"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b644c7ab60614dbba7999365290014dc\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 28 AUGUST 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232f8dc6004b7403dafa02b583663e9c6\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 28 AUGUST 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fc3374a28854ba49a64ed1be580d6dd\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f19294f72103428aa2b072d23dab1652\u0022\u003EAustralia\u2014Political Exchange Council Delegation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002259ed7dfaaa0744f082dc6a5b27e6fd8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259ed7dfaaa0744f082dc6a5b27e6fd8c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members will wish to welcome the 13th Australian Political Exchange Council delegation to New Zealand, led by Senator James Paterson, who are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E[Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2862c94f5c6458fbb1fdf333c8b1b0b\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228da8fee0c4de40af8a00323df1f625d1\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022060b2706d01a4745a3c3110e66a298d9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Regional Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0ec459ae9e84eeb9732607ec7214cc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0ec459ae9e84eeb9732607ec7214cc4\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: What recent announcements has he made regarding the Provincial Growth Fund in the South Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8aecb25c3cc4b40a8f41751ff7b4d7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8aecb25c3cc4b40a8f41751ff7b4d7e\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Parliamentary Under-Secretary to the Minister for Regional Economic Development) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development: On behalf of the Minister\u2014and hopefully in the voice of\u2014just last Friday, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development visited the fine people at the top of the South Island to announce $4.5 million in Provincial Growth Fund support for high-value food development through The Food Factory, the Nelson Artificial Intelligence Institute, as well as support for the regional economic development capability. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ce08a6afd44ee29085808abc9e5bed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Settle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b1edd5b4d9145fb8cc28ebb09c37b1c\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: I myself travelled to the great city of Invercargill to announce $19.5 million in the form of a loan from the Provincial Growth Fund to support the inner city redevelopment\u2014a co-funded project to fund Invercargill\u2019s inner city redevelopment and bring the heart back to that city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224368864853ad4fd2aafcb5aa80559f41\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: What did the announcements comprise of?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222adefee930dd47f7a40cec0b5c0c3b0b\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, at the top of the South Island, the Government is putting their support in behind Mr Pic\u2019s Food Factory to the tune of $778,000. The Nelson and Marlborough district councils are set to receive $200,000 respectively for economic development project delivery, and the Nelson Artificial Intelligence Institute are to take on a $3.4 million loan. In the deep South, the announcement I made in Invercargill has helped to activate a $165 million project to re-develop an entire block in the Invercargill city centre for retail hospitality, office space, and entertainment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4511c854eb4ceb9b5fda25083bfea1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, I\u2019m going to allow one more supplementary, because both of those answers have been far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab645cafd33743b2bbbc948534b04611\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Right, I will go to the Invercargill announcement\u2014ha, ha! How does the Invercargill announcement boost Southland\u2019s regional economic development prospects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278bc87f5c1d040e38cc663e1990f0309\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Invercargill may be a small city at the bottom of the South Island, but it is one with a big vision. The project has been a true collaboration with regional stakeholders and will be an absolute game-changer. We know that this investment will boost Southland\u2019s real GDP by nearly $50 million per year while creating hundreds of jobs in the construction stage, not to mention the retail and the hospitality jobs, once the development is complete. Thank you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227fe92556d886473ab49c770a795d9f53\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022941da84e5d384080a14a7fc6777e4f62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022941da84e5d384080a14a7fc6777e4f62\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements, policies, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002289e04babcde845ca85689d1cd8037f4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289e04babcde845ca85689d1cd8037f4a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the Government\u2019s economic strategy, which is supporting innovation through our 15 percent research and development tax credit; improving skills and training through reforming vocational education; expanding amazing schemes like Mana in Mahi; investing in infrastructure\u2014Budget 2019 invested $1.2 billion in schools and $1.7 billion in hospitals\u2014investing in regions through the Provincial Growth Fund; and, of course, diversifying our trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201207f1548c6499c88a390fe746f5ee0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that, why, then, is it that business confidence is lower than at the height of the global financial crisis and economic growth\u2019s gone from nearly 4 percent to 2 percent under her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f040d1545e7545b198ecb8d3384c1ace\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, we\u2019ve had this conversation many times in this House, and my response is not going to change. In fact, I think the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research and the report that they\u2019ve released today is a snapshot of where we currently sit. It states that, \u201CThe New Zealand economy has experienced 33 consecutive quarters of growth\u2014the longest stretch since records began in 1947. The unemployment rate is at an 11-year low of 3.9 percent. \u2026 Although the number of tourists coming into the country [has] peaked, tourism spending is holding up. All this suggests the New Zealand economy is on a solid footing to weather the global headwinds.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca20c5439b642e9ba7dcbf49b07f0e8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Crown had any discussions regarding a loan to K\u012Bngitanga or Tainui so either can purchase land at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220376edc558984127823e9757176671b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the House yesterday, I\u2019m not going to enter into speculation around negotiations between K\u012Bngitanga and mana whenua. They are the parties around the table. We should respect the process that they\u2019re involved in. That\u2019s what this Government is going to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022235d4a3bff744f45b11a646f6799928a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Crown had any discussions regarding a loan to the K\u012Bngitanga or Tainui so either can purchase land at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f623555366c6400da5d1454d5c0b5fa7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my previous answer, the discussions between the parties include K\u012Bngitanga and mana whenua. That is who is around the table talking with one another around a solution for Ihum\u0101tao. I am not going to disrespect that process, which is still ongoing, by entering into discussion or speculation around their talks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f712b1a08644ad82c4a62684ba323e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will any public money be used to either directly or indirectly purchase land at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222049800c2bbf4866a3034d86a30f2cc4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I refer to the process that is involving K\u012Bngitanga and mana whenua. What I would also just add to that, of course, is that from the Crown\u2019s perspective, we are mindful of our obligations as a Treaty partner; we\u2019re mindful, of course, of our Treaty obligations; we\u2019re mindful of Treaty precedent; and we\u2019re, of course, mindful of our commercial obligations to the taxpayers of New Zealand. But we are also allowing the process to occur between mana whenua and K\u012Bngitanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227785bcca09fc448ba159b795a03ee049\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out any public money being used to either directly or indirectly purchase land at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b444d461babc45bebc154daf221aaf95\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I just said in my previous answer, of course, the process at the moment is between mana whenua and K\u012Bngitanga. They are the ones that are in conversation, and I want to respect that. If you want to know my position on the Crown, of course, we are not a party to the conversations happening at present, but, from our perspective, we know we have obligations that include around the Treaty and Treaty precedent, and, of course, we take that very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f6d2496dd6641369688a764955df41f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How much will the cheque by taxpayers be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223735d49c08ec4ae595a9130ca04e75af\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, again, I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224554d8e1d7ab4063969b1afef4d7ac58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Probably out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb7906bec35f4b2d8bdd35ba113a47cf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that there is a public interest in knowing whether the Government\u2014not K\u012Bngitanga or Tainui\u2014is having any discussions regarding taxpayers\u2019 money to the K\u012Bngitanga or Tainui for the purposes of purchasing the land at Ihum\u0101tao; and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba94df997714d0cb3c2c7d3ca46e027\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, public interest, I think, lies in there being resolution around Ihum\u0101tao and, at present, supporting the partners to find a solution, which we have been doing as a Government\u2014supporting a for M\u0101ori, by M\u0101ori solution. The conversation therefore is currently being led by K\u012Bngitanga and involves mana whenua, not the Crown. With regard to the Crown\u2019s wider position as to the land at Ihum\u0101tao, we are very aware that our obligation is, as a Treaty partner, respecting the Treaty and making sure that we don\u2019t create precedent with regard to the Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08ef42cf2604612b720bf92679ead5b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t she tell New Zealand and this House what\u2019s happening with taxpayers\u2019 money at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1d75d2d069246b4ac2f4b3c8532c82c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Because there is nothing to tell. The conversation right now is between mana whenua and K\u012Bngitanga. I think most New Zealanders understand that this is an incredibly complex situation\u2014an incredibly complex situation. On this side of the House, we\u2019re treating it with respect and dignity. We are supporting an outcome that will be beneficial to everyone, but particularly those who are at the heart of this, which is the mana whenua and K\u012Bngitanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a208f4ab77ec4325a61de4fbce8c5372\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government being open and transparent in relation to taxpayers\u2019 money at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279cd91f272a0484292d1c16eaa546721\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0ecf139adb94c03a92051c00aeea6fe\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3e0b7cc89b347a6947b267c83ef84d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3e0b7cc89b347a6947b267c83ef84d5\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements, policies, and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022261673d5304c4eb9a86767aa1c794545\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022261673d5304c4eb9a86767aa1c794545\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907c2ca0d3e54991a52e5e388b4b9b6b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support the referendum on legalising recreational cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab4867a1c274bb18a528c0decc1997e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in the House before, I see my role as simply ushering this question through the House, giving the ability of people to access accurate information. My vote is as good as my neighbour\u2019s vote, and so, in this case, my job is to make sure that people have adequate information to make their own decision around the pros and cons of the referendum itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c6468ec05804d73a1179024dca1f2db\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think we should legalise recreational cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666f0dfafa05486ba8d0a1334603b616\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will know I\u2019ve not taken a position on the referendum. We are putting the question to members of the public, and we\u2019re allowing democracy to occur. I don\u2019t see that as being a particularly contentious proposition. That is what referendums are for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d288439bf24687958653e12d896c19\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: So how much money will go into educating New Zealanders on the pros and cons of legalising recreational cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226300166c7ad3480a8ff7ad880d997643\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: There is a focus on providing that information to members of the public. For instance, I have tasked the Chief Science Advisor to be a part of convening a panel that\u2019s able to produce information the public can trust to help inform that discussion. My understanding is that, more broadly, it\u2019s roughly $3 million that has been put aside as part of that education campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775bb340cee84d608203c03674882be5\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: How much? Not even close\u2014not even close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1cd04d2c4d4d43935bc18440e91125\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can I just, sort of, counsel members to listen. When someone asks a figure about how much and they\u2019re told how much, I don\u2019t expect people\u2014and at least three members did\u2014to then say, \u201CHow much?\u201D I mean, I can\u2019t tell if it was echoing or what, but when the Prime Minister has given a figure, it shouldn\u2019t be necessary. Maybe it\u2019s the wrong question to say \u201Cchill out\u201D, but I think people should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227272515132ca433ebb49cdd8013cdfc6\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. No dollar amount was given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9ca95175ba4d60a04f1aabe6e33e5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member had listened, he would\u2019ve heard it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283ba174be2794bdc9984e14ad878c4be\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni, who, when asked about drug-free obligations, said the Government is committed to removing sanctions in the welfare system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e34eca79f24dd5afbfac448640495a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member will know from our confidence and supply agreement that we have had a policy of looking at where sanctions are appropriately and inappropriately applied. You\u2019ve seen already evidence of that, where we removed a policy as part of our package this year that we believe unfairly penalised those who didn\u2019t name fathers. There are sanctions in our benefit system that we have retained. We expect them, however, to be appropriately used and proportionately used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be15a79244a64f84a6aec32180edf98b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: If cannabis is legalised, does she expect more beneficiaries to fail drug tests and, as such, then be sanctioned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220520f1491d8a46c2b04bce502ebb6499\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a hypothetical question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cc691169b9d4ebba05163a914ec02ef\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002221b85f69fa534c19b4797e0cec59dd7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221b85f69fa534c19b4797e0cec59dd7e\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What progress, if any, is the Government making on its fiscal strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222e873810c44a4a9e863df1f17c98c50e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e873810c44a4a9e863df1f17c98c50e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Budget Responsibility Rules form the basis of the coalition Government\u2019s fiscal strategy, and we are indeed continuing to meet those rules. These rules are about keeping debt under control, delivering a surplus, ensuring a fair and balanced taxation system, and taking a prudent approach to expenditure. As at Budget 2019, net debt is 19.9 percent for 2018 and forecast to also be at 19.9 percent in the 2022 target year. I endorse the words of one commentator, who said yesterday that this is \u201Cabout right\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022391391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8d6b5d1d62a47e8abad87643f1c19c5\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What trends have there been in New Zealand\u2019s net core Crown debt to GDP ratio? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb14f477046f4d8dac936388cc07ef62\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: While the current levels see us at around 20 percent through until 2022, we have seen debt as high as more than 25 percent in 2014 and just under 25 percent in 2015 and 2016\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022130fe935cf6b4446b27a7aacc308bed3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: GFC! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d2f57001314a38805333fd11c6a48e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: You declared the GFC over in 2012. Today, I heard one commentator criticising debt at that level as being \u201Cabsolutely wrong\u201D, which is a bit of a surprise from the former associate finance Minister at the time, Simon Bridges. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022addedaa3e2d540829dfd211e91e96263\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on different approaches to fiscal strategy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42c4e1af26c49289a42881912ed6499\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen views that our debt is too low, too high, and about right. I\u2019ve seen statements that around 20 percent is \u201Cfine\u201D, and another person stating that they wanted to be crystal clear that they hadn\u2019t put a number on it. All of those statements have been made in the past 24 hours by Simon Bridges and Paul Goldsmith, and I\u2019m sure they\u2019ll be getting their ticking off from Steven Joyce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a09474eb3d484ebd486f140bf2f7bb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to remind the Minister of Finance\u2014assuming, as is probably inappropriate, that he had something to do with the drafting of the question\u2014that questions designed for answers like that are out of order. As a result of that, there will be some additional supplementary questions given to the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d75664b5f04443693ba3ebf7b30e0e0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00224f8f8c4f0e4942998759992875b9d7c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f8f8c4f0e4942998759992875b9d7c5\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements, policies, and actions in relation to the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b0ee2688e940caa3b3471a76cb899b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b0ee2688e940caa3b3471a76cb899b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context that they were given and undertaken. I particularly stand by the Government\u2019s actions that have led to unemployment falling to an 11-year low. I also stand by my statements thanking the member for his endorsement of our debt target, if not his leader\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e26c0c962ec43a9b399bb66010fc46f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Of the $17 billion he said yesterday that his Government would invest in transport in the next five years, how much will be invested in the next two years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e577507d764308951fed0d8f537bdd\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is a longstanding tradition in this House that when questions as general as the primary one are asked, it is not always possible to be able to have the information available for supplementaries as detailed as that. I suggest that the member put that question down to the Minister of Transport. What I do know is that if one had an economic strategy that said that there would be no regional fuel tax and no further increases to fuel excise duty, it wouldn\u2019t be possible to fund many highways at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d135ac7c00441569c34194108815500\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Infometrics economist Brad Olsen, who said that the transport spending, or lack of it, is a \u201Cbrake on the economy\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b6626b87e84efbb80cd7ae67948311\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No. What I believe is that having $17 billion worth of funding for transport is actually going to really enhance our economy. What we are focused on is making sure that we\u2019ve got transport strategies and transport funding that funds roads, rail, and other forms of transport\u2014cycling, walking\u2014and actually getting some balance into making sure the regions of New Zealand benefit, not just big four-lane highways by cities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb939fbafb6d479fb8ff2a8ae86dd368\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has Treasury\u2019s advice about the construction industry saying, \u201CThe industry has identified that the biggest challenge currently facing it is the lack of certainty and transparency regarding what infrastructure projects the Government, as its biggest client, is committed to, and/or has under consideration, particularly in the short term.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202dfe88e5ae5417e858d9168d83c3e96\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a number of different views from the construction industry. The biggest issue that is raised with me that is holding back business in general, including the construction industry, is access to skilled staff\u2014the legacy left to this Government by the previous Government of failing to support the training of New Zealanders. We\u2019re getting on with addressing that through a range of programmes including Mana in Mahi, fees-free, and more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203d87cbbc5c341bd92626983158017c8\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So does he accept his own Government\u2019s responsibility for that\u2014again, following Treasury\u2019s advice that \u201CSkilled people are leaving New Zealand for more certain projects overseas\u201D in the infrastructure space? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7d01ae060364cc08653efba3308fb93\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we have established the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission/Te Waihanga to actually give the pipeline the construction industry wanted, which the members opposite failed to do over nine years. We\u2019ve set up the construction accord with the construction industry to make sure that we actually get on with finding those staff. It is a complete fiction to believe that saying you\u2019re going to build a road\u2014claiming, standing in the middle of the field, that you\u2019re going to do it\u2014actually is doing that. They were ghost roads, Mr Bridges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234aa518f7da74a7aa1b89cbb8612f392\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister of Finance seen any examples of significant infrastructure projects being announced and then taking more than seven years to actually commence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ede93ba29f84bb99003671c3e6c0535\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. In fact, I heard that example from the Minister yesterday acting on behalf of another Minister. I\u2019ve also seen examples where the one road that was actually funded, the East-West Link, was going to be $327 million a kilometre\u2014the most expensive road in the world. That\u2019s the only one they could come up with; the rest were ghost roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220522cd52482f4d71948eaf479e1532ec\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How can he say the rest were ghost roads when projects like Whangarei to Northport, a half-billion-dollar road, and when the Tauranga Northern Link, a half-billion-dollar road, were entirely consented, were through the approval process of the New Zealand Transport Agency, and were pulled halfway through commercial tenders, and that\u2019s why they\u2019re not happening?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd24203c46d434e93ca9b22f34d4e71\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The evidence I\u2019ve seen is that these were ghost roads. Now, the member might want to think he did all of that, the member might want to claim he did all of that, but the truth is he didn\u2019t do the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022398c5091bc894aeea8d5e89016e51245\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is he not listening to the contrary evidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a21e8c63fd247da94cc39b336dbed9a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I do know that the member is contrary, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223212e7886bd0482283706edd93162473\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he asked for, or received, any advice on the potential costs to the Government, and through it New Zealanders, of reopening full and final Treaty settlements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9471ca8fa642bda6cc4fcd6501e68d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t got that advice in any form whatsoever because it\u2019s not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226213f526e3bd473db0aecaaf0ffa10ae\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226244e52397584e5291781128e8e1b583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226244e52397584e5291781128e8e1b583\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: How will he change the education system to address skills shortages in the primary industries sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224c19b5d7d7ed4f99af641f420d8053c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c19b5d7d7ed4f99af641f420d8053c8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As part of the reforms of vocational education, the Government is establishing Centres of Vocational Excellence, and the first of these will be in the primary sector. This is in response to serious skills shortages across the sector and the technological changes that are happening in the primary industries. The Government expects to work with the primary sector\u2019s Skills Leaders Working Group and other industry leaders to move quickly to form proposals for the centre. The sector is already working on ideas to get the Centre of Vocational Excellence up and running.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c137f7d463294ab68ed335aa89814af4\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: What are the key functions of the Centres of Vocational Excellence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226450ea82d56847fe82e4c26a3e0d67d8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The centres will bring together industry experts, educators, and researchers to ensure that all of the courses that are delivered are the most up to date and that the most up-to-date technology is being used that will reduce duplication and resource development, will share best practice amongst all the different providers, and will create much stronger links between skills providers and industry. So we\u2019ll be seeking proposals before the end of the year to establish where in the vocational education system throughout the country the first centres could be located, and exactly what areas they will cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b7e2d646b2047c09c3152650fb6acd7\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it vital for the Government to support agricultural training and the wider primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9eb4a67e2044dfb9ef959c4e466e38\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen advice that, in the dairy industry alone, it\u2019s estimated that by 2025 they\u2019re going to need an additional 25,000 skilled workers. Roles that have traditionally not required formal qualifications, like farm workers, increasingly need greater qualifications in a rapidly changing technological environment. We want to work with primary sector leaders to ensure a sustainable pipeline of workers will be available with the right skills when they need them. The vocational education reforms are going to give industry the opportunity to be in the driving seat of ensuring what kinds of qualifications need to be delivered to give them the skilled workers that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da600cd2ba9e4301ab00cdaf67ef5df1\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions has he taken to support agricultural training in Otago and Southland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4635de9a6e04486966b402d691b05ca\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very pleased to say that, earlier this month, the Government announced an additional $4.7 million to support the delivery of agricultural training to over 500 students on the Telford farm over the next few years. Telford, of course, would not be there were it not for that additional investment. There has been very little incentive to invest in and grow our domestic workforce, but this is now being addressed by the system-wide reforms that are taking place by the primary sector\u2019s Centres of Vocational Excellence, investments in providers like Telford, and, of course, encouraging more students into vocational education through thing like the Prime Minister\u2019s Vocational Excellence Awards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b55d21e2824a41169eda10c26c8cdcb5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002211f0bfbd5f874900a19c1c723d962ce4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211f0bfbd5f874900a19c1c723d962ce4\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he consider confidence in the New Zealand economy to be important; if so, is he concerned at reports of falling business and consumer confidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd8d7becc2e8486bada9f4b64f904065\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd8d7becc2e8486bada9f4b64f904065\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Acting Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Minister, I am concerned about some people crying \u201CMr Wolf\u201D about business confidence. Further, I don\u2019t consider confidence surveys to be as important as actual facts such as the highest growth in wages in a decade and the lowest unemployment rate in 11 years. Also, confidence surveys are known to have a low correlation to economic growth. For example, the December 2016 ANZ Business Outlook said that \u201CBusinesses are wrapped in optimism.\u201D and \u201CBusinesses are jolly\u201D yet the economic growth rate then fell by nearly 1 percent over the following nine months, which is why this current Government inherited a falling growth rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b822850f14482a87eeaf2346520271\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he agree therefore with the ANZ, who have described falling business confidence under his Government\u2019s watch as \u201Cgrim\u201D and lower consumer confidence as \u201Ca warning shot\u201D; and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db3513ace05d483a828e78781b1fa9c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t agree with that. What I do agree with is the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER)\u2019s September 2009 quarterly prediction which was headed \u201CNZIER sees offshore developments weighing on the growth outlook\u201D but then notes that \u201CThe \u2026 economy has experienced 33 consecutive quarters of growth\u2014the longest stretch since records began in 1947. The unemployment rate is also at an 11-year low of 3.9 percent,\u201D and then concludes by saying \u201CAll this suggests the New Zealand economy is on a solid footing to weather the global headwinds.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5db5e7f21b4e85851847d4cb2c880a\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What Government policies responsible for rising costs to the New Zealand economy will his Government roll back, given the NZIER have today said that business confidence remains weak as businesses struggle to pass on rising costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f335fc33f04db6970765f322e4bd3a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t accept the premise of that question. I\u2019m actually not going to accept the Opposition\u2019s advice on this, given that they\u2019re changing their debt strategy more often than the weather changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1cea6dcb1d34b2985fa8ffdfc3ec299\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Which of his Government\u2019s new regulations adopted since the election will the Government repeal to reduce costs and compliance on Kiwi businesses and help restore confidence in the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213606b07f54d4829946b1005ecedb9d9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m certainly not going to do what the Opposition recommends, which is to rip up the foreign-buyer ban, which has had the effect, particularly in our most overheated markets, of vastly reducing foreign-buyer purchases in central Auckland, Queenstown, and W\u0101naka, which is where the highest price pressures were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e31744813e4baf9b82c36e10631ef6\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Has he asked the trade Minister, David Parker, why he says exports are at a record high with exporters receiving near record returns whilst the Government tries to blame its own poor economic performance on overseas markets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ef8d594e1341a387bab10ba86d4bfc\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed I have. In fact, I understand that the Minister for Trade and Export Growth has been working tirelessly to pursue trade opportunities around the world rather than taking time out of ministerial business to procure donations from foreign entities. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436ca946371d47aa8e348b8a75abbe9f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I waited for a time thinking that you might act, but I think that was a most unreasonable, unsubstantiated, and unacceptable allegation made by a Minister and he should be required to withdraw it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1a4509342124a069e3c36a682312d35\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the first thing I\u2019m going to do is to indicate I don\u2019t know who it was who made the noise over there, but there\u2019ll be a consequence for that. I\u2019m not entirely across the facts in this particular case, but my reading of recent media was that there had been an acceptance of the facts as outlined by the Minister in his answer. I think it\u2019s fair to say that there were arguments around whether it was right or wrong, whether it was within the law or not within the law, but I hadn\u2019t seen any suggestion that the member concerned had not been involved in a discussion while he was a Minister with regard to a donation, even if not in that capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb6b47f200940fdb45b8d2afb1d1d85\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking further to the point of order, it would be possible, I think, for any of us to find photographs of current Ministers in circumstances that would be quite appropriate but where the other persons or parties in that photograph would have given donations to the Labour Party, for example, or to New Zealand First. I want to refer you to Speaker\u2019s ruling 167/3. I think it\u2019s pretty clear that the statement by Hon David Parker transgresses that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022819c2b7074e741429fb0b47e13475b77\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dff2a7b737640d990f42609cc333653\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t need any help with that at all. There was no suggestion made by David Parker that Todd McClay was corrupt. That was absolutely not made, and I want to say to Gerry Brownlee that to use that Speaker\u2019s ruling, which suggests that Todd McClay was corrupt or had committed some misconduct, is entirely inappropriate. That is not what David Parker said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c2ce5c0ead745b7a76724d9645c7232\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Further to the point of order: for people who will not have read this but are expected to listen to your interpretation, it says, \u201Cmake implications or imputations in questions that go to matters that could be interpreted as misconduct or corruption.\u201D There would be no reason other than trying to do that for David Parker to have made the statements he did, and that is an offence against the good conduct of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f1a1c68985140df98503169f877e008\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220717094b90d24570b91521f5b7ae4763\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019ve just about had enough of this. I mean, the suggestion that having a photograph taken with someone who is a donor to a party is in itself an inference of misconduct or corruption is just wrong. I mean, I\u2019ve had photographs taken with Grant Robertson, and I\u2019ve certainly given money to a political party. So I think the member is just going too far and, in my opinion, this process, and especially the reference to the suggestion that there was an imputation made by David Parker that involved misconduct or corruption, is incorrect. In fact, really, the only person who has made that suggestion in that form to the House, by drawing attention to this Speaker\u2019s ruling, is the member himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a73984faa6fe46f9b8065e771d057667\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221f0a0d8756114674813290ab60dd9e19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f0a0d8756114674813290ab60dd9e19\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Is the Government considering changing the principles of the Social Security Act 2018, which include the principle that \u201Cthe priority for people of working age should be to find and retain work\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00226be91b6d29204172bc96dd8a4f72e5ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226be91b6d29204172bc96dd8a4f72e5ce\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E As I told the member last week in the House, the welfare overhaul work programme will include a review of the principles and purpose of the Social Security Act in response to the recommendations in the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report. This Government does believe that, for those who are able, finding a job that is sustainable and meaningful is important for long-term wellbeing. So we do celebrate the fact that unemployment is at an 11-year low of 3.9 percent. There have been 92,000 jobs created since we came into Government, and the NEET rate has dropped by 19,000, to 69,000. This Government has an economic plan that will deliver jobs for New Zealanders, and we are investing more in breaking down barriers and supporting people into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246412290c3814e87bb2662333ec745d3\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government planning to make it easier for beneficiaries to choose not to work by removing the drug-test sanction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e3e35d09614099981b3a261d7d9afe\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: This has been traversed over the last two weeks in the media. We have made no changes to this particular sanction. Under the previous Government, there were very few people who were actually diagnosed with having drugs in their system, and it remains the same for us. In the last year, there were 38,000 drug tests undertaken, and, of the 38,000, 72 resulted in sanctions. That goes a long way to dispelling the myth that that side has always tried to perpetuate that beneficiaries are on drugs. In fact, they are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5999551bad64b6db5f5e84a7fd78659\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister, who said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CDrug tests are a blunt instrument. They fail to differentiate between recreational substance use and problematic substance use.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d28b0f58ad41e484d91dbf59c86d66\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I do believe that they are a blunt instrument, and I do believe that that side of the House overinflated the drug problem that beneficiaries have in this country. On this side of the House, we are absolutely focused on the fact that the vast majority of people who are in the welfare system are actually wanting to work, and we\u2019re here to support them to do that. I do want to focus on the fact that one of the shortcomings of the previous Government was actually their lack of investment in upskilling and training, which was pointed at very clearly by the former Business New Zealand chief executive Phil O\u2019Reilly, who stated very clearly that a large number of people coming into the welfare system were failed previously by the education system, an education system that was overseen by that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022854ff482f0c1474080012c65cc689a55\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have an expectation that those employed in her office do not come to work under the influence of drugs, and, if yes, what\u2019s the difference between that and the expectations on those receiving a taxpayer-funded benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c135f37a49463cac10878ae579a903\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely have that expectation. I will say that I also do understand that I think the welfare system has a role to play with interacting productively with the public health system, because we do recognise that there are some New Zealanders that face addiction problems. So we do want to make sure that we are also putting measures into place that aren\u2019t just punitive, to ensure that we help them address the addiction problems so that they are able to contribute meaningfully as New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f1510ebb914506a97d73e2010149ca\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the real reason why her Government has allowed the drug-test sanction to remain, as she answered in the question before, because she knows the sanction actually works?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2d2a78f7fa42e0a658102601f0ccd9\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say, reflecting on that sanction and reflecting on her time in Government, that that side of the House made out that they would have to put millions and millions of dollars towards drug testing, made out that they were coming down hard on beneficiaries who were under the influence of drugs, put a stigma out there that New Zealanders in the welfare system are all on drugs. The reality is that, in the last year, 38,000 undertook the drug testing, and 72 had sanctions imposed. That dispels the myths that that side of the House like to perpetuate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229210c41167e1491aa10fe127f5ab9803\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022786d2e3eaf5a4ba180049e56e84d28ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022786d2e3eaf5a4ba180049e56e84d28ad\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made about increasing training opportunities in the construction industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002269b56e0601ec4f4092b22f15cc3bcbb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269b56e0601ec4f4092b22f15cc3bcbb0\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Recently, alongside my colleague the Hon Willie Jackson, we announced a new partnership with Joy Business Academy and construction industry partners to pilot using virtual reality technology to prepare people for jobs in the industry. Using a virtual reality headset, a person can test their skills driving a dump truck or operating a digger or managing traffic on a worksite. The experience of doing a particular activity in virtual reality is an effective way of practising safely some crucial skills required for the job, and in a cost-effective way. This is an example of the innovative approach this Government is taking to support upskilling and training, particularly where there are job shortages like in the construction industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e7474f66c642dfb369db76feb42bfc\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this industry important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce847b40365427aa809c872f3a26933\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: This industry partnership is important because the growth in construction jobs has gone from 27,339 ten years ago to 38,850 expected in 2021, and 40,149 in 2026. The development of this training technology was designed in partnership with key stakeholders in the construction industry. This is particularly important so that potential employees are able to understand what employers\u2019 expectations are and employers are able to have well-trained applicants who understand the nature of the work they\u2019re entering. According to James Coddington, CEO and founder of Joy Business Academy, we are \u201Cthe first in the world to develop a cooperative assessment tool\u201D, with a multi-player virtual reality experience where the users can be anywhere in the world. The use of virtual technology is a game-changer. It will allow us to prepare more people for roles in the industry anytime, anywhere, and will save us time and money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c803352915b43a5ab470c9fc62a8178\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022729523b64f364c669d0c6167a498deb2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Question No. 10\u2014the Hon Scott Simpson. The answer was far, far too long and answered a whole pile of questions which weren\u2019t asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0d6737ec4284d048d31c273e82ab133\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Climate Change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002292eecd8b657d488ba29b1baba7b4dd87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292eecd8b657d488ba29b1baba7b4dd87\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Climate Change: What was the total sum of money paid to the Crown by Emissions Trading Scheme participants using the fixed price option for the year ending 30 June 2019, and has additional revenue, if any, been offset with any tax reductions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022841ade8cd6134e60a466b1231d1481aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022841ade8cd6134e60a466b1231d1481aa\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, in the year ending 30 June 2019 the Crown received $421 million from participants who chose to use the fixed price option instead of surrendering New Zealand Units under the emissions trading scheme. In answer to the second part of the question, no, there has been no offset, because the fixed price option does not represent any additional cost to those businesses. Those businesses have chosen to pay $25 to the Government instead of surrendering a unit purchased from the market because they consider this to be the lowest cost option available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa363d048f0244848b646ca7e37e0dd7\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: What will happen to the $421 million collected from fuel users, industry, and electricity users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e614f97530c84b3e87d1796f6b50064a\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: The simplest analogy that I can think of is that it\u2019s like having someone pay $25 into your cheque account when you still owe money on your mortgage. You might have money in your cheque account but, if your liabilities still outweigh your assets, you could spend that $25 on something else other than your mortgage, but you\u2019d still need to generate revenue to pay your mortgage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294be2242a72a49e1ba014d67d4f540ad\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd66eb9c908e4059816b1e244da6d87a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I am going to ask the member to ask the question again, because I think it was pretty specific and I\u2019m not sure that the Minister got that close to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022481eeb74854f4956b7db72dad90447cd\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: The question was: what will happen to the $421 million collected from fuel users, industry, and electricity users?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010ea14f8f694d3eb5f72a86270edab7\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s an asset held against the liabilities of the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278fd936c16e444f09480c9aff43ca41d\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with James Shaw MP, who said, \u201CEvery single Kiwi over 18 will also get a $250 dividend bonus at the end of the year based on the carbon tax revenue.\u201D; and, if so, is he planning to return this $421 million to New Zealanders in the form of a carbon tax dividend?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc1d79858de48e6b66502144dfa41f4\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: The fixed price option under the emissions trading scheme is not a carbon tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fdd367260b4a719572b95ba2d31832\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with James Shaw MP, who has said, \u201CWe say, tax pollution more, and tax people\u2019s incomes less.\u201D; and, if so, will he therefore now be arguing for a $421 million tax cut to be legislated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666b930711a94b308bb9720c263fe1e2\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes; in answer to the second part of the question, no. There have been no decisions made on the recycling of revenue in relation to the emissions trading scheme. But I want to point out that cash that comes in as a result of the fixed price option does not count as revenue, because it is held against the liability of units that are still in circulation under the emissions trading scheme (ETS). The member might know that, because it was the National Party that put the fixed price option in place in 2009.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b631711a726241d291d594bb7079e8e2\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government amend the ETS to remove the price cap option and will this increase the price of petrol by around 18c a litre if the emissions price rises up to around $100?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5c60a0021f40d7854237b842060004\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has already announced that we will be replacing the fixed price option with a cost containment reserve, and that is in amendments to the emissions trading scheme legislation that will be entering into the House shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c1813b35625e4fb0a360476330db264c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002277d776f3f0f74ca289558aa81ee9e309\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277d776f3f0f74ca289558aa81ee9e309\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What is the Government doing to ensure digital health infrastructure is fit to meet current and future needs of the core health services New Zealanders rely on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022480eddf3ff7d463ba0c609fcc546cb1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022480eddf3ff7d463ba0c609fcc546cb1f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E More good news. The Government is working hard across the sector to make sure our health infrastructure is brought up to the standard required to continue delivering high-quality care now and into the future. To this end, I\u2019m pleased that Cabinet has now signed off on a detailed business case to implement the new health finance, procurement, and information system, or FPIM. This new system has now been endorsed by all 20 district health boards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e82b4c7fc6e2488c804bb8cfca8b2f8d\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How will this new system help deliver high-quality healthcare to New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052b0ec981f6407baea5cc20e4d5005a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: FPIM has two primary objectives. The first is to ensure DHBs\u2019 operations are not put at risk of disruption from IT systems that have reached the end of their life and should have been replaced during the last nine years. Secondly, FPIM will allow DHBs to realise the procurement benefits of Pharmac\u2014national contracts for medical devices, as well as savings through other national procurement initiatives. The money saved here will be directed into high-quality front-line health services for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226810f530d0984467887b10b88ee72e49\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government implementing the health finance, procurement, and information system now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5fc0df78d1b46ddb8f5f7424d477eeb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The last Government spent more than $100 million over seven years developing what it called the National Oracle Solution, or NOS, IT system for DHBs. This system has been much delayed and has failed to deliver the anticipated benefits. It\u2019s time to salvage what we can from this mess, draw a line under it, and move on to something that will work. That is exactly what we\u2019re doing with the health finance, procurement, and information system. Unfortunately, DHBs will have to write off the costs associated with the National Oracle Solution. They have to do this at the same time as writing off large sums associated with Holidays Act liabilities, which the previous Government failed to address. Both of these will weigh heavily on DHBs\u2019 end-of-year financial results. This is National\u2019s legacy in health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222378588482684d2ba852094094e03955\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00227852713448ee4ebca627027d84d0b213\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227852713448ee4ebca627027d84d0b213\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Does Immigration New Zealand queue-jump applications for visas based on criteria that are not publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022747a39a09c534a38b91302216e5bca05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022747a39a09c534a38b91302216e5bca05\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The majority of residence visa applications are processed in the order received; however, there is a smaller proportion of applications that may be allocated to a priority queue. Temporary visa applications which are decision-ready or low-risk are prioritised ahead of those applications which require more information or additional verification. This is enabled and permitted by the Immigration Act. The chief executive of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) sets broad prioritisation criteria that are publicly available. More detailed criteria are not proactively published, but are available on request.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d807bf35a344457af0e3294d56bd193\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with immigration adviser Erin Goodhue, who said, \u201CI don\u2019t believe [Immigration New Zealand] are operating in a fair [and] transparent manner by continuing with this practice.\u201D of using an internally set criteria that is not public to prioritise applications for those seeking employment in a Government department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee23b326fc145a390d73c90cd5c3c39\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I believe I\u2019m speaking about the same immigration adviser that the member is. When they asked for that information, they were given it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e395688ccc49ec880e86e119368690\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that jobs with Government departments meet the criteria for urgent allocation for employment-related visas\u2014that criteria being either compelling personal circumstances, humanitarian factors, and/or matters of national interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bde291f7864423b9dc71f44f4fceca1\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, and whilst this is an operational matter for Immigration New Zealand, I\u2019m advised that that criteria is no longer used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8fabb14e2324bd89db8e2a301a42fa6\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: When Immigration New Zealand\u2019s assistant general manager Peter Elms said, \u201Cbecause we\u2019ve got a queue of applications, we do prioritise on the basis of those highly skilled and high demand jobs.\u201D, do requests to Immigration New Zealand for workers in the horticulture and fruit-picking industries not qualify as important enough to be prioritised, despite the large number of job vacancies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cd7041bac424caea9d8ad4d874664cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! The member\u2019s had a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5dfa8787b264c54b658aa67453eb80a\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Has he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0dcddc8b4a647ad94fb70d85ed3f6ee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022555085b9ebb142478e5f782b788dc840\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: The prioritisation criteria that are issued by the chief executive of MBIE are a matter for MBIE and Immigration New Zealand. I recommend the member ask that question of the organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e52becf1e54dfcb18094c1c5ad0e7c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. There was a very specific question there around the fruit-picking industry and whether that was prioritised or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d7f02b96714cb389994a48b9408149\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not aware that any specific industry is a prioritisation criteria. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ec6b0ed7ee4f6c88812596e7887ab4\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm New Zealanders will face extortionate prices for fruit this summer as a result of Immigration New Zealand prioritising bureaucrats over fruit pickers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282a18bae6ff438fb7b00c3bce42a68b\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No. That sounds like the stupid, ridiculous kind of fearmongering that we hear from the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022760e5a1bf6a348ac90dc030d7a1c8751\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5829a05330c40468de7f703993add52\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002279053550230d4e5b85d37aec617b7455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279053550230d4e5b85d37aec617b7455\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is committed to tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand, and make no mistake, there are plenty of them. The legacy of nine long years of a National Government is a long list of social, environmental, and economic challenges that were ignored for far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI am proud to belong to the Jacinda Ardern - led Labour, New Zealand First, and Green Party Government that is investing in fixing these long-term challenges. We are creating jobs, we are lifting wages, we are investing in our schools, and we are cleaning up our rivers. On this side of the House, we are not prepared to put the hard issues in the too-hard basket. We are getting on and fixing the problems we\u2019ve inherited, and that is no more so true than in the area that I\u2019m responsible for: the area of health in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t talk today at length about the rot, the mould, and the sewage in the walls of our hospitals, but, suffice to say, when it comes to looking at our health facilities, in nine Budgets\u2014in nine Budgets\u2014that National Government invested less over the whole nine Budgets than we have invested in the most recent Budget alone in our health facilities. So it\u2019s no surprise that many of our hospitals are not fit for purpose, leaving aside the rot, the mould, and the sewage in the walls of our hospitals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to dwell today on the workforce shortages that we\u2019ve inherited. I\u2019m not going to dwell today on the underfunding of our district health boards over nine long years. Instead, I want to talk about one of the biggest long-term challenges we face as a nation: mental health and addiction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis Government, since day one, has taken mental health and addiction seriously. We are getting on with addressing that long-term challenge. In our first year, we rolled out mental health support to Canterbury and Kaik\u014Dura schools through the Mana Ake programme; we\u2019ve delivered free mental health services to Wellington and the Wairarapa with the Piki programme for 18- to 24-year-olds; we\u2019re investing in new drug and alcohol detoxification beds in Auckland and specialist services for our most vulnerable mental health patients; we\u2019ve extended the nurses in schools programme in decile 1 to 4 schools, and now we\u2019re rolling it out to decile 5 schools; we\u2019ve cut the cost of visiting a doctor for around 600,000 New Zealanders\u2014all of these initiatives were under way even before we received He Ara Oranga, the report into mental health and addiction. We\u2019ve been getting on with addressing the issues we\u2019ve inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat report will shape our responses for many, many years to come, and let\u2019s be clear: it will take years to tackle these issues. But we\u2019re building on what we\u2019ve already done in Budget 2019. We\u2019re going to deliver a whole new front-line health workforce to support those wrestling with mild to moderate mental health needs\u2014the missing middle. We\u2019re building on existing services and developing new services that will get to those who are unable to access services currently. We\u2019re investing in suicide prevention, including free counselling for bereaved families. We\u2019re investing in enhanced drug and alcohol services, digital and telehealth services, and services targeted to vulnerable parents. We\u2019re also investing in our workforce, with $80 million going to existing staff and with peer support folks getting additional training, and we\u2019re investing $200 million into mental health and addiction facilities directly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s just some of the work under way in mental health. We\u2019ll have further announcements in coming weeks, including announcements around a suicide prevention strategy, details around the suicide prevention office, and, indeed, announcements around the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBefore I finish, I want to touch briefly on cancer care and control. As the Prime Minister has said, she will be announcing\u2014and I will stand alongside her\u2014our response with our cancer action plan, which will be released on Sunday. I\u2019m not about to get ahead of the Prime Minister on those announcements\u2014that would not be career-enhancing\u2014but what I can say is it is a comprehensive plan, and it\u2019s backed up by real action. We are going across the full spectrum of cancer care and control, from screening and prevention to treatment and palliative care. We\u2019ll ensure we have strong, central leadership on cancer and consistent standards nationwide. We\u2019ll build on our announcement of 12 new linear accelerators in Hawke\u2019s Bay, Taranaki, and Northland. Hundreds more people will not have to travel so far, because they\u2019ll be able to get their radiation treatment closer to home. That\u2019s what real action on cancer care looks like. We are getting stuck in and tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022830b70d70d364a008fb9aabb2ff3fa16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022830b70d70d364a008fb9aabb2ff3fa16\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It was interesting to hear a speech from the Minister of Health, who regards the amount of money that you spend purely on health as all that you need to worry about. You spend a lot more money and that\u2019s success, and you get a big clap. Meantime, they have no targets for increasing the amount of elective surgery that they\u2019re doing. I mean, there\u2019s lots more money but, actually, fewer surgeries being taken out under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis week, we released in the National Party the economy discussion document, which is a detailed document outlining the National Party\u2019s plan to grow the economy and provide opportunities for New Zealanders to get ahead, look after their families, and do what they want to do. It\u2019s timely because this is a moment when there\u2019s widespread concern around the state of the economy\u2014a great deal of worry throughout the households and the businesses of New Zealand about the state of this economy, where it\u2019s slowing down. It\u2019s slowing down. Confidence is through the floor, back to global financial crisis periods. So instead of being an economy that was clipping along nicely in the 3 percents, up almost to 4 percent, we\u2019re now scratching around closer to 2 percent. That means fewer opportunities for New Zealanders to get good, meaningful work to be able to provide for their families and to do a good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s driving that? It\u2019s simple, really. It\u2019s that this Government over here, this group\u2014people like Paul Eagle and that guy there, David Clark\u2014keep adding on costs to business every week, making it more difficult for businesses to succeed. They create so much uncertainty with all the working groups, where they\u2019ve tossed everything up into the air and everybody\u2019s waiting to see what comes down. Thirdly, they\u2019ve demonstrated incompetence\u2014incompetence on a colossal scale, this Government\u2014about how they\u2019ve handled KiwiBuild: \u201CWe\u2019re going to build 10,000 houses a year, but it might only be 73, or 24, or 128.\u201D I can\u2019t remember what the number is, but it\u2019s not a good number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, alongside KiwiBuild, on the transport side, what have they done? Well, all they\u2019ve done is cancelled a lot of projects that were ready to go and they\u2019ve replaced them with a whole lot of projects that aren\u2019t ready to go and won\u2019t be ready to go for a long time. We were at an infrastructure conference last week in Rotorua; the air was filthy\u2014filthy. They were angry because they\u2019ve got no pipeline of work. They had a pipeline and it disappeared, and they\u2019ve got nothing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe third area of incompetence is that nobody can get workers anymore because it takes six months, three months, five months for Immigration New Zealand to handle any basic sort of indications about what\u2019s happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve come up with a coherent plan to build the economy, which is partly about our tax policy, which is as low as possible so that New Zealanders can keep as much money as they want. We\u2019ve got sustainable views, unlike the Prime Minister, who said that the superannuation age was the great Zimmer frame in the room and she was going to do something about it. She\u2019s changed her mind entirely. She stuck her own head into the sand, ignoring the Zimmer frame and doing nothing about that. We\u2019re going to be responsible about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got a big focus on building a more productive and competitive economy that will provide the jobs and opportunities for New Zealanders. It\u2019s about investing in infrastructure; it\u2019s about having a decent skills pipeline; it\u2019s about actually using our natural resources as a country and making a living, which is a useful thing to do. At the same time, we\u2019re focused on reducing costs for New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EEvery New Zealander right now who\u2019s going and filling up their car at the gas station and noticing how much it\u2019s costing to do that is reminded every time of this Government and the taxes that they\u2019ve piled on to New Zealanders trying to get around\u201424c a litre. They\u2019ve added 24c a litre in Auckland to the cost of petrol, and the Prime Minister has the temerity to go around talking about being fleeced at the petrol pump. The \u201CFleecer in Chief\u201D, as we all know, is the Prime Minister when it comes to transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThey also are aware that we need to reduce the cost of building new houses. This Government has talked about it for ages\u2014what have they done? After 20 months, they\u2019ve figured out that they have to have a working group to decide what they\u2019re going to do about the Resource Management Act. That\u2019s rapid progress!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got a different outlook. We are focused on reducing costs for New Zealand households. We are focused on building the productivity of this country so that we can earn more and have the opportunities to look after ourselves and our families, and we are going to be careful with your money out there\u2014to the people of New Zealand, not you, Mr Speaker\u2014because we understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048ae8e2fda540fc8939896f3acfa244\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can be careful of mine too if you want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aba1c158eddb4d1fa1f20fba7346c785\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the bottom line is you. So our focus is to restore confidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228802fe7fd3294950bba3d426d472c765\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It might\u2019ve been all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ccfce3544a84e7f9d4e3e6c6bdb5c9e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in this great economy, to revive our economy to make a living, and to lift our aspirations as New Zealanders both in terms of what we can earn but also about the social challenges that we can overcome\u2014and we will. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2c9614ce5884914b6064d93e59598e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2c9614ce5884914b6064d93e59598e2\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, what a misery guts. Here we are, having the longest period of economic growth for years\u2014in almost living memory; since records began\u2014and there they are. International headwinds, and we\u2019re making great progress into them, and that\u2019s what we get. We\u2019re here. At last, we\u2019ve got a Government that\u2019s looking out to the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut what I really want to talk about is our rivers. Do you know what? Over the last nine years, in Canterbury, I have watched our rivers slowly degrade and watched the Government stand by, notwithstanding the protestations of the people of Canterbury and around the country. The only green we\u2019ve got in New Zealand is the algae flowing down the Selwyn River. Shame\u2014shameful\u2014an absolutely parlous state. But, you know, now is the time to do something. Here we are taking steps. It\u2019s going to be a big job, but those rivers are going to get cleaned up under the leadership of Jacinda Ardern and her excellent Minister David Parker, who\u2019s taking steps right now\u2014taking steps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ECan I just say that farmers are absolutely on board. They are relieved that, at last, they\u2019ve got leadership here. They\u2019ve got a Government that\u2019s standing behind them doing what they want to do and supporting them in it\u2014fencing those rivers, managing those nitrates, making sure there are on-farm systems that can absolutely organise, arrange, and measure nitrates and keep those nitrates out of our waterways, because that\u2019s what\u2019s doing the damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI want to make it clear that the farmers are absolutely essential to New Zealand\u2019s great economic outcome, and this is a Government that\u2019s standing right behind them with a Provincial Growth Fund and with Damien O\u2019Connor, a fantastic Minister of Agriculture, looking after them and helping them on this journey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve heard Damien O\u2019Connor and David Parker talking about winter grazing. Now, we\u2019ve seen that down south. It\u2019s a practice which no honest, decent farmer would embark upon. One who cares for the animals, cares for the land, and cares for the waterways wouldn\u2019t contemplate it. So to say to those farmers that are misbehaving, \u201CThat\u2019s enough. Stop now.\u201D is exactly what\u2019s needed, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo we are right behind preserving our waterways and streams, and we\u2019ve seen a whole lot of action, like the announcement in respect of the Kaipara\u2014the biggest estuary in New Zealand, which is in a woeful state. The land around has time and again been streaming out into that waterway. That\u2019s going to stop now because we know that when we stop the pollution upstream, we don\u2019t have to go clean it; it\u2019ll clean itself. Nature will do its job. A great announcement for the Waikato River\u2014a real treasure that river, and yet it\u2019s been let to go to rack and ruin over the past nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not going to solve it straight away, but we\u2019re sure as anything going to start right now. Look, it\u2019s not about doing everything at once. It\u2019s not about radical change. It\u2019s about taking a balanced approach, taking an approach which brings people along with us and gives them the tools to make those changes that are necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt isn\u2019t complicated. This isn\u2019t a hard question. But I\u2019ll tell you what: every New Zealander deserves to be able to go down to their local river and stream\u2014not to put their foot in, not to put their toes in, and not just wade in it; to actually swim in it\u2014to have a good, old-fashioned swim, put your head under, come up for air, and not get sick. And you know what? That has been becoming more and more rare over the years when the Opposition were in Government. We\u2019re absolutely going to change that, because I want to be able to take them down to my local river\u2014whether it be the Waimakariri, the Selwyn, the Rangitata\u2014and let them go for it. Don\u2019t let them worry about whether they\u2019re going to get sick or not. I want to have a New Zealand we can be proud of again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, look, it\u2019s not going to be solved overnight, but we\u2019re going to start on it now. We\u2019re not going to sit on our hands like the last Government did. There are some simple steps. Farmers are onside. City folks have got work to do as well. We can\u2019t deny the fact that there\u2019s water coming off of our brake pads, and we\u2019re absolutely going to do our part as well. But what I want to see, as we progress, is rivers we can swim in, farmers that are looking after the land like they love to do, and a productive economy. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u0022aee69802eb594dcc857f4ae7b77031ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aee69802eb594dcc857f4ae7b77031ba\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This afternoon, I would like to talk, on behalf of the National Party, directly to the 23,000 farming families in New Zealand who are right now on their farms calving, assisting with lambing, laying down the crops for their kiwifruit and wine, and working incredibly hard and having a listen to that nonsense from the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ECan I first acknowledge those families for the tremendous effort they do for producing food and fibre for this country that underpins this economy. Thank you very much for your effort. Can I also acknowledge the extraordinary efforts that you all have made to look at your farms and look at ways to minimise your environmental impact. There won\u2019t be a person on the other side of the House, the Government of this country, who will acknowledge you and will thank you for your efforts today, despite the fact that last year the Land, Air, Water Aotearoa report said that across five of the six water-quality metrics that we test in this country, over 500 sites, five out of the six metrics there were more improving than deteriorating. That does never get mentioned, because it doesn\u2019t fit their narrative. Instead, what we have from the other side of the House is constant attack on you, your lifestyle, and your opportunity to see prosperity in the future. This side of the House rejects that, and we will front for farmers for ever and, in particular, from next week, when we look at the water-quality freshwater responses that come out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EDespite the fact that we have solid prices, a benign climate this winter, and low interest rates, the rural sector of this country have never been so pessimistic of their families\u2019 opportunity that sits in front of them. That\u2019s not me; that\u2019s the ANZ survey of a week or two ago\u2014minus 80 percent outlook. It is appalling, and the reason it is so negative is the policies of this Government. Let me just give you a sense: despite their appalling economic management, which is slowing this economy down materially from 4 percent growth down to just over 2 percent, for the primary industries of this country, they have got a zero carbon bill coming, which, if James Shaw has his way, has a minus 47 percent reduction in methane despite the fact there are no tools to do it, despite the fact no other country has the food production system that we do. That\u2019s coming. New Zealand First has signed off and apparently is comfortable with agriculture going into the emissions trading scheme. That\u2019s coming, and then next week we will have what we understand are extremely onerous water quality targets and extremely onerous national environment standards, which are going to impact farmers\u2019 equity immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EDo you know what? The other side don\u2019t understand that. They do not understand balance sheets. They do not understand that the banking sector is backing away from rural New Zealand. They don\u2019t understand that if they pass policies here that make water quality that onerous, they take choices off farmers, there\u2019s no opportunity for land use flexibility, and farmers\u2019 equity goes backwards. That is the reality in primary industry today. They\u2019re all looking down, because, with the exception of Damien O\u2019Connor, who boasts of his farming record and has about four or five sheep, hardly anyone else, apart from perhaps driving past as they rush from Christchurch Central to the airport\u2014Duncan Webb\u2014has any idea of what actually goes on on a farm. They do not understand the relentlessness of the day-to-day challenges of farming, which can be a joy when you see opportunity, when you see a pathway to prosperity, but can be immensely challenging\u2014immensely challenging\u2014when you don\u2019t see that, when you get a sense of a country not understanding or valuing what you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhen I look across to the Government here, I see a Government that is obsessed with ideology, obsessed with the opportunity to drive a particular outcome regardless of what the data says\u2014regardless of what the data says. I look forward to them acknowledging the farming sector, but it\u2019s not going to happen. But, rural New Zealand, you can be assured that this party, the National Party, will never forget, or will never stop acknowledging, what you do day in, day out on behalf of this economy, on behalf of this country, on behalf of this community, and we will stand strong to ensure that your interests are protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u002211bf8e5cafaa4cecafbe7e0f39288ef6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211bf8e5cafaa4cecafbe7e0f39288ef6\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Tonight, we are going to be launching a cross-party mental health and addictions wellbeing group. It\u2019s a group that is part of the 40 recommendations that the inquiry into mental health and addictions proposed to the Government, and the Government accepted in principle that recommendation. So I want to acknowledge colleagues Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, Matt Doocey, David Seymour, and Jenny Marcroft; the nearly 40 MPs who will attend an event in our Grand Hall tonight; and the over 40 MPs who have sent apologies because they are doing service based on their portfolios\u2014can I say, many, many Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe focus for us on mental health and addictions wellbeing is one of those long-term issues. It\u2019s an issue that we\u2019ve had to confront recently because 685 New Zealanders suicided. That means they weren\u2019t receiving the help and support they got when they were in their darkest days. So one of the priorities for us was to initiate that specific inquiry, and we did that because we realised we had a problem. I want to acknowledge the process that we went through and the leadership, particularly, of Professor Ron Paterson, who chaired that inquiry team. They went around the country and spoke to over 2,000 New Zealanders. They had over 400 meetings in 26 locations, and the whole intention was whakarongo mai\u2014it was to listen and to hear the voices of tangata whaiora, of wh\u0101nau, of the public, of the Ministry of Health and other providers, of iwi, of community organisations, and of academics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Marion Blake, who\u2019s the CEO of Platform. The reason I\u2019ve chosen to acknowledge her specifically is because their organisation, along with others, made the recommendation that we as parliamentarians need to come together across this very important issue of mental health and addictions wellbeing. We can\u2019t continue to have New Zealanders\u2019 needs unmet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do want to focus, as the chair of the Health Committee, on some of the changes that we\u2019ve made to ensure that people who have addictions actually get the support they want, which is the whole philosophical change we have led with the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Bill. We\u2019re really clear: there\u2019s over a thousand New Zealanders in our prisons because they have drug and alcohol issues, and our first response should never have been to send them to prison. Our first response should always have been to address those addiction issues, and there begs the question: why are people so addicted to substances that do them so much harm? So the investment that we\u2019ve made in this area, the $1.384 billion over four years, will see the initiatives identified in He Ara Oranga rolled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EOne of the issues I want to highlight in terms of our commitment has been the Mana Ake - Stronger for Tomorrow programme. It was an initiative that we prioritised because it was about addressing the legacy of the earthquakes in Christchurch and in Kaik\u014Dura. Our young people went through trauma, individually and collectively. So we prioritised a response, a systemic response involving the education system, our health system, the police, and community organisations, because we knew that our children and young people had experienced trauma. So we\u2019ve wrapped around them and created, I guess, spaces for them to be able to talk about what it was like going through those earthquakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe whole intention of that programme was to build resilience. It\u2019s to build resilience in our young people, our children who we know were traumatised so that they, later in life, hopefully, don\u2019t use drugs and alcohol to self-moderate because they\u2019re traumatised or they have anxiety issues. I see that initiative, actually, as having currency not just when we have traumatic events like the earthquakes, and I think that the learnings we\u2019re going to get from Mana Ake mean that we should be rolling this out throughout the country. Because, fundamentally, our role is to provide services and opportunities for our young people always to stand strong, to know who they are, to be able to communicate when they\u2019re in trouble, and for us to listen and give them the support they need, because one suicide, as our Prime Minister has said, is too many. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022f46e5df6e6d04decbfc79638976af982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f46e5df6e6d04decbfc79638976af982\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. As we sit here considering the headwinds of a slowing economy; as business confidence is at levels almost as low as we saw during the global financial crisis; when the Prime Minister has said that she doesn\u2019t pay a lot of attention to business confidence, she looks more closely at consumer confidence\u2014we\u2019ve also seen consumer confidence start to fall in New Zealand\u2014and when respected commentators, analysts, and economists are talking about concern around the economy, the Government just does not have a plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Institute of Economic Research today have come out and said that, actually, businesses are finding it almost impossible to pass on costs in the economy; these costs have been generated by Government policy over the last two years. We have ANZ coming out and talking about lower growth rates in our economy, and the many, many challenges that we start to face. With all of those things going on, as Kiwi businesses are doing it tough\u2014they\u2019re having to go to work and work out how they continue to employ people, how they find the workers they need to make sure their businesses can grow when there are opportunities to grow\u2014the Government does not have a plan. Indeed, the questions today from my colleague Stuart Smith to the Minister of Immigration about how visas are being processed so that tourists can visit New Zealand in a timely fashion, or so that workers can be employed by businesses that need their skills, and otherwise, were rarely met with any understanding from the Government of the great hardship and problems that their lack of policies, and lack of a plan is causing for New Zealand businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOn Monday, the National Party launched our economic discussion document\u2014more than 40 pages looking at the New Zealand economy and looking at areas that we can make changes in that will support New Zealand business, will help New Zealanders into work and those working to earn more, and to help grow the economy. The reason that we need to grow the economy is so that more can be provided by the Government for New Zealanders\u2014the things that they demand and they deserve. Of course, we\u2019ve heard a lot from the Government about wellbeing. Wellbeing is important to the degree that it makes people feel better, but unless we have a strong economy and growing GDP, it\u2019s not possible for the Government to spend money on the things that New Zealanders demand and deserve. In a number of areas in this document we have laid out areas of commitments\u2014for example, to legislate to index tax thresholds to the cost of living. The reason we\u2019ve said that is Kiwis work very, very hard. They deserve to keep more of the money that they earn than the Government would get. Legislating the index of the tax thresholds to the cost of living means that New Zealanders will get to keep much more of what they earn. We will progress work on the overhaul of the Resource Management Act\u2014an area of policy that holds back so many Kiwis and businesses, and just ramps up cost. Actually, what New Zealand needs at the moment is a Government that is looking for ways to reduce costs and bring them down, not to increase costs on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOne of the things we\u2019ve committed to is to light a regulations bonfire\u2014to go out and to find regulations that are not needed, that, actually, are not working, that are putting costs upon New Zealand businesses and everyday New Zealanders, and to get rid of them. We\u2019ve said that in the first six months in office we would get rid of a hundred. At the same time, we would look to change, across the public sector, their view of regulations. Actually, when there\u2019s a problem, more rules and more regulations won\u2019t necessarily fix that. Until that culture has changed, we have said for every new regulation that\u2019s brought forward two need to be taken away. Here\u2019s an example of a few that actually make no sense\u2014the owners of a bus depot structure that has no walls are forced to install four exit signs just in case people can\u2019t find their way out of that bus stop. Well, there you have it\u2014a regulation that costs a lot more and that, actually, is not needed. The owner of a rural property had to spend $30,000 putting in a driveway and a water tank to meet fire requirements. The tank was at the back of the house, when the house caught fire the fire chief would not drive his truck past the house to the tank in case it caught fire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere are many reasons to have regulations\u2014to make sure people are safe and to make sure laws that are adopted by Parliament work. But there are so very many regulations that are unneeded. In fact, it\u2019s not possible to be told exactly how many regulations there are in New Zealand. We have said that to help businesses large and small, we will focus on regulation. We want less regulation, not more. We want better regulation, not just more regulation, and we will light a regulations bonfire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff41d9dfe4574160bd6a2fa55fd3c54f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff41d9dfe4574160bd6a2fa55fd3c54f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022 data-id=\u00229d82cec6e48c49978146be04620f720d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d82cec6e48c49978146be04620f720d\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS (Botany):\u003C/span\u003E A regulation we do need in this country is greater restrictions around foreign donations to political parties. Yesterday, we saw in the New Zealand Herald a very good example of how the current rules around donations do not work for our democracy. I don\u2019t need to go into depth around that particular donation, but what it does highlight is how our current laws around donations are wrong. It\u2019s true\u2014I was one of the sources for that story. It\u2019s true\u2014I was able to outline for the journalists my phone records and email records and contacts around that particular donation, because at the time I was asked by someone who held ministerial office to collect the donation. I did so because I wasn\u2019t \u201COIA-able\u201D; the person that asked me to do so was subject to the Official Information Act (OIA).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThe issue that that donation highlights is that our current laws do not adequately restrict the ability for foreigners to make donations to political parties. It is true that that donation in the New Zealand Herald yesterday was lawful. It is true no laws were broken, but we\u2019re in the business of making laws and fixing laws where they are wrong. It is wrong, in my view, for a foreigner who has interests in New Zealand, who wants to donate to a political party, to be able to utilise a New Zealand - based company. It is wrong for an individual who has no other links to New Zealand other than business through a company to be able to make a donation, and have influence by making that donation to a political party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EOur laws are wrong. In my view, if you are unable to influence an election by voting, you should be unable to influence an election or our democracy by making a donation. It\u2019s a fairly simple concept, and it\u2019s one that we should be looking at in this House. Correct, the donation was not unlawful; our law is wrong and needs to be changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about foreign interference, it\u2019s very easy to look at donations, and look at the way in which we interact with people that have connections to foreign States, and just dismiss what might be going on. But when we look at it very clearly and carefully, when we try and understand the connections and the influences that people from offshore are trying to have on our democracy, it can be very chilling. Does anyone really believe that a Mongolian oligarch wants to, out of the goodness of his heart, make six-figure donations to a political party after meeting the person who has responsibility for the very policy that he\u2019s interested in, when it comes to the exporting of livestock? I don\u2019t think he did so out of the goodness of his heart. I don\u2019t think any laws were broken, but I think we need to fix the system. We need to ensure our democracy is safe from foreign influences, and ensure that we tighten up the rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard that there is a lot of support in the House for banning foreign donations. That\u2019s great, but simply lowering the threshold from $1,500 down to zero will do nothing, because any foreigner, at any point in time that they wish, can set up a New Zealand company or use an existing one to make a large donation. We have politicians in this House, and those seeking election, that have a lot of connections to people that have offshore influences and offshore interests. We should ensure our democracy and our electoral laws are much tighter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EThere is a foreign interference inquiry under way, through the Justice Committee. Unfortunately, that inquiry is going very slow. Unfortunately, the committee that is looking at that inquiry may report back too late for us to make changes to our electoral law. It\u2019s important we move now and we move swiftly because election year is very close. That same committee is also looking at the Electoral Amendment Bill right now. Unfortunately, that Electoral Amendment Bill is too tight and does not allow the committee to consider foreign donations or consider donation laws at all. The very same people sitting on the inquiry are also considering that bill. It\u2019s my view that the House should give that committee the power to look at donations; give those same people doing the inquiry around foreign interference and around elections the power to make recommendations around amendments to the Electoral Act, with regards to donations. We need to move on this. Election year is not far away. There is a very good example out there, and there will be many others, that foreigners\u2014and we heard directly from the spy agencies yesterday at the select committee, in both an open session and then in much more detail in a secret session about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b62bf153c6b74009b503bd9ceeac8fa1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8c5106c4a54ae9ab128cc3ba98009e\u0022\u003EJAMI-LEE ROSS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014influences in our democracy, and we need to take them seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to seek leave in a second to have a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) in my name\u2014SOP 324\u2014which does seek to make some changes referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022163d0b68-eb0e-4094-9bed-99e184f063e1\u0022\u003EI seek leave for Supplementary Order Paper 324 in my name to be referred to the Justice Committee, and for the committee to, in its consideration of the Electoral Amendment Bill, have the power to consider, and if it thinks fit, adopt the amendment set out on SOP 324 or any other amendments relating to electoral donations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002283bf51860b9a45e4b73be1beb6fa7cb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283bf51860b9a45e4b73be1beb6fa7cb5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that process? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00225960a5dd3277419e8f247256f2d1ad3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225960a5dd3277419e8f247256f2d1ad3a\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First this afternoon. Unfortunately, the topic is the National Party\u2014and I apologise to those on this side of the House. I don\u2019t often get up. I love to talk about the good work that this Government is doing. But it just so happens that everything seems to have come to a point in the debate, where the National Party needs to be held to account. And so I begin with the shadow spokesperson on finance, Mr Goldsmith, the man who has written tomes, books, on the history of\u2014what is it?\u2014tax and economics in New Zealand. And yet just yesterday or the day before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c67a7eae178f47c2b6393550bb2d561a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: One day, he\u2019ll write the history of this crap Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e467b21822a48649d8bbb8e45dcae4d\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014he releases a document, Mr Bishop, that could best be described as a beer coaster or a pamphlet. In fact, it was Richard Harman in his publication Politik, who spoke about the lack of depth in this policy publication and the lack of a conversation on macroeconomic policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EAnd so here we are today, after a morning of contradiction from the shadow spokesperson on finance, and the Leader of the Opposition, who can\u2019t quite decide what good debt looks like in a Government, don\u2019t understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adf09df158f74df7aedefc0831b1ff36\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022726177b5fdd140979748e8837511189b\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: They can\u2019t come to a conclusion; they are confused, as Mr Mitchell has pointed out. What their pamphlet shows us is that the National Party has a vision for the future of this country that, sadly, draws on the failed past of National Party politics, and especially from the reigns of Key and English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EIn fact, it was quite wonderful to hear the words of former Minister McClay, in his contribution to the House this afternoon, where he borrowed from another foreign source\u2014I think that foreign source was the former British Prime Minister Cameron\u2014when he used the metaphor of a bonfire. He spoke about a bonfire of legislation and\u2014what?\u2014regulation. The irony\u2014the irony\u2014of that call of a bonfire, by the National Party is that what they would burn mainly comes from one of the biggest pieces of legislation that came through this House in the last term of that Government, in the health and safety legislation. They were on this side of the House and insisted that they were there to save lives and that this legislation would save lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EAnd yet, for the past two years, members on that side of the House, through the ability of members\u2019 bills, have come through the House with members\u2019 bills to unwind the very legislation that they introduced to this House, because it was the biggest burden\u2014and I put it to the House\u2014the biggest burden on small business, in particular, that this country has seen in its modern history. And that is exactly what the National Party introduced to small business and business in New Zealand and they are going to put it on a bonfire\u2014an unfortunate metaphor\u2014and what they are going to do to stoke the heart of that bonfire with their legislation that they brought to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe National Party has lost its way. Actually, just as an aside on that pamphlet, there\u2019s no conversation about the regions. The only statement about the regions from the National Party is \u201CShe\u2019ll be right. She\u2019ll be right.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1a00cc3bbf04299865f1f475f0aa0be\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Hands off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5c7cc85ab24e6bb5ddb794282073db\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, hands off. That was their approach before and what did that achieve? Nothing. And that\u2019s why I\u2019m so proud to be part of the Provincial Growth Fund and the work that we\u2019re doing there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo confusion reigns between Goldsmith and Bridges. In fact, what they want to do in their pamphlet is\u2014they\u2019ve said they want to push the retirement age out. They want to take away from retirees. They want to make it harder to retire. That\u2019s the solution to the problem according to National and they want to take away the\u2014well, let\u2019s put it this way with the limited time I have left. I have so many points in the limited time I have left: more tax cuts and give it to the rich and cut facilities and services to the New Zealand public. Unbelievable. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae2db4612bb5427bbc7b80230322ec13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae2db4612bb5427bbc7b80230322ec13\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E For a healthy society where communities feel connected to each other, where all people can live good lives, we need to in this House reduce inequality. We need to reject too much wealth in too few hands. Inequality, as we know, is much bigger than just wealth and income, but incomes are a good measure of what sort of country we live in and the gap between incomes is a good measure of what sort of messages and what values we stand for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow the Greens know that connectedness between communities and between groups of people suffers when we allow for some people to thrive and far many more to struggle. We all do better when we realise that all work has value, when we realise that all people have value no matter what the circumstances. We all want some pretty basic things: to be able to pay our rent, pay our mortgage, have proper, healthy kai, pay our bills\u2014pretty basic things. But for too long, politicians have put up barriers to prosperity for working people and this is why the Greens are disappointed with the outcome of the review into MP pay announced just yesterday \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe plan that was announced is that we are going to revert back to an older system for setting MP pay and put it back to the Remuneration Authority. And while this should prevent some of the massive increases in MP pay that we have seen recently, for us it is still not good enough and we need to send a clear signal that everyone deserves to live good lives, that politicians are in some way connected to ordinary people, that we are not the only hard workers in society, and I do absolutely uphold that each of us here work hard to do our constituencies and our communities the absolute best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn saying that all work has value, the Greens want MP salary increases to be tagged to the dollar amount of median wage increases. So, for example, in 2014, where MPs\u2019 base salary rose by about 2.2 percent, $3,000, a year, the median income rose by only $780 and that is the nominal, the dollar amount, increase that we would have seen as acceptable. In the context of the barriers to prosperity that politicians are responsible for, we\u2019ve got plenty around us: people lining up outside my local Work and Income office in Manurewa because housing costs are incredibly unaffordable for people receiving a social security income but also for people who work in paid employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been hearing from unions that their members are paying up to 80 percent of their income. That is not acceptable, 65 percent is not acceptable, but when people are paying any more than 50 percent it\u2019s hard. It\u2019s a struggle to make ends meet. Wagamama staff just here in Wellington have had to fight for their wages, holiday pay, and entitlements. That is theft of their wages and we have got ordinary people having to fight for what they are already owed while we in this House are comfortable with the massive pay increases that we are likely to get with the system that we have announced today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe mental health stresses of people just trying to get by\u2014just trying to get by\u2014again come back to the prosperity that politicians can be responsible for, can make a difference in. When societies are more equal, we will not see the rate of suicide that we are seeing in our country. When societies are more equal, we will not see the ridiculous, the shameful level of homelessness that we are seeing in our beautiful country. When societies are more equal, we will have less mental health illness and people seeking mental health services in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe had an opportunity here for New Zealanders to feel more connected to what MPs do and to our whole entire political system by not moving MP salaries so far away from what the rest of working New Zealanders have come to expect. And I want to acknowledge that the Greens have been putting up this fight since at least 2014 with former Green Party co-leader Russel Norman announcing that this is what the Greens stand for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229f01f32faa464becb4e121cfa8947293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f01f32faa464becb4e121cfa8947293\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00222b054bee1a0d488b9e158cbd41343acf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b054bee1a0d488b9e158cbd41343acf\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a first call in the year of 2019 in the general debate and I want to take time to amplify some of the concerns that I\u2019m hearing in Northcote and also throughout New Zealand. It\u2019s actually about New Zealanders. It\u2019s not about, as the New Zealand First Party would say, National; it\u2019s not about MPs\u2019 pay; it\u2019s about the concerns and aspirations of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe feedback that I\u2019m getting is loud and clear. The people of New Zealand are not confident with this Labour-led Government. They\u2019re not confident especially when it comes to the economy. Business confidence is down according to ANZ\u2019s latest business confidence index. The ANZ-Roy Morgan Consumer Confidence survey indicates that consumers are at their lowest level of confidence this year. And we just learnt that farmer confidence, farms\u2014I\u2019ve got no farms in Northcote but farmers are hurting: a negative 80 percent confidence rate in farmers under this Labour led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to raise this because there\u2019s a strong link between confidence and economic performance. When businesses can\u2019t hire\u2014when they don\u2019t feel confident, they don\u2019t hire, they don\u2019t invest. Banks don\u2019t lend, consumers don\u2019t spend, and farmers don\u2019t invest. But don\u2019t take my word. Take the word of the Reserve Bank, which also says that there\u2019s a strong link, and I\u2019ll quote this from the Reserve Bank: \u201CWe show that better nowcasts of the current state of the labour market are obtained by using \u2026\u201D\u2014guess what?\u2014\u201Cbusiness confidence data,\u201D. And New Zealand Institute of Economic Research forecasts released today indicate that\u2014that the economy is forecast to slow, partly for overseas factors, but also partly because of the lack of business confidence in this Labour-led Government. That is why business confidence is important. It\u2019s important for New Zealanders and I\u2019m hearing it loud and clear right throughout Northcote and in wider New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo why is business confidence down? Is it because there is no plan under this Government for the economy besides taxing more, borrowing more, and spending more? Is that it, perhaps? Or is it the number of working groups that are\u2014I don\u2019t know how many working groups there are; over 300 working groups, I think. Or is it the fact that this Government\u2019s rolled back employment legislation under this Government and hurting small business? Or is it the unsustainable minimum wage increases that we\u2019re seeing in this Labour-led Government? Or is it the policies of this Labour-led Government that are causing fewer economic opportunities\u2014the policies around the Provincial Growth Fund and extra money for uni students? And let\u2019s not forget KiwiBuild, which this Government doesn\u2019t really like to talk about much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, yes, confidence matters. Confidence is translating into a lower state of economic performance, and that is why I joined the National Party: because I believe that the National Party strongly supports a growing economy because that is the way we improve the prosperity of New Zealanders. I saw this very much in my own life, growing up, having had a chance to get ahead and improve my own life through a butcher\u2019s apprenticeship and working in the private sector. I also see it in my community every day: start-up companies and businesses that are growing and taking on that extra worker, giving these people an opportunity to improve their condition in life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThat is why National has this week announced the release of our economy discussion document. I\u2019ve got a nice copy here. This document is a great opportunity for New Zealanders to have a say in the next National Government\u2019s policies around increasing productivity and employment growth, around reducing the cost of living for New Zealanders, and around improving the sustainable financial management of our country. That is how you improve confidence in New Zealand. That is how you improve economic performance and how you improve prosperity in this great nation, and it is my pleasure to advance this document, and please provide input into our next National Government\u2019s platform. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002202f7c4104a3d4271a50609a23b1883bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202f7c4104a3d4271a50609a23b1883bd\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E After nine long years of neglect, I am absolutely proud to be part of a Government that is rebuilding our health system. What I want to do today is just talk about some of the consequences of that neglect and also what we\u2019re doing to get on and fix it. I think we\u2019ve all heard those stories about the mould, the raw sewage, and the rot in the walls of some of our largest hospitals. The question is: \u201CWell, how did we get there? How did it get like that?\u201D And, thinking back on being at a DHB and the consequences of nine long years of underfunding, also where you\u2019ve also dropped the ball is in our housing crisis. Where you have not invested in primary care and where your A \u0026amp; E departments are absolutely overflowing with patients with acute needs, what do you do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat you do is you actually look after those patients, but where you cut the corners is you don\u2019t actually go on and do the maintenance on your buildings, you don\u2019t do the capital investment, because you\u2019ve got to prioritise. And the problem we\u2019ve got now, as a Government, is what we\u2019ve inherited: a whole hospital infrastructure where we\u2019ve got hospitals at the end of their life. We\u2019ve got hospitals where they haven\u2019t addressed the earthquake-prone issues, and we\u2019ve got mould in the walls. But we can get on and fix that, and we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWhat upsets me most, though, is that we\u2019ve got a whole generation of children and young people now carrying permanent and invisible scars as a result of that underfunding. What we\u2019ve got is children who have grown up and they\u2019ve got bronchiectasis, which is permanent lung scarring that\u2019s resulted from living in crappy, cold, damp houses and then not being able to afford to go to the GP to get the antibiotics they need. We\u2019ve got kids carrying around the scars of rheumatic fever on their heart valves, and what we\u2019ve also got are families where we\u2019ve got permanent scarring because their young people couldn\u2019t access the mental health services that they needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what I\u2019m really proud of is to be part of a Government that\u2019s getting on and starting to address all of those issues. And so, in Budget 2019, we\u2019ve put aside $1.7 billion over the next two years just to get on and do that basic infrastructure spending. We will be fixing up that mould, that rot, etc., in the walls, but we\u2019ll also be using some of that money to get on and build some mental health services, addiction service facilities, and we\u2019ll also be starting that rebuild on Dunedin Hospital. So there\u2019s a lot of stuff we\u2019re going to be doing in that infrastructure spend, and that\u2019s on top of the $750 million that we\u2019ve spent in last year\u2019s Budget to get on and make a beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other thing we\u2019re doing is the most massive increase in mental health spending that we\u2019ve seen\u2014$1.9 billion into a mental health package\u2014and what that means is that, once this is built up and we\u2019ve trained that workforce, people will be able to turn up to their GP via primary care. They\u2019ll be able to say, \u201CYes, I am struggling. I am doing it tough and I need to see somebody.\u201D And what we\u2019re going to be having in those primary care practices is mental health workers who can sit down and say, \u201COK. These are the options. You can stay with me and I will provide that support you need. Or if you need to have a referral, I\u2019ll arrange that. I can be that broker that navigates you through those mental health services.\u201D We\u2019re also talking about putting some of those intensive wraparound services around those who are at risk of suicide, because, again, what we see in our communities, and in communities all around the country, are, particularly, young people absolutely struggling in terms of getting the services they need. So we\u2019ll be looking at that. We\u2019ll also be looking at those that are with corrections being able to access the mental health and addiction services that they need as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EOne of the other things, though, that we\u2019ve seen in the context of those overflowing A \u0026amp; E departments is that a lot of people are coming in with conditions that are considered to be ambulatory sensitive. What that means is conditions where, if you\u2019d actually got in and treated them early in primary care, you could have prevented a hospital admission\u2014so things like an early skin infection. Go to your GP, get some antibiotics, and you don\u2019t end up in hospital needing intravenous antibiotics for five days. So what we\u2019ve done, again, is we\u2019ve made significant investments in primary care. We\u2019ve extended very low-cost access to GP visits to anybody with a community services card. So what that means is that, if their practice is a participating practice\u2014and most of the GP practices and primary health organisations in the country are part of this\u2014people can turn up and pay much, much less to see their doctor than they previously would have. And so, again, that\u2019s an area where the previous Government completely dropped the ball in terms of the affordability of access to primary care. It just declined over the term of the previous Government. We\u2019re getting in and we\u2019re investing in making sure people can access the services they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI haven\u2019t got time to go on, in terms of talking about the cancer funding, although I can mention our 12 new linear accelerators that we\u2019ve just announced. I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is getting on and, basically, reinvesting in our hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00228bd3f0c7ebc241729dffdfdbd5013c33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bd3f0c7ebc241729dffdfdbd5013c33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab4323c83c5c4d0fae289b766274b841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab4323c83c5c4d0fae289b766274b841\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. A quick search of the news headlines surrounding the 2019 Budget earlier this year revealed an array of disparaging headlines, ranging from groups like the Child Poverty Action Group to the unions\u2014the very groups that would normally be supportive of this Labour Government. Perhaps the most stunning and hard-hitting headline ran: \u201CGovernment just doesn\u2019t get it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s what this Government doesn\u2019t get: it doesn\u2019t get that a tsunami of taxes hurts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7907f23f71448318c7afafa48de820f\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ad392f5aa94de5b520c778edf152d9\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right; it hurts families, it hurts businesses, and it affects our communities. And what an array of taxes we have. What a tsunami of taxes we have before us. Not only did this Labour Government cancel National\u2019s tax relief, they introduced three fuel taxes. That\u2019s right\u2014three. They introduced the regional fuel tax, extended the brightline test, ring-fenced losses on rental properties, introduced the Amazon tax\u2014I don\u2019t actually have time to carry on this list, but the list is ongoing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI ran a small business in the manufacturing and retail sector for 17 years. It takes grit and determination and resilience to last five years, let alone 17. At the same time, I was a working mother raising five children and, during this time as well, I got myself a tertiary degree. And I came from humble beginnings. That has given me some insight into what is required; I do get it. All social delivery starts from your ability to generate resources that enable you to look after yourself, to look after your family, and to support the community you live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EA strong successful economy enables businesses to thrive and become successful. Strong thriving businesses employ mums and dads, our kids, our loved ones, and enable them to attend to the wellbeing of those around them in their homes and in their communities. Wellbeing does not come from a distant Government; it comes from those that love you, those that support you, and those who are part of your community. The more we empower people to take charge of their own lives, to shrug off the shackles of a burdensome Government and prosper, the better off we all are, and empowerment starts with the education of our children, with housing for our families, and with jobs where prosperity and opportunities come from. And what have we got instead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EFor 18 months, this Government has run the country\u2014if setting up hundreds of working groups is indeed running a country. This Labour Government has talked about wellbeing as though it is the first Government ever to consider it as an idea for a Budget. Well, let\u2019s have a look at what their wellbeing has resulted in. Increased numbers of people have gone on to job seeker support\u2014and we all know this number; it\u2019s been traversed in this House: 14,000 extra people in the last year on the job seekers\u2019 benefit\u2014an increase of people applying for hardship grants; an increase in the cost of living; more taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EAnd what about business confidence? I\u2019ve been up and down the country meeting businesses, talking to small-business owners. These business owners are expressing sheer frustration at how they\u2019ve been treated by this Government pitting business owners against employers. They feel that this Government doesn\u2019t care and doesn\u2019t want to listen as they lay more burdens on small businesses. They\u2019re struggling to find staff. They\u2019re unsure whether to invest further in their businesses. More compliance has been piled on. This Government\u2019s failure to progress much-needed roading infrastructure is literally choking business productivity. It affects productivity when you can\u2019t move your resources, your stock, your raw materials around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI met with a small-business owner recently, Selina Rako from Libra Woodwork in East T\u0101maki, a small family business that makes custom furniture components. In the space of one year, the delivery costs to get timber from one part of Auckland to the other side of Auckland, where they are, have gone up 114 percent. That is a big hit for a small business. I feel for these businesses. They are drowning in a tsunami of taxes and compliance. They are not feeling the love from this Government, and I echo the statement that I made earlier: this Government just doesn\u2019t get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa26e298d1524959be28d23c5a9a482b\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f358d4b6fe5f4d74baff49db94513ab9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00221ac828ad8c0a4065a329218c0bffad3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ac828ad8c0a4065a329218c0bffad3b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b81968b630b64f41b961ef9df81f5983\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ee2d2cd89314ec2935911a3d1c4375e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002203c1d56d91b74b30b6b415722deaa7d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c1d56d91b74b30b6b415722deaa7d6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great pleasure to take this call and lead off this debate. In the current Air New Zealand health and safety video that appears on jet flights around the country, with which many members in this House will be familiar, there is a scene at the end where Stan Walker is talking to Israel Dagg and says, \u201CI wonder when the next All Blacks - Air New Zealand health and safety video will take place?\u201D And George Gregan pops up over the back and says, \u201CI reckon in about four years.\u201D The same theme, I think, appears with this legislation, because the last time we did this was four years ago, for the last Rugby World Cup, and there is a theme emerging here that every time we come to this event in particular, and possibly even other events, we\u2019re passing legislation to allow something that is pretty natural to most New Zealanders, which is to want to get together with friends and family in a convivial environment to enjoy each other\u2019s company, enjoy the sporting extravaganza, and also to imbibe alcoholic beverages of their choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EFor some of them, actually not to even imbibe alcoholic beverages\u2014to have orange juice or a cup of tea or coffee, if that is their wont. But the main thing is people like to come together on these special occasions and not everybody\u2019s front room or living room is big enough to host and entertain a multitude of friends and family. So people like to find venues where they can do that. And not everybody is as hip and young as some members in this House like Kieran McAnulty, who quite happily go off to the big crowded sports bars and partake of the kind of loud and very, very active and animated activities that go on in those sorts of venues. And there are some people who want to go to the more, I would say, mature venues like clubs, charter clubs, to enjoy that convivial environment, admittedly with the binging of slot machines and other things usually in the background. If you go to a New Plymouth club, that\u2019s what you get and you can enjoy the pool tables as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut this bill is about recognising something that I think New Zealanders would expect this Parliament to recognise: that when our sale and supply of alcohol regulation doesn\u2019t cover a perfectly reasonable situation, which is the situation in which some clubs and other licensed premises want to open for hours beyond their licensed hours to allow people to gather and enjoy the sporting extravaganza, then they should be allowed to do so. It is a pity that in some cases where licensed premises have applied for extensions to their licensed hours to the local district licensing committee, they\u2019ve been knocked back or they\u2019ve had imposed upon them conditions such as the need to run a raffle or even have a guest speaker or, you know, have to have streamers and decorations and all the rest of it, when actually what people want to do is gather around a big screen in the company of others and enjoy the spectacle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo this bill is about enabling that thing to happen for the 2019 Rugby World Cup, which commences at the end of next month, 20 September, and goes through to 2 November. In the pool games, look, there\u2019s varying levels of interest, it is true. I\u2019m not sure how many will be queuing up for the All Blacks and Namibia game or even the All Blacks and Canada game, but people might\u2014well, people will queue up for many of the other games, and once you get out to the knock-out phase of the competition, people invariably take a lot more interest. As we know, because the All Blacks are rated No. 2 now, I think behind Wales\u2014you know, they\u2019ll be up against it but New Zealanders will want to get in behind it. So this bill does that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not without constraints. Those licensed premises whose current licence does not allow them to be open during the hours when some of these broadcasts will take place must notify their local police station and their district licensing committee seven days beforehand that they intend to do so. They must apply the same conditions that are on their existing licence, and there\u2019s a few other constraints as well. But otherwise, as it was in 2015, it\u2019s a very modest piece of legislation, very time limited. It will allow an opportunity for people and the clubs who want to host them and the licensed premises who want to host them to enjoy that sporting event. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI should acknowledge that we\u2019re at this place because of the drafting work and the advocacy of David Seymour from the ACT Party. I also acknowledge Nikki Kaye from the National Party. We were able to dust off the legislation from 2015. It applies mutatis mutandis, as they say in the legal profession, in relation to the 2019 event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f1e5935f3d4dc29e65d59cd1cb7274\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: More Latin, I say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a40f06f7ee34421a1f55a5832099148\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: But, by and large, it applies, and I know that Simon O\u2019Connor is fully available for Latin translations off-line if anybody needs it. So that is what it does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI know that there are some members who are concerned that this might signal something that some people in New Zealand are uncomfortable about, and that is what is described as an obsession about alcohol accompanying important events. And I think at a time when, you know, there is some commentary around at the moment causing us to reflect on the efficacy of our alcohol distribution law and regulation, it\u2019s a legitimate point to raise. That said, I don\u2019t think that the provision in this bill that allows this temporary amendment and temporary provision to allow premises to be available for people to congregate and enjoy the sporting event with alcohol available is going to cause undue harm or problems that might apply in different licensed premises in different circumstances under the current law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn fact, I think the experience of 2015 was that when the legislation allowed premises to open longer, there was no harm caused beyond what was prevalent at the time, with the extra distribution of alcohol for those purposes on that occasion in those circumstances. I don\u2019t think anybody is anticipating anything different on this occasion. So, on that note, I think this bill achieves a very confined, very specific, purpose, and I think that it does the job expected of it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd167920ff93409f97f8f6e872ab0136\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd167920ff93409f97f8f6e872ab0136\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I am very pleased to speak on this legislation. Look, at the outset, I do want to make some acknowledgments. Can I make some acknowledgments of Clubs New Zealand, Hospitality New Zealand, but also I do want to acknowledge David Seymour and Andrew Little. It is rare in this House that we have such a breakout of cross-party love. And in this bill, except for the Green Party, there has been an extraordinary amount of collaboration across the House. I want to talk a little bit about why that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI think the first point which has been made by the Minister is that we were back here in 2015. It is generally acknowledged we are a rugby-loving nation. We may not be, in world rankings, the best in the world, but I\u2019m sure that this House could pass a motion to say we are the best in the world. That is why we are here, in part, fast-tracking a piece of legislation. New Zealanders love rugby and we do recognise that we want people across the country to have access to the Rugby World Cup games. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI think what we need to acknowledge is, from this side of the House, we don\u2019t want to be back here in four years. We do need to change the law to make sure we have a much better situation, less unwieldy\u2014and I\u2019m going to talk about that\u2014around the viewing of major events. What this bill, in a very simple form does, is it enables the pubs and clubs in New Zealand to extend their licences under some conditions to be able to watch all of the Rugby World Cup games. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Grant Robertson on that point and Andrew Little. There was some suggestion with David Seymour\u2019s original bill that it could have been just New Zealand games. I raised some questions publicly, and it is all games, but it is not correct to say that this legislation doesn\u2019t have some constraints in it. Just like in 2015, there is a requirement for seven days\u2019 notice to police and licensing authorities, and what the overwhelming evidence and experience showed was we didn\u2019t have a whole lot of issues last time. So when I raised these issues with David Seymour and we went out there publicly and to the Government, I asked a question of Hospitality New Zealand but also of Clubs New Zealand. The reality is last time there weren\u2019t a whole lot of bad situations. So I think we can look at experience and history on that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe second point that I\u2019d make, and Andrew Little actually also made this point, is it is not about everyone getting drunk. The reality is for some premises\u2014and we do know that it is different for clubs versus pubs\u2014it is just about being able to view the games. And why is that so important this time? It is important to acknowledge the change in the way that we are going to be viewing events: online. And the reality is that in rural parts of New Zealand\u2014who, you know, National talks to quite a bit\u2014there will be 40,000 households that potentially do not have access to broadband or fast connections. So their choice to actually get access to the games\u2014and, yes, there is a partnership with TVNZ\u2014may be going down to their local RSA or their sports club. So we saw, in the Opposition, that it was important to come back to this situation, to extend the law for this event because we are in this infancy and maturation as a nation around the way, and the technology, that we view events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut I think I\u2019d make a few final points. The final one is to say that it is an extraordinary example in a small nation of how we can come together in a very quick period of time and get it done, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing with this bill. We\u2019re, effectively, enabling a whole number of New Zealanders in case we have technical issues with the rugby\u2014in case, you know, you\u2019re in a rural part of New Zealand, or if you have a situation where you go to your local district licensing authority and you actually get declined because the rules around special licensing are so archaic that certain people have to prove that they\u2019ve got tickets. In fact, I heard an anecdotal situation the other day that, potentially, an RSA on Anzac Day was encouraged to do a dress-up. That tells you how problematic these district licensing rules are around alcohol\u2014that we are in the situation that we can come together and pass a law to make sure that pubs and clubs can have access to the game, but, more importantly, rural parts of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut this final plea, from my perspective: the first part is that we don\u2019t want to be back here in four years\u2019 time. We actually need to ensure that for major events, potentially not just rugby\u2014I know that people did raise issues around the Cricket World Cup\u2014people are able to, in a relatively easy way, extend their licences and not go through cost, not go through unwieldy process, to be able to view sport. The second part is that this whole issue of technology, the way that content is being viewed, is changing, and Parliament and local government need to keep up with that change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe final part that I want to mention\u2014it\u2019s been mentioned by the Minister\u2014is around alcohol. The reality is, and I have had this conversation with a number of people in sport, that there is a massive component of sport funding that actually comes from some alcohol sponsorship. Now, I\u2019m sure there will be members in this House that disagree with that. The reality is, as I think was demonstrated last time, the vast majority of people drink responsibly. So what National believes in is, actually, yes, there are some things around alcohol harm that we can all do as a country, but actually we do trust pubs and clubs in New Zealand to manage their premises in a way. There are constraints in this bill in terms of the seven-day time frame, and the reality is that last time we didn\u2019t have a range of issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very pleased to support this bill to the House. I\u2019m very pleased to have worked with David Seymour but also the Government to enable us to be in a situation where, I think, potentially hundreds of pubs and clubs in New Zealand are now able to watch the Rugby World Cup matches. It really reminds me, and I\u2019ll leave you with this: being at Sir Brian Lahore\u2019s funeral, actually\u2014what a great man; the best of New Zealand\u2014and watching some of all of those ex - All Blacks come together; actually, sport can bring a wide variety of people together. There is huge social benefit that can come from that, and that\u2019s why we have not only supported this bill but have really been a catalyst for getting it to the Parliament, because we want more New Zealanders to come together to be able to watch sport and to ultimately see the All Blacks win in Japan. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00220d6c7cfda5014e88bff38c79e930d53b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d6c7cfda5014e88bff38c79e930d53b\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to take a call on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill\u2014what a mouthful that is. And what a d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu it feels like, because just four years ago, we were standing in a similar place\u2014well, actually, I was standing over there, but I know how it feels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI just want to also acknowledge the work that Amy Adams has done last term to make sure that this bill is right for the play. New Zealand First has taken a great amount of time in being part of those discussions to ensure that we have a sensible, pragmatic approach to being able to have a beer on a licensed premises, to watch part of New Zealand culture unfold in front of our very eyes, with friends and family and colleagues. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI have to say I\u2019m a little bit surprised at some of the members in the House that are not supporting this, particularly because it is about our culture and it is about connectivity and social intercourse amongst our communities, and I think this bill goes a long way to address some of these issues for the short term. But the bigger issue is ensuring that we actually fix this up, because in 2012, we introduced the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Bill, and it really is a bit of a bugger\u2019s muddle. The issue really comes down to the interpretation of what is an event, and that is completely subjective. In fact, in the bill here it says \u201CIt is common for DLCs\u201D\u2014those are district licensing committees\u2014\u201Cwhen considering a special licence application, to require a special event to take place on the premises\u2014for example, a guest speaker, a band, or a fundraising event. Televising the Rugby World Cup does not align well with these types of events, which is making it difficult for some licensees to extend their trading hours for the tournament.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EYet, having exactly the same legislation throughout New Zealand, some DLCs and local alcohol policies completely acknowledge that the likes of the Rugby World Cup or the Cricket World Cup are events that should be considered to be a special event, but we\u2019ve got some more restrictive areas and interpretations that would say that they\u2019re not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EBeing involved heavily over my previous career before politics in hospitality\u2014and I actually was a chair for the Hospitality Association of New Zealand\u2014I found different parts of the country quite interesting to deal with. In Wellington, a number of years ago, I found them to be very, very open and supportive of events such as the Wellington Sevens, for example, and would encourage licensed premises to put in a special application to extend trading hours to ensure that people could be on a safe, licensed premises. In fact, you\u2019re probably safer on a licensed premises than you are drinking at home or at somebody else\u2019s house at a barbecue. We had other places around the country\u2014and I don\u2019t want to name some of those areas\u2014where their perception of liquor licensing and special events was completely different, and on some occasions they would make us get all of our staff dressed up specifically and put balloons and streamers around to make it a special event, but, in actual fact, all we were wanting to do was play the rugby. The simple act of having a beer or a wine, or even not to drink\u2014you can drink a Coca-Cola and have a bowl of fries\u2014on a licensed premises, where you have a licensed manager and you have a duty manager, you\u2019ve got licensed security, you have food available for all hours of the time that the premises is trading, and you\u2019ve got trained staff who have got very strong regulations and rules around who they can serve and checking for ID\u2014why wouldn\u2019t we enable them to come to a licensed premises to enjoy the atmosphere and be with friends and family and colleagues to watch a special event?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003ESome parts of Australia have actually entered into a new age of thinking and looking at this dilemma that they have, where they have identified a number of events in certain states that they consider games of national significance, and those specific events, on those times that they\u2019re played, if they are outside of your licence hours, providing you follow the rules and regulations to ensure that you give plenty of notice to your local authority and to the police, and providing you have food and security and all the other things that go with a safe premises\u2014they can actually play those events beyond their licensed hours. I think as part of some reforms moving forward, this House needs to consider bringing into play some ideas along those lines, where we list the likes of the Cricket World Cup, the Rugby World Cup, the Football World Cup, the Netball World Cup, hockey, etc., and, of course, the Olympic Games, to name a few, that we could actually identify so that in four years\u2019 time we do not have to sit here to discuss the next Rugby World Cup, the Netball World Cup, or the Cricket World Cup, and we can actually sit around and enjoy the social intercourse with friends and family. I think it\u2019s very pragmatic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI just want to say that New Zealand First has, of course, been very, very supportive of this role in 2015 and 2019\u2014and, of course, in 2011, we had the Rugby World Cup here in New Zealand. There were some minor technical amendments made to ensure that licensed premises were able to operate within the confines of the law, because, of course, volume numbers were up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EBut I just want to go back and just finish off my contribution to say good luck to our men in black. Over the last few tests that we\u2019ve had, I have to say I was watching the South Africa\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297376d4268b94ac898e5a90ec14959b3\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: And the parliamentary rugby team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcaec177adfe463b88def267e86446bd\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not on the parliamentary rugby team, unfortunately, but I wish them all the very best this term as well. I have to say that watching the All Blacks take on South Africa, and we came to a draw there\u2014I was sort of a bit perplexed as to, you know, the improvements that were required from the team. Then we took on the Wallabies, and much to my dismay, I was shocked to see that we had a first round loss, and I felt the despair around my friends and family and colleagues. There was certainly a lowering of enthusiasm, but they have certainly reinstated the faith of New Zealand after that absolutely resounding win over the Wallabies the weekend before last, with 36-0. I do have to say that New Zealand, the All Blacks\u2014good luck, go forward, be strong. We have got a very good chance of taking three in a row, but it\u2019s not going to be easy. Watch out for those Northern Hemisphere Blighties up the top end of the world, because they\u2019re playing pretty good rugby too. I hope to see this proceed through the House expediently, as I\u2019m sure it will today. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002236c34a5e13784238bb8a63ca9d3c83d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236c34a5e13784238bb8a63ca9d3c83d8\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s interesting\u2014listening to speeches so far this afternoon, it would appear that this is a bill that has an enormous number of authors to it, and I\u2019m not going to join that long list. All I will say is that before an author can get started, there has to be an idea, and I am an ideas man. I did, in fact, raise this with Mr Hipkins some months ago\u2014he acknowledges that\u2014and indeed did the same thing in 2015, and I\u2019m grateful that others took up the mantle to write the bills, to go through the exercise, and to get us to a point where we are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut isn\u2019t it an absolute pointer to the ridiculous nature of the legislation we have that guides liquor licensing in New Zealand at the present time? It is not the sort of thing that is easy to get through Parliament because, of course, it is a conscience vote. I can look across the House and see some people now applauding this particular bill who had all sorts of issues on the day that the bill was last changed in 2012 to try and get a different sort of approach to things. It\u2019s utterly absurd that we have this every four years, or every time there\u2019s a major sports event, or what have you\u2014that we come to the House and try and put through some special legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EToday, we\u2019ve heard some criticism of the bill that I have myself just criticised. But it also comes down to the fact that there is so much discretion around what would constitute an event for a special licence. The previous speaker, Clayton Mitchell, mentioned that, and I have to say that I\u2019m taken back to the times when we were considering what arrangements would exist when the Rugby World Cup was in New Zealand in 2011. I do remember that our police at that time were not particularly helpful in understanding that it was an event where New Zealand had to show its widest hospitality, not in getting people drunk but making the opportunity available for people to come together in licensed premises. And I think that attitude pervades them to this day. Some people have suggested to me that maybe they should be called the \u201CNew Zealand Police and Prohibition Department\u201D. I think that\u2019s probably going a little too far, but there are times when you hear about\u2014like the RSA that my colleague mentioned before, where on Anzac Day, to have a special licence, it was suggested that they dress up. Well, would they consider the wearing of a poppy a dress-up, because everyone knows that by the time they get back to the RSA, the poppy is on the memorial? So I think there does need to be a great deal more flexibility and also consistency across the country by all of the district licensing authorities around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELook, obviously we\u2019re supporting this bill, and I do recall, in 2015, the numbers of people who were saying, \u201CThis will be a disaster. People will be staggering out of bars at, you know, eight o\u2019clock, nine o\u2019clock in the morning, when the kids are coming to school or to preschool. There\u2019ll be a mess everywhere. It\u2019ll be carnage from one end of the country to the other.\u201D Not one single incident occurred, because in the end, sports fans are there for the sport; they want to enjoy that occasion and not ruin it by getting themselves into such a messy state that they can\u2019t do exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI would like to hope that Spark are on top of the technology and able to deliver these games to New Zealanders. They\u2019re not going to be cheap. If anyone has a Sky Sport platform at the moment, if they have to go and get Spark, then that\u2019s another $90-odd a month. So sport and its access to it in your home is becoming more and more of a luxury. I think the disappointment that I would express is that the bill on the Order Paper in the name of the honourable Clayton Mitchell, the games of national significance bill, has not been brought forward by the Government, not embraced by the Government, and on occasions when leave has been sought for that bill to come forward, unfortunately, it is the Government who have denied that leave\u2014which is extraordinary, because Clayton Mitchell is himself part of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ECan I say the All Blacks squad that was announced today carries with them the hopes of the nation in this tournament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254f3eb492c4241f2be4b68a46dbdedec\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Bad luck on missing out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267d5dfe99fea4702ad28ff7be79d136c\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: There will be\u2014well, my colleague says, \u201CBad luck on missing out.\u201D I know Steve Hansen. I\u2019ve always said to him I\u2019m available, and he just gives me one of those dull smiles when I mention that to him. Look, can I say, in a very serious way, congratulations to those who have made the squad, and best wishes for their work, and best wishes to the coaches and to Steve for the great, extraordinary record that he has as a coach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut I do want to make a special mention, too, of someone who has missed out, and that is the great Owen Franks: 108 tests, a truly great servant of New Zealand rugby, and, I\u2019ve got to say too, a wonderful human being. I don\u2019t know anybody who has had anything to say about him other than comments that are totally praiseworthy. I know that this will be a particularly disappointing day for him and for his family, but I would want him to realise too that his legacy in the game is very, very big, and for all the years that are ahead of him, he will be in the category of Brian Lochore and others for the contribution that he has made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo with that, can I say I hope that people do enjoy the benefit of the extended hours that are going to be available, and I express my confidence that people will act responsibly during those hours and, above all, enjoy the success of our team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u002233768c8ac2744a678858838a82bea3a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233768c8ac2744a678858838a82bea3a0\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E As with past legislation, the Greens will be, and are, opposing the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill. This bill enables club licence and on-licence holders to extend their trading hours in order to televise the 2019 men\u2019s Rugby World Cup games. We know that licensed premises would normally have to apply for a special licence to operate and serve alcohol outside of usual hours, but this bill will allow them to bypass the special licence process that we already have in place. It follows a similar bill that we\u2019ve passed before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EHow much longer are we going to continue to tag the sporting culture of our country\u2014which I am incredibly proud of, and have a strong affinity with through myself and my family and my community\u2014to drinking? How much longer are we going to justify this gift to the alcohol industry that says that the only way that we can enjoy the world cup as true New Zealanders is if we rush through urgency this legislation to extend opening hours and for the sale of liquor? What an incredible gift to the alcohol industry. What a culture we are upholding that continues to allow drinking as part of the ordinary, normal way that we do sports in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI want to offer at this point a massive shout-out to the sports that happen around our country every day, every week, all year long. That happens without alcohol. That happens based on the values of bringing people together, socialising with physical activity, and connecting and learning about how we are as a society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EFor the Greens, I\u2019m very proud to be opposing this legislation. I also am proud to oppose this legislation on behalf of the Greens because, apparently, we do have warning about this men\u2019s Rugby World Cup competition. Apparently, there is cause for us to not have to rush things through urgently. I hear that this thing happens\u2014I don\u2019t know, is it every four years? We knew it was going to happen the last time we rushed this through the House, so the need for urgency is not clear to me and my colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIf there are indeed problems with the special licensing process that we currently have, then let\u2019s fix that with some proper robust debate. Let\u2019s hear from organisations at the forefront of eliminating violence connected with alcohol. Let\u2019s hear from the sporting industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI wonder if, after this world cup, we are going to see some actual proposals to get some robust debate put through for urgent legislation. Is this the threshold for urgent legislation that we want to put through this House? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI listened to Gerry Brownlee, the previous speaker, talk about the last time we passed this legislation, and he said that there was no such bleak picture of people staggering out of bars at all hours of the night. The absence of that particularly bleak situation is not good enough, because we need to also keep investigating the long-term narrative of attaching drinking culture to sporting culture. Sporting culture is beautiful, sporting culture is positive, and sporting culture is something that we all can sign up to, be a part of, and contribute to. I do not see the need for us to continue to uphold and connect that to having a beer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThat has got nothing to do with denying people an ordinary and responsible way to be able to drink alcohol, in and of its own self, but connecting it and continuously tagging it to sporting culture is why the Greens will continue to oppose this. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002214a10bc303294080a27098dc19d75605\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a10bc303294080a27098dc19d75605\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was asked to provide a bookmaker\u2019s perspective on this particular piece of legislation. It is vitally important that the media, I hope, and the public recognise that, on the whole, this House is coming together to address a problem that would have caused considerable inconvenience to many people, because there are a lot of people out there that use the social institution of a club or their local pub to go along and get together and watch something that\u2019s important to them, and that, of course, is the All Blacks performing in the Rugby World Cup later on this year in Japan. They have a tremendous chance to do what no country\u2019s ever done before, and win three in a row. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhilst I accept and respect the views of those that say that this probably should have been sorted out four years ago, when we were in a similar situation and were faced with having to do a similar piece of legislation, nevertheless, I don\u2019t believe that\u2019s a reason to oppose it. We\u2019ve got a situation in front of us now that we do need to fix, because there are clubs around the country that have followed the rules as they are written out and have been declined their application to extend their licence to allow them to serve alcohol while showing the Rugby World Cup games. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ERugby is vitally important to us as New Zealanders. It is deeply ingrained in many of the communities\u2014all of the communities, indeed\u2014that we live in, just like mine in Wairarapa. My beloved Wairarapa Bush beat Wanganui in the weekend, by the way, Mr Assistant Speaker, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019d be very pleased to hear that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe fact is that, you know, many of us have grown up supporting rugby since we were young, and for something that is essentially an administrative issue that is easily resolved, it would have been a real shame to deny not only those people that wish to enjoy a responsible drink whilst watching the rugby but also those people\u2014they might live in rural areas, they might live in areas that the previous Government did not supply rural broadband to and, therefore, cannot connect to Spark and see the All Blacks. They\u2019ve got to get together and do so at a club. They might also just simply not be able to afford the pay-per-view nature of the coverage of the Rugby World Cup, and it would be a real shame if we did not extend the ability for clubs and pubs to get an extension of their licence to continue to serve alcohol whilst they are showing the games. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EOf course, we do have a very good chance. Despite the confusion that was raised in this House by the Hon Nikki Kaye, New Zealand is, of course, ranked at the top of the world and ready to go, and we are going to do very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI was reflecting on the speeches during the speeches of the last Rugby World Cup. A very good friend of mine, Andrew Little, and I happened to be in London at the time, and I thought the House might enjoy this wee anecdote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI was young and ready to impress\u2014of course, I was wanting to get a decent spot on the list\u2014so I thought I\u2019d show the Labour leader at the time a good night out in London, which was, of course, where the Rugby World Cup final was. I\u2019d never actually spent any time in London, so I had absolutely no idea what I was talking about, and Andrew asked me to take him to a pub full of New Zealanders. The only pub that I knew was the Walkabout. I jumped in a cab and I said to the driver \u201CTake us to the Walkabout.\u201D, and he gave me a funny look. He started the car and turned round the corner and parked up, and said, \u201CHere it is.\u201D So my first opportunity to try and impress Andrew Little, and I blew it. But luckily enough, nevertheless, I was given a very low list position, and then, unexpectedly, we did quite well at the election and here I am. So there you go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe point is that this particular piece of legislation is very basic. It\u2019s very straightforward, and it fixes something that should have been fixed a long time ago. I think that the calls for this to be addressed have been heard, and I also want to point out one very important piece of information. It\u2019s not actually easy for some people to find the schedule of games for the world cup. They just need to look at the back of the legislation. Every single game is listed in the back of this piece of legislation, and the New Zealand games are highlighted in bold, as are the semi-finals, the quarter-finals, and, of course, the final.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re very pleased to see that this Government has worked alongside other members, like David Seymour and those on the other side of the House, that have put forward this idea. Everyone has seemed to have claimed some input in this. I had absolutely no input into this bill at all, but I am very pleased to stand and speak in favour of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022038ec2e490294c899006b0b831631f90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022038ec2e490294c899006b0b831631f90\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise proudly on behalf of the ACT Party in support of this bill, which I think is a wonderful achievement for our Parliament and is politics at its best. But it\u2019s also a defence against one of the dark forces of New Zealand politics. You see, even the greatest political achievement of our country, which in my view happened in 1893, we should never forget was part of a dirty deal with the prohibitionists to achieve universal suffrage. The wowsers are never far from our politics in this country, and they lie in wait to ruin anyone\u2019s fun that may seek to have it. It\u2019s been the case in 2015, with the Rugby World Cup then, when the All Blacks were victorious, and it has been the case in 2019, when the All Blacks, of course, will again be victorious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a wonderful thing that this Parliament has been prepared to put aside all of its usual differences to work together to beat the wowsers, to beat the prohibitionists, and to allow sensible and sane laws so that people can do something very innocuous. I want to thank in particular the Hon Nikki Kaye and the Hon Andrew Little, from National and Labour respectively, who have worked with me, and I\u2019ve worked with them, to make this possible. It\u2019s politics at its best, working together for the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI want to say to the people who are worried about what this might mean: don\u2019t worry. I have to confess being a little bit nervous in 2015, when I was somewhat responsible for a similar bill, about what might actually happen, because there were those who said\u2014those wowsers of whom I warned us earlier\u2014\u201CNew Zealanders can\u2019t handle it. They\u2019ll go and they\u2019ll be lying destitute and pissed in the gutters up and down this country because they just can\u2019t handle an extra couple of half-hours or hours of the pubs being open outside their usual licensed hours.\u201D Yet what happened? Nothing brings together New Zealanders better than sport. New Zealanders up and down this country went to their pubs, went to their clubs, and enjoyed the game. If I remember rightly, the main thing that was sold was actually eggs benedict, given the timing of the games in 2015. There was no trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ELet me just say that again: last time we extended the hours so that people could watch the Rugby World Cup at a pub, there was no trouble as a result of that law change. My suggestion is that there will be no trouble this time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb661b297b034ffb9c2490a6d09c078e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What about the eggs bene?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32526aa54cd4515bb8ada071344f4ab\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022545e8c241ccf482faebeeba392530acf\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be enough eggs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f80d655ca4c4e048f3310a4a63595d6\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are fundamentally good people. Gerry Brownlee is asking about the eggs benedict. Mr Brownlee, I am sure that even though the games are much later\u2014more towards 11 p.m., 12 p.m., 1 a.m.\u2014if Gerry Brownlee asked very nicely, they will whip him up something special out the back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f20c3f3f4ae4703860499108cee0cf6\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s never too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ea7b9ad8cd43008eda665079f41e4c\u0022\u003EAndrew Falloon\u003C/span\u003E: All day breakfasts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87181cf1145404b96415bfcab3856d2\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: All day breakfasts. All day breakfast for Gerry Brownlee doesn\u2019t just stop at midnight; it goes into the next day as well. I\u2019m saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221000621199834abbacb6a413e2ffdf00\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661db76f451b420791f7335c23a9231c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s asking, and Chris Bishop\u2019s asking as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d say to people that New Zealanders are going to enjoy the game at their local pubs and clubs responsibly. But I\u2019d also say that eventually there needs to be a long-term fix, and I think that this Parliament should be looking\u2014not often; I wouldn\u2019t make a habit of this\u2014to our cousins across the ditch, because there is one area where the Australians have actually got something right, and it is in the way that they allow a Minister to issue an edict to have the pubs open for a particular event. It saves their Parliament having to go through the rigmarole of changing the law every four years for the Rugby World Cup, and it has the advantage that they can be a bit more equitable, because they can do it for a range of other events as well as their particular favourite one, which I\u2019m sure will not be the Rugby World Cup this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a great day for Parliament, a great day for rugby, a great day for democracy, a great day for pubs and clubs. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002293f84e17371d4bffbe84ddabbcfca4a8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a920b69a704041898a268d7e86fae5ed\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00225c5f3482e44447fe9c678c61aa5e572a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c5f3482e44447fe9c678c61aa5e572a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed9ae8ef33ac4de4a6e1f85e98715849\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed9ae8ef33ac4de4a6e1f85e98715849\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d540843756d04c78883a8350a46bc21e\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002272eecf96dde54e02ac9a45a9133b23cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272eecf96dde54e02ac9a45a9133b23cb\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will just take a very brief call on behalf of the Green Party to again state our position on this piece of legislation. I\u2019ve heard quite a lot of speakers talk about rugby this afternoon and say that the All Blacks are our national team and this is the game that our country loves and this is part of our national identity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b8d7a5891994510813c686a8eb3ac3c\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022226d7c3176184555bc57cc0a96871fbf\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing right from my left that that is true, and that is the tone of the debate. I also hear the view from David Seymour, speaking previously, that there\u2019s a kind of a strain of people opposing this who are the wowsers, who don\u2019t believe in having a good time, and we\u2019re wowsers. In this case, I\u2019m going to sit with that. I\u2019m OK with that in this situation, because, for me, our national game\u2014if we think about that and the place that we\u2019ve given this game in our culture, and for us to spend time in this House under urgency\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299766eee2e7243debc6e172c83151086\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb4b401a76e463cafd13fc7b118dd1c\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for all of the parties in this House\u2014well, putting it forward on the Order Paper ahead of other things that really, I think, make a profound difference to our country\u2014for the purpose of ensuring that people following our national game are able to have a drink, to me, is absolutely linking alcohol and our national game in a way that sends a message to New Zealanders that I and the Green Party do not believe is constructive when we have a culture of massive harm resulting from the misuse of alcohol in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIf we are going to spend our time and put legislation through again and again, we are sending New Zealanders the message that, actually, rugby and drinking are just inextricably linked. That is the subtext of this legislation. We are sending that message, and that is not a message that the Greens support. We want us to develop a healthy drinking culture in this country, and that is going to take an uncoupling of our drinking and sports culture. That\u2019s going to be uncomfortable at times. Why will it take an uncoupling of those things? Because, actually, we want people to realise you can engage in sports and watching sports without having a drink. We\u2019re sending people the message that, actually, this is part of how these things go\u2014they go together\u2014and that is what this legislation is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EActually, the fact that pubs are able to open, they\u2019re able to get special licences\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc9b822701a441f0aadd1520d74986cc\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39e2e5c750548448187397d751aeff9\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: But it\u2019s difficult! They\u2019ve had plenty of notice\u2014I think like four years, maybe\u2014that this was coming up. Some of them may have been turned down because their local community\u2014the representatives in those communities who have looked at their application\u2014have said, \u201CActually, we don\u2019t think this is in the best interests of our community and safe drinking practice in our community.\u201D That is my understanding of the grounds they get to turn down those applications. So they\u2019re turning it down, and we are overriding that and saying, actually, we think having that drink is more important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002206d2bfa70efe46f6996d32059cda1d44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206d2bfa70efe46f6996d32059cda1d44\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m spoilt for choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b87a7691eec446929da9936aca276820\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b87a7691eec446929da9936aca276820\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E That is a very sad speech from the Green Party. To have come in this afternoon, on a simple process for the House\u2014we shouldn\u2019t be spending all this time talking on it, but I have to make a contribution because that was so distressing\u2014that the Green Party could stand up and say that this bill is all about linking drinking to rugby. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt is not. It is all about making sure that the widest number of New Zealanders who enjoy sport can have a look at it. The Government has gone out there, failed to take games like this and declare them of national significance to make them easier to watch, and, of course, in a commercial world Spark have gone out and bought the rights and are probably not going to be able to deliver the opportunity to watch those games live to the widest possible number of New Zealanders. So this is perfectly reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI wonder if all of those who are going to turn up to bars to watch these games\u2014there to watch the games, not to get drunk or to drink\u2014would be more acceptable in the Greens\u2019 eyes if they were having a couple of puffs on the old wacky backy and, rather than looking at the screen, just imagining what\u2019s going on. They can do that in the confines of their own home. Apparently there is no problem linking the enjoyment of sport to the consumption of marijuana, though plenty when it comes to the possibility that they might have a quiet beer or a wine while they\u2019re watching a rugby game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAll I want to say is: no wonder this is a party sliding away from 5 percent, because there will be, no doubt, 5 percent of the population who actually do have a bit of a snitch on rugby and who don\u2019t like the idea that anyone might, for one moment, enjoy a drink of alcohol or an alcoholic drink when, in fact, they could be enjoying so much more if only they got themselves completely stoned on the illegal product\u2014marijuana at the present time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I want to commend the Green Party for being bold enough to actually say that that\u2019s where they\u2019re coming from, but I want to say too it\u2019s pretty darn sad, and I think it\u2019s a shame, that on a simple bill like this that\u2019s about ensuring that the widest number of New Zealanders do get to watch games in the Rugby World Cup live if they want to\u2014and we do it for other sports, and I think we should\u2014we\u2019re having to spend this time listening to that sort of drivel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225e2c3e298ac24cc88e8c2f71008d8e6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e2c3e298ac24cc88e8c2f71008d8e6f\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I warned the House during the second reading that the wowsers are never far away and lie in wait to take away our fun, but little did I know they were so close that they were only a metre away, in the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI want to clarify, because this is the committee stage, it\u2019s important the Green Party recognises that many of the kinds of clubs and community institutions, RSAs, sports clubs, and cossie clubs up and down this country\u2014especially in small communities\u2014couldn\u2019t have opened without alcohol. Because of their licensing conditions, they\u2019re either open serving alcohol or they\u2019re not open. So they actually had to do this in order for them to open at all. The open with no alcohol is not a legal option. That\u2019s why this bill was necessary at the very least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut I also want to take issue with the idea that people having a drink or two with their watching of the game is somehow indistinguishable from alcohol abuse. Ironically, it\u2019s the Green Party who are saying that anyone being able to go to a place that serves alcohol is somehow bad and a problem. I would have thought they would be encouraging people who are able to go to a social place with other people\u2014after all, that\u2019s good for our mental health, isn\u2019t it?\u2014and actually enjoy alcohol responsibly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOn the point of the law\u2014because that\u2019s what the committee stage is about\u2014not only is that desirable; it\u2019s required by the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act that when the premises are open, they require patrons to be not intoxicated, to be responsible, to be sociable, and not to be antisocial. Those things will all be required under the laws that already exist. We\u2019re just changing the time that they do it. So the Green Party, not only do I disagree with their wowserish attitude, but they\u2019re completely wrong on the most basic facts of how the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, I hadn\u2019t intended to get quite so worked up in what should be a simple stage of passing this law. All I really intended to do was say to the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, that I think he\u2019s done a fantastic job of drafting this legislation. I approve of the way it\u2019s drafted, and I have to say for some reason it looked pretty darn familiar as well. That may be why I think it\u2019s such good legislation. I think he\u2019s done a wonderful job, and I hope that we can move on and get this done so we can go and watch the ABs win the rugby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00228148aa5ab0134a3bbc581430e8405f8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228148aa5ab0134a3bbc581430e8405f8b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, David Seymour, clearly hasn\u2019t read the bill carefully enough. There was a typographical error in it. That wasn\u2019t copied from his draft, I might add. I take full responsibility as Minister for it, but I\u2019m not resigning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I just say that this is the examination phase of the bill. It is entirely appropriate that those members who have a different view should be able to express that view. There is nothing wrong with that. But the purpose of this bill, as we already established, is very clear. There are venues around the country who want to be available to their members and other licensed premises who want to be available to New Zealanders who want a gathering place to watch some of, many of, or all of the games in the 2019 Rugby World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of those premises who was in the media recently was the Waih\u012B Beach RSA. I\u2019ve been to the Waih\u012B Beach RSA. It is an absolutely delightful venue. There\u2019s no reason why they should be declined a special licence by their district licensing committee. It\u2019s a great venue and a great environment. They are the perfect venue to host a late night sitting or viewing of a Rugby World Cup game so that the locals in that community can enjoy each other\u2019s company to be there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI do like to see good regulation of alcohol distribution and supply. I\u2019m one of those who are of the view that licensed premises are one of the best places for alcohol to be distributed and consumed because of the safety that that environment creates and because of the obligations on licensed premises owners and managers to ensure that their patrons are kept safe and irresponsible behaviour doesn\u2019t take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why I have always been a fan of making sure that for important occasions, national occasions, where people do like to come together in a spirit, as Clayton Mitchell said, of social intercourse can come together and enjoy each other\u2019s company. Like it or not, part of New Zealand\u2019s kind of cultural tradition is we do enjoy a drink with each other, and the vast majority of those who consume alcohol do so responsibly. There are plenty of people who turn up to licensed premises who don\u2019t consume alcohol because non-alcoholic alternatives are available. Food is available too. I enjoy nothing more than to enjoy a good plate of salt and vinegar chips with my beer when I\u2019m watching sporting events on TV or in public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThey weren\u2019t available in the Walkabout, I might say. Kieran McAnulty and I had to enjoy the aftermath of the 2014 Rugby World Cup at the Walkabout without food accompaniments. It was the loud music\u2014the throbbing loud music\u2014and most people were less than half my age. But, anyway, we got through that experience. I don\u2019t expect that many of the premises that will take advantage of this law change would be in that situation, but, on that note, I think this House has been able to examine this bill. David Seymour has provided the basic drafting of it. We\u2019ve made a few tweaks to it to make sure that it fits the 2019 requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ETo those calling for a more enduring change, I foreshadow it. I think we are at a time now, where the current legislation has been in place for about six years, that in the next couple of years we should have a thoroughgoing review to make sure that the original objectives are being achieved. One of the issues, in my view, is the conduct of district licensing committees, the inconsistency of decision making between them, and that\u2019s an issue for a future exercise and a future debate in this House. But on that note, I think this bill has been well examined and we should now get on to the next phase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00222f7e35499743495896d5b007dc840be8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f7e35499743495896d5b007dc840be8\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I do appreciate that, because, Hon Minister Little, I do want to posit a question as to whether I am right and Mr Seymour is wrong, that all clubs can open without serving alcohol under section 255 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act and that only some bars would not be able to open if it was outside the licence hours. The law, it appears, is working as intended, and if licence holders can\u2019t get a special licence, that means a district licensing committee has found that, overall, it is not consistent with the objectives of the Act\u2014safe consumption of alcohol, harm minimisation, etc.\u2014for them to be granted a licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the Minister has just referred to the inconsistencies of district licensing committees. However, what about the alternative vision of proactively creating communal spaces, including in rural areas, where we can absolutely enjoy watching sports together, socialising, without the need for this sort of pop-up, impromptu, urgent legislation for the men\u2019s Rugby World Cup. I would appreciate the honourable Minister addressing that part in this, the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223490c08203a141928ff545d717dd856d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223490c08203a141928ff545d717dd856d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Very briefly, as I understand it, the issue is the interpretation by some district licensing committees of \u201Cevent\u201D in relation to an application for a special licence that is an extension on a licence that already exists. Some district licensing committees are saying that just because it is, as in this case, the 2019 Rugby World Cup, that is not an event on its own. There has to be an event at the venue that is more than just a broadcast of that event. There is a difference of view about that, but, nevertheless, the district licensing committee takes that view. It is very difficult for a special licence applicant, having got that decision, to then seek to review that. Most of them don\u2019t have the means to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI just think, on this occasion\u2014I don\u2019t think, when the special licence part of the existing legislation was passing through the House in 2012, that anybody contemplated that it would require dress-ups and costumes and guest speakers and quizzes and all the rest of it to constitute an event around something like broadcasting a series of events like a Rugby World Cup tournament. So that is a matter that I think, for a more enduring solution, this House can come to further down the track to examine the efficacy of the current legislation to see that its objectives are being met, but in the meantime there is a widespread call to enable venues to host events around the 2019 Rugby World Cup, and I think this House should facilitate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6dd7957de304b66bdfeddc693f5787f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6dd7957de304b66bdfeddc693f5787f\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wasn\u2019t going to take a call, but there was just too good an opportunity to miss to not stand up and represent the committee of the whole House stage. I think the question that was put by Marama Davidson in relation to the suspension of a licence for an on-premise to host an event without alcohol\u2014any licenced premises can apply to have their licence suspended, but why would you need to go and do that? As the member points out, there\u2019s nothing stopping any community getting together, or the Greens hosting a big open-air venue where families and communities can come together. Also, you\u2019ve got facilities in those rural, regional parts of our country that are set up specifically for that, where people can enter a licensed premises even with children to go and sit there and have a plate of food and have a hot chocolate or a spider and watch soccer or rugby or anything that\u2019s going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe issue that this really relates to\u2014and it is for on-premise and club licences\u2014is the fact that it is very much the timing of the Rugby World Cup in Japan. There\u2019s a four-hour delay for us, which means that the 7.35 kick-off is going to be an 11.35 game kick-off. Many clubs around the country are closed between 10 p.m. and midnight, which means the finishing time for a game would be around about quarter past, 20 past 1 on any given game night where we\u2019ve got games to go and attend. The reality is most licensed premises around the country\u2014not all of them, because there are a number that do close at midnight\u2014do trade up to and including 1 o\u2019clock, but it gives them a little bit more headroom so that we don\u2019t have to go through the arduous task of applying for a special licence, which is, as has been already articulated this afternoon, very subjective, the way the DLCs, or the district licensing authority, views what constitutes a special event or not. Then you\u2019ve got the views of the police, of course, involved in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThis just truncates that process, because we all understand that sports in general in New Zealand makes up a large part of our culture for New Zealand, and this event, the Rugby World Cup, is a huge part of what New Zealanders feel very, very strongly and proudly about. I myself, if I can\u2019t attend a game live to this magnitude, I will absolutely go down to my local club, which I do attend from time to time, or the local pub to go and enjoy the festivities, and I go there without getting inebriated or intoxicated. I generally go and have a dinner with friends, and I sit there and I cheer and I enjoy and I get behind the festivities of the moment, because it\u2019s all about that interaction with my community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s nothing stopping any community going out there to have an unlicensed event anywhere in a hall to go and do that, but you\u2019ve got to create the atmosphere for the event. You need nice fittings and surroundings, and clubs and bars are designed that way to host such events on a regular basis. So there\u2019s nothing withstanding in the bill that would stop any on-premise or club from suspending their licence. The whole point is: why would you need to when you\u2019ve got people, law-abiding citizens, coming along to enjoy themselves watching something that is very important to all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the contribution from New Zealand First, and we will be supporting this bill through all the stages. We\u2019ve gone through this process before. We\u2019ve taken it to select committee, we\u2019ve heard what submitters have to say; it is very widely supported throughout New Zealand. I just hope that this House starts putting together something that\u2019s going to stop us having a 2023 replay, d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu, of this very same problem that we face. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf32140f0c5b4ab4ba896d0580e034cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf32140f0c5b4ab4ba896d0580e034cc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Jan Logie, can I just apologise to the member because I cut you off a minute early, so I\u2019m in your debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022961c232f140545a7ba35f4b8837cc1a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022961c232f140545a7ba35f4b8837cc1a0\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I had thought so. I couldn\u2019t understand why, when what I was saying was so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223419db7d5fa4fb0a312e22fd9e16fca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You have five minutes now to make up for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdb3a483500746a38c888007bbbeac42\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014compelling. I do just want to explore in terms of the content of this legislation and getting down to some of how I understand it in practice, because a lot of what I\u2019m hearing is people saying that, one, the legislation needs updating and that there\u2019s a broader issue. I think the Greens could be on board with that idea. Our concern is that we are again, for the second time, using the time of this House, which is very, very precious, to make an exception to our standard processes of oversight of the sale of alcohol for a men\u2019s Rugby World Cup. I will say we haven\u2019t done that for any other sport, which to me is a point for reflection around why it is only this code and this particular men\u2019s world cup that we are doing this for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBut I also want to go through\u2014so what my understanding is, what I\u2019ve heard, is that in the law at the moment, pubs and clubs can apply for this exemption, but the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, was saying there\u2019s an issue with the interpretation of the event that can be problematic in some areas, which may mean that those pubs would have to put on more of an event to be able to feel confident of getting that exemption\u2014doesn\u2019t seem too big a deal to me, I\u2019ve got to be honest. Like, if we\u2019re saying this is a big event for us as a country, then actually advertising for people to come together as an event rather than just a normal, run-of-the-mill night at the pub watching the rugby seems to me consistent with the intent and is not a bad thing, but that is what we are here changing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThere is additionally an option for a suspension of the license\u2014to be open but not to serve alcohol. Again, to me, if we\u2019re talking about this not inextricably linking alcohol and rugby, then that option is available. I don\u2019t think that is being acknowledged by other people in the House. I also understand that clubs are explicitly exempt from section 255 so, therefore, have the option of opening outside of normal trading hours without alcohol. Therefore, the argument that this is particularly relevant to clubs in their communities, that they need exemption, my understanding is that that is only true if it is to subvert the normal process of being able to open and have alcohol. But the view that it is not possible to open without alcohol is not accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022985ce4bba3f04fcf89e3bfeaa6341735\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022985ce4bba3f04fcf89e3bfeaa6341735\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I can\u2019t help myself. A couple of thoughts\u2014one is that clubs are not the only type of licence. There are many communities where pubs are actually an important part of the community. But even those clubs that could, theoretically, open outside of licensed hours actually need a way to cover their costs, to cover their staff. These are the kinds of practical realities that people who run businesses and run incorporated societies and clubs, face. But, apparently, members of the Green Party do not. I think it\u2019s critical that we also bring in an element of choice. We\u2019ve just heard from the Green members that a little bit of regulations are OK; it shouldn\u2019t be too onerous for, for instance, a club or pub to be asked to have a guest speaker at 11:30 at night to make an event full, or to run a raffle in conjunction with the game, or to put up lots of bunting and banners to make it a legitimate event\u2014these are the things that people have been asked to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI would appeal to the Green Party\u2019s better senses when it comes to choice and tolerance, because I don\u2019t drink alcohol but I support this bill. With biology being what it is at the present time I will never have an abortion, but I support choice there. I think it\u2019s unlikely that I will ever take advantage of marriage equality, but I support that too. There are all sorts of things where it would be easy to say \u201COh well, it\u2019s just a little bit more regulatory burden. What does it matter if we politicians make things a little bit harder for our fellow citizens?\u201D. We could use that argument to justify all sorts of Byzantine burdens on people who just want to get on with living and enjoying their lives, but I hope this Parliament won\u2019t. I think it\u2019s important that\u2014I speak as a former Parliamentary Under-Secretary to the Minister for Regulatory Reform, no less\u2014when this committee regulates we have regard for the freedoms and the convenience and the enjoyment of life that our fellow citizens wish to enjoy. If that means that you can have a pint while you watch the game slightly outside the normal licensing hours, then I don\u2019t think that\u2019s too much to ask. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI, finally, take issue with the repeated attacks on the All Blacks for being men. Since when was it acceptable for the Green Party to support a sports team because of their gender? I think that\u2019s outrageous, and I hope that the Green Party will see the error of their ways and stop this terrible gender-based discrimination against the All Blacks simply because they are men. They can\u2019t help being men; they didn\u2019t choose to be men. They were, to quote Lady Gaga, \u201CBorn [that] way\u201D, and they do not deserve to be chastised, belittled, and attacked for being who they are by the Green Party, of all parties. So I stand up for our All Blacks and their right to be men, and not be attacked for being men by the Green Party\u2014the party that says that they believe in kindness and inclusively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I hope that pretty soon some sensible member of this committee will rise up to their feet and put a closure motion so we don\u2019t have to hear any more madness from the Greens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002297ca78e98d464dbaaa19784d0397f73e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297ca78e98d464dbaaa19784d0397f73e\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229412e7953b4f43eeb382c66292b0a5e3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Parts 1 and 2, Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000408\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000409\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000410\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ee73100f748492f88d8217e03bebfc8\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002220e0655e7e124f6095d27469943b99f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220e0655e7e124f6095d27469943b99f8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022aab61769a89043b79ab0465ec01ca2fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Rugby World Cup 2019 Extended Trading Hours) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022796a6317365946ff8a69df046543c700\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205a1ee9cd78b43a7b8c0aa10bf378ff0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000415\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 27 August.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022628cb09c229e461eafe0c8eecc9c653a\u0022\u003EExternal Sector (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002248818716bad44b7c9b06eb3a22166d23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248818716bad44b7c9b06eb3a22166d23\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is indeed a pleasure to rise and share some of the discussion that was had at the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, as we talked about the fact that New Zealand\u2019s security and prosperity depends on the conditions within, and our connections with, the world. The fact remains that we must engage with, and seek to influence, other countries to our advantage, in line with our values and interests as a nation. We heard from a range of Ministers who have responsibility for foreign affairs, trade, our defence force, and customs, who told us how we are indeed doing that\u2014and that is this Government\u2019s focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Rt Hon Winston Peters, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, about the Pacific reset, which is a reset of our regional relations with the Pacific Island nations. He told us that there were largely two components to it: one was the fact that the Pacific Island region is challenged by a broad range of challenges\u2014like, for example, the impacts of climate change, and the work that the Government is doing to decrease some of those vulnerabilities that various nations face and increase their resilience to deal with the impacts of climate change. The other, of course, is the fact that the Pacific is an increasingly contested strategic space, and we need to maintain our voice and influence to work together with various Pacific Island nations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI actually want to point to one specific comment that the Minister made in response to specific questions about how we do that. He made it very clear that the Government\u2019s focus is not on imposing various measures but working with local cultures to determine what specific needs are in different Pacific nations, and to make sure that we do it in a way that is acceptable, following local consultation\u2014and I thought that was incredibly important. The Minister also emphasised the importance of New Zealand\u2019s foreign engagement when it comes to addressing climate change, and the amount in Budget 2018 was $300 million over four years, an increase of about 50 percent, to assist Pacific nations with climate change challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThere was also discussion about the fact, of course, that we are a small nation that is incredibly reliant on trade, and, therefore, some discussion around the various free-trade agreements (FTA) that are under way as well. Trade, of course, and establishing those relationships and strengthening the relationships that we have with various parts of the world, is incredibly important to our economy, as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThere was discussion around the importance of securing a free-trade agreement with the United States, where the Minister talked about the fact that that indeed is still very much on the table. The fifth round of negotiations for the New Zealand-European FTA took place in July as well, where both parties are hopeful of striking a deal by the end of the year. We talked about the upgrade to the Singapore FTA as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAnother point that I want to make is about the discussions with the Minister of Customs, at the time, about the work that is under way in combating sexual exploitation of children. There was a huge amount of discussion at the select committee about this because there\u2019s an increasing focus within customs to address this. Budget 2019 proposes spending of nearly $10.3 million over the next four years for new policy initiatives within customs to combat the sexual exploitation of children. I just want to read this bit because it\u2019s incredibly important and a lot of time was spent on it within the select committee: \u201CThe Minister told us that access to, and distribution of, child sexual abuse material across borders is a \u2018significant and increasing problem\u2019. He said [that] the United Nations estimates that the criminal market for the global sexual exploitation of children generates between US$3 billion and US$20 billion a year. Also, the Internet Watch Foundation reported a 57 percent increase of websites showing these kinds of images. Customs reported 1.4 million attempts over the past three years to import or export child sexual material over New Zealand\u2019s cyber border, (excluding the Dark Web). This is an average of 1,000 attempts a day.\u201D And so there was consensus across the select committee that this is indeed an incredible focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThere was also, within the defence force, very quickly, I might add, a huge focus to ensure that property, plant, and military equipment\u2014that we need to keep us safe and keep our borders safe, and that hasn\u2019t been upgraded over years\u2014be upgraded. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022985ddfacb26343a098bc2dbbafc31e2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022985ddfacb26343a098bc2dbbafc31e2d\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much. I agree with my colleague who has just spoken, Priyanca Radhakrishnan, that the conversation in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee was a very useful one. Indeed, of the many hearings that I have participated in, attended, or answered questions in, this was one of the most useful, one of the most insightful, and one where we almost got the answers that we required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe started with a very wide-ranging conversation about the need for bipartisanship in foreign affairs, and that, actually, what bipartisanship meant for an Opposition was that they wouldn\u2019t necessarily agree with everything the Government did\u2014indeed, didn\u2019t have to agree with much of what the Government did\u2014but we shouldn\u2019t be afraid of that, actually, robust debate in the committee that in this House leads to better foreign affairs outcomes for New Zealand, and that we shouldn\u2019t be afraid to actually debate important issues of foreign affairs, both in public and in this place for the people of New Zealand. It can\u2019t be left to any one Government, irrespective of what parties are involved in that Government, and I made that the case both when we were in Government and now, of course, with a different Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI would say that the Rt Hon Winston Peters recognised that there should be opportunities for us to explore these sorts of things. He did say that the Government would have information that an Opposition wouldn\u2019t, which, perhaps, would make it difficult for an Opposition\u2014any Opposition\u2014to have these conversations. In conversation with him in the committee, he also accepted that we must find ways to share more information. The greater involvement that New Zealanders have through observation, or being able to put their views to Parliament or members of Parliament on issues of foreign affairs, can only be good for democracy and can only be good for this House and the direction the Government goes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EOf course, it is for the Government to make decisions with Cabinet as to what they do internationally. There are many occasions where they will involve the Opposition and bring them with them. But, ultimately, the only way that there is acceptance of the importance that our diplomats and our officers overseas and our Ministers when they go away do on behalf of New Zealand is when there is buy-in from the public. I\u2019m of the view that there are too many members of our public that don\u2019t understand the great, great job that our ambassadors and our officials and our diplomats do overseas. And that\u2019s understandable because, actually, largely, their interaction may only be if they lose a passport, if they get in trouble, or if they are there, perhaps, looking at some trade. But, ultimately, we have a very large number of people around the world that represent us well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Minister extended an olive branch to the committee, in my conversation with him, and accepted that, perhaps, on seven occasions a year, this House would set aside time to debate foreign affairs. And we accepted that offer from him. I did suggest that seven may be a number to aspire to over time, and that it would be a challenge, and, perhaps, to talk to the Leader of the House or Cabinet about that. The Rt Hon Winston Peters assured me it wouldn\u2019t be an issue if we decided on seven, but, perhaps, we would start with fewer. We take him up on that offer, and I think this House should do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a debate about the spending in foreign affairs, where the Opposition gets to criticise and ask certain questions. What I was proposing was a wide-ranging debate on foreign affairs issues, not in urgency or because something\u2019s happened in the world but, actually, to raise the issues and have understanding. In the type of debates this Parliament used to have before the advent of MMP, when parliamentarians were locked away here and couldn\u2019t get leave unless it was an exceptional given by the Opposition, there were wide-ranging debates and the quality of debate was quite outstanding\u2014I think we should do that much more in foreign affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe final point I wanted to make here is that we had a discussion about Israel in the committee. The Opposition raised the concern we had that the New Zealand Government had a map up on one of their websites, showing Israel as Palestine. That was a grave error. We sought, on behalf of the Jewish community in New Zealand, an apology. And the Minister was forthright in providing that and offering it, and said he would ensure it would never happen again. There could be many reasons why this happened\u2014none of them are good reasons; none of them are acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIt is time that we made sure that all across Government in New Zealand, they are clear on New Zealand\u2019s position on Israel and Palestine and the Middle East. Actually, it is time for the Government to make a decision that the embassy that looks after the State of Israel, the independent State of Israel, is no longer in Turkey; it is Israel. The Opposition would support that. That would be a very good use of money. Concerningly, there is no money in the Budget for that, but it is something we should debate in this House when we take the Minister up to have that first debate he promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebf5d83226b4cfd9cf92d030f400d5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebf5d83226b4cfd9cf92d030f400d5f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, I was expecting more enthusiasm there. Can I, firstly, acknowledge, actually, Paolo Garcia, who stepped in to act as the speaking chair earlier in this debate on behalf of foreign affairs, and did an excellent job. I\u2019ll touch briefly on a number of the areas including customs; not only that it falls within this vote but, obviously, the Minister in the chair, the Hon Jenny Salesa\u2014to acknowledge her taking that role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut I would start with some thoughts that came out of the Vote Foreign Affairs and Trade. The member who has just resumed his chair, Todd McClay, touched on an important element in that around Israel. It was very timely and topical because, in this case, Immigration New Zealand had put up a false map and a misleading map that caused a lot of distress across various communities in New Zealand\u2014of course, within the Israeli and Jewish community more confusion and then increased frustration. So we were very pleased as a committee to raise that with the Minister not because it was a foreign affairs error\u2014it was Immigration New Zealand\u2014but we were heartened as a committee, I think, and I was, that the Minister was forthright and has given assurances to the committee that this will not happen again and that the correct processes will be put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve called for, for a while, as well, that New Zealand should be relooking at how it does its diplomatic relations with Israel, notably that we should not be having those relationships out of Ankara. That\u2019s not needed. In fact, it arguably is the wrong symbolism\u2014would certainly encourage New Zealand, as we did in the discussion with the Minister, to relook at how it does its diplomacy in that regard. Personally, I\u2019d like to see it in Israel; just as Israel\u2019s shown us respect by having its ambassador here, we should be looking to have that in Israel. And, secondly, if that\u2019s not possible, then the credentialling should be out of another embassy, but not out of Turkey at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne of the elements of foreign affairs, which I thought needed a bit of attention, and gladly we talked to it, was around APEC. Obviously, in 2021, New Zealand will be hosting APEC. We\u2019re pleased to see that more money was put in. That\u2019s not unexpected but there are questions from this side of the House, in particular, whether enough money has been put aside. Just under NZ$200 million at the moment has been appropriated, but we had noted that the Australians and the Papua New Guineans on their respective hostings had put over A$330 million into it, so a substantial amount of money is required for APEC. I think we all, on behalf of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, want to see that succeed in 2021, so there were challenges coming from the committee to see that, actually, the money was going to be necessarily spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere was a little bit of discussion around Scott Base in Antarctica. I had the great pleasure of actually joining people down there in January this year. I can see the needs, but I think one of the questions that the committee had was, obviously: what\u2019s the total spend going to be? There was some scepticism of the idea that millions of dollars would be given by private providers to fund Scott Base. I\u2019m personally a bit sceptical on that, and I\u2019d want to put on the record here too that Scott Base is primarily about science, and through the science, we advance our foreign affairs. And to that end that has to be the priority, and so the question will remain of whether the base development is simply about modernising or, as I say, supporting the science. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe did challenge the Minister around the Government\u2019s relative silence around what\u2019s happening in Venezuela. We did also raise concerns around the pace, if you will, of our engagement around Brexit, US, and EU trade deals. It\u2019s all well and good to speak; we want to see some action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI promised to touch on customs. Congratulations to the Minister of Customs on taking the portfolio. It\u2019s a fascinating one. I suppose the only and primary question that I had, and \u201Cconcern\u201D is possibly too strong a word, but, fundamentally, the budget this year is lower than what was spent in the year previous; I think it\u2019s about 3 percent lower. I acknowledge, particularly around child sex exploitation, new monies and focus there. I don\u2019t think anyone in this House would oppose that, but it was just a small question, if you will, of a ministry that had spent something like $249 million, I think it was, in the last year. We\u2019ve seen a budget lower\u2014lower\u2014than that and so it just raises some question around capability, particularly as the de minimis is changing: that is, the amount of goods\u2014value\u2014coming through, and there are some questions already that actually people are falsely bringing products into the country, falsifying documentation, and just making sure that the Customs Service has the money and support it needs to do its job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022b352df996e56406ba1fd0babea2d92c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b352df996e56406ba1fd0babea2d92c8\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to have a go at speaking in the Votes Foreign Affairs and Trade, Defence, and Customs. I am not on that committee, but I have listened to some of the debates that my colleagues have traversed in the Chamber, and have read the documents to get a sense of the sorts of issues that were raised. I listened with great interest and admiration, for example, to my colleague Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u2019s speech where she talked about: what is the role of our voice as a State\u2014our influence and our leadership? How do we work internationally with diplomacy across grassroots and communities and what are the bases of our relationship? What are the discussions that we have internationally? I listened to colleagues on this side of the Chamber also raising similar issues. I want to raise similar issues in my contribution today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really proud\u2014for example, back in 2000, in the National Government\u2019s term, when they actually led the signing of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We have had many issues raised around the world that cause us to pause and think about the diplomacy relationships that we possibly might have as a country. There are plenty of examples. Need I start with the fire burning our global lungs in the Amazon forests right now at this very moment\u2014and I am aware that the Prime Minister and also the foreign affairs Minister have offered comments. The Green Party shares the concerns with the global community about those fierce and widespread fires in the Amazon, many of which are deliberately lit. I wonder what sort of role and conversations we can have about the role of the global State but also what cautions we need to be talking about with the authorities and the leader of that country and of that region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn this instance, if I could put to the committee the sorts of inspiring conversations about what would prevent the decimation of those incredible forests that hold a massive amount of carbon-sinking ability for all of us, that hold some of the world\u2019s most important places of biodiversity and protecting the ecosystems there\u2014I wonder what our role is in being able to say that upholding the indigenous rights, for example, through the United Nation\u2019s declaration that we signed up to, and understanding that the female chiefs, in particular, have been trying to fight to protect those forests for decades against deforestation, against incredible and corporate resistance, which is aiding the fires that are burning horribly in front of our eyes right at the moment. So I join other colleagues who have raised other issues of international importance where we can have an influence and can have a voice, and that\u2019s just one example, but a very dire and urgent one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn the last part of my time, we have another example: indigenous peoples\u2019 responsibilities to collectively protect our places, our environment, and our communities as part of a global response to climate change, to addressing our responsibilities as a global partner, to reducing our emissions, and understanding the role that upholding the leadership of indigenous peoples has in that work\u2014the essential leadership, particularly of indigenous women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI close off with another example happening right now on the island of Hawaii, which is the protection and guardianship of Mauna Kea, where there is a proposal to build a giant 30-metre telescope\u2014a proposal which has seen an open letter signed by over 700 astronomers and astrophysicists who are saying that this sort of proposal is a lazy one that further tramples on the indigenous protection of that mountain, and we do not want it if that is what it is going to do. So there is opportunity for us to have those diplomatic discussions as leaders. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eab4fbcb0450412ea0b91a4e7e6280ba\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Customs, Vote Defence, Vote Defence Force, Vote Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Vote Official Development Assistance be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc8b8294fd6b4b10bdb96f419b0de78f\u0022\u003EFinance and Government Administration Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00223fb2d6b134714a88993c28ca9e990e97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fb2d6b134714a88993c28ca9e990e97\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the votes in the finance and government administration sector volume\u2014B.5, Volume 5. The question is that Vote Audit, Vote Communications Security and Intelligence, Vote Finance, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote Office of the Clerk, Vote Ombudsmen, Vote Parliamentary Service, Vote Prime Minister and Cabinet, Vote Revenue, Vote Security Intelligence, Vote State Services, and Vote Statistics stand part of the Schedules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00228658a8f1a5644c4ba709f852b5e2feda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228658a8f1a5644c4ba709f852b5e2feda\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E As the chair of the Finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743ea58782c74d30b8a68d76e410b43f\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a4426cd5f845348334dcbaa1a1828a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Expenditure Committee, I\u2019m delighted to take the first call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a780cbb973e4069a7d78a7a116b23a5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member. We\u2019ve got a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c16de97b301849ad9a493aca6c323c38\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. It was my understanding that Dr Jian Yang was the first speaker in this section of the Estimates debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a06f95414e4903ae2e3dc41c277c18\u0022\u003EDr Jian Yang\u003C/span\u003E: And I did call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d58f05cc3d2b45c2a2b729f1584c99ff\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand you sought the call. The advice that I have is that this section of the debate should be led by the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which is why I called Dr Deborah Russell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d2121c37e347ab9b4e467c6ce084dc\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve obviously got different information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4ac6631ede4df2892323fcc93cd65e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member, but that\u2019s the information I have. Back to Dr Deborah Russell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5108af0ec844d238a4b879d170bbf58\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: As chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I\u2019m delighted to lead off this particular debate. I wish to begin by paying tribute to the outgoing chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, Mr Michael Wood, who led us through the Estimates hearings for the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and who did a marvellous job, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt covers a large portfolio of interests in this particular section of the debate, and in the finance sector, we in particular look at Vote Audit, Vote Finance, and Vote Revenue\u2014all critical parts of the Government\u2019s work. I wish to focus in particular on Vote Finance and, very importantly, on the new approach that has been taken in this year\u2019s Budget, which was very much part of the discussion, especially in Vote Finance. It is a directional change in how we do Budgets in New Zealand and, as such, it\u2019s a very important matter. I am referring to the wellbeing approach and, within that, to the Living Standards Framework, which has been developed by Treasury over a number of years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe asked the Minister, \u201CWhat difference does this new approach make?\u201D, and the answer was that it makes a considerable difference. One of the many things it does is encourage agencies to work together\u2014so, instead of operating in silos, that agencies develop Budget bids together. I think the most interesting example of this was the joint venture package on family sexual violence, which will be discussed in a later vote. But, from our point of view\u2014from the point of view of this new approach\u2014it joined together these agencies: health, social development, education, justice, police, ACC, corrections, and the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, all working together as part of the wellbeing approach. It is a singular new approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Minister admitted that it had been a challenge getting agencies to work together, and this was something that Treasury said too, but they also pointed out that it was work they were doing already\u2014in particular, with the Living Standards Framework, which focuses around four capitals: financial and physical capital, natural capital, social capital, and human capital. That word \u201Ccapital\u201D is, of course, a very Treasury or a very financial word, and when we asked the Minister to talk about the difference between social capital and human capital, he said that social capital was really the way that we connect together and that human capital was the skills and capabilities of each person. Then, he gave a very specific example of how this might actually work in a budgetary approach. How did it work, for example, with the school donations? Now, this is the policy whereby, under this Labour Government, in return for extra funding for schools, parents will no longer be required to pay school donations. So what difference did it make? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn terms of a wellbeing analysis, the donations policy, as the Minister said, provides support to schools, which allows them to provide a strong educational environment, which is deeply relevant to human capital, and it supports parents by ensuring that they don\u2019t have to find that money each year, which supports their financial capital. This wellbeing approach could also be applied to KiwiRail investments to increase wellbeing, and we talked about it in the context of wellbeing approaches for State-owned enterprises. It is actually very possible to describe almost anything in terms of wellbeing, but that\u2019s not the point of the wellbeing approach and the Living Standards Framework. The point is to drive a new approach to doing budgeting in this country, and I recommend that each of us, in thinking about this Estimates debate, thinks of it in terms of that framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EJust turning briefly to Vote Revenue, at a stretch you can even apply it to Vote Revenue by talking about how the Business Transformation project, which makes life easier for ordinary taxpayers in terms of doing their tax returns, or not having to do them, and in terms of getting refunds automatically\u2014all part of that Business Transformation\u2014actually assists people\u2019s wellbeing. The wellbeing approach that we examined in these Estimates is new, it\u2019s revolutionary, it\u2019s exciting, and it is part of the transformation that this hard-working Government is leading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00228f86636f77684899a4af76a5691372bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f86636f77684899a4af76a5691372bd\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We come to talk about the Estimates of the Government, which, really, wants to tax more and spend more and, in the process, waste more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s take Vote Statistics, for example. Vote Statistics has funding of just over $32 million for new policy initiatives\u2014$32 million. Out of the $32 million, $16 million will be used to complete the 2018 census and to begin the 2023 census. I understand that the $16 million will be used for that. Now, had we had a more competitive, more capable Government, had we had a more responsible Minister of Statistics, and had he shown more interest in statistics, then we might have had the census data now, which means we would have saved millions and millions of dollars. But, unfortunately, now we are still waiting for the data from the 2018 census and we do not know whether the census data will indeed be accurate. So this is because this Minister was asleep at the wheel and didn\u2019t show much interest in the census. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, more importantly, the postponement of the release of census data and the extremely low response rate in the census have caused strong concerns in some communities\u2014particularly in the M\u0101ori and Pacific communities\u2014and also, because of the delay of the data and the problematic quality of the data, now we have to wait, and many Government agencies are not able to use the updated data to budget, to make their own funding. So this is a huge problem, a huge challenge, and very costly. Another $16 million out of the $32 million for a new policy initiative in this financial year is supposed to be used for\u2014I quote\u2014\u201Cmaintaining statistical products and services, data services and data system leadership\u201D. This sounds very encouraging and very positive. However, if we look carefully, then we\u2019ll see this money is not well spent, either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo this $16 million is not additional money, actually. Stats NZ made a bid and wanted more money, otherwise\u2014they made it clear\u2014Stats NZ would have to cut non-priority services. And guess what? Shortly after Budget day, Stats NZ indeed cut what they called non-priority services. They dropped four surveys, including the commercial accommodation monitor. Whilst Stats NZ might think that that is not important, for tourism groups this is extremely important. So they were simply shocked and devastated, and later on, in mid-July, we learnt that a few months before Budget day, Stats NZ made it clear that they needed a lot more money\u2014at least a minimum of $20 million\u2014and then more afterwards. In the end, it did not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EMuch of the $16 million supposed to be used for maintaining statistical products and services, data services, and data system leadership will be spent on\u2014what? It will be spent on an improved wellbeing measurement\u2014an improved wellbeing measurement. Now, this is yet another example of misguided policies from this Government. What they are doing is attempting to measure New Zealand wellbeing with what they call Indicators Aotearoa, but this is not achievable, is very elusive, and is about spiritual health, a sense of belonging, an ability to be yourself\u2014all these elusive indicators. How can we trust the Government to do it if they can\u2019t do the census properly? Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220244fe9b3e2c4d4d9910f06a2d343c75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220244fe9b3e2c4d4d9910f06a2d343c75\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for this opportunity. I\u2019m new to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and I\u2019m learning things about finance every day. I have to admire the Opposition for the way they\u2019re trying to grow our economy: you go overseas and you get someone from the Inner Mongolia racing club to invest in our country, growing the economy. They don\u2019t see that there\u2019s that much wrong with that, so I see that, clearly, the Opposition have got all the answers there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI think one of the great summaries of the previous Government that I heard was \u201CThey prepared it for sale.\u201D, and, of course, preparing something for sale means that you put a bit of black shiny stuff on the wheels. You don\u2019t get the warrant, you don\u2019t change the oil, but you make it look nice, and, certainly, that\u2019s pretty much what we inherited. We didn\u2019t buy it; we inherited it. I would say often there was a lot made by the previous Government about surpluses. Well, anyone can run a surplus if you don\u2019t pay the bills and you don\u2019t do the maintenance, and certainly that\u2019s been quite clear with what we inherited. We inherited an economy where no one had paid the bills and no one had done the maintenance, and it\u2019s that which has fallen upon this Government to do. A rock star economy? Well, there\u2019s no point having a rock star economy if no one can afford a ticket to that concert, and, again, that\u2019s the situation that we have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m very proud to be part of a Government that is actually tackling the long-term challenges which face this country: levels of investment, reinvestment, rebuilding on the things that we really need to do to ensure that we maintain the situation that we\u2019ve achieved in 18 months\u2014the fiscal responsibility. This is what I\u2019ve enjoyed: catching up with has actually gone through, the various Ministers that have come here and spoken during the appropriations debate, to ensure our Government\u2014the Government I\u2019m proudly part of, led by the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u2014is doing the right things for this country. Anyone who has any doubt, have a look and see just what has been achieved and what the various departments and various Ministers have addressed during this time. For example, the books are in good shape, delivering sustainable service and a strong GDP, despite what we hear about\u2014in fact, to the extent that I notice there\u2019s some dispute on the Opposition benches\u2014how much we should be borrowing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI understand there was someone saying we should be borrowing more. I actually do recall during the middle part of the 2000s, when I was speaking with the, unfortunately, now long-departed Roger Kerr, who was quite a well-respected economist in the Business Roundtable. At that time he was lamenting the performance of the New Zealand Government under Michael Cullen because we hadn\u2019t actually been borrowing at a time when countries like\u2014and he named them\u2014Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain were getting way ahead of us because they were borrowing. I understand the anachronism for that was the PIGS, and we saw what happened to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I just look at the way that this Minister of Finance is looking after our economy. It\u2019s extremely responsible, and he is carrying on from where Michael Cullen in that Government of the early part of the 2000s was, which, of course, ensured that when 2008 came along, when the global financial crisis came along, and, in fact, when the National Government arrived, they had 3 percent of GDP debt\u20143 percent. I think when we arrived, it was around well over 20 percent. So that just gives an idea of the continued responsibility of the Government, that I\u2019m certainly very proud to be part of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAlso, it\u2019s said often that we\u2019re not doing anything for business. Well, let\u2019s just go through Vote Revenue, which is part of this appropriation. \u201CPutting an end to unnecessary tax for workers with more than one job\u201D\u2014well, that\u2019s pretty good. That\u2019s addressing something for workers. \u201CEnsure companies in the digital economy who do business across borders as well as multinational companies pay their fair share of tax\u201D\u2014something again\u2014\u201Cextending the brightline test to address property speculation\u201D. Again, when I hear people complaining in the media about their prices going down\u2014although one price went down a lot earlier than others, I think, from reading the New Zealand Herald today, by about $500,000, which was clearly less than what it was worth. So, obviously, that started to happen north of Auckland, for some people, earlier than it did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo my time come has come to an end, but I\u2019m very happy to be part of a Government that is addressing all the long-term issues that we inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00222cdb028bd35342c19bdf1b70f6234211\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cdb028bd35342c19bdf1b70f6234211\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted in my contribution to speak about Vote Finance, and Vote Revenue, and if time permits I want to make some comments on Vote Statistics. I speak on finance and revenue as a permanent member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI, first of all, want to comment on what the committee recorded with regards to the economic outlook. So we\u2019ve just had a contribution by a Labour member, saying that the Minister of Finance is looking after the economy. We record in detail in this report that GDP growth now, as at June 2019, is 2.4 percent. In the report we note that Treasury suggests GDP growth at the end of June next year will be 3 percent. I say to this House today, that will not be achieved, and if any Minister or any member on the other side of the Chamber wants to take a bet\u2014I mean, with a bottle of New Zealand wine\u2014I\u2019m only too happy to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis economy will not achieve 3 percent, and it won\u2019t happen for two reasons. One, I accept, is we\u2019re facing international headwinds and that is because of the trade issue, it\u2019s because of the tweets from the President of the United States and his battle with China, it\u2019s because of the Brexit issue providing uncertainty, and, finally, it\u2019s because the Chinese economy is certainly slowing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s only one of the reasons for a decline in GDP growth in this country. The other major reason is that business has absolutely no confidence in the current Government, and we get successive confidence measures produced by the business community which say that the confidence in the current Government\u2019s agenda has never been lower. We\u2019ve seen it before with the response on monetary policy and the current Governor of the Reserve Bank, Adrian Orr, now reducing the official cash rate (OCR) to 1 percent. He\u2019s out there today\u2014he\u2019s quite an interesting governor. It\u2019s one that we haven\u2019t seen before\u2014very much a sort of in-your-face type of governor, and he\u2019s out there saying people should be investing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWell, I\u2019m sorry to say to Mr Orr and to this committee that just because the Governor of the Reserve Bank drops the OCR to 1 percent\u2014meaning we do have probably the cheapest interest rates you\u2019ve had, certainly in the time that I\u2019ve been borrowing money in farming businesses\u2014that doesn\u2019t mean to say that people will start to invest. They\u2019re not doing so, because they lack confidence in this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make on this report is the absence of the Secretary to the Treasury for our hearing on finance. It has never before happened in my 25 years in this place. The then Secretary to the Treasury did not bother to come to the select committee. Of course, at that time we had the issue whereby the Government and the Treasury, particularly, had left its website open, gifting to National a preview of the Budget the week before it was delivered. But Mr Makhlouf then went to the police and claimed criminal activity. He subsequently had to back down because it was incompetence at the Treasury that allowed the Budget to be pre-leaked to the National Party. So I just want to record the disgust, really, that we didn\u2019t have the secretary prepared to front to our select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI now move to Vote Revenue, and the particular issue I want to focus on is the Government\u2019s continuation to look at another tax, the vacant land tax. Both the Treasury and IRD have advised the Minister that this will make no difference whatsoever to housing affordability, yet the Minister is continuing to investigate this further tax. The question we ask now is: why does he continue to investigate a vacant land tax when what he says it will achieve\u2014an improvement in housing affordability\u2014has been rebutted by both Treasury and the IRD? I suspect we won\u2019t get an answer to that question I raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe final question I just want to raise is in regards to Vote Statistics\u2014a complete and utter shambles\u2014and I understand that the decision is now to proceed with the redraw of electoral boundaries based on this, effectively, false or fake information. I ask who is making the decision to proceed, because they should not be doing so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc451b1473e7426995b9ab11fdc41c7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc451b1473e7426995b9ab11fdc41c7a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m really pleased to be able to take a call in this debate, and, in particular, in my comments I wish to focus on Vote Finance and Vote Revenue. In contrast to the last speaker, who had a pretty gloomy and negative view of the world, I really want to focus on some of the very positive and good news that is reflected in the reports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on both of those votes, although I will acknowledge that the member did at least turn up to those Estimates hearings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWe heard during the Vote Finance hearings a lot of good news about the state of the economy and a lot of good news about the way in which the Government is making investments which are about the long-term health and sustainability of the economy\u2014looking ahead to 30 years, not just sort of trying to score points and get through the next two or three years, but planning for the long-term prosperity of New Zealand. So if we refer to the report, we see some really positive initiatives such as the establishment of the Infrastructure Commission\u2014actually having a body that coherently plans for all of that underlying economic and social infrastructure that New Zealanders rely upon. I\u2019m pleased there\u2019s been pretty broad support across the House for that Government initiative. But it really does speak to the approach that we see threaded through the report from the select committee of significant investments in the long-term wellbeing of New Zealand. It\u2019s noted in this report that we\u2019ve got a huge increase\u2014about a $10 billion increase over the next five years\u2014in the capital expenditure that the Government\u2019s putting into infrastructure through the multi-year capital allowance. That is something that is going to give all sorts of sectors, including the construction sector, much more confidence and ability to plan their spend, knowing the Government is making those investments that are necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the same with KiwiRail. Again, we see this in the report: a $1 billion investment in KiwiRail. That is recognising that for the past nine years it was run down\u2014absolutely run down\u2014and has had to be rescued by the previous Government that was made up of the constituent parties on this side of the House. Once again, under this coalition Government, $1 billion invested in the long-term viability of KiwiRail to get freight moving and get our regional economies moving. Those are the kinds of long-term investments that New Zealanders expect and are receiving from this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EAlso, there is good news in terms of the strong economic management. I do want acknowledge the previous speaker, the Rt Hon David Carter, who did acknowledge some of those significant economic headwinds that our economy is facing, and you\u2019d have to be utterly economically illiterate not to understand that a trade war between the world\u2019s two biggest economies, Brexit, and a slowing-down international situation aren\u2019t going to have a major effect on a small trading nation like New Zealand. Some colleagues on the other side of the Chamber make that out, but I\u2019ll acknowledge David Carter for acknowledging that those are challenges to the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on Vote Finance reveals is that in spite of those challenges, we are doing well. With growth around 2.5 percent, we are ahead of virtually all of our\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022515215e6e2c94d51a21d69b2878d7d54\u0022\u003EKanwaljit Singh Bakshi\u003C/span\u003E: From 4 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff5e9ad2b034d579a6d9a32fd36879a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014major trading partners. But the reality is, Mr Bakshi, that we live in the present; we don\u2019t live in the past. We live in the present, when we face these significant challenges to our exporters and to our growth prospects around the world, and we are doing better than virtually any of our trading partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EOne thing I note in the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014here\u2019s some more good news for members around the Chamber to really celebrate\u2014is that Treasury predicted, and it\u2019s in the report there, that by mid-2020, we might get unemployment down to 4 percent. Well, the good news is that actually we\u2019ve already seen unemployment reduce down to 3.9 percent, the lowest in 11 years, and despite the protestations of members on the other side of the House that you can\u2019t have low unemployment and grow wages\u2014because, boy, do they make a lot of noise every time we raise the minimum wage and support workers to get better wages\u2014at the same time as we have the lowest unemployment in 11 years, at 4.4 percent, we have the highest wage growth in 11 years. That is the record of this coalition Government in terms of providing work and opportunity, and a fair chance to get ahead for ordinary Kiwi workers: the lowest unemployment in 11 years and the best wage growth. That\u2019s all very, very positive. This is a Government, as reflected through the reports, that is managing the economy well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI noted in the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee that one of the areas we\u2019re making savings in is that our debt-servicing costs are lower than predicted, and that is because, ahead of schedule, despite the big investments I\u2019ve talked about, this Government has worked our debt down to 19.9 percent, which is already below the targets that we\u2019ve set. So we\u2019re saving money there so we can make the investments that we need. These reports reveal a Government that is making the long-term investments that are to the benefit and wellbeing of all New Zealanders. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b224497d3f234628b0863e7847ea7871\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b224497d3f234628b0863e7847ea7871\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Judith Collins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9febff47d88473b8bb2ca82b1e67149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9febff47d88473b8bb2ca82b1e67149\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014a great choice. I think I\u2019ve been listening to people on the other side of the Chamber who are living in a fool\u2019s paradise. Anybody who wants to know about how lacking in confidence small-business people are should go out and visit some of the people in our electorates, where people are actually deciding that they can\u2019t take on extra staff. They can\u2019t get skilled staff in to do the work, because the Immigration Service is now so absolutely hopeless at letting anybody in who is skilled. They\u2019re orchardists\u2014we have people who have berry farms who can\u2019t get people in. Why? Because this Government has a big issue around immigration. You\u2019ve got three parties to it who actually voted against the sort of immigration that National was very happy to enable into this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWhen I\u2019ve been listening to some of the contributions from the other side tonight, I\u2019ve heard some comments about how interest rates are really low. They are, actually\u2014they\u2019re the lowest I can certainly remember. And there is another issue with that too, which is that when you have very low interest rates, it is very easy for people not to put their money into banks. It is very easy for people to say, \u201CWell, I\u2019ll go and put my money somewhere else.\u201D It may be, for instance, overseas. It is very easy for people to do that. If low interest rates were the answer, then Japan would have become more of the powerhouse that it used to be economically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d98c021a574af5a2f50f0a293859ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2019/20 Estimates) Bill. When we suspended for the dinner break, the committee was debating the Finance and Government Administration Sector. The Hon Judith Collins had the call and has three minutes and 20 seconds remaining of her speech, should she wish to take it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe02a10453b047b6b9f548133261b3bc\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she does. Thank you, Madam Chair. Only three minutes, 19 seconds? I mean, goodness, I really need at least 35 minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really important that we come back to the theme of the economy and the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s Estimates, and our concerns that we felt in the committee about some of the head-in-the-sand type of behaviour coming from the Government. I think one of the big issues is the issue of business confidence, and we\u2019ve seen quite a robust debate coming along\u2014it seems to be quite one-sided\u2014from the Governor of the Reserve Bank, which I have to say I\u2019ve never seen before from a Governor of the Reserve Bank. I\u2019ve always thought Governors of the Reserve Bank should be sort of quiet, unassuming, and should just keep a lot of confidence, but there\u2019s certainly a bit of rarking up going on between the Governor and the banks generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that is really important is that we understand that whatever happens on a bad side in the world\u2019s economies such as Australia and China, and the US, Europe, and elsewhere, it tends to hit us quite early on in the piece. That\u2019s just a historical fact, and that is also based on the fact that we are very much a trading nation. We cannot really survive as a country without being able to trade, and, particularly, trade in the agricultural area. It is also really important to remember that it often takes us longer to recover than other countries, for instance. So we were hugely helped during the global financial crisis, which started to occur in the world in 2007-08, because of the strength of the Chinese economy and the fact that it was growing so steadily, and also because Australia was seen to be benefiting from that as well. Australia and China, as you will know, are our two biggest trading partners, and when they do well, we tend to do well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe problem that we\u2019re seeing at the moment is that they\u2019re not necessarily doing quite as well as one would hope, and that does create a huge amount of uncertainty in the world. So it\u2019s really important in New Zealand that our Government not do fruit-loopy - type things and actually do things like take wonderful productive farmland and plant it full of disgusting pine trees that drop needles everywhere and which the people who mostly benefit from it seem to be overseas investors, who have cottoned on to the little schemes going here in New Zealand. In the meantime, rural New Zealand and provincial New Zealand is being replaced\u2014people are being replaced\u2014by trees, and that is not good for this country. We have a huge natural advantage in agriculture. We feed the world with our mere 1 percent of the world\u2019s cattle, and yet we are seeing this Government intent on ruining that wonderful asset that we have and turning it into pine trees. I give you Kaingaroa Forest\u2014nothing but pulp and paper is the quality of what was coming out of that. That\u2019s what this Government is doing to our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00224023c745e0714f20bc067b2a162b3afa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224023c745e0714f20bc067b2a162b3afa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Fletcher Tabuteau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ab5704f92041a9b7ad617a1af18a2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ab5704f92041a9b7ad617a1af18a2b\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate that very much, Madam Chair. Thank you for this opportunity for the contribution this evening on the Finance and Government Administration Estimates debate. I just want to actually take this time to thank the previous speaker, Collins, and, actually, before her, the Rt Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdfb9c8a51b94e7d94e9f76f0ec20fe1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Full name, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c54bb79855c44b098a9647e319abfd3e\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, really? Judith Collins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b80df57f9e4dd395f5713d87bfeb59\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Hon Judith Collins. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022782d4996db4e4998baa2144f092b34ac\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Hon Judith Collins\u2014absolutely. Very honourable. And, in that case, I also thank the Rt Hon David Carter, because they took time in their contributions this evening to acknowledge the circumstance in\u2014well, there\u2019s so many of them\u2014the world in which this isolated economy is performing, and performing incredibly well. So I acknowledge that they took time out of their contribution and spoke quite eloquently to the fact that New Zealand is very much caught up in those international headwinds. Both of them spoke quite eloquently\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c15be144de4b74a07cafcb60fd89c5\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Which headwinds? The Rugby World Cup? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21a3f4a13cc4af0bf0670c99fe45eb1\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is unusual. But, Mr Bidois, you were clearly not listening to your own members, who were speaking eloquently, as I said, about the trade debate, the trade issues, the contest that is trade between America and China. They were speaking about the circumstances in Europe and much of the issues that this world is facing right now, and the impact that is having on the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EBut I want to take the time to acknowledge the hearings where we had the Minister of Finance in front of the select committee, where he was able to outline some of the highlights for the New Zealand economy and why the other side of the House needs to cheer up. They need to cheer up because, right now, we have a huge amount of New Zealand businesses who are making large sums of money overseas right now. Exports are at some of the highest that this country has seen in a long, long time, and that\u2019s hard-working New Zealand men and women doing what they do well, supported by a Government who\u2019s making sure that they can make some good coin overseas. And those on that side of the House don\u2019t like it\u2014they don\u2019t like it. It\u2019s just ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo, what else? [Interruption] The Minister spoke to the committee about managing surpluses, Mr King. He spoke to the committee about $6 billion worth of projected surpluses in this current Budget period, and the fact that whilst we are paying down debt\u2014\u201Cdebt\u201D being a dirty word on the Opposition side right now because they just don\u2019t know, between the spokesperson who should be talking about debt on their behalf and the Opposition leader, just what a good level of debt might look like. But we do. We know, and we have committed to meeting the 20 percent of GDP in the next couple of years. Actually, at one point we were meeting that target, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b6f2f698df842d9986ae8e6dfc34dd1\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s met already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a0b547b6f84fc1ae6b64fdaf3c48fb\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we were already there, and now we are back on track to do that because it is a responsible Government. I say that in all sincerity, because whilst we are running surpluses, this is a Government that is spending money in our regions, on our hospitals, in our schools, on our roads, on our transport sector\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a06544f173474383da520c5b158f0a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Roads! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022884a42a3e56940ff9ac8288090e8521a\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, roads. Listen to the gaggle of the Opposition members. They bring joy to my heart\u2014they bring joy to my heart, because spending on roads by this Government, as the Minister pointed out, is tens of millions of dollars higher than those now in the Opposition attempted to do themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s so much more to speak about, but I only have 15 seconds left, and I really want to hear the member from Northland. So I will sit down and say this is a great Government to be a part of. We have a great Minister of Finance and Minister of Revenue, and I thank them for their efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002240c0b0785a92447381ef0628d0a51525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240c0b0785a92447381ef0628d0a51525\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to make a few comments traversing the Estimates examination for Vote Internal Affairs, and while I do have a few brickbats to offer tonight, I also have a bouquet, but I\u2019ll leave that till the end because that\u2019s a nice thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I want to make a comment around the RealMe project, which we heard from within the Vote Internal Affairs Estimates hearing. It was a bit sad to hear the same story that we\u2019ve heard for well over two years now, since this Government came into being, particularly in this year of delivery, to hear that in terms of RealMe\u2014which is New Zealand\u2019s online digital identity service. The concept is fantastic\u2014it came in under a National Government, of course\u2014but the RealMe ID verified gives small businesses and individuals access to Government departments and other businesses with one point of ID. For individuals, it is most useful because it can be used for passport services and all sorts of transactions and identity verification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo it was really very sad to hear, as we were told\u2014and I\u2019m quoting\u2014that \u201CAlthough the uptake of RealMe has been lower than expected, it is still used extensively, now that\u201D, and on and on and on it goes. In other words, no progress\u2014in this year of delivery, no progress. So that\u2019s No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to move now to local government and mention the Three Waters Review. Once again, this is a story from the Minister of Local Government in the year of delivery about not a whole lot of progress. The Three Waters Review was announced in the wake of the Havelock North campylobacter inquiry. There were two reports. The first report came to the National Government. The second landed on the lap of the new Minister of Local Government. She promised the world; in fact, she travelled the world. She travelled to Scotland, Ireland, England, and Edinburgh, had a look at different methods of water delivery, and promised that there would be sweeping reforms. So what, in the end, did it come down to? It really came down to a $26 million Budget bid, which was declined in the Budget, for the three waters reform programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThose of us who follow projects such as the three waters reform programme will notice that, very quietly, the Government seems to have dropped any reference to amalgamation of water bodies. Why is that? Because it was a dumb idea, and local government\u2014quite rightly\u2014crunched the numbers on it and said to hang on a minute: there may well be problems in some areas of water delivery in New Zealand, but also, equally, there are a number of councils throughout New Zealand who are doing just fine. Not only are they doing just fine now in terms of water service delivery but they are planning for the future. The picture is actually quite patchy. So those big, hairy-chested reforms that the Minister of Local Government proposed have been quietly shelved, backed up by the lack of a $26 million fund, which was turned down by the Minister of Finance, who, no doubt, had more important things to do with that money, such as the light rail in Auckland or maybe the Shane Jones slush fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to reference the proactive release of Government material, and I\u2019ve turned now to the Office of the Ombudsmen. The proactive release of Government material has been nothing but shadows. It has been nothing but talk and no delivery in this year of delivery. I would like to see Ministers disclose their ministerial diaries in a more timely manner than the three-month horizon which I\u2019m currently experiencing. It\u2019s not good enough. This is the most open and transparent Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c05ae4d2ff748478a56c1fc38c03a96\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a84ae5fe9344d38b8cc97cd2741720\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014right\u2014that the world has ever seen. So to release a diary three months after the fact falls somewhat short of that and, I am sure, is giving a lot of concern to the Speaker of the House, who\u2019s stewarding this project through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EFinally, the bouquet. I just want to acknowledge Peter Boshier, the Chief Ombudsman, who, when he came to our Finance and Expenditure Committee, acknowledged that there are ways in which the Office of the Ombudsmen could serve constituency MPs in dealing with their constituents\u2019 complaints\u2014he did that. He did that. He resolved it, and I thank him for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002273b0a509df974e4fa99909026f6942e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b0a509df974e4fa99909026f6942e1\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I say it\u2019s with real pleasure that I rise to speak on the Estimates and, in particular, on finance. Sitting through the Treasury Estimates was quite enlightening in particular, because it gave me a real insight into the role that Treasury plays in giving an independent voice and an independent oversight of Government finances, and when we listened to Treasury, we got pretty much unedited the great state that New Zealand\u2019s finances are in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s not to say there\u2019s not challenges ahead and that things don\u2019t change, but when you get constant year-on-year growth, you know you\u2019re in a good position to face the international storms that may be ahead. So whilst there has been a drop-off in GDP growth, Treasury could tell us why that happened, and it wasn\u2019t due to things that those on the other side would carp on about, but it\u2019s due to entirely explicable reasons such as slowing immigration, a policy which this Government has implemented. So we have what Treasury described as solid growth, and to be quite frank, I\u2019d rather have solid growth, year on year, than the erratic kind of growth that the policies of the last Government would have given us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s more is we heard that our economy is at full capacity\u2014that is to say that there wasn\u2019t a whole lot of extra space in there for utilisation. We know that employment is pretty much full: 3.9 percent. There\u2019s a few people out there who could get jobs, and I know we\u2019re working very hard on that, but there\u2019s not a whole lot of people out there to come into the workforce. So that\u2019s really good, and the fiscal outlook is good. We were told that, in fact, core Crown debt is tracking down, as had been predicted, and, in fact, we are now in the much needed position, Treasury tells us, that Crown expenses can go up to meet the deficits in things like infrastructure and social spending. So core Crown expenses will, in fact, go to an 8.3 percent increase this year\u2014and that\u2019s very much needed\u2014and will then still increase by slightly less next year, to 6.8 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s really good, because we know there\u2019s a whole lot of work to do\u2014a whole lot of catching up to do on fixing our hospitals, fixing our schools, and improving the welfare of our citizens\u2014but against that background, we hear that revenue is increasing. In fact, our surpluses are going up. There\u2019s going to be an extra $25.4 billion in tax revenue. That\u2019s great news\u2014that\u2019s great news. What it means is that we\u2019ve got a whole lot more activity. Despite the naysayers out there and despite the harbingers of doom and gloom, we\u2019ve got a growing economy where tax revenue is going up and Crown spending is going up. So we can do things like the Families Package: spend billions of dollars looking after our families and our children so that they\u2019re warm and cared for and they can meet their expenses on a day-to-day basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, we heard about the Living Standards Framework. I must say that the Minister spoke eloquently about the Living Standards Framework, and what a great innovation it was\u2014the whole idea of across-department bids for funding. So we know that if we\u2019re going to apply for funds, we don\u2019t simply want the Ministry of Education applying for funds for the mental health, but we\u2019re also getting the Ministry of Health coming for those funds, or Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014a whole lot, across the range\u2014so that parties are working together and are not at cross purposes. It\u2019s that whole idea of not simply saying how much we\u2019re spending and what the outputs are but what are the real mental health outcomes of a spend, for example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo it was really good to hear that, and to hear an explanation of the distinctions between human capital and social capital. The idea of education being partly human capital, increasing the nature of us as individuals, but also being part of social capital\u2014the idea that we\u2019re a better society for it. If, for example, in our schools we learn Te Reo, we\u2019re a better, more connected community. So it was really good to see the Minister of Finance explaining that innovative approach and talking about what a strong position our economy is in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00225ac1dfc4457045af80fce998139fbfe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ac1dfc4457045af80fce998139fbfe0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call the Hon Paul Goldsmith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002261cbb51cce1a450a9279b4c93f12f49b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261cbb51cce1a450a9279b4c93f12f49b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s very kind of you, Madam Chair, and it\u2019s great to speak on this element. We\u2019re talking about the finance side. Remember that this was called the botched Budget\u2014the botched Budget. People might\u2019ve forgotten. One of the things that, of course, we spend the money on Treasury for is to do the basics well, which is to draw up a Budget and not put it on a website three days before the Budget so that everybody can see it, and then turn around and complain about the Opposition doing their job, which is researching about what the Budget spending is all about. Remember that this was a Budget\u2014the first time I\u2019ve ever seen a Budget delivered on a Thursday and the Prime Minister wasn\u2019t on the television news that night talking about the Budget. She was running a mile away from it because it was a shambles\u2014the way that it was delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut then we come to the issues of the actual Budget and what it delivered for itself. I think things are crystallising in the hearts and minds of New Zealanders around the country as they reflect upon this Government\u2019s economic management, or lack thereof, at a time when the economy is slowing and business confidence is through the floor and people are wondering about where we\u2019re heading as a country and what we\u2019re achieving. The three issues that are crystallising are that this Government knows how to spend, and there\u2019s no question about that, but what is the quality of the spending? It\u2019s very easy to spend lots of money, but it\u2019s much harder to spend it effectively and to actually achieve something purposeful with the money that\u2019s being spent. So the quality of the spending\u2014that\u2019s one issue. The second issue is delivery. This is, of course, the year of delivery, remember? We were told \u201CThis year is the year of delivery.\u201D, and we\u2019re just hoping\u2014we\u2019re hoping against hope\u2014that the only thing that they deliver is not a slowing economy. So we\u2019re asking every month: what are they going to be delivering with all this money? The third issue, of course, is the question of competence: is this Government actually competent? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI want to go through these things. So, spending\u2014when we look at the spending, what are we getting for all this money? Well, Shane Jones is wandering around the countryside with a roll of twenties, handing them out in a very loose fashion, where he himself described the nature of the decision making as \u201CTo the victor goes the spoils.\u201D, \u201CTo the winner goes to the booty.\u201D, and when really pressed on the issue, \u201CThat is the way the cookie crumbled.\u201D So that is the quality of the spending decision framework that we have for the $3 billion in the Provincial Growth Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETreasury, which we\u2019re giving all this money to, who are supposed to be focused on ensuring that there\u2019s good quality outcomes for the spending that it\u2019s responsible for\u2014what are they going to do? To work out how effective the money that is being spent in the Provincial Growth Fund is, what are they going to do? They\u2019re going to spend the $3 billion and then do a quick survey at the end to figure out whether they got any value for money. Now, that\u2019s the way that this outfit is running the economy, and no wonder people are nervous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we think of the fees-free programme, and we all know that we\u2019ve spent hundreds of millions on that and we\u2019ve actually got fewer students than we had in the first place. We can all list examples of very poor quality spending and waste. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen when it comes to delivery, what were they going to deliver? That is the question that\u2019s hanging around, because this is a Government that seems to think that all they need to do is announce that they\u2019re going to spend a whole lot of money and then the problem is solved. You know, a lot of people agree with the idea of spending extra money on mental health\u2014$1.9 billion. Great, but that is not the solution. Just announcing that you\u2019re spending the money is not the solution. They\u2019re having to go around the countryside and talk to people about how they should actually spend this money and what they should actually do. You would think they would\u2019ve done that thinking before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a question of delivery\u2014that\u2019s the question\u2014and why people are worried about that is because of the manifest incompetence that the Government has demonstrated so far in the way that they\u2019ve done things. We think of KiwiBuild, of course. Remember Phil Twyford stomping up and down the countryside? \u201CWhat a bunch of idiots the National Party were. They didn\u2019t know how to build houses. We\u2019re going to build 10,000 houses a year. We\u2019re going to build 100,000 of them. This is easy\u2014this is easy.\u201D Then, we\u2019d see him after the election, and I\u2019d go up to him and pat him on the shoulders and say, \u201CThank goodness, Phil Twyford, that you\u2019re going to fix the housing crisis.\u201D And what happened? Well, nothing, actually. What are we up to? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241585d9741854798a617cb887d9ed948\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: 280. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c10ca5dad4441c49e79e7a5743cbc88\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Is it 280? I thought it was 73, but it could be 280. They\u2019ve completely given up on KiwiBuild\u2014it is a disaster and a shambles. We would\u2019ve liked to have seen it succeed. Of course all New Zealanders would like to see some real progress on housing affordability. It\u2019s one of the great issues of the day, and it\u2019s one of the great focuses of the economic discussion document that we released on Monday, which I\u2019ll refer to\u2014a great document which outlines how the National Party would go about restoring confidence, reviving the economy, and lifting our aspirations as a country, both in terms of what we can earn but the problems and the challenges that we can overcome as a country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6de6242d38841399ffcaf9462bf7b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6de6242d38841399ffcaf9462bf7b58\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Heamana, e tino harikoa ana ahau te t\u016B i t\u0113nei p\u014D ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei kaupapa, ar\u0101, m\u014D te p\u014Dti p\u016Btea. He mema ahau o te komiti p\u016Btea. I reira an\u014D hoki ahau m\u014D te k\u014Drero o te taenga mai o Te Minita m\u014D te P\u016Btea, ar\u0101 te Hon Grant Robertson. I rongo ahau i \u014Dna k\u014Drero, kua p\u0101nui ahau i te r\u012Bpoata me te tuhinga roa an\u014D hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EE hiahia ana ahau ki te whakawaha ake \u0113tahi o \u014Dku whakaaro i puta mai i taua hui. I te t\u012Bmatanga o taua hui, ko te amuamu a t\u0113r\u0101 taha o Te Whare, m\u014D te kore tae mai t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o te kaitohutohu kaupapa p\u016Btea. Koir\u0101 noa iho t\u0101 r\u0101tou k\u014Drero m\u014D te nuinga o te w\u0101 i roto i taua hui, taua komiti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EEngari i \u0101ta whakarongo ahau ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero o Te Minita. I mea mai ia he tuatahitanga t\u0113nei, he Tahua P\u016Btea e h\u0101ngai ana, e titiro ana ki te oranga o te t\u0101ngata, ki te oranga o t\u0113nei motu o Aotearoa. He tuatahitanga t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea. He aha ai? I whakam\u0101rama mai Te Minita te rerek\u0113tanga o te hanga i t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea, ki \u0113r\u0101 atu i ng\u0101 tau kua pahure ake nei. I aromatawai te kaitohutohu kaupapa p\u016Btea i ng\u0101 tikanga o t\u0113nei mea te oranga. Ar\u0101 ko te p\u016Btea, ng\u0101 rawa, ko te taiao, ko te hapori, ko te t\u0101ngata an\u014D hoki. E h\u0101ngai p\u016B ana t\u0113nei Tahua P\u016Btea ki te Anga Paerewa Oranga, ar\u0101 ko te Living Standards Framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EN\u0101, ka tae mai ng\u0101 tono o ng\u0101 tari k\u0101wanatanga katoa, ka aromatawai te kaitohutohu kaupapa p\u016Btea. He aha te rerek\u0113tanga o ng\u0101 tono i puta mai i t\u0113n\u0101? Tuatahi, i piki ake te mate \u0101-hinengaro, te m\u0101uiui o te hinengaro o te tangata. Ki te mea tuatahi, me hoatu moni, me hoatu p\u016Btea t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga. Mehemea e hiahia ana t\u0101tou te kite kia piki atu te oranga o t\u0113nei motu, ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata katoa e noho ana i roto i t\u0113nei motu, koia t\u0113r\u0101 te mea tuatahi. Tuarua ko te whakapiki ake i te oranga o ng\u0101 tamariki, ko te whakaheke i te noho o te p\u014Dharatanga o ng\u0101 tamariki i roto i Aotearoa nei. Tuatoru, ko te whai mahi. Ko te mana i roto i te mahi. Ko te whakawhanaketanga i te \u014Dhanga o Aotearoa. Tuawh\u0101, ko te tautoko i ng\u0101 wawata, i ng\u0101 hiahia, i ng\u0101 t\u016Bmanako o te iwi M\u0101ori, o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o te Moana Nui a Kiwa an\u014D hoki. I te mea mutunga, ko te whakangao hei t\u016B pakari, t\u016B roa, ng\u0101 h\u014Dhipere, ng\u0101 kura, w\u0113r\u0101 mea katoa i roto i Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira i te rerek\u0113tanga o te aromatawai i ng\u0101 tono o ng\u0101 tari K\u0101wanatanga, koia w\u0113r\u0101 ng\u0101 mea i puta mai i taua whakam\u0101tautau, koia ng\u0101 mea i whiwhia nei te p\u016Btea. N\u014D reira e kite ana t\u0101tou ko te mahi a Te K\u0101wanatanga ko te tohatoha i ng\u0101 moni, ko te hoatu i ng\u0101 moni, ki te whakatikatika i ng\u0101 raruraru nui kei mua i t\u014D m\u0101tou aroaro. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EE hia k\u0113 ng\u0101 tau \u0113nei raruraru e titiro ana m\u0101tou, e kite ana m\u0101tou, engari horekau he mahi. Engari kua t\u012Bmata te mahi ki te whakatikatika i t\u0113nei t\u016B\u0101huatanga o w\u0113nei raruraru kino i roto i Aotearoa nei. E m\u014Dhio ana m\u0101tou e kore e taea te whakatikatika i te p\u014D kotahi noa iho. E kao. He nui ng\u0101 mahi kei mua i te aroaro. Ko te mea nui, kua t\u012Bmata t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga ki te whakatikatika i te nui o ng\u0101 tamariki e moe ana i roto i ng\u0101 motok\u0101. Te mea horekau he whare. R\u0101tou horekau he mahi. Kua heke te nama o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kore mahi ki te 3.9 paih\u0113neti o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata. He mea pai t\u0113n\u0101. N\u014D reira, ko te mea nui kua t\u012Bmata m\u0101tou te \u0101ta titiro ki t\u0113nei mea te oranga. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E[Greetings to the Chair. I am pleased to stand tonight to speak about this matter, namely the financial vote. I am a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I was also there for the discussion with the Minister of Finance, namely the Hon Grant Robertson. I heard what he said, and I read the report and also the longer version. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to express some of my thoughts that emerged from that meeting. At the start of that meeting, the Opposition of this House was complaining that none of the people from Treasury had come along. That was all they had to say for most of the duration of that meeting, that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EHowever, I listened attentively to what the Minister said. He said that this is a first, a Budget which is aligned with, and looks at, the wellbeing of people, the wellbeing of this country of New Zealand. This Budget is a first. Why? The Minister explained the difference in the structure of this Budget, to those of years past. Treasury has assessed the meaning of the concept of wellbeing\u2014namely, financial, material, environmental, community, and also people. This Budget is directly aligned to the Living Standards Framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo, the requests of all the Government departments came in, and were assessed by Treasury. What is the difference of the requests which arose from this? Firstly, there was an increase to mental illness, the sickness of a person\u2019s mind. Firstly, money should be given, this Government should allocate budget. If we want to see an increase in the wellbeing of this country, of the people living in this country, that is the first thing. Secondly: to increase the wellbeing of children, to reduce the children living in poverty in New Zealand. Thirdly: employment. Having status within work. The development of the economy of New Zealand. Fourthly: supporting the dreams, the desires, and the aspirations of M\u0101ori people, and Pacific people. The last thing: investing so that the hospitals, schools, and such like in New Zealand stand strong and long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ETherefore, the difference in assessment of the requests from Government departments, these things are what emerged from that test, these things are what received the funding. Therefore, we see that what the Government is doing is to distribute money, give out money, to address the significant problems which lie before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWe have been looking at these problems for so many years, seeing them, but yet nothing has been done. However, the work has begun to address this aspect of these terrible problems in New Zealand. We know that it won\u2019t be fixed overnight. No indeed. There is much work ahead of us. The main thing is that this Government has started to correct the number of children who are sleeping in cars, those who have no house, and those who have no work. The number of people who are unemployed has reduced to 3.9 percent of people. That is a good thing. Therefore, the main thing is that we have started to really look at wellbeing. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022 data-id=\u0022c20c314b79214bf6903206e6e49619cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c20c314b79214bf6903206e6e49619cc\u0022\u003EKANWALJIT SINGH BAKSHI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity. First of all, I would like to pay my tribute to the former member of Parliament from New Zealand First Pita Paraone, who passed away recently. I had the chance to work with him for three years in Parliament, so I would like to start with paying tribute to him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI would like to touch upon some of the votes which are under governance and administration. It has got a very wide scope, particularly when we talk about internal affairs. There are seven Ministers responsible for this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EI would like to start with the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Act, the Act which was enacted in 2017 with the intention to bring the rural fire and the fire services together so that there could be substantial savings made in the future. But what we have seen is that the time line which was set, this Government has not been able to achieve and stay on that time line. Particularly, as we know, the funding for Fire and Emergency New Zealand is through the insurance levy, and the intention was that on 1 July 2019, the new levy regime would be enacted. But what we have seen is that the Minister of Internal Affairs has extended it by another four years, and it will continue to be running into surpluses. Every year, we will have almost $75 million in surplus and, afterwards, almost $600 million in surplus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EWe have been asking the Minister where that money will be invested, and the Minister mentioned in her presentation that it will be used for upgrading the assets of the rural fire services. But still, I think it is not justified that we keep on getting the surpluses and the levy payers\u2014particularly, New Zealanders\u2014keep on paying extra money without any plan from the Minister. We want to make sure that the money which is collected is well monitored by the department, and I hope that Minister will be taking care of those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EThe other area which I would like to touch upon is that the example has been given that the rural set-up will be upgraded with the earthquake. We saw that one of the stations to be newly built cost around more than $1.5 million and a similar kind of set-up in Australia costs about $500,000. So there is a huge gap. I know the Minister mentioned that she will look into this issue and then report back to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EAnother area which I would like to touch upon is gambling. We have seen that Skycity has teamed up with a company with a Mediterranean base to set up online gambling. The people of New Zealand can access those online gaming machines, and millions of dollars will be going offshore. We know that it is a big problem, and every Government has been focusing to reduce the harm from gambling. But this money, when it goes overseas, there is no benefit for the local community, whereas the money spent on the class 4 machines\u2014which normally are known as pokies\u2014is reinvested in the local communities. But this money will be going offshore, and it will be profit for those companies. That issue was raised with the Minister also. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003EAnother area which I would like to touch upon is the funding for the Language Line, which is very important to the migrant community because\u2014particularly with seniors\u2014sometimes they are not able to speak English very fluently, but with the help of Language Line, they are able to communicate with the different departments of the Government. But the funding for this is also a challenge, and I hope that the Minister, in the future, will get some money on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226dc89bbf-c2ef-45c9-89e4-d2b5952d8d16\u0022\u003ELastly, I would like to touch upon the racing industry, where the Minister for Racing mentioned that he will be putting up $1 million, which will be matched by the industry for the contestable fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00228fd46324e245487aa2285f26c230f299\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fd46324e245487aa2285f26c230f299\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to take a call in this Estimates debate. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the passing of Pita Paraone. My condolences to his family, and my thoughts and prayers. I know he was a man of strong faith. I actually stood against Pita in Hamilton East in the election in 2017, and he was a very honourable gentleman. My condolences go to New Zealand First, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re hearing from the Opposition a lot of hot air, but we\u2019re not really hearing a lot of plans. We\u2019re not hearing a vision of what they would do differently. They\u2019ve put out a few economic policies from the 1980s and they\u2019re saying, \u201CThat\u2019s our plan.\u201D But we have a Government with a plan and that plan is to tackle the long-term issues that are being faced in New Zealand, and we\u2019re getting on with the job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to explain some of the ways how we are tackling those long-term issues. We\u2019re taking a long-term view. We\u2019re looking 30 years ahead, not just three years ahead. One of the key ways we\u2019re doing that is around investment in rail\u2014investment in rail. We heard from the Minister of Finance. He said rail transport would connect the regions to the major cities\u2014connecting the regions and the cities. I was over in the UK recently, and we talked quite a bit about Brexit. One of the aspects of Brexit that concerned me was the rural/urban divide. We have a Government who are working hard to invest in our regions as well as in our cities, taking a balanced approach to all areas that we\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EOne of the key areas, as I said, is around rail. Now, we have an incredible rail network across this country, built by our fathers, grandfathers, forefathers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d205c5593b534654a458fe7f4c157627\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: And mothers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a03a19ef304a81b7b7c79cd6f2dd64\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and mothers over many, many years. That network has not been utilised as well as it could, but this Government is taking a different approach from what we\u2019ve seen previously. That approach is to invest in that network, both for heavy rail\u2014taking trucks off the road and reducing emissions\u2014but also for passenger rail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EOne example in the area where I reside is passenger rail between Hamilton and Auckland. People have been wanting this for years, and as a Government we are delivering on that. In the middle of next year, there\u2019ll be passenger rail between Hamilton and Auckland. Why isn\u2019t there passenger rail already\u2014why isn\u2019t there passenger rail already? Because there was no vision from the previous regime. But this Government has a plan and a vision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESome of the key aspects around that will be raising productivity. If you\u2019re sitting in a car, you go from Hamilton to Auckland, and as soon as you hit that Southern Motorway, you\u2019re sitting in a car, often for an hour or so, and there\u2019s a huge loss of productivity there. There\u2019s a huge loss of productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe Opposition are sharing all these ideas they\u2019re offering. Why didn\u2019t you do it in the past nine years? Why didn\u2019t the members do it in the past nine years? Because there was no vision. But we have a vision around rail, taking a balanced approach to transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to talk about another aspect which was raised, and that was the Provincial Growth Fund. So this is an investment within the Budget: the Provincial Growth Fund. Now, from the Opposition members, at times, we hear negative comments about the Provincial Growth Fund, and they say these negative comments in the House. But I\u2019ve been in the electorates with, particularly, some of these rural MPs, and they secretly love the Provincial Growth Fund. They love it. We know that they love it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223523ca99897e4617881d01df24ed2b2a\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: They love it because their constituents love it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228571f4da2e3443839f09ead77e73b48c\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: Their constituents love the Provincial Growth Fund. Their mayors love the Provincial Growth Fund. Their economic development agencies appreciate the Provincial Growth Fund. The reason they do is because after nine years of neglect in the regions, we\u2019re seeing investment back into the regions of New Zealand. We\u2019re seeing people come together. We\u2019re seeing groups come together to organise business cases, to plan, and to lift their heads up again and think about what could be possible in their region. We\u2019re seeing through this fund not just the money that\u2019s been invested but also, even before that, people coming together to plan, to develop business cases, and to actually look at what could be possible within their region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019ve got 30 seconds left. There\u2019s so much to talk about, but I might just finish on one more thing. As a former schoolteacher, I would like to briefly touch on the aspect of education. There was an investment within education from Vote Finance, and that\u2019s $1.2 billion for classrooms. Principals have been telling me for years that they need more classrooms, particularly in the high-growth areas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229242cff50261486faebbcb8974cac7f8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Nine years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e5cb1ad22b4cafbf7f27277c6af09a\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014nine years, actually\u2014and this Government are delivering in that area. Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022197602da936f47cdafd92134505128ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022197602da936f47cdafd92134505128ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Lawrence Yule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca69ce4d869e4f12aaa51e827a427404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca69ce4d869e4f12aaa51e827a427404\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, Mr Bayly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240a1071ce53e44c091590402630dd0ff\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you are just being difficult, aren\u2019t you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f8987cd3b446219a6cb2f010d9f0ae\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I know\u2014I know. I apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we are incredibly happy. The Hon\u2014he\u2019s not honourable, actually. Fletcher Tabuteau said we\u2019re sad. We\u2019re not sad; we\u2019re incredibly happy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EAs part of my contribution on the Estimates, I do wish to give a little bouquet out at the beginning of this contribution. My colleague from Hawke\u2019s Bay, the Hon Stuart Nash, is looking very stern this evening, but I would like to say that as part of the revenue budget, I do want to congratulate the Hon Stuart Nash for the changes to the tax system, which are substantial and they generally went through without a hitch. So he should be happy about that\u2014and that\u2019s the first smile I\u2019ve seen from him all evening. So it\u2019s nice to give out a bouquet at the beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EHowever, in this year of delivery, there are two things I want to talk about. One is the 2018 census and the Statistics New Zealand budget, and the other is the Ombudsman. The 2018 census can only be described as an unmitigated disaster, and even today in a select committee, on public record, we asked questions. We actually asked for an inquiry to be done. Of course, it was blocked by the other side, because they\u2019re not interested in openness and transparency. They showed us a report that\u2019d been done, which I read. There are probably more questions than answers in that report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe reason I want to talk about this in my contribution is because if you look at the Estimates summary, it says that there were some major lessons learnt\u2014they spent too much time and money on the online part of it\u2014but the bit that worries me the most is that we are now transferring $6 million from the 2023 census back into the 2018 census to try and fix up the mess. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThen, further on in the budget, the way of funding that is to discontinue surveys\u2014surveys that are important to New Zealand for New Zealand\u2019s transparency and understanding. So there is no longer going to be an accommodation survey. There is no longer going to be an energy use survey, a screen industry survey, or an internet provider survey. That\u2019s what Stats New Zealand have decided to do to save $4.5 million to fix up the mess and the $6 million they\u2019ve had to transfer from the 2023 census. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EWhen I stand back and look at this, this Government should simply have said, \u201CA lot of mistakes were made. We need to fund it. We need to fix it.\u201D Instead, what we\u2019re doing is compromising the future of those surveys and the future understanding of New Zealanders. I don\u2019t think anybody in the New Zealand public quite understands the significance of the census data. Today, we were also advised in select committee and on public record that the data for the household numbers will be released in September, and we were also told that that\u2019s likely to be enough to form electoral boundaries. So electoral boundaries will be formed on a census that 800,000 New Zealanders didn\u2019t complete, and a $120 million cost was involved. It\u2019s now $126 million because we\u2019re nicking money\u2014or \u201Cpinching\u201D is more a parliamentary term\u2014from 2023. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ENow, I just think this is outrageous. Here we have a Government in the year of delivery that has significantly under-invested, underutilised the services. A person has been held accountable and is leaving, but as of today I have no guarantee that the lessons have been properly learnt. We have wasted money, we\u2019ve wasted resource, and a once-in-five-year opportunity has been completely blundered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe other thing I wish to talk about this evening is around the Ombudsman. It\u2019s been mentioned by my colleague the Hon Jacqui Dean, and it\u2019s around the proactive release of Government material. So, in December 2018, the Government announced its intention to release details from Ministers\u2019 diaries on all meetings they attend. Then, it\u2019s actually that they want to be more proactive about providing the advice they receive. It now can take, as the Hon Jacqui Dean said, three months to get that material to be proactively released\u2014longer than you can get it under the Official Information Act. The Chief Ombudsman told us the objective is that the material be released on a weekly basis, once Ministers\u2019 offices understood how the new system works. How difficult can that be\u2014to release information you have in an electronic way? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022c608f1e588e447a2a44c3851ad1191c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c608f1e588e447a2a44c3851ad1191c7\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f23a96cbe3c48d3928682dd91c4b4aa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Go on, give him a go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5d4cb6f921f44c097fac3c0d6e2ee6c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Bayly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229603bd8740c34a90a0c015e7a4b6ad0f\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Madam Chair, you are so gracious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat was a very good speech from my colleague Lawrence Yule. I\u2019ve got to compliment him. I think I know why Mr Nash is smiling. I know why he\u2019s smiling, because he\u2019s overseeing this huge tax take, where this Government is going to take, what, about $80 billion this year, and in four years\u2019 time is going to be raking in $100 billion worth of tax every year. That\u2019s the Minister in charge of it, the Minister of Revenue. That\u2019s why he\u2019s smiling. It\u2019s nothing else. That\u2019s why he\u2019s smiling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI heard from the previous Labour speaker, Mr Jamie Strange. He said \u201CWhat\u2019s the plan? What\u2019s the plan?\u201D, and he looked at us. Well, actually, we know what the plan is. The plan for this Government is to tax more and spend more, and that\u2019s the issue. We know they\u2019re really good at taxing, because we know that they have introduced all these new taxes. I was looking at a list here, actually. It is extensive. Apart from cancelling our tax relief, there are three new fuel taxes, the regional fuel tax, extending the brightline test, ring-fencing losses, Amazon tax, GST on mobile roaming, WorkSafe levy increases, tourist tax, car taxes\u2014all these taxes\u2014and that is why that revenue is growing so dramatically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut I think the reason why everyone on that Government side looks across at us and they claim that we\u2019re black and we\u2019re talking down the economy\u2014well, the fact is that this is a squandered opportunity. This Government is actually squandering a huge opportunity, because, as we know, when they came into power a short 20 months ago, we had an economy that was actually motoring along. We had an economy that was growing strongly, at just under 4 percent\u2014in fact, their stats were 3.3 percent every year for the last three years of our office. Now, it\u2019s down closer to 2 percent, and what that means is that for every year, we\u2019ve lost, roughly, about $5 billion of activity, if you say that we\u2019ve lost nearly 2 percent, and it means that the Government\u2019s lost nearly $2 billion of tax revenue. That is because the business community, the people that go out there and be entrepreneurial and hire people, are worried about what\u2019s going on, and that is the issue that we\u2019ve got going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI hear this thing about the headwinds, about the world economy and all that sort of stuff. It\u2019s not true\u2014it\u2019s not true. If you look at the exports from New Zealand, they have grown month on month, right up to the last month that was reported\u2014last month. There has actually been no impact on the exports from New Zealand, and that\u2019s on the back of fantastic terms of trade. We\u2019ve got a lower dollar; we\u2019ve got all the things going right for us. This is not what is affecting the New Zealand economy. It may do in the future, but at the moment, our exporters are rocking. They are sending more goods overseas at higher prices, and that\u2019s why our export receipts to this country have gone up month on month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe real issue about what\u2019s going on is nothing to do with exports. It\u2019s about what\u2019s happening locally, and that is just where people are worried about what\u2019s happening with this Government. I was actually in a meeting with some business people the other day. One owned a machinery hire and tool hire business; the other one was a concrete-cutting machinery business. Both were local businesses with no export potential\u2014don\u2019t even talk about export. No foreign exchange exposure\u2014nothing like that. All they were exposed to was what was happening in New Zealand, and they were just so angry at what\u2019s going on with their businesses. They employed people, and they were all talking about the avalanche of changes that are having an adverse impact on their businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThey were talking about how their wage bills have gone up so dramatically. We all understand the need to raise the minimum wage, but the cascade going up through those businesses immediately meant that they were having their profits, if they were in that situation\u2014but certainly driving them towards a loss situation. They were worried about the working conditions. They were worried about just the lack of activity, of people coming into their business. That is the loss of confidence that we\u2019re seeing in this economy, and that is through poor governance. That poor governance is through poor Government, and that is the disappointing, squandered opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022c00084928f564d9ca7d50be7d5df9d06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c00084928f564d9ca7d50be7d5df9d06\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. What a confused speech\u2014we had a man who used to be the Opposition spokesperson for revenue talk about the fact that there\u2019s this massive tax take, and yet the economy isn\u2019t doing well. When you get more taxes because the economy is actually booming, it is doing very well, Mr Bayly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe issue that is being faced is the fact that there\u2019s record low unemployment, record high wages, and wages are growing, but there are a lot of long-term challenges that this Government is not afraid to tackle. We\u2019re going really hard on them, we\u2019re trying to grow productivity, and you know what? It\u2019s the ideal situation: interest rates are low, full employment\u2014now is the time when companies are investing. The thing about New Zealanders\u2014and I hear this wherever I go\u2014is they know that we can\u2019t solve all the problems overnight. They know that it\u2019s going to take time, but the thing that they respect about this Government and this Prime Minister in Jacinda Ardern is\u2014you know what? We\u2019re taking on the hard challenges and we\u2019re winning. We\u2019re making a difference\u2014we\u2019re making a difference. Wages are up, unemployment\u2019s down, and the economy is doing really, really well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet me talk just a little bit about what\u2019s happening in the revenue area. It is a time of change. What we have done as a Government is we have said it\u2019s about fairness. We want multinationals to pay their fair share, and that\u2019s what we are doing. So what we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve passed legislation around base erosion and profit shifting. In common English, that is multinationals with a presence here, they are now paying their fair share. We have gone out and consulted on a digital services tax. This is, again, about multinationals paying their fair share. We are working with the OECD to come up with a solution, because it is not right that New Zealanders are working incredibly hard and paying their fair share, and multinationals do not\u2014multinationals do not. This is a challenge that we are working incredibly hard on with the international community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWhat we are also doing is we are putting GST on low-value goods, because what, again, has happened for far too long is Kiwis that own retail outlets on the main streets of New Zealand towns and cities are paying GST, yet the way retail is going globally is that people are buying stuff offshore, and if it\u2019s below $400 they\u2019re not paying any GST. We just do not think it is fair that overseas companies get an immediate 15 percent advantage. We are levelling the playing field and making it fair for those who are running a small business, running a retail business, in this country. That is about fairness in the tax system. It\u2019s coming in on 1 December, and I think it\u2019s a fantastic initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are some other things we are doing: release three of Business Transformation. Now, Business Transformation is the largest project in the State sector. It is being run incredibly well by one of, I think, the most competent State sector CEOs in Naomi Ferguson. She is doing an absolutely magnificent job. What release three did was it bought income tax in. There\u2019s well over a million Kiwis that have automatically into their account got paid, on average, about $400. We have returned over $570 million of tax owed by Kiwis to their bank accounts. There have been some Kiwis that, I admit, have had to pay more money, but this is, again, about using the tax system to drive fairness\u2014to drive fairness\u2014which is what the tax system should be about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another two tranches to come in Business Transformation. It\u2019s a $1.8 billion project, and the level of governance and the level of oversight is fantastic. In fact, about every six months, there\u2019s a KPMG team that come over from the UK. These are world-leading experts in managing and reviewing systems of this size\u2014global systems\u2014and they have said to myself and Minister Robertson that this is one of the best-run projects in the world. So I take my hat off to Naomi Ferguson. I take my hat off to her staff, they are doing an absolutely fantastic job. I take my hat off to the IRD staff who are working with the OECD to find a solution to digital services taxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut the last thing I will say is that in the revenue area there are a number of challenges\u2014there\u2019s no doubt about that. There are a number of challenges and they are difficult challenges, because we want to balance things up. We want to make it fair, but we are facing those challenges head on. We\u2019re working incredibly hard to make sure that the tax system works for all New Zealanders. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229f15f66a6ed14ac885f18e83729b520b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Audit, Vote Communications Security and Intelligence, Vote Finance, Vote Internal Affairs, Vote Office of the Clerk, Vote Ombudsmen, Vote Parliamentary Service, Vote Prime Minister and Cabinet, Vote Revenue, Vote Security Intelligence, Vote State Services, and Vote Statistics be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVotes agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c29f48df3baf4daca3f5c5eaac7167ce\u0022\u003EHealth Sector \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d958db4ec156492996d80e9792b0560e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d958db4ec156492996d80e9792b0560e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the vote in the health sector volume\u2014B.5, Volume 6. The question is that Vote Health stand part of the Schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7a65c501bdf49e0948a28a2f3d9cd6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7a65c501bdf49e0948a28a2f3d9cd6d\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Chairperson of the Health Committee):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. It is my absolute pleasure to speak on this Estimates debate about Vote Health, as the chair of the Health Committee. I want to acknowledge the Minister who\u2019s in the chair beside you, the Hon David Clark, for running an organisation that, actually, has been challenged, and those challenges stem from underfunding over the last nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI say that because in our report we actually talk about the DHBs and their financial stability. As we know, many of the district health boards have to deal with these legacy issues and we need look no further than Counties Manukau District Health Board. I highlight that because you can\u2019t actually deliver services if three or four of the buildings that are supposed to provide the context for us to care for New Zealanders are rotting, are leaking, had sewage, had air quality problems. That\u2019s been highlighted by the Nurses Organisation and other health workforce organisations who are worried about their staff working in these conditions. I highlight that because the cost to ensure those facilities are sufficient and adequate for the health system to deliver to the health needs of New Zealanders has been severely compromised. The response from the Minister and from this Government was to invest an additional $850 million in the last financial year for capital investments in DHBs. This hasn\u2019t been done randomly, because one of the other things the Minister did was develop a new infrastructure unit to support DHBs. We knew that we had to be more strategic in this area, but the reality of hearing from our DHBs is many of them had no option, under the last Government, to highlight some of these issues because they knew they would get nothing. This Government has been incredibly responsive, and increased funding in areas which we think are incredibly important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo in addition to more capital investment money we\u2019ve also provided another $143.448 million to ensure that our staff who are working in our health sector are remunerated. That\u2019s a big deal for us, because in addition to the infrastructure, the other most important component of delivering a health service is having a quality health workforce who is valued and knows that they, through their efforts, are contributing to a great Government plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EAnd then the third area that I want to highlight is our mental health initiatives. Many of you came into the Grand Hall tonight, and I want to thank colleagues who chose to do that. It was actually an acknowledgment of the prioritisation of mental health and addiction wellbeing that this Government did in having an inquiry that ensured that over 2,000 New Zealanders, who in 26 locations across Aotearoa New Zealand attended 400 meetings, were part of a conversation about our mental health wellbeing, and also how addiction contributes to our mental health wellbeing. So the Government have, through that process and the leadership of Professor Paterson, provided for the Government He Ara Oranga. Within that document there were 40 recommendations; the Government accepted 38 of those. So we have a commitment\u2014a $1.384 billion commitment over four years\u2014to ensure that we operationalise that plan. That plan isn\u2019t our plan; that plan is actually New Zealand\u2019s plan. One of the great things that we heard tonight was that for us to achieve the objectives of that plan, we actually have to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EPart of the, I guess, challenge we have\u2014and especially in that mental health and addictions area\u2014is that we don\u2019t have enough staff who have the skills to meet the needs of those mental health and addiction challenges. The Minister has been incredibly transparent and has said that we need 1,600 additional staff; 25 percent will come from the existing workforce. So, I guess, this is a mihi to the people who work within our current health sector: our nurses, our occupational therapists, our social workers, and our community workers, who we think can contribute in another way. So I look forward to us working with the sector to ensure that we have the capacity to meet those mental health and addiction challenges going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI haven\u2019t got much more time, but I do have to talk about some of the petitions that came before our committee this year, and specifically those related to the availability of pharmaceuticals. I do want to acknowledge the petitioners; the Terre Maize petition, in particular, was one where we had incredible engagement from people who were most affected by a lack of access to advanced breast cancer drugs\u2014and so I pay tribute to them. I pay tribute to them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4159c24837641f1b12f245b8a4cc9df\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Pay tribute? Give them money. Give Pharmac more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220549453f79ae4bb682fb69138e38d683\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for putting the petition to the committee. I pay tribute to them for coming to talk to us. My colleague Michael Woodhouse is making some comments, but the reality of our Health Committee report is that we said this Parliament should not determine what drugs should be funded. We were clear about that. That\u2019s a political process; we have a process in place, where an independent entity does that. But, in saying that, I do want to highlight that we have issues about access to these new technology, new treatment drugs, and we will address that. I want to acknowledge the Minister and the ministry and Pharmac who have committed to addressing that issue going forward. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022865d6c2372a84f3d9a59af42cc086382\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022865d6c2372a84f3d9a59af42cc086382\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Hon Michael Woodhouse, can I just apologise to the House for not setting the timer. So the Opposition are 45 seconds ahead, but I took a minute off Jan Logie prior to dinner, so I think we\u2019re about quits. The Hon Michael Woodhouse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae808bd5b5f4744ad03441dfe75ba93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae808bd5b5f4744ad03441dfe75ba93\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I must say I do commend the chair of the Health Committee, Louisa Wall, on her loyalty to her Government. Her rhetoric was just as far from the reality of what\u2019s going on in our health sector as the Minister Dr David Clark\u2019s is, and the Government\u2019s, who pretend that they are fixing nine years of neglect. Frankly, this Budget shows more than ever that they are overseeing chaos and drift and an absolute crisis point emerging in our health sector. I want to deconstruct some of the things that the Minister told us in select committee, in Estimates review, and I will also focus very much not so much on what is in the Budget but, actually, what\u2019s not in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s not in the Budget is what the Minister said he would do in reversing what he claimed was an $8 billion underfunding under National. Now, I want to deconstruct the so-called $8 billion myth. The Government, in Opposition, put together a manifesto that had a fiscal plan that said that they would invest $7.925 billion over the next four years, and somehow the perception was that that would be $7.925 billion more than a National Government would. Well, that\u2019s not true, that\u2019s not accurate, and it was presumptive on National putting no more money at all into health over that four-year period. Indeed, if you take the spending increase track at 2017 of 4.1 percent and just round it down to 4 percent, there would have been $9 billion more put in by a National Government, more than this Government is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAnd the evidence is plain to see in the haemorrhaging financial positions of DHBs. I said, in January, that they would get to $500 million in deficit, and the Minister pooh-poohed it. In April, when we saw that it was going to go to $390 million, I said that was too low and it was going to go to at least $500 million. It\u2019s now being projected at $508 million, and that is conservative. So let me make a prediction about where the actual deficits are going to end up in the 2018-19 year, because this very much influences the Estimates for the next Budget year that we\u2019re talking about: it\u2019ll be a billion dollars. The Minister knows it\u2019s going to be a billion dollars, because there\u2019s another one-off hit of about $500 million to $600 million for the DHBs\u2019 failure to comply with the Holidays Act; a Holidays Act that when I was the chief executive of a surgical hospital was being passed by the Clark Government, and I submitted in committee and I said it was going to be a complete muddle. I hate being right about these things. The reality is the union movement has spent years saying that it was errant employers, lazy employers, lazy Australian-based payroll software providers that were the cause of the problems of employees not getting their entitlements under the Holidays Act. And then what happened? The police happened to have a $33 million underspend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister is going to blame me, actually, as Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety. I can tell the House that at the time I was that and Minister of Police, the committee of State sector Ministers on employment relations asked the Director-General of Health to go and explore, with the DHBs, what their situation was, because as a 24/7 operation with lots of evening and weekend allowances, the Holidays Act can be quite complicated. They came back and told that committee of Ministers that there was no problem. So we sent them away and we said, \u201CLook harder.\u201D It was after we got taken out of office that the real situation emerged. Now, I\u2019m not going to blame the Minister for that. It\u2019s actually not the Government\u2019s fault. The Government can only act on the information that it is provided with. But I refuse to accept what Dr Clark will inevitably come out with and say: that it was the previous Government\u2019s fault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ba9351560374b0e8b5d4675ad7938fc\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: It was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4489c976eda427ea9102f0452300ee3\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It absolutely wasn\u2019t. I will table, if the member wishes, the letter from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions saying there was no problem with the Act, imploring the previous Minister not to change the Act. The moment that the Government gets into office, Iain Lees-Galloway is saying he\u2019s going to have a review. It is a problem, and it\u2019s a problem for hospitals but it is not a problem of the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat is a problem is the fact that that Minister talked a good game in Opposition. He said, in May 2017, when the previous Government put in $459 million for DHB cost pressures, that it was far too small; it was $650 million that was needed just to keep the lights on, two years ago. Yet in this Budget, we are exploring why, two years later, he only put in $549 million. Why is it that two years later, he\u2019s put nearly $100 million less than he said was necessary in order to just keep the lights on in 2017? And we wonder why DHBs are haemorrhaging money. It\u2019s that reason, it\u2019s talking a good game in Opposition but not delivering, and it\u2019s also allowing DHBs to settle pay increases at 8 percent and 9 percent per annum, and then not giving the DHBs the money to pay for it. It\u2019s simple arithmetic that when 75 percent of the cost base of the DHBs is people and pay goes up by 8 percent to 9 percent and then there\u2019s a 4 percent increase in the vote, deficits will occur\u2014and 19 of 20 DHBs are going to be in deficit, if not 20.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the chair of the committee has rightly pointed out a quite significant increase in the appropriation for mental health, as part of the Wellbeing Budget, and I certainly don\u2019t begrudge that. But what I would ask is this: how can we say that this is a wellbeing Budget when, in order to pay for those mental health appropriations, the rest of the health tin was raided? It was raided in pharmaceuticals, and Louisa Wall says, \u201CWell, you know, we\u2019ve heard a lot of petitions for cancer drugs, and we\u2019re listening, and it\u2019s not for the Government to interfere with drug-buying decisions.\u201D Couldn\u2019t agree more. What the Government can do is give Pharmac more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister came to us he was quite proud of the fact that in the 2018 Budget not a single dollar of extra money was put into Pharmac. He talked about 331,000 New Zealanders who had benefited from the drug-purchasing decisions that Pharmac had made despite getting no money. Well, that 331,000 was a result of the 2017 Budget, Minister, not the 2018 Budget, and this penny-pinching Minister who needed to pay for mental health somehow raided the tin for Pharmac and they\u2019ve had $10 million in the last two years\u20140.5 percent per annum. That\u2019s only one-fifth of the average annual increase of the previous Government. And he says we\u2019re to blame because drugs can\u2019t be purchased, because people have to go to Australia, because Givealittle pages have to be set up. It\u2019s a nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut the real scandal of this Budget is the failure to address the growing crisis in maternity services. And independent midwives are leaving the sector in their droves. And I say to the Minister and I say to this committee that there will be a lot more said about this over the next 10 days as the crisis in maternity comes to fruition. The Minister had got a report in February 2018 that said that independent midwives were worth much, much more than they were getting. He buried the report and he threw them crumbs in the 2018 Budget, and in this Budget he threw them nothing\u2014nothing but hot air and a promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ec49a1b1dc4ab6baebf5adc9a3c3dd\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re used to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf2e3af91b334742a98533d4b52d7685\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: And maternity wards\u2014what they were used to, Mr McAnulty, was being listened to, which was why we set the mediation process up in the first place. They went to the High Court. They had that right. We listened. We waited for the report and by the time it came we were out of office. This Minister is the one with the cloth ears, I must say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got the cancer plan. Where on earth is the cancer plan? This is fundamental to the Wellbeing Budget and we\u2019re still waiting. But it\u2019s not going to be a plan; it\u2019s going to be an interim plan. What we got\u2014because the National Party made very sensible and strong announcements at its national conference\u2014was a scrambled stand-up at Wellington hospital where the Minister announced linear accelerator purchases that were already on the list. So I\u2019d heard the Minister say, \u201COh, well, they promise a lot, particularly in roading.\u201D In fact the Government says this, but there\u2019s no budget. I asked the Minister, \u201CWhere is the capital budget here for the linear accelerators that were announced for the Hawke\u2019s Bay, Northland, and Taranaki?\u201D And you know what the answer is\u2014none. There isn\u2019t a single dollar of capital budget for the scrambled announcement that he and the Prime Minister made just so they looked like they were doing something in health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe know what they are doing in health. They\u2019re doing this and they\u2019re doing that [Covers ears and eyes] because there is a crisis emerging and their Minister doesn\u2019t want to know about it because he doesn\u2019t know what to do about it. Well, it\u2019s pretty easy what he has to do. He has to set expectations for performance. Targets were removed. He has to fund things like Pharmac and midwifery and the GPs broken promise and the many other things that he said he would do but has gone silent on. And then he\u2019s got to hold the sector to account. And he has to lead, because there\u2019s no leadership in the sector now. All we\u2019ve got is a sea of red ink and some very angry people. The most benign industrial relations environment in the health sector was in the years 2009 to 2017. We\u2019ve now had more industrial action in the last 18 months than in generations and that cannot be sheeted home at anybody else but the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa7dc5fd0cc947a18767be4f83b2f3d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa7dc5fd0cc947a18767be4f83b2f3d1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E That is the longest, most tortured apology I have heard from that member in quite some time. Honestly, a member who talked at the beginning about the $8 billion promise that the Labour Opposition made to put $8 billion more into healthcare in the first four years. We are well on the road to delivering that as a coalition Government. We\u2019ve already put over $6 billion in in our first two Budgets in that forecast period as relevantly measured. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat member, of course, neglected to focus too much upon the nine years of neglect, the underfunding\u2014the long-term underfunding\u2014that has left us in the position we\u2019re in where the health system has been scrambling to fund services to make sure that it could deal with the level of need in our communities, because our buildings have been run down. We\u2019ve had rot, mould, and sewage in our buildings as a consequence of their Government\u2019s failure to invest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIn the Budget we\u2019re talking about here, more money was put in to health capital in the most recent Budget than that previous Government put in in the whole nine years they were in office. In one Budget we\u2019ve put more money into health capital than they put in in nine years, because we are serious about rebuilding our health system after nine years of neglect. We\u2019re determined to tackle the long-term challenges that have been left to us that we\u2019ve inherited, Madam Chair\u2014Mr Chair\u2014the person next to me keeps changing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe have funded a number of things. We\u2019ve funded cheaper doctors visits. We\u2019ve made sure that it\u2019s cheaper for 600,000 New Zealanders to go to the doctor. We have started funding the fixing of our rundown hospitals but, of course, more investment will be needed because they have been neglected for so long. We\u2019ve funded modern radiation machines. Mr Woodhouse, I don\u2019t know where he was when the announcement was made about those radiation machines. He was saying no capital had been put aside. That was the whole point: capital was being put aside to make sure that we funded for the next 12 replacements\u2014modern radiation machines to make sure that New Zealanders can get cancer care closer to home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe better funded our ambulance services. We\u2019re paying family carers what they deserve. We\u2019ve funded Pharmac better, and, again, Mr Woodhouse completely misunderstanding Budget 2018 where $13.5 million of new money was put into Pharmac. He keeps repeating that error. I do not know what he doesn\u2019t understand there and, of course, we got more value for more New Zealanders because a whole lot of money at the same time was transferred across from the DHB management into the Pharmac management where we know the Pharmac model purchases more drugs. So we are getting on and providing more health services for more New Zealanders. But no one pretends that we can fix nine years of neglect in just two Budgets. It will take ongoing investment but we are doing some serious investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe are taking mental health seriously. We have put $1.9 billion in this Budget\u2014$1.9 billion; the biggest-ever investment in mental health\u2014into mental health because we think that we need to take mental health seriously. It\u2019s something that has not been done before. It makes economic sense. It\u2019s the right thing to do and we know that one-in-five New Zealanders in any given year could be wrestling with a mental health or addiction challenge. So we\u2019re going to make that investment. In fact, we\u2019ve already made good investments in that area. Nurses in schools\u2014we\u2019ve funded the Piki programme in the Greater Wellington and Wairarapa area\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d91da1a9ff904fefae6c27cf5023fc04\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4c1739b22754f8f934707f6e0b92847\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I want to thank the Green Party for their support and Mr McAnulty for his verbal support, especially, of that good programme in the area that he represents. Also I want to think about the investments that we\u2019ve put into those community services card cheaper doctors visits, which, of course, are a way into mental health services for many people. Two hundred million dollars in capital we\u2019ve put aside for building our mental health and addiction facilities for making sure that they are coming up to scratch again because many of them are no longer the ideal place to look after people who have mental health or addiction needs. And of course we\u2019ve put significant money into the mental health ring-fence to support our specialists, additional programmes for vulnerable mothers, and money going into detox services in Auckland, and so on. The investments keep coming. We\u2019re very focused on making sure that we support that health system after those nine years of neglect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we\u2019re building a new front-line service, and I think in the closing seconds I just want to say how important that is, to make sure that people with mild to moderate mental health needs can access services in primary care. That\u2019s one of the big investments in the Budget; nearly half a billion dollars going into that. That will take time to set up and to deliver, but we\u2019re determined to do just that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00222bd327527eca4936ab23e45604478575\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bd327527eca4936ab23e45604478575\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to the Estimates, and I particularly want to speak to the Estimates figures around health information technology: the $5.2 million in the national health information systems and the $49.3 million in health sector information systems. I want to start by premising this on the major projects list which are failing, particularly those that are failing in health, those that are high risk and are likely to fail: the National Bowel Screening Programme roll-out, bowel cancer screening IT, the national infrastructure platform, and the national electronic health record. And it\u2019s the last that I particularly want to kick off with to start\u2014the national electronic health record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EWhere is this? Where is this in the Estimates, when the Minister, this time last year, 13 June 2018, at a conference, said, \u201CThe ministry\u2019s new digital health strategy should be published in coming months. A new identity management and integration service is being defined, which will act as building blocks towards the creation of a national electronic health record.\u201D Not a word\u2014not a word for a year about the national electronic health record. Maybe there\u2019s a reason for that; maybe it\u2019s because the Minister has done the indicative business case at an eye-watering figure\u2014absolutely eye watering? You would never guess, or could never guess, how much the Minister and his ministry have spent just for the indicative business case of the electronic health record. Remember, that\u2019s not the detailed business case but the indicative business case\u2014$3.4 million just for the indicative business case of the electronic health record, which is now a project that is defined as at high risk. We also know from inside industry players that they\u2019re very concerned that Accenture and MartinJenkins seem to have taken all that money, all that work, and we\u2019re just not seeing any evidence of it being delivered. So I wanted to plant the electronic health record at the Minister\u2019s feet as \u201CWhere is this? Where does it sit in the Estimates? Why is it a high-risk project?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI then want to move to the National Oracle Solution, which the Minister spoke to in oral questions today, and which the Prime Minister spoke to last week. Just to remind everyone of the National Oracle Solution: in 2017\u2014so the project had been under way for about five to seven years\u2014the incoming Government, under David Clark\u2019s hands, December 2017, there or thereabouts, decided they\u2019d look at the National Oracle Solution and, surprise, surprise, ordered a review. They ordered a review from Deloitte\u2014but, hang on, didn\u2019t Deloitte design the National Oracle Solution? Oh, yes, they did. Hadn\u2019t Deloitte, through Asparona, their subsidiary company, actually done a lot of contractual work on the National Oracle Solution? Yes, they had. How could this be an independent review when the people who were setting the exams were also the people sitting the exams? They were marking their own exam work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo we pointed this out to the Minister, including the fact that Deloitte said they didn\u2019t want made public their conflict of interest\u2014thank you to the Official Information Act\u2014and reluctantly the Minister sent it to Audit New Zealand. Audit New Zealand came back with a damning report of his handling of the National Oracle Solution and particularly the commissioning of Deloitte to do that. I won\u2019t read that, because I want to move on to what that report showed. Then what happened was the Minister parked the National Oracle Solution around about April last year. He realised he\u2019d got it wrong. He let the four Wave 1 DHBs continue\u2014Waikato, Canterbury, Bay of Plenty, and West Coast\u2014and he parked it. And he did nothing until about 10 days ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, over this whole year, those parked DHBs have written off impairments in the sums of millions of dollars, and, furthermore, the systems that were failing were the systems at Auckland, Northland, Counties Manukau, Waitemat\u0101, Taranaki, and Southern DHB. Their versions of Oracle expired, and their software and hardware was no longer compatible with the Oracle platform\u2014over this year, while the Minister was parking the National Oracle Solution. What do you think that\u2019s done for security, running software versions on platforms that are no longer supported? Is it a surprise that we\u2019re seeing cyber-security issues with this Government when you have a Minister who doesn\u2019t think forward? What happens if you park a health information technology project and the software licences run out and no longer meet the hardware requirements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a further damnation of what the Minister is doing with health information technology. And then we hear today, \u201CDon\u2019t worry; it\u2019s moved to the FPIM.\u201D The Minister needs to tell the whole story. There are 10 DHBs that the Health Finance, Procurement and Information Management System (FPIM), which is the new name for the National Oracle Solution\u2014there are 10 DHBs that now have no procurement basis. It has been wiped by the Minister. He did not say that in oral questions today, nor did the Prime Minister last week. Let\u2019s hear this whole story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0b7dbced4754eeb96d55d58b4822083\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0b7dbced4754eeb96d55d58b4822083\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that\u2019s rebuilding our health system, because, as we\u2019ve heard tonight, after nine long years of underfunding, the health system we inherited was in a terrible state. What I want to start talking about tonight, just to begin with, is malnutrition, because I think the closest parallel I can think of to the health system we inherited is somebody that\u2019s been facing chronic undernutrition over a very long period of time. What happens when somebody is facing that situation is that their fat reserves get burnt up first. And once they\u2019re completely depleted, then the body starts to burn up muscle and, basically, a lot of those key functions start to drop off. And one of the most important ones that start to get impaired is the immune system and the ability to react to the challenges that get thrown at the body. So a lot of children with chronic malnutrition end up getting really bad infections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EJust looking at what\u2019s been happening with our health system after nine long years of underfunding, pretty much all those fat reserves are completely gone; they went ages ago. But what\u2019s happened is that the system we inherited had started to burn up its muscle and it, basically, couldn\u2019t respond to the challenges that were thrown its way. So, when we inherited that system, we inherited a whole range of DHBs that were in deficit, but then, over the next year or so, as we had a bit of population increase and as the population was increasingly ageing, a lot more of those DHBs have come into deficit. Basically, those are the fundamentals of that under-investment and the impact that that\u2019s having on our system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other thing that DHBs, in their annual reviews, were talking to us about was just the huge acute load in terms of what was coming in through A \u0026amp; E\u2014just things like need for acute surgery but also a whole lot of ambulatory-sensitive hospital admissions. Those are those conditions where you could actually prevent a hospital admission if you had early access to primary care, because, again, the previous Government hadn\u2019t been investing in the primary care system and so we were getting this problem where increasingly primary care was becoming unaffordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other thing that was happening was that a lot of DHBs, to balance their books, were putting off just basic maintenance and capital investment. So, in the system we inherited, in about 19 percent of DHBs, their assets were in \u201Cpoor\u201D or \u201Cvery poor\u201D condition. So we inherited a system where we were having hospitals that were having leaking, mould, raw sewage leaking through the walls of some of our major hospitals\u2014things in an incredible state. And so the system we\u2019ve inherited has meant that our health system hasn\u2019t been able to respond to some of the challenges that have been thrown at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re doing now is starting to rebuild that system, and I think there are a number of things that we\u2019ve been doing. The first of them sounds really boring but is actually crucially, crucially important, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing: putting $2.9 billion over the next five years into our DHBs just so they can keep up with that population growth and with those cost pressures. That\u2019s something that hadn\u2019t been happening over time, and it\u2019s crucially important. But the other thing we\u2019re doing is investing significantly back into our health infrastructure\u2014so $1.7 billion into our hospitals and facilities over the next two years, and that\u2019s on top of the $750 million that we put in in Budget 2018. Some of that will be going to repairing some of those hospitals like Middlemore, which has been facing all those difficulties. But we\u2019re also putting some of that money into rebuilding and building mental health facilities so that people can access the services they need in proper, modern buildings. Some of the other things we\u2019re going to be doing in that space are just, basically, investing in that key infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EThe other thing we\u2019ve done\u2014and it was a big priority in Budget 2019\u2014is take mental health seriously, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re putting $1.9 billion into our mental health services. As a number of us have talked about, some of that is going to go into front-line services in primary care so that people can come into their GP clinic and they can say, \u201CLook, I\u2019ve got these issues.\u201D and be able to be introduced to a mental health worker who can actually sit down and talk to them and work out what it is they need. And sometimes that mental health worker will just be able to see them for a couple of sessions, and that\u2019ll be all that they do need, but sometimes they will need to be referred off to services. We\u2019re also investing extra resources so those at risk of suicide can have the wraparound services that they need, and we\u2019re also investing extra money into telephone-based counselling and internet support services as well so that people can access those services when and where they need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a huge amount of infrastructure investment. There\u2019s a huge amount of funding into our mental health services and then also just keeping up with cost pressures. So I\u2019m proud to be part of that Government that\u2019s rebuilding our health system after nine years of underfunding. We\u2019re actually giving the system what it needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60c018e1c294e069c13a871adeabe90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60c018e1c294e069c13a871adeabe90\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. A very good choice! Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re here tonight to debate the Estimates hearing at the Health Committee. We had the Hon Dr David Clark as the responsible Minister there to answer questions around the announcements for health, and I was asking questions specifically on the announcements around mental health. As we\u2019ve heard tonight from many in the Government, parroting the amount of money that has been apparently announced, the problem is that\u2014well, it is the problem with Labour Governments. I mean, first they tell you, when they\u2019re in Opposition, around any issue, \u201CAll you need to do is get us in Government and we\u2019ll fix it.\u201D The problem is that, when they finally roll round to Government, they don\u2019t have a plan. It\u2019s not as simple as just getting into Government; you\u2019ve got to have the plan. And it\u2019s not as simple as just throwing money at it. I\u2019ll give you a reason why: the State of the Nation Report in the last year of the former Labour Government said that, for all their increased expenditure, social progress had not improved 1 percent. What a damning statement by the Salvation Army, and this is what we are facing now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe health Minister said he had an aspiration that every person in New Zealand who wanted to access a mental health service could in five years\u2019 time. Well, we know how much that is, because it came back from the inquiry that the level of need we needed to focus on was 20 percent. Currently, we spend $1.5 billion on providing access to 3.7 percent of the population. So the question is: if we are going to meet the Minister\u2019s own aspirational target, what do we need to do to increase that figure from 3.7 percent to 20 percent? The problem is that, when you ask the Minister and you ask this Government, we don\u2019t get an answer. Where is the plan? Where is the modelling that will roll this out\u2014all these programmes\u2014and hit the 20 percent mark? Because that\u2019s what we are here to do in Opposition: hold the Government to account and interrogate the policies and the announcements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo we have a lot of money promised but, in fact, what we heard is that they\u2019re actually going out on a roadshow to ask the public how they want the money spent in mental health. You\u2019ve had a $6.5 million inquiry that kicked the can down the road. We had delayed report-backs on the inquiry reports, and now, in 2019, around April, we get a funding announcement. Well, the biggest plank in that funding announcement is a mild to moderate front-level service that\u2019s going to be operational in five years\u2019 time. Do you know when that service first started? In July 2017. So why have we waited two years for this new big silver bullet front-line service to be resourced when it was operational in July? And that\u2019s the problem; we had $100 million earmarked for social investment mental health initiatives. One good example was putting mental health professionals alongside emergency responders. The police and St John were outraged when they heard that had been cut when this Government came in. And that\u2019s a problem: they came in, they cut programmes, and then we wait two years\u2014and then New Zealanders are told, \u201CWell, it\u2019s a great big amount of money, but in fact it won\u2019t be operational for another five years.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EPart of the problem is that you can\u2019t just announce money; you\u2019ve got to have done the work in Opposition. Funnily enough, this Government talks about nine years of neglect\u2014well, they\u2019re very close to potentially causing more neglect in 18 months. And here we have 18 months in and no plan. Where is the plan for the service? Where is the plan for the workforce? At the moment, you\u2019ve got front-line services like GP clinics being told, \u201CWell, they\u2019re going to get funding for this new front-line service.\u201D Ask one GP what funding stream that will come from\u2014what will be the funding system. They don\u2019t know, because this Government, in Budget 2019, announced a lot of money in mental health but actually has no plan. And now they\u2019re out there asking New Zealanders in a roadshow. After a $6.5 million inquiry that went round and had 500 meetings and talked to thousands of New Zealanders, we\u2019re now having a roadshow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u002293a346d36f5f471baf6d4345e1214c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a346d36f5f471baf6d4345e1214c1c\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It has been an interesting evening, listening to what\u2019s going on in terms of the different interpretations. I echo the sentiments very eloquently expressed by my colleague Michael Woodhouse and also Dr Shane Reti and, latterly, Matt Doocey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere is chaos in the health sector. There are things that remain unfunded. The strikes, the disunity, the sense of dissatisfaction I wasn\u2019t really aware of until I came into the Health Committee, which I did in May. Since that time I have never seen so many petitions around Pharmac and what it needs to do better\u2014the $200 million smoke and mirrors which was given back by Pharmac instead of reinvested in medicines to extend and save people\u2019s lives. What\u2019s going on with the moral compass here? Pharmac needs to be thoroughly investigated. There are far too many things that are not being done properly. The Metavivors, the cancer drugs\u2014these are the sorts of things that really matter and really count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe particular areas I\u2019m interested in and follow specifically are around dementia and elder abuse and surgical mesh. These are all things I asked the Minister about at the Estimates hearing and I was underwhelmed by the responses\u2014the surgical mesh, for example; that is one of the ones I feel most keenly\u2014because, when in Opposition, they were lions. There were extravagant promises about acting urgently, setting up a register, sorting out the surgical procedures, getting people trained up so that they could remove the mesh that is causing such misery. It hasn\u2019t happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo how much of \u201Curgent\u201D takes two years to even begin to start consulting? It\u2019s not a working group. What do you call it when you go around asking people what you already know to continually repeat their stories? It is a waste of time, basically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d191d6f69cf4761ac1b739b5b95b10f\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Stalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb3aaa9372146398717255fd510644c\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Stalling. That would be a good way to describe it. A stalling consultation exercise, which is a sop to public opinion and does nothing to actually further the cause of the women and the men\u2014because surgical mesh is an issue with men and hernias as well. We\u2019ve seen that through the ACC numbers. But why have the Government not moved quickly on this? It is not that it\u2019s particularly expensive. When it comes to surgical mesh, there are a few things that are needed. They need to have a particular code. It isn\u2019t particularly onerous. National has guaranteed and promised that we will set up a surgical mesh register and it will be retrospective. These are the sorts of things that this Government, particularly in health, has shown no leadership on. So much for urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EPharmac, well, as I said, the petitions have been extraordinary, and I cannot understand why the Better Public Services targets have been removed. It removes the ability of the Government and the Minister of Health to actually manage what\u2019s going on, because to measure what\u2019s going on is to know how to manage it, and the Better Public Services targets had managed to focus the health officials and the other entities on what they needed to deliver for the money they were getting. By removing those, it has thrown things back into chaos. I think that is deplorable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere are a number of broken promises. New Zealand First is not without blame in this\u2014missing in action for New Zealand seniors. In the campaign, it was promised that there would be an annual health and eye check-up for seniors. Nothing has been done about it. I have asked the Minister written questions. I\u2019ve done Official Information Act requests. There is absolutely nothing happening in that space, and I think that\u2019s deplorable because New Zealand First got people\u2019s hopes up and now they have been dashed and the seniors feel very aggrieved about that, and I don\u2019t blame them a bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere was a promise to increase the age of breast screening to 74. It wasn\u2019t in the Budget. These are the kinds of measures that if you put them in and if you can therefore diagnose early and make a proper intervention early, then you will save lives. And, by the way, you will save health dollars, because it won\u2019t require such expensive interventions as people continue to progress with their disease. Bowel screening programmes: why has that not been rolled out? It has proved very successful in the Waitemata District Health Board, and it is something that needs to happen. Maybe it is because, as Michael Woodhouse pointed out, probably about 20, if not 21, of the DHBs will be in deficit. They can\u2019t afford anything. They\u2019re in big difficulty. The $10-cheaper doctors visits for all: that wasn\u2019t in the Budget either\u2014another broken promise. And the $20 million for access to lifesaving medicines for New Zealanders with rare disorders is something that comes up every week, it seems, in the Health Committee. Again today, we heard that those medications were not going to be funded. Where\u2019s the money? Where\u2019s the access? Why are there so many broken promises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EPeople\u2019s lives count for better than this, and this Government is deplorably letting down the vulnerable older people and those who are sick in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022069b7bb273d7442598e27fab4e74cd5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022069b7bb273d7442598e27fab4e74cd5a\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to take this call on the Appropriation (2019/20 Estimates) Bill, speaking to health. But before I begin my contribution this evening, I\u2019d just like to begin by acknowledging our colleague, a New Zealand First dearly loved member, Pita Paraone, who has passed away. In New Zealand First, we are deeply saddened by his passing. He was a very kind and very gentle man, and all of those who knew him, whether they worked with him in the wider community or in politics, they knew that he was a man of great integrity. We feel his loss deeply, and many of our members are so very deeply saddened, but we\u2019d also like to reach out to our Ng\u0101ti Hine family, who have also lost their uncle, their cousin, as well, and those that are in Parliament from Ng\u0101ti Hine, they are feeling this loss as we are. I know that those in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee who worked with him in the previous Parliaments have also expressed to me and to my colleagues how deeply saddened they are. So I did want to begin with that and acknowledge his passing. Haere atu r\u0101, moe mai, moe mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just had, along with some colleagues across the party, the most amazing experience. We have formed the cross-party mental health and addiction group. We have been able to come together for the good of New Zealand. This is, for me, what politics is really all about: what we can do collaboratively together. This was formed out of the inquiry into mental health in New Zealand, and it was one of the recommendations. There were 40 recommendations from He Ara Oranga and it was number 40: that we come together as a cross-party group and work together for the benefit of all those New Zealanders who are suffering. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo it was with great pleasure that we launched tonight, along with Sir \u201CJK\u201D\u2014John Kirwan\u2014and another fabulous woman, also Ng\u0101ti Hine and a cousin of Pita, Moe Milne, who\u2019s worked for five decades in the mental health area. We learnt from them their stories, their struggles, and the work that they have done in that mental health space, and so now we have taken it upon ourselves. We\u2019re carrying that baton together. So I\u2019d just like to acknowledge colleagues across the House: Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, Louisa Wall, Matt Doocey, and David Seymour and myself on that party. We have actually opened the invitation to all other members of Parliament to come and join this group, this cross-party group, and we would welcome you to be part of that as we work towards what Sir JK said was actually our Mount Everest and it\u2019s something that we have to knock off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EWe have to ensure that we reduce the deaths from suicide in this country. That is why this Government has invested $1.9 billion into mental health, because we see the crisis that it is and we know that to fix it we all have to come together and work really hard on ensuring that we reduce the suffering in our wh\u0101nau, in our communities, in our schools, wherever it is seen. We have the most appalling statistics in suicide, so I would like to acknowledge our Minister for making mental health and mental wellbeing at the forefront of this Wellbeing Budget in 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EWe want to make sure that all New Zealanders will be able to access free mental health and addiction support that works for them when they need it and how they need it. We need community services that are on the ground and that will be developed alongside kaupapa M\u0101ori services. Community services\u2014we\u2019ll need to train hundreds of new staff as well. We\u2019ll need to build new facilities across New Zealand so that we can transform our approach to mental health and addiction with significant and sustained investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EWe need to do this together. So reaching out through all of the mental health services, building up the support\u2014also something else that I\u2019m particularly interested in is making sure that we support people, the families that are left devastated and bereaved by suicide. Not just those with mental health issues but also the wh\u0101nau, the family that are supporting those through either suicide or supporting those with mental health addictions as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Chairperson. That\u2019s it for me this evening and I\u2019m very pleased to be on the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022df892e981d5e4a41a1050bfab788f94e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df892e981d5e4a41a1050bfab788f94e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETonight I stand to speak on Vote Health on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, and I want to focus on mental health and addiction, primarily. I just want to acknowledge a few of the comments made by Opposition members, in particular, about the likes of the strikes which we have seen particularly in the health sector. I just want to state that anybody who thinks that these events occur in a vacuum are kidding themselves. These things did not just happen overnight but instead they were the end point of an accumulation of a lack of investment, which this Budget is ultimately trying to redress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut I want to get to the point that anybody in this country who is experiencing mental distress or distress with addiction or substance abuse issues who has been watching this debate in the House tonight, and watching politicians shout back and forward at each other, probably isn\u2019t feeling very good about the state of affairs with regards to our progress moving forward. If I can offer an alternative vision, it\u2019s what we saw tonight with every single party in Parliament coming together to form the cross-party group on mental health and addiction wellbeing, which I\u2019ll get to later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut included within Vote Health for the past year, which we are obviously reflecting on\u2014it\u2019s important to, obviously, note the $1.9 billion in investment, which I note members of the Opposition have said it\u2019s important to not just talk about the amount of money that\u2019s being spent but to talk about the outcomes. Members of the Opposition have critiqued the co-design process that this Government is currently working through to ensure that these services are culturally appropriate, but, ultimately, as was stated by the Minister in front of the committee when they were grilling him on this Budget\u2014and it is contained within the select committee\u2019s report-back to this House\u2014the point is to get to a position where in this country any New Zealander who is experiencing a mental health or addiction problem is able to get culturally appropriate, accessible, and affordable services that work for them whenever they need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOne of the most obvious manifestations of this that we\u2019ve seen so far is the Piki pilot programme, available for 18- to 25-year-olds throughout the Greater Wellington region. Myself and the Associate Minister of Health, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, just earlier this week were out there announcing in the Hutt Valley the final stage of this roll-out that encompasses three district health boards. This is a crucial part of delivering on the Green-Labour confidence and supply agreement, particularly to make sure that we have fit for purpose mental health service provision for young people in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAn important part of that process is recognising that different people need different things at different times. So we\u2019re not just looking there at telehealth services. Nor are we looking just at face-to-face counselling, but indeed we\u2019re also looking at developing a peer-support service, in which notably all of those who are involved and have been trained up as peer support workers will be paid the living wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe have also throughout this process\u2014it was in November 2018 that He Ara Oranga, the Government initiated inquiry into mental health and addiction report, was finally released. This is a crucially important cornerstone of the Government\u2019s response to mental health and addictions. Importantly, what it did was set the foundation, or the blueprint, for no longer seeing mental health and addiction, the wellbeing of all New Zealanders in this country, simply through the lens of something that is medicalised or pathologised, but instead something that occurs in the context of their broader life. Importantly, as was stated in He Ara Oranga, even if people have underlying biological susceptibility towards manifesting mental health issues, it is their environment which can either exacerbate or minimise the manifestation of those problems. So, ultimately, the point I\u2019m getting at is that we need to ensure that we are providing people with that security in terms of housing, in terms of income, and in terms of security of their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EFinally, just to briefly round off tonight, we launched the cross-party group on mental health and addiction. Of course, service provision is never going to be a panacea for ensuring the wellbeing of all New Zealanders in this country. What we need to do is ensure that we are providing a culture that is conducive to that wellbeing and support for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac68671485cb4eb5acb68add54675a45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac68671485cb4eb5acb68add54675a45\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki. You actually have to verbalise your call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u002228ddedc67f05445ca1ef24bf1ef252ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228ddedc67f05445ca1ef24bf1ef252ff\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, right. Kia ora, kia ora, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a privilege to stand and make a call on the health Estimates. Before I do that, it would be remiss of me not to comment on some of the\u2014I\u2019m not sure of the contributions from the other side in terms of them saying, \u201CThey\u2019ve had 18 months to do something. Can\u2019t they do something now?\u201D Reports have said there is evidence that in the nine years of National, many of our social issues, including the health system, were being ignored, and now we are paying the price for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Dr Liz Craig\u2019s contribution and her analogy that New Zealand was malnourished\u2014in her analogy of New Zealand under National, we were malnourished. In fact, it was shown, especially in South Auckland at Middlemore Hospital, where sewage was seeping out of hospital walls. There was no plan for cancer, underfunded Pharmac, and an underfunded health system by over $2.3 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the leadership of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, and I want to take us to the priorities of the Wellbeing Budget. It\u2019s always a privilege for me to stand and make a contribution. The Wellbeing Budget, I want to remind everybody\u2014I could just say it\u2019s medication for what National has left us after nine years: taking mental health seriously, improving child wellbeing, supporting M\u0101ori and Pasifika aspirations, building a nation, transforming the economy. What that is saying is that we are looking 30 years ahead, not just three, and unlike National, who were basically doing nothing in the last nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Minister the Hon David Clark in terms of our vision. Our vision for the future is one where people in distress\u2014the support they need is when, where, and how they want it. That\u2019s why, as a Government, we have asked for the report of the Government inquiry into mental health, He Ara Oranga. The reason why is that we needed to hear from people about what they needed, and that\u2019s what happened. Mental health is an example of how actions speak louder than words\u2014actions speak louder than words. We said we\u2019d do an inquiry, and we\u2019ve heard from the chair of the Health Committee that the majority of those recommendations from that inquiry are being undertaken by this Government. What that is saying is we have a plan for mental health. What we\u2019ve seen, when we say we\u2019re taking mental health seriously\u2014if we take us back to the report of the Health Committee, on page 3 what it talks about is that Vote Health has been allocated $827.3 million over four years, with a total of 16 new policy initiatives, where there was underfunding for mental health and wellbeing. We\u2019ve heard that the priority was identified, like I said, through talking with New Zealanders, as identified by the He Ara Oranga report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to just share some of the package in terms of when we say we\u2019re taking mental health seriously, in terms of a free, nationwide, front-line mental health service that is easy to access and immediately available for anyone suffering from mental health issues, benefiting hundreds of New Zealanders. We are in an era where we are talking to ourselves more than ever, individually. Technology, social media\u2014every New Zealander speaks in their mind every day in terms of social media, and what that is saying is that we need to look in those areas and invest in mental health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to take us again to the Health Committee Estimates report, on page 4, where it talks about how it aims to have access for mental health. The pivotal words in there are \u201Caccess to mental health\u201D, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing. That is what this Government is doing, and I want to acknowledge the Hon Jenny Salesa there, who\u2019s in the chair, in terms of her previous Budget announcement about rheumatic fever in South Auckland, something that the National Party was doing really well, but then they stopped funding it\u2014doing something well and they stopped funding it. I want to acknowledge the Minister on her leadership in that investment back again into South Auckland. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c545fad5481f4927bdd4c631e2d06036\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c545fad5481f4927bdd4c631e2d06036\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to first of all acknowledge the passing of Mr Pita Paraone. I know that he was one of the colleagues, a former New Zealand First MP from Ng\u0101ti Hine, and he is related to so many of our M\u0101ori MPs, and he will be missed\u2014such a humble man of integrity. I wish his family well. May he rest in love. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAfter nine years of underfunding, after nine long years of neglect in the health sector, I want to first of all touch on infrastructure. Our Government is investing in rebuilding the health system, and we are investing in building and maintaining our hospitals. When we came into Government, one of the things that Treasury told us was that it would take an investment of up to $14 billion\u2014$14 billion\u2014just to fix our hospitals and to make sure that they are well maintained right throughout Aotearoa. When one of our speakers was talking earlier on, quite a few of the folks over on the Opposition side were kind of shouting out, \u201COh, the hospitals are not really that bad. It is rubbish.\u201D\u2014that, you know, we do not need to fix our hospitals that badly. Middlemore Hospital is a hospital right in my electorate in South Auckland, and just over the weekend I was actually spending some time in the hospital visiting a relative, and I can tell you there were at least two of the big hospital buildings in Middlemore that were all covered in plastic. Why? Because they are fixing it up, because the walls are rotting, because it has been leaking\u2014and, yes, as per the Minister of Health, there has been some sewage that has been going down the walls at Middlemore Hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe came into Government, and in just over two Budgets we are investing $1.7 billion to fix up our hospitals. Our last Budget, we\u2019re investing $850 million, and that\u2019s in addition to the investment that we made in our first Budget. Compare that to the previous Government. Their last Budget investment in terms of capital for hospitals was $150 million. Now, how can you fix up all of the issues in hospitals with only $150 million when Treasury tells us that it will take at least $14 billion to fix our hospitals up? There have been nine very long years of non-funding and neglect, and we are investing to rebuild our hospital systems up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we\u2019re doing as a Government that is different to what the last Government did is we are actually partnering with industry, because we know as we are fixing up our hospitals, we also need to train and to attract young people to come into the building and construction sector. We know that industry is also very interested in ensuring that we train up our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of cancer, we hear the calls from the Opposition saying, \u201CWhere is the Government\u2019s plan in terms of cancer?\u201D Well, I\u2019ve got good news. On Sunday, our Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, will be announcing our cancer plan, and I cannot wait to hear more, because we are a Government that has really invested in fixing things long term. We do not just come in and tinker around the edges. We are about fixing things long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of Pacific and M\u0101ori, we\u2019re investing $12 million in terms of rheumatic fever, because we know that two-thirds of the rheumatic fever cases are in Auckland, and especially in South Auckland. But we also know, because the feedback from M\u0101ori and Pacific providers and our families\u2014they\u2019ve been telling us that the services that work for them are when they actually have a say in designing those services. So we are ensuring that \u201Cby M\u0101ori for M\u0101ori\u201D and \u201Cby Pacific for Pacific\u201D providers have a big say in ensuring that those services get out to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of wellbeing, we are also investing $47.6 million in the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Education, and Sport New Zealand, because we know that in order to address things long term for our young people, we need to ensure that our nutritional guidelines in our schools are actually something that the Ministry of Health is working on. We also need to ensure that more of our schools have water only in their schools, and we also need to ensure that our children are eating nutritional, healthy foods, because that is the way to address health long term. Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022487352ae01364e2e92ae9de30ced3fbb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Vote Health be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EVote Health agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bdb31895faa04de497374ce42ec42e01\u0022\u003EJustice Sector\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002241b02d85a6194ce584684c4e70827ed8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241b02d85a6194ce584684c4e70827ed8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to the votes in the justice sector volume\u2014B.5, Volume 7. The question is that Vote Attorney-General, Vote Corrections, Vote Courts, Vote Justice, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Police, and Vote Serious Fraud stand part of the Schedules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u002242d3c47a4d19426293b96ddbc3afd642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242d3c47a4d19426293b96ddbc3afd642\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E He mihi tuatahi ki Te Atua, t\u014Dku hoa a Pita Paraone, e te rangatira, haere, haere, moe mai r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E[Firstly I acknowledge God. My friend Pita Paraone, my leader, farewell\u2014rest in peace.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EWith other members, I too want to acknowledge the very sad passing of a dear colleague, the honourable member Pita Paraone of Ng\u0101ti Hine and of Ng\u0101puhi-nui-tonu, and to add my words and to go on Hansard in acknowledging what a fine, outstanding New Zealander Pita Paraone was, and his contribution in this House and his commitment to his people of Ng\u0101ti Hine and of Ng\u0101puhi, particularly. It is important for me as the member for Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti to send our dear condolences to Pita Paraone\u2019s wh\u0101nau, Ng\u0101ti Hine and of Ng\u0101puhi-nui-tonu, as well as to our dear colleagues of the New Zealand First Party. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EMr Chair, I\u2019m proud to take a call on this section of our law and order system as the new chair of the Justice Committee. Like you said, we\u2019ve had seven votes that have come before our select committee. You\u2019ve acknowledged them. We\u2019ve had four Ministers\u2014Minister Parker, Minister Davis, Minister Little, and Minister Nash\u2014across the various votes that we\u2019ve examined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EIn my own research as a contribution to this debate, I looked at the last five or six years\u2019 votes across the law and order sector, and I see that it has significantly increased, more so in the last two years\u2014particularly, around corrections and police, and don\u2019t the police do a fine job for this country? Don\u2019t the police do a fine job for this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the former chair of the select committee, Raymond Huo, who chaired this committee\u2014and who was actually present during the Estimates examinations\u2014and also the members of the Justice Committee, who did a thorough job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI do want to touch on the police, particularly as an immediate result of the horror that happened in Christchurch and the move to introduce the buy-back scheme for guns. Of course, the select committee did ask whether the compensation regime was fit for purpose, and we had several experts come and talk about that. It was a concern raised at the select committee around whether we\u2019d got that right. Today, we\u2019ve had another take on that, with a supposed leak of draft legislation, where we were trying to address the horrors of Christchurch as a nation by taking semi-automatic guns off the street. I do hope the Opposition reconsiders its position as we commit to making New Zealand a safe place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EThis is about ensuring the communities in this part of the votes in this debate are safe, but we also are a Government that wants to do things differently. In no better place do we see that but in the corrections area, where in this vote, 80 new policy initiatives were shared with the select committee, including increased funding around custodial services, community-based sentences, rehabilitation programmes, increased services for mental health\u2014and we can see the prevalence of mental health coming across the various votes. It is no different in corrections, which was examined at the select committee around the importance\u2014and it\u2019s interesting, the percentage. Almost 91 percent of prisoners in our prisons actually have mental health issues or substance abuse\u201491 percent\u2014and this Minister, Kelvin Davis, is addressing that. He is addressing that by ensuring that we have got the support within the prisons for those that suffer from both mental health issues and drug and alcohol addictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EOf course, one that\u2019s really dear to my heart that was raised in the select committee was this new kaupapa M\u0101ori programme which the Minister launched recently, called H\u014Dkai Rangi. It is a new way of operating that I think is going to be world class in this nation, around giving offenders the opportunity to reconnect to their wh\u0101nau, their people. We all know that over 50 percent of all those who are incarcerated are of M\u0101ori descent. I actually believe that this strategy is going to make a big difference as we go forward to make sure both the safety of our communities but also that people are given a fair shot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002295004fc259644f83af026b86ff1d37fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295004fc259644f83af026b86ff1d37fa\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Can I just make my opening statements directed towards New Zealand First\u2014and I see there\u2019s still one member in the Chamber\u2014and, again, share our condolences, or my condolences, at the loss of Pita Paraone. Although I only knew him for a relatively short time in my first term in Parliament, I consider him a friend. We would often attend the Parliamentary Prayer Breakfast together on a Wednesday morning. He only ever had a kind word of encouragement, regardless of which party members were in. I just feel that actually he carried himself like one of our true statesmen, and he is a huge loss for us, without a doubt, as a country and as a nation. So can I just pass on my condolences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EObviously, Vote Justice for us this year\u2014it would be fair to say it was a disappointment. It certainly hasn\u2019t seen the investment that it was promised. I was very disappointed that we had the Minister of Justice, Andrew Little, we had the Minister for Oranga Tamariki, Tracey Martin, and we had the Parliamentary Under-Secretary to the Minister of Justice, Jan Logie, all appear in front of the committee, on their request, because they felt that they would be able to provide the committee with clearer, more concise answers around their joined-up approach and the approach that they were taking with our justice sector reforms. We were disappointed because we were promised that the police Minister would be there as well, and we were told at the last minute that he could not attend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just quite simply put one scenario to the two Ministers and the under-secretary. I won\u2019t go into the scenario here, but it\u2019s a fairly common scenario that many Kiwis have had to deal with and experience in terms of crime-related matters. I stepped them right through it and I said, \u201CNow, with the two Ministers and the under-secretary and your talk of sweeping reforms and new ideas and a new approach, can you just step the committee through the changes that you\u2019ve made, or the changes that you are considering, so that we can have an idea in terms of the type of reforms that you\u2019re actually going to effect?\u201D There was quite a bit of chatter and talk amongst the two Ministers and the under-secretary. In all fairness to the Minister of Justice, he did come up with one example. He said, \u201CYes, the victim will be able to give her evidence on video and closed-circuit TV.\u201D\u2014but that was our initiative. That was an initiative that the National Government brought in. That\u2019s not a new initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EYou could probably understand our genuine consternation, or my consternation, that 18 months into this new Government, with an incoming Minister stating very clearly that this was going to be one of the biggest reformist Governments that we\u2019ve seen in a generation when it comes to our criminal justice sector, and between the three of them they couldn\u2019t put up one example\u2014one clear example\u2014of a change that had been made, in a case that I\u2019d put up as an example, that covered the whole criminal justice system in terms of how we could get a feel for what was actually happening. To me, that\u2019s a real worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI think that there\u2019s a real problem. I think the Minister has got a real problem here. I think that he\u2019s genuine. I\u2019ve known him since I came into Parliament. I think he\u2019s driven genuinely by wanting to make change and make our criminal justice system better\u2014there\u2019s no doubt about that\u2014but I think that every time he tries to do something or take a paper to Cabinet, or actually get some momentum, some energy going behind that, he\u2019s stopped, and he\u2019s stopped either by his partner on the left or he\u2019s stopped by his partner on his right. Therefore, we\u2019re not seeing the reforms that we were promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIf I just quickly move through some of the other things that were very disappointing\u2014very disappointing\u2014in the justice appropriations, and that was the fact that under National, we established two very good courts. One was the drug and alcohol court. If you talk to the judges, if you talk to the officers, if you talk to anyone\u2014if you talk to the offenders that have had to go through that system\u2014they\u2019ll tell you that it\u2019s very effective and that it\u2019s working. Yes, we set those up as pilots, because we wanted to make sure that they were going to work, that they were actually going to make a difference. If we were in Government, I can assure you that we would be rolling those drug and alcohol courts out right around the country. We\u2019d be making sure that Kiwis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233705e951b364f5dbc738aea7d5f45ae\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: But you didn\u2019t. They\u2019ve been piloted for seven years\u2014you didn\u2019t do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8549fb65f74776b32fcb264d288050\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014had access. The Minister says that we didn\u2019t. Well, I\u2019m stating to him now that we would roll those out. If the Minister takes a call, I have a question for him: why, Minister, didn\u2019t you roll out the drug and alcohol courts? It seems to be a very sensitive subject. It seems to be a very sensitive subject over there. So my question is quite simply this: someone stand up, someone take a call, and explain to us why you didn\u2019t roll this programme out. It\u2019s successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not just talk about the drug and alcohol courts; let\u2019s talk about the family and sexual violence courts. That\u2019s another model that\u2019s working very well, so I\u2019d be very interested to know why there\u2019s not more funding and why these aren\u2019t being rolled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s move on. Unfortunately, I don\u2019t have much time\u2014I need a lot more. Let\u2019s move on to the advisory group. I have to say, I do want to genuinely acknowledge the Hon Chester Borrows. He was a colleague and friend of mine\u2014still is a friend of mine\u2014that I worked with. But Chester and I, we disagreed\u2014we disagreed when this panel was formed. We disagreed because I didn\u2019t like the fact that the chairman of the committee came out and said, \u201CThere\u2019s to be no emotion. Remove emotion from the debate, and we don\u2019t want any tough-on-crime talk.\u201D So he was already signalling where the committee really was going to be taken, where it was really going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s probably fair to say that the committee is very aligned with the philosophy that actually this Government has adopted around no policies in terms of actually being able to reduce or fight crime, with policies only focused on letting prisoners out of prison. That doesn\u2019t work. That doesn\u2019t make communities safer, it doesn\u2019t deal with the real problem; all it does is it opens a door and allows someone out that is probably better off in prison, because, number one, the community is safer, and, number two, there actually can be some programmes delivered in terms of rehabilitation and the hope to reintegrate them back into the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo, in my view, for this advisory group, the complete wrong signals were sent, and I felt very strongly that, actually, it would probably start to fall apart\u2014it would probably start to split for that reason. And what happened? Sadly, that\u2019s exactly what happened. You had\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022541c8f92399648108d71b044af3528d3\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: No, it didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a84f38b75a41f3b61f1604aa4c6b88\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister says no. From my understanding, two members have resigned and left the group. If I\u2019m wrong, then stand and correct me. I also understand that there was a lot of tension that was created between the panel\u2014between the group\u2014and the secretariat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo, number one, it shouldn\u2019t have been outsourced. The Minister should have taken control of this, and, actually, after nine years in Opposition, you should have had some ideas. You should have had some ideas, you should have known what you wanted to do, and you should have known how to implement. I make this promise\u2014I can tell you this: after three years in Opposition, we\u2019ve got a plan for next year. We know what we\u2019re going to be doing next year, all right? Nine years of Opposition, one discussion paper; two years in Opposition, we\u2019ve got four. That\u2019s the difference. That\u2019s why the country is slowly losing confidence in the Government, because they actually don\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThey didn\u2019t do the homework, they\u2019ve got no plan, and it\u2019s showing in the justice reforms. There\u2019s nothing going on. There\u2019s nothing happening. Long-term effects of mental health and addiction programmes\u2014again, where\u2019s the funding? The only real piece of legislation that we saw brought to this House was to deal with victims of domestic violence, which is important, without a doubt. We all, in this House, acknowledge that. But they came to this House and all they did was they passed the responsibility on to employers and said to employers, \u201CYou\u2019ll pay to support victims of domestic violence. Doesn\u2019t matter when it occurred or how it happened; you\u2019ll just have to fix it. Another 10 days\u2019 annual leave.\u201D, and said to small business and medium sized business, \u201CYou guys sort it out.\u201D When we said, \u201CI\u2019ll tell you what, in fairness, why doesn\u2019t the Government fund that? Why doesn\u2019t the Government pay for that programme, instead of forcing the cost on to small and medium sized business?\u201D, the answer was no. We\u2019re not. They can pick up the cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EMethamphetamine\u2014why did they not restore the $10 million programme around methamphetamine? The Minister says because it was due to stop. That doesn\u2019t stop you, Minister\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022954969d7e42d4c2c89707961f297e405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022954969d7e42d4c2c89707961f297e405\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a quick call on this very important issue, which is about the Estimates for the justice sector. There were a number of points that the member Mark Mitchell, who\u2019s just resumed his seat, has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc56cecd0a0b41989664684e2bcb8cfa\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, God, he went on, didn\u2019t he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea1eedeb0604df9be58eae994f03972\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think I could charitably describe them as unfortunate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s be very clear about the legacy that we inherited when we took office. We had a prison population at nearly 11,000\u201411,000 people in our prison system\u2014after a rapid rise after the members opposite were in Government. What was happening was more than $1 billion\u2014nearly $1.5 billion\u2014was being spent on locking up, containing, and controlling 11,000 prisoners and nothing useful happening. Worse than that, 60 percent of them\u201460 percent of them\u2014after they were released reoffended. They call that success. They call that a criminal justice system. Absolutely hopeless\u2014absolutely hopeless. They hang their heads in shame, as they should, because that\u2019s not a justice system; that is a failure of a justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, the member opposite, the Hon Mark Mitchell, talked about the alcohol and other drug treatment court. They\u2019ve been under a pilot for seven years. When we came here, they had just renewed the pilot for another two years, so we let that pilot go, because we had to, because they\u2019d set up an evaluation process at the end of that two years. Seven years they ran the pilot, because they did not want to make the hard decision about rolling them out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen they came up with another great idea: \u201CWe\u2019ll pilot another court\u2014the sexual violence court.\u201D They didn\u2019t even start that pilot; we started it\u2014we started it. That has now come to its end, and we\u2019re now undergoing the evaluation, and I think we\u2019re going to get some good information from that. I feel very confident about the future of that, because the reality is, when you look around the world\u2014and here\u2019s an interesting place to have a look at, and it\u2019s the state of Texas in the United States, regarded as kind of the lone cowboy and all the rest of it. They had one of the most amazing transformations in their criminal justice system, supported by both Republicans and Democrats at the state level and at the federal level as well. They managed to reduce their prison population by something like 45 percent over a number of years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThey reduced criminal offending by 25 percent, serious criminal offending by 20 percent, because they just made a decision. They said, \u201CYou know what?\u201D\u2014the equivalent in New Zealand\u2014\u201Cspending a billion and a half dollars on just locking people up and seeing a 60 percent reoffending rate ain\u2019t doing anybody any good, and we have to change it.\u201D They had the courage, the Republicans and the Democrats in Texas, to say, \u201CWe\u2019ve got to do things differently.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the committee have said we\u2019ve got the courage to do things differently. But here\u2019s the other thing\u2014here\u2019s the other challenge we have in New Zealand: we know that in our criminal justice system, M\u0101ori, who comprise 15 percent of our general population, are well over half of those who go through our criminal justice system, whether it\u2019s at the point of arrest, whether it\u2019s going through the courts, or whether it\u2019s entering prison. You\u2019ve got to actually deal with that issue seriously, and you\u2019ve got to talk to the people affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou see, the culture on this side of the House\u2014one of the underlying values of this Government is we, proudly, have departed from the old Tory value of \u201CWe know best\u2014we know best\u2014and we will just tell everybody what\u2019s good for them.\u201D We\u2019ve had quite a few years of that\u2014in fact, some would say nine long years of that\u2014years and years of telling people what\u2019s good for them without talking to the people affected themselves. It\u2019s amazing, when you give people a chance to have a say on the stuff that\u2019s affecting them, what comes out of it. There\u2019s a bit of venting, there\u2019s a bit of talking about stuff that\u2019s been deeply held for a long time, but, actually, you give people a chance to come up with some constructive suggestions and it\u2019s amazing what they\u2019ll come up with. Now, that\u2019s just in criminal justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve reviewed the Family Court, because the previous Government\u2019s changes in the Family Court system have been an absolute disaster\u2014an unmitigated disaster. People left bereft, children left for month after month after month not knowing what their care arrangements are because mum and dad can\u2019t reach agreement and the court doesn\u2019t have time to tell them. So we had to make changes there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ERight across the board, this Government has taken on the hard issues, the long-term issues, the difficult issues, because that\u2019s what decent, responsible Governments do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002281aca0a0ce234107bab5dccd9e180433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281aca0a0ce234107bab5dccd9e180433\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Could I commence as other members have done by honouring the memory of the late former member Pita Paraone. He was a very fine and principled member of this House. He always spoke with great mana, dignity, and he was heard with respect not only in this House but right around the country. I send my aroha and condolences to his wh\u0101nau and hap\u016B. I was proud to consider Pita a friend during our time in the House together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t on the Justice Committee when the Budget was presented, but I was subsequently delighted to be appointed the shadow Attorney-General, and, more by good luck than by good management, I was subbed on to the Justice Committee just a week before that appointment, on the morning that the Attorney-General appeared. I want to focus on some of the important issues that the committee traversed that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBefore I do so, could I pay tribute to my predecessor in that role as shadow Attorney-General, the previous Minister of Justice, the retiring member for Selwyn, and my very dear friend, the Hon Amy Adams. She will be dearly missed and is a great loss to our caucus. Amy has, of course, a keen legal mind and a dazzling intellect, and I make no claims to either of those attributes. I\u2019m more than a little intimidated to be following in her footsteps and, indeed, those of her predecessor, the equally erudite and highly respected former Attorney-General, the Hon Christopher Finlayson QC. I should probably sing his praises even more, but I\u2019ve noticed that Chris divides his time fairly equally in retirement between blasting his way out of a bunker in the 17th at Heretaunga and watching Parliament TV. So I won\u2019t cause him greater embarrassment by extolling his considerable virtues should he happen to be watching now. Truth be told, I have absolutely no idea if there is a bunker on the 17th at Heretaunga, but let\u2019s not be pedantic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMembers will remember that in the week leading up to the Budget, there was an unprecedented incident which saw the Opposition gain easy access to Budget information via the Treasury website, only to face the extraordinary and utterly fatuous allegation of having participated in some form of hacking. In his typically inflammatory style, the Deputy Prime Minister smugly claimed that he knew exactly what had gone on and that all hell would break loose as the Opposition faced criminal prosecution for dastardly deeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, once again Mr Peters was talking nonsense, while demonstrating his total ignorance of basic matters of cyber security and modern technology. But, more importantly, he made serious, fatuous allegations as a senior member of the executive. Then the Minister of Finance waded into the fray, compounding Mr Peters\u2019 error and, again, making wild accusations that were subsequently proved to be utterly unfounded. Of course, and as the Opposition had repeatedly asserted, it very quickly became apparent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e8a4671192f4ed58561d76a857ff344\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but it has come time for me to report progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EBill reported with progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019082822c73cd0759844a8bcd6ae362abc1c96000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"