"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002203d2c424c32d4755a794a77635ce2aae\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f373ca153984a98aec53bf68b24dbb2\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227abf6adf825c4ca49b0207a28207a3db\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022106b1ec742634781bdc568b2d8d65f5f\u0022\u003EEnd of Life Choice Bill\u2014Allocation of Calls\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4896ebfab254ef98752626bc45c2d18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4896ebfab254ef98752626bc45c2d18\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before we move to questions, I just want to give an indication with regard to the End of Life Choice Bill debate, third reading. I have received a note from a member with some advice from a particular group from a particular party as to the allocation of calls. If I took that advice and was balanced, it would mean that no one else with that point of view or from that party would get a 10-minute call. Therefore, I\u2019m not prepared to accept that advice. But, as guidance, I want to indicate that I will attempt through the debate to get balance on an issue, to be even-handed around the House, and to give some preference to people who have shown leadership on the issue during the period, who worked hard on the select committee. I will take into account those who have already had calls in the earlier readings of the bill. I will have regard to seniority in the House. I will have regard to attendance during the debate and the fact that people have been seeking the call. I will give preference to people who have indicated that they would prefer a five-minute as opposed to a 10-minute speech, but I will allocate on the basis that early speakers in the debate will receive 10 minutes unless they have indicated to me that they would prefer five minutes, and people should do that by way of note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fa86b2b50b14202bbdc601f2f0a1d89\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002296db636c76cc412cb6a876eec9883a78\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266a687f4fc8c44a5ada01c4aeeba61b4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5653a022e7d4b1797442b3cef86da20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5653a022e7d4b1797442b3cef86da20\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What reports has he seen in response to the Government\u2019s reform of Tomorrow\u2019s Schools? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a66e6664d0324e578e5477a2637cf550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a66e6664d0324e578e5477a2637cf550\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The reforms have been broadly welcomed. IHC have said the announcement \u201Cgoes a long way to ensure that disabled children get a fair go at school.\u201D, NZEI Te Riu Roa have said, \u201CWhat we\u2019ve seen today provides hope, and focuses on greater support for school leaders and teachers to meet the needs of our students, while still empowering local [school] Boards of Trustees.\u201D, and Te Rito Maioha Early Childhood New Zealand has said, \u201CThis will be a major transformative change for the education sector and will require everyone to be brave and to embrace the future.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfbdad316a5847a9b6a53e18e53956fe\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What response has he seen to the new disputes and mediation panel? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b1f0d130674abb8ce48d973641c7d3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I was particularly heartened by feedback from the Children\u2019s Commissioner received via Twitter yesterday that said, \u201CToday\u2019s announcement by Minister Hipkins that parents and students will have access to a free, independent \u0026amp; prompt disputes panel to appeal BoT decisions is a win for our children. We have long been advocating for this. Currently students who face exclusion can only go to the costly High Court to appeal or [to] the Ombudsman. Access to education for all is one of our top priorities and this is a great step forward.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de2a9b1be2741b5b401f7111d7b23af\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What response has he seen to the changing responsibilities for school property? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30b4ca7cbd343b9913952efb5d219eb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I was particularly encouraged by the Secondary Principals Council, who said, \u201CAnother positive is the move to the Ministry of Education having more of a support role in schools. In particular, moving property to the new Education Support agency will let boards focus on governance rather than red-tape.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f37001e996846dd8baf6be201cbb353\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What response has he seen to a local approach to enrolment schemes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224dca8630ea7426fa28206762a737ced\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen one or two principals who have said that this is a step too far. However, I have also seen the Auckland Secondary Schools Principals\u2019 Association, who have said that, if anything, the changes don\u2019t go far enough in discouraging out-of-zone enrolments. So I think we\u2019ve probably got the balance about right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022402fc3abebd34bd3ba2d719a8af025be\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has the Minister seen any knee-jerk negativity in reactions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0ba1d5b81d4b85a8bed4416942e9d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sit down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267140fda1a2f421a907586a733222c18\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00228a8ed2196da34ee58669d454e8e26bcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a8ed2196da34ee58669d454e8e26bcb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s policies and statements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00226fa071ccc12747668ffd535e6d15b38f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fa071ccc12747668ffd535e6d15b38f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly our policy to scrap NCEA fees, which means students across the country are currently sitting exams without fees for the first time. More than 145,000 households are estimated to benefit from the removal of the $76.70 NCEA fee that families pay every year for around 168,000 secondary students\u2014more good news for families and efforts to reduce the cost of living by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d90e28f175b4839995ebf961e0e0769\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that fees-free has not increased student participation and, in fact, there are fewer learners in tertiary education since the policy has been implemented? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb3fbcdfd9a840278584eab007a7ad06\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Looking at what we had in terms of enrolment across tertiary education under the last Government, we saw a decline from 458,000 to 404,000 enrolled in tertiary education. We had a decline right at the time when we had a skills shortage. We are trying to stem that tide. It\u2019s also worth profiling the fact that we had the burden of debt and a barrier to entry into post-secondary education. So fees-free has meant that more than 30,000 fewer students borrowed to pay tertiary fees last year compared with 2017, saving them $194 million. Those are the benefits of fees-free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858c94759ca14f708ed5df4dfe058e28\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept her Cabinet forecast 80,000 enrolments in the first year of fees-free and there have, in fact, been only 50,000? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9967e8efc8483cb67f8fbf177a4798\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Our goal has been to remove the barriers to tertiary education and trade training, making sure that we stop this massive skills gap that we have in New Zealand. What I find somewhat confusing is that the National Party discussion document today seems to propose retaining fees-free whilst, at the same time, spending all of the money that it requires to make it a reality. So I\u2019m not too sure what the member\u2019s policy is on fees-free any more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eeeab82d796434aa2e9babdf628fd4b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Was there $50 million in wasted expenditure last year on students who got fees-free and didn\u2019t even complete the year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274a524f5c42a40be86e5a156c29fec9a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No. I don\u2019t consider any investment in education a waste of money. We have a skills gap in New Zealand. We need to be training and educating our young people. I note that what the member is proposing, if it is indeed to scrap fees-free, means that people who are accessing apprenticeships for two years for free will no longer be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801b3d0c141244f79fbca80ff128cbc0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is fees-free an expensive failure that should be scrapped for more effective education investments? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3f8394525bd4bfdac284ddd9836061e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d be interested if that\u2019s the member\u2019s position, because his discussion document suggests retaining it for the final year of study. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4e3228f97c49dca1a3b47c6f9b14cf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government extend fees-free to the second year of tertiary education, like she\u2019s previously promised? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbb8e3508bc484e8ff989cf2d77da79\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Our commitment for this term of Government was for the first year, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a4ce1e3a4048cebf420f06c5d53685\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she look to implement the full fees-free package more rapidly, given she promised that she would if conditions permit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716c0df72d794c2ea265a9ded0344b08\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: What we said we\u2019d do is make the first year free. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve done. I\u2019d be very interested to know if the member himself is going to bring in fees-free, because I note Judith Collins has already spent the money with some of her proposals, and Nikki Kaye already spent the money for some of her proposals. Fees-free has been spent about three or four times over by the Opposition, and now they seem to be proposing to keep it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a308cdfec84504832440c56d651bf5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You may have had a chance to observe, as we did, that after the Leader of the Opposition asked that question, he then interjected four times, as loud as he possibly could. If he\u2019s going to ask any other questions, he should be asked, please, to have some respect for the procedures of this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6fc0a04ba9b47629a4f66947ff6a8f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was actually contemplating intervening because of the repeated shouted interjections from the Leader of the Opposition. The Deputy Prime Minister might have seen that I actually rolled my seat back in preparation for so doing. At about that point, I think it\u2019s fair to say that, for whatever reason, the Leader of the Opposition stopped, and I decided to let it run on. So the Deputy Prime Minister is, of course, correct that people shouldn\u2019t try and shout down someone answering a question immediately after the question is asked, but in this case, I think it\u2019s fair to say that, on balance, I was correct not to intervene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad42e31268004d628c0237095fdafa2a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister believe that increasing the cost of tertiary education and training will help or hinder the skills shortages the country already faces? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222951136e78084164a0b2648ee7145e57\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would expect that kind of proposal to come from the very party that presided over a decline in those continuing their education and training. We are facing a massive skills shortage. We have a huge infrastructure deficit. We need skilled people in construction and the trades. Fees-free provides that with two years of free training for apprentices. I\u2019m dismayed that the Opposition would propose getting rid of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fddb4491a3aa48e49f0d23f253707f3a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has she recently made a statement that she will not go on radio shows unless there is \u201Csomething like another March 15th\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276c288ac780943ae95740c08bd86d534\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I have absolutely no idea what the member\u2019s talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226baede6fbd894cfe9b13f45d1adc2bdf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have a policy that she gave to her press secretary that she will not go on Chris Lynch\u2019s show unless there is \u201Csomething like another March 15th\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9eda3b0c50342648a2e3f96c8399d59\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I do not know what the member is talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221061a3f166174244840e4c82415e6c93\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why did her press secretary tell Chris Lynch\u2019s producer that the Prime Minister wouldn\u2019t go on his programme unless there is \u201Csomething like another March 15th\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc69bfefba674a0ea43c69d006606778\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already answered that question twice. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256bee00db08243a8a20875896ac3efde\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! If Paul Goldsmith wants Nikki Kaye to have a question, he will zip his mouth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd47695187e04a2da761e36d0eb6c767\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was in response to huge prevarication from the Hon Grant Robertson, who was yelling at him repeatedly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236dd4f3edc2944ddbeaf197a9c616903\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I wish that Grant Robertson had prevaricated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223bf423cec9434c07b527581aaf02d55a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4718b5263964ac480e2e6bcb7be1177\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4718b5263964ac480e2e6bcb7be1177\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002227fc9218242947238aaebb1d10ba0902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227fc9218242947238aaebb1d10ba0902\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely. I particularly stand by the fact that 80,000 students in post-secondary education and training have benefited from the first year free in tertiary education, I stand by 2,000 more teachers being supported into schools after inheriting a 40 percent reduction in those training to be teachers, and I also stand by this Government making the largest ever investment by a New Zealand Government in school property and the first national plan for managing student growth in classrooms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3780493f44946e49d1ca3e4a2d4577f\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement in 2018, regarding reducing teacher to student ratios in primary schools, that the Government will consider any changes as part of future Budget rounds, and why has he not delivered on this? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224a453016ef642a0abc497d81baecae3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve still got plenty of Budget rounds to go, and I\u2019m sure there will be many Budget rounds to go. The biggest impediment to lowering class sizes at the moment is that we\u2019re struggling to find enough teachers to fill the vacancies that we already have. I note that it takes three to four years to train a teacher, and this Government has been in office for only two years. It will take some time to repair the damage that we inherited from the nine years of neglect of the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205ee45d2890e49d195751e3730c84fee\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Has he apologised to the Prime Minister, given, under his watch, early intervention times have increased by nearly 50 percent when the Prime Minister promised to reduce waiting times? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7e69c79802b4720b31dcad469eef0e1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the biggest impediment to reducing early intervention times is a lack of a skilled workforce to do so. That is a problem that we inherited from the last Government. We are taking action to deal with that. Early intervention times are unacceptable\u2014they\u2019re utterly unacceptable. They were on an upwards trajectory under the last Government. They\u2019ve continued on that trajectory because we haven\u2019t had the skilled workforce to be able to deal with that. It\u2019s not good enough. We will do better. This Government will do better. We will repair the damage done by the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2fca54fcb5d47dc9f070a48009e1ba0\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his decisions regarding his donation schemes, given statements by principals that are calling his scheme confusing and inequitable? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e045b6b1d1ab4693bea9f705a95fa544\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: What has become abundantly clear is that despite the denials of the last Government, a number of schools haven\u2019t been following the law when it comes to what they can charge fees for and what they can ask donations for, and that is actually part of the issue that this policy has highlighted. I stand by the introduction of the policy because for the vast bulk of schools who are taking it up\u2014and there is a significant number who are\u2014they\u2019re going to end up significantly financially better off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292cf6f025ed74e8b952139de29b52998\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by this Government\u2019s decisions regarding the roll-out of learning support coordinators, given that educators have recently said it has failed the test on delivering to the children that needed it most first? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226362d5579d1a41d6adde0f549244176f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The learning support coordinators won\u2019t actually be in place until the beginning of next year, so I think it\u2019s a little premature for the member to be making that judgment. I absolutely stand by that decision to roll out the learning support coordinators. It was something that Labour, New Zealand First, and the Green Party committed to when we were in Opposition, when we did the detailed work on what was going to be required to undo the damage to learning support that was done by the last Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7b41b8cada74f54b495de595a7fbf2d\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. When we look back at the Hansard, what I actually said was \u201Cgiven educators have said that it failed the test\u201D. I\u2019d be happy to seek leave to table\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0483bf795a42e69b4be45f405786a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I think that question has certainly been addressed. Some would argue that it\u2019s been answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de5b3b8a534e4f7d8b66edc911136a36\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his actions which include overseeing a failed first-year fees-free policy, longer intervention times in early childhood, the decision to strip\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca0563247e441aebde0eebe5ed45b95\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member has had her supplementaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220fb92539d9941f4945148a2d67d9691\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely stand by the introduction of fees-free. For the 80,000 students who haven\u2019t had to borrow for their first year of study, it has been a significant boon to them. They have certainly welcomed it, their parents have welcomed it, and I look forward to the National Party coming up and telling those students and those parents what their policy is, because, at the moment, they don\u2019t seem to have one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224fa886f5438f4bb0bada6be2b0698c3a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u002200a62ecf1f624d3dac111e68c5941245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200a62ecf1f624d3dac111e68c5941245\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222022d97bf3a54dbfb46e621bc55a05a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222022d97bf3a54dbfb46e621bc55a05a7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E A number of recent reports show how the New Zealand economy is in good shape amid global headwinds. The ANZ bank recently released its full-year results for 2019, with the acting CEO, Antonia Watson, saying, \u201CThe New Zealand economy, while growing at a slower pace, is fundamentally in good shape which is promising for businesses moving into 2020.\u201D She added, \u201CDemand for commodity exports is healthy, construction activity is firm, \u2026 lower interest rates and an easing NZD are supporting activity. Growth is expected to start lifting as easier monetary conditions make an impact.\u201D It is good to see further agreement that the New Zealand economy is indeed in good shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df9c3a05d014c5a84d57febf456a72e\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on how infrastructure investment is contributing to the economic activity? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b41da27d13e418f9b04c8430c7d31d8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The ANZ also recently released its ANZ anecdotes report. It said that infrastructure investment was supporting the mood in many areas of the country and the construction sector remains very busy in most areas. Specifically on infrastructure, the report said, \u201CThere is a large amount of road improvement under way and more is planned. This is being supported by the Provincial Growth Fund. Staff shortages are a limiting factor, but there are some reports of a big uptick in tenders for infrastructure work recently, particularly in new commercial premises, with the pipeline looking very solid into 2020.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253602b1aad784465a90213970e3d406f\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What other recent reports has he seen on the economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d04eb562e4045d6ac191400c1cf88a2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Reserve Bank has very recently released its November Monetary Policy Statement (MPS). The MPS reflects that New Zealand continues to have solid economic growth amid a slowing global economy. The report highlights strong exports, improving terms of trade, and strong wage growth, alongside some capacity constraints. The bank expects growth to increase next year above New Zealand\u2019s long-term trend growth rate. These are solid results amid the global headwinds that we face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed4699d89324821afd400eae2cbf914\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder if I can ask the Minister of Finance as to how conversations and discussions are going with his colleagues\u2014and ministerial colleagues, at that\u2014on future fiscal stimulus investments? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fff1f9c3e6a14d199707dfb60a057b2a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have had many interesting conversations with my ministerial colleagues, particularly in the build-up to Budget 2019, where we significantly increased operating and capital spending. I look forward to further conversations to identify opportunities for the Government to continue to contribute to strong, productive, sustainable growth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c95e83125044ac3910b27d54788c85c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00226931c21440654bf28c641feddeaed157\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226931c21440654bf28c641feddeaed157\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What responsibility, if any, does he take for the slowdown in the New Zealand economy since his Government took office? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022657f04c727654dd79cfc2f493ca9333a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022657f04c727654dd79cfc2f493ca9333a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I take responsibility for the New Zealand economy growing stronger than Australia, the UK, the US, Canada, Japan, the EU, and the OECD average. I also take responsibility for an economy where wages are rising at their fastest rate in a decade, and we have jobs growth even while the economy is close to full employment. I take responsibility for an economy where 81,000 jobs have been created. I take responsibility for the increase in wages in the economy. I reject the premise in the member\u2019s question. GDP is growing slower than it previously has, but it is growing, and it\u2019s forecast to grow. Jobs are being created, wages are rising, and the economy\u2019s in good shape. The member needs to cheer up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078df288c2f944d985d7ccd14ba0e0c8\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think growth fell from an annual rate of 3.2 percent in the June 2018 quarter to 2.1 percent in the latest quarter? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e85c8842a104b1b8f22dde2ab234c81\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve traversed many times in this House, the global economy has been slowing down. When the Mood of the Boardroom survey was undertaken, where the member joined me on the stage, most of the top concerns of those CEOs were international issues. What we do know is that growth rates in New Zealand continue to outstrip those of our trading partners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2ddaf088dd45bbadebf9fb6d4cab5b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So why does he blame international headwinds when, as the governor says, export prices have been \u201Crobust\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e0320f15874c129e065da3e8926cae\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Export prices have been good. There are a number of factors that weigh upon that, including things like swine fever and so on, in terms of what\u2019s improved our prices overseas. But the overall global environment is affecting confidence\u2014there is absolutely no doubt about that. That is something that is happening across the world, but what the member should do is focus on the positives in the New Zealand economy. We have debt at low levels, we have unemployment at historically low levels, we have exports going well, we have house prices moderating, and we have consents going up. This is an economy that\u2019s doing well. The member needs to look at the full glass. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268ce2fcb14bb490a970497db4ab39a96\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: If New Zealand\u2019s doing so well compared with the rest of the world, why has the net outflow of New Zealand citizens tripled since 2017 under his Government, and is that not one of the simplest measures of confidence in this Government\u2019s economic performance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022105fe0129c3d41f499bb97b64f6557d5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would note that, actually, it was in 2016, under the policies of the last Government, that net permanent and long-term migration of New Zealand citizens started to rise again. Yes, we have seen I believe it is around 13,000 New Zealand citizens moving away from New Zealand in the year to September, but I would note that under the previous Government, that figure averaged 19,000 a year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668a02e1e46f43029cc8f5c99153901f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister of Finance, is not the real test that against comparative economies, this country is growing faster than others as opposed to growing slower than others, with the administration that we inherited? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227358aca7d1484af980fcffa836ddca28\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. As I\u2019ve said consistently, over previous quarters in the last year, we\u2019ve been growing stronger than Australia, the UK, the US, Canada, Japan, the EU, and the OECD average. There is a global slowdown under way, but New Zealand is well positioned to deal with this. The economy is in good shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221563db2fded04896839ee563a3477ddf\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Cheer up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc985eb589d74941af74985dad52e3c9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! No, before the member\u2014I probably should have stopped Grant Robertson at the end of his primary answer, and, certainly, the interjections that I\u2019ve had immediately from my right and one from the back far corner telling me to have a different mood are out of order and will cease. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764eae4d0cbf4cfbb568c072c5df2088\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Which of those countries that he\u2019s just listed are growing faster than New Zealand on a per person basis? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30f0c71349c471abf4b541474374d82\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve discussed many times in this House, there are a number of ways of measuring per capita growth. What I do know is that on some measures we inherited, I think, us being in about thirtieth place, and we\u2019ve improved from there. I want to be absolutely clear that I would never, Mr Speaker, seek to judge the mood of you, but I do believe the member opposite needs to cheer up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273fa32910a8c4ccd88fb694ecd1f118a\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the member should cheer up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111cd1f8b60a4786b068863c24ef5922\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does it surprise him that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e084553e324c0d89b27c5d67e3543c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! No, the member will sit down. That\u2019s the end of the gratuitous insults to either of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddd50cdff5b4f3480c3b3994262da15\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does it surprise him that household spending has been soft, as the governor has indicated, when his Government has cancelled National\u2019s tax cuts, driven up fuel taxes, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209258154d81843809df08584aa977e4c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member needs to learn that he\u2019s allowed two legs to a supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa731b45a50455d9ffd6f11b2d87251\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The most recent consumer confidence surveys indicate that that\u2019s increasing and, certainly, this Government\u2019s extremely proud of the fact that we\u2019ve put into the pockets of low and middle income New Zealanders $75 per week, on average. That\u2019s where we needed to go with that, not untargeted tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692c8876ac9e4e2f9bf28a7cf72548f1\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You\u2019ve been in recent times very strict on there being only two legs to a question. I appreciate that\u2019s in the Standing Orders. Why doesn\u2019t that apply to Ministers when they\u2019re replying? Why do we have Ministers standing up and listing off what they perceive to be their long list of achievements, often quite unrelated to the question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9d213fc48046caa6015b1020bc5519\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would say the long list of things that are quite unrelated to the questions, which have become a habit of Ministers, are a result of the very, very broad primary questions which are now being asked by many members of the Opposition, which allow an extensive list to be given in answer because there\u2019s nothing specific about the questions. I think the member knows from his experience in the House that the rules for answers are different from the rules for questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288e56ef8adee4427878de7a9111c305b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002257a3c93f07044965a9863591d65fd210\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257a3c93f07044965a9863591d65fd210\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does she agree with Hon Phil Twyford, who said KiwiBuild homes are \u201Cgood quality, modest starter homes\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc8ba662ee2646758d64e8a29a0f10b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc8ba662ee2646758d64e8a29a0f10b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. KiwiBuild homes are subject to the same inspection and consenting processes as any other newly built homes in the implicit 10-year warranty under the Building Act in relation to building work and materials. If any defects in the building work emerge within 12 months of build completion, the builder has an obligation to fix them. While houses are being constructed to high standards, K\u0101inga Ora advises me that there have been issues raised by five homeowners. None of these are structural issues. It\u2019s not unusual for new builds to have issues following build completion, and the Building Research Association of New Zealand found in 2017 that the call-back rate on brand new houses was around 80 percent. While 222 KiwiBuild houses have been built, five homeowners have raised issues, but that\u2019s not acceptable, so we\u2019re fixing them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e57e45cba34f1aac2d01c741638296\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: What is the longest number of months that KiwiBuild has taken to remedy defects to the satisfaction of the homeowner? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b2a22a70514900928c714142b72448\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Of the five issues that have been raised with KiwiBuild, these have ranged from a few weeks to a few months while issues have been worked through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218758581ce04cf48ea1538604dd5763\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Is a quality assurance team included in the KiwiBuild reset announced in September? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdef48fd5d3d460395edbee662094243\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. K\u0101inga Ora is in the process of setting up a quality assurance team, and the quality assessor will be in the role by 25 November. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdd87e31554040aba649682ae692e06a\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Why has it taken two years for there to be a quality assurance team for KiwiBuild homes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c80242c70e49cba991e741d86fe279\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not the case. This is the K\u0101inga Ora quality assurance team. K\u0101inga Ora has only been in existence for a few months. KiwiBuild did have a quality assurance process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d8115a23ef4942b0f9cf6d128261e7\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if it\u2019s so important to have a quality assurance programme, then why wasn\u2019t that part of the KiwiBuild reset in September? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc9c132e91143e58153eb2480511cb6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I\u2019m as confused as the member asking the question is. There is a quality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022381298c530bd4f40819eac1200d59604\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014absolutely. Most confused Minister around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf5a4d252fac4aff99963340e493cbdd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Mr Brownlee, I think that\u2019s not that helpful for the member sitting in front of you, as well as for the Minister. So can the member just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc921613e4b402eb252ca943e361ae1\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was a simple affirmation of the Minister\u2019s statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb928b50d81481aa0ced5ee22a6048a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he just indicated that the member sitting in front of him was confused, and that was not helpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b5bdf0740347d1ba8df81d30d2b274\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Quality assurance is important to us. That is why K\u0101inga Ora is setting up a quality assurance unit within it, and there will be an assessor in employment by 25 November. I would make the point that as a Government, we take the quality seriously. I find it a bit galling to be lectured by members of a party that presided over $400 million worth of botched repairs in Canterbury that we\u2019ve had to fix up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f30ae72c5449ea8b111c1006803bd3\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Since the KiwiBuild reset was first announced in January this year, then why are KiwiBuild buyers still waiting for a quality assurance unit to be set up? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aadd63680b544a1828649e84a7b78d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: There are quality assurance processes in place. There always have been with this. I remind the member: 222 houses built; five people have raised complaints. They have been dealt with. I would note to that member that it\u2019s very easy not to have complaints when you don\u2019t build any houses, as that party did when it was in Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246448c54b0d54f2cad062963f718d25a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002291092e8b282843db8a034091a5f0648d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291092e8b282843db8a034091a5f0648d\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: What action, if any, has he taken following Local Government New Zealand\u2019s call for legislative change to ban retail sales of fireworks? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002295c56fe1314e4a6d88f9c98199e35da0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295c56fe1314e4a6d88f9c98199e35da0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E In 2007, the firework regulations were tightened. The evidence shows that this was successful in sharply reducing the number of fireworks-related injuries. Fire-related incidents vary from year to year, but the overall trend is also down, even more so on a population basis. I have not seen evidence warranting further regulation at this stage. However, we are, as always, open to listening to the evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221344427cf98043889278d92ea8688422\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Doesn\u2019t the fact that since the Government last looked at this 12 years ago and we\u2019ve seen 4,000 injuries and $3.8 million of ACC claims since then demonstrate that another look is needed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bbbe643d94341508146c3c26b8a7474\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Ten years ago, the average number of ACC claims was around 400 a year. In 2018, it was down to 272. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bbcab6e45bb4bb98c3a715e81c41044\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the New Zealand fire service that the number of fireworks-related incidents are up in recent years, and isn\u2019t it the fact that we are still seeing our maungas burnt, our animals are being injured\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a95fcfa7e11c4615b4bc2bc769fb2786\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member has now had three legs. The Minister may address any two if he wants, and only has to address one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f054f03b5b54dc98fc461c359a8482f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t agree that there is a trend of increasing serious incidents resulting from fireworks. I further note that there are divided views around this issue around New Zealand. I know that the Auckland Council favours more restrictions, but I would note that they and other larger cities can have public firework displays that are not available in rural areas, and we\u2019ve got to govern for all of the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226659824e56d242bfbb821bf185b01080\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that Auckland Council banned the use of fireworks in public spaces, including their maunga, but this year their precious maunga still burnt, and the council says the only way to stop it is for central government to act? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b1c57bfdb4a469f9e61eaf630839f67\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to remind that member that he needs to take more care in drafting his supplementaries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f4c9b22954405a93d4a8df0b25dce7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those issues do point to the need, perhaps, for more enforcement of the existing law, but, as the member points out in his question, the behaviour that is being complained of is already illegal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd42674ad8e342b39e90ef43a8e30252\u0022\u003EGareth Hughes\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the New Zealand Police, who, in a submission released today, said, \u201CThe retail sale of fireworks to the general public represents a risk to the wellbeing of New Zealanders. Banning the retail sale of fireworks would likely reduce harm to the community.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5c48ebe9a8344949501890c02062cab\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d say two things in response. Of course no one wants to see anyone injured, but we do need to keep this in perspective. I would note that ACC claims for this are substantially down, whereas in some other areas of endeavour which we allow\u2014and I\u2019m not suggesting they should be banned\u2014like scooters, we\u2019ve got rising ACC things. We just can\u2019t protect everyone from every harm. I would say as a personal statement, which is not the Government\u2019s position, I personally would be willing to consider moving fireworks sales\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022059612d29d194e83b2c5464974c774d9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da90f88c7b0a407781c9a0f5acc9efa2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e53fdd2da5e48db82f3b8124a0b31ca\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t make personal statements when you\u2019re answering questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ed5f8c1ac841c9b29609808a455746\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not a Minister. Stop interjecting in the second person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227769c22fd1f940549ed0adb1512bf541\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking as a Minister, although the Government has not got a position on this, I would be willing to consider whether we should move private fireworks sales to Matariki in June, which would be better for families. It would address many of the issues that members of the public raise. But the Government\u2019s got no position on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a94b9db3c2b4938ae90090173a43a74\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori-works\u2014M\u0101ori-works. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9ad5aa396c4da3b79d0e8b58fece50\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Has \u201CVesuvius\u201D stopped? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e4bdf2bddb44ce09b1c288e40810152\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221758df57dcef46feae05749e84c3f1ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221758df57dcef46feae05749e84c3f1ba\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her statements relating to employment initiatives for young people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fecc5b66f3b04dd6ba5f87bf8a8f50f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fecc5b66f3b04dd6ba5f87bf8a8f50f9\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular Mana in Mahi, which I\u2019m sure my colleague Minister Jackson will elaborate on later, but also the initiatives we have invested in to support young people with drivers\u2019 licences, including the partnership between the New Zealand Transport Agency, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), and Oranga Tamariki to provide driver-licence support for up to 2,500 young people over the next three years; the partnership between Auckland Business Chamber, Auckland secondary schools, and MSD to provide driver-licence support products to secondary school students in 20-plus schools; the partnership between MSD and New Zealand Police to refer young people found with licence infringements to driver-licence service providers; and the general MSD training for work and employment placement service programmes, which now have a mandatory requirement to support clients with drivers\u2019 licensing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211596ba2378b4d40afeb7f91445a9273\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she say yesterday that\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cthe previous Government didn\u2019t see fit to invest in drivers\u2019 licences for young people\u201D when last year her department published a positive evaluation of the National Government\u2019s work on drivers\u2019 licences, and does she intend to correct the record to state that this Government is following in National\u2019s footsteps when it comes to driver licensing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022946da45d16624b4e944913b8cb8e3bac\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Debates in question time can become very robust. The reality is that we\u2019re investing more into driver licensing than what the previous Government did. I read out many of the initiatives that we are currently engaged in. All of those\u2014including the fact that it\u2019s now mandatory for MSD to provide support for clients to get into driver licensing\u2014started under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64a0fa6104f4843921b7fdd84c97ac7\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister correct her answer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc42a387416a4cddbd9b7af32e86843f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the debate yesterday, as it always is, was robust in the House. The reality is that we have invested more. I will say that the previous Government did do something in this space\u2014that\u2019s my correction\u2014but we are doing more than they ever did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef16bdbfd93147019fed3922ddc770bf\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that the $50 million investment in Mana in Mahi is money well-spent, and, if so, why do almost one in five participants end up back on benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225415554a2350474b8d6aa6316bc76912\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to leave this to Minister Jackson, but I will respond to her question. To date, 417 young people have engaged in Mana in Mahi. The member is right in terms of the fact that to date, 68 percent have stuck with the placements. That\u2019s a really good result, in our minds. Out of the 32 percent who haven\u2019t continued, half of them\u2014so 16 percent in total\u2014returned to benefit. The rest didn\u2019t; they went on to other options. I do want to also let that member know that of those who have participated in Mana in Mahi\u2014and this is mostly targeting 18- to 24-year-olds\u201439 percent of them were on benefit for over a year before they engaged with this programme, and 10 percent were on benefit for four years or more before they engaged in this programme. So I think, given those statistics and results, we are doing a good job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11c92fd1261404aa237949d8c4d7de4\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How is an increase of 5,500 young people on the dole delivering for\u2014and I quote the Minister\u2014\u201CNew Zealanders who need support\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204aee8f1151c496a9187ce404da15f26\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said a number of times in this House, we have to keep the numbers in perspective. We\u2019ve got one of the lowest unemployment rates that we have had in the last 10 years\u2014all three of the lowest unemployment rates were under us\u2014at 4.2 percent. With regards to young people not in education and employment, we saw with the most recent release around what\u2019s happening with unemployment that there are less NEETs now than what there were previously. With regards to those that are currently on benefit, this Government is doing everything that we can to help them realise their potential in a constructive way, which of course means also supporting them to upskill and train so they can take up employment in the jobs that exist now and the jobs that will exist going into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227962dfd4a9a24657b4b8438d87285972\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why has she delivered over 10 times as many young people on to the dole as into Mana in Mahi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0495a78bd2d4615bb57c7b44190f0d2\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The member uses numbers in a funny way\u2014in a very, very funny way. I think that the statistics that I talked about are with respect to the young people that are engaging in Mana in Mahi to date\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c066d18854dd46b8ac71bcef91b4ad9f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787919082cb1409b92a67e3b4c73251a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the fact that there were a large number that had been on the benefit for a certain period of time, but the success that we\u2019re seeing is really positive. I will also say that the commitment has been for 2,000 young people in Mana in Mahi, that we made at the Budget. We\u2019re already ahead of our target, and we are very proud of the results that we\u2019re seeing to date. Can we do better? We always think we can do better, and we will continue to stick on that path to supporting young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f8b951bfc0a455fb401eafd899f8a33\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister rather we don\u2019t use numbers any more in our questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d8512bb78b4bf1acdff5ec68ebd71e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just trying to work out what I should do\u2014I mean, the member knows that question\u2019s out of order. The member knows that the Minister doesn\u2019t have responsibility for the Opposition\u2019s questions, and I just can\u2019t understand why he\u2019s deliberately so disorderly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad2d4d6dd3d4a38b2a9466b89f4c5c8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. At the start of the supplementary before mine, the Minister said that, well, she wasn\u2019t going to respond to the questions, as if she didn\u2019t actually need to, and I interjected to that effect and you told me off. It was entirely unreasonable, in my view, with the greatest respect to you. I\u2019ve then asked, I think, a perfectly legitimate question because the Minister, in her answer, has, effectively, said she\u2019s not too keen on numbers in the questions, and I thought it was right\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228657407027b04ab182a3657d7228379d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No, I\u2019ve had enough. [Interruption] Order! I\u2019ve had enough. The member knows that he will resume his seat when I stand up. He will start off by withdrawing and apologising for not doing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5c23e057669452da86177e1af2460e0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf567ada4a64b189c424ae115061b9f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dealing with the substantive issue, I drew his attention to the fact that he was interjecting in the second person repeatedly, and I think the member understands what that means. I called him to order for that earlier on, not for anything else, on that occasion\u2014I mean, obviously, the member has been disorderly on other occasions earlier in question time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dfb6bd744394dbfb6c2e3397839e3ac\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf5404db12f499a9aa1f01fe65f4872\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to remind the member that he\u2019s testing my patience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d9e057740b041edbc2d91a8b9d05255\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I would just ask you to go and reflect on the tape when you go back, as I know you do, because it does just rather seem that your left ear is rather more acute at picking these things up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022684fe9c5ee4841eb8946796438b5c76d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. The member will leave the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b23fe9f1f3384584bbec7a37aa09e837\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The answer that came from the Minister seemed to attack the Opposition for using numbers in questions. Now, to ask her \u201CDoes she not like having statistics put in front of her?\u201D when she has such an important portfolio that affects the lives of so many New Zealanders I don\u2019t think is at all unreasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252cb12a03d50484e9020f9869a3d3465\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 9, Dr Shane Reti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e644415d01d2427e86b1e7be26d5aa8c\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, supplementary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d0031c7f69e4a13a08a663175d6abbd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, too late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b9ca66a95f3470fbec00b96ea1e810f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022f477b8320c1248b9b334b2203834ff38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f477b8320c1248b9b334b2203834ff38\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and actions in relation to the Fees Free policy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002208a28c933f1042ecbf8ad4694605071b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208a28c933f1042ecbf8ad4694605071b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely, yes. I stand by the policy that has meant around 80,000 New Zealanders haven\u2019t had to borrow for their tertiary fees for their first year of study or training. That\u2019s a sizeable chunk off the cost that New Zealanders face when embarking on post-school education and training, and it means that once they\u2019ve finished, they are better placed to get on with life without a huge debt burden weighing them down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a1f2219afc4259acca36ff5918721a\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Did more first-year university students fail all of their courses last year after fees-free than before fees-free, as stated in written questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e895fe6dc50479b91e5fdca7a7e1008\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think what the member is alluding to is that it will show that, actually, overall, the number of students who passed their course versus failed their course compared to the previous year suggests that there has been a slight reduction in the number of people who have failed their first-year course. I don\u2019t have the sector-specific breakdown of that, but it suggests, overall, actually, in terms of pass and fail, the rates are broadly the same as they were in previous years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd6ef2ce740a4a46a2b41fdf63199df8\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: In response to that question, did, in 2017, 990 first-year, fees-free students fail, and in first-year fees-free, 1,080 failed their first-year papers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e93a48e7694c7f909c36c46dcd1a31\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, it\u2019s about the same, and, actually, if you look at overall numbers of people participating in fees-free, to include all of the sectors, in fact, it\u2019s a slight reduction in the number of people failing their first-year course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a231515b6cf4931b43dfa860ed1fe62\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Did he give consideration in deciding the fees-free policy to make making the final year free, rather the first? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ed52382c64452e9b689ea5b5a507b5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we did. It would be a very university-centric view, and it would mean that a number of people would be excluded from the fees-free policy, particularly those who are undertaking shorter-form courses in polytechnics or institutes of technology or private training establishments or w\u0101nanga, and it would, of course, have a detrimental impact on those undertaking apprenticeships or industry training study, which is the reason why we went to first-year fees-fee\u2014because it meant that everybody, a much larger proportion of students, would actually benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8b66eb4bfe24fea9ace18460382dc93\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Did more first-year M\u0101ori students fail at least one course after fees-free last year than before fees-free, as stated in written questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022424b8de7ef2a4642b5261d60aa83fe7d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, the overall number of people who have failed a course\u2014now, bearing in mind that a course and a programme are different things, so people might undertake a number of different courses. Based on that metric, unfortunately, I would be in those statistics, had I had I had my first year free, because at my first year at university, I failed one of my papers because I didn\u2019t actually show up to any of the classes in it, and I didn\u2019t withdraw in time to get my money back. Many people will actually complete a programme of study but may fail one course or may not withdraw from one course in time to get the refund. That doesn\u2019t mean that they\u2019re failing their programme of study. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bfb9bb513a4881980d4a06b38bdb57\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I confirm from the Minister that the reason why the third year wasn\u2019t chosen over the first year, which was, was that the third year would be snobbish and elitist, and that\u2019s why we didn\u2019t go down that course? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5daa9c0c268462998bf02835c176fc5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, making the third year free rather than the first year free would be a very university-centric view of fees-free education. We want to make sure that those who are undertaking training in things like the trades, for example, benefit from this policy, and that\u2019s why we went with the first year free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abdb29e08a844d41b1cc36b15f0e2c23\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What is the total underspend in the fees-free policy this year to date? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65d95a8b304496795d918abddd25a46\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, that\u2019s subject to change because the numbers do move around a little bit, and we\u2019ll release those details once they are finalised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd631aabb35042808e615168dac4f16f\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is the stated $197 million underspend in fees-free part of a deliberate policy to underspend in fees-free to fund the reform of vocational education? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed2788239504f6fbae555f3fbb3ec6f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No. What it does recognise is that for several years pre-dating this Government, the polytech sector has been on a downwards trajectory in terms of the number of people who are undertaking study or training in polytechs. Whilst it has levelled out, that has not rebounded. Partly, that\u2019s a result of a very strong labour market at the moment. There are very attractive job opportunities for people, so they\u2019re going directly into those rather than into study. But it has put our polytech system under significant financial pressure, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why the Government is undertaking that reform programme. We\u2019re not willing to abandon our regional polytechs to financial rack and ruin, which was what was happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d73ec8c031994fc9b93d05642a8aa691\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u0022493dfe1876fa4a3598b65651c614ff9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022493dfe1876fa4a3598b65651c614ff9a\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What recent evidence has she seen of a growing workforce in building and construction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022afe3279715b14fa1961059a86a444506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afe3279715b14fa1961059a86a444506\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is investing in apprenticeships, and I was honoured last week to congratulate Mr Tiorangi Smith of SLC Builders for being apprentice No. 13,000 for New Zealand\u2019s largest apprenticeship provider, the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation (BCITO). Mr Smith, like thousands of other apprentices actively training with BCITO, has made a great choice to train as a tradie in the face of the huge pipeline of work that we have. We inherited a large deficit in this area, and Tiorangi is one of thousands of Kiwis who will contribute to building the homes, the hospitals, and the schools that we need. Supporting apprenticeships is just one way the Government is ensuring we have the skilled workforce we need in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224425cd2b273f416b92aa56e0022103d8\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government supporting training in building and construction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263ad67da387f404d96f0d2fc9c6f91b6\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: We need tradies of all types from all different backgrounds to help deliver the $43.5 billion of projected construction activity expected over the next five years. That\u2019s why I\u2019m delighted to state a few numbers. The number of our M\u0101ori apprentices in active training with BCITO has increased 11.6 percent since this Government came into office, the number of women apprentices has gone up 42 percent, and the number of Pacific apprentices is up by an impressive 46 percent with BCITO in the last two years. I congratulate BCITO on their progress. Clearly, the Government\u2019s support for the trades is helping to see more women, more Pacific, and more M\u0101ori pick up the tools in record numbers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e125d305fa5f49afb5f78b4ae3ced9c9\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: What other ways is the Government helping grow the building and construction workforce? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272325bb032984412aa8a6f2c6848453d\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: We know that within the next five years, we\u2019re going to need an additional 80,000 workers in building and construction. That\u2019s why the Government has looked at tackling the issue head-on through the Construction Sector Accord. We have a construction skills action plan, we\u2019re committed to a centre of excellence for vocational education in construction, and the Prime Minister has also created the Prime Minister\u2019s Vocational Excellence Award, which acknowledges our best and brightest going into the trades with an award of $2,000 through our high schools right across Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223eb8ccdb9a4b4e98a16243f3e8f2a513\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf7feafe4b240bdafb123f60d041c24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf7feafe4b240bdafb123f60d041c24\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Is he concerned that visa processing delays are having a negative impact on the tourism industry in New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4afbb90d45e451f86506fafd84cb538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4afbb90d45e451f86506fafd84cb538\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s no evidence to suggest that the current visitor visa processing times have any impact on tourism numbers or on the tourism industry. For the benefit of the member and the House, Immigration New Zealand is currently processing 92.4 percent of low-risk visitor visa applications within 15 days and 85 percent of high-risk applications within 30 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceedacc3f70f49d2af35adf13f1ed695\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he requested Immigration New Zealand undertake an assessment of the negative-impact economic costs that visa processing delays are having on the tourism industry; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864b0355b29b403b96b6b29ceaec6f5b\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, because, as I said in the primary answer\u2014the member, obviously, wasn\u2019t listening\u2014there is no evidence that visa processing times are having an impact on the tourism industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e0f42f63d14cafbec753bc98c3a351\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Interesting. Why are tourism operators losing significant revenue as a result of visa processing delays despite an $11.7 million injection into Immigration New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246840fa4203441ad9eaadcc96c7141c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I\u2019m going to ask the member to rephrase the question without the unauthenticated bit at the beginning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfab2b9209c40b682585c2261220987\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has the injection of $11.7 million to Immigration New Zealand to do with this very issue\u2014why hasn\u2019t it reduced tourism operators\u2019 loss of revenue? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222370d5cab7704b7f89d98a1516fc2b3f\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I refute the assertion in the member\u2019s question. There\u2019s no evidence that tourism operators are losing revenue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996ae02e63f14ee8abc36d7efd7c0fc0\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why are applicants for visitor visas from South-east Asia waiting up to 30 days in the system before being allocated to an immigration officer for assessment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a8435dc95b4bbca73c07a2a0a2f45e\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Visitor visa processing times are actually in line with the Australian processing times, and that is because at this time of year, it is visitor peak season. So what I recommend to people is that if they\u2019re planning to come to New Zealand, they prepare and they get their application in early. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e666580527c746df83d0dcd33e530758\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Are Immigration New Zealand prioritising visa applications based on country of origin of the applicant rather than the timing of the application? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd45066c03e94eb7b219bc0e20495bce\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: No. Immigration New Zealand prioritises applications based on risk, and, as I said in my primary answer, low-risk applications\u201492.4 of those are processed within 15 days, and 85 percent of the high-risk applications are processed within 30 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7d9d8512f8d4e5f8d9e93fd78ac85e2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00225585e04222a54be7899a7da8f42f6615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225585e04222a54be7899a7da8f42f6615\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Employment: He aha ng\u0101 r\u012Bpoata hou kua kitea e ia m\u014D te kaupapa Mana in Mahi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E[What recent reports has he seen on Mana in Mahi?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022e825535c3efb45958b19fa732644f373\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e825535c3efb45958b19fa732644f373\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen reports that show that at the end of October, we\u2019ve had 417 participants start Mana in Mahi employment since the programme started. Now, that\u2019s more than a third\u201439 percent\u2014of our people who have started in Mana in Mahi, and they\u2019ve already been on a benefit for 12 months or more, with 10 percent of people having been on a benefit for more than four years. For these people, Mana in Mahi is transforming their lives and reconnecting them back to a lifelong pathway of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c6a8e90cd347b89229087f309c04f2\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: He aha ng\u0101 ripoata kua kitea e ia m\u014D te heke haere o ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata kei raro i te kaupapa nei, Mana in Mahi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E[What reports has he seen on the attrition rate of those participating in Mana in Mahi?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb36e16bd2ab4e93b2d71cb225fbfd9d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. We always knew that there would be some challenges. That\u2019s been pointed out in the House, I think, over the last few weeks, but for some of those who have participated in Mana in Mahi\u2014especially considering more than a third had already spent more than a year on a benefit\u2014it has been a great experience, which is why I\u2019m really proud of the efforts being made by Work and Income, employers, and participants, which has resulted in only 16 percent, as Minister Sepuloni said, of participants exiting Mana in Mahi and returning to the benefits. I want to reassure the House that Work and Income continues to actively help those who have returned to benefits with their job-seeking and to support them with an alternative pathway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022770694d512104c6d89bc14b938deb153\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Kua kite ia i ng\u0101 ripoata m\u014D ng\u0101 momo ahumahi e whakamahi ana i a r\u0101tau n\u014D Mana in Mahi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E[Has he seen any reports on the industries that are employing people through Mana in Mahi?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed00beda95804dca9211e0fe6014db35\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: To the question, I\u2019ve seen reports that alongside our more traditional industries such as building and construction, manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, and fishing, Mana in Mahi has also opened up opportunities in other industries such as food, manufacturing, electricity, gas, water and waste services, healthcare and social assistance, information media and telecommunications, and tiling and carpeting services. In fact, 238 employers are now involved in Mana in Mahi, the majority of which are small to medium sized businesses\u2014exactly as we intended. These industries are not only offering long-term employment pathways for our people participating in Mana in Mahi; they\u2019re also investing in their skills and development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f31c1e34ad1847838e29729f8fdc92a0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister as to whether he recommends Mana in Mahi to certain political parties whose politicians will need a job shortly? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edd0051901a42719af05361af64561b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, I didn\u2019t catch the end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1f576532b840a19bf430ec0681f79f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll repeat it. Could I ask the Minister as to whether or not he would recommend to political parties the concept of Mana in Mahi, because some of them will need a job soon? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca5c7292bb00404f9bbda69b1a6c058b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229375d703b985442d97cb0316c4a073e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You, Paula. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c75daa70736b4f8e961fec4ff5f7d756\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll see, sweetheart\u2014we\u2019ll see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022730e619630ce411daf57a770287e7610\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh look, don\u2019t encourage him, please. I mean, it\u2019s hard enough trying\u2014I think the member knows that dealing with the longest-serving member of the House, at times, is somewhat of a challenge for Speakers. Predecessors of mine have had similar challenges with the member, and he does not need winding up from my left. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ddfd2fbbdc4d80b7da79d216ebb878\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports on the outcomes for people who have completed Mana in Mahi? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b083836d4144f7bfd4ec7ee0cfbd9e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. I\u2019ve seen numerous reports of people who have completed their Mana in Mahi placement. As an example, a young M\u0101ori man who is 18 years of age\u2014he came on to job seeker support in mid-2018 and had advised that he was interested in dairy farming or construction work. After one month, he was matched through a work broker to a small construction company and became one of the earliest placements in the Mana in Mahi programme. He has not only maintained good attendance as well as remaining in employment but he has also completed a level 2 course with the intent of working towards a New Zealand Certificate in Carpentry. He\u2019s been enjoying the training aspects of the position, and his employer has commented on the client\u2019s growing level of responsibilities in his mahi as a result of his training and sustained employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d67822064f241f09e7fd412c6ea0c39\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d952b377f3d495190e46dd3e8fb39a1\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u00224f834e35651e4ed9aeb13e6b0611cac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f834e35651e4ed9aeb13e6b0611cac8\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWell, there was no doubt about it. We already knew that this Government was lazy. Outsourcing more than 200 working groups\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f497e3dc132492db4bba9fe4fac1937\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: 300.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac767cf547584fe48db9346a50a889c6\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: 300\u2014sorry. It\u2019s 300, says leader Simon Bridges. So the reality is we knew they hadn\u2019t done the work in Opposition, had no idea what to do once they got into Government, and outsourced the job. That\u2019s what we knew. What we didn\u2019t know, I think, until recently, was just how arrogant they\u2019ve got so quickly\u2014so quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EWe were told by Newstalk ZB\u2019s Chris Lynch that, actually, they want to drop the Prime Minister\u2019s monthly slot. She simply turned around, and the reason given was she already had done too many interviews and our Canterbury audience is not worth her time. That\u2019s what she actually told them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EAnd then, of course, yesterday, we saw from Chris Lynch himself that he said\u2014and I quote the whole thing\u2014\u201CHer press secretary recently told our producer Nellie that the [Prime Minister] won\u2019t come on the show unless there is \u2018something like another March 15th\u2019\u2014I kid you not. Nellie was so shocked she repeated his words back to him.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da907fb701534718bcf664f6344a4016\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Pathetic. What a lightweight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d982d8f260e4b97b942945a4a06508e\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peters, why don\u2019t you take advice from the State Services Commissioner\u2014who I find incredible, for two years\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe01e60d28de440b9e52ac73aba08cfe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! Both of you. Now, there is a matter currently before the court, and it\u2019s not going to be referred to as part of this general debate. I am sometimes slightly behind the times, but I have been following the newspapers, and I know exactly what the member was referring to, and she will cease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3cae75a54df49f79dccfbf9c4dc3b14\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Peters, why don\u2019t you take some advice from the State Services Commissioner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a01993c6adc4632bc1b9f4de2ba2f81\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. She cannot begin by saying, \u201Cwhy don\u2019t you take some advice\u201D. I know she\u2019s not very experienced, but at least she should have learnt something about this House\u2019s procedures. You can\u2019t\u2014you\u2014use the word \u201Cyou\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ef148b3ff24c48a5a5b111473035d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, Mr Peters\u2014and the comment was in order, in that she used \u201Cyou\u201D in the sense of \u201Cone\u201D, which I have indicated in a recent ruling is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf51425fb6b40848ef8287f078baa77\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a980dd491af746a4b568e6082c22a1a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I could do without the help, thank you. But what I have also made clear, Mr Peters, is where something is part of a debate and it is very clearly directed to a member opposite as part of that debate\u2014in this case, it was \u201CMr Peters, you\u201D\u2014I have indicated that I have loosened off some of the rules in that area\u2014not as part of question time; part of debate. It was something that was dealt with at the Business Committee by way of discussion. We\u2019ll go back to the Hon Paula Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2120a94d248407e990d97e5b1a6e1b4\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Back to the debate, where I was suggesting, Mr Peters, that one looks at the State Services Commissioner, who has had to stop an investigation into the Treasury leaks because of botching up yet another one that was happening. The arrogance, I think, from the Government is pretty stark as one sees that the Canterbury audience isn\u2019t even important enough for the Prime Minister to actually go out and do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EBut what we\u2019ve seen in the last two weeks is more work done by the Opposition in the last two years\u2014with minimal resources and minimal staff\u2014than a Government that has the whole Public Service at its disposal and a whole lot of people that can do things for it. So what we\u2019ve seen is, actually\u2014whether it goes to the fabulous discussion document put out on social services, welfare, and our children; whether it goes to the education document from the Hon Nikki Kaye that we\u2019ve seen today\u2014more work and more ideas from the Opposition than one can see from three Government parties that can\u2019t get themselves together, outsource to more than 300 working groups, and are still unable to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThe list, of course\u2014and we saw the Prime Minister do a little video of can she, in two minutes, get through all that they have done. Let me, for the next one minute and 42 seconds, get through all that they haven\u2019t done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve introduced seven new taxes, despite saying that there\u2019d be none. Seven out of nine child poverty indicators have actually increased. Failed to deliver, of course, 1,800 new police. Failing to deliver 100 percent qualified early childhood education teachers. The number of people in motels has increased threefold, despite saying there\u2019d be absolutely none. Failing to deliver a surgical mesh register, which has actually been promised by this Government. Failing to strengthen the Official Information Act\u2014because, of course, this is the most open and the most transparent Government that has ever been seen. Embarrassed into action\u2014no, let\u2019s say it: embarrassed into action\u2014which they were on cancer, by, of course, National and all the work that had gone on by this Opposition that does more work than the lazy Government does on any day of the week. Failing to increase the age of breast screening to 74 years old, like it was promised but not delivered. Fees-free, of course, is still resulting in fewer students studying, not more. Failing to reduce the gender pay gap\u2014and, in fact, my colleague Denise Lee is going to get up a bit later, and she\u2019ll actually talk to you all a bit about how that\u2019s going with the legislation that simply gets stalled. A cannabis referendum that, of course, won\u2019t be binding because the lazy Government has failed to do the work early enough to bring it to the House so that the public get a true say. Has not actually introduced volunteer rural constabulary like they promised. Job growth has halved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022591ce35f03e6499288f2e8f0f0d633d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022591ce35f03e6499288f2e8f0f0d633d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d76f524ac9a948ffb438f7c55b541eae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d76f524ac9a948ffb438f7c55b541eae\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E You can see why the National Party is so attached to their attack advertisements, because it\u2019s the only thing that they have. Today they apparently launched their education policy, which Paula Bennett, the deputy leader, couldn\u2019t bring herself to talk about. She instead devoted her time to criticising the Government\u2019s working groups and task forces, which, actually, if you read the National Party\u2019s education discussion document, seem to have been the source of inspiration for most of their new ideas, because they don\u2019t seem to have any of their own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to education, I will put this Government\u2019s track record against that Opposition\u2019s track record any day of the week. It is going take us some time to undo the nine years of damage that was done to our education system. The fact that, during National\u2019s time in office, we saw a 40 percent reduction in the number of people training to be teachers\u2014that is going to take some time for us to turn around, but we are working hard on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe fact that, during National\u2019s time in office, they did not invest in making sure that our schools were adequately prepared for roll growth. They were happy to see the population continue to grow and were happy to take the extra tax that went with that, but they didn\u2019t spend that tax revenue on actually making sure New Zealand had the infrastructure to cope with that population growth\u2014and we see that in our school system, where hundreds of schools up and down the country were already overcrowded when we became the Government, and more were projected to become overcrowded. That\u2019s why our Government has put the single biggest injection of funding into school property of any New Zealand Government, because we want to get ahead of that growth curve so we don\u2019t leave the disastrous legacy that we inherited from that last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe are unapologetic about breaking down financial barriers to participation in education at every level. We see that in our school system, where we are increasing school funding so that the parents aren\u2019t put under constant pressure to pay donations to schools. We have scrapped the fees for NCEA and scholarship exams, resulting in, quite literally, hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders being better off, including a significant number who completed their qualifications in past years but never had that qualification awarded, because they could not pay the fee. They now get that qualification awarded. They can hold their head high and have the qualification that they earned, without the financial penalty that was stopping them from getting that. I\u2019m very proud of that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe stand by our policy of removing the financial barriers to participation in post-school education and training. We are not going to sign up to the elitist view of the world being promoted on the other side of the House that it should only go to third-year university students. We think that those undertaking trades training and applied courses that are less than three years long should benefit from it as well; unlike the members opposite, who don\u2019t seem to know what their policy on it is, because they seem to say, \u201COh, we\u2019ll shift it to the third year but maybe we won\u2019t do it at all, maybe we\u2019ll spend it on something else, maybe we\u2019ll use it to build more roads, maybe we\u2019ll use it to employ more teachers.\u201D, bearing in mind that they promised at least $800 million more worth of teachers to improve teacher-student ratios. Where those teachers are going to come from, of course they\u2019re silent on all of that because we know they didn\u2019t train enough teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis Government is making good progress in tackling the legacy of neglect that we inherited. We\u2019re going to build more schools and classrooms for 100,000 additional students, because that\u2019s how many we know we\u2019re going to have to have over the next 10 years. We\u2019ve already put aside a huge amount of money to get ahead of that curve, and we\u2019re going to continue to do that so that, unlike the last Government, we don\u2019t have to play catch-up all of the time; we\u2019re actually going to make sure that we\u2019re building those schools and classrooms ahead of when they\u2019re needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThere is so much happening in education to be proud of. We\u2019ve made New Zealand history a compulsory part of the New Zealand school curriculum, something that parents have been asking for for some time; New Zealanders have wanted to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhat do we see from the members opposite when they\u2019re talking about returning to failed policies? More charter schools; back on that agenda under that Government, because it worked so well. They seem to think that having kids working and learning in shipping containers is an adequate standard of education\u2014that\u2019s what we saw under the charter school model, and that\u2019s not something that we\u2019re going to tolerate on this side of the House under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe want a quality public education system that delivers for every New Zealander\u2014that is what this Government is focused on delivering. We\u2019ve got a proud track record, we\u2019re just getting under way, and there\u2019s a whole lot more to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1116f9eef254be89ebe74cd1522b29d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1116f9eef254be89ebe74cd1522b29d\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I\u2019m pleased to take a call in this general debate. The first thing that I would say is: you know they\u2019re worried. You know they\u2019re worried when they spend most of their general debate speech talking about the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EFirstly, the last Government had a very different set of circumstances. We had the global financial recession. We had the Canterbury earthquakes. But despite that, we saw results in education. We saw achievement be lifted. We saw M\u0101ori and Pasifika students having higher achievement. We saw the largest ever capital infrastructure investment cleaning up a decade of neglect under the last Labour Government. But we are looking to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIt is the case that this Government has had more opportunities than ever before, but they have broken a number of promises. We have a website where people can go and have a look at that, at www.laboursreportcard.co.nz. The reality is that they promised a whole lot and they haven\u2019t delivered\u2014whether it\u2019s early learning, 100 percent qualified, whether it\u2019s every child having digital devices, or whether it\u2019s career plans in schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re proud of as well is that today we released over 100 policy proposals and questions in education, because we want to engage with the sector. We want to engage with parents and principals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut what we also know is that on the other side, in a number of the key areas in education, they have mucked it up\u2014whether it\u2019s a flawed donation scheme that people see as confusing and inequitable or whether it\u2019s the learning support roll-out that is seen as flawed and not getting to the children that need it most. So what we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve tried to work collaboratively, where possible, in areas like NCEA and Tomorrow\u2019s Schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut we have, we believe, some of the best solutions to tackle those long-term issues for New Zealand. Whether it is investing earlier, in the first 1,000 days of life\u2014Nic Willis has done amazing work on looking at enhancing screening. Whether it is ensuring that we tackle those short-term supply issues in early learning\u2014we\u2019ve got some positive policies and ideas in this area. Whether it is ensuring that we do crack down where there are serious licensing issues, because parents deserve to have safety when it comes to their small children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019re also very focused on the quality of teaching and learning. What we saw with Tomorrow\u2019s Schools, in our view, is too much of a focus on the administration. We\u2019ve seen it in vocational learning, this sort of ability of the Minister to be very focused on building the centre and focused on officials. When it comes to that area of our document in teaching and learning, we are unashamedly saying that as a nation we need to lift the value of teachers in society. So we are talking about greater incentives to be teachers. We\u2019re talking about greater incentives for teachers to come back into the profession. We also have proposals in there around reforming teacher training, because what we know, when we look at all of the OECD work, is that high-performing systems are rigorous around their selection criteria for teachers. We know, whenever I sit down with a principal, often they\u2019ll say to me, \u201CNikki, look, there are some people that don\u2019t have the disposition to teach.\u201D We\u2019ve got some policies in the document that are looking at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe unashamedly want to have a debate about our curriculum and the curriculum resources, whether that is the amazing work that the House of Science does in Tauranga\u2014and thank you very much, Chris Duggan, for all that you do\u2014whether it is ensuring that more children read. We need a reading revolution in this country. We\u2019ve dropped from being the best country in the world in terms of reading, and we need to make sure that we support our teachers in teacher training, but also that there is more support for organisations like Books in Homes, that parents are focused on reading to their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe also want to see fewer educators spending time in administration, and the Minister can talk about school property all he wants; the reality is that he said himself they\u2019ve funded only 50 percent of the growth funding needed to get ahead of growth in New Zealand. We talk about a new Crown entity in school infrastructure\u2014guaranteed, legislated times in terms of school rebuilds, new classrooms. And we are unashamedly focused on reducing the workload of teachers in primary schools. That\u2019s why, under National, today we have announced draft student-teacher ratios in primary schools. That is smaller class sizes. That means less workload for teachers. That means more of a focus on the curriculum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe know it\u2019s going to be challenging to get there. That\u2019s why we have policies such as incentivising people to come into teaching. When it comes to the tertiary area, we are unashamedly wanting to have this debate about how we have lifelong learning, but also how we get more disadvantaged young New Zealanders into tertiary education. So I will not take a lecture from the other side when the reality is that, under the fees-free first-year programme, there is not the participation or disadvantaged young people getting into tertiary education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe are a busy Opposition. We\u2019ve got some plans. We are fit for Government. I look forward to being Minister of Education in 12 months\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00222dd27e7fae5a4f9096ceda91baf651f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dd27e7fae5a4f9096ceda91baf651f4\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s exam time again, and I\u2019d like to wish all of our students the very best for their exams this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is tackling New Zealand\u2019s long-term challenges. The National Government, after nine very long years, has left us with a big mess, which means we have so much to do to address the many, many issues we\u2019ve inherited. I\u2019m really proud of our Minister of Education, the Hon Chris Hipkins. He has just announced the plans that we are doing in Government in terms of Tomorrow\u2019s Schools. We have an education system that is not fit for purpose, and the last Government had nine very long years to address that. They did not. Our Minister of Education, within two years, didn\u2019t just talk about the changes that we need; he is now coming through and implementing those changes, and we are supporting our teachers as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThere are many other areas that we\u2019re addressing; mental health is one of those. We\u2019re investing the largest amount of money\u2014$1.9 billion\u2014to address mental health; cancer care as well. And we\u2019re doing all of this work while keeping our economy in good shape despite all of the global headwinds that we\u2019re facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIf I can talk now about building and construction, this is another area that, when we came in, we were confronted with so much in terms of shortage of skills. We were actually told by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment that we were currently short, at the time, 30,000 skilled people in building and construction. We now know that we\u2019re going to be short by 80,000 skilled people in building and construction over the next five years, but here\u2019s the thing: we need to build so many houses, schools, and hospitals, and had the last Government, over the last nine years when they were in Government, trained and ensured that we had the numbers of apprentices and skilled people in this area, we wouldn\u2019t have so much to catch up on in this area. I do applaud what it is that we\u2019re doing in Government to ensure that we are attracting more people into the trades to train.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe also have, in building and construction, the Construction Sector Accord. We know that addressing the issues\u2014the many long-term issues\u2014in building and construction is not something that we can address on our own. So we\u2019ve reached out to industry, and we launched the accord in April. The second part of that accord is going to come through this House very soon, and it is where we\u2014Government\u2014and industry are working together to address the many long-term issues that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAnother area is when we build schools and when we build hospitals\u2014and I\u2019ll give you an example: one of the schools that were built a number of years ago now, in South Auckland. The Government of the day invested $25 million to build that particular school. Within a few years, it was already leaking, and so one of the things that the Minister of Education and I went to announce at that school was an extra $20 million just to ensure that that school is actually up to speed in terms of ensuring that it is a fit-for-purpose school for all of our students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EOne of the things I\u2019m doing as Minister for Building and Construction, and one of the things that we\u2019re delivering in this Government, is we\u2019re ensuring that the Building Act 2004 is fit for purpose so that, when we\u2019re building schools, when we\u2019re building hospitals, they are good quality, that we\u2019re not focused just on the cheapest price but that we\u2019re focused on whole of life, that we\u2019re ensuring that we build buildings that last a very long time, because, at the end of the day, it will be we taxpayers that actually come through to address those issues if we do not build it right the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we\u2019ve done, in terms of building and construction, is we\u2019ve changed the procurement rules so that we\u2014Government\u2014adhere to our own procurement rules. This is actually a set of guidelines that was written together with industry. However, in the past, we were not actually adhering to it ourselves, and I\u2019m glad to say that, from 1 October, Government will be adhering to those rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe other thing that we\u2019ve done is we\u2019ve announced that we\u2019re going to ease earthquake strengthening by committing $13.3 million towards financial support for residential building owners. Now, there are a lot of building owners, especially here in this city, who are affected by this. We\u2019ll be making further announcements on the details of that pretty soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of building consent, we have seen over 36,446 new dwelling consents. This is historical. We have never seen this many building concerns over the last 45 years, and it goes to show that there is so much work in this area\u2014that not only are there building consents but we are, of course, building a whole lot of houses. Some of those houses, of course, are our own; we\u2019ve built 2,200 State houses. We are a Government that\u2019s delivering. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccd2568f2bca40d4973e0db452651f83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccd2568f2bca40d4973e0db452651f83\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about early childhood education. I want to talk about why it matters and why it should matter to any Government that is actually intent on ensuring that children can fulfil their God-given potential. I want to talk about this Government\u2019s absolute failure to deliver on its promises to early childhood education. I want to talk about the impact that failure to deliver is having on Kiwi kids and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis is a Government of broken promises. We had here Mr Hipkins say\u2014he had the gall to say\u2014that it\u2019s here on this side of the bench that we have an elitist view of the world. Well, if you want to know what an elitist view of the world looks like, you need look no further than the fees-free policy, which says, \u201CIf you make it to tertiary education\u2014if you\u2019ve got the skills and the qualifications to enter tertiary education\u2014we\u2019ll reward you with tens of thousands of dollars.\u201D, but at the same time says, \u201CBut if you\u2019re a child entering early childhood education, guess what, we won\u2019t deliver on our promises to you, because you are not as important as fulfilling our promise to fees-free tertiary education.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s remember, shall we, what this Labour-led Government promised to early childhood education. They promised 100 percent qualified teachers. They promised lower teacher-child ratios. They promised that there would be shorter waiting times for early intervention. They have failed to deliver on every promise. Do you know what that looks like for parents who are sending their children to early childhood education? Well, I\u2019ll tell you what it looked like for me this morning. When I got to my daughter\u2019s early childhood service this morning, there, taped to the door, the minute I walked in, was a poster. It said, \u201CChildren are being short-changed by Government underfunding.\u201D It said, \u201CThis looks like teacher shortages, this looks like a funding crisis.\u201D It said, \u201CIt\u2019s got to change.\u201D It said, \u201CIt\u2019s time for the Government to value early childhood education.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EYou will ask, \u201CWell, who put that poster there? Was it the National Party?\u201D No, it wasn\u2019t. Who put that poster there? Was it the New Zealand Business Roundtable? No, it wasn\u2019t. The NZEI\u2014the teacher\u2019s union; Labour\u2019s good friends\u2014put that poster on the door of the early childhood service. I\u2019ll tell you why they put it there: because they see that this is a Government that can find billions to commit to tertiary students but cannot prioritise funding for children and early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s having an impact. We had a Prime Minister who in May last year said it was disgraceful that children were having to wait 74 days to get an early intervention appointment. These are children with additional needs, who need extra help. The earlier we get that help to them, the better the outcomes will be for them in their lives. Minister Martin, sitting opposite, knows what\u2019s happened since that promise was made. She knows what\u2019s happened. The early intervention waiting times have blown out from 74 days to 110 days. Minister Martin knows and Mr Hipkins knows what\u2019s happening in our early childhood centres. There are such acute teacher shortages that services are having to cut back how many staff they have. They\u2019re having to hire people they don\u2019t believe are suitable. They\u2019re having to have a revolving door of remedial workers, and this Government is not managing to act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s starting to show up in the quality of care and education that our children are receiving. The number of complaints has spiked in the past year, and is it any wonder, when services are under so much pressure; up to 440 complaints\u2014a huge spike of 90 in a year. We\u2019re seeing more licences being downgraded and we are reading reports of centres where terrible things are going wrong, and when the inspectors go to see what had gone wrong, they find that the regulations weren\u2019t being met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s this Government saying they\u2019re going to do about it? Well, we had the wonderful set of proposals that came out from the Ministry of Education just a couple of weeks ago. They said that what they were going to do about some of these issues in early childhood services was they were going to ban cheerios; that\u2019s right, ban cheerios, can popcorn, ban marshmallows. Because, rather than investing in early childhood education and prioritising teaching, what we need to do is introduce more bans on the things that are an intrinsic part of Kiwi childhood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo over on this side of the House, we have put forward proposals for early childhood education that we intend to deliver on, not just talk about like the members opposite. We will have more spot checks. We will tackle teacher shortages. We will ensure better early intervention faster, because we care about Kiwi kids, we care about their parents, and we know that government is about priorities. We must prioritise the early years; that\u2019s what really counts. These people opposite have not made them a priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u002257e49f7fb2014a3a9f60fe467bc068df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257e49f7fb2014a3a9f60fe467bc068df\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I think it\u2019s really unfortunate that that speaker, Nicola Willis, decided to minimise children choking, and that the research and the actions taken by the Ministry of Education to ensure that children don\u2019t choke is somehow made light of. I think that\u2019s a really unfortunate way to conclude the general debate. There are many ways to express your message and to promote discussion documents\u2014because they\u2019re not policy documents; discussion documents. I suggest the public look for the crest on it to see how much they have paid for those discussion documents so that the National Party can do its polling by them before the 2020 election. There are many ways to use general debate, but actually making fun or making light of the fact that there have been incidents where children have been placed in extreme danger, and that the Ministry of Education took that very seriously and was talking to the sector about it, is not one of the things that should be part of the general debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m actually going to put some numbers on the table. I know there\u2019s been some comment about numbers today. So 79,921: that\u2019s the number of incidents attended in the 2018-2019 year; 19,871, that\u2019s the number of fires that have been attended; 4,416 vegetation fires, that\u2019s the number that have been attended by our volunteer and career firefighters over the last year. We have 11,801 volunteer firefighters. We have 1,801 career firefighters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c186fe3e054414a6bda9725479314c\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Heroes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0f76271e3d4714be065a698fa44d80\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely they are heroes. They are the heroes of local community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EFirefighters are the most trusted organisation in New Zealand. There\u2019s a good reason for that, because, regardless of the raruraru that goes on in this House, those individuals, when they get a call to help, they go, regardless of what it costs their private lives, regardless of what it costs their businesses, actually. That\u2019s part of the reason why Fire and Emergency New Zealand recently made announcements around supports for our volunteer firefighters: an annual payment of $300 to all volunteers to recognise that they sometimes incur expenses as part of their activities for Fire and Emergency, an allowance of $50 a night to support the families and wh\u0101nau of volunteers when they have to be away overnight for training, access to websites offering discounts on a range of products and services, discounts with Fire and Emergency suppliers on day-to-day items, access to health insurance options, an employer promotion scheme to complement Fire and Emergency\u2019s current employer recognition programme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut we need to do more\u2014we need to do more. We need to do more, because we are relying in our rural communities and even in our urban communities on our fire and emergency workers\u2014the number of medical callouts that our fire and emergency workers are now attending, the number of suicides that they are attending in their communities\u2014and it is taking its toll. It is taking its toll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EOne of the areas where Fire and Emergency New Zealand is stepping up, and will continue to step up, both for the volunteers and career firefighters but also for their families, is the access to mental health, the access to counselling, and the access to areas where we can recognise that what we as a society ask them to do is put themselves in harm\u2019s way, whether that be physically or, now we know, their mental health. We ask them to put themselves in harm\u2019s way for the rest of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo that is why I will continue to advocate inside of Government for certain cancers to be recognised as occupational by ACC. And I know that Minister Iain Lees-Galloway is having those conversations with ACC right now. We need to look at further ways to recognise how our employers can be supported. They don\u2019t want to become paid firefighters. They don\u2019t want to lose the volunteerism that is core of who they are. That is why they join Fire and Emergency. It\u2019s because of the citizens that they are and the way that they want to give back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ELastly, a shout-out to the United Fire Brigades\u2019 Association and Forest and Rural Fire Association of New Zealand, who I was with on Sunday, for the rousing welcome that they gave me, for the amazing stuff they do, and for being down to earth, practical New Zealanders who get in, do what they need to do, do it for their community, put themselves in the way, and do it constantly. Years and years of service; you often go to medal ceremonies for over 50 years of service that they give to their communities. But can I reiterate my message to them: we ask you to look after yourselves. We ask you to partake in the services should you need them. We ask you to look out for each other, but make sure you get help if you need it from us. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u002241dc8a6bd7d04b3d84f2823bb56e13bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241dc8a6bd7d04b3d84f2823bb56e13bf\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ve heard this afternoon that this is a Government failing to deliver on their promises to New Zealanders. We\u2019ve seen it in education with their school donations policy now a shadow of its former self. We\u2019ve seen it in housing with their longstanding policy of 100,000 new houses over 10 years now lying in tatters. And we\u2019ve seen it in police numbers where 1,800 additional police, promised by Stuart Nash, is now being described by none other than the Police Association as a broken promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThis is what we ask in their year of delivery: what are they actually delivering? Well, in rural New Zealand, the evidence is clear: concern, fear, and mistrust. Recently, more than 500 people packed into the event centre in Ashburton to put a voice to that concern. They spoke of their fear of the effects of the Government\u2019s freshwater policies and the impacts in places like mid- and South Canterbury, that I serve here in this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe proposals were released by the Government at the worst possible time of year, in the midst of lambing and calving, with a totally unrealistic six-week consultation period. It was increased begrudgingly to eight weeks, but it was nowhere near enough when you consider that the Government refused to release any economic modelling of the changes. The dissolved inorganic nitrogen limit of one milligram per litre has been described as unattainable in some catchments in Canterbury. We know that simply trying to achieve that target will result in wholesale land-use change in Canterbury towards forestry and dryland sheep and beef, and no irrigation. And yet David Parker has refused to release any economic or social impact analysis of those changes: what the effect would be on rural communities, what the effect would be on rural schools, on regional economies, and on the people that live within them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EInstead, there\u2019s been a document released asking for submissions, but no desire for an informed debate. All we have is a footnote buried at the bottom of page 84 referring to an Environment Canterbury report looking at the Selwyn Te Waihora zone. It\u2019s a report from June 2017 which looks at the effects of a dissolved inorganic nitrogen limit of one or close to one. I\u2019ll refer to that report now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIt projects \u201Ca very substantial change in land use in the catchment, with virtually no intensive land uses and the catchment dominated by dryland sheep and beef grazing and by forestry or other extensive land uses.\u201D It goes on to say, \u201CSuch large scale effective retirement of intensive land has not been experienced in Canterbury on any scale, and the implications would be far reaching. There would be significant changes to the social structure of the catchment, with the forestry or extensive grazing resulting in fewer farms and reduction in employment, losses of economic value in the land, significant loss in equity, and, depending on the time scale, bankruptcy for those with debt that could not be managed through the transition.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EFinally, and what can only be news to Mr Shane Jones, it says that \u201Ceven forestry may not be possible because the reduction in aquifer recharge may result in higher concentrations of nutrients in lowland streams and lower stream flows, which breaches other desired outcomes in the catchment.\u201D; in other words, no billion trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe reason I quote this report at length is most alarming. Two weeks ago on the TVNZ Sunday programme, mid-Canterbury Federated Farmers\u2019 president David Clark challenged the Minister on the contents of this report. David Parker admitted he hadn\u2019t even bothered to read it. Is it any wonder that farmer confidence is so low in this Minister and is so low in this Government? This is a Government that is failing farmers and failing to deliver on their promises to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022078768c4ea1642dd9b2c0720063873bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022078768c4ea1642dd9b2c0720063873bc\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m absolutely delighted to be standing here today in the general debate because I\u2019m really excited about our announcements that were made yesterday on the reform of Tomorrow\u2019s Schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EYesterday was a great day for our education system; one I haven\u2019t seen and been so excited about since I started teaching in 1990. That\u2019s 30 years of the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools system that I have been involved in, in education. The reform is exciting. It\u2019s a major transformative change and the sector is excited. The feedback that I\u2019ve personally had has been that of positivity. The feedback that I\u2019ve read about in the public settings has been really exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, I worked within that system for all of that time, and the last nine years before I came into Parliament were the hardest nine years that I experienced over that time. There were persistent disparities\u2014yes, caused slightly by the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools system but really exacerbated by the previous regime. Schools were often isolated and unable to access adequate networks of support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI can remember when I first became a principal, in 1996. At that time I had wonderful support. Despite what people might say, we were actually really well supported in our first years as principals, and that was before the first-time principal support programmes came in. We had rural advisers, who used to visit us quite often. What happened under the last regime? Those advisers were wiped completely. I never saw those people or any advisory people that would come to me and say, \u201CAre you OK? Can we support you? How can we support you?\u201D There was a lack of trust in the system that grew over time. But I don\u2019t want to actually dwell on the negative; I want to dwell on the positive here this afternoon of what is going on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThis is a really exciting time in education. I am really excited to be part of a team that\u2019s implementing those changes. We have actually implemented so much already. We\u2019ve implemented more funding into schools. Despite how the Opposition want to put it, we are putting more funding into schools. We\u2019re actually increasing that funding to deciles 1 to 7 schools so that they don\u2019t need to ask for donations any longer. We know it\u2019s exam time at the moment. This is the first time that there\u2019s going to be support for around those 168,000 students, because they don\u2019t have to pay NCEA fees any longer\u2014a great support to those parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ENext year, we start the free school lunch programme. How exciting is that? I do want to do a big shout-out\u2014I was in Invercargill last week and saw Koha Kai down there and their amazing set-up for school lunches that they do. Those schools that have been told that they will be in the next tranche of the free school lunches already are really, really excited because that means that a system that works for them is going to be well-supported by this Government, and those children won\u2019t be going to school hungry any longer. That\u2019s fantastic and it\u2019s exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard it here this afternoon\u2014we\u2019ve put heaps more money into property. I can\u2019t tell you the stresses that I used to have as a school principal over property. I wondered where I would get the next lot of support from as I watched those school buildings falling down around me. I was trying to make that extra dollar go a lot further, and it never ever stretched, because I didn\u2019t have that opportunity to make more money. It is really interesting when we hear from the other side and they talk about early childhood\u2014you know, \u201CThese teachers are in a tough way.\u201D Yes they are, but that\u2019s caused because over the nine years of that previous Government, they didn\u2019t get a funding increase at all. In fact, there was a freeze on their core funding for nine years. This Government has put the first lot of money back into the core funding again and the first increase back into that core funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EReally important that we see early childhood as being really important. We heard over there about the fact that we haven\u2019t quite implemented the 100 percent qualified target. Who got rid of it in the first place? That was the previous Government that got rid of that target. We will get there. We have done so much already. We have got lots more to do, and I am really, really excited that we are well and truly on our way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00228be278e4d7304c52803c025b9ea4a3f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228be278e4d7304c52803c025b9ea4a3f1\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Early this morning, the National Party launched our education discussion document\u2014the sixth of eight policy discussion documents that we\u2019re going to be releasing. I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to do a big shout-out to Nikki Kaye. She has put in two long years of incredibly hard work to get to this point. This is what we call a recipe for good government, because we do the hard work in Opposition so that we are ready to govern with strong ideas to move this country forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis Government should take note, because they\u2019ve also been following a recipe. It\u2019s a recipe I like to call \u201Clame duck Government\u201D. As it turns out, it\u2019s a recipe for disaster. The preparation time? Nine very long years of rotating through many, many leaders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc8dcb41c9044689470b32f3de5d70c\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: They did nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a235cdf61b00409c95095e0ca0af76cd\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: They did nothing. They had a whole bunch of infighting. They were just lazy and they didn\u2019t do the grunt work. That\u2019s the problem\u2014no grunt work like what we are doing. It\u2019s become completely apparent to the whole country that these guys came in and they had absolutely no idea what they were doing. They\u2019re trying to backfill with 300 working groups, at the cost of millions and millions of dollars, to generate ideas that they\u2019re not even using. Let\u2019s take the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u201442 recommendations; three taken up. The education task force, with the central idea of education hubs\u2014gone. Michael Cullen and the Tax Working Group\u2014thanks, but no thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe ingredients? A very easy-to-source bunch of extremely incompetent Ministers. There\u2019s a smorgasbord of them in front of me. Let\u2019s take Julie Anne Genter, who has difficulties with stationery and writes secret letters. Carmel Sepuloni\u2014in two short years, she\u2019s overseen 22,000 more people on the dole, a doubling of the housing wait-list, a doubling of food grants, and now we see gang numbers are up 26 percent. David Clark is having to bail out district health boards left, right, and centre. He\u2019s got fewer elective surgeries in the last 12 months than the previous 12 months, emergency department waiting times are up, and we\u2019ve had a measles outbreak with vaccines that haven\u2019t been forthcoming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EJenny Salesa, the \u201CMinister for Vaping\u201D\u2014she\u2019s had legislation from us with regulations around the vaping industry on her desk for two years. So if you\u2019re out there and listening and your kid is addicted to nicotine through vaping, go and have a chat to Jenny Salesa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EIain Lees-Galloway\u2014welcoming drug dealers and recidivist drink-drivers into this country with open arms while overseeing a ministry where wait times for New Zealanders trying to obtain visas for their loved ones has gone from 33 days to five months to 10 months in cases that are coming to my office. Meanwhile, he\u2019s got a ministry with a lack of staff to process visas, a revolving door of staff who keep leaving because they\u2019re so disaffected, and that Minister is directly responsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford can\u2019t build houses, can\u2019t build light rail, and now he\u2019s going to move the port, apparently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EStuart Nash\u20141,800 new police, or maybe it\u2019s 1,800 additional new police, dancing on the head of a pin while the police commissioner is directly contradicting him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson\u2014despite trying his best to be jolly and cheery, he can\u2019t hide from the facts. We\u2019ve got growth rates that have halved, plummeting business confidence, interest rates heading into the negatives, productivity that\u2019s completely flat-lined, job growth that\u2019s gone from 10,000 a month under us to 10,000 a quarter under these guys, and an economy that is shaky at best. But hey, at least his airline puns are first class. Kelvin Davis, Shane Jones, Clare Curran\u2014the list goes on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe method? Wheeling and dealing, flip-flops, kneecapping, broken promises, backtracks, overpromising, under-delivering, mishandling, and cover-ups. We have an executive chef who sprinkles fairy dust and then flits overseas with the Rt Hon Winston Peters, who\u2019s suing people left, right, and centre. In fact, I would suggest he\u2019s making the perfect \u201Csue-chef\u201D, kneecapping the Government at every opportunity to try and prove to them that he really is the one in charge. Too many chefs. It\u2019s all served up with a side of sad, wilted Greens, who shackled themselves to the left and watched New Zealand First, who only got 24,000 votes more than them, get a $4 billion doggy bag. How embarrassing for them. They were left with a hundred million dollar Green Investment Fund, which in two years they haven\u2019t even spent a single cent of. They\u2019ve got no cameras on fishing boats, Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary is off the table, plastics are piling up, urban beaches are unswimmable, they\u2019re still burning more coal than ever, and greenhouse gas emissions are going to continue to rise through to the mid-2020s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhile this unholy concoction may be served with a smile, it leaves us with a very bad taste in our mouths. New Zealanders deserve better than a lame duck. We have put in the prep in Opposition. We have the recipe for success and we will serve it up come 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u002220a3b4aa72e940f797a8f0141cf02fac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a3b4aa72e940f797a8f0141cf02fac\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand would like to send solidarity to our neighbours in Australian communities who are currently battling unprecedented, catastrophic fires in New South Wales and Queensland. Here in Aotearoa, we want everyone in the world, including our neighbours across the Ditch, to have a safe and thriving country that is protected from the increased risks of these fires that devastate communities. We want to help Australia protect her people and communities, protect her unique biodiversity and her precious wildlife.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI would like to pass on my deep condolences to the family and friends of the three people who have died in these fires, as well as 150 families so far who have had their homes destroyed, who have lost their beloved pets, like their dogs and their horses. I extend deep sadness and love for the precious biodiversity of Australia, and the koalas in particular, because 350 of them already have been wiped out from one colony alone in the Lake Innes Nature Reserve. The joeys, the laughing kookaburra, the wombats, the echidnas\u2014all at risk from these fires that are ravaging their habitats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ERegional communities have felt and experienced the change in bushfire seasons in recent years. The Deputy Mayor of the MidCoast Council in New South Wales, Claire Pontin, said, \u201CWe\u2019re in the middle of an unprecedented dry spell, with river levels sitting at the lowest they\u2019ve ever been. This is not normally a dry area\u2014the hotter, drier conditions that are driving the current catastrophic fire conditions have developed only over the last 10 to 15 years. And the science tells us that it\u2019s climate change causing it.\u201D We agree with Deputy Mayor Pontin, who goes on to say, \u201CThe future out-of-control fires we feared are already here\u2014this is our \u2018new normal\u2019, and the science tells us it\u2019s only going to get worse unless urgent action is taken on climate change.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EInaction by global leaders across the world on climate change has gotten us to this point where climate change is reshaping our planet and threatening our communities, our precious wildlife, and a world for our mokopuna. For 30 years, our leaders have known what could happen if we do not act. Politicians and corporate leaders have continued on the path of the growth of unfairly distributed wealth at any cost. Scientists, experts, locals, and their expertise have all warned that Australia\u2019s fire season has grown longer and more intense due to climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ETo the people of Australia who are experiencing incredible stress and trauma this very second, we send our aroha, and we say to everyone around the world: we cannot accept this as the new norm. Together the people have already been demanding and working collectively to create a clean, green, stable climate that stops the acceleration of these horrendous natural events. I am proud that New Zealand has begun to do its part with the zero carbon bill, which will get us down to net zero carbon emissions by 2050, alongside the offshore oil and gas ban, water reform, phasing out plastic bags, and other essential measures that must help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe answers are here but we as leaders must implement them, and I am so proud that in New Zealand we have made that start. Politicians and corporations can no longer make decisions to keep amassing wealth into the hands of too few at the cost of the many people and the planet. We are pleased that Minister Tracey Martin is sending over 21 firefighters to help tackle the fires, additional to the six that are already there working around the clock to help. I echo Minister Martin\u2019s words that our firefighters head to Australia with the support of all New Zealanders behind them. I add that the people of Australia have our support to take urgent action to address climate change. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u00226861ba2d82b44722b47f5c8408487ff8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226861ba2d82b44722b47f5c8408487ff8\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it well and truly is the year of non-delivery and broken promises. And how do I know that? It is because today marks the six-month anniversary of the Government\u2019s failure to act on their own pay equity for women legislation. On 14 May, six months ago today, the Equal Pay Amendment Bill was reported back from the Education and Workforce Committee. It has been languishing on the Order Paper ever since and the Government is refusing to debate it and vote on it. Actually, though, it\u2019s longer than six months; they\u2019ve been in Government for over two years and it\u2019s never been a priority. This is a bill that was copied nearly word for word from my previous member\u2019s bill and is supported by all the parties here in the House. Go figure\u2014every single party supports it. But they\u2019ve blocked and voted\u2014if you look back in history\u2014our bill three times in the past, which could have been passed into law by now and have made tangible progress for all the women in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThis is a very important issue for millions of women across New Zealand who want progress. If they feel undervalued, there\u2019s a process that they could use to argue for better conditions, but this Government is making them wait. I have a question for the Minister for Women and the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: why is this legislation held up? It\u2019s on the Order Paper; what\u2019s happening to it? The Minister for Women said, \u201CWe want to get this right.\u201D when I questioned her in the House a few weeks ago. We do know there are a couple of large pay equity claims sitting in courts right now. Are we waiting for a couple of vocal unions to complete their process, and everyone else\u2014all the other rest of the women in New Zealand\u2014are on perpetual standby? Is that the reason? We\u2019d like to hear and we\u2019d like to know the answer. Women in New Zealand deserve to know the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EPay equity is one of the countless areas where this Government has failed to deliver. Aucklanders, they\u2019re stuck in congestion, paying increased fuel tax and not getting anything in return, because we can\u2019t see what the Government\u2019s transport programme is actually delivering. To make it worse, local projects are on hold because they\u2019re waiting to see what this Government\u2019s plan is. Onehunga wharf, the rejuvenation of Onehunga\u2019s town centre are all stalled because they need to adapt to this Government programme that\u2019s not happening, with light rail specifically. The Government can\u2019t even get that off the ground. We\u2019re supposed to have it halfway to Mount Roskill by now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s failure to build the Environmental Protection Authority - approved East-West Link means that a huge number of trucks are driving on residential and suburban streets in my area every single day. And then they\u2019re pushing ahead with the outdated old M\u0101ngere Bridge\u2014only a $25 million bridge that\u2019s about to start construction any day. And they\u2019re doing that when they don\u2019t know what these other two projects that I\u2019ve just mentioned\u2014light rail and East-West Link\u2014are doing. Why would you do that? It\u2019s an absolute dog\u2019s breakfast of misalignment and bad planning. Really, I\u2019ll tell you what the plan is: the other side are just making it up as they go along. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ENow, compare and contrast this: their track record and what we\u2019re doing in Opposition. This morning, we launched our education discussion document. It\u2019s our sixth document and we\u2019ve got more to come. It\u2019s absolutely packed full of ideas on how we can fix the education system. We\u2019re doing the work. We don\u2019t want to flounder around and we want to get back into Government next year, 2020, because we\u2019ve seen\u2014in fact, all we\u2019ve seen are broken promises and non-delivery from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec1ce417cecb417daf1278cfdc48ed49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec1ce417cecb417daf1278cfdc48ed49\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very proud to round off this general debate in support of this most positive Government, a positive Government that is focused on tackling the long-term challenges that New Zealand faces. We have a whakatauk\u012B in our M\u0101ori language. It goes like this: \u201CM\u0101 pango, m\u0101 whero, m\u0101 k\u0101k\u0101riki, ka oti te mahi.\u201D I took a bit of licence to add in the extra colour, but that translates as \u201CWith red, with black, and with green the work will be done.\u201D And that\u2019s exactly what this Government signifies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the other side through this general debate so much negativity. It\u2019s really disappointing. I know they have got a bad taste in their mouth; we could smell it from over this side. But we know that we\u2019re getting on with this job. We\u2019re getting on with the job of running the country and tackling the long-term challenges. And no more is that evident than in the wonderful work of the Hon Chris Hipkins, the Minister of Education\u2014just yesterday the announcement of our reforms of Tomorrow\u2019s Schools. These are wonderful, long-overdue reforms that have been so welcomed from right across the motu. And that extends right through all levels of education. We\u2019ve seen the most massive investments that we are putting into long-neglected infrastructure in our school system. We funded and are building capacity for over 100,000 more students, which we know that we have to prepare for as a country, so we\u2019re getting on with the mahi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIf I cast my eye over my vast electorate right across Te Wai Pounamu and up here in Wellington, we\u2019re making those investments everywhere. One little beautiful corner comes to mind and that\u2019s the area of Collingwood in Golden Bay, where the Collingwood Area School and the Golden Bay High School are having new classrooms built, and there is such excitement and it\u2019s such a welcome addition to those communities. So we\u2019re making a difference. I want to acknowledge the Minister for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re actually extending it into M\u0101ori education as well. I could go on, but I want to acknowledge the Associate Minister of Education, the Hon Kelvin Davis, as well, for all the work that he\u2019s doing in M\u0101ori education. We know that we\u2019ve had the recent announcement\u2014and we\u2019re all excited\u2014about introducing our New Zealand histories as part of our core curriculum. But we know that Minister Davis is doing a lot of work with the k\u014Dhanga reo\u2014driving that funding that\u2019s been long neglected for our k\u014Dhanga into upskilling all of the kaimahi that work within our k\u014Dhanga wh\u0101nau. But, most importantly, Minister Davis has given respect and recognition to our k\u014Dhanga reo right up and across the motu. And we know that because we know that for nine long years the National Government did nothing for k\u014Dhanga. We know that there was a monumental Waitangi Tribunal report that was delivered, and what did the National Government do at the time? There was no response, absolutely no response at all from that Government at that time; nine long years of neglect. So we are doing so many things right across the education spectrum, at all levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I want to focus on the wonderful mahi that\u2019s happening with Minister Jackson in our employment\u2014Mana in Mahi, fantastic initiative. We\u2019ve just heard the results today and it\u2019s always unfolding, but a massive 417 participants in Mana in Mahi have now moved off the benefit and into full-time mahi; incredible results. And that\u2019s what happens when you have a Government that cares, a Government that\u2019s really focused on targeting those NEETs and those that are really in need of targeted effort and support, and Mana in Mahi is one such programme. But we\u2019re doing wonderful things right across the country, and no more is that evident in the eyes of M\u0101oridom and in the eyes of our tamariki across the motu than through our kapa haka. I want to acknowledge all of the primary schools that took part in the Te Mana Kuratahi, which was competed for recently; a wonderful display of M\u0101ori rangatahi, our tamariki from primary schools up and down the motu who took part. I know that it was a M\u0101taatua clean sweep from my colleague here, Tamati Coffey, but these are the things that we\u2019re doing. We\u2019re making a difference, we\u2019re making changes, and our wh\u0101nau are all the better for it. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db58045680ae4b8e9d1937b4d3e2c851\u0022\u003EEnd of Life Choice Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222259bed3017d423e9a6bacf68959e2db\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002250a2558a858f4d56b74a46a34d57f6ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250a2558a858f4d56b74a46a34d57f6ba\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the End of Life Choice Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has never had a well-funded, well-oiled lobby for assisted dying. The End-of-Life Choice Society, four previous members of Parliament with similar bills\u2014and I acknowledge the Hon Maryan Street here today\u2014and advocates such as Lecretia Seales have all been passionate grassroots campaigners. And yet, New Zealanders have come to their own conclusions on the matter. Analysis by Jessica Young from the University of Otago has found that over 20 years, support for such a bill as this has run at 68 percent to 15 percent, with 17 percent undecided. For context, the biggest audience the All Blacks have ever garnered was only 40 percent of New Zealanders. Such a deep and unsolicited conviction can only come from one place: life experience. And I\u2019ve listened to New Zealanders talk about their experiences, literally from Kerikeri to Gore. Overwhelmingly, they\u2019ve said to me, \u201CI\u2019ve seen bad death. If my time comes and I\u2019m not doing well, then I want choice. And, by the way, it\u2019s nobody else\u2019s business but mine.\u201D They\u2019ve thought deeply about harrowing events in their own lives, and I caution members of Parliament that we should not underestimate or belittle the public\u2019s understanding of this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI want to thank colleagues who supported amendments to this bill at committee. Those amendments have delivered on promises I made to fellow MPs during the second reading debate. There is not time to describe every improvement, but I will summarise some of the key ones now. The bill previously allowed people with a grievous and irremediable medical condition to be eligible for assisted dying. That term was lifted from the Canadian legislation, where it works successfully. But, nevertheless, members of Parliament indicated they could not support a bill with that feature, and it has now been narrowed. Only a person whom two doctors judge to have a terminal illness likely to end their life within six months can be eligible. I acknowledge supporters of the bill who lament that narrowing, but I also say that it places a black-letter objectivity in the bill that only the most fundamentalist opponents can deny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESeveral provisions have been introduced for the avoidance of all doubt. It is now explicit that nobody can become eligible for assisted dying simply due to age, disability, or a purely psychological condition. Similarly, no written consent or advanced directive can substitute for a person demonstrating their eligibility in real time. These avoidance of doubt clauses don\u2019t change the underlying function of the bill, but they do clarify its intentions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESeveral improvements have been made to the qualifications required of health practitioners under the bill. The independent medical practitioner, or second doctor, must now have five years\u2019 experience. The medical practitioner who gives the third opinion, the potential psychologist, can no longer be a psychologist and must be a psychiatrist. Nurse practitioners may play some roles under the bill, but all decision-making functions remain with doctors, and, ultimately, with the patient. The employment rights of health practitioners who must play a role under the bill and conscientiously object to that role are now explicitly protected. And the test for mental competence has been upgraded to align with that in other legislation, requiring a person to understand, retain, weigh, and communicate information. It\u2019s been made explicit that no medical practitioner can initiate any conversation about assisted dying, and rules have been added to balance privacy and responsible public reporting of death in accordance with other legislation. Finally, the immunity protections for a doctor carrying out acts under this law have been made more specific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a very significant list of improvements to the bill, but I remind members they are in addition to the already robust regime of safeguards and reporting that was in the bill, and debated at length in the first and second readings. One final change made by the committee is to add the requirement for a referendum to be held before the bill comes into force. I\u2019d like to address some criticisms of this feature, including those who say that we in Parliament are abdicating our responsibility by adding a referendum. That criticism ignores that Parliament has to pass the bill before the referendum is possible. Today is exactly 23 months since we first debated this bill in first reading; nobody can ever say that Parliament hasn\u2019t done its job. In fact, the net effects of the referendum is that the public will have one last chance to veto Parliament\u2019s work, should we choose to pass it tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s impossible to ignore the voluminous debate that has surrounded this bill, not just in the last two years, but in the last two decades. Some of the arguments have been, frankly, disgraceful. Let me put on record again, there is no connection between legalised assisted dying and suicide anywhere. To see people in the New Zealand Herald this morning saying that there is \u201Csuggested evidence\u201D, well, I\u2019ve heard that academic standards are falling, but \u201Csuggested evidence\u201D is a new low. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EPeople have tried to play on New Zealanders\u2019 natural protectiveness of those with a disability. Let me be clear that no iteration of this bill has ever allowed anyone to be eligible for assisted dying by dint of a disability. I have some personal experience with this. My own mother was one of the last people in New Zealand to contract the polio virus and, like many with a disability, she fought all her life to assert that her disability did not diminish her as a self-determining person in every other respect. The underlying premise of some opponents is that people with a disability are somehow vulnerable to the mere existence of choice. It\u2019s an argument that I have found deeply and personally distasteful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOthers have argued more generally that choice for some would mean undue pressure for others. The bill includes stringent safeguards to ensure choice is genuine though, and these include requirements for two doctors to independently verify that the person is somebody who feels, in their own belief, that assisted dying is the only way to alleviate their suffering. They must also talk to others involved in their care, and they must also cease taking any action if undue pressure is even suspected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut we can also look at the international evidence. Who is likely to use assisted dying laws? Is it those who are less articulate, less assertive, and have fewer resources in life? No. It should be intuitive, actually, that it\u2019s those who are used to navigating severe bureaucracy, who are more assertive, who navigate the stringent safeguards under assisted dying laws overseas at a time when they are ill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd, finally, opponents who run out of sound objections to this bill try arguing against some other bill, a hypothetical one. They call it the slippery-slope fallacy, and they say, \u201CAh, but it will change.\u201D Well, let\u2019s look at what that would require in context. An MP would have to bring a new bill to this House. A majority would have to agree to any changes, and all the same arguments that led to the narrowing of this bill would emerge again. That\u2019s one of the reasons those who have studied assisted dying laws overseas, the Supreme Court of Canada, and the Western Australian and Victorian parliaments have roundly rejected the slippery slope fallacy. The objections to this bill hold no water even with endless repetition. They evaporate when confronted with the details of the bill and the reality of overseas experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMembers would do well to ask themselves why it is that after 15 years, 88 percent of Dutch people support their law. If half the things that the opponents have said were true, then that couldn\u2019t be possible. And they might also reflect on what it\u2019s like to be a Dutch MP who was around voting against such a law 15 years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo much for the arguments of opponents. We must remember why we are doing this. It\u2019s about how we treat the most vulnerable in our society. If some people are suffering at the end of their life, do we say to them that they must suffer some more because we in this House lack the courage to make better laws or even let our fellow New Zealanders have a say in a referendum on that law? No. We must give them choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI leave you with the words of Lecretia Seales, who said, \u201CI am simply saying that I, Lecretia Seales, a human being confronted with the inescapable reality of my death, and the prospect of great suffering\u2014for me and those who love me\u2014must have the right to determine when I have reached the end of the road. This right belongs to me and none other.\u201D\u2014or the words of Martin Hames, a parliamentary staffer who briefly lived after a botched suicide to end his Huntington\u2019s torment. When he came back alive, he said to that MP, \u201CBoss, change it. Change for all others.\u201D That\u2019s what we must do tonight, colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022f05b75fc55de4f19ad79764102ba0f7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f05b75fc55de4f19ad79764102ba0f7f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E The End of Life Choice Bill, so called, seeks to establish a regime\u2014let us be clear\u2014to facilitate euthanasia and assisted suicide in this country; respectively, the act of ending the life of another through a lethal dose of medication, or to do it to oneself. There are a number of questions we should ask ourselves in this House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first is not whether some people should die in a way that the bill allows but whether any people could die in a way that the bill does not allow. Put another way, the question is not whether it is possible to imagine whether a person who is competent, in good mental health, has a supportive family, and whose first language is English, the language of the death transaction, might be able to make a choice and not be bullied into an early grave but, rather, whether it is possible to imagine others who lack such natural advantages. I can think of constituents in both categories, and I acknowledge them all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe next question we might ask is: what is the number of vulnerable New Zealanders who may be coerced to exercise the so-called choice, absent other choices? A further question might be not whether the bill is better than it was before\u2014less dangerous, in other words\u2014but whether it is good enough now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWith regard to the referendum proposal that was inserted at the committee stage of the debate, we ask ourselves: is it responsible for us as lawmakers to hand a loaded gun to fellow New Zealanders and say, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, I have applied the safety catch.\u201D, knowing very well that for many New Zealanders the only words of the bill that they will ever read before such a referendum will be the title of the bill, containing the euphemism that it does?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ERecent polling has indicated clearly that members of the general public, quite understandably, given that it is not their job but ours to understand and interrogate the details of such legislation, misunderstand the nature of what it is that Mr Seymour is proposing. Seventy percent believe that the bill concerns itself with \u201CDo not resuscitate\u201D orders. In fact, this is already legally and ethically accepted in New Zealand today. Seventy-four percent believe that the switching off of life support is within the remit of the bill, notwithstanding that, again, legally and indeed ethically, as far as the medical profession is concerned, this is already perfectly legitimate in this country. Some seventy-two percent believe that the bill contains an exclusion for mental health, precluding those who are suffering perhaps from depression having received a terminal illness diagnosis in recent times, for example, from accessing the provisions to make the choice as referred to in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EEven advocates for the bill\u2014and I do not blame them for this; again, it is our job and not theirs\u2014often do not know the detail of the bill. I was speaking recently with one who spoke very passionately and articulately and, frankly, very well in support of the bill and urged me to support it. But she did not believe me when I said that it would be possible for a person to receive a diagnosis of terminal illness on a Wednesday, gain the necessary approvals under the bill that same day, and be dead before the weekend. I have double-checked, as I had promised that constituent I would, and I can confirm, having read the bill, that there is no stand-down period, no time frame involved other than the 48 hours between the approval and the lethal dose of medication being administered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn the context of the referendum still\u2014before I move on\u2014we must face the prospect of misinformation by the sponsor of the bill, David Seymour. He has previously said in this very House that the bill has received a clean bill of health from the Attorney-General. That much is not true. The Attorney-General was explicit in stating that it discriminates on the basis of age, opening the possibility of a challenge through the courts. And this is the missing piece in the constitutional jigsaw puzzle that the sponsor of the bill has recently exposed his own ignorance upon. It would not be required, as he has just said, that a member of Parliament necessarily would have to in the future bring such a change to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere is misunderstanding by supporter MPs too, who have claimed that it would be a matter for the family doctor of a person. There is no such provision in the bill, requiring that a doctor who signs off the person, whether the first or the second doctor, need ever have met the person themselves before. If that sounds familiar, it\u2019s because it was the subject of a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that was put forward by a fellow MP who was concerned about the lack of meaningful safeguards. That SOP was not supported by the sponsor of the bill. It failed, and, accordingly, the bill retains that outstanding requirement, that shortfall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThese are the myths and misunderstandings, my fellow parliamentarians and my fellow New Zealanders, that we will have to contend with if the sponsor\u2019s approach of full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes is adopted. It is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe support for the bill, as expressed by its sponsor, is predicated on a false choice. There is improving care, and technology and pain management techniques allow the improvement naturally to continue. The words \u201CThere is no alternative\u201D ring hollow. So too the syllogism that says, \u201CWe must do something; this is something; therefore, we must do it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere are other things that we can and should do in the context of end of life care. And there are things that we should not do as well\u2014certainly those things that seek to solve one problem but substitute in its place many others. Whatever the result today, it will not be available for members of this House to claim later that they did not know. Numerous SOPs, proposed amendments, have highlighted the outstanding defects, and this has been the purpose or at least the result of the committee stage of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EKey issues remain, and I make no claim that this is an exhaustive list but merely some of the more important. No independent witnesses are required at any stage of the process, including at the death\u2014independent witnesses being, of course, those who are not involved in the decision-making process, and, of course, the person themselves, for obvious reasons, would not be available as a witness later. In contrast, Victoria\u2019s equivalent law requires at the administration stage, both the request and the lethal dose, a witness. So too in Oregon\u2014in fact, two witnesses in that case\u2014and likewise in Victoria and Canada.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnother such point: the person eligible doesn\u2019t need to be mentally competent when the lethal dose is administered. Thereby, we\u2019ve passed up an opportunity in this House to rectify the bill such that a person is now denied the opportunity, effectively, to reverse their decision, having made it when they were deemed competent\u2014noting, of course, that the threshold for competence is so low as merely being that they understand the nature and consequences and can express that at some time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere is no prescribed cooling-off period. Forty-eight hours, merely, between the administration of the lethal dose of medication following the initial approval, as I have stated earlier, is a common misunderstanding, whereas, by contrast, in Oregon, it is some 15 days; nine days in Victoria; and 10 in Canada. Again, if this sounds familiar, it\u2019s because we made this very proposal in the committee stage, and, again, it was rejected by the sponsor of the bill and others who supported him in doing so. So it is that we do not have that sort of cooling-off period, that protection, and it is particularly relevant in the context of evidence that we have heard that mental ill health\u2014particularly, and explicitly, depression\u2014often follows immediately after the diagnosis of a terminal illness, only to pass, at least in some cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EContrary to the claim of the sponsor of the bill, only the attending medical practitioner needs to check for coercion. The second doctor\u2014the independent medical practitioner, so-called\u2014has no such requirement under the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI could go on. Given time constraints, I will not, but even if there were no other defects\u2014and please believe me when I say that there are\u2014these alone would be sufficient to indicate, in my mind, that we have a very troubling answer to our question that I asked previously, which is: what is the number of vulnerable New Zealanders who may be coerced to exercise this so-called choice, absent other choices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll finish with a run-through of the bill by the numbers: 39,000, approximately, is the number of submissions, a record received by the select committee; 90 percent\u2014more than, in fact\u2014those opposed to the bill. Those who knew enough or cared enough to get in touch with the committee and express a view opposed it overwhelmingly. The number 40\u2014that\u2019s the number of clauses in the bill, as compared with 143 in the equivalent Victorian legislation. So when we heard earlier from supporters of the bill that not too much scrutiny was required because there were relatively few clauses, that is quite clearly absurd in the context of that which is not in the bill being as significant as that which is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe question is not whether some people should die in a way that the bill allows, but whether any people could die in a way that the bill does not allow. We don\u2019t know the number of people that will be coerced into an early death, but we do know that it is not zero. I oppose this bill. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dccc9ee7f99841528fc2c2b86cbc0556\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dccc9ee7f99841528fc2c2b86cbc0556\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! Can I just make it very clear to members of the public in the gallery that participation in this debate is limited to members of Parliament. The Hon Grant Robertson\u2014a five-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228b9c98b95dd245d88ea27704145d442d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b9c98b95dd245d88ea27704145d442d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the call. I want to acknowledge at the outset that this is not an easy debate for anybody. It is a difficult debate, and I have seen respect shown across the House for different views. I think that has been an important part of how this debate has continued, and I want to thank all members for doing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is not easy. New Zealanders don\u2019t like talking about death, but it is important that we do. Death is not just a physical event; it is also a social event. It is something that as a country we must face up to. It is not easy to do difficult things, but unless we do difficult things, we will never do important things, and that is what this debate is about. I want to thank and congratulate the mover of the bill, David Seymour, for the work that he has done in getting us to this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EEvery single person in this House, either in debating here or in other forums, has talked about the friends and the relatives who mean something to them when this debate arises. For me, that person is Helen Kelly. I discussed this issue with Helen before her death several times, and I want to quote her now. She said, \u201CI could let myself die now. I could refuse treatment \u2026 lawfully and die rather quickly. Instead I am trying to live, which is actually what most terminally ill people want\u2014we don\u2019t actually want to die\u2014but if we have to then we want to do it peacefully and some of us may want tools to help [us] when it is not going to happen naturally.\u201D In Helen\u2019s very clear and direct way, she was sending the clear message that I support. This is not easy. This may not be what many of us would want for even ourselves, but it is what we should allow for those who do want it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor me, this debate is actually not so much about choice, and I know that for many members, that is the issue that drives them to support this bill. The reason that I support this piece of legislation is about two other values: those of dignity and those of compassion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnother person who I have had long conversations with about this legislation and this issue was the Very Rev. John Murray\u2014now deceased\u2014from the K\u0101piti coast, who spent many years advocating for voluntary euthanasia as a Christian. He said to me often that as a Christian, the issues were not about choice; the issues were about compassion and about dignity, ensuring that at the end of life, in a Christian way, we show the same principles of compassion that we would show during life for someone. Now, I respect that fact that that is not the view of every person who identifies as a Christian, but it is the view that John Murray transmitted to me several times over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EPalliative care is important. Palliative care remains a critical part of making sure that people at the end their lives are supported. We should support palliative care, and we do. It\u2019s important and it\u2019s vital, but it\u2019s not enough. We do have to provide people with\u2014yes\u2014choice but also with dignity and compassion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also have to trust this House that, through the process, we have improved this bill. We have significantly strengthened the safeguards. We have made sure that this is a bill that will be enduring and provide a law that all New Zealanders can have confidence in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe will pass this bill today, I believe, and when we do, we will put the choice about what happens into the hands of New Zealanders in a referendum. That is not my preference. That is not how I would like this issue to have been resolved by this House. I believe that as a House, we have it within our wherewithal to make this decision. But, for me, it is more important that we finally make progress on this issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis House has been here a couple of times before. It\u2019s now time for us to pass this law, to give New Zealanders that chance to vote on it at a referendum, and to have a referendum that is one that is conducted in a way where we have real information and where we make sure that the respect that has been shown in this House up to now is continued for New Zealanders, but, fundamentally, for people like Helen Kelly and John Murray in my life and for all those similar people in the lives of others here, that we finally offer dignity and compassion in death as we would in life. I support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00221590bcf4092d4cd0919e5b3aa2603e80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221590bcf4092d4cd0919e5b3aa2603e80\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much. First of all, can I do something that I never thought I would do: can I thank David Seymour for his work with New Zealand First and with myself. I also want to acknowledge Brooke from his offices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThere are not many issues that you see a politician make such a commitment to over such a long period of time. Often, you don\u2019t see a politician who has been as open to change and to amendment and as flexible to try and do the best by this House and all the perspectives in this House, because they hold on to their own ego and they hold on to the stick in the sand and they make it about them. I am surprised that it\u2019s a leader of the ACT Party that I\u2019m talking about, but I believe that David Seymour has shown himself to be a gentleman of character and that he has made this issue bigger than him. So I want to acknowledge that. It\u2019ll be the last time I acknowledge anything like that, Mr Seymour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb57192900174037a0617eb44f57f3e6\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. You can stop now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c672b5bb1cfc407aa90a3cbb53e32c52\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo, on behalf of New Zealand First, I stand here not because New Zealand First and its members agree on this piece of legislation. We have a variety of views, as every other caucus has a variety of views. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d454e40afaf4841b3320e8030ade94f\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Have a conscience vote, then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db263782e2347c08d96dc2c961ed7f0\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: But the one thing\u2014and it is a conscience vote. I can hear you shouting out, sir, and it is a conscience vote. But what we do have consensus on in the New Zealand First caucus is that the conscience of the New Zealand public is just as important as the consciences in this room. I wished you hadn\u2019t rolled your eyes when I said that, because we believe that on issues\u2014not every issue, of course not, but this is an issue of such import. If it wasn\u2019t of such import, Mr Penk wouldn\u2019t have been as committed to his position as Mr Seymour is to his. If it wasn\u2019t of such import, it wouldn\u2019t have taken two years and the many thousands of submissions to get us to this place. So because it is such an unusual topic, such a momentous decision for New Zealand, we agree that it is right and proper that our consciences\u2014I hear the words of others who talk about the tyranny of the majority. Surely, this would be the dictatorship of the minority around such an issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENow, I know that people would like to have this done and they would like greater certainty about the numbers to fall on their side, not the other person\u2019s side, but we trust the New Zealand public to be able to understand enough about us that they voted us here in the first place. But they didn\u2019t vote our consciences here; they voted our party manifestos. They voted the things we stood up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f7693c436ac40a2a299e8474e11f042\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: They voted for us to make these decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e356e7047c482ca793b787c6cee202\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E:\u2014on platforms and argued. Mr Bidois\u2014and I\u2019m sure he will seek a call\u2014is announcing that he believes that the New Zealand public voted us here to make this call. Did they know that? Did they know, each and every one of them\u2014each and every one of them\u2014what this bill was going to look like at this moment in time when they asked us to cast our conscience? The answer cannot be yes, because none of this was in place when they voted us here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhat we have said is it has passed through all parts\u2014I believe, hopefully\u2014of this House today; the New Zealand public will now have the opportunity through the bill, through the regulatory impact statement, and through, I\u2019m sure, contributions by Mr Penk and others. If there is a fear of false information, then that is what behoves us to call it out, Mr Penk, and make sure that when we\u2019re campaigning on the campaign trail, we don\u2019t fall below our own standards, and make sure that we don\u2019t start to put out misinformation in an attempt to win an argument. This should be now for the New Zealand public. We\u2019ve had our two years. We\u2019ve had our hours and hours and hours of debate and this is where we are. We trust them to put us here; we should trust them with their own futures, however it lies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe reason why I believe that the New Zealand public should welcome a referendum, particularly a referendum in this style: the bill is there for you to see. The regulatory impact statement is there for you to see. There will be rules around the information that can be placed before you and who can place it before you, making sure as best as we can that it will be truthful and factual and honest. But it also gives you a very clear choice\u2014probably, I think, for the first time I\u2019ve seen in my life\u2014of what the question is: \u201CYes, I support the End of Life Choice Act 2017 coming into force.\u201D, or \u201CNo, I do not support the End of Life Choice Act 2017 coming into force.\u201D This is clearer than it has ever been before for the New Zealand public about what they are voting on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI need the New Zealand public to know this: \u201CIf this Act does not come into force under subsection (1) within 5 years after the date on which it receives the Royal assent, this Act is repealed.\u201D What it means is should there be a change of Government and should there be a change of mind in the make-up of the Government, if the New Zealand public wish this bill to be implemented\u2014if the majority vote Yes\u2014then that Government needs to implement it. If it does not, the bill automatically repeals after five years. This is an important moment for the New Zealand public. If this bill passes this third reading, they have never had a power like this, I believe, in my lifetime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThis is incredibly serious, and we need the New Zealand public to know how serious it is, and that is on us. If this passes and it now goes into the public domain, it is on us to be the grown-ups, to carry the respect that has been shown in this House, to lead by example, and to go out there and help the New Zealand public be as informed as possible, be as respectful to each other as possible, and make the choice that they believe that this House should implement. So New Zealand First will be casting all their votes in favour of this bill so that the New Zealand public will be able to make up their mind. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00225e9fa27dece44333a3ae07bd07d66790\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e9fa27dece44333a3ae07bd07d66790\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have spoken at no previous reading of this bill, and today I speak. If this bill passes, I am the only person in this House who will be permissioned to euthanise New Zealanders. This weighs heavily on me. In this contribution, I will speak with three voices: the voice of the medical practitioner, the voice of a M\u0101ori, and the voice of a New Zealand citizen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ETo the first, as a doctor, I proudly add my name to 1,500 medical practitioners and ask the House not to pass this bill. I will not traverse the arguments of slippery slope and the signals it sends to our at-risk disabled, but instead I ask us to reflect on the last time we accompanied a sick, older person to a doctor\u2014maybe a mother, a friend, a father, aunt, or elderly person. In that moment of need and relationship of trust, we knew that the doctor was working as hard as they can to return our loved one to the very best physical, mental, and social condition possible. There are no other options. There is no other agenda. There is no other step. The backstop that commands the doctor is to return that person to the best condition possible. If this bill passes, another option is created. There is a next step\u2014the backstop changes. It changes to one where euthanasia may be a next step, and in doing so, it will change the very fabric of the doctor-patient relationship. I don\u2019t want an option of anything other than the very best care I can provide. If this bill passes, I cannot imagine the spectre of euthanasia\u2014ever-present, looming over every single consultation, there but not there, present but unspoken until it is dared to be given light. This bill dims the privilege of care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI turn, then, to my second voice and draw on what it means for me to be M\u0101ori, and in that context, this bill gives me grave foreboding. I understand some concepts of Te Ao M\u0101ori\u2014where we came from, why we\u2019re here, where we are going\u2014but my sense is that we reach here beyond where we are meant to reach. Just because we can doesn\u2019t mean we should. But there are others in this House who I\u2019ve communicated with in the past 24 hours who are more knowledgeable in matters of this, more knowledgable in tikanga M\u0101ori than I, and so I pose the question to them. Taku tung\u0101ne Peeni Henare, I value your opinion. It\u2019s not that many years past when you and your young family trusted me with my advice. Do you trust me now? Do you trust the very best summary I can make of the matter in front of us? I ask you to put all of this aside and tell me: what does your M\u0101ori heart say on this matter? Aku tung\u0101ne and tuahine Willie Jackson and Nanaia Mahuta, I value your opinion. You both walk closer to Te Ao M\u0101ori than I do, and so ask you also: what does your M\u0101ori heart say? This M\u0101ori heart says no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn my third and final voice, I ask the House to consider this: the bill in front of us offers euthanasia to those with serious conditions who are likely to live less than six months. What important human endeavours would be absent from this world if great composers and artists with terminal conditions had been euthanised before their final works were completed? I will name three. Franz Schubert was ill for many months before his death in 1828, with physician Ernst Rinna confirming that he was \u201Cill beyond cure and likely to die soon.\u201D He was eligible for euthanasia, and yet on that long, last walk, in the last months of his life, he wrote three important piano sonatas in C minor, A major, and B flat. Under euthanasia, the brightness would be gone from the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn 1827, Ludwig Beethoven was dying with cirrhosis of the liver. He was eligible for euthanasia, and yet in his final months he completed some of his most admired work, including the substitute final movement of the String Quartet No. 13. Under euthanasia, this brightness would be gone from the world. Under euthanasia, this brightness would be gone from the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EFinally, Johann Bach was blind, and in his final months he had suffered a stroke. He was eligible for euthanasia. Yet, in those final months, he completed the hymn \u201CBefore Thy Throne I Now Appear\u201D, the first and only piece of music in which he inserted a melody from the letters of his surname, Bach, in German notation\u2014B flat, A, C, B natural. Under euthanasia, this brightness would be gone from the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI will conclude this contribution then with the words from that last piece by Bach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u201CSoul, body, honour, house, and friend,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ETo Thy protection I commend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EBeseeching Thine almighty grace\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ETo aid me, till I\u2019ve run my race;\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIt is our privilege to aid but not to end the race. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b581a92c611047068c30c202c098254e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b581a92c611047068c30c202c098254e\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this, the End of Life Choice Bill. I would like to acknowledge all the people who took the time to email me, to write to me in many forms through social media, and to speak to me in person with their varying views. Thank you for your respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI believe and support the concept of death with dignity and comfort, with the context of effective pain relief and loving care for those who are desperately ill and facing death. We all die. It is a natural phenomenon. I speak from my insights as someone who has experienced sharing a journey with my relations at the beginning of their death\u2014their final breath, through to the burial grounds or to the furnace at the crematorium. I have been at their bedside as they took their final breath. They passed away with dignity, despite their varying ages and their terminal illnesses. It was a spiritual experience to be with a dying person at the final stage of their life\u2014to feel their warmth fade away as they lay there peacefully and allowed us, the closest relations, the opportunity to release our pain in losing our loved ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ENo matter how the bill has been altered, I believe the core of the bill\u2014the purpose\u2014is to sanction in the law of the land the premature ending of a human life, as evidenced by the example of Canada, where an overwhelming majority that choose this pathway actually die at the hand of others. Someone did it; the majority didn\u2019t do it to themselves. For the people, communities, and the deeply held values I represent in these matters, the premature ending of human life at the hand of others is unethical and abandoning the values of respecting and protecting human life\u2014the core focus of so much of what we do in law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI was born in a village in H\u014Dfoa in a country called Tonga, based in the South Pacific. Dr Linita Manu\u2019atu, the chair of the Tongan Language Week committee, describes the Tongan people as spiritual and cultural, as reflected in Tonga\u2019s motto: Ko e \u2018Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi\u2018a. [God and Tonga are my inheritance.]\u2014God being spiritual; Tonga cultural.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAs a New Zealander by citizenship, I live in a country\u2014our country, Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014that opens its Parliament with a prayer. It begins with the words \u201CAlmighty God\u201D. Our very own New Zealand national anthem begins with \u201CGod of nations, at Thy feet,\u201D. I took the oath, the New Zealand Oath of Allegiance to the Queen, ending with \u201Cso help me God.\u201D I make the point that God is present in our nation\u2019s history and traditions, through parliamentary prayer, and through the national anthem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI stand with the religious leaders who stated in their email to me dated 7 November\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe understand both the need to balance, as well as the difficulty of balancing, individual choice with the common good \u2026 We also recognise the great distress faced by some patients and their wh\u0101nau and friends in the case of certain intractable and prolonged terminal illnesses. However, on balance, in the current circumstances, we firmly believe that legalising medically-assisted dying will open the gateway for many [unforeseen or foreseen] consequences \u2026 will be damaging to individuals, families and the social fabric of our communities.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EMy opposition to this bill is not about Christians forcing their opinions on to non-Christians. If anything, the sponsor and the supporters are themselves forcing their individual values on to others. Parliament\u2014and society in general\u2014is about competition and clash of causes and values. So the bill is the prime example of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAs a Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life, but that right and belief is enshrined in most nations\u2019 constitutional documents around the world, in the United Nations key covenants, in the historical development of democracy, in the rule of law, and in numerous other sources. Believing in the sanctity of life, and therefore opposing this bill, is not purely a Christian view, but it is a view based on different views of politics, the medical profession, philosophy, and various other disciplines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI am not sure whether this House noticed that for a year I was in tauanga\u2018a [mourning]. When I wore only black-coloured clothing from 12 October 2018 until 12 October 2019, I was mourning the loss of my fa\u2018\u0113-tangata , my maternal uncle, Nofovao-\u2018i-Taitai Semi Pule\u2018i Vai, Kanongata\u2018a. He was 76 years old when he passed away just over a year ago, a month short of his 77th birthday. He was diagnosed as terminal. However, he lived with cancer for a year and a half. What this bill proposes is that the choice of ending his life prematurely will now be an option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EOn behalf of my k\u0101inga, I want to extend our gratitude to all the doctors and nurses in Middlemore Hospital. The nurses were amazing. They cared for him with honour and respect. They made sure he was comfortable, and they made sure we, as a family, were always comfortable. The hospital staff kept their doors open as family members came in and out. They treated us with gentle kindness. They had done so many times before. We witnessed them tirelessly providing the same care to all the patients and their families. My point is that we as a family had an opportunity to laugh, to tell jokes, and for me, now and then, when I had time to leave Parliament\u2014I got a telling off; we had to laugh, but we laughed with our family member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI received an email yesterday from the Hon Meka Whaitiri, the email from Dr Aileen Collier. What stood out for me in the email information was that Dr Collier\u2019s information said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe first issue is the issue of choice. Choice can be an absence of other choices.\u201D Most people who support this bill do so because they want to defend people\u2019s right to choose, but I can tell you now that if you pass this bill, people will make this choice to die due to an absence of other choices. Dr Collier continues to talk about \u201CIf you pass this bill, we\u2019ll be in a mess. Conscious objection has not been improved through the SOP processes. Nurses are going to be involved.\u201D She further, in her email, states, \u201CThe job as a nurse is hard enough.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI acknowledge Dr Ate Moala, who today outside on the forecourt voiced the concerns of Doctors Say No, the 1,500 doctors echoed by my colleague there, Dr Shane Reti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the fact that not all Pacific people, or not all Tongans, are opposed to this bill. But, as someone from a collective, I want to say that this individual choice ends with their choice to end their life, but that is the beginning of the death process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI asked a colleague who supported this bill. I said, \u201CWhat about the cleaner?\u201D Has anyone ever thought about the dignity of the cleaner who has to clean up? Has anybody thought of the dignity of the person who digs the grave? Has anybody ever thought about the person who turns on the furnace? Has anybody ever thought about the dignity of the living people? The response to my question was \u201CSo what about the cleaner?\u201D Mr Speaker, and to this House, the point that I\u2019m trying to make is that it\u2019s an individual choice to end one\u2019s life, but that is just the beginning of the end of the life. That is the beginning of services provided by others. And when we say the word \u201Cservice\u201D, the people who provide those services fade away; they are not just \u201Cservice\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I want to again say thank you to the Rev. Hola Paea, and the church steward at the Papakura Tongan Methodist church that I attended on Sunday. I want to thank them for the encouragement of me to have the courage to stand in Parliament and confirm my faith as a Christian person. On that note, I oppose this bill on their behalf. M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022db42ddef51e04cdf8332e95ede770433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db42ddef51e04cdf8332e95ede770433\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve spoken on this bill a number of times during its passage through the House, and it will be no surprise to members that I\u2019ll be voting against it. I\u2019ve been clear in my view that this bill sets a dangerous precedent and poses a real threat to vulnerable New Zealanders. Any member who has taken the time to engage with this issue will be familiar with the arguments, which is why I\u2019ve chosen to focus my contribution not on the failings of this bill but on the abysmal process this bill has had through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EReflecting on my relatively short time in Parliament, I note members from all sides spend enormous amounts of time discussing issues which are relatively minor, taking part in the process in an open and transparent manner. However, when it comes to this issue\u2014an issue of life and death\u2014the process has been manipulated with deals made in closed rooms and MPs hiding behind a referendum, too afraid to make the tough decisions that we\u2019re elected here to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ERight from the day this bill came up for its first reading, the processes of Parliament were used to advance this bill\u2019s cause. At the first reading, tricks were played to bring the debate forward to a members\u2019 day when it wasn\u2019t expected; designed to ensure members were caught off guard. At the select committee stage, despite more submissions being made on this bill than any other piece of legislation this Parliament has ever seen, the member in charge of this bill, David Seymour, simply ignored the 90 percent of submissions which were opposed to this bill, instead formulating his own sponsor\u2019s report, which ignored the changes proposed by the Justice Committee and ignored the input of those who submitted. While I commend the work of the select committee, the sponsor\u2019s actions show his lack of respect for this process. At the committee of the whole House, the sponsor not only waited to table his Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 259 the day before the debate started but he voted against every single amendment raised by anyone, other than what he proposed in his own SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESerious issues have been ignored, such as the rights of doctors, hospice, and palliative care experts to conscientiously object to this process. Increasing the age of eligibility to an appropriate age to ensure that youth don\u2019t qualify for assisted suicide: voted down. Ensuring that family members are at least informed of the fact that their loved one is ending their life by assisted suicide or euthanasia: voted down. Adequately protecting the rights of those with disabilities: voted down. These significant amendments and many, many more were voted down by the member in charge and those in support of the bill, with very few MPs who support the bill even contributing to the committee of the whole House, and some only contributing by trying to have a closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd then came the deals. A deal made with the Green Party whereby they would support this bill in a block, on the basis of a few changes to the eligibility criteria for this bill. The party which considers itself the conscience of the nation refuses its members to be able to exercise a conscience vote on a bill of this magnitude\u2014not only on the bill as a whole but on every single SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe other deal was made with the New Zealand First Party, whereby this bill would go to a referendum at the next election. This not only cynically secured nine votes for this bill but is giving MPs the opportunity to hide behind a referendum rather than actually voting on their conscience here in this House today. The cynicism not only extended to the New Zealand First Party but to MPs on both sides of this House who voted for a referendum despite being opposed in principle to referendums. With these two deals, 17 MPs will not be casting conscience votes here tonight\u2014something which could materially change the outcome of this bill if they were given that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWith all of these cynical backroom deals and disregard for the process, it is symbolic of what this bill stands for. Our elderly and our sick will be put at risk of being abused, manipulated, and processes in this bill being ignored, and the rights of doctors and patients set aside in the name of choice. If parliamentary process has been run in this manner, how can we trust that the bill\u2019s processes won\u2019t also be abused? And if they are, well, the person involved will be dead, with no opportunity for redress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis is a conscience vote, and for good reason. The member in charge started his speech by talking about polling numbers. In fact, that\u2019s basically all he\u2019s talked about; the only correspondence I\u2019ve ever received from the member in charge is telling me how many National Party people support this bill. He was asking me to consider my majority at the next election rather than the principles and the detail of this bill. I understand and respect the views of people in my electorate who disagree with me on this issue, and I\u2019m open to Mr Seymour\u2019s polling numbers being proven right. But it offends me to think that David Seymour simply boils this life and death issue down to a few polling numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI came to Parliament to make the hard decisions, to look at the evidence, and to make a decision; not to be swayed by polls with leading questions. This issue is about the most vulnerable. I have opposed, and I will continue to oppose, this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u002236d3fa29110f4729bc0d386c50c84081\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236d3fa29110f4729bc0d386c50c84081\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any member of this House, regardless of their position, who hasn\u2019t given this issue their utmost thought. That has been reflected through the debate not only in this Parliament but also largely out in the public domain. I\u2019d like to thank David Seymour, in particular, for his advocacy on the issue. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the many thousands of people who have emailed MPs\u2014I think it was 7,500 at the last count, and I can assure you they have been read\u2014and also the 200 or so people who have turned up to public meetings in Ashburton and Timaru and, I\u2019m sure, throughout the country as well. Thank you to those of you here today, regardless of your position, and also, I\u2019m sure, to many people watching the debate or following it at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe are conscious in this House that not every person is able to have a voice in this Parliament. With the House\u2019s indulgence, I would like to give voice to one of those people today. Her story is not unique and her story is not the reason that I\u2019m voting for this bill. Her name is Roslyn, and her sister Gina died after 12 years of suffering from a rare and debilitating illness. It robbed Gina of everything that she enjoyed. She was bedridden and lost the ability to speak. Gina could tolerate no light and very little sound. She took to wearing an eye mask taped to her face, and earplugs to dull the sounds that we treat as normal but that she described as a screaming siren going off non-stop all day and night. She could swallow only thin liquids; even pureed food was too much to handle. The pressure all over her emaciated body meant that she rolled herself from side to side all day and night in a ceaseless attempt to escape her pain. But there was no escaping the painful pressure caused by muscle wasting leaving her bones protruding on all sides down her spine, hips, joints, and limbs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIn Gina\u2019s care facility, she had access to expert palliative care, dedicated medical professionals, and loving family and friends. Yet her suffering continued to grow daily. Morphine was completely ineffective for her pain, as were her other medications and attempts to palliate her agony. Gina was in irreversible decline, but she knew that she only had unrelenting pain ahead of her. So, eventually, she found a way to end her suffering\u2014alone and unsupported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI met with Roslyn earlier this year, and I repeat her words now because Roslyn cannot. Like her sister Gina, Roslyn has been diagnosed with the same rare illness. She cannot speak, and, like Gina, now can only communicate through written word or touch screen. She knows her condition will continue to decline, and she too will end up bedridden like Gina. The sad irony is that despite her illness, Roslyn\u2019s present condition is not terminal, and yet for others she is determined to fight for what Gina could not achieve: a change in the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI agree that euthanasia should never be commonplace and that vulnerable people must be protected. We have excellent palliative care that works for most people, and we can improve it even more. But it does not work in all cases. I cannot in good conscience force people like Roslyn to go through the same tortured existence that her sister Gina had suffered, when another choice is available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002281e4e57905714aa9bce708114cef2b06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281e4e57905714aa9bce708114cef2b06\u0022\u003EADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Hau\u0101uru):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau katoa. I want to focus in on wh\u0101nau and everything that makes up a good wh\u0101nau, a strong wh\u0101nau, because that\u0027s what we want all the time. We want our families to be strong, and it\u0027s a difficult place to be strong. We know that there are health inequities in our health system. We know this because the Waitangi Tribunal have told us that. We know that because there are countless reports about that very issue. And yet here we are about to potentially pass a bill which will not add to the strength of our families. It will, in actual fact, make it more difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWe talk about kaupapa M\u0101ori. Terms that just roll off our tongue\u2014manaakitanga, rangatiratanga, aroha. It even frames our international identity. But will it frame what we want for our families in this bill? I say it will not. It cannot, because it\u0027s fundamentally opposed to those kaupapa. And I stand here in opposition to this bill on behalf of the constituents of Te Tai Hau\u0101uru. I held eight public hui. Overwhelmingly, the people that attended told me that they did not want this bill, and I feel honour bound to respect their decision. But it\u0027s an easy decision for me to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EWe have right now something called Te Arawhiti\u2014the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship. Does this add anything to that relationship? We\u0027ve heard the story about the bridge. That\u2019s what Te Arawhiti is\u2014that, on one side, you have M\u0101ori; on another side, you have the Crown. And it\u0027s M\u0101ori that have to keep going to the other side to have the issues that it is concerned with addressed. This bill does not go to the M\u0101ori side. It had the opportunity to\u2014small opportunity to\u2014and I acknowledge my whanaunga, the member for Whanganui, Harete Hipango, who put up a Supplementary Order Paper to that effect. It was voted down. That is a bridge that needs to be traversed. This is not the bill that addresses important issues like that. It will disadvantage M\u0101ori further in a system which already disadvantages M\u0101ori. The health inequities are significant. We cannot continue to pass bills that continue to affect M\u0101ori and others in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThere are other bridges to get over. There\u0027s a bridge called the vulnerable elderly. We need to get over that bridge too. There\u0027s a bridge that we need to get over called those with disabilities. We\u2019ve heard from my colleague Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki about the issues for the Tongan people. There are serious ethnic disparities in our health system. This bill will be front and centre within that system, which we know already doesn\u0027t work for M\u0101ori, for Pasifika, and for ethnic minorities. We know; the stats don\u0027t lie. We need a better bill than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EFor those of you members who are voting for this bill, let me ask you to consider, to make sure that if you want to pass this bill, ask yourself, will it add to the disparities for ethnic peoples, for those who are most vulnerable, for M\u0101ori? I put that up in the same vein that Dr Shane Reti did in his contribution. I don\u0027t believe for one moment that this bill is going to address those serious issues. In fact, I predict that, within 10 years, we\u0027re going to be back here if this passes, because we know that M\u0101ori are seriously affected by these sorts of decisions. I cannot vote for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00221cc712db2f6e49f886e8c5329487f608\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cc712db2f6e49f886e8c5329487f608\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I want to acknowledge my friend David Seymour, the sponsor of this bill. All members of Parliament come here wanting to make a contribution for the betterment of New Zealand, but not everyone manages to do so. David, if this bill passes tonight and the referendum succeeds\u2014and I believe both will\u2014then you will have made an enormous contribution to New Zealand. You\u2019ll have made New Zealand a more compassionate society, a more decent society, a more humane society. People forget, I think, sometimes that this bill was actually drawn in the last Parliament. Two and a half years on, we are debating the third reading. David has shepherded the bill through that arduous process. David, I\u2019ve known you for over 15 years. I know that you are deeply committed to a better and freer New Zealand. I\u2019m proud to call you a mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ETo the bill: my starting point when the bill was drawn was human agency and self-determination. I came into this Parliament as a liberal, and I am determined to leave as a liberal. In my maiden speech, I said that a fundamental belief in the primacy of the individual over the collective should be the lodestar that guides good Governments. I said that we should trust individuals more than we do, and I stand by those words. This bill upholds individual dignity. It affirms individual autonomy. It sanctifies self-determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI sat on the Justice Committee that considered this bill. I\u2019ve had numerous people come and see me about it. I visited my local hospice. I\u2019ve read widely on it. I\u2019ve done my research. And I want to make five fundamental points that stand out for me at the end of this extended and long debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe first point is that the status quo is, or should be, fundamentally intolerable to a civilised and humane society. Palliative care is a wonderful thing, but it cannot end all pain and suffering. That was accepted by both sides of the argument in Seales v Attorney-General. Many doctors have come to see me; almost all accepted that there were rare circumstances when palliative care could not ease all suffering, when people died horrible, painful deaths. Those deaths are a reality we must recognise. I do not accept the argument that has been put by some that painful death is just something we should accept, that it is God\u2019s will. Pain is a part of life, but it seems cruel and heartless to not try and ameliorate suffering when we can do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make is that, in the absence of legalised assisted dying, people take matters into their own hands. There is extensive research about this from both New Zealand and overseas. From 1900 to 2000, the research suggests that somewhere between 3 percent and 8 percent of suicides were committed by people rational, competent, and suffering a terminal illness. In a substantial number of those cases, it was expressly found that the deceased had ended their life because they still retained the ability to do so but they believed they would not be able to do so if they waited any longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third point is that medically assisted dying happens now. That is a reality the House must recognise. Doctors admit it; the research supports it. We need to recognise that it happens already, but now we have the chance\u2014a once-in-a-generation opportunity\u2014to regulate it properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe fourth point is that it is not beyond the wit of humans to design a system that stops terrible suffering by a few while avoiding harm to others. Two hundred million people live in a country or a jurisdiction with assisted dying laws. This bill has been through an extensive process. It has comprehensive safeguards based on international best practice. I believe it is a good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe fifth point that I want to stress is that the bill merely hastens death; on average, by 10 days. We need to remember that people who qualify for eligibility are going to pass on anyway; they have a terminal illness. The evidence suggests it hastens death by 10 days. The evidence also suggests some people who are eligible will choose not to take it up, but the knowledge they have the ability to do so to exercise that option is comfort enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ETonight, the House has a once-in-a-generation opportunity to remove the invidious choice presented to some people under the status quo. We currently deny terminally ill people the choice of dying at a time of their choosing, with their autonomy recognised, and their dignity affirmed. Instead, we give them an invidious choice: take your own life, often dangerously, or suffer needlessly. We can do better. Tonight we have the chance to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022 data-id=\u00228a22b7b967284f16b7fb4173a42e9ad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a22b7b967284f16b7fb4173a42e9ad1\u0022\u003EHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Pacific Peoples):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. We in this House are generally unequivocal in our support for fundamental freedoms and human rights. We support the right to work; the right to live free of discrimination; the right to health, housing, education, justice, social, and economic wellbeing. As a nation, we support the principle of solidarity and we pool our resources to ensure these rights are promoted and protected. We support the right to religious freedom. We support the right to life. We support the right to control what happens to a person\u2019s body and to make medical decisions for themselves. We want these rights for everyone, but one can\u2019t protect collective rights unless we also protect individual rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003ETonight, most of us will cast a conscience vote on the End of Life Choice Bill. This conscience vote means we are to use our own individual moral sense of right and wrong to cast a vote on a matter that\u2019s often highly sensitive or will potentially divide our communities. This is where it becomes complicated. We are given the opportunity to cast our vote based on our individual moral sense of right and wrong on an issue that\u2019s important to a section of our society, but we are doing it in the political arena. The political arena complicates things, because it isn\u2019t a simple yes or no answer. Other parties have come to a consensus to vote as a block.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAt my first reading speech, I had outlined that this wasn\u2019t a new issue, and the previous Parliament had already undergone a rigorous, comprehensive review, and it got declined by the previous Parliament. Mr Seymour has picked it up afresh and has secured considerable support through this House at first and second reading. I want to acknowledge those who seek to get this bill passed for the pursuit of their personal right and autonomy of decision making. I acknowledge the submissions that I have received, both for and against, for the passing of this End of Life Choice Bill. I thank the submissions from individuals and religious leaders of church organisations. I understand the concerns that they\u2019ve raised and appreciate the respectful manner in which many have raised their concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EMay I say to those who have argued strongly for or against, based on their strong beliefs, religious or otherwise, I ask them to consider that all of us fundamentally have free agency. All of us have the right to make choices; the right to choose for ourselves. Just because one feels strongly about their own personal beliefs, doesn\u2019t give them the right to try and force their will on others or abuse others who hold a different view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI absolutely have no opposition to their right to hold or share their beliefs, but I ask that it be done with an appreciation that we must also cherish the right for people to choose and recognise the gift of free agency that belongs to everyone. Sometimes we see an intolerance of other people\u2019s beliefs and bullying or threatening behaviour towards those who have a different belief. We must pursue a state where we can debate with persuasion and still maintain peaceful and respectful relationships. After all, we are all connected, and what happens to one group will affect another group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EI want, in particular, to acknowledge the submissions of many in the medical profession in New Zealand and those whose occupations it is to provide care to the sick, the young, the elderly, and disabled. I acknowledge that when they have made a personal commitment to dedicate their lives in the work of caring, saving, and protecting other people\u2019s lives, the passage of this bill raises genuine concerns for them and that workforce. I support the right to life; however, I also support the right of those who seek to have the autonomy to end their lives who are suffering from a terminal illness. How then does one compromise between two opposing fundamental principles: protecting the right to life versus the autonomy to end one\u2019s life? Whilst we cherish and champion fundamental human rights in this place, we in this political arena often will pass laws that attempt to balance out the protection of individual human rights against the taking away of the rights from the few. We do this all the time in the political arena.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EFinally, in my search for guidance, I have looked into my own cultural framework of decision making. Our Pacific MPs are divided on this, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with that. I have a different world view. The Samoan word for health is soifua maloloina. It literally means life in a state of wellbeing or wellness. The death of one affects the group, especially the next generation. Therefore, weighty decisions are made by the collective in consideration of the impact on the individuals\u2019 lives in that collective, especially the young ones. The Samoan way of decision making is a collective decision-making. One\u2019s autonomy has to be balanced out with the effects and impact it has on individuals of that collective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b398827c-6bf5-403e-90dc-ff03205302a5\u0022\u003EAs the son of an elderly father of 81 years of age and not at his best health-wise, I\u2019m reminded by my covenant carved on my body: as long as any of my parents are alive, I am bound to do all I can to provide them with soifua maloloina. For that reason, I\u2019m voting no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002271c28bf0fb9e4fe3b3bc46c58868fd29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c28bf0fb9e4fe3b3bc46c58868fd29\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much and it\u2019s a privilege to speak in the third and final reading of the End of Life Choice Bill. I\u2019d like to start out by acknowledging all the members in the House today for the way in which you\u2019ve conducted yourselves over the last couple of years in a very professional, respectful, and well-thought-out manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to acknowledge everybody who\u2019s reached out throughout New Zealand to communicate with their MPs, and, in particular, to those in the great electorate of Northcote for your feedback; it\u2019s been really worth having that. In particular, I acknowledge Mary Panko from my own electorate. Mary, we do differ on this issue, but I would like to say that I have strong faith in you and I\u2019m proud to call you a member of the Northcote electorate. So thank you for the work that you do. I would also like to acknowledge the sponsor of the bill, David Seymour, for his commitment to helping people like Lecretia Seales who want to end their life in a dignified and compassionate way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThis is a divisive topic, in particular in my community. My community is considered much more representative of the New Zealand community in terms of the relative demographics and weight. I can say that my community is split on this topic. Surveys that I\u2019ve done and public meetings that I\u2019ve done have roughly come out fifty-fifty, give or take a few percentage points, on this topic. So the people in my community are split, but what the people that want this bill passed have said to me loud and clear is that they want tight controls to protect the most vulnerable citizens in our society. I do not have confidence that this bill that we\u2019re about to vote on today has the controls to protect our most vulnerable. Let me explain what exactly I mean by that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s start off with the eligibility criteria. They include already those that are terminally ill, but they also include those who suffer from a mental illness and depression. If we look at diagnosis and prognosis, of course we heard in the select committee process that doctors get it wrong all the time; it is based on probability, not by certainty. Next, the competency test: it\u2019s not consistent throughout. There\u2019s no need for a person to be mentally competent when the lethal dose is administered. Finally, on the eligibility criteria, this definition of unbearable suffering is still vague to me, and it could include suffering from poverty, loneliness, spousal death, or any such wider definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ENow to the process itself: there is no cooling-off period like what was recommended in other countries; 45 hours from the time that you sign to the time that it is administered. I would have preferred something more along the line of what was in Oregon: 15 days; or Victoria: nine days; or, in fact, Canada: going on 10 days. There is no mechanism where this is a last resort. There\u2019s no mechanism that says you must go down the palliative care route first, and that is another flaw in the process. Finally, in the process anybody can sign the proxy form, even those who stand to benefit from the death of the person itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo because of this, I do not have confidence in the bill that\u2019s going forward. I do not have confidence that putting this to the people of New Zealand is in the best interests of this country, and therefore I cannot support the End of Life Choice Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI do not believe in abdicating our responsibilities as members of Parliament. This is a representative democracy. The people of Northcote voted me here to represent them and their views and I have tried my best to do that on this topic, and especially on nuanced topics like this, the End of Life Choice Bill, where it is very complex and I myself have changed my position in the last two years on this topic, having initially come out in favour of it and now being opposed to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI am opposed to the third reading of this bill. I do not think that it is in the best interests for New Zealand at this time, given the state of the bill and the lack of protections that it has for our most vulnerable. So I will be opposed to this bill in the third and final reading. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022caff3287ca664183bc37016276087132\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caff3287ca664183bc37016276087132\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0101tou katoa i tae mai nei m\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa tino whakahirahira, t\u0113nei te mihi ki \u0101 t\u0101tou katoa ahakoa he rerek\u0113 ng\u0101 whakaaro, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ko te mea nui kei konei t\u0101tou i raro i te kaupapa o te kotahitanga. Ki ng\u0101 manuhiri i tae mai nei i t\u0113nei w\u0101, t\u0113nei te tino mihi ki a koutou. E m\u014Dhio m\u0101tou, t\u0113nei he kaupapa tino whakahirahira, tino taumaha i t\u0113nei w\u0101, engari, t\u0113nei te mihi ki a koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker. All of us who have gathered on this momentous occasion, I thank you all, regardless of the differences in opinion. The main thing is that we have come together. To the visitors who have arrived at this time, you have my many thanks. We know this matter is very important, very serious, but I would like to acknowledge you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour and a privilege to speak on this bill. Like Minister Tracey Martin, I thank David Seymour. I\u2019ve never been a fan of the ACT Party at all, ever, and Mr Seymour knows that, but he touched our hearts a little bit when he came out with his M\u0101ori whakapapa about a year ago\u2014that was one way in there, Mr Seymour. So congratulations to him for his mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI also want to thank Maggie Barry for her strong advocacy and challenging me all the time, constantly, even up till about five minutes ago. So thank you very much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e68b966aba48f0aaef5969186438c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df7903f16fe4959908dea6271c4507d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to Maggie Barry for those challenges. No, this is what the process has been, and it\u2019s a very important process and it\u2019s good to see the type of respect that\u2019s been shown in the House by all sides. Mihi ana ki a t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhen I first came into the debate, I brought my own personal experiences into this and I talked about my mother. Since this is the last k\u014Drero on this, it\u2019s proper that I talk about her again and a few other things, particularly around Te Ao M\u0101ori aspects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EMy mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer\u2014terminal death, I suppose; not cancer. She was given three months to live, last year. She\u2019s still around, but my mother, as I\u2019ve said in previous speeches, changed dramatically from the passionate, strong M\u0101ori leader that she was. June Temuranga Jackson, my mother, was the longest-serving Parole Board member in this country and led the urban M\u0101ori movement\u2014the only person I know who could shut John Tamihere up\u2014and she led us, in terms of advocating for urban M\u0101ori rights, for many years. She was seen as a mana wahine and we were all so proud of her, and we are all still very proud of her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut then she got sick, and she got so sick that for many of us in our wh\u0101nau\u2014some people have already heard this, but I need just to repeat it again. Many in our wh\u0101nau started changing their views, started changing their thoughts in terms of what should happen next with her, and then some of us swung in to the euthanasia side, with the view that Mum wasn\u2019t the Mum we were used to. My mother became a different person. It broke our hearts, but, you know, we were listening to the euthanasia arguments and they were very persuasive. So we were working things out. About five months ago, my mother looked like she was going to die. We were preparing for the tangi. She went into a coma. She was on the way out. And then somehow she came out of it all, woke up, stood up, walked out, and she\u2019s better today than she was 18 months ago. So our views changed again and mine did too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I went back to the other end\u2014of my good friend Adrian Rurawhe, where I\u2019ve always been, and I started thinking: \u201CNo, look, this euthanasia thing is just out of hand; life is everything; this is our whakapapa.\u201D\u2014all that sort of thing. But, along the way I\u2019ve been talking with not just M\u0101ori but people everywhere. And I\u2019ve started to realise that the kaupapa is more than just about Mum, even though I love my Mum dearly, and we\u2019re all shaped by our experiences. And along the way I\u2019ve been talking to the security in this Parliament and the cleaners and our drivers, and they\u2019ve all got experiences and we\u2019ve heard them all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EJust the other day, one of our drivers talked to me about his father, and he said, \u201CI wish Dad could have\u2014\u201D.You know how the protocols are with the drivers, but I asked him. I wanted to hear their views. And he said, \u201CYou know, I wish Dad had been able to go out with a bit of dignity.\u201D They talk about no pain, but he told me his father was in so much pain, it wasn\u2019t funny. And I take that into account, because these people mean something to me\u2014our security, our cleaners, our drivers; all their views matter. So I\u2019ve talked to P\u0101keh\u0101 and M\u0101ori everywhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThen I talked to my friend Frances Smiler-Edwards, who is so Christian\u2014even more so than Anahila over here. And, you know, we\u2019ve got them all here\u2014her and Mr Sio. Oh, yes. We\u2019re full of them\u2014we\u2019re so diverse in Labour. She is my friend\u2014so religious, so religious, and she had a daughter who got breast cancer, who was 39 years of age. Her daughter, she said, was suffering from her toes to the top of her head, in absolute pain. And my dear friend Frances Smiler said to her daughter, Ira, \u201CYou can\u2019t go, girl\u2014you can\u2019t go.\u201D This very religious wh\u0101nau\u2014and she suffered like you would not believe. She held on for her babies. She held on and she held on. And then she said, \u201CMum, I want to go.\u201D But Mum said, \u201CYou\u2019re not going nowhere.\u201D She eventually went, but my dear friend Frances has said to me since, \u201CI know my beliefs. I know how Christian I am. I know about wairua. I know about whakapapa. Someone has to talk for Ira\u2014someone has to talk for Ira.\u201D I said to Frances, \u201CI\u2019ll talk for Ira\u2014I\u2019ll talk for Ira\u201D, because there are so many Iras out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI respect the religious, the wairua thing\u2014all that. I respect it all, but there is another side. That\u2019s why last night I spoke with three of the most high-profile M\u0101ori leaders in this country\u2014three of the most high-profile M\u0101ori leaders in this country. I took this seriously. I tried to talk to everyone. Then I thought I\u2019d better go and talk to the flash ones last night. Two of them don\u2019t want me to mention their names. So I\u2019m answering Dr Reti, who I respect very much\u2014mihi nui ki a koe m\u014D t\u014D wero ki a au. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[A big thankyou for your challenge to me.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAnd the three of them\u2014I\u2019ll mention one of their names: Dame Iritana T\u0101whiwhirangi, matriarch, queen of the k\u014Dhanga reo movement. She said, \u201CMention my name.\u201D I said, \u201CI will\u201D, but the other two I can\u2019t. They all said this: they were tired of hearing that this bill was a breach of tikanga. They were tired of hearing that this was a violation of our culture. All were unanimous that, in their view, tikanga evolves, tikanga changes, and there is no one tikanga\u2014there is no one tikanga. All were unanimous that wh\u0101nau is everything\u2014no debate there\u2014and must be part of this process. Yet none of them thought that euthanasia was suicide. I know that\u2019s hard for my friends and wh\u0101nau in our M\u0101ori caucus, but I\u2019m only relating what they\u2019re saying. All of them thought that euthanasia was dying with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ETheir views were fascinating to me. One of them said and felt that suicide most times is about depression, desperation, stress, and living without hope, whilst another one felt\u2014these are the two men; I can\u2019t give their names\u2014that suicide was the squandering of one\u2019s life. The other person, as I said, who I\u2019m allowed to name, the 90-year-old Dame Iritana T\u0101whiwhirangi said this: her life is her life and her wonderful body is her body, and she\u2019d do anything she liked with it\u2014our 90-year-old kuia, and M\u0101ori in the House know how wonderful this kuia is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat really resonated with me was the k\u014Drero from one of these very esteemed leaders\u2014because this challenge of tikanga is so important in terms of M\u0101ori\u2014he said his views about tikanga are this: tikanga is about dignity and mana. He said that the most important tikanga is mana, and the ultimate indignity is living without mana. That resonates with me, and I hope it resonates within the House. When I heard those words from him last night, it touched me very much, whether you agree or disagree. He says that mana is everything\u2014for M\u0101ori, for P\u0101keh\u0101. That means dignity is everything. He also says that our old people say that death isn\u2019t the end anyway, but just the beginning. Kia ora an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022825fe0299bb043f89643fbe231c06d0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022825fe0299bb043f89643fbe231c06d0e\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. New Zealand Parliament was first constituted on 26 May 1854. The very first debate was not about sheep or banking or even education. In fact, the very first debate was actually about prayer. In Hansard it records, \u201CThere should be an acknowledgment of dependence on the Divine Being, and that prayers should be made for a blessing on their labours\u201D. Since that day, for over 165 years, we have had\u2014though slightly paraphrased and recently changed, but the key principles remain the same, as you have presided in this place\u2014these words, \u201CLaying aside all personal interests, we pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the public welfare and peace of New Zealand.\u201D There is no better set of guiding principles that should reflect how we conduct ourselves as MPs in the House of Representatives\u2014in the Parliament of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThere are three principles here: we must put aside our own personal interest and consider the interests of the minority and the majority; secondly, we must conduct the affairs with wisdom and humility\u2014in other words, avail ourselves of the best evidence, with robust debate\u2014and thirdly, we must seek the public welfare and peace of our nation, that is, ensure that what we decide into law will do no harm. I ask that we as 120 MPs in this Parliament, elected by party or electoral vote, consider those principles as we debate and eventually decide on this bill. The choosing of death over life\u2014it doesn\u2019t get any more serious than this. I want to then frame my speech on these three principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EFirstly, putting all personal interests aside. This bill is personal and affects all of us. I want to acknowledge the stories we have shared in this House. I want to honour the memories of those we have loved and those we have lost. Every day in this Parliament we have to scrutinise the merits of any legislation. We also have to take into account a wider set of views, and not just our own. I want to challenge the comments that were made, \u201CLet the public choose through the referendum.\u201D We have had 39,000 views shared through the submissions process\u2014the largest in 165 years of this Parliament. Over 90 percent have opposed this bill. The public have spoken: 93.5 percent of all health practitioners submitted against this bill and said that it was, in their words, unsafe. There were 1,800 oral submissions over those 23 months, in which people around the country wanted to be heard, wanted to make their views known. Again, over 90 percent opposed this bill. Many organisations who are at the coalface of providing aged and palliative care, like Hospice New Zealand, are strongly opposed to this bill because, and in their words, \u201CIt is unsafe.\u201D This is the tyranny of the minority because, you see, the majority have spoken. Never before have we had a majority of voices, of opinions, of those who are right across the whole of the health sector and of our community, who have spoken strongly. Ninety percent is, by far, a majority that cannot remain silent in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe second principle: we must conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility. In other words, avail ourselves of the best evidence, with robust debate. There are significant differences between this End of Life Choice Bill and the laws in Oregon, Victoria, and Canada. Several of these differences and the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) addressing them were rejected during committee stage without being debated. Many members of Parliament in this House, in the second reading, declared that due diligence should happen\u2014a robust debate\u2014but on many occasions that was not the case. Members abdicated the opportunity to debate, to ask questions, to make this bill safer than what it was when it came into this House. That was not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to just point out three of these points that actually indicate why this bill is unsafe, especially to the medical practitioners that are out there. First of all, there is no independent witness required at any stage of the process, including at death. SOP 211 was rejected without debate. In contrast, in Victoria\u2019s law, it requires a witness at the administration request and a witness at the administration of the lethal dose. In fact, in Oregon, two people are needed to witness the signing of the written request. It is also two in Victoria and in Canada.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe no prescribed cooling-off period, such as the minimum of 15 days in Oregon, nine days in Victoria, 10 days in Canada\u2014that cooling-off period is the opportunity where people may change their mind and their opinion. The only time frame specified in this bill is 48 hours from the writing of the prescription to the chosen time of death.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESpecialist medical knowledge is not required in this bill. Neither of the two doctors need to be trained or experienced in the area of the person\u2019s illness or have vocational registration. This is not the case in Victoria or the case in Oregon. The Victorian legislation is far more restrictive than what is being proposed here, with 68 safeguards and a planned review after five years. Those of us that argued in this House on the premise that this bill would be compassionate and safe\u2014it does neither of these things. In other words, the majority of the health practitioners and, as has been said in this House, 1,500 who voted against this bill simply said this: \u201CSay no to this bill.\u201D Why? Because it is unsafe. Are there others? Seventeen health practitioners\u201417 doctors only\u2014against 1,500. That is the majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThirdly, we must seek the public welfare and peace of our nation. That is to ensure that what we decide into law will do no harm. Laws are supposed to protect us all, but they are only useful if they are safe and practical. Everyone deserves a healthcare system based in a compassionate community that looks after all aspects of their wellbeing. This is what we should be focused on, rather than this bill. Modern dying is a public health issue that we need to better address together, in order to alleviate our shared human suffering. I want to quote some words from Dr Aileen Collier, who is a clinical nurse and specialist in international research and education in palliative care in New Zealand. She states, \u201CI am deeply concerned about the proposed change in law. Most people who support this bill do so because they want to defend people\u2019s right to choose, but I can tell you now that if you pass this bill, people will make this choice to die due to an absence of other choices. It might be social isolation, financial worries, not wanting to be a burden, concern about placement in aged residential care.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EEquity of palliative and end of life care is a significant issue for M\u0101ori and Pacific. We know there are substantial issues across healthcare for M\u0101ori. We have a duty of care. Can I remind the House that it was this member, David Seymour, this sponsor, who also voted down the cultural competencies which are in practice\u2014are in law\u2014at the moment in the way we deal with M\u0101ori and Pacific and other ethnic groups. This member voted that down, would not allow this to come through. So where is the compassion? What will happen to those who are vulnerable in our communities? This is an unsafe bill. You might think you want freedom of choice, but I\u2019m asking you to consider those who lack that freedom, and I ask: how many people without access to real choices are we prepared to allow to die for the benefit of a privileged few who have a voice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn my summary, I state this: upon the walls of this Chamber are the plaques which recognise over 100 years of war. The decision to send our soldiers into harm\u2019s way meant we had to be sure there was absolutely no other alternative. We abolished the death penalty for capital punishment in 1989 because we knew that we could get it wrong and people who were innocent could die. I ask that all of us hold ourselves under the same level of accountability. I want us to urge all 120 members of this Parliament: can we guarantee that this bill will do no harm? If there is even a fraction of doubt, then vote No to this bill. Do not allow this bill to change the social values of this country. The sponsor of the bill has already admitted there will be some unfortunate casualties for the greater good. This bill will do harm. This bill will ensure that we change the value of life in our communities and in our nation. There is the tyranny of the minority here today, but it is our opportunity. I ask and I urge all members of this House \u201CLaying aside all personal interests, we pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the public welfare and peace of New Zealand.\u201D I oppose this bill. [Applause in gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022e80fed52f06b499584c80c7587a39de3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e80fed52f06b499584c80c7587a39de3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022422d0ff2b40d4d10ab3f8402449d3939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022422d0ff2b40d4d10ab3f8402449d3939\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real privilege to speak in this debate on the End of Life Choice Bill. It\u2019s the first time I have taken a call in the debates on this bill. I guess I was disappointed to hear a previous speaker try and shame the MPs that haven\u2019t spoken yet on this bill about not taking a call. I am absolutely convinced that every single person, every single MP in this Parliament, has done their due diligence, has taken all the feedback, listened to as many of the wide-ranging opinions as are out there as possible. So I don\u2019t believe that any one of us should feel ashamed for not taking a call in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EThere is no right or wrong in this debate, but there is obviously a huge division of views and emotions are running high in this debate. It\u2019s based on deeply personal and moral views. There are different views, as we heard, from different cultures, and it\u2019s not confined to New Zealand because this is a worldwide debate. I was born and raised in the Netherlands. The Netherlands was a country that was the first in the world to make it legal for doctors to help people die. The Dutch law that came in in 2002 applies to both euthanasia and assisted dying, and it, basically, codified practices that had developed over a long period of time, and I would like to talk a little bit\u2014take some of this call to talk a little bit\u2014about the legislation in the Netherlands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019m not a member of the Justice Committee who had the mammoth task of listening to more than 3,000 submitters, I volunteered to be part of some of the subcommittees, so I had the privilege to listen to many dozens of the submitters that came before the select committees and told their often very brave, heartfelt, deeply emotional stories. And I also, unfortunately, heard many misunderstandings and lots of much-repeated misinformation about how the law operates in the Netherlands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ETwo decades of research on euthanasia in the Netherlands have resulted in valuable insights into frequency and characteristics of euthanasia and other medical end of life decisions in that country. These studies have contributed significantly to the quality of the public debate and the regulating and public control of euthanasia and assisted dying. Those studies show that no slippery slope seems to have occurred. People in the Netherlands are proud of their legislation. They are proud of the fact that people are given compassionate and genuine choice when they believe they\u2019re at the end of their lives. A lot of the scaremongering about the law in the Netherlands is just that. It is not based on facts and it saddens me. It saddens me that so much misinformation has become part of the campaigning by those against the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ERecently, we had a Dutch medical expert, Dr Theo Boer\u2014he visited our Parliament to talk about euthanasia legislation in the Netherlands and he made a comment that has been omitted from many of the speeches by members who were at that meeting. What he said was that while he doesn\u2019t support euthanasia any more\u2014he has changed his mind\u2014he also did say that the New Zealand bill is better than the Dutch legislation. And at the end of the meeting, I went up to him and I asked him what he meant by saying that our bill is better than that of the Netherlands, and he said our bill, the New Zealand bill, is confined to those suffering a terminal illness that is likely to end their lives within six months. And that significant change that was made to our New Zealand bill was made because we have listened and taken into account the feedback from the submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to tell two different stories from two different people both diagnosed with a terminal illness. The first story is Kerry Robertson. She was 61 when she died in a nursing home in July of this year. That was only weeks after Australia\u2019s only euthanasia legislation came into force in the state of Victoria. The previous speaker, Alfred Ngaro, mentioned that legislation. She was the very first person to end her life under the new assisted dying laws in the state of Victoria. Relatives said that her final moments were beautiful and peaceful. Kerry\u2019s daughter described it as follows: \u201CWe were beside her, David Bowie playing in the background, surrounded by love, with final words spoken, simple and dignified.\u201D Her daughter also said, \u201CBefore this happened I was afraid of death, but Mum was incredibly brave and the way that she died gave me a whole new perspective on death itself.\u201D Now, for me, I read that story and I felt it was a story of compassionate choice for people at the end of their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI said I had two stories. The other story I would like to tell is a story that deeply moved me from one of the submitters that came to our subcommittee and told his personal story of his elderly mother. You have to forgive me for having forgotten his name\u2014we saw lots of people\u2014but his story will forever be with me. He told the story of his mother, who was diagnosed with a terminal illness and at some point her suffering became so intolerable she saw no end. She didn\u2019t want to continue, and she tried to kill herself. She was an elderly lady. She tried to hang herself from the ceiling and she failed, got into hospital, came out, and she tried it again and she failed again. Then one night, as he described to us, she got up out of the warm bed that she shared with her husband in her nightie. She went outside, walked off the pier and jumped into the water, and she drowned. There were no goodbyes. There were no final words. And this man and his family were obviously grief-stricken with the fact that they never, ever had the chance to say goodbye to their mother, and I don\u2019t think he will ever be able to live with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003ESo for me, comparing the two stories made it really clear that I believe that people should have that genuine, compassionate choice when they believe they\u2019re at the end of their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EOn a very personal note, when I did my maiden speech, I congratulated my great-grandmother on getting to her 98th birthday the day before. And I said I hoped she was listening because quite often she got the frequencies on her radio mixed up. Only two weeks after that, she stopped eating and I had no idea that she was in that frame of mind. She stopped eating and my husband and my son, who were over to visit in a weekend, saw her while she was still conscious. I came home on Tuesday\u2014no, it must have been a Thursday\u2014from Parliament. I went to see her and she was already unconscious, so I never was able to say my goodbyes. And again, I feel that that compassionate choice that you give people to be able to say a proper goodbye and do all the final wording that you need to do is so important. And therefore, with my whole heart, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257200b62999740a6ac38bc798ccbed85\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd2c1dfbd7ae43308327a66ee5cb2e56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd2c1dfbd7ae43308327a66ee5cb2e56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Michael Woodhouse. I want to tell people we are now doing five-minute contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae99eaf2266b4d4c90993b88df07dfa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae99eaf2266b4d4c90993b88df07dfa6\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to commence my intervention by paying tribute to the many thousands of doctors, nurses, allied health professionals, and volunteers up and down the country who dedicate their lives every day to the service of our ill, infirm, and elderly in aged residential care, in palliative care, and in hospice care, many of whom will be listening to this debate overwhelmingly with a heavy heart, but also, I think, some frustration at the lack of understanding of the work that they do every day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve all shared stories of loved ones passing on. Almost all of us have not been involved in that in a professional capacity, and yet many of us claim expertise in this area. My arthritis doesn\u2019t make me an expert in rheumatology, breaking a leg on the rugby field doesn\u2019t make me similar to an orthopaedic surgeon, and watching a loved one die does not make me an expert in end of life care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think it behoves us to listen more carefully to what those professionals have said about what can and cannot be done. I\u2019m minded to quote recently retired geriatrician Professor David Richmond, who wrote, about 18 months ago, this: \u201CIn more than 40 years of medical practice as a physician, geriatrician, and terminal care manager, I cared for many dying people. My testimony is that I have never seen a person dying with unmanageable suffering.\u201D He went on to say: \u201CWe cannot judge the effectiveness of today\u2019s palliative care by comparing it with what was available even just 10 years ago.\u201D We\u2019ve heard, quite rightly, actually, that there is pain and there is suffering, not only by the terminally ill person but by their loved ones, but the issue is of \u201Cirremediable\u201D pain and suffering. I will repeat the offer that I made to the sponsor of the bill in Timaru, 18 months ago, that I would support this bill if it were restricted to cover only those conditions that are resistant to effective palliative care. And, of course, we\u2019re not\u2014we\u2019re talking about a much broader range of self-declared irremediable conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E[Professor David Richmond\u2019s surname was originally spelt incorrectly; text corrected.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI actually want to remind the House that the sponsor of the bill has accused doctors of acting with murderous intent by using surveys that were fundamentally flawed, in my view, to suggest that 4.5 percent of them have ended the lives of their patients, as some kind of nod and a wink to euthanasia, right now. That is offensive to doctors. That survey was flawed. He sent it to me, I examined it; it is wrong. And, indeed, if that were the case\u2014and the issue is actually that it\u2019s very difficult to take one\u2019s life, in fact; it\u2019s almost impossible to do so with terminal sedation. The research is very clear on that. But, actually, paradoxically, the fear that that could happen actually means that people often receive less pain management than they need, and suffer unnecessarily. The solution to this is not this bill. It is actually better education, and more staff trained in understanding end of life care so that those wonderful men and women in our health profession can wrap that support of the family and of the terminally ill person around them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to just put on record once again my grave concern, and, indeed, the sponsor\u2019s reassurances\u2014although it\u2019s an unusual one\u2014for the choice that was denied institutions to say no to allowing end of life choice in their institutions. The member in the committee of the whole House said, \u201CNowhere in this bill is any institution required to do anything.\u201D I don\u2019t see where the logic is in being able to object conscientiously to something that an institution isn\u2019t required to do in the first place. He misunderstood what I was saying about Canada; I never said that institutions had been closed down, but I did provide proof that there is coercive pressure being put on faith-based organisations in Canada to provide euthanasia. The member has said that will not happen; I hope he\u2019s right. I continue to oppose this bill and will continue to support the right of institutions to contentiously object. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221c2f8745fb894c848e6a254e6f33b676\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c2f8745fb894c848e6a254e6f33b676\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is my first contribution on this bill. In the early New Zealand Parliament, before the 1890s, I think, every vote by MPs was an individual choice because there weren\u2019t political parties, just loose alliances. In recent decades, conscience issues have often been harbingers of significant societal change, and they\u2019re big paradigm shifts. This is one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen I was elected as the member for Dunedin South, I was asked if I supported binding referendums and if I\u2019d check with my electorate before I exercised a conscience vote. It is my view that as a member of Parliament, you\u2019re elected by a majority of your constituency because you\u2019re trusted to act in their best interests and to be of sufficient good character to do that to the best of your ability. Each of us has a conscience. I can only exercise mine on these moral issues, and if I was to do a poll of my electorate and then exercise a conscience vote on that basis, it would not be my conscience. And, while a referendum is an extremely important part of our democratic process, the Parliament, ultimately, is sovereign, and the positions taken by parties or individuals on matters of importance are usually well known to the electorate before a general election, which, by definition, is the ultimate expression of democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI wish that we did not require a referendum at next year\u2019s election in order for this bill to pass its third reading today. It defeats the purpose of the intent of the bill and the ability of the majority of the legislators to fulfil their elected roles. But the choice was to not support the referendum amendment and see the bill fail and likely have to wait another decade or to vote for the referendum amendment and give the bill a greater chance to become law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EEveryone brings their own context to the end of life issue, and I wish to share mine with you. In my twenties, I lived for a time in Wellington. A friend from my days at Otago University introduced me to his mother, who was dying from a serious lung-related illness. Her life was terribly constrained. She was unable to leave the house. She lived in a bubble\u2014literally, a dust-free environment, protected from the outside contaminants. She was slowly slipping away. Unbeknown to me, she was determined to leave the world, which she did at a time of her own choosing with the help of her son. I remember feeling very confronted by this, but I never judged her decision or that of her son to assist her. I believe that it was her choice, made in full knowledge of the implications, and this is what I want for myself, should it ever be necessary. I do, however, accept that this is not the choice of all, and I absolutely respect the right of people not to make that choice and to die in whatever manner nature or palliative care determines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also absolutely believe that protections should be put in place for those who are not able to make such a decision and for those who would not support being part of a decision made by somebody that they love or who they are caring for in the health system. I, like many others who support this bill, am not blind to the real challenges around coercion, around the safeguards for the disabled and the vulnerable. I am not blind to the pressures on health practitioners who either do or don\u2019t support this bill passing into law. But I believe that the provisions in the amended version address those concerns, based on international best practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EUltimately, this is a bill of conscience. Not everyone\u2019s conscience is the same. Our belief systems develop differently, rooted in a set of values. Mine are drawn mainly from my background growing up in the Catholic Church, where compassion, social justice, and fairness were drummed into us. But there have always been parts of Catholicism that don\u2019t sit well with me, particularly the hypocrisy of its institutional practice. Ultimately, I took a secular path based on values. I respect the views of all who have stood in this House and expressed their views. I respect all who have written and emailed me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7052a662824abc84aaf837ea2cbe09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022aab38e0cc08e4f2da65b9eee36baf262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aab38e0cc08e4f2da65b9eee36baf262\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to be able to stand and speak in this, the third reading of the End of Life Choice Bill. It is a privilege to be able to stand and speak my position based on my conscience, my life experience, my culture, and my faith. It is a privilege to speak in representation of not just the Catholic Church, to which I belong, not just to the Filipino migrant community, who, by families through generations past and generations future, by faith\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce987bfd1d67403fb64cf89b8d9ca0a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise for interrupting the member. It is the dinner break; he will resume his speech after the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220121a778dba24433a574a03694665073\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a privilege to speak in representation of not just the Catholic Church, to which I belong, not just the Filipino migrant community, who, by families through generations past and generations into the future, by faith and culture, are opposed to this bill, but also the very, very many people who have written and that I have met: the faithful of many Christian churches, friends in Islam, Hindus, medical doctors, young, old, families, and friends in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI refer back to my maiden speech, of which I had made two references: one to Mahatma Gandhi\u2019s statement that the true measure of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable, not how society allows its most vulnerable to be disposed; the second was a statement on modelling, that the men of New Zealand need to stand strong and in our in our relationships be reliable providers and protectors, show the tamariki the way to respect and honour women. White Ribbon highlights this in their brochure, Raise Our Boys. A regime of assisted suicide is not the model that we might want our children to grow up with. What would this teach the next generation, who often learn to show care and kindness and love to the elderly, the infirm, and the disabled from us through our own acts of kindness and service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENew Zealand finds itself in a situation where the End of Life Choice Bill is sought as a solution. We have heard thousands of submissions. For my part, the great majority from people who are against the bill. The solution is sought for people who cry out for help to address unmet needs\u2014some simply because they have no one with them on their life journeys, simply sometimes to just hold their hands, sometimes to just listen and care and be a companion through tough times and loneliness\u2014for the need for more effective pain management in the extreme. When considered alongside evidence that requests for euthanasia and assisted suicide seldom indicate unmanageable pain and suffering, then that option of ending a life does not seem to be the correct solution at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EWe should instead be getting stuck into affirming, promoting, enabling a much kinder, more caring, and compassionate society. We could well require greater funding and resourcing for community and palliative care for all New Zealanders. What we need is more hope, more caring, more love; to develop this within our families and our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EA person with a terminal illness is our most vulnerable. It is extremely naive to maintain that coercion will not occur. The most common reason for seeking euthanasia or assisted suicide is the anxiety of being a burden to others. This is not a surprise to me as my own mum, my own mother\u2014sometimes I detect from her very subtle hints of checking if I am being burdened by her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENew Zealand finds itself in a situation where the End of Life Choice Bill is sought as an option, a choice, but not all have choices, and there are very many who live without choice already, and they very quickly will be having their choices made by the others that surround them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EAs a member of Parliament in New Zealand, I must vote against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002291d168c13af6419abad3148aba83662a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291d168c13af6419abad3148aba83662a\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E We know that everyone who is born alive will die. We know that the more you love a person, the harder it is to say goodbye to them when they do die. But we also know that, for over 20 years, the overwhelming majority of New Zealanders support a terminally or incurably ill person to be able to request the assistance of a doctor to end their life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe first time I supported this legislation was in 1995, supporting the Michael Laws bill; second, in 2003, supporting the Peter Brown bill; and the third time, today, surprisingly supporting an initiative from David Seymour. Can I acknowledge David Seymour, and say that he has given up a lot in politics and a lot of his time and energy to progress the bill. New Zealanders will appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIt is an emotional subject because it\u2019s about death. But, for me, it\u2019s also about dignity and choice. It\u2019s about respect. It is not about disabled people. It is not about elderly people. It is about people who are terminally ill. The bill is limited to those people, much to my frustration, actually, but I accept the reasoning for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ETwo hundred million people live in a country or jurisdiction with assisted dying laws: Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Canada, many states of the USA, Victoria in Australia. Their laws work well; we\u2019ve heard much about them during this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI want to focus on just two points in my contribution: suicide and palliative care. The idea that anybody in this House would want to increase suicide numbers is just vile in every sense of the word. The select committee considering the petition of the Hon Maryan Street and others, chaired by Simon O\u2019Connor MP, sought advice during consideration of that petition about the link between euthanasia legislation and suicide rates. They were told very clearly that there was no connection. In fact, the only connection there is, which was not the consideration of the committee, is that people, at the moment, end their lives often in lonely circumstances and in horrific ways because they don\u2019t want to continue living. They are terminally ill, but don\u2019t have the option of a dignified death.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe High Court judgment of Collins J in Seales v Attorney-General looked at the evidence provided by Dr Weaver and Dr Munro, who did extensive research into suicides between 1900 and 2000. They said that between 3 percent and 8 percent of suicides were committed by people who were rational, competent, but had a terminal illness. They wanted to end their lives before they lost the ability to choose for themselves. Similar research has found the same in Western Australia. So opposing this bill would support people dying lonely, unsupported, and in horrific circumstances. That\u2019s not my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very familiar with palliative care, and I just can\u2019t express my admiration for the amazing work that those people in palliative care do. But, again based on evidence, we know that palliative care on its own cannot provide relief from suffering in all cases. Palliative care funding in Belgium went up at the same time as their end of life choice legislation was passed. That\u2019s what we should be advocating for as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIf we look at Oregon, a significant number of people who have the end of life drugs in their possession after their request has gone through the process end up not using it, but it means\u2014and this is the most important thing to me\u2014that they live their remaining days or weeks or months actually living, rather than living towards their death in fear of how they will die.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EEveryone in this House should ask themselves how do they want to die. Well, in my view, we should want everyone to die in dignity, without pain, and peacefully, and they should then rest in peace. This bill will allow people who choose that option to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022a62b455cfa5842e5aacf4d331817857e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a62b455cfa5842e5aacf4d331817857e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to firstly emphasise the important duty that this Parliament owes to our most vulnerable citizens, and I want this Parliament to be open and honest that it is inevitable that if this law passes, there will be fatal mistakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYou see, many parliamentarians are putting huge emphasis on the reliability of the three essential legal checks in this bill: we\u2019re putting a responsibility on doctors to be able to say that a person does not suffer from depression or any mental health, we\u2019re putting a test on doctors to say that a person\u2019s only got six months left to live, and we\u2019re saying that those doctors are going to be able to certify that someone is not being inappropriately influenced in their choice for ending their life. This Parliament needs to be upfront that the very profession that we\u2019re asking to make those decisions has told us over and over again that you cannot 100 percent rely on them, and that is why this Parliament needs to be honest with itself that if we pass this law, there will be people who die outside the parameters that are there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to education issues, in my own specialist area of engineering, whether we\u2019re talking about finance issues or others, this Parliament makes a poor judgment when it ignores the people at the coalface that work in the expert area, and I plead with this Parliament to listen to those professionals who work every day with our dying and who have submitted so strongly and plea with us not to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EOne of the worst issues that our country faces is the issue of suicide, and there\u2019s not a member of this House that does not feel passionately about wanting to be able to change those awful statistics of over 600 New Zealanders taking their own lives each year. We need to hear the message that when we blur the line about whether it\u2019s appropriate for people to be able to take their own life, we are making it more difficult for our country to confront those awful statistics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to express real concern about the implications of this bill for the most important institution in this country, and that is family. What this bill does is that it says that a person is able to take their own life without their mum, without their dad, without maybe their son or their daughter, or even without their husband, wife, or partner having any knowledge until they read the death notice in the paper or maybe on the internet. Well, I say to this Parliament that that would cause me, for my family, great grief\u2014and, I believe, every New Zealander\u2014and I am appalled that Parliament rejected the amendments that would have recognised the institution of family and made sure they were not cut out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, this bill, as we come to third reading stage, proposes a referendum. Well, I say to this Parliament: why are we being so inconsistent? When we come to the sensitive issue at the beginning of life around abortion, we\u2019re saying that the public can\u2019t have a say, but when it comes to this one, we\u2019re conveniently saying we\u2019re having a referendum. Let\u2019s be upfront. I\u2019ll tell you why that\u2019s happening: because the liberals that want this to pass do not have the numbers without a referendum, and those that want to advance abortion reform are refusing a referendum because they have the numbers anyway. What sort of an unprincipled process are we tackling those issues with in respect to that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EMy plea to this Parliament is to reflect on the duty of care that we owe to our most vulnerable. We owe a duty of care to listen to the professional people\u2014who I have so much respect for\u2014who work in palliative care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EFinally, I say that one of the things I love about New Zealand and love about this Parliament is that we err on the side of life, and this bill does not. We should reject it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00222c89de0a9cb645eea3d2a4277ecf38b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c89de0a9cb645eea3d2a4277ecf38b0\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E E Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, ng\u0101 mihi ki a koutou e t\u0113nei p\u014D. He p\u014Duri te p\u014D. It is a sad evening, taking this call, and my karanga\u2014my call-out\u2014to New Zealand and to my parliamentary colleagues in the House this evening, in this critical third reading, is weighted by a burden. I appeal now to my colleagues\u2019 sensibilities of justice, of fairness, of equity, and of responsibility and duty of care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI stand, before us all, dressed in black, a symbol of the sombre and sobering session this evening\u2014dressed in black to dress down this bill\u2014and I wear the silver fern. I stand here in the Chamber, which is a memorial to all those who have fought in honour for the protection and the preservation of the sanctity of life. The silver fern is a representation to M\u0101ori of strength, of resistance, and of enduring power, and to P\u0101keh\u0101, it has a strong sense of belonging and attachment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWe are New Zealanders. We are a nation that is premised on justice, on fairness, and on equity, and we fight for the quality of life. I stand in this Chamber this evening to implore and plead of my parliamentary colleagues who do not understand, despite what is said, that this bill is a fraud and it is flawed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI stand making reference with respect and to honour my colleague Dr Shane Reti, when he addressed this House this evening to say that he would be the only member of Parliament in the predicament of having to be put into the position of ending life. And let\u2019s not euphemise this with niceties and phrases: this is a \u201CKill Bill\u201D. I maintain that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6aafd9ddf146a1bb7fa0b7c8cecae0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a247aa61ea68443891f305edd1e42869\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from the perspective and the practice as a lawyer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI refer to lawyers who have studied this bill and who have made submissions to the Justice Committee, who have stated that the bill has at least 35 flaws\u2014lawyers for vulnerable New Zealanders, Queen\u2019s Counsel, and a very experienced Family Court, mental health court, and District Court judge of at least 30 years, who made recommendations to the sponsor of this bill and to the select committee around how to safeguard and safe-proof this law for the benefit of New Zealanders. Those concerns and those recommendations have been totally dismissed and pushed by the side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, this House, as you well know, commences proceedings with a prayer that \u201CLaying aside all personal interests\u201D\u2014and I do that. I speak as a professional. I stand here as a lawyer of experience, working in the health system\u2014as I\u2019ve said before\u2014and working for and advocating for our most vulnerable: our aged, our disabled, and our children. Mr Speaker, in laying aside all personal interests, you implore with that prayer that we conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and justice and mercy, and I implore my parliamentary colleagues to take heed of the complexity of this bill. There\u2019s been much misinformation and misrepresentation conveniently posited and posed by those who speak in favour of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI implore members of this House. This is the last opportunity that we have, and I implore you to turn to that sensibility of justice and fairness and equity. As my colleague and whanaunga Adrian Rurawhe has addressed the House, this is flawed. It is not what it seems to be, and for M\u0101ori this is a monocultural optics and lens, and the position has been stated that as a Treaty partner, as one of those who bridges the worlds of M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101, this bill is a \u201CKill Bill\u201D. Please prevent it. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3f99aa27cc742e2956dbeb9976d8d40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3f99aa27cc742e2956dbeb9976d8d40\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to remind the gallery\u2014everyone else sit down, please. I\u2019m going to remind the gallery that this is a highly charged debate. There are strong views held on both sides, and the debate and interjections and everything like that are only to come from members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u00227ff8dfdcaa9546c0ac74a35efbe894d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ff8dfdcaa9546c0ac74a35efbe894d3\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Firstly, can I just acknowledge the sense of history. Mr Speaker, you have mentioned it tonight: the Chamber is highly charged. I want to acknowledge the history and all of the people who have fought to get this legislation to this point, whether it is Maryan Street, whether it is Ruth Dyson, whether it is Chris Bishop, whether it is Amy Adams, whether it is David Seymour\u2014and I\u2019m going to come to you later. I want to acknowledge all of the parliamentarians across this House who have exercised their conscience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis is an incredibly tough issue, and I do not undermine anyone\u2019s faith, anyone\u2019s decision making in this Chamber. I have had such challenging conversations with so many of my colleagues on this issue, and so I pay absolute respect to you for your different views, but I will advocate this evening that I hope that many colleagues, maybe there\u2019s a couple of you sitting on the fence tonight\u2014that you exercise your conscience and you vote for this bill. The first thing that I want to say is I do understand the huge public support behind this bill, in my view, and we may end up testing this in a referendum. I am very confident that New Zealanders overwhelmingly\u2014their conscience is on the side of not having suffering and pain, and that is where I think this bill should go through and enable people to have that tested. Nick Smith is absolutely right\u2014I don\u2019t want to have a referendum, ideally; this is a really complex issue, but if it is the case of this bill passing or not, I am going to end up voting for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that there have been incredibly pragmatic changes through this legislative process. Not all of them would I have necessarily agreed with, but because I have heard the voices of the Matt Vickers of this world, the Seales family\u2014I\u2019ve sat down with people who have got grievous and irremediable conditions. We couldn\u2019t help them in this bill, but I\u2019ve heard their voices. I\u2019ve heard their pain and I have heard their suffering, and I would advocate that it is compassionate and it is about justice and fairness to be supporting this bill to the House. We have made a number of serious changes that make this, in my view, one of the most restrictive pieces of legislation across the world, with all the safeguards, from independent medical practitioners to second-tier level in terms of doctors to the fact that this has to be a terminal illness whereby we have a state of decline. So this is an incredibly narrow bill, but, ultimately, what this comes down to, for me, is this issue of compassion and this issue of\u2014when I sit there and I hear the stories of people dying badly, in a very violent way, I believe we can do better as a Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI do not conflate this issue with suicide, and I want to make that very clear this evening. I have sat with many families and parents who have dealt with people who have taken their lives. This is a situation where this legislation applies to someone with a terminal illness who has been judged to have six months left to live. This is not about young people and sending a bad message to them. We all have an obligation and a responsibility to ensure that less young people in New Zealand take their lives. This is about a very small group of people that make a conscious choice, who are competent to end their lives slightly earlier, and all of the overwhelming evidence shows that that is ideally not something that people want to do but they are doing it, often because they don\u2019t want to suffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo I support this bill to the House in the name of fairness and justice, and I want to pay tribute to you, David Seymour. I\u2019ve been in the Parliament for 11 years, and I do want to acknowledge that this has taken up years of your life and that your compassion and the way that you have worked tirelessly for this cause needs to be acknowledged in the Parliament this evening. Again, I stand here and say to all of you that we can do better as a nation. We are a compassionate nation. We need to pass this bill in the interests of fairness and justice and, as my colleague Paulo said, in the interests of love and hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2231863ee7146858c737f09fc5812b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2231863ee7146858c737f09fc5812b9\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. No member of this House is devoid of compassion, and none of us has a monopoly on it, so I begin by thanking everyone who has engaged respectfully in this debate over the past two years. There have been many heartfelt and compelling contributions, and I\u2019m sure I\u2019m not the only MP who, despite having a firm conviction one way, has also found many of the opposing arguments both moving and persuasive. I think that\u2019s healthy. I acknowledge that there are some for whom the expected passage of this bill will be both welcome news and, possibly, at some point, a blessing, and to those people I offer my aroha and best wishes. I am genuinely pleased for them, but I believe that the arguments against this bill, and our obligation to protect and care for those who are ill and vulnerable in our communities, are more compelling and that this is a dangerous measure that should not be supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAt the start of the committee stage of this process, I said that I\u2019d been impressed by the quality of the debate. Sadly, in recent weeks, the tone of the debate, in our consideration, plummeted, and I think the committee stage debates were unacceptably lopsided, sometimes bordering on being farcical. Nearly all of the bill\u2019s supporters disengaged from the discussion, a number of serious amendments did not receive the detailed consideration they deserved, and the drudgery of personal voting overtook intelligent engagement. I am one of many MPs who feel deeply aggrieved that on several occasions, we were denied the right to debate those amendments adequately. That\u2019s an unacceptable curtailment of our right and our responsibility to speak out in this House. Those MPs whose only contribution to the committee stage debate was to move closure motions let down our constituents on perhaps the most challenging issue our generation of MPs will face. The cumbersome voting procedure also contributed to the sharp decline in the quality of debates on amendments and the time allocated for them. Our time should have been spent mostly debating ideas in this Chamber, not traipsing back and forth into the lobbies, voting for hours, on one occasion until 1 o\u2019clock in the morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I noted three weeks ago, I\u2019ve been alarmed by how many people I have spoken to throughout this debate who hold very firm views but who have nevertheless not actually understood what the bill actually proposes, and that\u2019s why I promoted an amendment to change the title of the bill from the End of Life Choice Bill to the Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide Bill, as that is what this bill enacts. Sadly, my amendment failed. Assuming this bill is passed tonight, we will instead have a referendum in which the public will be asked to make a decision on one of the most significant issues imaginable via a question so misleading that it is heavily biased in favour of one outcome. A referendum must accurately reflect the issue the public are asked to determine, yet an opinion poll showed that a majority of the public think that assisted dying, or the element of choice in this debate, includes having the option to turn off life support or the right to refuse further medical treatment. We already have end of life choice options of that nature in this country, and it is dishonestly euphemistic to sanitise the issue by misleading people into believing that those who are concerned about the bill are against choice\u2014of course they\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s spare a thought tonight for the outstanding and deeply compassionate professionals and caregivers throughout the country who support people who face the ordeal of a terminal illness. When I raised the concerns of the disabilities commissioner, who made a superb and moving submission on behalf of some of our country\u2019s most vulnerable individuals, I was met by silence, yet, in their thousands, New Zealanders who live with disabilities have pleaded with us not to pass this bill. Tonight, I acknowledge my disabled constituents in Hamilton who have made their fears known to me, perhaps personified by the courageous and admirable Toria Newman, whose book A Million Reasons I commend to all members. She will be watching tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWhen I raised the concerns of the New Zealand Medical Association, apart from the bill\u2019s sponsor, who flippantly dismissed their appeal as being only that of a vocal minority, I was again met by silence, yet this is just some of the doctors in the country who are deeply distressed and are pleading with us not to sign up to this bill tonight. The bill clearly runs contrary to the Hippocratic Oath. I understand that some doctors are supportive of it, but the overwhelming majority are not. The overwhelming volume of correspondence we\u2019ve received from medical professionals confirms that the arrogant dismissal of their deep dismay is patronising nonsense. Some of their names, as I say, are on that letter; many others are not. This bill puts them in a deeply distressing, untenable position, yet their voices have not been heard in this House in this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI\u2019m running out of time. These are some of the inconvenient truths of this debate. I can only pray that if this bill passes, as I assume it will do tonight, we will, ultimately, be able to find a way to reach the right outcome and that we will, in particular, increase our protection and care for those who are most frightened by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea20ec8afbb74ef18bc0b11a8374ca49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea20ec8afbb74ef18bc0b11a8374ca49\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you. This is the first time I have spoken in this debate, but I have listened with interest to a lot of the speeches. I think Parliament is at its best when it\u2019s considering conscience issues, and I acknowledge all of those MPs who have spoken from the heart, who have shared their personal stories\u2014stories from their wh\u0101nau\u2014who have spoken about their values, and who have demonstrated the essential humanity that we all share. I acknowledge your wisdom, your personal insights, and the very serious consideration that everyone in this House has given to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EI acknowledge also Maryan Street, the work that she and others have done in bringing the issue to this House, and particularly acknowledge David Seymour for the very altruistic way in which you have conducted these proceedings and the way you have worked with the legal team that has supported you, gone through all of the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs), and worked to make the changes to the bill to maximise the number of MPs who can support it. This bill has been given the serious attention that this life and death issue deserves, and it makes me proud to be a member of Parliament which has gone into this debate with this level of consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge Lecretia Seales, who came to terms with her terminal illness and her impending death in a very public way by seeking to challenge the current legal prohibition against physician-assisted dying. Can I acknowledge the thousands of people who made submissions, who wrote letters, who wrote emails, who shared their experience and their stories with members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis is a serious and complex issue. There are a wide range of opinions informed by values, by evidence, and by consideration of what has happened in overseas jurisdictions, and they are informed by balancing these very key principles of the right to life, the respect for human dignity, personal autonomy, and the protection of more vulnerable members of society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAll eight Green MPs are supporting this bill because we have considered it carefully as a party. We have considered it guided by our members and guided by our policy. Green policy is very clear that New Zealanders who have a terminal illness should be able to choose the way their life ends in a supported and open way, to have dignity at the end of their life, provided there are very clear safeguards around that. The SOPs which David Seymour introduced and which passed in the committee stages, and the changes that were made to the bill as a result, ensure that those safeguards exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis year, I have watched my father starve himself to death. This bill would not allow him to have a dignified death, because it is a very narrow bill. It specifically excludes people by dint of their age. It excludes those who\u2019ve got a disability of any kind seeking physician-assisted dying. The safeguards in the bill ensure that it is someone who has to be terminally ill, that their life is likely to end within six months, that they are competent and able to make a decision, that they are enduring physical or psychological suffering that cannot be relieved or made tolerable to them, that they have made persistent requests for help to die, and that they are making an informed decision. It cannot be solely because of a disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat safeguard was really important to the Green Party because we recognise that people with a disability often don\u2019t have the equitable access to services that those who are able-bodied have, and we have to do more to invest in those services and to reduce that stigma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOur bill of rights doesn\u2019t currently specifically recognise the human rights principle of dignity and of personal autonomy, but that concept of dignity is recognised elsewhere in our law, and I think that is what this bill tonight is all about. The court in the Seales case said, and I quote, \u201CThe complex legal, philosophical, moral and clinical issues raised by Ms Seales\u2019 [case could] only be addressed by Parliament passing legislation to amend the effect of the Crimes Act.\u201D All eight Green MPs will be voting for that to happen tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6d666699991451cbeb56744cdedcfd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6d666699991451cbeb56744cdedcfd1\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. I k\u012B mai t\u014Dku tupuna \u201CKo Te Reo te k\u0101kahu o te whakaaro me te huarahi ki te ao t\u016Broa o te hinengaro\u201D, n\u014D reira, ka noho tonu ahau ki roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori hei kaupare ake, hei ruruku t\u014Dtika atu ki roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero tikanga kua rangona e waku taringa i te w\u0101 i haere ai t\u0113nei tautohetohe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKo te p\u0101tai ka waiho n\u0101 atu ki te hunga i k\u012B atu \u201CEhara t\u0113nei i te tikanga M\u0101ori\u201D ko t\u0101ku e mea atu nei, he tikanga i mua i te taenga mai o tauiwi, he tikanga M\u0101ori t\u016Bturu r\u0101nei?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMehemea ka p\u0101nui atu te hunga i ng\u0101 h\u012Btori i r\u012Bkoata ai e \u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua, e \u014D t\u0101tou t\u016Bpuna ka \u0101hei Te M\u0101ori te whakatere atu, te whakatere ake i te matenga ki runga i t\u0113tahi atu, t\u0113tahi tangata kua taumaha, t\u0113tahi tangata kua p\u0101ngia nei i t\u0113tahi m\u0101uiuitanga, k\u012Bhai kua roa rawa e kite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kua k\u012B mai e ng\u0101 m\u0101tua tupuna, \u201CKorekau he raru kia whakam\u0101m\u0101 ake te haerenga atu, te matenga r\u0101nei o t\u0113tahi tangata ki te p\u014D.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko t\u0101ku e mea atu nei ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, mehemea ka hiahia t\u0101tou ki te tautohetohe i te kaupapa tikanga, ko t\u0101ku e mea atu nei: ehara t\u0113nei te whare m\u014D taua tautohetohe. Ka k\u012B atu he mea rerek\u0113 te ture ki ng\u0101 tikanga o \u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ka k\u012B atu he maha ng\u0101 hui M\u0101ori ka \u0101hei t\u0101tou te \u0101ta tautohetohe i t\u0113nei kaupapa. Ko t\u0101ku e k\u012B atu hei kaupare ake i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero tikanga kua rangona e waku taringa mai i te t\u012Bmatanga o t\u0113nei kaupapa tae noa ki t\u0113nei w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKei te mahara ake ahau ki \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, o ng\u0101 tino taniwha o Te Ao M\u0101ori ki roto i te rautau kua pahure ake nei. Ka k\u012B atu, \u201CE hoa, ahakoa ng\u0101 p\u0101ngia ki runga i te tangata, ka k\u012Bia kei a au te tikanga, kei a au te mana motuhake ki te whakaae, ki te whakak\u0101hore r\u0101nei ki t\u0113tahi \u0101huatanga ka p\u0101 ki a koe.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko t\u0101ku e mea atu nei ki roto i ng\u0101 tikanga a \u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna, rawa au e whakaae ki \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua rangona ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EK\u0101ti, ka kapohia ake ahau i te k\u014Drero a te rata, a Shane Reti. I te mea kua wahaina mai te Mema i taku ingoa ki roto i tana k\u014Drero i te t\u012Bmatanga o t\u0113nei p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku e k\u012B atu: kei a au tonu taku tikanga. Mehemea e hiahia ana au m\u0101na taku wh\u0101nau e tiaki, e tauawhi ki roto i t\u0113nei ao, kei a au taua tikanga. Mehemea e hiahia ana au kia mate ohorere, kia mate tere rawa atu ki te p\u014D, t\u0101 te mea kua p\u0101ngia nei t\u0113tahi mate kia kore au e hoki mai, ka k\u012B atu, kei au an\u014D tonu te tikanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko t\u0101ku ki Te Ao M\u0101ori: me \u0101ta whakaarohia. Ko t\u0113nei t\u016B \u0101huatanga he tikanga n\u014D t\u0113tahi w\u0101hi, n\u014D t\u0113tahi iwi k\u0113 atu? He tikanga motuhake o Te M\u0101ori r\u0101nei? I a au e \u0101ta whakarongo atu ana, kua rongo atu ahau i te taumahatanga, kua rongo atu ahau i te mamae, n\u014D reira, ko t\u0101ku ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare: i te w\u0101 i p\u0101ngia t\u0113tahi mate kino rawa atu ki t\u014Dku t\u016Bpuna i \u012Bnoi nei taku tupuna whaea ki te atua kia haere mai, kia kapohia ake te ringa kaha o aitu\u0101 i t\u014Dku karani p\u0101p\u0101. Ko t\u0101ku ki t\u0113nei Whare, k\u012Bhai ia i tae mai, k\u012Bhai ia i tae mai. N\u014D reira, n\u0101 runga i taku kitenga i te w\u0101 i tipu tamaiti ahau, ka whakaae au ki t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI k\u014Drero atu ahau ki te mema i kawea mai te pire ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare, \u0101e, ko reira \u0113tahi \u0101huatanga e hiahia ana au te whakatikatika, te whakapakari ake. Ko t\u0101ku kua kite nei ki roto i te pire, kua tutuki e ia i t\u0113n\u0101 o ng\u0101 hiahia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ko t\u0101ku ki t\u0113nei Whare, an\u014D hoki i Te Ao M\u0101ori kei waho atu i ng\u0101 p\u0101t\u016B o t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare: k\u0101ore e kore he kaupapa tautohetohe ka kitea ki runga i ng\u0101 marae maha puta noa i te motu wh\u0101nui, heoi an\u014D, ko t\u0101ku ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare: e mau ana i taku p\u014Dtae M\u0101ori, e mau ana i taku p\u014Dtae mema P\u0101remata, me te k\u012B atu ka tautoko au i t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[Greetings to the Speaker. My ancestor, grandfather, once said \u201CThe M\u0101ori language is the cloak of thought and the pathway to the natural state of the mind\u201D, therefore, I will remain in M\u0101ori to defend and to delve into the depth of discussion about customs that I have heard during this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe question I ask to those who say \u201CThis is not a M\u0101ori custom\u201D is this: are you talking about a custom that has existed since the arrival of non-M\u0101ori, or is it a true M\u0101ori custom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIf these people read up on the histories that have been recorded by our ancestors, they will see that M\u0101ori were able to hasten the death of another if that person was terminal, if that person was afflicted with a disease that ensured that they are not long for this world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, my ancestors have said to me, \u201CThere is no issue with easing a person\u2019s departure, or a person\u2019s passing into the long night.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, I say to those of us in the House that if we want to debate custom-based issues, I would say: this is not the house for that type of debate. I say that laws are different to the customs and traditions of our ancestors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, I would say that there are numerous M\u0101ori occasions in which we can carefully debate this matter. I respond to those who have continually referred to customs from the beginning of this debate until now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI remember the old words of one of the real powerhouses of the M\u0101ori world from the past hundred years. That person said to me, \u201CMy friend, regardless of its impact on a person, I have the final say about what happens to me, I have independence to allow, or to disallow something to impact me.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, I would say that regarding the customs of our ancestors, I will not go along with some of the things that I have heard in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWell then, I refer to the words of the doctor, of Shane Reti, given that he has chosen to bring my name up in his remarks earlier in the night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI say this: I have my own customs. If I want him to be the person to look after my family, to protect them in this world, that is my decision. If I want a quick death, if I want to go quickly into the night because I have a terminal illness from which there is no coming back, I say, again, that is my decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, this is my observation to the M\u0101ori world: think carefully about this. Is this a custom from somewhere else? From another race? Or is it a unique M\u0101ori custom? As I was listening, I have felt the weight, and I have felt the pain. Therefore, this is my take to those of us in the House: when my grandfather was afflicted with a terrible illness and my grandmother prayed to God, prayed that God come down and take my grandfather away quickly, I say to this House that God did not come quickly. God did not come. Therefore, based on what I saw as a child, I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI said to the member who brought this bill before this House: yes, there are some elements that I want fixed or improved. From what I can see in the bill, he has succeeded in addressing those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, my final words for this House and for the M\u0101ori world outside the walls of this House: there will no doubt be further debate on this on marae throughout the country; however, I say this in this House, wearing my hats as a M\u0101ori and as a member of Parliament, that I support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00225b7d7c48f75141ea91391e6e4874a10d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b7d7c48f75141ea91391e6e4874a10d\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E This week, 1,500 medical doctors stated that they wanted no part in assisted suicide; they are clear that euthanasia is not part of medical practice. These doctors take great umbrage at attempts to provide a cloak of medical legitimacy by forcing doctors to participate in this unethical practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThe views of these doctors have been ignored in the unseemly haste to clear the decks for this troublesome piece of legislation. The haste to pass this bill has seen sensible and needed amendments be not sufficiently addressed, such as having no independent witness required at any stage of the process, including death; no cool-down periods for those considering this course of action; no need to ensure mental competency at the time of their death; no safeguards against coercion. Doctors have said that it is virtually impossible to detect subtle emotional coercion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EWhen cultural views are brought to bear, such as those of New Zealand Pacific peoples in this country, these have been dismissed by the sponsor, David Seymour, as skin-colour matters, with the great Dr Martin Luther King\u2019s words quoted as some type of argument against cultural views. But Dr Martin Luther King spoke of the content of a person\u2019s character, and the content of our Pacific Island peoples\u2019 communities\u2019 character has not been determined by our skin colour but by our firmly held cultural beliefs; beliefs underpinned by our culture of care that our elders should be honoured and revered in their twilight years and have family surround them and support them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThis drives to the heart of what leads people to choose a path of suicide in their later years. It\u2019s not a fear of pain. Our tagata matutua [elderly], our kaum\u0101tua, our elders, are far more stoic than that. It is the fear of isolation or being a burden or being unwanted that is the overwhelming fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003ESo I am driven by compassion and a desire to place value on people\u2019s lives as they enter their twilight years. I, like virtually every person in this House, have witnessed the death of a loved one through illness. I have witnessed first-hand the pain that suicide causes family members. So this is not a competition to outdo each other with compassion, to be asked \u201CHave you seen a person die of cancer?\u201D, as though that trumps our duty of care to the vulnerable in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003ESo, knowing that we are all compassionate people, whether we are for or against euthanasia, I turn to the duty of care we have as members of Parliament in this House today. Our duty of care is to ensure good legislation is passed. During the passage of this bill, I and other members have recommended a number of amendments that would have strengthened this bill, and for our efforts these have been rejected as time-wasting or filibustering. This is a serious change in our society\u2019s fabric; we are asking the State to sanction the death of people. I reject our attempts to bring rigour and care into this process as time-wasting. Time is not our enemy; time is our friend. Time is needed to ensure that this most serious legislation is properly considered, where genuine attempts to bring rigour are not regarded as time-wasting but as efforts to bring some semblance of care into this legislation. As a result, history will not smile favourably on us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EIndeed, when has history ever smiled on State-sanctioned killing? We are aghast at the idea of war. We have turned our back on the State-sanctioned killing of criminals, murder is rightfully and justly condemned, and we are troubled by our terrible suicide statistics. Yet now we are giving ourselves licence as the State to arrange the death of our citizens. How will history ever smile on this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EWith humility, I ask my fellow members in this House to hold the line for the vulnerable in our community, and vote No to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0599ff9177842ef85cb5ae6da1b9417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0599ff9177842ef85cb5ae6da1b9417\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to speak in this debate. It is the first time that I have spoken on this particular bill, but I was compelled to this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe all come into Parliament with priorities that are important to us, with the best intention for New Zealanders, and with things that we want to achieve. For me, it has been about addressing inequality, it has always been about social justice, and it has always been about fairness. Within the framework of those priorities, I never considered end of life as one of the priorities for me, personally. I never considered that this would be an issue that I pushed for or that I could potentially block. But our hand has been forced because the bill was drawn from the ballot, and so we have been forced to reflect on our own upbringings, our own personal views, to take on board all of the advice that we have been given across the course of this debate, from the public and from people who genuinely feel passionate about this particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EFor me, as a Samoan-Tongan-P\u0101keh\u0101 born and raised in the Anglican Church and then switching later with my family to an evangelical church, with Samoan family that belong to the Ekalesia Fa\u0027apotopotoga Kerisiano Samoa Church, with Tongan family that belong to the Tongan Wesleyan Methodist Church, with a Catholic husband who comes from a staunchly Catholic family, there are lots of things to reflect on when we are considering this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat I will say is something that\u2019s come up for me out of this debate that I think was way more eloquently put by Minister Henare than I could ever put it is that, in terms of our decision making in life, in terms of the actions that we take across the course of our lives, if we were to use all of those decisions that we make, those actions that we take, as measures to determine where we are lacking in terms of our Christian walk or in terms of our cultural competency and our own ethnic groups and the communities that we belong to, then we would all be lacking in so many ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t stand here and say that I am as strongly in support of this bill as people like Maryan Street, Ruth Dyson, and David Seymour. But I had to make a decision, and I have fallen just on the line in favour. I won\u2019t stand here tonight and tell anyone what I think they should do, because I struggled enough myself with the personal decision that I had to make. I had wonderful people come and talk to me about why I should or shouldn\u2019t vote for this\u2014wonderful people; I really want to particularly refer to the disability sector here\u2014people absolutely opposed who have been public with their view, people like the amazing Kylee Black from the disability sector, people absolutely in support that I respect as well, people like Philip Patston that\u2019s here in the House tonight. And, ultimately, the decision for me as a member of Parliament fell with me, because the arguments were put either side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWe heard earlier from one of the people opposing the bill that they felt that the evidence that has been put by those in support was misinformation and that it lacked integrity in some way. Can I say that across the course of this debate, I think that some of the evidence that we\u2019ve seen on both sides has been lacking, has been misinformed in some spaces, and has also lacked integrity in some spaces, on both sides, which made it even harder to try and work our way through the decision that we might make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one more issue that has made this particular debate very difficult for me, and that is the fact that, on so many occasions, culture and religion have been conflated into one thing. I don\u2019t see them as one thing. As a Pacific person, on so many occasions I\u2019ve heard in this House that this is not the Pacific way. Well, it stopped being the Pacific way when Christianity arrived, potentially. I will not accept that, prior to Christianity, during the many battles and wars that we fought, when our people were falling ill with terminal illnesses or illnesses that were hurting them, at no point did any of our Pacific people turn around and say, \u201CI want to take my own life. I cannot live like this.\u201D It is unacceptable to think that that never happened. So we shouldn\u2019t conflate the two. We should talk about both of them in the context of this debate, but they are not one and the same. I have come to the decision that I will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc0338ac0cca4223a23aa93db315cf3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc0338ac0cca4223a23aa93db315cf3c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we\u2019ve come to the last speech in this debate. A couple of members have dropped short, and there is about four or five minutes extra available. I intend to call Maggie Barry for the last speech, and I seek the leave of the House, notwithstanding the earlier decision of the House, for that speech to be a 10-minute speech. Is there any objection to that? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c382a1e3cd1140db9c772daab340cf30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c382a1e3cd1140db9c772daab340cf30\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I would like to begin by acknowledging the tremendous compassion that is evident to me on both sides of this debate, and it has been from the beginning. I don\u2019t think there is a person who is engaged with this issue who has not felt that they can make a contribution to let people die with dignity and to have their views heard and respected. So, for me, we all want the same thing, but we will go about it in different ways, because there are those of us that cannot agree that euthanasia and assisted suicide is the only way to have a dignified death. We believe that it is important to analyse this bill, and that\u2019s what I will be doing in my call here tonight. I acknowledge, too, the 39,000 people who were very much of the view that they wanted to participate in this process, and I acknowledge this House and all of the people who took part in the submission process for allowing democracy to take its course, because I think that there has been a hearing, and there has been a fair hearing at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EOne of the things, though, that happened at the select committee\u2014and I\u2019m deputy chair of the Justice Committee that heard this\u2014was that we decided at the outset that eight people should not determine the outcome of this bill. We would make minor and technical changes, and at the point where it was coming back to the House, there would be the robust debate, the changes that would be brought in. That didn\u2019t happen. It is one of the greatest professional disappointments of my time in this House, in Parliament, that so few of the amendments and Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) that we put up, having thought through them very carefully and with a genuine desire to see this bill, if it is to pass, be made safer\u2014so there have been some very low points, and the committee of the whole House, in my view, wasted many opportunities to genuinely engage. I believe that this bill\u2019s fundamental purpose is designed to allow swift and easy access to euthanasia with scant regard for safeguards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAfter the bill passed its second reading, though, we sat down. We worked with elder abuse, end of life care professionals, disability and dementia experts, as well as doctors and lawyers. We put up 111 amendments designed to address safety concerns, to ensure, for example, that medical professionals be required to check specifically for signs of elder abuse and to take active steps to ensure a patient is not under duress or being coerced. We tried hard to strengthen those safeguards against coercion. We tried hard to require robust reporting of the cases and to ensure that agencies such as hospices and rest homes would have the right to conscientiously object. That was not passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI marvel still at the number of speakers who stand up and say they admire and support the work of hospice. Why didn\u2019t you listen to what they had to say? Why was there not support for their heartfelt plea? And even this morning, all of us, as members of Parliament, were sent a letter by Mary Schumacher and Rod MacLeod and the people in Hospice New Zealand, who have worked so hard and devoted their lives to finding a way for people to reach the end of their lives with dignity, with compassion, with holistic care, and that pain and suffering is not a part of that equation. That is the very last thing that they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo none of our SOPs were voted through; only one amendment was, and that was in the name of the sponsor, to remove \u201Cgrievous and irremediable condition\u201D. But that doesn\u2019t change anything. It doesn\u2019t make this bill any safer. That\u2019s the view of medical experts as well as many of us. It doesn\u2019t make any difference to the safety, because it\u2019s a meaningless phrase. No one knew what it meant, anyway, and it had no legal or health status in New Zealand. The Disability Rights Commissioner, Paula Tesoriero, is very firmly of the view that this bill in its current state devalues the lives of people living with disabilities and poses significant risks for them. The so-called right to die for some would all too easily become a duty to die for others, and a law change would normalise this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ETo us, the burden of proof has always been with the pro-euthanasia advocates and the sponsor of this bill. They have never been able to prove that there will not be unintended consequences, and instead they have dwelt in euphemisms that deny the reality of what this bill could do. It is not assisted dying; it is euthanasia, and it is assisted suicide. Those are the changes that are being made to the Crimes Act. Let\u2019s not sanitise it. Let\u2019s not pretend it is something different, because it is not. The State-sanctioned killing of one person by another was abandoned by this country in 1961, when people, our predecessors in this House, threw out the death penalty. Now we are looking at bringing back something that will enable the taking of a life. We have strong objections to that, many of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that what we look at with some of the arguments that have been put forward, the pro-euthanasia advocates are people who have been quite dismissive and rude. I\u2019m standing up here for people in the disability sector, who I know have sacrificed, in some cases, their own health, and I commend Kylee Black, who wasn\u2019t able to join us tonight, but for Vicky and for Clare and for John and for so many of the other people with disabilities\u2014Raymond, sorry\u2014who have made the effort to come here and have made the effort to speak out, they\u2019ve been vilified. Many times they have been told they\u2019re too expensive to keep alive\u2014\u201CWhy should we listen to you?\u201D And I think this is beyond disrespectful. So I have been very disappointed that that has occurred. Some have dismissed their arguments and ours in this House as scaremongering and emotional rubbish. They question the sincerity, and they dismiss the fears and concerns of the people who are genuinely afraid for their lives and for what will happen to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EPeople who are told that they are terminally ill\u2014it\u2019s not uncommon for them to feel depressed. At a point when they\u2019re at the lowest in their lives, when they are confused and unhappy, if the option of euthanasia is available\u2014and I have heard this from people like Dr Huhana Hickey, who is someone I admire very much for her strength and her resilience. I know she won\u2019t mind me saying this, but there came a time a few months ago when she was deeply distressed and suicidal. She had told her doctors and her wife and everyone in her family not to listen to her if she said she wanted to die, because she knew that, after a little while, she would not want that anymore. So many people have pointed to the presence of a euthanasia bill and assisted dying as an option they might take in their darkest hour. They might feel a burden. How sad is that? How bad are we as a society in New Zealand if we can allow that to occur?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EMine is not a faith-based objection to this bill, but I respect the ability and the right of people who do have a faith-based conviction to say what is in their hearts and not to be dismissed. I commend their tenacity and their determination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EFrom the time that my father died, I was very connected with hospice. The people I respected and trusted with my father\u2019s death spoke to me a couple of years ago and said that this bill was coming through and they started to tell me of their objections. I meet with them a lot\u2014people like Sinead Donnelly, Mary Schumacher, who wrote to us all today. They say they don\u2019t understand why we would consider taking the risk of all of the unintended consequences at the expense of our most vulnerable. If you ask any doctor to do this, I think\u2014all of the things that we tried to do to bring that into place, by protecting their conscientious objections, have not been passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not true that all jurisdictions are doing this; 6 percent only. Some 6.65 billion people manage to live and die without euthanasia. There are more than 9 million doctors in the World Medical Association who have dismissed it. So, internationally, we look at what\u2019s happened in other countries and we know it will happen here. We sit here night after night, week after week, changing legislation because it\u2019s not fit for purpose. Some people have said this bill will be back in a few years; I\u2019d say less than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThis is a flawed bill. It should not, in its present form, be handed over to the people of New Zealand to do what the politicians could not do, which is to get a grip on this bill to understand how it could be improved, and to work together as a House to do that. We have not worked cooperatively. As I say, we need to put resources into looking after people at the end of their lives, for caring for them; not for killing them, not for funding euthanasia\u2014through the Ministry of Health for goodness\u2019 sake. I think that when I look at public safety and protection of the most vulnerable, we as politicians must be aware that that is the most important aspect, rather than an individual\u2019s personal choice. Our role as lawmakers is to ensure the greatest good for the greatest number. We have a duty to ensure that the degree of safety built into the legislation matches the gravity of the risk. The stakes are very high, and we each have to ask ourselves the question and then be able to live with the answer: how many unintended deaths are too many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EAs with voting down the death penalty 60 years ago, we have to ask ourselves whether one innocent life lost is OK and can be treated as collateral damage. I can\u2019t live with that. I can\u2019t live with the permissive bill and I do not support it before this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bc93f6f1a6674a87aceff450989e6c7f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the End of Life Choice Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 69\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 51\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220cd5abe3e9bd42c18e0c5143b6b2ea89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cd5abe3e9bd42c18e0c5143b6b2ea89\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Can members continue the congratulations in the lobby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259fcb530383348f2ac5c56730ca9d336\u0022\u003ECompanies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c822bf66ee3c45f0b47d4cabcbecc58e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00223c847005d9c74c668a94cee9d1c63b45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c847005d9c74c668a94cee9d1c63b45\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIt is with some disappointment that I seem to be losing the gallery\u2014[Interruption] But this was, as it has always been, a Parliament of diversity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48d717edb394283848fda52f321d657\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have called it, but you\u2019ve also got the duty of making sure that Parliament is attentive to its business; it\u2019s clearly not at the moment. I wonder if we could take a moment to get a settled approach and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34b6916d8f44e3484a18704b2714d15\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I had tried to get that. I managed to get it on the floor, but I will remind people upstairs that Parliament has to get on with the rest of the work. So as well as the lobbies downstairs, could people continue their greetings of whatever nature outside rather than in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c82d5b4b8d24d9ea64a9ecc7b6bdd40\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: I was just reflecting on the diversity of the issues that come forward to this House through the members\u2019 bills process\u2014some, clearly, hugely wide reaching; others more narrow and technical, and I would be the first to admit that the bill that we are reading now for the third time this evening definitely falls into that third category. But despite it being such a narrow and technical bill, it is one of some import for our agricultural businesses that are often structured as companies but that wish to manage their constitution and their affairs in such a way that allows cooperative principles to be maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, this bill has a somewhat personal genesis for me\u2014[Deputy Speaker coughs] Madam Speaker, sorry; I was unaware, caught up as I was in the emotion of this moment, that the Chair had changed. My deep apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYears ago, I had the great privilege to work for Zespri International\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5fcd2a7aaf2441fa720df8116056521\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: For Fonterra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227d44cda0b514b4382d75abe44160ec0\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: No, Zespri International based in Tauranga. That business, when it was given flight initially by a National Government and, in terms of its formation in a corporate context by the then Labour Minister Jim Sutton, supported by the rural affairs Minister Damien O\u2019Connor\u2014as that company was being established, there was an expectation by the then Labour Government that it was established as a company but had the opportunity to be able to operate, should it wish, in following cooperative principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAs a number of the Primary Production Committee would now be very aware, that was the genesis of my involvement with this particular technical change that we are seeking to hopefully conclude tonight, because when that company was established, it was established under the Companies Act 1993 but wanted to be able to treat its shareholders with the appropriate cooperative principle of wet shares being able to attract dividends. They are shares that had production that was backing them. The dry shares\u2014those were shares that did not have kiwifruit production backing them\u2014would not attract a dividend. This is the genesis of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EUnder the Companies Act, it is clear that you have two sections which are not in alignment over whether a company can so manage their affairs in that way. You have section 36, which allows a constitution to have that difference, and then you have section 53, particularly subsection (2), which a number of legal scholars have said negates that right. This small, technical amendment seeks to clear that up, that if you are a company that wishes to treat its shareholders in such a manner that dividends can be applied to shares which are backed with production, and dividends do not flow with shares that aren\u2019t backed by production, there is no lack of clarity in the Companies Act legislation with respect to your ability to give effect to that wish. That is all this is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EI am very, very pleased to have been able to manage this process through, with the support of the Primary Production Committee. I acknowledge not only the chair, David Bennett, but the contributions from across the committee. There have been some very strong contributions from Kiri Allan that I want to acknowledge here tonight. You know, obviously we come from different perspectives politically, but she is from an area that has some connection with kiwifruit, and some companies, in particular, who have had to traverse this challenge previously, and she saw the issue that I was seeking to resolve through the technical challenge. I also want to acknowledge New Zealand First, who, after some consideration, also landed on the position that actually what was being done here was not something in the traditional, sort of, partisan approach that sometimes occurs in members\u2019 bills but actually a simple, technical amendment to clarify that if a company wishes to set up their constitution in that manner, they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe had a small number of submitters. They were the co-operative society, we also had a submission from Zespri, and a particularly helpful one from then QC David Goddard, that assisted the committee in understanding the genesis of the Companies Act formation: why the original Companies Act was written as it was, the perceived intent around the ability for companies in their constitution to set up as they wish, and some of the legal challenge that has emerged over time with respect to section 53.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe have gone through a thorough process. We have debated it, obviously, here a number of times. We have also had a decent discussion at the committee of the whole House, where we again tested the premise and landed a view which appeared to have the whole House in support of these minor, technical changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYou know, as I mentioned as I started, this is not a change that is likely to make the front page tomorrow relative to the previous bill, alas, but for those who are involved in agriculture, who wish to set up a company with the flexibilities of the Companies Act and to get some clarity around the tension between these two sections, this small bill provides that clarity and finally resolves an issue which has been a stone in the shoe for small agricultural companies that have wished to be structured with this degree of flexibility. I appreciate the support that this appears to have had, acknowledge the contributions of all throughout the select committee, and look forward to this bill proceeding tonight. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00223da85815b35c43268c6cd639f92c2580\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223da85815b35c43268c6cd639f92c2580\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Whilst the gallery has all departed, and it is a little quieter in this House compared to about, you know, five or 10 minutes ago, I do want to acknowledge the member Todd Muller, from the Bay of Plenty\u2014from one of the finest towns in all of this nation\u2019s geography, Te Puna. He comes from the centre of the universe. I can\u2019t help that. No, look\u2014the member has worked extremely hard in terms of taking the Primary Production Committee with him to enable us to understand the tensions that existed in the Companies Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, when the Companies Act was introduced, there was a real intention by those drafters in this House, at that time, to ensure greater clarity and to enable, I guess, those that had to undertake commercial and corporate structuring responsibilities to ensure that they had the flexibility to determine the true nature of those entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOne of the challenges, particularly in the agricultural sector\u2014and the member just prior spoke to this exceptionally well, and has done throughout the course of this bill before us\u2014was that when you had a person or a producer that was a productive producer, they were entitled to shares. Once they stopped producing, they still retained their shares in that company, but there was a tension as to whether or not the company could then delineate as to the benefits or rights attached to those shares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIt hasn\u2019t been tested in the court. There\u2019s very little academic research done. Actually, there was none that could be found and produced by the Ministry for Primary Industries, but we do know\u2014the member and I, having had a long history with Zespri in particular\u2014that there has been a real, tense challenge between those that determined that section 53, in particular, subsection (2), trumped the flexibility that was carried through through section 32 of the Companies Act. So section 32 permits a high level of flexibility in terms of the rights you can ascribe to various different shares. Section 53(2) says that \u201CThe board of the company must not authorise a dividend (a) in respect of some but not all the shares in a class; or (b) that is of a greater value per share in respect of some shares of a class than it is in respect of other shares of that class\u201D, and then it goes through to, sort of, step through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, I know that the member who introduced the bill, Todd Muller, was in a managerial position at Zespri at the time when they were trying to untangle the rights of wet and dry shareholders. That issue was really only resolved about two or so years ago by a vote of shareholders at an AGM, but the precursory work to get to that point had gone on for probably a good, I don\u2019t know, five or so years. It had gone on for some time. It had cost the company and all of those shareholders, of course, which own that company\u2014I\u2019m not sure of the actual quantity of the sum, but in terms of time and energy to really seek a resolution, it was very frustrating. It went for too long and it cost far too much money. So from my perspective, and why, I guess, we on this side of the House chose to really engage in this process, we wanted to make sure that we weren\u2019t opening up a Pandora\u2019s box if we were to make ad hoc amendments to the Companies Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EIt is a fundamental piece of legislation that impacts thousands and thousands of people throughout our country, so we didn\u2019t want to just hack away and, I guess, make amendments that could carry those unintended consequences. So, I guess, from this side of the House, a lot of our questions\u2014actually, across the divide, we were really clear as a committee that we wanted to understand the impacts that this particular amendment would have on the overarching reading of these provisions if we were to enable this amendment to the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EOn the balance of probabilities, and from the advice that we received, we felt comfortable on this side of the House to support these amendments as carried through in the member\u2019s\u2014it\u2019s a relatively small bill but these are technical amendments that are made to ensure that there is real clarity. And I think it goes back to the intention of those drafters at the time. I\u2019m not sure whether those drafters at that time intended there to be this potential conflict between section 36 and section 53(2).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge the contribution made by the Hon David Goddard QC. Look, we didn\u2019t receive a ton of submissions on this relatively technical amendment, but the submissions that we did receive, and in particular from that particular honourable member, David Goddard QC\u2014very, very helpful in terms of walking us through the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c592cbbaa4934d5e8628856982ef261d\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Great judge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6bfcde78a8f4ebb9246adc7a4d7dbe4\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Great judge\u2014he is a great judge. He\u2019s on sabbatical over in the States, I think, at the moment. He gave our committee the time to really ensure that we could understand the technical nuance of these provisions, and I think he was right. You know, he said, \u201CLook, this doesn\u2019t create huge ramifications across the board, but there are specific circumstances, in particular, where you establish yourself as a cooperative at the outset and then, of course, producers go on to have different arrangements and they may or may not continue in their roles as food producers, but they retain a particular class of shares.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t think I intend to give a lengthy contribution on this particular amendment, but just to say that when it comes to things that really support our primary producers, our food producers, in particular\u2014those that structure themselves in this way, and we mentioned Zespri as one type of company that does this; but for those companies and, in particular, those in food production that do structure themselves in this way\u2014this is an important amendment. It\u2019s something that I take pride in, on our side of the House at the very least, I guess, listening to those contributions of those food producers and working alongside them to ensure that they retain the mechanisms that our producers need\u2014our food producers need\u2014to remain as sustainable and viable entities but to ensure that they don\u2019t need to waste resources, and particularly the example of Zespri, as I mentioned prior, I had to do over several, several years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ESo without further ado from our side of the House, I\u2019m pleased to commend this bill to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3771f3a01c64d848795459da9225e3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3771f3a01c64d848795459da9225e3f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to follow the two speakers on this bill so far and to reiterate the support for Todd Muller, who has brought this bill forward to the House. Todd Muller has done an excellent job in making sure that this bill has passed through the committee stage of the House and is now going to be into law at some point in the near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EIt is a small piece of legislation that does cover up an area of law in which there would be some dispute or some inaccuracy, with many not knowing the real context in which a decision is made by a company that wanted to do dividends in this manner. To clarify that is really important for our cooperative sector, and I think at this time it\u2019s important to acknowledge the strong cooperatives we\u2019ve got in New Zealand that are the backbone of New Zealand agriculture and that provide our farmers with the ability to compete on a world stage that they would not have if we didn\u2019t have a cooperative base. Legislation like this, that assists those cooperatives in managing their finances and their shares and their approach, is vital to enabling them to be able to have the tools to actually compete and deliver for New Zealand farmers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo this bill, although small in its scope, does have an important role in backing our farming sector and backing our cooperatives that are vital to the future of New Zealand going forward. So I\u2019d like to thank all those involved on both sides of the House for the way that they conducted this through the committee. It was done in a very reasoned approach and we\u2019ve got a good bill here that will deliver the outcome that\u2019s been wanted. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u002284f2380c129942d0ac12045baa9903bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284f2380c129942d0ac12045baa9903bf\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to speak at the third reading of this bill, the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill in the name of Todd Muller. I want to acknowledge and congratulate the member for the Bay of Plenty for shepherding this bill through all the various stages in the House and, in particular, our discussions that we had at the Primary Production Committee on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI must say that when I first came across this bill, I thought, \u201CWhat\u2019s the point?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbea1a1e05a54d279311334a0b521ac5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And then you read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b22d8ed918140ba898a49c4877c02e4\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE\u003C/span\u003E: I read it and I still was posing the same question, because, I guess\u2014I practised corporate law quite a few years ago, but I know that the Companies Act provides a whole lot of flexibility in terms of corporate arrangements: how you structure a company, arrangements between shareholders, and also how key decisions are made. Sure, there are thresholds that exist within the provisions of the Companies Act, but the constitution of the company can create a whole multitude of creative scenarios in terms of coming to the right structure\u2014the right model that fits the shareholders\u2019 wishes and which fits their overall business objectives. So I honestly was questioning the actual purpose of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ETo be honest, we didn\u2019t really receive a lot of submissions from the many, many supposed agricultural companies out there that are really crying out for this piece of legislation, but there was indeed one particular company\u2014that is, Zespri, our main kiwifruit exporter; a global company doing some amazing things around the world\u2014who have a keen interest in the passing of this bill. And so with that, I tried to sort of look at the bill with a fresh set of eyes and look at the intent as to what we were actually doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ENow, again, I think the officials from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, who advised us at the select committee, couldn\u2019t really find any sort of mischief that it was really necessary that we had to pass this particular bill. They thought the legislation was fine as it is. I agreed with them. But, again, I guess the purpose of this bill, which is why we have come around to supporting it, is to provide absolute clarity that within a class of shares a company can create a dry share and a wet share. Again, it\u2019s an extra specific piece of legislation, a piece of a provision that we\u2019re putting in the Companies Act. So with that, I guess it does no harm, but I still sort of have to struggle: why should we be doing this in the first place? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EHowever, be that as it may, I want to acknowledge Todd Muller. I want to acknowledge him for getting some world-class advice in terms of\u2014we had QC-calibre advisers and legal brains who were telling us and convincing us that this is definitely necessary, this bill. And so the long and the short is we are supporting this provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOn further questioning, though, I would have thought that a constitution of a company can be changed provided you have a special resolution. So, in any event, any company, provided they can get to that special resolution, can also create different classes of shares, could create an equivalent scenario that we\u2019re trying to remedy with this bill. So there is still flexibility there within the Companies Act to do exactly what we\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ELikewise, I guess, I was trying to play the devil\u2019s advocate as we were examining this bill, and I was thinking of the rights of the shareholders within Zespri who were the pioneers of that company, the first generation growers of kiwifruit\u2014I suppose they came together to form Zespri\u2014who, obviously, have retired from the industry and no longer are involved in, I guess, growing fruit, but still hold shares in the company. And I was thinking, well, what about the rights of those particular shareholders? How are they being recognised in this bill? What this bill does is it basically says that the board can discriminate and can say, \u201CEven though you all hold the same type of share, we\u2019re going to pay dividends to the shareholders that supply us with fruit, and you shareholders that founded the company but no longer supply us with fruit, well, you\u2019re going to get a different type of dividend.\u201D And so that\u2019s what we\u2019ve been grappling with, in terms of the rights of shareholders vis-\u00E0-vis the company, the rights to dividends, and, also, I guess, the overarching business of Zespri, which is all about supplying fruit to a global marketing business, which is very successful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo I was trying to look at it from that perspective and thinking: what about the rights of those shareholders? Unfortunately, we didn\u2019t actually hear from any of them. There were no submitters at all on the bill representing this particular class of shareholders. I understand that there are actually quite a few of these types of legacy shareholders still within Zespri; we never actually heard from them. So perhaps they\u2019re okay with getting paid a lower dividend or perhaps no dividend, despite, you know, having their sweat and toil over the years to build up the business to where it is today. So, again, I just want to return to the primary point, which is this bill makes it explicitly clear that a company, a board, can differentiate between shareholders within a particular class by categorising them. Say a company does adopt cooperative-type principles. It can create what are called dry shares and wet shares for those that supply and those that don\u2019t or no longer\u2014and so, again, it\u2019s providing the board of companies like Zespri, who are multi, multi-million dollar businesses, absolute certainty for their board that they are able to treat their shareholders in that particular fashion. And so I guess that\u2019s a good thing and it\u2019s achieving what it\u2019s intended to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI want to once again commend Mr Muller for shepherding this bill through all these various stages. I\u2019m not going to take up any more time, but to say that I support this bill and I commend it to the House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u002258e72feb6b6f4a1686f68034666024da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258e72feb6b6f4a1686f68034666024da\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I intend to take a short call on the member\u2019s bill this evening, but it is beholden upon me to stand here this evening in this House and acknowledge the sponsor member, Todd Muller, this evening; a fine gentleman, actually. Those are strong words in this House, but you cannot discard the contribution from the member, not only in this House but in the way he undertakes his business in his electorate and around the country on behalf of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222772b3cdeff7458aa12a2907e77f3ed2\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Leadership material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022008030621df64d26a8ebf2659b8d3230\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, leadership material. And actually, Minister, that is actually what I wanted to say tonight. That is my contribution this evening, if the Speaker allows me to go down that path?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cb14fbc0583472889082bdcb8e9dcae\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I won\u2019t. I\u2019d like you to talk to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c36631943334db0beaabbe4cf0ceefe\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Can I press and see if you push the buzzer on me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb22dcac7cdd4be288e759e8e7f2356c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I would like you to speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e4a8d3ac5d849e9884430de3d5b6674\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: This member brought to the House a piece of legislation where\u2014I would first start, perhaps, on the nature of those who would benefit from it: the companies who define themselves as cooperatives. And what I want to say this evening is that, actually, the cooperatives model, not only in New Zealand but around the world, has proven itself to be an incredibly powerful and empowering business model. I think New Zealand has seen that first-hand, and I won\u2019t name names this evening because that\u2019s unnecessary. Those members in the House can think of several large examples of cooperative business models operating quite successfully, not only on behalf of their membership but on behalf of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear about tonight\u2019s debate: I\u2019m standing up because, to be fair to the sponsor member, there is a small modicum of debate around the confusion. Mr Karatat\u2014Mr Rino Karatat, oh Jesus, I\u2019m sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229791441627a948fe8cf7fac83b8703ad\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Tirikatene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ae388c2d8ae488184cb8a14c7baa610\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Tirikatene outlined how the different shareholders\u2014and we spoke earlier about the wet and dry shareholders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fe7b5c4fbb40869cab5e301affb9d2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Fletcher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f379d4eccf4d929abd6fddb16112cb\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, sorry guys\u2014and that\u2019s what we\u2019re trying to define tonight, and that\u2019s what the member has brought to the House. Actually, it was observed by the same member who submitted on the legislation\u2014there was an absence of contribution from the sector, because, actually, some of the companies who originally thought they were caught up in this had decided, actually, we can figure out a way around it. But actually, New Zealand First stands up tonight and acknowledges the fact that there\u2019s still some debate on that; there is still that question mark. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c445bf6168b42829dc1fc92861ec134\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No more question marks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289b1f6dc611944b09315fae606f35bdb\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: And why have that question mark when we don\u2019t need to? When we\u2019re dealing with, essentially, cooperatives who are the backbone of New Zealand business, and a great way for New Zealand beneficiaries to benefit from those endeavours. So the reality of it is we have a member who is\u2014and this is non-political\u2014a great leader in his community, who has shown those leadership qualities. Actually, that\u2019s essentially why I am standing up tonight: to acknowledge that, to acknowledge the member and his efforts\u2014not just in this bill but in all the work he does on behalf of his electorate\u2014and to say that we can\u2019t have that question mark sitting over those companies; they don\u2019t need it, they don\u2019t want it. And so, on behalf of New Zealand First, can I say we do support this legislation this evening. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00225de526655cad4feaa3183d8599bf6c5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225de526655cad4feaa3183d8599bf6c5b\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a great pleasure to take a short call on this outstanding piece of legislation, introduced to the House by my colleague Mr Todd Muller from kiwifruit country. It\u2019s also a great pleasure to follow Rino Tirikatene in what was an outstanding contribution to this bill. I\u2019m also following the clear candidate for leadership of New Zealand First by the speech he just made; it could have meant anything to anyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut I do want to get back to the point. It is a piece of legislation that deals with some very small factors, and when Mr Muller first told me about this piece of legislation I was quite excited, because it seemed to me there might be an opportunity to rort a couple of my brothers by paying differential dividends, and I thought, well, that\u2019s quite a good way. I see, unfortunately, the Primary Production Committee has tidied that bit of stuff up so you can\u2019t do that, which is a little disappointing for me. But also, today, I had a group from Fielding, the Fielding Multicultural Group, in my office, and they were asking me about the legislation going through the House. Well, I clearly had no problem describing the previous piece of legislation to them. I certainly couldn\u2019t describe this piece of legislation to them, I thought that would take far too long, but having listened to Rino Tirikatene I could\u2019ve borrowed him to do it for me, because he did such a good job of it. I then got them on to the dog control bill, which is the next piece of legislation in the House; very simple and very sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut this piece of legislation\u2014it\u2019s an interesting thing. When I was a young person, I really thought cooperatives were another form of socialism, but I\u2019ve decided they probably aren\u2019t. In fact, they probably serve quite a useful purpose. In fact, New Zealand agriculture was built on the back of cooperatives, and to some extent they\u2019re all different and one or two of them will benefit from this piece of legislation. So before I put my foot any further in, I will sit down and commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb02169bba494975bdd77ac9b7e0c33b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb02169bba494975bdd77ac9b7e0c33b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Jan Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c805d2e21bf4af2bff7bfde8cc464df\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Jo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u00223686dec8a7124985baeda359d3bee19a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223686dec8a7124985baeda359d3bee19a\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dcf2318099d4bc5ab4f4b165032b7ff\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Jo Luxton. Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa82c5b331c04853ab19920593912899\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all right. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to rise in support of this piece of legislation, the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill. I think the title\u2019s just about longer than the parts of this legislation. But I\u2019d like to acknowledge and commend Todd Muller for bringing this piece of legislation to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EIt came through the select committee after my time on the Primary Production Committee, so I wasn\u2019t too familiar with it when it came through that select committee process. From what I understand of that process it was a little bit touch-and-go for the select committee. There were some issues around, I think, members from the Government side just wanting to know exactly what the purpose of this was, what it was going to achieve. Thankfully, that\u2019s been worked through and the select committee has come to an agreement on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually really nice to speak in the House on pieces of legislation or bills where there is agreement across the House. It\u2019s a nice way to spend the evening rather than in a combative-type situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ETo explain this, I guess, in easy layman\u2019s terms, because it is quite a technical piece of legislation, I think the basics of it is that it provides clarity. There\u2019s been some confusion potentially around companies\u2019 abilities to\u2014and the rules that come around the shares or the dividends that they can have within the company. We\u2019ve heard about the wet shares and the dry shares, the wet shares being those that are for the people that provide the produce or whatever it might be, and then the dry shares are those who no longer continue to provide to the company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThis will enable clarity, which will be quite helpful. When I talked about wet shares being those that currently provide produce to the cooperative, thereby they can potentially receive a financial dividend, my understanding is that those that have dry shares potentially do not. But it does allow that ability for the company or the cooperative to be able to make that decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI think that this is a pretty good piece of legislation. I think anything that provides clarity, particularly in our rural producing sectors, our rural producing companies, is a good thing because we do know that our primary producing sector provides\u2014I think I\u2019ve written\u2014around $46.4 billion in exports. And so we, on this side of the House, are more than happy to support any legislation that gives our primary producers clarity and enables them to do what they need to do to continue doing the wonderful work that they do in providing exports to the world and taking our exports out to the world. Because we know that we do provide the best primary food to the world, and that\u2019s something that we can be proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EIt is a good position for us tonight to be here to support this piece of legislation. So again I\u2019d like to commend Todd Muller, who brought this piece of legislation to the House, and I\u2019m more than happy to commend it to the House this evening. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00227b3519bfcae445c79b8dc9d068bb9a98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b3519bfcae445c79b8dc9d068bb9a98\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. He mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI rise in support of this legislation, the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to echo the sentiment of the House and acknowledge the member Todd Muller for getting this through. It is a significant achievement to get a member\u2019s bill through Parliament, particularly from Opposition, so I acknowledge him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EBasically, this is trying to clarify a legal disagreement between section 36 and section 53, parts of the Companies Act. Look, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s in anyone\u2019s interest to have companies spending their time and effort paying lawyers to try and get their heads around a legal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2e7a2b1c918459290d575e0d7789e1b\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Someone\u2019s interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6f16d72592146a5b32a03d04d5ba42e\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Some members might disagree with me, and some lawyers\u2014I\u2019m sure, most lawyers\u2014might disagree with me. But I believe companies should get on with the business of their business, not paying lawyers to work out what could be seen as quite a legitimate inconsistency in legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the Primary Production Committee. There\u2019s a small improvement in the legislation. I note some of the comments around the lack of engagement. I guess an optimistic interpretation is that people were relatively comfortable with the legislation, and sometimes silence is a show of support. So the Green Party supports the legislation, acknowledges the member, and congratulates him at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022100b5bfca93641eea867c14f39cfe4e0\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271a5306dee1423e94bd3b170ea589ec\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b5dfc8650b4dab86f0a9be0b46301d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s Tim van de Molen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022364dba5aac644f92abddb1a66a9f1f07\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yip.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b88398adcce4c399f3cecf8de46326c\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e09785e24d4420cb9f9c64bb3694b47\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, a bit slow to get up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210154d381c6148a99e623ab214806266\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It was whoever\u2019s going to yield first. It\u2019s a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00221b9ba202772d4f44b55bbacb8af13b0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b9ba202772d4f44b55bbacb8af13b0b\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m delighted to rise and take a call on this. I\u2019d also like to start by commending Todd Muller on having a member\u2019s bill drawn and reaching, now, the final stage in the House. That has taken some time to get to this point, and appreciate we\u2019ve had a reasonably protracted debate on the previous piece of legislation that was before the House this evening. So we will see now a significant change in terms of the process happening on a typical members\u2019 day. I think we\u2019ll see a number of other great members\u2019 bills put forward by National MPs progressing nicely through the House over the coming months as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EBut this particular bill is focusing quite simply on clarification in the Companies Act in relation to the dry-shares situation. We\u2019ve heard already the relevance of that to Zespri\u2019s situation and, potentially less so, to the Fonterra situation that had preceded that some years ago. But, really, looking to just amend section 53, making it clear that a company, if they outline it in their constitution, can make these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, this is something that\u2019s perhaps a bit unique to the agribusiness scene in New Zealand, where there are a lot of cooperatives that operate in that space. This just enables a bit more flexibility but also clarifies how it would work for other companies if they were choosing to look at a similar or potentially some variant on the share structure situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, look, it\u2019s relatively straightforward. It\u2019s a great bill put forth by Todd Muller from a real-life situation that he has experienced and understands, and shows the depth and quality of MPs on this side of the House with their knowledge on a whole range of aspects, particularly in agribusiness in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to seeing this pass presently in the House and commend it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5bec9089beb428f8b70c8a73f3034de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5bec9089beb428f8b70c8a73f3034de\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Thank you for the opportunity to take a short call tonight on the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill. Can I start by saying, when the member who sponsored this bill, Todd Muller, said that he doubted it would make the front page of the newspaper tomorrow\u2014ye of little faith\u2014Judith Collins, the honourable member, made a similar comment about derivatives and said that if it made it to the newspaper, one single article, she would bake for the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and guess what! It did, and we got her baking, so I wonder if I could put a similar challenge across the House to that member, that if it does in fact make the news tomorrow\u2014and it won\u2019t be the front page given earlier legislation this evening, but just putting that challenge out there. You don\u2019t want to be upstaged by the Hon Judith Collins and her wonderful baking\u2014Louise cake, it was. I do want to, in all seriousness, commend the member for his identification of an issue and using of the member\u2019s bill process to be able to address an issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to say that this is my first call on the bill, although when I was reading through the Hansards of the earlier debates, I came across a quote in there by the member Kieran McAnulty. He said \u201CIt is with delight and some amount of surprise that I am standing here to speak on this bill.\u201D, and the Deputy Speaker said \u201CYou certainly don\u2019t look like Willow-Jean Prime.\u201D So I believe I was probably down to speak on this bill in an earlier reading, would\u2019ve been given leave, and Kieran filled in my spot at that time. But this is my first opportunity to speak on the bill. I am not a member of the Primary Production Committee, which this bill went to, so I want to commend that committee for giving some time to go through this process. Actually, when I read previous debates, the member Rino Tirikatene really did give it a thorough examination and play the devil\u2019s advocate in terms of this and whether it was really necessary, whether there were some unintended consequences of what we did, whether there were other ways in which the issue could be addressed, but, ultimately, we have got support across the House for this piece that\u2019s been put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI wanted to reflect on the earlier contribution by Gareth Hughes, where he was sort of suggesting that it doesn\u2019t do any harm, but as two former lawyers over here, we may not actually find favour with our colleagues in the legal profession, because when, in all seriousness, I heard the example given about Zespri, the amount of time, the number of years, that it took and, no doubt, the legal advice that they had to obtain as a company of their size and the importance of their structure, there would have been money that could have been a dividend actually spent on lawyers\u2019 fees to try and clarify some ambiguity in the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI reflected on some previous debate notes, and it was pointed out by Gareth Hughes that figures in 2018 actually stated that the top 30 cooperatives in New Zealand had a revenue of $42 billion. So these are not small amounts of money that we are talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIt is substantial, and the potential for debate and disputes to arise within these organisations is very real when they are having to go to lawyers for advice, for clarity, and for interpretation around the law. Then, the contribution from Kiritapu Allan was that at the time this was probably not foreseen when the Companies Act was debated and there, potentially, were not Hansards to rely on. Did they intend for us to be able to have the difference between dry shares and wet shares or not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo, in the absence of all of that and with the difficulty that we have had a real-life experience of, the suggested amendments\u2014there being two main sections, section 36 and section 53\u2014do help clarify the law. Yes, we\u2019ll potentially reduce the workload of lawyers and the potential to charge there, but it gives certainty and clarity to the cooperatives in this country. I just do want to reflect that this has been a structure that we have used in New Zealand since 1871, so they are long-established corporate structures in our Companies Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275723a4b456b4b2894f88072a779624f\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Socialist structures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c7aa2a2b9140d08a06d5cbf7a4b7d7\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014socialist structures, and Ian McKelvie would have got into a bit of trouble over on that side of the House for supporting such things\u2014but our Companies Act should be there to support all of those types of arrangements. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022faabf0ad05bb4d7e919d0deb41319803\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faabf0ad05bb4d7e919d0deb41319803\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s my pleasure to speak to the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill, and I do so in the knowledge that this is a member\u2019s bill put up by Todd Muller, the member for Bay of Plenty. This really started his ascension to glory, because from that point until, in the end, he took on the climate change thing, he got us through, and it was an instrumental and a very successful across-Parliament agreement last week. He\u2019s now our spokesperson for agriculture. You know, he is moving very rapidly up the ranks. So I am delighted to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI am delighted to support this bill, because what Zespri\u2014and this is really where it came from\u2014is doing is that it is one of the most successful cooperatives in New Zealand. I want to remind members of this House that its business model really started from a whole lot of small growers getting together and forming a cooperative using market-led signals, having all control of the breeding rights, and then developing a highly successful international business. There are those shareholders at the beginning who took a lot of big risks and didn\u2019t know quite what was going to happen and who may now have retired or may be out of the industry, but they are none the less shareholders, and there are those shareholders who are actively producing today and who are taking big risks and doing things and producing the fruit. All this bill does, really, is give some flexibility to cooperatives by making a change to the Companies Act, and I think we would do a disservice not to do this. Even though it sounds small and innocuous, it is significant to a small number of cooperatives in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ENow, with what Zespri is doing and what it will continue to do, they do need to be nimble. They will need to manage capital structures\u2014how they organise themselves\u2014in perhaps different ways than they have in the past, and all this bill really does is allow the dividend flows to be managed to the maximum advantage to Zespri, its growers, and its shareholders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EAs the spokesperson for horticulture, and having visited Zespri a number of times, I know the value of having a cooperative structure. There are other structures in New Zealand that are cooperatives in many other cases that have been highly successful\u2014particularly in the primary production sector\u2014and I think this is a great bill. From small beginnings, I\u2019m pleased to see that it\u2019s come with support from right across the House, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022b34a841c3c4c4d7e96cef75d498c30e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b34a841c3c4c4d7e96cef75d498c30e1\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wondered if I could trouble the House with a few thoughts on this excellent bill, which of course we support. It\u2019s yet another bill with cross-party support. Only the other day, I was speaking on a bill in the final parts of its third reading and commending it to the House\u2014the zero carbon bill\u2014and here we are, again, joining hands across the House. What another happy occasion it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI must say, it was very heartening to hear Mr McKelvie just talk to us about cooperation\u2014from each according to their ability to each according to their needs\u2014and about how socialism runs deep through our society, right through the veins of Fonterra and Zespri and the like. It\u2019s great to hear and it\u2019s good to see that even at his advanced years, ideals are still there\u2014are still there. Oh, thank you, Mr McKelvie. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, look, this bill\u2014I know some of my friends across both sides of the House have looked at it and thought that it\u2019s not an interesting bill, but it actually is because it goes to the heart of company law. Company law, in the good old days, was nothing more than a contract between shareholders. The shareholders could come up with pretty much any deal they wanted, and it was in about the 1890s that some rules started forming around it to make sure that people weren\u2019t caught out. One of those fundamental rules was fair treatment of shareholders\u2014in particular, minority shareholders\u2014but also there was the rule that emerged that whilst you could have different classes of shares with different voting rights and different dividend rights and so on and so forth within any particular class, you had to deal with those shareholders equally. So you couldn\u2019t peel off a few of them who weren\u2019t your mates and then look after your mates and issue a dividend, for example, to some but not to others of a class. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat rule has found its way right through to our current Companies Act, and that\u2019s the one that\u2019s caused some concern. But there\u2019s another rule that goes the other way, which is that in a constitution, you can write pretty much whatever rules you like. There are some rules which are set in stone in terms of things like duties of directors, and you can\u2019t contract out of those, but pretty much the rest of them\u2014a whole lot of the other ones\u2014you can. The dividends rule is one which is subject very much to the constitution. So, yeah, there\u2019s a lack of clarity there. David Goddard QC, now Justice Goddard, thinks it might be unclear but he would fall on the side of \u201CIt\u2019s pretty obvious we can do that.\u201D So here we have a member\u2019s bill which, for the benefit of those great cooperatives, we\u2019re really there to clarify.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, look, it\u2019s really about making sure that shareholders aren\u2019t caught unawares and, as Mr Hughes said, that companies aren\u2019t spending unnecessary time and resources doing complicated workarounds. But at root, this is simply about fairness and equality across shareholders, clarity of company rights, and on that basis I\u2019m very pleased, with both major parties of the House and others, to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5102cf13494a22a985ca093a516eb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5102cf13494a22a985ca093a516eb0\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E My short contribution to the Companies (Clarification of Dividend Rules in Companies) Amendment Bill: first of all, I\u2019d like to kick it off by acknowledging the mighty Todd Muller, the MP for the Bay of Plenty, for his work around this bill. Now, the facts of the matter are that this is a member\u2019s bill: he put it in the ballot, it hit the ballot 18 months ago, and as soon as it hit the ballot, it got drawn out. Some people go their whole career and don\u2019t get a member\u2019s bill drawn out, so that tells you the amount of sway, the amount of connections, that this man has\u2014that he can get a ballot drawn out. So he\u2019s destined for great things. Did I say he was a legend? Well, he is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI can tell you this: I can see that the Government MPs are on the edge of their seats. Iain Lees-Galloway\u2014I\u2019ve never seen him so on the edge of his seat about this. This is why I came to Parliament. Not really\u2014the last bill was. But anyway, this amends the Companies Act 1993 to provide legal certainty around dividend rules. It\u2019s a simple bill, giving companies the rights to distribute profits according to their constitutions. Now, I won\u2019t go into the details, because they\u2019ve been well traversed by the previous speakers, but it\u2019s rather like the farm debt mediation bill I spoke on yesterday: it just makes it easier for people to do business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EThe passage of this bill will build on the work that the previous National Government did in the area, allowing businesses to grow and prosper. I know Zespri\u2014they submitted and they welcomed the clarity that this bill brought to the challenges that they faced with their grower-owned organisation. I know that Craig Presland, CEO of Cooperative Business New Zealand, supported this bill, as did the agribusiness sector. I look forward to seeing many more bills brought to this House by our colleague and friend Todd Muller, MP for the Bay of Plenty. I know he will make a great Minister of Agriculture in the National Government next year. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022952e341ad66f42519a2b94efc55deef5\u0022\u003EDog Control (Category 1 Offences) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d1d637f614f45ae9404d83fe8f097c3\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000740\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 23 October.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00228a35d24b68354673a8f5f020d1ff75a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a35d24b68354673a8f5f020d1ff75a3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When we were debating this last, we had come to the National Party call\u2014and are you seeking the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad7f60187474582a706f94e4e013a71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad7f60187474582a706f94e4e013a71\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I am, Madam Speaker. I was just listening intently. Well, what a night for National this is. Right, I rise to speak to the Dog Control (Category 1 Offences) Amendment Bill, second reading. This is important\u2014yet again, it\u2019s a common-sense bill brought forward by my friend and colleague Ian McKelvie. We all\u2014well, not all of us; a few of us have experiences of constituents coming in saying \u201CLook, you know, we have some real challenges with our neighbours\u2019 dogs and the noise they make and the difficulty of getting, often, the local government to prosecute it.\u201D, and then when it gets to the point of such a social nuisance that it has passed the threshold for a prosecution to occur, it can then get caught up in our judicial process. Again, regardless of the political persuasions that are reflected in this diverse House, I think we can all reach a pretty consistent view that our judicial system should be better focused on areas of perhaps greater import.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThis is an issue that we have seen that Ian McKelvie has reflected on and said, well, actually, to make things easier, to be able to get better outcomes for communities, let\u2019s actually ask our justices of the peace and magistrates to be able to listen to these issues and complaints. It\u2019s a common-sense suggestion, one that will enable people who feel aggrieved by their next-door neighbours\u2019 dogs yapping to actually see a pathway forward that can see their issues dealt with and, hopefully, resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a simple bill. It\u2019s not particularly complex, but I think what it does talk to is an unerring ability of the National Party, on this side, in its members\u2019 bills, to anchor their contributions in terms of solutions and things that actually make a difference for people in the community. Is this huge? No, but for those who get frustrated in terms of the difficulty of engaging with local government and the judicial process around dog control, this is a sensible change which will make their issues dealt with quickly\u2014and for those people, it\u2019s another example of a National Party that listens, a National Party that hears them, that understands them. We have, in Ian McKelvie, someone who is deeply attuned to his community, and this is an example of a small change that will make a big difference for a number of people. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022db88f9cd587b49a9845f1c5743aa133d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db88f9cd587b49a9845f1c5743aa133d\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the member that\u2019s just resumed his seat, Todd Muller, for that contribution. It sounded like an audition for the National Party leadership to me, and likewise all of the accolades that have been thrown his way. But richly deserved\u2014richly deserved\u2014I must say, in terms of the passage of bills that we\u2019ve had this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EJust turning to the bill at hand, I want to acknowledge the member for the Rangit\u012Bkei\u2014the mighty electorate of the Rangit\u012Bkei\u2014Ian McKelvie. He seems to have a lot of good fortune, because he\u2019s had quite a few members\u2019 bills drawn from the ballot, and they\u2019ve all been relatively successful, as I recall, including this bill, which we are just debating right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EAs has been discussed, this is about dog control\u2014in particular, category 1 offences. Currently, those offences, which are only punishable by fines or community-type based sentences, are heard by District Court judges. It seems quite an unnecessary use of court time and resources, particularly calling on judges to be required to adjudicate over these sorts of cases, and so, rightly so, Mr McKelvie has brought this bill to the House. Rather than clogging up the court system and putting a lot of these offences\u2014loading them up\u2014on judges, he\u2019s helpfully suggested that justices of the peace, who exercise a judicial function\u2014and, likewise, community magistrates, which was originally proposed in the initial bill\u2014be called upon to actually adjudicate such cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThe Primary Production Committee, thanks to the advice that we received, found out it was unnecessary to actually specify that community magistrates have the jurisdiction at hand, because they inherently have that jurisdiction anyway. So it was redundant of us to restate that within this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo there were some minor tweaks that were made in order to, I guess, achieve the objects of the bill, which, as I\u2019ve said, is about court efficiencies. It\u2019s about also animal welfare\u2014ensuring that dogs that are impounded are not detained unnecessary or for prolonged periods of time. It ensures swift decision making and swift access to justice, and it\u2019s a very sensible piece of legislation. It\u2019s good that when we can come into this House\u2014no matter if the subject matter is quite small\u2014there are some useful things that we can do. This is one such bill that we are doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EOnce again, I\u2019m sure that members of the judiciary, particularly within the District Court jurisdiction, will welcome the passage of this bill\u2014likewise, the very wonderful justices of the peace that we have right up and down the country. We must acknowledge those good Kiwis. It\u2019s unpaid\u2014it\u2019s a voluntary role that they take on\u2014but I know many justices of the peace up and down the country take that position very seriously, and I want to acknowledge all the good work that they do, and I\u2019m sure they\u2019ll be looking forward to having this expanded jurisdiction whereby now they can adjudicate on category 1 offences under the Dog Control Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis bill is going to be welcome across a number of quarters. Likewise, it is supported from this side of the House, and, with that, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6535129499245c9a0414b09ff187ffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6535129499245c9a0414b09ff187ffb\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to support this legislation. I acknowledge the member Ian McKelvie. It\u2019s a great moment for an MP to have their member\u2019s bill not only pulled but then actually passed and now go through select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis legislation is all about reducing the workload for our courts, where the workload has increased over recent years. It\u2019s about increasing the animal welfare of dogs. I was made aware of a stat today that we have one of the highest per capita rates of dog ownership in the world. Now, they are man\u2019s and woman\u2019s best friend, and we love our dogs in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the intent of the legislation. I think it has been improved in the Primary Production Committee, because what they have done is, while those category 1 offences can be dealt with by justices of the peace, excluded a few offences. When it comes to the issue of dog destruction, I think it\u2019s right that that can go through a normal judicial appointment and not just a justice of the peace. The Primary Production Committee has also taken out those category 1 cases that still have a legal test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI think the measure is going to be the impact of the legislation. I\u2019m aware of a statistic that 90 percent of dog control cases in the 2015-16 year\u2014of 466 cases\u2014were category 1. But, I note, in the select committee report, they mention, I believe, they estimate only a third of current cases will be heard after those exclusions are taken out. So it will be interesting to see the impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWe are voting for this legislation because of the animal welfare impact. We\u2019re not going to see dogs in pounds as long as currently is the case, because justices of the peace will have to expedite the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to just take the opportunity to say that while we\u2019re dealing with dog registration, we have a massive problem in New Zealand when it comes to backyard breeders. What I would personally like to see is, actually, a registration scheme for those breeders and compulsory de-sexing, because what we see is a number of animals actually raised in pretty horrific conditions, and the SPCA and other entities are unable to take action because shelter and water\u2014even the barest-quality water, even if the water is covered in slime, is allowed under the existing rules. And then, sadly, these animals are literally just kicked out of the home and sometimes kicked to the street.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo this is an issue we\u2019re going to have to address in the future, but I\u2019m glad to be taking this step in a positive direction tonight. Congratulations to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022045e0efe6ef94b98884b4aecd67e9e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022045e0efe6ef94b98884b4aecd67e9e76\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Lawrence Yule\u2014five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u002265b596ef0495486bbf247fb05ee34a1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265b596ef0495486bbf247fb05ee34a1a\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, but I\u2019ll only be taking one minute of that, I think. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak to this bill and congratulate Ian McKelvie on bringing this bill to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really simple, there are a number of low-level dog control infringements in the community; they often involve neighbours, people in a neighbourhood, and often the council or somebody gets involved and they\u2019re really difficult to resolve. The dog sometimes can end up in a pound, there are costs of looking after that dog, and everybody gets stressed. The simplest thing that can be resolved is that somebody with some authority takes it to a court-type process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EAll this bill simply says is that there is another way of doing this through JPs or a lower level court process. I think it makes imminent sense. My time in local government would show me that, actually, there does need to be lower level access to sort these things out. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00228f0bfd84d61f43da9ac0d0ab6e503956\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f0bfd84d61f43da9ac0d0ab6e503956\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to this bill and offer three points on character: the character of dogs, the character of JPs, and the character of Ian McKelvie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe character of dogs: they are our friends, for the most part, but for some people they can be quite frightening. Uncontrolled dogs can be a nuisance, and they do need to have some measures taken against them but they need to be reasonable and fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAnd that is why the character of JPs is so important. The JPs that I have had the fortune to be in contact with through my job as an electorate MP are people of great sense and good character. I think they are well placed to be able to deal with wandering dogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EJust on the third point, then, in terms of people of great character, I would just like to commend my friend and former foe in the Rangit\u012Bkei electorate Ian McKelvie, who is a man of great character and good worth\u2014I think it shows that in this very sensible bill, and I congratulate him on having it brought to the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022 data-id=\u0022529309cd82594acf9c14aae773e8dd38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022529309cd82594acf9c14aae773e8dd38\u0022\u003EMATT KING (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thinking I\u2019ll make a short contribution on the Dog Control (Category 1) Offences Amendment Bill second reading. I would like to acknowledge again our kaum\u0101tua\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022938ab72858084d1ebc423a4981e4c87f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Kaum\u0101tua?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed69c2a7afd4851b7a7531babcb7171\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: Kaum\u0101tua\u2014Ian McKelvie\u2014well, I prefer to think of him as a kaum\u0101tua\u2014for another member\u2019s bill, bringing this dog control amendment bill to the House. He is a very practical man with many, many good uses. He brought the stock-rustling bill before us as well; another very practical\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ff72a2fe83482780ec2e955cecf40c\u0022\u003EDenise Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Very resourceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229278032871b14f93b658510fd509c921\u0022\u003EMATT KING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014resourceful sort of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESo this is a relatively simple bill, and it is to bring category 1 offences so that a JP or a community magistrate can deal with them. It\u2019s a very common-sense sort of a bill, and it will speed up the process and will allow things to be processed through the courts a lot simpler. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI know that some of the reasons why you couldn\u2019t have JPs and community magistrates dealing with everything is there are issues around some serious offences when a dog needs to be put down, or other certain types of categories of offences which are of a more serious nature and require a judge to deal with them. This frees up the judges to deal with the more serious matters. So this is a great example of a member\u2019s bill going through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003EI see, in 2015-16, there were 456 charges under this Act, and 427 of them were category 1 offences. So this bill will deal with that, and it will impact on the delays in a positive way for court proceedings on pound facilities and animal welfare. It will reduce time for these cases to be resolved and allow judges to deal with the more complex cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003ESo, yes, yet another great bill from another great man. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220132884a32384a81899498b29972013a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220132884a32384a81899498b29972013a\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Speaker. Well, Ian McKelvie, top bloke tonight in the House. Top bill. Just a couple of things from me: I didn\u2019t sit on the select committee, but the first thing that\u2019s extraordinary is that there were 456 charges under the Act in the 2015-16 year, and, of them, 427 were for category 1 offences. Those were for things like failing to register a dog or failing to keep a dog under control\u2014there were other ones as well, obviously\u2014and they had to be heard in the court. Anyway, this seems like a pretty sensible kind of bill and we support it, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002203f37ccb502f4e66b200bc2ec486448c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203f37ccb502f4e66b200bc2ec486448c\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks very much, Madam Speaker. As we draw to a close tonight, it\u2019s my pleasure to stand and take the final call on the Dog Control (Category 1 Offences) Amendment Bill in its second reading. I had the privilege of speaking to this bill when it came into the House. At that time, I took the time to acknowledge the JPs that do the work in our communities, and I repeat that because they do fill a very special place in New Zealand community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EWe have heard tonight many contributions about how sensible this bill is. Certainly, we\u2019ve heard how sensible the sponsor of the bill is, and I duplicate those credentials for him. It\u2019s very simple: we just want to stop clogging up the District Court. Our JPs are well versed in being able to deal with these matters, take the pressure off the District Court. It speeds things up because, while you\u2019ve got a dog that\u2019s, basically, in custody, the cost is building on the owner\u2014it\u2019s got to be fed and housed; it\u2019s got to be cleaned and have its healthcare dealt to. This is just a really simple way of dealing to that, and I have great pleasure in commending it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ba4152e39b941abbf210d65fd44d1bb\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022110192b0204a425eb97228765a642b03\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228f823220da5c440f95fb83e629e84f48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f823220da5c440f95fb83e629e84f48\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether, given the hard work the House has done tonight, we might rise a few moments early, seeing as we\u2019re just about to commence a new bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002231951d2f43da4f5cb35ef174782724df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231951d2f43da4f5cb35ef174782724df\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that makes absolute sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209791a808b604374b74e0d131cb79202\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t we seek leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0e7231f558a46278cfea5c74faddec4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019d better seek leave, yes. Well, is there any objection? No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2019111322d3352d1331472990040b4060748bb8000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.59 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"