88086a3b068fc7bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022837d965a925545e88086a3b068fc7bfc\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a privilege to be able to speak in this debate tonight, and can I acknowledge the co-leader of the Green Party for the speech that she\u2019s just given and also the fact that the Green Party, in our confidence and supply agreement, prompted the overhaul of the welfare system that this Government has committed to. Can I just say that I\u2019ve been listening to the speeches in the committee tonight, and I\u2019d like to respond to some of what is being said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFirstly, I want to start by acknowledging the Welfare Expert Advisory Group and the amazing job that they have done\u201411 members of that expert advisory group, who were deliberately selected because of the fact that they represented a broad spectrum of New Zealanders. We know, as a Government, that a broad spectrum of New Zealanders have to access the welfare system at some point in their lives, and so it was appropriate that we had that representation. The fact that those 11 members could come to a consensus on 42 recommendations really shows that, when you take an evidenced approach to something like this, that is this important, then actually you can get agreement. When it\u2019s not political ideology, when it is in fact an evidence-based decision-making process with a group of New Zealanders who perhaps never had that much to do with each other but are all looking out for the best interests of New Zealand, you can get consensus. So I want to acknowledge all of the members of that expert advisory group and particularly the leadership of Professor Cindy Kiro in bringing that group together and the amazing report that we were presented with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ECan I say that, really, coming into Government\u2014and this is reflected in the last year of action in the Ministry of Social Development (MSD)\u2014the overhaul didn\u2019t start from the report, but we needed the report to inform the work that the Government is doing. We started it immediately, and what we could do immediately was actually begin the culture change\u2014service delivery change\u2014that needed to happen in the Ministry of Social Development. It\u2019s very clear to me that, actually, both sides of the House do believe and support one thing we have in common, and that is that New Zealanders need to be supported, where able, into work and that employment needs to be a focus for us. We don\u2019t dispute that on this side of the House; in fact, we support that wholeheartedly, but the motivation\u2014the agenda\u2014behind that perhaps differs on the different sides of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe saw, with the previous Government\u2019s welfare reforms, that actually what happened when they were introduced was that, within 18 months of people going off benefit\u2014because that was actually their target; just reducing the number of people on benefit\u201450 percent of those people were back on benefit. I don\u2019t think any New Zealander would think that that is actually the optimum outcome. In fact, that really underpins our drive, which is to make sure that, yes, we support New Zealanders into meaningful and sustainable work, where they are able to take up that employment, but it has to be meaningful and sustainable employment, because we don\u2019t want to see the churn on and off benefit that we saw under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo our focus has been on how we create meaningful and sustainable employment opportunities for New Zealanders who do enter the welfare system, so that we can assure them that they are getting all the support that they need to actually do better for themselves and better for their families and to have better long-term prospects\u2014much better, I think, than the previous Government, who were focused on short-term numbers, getting people off benefit and trying to report on the fact that that was a positive outcome, when in fact it\u2019s proven not to be. So I don\u2019t apologise that, for the last year, MSD has been focused on improving their service delivery, improving the culture at MSD offices around the country, because every New Zealander who needs support from the welfare system deserves to be treated with dignity and to have their mana upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f98deb4201d94d20b1c1937edf6c973b\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: So does the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f1a620c0554dd69ea858ecdbeb6070\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I just heard from National that they\u2019re saying, \u201CWell, the taxpayers don\u2019t necessarily think that.\u201D Well, I\u2019m sure that, actually, the taxpayers do think that. For the 1.1 million New Zealanders who have to access the support of the welfare system, many of them are actually not on main benefits. There are actually 290,000 main beneficiaries\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022846afe67d55e4587ad8ad81ed1592566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022846afe67d55e4587ad8ad81ed1592566\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m really quite interested to get back to the annual reviews rather than the speeches we\u2019ve been getting for the Minister looking forward, but I do want to draw on one thing that the Minister resuming the chair was focused on. It\u2019s always big into those current buzzwords about consensus and diversity and bringing together 11 members of a diverse consensus public\u2014to do what? To bring about 42 recommendations. That was, arguably, a very diverse range of conclusions, but, do you know, of those 42 recommendations that the Minister has waxed lyrical about the hard work, three\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f8ed79998ca4927a6124ba224f152fa\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: That can\u2019t be true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f49bcef4819d4a2c9056e3cfef30d0cf\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: One, two, three\u2014it is true. It\u2019s shockingly true. And the problem is, of course, is that the fruit of diversity? Is that the fruit of a broad, consensus-based group? No, that is the fruit of incompetence, and we are seeing that more and more, of course, as we move towards the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELooking across the annual reviews\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220abd47e261214d25b5b714c303a523aa\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CFudge It\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6fd68dc05240d1940f0de5f780f327\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Not the \u201CFudge It\u201D; the Budget. Housing First\u2014I think we acknowledged, as we went through the select committee, it is a positive project. I think we have to acknowledge Amy Adams in particular in the National Party and the Canadians for introducing it\u2014great to see that the Labour Party\u2019s picked up on that. But where the wheels very, very quickly fall off, actually, first and foremost, starts in my own electorate of T\u0101maki. We had a huge hoopla at the last Budget, announcing\u2014big press release from the Minister of Housing and Urban Development, Phil Twyford\u2014\u201C2,100 more homes in T\u0101maki\u201D and, as the member for T\u0101maki, I decided to dig into that. Actually, there are not more houses; it\u2019s just going into the same number already. I would suggest a false statement, and I challenged officials in the House, and particularly when the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company came in front of me, because I said, \u201CThe Minister made a big announcement\u2014extra money, 2,100 more homes, here\u2019s the press release.\u201D What did they tell me? No, that\u2019s not the case\u2014not the case. That, for me, just sums up this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not even going to get on to KiwiBuild; it\u2019s not even worth it. In fact, I\u2019ve probably used, in this short sentence, more words than houses that have been built by KiwiBuild, but I will pick up on the whole meth-testing side of things. It\u2019s a challenge to the Minister that, as the pendulum swung from the accusation of National that we were too hard on a Government that\u2019s now basically making excuses for everyone\u2014yep, 963 families. Soft on drugs: potentially there. Yep, some might have been falsely accused, but all 963, including those who were regularly smoking meth, have not only been let off the hook, not only been taken off the hook, but paid out\u2014paid out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bafdcc5536bf493c87313ab0ae7f1998\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: False standards set. Shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb02ceffc615408792ec992f2171507b\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing the other side talking about standards. There are no standards, there are no regulations; we\u2019ve been asking questions about where these regulations are. They\u2019re not there. There are no regulations, there are no numbers, there\u2019s no nothing. It\u2019s as bad as the 43 or the 42. In fact, no evictions, no tenancy reviews, private landlords leaving the market. What has become abundantly clear, when we went through this review, is that the housing market is getting completely, completely out of control. In fact, there were two things which illustrate it. When we did this review, when we were bringing MSD and the Ministry of Housing in, there were 6,600 people on the waiting list. That was only last year. It\u2019s now over 11,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f7893c6c474d22930346eec0ec6e1e\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222907cfeaa4aa442fbd514612b6dddf8c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. It\u2019s now over 11,000. So it\u2019s almost doubled\u2014almost doubled. In fact, in my prediction, the next quarter will be worse. [Member coughs] There\u2019s my voice. It\u2019ll be worse. In fact, I\u2019m trying to do an Andrew Bayly, clearly. It\u2019ll be worse. Now, the big thing here is that so much has been said tonight by those on the other side about the amazing work they are doing, but it shows in the numbers that it is not working. The decisions around no tenancy reviews, the decision not to evict when there\u2019s been horrendous behaviour, and particularly those of us who are constituent MP who get the complaints, and there is absolutely nothing we can do when flaming phone books are being thrown over the fence, when people\u2019s houses have been bottled, when children are being abused by blimmin\u2019 drug-ridden, meth-ridden tenants, then we\u2019ve got problems. But this Government ignores that, and they just talk a big game about their diverse, broad, consensus work groups that are, first and foremost, doing the work the Government should have done and then delivering nothing\u201442 recommendations, three implemented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EFinally, the last real humdinger, and I hope it\u2019s not stealing my colleague\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297bdd0b8d97e4853bf6c40ddd0f89e51\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022135f923c4977402db179961c072d1dff\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, anyway, I\u2019m not going to do it, because I would have stolen my colleague\u2019s\u2014in fact, I\u2019m going to finish with stealing, though, because, fundamentally, this Government to date, whenever there has been some success in housing, has effectively stolen the National Party\u2019s ideas. It doesn\u2019t matter if it\u2019s the work that Nick Smith did with housing on Waimahia. It doesn\u2019t matter if it\u2019s got to do with Housing First; we\u2019ve done a fantastic job and I\u2019m pleased to see on the good parts that this current Government has only continued to do what National did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5a4154c0404482eb6b4aab5d0b0fa4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5a4154c0404482eb6b4aab5d0b0fa4d\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Continuing on from my last five-minute speech, can I just say that it is, for us, about changing the narrative about who\u2019s in the welfare system as well. Over one million people access the support of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) every year and, as I said, only about 290,000 of them are main beneficiaries, and we believe, on this side of the House, that they should be supported to access opportunities that are meaningful to them. But, also, not only them but every superannuitant in this country, every person with a disability that needs to access the support of MSD should be able to do so, feeling comfortable that they will be treated with respect and their dignity will be upheld. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s too much to ask, actually. Common sense tells me that if you treat people well and you actually support them to take up opportunities, then you\u2019re more likely to have success than what you are when you put the boot in while they\u2019re down, which was the previous Government\u2019s philosophy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really proud of the fact that, as a Government, we\u2019ve been able to have a public discussion about welfare and about the changes that need to occur in a way that does not polarise New Zealanders and, in fact, in a way where most New Zealanders are sitting back and saying, \u201CActually, what you\u2019re proposing makes sense, and actually this is the right thing to do.\u201D I think that\u2019s the first time, in my memory, that I can remember that happening and I think we\u2019re in a really good space with regards to making sure that we help people get ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere is a lot in the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s report that will inform what we do, moving forward, and it needs to be well-thought-through. We need to canvass all of those things, but I\u2019m really proud of the report that we have been presented with and the fact that we have a Government that is absolutely in solidarity on the changes that need to occur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been criticised, from the other side of the House, for things that we\u2019re doing in the employment space. Can I acknowledge not just MSD but also our employment Minister and everyone else that has a role in this\u2014the Minister of Education, the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, and others who are actually actively working to make sure that we are proactive on the work front, and we are being proactive. Actually, the stats show us that. Our unemployment rates that we were presented with recently showed that we\u2019ve got a 4.2 percent unemployment rate. That is better than what was achieved under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThey talk about job seeker numbers, but when we look at the number of working-age New Zealanders who are unemployed, then actually we see that the stats\u2014I think, most recently\u2014were at 9.3 percent of working-age New Zealanders on benefit. Now, that\u2019s actually better than what the previous Government achieved, as well. So perhaps there\u2019s something in our approach\u2014perhaps something in our approach\u2014with regards to how we treat people, how we make them feel welcome when they come into the office. And we\u2019ve already announced in this year that we plan, moving forward, to have a much stronger work focus in our Work and Income offices, which under the previous Government diminished because they did not put the investment in the places that they needed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo please, to the general public, I hope that they are feeling very optimistic about what this Government has to provide, and not only as a Minister for Social Development but as the Minister for Disability Issues, who\u2019s very cognisant of the fact that 53 percent of those on main benefits are actually people who have an illness or a disability or are caring for a person who has an illness or disability\u2014that we\u2019re cognisant of the evidence behind why we\u2019re making decisions, as opposed to being led by some ideological view that you need to put the boot into people that find themselves in a difficult situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re very optimistic about the future for New Zealand, and I get the sense from those that I come across that they are very hopeful that with a Labour - New Zealand First coalition, with the Greens in support as our confidence and supply agreement partners, we will actually be looking out for the best interests of those that have to access the welfare system and for New Zealand overall. We\u2019ve got a lot of work to do, and I\u2019m not going to deny that, but the wonderful thing is that lots of the work was already under way before the Welfare Expert Advisory Group came along. They\u2019ve challenged us and we are taking up that challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002221bfa6eb566a4a1ebb2cafe73d24df4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221bfa6eb566a4a1ebb2cafe73d24df4f\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. We\u2019ve had some very robust discussion on this appropriation tonight, but I\u2019ve got to say that the biggest highlight for me was listening to the Hon Phil Twyford when he talked about housing. I know that that side of the House isn\u2019t very good with numbers and my colleagues over here are, so I\u2019m going to ask my colleagues: how many times did we hear the Minister talk about KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ab49f4e08940ffb81e54611a228026\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f18ba49744402e8d71c3b241cc2349\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: Zero\u2014exactly. The biggest fail\u2014one of the big flagship policies of that Government and the Minister couldn\u2019t even mention it once in his speech tonight. That tells us a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAnd the Minister in the chair, Carmel Sepuloni, who\u2019s just resumed her seat\u2014I\u2019m so pleased that she talked about the working groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39f471f929b44f2a7ff0b3116db4bc7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chair. KiwiBuild is actually not within the scope of this appropriation, hence why you probably didn\u2019t hear the Minister speak about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9889d8ed2c47529e09e61dacc93884\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the Minister for that intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d560de192648401e9f2a32a154ded6f2\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: OK, so the Minister who\u2019s just resumed her seat certainly did talk about working groups. Now, we know that that working group that was set up, the $2.1 million working group, which is one of the 200-plus working groups set up by this Government\u2014after 18 months of work, the Welfare Expert Advisory Group came up with, we know, 42 recommendations. Three of those were adopted. But here\u2019s the kicker: one of those was already under way, and that was the abatement rates that the previous National-led Government had under way. One was an election promise, which should have been happening anyway and didn\u2019t need a working group to come up with that gem, and the other one was a retrograde step, because it removed the sanctions for mothers who refused to name the father of the baby, meaning that the father was not then liable to help make contributions towards the upkeep and the child\u2019s maintenance, their own child\u2019s maintenance\u2014well, contributions in the legal sense\u2014which would have then, in turn, reduced the burden on hard-working Kiwis who now have to pay their tax to fully fund that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe irony in that is that in 2004, the then Minister for Social Development, Steve Maharey, said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CRemoving sanctions on women who don\u2019t name the father of their child is a complete reversal of position for Labour. It is a rort, and I have said time and time again in this Parliament that fathers must front up to their obligations, and we will make sure they do.\u201D Well, this Government certainly does not stick with their policies over time, and that is what leads to uncertainty in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d just like to make mention of some of the issues around change of policy direction, because they create real problems for real Kiwis. I\u2019ve got to say that some of the change in direction in some of this Government\u2019s policy is felt most harshly on the West Coast. What those policy changes do is they set us on a pathway to economic destruction, and we\u2019re seeing that now, with the West Coast being the only region to fall in its GDP. So what that does is it means that we\u2019re going to need more social support in places like the West Coast, where, in fact, what we need to be doing is investing in the economic viability of those places to make sure the economy thrives and make sure the locals are gainfully employed. That way, we need less social support, because they\u2019re quite capable of standing on their own two feet, but they do need the Government to support them in the industries that they have now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut we know that this Government is becoming synonymous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022563cf78c72e44216a992016ae919af65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563cf78c72e44216a992016ae919af65\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the time for this debate has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002238fadca678a2447bae68f160f3fb3dc9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the reports of committees relevant to the Social Development and Housing Sector be noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReports of committees relevant to the Social Development and Housing Sector noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227baa98680bed4b3d922774dc7a703e31\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 7 and Schedules 1 to 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229498d9ac6e81445c96fffb0deb51af37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 7 and Schedules 1 to 6 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 7 and Schedules 1 to 6 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000786\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000787\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000788\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002270c745de696e47d7995df37bd7d64028\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2017/18 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f048ce68f0ee4cae9d733126088e8079\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5b16f5a0b3245be88df41309c5d7af6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5b16f5a0b3245be88df41309c5d7af6\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move that the Veterans\u2019 Support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217bd239062e7473b96e9b08fe8007bb6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. What you actually move is on behalf of the Minister of Finance that the Appropriation (2017/18 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ed322dfe72446ae860e7e4179431576\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Appropriation (2017/18 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f2b9cabfc16042bf8a156c1da94cd6fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Appropriation (2017/18 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205caeed316174ba18575f586e9d36702\u0022\u003EVeterans\u2019 Support Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d9b3a217889f48118d00c9947b9ea7c3\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00224ff8e9960d354dd78be749c724b3373c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ff8e9960d354dd78be749c724b3373c\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Veterans\u2019 Support Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I will move that the bill be reported to the House by 12 June 2019 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe bill which has come before the House today is designed to put right a drafting error in section 9 of the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014. It\u2019s important to do this quickly so that New Zealand veterans can have certainty about their entitlements and so that the agency which administers entitlements for our veterans, Veterans\u2019 Affairs, can continue to work to make sure that all eligible veterans will receive what they should be receiving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EOur veterans legislation changed in 2014. Until that date it was governed by an Act which first became law quite some time ago\u2014indeed, back in 1954\u2014and it was known as the War Pensions Act. The 2014 legislation changed the criteria which determined whether a veteran who has served New Zealand can receive support and services and if they have been injured or made ill as a result of their service for their country. Those criteria now are a lot broader in range than they were in 1954. They cover a wider range of different threats, both operational and environmental. The old legislation only covered service in war or emergencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESection 9 of the Act authorises the responsible Minister to declare deployments that meet those specified criteria to be qualifying operational service, and this entitles veterans to services and support from Veterans\u2019 Affairs. We know from the documents associated at the time with developing this legislation that the intention of the 2014 Act was that these declarations of qualifying operational service could be made at any time before, during, or after deployments, and that\u2019s how it has been interpreted ever since the 2014 Act was passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EAs a result, since 2015 a number of deployments which hadn\u2019t met the previous criteria have been reassessed, and this has been done to make sure that all who served in high-risk deployments were treated equally and consistently and appropriately. It has now become clear, however, that section 9 does not explicitly authorise the Minister to make retrospective declarations\u2014that is to say declarations about deployments that have already ceased or those that started before the new Act came into force. This omission, a drafting error, needs to be put right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EA total of 14 retrospective declarations have been made since 2015. These cover multiple missions and geographical areas. They affect approximately 675 veterans and their spouses and family members, including families of service personnel who were killed in action. If action is not taken to put right the drafting error in the Act, the entitlements to veterans that resulted from these 14 declarations could be in jeopardy. Until this error is fixed, the work of Veterans\u2019 Affairs to look again at previous deployments that may be eligible for a declaration has had to be put on hold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EVeterans\u2019 Affairs are currently reassessing 39 deployments in three geographical areas. This work could result in declarations that would extend entitlements to around 1,600 veterans. There are further deployments that are also due to be examined, and these are also likely to create entitlements for more veterans who aren\u2019t currently covered by legislation. The bill which is now before the House is designed to make legal the retrospective declarations which have already been made in good faith by the previous Minister, the Hon Craig Foss, and myself. These amendments will give the responsible Minister authority to make such declarations in the future, and this will ensure that all those who serve New Zealand in situations where they were put at risk of serious harm are treated equitably and appropriately given the risks they faced. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00226aac3a1955cb4904ade15c3ec7c2f6c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aac3a1955cb4904ade15c3ec7c2f6c2\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak to the first reading of the Veterans\u2019 Support Amendment Bill. National supports this bill. The Minister\u2019s outlined the reasons why this needs to occur, and an unintended drafting error from the passage of the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014 is the culprit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt is a fairly substantial piece of work, and the Hon Craig Foss ushered in a number of changes that really modernised much of the way that veterans were treated and their entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a45acad85894b69b9e5a62ec016d2d1\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No he didn\u2019t; I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e0b1ec541c5455babbd96cfd14a3dc2\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, woops. Many people have had a hand in this important legislation, including the Hon Michael Woodhouse. If there\u2019s anyone else that would like to claim\u2014well, who had a good part in where the shaping of the 2014 bill arrived at, then, please, feel free to alert me to that. Right. Moving on, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo the legislation in 2014 did a lot of really good work, and it was thorough and comprehensive. It went through what the working day meant. It was as valid and relevant to the armed forces of today as it was to the people who had deployments and need to have\u2014I call them entitlements\u2014what they need to continue on in civilian life. I think that there is a very strong spirit and intent to ensure that veterans should not have to wait or have to go through legal processes that might be time-consuming, that some of these retrospective ones may even tarnish the entitlements that the veterans have been taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThis morning, I heard about Vietnam veterans, some of whom are\u2014and it was quoted from one of the vets\u2014too proud to go forward and ask for help. I think that tidying up this legislation is an important signal that there is nothing we won\u2019t do to ensure it\u2019s as straightforward as possible. The people who served our nation, who put their lives at risk in overseas combat, deserve the help and support that this bill intended to do in 2014\u2014and apart from the unintended drafting error, it pretty much did suit the purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe other body of work that is continuing on at the moment, that the Minister alluded to, is really important for veterans. They need to know and understand the modern meaning of the word \u201Cveteran\u201D\u2014how it\u2019s defined, what it means, and what it comes with. It is really important that that piece of work continues on, and until this piece of legislation is passed, it cannot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo I can think of no better reason than to keep my call brief tonight, but to say that the view of the National Party and I, as the spokesperson for veterans, is that we are very fortunate to have the calibre of people that serve in our armed forces today. Modernising the armed forces is not without its challenges, but I think it has been done and they are in good heart. Devonport is in my electorate. I know that the navy people take a huge pride\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230c2a08aac7c4c4b8f8814535f0ef2e6\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d38f9fd1ace4f5a84940f016a7b1209\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not only in what they do now but also in the past. Oh yes, and I acknowledge Chris Penk, who was in the navy and was one of those who I don\u2019t think probably drank the five-finger tot of rum for morning tea, but it\u2014and those days are now gone, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcd33e075a904163b774cd590d67d4a3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You never know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a42cdb2e6648b48cc8faa94cfd8619\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, a dark horse\u2014that\u2019s true, but we won\u2019t dwell there. I think it is a really important and significant thing to acknowledge our veterans, to say that they do extraordinary work. Also at a time of reflection following on from Anzac, with Normandy beach, the arrival of, if you like, the main events and battles of World War II\u2014my father fought, and my husband\u2019s father as well\u2014it\u2019s a time and an opportunity to reflect on the courage of people who were at Monte Cassino, who risked their lives on a daily basis. So it is in the spirit of that tradition that we support this bill, and we commend it to the House and wish it well on its safe passage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00222121902ffac14609b5709bbc8af10d2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222121902ffac14609b5709bbc8af10d2b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, talofa lava. I would endorse the previous speaker, Maggie Barry. It\u2019s not a night, really, where we should be endorsing the other side, given what happened today, but never mind. This is a very, very serious kaupapa, and that type of k\u014Drero is something that we on this side would all endorse. Our veterans are so precious to this country. I have to say, Mr Speaker, I enjoyed your speech during the Anzac time too. I think it was very special in terms of this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258071e86edf3486fbbbe5bff54e438d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! It might be a good time to interrupt too. The member will resume his seat. So two things: one, he shouldn\u2019t bring me into the debate; and two, this is a very narrow debate. I\u2019ve been very slack with both the Minister and the first speaker from the Opposition, but this is an exceptionally narrow bill, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ll be debating from now on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253169c61e3e546a48f2f4a66393450fe\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. In terms of this bill, obviously, we\u2019re fixing up, I suppose, a drafting error from back in 2014. We have to get this bill right so that we can give our veterans all the support that they\u2019re due\u2014yes, absolutely. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing in terms of this. In fact, we\u2019ve got\u2014I think it\u2019s 675 veterans who could be missing out if we\u2019re unable to rectify this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo this is a technical error, I suppose, back in 2014. We didn\u2019t envisage that we\u2019d have the type of problems that we\u2019ve got now\u2014a total of 14 retrospective declarations have been made since 2015. Our veterans, as the Minister said, are waiting for this to be rectified, waiting for this to be corrected, and this is something that we can support the other side in, support the Minister in, and get on with the business. So happy to endorse this bill, which makes illegal the retrospective declarations which already had been made, and to give the Minister the authority to make such declarations in the future. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00221bfa8c0907134d739aff5190ddffde0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bfa8c0907134d739aff5190ddffde0a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Very prescient of you, Mr Speaker, but pleased that you\u2019re right. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on the Veterans\u2019 Support Amendment Bill. I\u2019m disappointed that the Minister\u2019s not choosing to send it to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014we\u2019d have loved it\u2014but actually respect the work that you\u2019re leading on this. I thank the good grace, if I might say, Minister, acknowledging the important work that has been done in the past around the Veterans\u2019 Support Act but, indeed, acknowledging that an error has been made. That\u2019s an unfortunate reflection on Parliament, but, equally, these things happen and, again, in good grace, we\u2019re looking to move this bill forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs the Minister and other speakers have noted, the error is, in effect, the ability of a Minister, first and foremost, to decide what is a deployment or not. It\u2019s too narrow. Secondly, retrospectivity is, effectively, not present. My understanding is that Ministers, including the current Minister, have attempted to look at this, particularly previous deployments. So, obviously, as I said, this Act came into force in 2014 and there was an opportunity post-then to look back and to make a series of decisions on deployments. I can imagine the likes of the Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands, to East Timor and the like, deciding what was and what was not an act of service. In doing so, advice\u2014from what I can understand\u2014has come forward to say, actually, well, in effect, the current Act as it\u2019s worded stops retrospectivity but it is also too narrow. Obviously, what comes out of that is that members of our defence forces, those who have served\u2014and I assume probably in some of the wider areas too, outside of the Defence Force\u2014ultimately cannot get recognition in terms of the entitlements that they are entitled to. I\u2019d been interested to know\u2014it\u2019ll probably have to come through the select committee\u2014whether it affects medals and recognition as well. It probably doesn\u2019t under Veterans\u2019 Affairs; the Minister\u2019s nodding that it doesn\u2019t, so that\u2019s good to clear that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, fundamentally, two factors at play here: retrospectivity and the scope of what defines a deployment on behalf of a particular person. So, obviously, this Act, very small as it is, looks to fix that. It looks to enable the Minister to legally and rightly look back and make changes as necessary. I\u2019d expect if this is supported by the House, and the feeling at the moment, of course, is that it will be\u2014this the side of the House supports it\u2014then it will get to select committee. I don\u2019t anticipate\u2014again, not my select committee\u2014a lot of issues being raised. From my own engagement with veterans, they seem\u2014well, they would be relatively happy. I mean, fundamentally, this is going to provide more entitlements for those who have rightly served the Realm. Again, I think it\u2019s unfortunate that we\u2019ve ended up with this situation. These things are not ideal, but I think it behoves the House to act appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo on the last point that I\u2019d make, I think the Minister has indicated at the start of his speech that this will be a sped-up or a truncated process. I have certainly railed Ministers in the House many a time against that; in fact, I\u2019ve railed in this House against retrospective legislation. But as all great philosophers know\u2014and I\u2019m certainly not one of them, so I\u2019m going to be taking from others\u2014the exception sometimes can prove the rule, and I think this is one of the occasions that if there is accord across the House on the nature of what\u2019s being done, which is very clear, very transparent, and, thirdly, in the service of those who serve the Realm, then that is a positive step forward. So I\u2019ll leave it there as a courtesy for the next person who wishes to get ready to make a stand, but Minister, thank you. We look forward to progressing it through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022e838793fd3bf4ff3935001d4edaa94ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e838793fd3bf4ff3935001d4edaa94ab\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. It is with great pleasure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdeefd7d6845462883f11b3a7f7be7e7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: For Samoan Language Week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e4e3ec419db4c7e901eceeb7c32aa06\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, for Samoan Language Week\u2014and happy Samoan Language Week. It\u2019s with great pleasure, actually, that I rise to take what I suspect will be a very brief call on the Veterans\u2019 Support Amendment Bill this evening because, actually, in terms of content, this sits across both select committees that I sit on\u2014of course, the Social Services and Community Committee, which I suspect will be looking at this bill in more detail, but also the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which deals with other issues related to Veterans\u2019 Affairs. This is, as previous members have said, a very technical bill that aims to correct a drafting error in section 9 of the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id201905288953df8fba8d4468ac40cda1b84742dd000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"