"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022175d258c79084ec0b603d5a331dfbdce\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 FEBRUARY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f96238bc7d0a4928b3a01cf2fda72f49\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 FEBRUARY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022978cfb4e5e704b779600d6a09932a596\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a3a934d28ae43b4b3559acdb7da67d8\u0022\u003ERepublic of Iceland\u2014Steingr\u00EDmur Sigf\u00FAsson, Speaker of the Althingi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002209f9ea94c61d434d904154e1dab10daa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209f9ea94c61d434d904154e1dab10daa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019m sure that you will wish to welcome esteemed Steingr\u00EDmur Sigf\u00FAsson, Speaker of the Althingi of the Republic of Iceland and his delegation, who are present in the gallery, and the Speaker is to my left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESteingr\u00EDmur Sigf\u00FAsson, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E[Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5ac7470977c49d5abe23ae732bc1f2d\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d7e2659719546e282916c47a67e2e60\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb61da23fb5c44d888a98b424cddc175\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb61da23fb5c44d888a98b424cddc175\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I move that this House express\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c90b22e852e94656af1ac9d1e7b5b8c8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. I think we\u2019ve got the presentation to do first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206bffce6ed1f46be96d82551afc33641\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Excuse me. I present the Prime Minister\u2019s statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222417150d87346398b7d388e61aab01d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House. Copies are available on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0d8be7ded448a3bb1a2d6ec7e3baea\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I move again, with much enthusiasm. I move, That this House express its confidence in the coalition Government and commend its programme for 2020, as set out in the Prime Minister\u2019s statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to start where I started in January, as it were, because today is not the first time that I have spoken of the aspiration that this Government has for New Zealand and for this Government\u2019s programme for the next year. The first time that I spoke of the aspirations of this Government in 2020 was on 31 January, and it was under somewhat more private circumstances. It was when I last visited Mike Moore. He asked, in a way that only Mike Moore can. After we\u2019d exchanged very brief pleasantries, he said, \u201CWhat are you doing next?\u201D The answer to that is simple: more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to share with this House what I shared with Mike Moore that day: that our agenda for 2020 is based both on where we started\u2014the circumstances and context under which this Government took office\u2014and on where we are now and the environment that we\u2019re operating in and the experience of New Zealanders, and it is focused on where we need to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s start at the very start. In the beginning, before there was light, there were nine years of darkness. It wasn\u2019t like a black darkness; more a dark shade of blue kind of darkness\u2014the worst kind. Now, those words may be familiar, at least to members on this side of the House. They were written by a very great writer, \u201CKevin Davies\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAfter nine long years, there may not have been a blue smoke, but there was plenty of denial. There was denial that we had a housing crisis. There was denial that kids were doing their homework in cars. There was denial that children in this country\u2014an affluent country\u2014did not have all that they needed to thrive. There was denial that we had an infrastructure deficit and that we were all suffering as a nation as a result. There was denial that our hospitals were broken. I don\u2019t say that lightly. Simple things like pipes being replaced, that elevators could work, or, worse still, sewage down walls were the ultimate manifestation. There was denial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat denial seemed to exist until, after those nine years, we entered into an election phase. When we entered into that election phase, National emerged from the smoke of denial with a weighty tome known as a press statement. In that press statement they promised much. They promised roads. They promised infrastructure. They even made promises about child poverty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut, as a very wise man said on the paepae at Waitangi, know us by our deeds. Know us by what we do, not by a press statement at the eleventh hour before people go to the polls\u2014know us by what we do. That is why I wish to reflect on where we are now, as well as projecting forward into where we must go. Those deeds tell you a story. The first thing that they tell to you strongly is that we are a Government of infrastructure\u2014undeniably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI have a visual aid. The Leader of the Opposition loves this one! The Leader of the Opposition is particularly fond of this graph! This graph tells a story better than anything, and this is of course based on Treasury\u2019s data. This shows capital investment, and it demonstrates helpfully in a colour-coded manner that in 2016 we saw no new dollars for health capital expenditure. In 2017, we saw just $150 million. No wonder we had sewage in the walls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWithin two years, of course, we have invested $2.5 billion into health. Now, that number, it doesn\u2019t tell you the story of the mental health wards that we are making safe again by rebuilding them in the central North Island in Waikato. It doesn\u2019t tell you about the investment we\u2019re putting into Tai R\u0101whiti, which doesn\u2019t have beds for alcohol and drug rehabilitation. It doesn\u2019t tell you about the new maternity services and child health services at Starship that we are rebuilding and expanding. But that is what that $2.5 billion\u2014and, of course, we can\u2019t forget Dunedin Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have put $1.5 billion into schools. For the first time ever we have long-term planning to make sure that we can cater for over 100,000 students coming into our schooling system. Again, the message that you don\u2019t see in just a graph is that we are putting money into every single school\u2014up to $400,000 for most State schools so that they can do simple things like repair the roof or put down new carpet. I\u2019ll for ever remember the story of Grant Robertson saying he visited a local school and couldn\u2019t find the principal\u2014it was January, I believe. They were out and about walking around with a tradie, taking notes of all the work they could do because of what we delivered at the end of last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat is, of course, before you take into account just the huge extent of what we put in through the New Zealand upgrade package: $12 billion, which adds a significant amount to make sure that we get New Zealanders out of congestion, that we give them options for walking and cycling and rail, and that we continue to make sure that safety improvements also continue to be at the top of our agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EInfrastructure means going beyond just that rebuild and future planning. The Infrastructure Commission has been key. Financing has been key through the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill to support future housing and urban development. Ultimately, I stand proudly as the Prime Minister for the \u201CGovernment of infrastructure\u201D, and it is undeniable\u2014it is undeniable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ETo be the Government of infrastructure, we have to be the Government of training and education. We simply cannot deliver this infrastructure without having that relentless focus on training and education. When we came in, we moved swiftly to implement fees-free. That not only has reduced the burden of debt for our young people for generations to come, it\u2019s meant that those moving into apprenticeships for those first two years pay nothing. That has made a difference. Since that time 3,900 Kiwis have taken up construction apprenticeships. That is exactly what this country needed. Not only that, we\u2019ve boosted vocational education and training: 4,000 places for trades academy and gateway places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMana in Mahi: a programme I will, alongside our Minister, forever be proud of. We are just at the beginning of that programme, but I read the reports and I read the stories, for instance, of the young person who had been on a long-term benefit, who found, through Mana in Mahi, a subsidised role by an employer working in landscaping. The difference that it made to their mental health, in their own words, was \u201Cundeniable\u201D. I am so proud of that programme. It sits alongside He Poutama Rangatahi as well. We are placing thousands of young people through that programme into work. The result: a 20 percent increase in construction apprenticeships, more than 11,000 Kiwis in the construction sector in the last couple of years according to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. We are making a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, we need every single one of those young people and people in apprenticeships, because we are also proudly a Government of housing. And I say that firmly and proudly. I\u2019m going to speak, Mr Speaker, if you will allow me, to review the last Government\u2019s record, because that side of the House has nothing but a foundation of shame when it comes to housing. Homelessness rates at the worst levels we\u2019ve seen in the OECD and homeownership the worst since 1951. At a time when children were sleeping in cars, what did they do to State houses? They decreased\u2014our net State housing stock decreased by 5,000. When we needed housing the most, that Government sold them. It is a disgrace. We\u2019ve had to rebuild ever since, but we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have now created more than 4,258 public housing places. Every single one of these is a home. Every single one of these is a home for someone that did not exist before. In the time that it has taken to rebuild what they\u2019ve created, we have put people in homes, and it is making a difference. First-home buyers now make up 24 percent of the market. That has been through the changes we made to tax loopholes to make sure that we shut down overseas investment in our residential housing market and changes that we\u2019ve made to income support for those buying houses. We have ensured that 1,100 households have been housed through Housing First. There\u2019s more to come, because we currently have 3,480\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e8b999dec4495baef4877351bba2f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What about KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e6090f53cee4129a70e64816ca5d132\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014houses under construction in the Government build programme, Minister Smith. I understand why you\u2019re a little defensive, because we\u2019re fixing what you broke, and you broke our housing market, and you stood idly by while people lived on the streets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am proud of what we have achieved. It was only over summer that\u2014we, of course, continue to acknowledge that there is more work to do. We have houses under stress. Over the summer, I was speaking with some of the individuals who did see the City Mission over the Christmas period. One thing that stood out to me is that, yes, they were seeking that assistance at that time of year, but the number of those people I spoke to who had, in recent months, moved into new State houses was phenomenal. The message they gave me is \u201CWe are now warm and dry.\u201D Now, what a difference that that policy is making to New Zealanders everywhere. This week we\u2019ve announced an extra $300 million into homelessness, with more details to come. We are proudly a Government of housing and the new builds prove it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThe reason that housing is so important to us, of course, is because family wellbeing and child wellbeing sit at the heart of everything that we do. Now, we\u2019ve demonstrated that from the moment we came into this place, with the Families Package. I\u2019m proud that this year we\u2019ll be celebrating another increase in paid parental leave. Of course, we\u2019ve had that aspiration of lifting it to 26 weeks, and we will. That is an incredible milestone for us\u2014couple that with the Best Start payment, which continues to roll out, increases to the Working for Families package, and, of course, the winter energy payment. You\u2019ll see from that State of the Nation Report today that the Salvation Army is acknowledging the difference that that investment is making to low-income families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOn top of that, we\u2019ve had the indexation of benefits. Now, that means that when wages go up, not only do our superannuitants benefit, but those who are on those tight incomes who are on Government support, they will also see that increase to help them keep pace with the cost of living. It all makes a difference. We know from those changes that between 50,000 and 70,000 children will be lifted out of poverty, and what could be more important than that? Couple that alongside those increases to the minimum wage, and I acknowledge New Zealand First; it was part of their coalition agreement, so we\u2019ll see that go up once again in April this year. By the time that happens, those people on a minimum wage will be $126 a week better off from the changes that we as a Government have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am happy to talk about the cost of living. We know that there are too many New Zealand families who feel the strain. Dropping things like NCEA fees, increasing support for schools so that they don\u2019t ask for school donations, reducing the cost of going to the doctor, making sure that we are driving more housing supply to try and bring down those housing costs in the private sector as well, and, overall, of course, making sure that when there\u2019s a market failure and a problem in the market like fuel, we do something about it, and we will keep doing something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe are also proudly a Government of health and mental health, and, again, I let the numbers tell the entire story. First of all, we have grown the health workforce: 3,000 new medical professionals. We\u2019ve had 1,699 nurses\u2014and they are paid more, of course, with the important settlement that we were a part of\u2014and 736 doctors. We\u2019ve seen an increase in Pharmac, and, of course, that\u2019s meant that a flow-on effect is more funding for important drugs like those that have benefited those who are, sadly, experiencing battles with cancer. Many of us will have stories of people stopping and telling us on the street what a difference that has made, and I am one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EAnd, very proudly, the largest funding boost to mental health this country has ever seen. Just yesterday, I was looking at some of the numbers around people who are already benefiting from those front-line mental health services, and they are at their GPs\u2019 offices, they are in Mana Ake in schools for kids, they are in our schools for our young people. We\u2019re making sure that wherever someone is, help is not far away, whether it\u2019s picking up telehealth services or visiting their local doctor, because the need is so great. There is more work to do. The Suicide Prevention Office will be key. We\u2019re currently going out with requests for proposals for our youth services, our Pasifika and M\u0101ori services, and this year will keep seeing the expansion of those front-line services that we are so proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENo matter where we turn, though, in health, mental health, every part of the system, we have found need, and I find it somewhat ironic to hear the member that services the area where we\u2019ve seen such desperate need, in Counties Manukau, so vocal on this issue. The Simpson review will be pointing to some of the extra work that we need to do, because wherever we have turned, there have been problems that we need to address.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENext, of course, is dealing with the structural issues, because, of course, it\u2019s not enough for us just to say that we deal with these things down track. We need to make sure we have an economy that is supporting everyone, that is delivering prosperity for everyone, and it\u2019s been a mantra you will have heard from the Minister of Finance consistently. I\u2019m happy to let the numbers speak for themselves. We\u2019re a Government that has delivered GDP growth of 2.7 percent. When you look around us, others are falling on hard times, and there\u2019s no denying it\u2019s had an impact for us, but when you take into account the net average that we had under the National Government\u2014the average GDP growth was 2.1 percent\u2014I feel confident that we are doing well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EUnemployment: of course, the Reserve Bank would tell you we\u2019re at full employment, at 4 percent. It is a tight labour market, and, again, relative to what we inherited\u20144.7 percent when we came to office. The average hourly wage sitting at 3.6 percent\u2014in that Government\u2019s first term, it was roughly 2.1 percent we were seeing: those increases in hourly wages. Net debt: 21 percent versus 22.9 percent under the last Government. We\u2019ve seen $13 billion in surpluses in our first two years and $11 billion in surpluses in our next five.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI am proud of this Government\u2019s record when it comes to the management of the economy, but more than just the numbers, I am proud that we\u2019ve seen unemployment go down in Northland, Bay of Plenty, Gisborne, Hawke\u2019s Bay, Manawat\u016B, Whanganui, Otago, and Southland, and that is because of deliberate investment: 530 Provincial Growth Fund projects across the country, making a huge difference. Again, the words tell a story: in Gisborne and Hawke\u2019s Bay, we\u2019re seeing unemployment rates that were as high as 8 percent to 4.1 percent. That is a huge difference. Again, regional growth sits alongside our plan for trade diversification. It sits alongside our investment in research and development, and it is about driving not just any job but decent high-wage jobs for our New Zealanders, and we are delivering on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EOf course, underpinning all of this is the environment. None of this matters if we don\u2019t have a planet we can sustain ourselves on. When we came into office, there was no plan for climate action\u2014there was no plan. We had 4,000 native species at risk of extinction or threatened. We\u2019ve had a record boost into conservation over a small space of time. We\u2019ve had a list on climate change that is almost too long for me to read in one minute and 23 seconds\u2014how about I have a quick go? Zero carbon Act; we\u2019ve ended offshore oil and gas exploration; we\u2019ve reformed the emissions trading scheme; we\u2019ve worked with farmers on a world record - breaking new agreement on dealing with farm-based emissions; new wind farms have been built; the new energy research centre in Taranaki; of course, switching our public buildings to clean energy; and, of course, the upgrades alone in public transport are worth $5.73 billion, for rail, walking, cycling, and transport options. Next is waste, and next is fresh water. We have more to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EFinally\u2014and the Leader of the Opposition will hate this\u20141,800 new police officers, and 500 fog cannons to support our small-business owners. It is all about prevention and supporting the safety of New Zealanders, finally. We are the Government of infrastructure. We are the Government of housing, we\u2019re the Government of family and child wellbeing, of health and mental health, and the Government for the environment. We are a Government of progress. There is more to do. After nine years in blue smoke and darkness, there is plenty more to do, but this year is the chance for New Zealanders to have their say in making sure we as a Government continue to get the job done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2ac2ca6790d45b5b2ec99331899e748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2ac2ca6790d45b5b2ec99331899e748\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That all the words after \u201CThat\u201D be deleted and replaced with \u201Cthis House has no confidence in the Labour-led Government because, in just two short years, it has plunged New Zealand into deficit and failed to deliver on any of its promises.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI can see the relief on Jacinda Ardern\u2019s face that that is going to be her last Prime Minister\u2019s statement. And, actually, I\u2019m not sure where the relief is more palpable: on her face or her caucus\u2019s. But, to be fair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f280d5f35742749db295b840c05c87\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us how Waitangi went!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d45242ed1234a95839f3631e84b6818\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014after almost three years\u2014well, we\u2019ll see in a TV poll rather soon, actually, Kelvin Davis. I\u2019d say rather well. After almost three years of dithering and experimenting and mismanaging the economy and failing to deliver on her promises, New Zealanders can finally see light at the end of the tunnel. Actually, they can\u2019t, because Labour cancelled it! But don\u2019t worry, because National gets things done, and we\u2019ll build it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe won\u2019t have to hear any more next year hollow statements from the Prime Minister. She\u2019s not going to have to stand up and make empty promises about building 100,000 KiwiBuild houses in 10 years and just hope for the best. And, by the way, did she mention KiwiBuild?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eb2583f6a2e4bbbb9679237d164757a\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c8ed65274e74e8fb1131bc6de8f617f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Is it in this document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246bb3c387e4d4534a6b12d3a8d901282\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293827e4bbec14481805ae42c3cb573b2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: I find that staggering. The Prime Minister says, \u201CKnow us by our deeds.\u201D How many KiwiBuild houses have they built?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1b43068f58f400e8ac0a871e884615a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: 250.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed517de507e4d3793b5ea9924c9aa62\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Two hundred, three hundred. They have cancelled more houses at Ihum\u0101tao than they have built in this term of Government, and she has the audacity to say she\u2019s running a facts-based campaign this year where they are the party of infrastructure. I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EShe won\u2019t have to make ridiculous comments like they\u2019ll get light rail down Dominion Road before 2021 and just hope for the best. Where is that light rail? Michael Wood gets out from his house in Mount Roskill every single morning and he looks for it. He\u2019ll be looking a heck of a long time. It hasn\u2019t been built, it hasn\u2019t been planned, it hasn\u2019t been funded, it hasn\u2019t been consented\u2014nothing whatsoever has happened. And she won\u2019t have to talk about ending poverty in her first winter and hoping for that, because we know her by her deeds, and we know that it\u2019s getting worse. A Salvation Army report makes that very clear today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EJacinda Ardern\u2019s Government will go down in history as a story of lost opportunities for New Zealanders, whether it will be no infrastructure projects starting anywhere in New Zealand\u2014and that\u2019s the story; that\u2019s right. Well, I hear you say, \u201CShane Jones\u2019 roundabout.\u201D Actually, even that hasn\u2019t started, as I understand it\u2014not even that. Not a single infrastructure project in her three years in Government\u2014not light rail, not KiwiBuild, not roads, not nothing, and almost 30,000 people on the dole and seven out of nine child poverty indicators getting worse under this Government. And she has the temerity to start and say she\u2019s starting at the beginning because things were so bad. These things are getting worse under this Government. That is what is happening in New Zealand right now, and these aren\u2019t just statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243ba31620e6740298b18e5650b9f52ba\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Quote real numbers, Simon. Quote real numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0fad5272cc548989dd18339fa4d1295\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: These are real people on the ground\u2014in your electorate, actually, Kelvin Davis\u2014who are getting poorer, who are finding it harder, who don\u2019t have houses, who don\u2019t have food, and who have to go for food parcels because your Government is failing to deliver on its promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s even worse about the speech we\u2019ve just heard in this long diatribe here of hollowness, where nothing is happening here, is not only have they achieved nothing in three years, there\u2019s nothing new. There is a sense of being bereft of anything new for New Zealand, a sense of aspiration and delivery for this country in the years to come. We\u2019ve had 300 KiwiBuild houses, and Phil Twyford looks down because he knows the record and how bad it is. We were supposed to be at 6,000, at 10,000 a year, at 100,000 over the next decade and counting, and they\u2019ve cancelled more than they\u2019ve started. Not a single kilometre of track of light rail down Dominion Road, when it was meant to be built by 2021. They pumped up fuel prices. They raised a regional fuel tax that is really hurting those people Kelvin Davis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022007bbdd149b84bb696cf025e162ecc17\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Fleecing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022401d7b1b9a944eeaa2f27b269c403636\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Fleecing? Well, we know who the \u201CFleecer in Chief\u201D is, Paul Goldsmith, and it isn\u2019t you. They\u2019ve done all these things and, instead of getting new roads, instead of doing new infrastructure in this country, we have less happening than before in a very, very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe amazing thing about this document is\u2014I think it\u2019s on page 3\u2014they start by saying, because they\u2019re obsessed with the National-led Government, how terrible it was we overinvested in roads. Six paragraphs down, what does she say? We\u2019re going to build lots of roads. She spends more time in this speech talking about roads than she does about light rail\u2014the one thing they did promise\u2014because, actually, New Zealanders know they can\u2019t deliver on their promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThey have cancelled more in Kelvin Davis\u2019 electorate than they\u2019ve started anywhere around New Zealand\u2014Whang\u0101rei to Te Hana, the East-West Link, Cambridge to Piarere, P\u014Dkeno to Mangatarata, Piarere to Tauriko, Waih\u012B to \u014Cmokoroa, the Tauranga Northern Link, Katikati, Tauriko West network connections, \u014Ctaki to Levin, P\u0113tone to Grenada Link Road and, Chris Bishop, the Melling Interchange: all cancelled. None of it is happening. And now Phil Twyford, I hear, in speeches, is not sure what to say. Well, he\u2019s not allowed to talk but sometimes he gets out. Jacinda gets angry at him but he gets out and talks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b085325c61a4cefbad679c38fc48f39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220730bf81ca5a407e91b9888bf7cbe1a3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Jacinda Ardern. True to their form, what we know about this Government is they are first class at announcements. I don\u2019t even think they\u2019re third rate at delivery; they are hopeless at it, and New Zealanders deserve much better than 2\u00BD years in, coming back and saying, \u201CYeah, we will do some of these projects.\u201D, and the best they can offer is that one or two of them are going to have a cycleway. Well, Julie Anne Genter might be happy with that but New Zealanders aren\u2019t. They are mightily brassed off at the lack of delivery when the cost of living, another important issue, is going through the roof. Actually, if only they were building roofs\u2014they\u2019re not, but the cost of living is going through the roof.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe hear the stories every single day around New Zealand. We hear the stories of New Zealanders who feel they are working harder. They are trying harder. They are doing more. They are spending more time at work, but the tax, the cost, the regulation\u2014whether they are working for someone or they\u2019re their own employer\u2014is making things harder, and taxes are going on others and not on them, as money is wasted by this Government like it\u2019s a drunken sailor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe cost of living, I repeat, is going through the roof: whether it\u2019s $2,600 that median rent has gone up a year under this Government\u2014$55 a week\u2014and this Prime Minister over here talks about eighty-something dollars a week more. Well, most of it\u2019s gone in rent. Petrol is $200 more a year just in the additional tax that\u2019s been put on for a typical person. There are the cancelled tax cuts\u2014that takes us to another thousand dollars a year that people could have had in their pockets, and that would have made a difference in terms of paying those bills, getting those school uniforms, doing the things that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENevertheless, under this Government, with that cancelled, they are some $4,000 a year worse off, and there are 28,000 more people on the dole. What is that? Half of Whanganui? Half of Whang\u0101rei? A couple of Whakat\u0101nes? There are more people on the dole. When New Zealanders are working harder and are fed up with that because of the costs they\u2019re paying, there are more people who are on the dole right now. Job growth has flat-lined, because there are no expectations under this Government to get a job. [Interruption] And they laugh, but New Zealanders aren\u2019t laughing, because they see a situation where there\u2019s been lack of delivery, where there\u2019s no infrastructure, where the economy\u2019s getting worse, and where there\u2019s a situation where people are facing more costs. There are 7,000 more children in poverty today than there were a couple of years ago, I say to Ron Mark\u20147,000 more children. Actually, there are tens of thousands sitting there, and the Christchurch City Mission says that things were better under us and that things have got much, much worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHardship grants have doubled. Emergency housing grants have increased by 500 percent, and the social housing waiting list has more than doubled to over 13,000 families. They\u2019ve been better at filling motels than they have at building houses. Hundreds of millions of dollars are going on people\u2014and you\u2019d think the Prime Minister would finish on a strong point, actually. She finished on 1,800 new police officers. I say again: I thought, Jacinda Ardern, that we were going to have a facts-based campaign this year. If you don\u2019t like what you promised, just change the target and pretend nothing happened. Say black is white and white is black and hold up a graph that\u2019s blank and red and supposedly means something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThey said they\u2019d deliver. While we\u2019re on promises, they said they\u2019d deliver 100 percent qualified early childhood teachers. Where are they? Today we hear we\u2019re waiting longer and longer and longer for children with special needs who need special attention in our schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EOne billion trees, Shane Jones. Where are they? The best he\u2019s given us is a small dying shrub. And someone probably paid a donation for it, but that\u2019s the way it goes. They have been so incompetent. They haven\u2019t delivered, and they are not managing the economy at all. In fact, we see things going backwards\u2014a situation where we had decades of surpluses, actually, as far as they eye could see, according to Treasury. The legacy of John Key and Bill English is a situation where from the global financial crisis we went to prosperity, and now this Government has got us back in deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIf Grant Robertson were here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b53c2fc7fa664138ac402c1c9eec4092\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows he\u2019s out of order\u2014or he should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ee7faea6d6489f94d24ec69a243363\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Grant Robertson will tell us\u2014about that situation, that deficit\u2014that we will be back in surplus soon. One thing I know about Labour parties is that once they\u2019re in deficit, you never go back. They have a taste for wasteful spending. And that\u2019s the situation. And we\u2019ll see, Jacinda Ardern, at this Budget. You\u2019ve been bequeathed, Jacinda Ardern, a fantastic legacy, and you have failed to deliver. You have squandered it in just three short years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThree years ago, our economy was growing at nearly 4 percent per annum, and we\u2019re now at almost half of that\u2014from tax and cost and regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e886d4ce191e48d98b6df73d67afe83b\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: How many more of your MPs are leaving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229df1c141adea459c8759495ac71df788\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: You want to talk about taxes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52aa99da79c4dbebc80669e298c803c\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: How many more MPs are leaving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224598868336074608ab9f975c4ba9f08c\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you want talk about why one of your MPs is being challenged, Mr Davis. Why is the guy over here who\u2019s only been in Parliament about five minutes going on the list because he can\u2019t hack it? I thought he was one of the tough guys, one of the good guys. This is a guy who wants to run these things when we know the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe have slipped down the GDP per capita table\u2014behind Chile, Hungary, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Spain and even Greece. [Interruption] Well, was it Winston Peters who talked about a Polish shipyard? Actually, I think it was his mentor, but that\u2019s where we\u2019re going under this Government. We are slipping behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI say again to Ron Mark that he may be laughing but New Zealanders aren\u2019t. On this side of the House, we have a plan to fix that. That involves getting more money in people\u2019s pockets, making a stronger economy, actually building the infrastructure. Let\u2019s actually do this, Stuart Nash\u2014and making communities safer. I see Stuart Nash over there, in a situation where right now around New Zealand\u2014in his electorate there\u2019s open gang warfare. What was it? Fifty gang members brawling a few weeks ago, Stuart Nash\u201450. AK-47s\u2014guns. How many were arrested? Four, I\u2019m told. Under Stuart Nash we have a tag and release policy that isn\u2019t going to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders deserve better than this Government. They deserve a strong economy, to build the roads, to do first-class infrastructure, to build the world-class schools. They deserve financial security so that they can look after their families in good and bad times. They deserve the ability to fill up their petrol tank and to have a better cost of living in this country. They deserve the environment that Jacinda Ardern and James Shaw talk so much about\u2014that\u2019s seen emissions go from going down under us to going up under them. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EKelvin Davis keeps interjecting, and he obviously didn\u2019t get the memo they sent around before about not doing that and sitting there with their head in the\u2014he never was the smart one in the class; let\u2019s be honest about that. But here\u2019s the thing. Some say\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9902f14c5441938c5a205a9814893f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to now ask both sides to settle down, and when I\u2019m on my feet, the member will sit. That mightn\u2019t have been in the best taste, but it does set the tone for the debate, and I\u2019m going to ask the member to continue. But some of those interjections are to stop as well. Not that member\u2014the ones in reaction to what the member said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215b54b552b804aa580b42c48feaebb17\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Some say that none of this is the Prime Minister\u2019s fault: the fact, actually, that Phil Twyford can\u2019t do any infrastructure; that Carmel Sepuloni had boasted about getting things under control, but we have 28,000 more people languishing on the dole; the fact that David Clark sends out the chief executive of health to front on coronavirus and he\u2019s missing in action. Somehow these aren\u2019t her problems. I say let\u2019s stop making excuses for Jacinda Ardern. Leaders lead. Actually, leaders get things done, and New Zealanders know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d423f1abab36453b957c4ecee81d4d66\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022607368f2e59249caa65afc7875eeee4a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: And she laughs about that. Where has her Minister been on coronavirus? Where has Phil Twyford been? Where has the Minister of Housing\u2014the new one, the next one\u2014been on these issues? They have been out for the count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe National Party has a plan. We take a very clear plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e59f5a631a4f0b84ffb4b0e41213c1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0712e8bb91e43cd9358780a1e1d9c72\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not a\u2014unlike hers, it\u2019s not a complicated plan. It doesn\u2019t involve fake news and graphs that are \u201Cbased on Treasury\u201D, but, actually, she\u2019s added to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210fd2c3218f04a91800de8e19fcd2946\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ede2f76301744a99232dd03e1fea41f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: They laugh and they laugh, because right at the start of this year Jacinda Ardern went out with a transparency tool. She said she was going to be the most transparent\u2014all of these things. Well, right now they\u2019re peddling paid targeted advertisements all over Facebook, begging New Zealanders for money for the Labour Party. And have they signed up to the transparency tool? No. Has Jacinda Ardern signed up to it for her personal page? Has the Labour Party? Has the Government? No, they haven\u2019t. That was the big song and dance, and they haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EYou see, on this side of the House, New Zealanders know\u2014like John Key did, like Bill English did, like I will\u2014that we will deliver a stronger economy. We know, in uncertain times, what to do. We\u2019ll provide the tax relief that\u2019s required, and we\u2019ve already started laying out that plan. We\u2019ll make sure there\u2019s less regulation for small businesses and we\u2019ll do the infrastructure that\u2019s required. That\u2019s the second part of this plan. We\u2019ll build some roads. We\u2019ll actually do this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d1f3b319b24b18b7d2a4e8d3932ee4\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: What plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244087cc68ee24ff68dab2351333053df\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Kelvin McAnulty, or whatever your name is; I don\u2019t know what your name is. We will do this by building the roads around New Zealand, and New Zealanders know that we will actually deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EStuart Nash and Andrew Little, we will make sure that New Zealanders have the safety and the security that they deserve. We understand that behind the statistics, where there are tens of thousands more victims of crime right now, where burglaries are going up, where sexual violence is going up, where robberies are going up, where gang members are up 30 percent exponentially in his own electorate\u2014we\u2019re not going to do tag and release. We\u2019re going to resource those police. Whether it\u2019s 1,400 or whatever the number is in reality, we are going to make sure that New Zealanders are safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a contrast in this Parliament between big talk, a lack of delivery, zero substance behind that party over three years, failing to deliver for New Zealand, and on this side a party that, when it says it will do something, delivers for New Zealanders, that is going to deliver that money in their pockets, that is going to deliver the infrastructure that\u2019s required, and that\u2019s going to deliver a safer New Zealand for all families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d71004ab1d31487caff1909976ddb620\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d71004ab1d31487caff1909976ddb620\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can\u2019t call the member yet. I\u2019m waiting for the Leader of the Opposition to comply with Standing Order 124. It\u2019s an issue I dealt with last year with him. [Leader of the Opposition tables amendment]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083ce0d31cba473b9936b09493e94c46\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What an amateur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022173c19428a4e4981b11da60eff02ea56\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s such a clever guy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e139e2b59a964d37aab4265fcdcd5298\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sit down. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a739e9968d0042b790b16a2931675a4b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76cd427122d42708cacb6e51d5c3682\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I want to indicate to the member that the Standing Orders are not petty. They\u2019re very definite. They\u2019re very clear. He had one chance last year and he made a mess of it, and he\u2019s done it again, and calling me petty for insisting that he comply with the Standing Orders is, as far as I\u2019m concerned, outrageous. The Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60923644fa2414bba57a1afc0d9440d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60923644fa2414bba57a1afc0d9440d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have not said that you are petty and I\u2019d ask, if you\u2019re going to make that sort of quite serious statement in this House, you back it up, because it is not true. The second point I\u2019d make is there may well be Standing Orders on these matters, but for the 12 years I have been in this Parliament, when things are tabled, when motions like that are put, there is customarily a period of time in which to put that before\u2014I had just finished my speech and if I wanted to take a little time and actually let Mr Peters start speaking and hand it over to the Clerk, I think that\u2019s incredibly reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227313d3258c15435893800a22bb39e6e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227313d3258c15435893800a22bb39e6e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. OK, well, the member might believe that, but he might believe a whole pile of other things. Any competent member knows\u2014any competent member knows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022517db96a37ae4f6b91c3d8f799cadebb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Starting off the year biased.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd519a45b884693acde8c480837a4f7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Nick Smith will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b018903eb14e47f082879828bd069a3b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab4654bdf9b40fda18822a2937d7636\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Any member with a knowledge of the Standing Orders\u2014and anyone who has observed this House\u2014knows that it is the practice to give to the whips a copy of an amendment which is given to the Clerk during the speech, because it has to be put by the Speaker at the end of the speech. The question is now that Mr Bridges\u2019 amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1924e488f56433f97096c30e3405cac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1924e488f56433f97096c30e3405cac\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Can I say that it\u2019s very difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow\u2019s ear. All the elocution lessons; all the lessons on how to stand, pull your chin in, speak deeply; all the lessons on how to look like a statesman have all been wasted. He took 17 minutes of a 20-minute speech to say that the National Party has a plan\u201417 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, can I say to the backbenchers\u2014I just saw a poll this morning. It\u2019s about the leaders of political parties in this country. One of those polls has the leader on the positive-negative equilibrium. I\u2019ll say it slowly for the big chap, because even he could do better than that. The woodwork teacher, I mean. The woodwork teacher could do better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a692a00830463bbde616e7f3ed1281\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Have a go at the tradies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221587302615974e43940cd4f683bbc691\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the tradies. He wouldn\u2019t know a hard day\u2019s work physically if he saw it, and it shows\u2014look at his soft hands. He doesn\u2019t know what work smells, tastes, and feels like, and it\u2019s demonstrable. Have a look in the mirror.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, back to my point. There was a poll and I saw it this morning of the leaders of political parties in this country. One party has a leader whose positive-negative rating is minus 32 percent. I don\u2019t care what the Australian Liberal Party told you, for the backbencher over there. You cannot make it from that percentage. It\u2019s all over, Rover. I have got great news, therefore, for Judith. Judith can do better than that; I\u2019ve seen that poll as well. They\u2019re in serious, serious trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut I want to begin by saying that the New Zealand First Party is a party where the differences in what you just heard are so obvious. Optimism versus pessimism. More progress versus back to the future. Investment versus divestment. Unity versus division. And what happened to the Christian upbringing? That was pretty nasty, wasn\u2019t it? I mean, I\u2019ve got to wonder which part of the sermon did he miss, because that was not nice. It was pretty basic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe begin the year in good heart, in good standing, positioned as the centre party of this country, ensuring that balanced common sense and good policy prevail over rampant ideology and bad ideas. Let me tell you, the barometric measure of that when it comes to politics is the latest attack on you-know-who. Has it got a familiar ring about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to sound like this because it might sound arrogant, but it\u2019s not my words. But when a true genius arrives in this world, you\u2019ll know him by this mark: all the dunces are a random confederacy against them. And I\u2019m looking at them right now, at this point of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re constructive, and throughout this term we\u2019ve looked at restoring capacity in our central social services, addressing the massive disparity between country and town, city and the provinces, laying foundations for a more just society and creating a comparatively robust economy for all to share in, not just for the few and the very few. Since then, growth is up; immigration is down. The minimum wage is up; unemployment is down. Infrastructure investment is up; business pessimism is down. A billion trees are growing up; the National Party support is crashing down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister just shared another poll that she\u2019s heard about with me. I can\u2019t tell you, of course, because it\u2019s confidential. But if I was over there, I\u2019d know the feeling. Three more years, possibly three more years, of going nowhere fast. That\u2019s why they\u2019re deserting in their droves. That\u2019s why they\u2019re retiring from safe seats. They\u2019re saying, \u201CI don\u2019t want to be here under this sort of leadership.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re ambitious to do more and achieve more. After all, we\u2019ve only just got started. New Zealand First stands for, in this election\u2014the best place to outline that is to tell you what we\u2019re not going to stand for. We\u2019re a party that will not tolerate letting this country fall into a pattern of decline and drift. The previous National Government was complacent, unconcerned, and unable to address growing inequality and obvious signs of social stress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister laid them out, one after the other, and there they are in massive denial, with incompetent, hopeless people like Nick Smith shouting at the top of his breath, looking like he might have a vein go in his neck. That\u2019s how angry he was. He\u2019s sort of the kind of guy born with a sense of noblesse oblige but without class. He thinks he\u2019s born to rule. Do they look like they\u2019re born to rule? Have a good, hard look. They haven\u2019t been in business themselves. The leader and deputy leader wouldn\u2019t know how to run the university tuck shop, have never ever run a business, and nor has their finance spokesman, Goldsmith. No\u2014he\u2019s spent his whole life writing about businessmen, but he\u2019s never been a businessman himself. And you know, you cannot learn on the job. Either you\u2019ve done it or you ain\u2019t, son\u2014and you ain\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262b3e1d67a98442d9ad6cb64d67cb1b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u201CSon\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d92923654b49dabd40a9183dc588eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014sorry. Well, you know, some people would be proud of that, but never mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, one forgets how distorted National on the economy was and how rundown the social services were, and they had one plan and one plan alone: open the floodgates of immigration\u2014and that\u2019s a fact. Between the 1990s and the 2000s, immigration was around 12,000 per annum, and then, under National after 2014, it massively exploded to 38,300. In the year after\u20142015\u2014it was 58,300. In the year after that, it was 69,100, and by 2017, it was 72,300. They only had one part of the economic plan: just explode the population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, everybody in Auckland knows what that meant, and everybody around the country knows what that meant: house prices going through the roof, a lack of housing, and a massive demand for schools, hospitals, and infrastructure. The stress was minus, and immigration explains the housing market distortion and crippling infrastructure deficit. Health, education, social services were run down. Evidence of neglect was everywhere, from people sleeping in cars to rotten walls in hospitals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe other day, I picked up the Whang\u0101rei Advocate, and there was an advertisement from Mr Reti on the highway to Marsden Point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f2b1ec31e914e7e94766e9911006767\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Reti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7f47368ce64d559cc0a1d1e64b2284\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Reti had an advertisement saying that it had been reinstated. Dr Reti, please tell us how many dollars were set aside by the National Party with respect to Marsden Point? Mr Reti, put your hand up if $1 was assigned to Marsden Point to Whang\u0101rei\u2014please put your hand up. You see what I mean? He can\u2019t tell a lie\u2014I admire him. He\u2019s an honest man. But don\u2019t have your party put that crap out and think you\u2019re going to get away with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe same thing when it comes to, for example, north of Tauranga. There\u2019s the member for Tauranga talking about \u014Cmokoroa being promised, and all the way to Katikati\u2014not \u201CCatty-catty\u201D, as he said; Katikati\u2014and Mr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bed0dd48f3469ab1c1bb79492be0ef\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: The Te Reo renaissance man, now\u2014are you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3b45ecd60d49eba45753d01547cb7e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: OK, Mr Bridges, put your hand up if $1 was assigned by you as a transport Minister for that road. He can\u2019t tell a lie, either. I hope some people in the media are watching, because now we\u2019re having a confessional. We\u2019re having an admission. We\u2019re getting it out of him, but, boy, how hard it\u2019s been, and why do I have to do the job that they should be doing? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhere was the money? Well, it was never there, but he got up and said it. He read a list out today of what they had promised, excepting\u2014as Grant Robertson will tell you, and as Mr Twyford will tell you\u2014there was no money assigned to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to defence, they had a $20 billion plan with not $1 assigned to it. Along comes Ron Mark and, in very difficult and trying circumstances with the Minister of Finance, he starts getting the funding that defence desperately needs. All over the country and all over the Pacific, our troops are helping this country\u2019s image in essential humanitarian work. It\u2019s multifaceted, but it\u2019s this Government that\u2019s doing it, much to the surprise of the Defence Force. They have always believed that National was for them, excepting they never were when it came to finding the money that really mattered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81ab8abc6d944c2946bf4cd7db570d1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she not listening? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253782905cc8141759e5c7f2c5208cca4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Prime Minister\u2019s listening, all right, because I shared this speech with her before I started it. We\u2019re a Government of cooperation\u2014in fact, she could have written it herself. Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhen I was the Acting Prime Minister, I can tell you what happened one day. I\u2019ll never forget it because I was absolutely shocked, because in the room came a group of civil servants to tell me that the Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunamis (DART) buoy programme\u2014which for decades we\u2019ve been financing to warn us if a tsunami was coming our way, and our Pacific neighbours as well\u2014had all been allowed to run down, and the last of them was on the blink. This previous Government\u2014if you want to look at any evidence of how shocking and neglectful they were, they were prepared to see the tsunami come down, sweep through the Pacific islands, and take the top of the North Island out, with no way of warning ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI stood there and I could not believe it, and my colleagues know what happened. They are sitting here now. We said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to get on to this. We\u2019re not going to lose one day. We\u2019re going to rebuild these DART buoys.\u201D, and last year, before Christmas, five were sent to the Pacific, and at the end of the year, 15 will be in place. That\u2019s the difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere is nobody on that backbench who was told that\u2014that we could have had circumstances where, when the media asked, \u201CWhat happened here?\u201D, we would have found that the so-called Government of Gerry Brownlee and Mr Bridges had allowed the whole warning system for the Pacific and ourselves to lapse and rot and decay. You don\u2019t need to know any more about Government or policies but to know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMore importantly, the Australians were shocked and said, \u201CWe\u2019ll help out.\u201D I spoke to the United States. They said, \u201CWe\u2019ll help, as well.\u201D But they could not believe that the very people who had put that in place\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270926c1a35bd4f8ea82d5b98b0a9fad7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, that part\u2019s not true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210b63afa21a2426886a3f18a7a89a6b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014under former, responsible Governments had allowed it to happen. Mr Brownlee is still fully unaware of what happened. But, you know, if you\u2019re not spending all your time focusing on politics and other things, then you can possibly\u2014possibly\u2014lose the plot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say one thing: the National Party today\u2014and its image is very clear\u2014is a party with a small \u201Cn\u201D. It\u2019s not a centre party any more. It is still in the throes of \u201CRuthanomics\u201D, even though that was a disaster that took the National Party, in the space of three years, from the biggest majority ever to a hung Parliament\u2014in three years flat. They still hanker for that. They\u2019ve still got control of the National Party, and, as for the rest of the backbenchers, they\u2019ve got no influence whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHere we\u2019ve got Mr Goldsmith. You know what his experience is: he\u2019s looking to cut anything and everything. He\u2019s spent every time on massive, essential investments in provincial New Zealand scoffing at every idea\u2014parked up in Epsom. He\u2019s notorious, of course, because he\u2019s the only politician in the whole Western World that is remembered for pulling his hoardings down\u2014not for putting his hoardings up; pulling them down. We have never seen that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a04f8e0d34c4695b31217e74b4769b0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s Northland going? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ce9fb3c0a94ef5b8a94c5fe6915554\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014anywhere in the Western World, and now here\u2019s the political cuckold from Epsom shouting out now. You know who that is, don\u2019t you? The one who\u2019s looking for a second tango partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn fact, I saw the other night on TV him dancing, again\u2014it was on the weekend show\u2014and I had a good, hard look at myself and I thought, \u201CYou know, this cannot surely be\u2014that we in New Zealand have a Parliament where people are so desperate for publicity they\u2019re prepared to do that.\u201D They pick these special moments on national TV to humiliate themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBut, you know, can you remember the ACT Party\u2019s leadership? I do. Remember who the first one was? Douglas, and then Prebble, then Hide, then White\u2014was it? And who else\u2014somebody in between? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279fdb97e9e36446299fb7134ec95f8b0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Brash. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951cb311d67f401e87dfca7013be20c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Don Brash\u2014sorry. Oh, Don Brash, yes. Don Brash, and now Seymour. Now look, this is a case of serious, mortal mental deficiency\u2014it shows. Seven leaders\u2014seven\u2014and the present one\u2019s only there now because there\u2019s not a second vote. That\u2019s what he\u2019s doing there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBy the way, when you say something like you said the other day, if I thought he had a cent, I\u2019d sue him. But he said on TV something that\u2019s defamatory. If I thought he had any money or he had a sense of being able to pay me, I\u2019d sue him, but I\u2019m not going to waste all my money to get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224635f3021a4047e196dd17403014d7db\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Talk\u2019s cheap, sweetheart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba3e544e75945718a8e6ccdfdde0b46\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Talk\u2019s not cheap\u2014that member\u2019s going to find out how expensive it is. This is a member that\u2019s all over a tape recording of illicit funding of the National Party. The tape recording\u2019s going to be disclosed in this Parliament shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e19014dd18a429fb3932d72818a9d6c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Run us through the defamation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efdd52e7d37d408a8efdc30c47882793\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: And he\u2019s shouting out that he\u2019s innocent. Is it somebody else\u2019s voice? Is it somebody else\u2019s voice? Mr Bridges, when the voice is played, will it be Mr Bridges\u2019 voice or someone else\u2019s? Because if it\u2019s his voice, then he\u2019s deeply implicated. He gave the directions. No wonder he said he wanted to move on\u2014he wanted to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that recently the Fitch Ratings agency said that New Zealand had sound fiscal management, low and declining debt in relation to GDP, and they said that this would enhance the country\u2019s resilience to economic and financial shocks. The reality is that we face difficult times that I have forecast in the past. I\u2019m not trying to be wise before the event, but if you look at the level of bank indebtedness around the world and the amount of money that\u2019s been given to cheap interest, then you\u2019ve got to ask yourself: when does the ferryman have to be paid? When will the day of reckoning be? So for this Government to be positioning itself in preparation for these sorts of potential financial difficulties is a very, very sound measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EFor all those who will say otherwise, bear this in mind: when this shock happens, we will be affected; just like we are with coronavirus as we speak, where it will have a 2 percent effect\u2014it looks like\u2014on the Chinese economy. There are going to be international ramifications. The issue is: have we done all that we can to ensure that we\u2019ve protected and shielded our people from those consequences? And I believe we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re looking at ways to support small and medium businesses, and in that regard, the following principles are guiding our policy development: the ease of understanding and compliance, tax efficiency, practical tax relief that will have a real impact on economic growth, innovation, and productivity. We\u2019re going, compared to other similar economies, very, very, well. But we could do and can do a whole lot better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, do you remember the National Party and its rail privatisation programme? Well, I do. In 1993, they flogged it off to their friends. Then they recapitalised it and the shares went up to $9.34, and after they\u2019d recapitalised it and gouged it, the shares went down to 28c. That\u2019s their record on rail. So then the Labour Party bought it back, having realised that this wasn\u2019t a very wise thing to do, and put it back together again. National gets back in and deliberately set out to run it into the ground again\u2014again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf91ce780df84bfc918a8347652b511d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d2371581b174f0abb6fa84dfa35bc9d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I know it\u2019s rubbish, and that\u2019s your specialty. Unbelievable. What a sucker, eh? Ha, ha! What a sucker. I want to focus on my speech; otherwise I\u2019d have a field day. It\u2019s like having a duel of wits with an unarmed opponent, mate. And I don\u2019t like being unfair to people, I\u2019m a nice guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EBack to my point. Can I just say that the big thing that\u2019s going to happen this year\u2014it\u2019s important for New Zealanders to recognise this\u2014is that we need a dialogue with the New Zealand people about our future population policy because the forecast of New Zealand\u2019s population by 2050 has got us there already. All the forecasts said that where New Zealand would be in 2050 is today\u2019s population, and no one has had a discussion with any New Zealanders at all and the consequences are huge. We can see the straining and suffering out there, where we\u2019ve got Third World problems that we have allowed to be created, because we haven\u2019t had a focused, smart policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhere are they all going to? Mainly to Auckland. All around the provinces we need workers. So we need a focused immigration policy that looks at making sure the provinces get their fair share of overseas expertise as well. Meanwhile out in the provinces, there\u2019s a different dichotomy of ageing, where they are older than in the big cities with so much immigration. What that means in the long run is that they\u2019ll be gouged out, as well, until the services all go. We need to look after New Zealand from Invercargill to Kait\u0101ia, and to understand this more than anything else: that it\u2019s the riches of the provinces that keep this country going, that you can burn down our cities but the provinces will build them up, but you burn down the provinces and you\u2019re gone. One party understands that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EI want to tell people out in provincial New Zealand that they\u2019ve got all these members of Parliament from the National Party from the provinces\u2014they\u2019re lions in the electorate and lambs in the caucus. They have never defended the interests of the provinces when it comes to exporters and farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ELook, let me say\u2014because I was a member of the National Party once\u2014if your choice as a young person is to join the National Party because you\u2019re trying to find a wife or husband, there are better places to go\u2014there are better places to go for real company. The problem is that once they get here, the big banks get to them and they stop speaking for the provinces. For example, when was the last time Sarah Dowie made a speech about Invercargill? When was the last time that Mr McKelvie made a speech about the provinces? When was the last time anybody in the countryside from the National Party got up and told the world what the country needed? Now, you know, it\u2019s deafening\u2014they can\u2019t tell me one example. Well, who was the last one that made a speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnd please don\u2019t tell me the guy from the prosecution office from Tauranga, even though he didn\u2019t have a warrant. Please don\u2019t say he speaks for the country. Oh yes, it sounds good on the CV; he used to be a prosecutor, he says\u2014he used to be a Crown prosecutor. Mr Bridges, did you have a warrant? No, again exposed. It\u2019s like taking candy off a baby, isn\u2019t it? Just answer the question. Oh, Judith knows, because Judith has a real background in law; I do respect that. But when it comes to the man with all the teeth in Tauranga: no go, no show. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7040b10cfb44c3f84d2e231ed8d9949\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7040b10cfb44c3f84d2e231ed8d9949\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Before I turn my attention to the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, I just want to take a moment to draw this House\u2019s attention, and our memory, to the catastrophic fires that occurred in Australia over the summer, many of which are still burning now. I think it\u2019s pretty easy amongst all the hurly-burly of our election year to forget the crises that have occurred to our nearest neighbour. There was, and has been, extraordinary loss of wildlife, of human life, of forestry, and of property. The areas that were burned by the fires, if that had occurred here in New Zealand, would have stretched from Cape Reinga in the North to Rotorua and burned everything in between. I just think if we could take a moment to just acknowledge the scale of what has happened in Australia, because this House has not yet had an opportunity to reflect or acknowledge the catastrophe that has befallen Australia, and so I just wanted to take this moment to do so before we begin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESitting and listening to the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, I felt enormously proud of everything that this Government has done, is doing, and is going to do to make this country even better and to ensure that it is a great place to live for all of us, and not just all of us now, but for generations to come. So it is with great pleasure that I do stand on behalf of the Green Party to support the Prime Minister\u2019s motion and her statement that this House has confidence in this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do hope that the politics of this place\u2014and we have seen that amplified already by the proximity of the election, even though it is still something like eight months away\u2014won\u2019t distract us from the fact that we still have some big decisions to make that will have a profound effect on the lives of New Zealanders. Whether it is to ensure that people have warm and safe houses, or whether it\u2019s ending child poverty, or supporting young people who are going through a rough time, it is within these four walls that we can make and do make a huge difference to people\u2019s lives. Some of us have got different ideas about how to do that than others, but either way, I think all of us in this House should remember\u2014and with humility\u2014that it is a responsibility that we walk into every time we walk into this Chamber, for this place, it doesn\u2019t belong to us, to the 120 members of this Parliament; it belongs to the people of Aotearoa New Zealand. It belongs to people who tonight will be sitting around the dinner table worrying about how to pay the bills. It\u2019ll be the people who are working tirelessly to improve our communities; people up and down the country who are starting and running businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIn the next eight months, we will be asking those people, the people who put us here, to hold us to account for what we have done. We too in the Greens will ask them to support the ideas that we have about where to go next. Most of these New Zealanders, I\u2019m sure, want a Government that will not just confront the challenges that we face at the urgency and the scale that that requires, but actually solve those challenges; not just acknowledge that there is a problem, but actually deal with it\u2014creating a better future for their kids and for their grandkids; a thriving natural world; a cleaner, greener, and safer community in every part of the country; a zero-carbon economy; and a world where every New Zealander can earn not just enough to meet their basic living costs but to enjoy those things that many of us, and certainly all of us in this Chamber, take for granted, like time away with the wh\u0101nau or a treat at the weekends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, one term of Government was never going to be enough to fix everything that needed to be fixed, but we have made an incredible start, and New Zealanders know it. Nine years of a National-led Government demanded it. Look back at that nine-year period, and what most people will see is the familiar pattern of neglect that accompanies every National Government\u2014not just this last one, but the one before that and the one before that. Look back on that nine-year period that most people will see as that familiar pattern of neglect. They\u2019ll see families that are struggling to make ends meet, forced to make impossible choices between heating their home or putting food on the table. They\u2019ll see polluted rivers and a nearly cataclysmic absence of the native creatures that we know should inhabit our forests and our land; a complete absence of meaningful action to tackle the climate crisis. That\u2019s what they will look back on on those last nine years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOn that last point, Mr Speaker, you well know that there are kids growing up today who are deeply worried about the future that they will inherit as climate change impacts their lives. It\u2019s hardly surprising, when you consider that every year that they have been alive has been the hottest on record\u2014every year for teenagers growing up today has been the hottest on record. As they think about their future, they\u2019re looking at us and wondering whether we have the courage to step up. They want to know if we will take the action to create that better and cleaner world for them and their families, or what they will inherit from us for their children. I know what I want to be able to say to them. Climate change, it is not just another subject; it is a prism through which young people see the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EYet, in their term of Government, National squandered nearly a decade of opportunity to do something about it, to create a better future. They gave us no reason to hope. They eroded any promise of change. They became a risk to our shared future. That is not just negligent; that is unforgivable. So here, two years into what we will hope will be a very long period of Opposition for them, instead of using that time to think up ideas about how to undo the damage that they did, the only thing that they have managed to prioritise is an ugly politics of fear and misinformation and resentment. As we get closer to the election\u2014we\u2019re eight months out, and you\u2019ve got to remember what you just saw from the Leader of the Opposition; that\u2019s going to get worse\u2014the National Party will pit country against town. They will promise simple fixes to complex solutions. In fact, Mr Bridges even said in his speech, \u201CIt\u2019s simple. Just build more roads.\u201D\u2014the answer to every single question, every single challenge. \u201CMore roads\u201D is the answer to every question that they have. Worst of all, they deny their responsibility for creating the very problems that they say that they want to solve. We will not adopt those tactics. We will not say just whatever comes into our heads because we think it might work. We will not make up stuff about the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change, and we will not exploit people\u2019s genuine concerns for political gain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe will win by talking to New Zealanders about the type of future that they want and the ideas that we have about how to get there. And we will win because of our track record in Government, regardless of anything that they say. More than two years ago, the Green Party members of Parliament elected to take seats in this place helped to create a Government that is committed to reversing the negligence of nine years of the previous National administration. We made a promise to Aotearoa that we would not shy away from the future that demanded us but work to shape it. And we here today have a track record of huge progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIn our first two years, we have taken more action on climate change than the last 30 years of Governments combined: the zero carbon Act, the Climate Change Commission, the emissions trading scheme reforms, the first set of emissions budgets, the billions of dollars that we are investing in rail and light rail and buses and walking and cycling infrastructure, the billion trees programme, the end of offshore oil and gas exploration, electrifying the public service car fleet, companies reporting to their shareholders and State services organisations reporting to their Ministers on their climate-related risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI know\u2014I know that there will be people out there who say we\u2019ve not gone far enough. But no one should ever think\u2014no one should ever think\u2014that the hard work is not worth it because we haven\u2019t got everything that we want. You try telling that to Marama Davidson, who has worked so hard to ensure that our loved ones, our friends and our wh\u0101nau have warm, safe, and dry houses in which to live. Or tell that to Eugenie Sage, who has delivered the largest boost to conservation funding since the Department of Conservation was founded in the 1980s. Barely a week goes by when there isn\u2019t some more good news about our native wildlife, and, thanks in no small part to her efforts, most people are shopping with their own bags rather than suffocating single-use plastic that we came to rely on. Or tell that to Julie Anne Genter, who has led a massive reprioritisation of transport spending to give people better, cleaner, and safer options for getting around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd let me say this about the Advertising Standards Authority finding on the National Party, who found yesterday that the National Party thinks that they cannot hold this Government to account without lying about what it is that we\u2019re doing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255aad534cef14a4c9b31b4f56e2508f4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251d225cd78f4d978b30697718cbaa35\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon, Mr Speaker. Try telling Jan Logie that the work to reform the way that we manage and reduce sexual and domestic violence has not been worth it. Or tell Gareth Hughes, who has changed the future direction of this country by working successfully to end offshore oil and gas permits that that hasn\u2019t been worth it. Or Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who has done so much to ensure that young people have the support that they need when they need it to live fulfilling lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s work that serves to remind us that we are stronger when we have each other\u2019s backs, when we\u2019re looking out for one another, when we\u2019re giving support that makes sense to the people who are needing it. Tell that to Golriz Ghahraman, who has championed changes to our democracy that build trust and make us more accountable to the people who put us here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWe have done all of this. We have done all of this and so much more with just eight members of Parliament. Imagine what we could do with just a few more. There will never be a moment that we can say that we are done or that we have won. Lasting change demands that we keep working every single day further and faster towards a future where all New Zealanders have everything that they need to lead fulfilling and meaningful and prosperous lives, where everything from our morning coffee, to travelling to and from work, to warming our homes is powered by clean, renewable energy; where our precious plants and our animals are protected and our wild places are looked after for future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis Government of three parties has shown how we can work through our differences and find common ground that benefits all New Zealanders. Who will be around the table for those discussions after the election is a matter for New Zealanders to decide. But for those who say they want us to do more, I say, get involved. Get involved\u2014get involved in the issues that are affecting your communities and our nation, whether that\u2019s online or at a neighbourhood meeting, whether that\u2019s conversations with your friends and your family, talk about your ideas for solving the issues that matter to you. Demand more of us. Knock on some doors. You never know, that small action that you take might change somebody\u2019s mind. That might change the political environment in which the next Government has no option but to move further and faster towards that future that we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWith two years at the heart of Government, the Green Party\u2019s first-ever time in Government, we have done a huge amount to create a better future for our kids and our grandchildren. But what we do next\u2014what we do next\u2014is where you will find our better future: an Aotearoa defined by its leadership on climate change, by fairness and equality, and a thriving natural environment. Making this happen is the only way that we can keep our promise to future generations that we will leave behind a world that is better off for what we did. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbf7acc1979a456a801c87ed75adaa3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbf7acc1979a456a801c87ed75adaa3f\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in opposition to the Prime Minister\u2019s motion and with some support for the National leader\u2019s amendments that you\u2019ve finally received on the Table and with a few additional comments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis year, New Zealand faces a choice between the politics of gesture and the best political marketer in the world, who is also the world\u2019s worst policy deliverer. A choice between a speech which delivered no substance whatsoever\u2014there were lots of intentions. You have to hand it to the Prime Minister for outlining the intentions\u2014everyone wants a better world\u2014but not once did she describe how it would be delivered. And as for the Deputy Prime Minister\u2014for now\u2014well, let me give a bit of an education in some of the basic shapes. [Holds up pictures] This is a pentagon. This is a hexagon. This is an octagon. And this is a \u201Cshould-be-gone\u201D. And there\u2019s so many reasons why he should be gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHe says, \u201COh, I\u2019d sue, but you don\u2019t have any money.\u201D Here\u2019s the truth: the truth is that it\u2019s all gone wrong. The facts are out there. People know what\u2019s been going on. He can bluff and he can bluster, and he can huff and puff and threaten to blow our house down, but the truth is going to come out, and it\u2019s going to finish a career. The tragedy of that career being finished is this: people are going to sit down and try and write the legacy of Winston Peters. They\u2019ll try and compare it to the legacy of, perhaps, Mike Moore, who changed this country for the better for ever. As they sit and they try to describe what Winston Peters has achieved in 40 years, they will find they have nothing to write. What a shame\u2014what a shame. But, sadly, it is still true that he is taking the shape of a \u201Cshould-be-gone\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis Government is so filled with good intentions, and yet none of them work. Most of them, it turns out, actually, are a failure. The Prime Minister, as has been noted, didn\u2019t talk about KiwiBuild. I think she talked about the Child Poverty Reduction Act. What has it done? It\u2019s seen child poverty go up\u2014as if passing a law to measure child poverty was actually going to reduce it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen intrusive market studies into whole sectors, such as petrol retailing, and get this: the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs says that they\u2019re going to bring down the price of petrol 32c by attacking the cut that petrol companies take. Well, the petrol companies only take 25c a litre, so can the Minister of commerce\u2014you know, I\u2019ve done geometry for the Deputy Prime Minister; maybe the Minister of commerce needs to learn basic arithmetic. You can\u2019t cut the price of petrol 32c by reducing the petrol company\u2019s cut when the petrol company only takes 25c. That\u2019s the problem in a nutshell with this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen they banned plastic bags to reduce the amount of plastic in the ocean. Well, there\u2019re two problems with that. I actually asked the Government how much of the plastic from the ocean comes from plastic bags in New Zealand. Do you know how much it was? No? Neither do they. The Government can\u2019t tell you how big the problem is they were trying to solve. So they\u2019ve got us all walking out of the supermarket like this [Mimes holding groceries] or buying even thicker bags with more plastic to solve a problem they don\u2019t even know exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI could go on and on talking about ineffectual policies that this Government has put in place. Here\u2019s one: we have a real problem in this country with our firearm laws. We know this because an Australian weirdo\u2014and, frankly, as it turns out, one of the most evil people to set foot on our shores\u2014is able to get off the plane. He\u2019s a single male. He lives alone. He\u2019s just got here. He gets a licence. He gets an AR-15. The police sign off on 3,000 rounds of ammunition. No alarm bells were rung. No one thought, \u201CGee, this is a bit of a problem.\u201D What\u2019s the Government done? They haven\u2019t solved any of those problems. What they have done is they\u2019ve gone and isolated and undignified and collectively punished a quarter of a million New Zealanders who did nothing wrong. How\u2019s that for a Government of inclusion and kindness? It\u2019s another damaging policy that is ineffectual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then the Prime Minister had the temerity to say\u2014and I guess if you\u2019re 100 percent marketing-led you can say these things regardless of their veracity\u2014that this is a Government of infrastructure. I mean, how does a Government of infrastructure spend two years trying to work out which projects they\u2019re ideologically opposed to and then try to take the credit for building infrastructure that could have been started two years ago? If that\u2019s a Government of infrastructure, then I\u2019d hate to see one that actually does things on time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENot only are their policies ineffective at making New Zealand a better place; they\u2019re actually damaging. This Government sees every aspect of public policy through the lens of class warfare. Employers are people who save up, invest capital, have ideas, and attract customers so they can give someone a job. I think that\u2019s pretty cool. I think that\u2019s admirable. Not this Government. At every step of the way\u2014minimum wage increases, national awards under the new name of fair pay agreements, new regulations on every aspect of employment\u2014they actually make it harder for people to employ. They actually make it harder for people to get jobs. That\u2019s why you\u2019ve got record terms of trade and the welfare roll is going up. Only this Government could manage those two things simultaneously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ETake landlords. Landlords are people who save up, invest, manage property, and, for a weekly fee\u2014which is often less than the mortgage on the property\u2014provide accommodation. I think it\u2019s a wonderful service. I think they\u2019re great people. Not this Government. Constantly, such people find themselves under attack, with more and more rules and regulations that make it harder to do their job. The irony of ironies is that not only is it bad for the landlords but, because landlords and tenants have a symbiotic relationship, this Government manages to hurt the exact people it\u2019s trying to help. Almost everything they do harms the people they\u2019re trying to help and defeats the purpose they\u2019re trying to achieve, because they just don\u2019t get basic economics, basic logic, and the basic ways that this society works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis country deserves better. This country deserves a society that works because it gets better policies that actually deliver the intentions, not just serve as background to an unending marketing campaign by the Prime Minister, who\u2014I\u2019ll give it to her\u2014is the best marketer in world politics but the worst public policy deliverer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ELet me say finally, in relation to our Parliament, if there\u2019s one thing we can all be proud of and agree on, it\u2019s that we have been enormously fortunate to inherit parliamentary democracy. There is a long history where, gradually, power shifted from the monarch to the people, who send representatives to the capital city to speak for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s because of the importance of that job\u2014holding the Crown to account\u2014that we have such great privileges. Traditionally, Mr Speaker, it has been the person in your role who is the prime defender of that tradition. Early Speakers literally lost their heads for speaking up for and defending the rights of parliamentarians versus the Crown. Mr Speaker, I watched your ruling on the Leader of the Opposition, and I observed the way that you treated me through question time towards the end of last year. I\u2019d put it to you that, as the person with the privilege of upholding the parliamentary tradition, you, for now, have all the power except for one, which is to choose how others will judge you as you leave this place in future. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdd9a9d966e049ce921c5d68856a8a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdd9a9d966e049ce921c5d68856a8a7f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Following agreement at the Business Committee, the debate on the Prime Minister\u2019s statement will now be adjourned and oral questions held. The debate is adjourned and set down for resumption next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220da6919aa5464c0f90c95655973ae428\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df610a64a15b49d398b5510a78ec92c6\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 Outbreak\u2014New Zealand Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022da5a027aef4b4425a61d155c1a53a2ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da5a027aef4b4425a61d155c1a53a2ff\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement in accordance with Standing Order 355 about the novel coronavirus. The novel coronavirus, recently named as COVID-19, was first reported to the World Health Organization on 31 December. As members will be aware, since that time there have been more than 43,000 cases and over 1,000 deaths\u2014the vast majority within China. In New Zealand, we have not yet had a confirmed case but we are taking the threat very seriously and we are well prepared. Our comprehensive health response began on 6 January when the Ministry of Health first sent out advice to DHBs and primary care about the virus. Arrangements were quickly made to ensure that health advice was being provided at the border in a range of languages, including traditional and simplified Chinese.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m advised that providing clear health advice remains our best protection against the spread of the coronavirus, and that remains a key part of our ongoing response to this issue. An incident control team was set up within the ministry in the week of 20 January. That same week, on 24 January, the Government\u2019s interagency pandemic group met as a precaution. At all times our response to the coronavirus has been informed by the best available public health advice from doctors and clinical experts. That advice and our response are under constant review to ensure we continue to follow best practice and work closely with our international partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBased on expert public health advice, on 27 January we deployed public health nurses at Christchurch and Auckland international airports to meet all flights from mainland China, to provide advice and check anyone displaying symptoms. Those measures are ongoing. On 28 January, Cabinet met for the first time this year and made the novel coronavirus a notifiable disease under the Health Act\u2014that means we have all the appropriate public health powers in place to deal with the COVID-19 if and when it arrives in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThat same day the Ministry of Health activated the National Health Coordination Centre, which is operating seven days a week to monitor the situation and which provides updated advice on a daily basis. Our response to the coronavirus has been measured and responsive. As the number of cases has increased and disease has spread, we have been constantly reviewing our position to ensure we are doing what is required to keep New Zealanders safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOn Monday, 3 February the Government introduced travel restrictions that prevent anyone other than New Zealand citizens or permanent residents who have been in China in the last 14 days from entering New Zealand. This step was not taken lightly but followed updated health advice and was in step with Australia, the US, and several other countries\u2014more have since followed suit. I would note that our border restrictions complement the actions taken by the Chinese Government to contain this virus within its borders. No country has taken stricter measures at their border than China itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAll New Zealanders who have been in China in the last 14 days and have returned home since the travel restrictions were introduced have been asked to go into self-isolation for 14 days, which is believed to be longer than the incubation period of this virus. Previous experience suggests that self-isolation compliance rates will be high, as people are conscious of the risks that infectious diseases pose to their family, wh\u0101nau, and community. For example, during the 2009 influenza pandemic there were high rates of compliance in the initial weeks of the event and the ministry did not need to use any powers to ensure self-isolation. So far more than 1,800 people have self-registered with Healthline about their isolation. Healthline staff are keeping in regular contact with those people to provide them advice and support and to check on their welfare. Customs and the Ministry of Health are also sharing data to enable Healthline to proactively contact anyone who has returned from China but has yet to register with Healthline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMembers will also be aware that the Government arranged an evacuation flight for New Zealanders and Pacific Island citizens in the city of Wuhan: 157 people remain in isolation at the military facility at Whangapar\u0101oa. They are receiving regular health checks, and if anyone displays any symptoms, no matter how mild, they are being tested for coronavirus. To date, no one has tested positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is well placed to respond to emerging infectious diseases, we have a strong public health service and a longstanding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224a958d92c2584be2b7a331f67956d8e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a958d92c2584be2b7a331f67956d8e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4ea22d4aadc4dca90db4e13e2e3dd70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4ea22d4aadc4dca90db4e13e2e3dd70\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on this matter, given its significance for New Zealand and globally, and also given the significant uncertainty there is in relation to this matter. I want to say from the outset, on the coronavirus, that the Opposition stand ready to collaborate and to work with the Government on this matter of great importance, in every facet of it. I myself have been thinking about it from very early on, when I heard about it in China, and making sure every single day I understand what is happening on it. Indeed, that\u2019s partly why my health spokesperson was very quick to call for actions in this area, and there\u2019s been some criticism of that, but I make no apology on an issue of this significance for the Opposition and National Party to hold the Government to account on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI regret that at every single step of the way, my clear view is that the Government has done too little, too late. We\u2019ve had comprehensive analysis conducted on where the United Kingdom, Australia, and the United States have been, and at every step, as they have done things, we have been several days behind them. I could run through that in some detail, but I simply want to touch on screening, and the many examples I\u2019ve been told about from members of my caucus, from members of the public who\u2019ve spoken to me about this issue. In theory, there is screening happening now in New Zealand from affected flights coming to New Zealand. This weekend, for example\u2014and it is the only one I will give\u2014I talked to a constituent of mine on the telephone who in fact lives very close to where I live. His clear view, bringing his family back from a neighbouring province and with great concerns about the effect of this on them, was that there was nothing that happened as they came through New Zealand\u2014no screening, no checks, no nothing. What is also true is that as I rang him, because he\u2019d contacted my office and I think I\u2019ve met him before, he was out in self-isolation in a public space where many other people were, and he\u2019d made quite clear that no one has contacted him. He has had nothing happen in relation to that \u201Cself-isolation\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI suggest that, actually, if we don\u2019t see harm in New Zealand, it will be much more by good luck than by good management and good practice by the Government. I regret to say I don\u2019t believe the Minister of Health is leading on this issue in any way, shape, or form. He waited for the first Cabinet to make preliminary decisions on this matter when a week earlier than that, decisions should have been made on this incredibly significant issue. I believe we must be more proactive, more precautionary, in the way we handle this issue of coronavirus. The Minister said that the Government, the Ministry of Health, has been measured. I regret to say I think what he really means is \u201Claid-back\u201D. Kiwis are laid-back, but on an issue like this, that is not good enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI want to record the Chinese community\u2019s very clear outpouring of views and concerns in relation to this throughout New Zealand. They\u2019ve been strong, they have been forthright, and, as I say, they have been concerned\u2014deeply concerned\u2014about the lack of measures, the lateness of the measures, in relation to these matters. I record as well my view, and, I\u2019m sure, a view that the House agrees with, that there is absolutely no room for racism in this country on this issue in relation to our Chinese community, who are valued members of our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI also want to make this final point that is wider than health when it comes to coronavirus: it is quite clear on the reports that are out in international media about a very significant shutdown throughout China of manufacturing and industry. There is undoubtedly an economic effect that will hit and is hitting this country. Even today, were this issue to resolve itself, it will not be insignificant. I look forward to hearing very clearly from the Government what their economic strategy in relation to this issue\u2014that is a health issue but is also much wider and affects our economy\u2014is and will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1457529c373418384ed4b8cbab47400\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1457529c373418384ed4b8cbab47400\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Just to respond to a few of the member Simon Bridges\u2019 points, first of all, I would stress that all decisions that have been taken in response to the coronavirus have been taken with the public health of New Zealanders and the public safety of New Zealanders as our primary concern. All decisions taken have been informed by the science. The advice that we have received from doctors and clinical experts has informed every step that we have taken, and you will see that we have moved very quickly after Australia to close our borders upon reviewing the evidence and receiving the advice from the experts. To date, I stress in this House\u2014and members will know this\u2014that we have not had a single case of the coronavirus in New Zealand and we have indeed only had one case that could even have been suspected to have met the test of the virus, and that proved to be negative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe make no apology, though, for taking a precautionary approach and making sure that, for example, we had full Cabinet consideration of the categorising of the disease. We have the health pathways in place. The doctors were ready to refer. The powers that we now have in place can be invoked at any time, but historically, in situations like this, they have not been required, because New Zealanders understand the importance of taking care of their friends and family and those that are around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIn closing, I would say that we will continue to review the situation. The member at one point says we should move faster and more stringently; at the other, he acknowledges that there are economic effects of this virus around the world. We are reviewing the situation because we do not want this situation to be in place any longer than is necessary for the public health and safety of New Zealanders. We are a trading nation, and we are concerned to ensure that we are doing the right thing for the health of our people, and we will also look to the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002229f21ee55a744afcadc29359acb966b3\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002238a25c6150d84c61928366441b4ea0ef\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228a03c739f4ee4e6ca806edaf107a53e7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00229f42bb61d8504e05b375fc699d52f414\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f42bb61d8504e05b375fc699d52f414\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Salvation Army\u2019s State of the Nation Report, which said that \u201Cdespite some significant progress, much more needs to be done to ensure the growing prosperity of our economy is shared more fairly\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226f684267e17542f18b646aef891aba7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f684267e17542f18b646aef891aba7c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with the Salvation Army report when it says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThis report points to significant progress, including an increase in average incomes, a much needed extra spend on welfare and hardship support for beneficiaries, a decline in offending and imprisonment rates, an increase in the number of social houses, [and] new house builds at a 45-year high.\u201D I do acknowledge that there is more that we can do, and this Government remains committed to ensuring that all New Zealanders get their fair share of the benefits of economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbbb5ce9274744b9a18810f157ae3fac\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Salvation Army report that this Government has taken \u201Cthe first steps towards the society-wide change that is needed\u201D, and, if so, what are the next steps to share Aotearoa\u2019s prosperity more fairly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4bf8c5fd44241a3b15113226c378603\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The Government is committed to improving the living standards and wellbeing of all New Zealanders. In this year\u2019s Wellbeing Budget, we saw significant investments to make sure that New Zealanders see their fair share of prosperity, and I point to just a couple of those, including the indexation of main benefits to wages and lifts in the abatement rate. In this year\u2019s Budget, there will be five priorities, all of which will support that, including the Just Transition future of work work, particularly around lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities, and reducing child poverty, and child wellbeing. We are making significant investments in all these areas, and we must continue to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a25fdbb284c466eb253d00e2e09c76d\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Can people struggling in our communities be confident that this Government recognises the need to urgently increase incomes and that he\u2019s listening to the evidence presented by experts like the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) and the Salvation Army report about ways to achieve this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3fee73360347bea81a732f576aeb70\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the second part of that question, absolutely, and I have a great deal of respect for both the Salvation Army for their work in this area and, indeed, the WEAG report. We are at a time where incomes are growing. We see wage growth at its highest level. We see the minimum wage rising. We see settlements across the public sector, the State sector, that are supporting those on middle and low incomes as well. So we are committed to seeing wages rise in New Zealand and incomes across the board rise, and I believe we are seeing evidence of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a1de79932244f369614dede6ff7e1ca\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: As finance Minister, will he be looking to use Budget 2020 to deliver on the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s recommendation to raise core benefit levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0fa278aad034580ac07248a316c73a0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, we don\u2019t comment on the Budget outcomes until they are completed, but it does give me the opportunity to say to the House today that the Budget will be delivered on Thursday, 14 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd581a0638a4f438c1df4d1534e4a48\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that some people had hoped to see more action from the Government to reduce income inequality, given unemployment is at a record low and the Crown\u2019s accounts are in good shape yet too many families are still doing it tough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261fdd853590f4e2da6480d4201597b22\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s always my expectation that the public will have high expectations of the Government, but I am extremely proud of the record of this Government in delivering to low- and middle-income New Zealanders, and I can\u2019t think of anything better to evidence that than the Families Package, where we turned around a set of tax cuts that would have disproportionately benefited the highest income earners in New Zealand to ensure that we delivered to low- and middle-income earners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225219774b6124444ca5ed484f6bc5d1b5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022288d1e6a09334b0ebd4eb2de4f3a6d32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022288d1e6a09334b0ebd4eb2de4f3a6d32\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9430af166f446c8b7bca067690d3430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9430af166f446c8b7bca067690d3430\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly the Government\u2019s $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme, which will see road, rail, schools, and hospitals built or upgraded throughout New Zealand. Even though we only recently made the announcement, for schools in particular I\u2019m hearing about projects that are already under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd95a2b0b6714f3698d8498cc3f10e35\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Can she name one project that\u2019s already under way from that $12 billion spend up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd1d2165f984a6886016a4eef52c090\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I just mentioned, the $400 million that has gone into schools. We\u2019re already seeing individual schooling projects I mentioned. Grant Robertson\u2019s electorate is one. I\u2019ve heard from Chris Hipkins in his area. In fact, if the member cares to ask members on his side, every single school in their areas will have a project that they will be delivering with that funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db3ba915156741ff95c34d56f7fbbdbc\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has she received on the economic effect of coronavirus on New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f5b19122124819adbfc5a25fd81e97\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The advice that I\u2019ve seen thus far has said it is too early to make any assumptions, because much of what we\u2019re seeing could well be temporary. In tourism, the question is whether or not the 13 percent of tourism we see come in from the Chinese market will postpone their visits or whether or not they will indeed turn into cancellations. Regardless, we\u2019re not waiting. We are looking at, within tourism for instance, packages that may help redirect some of those tourist dollars into other parts of the market, even our domestic market. We are asking tourism to work with IRD, for instance, on provisional tax relief as a way of easing the burden on the some 100 small to medium sized enterprises that rely directly on tourism that comes in from the Chinese market, predominantly into Auckland, Rotorua, and Queenstown. We\u2019ve also, as the member, if he\u2019s listened to my post-Cab, will have heard, taken a sweep across forestry, the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI), particularly the rock lobster industry. Those that are seeing direct effects now we\u2019re working closely with, and in the education sector we\u2019ve already worked with education to extend visas for students that may be affected by the border controls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022771df34a8d304036bed8dc55c5ecdfa2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How significant does she believe the effect of coronavirus will be on our economy both now and in the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e875c7efbff498cbce6fabcd81e2e4c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, actually, whilst it is difficult for us to quantify it now, it is almost inevitable. In fact, I\u2019ve already said that, in June when we receive the GDP results that cover this period, I absolutely expect for us to see that reflected in our GDP numbers. As you can imagine, as a trading nation, one that receives a lot of tourism from China, one that has an education sector that has a lot of students coming in from that market, and given China themselves have already reflected in their forecasts for GDP a downgrade, inevitably we will see impacts in New Zealand, but we\u2019re working to mitigate that to the best of our ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222930bcd37c0e48718ecc6f6cbd35e544\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does she believe the Government\u2019s response to the economic effects of coronavirus should be, not just in tourism but in education and primary exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c43fceb4d32c46f6a119b3a88f0b32ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, at the moment the most direct impact we\u2019re seeing for exports is in the live export industry. MPI have worked closely with the rock lobster industry to allow them, for instance, where pots are in the sea, where they\u2019ve been collected, they\u2019re able to be released and in alternative situations MPI are working in conjunction with the industry to give permissions where appropriate for release. At the moment, the Minister of Fisheries is consulting on whether or not their take should be carried over into the new year. So that\u2019s something that\u2019s been consulted on. When it comes to wider exports, at the moment logging is probably the area where the next biggest impact is. That\u2019s not just coronavirus; there\u2019s a beetle incursion in Europe which is causing a large amount to logs to be exported into China. The supply chain there has a backlog because people are not necessarily unloading at the port. We\u2019re working in the areas most affected, particularly Tai R\u0101whiti, on ensuring that the Ministry of Social Development is catering for needs that we might see from contractors who are in harvesting but also on whether or not we can marry up those who might be feeling those impacts with others parts of our forestry industry. Te Uru R\u0101kau are working on that as we speak. We are seeking to be as proactive as we can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8fee240a7e440229822040f2e26ef28\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Given the consensus reports of about a half a percent off GDP at the moment, that being about $1.5 billion and half a billion less in revenue, what will that lower revenue have in terms of effect on this year and the budgetary process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e34c69d12e4d208bbd8dfc7cf99884\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, those are just some of the estimated and assumed impacts. As I\u2019ve said, at this point in time it is just too early to say. For instance, we have really until through to April for some parts of the education sector to see whether or not that will have a long-term impact. Roughly, 59 percent of the overseas education market have their students already in New Zealand. Of course, we expect for the university sector that, even if delayed, students are most likely to still come in if border restrictions lift in appropriate time, and so really it\u2019s just too early to say at this point what those wider impacts will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022beec653f572c438db9fab11ac5cac5f0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00220a8d1c4a04114402af4cc9d6850666f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a8d1c4a04114402af4cc9d6850666f9\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022933df8001d7848bc84de8ef19a841f37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022933df8001d7848bc84de8ef19a841f37\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely, particularly the 18-page comprehensive statement that I released today, which includes a long list of significant achievements I\u2019m incredibly proud of and couldn\u2019t possibly pack into a mere 20 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227999183460fa4bd7ada8caeb35ef020b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How much of that Prime Minister\u2019s statement has been done, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa4d244765545818b7c9aaf5229bb18\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had actually read the report, he would have seen that it is a reflection of all the things that we\u2019ve delivered, and includes, for instance, a snapshot of our economic record: 2.7 percent growth, unemployment at 4 percent. Of course, we\u2019re also debt-down 21 percent, lower than what we inherited, and that\u2019s even when you take into account, of course, going out with the Upgrade Programme of $12 billion, that we still have debt at lower rates than what we inherited. There is a long list in there of achievements, all of which I\u2019m very proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224678477fb66e48dbb44b4c323ffcf894\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What is her Government currently doing in relation to the dispute at Ihum\u0101tao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab3945f3e87d4fc38af87bae132fcb6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve reported on this many times in this House. The member will remember that in July there was a dispute on that land. Essentially, what happened was agreement between Fletcher\u2019s and mana whenua that nothing would happen there until a solution was found. We\u2019ve simply played a role in assisting to try and broker that solution. I would like to think that that\u2019s what leadership is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221600ec72f4324a1d8cc40ea7fdd20176\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When she said last year she hoped it would be resolved by Christmas\u2014has that come to pass?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c08c8168c5064c7b8668f7208d17fc8d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s currently 12 February. The member will well be aware we have passed Christmas, but it\u2019s obvious that it\u2019s been our aspiration to see a dispute like that resolved as soon as possible. That\u2019s in everyone\u2019s interest, and I would include in that New Zealand\u2019s interest, and if the member had an eye to the kind of relations that we want to foster in this country, then that member might look for a solution as well, rather than stoking cheap politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f569a7fbbc64376811277f746734872\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Did she resolve it by Waitangi, like she said she would?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285cdb743d5cd43cd9b6ed91bb1c7cede\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That member, unfortunately, has a poor understanding of the situation if he believes that there is only one party involved in this. There is mana whenua. There is the private company, in Fletcher\u2019s. And, of course, the role we\u2019re trying to play: to broker a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b02f1807de84e6cadd17d0c374e8e0d\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will taxpayers\u2019 or ratepayers\u2019 money be spent on the Ihum\u0101tao dispute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee9051c24234c8880cf8b61e9894cbc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, as I\u2019ve said many times in this House, a solution is still yet to be announced or a resolution announced. What has been key in all of this was keeping in mind that there is a proposed heritage order over the land. That puts Fletcher\u2019s in a very difficult position, and I ask the member, who I would imagine would have an interest in that, what would he do in this situation for a company, after the bumbling decision of a housing Minister had left them in this situation by calling it a special housing area? What would that member do in this situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d08f1370c404f388890db367307773c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the lack of legal significance around the heritage status, why is she considering spending taxpayers\u2019 or ratepayers\u2019 money on the Ihum\u0101tao dispute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b178a901e474dafb510b76235ab813b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s reflection of the heritage status and its effect is inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022970b603ad8e541baa70eb7a1b239725f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe resolution of this dispute with taxpayers\u2019 money will encourage more protests around New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c3fafc429a4024865d44c3f2f7e711\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a hypothetical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265406cae7c174e0fbcb3ca12dfc9d8b7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she mean that the dispute is not going to be resolved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d83acfd89fe42369f41e004c0002c62\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said many times in this House, once there is a resolution, I would happily debate it with that member. But I\u2019d like to see what his proposals would be and if he believes the solution for New Zealand is to see protest, violence, and a dispute continue after that side of the House declared this a special housing area, without any plan on properly managing that\u2014if that chaos, protest, and violence is their response to that situation and if that\u2019s their version of leadership, they are welcome to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f33c615459b5444f8b3ce1028720dabf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So when will this be resolved by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e6d921abf74c8587deaaaee64cd423\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I don\u2019t take such an arrogant view of my role in this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b62fcb9c824d498ebccf85415ae79e02\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00227c75c039756d4672a55d026f08bdf9c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c75c039756d4672a55d026f08bdf9c0\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he seen on the economic impact of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6c720aae0d34396b653cec0234534e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6c720aae0d34396b653cec0234534e3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen a range of reports from business leaders emphasising the significant impact that the Government\u2019s $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme will have for the economy and for businesses. Business New Zealand chief executive Kirk Hope said the additional spending on roading infrastructure will be positive for business, while money for commuter rail services in Auckland and the Wellington region will also help build efficiency and productivity. Fletcher Building CEO Ross Taylor said, \u201CThis isn\u2019t just planning. It\u2019s targeted projects that are real. Often there\u2019s quite a lot of plans and options for projects with price tags that might be years away. I can see this is the infrastructure which is needed and it will happen.\u201D I\u2019m pleased to be part of a Government that is getting on with the job of addressing years of under-investment in New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4c1062dc2441ebbf32de4dea41a6af\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the economic impact of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme from the infrastructure sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e808f6d0255845d18f8804f5a86f5d4a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Infrastructure New Zealand CEO Paul Blair said that the Government\u2019s $12 million infrastructure programme is a fantastic start towards building the infrastructure New Zealand needs to realise its potential. The additional spending and multi-year nature of the package should provide the sector with the confidence to ramp up recruitment, training, and capital investment, with more yet to come. Along the same lines, the New Zealand arm of global engineering and design consultancy WSP has said it will dramatically increase its recruitment staff, hiring hundreds of planners, designers, and engineers to support its role in projects within the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. It is great to see the sector getting behind this package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552005f58b1f41f89131ca09cf4d688f\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the impact of the Government\u2019s increased investment in the economy on the Crown\u2019s finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc6407dd192e4c9d8aae690eae997ce8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: According to forecasts in the Treasury\u2019s Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, net core Crown debt is expected to peak at 21.5 percent of GDP in 2021-22 as a result of the investments made in the Upgrade Programme. This is well below the 22.9 percent we inherited from the previous Government. In the last few weeks, following our announcement of higher investment levels, Fitch Ratings revised its rating for New Zealand to AA\u002B, reflecting the New Zealand Government\u2019s sound fiscal management and low Government debt, which, to quote them, \u201Cenhances the country\u2019s resilience to economic and financial shocks\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510a0cb081d546939a97d382c16567a1\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the economic impact of his Government cancelling or postponing National\u2019s road projects two years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d09794d3e104bf88b2269cefb3190cf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The premise of the member\u2019s question is utterly wrong, because it\u2019s not possible to cancel ghost roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022503ed1c700b048baab2c7e2813fd8d84\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022980173c6bae7460aa2405469ced17a25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022980173c6bae7460aa2405469ced17a25\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What steps, if any, has he taken to ensure the integrity of ministerial decisions in the major spending programmes announced in the previous two Budgets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad0c06ca71264122911261d7a445ef32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad0c06ca71264122911261d7a445ef32\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E With regard to ministerial decisions that I am responsible for, in terms of the major spending programmes announced in the previous two Budgets, I took steps to ensure the integrity of them in line with the regular Budget decision-making process, similar to the previous Ministers of Finance, like Bill English or Steven Joyce. That process\u2014and I hope not to make the answer too long, but I\u2019ll go through it\u2014is that Budget initiatives are submitted by Ministers, in most cases, prior to Christmas. Individual initiatives are assessed by the Treasury in some instances and by secretariats of officials from other agencies in other instances. Budget initiatives are assessed according to a range of factors, including their alignment with Budget priorities, their wellbeing impacts, the robustness of their costings, their implementation readiness, and their value for money. These assessments are pulled together to give advice to Ministers on a package of initiatives that could be funded through the Budget. Ministers meet and take decisions on a package to be considered by Cabinet. Cabinet then considers it and makes final decisions on a final Budget package, and Parliament passes the Budget. After that point, there are parliamentary and other processes in place to further ensure the integrity of any spending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224075045a9bf24216be93ee50300da567\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has anything he has seen in the past three days caused him to question or doubt the integrity of ministerial decision-making about major spending projects has been maintained?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222824b6300f7a4d4cae75afb8f88ded10\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d969c111f924ff883bb794d6316f97a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he been following the news since Monday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429b898bfb8d4a7c9ce1871f50890b12\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely have been and, once again, the Government has been making announcements that benefit the New Zealand economy across the board. We\u2019ve got a situation just today where we\u2019ve seen our interest rates held and the Reserve Bank Governor or the monetary policy committee reflecting on the importance of the role that the Government\u2019s fiscal investment is playing in making sure that the economy is going well. In the matters for which I am responsible, I keep a close eye on the news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225751db49836a4a89a69e56609b04e6a5\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered reviewing major spending decisions involving New Zealand First Ministers while matters raised by the Electoral Commission and referred to the Serious Fraud Office are resolved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ba4b80122746a4a3089226ae885852\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d have to bow to the member\u2019s superior knowledge of the Serious Fraud Office in its inquiry work. But, from my perspective, I will await the outcomes of that inquiry like every other member. Otherwise, the Government gets on with its normal order of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217273f16126a4edcb5a707dbe934bafb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to four matters which are sub judice, but nevertheless may have a connection with respect to Government spending, has there been any connection between those four sub judice cases put before the Serious Fraud Office to trial already or any Government Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226856827c8c54e79aa66da9161b05e9e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: There is no connection in those. I mean, obviously, various political parties at times will have matters that are referred to the Serious Fraud Office. There are avenues available to parliamentarians if they have concerns about Government spending. We\u2019ve seen that in the past. I think of the Saudi sheep deal as being an excellent example of where parliamentarians, if they have concerns about matters, know what to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d71512cbd2f4c50ab6095a932b3a58d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Have you spoken directly to the Deputy Prime Minister in the past three days about ways to reassure New Zealanders about the integrity of ministerial decision-making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea23ba6854034df0b83df7554565b00c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve spoken directly to the Deputy Prime Minister on a number of occasions over the last three days, but I certainly haven\u2019t felt the need to do it on that particular topic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6ca3888541424eb08ad4bfd425acb0\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So is he telling the House that, notwithstanding the Electoral Commission\u2019s statement, it\u2019s just business as usual for ministerial decision-making around large scale investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136137315f9c4af6a3427f4d3578fa2c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member\u2019s making a huge logical leap in his question there. We are getting on with the business of Government. We are positive about the future of New Zealand and we\u2019re focused on the issues that matter to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022179a2f5af70f4113b399c124399afff9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002236d80ade0f014685b80a57a6ff3c8791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236d80ade0f014685b80a57a6ff3c8791\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he satisfied that the response to the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak was timely and appropriate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00224bb32ba6a51d4589b8088f982839c279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bb32ba6a51d4589b8088f982839c279\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and it continues to be so. All the decisions we have taken have been informed by science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d6764b8cc2449086e35a5a45ba2ed2\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Why is there no screening of passengers arriving from China who transit through another country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b2e4c0ca1b1428297ddb1ca4875453f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: All passengers who come through from another country are being checked as they come through to New Zealand. We track who has been in China in the last 14 days, and if they are permanent residents or New Zealand citizens, then of course they are allowed into New Zealand and they are given advice on where to seek help if they have any symptoms. They are also given advice on health measures. Basic hand hygiene, of course, is one of the critical things in preventing the spread of the virus, as well as making sure that they are in self-isolation for that 14-day period. So those who are not New Zealand citizens, permanent residents, or their immediate family are turned back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022027692346c5047fe85b08fc4be47fc9c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister telling the House that a passenger arriving from China who transits through, say, Seoul or Sydney and arrives at Dunedin or Queenstown international airport is given the information that he just described?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221830b82b6aad4f1ba430a4ea23d9be70\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As people come into New Zealand, they are being given the public health information in simplified Chinese, traditional Chinese, and in English. Public health staff are at the border. We are looking to make sure that anyone who has been in China in the last 14 days is in receipt of that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7f558afd0d4312b99be5d909bf53e5\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Are passengers arriving from affected areas via cruise ships being screened for the virus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379e977a764f45c5897226798d404609\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Any passengers arriving on cruise ships are being given the same information as those who arrive at airports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262f1ab867e424995aded36240f3d4080\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the Minister who advises that the screening processes are diligently followed, or the New Zealander who came back from Wuhan and said, \u201CComing into New Zealand there was nothing. For me it was \u2026 like we got off [the] plane and walked through and no one really seemed that concerned.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e741692365e467485d45c1e339cfda7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The provision of information at the airports is the thing that we are advised by the medical experts, the science, is the best and most effective thing we can do, because it makes sure that when people have the symptoms\u2014if they have any symptoms\u2014they know where to get help, to call Healthline; they know how to self-isolate effectively; they know how to do hand hygiene, cough hygiene, and other things that prevent the spread of this virus. So we have taken those measures that the clinical experts, the doctors, have recommended. At every point, we have made sure that our decisions have been informed by science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f92c858dd69749afab4cd9f653675433\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u00228cffcb4ab39543ec83526e84dbb2ad8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cffcb4ab39543ec83526e84dbb2ad8b\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: In what ways, if any, will the New Zealand Upgrade Programme help futureproof the economy and get our cities moving?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002214d639ffe9c143f089322c50b8e6ad11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214d639ffe9c143f089322c50b8e6ad11\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The New Zealand Upgrade Programme will help futureproof the economy by providing a fully funded pipeline of transport projects over the next decade on top of the ones already funded and being delivered through the National Land Transport Programme. It will help get our cities moving by investing $6.8 billion for roads, rail, public transport, and walking and cycling in our six major growth areas. It\u2019s proof positive that we are the Government of infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022838431a561e446adbf593a27c8537d3d\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: What reactions has he seen from the industry to the New Zealand Upgrade Programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1656831f54d4de0a0b57e5976a8d575\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Civil Contractors New Zealand chief executive Peter Silcock said that the announcements showed the Government was looking at a wide range of projects, including roads, and that this announcement was a welcome one for the country\u2019s road builders and civil construction companies. Kirk Hope of Business New Zealand said that this announcement was positive for business. It\u2019s fair to say the New Zealand Upgrade has had glowing reviews from industry across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2a0e03487d9416590e5e897d630b3dc\u0022\u003EPaul Eagle\u003C/span\u003E: What job opportunities will be created because of the package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228060a3d2621246e1b1a7ee4d84d3c5f2\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The Transport Agency estimates that the package could initially create 800 to 1,000 new jobs directly in our construction industry as the first five projects get under way in the next 12 months\u2014that is, State Highway 1 Papakura to Drury, electrification of the rail line between Papakura and Pukekohe, the third main rail line, Tauranga Northern Link, and the Wellington rail package\u2014and that it\u2019s designed to create 7,000 to 9,000 jobs in the wider supply chain. This is based on what happened with similar projects recently, and from NZTA\u2019s discussions with the industry. It will also provide opportunities to upskill our workforce. Importantly, the package gives industry the certainty that they\u2019ve been asking for: a pipeline of work for the next decade, enabling them to invest in their people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efeeb8156af84c3896a06a509b0d13e5\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any advocacy from the member of Parliament for Rongotai about the necessity of bringing forward a second Mount Victoria tunnel as part of the New Zealand Upgrade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283aa15a42fd446a5a0fba060aa1e3b78\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member for Rongotai is a very active advocate on behalf of his constituents, and what he tells me is that the people who live in his electorate are overwhelmingly happy that they have a Government that\u2019s committed $6.5 billion of multimodal transport investments to Wellington after nine years when the former Government\u2014the only thing that they did was fail to impose a giant concrete flyover at the Basin Reserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022531aaac0ab2c4350b74183853afd13f0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292aa6948560486e8b5df93c3ec55378\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think I need a point of order. I think the member will now address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022449f5e8b185241658feca3f663fcdf71\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The member for Rongotai is a very active advocate on behalf of his constituents, and he wants to see all of the components of the Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving package moved forward as fast as possible, and they will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3858a24a6846c9a762f7c7ab2c55f9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: If the New Zealand Upgrade Programme is so meritorious, why didn\u2019t the Government announce it two years ago when it took power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19201d95cba4c36b85243d0076e6db5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because we have rebalanced the transport policy by spending. We\u2019ve made a $4 billion investment in rail, we are doing 70 percent more maintenance of the State highway network, we\u2019re investing $1.4 billion in safety upgrades on 3,300 kilometres of State highways and local roads, and after the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, we are spending more than $7 billion more on transport infrastructure than the former Government did\u2014$7 billion more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265daf5031ae0474a85119f03648b3fac\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, could the Minister explain how doing any of that prevented him from announcing the New Zealand Upgrade Programme two years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20d8d1a89d046cea9c614220b7ef842\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because it was necessary, after nine years of neglect, to address the deficit of transport infrastructure that we inherited. We had to rebalance the transport policy. We have, and, thanks to Grant Robertson\u2019s careful financial management, we\u2019re now in a position to bring forward and fund projects that that party promised in a press release but never funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022735ab0495e2640afbc6de864b39b0484\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00229e5f2d516c314dafae2214c4d87c6dd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e5f2d516c314dafae2214c4d87c6dd8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 8, the Hon Louise Upston. Question No. 9, Chris Bishop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b044d9b9790040d18641769a631f3c8c\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t hear you, sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b9c188303b493aba56e7ca85522897\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will go back to the member, but it\u2019s up to her to listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227adbbc751214408b88eb487903efcf3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227adbbc751214408b88eb487903efcf3c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by her statement that \u201Cthe Government\u2019s plan to get people off the benefit and into work is starting to pay off\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002284e145e269404e1d9d81679590346753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284e145e269404e1d9d81679590346753\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I stand by the 42,834 cancellations into work that have occurred since July, following our investment into 170 extra front-line case managers to support people into work. There have been 6,703 cancellations into work in the last month alone\u2014an increase of 27.9 percent from this time last year\u2014and the highest number of exits into work for the month of January in the last five years. We have more New Zealanders in work than ever before, and the weekly average wage is up $80 since we took office. Sixteen thousand Ministry of Social Development (MSD) clients have been supported towards employment through upskilling and training in 2019. This Government is committed to supporting people into sustainable work, and these figures show that we are making real progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256912d8db095466d8f6a5dc070dcc250\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that Labour has overseen the three lowest ever quarters for the number of people moving off benefit and into work? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d49bba95b3314af8bdd599209118da89\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already stated, what we\u2019ve seen is actually an increase in the number of people exiting benefit for work. Quite often in this House, the member likes to refer to the raw figures, but even if we look at the proportion of working-age New Zealanders on benefit, at the moment it\u2019s 10.5 percent, compared to December 2014, where it was 11.2 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b982027f8b4d4b23b02066af20a359aa\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that the Government\u2019s plan is paying off for the 27,000 more New Zealanders on job seeker support since Labour took office? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d7c3f34da84730aa8e449653a8370f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Do I think that we\u2019ve got more to do? Absolutely, but, as I said, this Government is focused on supporting New Zealanders into upskilling and training and into employment. That is why we have invested in programmes like Mana in Mahi. We recognise, and particularly I, when I go across the country, that many of the jobs that are advertised within our MSD office require a level of skill\u2014skill that wasn\u2019t invested in by the previous Government\u2014so many of the people that come through our offices aren\u2019t necessarily equipped with the qualifications, skills, or experience to take up the roles. We\u2019re committed to making sure that they have those skills, that they have those qualifications, and that they\u2019re supported into the jobs that are available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ddc180dda034aa9bdfdc53e24908e32\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If your plan is paying off, why has the proportion of people who go back on to benefit 16 weeks after completing an intervention increased every year under your Government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223619fcb5a47450dbf73c61392c0ec64\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an interesting question, because under the previous Government I was highly critical of the fact that they were not actually measuring whether or not the employment that they were putting people into was sustainable or not, and under them, we saw a large number of people who did exit benefit for work back on benefit within the next 18 months. Just recently, actually, I was given advice\u2014because we are starting to look at sustainable employment\u2014that just over the last three months, sustainable employment places have gone up month on month. So I\u2019m really glad that as a Government we are actually measuring things that count, unlike the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a55280ed0024af8b7190c2ea4cbb1fd\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How many more people will go on to the dole before you admit that your welfare\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc2f0cd97234d8a9993c1e7e0f59c94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! The member is going to start the question again. I\u2019ve let her run twice with out-of-order questions. This time, she\u2019s not going to bring me into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e98973b18125405686a41409697eb410\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How many more people will go on to the dole before the Minister admits that her welfare plans aren\u2019t paying off and considers taking some advice from National about how to give people opportunities to get ahead? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b47c10594404945af29afb92ac30e77\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very confident with the plan that we have in place on this side of the House. We recognise that it is about the welfare system but also about the investment that we put into education and other areas as well. Also, I would like to say on the record that if that member ever asks me a question again in this House about a thing called the dole\u2014which does not exist\u2014I will refuse to answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e6b07960b304243980d5c9edf08b230\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002288f72f432824435c9fc6924e5d21a9c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f72f432824435c9fc6924e5d21a9c3\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by his reported comment on 10 July 2019 in relation to 12 roading projects that \u201CIf we were to do what the Business Advisory Council was saying, it would mean spending a great deal of money, more than $12 billion, on projects that have very low economic value,\u201D and what role did he play in the selection of the transport projects in the Government\u2019s New Zealand Upgrade Programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002295f33bbbc36140388d7e77807be474ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295f33bbbc36140388d7e77807be474ea\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context it was made. As the member knows, I think, these projects have been re-evaluated to align with our Government policy statement on land transport, which includes value for money as a priority. Our State highway projects have been futureproofed to include dedicated walking and cycling paths, and with the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) looking to managed lanes dedicated to freight, high-occupancy vehicles, and public transport. To the second part of the question, I worked closely with the Minister of Finance, relying on NZTA\u2019s advice on the selection of multimodal transport projects for the Upgrade Programme, which will speed up travel times, ease congestion, make our roads safer, and give people real transport choices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efe06bf6c05c4d88a7e0de1544341ca8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still think New Zealand has over-invested in roads and motorways for decades? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39cc2e08af149608606db57003949ca\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the full quotation, not the one that has been so selectively misrepresented by the National Party. What I said was that New Zealand has in the past under-invested in roads at the expense of other parts of the transport system, particularly public transport. I stand by that, and our Government is dedicated to a balanced, modern transport policy that serves the whole country and all transport modes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc82ecb4ae5349caa80c9c17d581c1ac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I am just going to interrupt. I think the member might have misspoken right at the beginning of his quotation, and it might be good to tidy it up now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022610afda4517a468299a994fc22a27bc4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The full quote was that New Zealand has in the past over-invested in roads at the expense of other parts of the transport system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b18e1c065f4398b47353d2dcf9b846\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Canterbury region receive only 2.3 percent of the $6.8 billion transport component of the Upgrade Programme? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ac13db355a438a9959636b6b533f9f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: So I would note that there has been substantial transport investment in Canterbury in the last few years. An entire new motorway network has been constructed. I would also say that, under this Government, the South Island is getting $3.4 billion of transport spending\u2014another $249 million\u2014because of the Upgrade Programme. This Government is spending more on transport than the former Government did in the South Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a0a772d36c34b6298fe39eee52e2cc9\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any correspondence from Julie Anne Genter in her capacity as transport spokesperson for the Green Party or, indeed, the Associate Minister of Transport in relation to the transport component of the Upgrade Programme? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285876af795e94b57bc8cf30f7618686a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I have received correspondence from the Associate Minister, and I\u2019m pleased to say that both our coalition and confidence and supply partners have been fully involved in the design and development of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme and they fully support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f52476f7b4a4fc8b5ecbd7425b27943\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 12 roading projects mentioned in the primary question were fully planned, consented, and fully funded when he became the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e20e24193a4eb390945fa97d95c02e\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a very short answer: there were none that were fully planned, designated, consented, or funded\u2014zero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229256381686cc420796f7df6a1c4f94c0\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the four-lane stretch of highway from Whang\u0101rei to Marsden Point reflects the very strong collaborative relationship he has with his associate transport Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b518fd198ea84f3980f828b11fabcb18\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that. The associate transport Minister made very strong and clear representations on behalf of the people of Northland. That particular stretch of road\u2014neglected for years under the former Government\u2014is one of the most dangerous and busy stretches of that highway, of State Highway 1, and the response from the people of the North has been very, very positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eed8b85478a4d3ea269cb7fcd0064b6\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware if any funding was allocated to progress SkyPath on Auckland\u2019s Harbour Bridge after Auckland Central MP, Nikki Kaye, said in 2016 she really wants the project to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b84cb51c3b049319b4e15c5257d47b1\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Four years ago you weren\u2019t born.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972b5641f6d64f95b2fb5ad67d8219e9\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: In spite of the enthusiasm\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886db81b34d54f2286691353c845ed24\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Who was that? Who made the interjection then as to the date of my birth\u2014the totally inaccurate one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241ec74a500d4709b2de19ee2469a4dd\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210130fad5eee4382bfb97009f61c0440\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr O\u2019Connor will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589fdfba2bf7404089fd6321dc526629\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268412e0e9eef4356acd7a16bbb56ce7c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Where were we with that? I think we\u2019ve had the question; we\u2019ll now have the reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215ebffb60c0d4a6197b5d72195fa5f7a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: In spite of the enthusiasm of the Auckland Central member of Parliament, the transport Minister at the time, Simon Bridges, did not put any funding towards SkyPath at all. But luckily for Ms Kaye, this Government has guaranteed funding not only for SkyPath but for the 3-kilometre shared path connecting the SkyPath to Northcote and Takapuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aba8e8e7d4b48958a97defc30b9e301\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How much funding in the New Zealand Upgrade package is earmarked for clean transport like rail, public transport, walking, and cycling, and did the previous Government fund any of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022add7fe37b55842a19f30b70e178c4edb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s from a Minister who\u2019s a close personal associate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bcbac7858ec401aba6d34910dad4d93\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m going to remind members for the last time\u2014including the member sitting next to the shadow Leader of the House\u2014that they do not interject during the asking of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d1d44f823a4b97a8ca405f14f7bd8d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand Upgrade will deliver approximately $1.6 billion of funding for new clean transport projects; none of which had funding set aside under the previous Government. This includes $370 million for extending rail electrification to Pukekohe; $315 million to build the third southern rail line in Auckland; and more than $100 million to deliver faster, more frequent bus services in Christchurch and Queenstown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fcf2435fad946e8b8030e643be6b48a\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that the New Zealand Upgrade will deliver as many kilometres of safe separated cycleways as new State highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022647ce498e3fc40cebef7ad2cb6e172b7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The New Zealand Upgrade will see 99 kilometres of safe separated walking and cycling facilities rolled out across the country so that people feel safe walking and cycling with their kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c54486721c7b42f5826e509f2be71434\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u00221fb56a341e32478981dce9fed3f2ff79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221fb56a341e32478981dce9fed3f2ff79\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made about child and maternal health facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022780ed86010d94f0c8a458ad242b1d19f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022780ed86010d94f0c8a458ad242b1d19f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The Prime Minister\u2019s ambition is to make New Zealand the best place in the world to be a child. To support that, as part of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme announced two weeks ago, $83 million has been set aside for child and maternal health facilities. We\u2019re investing in neonatal and paediatric intensive care units in Counties Manukau, Auckland, Hutt Valley, and Capital and Coast. We\u2019re investing in better maternal facilities in Hutt Valley and South Canterbury, as well as new and upgraded dental vans in Hawke\u2019s Bay, Lakes, and Wairarapa DHBs. These projects will make a real difference to families up and down New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c34831c553fe490face23f5410b007c0\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How will patients at Starship hospital benefit from the New Zealand Upgrade?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e59a348ce134907ac825fe4e1874fe6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Starship is home to New Zealand\u2019s only specialist paediatric intensive care service. They do amazing work there. They look after the most unwell children from all over the country, including those who need cardiac surgery and transplantation. So I\u2019m particularly pleased that we are investing $25 million into the expansion of the paediatric intensive care unit\u2014or PICU\u2014at Starship. This will take capacity at the unit from 22 beds currently to more than 30 beds, as well as provide for improved wh\u0101nau spaces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022166415e3d97a4970909fd780a020dc73\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this investment needed at Starship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d3378dd2634a109000c7797ec39868\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Starship\u2019s PICU currently treats around 1,100 to 1,200 children each year. Demand has grown by 30 percent over the past three years and is expected to continue to grow. We need to act now to ensure that we have enough beds to care for these most vulnerable of patients. Construction work is planned to begin in early 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022806bc9de812d43f0afa329791724421d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00229aff59f03b944e22ab8f81784d658783\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229aff59f03b944e22ab8f81784d658783\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media: Does he stand by all his actions and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5e8c4bd011548c6b1b51cedf17d553d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5e8c4bd011548c6b1b51cedf17d553d\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E In the context in which they were given, yes. In particular, I stand by my statement that New Zealanders must have access to a strong and independent public media service for the decades to come. This will ensure that New Zealand audiences will have access to content which reflects the language and experiences of New Zealanders, including those currently underserved audiences. In Budget 2018, we increased public media funding by $15 million. In Budget 2019, we increased Radio New Zealand\u2019s (RNZ) baseline by a further $7.25 million. This was in direct contrast to the previous Government\u2019s nine years of funding freezing for public media.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a81adcf2108c4021b24577e48c6b86f1\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: When was he first made aware of RNZ\u2019s plan for the axing of RNZ Concert and the removal of its broadcasting from the FM frequency in favour of a youth radio station?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133894cdccbf431c83d0994e9149d59b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to let this question go but warn members that in future, when they\u2019re asking about actions and policies, the supplementary question has to relate to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad7ff32695544aabf41c913482054e7\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: I was briefed by Radio New Zealand that they were working on a youth strategy in August and October of 2019. They brought their final proposal around the youth strategy and the impacts of that to me on 29 January of this year. As has been said publicly, I raised a number of concerns with them; most substantively was the issue of moving Radio New Zealand Concert off its current frequency of 93.5 FM. I said I would go and work on making sure that their youth strategy could have another alternative frequency to operate on, and that\u2019s what I did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb4d41f71aa4ddda127a64d1b6f3faf\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say, and I quote, \u201CIt\u2019s not for the Government to decide what it\u2019s utilised for.\u201D in regards to the youth radio spectrum, when the Prime Minister has said, \u201C[The new frequency] was always intended for youth radio and youth programming,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c77cd7feba14de0a9d83b1f7dff100b\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: Because that question that the member herself asked me at the select committee in June of last year pertained to frequency for both M\u0101ori and youth. In my reading of the transcript, I was saying that it wasn\u2019t for Government alone to decide how the spectrum should be used. Both of those 103 and 102 frequencies are assigned for M\u0101ori purposes, or the 102 for a youth network strategy, and in one of those, it\u2019s not for Government alone to dictate exactly how that spectrum is allocated or used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022725b2b79e43145e1a225ec092fbb9b4a\u0022\u003EMelissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement by former Prime Minister the Rt Hon Helen Clark that the Concert FM issue has been, and I quote, \u201Chandled disastrously\u201D; if so, does he accept responsibility for this disastrous handling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206bab25a96d54207a649d386db827710\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very important that Governments keep away from operational decisions that public broadcasters make, and the decision to run a consultation with their staff around a youth network strategy was theirs. They have subsequently taken action to keep Concert FM where it is. The former Prime Minister is entitled to her opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a1b7fc4f8aa46a0b50c51abe22aa4b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Research, Science and Innovation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a17e5ca372e04ac3a58bdd4a636f2dcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a17e5ca372e04ac3a58bdd4a636f2dcb\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Research, Science and Innovation: Is the Government delivering improved outcomes in research and innovation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002209d33f53667449c9a53717a393361412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209d33f53667449c9a53717a393361412\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Research, Science and Innovation):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In the two years we\u2019ve been in office, we\u2019ve delivered across a wide range of areas in research and innovation, but there is always more to do. An edited list of our highlights of things that we have done: we have invested $1.1 billion in a 15 percent tax incentive, which we\u2019ve yet to see the impact from; we\u2019ve funded Callaghan Innovation\u2019s campus redevelopment and established a National New Energy Development Centre to ensure we have world-class innovation infrastructure; we\u2019ve signed international agreements to foster greater collaboration on research and innovation with Governments and the private sector; we\u2019ve made significant investments into important areas of research, such as renewable energy, agricultural and climate science; and can continue to develop our space research capability, including hosting mission control for New Zealand\u2019s first space mission. This Government has set out to lift\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7c926790e64445f8c65d9112132dbd6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You know, that is enough. The member gets a 10-minute speech later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140b8f085ee34bc39a558d9a302a44b0\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say her Government is delivering improved outcomes in innovation when New Zealand\u2019s ranking on the Bloomberg Innovation Index fell by five places this year to 29 in the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f56f32074845869e6c4c84cbb89b73\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The Bloomberg innovation survey to which the member refers is measured across seven domains out of 100, all of which are weighted equally across that. It is important to note that this is a composite survey that doesn\u2019t only take into account innovation. The seven domains are R \u0026amp; D intensity, manufacturing value-added, productivity, high-tech density, tertiary education, researcher concentration, and product activity. In fact, the area where New Zealand did drop the most was in the manufacturing value-added rather than the innovation measures that are captured in that survey. In fact, in some of the innovation domains that are measured in that, we actually performed ahead of every country except for three or four that are ahead of us. What the member also should note is that the New Zealand score, the raw score on the index, has been in decline from 2015 to 2018. That decline was reversed in 2018 and stabilised only in 2019. We as a Government believe that, actually, what sits behind that is our drive to lift our very low percentage of GDP that we spend, which we as a Government have seen movement of. I seek leave to table this graph, which shows the fact that New Zealand\u2019s score on the Bloomberg weighted average has been in decline for a number of years but has indeed stabilised over the years 2018 to 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cec2d742823409e995eed30eb4129bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e668c8f18b0141ba8e2b2bfd55be076d\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she blaming the last National Government, because when she came into Government, New Zealand was 18 on the Bloomberg Innovation Index ranking, and now we are on 29 under her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab1e3a7bf324f648da791f0707cd0cb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I think I gave quite a thorough answer to the initial question\u2014that, in fact, what I\u2019m saying is there are a range of domains that that is measured across. So I am going to go through some of those raw numbers in terms of that. So in 2013, the year in which Callaghan Innovation was established, 57.73 was our weighted number. That did jump slightly in 2014 to 75.09 but then did decline all the way through to the beginning of 2018 to 67.4. What we have seen over the years 2019 to 2020 is 68.12 and 68.08. I think what all members of this House, regardless of what side they sit on, should be dedicated to is the fact that New Zealand has a woeful percentage of GDP expenditure, and that is something that this Government has seen real movement on, unlike the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d5977ff6a884e1484ac91b969c52c27\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Is she at all concerned that New Zealand had the largest fall of any single country, making New Zealand the biggest loser in the latest Bloomberg Innovation Index?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb205777e6f14c169b1b75d2ab663f9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I am always concerned about where New Zealand ranks in the world, but I will reiterate again that that is a composite index the member has referred to. In fact, the area where it had its biggest fall was not one related to innovation, but that doesn\u2019t stop me being concerned. What I would also point out to the member is that these are proportionate to GDP, and I will remind the member that New Zealand had higher GDP percentage growth than other advanced economies that it has been compared to in that table. So while we maintain our growth in GDP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269072ad9066f48a387fcb40ae0476459\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That concludes oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022daca7656c7f64bb18154d66c879456d6\u0022\u003EFinancial Market Infrastructures Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e723f62be04843c3bf262ba0274b30e4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022289dc4d2ae334cb08471c5af2f06dbd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022289dc4d2ae334cb08471c5af2f06dbd3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is the moment that the House has been waiting for. The Financial Market Infrastructures Bill establishes a new framework for the regulation and supervision of financial market infrastructures\u2014or FMIs. FMIs are sometimes described as the plumbing of the financial system. They include payment systems which are used to effect payments in the financial sector and real economy, and other types of infrastructures like securities settlement systems and central counterparties, which support the buying and selling of financial products in various ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFMIs play an essential role in the sound and efficient functioning of the financial system and in the operation of the real economy. Many transactions in the financial system and all electronic payments ultimately rely on the operation of one or more FMIs. As a consequence, it is not uncommon for large FMIs to handle transactions worth billions of dollars on a daily basis. FMIs also play a key role in supporting the efficient operation of the financial system by reducing transaction costs; reducing counterparty, custodial, and other risks; and fostering transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe operation of FMIs is often taken for granted, Mr Tabuteau, and unless the services they provide are disrupted, there can be extremely serious consequences if an important FMI fails. Failure to complete payments or other transactions or even a failure to complete these on time can subject the financial system or individual market participants to severe solvency or liquidity stresses. In extreme cases, this can result in contagion risks and a cascading series of defaults across the financial system. The disruption of key payment systems will often disrupt the real economy, preventing businesses and consumers from being able to buy and sell goods and services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe existing regulation of FMIs is limited. Parts 5B and 5C of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act establish information-gathering powers in respect of payment systems and the designation regime for settlement systems. However, the regime in Parts 5B and 5C is no longer fit for purpose. For example, in most respects it\u2019s a voluntary opt-in regime. It lacks a full suite of supervisory enforcement and crisis management powers. More generally, it\u2019s seriously out of step with international standards. The systemic importance of many FMIs and the deficiencies in the existing regulatory regime were recognised by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) when it carried out its Financial Sector Assessment Programme of New Zealand in 2016-17. In the context of that review, the IMF assessed and specifically recommended the adoption of the framework that is reflected in this bill as one of its more high-profile conclusions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe regime in the bill is administered jointly by the Reserve Bank and the Financial Markets Authority, except in relation to payment systems where the Reserve Bank will be the sole regulator. It also provides different treatment for the regulation of designated and non-designated FMIs. Designated FMIs are those that are identified as systemically important and brought into the regime or have opted into the regime to access the current legal protections around settlement, finality, netting, and the enforceability of rules which are being carried across into this FMI bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe new regime is tailored to the needs and systemic importance of individual FMIs. Designated FMIs are subject to a range of regulatory powers, whereas non-designated FMIs will be subject only to certain information-gathering and investigative powers. This approach focuses regulation on the most important FMIs while minimising the barriers to entry and compliance costs which might otherwise hinder new entrants and the development of new products\u2014for example, around retail payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EUnder the bill, regulatory requirements for designated FMIs will be set\u2014their standards made by the regulators. The power to set standards is designed, among other things, to allow standards to cover the matters in the global guidelines for FMI regulation, the Committee on Payment and Settlement Systems and the International Organisation of Securities Commission\u2019s Principles for Financial Market Infrastructures. For example, the bill permits standards to be made for matters such as FMIs\u2019 governance, risk management, and financial resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor the purposes of day-to-day supervision of designated FMIs, the bill provides the regulators with information-gathering powers and powers to oversee the rules of those FMIs. For example, changes to the rules of a designated FMI must be approved by the regulators, and the regulators must also require that the rules of the designated FMI be changed. Furthermore, the bill requires designated FMIs to have credible contingency plans for how they will manage risks and continue to provide or promptly restore essential services in the face of operational or financial distress. Detailed requirements for contingency plans can also be set in the standards made by regulators. Under the bill standards, oversight of FMI rules, contingency plans, and supervisory powers will all help lower the risk of a designated FMI failing and ensuring that failures that do occur can be managed with the least amount of disruption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs a backstop to these measures, the bill also provides crisis management powers, specifically direction powers and a tailored statutory management regime for the operators of designated FMIs. Directions may require a designated FMI to take a range of actions to address problems. For example, under a contingency plan, participants in a FMI may also be directed to comply with the FMI\u2019s rules in certain situations\u2014for example, to facilitate orderly resolution of a designated FMI. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe statutory management regime in the bill is the crisis management power of last resort and provides an alternative to normal insolvency processes such as liquidation, which are not suitable for managing the failure of a designated FMI, because this will disrupt the provision of essential services that they provide. The crisis management powers are likely to be some of the most important\u2014if rarely used\u2014powers in the bill. The lack of crisis management powers is one of the most significant gaps in the existing regulation of FMIs. Not having these powers available makes it much harder to deal with an FMI failure and avoid disruption to the provision of essential services, with potentially very serious impacts on the financial system due to the stresses that will be placed on market participants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs noted, the bill provides the regulators with a much more limited set of powers in respect of non-designated FMIs, and this reflects that these will not be systemic nor have access to the legal protections around settlement, finality, netting, and the enforceability of rules that are afforded to designated FMIs. The more limited information-gathering and investigative powers that will apply to non-designated FMIs will be used mainly for the purpose of monitoring the broader sector and identifying whether an FMI has become systemic and should be further regulated under the regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor clarity, it is worth noting the connections between the FMI bill and phase two of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act review. While they are separate matters on different timelines, there are connections in certain areas in particular crisis management. At a later point, after this bill is enacted, we may look to review some aspects of the regulatory regime of FMIs to take into account the detailed conclusions of phase two. In the meantime, there are two or three years anticipated before all of that legislation comes into effect, and this bill is an important step in its own right and should advance ahead of the phase two legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill contains a graduated set of remedies for breaches. These include criminal and civil penalties, enforceable undertakings, and remedial notices, which will require an FMI operator to take action to remedy a breach. While the operation of FMIs is often taken for granted on a day-to-day basis, they are vital to the operation of the financial system and to all consumers and citizens, and ensuring that they operate in a sound and efficient manner is important for people to go about their daily lives. Because most transactions in the financial system are, and all electronic payments ultimately rely on FMIs, their disruption or failure can have a serious adverse impact on the operation of the financial system and in the real economy and the day-to-day ability of businesses and consumers to buy and sell their products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs noted, the IMF has expressed support for the approach reflected in this bill, and the bill closes an important regulatory gap in New Zealand by ensuring that these vital but often little noticed infrastructures are subject to effective supervision and oversight. In doing so, it marks an important step in supporting financial stability and the effective operation of financial markets, aligning with international standards in a reasonable and proportionate manner, and supporting confidence in the New Zealand financial system and the operation of the real economy. I commend the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002223181f788f6d46669159b14873f8b480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223181f788f6d46669159b14873f8b480\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak on this, the first reading of the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill and to signal that the National Party will be supporting this legislation through\u2014certainly at the first reading. We do want to\u2014I mean, this was a piece of legislation which relates to improving the regulatory framework for financial instruments, market infrastructures, that relate to, as the Minister of Finance said, to the plumbing of the financial system, which we don\u2019t think about very often, we just assume that it works. And, for the most part, it does work. It works effectively and New Zealanders are very well-served by the system that we have in place right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat is a fairly light regulatory framework. We\u2019ve had many visits from international institutions, such as the IMF over the years, which say we should regulate more in this area. And they said that again in 2016, and the previous National Government, of which I was a part, agreed with recommendations from the Reserve Bank that we should move in this direction. And that\u2019s why we support the overall thrust of the bill, which, in essence, is establishing a regime whereby the Reserve Bank and the Financial Markets Authority (FMA), as joint regulators, would have information-gathering powers for all financial market infrastructures (FMIs) in order to monitor the broader sector and identify potential systemic risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, secondly, an FMI which is identified as being significant could be required to be designated under a revised designation regime. And then, thirdly, the joint regulators would have enhanced regulatory oversight powers for designated FMIs, including the powers to set regulatory requirements, oversee their rules, investigative and enforcement powers, and crisis management powers. And finally, where relevant, designated FMIs would be able to access the legal protection around settlement finality\u2014that is, some final clarity around where they sit and netting that currently exists under Part 5C of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, of course, the critical question is: in all these fine arrangements, have we got the details right? And this bill\u2019s been actually well signalled and well consulted over a number of years with the industry and so we have a reasonable confidence that the balance will be right. But we\u2019re interested, particularly, in when to test whether the broad powers of intervention given to the Reserve Bank and the FMA are justified, and, in particular, when bodies consider the market or specific institutions are in a state of distress\u2014the limit, where they make that decision, and whether that\u2019s set appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI suppose the point that worries me slightly is that when we look at the regulatory impact statement from the Reserve Bank, they make the point that the nature of the analysis of the regulatory impact statement\u2014which is where the officials sit down and work out whether the costs of a proposed new set of regulations are justified by the benefits, or that the costs are less than the benefits gained, which is what you need to do\u2014they\u2019re not particularly reassuring, to be honest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt says, \u201CThe Reserve Bank requested cost estimates from [the] industry during \u2026 consultations but only one organisation provided such figures. \u2026 A full cost-benefit analysis would normally provide more certainty that the proposals \u2026 have a net benefit for New Zealand. However, given the lack of cost estimates, alongside the low probability high impact nature of [an] FMI failure, [etc., etc.,] \u2026 [that any] full cost-benefit analysis is unlikely to be robust enough to provide meaningful additional information and could be misleading.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the upshot of that seems to be that they\u2019re really just having a guess as to whether the whole regime is justified, and so we will certainly be taking a great deal of interest in the select committee process, hearing directly from market participants to reassure us that this step towards greater regulation in this space is justified, that the appropriate levels are laid down, and that New Zealanders\u2014who, ultimately, pay for any costs imposed by regulation through fees in the banking system\u2014are getting something for that extra cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe need to actually see some numbers around that and have some real effort, because what often happens is that Government departments write a regulatory impact statement early on, at the start of a bill, and say, \u201CWell, we haven\u2019t actually got the detail. We don\u2019t really know, but we\u2019ll come back and come up with something more detailed later on in the process in the future.\u201D, and they never do. So once we\u2019ve started the process, it just rumbles on and we never actually get to the bottom of it. So we just want to signal right here, right now, that we\u2019ll be paying very close attention to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut, in the broader sense of the word, we\u2019re very supportive of the instinct behind the bill, and we\u2019re going to work constructively and collaboratively with the Government in the development of this legislation. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00220c48a7db0f504b23b30599abc0b9cba2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c48a7db0f504b23b30599abc0b9cba2\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the previous speaker, Mr Goldsmith, for the support for this bill to work on it at the select committee stage. I will, I think, look forward to working on it. It is quite a technical bill, and I just want to speak about a couple of things in connection with it today. What the bill does is it regulates financial market infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMy guess is that the people listening at home\u2014because, of course, there are lots of people listening at home to highly technical bills like this\u2014may not know what those financial market infrastructures are. It is a technical term. Let me give an example of one of the types of infrastructures\u2014one of the types of entities\u2014that will be regulated by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOne type of financial market infrastructure is a payment system. It\u2019s a payment system that needs to operate smoothly and effectively, and it\u2019s a payment system that everyone needs to have a degree of trust in, to ensure that all transactions happen smoothly on an ongoing basis. For people watching at home, the payment system that you\u2019re most likely to be familiar with is EFTPOS\u2014the EFTPOS system, a system that most of us use every day. It is probable that under this bill the EFTPOS system will be regulated as a financial market infrastructure. So payment systems are financial market infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESettlement systems are financial market infrastructures. That\u2019s systems or arrangements for making settlement or for processing settlement instructions. So that\u2019s quite important. There\u2019s a large one, NZClear, which needs to be regulated. It turns out that the average daily value of transactions that go through NZClear is about $7 billion. That\u2019s a lot of money, and we need to make sure that, again, it\u2019s being processed effectively and efficiently and that the people using it, and the entities using it, are sure that their transactions are going to be processed properly and that they can engage with that system with a fair degree of trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere are central counterparties (CCPs), which are entities which help to settle as a counterparty. So they become the buyer to every seller and the seller to every buyer. They, in effect, sit in between buyers and sellers, and it eliminates the credit risk to both parties. Again, that sounds like quite a complicated system. Everyone who\u2019s using it needs to be sure that it\u2019s going to be operating effectively and efficiently and that they can trust the system. We have just the one CCP in New Zealand, the New Zealand Clearing and Depository Corporation, NZCDC, and that operates as the central counterparty in markets operated by NZX\u2014by the New Zealand stock exchange. Again, there\u2019s several hundred million dollars of transactions going through that every day, so it\u2019s very important to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere are also trade repositories and central securities depositories\u2014again, financial market infrastructures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo these are all quite technical entities, and, for most of us, the way that we come into contact with them is through the very basic one of a payment system, the EFTPOS system. But they are important to the functioning of our trading systems, to the functioning of our markets, and to the functioning of our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt was very clear that the IMF thought we really did need to review our rules around them and to improve them. The process of consultation on this started back in 2013. It carried on through into 2015. So this bill has been a long time in gestation in terms of the consultation that has gone on around it to make sure that it was doing what it is supposed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo it started under the previous Government. It is being progressed under this Government. I think it likely that we will reach agreement on it, particularly if we do attend to the issues that are raised in select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere is one issue I wish to raise, and it\u2019s something that is puzzling me, and I think it\u2019s going to irritate me right the way through this bill: \u201Cfinancial market infrastructures\u201D. That plural word is somehow just tweaking something on my grammar wonk soul. I guess I\u2019ll just have to deal with it, because it looks like a technical term that\u2019s sitting in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dcefd843d6a476e9b7d4c4fd0f13e68\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d03497058d4dd4bcd265c6831700df\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pleased to hear that my colleague the Hon Judith Collins agrees with me. Ms Collins, I\u2019m sure that we will enjoy discussing it at length in the select committee process. I recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002224e5c56495c0410dba0aa8a7f185863f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224e5c56495c0410dba0aa8a7f185863f\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E It only seemed right that I should take the call on this matter, since peace has broken out across the House on it. Like the member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, the thought of \u201Cinfrastructures\u201D\u2014it\u2019s a bit like everything now is apparently a \u201Clearning\u201D. It just drives me nuts. Whatever happened to a lesson? But there we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThese are the big issues that Dr Deborah Russell and I will no doubt consider at length during the\u2014[Interruption] Oh, and the Hon Ron Mark wants to say so too. He agrees with me and Dr Russell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef2fa14510db4173946e5c1afbdcbe2e\u0022\u003EHon Ron Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I was just saying \u201CHi.\u201D and \u201CWelcome back.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2c13fa28b144cd5a92eb5f1570b5791\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh\u2014hi, and great to see you too, the Hon Ron Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThis bill has been around for a wee while coming through the process. You know, it\u2019s really not the sexiest bill this House is ever going to see. But Dr Russell and I will be very excited about it all, won\u2019t we? We\u2019ll talk about the grammar in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the things I think is interesting is that this bill has been around since 2015-16, after policy statements and work done by the Reserve Bank and the previous Government, of which I was part. Why is it that we\u2019re even doing it when everything seems to work quite well, one could well ask oneself? I guess the answer is probably because everything works pretty well and we haven\u2019t had any major issues but we really don\u2019t want to have any major issues in the future. So it\u2019s really about creating, as I see it, a bit of a safety net in relation to these payment systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ERe-reading certainly this bill\u2019s digest, I was thinking a little bit about the anti - money laundering and countering financing of terrorism legislation, for which I have to say I confess to having been the poor Minister who had to bring that through the House. That, again, was all about international markets and international payments and how we could do things and how we were going to stop New Zealand being used for money laundering. But, actually, I\u2019m not sure that it\u2019s made quite the big difference that people thought it was going to make. Why did we sign up to it? Because internationally we had to because, if we didn\u2019t, we were under some threat that, particularly, the European Union was going to take some measures against our banks and payment systems. So these are the sorts of things that we tend to sign ourselves up to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn this particular case, it\u2019s worthwhile to note that even though we are a small country\u2014smaller in population than Melbourne, although greater in size than the United Kingdom\u2014around NZ$35 billion flows through our financing, retail, and wholesale payment system each day, and I have to confess to having been responsible for quite a lot of that payment system and money flowing through, because I like to shop and help the local economy. And then we have\u2014it\u2019s just good to remember that on an annual basis that is around NZ$8 trillion flowing through the system. And yet, amazingly, it all seems to work quite well. So perhaps it\u2019s because of the light-handed touch that we already have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we will be supporting this bill, certainly at first reading. We\u2019re not indicating anything else, but I think there\u2019s not a lot of politics in this, so hopefully the select committee will be able to look at this bill and consider all of the measures in it as a team, working cross-party, to see whether or not all of it is necessary, whether it will, in fact, achieve the purposes, which are to promote the maintenance of a sound and efficient financial system, which, strangely, has worked quite well to date, and to avoid any significant damage to that system at some stage in the future. So, on the basis that we shouldn\u2019t have regulation unless it\u2019s going to actually add value to the people of New Zealand, we will support this bill. We will be looking at it and, I think, working very constructively in the select committee to make sure that we produce a bill that comes back to the House that is even better than the one that we currently have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00226c37ea33e3c24eaab98b7fdcc8d390dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c37ea33e3c24eaab98b7fdcc8d390dc\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak, on behalf of New Zealand First, to this bill, and just to address some of the concerns that were, I think, fairly addressed from the Opposition speakers. Firstly, in response to the Hon Judith Collins, yeah, a very constructive contribution, and I do love the terminology of working as a team in the select committee. Sometimes it can be very contentious, as you well know, Madam Speaker, but in this I think both the Opposition speakers\u2019 contributions have hit the nail on the head in that this is a fairly non-contentious piece of legislation that is technical in nature, and I think we can get on with working towards a select committee recommendation to the House quite effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EHaving said that and to put that in perspective, as both previous speakers in the Opposition noted, this bill comes to us over the length of several years. In fact, it was the IMA\u2014the international monetary authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c2226c5a3834aff9b66b8cfe198ca1c\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: IMF.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237fdb04da04e4beca237a32b0b98ff9d\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: IMF\u2014fund, sorry\u2014who came to New Zealand in 2016 and had a conversation about the operations of these systems, the mechanics\u2014\u201Cthe plumbing\u201D, as it has been colloquially called in the House this afternoon. It was a fair observation from the IMF that there is a high degree of risk, which the previous speaker has touched on. Actually, in New Zealand, the operations of the systems have been quite sound and we haven\u2019t had the worry that other nations around the world have unfortunately been exposed to, but that does not preclude the fact that we are operating under that risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll just touch on what it is we\u2019re technically talking about and what the bill sets out to achieve in the first reading. So the infrastructure legislation here, the financial market infrastructures (FMIs), refer to multilateral systems that provide trading, clearing, settlement, and reporting services in relation to payments, securities, derivatives, and other financial transactions. So that pretty much runs the whole gambit of financial interactions in markets in New Zealand. As, also, the previous speaker noted\u2014although I think that she implied that it was this year\u2014in 2016, in the retail and wholesale markets of those financial transaction markets, there is $35 billion of payments moving through those wholesale and retail markets every single day. That was a 2016 figure but it puts it in perspective. From memory, you\u2019re talking four times New Zealand\u2019s GDP in total over a year\u2014it\u2019s quite a significant sum of money. It gives you an indication of just that financial system mechanism\u2019s importance to the New Zealand economy and our sound operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EHowever, in New Zealand the regulation of FMIs is limited. I think that\u2019s why we agree we\u2019ve come to the House today. So what, I think, members will support is, fundamentally, this bill is about implementing new and more complete oversight regimes. Fundamentally, this is about accountability. So this has been a continuation of a long conversation, which is why I think the select committee process will be a productive one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI just want to end on what it is we\u2019re trying to achieve in terms of\u2014we\u2019ve heard about designated and non-designated FMIs. Actually, no, I\u2019ll just touch on the bill in terms of general monitoring of FMIs by giving regulators certain powers, and I just want to touch on those powers: the power to require operators or participants to provide information, the power to require an operator to obtain a report from an independent export on aspects of the FMI\u2019s business or operations, the power to appoint an investigator to examine the financial position or operation of the FMI, and the power to seek a warrant to enter premises to obtain evidence relevant to an investigation. So those powers are about accountability, as I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo I, too, look forward to the conversations and, actually, the submissions, because this was well notified to the public in a draft form several years ago. There has been a lot of public consultation on this and contribution to the drafting of this legislation that we see before us now. So, I think, what we will see going forward is about refinement, and I\u2019m all for that. So I look forward to that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022b577fe6cc177499693ddcb78ac66e653\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b577fe6cc177499693ddcb78ac66e653\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and lovely to see you back in the chair this year. It\u2019s my first opportunity to speak and I just wish everyone well and hope they had a great Christmas break and back for an exciting year, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve already heard that National is supporting this Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. I think, to some extent, there\u2019s been a lot of canvassing of what it means. I thought, for many people listening in, there are a lot of acronyms, there\u2019s a lot of terminology being used in this bill. I thought it might be useful to just spend a couple of minutes trying to put into layman\u2019s terms what this bill is actually trying to achieve. Essentially, we have\u2014and have for quite some time\u2014had alternative mechanisms, financial instruments, called derivatives, and the like, which financiers have used to buttress and to help with their trading of different financial instruments in the market. The derivatives act in a way that they disaggregate the risk and returns and actually help manage it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo, for instance, if you wanted to take on a fixed loan at a certain rate in a certain currency, and you were forced to do that\u2014let\u2019s say borrowing in New Zealand dollars\u2014you may at one point want to swap that out for Australian dollars and use a different interest rate. You can use derivatives to design the instrument that you actually, ultimately, want. Banks are the prime users of derivatives, but not exclusively so. A lot of our large financial institutions, ACC, all use these types of products to manage their risk and to, in a way, enhance their returns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo people have been talking about trade repositories and swap data\u2014this is the system by which all those derivatives are captured and actually collated so, actually, people can start to understand where the risk lies. You will recall, during the major meltdown in the world financial crisis, a lot of it was driven out of derivative trading and where people didn\u2019t actually understand the full amount of derivative risk that they had. So, as a result of the G20 coming together in September 2009, there were rules that were put together to try and make sure that from a worldwide perspective, there was enough understanding of where these liabilities lay and who was holding them, so that if ever there was a situation, it was clear where the liability actually lay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere are two types of derivative tradings. One is over the counter, and one is exchange trading. Now, exchange trading is basically\u2014the analogy is if you were selling and buying shares, you would be selling those shares over the New Zealand stock exchange, and, therefore, that\u2019s a very transparent transaction. There\u2019s no problem with those, and they\u2019re all accounted for, even if you\u2019re doing a derivative equivalent on an exchange. Where we have an issue is what\u2019s called over-the-counter trading, and that is where you have a direct trade between two parties that is not exposed to the transparency of an exchange. What this bill is, essentially, trying to do is put in place a better framework for dealing with those over-the-counter derivative trades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOriginally, it was this sort of opt-in arrangement where, if you\u2019re a financial institution\u2014and I just use ACC as an example. If it was trading over the counter, possibly some of those trades would be recorded, and, obviously, they would be, because they\u2019re a very reputable institution. But what this situation allows is for the regulator to say, basically, well, we want to capture those trades, and making sure that they come into this arrangement, which is what this bill is all about. So the powers for the regulator are quite significant. It moves, basically, from voluntary to a system where, at the behest of the regulator, they can make sure that for people who are obviously trading a lot or may be perceived as a higher risk, there is greater transparency around their trades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a whole lot of other stuff in the bill that we\u2019ll be going through in select committee, but, essentially, that is the purpose of this bill. Of course, it was a bill first proposed by National, and we\u2019re getting through to the stage where it\u2019s finally come back into the House. We need to move this bill through, but we will be making sure that it is appropriate and doesn\u2019t end up being inappropriate for a very significant level of financial trading that is done in New Zealand, but at the same time making sure we meet our international obligations. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u002201d2df786bd6406eb18bd28df44305fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201d2df786bd6406eb18bd28df44305fb\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Boy, did I get lucky today to get to speak on this bill, which, obviously, so many people have been fighting to get to speak on, and to offer the Green Party\u2019s support for the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. This is, basically, setting up regulation of financial market infrastructures (FMIs), and I must put on record that I share the view of Dr Russell and the Hon Judith Collins, of my concern and discomfort with pluralising \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D. I hope the committee does debate that quite thoroughly, because it\u2019s jarring, and I think we want our legislation, the titles particularly, not to be quite so jarring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI would recommend anyone who\u2019s following this debate or looking at this speech randomly to go to the speeches of Dr Russell and the previous speaker, Mr Bayly, for, actually, a fuller understanding of what financial market infrastructures are. It was described by a previous speaker as the plumbing of our financial system, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019m going to be the best person to represent the detail of it, and I would commend people to those speeches. I don\u2019t think that the phrase \u201C[these infrastructures are] systems that provide trading, clearing, settlement, and reporting services [for] payments, securities, derivatives, and other financial transactions.\u201D will mean anything to most New Zealanders. But I am encouraged that we have James Shaw on behalf of the Green Party who will be engaging with the detail of this, along with others in this House who are more familiar with this context and language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI have heard in some of the previous speeches an issue or concern raised that there doesn\u2019t seem to be a problem in the system, so just a questioning about the need for this legislation. I would note that the need or the value of this was raised by the International Monetary Fund in looking at this as our position within a global system, and that the Cabinet paper also recognises market failure in this area, in four particular areas. So, one, that there are currently coordination difficulties across the financial market infrastructure, high concentration of market power, which means if there\u2019s failure\u2014and the example that was given previously of one financial market infrastructure being EFTPOS\u2014in that system, that would have massive impact on our entire economy. So we have an interest as a country and a responsibility, I would argue, as this House of ensuring that we have appropriate oversight and can do whatever\u2019s possible to prevent any failure in that area. And imperfect information\u2014that many people who are participating and using, say, derivatives or engaging in other aspects of the financial system; historically, we\u2019ve seen the consequences of when people are not aware of the risks that they may be exposed to because of the complexity of many of these arrangements. So this legislation helps us create a system to give assurance to people and to reduce that risk or ensure people are aware of it where it exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe fourth point of market failure that was identified in the Cabinet paper was negative network externalities where a financial market infrastructure operator may not fully consider the wider social cost of their conduct. So I think that really is raising, in more simple language, I guess, that it can be very easy for businesses to consider their work in a very narrow frame without looking at the impact on the entire society. There is a responsibility for us, when we\u2019re looking at our financial system, to make sure that it is fitting with the rest of our social context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo it will address this market failure by establishing information-gathering powers that allow for ongoing regulatory oversight and monitoring, will create a designation scheme to enable the creation of regulatory standards for FMI operators, and provide for different types of penalties for breaches, which will include civil penalties for technical breaches and criminal for high-level moral culpability. We do need to acknowledge the potential and the historical international experience of that. It also creates significant crisis management powers for regulators, including establishing statutory power to issue directions to financial market infrastructure operators or institute a statutory management plan when specific grounds are met. So they\u2019re the key parts of what this legislation does, and we are happy to support it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002209a0c1e4cf1342b49996b6987b118b87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209a0c1e4cf1342b49996b6987b118b87\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hesitated to get to my feet because I was reading some quite interesting background to this bill in the debate pack. First of all, I have to confirm that National does support the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill at its first reading. The information I was reading as I was preparing related to retail and other payment systems in New Zealand, which up until now have performed relatively well but have been only lightly regulated. Issues around particularly retail payment systems have been highlighted for a number of years in New Zealand, and successive Ministers have been working progressively to address some of the more light-handed regulatory settings around matters to do with financial market infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo the background to this bill\u2014and I congratulate Minister Grant Robertson for picking up this work and then bringing it to the House\u2014really started to form in 2015 and 2016 when the Reserve Bank placed forward some policy proposals to update the regulatory regime for financial market infrastructures. The National Government of the day endorsed those proposals and, several years later, we now have the bill giving effect to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe bill, effectively, replaces the existing regulatory regime for financial market infrastructures, and they are contained within the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. The purpose of the new regime is, overall, to promote the maintenance of a sound and efficient financial system. That has got to be the prime purpose of this bill and its Act, but also importantly as a safety net to avoid significant damage to the financial system that could result from problems with a financial market infrastructure\u2014promote participation in businesses, investors, and consumers in financial markets. One of the features of the New Zealand sharemarket\u2014the NZX\u2014is that the market is finding it hard to find companies to register, and also investors, and often people in financial circles talk about the lack of depth in the New Zealand financial markets. So one of the prime reasons that New Zealand supports this bill is the very fact that this bill seeks and intends to strengthen that confidence in financial markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EOne more point\u2014because I know there are other speakers to follow\u2014the new regime will apply to more entities than the current one. So the scope of the Financial Markets Authority will widen and capture more financial markets institutions. We do support this bill. I do have a question\u2014regrettably, I don\u2019t sit in the committee, but I will follow this\u2014on just how the new regime will capture over-the-counter trades. It was an issue that was raised by Andrew Bayly just before. I will be interested to see the mechanism by which that comes about. That is the work of the select committee. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022dca0123bd8b3486dbcaba68268d356d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dca0123bd8b3486dbcaba68268d356d2\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m so pleased to actually join the chorus of support for this bill, the\u2014let\u2019s get it right\u2014Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. I\u2019ve stood here and I\u2019ve listened to all of the speeches that have gone before me and, as my colleague Dr Deborah Russell said, it is a very, very technical bill. In fact, I\u2019d be very surprised if people are still watching Parliament TV right now and actually following what is going on, because a certain few people actually understand what goes on inside our financial market infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI guess, to cut a long story short, we\u2019ve obviously, as a Government, as a Parliament, had some learnings off the back of the global financial crisis. If this bill is going to help us to be able to better navigate ourselves whenever there is a financial market failure, then obviously it should be supported. I\u2019m not going to go into the detail of it. I know that, when it comes to our Finance and Expenditure Committee, we will go through it with a fine-toothed comb. Everybody around the House seems to support it; so I do too. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad3c4b3533944344b97ac0aa703e32d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad3c4b3533944344b97ac0aa703e32d4\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise today and to give my first speech in the House in 2020, and can I say I\u2019m looking forward to the year ahead. No matter which side of the House you sit on, welcome back to Parliament. It\u2019s a pleasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re here today discussing the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. We\u2019ve certainly learned a lot today in the House, whether it\u2019s from Andrew Bayly about derivatives, whether it\u2019s about the definition of learnings or lessons from the Hon Judith Collins, or whether it\u2019s the technicalities of FMIs\u2014or financial market infrastructures\u2014from Deborah Russell. But I just want to recap, for the readers at home, the purpose of this bill, because it is a very important bill and important to the ongoing sustainability of our financial system here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe purpose is, really, to introduce a new regime to designate some financial market infrastructures as systemically important. For those of you at home, you may remember back in 2008\u2014and I remember very clearly\u2014learning this terminology called \u201Csystemically important\u201D. It was in relation to Lehman Brothers, which, of course, is not covered by this bill. It\u2019s a bank; it\u2019s not an infrastructure. But the purpose of this bill is to extend the definition of \u201Csystemically important\u201D to financial market infrastructures. That includes everything from payment systems, reconciliation systems, and IT systems that go with our financial infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI want to be clear to those at home who might be thinking, \u201CWell, The National Party is about minimal regulation. What are they doing supporting this bill?\u201D I want to be clear about why we\u2019re supporting this. Firstly, the payment system every day\u2014have a guess at how much goes through our payment systems here in New Zealand. Thirty-five billion dollars goes through our payment systems here in New Zealand every day, or annually $8 trillion, which is around a third of the US gross domestic product. So it\u2019s a really important part of our financial system, and we want to make sure that for those businesses and organisations that underpin that system, in terms of infrastructure, if these organisations are systemically important, there is heightened awareness and regulations over those systemically important infrastructures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut what does that mean? It means, in effect, it\u2019s not going to be over-regulation. What we\u2019re really talking about is a tiered approach to regulation. Some financial infrastructures will be designated as \u201CTier 1, systemically important\u201D; \u201CTier 2\u201D; or \u201CTier 3\u201D. For those who are Tier 1, systemically important, we\u2019re really just talking about contingency plans. These financial market infrastructure companies need to have contingency plans in place in case, can I say, the shit hits the fan. The second tier, Tier 2, is where the regulatory bodies can, in fact, give directions to financial market infrastructures, which is a little bit more involved. The highest tier is Tier 3, which is where we appoint a statutory manager.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo that is, at the moment, the extent of the regulatory powers. I think it\u2019s the right level of regulation. The National Party will support this to select committee, and we support this bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2e50e2b327b40a0978b95adc05e62b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2e50e2b327b40a0978b95adc05e62b0\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take my first call of the year in the House and follow the member from Northcote, Dan Bidois, with his rather colourful language, but I certainly appreciate the contribution. Thank you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from various speakers around the importance of sound and efficient financial systems. Generally speaking, we do have sound and efficient financial systems, but we have heard for a number of years from agencies like the International Monetary Fund, and particularly work done by the Reserve Bank, that we do need a bit more regulation. Hence this bill has come to the House. I acknowledge the Minister Grant Robertson for bringing it to the House, and I acknowledge the previous Government for the work they did on this bill as well. It\u2019s good to see that there is cross-party support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe heard from Dr Deborah Russell around the aspect of EFTPOS transactions, just using one example of what this bill might cover. Now, if we look at society and we go back many years\u2014I\u2019m not sure anyone in this House remembers\u2014there was a period of bartering as a society, when we didn\u2019t have any cash.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThen we moved to cash, and for many years people used cash to fulfil transactions. However, we\u2019re quite quickly moving to a cashless society. In fact, for me personally, I very rarely carry cash, which gets rather embarrassing when raffles are put in front of my face. I\u2019m sure many members of this House and many people at home do not carry cash. So we\u2019re particularly reliant on financial systems, financial transactions, and we\u2019ve heard that there is $35 billion a day worth of transactions going through. Now, it\u2019s absolutely vital that this system is robust, that it is sound, and that it is efficient. So as a Government, and, in fact, as a Parliament, we\u2019re doing the right thing by putting some regulation in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI mentioned before that the Reserve Bank has done a little bit of work in this area. The Reserve Bank oversees New Zealand\u2019s financial market infrastructures\u2014the FMIs\u2014such as payment and settlement systems for the purpose of promoting the maintenance of a sound and efficient financial system. FMIs are a critical element of the financial system and are highly relevant for the Reserve Bank\u2019s core responsibilities that stem from its financial stability objective. The Reserve Bank, in March 2015, following consultation, published a policy statement on its oversight of FMIs to reflect the recently updated Principles for Financial Market Infrastructures issued by the Committee on Payment and Market Infrastructures and the Technical Committee of the International Organization of Securities Commissions. So the Reserve Bank has effectively been leading a piece of work, which has now come to Parliament and is about to be, I expect, passed into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a second point that I\u2019d like to highlight, and that is the fact that this bill provides a framework that would bring the regulation of FMIs in New Zealand broadly into line with international standards. We heard from the speaker Judith Collins around the IMF and other international agencies who have been talking with New Zealand about needing a bit more regulation. So in a way we have been a little bit of an outlier compared to many other OECD countries. So it\u2019s good to see that we are coming into line with international standards in a sensible and proportionate manner that avoids unnecessary costs. And we heard from the speaker before that we do have to be careful around regulation, and I absolutely agree with that. But carefully placed, sound regulation certainly will help to ensure the robustness of our financial systems, which is absolutely important. We all rely on these financial systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe new regime is tailored to the needs and systemic importance of individual FMIs. This approach focuses regulation on the most important FMIs while minimising barriers to entry and compliance costs, which might otherwise hinder new entrants and the development of new products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard, I think, a range of views and a range of information. I\u2019ve just added in a little bit there just to highlight a few extra points. Without further ado, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00223ffb90dfb6294192945a94a51ad4eec1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ffb90dfb6294192945a94a51ad4eec1\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I listen to this debate on the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill, it strikes me that we all take our banking system absolutely for granted. We think it\u2019s safe. Our salaries, our wages; for everyday New Zealanders, it goes into their bank accounts and over the next week or fortnight they withdraw it out with a number of transactions\u2014and, as Mr Strange says, probably more by EFTPOS these days than by cash\u2014little credit or little doubt is given to the fact that that system could actually fail. I recall quite vividly, it was the National Government that came in in 2008 as the world entered the global financial crisis, and suddenly we realised that those financial institutions we deal with may not be as safe as we thought they were. Whilst New Zealand was relatively immune from the collapse of our own financial institutions, the same certainly could not be said for the likes of America. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation is largely the result of work carried out by the IMF\u2014the International Monetary Fund\u2014following the global financial crisis, which is now 12 years ago, which shows how long it takes for countries right around the world to accept that financial institutions need to be regulated. And, of course, now we have the work done by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, finally culminating in this legislation presented to the House today, which National will support to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve listened to the contributions from many of the speakers, most of them\u2014in fact, I think all of them\u2014have remarked on how complex this issue is. We have words like \u201Csecurities\u201D and \u201Cderivatives\u201D and \u201Cdepositories\u201D and \u201Ctrade repositories\u201D, all of which come together in the settlement of funds on a daily basis to ensure that we have a banking system that works, and that is safe for all depositors wherever they live\u2014but, particularly, the ones that we\u2019re concerned about are New Zealand depositors\u2014to know that their money deposited in a bank is safe, and that they can get their money out when they want. That\u2019s the essence of this legislation today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ll support it to select committee. The two things I want to particularly watch before the select committee are: what are the benefits\u2014and if it results in a safer banking system, which is required in this day and age, then I\u2019m all for it\u2014but I\u2019ll equally be watching for the costs, because this reform may well come at a cost. If it comes at a cost, I suspect already that cost will then not be picked up by the banks; it will be a cost that\u2019s passed on to those people who are the customers of the bank, particularly the borrowers. So I think as we analyse the work through the select committee\u2014and the Finance and Expenditure Committee will do the job thoroughly\u2014they\u2019re the two things we need to watch: identify the benefits and be very, very aware of the costs that, ultimately, will be imposed on to the depositors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EBut, having said that, as I said at the start of my contribution: above all else, we all require a banking system in this country that we have faith in and that we know will not fail. As we move from those dim, dark days of 2008\u201412 years ago\u2014of the global financial crisis, it\u2019s important that we move with the time, modernise our banking system, and make sure it\u2019s securer, and safe to deliver that security to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222c1be2903e354997b0ad8adc62be3d2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c1be2903e354997b0ad8adc62be3d2c\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I think the previous speaker has alluded to what happened in 2008. I think what really happened in 2008 is that New Zealanders, and, indeed, many around the world, suddenly understood how vulnerable they were to what happened on the world markets, particularly Wall Street. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENo one had heard of derivatives outside the financial markets at that stage. I do recall reading some literature about the lead-up to 2008\u2014there was a meeting in Davos, Switzerland, where one of the leading regulators in the world stood up and some of the biggest, greatest financial brains and investors were at that meeting. He explained derivatives to the crowd, and, at the end of it, he asked: \u201CHow many of you really have any idea what I\u2019ve just said?\u201D, and there were very few hands that went up. Yet there was hardly a financial institution, especially the major banks in the United States, that didn\u2019t have extreme exposure to those derivatives. What they were was a gathering up of very poor quality loans, mortgages into multimillion-dollar packages\u2014the theory being that the good ones would offset the bad ones if anything went wrong. The problem being: they were all bad ones. These whole derivative packages would be made up of loans that had been made to what were called NINJAs\u2014no income, no job, and no prospects. Bringing that forward then, what it did is it made us all understand just how vulnerable we all were to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo bring us forward to this piece of legislation: the Financial Market Infrastructures Bill. What we need to assure and reassure those who are in managed funds, those who may even have their money in the bank, is that there is a playing field which is being regulated so that those who were rendered vulnerable, those who lost money\u2014and you can think of any number of organisations in New Zealand. Blue Chip investments was one that, again\u2014so many of those who\u2019d worked hard all their lives and had their savings, and had those savings decimated through a number of these activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s incredibly important that we, those who have money that is moving through the financial systems, have some confidence that there is some regulation. Just to give an example of what happens if there is no regulation\u2014of course, we\u2019ve got the block chain, bitcoin, which is actually happening, which is completely unregulated. We are continually hearing of problems in that industry, if you will call it that, which are a net result of absolutely no regulation; the jungle rules. That is why it is only the courageous who are putting their money into that area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I have no hesitation in commending this bill as the last speaker on this, the first reading of this bill today. And I think that those who are watching, those who\u2019ve survived this long through the debate, should feel some satisfaction that there is now some work across the House being done to inure them against future financial shocks. I commend this bill to the House, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8e7d40305804cf0a6e58b4c80c80970\u0022\u003EFinancial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d65b4e06fa0e4604abb9c15cb398c5d2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00222d83875f7f3845a080cf56e210bee2a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d83875f7f3845a080cf56e210bee2a0\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill and to report back by 23 June this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill will create a broad regime governing the conduct of financial institutions such as banks, insurers, and non-bank deposit takers. The ultimate aim of this new regime is to improve the conduct of financial institutions and to help rebuild trust and confidence in our financial sector. This will serve the needs and interests of everyday consumers and lift wellbeing across the board. This is particularly important and timely given the problems that have been occurring in the financial sector, and the various reviews that have taken place which led to the introduction of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThere have been several recent reviews into the conduct of financial institutions, including the 2018 royal commission into financial services and the reviews into banks and life insurers in New Zealand undertaken by the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) and the Reserve Bank. These reviews showed that there are extensive weaknesses in the conduct and culture of institutions in New Zealand\u2019s financial sectors, particularly in respect of governance and management of conduct risks and lack of focus on outcomes for customers. The reviews also highlighted a gap in New Zealand\u2019s regulatory settings, in that there is currently no explicit legislative mandate for the regulation of the general conduct of financial institutions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESome of the examples that were heard, either in the consultation that was held by the agency or the investigation by the Reserve Bank and the FMA, were numerous. In one example, a 25-year-old with no dependents was sold a life insurance policy by his bank when he signed up for KiwiSaver. The bank, essentially, led him to believe that buying the life insurance was required as part of joining KiwiSaver. I\u2019ve also heard about a person with tetraplegia who was sold a life insurance with a clause excluding tetraplegia, which made the cover, essentially, meaningless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EFinancial institutions and the products and services that they provide are an essential part of a well-functioning society. Financial products and services are a critical part of our everyday lives as well as our long-term wellbeing. They enable us to save for the things that we want, to borrow for a house, or to cover ourselves against an unexpected loss. Banking and insurance in particular play an integral role in people\u2019s lives. So we\u2019ve moved swiftly to fast track measures in these areas to protect consumers and to maintain confidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIt is vital that New Zealanders can trust their banks and insurers and be treated fairly by them. Treating consumers fairly is essential to building trust in the finance sector. It will be a win-win for consumers and the financial sector if we can all have more confidence that banks and insurers are placing fair treatment of consumers at the heart of their businesses, that financial products are being designed and sold with a view to best meeting consumers\u2019 needs, and that consumers don\u2019t face unreasonable pressure to retain or to change products that may no longer be useful for their particular situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe new conduct regime that this bill creates is seeking to help cement this trust. In order to address these problems and in turn build the necessary trust in the industry, the bill will implement a package of changes. The bill requires banks, insurers, and non-bank deposit takers to be licensed by the Financial Markets Authority in respect of their general conduct, and licensing gives consumers confidence that licensed entities have been checked and meet the appropriate standards of conduct. Moreover, it also establishes an ongoing supervisory relationship between an entity and the regulator. Licensing will provide the FMA with a full range of tools to monitor, supervise, and enforce the new regime. It\u2019s not about having an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff but more about enabling the FMA to work with entities to prevent harm in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill also centres on an overarching fair treatment principle. Licensed institutions and their intermediaries must comply with this principle, which will require them to treat consumers fairly. Financial institutions will also be required to establish, to implement, and to maintain an effective fair conduct programme, and this requirement is a way for financial institutions to operationalise the fair conduct principle and turn the principle into concrete actions within the entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe conduct programme will require licensed entities to have policies, processes, systems, and controls in place to ensure they\u2019re considering consumers\u2019 interests and treating them fairly in all aspects of their business. This requirement reflects that fair treatment of consumers is a broad concept that touches on and goes to the heart of every aspect of business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOur financial institutions as well as their intermediaries will be required to comply with the fair conduct programme. Where more detailed obligations are required, regulations can provide more guidance, but at its core this is about ensuring institutions think about customers all of the time. This approach allows flexibility too. Rather than the Government or the regulator prescriptively laying out exactly what those concrete actions must be for every licensed institution, instead this approach enables each financial institution to determine what policy systems and controls make best sense for their business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIndustry may have concerns about overlaps of regulatory requirements, such as with the consumer credit legislation and whether this new regime will require businesses to duplicate different compliance activities. The conduct programme requirement allows financial institutions to take a coordinated and a flexible approach to different regulatory requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill will also create the ability to prescribe regulations relating to incentives which financial institutions and their intermediaries will be required to comply with. These regulations will be the mechanism through which sales incentives based on volume and value targets will be prohibited, and this prohibition applies not just to licensed entities but also to all intermediaries throughout the supply chain. It\u2019s also about any and all incentives, whether monetary, such as commissions, bonuses, or other non-monetary rewards like leader boards or trips abroad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve taken this approach because conflicted remuneration and incentives are one of the biggest issues driving poor outcomes for consumers in the financial sector. As the Australia royal commission found, in almost every case the conduct at issue was driven not only by the relevant entity\u2019s pursuit for profit but also an individual\u2019s pursuit for gain. This prohibition on target-based incentives will address the fact that targets create an increasingly strong incentive to sell and therefore can encourage the person making the sale to prioritise their own interests over those of the customer. This prohibition still allows people to be remunerated for sales, but removes the particularly problematic target-based remuneration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe regime also contains strong civil pecuniary penalties if a financial institution or intermediary contravenes an obligation within the law. Compensation for affected consumers can also be sought by any persons. Officials have recently consulted with financial institutions about how the bill will work in practice, and I have heard concerns that industry have raised around certain aspects of the bill; for instance, how the framework of the bill works in relation to intermediaries, the requirements related to conduct programmes, and the timing for implementation of the changes, and we will be watching the select committee process very closely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders do need to be confident that the financial products and services that they are buying will be appropriate for their circumstances and meet their needs. By introducing this bill to improve conduct in the financial sector, we\u2019re putting the consumer at the centre and helping banks and insurers to ensure trust and confidence in their industry. We will all benefit from a well-functioning finance sector that\u2019s focused on the interests and needs of consumers. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00220d911fa3df794b98a337553577880bb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d911fa3df794b98a337553577880bb7\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I rise to speak on this bill in its first reading, I just want to note that both the bill itself and some comments we\u2019ve heard tonight\u2014both on this bill but also in the one immediately preceding it\u2014show that this is a Government that\u2019s always on the lookout for perceived problems and that\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223202ee1a1c0940738d8a396bac1a2ca8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee03335782d4454b9c270fd4937bfcaf\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: You needed to do the thing, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8bad2c90be4b7abd2e402d9b8e20c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I forgot to say, \u201CThe question is that the motion be agreed to.\u201D My apologies. Carry on, Mr Hudson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253b1a6888ba840a19660a9c94c596ac1\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Well, we\u2019ll get to whether we agree to the motion in a few minutes, I think. This is a Government that clearly is always on the lookout for perceived problems. Now, looking for problems itself is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem with them is that they see the solution to any problem, real or perceived, as more Government. More and more often, which is even worse, they see the solution for more Government as being regulation-making power, sidestepping the authority and role of this Parliament in the setting of rules, legislation, in this country. This bill is another example of precisely that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI want to start by referring back to the work undertaken and the reports issued by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) with respect to banks and by the RBNZ and the Financial Markets Authority together with respect to the insurance industry. Both of those reports make it very clear that they did not find many actual instances of bad behaviour. They didn\u2019t find evidence, in many cases, that bad things had taken place. What they say they found was a lack of process and documentation to satisfy them that the conduct\u2014the way the banks and insurance companies go about managing their business, and particularly through those sales channels\u2014did not satisfy them that it looked robust enough for their purposes or for their desires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, business controls are a good thing in any business, particularly a larger business. They help to ensure that the business is run well and that instances such as this, where they interface with customers, are run appropriately. But having come from, at least, actually, more than one multinational business in my history, I can tell this Parliament that when business controls take over, and the controls become the outcome in themselves rather than the governance of the behaviour or the actual business outcome, then they are merely an anchor on a business, creating enormous amounts of work and compliance activities and cost, and often\u2014mostly, in fact\u2014yielding no tangible benefit for the end customer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EUltimately, because they add cost and effort and time, they add no real benefit\u2014true benefit\u2014to the business either. But what they do and why they come about and why more and more of them get layered on is because a group of people feel more confident within the business that they can prove that something was done the right way\u2014the way they see the right way as being. Now, we need to be focused, across the economy but even here in our financial institutions, on making sure the outcome is right, that our institutions are offering products that are fit for purpose and that they\u2019re fit for the customers that they are selling them to and that they behave appropriately in that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, arguably, that doesn\u2019t need a whole rule book of processes and documents to evidence that. The Minister himself in charge of this bill actually saw through to conclusion the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, which the previous National Government introduced, which had a very simple way of dealing with\u2014well, I would argue\u2014the exact matters he wishes to address in this bill. It placed a duty, an obligation, on those financial advisers to act in the best interests of the customer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, you could achieve the same thing here with what he\u2019s doing about what he calls his fair conduct programme simply by having a provision that the institution is responsible for ensuring that the actions of the institution and its employees and intermediaries are in the interests of the customer. There are already provisions to deal with transgressions such as under the Financial Markets Conduct Act, the provision for the company to be fined up to three times the gain made or loss avoided up to a maximum $5 million for such transgressions. They could do that. There you go. Don\u2019t need a big, long rule book. Don\u2019t need tons and tons of compliance, proof, and behaviour. Place the obligation on the institution. Make it clear that it applies to employees and how they want to do it with intermediaries. The tools are already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBecause if an institution is going to suffer that sort of penalty for getting it wrong, they\u2019re going to make sure they don\u2019t get it wrong. If they\u2019re going to suffer that sort of potential penalty, if one or more of their employees or intermediaries takes actions for personal gain ahead of the interests of the customer, which I\u2019d argue are also actually the long-term interests of the business, then they\u2019re going to make sure that they\u2019ve got the management and process oversight to make sure it doesn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAnd that flows on to the point I also want to spend some time on, which is this regulation-making power, which the Minister\u2019s own words tells us pretty strongly is all about banning incentives. Well, first problem is it\u2019s simply a blanket regulation-making power, which means that if we agree to this, then the Minister and their officials will fundamentally be able to decide at their whim what incentives can be curtailed or banned, what roles they can apply to at any time\u2014any time at all. So it\u2019s signing a very blank cheque for that sort of power-making to what, in effect, is officials, because this Government won\u2019t argue with their officials on these sorts of matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut first of all, even the fact that the regulation-making power they want is far too powerful. The first problem with it is that it actually shows a lack of understanding of business, certainly in the Government, but I worry also with officials. Because here\u2019s the reality\u2014how are these businesses going to transact if they don\u2019t have people actually selling their wares to customers? It\u2019s how businesses operate. Whether they\u2019re a product business or a services-based business, someone\u2019s actually got to sell the offering to the client or customer. The reality is the people that put themselves in that position as salespeople tend to be people that value the risk and reward that comes with being successful. They tend to sacrifice some salary up front with the possibility of overachieving if they deliver against a set of sales targets\u2014all of which should be, and normally are, managed by controls across the business, referring back to my earlier point about the obligation to act in the interests of the customer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESo this idea of regulating sales incentives to the extent that, one, the Government might ban some or potentially all of them simply cuts across a fundamental necessity of operating a business. Now, I met with a business in the industry. I won\u2019t name them. They had voluntarily taken sales incentives from their own sales staff. Guess what happened? Sales dropped. Well, that comes as no surprise to anyone who\u2019s worked in business. There are better and less onerous ways of ensuring an obligation to ensure the outcome that a customer is not going to be harmed simply because there is a person who may have some salary incentive to sell certain products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAlso, to that point, of course, which worries me deeply because I\u2019ve heard this before\u2014the Minister tonight said that the sales incentives they want to ban are the ones that are based on volume or value. Well, here\u2019s a challenge which backs up my immediate previous point. I challenge anyone to name me a sales incentive that is not either based on value of sale or sales or volume. It\u2019s fundamental. So if his intention is to ban sales incentives to do with volume or value, he\u2019s basically just said to us all his intention is to ban every sales incentive he possibly can. It\u2019s ludicrous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThere are better ways to deal with this. There are better ways to ensure that businesses are transacting and behaving appropriately with their customers. I fear that this is rooted in this belief on the other side that if you\u2019re doing something for profit, you\u2019re bad, and if you make profit, it only comes at the expense of doing over your customer. That is not the case in the real world, at least. It might seem so in some of the hallowed halls in this place, but it\u2019s not the case in the real world. The simple solution, as I have said, would be to place an obligation of the best interests of the customer certainly on the institution\u2014it could be done down to an employee or someone with a sales incentive\u2014and then let the mechanisms and the penalties which exist in our law today cover that. Get it right. Get the penalty right. Every incentive will be there for the business, its management, and the employees to act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e80c3c956c1c482b8c4f91c5f111f3fb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very, very sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for the House to adjourn for the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289589833493d4fe5b8107dcb3ced9101\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this bill is actually a lot like the Prime Minister\u2019s speech today: very, very long on promises and good intentions, but woefully let down in the execution. We\u2019ll be constructive on the select committee, but we will not support the bill in the form it\u2019s currently in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2c2ea7e1ac14cfea467ddd19aabedbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2c2ea7e1ac14cfea467ddd19aabedbf\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m delighted to hear that the Opposition will be constructive on the select committee. I know that the promise that Mr Hudson has made is a sincere one because in the recent firearms legislation bill that we\u2019ve worked on together on that particular committee, that has indeed been a very constructive relationship. So I\u2019m sure there will be a constructive relationship on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to regulate the conduct of financial markets institutions, and Mr Hudson in his speech raised a couple of interesting points and they\u2019re related. He said, first of all, that on this side of the House we perhaps didn\u2019t understand the need for businesses to make a profit and that we felt that making a profit was a bad thing. I reject that view. What we want to be sure of is that businesses make a fair profit and that businesses make a profit in the service of their customers, not at the expense of their customers. We all know that trade benefits both or all partners, but unfair trade exploits one partner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat we want to make sure of is that there is fair trade between institutions and their customers, and Mr Hudson raised the point. He said, \u201CWas there any evidence, really, that, in fact, there had been problems with financial institutions, and, in particular, the financial institutions of the sort that are being dealt with in this bill?\u201D, and the answer is yes, there have been problems. In particular, there\u2019s some really interesting evidence around so-called soft commissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, a soft commission is when we\u2019re talking about individual consumers\u2014retail consumers like you and me. They are commissions where the person, the employee\u2014the member of the institution\u2014is paid, not necessarily in hard dollars, but in a benefit. In particular, an overseas trip might be the reward for selling a particular number of financial instruments\u2014a particular number of KiwiSaver memberships, a particular number of insurance policies, or a particular number of investment schemes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt turns out that in May 2018, the Financial Markets Authority looked at soft commissions in the life and health insurance industry, and these people are quite hard-nosed. They concluded that soft commissions were effective sales incentives for financial advisers. They found that a higher value of these soft commissions was related to higher sales incomes for insurers. They found that increased spending by insurers on soft commissions appeared to relate to increased sales\u2014perhaps by only a small amount, but it was there. The qualification date for trips overseas appeared to coincide and to correspond with a peak in sales. When one insurer removed their overseas trips as a sales incentive, their sales dropped by about a third\u2014so that\u2019s quite significant\u2014but only 42 percent of commissions required the adviser to sell a particular number or a value, so there was a real incentive going on there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a tricky problem. Of course we want to motivate people to do their jobs and to do them well, and of course, in a sales-oriented industry, making sales is critical. But at what point does a commission provide an incentive, so that instead of selling the customer a product they genuinely need or a product that will genuinely serve them, the real service that is performed is the commission that is paid to the sales agent? That\u2019s a very tricky point to judge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, this bill does not set out to make that judgment in itself, but it does require institutions to set up rules for themselves as to how they will conduct themselves to set up understandings in institutions as to what is a reasonable way to remunerate sales staff and what is not. I think it is worth remembering that, in terms of these so-called sales staff, in some institutions these are bank tellers. They are financial advisers. Their objective is to help a customer or a client to structure their finances as best possible, but their advice is being skewed by the presence of a commission. So how do we get institutions to regulate that? Well, we invite them to think about them themselves, and this is what this bill does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, I agree there are some pretty complex issues in this bill, and I think it is worth spending our time discussing it at select committee as to whether or not this will be effective and as to whether or not the rules will actually work in the way in which they are intended. I know from my previous experience of working with people across the aisle, such as Mr Hudson and Mr Young, who are interested in these sorts of areas, that we will have a constructive and reasonable discussion about it. But it is a discussion worth having, and that is why I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u0022b89583938a3642f8b62a9049bbfb81de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b89583938a3642f8b62a9049bbfb81de\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have so looked forward to speaking on this nonsense bill. It\u2019s obvious to me that the Government have a very low legislative programme and they have thought, \u201CWhat can we do to fill the Order Paper?\u201D, and here we are. We have a bill that\u2019s addressing a problem that has been predominantly in Australia that the Reserve Bank and the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) looked at in New Zealand and could not find anywhere near the same problem. They saw some areas that could need some work on, but to bring a piece of legislation into the House to do that is, I think, essentially filibustering by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ECan I say, one of the goals of this bill is to protect the interests of the consumer, but it was probably less than two years ago that this House passed a bill called the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill. The purpose of that bill required all people who give regulated financial advice to comply with standards of ethical behaviour, conduct, and client care. So what we are doing today is Groundhog Day\u2014we\u2019re doing the same thing two years later because this Government doesn\u2019t have a strong legislative programme. We are repeating what has already been achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite interesting, because one particular firm who I respect\u2014Chapman Tripp\u2014analysed this bill, and they said this. They said that you have to be very careful regarding this bill because \u201CThe proposed legislation regulates the banks, insurers and non-bank deposit takers which are already subject to registration and licensing regimes under [the Reserve Bank of New Zealand]. Care will need to be taken to ensure that the further licensing obligations under the FMCA are streamlined, the licensors are co-ordinated and the obligations are consistent and not duplicated.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo this bill that was passed within the last couple of years, the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill, was to bring those elements of care to clients regarding commission payments\u2014that if somebody was going to receive a remuneration from selling a financial product, they had to disclose it and they had a limitation to declare that there were other similar products out there in the market place. So somebody couldn\u2019t say, \u201CYou\u2019ve got to have this; this is the only product that you need to have and I\u2019m here to sell it to you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s interesting that if you go to the FMA website\u2014and they make this comment about the Financial Service Providers Register, which the bill established two years ago\u2014they said, \u201CAll financial service providers in New Zealand must be registered on the Financial Service Providers Register to legally provide financial services. There is a requirement to also be licensed by the FMA or the Reserve Bank to provide some financial services. Financial service providers include financial advisers, brokers, building societies, credit providers, credit unions, money changers, finance companies, foreign currency exchange dealers, fund managers, insurers, investment portfolio managers, issuers, and registered banks.\u201D So there\u2019s already a regime in place put in by this Parliament to protect consumers, and, by law, registered banks need to register as a financial service provider. When we look through this bill, all it does is exactly the same thing. It\u2019s Groundhog Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EChapman Tripp went on to say, \u201CHowever, significant costs are expected to fall on banks, insurers [and non-bank deposit takers] and their intermediaries selling products to retail customers. Compliance costs are expected to be moderate to high as noted by the Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment in their Regulatory Impact Statement. Further, administrative and enforcement costs to the Government and the FMA will be significant.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EEvery head on the other side is looking down at their desk. Why? You should be embarrassed. Minister Faafoi, you should be embarrassed. What you are doing is already being done. You\u2019re wasting this House\u2019s time. You\u2019re putting further expenses upon customers in New Zealand for elements of protection that are already being put in place and that the FMA and the Reserve Bank already have oversight over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t need to say anything else. I think I\u2019ve said enough. I think that what we see here is a bill that is a duplication, and that\u2019s why we don\u2019t support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00223d339c690f86435383d5ca38002f6cd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d339c690f86435383d5ca38002f6cd1\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand in support of this fantastic piece of legislation despite the moans from the Opposition there. Just an observation of the argument made by the previous speaker, Jonathan Young: first of all, he said that National had already brought this legislation in, it\u2019s already done, there\u2019s no need to do it any more. And then he says, \u201CAnd by doing this you\u2019re going to add extra costs and you\u2019re going to ruin the industry,\u201D after saying it\u2019s already been done. Then the speaker before him, in the Opposition, Brett Hudson, talked about incentive for sales. Now, I have sympathy for that. You do need good incentives in terms of sales. But I loved what Dr Russell said in terms of actually what we want to do is talk about sales that are consumer focused, that are fair, and that are not profit gouging from our New Zealand consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat the Opposition speaker previously failed to realise in his argument, when he said there were no problems in the insurance or financial services industry, was kind of an asymmetric information breakdown between those parties of the contract. All that fundamentally means is that when a person sits down to sign an insurance contract, for example, or takes financial advice from an expert, they are at a disadvantage in terms of the information in front of them. Particularly with insurance contracts, it is not written in for the layman and it becomes incredibly confusing. And that\u2019s just in that moment. That\u2019s just that time and place where a normal person in a household is trying to figure out what insurance they need to look after their livelihood, their health, and protect their income. Never mind the lack of information that person may have on the history of that financial or insurance institution and whether or not they have a history of serving their customers well\u2014to what degree have they let their customers down, to what degree have they sold insurance products to people with disabilities when those very products exclude the disability that that person has in the insurance contract? I mean, that\u2019s still what this House is trying to deal with today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo, to the members opposite, I know that more needs to be done. They are an essential part of modern life. We\u2019re dealing with banks, we\u2019re dealing with financial advice, and we\u2019re dealing with insurance companies, but what we have seen recently\u2014and we have seen it in New Zealand; in fact, the previous speaker himself said that it wasn\u2019t as bad as Australia. Well, Australia was diabolical and there were huge problems that needed to be rectified and the Government there put a heavy foot in to change those markets to make sure those organisations were looking after their consumers. I put it to the House tonight that to ask those institutions to put their consumers first\u2014their customers at the forefront of their business model\u2014is not unreasonable at all. In fact, as one of the previous speakers said, long-term benefit to that kind of organisation is good; that\u2019s good business practice. But then we come back to this conversation about asymmetric legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo this is what this legislation is fundamentally about. We\u2019ve had reviews of New Zealand banks, life insurers\u2014in 2018, a joint one from the Reserve Bank of New Zealand and the Financial Markets Authority\u2014that there is a gap in our regulatory settings and there is currently no explicit legislated mandate for the regulation of general conduct of financial institutions despite what the member previous claimed in the House in his contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spoken for longer than I intended. This is a sensible piece of legislation. It is about protecting consumers and customers. It is about making sure that those undertakings that we would all expect are fair and reasonable and have the customer at the forefront of an organisation\u2019s thinking. So I very much support this legislation this evening. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022b989a7c341b9485e85dde6d97a2f057b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b989a7c341b9485e85dde6d97a2f057b\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to rise to speak for the first time in 2020. Although, I did actually have a question\u2014this is the first time I\u2019m actually speaking on a bill. I am, with my colleagues on this side of the House, opposing this bill. To give the reasons, I\u2019ll actually give a little bit of a background; I think other members have actually started to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry in Australia actually found widespread abuses within the financial sector, which has actually led to a raft of legislative and regulatory changes in Australia. In New Zealand, following that royal commission, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand as well as the Financial Markets Authority launched its own review into the conduct of our own banking industry, the financial services sector, and the insurance sector. What they found was that there were some concerns, some small number of conduct issues related to poor conduct by bank staff, but it wasn\u2019t a widespread misconduct like the one that they actually found in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of this particular bill, I am a little bit baffled as to what Fletcher Tabuteau was actually talking about in terms of why we need this bill when my colleague Jonathan Young had earlier said that in this very House we had passed legislation within the last two years that actually deals with some of these issues. When someone now deals with a financial institution, a bank, or an insurance company, what they do is that they now have to be registered. There are plenty of warnings but this bill doesn\u2019t actually sort of go into the issue. We already have that in place where bad behaviour and bad advice can be dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill doesn\u2019t actually deal with, I guess, something called caveat emptor or buyer beware. There is always this issue when someone is purchasing a financial product or an insurance that they should really read into it. Fair enough that there are some financial literacy issues that we have in this country; we need to improve some of this. But I\u2019m not so sure if there\u2019s another piece of legislation or regulation that needs to be introduced to deal with something we\u2019ve already dealt with, which is already in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier Dr Deborah Russell also gave an example of the sales incentives and the commissions that she was apparently particularly concerned about. I think when there is bad behaviour we all are concerned about it, but one of the examples that she actually gave was that there was an increase in sales which was correlated with the increase of overseas trips. I wonder if she actually really believes that that example that she gave was, in fact, proof of misconduct or the fact that there was harm created to consumers. I\u2019m not so sure what that example was supposed to have been. It just goes to prove that this Government has no concept of business, that sometimes incentives for salespeople who actually\u2014I mean people have to sell products. Salespeople are very good at selling products, and often they do not take a salary. Often they are on a very bare sort of contract that gives them some sort of an incentive payment for the amount of sales that they actually make. That does not equate or does not actually mean that these people are selling a bad product, or that their behaviour or the very fact that they are very good at sales does not mean that they\u2019re actually creating harm for the consumers, or that there is, in fact, misconduct actually happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EOf course, all of us in this House are concerned if there is bad behaviour happening in the market place, or that banks or institutions like insurance companies are actually behaving badly, and we want to make sure that we protect consumers to make sure that they\u2019re getting a fair deal for the purchases that they actually make. However, often when businesses are wanting to make a profit, they need to make sales; salespeople also need incentives. This bill actually allows the Government to create regulations, which in fact, could lead to a ban on salespeople. I\u2019m not so sure if that is, in fact, a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI think a long time ago someone said something about using a sledge hammer to hammer in a little nail. I think I don\u2019t know what that, you know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7315c4e380a48139e99848c2b7cc06a\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Crack a nut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd63d130fdb4c6d9f56f2d2bdbfae75\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Cracking a nut. I think when you need a very small instrument to actually fix a problem\u2014I think this Government is trying to introduce a massive ban on something that does not prove that they are, in fact, a bad thing for the market place. I stand with my colleagues on this side of the House and oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002221f61f98d4d1476cb14dc54672dfbc1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221f61f98d4d1476cb14dc54672dfbc1c\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. I am very pleased to speak on the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill and support it on behalf of the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe members of the Opposition seem to have their eyes wide shut. They seem to be unaware of the need to have a much greater standard of fairness in the financial sector, as Deborah Russell alluded to. Yes, there is already a licensing regime, which the Financial Markets Authority can administer, but what this bill does is build on the results of the Australian reviews and the reviews which have been done in New Zealand, which highlighted that issues like incentives, which were based around targets to sell particular volumes or to sell to a particular value, which rewarded the adviser with trips overseas, soft rewards like that, ended up being to the detriment of the customer and focus more on benefiting the sales adviser rather than benefiting the customer. They resulted in, as one of the reviews showed, a tetraplegic being sold life insurance which excluded tetraplegia; so it was, essentially, meaningless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis Government is about fairness. I find it extraordinary that members of the Opposition are siding with the big people, the banks, the big insurers, and not with the consumers. We all want financial markets which are fair. What this bill does, by providing a regulation-making power, is not using a sledgehammer to crack a nut but is ensuring that we have a fair market so that people can trust, and if people trust the markets they are involved in because it\u2019s got a good regulatory framework, they are more likely to buy those services rather than being vulnerable to exploitation. We know that these contracts are very complex, that there is not a high degree of financial literacy in New Zealand, and because of that people can be exploited. So this bill is about ensuring that we manage those risks, that we have greater accountability, and that we have an ability to enforce fair conduct and good conduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe National Opposition did pass some legislation, but like everything, it did not go far enough. This, through using the licensing system that already exists, through using the ability to pass more regulations, will ensure a much stronger standard of fairness throughout our financial markets. The Green Party is pleased to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002245a5ed512c9f4a7b962f850e703e33ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245a5ed512c9f4a7b962f850e703e33ee\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to have my first speech in the House for 2020. Unfortunately, it\u2019s not on a particularly good bill, but that\u2019s been well covered by my colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EGoing back to the New Zealand First speaker earlier who spoke quite a bit about the lack of symmetry or an asymmetrical imbalance in terms of knowledge, there will always be, in a transaction, an asymmetry in knowledge. The seller always, almost always, will know more about what they\u2019re selling, about that product, than the buyer. That is just commerce every day. Now, to try and balance that up by putting in this overbearing regulatory regime is just nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe have caveat emptor as my colleague mentioned before\u2014the buyer beware. People have buyer\u2019s remorse all the time. They buy something as little as a pair of jeans, perhaps, or as large as a house, a big transaction, they can then have buyer\u2019s remorse the next day or in the coming days and have all sorts of regrets about that purchase. It seems a lot of that thinking is rooted into this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWhen we go back to the commission that looked at the banking in Australia and then the inquiry that was held here in New Zealand, yes, they found some issues in there. The main issue was there was a lack of documentation. It didn\u2019t satisfy the inquiry as to what the documentation around those transactions was, not necessarily anything further than that. This is such an overbearing reaction. It shows a lack of understanding of commerce, it shows a lack of understanding of business, and I certainly am very suspicious of anyone going down this path. I always think back to, you know, the devil makes work for idle bureaucrats. That seems to be what they\u2019ve done here, try and find something to fill out their legislative programme because they didn\u2019t do the work when they were in Opposition to do some policy research. Fortunately, we aren\u2019t falling into that trap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI just go back to the pursuit of profit. It is absolutely in a transaction. The seller is trying to maximise the price and the buyer is trying to minimise the price; that is how a transaction happens every time. This seems to be a surprise to people on the other side of the House. This legislation won\u2019t change that. In fact, what really worries me about it is the regulation-making powers, which as my colleague said, may even allow them to seek to ban sales altogether. It is just a nonsense. This bill deserves to go in the bin. I\u2019ll be voting that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5dfdd8deb5942ee96be52fb1ed518d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5dfdd8deb5942ee96be52fb1ed518d2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, so this is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022331ff7ad86ac421cb281cd46dd328cd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022331ff7ad86ac421cb281cd46dd328cd3\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill\u2014my second speech in the House this year. We\u2019ve heard from the Opposition that they\u2019re not voting for this bill because it regulates companies to comply with ethical behaviour. Now, I think there\u2019s some confusion over there, because wouldn\u2019t we want companies to comply with ethical behaviour? And those were the exact words that came out of the mouth of one of the Opposition members. So I think the Opposition members do need to have a little bit more of a think about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ELook, there is an imbalance of power between financial institutions and consumers\u2014and, yes, in most cases, the seller does have more knowledge than the purchaser\u2014but trust and confidence in our financial sector is a vital part of our economy, and even if the members opposite don\u2019t believe that we need balance or that we need fairness, surely they believe that our financial sector must be strong and stable. If there is no trust and confidence in these services that are provided, then we could have a whole lot of people not taking out life insurance, for example, and something like that, you know, could have a disastrous effect on our economy potential. So we need trust and confidence and, at times, the Government do need to provide some regulation to ensure that stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThis has stemmed out of recent reviews into banks and life insurers\u2014and the Green Party member mentioned one of the reviews in Australia, which quite clearly showed up that we do need some regulation. Just to close, this is actually a win-win for banks and institutions and consumers, and the reason it\u2019s a win-win is because it creates confidence and trust in the financial sector, and that\u2019s what we need for our country. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u00222a38f9a46ee34bbb95ef3317dff03bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a38f9a46ee34bbb95ef3317dff03bc1\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my first opportunity to speak in the House this year as well; so can I just welcome everyone back. It\u2019s wonderful to be here. I will just be taking a reasonably short call this evening, though, for two reasons: first of all, because I think my colleagues over this side of the House have laid out very well the reasons that we won\u2019t be supporting the bill, and, secondly, because I\u2019m conscious that Mr Ian McKelvie is due to speak after me, and I\u2019m sure everyone will be looking forward to that. So I\u2019ll just take a very short call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI am quite interested in this bill, though, and particularly the history of it, because prior to coming to Parliament, for a short time I did work in banking and so I am aware of some of the history behind the bill and certainly what happened in Australia. So what interests me is that obviously the Australians went off and did their royal commission, found a large number of systemic problems in the Australian banking system, and so following on from that New Zealand regulators and agencies went off and did their own review. And what they found actually was that there wasn\u2019t this level of problems\u2014anywhere near the level of problems\u2014that exists in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo it was quite interesting to hear from Minister Eugenie Sage earlier saying that this bill builds on the review that was done in Australia. This intrigues me because what they\u2019re, essentially, doing is saying there\u2019s a problem in Australia; therefore, we need to legislate in New Zealand. That to me really is suggesting that we\u2019re creating a solution to a problem that doesn\u2019t actually exist in New Zealand, because what they found was that they said there\u2019s a small number of conduct issues related to poor conduct by bank staff but not widespread misconduct or culture issues like in Australia. So, again, nowhere near the level of problems that they see in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe do support some of the aspects of this bill. There are some important issues in it, and we do support, of course, a strong banking conduct framework, but where I think they go too far is in relation to setting rules for sales incentives by regulation. There\u2019s two important parts to that, and the first one of those is that we said it\u2019s heavy and disproportionate to, essentially, hand a power to Government to say that there could be a blanket ban on any sort of sales incentives and, in particular, my colleague Melissa Lee has laid out the concerns that we have in relation to that. The second important point is actually that it\u2019s taking away the power of Parliament to do that and giving it to a Minister to set by regulation and so there\u2019ll be no scrutiny of that decision by Parliament, and that is pretty concerning to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI do want to just touch on what the effects of that will be, and actually that\u2019s laid out quite well in the regulatory impact statement, which talks about the fact that the bill could lead to more expensive financial products and services, for instance, if costs are passed through to customers. My concern around that\u2014and to me it really sums up what this Government does actually\u2014is they come in and they think, \u201COh well, look, here\u2019s potentially a problem that we need to fix.\u201D\u2014or in this case, probably not a problem at all\u2014\u201CSo what we\u2019ll do is we\u2019ll put a whole bunch of new costs on to businesses or on to farmers or on to landlords, whoever it might be, whatever industry they decide to pick on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThey think to themselves, \u201COK, well, this, of course, will have no effect. There\u2019ll be no effect of doing this.\u201D But of course, as we know, there is an effect because all of those costs just end up getting passed on to the end-user\u2014in this case, the customer or the consumer. So when Eugenie Sage earlier today said that we are siding with the big guys, siding with the big guys by not voting for this bill, well, actually, Ms Sage, we\u2019re not siding with the big guys; we\u2019re siding with the customers. We are siding with the consumers who, ultimately, have to pay more as a result of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c966bfd7c2cf45c4bab86f2c521214df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c966bfd7c2cf45c4bab86f2c521214df\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to correct that previous speaker, Andrew Falloon\u2014that we\u2019ve had an inquiry into New Zealand. What Australia had was a royal commission of inquiry with the ability to summons people to the inquiry, and anyone who has been subject to a commission of inquiry, particularly a royal commission of inquiry, will understand they leave no stone unturned. In New Zealand, what happened was the Financial Markets Authority and the Reserve Bank wrote to the banks and asked them if they were engaging in the sort of behaviour that the Australians had done. Funnily enough, they said they weren\u2019t. Well, that was our commission of inquiry\u2014a good old Kiwi one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI was once the chair of a mortgage company, and that was in the good old days when the margin between lending and borrowing was around 400 percentage points, or 4 percent. Now, when that existed, and that was the financial regime which existed, and no one really needed to do this sort of thing because everybody was making so much money, virtually overnight, the percentage went down to less than 1 percent. When we exited that particular product, we were actually getting less than 1 percent, or 100 basis points, between borrowing and lending, and the reason we exited was the only other way we were actually going to be able to continue to make money was on value-added products like insurance, etc. What quickly became clear was that we were going to have to incentivise a lot of people for us to make any money and the only people who were going to suffer were going to be our customers. So we exited. So I have a firsthand account or experience of that change in incentive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo this is a very essential piece of legislation. Nobody in banking is a particularly bad person. Nobody in there is out to rip anyone off. What they\u2019re doing is doing what humans do: they are out there to make a living the best way they can. Some people sell drugs because it\u2019s the only way they can make a living. The authorities\u2014the State\u2014stop them from doing that and so it is essential that just the ability, the desire to make money, the need to make money is not by itself a reason why the State, the regulator, should not become involved. The more incentive there is, the more there will be an incentive for those to actually act against the interests of everyone else in the industry, and that\u2019s exactly what happened in Australia and there\u2019s no reason to expect that largely it hasn\u2019t happened in New Zealand. This is to ensure it doesn\u2019t happen. This is to ensure we protect New Zealand customers. I commend this to the House, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002208a2bdbda7cd4c03801c5f27c4c41eaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208a2bdbda7cd4c03801c5f27c4c41eaf\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I will be brief because most of the extremely valuable stuff I was going to introduce to this debate has been introduced already, but I can\u2019t resist but to comment on a couple or three comments from Government members who\u2019ve already spoken. And I want to start with the last one, Greg O\u2019Connor, who I think vastly or grossly underestimates the diligence of our Reserve Bank Governor. I wouldn\u2019t want to be on the end of one of his letters. I think that might be a bit testing. So that\u2019s the first thing I want to bring up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe second thing I want to talk about was something that Fletcher Tabuteau raised with relation to this bill as well. He talked about the gaps in the legislation. Well, the unfortunate thing about legislation is every time we create a piece of legislation, we create another gap. So you can\u2019t plug gaps in legislation with more legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EAnd the third thing I want to comment very briefly on is that I sort of didn\u2019t really like the comment that Jamie Strange made. I thought it was rather a strange comment, in fact, where he accused us of opposing a bill that encourages ethical behaviour. I think we\u2019re really opposing a bill that, in my view, is liable to lump costs on the very people that it\u2019s designed to protect, and I think that\u2019s the issue that I have personally with a lot of the legislation\u2014not just this piece of legislation; the previous Government passed some pieces of legislation which have proved to be extremely expensive for those people that we\u2019re trying to protect as well. So we have a habit in this House of passing legislation without fully understanding the ramifications of it and making sure that what we do is going to in fact achieve what we want to achieve without imposing extra pain on the people that we deign to protect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a couple of other things I want to comment on, and it\u2019s very interesting, because I do think that some of our sales habits\u2014or some of our incentivising of sales\u2014over the years has been suspect. I myself have been involved in the motor industry for a long time, and we had some very odd and unfortunate sales incentives set in that industry at times, which actually cost the industry a lot of money. That\u2019s what almost always happens with poorly designed sales incentives. They almost always backfire on the industry in the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe other comment I wanted to make was around education. I think, rather than keeping passing bits of legislation to protect people from other people, we\u2019d be much better to introduce a whole lot more education into our system around financials and how people should manage their lives. I don\u2019t think it would be that hard. I know education\u2019s a touchy subject and I shouldn\u2019t be talking about it in Deborah Russell\u2019s presence, but education, for mine, would overcome a whole lot of issues we have with these kind of rules that we\u2019re trying to put in place with legislation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESome of these transactions are quite complicated. We\u2019ve seen a number of cases of very complicated banking arrangements that have ended up in court and ended up with people being repaid money and all sorts of things over the years, because they are complicated. Even very simple transactions are complicated. So I think it\u2019s important that we get more education for the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWe aren\u2019t supporting this bill, not because we don\u2019t think those people that it purports to protect need protecting but because we think it\u2019s a completely inadequate piece of legislation and partly already covered. So thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229422bc0c1d3349f191537e163dc7833a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229422bc0c1d3349f191537e163dc7833a\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Ng\u0101 mihi nui. It\u2019s good to be here in this new year. Look, this is a really important piece of legislation. Stuart Smith stood up before and talked about caveat emptor and then made a quite unusual comparison between buying financial services and buying a pair of jeans. I just want to pick up on that, because, when you buy a pair of jeans, you see exactly what you get\u2014although, having seen his attire, perhaps he didn\u2019t look closely enough. When you\u2019re buying some insurance product, you\u2019re buying something which is entirely impossible to understand exactly. You\u2019re buying a promise\u2014you\u2019re buying nothing more than a promise\u2014that a faceless company will do good and indemnify you\u2014will make up any losses that you suffer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe document\u2014and let\u2019s be honest: who\u2019s read cover to cover their insurance policy? I suggest\u2014[Dr Deborah Russell raises hand] Perhaps Dr Deborah Russell, but no reasonable person. The fact is we take it on trust that the insurance company has written fair and reasonable terms. Then, when a claim comes along, all of the power is in the hands of the insurer\u2014as Stuart Smith should know, given his electorate. So, in fact, we\u2019ve got a situation where we\u2019re buying a product. We don\u2019t actually know what it\u2019s going to deliver. We don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to deliver it or whether the insurer will stand behind it when the time comes and deal with this fairly. And what does this bill do? What\u2019s its central precept? That when selling these products\u2014these complex products\u2014the interests of the consumer should be taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard that old term \u201Ccaveat emptor\u201D bandied about by the other side. There\u2019s a reason that it\u2019s Latin and hasn\u2019t been used for 100 years: it\u2019s because it\u2019s a pretty useless term. What it means is it\u2019s a licence to cheat, to manipulate, to misrepresent, and, basically, to rip the other side off if they\u2019re not as smart as you are. Frankly, the law has moved on, and I\u2019m glad to see it. That is why we have a bill like this, which is here to protect consumers, to impose a duty on insurers and other financial service providers to take into account and take care of consumers. It\u2019s how it should be\u2014a great bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220f43600559244bbb8fe3b04fdb644367\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000590\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022959ce5791a2b4e48b2370cca9ccf92f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022959ce5791a2b4e48b2370cca9ccf92f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: I move, That the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 23 June 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a10d5df5a28b457baa7340123e3d1a3e\u0022\u003EFair Trading Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a11fdd2f659b48c8aa0cc421839a7a81\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002290ab002dc4bf4ccea537ed2536aa679e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290ab002dc4bf4ccea537ed2536aa679e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: I move, That the Fair Trading Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe Fair Trading Amendment Bill amends the Fair Trading Act 1986 to introduce new protections for businesses and consumers against unfair commercial practices. Firstly, it introduces a prohibition against unconscionable conduct in trade. Secondly, it extends existing protections against unfair contract terms in non-negotiable consumer contracts, or \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D consumer contracts, to also apply to business contracts with a value below $250,000 in a given year. Thirdly, it strengthens the ability of consumers to require uninvited sellers to leave or not enter their premises, including through the use of \u201Cdo not knock\u201D stickers. The bill also makes a number of technical changes to the Act to improve its functioning and to support consistency with other legislation enforced by the Commerce Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis bill supports this Government\u2019s goal of building a more productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy. An important part of achieving this goal is ensuring that New Zealand has a trading environment where both businesses and consumers are treated fairly. At its core, a fair economy is one where businesses and consumers trust each other, where businesses compete on their merits, where businesses have a reasonable opportunity to grow and thrive, and where consumers are protected from high levels of detriment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENew Zealand already has a number of protections against unfair practices, including those contained in the Fair Trading Act. However, when consulted in 2018 on whether these protections went far enough, many submitters told us that they did not. We\u2019ve heard about firms who are bullied by their larger suppliers or business customers. We\u2019ve heard about cases where the larger business unilaterally buries the terms of the contract, including price, and we\u2019ve heard about countless examples of businesses who have had to wait very long times to be paid, sometimes up to 90 days and beyond after the work has been done or products supplied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis stuff matters because it makes it hard for New Zealand businesses to focus on what really matters: developing their products and services, innovating, and growing their businesses. Instead, businesses have to spend hours reviewing contracts to ensure there are no unfair terms. They have to work with their accountants to deal with cash-flow issues arising from late payments\u2014which is no reflection on their accountants\u2014and they have to deal with the stress that comes from being bullied or harassed by their suppliers or business customers. This has flow-on effects also for other parts of the economy, especially for the families and communities that these businesses support. We\u2019ve also heard about real consumer harm as well. We\u2019ve been told about businesses preying on vulnerable consumers in shopping malls, in their homes, and even in mental health units. We won\u2019t get to a more productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy with these sorts of practices in the market place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to talk about some aspects of the bill in more detail: firstly, the bill\u2019s prohibition against unconscionable conduct. Unconscionable conduct is serious misconduct that goes beyond what is commercially necessary or appropriate. The bill does not define exactly what is unconscionable; however, the prohibition is based on provisions in the Australian Competition and Consumer Act 2010. The bill is designed to make clear that the prohibition goes beyond the narrow concept of unconscionability that currently exists in the New Zealand courts. In Australia, the courts have said that conduct is unconscionable if it goes against conscience by reference to the norms of society. The courts have stated that such norms include honesty and fairness. The bill provides a list of factors for determining whether the conduct is unconscionable, such as whether parties acted in good faith, whether a trader used any unfair pressure or tactics, and whether the person affected was in a position to protect their own interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EUnconscionable conduct will be an offence subject to penalties of up to $200,000 for individuals and $600,000 for bodies corporate. This prohibition is necessary to deal with a very small minority of businesses that take advantage of the vulnerabilities and lack of bargaining power of consumers or other businesses. However, any business that acts fairly and reasonably should have no reason to be concerned that they are in danger of breaching this new prohibition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill extends the current protections against unfair contract terms in consumer contracts to also protect small trade contracts. Unfair contract terms are defined as terms that are imbalanced, unnecessary, and that would cause detriment. Small trade contracts are, broadly, non-negotiable contracts between businesses that form part of trading relationships that have an actual or expected total value of less than $250,000 in any 12-month period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EA standard form contract is a non-negotiable contract presented on a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D basis. For example, a standard franchise agreement used by a restaurant franchiser or a standard lease agreement offered by a large commercial property owner for office space. The bill provides that if the Commerce Commission seeks and receives a High Court declaration that a contract term is unfair then parties may not include or enforce such terms in their non-negotiable contracts. The extension of the unfair contract terms protection to businesses recognises that, like consumers, some businesses can face a complete lack of bargaining power when dealing with other businesses. This leaves them with no real choice but to accept unfair terms in contracts because the alternative might be for their main customer or supplier to walk away from them and leave their business and livelihood in jeopardy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe unfair terms that we are seeking to address aren\u2019t ones that are necessary to conduct business. In some cases they are put into contracts simply because the dominant party knows it can get away with it. It is not reasonable to expect small businesses to be able to pick through routine contracts with a fine-tooth comb to try and detect any unfair contract terms, particularly when they may not have the bargaining power to have them removed in any case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the $250,000 limit on the protections recognises that when businesses enter into large strategic contracts, they do have an obligation to do their own due diligence, seek legal advice, and make their own decisions about whether the risks being placed on their businesses are acceptable or not. I\u2019m already aware of feedback about this threshold, and I would encourage those submitters who wish to place their feedback to the select committee. These new protections will require businesses to review and potentially amend their contracts, but I am confident that the protections should not significantly inhibit businesses\u2019 ability to enter into fair and reasonable contracts with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill provides that if an uninvited seller is on or approaching residential premises for the purpose of selling something, the seller must leave or not enter if directed by a consumer. A direction can be written or verbal and can be specific or general, such as a \u201Cdo not knock\u201D sticker on a letterbox, so if a mobile truck shop shows up and tries to knock on a consumer\u2019s door, despite seeing a \u201Cdo not knock\u201D sticker, the trader would be legally obliged to leave the premises or face penalties. The provision originates from a concern identified in our review of consumer credit law in 2018. It found that consumers are often preyed upon by mobile traders and that measures that they take to deter such traders at present\u2014such as putting up \u201Cdo not knock\u201D stickers\u2014do not have a legal effect currently. This is a result of the way the courts have interpreted the Trespass Act 1980. The courts have stated that broadly worded notices such as \u201Cdo not knock\u201D stickers are not legally enforceable under the Trespass Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EUnder this proposal, ignoring a direction to leave or not enter will be subject to penalties of up to $10,000 for individuals and $30,000 for businesses. This will be enforced by the Commerce Commission. I expect that the Commerce Commission will, generally, only take action in respect of systemic commercial offending by mobile traders. Any concerns relating to safety would be dealt with by police, as at present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ETo conclude, this bill draws a line in the sand in respect of commercial conduct. It makes clear this Government\u2019s expectation that business in New Zealand will be conducted honestly and fairly. At the same time, the protections are designed to ensure that businesses can continue to compete effectively, negotiate firmly, and freely enter into contracts that reflect their wishes. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u0022a01516eadd4f4581890fb5af94e6430c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a01516eadd4f4581890fb5af94e6430c\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, the Government is at least showing some consistency at last. The consistency is that for every problem that exists or they perceive, the only answer is more Government, and, within that, the only answer for more Government is more regulation-making power so the Minister can sidestep Parliament and do what he or she wants to their heart\u2019s content.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ECertainly we don\u2019t have an issue with protecting consumers, in particular, and we acknowledge there are some issues of power imbalances that are extraordinarily serious for some small business owners, but we have a very big issue with the failure to seek to define what unconscionable terms will mean and what those terms will be. I mean the Minister, in introducing this bill, actually gave a potential definition, saying that \u201Cthe courts in Australia have found that unconscionable is\u201D and he read that piece. Why did they not put that into the bill then? Why not define this? Instead, they give some areas where the court may give consideration\u2014it\u2019s not saying that they define unconscionable conduct at all\u2014it\u2019s saying they can give consideration to certain matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe would say that it would be equally important, if this bill does pass, that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment should publish some guidelines for traders, for businesses, to ensure that they can steer clear of it. No one wants to be at the wrong end of a court proceeding. You certainly don\u2019t want to be the first cab off the rank, which actually leads to some of the background behind this Fair Trading Act piece. In select committee work back in 2015 this very matter was looked at\u2014unconscionable elements in contracts. It was determined at that time\u2014and I believe it was a unanimous decision, and I could be corrected on that, but the committee found that, actually, the better option to undertake was to allow some case law to be determined in New Zealand so that it could be clearly understood what would be in, what would be out, just where the boundaries might lie. This Government has chosen not to allow that to go through its process but, instead, to put a provision in without defining what \u201Cunconscionable\u201D would be. We think that is a glaring error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EOn the particular business to business, small business unfair contract terms, a couple of issues there. The first one is\u2014and we do acknowledge that there are some small businesses in incredibly invidious positions where their large business customer simply has so much power that they may feel they have no alternative but to agree to terms that they really, really wouldn\u2019t normally want to sign up to. But there are a couple of elements to that, not least that it\u2019s not the Government\u2019s role to intervene in commercial agreements between willing parties to ensure an outcome, which is what this will do. It\u2019ll do it in a couple of ways, not only because the unfair terms are understood, but because it gives the Minister power to change that at will. It\u2019s the greatest regulation-making power in this bill. They\u2019re giving the Minister of commerce the ability to determine what will be unfair for a small business contracting with what is likely to be a much larger company. It\u2019s not the Minister of commerce\u2019s role to determine the contracts between willing suppliers and customers in New Zealand. So we think there\u2019s a lot of work that would need to be done on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll get to the door-to-door stuff last. We\u2019re also a bit concerned about the proposed penalties, particularly if I return to the area around unconscionable conduct. Particularly for individuals, it\u2019s really quite high, at $200,000. I think you could probably argue the proposed penalty for a business at $600,000 may be far more reasonable, but the one for individuals\u2014I mean, we really have to understand the problem and determine that the penalty proposed or the penalty regime proposed is proportionate, and I\u2019m not sure that the Government, in putting this together, has made that case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe very last part I\u2019ll talk just briefly on, because, actually, I think, you know\u2014the point about helping consumers to be able to ward off predatory sellers is not a bad thing, but, again, it\u2019s about appropriateness to the situation. So the Minister said that in his view, the Commerce Commission would only act against mobile traders. Well, why not define that? Why not say that it applies to them? There may even be a couple of other types of door-to-door salespeople that these particular provisions could apply to, but the way it\u2019s written is they\u2019ll simply apply to anyone seeking to undertake some sort of trade at the doorstep. So I\u2019m sure the Girl Guides are probably figuring they\u2019re quite happy that they\u2019ve stopped selling biscuits, because, quite frankly, the way the legislation\u2019s written at the moment, they would be captured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624fdd1852b14bf88fda572a2616408e\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261edb5a85e5f409489e82580975d68bb\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they would, because they\u2019d be knocking on doors seeking to sell something, and so by the law, they\u2019re captured. It\u2019s important, when we deal with this\u2014it\u2019s what the law says, not how people want to administer it. It is how it is written that is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut, you know, we\u2019re not going to support this legislation. We think it\u2019s a bit rushed and not well defined as it should be, but we will work constructively in the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. We will seek to actually improve it as best we can, and if it transpires that what comes out of select committee is appropriate and acceptable, we may well change that position, but what we\u2019re saying is it\u2019s not right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EActually, it\u2019s the Government\u2019s job around this policy to get it right before it introduces the bill into the House, not simply going, \u201CWell, here\u2019s the thing we think\u2019s worth doing; you panel beat it out at select committee.\u201D, which, unfortunately, I have to say, we\u2019re seeing more and more of, and particularly more of regulation-making powers constantly put into Government bills to give them all the authority to do what they want after Parliament\u2019s given the first sanction, with no direct and immediate scrutiny from Parliament. Well, actually, it\u2019s Parliament\u2019s role to pass laws and make laws in this country, not the Government\u2019s. They propose, and Parliament decides whether or not it agrees. It is already quite egregious, quite frankly, just the extent to which this Government is inserting regulation-making powers in all sorts of legislation it brings to this House. Quite frankly, that alone would be enough to oppose this bill. As I said, we\u2019ll work constructively, we\u2019ll see if we can turn it into something worthy of our support, but right at the moment, it is not that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022327ae35050984bacbefa0c1f8f9b9502\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022327ae35050984bacbefa0c1f8f9b9502\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Must be a cold night in hell, because tonight is the night that the National Party has opposed a bill that supports small business. That is an astonishing position for that party to take. This is a bill that small business asked for. This is the bill that was extensively canvassed in discussion and consultation with business. It is a bill that was asked for. Why? Because 45 percent of small businesses say they have been bullied, they have been pressured, they have been subject to conduct that could amount to being unconscionable conduct. This bill seeks to protect small business from the imbalance of power that can come when they are dealing with large business. This is a bill that should be supported by the National Party, and I do not understand why they will not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, because we understand the stresses and strains of small business, because we understand what can happen from a power imbalance, because we understand why it matters when one party is so much bigger and stronger than the other party, we support this bill. Why? Because it seeks to give grounds for redress where a large business pressures a small business, where a small person is subject to extraordinary pressure. That is why we support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker, Brett Hudson, was concerned that we had not defined what unconscionable conduct is in this bill, that we had not given an explicit definition, but he also complained that we hadn\u2019t allowed case law to provide a definition over time. Now, I cannot reconcile those two statements. In fact, this bill does find a way of drawing on the strengths of case law and drawing on the strengths of providing guidance in legislation. If the previous speaker would care to look at clause 6 of the bill, he would see that clause 6 inserts two new sections into the Act, sections 7 and 8. Those clauses give an understanding\u2014it says that a person must not trade in or engage in unconscionable conduct, and then it sets out a series of criteria that the court may take into account when determining whether something amounts to unconscionable conduct. It doesn\u2019t define it exactly, but it sets out a series of criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is, I guess, because in some cases, what might amount to unconscionable conduct might change over time. Phishing, indeed, did not exist 20 years ago, but it might amount to unconscionable conduct. Some of the sales techniques that we see that have come about through the advent of the internet might not have been unconscionable conduct\u2014couldn\u2019t have been defined that way\u2014because they didn\u2019t exist 20 years ago. These series of criteria will enable us to update our understanding of what unconscionable conduct is as business practice changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s have a look at some of the criteria that are sitting there in the bill. It is to do with the relative bargaining power of the people engaging in the conduct\u2014that\u2019s paragraph (a) of the proposed new section 8. It is to do with the extent to which a trader and an affected person acted in good faith. It is to do with taking into account the particular characteristics and circumstances of an affected person. It is to do with whether an affected person was able to understand any of the documents provided. It\u2019s to do with whether there was unfair pressure. It is to do with whether the trader unreasonably failed to disclose various intended conducts, and so on. In other words, there\u2019s a series of criteria set there as to what unconscionable conduct might be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt is exactly those criteria that we might seek to elucidate, to refine, to make better in the select committee process, but not the basic premise of this bill, the basic premise that says that we must act to protect small business from unconscionable conduct. May I suggest that it is utterly absurd not to support this bill, this bill that works to protect the small person. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30fb087aeb44142bdcdbaac7fcff692\u0022\u003EJonathan Young\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker\u2014Jonathan Young.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022413c030eaa444be9a6841d0910d93346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022413c030eaa444be9a6841d0910d93346\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I call Jonathan Young. I got the \u201CYoung\u201D bit; I was just struggling with the Audrey or the Jonathan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002283c337e5a674423fb10ba1533fa0a87c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283c337e5a674423fb10ba1533fa0a87c\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s right. I\u2019m not Jonathan Hunt or Jonathan Coleman, as I often get introduced as. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on this bill, and I am so pleased it\u2019s coming to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. It is about time that Government sent bills to the right place. We have had such a light workload this last 2\u00BD years. It\u2019s going to be good to get into this, and I think that, as my colleague Brett Hudson has said and I have said to Minister Faafoi, even though that committee is led by an Opposition chair, he can have assurance that we will do the job unbiased. We will do it professionally. We will look at legislation that the Government promote, and we will look at it through the lens of what is good for New Zealand. That\u2019s my pledge as chair of that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased that this bill is coming to that committee because through the rigours of submissions, then we will get to the nub of what is the definition of unconscionable conduct. In fact, I believe I was chair of the Commerce Committee back in 2015 when we looked at this. We looked at the Australian legislation around this. We did have a good, wide-ranging debate, and we determined, as Brett Hudson said at that point in time, that because there was no clear definition of what it was, that we ought to wait and see the effects of the Fair Trading Act at that point in time to see whether we could get some clarity around this. With all due respect, I think that\u2019s what we will be doing again as the select committee looks at this: we will be looking for examples out there in consumer-land to find genuine examples of where people have felt that there has been contravention of what would be considered to be fair trading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI do think that a very broad definition of unconscionable conduct is \u201Ca serious misconduct that goes far beyond what is commercially necessary or appropriate\u201D. It\u2019s too wide. It\u2019s too broad. It\u2019s very subjective. If somebody walks into a shop and comes under what they would consider to be intense pressure from a salesperson, is that because that salesperson is acting inappropriately or unethically, or is it because the person is feeling under pressure because they can\u2019t afford a product or whatever it might be? Whenever I go into a shop and somebody approaches me, I find that, by and large, they are very appropriately behaved and they understand that they, first of all, want to win the client before they can win the sale. I think that\u2019s important to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to small business, large businesses, and things like that, there\u2019s going to be a lot in this. We have traversed this space, I believe, twice in the last five years around supermarkets. We have looked at it a couple of times. The Commerce Commission has delved into this quite considerably to see whether there is unconscionable conduct taking place. Once again we will no doubt get submitters from that sector and from small businesses that supply to them. It\u2019s going to be quite a process for the select committee to go through and work to find the balance that\u2019s needed\u2014the balance that\u2019s needed\u2014in the robustness of trading that happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOne thing that I can say to the Government parties: for goodness\u2019 sake, please do not try to homogenise how everything works. There are all sorts of different approaches, techniques, models of business, personalities of salespeople\u2014all of this is part of what makes people succeed in their profession, if they\u2019re a salesperson, or if they\u2019re a small business or large business. We need to acknowledge the balance that\u2019s needed in all of these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo, look, thanks very much for sending it to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. We will look forward to doing good, solid work on this bill. We believe in fair trade. We believe that Kiwis need to have a fair go\u2014obviously, we believe in that\u2014but we want to make sure the balance is correct and that we don\u2019t put a wet blanket over everything but that we also give opportunity for entrepreneurship to flourish in our country as well. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u0022a61a2e4eda794bda811dde8055a68761\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a61a2e4eda794bda811dde8055a68761\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Welcome back to everybody after a great festive break. I just want to commend the previous speaker, the honourable Jonathan Young, for his comments in relation to the thorough process that we\u2019ll be running this bill through, through our Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, which I sit on. You do a thorough job, and I enjoy it on that select committee with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to congratulate the Hon Kris Faafoi for bringing this bill forward, because, as much as I\u2019ve heard a couple of comments this evening to say that there\u2019s maybe not as big a problem as people think, I believe there is a big problem there, as Dr Deborah Russell has pointed out. Having been a small and medium sized business owner and operator for a large part of my life, and having a lot of my friends and contacts who still are small and medium sized business owners and operators, I see unconscionable trading regimes and sales techniques going on to this very day, albeit not everywhere, in every sector, in every corner, but it does happen. When you hear these stories, you think: how is that behaviour able to continue in a modern society like ours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got laws around consumerism to protect businesses, to protect our consumers, but this is just a further tightening, ratcheting up, to ensure that we protect and bring back a balance to businesses, both small and medium sized, and create an equilibrium between those two sized entities, as well as creating an equilibrium between the businesses themselves and the consumers that sometimes get caught up with bad sales practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThe word \u201Cunconscionable\u201D, as we heard from Brett Hudson, is one that seems to be raising some angst in their caucus. I am also very surprised that the party that stands by small and medium sized business, and businesses in general, is not supporting this bill through the House, because it is set up and designed specifically to protect those people. If the only word that seems to be causing some angst is the word \u201Cunconscionable\u201D, then surely the best thing to do is set up a law so that you can actually take that law and you can test it to make case law out of that law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EIf we go back to the last Parliament, when we talked about health and safety and we had \u201Cpersons conducting a business undertaking\u201D (PCBUs) introduced as a terminology and \u201Clegal culpability\u201D, they didn\u2019t have a problem with bringing in terms such as those that needed to be tested in law. But I\u2019ll tell you what that did: the moment you put legal culpability out there for PCBUs, everybody lifts their game, and with that word \u201Cunconscionable\u201D being introduced into this bill, instantly this bill is introduced people will need to think twice about their practices, the way they operate, the way they behave with other businesses, and the way they treat their consumers and customers. So we absolutely support this bill moving through. I\u2019m excited to see that it is coming into the select committee that I sit on with Jonathan Young. We will pull this bill apart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003EThere are, I guess, times in our lives when we see things happening that we don\u2019t like the look of. In fact, I can tell you, if you want to put context to \u201Cunconscionable\u201D, where I know a farmer who was growing a crop who signed a contract with a large supplier who then invested into their farm to get plant and equipment to ensure that they could keep up with demand. They got more land to produce more product. The moment they were locked in, they changed the terms of the contract and there was nothing that that farmer could do but slowly but surely go backwards. That is unconscionable; it\u2019s not too difficult to work out. Or where you see salespeople preying on the vulnerable, whether it be door-to-door or by peddling wares that people don\u2019t need, signing them up to contracts that they don\u2019t want, that they can\u2019t afford\u2014that behaviour is certainly unconscionable. Any fair-minded New Zealander, which the vast majority of us are, will be saying, \u201CI can give you examples of unconscionable too.\u201D Let\u2019s test it, but first and foremost let\u2019s pass a bill that we can actually use to better off business, to better off consumers, and protect and create a balance between those two people and entities. Thank you very much. We will be supporting this bill through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002267211a285c544afb95f0621206c19a5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267211a285c544afb95f0621206c19a5f\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Before I actually get on to the purpose of the bill and, you know, some of the other explanations, I just want to take on what Clayton Mitchell has just spoken about. His definition\u2014I just want to do this because I might forget. He just explained that his idea of what unconscionable behaviour was was that when a farmer signs a contract with another farmer\u2014and the contract is signed\u2014and the bigger entity decides to change the terms of the contract and the smaller entity is going to have to wear that\u2014I thought that was a ridiculous example, because once a contract is signed, how can you change the terms of the contract? You can\u2019t. I think that is something that you could potentially take to court, and sue the person. I\u2019m afraid that that is just not a very good example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill would amend the Fair Trading Act to prohibit unconscionable conduct in trade\u2014misconduct that goes beyond commercially necessary or appropriate conduct, the bill\u2019s explanatory note says\u2014and extend the Act\u2019s protections against unfair contract terms so that they also apply to small trade contracts of less than $250,000 in a 12-month period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe all know that when people are in business, there are costs to be met. When regulations are introduced in this House, often the cost goes to the business and they have to wear that. In reality, businesses often can\u2019t wear that because it costs them money. It will be passed on to the consumers, and, ultimately, the decisions that we make in this House end up costing consumers more. And that is one of the reasons why this side of the House oppose legislation that actually build on more regulations for businesses to deal with and which will end up costing consumers more. That is one of the reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWe are very proud of the improvements that the former National-led Government made to the Fair Trading Act in 2013. They actually benefit the consumers and we\u2019re very proud of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier, Dr Deborah Russell explained that the select committee\u2019s role is to refine the definition of \u201Cunconscionable conduct\u201D and that she was going to do this at select committee. The very basis of this bill, she says, must be to protect the small businesses from unconscionable conduct. What this speech that Deborah Russell gave and what that side of the House is actually saying is that this Government is a solution looking for a problem. It is a solution that is looking for a problem, because they\u2019re saying that the unconscionable conduct that they\u2019re trying to fix is not even defined, that they can actually try and define it at select committee. So what is the real problem? I think this is a bad bill. I stand on this side with my colleagues opposing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d19bc5e5310f49908fd35cd3f93a7b05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d19bc5e5310f49908fd35cd3f93a7b05\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Green Party is very pleased to support the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. I am puzzled by that last speech and that the party which purports to be the party of business is speaking so strongly against this bill. I am puzzled by the speech that Melissa Lee gave, because in the work that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has done in terms of its survey of businesses, 45 percent of businesses surveyed indicated that they had been offered one or more contract terms that they considered to be unfair in the past year, when this research was done in 2018. Fifty-nine percent had been offered unfair terms that limited the liability of their supplier or business customer. Forty-seven percent had been offered unfair terms that allowed their supply or business customer to unilaterally vary the terms of the contract. There is a problem. This bill aims to fix that problem, to ensure that the way in which business is conducted, particularly for small businesses, is fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe bill, as other speakers have noted, applies to contracts which have a value of less than $250,000. It is aiming to support small and medium businesses, which are the heart of our economy in New Zealand. So it beggars belief that National is opposing the bill. I can already see the misleading Facebook ad that they will put up about this bill, because an earlier speaker claimed that the provisions around uninvited direct sale might apply to people like Girl Guides. They had failed to read the bill. There is an explicit provision in it which specifically exempts any visits by charitable organisations\u2014and also by political parties, for those of us who will be doing doorknocking this year to ensure that we get another term in Government, to continue promoting fairness and equity not just in the business sector but throughout our economy. So National is opposing it, typically, because they are negative. I would encourage them to read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been a lot of debate on the Opposition side about the absence of a definition of \u201Cunconscionable\u201D in the bill. For those who weren\u2019t listening to Deborah Russell, she clearly went through that. If members go to the bill, look at clause 6, and look at the provisions that the bill puts in the new section 8 inserted by clause 6, which are the factors that the court has to consider in determining whether unconscionable conduct has occurred. There is a page of factors that enables the courts to build good case law around this. It ensures that we don\u2019t put in the legislation a limited definition. It allows it to be built through case law, but there has been a lot of thought on the factors that the court will take into account. I am heartened by the comments of the honourable Jonathan Young that the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee under his chairmanship is going to do a professional job. Look closely at those terms. I think they have been well drafted. They aim to ensure that \u201Cunconscionable\u201D doesn\u2019t have an excessive extent and that it will be determined by the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe National Party has also failed to take account of the work that has been done in Australia, where there has been some thought to what constitutes \u201Cunconscionable\u201D: it is serious misconduct by reference to the norms of society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is about fairness. It is about ensuring that smaller businesses\u2014recognising that they often have a limited power to negotiate in relation to larger companies. It is evening the scales. They don\u2019t often have the resources to engage in litigation, they don\u2019t have the bargaining power, and what this bill is doing is ensuring that there is a much better standard of conduct, by this unconscionable conduct test. It is protecting households against people like mobile traders who go and harass households and the vulnerable and persuade them to buy things that they don\u2019t want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis Government is about fairness. National can claim that it\u2019s the party of business, but it\u2019s not interested in fair business. It\u2019s interested in laissez-faire capitalism and leaving people just to survive as they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2e6d2241f064daa8d547ecf79574bd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2e6d2241f064daa8d547ecf79574bd6\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, I\u2019m on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, so I\u2019m looking forward to having this bill there, albeit that we\u2019ll be voting against it. But Jonathan Young is a fine chair of that committee and I\u2019m sure we will do our utmost to try and get this knocked into shape, albeit that it is the herculean task it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAt last, I understand why Kris Faafoi is not standing in the Mana electorate and is going to go on the list. He fears the \u201Cdo not knock\u201D signs popping up on all the doors around in his electorate, and he doesn\u2019t want to be caught by being fined for not leaving the premises. It is a rather silly provision, really. Ultimately, if somebody is on your property and you don\u2019t want them to be there, that\u2019s called trespass. You ask them to leave. There\u2019s a legislative path there, a legal path, if you want to deal with that. To actually add in more legislation, more rules, which is totally unnecessary\u2014it is really just a waste of Parliament\u2019s time and it really does heap costs back on to the consumers, the very people that it seeks to protect. Everything, as I said on the previous bill, which has lots of similarities to this one\u2014there is a symmetry in negotiations, there is a symmetry in sales and transactions. That is a fact of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe would be better to help financial literacy through our education system rather than teaching our students to go out and get on the streets and protest about climate change. They\u2019d be far better off being taught about financial literacy. The changing of the terms of a contract, which was mentioned by the New Zealand First member earlier and how unfair that is\u2014and I agree. If the terms of a signed contract are changed, then that is absolutely unfair. But that\u2019s, effectively, what the Minister is asking Parliament to give him the power to do, to give the Minister the power under regulation-making powers, a job that should be done here in Parliament and in the legislation. That is shoddy, lazy Government and it shouldn\u2019t happen and yet it\u2019s increasingly happening in legislation because they haven\u2019t done the work beforehand. This is a terrible bill and I\u2019m voting against it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002258cdf2d60e354d5f98cdaa80daa32124\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258cdf2d60e354d5f98cdaa80daa32124\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022af324df209904c7d81caa04203699205\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af324df209904c7d81caa04203699205\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take just a brief call on the Fair Trading Amendment Bill. I agree with the previous member around financial literacy. I guess it loosely relates to this bill, but I think it is something that we do have to have a good look at in our education system, and starting right from the primary school age. Financial skills are a key life skill and I think that they are underrated at times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a lot of arguments for and against this bill. What this bill comes down to is around fairness, around removing the potential for bullying. There was something that the Minister said, that those companies who engage in fair and reasonable contracts have nothing to fear from this bill; it actually doesn\u2019t relate to them. That is the majority of companies. The majority of companies do have fair and reasonable contracts, but there are some who don\u2019t and that\u2019s what this bill addresses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019d just like to touch specifically around the mobile traders. We\u2019ve heard a little bit about this, around the \u201Cdo not knock\u201D stickers and that people working for a company who disregard the \u201Cdo not knock\u201D sticker will potentially be liable for a fine of up to $10,000 and their company up to $30,000. Now, that is a large amount of money. However, that is a very important issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EConsumer New Zealand have welcomed this proposal. This is something that they\u2019ve been lobbying for for quite a while, because they\u2019ve seen the vulnerabilities that people often feel when they open the door to someone and they\u2019re asked to leave and that person does not leave. There\u2019s often quite a strong power imbalance and often a fear there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo this is an excellent bill, an excellent piece of legislation. I\u2019d like to congratulate the Minister, Kris Faafoi, and I commend this to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u00229966b2dbd35743d1956b15a9ad6852a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229966b2dbd35743d1956b15a9ad6852a0\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like my colleagues Jonathan Young and Clayton Mitchell over the other side, I\u2019m looking forward to this bill coming to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. When it does come to our committee, the thing I\u2019ll be looking at in particular is what I want to talk about tonight, which is this definition, or lack of definition, of \u201Cunconscionable conduct\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard tonight, this bill would amend the Fair Trading Act to prohibit unconscionable conduct in trade. The problem, of course, with the bill is it doesn\u2019t define what unconscionable conduct is; and, in fact, the Minister admitted as much in his contribution earlier tonight. Instead of defining it, he instead suggested that we look to Australia. So we have this extraordinary situation where not only will traders in New Zealand have to comply, of course, with all New Zealand laws, but they\u2019ll now have to, if this bill passes, look to Australia to see how the legislation there, or how unconscionable conduct there, is defined by the courts in Australia, before they can decide how they\u2019ll operate in New Zealand, which I find a pretty extraordinary situation. It\u2019s also a very, very poor way of making legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe will be voting against this bill tonight. I do look forward to it coming to the select committee, though, because there are some, I think, really important points that MPs on both sides of the House have actually raised about the Fair Trading Act, so we would like to get, I guess, a thorough thrashing out of some of those issues. But as the bill as currently drafted, where there is no definition of what unconscionable conduct is, despite prohibiting it, I can\u2019t support the bill and nor can my colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022274add02ac324c50aef9f42255060b8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274add02ac324c50aef9f42255060b8a\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you much, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to be standing here speaking in support of this Fair Trading Amendment Bill. I mean, it seems pretty straightforward to me, really. You know, the other side of the House, they call themselves the party of markets. The question I pose to the House is: how is it right to have a market that is acting where deception and bully-boy tactics and intimidation is OK? It\u2019s wrong. That\u2019s not a fair market. It\u2019s not a fair market. That\u2019s not fair trading. How is it OK where somebody can be intimidated into signing a contract that they didn\u2019t understand the terms of? You know, there are provisions currently in law and what this Government is saying within this particular bill is that we want to strengthen those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard tonight that there is a claim that we don\u2019t know what sort of activity this bill would capture. So let me provide some examples, if I may. Photographers, for example, being threatened, verbally abused, and blacklisted after asking for payments that were due. That sort of behaviour is unconscionable and it should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ffe327cb5e748e5a0ab347f505ba234\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The Nats like it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efba153a0de14083b785c58c9e114f55\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, evidently, they do, Mr Little. Evidently they are comfortable with that sort of behaviour, because they\u2019ve got an opportunity to support this bill and they\u2019re not. I\u2019m surprised by that, because really there\u2019s no ideological position to take on this. You\u2019re either for fairness or not. And that side of the House just evidently aren\u2019t. I mean, they\u2019ve got an opportunity to prove otherwise, but they\u2019re voting against this bill. They\u2019re trying to position themselves on the fence and say, \u201CLook, we\u2019ll have a rigorous discussion and we\u2019ve made some points and we\u2019ll look at improving it.\u201D Vote for the bill. They\u2019re not going to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another example: supermarkets penalising suppliers for promotion runs with other retailers by demanding compensation for perceived losses caused by other retailers\u2019 promotions, and deducting it from the payments to suppliers. How should that be tolerated? It shouldn\u2019t, and this bill, the Fair Trading Amendment Bill, is going to address that. That\u2019s why I have absolutely no hesitation in supporting it tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022476a8d4c300047d29574676e504b6bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022476a8d4c300047d29574676e504b6bc1\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve got to stand up straight after McAnulty\u2019s spoken. Now, I want to address a couple of issues in this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0086c77177463cb82b0baa5968b558\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t even know what that means, McKelvie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241993f8fdc2546ac92e7b9b9994f3d0a\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t mean that at all, Kieran\u2014ha, ha! There are a couple of issues in this bill. First of all, I\u2019m not on the select committee that\u2019s going to have to deal with it, so the piece I say on it tonight will be the last say I have on it, I guess. But I just want to refer to an issue that Jamie Strange raised, which I think is quite important, but I don\u2019t think this bill, unfortunately, deals with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIf you think about the door-to-door salesman in my day, when I was young. They sold eggs, bacon, sausages, newspapers, and that was about it. We now have, as society evolves, a very different type of door-to-door salesman. And if you think about unconscionable\u2014if I\u2019ve pronounced that correctly\u2014acts in the course of sales, I don\u2019t think this bill has got a show of capturing those people that we\u2019ve designed it to capture. I assume that a lot of that has got to do with clause 9 also, which talks about entering premises against the will of the property owner or the person or the resident of that house. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think this bill will deal with those issues. And the reason I think that, and we\u2019ve referred to Australia a lot already tonight, is that in 10 years and in an economy 10 times the size of ours, there have been two successful prosecutions under the Australian piece of law. So if you think that they\u2019ve had two successful prosecutions in 10 years in Australia, it\u2019s highly unlikely we\u2019re going to get one in 10 years, given that we\u2019re going to adopt the same criteria they use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think the intent of this legislation\u2014I think the intent of most legislation that comes to this House is good, but I don\u2019t think this bill is going to do what it sets out to do, and I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to achieve it. Actually, if you read clause 9 quite carefully, I suspect it does cover politicians knocking on doors and we\u2019ll probably get a few notices shoved in front of us to send us on our way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI also think that I can\u2019t read it in any way where it doesn\u2019t cover the Girl Guide biscuits scenario, for example. So I think it\u2019s going to capture things we don\u2019t want it to capture and it\u2019s going to let the people that we really want to get through the loophole. That\u2019s my small contribution to the bill and we clearly aren\u2019t supporting it at first reading, and I hope the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee can make something of it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229af97f89133a445b86f425cb6eeb47d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229af97f89133a445b86f425cb6eeb47d6\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. E Te Mana Whakaw\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Look, I just wanted to touch on one point really, and it is this scaremongering around the concept of unconscionability and the suggestion that it\u2019s in some way loose. This concept has a long tradition in the law, in equity, and it\u2019s also found, I must say, in the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act. The provision in that Act says that financiers can\u2019t act in a way that\u2019s unconscionable or in contravention of the standards of reasonable commercial practice. So over that time, both in case law alone but also through kind of legislative interpretation, the concept is very well understood and very clearly applied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s only a few elements to it. One is very obvious: that there\u2019s some advantage taking going on. Another element of it is the vulnerability of the person being taken advantage of and the kind of nexus between that is a knowledge or a wilful blindness of that weakness. And if you put those things together, we can see that we\u2019ve got some real wrongdoing. Added into that, there\u2019s almost always an inequality of exchange that goes hand-in-hand with it, that the bargain simply isn\u2019t a fair one, and when you put all that together and stand back, we get the fact that this transaction overall, as a whole, is simply inequitable; that a person in good conscience could not enter into it and take advantage of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo along with clauses 7 and 8 in the amendment bill, it was very clear that this will be a really useful tool. It\u2019s one that should have been there a long time ago. It doesn\u2019t just apply to entering into contracts; it also applies to the performance and enforcement of those contracts. It\u2019s a really useful addition to the tool kit that is found in the Fair Trading Act: protecting consumers from the abuses, the caveat emptor, the imbalance of power that often exists. A fantastic bill\u2014I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226dc01dab3f0346de8255009bd1a82873\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Fair Trading Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000677\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fd265df44594f11bdd9d051c46732cc\u0022\u003EOmbudsmen (Protection of Name) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249f36ab027ac4dc6842ed9e77bc63d8b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e17250cb020e4befb653b935f08bc3df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e17250cb020e4befb653b935f08bc3df\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002295bd47b7704d48018a0efd5aa9d7a0ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295bd47b7704d48018a0efd5aa9d7a0ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f25ec5c783d14141aa3e6bfe9cf4352b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 6 and Schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223bf4bb3bd5084ed589f4b64e0c11d3c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bf4bb3bd5084ed589f4b64e0c11d3c1\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E This is a very simple bill achieving to do a very simple thing: to prevent very simple people from abusing a very important office\u2014that is the Office of the Ombudsman. We have a provision in the current legislation that allows the Chief Ombudsman to grant others the use of the term \u201Combudsman\u201D. Previous Ombudsmen have done that on at least two occasions to private organisations. So, for example, we have what used to be known as the Banking Ombudsman\u2014I think it is now the Banking and Insurance Ombudsman\u2014and there is at least one other, whose name and purpose eludes me for the moment. But there are others who have been queuing up to use the name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe current Chief Ombudsman is concerned that the whole heritage of the role of the Office of the Ombudsman, which carries the important role of ensuring that the State and its agencies not only comply with the law but conduct themselves ethically and properly and in a way that best serves the interests of the citizens who those organisations are serving. It would be very easy for the gravitas of that office to be diluted were it not to be properly protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe motivation for this bill comes from a decision of the Court of Appeal in the last couple of years. The reasoning of the Court of Appeal appears to be that because previous Chief Ombudsmen have granted the use of the name of \u201Combudsman\u201D to private organisations, then other organisations seeking to use the name should not be denied the market advantage that goes with it. It almost, sort of, requires the Chief Ombudsman to compulsorily or mandatorily give the name, grant the use of the name, that the legislation seeks to actually allow to be protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo this takes the power of the decision away from the Chief Ombudsman and puts it in the hands of the Minister, but is very, very clear that it is not expected that this name would be used for anything other than organisations or relevant agencies in the State sector. Therefore, we won\u2019t have this proliferation of various ombudsmen or offices of ombudsmen. The real Office of the Ombudsman will continue to have the importance and gravitas that it now has. On that basis, I think it will make a very important contribution to the pantheon of law change that this Parliament will have achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00220aa77528137b4ba985ea0995682e4269\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aa77528137b4ba985ea0995682e4269\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E If there was ever a bill that was a solution looking for a problem, it\u2019s got to be this bill. What a complete and utter waste of Parliament\u2019s time. That\u2019s why the Minister stood\u2014he could only speak for 2\u00BD minutes. What does the bill do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b51b7cea0d7b41fb872d2c434904fa93\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225c18affd6f44658b28a750d3319ef57\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry, Mr Iain Lees-Galloway. Of course he wants me to sit down\u2014of course he does. Every time I get up, he\u2019s in trouble; he\u2019s running for the hills. He\u2019s blowing raspberries now\u2014classic response from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis is a complete, total, utter waste of time. This is a waste of this Parliament\u2019s time. This bill affects absolutely no one. All the good legislation\u2019s been through Parliament. All our legislation\u2019s come through. This Government that was meant to be transformational, with a Minister that was going to be transformational to our justice sector, brings an ombudsman\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWho does this actually affect? Do you want to know why it\u2019s here? The reason why it\u2019s here is because there is no proliferation of the use of the name, but there was an organisation that it passed the hurdles, passed the tests, should have been able to use the name quite legally. The Ombudsman and the Minister for some reason thought it wasn\u2019t appropriate. It went to court. They won it in court. So what do they do? They bring the legislation into the House to change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBring some serious legislation to the House, Minister, that we can get up and speak to. The reason why this Government\u2019s in trouble is if you look at the Order Paper there\u2019s nothing on the Order Paper. There\u2019s one more bill. We won\u2019t be taking calls on this\u2014waste of time. Watch the Government now start to filibuster it. Let\u2019s see. Let\u2019s see the Minister now continue to take calls on this fantastic ombudsman\u2019s bill. It\u2019s a complete and utter waste of time. It\u2019s a sham from a sham Government. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002274f5fa814ef34655b12f057fde509cdf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Clauses 1 to 6 and the Schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 6 and Schedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000693\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000694\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Ombudsmen (Protection of Name) Amendment Bill without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000695\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228543b3752298443fbdeb06b31878f439\u0022\u003ESmoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222b5ac80f4ee74badaef2ba69cd5a8fac\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u002280792490b86a45aaa5815514279b9eee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280792490b86a45aaa5815514279b9eee\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Associate Minister of Health: I move, That the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the Health Committee for their work and consideration of this bill. I\u2019m also extremely grateful to the people who submitted on this bill, especially wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and rangatahi. Their voices were essential for the consideration of this bill, as it is primarily designed to protect our children and tamariki from the harmful effects of second-hand smoke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EToo many of our wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and rangatahi are exposed to second-hand smoke in vehicles they travel in. Other jurisdictions like Australia, most Canadian provinces, and the United Kingdom have already put in place legislation to prohibit smoking in vehicles with children, and now it\u2019s our turn to do the right thing for our children. We have a duty under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child to enact legislation like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis bill will amend the Smoke-free Environments Act 1990 to make it an offence to smoke in a motor vehicle carrying anyone under 18 years old. Compliance and enforcement efforts will first and foremost be focused on public education and changing social norms. While this bill does introduce a new offence and infringement fee, I\u2019d like to emphasise that police will use their discretion over whether to issue a fee, give a warning, or provide information about stop-smoking cessation services available in our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Health Committee received 147 written submissions and heard 19 oral submissions. The vast majority were overwhelmingly in support of the bill and its intent. Most submitters believe this bill will protect wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and rangatahi from the dangers of second-hand smoke. During the process of consideration by the committee, submitters raised suggestions about how the bill could be improved. However, the committee was unable to recommend any amendments because of the relatively narrow focus of the bill, which, as I have said, is primarily about protecting our children from second-hand smoke in cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EI would briefly like to outline some of the suggestions made by the submitters. Firstly, submitters were concerned that vaping wasn\u2019t included in the scope of this bill, especially as we do not know the long-term effects of second-hand vaping. We share these concerns, which is why another bill will be introduced shortly that will prohibit both vaping and smokeless tobacco products\u2014for example, heat-not-burn products\u2014in all smoke-free areas, including vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003ESecondly, submitters argued against the bill\u2019s exemptions for vehicles which are stationary or used as a dwelling. This exemption makes it permissible for an adult to smoke in a vehicle with a child if the vehicle is stationary or used as a dwelling. People were unhappy with the idea that wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and rangatahi living in vehicles, including caravans and motorhomes, would not receive the same protection as those who were travelling in vehicles. The committee listened to those concerns and understood them, but they could not recommend any amendments to the bill as the Smoke-free Environments Act already treats public and private spaces like homes very differently. The bill does not take away a person\u2019s right to smoke in their own homes. We strongly urge anyone that is inclined to smoke in a car to step outside of the vehicle so that children are not forced to breathe in second-hand smoke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThe Opposition signalled in the Health Committee report on the bill that they would be proposing an amendment to the bill in the committee of the whole House stage to remove this exemption, meaning that police would be able to fine people for smoking in their motorhomes and caravans. I find this suggestion by the Opposition to be uncharacteristic of a party which has repeatedly voted against extending smoke-free provisions. They voted against a ban on smoking in workplaces, they voted against banning tobacco advertising, and almost all of them voted against a ban on smoking in bars and restaurants, but now they want a wide ban that includes people who choose to live in a motorhome from smoking in their own private dwelling. While we might disagree on this matter, I think we can all agree that not one single member of this House is supportive of people being forced to live in vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EFinally, most submitters thought the 18-month lead-in period was too long, and some committee members agreed. The committee understands that submitters have been waiting a long time for this bill, and they want action as soon as possible. They have the best interests of children at heart, and so do we, but there needs to be an effective transition between Royal assent and when the offences come into force, and we need to bring everyone along with us. The Ministry of Health needs time to educate the public about the changes being made to the law and for the Health Promotion Agency to develop and deliver an education campaign that will run before the offences come into force. We also need to be practical. Police have told the committee they need a minimum of 12 months, or perhaps even longer, to make sure the new offence can be included in their training programmes and IT systems. The 18 months is needed to make sure everything works before the bill becomes enforceable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to making New Zealand the best place in the world to be a child. This bill is part of our duty of care for the most vulnerable\u2014our children\u2014and for that reason, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002256a2a03464ba40eda13e521549bb489e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256a2a03464ba40eda13e521549bb489e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party supported this bill at first reading, and it did so primarily because of its intention to keep children safe, but despite misgivings that at least I had and expressed in the first reading about the degree to which the State becomes a player in the sovereign right of a family to determine decisions for itself, regardless of whether those decisions are good or bad. Now, the Minister introducing this bill at second reading was quick to remind the House that the National Party has opposed legislation around smoking in the past, which is a very interesting reflection on the fact that any decision the National Party has made in past years, decades, centuries is never forgotten, but decisions made by previous Labour Governments and Oppositions are never remembered, and I\u2019m going to come back to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe were looking forward to and I think we benefited from the submissions to the Health Committee by a number of submitters overwhelmingly, as the Minister has said, in favour of the bill\u2019s passage, but there were a number of areas that I think warranted serious consideration. While the committee may have done that, the Minister and, indeed, Cabinet were not prepared, and the officials could not recommend a single amendment to a bill that we thought had some flaws, and the National Party remains of that view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll start with the issue of smoking when the vehicle is used as a dwelling. The Minister, I believe, said that it was \u201Cstationary or used as a dwelling\u201D, and that\u2019s not what the bill says. The bill actually says that the vehicle needs to be stationary and used as a dwelling. Otherwise, anytime the car was stopped, the bill would not apply, and, indeed, I think that was probably just an error in the speech-writing. But it still strikes me as absolutely ludicrous and a reflection on the failure of the Government to fix what they saw as a problem of homelessness and people living in cars, to the point where they know that such dwellings are going to be used into the future and they are not prepared to extend this bill to exclude those situations. We think that\u2019s a mistake, and we will be introducing an amendment to this bill in the committee of the whole House deleting that provision. It is ridiculous, it is ludicrous, and it should not be in law. Indeed, what we are doing is proposing to Government that it removes its admission of failure\u2014failure to fix the issue of homelessness and living in cars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I want to also move to the issue that is beyond the scope of this bill, that, as the Minister said, was the subject of quite a bit of the submissions in the select committee, and that was the issue of extending this legislation to include what\u2019s, effectively, the modern ingestion of nicotine: vaping and heat-not-burn products. We heard some fantastic submissions from young people who shared their experience of the creeping prevalence of the use of vaping products by our young. Indeed, the anecdotes were disconcerting to the point where the committee became concerned at the failure of the Government to meet its own set timetable to introduce a regulatory framework for these products\u2014not even in cars, but just as an amendment to the Smoke-free Environments Act. What we heard from those young people was that despite the research and the surveys that people are relying on that say the incidence and prevalence of the use of these products by our young is low, actually, the anecdotes don\u2019t stack up. But I think that makes sense, because I don\u2019t think, even in a survey that might be anonymous, that young people would admit to the fact that they are regularly using these devices. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m ambivalent about whether or not this bill be amended to include vaping, but I am much, much more concerned at the complete absence of any regulatory controls on these devices. We had a court case, which may now be three years old, that said, actually, that the Smoke-free Environments Act doesn\u2019t apply to these vaping products, and it should. It\u2019s not a difficult policy decision or conundrum to be solved. The Associate Minister of Health has been lead-footed on this. I implore the Government to get on and get that bill before this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I find it, also, incredibly ironic and another concern that we have with this bill, and that is the use of police resources to police this process. Isn\u2019t it outrageous that we have a Government that says, in respect of this, it becomes law and we rely on police to use their discretion about their position of the law and the upholding of the law, but in respect of the Misuse of Drugs Act, an amendment to that Act was passed that directed police not to prosecute for possession and ingestion of any illicit substance\u2014from marijuana to heroin and all the bits in between\u2014when it is not in the public interest. So they direct the police not to prosecute, but invite the police to exercise their discretion on smoking in cars, for goodness\u2019 sake! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe Minister himself has said that the reason that the bill is not going to become effective sooner than 18 months after Royal assent is because the police need time to upgrade their systems to ensure that infringements and breaches of this law can be recorded in their police database. That is a completely incongruous situation if the police are able and prepared and willing to use their discretion\u2014and I encourage them to do that\u2014that the bill is going to be held up in its enactment while they change their IT systems so that they can do the opposite. It just underscores what a muddle this bill is and how inconsistent the Government is on the direction or discretion of the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I am disappointed that not a single change was made to this bill, and it does cause us some concern. But, on balance, we continue to remain of the view that this will, at the margins, benefit our young by encouraging people not to smoke in very close proximity to them. The evidence of the health harms is unequivocal; the evidence of the benefit of this amendment is actually quite equivocal. International studies have shown that there is some benefit but that those benefits can take several years to be apparent\u2014certainly outside the framework of the Government\u2019s goal for this country to be smoke-free by 2025, and, frankly, that lead-footedness is going to ensure that we fail in that goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to the committee of the whole House because I think there are some technical aspects of this bill that we should debate, that the National Party will be putting amendments up to provide sensible, straightforward improvements to this bill in the interests of the health of our young. I encourage the Government to be open-minded about that because, ultimately, this House is about making good laws, effective laws, evidence-based laws that will look after and protect and improve the health of our young. With that, on balance, the National Party will be supporting this bill at second reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00229c3e53ec05284da4b5cdfd8fedc0214c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c3e53ec05284da4b5cdfd8fedc0214c\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It was my absolute pleasure as the chair of the Health Committee to be involved in the deliberations on the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. The reason I enjoyed that process so much is because a group in Northland led by the Cancer Society, young people, and M\u0101ori who are passionate about auahi kore petitioned this Parliament. They petitioned this Parliament because they saw through their own evidence that a lot of the adults in the Northland community were smoking in cars with children. And that\u2019s where this bill came from. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI implore colleagues to read the select committee report. In highlighting the 147 written submissions and the 19 oral submissions, I want to read a list of groups that incorporated the voices of our children. So in addition to Cancer Society Northland, it was Wellington community justice, Holistic Action Sustainable Through All Generations, H\u0101pai te Hauora M\u0101ori public health, Empower Tangata Trust, the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner, Meremere holiday programme, Invercargill City Youth Council, and the students of Wainuiomata Intermediate School. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo this bill\u2014if you ever were to look at one which puts children at the centre of a piece of legislation that actually listens to the voices of children, it is this particular piece of legislation. Underlying what they told us was\u2014I used that in the select committee\u2014#wecantbreathe and #pleaseprotectus, and it was also #pleasehelpourparents: please help those adults in our world that smoke, that are finding it difficult, that need resources, they need a bit of tautoko. Which is why, to be quite frank, the 18 months allows the community through public health promotion initiatives to change behaviour before we actually need the enforcement by the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo there are no changes to this piece of legislation; that is a truism. There were a whole lot of other things discussed, including the differential between what is public space and what is a private space, and us being very clear in the smoke-free environments bill that we would never infringe on people\u2019s private spaces. We can get into the debates about, you know, the scenario that colleague Michael Woodhouse brought up, and the National Party can sell its own Supplementary Order Paper, but the reality is we need to pass this bill. We need this done urgently, and so I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228d18cdf17aa3419ca5a28c7341b70dfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d18cdf17aa3419ca5a28c7341b70dfb\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this in the second reading of the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EClearly, the goal of this bill is to protect children from second-hand smoke. What we know we already sort of knew going into the select committee, but what was reaffirmed to us through the select committee process was that the benefits here are clearly for young children and clearly for M\u0101ori in deprived areas. They seem to get disproportionate benefit. I think one of the submissions, particularly\u2014from the Auckland Regional Public Health Service\u2014helped quantify exactly what those benefits to avoiding second-hand smoking for children will be. They said that for under-16-year-olds, 15,000 children with asthma attacks will be prevented. They said for under-two-year-olds, 500, roughly, will be spared from being admitted with chest infections. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAgain, for under-two-year-olds, 15,000 glue ear operations will be prevented. I hadn\u2019t really sort of thought on it before as to that relationship. I knew the relationship existed between smoking and glue ear; not quite sure around the physiology. I mean, how does that work? So I sort of tried to look at it over the past few days. I\u2019m not much clearer other than it seems to be that the cigarette smoke irritates the Eustachian tube, closes it off, pulls the eardrum in, and you get glue building up behind the tympanic membrane, which is sort of the best conclusion I could get to. So that sort of makes sense, and that substantiates the data showing that there is a relationship there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIf we look at these submitters to the select committee, there were 120 submissions: 19 of them were oral submissions, 95 percent were in favour of the bill, and the other 5 percent were more just saying \u201CWe think education is a better solution.\u201D Submitters had six groups of concerns. Some didn\u2019t understand the bill, and you always get that in select committees, so there was a clarification task to be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EA number of submitters wanted vaping to be included in this bill and thought it was appropriate. If I could read here from the departmental report from officials addressing this, it says \u201CThe Smoke-free Environments (Vaping) Amendment Bill,\u201D\u2014and this is the departmental report from September 2019, September last year\u2014\u201Cwill be introduced shortly in the next few weeks,\u201D. Wow, September 2019, and officials are telling us it\u2019ll be introduced in the next few weeks. Goodness, that\u2019s a long few weeks. That\u2019s a lot of time between drinks before that\u2019s happened, yet that was the belief that officials were telling us, and that was the evidence that we proceeded through the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3da165c86b24cf1bbab5a45839dddcc\u0022\u003EHon Maggie Barry\u003C/span\u003E: Still no date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc7e6db4611e452c99173df73cbe89ff\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Still no date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe third of the six concerns that submitters had was the exemption for young people to smoke in a car. Officials again pointed to clause 37, where they said \u201CA person under the age of 18 who is smoking in the motor vehicle, either on their own or while people over the age of 18 are in the vehicle, is not committing an offence under [this] Bill.\u201D\u2014it\u2019s this next line from officials\u2014\u201CThe purpose of the Bill is the protection of young people from second-hand smoke, not direct smoking.\u201D When would we go past the opportunity not to offer protection and advice to children from direct smoking? Let me read that again: \u201CThe purpose of the Bill is the protection of young people from second-hand smoke, not direct smoking.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI think this bill is a good example of lost opportunities. We seem to have lost the opportunity around vaping. Here we are, we are losing the opportunity to address and help young people directly who are smoking. In officials\u2019 own words, it\u2019s a lost opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe fourth concern that submitters had, as my colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse has discussed, was the issue of stationary vehicles being considered a dwelling and being able to smoke as if it was a private dwelling in that vehicle. We\u2019ve got issues with that. We\u2019re going to raise that as a Supplementary Order Paper in the committee of the whole House. So we think that needs another go around. It just does not make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe fifth was reducing the lead-in time, an 18-month lead-in time. Again, substantively, that is for the IT requirements for police to be able to prosecute, if they need to, those who are caught. Wow, what a resource this is going to be for police. As, again, Michael Woodhouse said, how do we align that with the hands-off approach under the Misuse of Drugs Act? We\u2019ll exercise discretion, but, oh no, no, we\u2019re going to prosecute and need 18 months for police resources to figure out an IT system that lets us prosecute those who are smoking in vehicles. That also doesn\u2019t make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe sixth was submitters thought that enforcement shouldn\u2019t be punitive, that there needs to be some reflection around how we might change behaviour, but that it shouldn\u2019t substantially be punitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo there were these six things that submitters\u2014six themes, if you like\u2014talked to in this bill. They were thoughtful, and I acknowledge what Louisa Wall the chairperson was saying. I think some of the early start-off to this was the young folks under the help of the Cancer Society in Northland, who brought down a petition. It was on a board, because I recall getting it at Whangarei Airport. They said, \u201CShane, can you take this down and give it to either John Key or Bill English?\u201D, so I recall doing that. That would\u2019ve been maybe 2015, I\u2019m guessing\u2014there or thereabouts. Right from then to now, the young folks in Whang\u0101rei have sort of stayed in this mode, and it still beats for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ELook, it beats for all of us too, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re supporting it. But we think there\u2019s some parts here that can redress these lost opportunities, and we think we should take that ability that we have to fix it and get it right. There\u2019s a few things here we can do to make it better. So, with that, we\u2019re happy to support this through to the committee of the whole House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf9e56db4064928a2a4ab260352ff69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf9e56db4064928a2a4ab260352ff69\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take my call on behalf of New Zealand First on the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. It was a pleasure to sit on the Health Committee as we took a good look at this piece of legislation through that process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to, really, point out that this bill is very narrow in its focus because it is all about protecting children, and that is the sum total about this bill. It is sensible and practical and very pragmatic to take care of our tamariki. The first and foremost thing we must do is to change the social norm around smoking in vehicles, particularly when there are children and those under 18 years of age in that vehicle. So we are very pleased to be able to support this bill. One hundred and forty-seven written submissions were presented to the committee, 19 oral submissions were heard, and, of those, most were overwhelmingly supportive of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EA couple of things that struck me through that process in select committee were that when we put our focus on children, children absolutely add value to our thinking. They enhance our policy development. So it was an absolute pleasure to hear from all of the rangatahi, all of those that came to speak to us in the committee. We learnt about how they want to ensure that any young people don\u2019t sit in cars and suck in that second-hand smoke. We also heard that winding down the window is not a clear air solution. So literally stubbing out those cigarettes and not lighting up in the first place in a car is ideal if there are children in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EWe also heard about their concerns about vaping. I haven\u2019t really come across a lot of vaping, and it was interesting to hear from them how so many young people are vaping and it\u2019s all about the biggest cloud you can create. So they had concerns and actually wanted to have vaping included in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EAll in all, really, it is a very narrow bill which is all about taking care of the health and wellbeing of our children, because when they\u2019re in a car and an adult or a person is smoking, they do not have a choice. This now gives them that choice. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00225112aba2532e41948500d88c15e537ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225112aba2532e41948500d88c15e537ba\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call on this bill. Just to pick up where the previous speaker, Jenny Marcroft, left off, I think there\u2019s a lot of the purpose of the bill and the goals of this bill that we all agree on. We all want to make sure that our most vulnerable Kiwis, being our young Kiwis, are protected, and so I don\u2019t think we\u2019re disagreeing on that. We\u2019re not even disagreeing on supporting the bill. We are, in fact, supporting this bill through to the committee of the whole House stage, but we want to make sure that this bill has the maximum impact that it could possibly have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t sit on the Health Committee, but I\u2019ve had a chance to digest some of the key themes. I want to just pick up on, I think, a really important aspect from the select committee, which was around vaping, because I can\u2019t understand why we\u2019re advancing this bill to protect our young children, yet we\u2019re not making any substantial changes in the area of vaping\u2014particularly as it relates to, of course, protecting our young New Zealanders. There are no changes that come from select committee to this bill in the area of vaping, and this Government has had many chances and a lot of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EYou know, for the last two years we\u2019ve had calls on this Government to introduce some framework around vaping that would regulate it and protect our most vulnerable New Zealanders, our young children, from accessing and getting hands on these products, but this Government hasn\u2019t given us a date on, in fact, where we\u2019re at with that vaping legislation. They could have told us tonight; they were supposed to tell us a few weeks or so after September. Well, we\u2019re a few weeks after September of 2019. So we\u2019re failing to take action on what I think, and what the select committee submitters think, is a serious issue, which is around vaping and the lack of regulations that there are currently in existence. This is important, because of our goal in New Zealand, which is to be smoke-free by 2025, and vaping is a channel by which we can achieve that goal, but we do not have the clear regulations around that for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, we\u2019ll be putting up some Supplementary Order Papers around this in the committee of the whole House, but I ask and I call on the Government to act on this issue now. Introduce your legislation around vaping. We\u2019ve even given you a helping hand. There is a member\u2019s bill in the ballot that, effectively, regulates it. It\u2019s from my colleague Nicky Wagner. She\u2019s got a fantastic bill\u2014and I say this earnestly in a non-partisan fashion, right? She\u2019s got a great member\u2019s bill. You could just delete her name and take it as a Government bill, if you like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f83256c587e4847b0150431c35e5ed0\u0022\u003EHon Nicky Wagner\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll give it to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c372622450984ef5bced526cf9d635da\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019ll give it to you. This is such an important issue for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an important issue for my community in Northcote, where I\u2019ve got half a dozen vape shops around my area. They don\u2019t have the certainty of knowing how to go about their business. The people who are using these products don\u2019t have the certainty, and, as a result, the issue of the welfare of our young children in New Zealand is at risk. So I call on the Government to take my colleague\u2019s bill out of the members\u2019 ballot, to call it their own, and to introduce legislation tomorrow for vaping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, on balance, we\u2019re supporting this legislation in the House. There are a lot of flaws with this legislation, but I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd7d585c70514abaa099020c0f215028\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd7d585c70514abaa099020c0f215028\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. The submissions were largely in favour of the bill. We know that passive smoking, particularly in closed environments, leads to higher mortality rates, particularly from cancer\u2014in other words, passive smoking in motor vehicles carrying children. This bill will save lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EGiven all of that, we commend this bill to the House. We\u2019re looking forward to its rapid passage through the committee of the whole House stage, and on to its hasty conclusion\u2014it\u2019s that simple. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022 data-id=\u0022015199aef01a441c8cf2e925ee718b1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022015199aef01a441c8cf2e925ee718b1b\u0022\u003EHon NICKY WAGNER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is an interesting bill. There\u2019s no doubt about it, we should not be smoking in cars. If we want to look after our young children\u2019s health\u2014anybody\u2019s health, actually\u2014we shouldn\u2019t be smoking in cars, but it\u2019s unfortunate that we actually have to bring this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EIt is such an obvious thing to anyone that\u2019s involved in smoking and who has any knowledge at all about the effects of smoking that of course you wouldn\u2019t smoke in your car. It\u2019s a shame that we have to spend time on this, because I think one of the issues about this is how you enforce it. If people are still smoking in their cars when they understand the dangers of doing that for their children, it\u2019s very difficult to enforce that. We have seen around the world other police forces are tending to take a deep breath when they see somebody smoking in their car and to perhaps have a discussion with them, which is a good thing, because anybody who is smoking in their cars with young people is obviously addicted to smoking and really needs help rather than prosecution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI would like to echo what Dan Bidois said. I would far rather be sitting in this House tonight debating a bill that regulates vaping. We\u2019ve got to the stage where, if we want to achieve Smokefree 2025, we really have to make sure that people have options to give up smoking. What we\u2019ve got left in our community is people who find it really difficult to quit, and there\u2019s very strong communities that find that difficult. We need to give them all the support and all the resource to help them quit. One of those resources is regulating vaping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENow, the issue that we have with vaping is: how do we get the balance right? We want to encourage anybody who is a smoker to quit, and to use vaping to quit is a good option. For people who haven\u2019t been able to quit any other way, and who\u2019ve tried every other option\u2014they\u2019ve tried abstinence and they\u2019ve tried nicotine patches, they\u2019ve tried every kind of way to give up smoking\u2014vaping often is the answer for them. So we want anybody who smokes now to attempt to vape to quit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EBut what we don\u2019t want is young people taking up vaping. We understand that vaping is up to 95 percent less harmful than smoking, but we still don\u2019t want our young people taking it up. If you don\u2019t smoke, you shouldn\u2019t vape. So how do we promote vaping to people who are smokers to help them quit while not encouraging young people to take up vaping? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EActually, it\u2019s interesting. The research that\u2019s come out most recently has said that even though young people do try to vape, very few of them actually continue to do it regularly, particularly on a daily basis. That makes sense. Young people are absolutely wired to take risks\u2014to do things that their elders don\u2019t approve of. So I would far prefer, if it were my children, that they tried vaping than smoking. The key issue here is not to get too frightened about children taking up vaping, because the chances are that if they weren\u2019t vaping, they\u2019d be trying to fag behind the bike sheds. So the key issue here is how do we help people quit smoking by trying vaping and to support them with vaping, and how do we make sure that that balance is right so we don\u2019t encourage young people to vape? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003EI think if we reflect on what\u2019s happening around the world, we have the UK, which has had vaping for about at least a decade, or maybe 12 years. They\u2019ve had good, strong regulations around that and they don\u2019t seem to have had any problems, whereas we look at places like the US, which had very little regulation, and they\u2019ve got all sorts of issues there and problems that have come because there are no controls. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ENow, my bill, which I developed when I was the Associate Minister of Health, and I do have to point out that back in 2017\u2014it seems a long time ago now; about May 2017\u2014the National Cabinet passed a paper that endeavoured to produce that bill for Parliament. That bill was written up and it was ready to go. If we\u2019d been in Government, it would have been in the House much earlier than it is today. I took that Cabinet paper. I worked with that Cabinet paper to create a member\u2019s bill which is sitting in the ballot. The people who wrote that Cabinet paper are the same people that are advising the Minister of Health today about vaping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002292824476-4e66-4052-8435-b049833d8b83\u0022\u003ESo I would like to suggest that we should take up that bill, that we should use it, and we should get regulation in New Zealand, because at the moment it\u2019s the wild west. At the moment, young people have got the ability to vape, with no rules around it. If we have clear regulations to make sure that we look after the quality of not only the vaping implements but also the vaping juice, I think we would protect young people, so I ask the Minister to please get some regulations around vaping. I\u2019m very happy for her to use my bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00228645a811ed7b4726bae8ef2217f57025\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228645a811ed7b4726bae8ef2217f57025\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcfacfd483ff43679293ccfe49958541\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcfacfd483ff43679293ccfe49958541\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m delighted to stand and speak in the second reading of the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m going to leave aside vaping and talk about the bill. I do also acknowledge what the member Nicky Wagner is saying. However, we\u2019re talking about a bill that 147 written submissions were gathered for and we had 19 oral submissions. Now, I wasn\u2019t a member at the time that the submissions occurred. However, I was around at the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EOne of the things, I guess, that is really important that we all understand about this bill is that it is set up specifically to support the most vulnerable in our country. It\u2019s around those young people who are absolutely unable to make the choice to get mum or dad or someone else in the car to stop smoking. So this bill is a very simple, very small bill, with very limited scope, and that\u2019s what we are dealing with here\u2014very limited scope. It, essentially, just says that it becomes an offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003ENow, one of the things that the Opposition have been talking about tonight, which I would like to correct, is that it does not become a criminal offence and there is no prosecution. This is an infringement. So there will not be a criminal charge against the person. It\u2019s an infringement notice, so it is a very minor notice. People have talked about the fact that there will be a prosecution, but that doesn\u2019t happen in the infringement system. I just wanted to clarify that because I think it is extremely important that we\u2019re talking about a long run-in time. We\u2019re talking about 18 months in order to get this set up so that they police can train their staff. We\u2019re talking about having a computer system\u2014the ITS system\u2014managing this infringement process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EBut the reality is, very simply, it is protecting our young children, our young people, from smoking in cars. It doesn\u2019t do anything more than that. It\u2019s a good start. There is more to come, as the Minister said. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022090c2a1d74024dc48b8cfe109ca3cb39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022090c2a1d74024dc48b8cfe109ca3cb39\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t agree with much of what\u2019s been said on the opposing side, but I do commend this bill to the House and urge everyone to get on with it\u2014an 18-month delay. At this stage, we can talk about vaping, and that\u2019s what happens at second readings\u2014you talk about things that submitters have proposed. A lot of them talked about it. The Cancer Society has just said today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002284d519c9e0d6429a8e6cbdadea8dea71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284d519c9e0d6429a8e6cbdadea8dea71\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for the debate to be interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200212447736c1a4ac4e60a8dd7139042a514e000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"