"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229489d2aa4caf4a16bef495b0d5fad2eb\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 17 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022624d30a6f7f04e78a30bcba482cf79e7\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 17 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a449d937312478f84e3fdea6ede7ca5\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224aa80a02d25f46318fe7cc85bbfa58c6\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022df193270d1794438b14705b06dfac6cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df193270d1794438b14705b06dfac6cf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for a Government statement and responses on the Government\u2019s emergency economic package, consisting of two 15-minute speeches, seven 10-minute speeches, and one five-minute speech, as agreed by the parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224189a56053de4af6afac979a81cf8a06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224189a56053de4af6afac979a81cf8a06\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ff81506b4054fb69552f6a34b002b5e\u0022\u003EMINISTERIAL STATEMENTS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b986bf906f914448b32844310f26a074\u0022\u003ECOVID-19\u2014Emergency Economic Package\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022708dc38d86514fdaa83f7849c49ffc75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022708dc38d86514fdaa83f7849c49ffc75\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I know that every member of this House, whatever our political differences, is here because we believe in this country and in our people. Today, we face a challenge that requires us to harness every bit of that spirit and give our total commitment to protecting the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders. That commitment is of the utmost importance as New Zealand faces its greatest health and economic challenge in over a generation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOur response in these times must be to put people first. This is a period of time that will test our resilience but also our commitment to each other. He waka eke noa\u2014we are all in this together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s economic package is about cash flow and confidence. It is only the beginning of what this Government will do to support New Zealanders through this time of crisis and lead our recovery and rebuilding. We will fight the virus. We will cushion the blow for businesses and workers. We will position for recovery. We have been and we will be swift, decisive, and compassionate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe global COVID-19 pandemic is wreaking havoc around the world. The virus\u2019s exponential spread has seen whole countries shut down in their attempts to slow and contain the spread. The result has been unprecedented economic and social disruption across the globe, and we are not immune, of course\u2014I cannot and must not sugar-coat this. A recession in New Zealand is now almost certain, with the advice that we are receiving that the shock will be larger than that seen during the global financial crisis. This will affect every part of our economy now and for some time to come. We are going to see many New Zealanders lose their jobs, and some businesses will fail. We will have an extended period of deficits, and our debt as a country will have to substantially increase. Our package announced today and the support that will continue to come\u2014we\u2019ll do our best to cushion that blow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is heartening that we face this with our books in good shape. We have kept net debt low, at 19.5 percent of GDP, which is lower than we inherited. We have worked hard to be ready for the rainy day that has now arrived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is no costless decision in this situation. The economic impacts of the spread of COVID-19 were clear before our decision to extend border restrictions. I stand by the wisdom and the courage of that decision. We are taking decisive action to avoid what we have seen overseas and to implement measures that give us a fighting chance of mitigating the worst here, and I make no apologies for that. Whatever costs we are now dealing with pale in comparison to the loss of life and devastation that would come with inaction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EClearly, there are tough times ahead. I acknowledge the uncertainty and anxiety many people will be feeling right now. I want to say directly to those people: we will get through this together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s economic response package is the largest investment in our lifetimes, designed for the unique nature of the disruption caused by COVID-19. It comes on top of the $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme. I want to thank New Zealand First and the Green Party for their help in putting this package together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe overall investment in the economic response package is $12.1 billion across the forecast period\u2014one of the largest responses in the world on a per capita basis. To give you an idea of the scale of the package I am announcing today, it represents nearly 4 percent of GDP and more than the total of all of the new operating spending in the three Budgets in this term of Government put together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe package has three components: extra support for the health system to enable an increased public health response so New Zealand can slow any potential domestic outbreak, a substantial package to cushion the impact of the economic shock on businesses and workers and to support confidence in the near term, and the first phase of a broader recovery package to support household incomes through the shock and to spur our economic recovery. Obviously, the ultimate recovery package will go well beyond the measures announced today, and this year\u2019s Budget will be the second phase of our broader recovery package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOur first response is a public health one. It is our fundamental duty. It is also the first and best economic response. The hard work and dedication of our health workforce and the personal responsibility that New Zealanders are showing with regard to protecting themselves and others is a great line of first defence. We must continue that work to smooth the curve of the inevitable increase in infections. Today\u2019s package includes a commitment of an additional $500 million to support our \u201CGo hard, Go early, Contain COVID-19\u201D strategy. There will be further support to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EUnder this plan, the health system is increasing capacity and capability. This will mean scaling up public communications to ensure people have practical advice and support to contain the virus and stay healthy and on how to self-isolate; ensuring continuity of care in the community; strengthening our ability to test and trace cases; and strengthening our ability to treat cases. To achieve this, our actions in the next 30 days will be split into two phases. Immediate actions, including a public information campaign, upscaling testing, boosting Healthline, surging containment and isolation procedures, establishing community-based assessment clinics, and a whole-of-system focus on meeting workforce demand and personal protective equipment needs. Our medium-term actions include further support for hospitals and community providers to deal with a surge of patients, and further advice for caring for people at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to pay tribute to the health professionals and staff who are working around the clock to protect New Zealanders\u2019 wellbeing. We owe you so much. Today\u2019s package is a sign of our support for your work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn addition to the significant boost to the health system I have mentioned, we are also introducing a COVID-19 leave payment scheme. This is to incentivise self-isolation by employees, the self-employed, and contractors. Self-isolation is critical to the success of our public health strategy, and we know that some workers are facing barriers\u2014financial ones\u2014to self-isolation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe scheme will provide support through employers and to sole traders and the self-employed for those people who are in self-isolation and unable to work, or who are sick or caring for dependants who are in either of those situations. Employers will still be expected to meet all of their sick leave and other employment expectations. The key parameters for the scheme are an entitlement period of 14 days for those self-isolating, and for the entire period of sickness for those who contract COVID-19. Eligibility is open to all firms, the self-employed, and for contractors, but not for those who can work from home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFull-time workers will receive $585 per week under the scheme. The scheme will be in place for an initial eight-week period, at which point the Government will reassess based on the health situation at the time. Employers will have to sign a declaration confirming that they meet the criteria for receiving this funding. Any false declaration would be committing fraud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EGiven the size and speed of the economic shock that we are facing, we recognise the immediate need to support businesses and workers to cushion the economic impact on households and firms. We want to help boost cash flow and confidence in the economy through this uncertain period. It is why we are establishing a wage subsidy scheme. The scheme will help people stay attached to their workplace so that both workers and businesses are in a better position to adjust to the difficult prevailing conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe scheme will be available to all businesses in all sectors nationwide, and will include the self-employed and sole traders. Eligible firms will be provided a lump sum payment of the equivalent of $585 per week per full-time employee and $350 per week per part-time employee for 12 weeks, up to a cap of $150,000. I want to reiterate that will be a lump sum payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETo qualify, businesses must declare that they have had a 30 percent decline in revenue due to COVID-19, month on month, for any month between January and June this year compared to last year, and that they have talked to their bank about assistance. Employers can make applications for the scheme from today by filling out a simple form on the Work and Income website and making a declaration. The Ministry of Social Development have advised us that they will be able to make payments starting in five days\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAt this point, I want to acknowledge the extraordinary work by the Ministry of Social Development and other public servants in pulling this package together under incredible time constraints. I ask everyone for patience in dealing with public servants at this time. Depending on the uptake, this package could inject up to $5.1 billion into the economy over the next two months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhere possible, we also want people to stay actively engaged with the labour market, or in training. To support this, we have established a $100 million fund to support worker redeployment and training. The first announcement on this will be a package for the Tai R\u0101whiti region in the coming days. The Government is also undertaking work on how to support large and complex employers on a case by case basis, and is working in partnership with banks to understand the impact of COVID-19 on access to working capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI do want to say today that the decision of the Reserve Bank to cut the official cash rate and to delay the introduction of new capital requirements for banks frees up banks to further support customers. The Government and the Reserve Bank are coordinating our actions to support the overall stability of the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s package also contains an indicative investment for the aviation sector that will be finalised in the coming days. It is essential that we keep air routes open to support returning New Zealanders and to keep vital supply chains open, and that we support essential services at our border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s package also implements a number of tax changes to increase businesses\u2019 cash flow and stimulate investment. These changes include the reinstatement of depreciation deductions for commercial and industrial buildings at 2 percent diminishing value applying from the 2021 tax year; increasing the threshold for provisional tax from $2,500 to $5,000, also applying from the 2021 tax year; increasing the threshold for writing off low-value assets to $5,000 for the next tax year before reverting to $1,000 in the long term; and giving a time-limited discretion to Inland Revenue to remit use of money interest\u2014that\u2019s the interest on tax debt\u2014if a taxpayer is unable to pay on time due to the impacts of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also recognise that the Government must provide further support to boost the economy to ensure that a recovery takes hold and that we support our most vulnerable. The first part of this part of the package comprises a $25 across-the-board, permanent increase to main benefits from 1 April 2020; a doubling of the amount paid in 2020 through the winter energy payment; and removing the hours test from the in-work tax credit to assist those who may face variable hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe ultimate recovery package will go well beyond these measures, and I intend to re-orientate this year\u2019s Budget to be the second phase of a broader recovery package. Today is not the day to go into detail about the recovery and rebuilding phase. But for now, let me say this: in New Zealand, we have been here before, with major economic and social crises. In my lifetime, we have seen Governments respond with austerity\u2014an ideology that has done enormous damage to the fabric of our society. We have also seen other examples, such as the first Labour Government, who responded with investment, pragmatism, optimism, and kindness. It is from them that I take my lesson on how we recover and rebuild in a just, fair, and far-sighted manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are in for a fight\u2014a fight against a virus, an outside force beyond our control that is wreaking havoc around the globe. We are up for that fight. There is no better defensive line than the All Blacks, and it is just the same with our people as we face this virus. We are in as good a position going into this as we can be, with net debt so low. We are taking bold and decisive actions to respond to uncertain and unprecedented times. My message to New Zealanders is simple: look after yourself, look after your family, look after our elderly, and look out for each other. There are tough days ahead, but we will get through this together. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia kaha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u002215235ccaeb9641cf8324398cb6ceae59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215235ccaeb9641cf8324398cb6ceae59\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E The New Zealand economy is heading into deep recession, and today is the pivotal day in relation to our economy and our health. Today determines how deep and how long this recession is. It determines whether we come out of this sooner and stronger or later and weaker, and whether many businesses and workers\u2014by their thousands\u2014stay in business and whether those workers keep their job. I regret to say that in this package, which I\u2019ll come to, for some of those businesses there\u2019s not much at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ELast week, Grant Robertson, in the Budget Policy Statement, wouldn\u2019t actually talk about a recession; it was, effectively, in his words, business as usual. I\u2019m glad that Grant Robertson and the Prime Minister now are facing up, with this package, to the seriousness of where we are at today. You go to any business in New Zealand today\u2014from the exporters to the manufacturers to the tourist businesses to the travel agents\u2014and they\u2019d tell you what\u2019s happening in the lay-offs and the four-day weeks and the very significant problems they\u2019ve got with their banks. The same is true\u2014in fact, you talk to any economist, they, like me, have been facing up to this for many, many weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI say to Grant Robertson, in relation to the package\u2014the significant package, $12 billion; $12.1 billion, actually, so they could just be bigger than their infrastructure spend\u2014$12.1 billion is significant. I accept there is, as I have been calling now for weeks, a wage subsidy programme in this. But I say, this shows your confused and your muddled priorities as finance Minister, and I\u2019m going to go through that right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EYou see, Grant Robertson said that it would be the people first. In a $12.1 billion programme\u2014where the Prime Minister has told us we\u2019re best in the world and we\u2019re doing everything right and we\u2019ve got this when it comes to coronavirus\u2014how much does health get? Half a billion dollars; by the way, that doesn\u2019t cover the current deficits that are in the DHBs today, Grant Robertson. You haven\u2019t even done the deficits in the health package in this budget, and the issues that are there right now. It\u2019s too little, too late, and that\u2019s because you\u2019ve prioritised other things\u2014and I will come to that very shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe have a situation in New Zealand right now, when the health officials make quite clear that we haven\u2019t got the ventilators, we haven\u2019t got the overflow, we haven\u2019t got the personal protective equipment and the masks, and we haven\u2019t got the testing equipment that we want. It seems to me that you haven\u2019t put people first in this budget in relation to the crisis that New Zealand and the world has on its hands right now when it comes to health, coronavirus, and testing\u2014as I\u2019ve said a number of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESee, half of the money of this $12.1 billion\u2014fully half; actually, I think slightly more\u2014is over four years, right? They are baking in the things that they want to see, and some of them are OK. But, bluntly, what we see in this package today is money flowing faster into the hands of beneficiaries than the workers and the businesses that will lose their businesses and their jobs over coming weeks and months. You know, that to me is a crying tragedy. The Prime Minister told us repeatedly, actually\u2014dare I say it, she swiped my line, but that\u2019s OK; it was a good one and it\u2019s the right one for the time that we are in and the deep recession that we are facing\u2014her priority, she said, was to keep businesses in business and workers in jobs. But, actually, what we see is being prioritised is the winter energy payment for wealthy, older New Zealanders\u2014not all of them; some of them are doing it tough, and I acknowledge they will welcome that funding. Beneficiaries baked in: $25 more a week. I acknowledge that for beneficiaries on the breadline that will be deeply welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBut I look at the business package and the job support package\u201412 weeks; let\u2019s be clear there: that is not going to be long enough for the crisis we face in New Zealand or around the world. Five hundred and eighty five dollars\u2014OK\u2014capped at $150,000. So let me tell you what that means: that only pays for the first 21 workers full time for the first 12 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESo let me tell you, Grant Robertson, about some businesses that I\u2019ve talked with personally in the last week. There\u2019s a tourism business just outside of Tauranga; it runs a great operation. He has 40 staff. He begged me to fight for stopping the minimum wage halt, by the way. He is laying workers off right now\u2014and your package, Grant Robertson, doesn\u2019t cover his workers. So they will go on the dole, and I suppose they\u2019ll be glad because they\u2019ll get $25 more a week. But your package, Grant Robertson\u2014$12 billion you\u2019ve spent, and you didn\u2019t even cover medium sized businesses in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThis is a situation where I got an email from wool exporters, about 30 workers; they\u2019ve gone to a four-day week. This package does not fully cover them. Now, I acknowledge small businesses and the 12 weeks they\u2019ll get, but there are many tens of thousands of medium sized businesses who are not covered by this package in the way that it has been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAnd they will do it tough now. And this package doesn\u2019t cover them now. It covers year three and year four and the things ideologically that Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern believe in\u2014and I acknowledge they believe in those things deeply\u2014but this package has confused priorities and it doesn\u2019t deal non-ideologically with the issues we face in New Zealand right now today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EOur Prime Minister says she\u2019s gone harder, faster. I don\u2019t see it, Jacinda Ardern, I just don\u2019t see it. I tell you again, and I encourage you: go out, meet any 30-person business anywhere around New Zealand and talk to them about the issues they face and the problems they\u2019ll face this week, next week, and the week after\u2014right now. It\u2019s today that\u2019s critical; not what\u2019s coming, not the nice words you\u2019ll have in due course. It\u2019s right now that matters. I note that this is a package in relation to that $150,000 of best endeavours. Do you know what that means? That means the businesses can take the money and they don\u2019t even need to keep the people in employment\u2014right? That\u2019s not what we did in Canterbury, Grant Robertson. We made sure when the business who needs the money gets the money they keep the workers in work. Radical, isn\u2019t it, but that seems to me what is required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe, in this package, had we had our way, would have invested this money. Now is a time for stimulus, not just reaction. It\u2019s time for getting on with the job. But we would have been harder and faster for those businesses and keeping them in business, and workers and keeping them in work. And that means more wage subsidy, actually, for more businesses than will get this\u2014those medium sized businesses, and, dare I say it, some of the biggest sized businesses who have existential issues as well. And I note, Grant Robertson, absolutely nothing here in this package today in terms of, again, an existential issue for businesses and workers around this country: working capital and guaranteeing some of those debts and problems and issues and loans that they need right now, that they need right now and that you haven\u2019t covered in this budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESo I say: is it large enough? Yeah, I suppose\u2014$12 billion\u2014but the priorities just aren\u2019t right here. Is it easy to access? That\u2019s hugely important and I can\u2019t tell, in the 40 or so minutes that I\u2019ve had, just how easy it will be for those businesses to access. But it certainly isn\u2019t, overall\u2014on the most critical day this year for workers and businesses in this country\u2014aspirational and long term enough in its focus in terms of those businesses and making sure they can see that there is a plan, that there is confidence, because this is a confidence game, have no doubt about it, for those businesses. They want to know that Grant Robertson knows what to do, that he has a sense of exactly what needs to happen here\u2014the stimulus, the things that show the light at the end of the tunnel\u2014and I don\u2019t see us getting out of this sooner and stronger. I don\u2019t see the \u201Cfaster, harder\u201D\u2014or whatever it was the Prime Minister says. I see the slower, less assured, taking the opportunity to prioritise beneficiaries over businesses and workers in this country and what it is that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear about this. Things weren\u2019t rosy even before coronavirus. And I say that because if you can\u2019t diagnose the problem you\u2019ve got you sometimes don\u2019t get the medicine right. We\u2019ve been at 1.6 percent growth. I expect that to be confirmed later this week in the official figures. We\u2019ve got a situation where business confidence, whether it\u2019s farmers and the water problems and climate change\u2014things done to them not with them really make them feel under siege. The small businesses, after industrial law changes and minimum wage increase after minimum wage increase after minimum wage increase, feel set upon and unconfident as it is; even the big players right now\u2014the Air New Zealands of this world\u2014are talking about three-some thousand workers being laid off, and nothing here to date says that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why John Key, Bill English, Steven Joyce, and other colleagues of ours\u2014Gerry Brownlee\u2014they prioritised actually getting us back into black, saving up, making sure we were strong. We were managing the economy well with the team that was competent and had the experience and has the experience to do that. That\u2019s how we got through the global financial crisis, the Canterbury earthquakes, Kaik\u014Dura earthquakes, and others. Ready for another rainy day\u2014well, the rainy day is here. We\u2019re in it. It\u2019s pouring. And I don\u2019t see from the Government, other than pet priorities, confused priorities, the plan, the stimulus that is stronger and that is bold enough to do the deal for New Zealand right now that we require. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe know what to do. We\u2019ve made clear our tax relief programme so that actually those workers, those businesses have that confidence from the stimulus. Infrastructure, the Prime Minister and Grant Robertson\u2014hear this clearly, I say to my friends in the media, here this clearly\u2014they talk about $12 billion of stimulus as if it\u2019s happening now. None of it is happening. I for one remember going to Cabinet with a $1 billion road the length of Kaik\u014Dura in Stuart Smith\u2019s electorate. I remember the special legislation we put in because we knew we had to get it on. We needed to get going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI would support that sort of approach today, bringing forward nation-building infrastructure that this country so desperately needs. I would support that sort of legislation and that sort of approach, but we don\u2019t see any of that stimulus, confidence, a boldness that I\u2019ve been calling on for week after week from this Government. There are many other things that need to be in this plan. Job support\u2019s there, sick pay\u2019s there; the minimum wage help for those businesses that aren\u2019t covered\u2014they need that desperately and they need it now. The underwriting of businesses isn\u2019t there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI could talk at length about health. It is the No. 1 issue. Test, test, test\u2014we haven\u2019t been. We haven\u2019t been. Not even 600 when Norway\u2019s at 8,000. Slovakia\u2019s done thousands more than us. We are not getting our response perfectly right in this area. I don\u2019t mean to be critical. It was good to see something significant in the weekend. But we need to see more pace, and we need to see that harder, faster, like the Prime Minister has talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EYou know, some here say that it shouldn\u2019t be about politics. I agree\u2014I agree. Frankly, on this side of the House I\u2019m too busy for politics right now. We\u2019re talking to businesses, we\u2019re talking to doctors on the front line, we\u2019re talking to concerned New Zealanders. We\u2019ve got a constructive and moral duty to ask the hard questions of this Government. I acknowledge this package, but in the deep recession New Zealanders will be left asking of Mr Robertson: \u201CPlease can we have some more. We\u2019ve worked hard as a country for a rainy day. Give us the plan. Give us the stimulus. We need now\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00220ac08b02f5e3465cbed98e5133d64070\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ac08b02f5e3465cbed98e5133d64070\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2d6b4b589f042ba85c5ff6351b51888\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2d6b4b589f042ba85c5ff6351b51888\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E There are moments in our history where it\u2019s not business as usual, where New Zealanders expect us to come together, when we need unity, not politics as usual. And today, Mr Bridges, is one of those days. And on this side of the House, that is what we\u2019ll do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESaturday was a day when I said that the package we would announce today would be the most significant of my time in this role. Many interpreted that to mean that it was just about the quantum. It was not. It was significant for another reason. The Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson, and I, as you can imagine, met over the weekend and spoke many, many times, but on Sunday he gave me a call, and as we were talking about how we were progressing with the work of the package, he stopped to spend a bit of time to talk to me about some of the phone calls he\u2019d had and emails he\u2019d received from businesses, employers, and people who treat their employees like family. That is the reason this package is the scale it is today. It is about people. This entire Government, since the moment we were elected, has been focused on people, and that is why our response right now, in the wake of what is a global pandemic, an economic issue the likes of which we have never seen before, will put people first and foremost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ENow, our response has meant that in unprecedented times you make unprecedented decisions. We had a window as a nation to take some very difficult decisions, to move early and place restrictions at our border in order to protect New Zealanders\u2019 health. We took that opportunity, and it was a big decision. There weren\u2019t other countries to look to and rely on, because other than Israel, no one like us was making that decision. But we did. And it was the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut these decisions will have an impact, and they will be significant. But a strong health response is our best economic defence. Countless stories, though, do sit behind the impacts of these decisions, and, as I\u2019ve said, I totally acknowledge that, and that is why, as I said, we went hard on that public health response, but we will go just as hard with the assistance that we are providing. And it is about people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s package is designed to cushion the impact as we look to address the impacts on areas where we have traditionally had a large part of our economy facing. We are a nation that likes to welcome and open our doors to tourists from around the world, show off our beautiful spaces, give our visitors an adrenalin rush and show manaakitanga to everyone who comes, and yet our chance to do that now is on hold, and where does that leave so many of our employers who rely on that? Well, today we have been able to provide this response because we have always been prepared for the fact that a rainy day could befall us. As a nation that is a part of shaky isles, who has volcanoes, who experiences extreme weather events, earthquakes\u2014we are a nation who prepares, and we did. We came in and got ourselves in an economic position where our debt was lower that when we inherited it, and we did that just in case we had a rainy day, and it is here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThis package is significant: $12.1 billion represents, as the Minister of Finance has said, the equivalent of roughly three Budgets\u2019 operational allowances. We pulled it together in a short space of time, but we did give it a critique, a lens of people, to give the maximum support we can to try and keep people in work as businesses look to reorientate, to prepare, and to focus on what the future will hold, and what will be a new normal for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe could have done what other countries did: if you wanted to move quickly, in the space of a few days, you could have simply given a bulk payment to business. I know the Leader of the Opposition often looks to our neighbours, Australia, for the kinds of initiatives they adopt. I note with interest that their plan included a business payment of $25,000. It was a cash payment, a bulk payment, a one-off. In our view, that was not going to be sufficient, particularly for the make-up of businesses in New Zealand. We are a nation of 520,000 businesses\u201470 percent of them have no employees. In fact, we thought about that when we designed our sick leave provisions and our wage subsidies\u2014sole traders. The Uber driver people we\u2019re worried about who might have to self-isolate\u2014they are covered by these packages. We have 100,000 businesses\u201419 percent\u2014who have one to five employees; the next group, six to 19; that makes another 7.5 percent. In total, we are covering 97 percent of our businesses in New Zealand with this package, for all of their employees\u2014for all of their employees. And whilst we\u2019ve put in a cap at $150,000, that does not stop a larger organisation with more employees accessing this package as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve also said is we\u2019ve recognised there will be larger firms that might need specific support, have unique circumstances. We are a nation small enough that we can deal with those on a case by case basis, and that is what the Minister of Finance is focused on. The package includes that wage subsidy I\u2019ve described. It includes support for those who may be required by health authorities to self-isolate, and may, for instance, be a food truck driver at a festival who operates their own business and cannot afford to sustain their family while they self-isolate and can\u2019t work. We have thought about all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt also, of course, includes a considerable boost to our health response. I do want to say that on our health front, we are gearing up every day. Every day that we have this additional time we are utilising to make sure our response is ready for the cases we inevitably continue to receive. Our testing, for instance, by the end of the week will be up around 1,500 per day, and that puts us on an equivalent footing with those nations, on a per head basis, in our capacity, such as the likes of Korea. Now our plea is to clinicians: if you believe you should test, test\u2014if you believe you should test, test. The capacity is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe were better placed than most countries in terms of our financial position and in terms of our debt position to weather this storm, and now that means we are better able to respond. I have not seen a nation in the world who has yet put up a package of this quantum, and that is because we recognise our situation is particular. We are an island nation who trades, exports, imports, who relies in many quarters on tourism, and that is why we have gone hard with this assistance package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut the other point I wish to make, of course, is that we have included three particular parts of this package that are designed for consumer spending. I\u2019d say to the Opposition: they used the in-work tax credit during the global financial crisis, and we have to. I would have thought they would support that change. That helps people whose hours drop and who might have otherwise lost eligibility for the in-work tax credit. We\u2019ve doubled the winter energy payment because that goes to over-65s, who we must keep well this winter. It is a practical initiative. And finally, on benefits\u2014again, Australia did the same thing. If you want to stimulate an economy, you give extra support to those on the lowest incomes. Because they have a lower income, they spend it, and that is what our economy needs right now. It is a known tool in situations like this. Other nations are using it, and we are too. I will point out, though, that of the $12.1 billion package, $7.9 billion\u2014$7.9 billion\u2014is focused on continuity for business, certainty for business, and stimulus for business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EMy final word is for New Zealanders. As the Minister of Finance has said and as I\u2019ve said many times before, there is huge uncertainty out there right now, but one thing I\u2019m certain of: we are a nation that has been shaped because of our experiences, and they often have been tough, harsh, and unpredictable. That is when New Zealanders are at their best. That is when we rally: when we look after one another, when we care for the most vulnerable. So my final message is this to New Zealanders: be strong but be kind\u2014we will be OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff4e985e0ba14eb5804ee70480eee22f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff4e985e0ba14eb5804ee70480eee22f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker, and I echo the comments of the Prime Minister in terms of the strength of this country during difficult times. We do look out for each other and are conscious of the strength of our communities and our families, and we\u2019ll work together to get through what is definitely going to be a difficult period over the next few months. We are facing one of the greatest health and economic challenges we have had in recent times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe have all, throughout this House, no doubt spent the weekend hearing messages from individuals concerned about their health, about their kids, about going to school, about getting the virus and the implications of that. We\u2019ve also heard many, many stories from people in business worried desperately about their businesses. I\u2019ve spoken to a number who are employing over 100 people and looking at massive job cuts over the next few weeks, and they\u2019re desperately worried: desperately worried about their businesses but desperately worried about their employees, the people that they have worked with over many years to build up businesses. It\u2019s a big family, in those circumstances, and they\u2019re desperately worried about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we acknowledge this package in so far as it concentrates on wage subsidies in order to keep those businesses going. We do make the point that about half of the $12 billion is focused in that area, and our fundamental view is that, actually, we should be doing more at that end of the spectrum now. We started off talking about how the package should be swift, substantial, and effective, and what we\u2019re seeing here at the moment is that about half of it is swift. We think more of it should have been swift and more of it should have been getting into the hands of those businesses right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the best response of all is the health response. That is to make sure that this health crisis that is binding up the whole of the economy has as short a duration as possible. So we have said a number of times\u2014we\u2019ve encouraged this Government\u2014to be faster and more responsive in the health space. We\u2019ve heard the Prime Minister saying we\u2019ve got the toughest border restrictions in the world, and that just doesn\u2019t mesh with people\u2019s experience. Everybody\u2019s heard of people arriving in the last day or two, coming straight out of the airport, getting a pamphlet, and going on their way. So our strong encouragement is to keep absolutely focused on tracing people as they come in, and getting that message through, and more rigour at the border to ensure that people aren\u2019t coming through who aren\u2019t well and spreading the disease. So that\u2019s the critical response that we need to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EMeantime, the economy: we\u2019re facing recession and job losses and many failures. I did want to acknowledge, right here, right now, that the strength of the economy, the strongest part, of course, will continue to be the primary industries that have been the backbone of this economy. Right now, every day, right out there in the rural areas of New Zealand, the farmers are out there making the living that will sustain us through this crisis. I do want to acknowledge them and their hard work. They\u2019re a group that have felt set upon over the last few months, and I think it is important to acknowledge that in times of crisis, the New Zealand economy falls back on that rural community and provincial community, which is the backbone of this economy. We acknowledge them and their work today, and we wish them all the best to sustain our living standards as best we can through this difficult time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBecause of the decisions made over the weekend around boundaries, we do have this immediate short-term\u2014what we hope will be short-term, but we don\u2019t know how long it will go on for\u2014real economic crisis that we\u2019re facing. It is important that we get all the detail around the decisions that were made over the weekend. We need to see all the advice behind Saturday\u2019s decision, all the advice behind today\u2019s decision, the modelling, and this Government, which is committed to openness and transparency, should release those papers now so that we can understand what the situation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnd we do rest on the fact that we have come into this crisis\u2014this rainy day\u2014with a strong debt situation, and we do acknowledge that, in the first two years of this Government, debt has continued to decline. It had been on that trajectory for a number of years, and we also acknowledge the work of Bill English\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c801b3eb47794491bef3f7f42e686ec1\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: You increased it to 23 percent of GDP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c4e37b30574f8d86baaa9bbde9701e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, and we got through the last global financial crisis, which was a massive expansion of debt, and the Christchurch earthquakes, and we continued to reduce that debt so that we were able to pivot today. Successive Governments have done that\u2014I acknowledge the guardianship of even Michael Cullen and Helen Clark in that period. Over a long period of time, New Zealand has kept debt low so that we can cope in these circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019ve got in this package is the $5.1 billion in wage subsidies, and we acknowledge that and we commend that; that is absolutely the right thing to be focusing on, which is keeping people employed in business right now so that they can carry through this period and increase the chances of businesses staying afloat. Not all businesses will; some businesses will fall over, and some people will lose their jobs, but this lessens the chance of that happening in many sectors. The only point we\u2019d note is that this is the critical issue, and when we talk about helping businesses right now, it\u2019s over the next month that they really need it. This is going to be the critical time; it\u2019s not going to be in four years\u2019 time with depreciation rates. They\u2019re all worthy\u2014the other $6 billion in this package are all worthy. Taxes around provisional tax thresholds and reinstating the building depreciation and writing off\u2014that\u2019s all worthy stuff over four years, but it\u2019s not going to help right here, right now. What we needed today in this package right here, right now was a maximum focus on effort in keeping those businesses afloat, and our frustration with this package is that there isn\u2019t the maximum focus on that hard goal right here, right now. If I was to ask Mr Robertson exactly how much of this $12 billion will be reaching businesses over the next six weeks, it wouldn\u2019t be all that much of it. It would be about somewhere between $3 billion or $4 billion\u2014I don\u2019t know; I\u2019d be interested to get the answer for it\u2014and we need more of that money right now to keep those businesses afloat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe see $126 million put aside for leave isolation to help businesses cope with the costs of that, and we support that; we agree with that. That\u2019s an important part. The thing that is missing, though, is the working capital support for small and medium sized businesses, because what the problem is is that, with so many businesses around the country seeing their revenues collapsing over the next few weeks, they see their sales going down, they\u2019ve got their employees that they\u2019re trying to keep in place, and they\u2019re immediately going to the bank and saying, \u201CWell, I\u2019ve run out of cash. How am I going to pay my bills?\u201D and they\u2019re having very awkward conversations with the banks. Now, the natural reaction for the banks in a situation like this is that they\u2019re feeling the pressure, and they will start calling in on those loans and closing down those businesses. That\u2019s the spiral that we want to avoid, and so the wage subsidies will help to a small extent. It\u2019s been counteracted by the insistence\u2014and, I think, quite reckless insistence\u2014by this Government to carry on with the minimum wage increase on 1 April, because that money is not coming from the Government, it\u2019s not coming from a magical place; it\u2019s coming from those very businesses that are struggling to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe all want higher incomes, but we want jobs as well, and so at the same time as they\u2019re trying to give assistance to those businesses, they\u2019re insisting that they pay substantially more for their wages, and that doesn\u2019t make sense, and it\u2019s reckless. So they\u2019re struggling with their banks in order to keep the cash flow going and the working capital coming through, and we see at the end of this package that the Government has said that officials are meeting with banks to discuss the potential for future working capital support. We think that\u2019s too slow and inadequate. The United Kingdom has already made moves in this area around guaranteeing loans for small businesses, and I would have thought that this package right here, right now would have had some answers on that critical area today in order to get people over the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other point, of course, is having that longer-term vision, and we\u2019ve heard many times the Minister of Finance say that this country went into this crisis with strong momentum. That, of course, is false; we had 1.6 percent growth last year. So those long-term drivers of growth are critical, and that\u2019s why a clear plan around infrastructure\u2014not just announcing infrastructure but actually getting on with infrastructure\u2014is the critical thing, and I absolutely agree with what Simon Bridges says: we would support right here today urgent legislation coming in to say, \u201CThis project and this project we\u2019re going to start next week or the week after. We\u2019re going to crack on to it and actually get the infrastructure spending happening right now in this country, not in one year or two years\u2019 time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, overall, there are a number of other useful things that have been done here and signalled, with smaller business having to pay provisional tax\u2014extending those thresholds, increasing the amount with which businesses can invest in buying capital assets. We agree with all that; that all makes sense. But the critical message that we need to get across is that this is a threat to the New Zealand economy such as we have not seen in a generation, and we need, right now, maximum support to keep people in their jobs. This package announced today goes halfway, and roughly half of the $12 billion package will actually get into their hands immediately. We think that there should be more and it should be more swift and more effective in order to save those jobs. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002214c5de8a5bc0402298c7c779259c7926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214c5de8a5bc0402298c7c779259c7926\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Prime Minister and colleagues, today the coalition Government took unprecedented steps for an unprecedented challenge. That\u2019s the reality\u2014not the greatest challenge in a generation, but maybe since the Second World War. No one understands the dimensions of what we face, but we are certainly getting ready for it. We don\u2019t underestimate the challenge in front of us\u2014the health challenge, the economic challenge, and the recovery challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMost nations face an uncertain future under COVID-19, but it\u2019s no time for us to be clouded by doubt. It\u2019s vital that we demonstrate leadership and clarity, and today you saw exactly that. As the coalition partner, New Zealand First is united in its support. We acknowledge the Prime Minister\u2019s leadership and the work of Ministers who have developed and delivered today\u2019s package. We have many challenges to overcome. The implications of the global spread of this virus are occurring in real time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ea17d70ae074d7ca52c1a6074216400\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Timid! Timid!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda1deb7fd114f58adf34daba0d5792c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: What was that, Mr Brownlee? You want to know where to get a test? In the last few days, we have witnessed rising infection rates, stringent border control measures, cancelled public events, financial markets suffering, plunging visitor numbers, and airline job losses\u2014just to name a few. That\u2019s why, today, the $12.1 billion support package is vital, it\u2019s essential, it\u2019s critical, and it follows a $12 billion package announced only three months ago. This is the biggest injection in recovery any country in the world has seen, when you see it in tandem. The scale of today\u2019s package is already greater than the operational spending of the last three Budgets, as Mr Grant Robertson spelt out. This coalition Government is motivated by protecting the health of our people, protecting our vulnerable, protecting our economic livelihood, and ensuring the quickest possible recovery on all fronts. Make no mistake: this is a critical Government response and a challenge to us all. And as the Minister of Finance has pointed out, the economic package is appropriate by international per capita spending comparisons. There is a massive boost in spending for health measures and an equally big spend to build a real buffer around our economy, our businesses, our workers, and our livelihoods\u2014and we have only just begun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ELet me speak directly to one part of our community, and that\u2019s the elderly. You are our mothers and fathers, our grandparents, and senior citizens\u2014a respected part of our community. You are amongst the most vulnerable to the COVID-19 pandemic. Naturally, many of you will be concerned about what COVID-19 means, both as a health and financial risk. Be assured\u2014and be reassured\u2014the Government is here to particularly help you. As part of the economic package, there is a doubling of the winter energy payment. It will double payments to become $1,400 for couples and $900 for single people. It\u2019s a one-off, but it\u2019s a measure to ensure that the conditions that might worsen this prevalent outside imposter do not prevail in our country. We estimate 850,000 of you will gain from this measure to help you keep warm this winter, and once we include partners of recipients, more than one million are expected to benefit by this measure as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAll New Zealanders will read the news reports about the Government\u2019s actions, but that is only part of the picture. Our greatest weapon is to be found in what each one of us does for all of us. Our individual steps will make the difference in our resistance to this pandemic. Day-to-day, practical health steps are powerful weapons of choice to beat this outbreak. Be careful with hygiene, regularly and thoroughly wash and dry your hands, and follow sound medical advice. Listen to our health officials\u2014they are out there in the thousands, dedicated to helping you. It\u2019s important we look after each other, especially the elderly and the vulnerable in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say, the Government is taking the necessary steps and more measures will be delivered. But I want to refer to the speech we heard from the Leader of the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217a34f63249240cfbd074fba0dac72b3\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Do you have to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c10597f3b34492a5f0939ed2f431af\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Frankly, I do have to because it was shallow and it was graceless, and the New Zealand people will judge him for it. He talked about health and $800 million. He knows the level of the prior\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275b29e94124b479d8953dd59a7cc8fee\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: $500 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226926e96e99ae4d40a8a9a2df8be3b7fd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: $500 million, sorry\u2014$500 million. I\u2019m certain before too long it\u2019ll be $800 million. [Interruption] I\u2019m glad you\u2019re listening! He referred to $500 million, but he didn\u2019t refer to what we\u2019ve inherited and how much money in the billions we\u2019ve already injected into it. And, Mr Bennett, there\u2019s no use shaking one\u2019s head though there\u2019s a good reason why you should. The reality of it all is that this Government is adding a serious top-up right here, right now. And clearly, Mr Bridges, you don\u2019t understand the package announced today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EHe referred to \u201Cbaking in\u201D\u2014whatever that phrase means, it sounded like it was half-baked in terms of his analysis. And then he had the audacity to talk about the debt. Well, the global financial crisis found them with $10 billion in Crown debt, and they took it to what? To $82 billion\u2014$82 billion. [Interruption] And the member for Epsom says, \u201CSo what?\u201D So you don\u2019t understand; that\u2019s what. Never had a business, never had a company mortgage, never had a business mortgage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c5aeedf8b9f483eab2d5a709b555f03\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what happens in a crisis\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219d94c14f7b84d3c9c4d91aa9f3b6086\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I\u2019m not talking about running an illegal casino; I\u2019m talking about real life, where out there there\u2019s going to be a struggle for so many New Zealanders\u2014and this Government\u2019s here to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dbca936dcb48c5b17e8c063c0c7432\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t let them sink with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b37c5c3f1304e399d5f6333243faeaf\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Brownlee, the Christchurch earthquake still has my colleagues wrestling with the outcome nine years later. That member was the Minister in charge of the Christchurch earthquake, and when that first happened I realised that a disaster was coming. Let\u2019s face it: we are facing a crisis here and we have confidence in the personnel, not somebody who jumps up, opens his mouth, and lets the wind blow his tongue around. That\u2019s not good enough. Not in this crisis, Mr Brownlee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EFor example, can I ask Mr Bridges, who compared the struggle he had to find money for the Kaik\u014Dura road\u2014remember that? Mr Bridges, the road between Tauranga and Katikati, how much did you find for that? Come on\u2014can I hear? How much did he find for that? The road, can I say to Mr Reti, from Whangarei all the way down to Warkworth\u2014the four-lane highway that\u2019s seen all these advertisements up there\u2014how many dollars did he and you find for that? Can we hear it now? OK, now, I didn\u2019t want to turn this into a petty matter, because this is a response from a Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209c59c3e18dd49e6a4ecf5c5fcaefe2b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve done well. You\u2019ve done very well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795a1dfb5db34378abae805cf515e571\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I mean, pointing out hypocrisy has always been important. But I want to make it very, very clear: this Government is facing a massive crisis. I believe it\u2019s possibly unprecedented, and we are as hard-nosed\u2014and yet empathetic\u2014to know we have got to get ready for the very worst. And if we do that, we can turn it around faster than any other country. I\u2019ve got confidence in New Zealanders, I really have, but they don\u2019t want naysayers and they don\u2019t want people who are critics and who spend all their time trying to drag them down. We\u2019re all human, there\u2019s going to be mistakes\u2014get past it. In the main, in 99.99 percent of the time people will be doing God\u2019s work and turning this around. So I\u2019m saying to every New Zealander today: the Government is aware of the plight, has a grasp of the magnitude of the event we face. One little thing, Mr Bridges, whenever did you make a prediction that came true?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bbad5e979e443ebb13ae5682225c1c4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: In 2008, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221be515fab944eea9e7a6520060e47f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Just one? No, not once. This is a business, right now, facing a health and economic crisis which requires a resounding quality, and it\u2019s called experience\u2014having known what to do, been there before, seen how it has to happen\u2014and this Government\u2019s exhibiting that classically in this announcement today. We have a very real public health crisis to overcome in coming months, and we will. We have an economic storm to get through in coming months, and we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a58a5ceb09745a3ac15840a5b8fb249\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: No, you won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cb391856d04b3186ec9869149e8da1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Now, there\u2019s somebody who\u2019s shouted out \u201CNo, you won\u2019t\u201D. So he\u2019d rather, for the political preference of his party, that the Government fail\u2014just for the preference of his party\u2014than hundreds and hundreds and maybe millions of New Zealanders get a turnaround result. That is the ultimate in selfish, egregious behaviour, and it came straight from their back-bench. He doesn\u2019t want us to succeed. Not even an offer of hands across the sea\u2014so to speak\u2014so we might have a collegial parliamentary effort. No, it\u2019s going to be lousy politics, and I know the Prime Minister hates this\u2014and so do I most of the time. But I want to say, we have set upon a path of recovery. We have set upon a path to utilise the grind, and the grit, and the talent, and commitment of our fellow New Zealanders. We have utmost confidence in them that we will, together, work our way out of this and back to success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002255019c9a2c3643b9a40cfbd8325eb3b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255019c9a2c3643b9a40cfbd8325eb3b5\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to commence by joining with the Minister of Finance in commending our health professionals for the outstanding job they do for the health of New Zealanders, but most of all for the work that they are going to need to do over the next days, weeks, and months. This virus is going to spread, it is going to hit hard, and the economic package that we are hearing about today, and how long we\u2019re going to need to support workers and businesses and those job seekers who are affected by this, is clearly a function of the degree to which our health system can respond nimbly and energetically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI say more out of sadness than anger that the comments that are made in the ministerial statement about \u201Cgo hard, go early\u201D are hollow in the context of the things that the Minister said about a public information campaign, upscaling testing, boosting Healthline and so on\u2014the things that I and my colleagues have been talking about since 23 January. And there is a need, I think, to reflect somewhat on that before we look forward, because there is still time. It\u2019s pleasing to see the Government responding finally with an energetic package. But is it too late? We will soon find out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EOn that day, Hubei Province, an area of China of 56 million people, closed down on the back of 540 confirmed cases\u2014just 540. The Director-General of Health in his first speech said, \u201CThere will be imported cases, but the likelihood of a sustained community outbreak remains very low.\u201D Why? Because they had the systems and the resources to deal with this. How many times have we heard the Director-General and the Minister of Health say that the likelihood of a sustained community outbreak was very low? It started as \u201Cvery, very low\u201D, then \u201Cvery low\u201D, then \u201Clow\u201D, then they stopped saying it at all. But they had a pandemic plan and it was a very good plan, according to the Minister. Yet in his press release today, he admits now, \u201CStaff in our Public Health Units are our first line of defence against infectious diseases, but they don\u2019t have the resources \u2026 to handle a pandemic.\u201D Well, we haven\u2019t heard that at all in the last 11 weeks. In fact, we haven\u2019t heard much from the Minister of Health at all, who has issued just five press releases since the Ministry of Health first communicated with GPs on 6 January. Weak and late. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI am very mindful of the Director-General of Health\u2014in fact, the World Health Organization was itself somewhat slow, I think, to declare an international emergency. But he\u2019s got it, because his advice at his press conference yesterday was simply this: \u201CThis is a serious disease. Although the evidence we have suggests that those over 60 are at highest risk, young people, including children, have died.\u201D And his advice? \u201COnce again, our key message is: test, test, test.\u201D I have been calling for weeks for a more liberal approach to the testing regime, because it\u2019s only when we know who are the cases who have the virus, who could be at risk of spreading it, can we control this outbreak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWe are spending billions because of the effect of the closures of our borders, for the next weeks and months, yet we\u2019re nickel and diming the testing regime. Now, the Prime Minister in her intervention did say the capacity has now grown\u2014or will, as a consequence of this package\u2014from 1,000 to 1,500. Very good, but, Prime Minister, there\u2019s no point having the capacity if it\u2019s not used. We have 9,950 people who are or were in self-isolation since that requirement was put in place, but we\u2019ve had 540 completed tests. That\u2019s only 5 percent of the people in self-isolation, Never mind the people who could have been tested, who wanted to be tested, whose employers told them that until they were tested, they weren\u2019t allowed to go back to work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhy are we nickel and diming that? The Minister and the Prime Minister say it\u2019s over to doctors. Well, that\u2019s not what doctors are telling us. Doctors are saying they\u2019re being stopped from testing and that the criteria are far too narrow\u2014two things: close contact and symptoms. Well, I have said and the Leader of the Opposition has said that close contact is enough, frankly. The fellow that came in from Brisbane at the start of the week, who took a test before he got on a plane, was completely asymptomatic. It gives lie to the question of symptoms. We know that people, from the experience in China, can be spreaders despite having very low or no symptoms, but we refuse to test. Why? We are trying to stop the spread of this virus. So the testing capacity is one thing, but it is the actual test that\u2019s going to matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the issues at the border remain problematic. Even after 1 a.m. on Monday morning, or Sunday morning\u2014whenever that change came in\u2014we still have reports of travellers coming home, shocked at the lack of questions and information and screening at the border. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere is the issue of thermal testing. I actually support thermal testing, because despite the fact that we could pick up false positives and false negatives, every single person who\u2019s coming across the border with a temperature of 38 degrees or more should be taken away, isolated, questioned, and tested, and it should be suggested that they might go into self-isolation until that test result is back. Do you know that we\u2019re actually doing that for people leaving the country? We are now testing people leaving the country to go to the Pacific\u2014very good, happy with that\u2014but why on earth are we not temperature testing people coming into the country? It is inconsistent. It is late. It is weak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI am pleased there is a $500 million investment in our health services to meet this, but I respectfully point out that while the aviation sector also needs support, more money is going to go in to support the aviation sector than is going in to support our health service. And I do worry, as the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, that we already have DHBs with combined financial deficits of much greater than this amount. They will be $600 million to $700 million in deficit again this year. How can we be sure that this investment actually goes to net new services to keep New Zealanders safe? I would be pleased to hear from the Minister of Health if he is taking a call on this ministerial statement\u2014because there is much to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI note in the details of the $500 million that there are two stanzas to this support. But in the second stanza\u2014yet to be announced; probably in 30 days\u2019 time\u2014we\u2019re talking about things like increasing the amount of protective equipment, buying more flu vaccines, and making sure Pharmac brings in more antibiotics. Why is that a next stage thing? We should have been doing that last month, not next month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThere will be a run on the seasonal flu vaccine. There is no doubt. Why are we not buying it now? The Minister and the Director-General have assured the country that we have enough protective equipment. It\u2019s in storage in Taranaki or somewhere. Remember, he said that? Why, then, are we now saying our pandemic plan is going to be overwhelmed by this, our resources are going to be overwhelmed by this? Weren\u2019t we ready? And if we\u2019re not ready, why are we waiting a month to make those investments? Is that, I ask the House, the actions of a go-hard, go-early plan or a go-hard, go-early Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe National Party wants to support the Government in this effort. The National Party stands ready to support, whether it\u2019s legislation, emergency appropriation. We certainly support our health professionals right across the country, who could well be overwhelmed by this outbreak. But I worry that despite the rhetoric, this could be too little, too late, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022eddd5afd8d67428c9cca72e87cbf9cb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eddd5afd8d67428c9cca72e87cbf9cb5\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. The job of any Government, including ours, is to be equal to any challenge that we face. Over the last few weeks, the crisis of COVID-19 has continued to grow around the world. The impact that this could have on New Zealand is unlike anything we have seen in our lifetimes, and we have been absolutely clear that we must act accordingly. Our response as a Government, as communities, as New Zealanders needs to meet the scale of this crisis head-on. The health and wellbeing of our families, our friends, and our communities depends on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOver the weekend, we agreed to a number of strong actions that will help to keep the number of people in New Zealand with COVID-19 as low as possible. These decisions will give us the time that we need so that no matter what happens, we are ready. What the Minister of Finance has announced today is a comprehensive and compassionate approach to managing the impact that COVID-19 could have on our daily lives. It\u2019s a package of measures designed to help us manage the crisis in a way that makes sense to people and their families, ensuring that whatever happens, people can continue to support their families, pay their bills and put money back into their local businesses and into their communities. It was clear from the Minister of Finance\u2019s speech that what he was saying boils down to this: none of us are alone in this. We are all in this together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are thousands of New Zealanders up and down the country who are living pay cheque to pay cheque. And then, of course, there are those who work tirelessly to improve our communities, or put on events that bring our wh\u0101nau and our friends and our neighbours together. Now, I\u2019m sure that nearly every single one of them has been sitting around the dinner table over the course of the last few days asking themselves what COVID-19 means for them and for their families, wondering what additional support they would get so they can continue to provide for their family, and thinking about what will happen to the great businesses that make their communities such great places to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EEvery conversation that we have had about how to manage this crisis, every decision, every single dollar allocated is about these people. It has been about making sure that we are doing everything that we can to care for the communities likely to be most affected by the health and economic challenges ahead\u2014those on low incomes, our older friends and wh\u0101nau, working families with children, and people with disabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance has made it clear that we have three priorities for doing this: more support for our public healthcare system, extra help for those who need it the most, and assistance for businesses so that they can keep people in work. So first: the public health system. Now, as most would agree, a public health system that can care for us and the people that we know and love, no matter what our income is or where we live, is the foundation of a fairer and a more equal and a more resilient New Zealand. None of us can go about our daily lives or raise a family or stay healthy without it. The additional support that our public health system will receive as a result of this announcement will help to slow the spread of the COVID-19 virus and keep the number of infected at any one time at a manageable level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMoney will be spent on making sure that care in the community continues, on testing and tracing any cases that come up, and on communicating more with New Zealanders about what we can all do to help to limit the spread of the virus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EEvidence tells us that M\u0101ori, as a population group, are likely to experience significantly worse effects from COVID-19, so we must make sure that our M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi have the information and the support that they need\u2014the same is true for our Pacific friends and neighbours. Wherever we are from, whoever we are, every one of us values similar things: the health and wellbeing of our communities, of those we love; safe, healthy, and secure places to work and to live. Let\u2019s make sure that we provide all of that for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EImportantly, our public health package also includes a comprehensive leave payment scheme to help people who have to self-isolate, because when people need to go to work in order to take care of their family, the last thing we want is people going to work who are sick and who can spread the virus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, even with those measures in place, we know that if the virus does spread, it will be those on the lowest incomes who will be the worst affected. That is why the second area that we are prioritising is extra support for those who need it the most. We are increasing the rates of all main benefits by $25 a week, changing in-work support, and doubling the winter energy payment, all of which will help more people to pay the bills and to put food on the table, and to stay well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThat brings us to our third priority, which is business. At times like this it is important that people continue to have access to good, stable work that they can count on. A temporary wage subsidy will support businesses to keep people in work, so that no matter what happens, as many New Zealanders as possible can continue to provide for their families and contribute to their local communities through their work. There will also be some support for people who do lose their jobs so that they can access other work or retrain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, there are two other areas that I\u2019d like to touch on, and the first is mental health. We know that some of the social and psychological factors that can lead to poor mental health include hardship, loneliness, and disconnecting from others. So with more people working on their own from home or going into self-isolation, or possibly losing some of their income, it is critical that we keep the mental health of New Zealanders at the forefront of our minds. It\u2019ll be all too easy for people to feel like they\u2019re all alone in this, but this is a moment where we need each other. So if anyone out there sees someone struggling, please reach out and ask if they\u2019re OK. Put them in touch with one of the many incredible organisations that are out there supporting our people. Above all else, we are here today to say to people: \u201CYou are not alone.\u201D We are always stronger when we have each other\u2019s backs and when we\u2019re looking out for one another. Let\u2019s just make sure that we keep it that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second point that I wanted to raise is a reminder to all of us to treat each other with humanity and respect as we face the challenge. People are understandably concerned about what is happening around the world, but that must never be an excuse to lash out against our neighbours or to engage in xenophobia or racism. Making sure that everyone is aware of the facts so that they understand what COVID-19 is and do not direct their concern at others is critically important. We can all play a part in this, and remember, our kids and our grandkids are watching. How we act in these situations will be a valuable lesson for them to follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the Green Party in Government, I would like to conclude by making clear our full support for today\u2019s announcement. It is the first phase of our Government\u2019s plan for managing COVID-19 and its impacts. Further announcements will need to focus on what we can do next to build a better New Zealand from everything that we\u2019re going through right now. But managing this isn\u2019t just a job for the Government. So to all New Zealanders, I would like to say this: please also show leadership in your homes and in your communities by looking out for each other, by supporting the older people that you know, and please, please, please wash your hands. We will pull through this when we all pull together. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00229e6ea025d00e4a1fba6c25a1a3e87615\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e6ea025d00e4a1fba6c25a1a3e87615\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to welcome the Government\u2019s initiative today. Humanity is being ravaged by a virus that has three particular characteristics: it is spreading fast, it potentially has a high death rate, and it has an incubation period which is quite long so it can spread undetected. And that is creating enormous uncertainty for people around the world. Every school I\u2019ve visited in the last few days, every business, every household is facing uncertainty, and COVID-19 is the only topic. But it also creates uncertainty for our Government. I don\u2019t know if they\u2019ve made the right decisions through this crisis, but what I do know is that they\u2019ve had to make critical, high-stakes decisions with limited information in a fluid situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe role of Parliament in these circumstances is to be supportive, to offer constructive criticism and helpful suggestions where applicable, but in that spirit it is also important that the Government does not take political advantage of the situation. I heard the Minister of Finance trying to use this crisis as an opportunity to shout from the rooftops about the Government\u2019s economic credentials. He said, \u201CWe\u2019re in a strong position.\u201D Well, actually, the truth is this Government has taken the future forecast from a $6 billion surplus to a $1 billion deficit. It would have been more honest for him to say \u201CLucky the virus got here in time before we spent all the money.\u201D, but we don\u2019t actually need to have that kind of political squabbling in these circumstances. I would say\u2014[Interruption] Well, the Government started it and I just responded, and they don\u2019t like it up \u2019em. But the fact of the matter is what this country actually needs is some certainty and some principle, and I would say that this Government, first and foremost, should not introduce permanent policy changes under the guise of a crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI talk to schoolteachers and principals and I look to the Minister of Education, and I say that it would be wrong to significantly change the curriculum and the NCEA while the education sector is busy bracing for this crisis. That should be delayed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think it would have been helpful for this Government to have put a 12-month moratorium on new regulatory initiatives that add cost to business. I think it would have been helpful to give tax relief to businesses at the same time as the Government is giving money to businesses. I support the relief package\u2014I think that those businesses do need the relief\u2014but it seems illogical to be introducing a minimum wage increase at the exact time that the Government is giving money to businesses to pay wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe could make comments about the requirement for testing. We heard the Prime Minister say to medical professionals that they should test if they want to. If that is the new Government\u2019s policy, that is wonderful news. But I hope that the Prime Minister will clarify that that is truly the policy, because what international experience has shown us in the last few weeks is that we need to test more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe are going to see the private sector take a hit. We\u2019re going to see people go to four-day weeks. I suspect we\u2019re going to take pay cuts throughout the private sector, and I don\u2019t know if I can become any less popular amongst some of my parliamentary colleagues, but I suggest that we parliamentarians should show solidarity and take one, too. If the private sector\u2019s going to do it, I think Parliament should do it for the period of this crisis. I think that would set an example where Ministers can go to their senior executives and say that those civil servants who are earning over $100,000 should also do that, because the private sector, businesses, and households in New Zealand are going to be hurting. The only way we get through this is if we all, as New Zealanders, pull together, and that includes parliamentarians and that includes the public sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAs other speakers have said, we are a nation that has faced uncertainty and adversity before. But we are also a nation of people who have travelled further to be here and have a better life for ourselves and our children than any other people on earth, and with that pioneering spirit of entrepreneurship and resourcefulness, I believe we will come through this crisis strongly. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0da63c7d3c94ef2b272bea383184bac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0da63c7d3c94ef2b272bea383184bac\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I want to start by recognising the significance of the unfolding events for so many New Zealanders\u2014so many New Zealanders who face uncertainty in the coming weeks and months in respect of their health, so many New Zealanders who are unsure about the longevity of their employment, and so many hard-working New Zealanders who today are still unsure about what this means for their businesses. I also want to start by thanking our health workers and those on the front line, because as information has come slowly to us through the media, these doctors and nurses, health professionals, and front-line staff have been also working in uncertain times, not knowing fully what risk they were exposing themselves to as they were caring for those who maybe had visited New Zealand or New Zealanders who were not well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to recognise that the Government has decided that it is important to put more money in health, but I think that the $500 million that they\u2019ve allocated in this package today is just not enough, because, actually, our hospitals have been struggling, and we know that. We know that for many New Zealanders who have faced a growing wait to get to hospitals for operations and so on, actually more resource is needed than this $500 million, particularly when we consider just how significantly this disease, this virus, has escalated in other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EA recession is all but here, and I want to say that I do believe that the response from the Government, until today, has been slow. I think it\u2019s important that last week we saw the media and Simon Bridges, the Leader of the Opposition, start to mount quite considerable pressure upon the Government to increase the pace at which they were reacting to what was obviously a growing crisis. It was slow and it should have been faster. There should have been controls at the border greater than the ones that we had seen and they should have been there sooner. There should have been temperature checks of people coming off flights\u2014taken aside and questions asked of them\u2014and testing of visitors to see whether or not they had this disease, rather than actually the assurances we were given not being delivered on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis brings me to the issue of self-isolation that the Prime Minister announced just on Saturday night, and I must say quite clearly, from the point of view of the Opposition and so many New Zealanders, it is not clear to us quite how this would work. So we could have had 10,000 people getting off aeroplanes yesterday who had to self-isolate because they had just arrived in New Zealand, and where were they doing this? There are reports of them checking into hotels, and the hotel workers and the owners of the hotels are very uncertain about what that self-isolation means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe only way we stop the spread of this disease in the way that the Prime Minister has given assurances and commitments to the public over is actually for there to be clear and precise information given. To say people should self-isolate without clear guidelines or rules, that weren\u2019t delivered on Saturday night\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca6451f5e0354bd7a21b7a3a59d9efdc\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: There are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1f171558014b00a7156ec9dab38aa0\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: They are not. They are not clearly there. Members of the Government may say they are, but up and down New Zealand, on social media and through the media and on talkback radio, New Zealanders are confused. So the point that I am making to members of the Government is rather than saying it\u2019s there, what we need to see is much more information being made available more readily and clearly, so that everyday New Zealanders are clear about the implications of how self-isolation will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is not a political plea; it\u2019s actually just a plea to say that New Zealanders are concerned. The concern is growing. Parents won\u2019t be sending their children to school this week, and that information about self-isolation needs to be much, much clearer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the issue of testing. We know there have been around 500 tests done in New Zealand\u2014maybe a few more\u2014but testing, testing, testing is what the World Health Organization said today that other countries are doing. I really would ask the Government to be able to provide information clearly. If we haven\u2019t been doing enough testing\u2014the testing we required\u2014how do they know exactly how many of these cases of people with this virus there are out there? I think it\u2019s very important that people know the scale and magnitude of this challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, the recession is coming. In fact, for some, it was already here. It will be deeper, and it will be longer. There is a small business package here today, but I think that has been delivered later than it should\u2014almost, for some, too late. Too late for the 200 workers in an engineering workshop in Rotorua who were laid off on Friday because their employer was not able to continue to pay them. Certainty should have been given to those employees and that employer earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EToo late for the large tourism business in my home town, who is, in the coming days, about to lay off 50 workers because this support will not go far enough for that employer. I suspect that business will have to close in the coming weeks and, with the exception of a few workers there, every single one of them will lose their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EToo little for the hotel chains that may have 500 or 600 workers around the country that this package, announced by the Government, doesn\u2019t deliver for, who will have to lay so many people off who will actually not be kept in jobs, and will be on the unemployment benefit. Chris Roberts from Tourism Industry Aotearoa said today that after seeing the Government\u2019s plan, he expects that of a workforce of around 230,000 New Zealanders who were involved in tourism and accommodation, at least 100,000 of them are likely to lose their jobs\u2014not in the coming year, but in the coming weeks. For those New Zealanders, much more should have been done to give them certainty much sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe first thing the Government should not have done was look to make it easier for people to go on the unemployment benefit. The package we\u2019ve heard about today that does give some certainty to some businesses should have been delivered at the same time weeks ago\u2014should have been delivered at the same time weeks ago. Because the Government is right when they say that it\u2019s easier to keep somebody in a job than it is to get them off a benefit, back into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m saying that the timing of this, the priority of the Government, was wrong. These announcements today should have been there weeks earlier, as the private sector was asking for, as the tourism sector was asking for, as Simon Bridges was asking for and demanding, and have only just arrived today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat brings me to something else the Government says that they won\u2019t do that I actually plead with them to go back and reconsider, because it\u2019s a plea that comes from businesses throughout New Zealand, and predominantly smaller businesses. It comes to the heart of the increasing cost that\u2019s been placed upon businesses before the magnitude of this virus has hit them. That\u2019s around the 1 April increase in the minimum wage. Now, this isn\u2019t a debate about those who earn the least and whether a sharp increase in the minimum wage will deliver for them, because in the tourism sector we\u2019ve had one of the experts, Chris Roberts, say 100,000 New Zealanders, in the coming weeks, are going to lose their jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI ask: how many people are likely to lose their businesses? I asked the Government to reconsider their view last week that they wouldn\u2019t put the minimum wage increase of 1 April off by just six months so businesses can adjust. We can see what\u2019s going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere is a cost of $300 million coming to New Zealand businesses on 1 April because of the minimum wage increase. It\u2019s something that they could not well afford before the coronavirus arrived in New Zealand. They really cannot afford it today. I fear that many, many more people will lose their jobs more quickly than they might otherwise as a result of this cost being put upon businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to talk about exports and trade, because so many jobs in New Zealand depend upon this. Actually, we\u2019re going to see a slowing of the world economy, and we\u2019re going to see it more difficult for our exporters than it should be. I\u2019m glad the Government has recognised that it\u2019s going to be harder for that supply chain overseas to continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI would say to them, as with all of the money they\u2019ve announced today for small businesses and to keep people in work, or for those who will be on sick leave, as well as the money that\u2019s set aside to help keep that supply chain open, it needs to be delivered quickly. It must be there today, it must be there tomorrow, it must be there in the coming weeks. We can\u2019t have an overly bureaucratic system where we have businesses and industry and exporters expecting help today, and that help won\u2019t arrive for them until weeks\u2019 or months\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis is a time when this Government needs to step up\u2014the first and only time, actually, in the last 2\u00BD years when it\u2019s clear that they absolutely must do so. It\u2019s not a time for talk. It\u2019s not a time for meetings or working groups. It\u2019s a time to deliver the help to everyday New Zealanders who need it, to make sure the money they\u2019ve committed, that they are borrowing, is spent as quickly as it can be to keep those businesses open and to keep those people in jobs. It gives some certainty to many of our large and small businesses who are involved in the export sector, who continue to face great uncertainty, not only about their job and their prospects but about the depth of the recession and how that will affect them in the coming weeks and months and years. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00223863e67de746416ba4aaf5447bf5b044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223863e67de746416ba4aaf5447bf5b044\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Government has announced today our commitment to protecting New Zealanders\u2019 health through an initial, dedicated $500 million fund. We are backing our health professionals to combat COVID-19. I say this, more in sadness than anger\u2014to borrow a phrase from the Opposition health spokesperson\u2014it is very sad today to hear politicians in this House second-guessing the clinical judgment and scientific advice that has driven the decision making of the Government around this disease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe have a plan\u2014we have a plan. We are well prepared. We have been working since 6 January off the pandemic plan that was revised in 2017. The members opposite know it well. It has been already tested through exercises under this Government. We are well prepared, and we\u2019ve been operating off that plan and looking at the stages and phases of that plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe early and decisive action\u2014and here I want to acknowledge the Prime Minister for her leadership, and the Minister of Finance also for his. They have been clear from the start that financial resources will not be a constraint here. That was made abundantly clear to me right from the start. As Minister of Health, that has given me the permission to say to the health professionals, the DHBs, the primary care people, to the lot of them, \u201CWe must do what we need to do.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe have an $18 billion health budget. We have had the two largest health budgets in New Zealand history under this Government. We can move that money around to prioritise it for COVID-19. This is what we need to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to thank those outstanding health professionals in our public health service, who have, over many years, worked in stretched environments, for the way they step up in times like this. It gives me the confidence that we are as well prepared as any country in the world for COVID-19. We have health professionals who understand the nature of the task ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EBecause of the early and decisive action we took as a country\u2014if we think right back to 3 February, when we moved to put restrictions in on people coming in from China; when we took the decisions around Iran and South Korea; and when we took the decisions around north Italy; in those three latter examples we moved ahead of Australia to put in place early and decisive actions that restricted flow from the hot spots around the world on COVID-19\u2014it has given us the time to plan and prepare according to the template laid down in the pandemic plan to adapt it to what we are learning about the virus as the days go by, as the new science emerges, and as the medical experts can advise us on what the best way is to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe health of New Zealanders has been our primary consideration from the start. That is why we have taken those measures. That is why we have ensured, right from the start, that we had health information available. That was the World Health Organization (WHO) recommendation: to make sure that people coming through our boundaries early on in this epidemic had the information should they become symptomatic later on, so that they would know what to do. As we saw early cases come in, we saw those people respond\u2014they called the helpline, then they called ahead to the hospital to make sure that people were ready to receive them; they have done things right, and that is because we have supplied that information at the border. We are working to that plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to cover off just one or two other points raised by the Opposition, before I move on to the more substantive parts of the package. The idea that the flu vaccines were not already in train, that the Opposition spokesperson tried to introduce, is deluded, if he thinks that. We have already secured supply 30 percent above the record amount of flu vaccine that we had last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAlso, of course, I think Opposition members know that having temperature checks at the airport in the way that they are suggesting is not supported by the evidence. Having nurses there available to take the assessment is the thing that we can do best; not give people a false sense of hope when they may be coming through our borders, yet to develop symptoms. We are taking the advice of medical experts and scientists at every point, and informing our decisions\u2014and that has proven to be the right course of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ETwo hundred and thirty five million dollars of that fund has already been allocated and actions are already under way. The rest of that $500 million is available immediately and as it is required. The Minister of Finance has been clear with me all along that more will be available if that is requested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EOur health response\u2014the response of our health professionals has been world leading. By taking those hard decisions early and acting decisively, we\u2019ve ensured that we are well placed to combat COVID-19. It is the best protection for New Zealanders and the best protection for our economy. If we take action to keep people safe, that will also be a part of our front-line economic response. Our people are our economy. We\u2019ve also made those record investments\u2014as I\u2019ve touched upon\u2014in previous Budgets, to make sure that our health system is preparing and ramping up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EToday is the right day to be spending an additional half a billion dollars on health; it gives the certainty to those who are already taking actions, to ensure that our health system is learning from the latest evidence and making the preparations that we need to make, because we will inevitably see more cases sporadically arrive in this country. I want to congratulate and thank the public health officials, who, to date, have been able to complete 100 percent of contact tracing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019ve heard today from the WHO that testing, tracing, and self-isolation are the priority in those countries that have been successful. That is the strategy we are pursuing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re determined to seize the moment. We\u2019re determined to act in the window of opportunity that we have to continue our preparedness so that we continue to be one of the best-placed countries in the world to keep COVID-19 at bay. That decisive action has served us well so far and will continue to serve us well into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIn global terms, we, of course, know that the economic package announced by the finance Minister is one of the largest. I believe that the finance Minister has got this right, and history will show that this has been a visionary and correct approach to the headwinds in this global situation that we are facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENearly half of the fund\u2014as I\u2019ve said, the $500 million\u2014is immediately unlocked, and the rest is available as required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about the public health units. We know that those staff are our first line of defence, and they are the ones who manage the notifications of suspected cases and confirmed cases; they do the contract tracing; for the close contacts, they assess and advise on the public health risks in front of us; they manage the border control operations at airports and seaports. Protecting New Zealanders is their number one priority as it is our number one priority. That is why we are putting more than $40 million immediately\u2014immediately\u2014into public health, with a strong emphasis on contact tracing. That investment nearly doubles our annual budget spending in that area for the current year of $46.7 million on core public health services. Of course, the investment was already being shifted to go in there; this gives them the certainty that we will continue to back them in their efforts that are so vital for containing COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also strengthening primary care\u2014recognising that our GPs, our nurse practitioners, our nurses, and our iwi and Pacific providers are there at the front line. Primary care is receiving an additional $50 million including for community-based assessment centres, equipment, and logistics. This means that more people will be able to access GP care for testing when required, minimising the impact on those visiting the GP for other issues\u2014because, of course, there will be other issues, and our health system needs to continue while we are managing COVID-19, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EMore resources will go into Healthline, which has been an important source of advice for the public. They are facing unprecedented levels of demand. They\u2019ve already boosted staffing by more than 100 and are currently handling more than 5,000 calls per day. The $20 million boost for Healthline will mean more doctors and nurses can be hired to provide clinical advice over the phone to deal with those technical, important issues that members of the public are raising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe last component of the fund that I\u2019d like to touch on is the $15 million boost for psychosocial support. We know that the global COVID-19 outbreak has been an anxious time for many people, and this boost will support our psychosocial response and recovery plan to boost the wellbeing of New Zealanders. It will mean easy and immediate access to trained counsellors through the 1737 helpline. We\u2019ll also be developing and promoting online resources to help those who have or develop mental illness as we go about facing this global challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI do want to thank everyone in the health sector, as I close, for the contribution in working to protect New Zealanders in the midst of this global pandemic. I also want to thank those who are in self-isolation who are taking the steps to keep everyone safe, those who are upping their hygiene practices\u2014you are all doing your best to keep COVID-19 at bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9f3f22bba1248939eb04bcbae57c13e\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae31a896b2aa404fadc04cce534655c8\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221329831120aa4f1aab0143c46bc9b45a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1eacadb59fd417086986ec54ce3fc50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1eacadb59fd417086986ec54ce3fc50\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: How is the Government working with other countries in its response to COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9af8327242e44e2b9d9f30992280838\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9af8327242e44e2b9d9f30992280838\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Among a raft of measures, New Zealand is jointly funding the World Health Organization Pacific-wide regional coronavirus response with Australia. Due to the nature of the virus, when we help the Pacific, we help ourselves in New Zealand. Only by ensuring public health and establishing economic security across our Pacific region can New Zealand overcome its effects. This is because Pacific countries\u2019 health systems and economies are expected to be more severely impacted by COVID-19 outbreaks than in our countries. In times like these, it\u2019s essential to work with our partners. New Zealand has taken the appropriate measures to protect the health of its own people while maintaining close working relationships with our neighbours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f24d5eaec98c4a5abf43dd63ab8c8dc5\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What has the international response been to New Zealand\u2019s measures to combat COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243430a07f9d34da68c06f8c8daf78e08\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The response from our partners upon hearing of our global travel restrictions announced by the Prime Minister on Saturday has been understanding and positive. This is a testament to the hard work we have put in from the first day that COVID-19 came on to our horizon to keep our friends around the world abreast of our intentions. This was not an easy decision to make, but we are a Government which is not afraid to make those difficult choices. The health and safety of New Zealanders will always be our paramount concern, and that is why we are advising New Zealanders to avoid non-essential overseas travel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efc299fd912b45bcb86967b0e3dd55c6\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Government\u2019s work with other countries build on its wider efforts to combat the impact of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1ea8224a1c742578fabe0633a5b131d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s response, both at home and abroad, focuses squarely on those most vulnerable to COVID-19. Older people are disproportionately affected by COVID-19, and that will guide this Government\u2019s response to the virus. Naturally, many older people will be concerned about the ramifications of COVID-19 both as a health and economic risk. Rest assured the Government is helping: included in our $12.1 billion economic package announced today is a doubling of the winter energy payments, and this will now equal $1,400 for couples and $900 for single people. We live in unprecedented times, but just as our forefathers triumphed in their own battles, we expect New Zealanders will work together to defeat this virus and move forward to build a better New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a90d55e0343a448ebf4ca3902edab953\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f410891ce7074276a95530931c14a183\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f410891ce7074276a95530931c14a183\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ad2437796f41a2953df6e5e8a6d2c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ad2437796f41a2953df6e5e8a6d2c2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, especially the announcement made by finance Minister Grant Robertson earlier today that we are introducing a $12.1 billion package to cushion the impact of COVID-19 to support Kiwis\u2019 jobs and, of course, the domestic economy. Relative to other countries, this is a far greater package, but we also know that the impact, as we have been advised by Treasury, is likely to be greater than the experience New Zealand had through the global financial crisis and therefore our focus must be on getting in front of those impacts: supporting businesses, jobs, and employees against the worst impacts of this pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022291b95b49dcf441c9c0c7ac134743b36\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why are people being denied coronavirus tests when they are displaying symptoms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd76e6fcdaa4e9f9196a3b2d5c3a733\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion they are. I want to read\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e73eb53c854401930689b141498e30\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251bed15acf11480aab01fb68bdc799bf\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to read from the case notes provided to doctors. Under the case definition, it says, \u201CNote\u201D\u2014this is for clinicians\u2014\u201Cthat due to the ongoing changing global and domestic situation, clinical judgement should apply as to whether someone who doesn\u2019t quite meet the current case definition should be tested or not.\u201D Any person who a clinician thinks needs a test should get a test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022812cdca166af41c3ba0c41d60aa58357\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: So does she deny the email to me from a Wellingtonian and his partner who had all the symptoms and were denied the tests yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adfde9599e7c476f8ca608aa411af08a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, as I\u2019ve just said, that decision sits with doctors. I will read, again: \u201Cdue to the ongoing changing [environment], clinical judgement should apply as to whether someone who doesn\u2019t \u2026 meet the \u2026 case definition should be tested or not.\u201D I cannot be clearer. Any person a doctor believes should be tested can and should be tested. We have the capacity to do up to 1,500 tests a day. My understanding is that we have hundreds of tests currently being processed for which we will have the results tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac0cf1d3bb624154963b0cc0719b68ed\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t she just guarantee that those who show the clear symptoms will get the testing, as Prime Minister of our country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0f760215634b5994b1f71a959bc863\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve just given you the exact advice that is for doctors. Doctors make those decisions, not politicians, but what they have been told is that anyone who they believe should be tested should be tested. I cannot be clearer than that. I cannot make those judgments, but they can, and they should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a533b75befed4ca2847700586049f2b3\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she only suggesting ramping up tests now after the World Health Organization has called for countries to test, test, test?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022131b4ab9f43c425db3ee6dd74b6bfe0e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The member is utterly incorrect. We\u2019ve had the capacity to test up to a thousand a day for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c861f75b0c94b278e9ac276b6ab06e7\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned that a comparable country like Norway has tested 8,000 people and we\u2019ve tested less than 600?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022010e6df7d1364bd38d4b0cba705f051f\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member seems to be upset about where our global standing currently is in terms of case profile. We have, currently, a small number of cases, that have been confirmed through testing. But I expect that we will have many hundreds more tests conducted. In fact, I understand we have hundreds currently being processed this very day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225da2537f8a2449c5b59f83d4660c3349\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t the reason we only have a dozen confirmed cases and not dozens and dozens and dozens because under her Government, since the start of the year, we just haven\u2019t done many tests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad8ef1062a3e4241b3837ccb3f7c474e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: That is an appalling, appalling statement to make. The implication that tests are being determined by politics is appalling. Doctors are making the call, and they are being told that if they believe they should test, they should. I cannot be clearer about the advice that has been provided by the Ministry of Health; it is in black and white\u2014in fact, it is in bold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319de9ba91804d2e9069ca3e87af7130\u0022\u003EHon Dr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that Norway currently has 1,200 confirmed cases of the virus, and is in Europe, which has been described as the epicentre of the outbreak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e80a8d41a8642cf87d66f324d505c45\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. In those cases, you would expect, therefore, that the contact tracing and symptoms would therefore lead to the other testing outcomes that they have. It seems extraordinary to me that the suggestion seems to be that there is disappointment about where we are. Hundreds of tests are being processed today. Very unfortunately, we will see\u2014[Interruption] We will see more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1fd972fb93149e0b59b6686a16dfc20\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Can I just ask members on both sides\u2014this is a very serious issue, and petty calling back and forth from both sides ill behoves the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b08cfac8f34d7fa865ff8d59cce40a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that the reason, say, Norway has many more confirmed cases is because they have done many, many thousands more tests, and that\u2019s where we needed to be weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f086a662e5e64519b4f957158eac60be\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I reject that, and I again confirm I have just been advised there are 500 tests currently being processed. That capacity has always existed, but we have allowed doctors to make that decision, not politicians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232fd49b780244e00b6ce61a12e522089\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will she apologise to New Zealanders who have been previously denied a test under her Government last month, the month before, and as little ago as yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91ccad7f9384a99af5cc15356dcabe6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No one who a doctor believes should be tested should have been denied a test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022288ee0b53bf746fc851dc3392e113805\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9920cace0224d919bd940b7111cb919\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9920cace0224d919bd940b7111cb919\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent announcements has he made about the Government\u2019s economic response to the impacts of the global COVID-19 pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022febe3cbf2d17479ea7b6135fbacdea29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022febe3cbf2d17479ea7b6135fbacdea29\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I announced the Government\u2019s $12.1 billion economic response package aimed at supporting cash flow and confidence in the economy. This represents around 4 percent of New Zealand\u2019s GDP and is larger on a GDP basis than Australia, the UK, Singapore, or Ireland. It also comes on top of the $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme announced earlier in the year. The intent of the package announced today is to fight the virus and smooth the curve, cushion the blow on businesses and workers, and position the economy for recovery. It represents the first stage of Government support to New Zealand businesses and workers, and Budget 2020 will be re-orientated to be a recovery Budget. We are taking bold and decisive actions to respond to uncertain and unprecedented times. There are tough days ahead, but we will get through this together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac8257927f7a43c2a65a069ee2b8ed1e\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What measures has he announced today to support businesses and workers in the near term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fcba03dec4445ca9a9b7362bdef8505\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Under our $8.7 billion business and worker support package, we are introducing a wage subsidy scheme to help people stay attached to their workplace so that both workers and businesses are in a better position to adjust to the difficult prevailing economic conditions. We\u2019re also introducing a COVID-19 leave payment scheme to incentivise people to undertake self-isolation if they are required to do so, and this applies to employees, the self-employed, and contractors. In addition, we\u2019re implementing a significant number of tax changes to increase business cash flow and stimulate investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aea37c9b5d4413abd013df6e2964e0a\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: What measures has he announced today to help New Zealanders\u2019 recovery from the economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c19a14b4084d5f9e796a31eb77a0f6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We recognise that the Government must provide further support to the economy to ensure that a recovery will take hold. The measures we announced today are aimed at boosting demand and supporting households through the first phase of the recovery. The package comprises a $25 across the board increase to main benefits, scheduled for implementation on 1 April 2020; a doubling of the amount paid through the winter energy payment for 2020; and removing the hours test from the in-work tax credit to assist those who may face variable hours as a result of the virus. Ultimately, the recovery package will go well beyond these measures. These measures represent the first phase of an ongoing commitment from the Government to New Zealanders to support us through this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223dc98f1ba54b45cfb3559dda505e619d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1ea73caa9aa4c13b67d83e37cc15cca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1ea73caa9aa4c13b67d83e37cc15cca\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002285570ce3b6284dd3ae4eafda4fc870d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285570ce3b6284dd3ae4eafda4fc870d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, particularly our decision to expand our travel measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19, so that every person will be required to self-isolate for 14 days, outside of the Pacific. We have also, of course, announced today additional funding to health. As part of our efforts, we are dedicating $500 million directly into combatting COVID-19, nearly doubling the resources for our public health units, who are, of course, key for our contact tracing as part of our response; an extra $50 million in support for GPs, because at this point in time, they are our front line; and $20 million for capacity at Healthline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022528bdac45a1448aba31438796faaa12e\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: How many thousands of jobs are expected to be lost this year because of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295384490ba9b4b40993f0a2f0c7527df\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It is very, very early days in some of the projections that we\u2019re receiving from Treasury. As I said yesterday, one of the early predictions from Treasury was that we will experience a greater shock to our economy than we experienced in the global financial crisis. Of course, at that point, my recollection is unemployment hit 6.7 percent; so that gives an order of magnitude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b44f262667d43d1a692f9acd981863a\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Of the half a million - plus businesses in New Zealand, how many does the Government expect will be eligible for wage subsidies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4030d946304ef4bb1e81e38ea27f52\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: All of them who are being affected by COVID-19. The criteria doesn\u2019t set a size limit; it does set, simply, a cap on how much can be claimed. That cap\u2019s at $150,000. The other criteria is that it has to have had an effect of 30 percent or more on turnover. We anticipate, though, there will be some companies who won\u2019t be able to compare from, say, a year ago; so we\u2019ve put flexibility on how they can demonstrate those impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba45e1438ec467cb718e22b8c65fa92\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the tourism business in my electorate with 40 staff that will now start laying off staff because the $150,000 cap announced today doesn\u2019t cover all of his staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e05f5c93154404a6ded8f0196c0d5e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it does, though, cover $150,000 worth. Of course, that gives, we hope, some ability for them to retain staff, work through their plans. We also hope that they are having encouraging conversations with their banks as well, also with IRD, and making sure they work through every avenue. That payment of $150,000 will be paid out in bulk. Perhaps they may not be able to retain all of their staff in this difficult time, but we do hope it makes a difference for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226db4849a23b54dfebfdc799487fbb85a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Prime Minister, in confronting this viral invasion, in what sense will economic recovery be best assured: one of confidence and reassurance to the public, or gloom, doom, and naysaying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239fe1ae9838d4e15a6ff32474085e2d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, the former. I would reflect that what we have used to build the framework for the wage subsidy scheme was actually what the member\u2019s last Government, the National Government, did for Christchurch and Kaik\u014Dura. So those were the frameworks that we used as the starting point\u2014the difference, of course, being that those were region specific; we\u2019ve had to design something for the entire country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0ffa58f205846da9ddd9867d6d55143\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the hotelier I\u2019ve talked to today who is going to go to the wall because of the sharp downturn in tourism and, with the $150,000 cap, is going to start laying off workers as early as this week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295708cb970c542ceb48de2e2759070dc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Again, for some large organisations\u2014and I can\u2019t speak to specific cases, but some larger organisations\u2014we are saying that we wish to hear from them, because we are looking at some specific circumstances, depending on the organisation. Obviously, though, as a starting point, that wage subsidy is in place, and there are other elements of the package that do provide some relief from tax provision in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da6c00b67ec4ebf9bfc597f6869080f\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Will the wage subsidies be backdated, and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022820444d64d774d12b95ffb9e9d2315ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: From the day that they\u2019re announced. Basically, a business can make an application immediately. We\u2019ve estimated that it will take five to six days before it will be paid out, but it will be paid out in a lump sum, not on a weekly basis. So backdating becomes irrelevant, because they get it in a bulk payment, 12-week equivalent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b013cbe88f094bdbb1bcecf5cce21003\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government downturn lasts another six months, would the Government look to extend the wage subsidies that long?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eeb6a3368ec4e6799043d0919cf9ba6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We have said that this is tranche one of our response. We gave a 12-week payment in order to give businesses some certainty. Of course, we will have to continually assess the economic situation for New Zealanders, and including the health situation for New Zealanders. We\u2019ve also said the Budget will be the place where we have to also design New Zealand\u2019s recovery plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022077d504c3bcb4e0ba94d38a55492ccc1\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to businesses who have lost turnover of, say, 25 percent and therefore are ineligible for the job support but nevertheless will struggle in the current environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022452a0a114cf94b4888f96926a4cb5bc7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Even if they\u2019ve only lost 25 percent in existing turnover, if they can demonstrate that their projected turnover will be greater, then they will be eligible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f56e9b2577e457296474cff068132b3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed4e64e7f2ea48e599951e6af6e8ed44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed4e64e7f2ea48e599951e6af6e8ed44\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What is the Government doing to support New Zealand businesses that are struggling with the economic impact of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022cab612738aba455489442b9efffa8646\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cab612738aba455489442b9efffa8646\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E At the risk of some repetition: the Government today announced our $12.1 billion package. It includes an initial $500 million boost for health; $5.1 billion set aside for wage subsidies for affected businesses in all sectors and regions, available from today; $126 million for the COVID-19 leave and self-isolation support; $2.8 billion for an income support package for our most vulnerable and to promote spending, including a permanent $25 per week benefit increase and a doubling of the winter energy payment for 2020; a $100 million redeployment package; $2.8 billion in business tax changes to free up cash flow, including a provisional tax threshold lift, the reinstatement of building depreciation, and the writing off of interest on the late payment of tax. All of this and more is on top of the $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme that was announced in January.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a50b2bc7a1f3445987e4bfe5a75c5e3e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How much of today\u2019s package will reach businesses in the next four weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae098e8f2e704518875526a5a76db9ef\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: At a conservative estimate, the $5.1 billion is available and will be paid out in that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829f709f995d422aad9eedfb0bcc958b\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Will businesses have to keep employing people to get the wage subsidy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049315b6d7da4779b7d8c83f36101ad3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a wage subsidy, so yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228306d7802f904ba7857d29fdef2614fc\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what\u2019s in place to ensure that recipients of the subsidy keep employing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530b13d702f24ed3ad2de4952fd4ae84\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s incredibly sad that the member thinks so ill of the small-business people of New Zealand, that they would rort the system like this. As it happens, they have to sign a declaration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4caee033584f82920fa8bec517cab9\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why hasn\u2019t working capital support for small to medium sized enterprises been a priority today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67ffe96734f4e86825e454f27ba3fe4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: In the first instance, for all businesses, their relationship is with their bank. Earlier this week, the Reserve Bank Governor made an important series of decisions, including lowering the official cash rate but also relieving banks of the burden of the bank capital changes that he had put in place. That opens up $47 billion worth of capital for those banks. They\u2019re also\u2014the Reserve Bank\u2014putting more liquidity into the market. Banks are the first port of call in terms of working capital. At the same time, Government officials met yesterday with the banks, and had met last week with the banks, to discuss what future potential partnerships there might be for working capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e48a276d0f94b7b969a4263098da55d\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does the decline in revenue of 30 percent have to relate to coronavirus?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b098552ace264ea085e68d1eebd8de28\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Businesses need to be able to show that they have lost 30 percent of turnover. It will be clear to everybody that coronavirus will be the cause of that in most cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d1f5313e6e4e538c59011f19009e17\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How is it clear? How does it work? If a revenue drop is due to a conscious decision of a business owner totally unrelated to coronavirus, are they eligible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da33e7c48090487abc1fe488ff2eb8b2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Businesses will need to sign a declaration that indicates that 30 percent drop. Again I repeat: most businesses in New Zealand today are not focused on rorting the system; they\u2019re focused on keeping their employees in work, and we\u2019re trying to help them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f96806908954bedaca667ddd77542f9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcc938b9f2e40c3a8ff01aecd4fdc5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcc938b9f2e40c3a8ff01aecd4fdc5d\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How is the Government supporting public health services in New Zealand to respond to COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00222c8065490ab94b23a89ecf4608bf9690\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c8065490ab94b23a89ecf4608bf9690\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E COVID-19 is a global challenge. Thanks to early and decisive Government action, we have had comparatively few cases in New Zealand, but we know we will see more and we are prepared. Today, the Government announced an initial $500 million fund to strengthen our health services to fight and contain COVID-19. This package makes sure that health services are there for those who need them the most. This is an initial investment. From the outset, it has been made clear to me by the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance that financial resources will not be a constraint. The Government will ensure the health sector has the support and resources it needs to fight and contain COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022617bfe40a55743aeabdb845bdf601891\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: What services will be boosted as a result of this new $500 million fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224918822aba50443488af29d93b137b93\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The COVID-19 health package will boost health services across 11 priorities, but let me draw attention to three of those. Firstly, Healthline will receive an additional $20 million to deal with the more than 5,000 calls they\u2019re receiving every day. Secondly, $40 million will be going to public health units. These are the crucial people who are contact tracing every single person who has come into contact with a confirmed case of COVID-19. And, thirdly, $32 million will be set aside for intensive care capacity and equipment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a234849c3a8045b083deb0395a85f244\u0022\u003EAngie Warren-Clark\u003C/span\u003E: How will primary care clinics, like general practices, be supported by the $500 million fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d19f02c5079f4602b333738e065decee\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Alongside our contact tracers, our general practitioners, nurse practitioners, nurses, iwi and Pacific providers, and all other primary care workers are on the front line of the fight against COVID-19. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing an additional $50 million in primary care, including funding for community-based assessment centres, equipment, and logistics. We\u2019re also investing a further $20 million to improve the capacity of general practice and community health providers to use technologies such as video conferencing and Telehealth to conduct consultations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022652a5ff972c742bb89f172a14dbc4ce0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00222dfacfeb87b941b1b2f990f76192ccb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dfacfeb87b941b1b2f990f76192ccb8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b86dd7d1f9dc4009b4781bb527fd551f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b86dd7d1f9dc4009b4781bb527fd551f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In the context in which they were made and given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258a97cc39f5347f7897b419b8c67dd5c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it the policy today to limit support to businesses, effectively, to 21 full-time staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216bc4e7062c443ef89348984064c7830\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a wage subsidy scheme. It is a scheme to support businesses to be able to make adjustments at this time. It is set at a cap which would cover most small businesses in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff6a76055294b819b7020fccb0fc4a2\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So what would he say to the owner of a hotel in Queenstown, for example, with 200 staff, whose revenue has dropped by more than 50 percent and is facing very substantial lay-offs, in terms of how this subsidy will help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227758dfaa39fe4fb18c015f10df8e6d13\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say to that business is that they should be talking to their bank in the first instance. I\u2019m sure the member appreciates it is not possible for the Government to fund and run every business in New Zealand. The package contains significant benefits for that business in terms of the tax changes around depreciation and around provisional tax. There also is the possibility for larger businesses to be talking to us as well but in the first instance it is the bank that that business needs to talk to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a053e444cc463684ccda2856093575\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: So what was the rationale for prioritising roughly half of the $12 billion package to longer-term issues and roughly half the package to short-term focus on subsidising workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022835ad86f1f1a4de9b9c7710ef42fcfa8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of that question. I think the member might be putting depreciation issues, for example, into that category in terms of longer term; actually, that\u2019s available for people from next month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c4ba23ba3649b3a9927e48b53b054a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What job losses is he expecting in the medium-sized business area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be19c87c6af84a138fc06da820dd2026\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have a specific number available for that, but as the Prime Minister has said earlier today, the advice that we have had is that the effect of this will be greater than the global financial crisis. During that time, unemployment reached 6.7 percent. This will have a significant impact. The good news is that the package we announced today will help cushion the blow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002282a5fa3f19b0479b8f110648c872ebff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd6d523702aa408cb09f8e395906307f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd6d523702aa408cb09f8e395906307f\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What was the average wait-time for Healthline yesterday, and is he confident in the Government\u2019s ability to track those who are self-isolating for COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00229a005ff6f8c04de6aedcef1aebf9ad6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a005ff6f8c04de6aedcef1aebf9ad6b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, this answer is likely to be slightly longer than usual, and I trust your office has been notified, but it\u2019s not terribly long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6acafd51d6b48a28242e8af078d86cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. No, I have been notified\u2014like the wait times. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd318ee111b7446282164e055058866e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Healthline is delivering an unprecedented level of support to New Zealanders. Yesterday, more than 7,000 contacts were managed by Healthline, which is seven times higher, I\u2019m advised, than the usual volume of calls. That has led to some delays and longer than usual wait times. I appreciate that will have caused some frustration for people looking for advice and support. Healthline has already added significant new capacity. Two hundred additional non-clinical staff have been trained, and 50 additional nurses have been recruited. Today, the Government announced a one-off funding boost of $20 million to allow for further staff to be hired. Yesterday, the average wait time was 44 minutes. Proactive calls to people in self-isolation are now being separately managed by a dedicated call centre with 150 staff. There will be zero tolerance for those who do not follow the rules of self-isolation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022690a9ef827e041f4a2561eb0683ca464\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that people will give up on getting through to Healthline and therefore not self-isolate properly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583afa9baaa94301a7c25ab5feccfa1c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: My expectation is that people will continue to observe the requirement around self-isolation. Ten thousand people have been registered with Healthline. They\u2019re registered when they come into the country, they\u2019re contacted by Healthline, and New Zealanders and our visitors have been taking this seriously. As I have said, there will be zero tolerance for those who do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab9664a9c36742b8881479b01c89d7a8\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How exactly is Healthline monitoring those in self-isolation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ef0c86e9e2e4b9e9078b4ed7a4b9af9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: They are in contact regularly. We are also going to be doing spot-checks, and the member will also know that, under the Health Act, there is the ability for the medical officer of health to have the police intervene if there is concern that someone is not complying with the requirement for self-isolation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6584905b8814ce38a5de598de319496\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Was Healthline ready for the announcement at the weekend, and, if so, why did the Director-General of Health describe it as facing \u201Chuge pressure\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee609b6aa3234889adc5be4c8e2c18f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no doubt that right through the COVID-19 experience, and certainly since the World Health Organization declared this a pandemic, there has been a huge demand on services as people have sought advice. I do ask those who are calling in to be patient where they do face some delay, but, as I have said, we\u2019ve just committed an additional $20 million to ramping up that service, and I know that that is happening already today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee41649271794d65a09a903d9beb027b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Ministry of Health know exactly where everyone currently self-isolating is, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286602da5b6c446329ff37892f8ed7691\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: People who come into New Zealand fill out a form indicating where they will be self-isolating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223237ec2781114838b7d4c42130ec7558\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022a697f19fac244df9b2fd4380df3313c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a697f19fac244df9b2fd4380df3313c6\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What is the Government doing to support people to self-isolate to stop the spread of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00223652b5e20e2d495d8373872859fb5818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223652b5e20e2d495d8373872859fb5818\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E From today, we have introduced the COVID-19 leave payment scheme to provide support for people unable to work because they are in self-isolation, sick with COVID-19, or caring for dependants in either of those situations. The payments will be $585.80 per week for full-time and $350 per week for part-time workers. This is one of the most important tools to prevent community transmission of the virus. We need people to self-isolate appropriately, and we recognise that this burden should be shared between workers, employers, and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226886e11b7a314bc9b5217ff9e6889dc8\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Who does the scheme apply to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f986b700f32436598584882421f9d3c\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: This applies to all people working in New Zealand, including employees, contractors, and the self-employed. We have designed the scheme to be easy to access and use. We\u2019ve also built safeguards into the scheme. The scheme applies to those acting in accordance with public health guidance and registered with Healthline. People who leave New Zealand now, knowing that they will be required to self-isolate on their return, will not be eligible. Those who are caught intentionally abusing the scheme will have to repay the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bccd31b59cc495b93834081d6e0b096\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government introduced the scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1a5dd0f00c4d7e8fa945a3e9b04550\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY\u003C/span\u003E: This is a global issue, and New Zealand is part of the global response. Protecting New Zealanders\u2019 health and stopping the spread of the virus is our number one focus. The best protection for the economy is containing the virus. Everyone has a responsibility to help us get through this. We want to ensure that people who do the right thing are taken care of, and that includes helping them meet their essential costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c43ebeed98bf4c81bba1ecac4555e8de\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u00223590e56b36e8472088d3b7895da9cec1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223590e56b36e8472088d3b7895da9cec1\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National\u2014Whangarei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he confident that the health system is well prepared for a coronavirus outbreak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00228e8f8f529f414f32ac9ed724c813bbbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e8f8f529f414f32ac9ed724c813bbbc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E COVID-19 is putting pressure on even the best-prepared health systems around the world, with Italy and some other countries overwhelmed. In New Zealand, thanks to our early and decisive action, we have so far had relatively few cases. We\u2019ve been working from our comprehensive pandemic plan since January to flatten the curve, and today we\u2019ve announced a $500 million health fund to combat COVID-19. But we know we will see more cases here. As I\u2019ve noted many times in this House, there has been under-investment in health, but our health services are prepared; our doctors, nurses, and other health staff have had time to plan. I have huge confidence in their skills and professionalism and their ability to respond to COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf84b4562dfa4a7aa2674bc778f6521d\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Have robust primary care inventories been undertaken for coronavirus protective equipment in general practice, and, if so, when were they completed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1eb070150954537a5559358b5298d1d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: General practice has been issued with personal protective equipment (PPE)\u2014of course, much is being held at the centre in order to ensure that it is available for any hot spots. We have 9 million of one type of face mask and 9 million of another, as the member knows, and those are being held to ensure that they are in the right place at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257465b59826e48eb9ba2a500dc25b265\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: How many suspected coronavirus patients a day does an average general practice have protective equipment on hand for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296c1b7f4692a4518ae3c5ddc7c5b9cf9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that exact number in front of me. The member will know that currently we have only very few COVID-19 cases in train, and that PPE is used in those practices best where we have more cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236016d88ebc747398394aeedc4cbfbc6\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Will Healthline reconnect with people who were told a week ago that close contact was 1 metre face to face, now that the New Zealand definition has been changed to 2 metres, and why did New Zealand not align with the international definition from the very start?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb2c69a96ce0419aaebb36fe150a7717\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abb8c1d690064cf5ba0c08f0202ecdd7\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Does New Zealand coronavirus testing align with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommendations to test all older people with symptoms who also have heart conditions; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254cbc329173349ff92b0ea78e5f156fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The member will have heard from the Prime Minister earlier in today\u2019s House session that all primary care workers who are so qualified are being encouraged to test if they have any clinical suspicion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbc4972f15284107850bb0b0b03bbfd3\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What is the weakest point in the health system for coronavirus management, and how can we help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ed65313bd5a492b9afa5657a6badc7d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s misinformation, and members of the Opposition can help by making sure that they are pointing people toward the Ministry of Health website, where the most up-to-date and correct information is on hand. They can share that widely, and I would appreciate it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0f4405542eb438ba8bba1d247c1a468\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Small Business\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9c14d0a65bd4f17ab1580481d24ff13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9c14d0a65bd4f17ab1580481d24ff13\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business: Does he stand by all the Government\u2019s actions and statements regarding small business?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022021c517d151e49728b2554f62a7b59c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022021c517d151e49728b2554f62a7b59c3\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister for Small Business):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, especially the $12.1 billion package to support New Zealanders and their jobs from the domestic and global impact of COVID-19. We are moving quickly to help people stay in work and reduce the hit to businesses. The global economic impact of COVID-19 on New Zealand\u2019s economy is going to be significant, so we are acting now to soften that impact. I thank the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance for their leadership, and I\u2019m incredibly proud to be part of a team that has taken the tough calls, but the right calls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274770e2b98fd47478148fd388f6d166c\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received on the economic cost that COVID-19 will have on New Zealand\u2019s small businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec6b5d934d744d69bd0e05246434c4b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t received any advice on that to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a69b5826ea414ea61cfa28263150d7\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received on the number of jobs in small businesses likely to be lost as a result of the economic shock caused by COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dd86d70eed54bc2bf822363df96e98c\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have both answered that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35b0e733a8c4bbaa15c166c7aeee463\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked what advice he had had, not others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab04cefa5274078a9308eaca5517a06\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member can rephrase his answer to address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221631223e25f345d1ad00b3d8bf78a62d\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: At this stage, we are unaware of how many jobs will be lost. What we do know is that a number of jobs will be lost. We think this is greater than the impact of the global financial crisis and the unemployment then was around about 6.7 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd7feb00ba5472dadcd67554bc8bcce\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received on the number of small businesses that are likely to close as a result of the economic shock caused by COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a2117bdc8c4aff8568189450f8795b\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t received any advice\u2014it\u2019s early days yet\u2014but we have put a substantial package in place to lessen the blow to a lot of small to medium businesses\u2014keeping in mind, businesses with 19 or less employees make up about 97.5 percent of all businesses in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c77f28bd8e4da7a6641e31c220742c\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Does he continue to support the proposed increase to the minimum wage on 1 April, even though it is projected to impose a $300 million cost on businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230454a1255e247d59347fd97ab4e68bf\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa9e3dd049e94f1cbdacea83e4a9d5d2\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Does it concern him that the cost of the 1 April minimum wage increase will put additional unnecessary economic pressure on small businesses because of COVID-19, and that more jobs and businesses will likely be lost as a result?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227284bd803f3e4846a3ef004b00718ffe\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say: ref. Macroeconomic Stabilisers 101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214a3899d5904d57bba524b98bd2ad7c\u0022\u003EHon Iain Lees-Galloway\u003C/span\u003E: Will it be important to small businesses that New Zealanders continue to be able to spend in their local economies, and is it true that the people on the lowest incomes are most likely to spend in their local economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fa115cf26bd44758b26b420d9f64b68\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a very good point. An increase in the minimum wage will in fact put more money in the back pockets of those who are on, obviously, the lowest wages. What all the research and all the literature and all the case studies show is that, when people on the lowest wages have more money, they actually spend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5198b8ad31c457f991faefefde0f185\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002250a1970e5f8d4a05be904d75ad25c5fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250a1970e5f8d4a05be904d75ad25c5fe\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: What tax measures has he announced to support businesses affected by COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8cda2869b454814a0d184045972c455\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8cda2869b454814a0d184045972c455\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E In addition to the wage subsidy announcements today, the Minister of Finance and I announced a number of tax measures that will help support businesses who are affected by COVID-19. These measures are reinstating building depreciation for new and existing industrial and commercial buildings, and this includes hotels and motels; immediate deductions for low-value assets; increasing the provisional tax threshold from $2,500 to $5,000; writing off interest on late payments for tax for those who cannot pay their tax because of COVID-19; and information-sharing agreements with other agencies so they can help administer COVID-19 entitlements. These are tangible signs of action, and we are leading by example in our response to this global issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba800897c07d4e2b91f1e036af97f5be\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: How do these tax measures help support businesses affected by COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022126d385a1b1b483e92e9c626b6340e9e\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: The measures announced today will help support businesses by stimulating investment in new and existing buildings and increasing cash flows for businesses. Reinstating building depreciation for industrial and commercial buildings was identified as a key priority for improving productivity by the Tax Working Group. It will have a near immediate impact on a business\u2019s cash flow as it reduces the provisional tax payments for the income year, which begins next month for most taxpayers. Expensing low-value assets will incentivise taxpayers, especially small businesses, to invest in capital assets for their businesses and, in the long term, will reduce their compliance costs. Waiving interest on late tax payments for those taxpayers affected by COVID-19 will provide similar relief to taxpayers as seen in other adverse events or emergencies, and increasing the threshold for provisional tax means that around 95,000 taxpayers, many of whom are small businesses, will have more cash in hand during the year and it will reduce their compliance costs. We have taken a targeted approach so we can be more\u2014and this is likely to keep more people in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef37ac428f4140f185f77046abd42bda\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What responses has he seen in reaction to these tax measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d07349bb2742d98feb751ccd116a34\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH\u003C/span\u003E: Overall, this package has been positively received. Buy New Zealand Made\u2019s Ryan Jennings commented that the package is a positive move for businesses and it is a rescue plan to\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Csave businesses and their employees in the face of significant economic uncertainty.\u201D The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions\u2019 president, Richard Wagstaff, has said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThis package provides an immediate boost to get through these challenging times.\u201D And Kirk Hope from Business New Zealand says the package \u201Cwill substantially help businesses keep operating\u201D. The wage subsidy and tax measures were\u2014and I quote again\u2014\u201Cwell-focused on key areas of need\u201D and \u201Cwould provide much-needed breathing space and support for all businesses.\u201D The rainy day is here and this Government is providing the umbrellas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1508989212e4fbe83f919daf5851e91\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e30693de9b244e4a34069d68dd91129\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d42a2fd5a90d40da9307e0e2d7435912\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d42a2fd5a90d40da9307e0e2d7435912\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for the committee stage of the Abortion Legislation Bill, the third reading of the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill, the instruction to the committee for the Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill, the first reading of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, the committee stage of the Privacy Bill, the first reading of the Regulatory Systems (Transport) Amendment Bill, and the first reading of the Organic Products Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222eccae680ab545be8c90eda986d6383c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022171cc6df17834eeaaef167541a4e8e23\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2018/19 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002219bd244a1c5d4154846536ef006be3c6\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7f7d7f8979e472c8cad6e573be494d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7f7d7f8979e472c8cad6e573be494d2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I move, That the Appropriation (2018/19 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e454453005a4ce7b9b2d09ad7514688\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8dc7f4c4bac485e8b16aef1f1eef271\u0022\u003EAbortion Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022020de279a086457b99ccd76a1e650199\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000338\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 10 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002226f85a4b27814caa904330a2dbaf8662\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226f85a4b27814caa904330a2dbaf8662\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Abortion Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d262bae8868e4bb3825d5bdf4a4a895a\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db81ddf0d9d476caaf364eb46ddc51b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you calling for a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17c2f41764b427b87ad19821adacfe5\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: No. I seek to move an instruction to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0dd9ab61b04d1288cd500d58daee83\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry; you\u2019re too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228df4e56b4ce44bb4891d8e13f6a8d89b\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed617fbde214fe09ffc48034d218ffd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to rule on the first part, OK? It is too late to move an instruction to the committee. That should have been done when we were still in the House. OK? So if you\u2019ve got a further point of order which is different to that, I\u2019ll take the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002201e148ce4d064e80b37256dc62d35968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201e148ce4d064e80b37256dc62d35968\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Thank you, Mr Chair. I have been seeking a call for quite some time, calling out \u201CMr Chair\u201D, and that call has not been answered. That is not my fault.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002235b1266459b54589adf2398e7563b407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235b1266459b54589adf2398e7563b407\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry; I\u2019m the chair of the committee of the whole House. You should have been seeking that point of order with the Speaker of the House. Also, at the first order of business, I actually read out what we\u2019re doing in committee, which I\u2019m trying to do. I\u2019ll start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House is in committee on the Abortion Legislation Bill. Members, when we were last considering this bill we had concluded considering Part 1. We now come to consider Part 2. Members, Jan Logie\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 326 seeks to amend clause 11 of the bill to insert a new amendment to the Crimes Act 1961. That would substantially amend the key elements of the offence of killing an unborn child. This amendment is outside the scope of the bill as the bill only amends this offence for the purposes of clarifying that lawfully provided abortion services do not constitute that offence. This amendment, therefore, cannot be debated and will not be voted on. The other amendments in SOP 326 are in order and will be voted on. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262ade1fced7649aeabe6e723c049b41f\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other enactments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u00223324f36fde124d7e8942c85c0e81609f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223324f36fde124d7e8942c85c0e81609f\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to talk about my Supplementary Order Paper 463. I want to talk about the value of children and what they mean to all families in New Zealand\u2014to grandparents, to aunts and uncles, to brothers and sisters\u2014and I want to talk about the value that children have had and where this Government has been sitting over the rights of children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EMy Supplementary Order Paper looks at children accessing abortion, and that is in section 38 of the Care of Children Act 2004. What my Supplementary Order Paper does is insert, after Subpart 3, Subpart 3A to seek to amend the Care of Children Act 2004\u2014to actually have that whole section repealed so that children cannot go off and have an abortion without their parents, their caregiver, or their guardian knowing about it, and so that children and medical specialists have to gain permission from the parents or the guardians of that child to access an abortion. Currently, in the Care of Children Act 2004, in section 38, it is very clear in that children can access abortion, and that is abortion right up to the birth of a child. This is not good legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EIf this abortion bill is to go ahead, then we need to make sure that we protect our children so that they cannot\u2014cannot\u2014just bowl on up to an abortion clinic and have an abortion. I also want to talk a little bit more in general about children and mothers who may access an abortion because their child has been diagnosed with Down syndrome. Our emails have been flooded with people that are very concerned that this bill will actually end the lives of those unborn children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThis Abortion Legislation Bill is a very bad bill. It is bad because it is committing the unborn child to death and the unborn child has no right of reply. This bill is also allowing children to go off and have an abortion right up to the birth date of their unborn child, without the parents\u2019 knowing about it. How horrified I would be if I had a daughter that went off and had an abortion of my mokopuna that I didn\u2019t even know that she was carrying. How shocking would that be to my wh\u0101nau, how shocking would that be to her brothers and sisters if I had a daughter? I have sons, and they have partners and wives, and those women would not dare to access this service. So I want to ask this House, I want to ask the Government: do you really care for children? Do you really care for the unborn child? Because, with the way that this bill is written, they do not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAs I said in my first speech in Part 1, and also in the first reading, we as M\u0101ori\u2014we love our mokopuna. They are our future. This bill, effectively, ends their life before they even get a life, and that\u2019s why, in my SOP 463, I\u2019m asking that people support, after Subpart 3, new clause 16A, the \u201CAmendment of the Care of Children Act 2004\u201D\u2014that\u2019s by repealing it. They, in new clause 16B, repeal section 38\u2014consent to abortion for children. Let the parents know this. As a parent, I would be devastated, and I know there will be a number of parents out there. This is a bill that, effectively, ends the life, as I have said over and over again in this House, and I cannot say it more. And my colleagues that are against this bill, as I am, will also get up and speak around not supporting this abortion legislation. Let this particular SOP go through. Let\u2019s protect our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6329c09d637495d89d718d275283699\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6329c09d637495d89d718d275283699\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I rise and take a call on my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) in Part 2: SOP 470. Before I do, I want to acknowledge that it is an emotive subject that many people in our community have been emailing, talking to us\u2014people have been saying karakias and prayers. I want to acknowledge the fact that I was gifted this: this is a model of a 20-week-old fetus. It is to remind us of what we are actually debating about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge from Louise Kapene Green, where she gave a korowai, and this korowai is to acknowledge our p\u0113p\u0113s, our young babies, and the importance of what we are doing in this House. We talk about the vulnerability and the frailty of our children, so I\u2019ve brought this into the committee on their behalf to remind us what it is that we are doing in this Chamber. On that note, this SOP is about safety and concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn this Chamber, many have actually talked about that the bills and the legislation we put through this House should ensure the safety and wellbeing of our community and of our people. If that is so\u2014if that is a principle that many members of this House have followed and adhered to and claim to believe in\u2014then I believe that this SOP is something that they should consider. I know there to be many members who have given their proxy votes over and have allowed the whim and the will of whoever that proxy\u2019s given to. May I plead and implore those members in this committee to look at SOP 470?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u201CThis Supplementary Order Paper amends the Abortion Legislation Bill by inserting new clauses 16A and 16B, which give the Health and Disability Commissioner a mandate to investigate contraventions of the regulations that govern the provision of abortion services under the Contraception, Sterilisation, and Abortion Act 1977 and the Crimes Act 1961. Simply put, this ensures that health practitioners are held to account in relation to their duties under this Bill. Without a means by which infractions of regulations related to abortions can be investigated, the regulations have no power to protect women and ensure that abortion is administered in a safe and appropriate way.\u201D Can I repeat that: \u201Cin a safe and appropriate way.\u201D This may, for example, mean that a medical practitioner did not adhere to those restrictions imposed by the test for post - 20 week abortions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to read from the Law Commission, who state this: \u201C \u2018Without an enforcement mechanism, there may be less incentive for health practitioners to give proper consideration to the test\u2019. For the Bill to be meaningful in practice, it must include a specific power of enforcement. This must include the power to review a health practitioner\u2019s actions in the administration of abortion. The explanatory note of this Bill highlights that the changes to the status quo \u2018will mean that abortion is, in general, provided like other health services\u2019, and that would mean there would exist \u2018avenues for health consumers to make complaints about their care and for complaints to be independently assessed by the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2019.\u201D\u2014from their submission. \u201CThe Health and Disability Commissioner is already well equipped to review the actions of \u2026 health practitioner[s] for breaches of the Code of Health and Disability Services [under the] Consumers\u2019 Rights.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI put it to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little: would he consider this as a precaution, again, from the Law Commission in which he commissioned the scope of the bill to ensure the safety and concern? This was purely from that perspective. Irrespective of how we vote in the Chamber, I genuinely want to put this inside the committee and to the Minister: would he consider this as a precaution to ensure that? How will we hold them to account? How will we ensure that the services that are offered to women in regards to the abortion\u2014and we\u2019ve talked about the trauma, at times, that they would go through. What happens in the case where there is not only a legal but a breach of that convention to provide the best care possible and, in this case, a traumatic incident?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI would say to the Minister that he should consider this SOP as being appropriate. I would say to the members of this committee, even those that are not here: again, irrespective of how you vote, will you consider this SOP for a safety reason? \u201CThe Health and Disability Commissioner Act 1994 is drafted in such a way that the [Commission] \u2018may\u2019 investigate, but is at no stage required to pursue an investigation. Such a distinction ensures that the Commissioner is not required to investigate spurious claims.\u201D I believe that this is a well-considered, well-constructed, appropriate SOP that I would like to put on to the Table for the Minister to consider, but also, more importantly, for the members of the committee to consider this as an appropriate safety measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb13899d40c7405fafd049fc2e953380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb13899d40c7405fafd049fc2e953380\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wish to speak to the excellent Supplementary Order Paper 479 in the name of my colleague Melissa Lee. This Supplementary Order Paper does a number of very important things. First, let me start, however, by explaining that it relates to a person, as defined in this Supplementary Order Paper, who commits an offence if they do certain things in providing abortion services. For the sake of clarity, let me spell out for this committee: the thrust of this amendment in the name of my colleague Melissa Lee is around conduct that is unconscionable by the doctor, essentially, or other health professional, as distinct from the woman who is seeking an abortion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt highlights the founding fiction of this proposed law change overall that it is about removing the decriminalisation of women seeking abortion services when it is understood and noted that there has never been a single criminal offence prosecuted under the Act successfully in relation to the woman seeking the services, as distinct from the doctor or the health professional conducting them. That is my first point. My second is that we are talking about a situation of disability or possible disability of the unborn child. The precautionary principle is appropriate in matters of life and death. We do not always know as a matter of factual certainty whether a child is disabled or may only possibly be disabled, and so it\u2019s appropriate that I acknowledge the drafting by Melissa Lee in relation to the \u201Cabnormality\u201D, as it might be described\u2014but \u201Cdisability\u201D in the most straightforward terms\u2014as reflecting the fact of possible disability being the basis under the law as introduced to this House without any such test at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy next point is that it relates to the status of the unborn child in a similar way that SOP 475 of Parmjeet Parmar does. Dr Parmar stated in an earlier part of the bill that in her preference it would be that sex selection, or gender selection, as it\u2019s also known, would be a practice that was explicitly outlawed in New Zealand, namely that\u2014and I relate it to this current proposal on a similar philosophical basis\u2014the personal characteristics, or the demographic characteristics, if you will, of the unborn child should not be determinative of her right to continue to be able to live. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere is a symbolic element, as well. We are not only talking about the ground of disability under the Human Rights Act 1993 as a basis for discrimination but also, in the way that Ms Lee has drafted her proposal, it would be outlawed to make an offence the abortion of any unborn child\u2014and I use that phrase as it is used in the legislation\u2014on any of the prohibited grounds of discrimination set out in section 21 of the Human Rights Act 1993. Those would be such as would apply to the unborn child if they had become a human being. So what we see there is an acknowledgment of the humanity of the unborn child and, therefore, the appropriateness that the Human Rights Act should apply, clearly, in that case. Any members of this committee and anyone who is watching this debate should, surely, realise that the prohibition in the Human Rights Act against discrimination is precisely what this proposal and, again, that of Dr Parmar were directed to seek to avoid. It is that discrimination with which we must concern ourselves and turn our attention to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe next point that I would like to make is that the formulation of the amendment by Ms Lee explicitly sets out the underlying tension between leaving in the Crimes Act the offence of killing an unborn child\u2014and I use that phrase deliberately and precisely. It could be with quote marks and, indeed, it is a precise quote from a particular section of the Crimes Act. That will remain in force, unaffected by the legislation as introduced by the Minister of Justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe tension is this. I acknowledge the characterisation of the unborn child by Melissa Lee, and she also goes on to talk about the applicability of the Human Rights Act if that unborn child would go on to \u201Cbecome a human being\u201D. So what we have here, highlighted by Melissa Lee\u2019s SOP 479, is a situation where we\u2019re talking about a potential scenario according to the legal fiction that seems to be holding sway in this case that we can have an unborn child who is not a human being. Indeed, we can have a child who is not a human being, which in semantic terms is an absurdity. It\u2019s a logical absurdity that you could have a child being a subset of a human being described as not yet a human being on the basis of a legal fiction that she is not yet at that point able to be described as such. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFor that reason, I feel strongly that other members of this House, whatever their views might be on the legislation overall, should acknowledge and take heed of the words of another colleague and friend, Agnes Loheni, when she said she was simply looking for a semblance of recognition of some kind of balance and acknowledgment of the status\u2014some sort of recognition of the human rights status of the unborn child. Of course, as reflected in this SOP and in the others that she was referring to, the legal status should match the scientific reality, or the physical reality, indeed, that we have an independent entity inside an adult human being\u2014ordinarily an adult, or at least one who is older than the unborn child, of course\u2014who is pregnant, that person who is pregnant. We have an acknowledgment of the independent movement and the fact that in 50 percent of the time, roughly speaking, the unborn child would have the opposite gender from his or her mother and has unique DNA and so forth, not to mention a heartbeat that beats out of time with that of his or her mother, indicating clearly that with that, along with the brain development function, we have indeed what is, in fact, a human being, as quite rightly described at least in passing by the SOP. But the SOP, sadly, is forced to acknowledge the legal fiction that an unborn child is not a human being. For that reason alone, I think it is symbolically important that this committee should pass this Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ETwo more points before I relinquish this opportunity to continue speaking on this SOP: the first is that the proposal is actually, I believe, stated in very reasonable and measured terms. It includes in the section that Melissa Lee is proposing be included an acknowledgment of a scenario where an unborn child may be affected by a condition that is likely to lead to her death either before birth or within 28 days thereof. That\u2019s an acknowledgment that the underlying intention is to preserve life. It is not proposed in a mindless fashion or oblivious to the fact that many difficult scenarios do arise, but nevertheless, that is a situation that should be taken into account in the context overall of the fact that we should not discriminate against our most vulnerable citizens most of all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EFinally, I just wanted to note the context of the debate in relation to this SOP around the concept of the wanted child. We\u2019ve heard a lot about the status of a child being either wanted or unwanted\u2014their very life depends upon it, it seems. That much is so in the structure of the law as interpreted by the Government sponsoring the bill, stating that the significance of the 20-week threshold at which one regime applies and the other becomes non-applicable, and vice versa\u2014it is said that at 20 weeks a decision has effectively been made that a child is wanted. It might be that a case is determined in such a bright-line fashion, but I doubt it. But the bigger point, surely, is that human life should not be determined in relation to it being wanted or not by other human beings. We have, sadly, far too many examples in this country of human life not valued by others, and therefore the law being taken into the hands of those who do not value it. For the law to perpetuate the idea that there is such a thing as a wanted child who has value and an unwanted child who does not is a very sad thing, to say the least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy final comment is to acknowledge the wonderful correspondence that many of us have received from the group Downright Discrimination, specifically advocating for the Down syndrome community in this country. Please know that your thoughts are understood, acknowledged, and, in this Supplementary Order Paper of Melissa Lee, recognised. I very much hope we can pass this for you today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5e6241e5cfd4e46acb668ce75ad667e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5e6241e5cfd4e46acb668ce75ad667e\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Can I also say, \u201CL\u00E1 Fh\u00E9ile P\u00E1draig Shona Daoibh\u201D, which means Happy Saint Patrick\u2019s Day, everybody. It\u2019s appropriate, in a way, that I begin there, because I actually want to speak to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 292, in the name of Darroch Ball. That SOP essentially wants, if this bill is successful within the context of this Parliament, to force a referendum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe reason that I say it\u2019s appropriate that I\u2019m dressed in green and that we\u2019re talking about the Irish is because the fundamental question I think we all have to ask each other is: do we need a referendum to pass this bill? The answer, quite clearly, is no. The reason Ireland had to go down the referendum pathway was because they had to repeal the eighth amendment, which was part of their constitution. That was the only way that they could get abortion law reform in Ireland. We are not in that situation; so do we need a referendum to approve of this bill? The answer is no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EBut what I did want to highlight was that what they repealed, in fact, in Ireland, was that the life of the unborn fetus had the same value as that of its mother. That was in the context of a woman who was pregnant who needed an abortion, and she had to endure several days in hospital. They actually didn\u2019t help her. The fetus was unviable, but its heart was still beating and, in fact, this particular woman died. That\u2019s what created the opportunity for abortion law reform in Ireland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo I think, fundamentally, we have to think about that, because the pros and cons of having a referendum actually provides what the academics call an opportunity for false actors. These false actors then perpetrate misinformation and disinformation, and they misrepresent these positions to the general public. It is, in fact, like the issue that I\u2019ve received emails about, in terms of aborting Down syndrome children up until the 40th week, and people saying, for example, that we\u2019re going to be aborting babies that are ready to be born. That is not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe reality of the testing regime in New Zealand\u2014and I\u2019ve looked at the 2016 monitoring report on antenatal screening, which includes trisomy-21 and other conditions. Eighty-one percent of people who get pregnant in New Zealand actually choose to have these screenings. We provide them as the State from the 14th week and then the 20th week, which provides parents with information about whether or not there is something wrong with their child. Do they have these abnormalities? So we provide this tool so that parents can make an informed decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI use it as an example because we\u2019ve all received this propaganda saying that we\u2019re going to abort children with Down syndrome. But the reality is that 50 to 80 children with Down syndrome are born every year\u201450 to 80. So we are not aborting all children with Down syndrome. In fact, if you go online to the Health Navigator, we have the New Zealand Down Syndrome Association, we have the Health and Disability Commissioner, and we have IHC New Zealand who are there to support and provide information to parents who, in spite of the screen, want to continue to have their child, and they will support and love their children\u2014as I mentioned last week, with Barry and Colleen Brown and their 40-year-son, Travers. So the disinformation out there that all children with Down syndrome are going to be aborted is incorrect\u2014is absolutely incorrect. At the end of the day, it\u2019s the choice of the parents. I would have thought, as a fundamental principle, this Parliament would reinforce that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe other thing it does is it creates divisions. That\u2019s what referendums do: they create divisions, create divisions between the people who are for it\u2014well, I certainly am, as a woman\u2014a lot of women\u2019s groups, the National Council of Women, and those who believe in bodily autonomy as a human rights condition: that it\u2019s my body, it\u2019s my choice. Who are we up against in this debate? You see a lot of them have been the churches and the church leaders, and we\u2019ve all started to receive correspondence from our churches and church leaders\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00223d920fcac76b4341b55ae181f81b6c8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d920fcac76b4341b55ae181f81b6c8f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m going to have to take umbrage with a couple of things. Bodily autonomy applies to the child; what\u2019s being aborted is a human child. I\u2019d also want to point out, because it\u2019s the language of progressives, something called \u201Cunconscious bias\u201D. The speaker who I respect personally, who just took her seat, said that there\u2019s something wrong with the child, referring to Down syndrome\u2014that there\u2019s something wrong. I want to say to all those Down syndrome children that I know\u2014I\u2019m thinking of Oscar, and hello to Pip and Dean, his parents, who were on The Project last week\u2014there\u2019s nothing wrong with that child; he is an absolutely celebrated gift. I\u2019m not going to stand in this Chamber and continue to have people\u2014and it\u2019s more than just the last speaker\u2014continue to dehumanise the human child. I have said it before: we have done this so many times in our history of humanity\u2014the first step is to dehumanise, and then the terrible actions follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also think that we need to point out\u2014and why we\u2019re dealing in Part 2 of how we deal with discrimination\u2014is a story that was sent to me by a guy called Jeremy. His daughter, who they managed to hold alive for seven days, had chromosomal problems. His key point was that all the way up to 20 weeks, in particular, there was pressure from the doctors to abort. They had done the tests\u2014and yes, you know, those of us who, I suppose, want to practise between naivety and ignorance, will say, \u201COh, well, we\u2019ll just make our choices.\u201D, but here are the doctors putting pressure on Jeremy and his wife to abort the baby. His fundamental argument is that, actually, they decided\u2014they made the choice\u2014to allow that child to be born. It was only for seven days\u2014only for seven days. They say they were absolutely wonderful days, and I can appreciate that. But their fundamental point is that if we don\u2019t pass the likes of Melissa Lee\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), that pressure will continue. So putting it really simply to the Chamber that post - 20 weeks, the doctors who do the testing will continue\u2014and it could be the nurses and other health practitioners\u2014to put pressure down on those parents. It\u2019s that naivety, again, of this choice argument\u2014this ethical argument in a cuckoo nest, which pushes out every other ethical considerations\u2014that human beings always act calmly and rationally with full information. We don\u2019t, OK? We\u2019re terribly flawed individuals who make very, very stupid decisions all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a real story from Jeremy and his family. The pressure will continue. The discrimination will continue. It will continue for the simple reason, as we\u2019ve already heard in the discussion today, there is something wrong with these people\u2014there is nothing wrong with them. If we listen to disability advocates, they have to suffer every day in a community that, I would argue, fears them and fears their disability. I, for one, want that community to know that I don\u2019t fear them; I celebrate them and I see them as just as human as I am.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also want to note the importance of a number of these Supplementary Order Papers to Part 2 because they\u2019re putting some restrictions around what\u2019s happening. Why we need to put these restrictions in is that we get laws wrong. I would just point out that we\u2019ve had yet another attempt today, and it\u2019s been cocked up, to bring safe zones back into this bill. Yet another botched attempt to bring safe zones back in\u2014stuffed up as it was last week; stuffed up again today. These things happen because of bad law and bad processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224deb48448e9f4ab09ab6a69a17a4e9bc\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re making things up, mate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e823ee14621d479186dce5ed8b75dcd8\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: So, really\u2014and once again, I think it must be Jan Logie who\u2019s making things up; no, it\u2019s quite real\u2014we\u2019ve had another stuff-up today. Well, a stuff-up from those who want to put in safe zones, who want to attack freedom of speech, freedom of conscience. But why I\u2019m illustrating this is that that is the reason we need to have the likes of Alfred Ngaro\u2019s amendment and why we need the likes of Simeon Brown\u2019s amendment: MPs make mistakes\u2014they continually make mistakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELooking through the bill\u2014particularly in Part 2\u2014I think we just need to draw attention, and Chris Penk articulated this far, far better around, sort of, one of the false premises of this bill, in replacement section 183(2), inserted by clause 12, which says, \u201CThe woman is not guilty of an offence under this section.\u201D Well, that\u2019s good to know, but why it needs to be highlighted is that the current law in New Zealand has not, never has, never could, and never would criminalise women. It\u2019s one of the great falsities. I need to point it out again that our media has been absolutely complicit in pushing these falsities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI want to draw particular attention, if I might, to Supplementary Order Paper 463, in the name of Joanne Hayes. Hers is referring to an amendment to insert a new Subpart 3A, which is around the amendment to the Care of Children Act 2004. In support of this SOP, I want to note that it\u2019s particularly for children\u2014[Bell rung] Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201fd2da27234409f94b8012ceccef013\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Simon O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe42b9a66c6f465fabf519b4a5722f54\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. What Joanne Hayes is trying to do is give a little bit of surety to those who are minors that their parents need to be informed about an abortion. Now, for pro-death and pro-abortion advocates, this is verboten, we can\u2019t go there, which is remarkable because, as a stepparent myself, basically, nobody can give even a Panadol or a piece of advice or even a hug to any of my stepkids, but they\u2014well, not all of them; some of them are boys, just for Jan Logie\u2019s sake there\u2014the girls would be whipped out to an abortion clinic just like that under this current legislation; no reference to the parents, caregivers; nobody. But, as I say, if the school that my\u2014well, no, she\u2019s left now\u2014stepdaughter attended wanted to give her a Panadol, there would be phone calls, there would be lines of communication; it wouldn\u2019t end. Now, look, that\u2019s fundamentally\u2014fundamentally\u2014flawed and absolutely ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve said recently, around anything like this, it\u2019s all about consistency. One of the ways that you can always find out if a bill is flawed\u2014and I would suggest this one is, legally, but also morally and ethically\u2014is there is no consistency. So, again, I just find it absurd. I mean, again, a teacher can\u2019t even give a child a hug but they can take them by the hand and lead them to an abortion clinic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EOne only needs to think of the story of Hillary Kieft\u2014I know the Abortion Legislation Committee dealt with that last year\u2014a woman who had wondered why her daughter was so incredibly depressed and suicidal; in fact, there may have been suicide attempts. The only way she found out was after imploring her daughter and finding out that her daughter had been taken for an abortion. No one knew. The daughter was struggling with it. The mum had no idea, none of the wider wh\u0101nau support crew knew until that ultimate cry for help, which is suicide. I do wonder\u2014and it\u2019s a pure speculation\u2014how many of our young people end their lives and we never know the cause and the decisions that they\u2019ve made where, actually, we as a community, and certainly as family, would have thrown love and support around that person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI want to turn my attention now to SOP 479. I\u2019m not going to say too much on it, because she herself is awesome: Melissa Lee, she\u2019ll talk to it. But, of course, there should be grounds to stop discrimination. Good God, I almost get bored out of my brain at the amount of times, particularly from the progressive side of the Parliament, but, sadly, it includes some in the National Party, who wax lyrical about discrimination and tolerance and diversity\u2014all good notions\u2014and yet aren\u2019t actually prepared to stop discrimination here. There are wet bus ticket words\u2014\u201COh, we really shouldn\u2019t do sex selection.\u201D\u2014well, put it in firmly in the bill: this country, this Parliament does not stand for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe should also add that in terms of disability. Some people have, you know, again, talked about, \u201CWell, we still might have some Down syndrome people killed.\u201D; again, I just ask the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, if he\u2019s prepared to address the question that I put out last week that in the likes of Iceland, for those people who take testing, how many of those Down syndrome kids live? The answer is really, really low. [Phone vibrates] Oh, hold on! This might be Iceland calling now\u2014I doubt it, because they know the answer\u2019s pretty shocking, as well. So it\u2019s really, really shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI do, like Chris Penk, want to do an absolute shout-out to the likes of Downright Discrimination. You guys are awesome, continuing to voice for your community; it\u2019s an absolute shocker and a shame how you are derided by bigoted people in this House. You have the right to put forward your information, you have the right to stand by your information, and you should not\u2014and will never be from people like myself and others who are pro-life\u2014be derided for having a view which is inconvenient, because, at the end of the day, we celebrate your children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo then let\u2019s turn our attention to Alfred Ngaro\u2019s SOP to finish it\u2014another awesome guy. I think it\u2019s really great that he brought the 20-week-old image out. That\u2019s what we\u2019re dealing with. I understand, actually, that some in the media, so scared of this topic, have actually banned\u2014would you believe it?\u2014images of children at different stages of development. What is so scary to this House and the media, particularly those, I believe, in The Dominion Post\u2014let\u2019s put that on the record again for people who subscribe: The Dominion Post\u2014about a child? Unbelievable. It\u2019s an absolute disgrace and borders on corruption. Anyway, Alfred Ngaro, who\u2019s definitely not corrupt\u2014a good man\u2014he just wants that the commissioner may have the power to investigate the breaches. If you\u2019re going to have a piece of legislation that things shouldn\u2019t happen in a certain way, well, you need the power to follow them up; it\u2019s nonsensical, I would suggest, to not have this power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, look, I\u2019m going to end it there. I\u2019m grateful for two calls. I think the Chamber might just get the sense that I\u2019m a little passionate about this. But, as I say in a video that I released a littler earlier today\u2014here\u2019s a bit of self-glorification; doesn\u2019t do one great for their humility\u2014actually, if we\u2019re about human rights, it applies to all, including the unborn child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcfdd77d60e4c24ada648ecfef19bbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcfdd77d60e4c24ada648ecfef19bbc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Before I call the Minister, can I ask members of the public in the gallery\u2014this debate is for members of Parliament. They are the only ones that can contribute to this debate. Applause from the gallery is not permitted, actually, and so I\u2019m going to ask members of the public to observe that rule, and I call the Hon Andrew Little.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223f0024c865124a959d7fc3785d5136ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f0024c865124a959d7fc3785d5136ee\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I take this opportunity just to respond to some of the points raised in debate so far. Again, as I have previously, I acknowledge this is an issue that is very sensitive to many members and there are members who are participating in this debate who would rather we were abolishing abortion. That is not what this bill is about, and that debate was lost and won\u2014or, in fact, lost\u2014in 1977. We are not having the 1977 debate again. We are talking about taking the 1977 legislation and making it relevant to New Zealand in the 21st century. That\u2019s what this debate is about. And it doesn\u2019t help, I think, for the reputation of this House, for those, no matter how passionate, like the member Simon O\u2019Connor, to be making assertions and statements that are simply out of step not only with the bill but actually with the current legislation. It does help the debate when we accurately reflect what the current law is, so that we understand what the changes are that are being made, and it\u2019s in that spirit I want to respond to some of the points made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, I know that the member Joanne Hayes is deeply opposed to abortion. She made that very clear and, therefore, I\u2019m not quite sure how helpful some of her argument was. But, in terms of repealing section 38 of the Care of Children Act and not allowing medical practitioners to make the judgment about whether the person in front of them has the capacity to consent to a procedure, that would be taking a giant step back. And here\u2019s the problem for Mr O\u2019Connor and Ms Hayes: that is a provision that protects a young woman, even a woman who is under age, from having to get the support of a parent, particularly if the parent, particularly the father of the daughter, is the father of the pregnancy\u2014because that is the reality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EA young under-age woman should not be forced into the position of having to get the consent of the person who may well be the father of the child if that father of the child is also father of the young woman. That\u2019s the situation that Mr O\u2019Connor and Ms Hayes will be putting a young woman in. Now, I know Mr O\u2019Connor used the dramatic language of those who support \u201Cdeath and murder\u201D, but I wouldn\u2019t want to be a member who supports incest and affords no protection to a young under-age woman for being able to get a medical procedure to protect her from that, because that\u2019s the position that Mr O\u2019Connor is putting himself in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo that provision, that section 38, is absolutely vital to ensure that that young woman who has capacity can, with the help of the medical practitioner she is talking to, make that decision, and it is often a difficult decision. The reality is most young women in that position will have some sort of family or parental support, but that cannot be guaranteed and we should not be putting young people in that position, which would simply amount to further abuse of that person. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI now turn to Alfred Ngaro\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 470. I know Alfred Ngaro. I consider myself a political friend of Alfred Ngaro\u2019s. He holds his political faith deeply to him and he articulates his faith well, pretty much every time he speaks in Parliament. That\u2019s one of the things I admire about Alfred Ngaro. I understand what he wants to achieve with his SOP, which is the obvious, which is that if there is abuse by a medical practitioner of their rights and powers in terms of advice or not giving the right advice or not doing the right things to a woman seeking an abortion there should be not only an investigation but a follow-up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut I say to Alfred Ngaro that actually is already contained in the legislation that covers the Health and Disability Commissioner. The Health and Disability Commissioner already has the power to do that, and the references that he made to the Law Commission report were about saying there needs to be an enforceability of this. Medical practitioners are governed by their professional and their ethical standards and all those rules and guidelines they are bound to as professionals, and that is why we have the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2014not only to apply the letter of the law but to ensure that medical and health practitioners are following their professional and moral obligations as well. So that is already provided for, and I think the problem with SOP 470 is it simply replicates what is already there, and it\u2019s for that reason that I don\u2019t support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI turn to the comments by the member Chris Penk, who argued in favour of SOP 479 about criminalising abortion. The reality is the starting point for abortion is that it is a crime. It is a defence to the crime that you\u2019ve had an abortion consistently with the Contraception, Sterilisation, and Abortion Act. That is the legal structure of abortion in New Zealand. That is why this legislation seeks to take abortion out of a criminal framework and to make it a matter for the health system, for health or medical practitioners, and the women who seek the support and assistance and consultation at a time when they are faced with making that decision. That is why that provision, the new section 183, is there. As I said, as I argued when the House was last in committee debating this, I don\u2019t go with us legislating for health standards and putting obligations on health practitioners that are already provided for in their professional practice, in their articulated professional obligations, and the things that their various colleges put out for them and require them to abide by and comply with, because that is the basis of complaints not only to the profession themselves but to the Health and Disability Commissioner as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ETurning to Louisa Wall\u2019s comments, I agree with Louisa Wall that this is not legislation that, in my view, meets the test of the need for a referendum. We already have referendums in relation to end of life choice, because we don\u2019t have any legal framework. We never have had a legal framework for that, and that is a huge step in terms of social policy to make and it is right that that should be subject to a referendum. Likewise with legalising cannabis: we haven\u2019t had legalised cannabis\u2014or it\u2019s been absolutely prohibited since 1965; it\u2019s had partial prohibition since 1927. So legalising it is a huge step in terms of social policy. It is a matter on which the electorate ought to have the opportunity to express a view, and so they will have the opportunity to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe have a framework for abortions right now\u2014have had since 1977\u2014and although the number of abortions each year has been declining, there are roughly around 13,000 abortions carried out each year. That is already happening. What we are talking about is the framework under which women will be allowed to make that decision and seek advice and seek support and under which abortions will take place, but we already have a provision for that. This is nothing new; there is no giant leap in terms of social policy, and therefore, in my view, it does not justify a referendum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn relation to other comments by Mr O\u2019Connor\u2014and I know he argues that we are dehumanising the child. We are not; abortion is not about, you know, killing children. It is about women who, early in their pregnancy, make a decision they don\u2019t want the pregnancy and seek medical assistance accordingly. Women do not, halfway through pregnancy, decide on a whim they no longer want the pregnancy. No one can ever point to a situation where that has happened. That is not how it is, and we do great disrespect, and members in the public gallery do as well, to women in this country if they think that women in this country kind of just at random and spontaneously partway through a pregnancy\u201420 weeks, 30 weeks, or, as some have argued, at birth\u2014decide they\u2019re going to terminate the pregnancy. That doesn\u2019t happen. It is a ridiculous assertion to make. It is an insult to the women of New Zealand, and I just hope that people might stop saying it. It doesn\u2019t help\u2014people can put all sorts of photos and images up. That does not reflect the reality of the issue we are dealing with. It is simply false to say so, and those images are just plainly ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI go back to the point I made before: Simon O\u2019Connor was concerned about doctors putting pressure on parents. Now, this might be a matter of perception, because I think\u2014in fact, all the evidence I have, and at my age I\u2019ve consulted a few medical practitioners\u2014they have an obligation to be, and in my experience New Zealand health practitioners are very good at being, very realistic to people about the medical condition that they\u2019re facing, and what might to some at a very sensitive, vulnerable moment look like pressure might actually just be some blunt advice about \u201CThis is the reality of the situation you\u2019re facing. Your health interests are compromised.\u201D\u2014or it may be in some cases the health of the fetus is seriously compromised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat is advice that a health practitioner should be giving to a pregnant woman and, where they\u2019re involved, the pregnant woman\u2019s partner or the father of the child. That is what a health practitioner should be doing, and it is possible that that could be seen as putting pressure on the parent. Good on those parents who went through with the pregnancy, had the birth, even though the child didn\u2019t survive. I know many parents who\u2019ve been through that experience. It is deeply emotional, and they are deeply vulnerable, and it doesn\u2019t help for that to be paraded out as somehow some sort of mistake of the abortion legislation\u2014because it\u2019s not, and let\u2019s be very clear about what we\u2019re talking about in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00221d2ec49cfa3f4c8fadf7d647f9e7327f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d2ec49cfa3f4c8fadf7d647f9e7327f\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I rise to make a contribution in this debate, Part 2 of the Abortion Legislation Bill, and I want to support Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 479 in the name of my colleague Melissa Lee. The intention of this SOP is to prevent disability discrimination by ensuring that a person who commits this offence is liable on conviction to a term of imprisonment not exceeding seven years. The person does not commit an offence if the medical practitioner provides a certificate confirming the unborn child is affected by a condition that is likely to lead to the death of the unborn child either before or within 28 days of the birth. It\u2019s also important to note that the woman is not guilty of an offence under this section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThis SOP is important because, as I have alluded to prior in this Chamber, section 11 of this bill\u2014and I am talking about this bill because I notice that the Minister has spoken and has said that we are trying to debate abortion. The fact that some members in this House may have a view on abortion does not discount our view on this particular bill, which is liberalising the current laws. And I noticed the Minister has tried a number of times to say, \u201CYou members, you don\u2019t like abortion. Actually, that\u2019s what it\u2019s about.\u201D That is not what it\u2019s about. I have been very clear in this committee, in talking about section 11, specifically the criteria, which is very broad, very vague, very loose. Because of that, it makes those pre-born babies, unborn babies, and I will say that\u2014I will absolutely say that: they are unborn babies. I had six of them inside of me. I know what they are. That makes unborn babies with disabilities or other defects very, very vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI noticed that the member Louisa has said that people aren\u2019t aborting their babies with Down syndrome, and I would hope for that to be true. You were saying that under our current law, but it is now a different scenario with this bill that is in front of us, which is what we are debating, which we are saying to this House is a totally different picture now. It\u2019s a totally different scenario. We\u2019re kicking open that door post - 20 weeks. We are lowering the threshold, and it does make those families, those pre-born babies, very, very vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThey have reached out to us and asked us to advocate and to be their voice, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m here to do. So I ask this committee to consider and to support this SOP. And it is needed because of section 11. It is needed because my amendment to tighten up section 11 was not acceptable in this committee\u2014absolutely not accepted. And yet we all want to talk about no discrimination\u2014no discrimination for people with a disability. The disability community in New Zealand already feel vulnerable. They already feel like they are inferior. They already have challenges. And now we\u2019re going to put in a law that makes them even less so because of how unborn babies with disabilities will be treated under this bill. They are very, very vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI want to bring in, in my remaining time, one of the submissions. Again, I remind the House: there were 25,000 submissions in Opposition to this bill. Over 91 percent oppose this bill. This is just one of the many stories that came through, and this particular one is very relevant to this part. Philippa Barlow: her son, when she was pregnant, was diagnosed with hypoplastic left heart syndrome. She made a very powerful submission, and when she was in the surgery with her husband, there was intense pressure on her from the specialist to have an abortion. Even though they had made their case very strongly to specialists that abortion was not an option, there was immense pressure. And in fact, because it was post - 20 weeks, they suggested that she could fly to Australia to have an abortion. If that was the pressure for those families now, you can imagine the pressure there would be under this new bill. On a positive note, that baby, their son, is 13 years old today, and he is well adjusted. There are some things that he can\u2019t do in terms of sport. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00226a6001172d36461a99640547b600123d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a6001172d36461a99640547b600123d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you for an opportunity to speak on the Abortion Legislation Bill in the committee stage. I do just want to start by acknowledging Louisa Wall for her consistency in regards to the issue of referendums, because she is consistent in her advocacy that issues like this should not be put out to a vote, and I acknowledge the fact that she also voted against our referendum on the End of Life Choice Bill. So I do just want to acknowledge you, Louisa Wall, and your contribution on that issue, and I do, in acknowledging her position, also acknowledge the inconsistency of many other colleagues in this House who view this issue and decided that they do not wish to put this to a referendum because they do not feel that this is the type of issue, for whatever reason\u2014whereas the issue of a referendum on the End of Life Choice Bill was, of course, for political convenience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225755eb2805534f4aacf469e2c6dd618b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member, but I should have pointed out when Louisa Wall was speaking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e32587f3cb4044048471796b97b29d08\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5b6c7d28f064c32b0ca96139891489e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I\u2019m just making a ruling\u2014that we will debate the referendum under clauses 1 and 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab5b87688ec944b786a47c80058f5519\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Chairperson. Yes, I\u2019m speaking to points not only raised by Louisa Wall but also by the Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little, who actually spoke on that very topic. So I\u2019m simply entering the debate, which I believe has already been opened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3b0dee6be541dcb45ec65cbc3799ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: You can have a debating point under clauses 1 and 2, but not under Part 2. So you can mention that, but you need to make it relevant to Part 2, and so far you haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0ffb2ed22cd46ce986299b294a863cd\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Right, OK. Well, I\u2019ll continue if that\u2019s all right, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240a89f012c5e4f5d863b939c9b2c262e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes; Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4cf1c644ee34ca986685870269fd00d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, I\u2019d like to move on to some of the points raised by the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, where he spoke in response to questions around Down syndrome and whether there was pressure being applied to women in these situations. He said that there was no pressure, but there could be perceived to be pressure. I do just want to acknowledge the submission which was raised by my colleague Agnes Loheni, where there is a clear case of someone who came to the committee, who put in a submission, and said, \u201CThis is the pressure that I am having. This is the pressure which is being applied by the medical professionals.\u201D\u2014and the concern raised by that submitter as to what would happen if this bill is passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI challenge Andrew Little, the Minister in the chair, on that point: how can he stand in this Chamber and say no pressure is applied? How can he stand in this Chamber and say that medical professionals are simply just doing their job? The select committee listened to only a very few submitters\u2014160 submitters out of 25,000. The select committee didn\u2019t take the time to actually go through the submitters and listen to what is a substantial number of New Zealanders who brought forward concerns, who brought forward their views and their experiences to this issue, and were denied the opportunity to come to Parliament and to be able to speak to those submissions in front of the select committee. So I challenge the Minister on that point where he says that, and I challenge him to provide evidence as to what he bases his claim upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to speak in support of the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) put forward by my colleague Melissa Lee, which are SOPs 478 and 479, and in doing so I acknowledge the number of emails that I\u2019ve received from people across my electorate of Pakuranga, from the Downright Discrimination campaign, and acknowledge their concerns which they are raising over how this bill will operate and discriminate against their community. I know many people in my community who have a very big passion for ensuring that we as Parliament and parliamentarians, and me as their member of Parliament, have a society that is free of discrimination. I implore Parliament to consider these Supplementary Order Papers, which will go somewhat towards being able to make a positive difference in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI find it deeply offensive when language is used such as \u201CMothers make decisions in spite of what the medical professionals might say.\u201D when they talk about a diagnosis around Down syndrome. That language is the discriminatory language which then gets applied in our community against those mothers and those fathers who do have children who are Down syndrome and who pour their hearts and their souls and their lives into raising them. I just say to members in this House to be careful with the language they choose. Choosing language like \u201Cin spite of\u201D\u2014\u201Cin spite of what the doctor said\u201D, \u201Cin spite of what the scan said\u201D\u2014I find deeply offensive. I know that the family which Louisa Wall mentioned\u2014and I think that\u2019s offensive language to them as well in terms of what she says and the language that she chose when she talked about Down syndrome children and the choices that parents have to make. I implore Parliament to consider these Supplementary Order Papers, which seek to put in place provisions on the issue of not just discrimination on the basis of disability but also discrimination on the basis of sex. I know my colleague Dr Parmjeet Parmar brought an SOP on this issue, which was voted down, and I just want to acknowledge Melissa Lee for continuing the advocacy on this issue of sex selection. We know that this is an issue which is seen around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn this bill, the Minister gets up and he says, \u201CWell, we\u2019ve put a declaration\u201D\u2014and the select committee says, \u201CWe\u2019ve put a declaration\u201D\u2014\u201Cin there that Parliament doesn\u2019t see this as being something which we approve of.\u201D I say good on you. Good on Parliament for putting a declaration into this bill. Then Parliament says, \u201CAnd we\u2019re going to ask the director-general, after five years, to issue a report.\u201D Well, there\u2019s no ability under this legislation and the sections which have been put in place for the actual data to be collected. I put a Supplementary Order Paper forward when we debated this last week, whereby we would actually be able to look at that issue and actually have the data collected so the Director-General could actually be able to make an assessment as to whether this is something which is taking place in New Zealand. Otherwise, if we don\u2019t have the data collection, all we\u2019ve got is a toothless statement making a declaration\u2014more virtue signalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis Parliament\u2019s simply virtue signalling its virtues without actually being prepared to put legislation in place which says this is a practice that we will not condone and actually allowing there to be tools to ensure that it doesn\u2019t happen. That\u2019s what Melissa Lee is trying to do with her Supplementary Order Paper, and I will be supporting it because it\u2019s something which needs to be in this legislation, because we should not be condoning discrimination on the basis of the unborn child\u2019s sex. We should not be discriminating, and we shouldn\u2019t be just happy with simply making a declaration, which is what the Parliament is currently looking to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI do just want to say that this is something which the Parliament should take very seriously, because we talk a lot about discrimination, we talk a lot about these issues of equality, and we aren\u2019t prepared to take it seriously here in this bill. So I ask the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, to please tell me how, under this legislation, he will ensure that that declaration is actually given effect to, and how, under this legislation, the Director-General will actually have the information and the knowledge and the evidence to be able to issue a report to say, after five years, whether or not this is an issue which should be brought to this House\u2019s attention. Currently, those tools aren\u2019t there. I challenge the Minister in the chair to be able to take a call and to explain to the Parliament, explain to New Zealanders, how there will actually be teeth applied to this declaration which has been put into this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn my last couple of minutes, I\u2019d like to touch on the Supplementary Order Paper in the name of Joanne Hayes in relation to the amendment of the Care of Children Act. I find it deeply ironic that on one level, we\u2019ve got a situation where the legislation says that if my daughter goes to school and requires a Panadol, I have to go through a process to give my consent for a Panadol, but if my daughter had an abortion, I as her father wouldn\u2019t be told anything. Now, I can understand there may be cases where there should be a court process. I know there\u2019s been legislation and proposals brought to this House around the small number of circumstances where there may need to be a process where the parents are not involved, but I don\u2019t understand how as a Parliament we can have such a huge inconsistency between a Panadol and abortion when it comes to this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister in the chair to explain what other options were considered. Was this even considered as an issue to be addressed, or was he simply just satisfied with the status quo when it comes to this substantial issue? I know that it\u2019s an issue which many, many parents across New Zealand are very passionate about. Many people want to see the law changed in this regard, but I understand also the circumstances, and the difficult circumstances, where there may need to be some level of other process, whether that\u2019s a court process or some other tribunal which can intervene in those exceptional circumstances where there is an issue, as the Minister did, rightly, raise in his contribution. So I look forward to the Minister taking a call and answering my questions, and I do find it deeply ironic, that issue, in terms of where this bill is so inconsistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00221bb4e80fadc140ebbf2ce523a1437ebf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bb4e80fadc140ebbf2ce523a1437ebf\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to start off by thanking my colleagues who have actually spoken to and in support of my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 479 and also 478. I have actually split my earlier SOP, I think\u2014which was 459, if my memory serves me right\u2014because it actually had two issues joined together in terms of discrimination. But I have actually since separated the issue of gender discrimination and disability discrimination, so that members can actually vote on them separately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start off with the Minister Andrew Little\u2019s comments when he actually said that people who oppose this bill are, generally, opposed to abortion, and that we have a particular religious view and hence we are opposed. I find that extremely offensive. I\u2019m a woman, I\u2019m a mother, and he suggests that I can\u2019t deal with facts. The fact is we have 13,000 abortions in this country\u2014fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWhen children are raped or are victims of incest, most of us in this House would probably support the idea that she has an abortion. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anyone in this room who actually would suggest that \u201COh no, that child should not have an abortion.\u201D or that it should be made more difficult for that child to deal with that impact of having gone through the process of being raped or the incest that she\u2019s actually suffered at the hands of\u2014the example that the Minister actually gave was the father. That is apparently the very reason why the father or the parents are not supposed to have anything to do with the decision of a young child who decides to have an abortion. Parents are not supposed to actually be notified, even though they are not allowed to give Panadol or any kind of medication at school without the parents\u2019 consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier, when one of my colleagues was actually speaking\u2014I think it was Simon O\u2019Connor\u2014Louisa Wall yelled out certain things about facts: that we need to deal with facts. Yes, facts. In this country, we talk about gender discrimination, pay parity. We talk about all kinds of things that supposedly\u2014we apparently don\u2019t like discrimination, and yet in this particular bill, we discriminate. We do not protect people from deciding that they can have an abortion based on gender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little, earlier said that women are not stupid; they do not actually, all of a sudden, after 20 weeks, go to have an abortion\u2014that they actually decide that earlier. Then why does this bill not restrict abortion to earlier times of pregnancy, rather than making it open slather? There\u2019s no limitations, after 20 weeks, when a woman could not have an abortion. That is where misinformation happens. It\u2019s not us who are spurring the misinformation; it is the bill that is problematic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThe issue is that, when people discover that they\u2019re having a particular gender child, they can make a decision whether to abort or not. When a parent finds out that there is an issue with the child in utero\u2014that they might have Down syndrome, they might have spina bifida, they might have any kind of a disability\u2014it is an opportunity for that parent to make that decision to abort. What I am actually saying is that we should not allow that discrimination. I have fought discrimination all my life. As an Asian New Zealander, discrimination is rife out there against people who are of different ethnicities, and yet this bill is allowing people to discriminate on gender and disability in utero. After 20 weeks, when the sex is actually known, they should not be allowed to abort. This is ridiculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI would like to read a couple of the emails that I\u2019ve actually received from people. Chantel Mitchell says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThis is becoming more about us making sure we have perfect babies, the gender we want, the baby without a disability, etc., than merely a healthcare issue.\u201D And I totally agree with her. Another one, from Evan Clulee, who says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CAs a person with spina bifida, we literally are a dying breed. Parents now may face extra pressures, and babies diagnosed with spina bifida in utero will be at even greater risk, prevented from even beginning our lives if these proposed abortion reform laws go through.\u201D Another one, from Sorbhanya Kim, who actually says\u2014I quote\u2014\u201CWe shouldn\u2019t be allowed to kill someone weaker than ourselves because they are an inconvenience. We shouldn\u2019t be allowed to kill someone weaker than ourselves because they might have a disability. People with disabilities are just as valued as anyone else. They can live a loving and fulfilling life.\u201D And I agree with them all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI think it was Louisa Wall who actually mentioned, I think, in earlier debates that lots of members have actually talked about the right of a woman to control what happens to her body. I am a woman. I have had a child. But the DNA of a child in utero is not part of a woman\u2019s body; it is 50 percent the father\u2019s. So does the father have a say in this issue? What happens if the abortion is forced upon a woman by an abusive husband? In section\u2014I have actually folded the part\u2014182 of the Crimes Act it contains an offence of killing an unborn child and provides a prison term of up to 14 years. They were particularly concerned if a pregnant woman is abused\u2014let\u2019s say kicked\u2014and the child in utero is killed. The abuser can actually go to prison. What is the difference between an unborn child that has been kicked and dies and an unborn child of the same age that is being aborted by a woman who makes a decision to abort based on the gender or the disability of the child?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ESure, I understand, as a mother who has actually gone through the process when I was pregnant, me and my now ex-husband. When we were pregnant\u2014and it was the best thing that happened to us; we were so joyous\u2014at six weeks, before that, you go through the process with the doctor. The doctor actually says\u2014oh, apparently I was a geriatric pregnancy because I had my baby in my thirties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596f9ad30bb94482929170c5165a452c\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca24d838730e4a2ca8587d7625d6d398\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, a geriatric pregnancy! I was given an option to have an amniocentesis, and I wanted to know what kind of danger that might actually put my child in. The reason why that amnio was actually provided, or was offered to me, so easily was because, apparently, as a geriatric mother to a child, in a geriatric pregnancy, they wanted to actually make sure that I didn\u2019t have a Down syndrome child, and that I could be provided an abortion. That offer came so quick and so fast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EAs a first-time pregnant woman, I just wanted to gather the information and actually sort of read all about it and consider all options. At six weeks, I heard the heartbeat of my child. There was no way\u2014there was no way\u2014regardless of gender, regardless of disability, that I could abort a child that was growing in my body. The DNA\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9bfb4e935224a0795d56d0de0147866\u0022\u003EMarja Lubeck\u003C/span\u003E: Then don\u2019t have it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274e25da3874248c19e6968b7d34537e8\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: She says, \u201CDon\u2019t have it.\u201D Well, that\u2019s the problem: some people use it as a method of contraception, and I oppose that. The problem with this bill is that we are liberalising abortion in this country\u2014the very fact that we are allowing people, after 20 weeks of pregnancy, to abort\u2014and I want to provide some parameters, I guess, through my Supplementary Order Paper to make sure that we do not discriminate against people on the basis of gender, nor do we discriminate against people on the basis of disability. I think this bill is abhorrent. I do not support it. I hope it doesn\u2019t actually go through. But, if we have to, we want to make sure that there are some\u2014some\u2014protections in this bill. That is why I move my Supplementary Order Papers 478 and 479. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u00228435ad20e2554906ada52570b43f3f2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228435ad20e2554906ada52570b43f3f2f\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, while I accidentally throw my glasses away! I do just want to acknowledge the sense of emotion in the room and, again, just how personal and heartfelt this is for everyone engaged in this discussion, because these are deeply human discussions. And I want to also really support the calls around anti-discrimination, around getting rid of sexism in our country. That is something that I spend a lot of my time and effort involved in trying to do, as well as stamping out discrimination against people with disabilities in this country. I want to acknowledge that we have more work to do as a country to do that. I do not believe, however, that this piece of legislation is the place where we can be effective doing that work; except I will note that this piece of legislation enables us to get rid of some really discriminatory concepts and language as it refers to people with disabilities that\u2019s in the legislation at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is our chance to take off our law books the ability to have an abortion on the grounds of fetal abnormality, which is in our current legislation. This is our chance to change that. So, for people who really care about these issues\u2014which I do; the Green Party has put a huge amount of our political effort around fighting discrimination\u2014this piece of legislation in front of us today is a step forwards towards challenging discrimination on the basis of disability as well as gender. Because we know that control of women\u2019s bodies is one of the main tools that\u2019s used to oppress women, and that this legislation we have on our books now was founded on a fundamental mistrust of women. For me, one of the really telling examples of that in the debate at the time, that happened forty years ago, in the initial draft legislation then they had rape as a ground for abortion. That was taken out by members of this Parliament, during that debate, because the mostly men in the House at that time said that women would just lie and say they\u2019d been raped to access abortions. We have to start trusting women to make the right decisions for them and their families, and trust them and challenge discrimination in our society\u2014yes\u2014and I hope every single person who\u2019s raised their voice in the Chamber tonight will step into every single other initiative that we put up to challenge disablism in our society, as well as supporting this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI will note people\u2019s fears. I want to just give them something in terms of our test about is this increase\u2014changing our threshold at 20 weeks\u2014likely to increase abortions based on any fetal diagnosis. The international evidence is no\u2014that there has not been, when there\u2019s been liberalisation, an increase in the proportion of terminations that happen after that time frame. I would also say that some of the statistics that we\u2019ve been given around Iceland are really misleading and inaccurate. The information I have on that\u2014and remember, Iceland is a bit smaller than Wellington; so when you\u2019re hearing that there hasn\u2019t been, in a year, anybody born with Down syndrome, that\u2019s actually possible in a town the size of Wellington, and when you compare the Icelandic statistics with the European statistics, there is no significant statistical difference. And that is over a 10-year period across jurisdictions. So this legislation is not going to\u2014we have no evidence whatsoever\u2014make that difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ETo speak briefly to the parental notification, I\u2019ve worked with young people in youth health and I want people to know that, if you do that, young people will not go to the doctor and they will not have the conversation with their parents, which usually happens after they\u2019ve been to the doctor because they\u2019ve had the confidence to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00223ae110853dcb4887b0f593d067c4c68f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ae110853dcb4887b0f593d067c4c68f\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Before I begin, I just want to say that the disrespect that was shown to my colleague here, Melissa Lee, by Marja Lubeck really was uncalled for. She was emotive, she was just sharing from her heart, and I just felt that it was a bit disrespectful in the committee. When people have shared from their hearts, we\u2019ve just respected their views. We may have been opposite their view, but we\u2019ve just respected\u2014so I just felt that a bit of respect could have been shown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to stand up and speak to the current Minister in the chair, the Hon Willie Jackson, and hope that he\u2019ll take note, especially with the officials. When the Minister the Hon Andrew Little was making some remarks, especially in relation to the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) by Joanne Hayes\u2014SOP 463\u2014he used the scenario in regards to the fact of those who had been raped or of incest. I noticed that they often used the most extreme scenario as a way of justifying the position that they had. I want to put on record\u2014and if the Minister had read through the proposed amendments, particularly in the explanatory note on the opposite page, on page 2\u2014it was clearly highlighted by my colleague Joanne Hayes that, in circumstances where there is concern that a minor could be at risk if her parents were notified, the law already provides alternative solutions. Those solutions were in the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989; section 31 of the Care of Children Act. Those provisions are already there. So what this Act was actually speaking to\u2014and I\u2019m sure the current Minister in the chair, the Hon Willie Jackson, will acknowledge the fact\u2014is that there are circumstances, especially with our M\u0101ori and our Pacific wh\u0101nau, in which the cultural construct is actually the importance to engage with the wh\u0101nau and the family, and the importance of that. That\u2019s the reason for the intent of this SOP: that, where there are circumstances where it\u2019s quite clear that there isn\u2019t a situation of threat or of risk, have they considered that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI particularly want to say that because, actually, in one of the submissions that came through\u2014this is from the Pasifika Health Alliance\u2014it talked about the number of M\u0101ori, Pacific, and Asian births through abortion. From 1998 to 2018, M\u0101ori in particular had 76,067 aborted deaths, in comparison to all other causes of death for M\u0101ori babies\u201461,641. That is a significant amount. For Pasifika, it\u2019s 39,957. That\u2019s the reason why, in regards to this SOP, it\u2019s actually giving some due consideration. I don\u2019t believe that the example that the Minister gave was actually considerate, when it was quite clear that the member Joanne Hayes had clearly stated, in her explanatory note, there are circumstances where there are actually risk factors that are there, that they can be considered under two particular Acts which provide care and responsibility, discretion that is available to them, and I think that\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to speak about SOP 470. The Minister talked about the fact that there are already safety measures in place for the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2014that\u2019s there. I\u2019ve looked through these regulations, and the officials may like to give that information through to the Minister, who could then stand up later on tonight and be able to provide that. Because, while he said they were already there, again, I point to the Law Commission, who are quite clear: there is no enforcement mechanism that\u2019s currently in place; there\u2019s nothing there in the provision to ensure that there\u2019s an enforcement. And, again, the safety aspect of what the Minister concerned was sharing about isn\u2019t there. I\u2019ve looked through the regulations. They\u2019re very broad, they\u2019re not specific, there\u2019s nothing there in particular. If the Minister is quite clear that this is important, then what harm is there to include this Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) in the legislation? It just makes it clear, it makes it precise, that if there are issues where there is a breach of convention in regards to the practices of abortion\u2014I don\u2019t think that\u2019s too hard to ask for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to talk about SOP 479 in my colleague\u2019s name, Melissa Lee. And the reason I do so\u2014and I\u2019m hoping to take an extension to this, Mr Chair\u2014is because I am the current spokesperson for disability for the National Party. So I have a particular interest in this; I\u2019ve been engaging in the community, and I want to share some of their thoughts and their concerns that they have raised around this. Many have turned around and said, \u201CWell, there\u2019s nothing to be found here.\u201D I know that Louisa Wall has talked about different people that she\u2019s talked about, but I want to state that there have been 1,300 people with Down syndrome and families calling on the Prime Minister to not introduce abortion up to birth. That\u2019s part of the 25,000 submissions\u2014out of those submissions, 91 percent opposed this bill. This is more than just one or two people in the sector; this is a significant number of people who have shared their concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to highlight some of those concerns that they have shared with me, in particular in regards to the current proposed changes of the law. Currently, in the current law, there is a 20 week gestational time limit for disability selective abortion. The proposed law\u2014the 20 week gestational time limit for disability sex selective abortion would be removed. We\u2019re already considerate of the fact that there shall be no discrimination around sex, and particularly\u2014I\u2019m not sure\u2014around a gender. But, in this case, again, how difficult is it for us to ensure the safety\u2014but, more importantly, the concerns raised by the disability community: 1,300 signed a submission, a letter straight to the Prime Minister. Why? Because of their concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s how they highlight their concerns. People in the House have talked about facts; here are some of the facts. I know that Jan Logie talked about Finland and other places. Let\u2019s talk about a bit closer to home; let\u2019s take an example from Victoria, in Australia, where there is a similar clause allowing for abortion up to birth. There is a reliable data collection of abortions that have taken place between 20 weeks and birth, which is reported by the Council of Obstetric and Paediatric Mortality and Morbidity\u2019s annual reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225560e0d7492140abb58405df3827ab31\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s inaccurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a19082196d6451b8afb79a1ee5f2f03\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: This is from the report. The member Jan Logie can read it. This data shows that there have been 1,685 abortions of babies with disability between 20 weeks and birth since the law has changed there in 2008. These are concerns that are being raised by this community. And again, if it is, within this community, the safety and wellbeing of our community, if our disability sector are now\u2014and if parents are\u2014showing their concern, then why is it that this House and this current Government are not listening to their concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn the UK, abortion is available through to birth for disabilities, including Down syndrome, and, in February, the BBC reported that a woman had been offered an abortion at 38 weeks gestation. There is now a large movement among the disability community in the UK to get the law changed. Polling shows that a majority of people in the UK feel that disability should not be grounds for abortion at all, with only one in three people thinking it is acceptable. Our role and responsibility in this House is to ensure that the laws of this land will ensure that in this House we protect the weak and the vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EIn my time that\u2019s left, I want to just read a couple of comments, because there\u2019s nothing like actually bringing the voice of our community into this House. We know that over 2,500 oral submissions were requested\u2014only over 140. And a number of them actually shared that they would have wanted to be there to share their stories. I share a couple of these stories. Pip Smith, mum to Oscar, who has Down syndrome: \u201COscar is one of four boys, along with his other brothers, he brings much joy and love to his family and is living life to the full. His life is no less worthy and is just as beautiful as those of his brothers. Our community has repeatedly called on the Government to change the law to ensure it doesn\u2019t introduce abortion up to birth. At every stage of the process, our concerns have been ignored. The Abortion Legislation Committee made it clear in their final report, and they opted to keep this new post - 20 week provision in place in the bill so that it could be used for disability selective abortions.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81d0a8d00c34acbb00ae0049a84bdea\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, I\u2019d just like to complete my speech on SOP 479, that I was speaking to. It\u2019s in the name of Melissa Lee and, in particular, it\u2019s around clause 12, and it\u2019s focused on any disability or possible disability of the unborn child. I just want to read from the explanatory note where it\u2019s quite clear that the purpose and the intent of this SOP is in line with the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and they note this: \u201CLaws which explicitly allow for abortion on [the] grounds of impairment violate the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (Art. 4, 5, 8). Even if the condition is considered fatal, there is still a decision made on the basis of impairment.\u201D So that\u2019s the intent of this clause here and, in particular, with SOP 479. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to finish off with the words of one of our colleagues. I respect that Greg O\u2019Connor, in his speech last week, actually made these comments. There\u2019s nothing like having one of our own who has their own personal experience. He states, \u201CI\u2019m the father of an intellectually handicapped son who\u2019s now 27 years old, and what this post - 20 week legislation will mean is that for parents who do find out that they have a child who may not be \u2018normal\u2019, who [may be a child who] isn\u2019t what they had hoped the child would be, all of a sudden a whole new set of pressures are going to go on as a result of this legislation.\u201D That\u2019s at the heart of this SOP 479. It\u2019s to take consideration that there would be no discrimination on the grounds of disability. I commend this SOP and support it to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c578c778cac840968cd6a54b5556c922\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c578c778cac840968cd6a54b5556c922\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. I too want to speak to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 479 and I\u2019d like to acknowledge my colleague Melissa Lee for her advocacy for people with disabilities. I genuinely want to thank her for sharing her experience with us earlier tonight. I mean, this is an incredibly emotional discussion and some of us are sharing things that we probably haven\u2019t shared before. We need to think about what we\u2019re actually asking for, if we want this SOP to be successful, because essentially the rights of parents to choose whether or not to have a child when they know that child has a particular condition has been something that we have as a country publicly funded since 2004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EWe brought in a screening programme that tests for trisomy-21, trisomy-18, and trisomy-13. But what I\u2019ve neglected to do is actually talk about what those conditions are. And I actually think it\u2019s really important people know what we\u2019re talking about. So trisomy-13 was discovered by Dr Klaus Patau in 1960, and essentially it means that the fetus has extra genetic material. They have disrupted normal development, causing multiple and complex organ defects. Ninety percent of the children born with Patau syndrome die within the first year. They have intellectual disabilities, they have seizures, and they require surgical intervention. So our publicly funded screening programme at 14 weeks and 20 weeks provides information like this to parents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ETrisomy-18, which is Edwards syndrome, was discovered by John H Edwards in 1960. Again, babies are born small. They have a small head, they have heart defects, there are severe intellectual disabilities, and 90 to 95 percent die within the first year. I looked at a study that said the average length of life is 12\u00BD days. That does speak to Melissa Lee\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper, because she is saying that if a doctor can determine that the likely death of the child is within 28 days of birth, then that\u2019s OK. But actually, that\u2019s not what happens all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThen trisomy-21\u2014it was actually discovered by John Langdon Down in 1862 and it\u2019s an interesting condition, actually, because, people have physical and growth delays. They have mild to moderate intellectual disabilities. They have a mental age\u2014and this is just generally\u2014of a nine to 10-year-old, but they can live for 50 to 60 years. And with good education, care, and support to the parents and to those children, they can actually live amazingly good, productive lives\u201420 percent of them can go on to employment. And therein lies the distinctions, I think, with some of the groups that have been advocating to us and in the committee tonight. People with Down syndrome can live full, productive lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not the point of the testing and the screening, though. The point of the testing and the screening is to give parents information. Firstly, do they want to undergo the testing, the screening? And then, once they do know, how can we help them prepare to deliver a child that may need specialist surgical medical care? They do, necessarily, have to talk about the consideration of termination. And the other thing they have to talk about is palliative care in that newborn period, because babies may be born, but actually they\u2019re not going to live very long. And how do we help parents prepare for a life of a child with these trisomy conditions? That\u2019s the whole point of having a screening programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ESo if the people opposed to terminating children who have these trisomy conditions really want to get to the nub of the issue, what they\u2019re saying is we shouldn\u2019t have an antenatal screening programme in the first place, because fundamental to the screening programme is giving parents information so that they can make decisions that best fit with their lives. It\u2019s not about anyone judging them. It\u2019s about how we can care, support, and help them through what is an incredibly emotional time, which is what everyone has talked about. So I can\u2019t support Melissa Lee\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper. It\u2019s way too restrictive and, also, I believe that it takes away the rights of parents to choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc3bcf9e7b6240e68e5543b59ff25972\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc3bcf9e7b6240e68e5543b59ff25972\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019d, basically, like to speak to just one Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) in this discussion, but I\u2019ll preface that, if I may, with a brief discussion of a point that I think is relevant to a number of the SOPs that we\u2019ve covered this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe first is in relation to how we divide our attention as a committee of the whole House between that which is a matter of rights\u2014I\u2019d argue human rights, a matter of logic\u2014versus what it is that the general public believe in and how we should view the attitude of our fellow Kiwis to this kind of legislation; the issues that are raised particularly by the SOPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s worth noting that credible public polling conducted by Curia concluded that 90 percent of New Zealanders opposed sex-selective abortions. Now, that was the subject of an SOP in the name of Dr Parmjeet Parmar in Part 1, but I would argue that, by analogy, I would be surprised if there isn\u2019t a similar result in relation to disability selection, which is the subject of an SOP in the name of Melissa Lee relevant to Part 2, on which I have previously spoken and on which I won\u2019t dwell now. But suffice to say that, even on that basis, it is worth this committee of the whole House considering the fact that it is obvious to many outside this Chamber, if not to a majority within it, the rights and wrongs of that particular issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESimilarly, in terms of parental notification\u2014the subject of another Supplementary Order Paper, of course, tonight\u2014some 79 percent in that same poll thought that parents should be notified if their young daughter was seeking an abortion. So I place that not as a matter of argument definitively, given that it seems to me that in this House we\u2019ve got a responsibility in matters of life and death that is higher simply than taking the pulse of the nation, but it is worthwhile guidance, I think, to us as legislators: the fact that these issues appear in much clearer view to many outside this place than to those within, it seems, at times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI do want to speak to the Supplementary Order Paper in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson; it\u2019s number 483. I think she would agree with my characterisation of it as in the freedom of conscience space, also sometimes known as conscientious objection. Of course, the word \u201Cconscience\u201D literally means \u201Cwith knowledge\u201D, and, in this case, it seems to me appropriate that a person be allowed to exercise their freedom in a way that reflects their knowledge and understanding of what the act of abortion does entail. From that point of view, it\u2019s not a matter of what a person can do or will do; it\u2019s a matter of what they are prepared to do, in a sense\u2014in the rawest sense\u2014what they may or may not do according to their conscience. If our attitude in this Parliament remains, as it has been historically, that matters of conscience are practically irreducible, that means that we have to be pretty determined in our consideration of attempts to water that down or erode that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo it is that, in Supplementary Order Paper 483, Ms Dyson proposes a regime where someone who is exercising a conscientious freedom not to perform an abortion service would, nevertheless, be required to, basically, undertake research and advice about how the person seeking the abortion services should go about getting that. That seems to me a step too far. I would argue that the first stage, essentially, in the process should activate\u2014namely, that the person would advise the seeker of the abortion services that they do have a conscientious objection, and be allowed to leave it at that, and to walk away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da01832e23db493288d2025b4c332e12\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just not sure what the SOP number it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd50ef67fc4d4c8480c5dc5f630300cc\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary Order Paper 483, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269716484a5204c99ba3f3019a3084a25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47b36b327894aca94f55c7ee20d7d56\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Remains 483, thank you. So that\u2019s clause 14. I should actually make it clear to those who are following along that we\u2019re talking about amendments to the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo it would be the case that someone who\u2019s exercised their freedom of conscience would be required to make calculations not only, most obviously and easily, about physical distance between a provider who was prepared to conduct the services but also take into account considerations such as the date and time of the original request, the operating hours of the provider of the service that was requested, and so forth. That\u2019s a burden that I don\u2019t think it\u2019s fair to place on a person who wishes to exercise their freedom of conscience, does so in good faith, advises accordingly, and then is required to take extra further active steps against their conscience; that seems to me too far. I will be voting against that Supplementary Order Paper\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002223fe1a2070134dc59aa052c28e6a8641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223fe1a2070134dc59aa052c28e6a8641\u0022\u003EHon RUTH DYSON (Labour\u2014Port Hills):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to follow on from Chris Penk and speak in support of my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 483. But before I do, I want to point out to Mr Penk some quite important facts that he omitted to bring into his reign of consideration, and that is that this is not about an abortion service; this is about provision of emergency contraception, which avoids a pregnancy, and, if it\u2019s an unwanted pregnancy, it will avoid an abortion. That\u2019s what this SOP is about. So it\u2019s about reducing unwanted pregnancies so that the option of having an abortion is not necessary for the woman involved; so that\u2019s what this is about. When we were debating Part 1, members may recall a very similar, in fact identical, SOP that I put up to Part 1, which changed the contraception, sterilisation, and abortion legislation. This does exactly the same thing, but in the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThis matter wasn\u2019t raised at the select committee, and I was quite surprised because we did spend a lot of time on details at the select committee. The reason that it wasn\u2019t obvious to us is because, I guess, we had our faith that the system would work until it was pointed out, after we reported back, that a woman could go to a doctor or a chemist in Kait\u0101ia under the current bill and say, \u201CI\u2019ve got a prescription here for emergency contraception. I need to take it within the next 48 hours for it to be effective.\u201D and the chemist might say, \u201CNo, I\u2019m not dispensing it. I\u2019m a conscientious objector.\u201D Under the current bill, as it\u2019s drafted, they would just have to tell them the name of somebody who would, and it could be in Invercargill. That woman would be pregnant by the time she got to Invercargill. So this is trying to avoid something that we don\u2019t want to happen and clearly the woman doesn\u2019t want to happen. That\u2019s why I support the change in this. It\u2019s to make the legislation that\u2019s outlined in Part 1 line up with the legislation that\u2019s outlined in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EIn the brief remaining time that I\u2019ve got, I just want to further recommend that members try and stick to facts in this debate. It\u2019s an important debate. It\u2019s a very sensitive one. It is very contentious. I think that it better suits this sort of debate if facts are presented rather than things that somebody might have read on the internet, had emailed to them, or just made it up. One of the examples I\u2019ve heard during this debate, and certainly in correspondence, is the fact that this will almost require\u2014it just puts such a lot of pressure on parents of a child with Down syndrome to end that pregnancy. We heard exactly the opposite from all the practitioners in this area. We heard from parents who had been through this situation about how supported they felt, how well-informed they felt, and how they had zero pressure to make a decision other than what was right for their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard in this debate that there are zero children born with Down syndrome in Iceland. That is just not true. There have been two years in the last 50 years when that has been true: 1989 and 2009. The total population of Iceland is 335,000 people. It\u2019s a very small place. Their birth rate of children with Down syndrome is within a margin of error different than the birth rate of children with Down syndrome in the EU. There is no truth to the fact that their abortion laws mean that there are no children with Down syndrome born. Iceland is not New Zealand. We have a different culture. We have different value sets. We have different beliefs. And it is my view that this will not move parents to terminate a pregnancy when they wouldn\u2019t in the current situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EThe time pressures that Melissa Lee\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP)\u2014and I do admire the value behind it\u2014puts on parents, I think, would make for very bad outcomes. They would be pressured into making a decision while it was still theirs, before that decision is taken out of their hands, and that could lead to bad decision-making. I want those parents to be well supported, to be well-informed, and to make the choice that\u2019s best for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e29441af360f49e9855e4e0fad571db5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e29441af360f49e9855e4e0fad571db5\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually wasn\u2019t going to take a call but I thought I\u2019d have to respond to the member who\u2019s taken her seat, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I\u2019d encourage her to go and look up the statistics of Iceland for those who get testing for Down syndrome, not just those who are born without testing. Secondly, she noted that her Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) came about because, well, it hadn\u2019t been raised in the select committee. So I just sort of posit the argument, rhetorically if you will, that had the committee decided, which she chaired by the way, to actually hear from people who wanted to come in and speak, bar the 120 that they chose, then they might have actually got a broader understanding and would\u2019ve done their job more fully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut also in the aspect of facts, and, you know, I\u2019m a great believer in facts as well\u2014very useful. She talked about the emergency contraceptive pill (ECP). I just need to make it really clear for the committee that actually a person can get the ECP without a prescription. The member who took her seat was very quick to have a go at one of my colleagues about the whole having to go to a doctor; you actually don\u2019t. That\u2019s what they call a medical fact. It\u2019s what they call truth. So I just thought I\u2019d just put that out there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also might just want to point out this whole\u2014again, it\u2019s these faux straw arguments which are put up that the doctor in Kait\u0101ia, or arguably, again, it\u2019s sort of a moot point around the ECP because you don\u2019t need to go and spend $20, $40, or $60 with the doctor; you can just go to the pharmacy. But for the sake of fact and truth for Ruth Dyson, she\u2019ll find that if you went to the pharmacy in Kait\u0101ia and the pharmacist chose to send you to Invercargill, you\u2019d be able to take said pharmacist against the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act and, basically, put them in their place, because that\u2019s right against what they are meant to do as a competent person. In other words, the pharmacist who has a conscience problem and sends them to Invercargill from Kait\u0101ia is already doing the wrong thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut now we step into the whole philosophical problem with Supplementary Order Paper 483, because I believe those who are for this legislation are all about pro-choice. If you accept that, then it\u2019s funny that there\u2019s to be no choice for the doctor or the pharmacist to exercise their conscience right. The counter argument that often comes up: \u201COh, it\u2019s power dynamics. The person who\u2019s asking for the ECP\u201D\u2014the emergency contraceptive pill in this case\u2014\u201Cthey might feel awkward or unsure.\u201D If that\u2019s the case\u2014if the person\u2019s not competent enough to go to the next pharmacy to have a discussion\u2014then that probably begins to, and should, raise questions in members\u2019 minds as to just how competent, calm, and rational that person is in making the decision. But, as I said, philosophically, the key point for the pro-choice is they\u2019re pro-choice for ECP, they\u2019re pro-choice for abortion, but, boy, there\u2019s to be no choice for doctors, nurses, and others around these topics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EFinally, Simeon Brown: what a great SOP 480; it\u2019s all about data. Not the sexiest topic. I could probably try to up the rhetoric and make statistics sound sexy, but I won\u2019t. The great thing about statistics is to help us understand what\u2019s going on. SOP 480 is, effectively, making changes to Schedule 2. When anyone looks at Schedule 2, the information that the Director-General of Health has to collect is interesting, it\u2019s useful, but just to show why we need SOP 480\u2014and Simeon Brown himself might choose to talk to it\u2014is particularly, but not exclusively, around sex selection. So, as I say, we\u2019ve got the wet bus ticket approach that we\u2019ve said in the bill: it\u2019s not a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAt the moment, there is no direction in this legislation for data on the sex of a child to be collected. So what difference does that make? Well, if in two, three, five, 10 years we\u2019re going to mount an argument, or otherwise, that sex selection is happening, without the info being collected we\u2019re going to have the pro-abortion side say, \u201CWell, there\u2019s no evidence. There\u2019s no evidence of sex selection.\u201D Well, of course that\u2019s what they\u2019re going to say, because we haven\u2019t collected the data. So it\u2019s pretty simple. Again, the challenge to those who vote for this legislation is, perhaps, let this through, because I\u2019m sure those people can be courageous enough to not be afraid of the data. Find out, as Simeon Brown\u2019s SOP is doing, how many previous live births and how many previous abortions. I would say that the sex of the child should be noted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThis is an obligation, importantly, on the doctor or the health practitioner; this is not the woman involved. We\u2019re not putting stress on her, but if we are going to accurately report, particularly on sex selection, then we need to have that information, otherwise it makes a mockery of any discussion of what\u2019s occurring. So I implore members to vote for SOP 480.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6c2ae9c44cd48d19afb5226b65bfbec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6c2ae9c44cd48d19afb5226b65bfbec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I did let the member go because he had been seeking the call for a while but, actually, that\u2019s Schedule 1, which is part of Part 1, and we\u2019re on Part 2, Schedule 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef86298cc45847ff8c002c2f5e1d2b8b\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s a new\u2014is it a new Schedule 2, though, or is that still because it falls in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daa03836724b4fb1a227c4b06de8403d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b229639b624f87b32e495423385755\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, then I do apologise. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e63fdf9719d46e8b5d5ef8a5fb304b0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00225ab5d2c37ff84fed979596bf51a2b93c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ab5d2c37ff84fed979596bf51a2b93c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I add my support to the two Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in the name of Melissa Lee, could I just note that this is the first time I\u2019ve spoken in this debate, and I want to thank all members, because I believe it\u2019s been a very respectful debate. This is a very emotional and challenging issue for all of us, and I\u2019m delighted that we haven\u2019t had too much acrimony. Of course it\u2019s been highly charged, that\u2019s right, but I am glad that it\u2019s been a respectful debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAlthough I haven\u2019t taken a call, I\u2019ve been listening carefully to what has been said by all members, and I want to thank them for those very thoughtful contributions. One of the reasons why I haven\u2019t sought the call before now is I do believe that this is one issue where the woman\u2019s voice should be heard first and foremost. It doesn\u2019t mean that men don\u2019t have a valid opinion\u2014of course we do\u2014but until such time as men can understand the difficulty of an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy, and agonising over a decision that might need to be made, particularly if there\u2019s an abnormality in the pregnancy, we do need to respect the fact that our world view is very different, and I do, therefore, respect the views, particularly, of women in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut I want to turn now to the two SOPs in the name of Melissa Lee. I\u2019m the father of two wonderful daughters. They are talented, they are funny, they\u2019re intelligent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa9d60884c184cb8b90dbee78ffd2f33\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re biased!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec701b8926894c43a0131075b93bea16\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they\u2019re caring, they\u2019re motivated, and yes, Ms Dyson, I am biased, but they are the best. I remember so vividly, even though it\u2019s quite a few years ago now, the utter delight, the joy of the night that my first daughter was born. I was the happiest father in the world. Nothing could take away from my absolute pleasure, my joy that evening. Then, just 17 months later, our second daughter was born. I\u2019m going to confess that just for a moment\u2014because I think all men probably do want to have a son\u2014there was a moment of disappointment that I\u2019d had another daughter. Well, I apologise to my second daughter because she is the most beautiful young woman and I love her dearly, and almost within a few minutes, once I\u2019d adjusted to the fact that I was now the father of two daughters, I realised how lucky I was and she has given me nothing but pleasure and pride and joy, and my wife, since then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I mention this, Madam Chair, because I think it\u2019s relevant. I can see you\u2019re telling me to focus on the bill. We are facing the possibility of replicating a situation that we know exists in some countries around the world where sex selection is a reason for an abortion. And while I would never have contemplated that for a moment, I think it is horrific to even contemplate the circumstance where such an abomination could be contemplated. We have to be mindful of the fact that, if we have such liberal amendments to our law as seem to be being proposed under this particular measure, that could be the outcome. So I strongly endorse Ms Lee\u2019s SOP. We must ensure that sex selection should never be contemplated as a reason or be made permissible as a reason for an abortion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe second one, of course, that she is dealing with is the matter of disabilities. One of the great privileges of being a member of Parliament is the opportunity we have to meet with members of the disabled community\u2014and there are so many different types of disability\u2014in our electorates and around the country. Without exception, I have found them the most admirable, impressive, lovely people. I am motivated to speak tonight because so many of them have contacted us, as members of Parliament, urging us, pleading with us to support Melissa\u2019s amendment and to resist any possibility that we would liberalise our abortion laws in this country so as to make it more likely that those who are going to be born disabled should be aborted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI recognise that there are some tragic circumstances where an abortion is often the right outcome, and I say that because we don\u2019t want to imperil the life of the mother. I also recognise that for some people, facing the challenge of raising a disabled child is incredibly difficult, and I don\u2019t in any way undermine that. I have nothing but admiration for those who are raising disabled children, but they are beautiful people. They are equal people. As a Christian, I believe that they are, as my children are, a gift from God. I want to do everything I can to speak up for them, to protect them, to resist any move in this bill that might threaten them, because we\u2019ve seen what happens, particularly in Nazi Germany, when that can happen. We must never allow that to happen here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002230d6b5c63949477cbac5de6adfdd99b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230d6b5c63949477cbac5de6adfdd99b6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to respond to some of the points that have been made both before the dinner break and since, and I particularly want to talk about the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in Melissa Lee\u2019s name, and also that in the name of Alfred Ngaro. Just on the issue about the concerns that have been expressed about discrimination, in particular in relation to the possibility that a pregnancy or a fetus that may lead to profound disability might be the subject of a decision by a parent to abort. Then there\u2019s also the other discrimination, which is sex discrimination, which has been explicitly provided for in the bill in the report back from the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo, just on the issue of sex selection, there is a very clear statement in the bill that the select committee has put together that says that this is not tolerated in New Zealand. That is important when you consider the medical practitioners\u2019 and the health practitioners\u2019 professional and moral obligations when they\u2019re dealing with the woman in front of them to make sure that the practitioner fulfils their professional obligations, which will include ensuring that, to the extent they discern that the decision is being made on the sex discrimination grounds, that does not happen. The bill is drafted very clearly about the grounds upon which a health practitioner must determine the issue when consulting with a woman about an abortion\u2014certainly post - 20 weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn the issue of broader disabled discrimination, one of the problems with Melissa Lee\u2019s SOP 479 and the amendment that she\u2019s proposing in that SOP is the fact that the medical practitioner would be required to, effectively, get into the mind of the woman to try to determine whether or not the decision she is making, or what she is consulting that medical practitioner on, is a ground of discrimination. So that\u2019s one thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThen, because it is a quite broadly drafted provision that refers to all the grounds of discrimination under the Human Rights Act, which include, for example, family status\u2014which means that if a young woman who is pregnant because of an act of incest wants to abort that pregnancy and that is disclosed to the health practitioner, under Melissa Lee\u2019s SOP, the health practitioner would have to determine if that is an act of discrimination on the grounds of family status. That abortion, simply on the grounds that the pregnancy is the product of incest, would be discriminatory on the grounds of family status. Now, I don\u2019t think Melissa Lee, because of the concerns she\u2019s expressed about discrimination, would want that, but that is what her provision would allow. That is why I am opposed to it. In relation to the current right under the Care of Children Act for a young woman below the age of consent to, having consulted a medical practitioner, make a decision about an abortion and to repeal that under Alfred Ngaro\u2019s SOP\u2014I don\u2019t accept that, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve spoken a bit about this before. One of the other things that the current law ensures is that that young woman is not prevailed upon by somebody else to make a decision to have an abortion when she might not want to or, conversely, to not have an abortion where she would otherwise wish to not continue the pregnancy. That provision has been around for some considerable period of time, and, in fact, it\u2019s based on the recommendations of the royal commission of inquiry from 1977 that was about protecting the integrity of the decision of that young woman. There will be situations where a young woman is in a situation where she does not wish to disclose to her parents because of issues of her own personal safety or family relationships, and she should not be put in a position where there is a mandatory obligation to disclose when that would put her at risk. I don\u2019t accept that, and I think that that is wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis issue was also the subject of a petition in 2014 that was considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee, and they did not recommend changing the current law. So, as recently as 2014, Parliament has considered this issue and said that we do not want to change the current rights of a young person below the, otherwise, age of consent for sexual activity that is there at the moment. For those reasons, I reject both of those SOPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022140ed85c98804a7a9cb95c3cb8c1db98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022140ed85c98804a7a9cb95c3cb8c1db98\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u0022c742adc6cba244f4b2d4c4cbf081c40b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c742adc6cba244f4b2d4c4cbf081c40b\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier, I spoke on my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), and it was a rather emotional speech and I\u2019d like to thank some members who have sent me lovely messages. Although we disagree in this Chamber and we may take different positions, we actually support each other; so thank you. We have been rather respectful, as the Hon Tim Macindoe said earlier. I\u2019d like to, once again, thank the gentleman behind me, Mr Tim Macindoe, for supporting my Supplementary Order Papers 478 and 479, and, hopefully, there will be many more members in this Chamber who will vote for my SOPs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier, I spoke on the disability area of Supplementary Order Paper 479 a little bit more than on the other; so I\u2019d like to focus more on the gender or sex discrimination in this part. But before I get to that, I just want to quote an email that I got from Krystal Kendon, and it says, \u201CIt creates less room for empathy, compassion, understanding, and community support for those that may look, act, or have different needs to the rest of us. The issue that needs to be addressed is how can we better support, equip, and empower those mothers and families to raise their children with disability instead of filling them with fear and providing a seemingly\u2014yet deceptive\u2014easy way out.\u201D I just want to quote that for the part on the disability issue that I spoke about earlier, on Supplementary Order Paper 479. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThere have been many people who have talked about the gender issue, and I think, previously, the Minister of Justice has also talked about the potential that, in this legislation, we have made it very clear, apparently, that we do not tolerate gender selection in New Zealand, and yet it is not part of the bill. We do not make it illegal for people to decide to have abortions based on gender selection. I think the Minister had also talked earlier about the very fact that he did not want people to ethnically profile if we have my SOP adopted. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister: there is some ethnic profiling already happening in the health sector. Some ethnic communities are predisposed to certain diseases, so they actually look at that. Perhaps it is the Asian community who are predisposed to certain diseases, or the Pacific community. People are already aware of some things that are already happening; so I do not think that ethnic profiling per se is actually a negative thing, because they can prepare to provide better health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut, in terms of gender selection, the reason why I oppose this, I guess, is that I am an Oriental person and I know for a fact that, in some of our communities, people abort purely based on gender selection. For example, in China, there was a Government policy that allowed only one child per family, which meant the parents had to decide which gender they wanted when they got pregnant. So for the purposes of them wanting to secure their superannuation\u2014so their children could look after them when they were older and they were aged\u2014they wanted a boy child, because boy children were deemed to be the ones who would provide for their elderly parents, and that is the reason why they chose one gender. They wanted boy children; so when they got pregnant with a girl child, they aborted them. Now, it is no longer the policy of the Chinese Government, but 30 million Chinese men do not have wives because they cannot find a partner, because the parents aborted female children when they were deciding which gender they wanted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not suggesting that that would happen in New Zealand, but the thing is that the very fact that parents chose, often later in the pregnancy when they find out what gender, what sex, their child is\u2014I think it is actually wrong for them to decide to have an abortion because they want children by design. I mean, the Prime Minister herself has actually said that this is a kind country and this is a country that cares about the most vulnerable. When we are allowing people to abort babies based on their gender or because of the disabilities that they have, I am not so sure what kind of message we are sending to the world. We are no longer the kind country that the Prime Minister seems to be very proud of\u2014we\u2019re not. This cannot happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022607f485f0d614c83b773c32a6f8200ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022607f485f0d614c83b773c32a6f8200ab\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I\u2019ll try and keep this as a brief contribution. But I did want to address the issue of parental notification and the requirement for that, because somebody raised it with me over the dinner break. I really understand from a parent\u2019s perspective, and when you\u2019ve got a great relationship with your kid and you love your kid, the thought about your child being in distress and going to access healthcare and, potentially, having an abortion without telling you is a really distressing concept. But I want to reassure those members that that is part of the reason why\u2014to protect that relationship and the wellbeing of a kid is one of the reasons we should not change the law to require parental notification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThe research overseas tells us really clearly that most young people do tell a parent. Of those who are 14 or 15, it\u2019s between 74 and 90 percent of them who tell at least one parent, and for most of those who don\u2019t, it\u2019s because there is a risk. The research also backs up what has been my experience of working in youth health. There are a lot of young women who would come in to the centre\u2014and it was a confidential centre\u2014and discuss and get a pregnancy test on the basis that they knew it was confidential. They would not have come through the door if it was not. They didn\u2019t know how to have the conversation with their parents, who they really respected. They didn\u2019t want their parents\u2019 view of them to be changed. It was only through the consultation with the doctor that they had learnt how they could have that conversation to be able to tell their parents. Unless we protect their confidentiality, those young women\u2014history tells us, research tells us, experience tells us\u2014are not going to tell their parents, and they\u2019re going to take it into their own hands, and lives will be lost. So this parental notification, it feels counterintuitive, but it\u2019s the best way to actually find out if your kid needs that help at that time, and to protect your relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to speak to some of the other points that have been raised around disability, and also echo the points that were made by the Hon Ruth Dyson, as well as the Minister of Justice previously, in particular. I also just point to the trouble of having the definition in here which is being suggested, because at the moment this is not in the legislation. We are not putting anything to do with the fetus as grounds for abortion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard some evidence that liberalisation in Victoria led to an increase in post - 20 weeks. That was reported, that fact, but the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology fact-checked that, and it is not the reality. What happened was after their law was liberalised in 2008, for five years there was an increase, but after that time it has gone down below pre-liberalisation levels. So actually, there has not been an increase at all. In fact, there has been a decrease.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EPeople also need to remember that when you\u2019re looking at the grounds and what\u2019s recorded as the grounds, we know with our legislation the reasons that are recorded match the legislation. They don\u2019t match the reality. In New Zealand, almost all of the grounds, the majority of grounds are on mental health reasons because that\u2019s the legislative vehicle to be able to access a termination. That\u2019s not the reality. We know, and we\u2019ve heard from women again and again, that they are feeling as if they have to lie to be able to access those essential abortion care services. So do be very careful when you\u2019re reading data that shows a change in the reasons after liberalisation, because it probably just reflects a change in the legislation, not the reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI think this is important to note, because there is misinformation out there. I want people to know that we\u2019ve looked at the data that people are raising as concerns and we\u2019ve checked it and it doesn\u2019t hold up. We would not be supporting legislation if we had any evidence whatsoever that it would have an impact against people with disabilities or girls and the status of women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u002205834c2b00f946e1b9dd83c42faa006d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205834c2b00f946e1b9dd83c42faa006d\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00228abed4de2510489994c6b07e091a5372\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228abed4de2510489994c6b07e091a5372\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to take a second call on the Abortion Legislation Bill. I just want to respond to a couple of those comments which were made by my colleague Jan Logie, where she was discussing the issue around the experience in Victoria in relation to the collection of evidence around\u2014whether it\u2019s late-term abortions, sex selection abortion, disability. She referenced different studies, and this study said this, and this study said that. I think that points to the need to actually be collecting the information and actually having the Director-General of Health having the role to collect adequate, proper information so that it can actually be measured appropriately. So I\u2019d just like to respond to that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d now like to discuss Supplementary Order Paper 470, in the name of my colleague the Hon Alfred Ngaro. He is making what I think is something which this committee needs to take very serious consideration about, which is putting in place a commissioner to investigate breaches of a health practitioner in relation to the provision of abortion services if the action is, or appears to be, to the commissioner, in breach of the provisions of the Contraception, Sterilisation, and Abortion Act or the Crimes Act 1961.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to ask the Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little, to please give the committee some assurances under the legislation as to what actually takes place if there are breaches in this legislation. He might talk about what the responsibilities are under the Health and Disability Commissioner, but I\u2019d like to also ask him in terms of what actual teeth there may be in the legislation to ensure that the provisions of this Act which has been put in place are actually being followed. Because I think that\u2019s something which this committee does need to take very seriously, and something which needs to be explained here so that members of Parliament actually have that information here before we vote on this Supplementary Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn my view, I think having a commissioner who can specifically investigate these breaches, who can specifically look at whether the legislation is being followed, is something which should be put there in place to monitor it. I think that goes alongside the previous point, which is around the collection of information. There actually needs to be, in this legislation, the bodies with the appropriate ability to make these decisions and to be able to ensure that the legislation is being followed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo, on a final point, I do just want to say that I think there have been a number of claims made by members on the other side about misinformation and facts being misinterpreted, but I do want to point out once more that the Abortion Legislation Committee listened to only 160 of the submitters. The people who ran the process and who voted to shut people out from having their voices heard meant that there was not the ability for New Zealanders\u2014thousands of New Zealanders who wished to be heard\u2014to be able to come and actually put their evidence on the table, and for that evidence to be taken into consideration in this process. I think that\u2019s something which we as a committee and as a Parliament, as we now come to vote shortly on some of these Supplementary Order Papers, are missing out on\u2014that experience and the valuable insights that New Zealanders brought and wished to bring to this Parliament through this process. So I thank you for the contribution, and I look forward to hearing an answer from the Minister to my questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00225cd1ebbdd84048a5b94b05b2a8592655\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cd1ebbdd84048a5b94b05b2a8592655\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m obliged to have the opportunity to respond to Simeon Brown in relation to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 470.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ECan I just, before I embark on a direct response to his question that he poses\u2014and, really, in response to, actually, an earlier comment by Alfred Ngaro, which is when Alfred Ngaro quoted from the Law Commission\u2019s report. The Law Commission was very clear about specifying, as an alternative, that the Parliament could consider setting up a separate, stand-alone kind of regulatory or disciplinary body or, as they said in paragraph 6.78 on page 118 of their report, \u201CAn alternative to creating a new regulatory offence would be to rely on the existing health practitioner disciplinary regime to address any failures by health practitioners to comply with the statutory requirements \u2026 The same consequences would then apply to health practitioners who fail to comply with abortion law as for other kinds of professional misconduct \u2026 The current grounds for disciplining health practitioners already appear broad enough to capture situations where a practitioner fails to apply the statutory test for abortion. A practitioner may be disciplined for an act or omission that amounts to negligence or is likely to bring discredit to the profession.\u201D So the regime, at the moment, doesn\u2019t just deal with strict legal issues; it deals with the professional and, you might say, ethical issues as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo, to answer specifically Simeon Brown\u2019s question, \u201CWhat is the Health and Disability Commissioner\u2019s role or right?\u201D, it is, having investigated, to order a number of possible remedies\u2014one is an apology to a person who has been harmed in the provision of medical services; the other is to refer the matter to the director of proceedings. So that\u2019s the director of proceedings who looks after provisions under the Human Rights Act and, indeed, under the Health Disciplinary\u2014I\u2019m going to get the term right in a minute\u2014the Health Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal, or to refer to the relevant professional body. So it could be to the Medical Association; it could be to the college of \u201Cwhatever\u201D for that professional body. So all of those provisions are there. That regime is there now that Alfred Ngaro\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 470 would otherwise set out\u2014and if we adopt that SOP, we\u2019d be replicating what is already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhat can the Health Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal do? They can do a number of things. In terms of penalties, they can cancel or suspend registration. They can impose conditions on practice. They can censure the practitioner or impose a fine. So there is a full range of responses there that the Health and Disability Commissioner can trigger, having investigated somebody who has been mistreated or poorly treated or let down by an abortion service provider. So I hope that answers the question for Mr Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022767d92744b8b4d5d9b4f53db576917d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022767d92744b8b4d5d9b4f53db576917d2\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224cc227013a2c4fa187d6c8b725209981\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00224ed98a44a2ef4e808864a5536462372b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ed98a44a2ef4e808864a5536462372b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Jan Logie\u2019s amendment to clause 11 set out on Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 325 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee in relation to this SOP in Part 1. Jan Logie\u2019s amendment to clause 11 in relation to section 182(1), set out on SOP 326, is out of order as being outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 326 in the name of Jan Logie to new section 182(2) in clause 11 and clause 12 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 478 in the name of Melissa Lee to Part 2 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8eb8ea3d34b414eb9f65325320c0502\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 50\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 70\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000538\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 479 in the name of Melissa Lee to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223dab19cbfbf44d56ba5b2a465c2ddd2d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000539\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 483 in the name of the Hon Ruth Dyson to clause 14 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f505ebfef4e1477891bc5b187c9a8ccb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000540\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 470 in the name of the Hon Alfred Ngaro to insert new clauses 16A and 16B be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022facc1cfd853f43c29c86f654a4789e98\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 59\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 60\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000541\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 463 in the name of Joanne Hayes to insert new subpart 3A be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022591d62b9509c4f2e99bb470300e2b85a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams \u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f1491e5f42234049a26d9fe62ab91994\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 41\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221bd5efead0864a01ae44f1118d75a924\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000543\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 480 in the name of Simeon Brown to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b0925cd244e44c2da37f0ec1520c5ebd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 45\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000544\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000545\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286ed792be8924070a8617162515579ef\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca9d4844a03a4effb7150c8e5df85e5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca9d4844a03a4effb7150c8e5df85e5d\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I don\u2019t intend to take a very long call. I just want to reiterate the number of reasons why New Zealand First is tabling a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) which is requesting a referendum on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to ask a couple of genuine questions, and we\u2019ll see if they can get answered. Because one of the things that I\u2019ve actually noticed tonight and through the day, as I have been in throughout the entire debate today, is that there\u2019s been two quite distinct angles of debate on the same issue. First of all has been, and I think the Minister has said it, the bill itself is not about whether someone is pro-abortion or pro-life, or whether it\u2019s based on someone\u2019s feelings or points of view on whether abortion is correct or not; this is a piece of legislation that is taking something out of the Crimes Act. But then I hear some suggestions from some other members that this is a very contentious bill or topic, very personal, and very sensitive issue. They let me hear some stories, some personal stories, about their families, their children, and their relatives that give them the ability to form their view on their conscious view and conscience on this issue. So on the one hand we have just a bill that is about taking something out of the Crimes Act and then we\u2019ve got something quite different, which is based on personal beliefs, personal moral stances, and personal experiences. The question is, that I have for this committee, if it isn\u2019t about being pro- or anti-abortion then why isn\u2019t this a party vote? Why is this a personal vote?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had questions from some members that say, \u201CWhy is this a referendum? Why are some people asking for this to be a referendum?\u201D Well, the only question that needs to be answered, really, is the fact of why is this a personal vote to begin with? It\u2019s a personal vote because every single individual in this Chamber has a personal point of view on it; whether that be a personal belief system, whether it be a personal family history or personal experience, but it\u2019s all formed on personal life experience and moral compass, in some aspects, and belief system, in some aspects. Then you\u2019ve got some people who are ignoring that altogether and having a look at this as purely something that needs to come out of the Crimes Act, and that\u2019s their argument. Now, whether either side is right or wrong, that\u2019s not what I\u2019m up here talking about. What I\u2019m up here and talking about is the fact that this is a personal vote, and this House demanded it be a personal vote, and why? Why not a party vote? That\u2019s the first question that I\u2019ve got to ask.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe second point that I want to make is that because it\u2019s a personal vote it is an absolute admission by this House that it comes down to the personal individual and the personal individual conscience. What we see here in the last few stages of this bill are people standing up and giving their personal point of view and then suggesting that their personal point of view is worth more or less than any other personal point of view of anyone outside of this House. That\u2019s something that New Zealand First disagrees with. We believe that every person and every individual in this country should have a voice on this issue, that their point of view, their personal history, their belief system, their moral compass, or whatever you want to call it, is just as valuable as ours. We have no moral mandate to decide for them. That\u2019s why New Zealand First has had a consistent principle for every conscience vote and every conscience issue that this should go to the people. Just like we have two already this year on the marijuana debate and on euthanasia, New Zealand First stands firm on that principle\u2014that\u2019s why we\u2019re putting forward this SOP. We believe that people of New Zealand deserve a voice in this debate. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u00228e2807eb0a994b9a91c271ed9d453c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e2807eb0a994b9a91c271ed9d453c7f\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E I want to speak on Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 292, and Darroch Ball has been speaking on this. Now, he\u2019s often made passionate, purposeful speeches in this House, and I\u2019ve heard him speak about this, and just as he\u2019s made his point of view in regards to the personal vote\u2014well, these are personal votes. Why? Because they\u2019re conscience votes. But I want to remind the member of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo the member needs to remember that even though it is a conscience\u2014and in this case this is a Government bill, by the way. This is a Government bill; you are part of that Government. You are part of that coalition Government. You cannot resile from that. So as a coalition member of that Government, you are part of this process. This is not a member\u2019s bill or a private member\u2019s bill that\u2019s being introduced: this is a Government bill. I want to go on the record in stating that to Mr Ball as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI want to also state to him this: that he\u2019s made his passionate plea. He\u2019s talked about principle in the House. That the view of this particular issue\u2014and it\u2019s a moral and a conscience issue in regards to abortion and the reformation of this Abortion Legislation Bill\u2014is that it should be the voice of the people. Well, Mr Darroch Ball, you need to remember that there was a submission process: 25,000 submitted\u2014that is substantive. Just like you when you quoted the euthanasia bill, End of Life Choice Bill: 39,000\u2014that is substantive. Out of that, 91.6 percent voted no. Now, how much of that is not a voice of the community and of the people? That is significant. Now, if that\u2019s not enough to give you an indication as to how you should be directing your votes\u2014on behalf of the party, by the way\u2014then that to me lacks your responsibility in this House on what you have voted. You need to be part of the process. You\u2019ve seen the submissions: over 25,000 directly telling us what they should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo the fact is that you\u2019ve said that this referendum is part of your SOP. New Zealand First stands on that. So here\u2019s the challenge I\u2019m going to put to you: if your SOP is not voted on, you\u2019ve block voted to vote for this SOP, will you block vote as a party, on principle\u2014that you\u2019ve come on in the House time and time again\u2014will you block vote the other way then? If you do not get your SOP around the referendum, will you do the same? You\u2019ve stood in this House and you\u2019ve declared: \u201CLet the people have their voice; let the people have their say.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ELet me just say, this is not just a small amendment that you\u2019re making; this SOP is quite substantive. Clause 2 in here states: \u201C(1)(a) means of a referendum held on [a] polling day \u2026 (b) includes any fresh referendum required to be held if the High Court, on a petition, declares the referendum under paragraph (a) to be void.\u201D You\u2019ve made it very specific and very clear in your explanatory note: \u201CIf the majority of electors voting at a referendum do not agree that the Bill should come into force, this Bill [will be] repealed.\u201D You\u2019ve been very specific, you\u2019ve been very detailed, so my challenge to you, Mr Darroch Ball and to New Zealand First: if you\u2019re going to stand on principle, then be principled the other way. If the SOP does not come through in your direction, then vote against the bill. Why? Because that\u2019s the principle that you\u2019ve spoken in this House on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EYou\u2019re telling the public, you\u2019re telling the nation, and you\u2019re even telling your own supporters that that\u2019s what you\u2019re voting for. So I\u2019m going to be very specific in my speech in regards to your referendum SOP. Let it be heard in this nation that you\u2019ve made that speech. Let it be heard in this nation, then, because if that SOP fails to go through, and then you have broken-up views on conscience votes, then I\u2019m going to tell you this now, and I can\u2019t use that word, but it could be \u201Chypocritical\u201D\u2014it could be. It could be the fact that what you\u2019re doing is that your words do not match your actions. So I\u2019m going to put it on you. I\u2019m going to make it really clear: if you do not have your SOP and your SOP fails in the House, then I would challenge you to block vote the opposite way and vote against this. Why? Because, as you\u2019ve said very clearly, it goes against every single principle that you\u2019ve voted on in every single conscience vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EBut, in this case, may I remind you that this is a Government bill. This is not a member\u2019s bill. It\u2019s the same Government that, by the way, you are a coalition member for. So in that case you have more responsibility. You knew that I was going to say this, so I\u2019m going to say it again: vote to your principles. If the SOP fails, then vote to oppose the bill. Why? Because that goes against everything that you stood for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ECan I say this: this SOP here, 292\u2014in our case there were times where there was a referendum; we\u2019ve had them in our season as a National Party. Why? When we had the flag referendum, we had to stand on that view to put it out to the public. So I\u2019m not opposed to referendums, but what I will challenge are people that stand in this House\u2014a party that would stand in this House and stand on a referendum, and yet, when the proof in the pudding comes, they vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcf5d2ca636747348048c9660ee8e8b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcf5d2ca636747348048c9660ee8e8b4\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E In light of that, I move that the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022af27a2bed33f4e51baaf05d2a7e73ff4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af27a2bed33f4e51baaf05d2a7e73ff4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, you don\u2019t say the beginning bit; you must only move the motion and then I would have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c9a8e26d295409d83e18e95cd12014d\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It was still worth it. I move the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f49bddf402440edbb32bf10419d7b22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it\u2019s too late now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5c6afee59f2407ab0c54d0e8c50dca1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5c6afee59f2407ab0c54d0e8c50dca1\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I\u2019m always astounded that proponents of free speech are the ones very quickly to try and shut down debate and discussion, and, ironically, one on a referendum. So I\u2019ll start where my honourable colleague Alfred Ngaro finished, which is around the whole question of referendum or, to be probably correct, referenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt will probably disappoint some, particularly in the pro-life movement, that I will not be supporting this Supplementary Order Paper: one, out of principle. I\u2019ve always\u2014well, I\u2019ve articulated in the committee this evening, as I have in other weeks: I think consistency is important, and I have, in effect, been opposed to referenda as a mechanism around bills such as this. At the end of the day\u2014and I think, actually, it was one of my colleagues Ian McKelvie who raised it last week or the week before when he was prophetically looking towards this part\u2014we\u2019re given the time and resource to put this together. It starts with the Government, and I think it\u2019s important to note this is a Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know\u2014this is obviously not a question for the Minister\u2014how enthusiastically he accepted the ball or not, but it\u2019s a Government bill, and it starts with a Government that has the resources of Government to put a bill together that it sees as right and proper. Obviously I disagree with that, but the bill has come in front of a select committee. Tens of thousands of New Zealanders sought to have their voices heard, and so I find it a little bit rich\u2014again, not as a personal comment to Mr Ball but to New Zealand First\u2014that we had a select committee process which actively and deliberately stopped people having their voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIt remains an outrage to me, having chaired select committees for years, that only 150 select people\u2019s stories were allowed to be heard, and yet now this House is discussing the possibility of having a referendum to go and talk to people. To be blunt about it, it\u2019s just a crock. There is no intention to really want to engage the people; there\u2019s just a desire to get this done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut, as I say, we in this House were elected to be representatives. I think I\u2019d be remiss and I think this House would be remiss if it doesn\u2019t do its job, and if every time we come across a difficult question we throw it back to the people with some sort of moralising \u201CReferendums are important for people to have their say\u201D approach, I think we\u2019d fail in our duties there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also noting that we have had inconsistencies over two life issues at the moment where referenda are being pushed\u2014paddled about, if you will\u2014as conveniences. I don\u2019t intend to relitigate the end of life choice, and I\u2019ve always said there is a distinction around the euthanasia and abortion debates. But a referendum was voted through on euthanasia for the simple reason that it was the only way, it seemed, to get it through, and people compromised their principles left, right, and centre to let that through. Tonight, there\u2019s a hint that the referendum is not going to make a difference. People are more than happy to capitulate their views on referenda\u2014\u201COh no, no, no, we\u2019re not going to have one on this occasion.\u201D So I would certainty put out to the people who are watching and listening to look at who voted for the euthanasia referendum and then look at who votes against a referendum here, and note the galling, galling inconsistencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI also need to point out that I just see this as a continual New Zealand First ploy. I think there are many out there in the community who look to New Zealand First as some sort of conservative group, a moderate group, a considered group, but they are not. When it comes to the issues, they are not. If you have a conservative position and if you have a principled position on these moral questions, you stand up. Now, people don\u2019t always like your position\u2014people don\u2019t like my position. That\u2019s fine, but I stand up and I\u2019ll take it. I\u2019ll take the hits and I\u2019ll challenge why. But having a referenda is just a ploy to avoid the tough questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo I really encourage those people who support New Zealand First on the basis\u2014it is to me just a ploy. It\u2019s just a ploy, and I think, fundamentally, we\u2019ve got some problems there. [Interruption] So I think I may have touched a nerve, but I think it needs to be said. When we stick to principles, they must also stick to what we are called on to do in this House. Even if this bill goes, in a sense, against what I\u2019d prefer it to do, I think that we have the confidence of the House, and we should have the confidence of the House, to actually be able to vote on this and to have\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, I\u2019m getting slightly distracted, which is a bit unusual for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe really are MPs with a confidence, if you will. We\u2019ve had the time. Let\u2019s put the select committee process to the side, but we\u2019ve had the time to consider this, and I suppose my encouragement is for members to vote against having a referendum and to have the courage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u00227b4224ff4eea4591ae873fa0395ba3f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b4224ff4eea4591ae873fa0395ba3f1\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It is with some sadness that I have prised myself away from my desk and put my work aside to come down to the Chamber to make a contribution, because I have never ever heard, and I never ever expected to hear, from the Hon Alfred Ngaro such a sanctimonious, condescending contribution in my entire time in this House, and I\u2019ve been here for a lot longer than that member has. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt strikes me as somewhat strange, having listened to the wonderful contribution by Darroch Ball on behalf of New Zealand First that, suddenly, the party that stands for principles\u2014I mean, the same party that takes donations from the Communist Party. Many of these members that are here preaching their principles are only here because of donations from the People\u2019s Liberation Army\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d917ba96790947c7b063f38925bff87f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022005f18ccf8654c9089a19619b661d38e\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but I\u2019m saying on principles\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a721a9349542434595b402553e205688\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Ah\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e0ff61aedc449a90e9041d7f21bae5\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278bfb831398743348399722cb4e04df8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! No. Steer clear of that\u2014OK? We are debating clauses 1 and 2, a very narrow debate. It\u2019s got nothing to do with donations. Title and commencement and everything around it\u2014that\u2019s it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fab4a7b9467402790829a1ffde8a9f5\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. The contribution on the Supplementary Order Paper and the specific questioning and the challenging that\u2019s come back on New Zealand First\u2019s position that we would prefer and want to see a referendum\u2014that is not something new. That has been signalled in New Zealand First\u2019s manifesto for a long time. In fact, I think we discussed it in the coalition negotiations with the National Party, who didn\u2019t seem to have a problem with it then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m going to say let\u2019s deal with this question of who has the right to have the final say. A hundred and twenty people sit in this Chamber, many of whom will not be here after 20 September. In fact, most MPs who come here do one\u2014one term. In fact, it was the Hon Trevor Mallard who told me, when I was a new MP being inducted, of that very fact\u2014one term. So Mr Alfred Ngaro would say that 4.5 million people should be subjected to the decisions made by a bunch of one-term MPs on such a serious matter of conscience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThis is a serious matter of conscience to the nation, Mr Alfred Ngaro. It is not your preserve to stand up and tell all of New Zealand that you are right and they are wrong. Every New Zealander of voting age has a right to have a say on this matter. We would go so far as to say there is no longer\u2014for all of those National Party MPs I\u2019ve heard touting the benefits of electronic voting, it totally undermines one\u2019s argument, because if one can have electronic voting for a general election, then what is wrong with giving the people of New Zealand a say on conscience matters? Why should it remain the privilege of 120 New Zealanders to determine this once and for all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ELet me be clear about this. I predict\u2014and Mr Alfred Ngaro has rolled out his crystal ball and made a clairvoyant sort of prediction about what New Zealand First might or might not do if this Supplementary Order Paper falls over. Watch and see, Mr Alfred Ngaro. Don\u2019t throw your silly little challenges around, pontificating and beating one\u2019s chest, and playing Mr Righteous, Mr Sanctimonious in this Chamber, because it didn\u2019t cut it on television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ELet me assure that member, for everybody watching it, it didn\u2019t cut it, because most New Zealanders say, \u201CWhy should we be excluded from the democratic process?\u201D Yes, 30,000 people have had their say\u2014that\u2019s good democracy in action\u2014but there\u2019s another 4.5 million out there, Mr Ngaro. Every one of those people, every one of those families who has strong feelings on both sides of this argument, has a right to have a say. If anyone denies those New Zealanders of that right, well, I guess they\u2019ll answer for it on 19 September, won\u2019t they, Mr Ngaro?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00228587e77e48fb4d308b588ad059216c0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228587e77e48fb4d308b588ad059216c0f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, sir. Like others, I speak against the referendum Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 292 in the name of Darroch Ball of New Zealand First. It was once said, \u201CIsn\u2019t it funny how all those in favour of abortion have already been born?\u201D The aphorism of Ronald Reagan\u2014RIP\u2014is appropriate to reflect upon as we consider whether a referendum is a good way of deciding such a fundamental matter as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe rights of vulnerable minorities are disproportionately engaged, which is the point that the New Zealand First members who have spoken in favour of the referendum have failed to acknowledge. There\u2019s the possibility of a tyranny of the majority. That means that on certain fundamental issues it is right that those who are in a position, yes, of power and, yes, of privilege\u2014that is a position that we 120 do occupy, admittedly temporarily, but that\u2019s called a democracy. I presume the Hon Ron Mark would not have it any other way. So it is, and as a matter of consistency with previous stances that I\u2019ve taken, along with Simon O\u2019Connor, I too resist the call that there should be a referendum on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt has been said sometimes that males should not have the right to speak on the matter. I think far too many of my fellow males in this country do abrogate their responsibilities in relation to child-rearing, so I think that we have a bigger societal issue\u2014my sex does, in relation to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ELet me simply note that some of the strongest pro-life advocates that I\u2019ve heard, and the most compelling, are females who speak from a point of view of connection\u2014literal, physical connection\u2014to the issues involved. I won\u2019t repeat the points that others have made in relation to the New Zealand First position. It is a matter of consistency over time, I will acknowledge that much, but in order for that to be true then the third reading vote, if the SOP on the referendum fails, should reflect that; otherwise it will be clearly noticed by those who watch such things, I would say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe debate has progressed through the House and the committee of the whole House, producing unusual alliances. There have been intersections of issues that have thrown together unlikely political bedfellows, in a sense\u2014a classic example would be that of the free speech or free expression in relation to the so-called safe zones, in which some of us have found ourselves voting together with others whom we\u2019re not normally meeting in these lobbies, the Ayes and the Noes, on conscience issues. But, nevertheless, that particular matter I thought was one of a matter of principle, and I applaud those who saw it along similar lines, notwithstanding that they\u2019re on the other side of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EMy point in relation to the proposal that there be a referendum is that there are complexities that do play out in this House to which ordinary New Zealanders getting on with their lives as best they can in the face of a global pandemic this week, as it happens, are not necessarily concerned with, and should not necessarily have to be concerned with either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe detail is important, likewise. There is a considerable amount of detail in this bill, and many of us have thrashed that out. Let me just say that I have much more respect for those who have spoken and engaged on the detail\u2014notwithstanding that they have come to different conclusions than me\u2014than those who simply refuse to engage. I do note that if New Zealand First wishes to state some sort of populist but apparently principled stance as lawmakers, then their engagement with SOPs other than those in their own name would be a really good indication of that; sadly, that has been lacking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOthers have made the point around democracy, and the need to respect that in the context of the select committee process rather than simply grandstand at the end of the process in relation to the referendum. I think New Zealand First voters might say to them, such as they are now, that in abrogating their responsibility in the way that they\u2019re proposing this committee of the whole House does, \u201CYou had one job.\u201D That would be the expectation of what I would say to New Zealand First from their voters: \u201CYou had one job.\u201D You are lawmakers duly elected to this place. You are supposed to spend the time that you have in this place to consider these things, not pass the buck. As such, there is no way that I can support this referendum SOP; I will be voting against it accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002233d617e02e1945aea3ef5a32c66e66d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233d617e02e1945aea3ef5a32c66e66d8\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002214e5f6ec700c48b1930f478dab55e433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214e5f6ec700c48b1930f478dab55e433\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this title and commencement stage of this bill. I\u2019d like to put on record my views in relation to the referendum clause. I won\u2019t be supporting this referendum because it\u2019s a cop-out clause put forward by the New Zealand First Party to cop out of taking responsibility to make the hard calls, to make the hard decisions, and to actually look into the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI sat here and I listened to Ron Mark get up and give a lecture to this Parliament and talk about this as being a serious issue of conscience for the nation. That is the first call that I\u2019ve heard Ron Mark get up in Parliament and take on this bill, and it\u2019s probably the last call that he\u2019ll be taking on this serious issue of conscience. I tell Ron Mark: if this is a serious issue of conscience, it\u2019s not just whether the bill goes to a referendum but what does that bill look like and what is the shape of that bill when it goes to referendum? Because there is more to the issue than just simply putting something to a referendum. I just think the New Zealand First Party should be ashamed of themselves for this cop-out position that they continually take on serious issues rather than being part of the debate, taking part in the issue, and actually looking at the issue and engaging in it like every other member of Parliament in this Parliament has. It is an absolute cop-out position from the New Zealand First Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI have a lot of respect for those who take a position that a referendum is something which might be needed to be looked at and is a position where the public should have a say. But when the party continues\u2014continues\u2014to ignore the process and continues to not engage in the process, that is something which I consider an absolute cop out. They\u2019ll go traveling up and down the country over the next six months, telling all the people that they see: \u201COh yes, we voted for a referendum so that you could have your say.\u201D, and, \u201COh yes, it\u2019s such a terrible bill; we voted for a referendum but the rest of the Parliament didn\u2019t.\u201D They\u2019ll try and convince New Zealanders that they\u2019re on the conservative side of this issue, but I tell you, New Zealand First, New Zealanders will see through it. I can tell you that, tomorrow afternoon, we\u2019re going to be in this House, and can you give this Parliament and your supporters a guarantee that you\u2019ll be voting as a block against the bill if the referendum doesn\u2019t go through? Alfred Ngaro asked that question, and Ron Mark didn\u2019t even give it an answer. He said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022724d63fccb0f4e36bd937ebbafad0e4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022724d63fccb0f4e36bd937ebbafad0e4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but it has come time for me to leave the chair. The committee is suspended and I will resume the chair at 9 a.m. tomorrow for the extended sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200317d02ef810a64c4dc7957f5c0b477275b4000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd2536852b0b4b6bb74e109f732ed622\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 17 MARCH 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb35ddaf2ee04d02b043f716d8a6978a\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 18 March 2020)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c013a719455f49afb0128a07ae281b92\u0022\u003EAbortion Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022924bc992b8c148bb95df5436f3b8b8aa\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022129da2a614ae45ac911202505cf07fe0\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00226f63871ecbf5428aa5d7d7476f7a1b71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f63871ecbf5428aa5d7d7476f7a1b71\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. As I was saying last night, we\u2019re debating the title and commencement, and, in particular, we\u2019re dealing with a Supplementary Order Paper from Darroch Ball, which I call the \u201Ccop-out clause\u201D, which is being applied to this bill, whereby the New Zealand First Party is trying to once again cop out from taking responsibility and actually coming to this House, and coming to this Parliament, and actually making a serious decision on whether they support this bill or not. What they\u2019ve decided is they would prefer to go to the public and say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to have a referendum.\u201D, and then hide behind that, rather than actually being clear as to where they stand on what Ron Mark called a \u201Cserious issue of conscience\u201D. Well, if it\u2019s a \u201Cserious issue of conscience\u201D, I\u2019d like to know what their conscience actually says or whether they\u2019ve actually got one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe second message I\u2019d like to say to members in this committee is that there is going to be a lot of inconsistency on display this morning as we debate this amendment. Only a few months ago, this Parliament was dealing with the End of Life Choice Bill, and we had people stand up in this House saying how much they hated the idea of referendums: \u201CWe shouldn\u2019t be sending big decisions like this to referendums. The Parliament\u2019s the one who should be making this decision, but, in this instance, if I don\u2019t vote for a referendum, this bill won\u2019t go through Parliament. So in this instance, whilst I don\u2019t agree with referendums, I\u2019ll be voting for a referendum on that bill.\u201D That was what we saw on the End of Life Choice Bill, but today, those same members of Parliament are going to re-find their principles, and they\u2019re going to stand up in this House and say, \u201CNo, no, no. I don\u2019t agree with referendums and I won\u2019t be voting for Darroch Ball\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper.\u201D There is going to be inconsistency on display in this Chamber\u2014unprincipled decision-making by members on this issue. But I say to Darroch Ball, this is the \u201Ccop-out clause\u201D and something which I will not be voting for for the same reasons I didn\u2019t vote on the End of Life Choice Bill for the Supplementary Order Paper on that bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to come to the title, and I will be seeking another call, because I will be moving an amendment to the title to the bill. The bill has been entitled the \u201CAbortion Legislation Bill\u201D. And it\u2019s been titled in such a way where the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, seeks to try and portray that this bill is some sort of just tidying up of the provisions\u2014just bringing the language into the 21st century, just sort of modernising things and a bit of a tidy up. So by naming it the Abortion Legislation Bill, the Minister\u2019s trying to sanitise the language of what\u2019s actually happening through this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019d like to propose that this bill actually be renamed the \u201CAbortion (Liberalisation post - 20 weeks) Legislation Bill\u201D, because that is the key issue that we in Parliament are actually voting on. There are arguments around what the Minister\u2019s put forward around the parameters pre - 20 weeks\u2014and I know many members of Parliament don\u2019t see a problem with changing the parameters there\u2014but the key issue that this bill is making a change to is what is happening for abortion post - 20 weeks. I\u2019ve stood alongside members of Parliament like Greg O\u2019Connor and Agnes Loheni and said, \u201COK, why don\u2019t we change this bill so that the same provisions apply to abortions post - 20 weeks as they currently stand?\u201D That would be a much more honest way in terms of how this legislation should be put forward. That would make it an \u201CAbortion Legislation Bill\u201D, because that would simply be, and in many ways, keeping the criteria the same, particularly for post - 20 week abortions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen a lot of concern in the community\u2014whether that\u2019s around sex-selective abortion, abortion on the grounds of disability, and, essentially, what this legislation does is introduce, under clause 7, new section 11, criteria which is vague, undefined, unclear, and does not provide the protections which the current legislation does around post - 20 week abortions. I want to just acknowledge Greg O\u2019Connor for bringing his Supplementary Order Paper. It was voted down, but that would have been a Supplementary Order Paper which would have made it very clear that the grounds for post - 20 week abortions would stay exactly the same as they are now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThere has not been a convincing argument put forward by Andrew Little, put forward by the Minister in the chair, as to why the law post - 20 weeks needs to change. There has not been a convincing argument. He\u2019s simply used language where he\u2019s tried to say, \u201CWell, we need to\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022915564a0178b455d8a88b48529d54873\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Get back to clause 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b81c489c40c489293b73219237036a1\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022796ac36e0ee84602bbbad3455a992469\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Get back to clause 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb4c061ccc64dd7a4f395254fcfc4bc\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about clause 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfab4e3ccf54b8f9b81434f3b9ed983\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, thank you. I\u2019m quite capable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d42b179c3bf54fe3aa0c2f30f4a4bd52\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re talking about the bill, very generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b040d87a0964618bf46d046a42e422d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. Darroch Ball, do not ignore me. This is a pattern of behaviour. I\u2019m well capable and I\u2019ve already signalled to the member. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba59b0a64164643b00a0bfeafd692f0\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019m talking about the title, and the argument that I\u2019m making here is that the title is not reflective of what the bill actually holds in it. So my tabled amendment, which I\u2019ll be tabling after I have finished speaking, is to replace the title \u201CAbortion Legislation Bill 2019\u201D with \u201CAbortion (Liberalisation post - 20 weeks) Legislation Bill\u201D, because the criteria\u2014and that\u2019s why talking about Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper and talking about clause 11 is so important\u2014have been loosened, the language has been weakened, and, as we have talked about in this House, that will lead to the criteria being more liberal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI ask the Minister in the chair to please give an assurance to this committee, because I don\u2019t think he can. Can he give an assurance to this committee that we aren\u2019t going to see an increase in the number of abortions post - 20 weeks? Because there\u2019s no data collection in this bill; the data collection only goes for another 18 months. So there is a need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229786a7fbad645b3ac589c6135209ea3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to clauses 1 and 2 please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272edac768d6a42f0bb35e8eea0953008\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so there is a need. All of these reasons are why the bill title is not reflective of what actually is happening in this legislation, so I will be tabling this amendment. This bill does liberalise abortion post - 20 weeks. It does change the criteria. It does put in language which is incredibly vague, like \u201CIn considering whether the abortion is clinically appropriate\u201D\u2014language which is not defined. If the Parliament didn\u2019t want to liberalise abortion post - 20 weeks, the Parliament should have voted for language which is defined, which is clear, such as what was put forward in the Supplementary Order Papers earlier in the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister in the chair to please take a call and explain how this is not liberalising abortion post - 20 weeks, because I don\u2019t think he\u2019ll be able to answer that question. He\u2019ll come up with a whole lot of reasons as to what he thinks will or won\u2019t happen, but, at the end of the day, he won\u2019t be able to provide an assurance to the House that it won\u2019t happen. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022 data-id=\u0022c58ba9bae1254398b8c427d15bdc8203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c58ba9bae1254398b8c427d15bdc8203\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I take this call to talk on the title. There have been many debates where, in legislation, people have then reframed the title. I do this with respect. So I look at the title, and it\u2019s the Abortion Legislation Bill. But as we\u2019ve progressed through the House\u2014first reading, second reading as it\u2019s come out of select committee, and also committee stages\u2014I have a concern. Out of that concern, I want to sort of quote so that I substantiate, when I talk about this, why I think it should be reframed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EI first of all want to point to the evidence that was given by the Attorney-General. And I want to quote from paragraph 22 of the evidence as the Attorney-General which he submitted to the Abortion Legislation Committee. I read this in paragraph 22: \u201CIn considering limits on abortion access, I conclude there are two equally important interests at play: personal bodily autonomy, on the one hand; and a broad societal interest in the preservation of human life, on the other.\u201D I then want to, further down in that, read the whole paragraph because I don\u2019t want to misquote it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203b9bcba5c354aa8be86dd23a326d5f0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would like you to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d291f02954db4c1e9e4fa084611c9e4e\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: This is to do with the title, Madam Chair. So this is to add to the title that I\u2019m going to pronounce to give evidence to the reasons for that title. Should I pronounce what that title is now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227938a92586644867af3b16c03e238087\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I think so, and then that sort of links it in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b1fbc2166ff473886642b0bc0436419\u0022\u003EHon ALFRED NGARO\u003C/span\u003E: Would that be helpful? So in order to keep it in the focus, I propose that the new title should be \u201CAborting the Rights of the Child Legislation Bill\u201D. And the reasons for that I then quote from the Attorney-General \u201CI conclude there are two equally important interests at play: personal bodily autonomy on the one hand and a broad societal interest in the preservation of human life on the other. I do not consider that the fetal viability alone is determinative reason to limit pregnant women\u2019s human rights. But states must none the less find some way to balance the two broader interests I have described. The broad societal interest in preserving human life is therefore a sufficiently important objective to justify a limitation on human rights, and limiting access to abortion is a rational way of achieving that objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThroughout this debate, and through this legislation, there haven\u2019t been the two interests at heart; there has only been the one interest. I want to put on the record here that being pro-life is not being anti-choice. Being pro-life is being pro-choice, both at the same time. I disagree when people try to draw a line and say you\u2019re either pro-life or pro-choice. I believe, and many who are pro-life believe, in the choices of both the mother\u2014the woman\u2014and the child. That\u2019s what we\u2019re clearly saying. So we\u2019re saying this: where is the balance of the perspective of the voice and the understanding of the child in regards to this? Hence the reason why the title that I\u2019ve submitted here is \u201CAborting the Rights of the Child Legislation Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003EThat title is also supported by advice that has been given from the High Court. When I read from this, here is what it says, which I believe supports the changing of the title: \u201CCurrently our abortion law seeks to balance these competing interests by requiring each prospective abortion to qualify under statutory criteria and by making unlawful abortion subject to criminal provisions. In the words of the High Court, \u2018the legislature has recognised, through the abortion law, that the unborn child has a claim on the conscience of the community.\u2019 \u201D\u2014has a claim on the conscience of the community\u2014\u201C \u2018the legislature has recognised, through the abortion law, that the unborn child has a claim on the conscience of the community.\u2019 We therefore consider it both unprincipled and inconsistent with aspects of our current law to entirely disregard the interests of an unborn child, as [proposed in this bill].\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022695678cf-542a-4616-9e0a-86990caec192\u0022\u003ESo the changes that I propose are consistent with both legislature and the judiciary, with the advice from the Attorney-General that we have not taken into account the interests of the unborn child. We have not taken into account that there are two interests here. Again, as I say, we are both pro-life and pro-choice\u2014the choice of the woman, absolutely; it\u2019s their democratic right. But what about the rights of the child? So, therefore, again, my title that I would like to submit to the House\u2014in order to reflect the truth of this legislation and the truth of this bill, it should be titled the \u201CAborting the Rights of the Child Legislation Bill\u201D, because we are no longer hearing the voice or the concerns of the child in this legislation, and in this nation, many people are now starting to hear this concern and have voiced them. As I said, there were over 21,000 submissions\u201491.6 percent of medical practitioners and otherwise have said that this bill is unsafe for our community and for our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022991409b188ec4b11b17104956089eb67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022991409b188ec4b11b17104956089eb67\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I thought I\u2019d be generous at the start of today, so my gift to this Parliament on this\u2014well, I was going to say on this new parliamentary day; it\u2019s a continuation of yesterday, but this will be my last call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5734c748c4f49ef969b7593e3cbe419\u0022\u003EHon Stuart Nash\u003C/span\u003E: Thank God!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9b9d73044304badb016ce24c4f4473a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know! You can thank God. Whether God thanks you is a whole different question. It probably comes down to how we vote here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ELook, two things I want to\u2014my inner theologian is kicking in all of a sudden. I want to just address New Zealand First very briefly to finish, I suppose, the challenges, regardless of us giving you a good picking on yesterday, I think, on referendum. It is probably the encouragement for the future, because I have no doubt that New Zealand First will continue to put referenda forward as a mechanism to sidestep the debate. It is an encouragement to be part of the wider debate, to take calls in the House, because, actually, at the end of the day, the bills that this Parliament shapes through first and second readings, committees and committee of the whole House, actually shape what ultimately goes to the public. As, I think, a couple of people noted yesterday, apart from talking to this referendum, New Zealand First hasn\u2019t participated any further. So any chance to have shaped an important piece of legislation is lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI will just then turn to the whole issue of titles. I\u2019ve been flirting with a few ideas. I better put that out really clearly\u2014ideas, OK, just before my wife starts calling me. I think the title lacks depth, unfortunately. I would certainly like to support the recently tabled amendment of Simeon Brown that this bill be known as the \u201CAbortion (Liberalisation post - 20 Weeks) Legislation Bill\u201D. I think that\u2019s actually fairly important. A lot of the coverage\u2014not so much in this House, but, again, through the media\u2014has completely ignored the post - 20 weeks part of it. I want to make that clear. That\u2019s actually not so much the Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little. I think he\u2019s been quite clear of what this bill does. But when you look at recent coverage and weeks, there\u2019s almost been a singular focus on the pre - 20 week element, and, yep, there are changes there. But probably the most substantial is around the post - 20 week. So Simeon Brown\u2019s amendment is excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESome other ideas that have been put to me includes \u201CAbortion (the Child Has No Rights) Legislation Bill\u201D. I\u2019ve banged the drum a lot on this\u2014that, actually, a human child, no matter what age, has rights, and it continues in my mind to be a little bit rich that those who talk about human rights are completely willing to remove every and all rights of the child. So an idea is, yeah, \u201CAbortion (the Child Has No Rights) Legislation Bill\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs of last night, another idea has come to mind: the \u201CAbortion (Disability and Gender are OK as Criteria) Legislation Bill\u201D. I think it\u2019s an absolute shocker that those with disabilities, or, obviously, if you\u2019re a man or a woman\u2014a person now can choose to abort the child because of their gender or because of their disability; a huge missed opportunity. I think, too, another opportunity is \u201CAbortion (the Demise of Conscience Rights) Legislation Bill\u201D. We\u2019ve had a constant attack on the conscience rights, and, as I pointed out last night, it\u2019s funny that those who are pro-choice are not pro-choice for the doctors or nurses to make their decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EIn light of the whole safe zones debacle, which continues, I thought the \u201CAbortion (Dirty Deals) Legislation Bill\u201D could be a title, and I\u2019m looking forward, of a sort\u2014tongue-in-cheek\u2014to more attempts at dirty deals today to bring the safe zones\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cedbd4b228a487ea8a4f035837e4447\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to bring your attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 114/6: \u201C[any] amendment to the title \u2026 must be a serious or objective description of the bill rather than an attempt to criticise its contents.\u201D, which that member is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a8ebdb7f2ca4838bec016abfa76af3e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I have it in front of me, but I think the definition of the word \u201Camendment\u201D\u2014I do not have an amendment in front of me that would fit that bill, but I am listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df81fa75bea4b3d8cd6e3e2bf29c8ca\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Only got a minute\u2014Darroch, you\u2019ll be right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, as I say, dirty deals. But, look, the one I think is the best\u2014the one that I think is the best, and it won\u2019t get voted on\u2014is particularly to the hundreds of thousands of my friends in the pro-life movement out there, and this title is the one that we need to stick to. It\u2019s the \u201CAbortion (the Fight Back Starts Today) Legislation Bill\u201D. So, yes, I\u2019d better say that again; I didn\u2019t get that out clearly. So it\u2019s the \u201CAbortion (the Fight Back Starts Today) Legislation Bill\u201D. Encouragement and aroha to all of you guys. You\u2019re awesome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022 data-id=\u0022f26edb6fbaaa49a49a59b3f527a183f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f26edb6fbaaa49a49a59b3f527a183f6\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to talk on two areas: the referendum, or the referenda\u2014I do not like referendums. I don\u2019t like them at all. I think that, as MPs, we were voted into this House to make decisions, to develop legislation, and putting this question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022367514e473e8487fabd02a57d56af8fd\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Aren\u2019t you a list MP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e554a801b94f4cc1b0eb4ffd426c00a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I\u2019m not\u2014I\u2019m not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a692876fcb0e4f0db970b622369abb21\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: Putting this question into the voting paper is, as my colleagues have said, a dereliction of duty of New Zealand First, to put this on to the voting paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003ESo many people have contacted me around all of this, this Abortion Legislation Bill. For us as MPs to be derelict in our duty, to actually take it into a referendum, is really a\u2014how would you put it? I don\u2019t want to say a curse, but I\u2019d say you should stay at home and start thinking about, really, your role here in Parliament, if that\u2019s what you want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, what this particular Supplementary Order Paper states is that if the majority of electors voting at a referendum do not agree that the bill should come into force, this bill is repealed. I would like to see any amendment to that immediately. It doesn\u2019t state a time frame. It is assumed that it will be immediately, but I would like that time frame to be, basically, put in if this referendum question goes through. I think this is typical, typical behaviour from New Zealand First. They did it in the End of Life Choice Bill and they\u2019re doing it in this particular piece of legislation as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EThere seems to be a pattern running here, that anything to do with death and dying, New Zealand First want to have a referendum question about it, any piece of legislation, and that tells me that they just don\u2019t have the guts to actually come up and just give the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228344e7116ee8448c88efc56f70d51f72\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Just be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c51f5ba8dc42768e84feac94b9336b\u0022\u003EJOANNE HAYES\u003C/span\u003E: My second piece of discussion around this is around the title. I think that the content of the abortion legislation itself is about the liberalisation of abortion. I have spoken about this in previous speeches. I have spoken about the fact that the unborn child has no rights\u2014it has no rights; it will be aborted or not. I think that there is too much liberalisation post - 20 weeks. There should not be any of those things happening; there should be doctors and psychologists or counsellors there as part and parcel of the whole abortion process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EI looked at the many titles that have actually been put on the Table here today. The title that I think best describes this bill is Simeon Brown\u2019s title of the \u201CAbortion (Liberalisation post- 20 weeks) Legislation Bill\u201D, because that\u2019s what this particular bill is all about. Let\u2019s not cover it up. Let\u2019s not say that it\u2019s something it\u2019s not; it is about liberalising abortion for all ages. My Supplementary Order Paper 463 around children in the Care of Children Act spoke mainly about the repeal of section 38. What this bill will do is actually offer abortion to all ages of women without any regard to any caregiver, or any other person, being involved to actually support that person or for that person to discuss their issues with. That\u2019s why I think that the title should be \u201CAbortion Liberalisation Legislation Bill\u201D, as my colleague Simeon Brown so eloquently put it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022758dcaf3-9976-43ac-8593-79f66ee4da22\u0022\u003EIt does hurt me to be standing here arguing over this when it should be a simple vote put in this Chamber by ourselves who we regard as legislators. But a referendum actually takes that away and it is sad, I believe, for this House and for this country that we as members of Parliament cannot get up into this decision-making process that we were voted in to do. That\u2019s about all I have to my contribution to this title and commencement piece of the legislation. I would like for the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, to actually stand and respond to the questions Simeon Brown asked the Minister. I don\u2019t support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022 data-id=\u00221190b61f586e4c85ab520f14ffc99202\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022490ccdbf-7c22-4e12-98f2-f3aa08f8e676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221190b61f586e4c85ab520f14ffc99202\u0022\u003EHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6a07d4712574a0fac8094df5c10412a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6a07d4712574a0fac8094df5c10412a\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I firstly want to express concern that at a time when our country and the world is struggling and coping with the challenge of the coronavirus, Parliament, under extended hours, is rushing to pass through this very controversial legislation. I think that is inappropriate. I think, on such issues of which there are such impassioned views, Parliament needs to take a breath and ensure that it gets such legislation that goes to the very core of the protection of life with some caution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI want to speak on the issues around a referendum. I make no apologies for being a conservative. I believe that this bill goes too far, particularly with respect to the lack of protection in the latter stages of pregnancy, and so I am tempted\u2014knowing the Parliament has the numbers\u2014to support the amendment moved for a referendum. But I\u2019ve opted to take a principled stand. It is my view that this Government is being very convenient and manipulative in when it chooses to allow New Zealanders to have a vote and when it decides that Parliament should decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EYou see, when we came to the issue of euthanasia, I said, \u201CNo, these are really detailed issues, and, actually, Parliament needs to do its job and write the law\u201D, and I voted against the referendum on that issue; the bulk of the Government voted in favour. When we come to the issue of cannabis liberalisation, the Government is of a view that the public should have a say. So why is it that the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, on the issue of abortion, takes a different view? The Minister in the chair should be honest, and that is simply: \u201CWe\u2019ve got the numbers, and, as a consequence, we\u2019re not going to let New Zealanders make the choice on the issue of abortion.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere is actually a very strong parallel between the issues of life and death at the end of life that have surrounded the debate on euthanasia and the issues in this bill that we\u2019re grappling with in terms of abortion. It is my view that the Government is conveniently manipulating the system of Parliament, and of the public, in its choices about where it wants to give New Zealanders a vote and where it does not. It has a very liberal agenda, whether it be on abortion, whether it be on euthanasia, or whether it be on cannabis. Rather than taking a principled point of view, it will simply choose the track of which it can advance its liberal reforms that, I believe, in all three cases, go too far and undermine some of the essential features of New Zealand society as a caring society that values life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EIt is my view that there are issues that should be put to referendum. There are issues of which, I\u2019m sorry, we as parliamentarians have a vested interest\u2014if it\u2019s a substantive constitutional change, whether we have a three- or four-year parliamentary term, whether we have MMP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa725cbc26e04e81822f9459fda9be2d\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Or a flag.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc9a8061729946998dd7c96516feb584\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014whether we\u2019re going to have a decision on a flag\u2014but I noticed New Zealand First opposed the referendum, and that just shows you how unprincipled and manipulative members of the New Zealand First Party are. It is my view that on those constitutional questions where Parliament does have a vested interest, such referenda are entirely appropriate. But on issues like abortion or euthanasia or cannabis, the devil is in the detail. Actually, in my view, there are quite different views about short- and early-term abortions as compared with late-term, and in issues of conscience, the detail of the bills are important, and that is why Parliament should do its business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo, reluctantly, I am voting against the referendum because I believe that this bill goes too far. But I want us as a Parliament to actually think about taking some principled approach about where we have referendum and where we do not. I actually think that we undermine our fundamentals of our democracy and the way our society works, when we conveniently pick and choose where we have referendum rather than taking a principled approach. Let\u2019s be clear: the Government has a liberal agenda, and this is just their way of getting there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022f445790952004f739656bd8a97c3f9e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f445790952004f739656bd8a97c3f9e4\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I was very torn about whether or not I\u2019d take a call on this bill, the Abortion Legislation Bill. I haven\u2019t taken a call up until now, but I have been in the House and I\u2019ve listened very carefully to the debate. I want to acknowledge the Minister in the chair, Andrew Little, who has stood on many occasions and addressed the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) and issues that were raised; that is how our parliamentary process should work in a strong democracy like ours. I took a lot of time studying each SOP and often talking to the author of each SOP. It\u2019s a polarising issue. I know that my closest colleague and friend in this House, the Hon Alfred Ngaro, and I have been on different ends of the spectrum, but I want to acknowledge him and the respect that he\u2019s shown me. I hope that he\u2019s felt that I\u2019ve shown and accorded him the same respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe way that I treat conscience votes is that I go back to my electorate and I allow my electorate to have their say, and whatever the majority is through surveys, public meetings, and a public poll that I run, that\u2019s how I\u2019ll come to this House and that\u2019s how I\u2019ll vote. So it\u2019s fairly well in line with the ideology around a referendum; it\u2019s allowing the country to actually decide on these important conscience votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe only thing that I will do is I will always let my electorate know, where I know, so that they know where I stand personally on the issue. And where I stand personally on this issue\u2014and I could be accused of taking a very simplistic approach\u2014is quite simply driven through my own personal experience. And that is, I spent a better part of 10 years in regions like the Middle East and Africa, and I saw rape used against women as a tool that created enormous damage\u2014damage that is still going on today while we sit in this House and debate this bill here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI saw enormous mental health issues created through it. And I felt that when we had a chance as a country to be able to remove abortion from our Crimes Act and not to have to put a woman in a position where she had to fake a mental health issue\u2014and I think there\u2019s no greater perverse outcome in a country where we\u2019re struggling to get on top of mental health issues, where we\u2019re struggling as a nation to get on top of suicide rates than to put our women in a position where they have to fake a mental health issue. It\u2019s perverse for me personally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why, for me, it was quite simplistic in the sense that I wanted to support a bill, and I do support a bill, that is going to remove it from the Crimes Act, that it\u2019s no longer going to be in the Crimes Act, and that we\u2019re no longer going to require women to fake a mental health issue to get access to something that she obviously feels strongly that she needs. I am not going to judge any woman in terms of what their decision is. Because it\u2019s a tough one, and it\u2019s a hard one, and it\u2019s harrowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to talk about post - 20 weeks. That is a very tough issue, and I want to acknowledge all my colleagues that have put Supplementary Order Papers in and stood up and talked with passion to that, because it\u2019s something that we all struggle with. My own experience was as a young police officer, 20 years old, travelling down Mount Eden Road with a very close colleague of mine\u2014he\u2019s now a police area commander. We got flagged down by a very distraught husband whose wife had gone into labour at 24 weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAs a 20 year old, and having just graduated from Police College, I have to admit that I hadn\u2019t watched the video that closely on how to assist childbirth. I wish that I had at that moment, because that\u2019s exactly the sort of support that we had to provide. I was junior man, so Rod took the radio and he disappeared and started giving sitreps, and I was left to support the mother and assist with the birth. It was a premature birth, but I\u2019ve never forgotten, to this day, holding that little baby boy in my hand. He literally fitted in my hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EParents that lose children post - 20 weeks\u2014it has an enormous psychological and emotional impact on them. It\u2019s not something that\u2019s taken lightly. I spoke with a mother and father two weeks ago that went through this. They tried hard for years for her to get pregnant. They finally achieved it. They finally got to their goal, and they celebrated the pregnancy. During the pregnancy it became obvious that, actually, her life was in grave danger. In fact, it\u2019s probably highly unlikely that she would have survived carrying that baby to term. And they had to make the most excruciating, worst decision that they could possibly make. [Bell rung] Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f42d30bee3a4e63a7d733f0d2ee8c32\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Hon Mark Mitchell. You can finish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229619910f39744c0790b99900b8b8c549\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll wrap up. I\u2019ll wrap up now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWe shouldn\u2019t ever\u2014we should never, ever discount the stress and the torment that, in this case, the parents or a woman go through in terms of coming to that decision and making that decision. I completely respect the other side of the debate. I\u2019ve received numerous emails and correspondence on it. I can assure everyone that I\u2019ve read it. I just wanted to stand up and put on record where I stand and how I feel about the issue. I\u2019m not judging either side of the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI will continue to go back to my electorate, and I\u2019ll continue to take guidance from them on these conscience issues. I have to be honest with you that, most of the time, they get it right. In fact, I feel they\u2019ve got it right on every occasion that I\u2019ve gone back, and there\u2019s been four of them. So, Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to stand and take a call on this, the Abortion Legislation Bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf82b831c460487ca602c6cdbf4206bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf82b831c460487ca602c6cdbf4206bb\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendment in the name of Simeon Brown to clause 1 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003Ereplace \u201CAbortion Legislation Bill 2019\u201D with \u201CAbortion (Liberalisation post-20 weeks) Legislation Bill 2019\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c95bb6e3c1904afb8cf848b4790a7305\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 30\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv 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\u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 90\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227f4fb8dbbee6423c8e7622246a671358\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 82\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000082\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 292 in the name of Darroch Ball to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226b64e299498a47499aa5aaf2a01f2521\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 19\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 100\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERoss (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECraig (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWood\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECurran (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELees-Galloway\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESage (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELittle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYang (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224e2c98f47af04aabb7718fe5a7c497a3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAdams\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFaafoi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMallard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESio (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAllan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFalloon\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMartin (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArdern (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGhahraman (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKelvie\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett D\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETolley\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett P (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENash\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHudson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWagner (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHughes (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWall\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHuo\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPrime (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWarren-Clark\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EClark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJackson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECoffey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKaye (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERobertson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              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(P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavis (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELogie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELubeck (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EShaw (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEagle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDyson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 46\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBakshi (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor S\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETabuteau (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBall\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKing (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETirikatene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBarry (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee M\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBridges (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELoheni\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacindoe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWalker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDean (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMahuta (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhaitiri (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDowie (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMark (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoodhouse\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYoung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGuy (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EYule (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHayes\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMuller (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EScott (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipango (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENgaro (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETeller:\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStrange\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00228794df6edd804708a863079019ae4e99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228794df6edd804708a863079019ae4e99\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to correct the vote on Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 292, in the name of Darroch Ball\u2019s amendment to clause 2, and to correct\u2014there was a proxy vote for Maggie Barry in favour of that SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002246a0d90938ac43f1acfdd4c8932e9e10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246a0d90938ac43f1acfdd4c8932e9e10\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: So leave is sought; is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f497e59c89c6431cbc8405484ab67702\u0022\u003EHon Ruth Dyson\u003C/span\u003E: Was it cast the wrong way, or not cast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b4e8b2654a4cb9bd3a24eac63ed58d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Not cast. No objection? There is objection. OK, I\u2019m sorry, there is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 455 in the name of Jan Logie be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EBill reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022095deb038e144ad088e34724ce6162fb\u0022\u003ETaxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227fb1675946234dd58ba0e8ef167a76be\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022 data-id=\u00225137656101e2406f9547d94c5612d804\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225137656101e2406f9547d94c5612d804\u0022\u003EHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s objective for the tax system is for it to be as fair as possible. We think that the system should treat taxpayers fairly so that different taxpayers with similar amounts of income pay similar amounts of tax. We want the system to act neutrally regarding economic activity. In raising revenue, the tax system must seek to minimise compliance costs. It\u2019s also fair that people pay tax at the rate intended under our progressive income tax structure. These are worthy aims. The proposals in this bill are guided by, and aim to achieve, these goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EMembers will be aware of the simplification programme being run at Inland Revenue (IR). That programme will go a long way towards improving fairness by helping make the system easier to use and understand. At the same time, while the hood is up, so to speak, on IR\u2019s technology system, the bill provides an opportunity to introduce changes to address longstanding problems awaiting the advent of better technology. Already, most of IR\u2019s services and functions have been transitioned to a new, simpler set of procedures, allowing a greater level of self-management and greater control and generally better outcomes. Next month it will be the turn of KiwiSaver and student loans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe main feature of the KiwiSaver proposals in this bill are: one, a proposal to improve the speed that employer contributions are paid to scheme providers by allowing Inland Revenue to pass KiwiSaver employer contribution amounts to scheme providers based on pay-day filing information; two, changes that ensure Inland Revenue pays interest on employer and employee contributions from the employer\u2019s pay day until the contribution is afforded to the member\u2019s scheme provider; three, reducing the KiwiSaver provisional period and holding period, meaning that new KiwiSaver members\u2019 contributions will be with their scheme provider sooner; four, reducing the time frame for the transfer of members\u2019 information and funds between providers; five, removing the three-month grace period for people invalidly enrolled in KiwiSaver to gain residency; and six, requiring employers to provide information to Inland Revenue on the employees\u2019 income to help ensure employers are deducting members\u2019 contributions at the right rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes that people with life-shortening conditions such as, for example, Down syndrome should be able to withdraw their KiwiSaver funds before the age of 65.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThis bill also deals with an issue related to KiwiSaver\u2014the prescribed investor rate. When investors are on an incorrect prescribed investor rate, or PIR, either too much or too little tax can be paid. When too much tax has been paid, there is no legislative provision that exists allowing the overpayment to be refunded. The bill addresses this issue by allowing automated refunds of overpaid tax through the simple and efficient means of a square-up process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EStudent loan changes: the main proposals relating to student loans are providing certainty to borrowers by limiting the situations where changes would be made to a borrower\u2019s payment obligations prior to 1 April 2013; renaming the student loan repayment holiday to \u201Ctemporary repayment suspension\u201D to reinforce that repayment obligations have simply been suspended; allowing employers to be notified of an employee\u2019s loan balance when their student loan is close to being fully repaid\u2014this will reduce the chance of overpayments for borrowers who are close to repaying their loan; and treating overseas-based borrowers who are unable to meet their repayment obligations as a result of serious illness or disabilities as physically in New Zealand so that their loans will not be subject to interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EResearch and development: the third main component of this bill relates to R \u0026amp; D tax credits. The main proposals in this bill relating to this are making R \u0026amp; D tax credits more broadly refundable, with a cap based on labour-related taxes paid by the firm each year; excluding entities that derive mostly tax-exempt income from the research and development tax credit regime, as they already derive significant benefits from the tax system; changing the in-year approval regimes to provide more certainty for taxpayers undertaking R \u0026amp; D, that their activities will be eligible for the credit; and smaller amendments designed to clarify aspects of the regime to improve its sustainability and make things simpler for customers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EOther matters contained in the bill include three changes to employee share scheme rules. The bill proposes to extend the definition of \u201Cmarket value\u201D for these rules so that employers can more easily value the shares they give to employees under the share scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe two other changes relate specifically to exempt employee share schemes\u2014schemes which allow the employer to grant the employee some shares tax-free. Under these rules, the employee normally has to hold the shares for three years before disposing of them, or else they become taxable again. But the bill proposes that if the employee has their shares bought back from them during that time in a takeover or other corporate reorganisation\u2014an event which is obviously outside of their control\u2014the shares won\u2019t become taxable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EThe last proposal gives employees the flexibility to let an employee keep their tax-free shares if they leave employment voluntarily, which is not possible under the current rules. This better aligns the New Zealand employee share scheme rules with the Australian rules, which is a boon for trans-Tasman companies offering share schemes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EA longstanding area of uncertainty for taxpayers in relation to donation tax credits and gift deductions has been the treatment of debt forgiveness. The bill proposes to clarify that gifts made by the way of debt forgiveness will not qualify for donation tax credits or deductions. The proposal ensures that donation tax credits and gift deductions are limited to gifts of cash or repayments made by methods such as bank transfers, credit cards, or cheques.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003ETo continue with the theme of charitable giving, the bill proposes updating the list of donee organisations in schedule 32 of the Income Tax Act 2007 to include a number of charities from the 2019/20 income tax year, including the renaming of the Medicine Mondiale charity to the Sir Ray Avery Foundation. The bill contains a number of minor remedial changes to improve clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bbded2ec-ac25-4a73-a380-3f4d87693084\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, these are the main features of this bill. In bringing this bill to the third reading, I would like to thank the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their work on the bill and their valuable contributions, especially the chair, who did a fantastic job with this bill as well. Thank you very much. I would also want to thank the policy officials and drafters for their work\u2014first class, as always. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2442d7ccf14280a6ca9b128cfefd3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2442d7ccf14280a6ca9b128cfefd3e\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to be talking on the third reading of this bill. We have indicated that we are going to support this bill, because it\u2019s a series of changes to the taxation system. As many of us have noted before, the system that New Zealand has in place in terms of managing our tax system is the envy of the world, but it does require vigilance around how we administer it and make sure that it is working to its full potential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis bill actually has a lot of very good elements to it. I\u2019m just going to pick up on a few of those. But the first one is around the application date for KiwiSaver members. Clause 14(1) would allow KiwiSaver members to change their contribution rate by giving notice to both their employer, which is the current situation and, under this bill, to the Inland Revenue Department (IRD).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis just gives a great deal of flexibility around people who want to change and make sure that they\u2019re on the correct rate of tax that they\u2019re paying in respect of their portfolio investment entity (PIE) income, which, normally, are types of investment that would include KiwiSaver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere was a little bit of concern about the compliance costs on employers in terms of the IRD, which would then notify them and they\u2019d have to action it. So the date for the commencement of that was pushed out to 1 April 2022, or an earlier date as set under an Order in Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other one is the requirement for employers to provide information to IRD. The big issue here is the requirement and the objective to make sure that people are paying their appropriate employer superannuation contribution tax, and this is something that takes place at the employer level when tax deductions are made. Under the new system that the IRD are implementing, the Business Transformation system, there is greater ability to make sure that people are paying their right tax and for the IRD to work out whether, in fact, they are, and to amend the situation on an almost real-time basis, as opposed to waiting until the end of the year and having to make a subsequent adjustment. I think, again, this is a good, practical measure to make sure that people are paying no more tax than they ought to, but are paying the sufficient amount of tax that they should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other aspect relates to the custodian issues. Now, custodian activities take place in New Zealand. They are, basically, entities\u2014and Public Trust is one of those\u2014that act as a sort of intermediary between an investor, and in many cases those are foreign investors, and the entity that invests money. It might be a sharebroking firm or a fund manager, or whatever. These financial institutions have a great deal of responsibility and obligation, but the issue gives rise particularly where you\u2019ve got foreign companies involved in investing into New Zealand, and it could be that they\u2019re buying Government stock, as a typical example. They use a custodian service to help them manage their affairs in New Zealand, and they\u2019re all legitimate and there\u2019s nothing to be untoward in terms of their activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut for the requirements for the New Zealand custodian where they don\u2019t actually have a lot of knowledge about the foreign investor, this bill tries to cut a pragmatic course through that, and the fact is it says that the New Zealand custodian institution would only need to report that a return has been made to a foreign entity or a foreign custodian service and not need to report the details of the actual payments or the end investor. Now, it sounds a little bit strange, but what it does do is it then highlights to the IRD that a payment has been made and for them to be able to pursue that and be able to track down what the ultimate beneficiary of that payment is and what the nature of that relationship and transaction was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other issue I want to raise is around R \u0026amp; D tax credits. Unfortunately, one of my colleagues will not be able to speak on this matter, and she\u2019s had a great deal to do with that. I\u2019m not highlighting that she\u2019s not here, but I just highlight the fact that she has made a contribution around that, and she\u2019s asked that I speak to this in terms of the issue around the research and development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThere are two courses under this bill. One is around people who traditionally do a lot of R \u0026amp; D, and they are called a significant performer. Then, there\u2019s a class of people who do research and development who don\u2019t normally do it in the ordinary course of events. The issue we\u2019re worried about is the compliance cost to get this general approval if you don\u2019t do more than $2 million worth of research and development every year, and we believe that in some cases that might actually outweigh the value of the tax credit received. A regime known as the criteria and methodologies approval was created for businesses in the significant performer regime to make sure that there was also the ability for that portion to be able to get approval quicker and easier, because one of the issues around this is making sure that we get research and development and funding into those entities who need it, and to get that funding very quickly and appropriately and in the right framework. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the last thing I wanted to turn my attention to is the issue around the non-refunding of money from people who have overpaid tax on their PIE investment funds. There are approximately 950,000 people in that category in New Zealand. They have paid, as at the end of the financial year just gone last year, about $50 million, and that figure will be accumulating even in this current financial year. So we were very, very concerned that these people should receive a refund. We spent a lot of time in the committee of the whole House talking about this, and I actually put up a Supplementary Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhen we originally took up this issue, and I took this issue up with the Minister in question, the first reason given as to why the Government would not refund this $50 million or so back to the lower-paid members of our society who have overpaid their tax on their PIE investment income was that there was a systems issue and it couldn\u2019t be done. However, when I spoke to the Commissioner of Inland Revenue, she made it clear to me that that was not the case and the system could cater for that. So the next time we took this issue up with the Minister, the excuse was \u201CWell, it requires a legislative framework.\u201D, and that\u2019s why I went to the extent of writing the legislative change. It\u2019s literally two clauses which would have meant that this could have occurred very quickly. So the excuse around there being a need to determine and prepare a legislative change, I actually solved for the Minister, so that defence fell away. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ELast week, when we were talking about this in the committee of the whole House, we heard a new argument from the Minister, which was around saying that it was an administration issue and it was a captain\u2019s call for the commissioner\u2014and it was, essentially, one around prioritisation. I do not believe that the Government could not have directed the commissioner, or there is an inability to make this payment. What this bill now caters for is that it is going to take place, but not until the 2021/22 financial year, and by a stroke of a pen and this bill today, we could have changed the commencement date and backdated it to the 2018/19 year. It is literally that simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe thing I find most disturbing is that through that whole debate where we were talking about making a tax refund to those earners on less than $48,000\u2014because only they are the ones who have overpaid, not people in the top tax bracket, like us; those poorer members of New Zealand society\u2014I did not see one speech given by the Labour Party members during that debate, nor the Green members, nor New Zealand First. They were absolutely silent on this issue. This is about protecting the rights of the lowest-paid people in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002200129a71ed1e40db901e9c2f98bdfa71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200129a71ed1e40db901e9c2f98bdfa71\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E It warms my heart\u2014it truly warms my heart\u2014to see the members on the opposite side of the House so concerned about low-income New Zealanders. May I suggest that they could extend that concern to all low-income New Zealanders? That would be a pleasant change from that side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI do want to pick up this issue that Andrew Bayly, the previous speaker, has just talked about to do with the portfolio investment entity (PIE) rates, and it relates to a very fundamental principle in our tax system, which is that our tax system is based on self-assessment. It underpins our system. Each of us in this room may not be aware of it, and many of the people listening on this Wednesday morning may not be aware of it, but when we complete our tax returns, we are, in actual fact, assessing our own tax and then presenting that to the Commissioner of Inland Revenue, who agrees or disagrees with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt is a fundamental principle that each person completing their tax affairs works them out for themself, whether they are a business person claiming deductions, a wage and salary earner, putting in for various donations and the like. We work it out for ourselves and tell the commissioner what we think we ought to be taxed according to the laws. So when people sign up for portfolio investment entities, one of the things that they are required to do is to assess what their own tax rate should be and report it to the PIE, who then deducts the tax and pays it over accordingly. So going back and refunding based on misreported rates would actually break that principle of self-assessment. Now, perhaps there could be a case for doing that, but if there has been a case for doing it with respect to portfolio investment entities, it has existed for years and years and years and years, and, in fact, it existed under the previous Government and it was not fixed then. I do not understand why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe fact is that in this bill we are fixing that problem going forward. So from now on, we will be able to fix that problem, and we\u2019re doing it under the law, we\u2019ve put through a legal change to make sure that we can actually do it going forward. So that is this Government taking responsibility going forward, which the previous Government did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, I just want to talk about the nature of this bill. It really has three main issues and two major focuses. With respect to the rules around KiwiSaver administration and student loans, what we see is a number of administrative changes which are making it easier for people to comply with the law and making it easier to get the tax law right. So I see these as very positive changes. When it comes to the research and development issues, there are some compliance issues in there, but there is also some very positive assistance for firms who are starting out and engaging in research and development; in that space, cash flow is king. One of the things that this bill does is help those firms with their cash flow by giving them easier access to credits for the work they have done on research and development. So it assists those firms and it assists us in increasing the amount of research and development that is done in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. I\u2019d like to thank the Minister and the Finance and Expenditure Committee for the work they have done on it and for the committee of the whole House for the work that was done in that space as well. I\u2019d especially like to note, on the select committee, the previous speaker, Mr Andrew Bayly, who is always an excellent contributor on that committee, and all the members of the committee who worked hard to get this bill right. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d921ba92eb4442f4b5c8cd86f306c81b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d921ba92eb4442f4b5c8cd86f306c81b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E National supports this bill. It\u2019s part of a detailed piece of tax legislation that the House deals with on a regular basis. Of course, we\u2019re meeting at the moment under extraordinary times when a lot of New Zealanders are desperately worried about the health implications of COVID-19 and also the economic consequences. So this is probably not top of mind for most people at this moment, but it\u2019s an important piece of legislation none the less. The only point I\u2019d make around tax generally is that, as the previous speaker mentioned, cash flow is king. And so there\u2019ll be a lot of businesses right now trying to figure out how they\u2019re going to pay the bills over the next few weeks, next month, how they\u2019re going to keep employing people, and the absolute priority for everybody across this House is to do what we can to lessen the chances of job losses over the next couple of months. Wage subsidies that have been announced yesterday will help\u2014albeit this side would have gone further and faster on that front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIn terms of this bill, specifically, the only point that I want to make is that the kind of attitude expressed through this Government in terms of dealing with the 550,000 New Zealanders who have underpaid their portfolio investment entities tax. It would basically be primarily people in KiwiSaver who\u2014and I\u2019m thinking of young people particularly\u2014will not be earning much and on a low tax rate, and because of, you know, a moment\u2019s inattention, I suppose, when they signed up to the scheme, or they didn\u2019t even sort of have the issue raised, they have found themselves on a 28 percent tax rate for their KiwiSaver profits when really they should be only paying 10.5 percent. So they\u2019re paying more tax than they should have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve only just recently got the ability, from an administrative point of view, to correct that and the Government seems to be adopting the philosophy of heads I win, tails you lose. That is to say that if you\u2019ve underpaid, we\u2019ll take the money off you straight away, but if you\u2019ve overpaid we won\u2019t give it back to you straight away; we\u2019ll wait a couple of years. We don\u2019t think that\u2019s right. We think they should be moving more quickly to give that money back to New Zealanders. They\u2019re paying more tax than they should and that makes a difference. It\u2019s only a small difference, but it makes a difference and it sends an important signal. So we\u2019re disappointed that they haven\u2019t supported Andrew Bayly\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 477 on this topic, which would have said \u201CLet\u2019s pay it back now.\u201D That\u2019s the only point I\u2019d make on this, but otherwise we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00223a2e0d092db2462f9c1ed5db45113b85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a2e0d092db2462f9c1ed5db45113b85\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d say to the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat, Andrew Bayly, that there\u2019s a famous English saying, and the saying runs along the following lines: that when opportunity arises it can maketh the man. I think it doesn\u2019t enhance the dignity of this House or the debates by veering off and making gratuitous bouts of critical k\u014Drero about the Government\u2019s response to the virus. That is not what this bill is about, and it\u2019s actually been enhanced by the select committee, which is good to see, by the most powerful select committee in the entirety of Parliament, the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Of course I\u2019d say that, because I used to be its chair. The reality is that the bill has been approved by the efforts of the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI just want to direct our attention to research and development and the improvements that have been made there, because unless we continue to upgrade not only our physical capital but our human capital and, obviously, human capital through improving the administration of our loans scheme\u2014and then financial capital, improving the efficiency and the clarity around our KiwiSaver scheme, and physical capital through ensuring that research and development continues in what will be a trying set of circumstances for our fellow Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI make the reference to the fact that the committee improved matters, because so often is the case that select committees can be rubber stamps. I suffered that problem when I sat on the select committees when the country was led by John Key. For far too many occasions those select committees had good ideas, submitters turned up but they were knocked out of the park and smashed in a capricious fashion under the last regime. So to see that the current bill has been improved by the efforts of the select committee\u2014I want to acknowledge the members of that select committee and also I want to acknowledge that there were opportunities during the committee stages of the House to improve matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI think this behoves well and I hope to see that spirit of comity more frequently from the other side of the House, given the nature of the challenges we have as a country before us, but I\u2019ll have more to say about that in my general debate speech later today. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e037d5a6352d491e880187d1df2fc2dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e037d5a6352d491e880187d1df2fc2dc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Judith Collins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022354127c20b614996af525635b106a5b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022354127c20b614996af525635b106a5b2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. What an excellent choice, might I say. Look, this is a bill that the National Party supports. We are disappointed that the efforts of our colleague Andrew Bayly to right a wrong for those, particularly KiwiSaver, investors, who have been overtaxed and actually were often not aware of what the tax rate should be\u2014that they cannot get their money back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI was disappointed that Dr Russell, who spoke just a few speeches ago on this matter as chair of the FEC, or Finance and Expenditure Committee, chose to make, I thought, quite gratuitous and unfortunate remarks by saying that the National Party didn\u2019t fix the system so that these payments could be made. We spent a billion dollars of taxpayer money fixing the IRD tax system and computer system, which, by the way, we had also inherited, but we all know that computer systems do not last for ever. The Inland Revenue computer system was, I was told when I was their Minister\u2014and getting the funding, along with my colleagues, to fix the system to enable the payments to be made\u2014the oldest of all of the Government\u2019s computer systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAnd that is one of the big problems is that when you have these systems, all the various changes that are made by various Governments to the way that payments are made, all these sorts of things, they all have to be coped with by a computer system that was dating back, I understand, from the early 1990s. So it\u2019s a wonder it didn\u2019t crash. It was very fortunate, and I thought Dr Deborah Russell, MP for New Lynn at this stage, made an unfortunate contribution. I generally get along very well with her and I generally have a great deal of respect for her chairing of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also disappointed that the Government has not taken up the opportunity to tell us yesterday\u2014unless I missed it in the documents that were sent to us as MPs about the Budget package, which, by the way, wasn\u2019t sent to us as MPs, and I still haven\u2019t received anything from Grant Robertson\u2019s office about what I can tell my constituents and where they can get help, other than to be told this morning, when I rang his office, that Business New Zealand has all the details, you can get them from them. That is outrageous. Most businesses are not members of Business New Zealand. It is by far those larger businesses that are. People need to know now about their KiwiSaver. They need to know now what\u2019s happening. They need to know now about their wages. Many people expect that their MPs\u2014being locked in here during this extraordinary sitting of Parliament\u2014would actually have that information. So I would say that there is a lot more that needs to be done about informing people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe also have a situation where the financial advisers are the people who often deal with KiwiSaver for not only businesses but for individual people. The financial advisers have asked the FEC to extend submissions out on the Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that, obviously, deals with how they operate, and this is very appropriate for KiwiSaver and other matters like that. The committee this morning, under the chairmanship of Dr Russell, chose not to grant that extension of up to a month. That is a disappointment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a disappointment because the National Party supported it, and so did ACT, because we understand that these are extraordinary times. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, \u201CWe need to be a little bit kind.\u201D Well, how about being a little bit kind to the 1,600 members of Financial Advice New Zealand, who are the advisers trying to help people when they see their KiwiSaver savings go down through the bottom of the floor? So I think there\u2019s no reason at all why a little bit of kindness couldn\u2019t have been extended, and I would hope that the chair would take the opportunity, while we are still locked in Parliament, to be able to help us to make a better decision than what was made this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI would also say, on this Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill, that I haven\u2019t heard anything from the Government about those overseas - based New Zealanders who are paying back their student loans. These people are paying back\u2014as we would hope that they would do. Many of those people have lost their jobs overseas. Many of those people are living, just as we all are, in uncertain times. We\u2019ve heard nothing from the Government, and I ask the Government to answer this: is there any provision being made to give these New Zealanders, who are doing the right thing by their student loans, a holiday for repayments\u2014something that they could have some time? Is there any provision being made? Are we thinking about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t worry about those New Zealanders who have had their student loans, known the rules, gone off overseas, and never cared about us again. But I do say I think we need to be a little bit thoughtful about this. So I will wait with bated breath to hear from Grant Robertson\u2019s office about what I can tell my constituents. I don\u2019t think I should have to tell them they can go to the Business New Zealand website; I think I should have better information than that. I actually think that when we are being asked, everyone, to work together, to come together for the benefit of our country\u2014and we all know that this is a very difficult time that we\u2019re about to go through. Right now is not so bad, but it will be next week and the week after. We know that economically and health-wise, it will be a very trying time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Government needs to keep the Opposition not just informed but in the room, because it is very important, and not to complain about someone playing politics when, actually, we don\u2019t even have the information. That is not right. What is playing politics is not giving us the information, and saying, \u201CYou can get it from some industry lobby group.\u201D I\u2019m sorry, that is not good enough. I would say to the Government, \u201CAll is not lost. They can repair this. They just have to keep us informed.\u201D I will be expecting that the Minister of Housing will be wanting to talk with me about what steps are being made to help people through this difficult time, and to understand that there will be people who can\u2019t pay their rent. There\u2019ll be people who can\u2019t do all sorts of things, and who need to be isolated\u2014very, very difficult at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo I expect a better standard from the Government on involving us. One of the ways to do this is to listen to the advice of our colleague Andrew Bayly on the KiwiSaver changes that we\u2019ve asked for. Remember this: we\u2019ve heard this morning from Dr Deborah Russell, the chair of the FEC committee, that these New Zealanders have, as she said, \u201CSelf-selected their tax rates\u201D. Most New Zealanders don\u2019t know the difference about how these things are going to change for them, because tax is a very difficult area. I know, as someone who has a tax degree and has practised in it, it is not something that we can expect everybody working in retail or any other business to just suddenly understand all the different rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EAlso, by the way, people\u2019s employment situations change. Sometimes they get a pay rise, sometimes they lose a job, sometimes they get a better job. All these things can affect that tax rate. Of course people make errors. Should they be punished for it to the tune of about $70 million? I don\u2019t think so. Not when we have the ability to fix it. We have the technical ability to fix it. We should fix it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00229f195fe039e8412d848ac01399f2ec25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f195fe039e8412d848ac01399f2ec25\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to start by thanking the Hon Judith Collins for her contribution to general debate then. Seeing as we have veered into general debate about the announcement yesterday, I would just like to say that I think that Business New Zealand are actually doing a very good job of communicating to a very wide audience, and that Ms Collins should not run down the work that Business New Zealand have been doing to communicate with the public and with their constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EBut to return to the actual matter at hand, which is the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill, as opposed to the COVID-19 response package announced yesterday, I would just like to put on record here at third reading a few points that are not often picked up here. The most important point is that this Government is committed to making the tax system as fair as is possible, and I think this bill does that in a number of ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are three things that I wanted to draw attention to. One of which is the changes around aligning the rules around employee share ownership schemes, which I think is fantastic because the changes that this bill introduces, in fact, shortly will, once it becomes an Act, make it more likely that you will have greater use of employee share ownership schemes. In terms of including more people in the productive economy and so on, I actually think that that\u2019s a very good thing to include not just your traditional owners but also employees as owners of the businesses that they work with. So I think that the set of rules around that changing are excellent. I just wanted to highlight that at this reading, because I think it\u2019s important that people are aware that those changes are happening and that that then means that they can start talking with their employees about perhaps introducing those schemes or extending those schemes where they have them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe second thing that I wanted to highlight in this is changes around the student loan scheme. There are a number of them, obviously, in this one, but there is a particular change that, again, hasn\u2019t been often highlighted during the course of this debate that I wanted to draw attention to, which is around treating overseas-based borrowers who are unable to meet their repayment obligations because they are chronically sick or have a disability\u2014to treat people who are overseas but have that set of circumstances as if they\u2019re domestically located in terms of their repayment obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EFundamentally, that makes life just a little bit easier for those people, because the obligations if you\u2019re overseas are quite onerous, and if someone has a physical disability or a health condition that makes it very difficult to make those payments, then this helps those people out. Again, I think that that\u2019s worth highlighting because people need to know that they can now avail themselves of that once it takes effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe third one\u2014and this has been highlighted previously, and it does actually restore a bit of faith in the parliamentary process because it did come through as a result of a submission in the select committee stages, and there aren\u2019t actually that many bills that do see significant changes as a result of the select committee process, sadly\u2014is the changes that allow people with a life-shortening congenital condition to draw down on their KiwiSaver funds prior to the age of 65. So, again, in the spirit of fairness and equity, the ability\u2014you know, introducing that provision, I think, creates an additional economic circumstance for people with those conditions, which should help them out. And that, again, is only fair and a very good idea, so I\u2019m really pleased that that provision was introduced during the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe bill obviously does a great many other things which have been well traversed in the House. Obviously, there have been a number of other issues that have been traversed in the House that had nothing to do with this bill. But those three things are things that I think are very commendable, and I wanted to make sure that people are aware of them so that they actually do get taken up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI do want to thank the select committee\u2014I was not on the select committee for this bill\u2014I think they did really good work. I\u2019m delighted that we\u2019re now able to pass this bill into law, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002231de8941afe044cb9cf6473a6056f1cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231de8941afe044cb9cf6473a6056f1cb\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I actually would like to just address James Shaw and his comments about Judith Collins. I listened to her very closely, and I didn\u2019t get a general debate speech at all. In fact, I found it very informative on tax and on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWith that said, I\u2019d also like to address the life-shortening conditions and the ability for people with those conditions to withdraw their funds or get access to their funds from KiwiSaver earlier. It actually started life as a member\u2019s bill, which was by Nicola Willis, and was put in the ballot and wasn\u2019t actually drawn. She actually negotiated with the Hon Kris Faafoi to try and get something done, but it was completely ignored. Fortunately, the Government saw sense and adopted it and made it into a Supplementary Order Paper which has been included in the bill. So good on them for doing that because it is a very good move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think the issue for me in this bill is very well highlighted by Andrew Bayly under his Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 477, which was unsuccessful. The investment funds under the PIE rates\u2014and Dr Deborah Russell highlighted this, that, you know, our tax system is based on self-assessment. That\u2019s true. It is up to those taxpayers to self-assess and to get the right rate. But, however, then to take the next step and say that if you get it wrong, that\u2019s your problem, well, that would be true, but if you get it wrong in that you underpay, they do come after you. And there were 550,000 Kiwis who did underpay to the tune of $50 million. IRD, at this moment, are getting that money back. They\u2019re out there and they\u2019re going to be able to go back and get their money back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EHowever, the 950,000 Kiwis who overpaid, who paid too much\u2014and as my colleague Andrew Bayly quite rightly said\u2014and are on the wrong rate are people who are the on the bottom of the ladder and could actually do with this money, but they are not going to get it back. That is very unfortunate. The system\u2019s all there. All it needs is this SOP to have been adopted and put in this bill. In these times, these very times when COVID-19 is such an issue for us and is going to be very tough, particularly on the lower-income brackets, those people could have done with that refund, and they\u2019re not going to get it. And I think that that\u2019s very short-sighted on the part of the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know why they\u2019re doing that, when, on the other hand, they are announcing packages to help people. This would help people, a significant number of people, and would give them back what they actually deserved to have. They paid it in error. They made a mistake. Yes, they made the mistake. But those people that made the mistake the other way, they are being chased by IRD to get their money. The people that paid too much are not getting it back, and I think that\u2019s wrong. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022881de343c7c54ff98912606b9c4529d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022881de343c7c54ff98912606b9c4529d4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call\u2019s a split call\u2014Greg O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229f40cb127d5c4eb0a4b78dda80421258\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f40cb127d5c4eb0a4b78dda80421258\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think many of the speakers this morning have spoken and alluded to the current economic situation, and I think it\u2019s good that they are, because this will bring many New Zealanders who will be anxiously looking at their KiwiSavers a new realisation of what is actually going on in their portfolios. I think the timing of this bill is excellent, because as they readjust, as they become better informed, for many who will not even understand what a PIE is\u2014their portfolio investment entity\u2014all of a sudden it will become quite significant, particularly as incomes may start to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo this bill is timely, it is a good opportunity for people to ensure that they\u2019re not only aware of where they are with their investment portfolios but actually planning for the future. Therefore, I recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222eda7d8a0d7f44929477d1f2e7119e88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eda7d8a0d7f44929477d1f2e7119e88\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E If the House will indulge me, this is the first time I have spoken in the House in some time, and I do want to acknowledge the grave situation we face as a world and a country as coronavirus spreads. I simply want to say that we can help keep ourselves safe. I know many New Zealanders are undertaking significant efforts to do that. We do also have some of the most incredible doctors and nurses and medical professionals in the world, and I simply want to say that we back their efforts, we back those businesses who are trying to get through this, and we will indeed get through this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. The reason it is a good bill is because it does the kind of fixing up and remedying of little issues that can happen in the law that don\u2019t account for circumstances that we then see down the track. The particular circumstance which I want to focus on in this contribution is that of those people who, for reasons which are, fundamentally, unjust, have previously been prevented from accessing their KiwiSaver funds before they die. This is something that I don\u2019t think lawmakers had anticipated, but as it has played out, we\u2019ve been able to respond to it. Other contributions in this debate have talked about it, and the clear example that brought it to light, as is so often the case, was the advocacy of Joan Fairhall and Tim Fairhall. Tim, who\u2019s Down syndrome, is likely to live for less time than most people, and has feared that he would be unable to access his KiwiSaver funds that he has worked hard for many years to contribute to and to grow. This problem was made apparent to the lawmakers of this Parliament, and the lawmakers of this Parliament set about thinking about how we could confront that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI have had a small role in this in that when I saw that injustice, I quickly rang Joan and said, \u201CWell, let\u2019s make a bill. Let\u2019s see what we can do to fix this, because it\u2019s just wrong.\u201D And I did draft a bill. Today, I\u2019m pleased that this piece of legislation will pass and will mean that my bill is no longer necessary. It means that we won\u2019t have to have the delay of waiting for my bill to be drawn from the ballot, and, in fact, people like Tim Fairhall will be able to make an early withdrawal of their KiwiSaver funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to commend the House on coming together to make this amendment, because too often in this Parliament, things can become about who thought of the idea first, and we can have silly games. Actually, let this be an example of how we can make faster change when we cooperate and take suggestions from both sides of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo, here today, we should acknowledge that for Tim this is important but also it is important for a wider group of people, because there are many in New Zealand who have life-shortening conditions who will, for some reason or another, want to access their KiwiSaver funds before they die\u2014to enjoy them. I think it\u2019s particularly useful that this bill doesn\u2019t preclude those people continuing to work while they use those KiwiSaver funds. There had been a suggestion from the Minister that they should have to retire from paid work in order to access their KiwiSaver funds. Of course, that would have been unjust because those of us who are going to live long lives\u2014or wish that we will live long lives\u2014are able to keep working once we access our KiwiSaver funds. Why should it be any different for people who, for circumstances outside of their control, may not be able to lead those long lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo I am pleased that Tim cannot only, under this bill, access his KiwiSaver funds and take that overseas trip that he so wants to take to see his brother and to see his friends but that also when he returns he can keep working at Countdown, because that gives him great purpose and great joy. Actually, from everything I\u2019ve seen and heard, it gives the people who shop at Countdown and his co-workers great pleasure and great joy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI also just want to take a moment to commend the role of the advocates in our community who make us lawmakers aware of these loopholes and problems in our law that sometimes we can be blind to. In this case, Tim has been his own wonderful advocate. His mother, Joan, has been absolutely ferocious and ongoing in her advocacy, and, to me, is a symbol of what a mother\u2019s love can achieve, which is not only highlighting the case of her son and the greater injustice that that presented but also making a change for many others by simply appealing to the compassion and empathy of lawmakers. I will never forget going down to the West Coast, a year and a half ago now, and spending a few hours before Christmas with Joan, Tim, and his dad, and the look in their eyes when they said to me, \u201CNicola, just do what needs to be done. Get this done. Make people listen. We need to make this change.\u201D Well, today, Tim and Joan, we\u2019re making this change. Parliament has worked together for the better of us all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022792e2b5b8fa644a39f6fd8b680ad4ad5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022792e2b5b8fa644a39f6fd8b680ad4ad5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00226688cb53def044058ef58d7443916eea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226688cb53def044058ef58d7443916eea\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere are parts of this bill that are well worthwhile, it has to be said. There are areas where the bill allows greater use of better electronics and databases by the Inland Revenue Department. It allows the modernisation of tax compliance. While that does create problems for some people who feel left behind by technological change, it also means that New Zealand and its taxation system are moving forward to a more efficient and more productive future. That is well and good. There are also changes being made to KiwiSaver that, as the previous speaker, Nicola Willis, explained very well, will make that scheme a more accommodating and compassionate scheme\u2014once again, much better for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut I oppose this bill on behalf of ACT because, unfortunately, all of those changes are ultimately putting a band-aid on a huge problem. The problem is that our taxation system\u2014while the introductory statement on this bill talked about maintaining our broad based-low rate taxation system, the truth is that we have a tax system that is vastly more complex than it needs to be, and the costs of that are threefold. First of all, by having four different rates of taxation and a different company rate\u2014that\u2019s five rates and the same rate for trusts\u2014we spend most of our time in the Finance and Expenditure Committee trying to design rules to try to stop people from shifting income between different tax years and different entities to minimise their taxation. That is the administrative and compliance costs on the part of the Government and the taxpayer, respectively, that we impose on this country as a Parliament by maintaining a system with four different tax rates on income for individuals and a fifth rate for companies. It needn\u2019t be so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe second cost that is imposed by this overly complex taxation system is that we send a message that can be best summed up as tall-poppy syndrome in the tax code. We tell children in New Zealand to work hard, pay attention in school, do their homework, get qualified, be diligent, and be nice, in order that they can earn more money. And then this Parliament turns around and says that the consequence of that, when it comes to taxation, is that if you start earning more, your tax rate on income will be more than tripled, from 10.5 percent at the bottom to 33 percent at the top. The contradictory message that this Parliament sends to New Zealand, with an overly complex taxation system, is a cost that we will never be able to estimate, but we know it\u2019s large.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe third cost that this five-rate taxation system imposes is that it makes us uncompetitive as a country. New Zealand is now the most highly taxed nation in the Asia-Pacific region. I know members on the left wing of politics love to compare us with low-growth economies in Europe\u2014then we don\u2019t look so bad. But in the Asia-Pacific region, where New Zealand belongs, we have the highest amount of tax, relative to the rest of our economy, of any other country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo this Parliament is doing well by introducing some modernisation measures, some digitisation, and a little bit more compassion in KiwiSaver. That is laudable. But we are failing to address the real issue of an overly complex structure of tax that has three major costs for New Zealanders and makes us all the poorer. That\u2019s why the ACT Party opposes this bill, because we need to do better. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u002278b8205fde994b65bec0320b4421610d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278b8205fde994b65bec0320b4421610d\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a brief call on this bill. Look, the KiwiSaver aspect of it is a fantastic scheme started in 2007 under the previous Labour Government, and it is time to have a review and a bit of a tidy up of that scheme. So this bill certainly looks at that and we\u2019ve heard a lot of those aspects articulated from various speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThe second key point that I\u2019d like to touch on is the aspect around student loans, treating overseas-based borrowers who are unable to meet the payment obligation as a result of serious illnesses or disabilities as physically in New Zealand so that their loans would not be subject to interest. This is common sense and it\u2019s about having respect for people and their individual situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the work that the Minister of Revenue, Stuart Nash, and the Finance and Expenditure Committee have done on this. I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022 data-id=\u00223367b5fc18d040d4a0995e21ed169d11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223367b5fc18d040d4a0995e21ed169d11\u0022\u003EIAN McKELVIE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s ever a pleasure to take a call on a tax bill, but it is a pleasure to take a call on the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill. But I wanted, before I started, to just make a comment or two on one or two of the other contributions that have been made this morning, because I find them rather interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI, interestingly enough, agreed with a lot of what David Seymour said. But, unfortunately, what he said had no relevance to this bill at all, and I think that\u2019s the challenge we\u2019ve got. The bill, really, is about some specifics in the tax system, and I think that\u2019s what we need to be addressing here. His comments were way outside the scope of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI also wanted to comment briefly on the speech of the Hon Shane Jones. He talked about the capricious actions of the last Government. So I took the opportunity to look up what \u201Ccapricious\u201D actually meant, and I thought, \u201CWell, he\u2019s really spent two minutes talking about himself.\u201D\u2014and, in fact, I think that\u2019s all he did talk about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EFinally, I wanted to make a comment on the chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s comments, because this is one of the few sectors of our economy that, effectively, brings their own bills to the House. In other words, Inland Revenue (IR) bring their own bills to the select committee and their own challenges and the problems that they\u2019ve unearthed. They\u2019re very seldom\u2014other than, of course, for David Seymour\u2019s comments a few minutes ago\u2014the bright ideas of members of Parliament or Ministers because, effectively, the Inland Revenue come across problems and they come across them frequently and they have to resolve those problems. We have around four of these bills that come through the House on an annual basis, and numerous other bills related to the taxation department.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI totally agree with David Seymour: it\u2019s hugely complicated. Understanding some of these bills is hugely complicated as well. But, none the less, they get a result that I think effectively achieves something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just want to comment briefly on the IR\u2019s Business Transformation process, because it affects this bill, particularly with relation to the KiwiSaver and student loans scheme. But it\u2019s also having a massive effect because we have a penchant in Wellington for introducing technology at a rate much greater than some of us can pick up. Again, that\u2019s happened with the transformation scheme, and I get many people coming through my door and accosting me in the street, in fact, about the fact that they can no longer talk to a human being at the IR offices, and that\u2019s a challenge in itself. The second thing is they can no longer walk in there with cash or cheque and pay them. For some people, that is intimidating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI know it\u2019s a challenge we have with many of the bills that come through this House, because we are moving to an area of new technology, and, frankly, if I could understand it, I\u2019d like it. When I can\u2019t understand it, it frustrates me, and I feel like throwing the thing at the wall. But that\u2019s where a lot of people are at. That\u2019s where this bill is at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI just wanted to very briefly speak about the issue that Nicola Willis raised earlier, because it is one of the few times where you see a very good change made to a bill as a result of submissions to a select committee, and that was with respect to Supplementary Order Paper 293, which allows people with life-shortening measures to withdraw KiwiSaver earlier. I think that was pretty cool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6c42c44-3622-4c9c-98b8-793fb5ec15cc\u0022\u003EI think the rest of this bill has been very well covered by the earlier speakers in the House and that is all I wish to say in my contribution to the bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00222e2e545a802548a5a7a5ac19e4b71239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e2e545a802548a5a7a5ac19e4b71239\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In times of uncertainty, that the globe is currently facing, it is, I guess, for my part at least, quite pleasing when we as the House can come together and, I guess, speak with a unanimous voice in support of particular measures, particularly when it comes to financial certainty. And, albeit for one member, I\u2019m pleased that this House is almost unified in our approach, that we will all be voting to support the Taxation (KiwiSaver, Student Loans, and Remedial Matters) Bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the efforts of the Hon Stuart Nash, and I really actually want to also acknowledge the stewardship through the select committee by Dr Deborah Russell. We have seen some fundamental changes to this bill since it was first presented to us in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, of which many of the members in this Chamber this morning have alluded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis bill brings clarity. It brings certainty. In matters that are so significant to all of us, that impact taxation and our fiscal security, this is the kind of clarification, simplification, that everybody is calling for right now. So, without further ado, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c55c2e04180e4090ae3c54e91f9b9f6b\u0022\u003ELocal Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7e57d3904d341b8b5279e25faa050d3\u0022\u003EInstruction to M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022aebee08100e040a494808b37b857d36e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aebee08100e040a494808b37b857d36e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Local Government: I move, That the Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 29 June 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6e9e1bcdb9a488cb5a4888e09815ce0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6e9e1bcdb9a488cb5a4888e09815ce0\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The reason why I hesitated to rise to my feet was because I was quickly looking at my diary and trying to count out how many weeks the select committee then had to consider this bill. There has been scant information coming from the Government over what the select committee period is, so I\u2019m feeling very confident that there are members sitting behind me who are in fact making those calculations at the moment, because one thing we do need to be assured of in the select committee consideration of this Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill is that there is a good and thorough consideration of the issues that are flagged and raised in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo, first of all, to summarise, if you like, the provisions of this bill, the purpose and intention of this bill, according to the Minister Nanaia Mahuta, is to support the development of and provision of housing on M\u0101ori land, modernise the rating legislation affecting M\u0101ori land, and support M\u0101ori land development. Another provision in the bill is that the ratepayer for multiple rating units of M\u0101ori freehold land\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254186e6d4f764fb4b538cbd563acb37f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member, but we are just speaking to the referral motion. If the member could slide on to that debate, which we\u2019re on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e239d715c9e4a38bf19b3a44059b7a3\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was attempting to give a little bit of context as to why the National Party is so very concerned that a decent period of consideration is allowed for this bill. So without delving too deeply into the detail\u2014and I respect and understand your ruling, Madam Speaker\u2014there are within this bill a number of considerations that need to be given some considerable time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe bill is, effectively, about calculating rates, amalgamating rating units for the purposes of rating, allowing for separate title on multiple dwellings on M\u0101ori land so that families can access rate rebates. This is all good stuff, if you like, but it raises so many questions. And some of those questions are: is this bill not\u2014and it is something that I will tease out in further debates\u2014addressing the end of the problem of development of M\u0101ori land? And if I go back briefly to the purpose of this bill\u2014supporting the development of and provision of housing on M\u0101ori land\u2014the question is: if that is the purpose of the bill, then I would have thought that the rating mechanism, purportedly to achieve those aims, should be undertaken at the very end of all the other processes of addressing the underlying issues that surround this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb71bf211ba6472fa8add055379274c1\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c37d81132ce4cd397b74e5a0c87271e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: If the point of order is that the member still isn\u2019t addressing the bill, that\u2019s my determination and I\u2019d really encourage the member to at least make a passing reference to the bill. But that won\u2019t be enough to satisfy the requirements of the debate. The referral motion is what we\u2019re talking to, not the contents of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220433aaaee8c64dc4a760528dec562a1f\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Just, point of order, if I may.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022369daa05c7af4009afb356643d39a5e9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: It might be better if you reflect on whether that\u2019s a good idea first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ff73b43baa443859cf24579121626e4\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, clearly it isn\u2019t. So I will carry on, thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e982483af91f4f7ab731b3c37100c807\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6678860449b446fb01b6d8627281e1a\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s wonderful to have such a good understanding of the processes of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo the referral motion provides for a report-back date of 29 June this year and, as I said when I got to my feet, it just seemed to be a period\u2014did anyone do the numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc28f805d5664498b76756501c8e7270\u0022\u003EMaureen Pugh\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did: 109 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eabe4579ab440b99afaec31bf1568d8\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: 109 days\u2014and I guess that\u2019s full days. And, if I could, I would calculate how many weeks that is and how many parliamentary sessions that is\u2014therefore, how many opportunities for the committee to undertake the type of work that it does post the referral of the bill to the committee. It is around the calling for submissions, and the committee will need to give very good thought. This is a multi-faceted bill, and the committee will have to give serious consideration of whether or not to invite submitters\u2014and that happens occasionally in select committees. It has identified that there are certain groups who have a particular interest in the subject of the bill. Should the committee write to them and invite them to come and brief the committee and make a submission on that aspect of the bill? Should the committee then open for general submissions and put a notice out, in the way that we do these days, inviting submissions from, perhaps, the general public and other interested people\u2014experts, legal experts? We are often getting the Law Society making a submission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe consideration of this in what is quite a complex bill is going to take some time and with only 109 days, which you condense that down to a number of times the committee sits, then the question has to be raised and should be raised by the Opposition: does that give due consideration to the matters being raised? I hoped I\u2019m not straying too far from\u2014good, it\u2019s very good; we\u2019re getting nods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo that is a concern because, given the scope and nature of this bill, it could well be that the sheer volume of submissions being made from Northland, for example; from Gisborne, for example\u2014any place around New Zealand where people have a strong view and wish to have their say on the bill\u2014the committee should then discuss and determine whether it travels to those places to hear the submissions and, in fact, with the ratepayer, meet with the councils. One can\u2019t just consider a rating bill, in my humble view, without talking to ratepayer groups, and there might be all sorts of ratepayer groups who have a view on this legislation\u2014proposed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe local authority elected members will no doubt have a view on it as well, as will the view of council officials be very valuable in this because they are the ones who enact the rating legislation. What is the impact is part of the committee\u2019s consideration, which is why I\u2019m speaking to the 109 calendar days available. Why it\u2019s relevant to that point is the impact of some of the provisions: having separate rating units, which will allow for rates rebate, amalgamating dwellings into one rating unit to be rated as a whole\u2014what is the implication for other ratepayers on that in the committee\u2019s consideration during the select committee period? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo National is of the view that the full six-month select committee process is needed. It might be that the committee will want to travel, and it might be that that travel has to occur on several different occasions, and there are a number of times over the years when a select committee has determined to travel all over New Zealand to hear submissions. Now, I wouldn\u2019t anticipate this to be exactly the case in this bill, but certainly I would anticipate that there might be a couple of occasions where the committee can and should travel, particularly in our new normal environment, where travel could well become a little more challenging for submitters to come to Wellington to submit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI am of a view that if somebody can travel and wants to travel to be heard in person, then the select committee should make every effort to bring that about and make that possible for people. If, for example, a member of the public or ratepayer group or a mayor or anyone\u2014iwi\u2014wish to be heard in person, and it will challenge them to travel the length of the North Island or the length of the South Island to come to Wellington, then it behoves the select committee to make every effort to travel to them. All of this to be condensed into 109 calendar days\u2014and I haven\u2019t had the time to calculate how many select committee days that is, but it is my strong view and the strong view of the National Party that this is a substantial bill. It does demand good, close scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u0022f717fa9be84942e4a5c8937fb496a3f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f717fa9be84942e4a5c8937fb496a3f9\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to briefly pick up some comments just to help alleviate the member who just spoke, the Hon Jacqui Dean, of any of the concerns that she may have had, particularly in respect to the ability to provide members who want to speak in respect to this bill, whether they have to meet in Wellington or outside. Helpfully, the referral motion before this House right now contemplates Standing Order 193, which enables meetings outside of Wellington to occur during sitting days, which is what this referral motion is requesting, so that we can ensure that the contributions of those that the member who just spoke in this House had concerns for\u2014that they may not be able to attend this House\u2014would be enabled to give their considered views in respect of this bill. It is a fundamental proposition that the Minister of Local Government has turned her mind to\u2014to enable the voices of those, in particular, that are impacted, which may be outside of this region\u2014that this referral motion directly is attributable to. So I hope that assists the member in this House to ensure that those concerns are met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00222a057c56d3e7402699021ecc5ecd8524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a057c56d3e7402699021ecc5ecd8524\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Denise Lee. Could I just remind the member that this is a really narrow debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6dba87505a242bf993763e2685bf9a3\u0022\u003EDenise Lee\u003C/span\u003E: Sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea77e66591f540c4ac9b779e0d1f35e7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: It doesn\u2019t deal with the contents of the bill; it just refers to the instruction to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u0022240e60506cb64f848f92b4813075bd98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022240e60506cb64f848f92b4813075bd98\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. So for those listening and/or watching, we\u2019re dealing with an instruction to committee, a referral motion. We would like to go on record here, from this side of the House, that we do not think that the report-back time frames should be shortened for the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee for this Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill, and that we don\u2019t think that the select committee should have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting. I personally just feel a little bit miffed at this particular motion because we\u2019ve been kicked back on my Education and Workforce Committee when we\u2019ve asked to meet during House sitting times because we think it\u2019s been appropriate and we haven\u2019t been allowed to, but yet we have this particular motion being put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EI would like to refer to the content of the bill, not for the sake of the content of the bill but in relation to how important I think it is that we don\u2019t try and fast track this. When we look at the regulatory impact assessment, it was very much noted there that some people weren\u2019t able to be consulted. So I think that there are going to be a significant amount of submissions. I think there are going to be cases\u2014even if not numerically, definitely in content\u2014where people have not had a chance to have their say. For instance, we know that farmers and general land owners weren\u2019t consulted in the impact assessment report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EThis is 9,800 M\u0101ori land rating units we\u2019re talking about. That\u2019s a lot. This is not a bitsy omnibus bill, and we have some questions that people may want to submit on, some issues that are of sizable significance\u2014for instance, the powers of the chief executive to potentially write off rates applying to non-M\u0101ori land as well. Is that an element of the bill that people may want to submit on? Is the shortened time frame the right way to go about this? Are we, in fact, in very unusual times here in Parliament and would people expect Parliament to deliberate and use its processes in a normal fashion and take its normal time frame, which, we know, everyone here in this House knows would be six months, not half the time? That\u2019s what we are making a stand on here on this side of the House. We\u2019re looking at half the time to take and debate and look at a bill that has some sizeable issues in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ESomething else that\u2019s been raised is implications to landowners whose land is under the national policy statement of indigenous biodiversity. What are the implications for them? Is it right that as a House we say, \u201CRight, well, we\u2019re facing lots of issues at the moment, not all of them parliamentary; many of them health. Is fast tracking anything in this Parliament the right way to go about it?\u201D I would argue no. I would argue that the New Zealand public want to see Parliament treat everything seriously and give it its due time frame. That also applies to MPs sitting when the House is sitting when, ordinarily, they wouldn\u2019t. They\u2019d expect select committees to behave in a very normal and process-driven fashion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EI may be a first-term MP and I\u2019m learning all the ways that select committees operate and how the processes\u2014all the ins and outs\u2014work, but in this particular bill I think it\u2019s a no-brainer, whether you\u2019re a first-termer or whether you\u2019re a senior MP. This particular bill\u2014with significant issues that have been highlighted as very potentially serious and contentious issues by different councils around the country; someone\u2019s even used the \u201Cracism\u201D word. This is absolutely a topic that should be given the correct and standard amount of time to be analysed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re very clear on this side of the House: it should not have a shortened time frame, it should not have half the time frame that we would normally take, and we should also not give the ability for the select committee to sit during the times that the House is sitting. They should undertake their normal procedures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a09a266100e4f1bb1a03e85f009a32c\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00222f6f0ae0cd0446aca2583e865e89abc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f6f0ae0cd0446aca2583e865e89abc3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve had a call in this debate. You only get one, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022a68b128d5c134dfbbfed6ba448674c0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a68b128d5c134dfbbfed6ba448674c0e\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now, National believes that the six-month, full select committee process is needed to hear all views and identify any issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ll give you four reasons. The first reason is that the consultation so far has not been enough. There has been limited consultation with local governments in the general election. If you look at the regulatory impact assessment, you\u2019ll find that the department acknowledges time constraints around effective consultation. The regulatory impact assessment notes that limited recent consultation with the local authorities on proposals has led to some assumptions around the cost assessments of some options. That is on page two of the regulatory impact assessment report. So the regulatory impact assessment also says that the rating outcomes of M\u0101ori land result from a complex interaction of five pieces of legislation. I know the scope of this legislation is limited, yet that method itself is very complex. So it involves five pieces of legislation\u2014three pieces of legislation under the Department of Internal Affairs, and the Local Government Act 2002, the rating act, and the Rates Rebate Act 1973.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a12b54a53ee4159912c6002ef3e1f02\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member. As I reminded the House earlier, this debate is about the instruction to the committee, not the content of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253ec0d373b0a4e85a3a7d9ff4799abf6\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I understand that. I\u2019m just trying to say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab98d9f33aa4de994b6b0d515ad3e23\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: So if you could refer to the instruction to the committee in your contribution, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d27cb17b95466283bfdb908ab167e4\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So this bill itself, in terms of scope, is limited. Nevertheless, it is important for us to have the full select committee process. As I said, the consultation process so far has been limited. Why? Because the data availability has been an issue to the department. So we do have rates records in different councils\u2014right\u2014but we do not have a national database. These councils or local authorities have their own rates records. While these are de-centralised, that\u2019s an issue. At the same time, these local authorities have different practices in terms of making these records or data available. So people will find it relatively easy to find the record about one particular or individual site, but it\u2019s hard to do a mass analysis. That is why, when the officials were doing the research, they found that it was hard for them to use mass analysis to support any particular finding or identified\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b51c4a0d69d42b4acfb972f859e5e5e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member again\u2014one final opportunity for the member to speak to the instruction to the committee, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a4ac0cd645d4fe7975a280b9504841b\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I was trying to say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ab1aacd1c74d298c04235e2ebf158a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I was listening to what you were actually saying; I have no idea what you were trying to say, but if you could now actually say some words which relate to the instruction to the committee, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e21bfff1804baaad1aadddca820029\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m trying to say that we need more time to do consultation because so far we haven\u2019t done enough consultation. That was what I\u2019m trying to say. That\u2019s why we need more time to consult people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ENow, if you read the regulatory impact assessment, you\u2019ll find that officials often refer to prior consultations. The \u201Cprior consultation\u201D means consultation for other bills, not particularly this bill. That\u2019s why we think we need more time, so that the committee would be able to do a better consultation process. That\u2019s why the committee needs more time to run the whole process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact assessment report itself says that the time frame for the consultation is inadequate and, therefore, the consultations are limited. Now, we have a second reason: the reason is we need to consider the implications of the bill to some people, or some actors, or some particular parties. So this bill could have some implications for general land owners. In the previous consultation we did not really have enough time to consult general land owners, and to have a shortened select committee process would limit our capability for a wider consultation. We may not have the opportunity to consult general land owners, or this bill itself may have major implications on them. For example, if rates write-offs on M\u0101ori-owned land occurred, well, this will be subsidised by general land owners, who will cover the costs of the write-offs to the councils. So the bill itself\u2014this is only one example; there are many other areas which would have implications on general land owners, and then if we do not have this full six-month select committee process, then we might not be able to finish this particular work. As I mentioned, the farmers and general land owners have not been properly consulted so far during the regulatory impact assessment process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe other thing is this bill\u2014the purpose\u2014is for the development of M\u0101ori land, but we may need to consider other issues which are related to the proper development of M\u0101ori land, and, also, we may consider what implications it may have on general land owners. I\u2019ll also mention that this matter itself is not really a very urgent matter. We do not see any particular reason why it should be rushed. As the officials have identified and have made clear, collecting rates on M\u0101ori-owned land has been a longstanding issue, a problem for councils and owners of M\u0101ori land. So the issue had been there for a long time. What\u2019s the rationale for us to rush and then finish quickly? It\u2019s not a very important issue that must be done within two or three months, otherwise we would have major consequences. But that won\u2019t happen, so why should we rush? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo these are the three main reasons, but there is one more reason I need to mention. That is that last week, I noticed that there was another bill where the select committee process was shortened. That was the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill. So I want to make sure that we do not fall into a habit of having a rushed process. We want to make sure that each bill would be able to have this normal standard\u2014you know, six months, full process. We\u2019re not saying that we have no exceptions. We can have exceptions, but we need to have good reasons for those exceptions. So that is why I believe that we, in this particular bill, cannot see any particular reason to justify a shortened, a truncated, select committee process. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00224032607736a04fdb8ca2a22773464407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224032607736a04fdb8ca2a22773464407\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224afb9e8d741741b69a5937191baf1b62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224afb9e8d741741b69a5937191baf1b62\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a short call on the debate on the referral of the Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill today. As we\u2019ve heard, the first reading of this bill took place in this House on 12 March and the report-back date is 29 June, so that does, from first reading to report back, give us a time frame of 109 days, or 15 weeks. So it\u2019s gone from the select committee process, which is normally around six months, and been nearly cut in half to just over three months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to refer to the Minister of Local Government\u2019s speech in the first reading debate, where she actually omitted giving any rationale for why there was going to be an instruction to the select committee for a shortened report-back time. It\u2019s hard to understand, without that rationale being given by the Minister, why we have to rush this particular bill through the parliamentary process. In fact, the same Minister, in Opposition\u2014Nanaia Mahuta\u2014said when we were debating the Te Ture Whenua M\u0101ori bill, and I quote, \u201CThere were issues around levels of participation and levels of real input and engagement into the process but also death by iteration in the legislative process.\u201D So the Minister opposed the rushed process while in Opposition but, now that she is in Government, is very happy to instruct the committee to have a shortened report-back time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIt makes no sense to rush this through the process, because there is no time constraint on this particular bill being enacted this year. I\u2019ll explain why: it\u2019s because in the local government environment in New Zealand\u2014and the Minister will know this\u2014the new financial year starts on 1 July. That\u2019s no surprise, because it\u2019s the same every year. Now, the local government process in setting its rates starts at the end of a calendar year. So when we get to the end of the calendar year, staff within a local council will be starting to pull together all of their deferred works, all of their planned maintenance, their upgrades. They will be looking at projects they want to fund, they\u2019ll be looking at debt servicing, and, as a result, they will pull together a draft annual plan. That happens at the end of a calendar year. So in the new year, that draft will go out to ratepayers for consultation, and the councils will then hear and read submissions, and, based on all of that, they will set the rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe rates are struck in time for the new rating year that starts on 1 July, so regardless of whether this bill has passed its third reading on 29 June or not, it is not going to be able to be considered by councils in time to strike the rates for the new financial year that they work to, which starts on 1 July. They simply won\u2019t have time to include all of the calculations that they\u2019re going to need to work around in terms of how the rates are going to be impacted on for other ratepayers as a consequence of this bill, because, as we\u2019ve already heard, this is going to increase the rates on other ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESo if there\u2019s no ability to influence the striking of the rates at a minimum at the end of this calendar year, or, as a maximum, the consultation period in 2021 that councils will go through, it\u2019s very difficult to argue that there\u2019s a time imperative that justifies instructing the select committee on a shortened report-back date. We\u2019ve actually got, if we are sticking to this time frame that\u2019s proposed, 25 sitting days\u201425 sitting days\u2014to consider all of the impacts of the rates implications across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe only rationale that does make sense is that this Government has sat on its hands for 2\u00BD years, and now, with an election looming, it\u2019s dangling carrots simply as a political ploy. There will be ratepayers who simply will definitely want to contribute to the debate on this. They will want to consider the bill, and they will certainly want to submit on it, and especially if their rates are going to increase as a consequence of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ENow, the committee deserves the time to accommodate hearings for those submitters, and we simply don\u2019t know what we don\u2019t know yet. I imagine there\u2019ll be organisations like Local Government New Zealand or SOLGM, the Society of Local Government Managers, that have expertise in this field that will have a huge contribution to make. They too deserve the time that is required to make considered submissions and to consult with their sector, because they won\u2019t, probably, make those submissions on their own; they will want to go back out to their membership, and that will take time. It is certainly going to take more than 25 sitting days in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI find it very difficult to find any rationale that justifies the instruction to the select committee that is going to consider the Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill to have a shortened report-back time. It is certainly not justified, and no rationale has been given by the Minister. I thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00223de938d7b466448494c84f17e1884bc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223de938d7b466448494c84f17e1884bc8\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (Whip\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f77724a82e17428687fe83bcbc96d2fb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002250fe598d6bd44b629cf3984d5b786b90\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Local Government (Rating of Whenua M\u0101ori) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 29 June 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002233cce08c68de40f89120c4aab8b25d88\u0022\u003EElectoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b362789b61041699277fd1a23d2e65a\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc70c7d6a321425ba02a9ba2994e6f59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc70c7d6a321425ba02a9ba2994e6f59\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 2 June and that the committee have authority to meet at any time, except during oral questions, while the House is sitting, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill now upholds the fact that our bill of rights, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, actually means something. Ten years ago, members opposite voted to remove the voting rights of prisoners on short-term sentences and were told at the time by the Attorney-General of the day that that would be inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. In light now of determinations by the High Court, the Court of Appeal, and the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal, this House is now going to reconsider the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd it would be a great pity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223128eaf3f0df4e14a4748cb827f99503\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Right in the middle of coronavirus!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a046528d6d0940f5b84597611dbbac18\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014if there were members opposite who thought that it was a trivial thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281e5a0b4011b4ffba15ba1f53aa7df41\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: The greatest priority the justice Minister has at this time is this\u2014is this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de654ca2df56408fa679afa6c89bc23f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that enacting law inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act was something we could be dismissive of. So we will hear the chirping from at least one member opposite\u2014he can carry on doing it\u2014but the reality is that what happened 10 years ago was an obscene act by those who voted for the change, and we\u2019re now putting that change back. It is about the integrity of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, so I am glad we are doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThere are a lot of things you have to do when you\u2019re in Government. Sometimes you\u2019ve got to do the immediate stuff, sometimes you\u2019ve got to do the very big stuff, and sometimes you have to do stuff that is principled and important. This is what that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1c2e9c47dd46d48d7a5df3b088091b\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Get a life!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e38dc712a90948a28642931d3c392188\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: And this is what that is. I\u2019m glad I have the life that I\u2019ve got, which is about being principled and being able to juggle the big things, the small things, and the principled things. The younger members opposite will have time to rehearse that. They\u2019ll have time to get used to it. They\u2019ll sit in their warm leather seats for a few more years yet, and maybe, if they\u2019re lucky, they\u2019ll get the opportunity to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis is about making sure that we better facilitate participation in the electoral system for people who have been sent to prison for a brief period of time. This bill actually does two things. It means that those sentenced to a sentence of imprisonment of less than three years\u2014therefore, those whose offending is at the lower end of the scale\u2014and who, at some point between one election and the next, are going to get out of prison have the right to choose the leaders of the country that they\u2019re going to be released as a free person into. And it does another thing, too. It says that, for those who are on longer sentences in prison, the Department of Corrections will facilitate their reinstatement on the roll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESee, the most insidious thing about the 2010 law change wasn\u2019t just the removal of the right to vote. I accept\u2014I accept\u2014that when it comes to those who offend criminally, those who offend and act against the standards of social conduct we expect, to the point where they are taken out of society and deprived of their liberty, there is an argument about how far you take that removal of their rights as a citizen. That is an arguable point, and we remove their liberty\u2014or, at least, we deprive them of their liberty\u2014they lose their right of freedom of movement and freedom of association, they have heavily limited rights of freedom of speech; they can write to Ministers and write to some others, but that is heavily scrutinised. So they lose a lot of rights, and it is right and proper that we debate that when people act antisocially and they offend against their community. But this is about saying to those who we know are going to be out of prison between one election and the next that they must have a right to have a say on who is going to lead the country and the community that they are going to be released into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe other thing the bill does is, as I say, allow those on longer sentences to be enrolled\u2014sorry, the point I was making was that the most insidious thing about the 2010 law change is that it did not just stop the right to vote; it actually forced those people to come off the electoral roll. And, of course, the nature of these things\u2014the nature of this community that goes to prison and comes back out again\u2014is they have much more pressing things to think about when they\u2019re out of prison, and they never go back on the roll. What was enacted in 2010 was a voter suppression measure\u2014a voter suppression measure\u2014which, in some parts of the world, is absolutely anathema; maybe in the southern states of the United States it\u2019s kind of popular, but it\u2019s not something we should tolerate lightly here, and that\u2019s why this bill is here. We\u2019re going to put back that right to vote because what happened in 2010 was unnecessary and it is undermining the integrity of our electoral system if those who actually ought to be voting once they\u2019re out of prison are set up in a system that makes it harder for them not just to vote but even to get on the roll, and we wanted to change that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting what the Waitangi Tribunal said when they considered the whole thing. They wanted all voting rights to be returned to all prisoners, and I don\u2019t agree with that, but they said that as a consequence of the 2010 law change, in 2018 M\u0101ori were 11.4 times more likely to be removed from the electoral roll as a result of receiving a prison sentence\u201411.4 times more than any others entering prison. So there is an obvious inequity there, which has led the Waitangi Tribunal to reach the conclusions that they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill is based on this basic principle: people who will likely be released, or who will be released, back into their communities during a parliamentary term should have the right to have a say on the Government and those who represent them in their communities. This will affect about 1,900 people, who will have their right to vote restored ahead of the 2020 general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI might add, too, just for the sake of completeness, that it is not every prisoner who is deprived of the right to vote. Those on remand continue to have a right to vote\u2014and remand prisoners now comprise about 40 percent of our prison population. We are an outlier in the developed world for the size of our remand prison population, and on the current trajectory we are told that, by 2025, 50 percent of our prison population could be remand prisoners. It would be an absurdity if you\u2019re on remand\u2014that huge chunk of the prison population get the right to vote. The Electoral Commission has to make sure that all the facilities are in place and they can vote, and those who are going to be out before the next election\u2014it could be only a month before the next election, it could be two and a half years before the next election\u2014they don\u2019t get to have a right to have a say on who\u2019s going to lead the country that they\u2019re going back into, whereas some of those on remand may actually, when they get their final sentencing, carry on. So there is an absurdity that has been introduced by that 2010 law. It was unnecessary and it should change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting that a number of submitters to the recent Electoral Amendment Bill\u2014now an Act\u2014raised this point, and they wanted that piece of legislation to cover this point off. It was out of scope, but many, many people considered it, and when a lot of people think about our electoral rights and our electoral laws, and they look at the disqualification provisions, they say that what is there is just not right and it should change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAs I said before, the other change the bill makes is to require the Department of Corrections to work with prisoners once they\u2019re eligible to vote and get their consent to enrol. So it\u2019s one of those release factors, at the point of release, and before they go on their way\u2014regardless of what else happens\u2014the Department of Corrections will now have a role to play in making sure the best is done to get them back on the roll, and they will have some powers to do that and to work with the Electoral Commission, and the Electoral Commission will have to receive the information from the Department of Corrections on that. That, I think, will address the residual issue that the Waitangi Tribunal raised, which is that the disqualification of prisoners on longer sentences is also problematic. I think the main thing is that if we strive to get them back on the roll once they are a free person\u2014once they\u2019ve been released from prison\u2014then I think we will be acting with integrity in relation to our electoral laws and our electoral system. The ex-prisoner would have to consent to enrolling. Some may not wish to enrol, and some will have fear for their lives and their families once they\u2019re released, and there\u2019ll be issues about whether they go on the confidential roll as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo all those issues will have to be resolved and sorted out, and this is about making sure that when we say we have free and fair elections, we are not unduly disqualifying those who should have a right to vote, that we\u2019re not unduly and improperly suppressing the right to vote for those who should, and can, vote and who wish to do so. So, on that basis, this bill will be considered by the Justice Committee\u2014the select committee process is very important\u2014but as I say, many members of the public have already had their say on this; they\u2019ve put in submissions, which is one of the reasons why I\u2019ll be moving, at the appropriate stage, for a truncated process for the select committee, but on that note I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022e116c57ef10941018027d699d6dea257\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e116c57ef10941018027d699d6dea257\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not going to say it\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. Just to reflect back my own thoughts to the Minister, we came into this Parliament together in 2011. I have no doubts at all that the Minister has got the will and the character and the belief in wanting to reform and make better our criminal justice system, and when we came into Opposition, with me as the Opposition spokesperson for justice, I made it very clear to him that if he brought thoughtful legislation to this House that was going to improve our criminal justice system\u2014and especially the way that victims and members of the public had to try and negotiate their way through it\u2014then we would support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EEven before, as a nation, we had the coronavirus to deal with, we felt very strongly\u2014and the reason why you heard my colleague Brett Hudson making very clear statements about it during the Minister\u2019s address\u2014that this is a complete and total waste of this House\u2019s time, bringing legislation into the House, especially at a time now that reinstates the right for prisoner to vote, when as a nation we\u2019re trying to deal with one of the most serious challenges that we\u2019ve faced arguably in a generation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffaa6bc55cc34ff0a2fc6945794b38a2\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a time to disregard human rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245077afb66534ccdbf2323924134ef40\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s very interesting that I hear Marama Davidson start to try and add her comments to the debate, because during that time when Brett Hudson was challenging around the necessity of having this bill in this House, it was Marama Davidson that was calling encouragement to the Minister, and I think that\u2019s very telling. I believe this is a Green Party bill that the Minister has actually had to bring to this House. And, in actual fact, I don\u2019t believe for one minute that he\u2019s talking about adhering to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act or the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal. If he\u2019s going to be a purist about that, then let\u2019s go back and have a look at a whole lot of legislation where the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act has been questioned in some of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESometimes this Parliament does legislate, sometimes there is tension between the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, but we decide in terms of the public interest that that\u2019s the best thing for us to do. That\u2019s what drove this decision, because to go to prison in New Zealand, you have to have been involved in some serious offending. You have to have been involved in creating more victims\u2014victims that will have their lives impacted for the rest of the natural lives. That\u2019s why you go to prison in New Zealand. When you go to prison in New Zealand, like the Minister said, you do give up some rights. You give up those rights of freedom of movement. You often give up the right\u2014or you have a protection order put in place that prevents you communicating or having access to the victim or the victim\u2019s families. And, actually, you give up a right that the rest of the law-abiding community enjoys, and that is the right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI do agree with the Minister that when a prisoner comes out of our criminal justice system, out of our corrections system\u2014I don\u2019t disagree with having them re-enrolled. I do disagree with the fact that he says that they lose the right when they come into either the remand system or our corrections system. In actual fact, many of them aren\u2019t enrolled. Many of them haven\u2019t even actually used or accessed that right that they have to vote. I disagree entirely with saying that we were out of kilter with the rest of the world in terms of our remand system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very simple. We decided, and the National Party was a big driver of this in Government\u2014we had a tragedy occur in our community and it was Christie Marceau. I don\u2019t know if members of this House remember that, but Christie was attacked and killed, stabbed to death in front of her mother, by an offender that was out on remand. And we took a decision as a country that we would tighten our rules around remand, because we felt that that risk was better managed inside our remand system, inside our corrections system, instead of allowing the risk to continue to sit inside the community. Community safety in everything that we do in this House and everything that we do in our criminal justice system must be a priority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Hon Kelvin Davis again, a man that I have enormous personal respect for. I\u2019d never challenge his integrity or his belief in what he\u2019s trying to achieve inside the corrections system itself. I do challenge the ideology in the approach that\u2019s being taken. I know that I attended the justice summit in the first year when the Labour - New Zealand First - Green parties formed Government. I do remember being in the room when there was a patched gang member with a long history of violence, who had obviously been inside our criminal justice system and was hailed as being an example of a victim that needed the support wrapped around them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI accept the fact that when they come into our criminal justice system, they should be rehabilitated. I\u2019m very proud as a Government that we spent a lot of money and made very heavy investments into our rehabilitation programmes inside our corrections service. I\u2019m proud of that fact. But I can say one thing: there\u2019s no way that a patched gang member like that with a long history of violence and intimidation is going to be rehabilitated inside our corrections system, unless it comes from here [Indicates the heart], unless he wants to, unless he actually wants to make the change in his life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI do believe, I 100 percent believe, that Bill English\u2014and I know that we use the term social investment. Not everyone entirely understands what that is. It\u2019s quite simply this. I just want to give you, share with you, a very personal experience of when the light bulb came on for me around social investment, and that was as a police dog handler working in Gisborne down on the East Coast, where we saw massive social issues around gangs and organised crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAs I was called out from home one night, a young guy, 17 years old, had broken into a car, had stolen some of the contents and run off. I tracked him with a dog and we caught him. We took him back to the police station; we had him in the charge room. In there there\u2019s a charge sheet that you have to fill out a box. Inside the occupation box, he put \u201Cunemployed\u201D. I said, \u201CBut that\u2019s not a job.\u201D He said, \u201CBut that\u2019s what my Dad does.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe light bulb, at that minute, came on for me, as he was a young guy that had been born into a gang household. So his mentor, the man that he looked up to in his life, was a patched Mongrel Mob gang member. His pathway was quite simply to go on to a Government benefit and to supplement the income off a Government benefit with crime, with burglaries, with selling drugs, with violence, intimidation, standover tactics. That\u2019s what his pathway was. It was already too late, when we\u2019re standing in that charge room\u2014he\u2019s in the criminal justice system. It\u2019s much harder then to turn him around and try and get him on to a better track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s much better for us, as a Government and a Parliament, to make the investment in his life\u2014maybe when he was a baby, with helping his mother with some training, with budgeting skills, helping his father to try and get out of the gangs and break that cycle. That\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about. That\u2019s what we believe in. Make no mistake, we firmly believe in going after the problem. You choose to be a gang member or a member of organised crime and inflict harm on our community and our country\u2014we\u2019ll come after you. Make no mistake about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ll see a determination of focus, if we are re-elected into Government, to make sure that we implement those types of policies, too. But I can tell you now that bringing this type of legislation into the House and using the time of this House, at a time when we are facing one of the biggest challenges that we\u2019ve had as a nation, to give prisoners back the right to vote\u2014something they weren\u2019t using themselves first, something I think that a victim of that crime would feel very strongly that that\u2019s an appropriate sanction to make, that that\u2019s an appropriate message to send to someone that\u2019s already been in the community and already created a lot of harm and created a trail of victims behind them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIt is disappointing. It is disappointing to see both Ministers sat in the House today\u2014I believe in what they want to try and achieve. I totally, absolutely believe it is misguided, that they\u2019re going down the wrong track. The reason why I believe that is because we\u2019re in the House debating this bill, giving prisoners the right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhy aren\u2019t we talking to real legislation, legislation that does reform our justice system, legislation that does make it easier for victims of crime to be able to navigate through it, or members of the public to understand it, or being able to lower costs to give people better access and more timely access to justice. Why are we not debating issues like that? Why have we\u2014I\u2019m sorry, the Waitangi Tribunal. I acknowledge and respect their findings on that. I don\u2019t agree with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe best thing, Kelvin, that you can do, or that M\u0101oridom can do, is look at ways that you can get into that young guy\u2019s life\u2014the young guy back in Gisborne, on the East Coast. How to get into his life with social investment. Invest early to get him off that track, to keep him out of the criminal justice system. That\u2019s the best thing that you can do. A victimhood approach will leave you trapped\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba6b8e26e1cb4e089d9e75904a459da4\u0022\u003EMarama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s listen to what you have to say about what M\u0101ori should do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b670b74aa449d7ad6f6de07ddc0335\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and bogged down in exactly the same position that we\u2019ve seen for decades, Marama Davidson. So instead of looking back, look forward\u2014look forward. That is the answer to the real issues that we face inside our criminal justice system. I\u2019m sorry, I cannot stand and support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u002248c5cc1cb6cf4b9589825612851c8061\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248c5cc1cb6cf4b9589825612851c8061\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member who just sat down, the Hon Mark Mitchell, is wrong. I never said that gangs were the victims. I did tell the story about a 10-year-old M\u0101ori boy from M\u0101ngere who was picked up by the authorities and sent to a boys\u2019 home in \u014Ctaki. His only crime was that he was born into a loving M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau that had too many children according to the State. He was picked up, taken from M\u0101ngere down to \u014Ctaki, where, for four years, he was removed from his family, was beaten, abused\u2014for the first time in his life, he told me\u2014and raped. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EFour years later, as a 14-year-old, he was put on a train from \u014Ctaki to Auckland. He got off at Auckland railway station, hadn\u2019t been in Auckland for four years\u2014left as a young boy, returned as a young teenager\u2014didn\u2019t even know his way home. The State did that to him. Two weeks after getting off that train, he joined a gang. The State did that to him. The State did that to this young M\u0101ori boy who had committed no crime; he was just born into a large M\u0101ori family, and the State thought that that wasn\u2019t good enough\u2014that they could look after this boy better than his loving parents. That boy joined a gang and then he went to prison subsequently. When I was talking to him as a 60-year-old man, 26 years out of prison, I doubt if that man had voted once in his life\u2014I doubt if he had voted once in his life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EI support this bill, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. It is the right thing to do. Better people than those members sitting opposite, such as the former Attorney-General, such as the Supreme Court, such as the Waitangi Tribunal, have said that it is the right thing to do. But they wanted us to go further and allow all prisoners to vote. The National Party wants no prisoners to vote. We think that we\u2019ve got the balance right\u2014that those people who are sentenced to three years or less, who will be released into society, should have the opportunity to vote for the people that are going to be running the country when they are released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis is all about the two legs of being in prison: rehabilitation, in the first instance, and reintegration. Now, you can\u2019t have one without the other, and for too long we\u2019ve had the rehabilitation\u2014we\u2019ve had the programmes, the drug programmes, and all those sorts of things, the anti-violence programmes, but we haven\u2019t done the rehabilitation very well. But we can\u2019t rehabilitate people once they\u2019re out of prison. That rehabilitation has to start when they\u2019re in prison. We want them\u2014and as part of our H\u014Dkai Rangi strategy for Corrections, one of the pillars is to prepare the foundations for participation in the communities. But you can only prepare them for participation in communities when they\u2019re there, when they are\u2014excuse the pun\u2014a captured audience. We have to work with them then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Andrew Little has said, when we put people into prison and we cut their right to vote, we take them off the electoral roll, then, basically, we are taking them off the electoral roll for life. It is very hard for them, because they have got other things on their mind other than voting. They don\u2019t trust the system that actually has taken the right to vote off them. They leave prison and they just carry on, and this is having a disproportionate effect on M\u0101oridom. As we\u2019ve heard, it is 11 times more likely that a M\u0101ori will be taken off the roll and not re-enrol, and that is a breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi articles 2 and 3. If we\u2019re going to stand in this House and say that we value Te Tiriti o Waitangi, then we actually have to live it. We have to stop creating these laws\u2014and one was created in 2010 by the previous National Government\u2014that disadvantage M\u0101ori. This disproportionately affects my people and our ability to engage in our government and our systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe member who spoke is right. You know, to go to prison, you have to have done something wrong. You have to have been involved in some serious offending. But the thing is that we want these people to be better people at the end of their sentences than they were at the start of their sentences, and if we subscribe to the theory that putting people into concrete boxes for three years and then telling them to come out at the end of it as better people, as cured, as well, we\u2019re just fooling ourselves. We have to actually help people and assist them to be better people so that they don\u2019t come out of prison and go on to reoffend and create more victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b43fdcb706c4bb7b2a23e8cb683f03f\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: We agree. I agree with you entirely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0e4c9d7d2f4261ad410df23108e544\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s saying he agrees with me, so agree with this bill that we have to help people while they are in prison\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223512b445b3574ab28a967342a2a4b901\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: It makes not one iota of difference, Kelvin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e65c15f047a4d9ea3abcc48ba03dbe2\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to come out and be better people. He says it doesn\u2019t make any difference. It does. We are helping people to engage in society. We are helping people to engage in their communities. We have to help people, and we know that the approach that the previous Government took\u2014to be punitive, just to continue punishing people, to make life harder for them, to not support them\u2014doesn\u2019t work. The re-offending rates under the previous Government were 60 percent after two years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EWe have upped the ante. We are addressing specifically M\u0101ori offending. The previous Government was criticised again by the Waitangi Tribunal for having no targets for M\u0101ori, for having no plan to address M\u0101ori reoffending, and this is just another example of the fact that they just want to throw people into concrete boxes for three years and then tell them to come out as better people. Then they throw up their hands in surprise when they see that people go on to reoffend because they haven\u2019t been supported, because they haven\u2019t been equipped with the tools and the skills and the ability to engage properly in society and our communities and be contributing members. You know, it can\u2019t be just hope and pray that people rehabilitate or reintegrate. We have to give them active support, not just wag the finger at them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThis bill, when it becomes law, will affect 1,900 people, and as Andrew Little has already said, around about 40 percent of our prison population are on remand. Those people can vote. But what happens when they vote? Then they\u2019re sentenced and they go away. They could go away for years\u2014when I say \u201Cgo away\u201D: go into prison. They could go into prison for years and have had an ability to influence the Government while they\u2019re inside, but those people who are subject to sentences of less than three years don\u2019t have that opportunity to vote for the Government who will be in power when they are released. That\u2019s just wrong. It\u2019s just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204cde1759dd348e88e3e5f3b22185c77\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Contradictory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228394c62f2293453db42a65b248c7ac1a\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is contradictory. We need to make sure that we give these people who are going to be released into the community after the next election the ability to have the right to say who is going to be the Government when they are released. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act says it. As I\u2019ve said, the previous Attorney-General has said it. The Supreme Court said this is the right thing to do. The Waitangi Tribunal has said it\u2019s the right thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe member who finished speaking says, \u201COh, I respect the Waitangi Tribunal, but I don\u2019t like this decision.\u201D I think this is more of that silly \u201Ctough on crime\u201D stuff that they do. We have to be smarter on crime. That rhetoric, that tired old rhetoric, hasn\u2019t worked. It hasn\u2019t worked around the world and it didn\u2019t work when they were in Government previously. We have to be smarter in the way we deal with the people who commit the crimes so that they leave prison and don\u2019t go on to commit other crimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EJust while I\u2019ve got a few seconds left, I do take issue with some of the rhetoric that the previous member who spoke is saying around\u2014he continues to say that Corrections is releasing people into the community. Corrections doesn\u2019t. The courts make the decisions to release people on bail, the Parole Board makes decisions to release people on parole, or they come to the end of the sentence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289e5d7589590481db7b57dc5ecf4f258\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re being told to do it, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6cd2407251c494ea48f459a034e12a0\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: And he is saying that we are told to do it. We cannot influence the judiciary, and they are misleading the House if they stand up and say this. We have not said it, and they are wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022fea249ad943a4a52b98e63f5fa377b55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fea249ad943a4a52b98e63f5fa377b55\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for an opportunity to speak on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. I find it deeply, deeply disturbing that we\u2019ve come down to Parliament this week, we\u2019re sitting in extended hours, and one of the top priorities for this Government is to ram through a piece of legislation before the election to give prisoners the right to vote. Here\u2019s a copy of the Order Paper for this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EDo I see anything to do with addressing the coronavirus crisis on here? No. What we see is we see: number one, the Appropriation (2018/19 Confirmation and Validation) Bill; number 2, the Abortion Legislation Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac9d6e3a7f7e494b823f235ce75842c9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! That is not in the bill. Speak to the bill or sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022693ab9c5fade413c93bfa1f821df9b6b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And then we get to this bill, which the Government is seeking to ram through before the election\u2014the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, which is designed to give prisoners the right to vote. I would have thought there were other priorities that this Government had. I would have thought there was other legislation which needed to be dealt with. But this is the piece of legislation the Government has decided to put through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is something which we will be opposing today. The Government has decided that not only will they seek to get this through under these circumstances but they have decided they are going to truncate the select committee process and have it done before the election so that it comes into effect before the 2020 election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201fc184b06bb4ddab9a3567a81b033d0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Shocking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fab5659d5924cddab0ee29928a079f4\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: That is something absolutely shocking, and, again, it comes back to this Government, which is disorganised. They announced this before Christmas. They could have put a bill before Parliament well before now and gone through the normal select committee process and actually allowed New Zealanders to put their submissions and actually be part of the debate. But instead, we\u2019re here having another truncated select committee process on another important piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis comes on the end of a long list of things the Government is doing, which shows that they are soft on crime. They voted against Alastair Scott\u2019s legislation to put in place drug testing. They\u2019ve been soft on drugs. They\u2019re putting a referendum to the public on marijuana. We\u2019re now not even allowed to call prisoners \u201Cprisoners\u201D. What\u2019s the new name for them? They\u2019re called clients\u2014clients. No, they\u2019re not even allowed to be called prisoners any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220729e3242be34560bacd00f50c0848f7\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re crims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480541768bed41d3a5400e32e06c3764\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re criminals. They\u2019ve broken the law\u2014they\u2019ve broken the law\u2014and to go to prison, it\u2019s not just some sort of light sort of thing they\u2019ve done. It is a serious crime that has to be committed to go to prison. On this side of the House, we believe that when someone commits a crime worthy of going to prison, there are rights which should be taken away from them during that time, and one of them is the right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister talk about human rights and talk about the rights which are limited when someone goes to prison. If they are going to be consistent on the issue of human rights, then they should be consistent in allowing prisoners to have access to all their rights, whether that\u2019s freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to write to whoever they wish to write to, ring up whoever they want to ring up. But that\u2019s not what they\u2019re saying. They\u2019re simply going to say\u2014they\u2019re going to pick and choose and say they\u2019re going to have their right to vote restored back to them. But not only that, they\u2019re going to push this through prior to the election as one of their top priorities, using up parliamentary time when there are so many other issues that we could be dealing with as a Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOne of the things which is so often left behind in these debates is the rights of victims. We talk about prisoners\u2014or clients, as we\u2019re now meant to call them, but they\u2019re actually criminals. We talk about criminals. We talk about them\u2014we talk about their rights, but what about the rights of the victim? What about the rights of the people who they have hurt, whether that\u2019s sexual offending, whether it\u2019s aggravated robbery, whatever the crime might be? Where are the rights of the victim and where are they being considered in this piece of legislation, because I don\u2019t see them anywhere in this piece of legislation? I ask victims of crime to write in to the select committee and talk about their situations and their experiences and how they see this as another slap in the face by this Labour - Greens - New Zealand First Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First\u2014I\u2019m looking forward to hearing Mr Darroch Ball. It looks like he\u2019s about to take a call. He\u2019s getting very, very ready. He\u2019s not happy to be voting for this. It\u2019s not the kind of thing that he came to Parliament to support, but he\u2019s about to stand up and take a call. He\u2019s going to take a call and swallow another dead rat. Well, New Zealand First needs to tell New Zealanders what they got in exchange for voting for this piece of legislation. There would have been a deal done. It may have been in a vape-filled room or a smoke-filled room\u2014I\u2019m not sure what happens on the Government side of the benches these days\u2014but he should stand up and be open and honest and transparent with New Zealanders as to what deal was done to get their support for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo the National Party will not be supporting this piece of legislation. We will not support this Government\u2019s continual soft-on-crime attitude to New Zealanders\u2014soft on crime, soft on criminals\u2014and the consequences. They ignore the victims of crime, who are hurt on a daily basis. So I stand, on this side of the House, proudly voting against this bill, but also noting that there is one part which we do agree with: for those prisoners, when they do leave, there should be the ability for them to actually be re-enrolled, and that process should be made easier, and not just for those prisoners who are leaving after a sentence of three years or less but for those who have been there for a lot longer. That process does need to be tightened up. It should be made easier so that they can be re-enrolled automatically and actually be able to get back and vote and be part of the democracy of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI do fully agree with them on that, but whilst in prison\u2014whilst in prison\u2014some of their rights are taken away, some of their rights are limited, and this is one of those rights which should be. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022870c3a5677f84b5ea5a3f23b85ab2c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022870c3a5677f84b5ea5a3f23b85ab2c02\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not entirely sure where to begin, replying to that speech. I think that Mr Bennett would have done a much better job, and I\u2019m not sure why he didn\u2019t stand up for the second speech from the National Party, being the spokesperson for corrections. It\u2019s pretty weird from this side. I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s some internal dynamics going on over there at the moment, but what I do know is that over the seven minutes that Mr Brown spoke, I\u2019m not exactly sure he made it quite clear why they\u2019re opposing this bill. The first thing that he spoke about for two minutes, and so did Mr Mitchell, was COVID-19. He stood up and he started talking about the Order Paper. He started talking about the Order Paper and nothing about the bill\u2014nothing about the bill itself at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo why are they against it? Well, the one thing that I have to say to Mr Mitchell and Mr Brown is that\u2014I don\u2019t know if they recall\u2014this issue has already gone through the Supreme Court. It has gone through the Supreme Court, and it ruled in favour of this, Mr Mitchell\u2014and it ruled in favour of this, Mr Mitchell. But they seem to clearly ignore that that actually even happened. They think that they are the authority on what is right or wrong in this country, not the Supreme Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWhat does Mr Bennett have to say about that\u2014what does Mr Bennett have to say about that? Not only that, but it\u2019s a matter of principle. Is that right, Mr Bennett? Is it a matter of principle, Mr Bennett? So we\u2019ve got Mr Mitchell and we\u2019ve got Mr Brown standing up and talking about this being a matter of principle\u2014that prisoners, when they go to prison, should lose their rights, and of course they should, in some areas they do. They lose their right for freedom of movement, right? They\u2019re standing up and they\u2019re lecturing us about this being a matter of principle, being tough on crime, and ensuring that any offender, and any prisoner, should lose the right to vote\u2014should lose the right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EBut what confuses me is that when this law came in, this was done not by a Government bill, when the National Party was in Government; this was accomplished by a member\u2019s bill, when the National Party was in Government. The Minister of Corrections at that point in time, I believe, was Judith Collins. Now, I don\u2019t know\u2014and who was the Minister, at that point, of Justice, Mr Bennett? Do you recall? Because no Minister who was in Cabinet since 2008, at that point during the term, put this bill forward, or this concept forward, as a change in the law. The only way that this actually happened was by pure luck. It was plucked out of a member\u2019s ballot. So how important was it, Mr Bennett? How important was it that the National Party stands by their principle about prisoners not having a vote and rights for the victims and, you know, all the hoopla that they\u2019ve been hearing from Mr Brown and Mr Mitchell this morning, but they couldn\u2019t even be bothered putting it through as a Government bill? Where\u2019s the seriousness for that? Where\u2019s the principle standing behind the principle of that, Mr Bennett? No answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238637203ba9743199cd4762707259bb0\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the member support this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7e312efd7c4f1f839f62adbc61d2e6\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: We support this bill, Barbara Kuriger, from the fact that we\u2019re serious about rehabilitation and reintegration. You know, we got a lecture on that side of the House from Mr Mitchell about social investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s one sure-fire way of ensuring that a convicted criminal who is released into society goes back down that path, is forced down that path\u2014when they are not given the vote when they\u2019ve been sentenced to prison for fewer than three years, and cannot vote for the executive of the country, and the community, that they\u2019re going to be going back into within three years. Not only that but we\u2019re changing what the National Party put in\u2014which was that they couldn\u2019t even be enrolled to vote. So if you want to isolate people that come out of prison, if you want to isolate them even more, and force them down the pathway of criminality once again, one sure-fire way of doing that is not letting them vote and not enrolling them to vote. That is what the National Party is wanting us to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s get one thing straight. This is not a change. This is not so much a change in legislation; it is going back to a status quo. This was the status quo for 17 years. In 1993, we had the rewrite of electoral law, for MMP, which was passed, by the way, by a National Government as part of the Electoral Act 1993. Back then, prisoners could vote as long as they had not been sentenced to life in prison, preventive detention, or more than three years in jail. So it was the status quo for 17 years, for successive Governments, and all of a sudden the National Party want us to believe that they found their principles two years into their first term, not as a Government but, by luck, as a member\u2019s bill\u2014by luck, as a member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo the question really that needs to be answered from that side of the House is: why was that? If it was a matter of principle, why was it not one of the first items on the Order Paper for National in 2008? Why was that? Paul Quinn was the member who was in charge of the member\u2019s bill, and if it was such a great idea and he pitched it to Cabinet or to his caucus colleagues, obviously they didn\u2019t think it was that important, so they told him to put it in a member\u2019s bill. That\u2019s the question that Mr Bennett needs to answer when he gets up\u2014I\u2019m not sure he will. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022960e9bd873be41faabf29cd0700707ca\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Say why you\u2019re supporting the bill. Come on, mate; say why New Zealand First supports the bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11a012f323a49ca8f0e83e9d13dc421\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you see, Mr Bidois, the fact is that we understand on this side of the House that if someone is sentenced\u2014first of all, if you haven\u2019t been listening, this is going back to a status quo; back to a status quo. It is about reintegration and rehabilitation. People who are sentenced to prison for fewer than three years need to be able to ensure that they belong to the community that they go back into. What they want is to belong to the community they go back into, and have ownership within the community. And the one way, the foundation of that, is ensuring that they have the ability to vote and enrol to vote, and this is what this bill is doing. This is why we are supporting this bill. Not only that, but this isn\u2019t a grand change in things. It\u2019s not a huge step. This is allowing a thousand or more prisoners to be able to vote and enrol. The vast majority of prisoners who are in prison still will not be able to vote because they have been sentenced for greater than three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EWe believe that this is a balance. As Minister Davis said, this is a balance between ensuring that we hold people to account, that we do restrict the rights of those people who won\u2019t be integrated back into society any time soon, but also that we ensure that rehabilitation and reintegration is of priority and falls in line with the social investment approach that they harp on about all the time\u2014about ensuring that people don\u2019t go back and re-commit any crimes, and ensuring that they do belong to the community, and one way of doing that is ensuring that they vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pleasure to stand on behalf of New Zealand First and support this Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. It strikes a good balance in moving forward, and we commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00228d47b18e1d6849e0969eee31370e807a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d47b18e1d6849e0969eee31370e807a\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to take a call on this Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. The Minister of Justice, Andrew Little, wants us to accept another short-on-logic, indefensible law change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up on the comments of Kelvin Davis, who spoke earlier, saying he thinks we\u2019ve got the balance right. I say: the balance right for who? Has the Minister, and has Kelvin Davis, sought to get something back from the victims of these criminals in terms of the balance\u2014do they think the balance is right in this piece of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EThis Government does not believe that people are capable of committing crimes. It believes that people who commit crimes didn\u2019t really mean to commit crimes, that it was a mistake, and that to label them criminals is to shame them. This Government\u2019s proposal is that we change the name of criminals to men in our care, or clients, because to label them as criminals is to stigmatise them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EIt would be not a surprise to anyone if this Government was to then turn to the victims of crime and chastise them for stigmatising men in our care by laying criminal complaints against them. This is the newspeak nightmare George Orwell foretold in his famous book, Nineteen Eighty-Four. The term \u201Cmen in our care\u201D is Orwellian, and with this newspeak, this double-speak, this move to destigmatise crime, they are now asking the public to accept giving these men in our care the right to vote whilst they are in care facilities, which we in National, and New Zealanders, call prisons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EIf my tone sounds mocking it\u2019s because this proposal to allow prisoners the right to vote deserves nothing but contempt. It deserves contempt because law-abiding New Zealanders, New Zealanders who play by the rules, who don\u2019t commit crime, find themselves the victims of crime from the very people this Government now labels clients in an effort to not hurt feelings. Feelings is what this Government is about. And facts don\u2019t care about this Government\u2019s feelings. The fact is that a person, or a client, or, in real-speak, a criminal who earns that prison sentence has committed a serious crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EA person doesn\u2019t go to prison for petty misdemeanours. They go to prison for committing serious crimes against law-abiding New Zealanders. They include serious drug dealing, family violence, street violence, robberies, fraud, sexual violence, child sex abuse. And here we have the Minister of Justice, the Hon Andrew Little, worried that these criminals can\u2019t vote whilst in prison\u2014sorry; whilst in the Minister\u2019s care. Well, the day these criminals dealt hard drugs to school kids, the day they bashed their wives, the day they punched over some guy in the street, the day they decided to sexually assault a woman, the day they put their hands on a child inappropriately is the day they gave up their right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EMake no mistake\u2014the right to vote is an undeniable mainstay of our democracy, of our freedom. It is a solemn right that is conferred to every law-abiding citizen of age. And why? Because law-abiding citizens, good New Zealanders, will choose people who will pass good laws to enable them to live productive, safe lives for themselves and for their families\u2014lives free from violence, street violence, robbery, sexual violence, and child sex abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019m not surprised by the efforts of this Government to destigmatise crime or that they would want to give the vote to criminals in prison. This is a Government that is determined to undermine our voting process. To propose that men and women who have committed serious crimes, crimes that have resulted in their rightful removal from society in order to serve out their sentences, be allowed to choose people to represent them in Parliament is a slap in the face to the victims that these men in care, these clients\u2014these criminals\u2014have offended against. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EOur victims of crime, good people, New Zealanders who have had their lives horribly impacted by people who are serving time in prison, want justice. They expect their offenders to be punished. Punishment is a word that this Government is at pains to avoid as though punishment is a bad thing. Well, tell that to the victims of your clients\u2019 crimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI challenge the out-of-touch Minister to go to those victims and to present in front of those victims, the advocacy groups, and explain to them why their offenders should retain the right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EJust as those that criticised the good law we enacted while in Government to suspend the right to vote as a prison sentence was served will also not front\u2014no, critics of our good law will pontificate from their places of sanctuary, their crime-free places, about the rights of prisoners while they studiously ignore any consideration of the rights of victims to have their offenders appropriately punished. And there stands the stark contrast between us on this side and the crime apologists in Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First. What\u2019s all the more shocking is that a party that claims to be New Zealand First is now also the party of criminals first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EWe are adamant that crime shouldn\u2019t pay, and that\u2019s what also distinguishes us from this Government. They believe a criminal should vote, that we should find every means not to punish them with imprisonment, and that if we just feel more, then everyone will change their ways. This Government believes that crime should pay, that there should be no stigma to it, that if only victims were more understanding of why the assault that happened to them happened\u2014about why they were bashed or robbed\u2014and if they could only understand why the clients that committed these crimes should not be in prison or should be allowed to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EWe believe New Zealanders should be able to live productive, crime-free lives. New Zealanders should have faith in our justice system, and when predators seek to harm, they are put out of society\u2019s way for a period of time until they learn that crime doesn\u2019t pay and that you forfeit your right to vote whilst you are in prison. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022b89e47c4baed46d0aae7b32bf669964d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b89e47c4baed46d0aae7b32bf669964d\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m really proud to stand and rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. I think the best thing for all of us is to completely ignore the previous speaker\u2019s entire speech that was just laid on the floor. Most of it was an incredible narrative of mistruths and absolute lack of understanding of why this is a good thing to do for the safety of communities and to ensure that we are a Government that upholds the rule of law. A healthy democracy is one that understands that we all need to be engaged as much as possible, that every single community and group and individual needs to be encouraged and invited to engage in our democratic processes, and that de-humanising people, through removing in an undue process their democratic rights to vote, does not lead to a healthy democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe understand that when people have committed a crime they will lose certain rights. The Ministers on this bill have already referred to those rights, such as losing freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, and so on and so forth. The worst thing that we can do is to continue to distance, marginalise, and further create exclusion, especially in our prison populations. That is the most dangerous, most unsafe thing that we can do for communities and for our democracy. We here in this House are tasked with ensuring that we build and create a strong democracy, one that includes and engages and goes out of our way to make sure we are reaching in to those who feel currently excluded and currently marginalised from our citizen responsibilities to democratically engage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThere has been quite a lot of k\u014Drero in this House today about what the good pathways are to keep communities safe. I did want to pick up on that. I wanted to pick up\u2014I mean, I\u2019m going to go into the rule of law, but I firstly wanted to pick up on the experience of criminal experts, judges whom I\u2019ve spoken directly with, community workers, and people who have breached the law themselves, as well as victims involved with programmes like restorative justice\u2014restorative justice being a way that victims can seek stronger accountability. Restorative justice is a stronger accountability pathway where victims have the option of being able to call the perpetrators who caused them harm to better account than just throwing criminals behind bars and walls does. We understand that there is long-undisputed evidence that the current punitive approach does not help people, does not even restore justice\u2014not even necessarily for victims, and victims throughout restorative and rehabilitative justice processes and discussions have been very clear about this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIf we are taking on board a pathway that understands what the best approach is to ensure that we are rehabilitating properly, that we are reducing reoffending, then upholding the rule of law to allow prisoners to continue to vote is a part of that pathway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIn my short time, I will quickly mention\u2014oh, actually, let\u2019s just go to upholding the rule of law, because we have heard several speeches from the Opposition today that harp on and on about being law-abiding good citizens, and yet they are undermining the rule of law. They are sitting here and standing in this House trying to focus on being law-abiding citizens, but by their very acts they are undermining the rule of law. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, the Supreme Court, and the very founding Waitangi Tribunal findings document also agreed that removing these voting rights undermined and went against the very rule of law. The so-called citizen-abiding party is feeling strong in its continued message to undermine the rule of law and the essence of engagement and democracy. That\u2019s all they can cling on to and we can all see why there is such a weak, hypocritical argument for them to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dbd65f3d310473eaf24d904eab51077\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t use that word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe5e3d57865e48e2b7f8316d28913c13\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: If hypocritical is not a good word to use in this House then I take that back, but then it is such a weak argument that turns themselves on the head of what they are trying to uphold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI did think that I should spend a couple of sentences highlighting Mr Mitchell, I think it was, who stood there without a second thought with his patronising debate of what M\u0101ori should be doing. That was astounding. Let\u2019s listen to what his lack of insight and experience of the entire colonisation journey has to say about what M\u0101ori should be doing to ensure that our people are living good, healthy lives. Let\u2019s completely ignore the work that our grassroots kaupapa M\u0101ori - led organisations have been doing for decades with some of the most challenging conditions and barriers put in front of them, and the work that they have been leading despite the systemic failures that have been happening. Let\u2019s just ignore that is what Mr Mitchell is saying. Let\u2019s ignore the leadership that has been coming from the grassroots community that has been working without systemic support, without understanding how tough it is to have to work with wh\u0101nau in these conditions, and let\u2019s pretend we know best what M\u0101ori should be doing to ensure all of our people are living good lives. That was an astounding debate to put on this floor and I stand strongly to refute every single word and attitude that puts those debates on this floor in this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWhen we distance and further diminish and further dehumanise people in prisons, we are not just distancing them; we are distancing their wh\u0101nau who are living in our communities today. We are sending a strong message, not just to that person in prison but to that whole wh\u0101nau, that their life too is worthy of being dehumanised, is worthy of not having access to engage in democracy. So this is why the Greens are very proud to support this bill. This is also why I wanted\u2014I\u2019m looking at you nervously because I\u2019m wondering if my time\u2019s coming up, but I\u2019m just going to try to get this last thing out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f047fd2a41ef451da147bba3c1aa82df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f047fd2a41ef451da147bba3c1aa82df\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member. This debate on this bill is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202003172f08a880f5da4009b9a05c5b5fd3f62f000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"