"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2ed6c8b4e9849a29709263a47369a4d\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 11 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022807fcb7011d746a8bcd6d9090f0235d3\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 11 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb145d4082b94d9c9675615e9af5b33d\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221602cd4a361f4a2f9bc8b96278fdd59f\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Abortion Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220f1996d206d14492b6052a08e67d075f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f1996d206d14492b6052a08e67d075f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I need to advise the House of two corrections to the voting on Part 1 of the Abortion Legislation Bill in yesterday\u2019s committee of the whole House. On the amendment in the name of Dr Deborah Russell on Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 473 to amend clause 7 by inserting new section 19A, the correct vote is Ayes 19 and Noes 99. On the amendment in the name of Chris Penk on SOP 469 to amend clause 7 by amending a new section 20, the correct vote is Ayes 36 and the Noes 82.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EBoth these corrections are the result of one member casting his proxy vote one way and then voting another way in person. [Interruption] Order! Where a vote conflicts in this way, the vote made in person is the one counted. But I will remind members ahead of the continuation of the committee stage on this bill that they are responsible for how their vote is cast and should be certain that directions given to anyone casting a proxy are entirely clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce550d66a09a431489bfd7e7eac7dc91\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8fb43d6f2de4fc19c828d3494d018c0\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e14495530d1940e6a0945a099510fbe3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022341485d077c04cd48b34db4ef6d008bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022341485d077c04cd48b34db4ef6d008bd\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002297170087368b4ef88eb51708f2d5fe2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297170087368b4ef88eb51708f2d5fe2b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, international credit ratings agency Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s (S\u0026amp;P) published its latest forecast for Asia-Pacific economies, factoring in the potential impacts from the global economic disruption caused by COVID-19. S\u0026amp;P forecasts the New Zealand economy to grow at 2 percent in 2020, rising to 2.9 percent in 2021. This is in line with other guidance from economists in recent weeks. It is important to note that this is a rapidly changing situation. Treasury is currently undertaking detailed scenario analysis of how the global disruption from COVID-19 might feed through to the New Zealand economy as part of the Budget process. The good news is that the New Zealand economy is in good shape as we go into this: net Government debt is at 19.5 percent of GDP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022601a333709fc4eda87898deea3f4a4f4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, National.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc63b5efe9644bd94779a5e0e6d9dc0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and lower than what we inherited, Mr Bridges. We have forecast surpluses and data showing solid underlying momentum in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc61ee6358614f4884bf1419bb13ad13\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on how COVID-19 is affecting different parts of the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c6bcdc9a5b4e3aa8636819cf16d844\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Reports from the business community and official data show that the global disruption caused by COVID-19 is feeding through differently to different parts of the economy. The tourism and hospitality sectors and parts of the forestry industry continue to report the most significant impacts. Yesterday, Ministers Twyford, O\u2019Connor, and Nash visited the Nelson region to be updated from businesses on the ground about the impacts of COVID-19. They have reported back that the region is in good shape, in part due to its diversified economy. Companies with exposure to China, like King Salmon, reported that while there had been some initial issues for their exports to China, business was rebounding, and Ministers were told that local businesses in those areas were actually concerned about a shortage of workers. Of course, we will continue to work with businesses in the Nelson region just as we are with businesses right across New Zealand, particularly in areas like Tai R\u0101whiti, to ensure we support continued employment, income support, and redeployment options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022310a85c627b3433abc41446e049c9a9a\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government supporting all of New Zealand to work together to respond to the economic impacts of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab0bcdd0fcc4c05b35c8394cf08a99e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The best way to mitigate the economic impacts of COVID-19 continues to be our strong and world-leading public health response. Simple but effective tasks like washing your hands properly, sneezing into the inside of your elbow, and staying away from work or public events if you are sick is vitally important, and I think all New Zealanders can be proud of the personal responsibility New Zealanders are showing in regard to this. We continue to urge businesses to remain as flexible as they can for people who are sick, and we continue to work with them and business groups and unions on the business continuity package. This is not just a Government response; it is not just a business or individual response; it is a New Zealand response, and that\u2019s where our values as a country are showing through: everybody prepared to muck in and do their bit to work together to respond to this outbreak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5098fa58f24432f9d14624fd93b1346\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002228a5440dfacb42eebc634f3443a9adde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228a5440dfacb42eebc634f3443a9adde\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022780a3c481f5844f2b18be56eb952915f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022780a3c481f5844f2b18be56eb952915f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, especially the proactive work we are undertaking in response to COVID-19. On Monday, Cabinet agreed to quarantine measures which will mean medical officers of health can quarantine vessels or passengers coming to New Zealand if they believe there are passengers with coronavirus on board. This is in addition to the measures the Government has already implemented, which include travel restrictions, self-isolation, health staff meeting individuals disembarking from international flights at the border, and ensuring the public have information on how to keep healthy. The message I would share with this House is that we all have a role to play, and that does include all members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a68c9e848b46cf8d674f7e23c83d05\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has she received on the number of job losses from the minimum wage increase on 1 April?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d56c886a0494953882b206b6366019c\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring specifically to any impacts in more recent weeks, we have not received any advice in that regard. As I said in this House yesterday, the most important thing that we can do through this period for businesses affected by COVID-19 is provide them with targeted support. A roll-back of the minimum wage not only hurts low-income workers; it won\u2019t keep people in a job if they are experiencing a massive downturn in custom. Someone could earn less and still be out of the job, and that helps no one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5c5ca1ea914f76b35d057bb202603c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that increasing the minimum wage on 1 April will increase the number of people who will lose their job by at least 6,500 people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224141e5e48015486ca78e799c76d4365f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has consistently given advice to successive Governments\u2014including the member\u2019s own\u2014that every minimum wage increase will lead to job loss. Contrary to that advice, when we have increased the minimum wage, we have seen some of the lowest unemployment in this country in a decade. We stand by the fact that we have supported up to 200,000 people getting additional wages because of those increases, and minimum wage increases have a stimulatory effect in the economy\u2014the last one up to a 0.1 percent increase for GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad065f325a1647408f6f8699b08b64cb\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Has the advice on the number of job losses as a result of the minimum wage increase on 1 April been updated to reflect the additional impact of coronavirus, which will mean many more thousands of job losses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f078747fdd4c4880410e557cbf4ca4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I already answered that, and if the member listened, I said no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219df530f1f4943ec8e0f165a1b284af2\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she understand her top priority is to keep New Zealanders in jobs and off the dole?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237c17a5b26904c91b29d7e9e5e9b06ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, my top priority is keeping New Zealanders healthy, and that is the best thing that we can do for our economy as well. The public health response comes first and foremost, and in addition to that\u2014because that is our best economic defence\u2014and at the same time, we are getting ahead of the wider economic impacts. Not only have we rolled out those business advisory services, worked alongside banks to make sure that they\u2019re supporting cash-flow issues, deployed our regional teams from the Ministry of Social Development, removed stand-down periods, and we are working on a business continuity package to make sure that businesses can keep their doors open through this period. I think it is utterly unreasonable and politicking of that member instead of supporting initiatives that will support business, instead calling for low-wage workers to earn less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69e6d549dec41dba131596fda85309c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to what guidelines she has taken from other Western democracies dealing with coronavirus\u2014[Interruption]\u2014and where has she seen an Opposition politician attacking a Government for the effects of economic and social disasters of coronavirus? Where in the Western World has she seen that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eda4077b82842c4b84337e6fa81355a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, wait. I want to know who it was who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225575830332ef41cb9d82c3e374a47934\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8fdee2ef853490f9922ec0459ed70d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is responsible for the punishment that\u2019s going to occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0f191c9f41a43698dbebe92a4cc3611\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I have been looking around the world at different responses, both from a public health response but also an economic response. Most of the democracies we compare ourselves to have not put out specific packages like the one we are currently preparing. We have seen Australia talk about an infrastructure package\u2014members in this House will remember it was only a few weeks ago that we put out a $12 billion infrastructure package that will have a stimulatory effect in our economy. I am confident, based on what I\u2019ve seen abroad, that in terms of our economic response and our public health response, we are doing what is in the best interests of New Zealanders. In fact, we have 100 percent contact with all of the contacts relevant to our current known cases in New Zealand of COVID-19. That kind of contact tracing is critical to our current public health response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab44b8513284a8e949105171064c2c9\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the advice the Leader of the Opposition refers to does not predict job losses but predicts a potential restraint on job growth, but, in fact, still predicts job growth in 2020 of over 43,000 jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022168c4ed763d944dda3c5932067b0bfb4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member well knows, of course, that we\u2019ve had in excess of 80,000 additional jobs in the economy. So again, that is advice that that member would have received every time that Government increased the minimum wage as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c62550990c4f4f29b57cfe366080fcaf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she understand that to keep New Zealanders in jobs, we need businesses in business, and that means halting the record-high minimum wage increases about to happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5b674435f8f4f559fe11340e66b2a3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: For those businesses who are currently experiencing significant downturn in their bookings and in their patronage, what they need is much more than what the member is suggesting. They need wage subsidy and support, they need support with cash flow, they need support with provisional tax. That is a much bigger, more targeted response, and it doesn\u2019t hurt low-wage workers at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fd6c206a5cd4f5184c8cb679aaff1c0\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have a specific COVID-19 health plan in writing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bc4f19926234920ad015b4e41d9f9e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I want to read from page 1 of the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan, which states\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766e24c6608d491fbe3ffd3ac4e335ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4f0e7fdc6e740cf92644443b655c0a5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked about a specific COVID-19 health plan. The Prime Minister\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223512f74cdbf34e7ba9df92c8eed304fe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. The member knows well that he can\u2019t take that sort of point of order until the answer is completed. The member can\u2019t anticipate a complete answer. He\u2019s been here for at least nine years and he should know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ce1fdaed2f422fbe0f36ba6d43deef\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Twelve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f334d62f9da4769951aa3a230948bfc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Twelve, I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b474e8085174226843a6f7314f16627\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I was saying, the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan is comprehensive and states\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251bcdecc6bc4ada88fa648e409463d5\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a COVID plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a82910dab647fdb781209818c1b7b8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if the member would like to listen\u2014on page 1, \u201CThe New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan could reasonably apply to other respiratory pandemics, such as SARS.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221106cf0f8a04a9bae68eea3bdd3ed35\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: UK, Aussie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e16dc19f43142d79abea867b0115343\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is totally relevant. Secondly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c33e65e37aca4cdab44854d303137a1f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s generic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc4797db78643338f91a65dc7ae3b78\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is criticising it, he may wish to reflect it was produced in mid-2017 under his Government. Finally, I again want to point out this is a global issue, not the time for scaremongering and politicking like that member continues to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbae4adb2e5f48d2b393cad64d65b3fd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223151b7b8d3c14e2587766e6a7dd21602\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290383c081dfb4cb18c7ee49708fd62ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd0c458f08f4f88ac2fb6392615efd1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264c7af825d6545d2a60d9249469459c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ba53e70f734cd6a32123806b6a6ed8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. The member was drowned out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b66e82db7649ab9639584f99aa361c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You mistook me for someone else, I know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4cc06e24926454282db7f60cfbfde47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That might be a miracle. It might be one of my wishes, but it didn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c5f2af64a8744fc9ac3e77bf8b00b2d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Anyway, supplementary question to the Prime Minister: in helping business and workers in this country, will she rule out an increase in GST, which Mr Bridges today would not rule out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244eafbffe30d48ac8071b925c2042299\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e32139dc7b0f45699f3229b10edec58b\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister regard specific questions about COVID plans as \u201Cpoliticking\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a64a997c89e340de9dc4f663df3a42dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I regard any suggestion that our public health system is not well equipped to deal with COVID-19 to not be in the best interests or a genuine question, because that member well knows that that influenza plan, which has been in place since 2017, is comprehensive. It\u2019s designed for exactly these situations, and not only that; that member also knows we have experts who are, of course, tailoring all of the evidence that we have around COVID-19 specifically to our response now. That is why we are using, for instance, all of the self-isolation and testing regimes that we are\u2014specifically for COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e99c482db742449c582b75c486d65a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: When will New Zealanders see a specific COVID-19 plan as Australians have, as British have, and other countries as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a99eae6451c4c838f92fe44b8531aaf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s already in operation, and to suggest otherwise is irresponsible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e17be9f9851947b78bc8d231e7401075\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So are reports from officials that they will develop a specific plan, because it\u2019s necessary, wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ee1aa4ccc9419293c7e5ab0c9eb57b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d82c5eb0df6145f389366b1148fd6182\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00224084c9df8a5b4901987e7dfaac389a9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224084c9df8a5b4901987e7dfaac389a9c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229cca2460e8444ac9a083ecff60dcee8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cca2460e8444ac9a083ecff60dcee8b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and in particular I stand by my statement that I\u2019m proud of how New Zealanders are taking responsibility and working together as we respond to the impacts from the global disruption caused by COVID-19. I also stand by my policy to work constructively with businesses and workers as we continue our ongoing response to COVID-19 through the business continuity package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314f43a7621047fcbb4e2bb646a21c68\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: When will money actually reach affected businesses from any short-term wage subsidy he is planning as part of the business continuity package?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e4dc186fecc4de7a337465ec8db524a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we announced after Cabinet on Monday, we will be releasing the full details next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f28fdbab13d6448fbe7c95d82886bf3f\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So can he be more precise: when will money actually reach the affected businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ef9002aa654ec3a819efcb3a3193b7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We will be moving as swiftly as we possibly can in designing a scheme that is appropriate to this situation, which is a targeted scheme. Businesses are already able, working through IRD and the Ministry of Social Development in terms of the support of their staff, to access money. There are businesses\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c844761d004aa299b69b67a12e0f56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. Some members think this is important, and I want to be able to hear the response. I think it is irresponsible for members, having asked questions, to shout down a Minister who is attempting, in this case, to give a straight answer. Question No. 4\u2014Jan Tinetti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb6227a161341dc814fecc792d25c76\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faee3fd349524427a38ee2ce8c4c72ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271590762c9044d4295542796dd1a4754\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I was raising a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f19e4a603cc4ae1a25785337d37ae85\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Paul Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bf071737f09441fb0ea64f472e247e4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: I think that the reason why there was noise was that I\u2019d asked a specific question about when we would have a date of when money would reach affected businesses from the subsidy, and he was talking about all sorts of other things not relating to the subsidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3fc8cae801a416c97279595a142af02\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And why does the member think that\u2019s a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd1d511592b49e0806fba1016a4583a\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Largely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ed05c0f6ab94285a862c0315073914b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Give us a rough idea of which Standing Order or Speaker\u2019s ruling the member\u2019s referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235ec4953488b466a85f2088b318b6384\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, surely the Standing Order that can be given that is relevant to the public interest and the public good would be a good place to start for a question. To simply say that we\u2019re making an announcement next week about an announcement that we made yesterday, or some kind of never-never, doesn\u2019t help all those tourist businesses in New Zealand that are suffering right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c60cbd23da643e9b15f60a61f8fc92f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. The member will resume his seat. What the member\u2019s indicating is he doesn\u2019t like the answer. That is generally the case with questions of this type in the House and has been for the last 30 years since I\u2019ve been here. And that is not a point of order. Mr Brownlee knows it\u2019s not a point of order, and he\u2019s testing my patience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89cd6fbdecb48ca89f339c8685fd4aa\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd363c9628fd4c228ef4be6fd36e576a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019d called the next question. So the member wants to go back now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a5a8e1518cd4f3c9d7bdbb14e67c752\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bf1b91ec48641009f27be5b08b15cbf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I will\u2014no, I\u2019m not going to seek leave. I\u2019ll go back. I\u2019ll be generous to him. It\u2019s against my inclinations but I will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7db8f18785641e5a4fab8d2f63cbd7d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is he worried that the window to save jobs is rapidly closing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b4271e63a04e1dba00512ea792b0a3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As we speak, there is staff from the Ministry of Social Development and the Inland Revenue Department working with businesses. Banks right across New Zealand, which I would have thought the member would have realised are the first port of call for businesses, are working closely with businesses to make sure they stay in employment. Right around the country, the response from New Zealanders to this has been good. We are developing this package in line with business expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b997473083d540e6a403f6dd980443c7\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Will a further substantial increase to the minimum wage on 1\u00A0April add costs to many businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af815268df984e97bd5118884c6f7121\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The increase to the minimum wage has been well signalled. Most businesses will have factored it in already. It is an important element of making sure that low-income New Zealanders are able to spend and provide for their families, and, actually, it\u2019s in small businesses right across New Zealand that that money will be spent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bf0130590ca4d3f9ff01c7eaeaa169a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Regardless of whether people knew it was coming, will a further substantial increase in the minimum wage on 1 April add costs to many businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d4a15e52c2b4cc0978cacd8f3e14586\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Different businesses are affected in different ways by changes that the Government makes. What I do know is that when the minimum wage goes up, as it did under the previous Government and as it has under this Government, people spend more, and for many of those individual businesses, they will come out well and truly ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224353b2e0bc944f80a560333fa038f2c0\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he adding costs to businesses at a time when many are struggling to keep their employees in employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c10315ec8a43d5af41d513121bc9e5\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I totally reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. What we are doing is working alongside the business community to make sure that they are prepared for what may come and supporting low-income New Zealanders to have the money that they need to spend to feed their families, which supports demand in the economy. The member opposed the minimum wage increase for ideological reasons. Now is not the time to politick about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f48024959f242e385e560e5ca51d8a2\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement rejecting the idea that this Government will increase GST; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a252985c121343f88135d91582eff30c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I can absolutely say that, and I was quite surprised earlier today to see the Leader of the Opposition fail to rule that out, but I guess anything\u2019s possible with Simon Bridges. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e08f77942464d8c9d84ec5efd8e17bc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Is the member finished now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa66dd91d13140f2adb321ad6c70e3a4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002200bfed84b81f4c458597ae89ca914b19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200bfed84b81f4c458597ae89ca914b19\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to support schools to manage the impact of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9a09c94fcad4deeab8429a45f9c1f65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9a09c94fcad4deeab8429a45f9c1f65\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is supporting schools with links to cases, and schools in general, by making sure that the most up-to-date information is provided to them. Another special bulletin went out on Friday evening to all schools and early learning services across the country, reiterating the key facts about COVID-19 in New Zealand. The bulletin set out the agreed protocol that the Ministry of Education and regional health services have\u2014in particular, who will help schools through each stage of the process if a school, or someone associated with a school, comes into contact with COVID-19. Principals and school leaders have also been provided with templates that they can use to send information to their parent communities to reiterate the current facts around COVID-19 and the key health messages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232095f177c5b4dd5b6ca4a1eed776705\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What support is the Government providing specifically to supporting schools in Auckland with links to cases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbb858c35467475d891f62b86cb928a3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: There are currently four schools in Auckland with links to cases. The Ministry of Education, with support from Auckland Regional Public Health Service, are in frequent contact with the four principals in all of those schools to help them with any queries. Ministry support teams have also been offered to other schools to help on the ground if needed. Information has been provided to the wider Auckland regional schools to ensure there is transparency and that everyone is getting the same messages. The key message for parents to hear is that in the case of all four of these schools, the advice from Health is that it is safe for students to be at school and that those students have not been exposed to COVID-19. As has always been the case, when a child is unwell, they should not go to school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48508a5e76a4f8185b83cb42ff0c7ad\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to support the most accurate information going out to concerned parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214420dbc58bb45808b29d38e0c97b5f5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Education are working with Auckland Regional Public Health Services to provide tailored communication in a timely manner for parents where that is needed. Government agencies are responding with the latest evidence on COVID-19, and it\u2019s important that everybody in public positions reaffirms this information. We understand and appreciate that parents will voice their concerns, but the very best thing that parents should be doing is getting accurate information from experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0142bd672204ef1883074336767e174\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he seen from principals on the Government\u2019s support for schools over the last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0ace0f6e43428db2f3c2e0c68e35bb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen some positive feedback from a very unlikely source, in fact. Auckland Grammar\u2019s principal, Tim O\u2019Connor, a known advocate for the Government, has said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f8db3cc4884b73be749eac39315656\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! No irony.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c8b71cf9a0438594c49e830cadf8f8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ha, ha!\u2014that the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health have been superb in the advice that they have been giving to schools. I do want to take this opportunity to thank all four school principals for the degree of professionalism they have shown in responding to these cases. It gives great confidence that our education system will be able to respond in that way if there are other cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220645fbe35b394829a13363fb5d6591cd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002276f5886763f44d329eb019fd597cc9d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276f5886763f44d329eb019fd597cc9d0\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan describe the conditions for moving to the \u201CStamp It Out\u201D phase as sustained community-level outbreaks in two or more countries overseas and a confirmed human case in New Zealand; if so, have those conditions been met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9b6f638fa5445d7ae651b68dca8263e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9b6f638fa5445d7ae651b68dca8263e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s important to continue to keep COVID-19 out of New Zealand at the same time as our public health experts work to contain and stamp out the five confirmed cases we have had. The current version of the New Zealand pandemic plan was drafted under the previous Government and has been tested under this Government. It\u2019s a timely reminder of the importance of everyone playing their part\u2014politicians, businesses, and the public\u2014in following that plan in response to COVID-19. So in answer to the member\u2019s questions, yes and yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21ffaa314174b8dbbf03a062b5139ad\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: When did New Zealand move to the Stamp It Out phase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e2900599f99423587eca90ee7bf3ab6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It is not only possible but it is, in fact, inevitable that our response to this rapidly evolving situation will span more than one phase of the pandemic plan at a time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8c2a7df66644096a9897402aab6775d\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the Stamp It Out phase includes an action to provide customised information to overseas visitors in New Zealand, and if so, why are the health cards provided at airports dated August 2014?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e446fd4ddbfa4be1bc671576012353e8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The framework that the pandemic plan provides allows for a large number of decisions to be taken in response to specific situations, in response to the first part of the member\u2019s question. In response to the second part of the member\u2019s question, the advice that has been provided does pertain to symptoms of that illness and other illnesses about which the Healthline would like to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2fe37646a07442eb9378dcfb7123da2\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government considered exit assessment procedures and advice on the risk of exporting disease, as set out in the Stamp It Out phase, particularly given the number of Pacific visitors planning to attend the Pasifika Festival this weekend?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b64ff1fae845768afb87d5bff52f1b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: We are receiving advice all the time, and I\u2019m expecting to receive more advice on that matter soon. What I would say is that New Zealand acted decisively and early to put border restrictions in place and expectations of self-isolation, and that has meant that we are amongst the best-placed countries in the world in respect to COVID-19. Part of doing that was noticing and being cognisant of our concern for and desire to protect our Pacific neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221538bc6dbfe0492d8b7a5da2b87f404a\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Given that answer, has he seen the suite of measures just announced by the Australian Federal Government, including increased travel bans for Italy, and what of those does the New Zealand Government consider implementing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0be1248fdb4b41af800cf34d68838b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I will take advice from officials on the Australians\u2019 moves. Of course, our advice is updated daily from the technical advisory group. The definition, I\u2019m aware, is being broadened. I would also note that, of course, we moved ahead of Australia on restrictions around Iran, and that has proven to be a good move. We are acting on the best scientific and medical advice, on what doctors advise, at every stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022580e1f23fcba4a1d8987b5a1342f1879\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Ministry of Health preparing a specific COVID-19 plan, as was advised by officials in a briefing to Opposition MPs yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbdb4aba8cba409492b1c037ad482aa1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, the pandemic plan that was drafted in 2017 under the previous Government and has been tested under the current Government continues to provide the framework, absolutely\u2014though, of course, at every stage, we are going to tailor that advice to the situation around COVID-19. We are learning day by day new things about COVID-19, and because we\u2019ve taken those stringent and early measures, we are better placed to plan for the situation as it evolves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213749fdb7040460d89a6c4b81142d12e\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister did not address the question of whether a specific COVID-19 plan was being prepared, as was advised to members yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac052987008f499f851eff4ca96df7ff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I thought he said at the beginning that the plan that had been there since 2017 was being adapted on a daily basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002288d9c3bd493f4a1087ed65e69bd52504\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022952992825ac242e5838646e70e26bb9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022952992825ac242e5838646e70e26bb9e\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What steps has the Ministry of Social Development taken to support the Government\u2019s response to COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022423ca9d997534cb689fe405ec85063a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022423ca9d997534cb689fe405ec85063a7\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has already stood up rapid response teams in the four most impacted regions: the East Coast, Waikato, Northland, and Bay of Plenty regions. Additional teams will be stood up in additional regions before the end of the week, including Auckland; Central; Nelson, Marlborough, and West Coast; Southern; and Taranaki, King Country, and Whanganui. These teams are actively contacting employers and working with them to support their staff, explain the services and supports MSD can offer, and provide support for clients affected by COVID-19. We have also agreed to the temporary removal of stand-down periods from 23 March. This will ensure faster access to financial assistance for those that apply and are eligible for a main benefit. As I said in the House yesterday, my focus has been on ensuring that MSD remains poised and ready to support those who are able to stay in work, find alternative work, or enter into further upskilling and training if and when required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf9f8bb80ff4b3f993251510ca37952\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What other steps has MSD taken to support the Government\u2019s response to COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49a2a79632b4b9fa055bc381a077218\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: MSD continues to work closely with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) to develop a wage subsidy for employers, as announced by the Prime Minister on Monday. Further advice will be provided to Ministers by the end of this week for discussion at Cabinet on Monday. MSD is also working with the Ministry for Primary Industries and MBIE to explore redeployment options to support people who have been displaced or have reduced hours to work in other local industries. MSD continues to work alongside other Government departments as a key agency supporting the Government\u2019s response to COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca3d72e2071a43d3a616d7a38c1d2e13\u0022\u003EPriyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240891b8fb2974649ae1061a2fcc20b33\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Ensuring that the welfare system is fit for purpose, which includes supporting people during adverse events by addressing financial hardship and supporting people into work, or upskilling and training, is top of my agenda as Minister for Social Development. It\u2019s important to note that the additional measures I\u2019ve mentioned also build on this Government\u2019s investments in previous years to enhance income adequacy and support people into work through the indexation of main benefits, the lift in abatement rate thresholds, and increasing work-focused case management. All of these measures combined mean that in an adverse event such as the outbreak of COVID-19, the welfare system is better placed to support New Zealanders that might need our help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022732d1cdc9e6c49c6ae8aa37f13b1d54c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00223c2a8e68b46c47a6976fa07a7645eebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c2a8e68b46c47a6976fa07a7645eebf\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What advice, if any, has he received on the impact of the 2020 minimum wage increase on job losses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00225d40d291e4d54ccd80e773f995dd9b03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d40d291e4d54ccd80e773f995dd9b03\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve received no advice that the minimum wage increase will lead to job losses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3b6edd3063c49ad9abc7afc02e903c5\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Is the estimate of 6,500 fewer jobs as a consequence of the increase concerning to him?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8b65921c2144cafb0bc7fed37f3c021\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: It would be, if that was correct, but the member is wrong. What the advice shows is that there may be 6,500 fewer jobs created, but what it also shows is the prediction that 43,600 jobs will be created this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242377b5226e34367aaf11521ccce903b\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Does it concern him that official advice suggests that the minimum wage increase will impose a $300 million cost on businesses, at a time when businesses are already struggling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351146d9d0cd44dda3eba9341c9b7ea5\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s important that we see that money flowing around the economy. At this time, when we need economic stimulus, one of the best things we can do is make sure that low-income people have money in their pockets so they can spend it in the small businesses in their community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223242339f1cb64afc80000b35851e68b8\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: What has happened to the unemployment rate since this Government accelerated increases to the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229468de3fff1c4ed8a2dda14ca6f35ac3\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, when we came to Government, unemployment was 4.7 percent; it is now 4 percent. I can also tell the House that the underutilisation rate has fallen to 10 percent, the lowest in a decade, and wages are rising at the fastest rate in a decade, at 3.6 percent\u2014that\u2019s well above the rate of inflation. All of this puts New Zealanders in an excellent position to weather the economic effects of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f76d80190f14ae79f412a8cc0a9b584\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Has he requested any further or specific advice on the impact of this minimum wage increase on 1 April on job losses as a result of the economic impact of COVID-19, and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad674f9b8c56464b82ce5ce3dcd8764d\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: What this Government is focused on is supporting businesses and workers. That\u2019s why we have acted quickly to support the tourism and fishing industries\u2014an extra $4 million for the regional business partner programme as well as support for workers and businesses that they will get from the Ministry of Social Development and IRD. Cabinet has approved work to develop a business continuity package targeted at affected businesses, workers, and regions. We can get through this without penalising the lowest-paid workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44b002fd9e64faa9c8e2bea8eacaa4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister: is he prepared to share with the National Party the experience of Lee Kuan Yew\u2019s Singapore, Taiwan, and the five Nordic countries who have denied and decried and destroyed this shibboleth decades ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a57e0010db7743e29a21ab8e73312fb9\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I would enjoy that conversation. I have to say, New Zealand is unlikely to take the kind of steps that Singapore used to short the labour market by having extraordinary increases to the minimum wage, but we will, in a measured way, work alongside businesses to ensure that working people in New Zealand get a fair deal and we focus on being a more sustainable, more productive, and more inclusive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd261eaee57e436f895d04511abafde7\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: So the answer to the last question was no, he hasn\u2019t sought any specific advice at all on the impacts of the 1 April minimum wage increase on job losses as a result of the economic impact of COVID-19\u2014no advice at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223185c4d3ac504903b0f2c1dadd7ef477\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb2560251a4424987cff54a1491720f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, very good point. Question No. 8, Jenny Marcroft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022608c84c61854457f87cc03829e63fac9\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked him to confirm, was his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37e6673bde44e1eaeb32918122f5c8b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, you didn\u2019t. You said \u201Cso\u201D. So is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227467924bef384a31bb590c83d7f2663b\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSo has he\u201D\u2014can he confirm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c360e9da141842f6837df8962d7da81b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231408e9206eb4bb99204f33f6a69d17b\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSo is the answer\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0315b32265462594b9fa9485d3257e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, the member will resume his seat. There was not\u2014Jonathan Hunt used to say it in a way like an old quizmaster, and so did Lockwood Smith: the questions start with a question word, and \u201Cso\u201D is not a question word. Jenny Marcroft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b27b18b95a640098f015911614db7a4\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247c81c32f12a4622bd8f784d339d270c\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: I had one more supplementary, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022535b7723e5f146608bfedc5ff1c6cc19\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: So?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125e2583175a483d8a855de8f3a634bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. I think, in this case it\u2019s \u201Cslow\u201D, but we\u2019ll let the member go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba7584a1356344c8bd321446ed1e2cfc\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Does he agree with the economist Shamubeel Eaqub on the minimum wage increase in respect of COVID-19\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CI think they should delay it. It will add significant increase to wage costs for hospitality businesses that will be reeling from the tourism fallout and potential recession.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c3daf718d145ceb6c9f6d19afb105c\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: I note that various economists have had various views. I agree with former BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander, who said that delaying the increase would not be the right move because doing so would affect businesses across the economy, including those feeling little effect from coronavirus. \u201CIt would not be a targeted response, and asking people on the lowest levels of earned income to sacrifice\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f753044ae114845a89152a5bf42223b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Seniors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022e90e6ba9fd7d4ee1a6beca0056c19707\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e90e6ba9fd7d4ee1a6beca0056c19707\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Seniors: What actions is she taking to promote the use of the SuperGold card in regional New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2f9dc30ae2471987cbe4a85fc697a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s sending me on a trip, is she?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d64199a5f44c49fc93990cf2fc0de3ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d64199a5f44c49fc93990cf2fc0de3ba\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Seniors):\u003C/span\u003E Ha! On Monday, I was in Nelson to mark the start of an initiative to boost the SuperGold card in both the Nelson and Manawat\u016B-Whanganui regions. Yesterday, approximately 5,000 people in Nelson and 17,000 in the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui area were emailed to let them know about the SuperGold discounts and offers close to them. These are the first two areas where specific, dedicated regional pages have been created on the SuperGold website so that the cardholders can more easily see how they can stretch their dollar in businesses just around the corner. In Nelson, for example, there are around 200 businesses offering SuperGold deals and discounts, and in the Manawat\u016B-Whanganui, that figure is closer to 500. This Government is dedicated to helping our 65-pluses get the best value from their SuperGold card via the new app and the website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022778d6af9feee4ef4b7e31d98becc0ac5\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How have New Zealand\u2019s over-65s reacted to the SuperGold app and website? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224984e13259b247beadad772efaa77e61\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: I think some of those people who are cynical about older people\u2019s use of technology would be surprised. We know that around half of our 65-pluses use smartphones and over half a million use the internet. More than 108,000 people have now downloaded the SuperGold app, and there have been well over 340,000 visits to the upgraded website since 1 October, when these were launched by myself and the Rt Hon Winston Peters. We are going to continue to upgrade and make improvements to both the app and the website to continue to ensure they are both user-friendly. I want to ensure that every SuperGold cardholder knows that there are opportunities close to them to gain a discount, regardless of where they live in New Zealand. It\u2019s also a way of reminding people that the app is here, it\u2019s easy to download, and it was designed with over-65-year-olds to ensure that it is easy to use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041996b2e8044e2bb9517e4ebfc44a7c\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What has the reaction from business been? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fde5fa85315a4a898555757453a89662\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, it\u2019s been exceptionally positive. There are 775,000 consumers who are over 65 years old\u2014775,000 consumers who have a SuperGold card. The businesses I talk to recognise that the card, the website, and the app provide them with a great way of reaching this group. During the process of revitalising the card and building the app, 500 new businesses signed up to provide SuperGold offers, and another 117 have joined since 1 October. There will be a business recruitment campaign in April and May, and I\u2019m hoping that this will see more firms join the SuperGold family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223680b98447b4746b3cbf5b006d40d02\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2014no more? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae799163c24b434ab7cd093e58f80adf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Regional Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002215b2bbdb3924401cb293352cd57700d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215b2bbdb3924401cb293352cd57700d5\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Why did officials from the Provincial Development Unit spend $1.03 million in the 2018/19 year on travel, accommodation, meals, and other expenses, and how many launch events for Provincial Growth Fund projects did this spending relate to? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226297bdf6bd084a2891ad1b041655ab8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226297bdf6bd084a2891ad1b041655ab8f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development: The member\u2019s question is factually incorrect by $366,000. In total, $844,631 was spent on these expenses in the 2018-19 year; $187,389 on accommodation, meals, and incidentals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a68e7097234503a73771ad1a68bccf\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What about the second leg of the question, which was about launch events for the Provincial Growth Fund projects? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225deb36799774f17a5ca8e4d8f04480c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, if there are two legs to a question and the premise upon which the second leg of the question is the first leg of the question and the Minister has said that the first leg of the question is wrong, then he can\u2019t really answer the second part of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b86c8d7ce2214f61aaeaa5f35f2efae2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd2018c1de44dc5bd9e6ef8f6fa4c10\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022252b3912bdd548e2a0dbd2cf0285b4aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed013278bea4e51b492ccad4c91b187\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219888c00bea84040ac0d3f749953015a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s winning at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f3681ac23a64fb0a458b6a7e746f443\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253bde0bbe38c486cb62f88e6af18d19e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t accept the submission of the Leader of the House. The fact that the first part is not absolutely accurate does not rule out the second part. If the answer is something less than the first part, the second part can stand, even if there is an assumption in there that it all relates to launch events, which itself I don\u2019t think has been authenticated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206148b48239940e2a8f47fd0941b8cc4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, these events are not parked up in Sydenham or Fendalton or, dare I say it, Remuera and Epsom; they are out in the real world, from Kait\u0101ia to Invercargill, where we have people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284baab767feb4305887d3ce415fbf5fa\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not real? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212276942616444198c64d37408776de4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014placed all over the country, and despite that, on the ground\u2014I know you haven\u2019t been out and about in Epsom. You wouldn\u2019t know what a hammer looks like, or a shovel, or, for that matter, what a business looks like. He has no business experience at all\u2014at all. But my point is that in this year, 52 funding announcements were set around these events\u201452. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e22ac9dddf1c4c868bf5016c12d2764d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How did a unit of just over 100 people manage to rack up spending on flights and dinners and hotels of a million dollars in just a year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ebe22ca8df14e1ea5f61fa9ea593136\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, again the member\u2019s got his figures wrong. The figures are $844,000. So that\u2019s not a million dollars. But I know that his only background experience is selling tobacco, so what would he know about a real business. Snapchat that. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234825b7da46842e5bade069ce7ecaa8e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f753c65715c442ebebb74f58f0d71ee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, hang on. I want some settling and I want to think about that one, but, while I\u2019m thinking about it, I\u2019ll hear from Mr Brownlee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229462ca763c8e4d8e85ff5b883d37f69e\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Deputy Prime Minister is speaking on behalf of the Minister who has a delegation for regional development. The Minister for Regional Economic Development has answered written questions providing the numbers that are being used by my colleague Mr Bishop in this question and were provided to the Clerk\u2019s Office in authentication of the primary question. Are we to take it now that the Minister answering for the Minister is saying the Minister himself was wrong all along?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d72ec047c804cb68886ea8609298f10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On that particular question, there\u2019s clearly a matter of debate, and there may be an inaccuracy or people might be using different definitions, and I\u2019d remind the member that the Deputy Prime Minister, who is currently acting to answer this, can occasionally work things around to a different way of defining things or pick up figures in different ways\u2014he has some experience in it. But, if there\u2019s a clear error, then I would expect either the Minister answering the question or, on the next occasion he comes to the House, the Minister in charge to deal with it. Having said that, while Mr Brownlee was on his feet having called a point of order, the Deputy Prime Minister continued and I think made an unbecoming reference to a member, and he will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7bb053976cd420ba826175f1659d817\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. Can I answer the question? [Interruption] Can I answer the question, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b756e78659436baaf6ed7bf808ac27\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. I\u2019m just trying to work my way back\u2014yes, there was an interruption, so yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3362b5a55cb4e779b410c824c93886f\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: He keeps being personally abusive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022030cdddbc78f435cb78bc3ff13ce36fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, listen to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222533151f4030492a95c0e861fca51fcb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. I made a ruling\u2014all right?\u2014and my ruling was the member was interrupted by a point of order. I don\u2019t expect my ruling to be criticised by the member from her chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002263776108-58dc-4cab-baf1-95282c61d0de\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223af7ff9aebed4856bdeebaacbf8770af\u0022\u003EHon Paula Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I certainly was not questioning your ruling in one way or the other. I was making the point that all the Minister does when answering is be personally abusive because he doesn\u2019t have answers. But that\u2019s not questioning you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe99c32756046c5a173b60e00d6066e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s still not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022282ef493215544868513411084d95b6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Back to sanity. The costs of the Provincial Growth Fund\u2019s development travel unit and accommodation are reflective of a dynamic programme which engages with the provinces and the regions and does not leave them to rot, stagnate, and decay. Now, here\u2019s the challenge: in contrast, 20 Cabinet Ministers in last year\u2019s Cabinet spent $1.2 million\u2014that\u2019s 20 Cabinet Ministers\u2014116 officials, in the last year of comparison, spent $844,000. Now, the travel costs are the lowest admin rate possibly in the Western World\u2019s democratic history\u20140.028 percent for a $3 billion programme. Stop being so mealy-mouthed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed419e32e1f94e2c83a02140891d456c\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What steps, if any, is he taking to rein in the travel activities of the Provincial Development Unit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0abf9fd9dc9425b8b26cd03e575a96f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, frugality and thrift is our middle name, and we spend all of our time telling our officials not to waste money, as they were wont to do under a prior administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f613131bb0984c90af23dd12a7a315e0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How many staff attended the event to mark the reopening of the Napier to Wairoa rail line in June last year, which so far has had the grand total of three trains run down it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1493d82ec54062ada4f65e8912e1d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, that the member wanted to have an answer to that question, given there have been so many\u2014that is, scores and scores of events\u2014as to how many turned up to this one event, was an endeavour not seeking an answer but just to showboat in Parliament. However, what I can say is there were literally hundreds and hundreds\u2014dare I say it, thousands\u2014lining the railways from Wairoa to Napier as it was reopened. I know that because I\u2019ve seen all the photographs and all the pictures. And, then, of course, you\u2019ve got all the local government politicians and mayors, mainly whom are National, saying it\u2019s a fantastic and very sound idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200d3ace1c4d84d7e892b6293efcabe84\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why are the hundreds of people who apparently lined the route to welcome the reopening of the line not using the $6.2 million line that has just been reopened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202c2e2b45eee4966b48965adb8eb8d6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, when you have a circumstance where the prior Government let a railway line cease operations on the basis that they wouldn\u2019t spend one cent to fix it up, and when a Government comes along later with all that atrophied business and all that development commerce having been delayed, it takes a while to get things back going again. But he will not find one local body politician or mayor from Wairoa or Napier\u2014nor the whole Hawke\u2019s Bay, for that matter\u2014who is not on this Government\u2019s side in the case of that railway line. But if the National Party\u2019s view is that it should be closed, why don\u2019t they say so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcbb04f8e0ca427ebf68598a6d1828a2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think New Zealanders would find it galling that officials have spent $1 million on travel and expenses at a time of huge economic uncertainty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac61353e17d4efca11182c0a60d700b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, having proven that that was false in the first place, when he said the word \u201Cgalling\u201D I wasn\u2019t too certain whether he meant Gauloises, because that\u2019s a French cigarette, and he would have been selling that in his past life as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f05ec974428d457ca38534e3f1232a24\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he continue to insist that my figures are wrong, when questions for written answer Nos 1906 and 1900 clearly state that travel, meals, and incidentals add together to $1.03 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225116e31481254717b8155cf52879bdca\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The member just put his finger on the problem. He didn\u2019t say \u201Cmeals\u201D; he said \u201Ctravel\u201D. Now, come on. He said, countless times, \u201Ctravel\u201D, and now\u2014of course, he\u2019s not of a very athletic business mind\u2014he\u2019s got caught out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a68d3d61f25a4b44993cec0d893261a3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00221f9eab277a6c43a8b01f17f488ba995c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f9eab277a6c43a8b01f17f488ba995c\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How has close-contact tracing work progressed for the five confirmed cases of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae56e264204e47258a05bf91308804c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae56e264204e47258a05bf91308804c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised that all known close contacts of the five confirmed cases have now been contacted. Daily contact is being maintained by Auckland Regional Public Health Service. As of yesterday, 193 close contacts have been traced and contacted and given advice on self-isolation; 763 casual contacts have been contacted by Auckland Regional Public Health Service. This is what good public health practice looks like. I want to thank all those who are working on contact tracing to help protect the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022def98032213a42ce95dafa7c8ce19e42\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Are all close contacts now in self-isolation, and how are they being supported?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffa6796fedf14637a9f7380b4d2fae9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m advised that all close contacts have been told to go into self-isolation. They are checked in with daily. These phone calls are being done by Auckland Regional Public Health Service, and include symptom checks. In addition, close contacts are provided with Healthline contact details and links to the Ministry of Health and Auckland Regional Public Health websites for additional information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e6c34dd4eb4a4ba102b51e07f55aea\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What additional work has been done with people who may have come into casual contact with confirmed cases of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212074c12ac534fd59a1c3515a3ac0799\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As of yesterday afternoon, 763 casual contacts had been contacted. Expert advice is that these people don\u2019t need to be in self-isolation but do need to be alert to the symptoms of COVID-19 and get in touch with Healthline or phone their GP if they have any concerns. Auckland Regional Public Health Service have a team of people that support public and medical queries, and a case and contact team to respond to queries. In addition, Healthline contact details are available on the MOH\u2014Ministry of Health\u2014and Auckland Regional Public Health Service websites for people to access additional information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236f92e6ec7d14c57937fcb2aa726d368\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the close contacts that the Minister referenced were identified from the mosh pit at the Tool concert last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022578ca3aee27a4bc49ca2ee5d72017787\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, those people who were in that situation have been identified as casual contacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282988c7cb64c4fb2850f91a53a2fb1e6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c780c17d92b641d1851150e168dc4174\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c780c17d92b641d1851150e168dc4174\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: What, if anything, is she doing to prepare the welfare system for the impacts of the coronavirus outbreak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00227c9df6b1faef414ea918ee5df786a3c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c9df6b1faef414ea918ee5df786a3c6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has already taken strong action to support the economy in response to COVID-19 and is rolling out a comprehensive plan, including: working with industry to support affected businesses, including an $11 million tourism package; agreeing to a business continuity package; and directing work on an economic stimulus package building on the already announced $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme. As mentioned in my response to oral question No. 6, the additional measures announced to date that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is specifically leading or actively contributing to are: standing up rapid response teams in the most impacted regions; the temporary removal of stand-down periods from 23 March to ensure faster access to financial assistance; and working alongside the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to develop a wage subsidy option for employers and on redeployment options. We will continue to monitor the situation to ensure that MSD is poised and ready to support those who are able to stay in work, find alternative work, or enter into further upskilling and training if and when required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c660ee7c9b46718a0530d950840ae5\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she state in the House yesterday, and I quote, \u201CI haven\u2019t been alerted to the need for forecasts at this point.\u201D, and has someone now alerted her?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e129a3e9acb4849a789d430639e5b33\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I said in the House yesterday that I had not received any updated forecasts with respect to jobseeker benefit numbers. That was the question that was put to me. I also said that we are expecting the forecasts\u2014the benefit forecasts would next be completed as part of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, which is set to be published on 14 May 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229259c08a21ab444681ae083f6f12e47b\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she not consider it important to ask officials for the expected increase in the number on jobseeker benefit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228140b801201a48898c0ba0dfc12be17b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: That member will be aware of the fact that forecasts are done in line with Treasury at particular intervals, and at this point, I have not been alerted by Treasury\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c06266dc84e3429cb7e4c508ac957e03\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Do your job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e48ee718c8840ba953aa877d91a0d9c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for the need to update forecasts prematurely. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243cc129a8bba48688b8301279fefeba8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. Dr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ec4350282c4d0898ecf4e3c7f9a722\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What for? What have I done wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f0e2b340fe048608f1c29e1ab3fe737\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: For reflecting on me. The member knows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282407b1f96f4455480d90b67d3d3d831\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cadcc4a831db49a1a8c2dd4a6c3d056e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to both members for mixing them up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cbdbf0c3eaa4323a76bb26896ecc420\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3e214648be4cdab52593fc3e74807d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m getting a withdrawal and apology from this member first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290fd411d9dd449fab1712d6305e86308\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise. Well, I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd458d20cced44c8b8390dafcbbfe77a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Hon Nick Smith certainly made a comment during that question time, and he knows what it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022233d7fd114ad474a8fad50367929ca90\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t unparliamentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d891dde65243e59aed7424488a7a67\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, do you want to hear what he said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bfaaffbb6614aa7a8c3a5b74a28595b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t. If the member thinks it\u2019s unparliamentary, we\u2019re not having\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4cd8faff25e4d92a8a45b10e9bba221\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s against Standing Orders. That\u2019s why he should apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229391b6d341aa4ba4b63dbf1e00e95d5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m quite certain that I\u2019ll go back and listen to the tapes and look at the television on this, and if I need to take further action I will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a505b874df4944a8ff17a036de14ae\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If she has no advice on the impact of coronavirus on jobseeker support numbers, how can she be preparing her department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a91663dfc9e3438aaff1562f20099057\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: The question in the House and the one that the member is referring to was whether or not I had received forecast figures around jobseekers benefit, and I haven\u2019t. We are all, as a Government and Government agencies, making sure that we are prepared. It\u2019s important, as a Government, that we do not panic and we do not incite panic from New Zealanders but that we respond accordingly. So the additional measures I talked about are integral to making sure that we are prepared. But can I say also that they build on some of the investments we already made as a Government to invest and ensure that our welfare system is fit for purpose, including the investment in 263 more front-line case managers to make sure that we can have that work focus that we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13d94b6fbea456999ca3033c17de209\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Minister ask for an impact of coronavirus on the number of jobseeker benefits if she\u2019s serious about preparing her department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b4d0519a89c4acda7dd6adc0a898391\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: If I receive advice from Treasury that that is required, then I will welcome that information. For now, I\u2019m set on making sure that as a Government agency, we don\u2019t panic, but that we are out in the regions, are supporting employers, supporting business, and supporting our clients and New Zealanders that may be affected to ensure that they are taken care of, whether it be through financial assistance or whether it be with respect to support into employment, upskilling, and training during this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f7ae62357c4f65b42114e254906706\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is she not concerned about the significant impact that this coronavirus outbreak will have on the country and taxpayers, with an increase on those going on to the dole?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de546fc965f42c8b6065714b44ab472\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think, as a House, we are all concerned about the potential impacts of coronavirus, but what we\u2019re trying to do as a Government is ensure that we are poised to respond as the situation unfolds, that we are prepared, that we are proactive, and that we are putting appropriate measures in place. I believe that we are doing that. We want to make sure that we do not throw industry or New Zealanders who are in the workforce into panic. We just want to be there to support them and to ensure that we can get through this appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279e716851fed492bb3c95c1ed6a87aa7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022 data-id=\u0022274450416aa04d42b573d0cf662789c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274450416aa04d42b573d0cf662789c2\u0022\u003EHon NIKKI KAYE (National\u2014Auckland Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00229a0711b020c246139976efcc95fe0a83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a0711b020c246139976efcc95fe0a83\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022205f7a96d54840d6ac54189e3d4a236b\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement, in response to fears regarding coronavirus that lost fees could wipe out the surplus of the entire university sector, that comments were alarmist given the sector is projecting up to $300 million a year in losses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5cb6b1813bc4f52b0a52ec7edf1962c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Those comments are very premature. The overall impact on the university sector will largely depend on when the travel restrictions are removed and the proportion of students who had intended coming to New Zealand\u2014the proportion of those who continue to come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f86d5b0aba824c7aabc291d729179e92\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that comments were alarmist and that those comments were premature given that the universities of New Zealand have written to the Tertiary Education Committee projecting that scenario of $300 million of losses within the next seven or eight weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9dc3a2700b94859a3749a51e2a5e5df\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do believe they are alarmist. I also believe they were premature. Of course, the position of the universities is that there should be no travel restrictions at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230c948502ea445ec9ade6dfd2aa7ef34\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Is he ruling out a financial support package for education providers to deal with the impact of coronavirus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e65c80731384696a1be04a1adaab2a6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: No, but at this point I believe that is premature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317fc324a40f4bfb81915ab4ef2e9ec0\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his decisions around education providers and coronavirus given the real issues of delays around visas and returning students, and will he do anything to prevent that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a7d5543d2c545c4a990e84e89b043f9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is arguing that we should remove the travel restriction, I think the majority of the country would disagree with her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2d10c1-43b7-41d9-9f5c-0c313f70e625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f416cd87305d47e2bdfd9d47ca559486\u0022\u003EHon Nikki Kaye\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement regarding adequate support for education providers impacted by coronavirus, given the real communications by agencies and schools and the issues raised with that and the real need for greater financial support for tertiary institutions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a711264037f4f039b7e5ccc575c0695\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure which one of those questions the member wants me to answer. I am confident that the schools, early childhood centres, and tertiary institutions are being given very good, sound advice by public health officials about how to deal with any consequences of the coronavirus. I am also confident that there is existing financial means for the providers to cope with this situation in the short term. Of course, the overall financial impact is going to depend on how long it goes on for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221108818ad82d4c01b516adff130a4b82\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 13\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00226458f4c593c041fc8156c31f1dc8a3b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E13. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226458f4c593c041fc8156c31f1dc8a3b0\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: How many subsidies did Work and Income pay under the childcare assistance programme in the year ended June 2019, and how does this compare with the number of subsidies paid under a National-led Government in the year ended June 2017?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4a3a250500b4afa80b15a4e36a671db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4a3a250500b4afa80b15a4e36a671db\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E As at June 2019, there were 33,072 childcare and Out of School Care and Recreation (OSCAR) subsidies, including the guaranteed childcare assistance. As at June 2017, there were 42,989 subsidies. A key reason that the number of childcare and OSCAR subsidies has decreased is that many families\u2019 incomes have increased under this Government. We are providing more support to families through our Families Package, which is the biggest boost in household income in a decade for thousands of families. We\u2019ve also increased the minimum wage, rising to $18.90 as of 1 April, have increased the amount people can earn before their benefit is reduced, and have indexed main benefits to wage growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221737ac42e9fe46f38d0a4e09267d499c\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister really mean to tell struggling Kiwi families that it is a good thing that fewer of them are receiving help with childcare costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282762c30dc3643a78dd7d7e7d5755ffc\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I do need to point out that since 2011, there has been a steady decline in those accessing childcare assistance subsidies. So it is not a new phenomenon. However, I will say that childcare assistance is one of the areas that we cited in our Cabinet paper on our response to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group as one of the areas that we should be reviewing, and we have highlighted it as an area that we want to investigate, explore, and review in our longer-term plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0d9aa052d946438114ff3657f04433\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can she confirm that while the number of Kiwis on the dole is increasing, her Government is overseeing a reduction in the number of families getting the childcare support that could help them stay off welfare and stay in work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294b9bff609f3441a805047e4980b230b\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t confirm the numbers around that thing called \u201Cthe dole\u201D, because there is no such thing, but what I can confirm is that, actually, we\u2019ve got an unemployment rate of 4 percent, which is the lowest that it\u2019s been in a decade. We\u2019ve got a working-age population on benefit, which is about 10.5 percent, which is relative to every year that the previous Government were in place, or better. And, as I said, we continue to monitor the situation, and we will be reviewing childcare assistance because we recognise the importance of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250fc84277ae7497691e31e75fa88ec18\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that childcare costs can be a barrier for parents moving off the dole and into work, and is she concerned that, under Labour, around 10,000 fewer childcare subsidies are being paid to low-income families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283f613854c8e4bd08aec70253d019a60\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is that there were actually 10,000 fewer childcare subsidies being paid out under the previous Government between 2011 and 2017. We recognise that there does need to be a review of childcare assistance and have outlined it really clearly in our Cabinet paper. We recognise the importance of childcare assistance with respect to supporting people into employment. I will say that we\u2019re really proud of the fact that we\u2019ve put additional money into the pockets of low- and middle-income New Zealanders through our Families Package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7504fa1e75446b39134f942794ee4c6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP, who said in 2015 that \u201CWe know that, at an operational level, Work and Income are making it as hard as possible for parents to access their childcare subsidy entitlement.\u201D, and if so, is she proud of the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c42ef282c3f4e3a9d527bf0994b2e06\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019m really proud of is that from April last year, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) engaged in a proactive programme of phoning primarily sole parent beneficiary recipients to make sure that they were getting access to their full and correct entitlement\u2014and this is above and beyond their business as usual\u2014and making sure that they were getting access to things like childcare assistance subsidies. The fact that it has reduced because incomes have gone up is something we do need to keep a close eye on. We do need to review childcare assistance subsidies, but I\u2019m proud of the fact that incomes have gone up under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201aeb1fd540346959be3082f258dbb74\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP, who said, \u201CIf more people are going to work, we should see some kind of increase in the number of people not on benefits receiving childcare subsidies\u201D, and if so, what has she done about the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351d3d85a92045da8d54078e39303db1\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: That member that she refers to was a good Opposition member, and she highlighted very important issues. Can I say, as I mentioned earlier, that there had already been a steady decline in the take up of childcare assistance subsidies under the previous Government. We haven\u2019t been able to get on to everything that we would have liked to in the first two years, but I have already indicated in the Cabinet paper that responds to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group\u2019s recommendation that it is part of our work programme\u2014it is a commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f77ad17b64345219a6cbcdaed86e3a6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister make such a big deal about correcting her written answer yesterday when all she did was swap the word \u201Cclient\u201D for the word \u201Csubsidies\u201D, and can she actually tell this House clearly whether more or fewer families are getting childcare support under Labour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba35d3d4c5a4f36bd95a89b00c947c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know it\u2019s getting late and we want to see the end of this question time, but that member has constantly got up and asked two separate questions, and we don\u2019t feel like indulging her any longer. Either get a finger on the Standing Orders or don\u2019t ask the question in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef01d866ed6a47e58820afc0e6deb595\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. I have had requests from both sides of the House to be a little bit more flexible in my interpretation of the rules. I think it\u2019s fair to say that it\u2019s mainly been in respect of one member, but has also involved members not very far away from the member who took that point of order. It is a relatively rare occurrence for the newer members of the backbench to have supplementary questions, and I\u2019m deliberately being kind to them\u2014and a little bit loose\u2014and I\u2019m sure that over time they will get it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224363860aac71428489b4e2b06cc9d0a5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was important because I think it\u2019s important that we are accurate in this House, and there is a difference between the number of subsidies versus the number of clients, so I needed the accurate information. Can I say that I did receive 4,300 written questions over the last calendar year, and so I think the fact that we only had to correct one question in the House is actually something MSD and my officials can be very proud of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e79ca57c5a4b4f3fbbbc7bbd6b3f3a5a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00227c0aad1bcde2460ca050d7fd41411f5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c0aad1bcde2460ca050d7fd41411f5f\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just seek your guidance in relation to question No. 9 and the written questions that form the basis of the question. My office has just received an email from the Minister\u2019s office\u2014after the question was asked and answered by the Deputy Prime Minister on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development\u2014taking issue with the numbers used in the question. I won\u2019t get into the details of it, but it goes into whether or not the overall number is inclusive or if you can add the two numbers together. I\u2019m just seeking your guidance as to how that plays out in relation to the correction of answers or the correction of the primary question in the first place, because it was never challenged by the Minister\u2019s office when it was put down on notice; in fact, it wasn\u2019t even challenged last night or later on this morning. So I just seek your guidance on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00226d087158ef824a3897ba92dfc456a86c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d087158ef824a3897ba92dfc456a86c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure of the advice the member\u2019s seeking. The member\u2019s received an email after a question has been asked from a Minister\u2019s office about the general subject area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220867939e961f46f5b58f18caf06b2acc\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Can I speak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca5cf76ed12d42aaa44278a712dd8141\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019ll stand up, because that\u2019ll mean that Nick Smith might stop interjecting while I\u2019m attempting to rule. What I don\u2019t understand is the matter that I\u2019m being asked to rule on. I ask Mr Bishop to be more specific about the Standing Orders or Speakers\u2019 rulings that I\u2019m being asked to address. I will remind him, and I think it\u2019s somewhere around Speakers\u2019 Rulings 20/2 or 20/3, that the House doesn\u2019t go back, and so I\u2019m after what the Standing Orders issue is and the remedy that the member\u2019s seeking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b62ca938060d4ad7b15c6cecc1e2cd95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b62ca938060d4ad7b15c6cecc1e2cd95\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I suppose what I\u2019m saying is I\u2019m uncertain as to whether or not the Deputy Prime Minister or myself have misled the House, and if you require from us any effective, you know, way of making that right so that we don\u2019t fall foul of the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002234858c135a91474085d6a45dd9264387\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234858c135a91474085d6a45dd9264387\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. Well, I think it\u2019s fair to say that, on the first matter, I have accepted a question with the authentication which I considered appropriate, and, if I\u2019ve made a mistake, well, I do apologise to the House. Therefore, I think it\u2019s fair to say that unless there is a further misleading by way of supplementary questions, that member\u2019s off the hook. If the member answering the question has made an error, he knows well how to sort it out, and there\u2019s no matter for me to currently rule on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022368f7379ce264290aa21da2093f7205b\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a65d9c614ef403c9d9d6dcdf6291d34\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00227e1bba2f807a41099d57b987a52034f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e1bba2f807a41099d57b987a52034f8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): \u003C/span\u003EI move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for the committee stages of the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill and the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill, the continued first reading of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill, the first reading of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, the first reading of the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill, and the first reading of the Organic Products Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223c5f123aeb014036b398789f0831ed82\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7d2b35d4c7742988e0bdb7958445760\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022447e1925f69e48b8a4e35f4c2f7d0589\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3154491fb044800a3af6bb71e6b4e95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3154491fb044800a3af6bb71e6b4e95\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2020. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to present the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, both of which were presented by the relevant Minister and ministries in December 2019. I\u2019d like to thank the committee for the work they did reviewing these important documents, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister of Finance, the Hon Grant Robertson, and the Secretary to the Treasury, Dr Caralee McLiesh, for appearing in front of our committee to answer our questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI would especially like to thank the submitters who put in submissions on the documents. Forty-two individuals or groups took the time to present their views to us on the Budget Policy Statement and on what they thought we should be doing. Many of those were from representative bodies, so it represents a large number of New Zealanders who took an interest in what is happening in Budget 2020. I especially, though, thank those who came and spoke to us in person. It\u2019s an important part of the Budget process and an important part of the functioning of our democratic system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis Budget Policy Statement and, of course, the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update were prepared last year. We reviewed them in February this year, just a month or so ago, and since then much has changed. In December 2019, I don\u2019t think we\u2019d even heard the term coronavirus in respect of the illness that broke out in China. By February 2020, when we were starting to review the Budget Policy Statement, we had just started to use the word COVID-19, and now, coming up for nearly a month later, of course, COVID-19 and its impact on New Zealand and on the world is being regarded as a very serious matter indeed. But what this report shows is just how very well we are placed to meet the challenge posed to us by COVID-19. Let me turn to the Budget Policy Statement to show why this is so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I want to talk about how the Budget Policy Statement builds on the work that we did in 2019. It focuses on wellbeing, and that\u2019s important because it means we are moving beyond measuring just the economy and focusing on what really matters to New Zealanders, the traditional things: housing, jobs, families, and so on\u2014all those sorts of things that ensure that people have the capabilities to live lives of purpose, of balance, and of meaning to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis Budget in 2020 draws on the work that we did in the Wellbeing Budget of 2019, and it draws on a long tradition of considering what makes a life worth living. What we know when we talk to people\u2014this is well-established in the literature\u2014is it\u2019s not money, though money does help. It\u2019s family, it\u2019s friends, it\u2019s satisfying work, it\u2019s security, and it\u2019s health. Understanding that gives us our focus on wellbeing and it has enabled us to identify priorities for Budget 2020. So the Minister of Finance has identified those in the Budget Policy Statement and they are reflected in our report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo what are the priorities for Budget 2020? They are a just transition, supporting New Zealanders into a climate-resilient future, the future of work, enabling all New Zealanders to benefit from new technologies, and to lift productivity. It\u2019s the focus on M\u0101ori and Pasifika, lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities; a focus on child wellbeing; reducing child poverty and improving child wellbeing; a focus on mental and physical wellbeing; and improved health outcomes for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the focus that is talked about in the Budget Policy Statement and it builds on the strong economy\u2014a strong economy in which wages are up 4.9 percent, a strong economy in which the minimum wage will be going up to $18.90 an hour, a strong economy in which household incomes are up, a strong economy in which debt is low at 19.5 percent of GDP, a strong economy in which unemployment is at 4 percent, and a strong economy in which growth is ahead of our OECD partners. It was raised at 2.2 percent growth in December, and just today we\u2019ve heard that it is still being raised, at 2 percent growth. At the time of our HYEFU, the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, it was predicted there would be a small deficit for the year ended December. In the event, the actual financials have shown a small surplus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is the fundamentally sound and strong economy, which means that we are very well placed to meet the threat of COVID-19. We are facing an international storm, but we can meet it. And why can we meet it? It will have a profound effect on us and we are responding. It is a health issue primarily, but it also is an economic issue, and we can meet it. Why can we make it? Because of the programme that is laid out in the Budget Policy Statement in 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s the best thing to do when facing that kind of economic storm? The Budget Policy Statement 2019 tells us what we are doing. We have the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, a Keynesian measure that will support our economy\u2014$12 billion of infrastructure. So after the nine years of neglect, we are doing the work that sorely needs to be done in New Zealand. So there are upgrades for transport, for education, for health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement tells us that there will be $6.8 billion going into rail and roads, but not just roads for cars, but roads which have dedicated lanes for freight, roads which have cycleways and pedestrian walkways incorporated into them so that different modes of transport can be used to get us about from place to place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn the Budget Policy Statement, we are told that there will be $300 million going into investment into our district health boards, that sorely needs investment to replace the rundown infrastructure that was left to us. There is $200 million going into reducing carbon emissions in the public estate, making sure that in the Government\u2014in the Government\u2014estate, in the public estate, we are moving towards a low-carbon economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFour billion dollars is going to the multi-year capital allowance to look at future spending and support future spending on infrastructure, and all of this will add 1.4 percent to GDP, a 1.4 percent that will be so needed in the face of COVID-19. So what we have here is fiscal policy that is supporting our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ELet me tell you how this works on the small scale, and it\u2019s most easily seen in our schools package, the package where we have fired $400 million into repairs and maintenance and upgrading school property. That is affecting virtually every State school in the country. In my electorate, and in the electorate of every single constituency MP in this House and in the electorates where list MPs work, there are schools who are benefiting from this, schools who can at last replace the school pool, can get some painting work done, can get the roof replaced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut it is not just the schools who benefit from that; it is the local tradies\u2014the plumbers, the roofers, the builders\u2014who will get work, the kind of work that enables them to employ people, and that will sustain us through this COVID-19 outbreak. It is a classic measure to support the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement has a whole series of other measures that we are building on. I just want to talk about that minimum wage increase. We all know that when it comes to low-income people, that extra money gets cycled straight back into the economy. If there is a simple way to support the economy, it is by lifting the incomes of the lowest paid. Why? Because they spend it to support a better life for themselves, and that spending cycles straight back around the economy. It is an excellent measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat this Budget Policy Statement shows is that we are supporting our communities, we are supporting our families, and we are working to support the economy that in turn supports all of us, and we are governing for all New Zealand. We are challenged by COVID-19, but this Budget Policy Statement and this coming Budget show that we are doing what matters\u2014leading with a public health response and then leading with an economic response, an economic response that we are prepared for, thanks to our Prime Minister, with her concern for all New Zealanders, and thanks to the excellent work done by our Minister of Finance. He is insightful, courageous, and visionary\u2014a worthy successor to Sir Michael Cullen. I commend this report to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022337d38b8ed954da186131b125e9bbcee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022337d38b8ed954da186131b125e9bbcee\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Speaking on this Budget Policy Statement and the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, of course, which includes projections of future growth, and, of course, all those projections are now cast into the air by the impact of coronavirus, I just want to mention one or two issues there. Certainly, it is having a big impact and will have a big impact on the projections in this update. We\u2019re seeing a lot of businesses around this country really finding it tough right now\u2014tourism particularly, the hospitality sectors, forestry, international education, a lot of pressure on universities and that export education sector, which is an important part of the economy. We worry about potential job losses but also people losing hours and losing their income and their smaller businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we support the Government\u2019s initiatives so far, in terms of the message they sent through IRD and the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) to help in the short term around payments, around provisional tax, and so forth. There\u2019s been some particular work going on in the East Coast. We do note that the Minister of Finance, who will no doubt repeat it soon, is right in the sense that the first conversation that these businesses that are struggling should be having is with the banks, their own banks, in order to make sure that they\u2019ve got the money to get through. However, not everybody will. So we do acknowledge that the Government\u2019s announced that it will be coming up with a business continuity package that will include\u2014they\u2019ve indicated some form of wage subsidy to businesses directly affected, and it absolutely should be targeted to those businesses. Our point on that is that we think the Government should move with more urgency because those businesses have been under pressure now for a number of weeks. We know that it\u2019s complicated, but we just encourage the Government to move swiftly in this area because we worry that the window of opportunity to save jobs is closing and we need to move fast. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also particularly worried about the logic of helping those businesses, but, at the same time, making their job significantly harder by pressing on ahead with the 1 April minimum wage increase, which does make it harder for many businesses to survive in challenging times. Our proposal is that it be postponed\u2014not cancelled, not unwound, not sent off to never-never land, but postponed for six months so that businesses have less headwinds to struggle against at a very difficult time. We don\u2019t want to be making it more difficult for businesses right now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAs well as that short-term work to help businesses most directly affected by the outbreak that we\u2019re dealing with, there is the wider question of whether some broader stimulus is needed across the economy if indeed the impact of coronavirus extends beyond what is short and sharp\u2014which it already has\u2014into a longer, more deeper impact on the New Zealand economy, whether it is indeed leading to a recession, whether it is a trigger to a much wider global slow-down. These things we don\u2019t know yet, but the initial indications now are increasingly disturbing. So there may well come a time soon when wider stimulus is required. We\u2019ll be interested to see what the Government has to say about that and when they will make those decisions, and we think some sort of direct tax relief will be part of that story. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, we shouldn\u2019t be losing sight of the more basic issues facing New Zealand. The Minister of Finance will no doubt stand up, like he has many, many times, and say that the New Zealand economy is great and we had strong momentum coming into this crisis\u2014and that is wrong. It is completely wrong. We did not have strong momentum at the end of last year. This economy was growing at a rate of 1.6 percent, according to the Reserve Bank in 2019. Now, those figures may be up slightly or down slightly, but that is not strong momentum. In fact, the strong momentum that we did have as an economy, back in 2017, after nine years of good government by the National Government led by John Key and Bill English over an extended period time\u2014that was strong momentum: over 3 percent growth, huge surpluses being generated, about 10,000 new jobs a month being created for the last two years. That was strong momentum. What we\u2019ve seen in the first two years of this Government is the attenuation of that momentum, the slowing down of that momentum, the slowing down of the economy, the slowing down of job creation, and the disappearance of the Budget surpluses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement projected, prior to any coronavirus, prior to any droughts, a deficit for this year, and it projected no surplus for the year after that. Again, we hear the Minister of Finance talking about projected surpluses. Yeah, they\u2019re two or three years out, and nobody believes that they would actually occur on the path that the Government was already heading. So that is what it is, and it\u2019s just made it slightly more difficult for New Zealand to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo as well as responding directly to the impact of the virus, we do need to have a clear growth plan and a focus on growth, and that\u2019s what the National Party has delivered and continues to deliver. We\u2019ve talked about the need in five areas: firstly, to reduce regulation, and we talked about that earlier this week\u2014the need to take pressure off businesses so that they have more money to invest and grow and provide jobs for people, provide opportunities for New Zealanders to have good work, good opportunities, to look after themselves and their families and to do the things that they want to do. So we need regulatory reduction. We also need to have help for small businesses, and we\u2019ll be talking about that more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe often hear about the Prime Minister\u2019s empathy. Well, I don\u2019t feel like the Prime Minister has any empathy for the realities of the 500,000 small-business owners in this country who struggle, who get up early in the morning, work hard, try to employ people, and are confronted with never-ending costs and further regulations and further difficulties imposed upon them, while they\u2019re also just trying to survive in business, which is hard, relentless, and requires great effort every day. Those people are the backbone of the New Zealand economy. We should be supporting them. We should be standing up for them and saying, \u201CThey are performing the public service that New Zealand needs.\u201D They are the people that only survive in business if every day they give people what they want, at the right price. It\u2019s a beautiful thing that they\u2019re doing, and they should be supported by this Government, and we should be making their life easier, not harder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s regulatory relief, there\u2019s a focus on small business, there\u2019s the need to provide tax relief for hard-working New Zealanders when appropriate, and, fourthly, there\u2019s the need for infrastructure and investment. This Government will no doubt, again\u2014we\u2019ll hear the Minister of Finance standing up on his hind legs in the next few minutes; he\u2019ll be saying we will be spending $12 billion on infrastructure. But announcing is not the same as delivering, and that\u2019s the basic lesson that they don\u2019t seem to have learnt yet. When they arrived in Parliament, the first thing they did was they came in and said, \u201CWe don\u2019t like National\u2019s infrastructure. We\u2019re going to stop it.\u201D So they turned off all the roads, because they were going to build the light rail down Dominion Road. Two years later, they realised that they hadn\u2019t even figured out what the purpose of the light rail down Dominion Road was, whether it was a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c71eefed1b44d589969773f8182212f\u0022\u003EFletcher Tabuteau\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Sorry, I was restraining myself, but under the standing rules of this debate, the member must confine himself to the content of the Budget Policy Statement itself\u2014this is not a Budget debate\u2014and not waffle on about unrelated matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8bf8ba9d0e44e9a54f0ade0957f8c0\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY SPEAKER (Hon Tim Macindoe)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his intervention, but this is a wide-ranging debate related to Budget policy matters, and I don\u2019t believe that the member has strayed from that overarching framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5fdb0e619847018350b0947e9068ea\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: A typical load of nonsense from New Zealand First. They are only sore because they don\u2019t like the light rail project down Dominion Road. They don\u2019t support the light rail project down Dominion Road, which is why it\u2019s not happening. So two years later, they still haven\u2019t got the support of New Zealand First for the slow tram down Dominion Road. We don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s about urban regeneration or a fast track to the airport\u2014nobody believes it will be a fast track to the airport\u2014and so they haven\u2019t done anything. So two years later, having done nothing on infrastructure, they decided to turn the key on and start up National\u2019s roading projects and the fourth railway line and all the things that we were going to do two years ago. So they\u2019ve wasted 2\u00BD years on infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe final point is we need to help families. What New Zealanders will be deciding as the election comes up, in six months\u2019 time, is: is there a difference between a party that thinks that announcing things is all you have to do and to have good intentions is all you need, versus a party that understands that it\u2019s delivery that counts? And that\u2019s where we stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, when we get to the Budget policies outlined in this Budget Policy Statement, what we see is a list of five goals: the just transition, the future of work, M\u0101ori and Pacific, child wellbeing, and physical and mental wellbeing\u2014and they\u2019re all very worthy. I\u2019ve got no problem; they\u2019re very worthy things to do. But my suggestion to the Minister of Finance is that they\u2019re out of keeping with the time. The priority right now for New Zealanders is restoring growth and saving jobs, and that should be the overwhelming priority for this Budget: saving jobs and restoring growth in this economy. I don\u2019t see too much about that in the Budget priorities as outlined. It might be somewhere in the future of work, but I\u2019m not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be very interested to see that, and I\u2019d be very interested to see, after all the talk and all the announcements, when they\u2019re going to deliver 100,000 houses, for example. I\u2019d be very interested to know that, because it is quite true that the Prime Minister, with her intervention at Ihum\u0101tao, has stopped more houses being built there than the entire $2 billion KiwiBuild programme has delivered so far. I would love to hear how the Minister of Finance explains that. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022452bb320892e41b6951694b7c675b75b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022452bb320892e41b6951694b7c675b75b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I firstly just want to acknowledge the Hon Tim Macindoe for an excellent little spell in the Speaker\u2019s Chair that he\u2019s just had. He was, unfortunately, melding into the sheepskin behind you in a way that made him look a little unusual, but he did a very good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221929f824967c44ea8eb1389e5b8578b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows that he doesn\u2019t bring the Speaker into the debate, although I might say he merges less than he would\u2019ve a few weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022045665258b9e4b98ad78c67db160d642\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: All right, Mr Speaker. The member opposite, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, started out pretty well in that contribution. He started out by endorsing a number of actions that the Government is taking in response to COVID-19. In particular, I think it\u2019s very important at the outset to note that the first response to COVID-19 has to be a public health response. That is what New Zealanders expect of us. That is what we have prioritised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHe made a comment at the end about not being sure that the priorities in the Budget Policy Statement fitted with where we were at in terms of COVID-19. Well, I would say we\u2019re very proud on this side of the House of the additional investments we have made into our health system. It is our health system, our health workers, who are at the front line of ensuring the wellbeing of New Zealanders during the COVID-19 outbreak, and that is one of the priorities in this Budget Policy Statement. So I think, on behalf of certainly the Government, I want to be able to take an opportunity to thank our front-line health workers, who are currently under quite a high degree of pressure, doing a great job in making sure that not only is New Zealanders\u2019 health and wellbeing being protected but also that information is flowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs I say, the member, while he started out well, then ended up in a typical \u201CNegative National\u201D rant\u2014not about the positive things that are happening in our economy, not about the things in the Budget Policy Statement that actually are about lifting productivity, are about making our economy more sustainable, are about making sure that more New Zealanders are included in our economy and benefit from the prosperity in our country, and that is at the core of the Budget Policy Statement. But, obviously, it is clear that we have this debate today in different times than when the Budget Policy Statement was written, in December 2019, and those times mean that we do, at all points, need to assure ourselves that what we\u2019re doing in the Budget is in the best interests of New Zealand at this time. Over the coming weeks, we will be refining the Budget, which is delivered on the basis of this Budget Policy Statement, in line with what has occurred with COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the good news for New Zealanders is that we entered into this period in good shape. Our economic plan was showing benefits right across the economy, and in the face of the global headwinds we\u2019d seen in the last couple of years with the US-China trade war and Brexit, we were coming through particularly well. We have been growing at a faster rate than many of the countries that we typically compare ourselves to, including Australia, Canada, the UK, the eurozone, and Japan. Looking across fiscal and monetary policy across our labour market, across consumer confidence, and even, in the last months of 2019, business confidence, we saw that the economy was on the improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s accounts, for the six months that ended December 2019, were strong. We had a surplus over the first six months of the fiscal year, and we were sitting $500 million higher than we expected. That\u2019s due to a strong economy. That\u2019s due to more revenue coming in as a result of more businesses doing well, making profits, and paying corporate tax, of more people being in work, of more people earning more, and paying their taxes in that regard, and of more people spending because they have confidence to spend in the economy. All of those things were ahead of forecasts at the end of December 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also had labour market statistics highlighted in the Budget Policy Statement where we now have 4 percent unemployment\u2014historically low levels of unemployment. All of these things are signs that we enter into the face of COVID-19 doing well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe often compare ourselves to Australia in this regard. Australia\u2019s unemployment rate is actually back up to 5.3 percent. In New Zealand, and the Budget Policy Statement outlines this, we saw record wage growth in terms of the last 10 years in the period covered by year, with around 3.6 percent. We also saw Statistics New Zealand data in the last few days showing us that the total volume of manufacturing sales had its strongest quarterly rise in six years in the final quarter of 2019. We also saw trade data that showed that terms of trade hit a record high in the December quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo all of those things are the reason why we say we are in good shape going into this challenging situation. We particularly say that because we have kept levels of net debt low. We have net core Crown debt now at 19.5 percent\u201419.5 percent of GDP. That is less than the 22 percent of GDP that we were left with when we came into office. That is what gives us the fiscal space to be able to respond, to be able to make sure that we protect the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders and plan for what may come in terms of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut the significant announcement made at the time of the Budget Policy Statement was the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. This is the $12 billion boost to New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure. We\u2019re able to do that because debt is low, because the cost of borrowing is low, and because the projects are there to do. This is a fully funded programme. This is not a wish list. It\u2019s not a series of promises. It\u2019s not a media statement put out just before the election. It is a fully funded programme, and it\u2019s a programme that does get the balance right in our transport system. Yes, it supports major roading projects, but it also supports significant investment in our rail sector, in walking and cycling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt also supports core investment in our education and our health systems. It is those hospitals right now that know that they\u2019ve got a Government that\u2019s got their back and has invested in them as they lead New Zealand\u2019s public health response. That\u2019s what a responsible Government does. It ensures that we invest in our health system. After nine years of neglect of that health system, we have come through with significant boosts, both in terms of what we\u2019re building in hospitals and the support we\u2019re giving, be it through the wages for nurses or be it through the increased investment in our DHBs. So that New Zealand Upgrade Programme, that infrastructure boost, puts us on the right footing as we move forward into this challenging period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve covered several times in the House in the last couple of days what we\u2019re doing directly in response to COVID-19 of supporting our business community, of getting alongside workers through the Ministry of Social Development, through Inland Revenue, through making sure that the Government departments pay their bills on time. That issue of cash flow was raised directly with us by Kirk Hope of Business New Zealand. He said, \u201CWhat\u2019s one thing we can do? It\u2019s make sure those bills are paid on time by the Government.\u201D We signed that off within three days to respond to exactly that. We continue to develop the business continuity package alongside the business community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMost businesses understand that right now we\u2019re in the phase where it\u2019s targeted responses that are needed, tailor-made responses that deal with the industries, the sectors, and the regions who are facing the brunt of this. At the same time, we plan. We plan for the possibility that this may go on longer, that the impacts may cut deeper. We are ready for that and we have the fiscal space to deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut all of the things that we\u2019re doing for COVID-19, which we must prioritise and we are prioritising, stand alongside a Budget Policy Statement that fundamentally delivers on what the Government came here to do. Yes, we need a strong economy, and we\u2019ve got it. Yes, we need to manage the books carefully, and we are, but we must deliver to our people and to our environment. That is why the Budget priorities that are in here are the ones that we must stick through, no matter what is happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EYes, we have to grow jobs. Yes, we have to make sure that we\u2019re investing in our small businesses. All of that\u2019s being done, but we must continue to deliver and prepare, make sure that the economy is able to get ahead in terms of climate change, make the most of the opportunities that exist there, address the future of work, support M\u0101ori and Pasifika aspiration, make sure we lift children out of poverty. We\u2019ve seen the statistics that are proving that we\u2019re doing that, and investing in our physical and our mental wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am extremely proud that we are now getting the focus right. Yesterday in the House, James Shaw, in his tribute to Jeanette Fitzsimons, raised the question of her views around how we needed to move beyond GDP. We are doing that. Yes, it\u2019s important to grow our economy, but it is also important that we care about who shares in the success of that economy, that we measure our success in the wellbeing of our children, the health of our environment, our mental health, and our success in terms of work. All of those indicators are now clearly laid out in a Budget Policy Statement that gives a feeling of confidence to New Zealanders that we are on the right track, that we have the plans in place to make sure that they and their families feel safe and secure. We are in challenging times, but we are in very good shape to handle them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022358fac785fb4459c984db2f237334969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022358fac785fb4459c984db2f237334969\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I start by thanking all those people who have sent nice, kind words of support for Holly Collins, my dog, who is almost 17. Obviously, you know, dogs can get coronavirus, so I tell you, if I get a sniff, I\u2019m not coming to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s really important, though, that we look at this Budget Policy Statement and say, \u201CIs this a Budget Policy Statement fit for present times and into the immediate future?\u201D I\u2019m sorry to say it: no, it\u2019s not. So we have a Government that has talked about\u2014and the Minister who has just resumed his seat just talked about\u2014the Wellbeing Budget, and the business as usual, basically everything continuing the same, and looking to the future and climate change, everything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe can put our heads in the sand over this COVID-19 or we could understand that it is coming our way. When we see the panic that has occurred in supermarkets where people are buying toilet paper in New Zealand in great trolley loads\u2014which is totally insane behaviour, frankly, given that we export toilet paper. I\u2019ve just checked on the internet, and apparently in 2018 we, as a country, exported $54 million worth of toilet paper. So I\u2019m pretty certain we\u2019re covered no matter what, when it comes to the toilet paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s not joke too much about it. That is a sign of people panicking. The reason they\u2019re panicking is they\u2019re not certain what to do, and so they race round and they think, \u201CWhat might I need if everything\u2019s shut and I can\u2019t go out, or I\u2019m stuck in isolation or something?\u201D That\u2019s what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ELast night, or yesterday, rather, I should say, 168 people died in Italy of COVID-19. Now, the wave of death seems to have occurred in China over the last month, and now seems to be trailing off. That is a good thing that it is trailing off, but the wave now seems to be in Italy. Italy has 60 million people; we have 5 million people. That would be like us standing up in this House and saying that yesterday we lost 34 people to COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI understand why people feel a bit panicked. If it was us with those numbers, we probably would, too. We don\u2019t need to panic buy food. We export 95 percent of the food produced in New Zealand. We produce enough for 40 million people. My message to people is we don\u2019t need to panic. But the big thing that we do need to have from the Government response is that we need to know that the Government knows what it\u2019s doing and it is properly prepared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe were not overly, as people, convinced that the Government knew how to deal with a pandemic when it couldn\u2019t cope very well with the measles epidemic. We didn\u2019t believe that that was something that should be happening in today\u2019s world when we have immunisations available. There is no immunisation yet available for COVID-19, and I think that is one of the things that is causing businesses and staff to be very concerned about this and how this could impact on them, their jobs, and therefore on the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIn the National Party, we believe that the Government needs to reassess the Budget based on the fact that COVID-19 is impacting on New Zealand, not so much in numbers at the moment\u2014and it most likely it will\u2014but in the way that it\u2019s affecting our exports. If we consider that tourism is a major export to New Zealand\u2014such as people come to New Zealand for tourism\u2014that is clearly having a serious impact right now on our tourism industry, which is one of our biggest industries. It has made a huge negative impact on our tertiary education providers, and, particularly, not only on our universities and the polytechnics but also on the private tertiary education providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe should not underestimate the impact of this terrible, terrible infection on not only people\u2019s health, but, actually, on their mind-set. I\u2019ve been looking for some words of inspiration, and I didn\u2019t get them from Mr Robertson, but I did get some from Franklin Delano Roosevelt who, in 1932, during the Great Depression, when he took over as the President of the United States, said the \u201Conly thing we have to fear is fear itself.\u201D It\u2019s a bit trite, I guess, to say that, but I think part of what\u2019s driving this panic is people are fearful, and they\u2019re fearful if they see their Government not looking like they\u2019re in charge and doing the best they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt is important that if people believe that they have some of the symptoms of COVID-19\u2014which I have to say, look to me, when I\u2019ve heard about them, remarkably similar to most other winter viruses that we often get\u2014they should be able to get tested. We have people now self-isolating in what we\u2019d consider a responsible way. The problem is they\u2019re not at work either. And so workplaces and businesses are having to think of ways of dealing with it. People are putting in place, very responsibly, plans\u2014and I understand that Vodafone were doing this today, or very soon\u2014where people can work from home, so that they are not putting both the work and themselves at risk and their workmates. So these are good, responsible responses from people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think it\u2019s responsible, though, for the Minister of Finance to stand up and say, \u201CWe\u2019re just going to continue on with everything that we were doing in exactly the same way.\u201D I don\u2019t think anyone needs to be a rocket scientist to work out that the world is in a situation of quite a lot of flux. People are very worried and certain countries are taking drastic measures, primarily because they have to. We now have countries like Samoa\u2014one of our neighbours and very good friends\u2014saying, \u201CIf anyone wants to come to Samoa, they need to have a doctor\u2019s certificate to say that they\u2019re not sick.\u201D I mean, this is going to have a huge impact on Samoa\u2019s tourism, which is one of its biggest earners. But then again, they need to do something because they don\u2019t have a lot of confidence that other countries are doing what they should do to keep this virus at bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe also need to bear in mind that not everyone who gets this virus is going to die, but many are going to be very sick and some may not be very sick at all. But when we look at those mortality rates, they\u2019re not enormous: about 3.4 percent of confirmed cases so far. But if you\u2019re one of those 3.4 percent, you might think that\u2019s a pretty enormous number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut what I\u2019m concerned about is listening to Mr Robertson talk about how everything\u2019s just going along fine and dandy. Well, they\u2019re saying it\u2019s all fine and dandy as a tsunami\u2019s coming at you. We\u2019ve got an enormous tsunami coming at us, and that is our export markets\u2014and thank goodness for the farmers, by the way. If we weren\u2019t producing all this food\u2014thankfully, people still have to eat, but they\u2019re not necessarily going to be eating quite the same quantity or quite the same as what we have, because we\u2019re exporting fine product. But if we didn\u2019t have the farmers\u2014if the Government had actually succeeded in undermining farmers so much they stopped bothering to produce\u2014we would be in very, very dire straits. Thank goodness. Think about Air New Zealand, for instance, and what they\u2019re going through at the moment: cutting flights\u2014they and many other airlines. This is not business as usual. About half of Air New Zealand\u2019s owned by the Government. We\u2019re going to have a massive loss coming up there. We\u2019ve got losses all over coming at us as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI just think it\u2019s important that we don\u2019t panic, that we don\u2019t race around buying up all the toilet paper produced at Kawerau and thinking we\u2019re the only people there. I think it\u2019s important that, when we look at our Australian cousins and that terrible video that I think we\u2019ve all seen of those Australian women fighting over toilet paper\u2014do you know my thoughts were? \u201COh gosh, I hope they\u2019re not New Zealanders and they get sent back here.\u201D We\u2019ve got enough trouble without that nonsense. But it\u2019s just a sign of panic, and people do, and they don\u2019t trust that the Government\u2019s in charge; that\u2019s one of the problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I think that the Government needs to not be so low key about it that nobody thinks they\u2019re doing anything, but telling people straight up what\u2019s happening: how many cases there are, what\u2019s happening here, what\u2019s being done. I think, hopefully, an immunisation regime will be put in place\u2014a vaccine will be put in place or found\u2014before it comes to New Zealand in a major way\u2014this COVID-19\u2014but let\u2019s be real here: this is going to seriously affect the economy, seriously affect jobs, seriously put at risk people\u2019s work, seriously put at risk people\u2019s wellbeing. This country doesn\u2019t need a Wellbeing Budget, it needs a Budget about keeping our people well, and that\u2019s something we\u2019re not seeing from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00229635d685fd9b42a9b38634bf8c949c53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229635d685fd9b42a9b38634bf8c949c53\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E That was one of the most contrite contributions that this House has seen in a long, long time. The previous contributor, Judith Collins, stood up and spoke to this House about lacking consistency and she spoke about business as usual. And then she talked about applauding the measures of other countries in their efforts to shut down borders, whilst at the same time lamenting the fact that we\u2019re having to slow down the number of international students coming into New Zealand at the moment. The consistency of the argument is lacking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe member started giving us doomsday scenarios and talking about the end of the world, almost, and then she said, \u201CBut let\u2019s not panic.\u201D It\u2019s just frustrating to listen to the members opposite politicise what is an incredibly important situation that this Government and the people of New Zealand\u2014the people themselves and the businesses of New Zealand\u2014need to work through together. I hope that as I stand in this House, I can give some reassurance to those businesses especially, but the people of New Zealand who have been told and updated and communicated to about what the situation is with COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EBut firstly, I would like to address, actually, the Budget Policy Statement, which the Finance and Expenditure Committee addressed. It is an opportunity, despite my reaction to the contributions opposite, to acknowledge the committee and the work that we do\u2014I being the deputy chair\u2014together with regard to the finance and expenditure of this fine country of ours. So we heard and we wrote the report, obviously, which we\u2019re debating now on, firstly, the Budget and the focus. And the member opposite spoke about not needing a Wellbeing Budget, and then finished, again, in a confusing way, saying, \u201CWe need to focus on the wellbeing of people.\u201D That\u2019s what this Budget does. That is what the policy statement has outlined, again, for this House and for the people of New Zealand to read, understand, and debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThis is a Budget that, like the one before it, has said that GDP cannot be the sole measure of success. I think even the members opposite surely will acknowledge that the irony of GDP itself is that it is both too broad and too narrow a measure for us to use to measure the success of an economy. As I have said many times in this House, Kuznets, the economist who designed and created GDP, said himself, at the creation of this tool, don\u2019t use it as a tool to measure the success of a nation\u2019s economy. It is a useful number and it is a useful insight, but it is not a measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo we have said that we must work at understanding what else is it that we measure, because I\u2019m not sure if the public at home will understand or realise that, for example, the rebuild of Christchurch, which was a necessary and important part of this country\u2019s history, was actually good for GDP. It was a measure and a positive on the outcome, but that took mass destruction. So how do we underlie and analyse what is it that is good? What is wellbeing for New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EAlso within this work that we have undertaken in the Wellbeing Budget 2020, we are looking at \u201CJust Transition\u2014Supporting New Zealand in the transition to a climate-resilient, sustainable, and low-emission economy\u201D. New Zealand First has always said\u2014and we\u2019ve worked with the farmers closely and come up with a good solution, despite the members opposite\u2014that a good proposition for New Zealand exporters is to stand up in our world market and put the provenance to our buyers around the world and to have that story to tell about happy employees working and earning a good living in their job and about an economy that understands their world commitment to carbon emissions, so that our buyers around the world can take satisfaction and take pride and actually pay a premium for New Zealand products because they understand, actually, the contribution that New Zealand is making in terms of fighting against carbon emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe second part is the \u201CFuture of Work\u2014Enabling all New Zealanders to benefit from new technologies and lift productivity through innovation\u201D. Again, New Zealand First, in particular, is proud of the efforts we made around the research and development legislation that we brought into the House in an incredibly important attempt, effort, and ongoing work where we have seen an increase in the investment and the incentivisation of investment into research and innovation by businesses in New Zealand. That, fundamentally, means more money in the economy but, long term, it means greater productivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe third tranche to this was \u201CM\u0101ori and Pacific\u201D, and as the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Provincial Growth Fund, or regional economic development, it has been a particular pleasure to work with Minister Jackson in our combined efforts to target work programmes in our regions where our M\u0101ori youth and Pacific youth but also our P\u0101keh\u0101 youth can be supported\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e853f1c9ae34b24b440e1caffe68191\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about economics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1f5093da1943b699624990b50bf06f\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014into work where otherwise they were ignored. I would go on about the nine long years of neglect, but the others on the other side of the House just couldn\u2019t bear to hear more about the truth there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe fourth part was about \u201CChild wellbeing\u2014Reducing child poverty and improving child wellbeing\u201D, and so the investment there from this Government has been unparalleled in modern times and it is already making a difference. I\u2019m already running out of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe last part of that was \u201CPhysical and Mental Wellbeing\u201D, and, actually, what I wanted to touch on there in another part of my speech, but I\u2019m running out of time, was the investment that this Government has made into health. I think the Minister of Finance touched on it in his contribution when he spoke about a health sector that this Government has invested in to the tune of billions of dollars, which means our front-line staff and the facilities that they need are actually, finally, coming into a place where they\u2019re up to the task of making sure that if COVID-19 becomes the health problem that we are seeing around the rest of the world, we are prepared. Our front-line staff and the facilities that they use are ready to go, and that is fundamental to making sure that New Zealanders and their wellbeing are looked after. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat I wanted to say in conclusion is to talk about what New Zealanders can expect from a Government in terms of an emergency situation like COVID-19 at the moment, and what I want to say and to talk about is the position that this country has come into as reported in the policy statement. We are at 4 percent unemployment and our wage growth is at 3.5 percent, while inflation costs are less than 2 percent, which, fundamentally, means more people are employed in the New Zealand economy and they have more disposable income to spend in the economy and to look after themselves and their family. That becomes a virtuous cycle as we move forward in making sure that the scare tactics from the Opposition don\u2019t work\u2014don\u2019t panic people\u2014and we move forward and give the confidence to New Zealanders that they can make sure that if they are looking after their health, we are looking after the economy and business, and doing all we can to make sure that we move forward productively and healthily. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002284009231a1734f24bea4832d2df6c470\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284009231a1734f24bea4832d2df6c470\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank goodness that\u2019s over. That\u2019s 10 minutes of my life I will never ever get back. That was a terrible wander through the broad subject, and I do hope that we get a better quality of debate and speech from the members on the other side than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat a difference three months makes, because when this Budget Policy Statement was written and analysed by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, things were very, very different. About the only thing that\u2019s the same now is the fact that we\u2019ve got the same Minister of Finance, although he\u2019s got the wrong photo. He\u2019s grinning from ear to ear about this document. He\u2019s not smiling now. He\u2019s not smiling now because things have materially changed, even in the three months since this statement was written. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EActually, there wasn\u2019t a lot of good news, despite the gilding of the lily by the Minister in this statement, because things were already going sour on the Government\u2019s watch. GDP growth was going down. Job creation was going down. Bear in mind that this Government inherited an economy that was creating 10,000 jobs per month, and, by sleight of hand, they managed to reduce that by 60 percent. Not in a recession and not in tough economic times, like the previous National Government had to deal with, but, actually, the very best of times, when commodity prices were high and growing, when inflation was low, and when the conditions for growth and supporting the very families that they describe their Budgets as about\u2014being wellbeing\u2014and they\u2019ve managed to reverse that trend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI, frankly, think one of the biggest mistakes the previous Government did was it didn\u2019t put a big, flashy neon light sign on its Budget, because it knew that every single Budget was about wellbeing\u2014every single one. Every investment that we make into the people of New Zealand is to improve their wellbeing. Well, words are fine; actions are what really counts when it comes to Budgets and Budget policy, and the fact is we are now looking at a very, very different picture. We started from a low base, a much lower base than our economy should have been at, and we\u2019re going backwards. Some of those things are matters that the Government does not control\u2014and I\u2019m going to talk about COVID-19 and the impact on both the economic update and the Budget which is being prepared\u2014but some of them are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe imposition of significant costs on business and on families and on job growth is going to have a material negative effect and undermine\u2014and, actually, we can throw this update out. In fact, I do feel\u2014I almost feel\u2014a bit sorry for the Minister of Finance in trying to come up with the mathematical alchemy that he will need to put together a Budget in May that he can still call \u201Cabout wellbeing\u201D. This will be about not wellbeing but about being well, because the COVID-19 outbreak has the potential to significantly undermine our country\u2019s wellbeing in the short term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt already has done economically, and the degree to which the economic pain lasts will be a function of the Government\u2019s management of the health effects of the coronavirus outbreak, and I have to say, as shadow Minister of Health, that my assessment of the Government\u2019s performance so far has been that it has been slow and lacking in energy. I want to compare what the Government has or has not done with the responses of countries with whom we and our friends compare ourselves. Even as recently as today, our neighbours across the Tasman have committed a billion dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220542d1545468484ebd7315932dc3bdd3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c0942b46a147dcb82974582b423931\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure they appropriated it, Madam Speaker, and it has a very significant effect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224855e4bc62ce478ebfbb1dd1cb51d4d4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It needs to relate to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022647087ff31344808ac92f8715dd164fb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it does because it is very much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f193880c307f444bbb322a8e82562765\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You need to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222272530dd5394ed892cb6a14f908ed18\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a broad-ranging debate, I would suggest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3cad66fa7141e082bdbb5930edf78f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not that broad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4b140dc8db47719be149153b343b58\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s broad enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022379ab1d650414a039693d2a5f529b030\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is on the Budget Policy Statement. So relate it to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0164e2bbf140388c2521decadc70cf\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Right\u2014I certainly shall. Things are bad and they\u2019re going to get worse. That is the simple measure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ff7cfcb688407baf0168f437b8841a\u0022\u003EAnahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u003C/span\u003E: Pessimist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bd9580044d6476fbac7d7944ef6986d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: The member says I\u2019m being a pessimist, and I think that was the accusation that was put by Fletcher Tabuteau to the previous speaker. I think there is a big difference between rhetoric and hyperbole and the reality of what\u2019s going on. Call me a number of things, but you would never call me an optimist when it comes to the situation that we face and the conditions within which Budget 2020 is going to be written. All of the slogans and all of the fancy hyperbole that comes out of the Government is not going to deliver the improvements that this country needs and the strategies to keep New Zealanders well through a significant economic and health crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIn particular, the very immediate effects of that on the Budget Policy Statement has been on our balance sheet, because our ACC investments, our superannuation fund, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, New Zealand fund investment vehicles are all taking significant hits to the point where the projections of income from those investments are going to be materially downgraded. That\u2019s the stuff that, potentially, the Government doesn\u2019t control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat it does control is spending, and what Treasury also said in its economic update was that the financial risks to our DHBs in not meeting their eye-wateringly high projected deficits for 2019-20 are very real. Indeed, that\u2019s been borne out by the fact that in the five months to date, the combined DHB deficits are now 24 percent higher than they were this time last year. So we could throw those projections out. Treasury were right that that fiscal risk is being realised and the Government is going to need to find, probably, I would predict\u2014because they didn\u2019t fund last year\u2019s deficits\u2014somewhere in the region of between $500 million and $600 million just to stand still. None of that is included in the numbers that underpin these two reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAnd that\u2019s before we get to the effects of COVID-19, and what we\u2019re hearing from the health sector is that that investment is not being made. We see our friends in Australia, in the United States, appropriating over US$8 billion over the weekend, taking dramatic steps to reduce the financial impact of that and appropriate it through their Budgets. We\u2019ve done nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got doctors telling the media that the DHBs are asking them to fund their own personal protective equipment (PPE), to keep those patients out of the very hospitals that the DHBs run. That is outrageous. It is penny-pinchy, and it is not the actions of a Government that portrays its budgeting as being about wellbeing. And we\u2019re only at the start of the slide. I know that if we don\u2019t get a sustained community outbreak, it will be because we got lucky. But if we do, it will be because we did not take energetic, proactive, nimble steps to prevent the virus being spread.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Health in question time talked about how great the close-contact precautions to keep people safe from that virus were, and yet being in a mosh pit at a concert with lots of sweaty people around them, within a metre, doesn\u2019t meet his definition of close contact. For that reason, the risks of a sustained community outbreak and the significant healthcare, social and fiscal costs to this country are significant, and none of that\u2019s mentioned here. None of that is mentioned here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENever mind what kind of response they\u2019re going to give, not a single dollar of extra money has gone into prevention or control or recovery. We\u2019ve got our fingers crossed on the Treasury benches, and that\u2019s not good enough. This Budget Policy Statement is a relic. It is out of date three months after it was written. The conditions on which it was built, poor though they were, have changed for the materially worse. That worries me. I think the Government needs to be much more realistic. People like Tamati Coffey and Fletcher Tabuteau can actually be a little more measured and a little less of a cheerleader for a Government that\u2019s failing to deliver for New Zealanders\u2014because talk\u2019s cheap; actions matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENational delivers. It delivered through two earthquakes. It delivered through a global financial crisis, and it will deliver again, and the country will not need to wait. It will deliver from day one, and that day is about 197 days away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002218ec645e410640199a5eae17cca5274c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ec645e410640199a5eae17cca5274c\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just before I turn to the substance of the debate, I just want to take this moment to acknowledge the passing of Sir Rob Fenwick, who died, after a five-year dance with cancer, in the last 24 hours. I know that the House will want to mark Sir Rob\u2019s passing in an appropriate way, but given the proximity of the event, I thought I would just take this moment. He was one of the greatest environmentalists our country\u2019s ever seen. He was one of the most extraordinarily kind and generous, thoughtful and committed human beings that I\u2019ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. I think his loss will be felt greatly, not just by his friends and family, for whom we give our condolences, but also by the whole country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI want to pick up, in the spirit of this being an actual debate, on some of the comments of the previous speaker, Michael Woodhouse. One of the things that he said in his address is that there are things that are beyond the Government\u2019s control, such as the arrival of the COVID-19 virus and the impact that that has, but there are also things that the Government can control. And one of the things that he said that the Government can control is spending. He is, of course, completely correct. Governments can use spending to keep the economy buoyant, to keep cash flowing through the economy, and, in fact, that is exactly what we are doing. So I\u2019ve got good news for Michael Woodhouse in that regard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere has been a multi-decade under-investment, particularly in infrastructure, particularly in social infrastructure and natural infrastructure in New Zealand, and this Budget Policy Statement directly refers to what our intentions are, what to do about that. Figure 2 on page 6 talks about net capital spending and actually shows the amount of money that this Government is planning to invest in the economy, not just to keep money going but also to make up for some of that extraordinary deficit in our water, in our transport, in our regions, in our cities, and in our natural capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI would actually have to say that when he talked about the job that National did in analogous circumstances\u2014not similar, but analogous circumstances\u2014through the global financial crisis and the Christchurch earthquakes: yes, they went from a position of no net debt as a percentage of GDP, and obviously leveraged up to deal with those and continued to spend, but, actually, being fiscally conservative probably had a dampening effect on the economy and kept those constraints on longer than was necessary. One of the impacts of that is that whilst central government might have kept its levels of debt low, actually, if you look at household debt, which shows up on page 9 of the Budget Policy Statement, what you will see is that that rose over the period of National being in Government. The reason for that is because there was not sufficient social spending going on in the economy over that period of time. So what has happened is that, because National doesn\u2019t believe in paying people minimum wages and because they think that the costs should be borne by low-income families rather than by all of us equally, actually what that has done is driven households into debt. We see some of the consequences of that, and it\u2019s going to take quite some time for us to unwind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMr Woodhouse says that every Budget is about wellbeing, and to some extent that is true. The reason why this Government\u2019s wellbeing approach is different from previous Governments\u2014not just the previous National Government but all previous Governments\u2014is that by the \u201Cwellbeing approach\u201D we\u2019re referring to a very specific way of putting Budgets together. Many of the features are exactly the same as they have been for many years: Ministers and agencies put in bids, and so on, and those things have to have a benefit-cost analysis attached to them. But in the wellbeing approach that\u2019s being used by this Government, and it gets extended through this Budget Policy Statement, actually what\u2019s happening is that, in addition to those normal benefit-cost ratios, there are additional pieces of analysis where those bids have to demonstrate how they contribute to the stock of human capital or natural capital or both in Aotearoa New Zealand. So it\u2019s actually a higher hurdle for Budget bids to have to go through; it\u2019s actually a more scientifically led approach than Governments in New Zealand, of any hue, have done in the past. It is an added discipline to the Budget process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not going to pretend that it\u2019s perfect; we\u2019ve only been at it for a few years. Every iteration over the course of the last three years has gotten more sophisticated and we\u2019ve learnt from some of the, you know, holes and the patches from the year before. But it is a very significant development, and it\u2019s one that I\u2019m very pleased that we\u2019re continuing, and to see it reflected through this Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI just want to refer, also, to some of the things that are actually outlined in this Budget Policy Statement. Again, to, sort of, Michael Woodhouse\u2019s point, the things that he seems to think that we shouldn\u2019t be spending money on include major investments in rebuilding the health sector, major investments in core Crown education expenditure, addressing child poverty, lifting outcomes for M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples and communities that are traditionally excluded in our political economy, enhancing the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship as we move into a post-settlement world, strengthening the aspirations of Pacific peoples, strengthening our response to climate change, dealing with a 30-year infrastructure deficit. I mean, the idea that, actually, these things are somehow optional and that we shouldn\u2019t do them is, to me, ridiculous. I\u2019m very proud of this Government for investing in these things. Actually, when you have an economic downturn, when you have a risk presented such as with COVID-19 and you are looking at a period which is going to be tough for the economy to handle, these are exactly the things that we should continue to invest in\u2014and I would argue actually invest more in\u2014because it gets money flowing into the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe one thing that Michael Woodhouse was correct on is that the thing that the Government can control is expenditure, and, actually, in continuing to invest in infrastructure and health and education, in the environment and in our people, not only are we building up the resilience of our people to be able to respond to crises like the COVID-19 challenge that\u2019s in front of us; we\u2019re also continuing to stimulate the economy. If you decide that you don\u2019t want to do those things, you actually pull that money out of the economy at exactly the same time as businesses are facing a downturn. That\u2019s when you really run into trouble; you actually make a downturn worse and you run the risk of tipping the country into a recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo I would say that, actually, this Budget Policy Statement is relevant. I know that, obviously, there is, you know, new information\u2014shall we say?\u2014that\u2019s popped up since it was published and since it was written. But the fundamentals of this Budget are solid; they are important when times are good, they are also important in times of challenge like the ones that we have in front of us. So I think that this is a good start for the Budget process. I commend this and I commend the work of the committee to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022989b4a756766417aa445968c1e5b9c92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022989b4a756766417aa445968c1e5b9c92\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to have a contribution in the Budget Policy Statement debate and particularly a pleasure to follow on from the Hon James Shaw, who correctly pointed out that the only thing the Government can do in this situation is control expenditure. So I suggest that the Hon James Shaw has a very quick word with his parliamentary colleague\u2014in fact, his Cabinet colleague\u2014the Hon Shane Jones, and starts controlling expenditure, because the revelation yesterday and again in the House today of over $1 million wasted by officials, going around the country, trying to solicit bids for the Provincial Growth Fund, trying to solicit bids for the slush fund developed by New Zealand First\u2014absolute waste of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223066780bdfc546cdbf2a38f2c0208df5\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: What did you guys do for the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022716f15661f0141229aa00531e71f903b\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Darroch Ball will have his chance for a valedictory speech very shortly; he doesn\u2019t need to start now. It\u2019s not far away, Mr Ball. But I suggest that if the Hon James Shaw wants to do anything to help the situation that the Government finds itself in, start talking to his own Cabinet colleagues and start to control some of the expenditure that is clearly being wasted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge that of the many Budget Policy Statement debates I\u2019ve been involved in, none has been quite like this one when we\u2019ve had such a short time lag between the publication of the Budget Policy Statement and such significant changes in the economic outlook, to the extent that the document we\u2019re discussing today is completely outdated. Of course, it was signed off by the Minister the Hon Grant Robertson with a huge photograph and a smile on his face on 11 December 2019, and here we are less than three months on; the situation has changed dramatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe at the Finance and Expenditure Committee had the opportunity to talk to both the Secretary to the Treasury, the Governor of the Reserve Bank, and the Minister himself before we prepared the report. I note that Tamati Coffey\u2019s in the House; he will have remembered my contribution and my question as we deliberated on this report. If he looks at page 5, there\u2019s a bold heading there: \u201CThe outlook for the economy remains positive\u201D. I took issue with this; I said, \u201CI don\u2019t think we\u2019re being realistic in saying the outlook to the economy remains positive.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe heard\u2014in fact, we quote\u2014the rate of economic growth is projected to rise in 2020 and beyond\u2014the outlook for GDP growth to increase from 2.2 percent in 2019 to over 2.8 percent in 2021. I said to the committee at the time, \u201CThat headline is misleading.\u201D But I think it might have been the chair herself who wanted me to then look at the next headline, which was\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CBut the full impact of COVID-19 outbreak on the economy is unknown\u201D. And with that I totally agree because I remember the questions we raised of the Secretary to the Treasury and of Adrian Orr, the Governor of the Reserve Bank. We were asking them: what about the effect of COVID-19? This is now three weeks after the outbreak had reached prominence in China, so it was early in the current worldwide development of COVID-19. Neither Mrs McLeish or Mr Orr had a clue as to how COVID-19 would affect the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t say that as a criticism of those two officers. The world was in uncharted territory. We had a pandemic developing at that stage in Mainland China, the risk of outbreaks to other countries, and as we\u2019ve all seen\u2014in the months since we signed the report off before the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014this pandemic has moved from Mainland China. In fact, Mainland China, I would suggest, has basically got it under control but you\u2019ve got countries like Iran, you\u2019ve got countries like Italy, you\u2019ve got potential developments in the United States of America and the United Kingdom. You\u2019ve certainly got cases in our own nearest major trading partner, of course, Australia, and we\u2019ve got positive cases here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Government: the impression you are giving New Zealand voters is that as a Government, you\u2019re scrambling to respond to the COVID-19 outbreak. In the Budget Policy Statement, we would hope we\u2019d have some surety from people like Adrian Orr, but we didn\u2019t get it. And I\u2019ll give you an example of why I say this amateurish Government is struggling to respond. And we saw it today in the House with questions to the Minister for Social Development around the response of Social Development to the potential for people to be laid off from jobs and then their eligibility for the jobseeker benefit\u2014the dole, which she won\u2019t allow to be called the dole, but most people know it as the dole. The Minister informed the House, as had been actually made public probably a week ago, that they\u2019d adjusted the stand-down period. Positive move\u2014a good move. But what I was alarmed to hear today in the House in question time is that doesn\u2019t become effective until 23 March\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e0c149a93be42f5808544aca90327a8\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220859422f4314c42b8ee810924c01f53\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: 23 March was what the Minister said in the House today. So there\u2019s an opportunity for the Minister for Social Development to actually respond positively to the outbreak of COVID-19, both in New Zealand and the effect it will have on the economy, and again, either through laziness or through incompetence she hasn\u2019t made an immediate announcement to fix the stand-down period. She hasn\u2019t even asked her own ministry to update reports about what potential rise in numbers to the jobseeker benefit there could be because of COVID-19. And it\u2019s that sort of response that you\u2019re getting from this Labour Jacinda Ardern - led Government that New Zealanders have not got confidence in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI say to the members on the other side of the House, the Government members, if you want to see an example of a crisis that hits quickly, go back to the earthquake situation in my city of Christchurch. The earthquakes occurred, from memory, on a Saturday, a Cabinet meeting on a Monday, and a wage subsidy announced at the end of that Cabinet meeting. There wasn\u2019t time to put parameters around it. People were suddenly without regular wages. The Government needed to do something and it did something and it did something almost immediately. And then we had the Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes. Same response from the John Key - led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo the Government needs to look at some of these examples because they\u2019re relatively recent. The situation we have now is at least as critical to the New Zealand economy and it\u2019s time for a response. And if you think back to what happened last Monday after Cabinet, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance called a press conference to announce a package of support for business. And you know the essence of the announcement: we will call another press conference next Monday and then we\u2019ll give you details. Another week lost as businesses can\u2019t afford to hang around while the Government flounders and struggles to find a response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Ministers sitting on the other side, I say to aspiring Ministers sitting on the other side\u2014well, they haven\u2019t got much hope because we\u2019re nearly at election time. But I say to them \u201CDon\u2019t be too proud to have a look at the way the John Key Government handled a crisis.\u201D because that\u2019s what New Zealanders want to see. They want to see a response. They don\u2019t want a press conference called, with all the palaver of the press conference being called, to be told, \u201CWait another week for this announcement.\u201D I say to Grant Robertson that time is running out, because I know of businesses that are struggling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI want to address my final minute to the fallacy that Grant Robertson continues to run\u2014and he did it in his contribution to the House this afternoon in this debate\u2014that the New Zealand economy is in good shape and it\u2019s resilient enough to withstand this crisis. The New Zealand economy was in good shape before the country elected a Labour - New Zealand First - Greens Government. But the opportunities given by that strong economy, which this Government inherited, have been completely squandered with the likes of the wasteful expenditure we heard about in the House today from the Hon Shane Jones and his provincial slush fund. The economy was not resilient. It is not in good shape. That\u2019s why there\u2019s an urgency for this Government to bring a package together as quickly as possible, and if it doesn\u2019t happen by next Monday, then it will be too late. New Zealand businesses are struggling. People will be unemployed shortly unless this Government responds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab548ac27f214341a575fa98533be603\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab548ac27f214341a575fa98533be603\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7ab96e0462b4cfbaf008e8a0a49e125\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7ab96e0462b4cfbaf008e8a0a49e125\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ll only have to put up with a few more contributions in this House from that member, the Rt Hon David Carter, and rightfully so, because he\u2019s putting\u2014so what we\u2019ve seen a lot of in this House is we\u2019ve seen a lot of scaremongering and actually we need to call it out because what it\u2019s doing and the effect that it\u2019s having on the people out there in New Zealand is not good. It\u2019s making them panic buy, it\u2019s making them panic\u2014full stop\u2014and we need to turn that around and we need to inform people with fact. And fact is really good. And here\u2019s a fact for you: actually, the Budget Policy Statement said that the economic outlook is good. So I agree with my fellow Finance and Expenditure Committee member over there. It is good. They don\u2019t want to believe it on that side of the House, though, because they just couldn\u2019t fathom the thought that a Labour and New Zealand First and Greens Government just could have a handle on the economy. They just can\u2019t believe it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s chuck some facts in there, because actually that was what was in the conversations that we had with the Reserve Bank and on our committee. Unemployment is down to 4.2. M\u0101ori unemployment is the lowest that it\u2019s been in a decade. Annual wage growth is incredibly high. The minimum wage is going up. And at a time when, obviously, we are facing this crisis, you can do two things. You can either continue to invest in the people who are on the lowest wages in the country or you can pull back on that. And the Opposition ideologically would say that it\u2019s time to pull back on it, but over on this side of the House we think that when New Zealanders have got more money in their pocket they head back out into the economy, into their local economy, and they spend that money around. So now is not a time to be frugal, as they would have you believe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThey would like to paint a picture of us being the all-spending Government. But actually, what we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re investing in this country like it\u2019s never been invested in before. The Government\u2019s priorities for the Wellbeing Budget 2020 are about \u201CJust Transition\u2014supporting New Zealanders in the transition to a climate-resilient, sustainable, and low-emissions economy\u201D. That\u2019s a great thing. There are people out there in New Zealand who would hear that and go, \u201CWhat a noble priority that is. Push that up.\u201D So that\u2019s one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u201CFuture of work\u2014enabling all New Zealanders to benefit from new technologies and lift productivity through innovation\u201D. Again, a great priority that\u2019s really hard to argue with. And here\u2019s another one, and I\u2019ll probably call these ones out together: \u201CM\u0101ori and Pacific\u201D\u2014to have that as a priority in terms of \u201Clifting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities\u201D is just something that I find incredibly hard to negate and that\u2019s what the Opposition will try to do. They\u2019ll try to tell you that actually it\u2019s not worth it. But actually we\u2019re here saying that that is one of our priorities and that\u2019s what we\u2019re investing in. There is \u201CChild wellbeing\u2014reducing child poverty and improving child wellbeing\u201D in our communities\u2014and, of course, physical and mental wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EWhen we came into Government, we knew that we had a mental health crisis, because our people were telling us. They were telling us that they wanted change and they wanted our Government to deal with that. So, again, we have had unprecedented investment into mental health, and that\u2019s something that I\u2019m incredibly proud to be a part of this Government for. And it\u2019s something that, actually, I tip my hat to the leadership of our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, who has done a brilliant job of leading us despite the shocks that we\u2019ve had as a country just in the short couple of years that we\u2019ve been in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EAs we sat on that committee, first of all I want to thank all of the submitters that came before our committee and put forward their different points of view. Of course, there was, as you would imagine, a spectrum of views, but I have got to say a common thread there that was coming through again and again in these submissions was that they felt that the Government was on the right track. They felt that we were the ones that were tackling the long-term problems, and they felt that we were the ones that had our priorities in order. Those Budget 2020 priorities are listed there. They engaged with them on behalf of their organisations that they represented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EOne thing that has been talked about is the impact of COVID-19. The member opposite was right: this wasn\u2019t a thing\u2014we didn\u2019t even know about it\u2014when the Budget Policy Statement came out, but actually we took the opportunity in the committee to talk about it, and the reason that we\u2019re going to be able to tackle it head on is because the economy is doing really well. We have gone and prepared ourselves the best we can for this, and yes, it is an evolving situation, and yes, we haven\u2019t got all the answers, but yes, we\u2019re going to make sure that New Zealanders are looked after in this process, during this outbreak, to make sure that they\u2019re informed with facts and make sure that they\u2019re looked after now and into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u0022122b260d7dba4e6ab31a03630ceb5883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022122b260d7dba4e6ab31a03630ceb5883\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a short call on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). Can I, first, begin by just critiquing Tamati Coffey\u2019s observations. Firstly, he raises the issue around the levels of panic in this country. He\u2019s right: they\u2019re rising. But he\u2019s wrong about the cause. The cause isn\u2019t New Zealanders reaching that view because they feel that they\u2019ve just naturally fallen into that state. They look at the capability that sits on the Treasury benches and they know that, fundamentally, they don\u2019t have the ability to manage through it. They\u2019ve got no trade experience. They\u2019ve got no commercial experience. They have never in their own lives, in their lived experience, been exposed to something as complex and whole of country and economy of this scale\u2014and, bluntly, they\u2019re bereft of ideas as to how to do it. So they end up returning to process and platitudes. Last week, we were told that we were going to have an announcement, and a week later that it was coming in a week\u2019s time. They\u2019re out of their depth, and it\u2019s their actions every day which is reinforcing the sense of unease in this country, and the sooner they realise that and actually grip it, the better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to talk about\u2014as has already been covered by a lot of speakers\u2014is that the deterioration of the New Zealand economy in the few months since this statement was put on the Table is severe and acute. What I find quite remarkable is that, as the Government is flailing around looking for ways of protecting and buttressing the economy from the shocks that it is living in and is likely to live in over the next few months, they are turning to the very sector that they have spent the last two years trying to unwind, constrain, and whack, which is the agricultural sector of this country. As they see economic confidence eroding beneath their feet, as they see unemployment starting to rise, GDP growth stalling and going into likely recession, the one sector that could be the difference between a deep, deep recession and something which is bearable in this country will be the strength of our food exports to the world. How quickly has their tune changed, confronted with the reality that, actually, 70 percent of our country\u2019s exports come from food and fibre, and actually they are sectors that deserve to be worked with, not condemned\u2014celebrated and not looked to be constrained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EYou have heard it in some of the conversations about the BPS already this afternoon. They have put in place over the last two years a view that freshwater management should be so acutely changed that fundamental land-use change should occur in this country. They talk about the importance of decarbonising the economy. In their own report in the last week, the Ministry for the Environment has made, looking forward to 2035, their assessment that there will be 20 percent less sheep and beef hectares in this country\u2014a drop from eight million; 1.3 million hectares less\u2014to about 6.8 million. Their own report! So here you have the dichotomy of a Government that is out of their depth in terms of knowing how to respond. The only sector which is buttressing the economy from freefall is the food export sector in particular, but their activity for the last two years has been to pull together a suite of policy initiatives\u2014be it carbon tax, be it freshwater, be it biodiversity\u2014all aimed to make that sector feel less supported, more vulnerable, more unable to see a way of continuing to produce what our historic competitive advantage has been. They put in their own Budget Policy Statement that their vision is just transitions away from sectors where we\u2019ve been historically strong in. For goodness\u2019 sake, wake up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe are part of a world that has got 180 countries. The Government works on behalf of 5 million people whose economic interests are under pressure and under threat, and the way we get there is by producing food and fibre for the rest of the world. Start supporting them. Start working with them. Admit in this House that actually the policy prescription that your ideological hearts have driven you to is wrong and that what is required is a far more holistic approach around what are the strengths of this country. How do we work with those sectors to support them to ensure that the recession that looms in front of us over the next two, three, four, five months is not as acute as possible? For a party that says at its core it represents and cares for people, why don\u2019t you realise that what actually matters for them is a job in an economy that\u2019s working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00224469b742ab444934b0096c4cdb704471\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224469b742ab444934b0096c4cdb704471\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002259ed7e71c0ab4a239d71f1a745d37071\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259ed7e71c0ab4a239d71f1a745d37071\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Before I begin contributing to this debate on the Budget Policy Statement, I wish to acknowledge, as the member of Parliament for Epsom, the passing of Sir Rob Fenwick, a tremendous man that I was grateful to know, a fabulous conservationist, a fabulous entrepreneur, philanthropist, and New Zealander who will be sadly missed by our community and many others. Farewell, Sir Rob.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to this Budget Policy Statement, it is only weeks old but aeons out of date. This report forecasts 2.4 percent economic growth for the year\u2014two weeks ago, that was slowing, but believable. In the last week, markets have dropped 15 percent and we\u2019re heading into bear territory. Nearly every bank is telling us we\u2019re in for a rough ride. ANZ has firms\u2019 own activity expectations at the lowest since 2009, the BNZ was first to forecast recession this year, Westpac is forecasting a 28 percent drop in visitor arrivals\u2014this correction has been coming a long time. We have had the longest expansionary cycle in the post-war era and we may be experiencing the greatest correction in that era too. And the anecdotes are scarier: I was talking to a guy who\u2019s a motor vehicle dealer a couple of days ago. He\u2019d just had an order for six utes cancelled after they came off the boat\u2014and why? Because they were supposed to be headed for the forestry industry, and the forestry industry is at a standstill. Businesses up and down this country are moving to plan B because they see what\u2019s coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party\u2014for two years\u2014has said that we have a Government led by a Prime Minister who is the best marketer in world politics today but the worst deliverer. And what this sea change of the last couple of weeks means is that the day for gesture politics is over; the day for economic management and leadership has arrived. One only needs to look at the bullet points heading up this report on the Government\u2019s Budget Policy Statement and see what they are talking about: \u201CJust Transition \u2026 Future of Work \u2026 M\u0101ori and Pacific \u2026 Child Wellbeing \u2026 Physical and Mental Wellbeing\u201D\u2014all things that sounded good when times were good, all things that are noble aims if you have a Government that knows how to pay for it, but what\u2019s absent from this Government\u2019s economic strategy is a way to manage the economic downturn and pay for all the good things that they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just that the gesture politics of this Government are ineffective for the economy; they\u2019re damaging. So many of the gestures actually sideswipe people trying to do productive things, which was a problem when we had relatively good economic conditions but is dire now that we face bad economic conditions. Banning oil and gas\u2014the shock of that and the impact on the perception of New Zealand as a safe place to do business is unaffordable. The one-size-fits-all freshwater regulations imposed on the rural sector\u2014which other speakers have rightly noticed is the one sector that can pull New Zealand through because people eat no matter what, even if they don\u2019t holiday\u2014is far too expensive and is forecast to reduce the number of jobs in dairy by 15 to 20 percent with good conditions. The zero carbon Act is a slap in the face for every single farmer in this country. The new tenancy laws mean that people are abandoning the rental market as landlords in droves, pushing up rents and making things harder. Wasteful spending\u2014the fees free, the Provincial Growth Fund. These are nice to haves in good economic times that are unaffordable in bad. This year\u2019s minimum wage increase\u2014ACT started the chorus. Economists from across the political spectrum\u2014Shamubeel Eaqub, Sharon Zollner, the National Party\u2014have all joined the chorus, saying this minimum wage increase scheduled for April must end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut, finally, if this Government is serious, it must cut taxes to stimulate the economy. The ACT Party has the numbers and the plan ready. If we want to have businesses succeed and keep employing people, we need three tax rates of 10, 15, and 25, and we can see how we do it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fb774e4703d4735bc5c466376102697\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What about poor people succeeding, David?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257f007e5ff504f5aafef39533b445f1c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Poor people pay taxes, too. Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick asked about poor people\u2014they pay taxes, too. That\u2019s why you\u2019ve got to cut the taxes. That\u2019s the kind of management this Government needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002269ad85c82c2940d89c514b25aadc64e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269ad85c82c2940d89c514b25aadc64e2\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, in times of strife, leadership is that that can turn a steady hand and steer the ship, and to that extent, I want to acknowledge the leadership of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern and our finance Minister in particular, the Hon Grant Robertson, for doing what they had always said that they would do\u2014they had planned for a rainy day. At a time when the Opposition were throwing darts when things were well, because this side of the House weren\u2019t spending enough, it was the Hon Grant Robertson that said, \u201CHey, let\u2019s keep some change in our back pocket for when a rainy day comes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, if we look at the Budget Policy Statement\u2014yep, the Budget Policy Statement was released in December 2019. That set forth our objectives\u2014our vision\u2014for how we would be, and how we are, approaching our economic growth, but also how we weather storms. We held the hearings with the Hon Grant Robertson, and we questioned him in February. Coronavirus, at that time, was already apparent, and it was an opportunity for all of us, from both sides of the House, to ask poignant questions about how New Zealand would weather the storm as we went into a time of uncertainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, I call on the Opposition to cease fire with the absolute scaremongering tactics because our populace deserve better in a time of strife. We have just heard from the spokesperson for agriculture for the Opposition\u2014somebody who I\u2019ve had time for in the past\u2014but my patience is wearing thin because I have seen that gentleman go into rural communities and stir nothing but fear. The facts are, over the past two years this side of the House has held the keys to the Treasury benches, the rural economy has experienced a surplus of $6.9 billion. That\u2019s not the scare and fear that the Opposition is touting up and down the country. So I implore those on the left, the right, the centre of the spectrum to find the calm and listen to fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThe facts are that New Zealand has positioned itself to survive whatever it is that would come our way, and here comes that day. The facts are, at a time when GDP was stagnating across the globe, New Zealand survived that period well; our growth has been tracking comparatively to those of our comparable other countries, higher than most others, where we are sitting at around 2.8 percent. Our debt when we took over the Treasury benches, we were sitting up at around 22.4 percent. Well, under the steady management of this side of the House, that has tracked downwards\u2014we\u2019re sitting at around about 19.5 percent. Comparable to other nations, other nations in the OECD, we are well placed to survive today\u2019s storm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, if we look at the position that we actually find ourselves in, we are at a time of unprecedented\u2014over the last decade\u2014unemployment rates. They\u2019re sitting at 4 percent; not once could the Opposition ever claim that statistic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe are sitting at a time where New Zealanders are confident\u2014and this is a thing that I think that the Opposition are also struggling with\u2014all the polls are saying that there is a confidence in this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222566de59969c424094115e0d6b23d261\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m sorry, that has nothing to do with the Budget statement. Let\u2019s not talk about polls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad5849074acf48b592badf67eb549973\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me turn to the Budget Policy Statement, because that is what is being said in the report that came back: that we are in a strong fiscal position. Now, we are at a time when we are investing, New Zealand, and I want to turn to what that investment means at a practical measure, not a hyperbolic one that the Opposition wants to cast aspersions across. But I want to turn to a real practical measure: investment in our communities. Rural and regional economies have not seen investment like they have experienced until this Government. I want to take \u014Cp\u014Dtiki as an example of that, to talk about the five criteria that we have hit. M\u0101ori and Pacific, we make up over 50 percent of the population in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, and $79.4 million has gone into the \u014Cp\u014Dtiki Harbour investment, creating 1,800 jobs. That, there, is a country that is invested in its rural and regional communities. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa7f681e52b44ba5a802613a903f0868\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa7f681e52b44ba5a802613a903f0868\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m sort of slightly reluctant to stand up because I know you have delicate ears, and, on this side of the House, we have just endured a speech that I think just demonstrates why this Government shouldn\u2019t be on that side of the House, because that was from a person who did not understand the Budget Policy Statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, before I start officially, I just want to also acknowledge Sir Rob Fenwick. I got to know Rob about 20 years ago, through a business connection, and, during the 20 years I\u2019ve known him, he was a wonderfully kind and great person to be with, and I know his family will be feeling his loss dearly today. But he was a great New Zealander, and it\u2019s very appropriate that we pay tribute to him today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement: that was only released literally a few weeks ago\u2014very glossy and it looks wonderful on the outside, and there\u2019s a lovely photo here. And, you know, it talks about a focus on wellbeing, and the approach involves identifying areas based on their potential to provide the greatest opportunity to make a difference to the wellbeing of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, you know, it\u2019s full of hyperbole and it\u2019s full of wonderful statements and glossy graphs, and they always seem to be going up and then they go down, and it\u2019s got all the stuff that you would expect if you\u2019re making a good political speech. But, actually\u2014and if that member who has just spoken had actually looked at it\u2014this is what it also said: it said that the operating balance before gains and losses, OBEGAL as it\u2019s commonly known, is forecast to be in deficit for the 2019-20 year, and lower each year thereafter, than previously forecast. So by 2022-23, net core Crown debt is now expected to be $9.2 billion higher under the current framework that this Government\u2014this New Zealand First - Labour - Greens Government\u2014has put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022445b452cb94e444aab1a00ebfbd23f25\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: How much debt did National have? Answer that question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275c2f10355504391a57ebb641ddfa6da\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014and I\u2019m just hearing a question from the other side\u2014you know what this figure does not include? Does not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d37c04895ac24687a7ad3334cce59146\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member has repeatedly and quite aggressively used the personal pronoun, which is out of order, while pointing at one of my colleagues, and I\u2019d bring that to your attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216a2b0c2abc04525a040c7d461d2cdff\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb28144927a54775b5038765b8e5944e\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. And I\u2019d just like to elucidate on that point. The member was asking about the debt figure. I\u2019ll say to you, even though it\u2019s $9.2 billion higher under your Government\u2014being the New Zealand First - Labour Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce83630fb7cc418c9c7fc116dc80a3ed\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Bayly, having had that drawn to your attention by the chief whip, it might be useful if you refrain from it now. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022177e0e11a5964ef8a855893298945a3f\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you\u2014the Government. This excludes the $7 billion that is actually off balance sheet and not in the figures\u2014which, conveniently by the Minister of Finance, is excluded from his calculations. And that is very, very substantial. So the talk\u2014and we heard it from the Minister before when he made commentary on this Budget that, you know, we\u2019ve been facing these headwinds, and under our Government, prior to us going in 2017, we were averaging over 3 percent GDP, which is just figures to people listening in. But what has happened, and this Budget statement refers to it, we have seen a substantial drop in the GDP\u2014virtually by half. Now, to put that in context, we have seen the economic growth of New Zealand drop by about $4.5 billion a year. That means we are seeing people\u2014businesses, their profits are lower because they simply cannot sell as much as they might have done if National had continued in power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also seeing that the spending is lower because it simply is not happening. We\u2019re also seeing that incomes of people are reduced because they have simply not had the money, and if you are running a business where your profits are down, you are not earning that amount of money. So all that $4.5 billion that\u2019s just been disappeared out of the economy last year has just vanished. You can never get it back. It has gone into thin air. That is the problem with this Government. It has slowly ground its way down, starting from a position that was incredibly strong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd the thing that\u2019s most concerning, when you read the Budget Policy Statement\u2014it talks about the record terms of trade. And what that means is that when we sell our products overseas, we\u2019re getting a very high value for them and when we\u2019re buying those products, buying products to come back into New Zealand\u2014imports\u2014we\u2019re paying less for them. That is the issue that we\u2019ve got. We\u2019ve got record terms of trade for our exporters, so we should be achieving much higher rates of growth, and that has been squandered. That is the thing about this Budget Policy Statement that is so bad, that is so disappointing, because we are unfulfilled potential in New Zealand. We are losing the opportunity to grow this economy much faster as we need to be to be keeping in line with all those dynamic economies in Asia that we\u2019re trying to trade with. That is how you create real wealth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat this Government has achieved is to settle us back into the old sort of slow growth rate that we were achieving back in the 1980s and the 1990s, which was subpar and had left New Zealand behind, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re falling behind Australia. That\u2019s why we need to get back into a fast-growing economy, but the Government has the problem because it doesn\u2019t quite know how to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd of course, all that was before we suddenly have some real headwinds, which unfortunately is known as COVID-19. That is the issue\u2014that is the issue. We now have people very, very worried in the economy. The thing is\u2014and I spoke about this the other day and some members from the Government laughed at it. The real issue at the moment for those 500,000 small businesses in New Zealand\u2014the issue that will be keeping the husbands and wives awake at night\u2014is not the thought of whether they might get a dole payment, but simply whether they\u2019ve got enough money to pay the wages tomorrow morning. That is the primary issue that our business owners in New Zealand, spread across all the small townships in New Zealand, rural New Zealand, as well as in the big cities\u2014that is what\u2019s keeping them awake at night. That is the fear. That is the fear for these people, because their employees are part of their family and they\u2019re worrying about how they\u2019re going to pay for them, how they\u2019re going to pay for those wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo what we need is a Government that knows what it\u2019s doing. And, you know, when you look at situations like this, and they are trying\u2014you need to be able to look at what you are going to do to help. We\u2019ve heard the Minister talk about how we\u2019re going to make it easier for the IRD, more flexible about you paying your tax. Well, actually, if you\u2019re worrying about your wages tomorrow and if you can\u2019t pay your wages and you\u2019re going to have to fire your best friend tomorrow, it\u2019s actually a bit of an academic argument. And, by the way, the thing that tips businesses over is the inability to pay their wages, not actually whether they can pay their tax. It\u2019s the wages that tip New Zealand businesses over. So having this Minister of Finance talking about \u201CWe\u2019ll make it a little bit easier for you to pay our tax to us, who earn $83 billion as the Government.\u201D is just the wrong thing and it shows a Minister who does not understand business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard about these social welfare payments, about on the dole payments. Again, they\u2019re academic. We need people in work, staying in work\u2014staying in work. We don\u2019t want people on the dole going home and telling their wives and their husbands that they have been made redundant, that they\u2019ve lost their job of 20 years, and that\u2019s the situation we\u2019re looking at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe need a Government that actually knows how to spend, and the trouble with this Government is that it has underspent on infrastructure, particularly on big projects. We\u2019ve lost all the capability, so they\u2019ve underspent at the time we should have been spending, and now when we want to do it, they talk about shovel-ready projects, which basically are National roads, but unfortunately all the people have left. It\u2019s going to take a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0c6dc84c464d7faa4709d2cd32cb9b\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Bridges to nowhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acbc4e163b3145ad897505be8496d454\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Duncan Webb says \u201CNo, it\u2019s not.\u201D Go and talk to Fletcher\u2019s. They lost most of their people from Christchurch who went off to Australia because that\u2019s where the current infrastructure boom is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe also need a Government that will cut unnecessary spend\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002217f418bbdaa24828876cef6e5ce5d95c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217f418bbdaa24828876cef6e5ce5d95c\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s so disappointing to hear the usual old stuff: \u201CCut wages. Keep those minimum wages as low as we possibly can. Let\u2019s have a year of austerity.\u201D That is exactly the wrong thing to do. The Budget Policy Statement is called a policy statement because it sets a tone. It sets a signal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat has happened? What this shows us is the wisdom of our Minister of Finance, who through good times was having a steady hand on the tiller, saying, \u201CLet\u2019s not be hasty. Let\u2019s prepare. Let\u2019s be in a good position should things turn sour.\u201D And let\u2019s be honest, there are some risks facing New Zealand. COVID-19 is a significant risk, but New Zealand is well placed. It is probably better placed than any other nation in the world because of the responsible management of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd as for minimum wage, this is exactly the right time to stick to our plan. There is a plan. It\u2019s set out in the Budget Policy Statement and we will stick to it because it\u2019s a good plan. It\u2019s not one that\u2019s going to change simply because circumstances change around us. That\u2019s why it\u2019s a policy statement. The minimum wage increase will ensure that workers are not alarmed, can still spend money, will still stay in their jobs, will go down to their shops, will go out on local trips in the holidays, and will keep the economy turning over. And what\u2019s more, our health system\u2014thank goodness our healthcare system is in good shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis Government has invested and will continue to invest in our health system. Our nurses are being paid more. There are, in fact, now 1,699 more nurses than there were, 677 more doctors than there were, and more health workers ready to respond than have ever been in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve put $1.7 billion into a capital spending in our broken hospitals. Thank goodness we\u2019re going to have hospitals that are equipped for any eventuality that comes forward\u2014$1.9 billion into mental health. That\u2019s just as important. Look, we\u2019ve heard about the fear, the panic, the anxiety that\u2019s out there. We need to be prepared. This Government is prepared. The Minister of Finance has rightly identified the weaknesses in our economy, has set a path to address those weaknesses, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do. There is $2.9 billion into district health boards (DHBs), funding that has been desperately needed to make sure that our health workers and our DHBs are prepared for anything that may come their way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s more, the economy isn\u2019t going to come to a standstill. The $12 billion infrastructure programme will absolutely make sure that we have work, that our economy is moving, and not only that but that it\u2019s the right infrastructure, infrastructure not only into some roads but, really importantly, into rail, walking, cycling, but also into clean energy. These are all absolutely fantastic projects that are going to keep our economy going. We\u2019ve got an economy that\u2019s got full employment. We\u2019ve got an economy with low debt, one that\u2019s been running surpluses. But there are clouds on the horizon. Now is the time to absolutely use those resources, with the tax packages, with the Ministry of Social Development, but keep on course. It\u2019s not time to run away. It\u2019s not time to change the programme, because the very thing we were allowing for has come upon us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis Minister of Finance has prepared us well. This Budget Policy Statement sets out our plan and we are going to stick to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226d2f74b3602749e7950c26e53dc71680\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022559e36c2103a4c5286fe8c0c6e69a637\u0022\u003EElection Access Fund Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022145ff74422ec4e07ab37f8190985d202\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022553c6e6212c84a3e88f8f7bf235f97fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553c6e6212c84a3e88f8f7bf235f97fc\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Election Access Fund Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want everybody in this House to imagine for a second. Imagine that you can\u2019t hear me. I\u2019m sure that is something that many of my colleagues in this Chamber would invite and think that they\u2019d very much like, but, of course, I would like them to remove the humour from that proposition. Seriously, I ask my colleagues to imagine that they can\u2019t hear me, but that they can\u2019t hear not just me. Imagine that you can\u2019t hear the question time bells and you can\u2019t hear the conscience vote bells, which echoed across Parliament last night, well past midnight, calling us to work and to vote in the Chamber. Imagine that you can\u2019t hear points of order, questions nor the answers. Imagine that you can\u2019t hear the whispers of colleagues as whips dart across the House and negotiate the day\u2019s business and that you can\u2019t hear interjections and heckles, nor the laughs and the bellows that follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EImagine that you can\u2019t hear your co-workers in the office and the hallways, and you can\u2019t hear them in caucus, in cross-party groups, or in select committees. That hearing, that access, that enabling of basic equality, is something that every single one of us in this Chamber, who is currently elected to the House of Representatives, takes for granted. It is proof that this place was made, was designed, for the likes of us. But it\u2019s estimated that nearly 19 percent of New Zealanders experience a form of hearing loss. Thousands communicate via our official language\u2014New Zealand Sign Language, but zero percent of the House of Representatives are currently living that experience. We make the rules for those deaf and disabled New Zealanders, but we regularly do so without any knowledge of their experiences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThose experiences aren\u2019t just of deafness nor of disability. They are a breadth and a richness of human experiences, of lessons learnt, of jobs done, of advocacy advocated, of lives lived. There is no such pigeonhole nor neat and tidy box of deaf and disability issues. In fact, every single piece of policy, every single debate in Parliament, every single decision that is made impacts the homes, the environment, the country, and the worlds that all of us live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETokenism is someone without a certain experience asking those with that experience to comment on a perceivably niche, narrow something that the person without experience thinks is relevant to those with the experience. It\u2019s permission to provide feedback on a specified little area of things that the person without experience is comfortable letting those with the experience see and participate in. It is paternalistic and it is patronising. It is controlling. Representation is an equal platform. It is not telling someone what affects them but asking them and shutting up and hearing the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re doing today is actually pretty basic, but it\u2019s also hugely fundamental. We are removing the barriers that none of us in this place right now have had to wrangle with. That fact in and of itself is worthy of inspection. Who has been left behind and made invisible in the conversation because they didn\u2019t make it in here? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust today, I had my executive assistant, Tim Onnes, telling me of the difficulty of bringing people into this Parliament to witness this speech\u2014this third reading speech\u2014about accessibility, about democracy, and how difficult it was for those people to navigate through our Parliament and to engage in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat political candidates didn\u2019t make it in here because they couldn\u2019t afford the unique travel arrangements, the translators, the costly barriers that we didn\u2019t have to worry about? What New Zealanders didn\u2019t even make it to contemplating being a candidate because of concern and fear of the excessive bills and the fuss? Which citizens didn\u2019t even think of this as a possible place for them, and by them, because they couldn\u2019t see themselves in it? Today, we are unanimously fixing a glaring hole in our democracy. If you haven\u2019t seen, felt, or heard that vortex, it\u2019s because it doesn\u2019t affect you. But it just so happens, our official statistics belie that it affects the lives of around one in every four New Zealanders. Today, we are enabling the impartial and politically independent Electoral Commission to administer a fund to remove barriers faced by the deaf and disabled candidates in our general elections and our by-elections. Those are barriers that others do not face, barriers that not one of the 120 members in Parliament right now faced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThey are barriers that were faced by my friend the inspirational Mojo Mathers, the first Deaf member of Parliament here in Aotearoa New Zealand, who gives colour to the narrative that I have laid out this afternoon. It is not just a story, it is not myth; it is literally Mojo\u2019s life. She brought decades of mahi in environmental protection and water quality and animal rights to our Parliament, but she became a disability rights champion because, to be frank, she was just a champion. Thank you, Mojo, for unlocking the doors for those who will come after you. Your law will not just change lives; it will change the face of places like this, and I hope that it will improve inclusion and the thoughtfulness of our society as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also want to mention my mate Joe Boon, who was diagnosed in 2008 with something that I\u2019m probably not going to be able to pronounce, but I\u2019ll give it a shot: Friedreich\u2019s ataxia, which is a progressive genetic neurological condition. This election, he is running\u2014or wheeling, as I\u2019m sure his sardonic sense of humour would allow\u2014in Rangit\u012Bkei for the Greens. He is one of a number of deaf and disabled candidates who have stood for parties across this Chamber in the past, present, and, I am sure, the future. This bill gives those candidates\u2014those potential politicians, those New Zealanders\u2014an equal footing, because from the 2023 election, this law means that they no longer will have to shoulder costs that, again, none of us here did. That, quite frankly, is just a fair go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI really deeply want to thank politicians across this Parliament who I\u2019ve had the privilege to work with so constructively and so fully to bring this law to pass this afternoon. It is not every day that we get to pat ourselves on the back and say that we agreed on a vision for a better Aotearoa New Zealand and that we worked together to do it, but today is different. I know, having talked to many who have been involved in this conversation for so long, of the huge importance and symbolism that comes from all 120 members in this place being united in knocking down those barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI want to say thank you to the Governance and Administration Committee. I want to say thank you to my colleagues in Labour and the National Party and New Zealand First and ACT and to Jami-Lee Ross. I want to say thank you to everybody who has fought so long for this. It can only be the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI asked my friend Henrietta Bollinger, who helped substantially in developing my thinking coming to this legislation but who is also an impeccable artist and writer in her own right, what on earth I should say to celebrate the passage of this law today, which has taken two years and a whole lot of work. She just offered that it is important that deaf and disabled people are no longer invisible in this conversation. They have a whole lot more to offer than just their disability, but the richness of humanity and experience that all of us have, which exceeds and extends far beyond any of our most obvious caricature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI hope that I am done speaking on behalf of and instead of. Here is to a House of Representatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c329c44fa4ef4d048de429c7a7e40cc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c329c44fa4ef4d048de429c7a7e40cc9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. National is pleased to support this Election Access Fund Bill. That is a step in the right direction for including a wider range of people in this important institution that has responsibility for the lawmaking and the governance of our country. I want to compliment Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick and the way in which she has managed the legislative process around this bill, being a strong advocate for the rights of people with disabilities but also understanding the importance of electoral law and their conduct being in a fair way. I think it reflects well on this Parliament that there is sufficient confidence in the political neutrality of the New Zealand Electoral Commission to have responsibility for allocating these funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the advocacy of Mojo Mathers, in her work as a member of Parliament, in making us all more aware of the challenges for the deaf community in being able to participate in parliamentary processes. This bill just actually represents a number of other steps, including providing subtitles and other provisions in our select committees, that have helped make our Parliament more accessible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe core part of this bill enables the Electoral Commission to set up a fund that will enable candidates for central government elections, parliamentary elections, to be able to apply for the extra costs that they face as a consequence of their disability, and being able to be refunded for that. If there was a disappointment with the bill\u2014and we discussed it at select committee\u2014it was whether it could be included and extended to local government, because, actually, whether it be our deaf, whether it be our blind, whether it be people that have other physical disabilities, the ideal for us would have been to provide a fund that extended it further. We note that the Justice Committee inquiry into electoral law talks about better aligning our local and parliamentary electoral laws, and that is a future challenge from this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhenever it comes to issues of electoral law, National is of a view that you need to be very careful in the allocation of whether it be public broadcasting funds or others, that you do so in such a way that it doesn\u2019t try and screw the scrum politically one way or other. We are satisfied, through the pursuit of the detail of this bill, that we are genuinely providing a fund that will meet those reasonable costs without the risk of it being used by one political party at a disadvantage of others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI would have one more cautious view than the sponsor of this bill, in that money is just one of the disadvantages that we seek to address through this bill. Yes, whether it be the extra costs of travel, of accommodation, or of specialised and technical equipment that exist today that is able to assist people with disabilities, I don\u2019t think we as a Parliament should pretend that that removes all of the barriers. I actually think there is equally an attitudinal issue, both for electors, for this institution, for public servants in our society more generally, that we are improving in the way in which we deal with people with disabilities. This bill is a step in the right direction, but I do think we would be a little overstating it in accepting that providing a fund would remove all of those barriers. We still have other issues to resolve, and those attitudinal things is something that Parliament can lead, that Parliament can talk about, but is not something that can be simplistically fixed by a change of law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo, again, I compliment those that have been advocates for this bill. The Election Access Fund Bill is a bill that is going to improve the diversity of this Parliament. How this Parliament has changed over its 160-plus years in being more diverse in respect of the ethnicities that are represented here, the big change that has seen so many more women in this Parliament, and the hope that goes with this bill is that it will see the full range of people that have different disabilities also having a voice in this institution. I commend the member who has sponsored the bill, and particularly the law change. National looks forward to working with the Electoral Commission so that we can have more candidates for Parliament, and more members, that represent the diverse disabled community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u002289cee075938542f98564774476a13832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289cee075938542f98564774476a13832\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Ka noho au ki roto i Te Reo M\u0101ori. Ka t\u0101pae ake ahau i \u014Dku mihi ki T\u0101 R\u014Dpata kua riro atu ki te p\u014D ki roto i ng\u0101 h\u0101ora tata ake nei. Ka t\u0101pae ake ko ng\u0101 tangi m\u014Dteatea ki te kaihaut\u016B tawhito o Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki ki roto i ng\u0101 tau, Jeanette Fitzsimons. Ka t\u0101pae ake ko t\u014Dku tuahine, ko Ataria Heta kua riro atu ki roto i te wiki kua pahure ake nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EK\u0101ti, ka huri tuatua ahau ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa. Ka t\u016B au hei m\u0101ngai m\u014D Te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa ki runga i t\u0113nei kaupapa me te k\u012B atu, e tautoko m\u0101rika ana m\u0101tou o Te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. E tautoko ana m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei Pire n\u0101 runga i te m\u014Dhio ko te mea nui o Te K\u0101wanatanga, ko te mea nui o t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga, Te R\u014Dp\u016B Reipa, me Te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki, hei whakararata mai i te hunga hau\u0101, i te hunga turi, i w\u0113n\u0101 momo \u0101huatanga katoa kei t\u0113nei mahi ki roto i Te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EMehemea kei t\u0113nei Whare, mehemea kei roto i ng\u0101 t\u0101one me ng\u0101 w\u0101hi noho a te iwi, ko te manako nui kia whakararata mai i te hunga e ng\u0101kau nui ana ki ng\u0101 mahi torangap\u016B ki t\u0113nei mahi. Koin\u0101 t\u0101 m\u0101tou hei tautoko ake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EKa whakaaro ake ahau ki taku tamahine ki a Kainoa. He tamahine hau\u0101. E aro atu ana ia ki ng\u0101 mahi e tutuki nei e t\u014Dn\u0101 matua, ar\u0101, ko au e t\u016B nei, engari ki roto i ng\u0101 ture i a ia tonu nei, k\u012Bhai ia ka p\u0101 mai tana ringa ki ng\u0101 mahi torangap\u016B e mahia nei e t\u014Dn\u0101 matua n\u0101 runga i tana hau\u0101tanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, ka tautoko ahau i t\u0113nei pire. Ka tautoko ahau i t\u014Dku hoa mahi e kawea nei te pire ki runga i te manako nui o Mojo Mathers e noho mai nei ki runga. K\u0101ti e mihi atu nei ki a t\u0101tou. E tautoko ana m\u0101tou i te pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E[I will remain in the M\u0101ori language. I acknowledge T\u0101 R\u014Dpata who passed away in the past couple of hours. I am much saddened by the passing of Jeanette Fitzsimons, former leader of the Green Party for many years. I acknowledge my sister, Ataria Heta, who passed away in the week just gone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI turn to this particular issue. I stand as a spokesperson for the Labour Party on this issue and I say, we, of the Labour Party, enthusiastically support this bill. We support this bill because one of the main goals of Government, of this Labour-Greens Government, is to support the disabled community, the deaf community, and those types of groups to work here in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWhether in this House, in towns or in other communities, we strongly support those who have a desire to work in politics. We endorse that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI think about my niece Kainoa. She is disabled. She has taken a keen interest in her uncle\u2019s career, in my career, but the rules as they are now prevent her from entering politics because of her disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETherefore, I support this bill. I support my colleague who sponsors the bill on the wishes of Mojo Mathers who is sitting up there. In conclusion I greet everyone here. We support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00221e029ebbd46a48e4bfaf34971bc9edd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e029ebbd46a48e4bfaf34971bc9edd6\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. First of all, I thank the original author of the bill, the former MP Mojo Mathers. Also, I thank the sponsor of the bill, the MP Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, for her skilful work and her hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAs the chair of the Governance and Administration Committee, I\u2019m very pleased with the cooperative spirit that parties and members demonstrated in the process of considering this particular bill. I was thinking why we had this kind of cooperative spirit. I believe there were quite a few reasons. Firstly, of course, I thank the MP Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick for her skill and her genuine effort to consult these different parties. Secondly, I think this bill itself is quite well drafted\u2014limited in terms of scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe reasoning behind the bill is well accepted and easy to understand but, more importantly, I would say it is because all members, all parties, have a genuine intention to support\u2014to help\u2014disabled people. These people are a very important part of our society. They are very close to us. We can relate to them very easily. So for that reason, I believe all members, all parties, are ready to work together to support this very important part of our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, this constitutes a solid foundation for Government strategies and policies towards disabled people. Our support has become increasingly comprehensive. We\u2019ve given them support in terms of physical support, in terms of cultural or mental or financial support, but now we are moving even closer to what we call comprehensiveness, because we are trying to help them to participate in our general elections, to exercise their political rights, to facilitate them to exercise their political rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo for that reason, I believe this bill is a step in the right direction. As the Hon Nick Smith mentioned, this bill may not solve all problems, but it\u2019s a step in the right direction. Also, I would say the committee made some changes, and these changes are useful. For example, the committee proposed by-elections to be included in this particular bill, and to make sure that any successful application to the fund would not be counted as a donation and would be exempt from income tax. All these are important in terms of improving the bill. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd0c5751b5f7432fba705d36159efbd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd0c5751b5f7432fba705d36159efbd7\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real privilege to be in the House to talk to this bill. Can I acknowledge Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick in particular and just the doggedness and the hard work to get this to where it is today. I think that takes real courage, but it comes easy for her, because she really took it all the way through, step by step. I was really proud that she took a piece of work that one of her colleagues Mojo Mathers had started. Many others had thought about it, but she\u2019s actually the one that\u2019s got it to the finish line. So more than a pat on the back for that, because this ultimately is about democracy and allowing all New Zealanders in Aotearoa New Zealand to have the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI think back to my own father, who had political aspirations. He was a Methodist minister for just under 50 years, so everything was political in our home. But his hearing went, his health went, and so he never quite got across the bar. He said to me, \u201CI don\u2019t know whether people like me are match-fit for that place.\u201D I hope I\u2019m fulfilling some of his legacy, but, more importantly, for all those Kiwis who now have the opportunity to do and get the information and just get the tools\u2014I think that was the one word that I saw in there\u2014to make their opportunity to get into this place happen. We\u2019ll add local government a bit later. That\u2019s important, and I see some city councillors up there\u2014Teri O\u2019Neill\u2014so, fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022663c6c5f6bb54fa88dbef678cb5de1b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022663c6c5f6bb54fa88dbef678cb5de1b7\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just before I address the bill, could I add my words of condolence to the families and friends of both Jeanette Fitzsimons and Sir Rob Fenwick, two very dedicated conservationists, environmentalists, and very fine New Zealanders. I know all members of this House share a great sense of loss at the passing of two very highly respected people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI thoroughly enjoyed Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s speech, and I don\u2019t always say that when I listen to her speaking. I\u2019m sure it would be utterly churlish for me to say that I took some pleasure at her invitation to imagine a world in which we couldn\u2019t hear her at all. I want to assure her that sometimes I do look forward to hearing her again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EToday, of course, there have been some very sensible and sensitive contributions from across the House in this particular debate, so I don\u2019t think I need to add much more. I would simply like to endorse the comments that have been made. I do have a very strong personal commitment to supporting disabled New Zealanders to be able to gain access to representation both at the local government level and in the Parliament. I have done everything I can in recent years to support some disabled candidates in my city of Hamilton to achieve representation or election, rather, to our local authorities. I\u2019ll continue to do so until they are successful, because I really believe that that will strengthen the quality of our democracy and ensure that they and those who share disabilities have genuine representation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EEqually, I want to see that happen in this Parliament. I look forward to the day when we see wheelchairs here, not just because somebody is showing sensitivity to a paralysed New Zealander but because a paralysed New Zealander has earned the right to be a representative in this Parliament. That goes across a whole gamut of disabilities. It is the next development in the evolution that Dr Nick Smith spoke about before, so I hope it will happen in my time. We should all work towards that goal, and this bill will help in a small way. I have great pleasure, therefore, in adding my support to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u002245bf845548f44764b26f8e32da225f1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245bf845548f44764b26f8e32da225f1b\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. My contribution is going to be short. It\u2019s not going to be short because I don\u2019t care. It\u2019s going to be short because, actually, we need to release those in the gallery at 6 o\u2019clock so that they can celebrate this moment with Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI want to say two things, though, before I sit down. The first thing is that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick has shown, through her actions around this piece of legislation, through the changes made, through the collegial way that she has worked with those from different political poles, how to bring members together and how to work together constructively\u2014and, even, at times, to compromise, because that\u2019s how the world works\u2014to make sure that the goal to improve the world has been achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI particularly want to ask the Young Greens and other young political parties to recognise what Chl\u00F6e has done and to acknowledge that it\u2019s hard work but you have to keep doing it because in the real world, you\u2019ve got to play with others. So I want to acknowledge Chl\u00F6e and her persistence, but her true maturity around the way that she has worked this through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to do is I want to acknowledge Mojo Mathers in the gallery. I want to say that I remember when Mojo came, and I remember the fight she had to put up to find the resources to actually do her job, the job she had been elected to do. I remember New Zealand First, when it came to our caucus, saying, \u201CWe\u2019ll take a cut in our party budget if everybody else does too, to make sure that Mojo has the technology that she needs.\u201D The Speaker at the time managed to find the cash at the end of the day, so we were all good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EBut now I say to the parliamentary precinct, you need to prepare for the inevitable. It cannot be that now that we pass this piece of legislation, the next person who is differently abled has to come into this House and fight, the way that Mojo had to. So let\u2019s prepare the precinct for the multitude of diversity that we have among our population so, again, this House can say that it is a House of Representatives. We endorse the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225c66c6bb5ff040be8de2641d96cdf1f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c66c6bb5ff040be8de2641d96cdf1f4\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in support of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s Election Access Fund Bill. I\u2019d like to congratulate Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2014not a bad effort for an MP to get a member\u2019s bill through in their rookie term in Parliament, and for a very noble cause. I should thank my colleagues in the National Party for letting me speak on this. I didn\u2019t have a call in this debate but I wanted to speak on it because I think it\u2019s an important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI believe that it is important that we have equal opportunity in circumstances where we\u2019re disadvantaged for reasons beyond our control. And it\u2019s not because members of my family have lived and live with disability; it\u2019s a belief in the role of Government\u2014that when we are faced with risks and faced with situations or disadvantages that we have no way of controlling whatsoever, and there\u2019s no way to privately insure against them, that\u2019s actually an area where the Government should provide support. In the case of disability, that is an area where I actually think the Government doesn\u2019t do enough and should be providing more acute support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI had the experience in the End of Life Choice Bill debate of funding some people with disabilities to come to Wellington and campaign for the bill, and the costs involved were absolutely eye-opening and, frankly, eye-watering for somebody in a wheelchair with their carer to come and engage in our politics. As Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick said in her opening speech, no doubt many people in that circumstance who either couldn\u2019t afford it or didn\u2019t have benefactors who were prepared to support them simply wouldn\u2019t see representation in Parliament as an option, and I think that\u2019s wrong. I think that\u2019s one area where the State should be an insurer of last resort, so I\u2019m supporting this bill, first and foremost, because it is good public policy, but, secondly, because it is something that makes us a more inclusive, humane, and compassionate society to put on our statute book that we as a society are committed to helping people participate in our democracy if they have additional challenges that are experienced as absolutely no fault of their own, then that\u2019s when there\u2019s a role for us to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo well done Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I commend this bill to the House on behalf of ACT. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00229ccd06c408ed4fc2b411f0aff95d3e66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ccd06c408ed4fc2b411f0aff95d3e66\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call\u2019s a split call\u2014Jamie Strange.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u002229061f01b3b14d17ba4d756a808cec5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229061f01b3b14d17ba4d756a808cec5c\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a brief contribution on the Election Access Fund Bill. We hear a lot about a representative Parliament\u2014a Parliament that represents all of New Zealand. Tonight we\u2019re seeing some action around that, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick for taking a stand and also Mojo Mathers before her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI was privileged to be part of the Governance and Administration Committee for a brief period of time when Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick was working on this bill. Look, she\u2019s certainly done a great job bringing this to the Parliament, and I\u2019m excited to speak on the third reading. This is a victory for democracy and it\u2019s a victory for inclusion in New Zealand. We\u2019ve sort of heard a lot of the content of the bill from various speakers, so I\u2019ll probably finish my contribution there. But I\u2019d just like to reiterate: we hear a lot of talk, but tonight we\u2019ve seen practical action, and it\u2019s really encouraging to see that, so well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8f4054502bc4463a0cbaa4557f9d0e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8f4054502bc4463a0cbaa4557f9d0e9\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a short call on the Election Access Fund Bill in its third reading. I too just want to acknowledge the sponsor of the bill, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick. We see eye to eye on so many issues, in particular this issue. I also want to acknowledge former Green Party MP Mojo Mathers, who was instrumental in putting forward this issue which this Parliament is now unanimously supporting. I\u2019m really proud to be a member of Parliament on days like today when we do unanimously support pieces of legislation which make a practical impact on people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOne of the really interesting things about this bill is it\u2019s not just about people who are standing as candidates to be members of this Parliament but actually people who are putting their names forward to be candidates in the party processes or candidate selection processes. We\u2019ve all had to go through those processes as candidates to be selected by our respective parties, and we all know how difficult those processes can be, and the fact that this bill will also support those with disabilities to be able to access this fund and to be able to put their name forward to represent their party and then their community is something which I\u2019m particularly proud of. So I commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002285f975bfe40344f8a4ec5ffd002e364e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285f975bfe40344f8a4ec5ffd002e364e\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It is great to see this bill reach its third reading in the House today. I\u2019ve watched this as a select committee member on the Governance and Administration Committee and watched the good work that was done by the subgroup that was formed to nut out the policy detail of what shape this bill would take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to, first and foremost, acknowledge Mojo Mathers for bringing this bill and the shape and also for Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick for her continued advocacy for those in the community that cannot always have the same voice and impact as they probably should do. I guess my point in my speech tonight is that while it\u2019s great to see a bill that provides further access for people who deserve it and need it and don\u2019t always have it, it is a shame that that always takes such a big fight. I\u2019ll look forward to the day when we have equality in New Zealand and not every step of the way has to be such a struggle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI was, I guess, educated on this by a local member of the Hutt community by the name of Mike Grigg who is, sadly, no longer with us. He was a very strong, vocal advocate for the rights of people in the disability community and he was a constant battler to any local member of Parliament or council member that would listen. It is through his continued advocacy and talking with him that I learnt how difficult it can be for people to get what they deserve and have that equal representation with those around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo we support the Election Access Fund Bill because of the fact that it facilitates participation of people with disabilities in general elections, and that is only right and fair. It enables disabled people to be given appropriate tools and the ability to be able to compete on an even ground\u2014to run as a candidate, to attend an election event, and to participate as a party member. It is estimated that it is around 9 percent of the population of New Zealand who have some form of hearing loss alone as one area, and it is only right that there should be an ability to engage in debates and communication and have those abilities for the members of our democracy to share and understand what those ideas are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Government is working hard to build a more inclusive New Zealand, but we have a lot more to do. We want to be a country that creates opportunities for people with disabilities and that is why I am supporting the bill and why this Government supports this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Election Access Fund Bill was originally sponsored by Mojo Mathers, and it was back in 2011, I understand, that she became New Zealand\u2019s first Deaf MP. In some ways, while this bill, I\u2019ve said, is a good thing, it is a bit sad in some ways that it\u2019s taken us to 2020 to reach making steps like this, just to enable people to be able to fairly engage and be part of an election process. I\u2019m really looking forward to seeing this bill form part of how we will continue to have elections in the future and to see what differences it brings, what types of candidates we see, and the ideas that they bring into New Zealand. I think we can only be a stronger and more robust democracy with the more voices that contribute to that debate, and I am proud to see a bill that further enables that action to take place. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022f61f10fdc97d4c8ea7d19ccc036b74e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f61f10fdc97d4c8ea7d19ccc036b74e8\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak to the Election Access Fund Bill, and I want to first of all acknowledge and congratulate Mojo Mathers, who\u2019s sitting behind me, I understand, in the gallery, because it took a lot of courage. I remember the debates and the news articles at the time, and the cost and all the things that were incurred, which was really difficult. But as we stand here tonight, across this Parliament there is universal agreement that this is the thing to do. I wholeheartedly support it, and I wish to thank Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick for what she has done, and for the maturity, sometimes I would say, beyond her years of getting everybody together\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224381b8d2d73f43a89df2b1aea76a63dc\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, \u201CDad\u201D! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ad969cf74d4847a0b6dc4e39f934ee\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you know\u2014to get everybody in the room to agree, and I\u2019ve watched her come into the meetings and get agreement. I think this place would be by far the better place if we had as broad a section of society as we could, including good and participatory representation from the disabled community. Anything we do to go towards that, I think is very worthwhile. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI also would be very supportive in the future of taking this into the local government realm, because I think that is the next stage. We couldn\u2019t do it this time, but it should be done in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThis is a complete no-brainer. It\u2019s taken a lot of work to get here, but I am happy to commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022559e9508d62e4a42b71ca2278d4b72f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022559e9508d62e4a42b71ca2278d4b72f8\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s my absolute delight to be the final person in this House tonight to stand as we pass through the third reading of the Election Access Fund Bill, because when we have a House that is truly representative\u2014when disabled people can participate fully in the electoral processes that we all should be able to participate in\u2014it means that Governments are better held to account, it means that we can make better law, and it means that we can make law that actually reflects the realities of people who are of disabled communities. It means that we can build a vibrant, inclusive democracy, if everyone is able to actively and equally engage in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI\u2019m so proud tonight of my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick and the deserved attention and accolades that have come from across the House for the way that she has nurtured and carried this piece of good law to us here tonight. I\u2019m profoundly proud of my colleague, ex-Green MP Mojo Mathers, the first Deaf politician for New Zealand, and all of the NGOs and advocacy that has come from years and years of hard work and pressure being kept on this place. I think, for example, of my friend Kim Robertson, chairperson of Deaf Action New Zealand, who is consistently asking us where are our interpreter services for public announcements and for question time in the House, and I hope we can see this legislation tonight as a step to move towards the rest of the things that we have to clean up, especially here in Government and here in Parliament, where we can lead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI wanted to note that the Disabled Persons Assembly strongly recommended that this fund was not going to be restricted and limited to be diagnosis-specific. I am pleased to say that the Government and Administration Committee worked hard to ensure that it is a wide, contestable fund so that we don\u2019t need to be guided by restricted definitions and can merely focus on what is needed. It is also accessible to non-profit organisations and political parties to start to make sure that we have a wide, round focus on ensuring equal access to these electoral processes, not just from a parliamentary perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThis bill affirms that New Zealanders want a fair electoral process. The reason why it has taken so long is not because of nasty intent but because when you do not have people with lived experience, the default is we are going to be coming from a perspective that we are used to, and when you do not have people with lived experience of the barriers to this world which are disabling, it means that we are less capable of making law that realises what those barriers are, understands what is needed to shift those barriers out of the way, and understands that at every step of our world at the moment there are far too many assumptions that are made that we are all the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m pleased that this bill, while not the final answer, is an impressive and important step for us to reflect as a country, and, indeed, as a world, to say that this is what needs to happen in every sphere of our public and political life\u2014that we need to make sure that there is equal ability for everyone to participate in what is so-called public life. So I am proud. Congratulations, Mojo; congratulations, disabled community; congratulations, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick; and congratulations, all of us for this work here tonight. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022750aaf03764347eab99c56540dbc021d\u0022\u003EAuckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f77616d44204d28aa281b2a5d459b33\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c536fa7f860d48029df60868056e01eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c536fa7f860d48029df60868056e01eb\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a real privilege to take this call to highly commend this bill that I am the sponsor of, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. I would like to start by thanking the Government and Administration Committee for their input. I want to especially acknowledge the chair, Dr Jian Yang, and the deputy chair, Ginny Andersen, and, of course, I want to thank all of the members on the committee as well for working in such a collaborative manner on this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI also want to thank all the advisers and I want to thank all submitters. We received 14 submissions during the select committee process, and we had the opportunity to hear from one submitter here in Wellington. I would say that that one submitter covered the whole bill really well\u2014the background and the need for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe did make some changes to this legislation in the select committee process, and those changes can be grouped under two main headings. I will talk about them, but before that, I want to say that I had the opportunity to sub on to the select committee as and when this bill was on the select committee\u2019s agenda. So I\u2019ve been through this whole process, even on the select committee, and I have been in touch with one of the Auckland regional amenities to ensure that we were able to deliver what the objective of this legislation has been. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThis bill is to see that the financial reporting standard in the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008\u2014the principal Act\u2014aligns with the financial reporting standard that is there in the Charities Act 2005. So, according to the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008, the specified amenities are required to prepare financial statements in accordance with New Zealand\u2019s equivalent to International Financial Reporting Standards. According to the Charities Act 2005, they are required to prepare their financial statements as per generally accepted accounting practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ENow, the important point to note here is that the New Zealand equivalent to International Financial Reporting Standards are part of generally accepted accounting practice, but that is mainly for entities that are for profit, not for entities that are not-for-profit, and these Auckland regional amenities are registered as charities under the Charities Act 2005. These entities are not-for-profit, and so the standard which is required as per the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008 should not apply to them, but at the moment they have to in order to comply and prepare their financial statements as per this New Zealand equivalent to International Financial Reporting Standards as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo it is, basically, just doubling up their work, and I would say that this should have been fixed when section 42A of the Charities Act 2005 commenced in 2015. But, at that time, that got overlooked, and that\u2019s why these amenities have this issue of non-compliance because they are complying with the Charities Act 2005, because if they don\u2019t comply with the Charities Act 2005 reporting standards, they will lose their charitable status. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe have these amenities. They are really active and are really important to our Auckland community. These amenities are the Auckland Philharmonia, New Zealand Opera Ltd, Auckland Theatre Co., the Auckland Festival Trust, Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust\u2014which is based in Mount Roskill at the moment\u2014Coast Guard Northern Region, Surf Life Saving Northern Region, Auckland Regional Rescue Helicopter Trust, and WaterSafe Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI said that the Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust is based in Mount Roskill at the moment, where I\u2019m based. That is because, as we know, we are undergoing boundary changes, and it is quite possible that this amenity may not remain in Mount Roskill. It is not that the amenity is moving out, but the boundary might change, and so this might mean that this amenity will go into another electorate. But that doesn\u2019t matter to me, because this is about helping these amenities that are there in Auckland, and it\u2019s a real privilege to have the opportunity to support this amenity and other amenities\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa7d4fafe3445b9b2ada10d85779543\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for the House to adjourn for the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e64bf85e4f4137bb6bf737ecf34573\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR\u003C/span\u003E: Before the dinner break, I was saying that one of the Auckland regional amenities that is currently located in Mount Roskill may actually become part of another electorate as we are undergoing boundary changes. But that doesn\u2019t matter, as I was saying, because this is about supporting these amenities, not just one amenity but all Auckland regional amenities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI also explained why this bill was needed, why the alignment of financial reporting standards in the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008 was important to be aligned with the Charities Act 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo now I would like to focus on changes that are proposed by the select committee. In the select committee, as I said before the dinner break, the changes that were made can be grouped under two headings. The first one is around the clarity of the commencement date, because as the bill was proposed there was no clarity around transitional provisions. In the select committee process we thought it was important for us to provide that clarity. So we propose adding a clause, clause 4A, which provides the clarity around the commencement of this change that is proposed through this legislation. This would apply for a financial year that was in progress or recently completed, and that makes full sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe second change that was made in the select committee process is actually a very important one, a change that is really important to all these Auckland regional amenities, and that change is about retrospective validation. I\u2019m mindful, and all members on the select committee were mindful, that it\u2019s not a common practice for us in Parliament to make any changes that have a retrospective validation, especially where there is some non-compliance. But in this case, it\u2019s a very different case because this is a minor, a technical, change that we are making to benefit all these Auckland regional amenities. This non-compliance is not harming any other entity or third party. I have already talked about this before the dinner break\u2014that the standard that is required as per the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008 doesn\u2019t apply anyway to these Auckland regional amenities because they are registered as charities under the Charities Act 2005. So this is actually something that we should have fixed when section 42A of the Charities Act 2005 commenced, but it got overlooked. That\u2019s why the Auckland regional amenities are required to prepare their financial statements as per these two different standards that are prescribed in these two different pieces of legislation. But they have been complying with the Charities Act 2005, and they have been preparing their financial statements in accordance with public benefit entity standards. So this is something that we must note: that they have been complying with one of these two standards, and they have been complying with the Charities Act 2005.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo the retrospective validation that we have allowed in this legislation, in this bill, in the select committee process, is only for amenities that are non-compliant with the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008 as long as they are complying with the Charities Act 2005. So if they are complying with the Charities Act 2005 then we say that retrospective validation will apply. This makes full sense, again, because these amenities don\u2019t want to have any non-compliance in their record. We want to help them because this is actually something that Parliament overlooked when that change was made in the Charities Act 2005. This retrospective validation will apply from that time; that was 2015, so the 2014-15 financial year we are talking about. As I said before, if they are complying with the Charities Act 2005 then only this retrospective validation will apply to these Auckland regional amenities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo, going forward, I really hope that all sides in the House will support this legislation because this will save a lot of work for these Auckland regional amenities that is not adding value to anyone and, actually, is just duplicating the work that they have to do to prepare financial statements as per these two different standards under these two different pieces of legislation. So I highly commend this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022da82067b84914115b8dc674ada89a618\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da82067b84914115b8dc674ada89a618\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to be able to speak on the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. It is an important bill. As someone who\u2019s a constituency MP in Auckland, and he\u2019s had a little bit to do with the local government scene in Auckland over a number of years, I have an awareness of just how important these institutions are and the governance and legislative arrangements within which they work as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased as well to be able to speak on the bill because one of the amenities that is covered by the provisions of the bill that is what we colloquially call the Stardome, but officially is the Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust Board, sits within my electorate. It is within Cornwall Park, on the eastern edge of my electorate. It\u2019s an extremely popular and well-used amenity, and it\u2019s covered by this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got to say, one of the best experiences of my life ever, was going along to the Stardome with my wife, having a couple of glasses of red wine, and they put on this marvellous show where they play the two best rock albums of all time, which are by Pink Floyd, of course: The Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here. Then you sit back and the ceiling of the Stardome is just sort of a psychedelic array of lights, colours, and all sorts of things. It\u2019s a legal buzz, I\u2019d have to say. I\u2019d encourage anyone who\u2019s in Auckland looking for a good night out to go and do that. So I\u2019ve got a strong connection to at least one of the amenities that\u2019s covered by this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do want to talk a little bit about some of the background to this, because it is important, I think, to actually understand why it is that we have this piece of legislation that sort of coagulates this big range of cultural and other institutions in Auckland, and, therefore, why we need to ensure that we\u2019ve got the accounting treatment right, as per this private bill, which is amending a principal Act from 2008. That piece of legislation that it\u2019s amending is the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008. It was brought through this House by the Hon Judith Tizard at that time, who was the Minister for Auckland Issues as well as a range of other portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI remember from my time in local government during that period of the 2000s, there was an absolute mishmash of funding arrangements for all of these different institutions, and they include\u2014I\u2019ve got the list here\u2014the Stardome; the Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust Board; the Auckland Philharmonia orchestra; Auckland Regional Rescue Helicopter Trust, which is extremely important; the Auckland Theatre Co.; Coast Guard Northern Region; the National Maritime Museum Trust Board\u2014the maritime museum down at the Viaduct Basin; New Zealand Opera Ltd; Surf Life Saving Northern Region Inc.; the Auckland Festival Trust; and WaterSafe Auckland Inc., which does extremely important work in terms of water safety, especially with our kids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ENow, all of these different institutions had different funding arrangements. As it transpired, most of them were based in the old Auckland City Council area, which is in the middle of Auckland. Now we have one local government authority for all of Auckland; back then we had seven. The issue that arose was that, effectively, the whole region benefited from the services provided by all of these institutions, but because they were physically based in Auckland City, the other six territorial local authorities generally didn\u2019t contribute to them at all. This created an unfairness but also funding problems for these institutions. So the solution was to develop a piece of legislation which set up a clear, transparent, and equitable funding stream for them all. Initially, it had a formula-based funding system where each of the territorial local authorities from that region basically paid into a common pool, which then funded these institutions. Then, with the Auckland Council amalgamation in 2010, the arrangement has become somewhat simpler. The Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board, which is the subject of this piece of legislation, now levies Auckland Council on an annual basis, brings in that money, and then distributes it out across these different organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe problem that has arisen, which this bill rightly attempts to correct, is that when the Charities Act was passed in 2005, it provided that charitable institutions should be reporting in accordance with the generally accepted accounting practice, otherwise known as GAAP, rather than the International Financial Reporting Standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll talk in a bit more detail about these; it\u2019ll really light up your night a bit later on. But that was the provision that was set down by the Charities Act 2005, so we\u2019re talking about 15 years ago now. All of these institutions, by their nature, have that charitable purpose. They\u2019re not-for-profit, private organisations. They\u2019re not actually publicly owned council institutions either, even though their funding, effectively, comes from a public source\u2014the Auckland councillors levy\u2014they\u2019re, effectively, all charitable institutions and often also have additional funding coming in from the various ways that charities raise money to support themselves as well: public appeals and the like. So those institutions, under the Charities Act, are supposed to be reporting along the GAAP lines, and that\u2019s well accepted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe problem is that the legislation has pointed them in a different direction, and that puts them in a very difficult position in that the way in which they\u2019re reporting probably isn\u2019t in alignment with the core piece of legislation that they\u2019re required to adhere to. In fact, what we\u2019ve learnt through the course of this issue is that, in fact, for about the last five years these institutions have not been reporting in the correct way. I don\u2019t think the purpose\u2014I know, in fact, the purpose of the member or anyone involved is not to criticise those institutions for that or put them in the gun or anything at all; it\u2019s actually to try and deal with that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut it does, I think, bring to light a bit of an issue that the House needs to think about with this piece of legislation, but also in the future: how do we make sure that when we bring legislation to this House that has an impact on organisations out there in the community, we\u2019re not having significant oversights like this creep into our legislation again? Because here we have some extremely important institutions in Auckland, our largest city\u2014very, very venerable and important organisations\u2014who have actually been filing their accounts in a way that isn\u2019t in accordance with the legislation that oversees them. That really was through a set of oversights through the legislative process. So I think there\u2019s a bit of reflection there for the House and our processes, to make sure that that is something that doesn\u2019t arise again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s worthwhile talking a little bit about the two key changes that the Governance and Administration Committee has identified in its report back. The first\u2014and I\u2019m not sure whether this was an oversight in the original bill or whether it was just something that needed to be worked out with a bit more information\u2014was setting in place a commencement date for this piece of legislation, which, as I understand it, will be the day after it receives Royal assent. That seems to be perfectly sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThe second point is a more interesting one, and that is the issue of retrospective validation. It was raised by the member Parmjeet Parmar in her speech. This is a very unusual procedure in that we\u2019re, effectively, saying that these organisations which for the previous five years were not acting in accordance with the Charities Act and the reporting requirements there, for that period their actions will be validated. Now, that\u2019s not something that I think we should ever do in the House lightly or without questioning or looking into; I think there is a well-established principle that pretty much every member in this House would adhere to that we reserve retrospective legislation only for situations that are highly justifiable\u2014there should be quite a high bar for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EParliaments have a lot of power. They have the power to force people to do things. We have the power to force people to give money to the Government. If you start establishing a precedent that Parliaments can go back in time and make rules up that people didn\u2019t know about at the time, that\u2019s not generally a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo I think one of the things that will be really useful to do in the committee of the whole House stage of this debate, assuming that the bill passes through the second reading, is just to make sure through that process that the House is really comfortable and that we\u2019re doing the right thing there. I\u2019m not necessarily casting doubt on that. It seems to me that in the select committee\u2019s report back, they\u2019ve identified that, effectively, what has been validated is something that does no harm, something that wasn\u2019t done with any malice or intent or ability to gain anything that these institutions would have otherwise not had, and that it\u2019s justifiable because there was also, effectively, an oversight in legislation. None the less, I think it is the duty of the House to look into that very closely as this bill progresses, to make sure that we are satisfied that this relatively extraordinary step of going back and validating in a retrospective way is something that we are properly comfortable with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is a bill which, I think, has pretty wide support across the House. As an Aucklander, and someone who knows that these institutions are really important, I want to make sure that this legislation does go through in the appropriate way and supports them in the activities that they do on behalf of the people of Auckland. I do look forward to examining some of those issues in the committee of the whole House stage of the debate. But for now, I very happily commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u00229f4cf78a939e4e73b626e75d9cf592b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f4cf78a939e4e73b626e75d9cf592b2\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak reasonably briefly on the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. First of all, I thank the sponsor of the bill, that\u2019s Parmjeet Parmar, and she has been working very hard and I\u2019m very pleased for you to introduce the bill to the committee. The Governance and Administration Committee welcomed the bill and we worked collaboratively on this particular bill to make the bill even better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, basically, the bill would replace a requirement for specific amenities\u2014we have a list of amenities there\u2014to prepare financial statements in accordance with New Zealand equivalents to International Financial Reporting Standards, we call it NZ IFRS, with a requirement to prepare in accordance with generally accepted accounting practice\u2014that\u2019s GAAP. Now, this means that the bill corrects an anomaly in the financial reporting requirements that apply to specific amenities. I emphasise that this is for specific amenities because we are limiting the bill to a certain list, a list of amenities in Auckland\u2014and that is very important to note. So this bill would allow the specified amenities to prepare a single set of financial statements instead of two; now we have two because of the problem of what we call the legislative overlook from 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo let me come to the particular development of this anomaly. What happened, really, is, actually, in 2015, the Charities Act 2005 was amended; it was amended to require that certain\u2014certain\u2014charitable entities prepare financial statements in accordance with GAAP. So to be consistent, some other legislation work was done so some other Acts were amended. However, the principal Act was not amended. So that caused a problem. That means the requirement under the Charities Act to prepare financial statements in accordance with GAAP is in addition to any other reporting requirements under any other enactment. So this is the problem. For that reason, we believe that now we should correct that particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThese specific amenities were required because of an overlook\u2014basically, they had to do double financial statements. But, in reality, they didn\u2019t. So, technically, they have breached the particular Act because they didn\u2019t do two financial statements. So this particular bill will address that particular issue. For that reason, when the select committee was considering the bill, we made an amendment. Basically, this amendment relates to retrospective validation\u2014previous speakers mentioned all these amendments. So this is very important because otherwise these amenities technically broke the law, so we need to make sure that we address what happened in the past. It\u2019s unusual, but we believe it is necessary. We believe that this breach is minor, so we should be able to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAnother amendment, of course, Parmjeet Parmar also mentioned is the commencement date. We believe that we need to somehow specify the particular commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EI believe this bill is a minor bill but very useful. It is useful because\u2014we are supporting this particular bill because we support communities. In Auckland these amenities play a quite important role in our life. So, for example, the Auckland Philharmonia orchestra\u2014each year more than 250,000 hear the orchestra live. So it\u2019s a large number of people. And then many people would, of course, listen to CDs and watch TV\u2014all these. So it\u2019s very important we support amenities like this. And then you have New Zealand Opera and you have some others like the Auckland Arts Festival, that\u2019s very important for ethnic minorities. And you have the Auckland Stardome observatory. I remember that I took my kids to the observatory. So all these amenities play a very important role in your life and therefore the bill is minor but is very useful. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d35d24959f1d4ea680b84df28b75afa6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d35d24959f1d4ea680b84df28b75afa6\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on this interesting bill. It is a technical bill, a tiny bill, a teensy bill. However, is not a trifling bill or a trivial bill and even though it deals with accounting standards, it\u2019s not even a tedious bill. It\u2019s a trimming bill, a tidying bill, a bill that sets matters to rights. And, as has been said across the House, it is a bill that we should all support and, indeed, I think we are all supporting this evening. As this bill has gone through an absolutely standard process of going to a select committee and of hearing submissions from entities that are concerned with the particular bill, I just want to report back on some of those particular submissions that came in from the entities that are concerned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Auckland Theatre Co. said that they support the intent of the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment (ARAFA) Bill and that they\u2019ve reviewed the submission of the Amenities Board and they support that particular submission. The coastguard said that they have reviewed the ARAFA Bill and that they support the bill and that they support the submission put in by the Amenities Board. Drowning Prevention Auckland says that they support the bill, the ARAFA Bill, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. They support the intent of the bill. They have reviewed the submission of the Amenities Board and they support the Amenities Board submission. There is a theme here. New Zealand Opera likewise says that they have reviewed the bill, that they have reviewed the submission from the Amenities Board, and they support that submission. This will get to a point in a moment. Surf Life Saving Northern Region\u2014exactly the same submission: they support the intent of the ARAFA Bill and they support and adopt the submission of the Amenities Board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMr Assistant Speaker, as I am sure has been your experience and the experience of many of our colleagues across the House, often when there are identical submissions coming in to a select committee, we become a little wary of them. We wonder who is running a campaign; if there is a particular purpose. Sometimes because the submissions are all identical, we count them up but we place perhaps less weight on them individually just because they are clearly all identical. But I submit that this is, in fact, an exception to this particular case and that even though all these submissions are virtually identical, they are pointing to something very important: that there is, in fact, solid agreement from the entities that are affected by this bill that the bill is a good bill and it should be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo carrying on from there, the arts festival\u2014the same submission supporting the intent of the bill, supporting the Amenities Board submission. The same from Mr Michael Woods\u2019 favourite psychedelic place to go: the Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust Board supporting the bill, supporting the intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere were, however, two exceptions, two submissions that were exceptions to this virtually\u2014and this why I have to say the word \u201Cvirtually\u201D\u2014unanimous support for the Amenities Board submission. One, which I do want to read out, but I won\u2019t read out the submitter\u2019s name because perhaps it\u2019s a point and we should listen to it, says, \u201CPersonally, I think the government spends way too much money. Too much money on Auckland, too much money on tourism, too much money on traveling and too much money on trying to fix things that weren\u2019t broken! \u2026 Stop increasing taxes and give money back to the people you stole it from; kiwis. And if you want to spend millions on something unnecessary, then take it out of your personal bank accounts!\u201D Well, what an interesting submission. We do from time to time get submissions where it\u2019s clear that people have sat down with their mates late at night, had a bit of a yarn, and found something to do and put in a submission. Perhaps that was one of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ERather more seriously, Julia Durkin submitted on this particular bill, and she is a professional senior cultural producer and the longest-serving female festival director of an Auckland regional arts, cultural, and community organisation. She says that actually there needs to be a \u201Cbroader investigation of the overall purpose of the [2008] Act itself.\u201D In fact, she doesn\u2019t really submit on the bill itself but she does point to a need for some kind of review needed for that Amenities Board, so perhaps that is something that could be considered at some stage in the future by people in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo coming to the Amenities Board submission\u2014and that, of course, is the point of all of this\u2014the Amenities Board clearly supports the intent of the bill, and it explains very carefully why it is important. It is straightforwardly because the Act as it was written, and along with the development of accounting standards alongside it, has imposed an extra compliance burden on the entities that are affected by the bill. Now, these entities are all charitable organisations; like many charitable organisations they are comparatively small in scale. And so it is important to try to reduce the compliance burden where possible with respect to that. So that is a good reason to support the bill. So as I\u2019ve said, a lot of unanimous support for the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI do want to speak, as a former accountant, just a little bit about the difference between generally accepted accounting practice (GAAP) and IFRS for us. So that\u2019s G-A-A-P\u2014GAAP, as it\u2019s normally referred to\u2014and IFRS, the International Financial Reporting Standards. Perhaps this will be the tedious bit of the evening, but I promise you that to accountants it\u2019s very, very exciting. GAAP are the common set of accepted accounting principles, standards, and procedures that companies and accountants must follow when they compile their financial statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting things about having been trained in accountancy is having developed that understanding as a set of shared ideas as to how transactions ought to be reported, how accounts ought to be prepared, so much so that for me, when I\u2019m trying to understand a particular way or the particular economic impact of a transaction, one of the easiest ways for me to do it is to write out a journal entry, because I understand it through that accounting framework. Having done that, I can grasp the substance of what is going on, and, of course, that\u2019s what generally accepted accounting principles are trying to do. They\u2019re trying to develop a set of rules that enable people who read financial statements to get a grasp of what is going on, whereas IFRS, the International Financial Reporting Standards, they\u2019re an international set of standards and they talk about how particular types of transactions should be recorded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe problem that is fixed by this bill is that many of these boards, the charitable entities that were affected by the particular Act, ended up having to prepare two sets of financial statements. They were supposed to prepare two sets of financial statements. Now, it\u2019s not that difficult. It doesn\u2019t take a lot to translate from one to the other but it was unnecessary. More to the point, it turned out that many of these entities weren\u2019t actually even doing the two sets of financial statements. Now they were prudent. They were managing their money well. They were accounting for it properly. There is no suggestion anywhere of any impropriety or anything like that. Nevertheless, just because of the way things had fallen out, they weren\u2019t actually complying with the law and they weren\u2019t actually preparing those two sets of financial statements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EPerhaps, ordinarily, you might think that was possibly something that should be sanctioned and there should be a sanction associated with it, but that would be a sledgehammer to crack a walnut\u2014not worth the effort. So this bill actually turns it around and says, no, rather than imposing that unreasonable compliance burden, let\u2019s fix the problem. And that is, of course, the job of the Parliament: to fix the problem, to make it the best we can for our constituents and the entities that are affected. That is our job as parliamentarians: where we see a problem, to do our best to make sure that we, if can, put it right\u2014that we make things better and easier for the people we work for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, a small bill\u2014a small bill\u2014but it has some interesting aspects to it, and it\u2019s a bill that I think will make a difference to the Auckland Philharmonia, the Rescue Helicopter Trust, the coastguard, the theatre company, Drowning Prevention Auckland, New Zealand Opera\u2014all good organisations, all worthy organisations, all organisations that, of course, add to the cultural and social and sporting life of Auckland. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u002275407b9c9bd84dbd98582c3863412a39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275407b9c9bd84dbd98582c3863412a39\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. An absolute pleasure to stand on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to this, the second reading now of the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. Absolutely a pleasure indeed to take my call because New Zealand First will support this private bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start my contribution by noting that I\u2019m not a bean counter; so I\u2019m not able to give you the detail and the background relating to the accounting practices, as my good colleague Dr Deborah Russell has been able to do with her extensive background in taxation and accounting matters. And I also, too, would like to make note of my other colleague, Michael Wood, and his contribution giving us the historical background to the formation of these amenities coming together in the Auckland region. I\u2019d note also, too, the member who has this bill in her name, Parmjeet Parmar, also too noting that she said that this doubling up was overlooked and therefore this is a small but technical bill that needs fixing, and therefore we are very supportive of ensuring this bill goes through all of its stages. As I mentioned, it is a small and technical bill, and making changes that require these specific amenities to prepare financial statements in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo I would like to talk to what I know of some of these amenities, having spent 20-odd years in the Auckland region. My colleague Michael Wood talked about his relationship with the Stardome and, as a part-time stay-at-home mum, I was very much always there as a parent help whenever the school went on their trips, And, of course, coming from the Warkworth region it was always great to come into Auckland to visit some of the facilities there, and Stardome was of particular interest for all the parents. You had to get in line really quickly to put up your hand to be parent help on that particular trip. So, although we didn\u2019t get the whole The Dark Side of the Moon, Pink Floyd experience that we heard in the House from Michael Wood, I think that for the children that went, and all those schoolchildren who have been to the Stardome, what an amazing experience that large 360-degree planetarium theatre is. What they learn about science, what they learn about their place in the world, and what they learn about space sets their minds to creative and wondrous things. So I think, really, if there was an opportunity for me to go back as a grown-up without being parent help, I\u2019d really be excited to have one of the other amenities which are in this bill\u2014maybe the Auckland Philharmonia, if they could play at Stardome, perhaps giving a grand rendition of Gustav Holst\u2019s The Planets - Mars, the Bringer of War. That would be my cup of tea indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t go into the historical background; that has been covered. The bill has been well outlined by the member Parmjeet Parmar, who has brought this bill to the House, and the accounting practices certainly have been well traversed as well. I would just like to say a couple of other points, though: that New Zealand First absolutely supports this bill. They are common-sense measures to bring into alignment the practices of the specified Auckland regional amenities and the legislation that governs their financial reporting. And, just a quick wee note, as I finish off my short contribution: it was under National, specifically Paul Goldsmith, that the change in the Charities Act in 2015 was passed without spotting the impact that this would have on the amenities in this bill. So today we\u2019re here as part of the process to fix that up. I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022 data-id=\u00223f676b9b4382480382786e29f42e7e5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f676b9b4382480382786e29f42e7e5c\u0022\u003ESARAH DOWIE (National\u2014Invercargill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Of course I rise in support of this private bill in the name of Dr Parmjeet Parmar\u2014absolutely fabulous colleague and a hard-working list MP that has brought this bill to the Parliament to fix up on behalf of these amenities that need this to save them time and save them cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EBut may I begin by saying that it\u2019s an absolute pleasure to be back on the Governance and Administration Committee after announcing that I won\u2019t be seeking re-election. I started my political career in 2014 as the deputy chair of the Government Administration Committee\u2014I think, too, with you, Mr Chair, on that select committee. It\u2019s a great select committee\u2014such a breadth of information, and what Dr Jian Yang doesn\u2019t understand is that there\u2019s probably going to be a bit of a coup d\u2019\u00E9tat because I\u2019ve never been chair of that committee, and so he\u2019d better watch himself, because it\u2019s quite a powerhouse select committee. And, of course, no wonder this bill was referred to that select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the bill and what it does traversed quite significantly, and I think my colleague Dr Parmjeet Parmar set it out very, very well. She set out the background. She set out the need for why the bill was so necessary and then talked about the ramifications, and while bills are not always exciting, they are of course necessary, and this is to save time and cost to these organisations that are out there providing benefit to the Auckland community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229884e8e8-651f-4f48-a429-70b72d5e2821\u0022\u003ESo, look, the purpose of this bill, quite succinctly, is that it removes from the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008 the requirement that specified amenities prepare financial statements according to the New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards and to allow for specified amenities to prepare a single set of financial statements that comply with generally accepted accounting practices. And that, as I said before, is going to save time and cost and angst to the people that are involved in these organisations. So let them get on with the job, let them get on with providing benefit to the Auckland community, and let\u2019s make it easier for them. And with that I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00229b5d21ca30bd4424b870120343bf1897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b5d21ca30bd4424b870120343bf1897\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a short call on behalf of the Green Party in support of the National Party member Parmjeet Parmar\u2019s private bill, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill, and to congratulate her on the successful progress of the legislation as well as the introduction of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe House is in unanimous support, it seems, of this\u2014as I think was described by the member herself\u2014quite technical bill. It\u2019s addressing an identified problem in Auckland for the Auckland regional amenities\u2014and there\u2019s a range of those from, as we\u2019ve heard, the observatory to the Auckland Festival Trust and the Auckland Regional Rescue Helicopter Trust\u2014where the way the legislation is currently being set up they\u2019re being required to comply with the Charities Act, which uses and requires them to put in financial reports at a particular time of year, according to a non-profit\u2014I think the shorthand is GAAP\u2014generally accepted accounting practice, but the legislation also requires them to put in accounts at a separate time of year according to International Financial Reporting Standards. Primarily, those reporting standards are for for-profit agencies and don\u2019t fit neatly for not-for-profit organisations, and all of the amenities are not-for-profit organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo this legislation means they can just put in the one set of accounts that reflect the nature of their organisations, and the select committee\u2019s consideration of this\u2014and the member Deborah Russell well traversed the submissions in her contribution\u2014is that there is very clear support for this legislation from everyone. The committee, I guess, found out through that process that, while this was the legal requirement, quite a few of the organisations were not\u2014and they were just complying in terms of the Charities Act and putting in their accounts, which was very sensible but we don\u2019t want that uncertainty for people and we want people to be able to comply with the law and for that to make sense. And this piece of legislation enables that. So we support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022eddd219340274cc1b8b88e23b82c8b22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eddd219340274cc1b8b88e23b82c8b22\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. I rise with great delight as an Auckland MP to take a call on the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill, which is quite a mouthful but is actually, as members previously have said, a technical bill that makes a tweak. Now, many of us come to this House to pass, or to see the passing of, sort of bold, ambitious, progressive legislation\u2014sometimes quite controversial. But also, equally, the other role that this House plays is to make sure that legislation, as and when is required, is tidied up so that legislation is accessible to members of the public, and also so that legislation actually makes life a little bit easier for people and doesn\u2019t complicate things for them. And this bill falls into that latter category, but that doesn\u2019t make it any less important to the people whose lives it does affect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo what this piece of legislation, once passed, would actually do is remove the requirement that specified amenities prepare financial statements in accordance with what\u2019s actually two different sets of rules, as it were\u2014so not in accordance with the New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards\u2014and to allow specified amenities to prepare just a single set of financial statements that comply with generally accepted accounting practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, at this point, I just want to go into a little bit of detail because it hasn\u2019t been traversed tonight previously. Often when we launch into our viewpoints on a piece of legislation, we do get questions from those who do watch us speak to these bills, asking us questions about some of the more detailed aspects of it. For example, in this bill, not a lot of people realise what specified amenities are. So, now, what this bill does is amend the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act 2008. Under that piece of legislation, there was, basically, a particular board that was established as a result of that principal Act, and that was the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board, which incidentally was also a submitter to this bill, which makes sense because they\u2019re significantly affected by this. Anyway, that board\u2014in accordance with the Act, Auckland Council pays a levy that the board then disburses to nine specified amenities, and those are, essentially, the organisations that are at the heart of what we\u2019re discussing here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThey are the Auckland Philharmonia Orchestra, New Zealand Opera, Auckland Theatre Co., Auckland Arts Festival, and, as my colleague Michael Wood mentioned previously, Stardome Observatory and Planetarium, that I like to think lies between his electorate of Mt Roskill and the Maungakiekie electorate that I\u2019m based in, and is a beautiful place, as he mentioned as well\u2014and of course, Coast Guard Northern Region, Surf Lifesaving Northern Region, Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust, and WaterSafe Auckland. So if you were to look at this, this is basically a range of organisations that deliver some really important services to what is, essentially, the largest city in New Zealand and an incredibly diverse one. These are organisations that deliver arts, culture, recreational, heritage, rescue, and other safety-focused facilities and services to the entire Auckland region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, I looked at some of the submissions that came through on the bill\u2014and, actually, before I go there, I might just traverse some of the recommendations of the proposed amendments that came through the select committee. This, of course, is a second reading. And so, also at this point, I just want to acknowledge all those who submitted on this bill, took the trouble to do so\u2014some of them were very substantive submissions as well and made some really interesting points. Two proposed amendments, substantive amendments\u2014one, of course, was around the clarity of the commencement date, and that came through from one of the submitters as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBasically, there was a call to make some of the transitional provisions in this bill clearer, because the bill as introduced doesn\u2019t actually state when the proposed changes would come into effect. And that would be important to the organisations that are affected by this because they would want to know, if there are transitional provisions, how those come into effect. And so the recommendation by the select committee that considered this bill was to set out transitional provisions in Schedule 1AA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, the second point is one that I will come back to in a little bit more detail, but, basically, this is a retrospective bill. It fixes an anomaly that came into effect in 2015 because, really, the Government of the day didn\u2019t have the foresight then to see that what they were doing then was going to cause this problem for a number of organisations\u2014and I will come back to that, because it\u2019s actually laid out very well by one of the submitters as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo the External Reporting Board\u2019s submission was one that I found really interesting. It was quite substantive, and it lays out very clearly what the crux of the problem is. They have said, \u201CWe understand that the specified amenities in the Auckland region within the scope of the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board are all registered charities and therefore already subject to the financial reporting requirements in section 42A of the Charities Act 2005. The Charities Act establishes requirements for charities to report in accordance with [generally accepted accounting practice] (GAAP)\u201D, which is a different financial standard, as I understand, and one that is actually being used a lot more than the older standard that previously these organisations were required to report to.\u201D Going back to the quote, \u201Cor in the case of smaller charities to report in accordance with a non GAAP standard issued by\u201D from this particular board that was submitting. And they go on to then basically say that a registered charity that determines it\u2019s a tier 1, a tier 2 public benefit entity. That\u2019s actually the crux of the matter here, because the two different reporting standards, one was actually more for profitable entities, and these organisations\u2014the nine that I outlined previously\u2014aren\u2019t. They\u2019re not-for-profit entities and therefore shouldn\u2019t be subject to that same reporting standard as well. So anyway, I thought that particular submission laid out the issues really well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, going on to the submission and to the points that I wanted to go into in a little bit more detail. That was the board, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board, which of course is the one that disperses the levy from the council. Now, they said, \u201CAmendments made to the Charities Act that came into force in 2015 resulted in the specified amenities having to produce financial statements, according to both the New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards and GAAP.\u201D So that was a little bit unfair because these organisations\u2014already not-for-profit, generally already struggling with compliance\u2014had to then comply with these two completely different and often conflicting standards as well. And this, as they\u2019ve said, places unnecessary burden and cost on those specified amenities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI spent a number of years working in the community and voluntary sector, running an organisation that wasn\u2019t quite within, I guess, the ambit of what these nine organisations provide, but similar in the sense that, you know, you\u2019re struggling, you\u2019ve got to\u2014one, not you\u2014one has to apply for funding, one has to comply with often a number of different reporting requirements, auditing requirements. And any requirement or any burden that we can lessen for these organisations is a really good thing. It then also takes away the burden from the people who work for these organisations as well. And essentially, that\u2019s what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut the final point that I wanted to make is that, at the end of the day, this is a bill that fixes a mess that the previous National Government created. And that seems to be a little bit of a trend, because that\u2019s what this Government is doing as well. We\u2019ve inherited a mess across a number of sectors, and that\u2019s what, for example, our infrastructure funding spending is aiming to fix. So a little bit of a change here\u2014a bit of a mess, not a lot of foresight, and now we\u2019re going to go about having to fix that. And in the interim, it was unfortunately those non-profit organisations that had to bear the brunt of what was a lack of thought, a lack of foresight by the previous National Government. But this bill, all said and done, fixes an anomaly. It\u2019s a good thing for a number of organisations and a number of people, and I\u2019d like to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022be5b3abc12dd4342804a609831127c12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be5b3abc12dd4342804a609831127c12\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Chris Penk\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00228369d53fd6f242d49470eb626ab550d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228369d53fd6f242d49470eb626ab550d7\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s not every day of the week that one gets to speak to a private bill\u2014but it does give me an opportunity as a pedant to point out that the phrase \u201Cprivate member\u2019s bill\u201D is an incorrect one. So we\u2019ve got members\u2019 bills, we\u2019ve got private bills, but a private member\u2019s bill\u2014there is no such thing. [Interruption] That\u2019s right, Mr Scott. The equivalent in radio transmission terms is that irritating phrase \u201Cover and out\u201D. One finishes one\u2019s transmission and says \u201Cover\u201D, meaning that it\u2019s the turn for the next person, or one says \u201Cout\u201D, and that means one\u2019s finishing. Anyhoo, moving on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThis is a private bill, as I say, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill, and I was interested to read the Governance and Administration Committee report, noting the breadth of submitters. One particularly caught my eye, the Surf Life Saving Northern Region. They\u2019re in my patch in force and I would like to recognise their contribution rescuing, actually, a couple of different bits of legislation this week, as well as many souls off the West Coast and elsewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThey also submitted to a different select committee earlier in this week on a different piece of legislation, so kudos to them. Others have mentioned submitters, including the New Zealand Opera. They seem to have been singing off the same song sheet and the Stardome, meaning that we could say that the support is almost universal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo we come to the main purpose of the bill, which is really to align in the area of accounting standards. I must admit that until tonight that represented a bit of a gap in my knowledge, and the Hansard folk can decide how they wish to spell that\u2014perhaps as the acronym GAAP, for generally accepted accounting practice. It seems to be pretty clear across the House that that\u2019s\u2014well, it\u2019s generally accepted that\u2019s a worthwhile thing to do for these various amenities to prepare their books in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not every day you get to do a good accounting joke or even a bad one, but I say it\u2019s been recognised. It\u2019s worth throwing in every now and then for the sake of balance. It\u2019s also been marked down in the ledger by a couple of colleagues, and I\u2019m indebted to them. I\u2019ll conclude by just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc4ed9b76d6c484fae2f1066804138b6\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Argh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d44e6028074536baccfe5fb9fe1040\u0022\u003EAlastair Scott\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019ll be finished soon. Don\u2019t worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221641b7c7f9294c00bde377cd97727758\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m about to be struck off, I think. Anyway, on a more serious note, and in an area in which I\u2019m at least a little less inexpert: retrospective validation. Well, this doesn\u2019t seem to disadvantage anyone who had been relying on the rules, so that\u2019s not a bad thing in itself, and, in fact, the overall effect of the bill is very positive, as others have noted. I also support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022 data-id=\u002265cc3a0133d4420bbac79afd0e517320\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265cc3a0133d4420bbac79afd0e517320\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a reasonably short call to support this bill\u2014[Interruption]\u2014that will be full and comprehensive, because it\u2019s such a wonderful and comprehensive bill. On that note, I\u2019d like to start by acknowledging Dr Parmjeet Parmar for sponsoring this very important bill. Also, I would like to follow my colleague the member for Mt Roskill, Michael Wood, in acknowledging the former member the Hon Judith Tizard, the Minister for Auckland Issues, who introduced the principal legislation in the first place, and, of course, I\u2019d like to acknowledge all those members, former and current, who worked tirelessly to make Auckland a better city and a better place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EThis is a small, technical but very important bill. Currently, the combination of requirements under the principal Act and the Charities Act of 2005 means that specified amenities under the principal Act would have to meet two different accounting requirements. My learned colleague Dr Deborah Russell, in her earlier contribution, explained the difference with, in particular, generally accepted accounting practice. So this bill is designed to fix that part of the problem. Again, this is a small, technical but very important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EIn terms of technical issues in this space, we have spent a considerable amount of time talking about similar technical issues\u2014for instance, the big three: Moody\u2019s, Standard and Poor\u2019s, and the Fitch group. The big three credit rating agencies and their credit ratings and their impact on central government\u2019s and local government\u2019s ability to raise funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EAs a member of this very busy coalition Government, I\u2019m very glad to report that before Christmas, this busy Government introduced and passed the first reading of another technically driven bill which enabled an SPV, or special purpose vehicle, which enabled long-term, private debt financing. That particular bill was important if you look at the infrastructure package\u2014the $12 billion infrastructure package\u2014to build and upgrade our roads, rail, schools, and hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003ENow, back to this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299362809a4cb41988fc03c9565769dfb\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd2ae2397194876837dafde418e4e41\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014ha, ha!\u2014I\u2019d like to echo my learned colleague Mr Chris Penk. We spent a good time when we were both members of the busy Justice Committee. We have since moved on to another select committee, as some members have acknowledged and noticed, and, pretty much, the work\u2019s just followed us. So, whichever committee we have got involved in, that committee has become very busy, which is a good sign, because for the Justice Committee, for instance, we got 22 bills and it sent 22 bills back to the House for their second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003EBack to this bill, again. The select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226967aea594434ee2bbdd1379868898f4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve hardly got there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248d9e7fe-3603-456c-bd32-c8d6177395fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d5a1a7a1ce4229891810da8b3210b6\u0022\u003ERAYMOND HUO\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014recommended two important amendments\u2014[Interruption] I don\u2019t know why this particular bill is that interesting to all the members across the board. But, anyway, the second-most important recommendation recommended by the select committee is with regard to retrospectivity, because, as Michael Wood explained in detail, why it is very important for us to introduce that particular amendment is simply because that went to the very nature of this bill. On that note, probably I should say I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u00223d17d0a87a3d4f1686387d7aafadab27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d17d0a87a3d4f1686387d7aafadab27\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s with pleasure I rise as a member of the hard-working, highly organised professional Opposition. Unlike Raymond Huo, the previous speaker, I\u2019ve never been on the Justice Committee, and therefore I won\u2019t be talking about anything that is on the Justice Committee. I\u2019m going to talk about this bill, which is the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThis side of the House is supporting it, obviously, because it\u2019s come from one of our fine members, Parmjeet Parmar. She\u2019s brought it up. She\u2019s worked with her local community and understood over time that there\u2019s something wrong in the way the accounting standards are being used. Effectively, tonight we are seeking to make right something that has been wrong. And really what this is about is entities that provide wonderful services and facilities in Auckland that are not run for a profit\u2014so the International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) do require people to prepare reports in accordance with the generally accepted accounting practice (GAAP).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EBut the point of this is that IFRS really was set up for profit-making entities, and, therefore, the entities that we\u2019re talking about\u2014the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust, Surf Life Saving Northern Region, and others\u2014are really in the wrong place. Effectively, those entities have been charged with preparing two sets of accounts, or, if not, they are in breach with either IFRS or GAAP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo this bill, basically, says that you can, effectively, replace the requirement to use IFRS and you can prepare accounts according to the generally accepted accounting practice. This will remove cost and effort and hassle, and, importantly, mean that these entities are compliant with the law. It does require some validation, some retrospective validation, and the Governance and Administration Committee looked at that. We sought advice on whether that was appropriate. The advice from the officials was that it was an appropriate thing to be done. No harm had been done by what had happened up until now. It might have been a technical breach, but no financial material change had occurred. So, for that reason, the committee accepted it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is important here is many of these are run as charities, and, as charities, they are required to prepare financial statements according to the generally accepted accounting practice. So once we\u2019ve done this, they will be compliant with the generally accepted accounting practice for charities. There\u2019ll be no requirement to do two sets of accounts, and this will save time, money, and effort for the charities involved to get on with the work with which they\u2019re charged with doing. We support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00229c6ee2d0fa774489b50d7c2ab49b1b10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c6ee2d0fa774489b50d7c2ab49b1b10\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute privilege to stand here tonight to make a call on the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill, also known as the \u201CARAFA\u201D bill. Was it \u201CARAFA\u201D? \u201CARFA\u201D\u2014a-r-f-a\u2014\u201CBill\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the member Dr Parmjeet Parmar for this bill. Thank you, Dr Parmar. I acknowledge her chairwomanship. Every time I visit the Education and Workforce Committee, I\u2019m always respectful of the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EBefore I get on to the bill, I want to talk about my visit to Papakura High School on Monday. The principal, John Rohs\u2014I need to say this because, every time I get up, I\u2019m always talking about how privileged I am to be under the leadership of the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern. I\u2019m always saying that, and I think it\u2019s important that we hear the voices of the community leaders, of what they say about the Prime Minister. I want to quote now Principal John Rohs. He was a principal in Christchurch, in Aranui High School.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022653cdb173f2b411dbfcb681b412fd465\u0022\u003EHon Poto Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Aranui High School!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22a15a9090444dfb775c0991c57c13d\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: And he\u2019d set out to say\u2014kia orana to you, Minister Poto Williams. What he said to me was about his description of the Prime Minister. And I quote: \u201CShe\u2019s made it so worthwhile to be in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0124f52a9574b9ab745c9c7a3c53f06\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You need to relate that to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fcf01680f3e415f9a91be1e541a31bd\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019m bringing it to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daab0fc6c5d94541bd48bf34ac4f2124\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Otherwise I\u2019m going to have to terminate your speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6de7a0bf58426c94b53315e8345822\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Kia ora, e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. So I\u2019m bringing it to the bill because Papakura is in Auckland, and we are the biggest city in New Zealand. The Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern lives there, and, of course, Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki\u2014I live there as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo this bill was\u2014I\u2019ll just give you a brief history, in case they have forgotten. The bill was introduced on 12 September, and it had its first reading on 25 September and was referred to the Governance and Administration Committee. I might say I have not been with the Governance and Administration Committee. I have not been a visitor to that committee, and I look forward to it. Today, from that awesome committee, they recommend that they have examined this, the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill. They have examined it and they report that we should support it. I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the select committee: the chair, Mr Jian Yang; Ginny Andersen, a member in the Hutt south; Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi; Sarah Dowie, who spoke earlier before; Paul Eagle, the awesome member for Rongotai; the Hon Peeni Henare, the current member for T\u0101maki Makaurau; Willow-Jean Prime; Lawrence Yule; and, of course, contributions by Dr Parmjeet Parmar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to continue my acknowledgment of the 12 organisations that had provided submissions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d36cc259184ba6af7cbd50b2d1ac0c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who were they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a389cc0b8f442a9a24049c5ec52095c\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and out of the 12, nine had actually supported it. So the question was, who are they? I will oblige by naming all 12. They were the Auckland Philharmonia Trust; the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust; the Amenities Board; the Coast Guard Northern Region; the Auckland Theatre Co.; the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board, again; Drowning Prevention Auckland; the External Reporting Board; the New Zealand Opera; Surf Life Saving Northern Region; the Auckland Festival Trust; and, of course, the Auckland Observatory and Planetarium Trust Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhen I read this bill\u2014I\u2019m not a member of the board\u2014it reminded me, as a 15-year-old, of when I was filling out the tax returns for my friends and families, and charging them a donation of 20 bucks, and it also reminded me\u2014and I want to acknowledge all the non-Government agencies out there\u2014of when I was the treasurer for Pacific islands women\u2019s group PASIFIKA, when I was completing the end-of-year accounts. It reminded me of that, because my brain, like the observatory in Onehunga, it almost exploded into the universe. So when I read the bill, that\u2019s what it actually reminded me of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EIt is a very important bill, because what the bill, in simple terms, is saying is it\u2019s for the organisations whose livelihoods depend on this\u2014the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Amendment Bill is about completing one set of accounts. And I want to get to that. I want to say\u2014yeah, it\u2019s one set of accounts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c91b709fa1c64605b24fb25e37dc0f64\u0022\u003EHon Meka Whaitiri\u003C/span\u003E: Shared services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c114afb4fe7442c8996b2fdab0c54678\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. So the bill seeks to amend, and what it would correct, like our previous speakers have spoken about, is an anomaly in financial reporting requirements that apply to special amenities such as the Auckland Festival Trust. Tonight, in Auckland, in every March, for the last I think four years\u201412 years, actually\u2014we\u2019ve got the Auckland Festival. And tonight, I know that you\u2019d rather be listening to me than be in Auckland listening to Hollie Smith\u2014she kicks off the Auckland Arts Festival\u2014where she\u2019s going to be singing the M\u0101ori version of \u201CBathe in the River\u201D, or the \u201CBohemian Rhapsody\u201D, in waiata, in Te Reo M\u0101ori. I don\u2019t think everybody would like me to sing it; they would prefer that Hollie Smith does it. That\u2019s one of the charities, which is the Auckland Festival Trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to make special mention that it has been 50 years since the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust have been in operation, saving lives in Auckland for 50 years. I want to say thank you for what you do. The Surf Life Saving Northern Region, at a glance: they have, in the last year, 427 rescues, 1,000 youth aide teachers, and 43,000 prevention actions involving over 128,000 people, all of those in 88,500 volunteer hours. I just want to say thank you to the Surf Life Saving Northern Region. Thank you for what you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ELast, but not least, in terms of the organisations that I\u2019m going to acknowledge, is the Auckland Philharmonia Trust, which also provides a programme at the Vodafone Events Centre in Manukau, which is in Auckland south, or South Auckland, as everybody knows. I really like their programme. They especially have a one-off programme called\u2014well, the special concert of \u201CPese! Fasi! P\u016Boru!\u201D And it\u2019s about music for everybody, making orchestra something for everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo, like I\u2019ve said before, the member Dr Deborah Russell referred to International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) and she referred to generally accepted accounting practice (GAAP), but the bill would replace a requirement for specified amenities to prepare financial statements in accordance with the New Zealand equivalent to international financial reporting standards with a requirement to prepare in accordance with generally accepted accounting practice. So when I heard \u201CGAAP\u201D, I was thinking \u201CWhat\u2019s GAAP?\u201D Anyway, I realise now that it is the \u201Cgenerally accepted accounting practice\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAgain, I just want to remind the House what the purpose of this bill is. The purpose of this bill is to remove from the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Act the requirement that specified amenities prepare financial statements according to the New Zealand International Financial Reporting Standards\u2014which is, like the member Dr Deborah Russell referred to, IFRS. It is to allow specific amenities to prepare one single set of financial statements that comply with generally accepted accounting practice\u2014that comply with GAAP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESo like I said before, my head when I was listening to the member for Mt Roskill, Michael Wood, talking about the Stardome at One Tree Hill, when I studied this bill\u2014yeah, my head almost exploded into the atmosphere, because I think for most people it says \u201Ctiny anomaly\u201D, but actually, as a ratepayer in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, in Auckland, this is important so that we enable these nine groups that are receiving funding from the Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board to complete their financial obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAgain, I want to acknowledge all 12 organisations that submitted. I don\u2019t think I will oblige by repeating who they are. But I want to also acknowledge the select committee, who have actually recommended that we support this bill, and, of course, last but not least, the sponsor of the bill\u2014and it is a member\u2019s bill, not a private member\u2019s bill. That\u2019s an obsolete word, \u201Cprivate member\u2019s\u201D. It\u2019s a member\u2019s bill from Dr Parmjeet Parmar. Thank you very much for this bill, and congratulations. On this member\u2019s day, I would like to commend this bill that has been recommended by the committee. I would like to commend it to the House. M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00225bd1a488774047b09cccc89184e6a7e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bd1a488774047b09cccc89184e6a7e4\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E What can you say to that, eh? Ten minutes of fluffing around, but well done to you\u2014well done to you! Great. You\u2019ve done the best speech tonight\u2014you\u2019ve done the best speech tonight. Mine is going to be so very short, because every aspect of this bill has been traversed tonight, and a lot of other areas that had nothing to do with this bill. But I just want to congratulate my colleague Dr Parmjeet Parmar for this wonderful bill, and I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002281661f803d494b4c96f14d12872951f6\u0022\u003EBroadcasting (New Zealand on Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho Reporting Requirements) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221834083e04554a95ad8df8b3e0185f92\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000673\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 10 December 2019.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022f07870e16f0148d4a1623c6fd3a61e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f07870e16f0148d4a1623c6fd3a61e29\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The media in New Zealand is in crisis. In fact, the media around the globe, around the world, is in crisis, and there are two ways it is in crisis: it is in a crisis of trust, and there\u2019s also a crisis of the economic model. What has happened over the last few years is that we have a disruptor that\u2019s come into the media landscape. We have a global disruptor\u2014Facebook and Google\u2014and they have sucked the advertising revenue from our local broadcasters, and that is crashing the economic model, the business model, of our media broadcasters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThrough the use of Facebook and the like, people are seeing their news, gathering their news, from sources that are not our traditional broadcasters, and a lot of what they are seeing is clickbait stories, fake news, and that has created a lack of trust in the media. When there\u2019s a lack of trust in the media, that absolutely erodes our democracy. It is really important that we ensure that our media are trustworthy, and we ensure our media are robust and are\u2014the fourth estate\u2014one of the pillars of our democracy. That\u2019s why I\u2019m really passionate about broadcasting. My career of 30 years led me to this House just a couple of years ago. The media currently has a really important role to play with COVID-19; a role in ensuring the public have the right information so that there is not hysteria and pandemonium because of clickbait headlines. That\u2019s the sort of background of where we\u2019re at with our media at the moment. So I turn now to the bill, the Broadcasting (New Zealand on Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho Reporting Requirements) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ENew Zealand On Air is our funding agency, along with Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho, who funds our M\u0101ori broadcasters\u2014that\u2019s M\u0101ori Television and iwi radio or M\u0101ori radio. There are 21 M\u0101ori radio stations in our network. The problem that I have with this bill is that it has no objective. It simply requires New Zealand On Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho to collect vast amounts of information and somehow report every three months on that vast amount of data that they gather. It really is bureaucracy gone mad, and it will put a handbrake on New Zealand On Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EOne of the important things that Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho and New Zealand On Air are currently doing is they are working away, providing programmes to be made to ensure that we increase our content of Te Reo M\u0101ori on air, so that we are able to reach out to our communities, to have Te Reo M\u0101ori accessed by more people. This bill won\u2019t help any of that. This literally is gathering data for the sake of gathering data, and when we have a media ecosystem where we have linear TV which is in decline, we have people listening to the radio, although the audiences still remain strong and stable, and then we have digital platforms where people are accessing content as well\u2014it will be very difficult to gather up that data when, for example, a video goes up on an on-demand channel. Maybe it\u2019s TV1 OnDemand or ThreeNow, and over what period of time will you gather that data to see how many people have watched that particular programme? They\u2019ll tap in on demand when they want to see it, not necessarily by appointment-viewing that we traditionally have\u2014for example, with the 6 o\u2019clock news or Coronation Street.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo the gathering of the data here is all well and good, but there will be no meaningful analysis which would make it worthwhile to do. So I think, generally, of the fact that our media ecosystem is so challenged at the moment, and we\u2019re working on strong and important ways of what we should do about particularly our public broadcasters at the moment to ensure that they survive not just now but into the future. I therefore feel that we have, as a coalition Government, a lot of work to do that matters in the broadcasting space, and we shouldn\u2019t waste any time on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5c78e33b5ed45ff896b2ecf1124e712\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5c78e33b5ed45ff896b2ecf1124e712\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak on my colleague Melissa Lee\u2019s fantastic member\u2019s bill. There\u2019s going to be quite a contrast between the previous speaker and myself, but I have to respect her passion and enthusiasm for the subject. However, that\u2019s about where we finish in agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think the previous speaker, Jenny Marcroft, said there was no objective in the bill. There is an objective: it\u2019s transparency. It\u2019s all about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e1c8fb445c47db9a2c663f068b1581\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: More red tape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998972498c274b0590fd3836014cf645\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014actually understanding what is being done. Actually, I hear a bit of a yapping over there about red tape. Actually, all this data is actually gathered. The only thing at the moment is NZ On Air only publish the top-10 performing programmes that they actually fund. So the data is all there. It\u2019s easily gathered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re in a new world today, and, unfortunately, those supporting the old formats of media are actually being left behind. They\u2019re being overrun. What\u2019s important about having objective measures is understanding your audience. That\u2019s not at all to say we should only fund the most popular programmes, but we have to ensure we\u2019re reaching the audience that we want to. If we set out to target a programme at a certain audience, how do we know if we\u2019re reaching them? If we don\u2019t measure it in some way, we won\u2019t know. Of course, there\u2019s a bit of a fear of sunlight here and in the industry, I feel\u2014particularly on the other side of the House\u2014and I think that\u2019s a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EGreat programmes like Country Calendar have been funded by NZ On Air. It\u2019s a phenomenally successful programme. Ironically, it\u2019s a country subject but the audience is mostly based in Auckland, and female. How do we know that? Because they gather that data. The producers of that show do a lot of work to ensure that they balance off telling really good country stories but also ensuring they appeal to that audience that watches it every week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIf they didn\u2019t have that data, they wouldn\u2019t know how to keep that programme up in the minds of people. The whole world has changed in this space. We used to have a lot of long-form documentaries in New Zealand and around the world, in fact. That has gone by the wayside, except for on YouTube now. That has become the new, hot sector on YouTube, which is long-form videos, interviews with people like Joe Rogan, or the Weinstein Brothers. You know, I watched an hour long interview the other night with Bjorn Lomborg.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThose things are very popular and, yes, they don\u2019t appeal to a mass audience, but they are getting millions of hits. The only reason we know that is because that\u2019s easily measured on YouTube, and it\u2019s publicly available. You can see it. The viewer can see how many people have watched it. So it\u2019s really important that we know that. It may be that we need to have our taxpayer dollars looking at doing those long-form sorts of interviews and putting them up on YouTube rather than broadcasting them on TV. But that\u2019s what we should be aiming at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got a broadcasting system that is here to tell our stories, but how do we know that people are listening? It seems that there\u2019s a selective deafness on the other side. Well, you know, it\u2019s all about socialism on that side, obviously. But I think it\u2019s quite interesting reading the Better Public Media Trust chair Peter Thompson\u2019s quote\u2014and this is the mentality of it\u2014he thought the bill \u201Cwould pervert the whole point of having public content funding agencies because it would expose them to [the cool winds of] performance\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWell, you know, really, he has to come back to the real world. It is a world where we want to ensure that our public expenditure goes to the direction we aim it at, not into some sort of ether and have it all disappear down the toilet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250958159c2e4444ebda8559ab897602a\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Save Country Calendar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278dc3c4dd15844ea8973d0e6c072b4ea\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Country Calendar\u2019s a great show. Actually, I\u2019d like to wind up with the one union that I really support\u2014apart from the rugby union\u2014which is the Taxpayers\u2019 Union, and that is Jordan Williams, whose great quote, I think, was that he called this bill\u2014it should be renamed the \u201CSpinoff TV Memorial Bill\u201D. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002232d72ebd92d74201a0a7f181e7c90877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232d72ebd92d74201a0a7f181e7c90877\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou katoa. I rise to oppose this legislation. I think the last member actually gave a good explanation of the different world views and visions, and also a clear argument why we need public broadcasting. That member listed off a litany of overseas-based YouTubers with the inference, I think, that, look, we don\u2019t maybe even need public broadcasting in New Zealand, because there are all these YouTubers out there like Joe Rogan. Now, Joe Rogan\u2019s a good YouTuber, but I think that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c71c82d06c4d7c84924bf1b7b521e0\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Who?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eeec3549d5749c0ab33630a966d51ac\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: Joe Rogan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985b5f6bdc174f79948696ab449d000d\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701396e68eb743f3bbb6734a4b4111ab\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s a YouTuber and a podcaster. Well, the thing is that that member didn\u2019t list a single New Zealand YouTuber or podcaster. Now, if we\u2019re going to see New Zealand stories actually told in our media\u2014and I get the member\u2019s point that there\u2019s a whole bunch of different content platforms where we consume media\u2014we\u2019ve actually got to support it. That\u2019s why the Green Party can\u2019t support this legislation, because we want to strengthen, enhance, and greater fund public broadcasting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the member. It\u2019s a big moment in a member\u2019s career when a bill is finally pulled. I know it took me four years for my first bill to be pulled. It is a big moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the member for putting a bill in about public broadcasting. It isn\u2019t the issue that always gets the headlines, but it is a foundational issue for our society, for our democracy, and it\u2019s so important. It is what we turn to as a country as we count down to the anniversary of March 15. It is what we turn to with the COVID-19 pandemic. It\u2019s the source of information, and we want to see better public broadcasting. It\u2019s just a pity it\u2019s not a bill that the Green Party can support at this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EIf only it was a bill to increase funding for public broadcasting. If only it was a bill to enhance concert radio and other cultural entities we provide. If only it was a bill to support independent journalism. But it\u2019s not; it\u2019s simply a blunt instrument to require quarterly ratings information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, this isn\u2019t going to address the challenges. There are a number of challenges facing the broadcasting sector, from funding, convergence, and disruptive business models. However, I think there are five key reasons why the Green Party, sadly, can\u2019t support Melissa Lee\u2019s member\u2019s bill at this point. I mean, we point out, as other members have, the blindingly obvious, that it already happens. NZ On Air already collects this information. It is an element in their funding decision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f5ce5299e4c4ab8854f23e6d3db585a\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Red tape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c46fcbe65f41dd9ec3979bec357c4c\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but our point is that it shouldn\u2019t be the pinnacle or the paramount reason that funding decisions are made. Otherwise, you get, you know, Celebrity Treasure Island, and not the quality public broadcasting which we so desperately need in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d point out other contributions that it might actually not be legally possible. I\u2019d point out that focussing on this simply increases the costs, and other members have yelled out about red tape and regulations. I would note the irony after the bonfire of regulations only a couple days ago. I don\u2019t know why we\u2019re increasing the administrative burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also point out that it increases cost, and the point raised by Morgan Godfery: \u201C[Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho] does not always purchase [this rating] information [already] so [this] Bill would create an additional cost\u201D, and \u201Cthe quarterly reports could be used \u2026 [that Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho\u2019s] low rating shows do not provide value for money.\u201D, because what we know is that you\u2019re contrasting oranges and lemons. It\u2019s a total different thing, and we do acknowledge that fear portrayed by Morgan Godfery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ESo when it comes to the key issues facing broadcasting and the sector in New Zealand, this bill is, sadly, a little bit too little, too late. You know, for nine years we saw RNZ suffer under a funding freeze. I remember questioning Paul Thompson, the CEO, and he told me in select committee a few years back that they had even stopped putting in funding requests under the previous Government because he said, \u201CIt was like hitting your head against a brick wall.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI would point out that this Government has increased the funding\u2014$15 million to NZ On Air and RNZ. In the member\u2019s defence, you know, it\u2019s hard to fix all the issues of convergence and disruption in a member\u2019s bill, but we can\u2019t be supporting a piece of legislation which is actually going to make the status quo worse, in our opinion. So we note the work undertaken by Minister Faafoi to review the sector, the increased funding. The Green Party will always vote for bills which increase funding for public broadcasting, that enhance the sector, that grow it, and that strengthen it. Sadly, this isn\u2019t one of those bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002200c9ad43bc09460681e973006245d5e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200c9ad43bc09460681e973006245d5e8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I just couldn\u2019t help myself; I\u2019m irrationally excited about this bill. I have to tell you, I think NZ On Air do an amazing job. We should remember about the history of NZ On Air\u2014of course, it came from the broadcasting fee. NZ On Air was the way we used to distribute the proceeds from the broadcasting fee, before the broadcasting fee was done away with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOnce upon a time, if you owned a television set, you had to pay a broadcasting fee, and that broadcasting fee was collected up, and it was used to produce New Zealand content. Then, I think it was the National Government that actually did away with the broadcasting fee and shifted that into general taxation so that New Zealand content on our TV and radio was to be funded through general taxation rather than through a dedicated broadcasting fee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESince that time, successive Governments have taken measures and done everything they can to ensure that as much of that money as possible is spent on producing quality New Zealand content. We want to make sure that the money that goes into broadcasting actually makes New Zealand content, rather than getting sucked up in bureaucracy. That is one of the reasons why this bill fails at the first hurdle. It wraps up more resource in a red tape bureaucratic process. It means less money will get spent on producing content in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe last National member who spoke, I can\u2019t remember who it was, made the point that it won\u2019t be too difficult because all of this data\u2019s already available. In which case, if the data\u2019s already available, what\u2019s the need for the red tape, for this new regulatory requirement? Because that\u2019s effectively what this is: a new regulatory requirement to report something new. What\u2019s the point of it, if the data\u2019s already publicly available and can already be used to inform decision making, other than simply to add unnecessary regulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut then I thought, \u201CAha! It\u2019s OK, though, because I heard Simon Bridges say that for every new regulation the National Party introduces, they\u2019re going to abolish two.\u201D So when I heard this bill was up, I rushed down to the House and I grabbed a copy of the bill because I thought there\u2019s going to be two more regulations that are going to be abolished in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo I looked at the bill and I read it and I read it again, and there is no bonfire, because not only does this bill introduce a new regulation but it doesn\u2019t take any regulations away. So that promise lasted less than 48 hours\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf7631ea41349b9a2201027b6b37866\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Worst bonfire ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799f94e8afa3464a8555a9283f6906d8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. That is the worst. I mean they\u2019re not even in Government yet and they\u2019ve already broken their big promise to set a bonfire of regulations, because they\u2019re already trying to introduce new regulations from Opposition. That\u2019s quite an amazing feat that on the same week that they promised that they were going to be reducing regulations, they are now trying to progress a bill through the House that would increase regulatory requirements and bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s turn to the provisions of what those regulations would involve New Zealand On Air doing. So, basically, they\u2019re going to have to collect data on television ratings, online view clicks or counts, radio ratings, other viewership tracking data, and a breakdown of the associated costs for the programming funded. All of this information would be available anyway. You may have to pay for it, OK, but it\u2019s already there. That data is available to those who wish to purchase it. So why would New Zealand On Air need to pull that information together if not for a pointless bureaucratic accountability compliance-focused exercise that would add nothing to the quality of broadcasting in New Zealand. It will do nothing to increase the hours of programme content that it produced\u2014in fact, it could do the absolute opposite of that\u2014and it will result in them spending more money on producing more reports and more paperwork and less money doing their core job of producing quality New Zealand content.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo I have no hesitation in saying that the Government and the Labour Party, party in the Government, will not support this ridiculous bill. It\u2019s a waste of the House\u2019s time. It\u2019s a waste of the Parliament\u2019s time. National should be focused on honouring their promise to reduce regulation and they could do so by withdrawing the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u00222926fdc14fe9471287184cee7faabf6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222926fdc14fe9471287184cee7faabf6e\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call this evening, which I think will only be a brief call, because it is quite a brief bill, and, actually, a very simple bill and a common-sense bill. It is the Broadcasting (New Zealand on Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho Reporting Requirements) Amendment Bill. What I can\u2019t quite understand, even after listening to the better part of five minutes from Minister Chris Hipkins, is quite why it is that the Government are opposing this bill, and I\u2019ll come back to that in a moment if I can. But I just want to run through really quickly what this bill does, because it is very straight forward. All it will require is for New Zealand On Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho to publish quarterly reports that show viewership figures of every project they fund, including television ratings, radio ratings, online views, and any other viewership reporting tools, along with a breakdown of the costs associated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI sit on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014a very good committee\u2014where we regularly discuss broadcasting issues, and one of the things I find most useful in those discussions is looking at some of the broadcasting data, and particularly viewership figures. They allow us to track interest in programming, and particularly trends up and down, and, more than anything actually, to make assessments about value for money. But one of the challenges we have in doing those assessments is often we get data that doesn\u2019t quite line up, or comes from different sources, and so it makes those assessments about cost-effectiveness far more difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo this bill would make those discussions a lot easier because it would allow us to match up across a number of different platforms who\u2019s viewing or watching or reading what. So it would be a very valuable addition, because, after all, this isn\u2019t just about MPs, though, it\u2019s not just about the assessment that we make; it is about the public\u2014the wider public and allowing taxpayers also to make those assessments, to say, \u201CWe\u2019re not watching something. Why shouldn\u2019t we know if we\u2019re not watching something, and then we can decide if, or not, it is valuable to us?\u201D Because that programming is, of course, paid for by taxpayers, and that\u2019s not actually something that\u2019s been raised at all by Government members tonight. When New Zealand On Air funds something, that money comes from taxpayers. So why wouldn\u2019t we let them know\u2014quarterly, as this bill would\u2014what exactly it is New Zealanders are watching and what they\u2019re getting for their money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ENow, I did listen to Minister Chris Hipkins take five minutes to outline some of the reasons why the Government\u2019s voting against this bill, and one of the reasons he highlighted was red tape. Now, that made me laugh, because it\u2019s not very often a Labour Minister comes down to this House and complains about red tape, but the reason he said, \u201CWe can\u2019t have this bill because of red tape.\u201D Well, actually, Minister, this bill is about transparency. If all we were concerned about was red tape and putting compliance on to Government agencies and departments, we wouldn\u2019t have the Official Information Act, because that is red tape, but it\u2019s an important tool for transparency in a democracy. So I can\u2019t quite fathom why it is that the Government would be voting against this bill, which is all about transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t think there is some grand conspiracy as to why they\u2019re voting against this bill\u2014why they don\u2019t want the public to know who is watching or viewing what\u2014I just think they\u2019ve got it wrong. So I do ask the Minister, who\u2019s come down to the House, which is actually quite surprising\u2014he perhaps has been listening to some of his colleagues giving speeches on earlier bills and thought, \u201CGosh, I need to get down there and get things back on track.\u201D\u2014but I would ask him to reconsider his position on this bill and reconsider the Government\u2019s position on this bill. At least support it to select committee so that it can go there, we can hear from those taxpayers, we can hear from New Zealanders about why it is they deserve that information and why this bill should be passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00221b02f65cab804f1fac882b4f31408dab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b02f65cab804f1fac882b4f31408dab\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m very, very pleased to be able to speak on the Broadcasting (New Zealand on Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho Reporting Requirements) Amendment Bill. I think it\u2019s a tremendous use of taxpayers\u2019 money to have members of Parliament speaking on bills that, really, are unclear on what the problem is that they\u2019re trying to solve! The thing is that we have a proposal in front of us that would impose costs and regulation on two agencies that, actually, for the nine years prior to this Government, were severely underfunded, and now we\u2019re wanting to put more burden on them to release information that\u2019s already available. I\u2019m quite staggered really that when we are standing here today\u2014the very week that the leader of the National Party indicated that his solution, heading into the 2020 election, was to light a regulations bonfire. He said that \u201CRegulations are going too far, creating a lot of cost and burden without merit.\u201D They want to ignite the regulations, and what do they do now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e7bc643c6b346a2815e5e9ae35afbcd\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the bill self-combust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f807acc710648edb7fbf7536345ccde\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The bill may as well self-combust because it\u2019ll be the only thing that this bill achieves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe thing is that this bill is utterly pointless, and this message was sent very clearly, before we came out to even consider the bill, by two notable media commentators. And I have here in front of me: \u201CBroadcaster Russell Brown noted that New Zealand On Air is committed by law to funding programmes for various niche audiences, which can\u2019t sensibly be measured simply by commercial ratings\u201D. The chair of the public campaign group Better Public Media, Dr Peter Thompson, who said, it was \u201Cironic\u201D that \u201CMelissa Lee received millions of taxpayer dollars to make \u2026 Asia Downunder\u201D but now wants to change the law in what he described as \u201Can attack on low-rating public media content.\u201D Because, of course, we mustn\u2019t forget that the function of New Zealand On Air is to \u201Creflect and develop New Zealand identity and culture\u201D and to ensure that a range of broadcasts are available to provide for the interests of minority and special groups by making funds available for broadcasting, producing, and archiving programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf, under this bill, New Zealand On Air was forced to release rating information, we put it to the member and to this House that this bill would undermine the core functions of New Zealand On Air\u2014the very reason why New Zealand On Air exists. What this would do is it would say, \u201CSee you later, Country Calendar, and hello, \u2018Celebrity Treasure Island: MasterChef Special\u2019 \u201D. That is what we would see. We would see a race for ratings, and those key programmes that many minority and core interests in our society rely on would be kicked down the road. Absolutely, they would be shot down in pieces for the sake of ratings. And we all know the examples of the programmes overseas, coming out of the places like America and the UK; programmes like the The Ricki Lake Show and The Jeremy Kyle Show\u2014stuff that really wants to broadcast the best of New Zealand society, wants to really raise the minority interests, and tell the New Zealand stories, because, of course, that is what New Zealand On Air is for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThis bill would impose regulations and red tape and cost and bring New Zealand On Air away from its absolute core functions. We say that that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt would be an expensive implement, it would bring no gain whatsoever, and it makes me wonder. In the proud history of National Party members\u2019 bills, I think this goes up there at the top of the list with Nuk Korako\u2019s infamous baggage-handling bill, because it identifies a problem that isn\u2019t actually a problem and tries to bring a solution to something that doesn\u2019t need one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI think Melissa Lee and the National Party are opening themselves up to criticism of the old-fashioned ballot stuff. I think that they wanted to fill a gap and they struggled with ideas. Of course, they want to get into Government after the next election, and if this is the best they\u2019ve come up with, I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve got anything to worry about. I think we\u2019re going to be all right, because the fact is that New Zealand On Air, when adequately funded\u2014and particularly after the significant funding boost that this Government gave them\u2014is able to go back to its core functions of producing content that tells New Zealand\u2019s stories and that broadcasts our stories to the nation and to the world. It is unburdened, it is solely focused on its core purpose, and this bill would severely undermine that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022042b62a2bda54d8cb229ca171f679c5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022042b62a2bda54d8cb229ca171f679c5c\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to start my contribution in the closing of this bill by acknowledging the contribution of my colleagues on the examination of what I consider a vital piece of legislation for the future of broadcasting funding transparency. I want to say how deeply saddened I am to see, yet again, this Government, who chose to actually announce themselves as the most open and transparent in history, has closed ranks to deny that openness and that transparency that they promised\u2014that access to information on the performance of publicly funded media by deciding not to support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier, Jenny Marcroft talked about the convergence, and I acknowledge her knowledge of the mediascape and how there is actually huge convergence and disruptors out there. I would have thought that that member, at least, would have understood that having decent data and decent transparency and openness would perhaps help in the actual funding, and that more programmes could actually be funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI am particularly troubled by the decision by the Green Party, who\u2014despite their broadcasting spokesperson having given me repeated personal assurances that they would support the bill\u2014sent me a very late-night email just before the first reading began last December, and said that after having said they would support it, they couldn\u2019t support it any more. That was because they had had a conversation with the Minister, and that\u2019s the reason why they couldn\u2019t actually support the bill. For a party that once prided itself on making our Government and public services more open, this, in fact, is the new low. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI respect my friend Gareth Hughes across the House. He has been a wonderful friend in select committees and I respect his views. But, you know, to tell it how it is, it was, in fact, at the direction of the Minister, and that is the only reason why the Green Party will not support this bill to select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EYou know, for the past two years, our country has had to deal with every form of shady deal\u2014clandestine meetings and constitutional outrages at a volume that would make most Third World nations blush\u2014so it is truly disappointing when the Minister of broadcasting is actually having secret meetings with the head of news and content at Radio New Zealand. I mean, come on\u2014this is a real low. When members of a Government who are in coalition or in confidence and supply are not able to support it because the Minister has actually put his foot down, I think it\u2019s a real shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI truly believe that transparency in this area is required, and for those people who do not understand the process for members\u2019 bills, often members\u2019 bills are put into the ballot many years before they have their first readings. This bill was put in the ballot well before Mr McAnulty\u2019s presence in this Parliament, and, luckily, it was actually drawn and we had the beginning of its first reading last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIn terms of transparency, one of the members\u2014I think it was Mr McAnulty\u2014talked about my former role as a producer of a television programme called Asia Downunder. Yes, it did actually get funding from New Zealand On Air, and one of the problems that we had was that because we were a small production company, we could not get Nielsen ratings when we requested TVNZ and New Zealand On Air to provide the ratings so that we knew exactly how many people were tuning in, because this data can be very helpful for producers. It was very difficult to get our hands on it. I\u2019ve also had emails from independent producers\u2014much smaller ones\u2014who do, in fact, struggle to know the data. Knowing the data of viewership helps producers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis is not just about transparency of numbers to see what New Zealand On Air is actually funding, where the funding is going, and how many people are viewing but it also helps the producers to make decisions about their content. I think they\u2019re missing out on an opportunity, and I believe that sharing stories and ideas of our history\u2014today marks the continuation of the struggle of those creators and producers because this Government cannot decide to be transparent. It is a real shame that members of the Government in this House, across on that side, cannot support this bill to select committee. It is a real shame. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226a6d4d410d204260bcc6d6b1d640dd3f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Broadcasting (New Zealand On Air and Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho Reporting Requirements) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bfa1e86bb6440869d01b5c48b2a4829\u0022\u003EHigh-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291e5d32d266d456785a7e50891ef9dae\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022 data-id=\u00221b556390726d42f78bb0cca8cc901365\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b556390726d42f78bb0cca8cc901365\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EPut simply, New Zealand is well behind other countries in addressing the menace and the clear and present danger of high-powered lasers that pose a huge risk to our aviators, police, and the travelling public. In this bill, I seek to double the imprisonment sentence from three to six months and double the fines from $2,000 to $4,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EThe statistics are truly alarming. In the last six years, there has been a 130 percent increase in laser pointer cases, and 717 recorded cases since 2014. In the previous two weeks alone, there have been three cases: one where a man was arrested for flashing a laser at a police Eagle helicopter in Christchurch, and the others were a small plane in Wellington, and then, the following night, a two-seater aircraft was targeted. That\u2019s two incidents in two nights. Time and time again, we are now reading about reoccurring cases of lasers being pointed at aircraft, which puts a huge amount of lives at risk. People continue to point lasers at helicopters and planes, which just demonstrates that the current penalties simply are doing little to deter offenders. What we need to do here is to deter these offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ELast year, the Ministry of Health released a report which stated, \u201CIt is of continuing concern that numbers of laser strikes on aircraft continue to increase.\u201D The report also stated that \u201CCountries vary in their approaches to managing the risks from [high-power lasers] from raising public awareness to calling for voluntary improvements in labelling. However, there is consistency in terms of strong controls countries apply to address aircraft laser strikes, including bans and high penalties.\u201D, yet, at present, under this current Government, we\u2019re letting offenders do as they please, getting away with murder as laser strikes on aircrafts continue to increase. When will enough be enough? Do we have to wait until there is a disaster, or a plane comes down from the sky, or loss of life before this Government acts? When will they take a stronger stance to show zero tolerance to this idiotic and highly dangerous behaviour?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EOver the past few months, I\u2019ve been speaking to many pilots. They are telling me that trying to land a plane while you have a laser in your eyes is not only incredibly dangerous, it causes temporary headaches and blindness, causing hundreds of passengers\u2019 lives to be at risk, putting themselves, their crew, and every passenger sitting behind them at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EEven air traffic controllers are now becoming common targets. You only need to look a few kilometres from here, in Paul Eagle\u2019s electorate, at the new Wellington aircraft control tower. The same day\u2014the very same day\u2014it opened, some idiot in a nearby car park thought it was a good idea, have a bit of fun, to point a laser in that air traffic control tower, in the eyes of the controllers who have one of the most important and dangerous jobs in the world, safely bringing planes into land at Wellington Airport. This is one of the most complicated roles in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EPilots, air traffic controllers, police, and many other New Zealanders are continually asking for harsher penalties. I also understand that the current Government, even though they are aware of the increasing incidences and cases occurring, have also been told that New Zealand is lagging behind nearly every other single country worldwide. They still feel this doesn\u2019t need to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ENo one in this country should feel unsafe in their workplace, including those in aviation who hold the safety of hundreds of people\u2019s lives in their hands at any one time. Those in the emergency services who provide a critical lifesaving service are victims of high-powered lasers; for example, fighting fires in W\u0101naka the previous year a helicopter was brought down from the sky. It had to land because some idiot down below was pointing a high-powered laser into the eyes of that helicopter operator. The Eagle helicopter has been targeted while fighting crime from the air. Why are we not sending the message to deter these offenders from continuing with these idiotic behaviours and showing these offenders the full strength of the law? We need to deter these dangerous acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EWhat is incredibly disappointing, though, is the Minister of Transport isn\u2019t willing to put the safety of people before politics and support my bill. The Government\u2019s soft approach on crime, on these criminals, is endangering the lives of Kiwis, and in some cases the emergency services in New Zealand. [Interruption] I just want to acknowledge Darroch Ball over there who has a bill in the box around first responders. I hope that he takes a common sense approach and supports this bill. I look forward to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ESafety should be the paramount focus of all these ongoing issues, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re voted into Parliament. We are voted here to protect our people, to protect our citizens, keep them safe, especially when we\u2019re talking about heroes like the police helicopter operators, or the rescue helicopters, or even the pilots who fly hundreds of flights daily across New Zealand. The rescue helicopters, they put their own lives at risk going up into the sky to get hundreds of Kiwis to safety every year from point A to point B in their time of need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EWith the continuing increase of cases year on year, it is only a matter of time before a serious accident occurs. I ask this House tonight, are we willing to take that risk when we have the power now to do something about this, to send a strong message, and deter these criminals that do this? We need to do more to protect our pilots and passengers, who should all feel safe in aircraft across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Air Line Pilots\u2019 Association supports my bill, which have said that it would be a step in the right direction of protecting our pilots and our passengers. You\u2019ll also be aware, ultimately, that offenders will give power, like other countries have, to those who have requested complete prohibition. I think that\u2019s a bridge too far in this House tonight. But we have the power today to do something to deter these incredibly dangerous acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EWe need to support our pilots, our air traffic controllers, our emergency staff, and our law enforcement agencies to do what they need to do, to continue to transport, to save, and to protect New Zealanders. We need to do all we can to ensure they are operating in a safe work environment. Those offenders who continue to put lives at risk through pointing high-powered lasers at aircrafts have to be dealt with, and understand those circumstances. My high-power lasers offenders bill will do this by not only deterring those offenders but also by raising awareness about an issue which poses a great risk to pilots and passengers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002228512839dcea46d0b24dfc3edfda52d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228512839dcea46d0b24dfc3edfda52d4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. And I just remind members that they should not be reading speeches. I didn\u2019t interrupt the member, but really its members\u2019 day, these are their bills, and they should be able to deliver a 10-minute speech on their bill without actually reading it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226dfe5de86731432989680bd518b311ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dfe5de86731432989680bd518b311ab\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, let me congratulate the member on having this bill drawn. Many people can spend time in this House without ever having a bill drawn, and I\u2019m aware that it\u2019s the second time he\u2019s been so lucky. It\u2019s probably unfortunate that the bill he\u2019s had drawn is one that really, again, is something that this House could probably spend a lot of its time much better on. Oh, that life could be so simple, that we simply would solve a problem by doubling a sentence. Life just doesn\u2019t really work like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EFirstly, I think it\u2019s probably quite important, because those that were listening to that speech may have thought, \u201CWell, this is really, really serious.\u201D In fact, the comment was made, \u201CThey\u2019re getting away with murder.\u201D Well, I think that, probably to say the least, would be overstating things somewhat. But, again, the member is building a case for his bill, so perhaps it is understandable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut perhaps for the sake of those who are listening tonight, you would ask, \u201CWhy don\u2019t we just ban these things if they\u2019re so bad? What are they here for? Why are they in the country anyway?\u201D. Well, they do actually have quite a legitimate use. There\u2019s a range of things that these lasers, high-powered lasers, are actually bought for and are legitimate. Like so many of the things we have in our world in the hands of the sensible, the law abiding, the sober, these things are actually perfectly benign tools. But, of course, once you start regulating, once you start putting too many restrictions on them, you\u2019ll be depriving many of those very same people I\u2019ve discussed of the pleasure, the need, or the advantages of these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EFor example, one of the primary uses or one of the, I suppose, recreational uses is hunting. Now, for those of us of my era, who grew up with .303 rifles, who trod the bush of the West Coast, we even looked down our nose at those that actually had telescopic sights. A real bloke, in my day, was someone who could bring down a deer at a thousand yards on a dark night, shot from the hip, or that was how the subsequent tale in the local hostelry may have had it. I may be exaggerating things just a little, but certainly you\u2019ll get the idea that in the world I grew up in real blokes didn\u2019t use such tools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, the world has moved on, and you\u2019ll understand that there are those for whom time is a little more precious, that when you do go hunting, you get a hunting block, you may not have the time that people did to spend weeks hunting down the best stag, hunting down nice back steaks to take and to share on a\u2014it wouldn\u2019t have been a barbecue because, again, in our day, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273a0f6959f694954844b347e0681b05c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t include me in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fba4b574bf243458772b00ba79b54cb\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014barbecues\u2014\u201Cour\u201D, did I say? I wasn\u2019t looking at you at the time, Madam Speaker; I was looking around the House, perhaps further down the back I might get someone nearer to our time. But, anyway, barbecues were, again, somewhat of a latter\u2014they were seen as something for people who today might be wearing lycra; in those days it would have been the very people who were in those hunting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAs you\u2019ll know I like to contextualise\u2014some of the best work that I do in this House. But I\u2019m going back to hunting and the use of lasers for hunting, just to remind you as to how we got to the point that we have right now. So these lasers now are attached to these magazines so that when the game\u2014the whatever it is\u2014that the person is recreationally in our bush for, doing their bit, I might say, for ecology, bearing in mind that we are a country that the more things we shoot in our bush that don\u2019t have feathers, we are doing our bit for ecology. So, people do use these weapons, although in another time they may perhaps not have been quite as proudly talking about these things. But, anyway, coming back to the legitimate use of these\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022938520022e5548b6b6b7393297001f94\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That would be good\u2014that would be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225907bde8a7274907a5ee6eb4e04ce974\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014very tools for which we are now spending our time in this House on members\u2019 night. So that is just pointing out that this is something that there is a legitimate use for. Next time anyone who is enjoying a piece of back steak from the backblocks of the Tararuas or the Paparoa on the West Coast, they will know there\u2019s a very good likelihood that one of these very things has been used for that purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMoving on, there are other uses, too: for finding faults with fibre-optic cables. Anyone driving around Wellington at the moment will see that there is actually quite a large number of roadworks. The need to dig up under streets is minimised by the use of these lasers. So, again, what I\u2019m talking about is the legitimate use. As I said, if we\u2019re going to talk about why\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022471a1c3d1900410cace899c97a00f5cc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that\u2019s very interesting, but the bill isn\u2019t actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d0226fcd924b7d8a4c3db60784c296\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, no, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e337d9da458b4b908a0a2b7d39baabcc\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014about the use of them for anything other than pointing in pilots\u2019 eyes. So could we come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df50f6a1ad64493183f9e4d43a61b821\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but, again, Madam Speaker, it\u2019s important to understand that without defining\u2014I know, Madam Speaker, you would have been a debater in your day\u2014what it is we\u2019re actually using here I think is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut I do take the time; it is perhaps time to move on to perhaps the other\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225791c50cd53943349f98faad7feaca47\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: To the bill\u2014to the bill before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd6730e4c628496a9a27ab032f2d8842\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014parts of the bill. Just, again, we are talking about the definition of this high-powered pointer. It\u2019s a device that in the director-general\u2019s opinion is the kind commonly known as that laser pointer. If one looks at clause 9 of the bill, you will see that is in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAlso, another part of the definition is that it is \u201Cbattery operated\u201D. That\u2019s an important part\u2014the \u201Cbattery operated\u201D part\u2014and what does make this high-powered laser more sinister is that, of course, it makes it highly mobile, which, again, is why it becomes the tool of the sort of criminals who will actually hang around those places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, I think it\u2019s important to note that those who often talk about these lasers, they think that it\u2019s got to hit the eye of the victim; it doesn\u2019t. If one of these lasers is actually shone into a cockpit, the whole of the cockpit actually flares up. It doesn\u2019t have to be aimed; they actually can be quite damaging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo it is legitimate that we have the current existing legal regime around these lasers. But, of course, what this member\u2019s bill seeks to do quite simply is just double the penalties. In doing that we should discuss whether penalties are actually the legitimate tool to prevent crime. Any criminologist will tell you that, actually, the best crime-prevention tool is a belief that you will get caught. That\u2019s why when the police conduct\u2014and you, Madam Speaker, as a previous police Minister will know the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf888f5699641079d18be27e40ef4e8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t bring me into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b99da0b0ff114592a13c6de5de817cbe\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014attention that goes on road policing: making people understand and believe that they\u2019ll be caught is as an effective tool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo anything that we do do, if we\u2019re going to take this\u2014and it is a serious issue, I do acknowledge that this is, and I would never belittle this on behalf of particularly airline pilots, those who are victims. But we owe it to those people that are victims, we owe it to airline pilots, to be a little bit more serious about this than merely to say that we\u2019re going to actually double the penalty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhat we do have to do is actually ensure that these people who have nothing better to do that actually go and use these high-powered lasers against aircraft, against pilots, actually believe they\u2019re going to get caught. That\u2019s actually where we could be focusing our areas, ensuring that we get better powers to ensure that we can actually catch these people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, again, I go back to this idea of merely thinking that by doubling a penalty, all of a sudden we can leave this House tonight, or when this bill does wend its way through the process, and all of a sudden we\u2019ve solved a problem. The problem there is that we will ignore some other tools that are absolutely essential for those who are potentially thinking of doing this extremely dangerous act. And in giving the protection to the pilots that pilots do need, aviators do need, and, as we heard, those who are in air traffic control do need, we need to ensure that we don\u2019t just focus on doubling a penalty, and that we actually look at what we can do to ensure that those offenders that do this will believe that they\u2019re going to get caught, and that will be the safest thing that we can do. Thank you. In doing that, I oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u002282aaf39c4551476a95a2663b7326b4b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282aaf39c4551476a95a2663b7326b4b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E The contribution that we just heard from Greg O\u2019Connor may well have been started with the words \u201CWe don\u2019t take aviation safety seriously.\u201D because every single day tens of thousands of New Zealanders get on an aircraft and put their life in the hands of the skilled pilot and flight crew to keep them safe. It\u2019s actually been an incredible story in the way in which aviation safety has improved over the last 30 years and I just did not get any sense from the Government as to how little things in the aviation sector can make a massive difference to life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just ask members opposite who have said they\u2019re going to oppose this bill: do they really believe that the current law, where a person with a laser beam can bring down an aircraft with many hundreds of people\u2014that the penalties that currently exist on our law books are fair and appropriate? I congratulate my colleague Hamish Walker for having the audacity and the good sense to introduce this bill to the House and make plain on the law books of New Zealand that messing around with the safety of aircraft carrying hundreds of people is totally inappropriate and deserves the sorts of penalties that are proposed in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI was surprised to read of the number of incidents that have involved pilots suffering from attacks from such laser beams. They number in their thousands internationally. There are reports of pilots being blinded for 45 minutes as a consequence of a laser pointer. What member of Parliament in this House wants to be in an aircraft where the pilot has been blinded for 45 minutes? That is playing with death and the Parliament needs to treat it with that sort of seriousness, as does my parliamentary colleague. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also interesting to note what the other jurisdictions do. If we look at Australia, if we look at the United States, if we look at Canada, if we look at the UK\u2014every one of those jurisdictions has tougher penalties because of this new risk. And yet we have a Government over there that says, \u201COh, we know better. We think this is a minor safety issue.\u201D This week, I was flying from Nelson to Wellington. I was invited very politely by the captain and co-pilot to sit up front in the aircraft, and that was a privilege to do so. You get the opportunity to talk to them about the issues facing our pilots in New Zealand and while the Government members may think this is a bit of a joke, actually, the pilots who sit at the front of our aircraft every single day and take the safety of the travelling public so seriously do want this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI also want to reflect on the broader view where this Government\u2019s out of touch\u2014and that is that this is a Government that is fundamentally soft on crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e488a0602bd4a7997288e8ff2574a06\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, get lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a6758e066d44c89c718ed6c3a22e3e\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: They are soft on crime and are soft on gangs and I invite the member that\u2019s interjected to look at what\u2019s going on in places like Hawke\u2019s Bay and look at what\u2019s going on in Tauranga. Even in my own community, I\u2019m seeing the impacts of the Government\u2019s policy of not holding people to account for when they do bad or dumb stuff. I just say it\u2019s flawed. I say the view that you heard from Greg O\u2019Connor represents Government policy, and that is, \u201CActually, we don\u2019t think that fines or penalties on people work.\u201D We\u2019ve even got this Government saying that people that commit offences have got to have the freedom to vote, and I\u2019m going to debate a bill on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWell, I say to the Labour Government and their coalition parties they are out of touch with New Zealanders. They want a Government that will hold people to account for doing reckless, stupid things, and pointing a laser at an aircraft is a stupid, reckless thing which this Parliament should take seriously and should impose the penalties that are appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0c37ebe9e449baa55c90d160f58a20\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t know what this bill is about, do you? You\u2019re not even talking about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee5acbc91b04f9d97c7b911058dbafc\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I say to the member from New Zealand First I\u2019m absolutely talking about the bill. It is about the penalties for people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002205031ff0309d477fa00150d896895986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205031ff0309d477fa00150d896895986\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00228c6d35974e7b418db2fbd9358b11f18a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c6d35974e7b418db2fbd9358b11f18a\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on the High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill. I think it\u2019s important that we spell out exactly what this bill proposes to do. So the bill amends existing offence provisions and increases the penalties for use and possession of high-powered lasers and the bill doubles the maximum penalties to six months\u2019 imprisonment or a fine of $4,000. It also amends clause 9 to make that any such offences committed with high-powered light lasers are punishable by up to 14 years\u2019 imprisonment\u201414 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat I would like to point to is that when the National Party was last in Government and I was a diligent worker for police, I remember well when the introduction of legislation happened to introduce new penalties and new offences for the use of high-powered lasers. And since 2014, since that legislation has been introduced, the problem has got worse\u2014the problem has got worse. Instances of misuse have escalated dramatically since that legislation was introduced. The penalties as they stand were not applied despite a record number of incidents. So increasing the penalties for possession is highly unlikely to have an impact, which is the desired one from those opposite. And so the rationale here is that if something\u2019s not working, let\u2019s do it more\u2014and some analogies can probably be drawn with the leadership, but I won\u2019t go there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe third one in terms of increasing penalties\u2014let\u2019s look at the psychology of increasing a penalty. Do you think the person sitting in the car at Wellington Airport who has the high-powered laser beam pointing at the air traffic control has got Radio New Zealand on with The House, listening to that\u2014that law was changed and the penalties have doubled\u2014and suddenly flicks it off and puts it away? They don\u2019t; they do not know. So that is why increasing penalties blindly has zero impact upon offending rates or the outcome and that is why we oppose this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s have a look at the other issue that came up when I was working at police. The other issue that comes up when you are just increasing penalties is it is actually pretty tricky to catch someone pointing a laser. The ability to intercept someone and find where that beam is coming from is a tricky job, and wouldn\u2019t you be far better off targeting illegal online sales? Wouldn\u2019t that be a better point to intercept them? Because, if we\u2019ve already introduced\u2014as we have done\u2014the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order in 2013, which states that hand-held high-power laser pointers are prohibited to import without a consent from the Ministry of Health, shouldn\u2019t we be looking at how people are getting their hands on them without having that permit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would argue that we should be taking a closer look at online sales, and that would be a far more effective tool to try and curb some of the dangerous incidents that are happening instead of trying to threaten people with increased penalties and 14 years in prison. So I think that this has good intent\u2014this bill\u2014the idea of making people safer. The idea of giving pilots and air traffic control staff the confidence that their wellbeing and safety are looked after is a good idea, but the execution of this bill, the idea of how it\u2019s going to be carried out by threatening people with 14 years in prison, is doomed to fail, because it has failed since the initial legislation was introduced under the National Government previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo, looking at that, that is the case for why we believe that this is not a good bill for addressing this problem\u2014that there needs to be a far more thorough exploration of what this problem is\u2014and if we look back into the history of where this comes from, I can name another bill that was exactly the same, and that was car crushing. It\u2019s the idea of coming to the end of a solution and scaring people with an outcome without actually analysing what the problem was. How many cars did we crush in New Zealand under that legislation? I think we did one or two, and the time it took the Parliament to pass the legislation and to implement a bill that had zero impact on the problem was a real waste of time and effort and energy. If we\u2019re serious about turning things around, we need to look at how people are getting their hands on these, not just standing over them and threatening them with imprisonment. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6f8a003083b40d588d969f4443fa396\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6f8a003083b40d588d969f4443fa396\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Darroch Ball and introduce him to Hamish Walker!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00226e80ff617cbc452780f6a074d556b0a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e80ff617cbc452780f6a074d556b0a0\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s right\u2014Hamish Walker. It\u2019s getting increasingly frustrating. Every time I stand up and speak in this House, it\u2019s quite often that I say that the National Party haven\u2019t done the research, but what\u2019s quite disappointing about this one is that the member himself, who is the author of this bill, quite frankly hasn\u2019t done any research, and neither has Nick Smith. Nick Smith stood up there and he said that this Government doesn\u2019t want to have any legislation or laws against people shining lights into aircraft and helicopters\u2014there already is. There already is, and this bill isn\u2019t addressing that. This bill isn\u2019t addressing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e48e572f6164612b102cdd2f75c7480\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: It just increases the penalties\u2014read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225733828ac4924985a641a20dd72e0096\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Now Mr Macindoe is getting on to the bandwagon. He doesn\u2019t know what he\u2019s talking about. This bill, if they look at the general policy statement right at the start, is talking about the possession\u2014the possession of the lasers\u2014not about the fact of pointing a laser into the aeroplane, or the aircraft, or the helicopter. They\u2019ve already got provisions for that in the Crimes Act\u2014it\u2019s called the Crimes Act 1961, section 270.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENow, the reason why I know that is that I did a little bit of research and people have been charged under that section of the Crimes Act for shining lasers into aeroplanes and into helicopters. They already do\u2014they already do. I\u2019ve got examples written down here. Someone laser-struck four aircraft and was charged with four counts of endangering transport under the Crimes Act 2012\u2014they already were charged. Now, what\u2019s the penalty for that? What\u2019s the maximum penalty for that, Mr Walker? Already 14 years in prison. Now we\u2019ve got people standing up here from the Opposition\u2014call themselves members of Parliament\u2014they don\u2019t even know what they\u2019re talking about when they stand up. Another example: two counts of reckless disregard under endangering transport in the section in 2016. It\u2019s unbelievable that they don\u2019t even know that when they stand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThis bill is doing nothing but increasing penalties for the possession of lasers. What Mr Walker failed to do was mention that, although there were 717 laser strikes on individual aircrafts or helicopters, or the like, and 228 last year\u2014228 different examples last year. Now he wants to increase the penalties under possession. How many people were prosecuted for possession of the laser from the 228 incidents? How many, Mr Doocey\u2014guess? Zero\u2014zero people were prosecuted for the possession of lasers last year, and only four since 2015. This individual wants to stand up here and say that this side of the House is soft on crime and that we\u2019re not serious with it because we don\u2019t want to see an increase in penalties, but no one\u2019s been prosecuted with it yet\u2014no one has been prosecuted with it yet\u2014four instances since 2015. And how many have had the maximum penalty, Mr Walker\u2014how many have had the maximum penalty? Zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got an individual who, by the standards of the backbench of the National Party, is quite a genius, and he stands up and all he does is look into the Summary Offences Act 1981, goes straight to the possession of high-power laser pointers, goes to the sentences, sees $2,000\u2014\u201CI know what, let\u2019s double it\u201D, goes to the imprisonment, three months in prison\u2014\u201CI know what, let\u2019s double it\u201D. And he thinks that that is going to go anywhere near solving any of the problems with the 717 incidents since 2015.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENot only that, let\u2019s get one thing straight: in 2014, when this original piece of legislation was introduced by the National Party\u2014by the National Party\u2014it clearly has done nothing to touch the sides of stopping. They had not one, not two, but three years, at least, to have a look at the lack of effectiveness of this piece of legislation. But really, as Mr O\u2019Connor actually quite rightly pointed out in his speech, this has got nothing really to do with the legislation. It\u2019s got to do with the enforcement. If we\u2019ve got 717 incidents and zero prosecutions last year, it has nothing to do with the legislation and it has absolutely nothing to do with the level of punishment that can be meted out by the way, because there were none meted out last year at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI do want to say that it\u2019s no secret, and it shouldn\u2019t be a surprise to anybody, that this entire House\u2014whether it be that side or this side\u2014find the issue of laser pointing into the aircraft a very dangerous one, a very serious one, and we do need to do something about it. This bill isn\u2019t doing it, because it\u2019s not addressing the right part of the issue. We do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002272574b2f27754d7db6dbc23e32113c37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272574b2f27754d7db6dbc23e32113c37\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and take a call on this, the High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill. Can I acknowledge the sponsor of the bill, Hamish Walker, who put this bill into the ballot, and it has been picked from the ballot. He is responding\u2014and the last caller highlighted the fact that there\u2019s been 117 cases where the legislation that the National Party introduced has actually been used in terms of action taken\u2014[Interruption] Well, if the incidents have been recorded, then obviously there\u2019s an issue around the use of high-powered lasers. The issue exists there, it sits there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn response to the last speaker, Darroch Ball, he\u2019s very upset by the fact that this Government\u2019s\u2014the narrative now is up, and the perception amongst Kiwis is that it\u2019s soft on crime. It is soft on crime. Greg O\u2019Connor raised the point that this bill\u2019s been brought to the House and it\u2019s a waste of the House\u2019s time. Let me tell you what the waste of the House\u2019s time is: the Ombudsman\u2019s bill, the bill that this Government brought to this House that affects a grand total of three people in New Zealand, right? And I\u2019d put to the Government this: if you were to survey every Kiwi that uses and has access to a commercial carrier, or is a regular flyer, and you ask them and you said to them, \u201CWhat would you rather see: tougher penalties around someone that may use a high-powered laser to interfere or interrupt the functions of a pilot of your aircraft or the Ombudsman\u2019s bill?\u201D, I can tell you which one they\u2019ll be picking. It won\u2019t be the Ombudsman\u2019s bill, right? So you\u2019re on the wrong side of the argument, trust me. And let me raise another point\u2014[Interruption] He\u2019s laughing. He\u2019s laughing about it, and I\u2019m actually shocked that the Government has not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141349b080ee449b8ed52b889854b61c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You\u2019ve had your five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747ed555e72043039bbc70e5e00f25d3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014chosen to support this bill, because it would have been a chance for them to do something positive and send a positive message to people that may be thinking about interfering with commercial flights or our police Eagle helicopter. It might have been a chance for the Government to say, \u201CYes, we think that\u2019s a good idea to signal and get behind Hamish Walker.\u201D and to say, \u201CWe\u2019re taking this seriously. You are going to face a stiff penalty or sentence if you engage in this. You could face up to six months in jail.\u201D I actually think that putting a commercial airline at risk with 200 to 300 passengers on it is worth six months in jail. I do believe that. I think that if someone is caught doing that, it\u2019s worth six months in jail, if they\u2019re caught doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022126df69b38b847e8a81e59a9d7b55796\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s worth 14 years already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022098646d58e1842f9b046251ef68e107e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I say to Darroch Ball\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137f46ffa4b04688aeec4318d410515f\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 14 years already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0eb8f13a104a0caee7dbf4e063914e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Darroch Ball, I\u2019m speaking to you. Don\u2019t ignore me. You\u2019ve had your five minutes. Let the guy have a go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b59ae7d0c3f4230b74d9083f0f1865b\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Well, clearly he\u2019s not listening, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9728837ff3d403ea571964c99ab0ad0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he doesn\u2019t have to listen to you; he has the floor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228def17b2d2cc47199a2e58e54abfb783\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. And you\u2019re right, I\u2019m not listening to him. I gave up on that a long time ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe other point that I wanted to raise is the police Eagle. I just wanted to use a very quick example. When I was a young police officer in Auckland Central, back in 1990 probably, I was called to a job where a woman had been calling for assistance in the central city. I\u2019d arrived there with a couple of my colleagues. We were looking for her. We were searching yards that were unlit, and we were having no success at all in actually finding her. In fact, we were about to give up because we thought it might have been a false call, when all of a sudden the Eagle helicopter appeared with Lou Grant. And can I just acknowledge and remember Lou Grant and Alastair Sampson and Ross Harvey, who, very sadly, we lost serving in that Eagle helicopter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t remember what the candle power was\u2014it\u2019s about 20,000, 30,000 candlelight power. They just lit up this enclosed yard and the offender immediately became obvious behind a skip bin with this girl who, at the time, he was trying to sexually assault. I can tell you right now, even back then, the Eagle guys\u2014and I want to acknowledge our Eagle staff today that do an outstanding job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn fact, the Eagle in Christchurch was subjected to a high-powered laser just in the last couple of weeks. They said that interference from the ground was just as risky to them in the work that they\u2019re doing as any type of interference from the air. So this is a serious issue. It\u2019s not something to be laughed at. It\u2019s not something to be scoffed at. It\u2019s not something to be trivialised. It\u2019s a serious issue that could end in tragedy. I want to again acknowledge Hamish Walker and the fact that he\u2019s brought a serious bill to this House to say that we are going to react, as the Speaker said, to a rising number of these incidents, and we\u2019re going to send a very clear message that we\u2019re going to increase the penalty around it. The Government needs to do a little bit of soul searching and come back and decide whether or not they should be supporting this bill. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00220ea493f9f5ea4815a118fa7605518698\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ea493f9f5ea4815a118fa7605518698\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Minister for Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I just wanted to say congratulations to Hamish Walker on having this bill pulled. I know that the odds are against it and it\u2019s always pretty good, particularly if you\u2019re a first-term MP, to get a member\u2019s bill drawn from the ballot. Of course, it is also quite disappointing when it gets voted down on first reading, which is probably what\u2019s about to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis is an appropriate topic for a member\u2019s bill. It\u2019s got a very tight focus. It deals with a real problem, and I do think it is a real problem. I agree with Mark Mitchell that it is serious and it needs to be taken seriously. It\u2019s a case of emerging technology that\u2019s being used and abused and is putting people\u2019s lives at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI have a personal story of this, actually, not in an aeroplane but just at home. Someone was shining one of these lasers through the windows of my house late one night, and the risk, of course, was that it would blind either me or my wife, who were both up in the house at that moment. Of course, we could sort of identify roughly the position of where the person was who was shining the laser into the house, and I sort of went out on to the deck and the person disappeared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the thing. If that person had known that the penalty was double, would they have still done it? My answer would be \u201CWell, yes.\u201D That person who was shining that laser and didn\u2019t actually know what the existing penalty was wouldn\u2019t have known that doubling would have made any difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221de211bf3c27495ba4b5db19ac57b58d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know that, James?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01d1a22878a4e2f824b41392b1dcda6\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: So when you have\u2014well, I didn\u2019t get a chance to ask him, and that speaks to the question around enforceability, Mr Mitchell, but I\u2019ll come back to the question around enforceability. The issue with this bill is that every time you do something like this, you have to ask yourself the question: if we do this, will it fix the problem? And I\u2019m afraid that this bill fails on that test. Just doubling the penalties is not going to stop people from shining lasers up at pilots. Getting rid of the lasers, that would stop people from shining them into aeroplanes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe other issue, of course, is the issue of enforceability, which is we can have these reported incidents when they\u2019re reported from an aeroplane, but you\u2019re not actually going to get a sense of whether or not you can actually catch that person at all. And the fact that there have been 117 incidents reported but no enforcement of the existing law suggests that merely doubling the rates wouldn\u2019t improve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003112bb85583467b41279ec145a06acb8a17000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226db89cdad45e41c3804020c0d0fb471a\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 11 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ad0425866ccf4385a066e7509b2f9878\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 12 March 2020)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9629feb38904c9f889720a4520c1551\u0022\u003ETaxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f926a9cb41f428bafa292d50e11ca23\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244d25a2b76cf411794cd732ae8e12f49\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to KiwiSaver Act 2006\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddbc6d0defbd493d84a7533fd33eaba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddbc6d0defbd493d84a7533fd33eaba6\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I assume this is the part that is relevant to the excellent submission we received from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40116e2fb2148a28f3089412e4d33da\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure he\u2019s read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222144cf1f2626453886989e8b072cb773\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I sat on the select committee in fact, so I\u2019m doing more work than the Minister\u2019s doing, but that\u2019s not a challenge\u2014but that\u2019s not a challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow, returning to Part 1 of the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill, the issue I want to discuss is the excellent submission we had at the Finance and Expenditure Committee from Tim Fairhall, who appeared before the select committee. He is a remarkable young New Zealander, a Down syndrome person, who has worked full time, five days a week and has taken a full part in New Zealand society. But he acknowledges that he will unlikely live to 65 years of age. He has a brother living, I think, in Italy, from memory, his best friend lives in Canada, and he wants to use his KiwiSaver for the opportunity to go and travel in his latter years. Certainly that is a plan that he intends to undertake before he is 65 years of age. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I know that the Minister has accepted an amendment to KiwiSaver to allow people with illnesses such as this\u2014or with conditions, I should say, such as this\u2014to have early withdrawal of KiwiSaver funds for a person that doesn\u2019t expect to live to 65. My question to the Minister is quite a serious one: how will he now monitor applications? How will applications be received? Who will be the decision maker? Because whilst we\u2019ve moved, and the Parliament I think is fully in agreement with cases such as Tim Fairhall, we do not want to see this become a loophole by which people can choose to withdraw from KiwiSaver arguing, factually incorrectly, that they may not live till 65 years of age. So my question is quite a serious one. I want to know what work is being done now around the approval process. I want to know who actually makes the decision. How does a person who is in the situation similar to Mr Fairhall\u2014how does he or she make an application? What supporting documentation would they be expected to present to the decision maker, who the Minister is going to tell us about shortly, so that this becomes something legitimately used for people such as Mr Fairhall and not a loophole for people to try and extract themselves early from KiwiSaver for some nefarious-type reasons that they might have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t take further time in this committee stage, but I look forward to the Minister rising to answer those quite genuine questions I\u2019ve raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f13febec697e4681b3b5808a7f1526d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f13febec697e4681b3b5808a7f1526d7\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Fantastic, and lovely to be here this morning, and nice to see the House pepper-potted with a whole lot of Ministers at this early hour of the day. It\u2019s very good, contributing strongly to the economy, obviously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, I wanted to deal with this issue around clause 14 of the bill. This is the amendment around the application date for KiwiSaver members. I think you will be aware that clause 14 would allow KiwiSaver members to change their contribution rate by giving notice to their scheme provider or to IRD. Currently, members can only make changes through the employer. As you\u2019re aware, one of the things we want to do is we want to make sure that people have the opportunity to contribute as much as possible to their KiwiSaver over time. We\u2019ve had these artificial restrictions around the different rates that they can contribute at, we have the minimum of 3 percent, and then we have these jumps up to 8 percent. One of the big changes that we made was to actually change the rates so that it is much more permissive in terms of 3, 4, 6, 8 percent and up to 10 percent of gross salaries. The big issue that we were trying to address in the Finance and Expenditure Committee is this issue around how you make sure that you can change your rate easily. Hopefully, in many cases, that means a move upwards in terms of the rate, so a higher contribution. So when people get to their retirement, they\u2019ve got more banked in their KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the big issue here was the issue around the process that KiwiSaver providers had to go through. At the moment, it was very, very restrictive because they could only do it through an employer. That meant that there were times when the employer was in a situation, or their administration might not have been so good, where there was still the lag time that went back to the IRD. In fact, I\u2019ve met many people who have been in a similar situation. I\u2019m going to talk particularly about a lady called Georgina Burgess, who actually had a system where she invested in a KiwiSaver scheme, she wanted to change her rate, and she had a great deal of difficulty actually trying to find out what a rate was. But the process to go through her employer was one that made it very, very difficult for her to actually achieve it, and it actually ended up with her changing her KiwiSaver provider. It was actually only at that point, even after making inquiries of her KiwiSaver provider, that she could determine the rate that she was on. I think this is a really important aspect of the bill. I think the flexibility that this brings in is a very, very important part. I think, in terms of future-proofing the system and the KiwiSaver provisions going forward, it\u2019s a very, very substantial part to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo in terms of the specific requirements, the change would require IRD to pass on a member\u2019s request to change their contribution rate to the employer. So if a person goes to the IRD directly, then the IRD has this obligation back to the employer, because, of course, that\u2019s where all the deductions take place, at source. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere is this issue around the employer needing to action it. That is a question that we need to make sure that there is adequate provision for in the IRD\u2014that the system in place does actually mean that if someone has gone directly to the IRD, that the employer does make that change. I think that\u2019s an important aspect, and it\u2019d be quite interesting to get the Minister\u2019s view on that, in terms of making sure that there is certainty around those instructions being passed on. I do note the change doesn\u2019t take place until April 2022, or an earlier date, but that is crucial if we are to move to this more flexible process\u2014that in fact we have the institutional arrangement in place to make sure those people\u2019s wishes, the KiwiSaver depositors\u2019 wishes, are actually carried through and implemented appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222fae92b363264177ab69a22a750a5cbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fae92b363264177ab69a22a750a5cbd\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to just follow on from the contribution of the Rt Hon David Carter, because I absolutely understand the need to try and, I guess, accommodate the likes of Tim Fairhall, his requirements, and clause 12B of the bill does that. But the really interesting challenge with this, and it was mentioned by David Carter in his contribution, is exactly how you determine that. In my time in this unusual business, I\u2019ve had people come into my office who have, in fact, cashed their KiwiSaver in for the very reason that this clause is being inserted. They have gone off and done their thing, with a doctor\u2019s certificate telling them they\u2019re not going to live any longer, and five years later they\u2019re still around and they\u2019ve got no cash. It\u2019s a very real issue. It happens with life insurance as well. People take their life insurance out, go off and spend it. I suppose it gets back to David Seymour\u2019s euthanasia bill, to some extent. But it is a very interesting challenge, because you take your life savings, off you go, and then, lo and behold, you\u2019re still around. That\u2019s a very real challenge for this as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI spent some years as the chairman of Special Olympics, which has a whole lot of members\u2014in fact, thousands and thousands of members\u2014in exactly the same situation as Tim Fairhall, who have a potentially life-shortening condition, who have a job, and who are working away like every other New Zealander and contributing to KiwiSaver but have the opportunity to withdraw it early for this reason. I think it\u2019s going to be very challenging to establish that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s equally as challenging\u2014and in the Special Olympics case, it\u2019s very challenging\u2014to understand the degree of, for example, in their case, intellectual disability: which qualifies as a special Olympian and which doesn\u2019t? This bill raises this very same issue, and you can see why for years the Inland Revenue or the taxation department have grappled with this situation, because it\u2019s a very difficult situation to overcome. I, like David Carter, will be very interested to see what the Minister\u2019s view of this is and how it might be managed, because it will be critical. It will be tested for all sorts of reasons, and it is a very real challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI mean, getting on to KiwiSaver itself, I think that KiwiSaver is a great asset to New Zealand and to those people who are part of it, and I urge all New Zealanders to be part of it, but, of course, it is, in challenging financial times, the first thing people tend to look to to get themselves out of financial difficulty or to make their lives more comfortable. Through our offices, we get numerous, I guess, requests\u2014some of them quite angry\u2014to withdraw their KiwiSaver or access their KiwiSaver to keep themselves going. So I think it is important that we have rules around it, although for those of my age who have got a KiwiSaver sitting around now and you\u2019re in the high-risk zone, she\u2019s not too good. I think you probably would\u2019ve dropped 20 percent in the last few weeks, so I\u2019m hoping I don\u2019t get booted out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc73c33525c45ce89ebfac7dde6cde5\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Are you watching it regularly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49123604a4d4a3b807f28164cd9e42c\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not, and I hope I don\u2019t get booted out of here in September, because I might need the cash! But it would be tricky.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EActually, just on that point, it\u2019s another interesting point because in my earlier days, I did chair a superannuation fund. The superannuation rules in New Zealand have changed so often. I know this is just slightly off the point, but it\u2019s very relevant to the point\u2014very relevant to the point. They had a terminal date, so when you left the superannuation fund, you took your cash. Of course, right now, you would not be wanting to take your cash out of a superannuation fund, were you part of it, and so KiwiSaver has got to have that flexibility as you get out the other end of it as well. So there\u2019s a whole lot of, I guess, very interesting situations that arise as a result of\u2014I was going to say \u201Cfiddling\u201D, but I shouldn\u2019t say that\u2014tinkering with this kind of legislation, because it is a tricky thing to do. But I do accept that this is a very good effort to achieve a result for Tim Fairhall and all of his friends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to go on any longer on the issue, but it is a tricky issue and I congratulate the Parliament on it if we can get this through in one piece and make it work. I think it\u2019s a well-worthwhile piece that\u2019s added to this bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022db18cdd3f9b34045aa0f2352eabd6c95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db18cdd3f9b34045aa0f2352eabd6c95\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Look, there\u2019s a couple of questions that came up. I\u2019m happy to answer them, but I\u2019m only really keen to answer each of the issues only once. I don\u2019t want to waste the Committee\u2019s time, and I hope the members on the other side won\u2019t as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EFirst of all, Mr McKelvie, I think that of any member in this House, you\u2019re probably going to be OK when you retire. You know, I don\u2019t want to cast aspersions, but you\u2019re going to be OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, let\u2019s acknowledge that KiwiSaver was set up as a retirement scheme for New Zealanders. There is no doubt about it, and that\u2019s how the vast majority of New Zealanders do use their KiwiSaver. Let\u2019s also acknowledge, though, that there are a couple of situations under which New Zealanders are able to access their KiwiSaver funds before the age of 65. One of those is extreme hardship, and they\u2019ve got to be able to prove that before they can withdraw their KiwiSaver funds, and the burden of proof is quite significant and I think it\u2019s quite robust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBecause of Tim Fairhall\u2019s case, this has come before Parliament, and we have agreed with this case. Again, I think that the system for approving someone to withdraw their KiwiSaver funds because they can prove they\u2019re not going to reach the age of 65 is very robust as well. The proposed legislation would create a list of life-shortening conditions, and then it would be up to the KiwiSaver member to provide medical proof that they have those conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI take Mr McKelvie\u2019s point that it may well be that someone does present with a life-shortening condition and then they get better. I\u2019m also well aware of Mr McKelvie\u2019s point that life insurance will also pay out if someone has one of these life-shortening conditions\u2014for example, terminal cancer\u2014and if they then go on to have a full life, fantastic and that is awesome. I suspect that that would be a very small minority of cases, but I really don\u2019t think that this is a clause in KiwiSaver legislation that people will seek to game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EI really do think that the conditions we\u2019ve placed around this\u2014i.e., medical proof that you have one of these life-shortening conditions\u2014is, again, pretty hard to game or to use in a fraudulent manner. It would require, first of all, the person to have fraudulent intentions; second of all, for the medical profession to act in a fraudulent manner. Again, I just don\u2019t think that that will be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EWith regard to the Hon David Carter\u2019s point around\u2014sorry, the Hon Carter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e366013542344aefab3dd65b205a1999\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Who do you apply to was my question as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212424cfad7e94855ae44ef6bc02477aa\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, who do you apply to\u2014this will be run through the Inland Revenue (IR). It\u2019ll be run through the IR.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMr Bayly, your point around KiwiSaver contributions, when they go up and down: as you\u2019re probably well aware, sitting on the select committee and being right over Business Transformation\u2014release four coming out in Easter of this year\u2014that includes KiwiSaver. It is a massive, massive undertaking: $1.4 trillion worth of funds, I think, are being transferred from the old system to the new system, but as a result of that, the Inland Revenue is going to have a much greater oversight of the whole KiwiSaver scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo what we are saying is you provide your information to Inland Revenue. They then go to the employer, and our recommendation is that in the next possible\u2014or practical, I should say\u2014pay round, the employer will enter that information and make the changes. So, for example, if you provide information to IR and your next pay day is tomorrow, then I don\u2019t think it is practical to expect them to change the rate within 24 hours, but if the next pay day is in two weeks\u2019 time, then I suspect that that is a practical time to have that change reflected in your payslip and in your KiwiSaver contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOne thing I would say is the level of data and oversight that Inland Revenue will have under Business Transformation is significantly greater than it has now, also keeping in mind, as also mentioned, that this doesn\u2019t come in until 1 April 2022. Inland Revenue has plenty of time to work with employers to make sure that the processes for changing someone\u2019s KiwiSaver contributions are robust and are done in a timely manner, and I expect any wrinkles will be ironed out well before 1 April 2022. I hope that answers both the members\u2019 questions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f136210d29234e58b3e424b688b46148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f136210d29234e58b3e424b688b46148\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E One issue I wanted to just talk about was the student loan arrangements, particularly under clause 45B, amending section 72. They relate to custodial institutions as well. But this is the issue around student loan deductions from scheduler, election-day, and casual agricultural income, and also the exemption threshold for student loan repayments. This bill has quite a lot to do with student loan issues, actually, in terms of making sure that they are appropriately dealt with and are actually slightly more flexible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f606babe90d4ecaaecd6869460b2d13\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s Part 2, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206e40ecf1d824776a1d3dfe866eba673\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. It\u2019s actually in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291e03ec12c864ef3a754f739d567cc22\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Section 72?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba256d8e028c49ce9d94a26f13cc56c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222225afae3dc45a9bd44b3e0d1aa9e19\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. We\u2019ll move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de67eb9104141f6b9a4f07658d01c2c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I think there\u2019s a shout in the whip\u2019s fund, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 453 in the name of the Hon Stuart Nash to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022584e618495fe4f69bfb9e5d689ba7370\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Student Loan Scheme Act 2011\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a50b37160fc34aefa2012e44015fafa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a50b37160fc34aefa2012e44015fafa5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: That brings us to Part 2\u2014that\u2019s clauses 39 to 57 and Schedule 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002243c1587230e5456bafcb814ba8a1ad27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243c1587230e5456bafcb814ba8a1ad27\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I was just ahead of the pack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae79c2cabde49318f2cdaf59830c046\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: You were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39e871ae40649c99660b84246ebba33\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: The amendments to the Student Loan Scheme Act, set out in Part 2, are very extensive, actually. I think the issue around this, as I said before, is really one of making sure that there\u2019s adequate flexibility for students. There\u2019s a balance here between making sure that students can and do participate in the KiwiSaver schemes and also making sure that the arrangements are fair and also, when they cease to be students and move on to a period where they\u2019re full-time earning, that the appropriate arrangements are in place to ensure that that is appropriately done so they make their contributions and all their student loan repayments as part of that requirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESome of it is dealt with in Part 2. Some of it is dealt with later in further sections. But I think the important thing here is the issue around the minimum deduction, which has been reduced from $1,500 to $500. I think that part of it is quite an important little aspect in terms of the ability of students to be able to manage their own affairs. This relates to an issue around\u2014originally, there was a $1,500 threshold. It was introduced to reflect the compliance costs associated with the requirement to file a return for student loan purposes. But part of this bill reduces that to $500.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAlso in new section 62A, in clause 45, the commissioner may now notify employers when loan balances are close to zero. This is the other bit I was talking about in terms of making sure there\u2019s a transitional arrangement for when students have paid off their student loan and are, obviously, moving on in terms of their life. Previously, under the arrangements we had, often the employer would keep making a deduction against the person\u2019s income, and, in many cases, this resulted in an overpayment by the employer on behalf of the student to repay their student loan. What section 62A does in particular is make sure and create the provision under, hopefully, the new system that\u2019s coming into place to operate in a way that they can tell the employer that it should not be making a further deduction\u2014so, in effect, giving pre-notification of the amount outstanding in terms of the student loan, so we get to a point where the employer is making the correct deduction at the correct time and stops thereafter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat is a very important part, and I think it\u2019s one of stopping all the compliance costs. It also stops all the hassle of that person who may have overpaid to the IRD to have to go and seek a refund and all the difficulty associated with that. So I think that is very, very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAgain, it would be quite useful to hear from the Minister in terms of the operation of that\u2014how that\u2019s going to be managed. I know we\u2019ve got a big Business Transformation programme coming through and working its way through and it\u2019s assumed that the technology will give us that sort of\u2014but it would be actually quite nice to know further details about how we are going to ensure that that is going to be carried out in a timely manner, prior to the last payment, and what arrangements and just any other aspects to that, because I think it is a very important part, especially when you get in the number of students that this will apply to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00225b0df9d85c9446b59654c48b2a4649a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b0df9d85c9446b59654c48b2a4649a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to take a brief call because I\u2019m like the IRD and its old motto: \u201CWe\u2019re here to help\u201D. In clause 45, new section 62A, I think we may have a minor mistake, which we should have picked up on at the Finance and Expenditure Committee but which we haven\u2019t. Let me try and point it out to the Minister of Revenue, and there may be a chance that if necessary, we can fix it at this committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EFor section 62A, the heading is \u201CCommissioner may notify employers when loan balance close to zero\u201D. First of all, I question why there\u2019s a need for that. I would have thought it was necessary for the commissioner to not continue to accept contributions once the loan is in credit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen, further on, \u201C(2) When [the] borrower\u2019s consolidated loan balance \u2026 close to zero, the Commissioner may\u2014(a) notify one or more borrowers \u2026 and (b) require the employer, [and the] employers, to reduce standard deductions\u201D etc., so they don\u2019t. Then, at 62A(3), \u201CThe Commissioner must give a copy \u2026 to the borrower.\u201D\u2014and we\u2019ve removed the bit: if a valid address to the borrower is found.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EMy concern is what happens if you don\u2019t know where the borrower is, and I presume that\u2019s why we\u2019ve removed the words \u201Cif a valid address to the borrower is found.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EAnd then further, at 62A(3A), it does not apply if \u201Che or she has incorrect contact details for the borrower [and] cannot reasonably locate the borrower.\u201D So I\u2019m just confused as to what the obligations then are to the commissioner in regards to the borrower of the student loan and to the employer. So just a bit of clarification around that from the Minister would be helpful as to whether we\u2019ve made a mistake with the \u201Cmays\u201D and the \u201Cmusts\u201D\u2014that\u2019s, basically, my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022891cb5e59a8c4454b137a9c29ae08a32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022891cb5e59a8c4454b137a9c29ae08a32\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E A couple of points\u2014I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve made any mistakes at all. First and foremost, the student loan scheme has been around, I understand, since 1992. I think you\u2019ll find that the vast majority of people who have student loans\u2014to Mr Bayly\u2019s point\u2014but are also gainfully employed are part of KiwiSaver. They understand the rationale behind KiwiSaver and they\u2019re contributing to KiwiSaver as well as meeting their loan repayment obligations as good Kiwis and someone who has signed a binding contract with the Government. So I don\u2019t have any difficulty with this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe second thing I will say is I would make a recommendation, if I may. Business Transformation and the process that it is going through to enable Inland Revenue (IR) to gather so much more information to better serve Kiwis is quite complex, but the overarching theme behind Business Transformation is data that IR can use to improve the integrity of the tax system but also provide a much better service to New Zealanders. I would make a recommendation\u2014I know the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee (FEC) isn\u2019t here\u2014if you have any really technical issues with the whole Business Transformation project, I know the Commissioner of Inland Revenue is always welcome to appear before the FEC and answer a lot of those details, and I know that as each release comes close to fruition, she is more than welcome to come in and brief the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3aca1756624f74984a149734e17f5c\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: And she has done, and she\u2019s very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052a3fb444e54988a609ccee16b3fad9\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: And she has done. I\u2019m well aware that she has always replied or taken up any invitation that has been issued by the FEC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Rt Hon David Carter, you\u2019ll note in the clause that you read out there it talks about \u201Creasonably\u201D\u2014what the commissioner can reasonably be expected to do. Now, what we do know is that Kiwis move, and it is actually the borrower\u2019s or the taxpayer\u2019s obligation to provide and update their information to Inland Revenue. So it\u2019s not Inland Revenue\u2019s obligation to keep chasing up the borrower for current details. Why we have a reasonable test in this is because certainly when Kiwis\u2014you know, they go from their student flat, they go back to wherever they\u2019re heading to, and then they head overseas; and, as we know, many Kiwis, they go from flat to flat to flat. I don\u2019t think that we would expect Inland Revenue to expend an inordinate amount of money or time trying to chase Kiwis that they can\u2019t. But, as mentioned, it is actually the obligation of the borrower to make sure that their information is correct. That\u2019s why we have a reasonable test there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn terms of \u201Cmay contact the employer\u201D, again, I think you may well find that a lot of student loan borrowers, when they get close to the point of paying off their loan, are well aware of what their obligations are and how much they need to pay. In fact, I know a number who have held celebratory drinks as the last dollar goes into the Government to pay off their student loan. They may well contact Inland Revenue themselves just to make sure they\u2019ve got the balance exactly right. So I suppose this is Inland Revenue again being proactive if they feel the need to be proactive in a situation where perhaps the borrower hasn\u2019t been proactive themselves. So we don\u2019t want to place an undue obligation or reach a point where there is undue duplication. That\u2019s why you\u2019ve got the \u201Cmay\u201D versus the \u201Cmust\u201D. But, again, I come back to that reasonable person test, I suppose: Inland Revenue will do all that they possibly can\u2014and, I think, that we would expect of them\u2014to ensure that the obligations of the borrower are met. But they\u2019re not going to chase people to the ends of the earth if, in fact, that\u2019s just a complete and utter waste of time. But I would go back to the point that it is up to the borrower\u2019s obligation to provide Inland Revenue with the correct information. I hope that\u2019s answered your questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 453 in the name of the Hon Stuart Nash to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221f50a8006c74c20953e1448a1dc9e9e\u0022\u003EPart 3  Amendments to other enactments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00225d096b17cfc44029884573c902c38dd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d096b17cfc44029884573c902c38dd5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: That brings us to Part 3, which is debate on clauses 58 to 148 and Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022b43e91b8bcbe43d490103b947d3d18a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b43e91b8bcbe43d490103b947d3d18a4\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to talk to my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 477 because it, essentially, relates to clause 59B. This is an issue that we on the Finance and Expenditure Committee have talked about significantly. In my view, this is one of those instances of something that is taking place that is terribly inequitable, pernicious, and wrong. What I\u2019m referring to is the situation where we have many hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who have ended up paying too much tax on their PIE investment income. This is an ever-growing problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo, in the last financial year, approximately 950,000 people who had a portfolio investment entity\u2014commonly referred to as a PIE, and that, in layman\u2019s terms, would mean having an investment such as a KiwiSaver account or other fund management type of investment vehicle\u2014these people in many cases inadvertently have paid too much tax or their PIR\u2014or prescribed investor rate\u2014was wrong. This situation is something that has increased over time and, as at the end of the 2018/19 year, there is about $42 million in tax owing to these people who\u2019ve paid too much tax. On the other side, we\u2019ve got people who have paid too little tax on their PIE investment income; the IRD, under the orders of the Government, have been seeking these people out and making sure that they are paying their just amount of tax on their PIE investment income, and that\u2019s correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe have a principle in New Zealand which is that you pay your necessary amount of tax but you pay no more. This issue, which has arisen over time, but, essentially, in the 2018/19 year, has become very, very substantial\u2014and that\u2019s why my SOP deliberately talks about that being the financial year\u2014from that date forward, in that one year, as I said before, there\u2019s $42 million, there will be another amount accruing in this financial year, and, of course, this carries on. Now, the bill talks about addressing this problem of paying back money owed to these New Zealanders in the year 2021/22, and that is wrong because these amounts, this $50 million\u2014maybe $60 million or $70 million by the time we get to that point\u2014should be paid to New Zealanders earning the lowest amount of income in New Zealand. In essence, most of them are amounts owing to people earning less than $48,000, and individually the amount\u2019s not a lot, but it is a heck of a lot of money that New Zealanders are owed by the Government. There is absolutely no reason why that shouldn\u2019t be repaid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhen I questioned the Minister Stuart Nash in the House, he said that it\u2019s an issue of technology. So then I did speak to the commissioner about it, and she did confirm that it wasn\u2019t an issue of technology. So then it was an issue of needing to do a legislative requirement. So I helpfully drafted an SOP for the Minister and presented it to the Minister and presented it to the select committee, and that would have allowed for this to take place effective from the 2018/19 year. What this Minister has chosen to do is to nick that money from those low-paid New Zealanders and retain that money, balance probably up to $70 million, and keep it in the Government\u2019s accounts\u2014and that I think is absolutely wrong. There are many, many hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders affected by this, and I just think that the Minister seriously needs to reconsider this. I\u2019d say to this Minister, \u201CPay the cash back, Nash, because it needs to go back to the rightful owners.\u201D It is inequitable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00228aeb72e25f414a2ea565da3e7f0debd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aeb72e25f414a2ea565da3e7f0debd4\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to speak in relation to Andrew Bayly\u2018s Supplementary Order Paper 477. I am a former Minister of Revenue for, unfortunately, only about nine months, otherwise we would have been in Government when the technological changes were made for IRD, which we funded and all that, and it\u2019s been an ongoing process. It was once a technological issue for Inland Revenue, and that\u2019s why the law was put in place: to say that they did not have to refund the money, because they couldn\u2019t physically do it\u2014that was one of their issues. But now that the technology has been invested in over many years, around about $1 billion, and I think that my colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse was the Minister at the time when we first started the process to actually\u2014[Interruption]\u2014oh, actually, yes even earlier than that\u2014bring the Inland Review computer system and technological system up to date and to that terrible word \u201Cfutureproof\u201D\u2014whatever that means\u2014it. We can do this now but we can\u2019t do it while the law is as it is. That\u2019s why Andrew Bayly\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper is a very sensible and reasoned way of dealing with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI would say to the Minister in the chair, Stuart Nash, that I was disappointed in the second reading speech that he gave, where he made some comments about what we could have done; well, we were doing what we could do but now he has the ability and we are there to help when it comes to the law change. It is not fair for the Government to hold money that it doesn\u2019t\u2014and, actually, not hold it; keep it and spend it\u2014deserve to have and shouldn\u2019t have. As has been stated from Andrew Bayly, these are, in most cases, people who have the smallest amounts, often, in investment and they are not often able to switch and change and do all sorts of other things with their investments. It is simply wrong for the Government to retain and to use money that it is not entitled to. Whether it\u2019s $60 million or $100 million or $30 million\u2014whatever\u2014it\u2019s still not right; it\u2019s not right for anyone else to do it and it\u2019s not right for the Government. The only reason that it was allowed before was because of the technological difficulty of sorting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo our system of tax collection is very effective because it relies on people doing the right thing, PAYE, and also people\u2019s withholding taxes and everything else coming out, without Inland Revenue having to do much for it. It is done by employers, it\u2019s done by the people who are the investment advisers; it\u2019s done by other people, a lot of that work. So, surely, Inland Revenue could, now that it has the technology\u2014and as Andrew Bayly said, the commissioner has confirmed that they do have the technology now to do it\u2014this would be a really good thing to do, and it would help to also increase the confidence in the tax system, which is important for the well-functioning working of a system that relies, in a great deal, on the goodwill and the work of others\u2014unpaid work of employers and those who have to collect taxes, child support, and all the other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I just don\u2019t understand why the Government wouldn\u2019t want to take this opportunity. I would say to the Minister in the chair: it\u2019s not often that we get, in Parliament, very genuine opportunities to make this sort of change, which is hardly likely to be an election issue\u2014it is hardly likely to be something that, you know, the 6 o\u2019clock news covers tonight\u2014but it is something that will make a difference and it will right a wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f49b0766304f08abf8c7a7ca35cde5\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Headline hunting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022816dc677b7d743b8ba7cbbffa1ba5662\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think that when the Hon Shane Jones calls out \u201CHeadline hunting\u201D, there is that old saying of the pot calling the kettle black, actually. I would say to Mr Jones that even he would have difficulty making a headline out of a portfolio investment entity (PIE) interest rate, but I think that he wouldn\u2019t know what the pie was. But having said that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc45044231d4b96a1600ddbde78ba34\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: He knows what pies are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e307aacb5b3b4129a46c5123d3d19f84\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Mince and cheese.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225535f05ca8b34c4e84f2f6f1b2e5be69\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Let\u2019s just stick to the issue, which is that this is actually a very good Supplementary Order Paper. That\u2019s why I\u2019m speaking to it, and I think it is something\u2014I know it is something\u2014that if we\u2019d had the ability when I was the Minister of Revenue we would have done it, and that\u2019s why we should do it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecdcd9ef8b034ade990bce19a7f56d11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecdcd9ef8b034ade990bce19a7f56d11\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. One thing I would like to say to Mr Bayly is \u201CNash has paid back the cash.\u201D What I would say to the member is, in Opposition, he may well remember that I used to query the Inland Revenue every single year as to why they held $750 million in account that was actually owed to Kiwis. This was money that Kiwis hadn\u2019t claimed in overpaid tax. And now, due to the changes made in Business Transformation, we are actually paying that cash back to Kiwis without them having to proactively contact the IRD or an intermediary themselves. So that money\u2014$750 million\u2014the vast majority of that is being paid back to Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ESo I think if you look at a lot of mischief in Inland Revenue\u2014and you know, I will talk about the former Minister\u2019s contribution in a second\u2014we have actually got on top of this. Let\u2019s put this into perspective\u2014and one thing I will say is I do have a little bit of sympathy for where the member is coming from, but let\u2019s put this into perspective\u2014it\u2019s my understanding that people who have overpaid have overpaid about a dollar a week. Now it\u2019s still a dollar a week they have overpaid, but it\u2019s about a dollar a week. It\u2019s not as if they have overpaid tax that\u2019s in the hundreds or the thousands of dollars. It\u2019s a dollar a week. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would say, and I remember when the member mentioned this Supplementary Order Paper (SOP)\u2014I thought about this and I went back and I had a look at my KiwiSaver statement that had been sent to me by my provider. I would say that I think, actually, a lot of KiwiSaver providers who, by and large, use portfolio investment entities (PIEs) to invest their clients\u2019 moneys could have taken a little bit more responsibility for this. Why we have ended up in this situation is because there is a default rate that tax is paid if a taxpayer does not provide their correct tax rate. It was impossible for Inland Revenue to determine if the default rate was in fact the default or if in fact that tax rate had been provided by the taxpayer themselves. So they could not separate the default rate from a taxpayer who\u2019d actually been proactive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EBut I actually believe that KiwiSaver providers, who are by and large\u2014not all, but by and large\u2014making fees out of their clients, could have been a lot more proactive in saying to their clients, \u201CMake sure you are on the right tax rate, because if you are not, you are overpaying tax and you cannot claim this back.\u201D Keeping in mind, this is not something that has just come into being. This has always been the case ever since PIEs have been set up. The rules have been that if you overpay your tax, you will not be able to get this back. This is not something new. It has always been in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing I will say is the SOP put up by Mr Bayly would require taxpayers to contact IRD proactively, because IRD does not have the data themselves to proactively do this and contact taxpayers themselves. This would have to be done proactively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would say\u2014and the former member of Revenue does know this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae23628781c40a3afe1441cfa1c64ce\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c149e4768c24c0b82fc88b5ec07dc15\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry; the former Minister of Revenue does know this\u2014is that every now and again, the commissioner has to make a captain\u2019s call about the best use of resource for her men and women. I know that the commissioner has appeared before the Finance and Expenditure Committee and explained in quite, quite graphic detail around why she made the call that this was going to be the way forward. Part of that was that this would take significant resource and a whole lot of time and effort because they don\u2019t hold the data. They would have to go back significantly. So what we have done is we have fixed the problem. We have fixed the problem. People will pay the right amount of tax going forward, but looking back, it is just far too much work to be done. That is a call made by the Commissioner of Inland Revenue, and I trust that she has a much better oversight of resource allocation and cost benefit analysis than we do, and I trust the commissioner has made the right call here. I back her 100 percent. I hope that has answered all the members\u2019 questions. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5b49197db424a0fa17095491455ee1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5b49197db424a0fa17095491455ee1f\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Now, that just shows a Minister totally out of touch on this issue, because the first thing\u2014and if the Minister disagrees with this, he needs to stand\u2014is that New Zealanders should pay their fair share of tax and no more. That is the hallmark of our tax system. What I just heard from the Minister was, \u201CWe\u2019ve got $750 million and we\u2019ve paid most of it back.\u201D That is not right. This is an issue\u2014this is money that the Government should not be holding. It does not own this money. It\u2019s owed to those people who have paid it. The issue I\u2019ve got with your logic, Minister, is that you\u2019re saying, \u201CIf a KiwiSaver person has not told their provider, then it\u2019s their fault and therefore we\u2019re going to keep the money.\u201D That logic does not stand up. That logic is not right, because that\u2019s contrary to the principle of fair tax in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is about the resourcing\u2014and I\u2019ve never heard that argument before, because I\u2019ve had two arguments: one is \u201CWe don\u2019t have the system.\u201D I did speak to the commissioner personally and also at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. She confirmed that she can pay it back. The second issue\u2014and you said that it takes a legislative change and all that sort of difficulty; we have the legislative framework to make it effective from 2018-19. We do not need to wait till 2021 or 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third thing about this\u2014the resourcing aspect\u2014actually, the commissioner has decided that she wishes to commit resources to collect the tax from those people who\u2019ve underpaid on the same KiwiSaver portfolio investment entity (PIE) arrangements, but not put the money into going and paying it back\u2014and, actually, it\u2019s not a big cost to pay it back. It can be paid back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last bit I just want to take the Minister up on is the supposition that it\u2019s the KiwiSaver person who is at fault here. I\u2019ll give you the experience of a lady called Georgina Burgess. She is actually an economist. She was working and living in Sweden. She immigrated to New Zealand as one of those highly desirable immigrants that we need in New Zealand. She came here; she is an incredibly hard worker. She is saving for a house. That is why she was so keen to put her money into a KiwiSaver account. She had three attempts to try to find out what her prescribed investor rate (PIR) was. She had multiple attempts to try to find out from her provider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat was the issue\u2014and this is an economist who is well-informed, absolutely engaged, and wanted to make sure she is on the right rate. She tried and tried and tried and could not get an adequate response from a provider. So do you know what this lady decided to do? She decided to change her provider because she knew if she changed provider, she would actually work out what her PIR was. And it was only at the point when she changed her provider\u2014which is not easy to do; she went to the effort and time to do that; but at that point she worked out that she had been overpaying her tax because the provider had been deducting it at the wrong rate. That\u2019s when she reduced her PIR. She was in that situation, she\u2019d overpaid, and you are now saying the resourcing issue is we can\u2019t pay back Georgina.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EHer partner, who is also another immigrant, from South America, who is in a professional job, actually got a promotion in his work in New Zealand. He came with her to New Zealand, got a promotion, and ended up inadvertently underpaying his PIR because someone didn\u2019t tell the IRD that, actually, he was earning more. So guess what? He got a call from the IRD saying, \u201CPay more tax on your PIE income.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo here were two hard-working Kiwis saving for a house\u2014and that\u2019s why they\u2019d invested in KiwiSaver. On one side of the ledger, someone who\u2019d got a promotion, got ahead, working well in New Zealand, got a demand for more tax; the other person inadvertently had paid too much tax, and you say: \u201CWe cannot use the resources of Government to pay back nearly $60 million or $70 million to hard-working Kiwis.\u201D That is fundamentally wrong, Minister. You should pay back their cash. Waiting until 2021 or 2022 is not right. You have the provision to do it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022f240baa246374fb6bdfb429342339c50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f240baa246374fb6bdfb429342339c50\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s two things I\u2019ll say with regard to this. First and foremost, the story about the woman who tried to get her right portfolio investment entity (PIE) rate off her provider just backs up my argument. I would say to you, Mr Bayly, that that provider was absolutely remiss in the service that it provided to its client.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228410f44e7aab4398b1321ea02a43c6a3\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022159c89dfd5a344e0bb474f067213bb90\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: No, it is the point, and that is my point. The providers of the\u2014[Interruption] Listen to me for one second. The provider is taking money and making money out of the clients, and for it not to provide a level of information that gives the clients a level of transparency I think is very remiss. I would have recommended anyone who can\u2019t get that information from their provider, with one phone call, to change. I certainly would.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe second thing I would say is that this comes in the 2020-21 year, not the 2021-22 year. So it\u2019s the 2020-21 year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe third thing I would say is that this is the issue that we were facing about, you know, this chap who got a promotion. So the default PIE rate was 28. If you\u2019re on the top marginal tax rate, you pay 28. But we had no idea whether someone had contacted IR and said, \u201CMy rate is 28.\u201D, or if that was the default rate that had been set. So we had no idea how to check this. If it was a lower rate, then we did have the ability to check that, because, obviously, someone had been in touch with the Inland Revenue and put that rate in place, because everyone started on the default rate\u2014everyone started on that default rate. So, obviously, that gentleman had contacted IR and said, \u201CThis is what my rate should be.\u201D He got a promotion; went to 28. IR said, \u201CWell, is that a default rate or is that where he should be?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe fourth thing I would say\u2014and this is actually the most important point, and I know the member does know this. I know we have two former Ministers of Revenue sitting in the House at the moment, and both of them will actually know this as well. The fundamental principle behind our tax system is that it is actually the obligation of the taxpayer to provide the right information to Inland Revenue. That is the fundamental principle\u2014the fundamental principle\u2014behind our tax system, and that is that the taxpayer provides the right information to Inland Revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ENow, this is the last thing I\u2019m going to say on this, because I think I\u2019ve answered all the questions put forward and I would hate to have to relitigate yet again points that have already been made twice by two members, by three members. So let\u2019s move on from this, because I think I\u2019ve answered all your questions and I\u2019m not prepared to relitigate again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022deb92da08bed43baa5018285ceb64c69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deb92da08bed43baa5018285ceb64c69\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E That response really does behove a further examination of the Minister\u2019s completely dismissive response to Andrew Bayly\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP). It was the classic \u201Cthe dog ate my lunch\u201D excuse, and then it got worse. It got worse because he basically blamed the taxpayer for paying too much tax and is saying that\u2019s a reason not to pay it back. Well, frankly, if we take that analogy to a further degree and we talk about other types of tax\u2014for example, income tax or student loans\u2014and a taxpayer finds out that their employer, because they had put the employee on the wrong rate of tax, had overpaid tax, the Minister is basically saying that\u2019s the employer\u2019s fault, therefore the IRD does not have to do anything about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWell, I know IRD don\u2019t take that approach, actually. They do say\u2014because you can file a return and get the income tax back at the end of the year, and IRD don\u2019t blame the employer and they certainly don\u2019t blame the taxpayer. It is a proper and lawful\u2014in fact, legal\u2014requirement, as Mr Bayly says, for the taxpayer to have a right not to pay any more tax than he or she is required to by law. To turn around and say \u201CThat\u2019s the KiwiSaver provider\u2019s problem. Bad luck. IRD has nothing to do with that\u201D is the most dismissive, victim-blaming, \u201Cdog ate my lunch\u201D excuse that I have ever heard for not giving people their money back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIn a previous call, the Minister talked about captain\u2019s calls and resources as if the Commissioner of Inland Revenue had made a captain\u2019s call not to pay the money back because that would take too much resource. What he has also said is that the Commissioner of Inland Revenue has made a captain\u2019s call to invest just as much resource in collecting the nickel and dime money that might have been underpaid by a taxpayer. What we hear from Inland Revenue\u2014their strapline for years was \u201CIt\u2019s our job to be fair\u201D. Well, I say this: that is not fair. It is lazy, it is selfish, and it is wrong. Mr Bayly\u2019s SOP is the right thing to do, and I implore the Minister and the Government\u2014he might say, \u201CWell, the overwhelming amount of the money that\u2019s over-collected by IRD or overpaid by the taxpayer is paid back where the taxpayer can be identified and located.\u201D That\u2019s fine. Then do it in this case. Be consistent. Be the thing that is on IRD\u2019s strapline: fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9415803b28a495ebbd5018a7346c952\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9415803b28a495ebbd5018a7346c952\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to challenge the Minister, when he finishes this debate in the House, to meet with the commissioner, because the commissioner came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and by my recollection of a question put by a member of the Opposition to the commissioner, \u201CWas it a resourcing issue as to whether IRD were in a position to pay back this overpaid $40-odd million?\u201D, her response to us was that it was not a resourcing issue. In fact, I think the next question posed by the National member at that committee was: \u201CWas it the Government\u2019s call not to pay back the $40-odd million?\u201D And the answer from the commissioner was that it was the Government\u2019s call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow, if that is the case, then the explanation given by the Minister five or 10 minutes ago to this committee of the whole House is absolutely incorrect. I accept the Minister\u2019s earlier point that this is not a new issue, but prior to the millions of dollars spent on the Business Transformation Programme, IRD did not have the capability of identifying those who had overpaid their tax and the ability to pay back that overpaid tax, but because of Business Transformation, they have. They have the same technology that the Government and IR are going to now use to chase the 950,000 people who have underpaid their portfolio investment entity because of an incorrect prescribed investor rate. So the Government and IR are in a position to chase those that have underpaid, but they equally have the ability to track those who have overpaid and pay it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThis is nothing but a capricious tax grab by the Government, and while the Minister says it\u2019s only a dollar a week to most of them\u2014that is an outrageous statement by the Minister. I am also a former Associate Minister of Revenue, and one of the things I say with pride is the way IRD has improved its communication, its reputation, with taxpayers right throughout New Zealand. It has been a remarkable transformation whilst I\u2019ve been in this House, and it\u2019s something like this that stands to damage the very image that IR has created. It\u2019s not because of the commissioner\u2019s call; it\u2019s because the Government\u2019s made the call that they won\u2019t give back $50-odd million that\u2019s been overpaid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI just think the Minister has a chance to fix it. Not often do you get a tax bill before this House where there is such an easy opportunity to fix what we know is wrong, and all it takes is a bit of courage and gumption from a Government to use a Supplementary Order Paper that\u2019s been advanced by an Opposition member, and this problem can be fixed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228af38e55c7c94f038c3ad1efd990dcef\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Or just change the date in the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b86f022b38c84feb9e09467750a97cac\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Change the date in the bill\u2014there are solutions here in the committee of the whole House stage for the Government to do what\u2019s right. It\u2019ll chase the money that it\u2019s owed by those who have underpaid; why won\u2019t it give back the money to those that have overpaid their tax? Mr Nash started his contribution by saying \u201CNash has given back the tax\u201D. He pointed out, I think, it was $750 million that he\u2019s proudly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0518326b2fe409999cab8f3f56ad057\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, only some of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022053b0f9f424e4e50b42037fa1c30809f\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, some of it has been given back and Mr Nash was trying to claim credit for that, then recognised we\u2019re not dealing with a lot of money\u2014$40-45 million\u2014but it\u2019s growing all the time, Mr Nash. But I say to the Minister: do the right thing. It\u2019s not a new issue\u2014we all accept that. There wasn\u2019t the ability to identify and set up a system within IR to do it before Business Transformation\u2014that\u2019s been ticked off. All it requires now is a simple legislative change, and that opportunity, Mr Nash, is before this committee as we speak. All it will require is a Minister and a Government wanting to do the right thing and burying its pride and accepting a Supplementary Order Paper that\u2019s been submitted by an Opposition National member. I challenge the Minister to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022532d58b0403747f1b1909501a2e702a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022532d58b0403747f1b1909501a2e702a8\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I had no intention of taking a call on this section, because I thought Mr Bayly argued his point very well, but he clearly needs a bit of support. I rise to support Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 477, but not so much to support the SOP but the principle behind it. In our tax system\u2014and I accept the Business Transformation that the IR are undertaking is going to create some huge advantages, both for the New Zealand taxpayer and for the revenue in due course. But I think that the principle of paying tax in New Zealand is a principle that it\u2019s fair, and I think when you pay too much tax, you should equally be refunded, as you are the opposite when you don\u2019t pay enough tax. I think that\u2019s the principle of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EWhen you drive down the Ngauranga Gorge, as I do quite frequently, on the left you see a little old shed with LV Martin\u2019s name on it, and, of course, that sums up this exactly. His famous statement was \u201CIt\u2019s putting it right that counts\u201D, and I think that this Parliament has a duty, in my view, to put things right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EBut I think the real principle of this SOP and the issue that it raises is a much broader one than just the issue around the unpaid $50 million in tax, and that is that if people are going to have confidence in the Inland Revenue as they move forward, they need to have confidence that what they do is fair and equitable and that they will treat our taxpayers as taxpayers treat them. I\u2019m all in favour of those people who don\u2019t pay enough tax being chased up by the IR\u2014I think it\u2019s important that they are\u2014but equally, if you do pay too much tax, you need to get it back as quickly as possible. It\u2019s going to be very interesting to watch the tax take drop in the next few months\u2014very unfortunate for New Zealand, but that\u2019s just where the world economy seems to be at at the moment\u2014and that\u2019s going to create a whole lot more challenges for the Inland Revenue as people recalculate their tax liability, and that will result in a whole lot more tax refunds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to comment on a couple of other things on the Business Transformation, because it relates directly to this SOP and the issues that it raises. I think that it\u2019s very difficult in a country like ours\u2014or as we see technology advancing so rapidly around the world, it\u2019s very difficult to get the pitch right. It\u2019s all very well to sit on Lambton Quay or sit in Wellington and make decisions about how New Zealanders are going to be treated and how they\u2019re going to operate in the future, but not everyone in our country is equal; not everyone has access to equal services. I think it\u2019s really important that we take our time with a lot of these things and that we manage it in a manner that we take people with us. Certainly, I think not paying back taxes that could be owing is one of those things that defeats that purpose and certainly leads people to have a little less confidence in an entity that it\u2019s hugely important that we do have confidence in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t want to go on any longer. That was just a contribution I felt I didn\u2019t need to make, but, in fact, I think I do, because I think that Mr Bayly\u2019s SOP is well worth supporting, and I think it raises an issue that no doubt will be raised again in the future. Of course, when you think we have at least three or four tax bills a year coming through this House, the IR are pretty keen on getting changes implemented quickly and they move ahead of the market, but we need to make sure that the market has confidence in their ability to do so. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1ce714fe7024a08bb6345a8f1dc6173\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1ce714fe7024a08bb6345a8f1dc6173\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to talk about something else, but I want to just have one more talk on this specific issue, and, hopefully, the Minister will be able to respond or will take the opportunity to respond. But the thing about this money is it is owed to those people earning the least amount of money in New Zealand. It doesn\u2019t apply to people like us on the top tax bracket, because the default rate is lower. So the issue about this is that this applies to the people on the lowest rates of tax, and, by implication, that means the people earning the least amount in New Zealand. The bit I find disquieting is, I look over the other side there and I see a Labour Party and I see the Minister who has been in the chair, with his very bright, red tie, proudly supporting the Labour Party and its ideals about looking after people in New Zealand who are less fortunate than others. And I haven\u2019t had one call from any member of that House other than the Minister. This is wrong from that perspective. I look over here to the Greens, who have a strong socialist ideal that goes through their party, and, again, there is just a deafening silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis is not about National protecting its rich mates, as it\u2019s sometimes characterised by members of the Government. But this is actually a bill about protecting the rights of the people who are the least informed, the least empowered to make a change, who are the least sophisticated in terms of understanding these types of arrangements\u2014after all, who knows what a prescribed investor rate, a portfolio investment entity, is; when we step out of this debating chamber in a half an hour\u2019s time or whatever, no one knows it other than a few geeks like us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EYet the reality, if you strip away all the terminology in this bill, is what this bill is about is working and helping those people who most need it in New Zealand. And that\u2019s why I just can\u2019t understand it. I find it reprehensible that the members of the Labour and the Greens particularly\u2014I don\u2019t think New Zealand First would have much interest in an issue like this\u2014but you, you\u2019re two proud parties who say you represent the people who are the most dispossessed in New Zealand. On an issue like this, and we\u2019re not talking about an inconsequential amount of money, by the time we get to when this gets paid or balanced, it is probably in the order of $70 million that is owed to these people. Stand up for their rights, you people over the other side in the Government. Stand up for their people that need you at a time when they do not have the capability. That\u2019s what MPs are about. This is what this bill is about. It\u2019s not about technology and resourcing and all that sort of stuff. It can be done; the commissioner has said she can do it. There is a legislative framework to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIf you don\u2019t want to accept my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), simply change the date in the bill and make it effective from 2018-19. It\u2019s that easy. But the Government should not be holding this money. It is not our income, it is not our money. It is owed to those New Zealanders. Pay it back, Minister. [Bell rung] OK, I\u2019ll carry on, Madam Chair. Can I take a call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a0a783dae354275aa48c029b85fa56d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sure, Andrew Bayly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022092cfc0bc6274444a49d3f018c006d6e\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Right, I was hoping for the Minister to, and I pleaded for him, so I\u2019ll take another call. But I\u2019m hoping the Minister will respond on that substantive issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI now want to turn to this issue round employment share schemes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ab90416be74b8fbec913b036642b69\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Are the Greens going to back your SOP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abbc49e4aa4c403a9f4f7ad7a67a0926\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: And, also, yes, that\u2019s a very good point from my colleague. I\u2019m hoping we\u2019re going to get a call from the Greens about the SOP. It would be very helpful if the Greens stepped up and at least put forward their view as to whether, in fact, the SOP is something that they might support, or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut I just want to turn now to the issue of employee shares schemes, and this is a very relevant part, because in New Zealand we are trying to create an environment for the business community to thrive, and to grow, and to be innovative. And this clause, regarding employment share schemes\u2014it\u2019s covered broadly under sort of clause 69 inserting new section CE 7CB to the Income Tax Act, Madam Chair, just for your reference. But basically, this is the component of our business sector which is the most innovative and creative. Those are the fledging businesses where normally young people go out and basically forgo a good salary with the view of creating large businesses over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo part of that is that those businesses often don\u2019t have the cash available to pay full salaries. And the trade-off, the quid pro quo for that, is that in many cases, in order to attract that young talent\u2014that dynamic young talent that we need in New Zealand and we need them to flourish\u2014what happens is they are offered employment share schemes. Now, they might be in the form of options, they might be in form of different types of shares, and I don\u2019t really want to go into that. But this enables them to get those people who take up these options or shares to participate in the future increase in the value of that company. And that comes about through their hard endeavours as they make that company successful over time. So they\u2019re trading off the income now\u2014and, therefore, the tax on that\u2014for the gain on the capital value of that company, if it\u2019s sold or transferred or a new investor comes into play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo one of the issues with this, with this dynamic creative sector\u2014and we do have a flourishing creative sector in New Zealand, covering a whole suite of different businesses\u2014is that these businesses, as they morph, transfer, and mature over time, increasingly look for new investors to come in. And that is the issue with this, because under the tax rules, there was a requirement that you must hold the shares and there cannot be a substantial change in the shareholding of that company. That, of course, is all about restricting the ability to bring in new, fresh capital to continue to fund the growth of that company over time. And so this clause looked at how these instruments are valued, and there\u2019s three methodologies that are proposed which are a slightly wider sort of definition of those and more flexible. I think that\u2019s a very good part of this, and I think for many people who are involved in this sector, and future people that are going to be involved, this is a very, very important part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other bit is in the event of a takeover or corporate reorganisation\u2014and often what happens with these companies is they might go down one track and then they work out that there\u2019s no market for that. They\u2019ll change tack. They may park up a subsidiary and move into a new area. And under those arrangements, this bill provides much more flexibility around it and also in terms of the level of shareholding, and it builds more flexibility around that as well. So I think these takeovers, these capital injections, are an important facet of companies growing from early stage through to much more mature companies. And I think the aspects in this should be highlighted. We need to tell the investment community in New Zealand. We need to make sure our young people who are thinking about getting into creating businesses are aware of this because this is a very good piece of legislation to ensure that we have a flourishing new source of companies coming into the market in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf4dcf6970e41c181663e2d9ae538ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf4dcf6970e41c181663e2d9ae538ee\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 453 in the name of the Hon Stuart Nash to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 477 in the name of Andrew Bayly to Part 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b6e0a9667b94c9ab7f1742752322f54\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000141\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000142\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000143\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fe0f2718200429fa2ee79dfae1658cb\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226135a8a609cd45fbbccc3f38d3b701e0\u0022\u003EClause 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000146\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 453 and the following tabled amendment in the name of the Hon Stuart Nash to clause 2 be agreed to:\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000147\u0022\u003Ein subclause (19) delete \u201C113(12),\u201D.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000148\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00229e13bd28fc7b42c4b66eb40eecb87ee1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e13bd28fc7b42c4b66eb40eecb87ee1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Bayly\u2019s amendments to clause 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 477 are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d4100ba579a648e59ed79988e57b0a7c\u0022\u003ESmoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022350d6e4212ed433c9c11a7c905c0b753\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0119c622f0843da90aca4c410208651\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba2ad518997e4e7288919fde2a5faaf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba2ad518997e4e7288919fde2a5faaf5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased to take the first call in the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill, a bill that I, at least, have supported with some reservations. We have had quite a bit of a discussion this week around freedom of expression in another bill and I think also, from a values base, that the question of freedom to choose how one lives one\u2019s life has also underpinned the very cautious support for this bill. Because what we have in this bill is the State going in, effectively, to the private property and the private affairs of families to say how they should live. That is a quite large step to take. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere is, I believe, an important question of family sovereignty when it comes to the choices they make, even when those choices are bad ones. But on balance, and given the very important goal that we have of setting the country up for smoke-free 2025 and also the fact that this is a piece of legislation designed to prevent harm to children, on balance, I and the National Party caucus have supported it so far. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe had excellent submissions, actually, including from some fabulous young people into the select committee\u2014that was articulated in the second reading. I want to draw on that as we go into some of the questions and the proposed amendments, including the first one in my name, which was an amendment to Part 1A, because Part 1A does the most extraordinary thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe bill says that it will be unlawful to smoke in a car with a person under the age of 18, and then inexplicably it says that if the car is stationary and used as a dwelling, it\u2019s OK. That is the most extraordinary piece of double-think that I have ever seen in a piece of legislation. If, having crossed into the realm of the decision that this is a place the State should be, then be there properly. If the State wants to genuinely protect children from the harmful effects of tobacco because the enclosed space is so small, then do it properly. And yet we have this extraordinary paragraph: paragraph (b) in section 20D(2), in Part 1A, where the person may smoke in a motor vehicle if the motor vehicle is stationary on a road and in use as a dwelling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m aware the Minister has Supplementary Order Paper 452 to amend that particular part of the legislation, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s good enough. I don\u2019t think that particular paragraph should be there. My tabled amendment simply does away with this ridiculous inconsistency with the stated purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the Health Committee also had quite a discussion about the other exception\u2014or at least the National members of the committee did\u2014in paragraph 20D(2)(a) of Part 1A, set out in clause 9, which is where, if the person themselves under the age of 18 is in the car and they are smoking, then that should be OK. I think, on balance, that this does highlight an inconsistency in the message the State is sending about the responsibility of people under the age of 18 not to smoke, and I\u2019m not comfortable with that but, nevertheless, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s as large and egregious a breach of the goals of this bill to actually remove it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, also in Part 1, we have the question of vaping or, in fact, we don\u2019t have the question of vaping, because vaping actually isn\u2019t mentioned in here. This is an amendment to the Smoke-free Environments Act. Of course, as we know, vaping is not included in the Smoke-free Environments Act. There was a strong call from the committee to include it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe reason officials said that that wouldn\u2019t be the case is because the vaping legislation was coming soon. Well, it is coming soon. We will be considering that matter later in the not too distant future, but I think the inconsistency\u2014I won\u2019t take too long finishing this opening remark. The lack of energy around the smoke-free environments\u2014because we ran the very real possibility that the bill would be passed into law without the vaping legislation actually being in place\u2014was of great concern to submitters. It remains a concern to me. Thankfully, I think the time frame that the Government does want to pursue will mean that there won\u2019t be this unusual loophole where it\u2019s not OK to smoke but it\u2019s OK to vape. We will get there in the end, but I think there was a significant concern amongst submitters about the absence of that from Part 1. With those opening remarks, I look forward to the debate proceeding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00229a1b4c0030434ddda6a881fb1f4164a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a1b4c0030434ddda6a881fb1f4164a8\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The primary purpose of this bill is to protect our children, our tamariki, from the harmful effects of second-hand smoke. Too many of especially our tamariki and Pacific young children are exposed to second-hand smoke in the vehicles that they usually travel in when adults are smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EPart 1 of this bill actually will amend the Smoke-free Environments Act 1990 to prohibit smoking in stationary and moving motor vehicles for children under the age of 18. Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 481, that the Hon Michael Woodhouse has just tabled in the committee, to amend section 20D(2)(b), set out in clause 9, is basically saying that a person may smoke in a motor vehicle if that person is the only occupant of the motor vehicle and if that person is under the age of 18.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI have actually tabled SOP 452, because when we listened to the submissions that came through, it was very clear that a lot of our submitters actually said that we should look at this and, you know, we should actually address it. Our Government has listened to the submitters. What the SOP that I\u2019ve tabled will do is it will address new section 20D(2)(b), which currently exempts all vehicles that are stationary on a road and used as a dwelling from the prohibition on smoking while children are present.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe rationale for this exemption is that people have a right to smoke in their own homes, whether they are temporary, like motorhomes or caravans, or permanent. Our Government has listened to those concerns, which is why we are tabling this SOP to narrow the gamut of the bill. The SOP will exempt vehicles such as caravans, motorhomes, that are designed to be used as dwellings when they are stationary or on a road and being used as a dwelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe prohibition on smoking in all vehicles such as cars and utes will be retained, but caravans or motorhomes that are used on a road would still need to comply with the smoking prohibition if and when children are in those vehicles. I believe that this SOP strikes the right balance. It retains the bill\u2019s focus on protecting our tamariki, our children, from second-hand smoke while at the same time not infringing on the rights of people to smoke in their own homes. These caravans and motorhomes are used as homes by our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of Part 2 of the bill, it amends the Summary Proceedings Act 1957\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48a3de64bfb4bc594a501cb1a4b983e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re on Part 1\u2014we\u2019re on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5074fb28f4470397c9388016740fa9\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. That would be my contribution for now, and I look forward to contributions from the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab1e97328e9e430aa182595a37575d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab1e97328e9e430aa182595a37575d5a\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to speak to the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that, as our health spokesperson, the Hon Michael Woodhouse, has said, doesn\u2019t go far enough. It doesn\u2019t include vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWith respect to Minister Jenny Salesa, who has just resumed her seat, the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) tabled in her name does not go far enough. It narrows it somewhat by exempting caravans, motorhomes. While the intention of the SOP is to narrow the focus, it is still ridiculous to allow smoking in cars where young people might be if they are used as a dwelling. It is the kind of virtue signalling that has made a nonsense of a bill that really ought to be making a heavyweight contribution to New Zealand\u2019s goal of being smoke-free by 2025, something that in the past, the Labour Party\u2014and certainly the M\u0101ori Party when it was here\u2014championed under Dame Tariana Turia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo we need to be sensible if we\u2019re going to attain the goals. Unfortunately, this SOP stops short of good sense, because people will still be able to smoke in vehicles where there are children, if they are parked on the side of the road. So while there may be some exemption around homes, I think the underlying dogma that people should\u2014while not desirable that they live in cars, but if they do, then they are still able to smoke in those cars if it is stationary, with children in the car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI have a deep failure to understand why an individual who needs to smoke a cigarette can\u2019t just get out of the vehicle for the duration of smoking a cigarette. I was conferring with my learned colleague Ian McKelvie about how long it takes to smoke a cigarette. We\u2019re a little hazy on that one, but it\u2019s a couple of minutes. It\u2019s not going to be a game-changer. If somebody is that addicted that they have to have their cigarette\u2014fine, get out of the vehicle. Do not leave those toxins and that smoke in the car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo while the SOP in the name of the Minister goes a certain way to tweak new section 20D(2)(b), set out in clause 9, it doesn\u2019t go far enough in our view, so we won\u2019t be supporting it. However, we will support the far more sensible SOP in the name of the Hon Michael Woodhouse, which is that a person may smoke in a motor vehicle if the person is the only occupant of that motor vehicle, and is under the age of 18 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo it is an effort to, I don\u2019t know, kind of improve a bill that needs more. But on the other hand, we are trying to be positive and constructive on this side of the Chamber, so that is an SOP that we will support, because it does go some way to amending a fairly, you know, fundamental flaw in this bill. I have been in the select committee and I have spoken on this bill several times. I think that, as the Hon Michael Woodhouse has pointed out, some of the submitters, including young people, who are at the heart of this legislation, came to us with very moving and intelligent and articulate testimony that we must do all we can as legislators to stop the smoking in cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe vaping issue, which we will come to later under extended hours in this Chamber\u2014slightly concerning that it wasn\u2019t better organised and did not come in at a time to help inform this Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill, but it seems to have been scrambled together. So it will be up for debate in the Chamber later this morning. But it\u2019s part of the overall package of incoherence of this Government, where it makes piecemeal adjustments, takes legislation that we had prepared, for example, in the case of the Hon Nicky Wagner who had an excellent bill formerly and has tried to put it before the House on a number of occasions. It\u2019s been turned down for the most base sort of political reasoning and it is now almost replicated and coming back, lo and behold, as a Government bill when the Hon Nicky Wagner had put all the hard work and effort into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIt was a bill that should have been passed a long time ago with the political will of this House, but it wasn\u2019t, because of Labour and the Greens and the dogma they bring to this one and their fundamental failure to acknowledge that anybody but themselves has an idea around what would make good legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo a lot of time\u2019s been wasted, not only in this House but also in the lives of young people who have been adversely impacted for years longer than they needed to be in terms of smoking in vehicles because this slack, incoherent, incompetent Government couldn\u2019t get their act together to support the Hon Nicky Wagner\u2019s bill and has not listened to good sense in the select committee. I hope that the House will support the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a19c568d62c84ff39c1017c56f072fa5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a19c568d62c84ff39c1017c56f072fa5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Following on from that and, indeed, addressing a couple of the comments Minister Salesa made in response to both of the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) that are in consideration for the committee on Part 1A, I want to first touch on the comment that the Minister said that this bill is measured because it doesn\u2019t go as far into the private affairs of families as, for example, a ban on smoking in houses would. Well, I just want to respond to that by reflecting on both a phone conversation and a media interview that the Children\u2019s Commissioner did when this bill was introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EMr Becroft contacted me to ask me and my caucus to support this bill, and we had a long conversation about the interference into the private affairs by the State because of this bill. I made the comment to him that I thought that the next step would be\u2014in my view a significant step too far\u2014the imposition by the State into the family home, into the house. I said that that was just a step far too far for me, and he said, \u201CWell, Mr Woodhouse, if I am asked by the media, I will say that that\u2019s what the Government should be doing next.\u201D Well, actually, he didn\u2019t wait to be asked. In the very first interview he gave about that, he made it very clear that it was his view that that\u2019s where the State should be going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I have a huge admiration for the advocacy that Andrew Becroft does for our tamariki, but I have to respectfully and strongly disagree that that is an appropriate next step by the Government into the private affairs of family. I really am uncomfortable with where we\u2019re going here. But as I say, if we are going to do it, at least let\u2019s do it right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI note the Minister\u2019s comments in defence of, and the support for, her SOP 452, which actually says, \u201CWell, if we change the definition of a vehicle to one that is manufactured for use as an occasional or permanent dwelling, then the exception is OK.\u201D Well, I\u2019m sorry, we\u2019re taking the eye off the ball here. I think there are two issues here. I mean, I live in Dunedin and my playground is central Otago, and like other places like the Coromandel\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221281bb37ecd74792a3f187853024ac82\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: North Shore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3438e0d60a04aaaaddb7fbd29e01842\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, not quite the North Shore. I don\u2019t think freedom camping is quite the issue on the North Shore, because that\u2019s where I was going. I see a plethora of vehicles around Lake Dunstan all summer that masquerade as vehicles for use as occasional or permanent dwellings. In order to get around these freedom camping rules, what people do is they put those stickers on the back of those vehicles to say, \u201CIt has ablutions\u201D or something\u2014some kind of loose reference to the vehicle being used as an occasional or permanent dwelling, and that is a nonsense for most of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe big white Kia campervans\u2014we all know they\u2019re campervans and what they are. But people living in vehicles\u2014under this Government the numbers have gone up\u2014are using these things as an occasional or, in terrible cases, permanent dwelling. Who is to say? Who is the arbiter of whether a vehicle is actually manufactured for that purpose? That is its practical use by freedom campers, by our increasing numbers of homeless, and the Government, effectively, admits defeat on that issue by saying, \u201CWell, they\u2019re going to use a vehicle as a home; let\u2019s let them smoke in that home.\u201D It\u2019s ridiculous. It\u2019s absolutely dancing on the head of a definitional pin which nobody is able to police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Minister and the Government: if the Government is going to take this step, at least take this step properly and consistently, because they have also said this is a policy, a law, that will be most effective in the prevention rather than the prosecution\u2014and I\u2019ll come to that in a later intervention. But if it is truly going to be most effective in the prevention, be consistent and holistic in preventing smoking in vehicles with children under the age of 18. It\u2019s the only sensible thing to do. It\u2019s what the select committee was told by submitters was the only sensible thing to do, and people are scratching their heads at this odd exception. My SOP will clarify that and remove any doubt about what this bill is intended to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00223b7bc52daf1841e4aa7a203d82e43842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b7bc52daf1841e4aa7a203d82e43842\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in this committee of the whole House on the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill. I would like to start by signalling that I think no one in this House disagrees about the risk you put children at by smoking in a car with children with you\u2014not only the physical impact, but I\u2019d also highlight the psychological impact. When you talk to people who had the unfortunate experience of growing up and inhaling the second-hand smoke of either their parents or another adult in the front seats, that psychological harm can stay with people for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo how do we get to a position where everyone in the House agrees that second-hand smoke on young children in a car, physically and psychologically, is harmful, yet we are in a position where we\u2019re trying to, for some reason, carve out a definition between whether the car is moving or is stationary. Because, in fact, it\u2019s actually irrelevant; that harm is still there. So I would like to hear from the Minister a bit more about why now we have a change of heart, so to speak. Because it\u2019s very well for the Minister to say, \u201CWell, we listened to submitters.\u201D Well, if we had listened to submitters, we would not be in a position now needing the Government to put forward a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP). If we\u2019d listened to submitters, then this carve-out would have been agreed at the select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo I want to know what has changed since the select committee stage, where we were under the understanding that there would be no change to hear, and that is why the bill presents itself in the committee of the whole House at this stage. Because I would imagine that, in fact, the reason why the Minister has been dragged kicking and screaming to bring this SOP to this Chamber is because she\u2019s been shown up by the Hon Michael Woodhouse and his SOP. In fact, if you were to go out and talk to the average New Zealander and say that the Government\u2019s passing a bill to say that you can\u2019t smoke in a car with kids unless you\u2019re living in it, they\u2019d scratch their heads and say, \u201CWhat\u2019s going on here?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ENot only that, but we got to the select committee stage and heard a lot of submissions from some very credible submitters, and still the Government had shown no interest in changing it. What we\u2019ve now got is we\u2019re playing catch up, and what I find really confusing is that you\u2019ve got a Government that\u2019s shown no interest\u2014and the Government members on that select committee showed no interest when we were hearing from submitters\u2014in changing this part, and now, because of our health spokesperson, quite rightly, reflecting on what submitters told us and what the public is telling us, and putting forward an SOP, well, all of a sudden, the Minister has decided that we\u2019ve listened to submitters. Well, I don\u2019t think we did, but we are in this position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI had actually asked for some clarification around SOP 452, because we are, in clause 9, replacing subsection (3) of section 20E with new subsection (3), paragraph (b), which says, \u201Cstationary on a road and in use as a dwelling.\u201D With that line there, are we not just going to end up with what the bill is actually saying now? So it won\u2019t change anything. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EYes, I can understand why in paragraph (a) it talks about a vehicle that\u2019s been \u201Cmanufactured for use as an occasional or permanent dwelling;\u201D, which is that argument about a motorhome. We understand that. But by putting in paragraph (b), does that just not return us back to the status quo? That\u2019s why, actually, for a Minister who\u2019s got an army of officials, I think she\u2019s been shown up today by an Opposition spokesperson who\u2019s probably writing his own SOPs and has actually got it right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002289a1fa2123b44348a69b5f6d33c4dca6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289a1fa2123b44348a69b5f6d33c4dca6\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to address the comments from both the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2014about his Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 481\u2014as well as the member Matt Doocey. The Government SOP has been tabled for a while. As far as I am advised, however, SOP 481 was tabled, I think, just last night. In terms of why is it that we\u2019re introducing this Government SOP, it is because there are people who are living in motorhomes and caravans, and the Hon Michael Woodhouse alluded to this in his comments. We do not want to get to a place where we are going into people\u2019s homes and saying \u201CThou shalt not smoke in your own home.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIf I can actually reflect back to the changes in Aotearoa New Zealand in terms of social norms that happened when we introduced the smoke-free ruling that areas like bars, workplaces, and restaurants would be smoke-free, that is, essentially, what we say will happen here, as well. It is not about the issuing of the infringement notices and it is not about the police actually stopping people if there are children in the cars where they are smoking. It is about all of us in Aotearoa New Zealand behaving in a different way. What we saw with smoke-free areas in terms of workplaces when it was introduced was that it didn\u2019t happen overnight, but all of us actually then changed the way we acted. This is also what we believe will happen with this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe can look at other jurisdictions\u2014say, for instance, the UK and lots of states in Canada, as well as Australia, and if you have a look at the UK, when they introduced smoke-free cars in the UK, over a period of 18 months, there were only two infringement notices where folks were taken to court. When you look at our own history here in Aotearoa New Zealand, over a period of 15 years there has been only a handful of cases where infringement notices have resulted in people being taken to court because they hadn\u2019t actually adhered to workplaces being smoke-free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re saying, and what we know from public surveys, is that over 90 percent of Aotearoa New Zealand believe that smoking in vehicles when our children are in those vehicles is not the right to do. We believe that this will happen here, as well, but we do not want to infringe on people\u2019s rights when it is their own homes. So that is why we\u2019re introducing SOP 452\u2014to make a differentiation for folks that are living in vehicles that have been manufactured to be occasional or permanent dwelling places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022394d102cc5354051aaf6f90a1400f485\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022394d102cc5354051aaf6f90a1400f485\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In respect of the rather unusual comment by Minister Jenny Salesa that implied, I think, that somehow my Supplementary Order Paper 481, because it was tabled only last night, had less force or effect, or was less worthy than hers, it was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bec7e3323d1f48d5a5ae06cd6497ad77\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: It was signalled in the committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b035234e4a084e9c8270a63b96e87296\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly right, Mr Doocey. It was signalled very clearly in the select committee, it was signalled very clearly in the second reading, and it has been tabled well in advance for members to have a look at it. It\u2019s really simple\u2014delete a stupid clause\u2014and there was a very good reason, I think, why we should, which I\u2019ve articulated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to go on to another matter that the Minister raised, and that is the role of the police in this. She said words to the effect that it\u2019s not about police stopping cars and issuing infringement, but it\u2019s about prevention. Well, that\u2019s true, except the issue of prevention\u2014and the example the Minister used was that, \u201CWell, you know, we got our smoking rates down because of the public stigma around people smoking.\u201D That\u2019s why people smoke in cars\u2014because they can\u2019t smoke in bars and they get harassed when they smoke in the street. The car is actually one of the few places, or the few\u2014up until this bill is passed\u2014safe havens, where they don\u2019t get seen as easily, or identified and stigmatised in the way they might in other parts of society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe UK example was a very good one. The question isn\u2019t whether there were lots of infringement notices issued, Minister. The question was actually whether it genuinely resulted in fewer people smoking in cars. I think it is a much, much longer-term issue to answer that question, because we know with the cellphone ban which was introduced when Steven Joyce was the Minister of Transport\u2014so it must have been around 2010 or 2011\u2014nine years later, there is still unacceptably high cellphone use while driving. The police periodically have a blitz, and one has to wonder whether, if we don\u2019t have the same stigmatisation of smoking in cars that leads to a reduction in its incidence, the police will be asked to go on a smoking blitz. That, in my view, is an appalling use of police resources. We now know that when victimisation rates in this country are going up massively under this Government, when violent crime is going up, and when gang membership is going up, we\u2019re going to worry about whether someone\u2019s having a fag in the car. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe Government says, \u201CWell, that\u2019s not our intention.\u201D, except in Part 1, there is the most extraordinary section that I have ever seen. It, basically, treats police like idiots. It\u2019s in new section 20E in clause 9 and is entitled \u201CConstable\u2019s powers\u201D, and it goes on to say that \u201C(1) A constable who sees a person smoking in a motor vehicle that is on a road [blah-blah-blah should] (a) signal or request the driver of the motor vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as practicable: (b) require the driver to remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the constable to make the inquiries and complete the exercise of powers under this section:\u201D. It goes on. There are another two paragraphs here, Mr Mark Mitchell, that your former colleagues are going to be treated like complete idiots and like they somehow don\u2019t know how to exercise a discretion\u2014including the discretion to do nothing\u2014because they\u2019ve got better things to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EInstead, they\u2019ve got this cookbook, ABC \u201CHere\u2019s what you do if you see a person having a fag in a car.\u201D It completely undermines the Government\u2019s statements that this is not about prosecution when they put a whole page of what a constable should do in this situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204ccb576779a4362920de97cbe9999bc\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: That should go in the regulations bonfire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a7377582ab47a6b7574bb5d3508796\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. The first up into the bonfire, Mr Macindoe\u2014a very good point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI think the question of infringement is one that was answered in the select committee, around what we\u2019re really trying to do here. We were told by officials that it\u2019s not about infringement, but we were then told by officials that the bill can\u2019t come into force for 18 months, because that\u2019s how long it\u2019s going to take New Zealand Police to adjust their IT systems to enable infringement notices that they\u2019ll issue to be recorded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI will speak more about the commencement date at the appropriate time, because I think it\u2019s ludicrous that we\u2019re going to pass a bill and go, \u201CNah, it\u2019s OK. We\u2019re not going to do anything about it for 18 months.\u201D That really calls into question the Government\u2019s commitment to Smokefree 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 452 in the name of the Hon Jenny Salesa to clause 9 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228e18198e5cac47dcba500866c248b2cf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac0c4684c77f4e7a894ba9b6c458f8c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac0c4684c77f4e7a894ba9b6c458f8c1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2019s amendment to clause 9, set out on Supplementary Order Paper 481, is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee in relation to the Minister\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 452.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228222168cb6e7413ab93e1f72406d09b4\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba7113dad3584455bea7f7d95b72170c\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00227740cc0f83b24670acc8a19a97a1e376\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227740cc0f83b24670acc8a19a97a1e376\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E This committee needs to consider how seriously we are taking this, because, now, having committed to the fact that we agree that the State should be required to prevent smoking in cars where children are present, then the question is: why are being asked to wait 18 months for this to become effective? The select committee debated this at length, and we got advice from officials\u2014it was the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Justice\u2014basically saying, \u201CWe consider this will undermine the efficacy of an enforcement agency as there will be no imperative to comply with the direction of an individual if an individual were not liable to penalty.\u201D This was in response to my suggestion that the bill actually come into force on the day after it receives Royal assent, except for the infringement regime, because New Zealand Police told us that it would take 18 months for them to be able to implement the systems required to actually write infringements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo, again, it reinforces that inconsistency about whether this is a bill, an Act, effective in prevention or prosecution. If it\u2019s an Act effective in the prosecution, then our public health officials should have the force of law behind them when they go out in their health promotion campaigns, which can start straight away, to say that smoking in cars is bad. We\u2019ve already got those TV ads, you know, with the woman sitting in the car by the side of the rugby field and the smoke drifting out the car as the kids are coming towards it. It\u2019s a form of subtle stigmatisation of the smoking habit. Why not beef that up and say that not only is it wrong, it\u2019s unlawful? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe fact that they might not be punished for it\u2014and, indeed, that\u2019s not the Government\u2019s stated intention\u2014should not prevent this House from requiring the Act to become effective as soon as the Governor-General gives it the Royal assent. So I am tabling a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), with apologies to the Minister because it did come quite late. This one I do have to take up. I had believed, actually, that National in the select committee report had indicated that we would do this. We certainly were unhappy with the timing of the implementation of the Act, but I didn\u2019t actually do that, and, as a consequence, the SOP has come late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe tabled SOP in my name, however, amends clause 2 so that the commencement for new sections 20D(3) and (4) and 20F come into force 18 months after the date on which this Act receives the Royal assent, but the rest of the Act comes into effect on the day after it gets Royal assent. Now, those sections are the infringement regime. So the support for this and the appetite for this, I think, says two things. It\u2019s a question, and the answer the Government gives to it will speak to what they really want to be doing here. Is this about prevention or prosecution and how energetically they want to pursue the goal of Smokefree 2025? Because if the answers to those questions are that it is a preventive strategy, not a prosecutorial one, and if the answer is \u201CWe are really serious about making sure we get to Smokefree 2025.\u201D, then the committee must support my tabled amendment. It sends a very clear signal that we are serious about this, that we can take action on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI simply do not agree that there will be no imperative to comply with a direction if an individual were not liable to a penalty. And their response to that is there\u2019s no imperative to even make the Act effective for 18 months. It was a very inconsistent piece of advice from the officials, who otherwise did a fantastic job. I must say it\u2019s not my place to criticise the role of officials overall. They do a remarkable job for our select committees, but on this piece of advice, I respectfully and strongly disagree. We should be bringing this bill into force as soon as we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe should be requiring our health promotion agencies to highlight the reality that smoking in cars is now unlawful, albeit that there won\u2019t be a punishment\u2014they don\u2019t need to say that\u2014and we could spend 18 months on a public education campaign prior to the infringement regime coming in. That to me is common-sense lawmaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9d5ef02a5bc4aa3b8ec96a0d117a88e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9d5ef02a5bc4aa3b8ec96a0d117a88e\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to follow on from my colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse, our health spokesperson, who, once again, is an Opposition spokesperson who doesn\u2019t have an army of officials, but actually has tabled a very succinct Supplementary Order Paper that actually speaks volumes, in fact, of a change that this bill needs. Now, we all agree this bill is important and we all agree that this behaviour needs to stop sooner rather than later, so then why, as my colleague has pointed out, wait for 18 months after the Royal assent? Yes, we take the argument that there needs to be some time to put the infringement process in place, but I think what we\u2019re actually doing is sending a very clear message. I mean, what\u2019s the importance of bringing a bill to the House and then saying that, actually, we\u2019ll wait 18 months? If this issue is an important issue that needs to take up the House\u2019s time today, then why would it not be enacted once it gets the Royal assent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe need to send a very clear message to those who are smoking in cars with young children. In fact, I would argue that getting rid of the 18-month stand-down, as I put it, is actually part of the education campaign that needs to be rolled out. If we are saying that it needs to be enacted urgently, we\u2019re actually reinforcing that education campaign\u2014that it needs to be taken seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI would also like to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Jenny Salesa, why maybe an Order in Council isn\u2019t looked at. In fact, a good example is that some bills are going through select committees at the moment where they do have a date but they are also putting in an Order in Council. So if things are lined up earlier, then the enactment date can be brought forward. What we\u2019re rather concerned at is that this might take longer than expected. And we come back to the original point from my colleague: why would we wait 18 months? If this is important enough for the House today, then why do we not send a very clear message?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhen you break it up like that, as my colleague has done, it actually is simplified; yes, there are two parts to this: the enactment of the Act and sending a very clear message, and the infringement process. We don\u2019t disagree that, potentially, it may take 18 months for that to be installed. But firstly, why would you not separate it, like the Supplementary Order Paper in the name of the Hon Michael Woodhouse, and, secondly, why not put an Order in Council in? So if things line up earlier\u2014because, of course, let\u2019s be honest, a new Government coming up will probably get things done a bit quicker\u2014we mightn\u2019t need 18 months. Maybe we might be able to do it\u2014and I see a few nodding heads\u2014in a shorter time. So I would like the answer to those two questions from the Minister in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c51e2767ddef413ca9b241baa4df25d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c51e2767ddef413ca9b241baa4df25d1\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I do agree with the Hon Michael Woodhouse when he says that we should be looking at a social campaign, because, you see, the focus of this particular bill is about prevention; it is about changing people\u2019s behaviour. This is not a punitive bill where we\u2019re focusing on the infringement notices and on the police ensuring that people are fined. And on that note, we are not actually waiting for the 18-month period before the social campaign begins. In fact, the Ministry of Health has already had several discussions with the Health Promotion Agency so that as soon as the Royal assent is actually put in place, the Health Promotion Agency can begin the social campaign, because it is in our interest to let all of New Zealand know that this is a law that\u2019s coming into line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn terms of the infringement notices and the fines, the reason why we\u2019re asking for the 18-month period is it will take a while to get that system up and running. Police will have to train their folks\u2014you know, they do have the power of discretion if and when they do stop someone. One of the things that they could do instead of issuing a fine\u2014what we\u2019re actually asking the police, and they have to be trained in this\u2014is refer people to a stop smoking or cessation service. This is one of the reasons why we\u2019re asking for that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBut the thing that we do agree with the honourable member on is the fact that we must focus on prevention and ensure that the whole of New Zealand, the public, knows that this law is coming into line, and that we should focus on ensuring that they know well in advance before the 18-month period is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI do want to reflect back on other jurisdictions, as I said earlier. In Australia, Canada, as well as the UK, they weren\u2019t actually focused on the fines and the infringement notices. The focus there is basically on helping the country to change their behaviour, to ensure that when they go into a car, and if there are children in that car that are 18 years or younger, if they want to smoke, they possibly stop the car, step out, and smoke\u2014that they change their behaviour and that they do not expose their children, their tamariki, to second-hand smoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe do know that it is actually the tar and the thousands of toxins that are in the smoke and tobacco\u2014that is what is most harmful to our children, and that is absolutely what we\u2019re wanting to change here, to ensure that we do not continue to expose our children to second-hand smoke, because the reality in Aotearoa New Zealand today is we still have up to 5,000 people who die from smoking-related diseases every year, and this is one of the reasons why we\u2019re having this legislation being introduced, because this will help us get to Smokefree Aotearoa 2025. It is about saving people\u2019s lives, and in this instance, it\u2019s all about saving our children\u2019s lives. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00228088a724cdad4bac9b4aa06da6aa55ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228088a724cdad4bac9b4aa06da6aa55ad\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to take a very quick call to make three points\u2014I won\u2019t delay the consideration in committee. Can I first commend the Minister for her willingness to engage in this process. I think both the process in the committee of the whole House and, you know, even if the amendments aren\u2019t agreed to, the thorough examination of them strengthens that process. So I do commend the Minister for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI heard an inconsistency in what she said around the fact that this was not about infringement, but the very reason we\u2019re being delayed 18 months is because we\u2019re going to put in place an infringement regime, and I just want to highlight the inconsistency there. I do agree, and I do hope, that the health promotion agencies are going to embark on an increased campaign, but they\u2019re already doing it. It is not as strong a message to say this will soon be unlawful than it is to say this is unlawful, and I think we have an opportunity to strengthen that argument in that promotion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Michael Woodhouse to clause 2 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EReplace clause 2 with:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E2\tCommencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E(1)\tNew sections 20D(3) and (4) and 20F come into force 18 months after the date on which this Act receives the Royal Assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E(2)\tThe rest of this Act comes into force on the day after the date on which this Act receives the Royal assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002224ebcb442d24449fb97e7e9e5549583e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000237\u0022\u003EResult corrected after originally being reported as Ayes 63, Noes 56.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000238\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000239\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000240\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000241\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill with amendment, and the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000242\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4d1f5c032844b2885983a732f5b6352\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022492ed7f51dea46569ba99d8d0d6de182\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000245\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 5 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef9547e9ea9844db99bedaa6f2c0b84e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef9547e9ea9844db99bedaa6f2c0b84e\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I was saying, public health experts for many decades have grappled with the curse of tobacco. In 1976, in a paper in the British Medical Journal, Professor Michael Russell wrote that people smoke for the nicotine but they die from the tar. That simple statement is as true today as it was 44 years ago. In his paper, Professor Russell believed the answer to helping smokers was to find a cigarette that maintained a sufficient level of nicotine, the addictive substance that is craved, while reducing the amount of tar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EProfessor Russell would not have been able to foresee that three decades later, the first modern electronic cigarette would be able to deliver a chosen amount of nicotine without the need for tar at all\u2014that people would be able to inhale the nicotine they craved while being spared from the fatal cocktail of tar and burning tobacco and the thousands of toxins in the smoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe credit for this technological development is frequently given to the Chinese pharmacist Hon Lik, who was himself a heavy smoker. Desperate to quit after seeing his father die from the same addiction, the products inspired Hon\u2019s breakthrough, representing, arguably, the most disruptive technology for breaking the addiction of tobacco the world has ever seen. Of course, I\u2019m referring here to vaping. Many people want to quit smoking, but quitting is very challenging. I know this from friends who smoke as well as from a number of people who have shared their journey of quitting smoking with me. While vaping is not harmless, because it does not burn tobacco or produce tar and toxins\u2014which occurs in cigarettes\u2014we know that vaping is significantly less harmful compared to smoking tobacco. It is a disruptive technology and has a role in helping us reach our smoke-free 2025 goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIf the only concern this Government faced in drafting this legislation was to encourage vaping for smokers who wish to quit, our job would have been relatively simple, but regulating vaping is not that simple. Indeed, there are two sides to the issue. Nicotine is a highly addictive substance that companies have, in the past, chosen to introduce to children and young people and non-smokers in order to create dependency and therefore create customers to line their pockets with profit, if you like. Vaping products carry the same risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m deeply concerned that some vaping companies have demonstrated aggressive marketing towards our young people in other jurisdictions, and that danger exists in Aotearoa New Zealand too. In recent months, I\u2019ve seen vaping advertising on TV, on billboards, on bus shelters, and even on my teenage daughters\u2019 social media feeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAcademic research reveals what they\u2019re up to when it comes to our young people. A recent paper from Stanford University school of medicine found that JUUL Labs\u2019 advertising imagery in its first six months on the market was patently youth oriented. The research has cast light on what most people watching this tidal wave of trendy nicotine products felt: that JUUL claiming that it was marketing to smokers was not congruent with JUUL\u2019s image, branding, or presence on youth-focused platforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe practices nicotine companies engaged in when their ads ruled the airwaves belong solidly in the 1950s. We expect better because this Government, more than any in recent memory, addresses the issues in the best interests of our tamariki and our young people. Our Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, has made making New Zealand the best place in the world to be a child a priority for our Government. So when I hear from parents, teachers, and school principals\u2014as I\u2019ve done in recent months\u2014reports that vaping is becoming far too common, especially in schools, I am deeply concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhile recent data from anti-smoking group Action for Smokefree 2025 suggests that there is no vaping epidemic in New Zealand\u2014let me repeat that: there is no vaping youth epidemic here\u2014now is the time for action to prevent such an epidemic from happening in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWith this bill, we are acting to stop the sale of vaping products to young people under the age of 18; require child-resistant packaging, like they have in the UK; ban advertising, including the kind of aggressive targeting of these products to children and young people that we\u2019ve seen; be able to restrict flavours like watermelon, cherry cola, \u201Cberry-a-peelin\u201D, apple pie, and others from being sold at corner dairies, supermarkets, and service stations; stop the kinds of promotions that were seen in the last two years where vaping companies were in our rugby clubs and promoting their nicotine products on our beaches over summer; and prevent the normalisation of vaping by extending the currently legislated smoke-free areas for tobacco to vaping, such as our schools, hospitals, workplaces, bars, and restaurants. All of this adds up to an important protection of our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhat about adults? While we know we don\u2019t want young people vaping when they have never been smokers before, because we don\u2019t want a new generation getting hooked on nicotine, adults will still ask: is it safe? The Government\u2019s advice is, if you don\u2019t currently smoke, do not take up vaping; however, if you are a smoker, vaping is substantially less harmful to you and your body than smoking. Only vape to quit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis is a futureproof regime that will ensure Governments of the future can be swift in their response to emerging problems and evidence on vaping and, in particular, vape products. At the heart of our product safety regime is a notification system. This bill requires manufacturers and importers to notify products to the Ministry of Health before they market them. This will enable the ministry to follow up rapidly if any safety problems arise. The bill will also contain the ability for regulations on maximum nicotine levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill has elegantly dealt with the challenge of seeking to encourage vaping for current smokers and discouraging vaping for non-smokers and children. How we\u2019ve done this, in part, is to confer a greater set of rights and responsibilities on to R18 specialty vape stores. What I\u2019ve learnt through developing this bill is that there are some very responsible vaping retailers, particularly some of our specialist vaping retail store owners. Our regime gives them an important role in helping smokers to transition with advice behind the counter on how to quit cigarettes while vaping. This bill restricts the sale of flavours available at general retailers to tobacco, menthol, and mint, while still allowing adults to access a full range of flavours available in these specialist vaping retail stores.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe bill also contains a number of provisions unrelated to vaping and smokeless tobacco products that I look forward to discussing further when the bill progresses through this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to conclude by bringing it back to my focus\u2014our children and our young people and tamariki. We are ambitious for our tamariki, and we would like our children to be the smoke-free generation in Aotearoa. We also want them to have more time with healthier parents and grandparents by seeing other generations also kick the smoking habit. We know that vaping is a disruptive technology with a lot of potential to contribute to smoke-free 2025, but we also know that we must be smart and careful to prevent this addictive product from becoming normalised amongst children and young people and non-smokers. This bill achieves that balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI look forward to the Health Committee\u2019s consideration of the bill and the opportunity for all of New Zealand to have their say. I strongly commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002255c91ba600c14ffba9b8d8a95923f8f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255c91ba600c14ffba9b8d8a95923f8f4\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the first thing to say about this bill is simply this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224459cb3fbcf44097ac067a59b4c453a3\u0022\u003EHon Jenny Salesa\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I move that the Smoke-free Environments\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b37f84bb81b84cb1819e29cebd1ee6c2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no\u2014we do that at the end. Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0d8c13fb12465cbfc95c3b7cee2144\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The first thing to say about this bill at the outset is it\u2019s about time. This has taken far, far too long to get before the House. It would have been understandable. The Associate Minister of Health Jenny Salesa said regulating vaping is not that simple. Well, guess what! It\u2019s not that difficult either. One of the reasons why it was not that difficult was they had a virtual carbon copy of this bill handed to them because of the work that the Hon Nicky Wagner had done as Associate Minister of Health in the previous Government and then as a member introducing a member\u2019s bill into the ballot. It took years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EEven the Ministry of Health was imploring the Minister to get on with it. I understand these things are complicated, but the Minister has an army of resources not only ready, willing, and waiting to help but telling her that they wanted to get on with it and get the bill into the House. We\u2019re here now\u20142\u00BD years in and with not sufficient time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2114b15ba749db8be307fa5dc27fa1\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Do it once; do it right\u2014not like the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d621f17d50c4bbaa2a4a9fb58be914d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Do it once and do it right, says Mr Ball; it\u2019s about time they just did it. Talk\u2019s cheap, Mr Ball. Governments need to deliver, and, in order to be able to keep their citizens safe, they need to do it a great deal more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f923f4696b84d079ddcf73d0012a636\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s misguided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac861a27cbe4c0894a2fa986c536565\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I suggest that he\u2019s probably strolling through the situations vacant in The Dominion Post as we speak, because one thing\u2019s for sure: he ain\u2019t gonna be here in six months\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe offered\u2014we offered\u2014to support the Government on vaping, and the Minister\u2019s reply to the Leader of the Opposition and my offer to get around the table with officials so that we could speed this up and to help that process was, \u201CWe look forward to that once the bill\u2019s introduced.\u201D Now, that was six months ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhat they\u2019re doing now, according to the Minister\u2019s first reading speech in her introduction, is that we are now going to rush it. They\u2019ve spent years getting it here, and now we\u2019re going to rush it through the select committee process. We\u2019re going to support this bill, but, for reasons which we will come to\u2014and they\u2019re pretty obvious\u2014in the debate on the report-back motion, we will strongly oppose that, because we believe there are plenty of things still to be done in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIn fact, while I describe Nicky Wagner\u2019s bill and this one as carbon copies, there are some very important things that are in Nicky Wagner\u2019s bill that are not in this bill. It doesn\u2019t require, for example, vaping products to be child-resistant. I would have thought, given the debate that committee of the whole House has just had, that that would have been front of mind for the Government. Requiring vaping products to have a mechanism for ensuring refilling without leakage, restricting refillable vaping tanks to a capacity of 2 millimetres, and constant dose monitoring and reporting for the vaping devices\u2014all really important things that, I think, the select committee will hear about and want to discuss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I also want to point out something that I\u2019m not sure the Minister mentioned, and that is that the Attorney-General has\u2014and this is another reason why this needs a thorough going over\u2014issued a report under section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA), saying that the restrictions on advertising in the absence of scientific evidence on the harm associated with vaping is a restriction on freedom of expression that cannot be justified under that Act. Now, we know a bit about that because we\u2019ve just had the funded family carers bill that the Minister seriously criticised the previous Government for ignoring a BORA vet. Well, I\u2019ll be fascinated to know what her attitude is to this vet, because we have, again, been asked to consider a piece of legislation that is going to have a significant curtailment on the freedoms of New Zealanders to do certain things, and, I think, for that reason this really behoves the select committee\u2019s consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut all of that aside, I think, actually, the bill comes to this House and will be referred to the select committee in pretty good shape. I think the policy framework is there for the intent to be achieved, and that is to encourage people who are addicted to tobacco products to transition to the significantly less harmful vaping products at the same time as not encouraging people who don\u2019t currently smoke to take it up, and particularly our young. I agree with the Minister that that\u2019s a delicate balancing act that in the absence of a regulatory framework has actually been let go where these so-called responsible vaping traders have\u2014there\u2019s no doubt in my mind\u2014created a marketing framework that is designed to attract people who are not currently addicted to nicotine to try vaping. I have relatives who are adolescents, teenagers, young adults who admit to me that that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s happened, and they can\u2019t probably say why they did it, whether it was peer pressure or whether it was just what you did at a party or whether it was, to some degree, a part of that seductive advertising\u2014the colours, the flavours, the groovy sort of advertisements you\u2019re seeing on the TV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got to take a really, really close look. I understand what the Attorney-General is saying, and I highlight potential inconsistences in the Government\u2019s response to that, but I think we\u2019ve got to be really, really careful about striking the right balance between that freedom of expression and the goals of making sure our young people don\u2019t take up vaping. I see the Health Committee chair, Louisa Wall, nodding in agreement with that. We heard\u2014didn\u2019t we?\u2014from some fantastic submitters from Wainui\u014Dmata and the Hutt Valley about what they are seeing in their schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAction for Smokefree 2025\u2019s report into the incidents of vaping by year 10 children is probably unhelpful for two reasons. One is that if I was a fourth-former I wouldn\u2019t be admitting to vaping if I did. I was smoking behind the bike sheds in fourth form\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f90ee06cef54034847a446271e9eb85\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222bec412766c42b48250a8a3a8868734\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I wouldn\u2019t\u2014only smoking behind the bike sheds, Mr Bidois\u2014admit, even in an anonymous survey, that that was the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe second thing they told us was that, actually, this is a thing that starts in years 12 and 13; it\u2019s the older kids as they get to 17, 18 years old, and they\u2019re going out to the first XV parties and they\u2019re doing those other things\u2014that\u2019s when the pressure comes on. I think if we were to do a survey on the incidence of even casual vaping on those age groups, we would be seeing a different and much higher and, in my mind, more concerning incidence and prevalence of young people vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo I think we\u2019ve really got to take a good look at whether we\u2019ve got the balance right. I think it\u2019s a really, really good start, but we\u2019re going to hear from the vaping industry. I think we\u2019re going to get some really slick submissions. As members of that select committee know, I had a pretty big BS radar for the smoking industry coming into the select committee; I\u2019ll be turning that radar on for the vaping industry, recognising that they actually have an important role to play in this, and they have advised me that, actually, they haven\u2019t been part of the development of the bill to date. So that\u2019s going to mean that if the House does prevail in the Minister\u2019s request for a three-month report back, we\u2019re going to need to be on our toes, I think, to give really good consideration to those submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI want to just put on record the issue around flavours. Again, I think the balance between specialist vaping stores and other retail outlets like supermarkets, service stations, and dairies is about right as a starting point. But I\u2019ve got a concern, and I\u2019ve been misconstrued in the articulation of that concern around flavours. I don\u2019t oppose flavours; actually, I think they are a pretty good tool to transition away from tobacco if that\u2019s what the smoker wants. But I am concerned that constituent products in those flavours, despite having been approved by things like the Food and Drug Administration in the United States and other jurisdictions, is not appropriate for inhalation; they were approved for eating. So if you\u2019re putting vanilla essence or cinnamon or other flavours into these vaping products and then you inhale them into your lungs, there could well be a harm that is not known for a long period of time. So, regardless of where we land on that, I think it\u2019s going to be important that the officials follow the longitudinal studies globally, participate in them, and make sure that when we see signs of bad outcomes as a consequence we need to be quick to act to restrict those flavours. The Minister\u2019s nodding in agreement, I\u2019m sure she understands that and supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt is a problem, though, because we didn\u2019t know\u2014and the Surgeon General in the United States used to endorse certain brands of tobacco; it was years before we realised how harmful it was, thanks to the tobacco lobby, before we actually got the regulatory framework in place. So I hope we can be more nimble if we see the harmful effects of vaping emerge, and I hope it\u2019s earlier than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWith that caveat and with, overall, I think, a very strong support for the start point where we\u2019re at, I want to commend the bill. I look forward to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00220f4f3e80d0754ab288735cb1ac246f4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f4f3e80d0754ab288735cb1ac246f4b\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Can I firstly acknowledge the Minister Jenny Salesa and her ability to work across Government with our New Zealand First colleagues and also our Green colleagues in bringing this Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill to the House. I acknowledge her and our coalition partners because, I think, as my colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse has acknowledged, this is a comprehensive piece of legislation that, actually, in the end ended up trying to do two things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe first was to ensure that those smokers had access to a product that was 95 percent less harmful. So we\u2019re talking about people who smoke. The reality is that here in Aotearoa New Zealand, 5,000 New Zealanders die every year because of smoking-related diseases. A lot of the lobbying around access to these vaping products is from people like Professor Beaglehole, who know that these vaping products do work in minimising the effects of the addiction of nicotine, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe other part of this bill is that we have to ensure that it doesn\u2019t become a gateway product for our young people. I again want to pick up on something that the Hon Michael Woodhouse said in terms of our assessment of the smoke-free cars legislation. It was young people themselves who came and told us that it was cool to vape. They were seeing it from not the form 4 or the year 10 students but they were seeing it from the years 12 and 13 students. So it is a real issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that we will have, actually, some intense discussion, because if I look at what the law proposes to do: to ban the sale of vaping products to under-18-year-olds, to prohibit advertising of vaping products and smokeless tobacco, to restrict the sale of flavoured vaping products and e-cigarettes to R18 speciality stores\u2014all to ensure that young people are not attracted to it\u2014to limit general retailers, and to introduce this product safety system; as I said, incredibly comprehensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut the prohibition of the advertising, which has been highlighted by the Attorney-General\u2014and I just want people to understand the context of the Attorney-General\u2019s advice. Essentially, he\u2019s saying that section 14 is about freedom of expression\u2014that people have the right to seek, receive, impart, inform the public in a free and democratic society\u2014and the limitations on that right have to be justified. They have to be reasonable limitations in a free and democratic society, and with tobacco products it\u2019s been really clear: tobacco products harm. Tobacco products kill 5,000 New Zealanders every year. The issue with vaping is that, in and of itself, it may not kill 5,000 people every year. That\u2019s the point of creating vaping products. They\u2019re actually being created to help people who have addictions to still receive the nicotine but not the combustible part of the historic consumption through smoking cigarettes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI guess the question then for us is: are vapes going to be a gateway product, and particularly for young people, and therefore that is why they should be deemed to be harmful? So I\u2019ve already started looking at some of the evidence that we as a committee will have to assess, and there is a piece of research by Dr Blaha, who\u2019s a cardiologist. He\u2019s a professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins Medicine. There\u2019s a study: the link between vaping, young people, and smoking. So the question before our committee will be: are vape products and e-cigarettes a gateway to smoking? Within the context of his research, there were 2 million young people, and he looked at their use of e-cigarettes as their first nicotine-based product. So these are young people who don\u2019t smoke, and we all know that nicotine is highly addictive. The evidence from his research is that young people who vape are more likely to go on and use illicit drugs and tobacco products such as cigarettes, and so based on that research, we can say that, actually, vaping products are harmful for people who aren\u2019t wanting to give up cigarettes. Therefore, is it going to be justifiable? The committee\u2019s going to have to make that decision to prohibit advertising of vaping products that are specifically designed for young people that then may lead them to smoking. We have said we can\u2019t advertise, because it\u2019s justifiable, because it causes so much harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo that is going to be one of the crucial, I believe, decisions and discussions that we have in the select committee. I just generally, as the chair of the Health Committee, want to thank my colleagues on the Health Committee. The Minister has requested that we process the bill in an expedited time frame. You know, the time frames are usually six months; she\u2019s asked us to do it in three months. But I have to say, she\u2019s asked us to do it because, as we\u2019ve heard, we must do it. Currently, these products are unregulated, and so we have an opportunity as a Parliament to progress this piece of legislation, which means that, from what I\u2019ve just said, we reduce the risk to young people and we also provide those people who are smoking with a tool, with an ability, to minimise the harm based on the addiction of tobacco and nicotine. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa56d757d9c44468a6219c172af168b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa56d757d9c44468a6219c172af168b\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in support of this important bill. I just want to acknowledge the last speaker, Louisa Wall, and acknowledge the great work she does as chair of the Health Committee. I do respect her for her work not only as a local MP but as the chair of the health select committee, but I\u2019ll tell you what: I disagreed with that last point. Respectfully, I think it\u2019s more probably toeing the party line that, you know, \u201CWe need this. It\u2019s got to be expedited\u2014three months instead of six for the select committee process, for submissions.\u201D But in a backdrop of the Government dragging its heels for the last 2\u00BD years, when they could have got on and put this bill up a lot earlier, they\u2019re clearly feeling the pressure of wanting bills passed before an election, to look as though they have done something. The impact of that is going to be select committees rushing bills through that do not give an appropriate time for the public to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ENow, look, I\u2019m a pretty balanced person\u2014well, I like to think I am\u2014and there are some bills that, arguably, you mightn\u2019t need the full six months, but I would argue this one needs its full time. Why? This is the first time in New Zealand we are going to be looking at vaping regulation. Even Darroch Ball, who was contributing to the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2019s speech earlier, was saying, you know, \u201CDo it once. Do it right.\u201D Well, if we are going to take Mr Ball\u2019s approach and his advice, then why are we rushing through this bill? We want everyone to have their say, because I think there\u2019s some real\u2014well, there\u2019ll be some quite contentious points, and I think that the last speaker, Louisa Wall, outlined them, I think, very articulately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EOn one hand, we are needing to provide adults or young adults the ability to quit from normal smoking and transition to vaping, but how do we safeguard our children and our young people? What we don\u2019t want is a perverse outcome that, yes, we allow some adults who\u2019ve been smoking for a very long time and have failed to quit with the current tools the ability to move into vaping, but then find out that we\u2019ve created a new market of young people who weren\u2019t smoking traditional cigarettes and have gone straight into vaping. I use that word \u201Cmarket\u201D on purpose, and quite provocatively as well, because I\u2019ll tell you what: this is a very commercial market. Already, globally the vaping market is around $10 billion and expanding, literally, by the month. We don\u2019t have any available data of what the commercial market is in New Zealand, but I would say it\u2019s probably exponentially growing by the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI take the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2019s point of having his BS radar on during the submissions process, because I\u2019ll tell you what: some of the submissions will be heavily influenced by players in the market seeing the commercial gain here. That\u2019s why I think it\u2019s very important that the regulations we bring in are informed by the right health approach, not necessarily informed by the right commercial approach, because what is going to play out in this debate\u2014and it\u2019s a classic dichotomy when you look at harm reduction versus abstinence. You know, the Government\u2019s already fallen into this trap around the testing of party pills in dance parties, saying that testing will make it safe. No, it won\u2019t. By informing a user of what the substance is, it might make it less harmful; it definitely doesn\u2019t make it safe. The only safe way of using a drug is not to take it at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThen you have this argument of harm reduction versus abstinence, and I think, yes, some people have already started smoking, and, quite rightly, we are going to advocate that vaping is used as a tool to reduce the harm, but we must be very clear here: vaping is not safe. Yes, it\u2019s apparently, by the research, 95 percent less harmful than current smoking, but it still carries risk. That is why we need to make sure we take the time and get the right regulation in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s disappointing is this current Government came in using words like \u201Ca new style of politics\u201D. Things were going to be done differently. As we\u2019ve heard, this was the ability to actually, well, put words into action. This could have been a cross-party, bipartisan bill. We\u2019ve seen them in the House earlier, with the carbon zero bill, and the Opposition actually reached out, and the Minister declined that offer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI think that\u2019s disappointing for a Government that came in on the mantra that things were going to be done differently, because there was clearly a bill already put up. The Hon Nicky Wagner\u2014how good is Nicky Wagner, I must say. Imitation is the best form of flattery, and that\u2019s what this bill is. It\u2019s an imitation of the Hon Nicky Wagner, the bill she had provided. So we had it. We lost 2\u00BD years. But, respectfully to the Hon Nicky Wagner, there\u2019s still more work to be done in this space, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re advocating to ensure that everyone is heard, because what we want in this argument and in this bill is a health approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think there\u2019s anyone in this House that disagrees with the vision of smoke-free 2025, and we need to make sure that if we are really focused on achieving that in, dare I say it, five years to go\u2014times are going quick\u2014then we need to make sure we\u2019re taking the best approach. I just hope that we are going to get this bill in the right shape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why I encourage the main players in this space, and the public as well, to come forward and make their submission, because this is the first time New Zealand is going to have regulation around vaping. We need to make sure that New Zealanders have the right tools\u2014the right tools to be informed by and the right tools to make their decision. But equally, we need to make sure we\u2019re not providing the ability of a new cohort, a new generation, to come through with a new vice of their own. So that\u2019s why I think there needs to be a lot of focus on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EFinally, if I can just wrap up and say it is interesting that we have these approaches of vaping. We\u2019re increasing the excise tax in tobacco products. We\u2019ve got towns in my area of North Canterbury like Hanmer Springs, which is declaring itself smoke-free. So we\u2019ve got the right things in train, but I do think one day we are going to have to face the real decision if, finally, we are going to outlaw and prohibit smoking products once and for all. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255d2855c02144300868bd54a7e4381b1\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b18b306fede4aa4bd957ffbd5cf35c0\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225f8d5cabdcca472fa5d86b3e5c0ca7e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f8d5cabdcca472fa5d86b3e5c0ca7e9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Jenny Marcroft, members, in the committee of the whole House of the Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill, a vote was inaccurately reported to the committee. On the question on the tabled amendment of the Hon Michael Woodhouse to replace clause 2, the votes were reported as Ayes 63, Noes 56, when the correct votes were Ayes 56, Noes 63. The result of the vote was correctly reported as the amendment not being agreed to. The report on that vote will be corrected accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229726ca6f63dd4abba41705e7809e2881\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c26b711081848bf8d555fe02a1a2435\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000307\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6d060cc73a64628b2218434578f62de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6d060cc73a64628b2218434578f62de\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take my call on this, the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First stands in support of this bill and acknowledges the work with the Minister, the Hon Jenny Salesa, working together with this to progress this bill, because it is important for the health of all New Zealanders that we take this bill through all its stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill introduces vaping regulations that strike the right balance between making sure vaping is available for smokers who want to use it as a quit tool while ensuring that these products are not marketed or sold to children and young people. So this bill will achieve a few very important things. It will ban the sale of vaping products to under-18-year-olds. It will prohibit the advertising of vaping products and smokeless tobacco. It will restrict the sale of flavoured vaping products and e-cigarettes to R18 specialty stores and will limit the general retailers\u2014including dairies, supermarkets, and service stations\u2014to only selling three flavours. Also, and probably more importantly, it will introduce a product safety system which enables the Ministry of Health to recall, suspend, and issue warnings about vaping products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Health Committee, I\u2019ll be very pleased to hear the submissions that will come to us, as we all are, in the Health Committee, I think, in agreement that this bill is very much needed and timely as well. Just making note of the Minister the Hon Jenny Salesa\u2019s comment, as she set out in her statement this morning, that the public health in New Zealand has battled against smoking and tobacco for decades, and that Governments of all descriptions, in fact, have pursued and progressed policies that sought to reduce the harm, the deaths, that come from smoking-related diseases inflicted on our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThe areas that I\u2019d like to talk to in my contribution today relate around flavours and advertising in particular. Vape flavours, really, have come about as some sort of creative writer\u2019s dream. They must sit around thinking up really cool names for these flavours: Nectar of the Dragon; Banoffee\u2014bit of a dessert one, that one; Bad Blood, which is \u201CExotic blackcurrants and a chilling sensation that will excite the tongue\u201D. Maybe there\u2019s going to be a New Zealand flavour: Chur Bro. Even the musical genre is part of vaping flavours: Afternoon Delight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EAdvertising, and in particular cigarette advertising, goes way back to the 1950s. Marlboro advertised and they had a campaign which had more influence on society than any other advertising campaign. Originally, Marlboro was a women\u2019s brand of cigarettes, and it targeted women because they had these filter tips, because they knew in the 1950s that, actually, there was harm from smoking cigarettes. So they first of all targeted women by saying \u201CIvory tips to protect the lips\u201D. They also went on with the Camel cigarette brand to have doctors used in advertising, and their slogan was \u201CMore doctors smoke Camels\u201D. So we know that advertising is a really powerful tool to change the minds and persuade the populations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo what they did with Marlboro was that they used macho, masculine types of characters, and then eventually they settled on the cowboy because he was a strong, hard-working, silent man in a hat, with spurs. They had this tagline: \u201CCome to where the flavour is. Come to Marlboro country.\u201D Now, the influence of this advertising campaign saw Marlboro become, in a very short space of time\u2014in one year\u2014the fourth-largest tobacco company in America, and within four years it was the biggest tobacco company across the country. The influence was absolutely huge, and, in fact, 90 percent of schoolchildren knew who the Marlboro Man was, yet they weren\u2019t targeting children. However, at least four of the Marlboro men died of smoking-related diseases. Probably the most famous of them was Wayne McLaren, who died at 51 years old, after 25 years of smoking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo we know that tobacco companies are masters at advertising, and we have in New Zealand\u2014and my colleague from across the House Matt Doocey talked about it in his contribution, about the advertising: we don\u2019t know how much money is being spent in New Zealand, because we haven\u2019t taken that data and had a look at what they are advertising in terms of dollar figures with vaping. But we do know that they are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. Half a dozen large vape clients in one media company are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. One client in particular is spending $200,000 on a campaign. They are finding creative ways to skirt around rules and regulations. Maybe if it\u2019s a visual for a digital advertisement, they\u2019re using things like a very gorgeous looking woman, and instead of a cigarette in her fingers, she\u2019s holding a piece of broccoli. There\u2019s no mention of the word \u201Cvaping\u201D. There are no other words other than very small ones at the bottom that will be the logo of that particular organisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EThere is one company, JUUL. Their vape is like a USB stick. They are called the iPhones of vapes because their cool tech makes people, young people in particular, attracted to vaping, addicting a whole new generation to nicotine. So we know that vaping and the advertising ban that will come in place with this piece of legislation is extremely important to protect, in particular, our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to finish my contribution by acknowledging the work that will be done in the select committee, but also too the connection that New Zealand First and the close work we\u2019ve been doing with Action for Smokefree 2025 over the past 12 months to ensure that we get world-leading legislation that has been properly peer reviewed internationally. Action for Smokefree 2025\u2014I\u2019m sure they will come to select committee, and we look forward to their contribution on this piece of legislation. This is a very sensible bill that we\u2019ve worked with our coalition partners on, and we very much are pleased that it is here today for its first reading. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00228a106e935aa94b19b0440e32ea974ce7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a106e935aa94b19b0440e32ea974ce7\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Let me begin with a positive, and that is to acknowledge the fact that, in the House this morning, we have heard some very intelligent contributions on this important issue from all who have spoken, and I want to thank them for that. But there is no getting around the fact that, as the Hon Michael Woodhouse mentioned earlier, this is certainly not only about time but, frankly and shamefully, well past time. I do want to acknowledge, as a couple of my colleagues have done, the Hon Nicky Wagner, who has done an outstanding job in providing not only leadership in this issue but in also doing all the work. Because we are, essentially, here belatedly acknowledging\u2014and, I hope, ultimately enacting\u2014the fine work that the Hon Nicky Wagner, National Party MP, former Minister under Sir John Key and Sir Bill English, did, and which was available more than a year ago and should have been enacted at that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EMembers of the Government ought to be shaking their heads, or, rather, hanging their heads in shame, as they acknowledge\u2014and their heads are all down at the moment\u2014the fact that this could have been dealt with by now. The important measures of this bill could already be in place, had they taken action, and the Minister in charge of the bill has to take responsibility for that. She\u2019s a very pleasant person, and I acknowledge that. I have no pleasure in attacking her, but we have to lay the blame at her door and also at the door of the Leader of the House for failing to organise their legislative programme, in such a way that an important measure of this type has just not been dealt with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo as I say, this is a National Party bill, and for that reason, we are naturally going to support it. The reason I\u2019ve laboured that point at the outset is because what we will not be supporting\u2014in fact, what we on the Opposition side of the House will be opposing as strenuously as possible\u2014is the proposal that has been indicated by the Government to move for a shortened select committee process in order to deal with this bill. Well, they need to be reminded that they are a Government who have spent more than two years enacting very little of their own work. A huge amount of what has gone through the Parliament the last two years has been bills that they inherited from the previous National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EEven more importantly, even though the work that we\u2019ve been dealing with has largely been unopposed for that reason, their members\u2014including, at times, senior Ministers\u2014have come down to the House, night after night, to filibuster on those bills, and some of them are in the House this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226834bd24c0cf4507a01a87d6fb5e4c8a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Did Faaf do that? Faaf wouldn\u2019t have done that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cf6b5c455ce448bb995c766177fb5d9\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: He did, among others. They have filibustered on bills that had no opposition in order to drag things out, because they didn\u2019t have any work of their own to introduce to the House, and now here they are, just six months out from a general election, thinking, \u201CYikes. We\u2019re running out of time. We do actually need to get on and do something, and in order to do that now, we will have to inflict upon the nation a constitutional outrage of a shortened select committee process, which denies members of the public the opportunity to have their say to make detailed, considered submissions and to be able to appear before the select committee to talk to those submissions and to raise questions and hear answers.\u201D, and all because the current Government has been a chaotic shambles that has been completely out of control of the legislative agenda during its time in office to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226363d2bffe7b48238fd45402f51936c0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: And now we can come to the bill, OK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022952b3ab3ccc44c5d8e674b990ee2bae3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I feel I have been speaking on the bill, Mr Speaker. Now, I\u2019m not on the select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00c1c3d51aa460ba29b544ad2932ed9\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f54240ab322d47f59b3334b8f36eb8b8\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I have occasionally been subbed on to it. It\u2019s nice of Mrs Marcroft to say that she\u2019s pleased about that. I actually thought that we\u2019ve worked quite constructively together when I have been on that committee. I am on National\u2019s health caucus committee, and so I will follow the issue very closely. I do wish them well in their deliberations, and, as I say, I have respect for all the members of the Health Committee. When I\u2019ve sat on it, I\u2019ve been impressed by the work that they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221900e5e2605b4b5eb6187ea289bc46e3\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: And the morning tea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220663e1ddc7e4420ab6d9e76c24897e80\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t often had the opportunity to enjoy the morning tea, Mrs Marcroft, but please let me know when you\u2019re providing it and I\u2019ll do my level best to make sure that I return to the committee and get subbed on, if only for the 20 minutes when it\u2019s made available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ENow, this is an important issue because we know that many people are still dying in New Zealand of smoking-related illnesses every year. Fortunately, it\u2019s trending downwards. I\u2019m delighted that there are far fewer people smoking than used to be the case, and this vaping legislation is an important part of trying to continue to achieve our drive towards a smoke-free Aotearoa policy of 2025, which I think most people are strongly committed to; certainly most members of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI recognise that giving up smoking is a difficult thing. I haven\u2019t been a smoker myself other than, as Mr Woodhouse acknowledges, when I too, as a young fellow, occasionally did silly things at inappropriate times that would have caused my parents consternation, but I haven\u2019t actually been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cacb500ced146e8938d51ce8457cc80\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Cannabis!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f452c30eebe9459fb789f26a1c70563f\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Well, I\u2019ve already been pulled up by the Speaker once, for speaking irrelevantly and I really don\u2019t want to tell him what I might have got up to in my school days, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922c2d7d7e594b7786b323d4ff144f23\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220625312ac7064d0198e38356dda650c3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m delighted you\u2019re interested\u2014I\u2019ve lost my train of thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c1acf410c348a98f8dd23f2da80042\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, sit down then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc50917b35604c328dedd0de8ab216e8\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: The important thing is\u2014no, no. I\u2019m pleased to say that even when I lose my train of thought, Mr Jackson, I\u2019m far more coherent than you ever have been in any of your speeches. I\u2019m back on track now because, of course, what we are talking about is the important drive to reduce smoking in this country\u2014ideally, to stop everybody smoking. I think we all acknowledge the fact that vaping has an important role to play in that. The health officials and advisers all tell us that\u2014as long as we get the balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThis bill is about trying to get the balance right so that we provide vaping options for those who are trying to quit smoking without doing anything that encourages vaping as a cool activity, particularly for young people who might not otherwise have taken up smoking. And I\u2019m sure all MPs, certainly electorate MPs, have heard regularly from school principals and health workers and others about their concern that we mustn\u2019t create a regime whereby vaping becomes the next cool option. There\u2019s already some evidence that it is. We want to try to ensure that that doesn\u2019t become any more so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo let me just focus on a few of the key provisions of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ef6be313dc4b9aba913dd0cd996431\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that would be nice!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225594c6bef60d4e349f29727bf228d31c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already alluded to some, Mr Webb, but actually, given your particular interest, I want to draw attention to some aspects of the Government\u2019s bill that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bba8888998a408b901e8a700df37945\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh, we can\u2019t wait!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b2d390f3ade4247ac45f86635867674\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Goodness me. Aren\u2019t they excitable\u2014aren\u2019t they excitable! Clearly I\u2019m hitting the spot. They didn\u2019t like being reminded of how incompetent they\u2019ve been\u2014did they?\u2014but fortunately, because they\u2019ve picked up the Hon Nicky Wagner\u2019s fine work, this bill would prohibit sales to under 18-year-olds. I think that\u2019s important. We don\u2019t want young people walking into the shops and being able to access vaping materials. We hope that their parents and caregivers would be able to influence sensible choices and be able to control the decisions they make. You can\u2019t always control what a 14- or 15-year-old might do, but I think this is the right position for the bill to strike. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt would allow health professionals to recommend that people take up vaping in place of smoking. Obviously, we want that to be the better alternative if they are going to do one or the other. It would ensure that there are appropriate rules around advertising. That\u2019s vitally important. As a child\u2014and I think Mrs Marcroft was talking before about Marlboro adverts; I remember them and they were actually very appealing\u2014I remember we used to have posters of them. You\u2019d rip them out of the paper or the magazine, and you\u2019d stick them on your bedroom wall. I do remember having pictures on my bedroom wall of the Marlboro Man or whatever it was, on his horse, with his cigarettes. My parents didn\u2019t object to that as long as I wasn\u2019t smoking under the bed covers. Fortunately, we\u2019ve moved light years away from that. I guess I\u2019m showing my age in even admitting to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut coming back to the bill, and I shouldn\u2019t say that because I\u2019m going to get another silly interjection from the other side, it is important, obviously, that we try to discourage that sort of inappropriate advertising and that we set quality standards and it of course does require the Ministry of Health to approve products and prohibit vaping in smoke-free areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn the short time available, as the shadow Attorney-General, can I just note that the Attorney-General has put forward a report suggesting that this is in contravention of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act because of the constraints on advertising, as he is required to do. I respect the report that he has given, but I also believe that it is appropriate, and there\u2019s ample precedent for this, not to allow that particular report to dissuade the Government from proceeding with this. It\u2019s his important role to focus on that aspect, but there\u2019s a more important overarching objective here, and there is ample precedent, as I say, for the Government to override that particular report. But I just wanted to acknowledge it because that is one of the portfolio responsibilities that I have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, I\u2019ve thoroughly enjoyed this contribution. I\u2019m delighted that members of the Government have as well and I do commend the select committee in the work that they will do. Let\u2019s get on and pass this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3c9a024b9364272a020276d9b5b91d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3c9a024b9364272a020276d9b5b91d3\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. In light of the fact a number of people are sharing their past experiences with the culture in which they grew up, around smoking and tobacco and cigarettes, it probably is incumbent on me to talk about my experience when I was thrown out of class\u2014I think in year 1 or 2\u2014at primary school\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0648f25a4624803af2218935144cbec\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: For smoking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e541d2e19f37436aa46df18a7053c075\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Not for smoking, Mr David Seymour, but for creating a small business in class whereby I cut up pieces of paper and emulated what I saw my dad doing, which was to create rollies, cigarettes, and I sold them for about 50c each. That was how cool smoking was when I was in primary school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EFast forward a number of years, about 20, and my little brother is now 13 years old. I\u2019m really stoked to say that smoking is no longer seen as a cool thing for kids of his generation. However, it is unfortunate that when he finds himself on the internet falling down the rabbit hole of YouTube videos, he is exposed to advertising for vaping, and that has led him to think that vaping is really cool and that it may actually be harmless. So what we need to be talking about here is figuring out how we strike the balance between harm reduction\u2014recognising that vaping is a really important tobacco smoking cessation device and that we need to have some consistency in our approaches to addictive substances, which I\u2019ll get to later, but also that what has occurred so far with regard to vaping and the market that has emerged around it has occurred as a result of self-regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve seen in that process of self-regulation is that there has been advertising. There has been advertising, which some would argue appeals to children, and there has been the likes of these YouTube ads, but there\u2019s also been what some may be familiar with here, known as influencer marketing. That is the more subtle way of having people who have profiles online utilising these products in their daily lives and presenting them as cool or important in their daily life. I think that that form of marketing needs to be all the more transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut I diverge from the point of this legislation. The importance here is that we have the potential to get more people off of a really harmful, addictive substance. It\u2019s really critical that we acknowledge as well that vaping is not 100 percent safe. In fact, it also comes with its own raft of potential health ramifications; a number of which we\u2019re still researching and are coming to light. But they are still far less harmful than what we know with the decades of research that we have amassed on the smoking of tobacco. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOne of our bottom lines in working with the Minister the Hon Jenny Salesa in supporting this legislation, as the Greens, was to make sure that we didn\u2019t cut things off at their knees in that potential for smoking cessation, so that we didn\u2019t move ahead with what was floated in the cultural conversation around potentially removing all flavours, bar three. The important thing to us is that there were limits to access, particularly for younger people. But for those who were getting off of tobacco smoking and moving towards vaping, if it was a certain flavour that got them on board with that, then they should still be able to go and purchase and utilise that through a specialised shop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I think the other really critical thing to speak to here, and what some have conflated this conversation around vaping regulation with, is the number of deaths that have occurred overseas, particularly in the United States. It\u2019s important that we put on the record that all of those vapes that were associated to those deaths and to those illnesses\u2014colloquially known as \u201Cpopcorn lung\u201D\u2014are vapes that came off of the unregulated black market. That is the importance of regulation here. This experience that we\u2019ve seen, with vaping moving towards self-regulated kinds of standards, but also through the black market, to me really emphasises the importance of regulation and the consistency that we should have around a harm reduction approach when it comes to all substances. I\u2019d like to say that the Greens are probably the party with most coherent kind of approach to all substances\u2014that being that we would like to see similar kinds of standards applied to alcohol, with regard to the reduction or complete removal of the ability to advertise and sponsor. I\u2019d love to see the major political parties in this place take up that mantle, particularly given that it was work progressed under the former National Governments, which they kind of dusted under the rug, but, again, I digress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat we know\u2014and this is research out of the Global Commission on Drug Policy, which canvasses both licit and illicit substances\u2014is that you see the peak in societal harm with the use of a substance when the supply of that substance is controlled either by the underground black market under a complete prohibition, which is what happens when we force substances or practices underground, or when you have a complete free market; that being complete corporate control. In both of those instances, in both of those polar ends of the spectrum, you have entities that have an incentive to exploit vulnerable communities in order to make a quick buck. So what we\u2019re trying to do here is to narrow that spectrum away from those extremities and to introduce regulation that reduces access, reduces harm, and changes the cultural conversation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d invite any New Zealanders who are interested in this conversation to submit before the select committee. We are really looking forward to watching how this progresses. It\u2019s been fascinating watching, in particular, regulation unfold in the United Kingdom, who jumped on this quite a while before us\u2014about a decade ago, I believe. They have put forward some really meaningful approaches, which we\u2019ve adopted, actually, in this legislation\u2014including the ability, I might add, for health practitioners to give advice and recommendations about vaping products to a patient or client who is looking to move away from tobacco smoking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe bottom line should be that we are not trying to create a new big tobacco market. We are not trying to create a new addictive substance that can cause more harm in our communities. We are trying to offer sensible regulations for tobacco smoking cessation, and at this point in time, the Greens think that this bill strikes the right balance. Looking forward to hearing from members of the public. We are proud to support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9fd64d61ccd40a49e7c534e2098ffea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9fd64d61ccd40a49e7c534e2098ffea\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a rise and speak to the first reading of the vaping regulation bill. May I start out by saying to this House: what has taken us so long to get here? We gave this House everything, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge the Hon Nicky Wagner. How good is Nicky Wagner, everybody? She did a tremendous amount of work to research and put a law together in the member\u2019s ballot 2\u00BD years ago. And what has this Government done since then on this issue? Nothing. And it is appalling, that we are here 2\u00BD years later, where the public of New Zealand and the sector itself have had no certainty over the regulations for the sector. It is, frankly, appalling that it has taken us so long to get here today, not to mention the harm that is being caused, potentially, to our youth in New Zealand, but also to the business sector. I come from an area of Northcote, and there are many businesses, and some who have gone out of business because of the lack of certainty and the threat of regulation over this sector. I welcome the opportunity to vote in favour of this law, but it is frankly appalling that it has taken us so long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EFrom where I sit, the benefits of vaping are becoming clearer by the day. It is a fantastic cessation tool. I must disclose that I have been a smoker in the past. I\u2019m not proud of it. Thankfully, I haven\u2019t smoked a cigarette in quite some years. This is a bill that will do a tremendous amount of work to those remaining 16 percent, 17 percent of New Zealanders who are smoking, and will help them, in fact, transition away from this terrible product.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also going to help us achieve our 2025 smoke-free goal. I want to acknowledge that it is an aspirational goal. Whether we get there will depend on the success of initiatives like this but, certainly, we all remain committed to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut I also want to talk about the economic opportunities of this legislation, and what it will do to give certainty to those who are manufacturing, supplying, or selling these products to New Zealanders, and talk about the economic job opportunities as a result. I must say, I\u2019ve got scenarios in my own community of Northcote of businesses that have bloomed because of the rise in vaping in New Zealand, but they need the certainty to know that this is done in a way that is consistent with the law, and therefore this law is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EResearch backs this up, that there are fantastic benefits. I want to call out the work the Cancer Society has done for researching this and providing us, as parliamentarians, fantastic resources to research the extent of the benefits, but also some of the costs as well from vaping. Some of those costs are very clear. While it is a good cessation tool for some, on the flip side it also has the potential to actually have a gateway effect for our youth, which is why, in fact, this law is so important, to provide safeguards, and to actually say, \u201CLook, if you are under 18 and you want to vape, don\u2019t vape. You cannot vape in this country.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ENational is a fan of sensible regulation. We\u2019re not a party of unfettered access to products. Well, even people like Adam Smith would appreciate regulations, because regulations essentially allow the playing field to work in a sensible manner and allow businesses and agents to get on with the practice of doing their transactions and business in a legal matter of fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut I must come back to the point. We are here after two years of inaction of this Government. It is appalling that now we are here, 2\u00BD years later. We are 2\u00BD years behind the ability to actually have this in our society. We are 2\u00BD years down the road of potentially harming our youth, providing uncertainty to businesses, and it is now incumbent on us to ask ourselves, \u201CWhat is the correct process for this bill to go in?\u201D I know we\u2019re going to come to that very soon, but it is very concerning that now, six months before an election, 2\u00BD years after sitting on their hands and doing nothing, this Government now wants to rush this legislation through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI do raise this because there are a lot of people that we\u2019d want to hear from in the select committee process. Just to disregard the constitutional arrangements that we have, in order to fit the Government\u2019s time line to get this through so that they can go out there and say, \u201CLook what we\u2019ve done on vaping.\u201D, is, I think, irresponsible and poor policy-making in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI look forward to hearing from the vast array of people that this law will affect, people like children. How is it going to affect them? You know, I talk to kids in my electorate of Northcote. School principals\u2014really want to hear from a vast array of school principals about how this law is going to work. Vaping firms\u2014I\u2019m really keen to hear from them around how we can encourage job opportunities at the same time as addressing some of our health concerns. Researchers and organisations like the Child Cancer Foundation and the Cancer Society\u2014I\u2019m really keen to hear from them about the most up-to-date research that has been done on the positive effects and the negative effects of these products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThings like flavours\u2014that\u2019s one thing that I think we should discuss in select committee, which is what are the effects of flavours. Actually, do we need flavours or do we not? I\u2019m agnostic on that question. I just think it is incumbent on us as good policy makers to have a robust debate around subjects like flavours. That requires that the select committee process be, in fact, consistent with all other laws that we\u2019ve been talking about here since I\u2019ve been a parliamentarian.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo we support this bill. We support the work that the Hon Nicky Wagner has done, the hard yards to get this law together. We look forward to discussing in select committee some of the nuances of it. There are parts of Nicky Wagner\u2019s bill that haven\u2019t made it into this draft law around things like child protection. Back when I was a teenager and going on to the fields at Howick College and smoking cigarettes, we had these child protection devices on things like lighters, so it seems rational that we ought to actually think about what are the protections that we should put in place to protect the youth of today and tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EIt is far time that we discussed this law\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022750e7acacff94332b276261b982290a9\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Far time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bed53f1e2a44e93826135216cc6cf5a\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is beyond the right time to discuss this law. I\u2019m so excited about this law and the fact that it has taken us 2\u00BD years that I\u2019m making slight grammatical errors in my speech. But what I want to say is this: this is fantastic that today we are discussing this law. It is, in fact, sad that we are discussing it today, two years after than we should. So we support this legislation to select committee. We do not support any shortening of the process. We want to hear from the correct and full amount of people that wish to submit. We\u2019ve got to get this right. Good policy-making requires that we hear from everyone that this bill affects until we get it right, until we put in the nuances in this legislation. We support it to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022868d6449bad348288f48d782cd403aa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022868d6449bad348288f48d782cd403aa7\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. There was a lot of second-hand smoke in that speech then. Going around once, twice, three times, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, this is a great piece of legislation. It\u2019s timely to move on. There are a lot of unknowns in respect of vaping, and that is one of the gaps. That is why we need some good regulations around it, to empower the Ministry of Health to take the right steps when we get the facts around it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe know we need limits on advertising. The Attorney-General\u2019s opinion gives us some views on that. I know the select committee will look very carefully at striking the right balance between freedom of speech, use of intellectual property, and ensuring that we don\u2019t have the sale and unfettered advertising of dangerous products. There is work to do. The select committee is well placed to do it. I commend this bill to the House\u2014a great piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u002286d891fab9a4431c804057375ebcca11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d891fab9a4431c804057375ebcca11\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to make a contribution on this, the first reading of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s a much awaited bill, and, as with all bills that come before us in the House, it\u2019s incumbent on us as legislators to make sure that what, I guess, our mission is in terms of the outcomes for this piece of legislation meets the expectations that New Zealanders have on this bill\u2014on vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EWith regards to vaping, I do support the use of vaping as a tool for smokers to get off smoking. It\u2019s something, actually, that I didn\u2019t know much about, and I was pleased that we had H\u0101pai te Hauora, who invited MPs to a breakfast session in Parliament last year to discuss this very topic. So I went along, because I didn\u2019t know much about vaping, and was pleased to have a very good session. We had people in the policy area and research, but more memorable for me on that particular session were a couple of women who gave very personal testimonies around their journey with smoking and the challenges they\u2019ve had in trying to quit smoking. So to hear from them their personal experience around how vaping has been a real game-changer for them in getting them off tobacco and into something that is less harmful, but also more cost-effective. So I want to acknowledge H\u0101pai te Hauora for the work that they are doing in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI also want to say that we are here, ultimately, to make sure that we have got better health outcomes for our communities. The other side of that coin here is that we have had parents and teachers and principals who have been fairly vocal about the lack of any regulations and guidelines on vaping, particularly in terms of our young people and our teenagers. So that, as I say, is pleasing that this bill has finally arrived. So I say m\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito to the Minister Jenny Salesa, but I also want to acknowledge\u2014as has also been mentioned by my colleagues here\u2014the work of the Hon Nicky Wagner in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to say that even though there has been quite a significant delay in getting this bill to the House, I do urge the Government members that it would be really important that we get the settings right in this bill and that we do allow a full select committee process so that we can hear from the organisations, the families, the teachers, the parents, and men and women like the ones that I heard last year, who talk about how vaping has been an important measure for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EOne of the things I do note is that one of the women talked about flavours. As a parent with children, when we hear \u201Cbubble-gum\u201D, that evokes a sense of something that is targeted to children, but this woman spoke about how particular flavours were a key part of vaping for her. So I think that engagement around flavours is an important one. I do note, I think, in Part 4 of this bill that one of provisions there is around generic retailers that are not specialist vaping shops\u2014they would only be able to sell tobacco, menthol, and mint. So I think it\u2019d be good to allow a full discussion around how flavours impact this as well. I\u2019m pleased that this bill is here and I commend it to first reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9a2f28f7e534758811d9788b5f8be98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9a2f28f7e534758811d9788b5f8be98\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to this bill, but there\u2019s one part that ACT could have supported, and that is the restriction on the advertising towards and the sale to minors of vaping products. In the Epsom electorate, principals of our schools are beside themselves at kids getting access, perfectly legally. We have stories about people in the back alleys of Newmarket with suitcases of vaping products that they are selling to kids legally. This Government for two years has done nothing about it. Stunned like possums in the headlights, they haven\u2019t been able to do something as simple as banning the sale of vaping products to children and the advertising targeted at children. If they were to bring forward a bill like that, I\u2019d vote for it and I\u2019d support them rushing it through select committee to get it done as quickly as possible, but that\u2019s not what they\u2019re doing. They\u2019re doing the worst of all worlds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EYou see, vaping is one of greatest\u2014in fact, probably the greatest\u2014success story in ending smoking: one of biggest killers in our country. Except, and here\u2019s the problem, vaping has been a private enterprise success story, and this Government can\u2019t handle that. If people doubt that vaping is saving lives, let me recount a conversation on a plane with one of New Zealand\u2019s foremost public health experts from the University of Auckland. I asked him, \u201CWell, honestly, what do you think about vaping? Is it really safe or is it really saving people\u2019s lives?\u201D And he said, \u201CWell, last year in the United States, 400,000 died from tobacco and one person died from vaping, so what do you reckon?\u201D I thought he put it pretty clearly. Of course, he\u2019s backed up by the evidence that vaping is saving lives, because it\u2019s the nicotine that addicts people, but it\u2019s the tar that kills. Because vaping does not have tar in it, it is saving people\u2019s lives when they satisfy their nicotine addiction by vaping instead of tobacco. That\u2019s the right thing to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat does this legislation do? Well, it restricts the advertising and it restricts who can sell flavoured vapes. It makes it harder for people to find out about and access vaping that is safer than the smoking and the tobacco that\u2019s killing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI met another man recently\u2014a man from China, originally\u2014who had a job he didn\u2019t like very much, and he thought, \u201CI\u2019m going to promote vaping within the Chinese community.\u201D Well, within a year he had helped 15,000 people convert to vaping. How many bureaucrats in the Ministry of Education have helped 15,000 people in an ethnic minority quit smoking in a year, and do it while making a profit? I think I know the answer to that\u2014not many, if any. This is private enterprise helping people be healthier, and what this Government is doing is banning people from being able to advertise their wares and access people who need help and promote their product. How are they going to do it? How are they going to manage which stores can sell flavours? Presumably the Government is now going to have some sort of taste testing regime or some sort of regime for measuring the amount of flavour in a particular liquid\u2014that\u2019s the only way they can do it. So we see even more bureaucracy that is not going to make people safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn actual fact, it\u2019s going to stop people from entering into contracts to buy things to make their lives better. It\u2019s actually going to make people less safe, and people are actually going to die as a result of continuing to smoke, when they might have found out about and accessed vaping, which is safer. All of that occurs after two years of delay and this Government failing to introduce very simple laws and regulations that would have said, \u201CIf anyone sells or advertises vaping products to kids, then they will be prosecuted and fined.\u201D The Government should have said, \u201CDon\u2019t be surprised if it uses mystery shoppers to catch them.\u201D That\u2019s what this Government should have done about the problem of children vaping, but, unfortunately, it hasn\u2019t. Instead, it is going to stymie private enterprise efforts to save people\u2019s lives. What a great shame. I\u2019m proud to oppose this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f12aa53d2e594dd8a9ceb9367a18bf97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f12aa53d2e594dd8a9ceb9367a18bf97\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd4d1bb6d1a447f9574868665496a59\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I didn\u2019t want to give him the pleasure of being in the Hansard of my speech or interrupt my flow, but Andrew Little was insinuating\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d0e405e96d401db42bcb2a2658c796\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. The member knows that points of order are to be raised at the time. They can\u2019t be raised afterwards. Maggie Barry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d687a123594f409dc84f408180a71d\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a50aa7e5e64890a5199f8ae250aba2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Maggie Barry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3bbe723fa4477f939dbb0f0331b271\u0022\u003EHon MAGGIE BARRY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak at the first reading of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill. Naturally\u2014and as my colleagues have already said very eloquently\u2014National does support this bill. It was conceived and worked through over many years of hard work by the Hon Nicky Wagner, and this is a piece of legislation that should have been before this House many, many months ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EIn my electorate, Professor Beaglehole lives, and we have had many meetings on the North Shore discussing the merits of vaping, the efficiency of that method to wean people off nicotine and harmful cigarettes. It has been proven to succeed. It is something that I\u2019ve had a lot of discussions about and I can really see that it will help people give up smoking, and it will also help us in our aim, as a country, of achieving smoke-free status by 2025. These are all very good things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe vaping industry is really big business. The global market for vaping products in 2015 was estimated at around about USD $10 billion. The United States not surprisingly, perhaps, has about 56 percent of that market, and there\u2019s 12 percent by the UK, and in varying degrees through the rest of the world. We don\u2019t know, in New Zealand, how much vaping has taken off and is being used because we don\u2019t have any real estimates or even guesstimates about the size and the value of that New Zealand market. The Ministry of Health has sought information through the consultation process that was held a couple of years ago, but the information still hasn\u2019t given us much of a sense of where the market is at. So I think that the select committee process is the appropriate place to tease that out. It is disappointing that the Government is not going to allow more time for that process because I think that this is an argument that is going to be quite subtly nuanced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a lot of people who are uneasy about the way that vaping might appeal to young people, in particular\u2014others have spoken of that. In my North Shore electorate, I know that there are a number of shops that are deliberately designed, it would seem to me, to be appealing to young people. They\u2019re brightly lit, convivial atmospheres, people go in there\u2014young people in particular. I\u2019ve had discussions with my school principals at intermediate and primary school level about their unease about having vaping equipment and vaping being used by very young people\u2014this is under the age of 10. So that to me needs to be very carefully controlled, thought about, and, ideally, stopped altogether. This legislation, obviously with its R18 element within it, will go some way towards doing that. The natural appeal of these places and the flavours and the things that we, perhaps, as older people don\u2019t quite understand are triggers for young people, do need to be carefully thought through and talked through at length, I would suggest, at a select committee level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EFor the smoke-free in cars legislation\u2014which we were speaking of earlier in this House this morning\u2014we had had some exposure on the Health Committee to discussions from young people about that attraction and the flavours and the colours and the general kind of grooviness that vaping seems to have already established in the hearts and minds of some of our young. We need to be incredibly careful about that, and it will be big business. So the regulations that have been, as I said, carefully thought through, the elements within this bill by the Hon Nicky Wagner, I think, will help. So the R18 element\u2014allowing health professionals, as well, to give guidance to people who come to them for smoking cessation; it is entirely appropriate to have conversations with your GP in the privacy of a consultation to establish, you know, how people can transition out of smoking, and using vaping as a very successful tool in that. So, of course, we support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EEnsuring that there are appropriate rules around advertising\u2014people have spoken of this before. Again, I think it\u2019s something that will come through very strongly in the select committee process and it\u2019s something that we, as legislators, need to pay particular attention to. We need quality standards. It is not appropriate to have a whole variety of oils with different titrations within them of the nicotine element. I think it needs to be very apparent. Ideally, standardised systems will be less confusing for people who want to transition out of smoking and into vaping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI think it is really important that the Ministry of Health has a role to approve the products. They are the appropriate place to look at the products, assess them as being fit for purpose and for sale, and also to prohibit vaping in smoke-free areas. Politicians travel a lot on aeroplanes; we are told very clearly not only is it a smoke-free place for cigarettes but also vaping is not allowed. It doesn\u2019t seem to me that we\u2019re too far away, as a nation, from getting people to acknowledge that vaping with\u2014you know, it seems to me, as an observer\u2014a heck of a lot of white smoke is not appropriate to do in confined spaces. The laws that already govern our smoke-free workplaces and restaurants, cafes, and so forth, I think should equally apply to vaping. If there are some exceptions, that will no doubt come out in that select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not quite clear why some of the other measures that the Hon Nicky Wagner put forward have not been included, including that vaping products be child-resistant. My colleague Dan Bidois in the neighbouring electorate of Northcote has already confessed that when he was a young person and smoking, he did find that the cigarette lighters with the child-proofing on them, you know, were there as a barrier. Of course, being a smart young fellow I\u2019m sure he got around it. But I don\u2019t know quite why we would not use anything that would be child-resistant for a vaping product. Also the refilling without leakage\u2014you know, apparently it\u2019s a fairly messy process. I would have thought as a practicality that something that could be incorporated\u2014and the refillable vaping tanks to a capacity of 2 millilitres; I think restricting it makes some sense. But, again, this is something that would be better discussed at select committee so that we can arrive in the right space on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EThe other element that was in the Hon Nicky Wagner\u2019s bill but not in this one is requiring vaping products to deliver this consistent dose of nicotine under normal conditions of use. Again, I think that consistency, standardisation, all of these matters, would be prudent for us as lawmakers to really get our heads around so that when this piece of legislation, which has taken far too long to get to the House\u2014and in the meantime a lot of people, I believe, have lost the opportunity to give up smoking by using the vaping tool. Again, I think of Professor Beaglehole, who has devoted a lot of his professional life to trying to encourage people to see the health problems with smoking. He is very much a fan of vaping. He feels that it is, as a transition tool, the best he\u2019s seen in his, I think, 45 years or so in this space. I think the Cancer Society have taken on, as you would expect for such an organisation, a really strong educational role. They have talked in moderate language about the need to bring people with them and to transition out of smoking, but not to see vaping as something that\u2019s cool, and, you know, another accessory for the bright young things. So I think that their carefully modulated message is something that we, as members of Parliament, and, certainly in the Health Committee, will take on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003ESo this is a piece of legislation whose time has long come, and it should have been here a long time ago. We have offered to work constructively with the Government on this matter before; it is disappointing that they didn\u2019t take us up on that offer and adopt the bill. As I said earlier, I think the political barriers that exist between parties and the lack of cooperation in sensible areas should have resulted in this coming to the House earlier, and for all of the work that was done by the Hon Nicky Wagner to have been available for the good of people\u2019s health in New Zealand. So we support this bill and look forward to it coming to the Health Committee\u2014which is, I\u2019m sure, where it will go\u2014and then to examine it in minute detail. Disappointing, again, that it is a truncated process because I think we have to get the detail of this absolutely right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EWe have to refocus and perhaps use this as an opportunity to engage New Zealanders again in the 2025 goal. I think with the potential legalisation of cannabis\u2014a referendum will decide that\u2014and loose leaf being an enabler there, I personally feel it sends a very bad signal, potentially, for this country to legalise cannabis, to smoke it while we are working hard towards trying to get to a smoke-free 2025. This party would not ever support\u2014well, it\u2019ll be a conscience vote, but I would personally never support having loose leaf cannabis legalised. Shame it wasn\u2019t looked at decriminalising it; that might have had a far more effective chance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022736a5c0b-8df3-4047-ba26-632ba2798b4c\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to digress from the bill; I just cite it as something that has occurred. I feel that with the vaping we have an opportunity, because vaping actually is something\u2014apparently in the United States, for example, cannabis and oils have been used to get high, so I would imagine that that part of the discussion may emerge at select committee. But vaping, as it stands on this bill, is very useful, and I think it will be a great addition to the suite of tools that we need to use, as legislators, to ensure that we are smoke-free by 2025 and that we help and protect the health of New Zealanders who are very keen to give up smoking, and vaping is an excellent tool, which is why I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00229389c303cfb74dca96ac4b41feae48a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229389c303cfb74dca96ac4b41feae48a9\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I in no way wish to trifle with or dispute your earlier ruling. However, I would ask respectfully that you reflect on, particularly, Speaker\u2019s ruling 20/5. There\u2019s a matter that arises when a member is on their feet speaking, is defamed in violation of the Standing Orders, and is required to interrupt their own speech to uphold the Standing Orders and defend themselves. I think it might be reasonable to consider that, as with Speaker\u2019s ruling 20/5, one of the circumstances in which the Speaker might allow a person to raise a point of order at the conclusion of their speech is so that they are not disadvantaged by another member\u2019s actions outside the Standing Orders process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00223f1d3f9b794848388367aa323e77a816\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f1d3f9b794848388367aa323e77a816\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaker\u2019s ruling 20/3 is very clear; 20/5 does not refer to those circumstances at all. They refer to circumstances where, essentially, the Speaker has missed the point. The member should read the report of the select committee, of which I think he was a member when that matter was considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022951e5168e99c41b48e8f8cd9d97210c7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, speaking to that, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd8169a246a1418a932c59af0fed772c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No we\u2019re not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ecbfaab9721438bb33d5e7ffb14efe7\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not what 20/3 says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7105026198471a8aa24d329a027f4f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have ruled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3a64d06212d4255a48304fb95391cb3\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not what 20/3 says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b29cdecdc8458b994dc33c7d781fb7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you\u2019re not sure what 20/3 says? The member should read\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f226ce78c0b84292a87d45a8fe2f435d\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure what it says. It refers to absence from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf670873c3e9489fa41cd34b3f3f3bc7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: 20/3: a point of order must be raised at the time. That\u2019s what it says, and it says it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a7fe49a51e40babe1a5819d8f775d1\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: And it refers to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229550535076ca4eceb6e0f990d2d2fc20\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. We\u2019re not having a debate. I\u2019ve read it to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbb221a2767e4aaf935e4da9bfbb928c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Read the rest of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bc0534361e9445aafdf3f646b15a233\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member want to stay in the House for the rest of the day? Well, he\u2019ll stop interjecting. [Interruption] He doesn\u2019t care. Well, if he wants to go, he should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022152581bc2a8747639e8493dade867cda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022152581bc2a8747639e8493dade867cda\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to commend this bill to the House, to acknowledge the Government and the Minister for bringing what is an important piece of public-good legislation to our Parliament. I want to acknowledge, as well, the National Party for supporting it, for having a brief break from the bonfire of regulations line that they\u2019ve been running the last couple of weeks, which has been called, by Matthew Hooton, a pig ignorant, populist, claptrap piece of politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5d0eafc5f14caf975e40d93205771d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s not relevant. Joining other members\u2019 irrelevancies is not the way of doing things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204c5759127e94280b7b1096e93c4193d\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Anyway, I want to acknowledge the cross-party support for this piece of legislation and the recognition that public-good regulation of this kind should be supported to support the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders. I also want to make the point that the Minister had done a very good job of preparing this piece of legislation in a careful way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI want to point out that we are dealing in this area with an industry that, as has been pointed out, is highly commercial, is highly cashed up, and that, through the course of the legislative process and in the implementation phase, will do what it can to defend its patch. So it was the right and proper thing for this Minister and this Government to take a bit of time to make sure that the legislation that has been brought to this House is as tight as possible and can be implemented effectively without those kinds of problems being created. That\u2019s what a responsible Minister and Government does. And that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done in this case. This is a good piece of legislation. It gets the balance right, and I\u2019m very happy to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002243acaf27d9764354aa93d5409ba6d16f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8, Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000421\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Health Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac3b1371aa0547818665cd5791eb5d26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac3b1371aa0547818665cd5791eb5d26\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 2 June, 2020; and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House; and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a siting of the House; and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193 and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI want to very quickly set out why it is important that we have a shortened time for consideration of this bill at select committee. There are two clear pieces of feedback I\u2019ve had on this bill. The first is that it\u2019s vital that all New Zealanders have the opportunity to provide feedback, to ensure that we\u2019re striking the right balance between protecting our kids, our tamariki, while at the same time helping our smokers who want to use vaping as a quit tool. That\u2019s why the select committee process is so important. The second is that it\u2019s time for New Zealand to have a proper regulatory framework for vaping in place, and that Parliament should work together quickly to get this done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not forget that vaping has been in Aotearoa New Zealand since about 2008. This is yet another\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225a65ef308a204f989e98b8c191cd36a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a65ef308a204f989e98b8c191cd36a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is a very narrow debate, and the Minister is now going beyond it. It might have been relevant in the first reading debate; it\u2019s not now. The history\u2019s not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002266420592007b493c837d0a7dc08d5acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266420592007b493c837d0a7dc08d5acb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I am going to speak in opposition to this motion. It may be contradictory, or it may appear on the face of it to be contradictory to do so, given my criticism of the Minister and the Government for the time that it has taken to get the bill to this point. But for the purposes of this debate, I\u2019m going to use the Minister\u2019s own words. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere are five reasons why I believe that this motion should not be agreed to by the House. By the Minister\u2019s own admission, she has said that this bill is complex. Even if we put aside the fact that she was handed a gift by the Hon Nicky Wagner, she took 2\u00BD years to get to this point. She is now asking the select committee, the stakeholders, the officials, Parliamentary Counsel Office, and everybody else to do the work that she couldn\u2019t do in 2\u00BD years in three months. I find that highly, highly problematic for the democratic process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe second reason why there should be opposition to this bill is that there are, despite the fact that there are very strong similarities between this bill and the Hon Nicky Wagner\u2019s draft bill as a Minister and now her member\u2019s bill in the ballot, there are actually significant omissions to it. I will not go through them; I did so in my first reading speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut there are things that could be made different in this bill with a robust select committee process that I submit is going to be compromised by the shortened report back. The third reason why this should not be approved actually goes to something that I disagree with the Minister on but agree with Michael Wood on\u2014the lack of involvement in the preparation by the Minister and the Government from other stakeholders. Now, she has acknowledged that the people that assisted her in the preparation of the bill to this point were the Ministry of Health and Action for Smokefree 2025. Now, they are very good, important people to consult with in the preparation of good bills, but it\u2019s very disappointing to note, firstly, that the Minister did not take up the invitation by the National Party to engage early so that we could be wholly over the detail in order that we could expedite the bill. We know this has got to get into law. It\u2019s not about delaying this. It\u2019s about actually getting good legislation, and Michael Wood actually said it all when he described the sophistication of the vaping lobby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI have no time necessarily for big tobacco and a vaping lobby that\u2019s going to use sophisticated techniques to get their own way. But in a democratic process, it\u2019s absolutely vital that we see and hear from the people with whom we disagree, in order that we can have a robust discussion and make bills better. Now, we\u2019re going to see them and hear from them\u2014I have no doubt. But had the Minister engaged prior to this point, a three-month report back could well have been appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe fourth reason why I don\u2019t believe this is appropriate is because of the Attorney-General\u2019s advice that this is a breach of the freedoms that are set out in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act that are not justified by the reasons that have been put. And again, I won\u2019t relitigate why the Attorney-General has that. But we\u2019ve got a very difficult job to do now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIf the Government, which was so critical of the Key-English Government for the times when it had New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vets that it did not agree with, and then passed legislation in the face of\u2014and I say it wasn\u2019t a unique thing; the Clark Government did that 14 times, by my count, in its years in Government, so it\u2019s not unusual. But it does behove the select committee to listen very carefully, and indeed, the Standing Orders Committee, on this point, has heard submissions, including from the Clerk of the House, that there could perhaps be a different process under the Standing Orders for when a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vet is tabled with a bill, in order for a greater level of scrutiny and at least the appearance of not riding roughshod over it\u2014I don\u2019t think that that actually happens, but it does behove us to be seen to be considering, and not only just considering, the Attorney-General\u2019s advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s going to take some time, and we\u2019re going to need to get some advice about that. It\u2019s a very complicated position and a conundrum in respect of freedom of expression. The vaping industry, the very sophisticated industry that Michael Wood describes, is having its freedoms curtailed, and the Attorney-General is saying that\u2019s not reasonable. We need to give them a fair hearing, lest there be the potential for a judicial review once the process is completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe fifth and main reason, I think, is that I get the feeling that the Government has forgotten that it is not the executive that passes laws in this land; it is this Parliament. It does so under a select committee process that is time honoured and very, very well followed, and this should be a business-as-usual process. It\u2019s offensive to the select committee process, in my view, for such an important piece of legislation, that has nearly unanimous support across the House, to be treated so poorly. I\u2019m a member of that committee. I\u2019m looking forward to the discussion, the submissions, and the consideration. We work well as a committee, but we\u2019re really, really busy, and in order to be able to consider this bill in the next three months, we are going to have to set aside other material business. We have something like 33 petitions before us right now. We have other legislation, the water regulatory bill, which was being considered yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a9770f729e4d99aeafca7463ab70d2\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, what about coronavirus\u2014that could mean something?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022174869adfbf841f19f6c475aa7684bc9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. Who knows what the Health Committee might need to deal with in the next three months, and to do it properly and diligently, what\u2019s going to give? Are we going to come back to the Business Committee with a request for an extension, because the Health Committee has actually got itself deeply embedded in the role of protecting New Zealanders from a pandemic? And so the select committee does need to have a great deal more control, I believe, over its workload in the next three months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThis is a significant disruptor to that, and I cannot support it, and my colleagues cannot support it. And we know why we\u2019re doing it. I mean, let\u2019s be honest; there\u2019s another date coming up soon. It\u2019s about 196 days away. The Government does want to clear some important business, but it also wants to be able to go to the electorate and say, \u201CLook what we did.\u201D It doesn\u2019t want other members of this House and new candidates to be saying they promised one thing and didn\u2019t deliver it. So there\u2019s an imperative that\u2019s more than just policy. There\u2019s a great deal of politics behind this motion. I understand it; I cannot agree with it. It is not for this House to allow the executive and the Government to curtail what is a very important process of developing and passing good law just by a vote on the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m disappointed. I know there are times when that\u2019s necessary\u2014this isn\u2019t one of them. If the Minister had moved faster to get the bill before this House last year, we wouldn\u2019t be having this debate. It is wrong and I oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002274ffba4561b94820a0f9e56c955db9cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274ffba4561b94820a0f9e56c955db9cc\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to have a call in this very narrowly defined debate, which is really about the report-back date for this bill. I rise to take my first ever call in a report-back debate, because I am shocked that in the interests of good policy-making, we are, in fact, shortening the report-back time line to within three months, I would like to remind this House\u2014to 2\u00A0June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EAs well as echoing the comments of my colleague the Hon Michael Woodhouse, I would like to just raise another point of matter around the industry and the way it\u2019s changing. We\u2019ve heard from the other side of the House how fast this industry is changing and how many products are coming out in the market. There\u2019s research every day done to, you know, bust some of those myths around vaping and shore up exactly what the impacts of this legislation are, and particularly in the US. I just find that we ought to consider having the normal process in place so that we can get a fuller understanding of some of those changes and how they\u2019re actually going to implement and have an impact in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo I think the way the industry changes is actually an argument against shortening this select committee process from six months to within three. Let\u2019s get it right, because we don\u2019t argue over the contents of this bill; we all want to see regulations for the vaping sector. We just want to make sure that it\u2019s done right. I ask this House to reflect on why we have a six-month select committee process. We have that in the law and in our constitutional arrangements for a particular purpose: to make sure that this is a robust and full select committee process, and, Mr Speaker, I know you understand this very, very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974e99655ab447a9b86cd03a9c4684a4\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t bring him into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f669a7c4bb64b02a3efbc2b1ce1ff70\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Not bringing you into the debate on this matter. But coming back to the point of this, the Hon Nicky Wagner put a member\u2019s bill on the ballot in October 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac3fc79fe2441d6b201d9ddec8386ac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat when I stand up. The member spent quite a bit of his substantive speech off the topic and commenting on this issue. I\u2019m taking that into account now and I\u2019m going to hold him very tight to the topic. Historical matters are not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099d8ab096d047888fc2c91a0ff2e4a0\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, what I want to say is this. This Government is asking the House to shorten the select committee process from six months to three months when we\u2019ve had 2\u00BD years where we could have put this in place. And I just don\u2019t think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a683da3812443938e48e2f158a1601e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Second and last warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022163bc71d08214f1db5a1bb4ce3576dfc\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the democratic processes should be curtailed because of the inaction of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EYou know, reflecting on the comments from the Minister around why they want to, in fact, shorten the process, those arguments were not clear at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c318d6ab6f4cf483f61bf38d405018\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What were they? What did she say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd477a57d394cce86b40c6c17b6e8ab\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CIt\u2019s time\u201D; that is what she said\u2014it\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228301a3ef7a134c06b7c5254f48e2a917\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s always time; that\u2019s why we bring bills in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f00bb1b1ea4c4c878632de2c3f4739f4\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, and if we could wait as long as we have for this law, surely we can wait another three months to get it right. I ask this as a genuine question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThe other argument that was made is that the select committee process is important. Well, if it is important, why are we shortening it to three months? So it\u2019s about the importance of getting this law right, because once we\u2019ve got these regulations in place, it\u2019s difficult to change them. So I would ask this House to reflect on why they\u2019re doing what they\u2019re doing. You know, there\u2019s a quote that I like to say often: it\u2019s not what\u2019s often said that\u2019s important; it\u2019s what\u2019s not said. And what was not said on that side of the House is the true reason they are considering reducing this report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f6438d9f36f4642ad517b93160a3e45\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the true reason?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f34d4435f8473784e879bc546c93d1\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because there\u2019s an election on 19 September and they want to show that they\u2019ve made progress on this, given that in the last\u2014well, not reflecting on it but given that they haven\u2019t actually made progress at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo I oppose this motion to reduce the select committee report-back date from six months to three months, and I would ask the House to reflect on this and to vote accordingly. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00228eaa2486d49d467e9c8936e8101f487b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228eaa2486d49d467e9c8936e8101f487b\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want, at the outset, to endorse the five points that the Hon Michael Woodhouse made in opposing this motion. I intended to make three of my own, but I do want to draw the attention of the Government to the interjection that was made at the end of the Hon Michael Woodhouse\u2019s speech, which I think the Government must answer, and I hope that the next Government speaker on his or her feet will do so, and that is: has there been consideration of the huge implications for the Health Committee of the coronavirus outbreak and the potential for an enormous extra workload that that committee will face? As they try to push for a truncated select committee process on this particular bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289df8b25c61f4177b418377d0f85e99e\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not relevant\u2014not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89856914dde4252a532c741f66c574c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I think I just heard Mr Ball say it\u2019s not relevant. Is he seriously suggesting to the country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00225cef8d34ffe5440ab0c190622b0a29d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cef8d34ffe5440ab0c190622b0a29d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise to the member for interrupting him. The time has come for me to leave the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200311fc600c4b764b4026b4d68caf12ea7edf000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"