"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002261e5bfd227014587baa19bc987b202e6\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 19 FEBRUARY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229ed1d657f6904d5796253eab84d8551e\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 19 FEBRUARY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220091f68642634522ae913fa3b272dcfc\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284cd8b795bfb4ef2a974dec72a28f753\u0022\u003ENew Caledonia\u2014President of the Congress\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227ae138f75c2c4f1baa3e81e16880d42f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ae138f75c2c4f1baa3e81e16880d42f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure members would wish to welcome Roch Wamytan, President of the Congress of New Caledonia, who is to my left, and his delegation, who are present in the gallery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EPresident Roch Wamytan, accompanied by Assistant Speaker Rurawhe, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c828dbb6db2f403e8c7b9e9e63713ff9\u0022\u003EEVIDENCE (DEFENDANT\u2019S SILENCE AT TRIAL) AMENDMENT bILL\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ff9e120dcf1406e9c1a5129dff98b06\u0022\u003EIntroduction\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff4da42fed9a4caca6f806d718cee9fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff4da42fed9a4caca6f806d718cee9fa\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to introduce the Evidence (Defendant\u2019s Silence at Trial) Amendment Bill, a member\u2019s bill in my name, and for the bill to be set down as members\u2019 order of the day No. 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002288fd915f7b84422ebbd0391b91923ac6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288fd915f7b84422ebbd0391b91923ac6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that process being followed? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022126b033fea424a48accc66eb32abb89d\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f671a460a3440268071be2349cbd455\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4531046cc61403899af095f21d56d84\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00226d3ad0cbd82142e5a9198a9879d0b4c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d3ad0cbd82142e5a9198a9879d0b4c1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002288a66da4bbd74f6b8cb6181036d9f851\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288a66da4bbd74f6b8cb6181036d9f851\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly this Government\u2019s economic management, which has seen the median disposable income after housing costs increase 10 percent over the past two years. It fell, I should note, 1.8 percent in 2017, under the National Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282b62dcbc8f446e86190b52da884455\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Deputy Prime Minister accountable to her for his behaviour? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056ac476e72641b7b4cabc93c8683c1f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member, having previously been a Minister, well understands the Cabinet Manual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298fe72679da4458a9ec1cb052ecbe74b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t know whether you heard that question, but MPs and Ministers may be \u201Caccountable\u201D, but they\u2019re not \u201Ccountable\u201D, and that\u2019s what he said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206d95cc072ce44aaa0b063ffb57ea28d\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s counting, all right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220df86918440841a7a86b16020f663c49\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was contemplating ruling it out for another reason, but I\u2019ve been asked to be liberal for both sides, and I will continue to do that. And, Mr Robertson, please don\u2019t act like a fourth-former. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c253d22fd8544eb8b20b30f899d503f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So does she accept that the Cabinet Manual states \u201CUltimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022986fdf2b5cf1478da8d3061c3d62f26b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, obviously\u2014and that\u2019s why I referred to the Cabinet Manual. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f14ec24d983410a8244bd144698dd34\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is an appropriate response for the Deputy Prime Minister to play \u201CRadio Ga Ga\u201D to press gallery journalists attempting to ask him serious questions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295428388e7004939b86a204b742fa60b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t see how that is relevant to the Cabinet Manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9c39e543cc84cf6940717fc573ee458\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Was her Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s refusal to answer questions from the media yesterday an example of just how far her Government has fallen from her pledge that her Government would be more open and transparent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280eb012e8bdb45fba32208878a726b47\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would remind the member that when asked about very similar matters on his side, the member himself also deferred answering questions that related to his party, and he would do well to remember that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228346f1f32698451aa558f47447fffc16\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister: why would a member of Parliament or, dare I say it, a Minister be responsible for answering questions to the media when the party that\u2019s setting the questions up hasn\u2019t got the courage to ask that member one question in the House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f32aa27dc4364b67bddbb443975494fe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c8251ccfaa4a64a2d042a2278a84ad\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t he ask me a question? Because he\u2019d get toasted\u2014that\u2019s why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220da25c4c715041999d17d2d8886956f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll remind the Deputy Prime Minister, as the most experienced member in the House, that he does not add to his contribution once his bottom hits his seat. I will say that the Prime Minister has a lot of responsibility, but why people won\u2019t ask him questions is not one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a35a16193b4227bccc362b2bd44f5a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does it take for a Minister in her Government to be stood down by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224537fb5d8e9d4ee9a73248d8510f50eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I maintain absolute responsibility for every decision that I make as the Prime Minister in this House, and I stand by every one that I have made to date. But, again, the member may wish to reflect on whether or not he is setting a standard here that he himself will not keep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1335c3697b4652ba3b509ba49d6079\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does a Minister have to do to get reprimanded by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f844387e9344384b299771c63092059\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Trifling\u2014trifling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f66e24b79b334251b6670f86f07f2667\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6afd431401e40b895071be8e53ce100\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I stand by every decision I have made as Prime Minister and the leadership I have shown on the issues that I have had to face to date. I would remind the member that whilst he is referring to Ministers, he himself is attempting to become the leader of New Zealand, and he is applying a standard here that he himself is not applying to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e7721eb8bc3422790766aa15a667cc8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Which party\u2019s political donations are the subject of four court cases right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022769d131f1b48427681e17c06a58e85e0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Prime Minister does not have responsibility for those prosecutions. I think if we got to the point of asking the Prime Minister general questions about who\u2019s before the courts for what, that would be an unhealthy stretch from current prime ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022076821a193104b63b62054ddcfb06952\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to the comment made by Heather Du Plessis-Allan earlier this week that the Prime Minister \u201Clooks either completely spineless or completely disinterested in running this country with integrity.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b02629c3956f477c9b1e3b5d16c3705b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows, because he is an experienced member, that dressing up something which is out of order in a quote is in itself out of order. He will not repeat that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e451e1bb9821405583ef016b105b6c18\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Regional Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u00226d1519e6020645429b43fdbc3e29d5b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d1519e6020645429b43fdbc3e29d5b7\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: How is the Provincial Growth Fund supporting drought-stricken areas in Northland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c629bbe5ec684cc5a440a301d5f2340b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And on this occasion, it is the Hon Shane Jones\u2019 chance to answer a question for himself, not for someone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00224d32d345264f47c2ab63f2b2d9cf60ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d32d345264f47c2ab63f2b2d9cf60ca\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for those words of wisdom. They shall fall in the appropriate place. The Provincial Growth Fund, supporting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227024034024c24d9ca97403268d8f6fe3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If I could wave a finger at the member, I would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1997742f41a4db39c096d099989cc80\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Up to $2 million has been allocated to set up temporary water supplies in Kaikohe and Kait\u0101ia, funding the infrastructure necessary to pipe water from a Sweetwater farm and, in Kaikohe, from Lake \u014Cm\u0101pere. Up to $2 million will also be supported by approximately $400,000 from the Far North District Council. Former Ministry for Primary Industries director-general Martyn Dunne will lead the project, reflective of how concerned the Government is to address outstanding issues in provincial New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1fcd8c9ce74983a48ddc49748cbfe3\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Why has this intervention been necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022932bded1c1b1490fbfa65a985a7e77ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CBecause we cancelled the previous Government\u2019s fund.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fa794139f4f4d02aa77d30e02b8afc8\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re useless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222381f277078b490d8ba2a19ac40d961d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, there are noises from the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250757859df5f4d518c02445c29af2bbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. Who made that interjection? Who made it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d3373fd68954065baae1173ef5f9f66\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228792e0542202462d8e44b8a2fcbc6742\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The one that was directed at me. Marja Lubeck will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221787e2929fd7432d982f7ac792668999\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f2c271aa90e4b4cb745a5b1cbdb6411\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s not a wise thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485f612366f64a8cb27ea590ad9abf4b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, there were noises from the other side of the House. However, I realise some MPs may thunder out into the provinces and whimper in this House. I\u2019m a lion on all occasions. Last week, Damien O\u2019Connor, Minister, announced that the Northland drought is an adverse event. It has begun to affect essential facilities\u2014schools are threatened, hospitals, old people\u2019s homes. A variety of essential services are at risk. Trucking water to the regions is proving to be prohibitively expensive. Residents should be able to go about their lives knowing that we believe, although you live in isolated parts of New Zealand, they deserve First World services, and I\u2019m happy to accommodate those demands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bac70a7d622f41d99a981dfa229115df\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What other water storage schemes have been supported by the Provincial Growth Fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fd8e8be6936412ead8c8e7f4d02be74\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Just to dispel any misapprehensions that the love is only being shared in the north, Wairarapa has been in receipt of significant support, and I acknowledge the various MPs\u2014in particular, the right honourable Ron Mark and my colleague here from Labour\u2014for their advocacy that Wairarapa not be overlooked. In addition to that, we are addressing concerns in the Kaipara Harbour because land-use change is on its way. But the Government cannot step back and remain aloof from the requests for assistance from landowners. Consequently, the first citizen of the provinces is stepping up for Northland yet again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b72f3fb9d074844966afc47f4fdbdf8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00227a240f02eb7b435cbc9e1705cdf50f0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a240f02eb7b435cbc9e1705cdf50f0b\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002277b6e0ae90004999983bc12bac5ffb6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277b6e0ae90004999983bc12bac5ffb6e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen a range of reports which demonstrate the underlying strength of the New Zealand economy. The latest BNZ-Business NZ Performance of Services Index (PSI) shows that the services sector expanded in January at its fastest rate since March 2018. The PSI reading for January was 57.1, up five points from December, the third-largest one-month gain in the survey\u2019s history. BNZ economists said that the details \u201Coozed strength\u201D, with new orders, sales, and employment all sitting above their respective long-term averages. Similarly, the ANZ Truckometer indicated a steady start to the year for our transport industry, with both the Light Traffic Index and the Heavy Traffic Index up. ANZ sees the recent slow-down in economic momentum, having found a floor, consistent with its economic forecasts. While these reports both show a positive start to the year for the economy, they both warn of uncertainty and risk created by the COVID-19 virus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f6f67f1ef14fbba87ec1e740c21c31\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: What are the emerging risks from the COVID-19 virus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b029c49e950145d5bfbc3fa1c000eb8b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury has been developing scenarios alongside the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) and the Reserve Bank to help understand the potential economic impacts that the COVID-19 outbreak may have on New Zealand. Obviously, the virus is having an impact on global supply chains and confidence that goes along with that. Therefore, Treasury\u2019s latest advice is it will have a negative but temporary impact on directly exposed sectors such as tourism, export education, and some primary industries such as forestry and seafood. This will be felt in the GDP data for the first and second quarters of 2020, and Treasury then expects economic activity to return to normal as global growth picks up and supply conditions normalise in the second half of the year. Independent bank forecasters are therefore pointing to 2 to 2.5 percent growth in 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab7a4ebde9b04b389314b4c79b445360\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government managing and mitigating the risks posed by COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022302acb97fa0d41ff8fec161f25f1748f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We are in a good position to respond to any impacts of the virus because our economy, ultimately, is in good shape. There are the travel restrictions that people will be aware of, and just in the last couple of days, we\u2019ve announced an investment of an initial $11 million into a tourism package to support what is an incredibly important sector to New Zealand, in an acknowledgment of the crucial role that China does play in our tourism industry. Looking ahead, we remain vigilant. If the virus outbreak is prolonged and the economic effects are sustained, other scenarios may come into play. We are working through those as part of the Treasury, MBIE, and Reserve Bank work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ece85a37b4b345f9ab67d3f61fd6659b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba755c82d7394a93ab5f8fe3c2c17ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba755c82d7394a93ab5f8fe3c2c17ef1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022820965ddebed4158b81278f6aec998df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022820965ddebed4158b81278f6aec998df\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly this Government\u2019s measures to boost the incomes of the lowest-income earners, which saw 46,000 people lifted out of poverty last year. Now, despite some of the stats that you hear quoted by the Leader of the Opposition, this is actually the first data that starts to show\u2014just starts to show\u2014some of the impact of the Government\u2019s Families Package and minimum wage increase, and it demonstrates they are making a difference to people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223294a41fc9554364928e5ec319665c5e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support the Commissioner for Children\u2019s statement earlier this week that the right to silence should be abolished in child abuse cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9060da171bf4a94943aaefdb60c77ca\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with his sentiment; I think all New Zealanders would. The situation where we have no one being held responsible for what is a devastating case is something that of course we want to see changed. I would say to the member: I don\u2019t think we\u2019d be in disagreement on this. I know some years ago this was something that the National Party faced when they were in Government. They sought to make law changes. Clearly, that hasn\u2019t necessarily been the solution we needed. We\u2019re now going ahead and looking again to see whether or not there are other solutions, and this is one of those issues where if the member would like to join us, I\u2019d welcome it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258bb49c61cb744ffadef66f556323c38\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What will I be joining her in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed36dce81f44b2d856567c795670778\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: In finding a solution that works, because the last attempt by the last Government didn\u2019t. It doesn\u2019t need to be political. It\u2019s a solution for kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb37fdd3b0384971b28a0f646d668ef8\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will her Government make it an offence to criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e114d41bdca46e08f5e3a11a1868576\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will well know, some attempts such as that had been used in other countries unsuccessfully. Surely, what we want to do is something effective. We are looking at the experience of Australia, where they have not had successful convictions through their law change. So we are looking at this issue, but we\u2019re looking for a solution, not something that\u2019s failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aef54060ceee425fabcf19f2eb3ce987\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So is it then the case that her and her Government will not support an offence to criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695459ac892543838ee88a3ccb0bf327\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I implore the member to work with us as we find something that works. The evidence is that what Victoria did failed. The evidence is that what you last tried to do, unfortunately, has failed. None of us want a situation where a child can be harmed in this way and no one is held to account. So the member will forgive us if we\u2019ve only had a few days to work on this, but we are going to keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ef870ea7e242489f910a6c96577e15\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So is it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0642e4304814c5ea38539c28d75d7bf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry, before the member goes on\u2014and I apologise to him\u2014Mr Jones, Mr Davis, Mr Robertson, and about 10 members from this side, led by the shadow Leader of the House, are making it very hard for me to hear the Prime Minister. I think all members agree that this is a serious issue. People might have different solutions and different views, but I think, given the seriousness of it, members should let other members hear what\u2019s being said by the Leader of the Opposition and the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfbd4a857e964fc09d4fc7aa39e5cc7e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case, to be clear, that she and her Government will not support an offence to criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224b0a79cadb04b8781b033575129ce8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll support an initiative that works. Again, I come back to the Victoria 2014 law. Failure to disclose has led to eight charges and zero convictions in, basically, six years. I know the member feels deeply about this; so do I. So we need to find something that will work, not just on paper but in reality, for kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225280088cb43f42e7b1fb7cac3765ec39\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Leader of the Opposition told the Prime Minister that the right to silence does not exist in the case of the Serious Fraud Office having an investigation into party fund-raising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258349fe32296422a9e93a120851794f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a discussion I\u2019ve had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8c66c74c95b4f59a9e521ab79c1e3fa\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she find a solution to the Ihum\u0101tao land dispute soon given that the chief executive of Fletcher\u2019s today has said they are \u201Cnot in a position to hold off [the] development indefinitely.\u201D and certainly won\u2019t wait another seven months for a resolution to the dispute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288fb9b7c629040e1b8acbba55dafad67\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That continues to be my ambition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220bb3730bda84bd98af075abba6fd37e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022afe80d61185c4421a721d7aea17f608d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afe80d61185c4421a721d7aea17f608d\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What action is the Government taking to prevent homelessness in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022babdac04e3884c05aa1232cb20b6c27c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022babdac04e3884c05aa1232cb20b6c27c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The Homelessness Action Plan was released last week, and it aims to both prevent people becoming homeless in the first place and reduce the reliance on motels by increasing the supply of transitional housing. We\u2019ll deliver a thousand new transitional housing places by the end of the year, which adds to the 1,300 places we\u2019ve already created since the Government was formed. We\u2019re also providing funding to expand a range of other initiatives to ensure people have the support they need to avoid becoming homeless. But we recognise that there is more to do, because we\u2019re committed to making sure every New Zealander has a warm, dry, secure home to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c1a273504974ec1ac72baa43097fdf7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Nice speech\u2014it means nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e58469b87184ce18bf19ade68e298e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019m just going to say to the shadow Leader of the House that I think he asked seven supplementary questions during that answer. Can I just suggest that if he really wants to have one, he stands up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5846717dd6498f9dfd9f0b13325acb\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There was no answer, Mr Speaker, so it\u2019d be a waste of time asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65757c4193445c28cb3f5ac9e0657d7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, if the member cares to go back and reflect on what was said, I think at least three of his supplementary questions were answered. It\u2019s a matter of listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ed3cfcedff4dac8ef8b47e862368fa\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How does this fit with other actions the Government is taking to prevent homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226963030f78a42ba8f00bc630a3450f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Alongside the thousand additional places we\u2019re delivering, of which I note 63 were available on the day of the announcement, and 39 had families living in them, we\u2019ve put in place the largest public house build programme in a generation, with 4,000 new places added since we took office. It was unfortunate that at a time when demand for public housing was rising, the previous Government sold off State houses. We stopped that and we\u2019re putting things right by getting on and building more public housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279301ae55e864ec2bd73b80ba4309a55\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has she seen to the Government\u2019s Homelessness Action Plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243dfd2b9ad6a4c88ba261c11893ff924\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen a range of very encouraging comments about the Government\u2019s plan. For example, Scott Figenshow, chief executive of Community Housing Aotearoa, said, \u201CIn 10 years\u2019 time, New Zealand will look back on this announcement as a turning point in how we bring an end to the housing crisis.\u201D Unfortunately, I\u2019ve also heard one commentator describe the Government\u2019s action to prevent homelessness as \u201Cknee-jerk, wasteful expenditure\u201D. That dismissive tone to a serious crisis came from the leader of the National Party, and, frankly, I find it disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022049e561e0aeb4210b64f78ceb029e686\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022db2747afef55425296a5c4bc41eaa634\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db2747afef55425296a5c4bc41eaa634\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by all his statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5790429c2d34efd8d0d53fc1cf5c8f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5790429c2d34efd8d0d53fc1cf5c8f6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to statements, I stand by all but one of them, which I\u2019ll talk about shortly. In relation to policies, I stand by the Government\u2019s policies, since as Minister I have none of my own. In relation to statements, at question time last week, I made a statement that there was concern about the National Party funnelling donations to electorate candidates through their party, including to the Hon Nick Smith, whose only declared donation in the 2017 election was a $25,000 donation from the National Party. I\u2019d like to set the record straight\u2014that, in fact, Nick Smith had two donations, one from the National Party for $25,000, and another for $223.30 but also from the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a3cbb1024746638a8783ed1b590c99\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that protecting the freedom of the press is vital to holding those in authority to account; if so, is the photographing and social media intimidation of journalists, as has occurred in the last week, consistent with Government policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e18c013ef9e04782bc832aa1b1a42f0e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to the first part of the question and in accordance with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a5893bdea9412c80556ef8e553277f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he, noting his statements about the importance of the free press, share the concerns of the union E t\u016B that the photographing and vilifying of journalists last week was \u201Cchillingly similar to countries where press freedom is suppressed\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccdff093806b4469aefedd62cb6451a5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I have noted both my statements and those of E t\u016B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d492b4bf734d434dbe3563cab4617690\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Is his stated policy of promoting freedom of the press supported by a journalist being called \u201Ca psycho\u201D by the Deputy Prime Minister for asking questions about the propriety of a $15 million application for Government money from parties closely associated with the New Zealand First Foundation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac809aa661e54e36a9fe40bcb21b07de\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the letter of the law and the spirit of the law as contained in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which protects\u2014through the application of the Act, in consideration of when laws are being applied\u2014the protection of the freedom of expression.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245435c0c70a47ce875689a7726256bc\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe it\u2019s consistent with the freedom of the press for media officers to be raided by the police, and, if so, is he aware of any examples where that has happened in recent times in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb5d81da5e1418791a58471283eaa5f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I would be most concerned if those in positions of power and authority were to use the powers\u2014perhaps of the police\u2014to raid the offices of journalists and broadcasters and publishers, and I\u2019m aware that that has happened in recent New Zealand history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022117b8b0531284a7eac3170055f87db3c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288374fd08e134f69a2e799f1d9791642\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df5b2f2bbc4a4a72825ee602037a9b47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a430502e99574f6895d6e8848517e3db\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down. Can I ask the Minister whether or not he has heard of any examples in this country, in this country\u2019s law, or anywhere around the free and Western World where an inquiry has been sought into an application for funding that failed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e4f7d9e4244794b7f537e454a190d7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I think that there have been inquiries of a judicial or quasi-judicial nature into a number of things, including into an application for a grant that was declined, and that has also happened in recent New Zealand history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e919ea744c6e46d88ebbfcfeef03b9c1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does his statement last night that \u201CThe Electoral Commission are thorough, good at their job, and very professional.\u201D give him confidence in their determination last week that New Zealand First\u2019s donations were not properly disclosed under the Electoral Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b05707588414f699451cd6d37848fc4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by my statements and my general support of the Electoral Commission, and I note that they have a power of inquiry but they do not determine guilt or innocence of breaches of that Act or any other Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225074f4029fba467591432e279d706e6e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Which statement is correct: his statement last night \u201CThe Electoral Commission are thorough, good at their job, and very professional.\u201D or the statement by the Deputy Prime Minister last week that \u201CThe commission has no proof and no evidence and should be damned.\u201D; which statement is correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f48bd112eff04a02b37d5857a8f40de8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf549668ba94f1b8b8f95505d5d9e12\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order\u2014I think I know what it is, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e7792e0cbea4486a98aa91bd878ace6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker. That is a statement from that questioner which I did not make, and that last word proves that. He cannot recite the evidence for the quote he gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203152dad623a4eb2950134dd52986120\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I\u2019d be happy to table the news report that exactly quotes the words that I used in the question of what the Deputy Prime Minister said in criticising the Electoral Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a163b4f0d704bf88476c675fe77c9ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019ll go straight to answering the question. I think it\u2019s the easiest way of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02a5a55706941028990a0610a79519f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. In light of the scope of the primary question, I continue to stand by all of my statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e46756abd604c41ae1cde87a20426d8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Minister not repeated his previous statements on the importance of freedom of the media with the repeated attacks, in the last week, on those freedoms, with journalists being ridiculed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febafebba4b74310aee299fd2142c20d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s finished his question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30d9d2394ef40ac80a21d2f45697981\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: On every occasion I have been called upon to stand in support of journalists\u2019 rights and responsibilities and freedom of the press and freedom of expression, I have done so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acf8a8bd0f2346f592446e441823cd26\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022290c6c67c5b34507bb43b8e02a8fef87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022290c6c67c5b34507bb43b8e02a8fef87\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his policies and statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002237c05a621e9149b0a1e71a8510d9d805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237c05a621e9149b0a1e71a8510d9d805\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context they were made and given. In particular, I stand by my statement yesterday about the situation this Government inherited where \u201CWe had hospitals that had been run down, $2 billion not put into the health system that needed to be, kids being taught in school halls and libraries instead of classrooms, not enough teachers, and not enough police officers.\u201D, and that we\u2019re getting on with fixing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf0687b3242f4ade89e887bc15644bbf\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement to Radio New Zealand on 19 November last year regarding Ihum\u0101tao that the Government was continuing efforts to find a solution that respected all parties including the Crown, mana whenua, and Fletcher\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec20604c7934ea1af1a18bd59ba7b30\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e4eea1e0c434506ba5b14095cb6cba4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he understand the frustration of Fletcher\u2019s chief executive, Ross Taylor, when he said today, \u201CThe reality is \u2026 we are \u2026 legal owners of a piece of land which is fully consented, that is empathetic to iwi considerations \u2026 and which we are entitled to develop.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acb9555be2cf42a09113a9a731550f9f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think if the member refers to Mr Taylor\u2019s full statement, he will talk about the fact that he believes that a solution is close to hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf437f56c0ca4bbeb7bd7b401b477c44\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Who will pay for the seven months\u2019 delay that Fletcher\u2019s has suffered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022972915ff79df402485b1e6c600414789\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Any issues around what will happen with payments are to come in the future, and I\u2019m not in a position to comment on them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238cf5cbce3eb454d8d85573e705d1ddd\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that more houses have been stopped from being built at Ihum\u0101tao than have been built by his Government\u2019s $2 billion KiwiBuild programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3c8be9fc56427f946b9414357c0fbf\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we\u2019re extremely proud of the housebuilding that\u2019s gone on under this Government. The fact that more than 3,000 houses have been built, and the fact that we\u2019ve actually got public housing finally going forward after nine years of it going backwards and State houses being sold off, means we can be very proud of the houses we have built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc4c44db1e874b06a4579df82a38c38f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So is it the case that more houses have been stopped from being built at Ihum\u0101tao than have been built by his Government\u2019s $2 billion KiwiBuild programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ef78f4da0c4492a202dfa466797823\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1423e6fb0a426cbdaba8f855ae2199\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that had the last Government built houses at the rate of this Government, we would not have the waiting lists that we currently have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022715f96ac28e547d6a784140a5ca5ba98\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely can confirm that for the Prime Minister. The fact that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208db398568af498b8dc9caf16085b119\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No you can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e159746a5ab4b2eb7854d716b8a2732\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no we can, Mr Brownlee, because the rate of houses that we\u2019re building now is something that Government never even got near. At the same time, in the middle of a housing crisis, the response of that Government was to sell State houses. It is a disgraceful legacy, Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221460685fed9346e998c53d78f5e3c13c\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen reports that in the electorate of Napier, for example, the previous Government pulled down over 140 State housing units and built absolutely none?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236671c7a720241dbb61d0bf998a99998\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In fact, I have. The member for Napier has been a consistent advocate for housing in his area, and finally, under this Government, he is starting to see some progress on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ddd2a453bcd43b4b42132af79194395\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002224241fee400042e1815094e2a781607d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224241fee400042e1815094e2a781607d\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made about upgrading mental health and addiction facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228821486cf94b4fbaabdbc41458f82714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228821486cf94b4fbaabdbc41458f82714\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is taking mental health seriously. We\u2019re building new services, and we\u2019re investing in new and upgraded facilities that support people\u2019s care and treatment. As part of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, $96 million has been set aside for new and improved mental health and addiction facilities. That $96 million is on top of the $200 million that was ring-fenced for mental health facilities in Budget 2019. This additional investment will make a huge difference to mental health workers and the people that they care for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f633ffdfb145ea84adfa679c990355\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Bay of Plenty benefit from mental health investment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287855935ef6d4fa49132ce03174c1e0c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: So far, we\u2019ve announced funding for four projects as part of the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. Two of these are in the Bay of Plenty: $30 million has been set aside for the development of a new acute mental health facility at Tauranga Hospital, and a further $15 million for the facility at Whakat\u0101ne Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270009de1487e43bfbe70ef9eabd9dee7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: So good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226002eb66866e4b42bbb579680a7b5963\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is so good. I visited the mental health facility in Whakat\u0101ne last year and it was tired, and well past its use-by date. These investments will mean the Bay of Plenty has modern mental health facilities that better support people\u2019s care and are fit to meet future demand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c72e966eff4e4f2c999e3bb5d22509e6\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How will the mighty Hutt Valley benefit from mental health investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8699dabe2d140cd98f080a7e27577ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will ask her question without\u2014while I might well agree with the adjective, it\u2019s not something that should be part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206065514849446af80523258ca7b5930\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Hutt Valley benefit from mental health investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b8245f12f840c187a356658bd2bd5a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As Minister of Health, I have visited mental health and addiction facilities across New Zealand, and all too often it\u2019s been clear to me that they have been neglected for many years. In the Hutt Valley, $25 million will be invested in a new acute mental health facility. This will be welcome news not just for the local representative who asked the question but also for the people that use the facility and for the staff that look after them it will provide a more therapeutic and culturally appropriate environment. In Taranaki, as well, $5 million has been set aside there to allow the DHB to complete refurbishments of its mental health facility. All these New Zealand upgrade projects build on earlier investments in mental health and addiction facilities, including at Hillmorton in Christchurch and the new facilities in Tai R\u0101whiti, Hamilton, and Palmerston North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bf63b99d11f479c812f8e258d3d93d3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022495ac2f9febe49b7816b565c4ce1f1fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022495ac2f9febe49b7816b565c4ce1f1fe\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CI could not conceive of such a power to compel someone to make a statement\u201D, and will the Government criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002258d173a040ef4dbda26dc28f4d2a0c27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258d173a040ef4dbda26dc28f4d2a0c27\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to the first part of the member\u2019s question, I stand by my full statement that \u201CThe New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 sets out people\u2019s basic rights and equally determines the power of the State and its agencies. No person can be compelled to submit to an interview with the police apart from an obligation to provide identifying details, name, address, and occupation. I could not conceive of such a power to compel someone to make a statement ever being acceptable to New Zealanders\u201D. In relation to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I note that the previous Government considered mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse that would have been accompanied by a criminal sanction when they made changes to the Oranga Tamariki Act, and they decided not to progress that provision. They had the chance and they didn\u2019t take it then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d878be32f56547689787367c3c00c910\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: When he said, yesterday on Magic Talk radio, \u201CTell me what the law is to change that doesn\u2019t encroach on the longstanding kind of protections for innocent people we have\u201D, does he believe that family members who close rank and refuse to disclose information about child abuse to police when they\u2019re asked are innocent bystanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ba5ee5d95e1411798b616d09e4a84da\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I stand with all New Zealanders who are absolutely appalled and outraged at the fact that a little infant boy sits in a hospital bed in Auckland because those who were charged with looking after him and loving him and caring for him did not do so. That is an outrage on the values of all New Zealanders and New Zealand. However, we need to make sure that when the police are conducting their inquiries, they do so with a legal framework that means that they get to do their job but without encroaching on basic rights and protections that every citizen has. Right now, the police are struggling to find someone to give any indication about who might have been in close proximity to that boy as they conduct their investigation. What I also pity is the fact that in these very difficult situations when the police are trying to do their job, when a community is trying to support the police in doing their job, there are those who would take political advantage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c205f8e8c6894e08ab9ba2d1ea5ec1b7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Whose rights does the Minister think are more important: the four-year-old child that we have lying with a serious brain injury in Starship hospital or the adults who are closing ranks, refusing to cooperate with police, and not allowing the perpetrator to be identified, arrested, and charged?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b42ccee0884431a887bdfca96b56318\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I stand firmly with the rights of that little infant boy who sits in that hospital bed. Who I do not stand with are politicians who grandstand, who make calls for law changes that they would never contemplate, who make calls for law changes that when they had the opportunity in 2017 to do that did nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7a178411214b1c8f121b6a9e380bc5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jacinda Ardern\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member confirm that the sad and appalling situation of silence around child abuse has happened before, and it was under the last Government and their actions at that time that was not to change this convention but instead to create an offence of failing to take reasonable steps to protect a child or vulnerable adult, that that has not resulted in a solution here, and that that is not a case for blame but a case for us to find another solution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022896af8020f684b9abafee99288c76c3a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the Prime Minister that the duty on all those who are in a position to do so is to find solutions that work. In fairness to the previous Government, at least when Judith Collins was the Minister and shepherded through the 2011 law change, it did make some difference, there have been charges laid, and there have been convictions reached. The Victorian state legislation, passed in 2014, which did decriminalise failure to disclose, while it led to eight charges, has led to absolutely no convictions. But it\u2019s on that basis that I have asked justice officials to have a close look at the way\u2014when the police are interviewing somebody, when there is a real prospect of prosecution and laying a charge, that we change the warning that is given so it shifts the balance toward an emphasis on disclosure by the person being interviewed, and not the right to silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ed11ab1846f41df9f89771ce80267d2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that it\u2019s grandstanding when members of this Parliament are highly offended by the fact that we have a four-year-old Kiwi child in Starship hospital\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ada2977701427d9873ee3862436fe4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. He knows that\u2019s not a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c559d65e80a54a75a911dc532ac6def5\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc4c0afedca4895881d3c2a4925ae22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A supplementary question on this occasion, Mr Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0ad72bd27b4cf58658eb6c496bf64a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think New Zealanders would not accept a law change that would criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f6fe2b377d540d8993e6f7d70c326e7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Because if they were prepared to accept it, the previous Government would have done it when it had the opportunity to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060f1174f75d4d5c97739d9da7f0c6ee\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Will he work with National to pass legislation that will help ensure those that perpetrate violence against our children are held to account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9218f04ca31440d900db2c9133783a6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m prepared to work with any member of this House who is prepared to do something useful, sensible, and that will actually work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220dcf4b7599624d5d8db3f8516c580f5a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022347d3bc60de242f18ad139c81bad8ada\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022347d3bc60de242f18ad139c81bad8ada\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Why has the Government not gone out to the market and invited other bids for the Auckland light rail project, when he said yesterday, \u201Cthe unsolicited proposal from NZ Infra is unique. Nothing like that has ever been tackled before in New Zealand, and the Government took the view that it was best to assess that financing and governance model and consider whether we wanted to do that before then going out to the market and inviting other bids\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002294158afe49f54653b36e9c9b27365d70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294158afe49f54653b36e9c9b27365d70\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my comments of yesterday. NZ Infra submitted an unsolicited proposal for the delivery of light rail in Auckland. Consistent with procurement guidelines, the Government is giving further consideration to that proposal. It\u2019s doing this by considering it against the alternative option of a procurement led by the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA). Following the Cabinet decision on our preferred delivery partner, the market will then be able to engage with either NZ Infra or NZTA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da2693fe73ed49e882cc5a7f91253a23\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just reflect on that answer and whether or not it actually addressed the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f82a5e0c7d440889267f1b766bc2b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I listened to it very, very carefully, and I studied the question very carefully, and it was answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204922a7191094431a8cf4a02c57e3e5b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government not see if there was any interest in the wider international infrastructure construction market in building Auckland light rail, particularly once it received an unsolicited bid to build it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acfb85e9e7f94ca6b4b4a8e17ed4a74f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to ask the member to rephrase that in light of the answer that was received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0e7725035854107955a7c73d7032373\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What were the Government\u2019s reasons for not testing the feasibility of building light rail in Auckland with the wider international construction market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0b360a0a3dc4921b9df4ec2dba0a751\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s necessary to follow the Government procurement guidelines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a8bad8e24c4cd8bb5e32735e619d34\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government limited itself to only two preferred delivery partners for Auckland light rail?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022217da9164b284286867d8451ee618ee3\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Because the Government procurement guidelines contain a process explicitly designed to deal with unsolicited bids, and we believe it was right to follow those guidelines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea454f7458074c8abdf84f1298e53d32\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is he seriously saying to the House that, in the event that the Government receives an unsolicited bid for a project that the Government is seeking to procure, the procurement guidelines compel the Government to then put that unsolicited bid up against the other proposal on the table, and that\u2019s it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297a71b2a38ea45afa0e5d6aa232ffe46\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The guidelines contain a process for dealing with unsolicited bids, and we have followed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249feca61ee644c8cbfb40927f22b24ec\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has he or his office had any engagement with the Office of the Auditor-General regarding the procurement process for Auckland light rail?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225152058cfaad46b4b8d94a1bed2eb40b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, but I\u2019ll say this: Cabinet decided to undertake this process on the basis of advice from a number of Government agencies. The Ministry of Transport has been leading a process in conjunction with various stakeholders and with oversight from Audit New Zealand and Crown Law. And the process is entirely consistent with the procurement guidelines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c77b1702ad4d6898ede9a4b64b6d80\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a chance that Cabinet will decide not to proceed with either the NZ Infra or NZ Transport Agency proposals, and if so, what happens then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda3aa802e51411ba5dafa005276e389\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a hypothetical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2994ef7abac423c89a85b8a993c83c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u002287b1a2e57f384e0f8cb2d5516e8eae20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287b1a2e57f384e0f8cb2d5516e8eae20\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does he stand by the coalition Government\u2019s commitment to increase the minimum wage to $20 an hour by 1 April 2021; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdec085ab2b849a29b9d13323cd76221\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdec085ab2b849a29b9d13323cd76221\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, absolutely. This Government is committed to sharing New Zealand\u2019s prosperity more fairly. With unemployment at 4 percent, and strong growth in the number of people in full-time employment, this is the perfect time to lift the minimum wage. We\u2019ve increased the minimum wage from $15.75 an hour to $18.90 this term, and we are committed to raising the minimum wage to $20 per hour next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214a8176c206541f9bd3974aa814f105b\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What impact do minimum wage increases have for working people and their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faecdc8d7f89458e94067814e9e20100\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: In six weeks\u2019 time, around a quarter of a million workers will get a pay increase to $18.90 an hour. The increases we have made this term are equivalent to more than $6,500 a year in the pay packet of a full-time worker. That\u2019s money for things like school uniforms, healthy food, and sports equipment. When hard-working people on low incomes have more money in their pocket, they spend it in their local community, and that is great news for the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216536694565b4219867937fbff861cb6\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What criticisms has the Minister seen of planned minimum wage increases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1fa06040bb49e9a3ef5d7b90861df3\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen some reports from commentators who are against higher wages for hard-working, low-paid New Zealanders. One commentator this week suggested that cancelling the Government\u2019s minimum wage increase to $20 per hour is worth thinking about. Doing that would cost a full-time worker on the minimum wage around $2,300 per year. It\u2019s a timely reminder that people who work hard for lower wages get left behind when National\u2019s in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229578dfc47a7b4f029384e793f97ca956\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcdd4417290d4e06b5aab4240cfdb25b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcdd4417290d4e06b5aab4240cfdb25b\u0022\u003EHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00229e42af3662434406b9c9ffee58af8e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e42af3662434406b9c9ffee58af8e1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly this Government\u2019s investment in Customs to tackle drugs, which saw a record 3 tonnes of drugs stopped at our borders in 2019. This is also going to prevent harm\u2014a harm reduction worth about $3 billion. This is in addition to measures like recruiting more police and restricting access to firearms, which I encourage members across the House to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf1173f809344bfa79f24a4fa06e036\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support legalising recreational cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7f604bb1404a7196a90cafb8b515c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As the member well knows, I\u2019ve taken the position that it\u2019s my job to ensure that New Zealanders have information they can rely on in this referendum and that they make their decision on their own but with the best information possible. That\u2019s the role I\u2019ll play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3c0ccd4a0d47d8aa6b04c190bf972b\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the statement by Duncan Garner that it is \u201Ca pathetic cop-out from the Prime Minister\u201D that she is not confirming her position on legalising recreational cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214cd5ec7122d4d6e956179070fd9a578\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I think he may have actually even said it to me. I maintain the position that I have\u2014that it is actually up to every New Zealander to place their vote, and their vote will be as good as my vote, but my job is to make sure that they have the best information possible. I\u2019ve asked my Chief Science Advisor to play a role in that, and I\u2019ll maintain that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225719122baeea4c9d8cdf284b1f090ee1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s even more stupid than you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022840e6678b06544af8dc5502a0e1db191\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The Deputy Prime Minister will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218de3de6b9404809bcbcac2dff3b7a61\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d914f8d2ffd848b8bf630f6795a3e6ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It seems like the most experienced and the least experienced members are making the same mistake today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573c1427e19a4277be3db641730ec910\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she support the wording of the referendum question being a specific reference to legalising recreational cannabis in order to avoid confusion with medicinal cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222005a91744b04f5b9906a673e0e8ffb7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I think there is value in making it clear that laws have already been changed around medicinal cannabis, and we wouldn\u2019t wish to confuse the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bfb15d84c4842abab30b691ae57af79\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that New Zealanders will be able to vote on whether they choose to legalise and control cannabis as per the draft bill, come this year\u2019s general election on 19 September?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d11c656eb972411ab7ae9f94c9d1857f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and, of course, what we prepared is a draft bill so that there will be that full information available to members of the public\u2014that if they support the bill, that is the legislation that at least three parties in this House have said that they will then support to enact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa8205ecd64446548a53e30528d11778\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Is one of the main reasons her Government is holding a referendum on legalising recreational cannabis because she doesn\u2019t believe people should be imprisoned for cannabis possession or use?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f58891d5de8242e4abd3e0befe60cf95\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because we believe New Zealanders should have their say on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d50fabe5d34da8bd7e49e628661142\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: So one of the main reasons in the Cabinet paper was that they believed that they should not be imprisoned. Can she confirm, then, that the number of people in New Zealand convicted and sentenced to imprisonment solely for cannabis possession and use in the 2017-18 year was one person?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a8813443345428f901c588edcea80fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve read that Cabinet paper, and, whilst it is not in front of me now, I can tell the member that one of the primary reasons noted in that paper was harm minimisation and the reduction of cannabis use. That is one of the goals. It is up to the public to determine whether or not they believe that is the best way to reduce cannabis use in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c09f02c652594a57b6e9b272c55b344c\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258a7c39556434b8ca2860a000d1eee91\u0022\u003EDebate on Prime Minister\u2019s Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000217\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 18 February.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222b5c5b8b5841461c8ff5a119eccbfb9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b5c5b8b5841461c8ff5a119eccbfb9e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E While we\u2019ve been in the House today, the name suppression has been lifted in the case that has been brought by the Serious Fraud Office in relation to donations to the National Party. Unsurprisingly, I think, members will be able to learn now that the people involved are the very people who we heard about last year in the taped phone conversation between Simon Bridges and Jami-Lee Ross. Jami-Lee Ross is one of the people who has been charged, and it is very important for members of this House to remember that he has been charged about activities he undertook when he was the whip of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI heard on Morning Report this morning the leader of the National Party try to claim he didn\u2019t know anything about the $100,000 donations to the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd62c2a607d4340beef16bae5db7144\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I want to remind the Minister of Finance of Standing Orders 115(1) and (2) and (3), which make it very clear that matters awaiting or under adjudication, or supressed in any court\u2014and it\u2019s not a suppression order any more, but it is under adjudication\u2014may not be referred to in any debate, subject to the discretion of the Speaker and the right of the House to legislate on a matter. If a member wants to refer to a matter that is currently awaiting adjudication, one needs to refer to 115(2), whereby an application is made to me, and my decision, which I certainly have not made in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee6b231bcbf4e5fb7631f0cf8dc1dd3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I respect, obviously, that ruling. I just would like some clarification around referring to matters that are in the media that report on the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261e42fee13184a50a7f61edd4be45f32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One does not get around the Standing Orders of this House by the fact that some media have reported something. The Standing Orders of the House stand on their own, and the fact that it has been reported that a particular matter\u2014even previously reported, before there were charges\u2014has occurred is not an escape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ENow, the member, and certainly the member on his right and the shadow Leader of the House, will remember that there was at one stage a considerable debate within the Standing Orders Committee on this. There was one member who stood for a different position. That member is currently standing here. He had no support from colleagues on either side of the House. It is my view that the Standing Orders are inappropriate in this case. The member should have the right to comment on cases before the courts if they so wish and they do so in a careful manner, but the decision of this House was, on the review of the Standing Orders, that that right does not exist. As the Speaker, I must enforce rules even if I think they\u2019re not the best rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220563cadf3f25479aa516e454dbc2d613\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: So on Morning Report this morning, I heard the leader of the National Party claim to have no knowledge whatsoever of activities inside his own party. That speaks volumes about the lack of leadership that is being shown by Simon Bridges, and all the more so coming on the back, as it did, of a so-called economic speech given by the Leader of the Opposition earlier this week\u2014a speech that was the most overhyped speech I have seen in my time in this House. It was empty of any actual ideas for how to move New Zealand forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s not just me that has been saying this. The Stuff editorial this morning, and all of the Stuff papers across New Zealand, said that \u201Cvoters will rightly be wary of National\u2019s business-as-usual approach in such rapidly changing times.\u201D It also quoted a very modest man named Grant Robertson, who said \u201Ctax cuts always come with a tradeoff.\u201D, and then it talked about what National was doing and said \u201CNowadays, \u2026 we are not swayed by the mirage.\u201D That\u2019s all they\u2019ve got. All they\u2019ve got is a mirage. There\u2019s no actual policy; it\u2019s a mirage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI look forward to this election campaign, where Paul Goldsmith will have to show me the money, because there is no sign that the National Party understands that if there are going to be tax cuts, there are trade-offs, and we know from the National Party\u2019s history what those trade-offs will be. It means money not going into our schools. It means money not going into our hospitals. It means not enough police officers on the beat. It means ignoring a housing crisis, and going the other way and selling State houses. It means taking money out of the pockets of the lowest-income New Zealanders by deciding that the minimum wage doesn\u2019t need to go up. They are the trade-offs that the National Party likes to make in the pursuit of these kinds of policies. So we will see in this election campaign who has the promises that add up, and who is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is a great honour for me to be the Minister of Finance in this Government. Everywhere I go around New Zealand, I have the conversations with the business community where we get into the numbers of being the Minister of Finance, and I am proud of the numbers that this Government has\u2014the fact that we do have annual growth of 2.7 percent, putting us well ahead of our trading partners, and, even though as the economy globally slows down, New Zealand continues to outperform Canada, Japan, Australia, the UK, and the euro area. Our economic management approach of, yes, being careful and of making sure that we do reduce our debt as a percentage of GDP\u2014it is less now than when we came in. We\u2019ve just spent $12 billion on infrastructure, and our net debt is still less than when we came in. We have run $13 billion worth of surpluses, and we will run them again in the future. Unemployment is down to 4 percent. We\u2019ve got great numbers coming out of the consumer confidence services index. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I can spend all day and all of this contribution on the numbers, but that\u2019s actually not what being the Minister of Finance is about. It is fundamentally about people, and making sure that all the people of New Zealand get to share in our prosperity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI just think of three or four of the people I have met in recent times who show how this economy is working more for all New Zealanders. The young woman that I met in Kawakawa, who was working on the Hundertwasser Art Centre, and who had come through to work on that project from Mana in Mahi\u2014from Willie Jackson\u2019s work that he has been doing in Mana in Mahi. That young woman had come from being on the unemployment benefit for more than six months. She did not know what she wanted to do with her life, and because a Government cared about her and this Government cared what happened to her, she\u2019s now on that site. She\u2019s actually running the place, to be frank\u2014a Ng\u0101puhi woman, clearly, from there; running the show\u2014making sure that that building is being built well, and working with her fellow cadets who are working on that site. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also think of the school principal here in Wellington, at Karori West Normal School: Janice Shramka, a woman who will soon be retiring after distinguished service in the education system in New Zealand. I went and visited her in January, 12 days before school started, because I knew Janice would be there, because that\u2019s how committed our schoolteachers and principals are. I found her\u2014after walking around the school for a while\u2014standing on one of the paddocks out the back with a local tradesperson, writing down the projects that they would be doing with the $376,299 that this Government have given for her school to be able to do that work. What Janice Shramka told me that day was that she had gone off on her holiday in December the happiest she had been in most of her time as a school principal, because she walked away knowing that the teachers in her school were being paid properly, that we were finally addressing pay issues for teacher aides, that we actually finally had supported the rebuilding of property, and that she could finally do those $376,000 worth of jobs that hadn\u2019t been done in her school. She said, \u201CWe now have a Government that cares about education.\u201D, and I want to congratulate Minister Chris Hipkins on his leadership of that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen I think of the community services card holder who wrote to me last year about the fact\u2014she\u2019s an older woman now\u2014that the stress had been lifted from her life by the fact that she could go to the doctor knowing she could afford it, and that she wasn\u2019t making a decision about her health on the grounds of money but on the grounds of how she felt. She finally felt that she had some confidence because of our policy of reducing the cost of going to the doctor for more than 600,000 New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen I also think of the older New Zealanders who have written, I think, probably to most of the MPs on this side of the House about the winter energy payment, about the fact that those basic decisions about keeping warm in winter can now be made without the fear of the costs, and about the fact that people can heat their homes, not just one room. We all know the story of people who were only heating one room in their home because they couldn\u2019t afford it. The winter energy payment has come along and delivered to those people some security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo for me, being the Minister of Finance, yes it\u2019s about the numbers, yes it\u2019s about making sure that as a country we prepare ourselves for the future, but it\u2019s mostly about the people, and that\u2019s what got forgotten for nine years. They sat on that side of the House\u2014on this side of the House then\u2014and said, \u201CWe\u2019ve got a rock star economy because we\u2019ve got growth rates at a particular level.\u201D Well, the rock star economy was delivering the schools where people were being taught in classrooms. It was delivering the mouldy hospitals. It was delivering the dirty rivers. That\u2019s not success, and on this side of the House, we\u2019re proud that we are taking a different approach to what constitutes success in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe know that as a country now, we once again will face challenging times in our economy created by an external force\u2014in this case, COVID-19. But we know that this Government, as a result of what we\u2019ve done for the last two years, means we are well prepared to face up to that, and I can guarantee New Zealanders that this Government will continue to invest in them. We\u2019ll continue to invest in our people, in strengthening our communities, and in protecting our environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBy the time we get to September this year, the choice will be ever more stark between a Government and parties of this Government who are looking to the future, who are futureproofing our economy, who when we give speeches about the economy, we mention climate change, unlike the Leader of the Opposition. The choice will be between a Government focused on the future and futureproofing our economy and a Government with their eyes in the rear-view mirror, selling tired old ideas\u2014selling a mirage, as the Stuff editorial said today. That is the choice at this election: whether or not we want to go forward as a country confident, prosperous and sharing that prosperity, or whether we want to go back to selfish individualism on the other side of the House. The choice is clear. A Jacinda Ardern - led Government will be re-elected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002235edeaa968ee4e3da043ca75f2373fa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235edeaa968ee4e3da043ca75f2373fa4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to draw your attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 32/4 and ask you a question with regards to that Speaker\u2019s ruling. It\u2019s a longstanding ruling from 1989 by then Deputy Speaker Terris, where he said that \u201CThere are no grounds for ruling against a member making a statement that there is a legal action in existence.\u201D My question there is, really, around the definition of \u201Clegal action\u201D, whether the fact that there is a legal action taking place in the court\u2014whether referring to the fact that that is happening is something that members cannot do, or whether that is, in fact, acceptable. I accept that having read all of the relevant Speakers\u2019 rulings around matters before the court, it\u2019s important that the Parliament doesn\u2019t get into the specifics of the case or seek to influence the court in any way, but surely a member must still be able to refer to the fact that there is an action in existence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ead61a3f4a48462cb353191dbf1ea8d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ead61a3f4a48462cb353191dbf1ea8d7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a random thing with Speaker Terris\u2019 rulings, and on the basis of statistics he would occasionally get one right. This, I think, is probably that one. The fact that there is a legal case in existence can be referred to, but Mr Robertson certainly went further than that previously and referred to detail of it, and that is something which is not allowed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00221781ea475da3465fb23942214631c0f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221781ea475da3465fb23942214631c0f4\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Minister of Finance, in Opposition, said \u201CJudge performance by GDP per capita.\u201D The truth and the fail mark for that Minister is that every year that he has been Minister, our country has gone backwards and it has gone to the lowest level in more than a decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut this afternoon, I want to talk about d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu of a slow-motion train wreck of another Labour Government over big secret donations to Mr Peters. We have a Deputy Prime Minister who has been caught out not complying with our electoral laws\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df3c2056a7f445f9940188701a62d0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd4dd369de44e6fba55747dfaba7e3e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014now lashing out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4ca15e0ba64dcc8bd5d47ee92a5c01\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat when I stand. The member knows that he cannot accuse a member in that way. He knows that he cannot. I\u2019m listening very carefully to him, as I listened to the member before, and the Standing Orders will be applied strictly, including to that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d874443d9184d76821c9b8a6ce91572\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I seek clarity, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101bc00e7e6140528154ee7487513c39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member will continue his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df06a782b32481dae5b802800b4b26e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The language I used was identical to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248676014e94e4408ac8b3a2d5319bb75\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I said the member will continue his speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a27e1a706d894d48b29cc2fb75969734\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Electoral Commission has concluded that Mr Peters did not comply with our electoral laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d8b974c1da4c599e9e87e63a464762\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. The member will withdraw that statement unless he can provide me with the writing, in writing, to that about that member of the House, naming that member. If he cannot, he will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce692ed824404b7abd39755c7c96928b\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. The New Zealand First Party has been found by the Electoral Commission to have not complied with our electoral rules, and he is now lashing out with ugly attacks on the media, on his own previous party officials, on the Opposition, and even on respected institutions like our Electoral Commission. The worst part of this whole debacle is that neither the Prime Minister nor any member opposite will stand up for the core Kiwi values that underpin our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, Grant Robertson has made mention of the issues involving Jami-Lee Ross. I\u2019ll totally observe the ruling that you have just made, Mr Speaker, but here\u2019s the interesting part: why did the Labour Party substitute on to the Justice Committee, on the issues of electoral law, that member when such serious conduct was in question? And why does the Labour Party continue to exercise the vote for that member when, frankly, every member of this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222b79bd910f543648cb1d56eddc780f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. It\u2019s not generally the rule that the Speaker intervenes on matters of fact, but when someone is making an allegation as to who is exercising votes in the House, it is the obligation of the members to tell the truth. The member will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eacc50f3451a412a8db1d444c94a280a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The whips for the Labour Party have been exercising the votes for that member. But let\u2019s go back to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221086e25703014fe0bfd2239c98789a46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Look, again, it is not my role to make sure that the member observes the facts, but when he is making incorrect statements\u2014and he knows he\u2019s making incorrect statements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e2919714c8b49a08c19ee1ee826aac0\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, he doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e006b18866403888576882f364fc94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member has been in the House hundreds of times when votes have been exercised for Jami-Lee Ross, and if he cannot tell the difference\u2014the member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224081b08fc2545798a7f80bfee22b007\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re running a protection racket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dad676271f64416c8f8303c4e7188176\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call the next member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f77e4100ac4a6ab7b82a3038d0f98c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Mr Speaker. Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022563839e5334246ec9506498bdd0e9f69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ve terminated the member\u2019s speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210b0f88bec84642a6aa7ac90bd63285\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The House has sat and tolerated that member blaming the New Zealand First Party, not accurately reflecting that it is the foundation that is being studied. Secondly, he has misrepresented\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae30ca580ef43efb6cd77a4a8dc931b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! The member will resume his seat, OK? I have dealt with Dr Nick Smith. He has made an exceptionally unparliamentary reference to me, and I have terminated his speech. Is there another member who wants the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f97857ab3a914a85932d8cc7b8041b95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f97857ab3a914a85932d8cc7b8041b95\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E Apologies, sir. The way in which it was reflected, I did not gather that you had terminated his speech. I apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThis is a dark day in terms of how low the National Party are prepared to go. They are losing support with this form of smear, deviousness, stigmatisation. They have no friends here. They are losing support amongst garden-variety Kiwis who are not interested in the National Party taking up the cause of the media. The media is not made up of shrinking violets; they are key contributors to the democratic process through the fourth estate. They don\u2019t need Paula Bennett to conveniently forget the last nine years of history. They don\u2019t need Nick Smith to overlook his own patchy record on such matters pertaining to judicial appearances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want to come back and talk about what Kiwis are genuinely interested in. Let us speak about four things. Today, they raised the question as to why we are maintaining the right of silence in matters pertaining to child abuse\u2014and I will not talk about a case that may or may not be currently being investigated by the police. The right of silence is an ancient doctrine. The police currently have a host of other options available to them if they want to squeeze people who should be talking and make them talk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESecondly, how many times over the last nine years have we seen this pattern, sorry to say, too disproportionately amongst my own community, the M\u0101ori community. I say to the people, the gangs, the gang hangers-on, up in Hawke\u2019s Bay and other places: when children are traumatised, assaulted, if you do not speak up, you are cowards. Don\u2019t blame Oranga Tamariki when the remedy lies within yourselves. Stand up and shine the torchlight of honesty on the affairs of their own wh\u0101nau. People who act in that cowardly fashion, we call them, in the Ng\u0101puhi country, kutus\u2014they are a type of social head lice\u2014and I condemn all the people that are hiding behind either legal doctrine or manufactured excuses called colonialisation so as not to take responsibility for this awful social disease afflicting many of the members of our M\u0101ori community, where little ones are punished and older people who ought to be held responsible are evading those responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ELet me now talk about the gangs. The gangs are a social cancer, and partly what I\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House, I cannot but agree, but I say to the other side of the House: over the last nine years, you allowed the police resources to shrink in proportion to the growth of the P-fuelled gang mayhem. As the gangs sent back people, either willingly or unwillingly, from Australia to New Zealand, that\u2019s when we needed a massive increase in surveillance and statutory power and in police numbers. So excuse me if we think \u201Ccrocodile tears\u201D when the other side of the House all of a sudden wants to borrow some Schwarzenegger approach of wandering around South Auckland and other such places in souped-up armoured vehicles. The reality is: follow the money, honey. That is a famous expression, and it is what we must do in order to curb and bring these gangsters\u2014the gangsters with muscle and bling are creating the most destructive image amongst the rangatahi, the young people, that we are endeavouring to work for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo, be under no illusions: the gangs have no friends amongst our party. That\u2019s not to say Christian reformation is not possible, but if you want to take the Christian route, get your gang patch, dig a hole, and burn it. Don\u2019t try and pretend to be Christian, turning up at Waitangi but whilst you\u2019re secretly continuing to deal the lifeblood of gangs, which is cruelty, menace, money, and death.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI want now to talk about what the people of the North have been saying today. They are glad that they have a champion\u2014not the sitting member, who thunders back home and whimpers when he\u2019s in Parliament, not the trolls that continually seek to undermine the work of our stakeholders and various leaders in the North. They are happy that a Government, within a remarkably short period of time, has provided a remedy to a Zimbabwe-like problem of water access in Kaikohe and Kait\u0101ia. The council should not be allowed to get off scot-free as we have announced $2 million to ensure that our senior citizens, our k\u014Dhanga children, our schoolchildren, our businesses, garden-variety households can enjoy what you and I expect to enjoy every day in urban New Zealand: access to volumes of quality water. We have solved that problem in the short term today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t solve those problems unless you\u2019re prepared to take risks, and we didn\u2019t come from the North into Parliament without the ability to absorb risk and manage risk. Now, I know outside of the North there are other places that central government should look at, but the Northerners today can breathe a sigh of relief that in myself and the other three Ministers, we have made a robust decision that will ensure that they enjoy access to water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ERecently, I was privileged to catch a ride on KiwiRail, and we went to the Waiotira tunnel, built in 1920. It has taken the Jacinda Ardern - Winston Peters duo of leadership, a hundred years later, for a Government to go back and fix up that tunnel. What we are finding in KiwiRail is that they\u2019re not relying on the Australian-based, overpriced consultants. They have had the ability to draw and harness talent long since neglected and overlooked by the other side of the House to fix up the infrastructure ourselves. All they ever needed was some p\u016Btea, some self-belief, and a clear direction, a pathway of hope. That\u2019s what KiwiRail, as a key feature of an integrated and robust future transport system, has by working with the current Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere are five things\u2014if you look at a star, it\u2019s got five points. Of course, now there\u2019s a thing called the \u201CNorthern Star\u201D, and I don\u2019t claim to be that; I\u2019m talking about the five-pointed political policy star shining in the North. The first point of that star is the revitalisation of rail north of Auckland into the North. Thank you, Rt Hon Winston Peters. The second point of that star is the creation of a world-leading dry dock facility owned and operated by Babcock in association with the navy. The third point of the star is the four-lane highway. To demonstrate that our party, our Government, is willing to take a risk, bring forward $12 billion worth of expenditure. There will be a four-lane highway from Whang\u0101rei to the new, expanded Northport in Ruak\u0101k\u0101, Marsden Point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe fourth point of the star is that the Ports of Auckland will move. The Prime Minister has identified that the current location of the Ports of Auckland has outlived its social licence. It will go. Work is being done as to whether or not it goes to Tauranga, to Northland\u2014or whether or not, as certain consultants would like, we\u2019re going to build a massive island in the Manukau Harbour and hope that the ships of the world will go over the most treacherous bar in New Zealand, or we\u2019re going to build a massive island in the Firth of Thames. I have very, very dim views about both of those options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe fifth thing which we ought to bear in mind is the longstanding challenge that goes back to John Banks\u2019 days of relocating the naval resources out of Devonport, freeing up that estate for housing, providing an opportunity for new entrants into the navy to be able to afford to live as they join the forces as ratings. The pathway leads north. That\u2019s why all of the mayors, all of the civic leaders, all of the community advocates, and all of the senior business identities have joined a programme called Kia Kaha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe five-pointed star of progress and development is a navigational star, and we have set our course by those five things. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea62d2d0e4994919927c2451e34d9ef2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea62d2d0e4994919927c2451e34d9ef2\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I rise to take a call on this Prime Minister\u2019s statement, and I want to begin with a quote. The back of this quote is in response, actually, to the Hon Shane Jones, by Walter Cronkite: \u201CFreedom of the press is not just important to democracy, it is democracy.\u201D My second quote is actually by our Prime Minister: \u201CAround the world, democratic values and institutions are under threat in a way that many of us \u2026 expected to see in our lifetimes.\u201D I think it is appalling, and it is one of the first times in my parliamentary career that I am ashamed of this Parliament\u2014we are aware of covert photos being taken of journalists, and it is appalling that the Prime Minister will not actually call her Deputy Prime Minister into line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI would acknowledge that we are about to celebrate 150 years of our press gallery, and my point to the Parliament would be: if we do not stand up for some of those press at a time like this, where, at the highest level, that can be considered intimidation, then who will? On this side of the House, we do stand for freedom of the press. My plea to the Prime Minister is to say something, do something on this issue, do it for a country that is proud of our democratic record, that gave women the right to vote\u2014first in the world. And, actually, freedom of the press does matter, Shane Jones, and we will stand up for freedom of the press on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Prime Minister a lot of hype, and in fact I want to respond to the Hon Grant Robertson\u2019s comments around overhype and mirages. Well, if we look at every single area of this Government, there is hype and mirages. If we take our economy, again, we saw the Prime Minister trying to rewrite history. We were a Government that left the country in surplus. We dealt with the global financial recession, we dealt with the Canterbury earthquakes, and we left the country in surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EAnd then we look at our economic indicators. And you know what, Grant Robertson? They do matter. They matter in the stories that we hear across this side of the House, in the stories of those people in South Auckland who are paying more for their fuel as a result of the Government\u2019s fuel tax. They matter in the stories of other people across New Zealand whose median rents have gone up, some commentators estimate, by an average of $55. They matter when we hear from the chair of ACC today, who has said that we have major increases in levies coming. Again, under a National Government, cost of living was lower because we managed to keep those accounts in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThey matter when we talk about the area of infrastructure. This is a Government that manages to put up a whole lot of mirages. The reality is, under our Government, we saw Waterview, we saw Victoria Park Tunnel, we saw the City Rail Link (CRL) announced. This is a Government where we\u2019ve got CRL 15 months delayed, we\u2019ve had roads cancelled, and then they have the nerve\u2014they have the nerve\u2014two years later to try and announce a $12 billion infrastructure package of which a range of things and a range of communities have been basically postponed for two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThis is a Government, in the area of housing, that, again, put up a mirage of 100,000 houses to be built via KiwiBuild. How many were delivered? About 300. So, again, it\u2019s a Government that talks massive but breaks a whole lot of promises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go to the area of education. We were a Government that increased our education budget every single year that we were in office. This is a Government that now talks about the fact that under the last Government, there were overcrowded schools. That is correct. But what we saw on the front page of the New Zealand Herald the other day was 700 schools over capacity. So for a Government gifted the best opportunities of a generation, we have seen overcrowding in classrooms. And again, what are we seeing? We\u2019re seeing shifts and we\u2019re seeing drops in educational achievement. We\u2019re also seeing huge promises not delivered in education. There are over 50 promises not delivered in education. Where are the free devices, Chris Hipkins? Where is the 100 percent qualified ratio in early childhood? Where is career advice for every child? Again, the litany of broken promises continues despite all of the gifts of a generation that were left this Government by the last National Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn the area of health, in the area of public services, one of the reasons why it is hard to get a picture to cut through those mirages on this side of the House is because this Government scrapped the Better Public Service targets. But here are some figures in health that I\u2019m sure every New Zealander would want to know. What do we know? In the last eight months, we\u2019ve got $230 million more in deficits. What do we know? We know that there\u2019s 6,000 less elective surgeries happening in New Zealand compared to the last year. What do we know in the infrastructure and transport area? Well, again, the Hon Simon Bridges listed a litany of projects that were promised but that are now not being delivered as a result of this Government. We haven\u2019t even got on to the Prime Minister\u2019s audacious promise in Auckland around light rail, because we know that that project hasn\u2019t actually even started. Again, it\u2019s another flagship promise that has completely been broken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWhat do we know in other areas? Well, what we know is that this is a Government with very low standards around its Ministers. And I do want to acknowledge that if you look under Prime Minister Ardern\u2019s leadership, not only have we seen ministerial resignations but we saw a major resignation around the area of open Government. We\u2019ve also seen the Labour Party sex scandal. And now we have seen, as I mentioned before, at the outset of my speech, a new low, an absolutely new low in our Parliament that the Prime Minister\u2014and I\u2019m looking at Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick right now: where are the Greens on the issue of freedom of the press? Where are the Greens? The reality is the Deputy Prime Minister has admitted to being involved in covert photographs of the press. If it had happened on this side of the House, the level of anxiety, the level of speaking up, would have been completely different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo this is a Government that was handed the best conditions of a generation. We were the comeback country. We had taken a country that was staring down a decade of deficits into surplus. We\u2019ve seen huge improvements in a number of areas such as M\u0101ori and Pasifika education achievement. Now, in every major area, we have business confidence tanking. We\u2019ve slipped in terms of our economic performance to being, I think, the seventh worst in terms of the OECD. We\u2019ve seen our health and education indicators going backwards. We\u2019ve seen a litany of broken promises. We\u2019ve seen some extraordinary flagship programmes fall, from KiwiBuild: from 100,000 houses to 300 houses; from light rail: not even started. We\u2019ve seen incompetence at the infrastructure level like never before, and the fact that the journalists are somehow clapping when Labour are turning up, announcing projects that have been delayed for two years is pretty extraordinary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen, in the area of law and order, gang activity like never before. And what do we get from the Prime Minister? A complete lack of leadership around Ministers. What I get from a number of New Zealanders who come up to me is that they say, just like Grant Robertson said at the outset of his speech: they expected there would be additional investments in people, they expected to see less children in poverty, but we know that there\u2019s more. They expected to see less people necessarily in welfare and in hardship. But we know that there\u2019s tens of thousands more. We know, on a number of the major social indicators around our most vulnerable, life is worse under Labour, and we know that as well because our economy is getting worse so we have less opportunities to be able to pay for the kinds of public services that New Zealand needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe needed a Government that was going to show leadership, but in every single area\u2014in the economy, in health, in education, in infrastructure, on the basic issue of freedom of press that you would expect the Labour Government to step up and stand up for our democracy\u2014they were missing in action. And I\u2019ll tell you what, Grant Robertson, that\u2019s what I call a mirage. This is the most overhyped Government in a generation, and National looks forward to taking office in September to lead a Government that will not only improve our economy, improve our public services, will reduce crime, but will ensure that New Zealanders have a better life, and we will also stand up for the freedom of press in our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6eff0673b8c4048bbb66d350cbeb082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6eff0673b8c4048bbb66d350cbeb082\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to say that the last speaker is someone who I admire, because not only has she experienced some personal issues, she\u2019s actually an athlete and someone who I know works very hard. She reflects what many of us across the House bring: the desire to have a better country. We\u2019re here for the right reasons. We may not agree on the way we get to that, but many of us are here because we want our country to be the very best that it can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really heartened by some work that we did earlier this year as a caucus with the Prime Minister when she gave us the opportunity to talk about how we wanted this election campaign\u2014and, therefore, our policies\u2014to roll out. And what she said was she wanted this to be positive. She wanted this election campaign to be a contest of ideas, she wanted us to actually ensure that when we were out there discussing what Labour and this Government had done, that we were being truthful and honest with the people, and that they could make a decision for themselves. And, actually, our people deserve that from us. Our young people demand that from us, and I am really heartened by that. I took that message to be one thing: that we are now encouraged to be the best that we can be, because politics can be pretty dirty\u2014it can be pretty grimy\u2014and, unfortunately, some of that can rub off. But if you come from the place that you hold within yourself some integrity, that you are doing everything you can for your country, then you can rise above a lot of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ENow, what heartens me is, yep, we know that we\u2019ve done a bit of work, but we know the weight of expectation is upon us to do more. And I\u2019m really heartened when I talk to people in my electorate\u2014or when they, unsolicited by me, give me their opinions\u2014because some of them really tell me that with what we are doing, we are on the right track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI want to quote from a couple of emails that I got, and I will call this woman Katie. I didn\u2019t know her before she sent these emails, but I was really impressed by what she had to say. I didn\u2019t ask her for this, but this is what she told me. \u201CI know that going into an election year there will be a lot of \u2026 flying around, so I want to give you a perspective from a beneficiary. Since I met you, my financial and life situation have improved enormously. I no longer want to just die. Life is not always easy, but I have enough money to eat well, I can pay all of my bills, and going to WINZ is no longer a desperately miserable experience, and the winter payments actually help. I can afford school fees. I can buy my daughter anything that she needs\u2014luckily, she likes op shopping\u2014and if there is something we want but don\u2019t desperately need, we can now plan to save for it. I haven\u2019t needed to rely on food parcels or the kindness of others. My mother was close to death before Christmas and I was able to just book a flight and go. She\u2019s now OK. This is a thankyou note. I have many things to be grateful for now. This is because of your Government. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Please extend my thanks to the coalition Government.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s fantastic. She also goes on to say she thinks Phil Twyford is a hero. But that\u2019s another matter. [Interruption] I know. I know. But what I want to say is that out of the mouths of constituents come some pretty honest things. And what really heartens me is that when I\u2019ve been talking to people about the things that we want to do, the things that we\u2019ve done already, they\u2019re actually encouraging us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EI want to talk about one school in my electorate that\u2019s actually going to benefit from the infrastructure package that we\u2019re putting out to the tune of $260,000, and that\u2019s Banks Avenue\u2014one of the schools that, post-earthquakes, is going to have to sustain a rebuild. I\u2019ve gone to that school every year, a couple of times every year, to talk to them about, you know, the issues and stuff. In Opposition we tried to support them to get some extra help from that Government. The extra help we were looking for was they were given p\u016Btea to rebuild their school. That p\u016Btea was supposed to last them for a period of time while they were in situ on their current site to rebuild on to their new site. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EWhile they were in situ on their old site, they had maintenance issues that they had to actually pay for from that p\u016Btea that the National Government gave them for the rebuild. So year on year, their maintenance costs actually ate away at the money that they were going to be able to use for their rebuild. So when this was announced, that they were actually\u2014from us\u2014getting $260,000 for their maintenance, they went \u201CThank you. You\u2019ve listened.\u201D That\u2019s one school in a whole country of schools that\u2019s going to benefit because we listened to them about what their needs were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ENow, Banks Ave is a very unique school, because a lot of the children were impacted by the earthquakes and they also asked National in Government to support them with some extra support for those children\u2019s needs; also not forthcoming from that Government. What do they have now? They have Mana Ake. They have Mana Ake workers going in there to support children who\u2019ve got significant behavioural issues because of the trauma they\u2019ve experienced from the earthquake. That makes me enormously proud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re small things: things like families not having to pay for school donations, things like elderly people saying in wintertime, \u201CIt\u2019s fantastic that we\u2019ve got the winter payment.\u201D, and actually not knowing that that\u2019s going to happen every single winter\u2014every single winter. Those things, they may be small\u2014we\u2019re on a journey\u2014but people are actually starting to resonate that we are delivering to them. But we have so much more to do. There\u2019s so much more I could talk about. You know, just as I was sitting here, I was watching a lovely clip over the shoulder of my colleague there of his son enjoying an ice block, I think, at home, and I think about what it is that we want to leave for our country, and that\u2019s definitely about how we support our children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve done some things. We\u2019ve increased the amount of time that mamas and papas can stay at home. You know, paid parental leave is a really important aspect to how we ensure that we bond well with our children. But going past that, what do we want for our kids? We want our kids to be healthy and well. We want to make sure that they\u2019ve got access to good healthcare; that when they get unwell\u2014and unfortunately they do\u2014cost is not a barrier; that if they have serious illness they can go to a hospital that doesn\u2019t have stuff running down the walls; that those hospitals, those facilities, are the very best that they can be for those kids; and, actually, that their families and their parents are supported to be the best that they can be too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve got a real problem in this country and it\u2019s called family violence. I\u2019m enormously proud of how much money we have put into supporting services. But we have got so much more to do. Wh\u0101nau resilience\u2014supporting families to identify the issues and work on them so that they can be the best parents for their kids. That\u2019s extraordinary stuff, and that will be a game-changer in years to come. Supporting kids to get over the trauma they experience in homes where violence is present; supporting kids to get over the trauma they experience when they have to live through several years of natural disaster. That\u2019s game-changing stuff. That\u2019s the stuff that brings some of us to this House, and makes me extraordinarily proud of our Prime Minister when she says we are going to be positive. This campaign is going to be a contest of ideas. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002227659b9556514e05bac65b6e0e9fc5d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227659b9556514e05bac65b6e0e9fc5d0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I follow my colleague, who talked about the Prime Minister\u2019s kind of pledge about it being a positive campaign. Prime Minister Ardern also talked about the fact that this was going to be the most open and transparent Government that had ever been, that last year was going to be the year of delivery, and that this year was going to be about truth and honesty. Well, how quickly things change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOne of the things that people rely on from their Prime Minister is a Prime Minister who demands\u2014actually, the Cabinet Manual states it, so it\u2019s not about demanding it, it\u2019s just about delivering it\u2014standards of Ministers in their Cabinet. That doesn\u2019t say Ministers of the same political party in their Cabinet; it says Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s somewhat fascinating to see\u2014when we have pretty much exactly the same situation play out as did in 2008\u2014a Minister in Cabinet not standing down, not offering to stand down, or not being stood down by the Prime Minister, and two very nasty issues occurring related to ministerial behaviour. It\u2019s not about are you the leader of a political party; it\u2019s a Minister in Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister\u2019s job is to uphold the standards, to uphold the standards that the New Zealand public expect of their Cabinet. As my colleague Nikki Kaye spoke about before, a very new low in this place last week, and that was by the Deputy Prime Minister admitting to the media that he was involved in the covert surveillance of journalists. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbdbdd16a0440238794c9e20f83d1fe\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223da2f21546c1450b94288371faa32cad\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if that\u2019s what the Prime Minister was talking about when it was about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f5fadefbbe145a88110ac6e7e477f45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That is not an acceptable interjection. The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297fbc80884484c669c114cedaa4c2dec\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f7b251d4ea426e86a39dbfb7017043\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: So, if that\u2019s the standard, if that\u2019s what the Prime Minister wants New Zealanders to think of when she talks about the most open and transparent Government, when she talks about truth and honesty, and when she talked about last year as the year of delivery, well, I\u2019m sad to say it\u2019s a pretty low bar, because at the end of the day, New Zealanders want a Government who delivers. Actually, they want a Prime Minister who isn\u2019t just full of hot air. At the end of the day, she leads a team. She is accountable for every single Minister in her Cabinet, not just the ones she wants to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at some of the things that she said in her statement, because this is, of course, the debate on the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, so I\u2019m going to touch on a few.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EChild poverty\u2014she talked about cost pressures for families, about new jobs that have been created, about the so-called transformation of the welfare system, and about things like Mana in Mahi, which she was an enormously proud of. Well, the reality is talk is cheap\u2014talk is cheap. At the end of the day, New Zealanders want to know that the members of Parliament in this place\u2014and I do agree with the speaker who resumed her seat before me\u2014New Zealanders want to know that the people in this place are doing their damnedest to improve their quality of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo child poverty was meant to be the top priority for Jacinda Ardern, and she was going to solve it. Well, guess what! We\u2019ve got 15,000 more children living in benefit-dependent homes. We know that 60 percent of children who live in hardship come from benefit-dependent homes. Seven of the nine indicators of poverty have gone up, so on that one area alone, the Prime Minister is not delivering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EActually, if you think about\u2014as many of my colleagues do, and we discuss it on a regular basis\u2014you know, supporting the most vulnerable, what does it come down to? Can they afford their everyday costs, whether it\u2019s housing, whether it\u2019s petrol, whether it\u2019s filling the supermarket basket and making sure that they\u2019ve got food at home? Well, the reality is we now have a record number of Kiwis who are seeking hardship assistance\u2014half a billion dollars more in assistance. So this isn\u2019t a country where New Zealanders are doing it well. They\u2019re not doing it better than they were two years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo if, as the member opposite said before, this is a Prime Minister who\u2019s talking truth and honesty, can we at least get some honesty around the number of Kiwis who are doing it tougher under this Government than they were two years ago? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe housing crisis, as they often wanted to talk about. Social housing register: three times as many people on the social housing register\u2014three times as many people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af32cc690384cc1b47d8d972dbb8455\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61f78b0aa8a441d9fc1330e9437c6c2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: So it\u2019s really unfortunate that the member opposite isn\u2019t interested, because at the end of the day, when this Government came in, the number of people who were on jobseeker support, or the dole\u2014oh, that\u2019s right, we\u2019re not allowed to call it the \u201Cdole\u201D in here, according to the Minister for Social Development, even though truth and honesty, that\u2019s what the Prime Minister calls it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aebca6ac22f4977a0f6c37b81b299c5\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not the \u201Cdole\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcc66cb4ffd148f0afd1e459066bbd79\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go again. They don\u2019t want to be held accountable for the 27,000 more New Zealanders that get the dole. Remind the Prime Minister\u2014remind the Prime Minister. But 27,000 more New Zealanders have to front up to Work and Income because there aren\u2019t the jobs available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOh, and the Prime Minister was bragging about the fact that there were a large number of jobs that have been created. What was that number? This is the world of truth and honesty. Eighty-seven thousand; 4,000 a month, compared to 10,000 a month under National\u20144,000 a month. So why is it\u2014oh, now the members opposite have gone quiet, because at the end of the day, every single one of those 27,000 people don\u2019t have the same opportunities because they\u2019re not in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EOh, and what was the big flagship employment programme? Mana in Mahi. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern launched it and said 4,000 people in the next year. Then it became 2,000. Then it became 2,000 in four years. So it\u2019s a bit like the KiwiBuild of employment initiatives, where I think there\u2019s been about 300 people so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWhat members opposite fail to realise, when you fail to deliver for the most vulnerable New Zealanders, guess what! It\u2019s the children in those households that are the most affected. So when we say 15,000 more children in benefit-dependent homes, they clearly don\u2019t care about it. So instead, they talk about this transformation of the welfare State. Where is that transformation, Associate Minister for Social Development? Where is the transformation of the welfare State? This is a campaign of truth and honesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThree out of 42 recommendations. So, you know, a group of very hard-working New Zealanders that participated in that advisory group\u2014one of the 300 working groups, by the way\u2014put a huge amount of effort into making recommendations, and the Government accepted three. So it ain\u2019t going to change any time soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo, unfortunately, we have more New Zealanders who are stuck in poverty because they can\u2019t get a job. These are New Zealanders that, you know, they want to work, but, actually, when they go into Work and Income, because there\u2019s all these new case managers, they can go for three months with not one conversation with someone from Work and Income about getting a job. That is disgraceful\u2014that is absolutely disgraceful. So the caseworkers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0d36065b5b44a2848ef55234f9b5be\u0022\u003EHon Poto Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Prove it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227313af8c011243f6b8148363aac81fe4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, it\u2019s in the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s own statistics and answers in terms of employment engagements. It\u2019s called a written parliamentary question. If that member opposite, who is a Minister, Associate Minister for Social Development, doesn\u2019t believe the written parliamentary questions that her own department is providing, how is that a campaign of truth and honesty? I ask you that. How is this a campaign of truth and honesty if the Minister herself doesn\u2019t have confidence in the answers that are given to members opposite whose job it is to hold the Government to account? Oh, but, actually, we\u2019re not allowed to ask questions about the 27,000 extra people who now have to ask for support because they can\u2019t get a job\u2014they can\u2019t get a job; 27,000 more people. I\u2019m particularly interested in young people who don\u2019t have those opportunities: 7,000 more people under the age of 25\u20147,000. That\u2019s a crime. That is a crime of lost opportunity. National knows what you need to create jobs, give people opportunities, and give them the ability to be in the driver\u2019s seat of their own lives, making their own choices, looking after their\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e573083d0df340c199c9b65c7d18cc00\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002218d902e200b641c39e924938e1b859bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218d902e200b641c39e924938e1b859bf\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. We accept the politics that we think we deserve, and it\u2019s becoming kind of obvious that it\u2019s election year. As somebody inside this House, I must say that I can absolutely empathise with members of the public who see the kind of argy-bargy that goes on in this place and decide to turn away. In fact, oftentimes when we\u2019re sat in here and we look up at the public gallery and we look at the faces of young people, school children, it becomes immediately obvious that the behaviour that transpires here would not be acceptable in classrooms across the country. So it, therefore, feels somewhat quite far removed from the supposed solutions that we in this House are empowered to create.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis is a House of Representatives. I\u2019m very earnest and talk about this all time, but I think it is important that we do reflect on the fact that all of the 120 seats in this place are a representation of the votes of New Zealanders. Of a possible more than 3.2 million New Zealanders, only 2.6 million of those New Zealanders decided to vote in 2017. Those more than half a million New Zealanders could have changed everything. So I really want to drive home that we accept the politics that we think we deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe Greens believe that all New Zealanders deserve a home\u2014and by that, I don\u2019t just mean four walls and a roof over your head; it is more than just a warm, dry, stable place to rest your head. Home is somewhere where you can put down your roots, where you can create your history. Home is where you can walk or cycle through the streets in safety any time of the day because you know your neighbours, because everybody has enough to get by, and because there is an unashamedly proud, humble, and shared sense of community. Home is enough shared kai for everyone, a space to test ideas and to communicate difference of opinion respectfully. Home is where you build opportunities on a solid foundation of belonging. It is where you raise and educate your kids. It is the trees that you point out as have being yay high when you were a kid, that have grown as you have. It is the soundtrack of native birds\u2014our birds that don\u2019t exist anywhere else in the world\u2014that emphasise the beauty of quiet moments. Home is the legacy that we create to hand down to the next generation. Our tamariki and their tamariki are entitled to clean water, to fresh air, to a stable climate, and to locally produced food, as much as they will eventually be entitled to grandma\u2019s earrings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOur home is Aotearoa New Zealand. Our home was founded nearly 160 years ago when tangata whenua signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi, which notably was a rather different document to the Treaty of Waitangi that was put forward by the colonial English. These two very distinct architects had different blueprints in mind for the house that we would build, and we haven\u2019t done a sterling job at reconciling either of those plans in the century and a half since. That fundamental blunder has meant a number of New Zealanders\u2014largely tangata whenua M\u0101ori\u2014weren\u2019t factored into the design of this House. But the political pendulum has swung between building a longer table and removing seats in a punitive game of musical chairs. We are a richer country than we have ever been, but that wealth and access to it is more unequal than ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhen New Zealanders turn to opt out of the political scenarios that are unfolding before their very eyes, they give this silly business\u2014which turns into unequal access and opportunities within our home\u2014permission to continue. As Margaret Mead put it, \u201CNever doubt a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; [because] indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019m incredibly proud of the work that our small but mighty caucus of eight Green MPs of 120 in this place have achieved. Not everyone yet has the home that the Greens believe all New Zealanders in Aotearoa New Zealand deserve. It is a home worth fighting for. The decision to build it rests in the hands of New Zealanders come this September with the general election. I implore New Zealanders who are unhappy with the status quo to muck in, because they have the opportunity to choose the politics that they deserve. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2ada50e13f54af3b207f7e42478cabc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2ada50e13f54af3b207f7e42478cabc\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. Following my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, I wanted to talk about my reflections on this, the beginning of my ninth year as a representative in this House. I thought back to my maiden speech, and I recalled that one of the major factors that led to me putting my name forward to stand for Parliament, and to come to this place, was an absolute belief that democracy is possible and that this place should be a place that solves problems on behalf of all of our citizens and residents here in Aotearoa New Zealand. It is entirely possible that we can have constructive, meaningful debate that reflects the many shared values and differing interests of all the people who live in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELike many other countries in the world, and as my colleague has pointed out, there is, perhaps, a sense that people are losing faith in their representatives and in the ability of democracy to solve the biggest challenges that we are facing. The reality is that here in Aotearoa New Zealand, like other places, there are barriers to achieving a better future; there are barriers to achieving equality and that fundamental right that, I think we would all agree, all humans have to a warm, healthy, affordable home; to clean water; to sustainably produced healthy, nutritious food; to a future that is not going to be marred by climate chaos that is increasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe could have transport systems that enable us to get around our communities in ways that don\u2019t rely on fossil fuels, that don\u2019t take up so much land, that don\u2019t result in congestion, and that lead to happier, healthier communities. We know this is possible. We\u2019ve seen it happen in many, many other places. Even here in Aotearoa, where we\u2019ve invested in great public transport, people use it; where we have safe, separated cycleways, people use it; where we have had, in the past, investment in State homes, it has made a difference and we have reduced homelessness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, this Government has taken steps to address some of these challenges, but the truth is that we need to go further and faster. The major barriers that I see to us achieving this incredible vision, which, I think, almost all New Zealanders would agree with, are twofold. One is a kind of belief that things are this way because they have to be this way and they couldn\u2019t possibly be different. I see that we\u2019re constantly defending the status quo and that there\u2019s a bit of a fear of change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut the second barrier is much more insidious, and that is that the people who profit from the injustice and the pollution that we have in the status quo are putting money into campaigns to protect their privilege. The thing that helps them most is not just the money and the power that they exert; it\u2019s actually that they perpetuate this belief that things cannot be changed, that these people here in this House are not here to represent the ordinary person, that they don\u2019t have the ability to participate in this system of governance, to make decisions collectively for all of us, and decisions that will benefit all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI believe there\u2019s an alternative. I do. I believe that we can change in a way that is going to lead to a multitude of benefits and we can have much more constructive and productive dialogue in this place. The reality is that this preference towards the status quo, and the people who profit from it, is damaging nature, it\u2019s stealing the future of young people with climate change, and it is leading to an increasingly divided population. Here in Aotearoa and overseas, we can see this happening because people have been marginalised and excluded, they don\u2019t have enough to make ends meet, they can\u2019t respond to the problems that we are facing. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f780868a3e74dc4bd9f95454e063a2e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was my fault. I hit the\u2014take about a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967cae94b8264957a17499133133cc8b\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. So how do we do this? How do we fix this? Well, firstly, we need people to get involved. If you believe that things can be better, if you believe in protecting nature, if you believe in a fair and equal society, get involved in this political system. We need your voice, we need your vote, and we need you to be involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESecondly, we need to work together to solve our collective problems. We have to recognise that those politicians who promise more of what we\u2019ve always had, and who will deliberately set out with attack ads that mislead and breed fear and division in our population, must be ignored. They must lose in the political fight that we\u2019re going to have for the election. We need to say that is not what we want. Don\u2019t give in to fear. We are a community who can work together to solve our problems. Don\u2019t believe those who will tell you that it\u2019s farmers versus urbanites, that it\u2019s younger people versus older people, or that it\u2019s the rich versus the poor. The reality is that too few people benefit from our current system, and together we can change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00220b8e97764ada41038543a30a60bd7be9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b8e97764ada41038543a30a60bd7be9\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Before I begin my speech, I seek the indulgence to be able to just acknowledge the passing away of Tofilau Kerupi Tavita. The reason I acknowledge him is that he put a petition into this House in 2018, and it was in regards to the name of Jesus being removed from the prayer. I just want to acknowledge he has passed away, unfortunately. He was a champion, and when he championed the cause, it wasn\u2019t just from a religious perspective that he had\u2014he\u2019s a Christian man\u2014it was from a principled perspective. I want to acknowledge that, for a number of years, he championed this and asked that others would stand up for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EOn a number of occasions he would talk about the reasons why, because he was questioned that it\u2019s just a name. Some of the replies would come back that\u2014he reminded us that in 1854, on 24 May, when the Parliament was first constituted, actually up in Auckland, not in Wellington at that time, the very first debate was actually about the prayer, and it talked about putting all personal interests aside, talked about the peace and prosperity of this nation, and it ended off \u201Cin Jesus\u2019 name\u201D. And so hence the reasons why he felt that was important as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe conversation was also too\u2014I know the Hon Peeni Henare will know this\u2014that in 1840, when Henry Williams, the missionary, was commissioned to translate Te Tiriti o Waitangi at that time from English to M\u0101ori, and M\u0101ori to English, he referred to the book of Ephesians 2:14-18, in the New Testament, where it talked about the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile being brought down but by the blood of Christ, on the cross of Christ. And so the word \u201Ckawenata\u201D was the word \u201Ccovenant\u201D, and we will hear many times the word \u201Ckawenata\u201D. It\u2019s a covenant relationship; it\u2019s a sacred relationship. And it\u2019s the sacredness about the reasons why he protested, and wanted others to protest, about the name of Jesus being removed from the prayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo, I thank you for allowing me to acknowledge him as champion for that. Because of that, I think that\u2019s also raised a number of issues. When people have said, \u201CSo what will be the hallmark not only of this Government but also too the conversations throughout the election period of time?\u201D And often it will be the word \u201Ccompetence\u201D, but I think it will be the word \u201Cvalues\u201D. What is it that we value most?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI remember being up in Waitangi this year and speaking to some of the kaum\u0101tua, and one of the words they said, the comments they said, was this: \u201CAlfred, there was a time when you could shake the hand of another man, you could look into their eye, and you knew that their word was their bond.\u201D Their word was their bond, and it\u2019s a word called \u201Ctrust\u201D. What we hear out at the moment, and I want to refer to that, is that can we trust not only our politicians but can we trust the current Government? And, from a number of people, what they\u2019re saying to us\u2014and I\u2019ll refer to it because I\u2019ve already started\u2014up at Waitangi, they sort of said, \u201CWell, can we trust this current Government?\u201D There was a lot of unease; there was a lot of talk about the things that had been promised\u2014there are a lot of promises about the fact that this is the largest number of M\u0101ori Ministers in the whole history of the New Zealand Parliament of 165 years. It is something to be celebrated, absolutely. But it\u2019s one thing to get there; it\u2019s another thing to do the business, and again, to shake the hand, look in the eye, and be trusted. Can they be trusted to deliver?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI was asked about the difference that National makes. So what is the difference? You might want to listen up there, Marja Lubeck. The difference is this word: mana motuhake. Mana motuhake means self-determination. In other words, it\u2019s giving power to the people, not power to the State\u2014power to the people. So when we talk about that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288698924086044c4b694b33deba96f95\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Tino rangatiratanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c20e875950b4d4ea439729e59d5f9b6\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014tino rangatiratanga. It has the elements of that, right? It\u2019s power to the people, enforcing the ability for people to choose. Then they said to me, \u201CSo what is the record that National could hold up with?\u201D Well, we had the unveiling of Dame Whina Cooper, who was also too a champion, a person who could be trusted. She was also the president of the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League. But when did that begin? Under a National Government in 1951, in granting $1 million, under Sid Holland, to the league to establish the M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Development Fund. Te W\u0101nanga o Raukawa, Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa\u20141981 and 1993\u2014under a National Government. Why? Because it gives power in the hands of the people\u2014in this case, to M\u0101ori\u2014to make the decision to do what they should do. The establishment of Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho in 1994, the establishment of the M\u0101ori Television Trust, and even funds for the community-based M\u0101ori language initiatives in 1998; this is what you call putting trust in the hands of the people\u2014mana motuhake, tino rangatiratanga\u2014in other words, empowerment to the people. That is not what is being seen in our country today. That is not what is being seen. Why? Because this Government is about a socialist ideology. It\u2019s \u201Cpower to the State\u201D not \u201Cpower to the people\u201D. And for them to keep saying that they are the people\u2019s party, that is not true\u2014that is not true. Why? Because, under this Government and under its history, there have been more things that have been achieved, even if we talk about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about Wh\u0101nau Ora, and the only reason I talk about that is that it was raised with me over there. I have to say\u2014I think the Minister is here today in the House\u2014one of the things they held up was this: the Wh\u0101nau Ora outcomes framework that was developed in 2015. It was a partnership agreement that was agreed above all. Here\u2019s what they said: you might as well throw that away\u2014because, unfortunately, under this coalition Government, they have thrown it away. They\u2019ve decided to do something else, something new. The promises that were made have not been delivered. The $20 million that we said there\u2014and I\u2019m only quoting the people that were there; I\u2019m only quoting the people that were there\u2014there was an unrest because they don\u2019t believe that they can continue to trust a Government that says one thing and does another. This is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThis speech is about the Prime Minister\u2019s speech and the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, but what the Prime Minister has started to hide behind is around some of the issues that I think are critically important, and that\u2019s in regards to the referendum around legalising recreational marijuana. Let\u2019s not confuse it with cannabis. It\u2019s marijuana. That\u2019s what it is, right? I just M\u0101ori-fied it there a bit! It\u2019s marijuana. Whatever you want to call it\u2014weed? Right? The thing is this: this Government has prided itself on saying that they\u2019ve spent $700 million to address the issues of mental health. We just heard Alex Berenson. It\u2019s unfortunate that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick didn\u2019t come there. She would have heard some evidence that tells the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c360df9bc28a414ba66bc8ffad7d5b09\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Research him, though!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022363804783e364f1db92a5e64cb09da2b\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Research it. That\u2019s right. That\u2019s what you should do\u2014Tell Your Children: The Truth About Marijuana, Mental Illness, and Violence. It\u2019s a lie to pretend the fact is that this is all good. The old days of the Woodstock that maybe, I don\u2019t know, the honourable members over there, Phil Twyford and so forth\u2014that Woodstock sort of cannabis; that\u2019s not the sort of cannabis we\u2019re talking about. This is the sort of stuff where the THC levels back then were 12 percent. We\u2019re talking about 80 to 90 percent. This is the sort of drug that, if we unleash it upon our community and our society, it will do more harm than good. I ask the members on the other side: let your conscience speak. Let the voice of the people speak. Let them tell you this: this is bad, this is wrong, this referendum. You can hold your hands\u2014I think that\u2019s a prayer. You keep praying. You keep praying so that you will hear the truth. This is what the fact is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EEvidence shows that there\u2019s a hidden epidemic around violence. The States that have legalised marijuana have shown that it makes a difference. I ask that the members on the other side would have their conscience heard. Let them see the truth. The truth is that this is all wrong. This is all bad. But you\u2019ve sold yourself into the lie\u2014you\u2019ve sold yourself into the lie\u2014and here\u2019s what Alex Berenson said: the THC levels cause psychosis; psychosis causes violence. If we allow this referendum to go through, if we sugar-coat it to make it say it\u2019s going to be great, that there\u2019s going to be less people going into prison, less people going to courts, that it\u2019s good for the young people, that\u2019s a lie. We should reveal it for what it is\u2014we should reveal it for what it is. It\u2019s all bad for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister was also wanting to hide behind what\u2019s about to be unleashed\u2014a very, very important bill which I think is significant to this nation, and that is the abortion law reform bill. I know it\u2019s a conscience bill. There are different views in this House, but that cannot be hidden. I want to speak for those that are out there. Over 25,000 submissions were made, and 96 percent opposed this bill. Why? Because it is unsafe\u2014it is unsafe. So I again ask those on the other side to be wary, be concerned, and seek the evidence that will tell you what the truth is. It\u2019s not about a moral situation. It\u2019s not about a moral view. It\u2019s about the evidence of whether it\u2019s going to be safe in our country. There will be many others\u2014this cannot be hidden\u2014and I\u2019ll be one of those who\u2019ll be speaking out against this, and I hope that others will continue to stand and say that this is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI know that there is a Supplementary Order Paper that\u2019s coming, in the name of Darroch Ball, which says that there should be a referendum. I hope there is. I hope that he will push hard enough, because I know that those who will vote for this bill will find that this liberalisation will cause more harm to those who have a disability, those who are discriminated against, and those who are vulnerable. This Prime Minister can no longer stand in this House and around this country and say that she stands for those who are vulnerable, for those children, because what she\u2019s allowing to happen through the legalising of recreational marijuana, the abortion law reforms\u2014these things are not good. Why? Because when you shake the hand of another person and look them in the eye, they should be able to say that they trust each other. Your word is your bond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00221707827717cc4523afc0149d6f11bede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221707827717cc4523afc0149d6f11bede\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Let the people have their say. That\u2019s what we just heard from the last speaker: let the people have their say. And did they have their say at the last election? Yes, they did. And that is why that speaker is over there and that is why we are over here. And that\u2019s why the people of New Zealand are enjoying an economy that has 2.7 percent growth\u2014more growth than the USA, more growth than Australia, more growth than Canada, and more growth than Japan\u2014and more than many other OECD countries. And what does that side have to say about it? They have a whinge. They are whingers. They\u2019ve been whingers from the day after the election and they are whingers now. Nothing has changed\u2014negative Nats. And how\u2019s that working for them? The best they can come up with is a 10-minute sermon on things that people don\u2019t care about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThey have an opportunity to have to speak about the Prime Minister\u2019s statement. Here it is\u2014pages of what this Government is doing and what this Government\u2019s vision is for this country. And what have they been doing today? Whingeing\u2014whingeing. They have been pretending that New Zealanders do not remember the nine years that they were in Government. They are pretending\u2014when you look at the likes of Nikki Kaye, who stood up today and talked about education and made it sound like they were the same saviours of our students, despite the fact that there were 214 overcrowded schools under their Government and there were nearly 500 classes at risk of being overcrowded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThey are not the saviours of education. They are the threat to education and the facts back it up. Compare their record to the record of this Government here\u2014this Government that has been in for 2\u00BD years and has built 726 new classrooms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225581b14e72a342e29218f7ca39617344\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: 726?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eda66d7287c4c73a2b8c40238f551e7\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, 726. So compare that with overcrowded classrooms and students and schoolchildren learning in libraries and learning in gymnasiums. I\u2019ve lost count of the number of schools that I have visited in Wairarapa, and they\u2019ve shown me what was their library but is now their new-entrants class because the previous Government did not invest in education. I am proud to be part of a Government that values education and has a fully funded plan for expansion and for catering for the expansion of population. Fully funded\u2014isn\u2019t that an important word, or phrase, I should say: fully funded. We\u2019ve heard a lot of talk about what they would have done and what they could have done if they\u2019d got in. They said they\u2019d do a lot, but they didn\u2019t back it up by funding it. And they accuse us of empty promises. What is the point of saying you\u2019re going to do something if you don\u2019t back it up with funding? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe hear a similar theme under health. We have heard reports of sewage running down the walls in our largest hospital in the country. And they stand there and claim that they were the Government of health. What a load of rot. There was $2.3 billion worth of funding stripped from the health budget in real terms. They claim that they funded health. What a load of rubbish. They say that they funded it every year, more and more and more. Yet why did we as a Government inherit a situation where people were screaming out for health treatment? The reality was that they were all rhetoric.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAnd now, instead of standing here and offering solutions to the big challenges that we face in this country\u2014because, of course, waiting lists didn\u2019t grow in two years. All the challenges that we\u2019re facing and addressing as this Government are the effect of the previous nine years of Government. And what do they do? They have a whinge. This is despite the fact that 1,500 nurses have been funded in 2\u00BD years of this Government. Six hundred doctors have been funded in 2\u00BD years. What happened in nine years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d0b8db2fc984677a2f5e03f3a08caf9\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222956e194d8314e20ba1e480b3f499411\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good answer\u2014nothing. And the same can be said for housing. Here we are in a situation where there are thousands of people on waiting lists all around the country. This is not a new phenomenon. Yet under this Government, we have built more State houses than we\u2019ve seen in generations. How do we compare this to the previous record of the previous Government? We built them. They sell them. They sold State houses. And then they have the gall to stand up and criticise this Government for not doing anything for the homeless. What a cheek. If that previous Government built houses at the same rate that this Government is, we would not have a housing crisis. That is a fact. And the fact is also that they are sitting there and looking at their papers and their laptops, not saying anything because they know it\u2019s the truth. They know that they refused for nine years to accept that there was a housing crisis, believing that the market would sort it out. Well, it\u2019s because of this belief\u2014this belief in the trickle-down, which was debunked generations ago\u2014that we\u2019re facing the issue that we\u2019ve got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, I mentioned the economy earlier. We have growth rates that would be the envy of many OECD countries. We have 4 percent unemployment\u2014the lowest rate in over a decade. And what do they do? They whinge. They keep whinging because, of course, their plan is better\u2014if you talk to them. What a load of rubbish. What did their plan deliver us in terms of employment? Where was their scheme, like Mana in Mahi, that was going to get people off the dole and into apprenticeships? If they have the gall to say that they are the party of apprenticeships, I have a question: when we had the largest rebuild in the country after the Christchurch earthquake, where were the Government-sponsored schemes to ensure that the people working on those rebuilds got apprenticeships? None. Nothing\u2014because the market would have sorted it out. There was a prime opportunity for them to say to these large companies that took on Government contracts, \u201CYep, good as gold. You do the building that we need you to do. But here\u2019s an idea. How about for every three or four migrant workers that you bring in to rebuild Christchurch, you just take on an apprentice?\u201D It\u2019s not much to ask. Nothing\u2014and it put us back for years. This Government is doing something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhat is their solution? The promise of tax cuts\u2014the promise of tax cuts. We\u2019ve been here before. Here they were, throughout the last year, saying we should have done tax cuts. They said, \u201CLast election, if we got elected, we would\u2019ve cut taxes.\u201D And here we are again. Yet they were also saying, when we were in negotiation with the teachers, \u201CWe would\u2019ve cut taxes. Oh, but we would have paid you more. We would have cut taxes. We would have paid the nurses more. We\u2019re going to cut taxes. We\u2019re going to spend more than Labour, National, New Zealand First, and the Greens on roading.\u201D What a joke. You can\u2019t have it both ways. That\u2019s what I\u2019d put to them. You can\u2019t promise tax cuts and also promise to spend more, unless you cut services. So what are they going to cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e326835d81041c39a856dbdfdbd9f84\u0022\u003EHon Poto Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What services are they cutting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234ef76f264cf4544aa07a44cd7f93ba7\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t know. Simon Bridges, the leader of the National Party, stood up there, under much fanfare, and said that he was going to cut taxes. Righto, good as gold. The next question that the media asked was \u201CWhat are you going to cut?\u201D \u201COh, dunno. Haven\u2019t really thought that through.\u201D That\u2019s in the next announcement. Righto. So, all right; they\u2019ve sort of talked about the Provincial Growth Fund. They\u2019ve called that a slush fund. So are they going to cut that? Perhaps they are. Perhaps they are going to go around the Wairarapa electorate and say they\u2019ll cut the $950,000 put towards the youth in education and employment\u2014things like that. Perhaps they\u2019re going to say that the money we put in to make sure that 6,000 fewer trucks travel over the Remutaka hill to Wellington carrying logs will be cut\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s not going to go on rail because that\u2019s the Provincial Growth Fund and that\u2019s a slush fund, and we\u2019re going to cut that.\u201D Are they going to go around the Wairarapa electorate and say that the dark sky reserve can get their money taken off them? The Wairarapa primary sector skills development scheme\u2014their money\u2019s gone. What about the $400,000 dollars put into the Dannevirke rail hub, or the upgrade of the Route 52? See you later\u2014and all to pay for $20 a week tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf you think I\u2019m pulling numbers out of the sky, I do wonder why their spokesperson on finance went on to Radio New Zealand and talked about the figure of 20 bucks and then swiftly back-pedalled. He said 20 bucks, and then he said, \u201COh, woops. Uh\u2014oh, shivers. No, no\u2014I didn\u2019t actually mean 20 bucks.\u201D So what is it, a couple of bucks? Where\u2019s the detail? They\u2019re promising a lot and delivering nothing. I would like to see\u2014I would like to see\u2014them go to their supposed support base in Wairarapa and say, \u201CIn order to give you guys a $20 a week tax cut, we\u2019re going to take away the $7.11 million that this Government has put into the water scheme.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThey say that they are the Government for farmers, yet I\u2019d put this to you: on page 6 and 7 on the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, she dedicates to farming, agriculture, and rural communities. Here\u2019s a question for you: how many times did Simon Bridges, the leader of the National Party, mention rural communities, regional economies, or farmers? None\u2014not once. He stands up there and screams at this Government about non-delivery for the regions. The Prime Minister dedicates two pages of her statement to them, we have numerous examples of this Government investing in regional economies, and they stand there and don\u2019t even mention it. Yet again, that side of the House is taking rural economies and rural people for granted. We are the Government that is delivering for rural economies. We are the Government that is investing to make sure that people have real jobs with decent conditions on the back of a strong economy that is the envy of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m proud to stand up here in support of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement. I\u2019d rather be a winner than a whinger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002267352f4e17054c698405026544fd485b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267352f4e17054c698405026544fd485b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b7b795cfe44c4539aefc9b8497d1af2d\u0022\u003EEducation (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002256145c95682f41e08d9b4e351550847e\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022083fe07c1a944731a400cf4c4f1957c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022083fe07c1a944731a400cf4c4f1957c5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EToday is a very big day for vocational education and training in New Zealand. Today is the day we start to bring our vocational education and training systems back together, where we create a unified nationally consistent system of vocational education and training that will meet the needs of New Zealanders. It will meet the needs of New Zealand employers. It will ensure that we can plug the very serious skill shortages that we have in New Zealand and that we can rise to the challenges of the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis bill is about creating a new system that\u2019s easy to understand, that\u2019s easy to navigate, that\u2019s responsive to the needs of learners and employers, and that\u2019s flexible enough to keep changing and evolving as the needs of New Zealanders continue to change and evolve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWe want to ensure that every New Zealander, regardless of where they are, has access to the education and training and skill development opportunities that they need to thrive in the workplace and that they need to thrive in their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is important that we take a long-term perspective when we are considering these matters. The bill has designed a new system that will ensure the long-term skill needs of the country are identified and are planned for. This bill takes into consideration the significantly changing nature of work, both here and around the world, and it responds to the fact that many current employees\u2014increasing numbers of employees\u2014are going to need access to upskilling opportunities and retraining opportunities throughout their working lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ETo touch on the main things that this bill does: first, it establishes workforce development councils that will give industry greater leadership across vocational education and training. Workforce development councils will replace existing industry training organisations (ITOs). They will pick up the ITOs\u2019 standard-setting role, but the key difference is that standard-setting role won\u2019t be limited only to on-the-job training but will apply to off-the-job training as well. One of the persistent concerns that we have heard from industry\u2014and it wouldn\u2019t be just our Government; it would be every Government over the last 20 or 30 years\u2014is that businesses are not satisfied that the training that\u2019s delivered off the job is meeting the needs that they have on the job. This bill, through the establishment of workforce development councils, puts industry and employers in the driving seat of determining what their skill needs are and ensuring that the system delivers them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt ensures a much more comprehensive and robust and viable and strong network of training delivery up and down the country, both on the job and off the job, by bringing together the 16 existing institutes of technology and polytechnics and the supporting on-job training functions of industry training organisations. New Zealand has been unique in the world in trying to treat those things as two completely separate systems. Most other systems have a very strong connection between the training that\u2019s delivered off the job and the training that\u2019s delivered on the job, and that is something that we are seeking to re-establish through these reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill establishes a new regulatory framework for vocational education and training and has transition measures in place that start from 1 April, when this bill comes into force. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to focus on something that hasn\u2019t been focused on much in this debate, and I\u2019m going to focus on it because it answers many of the questions and concerns that members and others have raised, and that is in Schedule 3 the bill inserts a new charter into the law for the New Zealand Institute of Skills and Technology (NZIST). The NZIST\u2014which is the working name\u2014is the organisation that brings together our polytechs and the supporting functions from the existing ITOs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe charter sets out what that institution must do and how it must operate. For example, it requires the organisation to offer in each region a mix of education and training, including on-the-job, face-to-face, and distance learning, that\u2019s accessible to the learners of that region and that meets the needs of learners, industries, and communities. This bill is about ensuring that regions get access to the education and the training that they need. It requires them to operate in a manner that ensures that its regional representatives are empowered to make decisions about delivery and the operations that are informed by local relationships and to make decisions to meet the needs of their communities. The talk that this is taking power away from the regions is simply not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe bill requires in the charter for the NZIST to ensure that international learners are attracted to train and study in the regions throughout New Zealand. This is actually a stronger provision than what we have now, where the bulk of our international students are attracted into Auckland. This bill changes the law, and it requires the network of polytechs, the NZIST, to ensure that they are going other places in the country so that the regions also get their share of international students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt requires them to ensure that there\u2019s collaboration across the national network. It requires them to maintain a high-quality coherent network of infrastructure that meets regional skill needs. So this idea that somehow regions are going to be asset stripped is wrong. The charter protects against that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt says that the NZIST must operate in a way that allows it to empower students and staff on academic, non-academic, and wellbeing matters and matters relating to the organisation\u2019s practices and services. This is about ensuring that those who are affected by these reforms are empowered by the reforms. It requires them to develop meaningful partnerships, including with M\u0101ori and Pacific communities, with small employers\u2014that\u2019s in the law: small employers; they\u2019ve got to have relationships with small employers\u2014with local government, with iwi, with hap\u016B, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt ensures that the organisation is expanding industry training, on-job training, into smaller employers, where we know that they want to train but they currently don\u2019t feel they get enough support to train. By bringing a more supportive network together, we can give smaller employers more support to take on apprentices and industry trainees, and that is something that they have been asking for for some time, and we are going to deliver it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt requires them to align education and training delivery to support the unique social and economic goals of local communities. This is about making sure that what\u2019s being delivered is responsive to local communities, because, despite the best efforts of those involved in the sector at the moment, that hasn\u2019t always been the case. You don\u2019t have to visit too many chambers of commerce or industry or business groups to know that. Businesses are crying out for change, and the Government is delivering that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EInclusivity and equity are core principles for the NZIST. Again, that\u2019s set out in the charter. Equitable access to learning opportunities for all learners\u2014again, it\u2019s set out in the charter. Culturally responsive practices\u2014it\u2019s set out in the charter. A collaborative working relationship with schools, w\u0101nanga, and other tertiary education organisations\u2014again, it is set out in the charter. But I want to focus particularly on one aspect that is so often missed when we\u2019re talking about this, and that is the importance of the new system ensuring seamless transitions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAt the moment, if someone is engaged in off-the-job training through a polytech or an institute of technology and they get a job in that field, they often find they lose the recognition of the learning that they have already done because they don\u2019t complete the qualificational programme that they were enrolled in, and often those providers then get penalised for that through the funding system. The system has to work around people\u2019s lives. People will move in and out of training that\u2019s happening on the job and training that\u2019s happening off the job. That\u2019s the nature of the current labour market, and the education and training system has to move seamlessly around that and adapt and evolve to that. The charter ensures that will happen. That can\u2019t happen at the moment, because the on-job training system and the off-the-job training system are treated as if they are completely separate when, fundamentally, they are not. They are delivering the skills that are needed in the workplace, and they have to operate hand in glove. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to thank all those who are involved in the sector for their goodwill towards these reforms. The changes are only just starting. This change journey, as it gets under way, will gather a head of steam, and I want to particularly acknowledge many of those who were initially opposed to the reforms and who are now committed to making them happen and making them a reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThis Government is absolutely committed to putting trade training, and vocational education and training back on the map. This bill is a huge leap forward from where we have been. It complements the work we are doing to encourage more young New Zealanders into trades and vocational education and training, to turn around the decline in that area that we have seen over the last decade, to ensure that businesses have access to the skilled workers that we know that they need to thrive, and to ensure that those workers have the skills that they need to thrive in the workplace, to earn good, healthy incomes, and to have a high standard of living. These reforms are going to deliver those things. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022873f6f3c40534822b3899454ba1f75b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022873f6f3c40534822b3899454ba1f75b6\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise today to lead the National Party opposition to this bill, a bill that heralds the biggest upheaval of the largest number of public entities in the last 30 years, and a bill that I believe and that we believe will irreparably damage the polytechnic sector, industry training, and regional communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIn this contribution, I will speak to three parts. In the first, who says these reforms will fail, and what is the independent analysis; in the second part, what does failure look like; and in the third part, I have a proposal for Tracey Martin and New Zealand First. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ETo the first part, then: who says these reforms will fail? I have four independent Government entities that I\u2019ll draw information from who all say these reforms will fail. First of all, the Tertiary Education Commission (TEC) and the programme business case. Here is what their view and their summary, the Minister of Education\u2019s own department, his own people\u2014here\u2019s what they say about the risks of these reforms. The risk of workforce disruption is \u201CAlmost certain\u201D. The risk of participation in vocational education dropping is \u201CAlmost certain\u201D. The risk that the needs of industry and employers are not being met is \u201Calmost certain\u201D. The risk that the needs of the regions are not met is \u201CAlmost certain\u201D. Finally, and here\u2019s the most damning part, the likelihood that the new model does not achieve the desired outcomes is \u201CLikely\u201D, and the impact of all of these is \u201CExtreme\u201D\u2014the Tertiary Education Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EAt select committee last week, the chief executive of the Tertiary Education Commission said that they had advised the Minister not to proceed with the reforms initially. I think that\u2019s a damning indictment of these reforms as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe second body I\u2019d point to is the Ministry of Education (MOE) and the TEC through their regulatory impact assessment, and they assessed the likelihood of several attributes around these reforms. They said that the likelihood of achieving cost efficiencies was \u201CLow\u201D, the likelihood of achieving productivity gains was \u201CLow\u201D, the likelihood of achieving a stronger voice was \u201CLow\u201D\u2014this is the regulatory impact assessment from the MOE and TEC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe third independent body is Treasury, who led a quality assurance panel who also assessed the reforms and assessed the regulatory impact assessment (RIA). Here is their verbatim quote\u2014their assessment\u2014of the regulatory impact assessment: \u201Cthe Panel does not find the RIA fully convincing \u2026 The costs are subject to some uncertainty and the monetised value of the benefits appear highly indicative.\u201D\u2014the third body saying that these reforms will fail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe Auditor-General is the fourth independent assessor saying that this will not succeed. They also confirm that this is the largest change to public organisations, and here\u2019s what they say. They have \u201Cconcerns about the timetable for the reforms.\u201D, and it is not clear how non-vocational education delivery will become more sustainable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EFour independent entities are all saying that these reforms will fail. Our team have looked at this, and many who have been in the political domain for many years have not seen such a damning report of a proposed programme as these reforms are putting up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI will turn to the second part of my discussion, and that is: what will failure look like\u2014when these reforms fail, what does that look like? Well, what it looks like, first of all, is that industry training will be less robust, with less participants. Small industry training organisations like the Hair and Beauty Industry Training Organisation (HITO)\u2014the hairdressing industry training organisation\u2014will be amalgamated into large workforce development councils, and their voice will be lost. Today, we place a stake in the ground for hairdressers and the industry training organisation HITO. We place a stake for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EIT will be merged with manufacturing, and that does not seem like a natural partner. Gas distribution will be merged with manufacturing, engineering, logistics, and technology\u2014again, not a natural partner\u2014to go into the workforce development councils. Remote pastoral care, especially for primary production, will be less and not more. Today, we place a stake in the ground for farmers and primary production training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThere will be less learners in vocational training. We know from the TEC\u2019s own programme business case that in the short term, there will be 18,000 less vocational learners. In the medium term\u2014maybe it gets better in the medium term? No, it\u2019s still bad: 23,000 less vocational learners in the medium term. There will be less learners under these reforms, and, again, this is their own information. The one mega polytechnic will have absorbed all the assets from regional polytechnics, and they will have spent it on the cost of the reform and their own ideological agenda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EUnder failing reforms, out-of-region provision for polytechnics will cease, and that\u2019ll cause a huge loss of morale and hope across the sector and, indeed, worsened financial viability. The statement was made at the second reading that the well-performing Southland Institute of Technology (SIT) was only supported by its Auckland campus. That is not true. We have it on good authority that there were a total of 46 domestic equivalent full-time students (EFTSs) in Auckland in 2019, and eight international EFTSs\u2014hardly a large number\u2014and outside of the mains, which the SIT took off Tai Poutini Polytechnic as a gesture, there are very few students from SIT in Auckland. They are not propping up SIT, but I think failure will also look like out-of-region provision disappearing from the purview of polytechnics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ERegional autonomy, academic freedom, and the ability for every region to determine what they will teach, where they will teach it, and how they will teach it will be at the command of the all-powerful workforce development councils. We will fight against these. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, I want to come to my third and final part, and I want to propose a question in the shape of a proposal. It\u2019s a question to New Zealand First and to Tracey Martin specifically. I want to thank her for her kind words. I too can work with you, Tracey Martin, and I think you\u2019re very thoughtful in this domain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI have a proposal for you, and it looks like this: today, you and I\u2014let\u2019s purchase the whole polytechnic sector. We own it. We\u2019ve assessed what the fixed assets are on the balance sheet. It\u2019s $2.5 billion of assets, and I\u2019ll go you halves. You and I\u2014$1.25 billion each. In fact, let\u2019s do more than that. This is the Shane Reti \u0026amp; Tracey Martin Buy NZ Polytechs Ltd\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019ll call it. That\u2019s what we\u2019ll call ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022368095fd1ddc497f8622a8734fdf71af\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMartin \u0026amp; Reti\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f469d5273bd4e54bf217dcb89b35f57\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s too late, because I\u2019ve already reserved the name with the Companies Office. Those of you who are online, search the Companies Office. We\u2019re company registration No. 14800883, and I want to thank the Companies Office for their help. I said I\u2019d give them some profile around the excellent work that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re now a company. We\u2019re the Shane Reti \u0026amp; Tracey Martin Buy NZ Polytechs Ltd. I\u2019m not 100 percent sure where I\u2019m going to get $1.25 billion from, but that\u2019s another matter. So here\u2019s the question\u2014we\u2019ll talk later\u2014that I ask you to ponder very deeply on: you and I now own the sector; if we had this skin in the game, are these the reforms, on this timetable, that we would undertake? Would this be the solution? If you and I owned the polytechnic sector, would this be our solution? I would say to you it would not be my solution. I ask you to ponder that question because even though it\u2019s sort of an example\u2014we don\u2019t have skin in the game\u2014we are the stewards of taxpayer money, so we\u2019re speaking on their behalf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI just do not believe\u2014I know you\u2019ve thought from this space\u2014that if we were partners in a joint venture, you would say \u201CThis is the right path forward, Shane. This is what we need to do and this is the time frame we need to do it in.\u201D I think we would take more time. I think we would come up with other solutions. There may be parts of what we see in front of us that may make sense, but what we\u2019re signing through as a bill today I do not believe would be what you and I would come up with. I think if that statement is true, then New Zealand First has the opportunity to get this right by voting against this bill today. If that\u2019s what your heart tells you, if that\u2019s what your business head tells you\u2014that, yes, there is a better way than what this bill is proposing\u2014then vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThis is not the solution, I believe, and so, in summary, we are opposing this bill. The National Party, in opposing this bill, speaks for all the regional polytechnics and industry training, and today we say no. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022b41e5e20b8bc45acbf77f8100591c517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b41e5e20b8bc45acbf77f8100591c517\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I\u2019m very excited to be standing here today in this third reading of the reform of vocational education and training\u2014I\u2019ve got that around the wrong way: the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s exciting because as a former educator\u2014and yes, it wasn\u2019t in this sector, but as a former educator\u2014I always used to get frustrated that we would keep doing the same old, same old and expecting different results, and that\u2019s exactly what I\u2019ve just heard. I\u2019ve just heard that we shouldn\u2019t be actually looking to make any changes in this sector, because there might be a risk. That was talked about, but that mitigation has been put in place. That\u2019s what we do when we look at risk: we mitigate that risk. If people understood the bill in its entirety, they would know that that risk has been mitigated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThirteen of the 16 polytechs are running in deficit. That is unsustainable, and this side of the House will not accept that any longer. That is why this bill is so exciting today. We are looking at a modern education system for our tertiary sector, for our skills sector. It is very exciting. We are creating a strong, unified, and sustainable\u2014and that word is the most important, \u201Csustainable\u201D\u2014system. We don\u2019t currently have one. Today, we change that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI commend the Minister of Education on his work that he has done in this space. This new system is simple. It is simple to understand and it\u2019s easy to navigate, and that is something that I\u2019m hearing out in the sector a lot, not only from the tertiary sector. I\u2019m hearing it from industry\u2014they are excited. I\u2019m also hearing it from the secondary guidance school counsellors, who are very excited about this system and how much easier it is for them to navigate, for their pupils, in what we heard the Minister talking about: that really important transition point. I have even heard it from four, five, six sources, maybe, on Monday, of school guidance counsellors who came to me and said \u201CThank you. We can\u2019t wait for this system to actually start. It will be better for our students.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ESector and industry input was huge throughout this bill. We heard it during the select committee stage. There was plenty of opportunity. We listened hard. We worked hard in that select committee, and I know that that\u2019s reflected in the final version of this particular bill. We\u2019re going to see better outcomes for the regions, because we\u2019re going to see a more consistent approach to the skills training in the regional areas. That is a very exciting part of this bill. We\u2019re going to deliver not only better outcomes for the regions but better outcomes for M\u0101ori and Pacific learners and better outcomes for disabled learners. What more could we ask for in that bill? It is there. If only people would actually open it up and read it and understand it and actually come and say, \u201CThis does need to happen for that sustainable pathway forward.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe current polytech and industry training system and the way that they work and are funded independently of each other is clumsy. It is clumsy not only in its legislative stature but in the way that it actually operates as well. This system and this bill today will tidy that up and make for a much better way forward. These reforms respond to the huge changes that industry and sector were crying out for. They respond to a changing world, they respond to a modern education system, and I am extremely excited to see them coming into place today. I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u002269edec8e9b6d49f688a29b0e2ed53118\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269edec8e9b6d49f688a29b0e2ed53118\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I rise, actually in a very sad way, to speak to this Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill. Can I start, though, by just acknowledging my parliamentary colleague the Dr Shane Reti\u2014I nearly called him \u201Cthe honourable\u201D. It could be a slip of the tongue. You are doing a fantastic job. Actually, the work and the heavy lifting that Shane has had to do, given the scale of disruption and the number of people that have contacted the Opposition regarding these reforms\u2014I just pay tribute to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ELook, at the outset, I do want to acknowledge that in many areas, the Hon Chris Hipkins and I have been able to work together, whether it\u2019s NCEA reform or even to pull the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools reform to a much better place. Unfortunately, it is with absolute sadness that in this area of the education portfolio, we could not be further apart, and I\u2019m going to walk the Parliament through some of the arguments Shane has already put up as to why we think that this is possibly one of the most devastating, destructive pieces of reform to reach this Parliament in the education area, really, in the last 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI want to start with the outset, the premise of what the problem is. It is correct on this side of the House, and it\u2019s been acknowledged by my learned colleague Jan Tinetti, that there were issues in terms of the viability of the polytechnic sector. That is correct. It is correct that the last National Government actually did undertake some mergers in this area. We know that there are issues around standards and quality, which we have previously raised and successive Ministers have raised, but as my colleague has pointed out, the solution was not this. The reality is that the overwhelming chorus from the hairdressers of New Zealand, from when I sat in the public meeting with the people of Invercargill as they voiced their concerns to the Minister\u2014and I do note that the Minister has not listened to the people of Invercargill\u2014was that this is a massive overreach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI was fortunately very privileged to be awarded a fellowship to Singapore, where I sat down with their officials and I talked to them about what is a comparable sector and the fact that they have less polytechnics than New Zealand. But to move to a single mega-merger is something that National has opposed, and for the following reasons. The first is the cost of this merger and the benefits. Shane has already worked you through that it\u2019s not just the Opposition that have raised significant issues around process, around the costs of the merger, around the benefits versus the disadvantages; we\u2019ve heard from Treasury, who have raised significant issues around uncertainty and costs. We\u2019ve heard in the regulatory impact statement itself about cost-effectiveness, issues of productivity. We\u2019ve heard that the Tertiary Education Commission themselves said to the Minister, \u201CDon\u2019t proceed with this.\u201D So pretty much everybody has said to the Minister, \u201CThis is a massive overreach. You\u2019ve gone too far. The proposals don\u2019t stack up.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe Government has to take responsibility. It\u2019s not just the Hon Chris Hipkins that will wear this at the election; it will also be\u2014unless New Zealand First at the last moment, and I\u2019m looking at the Hon Tracey Martin here, pull the plug. They will wear the fact that these reforms are not only bad from a fiscal perspective; they are bad from a governance perspective, they are bad from a regional perspective, and at the election, people will understand that more clearly. It is not OK, and I really do respect Jan Tinetti to say that people haven\u2019t read this legislation. Actually, we have heard from a lot of New Zealanders who have read this legislation, and that is part of the issue that they have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ENational has made a number of commitments around this legislation because we are opposed. The first is around community assets, and we did hear very eloquently from the Hon Nick Smith yesterday of an example in his area: Nelson Marlborough Institute of Technology (NMIT)\u2014$50 million worth of assets. These are hard-fought assets by the community. There are philanthropists who have been involved in this; there\u2019s community groups. So we see this as large-scale theft by the New Zealand Government from the regions, and we will be making that case over the coming months, and we have committed to returning those assets to the communities, to the people who have hard fought for and built up those assets for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EThe next issue that we are deeply concerned about\u2014and it could never have been more prevalent, and at a timing level it could not be worse\u2014is the issue of international students. We know with coronavirus that we are dealing with a very devastating event for New Zealand. I am fielding queries all over the country from people who have arrived here, some people who have ended up potentially having to go to campgrounds, people who have been stuck at airports, young people who are dealing with distance study. So the way that we handle ourselves through this period is crucial to be able to keep our international reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI am, on a daily basis, as is Shane, trying to pedal hard for New Zealand, to ensure that they have confidence in us. So to throw this massive piece of reform\u2014and it\u2019s not just the Opposition who have raised these issues of our international reputation. Chris Hipkins himself has actually received advice on this, at a time when we\u2019ve got coronavirus, but also people see massive uncertainty. They\u2019ve got questions about their previous academic qualification and the status of that and what that means in terms of their future job prospects\u2014it\u2019s actually quite serious, and the Opposition are very concerned about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EIn the area of industry training\u2014well, again, we have a very, very simple philosophy in this area: that industry training is best led by industry. Shane is absolutely right. In fact, I was with a hairdresser recently. She will be voting National, and there\u2019ll be a whole lot of other hairdressers in New Zealand that will be voting National as a result of this. Their voice has been taken away. There are many industries for which the case has not been made for what is excessive ideological Government control, centralisation, and there are many industry training organisations who are scratching their heads and actually are getting very motivated to campaign against Labour and the other parties in this Parliament, because they feel they are losing their voice. But it\u2019s worse than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EYou know, we believe on this side of the House that, actually, when you look at a community like Nelson, you look at NMIT, part of the innovation that has come from these institutions in the area of aviation, in the area of marine, has been because of that partnership between the institution and industry. What these reforms are doing, whether it\u2019s industry training, whether it\u2019s the single mega-merger, is they are paddling in a very different direction, where they are providing a greater disconnect between industry and our education institutions, and National will certainly oppose that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that we really do want to point out is that at a time when we\u2019ve got significant pressures around the education budget, we know that there is hundreds of millions\u2014and, again, we are very sceptical around the costs of this mega-merger\u2014that are being spent on this, given that it doesn\u2019t have the support of industry, doesn\u2019t have the support of a number of institutions, doesn\u2019t have the support of many of the communities from which assets are being stripped away. But also, to be able to pay for this, we\u2019ve seen the cancellation of things like both awards and scholarships, innovation projects, ICT graduate schools\u2014cancelled as a result of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003ESo let me be very clear: if I am the Minister of Education and I have the privilege to be the Minister of Education in September of this year\u2014and I, hopefully, will have a couple of Cabinet colleagues alongside me, Dr Shane Reti\u2014we will be paddling in a very different direction. We will be returning assets back to those communities, to the people of Invercargill, to the people of Nelson, who have been sold a pup by New Zealand First that they care about the regions. We will be returning those assets to those communities. We will be ensuring that at an education institutional level, there are greater partnerships between industry and those institutions. We will be stopping some of this reform, because we actually believe that there\u2019s no way that the Government will be able to implement all of this by the election, which we know they have a longer time frame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003EWe will be absolutely ensuring that we lift quality and standards where possible. That might include some shared services, but that is the right thing to do. It is not just what we believe; it\u2019s actually what multiple Government agencies told the Government around these reforms, that they were wrong, that they were not going to be cost-effective, they were not going to lead to greater productivity. It also represents the will of many people in New Zealand, from the hairdressers across the country to the people of Southland to the small businesses across New Zealand, and we will stand up for them. We will reverse what we think is ideological centralisation and madness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2bce7a52d024c99bc05509707b745bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2bce7a52d024c99bc05509707b745bf\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the bill. First of all, it is a little confusing, the rhetoric coming from the National Party. On one hand, they say that they will not work with New Zealand First at all, that they don\u2019t trust New Zealand First, that they cannot do any sort of working arrangement with New Zealand First, but then on the next hand, Dr Shane Reti wants me to go into a $3 billion business with him, and the Hon Nikki Kaye pleads with us to vote with them on this piece of legislation. I really, really need some clarity around the messaging, because you know, Dr Reti, that we will always work with people who are reasonable and practical and responsible when it comes to the direction of New Zealand. So as long as the National Party can get their colleagues together and decide which message they\u2019re actually after, then come and let me know\u2014come and let me know, Dr Reti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe next thing, ladies and gentlemen, about this piece of legislation, and what we\u2019ve heard so far, is, first of all, I\u2019m not sure whether I\u2019ve heard the National Party admit it or not yet: I heard the Hon Nikki Kaye there say that there were some challenges and so they merged some polytechs, but I\u2019m not sure whether I\u2019ve heard them actually admit that this Government, when it came into power, found that we had to pump a hundred million dollars in the first year to keep polytechs alive in 13 out of the 16 regions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing that\u2019s very telling is in all of the meetings that I have been in around this topic and with the Tertiary Education Commission (TEC), not once was there a solution by the previous Government on the table. Not once was there a solution for how to make this industry sustainable, how to make sure that the regions of New Zealand and the young people and, actually, just the general population had access to vocational training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo this Government needed to be inspirational. It needed to be visionary, because we could not keep pumping taxpayers\u2019 dollars into a broken system. I have not heard anything from the National Party in their opposition to this bill that suggests that they have a plan. They are actually saying they\u2019re going to keep part of this plan. They\u2019re talking about undoing bits and pieces of it, but they\u2019re talking about keeping some of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe Hair and Beauty Industry Training Organisation (HITO), the hairdressers of New Zealand\u2014your representative group\u2014came in to see me. We whiteboarded this up. They told us where their issues were, where the barriers were, during the discussion period. We have addressed those issues. The legislation changed between the discussion document and what is now about to pass through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about the workforce development councils, we talk about industry, through the workforce development councils, having the capacity to direct 80 percent of the TEC\u2019s funding in vocational training. Never before has industry had such an opportunity, through the workforce development councils, to direct Government funding into the skills that they need to produce the New Zealanders that can walk into their workplace and start on job, and most of that training will be delivered on job. One of the problems that the industry thought was going to happen was they thought that everybody was going to be put into a polytech classroom. That is not what is going to happen. We have combined the work that we\u2019ve been doing around the future of work where we need to train, un-train, and retrain constantly our workforce. That includes our 40-year-olds, our 45-year-olds, our 60-year-olds, our 65-year-olds, because there is no retirement age in this country. People are allowed to, and should, keep working as long as they wish to work. It keeps them healthy and it keeps them connected. We are aware that most of that training and retraining will need to be done on job. There is a lot of scope. It\u2019s a visionary picture that the Minister of Education has put together, and industry is excited about it. Educators are excited about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut I understand about patch protection, and I understand that change upsets people. I do understand that, but as we have worked through\u2014I whiteboarded it with M\u0101ori business, I whiteboarded it with the HITO, with the electricals, with the master plumbers. We have been through these conversations, and changes were made. New Zealand First is confident that we can get our polytechs and our regional provision on to a solid footing and we will finally be able to deliver, through workforce leadership, through workforce planning, given back to industry, the right skills to New Zealanders to be able to deliver for business the skills that they need to grow their businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to sit down in a minute, but I want to say one last thing around the protection of assets. The Minister had already come out prior to this legislation coming into the House and said that assets that were given to polytechs, that were raised by community funds or had been gifted and so on, there is a way to ring-fence those assets. I would say to the National Party: you are not talking about giving away assets that were purchased with taxpayers\u2019 dollars. Surely, that is not what the National Party is saying. So the Minister has already said there is an opportunity to ring-fence those cash assets so that they are spread back into the area the polytech currently has. The Minister also gave concessions around those assets\u2014and I mentioned the Invercargill Licensing Trust and the Auckland campus when I was talking about the Southern Institute of Technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e55396b8074fa3a967a5ad9471aa5f\u0022\u003ESarah Dowie\u003C/span\u003E: Keep your hands off their money, too. Keep your hands off their money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292d32264b48c4f469c366748f8581cd9\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: So if there have been\u2014Ms Dowie, let\u2019s have a constructive conversation rather than screeching across the House\u2014assets that have been given by the Invercargill Licensing Trust or assets that have been gifted by other means, there is an ability to ring-fence those for that polytech. But if those assets were bought with taxpayers\u2019 dollars, they are taxpayers\u2019 assets, and surely\u2014surely\u2014the National Party is not talking about putting into private hands or into a private trust taxpayers\u2019 assets. Surely, they are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First will support the bill. We\u2019ll continue to work with industry, we\u2019ll continue to work with the Minister, because something needed to be done. The National Party had absolutely no idea. They left behind a complete disaster, and this Government stepped up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa85c393d0c14ed1be17fb36021ad033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa85c393d0c14ed1be17fb36021ad033\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Our position on this bill hasn\u2019t changed. I\u2019m taking this call to say that we\u2019ll be opposing this legislation in the third reading\u2014this is the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill. It was really interesting to see how the Hon Tracey Martin got so excited about the company that Dr Shane Reti mentioned he is planning to set up in partnership with her. I should say that she should not get too hopeful, because, no, we have already ruled out New Zealand First and we will not be working with New Zealand First. That\u2019s very, very clear. I thought I\u2019d make it very clear, because she appeared so excited about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m disappointed to hear the way the Hon Tracey Martin talked about taxpayers\u2019 money. All of a sudden, now this Government has realised that taxpayers\u2019 money has to be valued differently. The way she talked about taxpayers\u2019 money and control over polytechs clearly shows this Government is about control. It\u2019s not about polytechs, it\u2019s not about local communities, it\u2019s not about local learners, it\u2019s not about local businesses, but it\u2019s all about their control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis legislation, as we know, is to integrate vocational education and workplace training into one statute. This reform\u2014we have been saying this from day one\u2014is going to be really disastrous for the vocational education sector. We know this is going to bring a centralised approach, which is not going to work. We have been saying that, and there are several reasons why we believe that the centralised approach, through the setup of the New Zealand Institute of Skills and Training, will not work. We also notice that workforce development councils (WDCs) will be taking control of all 11 industry training organisations (ITOs) These 11 ITOs will be absorbed into these WDCs, and we know that small ITOs will suffer because there will be no way for them to have their voice heard in this whole process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ETalking about process, from the start we have seen that this has been a very, very rushed process. These Government parties were in Opposition for nine years, but all of a sudden, when the Government was formed after the last general election in 2017\u2014an accidental Government; that is what people say, and I agree with them\u2014they didn\u2019t know what to do, so they carried on with the Order Paper that was set up by the previous National Government. For up to around 1\u00BD years\u2019 time, we saw Ministers rushing to the House to fill up the House time because they wanted the House, obviously, continuing and wanted to look like they had some business on the Order Paper. Then in just the last few months, we are seeing this kind of legislation coming up, and the whole process has been rushed through. We would have actually liked to see that more time was given to this kind of legislation because it is such a big reform of our vocational education sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn the select committee process, we had to sit in subcommittees. There\u2019s a reason why we have a number for each select committee. These people, those who submit, they spend a lot of their time to write their submission and then appear before the select committee as well. I can imagine it must have been really disappointing for them to come to Wellington, and Dunedin as well\u2014we had some submitters there\u2014to see only three or four members on that select committee. It was only because we had to meet the report time line for this legislation to the House. Not just that; in the committee of the whole House yesterday, I was really disappointed to see that while members this side, members that are standing up with their local polytechnics, were taking calls, Government members were really keen to shut down the debate. We have been fighting, and we have been very clear that we will continue to fight, for these polytechnics. We want that localism maintained, and we will make sure that polytechnics continue to have that kind of localism when we come back in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe other important point that my colleagues have also raised is about their assets. We had the big lecture from the Hon Tracey Martin that taxpayers\u2019 money can be taken away any time, but what about their effort that they have put in to establish that polytechnic, according to the industry needs that are there at the local level? It\u2019s really disappointing to see that this Government thinks that they can come and put a control like they want to through this centralised approach, which we know is not going to work for anybody at the local level. Having this head office dictating to all these polytechnics what they should be doing, we have no confidence in this model. We do not believe that this kind of model is actually going to work and will understand what local industry needs are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI raised this before, yesterday in the committee of the whole House, that the Auckland region is a very different region compared to other regions. There might be some similarities in other regions, but Auckland definitely has some dissimilarities, and we need to take into account those dissimilarities. Putting them under that same head office is not going to deliver for the Auckland region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe other point I mentioned was about immigration. Yes, we acknowledge some polytechnics are suffering, and it\u2019s not because of other reasons, but one of the reasons that we know is this current Government\u2019s policies, because as soon as this Government was formed, there was a negative signal sent out to the country\u2019s international students. They stopped coming into our country, and that\u2019s why so many polytechnics have been suffering. Yes, it\u2019s easy to blame so many other reasons, but I believe that this has been one of the main reasons, because our international education sector is vital for these polytechnics. Now, of course, we have coronavirus, which we have talked about, so these polytechnics are going to suffer even more while they\u2019re going through this reform that is being imposed on them by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe next issue that I want to raise is about job losses. The Minister, the Hon Chris Hipkins himself, has accepted that there will be substantial job losses\u2014the \u201Csubstantial\u201D word has been used. Our tertiary education spokesperson, Dr Shane Reti, has been saying this from day one\u2014that there\u2019ll be at least more than a thousand jobs lost\u2014more than a thousand jobs that we believe will be lost because of this reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really sad that this Government takes this lightly. At the start of this year, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2014this is because of their other policy\u2014said that there will be 6,500 jobs lost because of their policies in this year, and now with this legislation, we will see more job losses. These people have been working hard in their sector, and if we see these polytechnics in our regions\u2014cities are different\u2014some of those people, I believe, are living there only because they have that job in that polytechnic. Now, those people, when they become jobless, what kinds of opportunities will they have? They may not have other opportunities available to them that match their skillset. But this Government thinks it\u2019s fine for this many people to lose jobs. On this side, we care about employment; we know that employment is important for people. The economy\u2019s already sliding into a really, really bad place under this Government, business confidence is going down, people are not employing people, and here this legislation will lead to job losses, and, as I said, more than a thousand people will be losing jobs because of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo how can this legislation be a good thing for us? We have been hearing a lot about making the vocational education sector sustainable. Sustainable? Yes. Providing access? Of course it has been providing access to people\u2014those who need training. We said that, yes, there are some polytechnics that are struggling, but there are polytechnics that are doing well as well. So who is going to make sure that the polytechnics that are working well will be actually provided support to do better?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EPolytechnics that need support\u2014we want to be sure that they will be lifted up. But in this legislation, we do not get that assurance. All we see is this is a big reform so it will be a centralised approach\u2014that is what this legislation will bring, but there is no assurance that this will actually really support our polytechnic sector. And, as I said, yes, all polytechnics are not the same\u2014there are some polytechnics that are doing really well, and we have no assurance that they will be doing better with these reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ETalking about assets, again, and cash reserves\u2014it\u2019s important that those polytechnics are able to utilise those resources for their own development, and that won\u2019t be happening under this Government, because this Government likes to have that control. Nanny State\u2014they are quite known for bringing nanny State, and this legislation, actually, is a very good example of that. They want to control everything from here; they want to look like they know what\u2019s happening in different parts of a country without going out and talking to people, without giving them the opportunity to say what they have to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo we are quite disappointed, because this legislation is going to take away the voice of local businesses, local learners, local employers. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00223668a1f617344fa99d6255f8b80eab2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223668a1f617344fa99d6255f8b80eab2b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I would like to join with other members of this Government in celebrating what is the third and final reading of this vocational education reform bill. I want to touch on and address a few of the points that have been raised by members of the Opposition. I think it makes sense primarily to, firstly, address the contribution by Dr Shane Reti. It is very much in his characteristic style to which I\u2019ve become accustomed, which is deeply thoughtful, and very creative, actually. I think that\u2019s the furthest that I\u2019ve ever seen anybody in this House go for a gag\u2014to register a company\u2014and I think that we have seen the equivalent of the Green Party members bringing protest signs into the House; for the National Party it\u2019s registering a company. It\u2019s funny to see that that\u2019s where we land in terms of how we are representing our respective demographics out there across Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also want to touch on a number of the points that are being raised by the likes of Nikki Kaye and the honourable Parmjeet Parmar. I really want to dig into these, primarily because I think it is important to address what appear to be some very deep inconsistencies, and I don\u2019t do this for the sake of doing that typical political tit-for-tat thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4445d074a954aa284b859f77aebd323\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: Of course you do!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d280c3b299bc45409943b5709104d8e8\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: I find it, quite frankly, Matty King\u2014Matt King\u2014rather distasteful and unnecessary, and a waste of everybody\u2019s time. But, ultimately, what we\u2019re talking about here is how much we can trust what is being put forward by the respective political parties and by their talking points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo in talking about that kind of trust and faith, on the points that have been raised by the honourable Dr Parmjeet Parmar, there was this kind of what felt a bit like crocodile tears around job losses. The National Party was saying that they deeply care about employment. I can totally empathise with them on that point. But on the issue of what we inherited with regards to polytechnics and the state that they were in, and having to inject that $100 million when we first came into Government\u2014the first year, in which none of our policies had yet, at that point in time, come into effect\u2014we inherited that when we opened the books and saw what was happening in the polytech sector. To say that we should somehow keep all of what\u2019s been going on on a lifeline while the National Party figures out what kind of solution they want to put forward is really quite confusing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThey also spoke about\u2014and I\u2019d like to agree with Dr Parmar that Auckland is special. I agree that Auckland is special, and this is the opportunity that\u2019s provided by the likes of the workforce development councils: for regions around the country to no longer unnecessarily and wastefully compete with each other, but actually to specialise and to showcase why they\u2019re special, and to attract people to their regions because of that specialisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, too, I\u2019d really like to touch on\u2014again, as I have done in pretty much every single reading of this bill so far\u2014and address the localism point that\u2019s been raised by members of the Opposition. And I\u2019d like to acknowledge my colleague across the House Lawrence Yule, who was indeed the head of Local Government New Zealand, who, I note, was opposed to many of the measures that the former National Government undertook around removing localism\u2014the likes of, for example, the amalgamation of different regional and city councils into the Auckland super-city. So I\u2019d just like to state upfront that I\u2019m really excited about the newfound passion for localism within the National Party, and I look forward to their support of a number of Green Party measures when it comes to things like revenue-sharing, and otherwise, between local and central government. And I\u2019m sure Lawrence Yule will be on board if he can\u2019t get the rest of his party on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo now to address the bill itself, not just the critiques that have been levelled, which I hope I\u2019ve kind of showcased seem to be rather baseless, not least because there isn\u2019t any form of solution from the National Opposition. But I just want to touch on three key points. The first is to address and unpack what we\u2019re actually doing here and why we\u2019re doing it. The second is to note that change was inevitable, not least because this sector was run down demonstrably by the previous Government. And the third is to state that this is not going to be a static transformation. There is much more to come; it doesn\u2019t end after we pass this piece of legislation. And as many of the local members from the National Party Opposition mentioned during their committee of the whole House contributions yesterday, this is going to be a process undertaken over the next few years, and I hope that they engage collaboratively and creatively and constructively to ensure that we get the best outcomes for our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo to the first point: what are we doing here? Why are we doing this? The first point, of course, is to improve outcomes for learners. And I\u2019ll note that I\u2019m being heckled at the moment around that point of improving outcomes for learners. So it\u2019s probably important to state that it was the National Party in Government, in their former term of Government, who removed the right of staff and student representatives to be on boards of tertiary and polytech institutions\u2014and I will return to it later. This decision by the former National Government was noted by a number of submitters, not least by staff and students from the likes of Unitec, who stated that as a result of these decisions under the former National Government, we ended up with poor decisions under polytechs because their voices weren\u2019t taken into account. So forgive me if I feel as though what we\u2019re currently hearing from the National Party are crocodile tears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe second important thing, following improving outcomes for learners, is greater coordination in the workforce. And surely if the National Party is going to consistently bring up the need for employment, this is a good thing. We\u2019re talking here about providing a nationwide roadmap of the kinds of jobs that are going to be available, and where people can study in order to get those jobs. That is a practical measure which I would have thought everybody in Parliament could support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAnd the third point around why we are doing this is to ensure that we have joined-up thinking that isn\u2019t just some highfalutin kind of ambiguity but is about reducing, or actually intentionally trying to end, unnecessary competition between polytechs across the country, many of which I\u2019m sure the National Party, as well as my colleagues in Government, have spoken to and found many challenges under the funding situation that they had to operate in prior to these proposals. That\u2019s not to say that these proposed changes were at all met with huge celebration across the country. Change is hard, and we will happily acknowledge that as this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe other important point around that joined-up thinking is to allow regional specialisation and the championing of what each region around the country does well. So to my second point: that change was inevitable. As I stated earlier, when we came into Government, opened up the books, and looked across sectors at the challenges that were being faced, I am astounded that the Nats appear to be in favour of us continuing to allow polytechs to be kept on this lifeline\u2014the can kicked down the road\u2014to the tune of approximately a hundred million dollars a year. It\u2019s astounding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard from polytechs\u2014a number of whom submitted to the select committee\u2014that they felt as though they were being run down under the former Government, to the extent that they felt as though they were perhaps being edged slowly into privatisation or into having to close down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to touch on the point raised by Dr Shane Reti around the olive branch that was extended, particularly to the New Zealand First Party. Throughout the committee of the whole House stage, the National Party spoke about all of the Supplementary Order Papers that they had tabled, which were to do with every single polytech that\u2019s listed in this legislation. I\u2019d like to remind the National Party that the Greens, too, are always happy to work across the aisle, when you are willing, as Dr Shane Reti is aware\u2014we worked together on things like medicinal cannabis. There is much better opportunity to do so in other massive reform areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust in my final minute, I think it\u2019s important to state that this is not the end of the road; we don\u2019t pass this legislation, and everything\u2019s clamped down, and that\u2019s that. This is going to be an evolving process, and relationships here are going to be critical. And I really hope that with the passage of this legislation today, at the third and final reading, after it passes Royal assent and then everything kicks into gear, the National Party are able to work constructively with their local polytechs, with their communities, to make sure that we get the best outcomes across the board. We are not going to get that from resistance for resistance\u2019s sake. It is about trying actively and proactively to ensure that we get the best possible workforce development councils, for example, that represent the best of our regions across this country. And I\u2019d just finally like to state that so, too, the success of this depends on the ongoing involvement of communities and their new entities; success relies on collaboration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022484629c15ed945e4b7ba0a59ce1ce621\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022484629c15ed945e4b7ba0a59ce1ce621\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill. There was a brief moment a little bit earlier this afternoon when people weren\u2019t sure whether I was actually in the House. I am here, but I may need a cushion just so that I can be seen from time to time. I do suffer from small man syndrome, but that\u2019s OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s great to be here and great to take a call on this bill. I would like to just refute a couple of the points made by the previous speaker from the Green Party. She made a very astute point, which was that once we pass this legislation, it won\u2019t just be a rosy road straight away. And I would like to just remind the speaker that that is dead right. There isn\u2019t going to be a rosy road for the Institutes of Technology and Polytechnics of New Zealand sector and vocational education and training in New Zealand under these changes, and the advice that the Tertiary Education Commission (TEC) have been very clear to us about has been that this will cost taxpayers $200 million to $400 million for the cost of these reforms\u2014to make these changes\u2014and that there will be an additional $50 million per year needing to be put into the sector just to make these changes work. So no, there won\u2019t be a rosy road, and, in fact, it\u2019s going to cost an enormous amount of taxpayers\u2019 money to make this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESecondly, we\u2019ve been told by the TEC that there is a high risk that there will be thousands fewer traineeships, thousands fewer apprenticeships, and that this will see basically a slowing down of the progress which has been made in increasing apprenticeship numbers and increasing traineeship numbers across New Zealand, as our economy was going so well under the previous Government. I would also like to remind the members on the other side that when they talk about the financial state of the polytech sector, they should actually look at the Government\u2019s financial state. They inherited surpluses as far as the eye could see, and now we see that they\u2019ve even managed to put the Government into deficit, and they also should take a look at the district health board sector as well, while we\u2019re talking about financial troubles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo what does this bill do? This bill consolidates all polytechs into one under a mega polytechnic. It uses our apprenticeships and traineeships to prop up the New Zealand Institute of Skills and Technology (NZIST), and it grabs millions and millions of dollars from our communities to basically prop up this new machine: $12 million from Ara, $4.4 million will be stolen from the Southern Institute of Technology, $6.5 million stolen from Toi Ohomai, $3.6 million stolen from Northland. Millions of dollars and that doesn\u2019t even go to the community assets which have been paid for, donated, by generous people in the community or paid for by ratepayers such as what\u2019s happened in Nelson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f3b1b08e2554652936ca95c88a15233\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: They can be ring-fenced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deef7b93595b4778a0fc25d82ba542d3\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for the local polytech. These communities\u2014and I hear people on the other side. I hear Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick on the other side saying they\u2019re going to be ring-fenced. Well, what\u2019s the threshold of what\u2019s going to be ring-fenced and how are we going to guarantee that this money will actually stay in those communities? I can see this money being sucked up and being used elsewhere around New Zealand, and I can see that as the NZIST gets in, those commitments, those promises which have been made, will be forgotten. That is, unfortunately, what I think will happen under these reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, the advice we\u2019ve received has made it very clear that the cost will increase and the results will be less than what we see now. So what we see is that we\u2019re going to see fewer apprenticeships for a higher amount of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELastly, in conclusion, what is the National Party going to be doing if we\u2019re elected in September this year? We will return polytechnic assets taken by Labour and give them back to their communities, and we will return apprenticeships back to industry. National supports apprenticeships and regional polytechnics. We will fight for their voice and their autonomy against these ideological education reforms. And if we are successful this year, we will return to regions the assets the Government has taken. We\u2019ll give them back their autonomy. That\u2019s what we\u2019ll do if we\u2019re elected back to Government, and we can\u2019t wait to get that done from 20 September. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00220951fecaae76478ba450302538fffc99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220951fecaae76478ba450302538fffc99\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. In my area, in the Hutt Valley, one of the big advocates for these changes has been the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, because they see the clear benefits for local businesses and small employers. One of the biggest issues that I hear from those small-business owners is that the people they get employed haven\u2019t had on-the-job training. This is why it\u2019s a great bill. It gives young people who are learning the opportunity to learn in the workplace and to have that hands-on training alongside of the extra-curricular support. And that is the key difference. It\u2019s addressing that disjuncture we\u2019ve had between training and real life skills in the workplace, and that is why local businesses support it, that is why the local chamber of commerce supports it, and that is why our young people will be better off for having better learning and better job experiences as they train. I commend this most excellent bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7bc5e01092741cea5f3ce3b2112ebac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7bc5e01092741cea5f3ce3b2112ebac\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much indeed. Earlier, National speakers have reiterated National\u2019s very strong concerns over this deeply flawed bill which is unwanted in many parts of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI particularly want to commend the very detailed, thorough, thoughtful analysis that we have had from Dr Shane Reti, the MP for Whang\u0101rei and our tertiary education spokesperson, this afternoon and indeed throughout the whole process of this bill. I have seldom, in my 12 years as a member of this House, seen a colleague engage so fulsomely, so intelligently, so thoughtfully in an issue and provide the leadership that he has. And I want to acknowledge that because it\u2019s been impressive. And to those who have attacked Dr Reti through this process, I want to point out that he is a gentleman who engages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be675facf3b04816ac01d41cd8fcb694\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: And a scholar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554e00724a5a4de5aa716f1045b5cd95\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014very thoughtfully. A gentleman and scholar. Yes, I agree, Ms Swarbrick. He is a gentleman and a scholar\u2014and he\u2019s sitting right in front of me, so I don\u2019t want to get him too puffed up, but he has engaged very thoughtfully with institutes of technology right around the country. And I know how much that was appreciated in my own city of Hamilton, where he met with representatives from Wintec. They have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c8600ac4ee44e52a5f8cb6d12b8157b\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: A good polytechnic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259792644d91f4d0eabaf7f32bb79b440\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014huge confidence in him. It is a very good polytechnic, as Dr Reti is stating, and I want to thank him for that very constructive and thorough engagement. [Interruption] I\u2019d like to write that into the record, Dr Reti\u2014ha, ha\u2014but that might be problematic at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is a measure that uses a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It\u2019s a measure that tramples over property rights. It\u2019s a measure that treats all New Zealand polytechnics as failures when many, including Wintec, have very proud records of success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d7c497715544f0aec15db2ecee864c\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: So he\u2019s next in line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fe80b2a13c943779a4a7c8b8ddbafd1\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a measure that has the potential, Mr Jackson, to do enormous damage to our tertiary education system, and to our industry training organisations, and to many communities, especially in our smaller, regional centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, last night, I was present for the whole of the committee stage debate on this bill. In fact, I had Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 443 in my name, seeking to exempt Wintec from the bill\u2019s provisions. My reason for doing it was on the grounds that Wintec is doing well. I\u2019m a great believer that if something ain\u2019t broke, you don\u2019t try to fix it. But I was only given one call in that committee stage of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s well established in our Standing Orders that on important measures, members might\u2014not will, but might\u2014enjoy up to four calls per part of a debate on a bill. Last night, I took my first call and I spoke on some of the important provisions of Part 1. In particular, I put questions to the Minister of Education that were not answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI signalled that I wanted to speak in my second call on the SOP, and I was not given the chance to do that. I think this is a very worrying development in this House, because it\u2019s not the first time that members opposite haven\u2019t spoken, and instead members have just wanted to shut down the debate with closure motions. They are doing a great disservice to our country on a measure of this magnitude when they don\u2019t engage in the debate and they simply look to shut it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo let me conclude by saying this bill shouldn\u2019t pass today. At its very least, the commencement date should be deferred until well after the people have spoken in this year\u2019s general election and the next Parliament has a chance to consider the verdict of the people. So, therefore, I supported last night the suggestion from Dr Reti that it should be deferred at least until a date in 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis is a very sad day for my region, and for all who have contributed to the proud history of Wintec, which dates back to 1924\u2014so just four years short of our centenary\u2014and which, last year, had 13,000 students. I want to thank the chair and council and the acting chief executive and staff of Wintec for their very fine work over many, many years. I am sorry that their fine work is being demeaned by this Government and undermined by this very poor bill. But I will continue to support and advocate for Wintec in whatever way I can in my capacity as Hamilton West\u2019s MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00223caef53ba7c44774acb18d9a8776667c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223caef53ba7c44774acb18d9a8776667c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in opposition to the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill, and I want to record the party\u2019s position and the reasons for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe have an education system at the tertiary level that centres on the student\u2014not the institution, on the student. The reason for that is intuitive to most people, that education is about investment in students, ensuring that this country and those individuals have the skills and abilities to navigate a better tomorrow. That much should be simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAn unfortunate thing, but a number of the institutions in the polytech and institutes of technology and polytechnic sector were failing the students. The problem was that the students, who have their whole lives ahead of them and understand what is in their best interests, were trying to send those institutions a message: we don\u2019t want to give you our money; we think you should go broke. That\u2019s what was happening to those institutions. They were failing because they failed the students. What a logical system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnybody who\u2019s ever been in business will know that if your customers aren\u2019t giving you their money, unfortunately they\u2019re trying to tell you something. You either adapt and start giving your customers what they want, or you go under. That should have been the reality for these failing institutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat are the priorities of this Government? Is it to ensure the welfare of the student? No. We see in this legislation that this Government wants to protect the institution. This Government thinks it\u2019s more important to save failing institutions by merging them into an even bigger bureaucracy that is just as likely to fail as the ones it replaces, instead of giving the students options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat were the options for those students? Well, actually, they have many, because outside of this mega merged polytechnic are a range of innovative private training enterprises, of real businesses that actually have to attract a student\u2019s dollar to make a buck, who are now going to be marginalised because when they were succeeding, when their competitors were failing, the Government has come along and tips the playing field away from them and towards the institutions that were failing the students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo here\u2019s what we have from this Government: in a situation where we had failure and students voting with their feet and going places that were better for their future, this Government has decided to put the institution before the student, to put centralisation before choice, and to put a much bigger bureaucracy before entrepreneurship, creativity, and the rights of New Zealanders to make a better tomorrow for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ELet me finish by making a prediction. This bureaucracy that this Government is creating with the passage of this bill today\u2014unless some members on the Government side come to their senses before the vote\u2014will be no more successful than the bureaucracy it replaces, because it has all the same problems. Fundamentally, it will be driven by politics, rather than the individual choice of the students who know what\u2019s best for them and their future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhen this bureaucracy fails, we, or at least some of us who are still here in this Parliament, will find ourselves back here once again trying to reform a failed bureaucratic system. What this Government should have done is say the funding for education belongs to the student. They can take it to the institution of their choice, and if the institution can\u2019t make a buck, and it\u2019s closing down, maybe that\u2019s what should happen. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002226b5ea4b88084cadaccabfd43a6ca8a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226b5ea4b88084cadaccabfd43a6ca8a4\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to talk for quite a while, but I can\u2019t. But I will say this, I agree with part of what the previous speaker said. He was responsible for propping up a failed system; he admitted that in his speech today. He knows what a total failure it was, but he pledged his undying support, sadly, to a National Government who did not appreciate his skills and his efforts and his innovativeness. Now I\u2019ll give him the opportunity to support a Government who knows what they\u2019re doing\u2014who knows what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe took over a $100 million debt from a Government who didn\u2019t give a stuff about the regions, about our young people, about our students. Shame on the previous National Government. Shame on David Seymour for propping them up. I absolutely commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u00227b2316953cc847378400ecc2ad634526\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b2316953cc847378400ecc2ad634526\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E The previous speaker, Willie Jackson, has just said that the Government knows what they\u2019re doing. This is how they know what they\u2019re doing: they\u2019re now about to implement the most damaging tertiary sector reform in 30 years. If the previous speaker thinks that that\u2019s the definition of knowing what they\u2019re doing, then they need some serious help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThis is nothing more than a fees-free disaster in the making. That\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen\u2014another round of a fees-free disaster in the making. You\u2019re putting billions of dollars of taxpayer money at risk, and the Government knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThe number one travesty\u2014the number one travesty\u2014of this reform that we will pass, certainly, in just moments away, is that the Government\u2014this is their biggest blight\u2014has failed to see the most obvious thing right in front of them, that industry understands the needs of industry best. I\u2019ll repeat that again: industry knows the needs of industry best. And, instead, they\u2019ve been run roughshod over, and there\u2019s a Government that apparently knows what they\u2019re doing, according to the previous speaker, but it is industry that knows what industry needs best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another aspect to this particular massive upheaval and reform, the most damaging reform in the last 30 years in the tertiary sector, and that\u2019s the timing of this\u2014the economic timing and the context of what this Government\u2019s doing. So the economy, we know, is facing an uphill battle at the moment. We\u2019ve got an overburdening Government and a significant skill shortage, and here they go with a massive, massive reform at this particular time. It\u2019s not going to relieve pressure; it\u2019s going to compound it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got the construction sector crying out for new workers. We need workers who know how to swing a hammer and\u2014ahem\u2014get some KiwiBuild houses built. But, instead, we\u2019re going to face over 2,000 fewer apprentices. And that\u2019s what Treasury says, that\u2019s what the business case says: 2,000 fewer apprentices. That\u2019s what your own numbers are telling everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s the international student market. We know that they\u2019ve faced a lot of pressure with the issues in delays in visa processing of late. And now we\u2019ve got coronavirus, where the international student sector is crying out for some certainty around, perhaps, exemptions to travel bans. Whatever it is that they need, they\u2019re crying out for. So you\u2019ve got this economic setting at the moment, and here we are running roughshod with massive reform\u2014the biggest in 30 years. Does the Government really want to push through these reforms at this particular time? That\u2019s in addition to the reforms just being fundamentally wrong anyway. These are the sorts of questions that we put to the Minister, and the Minister just ignored it at our committee stage yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EAnd then I want to raise the Hon Tracey Martin referring to her whiteboard exercise with the hairdressing industry\u2014worth, by the way, $580 million to the economy; that was the 2017 figure. It\u2019s a very big industry and very big contributor to our economy. When the Hon Tracey Martin referred to her whiteboard exercise, literally, with the industry, she didn\u2019t actually say what the outcome of that was. But I can tell you what the outcome of that was. It\u2019s written down here from the hairdressing sector: \u201COur position on the reform has not changed from our original submission, which included a petition with approximately 1,000 names of hairdressers that did not support the proposed changes\u201D. So there you go: there\u2019s the hairdressing opinion on this particular reform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EWhiteboard exercises or not, in the Hon Tracey Martin\u2019s office, it does not matter. They don\u2019t support it. We don\u2019t support it. This is damaging reform and yet another damaging reputation on this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022437865926c9e41b28ae72c290401f31b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022437865926c9e41b28ae72c290401f31b\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E How extraordinary it is that after around 40 speeches from the Opposition over the course of this piece of legislation in the House, we have not heard a single solution for how we move forward the interests of the vocational sector in New Zealand, one of the most critical sectors for the wellbeing of our young people and the future of our economy; a sector inherited by this Government, bleeding money, $100 million a year, and with massive shortages in key sectors of vocational training. Try and find enough plumbers or electricians or carpenters or labourers out there at the moment\u2014a legacy of failure and a legacy of that previous Government that did nothing over nine years to deal with these problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWith this Government, and under our Minister of Education, Chris Hipkins, things are different. We are taking up the challenges, dealing with the long-term challenges presented in the sector, and we have a positive plan to make sure that this sector moves forward, that we train the young people that we need for our economy and our society, and that we give them a bit of hope and the skills that they need to develop useful careers in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is a good piece of legislation. It has wide support across the sector, across staff in the sector, across key industry organisations, and it\u2019s going to make a real difference. It\u2019s part of this Government\u2019s positive plan. I\u2019m delighted to commend it to this House on this, its final reading. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227dcf35309e5e446597dbaf3a488bb9d9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Education (Vocational Education and Training Reform) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002263375a61728a49898201087f1e9f2834\u0022\u003EElectoral Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b268d4188c364f6a8f7454554cc4468c\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000520\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 18 February.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f233e01a0c34559935abbc1179bb33e\u0022\u003EPart 2 Related amendments and repeals\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226eab2d0c39e94f159bcd9cace3841faa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226eab2d0c39e94f159bcd9cace3841faa\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Part 2 of this bill does two things of which I want to make some comments on in the remaining three-and-a-bit minutes that I have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe first of those is in replacement regulation 52 of the Electoral Regulations, inserted by clause 24, and there we are making changes to the regulations, and I want to emphasise to the Chamber how strongly National supports those. These are amendments about making it as easy as possible for our defence personnel serving in different parts of the world to vote. The reason National\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21fb304279443eca239ca3626edb288\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: You told us last night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d682629687a42ccabd4de29c2a48531\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so supportive of those measures, Mr Wood, is that the very people that are serving our country in dangerous places around the world, championing the values that Kiwis hold dear of democracy, should not be inconvenienced in any way in being able to exercise their vote. In fact, our view would be that through their line of work and the risks that they are taking for New Zealand, it is incumbent on New Zealand and our Parliament to ensure that they are able to exercise those democratic rights, and that is properly provided for in clause 24, that makes changes around the voting for those members of our Defence Force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe part that I\u2019m far less enthusiastic about is clause 19 and the changes that it is making consequential to the Government\u2019s decision and voting on the same day. That is not a change that was recommended by the Electoral Commission for the 2020 election; it\u2019s a change that the Government is making because it thinks it can screw the scrum a bit its way for the 2020 election. We know there are about 19,000 votes where people have not enrolled on election day. The reason that National is nervous of the provisions in clause 19 is that it completely removes the incentive for people to enrol. Effectively, what the Government is saying to the people of New Zealand is \u201CDon\u2019t bother enrolling, you can turn up any old day you like and you\u2019ll still be allowed to vote\u201D. It will be a consequence of these provisions, including clause 19, that over time the number of people enrolling will drop because there is no restriction or no requirement to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EAnd we\u2019re also concerned about the consequential amendments that have the election writ day, final conclusion of the election, and the results announced being delayed by 10 days. Already we have a problem of too great a portion of the electoral cycle being consumed by election uncertainty; I already see it in the Government\u2019s eyes today that they are more concerned with re-election than getting on and governing the country, and the concern that we have is that New Zealand has a very short electoral period\u2014three years. That period has been further shortened in my period because we have not only the election and the results of the final special votes being counted, we can have periods up to 100 days of which negotiations occur to be able to form a Government and that is just churning up an increasing proportion of the three years electoral cycle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo what we see in the consequential amendments in Part 2, in clause 19 is the Government delaying the formation of a Government by 10 days. Some people say, \u201CWell, what the heck? What\u2019s 10 days?\u201D Well, actually, the Government spends $1.3 billion per week. That\u2019s another week and a half of which you don\u2019t have an elected Government giving clear directions to the officials and all that Government is responsible for, and that is one of the reasons that we are not supportive of the change the Government is wanting to make around same-day enrolment and voting. We think the Government has overruled the Electoral Commission on this view, that they\u2019ve overruled the practice in the sort of democracies that we would want to be associated with that don\u2019t allow same-day voting and enrolment, solely because they think they can get some small electoral advantage by allowing that same-day voting and enrolment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo this is not the worst electoral bill nor the worst part that we have seen from this Government. It is the fourth without any consultation. The bulk of the provisions are minor, administrative, and supportive. We are particularly supportive of those changes in respect of the New Zealand Defence Force that I\u2019ve already mentioned. But we are not supportive of the change around clause 19, and the same-day enrolment and voting and those consequential amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022575b3e235cad4b2c90a38f0fec12edd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022575b3e235cad4b2c90a38f0fec12edd7\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022b323bb782c3b4bb09a7ac21f677ad269\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b323bb782c3b4bb09a7ac21f677ad269\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019m speaking to Part 2 of the Electoral Amendment Bill. I just want to focus a little bit, if I may, on the amendment of regulation 12\u2014that\u2019s within the Electoral Regulations 1996\u2014of course, Part 2 being consequential amendments, the other parts of our law that need to change as a result of the more substantive parts or aspects of Part 1 that we\u2019ve already discussed in some detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ELooking at regulation 12, I wanted to focus on some of the mechanics of the list of late enrolments, and specifically the timing of that, and also what it is exactly that the Electoral Commission must do in relation to the list of people who have taken advantage of the provisions of Part 1 in enrolling later than they\u2019re currently able to do. Just to be clear, when I say \u201Ctake advantage of\u201D, I don\u2019t mean that in any sort of ugly way, but rather to avail themselves of the opportunity that the bill is now going to afford to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I note that it\u2019s \u201Cas soon as practicable after polling day\u201D that the obligation applies for the Electoral Commission to send a certain list to the returning officer. We\u2019ll get to that list perhaps in a minute\u2014I can sense your excitement to do so\u2014but focussing first on this aspect of timing, as I say, as soon as practicable after polling day, I wonder if the Minister can advise, perhaps leaning heavily on his officials, noting that he is not the same Minister who was in the chair last night, whether any thought was given to another formulation of timing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor example, it might be that the obligation applies as soon as practicable after polling day but, in any case, not later than the return of the writ, or in any case, prior to either the final results being announced or the provisional results being announced. Alternatively, the Minister might offer a view as to whether there is a certain period of time that it would be ideal or desirable to have the Electoral Commission send those names. So if the Minister can address that aspect, that would be very helpful indeed, not only for the purpose of the current debate but, I suppose, to shape the understanding of the Electoral Commission, following the election, as to exactly what is expected of them, other than that reasonably vague instruction to simply do so \u201Cas soon as practicable after polling day\u201D. So that was the first thing that I was interested to raise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe second is in relation to the list of persons who will be sent in the way I\u2019ve described, and these are the persons whose names have been entered on the electoral roll for the district after writ day and by the end of polling day under various sections of the Act. I wonder if the Minister can explain why it is that the Electoral Commission wouldn\u2019t simply advise all the names of eligible electors\u2014so that would include not only those who have recently become eligible but also those who were already eligible prior to that time. It seems, perhaps, that what we\u2019re going to end up with in the regulations is an artificial distinction, given that the law, the policy behind the law, and indeed the provisions of Part 1 now establish a regime where all enrolments are to be treated the same. Indeed, all enrolment applications are to be allowed whether or not they are before writ day or indeed on polling day. So I wonder if we\u2019re going to have somewhat of an anachronism within the law whereby we\u2019re going to have a list of persons over here and list of persons over there for which there is no meaningful distinction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAlternatively, I suppose, we can look\u2014[Bell rung] Madam Chair? Excuse me; I misunderstood the timing. The other aspect I was interested to look at within that provision was whether there might be someone else who would appropriately receive that list of persons of newly enrolled electors. Those might be, I suppose, the people who already receive notification of new electoral enrolments. Members of the public who are watching this broadcast, both of them by now, might be interested to know that, actually, enrolments that are made in the course of a three-year parliamentary term are, as a matter of course, periodically\u2014I think, perhaps, on a monthly cycle, but I\u2019ll be corrected if I\u2019m wrong there, but in any case, periodically\u2014advised to the offices of sitting MPs, and that\u2019s a matter of current members of Parliament, electorate and list, I presume, being able to maintain contact with\u2014[Bell rung] Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca305aa96616463383de216138f4230f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I, first of all, before I call the member, apologise\u2014in my excitement with the content of his speech, I made an error and pushed the bell a minute early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c083765295d0479e83a6fa4fdb50e197\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Your excitement is understandable and, indeed, shared. In fact, I will excite you not much longer, Madam Chair; I\u2019ve almost finished my points\u2014if indeed I\u2019ve started them! The question was, really, just whether the Minister can advise if there\u2019s anyone else who should be receiving this information following the newly registered electors having come on board, so to speak, the electoral train leaving \u201CElection-ville Station\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe only other point was just around the point regarding New Zealand Defence Force members. Dr Nick Smith has already made the point about allowing those who are defending democracy to indeed practise it as well. I\u2019ve made that point already; so, as much as I\u2019d love to go there again, so to speak\u2014and I know others would as well\u2014I shall refrain from doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e644ad2a581e4b898e544c566c3faa06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e644ad2a581e4b898e544c566c3faa06\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Senior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b5100ea2d2c4ddb8343eacd35ead98e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a9de5a15035747fa83c27cfb5d65190e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000541\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca510b963d974460b14ee27a324c7c67\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bf933f6ad44c4b56b0530fee475369ca\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fc2b27cdd6ef47b1b26b4b07489004ab\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022897c49a0efb7404488f4a6e1cdf6246b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000543\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000544\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Electoral Amendment Bill without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000545\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002275cc75ae28c74171a970142bc397e252\u0022\u003EArms Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2dadf7e509b4be995d68a7dc1c62af2\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022b76060afdf21466395cd59b60bc8196f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b76060afdf21466395cd59b60bc8196f\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arms Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe all know why we\u2019re here today. It has been a long journey. The journey did not actually begin on 15 March 2019; it began on 30 June 1997. Almost 23 years ago, Judge Sir Thomas Thorp told us what was wrong with our firearms legislation. At that time, the Arms Act was already 14 years old. In 2020, the Arms Act 1983 is not only well out of date but dangerously out of date. Successive Governments failed to act on Thorp\u2019s recommendations, and what has been the cost of that failure? The National Party knows. The ACT Party knows. They know because former MP for Epsom, the former National police minister, the former leader of the ACT Party, the Hon John Banks, has told them. He said, following the terror attack last year, that the greatest disappointment of his political life was his failure to act after the mass murder at Aramoana in 1990. I refuse to be the former Minister approached by victims\u2019 families in 20 years\u2019 time and asked: \u201CWhy didn\u2019t you change the law, why didn\u2019t you take guns off gangs and bring in tougher penalties for gun crime?\u201D These are the questions that will haunt Simon Bridges and David Seymour instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOwning a firearm is a privilege, not a right. We need to do all we can to ensure only law-abiding citizens are able to obtain firearms licences and use firearms. Since March last year, police have seized 2,138 illegal firearms from gangs and other offenders. It\u2019s an average of 43 a week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270464aa76dce45ebad235c383677271b\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Is that all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022593b28ddaa1949f6a428db7d13283103\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Is that all? These are the guns that have been pointed at or used against police, and you say, \u201CIs that all?\u201D Shame on you, Mr Hudson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere is no point in members opposite wringing their hands over last week\u2019s news from Tauranga when a police car was riddled with bullets from a high-powered weapon. Welcome to a police officer\u2019s world. Welcome to the everyday reality of policing. I am on the side of police. I am working hard alongside the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, and others in Government to give police all the tools and the resources that they need to stay safe as they work to keep our communities safe; that includes the trial of the eagle helicopter in Christchurch, just announced this week; it includes new body armour; it includes new police on the street, soon to pass the milestone of 2,000 new police since the coalition took Government; and it includes tougher penalties for gun crime\u2014and Mr Hudson is not voting for that. It includes new powers to stop a gang member ever getting a firearms licence, which they technically can do at the moment\u2014and Mr Hudson is not supporting that. This is the true Government of law and order, not a party of cheap rhetoric like the members opposite. They ran down police numbers and ignored the Australian gangs who arrived in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the changes made at the select committee. I want to thank the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their time and their careful deliberation, especially those who turned up to the meetings. I certainly want to thank the chair who, I think, did a fantastic job under trying circumstances. Since it was introduced, more than five months ago, the legislation has been improved by the public process. The committee heard from every single submitter who asked to be heard. Their voices have made a difference. I have also worked closely and collaboratively with the Hon Ron Mark and New Zealand First to ensure that we get the best law possible. I thank them for their constructive dialogue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe improvements deliver on the bill\u2019s objectives and enhance the workability for both firearms licence holders and the police. The legislation will place greater controls over high-risk firearms and the safe use of all firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at some of the changes: licence duration. We propose firearms licences for five years\u2019 duration instead of the current 10 years. Many submitters commented that this was too short. The committee found most firearms licence holders who receive a conviction do so within the first five years. So it recommended five-year licences for first-time licence holders only. Then, for successful relicensing, it would be a 10-year licence. However, if an applicant had their previous licence revoked or let it expire, their new licence would be for five years once more. The introduction of an interim step added more security and then gives trust by allowing a longer licence period after someone has demonstrated that they are deserving of the privilege of holding a firearms licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe committee also reviewed the notice required for when police wish to inspect a firearms licence holder\u2019s storage or a shooting club\u2019s firearm storage. It is recommended this should be at least seven days\u2019 notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe committee also clarified that temporary transfer of firearms for less than 30 days would not require an update to the registry unless they are pistols, restricted weapons, prohibited firearms, or prohibited magazines. This ensures that when firearms licence holders lend another licence holder their firearm, or leave their firearm temporarily in the care of another licence holder while travelling, they are not creating an overly burdensome compliance system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere are other technical changes. This includes a recommendation from the Privacy Commissioner that access to the firearms registry be clarified so that the only reason to access is to assist agencies in their functions relating to arms. For example, Customs\u2019 access and use would be around managing the import of firearms into New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThere were also changes recommended to the provisions relating to health practitioners. These provisions are about keeping people safe during times of vulnerability. The committee has clarified the definition of health practitioner to ensure that only appropriate health professionals have to consider informing police of a concern with a patient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EFor the first time, the fit and proper person test for a firearms licence explicitly excludes gang members, associates, or members of an organised criminal group\u2014and that party isn\u2019t voting for that. Why is the Opposition trying to block this? They like to shoot off their mouths, but do nothing about the actual criminal shooters. Changes made by the committee also give police the power to consider whether someone applying for a licence has had restraining orders made against them. The use of firearms in family harm is an indictment in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EDealers: the committee clarified the activities that would now require a dealer\u2019s licence. It is recommended that the bill state that a dealer\u2019s licence is required for people engaged in lending, hiring, selling, or supplying firearms as a commercial activity central to their business. The committee also recommended that members of shooting clubs selling firearms for the benefit of the club, and hunting guides operating on a small scale, be exempt from the dealer regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESeveral changes and clarifications have been recommended for the certification of shooting clubs and shooting ranges. This includes removing the requirement for ranges to have public liability insurance, lengthening the time frame for obtaining certification, and clarifying that a range officer, not a manager, must be on duty when a range is in use. This better reflects many shooting clubs\u2019 and shooting ranges\u2019 practice and terminology. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe changes we are looking to implement in this legislation have been worked on assiduously over the past few months. But, in reality, there is at least 23 years of knowledge and analysis behind them. As mentioned, John Banks himself said his greatest regret as Minister of Police was not being able to change firearms legislation. Stand for something for a change, Mr Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWe have taken the time to do a sense check on this bill. I am pleased with the work that the officials, most MPs, and communities have put into the creation of a better firearms system. A UMR poll in September found 70 percent of people supported strengthening our firearms laws; 16 percent were opposed. In Canterbury, a staggering 81 percent of people are calling for tougher gang laws. It is up to us as Government to listen to the voices of our communities, to take into account the health and safety and wellbeing of the good men and women of our police service who are out their every single day facing this threat, and to balance the lawful use of firearms against the harm they do in the wrong hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill that is long overdue, and it\u2019s an absolute privilege and a pleasure to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022 data-id=\u00225183371d697b447983109dd3608edc16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225183371d697b447983109dd3608edc16\u0022\u003EBRETT HUDSON (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s actually quite rich that we have a Minister leading a bill that is focused almost entirely on greater cost, regulation, and rules on people that already follow the law, and he\u2019s prioritising that ahead of things like firearms prohibition orders that would actually do something, giving police a genuine additional tool to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, and particularly gang member criminals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Police has been gazing at his navel for over two years now on that initiative. We campaigned on it in 2017. We\u2019ve had a bill in the members\u2019 ballot. It\u2019s now been drawn for a second time. The Minister and his colleagues voted it down in 2018 and they\u2019ve denied leave for that measure to be brought forward. Over two years later, he\u2019s still wondering what he might or might not do about it, but he\u2019s very quick to add cost and regulation on members of New Zealand society that do not break the law and do not represent a risk to public safety, while doing basically nothing about those that do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, when this bill was introduced and had its first reading, we made it very clear that we opposed it for that very reason: the very reason that it does nothing about genuine criminal activity in gangs and does everything about layering cost, administrative burden, and regulation on people that already follow the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, the backdrop to the committee considering this bill, particularly in its latter stages of consideration, was a New Zealand with a proliferation of gang tension and violence, often involving firearms. Just in the space of two or three weeks: gun shots in Ruat\u014Dria; gun shots in Napier at a health centre; a shotgun blast in Taradale, which almost hit a young infant in a car seat; and pistol crime shots in Tauranga, with semi-automatics used, a triple homicide\u2014or two homicides: one double and a single homicide there. Of course, a suspect also lost his life while seeking to evade police. This is the backdrop in which we were considering this bill. What does the bill do about those sorts of crimes? Absolutely nothing\u2014it does absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the thing\u2014here\u2019s the thing\u2014the Minister doesn\u2019t want to accept, which is the evidence\u2014and this actually strikes to the registry too. He and the Prime Minister have repeatedly said, \u201CWe\u2019ll keep guns out of the hands of criminals.\u201D Well, that\u2019s certainly not the evidence that was presented to the committee in this instance, and, in the select committee inquiry of 2016-17, the evidence out of Australia\u2014which has had a registry for many a year\u2014was that in the case of homicides, in 90 percent of those involving firearms, the firearms are not registered. So the register is not keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals. To his point about the provisions in this bill about how gang members can be denied a licence, well, just under 90 percent of firearms offences in Australia\u2014that evidence showed us\u2014are committed by people who don\u2019t have a licence. So putting tougher licence provisions on people that follow the law is going to do nothing at all for those that don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EIt was an absolute opportunity missed. We could have added firearms prohibition orders to this bill in committee, the right place for consideration of serious policy. But the Minister instead wanted to do a bit more navel gazing and had some sort of consultation thing that ran to about 13 January\u2014still plenty of time to have taken that and placed it in the bill; he chose not to. He chose not to add provisions to the bill that would have targeted genuine criminal activity and gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EInstead, what he did do, of course, was he did add greater regulation-making power by seeking to drop on the Finance and Expenditure Committee a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), SOP 408, seeking to ban a couple more firearms types that he and the Police had missed the first time around. Now, that actually, arguably, is a good thing. The committee is the right place to discuss and debate that. But one of the things it did\u2014perhaps the most egregious part of that SOP\u2014was, right at the very end, it enhanced the regulation-making power that was placed in there in April, permitting the Government, through their advisers, Police\u2014or Police through the Government\u2014to ban pretty much any firearm that they might want to at any time. In fact, it goes further, because the way it seeks to enhance that power is to limit what can\u2019t be banned. So it\u2019s actually making a far too powerful regulation-making power even worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAlong the way, though, what the committee was expected to do, and to report on, was to make life a bit tougher for those who already follow the law. For instance, clubs and ranges\u2014which the regulatory impact statement from officials showed very clearly have no history in New Zealand of a problem at all\u2014suddenly are expected to have administrative processes and burden placed upon them\u2014on groups, small groups, of volunteers\u2014that threaten, in some cases, the very existence of those clubs and ranges. The worst point of all about that is that they are the safest areas for firearms use in the country. They are already regulated by rules of shooting bodies, because most of them\u2014not all of them, but most of them\u2014participate in some sort of sports shooting activity. It could be pistol, it could be 3-gun, it used to\u2014until the law changed\u2014be service rifle, and others. But none the less, those clubs and ranges are the best managed and the best regulated through their club arrangements. Instead, the Government just wants to layer more on them. It\u2019s not going to make anyone safer\u2014it\u2019s not\u2014because people aren\u2019t unsafe in those environments in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EAlong the way, of course, we looked at the fit and proper person test, and there was this desire to have proactive notification. We discovered in the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014I won\u2019t say \u201Cquite by accident\u201D, but we discovered in the committee\u2014that such already exists. It exists under the Health Information Privacy Code, which already permits health practitioners to notify the police if they are concerned about a serious threat to the life of\u2014in this case\u2014the firearms holder, to the public safety, or to the lives of others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThere are two parts they have changed. One is actually good, which I\u2019ll start with, and one is not so good. The part that they\u2019ve changed which is really good is that it, effectively, creates an indemnity from prosecution for that health practitioner, which we\u2019re told does not exist under the code and existing legislation. That\u2019s a good thing. It gives an additional sense of protection to the practitioner that if they are discharging their duty well, they are not going to face prosecution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EBut the bad part is that it changes the threshold for notification. It actually reduces it down, and neither the Government directly nor their advisers could give a proper justification to the committee as to why that was necessary. We suggested that they could take the threshold words as currently exist under that code, bring them into the legislation, wrap around that protection, and have a very, very solid, proactive notification system and one that we would have no problem at all supporting. But they chose not to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWith regard to the registry\u2014as I have touched upon\u2014which we\u2019re told consistently will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the evidence from overseas shows it simply won\u2019t do that, and in some jurisdictions it has shown to be so difficult to try to implement and so costly that they\u2019ve actually pulled it out. But in the places where it does remain, we have seen the evidence that it simply doesn\u2019t deliver on that objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re not opposed ideologically to having a registry, but what we say and maintain is that it\u2019s got to deliver a practical and useful objective that is measurable and\u2014most of all\u2014achievable. With the repeated claim from this Government that this is about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, we know through the evidence it cannot do that. We cannot support it on that basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EWe have maintained, since April, that there should be exemptions allowed for the legitimate use of now prohibited firearms. Pest control is one, and we thought we were going to get a regime for pest control in the first bill in 2019, but that didn\u2019t happen. Despite submissions on this, it wasn\u2019t discussed in the select committee this time. Instead, the police and the Government have put through a regulation which flies in the face of what they have set up in the first place. They said that they were going to stop people having faux companies claiming to be pest controllers to work around the law, but they\u2019re now encouraging farmers to do exactly that. We don\u2019t think that\u2019s the right way to deal with this sort of policy, and that should have been in the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003ESports shooters\u2014as I\u2019ve said, those clubs and ranges are the safest place for the use of firearms in New Zealand. There is a legitimate use for sports shooting. There should be an allowed exemption, specifically for those that affiliate to genuine international bodies that hold genuine international competitions and where the members here are prepared to affiliate to a body that has suitable regulations, such as Pistol New Zealand, which is highly regarded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003EThis was an opportunity to actually create a decent bill that would tackle crime, not the innocent. Regrettably, the Government has chosen not to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7b67b4ca0b046a9ba941991f17e734a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7b67b4ca0b046a9ba941991f17e734a\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak in support of the Arms Legislation Bill, and I wish to begin my speech with thanks. Thanks to the members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, who worked hard on this bill, including many of the members of the Opposition, who engaged very constructively with it, but especially the members of the Government. I\u2019d like to thank the submitters who put in submissions\u2014all 3,527 of them\u2014and I would especially like to thank the 381 submitters that we heard in person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think we sat for 41 hours on this particular bill. I missed a few hours of that because we had simultaneous subcommittee meetings running, but other than that, I heard all the submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere was some very strong representation from the gun lobby\u2014from people in support of guns\u2014and, in fact, some really extreme views. One submission blamed the Prime Minister for the massacre in Christchurch. It said that the Prime Minister at the time that the licence was issued to the shooter was the person responsible, and then said, \u201CIt disgusts me that the Prime Minister has accepted no responsibility herself.\u201D It was an astonishing claim, and one that I felt just undermined the submission entirely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAnother submission said that the real problem was that the bill all went wrong in the preamble and that \u201Cowning firearms is a right\u201D. It never really has been in New Zealand. Then it went on to complain that \u201CNew Zealand law is being made compliant with the United Nations treaty\u201D and it used the word \u201Cglobalists\u201D\u2014the \u201Cglobalists\u201D that signify someone is speaking from an alt-right perspective. That is someone who wanted guns in this country and did not want this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think the submission that worried me the most was the person opposing this bill who said that the real problem was State control\u2014it was not an issue of safety, but there was an issue of increasing State control over the people, comparing New Zealand to Venezuela, Russia, China, and Germany in 1933. This person went on. He said, \u201CI am asking as a young New Zealander, don\u2019t set us down this path to subjugation. This route will only end in tears one way or the other, and given our current leadership, that ending is likely to be with the words \u2018Arbeit macht frei\u2019.\u201D\u2014what an extraordinary thing to say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EExtraordinary claims like that require extraordinary evidence\u2014extraordinary evidence that there is subjugation and a lack of freedom in this country. I would like to point out that today, the news came out that the Cato Institute has ranked New Zealand in terms of freedom in the world, and where has it ranked New Zealand? At number one. There is no evidence to support some of these extraordinary claims made by the gun lobby. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0f003348ee248b39fc9c883047c5508\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll take us backwards\u2014you\u2019ll take us backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc6a70b76f1349d59f9708da86dc26e3\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, there were many, many\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291037741befc419c8f6b065a9fd1f0c2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry. Ms Willis, I wonder if you wouldn\u2019t mind leaving the Speaker out of the discussion. Thank you. Sorry, Dr Russell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a384509e31447f28d976bb30da8be2d\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: There were many, many other representations from people opposing this bill, very strongly worded, from gun enthusiasts and gun clubs\u2014people who brought up some objections to the bill. Some of them were very, very strongly worded, but they made some good points. For example, with respect to gun licences, they said, \u201CCome on, if someone has proved themselves, do we really need to go through the process every five years?\u201D, and that is why, as a committee, we came back with a recommendation that after you\u2019ve proved yourself for the first five years of your licence, then we\u2019d go to a 10-year licence. That was a reasonable compromise that we took because of what submitters said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESubmitters said that, actually, it was unfair that police could turn up with no notice and inspect the place where guns were being kept. As a committee, we agreed, and we\u2019ve come up with, I think, the really good idea that there has to be seven days\u2019 notice. That\u2019s sitting in this bill, and that is because of people who came and made submissions, and we listened to those submissions and made a change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe have said that if a person is lending a firearm, then that does not have to be recorded on the register straight away; instead, we\u2019ve gone for 30 days. If you lend a firearm to someone or give it to someone, then it must be recorded in the register after 30 days, and why that length of time? Well, that means that someone has got enough time to lend a shotgun to a mate for a hunting trip and it doesn\u2019t need to hit the register. So, again, a perfectly reasonable compromise there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn the bill as drafted, the bill had said that we needed a range \u201Cmanager\u201D on duty at ranges at all times. Now, a \u201Cmanager\u201D implies a certain level of control over club activities, and lots of people belonging to gun clubs which operated ranges pointed out that under their rules, they typically have a safety officer on duty whenever the range is being used. If we reflected that\u2014having a safety officer\u2014then that would capture the existing good process and would work perfectly well. So we\u2019ve made that change in the bill\u2014and so on and so on. Right through the bill, where good suggestions have been made, however strongly worded, we have taken up those suggestions to make this bill work better. So that robust engagement has worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe did not accept reinstating MSSAs\u2014or military-style semi-automatics. People came up with two reasons for them. One was pest control, but we\u2019ve worked out a perfectly good way of managing genuine needs for pest control, not just somebody who wants to go and shoot a few bunnies over the back of the farm on occasion. The other reason was for sports. People felt that there was a justification for having MSSAs for shooting sports. We pointed out\u2014many of us pointed out\u2014that it wasn\u2019t exactly an Olympic or a Commonwealth sport; it was actually quite a minority sport. So shooting is a Commonwealth or Olympic sport, but not this particular discipline. And they said, \u201CWell, actually, it was under consideration for the Olympics.\u201D, but that turns out not to be the case. In fact, the four proposed new sports for the 2024 Olympics are break-dancing, sports climbing, skateboarding, and surfing. So that is not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo why put this bill in place? Because people want it\u2014people like Rural Women New Zealand. Rural Women New Zealand, who deal with firearms all the time, are strongly in support of this bill. They surveyed their membership, and 83 percent of the members of Rural Women New Zealand agree with the purpose of this bill; 71 percent agree that there should be a registry for guns, for firearms. They agreed that licensed clubs and shooting ranges should be regulated. In other words, this body of women with real standing from the rural community support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Suicide Mortality Review Committee supports this bill. Why? Because, and I quote, \u201CThere is strong evidence that more restrictive gun laws are associated with lower rates of suicide involving firearms [and] studies from Australia have found that the introduction of the 1996 National Firearms Agreement \u2026 was associated with a reduction in firearms and total suicide rates\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists echoed the Suicide Mortality Review Committee that there were 860 firearm deaths over the 15 or so years between 2000 and 2015\u201454 a year, on average. About 75 percent of those firearms deaths are suicides. Better control of firearms will reduce our suicide rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Public Health Association of New Zealand supported having a five-year licence. Why? Because data shows that of those aged 16 to 19 when first issued with a firearms licence, 31 percent had been convicted of an offence by the time they were 20. By the time they were 30, 45 percent of them had been convicted of an offence. That five-year period is worth having.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAnd why should we support this bill? The words of someone who calls themselves an ordinary citizen, a parent, a grandparent. This person said\u2014and, actually, I can\u2019t tell whether this is a man or a woman. It just says, \u201CI have been moved to make this submission because I am concerned that the opposition to the proposals comes largely from arms item-holders.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s firearms holders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhile the view of all affected parties is important, as in all legislation, this legislation also needs to consider the view of New Zealanders who are not firearms holders\u2014the majority of the population. And what is that view? Well, we have that view from survey research. We know that 70 percent of New Zealanders support strengthening New Zealand\u2019s existing gun laws. The great majority of New Zealanders support this bill. We have made sensible moves in response to the submissions we have received, but we have retained the register. We have retained greater control over firearms. We retained the core of this bill: that owning and using firearms is a privilege, not a right, and it\u2019s a privilege we extend to our law-abiding citizens. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u002214ff4c6f41c04b3c89433a3dcf64f109\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214ff4c6f41c04b3c89433a3dcf64f109\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to take a call in this very important bill this evening. I\u2019m from a partly rural electorate, and a farmer myself, and, indeed, a keen hunter, and I\u2019ve been brought up around firearms since I was very, very young. Indeed, I\u2019m a licensed gun-holder, and now I\u2019m enjoying educating my children about the safety of a firearm. Typically, farmers in New Zealand have a .22 rifle or a shotgun, and they may have more than that, but that\u2019s typically what farmers have for pest control. I\u2019m curious with this bill this evening\u2014that it goes further in a lot of aspects than we on this side of the House are comfortable with, and I wish to address those this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhile the Government talks positively about a firearms register, I think what they don\u2019t quite realise is that it\u2019s failed in Canada. It cost over a billion dollars\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022810033ac3a124d6081ede0952bb9eda0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Two billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a542cc1951ec4f38b3f14ce76ebd09c0\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014two billion, Mr Seymour mentions\u2014and the Canadian authorities have backed away from it. What we hear from the Government this evening is that they seem to believe that a register is going to reduce criminal activity. Well, just have a look across the Tasman, over in Australia. For 90 percent of criminal activity involving firearms, those weapons are not in a register. So this register is going to be extremely costly, and I have some real grave\u2014what\u2019s the word?\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3122d9371f44db5818fe763c029b6fb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f230e581fb344ad8a8e66971db413123\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014concerns that this register will cost an absolute arm and a leg and more and won\u2019t stop criminal activity. Also, the licence time frame, from 10 years to five years\u2014well, we have thrashed that out hard in the select committee, and we know that that is going to cost more for law-abiding gun owners than it does currently now. That is a concern that we raised in the select committee process, but often that fell on deaf ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI want to also talk, as I did in my introductory remarks, about pest control. That is a massive issue for rural communities and farmers, and we pushed hard in the select committee to say that, surely, farmers and their employees, if they are licensed firearm owners, should be allowed to go out and exterminate possums, rabbits, wallabies\u2014the list goes on\u2014Canadian geese, deer that are ravaging a crop. The Government seemed to sit through the submissions with very much earmuffs on, and then they\u2019ve come up with this sort of a workaround whereby they are now proposing in regulation to allow farmers to set up a commercial pest control company. We think that while that may indeed work, it is a workaround that has come too late and should indeed have been in the primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThen we come to something that is extremely topical, and that is gangs that are growing in this country\u20141,600 more patched members under this Government\u2019s watch. It was curious to hear Stuart Nash, the Minister of Police, stand up and be holier than thou and say, \u201CWe\u2019re doing all these wonderful things.\u201D, and yet gangs are running rampant in his electorate. The Government once again have their earmuffs on with our proposal of a firearms prohibition order, which will get tougher on criminal activity that involves firearms, and also on gangs. I know that the Greens are against this, and they have stopped the Government being tougher on criminal activity involving gangs and firearms. That is a crying shame, and that is playing out in communities right now, whether it\u2019s in Hawke\u2019s Bay, whether it\u2019s in Tauranga, or whether it\u2019s in other communities around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226be1f6c8ee7749dd8c0ca127b05f2258\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re hurting my ears.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf6c15b1d47d43eeb62262b6dfbd60f4\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: So what is good about the firearms prohibition order\u2014Clare Curran won\u2019t need to put up with me too much longer; she\u2019ll be leaving this place, like me, and I wish her well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is exciting is that Mr Hudson here, our police spokesman, has had the luckiest day in his political life in this place. He has had, last week, the Arms (Firearms Prohibition Orders) Amendment Bill (No 2) drawn out of the biscuit tin. So what is going to happen now with the votes in the Parliament? Are New Zealand First going to stand up and support Mr Hudson\u2019s bill to get tough on gangs? They didn\u2019t the last time. We\u2019ve tabled it numerous times over the last 12 to 18 months. It\u2019s been voted down. Now it\u2019s going to come into this House. Mr Hudson has got a real opportunity to stand up on behalf of New Zealanders that are worried about their safety in their own homes, with gangs running rampant under this Government\u20141,600 more gang members under this soft-on-crime Government is a hell of an embarrassment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat is also a concern to us are these regulations involving clubs and ranges that are going to be burdensome. Also, when we think about Pistol New Zealand\u2014and they work with the rifle guys, the clubs that are involved with shotguns, and, of course, the pistols called 3-gun, and that has a strong set of rules. They came in and made very passionate submissions to the select committee and said that we are, effectively, an international body. So if someone abides by the 3-gun rules that are common throughout the world, why on earth would you want to be going and regulating the hell out of these 3-gun clubs? That is something that we can\u2019t fathom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo in summary, we have some concerns. If we are lucky enough to be in Government after 19 September, we will be making the necessary changes. We came into the select committee process and said, \u201CWe think that this bill should be strengthened with 13 changes.\u201D We\u2019ve been lucky enough to get two of those changes accepted. We\u2019ll be fighting through the select committee process, with Supplementary Order Papers, to see if New Zealand First can come around to our way of thinking and get a hell of a lot tougher on these gangs. There is an opportunity for the Parliament to send a message right now to gangs that we\u2019ve had enough. We want to crack down on them, and yet, unfortunately, our speeches, our messages, have been falling on deaf ears. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00223eace87d16f041bbae41fb973e518867\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eace87d16f041bbae41fb973e518867\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on the Arms Legislation Bill. Can I acknowledge that 15 March 2018 absolutely changed this country in terms of what took place down in Christchurch, and it required real leadership, and we got that through our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, who stepped up and made a commitment to making our communities a lot safer\u2014of course, with the Minister himself, and I want to acknowledge the work that the Minister Stu Nash has done in bringing this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. You see, I come from a rural community. I\u2019m proud to be a member representing Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti and the Tai R\u0101whiti and Hastings, and, yes, many of my constituents are farmers as well as rural people. They too have said they want a safe community\u2014and this is what this bill is addressing. It\u2019s acknowledging the rightful use of guns; they are acknowledging that for many of my community who have raised up and used the weapons and the guns safely. But it\u2019s around removing guns from those that commit harm, and this is what this bill is attempting to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ESo I do want to acknowledge the work of the select committee in bringing a much better bill. Essentially, the significant change that the committee has recommended and the Minister addressed in his opening speech is the introduction of a firearms register. Who would argue with that? It also talks about the terms of the firearms licences. We also talk about the amendment to the fit and proper person criteria, to ensure that those that are owning a gun are both fit and proper, and, of course, it creates new offences and penalties. The bill, ultimately, helps keep guns out of criminals\u2019 hands. It\u2019s a simple bill. I think all members of this House should support it. I commend it to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00223d961c7803b44caca0e1ef5ededc09e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d961c7803b44caca0e1ef5ededc09e6\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak on the Arms Legislation Bill at this, the second reading. I did not have the benefit of attending the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I acknowledge that others in the House spent much more time than me, therefore, considering those particular submissions. But I do want to place on record that I\u2019ve received a large volume of correspondence and had many discussions with constituents in my electorate on this and, indeed, other firearms law - related matters. I promised those constituents that I would consider the Government\u2019s proposals in good faith and arrive at a conclusion, along with my colleagues in the caucus of the National Party, that reflected what we thought would be in the best interests of New Zealanders and their safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWith that background, I have, of course, considered, again, along with fellow members of the National Party caucus, a couple of key distinctions when considering the bill. One is the provisions that are in the bill, and one is the provisions that are not in the bill but might be usefully added. I\u2019m foreshadowing a number of conditions of National Party support that have been highlighted and, indeed, explained pretty clearly, I think, already by our police spokesperson, Brett Hudson. We make a distinction, too, between that which looks good and that which does good. Of course, it\u2019s possible for a thing to do both, but in the case of some of the provisions of this bill, it appears clear that the intentions and, indeed, as I say, the look of the thing may be good, but the effect is not necessarily one that is beneficial overall for the purposes of maintaining the safety of our population\u2014firearms owners and others alike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo it is that I turn my attention to the conditions that we\u2019ve set out. Alternatively, we might think of these as proposals to change the law for the better, such that the National Party would be in a position to be able to support them. Before I do, I\u2019d like to give an example of what I meant by the difference between that which looks good and that which does good. A spreadsheet isn\u2019t going to stop a bullet, obviously, unless it\u2019s particularly long and printed out and particularly cleverly placed at the time, and so it is that the firearms register proposal should be seen as a measure that is potentially useful but in practice may fall short of the mark for which it is intended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ELooking, then, at the first of the conditions that the National Party has set out by way of proposed changes: the first is to require that police be notified of the existence of a club or range. This seems to me a very sensible, practical approach, understanding and recognising the value that clubs, as collections of firearms users\u2014indeed, members of the club\u2014are able to provide in assisting the State to understand the potential dangers, I suppose, of any of its members and, of course, conversely, to frame the proposition in a more positive light, the members who are clearly law-abiding, honest, hard-working folk, notwithstanding that they enjoy the activity of shooting in a controlled and safe environment from time to time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to overstate the case, but I believe there\u2019s an ideological difference between the two sides of the House in this matter: comparing the approach whereby, on the one hand, we favour bringing on board the clubs, communities of interest within our communities more broadly, and expecting and hoping that we would be able to gain some value from understanding on the ground what the situation is with regard to members, and on the other hand, and across the side of the House that is currently in Government, a belief, rather, in the power of the State to understand and to record and to be able to control better than the citizenry can its members, and to understand the dangers that are posed. For that reason, I contrast directly the proposal by the Government in relation to creating a register, which would be envisaged to be omniscient and therefore can be regarded as worthy of omnipotence, as compared with we on this side of the House, who believe that it\u2019s more valuable to be able to understand from a practical perspective what those who belong to these clubs are actually all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA couple of other matters, and these are of particular moment to those in the rural parts of the Helensville electorate, and I make no apology for emphasising their advocacy to me in particular. One is exemptions for those involved in pest control, a practical matter in some parts of New Zealand, as I say, including the part of New Zealand that I\u2019m privileged to represent currently, and also exemptions for those involved in sport shooting, those exhibiting the discipline and the rigour of that particular activity, whether they represent a region, perhaps, of New Zealand or New Zealand itself on the world stage, or perhaps take a less ambitious approach but, none the less, a disciplined approach and, indeed, a safe approach\u2014the safety being the element that I\u2019d really like to emphasise in relation to those involved in sport shooting. Again, I think, as with the pest control, we have a very good argument that has been made through a number of submissions to the select committee process and by way of approach to many members of Parliament, and I support those exemptions as a very sensible, practical measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve already mentioned an ideological difficulty with the register, but more importantly, perhaps, in practice, the reality is that what we will trade off for the intended benefits of having such a register is a false sense of security. Of course, the information in such a document is only going to be as good as each data point within it, in the same way that a chain is obviously only as strong as its weakest link, and other similar metaphors. And so it is\u2014and I\u2019ll sanitise the expression somewhat, but it\u2019s a case of \u201Cstuff in, stuff out.\u201D Obviously, if we\u2019re not fully able to rely upon a register as being 100 percent accurate, then it will be of limited value accordingly, notwithstanding the fact that we would of course like instinctively to be able to rely upon its contents absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA related point, although one, I concede, probably of lesser strength, is that the existence of a large amount of data held by the State is, of course\u2014in this case, data that\u2019s very valuable, in particular to the personal security of those who are on it\u2014liable to be lost, is liable to be breached or leaked or somehow otherwise not controlled in the way that we would expect. So the privacy, but again, as I say, probably more importantly the security of those on the register is something for which we should have grave concerns, and I do hope that if the Government is successful in passing the law, including the register, every effort will be made to protect those whose names are on it against the loss, inadvertent or malicious, of that data, because that would represent one of the most serious data breaches, and this country has not been immune from those from various Government systems. It seems inevitable, in fact. I hope to be proven wrong on this point in relation to the firearms register that is being proposed. That would be a dark day indeed for New Zealand, providing, as it would, a veritable shopping list for those who would do ill to others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe regulation powers within the bill that the Office of the Clerk, I understand, recommended the removal of: from a constitutional point of view, the desire for executive exigency I don\u2019t think is strong enough to outweigh the desirability of lawmaking that is more robust simply than providing for regulations in such key areas as this. The Parliament has proven, for better or worse, that it is capable of passing laws in very short order in relation to this space, and so it could surely do the same again in future, whereby the subject of the regulations, as envisaged by the bill at the moment, could, in fact, be the matter of Parliament made law, now and in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe requirement for practitioners to notify police if they sense that there is a threat to individual or public safety: again, very well-meaning, but going back to that crucial distinction between that which looks good and that which does good, I think it\u2019s necessary we turn our mind to the possibility of an unintended consequence whereby a person, perhaps who is a firearms owner and perhaps has some sort of mental health difficulty, might feel a chilling effect whereby they are less forthright about coming forward about the difficulties they are facing. So the National Party proposal is to strengthen that to require in particular urgent situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002293800882533e45018718a06f4c873bc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293800882533e45018718a06f4c873bc7\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand and speak on the Arms Legislation Bill, having just read the select committee report. I unfortunately wasn\u2019t able to sit on the Finance and Expenditure Committee hearings for this legislation, but I was involved with members across the House in the urgent and timely response that we had after the terrorist attack on 15 March, where we heard from a huge range of the general public and those who were immediately impacted, and stakeholders from the gun sector and otherwise, about the reforms that were proposed in tranche one. I want to extend the Green Party\u2019s thanks to those from across the House who\u2019ve engaged in this process so constructively, particularly to the honourable Minister Stuart Nash for his work in leading this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat we are happiest with in this Arms Legislation Bill, tranche two of these reforms, is the online registry. It is, of course, a privilege to own a gun in this country. We aren\u2019t the likes of America, where it is enshrined in a constitution. In much the same way, I think, that many New Zealanders would think that it isn\u2019t necessarily a right to own and utilise or operate a vehicle, that same approach I think we should be applying to guns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo it is the case that what we\u2019re proposing here in the Arms Legislation Bill is a register that has some similarities with a motor vehicles register as operated by the New Zealand Transport Agency. I would note that there\u2019s been a number of those who have seemed to oppose it because of the seeming cost or administrative burden or otherwise that they\u2019re talking about, but as far as I\u2019m concerned, if you were to follow the input from those who have experience within police organisations\u2014in fact, those who were in Parliament in the 1990s around the response that we had to Aramoana and the tragedy therein, and those who responded to the 1997 Thorp report. At this point in time, it\u2019s approximated that we have around 1.5 million guns in New Zealand, but it\u2019s impossible to know because we don\u2019t have a gun registry. If we were in 1997, in response to the Thorp report, as was recommended, to have implemented the gun registry, we might have a grasp on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I just really want to reach across the aisle and speak to the point that was raised by my colleague Chris Penk, who stated that limited data is of limited value. Look, we agree with that, but in that same vein of thought, it is really important to recognise that the more time that we allow for the accumulation of that data, the greater value it offers for solving crimes, for pre-empting and stopping crimes from happening in the first place, and had we done this over 20 years ago, then we may be in a much better position than we are now with the unknown 1.5 million - odd guns out there at present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important as well to speak to the changes that have been put forward around licensing and also around the fit and proper person criteria. I find it quite interesting that the Opposition seems to oppose the notion of there being checks and balances, or, rather, the notification of people who have mental ill health. I would state that the Greens are often the ones who are speaking about the stigmatisation of those with mental ill health, but on this point, in particular, I find the inconsistency fascinating in that the National Party seems to be unhappy with the notification of something like mental ill health but is really happy to talk about people\u2019s connections to the likes of organised gangs or otherwise. Surely, we should be applying the same tests to the both of them\u2014surely, we should be applying the same tests to the both of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also want to speak to what has been raised by a number of members throughout the process that we have gone through, and I want to actually applaud the Opposition for their work constructively with the Government on passing the first tranche of gun regulation and changes. I also really want to applaud the frontbencher for the Nats the Hon Judith Collins, who at the point in time, post - 15 March, said, and I quote, \u201CBugger off!\u201D to the gun lobby, and said at that point in time that she thought, if my understanding is correct, that a gun register is essential. So I am really interested to hear what that former Minister has to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also think that it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f6829a59864107b95e8e67d29a4f0a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And Chris Bishop?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d13a3052074f7d847ea3ce69e54328\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it is going to be really interesting to hear from other members, such as Chris Bishop about his position, because it seems to have ebbed and flowed. I do wonder who has been in his ear, and I\u2019d love to hear his rationale for now falling in behind the rank and file of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also the case that this legislation, as proposed and as has gone through the Finance and Expenditure Committee, creates new offences and penalties. This is something that the Greens take really seriously, when we\u2019re talking about creating those new offences and penalties: that, on balance, when it comes to the real challenge of making sure that our communities are safer and that we are regulating effectively, that we have struck that balance here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThere are a few bits and pieces that we look forward to continuing work with, with our Government partners, and hope that there is continued constructive engagement from the Opposition. I\u2019m looking forward to the committee of the whole House stage and to eventually passing this bill in its full and final form, creating that registry that should have been created well over 20 years ago, and putting a few things right. The Green Party is proud to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002201075cc3c9fe44ee92c6cfd3f62e86be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201075cc3c9fe44ee92c6cfd3f62e86be\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member who just resumed her seat, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, in her speech imputed improper motives to another member Chris Bishop for the positions he takes. Now, in Standing Order 120, I think, it is very clear that that\u2019s unparliamentary, and I think she should withdraw and apologise for that. I find it quite offensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddc1186799484d83a1d3706f3f28a641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddc1186799484d83a1d3706f3f28a641\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t take that inference from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269dfca7043f54684b07567a690e24f62\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Madam Speaker, she said that his position had changed inexplicably and she wondered who had been in his ear. I think that\u2019s quite an improper inference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022760fca25cb3e43d2a513be34342cf3c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022760fca25cb3e43d2a513be34342cf3c5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not unparliamentary. I think if you\u2019re\u2014there\u2019s a different type of influence. Being persuaded by something, that\u2019s different than being influenced, in the way that the Standing Orders refer to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u002203b53a31253a430e8b4d4d493c8b1428\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203b53a31253a430e8b4d4d493c8b1428\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. My word, I have reached the pinnacle of my political career, when I, a boomer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb1380a77df545c6bc01c83a941ef803\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s just beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294d4d21f75e44b3d80264d7882f3bfea\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, actually, the member is quite right, it is only just beginning; I would have thought, halfway\u2014when I, a mere boomer, am praised by the great Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, my word! Am I good or what? So thank you so much, Miss Swarbrick. I take your praise\u2014with a grain of salt, but I take every bit of praise I can get, because I am not so proud that I can disdain any compliment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s get back to business, shall we? We supported, wholeheartedly, the first tranche of work on this, and we are finding ourselves disappointed to have to say that, actually, the second tranche, this bill, has not come up to the mark that we would expect. I have been, like many other MPs, spoken to by many constituents, and my constituents know that I always take their advice and then I make my own mind up. I am fully in support of the first piece of legislation that we passed. This legislation, however, does have some issues that I think could be addressed, hopefully in the committee of the whole House, but which the current bill is not actually addressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of those is the issue around a firearms register. I don\u2019t have a problem with the concept at all, and I know the National Party doesn\u2019t have a problem at all with the concept of a firearms register. The issue is in its implementation and the fact that it will only be a register of firearms of those people who legally own their firearms and who therefore put their firearms or their names forward to be included. If this Government that we\u2019re dealing with on the other side of the House was so concerned about the illegal use of firearms, then they would have been adopting the firearm prohibition orders that our party tried to bring in when we were in Government and couldn\u2019t get enough support in Parliament to get that done, because parties that we relied on to work with us on that would not support it. What these firearm prohibition orders do is, if someone is a gang or organised crime member and they have access to firearms or they have some connections with them, then they are in a position where they can\u2019t hold firearms licences and own firearms\u2014not legally anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe have a situation in New Zealand where we have a lot of gang members, and they seem to have been growing: about 15\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efd6e2a7b18e4b56ba27c88d31139a37\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: 1,600.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249e6044c320a44e0b1e012c2316d6823\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u20141,600 extra gang members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed5bd63b532e418f897e786b7517eb02\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Last 2\u00BD years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a22aabb0054f028f44335bdb7574f5\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014just in the last 2\u00BD years. And what that tells us is that they\u2019re growing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4a6f7cfe1534d149884cb65c78564bb\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: That was the year of delivery, all right!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b58411cad0441d6823351b89474c676\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in the year of delivery, under the current Government. How many of these 1,600 extra\u2014I think we\u2019ve now got about 10,000 gang members in New Zealand, something like that? About as many as we have cells for them. About 10,000 people are not going to voluntarily put their hands up to owning firearms that they\u2019ve stolen or they\u2019ve bought on the black market or they\u2019ve come by in some other way. They\u2019re not going to do that. It\u2019s going to be Joe and Janet Farmer who are going to tell the police which firearms they\u2019ve got. And what we know is that registers\u2014electronic registers, hardcopy registers; though this would be electronic\u2014can be hacked, can be accessed by people who are criminals, who are involved in organised crime, and who will have then a list of the law-abiding people who have firearms, and what firearms they have. And that is, I think, a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t have a problem with the concept of a register, because we understand that these are dangerous weapons whose purpose is to kill. We understand that. But we also understand that the people who will be complying with the law are those who always comply with the law, and that the people that we\u2019re most concerned about are the people who almost never comply with the law, and who this Government can\u2019t be bothered dealing with. Maybe it\u2019s because they think that they won\u2019t do as they\u2019re told. Well, obviously, a lot of people are not doing as they\u2019re told, because\u2014what, there\u2019s 56,000 firearms handed in, is that right? Out of, what, 1.25 million that\u2019s estimated? Not all of those firearms, of course, have been handed in, and there will be ones that are now declared illegal. And some of them, many of them, will be. But there will be other firearms that haven\u2019t been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the areas that we\u2019ve been concerned about in our party, and certainly in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, has been people such as the shooting associations, the competition shooters, who have said to us that now they can\u2019t own the firearms that they use in international competition. When I suggested that maybe they could take those firearms overseas and leave them overseas, well, no, they can\u2019t, because that\u2019s also a breach of it. They need an export licence to do that, and they can\u2019t do that either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re actually, with this legislation, taking away not only the possibility of people being killed with these weapons but, actually, the very legitimate sporting activities of people who\u2019ve never shown any inclination at all to break any law, ever, and who have been trying very much to work within it. So I think these are things that could have been addressed. I particularly note the submissions from the pistol shooting association, who had very good solutions for how we could deal with this, because they have had a very strict regime since the 1980s, which works really, really well. I can\u2019t understand why the Government hasn\u2019t accepted that\u2014and for some reason they haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe also have some concerns around the shifting of a firearms licence from five years to 10 years. Now, I don\u2019t understand that, because\u2014I mean, I understand that a firearms licence is an important document, but this is at the same time that we\u2019ve shifted the passport from five years to 10 years. I would have thought a passport was a pretty important document. It is actually a primary method by which people prove their identity. To be going from a five-year to a 10-year licence in that, but a 10-year to a five-year licence in a firearms licence, doesn\u2019t make sense, does it? It just sounds like it\u2019s punitive, and it\u2019s all about whacking around people who own firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI understand a lot of farmers own firearms, but there\u2019s no reason for this Government to punish them just because they\u2019re farmers. They do enough damage to our poor farming and farming families as it is now; don\u2019t need to do any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnd then there are the issues around collectors. Well, some of us have family members who are collectors, and they\u2019re finding they\u2019re really upset because their collections that they\u2019ve built up over the years\u2014of World War II things and various other things\u2014just get destroyed. It\u2019s all very well to say, \u201COh, they can have these guns decommissioned and basically destroyed in front of them.\u201D, and that will suddenly make them right, but these are silly, silly rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnd then we\u2019ve got sporting ranges. Well, they want shooting ranges in this bill to have a similar certification process to clubs, but they must also have public liability insurance. What\u2019s the insurance got to do with anything, with safety? Insurance has got nothing to do with safety. How many people are being shot on these ranges? None, that\u2019s how many\u2014none, zero, zip, none. So what\u2019s going on here? And then you see that the certification lasts only for\u2014guess what!\u2014five years, compared to clubs, which are indefinite. So what\u2019s the point of that? And then we recommend amending the bill to require notification to police at a shooting range rather than certification. Well, you know, it just seems weird to me. So there\u2019s a lot of stuff that actually seems extremely punitive and doesn\u2019t need to be like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think the first Act that we brought through with such acclaim within Parliament was sensible; this, however, is going too far. This is overreaching. This is actually treating with contempt people who are law-abiding people, who have a reason to own firearms\u2014whether it\u2019s for sporting activity, shooting pests, or on a farm because you need to have a firearm with which to put down an animal that is suffering. These are things that actually exist in the real world, not in Parliament. I think this is a lost opportunity, so I\u2019m hopeful that the Government will listen and will consider changes, because I would have thought New Zealand First would want to bring about changes. I would have thought New Zealand First would want to be able to say something that they\u2019ve achieved, which is to help work with us to bring about these changes. Thank you. Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae74d97fe1c46f6b2f493c855b582a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae74d97fe1c46f6b2f493c855b582a0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The following call is a split call\u2014Jo Luxton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u002209da1fa0995a4749b92c524b53e39069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209da1fa0995a4749b92c524b53e39069\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, I want to acknowledge the leadership that our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has shown and the Hon Stuart Nash has shown by bringing this piece of legislation to the House. [Interruption] Thank you. Thank you for that cheer. I see you\u2019re all in agreeance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI grew up in a little place\u2014spent time for a few years on a farm in a little place\u2014called Ngakuru; I don\u2019t know if any of you are familiar with that. My dad worked on a sheep farm there. My husband is a keen hunter. He may not be that great, but, hopefully, he\u2019s not watching this evening to hear that about his hunting skills. I have sons who are avid hunters, and the one thing I know\u2014and the one thing that we\u2019ve all talked about\u2014is that owning a firearm, having a firearms licence, is a privilege, not a right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ENow, I have not been a permanent member of this select committee. I have sat on the Finance and Expenditure Committee maybe once or twice. When I sat in on that select committee, there were some actually really good arguments brought about by people that were submitting. I\u2019m really pleased to see some of the things that they talked about have been brought about in this legislation, one of them being around the dealer regime whereby people who are from clubs who sell firearms for the benefit of the club, hunting guides, or operating on a small scale are exempt from that dealer regime. To me, I think that makes perfect sense. I also live in a rural, provincial area of New Zealand where there\u2019s lots of farming, lots of areas where people can go hunting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EUltimately, this piece of legislation is about making New Zealand safer. And I heard the argument before about targeting gangs, etc., etc., but actually quite often many people, not just here but around the world, who go out and use a firearm in a crime have never had a criminal record. Something has happened to them within their lives and they\u2019ve just decided to go out and commit a crime of some sort with a firearm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe can no longer sit and continue to wait for things to happen. Situations like we saw in March happen before we act. We have to act now. We can\u2019t allow tragedies to happen again and again and again. So I just want to say that I commend this bill to the House. I commend the Minister and the Prime Minister for their leadership on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf42a458abd14089bc38f6979a15f9a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf42a458abd14089bc38f6979a15f9a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Ian McKelvie\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u002234475bce6d8f48ffaa6a48a945797853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234475bce6d8f48ffaa6a48a945797853\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve listened to a few speeches today and I suppose the thing that concerns me, or disappoints me, most is that I\u2019ve spent a fair bit of time listening to the Government telling us how we think, and that\u2019s extremely frustrating for me. As Judith Collins said, we supported the first piece of this legislation wholeheartedly. Some changes were then made to that legislation through regulation, which certainly didn\u2019t help the piece of legislation and didn\u2019t help our people. But since then, we\u2019ve gone through a select committee stage on the second piece of legislation, which I think there are many gaps in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThe reason I think there are gaps in it\u2014because if you look at what happened with the first piece of legislation, we were given a whole lot of recommendations and information by the New Zealand Police. Some of that information was about the number of firearms that were out there, and they estimated there were some 240,000 firearms that should have been destroyed; in fact, they destroyed 56,250. So if that\u2019s the best information we\u2019ve been given on this whole firearms piece of legislation, I think it\u2019s hugely unlikely that when we get to implementing the register we\u2019re going to have anything like accurate figures or accurate information to run that register to buy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I think the problem that I have with this legislation\u2014I\u2019ve got to say, I fully support gun regulation that\u2019s reasonable and puts rules in place or legislation in place that controls what happens with guns. This legislation badly fails to do that. One of the reasons it badly fails to do it is because of the haste it\u2019s been introduced with. I\u2019ve been around this Parliament a while now and sat on the arms inquiry\u2014I think it was in 2016-17\u2014where we learnt an awful lot about guns. We visited gun clubs, we visited ranges, we visited police armouries, and we visited the place where the police keep the guns that they\u2019ve confiscated. We even inspected some of the guns that had been confiscated and there are some pretty dramatic, sort of, homemade guns they\u2019d picked up in their time. So we could see at that time, and I still support the fact, that there\u2019s certainly a need for legislation to manage the way these guns are out and about in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EA problem with this legislation is it does nothing to take guns off the people that we wanted to take the guns off, and the 2016 inquiry was entirely around trying to establish how guns got into the hands of criminals, gangs and other people that don\u2019t need to have guns in their hands. We\u2019ve achieved absolutely nothing in five years, in my time, looking at this gun legislation, by the legislation that we\u2019re passing today. It\u2019s hugely disappointing, I think, to have got to this point and achieved very little to make New Zealand and New Zealanders safer in what they do. That\u2019s the reason that we oppose this legislation; not because we don\u2019t think, as the National Party, that we need to be in a much better space with respect to firearms in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that occurs to me is when you put legislation in place in a hurry\u2014and we\u2019ve seen quite a lot of legislation put in place in a hurry, including the last round of the gun legislation\u2014then it inevitably leaves the shortcomings in the legislation and it\u2019s found later to be inadequate and fails. There\u2019s no question this legislation will have to be reviewed when we move forward. One, because the gun register in its form that they\u2019ve proposed\u2014and it\u2019s not complete\u2014won\u2019t work, and the other is because some of this stuff is rushed and will not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think, with respect to the register, the security around the register is hugely daunting and challenging for all gun owners, because, effectively, you end up with what\u2019s sitting in your house, sitting on a register that\u2019s clearly been shown already not to be secure. I think that\u2019s one of the great concerns the gun people had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of other things I want to very briefly touch on, because I don\u2019t have long to do it. And that\u2019s where, I think, there are shortcomings in this legislation that may well criminalise people who have certainly no intent of being a criminal. I put myself in that place, to some extent, having recently shifted house. I had no idea, or didn\u2019t think, I guess, to inform the police I had shifted house. Frankly, I don\u2019t have a gun in my house, but that\u2019s the other irony of this piece of legislation. I have a licence but I don\u2019t have a gun, but because I have a licence, I have to have a place to store a gun in my house\u2014pretty extraordinary. I didn\u2019t know that either. So, effectively, you could end up\u2014there\u2019s a lot of things that are going to be very untidy as this piece of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221299d37cde3446368aae3e801c235af5\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Lucky the member\u2019s in Parliament. He might not know otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261679ea10a444112989b9a68df69cd9b\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Yes\u2014legislation gets implemented; I think it\u2019s going to take a long time for the dust to settle on it. I hope it gets implemented in a rational manner that doesn\u2019t end up criminalising a whole lot of people that shouldn\u2019t be criminalised, and a whole lot of people who are innocent, and very solid New Zealanders. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3a37ad8302b4fbca59afcedf606be6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3a37ad8302b4fbca59afcedf606be6b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call David Seymour\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002201a0d853d32b458f903c4606d4730e94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201a0d853d32b458f903c4606d4730e94\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT, to oppose the Arms Legislation Bill. Let me acknowledge the public who presented to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. As a member of that committee, I heard them. They often received a hostile reception from the chair, whose salary they pay, but they persevered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOne analysis found there were 3,841 individual submissions\u201490 percent opposed, 7 percent in favour, 3 percent weren\u2019t sure. Opposition to the bill, I have to say, was overwhelmingly rational, polite, and drawn from practical experience. Those people gave five key reasons why the Arms Legislation Bill should not be passed by this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENumber one: it invades the doctor-patient relationship. We heard from people who were facing or had faced mental health challenges. Our country is on a journey with mental health where it\u2019s becoming more acceptable to talk about it. Doctors can already legally report on their patients if they believe there is a danger to that individual or to the public. But what is this Government doing? Well, it\u2019s passing a law that says that the police must tell your doctor if you have a firearm licence, and doctors are encouraged to report on you. I can\u2019t believe that this Government, of all Governments, would actually undermine mental health, of all issues. We heard from people who said they\u2019d be less likely to seek help because of this legislation. At the committee of the whole House stage, ACT will challenge National and New Zealand First to support amendments removing the invasion of the doctor-patient relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe register\u2014number two\u2014is not just useless, it is a disaster waiting to happen. The bill originally said you had to update the register in real time. Sensible people came to the committee and said not every hunting spot has Wi-Fi or a cellphone coverage area. They said, \u201COK, maybe you only have to update the register every 30 days.\u201D Then it was pointed out that 30 days is enough time to commit a crime. So if the register doesn\u2019t stop crime, what\u2019s the point, especially when it\u2019s a disaster waiting to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EEven while the committee was considering the bill, the police managed to lose data in relation to firearms. A register in the hands of the New Zealand Police\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d0509351664d808bc6b82212f54c21\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: No, they did not. Fake news\u2014fake news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe02135d22f5432ebed921f721e1abde\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is one leak away\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b908ecdb2145659a690c44aee51fd5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Sorry to interrupt the member, I apologise. Mr Nash, you do not sit on the cross benches and interject, and you do not change seats in order to better interject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d14778b766744d5184f6aad941eed9e7\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve never seen a Minister responsible for a bill come to this House on such a defensive, and so he should be ashamed of his role in this legislation. ACT will challenge National and New Zealand First to support an amendment removing the register from this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENumber three: the regulations on clubs will make us less safe. Voluntary organisations in this country usually have two or three people who do everything. If those people melt away because of the onerous restrictions placed on running a club by this bill, we\u2019ll have fewer people shooting with the support and supervision of a club, and we will be less safe. You see the irony. Every time this Government, through this bill, tries to make us safer, they make things worse. ACT will be challenging National and New Zealand First to support amendments to remove the onerous restrictions placed on clubs by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe real problem that\u2019s been outlined by speakers can be summed up as the fact that this bill does not punish criminals. It makes criminals of people trying to follow the law. That is the travesty of this bill. All of the requirements go on people who are trying to follow the law. It is the worst kind of chimpanzee politics where this Government attempts to punish a group of people it thinks are politically unpopular. Don\u2019t we see that coming through in the attitudes of the chair of the select committee and Labour members towards the licensed firearm community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut, finally, let\u2019s talk about the timing. A Government that was truly constructive and inclusive would have waited for the royal commission to define the problem before they tried to solve the problem, and what have they done? They haven\u2019t waited for the royal commission. They shortened the select committee\u2019s time for this bill to five months from the usual six. Why just five? Well, so that the Prime Minister could announce, before the 15 March anniversary, that she\u2019d passed another bill. It is political theatrics masquerading as public safety, and that is the greatest shame of all. It is, in fact, to borrow a term from across the Chamber, an absolutely despicable piece of lawmaking. This bill must be opposed, and if it passes, the worst of it must be changed by the next Parliament. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022600eefacabfc43b8be41bf0a3990b61f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022600eefacabfc43b8be41bf0a3990b61f\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The sad part of politics, sometimes, is that people, in desperation for the saving of their party or their own seat, must take, sometimes, extreme views. We\u2019ve seen that just now. You know, what we had was an opportunity for this Parliament to get together and support a bill that actually is a fair and rational approach to gun control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI point the other side of the House very quickly to the fact that in their time in Government, they had an opportunity to adhere to recommendations for gun safety. They only took seven. When asked why, they said, \u201CThat was then; this is now. We\u2019re going to look at this; we\u2019re going to work constructively.\u201D But then came along the election, and everything changed, because they realised that, actually, they feel there are votes to gain in this. I think that\u2019s sad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhen you look at the previous record of Judith Collins as former police Minister, who expressed support for these sorts of measures; now they are against it. When you look at the views of former National police Minister John Banks, who says his greatest regret was that he did not act more strongly after the terrible massacre in Aramoana. The fact is, and I think this is regrettable, that there are politics at play here, when there is an opportunity for this Parliament to take a lead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis bill will not stop me hunting. This bill will not stop the gun clubs in Wairarapa and across the region doing what they do best in showing leadership in regional areas, teaching gun safety and discipline. I have absolutely no hesitancy as a member of this Government, as a resident of a rural area, and as a keen hunter, to support this bill. I commend it, and I commend the Minister and his officials for the work on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022e18fa7e3973f4749bfd2cd012b8fb8c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e18fa7e3973f4749bfd2cd012b8fb8c3\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E This bill is a classic case of overreach. We oppose this bill, and for good reason. That\u2019s not to say we don\u2019t support firearms reform, and we did in the first bill that went through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI, as a firearm owner and licence holder, was concerned about the proliferation of large magazine semi-automatic weapons that were available for sale, and much of that was dealt with in the first firearms bill. However, the thing that most worries me about the first bill was the significant delay in publishing the remuneration terms for the buy-back. That was a case of very poor implementation by the Government, and that led to an appallingly low level of people handing in their rifles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe all talk about\u2014we\u2019ve collected 56,000 weapons, and we all think we\u2019re much safer, but the reality is that we are not. We don\u2019t know how many weapons there are. It\u2019s anywhere between 1.1 and maybe 1.5, even though the police have been issuing import licences for these types of weapons coming in since 1983, but somehow we don\u2019t know the figure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut I can guarantee you that there will be thousands of these weapons that are wanted and should have been brought in and handed back, but because of the poor implementation of the first round, they have not. This has led to a case where we might feel we are safer, but in fact, we\u2019re not safer. That\u2019s my first issue with the way that this process has worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIn terms of this bill, we did have two wins. National played an instrumental part in making sure that the licence duration changed. When the bill was introduced, there was a requirement that there would be a five-year rollover of the licence period. We in the National Party fought that because that is not required. The statistics said, and the argument was, that you should be looking at and assessing new gun owners, and we agreed that in the first rollover that\u2019s when you should be doing it in a five-year period. But, thereafter, people by that stage often get married and move into stable relationships, don\u2019t move home so much, and the 10-year period was deemed to be sufficient. That was the success that the National Party brought to this bill, to reduce the initial period to five years but thereafter maintain it at 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other area that we had success on is the issue around dealer licences. We were concerned about guides going out\u2014and we talked about hunting guides going out and taking people out in controlled situations and being captured by the dealer licensing requirements. We also talked about film armourers. Thankfully, the committee listened to our protestations about those requirements in the proposed bill, and the amendments got changed thanks to National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut there are so many things that we did not get through in this bill, and it is to my great regret that we didn\u2019t. The first is around the regulation of clubs. Many of us MPs\u2014and we all claim to represent a lot of urban electorates, but those who have actually gone out and visited the pistol clubs, the gun clubs in their electorate, will find that in the main they are incredibly well organised, they are very careful about safety, they monitor people very well, they do all the sort of things that every New Zealander would hope that they would be doing, and, best of all, they teach young New Zealanders how to use the firearm safely. But this bill has now imposed stringent regulations on those clubs, and I think that\u2019s wrong because if any of the organisations in New Zealand will help create a more safe environment and create an environment where young New Zealanders can use weapons in a safe manner, the clubs of New Zealand are the very places where that should and does take place. Yet this bill cuts the core of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIt didn\u2019t just stop there. Our Government people wanted to make sure that the sporting clubs were also captured. So these are the gun ranges and all those sorts of things. We wanted notification of the gun ranges and the sporting clubs, but, no, we\u2019ve now got a certification regime, and that is far more onerous. Also, there\u2019s now a requirement for public liability. And as we heard from many of the speakers, that puts an added financial cost and pressure on those types of organisations. In many cases, many of them are going to choose not to carry on\u2014and, again, that is a travesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe sporting shooters: this is an area that we traversed widely in the first bill that got passed through this House. Again, this is a small group of individuals who do competition shooting both domestically and internationally. They have expensive firearms. They are the ones that will be least keen to see their weapons burgled, because their rifles, their weapons, will be the most precise and set up for their own situations so that they can compete. And, hey presto! We had a Government who didn\u2019t see that they had a valid right, that they were a very, very safe category\u2014probably the most safe category\u2014because when they are competing internationally, or even domestically, they are subject to some of the rules that are the most stringent around safety, and yet we could not get that through. And where was New Zealand First on that? Nowhere\u2014nowhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we had the collectors, already subject to huge restrictions. Collectors have to have special-sized safes, much thicker than the ordinary licence holder has, like I do at home. They are subject to, again, a lot of scrutiny; checked every year. But hey presto! That wasn\u2019t enough. Even though we haven\u2019t had issues with collectors, here we have a bill that places more restrictions on them. The requirement for storing parts off site and other areas\u2014probably in less secure areas\u2014again, just overreach of compliance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we had the issue around pest control. Again, many of us in this House come from farms, own farms, and know about it. What we\u2019re talking about is the legitimate destruction of pests that cause a lot of mayhem in New Zealand: goats, deer, pigs, geese, and paradise ducks are examples of this. There was this view that prevailed in the committee with certain members who thought that that was not a legitimate cause for farmers to be able to look after their land, to make sure that these pests didn\u2019t ruin the natural habitat of New Zealand, and yet weren\u2019t safe enough to be able to have weapons and to be able to go and shoot these animals when required. So we came up with this long-winded process that you\u2019ve now got to form a company and it will have to be specially certified by the police and all that sort of stuff, and the intent of it and all that sort of stuff. Of course, there\u2019s this overriding impractical, illogical view that you\u2019ll just be able to pick up the phone to a company and say, \u201CCome and shoot my pest right now\u201D. But there are certain of those animals\u2014birds, for instance, paradise ducks\u2014that you only shoot when they\u2019ve got young fledglings because at other times you can\u2019t get near them. But yet there was this incomprehensible lack of understanding about how you go about doing that. Where was New Zealand First in that argument? Nowhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAgain, there was an issue of licensing of firearms. We have had a licensing arrangement in New Zealand before\u2014we\u2019ve had it before. We had it, and we\u2019ve heard about the Canadian examples and other jurisdictions. The issue with the licensing is that it has got to be accurate to be useful. We heard, already, from that small category of E-Cat firearm owners who are subject to the most stringent controls and are checked every year. They said, even then, that police couldn\u2019t keep their records about the number of firearms and all the registration around that accurate. Yet we\u2019re talking about going out and trying to register 250,000 people and over a million rifles. It\u2019s not going to work\u2014it\u2019s not going to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think this is one of the biggest issues, the jurisdiction that this will impose on the police, because this is a significant burden that they are now going to have to undertake. There was no consideration about how you might practically do that in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u002281b74c40a41d487badcd743cf059deed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281b74c40a41d487badcd743cf059deed\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, it falls to me to stand and speak on behalf of the New Zealand First caucus on this Arms Legislation Bill before the House. As I start, I want to do a couple of things. Firstly, I want to acknowledge all those New Zealanders who made submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the feeling of hunters and shooters who have always been law-abiding citizens of this country, who have never transgressed, who have always demonstrated absolute responsibility as they\u2019ve participated in their chosen sport: be that service rifle; be that deer stalking; be that duck shooting; be that trap, down the line, skeet, whatever\u2014all of which I myself have participated in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that those law-abiding New Zealanders who have been declared fit and proper people for a long time were just as horrified by the events of 15 March as anyone else in this House. For many, it was the nightmare that they feared might happen one day. I want to acknowledge that most of those people also share the same objective of wanting the Government of the day to ensure that our streets are safe and that we have laws and restrictions and constraints in place, around access to firearms, that do keep people safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Cabinet decision to remove military-style assault rifles from the hands of category A licence holders. That\u2019s a deliberate decision made by the Cabinet and advanced with police recommendations in the form of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the fair and reasonable concerns raised of those who would have preferred to have seen the royal commission report before legislation went through. The New Zealand First caucus understands their view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Finance and Expenditure Committee for the improvements they have made to the bill and for demonstrating through the amendments that they have agreed to\u2014and this is by majority\u2014that a number of the propositions being put forward in the legislation under the recommendations of New Zealand Police were unnecessary and even, as stated by the committee itself, deemed to be unsound. I want to acknowledge the Minister of Police for accepting those recommended changes to the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI have to acknowledge that there are quite substantial changes being put forward by the committee, and I won\u2019t rotary hoe that paddock because I know we\u2019re going to get to the committee of the whole House and those amendments will be debated, I know, very strongly. So I won\u2019t go through them, but I think it\u2019s fair to say that the New Zealand First caucus has some reservations. Indeed our leader, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, did say on 19 October 2019, when we were in Christchurch and we went out to listen to and speak to some firearms owners who held a very orderly, almost family picnic-type protest in Latimer Square, to quote him, New Zealand First was going into this process with open ears. We did not have, in his words, tin ears\u2014that we had asked them to express their views, their concerns, make their points during the select committee process, and that we would listen, that the New Zealand First caucus would listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIndeed, on 7 February, Clayton Mitchell, who is the New Zealand First spokesperson for sport and recreation and has been attending select committee hearings on this bill, tweeted and said, \u201CNZ First looks forward to continuing to work constructively with Minister Nash over the Arms Legislation, to get the optimal balance between legal gun use and compliance, as well as restating our Party\u2019s views that police should be targeting criminals not law abiding gun owners.\u201D Mr Clayton Mitchell MP has been firm and resolute in that and has been supported by the caucus as a whole. Those things have not changed. The New Zealand First caucus have always said that they\u2019ll work constructively towards sensible legislation that is pragmatic, that achieves the purpose of the bill, improving safety, is fair, and is reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EMuch has been made in this debate and during the course of the passage of the bill through select committee about gangs and the threats that they pose, and how this is going to resolve that. I just want to point out that I\u2019ve been in this House a wee while and I\u2019ve heard this debate when National\u2019s been on this side of the House and Labour on that side; propositions by the late Rt Hon Mike Moore when he fought against gangs, for tougher legislation on gangs when he was part of Labour in Opposition and he met with a tin ear from National. I have been on those benches myself proposing a suppression of gangs bill and having it turned down by the same Labour Party because they thought it was too tough. Then I have sat there and watched the National Party join with Mr Stuart Nash when he was in Opposition and support a select committee inquiry that, of all things, recommended a registration system of firearms, and all of this in the name of reducing gang violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI\u2019d say I\u2019m probably the only father in the House who\u2019s actually had a daughter sitting in a car beside another car where a woman was shot through the chest by a gang member in a drive-by shooting. I also have a son who\u2019s a front-line police officer who tells me: \u201CDad, every day of every week we\u2019re picking up firearms off of gangs, and something has to be done about it.\u201D New Zealand First is looking for a pragmatic way through that also protects, as far as we possibly can, the rights and privileges of legitimate firearms owners and firearms users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EI want to conclude by saying two things. The committee of the whole House is a place where this debate will be worked through. Mr Mitchell has already made it clear, and I\u2019m talking with Minister Nash about some things that we just want to settle in our head. One of those things is resolving the question\u2014and it was discussed in the select committee\u2019s deliberations\u2014around the proposal to instate, and Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick raised this issue, the question as to whether or not police should continue to administer firearms law; the question as to whether it\u2019s appropriate to have an entity that is the enforcer of the law and the writer of the law, where the separation of powers is blurred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ERight now it is of concern to me and to New Zealand First that the confidence of firearms owners in police has been undermined. New Zealand First has all along said there is need here for a conversation about an arms authority that takes that statutory responsibility, thus leaving the police to one side to simply enforce the law, just as New Zealand Transport Authority issue the drivers licences, determine the testing regime, decide who is fit and proper to have a drivers licence. So too there is a strong argument, we would contest, for a separate body doing that, leaving the police not to write the law, or rewrite it through regulation, according to what they wish, but leaving them just to enforce the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESo I think this conversation has to go on. I think there was a further conversation to be had around farmers who have serious problems with pest control. There is a serious conversation to be had around sporting shooters, and there\u2019s also some recognition due to COLFO. It hurts me to hear people labelling an organisation, the Council of Licenced Firearms Owners, as a gun lobby or equivalent to the National Rifle Association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291a4ef9213fc40e9a53e169cef954537\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s your Minister, Mr Mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5a02306f86422184a051822c85163c\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: That hurts me, Mr Hudson, because something that I don\u2019t think members of this House do realise or understand is that certain people in this country, by virtue of the endorsements they hold, are muted and have their hands tied behind their back. If they come forward to make a submission, they immediately identify themselves in public as being a collector or a restricted firearms owner, which opens their home up to being a target for gangs seeking access to these types of firearms. They are never going to jeopardise their personal safety by coming along and publicly identifying. These people are lawyers, doctors, professionals\u2014I know one who\u2019s an economist. I know many of these people are schoolteachers. They are very responsible, law-abiding New Zealanders, and they need an organisation like COLFO to represent their concerns because they cannot for fear of identifying themselves and putting their family\u2019s safety at risk. So we acknowledge that, and we will do our very best to represent their interests. Thank you, and I say to the committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00224a0047667b87404c8d3bac2b609fe038\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a0047667b87404c8d3bac2b609fe038\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments recommended by the Finance and Expenditure Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002254578fbc88cb41ceb4540ac11af0bd66\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d7bc603bb843451bb2af9731ec47d84a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Arms Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202560eff79ee4692b998709f7824d38d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221797ee40a0d54161813ea6f10f06fea8\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022dee5ae48153c48b1b6f72e7fe15e9973\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dee5ae48153c48b1b6f72e7fe15e9973\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Health Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act 2000. The bill repeals Part 4A of the Act, which provides the legitimate policy framework for funded family care policies. By repealing Part 4A, we will be removing the discriminatory elements of the current legislation. This will result in our disabled people and their family carers being treated fairly, their human rights being upheld, and\u2014alongside a full package of funded family care\u2014much improved family and wh\u0101nau wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI would also like to thank the Minister of Health, the Hon David Clark, as well as the Hon Julie Anne Genter, who assisted with this legislation before it was handed over to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EPart 4A provides for the Crown and district health boards to have family care policies to pay resident family members to provide personal care and household management support for their eligible ill or disabled family members. However, when Part 4A was introduced in 2013, the then Attorney-General found that the limitation to rights and freedoms in Part 4A could not be justified under section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. This is because Part 4A of this Act allows the exclusion of certain resident family members from being paid for providing support and prohibited claims to the Human Rights Commission for family care policies; that was wrong. That\u2019s why the parties of our Government have been so committed to repealing Part 4A and undoing a shameful legacy of the last Government. It is the right thing to do and our coalition Government is delivering on this commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn July of 2019 the Prime Minister announced changes to the funded family care, including repeal of Part 4A. This repeal will allow the Crown and district health boards to continue to implement lawful family care policies. Resident spouses and wh\u0101nau of eligible ill or disabled people under 18 will no longer be excluded from being paid under these policies. The repeal, alongside fairer pay rates and greater choice in employment models, will help support better standards of living and agency for disabled New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis repeal of Part 4A will also enable future complaints about the policies to be made to the Human Rights Commission on the basis of human rights discrimination. The Human Rights Review Tribunal and courts will be able to hear complaints. This legislative change will ensure consistency with human rights law and uphold New Zealand\u2019s commitments under the United Nations convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities to treat disabled people equally and to uphold human rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill will address a petition presented to the Health Committee in 2018 asking the Government to repeal Part 4A and stop discriminating against family carers. The select committee process will enable people with care needs, affected families, and other stakeholders to make submissions and have their voices heard by the committee, and I encourage the public to do so. There was no opportunity for submissions to be heard by people when Part 4A was introduced. We acknowledge that that was wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe prohibition by the previous Government on fairness and others challenging what families and carers see as discriminatory legislation was an act that has brought national and international concern by the disability and carer communities. The introduction of this bill, to repeal Part 4A, is how we begin to right that wrong. Our Government is committed to making Aotearoa New Zealand a place where disabled people, their families, and carers are treated with respect, fairness, and dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis is a short bill that will make a very large difference in so many people\u2019s lives. As such, I don\u2019t need to take up any more of the House\u2019s time. I am pleased to be able to present this bill here today. I strongly commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00222e3233e3a0d5432abc5e5f6e6627c854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e3233e3a0d5432abc5e5f6e6627c854\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call on behalf of the National Party and as the new spokesperson for disabilities. The National Party will support the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill in its first reading and through to select committee. We look forward to the process of the select committee where we will be able to hear from legal experts as well as the disabled community about the effects of this legislation and also its changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ENational does recognise the crucial role of the families in providing care and support. It did so, because in 2013 it introduced this piece into the legislation that we are about to amend. It was under this National Government, previous Governments had the opportunity, but the National Government saw fit that it should be\u2014in fact, it was one of only three countries in the world at that time, the Netherlands and Sweden, and so New Zealand was the third to be able to introduce what they call a funded family care policy to ensure that families could be recognised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWhat will be challenging is the fact that not all things are equal. There are many discretions that we have in legislation that mean that not all people are entitled. So just because someone is able does not always mean that they meet the criteria and are able to and are entitled. So hence the reasons why there was a cautionary element in regards to Part 4A of this bill. So we look forward to the discussion and the conversation around that. We are supportive of what will be, I think, an important element to continue to support the care packages for the disabled community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EWe know the objectives of this are to change Part 4A, and, in particular, what is being recognised inside of that, around the framework, around the role that the Attorney-General in 2013 had highlighted, where he had stated that Part 4A could not be justified under section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, and that Part 4A allows for an exclusion of certain resident family members. We don\u2019t resile from that. We think it\u2019s important that discretion is held. It\u2019s important to do that. We have an ageing population. We have healthcare facilities that at the moment are at full capacity. So, therefore, wherever possible, where the appropriate relationship with carers, with family members, is there to provide that support and that care, then there should be some ability to allow the Government to fund their role\u2014or responsibility, in this case\u2014especially to their loved ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo, we don\u2019t intend to speak too long. We support this to the first reading and into the select committee, and, again, to have the conversation. I would again want to preface this, though: while the Minister has said that this is important, it will be a small change that will also have a big impact, I want to have a cautionary measure that while we may want to do this because it\u2019s the right thing to do, it\u2019s the way that we would do this; discretion has to be shown. We want to be able to allow for the funding of family members but at the same time too, care and concern in how we do that is critically important to us as well. So, we commend this bill into the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00228fd860b37a734615b3ebcd4c48ba10ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fd860b37a734615b3ebcd4c48ba10ba\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. This year marks 20 years since Peter Atkinson and Susan Atkinson, Gillian Bransgrove, Jean Burnett, Laurence Carter, Peter Humphreys, Clifford Robinson, Lynda Stoneham, Stuart Burnett, and Imogen Atkinson took a complaint to the Human Rights Commission. The complaint, essentially, was about parents of adult children with disabilities being excluded from being recognised as carers, and, therefore, receiving support from the State. That drove them to go to the Human Rights Commission. That then drove a Human Rights Review Tribunal decision. It was appealed by the Government to the High Court and then the Court of Appeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe Court of Appeal said that the ministry\u2019s policy of not paying parents where a non-family member would be paid was discriminatory on the basis of family status. Further, the discrimination was not justified under section 5 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. That drove, in 2013, the National Government to create a piece of legislation to actually limit them and also limit the ability of parents, whose children had disabilities, going to the courts to seek redress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ETwenty years later, my colleague the Hon Jenny Salesa, whose name this bill is under, is coming to rectify that massive injustice. It\u2019s incredibly humbling, I suppose, for the National Party to come here tonight and support that legislation, because the guts of their opposition, can I say, was that it was fiscally unaffordable. That\u2019s what Minister Ryall said when they pushed that bill through in one day in 2013. So it\u2019s wonderful that they\u2019ve joined us tonight in working to rectify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWhat Clifford Robinson said\u201450 years he\u2019s been looking after his disabled children\u2014was that all good things come to those who wait. So thank goodness this House finally will ensure people like Mr Robinson\u2014who has been looking after his two adult disabled children for 50 years\u2014are going to be recognised for the contribution that they make to our society in being carers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo I commend this bill to the House. I can\u2019t wait, as the chair of the Health Committee, to hear from those parents and for their stories to be given space to be heard so that we can fully acknowledge their contribution to New Zealand society. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00228b05aa15b6d842a09ebe313503a77ef8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b05aa15b6d842a09ebe313503a77ef8\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak to this bill. The legislation, as we\u2019ve heard, that was enacted in 2013, effectively, did three things: one, close family members of the disabled were to be unpaid; two, those who were not close family members were to be paid\u2014to be paid at the minimum wage level; and, three, as we\u2019ve heard, there was no recourse to the Human Rights Act or the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, there were a number of reasons supporting the thinking, the information, and the circumstances at the time. We\u2019re now seven years later. There are new sets of information, new circumstances, a new Government, and new party leaders. This is a proposal to repeal the legislation, and, certainly, this is the option that this bill has taken, and it\u2019s on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, the regulatory impact analysis (RIA) for the funded family care package describes a range of options. It says we could do nothing. We could repeal but replace section 70E of Part 4A. We could repeal, put a litigation bar in, and a compensation framework. The fourth option was repeal, no litigation bar, and a compensation framework, and the fifth is to repeal in full. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ENow, there are two important time periods for this bill. Prior to 2013, there is potential litigation risk, but the advice, through the regulatory impact assessment, is that the Limitation Act will apply, so there\u2019s probably no fiscal risk to that. The risk then becomes litigation from 2013 through to the date of repeal. Again, the RIA suggests that that is somewhat unknown and unbounded but could possibly be up to $170 million. The RIA recommends two approaches\u2014either repeal in full or repeal with a litigation bar, which says, fundamentally, you could not take litigation from 2013 through to the time of repeal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll make several comments. The first is that under the regulatory impact assessment, repeal is predicated on Budget 2019 providing enough funding for the proposed changes. Now, we\u2019ve heard that a full repeal option could have a litigation risk of $170 million, but Budget 2019 only allocated $32 million. So I think there\u2019s some alignment there as to what the RIA says is almost a caveat on this bill progressing: that it must be funded in 2019\u2014in the last Budget, not in the Budget coming forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to talk to is the departmental disclosure statement point 2.3.1., page 5: \u201Cdid the RIA Team in \u2026 Treasury provide an independent quality assessment of [the Ministry of Health\u2019s internal RIA]?\u201D The answer is no. This is an unbounded unknown for a large sum of money. I would strongly suggest Grant Robertson and his Treasury quality assurance team, or they\u2019re a panel, actually, who have the responsibility for externally assessing internally generated RIAs\u2014I\u2019d strongly suggest to Grant Robertson, please, could he bring his team to the table and offer an opinion on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EThe second issue I want to raise from the departmental disclosure statement is point 3.7.: \u201CHave the policy details [being] given effect by this Bill been otherwise tested or assessed in any way to ensure the Bill\u2019s provisions are workable and complete.\u201D The answer to that is no. I\u2019d suggest that\u2019s another piece of work that hopefully will be in front of the select committee before we even get to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003EI want to conclude then by saying we should always have an open mind and be prepared to at least consider to review legislation, no matter what flavour brought it into the House. We expressed concerns yesterday about the polytechnics becoming subsidiaries and having less of a voice to critique and criticise the Government under the provisions of parent-subsidiary in the Companies Act. I would bring this to this House in this discussion also that we should have concerns where we might not be able to openly discuss legislation that we\u2019ve introduced and say, \u201CHuh, new circumstances and new people. Maybe we need to relook at it again.\u201D, and I think it\u2019s in that context that this side of the House is saying exactly that. New people, new circumstances, seven years later\u2014let\u2019s look at this again and see if we can make some sense of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003ESo, in that context, you\u2019re hearing our team saying that we\u2019re supporting this through to select committee, and we look forward to the discussion there. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002281ec89bd1c104196a51279571e3f7a98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ec89bd1c104196a51279571e3f7a98\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on behalf of New Zealand First on this the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill. This bill will repeal Part 4A of the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act 2000, and this legislative change will ensure consistency with human rights law and it\u2019ll uphold New Zealand\u2019s commitments under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a really great committee that I sit on, the Health Committee. We are generally a very collegial committee. So it is a real pleasure that this piece of legislation will be scrutinised in the Health Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EIt is interesting to note that in 2018 we actually received into the Health Committee a petition asking the Government to repeal this very piece of legislation we have before us today, Part 4A, to stop the discrimination against family carers. Now, the select committee process will enable those people who have brought the petition to us to have their voices heard. There was no opportunity for their voices to be heard when this piece of legislation went through in 2013, because there was no select committee process. So now it is a great opportunity for them to let us know what their voices have to say on this issue. We in New Zealand First and Labour opposed that bill in 2013. But moving along now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7183c19d4614047be214381cf24e11f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: And the Greens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcbd1395c7fc4ad7b44004ca71b10a6d\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and the Greens\u2014we are able, with the willingness of the National Opposition, to pass this almost unanimously through this first reading anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EPart 4A provides the legislative policy framework for funded family care policies in the health sector. Now, this Government has improved family wellbeing with a suite of changes, together with our funded family care package. Chucking out Part 4A and overturning that hard-nosed policy that was implemented by a National Government is a step in the right direction. No wonder there were howling cries from across the country, and, in fact, from around the world there was concern raised by the disability sector and carer communities. But Kiwis caring for family members of high and very high support needs will have their right to challenge, now, the laws and policies that directly affect them. They will have that right restored to them through this piece of legislation. They were rendered voiceless by a National Government. We now give them back their voice. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee422b55f04149d7bde3cfe70e9c09bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee422b55f04149d7bde3cfe70e9c09bd\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a short call on the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill, and I follow after my two colleagues, the Hon Alfred Ngaro and Dr Shane Reti, on this bill that repeals Part 4A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting that seven years down the track, we come and\u2014as Shane has said\u2014there is new leadership and the passage of new legislation. On this side of the House, we are really pleased to be able to support the first reading of this bill and to support the bill into the select committee, where conversations can be had and discussions can be had. As a non-member of the Health Committee, I\u2019m quite envious that that will happen and I won\u2019t be there, but all I can say is that this side of the House is open and willing to sit down with the coalition Government and have that discussion, listen to what people have to say, and work from there on out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EMy comment, really, post-that\u2014should this bill pass through all stages\u2014is that the coalition Government will follow it through by making sure that there is adequate funding within the disability sector for the legislation to be enacted fully. At the last Budget, I noted that the disability sector came to us and asked for $250 million extra towards their disability services, and did not get anywhere near that, actually. So it\u2019s great to have this bill here, and it\u2019s great to have the parties agreeing for it to go to the select committee. I just hope that this coalition Government will actually follow it up with the funding and will listen to the disability community as they put their submissions to the Government benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo, without any further ado, I tautoko everything that has been said on this side around this particular bill, and I look forward to its progress through the House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002264c101e8d0d845c89ddd721469dd554f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264c101e8d0d845c89ddd721469dd554f\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand in support of this amazing piece of legislation, and I just want to applaud the Opposition for\u2014as has been mentioned by other colleagues in this House\u2014the humbling process that it takes to come into the Chamber and admit that there has been a change of mind. I think that oftentimes in this very bizarre sound bite - media environment, we have this perversity of thinking whereby if we are to change our mind when we come up against new evidence or new information, it\u2019s characterised as flip-flopping, and that\u2019s somehow seen as a bad thing\u2014that you evolve and that you change your mind. But I don\u2019t think it is in any other part of our everyday lives, so it definitely shouldn\u2019t be seen as a bad thing that our feelings change here in this House. So I want to applaud the National Party for, at the very least, coming on board at this first stage of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not to say that there shouldn\u2019t be a process of accountability or otherwise, and I want to applaud them as well for stating that they did\u2014hopefully. I haven\u2019t heard that they did the wrong thing, but they are acknowledging that they did enact these changes in 2013. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo the first question is: how did we get here? What are we actually doing with this piece of legislation? I think that it has been outlined quite fully and freely by other members of this Government in their contributions, but, essentially, what we have in the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act is a framework that enables those who are looking after people with severe disabilities the ability to get funding to provide that care and those services. However, in 2013, under urgency, the former National Government moved an amendment to that legislation to block carers who happened to have a familial connection to those people with disabilities to whom they were providing care. At that point in time, it was raised by a number of us across this House, and it\u2019s been raised by other members of this Government in their contributions\u2014it was both the Greens, the Labour Party, and New Zealand First who opposed those changes, but none the less, it was rammed through in a matter of less than 24 hours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt happens to be the case that this is a situation that I bring up regularly when talking about my hobby horse across the country, which my colleague the honourable Minister James Shaw will be quite familiar with\u2014that being my personal feeling about the need for a supreme, codified constitution, because what we saw with the inclusion of Part 4A under the National Government in those amendments in 2013 was against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Section 4 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, obviously, says that if there is any legislation which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, it is presumed that the will of Parliament overrides our New Zealand Bill of Rights\u2014anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s how we got here. I want to acknowledge the incredible work that has been done by former Green Party MPs in championing a revocation of these changes that were implemented under the previous Government\u2014the likes of Kevin Hague, particularly; the incredible work of Catherine Delahunty; and also our former deaf MP, Mojo Mathers. Just this morning, I was meeting with an awesome disability advocate, someone who is really keen on making sure that we have more accessible cities, and he was talking to me about the Election Access Fund Bill, which is Mojo Mathers\u2019 legacy piece of legislation that I\u2019m fortunate to be moving through the House\u2014thankfully, also with the unanimous support of all parties in Parliament. He said, \u201CIt\u2019s all very well and good for us to be talking about things like greater representation for deaf and disabled people within the House of Representatives, but at the end of the day, I just want to be able to cross the street safely.\u201D So that\u2019s the kind of basic, fundamental stuff that we\u2019re talking about here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also, just finally, really want to acknowledge the work that has been undertaken not by those parliamentary champions, not by those within NGOs, not by those who work in the legal sector or those who have a voice within the commentariat and our media, but I want to particularly acknowledge the disability community, those who have, day in and day out, attempted to articulate the challenges that they face in a society that was consciously constructed without them in mind, and their work across the community in bringing forward a petition, which now, I believe, has been in front of the Health Committee. Today is a great day, and it, hopefully, marks unanimous support for the first reading. The Green Party is very happy to be supporting this piece of legislation and looks forward to the submissions from the public at the select committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u002225c6373327b5423aab436231bcbff637\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c6373327b5423aab436231bcbff637\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It\u2019s a privilege to stand this evening and for the first time this year\u2014and for a long time, in fact\u2014to address the House in relation to this bill, the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill. Mr Speaker, you and I both know, being locals of Whanganui, that one of our own from that community who has committed and dedicated his life working as a disabled person and an advocate in the disability sector, Robert Martin, had been honoured in the New Year Honours List and is soon to be knighted for his advocacy on the global stage, on the United Nations. In fact, members in this House and members who have been in the House since 2014 may well recall when Dame Tariana Turia, as Minister for Disability Issues, recommended Robert Martin\u2014soon to be Sir Robert\u2014for the post, travelling with him to New York to support his nomination in 2014. He will return to New York again to seek reappointment in that role, to continue the advocacy in this space\u2014and importantly, one around the disability communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAs has been comprehensively covered in my colleague Sir\u2014\u201CSir\u201D? Could be, but Dr Shane Reti. He has outlined the background to this, and I won\u2019t go into that, because this call that I\u2019m taking this evening is a brief one so that we\u2019re able to get through this bill, hopefully, and the speaking of it this evening. But to say, with that having been traversed as to why we\u2019ve arrived, the proposed amendment to the legislation, as it has been, noting that Part 4A was introduced at a time where there were\u2014it curtailed the limitations around the eligibility of family members in caring for their own disabled family members. I think members of the public are interested in the context of that, and I hope to take a call at the second reading of this to go through the history as to how we\u2019ve arrived at this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EBut in conclusion, people are also interested as to where this is leading to, so the time line. This bill was introduced into the House on 21 January this year. Here we are at the first reading, and then, come 14 April, the Ministry of Health will look at extending the eligibility around the funded family care criteria and the rates that go with that, with those new pay rates taking effect as at around that time\u201414 April. Then, the DHBs will look at expanding that eligibility around the payment scale to family members looking after their own disabled persons at around about the end of June 2020, all going well, and then Part 4A being repealed at the third reading of this on 1 September 2020, by which time we will still be in Parliament and will be debating the merits of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI am confident that there\u2019ll be further robust discussions at select committee level. In taking this brief call, the National Party commends this part, this reading, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022378db85e919741cf977225719b1c793f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022378db85e919741cf977225719b1c793f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Willow-Jean Prime\u2014five minutes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00224f7a50a4af714f7fa2971bedd05ac7a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f7a50a4af714f7fa2971bedd05ac7a3\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. Tuatahi, m\u0101ku e mihi kau ana ki Te Minita n\u0101n\u0101 i mau mai t\u0113nei ture ki roto i Te Whare P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei p\u014D. He t\u016B poto t\u0113nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku, e tautoko ana ahau i t\u0113nei pire, pau te kaha, n\u014D reira ka hoatu t\u0113nei ki Te Komiti m\u014D Te Hauora ki te \u0101ta titiro i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, ng\u0101 ture, ki te \u0101whina, ki te tiaki, kia whiwhi mana, kia whiwhi moni an\u014D hoki ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau e tiaki ana o r\u0101tou t\u0101ngata e m\u0101uiui ana, e hau\u0101 ana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ka whakairi t\u0113nei ki mua i a koe: e tautoko ana, pau te kaha. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker. Firstly, I acknowledge the Minister who is responsible for bringing this legislation before Parliament tonight. I will be brief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI support this bill wholeheartedly. Much work has gone into it and it will, therefore, go to the Health Committee for a more detailed analysis on the legislative aspects, the wraparound support services, the financial assistance, and the increased status afforded to families that provide care for their sick and disabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ETherefore, I conclude with these remarks: I give my unequivocal support.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022d59e115354d449179782857028114b36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d59e115354d449179782857028114b36\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to take this call in support of this bill, the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill, at first reading. Many New Zealand families play a crucial and vital role in the support and love and care of those members of our family who, for some illness or disability, are not in a position to care for themselves. I can state categorically that my own family is providing this care as I speak, as I\u2019m sure members in this House will have someone in their family or they will know someone that\u2019s in this very same position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThe mainstay of all societies is not the State; it is the family unit, and it is the individual and the family that they exist within. Thus, the responsibility for the care of those individuals does lay first and foremost with those family members, and this is true for all our communities in this country, whether you\u2019ve been here a thousand years or have just come last year. This is what we do\u2014we look after our own. But from time to time, that burden on families can be heavy indeed, and so families will look to the wider community, their wider family, to a care provider for support, and that also includes the Government. As a country, we stand very proud in our compassion and care for others, and particularly also when they are not even related to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003ESo giving families some relief from the situation, the challenges of care, does require financial resources. As has been noted by members on this side of the House tonight, I\u2019m proud to be a member of a party that when in Government in 2013, still managing some of the challenges of economic trade winds of the global financial crisis and subsequent earthquakes, still managed to provide this funded care network. So that stands strong in our record; I\u2019m pleased that was noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI stand to support this bill to the next stage, to the select committee, where we can get meaningful debate and discussion and really look towards how we can best implement a plan to go forward for the communities, the families, who are in need. It\u2019s a useful time to enable the committee to get some good advice of experts and to hear from those individuals, those families, whom this bill will affect. There are some pragmatic and hard decisions that have to be made, where we look to identify how we best support these families, and we do have to carefully balance the needs of the wh\u0101nau. So I\u2019m pleased to support this bill to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002245cd598516ff4889a7555aa96c80d878\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245cd598516ff4889a7555aa96c80d878\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to stand to take a brief call on the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill\u2014the funded family care repeal of Part 4A. It\u2019s abhorrent to me, to my party, and to our Government that Part 4A of the primary legislation is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. This is a shameful legacy of the last Government. Let\u2019s get on with it. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u00227f4bd931f0654104bfac64a8a3a1780f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f4bd931f0654104bfac64a8a3a1780f\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak to the New Zealand Public Health and Disability Amendment Bill at its first reading. Just to set the record straight on some of this, I think that when it comes to the disability sector, it\u2019s incredibly important that they are represented in Parliament, and the select committee process will be an appropriate time for them to talk not only about family caregivers, which is at the heart of what we do for our own families. If a family member is disabled, we look after them\u2014the complex arrangements that need to be made sometimes to help finance those arrangements on a home-base level need to be very carefully thought through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re supporting this bill. We want it through to select committee, and we want to be able to hear from the members of the disability community who are really affected by this and whose lives have been touched by trying to come up with the best possible solutions for their own family members, to surround them not only with love but also with care, and to have the financial ability to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think that the funded family care network which we established in 2013 is something that we as a nation should be proud of. We\u2019re very proud on this side of the House that we did that, and I\u2019d like to commend the work of the Hon Nicky Wagner, who was the Minister for Disability Issues and worked closely with Bill English\u2014Sir Bill English, as he is now\u2014to come up with the social investment approach. We have had the intention and, indeed, the strong desire to ensure that properly constructed structures are put in place but then that they are properly funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI note that, unfortunately, last year\u2019s coalition Budget was a very bad Budget for people with disabilities. There was hardly any money for them. This particular piece of legislation is going to cost a lot, and it needs to be very carefully thought through and then appropriately funded. This coalition Government has failed woefully in its funding of all disability services, and the disability budget has actually gone backwards\u2014and that\u2019s for the first time in five years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe disability advocates that I have spoken to over the past year or two who had asked for last year a $250 million increase received $7 million less last year than they have in the past. So for a coalition Government that virtue-signals like there\u2019s no tomorrow, there does need to be money put down on this so that that is not just building up false hopes but it is actually funding what is needed, as opposed to just talking about it. I mean, to have the disability sector at the lowest levels we have seen as a proportion of Vote Health is a disgrace, and for the smug and the self-satisfied on the other side of the House, they probably need to swallow that pill and do their best to get some more money out of their Minister for what is an essential service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo in, for example, Enabling Good Lives, which Nicky Wagner began, we have a framework with a disability strategy that is all set and ready to go. This coalition Government seems intent on doing\u2014I think you\u2019re up to about the fourth iteration of finding out whether Enabling Good Lives is a good thing. There\u2019ve been pilot projects in the Waikato, for example, that at the time that we left Government in 2017 were all set and proven with their case and ready to go and with the funding. Instead, the disability sector have been telling me loud and clear that instead of getting money for their services, it\u2019s been taken out and put into yet another evaluation of Enabling Good Lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EGet the act together, coalition Government. Put some money into this, put some money and care and concern into the disability sector, and ensure that you put the correct provision in so that Enabling Good Lives, which is the game-changer, which is the way that the future is headed for people in the disability sector in New Zealand\u2014one in four of us have disabilities. We need to do better as a country, we need to do better as a Parliament, and the coalition needs to do better as a Government. So before the triumphant shouting of how fabulous you are with your virtue signalling goes through, we\u2019d like to see some solid money put up instead of tinkering with various things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe caregivers\u2019 package is a very good thing within this piece of legislation. Narrowly focused though it is, this amendment bill, we will support it through, but the coalition Government can expect that we will be paying very close attention to what funding is going to be put into this, because, so far, the coalition\u2019s record on this has been nothing short of disgraceful. Let\u2019s hope that you get organised to actually fund this properly, because the disability sector deserves better. They deserve more and they deserve better consideration than they\u2019ve had from this coalition Government, which has talked a lot and done absolutely nothing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo while I commend this bill to the House, I expect it to come, as National do\u2014we expect it to come with a decent price tag to actually fund it. Don\u2019t just get hopes up falsely and then not fund; get properly funded, and at that point, we\u2019ll perhaps start taking the coalition Government more seriously when it comes to disability matters. But I will support this bill. We will support this bill through to first reading, and we need to look very, very carefully at what the disability sector say. So I commend it to the House, but with reservations. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220abcdf65523c4911aff7b26ae30205be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220abcdf65523c4911aff7b26ae30205be\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Health Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202002198d9d5d49b68a4cbfb26fe9e11a91b826000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"