"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f45876ee83d4470b0387baad35a0899\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab33f623e0c84fad9ef55e074fe8406d\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2019\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231f652e4159242d9949bfc469516dc44\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221ce0b4ccaf0d4f0598900c83733ebc95\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226d5e53acab69402da1f3bb74a4732550\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d5e53acab69402da1f3bb74a4732550\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. On Wednesday next week, the House will be adjourning for the summer break. On Tuesday, the House will consider the third reading of the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill, the remaining stages of the Subordinate Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 4), and the first readings of the Land Transport (Rail) Legislation Bill, the Land Transport (NZTA) Legislation Amendment Bill, the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill, Taumata Arowai\u2014the Water Services Regulator Bill, the Films, Videos, and Publications, Classification (Commercial Video on-Demand) Amendment Bill, and the Secondary Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s notified the Business Committee of its intention to move a motion to extend Tuesday\u2019s business into Wednesday morning if necessary. After questions on Wednesday, the House will pass the Rua K\u0113nana Pardon Bill. The adjournment debate will round off business for the year on Wednesday afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f483f631dd8f4b6d960f583b6bf212d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f483f631dd8f4b6d960f583b6bf212d2\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for the most extensive indication of the Government\u2019s intention for the week ahead that I think we\u2019ve seen yet. It is, having said that, a very ambitious programme, and given that there is only 5\u00BD hours on Tuesday and then the four hours on Wednesday morning\u2014which I suspect will be required just because of the length of that list\u2014would it still be the Government\u2019s intention to progress beyond the Rua Kenana bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ae8fa3819214a318dc5d49a722fc7a2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0113nana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c6687f57db344808891c26dacf1c174\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014apologies for that mispronunciation\u2014and then straight to the adjournment debate at that point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226c6b2ae871014b6097db00e3a980bf71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c6b2ae871014b6097db00e3a980bf71\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The Government\u2019s intention is to continue as planned on Wednesday afternoon, regardless of where we get to on Wednesday morning, although I would note for the member that given we passed a whole week\u2019s worth of business on Tuesday, and another whole week\u2019s worth of business on Wednesday, I\u2019m very optimistic about our progress next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022826313f1871f4162b266cc8f11a61a0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022826313f1871f4162b266cc8f11a61a0a\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that is just a tribute to the Government\u2019s ability to put up legislation favourable to the Government\u2014to the Opposition, I should say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223d166568e3c24dc691978204749abffe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d166568e3c24dc691978204749abffe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, on behalf of the country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022243ab0f33b7c45a3bb640b77916f6a95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022243ab0f33b7c45a3bb640b77916f6a95\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the Business Statement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022400be1b631c248c3a0ff40fa2d11daba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s an unusual process, but seeing as it\u2019s nearly Christmas\u2014Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ee8a1055ff41708923f6f213a9b2e8\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve done it before. Can the Leader of the House confirm that the Government has no intention to introduce legislation to ban the sales of nicotine e-liquids to under-18s this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00221ffb84ec9ebf413f8e3a7af7bb6e02fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ffb84ec9ebf413f8e3a7af7bb6e02fe\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The member will just have to wait and see. There are a few more bills to be introduced next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edfa4f190cc0402090141f935ccc61dd\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6e8f0e96c984fa4b971feb0e2d435c5\u0022\u003ECook Islands\u2014Death of New Zealand High Commissioner Tessa Temata\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6fb3f462824c65b0c8c68a30a30478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6fb3f462824c65b0c8c68a30a30478\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice or debate on the passing of the New Zealand Cook Islands High Commissioner Tessa Temata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229143d11cd81e4723a3bd89ed1016515e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course being taken? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653817a2861343d289f379af7e365001\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House offer its condolences to the family and colleagues on the passing of Her Excellency Tessa Temata, New Zealand\u2019s first High Commissioner of Cook Islands descent to serve in the Cook Islands and the first female New Zealand High Commissioner of Pacific ancestry to be posted to the Pacific, and note the strong contribution she made to deepening New Zealand\u2019s relationships with Pacific Island countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u02BBAere ra ma te \u02BBau e teia tavini meitaki. Te mi\u02BBi nei matou, te aue nei te ng\u0101kau i to\u02BBou takake\u02BBanga. Kare koe e ngaropoina ia matou e teia vaine toa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E[Go in peace, oh humble servant. We are grieving; our hearts are full of sorrow at your passing. We will never forget you, this warrior woman.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a39a0881fd0d4114876132a7dab13633\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235ced2c3562744c483c8c2d7758bd07c\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c6b04462b524d01ae5f412dae95bfde\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00220f89d2584a4343a781d6630f558a7cc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f89d2584a4343a781d6630f558a7cc5\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of the Budget Responsibility Rules he committed to in Budget 2018?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228493af1cd6a14d1dad0e8f42c0789981\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228493af1cd6a14d1dad0e8f42c0789981\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31e56a627ec4cb5bd6e998c91dcb2b5\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How can he stand by his commitment to be in surplus every year until there is a significant natural event or a major economic shock or crisis when yesterday showed the Government is projected to be in deficit this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7de668a5f454861876cff4dfe7b0b6a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I believe the member will find that Budget 2018, the Fiscal Strategy Report, of which I have a copy here, says that we will deliver a sustainable operating surplus across an economic cycle. That is exactly what we are doing. We have had around $13 billion worth of surpluses up to this point, and we\u2019ll have $12 billion worth of them up to the end of the forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216156e5b84a54064877b225d0e4b7d08\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of having fiscal targets if you simply pick and choose when to ignore them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c47e9839d894f55aaf7c98972d90fc9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I completely reject the premise of the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022a140bc7274aab9495040876bb341a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think it would be \u201Cludicrously stubborn\u201D to keep his promises?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2b51b2b1d5341a2951f7073d2e0bbf7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject the latter part of that question. That comment was made yesterday in response to a question that, really, had at its basis the fact that, consistently, virtually every economic commentator in New Zealand has been calling for a boost to infrastructure spending\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238b4eb45766c47208da329f37dcc24a6\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014including the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b18c935d0294133bf684e6d5e88eeb9\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes, actually, that\u2019s exactly right\u2014including the member opposite, who also, I might add, I believe, said that borrowing to do that was a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd93544bd29b49c986064418770c1260\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the fact that people were calling for a boost to infrastructure spending because the Government wasn\u2019t doing any quality infrastructure spending, having cancelled or postponed most of the major projects that the previous National Government had left?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225680685a1cc74fc6b1d90c4203c8b1d4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No. I believe the reason that that was was because of this graph here, which represents the infrastructure deficit that the previous Government was left with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab6e6de86ba14668957117f48e01e740\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders be assured about the quality of his Government\u2019s spending when just today his Government released the Upper North Island Supply Chain Strategy report, the key financial assumptions underlining which Treasury has completely dismantled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f2ae7ad056d44018f6ba3b3b7f43bd1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: That report was one commissioned by the Government, undertaken by an independent group. It is now being considered by the Government. It is among a number of questions that the Government is now asking to finalise our position on that\u2014look forward to hearing the member\u2019s position on that matter, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bdf39e8b89a4f8db264e48672bdb5dc\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that Treasury points out that the working group\u2019s preferred option of moving the port to Northport hinges on two assumptions, neither of which stack up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b8137880a4e4357aa3ef411bf1f9f25\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just repeat the answer I\u2019ve just given: that report, from an independent working group, has come back to the Government. The Government is now in the process of considering it, asking a range of questions, and we look forward to inputs from across the board on where people believe the port should go, when it should go, and that would include whether the member would like to make his mind up about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbfde4092ae433e9f8fc2f11a9d463e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is he satisfied with the quality of the Government\u2019s increased spending, such as KiwiBuild and the Provincial Growth Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290ee901aae564c608d325e0189f60043\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very satisfied that this Government is addressing the long-term challenges and issues that we inherited as a Government, and when it comes to housing, inheriting 71,000 houses less than what we should\u2019ve had as a country, inheriting the sell-off of State houses, and inheriting increasing homelessness\u2014we\u2019re working very hard to address those. We\u2019re making good progress on that, but it is a big deficit to make up for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286103341b7ca498aa2d732f76fc738eb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00225a0dc4ceab544c16863c7ee4f7425f46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a0dc4ceab544c16863c7ee4f7425f46\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What proportion, if any, of the \u201C$6.8 billion for new transport projects\u201D announced yesterday will be spent on the 12 projects that were re-evaluated following the publication of the 2018 Government Policy Statement on transport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00224d87a29258f84eb6a04e70e9dd7ac129\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d87a29258f84eb6a04e70e9dd7ac129\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E This package shows that the Government is serious about fixing up the neglected infrastructure that we were left with. The final details of the package have yet to be fully decided, so the member will have to wait for further announcements for information on those projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bebcc0f523c42a38fbb1f55c1304ac3\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government settled on the final package of transport projects to be funded through the package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7d5013fcb640fb8e03073973730a93\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s just a few i\u2019s to dot and t\u2019s to cross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bdbc7cc547f471ca1a8285725fe272e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm what New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) chair Sir Brian Roche said this morning at the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, which is that while the transport agency has provided advice, the decisions as to what projects are funded and which ones are not is up to Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f136ef4e6a73491a9d57ffc79fb0b18e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: This is not an unprecedented approach, and in general\u2014let me make it clear\u2014the vast majority of transport spending under any Government happens through the National Land Transport Programme, with NZTA making those decisions at arm\u2019s length from Ministers, under the guidance of the Government policy statement. But from time to time, Governments choose to invest more in transport infrastructure, as is the case with this infrastructure package, and as was the case when the former Government announced the package of State highway improvements\u2014exactly the same process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298029aa2c6514788abb40354b6296bb2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Will all the projects funded in the $6.8 billion package be shovel- ready?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79a017cfc2746d3b43a2606c9571275\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The projects in this infrastructure package in the transport part of it are being selected on the basis of the transport value that they deliver, to move people and freight more efficiently around the country. The package will be a valuable and much welcomed economic stimulus, and it\u2019s very important that those projects are ready to be delivered as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f6fb39d4d354b98ad61a1896fd03a97\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister still stand by his previous statement that the 12 re-evaluated roads are of very low economic value?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d178ce65884462d9b13899dd1d4c185\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is quite wrong. What I said was that the former Government\u2019s so-called roads of national significance\u2014that were, in fact, ghost roads\u2014were of very low value, and that\u2019s why our Government put them through a re-evaluation process, so that they would deliver, because this side of the House stands for value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d2d2486a604f5992fe60826795e8e4\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter expressed concern to him about the increased funding for State highways; if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db659ee1d614bf1bd66c0f8d36d3f31\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022441fbc02882142b0badd974dade0115c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00225e79a026291b430497d8d8ae38631952\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e79a026291b430497d8d8ae38631952\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reactions has he seen to his announcement of the Government\u2019s $12 billion capital investment package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002286b30dd73cec4609aa2893a61336068a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286b30dd73cec4609aa2893a61336068a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a number of supportive reactions to the announcement yesterday that the Government will lift capital spending to the highest level in over 20 years in order to stimulate the economy and address our neglected infrastructure. The Dominion Post editorial today said, \u201CIt\u2019s hard to argue against the assumption it is fiscally wise to borrow and stimulate the economy in this way. An international slowdown has started to have local effects,\u201D. The editorial goes on to say, \u201CThe contrast between future spending and recent capital spending is striking.\u201D I believe the writer of the editorial may be referring to this chart, which shows a significant lift in infrastructure spending under this Government compared, for example, with the $4 billion spent in 2010, declining to the decade\u2019s low of $1.1 billion in 2014.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6bfb8a8e84b45be8c8c32ace949cbfa\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has he seen from business groups to his announcement of the Government\u2019s $12 billion capital investment package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4b7e0b4c9c4501b9a7570e66ac1ff0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Employers and Manufacturers Association said the additional infrastructure spend of $12 billion is a \u201Cwelcome boost\u201D and good news for small to medium sized enterprises, particularly in the upper North Island, which continues to grow rapidly without having had the necessary investment in connectivity and ease of movement to support that growth. Infrastructure New Zealand CEO, Paul Blair, said, \u201CWe\u2019re delighted with today\u2019s announcement of $12 billion in new capital investment by the Government \u2026 It is encouraging to see the Government using its recent surplus to invest in productive infrastructure to deliver environmental, social, cultural, and economic outcomes.\u201D The Government\u2019s package is designed to provide business with a certainty and pipeline of Government demand over the coming years, and I\u2019m pleased to see the positivity coming forward from business groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d3027e4e2c4937b0025203513d32eb\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What other reactions has he seen to his announcement of the Government\u2019s $12 billion capital investment package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664b3e740f064468ba7f7bb18222ef69\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a number of reactions from commentators who have noted the significant need for this package. The New Zealand Herald\u2019s Liam Dann said, \u201CToday\u2019s announcement paints a stark reminder of what fiscally stimulating economic times we now live in. Around the world we\u2019re seeing a swing back to a more favourable view on Government spending as central banks chase interest rates towards zero with limited impact on inflation.\u201D Mr Dann went on to say, \u201CAfter decades of austerity, it\u2019s hard to see anyone making much of a case against this latest round of spending.\u201D Stuff\u2019s Thomas Coughlan noted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfa369edc86f4dada012e6de76f643f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That is enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae9973177eb64757ad1adda76a26a496\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Did he see the reaction from National\u2019s finance spokesman, who said, \u201CThis Government is world class at announcing things and third rate at delivering them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2705a6ed56b4dbb93fb9940cdb25127\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I did see that peep come from across the House, and I prefer to take the view of respected economic commentators such as Stuff\u2019s Thomas Coughlan, who noted, \u201CNew Zealand has a shocking infrastructure deficit. At [this] time our population began to expand, the Government cut back on infrastructure spending. That was a decision that\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b9f203ad69459cbe20c410649f12c7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I accept it was a patsy, but that\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb1b6b8e5b964881b6e1a043c7fb1e58\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002262dc49b4bff44d96aed65dccd7b8e925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262dc49b4bff44d96aed65dccd7b8e925\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he concerned that any of his policies and actions could have a detrimental effect on the performance of district health boards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022504d020bfcc5422c969d3648c1438b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022504d020bfcc5422c969d3648c1438b79\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: No. In fact, I\u2019m particularly confident that after years of neglect, the $2.45 billion that we have invested in rebuilding our hospitals will have a positive effect on DHBs and patients. That number is twice as much as the previous Government invested in health capital over nine Budgets. I\u2019m also confident that the additional $300 million investment in health infrastructure announced by the very modest Minister of Finance yesterday will also have a positive effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221eddba3f7e44fb281a1d2b3a67be20c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: If those investments are so great, why have DHBs plunged to $1.2 billion of combined fiscal deficits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bcf0808e43244c8b8b62e5e33e6636c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member will well know that such deficits build up over time, and when there has been such gross underfunding of the health sector over such a long period of time under the previous Government, it will take some time to turn around. In terms of the answer I gave to the primary question, that was in reference particularly to capital investment, where the member needs to tread very carefully when it comes to talking about the record of his Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04c5d9624b841fb9c8bb1a2a68a6041\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: Director-General of Health, Ashley Bloomfield, who told the Health Committee, regarding pay settlements, \u201CThe funding that the DHBs received was explicitly designed to address their cost pressures.\u201D or Nelson DHB CEO, Peter Bramley, who yesterday told the committee, \u201C$3.2 million was the cost in that year for the settlement of multi-employer collective agreements that were not funded.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a4891f34eb4065aa403b6abc22250b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I would need to see the full quotes from both members to be able to judge any answer to that question specifically. What I can say, in general, is that this Government inherited a situation where we had a number of pay claims in front of us. They were not adequately budgeted for by the previous Government. We have budgeted significantly increased resources for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d364523c874c61a177fc034a49461f\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of those pay claims, what was the extent of industrial action taken by health unions during the period 2009 to 2017, and how does that compare with the last two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e37f27137a64a24884d7ee91c986e0b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think on this I would defer to the comments from the Deputy Prime Minister, who said that if a person thinks that a bus won\u2019t come along, they won\u2019t wait for it, but if they think that there\u2019s a bus which has people in it who actually might care a little bit, they\u2019ll wait for the bus. We have seen under this Government the fact that we\u2019re prepared to address wage issues that were ignored for a decade by that Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d663d1a382d2453980a7c50cdad4ebe1\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: So if he believes funding and pay increases were adequately funded by this Government, is he also saying it\u2019s the DHBs\u2019 fault that their financial performance has dramatically deteriorated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221787fba563a04857ae621f5bb41aa5fc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said earlier on, there are a number of reasons for why DHBs\u2019 financial performances are what they are at the moment. A significant part of that is the long-term underfunding that went on. We also have issues related to governance, which the Minister of Health\u2014I am the Minister of Health, aren\u2019t I?\u2014which we, as a Government, have been working on in terms of the appointments to DHBs, and we\u2019re addressing those performance issues, but there are many issues that lie behind that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c88ae6a1d5c348fd8eab244af8826296\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: If he wants to look for someone to blame for the DHBs\u2019 parlous state, shouldn\u2019t he just look in the mirror and see a Minister with no plan and no clue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238618ad289b34c8cbeb40f512e896bdf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca21c89c50f74dd3809ca062a635df70\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00221154d4f842444bc58776fcf9393abe00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221154d4f842444bc58776fcf9393abe00\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c4da68bf71247578b4e0bc5a69b7e4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c4da68bf71247578b4e0bc5a69b7e4d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and in particular I stand by my statement this morning that this Government remains committed to effective changes that turn offenders\u2019 lives around, reduce offending, and make our communities safer. That\u2019s what matters most. We will make change at a pace the community understands and in a way that keeps their confidence. I hope our colleagues across the House will join us in this challenge that I know we all care about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6e3417e69f848dcbef3e6c17bd5679d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by the action taken to commission the Safe and Effective Justice Advisory Group, which, after two years of engagement and a cost of $2.5 million, has delivered little in the way of promised justice reform?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dee308d5f3047cda03bfda221f3d85b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: There are factual inaccuracies in that question but, in any event, I stand by the work of that group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d6ef0bf8ed4fd7a098709a20040b21\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement this morning that the Government \u201Cwill make change at a pace the community [can understand]\u201D, and why won\u2019t the public know until next year what these changes will be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afffb178914443b3a7d710d7c236d1e7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to the answer to the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b138df26324ea48f95fb9fedeb80c0\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: When he said that they didn\u2019t think they could commit to the sorts of recommendations the group is likely to make regarding the resignation of members of their justice advisory group, what were the recommendations they did not agree with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa1f38966a54bc891657390f2293739\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a statement that I have ever made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810104987e8d4c3589160235490b4b9c\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements, if any, has the Minister made regarding courts in Hamilton?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085e1e92a0864b26847d35530ca850e0\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Today, I announced that not only will the Government be making the two alcohol and other drug treatment courts in Auckland permanent but we will also be adding a new alcohol and other drug court in Hamilton next year. I think it\u2019s important to note that, of the offenders who go through these courts, 23 percent are less likely to offend for any offence; 35 percent are less likely to reoffend for a serious offence; and 25 percent are less likely to be imprisoned because of reoffending. I\u2019d like to thank that member, along with the Hon Tim Macindoe, for the support they have given for that initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600b6bee0c4d42dc944b469ecbfb8e36\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What reports, if any, has the Minister seen regarding his announcement of a new alcohol and other drug treatment court for Hamilton?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b896acc7cc748bb968e23e167b79503\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a report from Hamilton Mayor Paula Southgate, who welcomed the Government\u2019s announcement of the new alcohol and other drug treatment court, saying that punishing people whose offending is driven by alcohol and drug dependency without tackling the underlying issue doesn\u2019t make sense, and there has been sustained and comprehensive public support for the court in Hamilton. The Government has heard the people of Hamilton and is taking action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf93e14afa0a45b88fa19d990323aff9\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why did it take two years for the Minister to commit to extending the previous Government\u2019s very successful alcohol and drug treatment courts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225047c671113424b828ef24421bd2aac\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The previous Government had set up the pilots\u2014in fact, had renewed the pilots of those courts repeatedly until June 2018. Following the completion of that pilot, this Government extended the courts while the pilot was reviewed. I received the report of that review early this year. We\u2019ve now committed to the permanency of those courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225097ba1c845944f8affa199cbb8f7ff4\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t this just a fitting end to the year of non-delivery: that, after two years in Government, he has delivered nothing new?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9d972491ee435d8e940198e1135d56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member works out that he doesn\u2019t ask me questions, doesn\u2019t he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d02f5366746c44b39bf92f7c1448837a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u002284870704a8b246028fb229e138f50d27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284870704a8b246028fb229e138f50d27\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What reports has he seen which were released today that highlight racial discrimination in our justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1cabe18b71f46968a737bfe8f2d74ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1cabe18b71f46968a737bfe8f2d74ef\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Today I released two reports, Te Tangi o te Manawanui: Recommendations for Reform from the Government\u2019s Chief Victims Advisor and Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uep\u016B H\u0101pai i te Ora, the Safe and Effective Justice Advisory Group. These reports noted the unacceptable rates in which M\u0101ori come into contact with the criminal justice system both as offenders and as victims of crime. As the reports note, the justice system must support fairness and equity, accountability and restoration. The Government is committed to a fresh start for our criminal justice system that meets these goals over time so that we see less offending, less reoffending, and fewer victims of crime, who are better supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285191c85ff6f4d73b71ee879fec7166b\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned with the finding of the report from the Safe and Effective Justice Advisory Group that M\u0101ori experience worse outcomes than other New Zealanders at every stage of the justice process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022247bbe75ccb149a78df0bb756543d9ec\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am, and, as I\u2019ve already noted, the report showed that M\u0101ori are more likely to be affected by the criminal justice sector at all levels, both as offenders and as victims. That\u2019s why justice sector Ministers across the Government have already put in place a number of new initiatives that will improve outcomes for M\u0101ori by ensuring that we have less offending, less reoffending, and fewer victims of crime, who are better supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f9ce9b78b66445785dda5f5c6b2dd9d\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s intention regarding the Chief Victims Advisor\u2019s recommendation on partnering with M\u0101ori to design and deliver tikanga-based justice processes which fulfil Te Tiriti o Waitangi obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221513634fff6f4d30a0ae0639f2421d69\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has already begun moving on this. I point to the great work done by the Minister of Corrections in establishing the H\u014Dkai Rangi programme in corrections, which makes more effort to deal with the problems prisoners have as part of their offending. I\u2019d also point to the work of Te Pae Oranga iwi community panels with police, which is a community response to some offending to get offenders off a track to a bleaker future in the criminal justice system. In the justice space, we continue to support alternative courts such as Matariki, the New Beginnings Court, and the Special Circumstances Court, as well as specialist courts such as the sexual violence court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48de6fa9c97458cbfe399ec62b43073\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the intention of the Minister to recognise the need for alternative justice processes such as tikanga-based therapeutic and restorative justice processes as well to improve outcomes for victims and defendants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204925f93c7ef427c82395d6cb17bd742\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. One example of a more therapeutic approach is the alcohol and other drug treatment courts, and, as I\u2019ve already indicated, I was very pleased to announce that the Government will be making the existing pilot courts permanent as well as adding a new alcohol and other drug court in Hamilton. Again, I acknowledge the support of members Jamie Strange and Tim Macindoe for that initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258c8b1ef505c4cf7b4919cce6f82f61b\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: How will the extension of the specialised drug and alcohol courts reflect our Government\u2019s focus on rehabilitation and treating the causes of offending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a868db10a9824c8686e926938d36ae09\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: What we\u2019ve seen from the existing alcohol and other drug court pilots is that offenders who go through these courts are much less likely to reoffend\u2014significantly less like to reoffend\u2014because they get the treatment and support they need that addresses the causes of their offending. It\u2019s a great result for communities that those individuals come from. It means that we can do the harm reduction and the help that they need while they are in the community. That\u2019s why they are so positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022605fb6dc7b3640c992b92831f1bc12e5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00222255ecd897e244878aded30d6c8beb58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222255ecd897e244878aded30d6c8beb58\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f15077e06054e0fad71d1fcda309f31\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022918b16daed344add95e56ff60213c267\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221999d93e005347cca4a0fd91fe85015a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. There are too many Davids in this place\u2014fewer than there used to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de22aa58702a441c95f967b95f163bf2\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I agree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ba04da23da46f9a1af6d9880710a77\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that\u2019s good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ec1486fca9490088c1e57015b98405\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I note that this year you\u2019ve punished the Government by giving a hundred or more additional supplementary questions to the National Party. Well, here in ACT we\u2019re also hurt by the Government\u2019s bad behaviour, and in the interests of proportionality I wonder if you\u2019d consider giving a couple of extra supplementaries to ACT.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c76f1c533e4c4094b9c266f5547e4e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can discuss that with the National Party whips. David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f7ae75fcdc346d3b38718d8ecdbd2f4\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, I\u2019m asking on behalf of a different party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b16b73302b467192f3b85944e8f4b7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will consider giving you an extra supplementary in the new year sometime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b032cabd18974ce1a381c393c732fd4f\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The new year! All right\u2014Jesus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261718130836745ca8f40b786ff4457f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Consider it a Christmas present, on a promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223882e5cf76f8493fb971973deb4f0342\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: A rather late Christmas present, I have to say, but we\u2019ve never needed that many anyhow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219651aae345a4ad5b5a821511757221b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member\u2019s about to lose one if he doesn\u2019t get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c138bba21d46c9867ad235afa83a37\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! It\u2019s a hard row to hoe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225419ed346910471290a9caf259419a8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225419ed346910471290a9caf259419a8b\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the OECD that New Zealand is the most highly taxed country in the Asia-Pacific region when measured according to the tax-to-GDP ratio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6a7fd2ad7b64c108a1d7c6d4c708b18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6a7fd2ad7b64c108a1d7c6d4c708b18\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c83fb07d15f478ab381a1096eb16f5a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister of Finance disagree with figures produced by the OECD which show that New Zealanders, as a percentage of GDP, pay more tax than Japan, Korea\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec0f82c838c4482a96797bf885b2883c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Right. Well, the member didn\u2019t stop when I called him to order, so he won\u2019t have his second supplementary. Answer that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223088a2cd02f64bc3ab3dd719180e651b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Because I don\u2019t agree with the premise in the member\u2019s question about the definition of highly taxed, and nor do I agree with the selective geographical definition that the OECD used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d625c4ed414e60a4759a3079adf386\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It won\u2019t make any difference, but the way you just treated me is grossly unfair, and the fact that I can\u2019t even give examples to make a question intelligible is completely ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228858205b566c4db79c9737fac62bf8bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I note the member\u2019s comment. I think he\u2019s probably asking me for an early trip home to Auckland that\u2019s not going to be granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022689a83b04dae44559f139fd3bf281ea6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220e57615608bc4ef8ac1cb83212663260\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e57615608bc4ef8ac1cb83212663260\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he support the recommendations of the Turuki! Turuki! report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022113dcdc432bc42f091b7dd1aba268460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022113dcdc432bc42f091b7dd1aba268460\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I support some of the recommendations and am already addressing others. One of the recommendations I support is the call for a cross-party parliamentary accord for transformative justice, where the report suggests it is time to take politics out of the issue and put an end to bickering. I guess the member\u2019s line of questioning will make it clear whether or not he supports this recommendation as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223739cf23778b4130ad11d405862393eb\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he support recommendation No. 11 to establish community-based habilitation centres for some prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f463677a8c3146dc994dc356c7a9e0b7\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I support anything that\u2019s going to reduce reoffending, to improve rehabilitation, and I look forward to the member also supporting anything that supports rehabilitation and reduces reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db874fe8a5142d49e0ee1d2c6c067c0\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the work of decolonisation must begin in our justice system, and if so, what specifically needs to be decolonised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4245f8d58e544cc9283243fecfe400b\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s quite disheartening to hear the National Party denying the effects of colonisation on outcomes in New Zealand. You just need to a look at the fact that over 50 percent of the prison population is M\u0101ori. There\u2019s a substantive population that are Pacific Islanders in prisons. It\u2019s evidence that things have gone wrong, and colonisation is part of the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76423f9c54c4f4381f303a7e9cd15bc\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the report that there is institutional racial discrimination in the justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1fcfea5d63644fab4f9e7bf8122f36f\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if we look at the fact that there are so many M\u0101ori who are in the prison system, if there are so many Pacific Islanders\u2014and, in fact, I think it was Chester Borrows today who highlighted this, the Hon Chester Borrows, the former National Minister, who raised and emphasised this very point that we\u2019re making: that there are too many people of colour in our justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e221c67c34634a379afa0028204c2247\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What other recommendations has the Minister seen on transforming the justice sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dedef7de712f48e1ba3d952a24e3ea88\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware of one recommendation which provokes gangs to commit more crimes and drives them further\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b50728a3a44e82bc8d3a5a586b3fcc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s enough. The member should know that they don\u2019t use patsies to attack the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8ad2e6028d4a54b57462b9d08debd4\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the report that M\u0101ori communities should be able to determine their own responses to hara\u2014transgressions\u2014among their people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c19bfcd4947a4ba48271222c03178b0c\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Sometimes, but what we\u2019re doing in Corrections along our M\u0101ori Pathways programme is exactly that: we\u2019re asking M\u0101ori to determine what we need to do better so that they can support their people not to reoffend, not to go back to prison\u2014how we can help them to transition from prison into communities safely and be contributing members of society upon their release.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7c63a9545a441fbb33fc4b158088b48\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister support power-sharing of the justice system with M\u0101ori communities to create a M\u0101ori justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be311256c112423f9336aec46471e364\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: If we look at article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, where that talks about tino rangatiratanga, tino rangatiratanga means that M\u0101ori should have the opportunity to have a say in what they want for their people. We as the Government, under article 1 of Te Tiriti, around k\u0101wanatanga\u2014means that we need to be enablers of M\u0101ori aspiration. If we work together\u2014article 1 and article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014we should be able to achieve article 3 outcomes, which is equal outcomes for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eaf4780eb7e494d82489c142bacac67\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a simple question. A yes or no would suffice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213f4fa3a5df14696bc542f2f0f123ac0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! How long has the member been here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be207317f1974e149545ec621d9f7ee3\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e014f9d70cf47d696a039f33befa42d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a61aeb554e4e34ad375de7121889c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. That\u2019s enough. I\u2019m on my feet. There are two members who are going to withdraw and apologise. One said, \u201CToo long.\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5c0d0bd38d4b3f9a39654b913bc69a\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce732c6f36c64d128d61b29d1f329023\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221862d14be480430aba443004c45080d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And there was one more I heard as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256039ac9562c491c93c05b64391d2483\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: It was me. I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022755c00140cc148378ed37710c9d58831\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022308a095a580b4a8191bf110fca3d6f53\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I said, \u201CFive minutes.\u201D, and I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4c1ec042f6444d8335157067cdb43a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f6f327cf9f4f9e9b9f72f92626d2b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db0678995b24843bc1f89d54db5b06c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But the point that I will make is that David Bennett knows well\u2014he knows well. He\u2019s not a new member, and he\u2019s not a member that does not understand the rules of the place. That was a deliberate breach and therefore was designed to create disorder. I\u2019m going to let it go again, because it\u2019s close to Christmas, but he\u2019s facing some risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a8d1255f0874908a369c1859829edbe\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00227d36b9f350ef444cba7fd5c060f910f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d36b9f350ef444cba7fd5c060f910f1\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Ethnic Communities: What recent announcements has she made about community initiatives in ethnic communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac406885b229462fbd688bcf55aa36fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac406885b229462fbd688bcf55aa36fa\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Ethnic Communities: This Government is backing our ethnically diverse and multi-faith communities to plan and deliver more community initiatives and to ensure New Zealand is welcoming and inclusive for everyone. Last week, Minister Salesa announced an increase for the Ethnic Communities Development Fund, from $520,000 to $4.2 million a year. This represents an eightfold increase to the fund, the most significant lift in its history. This Government is delivering for all New Zealanders, and this funding increase will help our ethnic communities to thrive through the practise and celebration of their cultures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a8134f9fca4cef8613a3408cfd8099\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What has the fund been used for in the past, and what will this expansion mean for the 800,000 New Zealanders who identify with ethnic communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb8f0d584ab4ec89136c5aaf59ab008\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: This fund helps support much of the good work being done at the grassroots by ethnic communities. In the past, this fund has supported ethnic communities\u2019 sport and youth initiatives, multicultural events, ethnic women\u2019s centres, refugee and migrant services, and language initiatives. With this funding boost, more work can be done by ethnic communities to include and welcome ethnic diversity, promote understanding, educate New Zealanders about the contribution of our ethnic communities, and support the participation of our ethnic communities in employment and society more generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237338f275e9c4ee984284a53a6eb2832\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What changes are being made to how the fund is accessed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c61ccae7c8544c1ad38327043e7f514\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The changes we are making to the Ethnic Communities Development Fund are not just about this record investment; we are also providing more support for groups to apply and be recognised. Community advisers are available to walk side by side with groups that go through the application process, including support for those with English as a second language. The fund will also now operate on a rolling basis, with application decisions made throughout the year rather than just once annually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220da8e301942c4890994558ba52a65853\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Housing (Public Housing)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00228a11bb6c7e5041099791274fa31b5f76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a11bb6c7e5041099791274fa31b5f76\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): Have there been any evictions of state housing tenants for anti-social behaviour since this Government took office; if not, how does he reconcile his statement yesterday that there have been 24,386 reports of anti-social behaviour by state housing tenants in that time period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022138a946e77ad4f2e9986663fce7473e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Kris Faafoi, with a warning that I have been warned this is slightly longer than normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u002238221039d0f94249b40333bebac96790\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238221039d0f94249b40333bebac96790\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing)):\u003C/span\u003E For K\u0101inga Ora, technically an eviction is where a Tenancy Tribunal has ended a tenancy and a court bailiff takes possession of the property. When K\u0101inga Ora have to move someone on because of antisocial behaviour, it uses a business-initiated transfer to another, more appropriate property. In terms of antisocial behaviour, I\u2019m advised there have been 308 business-initiated transfers since the Government took office. I\u2019m advised that there has been one eviction since the Government took office. This is in the context of 185,000 New Zealanders in State homes and 65,000 K\u0101inga Ora properties. As I said yesterday, I recognise it can be tough to live next to someone who is an antisocial tenant, but some tenants have complex needs and these also have to be managed. These issues have always been complex. As a predecessor of mine said, \u201CWe know that steady housing helps provide stability and security, however, some tenants face eviction from their home for anti-social behaviour or financial issues, only to end up in need for emergency housing. If we can avoid them being evicted by resolving their behaviour, this benefits the tenant, their family, and the taxpayer,\u201D, and I agree with the former housing Minister Amy Adams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247fbf6bedfdc46c6af990653b484d457\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: How many business transfer protocols have there been since the Government took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c59f56821a154aa3968c1ba4631611c5\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is asking around antisocial behaviour, the number that I have is 308. I believe\u2014and I stand to be corrected\u2014from discussions I\u2019ve had with officials that the wider number of business-initiated transfers may be close to something like 380.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334beb3189a34d9aa44cbed5543944e2\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to neighbours of some State house tenants who have to put with daily abuse or said tenants barking at them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227660bd3081e34b1789dcc169e53e2027\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I would ask them that they go to K\u0101inga Ora to make an official complaint. I would also point out that if we take each of those 308 business-initiated transferees in comparison to the 65,000 properties that K\u0101inga Ora has, that amounts to about less than 0.5 percent. I\u2019m concerned that the Opposition wants to focus on 0.047 percent of those tenants and wants to stigmatise the other 99.5 percent of K\u0101inga Ora tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022933fb9e48c03471f8c98b42ef22a3c51\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with using taxpayer dollars to put neighbours of antisocial State housing tenants up in motels rather than evict or move on those troublesome neighbours, and if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7f2425a0274339a78d4aa999b47c37\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I have faith that the K\u0101inga Ora staff at the front line can manage those situations in order to keep those tenants safe. As I have said, there have been 308 business-initiated transfers to move antisocial tenants out of K\u0101inga Ora properties. That is in the context of 185,000 New Zealanders living in State homes and in 65,000 properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225672301896ea48c99a48b3a3e3fd62f5\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that response, does the Minister appreciate that his keeping the tenants safe is putting New Zealanders, as neighbours\u2014themselves and their children\u2014in harm\u2019s way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229134061cd42a43c592e31779f13bff3c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll let the member answer even though it\u2019s an out-of-order question. Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf806a520f5e47c3a1cd43a0a03f026c\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Look, as I had said yesterday, tenants are evicted when either staff, contractors, or neighbours could be seriously\u2014their safety is put in serious harm. As I\u2019ve said, there has only been one eviction technically, under K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s terminology, and 308 business-initiated transfers for antisocial behaviour. I\u2019m sure that people on the front line are taking into consideration the safety and the lives of the neighbours of some of these tenants who have to be managed. But at the end of the day, as former Ministers on that side of the House have said, they have to manage in the best interests of everyone, because if we kick those people or evict those people out of the properties, as the Hon Amy Adams has said, sooner or later they will end up costing the taxpayer more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229794dbf76e39451e9c369de1d53fe902\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister therefore agree with people like the Rotorua Motel Association chairwoman who says that motel emergency housing is in a \u201Cdire emergency\u201D, and what is he currently doing to keep it under control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f207b054164d78aa83dd40ca765594\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: We have always been honest that we inherited a housing crisis, which is why we have invested hundreds of millions in increasing the supply of support like emergency housing special-needs grants, like building more public housing when the previous Government was tearing them down and demolishing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224a7b913f91f24ac4bbd36dc72968cd2f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022be4acb72f85240d3be28eaaada19bcaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be4acb72f85240d3be28eaaada19bcaf\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: Does she stand by all her statements and actions regarding measles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7a6d4930ac0472f95d79fdeaed966ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7a6d4930ac0472f95d79fdeaed966ea\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context they were given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7458ffb5f404014b379f277e18b2226\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm her health officials declined multiple requests from Auckland DHBs for a national measles catch-up campaign going back to October 2017, despite her repeated statements urging people to be vaccinated against measles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb198df5c414836843689ab44a61e16\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s well known that it had been recommended to run a national catch-up campaign since 2014, which the previous Government did not do. Our Government has, in the past year, administered more than twice as many vaccines as the next highest year in the last decade, and we\u2019re actively looking to address the under-immunisation that exists in our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc40641f5884a16992e32200076d64d\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Did the refusal to support a national measles catch-up campaign two years ago contribute to the current measles outbreak? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db9cfedd89ab4f7399422f74b2ab071e\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbec7ea6d9e4d318020ec26a3adc393\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Why did no health officials undertake any form of contact tracing, including notifying airlines, following a young female passenger with measles who flew with Air New Zealand from the Bay of Plenty in March this year, as stated in answers to written questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab561e72f87142978bef8a65c9fadbf7\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that question is best put down in writing, but it\u2019s my understanding that contact tracing is not usually undertaken for people who are travelling by air. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc4593129ba4e55bff66b7801e24b77\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Has she addressed that question already in answers to written questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c158e74870452ba87e023ed75c2c51\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: It is entirely possible that I have. I have received over 400 written questions from that member in the past two months; unfortunately, I cannot retain to memory the answer to every single one of those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210a95416b9e54f28b91a19b4b9a2448a\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is she satisfied her management of the measles outbreak is up to standard when Official Information Act documents show that contact tracing of the young passenger with measles on Air New Zealand was undertaken by the \u201Cbackpackers\u2019 grapevine\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3f713a586d4711a07a644551e9c6e8\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: What I can stand by is our Government\u2019s absolute commitment to addressing the measles outbreak. There\u2019s been an enormous effort undertaken at DHB level to contain the outbreak, and the Government is actively looking at doing everything we can to ensure this never happens again in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002214663a8cdda34756a55bc7eedc0a8980\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u00221ee295ac721f4f928e643ca0bf701a99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ee295ac721f4f928e643ca0bf701a99\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What recent announcements has he made about New Zealand\u2019s tsunami warning capability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00228764a9a5fa1b4ea293e58be8c5ee1f05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228764a9a5fa1b4ea293e58be8c5ee1f05\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Minister of Civil Defence and I announced the deployment of a network of DART buoys on board the RV Tangaroa at the Aotea Wharf in Wellington. Yesterday, as I said, we sent the first shipload of five offshore, and bear in mind that when we found out what had happened\u2014we found out that the whole system had been allowed to run down to virtually nothing under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8023510a0974cf0ae1bad3260d0e037\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: What benefit does the DART buoy network bring? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3d2d474a8674cad9cc2bad7be593362\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: DART buoy stands for Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunamis. DART buoys are the only tried and tested technology that confirms the generation of tsunami waves before they reach the coast. So, in short, half the Pacific Islands were being exposed, and so was the top of our country as well, because of the gross neglect of that administration when they were in power\u2014what a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b931e9b68874d39bc8ee5b344594a2d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a complete misleading of the truth. Stop being reckless with the truth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c07eab310a44ef695fb59feac216fa2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022271734c1173c461e8ba41da6582610b2\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7440b29bb145c8b54e683f952404a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bennett is not helping you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9c3a87e362c44e2866714849c4f0f16\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t ask for his help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297cec380e5aa4a0aab6298c46c9c175b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s one wise comment the member\u2019s made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e5af9954c54c0fb91b5fc1664e36de\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That would be absolutely right. Now, the question is\u2014[Interruption] My comment\u2014I won\u2019t repeat it because you obviously didn\u2019t like it, but it was simply making a general statement; it wasn\u2019t making an accusation. How can that be out of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101ef44f18464a4e8774a9fbcab609f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that that statement has been ruled out on many, many occasions in the House\u2014many occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281adef8d8d4148429d4cee9515962c41\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: How swiftly has the Government acted to deploy new DART buoys?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022306b65e483674f6ea360936235480857\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On the very day that, as acting Prime Minister, I found out, I contacted my colleague Kris Faafoi, and we set straight to it. We didn\u2019t lose one day in ordering the equipment, which left yesterday from the Wellington harbour. That\u2019s what we did. It was dramatic, and more importantly, we were so aghast when we discovered what had happened\u2014we could not believe that a previous administration, whose obligation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c54ef47bf0554b13a5feb2bf156f60fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b338a7191ce54bde98c90b0a3e5aab9b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014was to the security of the Pacific people and the New Zealand people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249cf39b2ac494fe7b38a47538e1a46fe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225743d6415734d65be9272a0827d0aa9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014had done exactly nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ccce6c09f764a079277081b9dc447b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I think that\u2019s, sort of, repeat of use of supplement patsies for attacking the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb12f7521764e0a8511150b037b812d\u0022\u003EJamie Strange\u003C/span\u003E: Who paid for the new DART buoy network? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c668db6b9e4f8f8735e88a4a498702\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a very good question. The rejuvenated DART buoy network service is an excellent example of the good work that official development assistance funds in the Pacific do. Of the $47.3 million, $24.3 million came from the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management, $20.4 million came from the official development assistance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb945bccfd44c89ae84b0f64fb09225\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How much did the foundation give? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc87e077dd1a448c9cd4e9cc8dc84111\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as to the foundation of $100 million, the National Party can tell you all about that\u2014and $2.6 million came from our friends in Australia. Can I just say also that it was vital that this constructive effort be recognised when we found out the crisis that we, potentially, faced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c4801eb48ce49cf95e6aaa7eec33a36\u0022\u003ERemuneration Authority (Members of Parliament Remuneration) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002219af1e465d984af8947caa803c68e588\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022014c0efca8e34acaa95668b0014d44e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022014c0efca8e34acaa95668b0014d44e1\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions within this bill to be taken as one question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04a7975fb0246169360fb016f3840b0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: One debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7684db3623c47f9be4199c6c7a336cf\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: One debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002277eba3272b524c0a813bec47159a53ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277eba3272b524c0a813bec47159a53ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002285124eaf81a74f6dbae0a0db331c7389\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e51926c53cbc4e8da31d1b3af1c204ca\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022600e5e65789b475ab39bf6179dc7d9e4\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000234\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000235\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Remuneration Authority (Members of Parliament Remuneration) Amendment Bill (No 2) without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000236\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229427acca21fa4413a08fb5c40402534c\u0022\u003EEducation (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022418231c76d2d42e2a1efab399faaa750\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4b05204dfea4f529392b1f3f8ea057b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4b05204dfea4f529392b1f3f8ea057b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe passing of this bill is a significant step towards improving the pastoral care of tertiary students in our polytechs, our universities, our private training establishments, and our w\u0101nanga up and down the country. I want to acknowledge again and thank the members of the House for their constructive work to bring this bill to its final stage today. The bill will allow for an interim code of practice to be put in place and be effective from the beginning of next year. I\u2019d like to thank all of the officials who worked quickly and swiftly and tirelessly to develop the legislation and to draft the interim code so that it can be put in place in a very short space of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the family of Mason Pendrous at this difficult time for them, and I want to reiterate in this House that we want to do all that we can to take steps to ensure that no family finds themselves in the position that they have found themselves in ever again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis tragic event and the subsequent information-gathering by the Tertiary Education Commission into the pastoral care arrangements of student accommodation throughout the country exposed limitations in the current self-regulating approach to supporting our tertiary students. The voluntary code for student accommodation had not been reviewed since it was brought in 15 years ago, and in many cases had not been followed. We now have an opportunity to change this. The bill, and the subsequently developed code of practice, will provide greater certainty for students, their families, and for providers. The bill aims to address the regulatory gap for the pastoral care of domestic tertiary students. Families and wh\u0101nau have a right to feel assured that when their young people leave home after Christmas, they are going to be provided with the best possible pastoral care in terms of the safety and the support services that they receive. This bill and the interim code ensures that will happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EStudents need to know that there are minimum standards of safety and there is support available to them if they need it. Providers also need clarity around what they are expected to provide for their students, including specific requirements for halls of residence and for other student accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill is going to enable the code of practice for pastoral care of domestic tertiary students to be issued. It will ensure that providers are accountable for pastoral care standards and that their students can succeed academically in a safe, healthy, and supportive learning environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EFurther work is being done on the development of an ongoing code, and a consultation requirement\u2019s been inserted into the bill. The consultation with students, the wider tertiary sector, including consultation with the Privacy Commissioner, is going to be essential to developing an ongoing code that is robust and that\u2019s effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill enables the Minister to appoint a code administrator to monitor compliance with the code, and to issue notices and, importantly, sanctions if they are needed. I anticipate the code administrator will have a range of education, information, or influence interventions that are available to them so that they can promote good practice in line with the code of practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe entry and inspection powers in the bill will enable the code administrator to monitor or investigate compliance with the relevant code, and the provisions have been amended to strengthen the privacy of students by the select committee. The bill introduces a new criminal offence for breaches of the application of the code without reasonable excuse where those result in serious harm or death. The maximum level of the fine for this offence is $100,000. It also introduces a new civil pecuniary penalty for serious breaches, without reasonable excuse, of the applicable code.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe penalty and offence provisions will apply both to tertiary education providers and to signatories to the code for international students. Additionally, the bill introduces a dispute resolution scheme for domestic tertiary students. But that won\u2019t apply to the interim code in 2020. Details of the application of the dispute resolution scheme to domestic tertiary students will be arranged and agreed over the course of the coming year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOther than the new offence and penalty provisions, the bill does not propose to change the existing code for international students, which has been in place for some time, and transitional provisions carry forward that existing code.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to say again that I appreciate the cross-party and cross-House support for the bill, which has enabled the bill to progress through the House very quickly. The speed is important because it means that the interim code can be put in place from the beginning of 2020 to provide that assurance to students and their families while we work with them to ensure that we have a more long-term code in place from the beginning of 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe interim code will set out a general duty of pastoral care required of all tertiary education providers in relation to domestic students, and specific requirements for student accommodation. The purpose of the code will be to ensure that as far as practicable, domestic tertiary students can succeed academically in a safe, healthy, and supportive learning environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI do want to note that some providers may need to strengthen their existing systems and processes for pastoral care of their students. And I note that some providers are already providing a very high standard of pastoral care, with very robust systems in place. It\u2019s this inconsistency that needs to change, and it\u2019s also why I do not accept any excuses that might be made of increased costs, or any intention to pass those on to students as a direct result of the interim code next year, when providers should already be delivering the level of care consistent with that which the code requires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll be releasing the interim code shortly after this third reading. I understand a copy has already been supplied to the Opposition. Officials will work with the sector to support them in discharging their responsibilities under the code. The interim code will apply from 1 January, and, as I\u2019ve said, we\u2019ll be working to establish the permanent code, which will come into effect in 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ETo conclude, the bill is vital to ensuring that the protections and supports that we need to have are in place for the pastoral care of all domestic tertiary students. Tertiary students, but especially those young students leaving home for the first time, can be a vulnerable group. Their wellbeing is essential for them to be able to succeed and achieve their aspirations in education. The bill will ensure stronger protections are in place for students and student accommodation, it will support all domestic tertiary students to succeed academically in a safe, healthy, and supportive learning environment, and I commend the Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u002259547ead6f58455695562f9e937c053b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259547ead6f58455695562f9e937c053b\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I rise to speak to support this legislation. Firstly, I want to acknowledge the way that members have worked in terms of the Environment Committee to get what I think is an improved law. Can I acknowledge the Minister of Education on this issue. While I will address shortly some of the process concerns that we\u2019ve had, I think that parties across this House have worked constructively on this legislation. Dr Parmjeet Parmar, who chairs our select committee, can I take a moment to acknowledge you as well\u2014it\u2019s been a big year in education\u2014and all of those members on the select committee that have contributed to this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ELook, I think in terms of the purpose of what this is about, we all have already acknowledged Mason and his family. I think when the news of this situation became very apparent, that a young person had lay deceased and undiscovered for nearly eight weeks, it was with absolute sadness and concern that not only parliamentarians wanted to act, but also people across New Zealand have been really concerned about the situation. So National absolutely supports the objective of improving student safety, which is what we think will be the outcome of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EHowever, it is upon us to raise some of the issues of process, and it wasn\u2019t just us who were saying that, look, we know we need to move reasonably quickly, but several weeks compared to six months we were concerned about; it was also the Law Society who raised that. We also saw Treasury raise these issues of haste. Treasury went quite far in terms of their comments. The Law Society obviously raised those issues publicly, but Treasury went very far in terms of the unintended consequences that can occur when you move at haste, at pace, in terms of select committee. So we did have some concerns about process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn terms of the content and the improvement to the bill, I think it is important to acknowledge\u2014and we had this discussion at select committee\u2014that these are young adults. So this ability to move to create a safer environment via a code that can be enforced and with penalties was obviously at the front of mind for select committee members, but we were also aware of that balance of, as well, student privacy. So I want to address some of the amendments that we made at select committee. We obviously made an amendment to the original definition of serious harm. We made amendments around the reference to safety and wellbeing of students, we clarified the single pastoral care code, but this amendment was actually, I think, one of the most important, and that was where we were considering this issue of code administrators seeking consent of students and providing 24 hours\u2019 notice before inspecting rooms. That was about actually saying, look, we want a situation where every young person is safe. We absolutely understand it\u2019s a really tough time for many students. When they leave home, they may be more vulnerable. We know of some of the issues, whether it\u2019s alcohol or, potentially, people get bullied, or they feel uncomfortable because they\u2019re out of their normal comfort zone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EHowever, we do see the need to balance what are serious issues of safety and standards of tertiary accommodation with that issue of student privacy, and we on this side of the House really wanted to emphasise that. We heard some very powerful submissions from some people, including the Privacy Commissioner, and I want to acknowledge the excellent submission that he gave. I do want to acknowledge that on this side of the House we did want him to be formally consulted. We were not successful in achieving this as part of the legislative process, and I\u2019m sure Clare Curran will have something to say about that, but we were really, really keen to make that happen. We also made a range of changes, including the reasonable excuse defence around penalty provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo, again, I want to acknowledge everybody who\u2019s been involved in this piece of legislation, including Ministry of Education officials. We do support the overall objective. We understand the process in terms of the interim code. I assume that the code has gone to my colleague Dr Shane Reti, so I too will be having a look at that, and there is a transition that needs to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EBut I think, at the heart of this, what we supported on this side of the House was this ability to say to all of the parents in New Zealand that, actually, we can do better as a country in terms of tertiary accommodation. We can give you greater guarantees that we will never have a situation like what occurred to Mason Pendrous. Again, that is the purpose of this legislation: to lift the safety of tertiary accommodation but also to ensure that we have some basic accountability while balancing those real issues of privacy of students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ECan I just again finish by acknowledging my parliamentary colleagues for your contribution to this piece of legislation. It is great that we can be putting a piece of legislation to the House that has cross-party support in education. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00228186183ad83f4d898638d20631e56a82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228186183ad83f4d898638d20631e56a82\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. The tragic death of Mason Pendrous at the Sonoda campus at the University of Canterbury exposed the lack of a consistent approach to the welfare and pastoral care of domestic tertiary students in our country. This was a young man who had his life ahead of him. I want to acknowledge his stepdad, Anthony Holland, for your courage and I acknowledge your grief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI also want to extend a heartfelt thanks, actually, to the Opposition for the way that this piece of legislation has passed through the House so quickly and through the select committee process, and so constructively, so that parents and students going into halls of residence next year can be reassured that there is a code of conduct in place, an interim code of conduct, that is mandatory and that there will be the development of a permanent code of conduct through that time next year. So there was an imperative for this legislation to pass this year in order to ensure that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard that the bill enables the Minister of Education to issue that code of practice to provide that framework\u2014the pastoral care of domestic tertiary students. I just want to reiterate how important it is that that is a mandatory code of conduct and that all providers must comply with it. It\u2019s not just a code of conduct that\u2019s sitting in the back office that nobody ever really pays attention to\u2014that it also sets out arrangements relating to the administration, the monitoring, the compliance, the enforcement, the offences, the penalties, and the dispute resolution. So Parliament has worked hard on this piece of legislation, and it\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe select committee also made some important changes, tweaks, to the legislation mainly to improve language and definitions. The member Nikki Kaye may be interested to know that we actually have recommended that those affected by the code be consulted and that they include representatives of students, parents, providers, signatory providers and the staff of providers, and signatory providers as well as the Privacy Commissioner. So I\u2019m not sure that she had caught up on that, but we have actually accepted that the Privacy Commissioner be consulted. We also note that this bill does not override the Privacy Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to end with that, other than to acknowledge the submitters. There wasn\u2019t much time to submit. There were, I think, 22 submissions\u201411 submitters were heard, and the Privacy Commissioner, and while it\u2019s passed through this House quickly and an interim code will be released in time for next year, there will be a solid amount of work done next year to get that final code in place, and the consultation that\u2019s needed to take its time to make sure that that\u2019s right will happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI really commend this bill to the House. I thank the Minister for taking the initiative so quickly on this\u2014again, to the Opposition, to all the submitters and the officials that worked on it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022234bcb77acfa43799a09620f90bd8687\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022234bcb77acfa43799a09620f90bd8687\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call to support the third reading of the Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill. This bill was introduced after that sad incident that happened at Canterbury University. Nineteen-year-old Mason\u2019s body was in his room and nobody noticed. He was there\u2014his body was lying in his room for a number of weeks, and nobody noticed that he was not around. So my hope is that, through this legislation, we are making sure that this kind of incident will never happen again here in New Zealand. This bill allows the Minister to issue a code which will cover both the international pastoral care code and the domestic pastoral care code. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ETalking about the international and domestic pastoral care code, I want to highlight that when we talk about international students, our attention towards their pastoral care is a lot more than domestic tertiary students. I can understand to some extent why that exists, because international students come from different countries, different backgrounds, different cultures and societies, and they need time to adjust in our new environment here in New Zealand, and we want to make sure that we are providing them the best possible experience here in New Zealand while they are gaining their tertiary education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EBut for domestic tertiary students, we cannot take their wellbeing for granted. I understand that they are in the same country\u2014their home country here in New Zealand\u2014but there could be some young ones that are leaving their home for the first time to move into a hall of residence, and there could be some students that are leaving their hometown going into a different town. So for them also it\u2019s a new environment. For them they have to make new connections, new friends, and, on top of that, there are other pressures, of course\u2014to study, to do well in sports, and there are so many other activities that they might be involved in. So there could be so many reasons that these kinds of things can happen. So we want to see that we have a proactive pastoral care system for our domestic tertiary students as well. I fully understand the difference for the providers for international students\u2014that is, for international students the providers are to take all reasonable steps to protect them, and for domestic tertiary students they are to take all reasonable steps to ensure their wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn this legislation, the other thing that is very good is that the Minister is required to consult with students, their families, providers, and also the Privacy Commissioner before issuing a code of practice. I want to especially acknowledge the Privacy Commissioner, because he addressed a lot of concerns that we had during the select committee process. Of course, I want to acknowledge all 22 submitters as well for their contribution, and it\u2019s because of their contributions that we have been able to amend this legislation and bring this legislation back in this form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe really want this legislation to go through. We want to see that the interim code is in place ASAP, and then the permanent code is in place, because we are really concerned about the wellbeing of our domestic tertiary students. In this legislation, I also want to highlight that while we were trying to balance safety of domestic tertiary students, we wanted to see that their privacy is also maintained, because we know that for parents, their children will always be children and we would like to monitor them 24 hours, 7 days. But that\u2019s not practical, because, in reality, children grow up, and, once they are over 18, they need their space. We wanted to respect that in this legislation. So that has been done in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe third factor was accountability of providers. I just want to highlight one point\u2014other points have been already mentioned. This is establishing a student contract dispute resolution scheme. In this legislation, students will have access to this scheme for seven years. We think that seven years is a reasonable length of time, because that is the length of time for which most of the records are maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to talk about the definition of serious harm in this legislation, because serious harm is central to the issue that we are trying to resolve through this legislation. As the legislation was introduced, various kinds of medical and other interventions were listed under \u201Cserious harm\u201D. During the select committee process, we changed that. We didn\u2019t want those interventions listed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI was asked by the media about the select committee process. The question was: have you diluted the definition of serious harm in the select committee process? I don\u2019t agree with that, because we haven\u2019t actually diluted it; we have actually strengthened the definition of serious harm in the select committee process. We didn\u2019t want to exclude any kind of interventions by listing some interventions in a serious harms definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis bill is a much, much better bill after our work in the select committee process, and, once again, I want to thank everyone for their contributions. I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00225198f322003d4537bdc350c56e72fcd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225198f322003d4537bdc350c56e72fcd5\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to reaffirm New Zealand First\u2019s support for this Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill and, in doing so, to poignantly remember the reason why this bill, of course, is being pushed through with such speed through the parliamentary process: the passing of Mason Pendrous. I believe his father may be in the gallery, which makes this a very poignant occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EOf course, heading off to university or to vocational training, often in a different city or environment, is an exciting period for young people as they explore their new-found freedoms. But it is also a time when they\u2019re away from their support networks, potentially, and that leaves them vulnerable. Through this process, we have found that there have been some glaring gaps in our regulatory process for domestic students. From a New Zealand First perspective, it\u2019s very hard for us to see why our New Zealand students\u2014our domestic young people\u2014shouldn\u2019t have the same or very similar protections as what we give our international students. The bar should be very high for pastoral care for both of those categories of student.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo this bill, I don\u2019t want to draw it out too much. I think it\u2019s been well traversed by the other speakers. But this bill does bring in, firstly, an interim code for the 2020 year\u2014hence the speed of the process to get something in to give the parents and the young people some confidence that next year we will have addressed this gap in an interim way\u2014and a permanent code will be developed over the following year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EGiven it will be my last contribution on education matters this year, I\u2019d just like to take a minute to acknowledge the Education and Workforce Committee, which I very much enjoyed being on. I acknowledge the chair, Parmjeet Parmar. Also, our thoughts, of course are with Jan Tinetti, who is the deputy chair and leads the Government side. I know Jan will be watching now, so we wish you well, Jan, with your recovery and look forward to seeing you in the new year\u2014and all the members of the committee, actually. It\u2019s a really constructive committee\u2014both sides of the House. Of course, some are wiser than others, but we get there in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo, anyway, without further ado, I think this is an important bill. It\u2019s important that we get this through so that we can give parents and students everywhere the confidence that this regulatory gap has been plugged for the new year. So New Zealand First support this bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002296cb6891a42b4926871563e09b9f6337\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296cb6891a42b4926871563e09b9f6337\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill in its third and final reading here in Parliament. I too would like to acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Chris Hipkins, and also the chair of the Education and Workforce Committee, Dr Parmjeet Parmar, for this bill and for Parmjeet\u2019s work shepherding it through the House and also the Government\u2019s collaborative approach with Dr Shane Reti in terms of ensuring that the National Party supports this bill, which we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill is an important piece of legislation. It is about ensuring that the students, the young people who leave home and go to university for the first time, are given the care that they need\u2014the pastoral care that they need and that they deserve\u2014that our institutions are held to account for the care that they provide, and that there will be a code put in place which can then be used to ensure that the appropriate care is made available to these young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe circumstances which have brought us to this place have been well traversed, but I do just want to say that I think that this bill is a step towards ensuring that our young people and families have the confidence in the system going forward that their children, their loved ones, will be given the care that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI do hope that this piece of legislation will be something which won\u2019t be putting an increased burden on the costs for these young people. I think that\u2019s something which certainly the committee spent some time on. That was one of the reasons why we pushed for the consultation requirements for the code in this bill\u2014so that young people, families, and those with interests in student accommodation are actually properly consulted so that the code, while it has the appropriate requirements, is also not something which leads to such substantial increases in cost that young people find alternative accommodation where there might not be the same standard of care that we\u2019re hoping that they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s something that I\u2019ll be keeping a close eye on as that code is developed. But, in conclusion, the National Party will be supporting this bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002205f58794950345f2bb7226be79910c17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205f58794950345f2bb7226be79910c17\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I stand on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand, still as our tertiary education spokesperson although, unfortunately, no longer on the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022499289accd1f424ea003de2020594550\u0022\u003EMark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Boo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223edb720d7e9544e0846f51e91e49c04e\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: So I send my condolences, particularly to my colleague Mark Patterson, who I very much enjoyed sitting next to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut the topic of this legislation that brings us here in the Chamber today is actually of quite a sombre tone. I want to acknowledge, as all of those speakers who have so far, Mason Pendrous from the University of Canterbury, and his wh\u0101nau, who, you know, I have a limited understanding of the grief of that loss, but I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll still be grappling with that. So I want to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019m gutted\u2014and the Greens and, I\u2019m sure, all of us are gutted\u2014that it took a tragedy like this, a loss of a young life, to actually look at such a glaring gap in our legislation and in our care for young people who are going out there into the world, often leaving home for the very first time, and engaging in what should be a really exciting first new chapter out of the compulsory education sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhen I became our mental health spokesperson for the Greens in 2018, I went on a tour around university campuses to understand mental ill-health as it was presenting on those campuses, given that tertiary students are often those who are pretty good at voicing and communicating their concerns and what they perceive as political failings. In speaking to those university students, a number of themes presented themselves. Actually, a number of Residential Assistants (RAs)\u2014those being students who are put in a position to look after, at times, hundreds of students in university halls\u2014recounted to me that they had been put in positions with a huge amount of responsibility, next to no backing to do it, and a very limited period of time\u2014that being their supposed working hours\u2014to actually address those issues as they were presented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe way that one of these RAs put it to me is that students and parents, in particular, are sold this vision of university halls on these glossy magazine covers\u2014where, you know, why would you choose to go into a flat when you can go into this place, which is going to look after you and help you transition into a university lifestyle\u2014which for me actually brings out the point, to address what had been raised just then by my colleague Simeon Brown, around the potential for increasing costs. I believe it was put quite well by the Minister Chris Hipkins with regard to how any of those university halls and university providers who are speaking about increasing their costs in response to this are gouging. Because, quite frankly, it\u2019s indicative of how they have cut costs through cutting wellbeing, through cutting the pastoral care that they are supposed to be providing through that advertising that they\u2019ve put out into the world on those glossy magazine covers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhy on earth would any student, any parent, decide to put their child in one of these halls when it\u2019s cheaper to put them into a flat, if not for the supposed level of service that is provided through this kind of pastoral care that\u2019s supposed to be there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been raised by a number of those who have addressed the bill so far, the intricate details like how no pastoral care actually existed for domestic tertiary students, no code existed, prior to the passage of this legislation, at the end of these speeches today. A voluntary one was set up in 2004 but it hasn\u2019t been regularly reviewed or updated. I would hope that in light of this tragedy and in light of the anomaly, particularly, picked up between international and domestic student care, we don\u2019t let that lapse again, that we continue to keep that emphasis that is required on wellbeing and on the mental health of students, and indeed, of all in the society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also want to speak about the point that had been raised by a number of my colleagues, most notably the Hon Nikki Kaye. I sat on the Education and Workforce Committee up until the point that we reported this back to the House. I\u2019d just like to correct the record that it was actually myself who prompted the fact that there should be consultation with the Privacy Commissioner in here. That was off the back of a brilliant submission from the Privacy Commissioner. I did receive support from National Party colleagues at that point in time, but due to the bizarre vagaries of voting and all of us walking in and out of the room, I don\u2019t think we passed it through the select committee stage, but we did end up getting it through by amendment from the Minister. So thank you, Minister Hipkins, for paying attention to that detailed report from the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s really important to me that we have that consultation with the Privacy Commissioner. It\u2019s really important to the Greens because we\u2019ve seen an abuse of that privacy of students in a number of different situations in the past few years. University students at Otago University will be aware of their proctor engaging in some mischievous behaviour and walking on to their property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut we also want to make sure that we don\u2019t end up with a hyper-paternalistic model which talks down to our young people just as they\u2019re seeking to get their foot out there into the real world, which is also why it\u2019s crucial that alongside speaking to providers, to staff, and to parents, students are central to this conversation. That was a thread of argument that we heard from a number of student associations who submitted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust in summary, the Greens are proud and happy to be commending this bill to the House on a day that it appears that we\u2019ve got another piece of legislation with unanimity, particularly because it is so crucial to guarding the wellbeing of our young people. I hope very strongly that it is the case that we never again see the tragedy that fell upon Mason Pendrous and his wh\u0101nau. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdfa992c74744029ba3a5217e22b9ede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdfa992c74744029ba3a5217e22b9ede\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It is right that we try and do our best to achieve a balance around student safety with this particular piece of legislation, but also maintain student privacy, and for this particular young adult age, their right to act as an adult. So it has been a really interesting passage talking around incentivising and encouraging tertiary providers to do their best, but also looking at costs and the impact and, hopefully not but potentially, perverse effect of passing legislation for which we don\u2019t exactly know all the impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWe also did not know all the contents of the interim code that\u2019s about to come New Zealand\u2019s way. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the submitters who strayed into out of scope areas, and I realise and we can understand why they wanted to address what will actually be in the code, but this particular legislation did not address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWe do support the passage of this. We know that the current self-regulating approach has not worked and it was exacerbated or highlighted by the tragic death of 19-year-old Mason Pendrous. We\u2019ve just had confirmed, the New Zealand public, about 24 hours ago that we won\u2019t ever know how and why he died, but what we do know, and in the words of his stepdad, was that he wasn\u2019t the young man that died alone; he was the young man that changed the law. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002249cb52d960364e86b1e282d15d112dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249cb52d960364e86b1e282d15d112dd7\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, it\u2019s a great pleasure to rise and acknowledge the unanimous agreement here in the House for the passing of the Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill. I want to thank the Minister and officials in the select committee for this really constructive process. I was not a member of that select committee, but I acknowledge that this has been a serious matter that all parties have taken a very careful and compassionate approach to, to fix a gap in the system which none of us actually realised was there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the very tragic death of Mason and I want to acknowledge his stepdad in the gallery today. We hope that this piece of legislation goes some small way to ease the pain of losing your stepson. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dff05e616b844f66b30c2ef44c60414a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dff05e616b844f66b30c2ef44c60414a\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E It is deeply sad that it took the tragic death of Mason Pendrous for this legislation to come before the House. Members in this debate have acknowledged how horrified we have all been by the events that preceded his death and what it revealed about the quality of care in university hostels around New Zealand. Like others, I want to acknowledge his wh\u0101nau and I want to acknowledge all those affected by his loss. I want them to know that his death was not in vain. His death ensured that we lifted the lid on the lack of pastoral care in many student hostels, despite the fact that families pay very high fees for those hostels in the expectation that a higher level of pastoral care will be provided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe voluntary code did not work and that is why this House has come together to legislate and to put in place a framework which will be compulsory. I know that students here in Wellington have some concerns that a code of this sort could lead to higher fees for student hostels, and, to those students and to the people who run those hostels and to our universities, I say: do not let this be an excuse for raising your fees exorbitantly. It should be possible for good quality pastoral care to be provided within a framework such as this without huge fee increases. National supports this bill and we commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00228fd4b24d6ea545d48a45d02b810bd22e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fd4b24d6ea545d48a45d02b810bd22e\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E This is not a controversial bill. This is a bill that\u2019s needed. There are acknowledgments that have been made in the House tonight to the select committee, to the Minister, and to the family as well. So I\u2019ll keep it short and just commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7466aedd5764c9c966b7376d183c91a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7466aedd5764c9c966b7376d183c91a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E In similar vein, as the final Opposition speaker I will give a very brief response. I do want to acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Chris Hipkins, for the way in which he has dealt with this matter. I\u2019m sure that it has been widely respected. I also want to acknowledge the Education and Workforce Committee, who, clearly, were faced with a distressing situation and have handled it in a very sensitive manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs others have done, I simply wish to add to the expression of sympathy from colleagues right around the House to the family. I can\u2019t see them above me, but I understand that there are some in the gallery today. It is deeply distressing that the tragic death of a young man should have given rise to our understanding of the regulatory gaps that this measure is designed to address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo without wishing in any way to sound disrespectful by speaking so briefly, could I just say that I welcome this measure and, in particular, the very dignified and compassionate way in which all members have handled it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224f11ea23c5bb4f1788d0c2caba60900d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f11ea23c5bb4f1788d0c2caba60900d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E It is always a solemn occasion when this House\u2019s activity is prompted by tragedy, and I acknowledge people in the gallery who have come here to see what\u2019s going on today for that very reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI want to say that when people do send their children and young people to university, they place a solemn trust in that institution, and it is perhaps with surprise that we look back and discover that there wasn\u2019t a legal obligation as to how that trust was discharged. It\u2019s good to see that we\u2019ve managed to cooperate and move quickly to put in place this measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI must say, having spent a lot of time as an academic at a university and as one perhaps does grow a little older, we realise the considerable distance and perhaps immaturity of some of those students and the fact they do need care and they are not adults who are necessarily able to weather the storm of what goes on in that situation. So this bill is a good measure. It will have to be proportionate, because not all students are the same and we know that many students live in halls of residence and so on and they may be 20-plus years old and will able to manage, but it\u2019s those 17- and 18-year-olds that we\u2019re particularly concerned about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt was also of note that in this instance this was a privately managed institution, one in which the duties had essentially been subcontracted, and that may be a lesson for us. But I know that the vice-chancellor of that university, Cheryl de la Rey, is working very hard to rebuild the trust around what goes on in that university. I wish her well in that. I know she absolutely has the interests of those students very much at heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo in terms of this bill, it\u2019s a tool with which to put in place these codes of conduct that the Minister has oversight of. It\u2019s an important step and one in which we can now make sure that that solemn trust that we have to look after our young people in the education system is discharged. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221463cea4d1fb40d099714e84082bbfa2\u0022\u003ETerrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225dd334fe8271422c8ff6360380896a54\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223e1aaf1087154f07bdaf60c8e87c39ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e1aaf1087154f07bdaf60c8e87c39ce\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased at the passage of this bill through the House, the examination that it received at the committee stage, and it is now in very good form, the House having approved also a Supplementary Order Paper in my name that made some added improvements to the bill. Obviously, the examination that the bill received in the select committee did not lead to a majority decision on suitable changes, but we were able to get those changes through that part of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thankful for members who participated in the debates, who have given it close scrutiny and close examination, and I think this bill is now in good shape to perform a very important function, which is\u2014knowing the changing situation in Syria and the other parts of the Middle East, knowing that there was a very small number of New Zealanders who travelled to that zone for reasons ideological, philosophical, or religious reasons to do things that we find antisocial and antithetical here\u2014that we need to have the means in place and give the Commissioner of Police the tools to deal with those people who come back and pose a risk to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe know that the Terrorism Suppression Act from the late 2000s\u20142007-08\u2014is a piece of legislation that had huge gaps in it. It was problematic; the police said that at the time, the Solicitor-General said that at the time, and this Government has taken up the task of totally reviewing that piece of legislation. In the course of that review, it\u2019s become apparent that we need to have mechanisms such as these control orders to alleviate the risk that people who have participated in events abroad, in conflict zones, would pose to New Zealanders. I might add that it was in 2014 that a UN resolution required member States to have the means in place to deal with returning foreign terrorist fighters. That hadn\u2019t happened by the end of 2017, and it was for this Government to embark upon that task.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe review of the Terrorism Suppression Act will continue, and there will be a comprehensive range of proposals brought back to this House in due course\u2014I expect, sometime next year\u2014but we needed to have the means in place to deal with this now. Once Cabinet had approved the policy on that, we had a suggestion from the National Party that they would approve it in principle but that they wanted to see the detail; that\u2019s entirely reasonable. When the bill was drafted and approved, a copy was sent to the National Party. I received a message in writing that the National Party would support the bill. There were no conditions attached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESubsequently, the National Party issued a statement saying that they required some changes or they wouldn\u2019t support it. That got into an exchange that I think is most unfortunate. Members opposite, in the course of the debates in the House, characterised the bill as weak. That is wrong. This provides extraordinary powers that do not apply, would not apply, to any other citizen, but we need that because of the risk posed, and I just think it\u2019s unfortunate that on matters of national security, some think that it\u2019s OK to get into rhetoric and puffing our their chest and saying all sorts of weird and wonderful things. That is not appropriate, it is not good for New Zealand, and I\u2019m disappointed that that happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn any event, we now have the bill in this form. The committee of the whole House approved Supplementary Order Paper 415. It does a number of things\u2014not unusual, but bearing in mind these orders are orders of a court, a High Court judge; a judge needs to weigh the information before him or her to impose the orders. They will want to know that any risk posed is a real risk, and so that word has been used as a consequence of the Supplementary Order Paper. The bill will be reviewed after two years. That is hardly problematic, because the entire piece of legislation that it amends is under review now anyway, and so that is an appropriate thing to have. Then there is a provision also that allows those subject to any order to get access to legal aid to review it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a civil process, a civil order, for people who have not been convicted of a crime. They might have been assessed as posing a risk and as having done something abroad that is antithetical to our values and therefore they pose a risk, but they haven\u2019t been convicted of anything, and those who genuinely subscribe to the principles of the rule of law will know that if it is not a criminal process and there is not a criminal sanction and it is just a civil process, then we have to encroach very carefully on rights and freedoms. Because, of course, the other thing is that it is possible for these processes to get it wrong. So it is right that we have appropriate safeguards. It is right that we seek to draw a correct balance. We have done that in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is a piece of legislation that will afford safety and security to New Zealanders for that very, very small number of people who might be subject to one of these orders, and, of course, we will continue the review process and continue to support the wonderful work that our police do and, indeed, the agencies who support them to keep our communities safe. On that basis, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00221ab7fc549f694e209414fb29b40b7d83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ab7fc549f694e209414fb29b40b7d83\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m a bit sad to see the Minister isn\u2019t going to remain in the House, but anyway I just wanted to outline the actual process that has brought us to the House today for the third reading of a bill, the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill, that is weak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThroughout the whole process of this bill, we have seen the sponsoring Minister, Andrew Little, himself get up and make two contributions\u2014one for five minutes and then again, today, another one for five minutes, when for both speeches he had a 10-minute allocation. He didn\u2019t even use half his time to speak to the bill. We went through a committee of the whole House\u2014not one member opposite stood to take a call. The Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little, responded three times to issues that I raised through the committee of the whole House. He wouldn\u2019t respond to one of those issues to give us a clear answer and to the people at home that were actually watching the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELet me take you through the process of what actually did happen with this bill. The Minister asked me about four months ago to go to his office for a meeting, and he briefed me with his officials and said that we\u2019ve got an imminent threat of Kiwis returning to New Zealand who have been involved in, sponsored, or supported some type of terrorist activity. I said to him, and I indicated to him very clearly in that meeting, that we would support him\u2014we would support the Government. There was no problem at all; we understood that when it comes to matters of national security, it should be bipartisan. The two major parties in this Parliament should work responsibly together to make sure that we have the strongest possible legislation in place to ensure that we actually can protect our citizens. That\u2019s a fundamental role of any Government: to protect the safety of their citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI said to him very clearly, \u201CWe understand that one of your coalition partners will not support you.\u201D The Green Party, in the history of this Parliament over the last 20 years, have never supported any legislation that\u2019s been brought into this House to deal with terrorism\u2014ever. So he said that they needed us; it was clear that the Government needed us to support them on this bill. The only thing that I did ask was, \u201CPlease, when you take your proposals through Cabinet, please ensure that our security agencies, the police, have got the ability to be able to detain someone at the border.\u201D If someone arrives unannounced\u2014because, in a perfect world, we would have a notification from our coalition partners or the countries that these people are leaving from. Hopefully, the system would work and we\u2019d have a prior notification in which we\u2019d have the time to respond and to get a control order\u2014in this place, an interim control order\u2014in place. That\u2019s the perfect world. We don\u2019t live in a perfect world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo if we did have someone arrive at our border unannounced and we had information that indicated that they had been involved or could have been involved in some sort of terrorist activity, we needed to be able to protect our people by giving the police the ability to be able to detain that person, and we proposed in our amendment \u201Cfor 72 hours\u201D in which time an interim control order could be applied for and put in place by the High Court. The police themselves\u2014and let me make this very, very clear: the police themselves\u2014in the select committee process reiterated several times that the amendment that we were putting up to give them the ability to detain a returning terrorist for 72 hours was a tool that they welcomed. They explained to us and said that it is highly unlikely at Auckland International Airport, even if you were to use the Customs department to detain someone\u2014and they can only do it legally for up to four hours and, actually, even they were nervous about whether or not they had the legal right to do that under their legislation. But, even if they did and they detained that person for up to four hours, they have to release them. The police said that in Auckland, it would be virtually impossible to get a surveillance team in place to be able to pick them up as they left the airport. That\u2019s why they asked for\u2014that\u2019s why they needed\u2014our amendment to give them 72 hours to detain that person to ensure that we could get a control order in place. This bill fails at the first test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe Minister should not be standing in this House and telling New Zealand that this bill provides the protection that they deserve. It does not, and I find it very interesting and I\u2019d welcome the Minister to debate me on this issue\u2014sit down in whatever forum and we\u2019ll discuss it and we\u2019ll debate it\u2014because he certainly wouldn\u2019t engage with me through the committee of the whole House. He made a backhanded insult saying that there was no intellectual rigour to the issues that I was raising, and yet he stood up and he flimflammed. He wouldn\u2019t address it. To this day, he has not addressed this issue. He has not talked to it. He hasn\u2019t spoken about the fact that he said he wanted to give the agencies the tools that they needed. Our most important agency, the police\u2014the ones that are responsible for this\u2014have told him the tools that they need that they\u2019d welcome. He\u2019s completely ignored them. I\u2019d ask a member of the other side to stand up and respond to that and explain why we\u2019ve ignored it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ENow, this is the worst thing about the whole thing: that we did put up seven amendments. I did go and meet with the Minister again, with our leader, the Hon Simon Bridges, and we took our seven amendments and we wanted to negotiate. We wanted to actually\u2014we had our fixed ideas around what we could move on and what we couldn\u2019t in terms of making this a stronger bill. The Minister completely rejected that. It was very obvious to us in the meeting that there was no will to negotiate at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI had Phil Goff in my office two days ago. We were talking and he reminded me about the fact that when I chaired the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee we had to rush through legislation\u2014the countering foreign fighters bill\u2014for virtually the same reason. I want to acknowledge the Hon Phil Goff, a past Labour Minister of Defence, and David Shearer, a past leader of the Labour Party, because they worked very closely with myself and with Wayne Eagleson, and with the Hon Chris Finlayson, and they actually had amendments that they wanted to have made to the bill. We worked together, we collaborated together, and we made amendments to the bill, we made changes to the bill, right? That\u2019s how it should work. That\u2019s how the process is undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s this Minister done? This Minister has decided, \u201CNo, I won\u2019t work with the National Party. I won\u2019t\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c26d0df5a824bcb9ad0ba351a714c80\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Talk about good faith\u2014that\u2019s a bit rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235cf8b865e224f989a267c5bc5a2fe18\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, take a call. If you want to say something, take a call, because I\u2019m telling you now, Priyanca\u2014what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1117f7b17614488a0254b5838a6cfa2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Radhakrishnan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db1447540b2419eaae392c65c53bd61\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Radhakrishnan\u2014Priyanca Radhakrishnan, if you want to stand and make a comment then take a call. I guarantee you won\u2019t\u2014I guarantee she won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo this is what the Minister did. The Minister wouldn\u2019t negotiate with us. He wouldn\u2019t work with the National Party to strengthen the bill\u2014to make sure the bill would actually put the protections in place. He went to the Green Party. He negotiated with the Green Party. And do you know what? Golriz Ghahraman\u2014I have to tip my hat to her\u2014she was saying today that she got everything they wanted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af08b44a51a54b8bad9c6160b0810a6d\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: It was easy, she said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614834fd3d2f4a40ba83f533bf7a7d6e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: It was easy. She said it was easy. The Minister\u2014the Labour Minister of Justice rolled over and he gave every concession and every amendment and every change that the Green Party wanted, bearing in mind that the Green Party don\u2019t support bills like this. The focus shifted\u2014I can tell you now\u2014from protecting our people in New Zealand to protecting the rights of a returning terrorist. That\u2019s where it shifted. Do you want to know the real crime of the whole thing\u2014and this is a disgrace\u2014is that the New Zealand First Party and the defence Minister, Ron Mark, who was handling this for their party, have rolled over like the Labour justice Minister, and they have agreed to amendments that brought the focus to human rights and protections of a terrorist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223412d3a9d017419ca86b53662c87787f\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, how terrible!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb44c18f82204a4aab1115ab7d8bcabe\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, how terrible? It\u2019s funny, is it? You think it\u2019s funny. So the human rights of a returning terrorist or someone involved in terrorism is more important than the safety of our law-abiding citizens in New Zealand\u2014that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying. People will judge you on that\u2014people will judge you on that, trust me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got a Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc01054ff1a4490db410de006fc92079\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c885d9e4ea76458fb4a6b409683a1ffc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Be careful of what exactly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206ee3987e74141dc8f11e4e285594f4a\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: That some people have less human rights than others\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4491d747f24b7bb0f8a442dd9aadd8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. Now, look\u2014sorry, sorry, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff192e2cb7f40f092d6d1a057b7400f\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: He asked me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb7a6a5b7a154b548d0496788384bb59\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you will have your turn. You keep on. You\u2019ve got another 27 seconds, and let\u2019s just calm down with the interjections. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6079ed9c2304825a65cdead8cf774c2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got a Labour justice Minister that has completely capitulated to the Green Party. Instead of working with us to strengthen the bill and negotiate around our amendments, he\u2019s gone to the Green Party and has agreed to all of theirs. That is a travesty. That is a travesty because the Government of this country have treated the safety of New Zealanders as a trivia\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296526f9414164edb879ed4156f5926f1\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b1423de7444b66ac92af6b25f41e12\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d982c4cd4214696b5a2c391b8869e30\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no\u2014his time\u2019s ended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e084ba83029f490cba252554cf782ad1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, well, I decide that, not you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3ca254ec4c455ab013087af158e65e\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. I was just taking the call, that\u2019s all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfd355db7b324ecc86bbf67ec5813e7f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3ed112b93594238b9a58e9b2622bc2e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0f94a502fa842b090e268f46bfeb235\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Your time has finished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u002215442b34e34e4d90bdc7cab8a9c093a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215442b34e34e4d90bdc7cab8a9c093a2\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da7c57217a64e1aa39f21c54fb5ccb1\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Have you got hurt feelings as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4e8e3d3baf4a6f8bd62ec6c18edcf6\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: I do have hurt feelings as well, but not as much, obviously, as the previous speaker, Mark Mitchell, who has just resumed his seat, who has spent 10 minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bda8e17c445045d58602542b99073780\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Having a whinge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac6ef548daf4470893c196f2d01e23e4\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, 10 minutes having a whinge because of bruised egos, actually. I just want to make a point, because Mark Mitchell, you told me to take a call\u2014I was going to anyway\u2014but I just want to respond to your point about good faith. You spent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ce94015c674c34ab3354b8e30761ce\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just be careful when we get into this \u201Cyou, you, you\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6169e10bde04696ae0682884d7d589a\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. I\u2019d like to respond to his point around good faith, because I think it\u2019s a little bit rich coming from him, given that that was the party that provided support in writing to this bill and then withdrew it. I don\u2019t consider that good faith, Mr Mark Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb2d4ec709b84052bf11e1b493612da4\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: They flimflammed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a5f751217a148489c515e2cd78b6c7c\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: So they \u201Cflimflammed\u201D, Mr McAnulty says. Look, so you could wax lyrical all you want about the fact that there\u2019s a particular way to work and so on and so forth\u2014perhaps they should model it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, on to the bill. The point that I want to make about the bill is that it\u2019s a bill that aims to balance a few different things. That\u2019s what members opposite don\u2019t seem to get. We sat through that at select committee as well, where all the Opposition wanted to do was to make it more punitive and harsher, because for some reason they think that equates to safety\u2014it does not. What equates to safety is actually changing the behaviour that led to the lack of safety in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does\u2014what this bill is designed to do\u2014is respond to a risk that\u2019s posed by a very small number of people who will potentially return to New Zealand from a conflict zone, people who went there because of ideological, philosophical, or religious convictions that are actually contrary to the values that many of us hold in this country. That is the risk that we\u2019re trying to mitigate with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, what we need to do and what this bill aims to do is to ensure that we actually strike a balance between the management regime that we have for those people who are coming back to New Zealand to make sure that they don\u2019t pose a risk to the rest of our society and to the rest of New Zealand, but also bearing in mind that these are people who haven\u2019t been through the conventional criminal justice system and the conviction process and therefore cannot be treated as criminals. That\u2019s what members opposite don\u2019t seem to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EAt select committee there were discussions around the fact that we need detention without arrest. That is something we would never support, because that\u2019s going down a very, very dangerous path. The age of detention\u2014reducing that to 14 years of age when we know that Oranga Tamariki has the ability and the capability to deal with that much better than we could through this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238910681571e4e39aa461b9961f1fff1\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got a weaker bill than Australia, the UK, and Canada. Thank you very much, Labour!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff3eda49203f4d2d84266151159bc5e2\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: So despite the constant interjections, which, frankly, I can\u2019t make heads or tails of, from the Opposition\u2014just like the speech\u2014what I would like to say is that this is a good bill. It addresses a real risk that many countries are currently facing. I want to commend the Minister for his work on getting it to where it\u2019s at. I also want to acknowledge colleagues who are on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. We might not have agreed but we had some really good, robust debates about this. I think everyone felt incredibly passionate about it and wanted to see it better. We just, ultimately, disagreed on what \u201Cbetter\u201D looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a good bill. It addresses a real risk, a real problem, and I want to commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b924a903c1e74c11a06d2a04d9d22a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b924a903c1e74c11a06d2a04d9d22a26\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E We are not supporting this bill and we do not believe that any of the claims that are made about it can give New Zealanders any confidence that their security is enhanced by the existence of this bill. The speaker who just resumed her seat, Priyanca Radhakrishnan, is right in describing what it is that we\u2019re attempting to do via having this bill here in the first place. The problem is it doesn\u2019t do the things that it says it does in the initial statements of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to go through a couple of things. Firstly, if someone is to be picked up at the border and potentially subject to a control order, they will be a known criminal terrorist. Our intelligence interactions internationally will have helped our agencies identify that person, or our own agencies will have been able to identify that person, particularly if they are a returning former New Zealand passport holder. So when they are picked up at the border, they can be held for four hours only, and the application is made to the High Court. Then, once the control order is issued, it\u2019s served upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ENow, what will be in a control order? That\u2019s found as a list of examples, but apparently not exhaustive\u2014they don\u2019t have to be these things; they can be a lot less\u2014in clause 16 of the bill. Interestingly though, in all of this\u2014there are all of the provisions that are there about what can be in a control order\u2014there is a caveat right at the front of the bill, where it says that in determining any requirements imposed, the court must also consider how requirements, if imposed, will or may affect a person\u2019s personal circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWell, forgive me, but I thought the reason they were being apprehended at the border was because we were worried that their personal circumstances might pose a threat to the security of New Zealanders. So why is it that we have a requirement in a bill that\u2019s supposed to protect New Zealanders for a court to consider the personal circumstances and the imposts that the various control orders might have on the known criminal terrorist? It doesn\u2019t make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s take one of the provisions here. Clause 16(h) states the person could be prohibited or restricted \u201Cfrom holding accounts, possessing certain financial instruments, or using specified financial services:\u201D. Now, that would seem reasonable. We don\u2019t want one of these people coming into the country and then amassing the money from offshore donations or whatever in order to buy the equipment they need to carry out their terrorist intent if they\u2019ve still got it. We don\u2019t want that happening. So that\u2019s understandable\u2014except that, go back to clause 11(3)(a) in the bill, right up front, that says that in determining any requirements imposed, the court must also, beyond personal circumstances, \u201Cconsider \u2026 (for example, financial position, health, and privacy);\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWell, we don\u2019t have a cash economy to a great extent in New Zealand these days. People do rely on bank accounts. I would suggest that given the references in here to the court also being mindful of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act obligations, it would not use that clause and impose the restriction on a person being able to have a bank account. Once someone has a bank account, anyone who has done any degree of internet banking will know that there are infinite possibilities from the number that you have as your base account. So that\u2019s a load of nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there is another one in here. Clause 16(j) says, \u201Crequire the relevant person to reside at a specified address agreed between the relevant person and the Police (or as otherwise specified by the court) and to remain at that address between specified times each day, or on specified days\u201D. Now, that sounds interesting. The known criminal terrorist sits down with the police and, presumably, an officer of the court, and they negotiate where the person is going to live and all the things that go with it, except that further into the bill, clause 17 says, \u201CNo requirement of the kind stated in [section] 16(j)\u201D\u2014that\u2019s the one I just quoted\u2014\u201Ccan require the relevant person to remain at a specified address for more than 12 hours in any 24-hour period.\u201D So the police can only surveil someone for 12 out of any 24 hours. So what do we do? The police stay up all night watching the person sleep. It\u2019s a complete load of rubbish. It means that surveillance is practically, for all intents and purposes, impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe worst of it is that if that person decides they\u2019re not going comply with that, we go into the provisions under clause 31, where there are breaches of the requirements, and it says how they can breach that. But what it makes it clear is that it\u2019s a misdemeanour type thing\u2014a fine of no more than $2,000 or, potentially, one year in prison. Well, if someone doesn\u2019t, you know\u2014a couple of hours away from their 12-hour surveillance or whatever, no court\u2019s going to go hard on them for that. So that\u2019s another one of those very loose and rubbishy sorts of requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThen there is, in clause 16(p), \u201Crequire that the relevant person, if they have given and not withdrawn their informed consent to do so, engage with specified rehabilitative services\u201D. So someone comes in\u2014they\u2019ve been radicalised; they are known to be a criminal terrorist, because they wouldn\u2019t be in this situation if they weren\u2019t identified so\u2014and has the court say to them it would be a good idea to go through a deradicalisation programme. Do they have to do it? Not according to this bill, because it\u2019s written here, in clause 19(1), that no relevant person may be made to remain subject to the requirements of the kind that I\u2019ve just spoken of in clause 16(p) of the bill unless the relevant person, firstly, has been advised about what the treatment will be\u2014well, that\u2019s fair enough\u2014and is competent to make an informed decision. Well, that would be good. That would be a positive thing. \u201CYes, I do want to be deradicalised.\u201D would be a great thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut then it says in clause 19(1)(c), \u201Cgives, and has not withdrawn, informed consent to [engage]\u201D. In other words, it\u2019s optional. It\u2019s totally optional\u2014if you feel like it. Then it goes on to say, just to make it absolutely clear, in clause 19(2), \u201CInformed consent of that kind can be given, withheld, or withdrawn by words or conduct.\u201D So you just don\u2019t turn up. No problem whatsoever. Then it goes even further to make that clear. Clause 19(3) states, \u201CNo \u2026 conduct, or form of words, is required to give, withhold, or withdraw informed consent of that kind.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat one of all of these potential restrictions on known criminal terrorists is anything other than voluntary? This is an extremely weak bill. It provides for known criminal terrorists to be treated better than New Zealand criminals\u2014we don\u2019t want them to be treated particularly well\u2014who are on remand, for example. I can\u2019t understand how anyone in this House thinks that they can genuinely tell New Zealanders this bill is the bee\u2019s knees\u2014that this will stop people at the border coming in who have criminal intent to commit terrorist activity. It won\u2019t. It simply means that we can know who they are and then if we want to do something about them, they have to give their informed consent and volunteer to be part of that programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHow\u2019s that reasonable? I\u2019d ask how many Government members have actually read the bill. I doubt any of them have read it. I don\u2019t even think the people on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee read it, with all due respect. I do pay a tribute to Golriz Ghahraman because she told the committee this morning that the Greens did negotiate all this. It is their idea. Yes\u2014nodding her head wonderfully\u2014and then I said, \u201CGosh, you must be a good negotiator.\u201D She said, \u201CNo, it was easy. It was easy.\u201D Well, I wonder how many people would have experienced those sorts of negotiations with Andrew Little in the past? Not many, I would suspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo congratulations to the Greens. The Government with their input has delivered an incredibly weak bill. When it comes to the whole issue of human rights and New Zealand Bill of Rights Act issues, what about the vast majority of the New Zealand population who don\u2019t want to be bothered by these people? Well, they don\u2019t get their rights considered. It\u2019s all in the favour of a person who, I state again, is a known criminal terrorist. I say that reading it against the conditions that are put in the bill for how those people are identified. So on the one hand, the bill identifies who we\u2019re talking about, and then on the other says, \u201CWell, if they agree, we\u2019ll do something about it.\u201D It\u2019s hopeless, it\u2019s pathetic, and it\u2019s very sad that it\u2019s going to pass today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00224d112b2bbfed48c19c10fa0d72988242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d112b2bbfed48c19c10fa0d72988242\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E It befalls me to speak for New Zealand First on this bill. I am not sure that there is a great deal more that can be added to the conversation on this other than to say that New Zealand First\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b306ded137f843c6870f9886fbb77267\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a laughing stock, Ron.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d3b33c21d947c39de32d9173322620\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Mitchell says I\u2019m a laughing stock, and I guess I do have a right to respond to that. I\u2019d say that, you know, sadly, if people had a look at that member\u2019s track record as a Minister of Defence, people would say the same about his work rate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be566c7f43654a5691543415a185aaf8\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re happy to say that, but I\u2019m telling you, on this bill, you\u2019re a laughing stock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f6174d88d84707a422140f8cc9bb6b\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and about his achievements and what he never got through anywhere. I think the greatest thing that anyone can do for the security of this nation, Mr Mitchell, is actually equip the men and our women of our defence force with that which they need to do their job, and I\u2019m about doing that. That\u2019s all I have to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e195f83b0c8a463799ea7b0414a1ab49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e195f83b0c8a463799ea7b0414a1ab49\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I share the disappointment on this side of the House. At this point, it looks like the bill will proceed. I would certainly encourage the New Zealand First Party to reconsider. They have always put themselves forward as the party of law and order and strengthened security, and the Minister who has just resumed his seat, the Minister of Defence, has spoken rightly on that in the past, and again I would encourage them to stand up to those principles and vote against this bill. It\u2019s not a good piece of legislation. What it intends to do will not be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019ve wondered when it comes to issues of national security whether you\u2019ve sort of just got to accept that adage that the perfect is the enemy of the good. In other words, you go, \u201CLook, OK, this is not good. In fact, this is a very bad bill, but in the interests of security, with the little bit of improvement it will bring, should I vote for it? Should National vote for it?\u201D But the more I reflected on it, this is actually going to make things worse. If this bill passes the Parliament, it\u2019s going to put us into a false sense of security that, actually, we\u2019re able to handle returning terrorists to New Zealand, and I believe we won\u2019t be achieving that. We\u2019ll think after today, if this does pass its third reading, that it\u2019s done and dusted, it\u2019s all tickety-boo\u2014that when these lunatics come back, we\u2019ll just be able to put these control orders around them and it will all be fine\u2014but there\u2019s a number of gaps and problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI pointed it out in the committee stage of the whole House\u2014which, again, as others have mentioned, was disappointingly quick, primarily because this side of the House, the Opposition, spoke, we took that element of national security seriously, we debated, we raised questions, we waited for the Minister\u2019s response, but we by and large waited in vain, including from members of the Government, to try and argue or justify their position. But I mentioned in that debate that the gaps that are presenting themselves may, if you will, be low probability, but they come with high risk. So, yes, it is a low probability, I would suggest, of someone returning to this country unknown to our intelligence services, or unknown that they are returning. That is a low probability; it probably won\u2019t happen. But if it does, it brings enormous risk\u2014enormous risk. I think the nature of who these people are has been downplayed by the Government side far too often. These zealots, these fundamentalists\u2014if you will\u2014these terrorists are not someone that you can sit down over a cup of tea and just have a little discussion with and express to them the wonderful values of progressivism and how they\u2019ve just got it all wrong. As I said yesterday, they\u2019ll look at you, they\u2019ll smile, they\u2019ll probably slit your throat and then have another cup of tea\u2014we\u2019re dealing with terrorists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think one of the fundamental problems we\u2019ve ended up with here is that in their desire to get the bill through, the Government had to turn to the Green Party. I want to put it on the record again: the Green Party has long advocated for the abolition and demolition of our security services. Just let that sink in for a moment. They have argued consistently for the abolition of our security services, and they are the ones who are providing the votes to get this through. They have done it by effectively turning what should be a national security issue on its head, and that is that the national security and the defence of the Realm come second to the human rights of these criminals, these terrorists returning from overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo what are some of the problems? Well, first and foremost, this bill is weaker than many of our counterparts, including in the Commonwealth realms. So if we look at Canada, Australia, the UK, our equivalent legislation is much, much weaker. I\u2019ve pointed out before in the House, the age\u2014these control orders only apply if you\u2019re 18 years or over. Members in this House know very well that there are people who are actively engaged, or have been actively engaged, in terrorist activities who are younger than 18. These control orders will not apply to them. We know that these control orders can only last six years\u2014six years, as if somehow, magically, we\u2019re going to be able to turn every returning terrorist away from something that has completely defined their lives in six years. No other jurisdiction has that limit. I put forward a Supplementary Order Paper to say, look, let\u2019s just allow renewal if required. It\u2019s not as if someone comes back and they\u2019re going to have a control order on them for life. They should be able to renew that control order if required, and I have given a very practical and recent example where a supposedly de-radicalised jihadist in the UK, sadly, after six years, went out and killed two innocent British people only two weeks ago. He was a terrorist, he was known, he went through all the programmes, and after six years he went out and killed two innocent people. I do worry that we\u2019re allowing that gap or opportunity here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThere are basically\u2014well, excuse the parlance, but bugger all consequences for breaching the control orders: $2,000 fine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022476b518d490244bf972c19fe82d9c74f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Max. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eeee4d017aa4cd385130f94cd067351\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Or perhaps maximum, sorry\u2014Gerry Brownlee rightly reminds me that\u2019s the maximum. I\u2019ve yet to see of late a judge\u2014with no disrespect to the comity between the Parliament and the courts\u2014push the full extent of what Parliament puts forward. But if, for example, a terrorist doesn\u2019t turn up at the right time to meet their supervisor or doesn\u2019t come home exactly at the right time\u2014they haven\u2019t breached anything criminal so we can\u2019t catch them on that\u2014the maximum fine is $2,000 or, potentially, a year in prison. Again, this is not your little thief who steals a bike; this is a person who is a well-known terrorist to our security services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s the whole notion of informed consent, as if this was some sort of medical transaction. Again, it just makes a lot of the conditions put forward ludicrous. I\u2019m not going to repeat it at length because I think the Hon Gerry Brownlee well articulated it, but just about all the conditions that can be put forward on to the terrorists have to be with their informed consent. So to flip it around on its head, terrorists can say, \u201CNo, I don\u2019t really agree to that, sorry. Look, thanks for asking that I should stay at this address, and yeah, I know you want to slap on some sort of financial restrictions, but I don\u2019t really agree with that, sorry.\u201D So we\u2019ve got it all the wrong way round. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI am disappointed at where this legislation has ended up. It had been my hope, somewhat in vain, that through the select committee process\u2014as incredibly truncated as it was\u2014we might be able to, through some civilised conversation, come to a much tougher bill. We have failed to do that. I personally think that the suggestions that the Opposition have put forward are practical. They\u2019re not overly\u2014no, in fact, not even overly; they\u2019re not political at all. As I say: changing the age, ensuring that control orders can be renewed. I think this would make sense to the ordinary New Zealander. In fact, that\u2019s what they would want\u2014that\u2019s what they would want. But we haven\u2019t ended there, and as I said at the start, the real problem with this bill is if the Parliament thinks in passing it that this is now a done deal, that it\u2019s all tickety-boo, tidy, and we\u2019re going to have no problems, then I think we will find, and it will be unfortunate, through action or actions, that we\u2019ve been remiss in our duty\u2014or the Government, actually; it\u2019s not us. The Government has been remiss in its duty, they\u2019ve pulled the wool over their own eyes, and that sort of ignorance is very, very problematic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI just call on, again, Government members to really consider what they\u2019re doing here, which is fundamentally putting forward a flawed, very weak piece of legislation. If they are going to pass it, I encourage them within an hour to put forward an amendment bill and tighten this up, because, actually, the problems in this bill must be and need to be addressed. It\u2019s, again, a weak bill, and I cannot commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022695c134dabd4465488e5593200026af3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022695c134dabd4465488e5593200026af3\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We\u2014all of us\u2014would like to live in a world without violence and without hatred. That is terrorism. The Green Party has stood for non-violence and has stood for equality from the inception of our movement. Non-violence is one of our four charter principles, so we take seriously the responsibility to protect marginalised groups and us all against the threat of terror. This law, it has to be noticed, comes to this House in the context of New Zealand\u2019s worst act of terror in living memory, which happened on 15 March at the mosques in Christchurch. It comes to us in the context of the now eight-year bloody war being waged in Syria. It comes after decades of terrorism on the rise that includes the likes of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, but it also now increasingly includes the rise of white nationalist terrorism. We know that that has included, in terms of Syria\u2014and that\u2019s what the focus of the context of this bill has been\u2014New Zealanders travelling over to commit acts of terror and untold harm against communities over there who have asked us, together with the United Nations, to bring our own so-called \u201Cforeign terrorist fighters\u201D to justice, because they don\u2019t have the resource, and, frankly, they don\u2019t feel safe. So we do have a responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut this bill also comes to this House in the context of decades-long harmful, prejudice-filled rhetoric of the war on terror that has justified illegal wars in the Middle East and that has justified violence and degradation of refugee communities, of Middle Easterners, and of the Muslim community living in their own homelands and abroad. We know all too well the threat of that harm. We\u2019ve seen it from Guantanamo Bay to Trump\u2019s so-called Muslim ban, and then in Christchurch this year, so the Green Party takes seriously the responsibility to get this right. New Zealanders have put this House on notice that they will not stand for the kind of knee-jerk lawmaking or the kind of political rhetoric that places us at more risk, because it\u2019s based on fearmongering, not fairness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo, in that context, this bill proposes to introduce control orders that will apply to those over 18 years old, and these are civil orders. So we\u2019re not talking about anybody that has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be a terrorist\u2014nothing like that, and I remind the Opposition of that\u2014because that\u2019s why we need to be so careful. These orders would include surveillance, monitoring. They will include, in certain cases, limited access to firearms and limited access to electronic devices and online spaces that may place us at harm in those particular cases. It will also include, with consent\u2014and that\u2019s the only part that is requiring of consent\u2014mental health care and rehabilitation programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThese all include rights issues and breaches of rights that if we don\u2019t get right could have unintended harmful consequences, and it is no secret that the Green Party opposed this bill in its original Government form when it was introduced. We were loud about that and we welcomed public debate. Our opposition was primarily based on the definition of terror included in the original bill that we saw as potentially risking political activists and dissidents coming back from overseas, and the lack of due process\u2014in particular, around the use of secret classified information. I do want to, again, remind the Opposition that due process is where we determine whether someone is actually a risk to us, because we don\u2019t want to catch people who aren\u2019t. We want that process to be safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo that was the basis of our original opposition, and then, very quickly, it was made clear to us that that Government bill was not, in fact, what was at stake. The National Party, in a callous and irresponsible move, held the Government to ransom, introducing new Draconian measures that would include catching children under order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71b2085f69a425bae46a89704e55ff5\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m sure you heard the unparliamentary allegation that was made there. The National Party held no one to ransom. That\u2019s completely rubbish. If we had held them to ransom, then, quite clearly, we wouldn\u2019t be here discussing this bill now, with a load of tripe that we\u2019re getting from the Green Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281abf42cc4154d2b9ab65f98c81f4e15\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure that that\u2019s the most helpful way of ending a point of order. The member has taken offence at the phrase that Golriz Ghahraman used, and I\u2019d ask her to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e55168125ba4f7b8d0fd0de7a4c7243\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, it was meant as a figure of speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb524ff8ee541ee8eea4ebfe3448f28\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve asked you to withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c6322c4dda2457aa128a583d2322833\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I do withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c8bb05da314ca0aef4eacfb9d8a0db\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad81b24470074ea685098fd69db4d7da\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN\u003C/span\u003E: Their provisions, upon which their support was conditional\u2014after having said that they would support the Government\u2019s bill\u2014included holding children under order, included imposing indefinite orders, and included detention without due process. They would hold children under order for life. That was what was at stake, and it was made clear to us that it would not be the Government bill that would go ahead if we did not improve it; it was that bill. But, even then, we didn\u2019t blindly support the Government bill that we didn\u2019t want; in fact, we held tight to every single one of our bottom lines, and we got them. Then, we didn\u2019t stop fighting through the select committee process, and we got a suite of new changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThe Green Party, for the first time in our long history, was at the decision-making table on anti-terror law, and the changes we got were described by the Human Rights Commission\u2019s senior lawyer, John Hancock, as substantially improving the human rights compliance of this bill. That was the first lot of changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EOur first bottom line was changing the definition of terror to exclude anything that\u2019s coming from an overseas jurisdiction that might go beyond our own terrorism definition\u2014that might catch feminists, rainbow activists, and environmentalists, and we know that we have caught those people under dodgy anti-terror laws before\u2014and so that the definition wouldn\u2019t be imposed based on any convictions or deportations from jurisdictions that don\u2019t have our fair trial standards, and I\u2019m reminded of the Ahmed Zaoui case. Ahmed Zaoui was convicted in absentia. He didn\u2019t even know he was being tried and he wasn\u2019t there, and we\u2014our security agencies\u2014relied on those convictions. That wouldn\u2019t happen under this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWe know that our own security agencies are not without prejudice. We know that they looked more closely at the Muslim community and at M\u0101ori activists, in the past, rather than at white supremacists, so we knew that was important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EOur second bottom line\u2014and this was something that was very close to my heart, as a baby Amnesty International intern at the time of the Zaoui case\u2014is that secret, classified information will not be used in a blanket form whenever security agencies want to introduce it to hold anyone under control orders under this bill. So if secret information is to be introduced, a court has to first be satisfied that there is an actual security risk to a person or an actual national security risk in that case in relation to that information being disclosed to that particular person. That was not in place under the Zaoui case, and it would have set him free. But even then, under the process we\u2019ve introduced\u2014even then\u2014there will always be a defence lawyer who can see the information and can advocate for the person affected. That is the highest standard of due process anywhere in New Zealand law. It was recommended by our Law Commission, and it is the best practice recognised in international law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThen, in the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014and I do want to stop and I want to thank everyone who came to select committee. It was such a truncated process. It was so difficult to get those submissions in, and you still did it: the Law Society and the Chief Justice wrote to us, individuals came, Amnesty International wrote to us, the Human Rights Commission, the Privacy Commissioner. All of the constructive changes that were suggested to us, I fought for, and\u2014as Gerry Brownlee has so kindly acknowledged, and others in the Opposition\u2014we got so many of them passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI do want to focus, because two of the most important changes we got through in select committee were that in all cases, appropriate allocation of legal aid will be made for those who control orders may apply to. Also, a huge win\u2014especially given the truncated select committee process\u2014is that we will have mandatory, independent review of this law in two years\u2019 time, including a review of whether or not the law itself is at all necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we are very pleased that we stopped the National Party Draconian changes. We are very pleased that we\u2019ve protected children from having their rights breached. We are very happy to have protected New Zealand from going down the route of Guantanamo Bay\u2014of arresting people for the crime of having travelled to places like the Middle East. Lawmaking is not a game by which politicians can make themselves look tough on crime or terror. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo, again, I want to thank everyone who came, who was loud, who submitted, who talked about human rights, who talked about justice, and who held us to account, because the improvements that we got to this bill\u2014although we must always be careful when we\u2019re talking about civil orders in this context\u2014have made it better. They have made it fairer and they have upheld the rule of law in New Zealand, so we can be proud, at least, of that. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6ccdae09fb491f8496446d0463480d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6ccdae09fb491f8496446d0463480d\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to comment in starting out on my contribution that when emotive words like \u201CGuantanamo\u201D and \u201Cchildren\u201D are used in a debate such as this, it is quite emotion-stirring. But I think the word \u201Cchildren\u201D as used by the member Golriz Ghahraman seems to apply to my children or anyone\u2019s children in this House, but not to radicalised youth, which is what we are talking about in this terrorism suppression bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe object of both sides\u2014of everyone in this House\u2014is to protect New Zealanders, and that is the starting point of all of this debate. Whatever has happened in the past in the negotiations or the process, the National Party only seeks to make a bill\u2014this bill, once it is passed, and it will pass\u2014stronger. There are points that, without doubt, a reasonable mind would agree that there are portions that need to be strengthened, particularly, again, starting with the age of terrorists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ERadicalised youth are all over the world, and it is common knowledge. We\u2019re not talking about children; we are talking about radicalised youth. They may be younger than 18 years old, hence the proposal of National to include children aged 14 to 18. But in that context, again, it is quite possible that once a youth or a person is radicalised, the possibility of rehabilitation is indeed unlikely or very small, hence the proposal of National for control orders to be renewed over time. Recognising that young people may be subject to control orders, National also proposed that if there are guardians of the young person, they be immediately notified, and that the control order only be allowed to last for six months, and be renewed, if necessary, and justified through the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENational also wanted control orders to be able to be renewed beyond the six-year limit\u2014of course, reviewed every two years and justified as necessary\u2014and if a control order is to expire, National proposed that the registrar of the High Court ensures that the Police Commissioner is notified at least two months before the expiry of an expiring control order. This, obviously, is just aimed at allowing for the control order to be renewed by application\u2014again, requiring justification each time, so it can be unjustified and stopped at any point in that renewal process. Again, it has to be justified as necessary. But what we have been asking for, only, is the opportunity for these to be extended by under six years, as evidenced by recent occurrences around the world where people have been under a control order or under detention for over six years and have come out and have caused harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EDetention on arrival: yes, the bill presumes that the person who arrives who has been engaged in activities related to terrorism will have been identified and known. However, it is quite impossible\u2014and it\u2019s actually reasonable to assume that no one country in the world will be able to identify every single person who has been out there and is returning and may cause harm. So the four-hour detention period for when a person may have presented as appearing to be a threat\u2014a longer period than that should be allowed so that control orders can be applied for again, as necessary, and, again, subject to justification that these be issued and that that person be put into that process of surveillance and it be ensured that he will not cause harm. Again, all of these proposed amendments by National have been voted down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EFor me as a member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, and having sat through the submissions, I just believe in going through the process\u2014that these are proposed amendments that can only strengthen the bill, and not for any other reason. For this reason, I can stand and say that the National Party cannot support the bill because of these points that have not been able to be strengthened. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00227bf36363057c4a3fa5415388081661ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bf36363057c4a3fa5415388081661ee\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220b5c3497d86e45cba1f4ac8e530ba63c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b5c3497d86e45cba1f4ac8e530ba63c\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. What we have just heard sums it up. The previous National Party speaker, Paulo Garcia, essentially said that their proposed amendments would have strengthened the bill, and because they couldn\u2019t get them across the line, they\u2019re not going to vote for it. How bad is that? They could have voted for this bill, the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill, and expressed how they wanted to improve it, just like they did with the zero carbon bill\u2014that wasn\u2019t what they wanted, but they still voted for it because they wanted to send a message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, what we heard just now is that if the amendments got across the line, they would have voted for it. But because they didn\u2019t, they didn\u2019t vote for it. Where I come from, that\u2019s called packing a sad. I think if members of the public wish to go and listen to Mark Mitchell\u2019s speech right at the start that outlined the National Party\u2019s position, they would see 10 minutes of whingeing and 10 minutes of packing a sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI am very happy to stand and speak in favour of this bill. It is a rational and moderate approach to this that finds that balance, and I commend the Minister for leading this through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00221d5ce5ea4d9045439c6ccc1f58640f0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d5ce5ea4d9045439c6ccc1f58640f0c\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I speak, as others have done on this side, on the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. I\u2019m cognisant of the clear need that has been established for legislation of some kind to meet a threat from overseas\u2014by definition, that\u2019s what we are looking at in this proposed legislation. In particular, I note its purpose: among other things, to protect the public from terrorism. Of course this is a worthwhile aim, the security of the Realm being among the highest good that any Government\u2014or Parliament, too, for that matter\u2014can concern itself with. So on that much, at least, there is no disagreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EHowever, as to whether the bill will meet its intended purpose in the committee of the whole House stage, there was much detailed discussion about the extent to which we could fairly say that that was the case, sufficient to outweigh the consequence that we would potentially engender a false sense of security\u2014to say, \u201CWell, we\u2019ve got a piece of legislation that will do the things that we want to do. Therefore, we need to consider the matter no further.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA number of these were traversed pretty well at the committee of the whole House stage. I\u2019ll just touch briefly on three that sort of caught my eye as being particularly key. One is the time frame of retention at the border. Just four hours is allowed under the legislation as it was introduced and remains now at this point. Four hours is not very long. Probably BJ Watling will score a century against Australia in the test match later today within that period of time, for example, and Kane Williamson will score a double hundred. But actually, more significantly, in terms of the legislation, that\u2019s just about the time it takes to get from Auckland Airport to the High Court and back. So to be able to think about a process where we need to have the paperwork prepared and the necessary actions taken within that time frame, at the risk of losing the person into society, perhaps not to be found again until such time as something terrible has happened\u2014that\u2019s a real risk that the Parliament should not be contemplating taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe next point was in relation to the age of the relevant person. I made a case at the committee of the whole House stage that if a person is old enough to engage in terrorism-related activities, as defined, including that they pose a credible threat, then they\u2019re old enough to be considered as needing to be protected\u2014or, rather, New Zealanders need to be protected against such activities by the bill. I further suggested that it could be that a person\u2019s age could be taken into account, so if they were younger than 18, then they could be treated in a way that\u2019s appropriate to their age, but not to be excluded from the ambit of the bill entirely. As with other proposals that were made on this side of the House in the committee of the whole House stage, that was not accepted or taken up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA brief note on the process versus the substance: we felt on this side of the House that the process being rather rushed at select committee has probably been a contributor to the fact that the substance of the bill, the final result, is such that we don\u2019t think it can be supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just add a further note, just in response to some of the discussion, the debate, that\u2019s gone back and forth across the House this afternoon in relation to the word \u201Cchildren\u201D. It\u2019s a very emotive concept, of course, that of the child. It implies a certain innocence as well as, of course, being a matter, in strict legal terms, of one\u2019s birth certificate. I think the innocence that\u2019s implied by the notion of a child is to be understood in the context of a person who, if the bill were to apply to them, would need to have been proven or at least be a credible threat of being proven to pose a danger to New Zealanders. So I think if we consider the starting point of the bill being to protect New Zealanders against terrorism, then I think that that\u2019s something we should consider in a pretty holistic\u2014and that is to say a pretty broad\u2014way, as opposed to merely saying that because someone is perhaps only 17 years and 364 days old, they are not a worthy subject of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWith that, I conclude, except just to note, as others have done so, that we feel that this legislation falls short of its intended mark, and so we cannot support its passage at this stage, at this, the third and final reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00224269d8aa8e7a433daac6b05c299de1ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224269d8aa8e7a433daac6b05c299de1ca\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Speaker. Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill, third reading\u2014succinct and to the point. The Government has acted where the Opposition has failed to. I acknowledge the Minister of Justice for acting and the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and members of the coalition for working well on this legislation, which does what it says it will do to protect the public from terrorism, to prevent engagement in terrorism-related activities, and to support the relevant person\u2019s reintegration into New Zealand and/or rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ETerrorism is a threat that we take seriously, but we will not remove human rights, for if we do that, we descend into chaos. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022c251ef01d1ad4fc68e1afc98fb97effd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c251ef01d1ad4fc68e1afc98fb97effd\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West): \u003C/span\u003EI think that assertion by the Hon Clare Curran in her speech, which I think was about 35 seconds, on a security measure, highlighted the totally arrogant and unacceptable nature of the Government\u2019s approach to this bill, because to suggest that the Labour Party has been taking the matter seriously and has acted where the National Party has failed to do so ignores history and flies in the face of the situation that we are dealing with in this particular measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThere is a long history in this country of bipartisan work on security matters. [Interruption] And here they go; the chorus from the other side has started again. Here they go again. Nobody in the National Party is in the least bit inclined to leave New Zealanders exposed. The whole point of our opposition to this bill is that there is such a great hole in it\u2014that is precisely what the Government is doing. I think it is deeply disappointing that the current Government has decided not to negotiate in good faith with the Opposition, because our security legislation should be enduring. Our security legislation should reflect the overwhelming will of the Parliament, representing the concerns of the vast majority of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that there are many fine people who have been through this House in years gone by who have worked diligently and respectfully with their opposite numbers in order to achieve that. While I can accept the fact that the Minister of Justice has in this case tried to respond to a specific threat\u2014and that\u2019s as he should do\u2014he has, however, in the end, compromised to the point where he has undermined his own bill, and that\u2019s the real problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWhen I spoke in the House last night in the committee stage, I confessed that I was pretty angry, and it was partly because I followed immediately a very angry contribution from the Minister, who at that stage was in the chair. He made comments that I thought were both outrageous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4d18159266458d9aac78209d57209a\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s normal\u2014that\u2019s normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228430c3377cd74ebb9a95ab1c49f6cc7b\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It is fairly normal, Mr Guy\u2014you\u2019re quite right\u2014but this is a serious matter. I felt that he had made comments that were both outrageous and fatuous, and I wanted to correct the record, because my colleagues have made clear that it\u2019s not possible for me to come up with a whole lot of fresh material as the last Opposition speaker in the third reading of a debate. If members of the Parliament and the public who are listening aren\u2019t aware of the reasons for National\u2019s opposition by now, then I would be very surprised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut the point that I was making, and I hope that I can make again today in a more concerned tone rather than an angry one, is that National was keen to put forward some recommendations that we didn\u2019t think were controversial. We certainly didn\u2019t think that traditional Labour-National cooperation on this matter would have found those suggestions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3de9f33455a4dfa826dfa5953679c00\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Prudent suggestions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daacde27f5cd439095020565cec4bad6\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014difficult to accommodate. As Mr van de Molen is saying, they were prudent, and we did hope that the Government would sit down with us and say, OK, let\u2019s look at the things, because Parliament is often required to compromise, and in particular on challenging issues, we work well where we can sit down, try to understand each other\u2019s point of view, and work from there. That\u2019s what the Minister didn\u2019t do\u2014that is what the Minister didn\u2019t do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d23b5aea0a184ea495a442dc9c1bdfba\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve stuffed it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a0b2c7b88c748ed9887a7c7df751753\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: And here he is making an offensive remark instead of acknowledging that his responsibility as the Minister in charge of this bill was to negotiate in good faith. Yes, he might well have said that there are certain things that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b6c4ea35e34122876a5c2ed23394b5\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Takes two to tango\u2014takes two to tango.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6513e14af8844e89901ce60729a6a64\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Opposition\u2014he\u2019s shouting over the top of me. He\u2019s had his speech. He\u2019s had his speech, but he shouts over the top of me. He should have been prepared to say there are certain things that we probably will not be able to reach agreement on, but there are other things where we\u2019ll accommodate the Opposition. He didn\u2019t accommodate any of them. That\u2019s the key thing here. There is nothing significant that the National Party put forward that he was willing to accommodate, and I am very disturbed by the Minister\u2019s approach. I\u2019m very disturbed that his colleagues have supported him, because, as I say, it is important that this legislation should be enduring, and in particular it is important that this legislation should be fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe know that there are New Zealanders based overseas who have been radicalised, who have been in very disturbing situations. Several of my colleagues have mentioned a number of different instances, and there will be others in the future. We don\u2019t know what they are now. We can\u2019t imagine who they are or where they are. We simply know that it is in the nature of modern security threats that there are people from like-minded countries with which we have close relationships, and other countries with which we don\u2019t have such a strong relationship, where they have people who mean to do ill to other people. Every terrorist, regardless of the motivation behind their terrorism, is a threat to humanity and is a group that we should be looking to do everything we can to contain. In particular, if they threaten New Zealanders on our shores, we have a responsibility, not just as the Government of the day but as parliamentarians, to do everything we can to protect our citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what the National Party has always stood for. That\u2019s why I said last night that the National Party has the proudest record of any party in this Parliament in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fb6d43c450e493eb8220600011e4924\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224883cedf72fb4913bf02333a22b0632c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not rubbish, Mr Little. Mr Little knows that this is true. I was sitting behind the Prime Minister, where the senior Government whip is now, when I was in that seat as I listened to a debate on this very type of issue, and to suggest that our Government did nothing flies in the face of that particular debate, which that member should remember better than any other\u2014he should remember it better than any other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe defence of the Realm is the core responsibility of the New Zealand Government and, by extension, the Parliament. In the current regime, the sort of security threats that we\u2019ve seen in recent times, terrorism has often been the core focus of our military\u2014and I want to say it\u2019s good to see the Minister of Defence in the House. How proud I am of New Zealand\u2019s military.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe are extraordinarily well served, both at home and abroad, by all the brave men and women who serve in the New Zealand military force, and they face very real challenges and they deserve our absolute backing, our gratitude, and the resources to do the job. This bill doesn\u2019t give them all the resources they need to do the job. This bill puts at risk some of those very people who they are so dedicated to try to defend and protect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EOur proposed changes that we put forward would have improved this bill, and that\u2019s what we went to negotiate with the Government over. We tried again during the committee stage to put forward further proposals; the Government said, as they have done in recent times, \u201CWe know best. We\u2019re not interested in dealing with the Opposition.\u201D Well, that\u2019s not the good faith that I would expect of any party in this Parliament on an issue of such importance. They ultimately said, \u201COK, we\u2019ll go to the Greens.\u201D, and the Greens, then, were able to negotiate all sorts of things that weakened this bill, and that, I think, is deeply disturbing. I understand the Greens\u2019 point of view but I fundamentally disagree with it, and I think that Parliament should have disagreed with it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I close by echoing the words of my colleagues who have spoken before. This bill isn\u2019t fit for purpose. This bill will not achieve its objective. It is deeply disappointing that we can\u2019t support the measure, but we can\u2019t support it because of those fundamental failings. We will, at some stage in the future, as a Parliament, have to fix it. It won\u2019t be this Parliament, obviously, but a future Parliament will be charged with having to fix it, and that is disappointing, and I can only pray that as a nation we will not pay a very heavy price in the meantime before we\u2019re able to rectify it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6f5c1a327e445b791f7eda873fa4abc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6f5c1a327e445b791f7eda873fa4abc\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I can only admire that previous speaker\u2019s ability to feign indignation and to feign sincerity, because I know, as anyone sitting over there knows, this is good legislation. This is legislation that has to go through. It\u2019s not the first time New Zealanders have gone and fought overseas. The Spanish Civil War\u2014many New Zealanders went there, but the difference is that when they came back they didn\u2019t bring a philosophy back that was dangerous to this country. The modern fighter who goes to fight in the places we\u2019re talking about\u2014the Middle East\u2014brings back a philosophy that is dangerous to this country. It needs to be dealt with. They need to be monitored. We need the ability to deal with them. This Government has put together legislation which will enable us to deal with it, and I have no hesitation in recommending this very good legislation, this very effective legislation, this well-thought-out legislation\u2014and, most importantly, this legislation will allow us to address the changing, evolving world of law and order, the changing, evolving world of terrorism. So I have no hesitation in recommending this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221b3b7d2742184a9185b3d7e3bd02789e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237ae1ab353a640e2acacd9363ce4ad82\u0022\u003EMaritime Transport (Offshore Installations) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcb9a77a1f5640119907f8ea8905884b\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022187dad2c12f14b19b6e00ff9e6b2201f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022187dad2c12f14b19b6e00ff9e6b2201f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Transport: I move, That the Maritime Transport (Offshore Installations) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s my pleasure to stand on behalf of the Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter to speak to this third reading of the Maritime Transport (Offshore Installations) Amendment Bill. I want to take the opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed to the development of the bill in its passage through the House, including the officials in the Ministry of Transport, of course the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, and all of the submitters who have helped us refine the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Maritime Transport Act basically operates a user-pays, or, I should say, polluter-pays, regime. In simple terms, this means that the owner of offshore installations like those at the Maui and Pohokura oil and gas fields have an unlimited liability for the costs of any pollution damage from their installation. So if something goes wrong, particularly with deep-sea installation, it can go really wrong, and the consequences can be catastrophic for New Zealand\u2019s marine environment. That\u2019s why the Government has taken this issue so seriously. The owner\u2019s liability in this sort of situation is extensive. It includes the costs of any clean-up and, importantly, reinstatement and the impairment of damages to the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe main objective of this bill is to clarify and strengthen the requirements that are placed on the owners of offshore oil and gas installations to hold insurance or equivalent cover for their liabilities in the event of an oil spill. There\u2019s not much point in having that liability if companies are not required to hold insurance to the level that would allow them to properly respond to the damage and the consequences of a spill in an offshore installation. This bill doesn\u2019t change the legal situation at all, regarding the owner\u2019s liability. However, what it does do is it makes a trade-off between the current regime, which requires third-party assurance for all pollution risks but subject to what we believe is a totally inadequate amount of around $27 million, and the regime proposed in this bill and the associated rules, which will require third-party assurance for the key risks and costs to a level that can be expected to cover those risks up to $1.2 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe key risks and costs covered will include costs arising from pollution damage, the costs of clean-up, and the costs of reinstatement arising from an out-of-control well. If we are going to continue to allow oil and gas exploration under the current permits, and to continue to extract oil and gas from fields like Maui and Pohokura, we owe it to New Zealanders now and in the future to ensure that we require the best cover that we can get. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002273b1808ce7c745489827e3f41621246c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b1808ce7c745489827e3f41621246c\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on this third reading of the Maritime Transport (Offshore Installations) Amendment Bill. Like the previous speaker, the Hon Phil Twyford, we too, on this side of the House, take this very seriously. In fact, we did a tremendous amount of work preparing for this bill before the last election. Of course, the election came along and then the responsibility for continuing that work fell to the Government. Thank you for the work that they have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECan I say, the people of Taranaki, who have a number of these offshore installations surrounding them in our vicinity, and also particularly the sector itself, take this to be a very serious matter, that not only do we have agreement and unlimited liability to these companies but we have financial assurance, or we have a financial security to ensure that that which they are liable for they also have a provision to meet those costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo we certainly do support not only world\u2019s best practice in terms of any exploration that happens offshore, but we also ensure that in our jurisdiction they do carry the financial ability to put right anything that does occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EThe Minister in charge of the bill, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, presented to the House Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 417 yesterday, and we had a look at that. It was a last-minute SOP, and it would allow rules to cancel certificates of insurance before their expiry. This SOP is to allow the Government to require summer 2019-2020 drilling to comply with the new financial assurance rules. Though it does seem poor for the Crown to override its existing insurance certificates rather than let them run their course, the sector has expected for some time that the summer drilling programme would require compliance with the new regime. So there is an acceptance of that and a preparedness for it. And, even though the potentiality of Government regulation and rules cutting across what were previously accepted practices and limits, we do note that there is sensitivity around this particular area, and we were happy to vote for that SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo the regime\u2019s primary focus, of course, is to prevent hazards and discharges from occurring. New Zealand does have very strong regimes in that regard. It ensures that permit holders have sufficient plans and resources in place to decrease the likelihood of any adverse event. The likelihood of a major marine oil spill is very low. We always are shown examples of what happened. Of course, many, many years ago in the gulf in the USA\u2014of course, that\u2019s a completely different pressure system than New Zealand has; completely different environmental environments and seascapes. However, it is very important that we have in place the right regime and all the different factors and enablements to ensure that if anything did happen, we could respond to face those issues and also protect the interests of third parties as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo we are supportive of this bill. We are supportive of the SOP. We believe that this will once again enable us to have world\u2019s best practice in the exploration programme and regime that New Zealand supports. Thank you for the Minister\u2019s comments that \u201CIf we were to continue to support exploration in those permitted areas\u201D. Of course, I would remind him that the Government promised to protect existing permits. So it\u2019s not a question that he should ask; it is something that he should state: that that is the regime in which the sector operates under under the promise of protection of this Government to protect those permits. I\u2019m very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b63e675a131e4de79774b8da491e15ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b63e675a131e4de79774b8da491e15ec\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. It is a privilege to stand here and make a contribution in the third reading of the Maritime Transport (Offshore Installations) Amendment Bill. Currently, operators are only required to hold insurance worth $27 million. This level of coverage is far too low to cover the clean-up and compensation cost of significant oil spills. As we\u2019ve seen in the Rena oil spill, for example, it cost the taxpayer $47 million to clean up. So this will rectify that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EBefore I sit down, it\u2019s my sister\u2019s birthday today. So I\u2019d just like to wish Evanjica Kanongata\u2019a a happy birthday, and that\u2019s my gift. Ka kite. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e66d021a03734637ab6f9beed4b9eaf5\u0022\u003ECredit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ef61e715ca340cb9e251dc00fbd0e61\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1a9e56fd19e46a3bc5294602a305c83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1a9e56fd19e46a3bc5294602a305c83\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation that amends the law around the provision of credit in New Zealand. Credit is important to almost every New Zealander in some way and at some point in their life. However, when provided irresponsibly, credit can quickly result in debt spirals and hardship. Under current credit laws, consumers are sadly still experiencing harm from predatory lending practices and credit terms, and this disproportionately harms our most vulnerable consumers. As a result, the Government introduced this bill to better protect New Zealanders from these harms. This bill has been one of my key priorities in my commerce and consumer affairs portfolio, and I\u2019m confident that the changes in this bill will help to protect and improve the wellbeing of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a number of changes which will make significant improvements to lending practices. Not only does the bill cap interest and fees on high-cost loans to 100 percent of the principal but it will also cap the rate of charge for interest and fees. Both of these caps will go a long way to limiting the harm that irresponsible high-cost lending causes in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe changes will also improve the implementation and enforceability of rules around responsible lending by allowing for clear minimum standards to be set and strengthening the penalties for breaches. For example, lenders will be required to keep records that demonstrate they have made inquiries to ensure their loans are affordable and suitable, and, where these requirements are breached, lenders can be subject to tough financial penalties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill also raises the bar for becoming a lender by ensuring that persons at the top levels of creditor companies and mobile traders meet requirements for being a fit and proper person. This will reduce the number of unscrupulous individuals who are operating in lending businesses in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESpeaking of mobile traders, the bill will now treat mobile traders as creditors under the consumer credit contracts and require them to comply with the Act. This means that they must ensure that the products and the services that they provide are affordable and appropriate and that the right information is disclosed to the purchaser and borrower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill improves transparency and access to redress during debt collection. It will make the debt collection process more transparent from the start, as well as giving debtors the key information that they need so they can ask for help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAt the second reading of the bill, I welcomed the changes from the Finance and Expenditure Committee. The most significant of these is the decision to include the Government\u2019s proposed rate cap on interest and fees. I proposed this change after I heard the overwhelming number of submissions to the Finance and Expenditure Committee from people who work on the front line with vulnerable borrowers and see the everyday harms and irresponsible high-cost lending damage that can be caused. These submitters said that a rate cap was a critical change that could be made to the law to protect consumers, and the rate cap of 0.8 percent per day will complement and strengthen the total cost of credit cap that\u2019s already in the bill since its introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some concern about this rate cap, in that it will serve as a target for lenders. However, some lenders currently have interest rates over twice as high as the proposed rate cap. Given the significance of this change, it will be important to review the rate cap and the total cost of credit cap after they have been in place for three years, which is included in the bill. This will allow us to evaluate how well the current cap level is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EBefore I finish up, I\u2019d like to thank all those people who have contributed to the bill. This includes those parties that made submissions to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and the members that considered the bill on that committee and also the many officials who have provided advice. I think through this bill we will be helping to contribute to improving the wellbeing to thousands of New Zealanders who have experience of problem debt, and I truly believe that as a result of the changes that we are making here today, fewer New Zealanders will be given loans that cause or deepen hardship. Problem debt is the source of ongoing mental, emotional, and financial stress for families and does contribute to lasting health problems, and reducing the highest interest rates and irresponsible lending is necessary to support public health and will have significant overall benefits to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ECan I also thank those who submitted to the select committee for the passion for their work\u2014[Andrew Bayly waves]\u2014and you too, Mr Bayly\u2014as I do believe their passion for this subject made meaningful changes at that stage. I\u2019m very proud to commend this bill to the House for the third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u002253882ee814b44edc9b5218ab12af5eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253882ee814b44edc9b5218ab12af5eb9\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on this, the third reading of the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill. When this bill was introduced into the House, we held a view that there were a number of things that it was doing that were positive\u2014things such as further regulation of mobile traders, fit and proper person tests\u2014and while we generally have issues with creating new regulations, we did agree that in this instance a regulation-making power to allow the Government or the Minister in the future to determine that certain payment arrangements should be deemed to be credit contracts for the purposes of the legislation, we thought, was a very, very good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe were a little sceptical, not on the idea of a total cost of credit cap but about just what it might mean in terms of the availability of credit for those who genuinely need it. Let\u2019s be fair, I mean, people find themselves in enormous difficulty in some occasions, but everyone enters into their first loan, at least, under these high-cost lenders on the basis of need. It\u2019s not purely a discretionary desire. So we were a little bit mindful that there was potential that a regime that was too hard or too harsh might actually create other harms for people\u2014fix some but exacerbate others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe were also concerned at the change to the obligations on lenders, not just high-cost lenders, about establishing the bona fides of affordability for borrowers. It\u2019s fair to say that that one at least was handled very well by officials in the select committee stage, and we are comfortable with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ELikewise, looking into the heart of the discussion document that led up to the introduction of the bill, and then later confirmed in discussions with officials, it really looked like they had structured the total interest cap in a manner that wasn\u2019t meant to knock out large swathes of commercially available high-cost lending products today. It was instead more focused on not allowing those things to expand or get worse. So we had reached a degree of comfort in that area as well, although we still have lingering concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThere will be a change to availability of credit for people in need under this bill when it is passed, and that will force some people into other areas of harm. It may not be black market lending, but one thing\u2014for instance, it was postulated by officials that in the UK, up to 30 percent of people unable now to get a high-cost loan will borrow from family or friends as well. But when pressed on that, officials accepted that in most circumstances, those families or friends that they seek to borrow from will be in very similar circumstances to the person who\u2019s already in financial trouble. So there is a real risk that that simply spreads a bit of misery around rather than genuinely solving a problem. But for all of that, we had determined that the changes weren\u2019t a great evil, and we were comfortable enough to support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut then out of the blue, of course, came this daily interest rate cap, which came out without official advice. The officials weren\u2019t even asked to give advice on the merits of it. Before the bill\u2019s introduction, they had been asked and had given advice that it was a bad idea and that the consequences of it couldn\u2019t be accurately predicted. Their advice at the time, that the Minister accepted at the time, was don\u2019t do it. Then, in the w-e-a-k of delivery, out of the blue on Tuesday, all of a sudden: a daily interest rate, which the Minister hadn\u2019t bothered talking to officials about. This will exacerbate this issue about will this constrain availability of credit to those who actually need it, and what will that then lead to in terms of their borrowing habits and the financial straits they may find themselves in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EFor that, though\u2014for all of that\u2014the question for us then was: if we have an issue, particularly with this daily interest rate cap and the manner in which it was introduced, is that issue sufficiently serious that we would refuse to support the bill? Although the reservations persist and are real, with the review in three years, we think there are sufficient grounds that if it doesn\u2019t work well, it can be removed. So we will continue to support this bill through to its conclusion in this, the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002273b0ea26c22a40df8c96fa2639b4ebbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b0ea26c22a40df8c96fa2639b4ebbc\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It heartens me to hear the words from Mr Hudson, who has spoken just now, that, on balance, the Opposition will support this bill. I hear the concerns of the Opposition. Nevertheless, the interest rate cap was introduced for good reason. It was introduced not out of the blue but because so many of the people working in this sector, in the financial advisers sector, came to us and said, \u201CGood work, everyone, good work\u2014but actually, we need a bit more in this space. We need an interest rate cap.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, people who came to us wanted straight out 50 percent cap, a very flat cap on interest rates. In the end, we settled on a slightly different model, a cap of 0.8 percent per day. This is based on what is happening in the United Kingdom, so it hasn\u2019t just come out of the blue, as though it was dreamed up de novo. It is actually a model that is working elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAs Mr Hudson has said, for further reassurance, there is a review of the workings of this Act scheduled for three years\u2019 time. Should there be problems with people being unable to obtain finance, should there be problems with people perhaps seeking black market finance or getting into worse trouble, then that should come to light in the review and changes can be made as necessary. So, on the whole, this is good legislation and it came through what I thought was a good, robust select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t wish to speak for long, but I wish to quote some amazing women who came to present to us, some radical nuns from Gisborne. Sisters Carmel, Adrienne, and Marie talked to us about debt and what it did to people\u2019s lives. In their written submission, they concluded with a quote that \u201CDebt is the Slavery of the Free\u201D. From there, they said people who get into horrendous debt are, in effect, enslaved. They are no longer free; they cannot order their lives as they will. Their daily behaviour is threatened by the spectre of outrageous debt hanging over them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, of course, we all need debt to smooth the way from time to time, and it\u2019s typically used for mortgages and the like. Debt can be a very effective tool, but it can also enslave us. This bill seeks to strike the balance between debt as a tool and debt that enslaves us. I think we\u2019ve struck the right balance and I am proud to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u00229b145b9816f4446985cc32939119a985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b145b9816f4446985cc32939119a985\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise a little bit earlier than I was anticipating, to speak on this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226955c701ee64d57a688d0eebaed0f12\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: You came well equipped with your devices, Gareth. That\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292fa466ef20d4900b5c631fa98b14611\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Well equipped with my devices, the Minister says. Look, there are many bills that this House passes in the course of a week or a month or a year. Many of them are technical, many of them are fixing regulations, some are historic\u2014I\u2019m thinking of things like marriage equality\u2014and some legislation you can make a real difference for real New Zealanders\u2019 lives. I think this is in that category.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis legislation, this great legislation, will make a real difference to people. All of us are familiar with the stories of lives and families torn apart by the cost of high-interest borrowing. We\u2019ve heard of cases of 600 percent annual interest rates. We\u2019ve heard of cases of 800 percent interest rates. We\u2019ve heard cases of 2,000 percent annualised interest rates that have been ripping apart New Zealand families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, in the last speech, I talked about how this is a relatively modern phenomenon. The Speaker actually sent me a note saying this has always happened in New Zealand, and that\u2019s true. But the modern form of pay-day lending is a relatively modern thing, only this century, and it\u2019s had a huge impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, what this legislation is going to do is cap the total cost of borrowing and cap interest rates for these loans. What we know is there is $120 million being sucked out of some of our poorest and most vulnerable communities by lenders, many of which I\u2019d categorise as predatory, which are charging such incredibly high interest rates, I think taking advantage of information asymmetries where they have more information about it. It\u2019s a real cost coming out of New Zealand families. So what this legislation is doing is capping the interest for these high-cost loans at 0.8 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s wonderful that the select committee and the Government have been able to amend this legislation in the committee. The total cost of borrowing was a good first step. However, what the expert advice we received\u2014and at this point I\u2019d like to acknowledge the work of the FinCap organisation of financial advisers, the Salvation Army, the Council of Trade Unions, individual experts such as Andrew Shand, who\u2019s been working on this issue for many years. What they said is that if you only cap the total cost of borrowing, what you\u2019re going to see is these lenders further taking advantage by rolling over multiple loans, essentially seeing an incredibly high interest rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhat this legislation is doing is moving New Zealand into line with literally dozens and dozens of other jurisdictions, including the countries that we most identify with\u2014from Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, the United States\u2014where they\u2019ve capped interest rates. So I think it\u2019s incredibly great that the Government has taken this step. It\u2019s something the Green Party was insisting on right from the get-go. From the earliest days of this legislation we thought that interest rates had to be capped. Obviously, this was something we\u2019d voted for previously when Carol Beaumont, a former member who\u2019s departed this House, introduced legislation to enact many years before. It\u2019s something where we\u2019ve drafted a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP). It\u2019s wonderful that we weren\u2019t needing an SOP, because the committee has taken this strong step to include interest rate caps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, we still wonder if the interest rate cap set upon is too high. This will be reviewed. We do note there will be a review in the future. We also think the next step, once we pass this historic legislation where New Zealand\u2019s joining a host of other countries by capping the total cost and interest rates, is actually more practical steps that this Government or future Governments can take to support New Zealand families facing high-cost borrowing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EWhy do people have to go out to the market with such high interest rates for such short-term borrowing costs? Is there a role that the Government could take to support those families? Obviously, supporting through financial literacy packages, support for financial planning advice, but is there another step the Government could take in the future to support these families? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t take long, except to reiterate the Green Party\u2019s strong support for this legislation. The fact is that this will make a tangible difference for people who find themselves, in many cases through no fault of their own, facing, I think, usurious interest rates that have had such a catastrophic impact. This is positive legislation. Look, if this is the legislation we\u2019re passing this week, it\u2019s a wonderful highlight for which to finish this week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the Minister, Kris Faafoi. He\u2019s been wonderful to work with. He\u2019s had an open door. He\u2019s taken a very considered, very interested approach to this legislation. I\u2019d like to thank the National Party as well for their support tonight. This is a good example of Parliament at its best, and the Green Party wholeheartedly supports it. Kia ora koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002298ad1e6669f84fa6a59e5a70a3f332e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298ad1e6669f84fa6a59e5a70a3f332e6\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support this Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill, and I just would endorse the words of the previous contribution of Gareth Hughes. This will make a difference for actually some of our poorest and most vulnerable New Zealanders who, maybe through no fault of their own or actually in some cases just through a lack of financial literacy, get themselves into some of these high interest-bearing loans at exorbitant rates\u2014up to 800 percent at times. So putting this 0.8 percent per day cap and, I think importantly, a total of 100 percent of the original principal is a really good move. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not to say that these loans aren\u2019t in some cases necessary and a part of the lending ecosystem. There are times when people are caught a bit short, and we don\u2019t want to stifle the ability of that part of the lending spectrum to be taken out. But we do want to make sure that it is fair and equitable. And I think we\u2019ve seen any amount of examples of people getting taken for a ride and usury interest rates and getting into a debt spiral that just simply is impossible to get out of and the wider social consequences that come with that. So anything that can address that\u2014and Minister Faafoi is to be commended for bringing this to the House and getting it through, and bringing us up to speed with where so many of the other jurisdictions that we would consider our comparators are already at and have been for a long time in some cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t draw this out any longer, except to reiterate New Zealand First\u2019s strong support for this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee9dd0bf00bc412daae1246fb0e6a8d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee9dd0bf00bc412daae1246fb0e6a8d6\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I had the pleasure of sitting on the select committee. We heard some terrible stories. It was summed up by one submitter who said, \u201CNo one can afford their last loan.\u201D This legislation is about ensuring that that last loan that does drag people into that downward spiral, when all the indicators would say they should never get it, doesn\u2019t occur. So this is good legislation. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd5b3555dd1344c0a6f30ef5e3955e1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd5b3555dd1344c0a6f30ef5e3955e1e\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E As you walk down the street in South Dunedin, there are a range of lending organisations which charge high rates, interest rates. If you drive around in the suburbs in some of the hill suburbs in Dunedin at certain times of the week, you\u2019ll see the pay-day loan buses driving around. They\u2019re all a reminder of the exploitative practices that happen in our country still, that exploit people on low incomes who find that they get into these debt traps. And despite several attempts\u2014and thank you to Gareth Hughes for outlining some of the previous attempts\u2014to change the legislation in this space, we still hadn\u2019t got it right. So I commend the work that Kris Faafoi has done on this in particular, to introduce an interest rate cap of 0.8 percent a day and the cost of credit cap on high-cost loans to 100 percent of the original loan, which means that one can never be charged more than 100 percent on any additional fees or charges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EWhen I sat on the Commerce Committee several years ago, the previous Government never went that far and, thankfully, this one has. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022067ae3a5701c4029b032606885eee199\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Rail) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd21db9352044c7db155e59bd9806e96\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022800448868258478581e76bbb054418d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022800448868258478581e76bbb054418d4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport (Rail) Legislation Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill, and at the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 24 April 2020. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to securing the role of rail in the New Zealand transport system now and for future generations. This bill entrenches a heavy rail network that delivers for New Zealanders, and it\u2019s our Government\u2019s vision that rail is and should be the backbone of a sustainable 21st century transport system. Our vision is for the country\u2019s rail network to provide modern transit systems in our largest cities while allowing increasing volumes of freight to be moved off the roads and on to the rail network. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ERail is our weapon in the fight against the climate emergency. In our big cities, rail enables us to move more people with fewer vehicles, and I point to the City Rail Link that the party opposite delayed for five years. When it\u2019s completed in 2024, the City Rail Link will allow 54,000 people\u2014that\u2019s the equivalent of 16 lanes of motorway traffic to carry people in and out of the centre of Auckland every hour. That is 54,000 people every hour. That is the power of rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EAnd with freight, we know that over the next two decades, the freight task in this country is predicted to increase by 55 percent. If we move all of that freight on our highways using trucks, our cities and towns and suburbs will become unlivable, and we know that there\u2019s a lot of freight that can be most efficiently moved by rail. Not all of it; there\u2019s plenty of freight that\u2019s time sensitive, that needs the flexibility of the point to point service that the trucking industry offers, but there\u2019s a great deal of freight that can be most efficiently and sustainably moved on the rail system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ERail contributes to our national and regional economic growth. It reduces carbon emissions, it reduces congestion in our cities, it reduces road deaths and injuries, it delivers many wider social benefits, and it provides resilience and connection between communities. The freight task in New Zealand is growing, and it will continue to grow in nearly all regions. We expect freight tonnage in New Zealand to increase more than 55 percent by 2042, and all parts of the freight system will need to play their part to support this growth. Moving more freight by rail will help to achieve net zero emissions by 2050, it will reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads, it will reduce congestion, and it will deliver jobs and economic development in our regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Future of Rail review found that the current state of the rail network is in a state of managed decline due to long-term under-investment. Short-term planning and funding arrangements for the rail network through the annual Budget process creates uncertainty for the rail business, KiwiRail\u2019s freight and logistics business, as well as their customers, who include many of the biggest and most important exporters and producers in the economy. It also found that a lack of integration between the road and rail network investments has been a longstanding problem. Road and rail investments take place within different decision-making frameworks, and this makes it very difficult to achieve sensible trade-offs and policy choices between these two vital transport networks. Fixing these issues requires a long-term commitment to investing in the rail network so that New Zealand has a reliable and resilient national rail network that allows rail to play its part in the freight supply chain to move the freight that it can move most efficiently and sustainably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EOn top of investment in the passenger network through the National Land Transport Fund\u2014and I want to just say that, on Monday morning this week, it was great to be out at Trentham with my colleagues Chris Hipkins and Ron Mark announcing and kicking off the beginning of construction on the double-tracking of the railway line between Upper Hutt and Trentham. That\u2019s an improvement to the Wellington regional network that\u2019s been talked about for 50 years. Our Government is getting on and doing it after 50 years of other people talking about it, and Ron Mark made the comment when we were out there at the Trentham railway station that he and Chris Hipkins had campaigned in 2008 on those improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aee0e3ffda549e7a85abb162eb7fa7e\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: What happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273dbcdde8ef04f29ae4d6f27b5077ba2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing happened for nine years\u2014nothing happened for nine years\u2014but now our Government is getting on and doing it. It is part of a package worth $196 million that our Government is investing in improvements to the Wairarapa line, supporting those communities in the Wairarapa and making a more efficient service in Wellington that will serve both commuters and freight customers. And I should remind the House that, in the Wellbeing Budget, earlier this year, the Government made a $1 billion investment in the rail network\u2014a $1 billion investment; $741 million of that is just the first phase of investment needed to start restoring a reliable, resilient, and safe freight and passenger network. Alongside that $741 million, another $300 million has been committed from the Provincial Growth Fund to support regional rail projects, to provide lead investments, and to support growth and jobs in the regions as they too recover from nine years of neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EFixing rail is not only about increasing investment; we cannot continue with the current approach to planning and funding rail that we\u2019ve inherited. Until now, rail\u2019s been treated as an orphan in the transport system, left out in the cold, cut off from the funding, planning, and decision making in the national land transport programme. We are bringing rail in from the cold, fully integrating it alongside roads, motorways, and all the transport investments so that, for any transport task no matter what it is, decision makers can consider rail alongside other modes and invest in the most sustainable and efficient option. We want to move more people and more freight by rail, and we want to grow the network where it makes good economic sense. That means investing in the infrastructure, the rolling stock, the hardware, and the people that will make the system work as it should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe Land Transport Management Act 2003 currently deals with the planning and funding of public transport, State highways, and local roads, and this framework ensures that these land transport modes are planned on a long-term basis and have certainty. This bill amends the Land Transport Management Act and the Land Transport Act 1998 to bring the planning and the funding of the rail network under the land transport planning and funding regime set out in the Act. The new rail planning and funding framework will see a statutory three-year rail network investment programme prepared. The Minister of Transport will be required to approve in consultation with KiwiRail shareholding Ministers. The Minister of Transport will be required to approve National Land Transport Fund allocations for rail network investments. KiwiRail will be responsible for developing the rail network investment programme and the delivery of rail activities within it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) will also have important roles under the proposed changes. The NZTA will provide advice for the Minister of Transport on how the rail network investment programme fits with the overall land transport investment programme. The agency will also be responsible for monitoring the delivery of the programme. This bill also recognises the importance of metro rail in the Auckland and Wellington regions and, under the bill, KiwiRail will become a member of the regional transport committees in those regions. Those committees put together the regional land transport plans every three years. KiwiRail and the regions already work closely together on the development of the Auckland and Wellington rail networks, and this provision in the bill will just reinforce that relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe changes to the Land Transport Act will also allow fees and charges on track users to be set by regulation and to be paid into the National Land Transport Fund. This will ensure that track users can contribute to the costs of the rail network in a fair and transparent way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill is about changing our approach to transport and taking a long-term, strategic-planning approach to rail. It will consider rail and road investments together in a joined up way. It will allow fair, rational, and consistent decision-making and investment. This will deliver a better, stronger, more sustainable transport system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12ceef974c24b3ead0d7e5384860287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12ceef974c24b3ead0d7e5384860287\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The National Party will be opposing this piece of legislation, and I want to explain to the House why, and want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b374e4180b5447b970445932a7b33a4\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: What a surprise!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277f1353338b5418386f42352580807a6\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well that\u2019s a bit unfair. We support all sorts of legislation but not this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI want to explain to the House why that is. Let me start by talking about rail in New Zealand. It was the Minister of railways, Gordon Coates, in 1923 who said, \u201CThe railways have never been regarded or run as a profit-making concern\u201D, and we are getting back to that point 100 years later, where the Government appears to have no expectation of commercial common sense and no expectation of profit making on the railways. We are going back to those days that Gordon Coates talked about in 1923\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225151bbb469204355ab72bc29977279c7\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Neo-liberal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226af23b254f1745a5a3edfd4e420ff9a5\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CHear, hear.\u201D says Clare Curran. Well, that tells you all you need to know, I suspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221706e867871049ea8526f96383bc91b2\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t. I said neo-liberal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692e067544124e71870ac3dac8a6ae6f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh. Ha, ha! Well, that doesn\u2019t even deserve a response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s be clear about it in New Zealand. The economics of rail in New Zealand are challenging. We are a long and thin country with challenging geography. We have a population density that is far less than other countries. The United Kingdom, for example, has 338 per square kilometre; Japan has 251; we have 16. The freight used in New Zealand on the rail is difficult. The routes that the freight on rail operates on are mapped out often from routes 100 years ago, and so you have to travel over quite long distances to reach the same destinations caused by roads. So rail in New Zealand is economically challenging, but it plays an important role. That is definitely true. The Minister made mention of that in his speech, and, of course, he is correct. Freight makes sense where you\u2019ve got bulky products that are close to markets and close to ports. I\u2019m, in particular, thinking of the \u201CGolden Triangle\u201D of Hamilton and Tauranga and Auckland, where rail does make sense. In the rail lines in Auckland, Hamilton, and Tauranga there is good use of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d36322c48a48329295635a7f0a5cf1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Particularly the Auckland part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022931f2d08fdc846fc845c812571094d70\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CParticularly the Auckland\u201D says Simeon Brown, there is good use. But let\u2019s be clear: 93 percent of freight in New Zealand does not travel by rail; it travels on the road. Let\u2019s also be clear that that is a decision made by freight companies and people transporting goods around, who have made those decisions because it\u2019s more economically sensible to move something on the road by truck than it is by rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ERail makes sense for our metro networks. You\u2019ll never hear a stronger defender of our passenger rail networks in Wellington: 10,000 people in Hutt South and the Rimutaka electorate every day get on the train and go into Wellington. It is a vital part of the Wellington metro network, as, indeed, it is part of the Auckland network. National is proud of our investment in metro rail. It was the National Government\u2014despite what the Minister says about nine years of neglect\u2014that bought the Matangi trains for the Wellington railway network. It was National that completed the electrification in Auckland, which has driven the very large increase in passenger growth on the Auckland network. Despite what the Minister says about the City Rail Link, it was National that agreed to get on with the City Rail Link.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI welcome\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0023eaa16d045bfb3ce6308cc76d1fe\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: More like delayed it for five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf80a67bb7449e7bee81b75d8284710\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he might quibble, but I welcome what the Minister said around the thousands of passengers that that will allow the Auckland metro rail network to take. That will be a good thing, because they\u2019ll be people not in cars; they\u2019ll be people using that rail link. And, of course, I think you\u2019re beginning to see passenger usage in Auckland continue to increase. So rail in New Zealand definitely has a place, but we need to be cognisant and we need to be clear that the economics in many parts of the country are challenging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the second point I want to make, which is about what is the appropriate structure for rail in New Zealand. It would be true to say that rail is probably the most reviewed operation in New Zealand history. We have oscillated, basically, from rail as a public service sponge for excess employment, which was how rail operated throughout most of the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s. It was the biggest employer in the country and the Government owned the rail. There were no commercial disciplines whatsoever, and there were railway lines and spur lines all around the country. I think everyone agrees that that was, essentially, a sub-optimal state of affairs. It was totally economically inefficient and, of course, we unwound that in the 1980s\u2014and 1982 was when the restructuring started. People actually often claim it was Prebble that destroyed rail or started it all. It was actually started in 1982 under Muldoon\u2014that great reformer, not. But he started the process of reforming rail, and then, of course, we had the reform of rail from 1984 onwards. Then we had privatisation from 1993 to 1996, and then the renationalisation when we now have KiwiRail in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe National Government\u2019s approach to KiwiRail was to expand rail where it made sense\u2014and that\u2019s in Auckland and Wellington and the \u201CGolden Triangle\u201D, as I talked about\u2014but to try and make sure it was run in a commercially focused way. That brings me to the concern about this bill and about where this Government is taking rail, which is that we are now seeing\u2014on the great oscillation in New Zealand in how we run rail between public service non-commerciality and complete profit maximisation\u2014the wheel turn again back towards that public service mentality where commercial discipline goes out the window.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll give you an example. KiwiRail, even though it\u2019s a State-owned enterprise, has been revalued by Treasury as an entity that is just a public benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223598bb9094ab459e876e10d13ccab6b8\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an entirely different issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d96e1ce1e240e6b0a198e90cf197f0\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, it\u2019s not a completely different issue; it goes completely to the point, which is: what is the expectation of rail in our transport system? If Treasury and the Government regard KiwiRail and the Crown accounts as an entity that is not a for-profit entity\u2014that\u2019s the distinction: it\u2019s not a for-profit entity; it\u2019s a public-benefit entity\u2014that has an impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe saw the instruction to KiwiRail to cease the ending\u2014not do the diesel electrification, which Michael Wood talked about back in 2018. And so what we are seeing on the pendulum is KiwiRail revert to being something that doesn\u2019t have any commercial discipline on it. And Mr Twyford, the Minister, talks about the huge increases in funding going to rail. Our concern in the National Party is that none of that is based on strong business cases because none of them are available. We saw $331 million in Budget 2019, we\u2019ve got huge amounts of money going through the Provincial Growth Fund, and our concern is that those investments are actually wealth destroying. They\u2019re not actually investments that will grow the economy; they\u2019re actually wealth destructive. We\u2019ve seen the opening of commercially dubious lines like Napier to Wairoa, for example, which members opposite got very worked up about when the last National Government was in power. But they\u2019ve reopened it. Do you know how much freight\u2019s travelled on that line so far? Nothing. Nothing. No freight has travelled on the Napier to Wairoa railway line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo that brings me to the third point, which is why we don\u2019t support this bill. The first point is we don\u2019t believe the case for change has been made. And the Minister really didn\u2019t make a very strong case for change. We think the status quo is fundamentally satisfactory. Road users pay for roads and the maintenance of existing roads through fuel taxes and road-user charges and the users of rail pay for the use of the rail network through a State-owned enterprise (SOE), which is called Kiwi Rail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe think that having KiwiRail as an SOE that has a for-profit motive and is run under the Companies Act is something that\u2019s a good thing because it promotes commercial discipline. It means that we don\u2019t get uneconomic, wealth-destructive investments. The worry with this bill is that, essentially, road users will end up cross-subsidising rail users on uneconomic routes that rail users don\u2019t wish to use. And so the concern is that this is going to be a giant waste of money, and that is why we oppose the bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002209f81780d37d4ad1889f33b4c1684ccd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209f81780d37d4ad1889f33b4c1684ccd\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very pleased to be able to have the opportunity to speak in this debate and I, firstly, want to address the very interesting peroration we just had from the previous speaker, Chris Bishop, which did provide some interesting information about the history of rail in New Zealand and the National Party\u2019s position on it at various times. But very few points actually came close to addressing what the concerns of the National Party might actually be with the substance of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe problem is that there are several core fallacies that sit at the heart of the National Party\u2019s analysis of rail. As soon as you mention it, it\u2019s kind of like National Party bingo. David Bennett pops up and says \u201Csocialism\u201D as soon as you talk about rail. It\u2019s just this Pavlovian instinct. And we had another good one from Mr Bishop, which was the claim that rail in New Zealand is not viable as a transport mode because it doesn\u2019t make a profit\u2014because it doesn\u2019t make a profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a94eb7be9bc4234aa8ae69a55e4030c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d62aeb1d4aa4d319d5571b0b925d31e\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bishop should check the Hansard, because this was one of the assertions near the very beginning of his speech. And of course the interesting thing about that assertion is that it never gets applied by the National Party to roads. Does anyone have a reasonable expectation that there needs to be a profit made out of the New Zealand roading network? Never. But we always get this fundamental objection to any investment in New Zealand\u2019s rail network that doesn\u2019t turn a profit, as if that somehow undermines its role as a core piece of transport infrastructure in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat Mr Bishop also did not address was actually the core purpose of the bill and why the National Party might object to it. At its heart, what this bill does is says that in a country like New Zealand\u2014particularly a small country, I would argue\u2014it makes sense that we have an integrated transport network, that we have a model for planning and funding our transport infrastructure that is actually linked together, that allows us to make rational decisions about where the money best goes to get the best transport outcomes. Whether it\u2019s around the efficiency of freight, decongesting the country, environmental impacts\u2014let\u2019s actually look at the ability that we have to invest as a country and then make rational decisions about whether that should go into roading solutions or rail solutions or coastal shipping solutions or whatever it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat is important about that approach is that it shifts the dial on the approach that we have had for so many years in New Zealand where we haven\u2019t had a mode-neutral approach, but where the investment has just, virtually, automatically gone to roading. That is one of the reasons\u2014coming to one of the points that Mr Bishop raises, he\u2019s quite correct when he says that 93 percent of freight in New Zealand currently goes by road. Without doubt, road has been and is and will continue to be an incredibly important part of the New Zealand transport infrastructure system, and will probably continue to be the dominant mode by which freight is sent around the country. It\u2019s a strawman argument; no one is arguing against that. But, of course, people do make their choices about the infrastructure that they use based on the quality of the infrastructure that is available to them, and the fact that we have had decades of rundown, and asset stripping of our rail system has in fact made the rail system less efficient and less capable and less of an option for people who might wish to use it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI remember one of my very first select committee annual reviews when I was elected as a member of this House was on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee in the previous Parliament. I remember the poor bloke, the chair of KiwiRail, turning up and telling us about the utterly woeful state of the infrastructure that he had to oversee. So we have a freight network in New Zealand in which trains have to slow down to a virtual crawl because they\u2019re going over bridges and other pieces of infrastructure that are 100 years old and need a massive amount of investment to actually make them a viable option. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo one of the core things that this Government is about is having a mode-neutral approach and about making the investments so that people, whether they are looking to send freight around the country, whether it is passengers in our cities, actually have real transport choices\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a88650936646444398953968c78268aa\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you pay for it then? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022930eb7e81a704d89ad0afbafa5cc0afe\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and then can make rational choices about the best way to send\u2014\u201Cwhy don\u2019t they pay for it?\u201D Well, it\u2019s exactly the same question with roading, of course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f26c6dc4463b4c9dac2d26e35e7c20ce\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Fuel tax! Excise tax! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f21d7f792f4e1ab26f59a9594d4f0d\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: The Government makes investments\u2014yes. And this is the point that Mr Bishop forgets about this bill as well: this bill is about rail making user charges and paying into the National Land Transport Fund\u2014that is what this bill does. So the objections of the members opposite that, somehow, this is about a free ride for rail are utterly spurious, because the bill itself says that rail should make a contribution and then, as a Government, we make rational decisions. That is what they are arguing against\u2014they are arguing against an integrated transport network and a mode-neutral approach to making transport investments. That is the core of it\u2014the National Party\u2019s fundamental, unhealthy, almost screwy sort of love affair with as many big roading projects as possible at the expense of actually making the best transport decisions that are available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ELet me make this point as well, the point around cross-subsidisation. Under the previous Government, in 2016, KiwiRail actually undertook a study that was carried out by Ernst \u0026amp; Young that actually looked at the economic contribution of rail to New Zealand\u2019s economy. What the Ernst \u0026amp; Young study revealed was that, actually, rail delivers $1.6 billion of benefits to the transport system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a47fd01b83d4ecfbaa00e432de4d86e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yeah. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2353a73c5084cc6b94d337c0f4cc2a0\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: This was a study that Mr Bishop scoffs at that was carried out under the previous Government in 2016, and they suppressed it\u2014$1.6 billion of decongestion benefits that the rail system at that point in 2016, as parlous and rundown as it was, delivered to the broader transport system. So those members shouldn\u2019t talk about cross-subsidisation unless they are prepared to look at the benefits from rail that actually accrue to the rest of the transport system as well. That goes to the very point about this bill. It is just stupid policymaking to put our transport modes in different buckets and not have an integrated transport planning and funding process. That is all this bill does. What do those members object to about having a transport funding mechanism whereby we say \u201CWe\u2019re mode-neutral and we make the decisions based on the best investment and the best outcomes for New Zealand\u2019s transport network.\u201D? It is bizarre that the National Party can\u2019t deal with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill is important, and at each level it ensures that rail is brought into the transport planning process\u2014in the National Land Transport Fund, but also at the regional land transport planning level. Members and people watching this debate may not be aware, but we do have a regional land transport planning process, whereby territorial and local authorities and local residents can front up to a committee\u2014I think it\u2019s about once every three years\u2014that makes decisions that feed into the national land transport planning process about what the important projects might be in each region, and I have gone and submitted in Auckland to that effect. This bill will ensure that at that level as well, people, whether they\u2019re in Auckland or Wellington or Christchurch or the regions, are able to front up to their regional land transport planning committee and actually talk about the investments that would make a difference in their area. They can advocate for roading projects and they can advocate for rail projects or other transport modes. Again, it\u2019s actually about having an integrated approach at every level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe story of rail in New Zealand is one of a nation-building piece of infrastructure. You only have to go back to the 1880s and Julius Vogel and his vision for a connected New Zealand in which people and freight could move around. It was an essential part of the building of this country. But then, in a period of significant decline and rundown and abuse through the 1980s and 1990s\u2014rail was, of course, privatised during the 1990s, under the National Government of that era\u2014it was shamelessly asset-stripped by foreign corporate raiders. Hundreds of millions of dollars were, basically, stripped out of that system and taken overseas by fat cats, and New Zealand was left with a rail system inherited by the fifth Labour Government that was utterly on its knees. So I pay tribute, actually, to the Government, and particularly Michael Cullen, who intervened to make sure that New Zealand had a functional rail system. Without that decision, New Zealand\u2019s rail network was in absolute dire straits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESince that time, we have actually seen a significant renaissance of rail, whether it\u2019s on the freight front or whether it\u2019s in our cities, where investment\u2014which mostly commenced under the fifth Labour Government\u2014has delivered massive increases in patronage. Commuter patronage in the Auckland region since 2010 has gone up, I think, by about four- to fivefold, or 400 to 500 percent\u2014absolutely outstanding stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis bill, which comes out of the Future of Rail report initiated by this Government\u2014and I acknowledge our partners, New Zealand First and the Greens, who have been right in behind this\u2014is about building a viable future for rail, a mode-neutral, integrated planning and funding system to deliver the best possible transport network for New Zealanders to get people and freight moving freely around our country. It is bizarre that the National Party opposes those things, but not surprising, given their bizarre, anti-rail bias. But I think that New Zealanders in the cities and the regions all over our country are going to be right behind this excellent piece of legislation and the further renaissance of rail under this Government. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00229fba1fecac974236b4df4baf2ef93868\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fba1fecac974236b4df4baf2ef93868\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, that previous member\u2014why, why was he so relentlessly putting the boot in to his own team? He talked about Michael Cullen. Well, Michael Cullen\u2019s philosophy was \u201Csell low, buy high\u201D, and over that side, they call that investment. Well, we can guess where it\u2019s going to lead to, if that\u2019s their approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EHe talked about the model that KiwiRail operates under now and he spent minutes telling us how poor it was, but who set it up? It was the Hon Dame Annette King, and he\u2019s just told us how rubbish she is. That\u2019s absolutely terrible. Look, I\u2019ve got more respect for Dame Annette than that, and certainly a lot more than Mr Wood does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut I want to talk about the three elements that are really behind this bill but that aren\u2019t explicit in the words, though they are the true reasons behind it. The first is they are blinded by ideology\u2014particularly, two of the three governing parties\u2014where they have this romantic love for rail, often couched in terms of emissions reductions, but this is one of the few items that the three governing parties can actually agree on. Labour and the Greens just see it as this ideological bent they have for \u201CIf it\u2019s rail, it must be good.\u201D, but for New Zealand First, as long as it is reminiscent of the 1970s, they are into it. I mean, you only need to look at their economic policy to see the truth behind that statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo what we have is them trying to say \u201CWe\u2019re going to do whatever it takes to have more rail.\u201D, and they try to claim that if only the public would agree to investment in rail, it would shine through and everyone would see it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, here\u2019s the reality: New Zealand\u2019s had a rail network for 100-odd years, and people have been able to shift themselves or their goods on that rail network. If it was the optimal choice, then passengers and companies moving goods would be using it, and here\u2019s the thing: if they were using it, then it would generate revenue and profit and it would have been able to reinvest that in its stock and its tracks, and it could have done the renewal they are talking about. It\u2019s the failure of rail to meet customers\u2019 needs which drives the problem here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAll they are saying is \u201CLet\u2019s take some of the taxpayer money and make a bad situation even worse.\u201D, because, as far as they\u2019re concerned, if it\u2019s rail it must be good, which brings us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9d6b2ba2304ba58cfbe4272abf5ce7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9d6b2ba2304ba58cfbe4272abf5ce7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20191212fd10a2f43bb24282bb67391ad62d20fc000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"