"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bd1ae445071d4ff190051f1feeb232ea\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 MAY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219bec8177c674197bd898fdd0b942fb5\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 MAY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000004\u0022\u003EKarakia.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209c50bb0ddd144548350c23702306780\u0022\u003ESupplementary Estimates Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5936bd52dad472f91b6e21b10dd0153\u0022\u003ESupplementary Estimates Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd5792b7988a46059a2b1c09b629d495\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd5792b7988a46059a2b1c09b629d495\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00224d104e53b362422b8438a294f7fc383d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d104e53b362422b8438a294f7fc383d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002258c617f0f63d48369ad9a4a6233fba14\u0022\u003EBudget Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223e41d8e1b7e42858b56f3a14b9f44b1\u0022\u003EBudget Documents\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022421618981d47416096bf4f78860f40b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022421618981d47416096bf4f78860f40b2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I hereby present the 2020 Budget Speech, the Wellbeing Budget 2020, including reports on fiscal strategy and on child poverty, and the summary of initiatives, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, and the Estimates of Appropriations for the Government of New Zealand for the year ending 30 June 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb2d105f35b04582b47ddf5233794995\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb2d105f35b04582b47ddf5233794995\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcb022561d0448b3976d4de778931886\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2020/21 Estimates) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d22d06f143a411da0043ab8cbaefbbe\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba23765ca06544ddbe4864fb5934da00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba23765ca06544ddbe4864fb5934da00\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2020/21 Estimates) Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022575ffb5ebb4f41d0854e6aae3e4e3cb1\u0022\u003EBudget Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cfc164dc4de4f6b9bcec39eb2290fb9\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d526319bd2a441e2aa156337e12afa22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d526319bd2a441e2aa156337e12afa22\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2020/21 Estimates) Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFrom its very beginning, the coalition Government has committed to putting the wellbeing of current and future generations of New Zealanders at the heart of everything we do. There is no time in New Zealand\u2019s recent history where this is more important than today. Budget 2020 is being delivered in the shadow of a one-in-100-year threat to the wellbeing of our people, our communities, and our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe global COVID-19 pandemic has sent shockwaves around the entire world, and we are feeling these deeply here at home. 17 March now seems an age ago, when I announced in this House a $12.1 billion COVID-19 recovery package. At the time, this was one of the largest responses on the planet\u2014some 4 percent of GDP. I said then it was only the beginning of our response, and today we take further steps in enabling New Zealanders, together, to respond, recover, and rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThese are not the words I thought I would use to describe the Budget only a couple of months ago. There are many words and concepts that New Zealanders would have been surprised to hear themselves using in quite the way they are: bubble, physical distancing, PPE, contact tracing, \u201CYou\u2019re on mute, Damien.\u201D, level 4, level 3, and yes\u2014as of today\u2014level 2. Another word is \u201Cunprecedented\u201D. It is one we have heard and said almost daily. The lives of all New Zealanders have been affected to an extent none of us would have thought possible only a matter of months ago. It is also a word that we have to keep using. This pandemic has not finished; its health and economic stories are still being told. We can be very proud as a country of our health response, and it must go on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnd now, we also have to put a team of five million to work on our economic response. The initiatives we\u2019ve put in place since 17 March, just two months ago, have formed the first stage of our plan to face COVID-19. Respond\u2014go hard, go early. We were faced with a choice between a public health catastrophe, as has been seen in other countries, or unprecedented and difficult measures. There were no costless decisions in this situation, and nor was there any playbook to go by. I know that our success in controlling the virus has come at a price, with hundreds of thousands of Kiwi workers and employers having to stay home, and jobs and businesses lost. But I stand by our view that the best economic response is a health response. By going hard and early\u2014getting on top of the virus while protecting jobs and businesses\u2014we now have a head start on many countries around the world to get the economy moving again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to thank our coalition partner, New Zealand First, and our confidence and supply partner, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. This has been a Budget put together in extraordinary circumstances, and your cooperation, commitment, and flexibility has been much appreciated. I also want to place on record my appreciation for the massive effort of hundreds of public servants over the last two months, including in the preparation of this Budget. Many people\u2014including those at Treasury and in our ministerial offices\u2014have worked seven days a week for that whole period of time. Their dedication is a measure of true public service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe core of Budget 2020 will boost critical public services, fund infrastructure, and provide the unprecedented investment needed for the second and third stages of our plan to face COVID-19: recover and rebuild. Through this Budget, we are establishing the $50 billion COVID-19 response and recovery fund. This fund builds on top of the initial $12.1 billion package and the $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme we announced in January. This is the most significant financial commitment by a New Zealand Government in modern history. The fund does not represent a target for spending but gives us the flexibility to be able to respond as necessary. The fund will be critical in seeing New Zealand through the economic struggle that is coming, and rebuilding our economy for the better over the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOur recovery and rebuild will be based on getting New Zealanders back to work. This Budget is about jobs: keeping people in their jobs wherever we can; supporting businesses and sectors to create new jobs through infrastructure, housing, and more; directly creating jobs that help restore our environment and conservation estate; and training and retraining people for new jobs at a scale we have never seen before. It also begins to rebuild our social infrastructure, acknowledging the toll this crisis has taken on our communities, and on the people and places that hold them together. It is a once in a generation Budget. It is bold because the task we face is monumental. We said at the outset of this crisis that, while we would not be able to save every job or every business, we would do everything in our power to protect people and our economy. Today, we go further and begin to chart a course to a better tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EComing into this crisis, New Zealand was fortunate to have a fundamentally strong economy and fiscal position. Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, real GDP growth in the year to December 2019 was higher than many of our international peers. Unemployment\u2014at 4 percent\u2014was historically low, and wage growth\u2014at 3 percent\u2014was at decade-long highs. New Zealand\u2019s fiscal position was also strong. The coalition Government had delivered on its plan to reduce net core Crown debt below 20 percent of GDP and achieve $12.8 billion of operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) surpluses in our first two years in office. These were conscious choices that did not go unchallenged. But this strong fiscal position, built on the work of Bill English and Michael Cullen, now means that we are much better placed than many other countries to use our balance sheet to cushion the blow of COVID-19 on the economy and to protect the wellbeing of New Zealanders. The rainy day has arrived, but we are well prepared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMany other countries are not starting from the same position of strength that we are. The UK started with net debt above 75 percent; the USA, 90 percent; and Ireland, 40 percent. Many countries are already well over 100 percent as they respond to the virus. The IMF expects a decline in global economic activity not seen in peacetime since the Great Depression of the 1930s, with annual global growth expected to fall to minus 3 percent in 2020. Although we are doing everything in our power to push back on these trends, there is no sugar coating the impact this crisis has had on the Government\u2019s books. Treasury\u2019s forecasts and alternative scenarios indicate that there will be a sharp fall in economic activity and a substantial rise in unemployment. New Zealand\u2019s real GDP growth rate is forecast to decline from 2.8 percent in the year ending June 2019 to minus 4.6 percent in the year ending June 2020, driven by a quarterly decline in GDP of over 20 percent in the June 2020 quarter. Annual average GDP growth is forecast to return to positive from the year ending September 2021 onwards. Unemployment is forecast to increase significantly, rising to 8.3 percent in the year ending June 2020, before peaking at 9.8 percent in September 2020 and then recovering thereafter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is worthy of note that economic forecasting is more of an art than a science at the best of times, but more so than ever now. The full impact of COVID-19 around the world is still being seen. The depth and duration of the pandemic means that the economic outlook is highly uncertain, and forecasts will change as more information comes to light, but what they do clearly show is the scale of the economic challenge that lies ahead. I remain committed to managing our books carefully and responsibly. And, right now, being responsible means investing to support our people, businesses, and communities to get through this and to rebuild. This is the rainy day we have been preparing for\u2014now we must weather the global storm. The scale of this required investment will impact the operating position and net debt. OBEGAL deficits will average 9.3 percent of GDP between 2020 and 2022. Careful economic management will see the deficit reduce to 1.3 percent of GDP by 2024. Net core Crown debt is forecast to be 30.2 percent at the end of this financial year, and to reach 53.6 percent of GDP by the 2023 fiscal year before stabilising. These numbers are far in excess of the range that we had been working to, and the levels we had achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut this is a one-in-100-year event, affecting every country in the world this way. In an international context, our debt will still be among the lowest in the world among developed countries. Our disciplined and balanced approach to managing the economy means that ratings agencies around the world have, in recent weeks, reaffirmed our credit rating and their view that New Zealand is well placed to get through COVID-19. Running operating deficits and allowing net core Crown debt to increase in the short term is necessary. This level of investment in the short term will support the economy recovering to where we can return to a more sustainable fiscal position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Budget includes the second ever Budget day report on child poverty. Our goal remains, despite the challenges posed by COVID-19, for New Zealand to be the best place in the world to be a child. Budget 2020 builds on past investments to reduce child poverty, including through the Families Package, the indexation of benefits to wages, and lifts to the minimum wage. It is also supported by our actions on 17 March to lift main benefits by $25 per week and other policies that are supporting the lowest income New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn February this year, the Government Statistician published the first report of progress against the child poverty targets set under the Act. Reporting time frames meant that the impact of the Government\u2019s Families Package was only partially shown, but of the nine different poverty measures reported, seven showed decreases from the previous year\u2019s baseline rates. The report also indicates that the Government was broadly on track to meet the three-year targets on the two primary measures of low income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is still too early to know what the precise impact of COVID-19 will be on rates of child poverty. The loss of jobs and incomes will have knock-on impacts for households trying to pay their rents and meet everyday needs. Fundamentally, what we do know is that investing in our children and their wellbeing will have significant long-term benefits for our economy and broader society long after COVID-19 has passed. This focus remains core to the Government\u2019s agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs we move into alert level 2 and the recovery stage, our purpose is to see people back at work, to clear the pathway for communities and sectors most affected by COVID-19, and to lay the groundwork for our rebuild. The COVID-19 response and recovery fund, established through this Budget, will be used to support New Zealanders through each stage of the impact of the virus. It is designed to support not only our immediate response but also to provide support, as necessary, over the longer term to rebuild our economy and society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have already committed $13.9 billion of the fund to previously announced initiatives, including funding for the wage subsidy scheme, the essential workers\u2019 leave scheme, small to medium sized enterprise support measures, the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme, and additional packages to support the health response, and resources for those in need. Today, we are announcing a further $15.9 billion in funding, focused on key areas that will kick-start the economic recovery, create decent, sustainable jobs, ensure the security of our most vulnerable, and lay the groundwork for us to rebuild a better nation together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Government has already provided unprecedented support to cushion the blow of COVID-19 for businesses across New Zealand. As well as the wage subsidy scheme, businesses have been supported through significant changes in the taxation system, low and interest-free loans, together with supportive changes to laws and regulations. This Budget goes further, with a $4 billion business support package to keep people in work and position businesses for recovery and growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor many businesses, the struggle in the face of COVID-19 is not over. We know that a number of them are far from trading at normal levels, particularly in the tourism, hospitality, and retail sectors. So today, we are announcing a targeted extension of the successful wage subsidy scheme. The scheme has already seen more than $10.7 billion paid out to support workers and businesses. The extension will focus on businesses who are still doing it tough. It will be available for a further eight-week period for those who have suffered a 50 percent reduction in turnover in the 30 days prior to application compared to last year. It will follow on directly from the end of the 12-week scheme, and is estimated to cost up to $3.2 billion. The extension will provide further stimulus to the economy, keep people in work, and give businesses more time, as we move through alert level 2, to re-establish or re-orientate their operations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBeyond the wage subsidy scheme, our direct business support package increases support to research and development. We are launching a $150 million short-term temporary loan scheme to incentivise businesses to continue R \u0026amp; D programmes that may be at risk due to COVID-19. The loans will provide one-off finance and will be administered by Callaghan Innovation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETrade will also play a significant role in kick-starting New Zealand\u2019s recovery from COVID-19. We are providing a $216 million boost to New Zealand Trade and Enterprise to expand the scope and intensity of support they provide to export firms. This includes increasing activity for New Zealand firms in priority markets and expanding the digital services available to firms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 has brought home the increasing importance of e-commerce for our small businesses. We are setting aside $10 million in funding to support small businesses to improve their e-commerce offerings, and incentives and grants to encourage e-commerce adoption. We will also provide support for business advice, the e-invoicing project, Business Connect, and the Better For Business programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EInvestment in new infrastructure projects will help support the long-term economic recovery from COVID-19. It will not only grow jobs but it will also seek to address the infrastructure deficit that has held New Zealand\u2019s productivity back for too long. We will build the infrastructure we need to unclog our cities, to connect our towns, and to support sustainable development. We will make sure that this is the infrastructure needed for a 21st century New Zealand that, among other things, supports meeting our climate change goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe had already made a significant start on this with our $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme, announced in January. In this Budget we are establishing an initial $3 billion contingency for additional infrastructure investment. Cabinet will make the final decisions on which projects should be funded from this contingency in the coming weeks and months. This will include projects that are identified through the Infrastructure Reference Group, as well as bids from individual departments and agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe will have a particular focus on regional infrastructure projects identified through the Provincial Growth Fund, and on projects that advance other goals of the Government. We look forward to increased partnerships with local government and the private sector to advance this programme of work. I fully expect that we will fund further infrastructure projects beyond this initial allocation as we move on with our rebuild, including in areas such as our three waters programme. The policies we have introduced as part of the COVID-19 response, such as reform of the Resource Management Act, will be a significant support in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EEvery New Zealander deserves a warm, dry home, but a decade of under-investment has resulted in New Zealanders having to put up with a housing shortage, and too many of those homes that are available are of poor quality. We\u2019ve seen this manifest in unaffordable house prices, high rents, and homelessness that no New Zealander of any political persuasion can be comfortable with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENot only is housing one of our greatest areas of need, it is also a job-rich area. We have already seen, through our construction accord, the possibilities that exist to train and build a workforce to drive forward our goals on housing. Today\u2019s housing package creates 8,000 additional public or transitional housing places over the next four to five years. This will be financed by $5 billion of building through the K\u0101inga Ora borrowing programme and investment in community and transitional housing providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are also providing $670 million of support and services to tenants. This will improve affordability by increasing the supply of houses, while also providing a shot in the arm to the residential construction sector as we emerge from the crisis. It will also take us further down the path of ending homelessness. Further support for housing development and construction, including in the private residential market, will be a critical element of our recovery from COVID-19, and it is my intention that this will be the subject of further investment in the next phases of the fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOur rebuild from COVID-19 provides an opportunity to address some of the longstanding sustainability and environmental challenges facing New Zealand. Our $1\u00A0billion environmental jobs package announced today will create thousands of jobs that will at the same time support habitat protection, pest control, and biodiversity on our public lands. This includes a $433 million investment in regional environment projects. These will support our economic and environmental recovery in partnership with local government and farmers. It will include restoring wetlands, stabilising river banks, and removing sediment. There will be projects and jobs created all across New Zealand, including in the Kaipara catchment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EA $315 million package of pest eradication and pest control work, including advancing Predator Free New Zealand, is established in this Budget. This also includes work to get under control populations of wallabies and to help control wilding pines. We are also establishing a $200 million jobs for nature fund to support job creation within the Department Of Conservation estate, including through upgrading tracks, huts, and other facilities. These are practical initiatives: creating jobs, while protecting and enhancing our environment\u2014a perfect ingredient for recovery from COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs New Zealanders find themselves out of work, or entering the labour market for the first time, it is vital that there is strong support for them to get the skills and knowledge they need for work. For businesses they also need support to keep and take on apprentices. In the past, investment has not been made up front, seeing people drop out of the labour market, so that when the time comes and businesses have recovered there is not the workforce available with the required skills. We will not let that happen again. This Budget is funding a $1.6 billion trades and apprentices package. It will provide opportunity for New Zealanders of all ages to receive trades training. This will include financial support for businesses to retain their apprentices; free apprenticeships and training in targeted, critical industries; and funding increased enrolments in tertiary education and training. There is a specific $50 million fund for M\u0101ori apprentices and trades training. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe recognise the importance of the partnership with business and workers in making our training system work. The package also includes the establishment funding for Workforce Development Councils and Regional Skills Leadership Groups to assist with coordination. The Ministry of Social Development is being supported to expand its employment services and core provision as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are also injecting a further $121 million into He Poutama Rangatahi. This scheme provides funding to community-driven programmes to resolve barriers to employment and training. They have a proven track record in engaging young people who are at risk of falling out of work and developing them as people as well. This boost will accelerate this programme\u2019s establishment into urban areas that have the greatest number of young people not in employment, education, or training, such as west and South Auckland, Hamilton, Porirua, and Christchurch East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf there was one decision in the wake of the global financial crisis that symbolised the failure to understand the role of education and training in the recovery from a downturn, it was the decision to cancel funding for adult and community education, including night classes. This Government will not allow that mistake to be made again. The Budget includes a $16 million boost to adult and community education to restore that funding and help providers to meet the increased needs for training and upskilling in the wake of COVID-19. This Government is absolutely committed to the place and role of education in supporting our recovery and rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe also understand that the COVID-19 crisis has put pressure on students, many of whom have lost income as a result of losing part-time work. We are establishing a $20 million hardship fund for students in this Budget, and in further responses we will continue to work on other ways we can support students through this difficult time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOver and above the wider support that we are providing to businesses to keep people employed and support the growth of new jobs, we have a range of targeted support packages aimed at sectors particularly impacted by COVID-19. One of the industries most directly impacted by COVID-19 has been tourism. The shutting down of our borders has been a critical element in our success in controlling COVID-19. But quite clearly that has turned off the tap of the millions of visitors who have supported our tourism industry. Border restrictions are going to be with us for some time, so we need to work with the businesses and tourism centres to re-imagine and transition the industry. The extension to the wage subsidy scheme announced today will provide further support for tourism businesses and jobs as domestic tourism begins again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Budget today makes the first contribution from the Government to the tourism sector recovery plan. This $400 million funding injection will support the first stages of an action plan agreed with the industry. This will include a transitions programme to support businesses to plan for the next steps, a fund to ensure key tourism assets survive, a domestic tourism marketing campaign, and a public-private taskforce to shape the future of the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Budget also recognises the significant impact of COVID-19 on our M\u0101ori community, particularly in terms of unemployment, where M\u0101ori are already overrepresented. Our M\u0101ori COVID-19 recovery package totals $485 million and includes a range of measures to support wh\u0101nau through the recovery period. This is in addition to other significant investments in Budget 2020 for M\u0101ori initiatives. The package includes a $137 million boost to Wh\u0101nau Ora to ensure providers can continue to provide timely and flexible support to wh\u0101nau facing the health and socio-economic impacts of COVID-19. I want to make a special acknowledgement to those Wh\u0101nau Ora providers and to other iwi groups who have provided hundreds of thousands of care packages to wh\u0101nau during this period. Ng\u0101 mihi ki te aroha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe package also establishes funding for a M\u0101ori and iwi housing and innovation fund, Te Maihi o Te Whare M\u0101ori, to create opportunities for building housing for wh\u0101nau and the jobs that go with it. More than $20 million has been allocated to a cadetship programme to support re-skilling and career development opportunities. Further initiatives to support M\u0101ori education are supported in order to ensure that the effects of COVID-19 do not take away from the earlier investments made by the Government. This includes programmes to sustain k\u014Dhanga reo and revitalising Te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ELikewise, our $195 million Pacific recovery package is comprised of a range of initiatives to support Pacific communities who have been affected by COVID-19, including a major focus on programmes to lift skills and support employment. One example is the extension of the Tupu Aotearoa programme across New Zealand. This helps Pacific young people to find employment, complete further training, or undertake study. The package also includes a Pasifika culture and heritage fund, support for housing, business and community development, education, and training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere are also sector recovery packages for the arts and for sports. These are both areas that have been devastated by COVID-19. Funding sources have dried up and events have been cancelled. They are both sectors that have increasingly offered employment opportunities and contributed to our economy. We know that they are very much part of our social infrastructure. They make our communities strong. The details of these packages will be announced in the coming days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOne very particular part of the community and sporting sector gets a long sought after boost in this Budget. Our water safety sector has long relied on donations for much of its work. In an increasingly tough environment to raise that money, the likes of Surf Live Saving New Zealand and the Coastguard will now have funding security with $62 million allocated over four years for their critical work. Further sector packages, including for the media sector are being developed over the coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is critical that we support our communities and, especially, vulnerable people to respond to and recover from COVID-19. On 17 March we provided a $2.8 billion package that increased main benefits across the board by $25 per week and doubled the winter energy payment for 2020. We have continued to provide emergency support via Civil Defence throughout this period, and provided $100 million of support to house the homeless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn this Budget we are investing in financial assistance for caregivers. This will increase the current rates of the foster care allowance, orphans benefit and unsupported child\u2019s benefit by $25 per week per child to meet the needs of children and their caregivers. It also provides further support that the Minister for Children will outline in the coming days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFood security will be critical throughout the recovery period, with too many individuals and families impacted by COVID-19 struggling to afford food. No New Zealander should go hungry because they can\u2019t afford it. That\u2019s why we are expanding the free and healthy school lunch programme to 200,000 students from term 4. The $217 million expansion will target students in schools with the highest disadvantage and is expected to create 2,400 jobs in the community. We are also providing $32 million to increase support for food banks, food rescue, and other community food services to leverage surplus donated food from producers, manufacturers, and suppliers that would otherwise go to landfill. We are also establishing a $36 million fund to support community groups to respond directly to COVID-19 and its impact, with a particular focus on those who are from M\u0101ori, Pacific, refugee, and migrant communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, today\u2019s announcements are part of a rolling maul of Government support throughout the COVID-19 response and recovery. Our economic response to COVID-19 will happen every day, not just Budget day. We will continue to work with New Zealanders to shape that response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs we faced up to COVID-19 and deployed such significant support in such a short space of time, we had to take another look at our plans as a Government. As in businesses all around New Zealand, important work has had to be slowed or postponed, and resources have had to be reprioritised in light of the fight against COVID-19. The Budget is no exception. The new spending packages planned on our five priorities that were announced in the Budget Policy Statement have been reassessed. We may revisit them in future, but the focus for Budget 2020 has now very quickly become providing the strong public services we need and taking our next steps to recover and rebuild. New Zealand\u2019s ability to respond rapidly and effectively to this crisis has highlighted the importance of investing in and maintaining effective core Government services. I will briefly run through the main elements of the core package to maintain and enhance these services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EInvestment in the health sector has never been more critical. Budget 2020 invests extensively in areas that we know will make a difference to the wellbeing of New Zealanders. The total investment made through our core health package is $5.6 billion in services and $755 million in capital investment. This spend includes $3.9 billion for district health boards. This represents the largest ever annual investment. This will provide much needed funding for our hospitals and other services so that they can continue to provide for New Zealand\u2019s growing and changing population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Budget also provides funding for more medicines through a $160 million increase to the combined pharmaceutical budget managed by Pharmac. This critical investment takes Pharmac\u2019s medicines budget to a record $1.045 billion for 2020-21. That\u2019s an increase of 20 percent since 2017-18. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe are also helping disabled New Zealanders to live good lives, with a further $832.5 million for disability support services. This initiative provides security of funding for services to people with long-term physical, intellectual, or sensory impairment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn addition to this package, and to the $500 million allocated as our initial boost to deal with COVID-19, we are announcing today further supports to parts of the sector particularly affected, including $37 million to sustain laboratory testing capacity and additional support for ambulance, aged care, disability, and hospice services. I expect that we will provide further support to our health sector in the coming months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBudget 2020 provides a funding boost to both governmental and non-governmental social services, to support employment, housing, and wellbeing. Our $203 million family violence services package represents the largest funding boost for family violence service providers in over a decade, so that they can recruit and develop highly capable staff and respond to the demand they are facing. It builds on the $320 million in funding provided through Budget 2019, to be the two largest increases in family violence prevention funding on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Budget invests nearly $1 billion to support the core provision of education services. This will provide substantial support to students across all levels of education, while also targeting investment in areas that we know will benefit students who need it the most. The education package makes a significant investment in our early childhood sector. The sector has been placed under particular strain in recent years, and this has been exacerbated by COVID-19. The Budget includes cost adjustments for early childhood education subsidies and a pay boost for early childhood teachers. The Government will make further announcements on support for this sector in the near future. The school property investment package will invest $115.1 million to help expand, maintain, and enhance our schools. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s primary industries play a critical role in growing our economy. As we move further into the post-COVID-19 economic recovery, our primary sector is more important than ever. The core package invests nearly $500 million in initiatives that will ensure our primary industries are supported and sustainable now and into the future. Funding in the package will support primary industries with their existing operations and preventing or mitigating the impacts of biosecurity threats and enabling implementation of climate change and emissions trading scheme reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBudget 2020 provides a boost in investment to support a safe and equitable justice sector. We\u2019re building community safety through investment in new technology, court buildings, and Corrections. A key initiative in this package is the Next Generation Critical Communications programme, which will invest in bringing state of the art communications capabilities to police, fire, and ambulance, supporting healthier, safer, and more connected communities. This will see our emergency services finally able to communicate with the public and with one another all over New Zealand in a safe and reliable manner. The package also provides funding to enable continued access to justice services, such as funding for legal aid, community law centres, and the Canterbury Earthquakes Insurance Tribunal. Additionally, it provides funding for the newly established Criminal Cases Review Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBudget 2020 reaffirms this Government\u2019s commitment to supporting arts and culture in New Zealand, ensuring that funding is available to preserve our nation\u2019s taonga, promote creativity, and celebrate our diversity and history. The package provides support for the local film industry and culturally significant historical collections, as well as ensuring the accessibility of public media platforms to diverse audiences, such as New Zealanders with hearing impairments and those from our Pacific communities. It also includes the significant Preserving the Nations Memory project that will build new facilities for our public records. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Budget 2020 package includes funding for critical pressures in the defence sector. This funding investment in areas such as ICT and Defence estate infrastructure and the replacement of the hard-working Defence Force\u2019s C-130H Hercules fleet. The package also includes an additional $55.6 million for New Zealand to provide further Official Development Assistance (ODA) particularly to our Pacific neighbours during a time of great need. It will bring New Zealand\u2019s overall ODA spending to almost 0.3 percent of forecasted gross national income for the first time in 40 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBudget 2020 builds on investment made through the New Zealand Upgrade Programme and includes more than $1 billion to improve transport across the country. This investment will enhance the resilience and reliability of national rail and ferry networks and, over time, contribute to efforts to reduce our carbon footprint through decreasing emissions. I particularly want to highlight in this package the $400 million capital investment to help replace the Interislander ferries. New ferries will provide a more secure and resilient link between the North and South Islands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe significant investments we are making in public services will be of the utmost importance with the country now moving out of our initial response stage and into our recovery stage. These investments complement and support our targeted COVID-19 response, recovery, and rebuilding measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s Budget represents the next steps in our recovery and rebuild. The world is still learning what the impacts of COVID-19 will be. We owe it to New Zealanders to work carefully through our next steps, recognising that the decisions we are making will define the lives and livelihoods of many people for years to come. The weight of those decisions comes with a spirit of optimism in what New Zealand can be. The glimmer of silver lining on this darkest of clouds comes from the knowledge that we have the opportunity to build back better. There are few times in your life when you get to hit the reset button. It is a privilege that many countries do not have right now as they still struggle to get the virus under control, and it is an opportunity we will not squander. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOur rebuild must be one that takes the very best of who we are and uses it to take on the issues and challenges in front of us. Some of them are old: inequality, low productivity, polluted rivers. Some of them are newer: the transition to a low-carbon economy, adjusting to the rapidly changing world of work, maintaining social cohesion. All of them are in front of us in stark relief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe can draw on the lessons of the past as to how to deal with them. The answers lie in the great traditions of the first Labour Government, who rebuilt New Zealand after the Great Depression. It was a time when they understood a genuine partnership between Government and the people; that each and every person in this country deserves the right to take up the chances afforded by being lucky enough to live in, as my predecessor Peter Fraser called it, this green and pleasant land. They built houses, rail, and roads, they created the welfare State and a strong public health system, and they backed shopkeepers and manufacturers. We are taking those principles into the modern era.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe can also draw on lessons of the past as to what not to do in response to a major economic shock. In this case, I can draw on the experiences of my own life. As the economic carnage of the 1980s and 1990s wreaked havoc in our communities, I saw that up close. It was based on a tired set of ideas that the market would save us, that if the Government sat on the sidelines all would be well. Well, it didn\u2019t work out that way and lives and livelihoods were lost. That will not happen; not on the watch of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe know that we must work in partnership with iwi, business, unions, community groups, and every one of the team of five million, to make sure we all not only get through this but that we thrive on the other side. That means continuing to be bold, as we have been in the last two months. We\u2019re not always all going to agree on the path, but it must be one that gives each and every New Zealander a stake in our future: decent, well-paid work that provides respect and dignity; looking after our most vulnerable; and where we make good on our promise to future generations that we will take on climate change and leave them a legacy to build from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Budget takes the responsible path of investing to respond, recover, and rebuild. It takes us down a path where we will face choices as to how we begin to repay some of our debt. There will be difficult choices then, as there are difficult choices today. But I promise you this: this Government will never put the burden of those choices on those who can least afford it. We will not cut the services that are their lifelines. We will not preach austerity, but then line our pockets with tax cuts. No, we will rebuild this country with hard work, innovation, creativity, compassion, and courage. We will grow our economy sustainably to pay back our debt, we will fairly share that burden, and, above all, we will do it together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere are still tough times ahead. But we have made it this far in fighting COVID-19 by drawing on every bit of who we are as New Zealanders: kind but tough, fair but forthright, and single-minded but united in action. It is just the end of the beginning; the next chapters are ours to write. Kia m\u0101ia, kia atawhai, kia kaha\u2014be bold, be kind, be strong. He waka eke noa\u2014we are all in this together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231b81dad6efe4657ab4ac67faa3a05eb\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a91c27a03910446abcd17c3a61a1d32f\u0022\u003EBudget Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00227679a66fb88b4fb0ae4ff9a35508b8e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227679a66fb88b4fb0ae4ff9a35508b8e1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Nothing in recent history has brought about such global disruption as the COVID-19 pandemic. Kiwis have sacrificed much through the restrictions of lockdown, but we can all be proud that the collective efforts of everyone have so far worked well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EToday is not just about the Budget but about the direction of New Zealand more generally, because the decisions we make now are generation-defining ones that will affect the next decade and beyond. This is about whether we have a society where people have jobs and growth, or are saddled with uncertainty, debt, and taxes. Tens of thousands of Kiwis have already lost their jobs and similarly large numbers of business people have had to close their doors for good. These New Zealanders have, through no fault of their own, paid a huge sacrifice because of COVID-19. You\u2019ve lost your livelihoods and the nest eggs you\u2019ve worked so hard to build up. National stands with you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important we take a moment to reflect on the last eight weeks. A lot of our response has gone incredibly well. New Zealanders have self-isolated and social-distanced, and sacrificed. We have flattened the curve. But just having a low number of COVID-19 cases isn\u2019t success when we have tens of thousands of people out of work, and more coming. Figures from the Reserve Bank yesterday estimated that there will be 150,000 job losses over the next six months, and this Budget puts it at 160,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EFirst, credit where credit is due: this Government\u2019s speed at getting the wage subsidy scheme up and running reduced early economic calamity. Our lockdown, however, has proved excessively hard. As I\u2019ve said, workers and businesses have watched in horror as week after week of lockdown has washed away the foundations of their businesses that they have spent years or decades building. One thousand people a day are joining the dole queue since lockdown began, and those numbers are increasing. That is 1,000 people a day who are losing their livelihoods, 1,000 people a day who face a very uncertain future, and 1,000 people a day who don\u2019t know how they\u2019re going to pay their bills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EHaving gone hard and early on lockdown, we\u2019ve gone soft and slow on the economy. While lockdown was justified, we should have opened up the economy sooner to get New Zealand working again. Having flattened the curve, we must not flatten the economy. We must unlock New Zealand and get New Zealand working again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s about the future, not the past. We need to lighten the lockdown to save jobs by getting cash to small businesses in need in the very short term. Even now, lockdown of a kind continues. Yes, at level 2 more workplaces can open, but there are many rules, and many workers and business people are still going backwards. I say, Prime Minister, get Kiwis back to work unless there\u2019s an overwhelming reason not to. Put more trust in everyday New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe recognise we\u2019re in the deepest economic recession in our lives. That involves us ensuring we don\u2019t make the economic disaster worse than it needs to be. We must not spend more than we need to in poorly prioritised areas. After health and after education, we need only ask one question with our taxpayers\u2019 money: does it save jobs and create growth? Big spending in the Budget should be focused on saving jobs, because we understand the suffering from a thousand people a day going on the dole queue and businesses shutting up in record numbers. It\u2019s much easier to keep someone in a job than it is to later find them a job from the dole queue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s much that\u2019s good in this Budget: the business support, and the extension in a targeted way of the wage subsidy. But I note the priorities where $400 million is in tourism for 400,000 jobs, and yet rail is $1.2 billion for fewer than 4,000 jobs. I\u2019m disappointed because I don\u2019t see a plan for jobs and growth. I see pet projects, whether rail or pest eradication, and they may have worth, but, added up, they mean colossal debt and they don\u2019t create sustainable jobs for workers from small to large businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an additional $140 billion in debt, taking us to $200 billion in debt in this country. I note Bill English, I think, didn\u2019t really ever have over an extra $1 billion in a Budget in his time as Minister of Finance. That\u2019s an extra $140 billion in debt, taking us to 54 percent debt to our gross domestic product, or what we earn as a country\u201454 percent\u2014when private debt in this country, we know, is high. That is $80,000 a household\u2014a second mortgage for New Zealanders that this Budget brings in\u2014and $100 billion in deficits over four years, and we know that part of that $140 billion is a $50 billion COVID-19 response and recovery fund. Sadly, a $50 billion slush fund is not a plan for jobs and growth. Spending money is the easy part, but Grant Robertson doesn\u2019t even today know how he will spend it all. It\u2019s not a plan. Much isn\u2019t allocated, leaving over $20 billion to spray prior to election 2020. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe run the risk of turning a deep economic recession from a $50 billion one to an over $140 billion one in debt. Through poorly prioritised spending, the Government risks making this economic disaster worse than it needed to be. We\u2019ve seen it over this term with $3 billion on a provincial growth fund which has created more jobs in Wellington than it has in Wairoa, or hundreds of millions on fees-free, which has led to fewer students at our universities. That unavoidably means much more debt to everyday New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, at $140 billion, that\u2019s $80,000 for every household around our country, and it all needs to be paid back. That, in turn, inevitably means far fewer choices, more taxes, and less money in Kiwis\u2019 pockets. That is why we need discipline from the Government. Weeks ago, the Prime Minister said that we had stopped a wave of devastation, and thanks to the sacrifice of New Zealanders, we have flattened the curve. But, today, we see a tsunami of debt about to wash over us\u2014the greatest burden of debt in our country\u2019s history by a long way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ELast week, the Prime Minister wouldn\u2019t rule out increasing income taxes or introducing new taxes. We know Labour is instinctively in favour of increasing taxes, and now they have their chance to do so for Kiwi businesses and everyday New Zealanders. Vote Labour and\u2014you mark my words\u2014this time next year, the kindness will be gone, and because of wasteful spending, you\u2019ll get more taxes and less money in your pocket. Higher taxes are the last thing New Zealanders need right now, but they are a certainty under a Labour-led Government. What we need now is an economic recovery strategy that gets New Zealanders working again, rather than wayward spending, debt, and taxes. Every day that New Zealand isn\u2019t working again, the debt and the taxes increase. Even now, at level 2, where more workplaces can open, too many restrictions remain. There are too many bureaucrats angsting over every aspect of our lives and, along with politicians, making calls on our behalf. You need to trust everyday New Zealanders, Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s relatively easy to go into lockdown. New Zealanders made the sacrifice. It\u2019s much harder to lead an economy back into recovery, but the best thing you can do is make the way back as simple as possible. That takes an understanding of business and the private sector, and a clear economic plan for jobs and for growth. Unfortunately, we know this Government has a poor record of delivering. I worry about the Government\u2019s ability to get us out of this crisis. I worry about their ability to come up with an economic plan and to execute it. Remember, this is the same Government that failed to deliver KiwiBuild, the same Government that failed to deliver light rail down Dominion Road, the same Government that has failed to build any new roads\u2014in fact, has cancelled most of them. This year, it announced a lot, and in this Budget we see a lot of announcements, and it will continue to make those announcements, but nothing\u2019s happening. It\u2019s one thing to have a Labour Government in the good times, but not in a deep recession. We must not let mismanagement, missteps, and missed opportunities continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENational has the team with the track record of managing New Zealand through times of economic crisis, whether the global financial crisis or earthquakes. We won\u2019t keep on talking with working groups and committees and reports; we will trust everyday New Zealanders and competently, pragmatically implement our plan. We\u2019ve got the competence and the track record to do what we say we will. National will deliver on its promises. It was National that invested in Kiwis getting ultra-fast broadband, which has made the past couple of months more bearable and productive. It was National that started and had a plan to continue the roads of national significance. It was National that built the Waterview Tunnel and gave the green light to the City Rail Link in Auckland. It was National that increased investment in R \u0026amp; D and science during its nine years to help accelerate innovation. I was deeply involved in all of those actions, as were so many of my colleagues here. New Zealanders want a Government that can deliver, and I would back National\u2019s Paul Goldsmith over Grant Robertson, Judith Collins over Phil Twyford, Todd McClay over Kelvin Davis, Michael Woodhouse over David Clark, Louise Upston over Carmel Sepuloni, plus the rest of my team over any of Labour\u2019s team any day of the week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders know that National will get the job done and get New Zealand working again. A National Budget would include a five-point plan back to progress for our country. First, lighten the lockdown: get Kiwis back to work unless there\u2019s an overwhelming reason not to. Second, save jobs by getting cash to small businesses most in need. Last week, we announced that we would introduce an $8 billion GST cashback scheme for businesses. That would allow them to claim up to $100,000 GST refunds and up to $250,000 in low-interest loans. That would do much more\u2014much more\u2014than the Government\u2019s less targeted and less generous loan scheme, or anything announced in the Budget today to save businesses and jobs in the private sector, where we know it\u2019s small businesses through large businesses that actually are the engine room of growth and a plan for prosperity for our country. We also announced we would allow businesses to instantly deduct investments up to $150,000. That would incentivise investment, which would help to stimulate the economy as we recover from this crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThird, we need a bit of common sense and pragmatism around the rules for the one- or two-metre world. It\u2019s one thing to allow bars and cafes to reopen, but if the rules mean that you\u2019d just lose money, what\u2019s the point? Fourth\u2014and I\u2019m serious about this\u2014we would unlock private sector investment, which is the key for growth and innovation. We won\u2019t rely on Wellington committees to reinvent the economy; we\u2019ll trust Kiwis to work out how to get back on their feet. We\u2019ll keep taxes low. We won\u2019t regulate firms to death or keep changing the rules; we\u2019ll back them to succeed. And fifth, we\u2019ll use the Government\u2019s balance sheet to invest in large, high-quality infrastructure, and we\u2019ll actually get it done, like National did with ultra-fast broadband and upgrading our skills, turbo-charging the innovation sector and improving the quality of public services such as health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe need a Budget that backs New Zealanders. I urge the Government to implement our proposals. They will save businesses and jobs and inject the massive stimulus required into the economy. Instead, when New Zealanders look at today\u2019s Budget, they\u2019ll see some of the bleakest economic forecasts this country has seen in living memory, widespread unemployment, growing debt, a decade of deficits. It\u2019s easy to get lost in all of the big numbers today\u2014the four-year projections of spending, the extra billions in debt, the debt-to-GDP ratio. We forget that each of those numbers\u2014all of the numbers, in fact\u2014represent a bigger challenge: the burden we place on New Zealanders and the responsibility we have to them. We forget that a decade of deficits and debt means fewer choices for our kids down the road. The obligation we as parliamentarians have is to make sure the next generation is better off than we are, that they have more choices, more opportunities, more ability to succeed in the world because we back them, not burden them with debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI want my two-year-old daughter Jemima in a couple of decades to buy her first home without having to pay higher taxes. I want the young apprentice from Timaru who emailed me and who wants to set up his own business to do so without having to pay higher taxes and be crippled by that tax. I want all New Zealanders to have the future they want. That means a Government with a plan that doesn\u2019t just accept that debt and deficits are our future. That means a Government with the vision and the determination to get New Zealand working again, and that means we need a plan for growth, we need a plan for saving jobs, and we need a plan for keeping debt low so future generations are not saddled with more debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe are yet to see a comprehensive plan from this Government. As I said before, it\u2019s easy to spend the money, but there\u2019s no plan here. We needed to see in this Budget, specific solutions to save businesses and jobs, the growth engine of our country, and a plan on how this Government will responsibly manage that very same economy. We need to put trust in Kiwis to unleash their creativity and their ingenuity. Let Kiwis unleash their potential and plans. Let\u2019s back and trust everyday New Zealanders to succeed. Let\u2019s unlock New Zealand and get New Zealand working again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022404fb9032b0c4277b81563ba4623ac05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022404fb9032b0c4277b81563ba4623ac05\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Business as usual in this place would dictate that today, Budget day, is the day that the Minister of Finance comes down to this House and delivers the Government\u2019s plan for the next year ahead, and, in fact, the plan for the next three. Business as usual would then have the Opposition stand and give a speech opposing that Budget, including initiatives and funding that has the potential to get our economy growing as early as next year. Business as usual would have everyone in this House retrench into their old patterns that the public know so well but, if we\u2019re all being honest, probably have very little time for. Today, I\u2019m afraid, the Leader of the Opposition has assumed it\u2019s business as usual, but nothing\u2014and I mean nothing\u2014about this time in our history is usual, and so neither should our response be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EWe have been a Government that, with the support and efforts of New Zealanders, took us through an enormous health challenge, and we will take the same approach to the recovery of our economy. I see that Mr Bridges did not move a motion of no confidence in this Budget, and I take that as an assumption that the Opposition will vote for this Budget today. I hope so, because this is a period in our history that is a global crisis, and to see this Budget for what it is: a response to the rainy day we have planned for. Now is the time to come together as politicians to say that a rainy day demands of us that we shelter and protect New Zealand to weather the storm. Rather than argue about who gets to hold the umbrella, I hope the Opposition steps away from business as usual and does vote for a Budget that delivers jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EA mere six months ago, nobody would have imagined a world that is in the grips of a global COVID-19 pandemic, let alone one that would wreak havoc across health systems and the global economy. I still vividly remember at the beginning of the year reading about the first lockdowns overseas and thinking how remarkable it was to ask humans to stay in one place for such a long period of time; it just seemed unfathomable. And yet here we are, having shut our borders and moved into lockdown and collectively built a wall of defence to a virus that was closing in on the world. There are few things now that I think I will ever consider to be outside the bounds of possibility any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EPerhaps that is the same perspective we now need as we start our recovery. We have to be focused. We have to be decisive. We have to go into this period knowing that it will be tough but that there is hope and there is possibility. In short, I give my commitment to New Zealanders that they will see us, this Government, apply the same unrelenting focus we have had on our health response to COVID-19 to our economic response, and that work has already started. From the very beginning, we have said that jobs were our focus, and they are. That is why in March we announced a wage subsidy scheme designed to keep people connected to work and to certainty and the dignity that comes with work. That programme has supported roughly 1.6 million New Zealanders to date and has meant that we have thus far avoided the spike in unemployment other countries have experienced while our country was in lockdown and our businesses were unable to open. It helped get many workers and businesses through the toughest weeks so that they now have the chance to reopen and move to recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut we must keep going. The times ahead will be tough. Global predictions are dire. Unemployment will rise, and growth will slow dramatically. We know as a trading nation that will have an impact, and it will be significant and it will be painful. We have never sugar coated what the future will look like, but nor will we pretend that there is nothing we can do about it. Governments have choices, just as we did when we faced COVID-19, and those choices are between sitting back and hoping or sitting up and taking action. We have chosen to act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EToday, we start by extending the wage subsidy. Now, it won\u2019t be the same as the first time round, as we look to make it more targeted. We know that there are businesses who are opening up again, but we also know that there are some who cannot just yet, while others will take more time to recover. It serves no one if in the meantime, while businesses are opening back up, they lay off staff unnecessarily. I know how important this is. I\u2019ve received countless emails from people describing what a difference the wage subsidy has meant to them. In almost all of them, they talk about their staff being their family and how important retaining and looking after them has been. So today we are extending the wage subsidy for another eight weeks, with a focus on providing support to businesses who have been particularly affected by COVID-19. This will mean businesses and sectors like tourism and other small businesses across the country will be supported, and it will ease the recovery for thousands. Like the first round of the wage subsidy saved jobs, this targeted extension will save jobs too. That\u2019s why it\u2019s in such an important part of this jobs Budget. We believe it\u2019s the best thing we can do at this phase of our recovery to help businesses who are getting back on their feet and to support their staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut our response must go beyond supporting those still in work. This isn\u2019t enough. Too many people have already lost their jobs, and we need to support their path back to employment. For them, we must be swift, we must be practical, but we also owe it to ourselves to take this opportunity to solve the problems of both today and the problems of yesterday as we go. If I\u2019d asked you before COVID-19 what it is we must address as a nation, what are our current challenges, I imagine that many people would write a very similar list. We have long faced a housing crisis. Our environment has been suffering. Inequality and child poverty have all been issues that we have had to tackle. In three years\u2019 time, I want to look back and say that COVID-19 was not the point those issues got worse but the chance we had to make them better. We can emerge from this crisis stronger than we were before. That\u2019s why we are focused on jobs, but also jobs that solve each of these entrenched problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s look at how. We have had a skills deficit, and now, on top of that, we have more people who need the chance to train or retrain. That\u2019s why this Budget will target vocational training and apprenticeships we need most and make them free. I don\u2019t just mean school leavers; I mean everyone. It will mean more people training in building and construction, in agriculture, in manufacturing, community health, counselling, and care work. This will help those who have lost their jobs retrain and others to train on the job. While many have lost work, there are others who have labour shortages. Even through COVID-19, people have wanted to buy our high-quality food and fibre, and that\u2019s why in this Budget we\u2019ll be looking to partner and support 10,000 New Zealanders into the primary sector and the jobs that they need filled now. For our young people, those who so often carry the brunt of crises like this, we will fund 1,000 more places in trades academy; expand He Poutama Rangatahi to support young people into work in west and South Auckland, Hamilton, Porirua, and east Christchurch; and build group training schemes that support M\u0101ori apprenticeships. All in all, this is a $1.6 billion investment into New Zealand\u2019s future and into rebuilding apprenticeships, into closing our skills gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat will be so important because of our next challenge: housing. Our response to COVID, on the face of it, had a very simple premise early on: stay home, save lives. But that simple, simple requirement forced us all as a country to ask a question: what if you don\u2019t have a home? The answer was simple: we will find you one. Through hard work and huge collaboration between Government, local government, iwi, and the community sector, that is exactly what happened. In the midst of this crisis, we have housed the chronically homeless in New Zealand, and now we need to keep it that way. In this Budget, we are announcing an extra 8,000 houses, providing $5 billion of construction stimulus into the economy over the next four to five years for public housing and transitional housing. When combined with what we have already funded, this takes the number of housing places for those who need homes to 17,000 public houses and transitional housing. This represents the largest public housing building programme in recent decades, and I hope it means that COVID-19 will be remembered as a period where New Zealand didn\u2019t just stay home; it made sure everyone had a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003ESince coming into Government, we have seen countless other examples of the under-investment in New Zealand\u2019s infrastructure. We\u2019ve already invested $12 billion into the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, and our $3 billion fund in this Budget will be squarely focused on projects that are ready to create jobs but also tackle issues like water infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut perhaps there is no better example of a way this Budget can bring together the challenges of today and the challenges of yesterday than the jobs it will create in regional New Zealand to restore our environment. Whether it\u2019s working with iwi on pest control to prevent the loss of North Island forests, working with farmers to tackle everything from wallaby to fencing waterways or stabilising riverbanks, or whether it\u2019s working with council, local government, local businesses, and the Department of Conservation to employ thousands of people to restore wetlands, boost predator control, and improve tracks and huts, this is win-win. Wilding pine controls alone require on-foot labour, chainsaw operators, heavy machinery operators, and helicopters. It has a knock-on effect to accommodation, vehicles, repairs maintenance, and even food providers. In total, this Budget creates almost 11,000 jobs for our environment, for our regions, and for our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat brings me to the final challenge I wish to speak to today, and that is child poverty. We know this has the potential to get even worse than where we are now. While we moved quickly even before lockdown, providing increasing Government support to those out of work through benefit increases and through the winter energy payment, today again we focus on kids, with a major expansion of the food in schools programme. We already started this programme, and now we expand healthy lunches into schools so that for around 200,000 more children across the country, school lunches will be part of their everyday. Based on what we know, this will also create an estimated 2,000 jobs in local communities\u2014jobs that can sometimes cater for the care requirements of sole parents, of mums and of dads who might have care responsibilities on their own. And equally important: it will mean in the tough days ahead we can guarantee our most vulnerable kids will get a filling, healthy lunch every school day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI want to finish where I started: on our businesses, on our job creators, on our innovators, and on those who have carried such a huge burden over these last weeks and months. We know they have faced challenges too\u2014challenges that do pre-date COVID. They include the cost of innovation, the need to constantly make productivity gains, and the challenge of growing beyond New Zealand, if you choose to make that leap. Many small businesses do need extra support to look beyond just the domestic borders of New Zealand\u2014to look to export into Australia and beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why this Budget provides incentives and grants to encourage e-commerce, train more digital advisers, and provide information and support for small to medium sized enterprises wanting to incorporate e-commerce into their businesses. This is off the back of the significant work of the Small Business Council, which was made up of small-business owners, operators, and backers, who encouraged us to support small businesses to improve their productivity through these initiatives. It sees significant increase in support for entrepreneurs and businesses looking to invest in new products through research and development. This will help create jobs, and the jobs New Zealand needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EIt also puts $216 million into increasing the number of exporters who will be receiving intensive support from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE). It will also increase digital services and tools offered by NZTE. We know at this time that it has been our primary production, our food producers, and our exporters who have been the backbone through the lockdown, and they will continue to be our backbone. We need to support more of them to grow their exports, to bring more into those exports, and to position themselves well in the wake of the recovery. NZTE are well placed to do that, and we will support them to expand the businesses that they give one-on-one support to. We will trade on our brand. It is a brand entrenched in quality, in trust, and in respect of the products that New Zealand trade. Our response to COVID-19 has only further reinforced our brand as a country that invests in its people, that supports the health of its people, and that puts quality first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EI said yesterday that this Budget would be about jobs, jobs, jobs. In total, it seeks to save as many as 140,000 of them over the next two years and to support the growth of 370,000 more jobs over four years. [Interruption] In case the Opposition missed that\u2014370,000 more jobs over the next four years. This Budget sets out a clear plan to generate green jobs, rural jobs, jobs rebuilding crumbling infrastructure, and new training opportunities for those who need it. But even this is just stage one. You\u2019ve heard today about some of our sector recovery funds. We must keep working alongside those industries who have been most gravely affected. Tourism has a package announced today. In coming days we will do the same for arts, for sports, and for large events\u2014those who have been at the front line of COVID and its impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut, just as the science informing our health response evolved, so too will the economic situation both globally and domestically. It is for that reason that the finance Minister has announced today the next suite of actions we are putting in place but has also held back funds to tackle the next phase of our rebuild. That is what will be required to make sure we can be agile\u2014and as agile as we have been today. We know businesses crave certainty in order to plan how they will operate, and, while there is much we cannot predict in these uncertain times, what I can promise is that we know this is not the end of what we need to do. We will keep working with you. We will keep supporting workers and businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EYou can see the strength of the Government in this Budget, and I do want to thank our coalition partner\u2014our coalition partner, New Zealand First; our Deputy Prime Minister\u2014for the partnership bringing this Budget together today. I\u2019d also like to also thank our confidence and supply partner, the Greens, for their consistent advocacy to be bold in tackling the challenges of both today and tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003EBut, finally, I want to thank our Minister of Finance. Grant, thank you for your determination and for your compassion. Through this crisis you have acted to protect the jobs and livelihoods of millions of New Zealanders. Today, you deliver a Budget that will carry us through the crisis and get this economy moving and get us into growth as early as within a year, and that is a remarkable thing. So now we get on with it. We went hard and we went early to fight COVID-19, and that success has opened up economic opportunities. Now it\u2019s time to make the most of the head start New Zealand has with this economic recovery. This Budget shows how we are positioning New Zealand for that right now. It shows that this is not the time for business as usual; it\u2019s a time for a relentless focus on jobs, on training, and on education and the role they all can play to support our environment and our people. So let\u2019s begin our recovery. Let\u2019s rebuild, together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022026be021b4e545a08ca155dfb805e800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022026be021b4e545a08ca155dfb805e800\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Acknowledgments to our Cabinet colleagues and party Ministers: Tracey Martin, Shane Jones, and Ron Mark, under-secretary Fletcher Tabuteau, and to our caucus colleagues. Thank you for your support, your hard work, and successes announced today. We stand here today in support of the coalition Government\u2019s Budget. It\u2019s a Budget that responds aggressively to our present conditions, it\u2019s a Budget that will support our transition to recovery, and it\u2019s a Budget that has our people, New Zealanders, front and centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe COVID-19 pandemic is a completely new situation in which the coalition has very few familiar guidelines to shape our response. We are in unchartered waters. In this novel situation, we look to history to help guide our thinking about the Government\u2019s health and economic response and recovery strategies. US President Franklin Roosevelt\u2019s response to the Great Depression is one lesson to draw from. He had no playbook for his response and nor do we. We\u2019ve had to learn as we go, always with the health of our most vulnerable people foremost in our mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe first Labour Government, you\u2019ll recall, in 1935, responded to the ravages of the Great Depression with compassion and practical wisdom. The fourth Labour Government, in contrast, responded through ideology and blind devotion to neoliberal economic theory. The former tradition helped the many survive a massive disruption and its success settled public policy, even National Party policy, for the next 50 years; in stark contrast, the revolutionary tradition adopted by Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson favoured the few and left abandoned a lost generation of New Zealanders, cynically cast adrift as no longer economically viable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThis is a crisis where we need to park our ideology at the door. We can well recall at the beginning of the neoliberal experiment in 1984, its disciples saying \u201CFarming is a sunset industry\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dd74fa35bfb4588b381a6f9bd73fb95\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes, I remember that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206cf77ca9b86470a8aabcbf44e0a6046\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: You remember that? \u201CFarming is a sunset industry.\u201D Well, today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218dd2df88ea94be0bd7a6081bcd60c23\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He was one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022456fee1915e5489584a0a391192315a9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, today\u2014no, don\u2019t tell me it was one of them, because I was in the National Party at the time where they were giving\u2014that\u2019s Mr Brownlee\u2019s lot\u2014the architect of that Budget, Roger Douglas, eight out of 10 for his Budget. They were meant to be in the Opposition; they were acting like a bunch of fifth columnists\u2014unbelievable. I know you hate to remember it, but I remember it with telling concern that here we are in 2020 and they\u2019ve learnt so little. You know, Mr Bridges, my advice in the first day of the COVID crisis level 2 is to get a haircut and get a real job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say, \u201CFarming is\u201D\u2014they said\u2014\u201Da sunset industry\u201D. Well, let me ask you up there in the gallery, which industry is standing tall today? Which industry is standing tall today? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d67f930bd1b14668b9a220b66ef4b320\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: David Lange\u2014over and over and over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236b37c2c8a94de5b81646242eb0a675\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: And for any seeking to defend with blind ideology, like Mr Brownlee, again, opens his mouth, lets the wind blow his tongue around. He uses these occasions to make a constant fool of himself. I want to tell the listeners in New Zealand today, that man shouting like a lunatic is Mr Brownlee from Christchurch\u2014the woodwork teacher. For any seeking to defend\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba93fdb181440a1907a4c2ef87c05cd\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there you go. Put the boot into the workers, as usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee70d04860fb41ed874e22252ed0c469\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Here he goes again. Can you hear him? See noise, he thinks, is volume, and volume, he thinks, is substance. No, Mr Brownlee, I\u2019ll give you the short lessons in life. Just close your mouth, open your ears, you just might learn something for the first time. For any seeking to defend blind economic theory there are countless other examples to destroy the validity of that belief. Desired ends and means need to match, and this coalition Government\u2019s third Budget locates the coalition\u2019s COVID-19 response closer to the first tradition, while it utterly rejects the second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EDid you hear Mr Bridges say, when he said that the Government is going to bring in new taxes? Mr Bridges, it\u2019s 2009. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f21e31a5881d4112b3ae09d13793b739\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d002e1dc7d30406bbc70520024a8ce21\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. It\u2019s not \u201899. In \u201899 you were going out, but it\u2019s 2009\u2014Mr Bridges, it\u2019s 2009, and Mr Key had promised no new taxes. Why are you laughing? I\u2019m giving you a reminder of history, and it\u2019s not so long ago; it\u2019s only 11 years. So it\u2019s 2009, he promises no new taxes, and then he put up GST. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd1fb24c4e9423788f6ce67e0acbbb4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: He dropped income tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f6c64ca7c02470abd8c77a1b43e821e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: And dropped income tax for his mates\u2014for his mates, unbelievable. You know, you can\u2019t help some people, but you can keep on trying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say, we have the ends and the means to match. We have our eyes wide open about the impact of this crisis. Every ounce of our collective effort is going to be required to fix it right here, right now, in the short term, the medium term, and the long term. Can I just say to the National Party over there\u2014looking somewhat bewildered and saddened\u2014that if they don\u2019t listen, the numbers in that gallery are going to be the numbers who don\u2019t come back to the National Party at the next election. Have a good look. Keep quiet and learn something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ESimply put, the people are our best resource to drive our economic recovery, and we, here, back New Zealanders. We owe New Zealanders nothing less. Their commitment to keep their vulnerable neighbours and families safe is one of the most outstanding community-wide efforts in our country\u2019s history. And in recognition of this, we\u2019ll be taking to our Cabinet colleagues a proposal to create a special COVID commemorative medal\u2014a CCM for service to New Zealand communities. The medal will acknowledge the many New Zealanders who led their communities since the pandemic hit our shores. Front-line health staff such as doctors, nurses, as well as community leaders of all types will be eligible to be nominated for, say, 5,000 medals that will be for a lifetime. The honour would follow the current honours and awards process. Because we\u2019re going through a historical moment in time, we should, as a society, celebrate the many contributions citizens have made to keep our team of 5 million safe. The COVID commemorative medal would be, as I said, for life, and we see it being passed on to heirs and successors long into the future\u2014a permanent reminder of a time in our nation\u2019s life when we drew upon the best of our national character to protect life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, the Government knows that it must balance the immediate needs of our people with long-term needs to refashion a vibrant future economy. When this lockdown started, New Zealand First knew that the country faced a massive economic downturn. We also knew that the Government would need to intervene to keep business running and people employed. We might not always get everything perfect, but the coalition is willing to try anything and do everything to help business survive and save jobs by providing a cushion as the country transitions to a new equilibrium. This year\u2019s Budget is about recovery, and the Government is certainly using its balance sheet to assist the post-lockdown economic phase of our response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ESo while all the rules of fiscal prudence are now obsolete, the coalition is committed to maintaining our comparatively low debt position against those countries we compare ourselves with. And you can\u2019t compare the same debt as the previous Government. We\u2019re paying three times less in interest now than three, four, and five years ago, when this group over here, in response to the crisis of corruption and fraud at Wall Street called the global financial crisis, decided that they would go from a Government debt of $10 billion to $82 billion, and they have the effrontery, with those high interest rates at that time, to say that they could do better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIn fact, Mr Bridges today said that we had no experience in how to run a country. Really? I mean, Mr Bridges, what\u2019s your business experience? Dare I say it, Mr Goldsmith, what\u2019s your business experience? And, Mr Goldsmith, if, because of the latest polls, as an MP, your job is gone, I suggest you start looking hard at Epsom, because on the list you won\u2019t make it. I suggest you get real\u2014eyes wide open politically\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f92acb90453e4548b0dd37acbf0ac85a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s that member\u2019s seat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7f82a8141094a619a0ffddda3a95424\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and ensure\u2014what\u2019s this member going to do? Go on to be, again, a responsible, permanent face of New Zealand politics. Where am I going to be? I know, but where are you going to be? Well, he\u2019s going to be applying for one of those applications that we made possible today in the Budget! We even thought of him. We\u2019ve got the application even going till October, when he\u2019s had time to get his three months, and then find out what reality is all over again. Can I just say, I cannot believe somebody over there shouting, who\u2019s been the leader of a party of one since 2011, getting all the parliamentary largesse as a party. Who does he lead? Himself. No wonder he\u2019s confused\u2014no wonder he\u2019s confused\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276670d1abf944fabb0442f2a13b08aba\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And he still won\u2019t listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc615d6e2601431c8d7561e662954b84\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and he still won\u2019t listen. Amazing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that all the rules of physical prudence are now obsolete. The coalition\u2019s committed to maintaining our comparatively low debt position against those countries that we compare ourselves with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd01e88913b447ca9a78e3cb4b0f14a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Say that again louder!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa44abfc1f247b8a6fb2c23d6fe618f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f9aa7783474afea3c12346d18d922a\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Say that again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e0f6b9d8514bc1945972b6c0d17db2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Say again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f105492d837a49da9615cc06b923c553\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Say the fiscal prudence thing again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8cc9a50624c48f3a5e1249888371860\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I say \u201CSnapchat that\u201D. That\u2019s what the rest of the world says. You Snapchat that, sunshine, all right? We want to get there as quickly as possible, but this is a marathon; not a sprint. We\u2019ll need all of us working together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe Government initiated a wage subsidy scheme early on. The targeted extension of that, announced today, is an example of balancing urgent need with greater fiscal targeting. Today, we welcome the $4 billion business support package. A significant change in the tax system and low interest-free loans will support businesses to recover and help retain jobs. Even Maggie Thatcher learnt that if you can keep a business going, it costs you a whole lot less than trying to start one new one. New Zealand First understands the crucial role that business plays in creating the nation\u2019s wealth, and today\u2019s announcements, while they will help, are not the end of our support. Where the Government could, and we should, we\u2019ve changed regulations and legislation to increase economic activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EMost notable is fast-tracking the Resource Management Act consenting process to spur job creation. Congratulations to the Hon David Parker for doing quickly what they wouldn\u2019t do for nine long years\u2014nine long years of utter inertia. They were so desperate that they started blaming New Zealand First for not changing the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264261f320a404cf8b63ed86f245a5be7\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd622a8e2b284f57b248c635f82b9eeb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Resource Management Act. Who, Mr Brownlee, was in Government? You, with your other three parties\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff4fe23e7bf14cdf9e13bdcb41a45a57\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I hope the Greens are with the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ad4e2e4e6c4eb2be87d87d1220983b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or New Zealand First? He is so perverse this man that he thinks shouting in some stentorian idiocy substitutes for being an MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c72e2a1311984fbfbf509895146742aa\u0022\u003EHon Anne Tolley\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s your claim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c8de3780774189ba0100c421acdae8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here comes the member from the East Coast. Tell me, what happened to the railway line between Wairoa and Gisborne that she is meant to be in charge of? [Interruption] I can\u2019t hear you. What did she do? Hey, I\u2019ve got it: doughnuts\u2014doughnuts for all that time. She\u2019s got these people on the backbench that think that shouting out somehow is going to save them. Gentlemen, I know the polls: it\u2019s not. The latest polls that Mr Farrar gave you say that that bunch up there in number symbolically are all gone. Now, if you are concerned, give me a phone call, I\u2019ll try to help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, the Government could, as I say, change regulations; Mr Parker did. So you\u2019ve heard us say, time and again, that if a job can be filled by a New Zealander\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c52db2bb5443a88e0e4a09d1bd618a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ea875eff42466dbc7371e2a4d55820\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then that job should be filled by a New Zealander. Oh, Mr Seymour laughs. He finds it a novel precept. He thinks it\u2019s laughable. Here\u2019s the guy from Epsom, Mr Seymour, who sees less every day and he\u2019s shouting out here again. This is a guy from a party of one, these last nine years. That would make me modest if I was in his position, but not him. No, no, shouting out like a fool, and he\u2019ll be opposed and he\u2019ll be gone. National will take him out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65e5254b84f498dae0cffbdc026de3e\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Bye, bye, Winston.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282f533de2ca74a108f49e96f7182b746\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: You know, there will be a very large number of people\u2014you know, as Muldoon used to say, \u201CI\u2019ll be around long after you\u2019ve gone, son.\u201D Ha, ha! I\u2019m sorry but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7abfe756a2e4f1c84e5ef3fa414e182\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Muldoon said that to me, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022314564969a32408da3b22999479e8d2e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, did he say it to you, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297062a8a7d184dce8c68fc2256e3bb52\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acaf983039274913b0b8f8f68423152a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: All right, well he\u2019s wrong there. But I\u2019m right here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere will be a very large number of people needing employment or redeployment, especially for many thousands employed in battered tourism and hospitality sectors. Budget 2020\u2019s trades training package of over $1.4 billion will provide opportunities for New Zealanders of all ages to acquire new practical skills as they adapt\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ace91972e848c4aee088e473c41220\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bac6d07e8b4e4914b48238c07f419903\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to dramatically\u2014I\u2019m able to write my own speech; not like that nincompoop over there, I can write my own speech, always have, unlike him. Ha! He shouts out, \u201CWho wrote this speech?\u201D because apparently he doesn\u2019t write his own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re talking about dramatically changed labour market conditions, and this Budget provides also $3 billion\u2014$3 billion\u2014to infrastructure projects across the country. That\u2019s in addition to $12 billion from the New Zealand Upgrade Programme. Minister for Infrastructure and champion of the provinces, Shane Jones, will be leading the charge on implementation and delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ESo, in short, we walk the talk; not the other way around\u2014just talk. We walk the talk. We under-promise and we over-perform. When people ask us for help, we turn up with the money; we don\u2019t say to Defence, \u201CWe\u2019ll give you $20 billion\u201D and don\u2019t give them a cent. No, no, Mr Mark can talk about the billions that he\u2019s got\u20144.5\u2014since he\u2019s been a Minister with respect to defence. Dramatically different to their opinion when they had the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EYou know, our focus is threefold: immediate job creation, income growth, and construction activity to be under way within coming months. Government support, however, is not unlimited, so we\u2019re targeting assistance to those who need it most. It means striking a fair balance between social need and personal responsibility. All New Zealanders need to be productive, and if we\u2014New Zealanders\u2014can help in any way to fund our society, then we all should. We owe it to taxpayers, current and future, to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EIt pays to remember that COVID-19 is a global crisis. But before the COVID-19 pandemic, the global economy was already in serious difficulty. Slow economic growth and massive accumulation of debt reinforced that fundamental factors behind the 2008-2009 global financial crisis and recession were never resolved; they were just plastered over. The global system had received a massive shock, and the chickens have come over to roost, and some of us have been saying it for a long, long time. We are the ones who are going to learn from the COVID-19 experience. Clearly some in this Parliament have no capacity to learn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003ECan I just say that New Zealand may be tracking well but many, many countries are not. We anticipate the second order disruptions will kick in as the global economy struggles to adapt and while the risk of second wave COVID-19 outbreaks threatens to prevent an orderly return to economic wellbeing. Thus the notion of returning to business as usual fades by the day as global output collapses and unemployment soars. With that warning, we know our destination: a new normal for New Zealand\u2019s recovering economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWhat does a new normal look like? Well, it means our team of five million will need to draw on each other\u2019s strengths. We need greater autonomy for the New Zealand economy. This means having the ability to grow it and make it and use it rather than waste it and waste valuable offshore funds importing it. As we\u2019ve said, over and over again, it\u2019s time to put up the shutters to offshore ownership of the New Zealand economy, and to go back to owning as much as we possibly can. That would provide us with greater sovereignty over future choices. Overseas investment should be encouraged only where it expands our employment wealth creation and export capacity in a way that is clearly new and not just an offshore takeover of what we\u2019re already doing. Overseas investment can be a good thing, but it must be balanced in terms of New Zealand\u2019s economic needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThere are lessons in the COVID-19 pandemic and worldwide economic collapse; only a fool would ignore them. The Budget\u2019s a keystone milestone and key milestone in our response to COVID-19. We can liken this moment to something Winston Churchill said in 1942. He said, \u201CNow \u2026 is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.\u201D Our battle with COVID-19 is momentarily paused, but we can still lose it if we don\u2019t remain vigilant. Five million New Zealanders are winning the battle; now we ask them to fight again, a battle that is even harder\u2014it\u2019s for the country\u2019s economic prosperity. If they show the same resolve that they have so far, we\u2019ll win. Failure\u2019s not an option. All of us New Zealanders need to know that not reaching our goals won\u2019t be through a lack of ability but a lack of commitment. The coalition has the commitment to see it through but we need New Zealand\u2019s help. After observing the country\u2019s brilliant effort to keep the virus at bay, we know we\u2019ll get that help. Our challenge, our quest, and our commitment can be summed up in three words\u2014it\u2019s J, B, and B: jobs, business, and balance. Together we will win.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022084f546d60ab4eb3b2906f56120f9315\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022084f546d60ab4eb3b2906f56120f9315\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ki a koutou \u014Dku hoa P\u0101remata, huri noa i Te Whare, ng\u0101 mihi o te Tau Hou ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E[To the House, greetings. To you, my parliamentary colleagues throughout the House, happy New Year to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe day that New Zealand declared a national state of emergency and went into level 4 lockdown, there were 50 new cases\u201450 new cases on just that one day; 50 cases that took the total number of cases from 155 to 205. That\u2019s a one-third increase in the total number of cases from just the day before. At that time, it seemed that we were on our way up an exponential J-curve of human misery, mortality, and mourning. And on that day, as we passed the motion to declare a national state of emergency, I said that everything that we do from now onwards we are doing to protect the people that we know and love and also those that we don\u2019t. And over the past seven weeks, people in every home and every community and every business across New Zealand have done exactly that. There are, today, only a handful more active cases in total as there were new cases the day that we went into lockdown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOver the past seven weeks, every one of us has protected and cared for every one of us. But none have done more than those we have come to know as our essential workers. These are the people who left their families every day and risked their own health every day so that the rest of us could be cared for and get everything we needed\u2014like the ingredients of sourdough bread: our nurses and our pharmacists, doctors and midwives, paramedics and social workers, aged-care and community workers and caregivers more generally, our police officers, our customs officers, those who worked to get our homeless into emergency housing, our farmers and food producers, our delivery drivers, our supermarket staff and dairy owners\u2014the people who, it turns out, are actually the ones that make our economy run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThese people have always been essential. And yet there are people in this House, members of this House, who still do not believe that these people deserve to be paid enough to live on. I have listened to the Leader of the Opposition thank our essential workers for carrying this country through the state of emergency\u2014and they do deserve our thanks, of course. But they cannot eat thanks, Mr Bridges. They cannot heat their homes with thanks. They do deserve our thanks, but they need our support. And now that the worst of the health crisis does appear to be behind us, let\u2019s make sure that these people have the lives and the livelihoods that they truly deserve. That is what this Budget is all about: livelihoods, jobs\u2014jobs that see us through this crisis and that craft a future that works for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EActually, Mr Bridges said he\u2019s got a five-point plan. Well, I\u2019m going to do it in four. This Budget is about, first of all, keeping as many people in their jobs as possible. Second, where that\u2019s not possible, it\u2019s about getting people the training and the education that they need to get a new job as soon as possible. Third, it\u2019s about supporting people who don\u2019t have a job to be able to support themselves and make ends meet and provide for their families in the meantime. And fourth, it is about investing directly in the creation of new jobs\u2014jobs that provide a good day\u2019s pay, doing meaningful work, building an even better country than the one that went into lockdown just seven weeks ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOne of the best ways to create meaningful, well-paid jobs quickly is by investing in nature. From today, our Government will invest $1.1 billion in green jobs, restoring our natural landscapes, our native bush, our wetlands, our coastlines, and our waterways. That\u2019s about 11,000 jobs over the next four years of meaningful, well-paid work for people to access so that they can continue to provide for their families whilst we weather the economic storm of the pandemic crisis. This $1.1 billion investment will not only create jobs in our hardest hit regions, it will help to ensure that future generations now and in the future have healthier forests, rivers, and harbours. And it will help to soak up a fair amount of carbon dioxide too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOur jobs for nature programme includes $433 million for restoring wetlands, rivers, and estuaries all around New Zealand and, in particular, our country\u2019s largest harbour, the Kaipara. There is $200 million for a new jobs for nature fund, partnering the Department of Conservation with councils, tourism, businesses, communities, iwi and hap\u016B all over the country; $147 million for pest control and eradication advancing the vision of a predator-free New Zealand and working with iwi to save North Island forests; $154 million for the Department of Conservation to work with the Queen Elizabeth the Second National Trust, regional councils, landholder groups, and farmers to roll out jobs that improve indigenous biodiversity on both public and private land\u2014you see, I thought they\u2019d like that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere is $100 million for wilding conifer control\u2014also on both public and private land; $27 million to get on top of the wallaby population in the Bay of Plenty, in the Waikato, in Canterbury, and in Otago; $7 million to control pests and weeds in riverbeds and to eradicate aquatic weeds in Lakes Wakatipu and W\u0101naka. There is so much work to be done in this country making things better for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAll Governments, ours included, should be judged on what they do to improve people\u2019s quality of life in a sustained and a sustainable way. Now, since we came to power, we have been advancing towards that goal, laying the path towards a net zero-carbon economy, building thousands of new homes, and making education more accessible for more people. And then the pandemic arrived. Almost immediately, COVID-19 revealed one particularly troubling aspect of our economy: just how fragile it is. It showed that we have been operating on a very thin margin for many years. We squeezed everything out of global supply chains in the name of just-in-time efficiencies, and the pandemic has shown us just how vulnerable that system can be. But we also squeezed everything out of our people and the pandemic has shown just how vulnerable they are when a crisis strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe vast inequalities of our economy may be easier to see now, but the truth is they existed long before COVID-19 came to New Zealand. So if we want to truly build back better this time, we have to deal with the underlying conditions of inequality and environmental degradation that our economy has for decades made worse. Then, and only then, can every part of the economy go to work to create prosperity that is more equitable, more resilient, and more restorative of the natural world that we depend on for our very survival.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, if we are going to bring forward billions of dollars of our children\u2019s money and invest it in rebuilding our economy, then we have both a moral and an economic responsibility to put that money to work on the long-term challenges facing our country that our children would otherwise inherit and have to deal with and pay for themselves. Every dollar that we borrow from them to get through the pandemic crisis is a dollar that they cannot spend getting through another crisis\u2014like the climate crisis or the housing crisis; like the crisis in our rivers and our lakes, our oceans and in our forests; like the failing water pipes under our towns and in our cities; like our ever-expanding landfills; or the need for more and cleaner power to get us through to a zero-carbon economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThat is why the protagonists of our recovery story are not convention centres but people. Putting people into work restoring nature alongside the huge investment we are making to build 8,000 new public homes will direct money into the parts of the economy where most people earn their livelihoods. Whether it\u2019s selling food in a cafe, running a local business providing services to the community, or providing after-school care, these are the parts of the economy that people depend on. They are the parts of the economy that are sustained when public investment is directed at getting people into work and earning money that they then spend in their local community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Green Party has always said that investing in nature is the best way to create good, well-paid jobs. Twelve years ago our predecessors in the Green Party campaigned for a \u201CGreen New Deal\u201D in response to the great financial crisis. As an Opposition party at the time, of course, they weren\u2019t in a position to implement it. Put simply, this Budget shows what it means to have Green voices in the Government\u2014like the voice of Marama Davidson, who, when she took on the co-leadership of the Greens, also took up the leadership of our campaign to end child poverty. Well, today\u2019s Budget scales up the food in schools programme, which, when we were in Opposition, we fought for, from 8,000 to 200,000 students, with $218 million of new investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman has campaigned for the rights of migrants and the refugees who will find it easier to rebuild their families after Budget 2020\u2019s injection of $33 million into the family reunification system; and Gareth Hughes has for a decade pushed to get people into work insulating homes, making them warmer and more affordable. Budget 2020 has put an additional $56 million into the Warmer Kiwi Homes initiative; and Jan Logie\u2019s all-of-Government response to family and sexual violence has picked up an additional $202 million in today\u2019s Budget. Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s work on behalf of students, particularly in recent weeks, has helped to secure a $20 million hardship fund to help students to weather the pandemic crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EJulie Anne Genter\u2019s work with Phil Twyford has helped to deliver $1.6 billion in this Budget\u2019s infrastructure upgrade for metropolitan rail in Auckland and Wellington, buses and cycling in Queenstown, Auckland\u2019s new SkyPath, as well as extra help funding councils to expand footpaths and roll out temporary cycleways\u2014and that, I have to say, is on top of the $1.1 billion for the intercity rail network and the Interislander that Budget 2020 also delivers. Kia ora, m\u0101tua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd, of course, there\u2019s Eugenie Sage. It\u2019s due to her groundwork over the past 2\u00BD years that today our Government is able to scale up our investment in nature as the most essential infrastructure and the best job creator in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203fd985b-4fb8-4111-ba38-5033a254d962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241cd80b77df34c628ae6f000ae768236\u0022\u003EBrett Hudson\u003C/span\u003E: Digging holes in the forest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202d6a5ef77d84a649ae24ae1479b15b6\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Why do you hate nature, Brett? This is a Budget that does what New Zealanders sent Green MPs here to do\u2014improve wellbeing, provide support to those who need it the most, and restore our natural heritage. This is a Budget that understands that the true source of New Zealand\u2019s wealth and prosperity are its natural and its human capital. It is a great start, and it is just a start. The sheer scale of this stimulus that\u2019s required to get us through the recovery means that we have an opportunity now to embrace the potential of good science and good Government to support a clean-tech, high-value economy that works for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAs we plan the next phase of our economic recovery, we have a choice. We can choose to direct this stimulus towards a more circular, regenerative economy, an economy that is not degenerative by design but that is regenerative by design. If we do this, ours can be a future where people have everything that they need to lead fulfilling and meaningful and prosperous lives, where simple everyday tasks like making the morning coffee, or travelling to and from work, or warming our homes are powered by clean renewable energy; a future where, instead of heading for landfill, the leftovers from one production process, be they food scraps or scrap metal, become the source materials for the next, and where the water coming out of our taps is safe to drink and never runs dry, and the roofs over our heads are safe and warm\u2014above all, a future that is more equitable, more prosperous, more innovative, and all within planetary limits. What we need in the long term, then, is not a recovery but a renewal\u2014a renewal of our relationship with the natural world and with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis pandemic has opened a window on to something new, something better. We can see it\u2019s out there, but the question is whether we have the courage to step outside, to find the space that we need to reimagine the economic house of cards that we\u2019ve built for ourselves. There is so much good work to be done making things better for everyone. Of course, we can choose to stay inside and be burdened with the knowledge that the people who keep us well and make our economy run will continue to be underpaid, that our precious wild spaces will continue to be decimated, and our atmosphere polluted, or we can step outside and reimagine our world anew. This Budget is the introductory chapter to a longer-term vision for a more prosperous, more equitable, and greener New Zealand. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002204d5b8354f564a6182b55f117dda2daf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204d5b8354f564a6182b55f117dda2daf\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Many countries have faced the challenge of rebuilding from destruction. There are two basic strategies that they have tried to take. One is the path down which this Government is going. It\u2019s trying to plan an economy from the Beehive, and I have no doubt that the MPs on the Government benches are sincere. They really do believe they can get New Zealanders back to work by borrowing, spending, and investing money better than the people who earned it. The other path is an outward-looking recovery led by private sector job growth, and the record of history is crystal clear. Countries that look inward for jobs and growth find neither. Those that replace the private plans of five million individual New Zealanders with their own blunt plan funnelled through the bureaucracy of Wellington make us poorer, not richer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis Budget, unfortunately, throws so much money at so many problems that we end up with debt that couldn\u2019t have been imagined by any party in this Parliament, even just a few months ago. There\u2019s $5 billion for \u201CKiwiBuild 2\u201D, I\u2019ll call it; K\u0101inga Ora, I think, is what the Government prefers. You\u2019d think they might have learnt the first time. There\u2019s a $4.6 billion blowout on trains and ferries; that\u2019s Winston Peters\u2019 bauble this year. Now, if you thought that his speech and his rhetoric was old-fashioned, look at the things he\u2019s wasting taxpayers\u2019 money on. The guy doesn\u2019t even know which century he\u2019s in. There\u2019s a billion dollars for some Kiwis to go bush\u2014I call it the \u201CBarry Crump Fund\u201D. So you\u2019re going to have some people planting pine trees, you\u2019re going to have other people pulling down wilding pines, and some other people shooting a wallaby infestation caused by the Government\u2019s ban on semi-automatic firearms. And the only question is whether or not there\u2019s going to be more or less pine trees by the time the exercise is over. My bet is on the wallabies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a $400 million tourism fund, and the press release, I would estimate, is a million dollars a letter, because there is so little detail, the Minister of Tourism hasn\u2019t a clue. He was asked on the Epidemic Response Committee what tourism was, and\u2014I\u2019m not making this up\u2014he said, \u201CTourism is hard to define.\u201D No wonder he doesn\u2019t know how to spend $400 million dollars on tourism, but that\u2019s this Government\u2019s plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s over $200 million to reinforce the message that it\u2019s not a parent\u2019s job to send their kids to school with their own lunch. And the sadness of that is that those kids are going to learn over a long period, the hard way, that there is no such thing as a free lunch, because they\u2019re going to grow up in a New Zealand with triple the public debt\u2014$140 billion, over $70,000 per household borrowed by the Government in their name in this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe other problem is what\u2019s not in the Budget. I couldn\u2019t believe it. I thought, we\u2019ve got an idea in ACT\u2019s alternative budget that\u2019s so obvious the Government will steal it. Let\u2019s put front and centre investing in public health and having the world\u2019s smartest borders. It should be so obvious. We are an island nation dependent on trade, on export education, on tourism, that\u2019s just been cut off from the rest of the world. We\u2019re a country that had to go into the bluntest lockdown, the bluntest public health approach imaginable that has flattened the economy and the livelihoods of so many New Zealanders. Why? Because we didn\u2019t have the public health technology to fight a virus like Taiwan did. We didn\u2019t have the ability to see what was coming and track and trace a virus like Taiwan did, and we weren\u2019t able to achieve only six deaths with no lockdown. That\u2019s the gold standard. That\u2019s what ACT\u2019s alternative budget calls for. That\u2019s what the private sector needs to get going again and create jobs, and I couldn\u2019t see it in this Government\u2019s Budget. That is an enormous fail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ETreasury is forecasting that there\u2019ll be no COVID-19 restrictions by next April; by April Fools\u2019 Day next year, we\u2019ll have no more restrictions. Well, that\u2019s a heroic forecast and borderline fraudulent when the Government hasn\u2019t made it a priority to control COVID without restrictions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is missing, because there\u2019s so much money thrown at so many problems in such an unguided and wasteful way, is tax cuts. There\u2019s two ways to do stimulus: there\u2019s take and borrow money and throw it at every problem the Government can imagine, or stop taking so much of people\u2019s money in the first place, and the ACT Party\u2019s alternative budget would give a year of GST down at 10 percent, putting $6 billion back in the hands of the businesses and the people that earned it. The ACT Party\u2019s tax cut, which would be permanent, would be $3 billion of reduction in income tax with a broad middle income tax cut, dropping the 30 percent rate to 17.5 percent. That budget would allow the Government to spend only an extra $40 billion. It would have saved the next generation, and the current generation, of New Zealanders $100 billion of borrowing that this Government is about to undertake, and how? The other thing that\u2019s missing from this Budget is any kind of analysis or focus on improving the quality of spending already there. So on the one hand, the Government says, \u201CThese are extraordinary times.\u201D That\u2019s their approach to expenditure. Then they say, \u201CIt\u2019s business as usual.\u201D That\u2019s the approach to existing expenditure. So we have extraordinary new expenditure, business as usual normal expenditure, and a Budget blowout, and $140 billion\u201470 grand per household\u2014in extra debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen we have the question of why it\u2019s so hard to get stuff done. The Government has recently discovered what the private sector knew about the Resource Management Act all along. It makes it damn difficult to get things done. And the Government\u2019s solution is to exempt its own projects from the Resource Management Act, leaving the burden on everyone else. Well, the ACT Party says that\u2019s the wrong way round. We should be replacing the Resource Management Act with the better urban planning initiative from the Productivity Commission so that everybody can build more easily to get this economy going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s always been more capital overseas than in New Zealand, and nobody can create jobs\u2014not even the Government\u2014without capital. The Government\u2019s approach of becoming even more xenophobic about foreign direct investment is one of the most damaging initiatives in this Budget. The ACT Party\u2019s alternative budget would lift the restrictions on foreign direct investment for investors originating in friendly, democratic, OECD countries. That\u2019s the kind of initiative that we need in order to get our economy moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve nearly run out of time in this speech when there\u2019s so much more to say, and that\u2019s a shame because people need to see how stark the difference is. On the one hand, you\u2019ve got the Government of KiwiBuild that wants to rebuild our whole economy with your money. On the other hand, we have freedom, free markets, and a job-rich, private sector - led recovery that New Zealanders deserve. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022523ca23b654b482faa5d7d8fd40faa6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022523ca23b654b482faa5d7d8fd40faa6a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227539d0a654a846a087d322e2e70604c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227539d0a654a846a087d322e2e70604c5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye; of the contrary opinion will say No. The Ayes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa78ed8d33440eda2db60a39c00ae01\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226767d7a82d20423b8651d6797fa20680\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A party vote is called for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229152b5e382c34cb2a789f7fe76f89534\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think you misheard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860178c503cc4e83aefa01fa5d945732\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, wait, wait, wait. I apparently misheard Mr Woodhouse when he called for a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e0fe47d0ba04c5ea3ba8f136debc612\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: A hearty bloke, I said!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e945c159094e098c1b2155e8fb39f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want one or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f215a045eb4c67b18659c108b9f504\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da36dfbe42b14c4cbaa53cbfd94b41df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No? All right. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229168c9bab7e54a21a487a345a2750b6f\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e96108ce0ea4d9fbb6af2599ad42fb3\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022475617a0bfc346a0bc94f9899dcfa78c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022475617a0bfc346a0bc94f9899dcfa78c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction, first reading, and referral to a select committee of the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), and the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill; and the introduction and passing through all stages of the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill, the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill, and the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EAs has long been the custom on Budget days, the Government intends to move urgency to progress legislation that delivers on some of the Budget\u2019s priorities and addresses issues that need a rapid response. This year, those of course include our response to COVID-19. Three bills will receive a first reading and be referred to select committee; three others will pass through all of their stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ETwo of the bills are concerned with overseas investment, the landscape of which has greatly changed as a result of COVID-19. The Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill contains measures that need to be put in place urgently to mitigate the economic effects of COVID-19, and we\u2019re referring that bill to the Finance and Expenditure Committee for 10 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) proposes measures that allow risks posed by foreign investment to be managed more effectively. This bill will not have a shortened select committee referral, but it\u2019s important that the committee is aware of the issues that it covers in order to enable them to consider the first bill effectively. The Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill strengthens the integrity of the forest supply chain. COVID-19 of course has highlighted the need to increase the resilience of this very critical sector as quickly as possible, and the bill will go to select committee for a shortened period of three weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill enacts measures to combat tobacco smuggling and secure Crown revenue from taxes on tobacco, and, as such, it\u2019s closely linked to the Budget. It is important to have the bill enacted now so that preparations can be made for its provisions to take effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill addresses the delays in the Family Court processes that have occurred since the process was reformed in 2014. It\u2019s urgently needed to speed up the resolution of conflict, including family violence issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill allows the Remuneration Authority to make temporary reductions to the salaries of elected politicians and senior public officials in response to COVID-19. The need for that to happen urgently is self-evident. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI do commend this motion to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022264ba1e8845e4c4ab1fc7d734673ca5e\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5ca388c5b9d448f92e9bfa9c70301e5\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7ecebf145da485ca6f9bd0da45c832a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7ecebf145da485ca6f9bd0da45c832a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 25 May 2020 and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during every evening on a day where there is a sitting day of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting in the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis bill contains measures which the Government considers are needed to be put in place urgently to mitigate the economic effects of COVID-19. As we restore, recover, and rebuild the economy from the effects of COVID-19, it\u2019s imperative that we protect New Zealand\u2019s long-term interests. The bill\u2019s purpose is to ensure that the risks posed by foreign investment can be managed effectively while reducing the regulatory burden of the screening process, and so to support the role of productive foreign investment in our recovery. In particular, we need to minimise the possibility that some cornerstone businesses in our productive economy are sold in a way contrary to our national interest while the pandemic is causing the value of many enterprises to fall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis is one of two bills I\u2019m introducing as a package. The other, which follows, is the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), and it contains the remainder of the provisions that have been included in the previously introduced Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 2). It\u2019s my intention that the provisions of this urgent bill that are permanent, which include the national interest test, will be subject to full select committee scrutiny through the normal process of Parliament\u2019s consideration of the No.\u00A03 bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe COVID-19 global pandemic and related economic downturn has changed the foreign investment risk environment. Falling enterprise values are increasing opportunities for overseas investors to acquire ordinarily productive firms or strategically important assets at fire sale values without Government scrutiny. That reduced value may not reflect the importance of the business to our economy, and interim controls are needed to protect our national interest. Some of those businesses may be best kept in New Zealand ownership to help our recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESuch a sale can on occasions also result in risks to New Zealand\u2019s national security or an offshore transfer of knowledge and jobs. New Zealand is not alone in recognising the need to increase oversight of foreign investment in response to COVID-19. Australia, Canada, and a number of European countries have already taken steps to manage these risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EEqually, productive foreign investment will play an important role in New Zealand\u2019s economic recovery. Other parts of the current screening regime unnecessarily limit New Zealand businesses\u2019 access to the productive foreign investment they need to survive the crisis and thrive in the recovery. The bill I introduce today seeks to introduce these issues by introducing specific issues to increase oversight of foreign investment in response to COVID-19 as well as broader tools to ensure that we can manage risks associated with investment in our most sensitive assets. We\u2019re cutting red tape to increase our attractiveness to the sort of foreign investment we need for our economic recovery, and we\u2019re strengthening our ability to enforce the Act to ensure these new tools to increase oversight operate effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Government needs the ability to rapidly respond to foreign investment risks and protect essential interests at this time of unprecedented crisis. This bill introduces a new emergency notification regime which will require overseas persons to notify the Overseas Investment Office of proposed investments of, generally, 25 percent or more in an existing business. Instead of the normal threshold of at least $100 million, the temporary threshold will be zero; it\u2019s what Australia\u2019s done too. This screening power will allow the Government to assess these transactions and, if necessary, consider whether they\u2019re contrary to New Zealand\u2019s national interest or whether they should be approved, perhaps on conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI expect the large majority of transactions will be triaged and approved to proceed 10 working days after notification. A much smaller number of transactions are expected to require a more thorough assessment against our national interest test. The lower threshold for the exercise of the national interest test is temporary. That power will be reviewed every 19 days and will only remain in place while New Zealand is suffering from the economic effects of COVID-19. The emergency notification power is in addition to two other tools that were originally part of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 2), and this bill carries forward those two tools to close gaps in our screening regime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECurrently, the Government doesn\u2019t have sufficient ability to block transactions that are contrary to our national security, the functioning of our democracy, and other core national interests. This bill introduces a national interest test that can be applied to transactions already requiring consent under the existing regime. This power will be used rarely and carefully, and only if the Minister responsible for the Act considers that it\u2019s necessary. This will ordinarily be the Minister of Finance\u2014not the Minister to whom most Overseas Investment Act decisions are routinely delegated. This national interest test is modelled on the Australian equivalent, which also has a wide discretion rarely exercised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second new power is a narrow call-in power that will enable Government to review, on an enduring basis, investments in some strategically important businesses such as firms developing military and certain other advanced technologies that may pose significant risk to our national security or public order. That call-in power ensures that we can manage these risks permanently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EForeign direct investment remains important to support our recovery, and this bill also brings forward some measures to cut red tape. Cutting red tape means encouraging investment by reducing the number of low-risk transactions that are unnecessarily caught by the Act. It does this by addressing screening of purchases by majority New Zealand - owned and controlled entities; investments in land that are caught up currently but have little economic, cultural, or environmental value, perhaps because they sit next to, or an example is reserves, like a sports field\u2014sorry, I should say that again. An example is land that sits next to a reserve like a sports field that\u2019s currently caught, and there are also a range of small transactions that don\u2019t grant meaningful control over or access to sensitive New Zealand assets that are also currently caught which we\u2019re removing from the ambit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECutting red tape also means clarifying and simplifying the consent process, including focusing the requirements for assessing an investor\u2019s character on the factors that matter most, such as proven serious offences, and requiring applications to be processed to a deadline, giving investors the confidence they need to come here to invest. We\u2019re also bringing forward a number of new enforcement measures that were originally tabled as part of the No. 2 bill to ensure that our reforms operate effectively. I won\u2019t list them now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ERecognising that the use of some of the tools could be challenged in court, the bill includes provisions to ensure that natural justice rights and classified security information can both be adequately protected during any court proceedings. More broadly, there\u2019s an ongoing piece of work responding to the work by the Law Commission in relation to the use of national security information in courts, and Parliament should expect to see the outcomes of that work at a later date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFinally, recognising that the response to COVID-19 is challenging and changing, this bill introduces temporary regulation-making powers that can be used to address transitional issues that might arise. These powers include, for example, the ability to allow modifications or exemptions from the consent requirements while the emergency notification power is in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the bill supports New Zealand\u2019s interests at a critical time by increasing oversight of foreign investment while also cutting unnecessary red tape. New Zealand continues to be open for business. Productive foreign investment has been and will continue to be welcome, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dca60d6bd99e40248fb66721f378a163\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dca60d6bd99e40248fb66721f378a163\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to speak on this bill, the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill, which we\u2019ve just received. There are elements of this bill that we, clearly, support and understand. The introduction of a national interest test is something that the Australians have introduced, particularly in relation to strategically important businesses that have the potential to have military or dual-use technology. So we understand the need for urgency around that in the context of this incredible economic situation that we\u2019re facing at the moment, where over a very short period of time many businesses have been thrown into absolute confusion, with a collapse in revenue and, in many cases, a collapse in value. So we understand the impetus behind this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe do have concerns about it as well\u2014significant concerns\u2014particularly in the absence of any threshold whatsoever. I struggle to understand how the tranquillity of the Realm and the interests of New Zealanders would be badly affected if a company worth $1 million or less was sold to anybody in particular, and so the absence of any threshold means that what we\u2019re seeing, potentially, is sand being thrown in the gears of the flow of investment into this country. Of course, what we\u2019ve seen in this Budget, only read sort of a couple of moments ago, is that the country has fallen into a massive economic hole, where we\u2019ve got 150,000 jobs potentially being lost and $140 billion of extra debt, or about $80,000 per household, falling on New Zealanders. So the most critical thing that we need as a country over the next year is to grow, and a growth plan, and we have some criticisms about the absence of a clear growth plan in the Government, which we\u2019ll talk about at other times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe most fundamental driver of growth and new jobs, if not new opportunities, is private sector investment. If we are to take the view that we will rely solely on domestic investment, then we\u2019ll grow very slowly, because there is a limited pool of savings, and throughout the history of this country, if we wanted to grow faster we\u2019ve relied on foreign investment as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThere is a kind of a mood that seems to be sweeping across this Government that all foreigners are to be treated with great suspicion, and we don\u2019t necessarily go along with that. We do recognise the need for foreign investment. So the issue with this is that every single investment over these thresholds, whether it\u2019s $50,000 or $5 billion, will go through this process. The Minister assures us that it will be swift: 10 working days\u2014well, you know, I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know how confidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212d144e8e8ed4abd862c5910e69f770d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: The triage\u2014the triage is 10 days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4cfeab1cf34ad6b895a48b7494f88f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the triage, and if there is a flag flown, then it\u2019s up to 30 working days, and that\u2019s quite a long time if you\u2019re trying to decide whether to make an investment. If you\u2019re in a big bad world out there wondering what you\u2019re doing, you\u2019ve got the whole world to potentially invest in and you look at New Zealand and you see these hassles, it may put off some investment that would make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, anyway, I\u2019m relieved that that the bill is going off to a brief discussion with the select committee. On that basis, we\u2019re prepared to send it off to the select committee and have some consideration of it, noting our reservations about the absence of a threshold and the potential that it would have to make. At a critical time when we need investment, it could put off some of the investment that we would value and that would actually make a difference in terms of keeping some businesses afloat, because there will be many businesses across this country right now that are in desperate straits that employ New Zealanders, and it may well be that capital and resources coming from offshore might save those businesses and keep them going. If we turn off that tap and if we make it too difficult for that capital to arrive, that could compound the problem that we have with jobs in this country and make the situation worse. That\u2019s not something that I think anybody in this House would want to do, and I\u2019m sure the Government doesn\u2019t want to do that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we recognise the problem that they\u2019re trying to solve around the national interest where it relates to security, and we recognise the issue, to a degree, in terms of compressed values through the crisis and the dangers associated with that, but we are very worried about the impact that this would have on jobs and the ability for the country to grow. So I think that covers the issue in the sense that we\u2019ll send it off to select committee and have a look at it. We are voicing some reservations, and we hope the Government would be willing to consider some of it\u2014particularly the thresholds\u2014and some of the issues that we\u2019ll be discussing over the next few days. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb35bb9e52047adb0271d3fc091215c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb35bb9e52047adb0271d3fc091215c\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to take up a few of the points that have been raised by Paul Goldsmith, the previous speaker, because even though the previous speaker has expressed some reservations about the bill, he does zero in on what are the critical issues: how do we ensure that we protect the viable, the good, the solid businesses in this country, and how do we ensure that we continue investment in this country but at the same time, how do we make sure that the assets in this country are not sold at fire sale prices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMr Goldsmith said that we need private sector investment in this country, and he is quite right, but what we do not want is rapine and pillage. We need to get the balance right, and that is what this bill is all about: trying to get the balance right between continuing foreign investment in New Zealand\u2014much-needed and welcome foreign investment\u2014but, at the same time, not enabling all the assets that we have built up in this country through many years of hard work to be sold at a time of great distress. We do not want sales of distressed assets if they are unnecessary at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the balance we are trying to strike with this bill, and the balance goes a little bit further than that. It\u2019s a balance between welcoming foreign investment and shutting it down, and we see this in the bill as drafted that rather than this being the permanent settings that we will have in place for foreign investment in this country, the intention is that this bill has a sunset clause and that the powers in it be subject to regular review. It is in many senses an urgent measures bill but it\u2019s also a temporary bill. It is temporary because we would not want to have settings that discourage foreign investment in place permanently, but we do need them at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo we need to examine whether we\u2019ve got the balance right on the sunset clause, on how often it should be reviewed. We need to examine whether we\u2019ve got the balance right on the threshold. Should it be zero? Perhaps. We need to have a think about whether a process of triage really will work effectively. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe triage idea is quite straightforward as well. It turns out that often it is very easy to make a judgment at one end of the scale that something is completely acceptable and it\u2019s easy to make a judgment at the other end of a scale that something is completely unacceptable, but it\u2019s the area in the middle that is difficult. The process of triage that the Minister referred to that the Overseas Investment Office will be required to follow to ensure that there are quick answers takes advantage of the fact that the judgments at either end of the scale are actually quite easy to make. It is those judgments in the middle where we will need to review foreign direct investment in this country, and, at this time in particular, we need to ensure that we are protecting the major assets of the New Zealand economy, whether they are held in private hands or public hands. Assets that have been built up by New Zealand businesses are New Zealand assets, and we need to ensure that they are protected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo this bill will not stop overseas investment. All it will do at this time is place an extra hurdle\u2014and, at this time, a much-needed hurdle\u2014in terms of investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking forward to the process in the select committee, where I\u2019m sure that people will grapple with it. It will be an intense process and a very short one, but one that I think will befit this bill. We do need to get something in place quickly, so we will move it through the Finance and Expenditure Committee with due consideration, and I\u2019m looking forward to engaging with the members of that committee in examining this bill and making sure that we get this balance right, as we need to at this time. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022115cc6d871ae497cbe7649c0c7dff12e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022115cc6d871ae497cbe7649c0c7dff12e\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s fascinating, after listening to the Budget speeches from the Government and supporting parties, that the very first bill that we see under urgency in support of the Budget is one to stop a flow of capital into New Zealand. We heard the other day the Rt Hon Winston Peters talking about that ever since 1882 and refrigerated shipping, New Zealand\u2019s been a trading nation. We\u2019ve also been a nation that has been built off the back of foreign investment on our shores. That is an undeniable fact, and here we have today a Government that is making it harder for foreign investment to come into New Zealand because somehow it\u2019s being portrayed as a big bogey that takes things away from people. Well, it has contributed an enormous amount to what New Zealand is today to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the speech we just heard from Deborah Russell was interesting. It was almost a continuation of the theme that we heard at the COVID select committee a couple of weeks ago, which was that if businesses are undercapitalised, they just fail\u2014tough luck. The comment here that if a distressed business was somehow sold at a fire sale price, that\u2019s a terrible thing to have happen\u2014it misses the point that if that business maybe wasn\u2019t sold, it might fail, and if it fails, who loses? New Zealand\u2019s local investors lose. The people who have their jobs there lose. The value of that business inside the chain of activity in the economy is lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo there you go. It would seem that we have a Government that wants on the one hand to say they\u2019re friendly to business, but on the other it wants to bring in as many rules as possible to prevent individuals making their own choices inside the economy. This bill puts it all back on one Minister. It\u2019s a bit like that section 11 stuff yesterday\u2014it all goes back to one Minister. It is a theme coming through strongly that under the cover of doing things for the protection of New Zealanders from the evils of COVID-19 and all its unintended consequences, then we\u2019d better have total Government control on all aspects of New Zealanders\u2019 lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t like this bill, and I am looking particularly at the bill that talks about the national security interests. We were told about this bill earlier today, and the SIS and the GCSB have said, \u201CWell, we need to give you a briefing on it.\u201D But guess what? Not till tomorrow morning\u2014not till tomorrow morning. So the aspects of that can\u2019t be considered by us when we\u2019re debating this bill today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite an unreasonable position to be put in. Earlier in the day, we got the notification of what the urgency motion would contain. I thought, \u201CThat\u2019s great. The Government\u2019s being right up front with us for a moment, and a little bit transparent.\u201D But then, what did we get? A completely different list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ERight now, we were told we\u2019d be debating a bill that was going to, effectively, make one Minister in charge of all the infrastructure spending\u2014all the Resource Management Act consent stuff that the Government\u2019s talked a lot about, that Winston Peters today congratulated the Minister on. But where is it? Not here\u2014not here. Something that might actually, practically, do something to get consents on projects, to move them forward\u2014can\u2019t see it, not here. And we know why\u2014we know why\u2014because the Government in its entirety, across its coalition, doesn\u2019t have the numbers. So what do we do? We come up instead and put up a bill, followed by another bill that\u2019s entirely determined to, for a period of time, they\u2019re saying\u2014just a short period of time\u2014close down some of the opportunities for foreign capital to assist businesses through a very difficult time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not hard for anyone to work out that in a time like this, for many, many companies around the world and many individuals around the world, the concept of capital protection will be very much to the fore in their minds. That\u2019s where they\u2019ll say, \u201CWell, where do I invest? Where is a place that is safe to invest?\u201D, and the Prime Minister gave the answer to that today, in her speech in the House. She said that New Zealand will benefit from being a country that dealt so decisively to the COVID-19 threat and that New Zealand\u2019s trade will be enhanced by the COVID-19 threat response. Well, so will New Zealand\u2019s reputation for being a safe place to invest capital, and\u2014I\u2019ve circled back to where I started\u2014the capital that has built this country over decades, since 1882 and before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re very disappointed that the Government is bringing in these measures. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s too much need to say an awful lot more. We want to see it go to a select committee so that some of the foible of it can be exposed as it is discussed by those who submit to that committee. It\u2019s only a very short time\u2014incredibly short time\u2014but, as we\u2019ve learnt, it\u2019s an unusual thing for any bill under this circumstance to go to a select committee. So what I would say is that we will support it to that select committee, but with very severe reservations and deep concern that at the one time when New Zealand might have been wanting to make it a little easier for some companies to bring in\u2014some companies. Remember, when we say \u201Ccompanies\u201D, for some employers\u2014some places of New Zealanders\u2019 work\u2014to be able to get the capital to maintain those jobs and to maintain the trade that goes from the productive output of those jobs could\u2019ve been made a little bit easier. This does not do what the bill claims in its purpose to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa7857c6823d466b9d06671eadd98153\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa7857c6823d466b9d06671eadd98153\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. So I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill. The contribution by the member who just resumed his seat, the Hon Gerry Brownlee, was an interesting one. He put forward a proposition that suggests that never before has there been urgency after a Budget, never before has there been bills placed on the Table for the Opposition to see just after the Budget speech has been made, and never before has the Opposition actually had to get up and go and do work really, really quickly for the benefit of this House. Having sat in those seats, it is with some irony that you listen to that particular member, knowing how often it was used and how often we would see a paper with something like five minutes beforehand. But, you know, I understand what it\u2019s like in Opposition; and so you build an argument and you rewrite history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the bill. The bill contains measures which the coalition Government considers need to be put in place urgently to mitigate the economic effects of COVID-19. It should come as no surprise that the Opposition\u2014well, at least one of the Opposition\u2014speakers have already argued that we should open the borders to whoever wants to come in and buy us. It will be no surprise to anybody listening that New Zealand First, who has always stood for investment and who has always understood and acknowledged that some of that investment will come from offshore, refuses to accept that everything we have and everything we are should be up for sale to somebody else, and particularly at this moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo the bill\u2019s purpose is to ensure that the risks posed by foreign investment can be managed effectively, while reducing the regulatory burden of the screening process to support the role of productive\u2014and there is an interesting word. There is the key word. New Zealand First and the Rt Hon Winston Peters have articulated it before\u2014that any such investment from offshore must enhance New Zealanders\u2019 futures, and not just the profit margins from those offshore and line their pockets. It must be productive foreign investment in our recovery. In particular, we need to minimise the possibility that cornerstone businesses in our productive economy are sold in a way contrary to our national, long-term interests while the pandemic is causing the value of many businesses to fall. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EMr Brownlee said that this was putting in roadblocks. Inside this piece of legislation, and of equal importance, is the need to attract productive foreign investment to support our recovery. As a result, this bill brings forward some measures to cut red tape. I would have thought the Opposition\u2014I think they rolled out a series of speeches about cutting red tape\u2014would have celebrated this particular part of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ECutting red tape means encouraging investment by reducing the number of low-risk transactions unnecessarily caught by the Act, including the screening of purchases by majority New Zealand - owned and controlled entities, investments in land that has little economic, cultural, or environmental value because it sits next to a public park or sports field, and a range of small transactions that do not grant meaningful control over or access to sensitive New Zealand assets. Cutting red tape also means clarifying and simplifying the consent process for the transactions that will continue to be screened with longer-term changes, including focusing the requirements for assessing an investor\u2019s character on the factors that matter the most, such as serious proven offences, and requiring all applications to be processed to a deadline, giving investors the certainty and confidence they need to come here to invest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First understands that we require investment on our way out, but we will not sell our souls to get there. We support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022eed2758c636d4a0fb2eb09a80c8cbd41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eed2758c636d4a0fb2eb09a80c8cbd41\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, I just wondered if that member who\u2019s resumed her seat has even read the bill that she\u2019s supposedly spoken to. It sounded more like a campaign speech from New Zealand First from 2002, when they went all over the country telling everybody that the Government\u2014and that was the Government that they were part of\u2014was allowing land to be sold to foreigners. I have no idea where those foreigners were taking that land, but, apparently, they were. Of course, the issue then, in those days, was not the usual bogeymen for the New Zealand First Party of the Chinese investor, but, in that case, it was the American investors, because they were the bad people in those days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s very important for the Parliament to consider one of the other comments made by the member who\u2019s resumed her seat, and that is that she said that there\u2019s a lot of people who are going to, basically, go broke in this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223d0db478bde4ec1929df4d5cd92b242\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t. Don\u2019t mislead the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cc4c8d7d5304c328fbf56471ba26878\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014there are a lot of businesses that are going to find it very hard, and there\u2019s not much capital floating around. I think that\u2019s a very good paraphrase and a very fair thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849983554f7845eb999ede6097140f96\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say any of those things, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823970ffe3ab4cd7987ffe6d338e3a58\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she\u2019s now denying she\u2019s said that, so, obviously, she thinks there\u2019s lots of capital floating around and there\u2019s lots of people who aren\u2019t going to go broke. Well, I\u2019ve got some news for the member who\u2019s resumed her seat, and that is that that\u2019s actually pretty much the whole world at the moment. So there is not a lot of cash floating around the world or looking for a home to be in, and that\u2019s one of the problems that we\u2019ve got in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo this is legislation very much modelled on the legislation from the Liberal-National Government in Australia, which, of course, went to the extent of forming a grand coalition to deal with the COVID-19 situation, unlike the current Government in New Zealand. I think one of the things that they\u2019ve said there was that they were worried about fire sales, as well, of Australian assets which are really productive assets, and people can understand that. I can understand that people feel very frightened that this is going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOne of the problems that we have is that we have a lot of small and medium sized businesses in New Zealand, and we have some larger businesses too, that will actually end up closing if they can\u2019t get investment. It\u2019s all very well to rail against the foreign-owned banks\u2014as the member who\u2019s resumed her seat often does, through her party\u2014but, actually, it was the foreign-owned banks that helped get us through the global financial crisis, as well as a very good National-led Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut I think it\u2019s really important to understand that people do have concerns that there may be situations where there can be a New Zealand investor in interests and businesses, but you just need to be very careful about who is this New Zealand investor. Is it going to be some form of State control and ownership of everything that\u2019s productive? Who is going to take up the slack that\u2019s going to be left? So what\u2019s going to be the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a6db97f24ed47af84931383b1ed01b9\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not going to have the dancing Cossacks, surely? It\u2019s not the dancing Cossacks, again\u2014please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d94e1a0de4994c5591682031c016addc\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Andrew Little says it\u2019s not going to be the dancing Cossacks. Well, I\u2019m pleased that it\u2019s not going to be the dancing Cossacks, because, I must say, it might be time to bring them out if it is. But it is important to consider that this is a very genuine concern. We certainly would never, on this side, talk about the dancing Cossacks, but if the member really wants to, I am happy to do that all day long\u2014if he really wants to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut it is important to understand that if someone is to have a New Zealand business and they need capital, what are they supposed to do? The Government says you can borrow it. Well, what if there\u2019s not enough asset value there to borrow against, or if there is not enough income to pay the bills? These are the issues. So does that then mean that the business would have to actually close, and the answer would be yes, because, of course, they would be trading insolvently, in many cases. So there are issues here that we need to be very careful about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe have, in the National Party, not seen this bill until really, effectively, now, and we have not been able to go through it as a caucus yet to consider the ramifications of it all. So we have decided, because we are aware of the concerns that will be out in the community about a fire sale of some of the big New Zealand assets where the Government\u2019s interventions may, in fact, have harmed those assets, that we do need to consider whether or not something of this bill can actually be saved in select committee. We are assured by the fact that it is going to a select committee, which is better than no select committee, unlike some legislation these days, just passed recently\u2014in fact, yesterday\u2014and what I would like to say is that in the select committee, we\u2019re going to be asking some very hard questions around the fact that there seems to be no limit, no threshold, where there is this intervention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s something, I think, of great concern to people. If it\u2019s a big, billion-dollar thing, people might then consider it. But also, what if it\u2019s an asset that\u2019s of a million dollars or half a million dollars, which actually, to be frank, is about the price of a house? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003ESo we do need to be very careful. We will look at this very genuinely in the select committee and we will look to see if we can find some way in which to support it further. But we give no guarantees whatsoever other than to treat it in a very serious, sober, and careful way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00226ffe84b41fd64e90b8023c7092c63905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ffe84b41fd64e90b8023c7092c63905\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just had the joy of googling the dancing Cossacks, and so I have now, for my benefit, just had a very interesting political history lesson. So I thank the colleagues on the other side of the House, and I look forward to watching that full YouTube clip in due course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EThis House at the moment\u2014we are all living through a particular period of time that calls for extraordinary measures, and this is indeed a bill that is very necessary right now for our economic security. It\u2019s not lost on all of us the significance of what kind of economic stimulus will be required over the next, not just short period of time, but quite some time. Globally, we can see, internationally, markets are dropping all over the place, so this here is a very necessary measure to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s economy is protected. It is specifically to aid in our recovery. Stepping back, something that I think both sides of the House can agree on is that for a very long time, New Zealand has needed a national interest test. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003ENow, I note that my friend the member from Ilam made some comments about not being able to see anything, and this, that, and the other thing. Well, some of the measures in this bill are measures that I understand they were offered a briefing on just prior to COVID intervening and stealing the thunder. So I do know that there have been attempts, at least from this side of the House, to enable our friends from across the aisle to have a detailed perspective. So I wanted to put that on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003EWe are living through extraordinary times. It calls for extraordinary measures, and this bill here, the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill, is to assist us to do just that. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022b811dc24347f4e7299ed394e84381806\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b811dc24347f4e7299ed394e84381806\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019d like to say it gives me pleasure to speak in this debate, but it\u2019s hard to do so when one considers the ramifications of what this Government is trying to push through, again, one assumes, in a very short-fashioned way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a country that relies upon foreign direct investment. Without it, our economy cannot grow. There are few parts of New Zealand that haven\u2019t benefited or don\u2019t benefit from the investments that come from overseas. It is right that we have rules around how this money comes into the country, the conditions with which it can be invested, and rights and obligations on all sides, and every Government, for periods of time, have grappled with how to get this balance right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EHowever, for this Government now, under the guise of a Budget with the considerable economic harm that\u2019s being done to the country through COVID-19, to bring this bill forward and say that they believe it\u2019s in the best interests of the country, having delivered it to us only just now\u2014and again we find a chance where they rush things through, and haven\u2019t we seen over the last two weeks how wrong they can get things when they rush things through? The wrong tax bill was passed into law in two hours, but the Prime Minister couldn\u2019t meet her promise to New Zealanders of almost a month ago and bring forward a bill to reduce her and colleagues\u2019 salaries by 20 percent in, say, one hour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe now have this bill that may have considerable effect upon the view of people overseas who are responsible, legitimate investors that have an interest in New Zealand to come here and to invest to do so. The reason I say that is when we get investment from overseas, if it\u2019s done in the right way, it creates jobs, and what we\u2019ve heard is that the country needs jobs at this time more than anything else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Government needs to be focusing on saving jobs sustainably and focusing on creating sustainable jobs. I think that what we will see with the announcement of the extension of the wage subsidy for eight weeks for some companies is an ongoing masking of what\u2019s really happening in the economy and the degree to which unemployment is going to increase. The reason for that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb81fb2f2b064b8790494acc7f395d99\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member stop that subsidy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbc01c9f9b149208c9a1a7ded39addb\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s one thing to sit there and chirp a little bit\u2014it\u2019s one thing to chirp a little bit when you\u2019ve just spoken\u2014but the great thing about this Parliament is it is an opportunity to have a debate. You\u2019ve had your chance, and how about someone else has a chance now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo the point here is that that subsidy has been welcomed by the National Party, and it has helped New Zealanders in their time of need. What it will now do is allow a number of companies to keep those New Zealanders on their books as they try to see what will happen to them in the coming period of time. It\u2019s a good thing for those individuals. However, that is not enough, unfortunately, to keep New Zealanders in work, and what it is likely to do is mask the level of unemployment that is coming. It puts it off for a period of time for those people that get to keep their jobs during that period of time. That\u2019s an important thing, but what I\u2019m actually talking about is every time we get a responsible foreign direct investment in New Zealand, jobs are created, and they\u2019re not created by the Government and they\u2019re not created by the taxpayer. The Government and the taxpayer then has taxes to spend on other things that can be better used in the economy\u2014health and in education\u2014and in this case, what we\u2019re seeing is legislation before the House that is not likely to create more jobs. It\u2019s likely to restrict the private sector creating jobs at a time when the Government are also using taxes to support jobs directly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the reason that we need to take some time to really understand this and have a very good, close look at it, because, again, it\u2019s another piece of legislation that is just dumped upon us. But we\u2019ve had every speaker in this debate in the Parliament earlier stand up and talk about what we need to do for New Zealand to get it back on its feet. Well, actually, backward-looking legislation\u2014restrictive legislation when it comes to making things more difficult for business in New Zealand\u2014is not about moving forward; it\u2019s actually about going backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard that there is funding available in the Budget for exports. The thing about exports is it is also about attracting investment to the country. So on the one hand the Government is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to help New Zealand companies do better overseas and to be able to find ways to diversify and sell more in markets overseas, and, in fact, it\u2019s no different than every other Budget we\u2019ve seen from any other Government. We did it when we were in Government. We made sure that there was support for an export economy because we are an export nation. But at the same time, we then have this legislation brought forward which creates more restriction, not less. It\u2019s not about actually opening the economy up in a way, responsibly, that creates jobs and gets the economy growing; it\u2019s about making it more difficult, more cumbersome, and more costly to be involved in the New Zealand economy and to invest in the New Zealand economy, and I just wonder why. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI just can\u2019t understand or comprehend why the Government would do that at this time, when every single business person in New Zealand and every single employee in New Zealand wants to go back to work, wants to look for more markets, and wants to find more investment, but doesn\u2019t want more debt and doesn\u2019t want more borrowing. They want more customers. They want to partner and they want to have people invest in the productive parts of New Zealand, and this bill makes that more difficult. In particular, it\u2019s because it creates rules that the Government get to use themselves that we will find as this debate goes forward will make no sense at all, and they\u2019re not likely to make a lot of difference to the investment regime in as far as, actually, what is allowed and is not allowed, I suppose, but it will create great complication and great cost for those in New Zealand who find investment and for those overseas who want to responsibly invest in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI think what the last speaker in this debate needs to do, if she takes another call, is to explain very carefully why they don\u2019t like foreign direct investment, because that\u2019s very much the message that is sent. Is it just about the foreigners? If we just called it direct investment, would they be in favour of it? If they just called it direct investment, would they be in favour of it, because what we\u2019ve heard time and time again is the reasons why they don\u2019t like people investing in our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the big problem that we have from this Government: the signals that they send around the world about whether or not New Zealand is open to the right type of investment that will grow the economy, that will produce things that we might not otherwise, and that, at the same time, will create jobs for New Zealanders, and the signal that\u2019s being sent by this legislation, and that last speech and almost every other speech that we\u2019ve heard from the Government, is \u201CNo, we don\u2019t want to be a welcoming economy. We don\u2019t want people to feel that they can come here and investment.\u201D, and, at the same time, that means they don\u2019t want the private sector, in partnership with others, to create the jobs. I think they believe it is the Government\u2019s job, and sole job, to control that and to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe will have more opportunities to talk about this in the coming period of time, but I ask the Government to take their time and to reflect, and not to rush because they think that when a Government passes legislation quickly, they are seen to be a hard-working or responsive Government. That\u2019s certainly not what we\u2019ve seen over the past weeks, when they introduced the wrong legislation to the House and passed it in short order in two hours, and then went out and announced it as if it was actually meant to have happened and it wasn\u2019t a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the reason that this House should take the time that sits in the Standing Orders to get things right. When there is a need for urgency, we should do things urgently. Often, when things need to be done urgently, two sides of the House join together to do that, but we shouldn\u2019t be using urgency for the sake of rushing things through just so we can be seen to be doing something, and this legislation should take its time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eb07c30ac914f7e88f5b7f3347d8df9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: A $140 billion Budget, and this is it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2bb125ea6984e6eb97711f04d255729\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Well, there you go: a $140 billion Budget, and the first thing they do is say that we don\u2019t want to create jobs through foreign direct investment. If you get that wrong, it\u2019ll have to be a $141 billion - debt Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282f248b3c3cc499bb78062fd4cad169f\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Where are they borrowing the money from? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb195a91084d4712bc602dbf60fbdc35\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because, actually, Mr Brownlee, it has to come from somewhere else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s a good point, and a final point: when it comes to foreign direct investment, the $140 billion\u2014that\u2019s $80,000 per household in New Zealand. That\u2019s one heck of a second mortgage that this Government has to borrow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099fb730e2aa4aa59bfb94b8d652729c\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: Run out of material. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e4581ffffa40b0bc5404f0c4cb3658\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the Hon Tracey Martin, where will that come from? Where will that come from? Will it come from overseas? Will it come from foreigners? Will it come from people overseas who, through their banks, decide that they will invest in the Government of New Zealand, or will it come from, actually, hard-working New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe one thing I do know of that $80,000 per household additional debt is it will be paid back through higher tax rates on the part of hard-working New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00226347d93e71cd40ffb598b67dcfb67993\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226347d93e71cd40ffb598b67dcfb67993\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand this is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002241a1b4d6cbc34c79be7b00e18185928d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241a1b4d6cbc34c79be7b00e18185928d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Look, despite the flailing around there, it\u2019s good to know that the National Party is going to support this excellent piece of legislation through to a select committee, because we actually do agree on that thing. If the member had listened, he would have known that on this side of the House, we are absolutely in favour of sustainable, long-term, high-quality foreign investment. But in these extraordinary times, values are volatile and in some cases they are tumbling, and the existing threshold of $100 million just isn\u2019t right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, we have seen businesses which have some real, fundamental strengths and strategic importance, and the risk is that their values will plummet. The hyenas are circling around the fire, and on this side of the House we say no, we will not allow them to tear, limb from limb, the jewels of New Zealand industry and business. We will wait and we will support those businesses, and if people want to come to this country with good money to invest in the long term to support New Zealand, we welcome it. But we will not be the victims of international scavengers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis, however, is an extraordinary measure. It\u2019s not here for ever. That measure in particular is here for the time being\u2014while those market conditions are extraordinary. So once those market conditions settle down and once the economic conditions return to normality, those provisions will be set to one side and will not be being used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why this is a good bill. I look forward to sitting on the select committee, having a robust discussion with my friends from the National Party, and seeing this through to becoming yet another plank in our response to the COVID-19 crisis. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00220ff626f280c341329c10ff0226832402\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ff626f280c341329c10ff0226832402\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be talking on this new bill, the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill. If I recall and understand what the Minister said when he introduced the bill, this bill is basically about stopping fire sales of businesses in New Zealand and, with that, the loss of intellectual property and jobs overseas. I think that at a high level, there is merit in that argument, for sure. However, what I find slightly disconcerting is he then went on and used the term \u201Ctriage\u201D, and, to me, that has a rather negative connotation about the way you look at approval of foreign investment. It implies a negative connotation, and I think that is wrong. We are talking about foreign investment in New Zealand, and, as many of the speakers have noted previously, it has been very beneficial for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the big issue here\u2014and this is what the crux of this bill will be about\u2014is there are good forms of foreign investment and there are poor forms of foreign investment. In the main, there are many good types of foreign investment, and the classic I want to talk about is, for instance, if a company is in trouble\u2014and we\u2019ve seen the Auckland Airport do a significant rights issue recently. If that company wants to get fresh equity so it can recapitalise and grow its business or expand its business, that is fine, and that type of foreign investment should be allowed. What worries me in this bill is that all the good stuff and the bad stuff is going to be put together into one little box and pushed through the Overseas Investment Office (OIO) under strict requirements to do it within 10 days, and also the whole processing at 25, 50, 75, and 100 percent takeover\u2014each of those thresholds just double up the requirement to be able to make that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other thing is it, obviously, builds on this issue around the national interest test and the call-in powers. No one\u2019s mentioned it yet, I don\u2019t think, but the national call-in powers and the national interest refer to industries such as national military or security companies, telecommunications, electricity, ports, airports, financial institutions, and, of course, the media. Those are the types of categories that these provisions will relate to particularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think that in terms of looking at this bill at the select committee, the first thing is making sure that its focus is very, very confined, because if it starts to impede businesses who are currently in trouble, and who need capital and can\u2019t get that capital other than going locally, then that\u2019s a real issue. This bill, actually\u2014what it\u2019s done is hung out a shingle to many people from overseas to say \u201CIf you want to do it, even though you\u2019re going to be fast-tracked\u201D\u2014supposedly\u2014\u201Dunder this system, you will have to still go through quite a rigmarole.\u201D, at a time when New Zealand companies need that money quickly. So the focus will be around its purpose and scope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is around the definition of the national interest, because I think it says in the bill that the Minister can \u201Cimpose conditions on, prohibit, [and require disposal] of investments\u201D. So it\u2019s quite wide-ranging powers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third issue is the definition and scope of the call-in powers, and I think that will need a lot of work on it, because that is a heavy-handed right. The fourth thing is the capacity of the OIO. If you talk to any lawyer who has been involved in OIO processing\u2014and I did, recently\u2014they will normally say that the process for doing foreign investment in New Zealand is time-consuming, and my first question is we\u2019re now doubling up on it, requiring it at 25, 50, and 75 and 100 percent thresholds. That means the resources of the OIO will need to be resourced. I don\u2019t see anything in the Budget for that, and so how that\u2019s going to be done is another issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other issue is the approval by one Minister. This is, again, a heavy-handed approach\u2014and whether that\u2019s appropriate\u2014and, finally, the criteria when these emergency powers should be disbanded or discontinued will need to be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAll of that means that we\u2019ve got a lot of work to do in a Finance and Expenditure Committee meeting over the next week. I\u2019m just wondering who\u2019s going to turn up as submitters. I don\u2019t think we\u2019ll get any foreigners, because they\u2019ll see this bill and think they won\u2019t want to go near it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00220938dcc75eb540019d133f73cb2ee8f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220938dcc75eb540019d133f73cb2ee8f7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002283907aef66f3407f9711ae0282acf04a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283907aef66f3407f9711ae0282acf04a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to these bills. The history of New Zealand is a history of foreign investment, and, if you doubt that, let me tell a story. In the beginning, there was no foreign capital in New Zealand, and then Kupe showed up with his waka hourua and a few kunekune pigs. That was the start of importing foreign capital, and we\u2019ve never looked back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere are two reasons why that matters: first of all, capital is important for jobs. A job without capital is called a labourer. I\u2019ve been a labourer in parts of my life, and even the proudest labourers will tell you that if you don\u2019t have capital, you can\u2019t earn much money. So capital is important for raising wages. The second point is that there\u2019s a lot more capital overseas than in New Zealand. That\u2019s why our history is a history of foreign investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s a funny old thing that New Zealand is an outlier amongst democracies, because most of the xenophobia is on the left. Never forget it was our Labour Party of the Chinese-sounding names publicity stunt, and it was our left-wing Government that introduced the oil and gas ban that has investors around the world scratching their heads, saying, \u201CDo these guys want to be part of the First World and the 21st century or not?\u201D Then came the Overseas Investment Amendment Act at the beginning of this Government that further sent the message that this country wants to replace Fiji as the largest group of Pacific Islands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis bill makes worse a situation where New Zealand is among the most hostile destinations for foreign investment in the OECD, and the Opposition\u2014I say, how they don\u2019t know that? They don\u2019t know that it\u2019s almost easier to invest in Indonesia or in Saudi Arabia than it is in New Zealand, and it needn\u2019t be so. I say to the xenophobes that if you don\u2019t like foreigners, foreign investment is for you. Why? Because immigration is when foreigners come and live here; foreign investment is when they stay home and just send their money. Even the most xenophobic parties in this Parliament should think that\u2019s a good deal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo this bill comes along and, at precisely the time when New Zealand businesses are going to be desperate for investment capital so they can keep going and keep jobs going and maybe hire more people, this Government is introducing legislation, as the first Act of this Budget, that makes it even harder for foreigners to send their capital to support businesses and help jobs. The greatest irony of all is that in this Budget, this Government is borrowing $140 billion, and, if it\u2019s not the $60 billion that the Reserve Bank is just going to print, it\u2019s the other $80 billion that\u2019s going to come from offshore. So the Government is importing foreign capital, but the private sector can\u2019t. How crazy is that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat describes the problem with this Government. It is trying to manage the economy from the Beehive, and that\u2019s inadvisable for any Government, but especially foolhardy for the Government that gave the world KiwiBuild. It is now trying to rebuild the whole economy. Phil Twyford\u2019s going to be there with his high-vis vest and his hard hat, trying to rebuild more than just the cluster that he had with KiwiBuild and houses. They\u2019re going to KiwiBuild the whole economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why New Zealanders should be concerned, and that\u2019s why the ACT Party, the only party consistently standing for a free and open economy in New Zealand, is proud to stand alone in this House in opposing this myopic, inward-looking, backward build. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe38957b0dd3410bb2b53e77d0c95539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe38957b0dd3410bb2b53e77d0c95539\u0022\u003EJAMIE STRANGE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m delighted to take a call on this bill. If there was ever a bill that highlighted the difference between the Opposition and the Government, it\u2019s this bill, because we\u2019ve heard speeches from the Opposition who want to sell out New Zealand\u2014who want to sell New Zealand - owned firms overseas. What we\u2019re saying is we need to keep New Zealand businesses for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got a Government here who are taking a long-term view, because the reality is when the businesses are sold, they\u2019re sold. When they\u2019re gone, they\u2019re gone. Somebody once said, \u201CWe don\u2019t want to become tenants in our own land.\u201D I wonder who said that, and I think the Opposition members should think about that\u2014we don\u2019t want to become tenants in our land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s appropriate that this bill comes first after the Budget, because the crux of this bill is about protecting New Zealand interests. There\u2019s been a growing sense of pride in New Zealand in terms of our response to COVID-19 and within that growing sense of pride there is a sense that we need to keep New Zealand for New Zealanders, and that\u2019s what this bill does, in a balanced, practical way. I\u2019ll be interested to see how the Opposition vote after a few more speeches, because I expect they will vote for this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another point I haven\u2019t heard raised in this debate, which is that Australia, Canada, and a number of European countries have recently strengthened their foreign investment regimes. Are the Opposition recommending we get out of step with those countries, because as a Government, we believe it\u2019s important to be in step with some of our good friends, the likes of Australia, Canada, and some of those European countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c2e823af-22b7-4411-8b12-14d7b43680ea\u0022\u003ESo the point is that here we have a Government taking a long-term view, keeping these businesses in New Zealand for the long-term benefit of New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a96ed33eded24a3a9f060dfa2043a784\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a96ed33eded24a3a9f060dfa2043a784\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to follow that contribution from Jamie Strange, realising that xenophobia is alive and well on the other side of the House. Let me be quite clear to that member as to how National will vote: National will vote to support it to the select committee, but gives no guarantee that we\u2019ll support it after the select committee process. We\u2019ve decided on that course of action because this is a complicated piece of legislation delivered at a time of crisis in New Zealand, and we accept that. But I think comments from Jamie Strange like \u201CWe don\u2019t want to sell out New Zealand to strangers.\u201D send all the wrong signals at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe first piece of legislation that we\u2019re rushing into this Parliament after the most serious Budget that\u2019s been presented in my lifetime, potentially, sends all the wrong signals to the investment industry right throughout New Zealand and internationally. It sends the signal that New Zealand is closing its doors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow, I listened very carefully to the Hon David Parker as he introduced this legislation, and he talked about the need for it to protect those strategic industries that may be vulnerable because of the economic crisis of COVID-19\u2014industries associated with the military, with the ports, with airports, perhaps electricity, perhaps even the media\u2014and there is some justification for needing to make sure that those industries, who may become fragile and vulnerable, are recognised as strategic industries and are, therefore, subject to a strong regime and tests around foreign direct investment. But what Mr Strange didn\u2019t realise with his contribution is that New Zealand already has a very, very strong regime around overseas investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe Hon David Parker talked about a threshold existing in the current regime of $100 million. Well, if the ports of New Zealand and the airports of New Zealand are now going to collapse to a value below that, and I certainly hope that\u2019s not the case\u2014but if it is, think seriously about adjusting that threshold. But the way I read the legislation, this means all foreign investment comes under the scrutiny of this new bill. I want the member opposite to consider Queenstown as it is today\u2014desperate for jobs. I will guarantee before too much longer there will be a motel unit there, perhaps, of 20 or 30 units that will go bust and, potentially, it could have been sold to an overseas investor and saved a lot of jobs. But that particular threshold now means that that distressed business\u2014a motel of 30 units, potentially\u2014is considered strategic under this legislation and goes through yet another hurdle, if indeed this doesn\u2019t chase off the potential foreign investor buying that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhat this country needs now more than at any time is business confidence, because confidence equals jobs. The Prime Minister delivered her Budget speech and talked about the Budget being a Budget for jobs. Well, think about that distressed motel owner currently in Queenstown, potentially, with a staff of a dozen people, who is about to go bust and wanting to find a way of getting some fresh capital into that business to keep those jobs there. This legislation threatens that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI listened, particularly, with fear to the Budget speech from the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and he spoke with his normal xenophobic nature against foreign investment, spoke against the reforms of the 1980s\u2014which I think were the saviour for the New Zealand economy\u2014and spoke against foreign investment. He was the man who, three years ago, campaigned against any foreign investment into New Zealand\u2019s second-largest meat-processing company, Silver Fern Farms\u2014a company which was so vulnerable, it potentially could have tipped over\u2014and, finally, there was some investment. Yes, it was foreign investment. It happened to be Chinese foreign investment, which will really worry the xenophobes on the other side of the House, but that company recently returned a $70 million profit and will pay tax to the Government. That\u2019s what foreign investment can do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s be grateful that the Government will send it to a select committee for a short period of time to give us a chance to really examine the detail of this. But I can\u2019t help thinking there were far easier ways to construct legislation that wouldn\u2019t look as if New Zealand was closed for business and that wouldn\u2019t turn people who have investment money, who are interested in New Zealand, off from considering New Zealand and send them to other opportunities that exist in countries like Fiji or Australia, because jobs are important. That\u2019s what we need at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo I say to the Minister that the select committee will examine the legislation. I warn the Minister that there is no guarantee that as the legislation comes back from the select committee, National will continue to support this legislation. I personally think it\u2019s complete overkill and it sends all the wrong signals to our business community at a time when they\u2019re asking for confidence in the Government. They\u2019re asking for a Government that knows how business works, because this legislation suggests to me that many on that side of the House have not a clue what actually makes a business survive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002263d2af248b5c427ea318c0c2d285ba7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263d2af248b5c427ea318c0c2d285ba7a\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. The Greens are pleased to support the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill. Like all countries, New Zealand relies on overseas-based investment to contribute to economic growth. It can improve productivity, it can enhance export opportunities and improve employment, and it also brings new ideas, innovation, and relationships that connect us with the world. We want to be seen as an attractive place to do business where we get overseas investment which promotes a sustainable, productive, and inclusive economy, and we welcome that sort of investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s also a privilege for overseas persons to own or control New Zealand assets. That is why one of the first things this Government did was to strengthen the ministerial directive to the Overseas Investment Office to close the loopholes that the National Government had opened so wide that it saw large areas of rural land being sold offshore. It was why one of the second things this Government did was the \u201Cone home to live\u201D test, to reduce and avoid overseas speculation in our housing markets. We want overseas investment where it generates a sustainable, productive, and inclusive economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut in a COVID-19 world, which the Opposition doesn\u2019t seem to recognise, there will be a major change. There will be businesses that become distressed, that are likely to fail, and that are significant businesses in the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283931f3d8f94461490336d2c2029a1ea\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: And now they won\u2019t have any capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fdb1201413049c38b02f305a882e821\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: And it is wrong, Mr Seymour. If Mr Seymour read the bill, he would find that there are changes that streamline the way in which applications can be considered. One of the changes is to reduce the screening when low-risk investment is wanted by New Zealand companies and they want to access that lending from overseas. So it is making the Act more streamlined and the processes more efficient. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EBut there are distressed businesses which are a cornerstone of our tourism sector. We do not want those passing into overseas hands at the moment, if it is just because they aren\u2019t able to do business at the moment. So that is why it is absolutely critical that we\u2014as Australia has done, in reducing the threshold for screening to zero, in a COVID era\u2014are doing that with this bill. It is for an emergency period only. It won\u2019t last for ever, but it is intended to ensure that critical New Zealand businesses which are finding it difficult don\u2019t end up being totally overseas-owned just because of that economic distress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the changes in this bill are part of the Government\u2019s whole business response package. They\u2019re ensuring that we\u2019ve got the right checks and balances to protect businesses that are important to our national security, our economy, and our communities. The changes that I mentioned earlier in terms of streamlining, they will enable applications to go more quickly through the process, because the Office of Overseas Investment\u2014contrary to what some National members have suggested\u2014has been working to improve its practices significantly. It has been reducing the times required for applications to be considered and decided but has also sought to ensure that we recognise the privilege of owning things like rural land in New Zealand. So these lower-risk transactions won\u2019t need to be screened and the application processes for remaining applications will be simplified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn this whole area of a national interest test, that is to recognise that on this side of the House, we have significant infrastructure in the telecommunications space, in the technology space, and if it\u2019s advising on national security issues, that it is in the national interest for applications to purchase those companies to be considered. Really? But the ability for the Ministry of Finance to consider those and see whether they\u2019re purchased by overseas interests is actually in New Zealand\u2019s national interest. So that is what this bill does. It provides the screening of any application to buy more than 25 percent of a New Zealand company by an overseas person, or to increase the investment stake by an overseas person beyond 50 percent, for this emergency COVID period. Then, when that is over, there will be this national interest test, which means applications will be screened, due diligence will be done\u2014and, as Minister Parker noted, that will be done relatively quickly\u2014and then, if needed, the Minister can intervene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAlso, to counter some of the points made by the Opposition, five years ago, the Overseas Investment Office was very poorly resourced. In Budget 2018-19, there was additional revenue provided to the office\u2014particularly to work in the enforcement space\u2014because under the previous Government, we saw very little action taken against those who broke the law. With more resources, there\u2019s been more effort here, and what we\u2019ve seen is a significant increase in the enforcement actions to ensure that the law is complied with. In 2014-15, there were three enforcement actions. In 2019-20, there were 43. This Government is about sound law, and then ensuring that law is enforced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other parts of the bill that Opposition members may be interested in is the issues around character, because, currently, if an overseas investor wants to acquire sensitive assets, the investor test must be satisfied. That means that an investor\u2019s character, capacity, and capability are assessed to ensure that they\u2019re not likely to act inappropriately or bring New Zealand into disrepute. Currently, that investor test requires a large amount of information to be reviewed. It\u2019s time-consuming, both for potential investors and applicants and for the Overseas Investment Office, and that test only looks at the character of individuals, the directors, and those who control the company. What the bill is doing is ensuring that there is a simplified investor test, and it looks at the character of corporate entities and not just individuals. That should reduce the amount of information that is required and make the whole process much more streamlined. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, in terms of the emergency measures, the simplification of some of the processes, and also the national interest test, we are ensuring that we protect the key parts of the New Zealand economy while also ensuring that the door is open for overseas investment, which assists in making a productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002200ac6011f93247b0a3a749a46cfd86b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200ac6011f93247b0a3a749a46cfd86b0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye, to the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. I\u2019ll ask the Clerk to conduct a party vote, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022920979717daa44eeab3fe5124c583236\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022920979717daa44eeab3fe5124c583236\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry\u2014my apologies. Excuse me, I know we\u2019re not meant to do this\u2014this happened yesterday, too. Look, I don\u2019t normally call the votes, and I shouldn\u2019t have this time, because, in fact, the National Party has consistently said we do want to see this go to a select committee, although we have our reservations. So I apologise, but I need to correct our vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fda5dc211b8e4830bc48ffb03f06bbc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fda5dc211b8e4830bc48ffb03f06bbc8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I totally accept your apology, Mr Brownlee. Mr Seymour called for a party vote, so I\u2019ll ask the Clerk to conduct a party vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea94ad7be3f347c0af100cfdb928d629\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 118\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000376\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00227aba2d9b7c3a4da4ac2894950f2c43f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227aba2d9b7c3a4da4ac2894950f2c43f9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 25 May 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI suggest to the House that this is necessary because we\u2019re in the midst, internationally, of a depression caused by COVID-19 that is predicted by many to be of a scale not seen since the Great Depression. The current regime for screening assets has no national interest test. It has only a freedom from corruption and ability to manage an asset test, and even then, those tests only apply to investments for most countries of $100 million or more; for investors from Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership countries, $200 million; and for Australian investors, $500 million. So they\u2019re very high thresholds and we think that with those high thresholds, in the absence of a national interest test, we need some more levers, and we think that this risk justifies progressing this through a shortened select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMany aspects of the bill will be enduring. The national interest test endures, albeit it with that higher threshold, but none the less we think that the interim measures justify a shortened select committee period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220d46fe03ef744b7385a3797dea3d2215\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d46fe03ef744b7385a3797dea3d2215\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E We don\u2019t think that that\u2019s a reasonable thing at all. This is a very important bill. Every speaker that\u2019s spoken so far this afternoon, including Government speakers, has been at pains to point out how important it is, and I think one week or, effectively, about three sitting days\u2014or would-be sitting days\u2019\u2014time for officials, firstly, to get people to submit, and, secondly, for those people to be heard, even though we can now do it by Zoom and other such ways, and then for the report to be put to the House, is pretty unreasonable. If we look at some of the contradictions in the views on this bill today, it does show that there does need to be a select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI can appreciate some of what the Hon Eugenie Sage had to say. I don\u2019t agree with most of it, because I have a different view about what the effect would be of any particular action, and I think it was very interesting and instructive that the Minister who just took his seat\u2014the Hon David Parker\u2014mentioned that we have pretty large thresholds with some countries that have been negotiated through the free-trade agreement arrangements. Now, one of the things that he immediately followed with is that we think we therefore need some more restrictions. Well, what does that do to those trade agreements, and in a time when we are desperate to maintain trade and desperate to maintain investment in business in New Zealand? Let\u2019s be clear: trade and investment is about jobs; nothing else. You cannot say \u201Cjobs, jobs, jobs\u201D if there isn\u2019t a big focus on trade and investment, and I think the need for the public to understand that the Government is somewhat confused in the way it\u2019s going about things is essential. So it is completely unreasonable that we are being restricted to just a one-week arrangement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to amend the motion by the Hon David Parker in a reasonable way so that the report-back date for the committee is amended to Monday, 15 June. Now, that gives a full recess week next week, a couple of sitting weeks, and a recess week to get it back, and I think that would enable sufficient time or enough people to be able to come along to, well, firstly, get the bill\u2014firstly, get hold of the bill\u2014and read it and work out what it means for them. Just think about what it must be like if you are one of those people in Queenstown\u2014the motelier that the Rt Hon David Carter talked about\u2014with 30-odd rooms in probably a $7.5 million, $8 million, or $10 million complex. It has no occupancy at the moment, but it is a good asset, but it has a huge debt sitting over the top of it, probably to a bank here in New Zealand, and there is the need to either bring in an investor or to sell it to someone who can afford to sit on it for a long time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI spoke earlier about the value of New Zealand accepting the Prime Minister\u2019s proposition put to the House today that we will become a desirable location, perhaps not only for people to come to do all the business they like to do like tourism and education\u2014and both might take a while\u2014but also to be a haven for capital protection. The people on the other side of the House immediately recoil at the words \u201Cprotecting capital\u201D. That would be awful\u2014a horrible thought to them. But if people find that New Zealand is a place where they can invest that relatively small amount to buy an asset and to mothball it effectively until the good times come, then that\u2019s to our advantage. Otherwise, if that place falls down, it will be a fire sale, locally, and if it\u2019s not a fire sale locally it will just sit there and it will deteriorate, and I tell you what, you don\u2019t have to look too far into the Pacific to see a whole lot of failed assets that have massively deteriorated because of some of their particular views about selling assets to foreigners. So we do need to be quite reasonable about this and I think we do need to have the time in front of us to allow people to have a good look at it, to understand what it\u2019s all about, and to offer an opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a second bill that\u2019s coming that\u2019s going to a select committee for three months\u2014the normal time is six months\u2014and that\u2019s about right. That\u2019s a good bill. We don\u2019t necessarily agree with everything in it, but there are lots of things in it that are necessary for consideration when you are looking at ensuring that you get the right sort of investment in a country. But this thing, being rushed through so very quickly, overlaying the current arrangements, seems to me incredibly short-sighted, somewhat knee-jerk, and it was almost certainly cooked up by a group of cardigan-wearing officials in the back room somewhere who decided that they knew how the economy can best be protected. Well, the reality is it\u2019s best protected by protecting the capital that New Zealanders have invested in the productive assets of the country, and if part of that means that someone who has capital from offshore is for a time able to invest and sit on it, then that is again, I say, to our advantage. These are the sorts of things that we need to hear in the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI know of one hotel chain that is a massive employer\u2014600 people\u2014and they\u2019re going to have to put 80 percent of them off. Now, wouldn\u2019t some investor that they might like to attract be a good thing if it meant that the carnage for that workforce was not so great? These are the sorts of things that we need people to come to the select committee and make the case for this bill being not quite as good as it should be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll go back to what I said before. I\u2019ve amended the motion so that the select committee reports on 15 June, giving an extra couple of weeks\u2014only a couple of extra weeks\u2014to consider it, and let\u2019s be clear: we\u2019re in level 2 now. Level 2 is not reviewed for two weeks, so the level of activity that\u2019s likely to take place during that time in tracking down someone to invest, and all that sort of thing, is unlikely to happen. So the pace that\u2019s being put on here is completely artificial, and I think it\u2019s probably designed to make the Budget look more robust than it really is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EAll the Budget was was a massive expenditure and this sort of idea that \u201CDon\u2019t worry, the Government\u2019s here to help.\u201D Well, the Government can\u2019t do that for ever. It just has to rely on the private sector coming up with the capital that\u2019s required to keep the economy going. The Government can\u2019t employ everybody, and it certainly can\u2019t tax the death out of people who of course are getting their income from the Government. This is just so circular; it doesn\u2019t really need any further explanation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThis bill, I think, is disappointing. On the one hand, we get the comment from the Prime Minister that \u201CYes, New Zealand can be a great destination for the rest of the world to look at, and capital protection will be part of that.\u201D, and then we get this commitment from the Government that \u201CWe\u2019re going to increase the wage subsidy. We\u2019re going to keep New Zealanders in work. We\u2019re going to really put all sorts of investment in all sorts of places, and not only are we going to put KiwiBuild behind us but we\u2019re going to build 8,000 houses in the next very short while.\u201D\u2014in the next two years. Everyone\u2019s going to really sit up and notice that one and take it on board. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s all these things, and the other thing is we were supposed to have a bill right now that was going to make it easier to do some of these infrastructure projects that are going to employ thousands of New Zealanders, but that\u2019s gone. Instead, the centrepiece of the Budget appears to be a bill that restricts foreign ownership\u2014restricts foreign investment\u2014and it\u2019s the investment part that\u2019s the worst of it, because you can just go through the history of New Zealand, as I said earlier, and then David Seymour stole some of my better lines in his speech and offered them to the House. It has been, since the 1800s; in fact, he took it back further. He\u2019s a much deeper historian than I am. He took it back to Kupe. He left off the k\u016Bmaras, though\u2014they were important\u2014and ever since that time, investment in New Zealand is what has grown the country. So why are we today hastening the time that a select committee can scrutinise a bill that would be very helpful, if it didn\u2019t exist\u2014very helpful\u2014for a whole lot of medium to large sized enterprises in the areas that the economy has been so devastated in: primarily, hospitality and tourism? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I hope that the House will be good enough to recognise that just a little bit of extra time\u2014just those extra two weeks\u2014might be a good thing. It might be a reasonable thing for the public and also for all of the particular operators and investors in these sectors so that they can understand what the Government\u2019s doing. I mean, we\u2019re going to help them anyway\u2014there\u2019s no question about that. They need to know that this is not a positive thing; it actually sets out to achieve exactly the opposite to its purpose. Then, I think it would be a conscious decision for the Government\u2014a much more conscious decision for the Government\u2014to say, \u201CWe\u2019re going ahead with it and we don\u2019t care. We have no interest in New Zealand\u2019s small business accessing the capital it needs from offshore.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00221f8d572c208241b7a9edea8a8abd6feb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f8d572c208241b7a9edea8a8abd6feb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next speaker, firstly, I forgot to say that the question is that the motion be agreed to, but Mr Brownlee, obviously, knew what we were debating. Can I also say that I know there\u2019s a lot of pent-up energy because we haven\u2019t been debating as much in the last couple of months as we might have, but I don\u2019t think that we need to use that energy to criticise public servants who don\u2019t have the opportunity\u2014there are 119 members in the House that we can criticise, so perhaps leave public servants out of the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u002221825533906b450daaab739cf4f759c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221825533906b450daaab739cf4f759c7\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022804337c1f86c447ebedcda6f85a87e79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022804337c1f86c447ebedcda6f85a87e79\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I just want to pick up on your comments. I thought that the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2019s comments about civil servants and cardigans were most unfortunate and really damaging to the reputation of this House, and I\u2019d just like to redeem that by putting on record that a cardigan\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0bbfd017ec444782bc6634b3d5110c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Seymour, that doesn\u2019t require you to repeat an insult. You could be better than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77fec879091450da6718270da5ca8ed\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, I was trying to redeem it by saying that it\u2019s actually a very practical garment, more comfortable than a jacket, more formal than a sweater, and should actually have a place in everyone\u2019s wardrobe, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with wearing a cardigan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c50524e16ac4846a142407a9049d702\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I reflect on your admonishment, and I do want to withdraw and apologise. I must also say that at a previous time, dealing with a different, much, much smaller crisis for New Zealand, we were very reliant on the work of State servants. I do appreciate that they do good work. My real point was that I don\u2019t think they\u2019re the sole repository of good ideas, but I do apologise to them and the House for any reflection that might come from the House on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc77b19f37b4f018c05a21fe6ca469f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: David Seymour, you do know the motion that we\u2019re referring to and debating? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be60ec4a0b604503898bbf321f4dc5ea\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, very much, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfbb67646f5461683e70ced795680cc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent. So you\u2019ll speak to it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296b6571b4908484788e0a237fd450ee3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I certainly will, and I think it\u2019s unfortunate you\u2019d insinuate that I wouldn\u2019t. It should have been clear that I was supporting you in not wanting this House to in any way denigrate civil servants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe motion, of course, as you know, Madam Speaker, and people at home know and people on both sides of this House know, in fact, is whether or not this bill, making significant changes to the rules for foreign investment in New Zealand, should go to a select committee for only 10 days or, as amended by the Hon Gerry Brownlee, for about three weeks. I\u2019m speaking in opposition to that motion, for a couple of reasons. One is that a select committee process of that length can\u2019t practically be a meaningful one\u2014so that\u2019s the first point here. The second is that failing to have a meaningful process around making this law, that affects the ability of foreigners to do business with New Zealand business people, risks imperilling New Zealand\u2019s reputation at a time when we\u2019ve had a series of legislative initiatives or, I might say, blunders that have done damage to our reputation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ELet me just start with why it would be an inadequate select committee process. Asking the House to report back in 10 days, or even three weeks, does not give adequate time for people affected to consider their submissions. They\u2019ve got to read the bill, understand it, get advice, put their submission together, and send it in. So in order to get public feedback, you need at least a couple of weeks. Then those submissions have to come to the committee and be read by the members, who have to understand them, and then they have to bring the submitters in, if they wish to make an oral submission in person. They\u2019ve got to listen to that and contemplate and cogitate, and then, with the help of the committee officials, deliberate and report and suggest amendments to the bill\u2014none of that can happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo the first point I make is that if we shorten the select committee process, either to 10 days or to Mr Brownlee\u2019s 25-odd days, we are going to have an improper select committee process. It will not be good lawmaking, and that matters to this House. There\u2019s nothing to say New Zealanders have to follow the laws made by this House. They, by and large, choose to because they believe we have good processes, that we listen, and that we represent them, and we erode that trust at our peril. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut the second issue is that this legislation is happening in a context where there are already reasons why people in the international business community are having second thoughts about New Zealand as a safe destination to invest and to send capital. I\u2019ll just give you two examples. The recent oil and gas exploration ban: if you talk to people in that industry, they look at the process under which it came about. The Prime Minister announced it. Allegedly, there wasn\u2019t even a Cabinet paper, and the legislation followed in a rushed fashion later on. That has sent shock waves through people in that industry when it comes to investment in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EMaybe that\u2019s what the Government wanted, but even if it was, what they\u2019ve shown is that rushed and unexpected processes diminish the confidence of people who want to invest in New Zealand, because they basically say that New Zealand\u2019s actually a very difficult place to find oil and gas and to extract it, and once you get it out, it\u2019s still in a very remote location in the global context. So it\u2019s hard yakka doing oil and gas in New Zealand. But at least when you invest in New Zealand, you know it\u2019s a First World country with robust democratic processes, very good institutions, the rule of law, and your property rights are safe, so New Zealand\u2019s still worth it. We imperil that at great cost to ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe second example\u2014and, ironically, this evidence was presented to a select committee\u2014was the Overseas Investment Amendment Act which happened back in early 2018. I, as a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, heard from many people who came and submitted, and they said, \u201CYou guys have no idea what\u2019s going on out there.\u201D These are people who are Kiwis who do business around the world in places like New York and Singapore, and they said people are looking around and they are saying, \u201CWTF is happening in New Zealand right now? We thought this place was actually safe. We thought it was a great place to invest. We thought that this place welcomed foreign investment.\u201D They said, \u201CIf you guys keep doing stuff like this, it\u2019s pretty simple: people might still invest in New Zealand, but they will add on a premium for sovereign risk. They will charge more to loan to New Zealanders, because they see the risk of a country that increasingly legislates at haste and repents at will, a country that does not uphold its own processes, that rushes legislation and erratically imperils our property rights when we invest in their country.\u201D, and that is what\u2019s at stake here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIf this Parliament continues to legislate at haste and repent at leisure to rush legislation through with shortened select committee processes to try and introduce arbitrary ministerial discretion\u2014as this bill does\u2014into whether someone can invest here, then what we are going to find is that people around the world are going to expect a higher premium when they invest in New Zealand, a higher premium for sovereign risk, and what I\u2019d say to the House and say to the Government is that it can\u2019t be one or the other. If there truly is an urgent need to stop some sort of inflow of foreign capital\u2014heaven forbid\u2014and there is some sort of security issue that the Government knows about where perhaps some foreign power is seeking to overtake strategic assets\u2014you know, it\u2019s funny, everyone loves saying \u201Cstrategic assets\u201D. No one that\u2019s ever said that has been able to tell me what strategy they\u2019re referring to, but I leave that aside. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIf the Government knows that there\u2019s an urgent security threat to New Zealand or that a foreign power wants to orchestrate a takeover of assets important to New Zealand\u2019s security and economy, then they shouldn\u2019t be waiting. They should be doing it straight away. But if all we\u2019re worried about is some beleaguered hotels that are trying to keep their staff employed\u2014might get a welcome source of capital from offshore investors\u2014then there\u2019s no urgency required whatsoever. In fact, we shouldn\u2019t be trying to impede that sort of activity at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo the Government can\u2019t have it both ways. Either they should do a full select committee process where, hopefully, the complete madness of this legislation will be revealed and they\u2019ll back down, as they occasionally have\u2014I\u2019ll give them credit\u2014once or twice in the course of this Parliament, or, if there\u2019s truly a serious and urgent threat to New Zealand, they should be doing it straight away. But a 10-day, bogus select committee process will damage our international reputation and make New Zealanders pay more for capital. I oppose this motion. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc39f7cd9c5e42d29cbd8c4dab6102b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc39f7cd9c5e42d29cbd8c4dab6102b3\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00225df2856a2ce64924a67f16d384cf3274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225df2856a2ce64924a67f16d384cf3274\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for giving me the call. I rise to support the amendment by the Hon Gerry Brownlee, and I do so for six reasons. The first one is that we have listened to a Budget this afternoon where $50 billion has been set aside to help the country through the COVID crisis, but I cannot understand how this piece of legislation hinges off that Budget and why, as a result of the Budget, this is so urgent. I haven\u2019t been able to understand that connection. Therefore, I wonder why, in the context of calling for urgency on this matter, it is being done today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise that is this House has sat for three weeks, and if it was so amazingly urgent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07d6fce144b472c82c45a272dac71eb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for the House to adjourn for the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229df6a4f46fd544dd9e3a69a7eb4e8f07\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. When we rose for the dinner break, we were debating the instruction to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2019s amendment to it. Andrew Bayly had the call, and he has nine minutes and nine seconds remaining if he so wishes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774c28ec3f98492c927929aeb093ab79\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I must admit, I compliment you on what you were wearing this morning. It was the same colour as the bright sunrise that we all faced on the morning of the Budget and, I think, very appropriate given the debt figure that was mentioned today of $50 billion of additional borrowing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo, just turning back to the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2019s amendment, which was to extend the report-back date to give more time for a proper consideration of this bill, I was speaking to this bill, and I agree with it. In fact, I think there are six reasons why we do need to have an extended time frame so that this bill can be properly considered. I talked briefly before the meal break, but the first thing is in the context of the Budget that was discussed today, I cannot see the relevance of this piece of legislation and how it links back to the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI would\u2019ve thought the purpose of today was to go into urgency to make sure that the Government is achieving all the most pressing issues that relate to the Budget. But this issue wasn\u2019t actually discussed in the Budget and I can\u2019t find reference as to why this particular bill needs to be even discussed today under urgency, and, secondly, why it needs to be convened. Under the current proposal, it would be debated over the next three days of next week and reported back to the House the following Monday, which is a very, very short period of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other reason why I think the Hon Gerry Brownlee proposed this three-week extension is that this bill is actually quite technical in nature. It\u2019s got a whole number of facets, but two of particular relevance: one is the definition of what is now a foreign investor. Under the current rules, if someone has a 25 percent investment, that is deemed to be a foreign investment, and it triggers a whole lot of clauses and requirements under the Overseas Investment Act. But there have been changes to those rules, and they need to be discussed to make sure that we\u2019re actually coming up with rules that smart people cannot set about trying to work a way around them so that they don\u2019t come under the requirements of the Overseas Investment Act. That needs some time to think about that and make sure that it\u2019s appropriately drafted, and the other one is quite a substantive change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EUnder the Overseas Investment Act, currently, if foreign investors are looking to buy a New Zealand investment, they have to do what\u2019s called a counterfactual argument, which is to say that this is what the best New Zealand investor would have done with this asset that they\u2019re proposing to buy, and the foreigner has to then substantiate not only would they meet that test of what the best New Zealand investor, with all the resources\u2014no limit on that\u2014would do, but what in addition the foreign investor brings to that investment. That counterfactual test, under this proposed bill, is going to move to what is called a before and after test. Again, if we do want to enshrine some legislation that has permanence around it and is long lasting and acceptable to foreigners as well as to New Zealanders, I think that\u2019s a very substantive technical change. So those are two examples why I think the technical nature of this bill requires a lot more consideration than our hoping some people are going to turn up and our just relying on advice from officials, which may be very pertinent, but may not encompass all the various aspects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third thing that has been talked about when we were talking about the previous Overseas Investment Office amendment is the possible need for security services to provide some input on this aspect. There has been no briefing provided to the Opposition on this issue, which I think is a real mistake. That briefing would have to be undertaken next week, and, of course, the availability of those people and how people actually hold those meetings\u2014because it certainly wouldn\u2019t be done over the internet with the current Zoom arrangements. They would need to be held in person, and I think there\u2019s a recess week next week. I think the logistical issues of that are quite significant as to whether, in fact, that can take place and be communicated in a way that it ought to, given the sensitivity around some of those discussions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe fourth thing is a matter that was raised earlier as well, and I think it\u2019s particularly pertinent. If we make these changes to the Overseas Investment Act, what is the implication of that on our free-trade agreements? As many people in the House know, we\u2019ve got a multitude of free-trade agreements, and, actually, we have different standards of free-trade agreements. Some are much more comprehensive\u2014such as our favoured nation status with the Chinese Government\u2014through to other ones that are less comprehensive. Now, again, that is quite technical, and if you were to make these changes, the implications on those free-trade agreements are a really, really important consideration, because, potentially, if we impose something that is outside the reach of those foreign trade agreements, we could be taken to the World Trade Organization in some form of dispute. That would be the last thing that New Zealand needs at this point of the economic cycle, where we\u2019re right at the bottom and we\u2019re wanting to further expand our trading relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe next issue is we actually need some submitters, and if we\u2019re going to hold it next week, even if we pass this bill tomorrow or late tonight, the officials will have to do the logistical issue of working out who they\u2019re going to go and hear from, provide those submitters with a copy of the bill\u2014which, literally, has just come out today\u2014and give them enough time for them to come down or to have a hearing sometime next week, and that presupposes that all those people are available next week to make submissions. Whilst that may be possible with our domestic advisers and all those people involved, one of the things I\u2019d actually hoped we\u2019d hear from is foreigners who are looking to invest in New Zealand, to hear their issues with this bill and their context around it, and whether it still works for them, because I think that\u2019s a real test. If we are to tighten up the rules, we need to make sure we don\u2019t do it in a way that people mistakenly take a view that this bill is actually anti - foreign investment. I think that is an important consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAgain, I\u2019d just say to you: I just literally do not think there is sufficient time to actually get a reasonable number of submitters to make a high-quality submission in a matter of just two or three days. I just literally do not believe that\u2019s going to take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last thing is I just think we are treading on dangerous ground. If we get wrong this bill and the one that we discussed just before, the related overseas investment bill, the potential damage to New Zealand as a First World country, as someone who welcomes the right type of foreign investment, something that\u2019s going to support the New Zealand economy as we go forward from this incredibly difficult time over the next few years\u2014if we get this wrong and if our trading partners and our potential investors in New Zealand see it in a different light, then that is, potentially, incredibly damaging to future trade in New Zealand in export markets, and I just think that is a risk we cannot take. That\u2019s why I strongly support the amendment by the Hon Gerry Brownlee that we extend the time frame to an extra three weeks to give us sufficient time to make a quality submission and report back to the House so that there\u2019s a proper consideration of the matter. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022432ccb76202b47e7b6a28be633326f93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022432ccb76202b47e7b6a28be633326f93\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to make a brief call, with three succinct points in support of the amendment moved by the Hon Gerry Brownlee with regards to extending the select committee process out to 15 June. My first point is that in all reality, the current deadline that\u2019s been proposed by Minister David Parker is nothing but a sham select committee process. To introduce a bill tonight under urgency, expect people to take note of the ramifications of the legislation to acknowledge that we\u2019re in a lockdown currently, at level 2, to submit sensible submissions to the select committee, and for us then to have a select committee process to hear them when, again, we\u2019re all in lockdown and in recess week, I truly believe that unless it\u2019s extended, it\u2019s, effectively, a sham select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EMy second point is based on the history of the Overseas Investment Act (OIA), which was one of the first pieces of legislation passed by the Labour - New Zealand First - Greens Government after the last election. I sat on the Finance and Expenditure Committee with that particular legislation and we had literally hundreds of submissions. There was a lot of interest in that legislation, and the important point about those submissions is they were constructive and caused us to substantially change the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you two examples. One was a very good submission from a company called Conrad Properties. They argued before the select committee that the legislation as proposed would change their business model to the extent that they would not be able to build the apartments they currently had under way in Auckland, because their business model was based on pre-sales, many of them to overseas investors, and, lo and behold, the Government listened to that select committee submission and they changed the legislation to allow that company to continue to operate. We know, subsequently, that that company was a substantial donor to political parties, and to one party in particular\u2014New Zealand First and the foundation\u2014and I\u2019m sure that had no influence on the quality of the submission and the decision of the Government to change the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you another submission that came to our notice. A number of the forestry concerns were concerned that the proposed legislation would, effectively, gazump the Government\u2019s own target of a billion pine trees to be planted\u2014a billion trees. Again, and I recall from memory it was Supplementary Order Paper 209, which suddenly came in and changed the regime around forestry and liberalised it to allow overseas owners to come in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d0f40a066a4514ad6d6f1d204003e6\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: 1,000 hectares, was it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c75612223e6e4003b9a834d1b736dbb0\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was 1,000 hectares they could buy without even having to go through an OIA process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe point I\u2019m making is good submissions come before the select committee. If they\u2019re constructive, they\u2019re adhered to, and we change the legislation, and then this Parliament thinks it\u2019s got better-quality legislation coming through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to make is the effectiveness of extending it out to 15 June. We had in the debate on the introduction of the legislation the Hon David Parker talking about the rationale for this legislation is to protect strategic assets. Does the Minister truly believe that there\u2019s a deal being negotiated now, under the COVID scenario that this world faces, where any of those strategic business potentially can be sold and not affected by the current overseas investment regime? The answer to that has to be no\u2014there is no possibility of a deal being done and concluded by 15 June. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo, on those three points alone, Gerry Brownlee\u2019s amendment deserves serious consideration by this Government. If it\u2019s prepared to acknowledge that the legislation introduced under urgency requires a select committee process, let\u2019s give it a minimal select committee process that at least is constructive and realistic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002212e396510b3b43ab9d659c428945498e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212e396510b3b43ab9d659c428945498e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendment in the name of the Hon Gerry Brownlee to amend the report-back date to 15 June 2020 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222c40b56c5aad45a48fb36b8d26d3f819\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022315f61809d374ffc93b5f5122dd79988\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 25 May 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fa54d8451a342b8822618080ab4e846\u0022\u003EOverseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b4fe7f3c55c48f9a0cd2f23dff0e9fd\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00222540098426454a368f29ea65ca218a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222540098426454a368f29ea65ca218a74\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis is the second of two bills that, between them, cover the territory that was in the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 2), which was introduced on 19 March 2020, which has been sitting before members of the House now for close to two months. That bill, as I previously described, has, effectively, been split into two parts. One part was in the last bill and the other part is in this bill. The only addition to the first part was this new, lower screening threshold during the COVID period. In terms of briefings being offered to the members, briefings were offered when it was originally tabled, but, of course, COVID interrupted and\u2014through no fault of the Opposition or anyone else\u2014those briefings weren\u2019t given. And they weren\u2019t re-offered until earlier today, when we had been re-meeting under level 2, for reasons that the members understand as to where those briefings have to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EOn this side, we believe that the changes already outlined in the prior bill, plus the changes that are in this bill, together with the prior reforms that we had during this term of Parliament, are a suite which improve the integrity of our foreign investment screening regime. If I could just recap on the changes that we\u2019ve already had: we introduced new screening requirements for foreigners buying residential homes, which, from the point of view of the Government, was necessary to ensure that the housing market is set by New Zealanders for New Zealanders, and not by foreigners who don\u2019t live here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second thing we did was we reformed the overseas investment regime for forestry, and we did two things there. Firstly, we screened forest registration rights, as the Rt Hon David Carter mentioned, because they previously weren\u2019t screened by the scheme and it was being used as an avoidance mechanism and, effectively, meant that the forest regime was ineffective. At the same time, we simplified processes for forestry, because, although we wanted to have a screening regime for the future, we wanted to encourage more investment in forestry, which we did by enabling a more permissive screening regime for all classes of forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe combined changes of the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill that we\u2019ve just put to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, plus those prior changes, plus this bill, complete that package of reform. And I\u2019m confident that these bills combined will not only leave us well positioned to navigate through this current crisis but, in the long term, they support the sustainable and productive investment that we need to improve New Zealanders\u2019 living standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019ve sought and been given by the House permission to have a short select committee period for the urgent measures bill, because we need that to pass into law quickly\u2014and I would again remind the House that Australia did that by statutory regulation overnight, and Canada and Europe have already done it\u2014my intention is that the select committee and Parliament be able to fully consider this bill in a normal select committee process, a full process. And that will include interaction of the parts of this bill with the parts of the urgent bill that remain, i.e., the national interest test. So we want the select committee to have the full time under the second bill to properly consider all of those details of the national interest test, because I agree that they are worthy of that scrutiny. The only difference between the No. 2 bill that\u2019s been there for two months and these two bills combined is actually the short-term intervention in respect of COVID that takes the threshold down to zero for that COVID period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs prior speakers on both sides of the House have noted, overseas investment does benefit New Zealand. It creates jobs, brings new technology, boosts productivity, drives growth, brings international connections, and our economy is built on openness to trade and productive investment, and the Government wants to ensure that this continues. At the same time, we know that some overseas investment can bring risks or disadvantages, and we think it\u2019s appropriate that the overseas investment regime can manage these. In respect of the survey that I think one of the members was referring to when he said that New Zealand\u2019s international rules relating to overseas investment are already quite strict, that is only true in respect of land-based investments. It\u2019s actually not true in respect of business investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe balance that we need is, of course, always a matter for debate, and we think the balance is not currently right. This particular bill has two main parts. Firstly, it codifies into the primary Act the effect of existing regulations about investments in rural land, and we think that it\u2019s appropriate that that sit in primary legislation rather than be able to be changed by Ministers from Government to Government by statutory regulation. It is, of course, the right of any Government to change those, if they can convince Parliament that they should, but we think they should have to come to Parliament to make those changes, rather than do it by statutory regulation, and I\u2019ll give a point to illustrate why that\u2019s necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFollowing the controversies when the Rt Hon David Carter\u2014I\u2019m not sure if you were still Minister of Agriculture at the time, or whether you were in the Chair, but there were controversies around the sale of the Crafar Farms to overseas interests. At the time, the National Party said that, in response to the public outcry, they were going to make it harder to buy rural land, and they introduced a rule that they said was going to achieve that purpose. What it said was, through a side letter they sent to the Overseas Investment Office, please look favourably and approve applications to buy farms up to 10 times the size of that type of farm. So you could buy 10 times the size of an ordinary dairy farm, get approval, and then get turned down on the 11th. You could do the same with sheep farms, or sheep and beef farms. Now, we thought that that was really pulling the wool over the eyes of New Zealanders, and didn\u2019t think that was right. We removed that, we changed the letter of expectations, but we\u2019re now saying that those changes and the existing regulatory standards should, in effect, be brought into the primary Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe second thing it does is it has further measures to cut red tape to streamline the process for most people investing in New Zealand, which will help our attractiveness. In terms of the red-tape cutting, we\u2019re building greater flexibility into the consent process for both prospective and repeat investors of good character. This will enable investors to complete transactions more quickly, with lower compliance costs, having met the simplified good character relationships, either as part of previous transactions or in advance of a current transaction. We\u2019re removing short-term leases and some other less-than-freehold interests in land from screening. As I\u2019ve said in respect of land, we don\u2019t really think that there\u2019s any economic benefit in selling our farmland to overseas interests. We think that our farmers are amongst the most efficient in the world, and it\u2019s interesting that most of us, at the moment, are very thankful that our farming industries and our farm processing industries, which are dominated by New Zealand ownership, are actually still performing for us through COVID. I think we should reflect on the fact that the status quo is actually performing very well for New Zealand, and that we ought not to put that at risk by selling land-based assets overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo this codifies those positions rather than lets a future Government, by regulation, effectively by stealth, after not having campaigned on the issue\u2014just doing it by Government regulation in a way that would cause more of our farms to be overseas-owned and for us to be tenants in our own land. There are some changes in there relating to bottled water on sensitive land, where discretion is allowed to ensure that there\u2019s not going to be an impact on water quality and sustainability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, we think that, as always, the role of productive investment is important to lifting New Zealand\u2019s wellbeing and productivity. I actually agree with some of the comments that were made by the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2014that we have to be careful that we don\u2019t become so restrictive that distressed assets can\u2019t be sold when there\u2019s a proper reason to do so. But we also need to be careful that we have the appropriate protections in so that the Governments of the day can protect the national economic interest as they see it, as part of their right to govern. I recommend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00221f4dbfd0056947208689225bd8458dab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f4dbfd0056947208689225bd8458dab\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. So here we are with the second of the overseas investment bills, and the National Party will again support this bill to the select committee for further consideration. Look, we\u2019re supportive particularly of the elements of this legislation that aim to make it simpler for people to make productive investments in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, just for people tuning in, if we go right back to where we get jobs and growth from, and opportunities for New Zealanders, fundamentally most of those jobs and opportunities come from somebody, somewhere, making an investment\u2014an investment in a new business. To rebuild their business, to start a business, to grow their business, to take a chance, to take a risk, to be entrepreneurial, and to get ahead, ultimately, you have to invest some money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve seen today in this Budget, where New Zealand has fallen into a colossal economic hole initiated by this virus, and we\u2019re now looking at, you know, new debt of up to $140 billion\u2014extra $80,000 per household\u2014and unemployment rising, we\u2019re in desperate need of economic growth and opportunities, and so we\u2019re in a desperate need for investment. Now, there are only two places you can get investment from: either domestically\u2014that is, from New Zealanders\u2014or/and the rest of the world. Now, if we rely entirely on domestic savings for investment, well, that\u2019s fine, but we\u2019ll grow quite slowly because there\u2019s not that much of it. So if we want to grow faster and if we want to have more opportunities, we need to get money from the rest of the world\u2014which is what we do, and which is what we\u2019ve done for the history of this country for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb0fd5edd7b43039e3584dd89d0c297\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s on to it. Since Kupe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a167dc3ca08b494ba77de13ccde4d070\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. It\u2019s what has led to the growth of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, in the meantime, in response to concerns particularly around land and around sensitive land, sets of rules have been developed to ensure that when overseas interests purchase sensitive land in New Zealand, in particular, they have to go through a series of hoops. Now, obviously, nobody can take the land away, and so the land will always remain there, but a lot of New Zealanders have been concerned about our ownership and direction over land across the countryside. You can argue about the merits of that. There are benefits in terms of having some sense of comfort that we\u2019re not going to be tenants in our own land\u2014the fear that many people have. Against that, of course, these rules become very tedious and cumbersome and difficult to negotiate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe practical reality of the current laws is that because they are so difficult\u2014and particularly because they\u2019re so hard to predict the outcome of those laws\u2014when an international investor is considering buying something in New Zealand, or has an interest in New Zealand which involves lots of landholding, then it becomes very complicated and very time-consuming. Now, the logical outcome of that is that many foreign investors who could be investing in this country, providing jobs and opportunities for New Zealanders, will throw up their hands and say, \u201CIt\u2019s all too hard; I\u2019ll go somewhere else\u201D. Because there\u2019s a whole world out there of places where you can invest; you don\u2019t have to invest in New Zealand, and if we make it too difficult and too complicated, they won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo this bill does some things that will make it easier\u2014in particular, no longer requiring low-risk transactions to be screened. Now, obviously, we in the National Party would like this to go further, but it\u2019s saying that investments in less sensitive land that are only screened because land adjoins land that is sensitive in its own right won\u2019t need to be screened. You would think that would be pretty obvious. So we\u2019re protecting sensitive land, but under the current regimes, if you happen to be dealing with land that\u2019s next to sensitive land, well, then that gets caught up in the system, which is terribly cumbersome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got: it affects many New Zealand companies and people. We think of New Zealand companies\u2014like Fletcher\u2019s, for example\u2014but because there\u2019s a certain amount of international shareholders over a particular threshold, that gets caught up in the regime. So they have to go through hoops every time they want to purchase land and move around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis legislation also excludes leases for less than 10 years, which, again, we\u2019d prefer that to go further. But at least it makes it a little bit easier and removes a section of transactions from this whole cumbersome process. It also streamlines various other processes, and so forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo to the extent to which this bill streamlines the process a little bit, we are supportive of that. We notice that there are some elements to this bill which go the other way and are somewhat vague\u2014I\u2019m referring to some reference to M\u0101ori cultural values and w\u0101hi t\u016Bpuna. So it will be very important that we have some clarity about exactly what that means so that people who are sort of contemplating purchasing things consider that. The information required to be disclosed regarding the tax structure and tax treatment probably is useful and helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe final point I\u2019d make is that we\u2019re at a time now where there will be many businesses across the country that are shaky\u2014in fact, could be about to fall over and New Zealanders are about to lose their jobs. There will be examples where there will be people around the world prepared to invest in those companies and put some money into those companies because they think they\u2019re fundamentally good businesses, they need to get through a very difficult spell where they haven\u2019t been able to sell any products, get any revenue, and they just need some capital injection to get through the next couple of months. If we make that too difficult because of these laws\u2014this one and the previous one\u2014then we could be costing more jobs. We\u2019ve had a Budget where tens, indeed hundreds, of billions of dollars have been thrown at the task of trying to save jobs and help the New Zealand economy. If we\u2019re passing legislation that goes in the opposite direction, that would be, obviously, highly counter-productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ll be looking very closely at this bill as it goes through the select committee. We are hopeful and, indeed, confident that by the time that it comes out of the select committee there will be a different Government and we\u2019ll have a good chance to scrutinise this and make sure that it does the best job possible in order to provide the opportunity for New Zealand companies to get the capital they need to provide jobs and opportunities for New Zealanders. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022d79f5955af2447d6a43a532a176487f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d79f5955af2447d6a43a532a176487f0\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to speak to several points in respect of this bill. The Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) is the second overseas investment bill we have considered this evening, and I will look forward to working on both of them as they progress through the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to speak to a point that\u2019s been raised both in respect of this bill and in respect of the previous bill, and that is how to deal with businesses which are, like businesses worldwide at the moment, facing tough times, finding it hard to get through. Businesses that could survive just with a bit of a hand\u2014a bit of overseas investment is the particular case that we\u2019re looking at here. The line that has been taken by some people in this House is they said, \u201CWell, hang on a second, if we\u2019re not going to have overseas investments, we\u2019ll be sacrificing jobs, and those are much needed jobs.\u201D Indeed, we\u2019ve had a Budget today which has worked on jobs, so there\u2019s real focus on it. But that is to imply that all overseas investments would necessarily be turned down, and they won\u2019t. What overseas investments of any particular scale need to pass is a test of whether they are not in the national interest. May I suggest that it would be quite straightforward to argue that an overseas investment that supports and creates jobs is indeed in the national interest. It is not actually a problem that it goes through a test first, because that is a fairly straightforward test to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWe have seen in recent months cases where people who have bought assets in New Zealand with Overseas Investment Office approval have been required to sell those assets because they made commitments about what they would do with the properties they bought and then didn\u2019t fulfil them. So quite properly, they were asked to then sell the assets. What this suggests is that our overseas investment process is, in many respects, working, but there are some aspects of it that we need to tidy up and that we need to do better. We can do it faster, we can do it better, we can cut some of the unnecessary red tape around it, but we do not want to cut all the hurdles\u2014we do not want to cut all the hurdles. Why? Because we do want to protect our assets. We do want to protect the values of New Zealand. We do want to protect those things that are precious to us, such as our most valuable land, such as our wonderful natural assets, such as our water, which will be covered in this bill. We do want to give due regard to the values that come to us from the tangata whenua and make sure that they are respected. They may not be easy things to do, but they are things we ought to try to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, this bill will require things, if it goes through, like that overseas investment in farmland will be required to bring a substantial benefit to New Zealand before they can acquire farmland. That seems to me to be a reasonable thing, but let\u2019s talk about that in the select committee. It will ensure that before overseas persons can bottle water on sensitive land, if it goes through, that we\u2019ll need to consider the impact on water quality. Will it have an adverse effect on water quality? It would be a test that an overseas investor would need to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019re trying to do is make it easier in some respects for overseas investors, but not so easy that overseas investors need to have no regard for our values. That is what this bill is attempting to do. I\u2019m sure that the select committee process will refine it. Even though, as I recall, members on the Opposition voted against the previous overseas investment bill that we had towards the start of this Parliament, they nevertheless worked to refine the bill in the select committee in what was an excellent process. I hope that process will be replicated as we examine this bill in the months ahead. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00229454e72d0e6d400ba8d6e0ffddbc9ac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229454e72d0e6d400ba8d6e0ffddbc9ac8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (National\u2014Papakura):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party is supporting this bill to select committee. We support anything where there is at least an intention to streamline processes, but most attempts at streamlining processes, I\u2019ve noticed over the years, tend to actually make them worse. But isn\u2019t that the rule of good intentions? That\u2019s a bit harsh, but it\u2019s probably true. We think it\u2019s a good idea to no longer have to require investors to carry out a full screening process once they\u2019ve already been screened and approved for an investment. These are the sorts of things that add a lot of time and cost, and actually time is money when you\u2019re paying for the time of your lawyers and your advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important, I think, to\u2014and having listened to the member who\u2019s just resumed her seat, Deborah Russell\u2014you know, there\u2019s nothing in here, when I\u2019ve looked through, about property rights or any concept that once one owns property, actually one owns property rather than simply then everyone else gets a say about what you do with that property. I know it\u2019s currently a foreign idea, this concept of property rights, and I can see my good friend Eugenie Sage sitting up in horror at the concept of it. But actually, surely, when people pay for land, they pay for land. But we\u2019re very aware that people want to make sure that some assets remain in New Zealand and that New Zealanders get a fair opportunity to partake of the wonderful natures of our country and assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EBut I do sometimes think that there\u2019s a tremendous amount of worry about what might happen when, actually, as I look around the Parliament, most of the people here are children of immigrants. Some are immigrants themselves, grandchildren of immigrants, in some cases, many decades back. But, actually, people come to New Zealand to get ahead in life and we\u2019re a very long way from anywhere else. So bringing in whatever we do in relation to overseas investment, we need to understand that overseas investment is generally a good thing. There\u2019ll be some instances where it hasn\u2019t worked out well for the country, and I think that those need to be acknowledged, but, actually, mostly it\u2019s a good thing. Because one of the things with a country of our population of a mere five million people, smaller than Melbourne, in an area larger than the United Kingdom\u2014the one thing we really lack, apart from people, is we actually lack capital. And that capital holds us back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EWe get often very proud of the fact\u2014we like to talk about the No. 8 mentality that we have to get things fixed; it\u2019s actually quite a sad indictment on the fact that we don\u2019t have enough money to buy what we should have bought in the first place. That is, I think, one of the sad things with this, but generally we think it\u2019s a good idea to try and streamline the processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not sure that everything in here is going to be treated with universal acclaim by the National Party, but we\u2019ll give it a fair opportunity to go to select committee. We think the select committee process is far too short. These are very important and serious issues, and they shouldn\u2019t be just rushed through in a very shortened process in the select committee\u2014which the current Government decried every time it happened when we were in Government, and suddenly it\u2019s all OK to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI guess we should be very grateful that at least in the select committee we\u2019ll have an opportunity to talk about the details. At least we will be able to have some submissions from the public, and we would like to hope that people who are actually involved in investment in New Zealand, or people who are trying to get some investment into their businesses so they don\u2019t have to sell them or actually just close their doors on them, will want to be able to give submissions on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EI went for a walk yesterday\u2014I\u2019m sure you all want to know about this\u2014around Wellington Central, a nice long walk, and I thought there was nothing open, really, apart from a couple of places selling a few cups of coffee to people as they wandered by. It was so empty and eerie, it was like I was expecting some tumble weeds to come racing down the street. It was so empty. I hope it\u2019s better today; because I\u2019ve been so busy here all day, I haven\u2019t had a chance to go out. But I really do think we need to get ourselves, basically, into the real world. We need money in this country and we need it fast, so let\u2019s not be silly; let\u2019s help this bill get through to the select committee and let\u2019s actually have some streamlined processes, and let\u2019s hope that for once they actually do work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2edf802b10b4c5999b1db700a584043\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2edf802b10b4c5999b1db700a584043\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m looking forward to having this bill come before the Finance and Expenditure Committee, mainly because this is something that New Zealanders are really passionate about: making sure that everything that we have here in New Zealand is protected for us as New Zealanders. And it shouldn\u2019t be seen in isolation: in fact, this Government has done a lot of work. In terms of screening housing and in terms of forestry, we\u2019ve done a lot of work to make sure that New Zealanders are proud to say that, actually, New Zealand is for New Zealanders. But we can\u2019t turn away the thought that, in fact, overseas investment does in fact benefit New Zealand. We get to take advantage of some of the new technologies that overseas investment brings. Some of our productivity is driven by that overseas investment. So we don\u2019t want to shut it out, but we do absolutely want to control it, and why shouldn\u2019t we, because we set the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I\u2019m looking forward to most about this bill coming before our select committee is the protection that it\u2019s going to afford land and our natural assets. Now, those of us that have electorates which span the Eastern Bay of Plenty know that in fact there has been a lot of heartache, especially around water and the Overseas Investment Office. In fact, there have been applications from overseas companies to buy up sections of land which has beautiful pristine springs on it, and, in fact, it\u2019s brought a lot of grief to M\u0101ori communities in the Eastern Bay of Plenty especially. I want to especially mention Ng\u0101ti Awa and also Ng\u0101ti Manawa as well, who were thinking about embarking on water bottling as their way of economic freedom. But, in fact, what this bill is going to do is it\u2019s going to make sure that if there are applications that come in to buy tracts of land where overseas persons are looking to bottle our water, then, actually, Ministers will need to consider the impact of that proposal on water quality and also sustainability. They will have to make sure that it is in the best interests and the benefits of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo this is a really good bill. It\u2019s long overdue\u2014long overdue\u2014and I know that when I go back to my electorate, I\u2019ll be talking to a lot of our M\u0101ori communities who feel really passionate about the water-bottling issue, and I\u2019ll be able to say that this Government is absolutely doing something to make sure that we\u2019ve got some structure in place so that our land and our water isn\u2019t taken from underneath our noses. So I absolutely commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f272c69a198343998e198c72a369981e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f272c69a198343998e198c72a369981e\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Hunua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I note with interest how you\u2019re keenly observing this debate tonight, which I must compliment you on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce6ea5d3b3d4aa1b58271b86c11a7a6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Flattery will get you everywhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111d02f51d87450d9329d9f5342a4041\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s correct. I just say to the member who\u2019s resumed his seat, Tamati Coffey, when he returns back to his electorate, probably on Saturday morning, I hope someone in his electorate and particularly on his marae might ask him the question: why is it that the Government, which he is obviously part of, pass legislation that allowed foreign investors to buy up to a thousand hectares of land without any Overseas Investment Act requirements? They were loosened under the bill that he was a select committee member on. And so when he talks about protecting New Zealand land, the very Government that he\u2019s part of made it much, much more permissive for foreigners to buy New Zealand farmland. This issue needs to be in the context of understanding that 72 percent of forestry land and forests in New Zealand is currently and already owned by foreigners. So why was his Government prepared to allow and open it up even more, when he\u2019s just given a speech saying that he wants to make sure that land is better protected? There is a total contradiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWe know why it occurred: because one of his support partners required it. It is outrageous for the Government members to stand up and try and say that they are better protecting land, when they are allowing thousands and thousands of hectares to be bought by foreigners and to wait\u2014it may not even be planted immediately, but eventually will end up in forest, with all the downsides that then happens when already 72 percent of forests in New Zealand are owned by foreigners. I just think there is a lack of concurrence and clarity around what they are trying to achieve. This bill does some improvements; I accept that. But there is still that total illogicality of what went on last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other thing I find about this overseas investment bill, and I\u2019ve spoken on it a few times already\u2014the thing I find about the Government\u2019s attitude to overseas investment is this paternalistic approach. So if I\u2019m an entrepreneur and I decide that I\u2019m going to set up a new business, and I might have to buy a facility with a bit of land on it and I take all the risks of setting up a brand new facility, all the financial risks, all the market risks\u2014I might mortgage my house to do it, which is the normal way that people start\u2014and I get over many, many years to a situation where it is a substantial business and a foreign investor wants to come in, somehow the members on that side, the Government members, think that they have the right to say, \u201CWell, you know that business that you took all the risk on and we as the Government didn\u2019t do anything about it or didn\u2019t support you, you did it of your own right?\u201D Somehow, under certain circumstances, you want to say that that business is so important that some Minister\u2014and we don\u2019t even know who the Minister might be; it might be David Parker today and it might be someone after 19 September\u2014probably with very few commercial skills, sitting in Wellington, now has the divine right, and it is a divine right in the sense that he or she can decide whether or not you can sell that business to a foreigner. That paternalistic attitude around it I find slightly grating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo, as I\u2019ve said before, we will support this, but I find the way that the Government members talk about this bill, and the righteousness that they\u2019ve been espousing about these overseas investment bills when there are clear areas where you could drive a bulldozer through, is not appropriate, and I think if you want to do it, do it properly. That\u2019s why it\u2019s important that all these bills should be heard and properly considered over time, and not rushed through this House just because we think we need to do something under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u00222fd04de8cabf4352a824eeeb2983f56b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fd04de8cabf4352a824eeeb2983f56b\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Thank you, Madam Speaker. In terms of the National Party and the Opposition that it has had previously\u2014and the House spent over half an hour, I think, around the shortened select committee process\u2014what some of the members didn\u2019t seem to realise there is that with the previous bill, the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Amendment Bill, yes, that is going through a shortened process, but the fact that this bill, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), is going through the full select committee process means that if there are any changes that are made in the urgent measures bill which are problematic, then they can potentially be addressed through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThat was one of the reasons that the Green Party was happy to support urgency for the previous bill\u2014and also because, given the COVID crisis, given the financial hardship and economic distress that some firms are under, it is critical that the emergency measures and the requirement for any transactions that will seek to have a greater than 25 percent share being overseas owned be notified to Government, go through that 10-day quick assessment process, and, if there are significant issues that relate to national interest, then the Minister of Finance can consider that in a more detailed way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIn terms of this bill, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 2) that was introduced into the House in March is being withdrawn, and this one is taking its place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Hon Judith Collins talked about streamlining. This bill makes a real effort to streamline the process by which applications are considered. It does things like introducing a much better test for character. It deals with the whole issue of the way that that is assessed and makes it more efficient to do that. It also provides for a regulation-making power which enables the Government to introduce an emergency notification regime if needed at any time in the future, if we need to respond to a future emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the key things, though, that is really important about this No. 3 bill is the fact\u2014and Minister Parker outlined it as well\u2014that at the moment the ministerial directive outlines the criteria which are to be taken into account when Government assesses whether there\u2019s a substantial and identifiable benefit from an overseas person buying farmland. We know that New Zealand farmers are amongst the most efficient in the world. There is really a significant benefit for an overseas person coming in and buying farmland. So in this bill those criteria will become statutory, rather than just being in a ministerial letter. So any overseas applicant will have to demonstrate a substantial point of difference in the likely level of economic benefit or oversight or participation by New Zealanders if they want to receive consent for that purchase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EOne of the other issues that this bill strengthens\u2014again, recognising that it is a privilege for an overseas person to own land in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014is the requirements around advertising. That\u2019s to ensure that any New Zealanders wanting to buy a farm get an opportunity to see it being advertised\u2014because there have quite often been some retrospective applications for consents when those advertising requirements haven\u2019t always been fully implemented. So this is updating this requirement, ensuring that it can be done on electronic media as well as in print media, and just strengthening that requirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue where it\u2019s making a significant improvement is in relation to completing the Queen\u2019s chain by requiring that areas of foreshore and seabed and riverbed can be transferred to the Crown when the adjacent land is sold to an overseas purchaser. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EAs Tamati Coffey mentioned, the issue of water bottling and overseas companies taking water from Aotearoa and exporting it without paying anything for that water is a hot button issue for New Zealanders. This bill, largely because of the advocacy of Green colleagues, is about enabling decision makers to consider the impacts of investments where an overseas company or person is wanting to buy land and that land has a water right attached to it that could be used for water bottling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESimilarly, it is bringing the legislation up to date and requiring much clearer consideration of issues around tikanga M\u0101ori and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori so that that is more of a factor\u2014those cultural values\u2014in decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a significant improvement. The bill represents a lot of the consultation that was done on the phase two changes to the Overseas Investment Act\u2014recognising that phase one was about reducing speculation, particularly by overseas owners in our housing market; stopping that happening\u2014and working to implement a number of quite practical changes to improve the process and to ensure that the environmental benefits of investment can also be better considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party supports this bill, is pleased that the Opposition is supporting it going to select committee, and has every confidence that the Finance and Expenditure Committee will give it very serious and thorough consideration. We\u2019d also like to particularly acknowledge all of the officials in Land Information New Zealand, the Overseas Investment Office, Treasury, and other Government agencies who have worked incredibly hard over a short period of time in response to COVID in taking apart, really, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 2), putting some of the measures into the urgent measures bill and the other ones into this. So I really congratulate and thank them for their work and commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022db18dd3895ad433486989b1598b06c78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db18dd3895ad433486989b1598b06c78\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E As has been mentioned by previous National speakers, we will support this legislation, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No\u00A03), to the select committee. But the first question I have, that hasn\u2019t been addressed by any member in the House tonight\u2014and I want the next Labour member to rise and address this question\u2014is why, if it\u2019s going to a select committee for a full six months, is it having to be passed under urgency tonight? Duncan Webb shakes his head. He hasn\u2019t got a clue. But I\u2019m going to tell him the answer. I\u2019m going to tell him the answer. It\u2019s because there\u2019s nothing in the Budget that the Government wants to debate tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s the biggest-spending Budget we\u2019ve seen in the history of New Zealand, but it lacks detail, so they\u2019ve had the shortest-possible debate today on the Budget. They\u2019ve slammed it down, they\u2019ve put the House into urgency, and, suddenly, the second piece of legislation we\u2019re discussing, the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), is off to a select committee for a full six months, to come back after the election. So why do we have to do it in urgency tonight? There\u2019s no possible\u2014Duncan Webb\u2019s ready to rise to his feet. I\u2019m going to look for the answer. I\u2019ve already given him the answer. He\u2019ll fluff around the edges, trying to give an excuse as to why. The only reason is this Government doesn\u2019t want us here tonight analysing the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to note is why does the Hon David Parker hate foreign direct investment? He\u2019s been the Minister for Trade and Export Growth now for 2\u00BD years, and this is now the fourth piece of legislation he\u2019s brought to the House to make it tougher for foreign direct investment in New Zealand\u2014the fourth piece of legislation he\u2019s entered into the House. For the first one, Duncan Webb sat in the select committee. Lots and lots of submissions. We worked on it for months. Good submissions, particularly the ones that had an association with New Zealand First: Conrad Properties, the forestry industry. We brought in substantive amendments through the select committee process, to get a better bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EIt was interesting, for me, how they introduced this legislation restricting foreign ownership of land at the same time the Hon Shane Jones was trying to push his tree programme. He\u2019d been asleep at the Cabinet meeting that pushed the legislation through and suddenly realised he was in trouble with these overseas investors, so they passed a Supplementary Order Paper at the very last minute making it easier\u2014easier\u2014for foreigners to come in and buy our farmland, provided they\u2019re planting it into trees. A thousand hectares: it\u2019s easy to buy. If you\u2019re a foreigner, it\u2019s easy to buy a thousand hectares, provided you\u2019re putting it into trees. And consequently, we\u2019ve seen good farmland coming out of sheep and beef production, going into trees supported by a subsidy to plant those trees, all because the Hon Shane Jones went around at the last election with his mate the Rt Hon Winston Peters talking about a billion trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhen I look at the main purposes of the legislation, it enables a higher threshold for acquiring farmland, reflecting its economic significance and cultural importance. I\u2019m actually at the very liberal end of foreigners coming into this country and buying farmland. I\u2019ve observed a number of farms in Canterbury that have been run by farmers over generations who, coming to the end of their farming life, put it up for sale. It\u2019s been bought by somebody who is a foreigner, but they\u2019ve come in with substantial investment. They\u2019ve hugely improved the farm. They\u2019ve employed more people. As I drive around in Canterbury I look at those farms, and they\u2019re far more productive. They\u2019re far more attractive to look at than what they were under the previous owner. Many of them have been bought by Americans\u2014not a lot of issue there. Many of them have been bought by Australians\u2014not a lot of issue there. But if they\u2019re bought by an Asian, particularly a Chinese: outrage from the community, outrage from Labour, outrage from New Zealand First. There\u2019s a word for that, and it begins with \u201CR\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe second main purpose of this legislation, it says, is to enable decision makers to consider the impacts of investment involving water bottling. The Hon Eugenie Sage has just sat down and said this is a hot button issue, and I agree it is. Because I know of a particular plant in Kaiapoi, just north of Christchurch\u2014not a lot of significant land involved, but a big investment there\u2014attempting to bottle water. It\u2019s a very abundant artisan well, and if it\u2019s not tapped and utilised at that source, it bubbles out to sea\u2014well, if you think about it, then to be contaminated. But the issue, again, is the investors in this particular water-bottling plant. They\u2019re not American. They\u2019re not Australian. They\u2019re Chinese, and that\u2019s wound the local community up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ENow, if you think about the economics, the wasted opportunity if we don\u2019t bottle that water and if we don\u2019t take the opportunity to export it and earn overseas funds\u2014think about the lost opportunity. And then the Greens are normally concerned about the environmental impacts of our export industries. Tell me one primary industry in New Zealand that would have less environmental impact than bottling beautifully clean, pure water out of an artisan well, putting it in a bottle, and sending it overseas to earn foreign exchange. The answer is, there isn\u2019t one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo National will support the legislation to a select committee. I won\u2019t be here to consider the submissions, but I\u2019ll be watching and talking to my mates with great interest. But I do come from a very liberal point of view on foreign investment, because this country was built on foreign investment. Consider the insurance industry, consider the meat-processing industry: founded here in this country, both those industries, entirely on foreign investment, and over time, it transitions, comes into New Zealand ownership. It\u2019s good. But we\u2019ve got a Budget delivered today which we now know the Government didn\u2019t want to continue debating, a Budget that was meant to deliver jobs. Well, you don\u2019t get jobs unless you\u2019ve got a business, and you don\u2019t get jobs unless that business has some capital to invest. And if this Government over there thinks, in this time, that New Zealand has an abundance of capital to play with, they\u2019re dreaming, they\u2019re delusional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWe need foreign investment in this country, and this sort of legislation, the fourth such piece of legislation advanced by the Hon David Parker in just 2\u00BD years, sends all the wrong signals to potential overseas investors\u2014who were interested in New Zealand; they\u2019ve been turned off dramatically over the last 2\u00BD years. And this will be a further nail in that coffin, that will actually make the Prime Minister\u2019s wish for the Budget that her Government delivered today to deliver jobs\u2014it\u2019ll make this a lot, lot harder to do so, and who suffers then? The very people who, traditionally, vote Labour at an election. Many of them, by the time we get to the election, are going to be unemployed, and I\u2019m going to be campaigning saying if this Government had any sense and any economic realism about what drives an economy, they\u2019d actually be doing the opposite, would actually be making it easier for foreign investors to come into this country. Because if they come in, invest in businesses: there\u2019s your job opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00223ec9d944237a411785db3cdeee39de3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ec9d944237a411785db3cdeee39de3a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002234414f58e8144970b2502461f0ad7d8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234414f58e8144970b2502461f0ad7d8d\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E What a shame that previous speaker, David Carter, didn\u2019t actually listen before standing up and speaking, because he may have heard the explanation for his question from my colleague here, the Hon Eugenie Sage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EFor those listening at home, there are two important pieces of legislation. The first piece of legislation we heard tonight was about dealing with some urgent issues around COVID. It appears to have missed the attention of the previous speaker that we are in the middle of a COVID emergency, and the first piece of legislation is intended to deal with that. The second piece of legislation\u2014I hope you are listening, the Rt Hon David Carter\u2014is to ensure that any issues that arise from the need to address that one with some urgency are dealt with in the second piece of legislation, which will go through with plenty of time to do the very things that you are worried won\u2019t be done. So can I encourage the member to sit and listen, and he may learn something between now and the short time before he leaves this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Judith Collins made an interesting comment here. If you\u2019d sat here and listened, you\u2019d have thought that there is no risk to this country in allowing anybody who wants to, with a big enough chequebook, to come in here and buy what they liked. She pointed out that we are all children of immigrants here, whether it was from the Pacific in the 1200s, or right until recently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWell, I happen to have a surname\u2014and my cousin Damien, next to me, is another\u2014the most common surname in this House is O\u2019Connor, which means we came from Ireland. That means that we understand what happens when, strategically, you lose all control of your land, because it means that those with English-sounding names\u2014and, actually, I do note that four of the speakers, as I looked on Wikipedia, all have English-origin names. Goldsmith, Carter, Bayly, and Smith: all English surnames. The English came, they owned the land in Ireland, and so that meant that when there was a famine, when the potatoes failed, they were exporting the food from Ireland while the country went from 8 million to 1 million. They starved. That\u2019s what happens when, strategically, you lose control of your land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, I agree that we do need to have the balance right. We do need overseas investment, but overseas investment is about making sure that you keep control of your destiny. It\u2019s about being strategic, and what we\u2019re talking about is strategy, a strategy which, clearly, those members opposite are incapable of understanding. So, for that reason, this is a necessary, welcome, important piece of legislation that those who come after us will be very, very grateful for. I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022788a44b71760471181d11c3200c8db2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022788a44b71760471181d11c3200c8db2a\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E That was a fine performance\u2014a fine performance\u2014about potatoes from the previous speaker, Greg O\u2019Connor. But I do want to come back to what we\u2019re trying to do here and, really, the importance of today. Today, the largest spending and borrowing Budget of all time\u2014and about three hours afterwards we\u2019re in urgency debating at a first reading a piece of legislation that is now going to have a six-month select committee process. It defies logic that on the day of the Budget, New Zealand\u2019s worst economic day in decades, we are discussing a bill like this under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s clear we support this bill going to the first reading, because there are some very good things in it. But I challenge the Government, including the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of Forestry: we have a six-month process; why do we not, in this bill, address the issue of forestry? The only investment available for foreign investors right now is to go and buy farmland and plant it in trees, and members only need to talk\u2014and I know the Ministers have\u2014to the mayors of Wairoa, Gisborne, the Wairarapa to know that they are horrified with what\u2019s going on, horrified. So why in this bill, when all these other things are in here to be looked at, has this Government conveniently chosen not to bring this piece of legislation before the House? After all, we have six months\u2014six months\u2014of a select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s deliberate. I think it\u2019s deliberate because the Government know there is a big con going on in New Zealand when the only farmland you can buy without any necessary approval is good New Zealand farmland, taking sheep off it, and putting it into pine trees. It is amazing that two months ago farmers were enemy number one of the coalition Government\u2014enemy number one. Now, they are the saviours of New Zealand\u2014the saviours of New Zealand. They\u2019re going to come out\u2014the agricultural industry is going to save New Zealand and bring it out of this great recession. They\u2019re going to pay the borrowings, they\u2019re going to pay all the money back, and they\u2019re going to help New Zealand out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThat same Government that has turned on a dime in two months\u2014that same Government\u2014now wants to plant all the East Coast of New Zealand in pine trees, because this bill had an opportunity to try and redress that balance but they\u2019ve chosen not to. And I\u2019m quite upset about that because, ultimately, in communities like mine, to the south of where I represent, to the north of where I represent\u2014and Kiritapu Allan knows this; Meka Whaitiri knows this; they all know what\u2019s going on. Yet if I look on this paper\u2014not a mention, not a mention of what we\u2019re going to do about forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIn closing, I want to talk about one issue of this bill which I particularly support, and that is around leasing of interests of less than 10 years where this threshold has reached into a single interest. I want to point out what this practically means in my own electorate. A significant number of horticultural operations and a significant number of international interests like Heinz Wattie\u2019s and McCain have a supply chain which relies on leases of farmland, and unless this bill is passed and it is changed\u2014and I very much support this part\u2014they have to apply for the Overseas Investment Office to renew their lease. Now, they are international corporates. They are employing thousands of people in my electorate. They\u2019re a wonderful company. They\u2019re using our land and resources on a lease basis\u2014they don\u2019t own it\u2014and there is a flaw in the law which this bill addresses. It\u2019s very costly, very disruptive, and above all it takes away a lot of confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to talk about is water bottling, and the Hon Eugenie Sage has talked about it. Yes, in certain communities it is a hot button issue, but in other communities it\u2019s not. If you\u2019re on the West Coast and you get 5 metres of rain a year\u2014and I\u2019m guessing what the number is\u2014and most of it goes from the mountains to the sea, if somebody wanted to come and set up a water bottling plant on the West Coast of the South Island and employ 1,000 people, you would get a very different result than you might get in Hawke\u2019s Bay. So I think we need to be very careful\u2014very careful\u2014how we control water bottling. I accept it\u2019s an issue, but in some parts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b83ed898e3084710829561b1eed63f2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b83ed898e3084710829561b1eed63f2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. This is a split call\u2014[Interruption] Order! This is a split call. I call David Seymour\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022aae359776dfe4789892f8dbda45c4f07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aae359776dfe4789892f8dbda45c4f07\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to this Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3). In deciding to oppose it, I had to weigh up three things. One is that it is true there are elements of this bill that actually make it easier to get foreign investment into New Zealand, which ACT has always supported, for reasons that I\u2019ve gone into detail in many speeches in this House, including the one given earlier this morning. In fact, ACT MPs have been doing that for about 25 years now. Number two, there are certainly parts of the bill that make it much more difficult for foreign investment to be brought into New Zealand. And number three is the question of change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis is the fourth foreign investment bill or overseas investment amendment bill that this Government has brought in 2\u00BD years. If you weigh those up, well, the things that make it harder to invest, \u201Cembedding a higher threshold for acquiring farm land, reflecting its significant economic and cultural importance,\u201D\u2014you know, what that means in practice is that it\u2019s going to be more difficult for the likes of Stephensons, who own a whole lot of land on the Central Plateau, to sell it and free up capital for other projects, such as a housing project in South Auckland. That\u2019s what happened to them. This restriction on selling farmland actually cost New Zealanders housing developments, because New Zealanders weren\u2019t free to use their capital that they owned freely under the laws set down by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt says, \u201Cenabling decision-makers to consider the impacts of investments [including] water bottling \u2026 bulk water extraction for human consumption [or] water quality and sustainability;\u201D. So hang on a minute. We have a resource management regime in this country that is supposed to mean that any kind of activity complies with environmental sustainability. That\u2019s what the Resource Management Act (RMA) says. Then we\u2019re saying there\u2019s going to be a different test if foreign investment\u2019s involved. Well, that\u2019s very interesting. The suggestion seems to be that somehow the RMA is not enough, and if that\u2019s true, we should be really worried about all the locally owned water bottling and extraction operations. On the other hand, if the RMA is adequate and we are properly managing the environments in New Zealand, why would we care who the investment was from on environmental grounds? So again, needlessly making the law more complex.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt says, \u201C[provide] better recognition for M\u0101ori cultural values, including by taking into account plans to protect or enhance w\u0101hi [tapu], w\u0101hi tapu areas, and M\u0101ori reservations;\u201D. Well, that\u2019s all fine, but the problem is that this bill doesn\u2019t tell anyone how to do that, so there\u2019s going to be a new job interpreting what that means in the context of the Overseas Investment Act. Then it says a new regulation-making power so that at any time, a future Government can, by regulation not by legislation, do what the other bill being passed through the Parliament in urgency does. So those are the things that make it harder. On the plus side, you no longer need Overseas Investment Office (OIO) approval to buy land that\u2019s next to so-called sensitive land. That\u2019s sensible, but what\u2019s being got rid of is so ridiculous, it\u2019s difficult to know why they don\u2019t go further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s a couple of other administrative changes, but none of them make up for the fact that overseas investors are going to have to provide more information to the IRD. Who has ever chosen to invest in a country so they could have more intimate interaction with that country\u2019s tax department?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOverwhelmingly, the additional complexity outweighs any of the administrative easing in this bill. But there\u2019s another factor here, which is change. This bill is a fairly weighty thing\u201432 pages of new legislation\u2014that I\u2019m fairly certain will actually make the Overseas Investment Act longer, and that\u2019s the problem with legislation. Bills are like acorns: they grow. The RMA started off at 400 pages; now it\u2019s 900 pages, and the OIA is going in the same direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo the final reason for opposing this bill is not only do the new complications outweigh the simplifications, but having had four Overseas Investment Act amendment bills in only 2\u00BD years, it is time to stop changing the law and hope that anyone who\u2019s still remotely interested in investing in New Zealand with this regime has some time to catch up. With that, I oppose this bill and I hope it falls under a new Government soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022203703c7a6b54f9f9063994ca499f722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022203703c7a6b54f9f9063994ca499f722\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Well, the Opposition is struggling, really, to find things to oppose in this bill. We know that the National Party will be supporting it to select committee, and I suspect even Mr Seymour, floundering around there looking for things to criticise in it, will actually engage in some robust and constructive discussion at Finance and Expenditure Committee. It may be a change, but I look forward to it anyway. I\u2019m forever the optimist. I mean, an objection on the basis that we\u2019re requiring details of investors to be given to the IRD, really? Does he really think that we ought not require information to be given to the IRD? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6ce23d938844683b6ebbd8aee605925\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Justify requiring more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d859da7b8bd4c5bb2ff5b74bf9f081d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: And Mr Yule needs to read the bill more carefully in terms of the leasehold land. He was quite wrong-headed in his criticisms of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd you know what? I love the criticism that David Parker has been too hard-working in getting this right. We have brought legislation to the House on more than one occasion because, absolutely, in terms of the first bill, we were going to stop foreign investors purchasing residential properties. New Zealand homes for New Zealand families: that was our policy there. We then had a bill which was disrupted by COVID-19, and that is largely what you\u2019re seeing in front of us now. So there are three bills, and the other one is the urgent bill\u2014the bill to stop the vultures of international investment companies coming in and swooping and picking the bones of New Zealand businesses. I absolutely stand behind the hard-working David Parker, who has done more for international trade in 2\u00BD years than that Government did in nine years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is a fantastic bill. It\u2019s easing the way for good investment. It\u2019s stopping poor investment. I support this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4ca98c00f3a455f91915496366060e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca98c00f3a455f91915496366060e0\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (National\u2014Rotorua):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not going to spend too much time at all speaking about the last speaker, Dr Duncan Webb, in this debate\u2014otherwise, why not a sport analogy: when you\u2019re nowhere near the ball, you might as well play the mat. What we\u2019ve just seen him do there is actually attack a speaker who has, in the debate\u2014David Seymour\u2014stood up and actually made very relevant points about the uttermost confusion that we see on the part of the three parties in Government when it comes to foreign direct investment and the role it plays in creating jobs in New Zealand. Rather than an intelligent conversation about that, the poor public, who are only just today really out of lockdown\u2014I hope they\u2019re not watching TV, because they got 2\u00BD minutes from that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe real crying shame of the debate taking place today on this bill is that when this Government has announced a Budget that will mean that every household in New Zealand will be responsible for an extra $80,000 worth of debt\u2014and, indeed, when we look at the off-the-book debt that they\u2019re also creating borrowing for Housing New Zealand and others, it equates to maybe $63,000 for every single person in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222911c431565b4c56860b982b943876fa\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a902913e876431abd51757cbd9e8386\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Sixty-three thousand dollars for every child that\u2019s going to school on Monday of next week, $63,000 for every parent dropping that child at school, and if you pick a home in my electorate of five people, that is a generation or two generations of debt, more than $300,000\u2014more than the affordable houses they said they would deliver and they\u2019ve failed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe reason I say this is because, actually, the first two bills we\u2019re seeing in urgency are not about how to create jobs, they\u2019re not about how to help New Zealanders do better as they deal with the significant consequences of the economic impact of the lockdown from COVID-19, they\u2019re not about how to help them with their health, they\u2019re not about how to support their businesses; they are about telling investors from overseas that they\u2019re either welcome here or they\u2019re not welcome here. So the point here is the first two bills we have in urgency in the biggest-spending Budget the country has ever seen, a Budget that will mean there\u2019ll be $200 billion worth of debt, more than 50 percent of GDP\u2014this Government is rushing through changes to the Overseas Investment Act, and I just think that\u2019s absolutely appalling, because every single New Zealander has sacrificed over the last eight weeks. They\u2019ve done their part, and as they come out of their homes today to go back to their businesses, to open them up, to try and put them back together and make them survive, as they\u2019re hearing about the debt will be incurred on their behalf by this Government\u2014they\u2019re turning on their televisions, and, in urgency, the first bill says it\u2019s actually harder for a foreigner to make a worthwhile investment in New Zealand that will create jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut that first bill actually was an absolute waste of time, because, actually, it\u2019s only there, was it, for 30 days, or 90 days?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221913fc2305a84fb6a637649ad7bd4665\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Mere 10 days\u2014Monday week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fdf39281b9d441bb5044c04760abcc4\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, but my point is it will be 90 days. So for 90 days, the Government has the right to veto an investment from overseas in a business they say is sensitive. Is there anybody in this country that imagines that, actually, an investment that triggers the Overseas Investment Act has ever taken less than 90 days? It\u2019s not possible. The system doesn\u2019t work that quickly, and therefore that was a waste of time, and it\u2019s virtue-signalling on the part of the Government to say they\u2019re protecting businesses in New Zealand, but at the same time the current system would protect it because it is so very slow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAnd now we have another piece of legislation, the second bill in a row under urgency, of the Overseas Investment Act, and actually it says that it\u2019s making it easier to invest by taking away bureaucracy and red tape, but it\u2019s not doing that. If we look at the two pieces of legislation, one makes it harder; they\u2019re saying the other makes it easier. If no one in the country can work out whether the Government believes that foreign direct investment creates jobs or not, how can somebody that we hope to attract to invest in our economy, to invest in the productive parts of our economy\u2014how could they work out whether this Government wants investment or not? I think that\u2019s what the shame is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere was a huge opportunity for this Government today in urgency, because we\u2019re here in the Budget, the biggest-borrowing Budget of the history of this country, to send a real signal to New Zealanders about what they really were going to do to protect jobs, to create jobs, to help businesses get back on their feet, to help them with their debt, to do anything for the tourism sector other than set up a ministerial group, an advisory group, to work out what the Minister should\u2019ve been doing over the last eight weeks and will sometime in the future. They could\u2019ve given more than hope to New Zealanders, but, sadly, they didn\u2019t. They\u2019ve brought this back before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a prediction: there\u2019ll be another bill straight after this one that won\u2019t do anything other than, I don\u2019t know, worry about a few people that may be smuggling a bit of tobacco into the country through the postal service, at the same time they\u2019ve dropped $130 million to help the post office keep delivering letters as they work out what to do, I suppose. My point here is it\u2019s very confusing, their approach in this Budget, as to what they\u2019re trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe final bit\u2014I don\u2019t know, what else would you do in urgency apart from this legislation to send a signal to New Zealanders about how serious they are about getting us back onto our feet? Why not a remuneration bill to give somebody the power to cut salaries for a very small group of New Zealanders? That could\u2019ve been done two weeks ago under urgency in less than an hour if the Prime Minister delivered what she said to New Zealanders when she said she and her colleagues were giving up their salaries, but, no, that didn\u2019t happen. They rushed through a tax bill in two hours, and it was the wrong tax bill. We should be doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269bc19933a18427494faf3fc3f0f0080\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Which would be great in a general debate, but I don\u2019t think that\u2019s in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfdc5b451a934c408f23da02377b28d3\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I guess the point here is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d945714401eb448387e80ab0a6b9184d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: So if you can reference that to something in the bill, that\u2019d be great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d89b18b37943539598fa7b9309941e\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, I guess the point here is that, actually, we are doing this bill, the Overseas Investment Act change, under urgency, and the problem that we have with that is actually it\u2019s not fitting of urgency, and neither are the other things the Government has brought forward. So my point here is that, actually, this is wasting the House\u2019s time, and the reason it\u2019s wasting the House\u2019s time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ffccb7b35a24866808da55220d140e1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter, though, Mr McClay, is that we had the debate on the motion on urgency, and the House agreed to it. So if you could come to the bill, that would be appreciated. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b41e0e22a104173876ddfd804339ab5\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in as far as coming back to the bill is concerned, not all parts of the House agreed to it, and so I\u2019m making the case again that not all parts of the House agreed to this, and the reason we didn\u2019t agree to it is this piece of legislation is not fitting for urgency straight after the biggest-spending Budget in the country. The previous one wasn\u2019t; the next three are not either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EA couple of very important points here: the reason that I suppose the Government feels they have to do this is they need to send a signal that they are taking these things seriously, and in taking them seriously, it\u2019s evident to everybody that they made a mistake. One of the things they\u2019re tidying up, or trying to, with this legislation is looking at exactly the criteria required when farmland is bought, because everybody now knows that it\u2019s extremely difficult to buy farmland in New Zealand unless you want to plant trees on it. And, actually, what that suggests is it\u2019s not about supporting the forestry industry or not; it\u2019s having clear, consistent rules that actually bring the type of investment that we need to New Zealand. So if you are a foreigner who wants to invest in land in New Zealand, you could buy the best dairy farm in the country and you couldn\u2019t milk cows on it, but you could plant trees on it. That\u2019s not an efficient or effective use of investment or that land, and therefore this bill actually doesn\u2019t help that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut I do notice that what it says is that, actually, one of the things it\u2019s clarifying\u2014it wants to give New Zealanders equal opportunity as a foreigner to buy this land, so they\u2019re changing the way you must advertise it. I don\u2019t know about you, but the person in my electorate who\u2019s dropping their child at school on Monday morning and that child will owe $67,000 as a result of the debt probably is not so happy that they\u2019re changing the way this is advertised. I think that\u2019s a ridiculous use of urgency when we should be actually seeing things pushed through this Parliament in urgency that will make a difference to that mother and that child and the business they own and their livelihood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe second thing this is doing is\u2014I refer to the first bill that they went through the first stage of in urgency, because it was only for 90 days, but I see there\u2019s a clause here that says, after the 90 days, if this passes into law, they can re-enact those provisions without coming back to Parliament. So on the one hand, they\u2019re passing legislation under urgency that will give an opportunity for the Government to say no in 90 days and then to say no forevermore using those powers again under this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe problem with this legislation is it does nothing but tinker. It makes no significant change, it is confusing, it\u2019s not going to make New Zealanders better\u2014if anything, it will detract investment, it will make them worse, and we will have fewer jobs here. We should be using the time of this House on things that are urgent, like creating jobs, protecting jobs, and reducing the debt of $60,000 on that poor little girl whose mother will drop her at school on Monday of next week, because that debt will be with her and her children for a very long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c965a5dd0a2a4fcb834df80339b33e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c965a5dd0a2a4fcb834df80339b33e23\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E Why does the National Party want to sell off the birthright of all New Zealanders? Why does the National Party want to put on the international auctioning block the legacy of all New Zealanders? Why do they want to offer to people who do not have the same interests in the post-COVID environment as this Government does? Why do they want to use the COVID economic contagion as a further opportunity to pursue the privatisation of our legacy assets into foreign ownership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThat is exactly the tone and the content from the other side of the House. Now, of course, this bill affirms sensible foreign investment in New Zealand. This bill introduces a host of overdue changes that will simplify the process. The ACT leader talked about weeds growing, and analogised legislation to something akin to an acorn or a weed. This bill has the opposite impact. This bill will strip unnecessarily frustrating impediments from the road standing before foreign investors. It\u2019s going to actually de-weed the statutory process as we bring in sensible blends of foreign direct investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut I say to the other side of the House: we remember vividly all of the big opportunities squandered by them where we let legacy assets in the South Island be hocked off. Not a single word said from that side of the House. Our side arrived and said, as a part of the sovereignty of New Zealand, some things are worth fighting for. Some things are worth taking right into an election, coming out victorious, and passing legislation. This bill represents that. This bill says that, in the post-COVID environment, growing food, creating exports from the primary sector is essential. Therefore, if you are a foreign direct investor hoping to swoop in, for example, like the Tai Poutini West Coast dairy factory, those days are over. No more exploiting transitory distresses, distressing times, and denuding New Zealanders of these legacy assets. By all means, make an application if you are an applicant out there, but have no illusions: where farmland is concerned, and its incredible importance for export-based activity, you will go through a strong test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, if the other side wants to change the law, they have to come to this House and change the law in the future\u2014no writing letters at quarter past 9 in the evening to the Overseas Investment Office (OIO), wink, nudge, and opening up vast swathes of the country and actually causing the next generation a state of despair as they watch the productive sector of New Zealand dribble away, disappear into foreign ownership without any scrutiny. Those days are over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course, I had a small contribution to make to the first phase of OIO reform, and I recall liberalising the OIO. Because certain foreign direct investment is very positive\u2014incredibly important to the manufacturing sector, to the industries that will actually lift up the country out in our provinces and move forward. Now, our very clever colleague Mr David Parker ascertained that forestry and the usufructuary rights associated with forestry rights, associated with forestry, needed to go through a screening process, and two minds of great passion met\u2014namely, his and mine\u2014and we decided that if land was under 1,000 hectares, then it should be allowed to pass through the regime of the OIO. And, if you\u2019re bringing a proposal to expand the size of the New Zealand lung, then that type of investment\u2014subject to a suitable level of scrutiny\u2014was very positive for the provinces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s very sad that members on the other side of the House have exploited that. They\u2019ve manipulated the facts, and they\u2019ve been a tremendously irritating source of misinformation up and down the East Coast and the West Coast. Fortunately, every time I point out to them that when they were the Government in the 1990s, 100,000 hectares of farmland was turned into forestry\u2014that wasn\u2019t this side of the House; that was the grand-uncles of the other side of the House. Then, all of a sudden, we get a mild change, and that land that will probably create a greater level of public good by going into forestry, land consolidation, environmental resilience\u2014that, they now want to attack. Well, who\u2019s actually selling the land? Who\u2019s actually putting the land up for sale? Garden variety Kiwi owners. Do you want us on this side of the House to actually trample upon those property rights of those owners as to whether or not they should be entitled to exercise it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dbe1ee737c040e6a1fc5e3943cef598\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Sounds a bit communist to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0b74b214d8246588cef6f1735702e2f\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s nothing so straight, nothing so recognisable as a capitalist who exploits a crisis to show how real socialism can be exploited to their private profit. Now, we overlook these lapses and inconsistencies in the arguments put by the other side of the House, which is why this bill will engender a great deal of support. It is not akin to some wild, crazy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b176559f54448a8149ee534ed04959\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: $15 billion sold.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed7706b67c141b1a2a5223d8ae5e2aa\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, now we hear from Mr David Bennett over there. On the question of weeds, he would know the famous one in the Waikato, what\u2019s it\u2014the broadleaf flea-brain, or flea-vein, or words to that effect, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220c2baf4aef946a4b1c90d785f4936f6\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Now, that Minister has presided as the Government sold $15 billion worth of assets in his period of time, and then he attacks members on the other side of the House? He should stick to his debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229539e8eba7154ac6b4fddc78c1349299\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: And your point of order is? That\u2019s not a point of order. That is a debating point that members are debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6b9710373fb4d328db05f5eb45050c6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, I do need to correct my contribution. The description of the hairy buttercup is more akin and more apposite for the contribution coming from that member from around Hamilton. However, the House has rediscovered part of its mauri, the liveliness. The Budget has well and truly been acclaimed up and down the country. And without a doubt, Mr David Carter, without a doubt, spoke great truth. He said as this bill goes forward, he won\u2019t be around. You can put money on that, because a host on the other side of the House, as I commend this bill, after 19 September will definitely not be around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002264d185e259744b459fe18a898d287ae8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000564\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022937eb04ab9404e329cd4a01ad9be8d8c\u0022\u003EForests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a7d36ded00745fd913a6e9bf110af03\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00227c01412a5608497e8ffdc6aeeb75d149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c01412a5608497e8ffdc6aeeb75d149\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 5 June 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EI stand to explain to the House why we are proceeding with the forests amendment bill for the regulation of log traders and forestry advisers. This speech will begin by painting a picture of how incredibly important this third-largest export earner is for provincial New Zealand, for the manufacturers of New Zealand, and for the workforce of New Zealand. For far too long, this is an area that has existed with minimal oversight, and we have heard a host of very sad stories about the quality of the advice, the quality of the conduct, as is evidenced by some of the ways in which both advisers and logmongers have behaved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETherefore, to complete the virtuous circle of forestry, this Government has introduced the billion trees kaupapa, dedicating nigh on $500 million over a period of time to achieve the outcome of having planted one billion trees, for a host of purposes. Purpose number one is to expand the size of the nation\u2019s lung and to provide us with an option to manage the transitional costs of climate change. Purpose number two is to invest in biodiversity by ensuring that the trees that are planted under our Government\u2019s programmes are a mix of exotic and native, and that such activities generate positive outcomes in terms of sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EPurpose number three is to have decluttered the overseas investment regime so that those who already own the forestry estate in New Zealand\u2014well over 73 or 74 percent of that estate is already owned by foreign interests. They approached me and requested that we declutter the legislation back in late in 2017, and the outstanding area is to give confidence that the manufacturers, the downstream processors, the domestic sawmillers, the owners of the timber processing sector have greater confidence that they can enjoy ongoing access in a predictable and consistent form to the raw material, so that their businesses can grow, their employees can stay on the job, and we do not see mountains and mountains of raw commodities disappearing overseas without us as a nation creating additional value from so said resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo this bill reflects considerable work out in the community by our officials, but it also shows that when we\u2019re focused on creating a plan for an industry with the leaders of the industry, we can deliver. This bill will go through the airing process at the select committee, and where there are concerns, potential imperfections\u2014hard to imagine\u2014they can at least be addressed by the select committee, and the arguments rehearsed as to whether or not there\u2019s too much forestry in New Zealand, not enough forestry, and whether it\u2019s a reasonable type of investment. All of that can be trotted out at the select committee, and the bill then can come back and we can develop a registration system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, why would you want such a system? Well, in a host of areas, the quality of advice being offered to our investors in the forestry sector has been substandard. My office and a host of other MPs can attest to this. There have been some very sad and egregious cases where dodgy advisers have been allowed to get away with dodgy conduct for far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, some might say it\u2019s the market\u2014it\u2019s the laissez-faire system; don\u2019t interfere with it\u2014but we as the Government have an interest in professionalising and creating a greater level of resilience and robustness into forestry, creating a system that ensures that the logmongers offer the raw material both to Kiwi processors as well as to international buyers. Now, this does not offend any World Trade Organization ruling. I did actually toy with the idea that there should be an export tax. Now, obviously, we wouldn\u2019t head in that direction if it created an impression that not only were we taxing exports but it might invite retaliation. But I say to you that we are going to face up to 300,000 of our young people and our neighbours facing unemployment as we come out of the COVID medical contagion. Many jobs can be created in this forestry sector, but the investors need certainty and confidence that they can gain access.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the point of continuing to plant trees in provincial New Zealand if those trees are not available for manufacturing and processing on a predictable, consistent, and calculable manner? This bill will create that. This bill will enable people to go through a registration process. There will be suitable exemptions, and it also will allow for complaints to be made. It will be run in a very efficient manner. We will not be tolerating excessive levels of bureaucracy, and, as a consequence of having an efficient system, once it\u2019s established, it can actually be delegated outside of the core Crown into another entity. But the main point is that people receiving advice from forest advisers need to know that the advice has integrity and there\u2019s a complaints process if they have been diddled. People that are logmongers must make the material available to both Kiwis and international purchasers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, those international purchasers may or may not have subsidies buried in opaque arrangements overseas. This bill does not deal with that. But this bill makes it absolutely crystal clear to the people who are managing the logmonger business or forestry advisory services that you have to take account of climate change, you have to take account of the needs of domestic processors, you have to take account as to whether or not the land being used would be best suited for forestry. And, after all of that, if the advice is found to be egregiously defective, then there will be a complaints process. But there will be a clear obligation, as a consequence of this bill, for people to have demonstrated that they have made the raw material available to Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no guarantee Kiwis will buy it. There\u2019s no guarantee that Kiwis will want it at all times, but they will have the option. They won\u2019t sit watching large trucks taking all of our valuable raw material offshore while Kiwis become further unemployed and businesses cannot gain certainty in terms of gaining not only calculable but predictable flows of raw material. Now, who can dislike that? In a post-COVID environment, this is going to be absolutely essential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo, to round up, forestry policy, the forestry industry, is now very robust. We have rehabilitated the reputation of that industry. We have put that industry on a far more secure footing. We have used the $500 million - odd over time to regrow both the status and the human capital. We are attracting financial capital into forestry. This regulates, this enables, a process to be in place where grievances can be dealt with, the integrity of advice can be relied upon, and those who are in the business of buying and selling logs can no longer turn their backs on their fellow Kiwis and chase the speculative spot price overseas only to come crying to the \u201CFirst Citizen of the Provinces\u201D when that spot price collapses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re going to achieve not only consistency but there are going to be legal obligations, and those obligations will be spelt out in the form of a practice standard, and those practice standards will impose enforceable duties on the people that are registered through this scheme. If they are not registered and they are circumventing it or trying to use it for money-laundering purposes, and the rumours are rife, they are going to be caught. That is why I commend this bill to the House. It represents fixing a neglected area in the forestry sector, increasing robustness, resilience, integrity, and ensuring that the owners of forestry resources can rely on the advice and that the owners and the workers in processing can have great confidence that the raw material will be made available. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002215b709baf5ae4146851bb51760b0bcee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215b709baf5ae4146851bb51760b0bcee\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call Mr Muller, can I ask the members on the Government side to remove the red boxes, the green boxes\u2014there\u2019s one at the front there. If someone could grab that, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u00228de90b3033604f0ba12740155fbcd457\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228de90b3033604f0ba12740155fbcd457\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak to the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill. What an extraordinary Government priority this is. I mean, with respect, we have had this afternoon a finance Minister speak to this House and say that the Budget deficit for this year is just short of $30 billion. In the same speech, he says that the deficits for the next four years will total $100 billion. And, in a moment of national crisis, he outlines the priorities that his Government will now put forward in urgency in front of this House, and apparently this bill, the regulation of log traders and advisers, is the third-most important bill facing this country in our time of national crisis. Well, get a grip. How on earth, Mr Jones, did you manage to pull that swiftie? Even Eugenie Sage can\u2019t look at you. Mind you, she can\u2019t anyway, but she particularly can\u2019t now. What an extraordinary bill we\u2019ve been served up. So, ladies and gentlemen at home, who I know will be wondering, after the two performances from my colleague across the other side, whether we have descended into Shakespearian farce; we haven\u2019t. The National Party is here to put some rigour back into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo what does this incredibly urgent bill, as we look at a sea of $100 billion worth of deficits in four years\u2014what does this do? It establishes a registration system for log traders and farm advisers. It allows the Ministry for Primary Production to set up a regulatory body. It sets up a registration process. It sets up a power to obtain information. It defines\u2014Mr Jones would have spent years doing this\u2014a log trader. That\u2019s very important! It requires them to adhere to forestry practice standards. It specifies the application form\u2014specifies the application form! That\u2019s two pages. I\u2019m glad Eugenie Sage is looking down again. It outlines the conditions of registration that can be imposed. It has a section on cost recovery. It sets up a regulation-making power for registration complaints and disputes, fees and charges and levies, and then the rules themselves. I mean, this is quite unbelievable that this Government has put this in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EAnd what is interesting is that the speech the Minister gave was, as he has always given, a speech that is focused on his particular view that the sector is broken, that it\u2019s inappropriate to respond to export market prices, that somehow the role of Government is to get in the middle of it and turn the market upside down and pick winners\u2014that that is the best model\u2014and he talks about how that\u2019s going to get turned on its head by this bill. Of course, none of that detail is in the bill, Mr Jones. All it does is set up a framework, and what you\u2019re doing is signalling to all the foresters that, actually, this is where you want it to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWell, what\u2019s fascinating about this is that Mr Jones says this has been out in the field for a number of years, that he\u2019s had close conversations with the forestry sector. Well, they haven\u2019t seen it. In fact, they\u2019re only going to get briefed on it tomorrow. And here he stands, saying that this is an urgent debate, an urgent priority, for something that hasn\u2019t been seen by the sector\u2014hasn\u2019t sat down with the forest owners, hasn\u2019t sat down with the contractors or the small-forest owners. He actually hasn\u2019t sat with them and said, \u201CThis is what I would like to do in your sector.\u201D And not only that; he has the audacity to come and say that all this now can be discussed, debated at a select committee, and reported back in three weeks. Well, that is arrogance in the extreme, and we are seeing yet again the fusion between a man with the particular view on a model\u2014he wants to see an economic model that he controls rather than the free market, he has a view that it\u2019s his way or the highway, and he creates this impression that somehow this has been worked through with the sector when it hasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThen the final ignominy, which of course is making my counterpart look down at the floor, is that he stands up here and says that this is the appropriate purview of the Environment Committee. Goodness me! Forestry, agriculture\u2014Mr Jones, they\u2019re the same industry. There is no reason for this to go to the Environment Committee. I mean, the Primary Production Committee, for a start, is superbly chaired. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a better chair that we\u2019ve ever seen in primary production. To be fair, there\u2019s some reasonable contributions from the other side. Every now and then Kiri Allan gives us the impression that, you know, she\u2019s on the same\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e93456eda8420da571c1ed476e09f0\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s one of the smart ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a4e79ea45fe436cae5238686f5e5182\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, one of the smart ones. Future leader there, probably. Hey, this really, from our perspective, is quite surprising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ENow, of course, the question is: do we support it through to first reading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbfa6538fea24feba613d112d2b99b98\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: Course you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e332f12e8fc4999ab70ea7b6fc99486\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: And, from our perspective\u2014a close-run thing\u2014the reason we are supporting it through to the first reading is because, to all those forest owners watching, to all those contractors, to all those small-forest lot owners, when you are looking at this, at least you know that we will be able to facilitate with you a select committee process where your voice will be heard. He didn\u2019t even want a select committee process; he wanted it in urgency, but we have at least an opportunity where the National Party will be able to hear your perspective. Now, it won\u2019t be the Primary Production Committee; it will be the Environment Committee. It will be Scott Simpson. But you\u2019ll get a good hearing, and you\u2019ll get a National Party that will ask the right questions and expose what actually sits behind this, which is another Shane Jones crusade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e51751aa7244e1aa51b46c2b2d1d20b\u0022\u003EKiritapu Allan\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the economy, it\u2019s jobs, and it\u2019s regional provincial growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293df010681e34b46822915a284de1fa1\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll get your turn\u2014you\u2019ll get your turn, Kiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003ESo I just want to conclude by saying: for all those watching, who are no doubt leaning into the television, wanting to say, \u201CWhat, at our moment of national crisis, is the most important thing that the Government is focused on?\u201D\u2014half past nine, a few hours after the worst Budget, in terms of financial position, that we\u2019ve ever seen in our lifetime\u2014be assured that this Government\u2019s view that the third-most important piece of legislation that should be prioritised above anything else is the registration of those who export logs and those who provide advice to those who grow trees. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee48ca26dcba4ac6b4da9ca658cb302f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee48ca26dcba4ac6b4da9ca658cb302f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, look, thank you very much, and I welcome the opportunity to speak after Todd Muller, the last speaker. There\u2019s a saying \u201CBe careful what you ask for\u201D, and that member\u2019s asking to be Leader of the Opposition. Indeed, I predict that he will get there, and he will stay there for a hell of a long time, because, if that\u2019s an example of how he and the National Party, as the primary industries spokesperson for the Opposition and the National Party, completely discredits the third-largest export earner for this country, and an industry that he is supposed to be advocating for, I\u2019m ashamed\u2014I\u2019m ashamed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf ever there\u2019s a difference between what this side of the House, this coalition Government, advocates for, and it\u2019s for forestry\u2014I congratulate my colleague, the New Zealand First member the Hon Shane Jones, because what he did was finally set up Te Uru R\u0101kau, a ministry for forestry. I was in this House when Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith proclaimed huge savings\u2014if I can remember, it was $4 million a year\u2014to merge agriculture and forestry. He thought of all the efficiencies, and what that did was that forestry got lost from that time onwards. It got absolutely ignored, and so this coalition Government came in and set up Te Uru R\u0101kau to advocate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe other difference between a party that claims to advocate for the primary sector and the forestry sector, and a Government that works for them is that we are advocating for foresters, for producers, for manufacturers, and for the good people who work in those industries, and that party advocates for traders. They advocate for traders\u2014that\u2019s what John Key did\u2014and this party, the National Party in Opposition, continues to advocate for traders over the people who produce the wealth, because they believe that, actually, the path to prosperity is clipping the ticket. What this piece of legislation does\u2014just as last time in Government, we regulated real estate agents, other friends of the National Party, people who were not always committed to ethical practice and who needed proper regulation to ensure that their customers got a fair deal. Well, that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing now for the third-largest export sector in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EGood, well-meaning, honest Kiwis who seek advice and invest, often, their life-savings for some kind of superannuation scheme invest it in the forestry sector, hoping that, in 30 years\u2019 time, or thereabouts, they will have proper, respectable, reasonable returns on their life\u2019s work and their investment. Well, they go to people\u2014because they don\u2019t know a lot about forestry\u2014and they get advice on how they should invest, and sometimes that advice is not always good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIndeed, I\u2019ll quote a tradesperson in my electorate, who came to me saying that they\u2019d had advice. He has a successful business with his wife and employs a number of people. They had invested in forestry, and they\u2019d sought advice on the emissions trading scheme and how that might affect the price of carbon and what they should do. They\u2019d been advised that they could seek annual income from their forest plantings at a carbon rate\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure what it was\u2014and that that was the best way forward and the most secure way for them over a 30-year period. Then, what they had not been told was that at harvest time, of course, they were liable for the carbon credits, and so this person was asking me what could be done. Well, I was tempted to say that Mr Jones and this Government are doing something about it, because the traders, who are the mates of the National Party, will just say what they like, do what they like, and clip the ticket, and good honest Kiwi investors lose out because of that bad advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re going to have some ethical practices. We\u2019re going to have some standards put in place. We\u2019re going to ensure that people are fit and proper to offer advice, just as we have done for financial advisers and just as we had to regulate for real estate agents, because if we don\u2019t, then, in fact, we will have too many hard-working Kiwis\u2014the people that the National Party say they advocate for. They don\u2019t; they advocate for the traders, over all else. We want to advocate for good honest Kiwis\u2014the people who have the forests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe emerging reality\u2014and I guess the House has heard before of the high level of foreign ownership here now across the forest sector, but the profile of forest owners and the supply of wood, moving forward, is changing. It is changing quite rapidly, and I have to acknowledge Hamish Levack. He\u2019s been a local person advocating for forestry for a long, long time, and he came to this House and was talking to a number of MPs, myself included, about what was the challenge with the wall of wood, the changing profile of forest owners, and how were we going to offer security to all those people who have invested hundreds of millions\u2014or, in fact, billions\u2014of dollars in processing across this country. How are we going to protect their supply of wood and, indeed, protect the small - wood lot owners when it comes to selling their trees? His proposal was, in fact, a cooperative. I support cooperatives, and I think, eventually, enough of those small-forest owners might work out the wisdom of coming together in some kind of supply cooperative that gives guaranteed volume to the manufacturers and the processors and gives them a fair return for their 30 years of investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn the meantime\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8887efd64bc4e4899e63ff8370e5658\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they can do it now\u2014they can do it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1521fd326e848aa844f9be485d4196a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: They can do it now\u2014of course they can do it now. But the problem is that many of those small-forest owners go and seek advice. So why would a forest adviser tell them to go into a cooperative when there\u2019s another old saying that says \u201CDivide and rule\u201D? If you can just feed enough information to people and make it look credible, sometimes you can carry them along. What this does is ensure that the people providing the advice\u2014as I say, as we do across other parts of the economy\u2014are fit and proper. This piece of legislation in a laissez-faire world, where there was fair, open trade and people had all the information, might not be necessary. The realities of this world are that it\u2019s not always like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EToday, we passed a Budget, or the Minister of Finance did, with the Government, that was about jobs, and the previous speaker, the so-called champion for the primary industries in the National Party\u2014the so-called champion for the primary industries in the National Party\u2014got up and said, \u201CWhat connection has a piece of forestry legislation to do with the Budget?\u201D Well, let me explain it really carefully to you: this industry is the third-biggest earner of export revenue in this country, and that is important when it comes to creating wealth and building our economy again. Don\u2019t you get that? Don\u2019t you understand that, over there? No, I don\u2019t think they do. You can\u2019t just create wealth out of trading. You can\u2019t just create wealth out of trading; you\u2019ve got to have people who commit real money to real production and create real things and export it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I say that the 15,000, or thereabouts, of small-forest owners need a fair go. They need people who are going to give them fair and honest advice, and this registration process will do that. We also need to know that the people who have invested billions in manufacturing the logs that we cut down into more valuable products\u2014we have to know that they get a fair chance of getting at wood supply. This is why we want traders who are honest, who commit to contracts, and who will supply the logs, because I get sick and tired of looking from the 19th floor of Bowen House down on to a wharf full of logs that constantly flow out of this country, when we need jobs in this country now. We need jobs, and in the third-biggest sector for export earnings\u2014I have to say, why not start at forestry? Why not start with the job opportunities in forestry? So this Government is moving on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo, to the previous speaker, who could not understand why we would have a piece of forestry legislation in the House on the same day as the Budget: just go and look at the export revenue figures\u2014go and understand what responsibility you have in your role as spokesperson for the primary industries, because, if you can\u2019t do that job properly, you certainly won\u2019t do the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s job very well, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to stand in this House and support this piece of legislation to support good honest Kiwis in one of the most important industries in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022 data-id=\u002277d2719c32094928bc67e0ec9f12fff9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277d2719c32094928bc67e0ec9f12fff9\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Here we are discussing the registration of advisers and log purchasers\u2014those who might want to purchase a log. That is the priority for this Government at this time on Budget day in urgency. I mean, I thought we had urgency for really important things; things that had to be done in a timely manner to kickstart a process because it was urgent. This does not qualify for any reason, to be urgent. This does not actually create any new jobs. We\u2019re talking about a large industry. This is going to see those levels of exports that we\u2019ve talked about being so important decline\u2014the value of those exports will be declining because of the costs that are layered by this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThere is no need for this legislation. This legislation is telling the industry that they\u2019re idiots. This piece of legislation is telling the associations in the forestry sector that they don\u2019t know how to conduct their own business. This piece of legislation is telling small, medium size, and large-forest owners that they\u2019re fools and that they are not capable of seeking advice from reputable advisers, taking that advice, and managing their forests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThis sector has been around for a very, very long time. The wall of wood that we are seeing now was planted in the 1990s\u2014and, of course, we had a thriving forestry sector before that. These syndicates that are small-forest owners have been around a long time. They\u2019ve trusted, they\u2019ve had legal advice, they\u2019ve had financial advice at the time, knowing the risks, aware of the commodity-based product that is a log\u2014that is a log. The log is always going to be subject to commodity pricing because that\u2019s what it is. It\u2019s like orange juice. It\u2019s like milk powder. It\u2019s like wool. It\u2019s a commodity. The price of it rises and falls with demand and supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re going to register and direct logs, a commodity, into a processing facility because of the tax that Mr Jones talks about, we are in big, big trouble. If we start taxing our exports, that is only going to put our price of that commodity up to the international purchaser, and that international purchaser will go elsewhere. We will see less exports when Mr Jones introduces\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef14387ebdba47c08bfced2753280988\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Jobs, jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b526e9183544e32a5e01b632030244c\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014his export tax. He justifies it by saying there will be jobs as a result. He\u2019s suggesting that we need more wood processing in New Zealand. Well, there\u2019s a list of associations in New Zealand that, for some reason, Mr Jones doesn\u2019t think talk to each other. There\u2019s the New Zealand Farm Forestry Association: 27 branches around the country, been around for 50 years\u2014that\u2019s the New Zealand Farm Forestry Association. There\u2019s the Forest Owners Association. There\u2019s the Wood Council of New Zealand. There\u2019s the Wood Processors and Manufacturers Association. Apparently, these guys are all idiots; they don\u2019t really know how to run their business! They\u2019re being told to work closer together\u2014\u201DOtherwise we\u2019ll tax you.\u201D There\u2019s the Forest Industry Contractors Association, and there\u2019s the New Zealand Timber Industry Federation. There are a lot of smart people out there. They\u2019ve been in the business. They know what they\u2019re doing. They\u2019re not interested in having a layer of compliance, an obligation, to restrict their markets by being forced to put their logs in this processing factory or that factory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThose processors are not asking for subsidies from the Government. They\u2019re not asking for what Mr Jones is suggesting. They\u2019re not asking for an export tax; that\u2019s all his idea, and it\u2019s ludicrous. Let\u2019s put it on wool, shall we? To force the sheep growers to process wool in New Zealand\u2014well, that\u2019s a ridiculous suggestion. Why don\u2019t we put it on milk powder? That\u2019s a commodity. Why don\u2019t we put a tax on milk powder to stop people delivering it as a raw commodity into the offshore market? Why don\u2019t we tax it so that we can process it into cheese and yoghurt in New Zealand? Why don\u2019t we do that? What a ridiculous idea that would be. And so it is with forestry. It is exactly the same argument. Taxing an export will only incentivise people to stay away from it. The cost will be too high, and they\u2019ll walk away. Margins will be eroded, jobs will be lost, and the economy goes down the toilet as a result of the policy that Mr Jones is suggesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThere is no need for this registration\u2014registration for what? I mean, what are we going to do, register\u2014OK, we\u2019ve got financial advisers that are registered and real estate agents that are registered; that\u2019s been mentioned tonight. Why don\u2019t we register car salesmen? Why don\u2019t we do that to make sure that they\u2019re all satisfactory and of good character. Why don\u2019t we do that? I\u2019ll tell you what: why don\u2019t we have a gun register, see if that works? Oh, no, that\u2019s right\u2014they\u2019ve already tried that idea and that\u2019s not going to work, either. Registration is a layer of cost that is totally unnecessary. It\u2019s patronising to the industry. The industry do not and have not asked for this. They do not need it. The processors do not ask for it. The logging sector is not asking for it. The small foresters are not asking for it. And, in fact, the reasoning in this bill\u2014that the small foresters will account for a larger proportion of logs coming to the market\u2014is not correct. I\u2019ve seen contradictory numbers to say that those small operators who planted in the 1990s are harvesting now and will not be such a large influence in 10 years, as the document in the bill suggests. So that\u2019s the registering of the advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EWhy on earth do we have to register someone who is buying something? Why do we have to register a purchaser of a log? So the purchaser who will process or export\u2014well, you can\u2019t do much else than either process or export. So every purchaser of a log has to be registered. Why logs and not, I don\u2019t know, anything? Cars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a66c03f53a4a2b8e3f147dc5c48650\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60dc877bade40e495a5133f0cda31a7\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no this is about the purchasing side\u2014this is about the purchasing; registration of the purchaser. I\u2019ve spoken about the registration of the adviser; this is the ridiculous idea of registering someone who wants to buy something. I don\u2019t even need to say any more, it\u2019s such a ridiculous idea. Why would you want to or need to register someone who\u2019s going to buy a piece of wood down at Mitre 10? Buy a log, buy a sheep, buy a cow; why don\u2019t we register everyone who wants to buy something? This is a scary, lefty, sort of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ceaddfe464841908db1c0656565010e\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s communist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff503561d9f64b2aa01154c0f6ad943f\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014communist sort of policy that\u2019s creeping in. We\u2019re suggesting export taxes. This bill is a crazy prelude to something that seems to be coming our way, which is even more scary than this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003EThis is not an urgent piece of legislation; it\u2019s not even useful legislation. It\u2019s totally redundant legislation, and it is unwanted legislation. However, we will support it to the select committee to allow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374a13c46055444e8aa6fb90a1dcd84e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e6b7aaa-8157-4d5e-9940-1bdbcd61ae95\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b2f2ae6e6f04af9949a0e952a1a5417\u0022\u003EALASTAIR SCOTT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ll hear it from the people. We will hear it from the people, we will hear it from the advisers, we will hear it from the associations, and we will hear it from the processors that this is not a good piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2dca64a79b5442d930e461dcdb875ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2dca64a79b5442d930e461dcdb875ee\u0022\u003ERINO TIRIKATENE (Labour\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m delighted to speak in support of this bill. As we are entering a very challenging post-COVID environment, we need to have robust legislation in place to support our industries and strengthen our third-most important export industry\u2014the forestry industry: log, wood products. Can I congratulate our Minister of Forestry, the \u201CFirst Citizen of the Provinces\u201D, the Hon Shane Jones, son of the North, T\u0101ne M\u0101huta-esque in his towering figure in this Parliament in support of his beloved forest industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EThis is a very, very welcome piece of legislation, and I\u2019m surprised that the member that\u2019s just resumed his seat, Alastair Scott\u2014I\u2019m glad that the National Party, despite all their moans and groans, are supporting this bill at its first reading. I know the member from the Wairarapa. I\u2019m sure those great pioneers of investment forestry Charles Wallis and Steve Wilton, those great persons from over the Wairarapa, would have been whispering to him that, yes, we should get behind and support this bill. So this is a welcome piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EIt is needed because the fact of the matter is there are unscrupulous, dodgy traders that are operating in the forestry sector. They are distorting the market, and they are, basically, fooling a lot of the farm forest owners and they are denying the supply chain of an important harvest of crop. So this bill is all about ensuring there\u2019s a consistency in the supply chain. Yes, the top dollar will be achieved in terms of the export markets, but this approach, this registration of the traders and of the advisers, is to ensure that there is an adequate supply that is available to the local processors, local sawmillers, and the important jobs that those small businesses and those larger businesses have, particularly in our provinces. So this is a very welcome piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003EI also want to congratulate our Minister for primary industries, because the Ministry for Primary Industries, Te Uru R\u0101kau\u2014they play a very important role in this legislation as the forestry authority, and they will be crafting and ensuring that the registration requirements will be in place and all the detail will be set out in regulations, which will be forthcoming as well, in discussions with the industry. And this has actually been requested by the industry. The industry actually have been engaged, have been working with the Government officials, and this has very wide support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s very important that we put this in place. It is about jobs. It is about ensuring consistency of supply, availability, to ensure that we have those sawmillers, those wood remanufacturers, those processors\u2014they need to have that supply of wood, not denied that supply by a dodgy trader from South Asia, or wherever, who can come up with a price on the back of a cigarette pack. Those sorts of traders are not welcome in our industry. They offer no value, they have no investment, and they demean and they devalue and they actually deter investment coming into our industry. That\u2019s why it\u2019s important that we have that assurance across the industry, across especially the emerging sector of farm foresters and private, smaller landholding, smaller harvestable crop owners. It\u2019s very important that they have certainty that the advisers that they will be seeking and the contractors and the ultimate sale of their logs\u2014yes, they will be able to achieve a good price, but it will be benchmarked and it will ensure that a relevant portion is available to support our local industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281825190-fd5d-4ed0-bb80-f12f3c93e653\u0022\u003ESo, with that, I once again want to congratulate the Minister of Forestry. This is a much-needed piece of legislation, and I\u2019m really looking forward\u2014I\u2019m saddened that it\u2019s not coming to the Primary Production Committee. We were all prepared for this particular bill, but I\u2019m sure that the Environment Committee will be giving it due consideration as well. So, with that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002201fb175c64984bbaad1f9de0f0292637\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201fb175c64984bbaad1f9de0f0292637\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to take a little speech to start off with this, because this shows the idiocy of the New Zealand First economic plan. They are nationalising forestry and telling people how they have to sell their products. It is all because they want to see those products being processed in New Zealand. The reality is they are not processed in New Zealand, because of the requirements that that Government puts on industry, the costs it puts on industry, and the environmental costs that don\u2019t make it profitable to do it here. The most profitable use of those logs is to send them overseas, just like our milk powder\u2014the most profitable use is to send it overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThey are trying to nationalise a market. That is what they are trying to do, and it will not work. It will create inefficiencies in the forestry market. It will create a sense of inefficient investment, and it will hurt forestry long term. Forestry needs to be able to make commercial decisions as a business and not have Shane Jones tell them who they should sell their product to. He does not make the right decisions. He has not got that power. It is up for business people and planters to do that, not for Shane Jones to dictate what happens to their products. That is the nationalisation process that the New Zealand First Party and Labour Party and Green Party stand for, and it will not work, and it is a very good indication to the public of New Zealand. Do not let these guys run this country. They will destroy our economy. They will destroy our business base, because they will put inefficiency into business. They will make businesses make decisions to actually fulfil a Minister\u2019s whims rather than making profit and actually delivering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220acd638d6a574419a4ca74901dc6d601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220acd638d6a574419a4ca74901dc6d601\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but it\u2019s come time for me to leave the Chair for the evening. The House will resume at 9\u00A0a.m. tomorrow morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Friday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020051423d6ad3652234fc1887fac9d214abcba000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f09bbd45fa544beb39523fbee2e2e80\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 14 MAY 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3e2f0c7c05a445b960236f1dad2651f\u0022\u003E(continued on Friday, 15 May 2020)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b368c6ffe5b9445486aa1ce7b00c6c7e\u0022\u003EForests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022504ef074153f4cdaa78262847254db00\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00222c014b48fe5541e69b0659476b39a46d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c014b48fe5541e69b0659476b39a46d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Good morning, everybody. This bill, when we look at it, doesn\u2019t actually look like there\u2019s much to it. We\u2019re dealing with a registration process for those that are trading in logs and forestry advisers. On the face of it, that doesn\u2019t look like it means a hell of a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EBut when you look at the speeches that you get from the Minister that introduced the bill, the Hon Shane Jones, he made it very clear that this bill wasn\u2019t just about a register. That\u2019s a nice thing to have and a part of it, but it\u2019s all about dictating to business what they can do with their product. It\u2019s all about the New Zealand First Party believing they are better business people than the people that actually plant these forests. It\u2019s actually about the New Zealand First Party believing they know more than what the market knows. [Interruption] Now, I know their leader is infallible. I know their leader walks on water in their party, and I know they all go, \u201COur Dear Leader\u201D when he talks, but the reality is he does not know what the markets are going to do. He cannot tell what\u2019s going to happen in the future. He will not know exactly what\u2019s going to happen there. He cannot dictate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e70fc951b147ac80f50c022b6d08ab\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: At least they\u2019ve got a leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022467f1bea57c74b5da44a9bd7833f7a13\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: And then we\u2019ve got the other member over there from the Labour Party, and I\u2019ll come to your brother-in-law or whatever he was and his speech soon. But we get to the New Zealand First Party and what they were saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow, the New Zealand First Party knows better than business\u2014we know that! These are the smart entrepreneurs of the world that have never made a dollar in anyone\u2019s life. They\u2019ve sat in this place their whole life, sucking off the teat of the taxpayer. None of them have ever made a dollar, but they can come in here and they can tell us exactly how it all works. They know better\u2014of course they know better, because they\u2019re run by their \u201CDear Leader\u201D and their \u201CDear Leader\u201D knows everything. So we just have to follow their \u201CDear Leader\u201D and his great economic advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen their great economic advice already in the forestry industry. These are the guys that went around the country saying, \u201CNo more foreign investment. We will stop foreign investment.\u201D Fifteen billion dollars has been sold to foreigners under this Government\u2014to January this year. They have sold $15 billion to overseas investors. In 2\u00BD years, they sold $15 billion. In Hamilton, they\u2019re selling an $800 million ultrafast fibre company to overseas interests, and they will let that go through. And this is the party that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967d14adcf51465f86783c203a03e41e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bennett, you\u2019re three minutes into your speech and it would really good if you could link your comments to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d3cbf53bfc4665a05ff88775a2ebbe\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m getting there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229040cae3189f4abe92b2226bb1de585b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, three minutes is ample time to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ba1c7bc1e3540f69a12431db2b906b2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: You need a build-up when you\u2019re dealing with New Zealand First, because you\u2019ve got to build up their party and their leader before you actually take them down and show the reality of their fallacies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First went around the country telling us, \u201CWe wouldn\u2019t sell anything.\u201D Now they\u2019re selling stuff, right? We know that. And they put this great bill in that would stop foreign ownership of land. That was the great idea. But then they realised that they wanted to plant a billion trees, so they had to give an exemption to foreigners to come in and buy land to plant trees. Now, that was the first start of New Zealand First\u2019s attempt to dictate to the forestry industry. And that went really well! You\u2019ve got farmers all over the country that are seeing prime bits of land now being sold to overseas interests to be taken out of more productive uses and to be put in forestry. That was the economic genius that we got from New Zealand First in the first instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow they want to come in with the second part of their economic genius argument for the forestry industry, and that\u2019s to tell forest owners who they have to sell their logs to. Now, this is going to be simply as successful as the last piece of economic genius we had from that party around the forestry industry. First of all, who are they going to sell it to? Most of the log processors are going under in some cases. You know, it\u2019s hard work, because the Government is putting such high restrictions on them. They\u2019re making them have to pay such high rates. They\u2019re making the environmental aspect of their business so difficult to operate in, and yet they are telling forest owners, \u201CYou have to sell to them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo what they\u2019re actually telling the forest owners is, \u201CDo not take the market price. Do not take the best price available for your product. Take a lower price that will subsidise New Zealand manufacturing.\u201D That\u2019s, effectively, what New Zealand First wants. So not only are they going to cripple the decision making of those with land and forestry; they\u2019re going to cripple the decision making of those in the business of processing, because we will get all these inefficient processes that will pop up and will be under Government subsidy, effectively, from a New Zealand First point of view. This is nationalisation of the forestry industry by stealth. We know they wanted to do it in other industries, but they didn\u2019t have the guts to do it. And now they\u2019re doing it in a de facto way in forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe forestry industry is our third biggest exporter in the agricultural productive sector, and the Minister said that quite rightly. But what they\u2019re doing to that industry is they\u2019re constraining it. They\u2019re going to make it inefficient. They\u2019re going to make that industry make the wrong commercial decisions, and if you\u2019re in any other industry, that gives you an example of what they want to do to you. So they won\u2019t want milk powder being sold overseas. They won\u2019t want kiwifruit just to be packaged and sold. No, you\u2019ve got to cut that all up into little slices and have a little sticker on it saying \u201CNew Zealand First made you do this, and you lost money on it, but it\u2019s for the best interests of our \u2018Dear Leader\u2019.\u201D They\u2019ll make you have to manufacture all these products that won\u2019t sell in the international market, that will be inefficient and not in the best interests of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThere is a reason the New Zealand primary sector is the best in the world, and the reason is because we are the most efficient and market-led in the world. If the price of beef is bad, we have to stick it. If the price of milk is good, we get the reward. If the price of logs is going to be manufactured into a certain price because of our \u201CDear Leader\u2019s\u201D decision making, that will mean an inefficient industry. And the history of the world is littered with Governments that have tried to indicate what an industry should do or shouldn\u2019t do, and they have all failed\u2014they have all failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e7a5abca9644dd1a7ed83fd84dc1127\u0022\u003EHon Ron Mark\u003C/span\u003E: Name one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247decb46ea774c54afd55591014e1b44\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Name one\u2014New Zealand First wants us to name one. OK, car manufacturing. We used to do car manufacturing here. We used to subsidise the guts out of it. And how did that go on? It went under. Even the Australians tried it. It went under as well. You know, the Government made it subsidised because they looked at the price of cars. You couldn\u2019t import cars and have a competitive market. So the Government changed that, and it does that all the time. So there, Mr Ron Mark. But before I finish, I\u2019ve got one little comment from Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s brother-in-law. He said we can\u2019t create wealth out of trading. Well, get real. The whole world is about trading. The primary sector is about trading. We need to trade in a fair market that doesn\u2019t have rules set by \u201COur Dear Leader\u201D, who has never made a dollar in his life, and has said in this place and told other people how great he is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022a443bd81c8d54f8999c8da2d2c820acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a443bd81c8d54f8999c8da2d2c820acb\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member from Hamilton East should do well to actually look after the things that happen in Hamilton East, and forestry isn\u2019t one of them. If you want conversations around forestry, what you should do is talk to members of this House who actually have electorates that are covered in forests\u2014that\u2019s right. The member should do well to actually listen to the industry, because this is something that many players have been calling for for quite some time. What he\u2019s saying is completely out of step with the people back home that I talk to that are calling for more domestic processing of our logs. So when he says that we don\u2019t want it, he\u2019s wrong, and the member would do well to actually talk to some people that know something about it, because I\u2019m pretty sure in Hamilton East they haven\u2019t got a big focus on forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EIn the Waiariki electorate, we are born from the trees. We are people that were absolutely\u2014my grandfather, actually, was one of the workers at the Waip\u0101 sawmill. We know forests. We know forests really well. So when people talk about the regulation of log buyers and forestry advisers, they see it as a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis is about something that has been a long time coming. To be able to create Te Uru R\u0101kau, as this Government has done; to be able to put a focus on forestry, like we haven\u2019t, as a country, done for quite some time, is truly significant. To have big ambitious goals to plant a billion trees is absolutely what this country needs and what we need to be able to do to address our goals when it comes to climate change, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis bill is going to strengthen the integrity of our forestry supply chain, and that can only be a good thing. When it comes to forestry, of course, we\u2019ve seen that there have been logs flowing offshore for quite some time, and we\u2019ve got to make sure that when we do that, we make sure that we take into account the interests of New Zealanders first. When you come to a place like Rotorua, which is built from the forest, we are reliant on our forestry industry\u2014we\u2019re reliant on the strength of our forestry industry. We haven\u2019t scratched the potential of exactly what our wood, our timber, can do for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo this is one part\u2014this bill is one part in a major plan to be able to strengthen our forestry sector here in New Zealand, and I\u2019ve got nothing but support for it. So I recommend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1a2afc876d04e669544801a8d3c8e4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1a2afc876d04e669544801a8d3c8e4a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f9740a8bb6647d68a95efc7ad667b26\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022635d95bab5e4447d962f15bb00ef9b8a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the motion be agreed to. I\u2019m sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b45e27fcfa4b3d8d53b921c93c8959\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Standing Orders quite clearly state that a member can seek a call until the time you\u2019ve finished putting the question. You were still using those words when she sought the call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c646d011c27d49f8901feec9cedc2ed2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I want to encourage all members to be vigilant when members before them take their seats and I look around the Chamber and no one is seeking the call\u2014I have to start the question. OK. So will someone seek the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0af1db692b34f6789f04f236c6e3b50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0af1db692b34f6789f04f236c6e3b50\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am very delighted to be given the opportunity to take a call on this Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill. I want to reflect, before I get into the substance of the bill, that we\u2019re sitting here today in Budget day urgency\u2014because in this House it\u2019s still Budget day\u2014in the middle of the biggest economic crisis this country will see, I suspect, in any of our lifetimes. We\u2019re sitting here on the day that the finance Minister told us he needed to borrow another $140 billion to get us through because of the scale of this tragedy. Yet the bill that he brings to the House for us to debate, in Budget urgency, is for the State to dictate to foresters what they can do, who they can sell to, and how to run their businesses. That, apparently, is such a critical part of the Government\u2019s recovery plan from COVID that it had to be rushed up the Order Paper, rushed into a select committee with barely any time for the industry\u2014and, in fact, I was appalled to learn that the industry themselves and the Forest Owners Association had no idea of this bill until we sent it to them. That speaks volumes about the respect and professionalism of this Government in the way they treat business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn fact, the speaker who spoke just before me\u2014and if I was a little amazed when he concluded his speech, it was because I couldn\u2019t quite believe that Mr Tamati Coffey stood there and had the audacity to say, \u201CWe know what\u2019s best for forest owners. We know what foresters need. You should all be quiet because we know best.\u201D That is probably the most accurate and honest self-reflection on the way the Labour Party views business, and that exact ethos is represented in the bill in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn the bill in front of us, you have clauses that allow the Government to dictate to foresters what can be in their supply contracts. That is pretty chilling stuff. Again, if you reflect back on the context that we\u2019re sitting in, putting this through under Budget urgency is all part of the Government\u2019s\u2014well, part of the Government\u2019s recovery plan; as far as I can see, it is the Government\u2019s recovery plan. That should be chilling, because that tells us that this Government is going to pin its recovery hopes on a view that Government knows best and Government will be telling every business up and down this country how to operate and how to come through this. The last thing we need is for this Government to be dictating to the people who actually get up every morning, invest their money, and put their own assets on the line to create jobs and create the tax revenue that pays for every member of this House, every member on the Government benches\u2014for those members to sit in this Chamber and have the arrogance and the audacity to say, \u201CWe know what\u2019s best for these industries and we will tell them what\u2019s in their contracts. We will tell them who they can sell to, and, by the way, our idea of an economic recovery strategy is to pile a whole lot more cost and compliance on to business.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ELet me give the Government a bit of economic advice for free. I don\u2019t say this as a member of Parliament; I say this as someone who has run many businesses, employed many people, and actually done what so few of the Government Ministers have done, and that is I have been in the private sector. Let me give you a piece of advice for free: you don\u2019t help any business by more cost, more compliance, more red tape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ENow, I know that\u2019s pretty much the only tool in the Labour Party tool kit: Government will take over, Government will dictate, and we will have more bureaucrats telling businesses what to do. But I tell you, it does not work. If you don\u2019t believe me, you can read any economic history text. You can look at any example in the world where Government has thought that it taking charge of businesses and sectors is a good step forward. It isn\u2019t. It will fail and it will hurt the very people that this Government pretends to care about. They\u2019re very good at standing up and talking about caring and compassion and kindness. You don\u2019t help anybody, I say to the Government members, when you destroy their businesses, you tie them up in procedure and cost and regulation, and you start creating structures that dictate how they can operate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe heard from the speaker before last, David Bennett, who made the excellent point that our primary sector is the best in the world because it was deregulated and it was forced to stand on its own two feet, but it was given the flexibility to adapt to market conditions. It was given the opportunity to work out how to compete and then was left to get on with it. It didn\u2019t become the best in the world by being run out of Wellington. I don\u2019t care how good the Ministry for Primary Industries or any other ministry is. If they think they will improve business by taking it over, they are wrong, they are misguided, and it is dangerous thinking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t believe that a bill that purports, on the face of it, to be wanting to protect minor forest owners thinks that it does that by miring them in massive cost and bureaucracy. There is only one reason that we are prepared to have this bill go to a select committee, and that is because National wants to give the forest owners the chance to give their feedback that this Government denied them. This Government denied foresters any chance to feed into this bill, it denied them any opportunity to be part of framing this up, and it wants to now deny them any sort of opportunity to be heard, through a woefully inadequate select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ENow, we will oppose the short\u2014unbelievably and unacceptably short\u2014select committee process, and we\u2019ll get to that debate shortly, but I can tell you: we at least want to make sure that the forest owners have an opportunity to have their say. I can assure this House that members on this side are going to be doing everything we can to make sure that they know of that opportunity and that they take full advantage of that opportunity. Our members are going to be listening very, very carefully to the feedback of those foresters about exactly the damage that this will do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt is not economic recovery to be dictating to business, and yet this Government wants to do exactly that. I do believe that this is the first we are going to see of many attempts by the Government to impose more and more State control on industry under the guise of COVID recovery. I tell you now: it won\u2019t work, it will do damage, and we will oppose it all the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022aceaa99fb33f497aac6014ad76b04112\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aceaa99fb33f497aac6014ad76b04112\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call the Hon Eugenie Sage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u002215c853272beb4d06a99169854cb5ebcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215c853272beb4d06a99169854cb5ebcc\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Why does the National Party hate forestry so much? Our third biggest primary sector, generating $6.9 billion last year. It was under National that we saw thousands of hectares of forest removed because of their hopeless administration of the emissions trading scheme, failing to provide the certainty of a decent carbon price. We saw thousands of hectares in the Waikato converted to dairying, away from forestry. And now all we have heard from the Opposition in this debate is a litany of undervaluing of the forestry sector, failing to recognise that this bill, in putting in place a registration system for log traders and forest advisers, is seeking to improve the quality of advice through the sector. It is something that the four regional workshops that Te Uru R\u0101kau organised highlighted was an issue for those small growers\u2014which, over the 520,000 hectares of the forestry estate in New Zealand that those small growers have, are 30 percent of our plantation estate. Yet when they go to sell logs, they are often disadvantaged because they are not abreast of all of the markets. We are seeing them potentially not earning the revenue that they deserve for that investment in growing those trees and in providing logs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is establish a registration system. But then the National Party hates regulation. It much prefers a laissez-faire system so that the big corporates can benefit and smaller people can\u2019t. So this is about improving the protection for those small growers so that they\u2019ve got access to good quality advice from people who are registered. In the current voluntary system, only 10 percent to 12 percent of forestry advisers are registered through the Institute of Forestry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThis bill is yet another example of this Government\u2019s belief in the forestry sector. As Tamati Coffey noted, this Government has set up Te Uru R\u0101kau to promote and advance the sector, to give it the recognition that it deserves, not just a small unit within the Ministry for Primary Industries as the forestry unit was under National. This Government is ambitious with the billion trees programme, planting not just exotic species for timber but also native trees. It recognises the benefits that trees have for sequestering carbon, for protecting our soils from erosion, and strengthening protection around our waterways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo this Government has an ambitious plan for forestry. This bill is part of it because it is ensuring that those smaller forestry growers that will make up at least 40 percent of the wood supply from the 2020s onwards actually have access to registered advisers and registered traders. And one of the key things the bill also does is ensure that there is log supply going to domestic processors. A lot of those small growers are trading and having all those logs go overseas, those big piles of logs that we see on each of the wharves and the ports. We need more wood processed here in Aotearoa. Red Stag Timber has shown what it is possible to do with sophisticated processing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe need more houses built. This Budget is delivering another 8,000 houses. We can build those out of wood. It is a good product for sequestering carbon. This Government wants a healthy forest industry. This registration bill is about helping to achieve that. It\u2019s interesting that the Opposition criticises it, but at the same time it\u2019s going to vote for it. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00222d1b9759fe724fb29859103fa3a3b25a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d1b9759fe724fb29859103fa3a3b25a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call David Seymour, five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220a7ef696522349a4b38744ee89f6328c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a7ef696522349a4b38744ee89f6328c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. What an extraordinary speech we just heard from the Green member the Hon Eugenie Sage. I can only speculate that she may have had a bit too much kombucha before she got up and gave that one. It\u2019s really nice to be back here on Friday morning in urgency, and great to see the Hon Amy Adams back in the House again after not seeing each other and being away for quite a while. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI should just reflect on a few comments that have been made. One is that this bill is being debated under urgency on a Friday after a Budget where the Government just committed to borrow $70,000 for every household in this country, and we\u2019re here debating the registration of people buying and selling logs. If that gives you a sense of this Government\u2019s true confidence, organisation, and urgency, then I think New Zealand is in big trouble with this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s not in any way to diminish the importance of forestry, and that\u2019s the first error in the speech we just heard from the Green member. The assumption throughout her speech is that if the Government is making rules and regulations for a sector, then the Government must value the sector. But that\u2019s not right. The question should be: is the Government making quality rules and regulations for the sector? And the beginning of making quality rules and regulations is actually to define a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI have to say, looking at this regulatory impact assessment, having been Parliamentary Under-Secretary for regulatory reform in the previous Government, that this is terrible. Under problem definition, we don\u2019t have a problem to be solved given anywhere. All we\u2019re given is a list of the Government\u2019s intentions and aspirations. So that\u2019s the first problem. There\u2019s not actually a correct problem definition. If the Government doesn\u2019t know what problem it\u2019s trying to solve, then it\u2019s not going to get very far in coming up with a solution. Then it says, well, what if the difficulty is that the solution actually creates more problems than it ever solved? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn so far as I can tell, all this bill is going to do\u2014at a time when we need the forestry sector to be efficient and productive\u2014is introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy that people in that sector have to follow. This is actually a problem throughout the New Zealand economy. Every time there\u2019s a problem\u2014such as the Government feeling the need to be seen to be doing something\u2014politicians come up with another set of rules. It works for them because they are seen to be active, and they can say, \u201CWe love forestry because we\u2019re making rules.\u201D no matter whether they\u2019re good or bad or effective or ineffective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen the people that actually do the work end up finding they spend more of their time getting permission to do work, measuring if they\u2019ve done work, confirming work\u2019s been done, complying with a Government department monitoring them doing work\u2014leaving less time to do actual work. That is what makes this country less productive than it would like to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think we know the politics of this is that\u2014and we heard it come out a little bit in the Green member\u2019s speech\u2014the Government is trying to scratch the old itch of: why can\u2019t the logs be processed in New Zealand? Why are they going overseas? I\u2019ve actually worked at a sawmill, TDC Sawmills in Whangarei, for 60 hours a week. I know a thing or two about it. What I notice is that the people that want more logs to be sawed in New Zealand have never actually worked at a sawmill. If they\u2019d had that experience, they might be a little bit less keen on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut what I also know is that the Government has no idea whether a particular log should be milled here or overseas. There are so many variables, and the people that know are the people that actually own the property rights. So the Green member said that this is going to make sure logs are milled in New Zealand. No, it doesn\u2019t. It just means that there has to be an offer for each log to be milled in New Zealand. Then it\u2019ll go where it was going to go anyway, with additional bureaucracy along the way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo this is a terrible bill. I\u2019m not going to stand up and say I support it, because people should have a say. It should just be gone. It\u2019s shameful the Government is introducing a bill of this poor quality in urgency after a Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba0b47b66fc3417ea8aa31c592698b4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba0b47b66fc3417ea8aa31c592698b4e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes\u2014I call Michael Wood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022721960cd35074c22883e7816613d57d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022721960cd35074c22883e7816613d57d2\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker, for an opportunity to speak on the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill, and at the outset I\u2019ll just give a shout-out to my dad, actually, whose company made debarkers and chippers that supported much of the central North Island logging industry. So like the member who just resumed his seat, David Seymour\u2014part of the former Under-Secretaries club of which we are elite members\u2014I have some connection to this industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI just want to say that I am very pleased indeed that the arguments made by the Hon Amy Adams and other members opposite did not hold sway in the mid to late 1930s, when the Minister for Works, the Hon Bob Semple, and the first Labour Government were setting up New Zealand\u2019s forestry industry, because if those arguments did hold sway and we accepted that it was inappropriate for the State to ever have any role in the structure and guidance of important strategic industries to New Zealand, we probably wouldn\u2019t have a forestry industry in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat I also urge the members opposite to do is to actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022369a8a68ed18453cb2f2a1e14d3aa92b\u0022\u003EHon Amy Adams\u003C/span\u003E: How arrogant\u2014\u201CIt wouldn\u2019t have happened without the Government.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a7b6292a3e473292c5270e12cd4811\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s little arrogance involved in that statement, Miss Adams. It\u2019s a statement of historical fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EWhat I would also urge the members opposite to do is to actually read the bill closely. Now, I do acknowledge it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s been brought to the House in urgency so there hasn\u2019t been that much time. But from the statements of the members opposite, one might think that there is a significant burden that has actually been brought down on the forestry owners. That is entirely incorrect. What this bill actually seeks to do is to ensure that those people who supply incredibly important advice and support to forestry owners are properly regulated and actually have to supply advice that can be provided to an appropriate standard, given the significance of the advice, the valuation, and the financial support that they provide to those forestry owners who are seeking to operate in a domestic and international market place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThat advice that is provided by advisers and log traders is exceptionally important if you\u2019re a forestry owner, so my question is a simple one to members opposite: when you take financial advice on your financial affairs, do you think it\u2019s a good thing that the people that you take advice from have to be registered, that they have to be fit and proper persons, that they have to operate to appropriate standards, that they have to have professional training? I rather do, and I rather think it\u2019s good that, actually, the previous Government that those members were a part of did ensure that the financial advisers that each of us seek financial advice from do have to operate to a set of standards. And I\u2019ve yet to hear a single good argument as to why it should be the case that a forestry owner operating in New Zealand shouldn\u2019t have access to advice that is held to the same standard as advice that those members would get for their financial affairs. And that, quite simply, is what this bill seeks to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is a sensible bill. It ensures that the good forestry owners of New Zealand can have confidence in the advice that they get from their advisers and from log traders. It\u2019s an important part of a multi-faceted approach to lifting value in our important forestry sector. It\u2019s an important part of this Government\u2019s plans to back our forestry sector. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccff604b8fdf47b18fe11556bee68753\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccff604b8fdf47b18fe11556bee68753\u0022\u003EHAMISH WALKER (National\u2014Clutha-Southland):\u003C/span\u003E That is an example of this arrogant Government. Mr Wood has the cheek to stand up here and lecture us about our own financial affairs, telling us how to get our own financial affairs in order. To be honest, if we look at the Government MPs over there, there are probably a handful of previous business owners. If I look at my party, the National Party, we would probably have close to half of our caucus who have successfully run their own businesses before. Looking at the Government members, probably three\u2014three out of Labour\u2019s 46 MPs have run their own business. That is an example of the arrogance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EIf we look at the previous speech from the Minister of Conservation, she said this is just the first part of their forestry plan. If you look at what happened here last year, what did we have on their first part of the plan? We had thousands and thousands of people driving tractors through the streets of Wellington to Parliament\u2014and I was fortunate enough to be in that lead tractor. But they had thousands of people turning up to Wellington, driving tractors through the streets of Wellington because rural communities across New Zealand are getting absolutely destroyed by the billion trees policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EYou only need to look at what\u2019s happening in the East Coast. Down in Southland, a resource consent has just been given for a farm, 3,500 hectares\u2014this isn\u2019t any ordinary farm; this is prime, productive land. In a small community in northern Southland, about 5 or 6 kilometres down the road, you\u2019ve got one pub, you\u2019ve got a caravan that sells coffees, and two small tourism shops. Now, it won\u2019t take too many more farms to be sold to be planted out in trees before rural communities across New Zealand\u2014which they already are\u2014are crippled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EJust a reminder to the Government\u2014just to remind you\u2014can you eat trees? No, you cannot eat trees. If the recent COVID disaster is not an example of why we need our productive land to be used for sheep, for beef\u2014the most productive land in the country is supposed to be used for meat, for milk. It is farmers, after all, that have built the wealth of this country. And the lack of respect, especially from the member Tamati Coffey\u2014he said, \u201CYou need to listen to MPs who have their electorates covered in forest.\u201D Well, Tamati Coffey, I see 10 members of the Government over there. How many of those members represent rural electorates? None. On this side of the House, we have about 13 members, and by my count you\u2019ve got six or maybe seven out of the 13 that represent rural electorates. And Tamati Coffey had the cheek to tell us, \u201CYou need to listen to your people.\u201D Well, why aren\u2019t they listening to the thousands of people that protested here at Parliament last year because rural communities are getting destroyed by the billion tree policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EA message for the Government: rural communities tick slightly differently to urban communities. You lose one farming family from the district\u2014often they\u2019re involved in the rugby club. At rugby clubs you might have one person that\u2019s the couch, the bartender, puts the flags out, and puts the padding up on the posts. Often that same person\u2019s involved in the local cemetery, often on the board of trustees. You only need to look at what happened in the Catlins, south Otago, 30 years ago. There was a school there that had 30 kids; this year it\u2019s got six. Now, why the decrease? That\u2019s because valleys there were planted out in trees, roughly 30 years ago. So a school\u2019s gone from 30 kids down to six. I\u2019ve visited farms there over the last few months and they\u2019re concerned. They\u2019re concerned because their own community over the last 30 years has been losing population\u2014farming family after farming family that\u2019s left, especially in the 1990s, because a lot of that land was planted in trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ENow, if the Minister of Conservation tells us this is just the first part of their forestry plan, what\u2019s next? That\u2019s my concern. Now, the National Party backs the forestry sector; it\u2019s our third largest agricultural exporter, and it employs around 26,000, 27,000 people\u2014there\u2019s roughly 14,000, 15,000 small forestry owners out there. I was speaking to a number of those last night. None of them knew this bill was going through Parliament, yet we\u2019re here the day after probably the most important Budget that any of us will see in our lifetime\u2014unemployment expected to go to close to 10 percent, debt is supposed to balloon out to $200 billion, $50 billion of new spend yesterday, with $20 billion of that being a slush fund for the election, a thousand people a day going on to the jobseeker benefit, businesses in my electorate in Queenstown going broke like there\u2019s no tomorrow. Some of these business owners have built up their cliental, their customers, and their businesses over decades, if not generations, to lose it overnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EThe Government came out yesterday with a Budget that simply had no plans, no vision, yet here we are today\u2014the day after the Budget day\u2014debating a registration system for log traders and forestry advisers that strengthens the industry and improves the supply chain. This can be a really good bill, if the Government could just simply get their process in order, go through the proper process. A bill usually takes months, yet here we are rushing it through, the day after the most important budget, possibly, of our generation, to talk about traders. Now, I spoke to some of those forest owners and contractors last night, and had they known about it, they would have liked to get involved. Now, there is a shortened select committee process\u2014I look forward to hearing from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003EForestry appears to be quite simple, but it\u2019s actually really complex. You\u2019ve got a bit of land, you grow trees, you process the trees, you get them to the wharf or the processing mill, and you ship them overseas\u2014sounds simple, but it\u2019s incredibly complex. And if you look at some of the issues that they\u2019ve been having over the years, it\u2019s often the cowboys that get into the industry. Now, I can\u2019t see anything in this legislation that\u2019ll stop those cowboys. For example, I know of one chap\u2014he\u2019s been in the industry 20 years; he\u2019s gone broke 13 times. Now, he owns logging trucks. Now, what he does is he goes in, he promises the world to the farmer or the person that\u2019s grown the trees for 20 or 30 years, promises the world in terms of price, in terms of clearing the site, and often it\u2019s the social licence that is at stake after a large flood in a region, where often on the news you\u2019ll see a whole heap of logs just left there in the valley or on the hill. Now, the reason those logs are there is because the person processing the logs or cutting the logs down, all they care about is getting in there, cutting them down, and shipping them away\u2014getting on to the next job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221f651ff0-881f-4148-8631-0161f1c60f61\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation has the ability to help many, many people out there, but because of the rushed nature of this, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to see the full extent. But I encourage all those people out there to please submit to the select committee. I also ask for all those people who protested down the streets of Wellington last year to protest the billion tree policy, which is literally crippling and destroying rural New Zealand, I encourage them to come in to tell people like Tamati Coffey, Michael Wood, and the Minister of Conservation what they think of their forestry plan to date, because, at the moment, all it\u2019s doing is destroying rural communities across New Zealand and, at the same time, destroying the livelihoods of the people\u2014the farmers, the ones who have built this country up over the years, the ones that will get us through the COVID disaster, and the ones that will get New Zealand back on its feet again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022145584f3a78b47548529447d7da4a06e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022145584f3a78b47548529447d7da4a06e\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I find the narrative that we\u2019ve heard, or, rather, the narratives that we\u2019ve heard, from speeches across the House incredibly confusing. It seems like they\u2019re in disarray and quite disunited on their view, because some speakers claim that the forestry industry is important; others claim it\u2019s not important enough to discuss today. We on this side of the House beg to differ: it is incredibly important. This work has gained urgency with the pandemic situation that we\u2019re in, because processing and forestry companies need to differentiate themselves in a post-COVID environment. The forestry industry is the third largest exporter in the primary sector. Our Budget is about rebuilding together, and that includes the forestry sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that absolutely shows that the Government backs the forestry sector, because it allows log traders and forest owners to have confidence in the advice that\u2019s provided to them. That point has been made time and again from this side of the House. That side of the House just has completely disunited narratives. They can\u2019t make up their mind on whether it\u2019s important or not and whether they should have confidence in advisers. This is an excellent bill; it\u2019s part of our plan to rebuild New Zealand\u2019s economy together, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221bbe2c00a6ff48b8a46478824c569a66\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000078\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Environment Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed93ff14274244df9345852abbceb34b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed93ff14274244df9345852abbceb34b\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Forestry: I move, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 5 June 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 has highlighted the need to increase the resilience of the forestry sector to support regional economies and jobs and help ensure the security of supply for domestic processors; something that we have noted in the Wairarapa region, in particular over the last nine years, and tried desperately to get the Government of the day to correct, and they didn\u2019t. That\u2019s why we\u2019re doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe bill will provide some of the critical foundations to help supply chain stakeholders to navigate what is anticipated to be a more volatile and uncertain trading environment during the COVID-19 recovery period. COVID-19 has had a huge impact on the New Zealand economy. The forestry sector has been one of the hardest hit. This bill will help the sector to restore itself, and it is important that its provisions are put in place as early as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EBudget 2020 is, above all, about jobs. By protecting the integrity of the chain of supply in the face of COVID-19, as the bill will, it will safeguard existing jobs and will support the creation of new jobs. At this time it is essential that this happens as quickly as possible to support the rebuilding of the economy, particularly in the regions. It is all the more important as we emerge from the immediate crisis that smaller investors, who make up more than a third of the ownership of commercial forests, have sound advice on which to base their commercial decisions if maximum value is to be extracted for them and the wider community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThe improvements that the bill makes in terms of the quality of professional advice in this area will help address\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312d0378fc014a5eb67d8fddd1d61087\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really sorry to interrupt the Minister, but the debate is about the instruction to the select committee, not the content of the bill. The Minister has made a couple of references to why the shortened period but is now leading into debating the content of the bill, and I\u2019m just going to ask that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc9f5654d644ff99d79da8d277e0a8f\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Speaker. I would say in commenting on\u2014and we have noted the debate from the Opposition and the expressions of concern that the bill has got a shortened time period. I guess there\u2019s two things. One, we\u2019re giving, through the statement around how the committee can meet, a method by which the committee can determine itself to meet on Fridays or other days and to ensure that it gets wide overage and ensure that the sector is consulted. Rest assured that there has already been good consultation with the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022994486aa0a1648be88dd3c342143f177\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: No, there hasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea0b736386184ab480b044d19a8b65d8\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014pre-empting\u2014and I think the member in the House needs to know that this is a crucial matter. For nine long years it was not addressed. COVID-19 has exacerbated the problem exponentially, and so we wish to move the legislation, knowing full well the quality of the select committee, how capable they are, how they will give full due diligent examination of the bill, and they will work studiously the long hours that they\u2019re paid for to do this job thoroughly. I have total confidence in the committee to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002244462990215b4800a1c5b8149c12ce2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244462990215b4800a1c5b8149c12ce2a\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, that is the most threadbare and pathetic recommendation for a bill to a select committee that I\u2019ve heard in the time that I\u2019ve been here. I mean, we sat last night listening to the Minister stepping through the rationale for this bill, and he made some very clear statements that in his view he had been consulting widely with the sector, and this would have broad support. As you\u2019ve heard from my colleague Hamish Walker this morning and the contribution that I made to the House last night, nothing could be further from the truth. This sector has no idea over the detail of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThey are framing this up as if this is legislation that needs to be heard in urgency and has to be sent now for a quick three-week turn-around, when it has a fundamental reframing, as we\u2019ve heard from our side, on the impact of forest traders and for forest advisers. This is a fundamental change in terms of how the sector is to be re-orientated. They have signalled that the sector\u2019s been well consulted; they haven\u2019t. The leading organisations haven\u2019t been told about the bill. It was made very clear last night that they\u2019re going to hear about it for the first time in detail this morning. It is outrageous, firstly, that they have not been involved in the way that the Minister has suggested, and, secondly, now, they\u2019ve got only three weeks to report back on a piece of legislation which, as we heard last night from the Minister, in his mind, has great fundamental resetting of the forest sector in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EWe hear from the Minister around how important he thinks forestry is, and how it\u2019s important that we sit beside forestry right now as they recover through COVID. Well, where was he when in level 4 they were completely locked down, and every single one of them wanted to start safely, and they said, \u201CNo, no, no. Stay at home.\u201D? I mean, that sector\u2019s now on its feet. The export returns are the best they\u2019ve been for two years as China recovers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe whole construct of this has been flawed from the start. To be able to put this bill through in urgency and argue that we need to assess it as quickly as we have this evening and this morning, and now have the arrogance to suggest that three weeks\u2014for a sector that hasn\u2019t been consulted, a sector that hasn\u2019t seen the bill that does have profound impacts on the way they operate\u2014is enough for them to have a considered assessment and have the confidence that this Government actually understands their sector and the details and the impacts it\u2019s going to have on them is a disgrace. From our side, we reject the time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003EThe fact that it is being sent to the Environment Committee, when the Primary Production Committee has only one bill in front of it, and has a history, to be fair, a cross-party history, of pragmatism\u2014we\u2019ve just dealt with the dairy industry bill where we wrestled very difficult and profound, challenging issues for a sector. We got it through, and we got an agreement and a position that was better. It took us many months, but the calibre of the contributions were significant. The idea that the forestry sector, which is part of the primary industry, our committee doesn\u2019t get the opportunity to provide rigour and assessment of it, but it instead goes to the Environment Committee, and then only gives them three weeks, is a complete nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002217a222a3af534e8aaf82dcf478472052\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217a222a3af534e8aaf82dcf478472052\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I rise also to contribute to this debate about the idea that the bill that has just passed its first reading should be reported back from select committee, if I heard right from the Minister, by 5 June\u2014in other words, in three weeks\u2019 time. And this speaks to a chaos in the Government\u2019s legislative programme, much of which actually came out in the Minister\u2019s speech in favour of shortening the report back period for the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe Minister said something very interesting. He said that it wouldn\u2019t be necessary to have as much consultation at select committee because there\u2019d been a lot of consultation by the Minister. Well, that\u2019s extraordinary for two reasons. One is that he\u2019s saying that, actually, this is very urgent and needs to be done quickly, so one might ask when did the Minister start his consultation and who knew about it? Well, he didn\u2019t say. You\u2019d think that, if his argument was that all the consultation had already been done by the Minister, he could have told us. So I think we can dismiss that as an attempt at justifying this rush that doesn\u2019t have any substance. But more important is the fact the Minister seems to think that, if he\u2019s done the consultation, then Parliament doesn\u2019t have to. He seems to believe that, actually, it\u2019s not up to Parliament to make laws; it\u2019s not the people of New Zealand sending their representatives to Wellington to reflect their views that are important in New Zealand lawmaking. So long as the Minister tells us that he has, in some unspecified way, gone about a consultation, then New Zealanders should be happy with that. That is a fundamentally undemocratic proposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s this question of it being so urgent to get this done, and another contradiction in what the Minister had to say. He used the hackneyed refrain of the Government, \u201CWell, you guys didn\u2019t do it before. Nine long years this legislation wasn\u2019t introduced.\u201D Well, let\u2019s just remember that the current Government has had 2\u00BD years and they didn\u2019t introduce any legislation like this in that period either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7dcdb1838514c06be68b490453cd3c7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to interrupt the member. I was listening to the debate from my room, and I will say that the Minister was quite wide of the mark in a number of the comments that he made with regard to relevance for this motion. The fact that he did that does not open it right up for everyone else to provide irrelevant comments. I\u2019m just doing a warning now that the length of the debate will depend on people coming back to what is a very narrow motion and speaking to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233352fca14c84cae9784602c3a9ad628\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, fair enough, Mr Speaker. I did feel that that was the case, but it was important to address his points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll now come back to some of the practicalities of the committee. A couple of things the Minister said\u2014that, Mr Speaker, I hope you\u2019ll agree were relevant\u2014were about where the committee would conduct itself. He asked that the committee be given permission to meet anywhere in the country. Now, I think that\u2019s a very good thing, because trees don\u2019t all grow in Auckland and Wellington. In fact, forestry is probably the most widely distributed and remote industry in the country, with the possible exception of some farming and fishing. And so it makes good sense that the committee can travel and go to the places where the people affected by this legislation predominantly are. That makes a lot of sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHe also said that the committee should be able to meet on Fridays, and I always think that members of Parliament should earn their salaries, and the idea that they shouldn\u2019t be meeting and working on Fridays is absurd; so I give the Minister a big tick for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut, if it\u2019s his intention that the committee is able to do this kind of wide consultation, well, there\u2019s another way he could achieve that, and that is simply by giving it the due amount of time to go out and consult people properly. That\u2019s important because the process that has to be gone through actually has a number of stages, and I think it\u2019s really important that we actually just remind ourselves what those are before we whisk them away with a truncated select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFirst of all, people who have had this bill dumped on them under urgency\u2014remember, no one in this House had seen the bill. The Minister says some people have been consulted; we don\u2019t know if that\u2019s true or not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ef2b3f5bb164ab78ccd2ec435ed92e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022969b2216e68d4c26b733810186f8a3ba\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Presumably, no one had seen this bill until last night. And people who are going to be affected by it are going to have to form a view on the bill. This is the first formal opportunity that they\u2019ve had to do that. Once they\u2019ve thought about it, perhaps talked to their colleagues, perhaps come to a conclusion as a group or as a body within the forestry sector, or maybe many groups and bodies might have different and conflicting views, they\u2019ve actually got to get together their submissions. And that takes some work; these people are busy\u2014as we know, there\u2019s a crisis on out there. And once they\u2019ve done that, they\u2019ve got to send them in. And for there to be any meaning to this process, we then need the MPs on the Environment Committee to actually be able to read and digest them and understand them, and then perhaps seek their own advice and say to people they may know in the sector, or in their electorates, or that their party has a relationship with, \u201CDoes this make sense? What do we think about this?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen they\u2019ve got to hear those oral submissions that the Minister mentioned, perhaps on a Friday, perhaps travelling around the country as maybe they should. That\u2019s all got to happen, but, of course, that has to be scheduled in. People are busy; they\u2019ve got forests to plant, trees to chop down, logs to shift, things to mill. There\u2019s quite a lot going on in the sector. Not everyone has time to drop everything just because a select committee wants to hear your view on what it\u2019s about to do\u2014what Parliament\u2019s about to do to you\u2014in this very shortened time frame. So that is another consideration. But even if they get to make the oral submission, you\u2019d hope that the select committee is then going to deliberate and think of suggestions for how the bill\u2019s going to be improved, so that the committee can report the bill back to this House. And I think people should get the picture: in the three weeks between now and 5 June, there is just no practical way that that can happen for one region, let alone if the committee plans to go to many regions. It\u2019s completely impractical that there will be any kind of real consultation on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then we come back to the question of the speed of changing the law in the context of a crisis, and the fact is that changing laws, while sometimes helpful, also introduces great uncertainty. So the Minister has argued that this has to happen quickly, and I think people should accept that that\u2019s going to lead to lower quality lawmaking and trust in lawmaking than we\u2019d get if there was time for the full process to occur. But also, the fact is that, even if we accept that the law may not be as good as it could have been, even if we take that and say that\u2019s worth it, what is the effect of getting this law into place in the middle of a crisis? I would argue that, actually, when it comes to people being able to navigate through crisis conditions, it\u2019s actually going to make it harder for them if there is a new legal framework put in place right in the middle of the very crisis that the Minister would have us believe this legislation is going to fix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo, to conclude, I believe that the Minister has inadvertently made the case to take longer on this legislation. He\u2019s right that there are people in a range of disparate locations affected, and it takes longer to travel and get to hear from them. He\u2019s right that there is a crisis going on, and that there\u2019s great uncertainty, and that people need to be clear on what is actually happening. And he\u2019s right that forestry is a vital and critical industry for the wider New Zealand economy. But when you think about it, all of the reasons the Minister gave for a shortened select committee process are actually reasons why this Parliament should be doing full and proper processes to make good laws. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022 data-id=\u002225d731aaed77452e8b5c01bbddb498c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225d731aaed77452e8b5c01bbddb498c6\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS (National\u2014Selwyn):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I also want to make a contribution on this issue of the referral motion to the select committee, and, in particular, but not exclusively, the three-week time frame. Following on from Mr Seymour, who spoke previously to me, I think it is vitally important, when we are in this House debating the adequacy of a referral motion and the adequacy of a report-back period, that we do so in consideration of the context of the bill, the scope of change that is being made to the sector, and, therefore, the ability for those affected to really understand and communicate adequately with the committee the impacts of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIn that context, I want to refer the House to comments the Minister made when he was introducing the legislation, when he referred to the legislation as being something in the nature of a fundamental reset of the way forestry works. This isn\u2019t a small change in excise duty rates or tax rates where, you know, we are making simple\u2014none the less important\u2014changes to our structures, which are the sorts of things we would see in Budget day urgency. This is, in the words of the Minister\u2014and I apologise it\u2019s not an exact quote; I don\u2019t have the Hansard transcript in front of me\u2014what the Minister described as, effectively, a fundamental reset of the sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ENow, to undertake a fundamental reset of the sector surely should scream to members of this House: \u201COK. Well, that\u2019s something we need to take pretty carefully, with great deliberation, and, certainly, involving the most fulsome consultation with those affected that we possibly can.\u201D We\u2019re all very mindful of the context that we\u2019re operating in, with the nature of the economic impact of COVID-19, and we are mindful, I\u2019m sure\u2014every member of this House\u2014that the last thing we would want to do is do more harm to our economy. But how can we possibly assure ourselves, unless we have the somehow misguided belief that we know everything and don\u2019t need to have that communication with those involved in the sector, how can we possibly do our jobs as members of Parliament and assure ourselves that we\u2019re not doing more harm to the sector when we\u2019re designing a fundamental reset without giving a select committee\u2014which I personally am of the view is an incredibly impart of testing and considering and working through the detail of legislation\u2014without giving that sector that time to be involved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI want to just take a moment of my contribution to outline the reality of what a three-week select committee process means in reality, because, I think, for people watching or following these debates, who maybe aren\u2019t as involved in them as the members of this House are, they won\u2019t understand. They might think, \u201CWell, you know, gosh, in three weeks, if I work really hard, I can probably pull together a bit of a breakdown of this and make some input.\u201D It doesn\u2019t mean that at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EA three-week select committee, effectively, means that the chair will call for submissions, I imagine, as soon as the bill is referred to them, and, I can only guess\u2014obviously it\u2019s a matter for the chair, but my expectation would be that that call for submissions will probably last in the order of a few days. I would be very surprised if a call for submissions was more than three or four days in length. That is the time that we would, effectively, be giving people to submit, because once the submissions come in, they have to be analysed by officials, reports have to be given to the select committee, there has to be time for the Parliamentary Counsel Office to work through any drafting changes that might be required, there has to be time for the select committee to deliberate, and then, at the end of that, there is a time for the committee staff to work through the report and draft it and debate it with members and prepare it for report back to the House. All of that has to happen and the report be back in this House by the end of that three weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003ESo the actual time that a report-back referral motion of this nature gives those who want to submit is in the order of just a few days\u2014a few days for a piece of legislation that, in the Minister\u2019s own words, fundamentally resets the way this sector operates. I want to use the words \u201Cwoefully inadequate\u201D, but the words \u201Cwoefully inadequate\u201D are woefully inadequate to describe the woeful inadequacy of that. I would hope that that is self-evident to this House, that you can\u2019t possibly do the job we\u2019re elected to do properly in that time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EIt isn\u2019t OK to simply say, \u201CWell, we think it\u2019s necessary, so we need to get on with it.\u201D This is not our livelihoods that we\u2019re talking about. These are not our businesses. This is not our capital that\u2019s invested. These are not our jobs. These are the jobs of the people who work in the forestry sector. These are the businesses of the people who have invested time and money in that sector. They deserve the respect of a chance to, at least, let the members of this House know what they think about this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard already today of many, many people in the forestry sector who have indicated to us that they had no idea of this bill. So it isn\u2019t as if a lot of this work has been done, a lot of the thinking has been done, and they can simply add it into the process. Despite the representations that we\u2019ve had in the referral motion, I know personally of large-scale forestry associations who had no idea of this legislation until we gave it to them yesterday. These are businesses that are deep in the throes of trying to get back on their feet after the lockdown\u2014and we all understand the context of that. But to say at that time, \u201CActually, drop everything. Get your legal advisers in the room, get your experts in the room, get your bankers in the room, and figure out what this is going to mean for your business, and then get a considered, detailed breakdown into a select committee within the next couple of days.\u201D is an appalling abuse of the powers of this House\u2014it is appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EI cannot accept the Minister\u2019s argument as to why this sort of shortened time frame is required that we heard in the referral motion. It is important that we consider the rationale that the Minister gave us for the referral motion when we\u2019re debating it. He said it was because it\u2019s important for jobs and regional economies. But we can have no understanding of the impact of those matters when we\u2019re not allowing the very people who are affected to have a say. It is arrogance in the extreme to think that we all know far more than they do and because the Minister has decided that it\u2019s what\u2019s necessary, that\u2019s all the thinking that needs to be done, and now we just need to get on with it. Not only is it arrogance, it risks doing real harm to a sector and economy that is already in dire and desperate straits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one other matter of the referral motion that I want to address in this contribution, and that is the inexplicable request that it be sent to the Environment Committee. If this is indeed a bill, as we heard in the referral motion, that is critically important because of jobs and regional economies, why on earth is the Environment Committee considering it? If this is indeed a matter of jobs and rural economies, why isn\u2019t either the Primary Production Committee or, at least, the Finance and Expenditure Committee, given the reference to export taxes, considering it? You cannot separate the justification that is being put up for the shortened select committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981e15fd5eff42f88410f33d83e8302b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Order! That matter has been settled in a previous motion. It\u2019s not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dc6c0f88-e781-476d-bca1-d1bf9b69302b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abacc9bfd9554504b6011d9c8bbebf8c\u0022\u003EHon AMY ADAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The bill deserves to have proper consideration by those that are affected, it deserves the members of this House getting that input before they deliberate on it, and it deserves, frankly, a full and proper process. No basis has been laid out by the Minister that justifies the shortened time frame. It is utterly outrageous that, under the guise of a COVID recovery package, this House is being asked to rush through what Ron Mark just told us is something that he\u2019s wanted to do for years. This isn\u2019t about COVID recovery; it is about them using the excuse of the situation that we find ourselves in to ram through what their ideology tells us, which is that they know best and that they\u2019re taking the opportunity to ram that down the throats of the industry\u2014and it\u2019s appalling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223d53cc81408a4ce780e189deeb19ba31\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 5 June 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cd2bec6e52a4fe689f292e210b2026c\u0022\u003ECustoms and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208dd59bb237f48fd85f26bad724215e7\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022804456a57bbb48be83e4252ba247be56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022804456a57bbb48be83e4252ba247be56\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to combat tobacco smuggling and to secure Crown revenue collected from excise on tobacco. Governments of all stripes have used excise on tobacco as one tool to tackle the negative health impacts and costs of tobacco consumption on individuals and our society. This is significant, at approximately $2 billion in tobacco excise being collected in 2019-2020. But smuggled tobacco is part of an increasing black market to evade excise, and current smuggling patterns are undermining the effectiveness of border controls. This bill will combat tobacco smuggling through imposing import controls over tobacco products, over tobacco leaf, and refuse. It will require anyone importing these goods to hold a permit and will provide for an expedited and cost-efficient seizure and disposal process for tobacco imported illegally without a permit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ETobacco smuggling has become increasingly problematic in Aotearoa New Zealand. Interceptions of smuggled cigarettes at the border have increased by 352 percent between 2015 and 2019. Interceptions in 2018 were 53 percent higher than in 2017. In the last 12 months customs has seized illicit tobacco products representing $10.8 million in excise tax forgone. Customs also suspects that tobacco leaf being imported legitimately through the international mail service, being operated by New Zealand Post, is later being manufactured illegally in New Zealand without a licence in order to avoid paying excise on tobacco leaf. This has increased from 150 kilograms in 2016 to 5,000 kilograms in 2019. Based on these numbers, about $5 million in excise and further GST was lost in 2019 alone. Lost revenue not only affects the Government\u2019s ability to support and provide services to New Zealanders; it also undermines law and order objectives and effectiveness, as well as that of the Government\u2019s Smokefree 2025 goal, which is aimed at saving lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBoth the smuggling of tobacco products and importation of tobacco leaf have grown rapidly over the last 12 months to 18 months, and there is no reason to think that this will not continue. Organised crime is involved, often using the same techniques as in illegal drug smuggling. Large amounts of money are being laundered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWhile some very large shipments of smuggled tobacco have been intercepted in sea cargo, tobacco is also being smuggled through multiple postal items. This technique requires a different response, the response that this bill contains. The existing border controls and processing system and its legislative framework are not designed for the high volumes of illicit tobacco that are now being seen, especially in our international mail centre. Customs does not receive information about international mail in advance of importation, so it cannot undertake the risk assessments prior to these goods arriving as it can with goods being imported through other pathways such as courier. It ties up significant staffing resources and forces customs to store consignments it knows will never be able to be claimed, and to chase payment from professional smugglers who are never going to pay, even if they could be identified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIn the middle of a global pandemic, when the brave men and women of the New Zealand Customs Service are required at the border to keep New Zealanders safe, it is wrong to be diverting precious staffing resources to process illegal cigarettes that will never be claimed. For example, 2,086 packages of cigarettes were intercepted in the mail stream in two weeks\u2014two weeks\u2014during August 2019. Customs officers were required to spend 90 days of their time to carry out administration to record, to legally seize, to store, and, eventually, to destroy these goods. This reduces the staffing resources available to locate and seize illegal drugs like meth and other prohibited items hidden in international mail, and it significantly delays the passage of legitimate goods through the international mail centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EIf customs stops the goods, it makes financial sense for the importer to abandon the importation and try again at another time or through another channel. Losing a $2 pack of cigarettes means nothing to many of these importers but wastes the valuable time of our customs officers. This bill will change that. Anyone importing tobacco or tobacco leaf will first need to get a permit. This will provide customs with advanced information to assess the bona fides of importers and to support follow-up revenue. Permits will not be available for imports through the international mail service. Tobacco must be imported using a freight forwarder, the fast freight courier system, or bulk sea cargo. This aims to shut down the widespread use of international mail to smuggle tobacco and evade excise. Combined with the simplified seizure process, this will enable customs to deal much more effectively and efficiently with any tobacco that continues to be posted. Knowing any imports of tobacco products, tobacco leaf, and tobacco refuse identified in the mail will be seized and destroyed will deter the importation through that route. In the unlikely event, though, of imported tobacco products and leaf and refuse being seized and destroyed in error\u2014for example, when the person had a valid permit to import\u2014the importer will be entitled to compensation for the customs value of the goods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWith this bill having highlighted how tobacco imports are undermining the system, it is very important to take urgent and swift action so that there is a limited opportunity for it to get worse, especially in relation to tobacco leaf. Given the involvement of organised crime, money laundering, and circumventing the smoke-free controls, urgent action is required. This bill is not about making the system harder for compliant importers or legal purchasers of cigarettes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EFor our people who are smokers\u2014and I do encourage you to seek help to quit\u2014and normally buy your cigarettes from a dairy or service station, nothing will change for you. No one buying legitimate products will see any change, as the permit system will have no impact on the availability or price of legal tobacco products. Also, it is important to note that international passengers bringing tobacco in with them will not be affected, as the current passenger duty-free concession is unaffected by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ECustoms officials have worked hard to ensure established compliant importers will be transferred to the new system with no disruption to their business, and for there to be no impact to smokers of legitimate imported product. For established importers, there will be no change at all for the next year. Customs will issue them with a multi-use permit lasting for a year or until their manufacturing licence needs to be renewed. For those importers seeking a permit, the process will be simple, quick, and free of charge\u2014I repeat: the permit is free. I am confident that this bill will achieve its objective: deterring smuggling and protecting Crown revenue. A similar system has been introduced in Australia, and it is proving to be very successful. I ask Parliament to support this bill. It will come into force on 1 July, and it will deter tobacco smuggling without imposing undue and unfair costs on our legitimate importers. I am pleased to commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00220033dba88cff4a6885357f20e1c81085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220033dba88cff4a6885357f20e1c81085\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Due to the fog of war\u2014the smokescreen, if you will\u2014I won\u2019t declare the National Party\u2019s hand till the very end. But I\u2019m struck that this House, sitting on a Friday in Budget urgency, facing, arguably, what the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and others have put forward as the greatest crisis to this country in one hundred years, and what\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207a1dafa5786443083a4317b66b11e0b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Unprecedented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e56f55b060f4d9f9acc7a9728714d5c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Unprecedented\u2014which, in fact, as a lover of the English language, I\u2019m almost losing the will to live, because that\u2019s been used\u2014\u201Cin unprecedented times\u201D. In the most crisis-driven time of our country, supposedly, in a moment where we are spending tens of billions of dollars, the Government has decided that a minor tweak to the Customs and Excise Act is what this Parliament needs to focus on. I can\u2019t fathom it. I\u2019ll come, honestly, to the nature of the bill and what it\u2019s going to do and what National thinks of that, but I am struggling to reconcile in any rational or meaningful way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a38ee885f6e4404b8fac033e58849b42\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not rational.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022336dfb59486748c29d3b3260f53afb7a\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014why after a Budget day, a Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed4dc09c092b434289844a5a0f19afb0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! It\u2019s not fair to say that about the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb661f2f6df14e0eb92d94d3e2b203b8\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see. He may not have been implying the member\u2014who knows. But it makes absolutely no sense that this Parliament is in urgency hours after a Budget, as I say, which is going to put this country into enormous debt for generations, and feels that the most important thing it needs to focus on is two minor tweaks\u2014now, I want to stress that again: minor tweaks\u2014to the Customs and Excise Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAs context, we know\u2014actually, in the course of this speech, statistically, between three and five New Zealanders are going to lose their jobs. I\u2019d better be clear: that\u2019s not because of my speech. But if we divide about a thousand jobs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e49a1bea2f24d4ea9966b9c49b3e81e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m going to warn the member now. He\u2019s been going for two minutes; he hasn\u2019t actually touched on the substance of the bill. And it won\u2019t be because of his speech, if he continues like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e394d7f4a8f0420aac1778f4bd18d86c\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, the substance of this bill, of course, is tobacco. What is this bill trying to do? Firstly, it wants to put forward import licences. What it\u2019s really going to do is enable the big players to be the sole players in this market. And I don\u2019t say that with any love of those who are bringing tobacco in illegally\u2014it\u2019s a growing problem. But an import licence is going to be required, and, importantly, too, within that import licence, a promise not to use the postal stream. Why that\u2019s important is, pretty much, unless you are licensed to bring tobacco in\u2014in, effectively, a giant container\u2014any other tobacco coming into the country will be seized. Importantly, cigars are exempt, and that\u2019s not an advertisement for cigar smokers, but that\u2019s exempt. And probably important for those who appear to like the tobacco leaf, you can still get your\u2014whatever the rule is at the airport; you can get how many of the cigarettes you need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe second part to the bill, which follows up, is that, basically, now customs can seize whatever it deems illegal, destroy it immediately, and only compensate you if the person can prove that they were legitimately to have it. The Minister sort of explained some of the dynamics. The current system, I think\u2014and if people are listening into this, again, as they have lost their jobs and are sitting on the couch wondering about their future and what the Government is offering them. What they\u2019re offering them is a change to the process that if they bring in illegal products, as you do at the moment, you get sent a notice by customs, you\u2019ve got about seven days to appeal, and customs has to hold on to it. The sheer volume\u2014and the Minister did touch on this\u2014of tobacco is filling warehouses. A little tongue-in-cheek and a little darkly, perhaps it\u2019s actually good for the warehouse companies to have something in them, because, again, the Government\u2019s offered absolutely nothing in this Budget to help them. But, fundamentally, it\u2019s going to be tossed out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278485403aef64d5f96b485996a6dc66d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Second warning\u2014the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1404682476f4dbdb4487aac1f7cf848\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s see if we can go for strike three, then. So, fundamentally, we have a bill which does so very little. Importantly, when one looks at the regulatory impact statement, it came out in November last year, and I think it\u2019s incredibly important that we in Opposition ask the Minister why it has taken to Budget day 2020, in the midst of the greatest crisis in a hundred years, to push it through now. This was planned and decided upon in November last year. Again, those who want to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fb7ddee51947749704b69980250916\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: All of a sudden, it\u2019s urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16f54ce4f3b4177ad114c635b732276\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Now it\u2019s urgent\u2014now it\u2019s urgent. As I say, we need to acknowledge customs themselves. They do a great job. I\u2019m very conscious\u2014and again, to echo the Minister\u2019s words, customs does a very good job intercepting. But if you look at all the things that could be done, is this really what customs needs? Because when I talk to customs, what they want is more ability to intercept at the border. So it\u2019s all well and good that we\u2019ve said, \u201COh, we\u2019re going to.\u201D, but I\u2019m a little confused at why there is not more money announced to enable them to intercept tobacco coming into the country, be it the new technologies that can be deployed to detect it, and, in fact, more staff that\u2019s needed. We are going to see, in this customs and excise space, a lot more product in general coming into the country. If we want to meaningfully and quickly intercept it, as this bill intends, then why is there actually not money and support for that? I think the priorities are completely out of whack. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe last thing I have to note around all of this is the glaring, continued contradictions we have from this Government around tobacco and other drug products. Here we are, again, in Budget urgency, at 10.30 on a Friday morning, putting through these two minor tweaks to make it more difficult to\u2014and rightly, I would say, you know\u2014stop illegal tobacco. Yet we have a Government that\u2019s promoting cannabis use, which makes no sense at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8b61a94d99420c8876183aaceb6832\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! No, we\u2019re controlling it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c3cb6be03cb4419bac076721c032fd4\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: So it really makes no sense at all. It\u2019s one of those glaring contradictions. [Interruption] Children will mock this sort of thing and can\u2019t get their rational heads around it\u2014that\u2019s childishness. Most adults can understand what is a glaring contradiction. So we\u2019ve had a Government keen on making sure you can have 30 or 40 whatever you call cigarettes of cannabis, and yet here we are wasting the Parliament\u2019s time around this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9b81f11486548b4bf3aae6b6e24ed4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9b81f11486548b4bf3aae6b6e24ed4d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00229b38fa70da3840aa9e519e197cc39118\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b38fa70da3840aa9e519e197cc39118\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The member who just resumed his seat, Simon O\u2019Connor, talked about losing the will to live. I\u2019ve lost the will to live after listening to about seven minutes of his speech, and I would suggest that that member reads the bill if he wants to understand what this is about. Or I\u2019ll outline it for him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe problem that this bill is seeking to address is the fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049a0f6d0ff241b495c6110f72a71bd4\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What is the problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907229b8c06a4e3ab390eb152a809aaa\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Let me tell you, Mr Bidois. The interceptions of smuggled cigarettes at the border has increased by 352 percent between 2015 and 2019, and that member who has just resumed his seat talks about warehouses that might want to stock illegal products. That is horrifying, let me tell you. Interceptions in 2018 were 53 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214be924b3e8649a9869f960e021e20dd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m going to interrupt the member early and repeat a ruling I made on an earlier debate. The fact that a member has previously brought in an irrelevancy does not make it relevant to be replied to. And I ruled that what the member said was not relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4bbb7d5086c4bd18c9fe9c6923f256f\u0022\u003EPRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure, Mr Speaker. I wouldn\u2019t want to make my speech irrelevant as a result. Interceptions in 2018 were 53 percent higher than in 2017. This is a growing problem. In the last 12 months alone, customs has seized illicit tobacco product representing $10.8 million of excise tax that was forgone. Those are the two issues that this bill tries to combat. I think it\u2019s pretty clear, if only that member had bothered to read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, the way in which this bill will address that problem is to impose import controls over tobacco products, tobacco leaf, and refuse\u2014very clear. It requires anyone who\u2019s importing these goods to hold a permit, and it will ensure that very quickly and in a cost-efficient manner, there will be seizure and disposal of that product that is imported illegally and without a permit. That\u2019s pretty much what this bill will do. It addresses an industry that is illegal and growing in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI just want to make one more point before I take my seat, and that is to assure those who may be hooked on cigarettes that the Minister has made it very clear that if they would like to seek some help to quit, there is that help available. However, people who currently buy their cigarettes from the local dairy down the road need not worry that they will be affected by this bill, because they won\u2019t. No one buying legitimate product in New Zealand will notice any change, as the permit system will have no impact on the availability or the price of legitimate tobacco product, Mr O\u2019Connor. And so that is the crux of the bill. That is what this Government is addressing through this bill. It\u2019s a good bill and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00226f9a1bcaec30440a99850c8c0d0a6599\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f9a1bcaec30440a99850c8c0d0a6599\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The issue that this bill is tackling is a very serious one for our nation, no question of that. I speak in this debate having been the last Minister of Customs in the previous National-led Government, and it is a fabulous portfolio. I want to pay tribute to the outstanding work of the men and women of the New Zealand Customs Service. It was a great privilege to be their Minister, and I saw them tackling this very issue during my time as a Minister when I visited customs facilities around the country. I acknowledge that the Hon Jenny Salesa will have done the same, and that will be, in part, what is motivating her to bring the bill to the House this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s a bit of a revolving door portfolio for the current Government. The Hon Jenny Salesa is already the third Minister to hold the customs portfolio, so I imagine the Customs Service are waiting to see who their next Minister will be after the change of Government on 19 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d4d22b8d860443a8d122a6a517412e1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Tim Macindoe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022850f25b7889d4ab09ede3bcbdaa1b7b3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I would love it to be to Tim Macindoe. I would really be delighted to pick up the portfolio again. So I do hope that my leader is listening and that I\u2019ll have the support of my colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ELet me just repeat, though, that this is a serious issue that is being tackled right at this moment by dedicated professionals working for the Customs Service. I can be pretty confident that somebody working for the service just in the last hour or so has probably detected illicit tobacco coming in, because it comes in in the most bizarre ways, often very crudely disguised in heat pumps and other appliances, in ornaments, and all sorts of bizarre packages for the reason, as the Minister noted, that they just rely on being able to get some of it over the border. A huge amount is detected because our Customs Service people are very good. They are great professionals, but you also have to sympathise with them for having the odd fist pump when they detect another of these packages, because when they are having to scrutinise huge volumes of packages and other sorts of things coming through the service, every so often to realise that they have detected another illegal importation\u2014often it\u2019s drugs, not necessarily just tobacco. They are doing great work for our nation and, in many cases, saving lives. The motivation, of course, for the smugglers to try to get the tobacco into our country is that they can do so at a dirt cheap price. And I don\u2019t know because I don\u2019t smoke tobacco, and I certainly don\u2019t try to make contact with illegal smugglers, or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a90995550e4814864783494842d2c3\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: How do we know that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022780ffc5022ea4cfbaa6e4f18bcab249a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: How do we know that? You\u2019ll just have to take my word for it, the Hon Jacqui Dean, but I appreciate that vote of confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe point I\u2019m making is that those who are receiving these packets of cigarettes around the country\u2014and there\u2019ll be many of them\u2014are knowing that they can buy them for a very cheap price, and they probably flick them on making good profit. So it\u2019s all about profit on volume. Even if, goodness knows, 60 percent, whatever it might be, is forfeited, they can still make a profit out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo it is a serious issue, but it isn\u2019t an issue that is going to rebuild our country. It isn\u2019t an issue that is going to create jobs, and, at a time of the greatest fiscal crisis this nation has ever faced, it is utterly extraordinary that this is a measure that we are being asked to consider through all its stages, because not a single job will be created out of it. Yes, some illegal activity may be stopped\u2014although I\u2019m going to be asking some questions of the Minister during the committee of the whole House stage as to how exactly that is going to be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EFor now, I will simply say I welcome the measure. I\u2019m happy to confirm my support for it because I\u2019ve seen the problem firsthand through the privilege I\u2019ve had of having been the Minister of Customs. But I am utterly bewildered as to why this measure is being considered under urgency, as we should be looking at measures supposedly related to a Budget that is all about rescuing our economy, trying to secure job growth, trying to save businesses, trying to save jobs for people, trying to save their livelihoods. This bill does none of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0580779cee540ad8ae8efb68216c30c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0580779cee540ad8ae8efb68216c30c\u0022\u003EHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s really interesting\u2014we had a saying in Wai\u014Duru that if you got posted there and you stood still and you never moved from there, eventually you\u2019d get to meet everyone in the New Zealand Army, because everyone transits through Wai\u014Duru; likewise, Parliament. In my 20-odd years here\u2014it\u2019s been rather curious. I look at this piece of legislation\u2014tobacco, tobacco smuggling, excise duties\u2014and I can recall these debates going back. In 2002\u2014I think around 2002\u2014at the time when we first started this discussion about smoke-free New Zealand and excise duties and what it was going to do, there were predictions made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIn fact, I recall trying to highlight the issue of tobacco smuggling back then. In fact, at that time, I came across an interesting chap who\u2019d spent some time in prison. He had embedded himself inside a certain sector of the Auckland community, which comprised a lot of foreign students who were making an absolute killing importing illegal tobacco; and, by the way, CDs, and, by the way, producing fake drivers licences\u2014very bright, brilliant young people who were doing very well on the black market. Trying to raise the issue of what raising excise duties would do in exasperating the black market tobacco problem just fell on deaf years. I remember those debates in the House\u2014nobody wanted to accept it. Everybody was focused on the purity of a smoke-free New Zealand, and it\u2019s interesting hearing the comments about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003ESo I come to this bill\u2014the bill is about combatting tobacco smuggling. My point is that it\u2019s pleasing in 2020 to finally see some legislation aimed at combatting tobacco smuggling\u2014finally doing that, the same as illegal growing of tobacco as well. But why is New Zealand First supporting this piece of legislation? We know, from the Minister\u2019s documents, that Crown revenue for tobacco excise was about $2 billion last year\u2014excise duty on tobacco about $2 billion. Now, that\u2019s a result of the National Party and the M\u0101ori Party doing a deal and escalating excise duties. The one thing that was going to happen as tobacco prices increased: it was going to create a supply/demand challenge and an opportunity for increased smuggling, and that\u2019s what we saw. One of the other predictions was that we\u2019d see more dairies being robbed. We predicted that, and that came to pass. We are dealing with that now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation attacks the problem of smuggling. It creates a permitting regime so that anyone importing tobacco, tobacco leaf, has to get a permit\u2014tick for that. We agree with that. It removes the ability for people to import tobacco through the international mail service\u2014tick, we agree with that. It creates a simplified seizure process. Anything that can simplify the processes there and allow customs to destroy the product as quickly as possible, we agree\u2014tick for that. It won\u2019t have an effect on the vast majority of people who purchase their cigarettes legitimately\u2014tick for that. It won\u2019t affect people bringing in their allowance of tobacco through customs when they arrive back from their holidays in Australia\u2014tick for that; we agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003EIt will impose import controls over tobacco products; we\u2019ve already said we agree with that. So, essentially, as we go through the advantages of this piece of legislation, New Zealand First can only say this is aimed and targeted correctly. It\u2019s probably just about 15 years late, but hey, we\u2019re here under urgency, so let\u2019s get it done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed1524f22134626b235ccf686cb7d9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed1524f22134626b235ccf686cb7d9b\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thanks very much, and it\u2019s a pleasure to be back in the House here, again, for the post-Budget debate. As yesterday\u2019s Budget alluded to, we\u2019re in desperate times, and we\u2019re heading into some dark times for our economy, certainly. This morning, I received a message from a constituent with a family of five, and the husband\u2019s losing a job. She\u2019s worried about herself being made redundant. She asked me \u201CWhat\u2019s in the Budget for me?\u201D, and I had to go back to her this morning, saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351725ebe5e24acf9130d019c5f5b09f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member\u2019s now going to talk to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af2f23d5e2646308e2d5c3b676d8f2e\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6b081f611c94c1a8fa95f7d9c727fda\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He might get another chance to speak to the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7baf3739dcb481e98a1c8ff7866d510\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. So the point of what we\u2019re getting at today is that there\u2019s a lot we agree with in this bill. As my colleagues have alluded to, we are supportive of this bill and the intent of this bill. What we\u2019re talking about here is that we are on a matter of urgency in the House, we\u2019re on a matter of crisis in our economy where the public of New Zealand are facing, quite frankly, substantially more tough challenges, and here we are talking about plugging a $10 million hole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EI mention this because yesterday the Budget announced that we are in a substantial deficit for the next 10 years. We\u2019re looking at Budget deficits for the next 10 years or so, and public debt will be going well to the north of $54 billion. So my question and the issue that we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e44fccf9a714817885c10d0b404f605\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Second warning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a057907ae54b6ab1276fe60ab9e19a\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014today is around the relevance of bringing this bill into urgency, because, as I said, we agree with the substantial matters of this bill, but there is a time and a place to be discussing this. Should that time and place be the day after the most significant Budget of our lifetime\u2014and, no doubt, the most significant Budget in my career as an MP? And that is what the point of our discussion today is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ELet me talk about the bill, because that\u2019s what we\u2019re here to talk about. Of course, this is about import controls and permits for illegal importers of tobacco, and, again, credit to all those at the Customs Service. They do a fantastic job at this time, but what is the message that we\u2019re sending to the wider public at this time? When there\u2019s job losses, when the confidence of business is at an all-time record low, and when support for small and medium sized businesses is scant, here we are discussing, essentially, a bill that is going to be putting $10 million back on to the Government\u2019s books. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fbc04b56dae4cf4af34b38a81c75a9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When I stand up, the member sits down, and it shouldn\u2019t take me, I think, for the fourth time reminding the member to come to the bill, for him to come back to the bill. If he offends again, that\u2019s the end of the speech. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6729487d754ee490bcd85a691567f6\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: OK, Mr Speaker\u2014thank you very much. As I\u2019ve said, we agree with the substantial matters in this bill. It is important to, in fact, crack down on illegal importers. We\u2019re supportive of every aspect of this bill, but the thing is: why do this in urgency? That is the matter that I wish to discuss in this House today, when there are more substantial matters that I think the House should be discussing around the economic stimulus package and the recovery plan, and here we are discussing a bill that has a $10 million implication for the public of New Zealand and for the Government\u2019s coffers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa1a59e5a73411daf8e0359da919f9c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: How much? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17e80ff66a748e99fc7fb42f406ad78\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: $10 million. Ron Mark, the member opposite that just sat down, spoke about the total excise duties of tobacco in New Zealand. It\u2019s $2 billion. So if you divide $10 million back into $2 billion, that\u2019s the scant percent, or the really low percent, of the impact of this law on the Government\u2019s books at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo I know that we are supportive of this bill and I know that there are aspects of this that are important in making sure that Customs has the powers to regulate this black market activity. But what I\u2019m talking about here is that there\u2019s a time and a place, and is it necessary for the House to come into urgency and to take up the time of members of this House when there are substantially more important matters to be discussed? That is why I raised with you, Mr Speaker, the story of the family in my electorate who are struggling at the moment, because no one is talking to me about the importance of this bill at this time. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7ce4e6b0cf4768959cd379b5e3f5a6\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Except for these people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9b700cd7720418a9a4b37de48bc5ec8\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Except for these people. It is, quite frankly, disrespectful to the people of New Zealand at this time that we\u2019re here discussing a topic like this\u2014when we are happy to have this discussion\u2014but it is around the timing of that, and whether there are more important and substantial challenges and legislative matters that we would like to discuss. And there are, around the economic stimulus package that was announced yesterday, and there are more important topics around how we\u2019re going to recover out of this mess and how we\u2019re going to reduce the deficit. That\u2019s why we are raising the matters today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002282013223e86a47f39d2fe746b807c080\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282013223e86a47f39d2fe746b807c080\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And when I stand up, the member sits down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff6f2832520049289c29d410898965de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff6f2832520049289c29d410898965de\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I stand on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to put, on record, briefly, our position on the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill, this being the first reading, and our support for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI must say the Opposition is spending a heck of a lot of time talking about something they\u2019re saying they don\u2019t want to be talking about. The content of this legislation, of course, does two things, primarily. The first is allowing for stricter control of tobacco importation by requiring a permit or a licence prior to that importation. The second gives a kind of content or function to that mechanism by way of allowing customs to destroy tobacco on seizure, provided that they have first written to the importer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think what this bill fundamentally does is showcase the importance of meaningful regulation around a substance. We did have a member of the Opposition, the Hon Simon O\u2019Connor, speaking to how this Government is seeking to create greater regulation around tobacco. But he\u2014and I quote\u2014said that there is somehow a \u201Cglaring contradiction\u201D with regard to cannabis. And here I want to draw the opposing members\u2019 attention to the importance of what he has just highlighted, which is that regulation works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe different mechanisms of regulation\u2014many of which are actually highlighted in this legislation\u2014are, for example, education, particularly education around the public health implications of utilisation of a substance, whether that be tobacco or alcohol or otherwise; also around licensing and regulation of the supply chain, which this bill does; thirdly, around cessation support, which Minister Salesa spoke to; fourthly, around availability, which, notably, this bill does not impact in terms of the availability of tobacco for those who are purchasing at licensed retail outlets; fifthly, around advertising; and, sixthly, with regards to price, which you can change through mechanisms such as taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EInside a regulated model that we have for tobacco in this country, we are able to, as a Government, as a Parliament, pull levers which reduce the use\u2014particularly harmful use\u2014of that substance. And that is exactly the same proposal that is being put forward with regard to cannabis. It would just so happen that the Opposition prefers to continue empowering the black market. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u00224f6a6510acc24370a3ea083543492704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f6a6510acc24370a3ea083543492704\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, good morning. We\u2019re certainly not after supporting the black market. It is my first opportunity to speak after the lockdown. It\u2019s a pleasure to be back in the House. I am optimistic and encourage everyone to be optimistic and courageous going into the challenges that face all of us\u2014all members, everyone outside the House\u2014in difficult times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EAs a new MP myself, I have not experienced many opportunities to go through urgency myself, and I\u2019d like to preface my contribution by explaining to the public, many of whom may not be aware of what\u2019s happening here, that we are in a special process where specific bills are moved to be heard and carried through first, second, and third readings to their completion during that sitting of the House. The moving is done by a Minister, and information is provided to the House in consideration of that motion to hear specific bills in urgency. Urgency itself\u2014the word specifies a need for swift action, and that is why we are here. Over the past 24 hours, since yesterday, we have stood and debated bills. I stand to speak on the fourth of six bills, and that is the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI see that there has been, over this lockdown, a tremendous need for support for the public, and they have come with very many questions, and as we come out of the lockdown we find ourselves ready to leap forward and to embrace the day, and people are actually saying they\u2019re excited to go back to the office. I\u2019ve heard on TV today that people are excited to buy that first cinema ticket. Certainly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8625cb209584ce698f2a71581315a0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No smoking in cinemas, all right? Just get back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3d395e0c479481d8761a322011d3996\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, yes, thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, as my colleague the Hon Tim Macindoe has said, this is a serious bill with serious effects, the object of which is to prevent or to lower down, essentially\u2014to reduce the use of tobacco by making the costs of purchase very high through tax, and that is certainly sensible. The bill seeks to ensure that every person bringing in tobacco is permitted to do so, making sure that everyone who does so is identified and known. So that\u2019s a fantastic thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that the departmental report in respect of this bill shows that the smuggling of tobacco products and the importation of tobacco leaf and tobacco refuse to evade tax on tobacco products has grown rapidly in the past 12 to 18 months from a historically low base. Interceptions of cigarettes at the border have increased from 2018 to 2019 by 53 percent. So there is obviously a heightened attempt to avoid the tax and to import leaf and refuse so that cigarettes can be rolled in the country, avoiding the tax on the tobacco products. So there is a need for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EBut I then go to the last portion of my contribution, which says that while there certainly is a seriousness to the object of this bill, it comes at a time when we are in urgency, and my every emotion at coming to Parliament in the past 24 hours has been really to want to see how things can be turned around in a country that is facing a serious economic situation and where thousands of jobs are being lost. I sincerely, in humble observation of the list of bills that have been put on urgency, including this bill, have experienced a sort of a deflation for myself. I thought that this was not something that would help the number of jobs that have been lost and that would not help, really, the amount of money that this Government needs to keep the country moving forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also just include in this moment a comment, an observation, that the Rt Hon Winston Peters yesterday in a speech poked fun, with indignity, at the loss of jobs of members of this Parliament, when we are, just like everyone out there in greater New Zealand, working hard to sustain our families and to sustain the dignity of our own professional work. And I thought that that had no place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI end with a big thankyou to the health services and everyone who faced COVID face to face while we were at home and not working. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u002239fd5ef7b3c74a9f92d15adb6c598079\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239fd5ef7b3c74a9f92d15adb6c598079\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Mr Speaker. In my brief contribution on this bill, I\u2019ll make the following points. I was doing a bit of research and looking and found an article from Stuff from December last year where Customs national investigations manager Bruce Berry was quoted as saying that 95 percent of his fraud unit\u2019s time had been spent in 2019 investigating cigarette smuggling. I think that\u2019s a pretty telling statistic. We are certainly, this world, this country, facing an economic shock posed by the coronavirus, presenting challenges that haven\u2019t been seen since the Great Depression, and so it is absolutely important that there\u2019s a clear path through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003ECustoms, as do many other Government agencies, have an incredibly important role to play in ensuring that we are in the best place to get through this crisis. Customs, therefore, needs to be in good shape and focused. What this bill does is combat that particular issue, which is taking up 95 percent of that investigation unit\u2019s time, by combating tobacco smuggling and securing the Crown revenue collected from the taxes on tobacco. Another important statistic is that interceptions have increased by 352 percent between 2015 and 2019. It\u2019s wasting time and resources at Customs, it\u2019s undermining our system, and it\u2019s undermining the Government\u2019s goal of a smoke-free New Zealand by 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EIf the National Party had some coherence around their arguments, perhaps they could be taken more seriously, but on the one hand, their Customs spokesperson says it\u2019s an incredibly significant issue; on the other hand, it\u2019s making a mockery of going into urgency. Perhaps if they took shorter calls and backed the bill so that we could get Customs in a good place to play their role in this crisis, we could all get this bill finished and get back to the job at hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00224f59ef378b6040469c321929e312415c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f59ef378b6040469c321929e312415c\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014or Madam Speaker? Thank you very much, presiding officer of uncertain gender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThank you very much for the opportunity to contribute on the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill. This is the first time, given that Parliament would usually have sat on a Thursday in any case, and today represents the first day that we would have had the opportunity to be out and about in our electorates for many weeks, and here we are discussing this particular bill. It\u2019s a smokescreen. It\u2019s a pipedream. It\u2019s a plan on the back of a fag packet, and the justification is paper thin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s hard to avoid thinking that this is merely a measure to create more breathing room for the Government, and I suggest they start by turning over a new leaf, because they have created more eye-rolling than they have stopped hand-rolling by doing so. This Government knows a thing or two about importing substances from overseas that are dangerous to Kiwis\u2019 lungs. Nevertheless, the basic underlying intent of the bill, as you\u2019ve heard from others on this side of the House, we support, and as such we will vote for the bill at this stage and, I understand, subsequent ones. But, of course, we do note for the record our bemusement at the fact that it has gained such relative priority over urgent matters connected with the coronavirus, and, of course, the Budget that apparently was passed yesterday\u2014or began to be passed in debate yesterday. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f59ff54f328142b0a3fbbad26ab9160a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb8445bdd1b44fa192c18153483d39d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb8445bdd1b44fa192c18153483d39d2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand you missed a call, so is this a split call, or is this\u2014this is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00223829eaf0debf461d917f49461e5e6bbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223829eaf0debf461d917f49461e5e6bbd\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in opposition to this Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill. These are extraordinary times when the priority of the Government after a Budget promising to borrow $140 billion is to pass laws making it harder to get foreign investment into New Zealand for distressed companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2423b93d2424ef98829fd2ff6ab9e22\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have been watching the House and I know the Speaker has been very strict on making sure that we\u2019re talking to the bill in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb829c22a1440b588fcb2a18073adb7\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and I think it\u2019s reasonable that in the first few seconds of a speech, we set out some context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c20dff6beefd48a48d8d34b4ce34fec9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re now almost a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261c69b26340e44c5b9998fecd2eb77c3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The next bill was to register forest traders, and this one is to register tobacco importers. Why? Because people are smuggling tobacco into New Zealand. Well, the obvious problem is that if somebody is smuggling, they are already breaking the law. It\u2019s not obvious why putting more bureaucracy on to those who are following the law is going to affect those who\u2019ve clearly shown they\u2019re prepared to break it from the fact that they\u2019re smuggling at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s a wider problem here, and that is: why do we have a black market for tobacco? I borrow arguments from the Greens with respect to cannabis. The Green Party argument with cannabis is that prohibition and bureaucracy doesn\u2019t work and it leads to a black market. Prohibition of cannabis means that the black market and smuggling is worse than having a legal market. The Green Party says, with respect to cannabis, the right thing to do is to legalise it and let people sell it so that the black market goes out of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s interesting because the reason we\u2019re here today is that the Green Party and Labour and New Zealand First and National all support levels of taxation on tobacco that are as bad as prohibition for so many of the people who wish to consume it. So the Green Party says prohibition doesn\u2019t work on cannabis, but they are prepared to support prohibition-like levels of taxation on tobacco and then support a further measure to regulate tobacco importation that some people might say sounds eerily like the war on drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhy do we suddenly have war on drugs - like approaches to tobacco? Well, because for the last 10 years, this Parliament\u2014and it\u2019s been said, and it\u2019s true, by every party except ACT\u2014has supported putting up the tax on tobacco 10 percent every year. That\u2019s why people think it\u2019s worth smuggling. That\u2019s why we have a black market. That\u2019s why, ironically, even the Green Party is now engaging in a war on tobacco, trying to stamp out the black market their taxes have created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s not the real tragedy. The real tragedy is stories like one that I saw not so long ago in a supermarket. A seven-year-old girl with her mum at Countdown, and Mum was buying a very small tin of baked beans and a packet of cigarettes that cost $35. You can make assumptions about what was going on, but I could see it. That little girl knew that that $35 was dinner. Successive Parliaments have made people in New Zealand desperate, taken more and more money through tobacco tax out of the poorest households in this country. It has done almost nothing to reduce smoking rates. What it has done is driven the supply of tobacco underground. If this Parliament was serious about dealing with the black market in tobacco, it would take a leaf\u2014no pun\u2014from the Greens\u2019 book and reduce the prohibitive taxation that has necessitated these war on drugs - style controls. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022141c81e10f044ac2bce685e48d5126fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022141c81e10f044ac2bce685e48d5126fe\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, the previous two speakers, speaking about the issue with tobacco, just show that their heads are in a cloud of smoke\u2014to continue the pun of the previous speaker\u2014because this bill is a very simplified process of solving a problem. The very bureaucracy they are claiming it is creating is the very bureaucracy it is removing, and the previous Minister of Customs will be sitting there squirming very guiltily. He had the opportunity to do something about it when he was in power\u2014he didn\u2019t\u2014so no wonder he\u2019s mouthing off the way he is, and his colleagues. So feel very guilty, Mr Macindoe, and just feel relieved that someone is fixing up another one of your problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve also heard those opposite, many of whom are out-of-town MPs, concerned about this Budget. I can assure you\u2014one of the advantages of being a Wellington MP\u2014I got to go a Khandallah cafe full of people who may have been supporters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3bacae22874452ac07ff8993047d41\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt, but I\u2019ll repeat: we are talking about an excise bill, not the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0459b1f3f34766b2c401063af46300\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just reassuring those that may have been concerned that we should have been, perhaps, debating something more close to the Budget. I can reassure them, the good citizens of a Khandallah cafe, some of whom have in the past been supporters of the party opposite, were very, very happy\u2014all owners of small and medium enterprises\u2014very, very happy with the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4ac7ba4b344ae49baffbabd997b39b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could we talk about tobacco? Tobacco.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a88b5d0b504415da184ad7133c70346\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: But, Madam Speaker, I will return. The other thing that\u2019s important with matters to do with customs\u2014very important, when you are going to fix a problem, which this bill is doing\u2014is you don\u2019t give the crooks any more notice than they need, because if we put this through the full process, knowing this is coming, they will change their practices. This way will make sure that exactly what we are trying to achieve will be done, will be done quickly\u2014and, again, something that should have been fixed by the Minister of Customs in the previous administration; now another problem solved. So this is a very good piece of legislation. It does deserve urgency at this time to ensure that the crooks, the organised criminals who have now moved into this market, now won\u2019t be able to come up with another way of smuggling their product. I thoroughly recommend this bill to the House, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ac464bd1f597481a93048f6181eee762\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 119\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; New Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a09496818f084c399f88b57f43545a60\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002265003dcf04114eb2a059d54af0876042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265003dcf04114eb2a059d54af0876042\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces new import controls to combat smuggling and unlicensed manufacture of tobacco. Questions have been raised from the other side as to why we\u2019re doing this under urgency. The original plan for this particular legislation was to have it passed under Order in Council in March, but then COVID-19 happened, and that was not the path that we actually could take. However, one of the things that we know is that it is Customs officials at the border that help to ensure that our border is kept safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that was raised by the member Simon O\u2019Connor was, \u201CWhy not give more resources to Customs staff so that they can do this work?\u201D I can say that our Government did. Our Government invested $50.6 million in the Wellbeing Budget, and that was, essentially, to have more staff at the Customs end to ensure that they are dealing with illicit drugs. But what we actually saw\u2014and the Hon Tim Macindoe spoke about this when he gave his speech\u2014is that there was such a huge increase of illegal cigarettes coming through and tobacco leaf coming through, especially in the international mail centre, that even though we increased the staffing resources at Customs, it wasn\u2019t actually spent in what we originally intended for them to do, which was to focus on meth and illegal drugs coming through our borders. They were, instead, spending so much of their time in intercepting cigarettes and tobacco leaf that was coming through. That is why it is important to actually pass this legislation under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe other reason is that if we were to introduce this legislation in the normal way\u2014introduce it and then send it through to the select committee\u2014we might see what has happened in other jurisdictions, where you give the indication, and because it is mainly organised criminal groups that are using this route to smuggle cigarettes and tobacco products through they will, within that time, probably increase their illegal smuggling of cigarettes, and that would not be of any good to any of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ECan I also say that we also want to ensure that our Customs staff do not waste their time at the border dealing with cigarettes that are being sent through in this way. Also, the new seizure and destruction process that this bill introduces for tobacco and tobacco leaf will substantially reduce the costs of processing, as well as storing, illegal tobacco products and leaf that are coming through Customs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EWe know, as well, that in terms of our Smokefree 2025 goal of ensuring that we save people\u2019s lives, a report that was commissioned in 2018 that Ernst \u0026amp; Young wrote, one of the quotes that they said\u2014and this was actually into tobacco excise increase\u2014and I quote, \u201Cincreasing the price of tobacco continues to be the single most effective tool for reducing tobacco use.\u201D It also is worth noting that the last four excise increases for tobacco were all actually legislated for by the previous National Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis is a really good bill. It is one that should\u2019ve been introduced ages ago to actually ensure that we don\u2019t have that loophole where people are sending through cigarettes via the international mail centre. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaea84101fb5403383592490a1ca8c0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaea84101fb5403383592490a1ca8c0b\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E I want to agree with Minister Salesa, who\u2019s just taken her seat, that this should have been introduced a while back. I pointed out in the first reading, before I was somewhat rudely interrupted four times, the regulatory impact statement\u2014in other words, the Minister has had this bill since November last year. So I have to reiterate in the second reading speech, why do we have to do it under Budget urgency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI\u2019d love also at this stage, at the second reading of the bill, to reference the select committee report, the fact that we brought major importers of tobacco in. Obviously, we couldn\u2019t bring ipso facto the illegal people in, but would love to have done a select committee report, and I\u2019d like to reference it now. Oh, that\u2019s right; we don\u2019t have one. We\u2019re rushing this through the House. I want to point out too to the Minister, who has quite rightly\u2014and, look, I actually respect the Minister as a person and in her role. I think she does a good role in Customs. But she pointed out the extra money that was given to Customs\u2014that was the last Budget. This current Budget had not effectively given Customs any more money, and I\u2019m shocked, as we think about the primary vector for COVID being the border, that no more money\u2019s been done. In fact, we\u2019re wasting our time, if you will, or wasting this Parliament\u2019s time racing this through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EMy final point in this emotional second reading speech is to point out, as I did in the first reading, that we are looking at more and more people becoming unemployed. I just want to point out to the Minister that as we considered her Customs bill, another three to five New Zealanders have lost their jobs in the time it\u2019s taken me to share these words. And I personally think that this really is a Budget that\u2019s going up in smoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002236331c215bd4460ea4e4231913eae354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236331c215bd4460ea4e4231913eae354\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was hoping that the member might have run out of puff. I call Clare Curran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1824e347cb34e99af815163dc40b757\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283b4d1dd285a4d77a34f6e0203120796\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I called you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00222b79c79658fd4015a5784de1fc41fc04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b79c79658fd4015a5784de1fc41fc04\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014sorry, I didn\u2019t hear. Look, I just want to make a few more remarks on this bill. I heartily agreed with Ron Mark earlier in the first reading, who said that that this should\u2019ve been done 15 years ago. The Minister of Customs has set out the fact that this legislation was to be introduced in March but COVID-19 has impacted on that, as it has on all parts of New Zealanders\u2019 lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t see that anybody in this House could disagree that safe borders are critical to our current fight against COVID-19, that the sheer amount of time and energy that\u2019s being wasted on the work that needs to be done to seize illicit tobacco is wasting the time of our border officials, whether that\u2019s directly on the border, whether that\u2019s through the New Zealand post system, and that this\u2014again, counter to what for one member, the member for ACT, seems to be a constant theme that it\u2019s all about bureaucratic hurdles\u2014piece of legislation actually provides for a simplified seizure process. So it\u2019s a much simpler process that will actually make it easier to bring in these controls. This bill is about cracking down on illegal activity at our borders. It\u2019s not just about safe borders; it\u2019s about confidence in the safety of our borders, which is a really, really important thing at this time, and I do hope that the members across the House agree with that, that New Zealanders can feel confident about our safe borders. So, you know, with that, I heartily commend this bill to the House. Let\u2019s just get on and do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002201c672d4d90748c4b8f10b92909553fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201c672d4d90748c4b8f10b92909553fc\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, of course, all members of this House want to have confidence in the security of our borders. But the fact of the matter is that there are many ill-doers out there who constantly want to breach those borders. I mentioned in my first reading speech that, as a former Minister of Customs, I am acutely aware of not only the nature of this problem but also the increasing nature of this problem. It is, therefore, something that we do need to tackle with seriousness\u2014and everybody has been tackling it with seriousness. Where there has been incredulity and a degree of cynicism on this side of the House is in the fact that we are dealing with this particular measure under urgency and, in particular, with the suggestion that it\u2019s going to make a huge amount of difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EFor a former police officer and a former secretary of the New Zealand Police Association to stand up in this House and tell us that this bill will solve the problem, because suddenly smugglers and those career criminals are all going to stand in a queue and apply for an import licence\u2014beggars belief. It is absolutely gobsmackingly stupid, and I cannot believe that I heard such nonsense not only from Mr O\u2019Connor, but from some of his colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a658f93f11b84193a5a3e2b82ed262c2\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Greg O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d3b7c4a38d494c979a5dbbf0e39725\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Greg O\u2019Connor. He had a flick at me, so I\u2019m having a flick straight back. That was one of the most naive, misguided, stupid things I\u2019ve ever heard him say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIn the explanatory notes that I\u2019ve received about this bill, we\u2019re told that any importation without a permit or that is not in compliance with the conditions of the permit would be subject to forfeiture. That\u2019s great; that\u2019s absolutely as it should be. It\u2019s absolutely as it is, it\u2019s as it always has been. And it is exactly what the men and women\u2014those very fine servants of our nation who work for the New Zealand Customs Service\u2014do day in and day out, and they do it incredibly well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIf this bill will help, of course we support it. But the fact of the matter is, it will not slow the importation of illegal products across our borders. Drugs, tobacco, and other things that smugglers can make money out of will continue to come across. So for the Hon Clare Curran to talk about confidence in the security of our borders is pie in the sky stuff. We have a very good Customs Service, we have very good Ministry for Primary Industries officials who are doing great work, but there are a lot of people out there wanting to undermine that work and to breach our borders. So anything we can do to enable them to do that fine work has my full support, but the idea suddenly that we\u2019re going to reach nirvana as a result of this bill is absolute nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002275eda057b98240f4b532b5fc3f5184cb\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022134b7b9b4d06493aa2d9d8f760bbb625\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022134b7b9b4d06493aa2d9d8f760bbb625\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Quick point of order: could I just ask for your guidance? I\u2019m assuming we\u2019re going to have a very short committee stage. Will you be adopting the pattern that we\u2019ve seen in recent days of allowing questions to be asked, the Minister to respond, and to have that free flow, or are we back to the more standard five-minute speeches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002280d08b9b938d4c4da5cc0af44debb1de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280d08b9b938d4c4da5cc0af44debb1de\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: My recollection is that the Business Committee removed the limit on the four five-minute speeches only for the debate on the appropriation bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e97cae48fc440bb5eae827144eda6a\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: So we\u2019re back to a more normal pattern?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e72218172ec4c0692892a5e08ffd255\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: [Interruption] Oh, is that right? Oh, I beg your pardon. Yeah, so you can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4c5e1c816f94e7bb70999077b8dbe9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4c5e1c816f94e7bb70999077b8dbe9f\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I move that all parts of the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00229c234db2e4a6475692734d44a5f1172e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c234db2e4a6475692734d44a5f1172e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you actually seeking leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7e3eb46f1db43d3a3687363f5cfbcbc\u0022\u003EHon Jenny Salesa\u003C/span\u003E: Seeking leave; that\u2019s right, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e2fe9bf7c548ea8d79a57940a762ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There seems not to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229191c31f645446dea4eed93974d7a8f5\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, Schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002246244d585de04812838e26a4a851de16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246244d585de04812838e26a4a851de16\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E If I may, I would just like to ask a few questions because I think they\u2019re significant. I hope that the Minister might be able to deal with them as we go through. That\u2019s why I took my point of order to just seek clarification about the procedure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAt end of her speech in the first reading\u2014she spoke, obviously, moving the first reading, but at the end of her speech at that time, the Minister made the comment that she\u2019s confident this bill will deter smuggling of illicit tobacco. Now, that\u2019s clearly the whole purpose of this bill. And I do think it\u2019s important, therefore, that both this committee and the country as a whole have a very clear understanding of how she anticipates that that will occur. Because if we don\u2019t have that answer you\u2019d have to ask why on earth we\u2019re considering this bill at any stage, certainly under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI stress that I am supportive of it and I\u2019m certainly supportive of its objectives. But we need to hear from the Minister clearly how this particular bill will deter smuggling. I\u2019ve made the point before\u2014and I will continue to make it\u2014that career criminals and smugglers don\u2019t stand in an orderly queue and apply for import licences. They don\u2019t go through the permitting system that law-abiding people do. So unless we can be advised as to how it\u2019s going to work, it\u2019s hard to feel a great sense of confidence that it is going to work. So I\u2019d invite her to answer that question now if she wishes to. Otherwise, I\u2019ll move on and\u2014looks as if she\u2019s not going to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI have another question that I\u2019d like to ask. We\u2019re told that in the event of tobacco products being seized and destroyed in error by Customs, those who, effectively therefore, did have a permit to legally import tobacco will be entitled to compensation. Now, given the severity of the fiscal crisis this country faces at the moment, I don\u2019t think that any of us want to see a single dollar of taxpayers\u2019 money being wasted. And while we are probably only talking fairly small sums, nevertheless the idea that compensation might be paid is one that would cause concern if it shouldn\u2019t have happened. So the Minister needs to explain to the law-abiding, hardworking taxpayers of this country how they may have confidence that they won\u2019t be footing another bill for mistakes that are going to be made at a time when for the foreseeable future, perhaps even for the unforeseeable future, each and every one of us has an enormous debt to repay. We don\u2019t want to be wasting a dollar of taxpayers funding. I\u2019m keen to allow the Minister a chance to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224353f0321a1d4b7e8da2627d1f6b9d85\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019d have to sit down for her to stand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d45be2e7a52f40ff957ad4a7961af7f1\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u00228ff59bc0e4fe40099d461c19a145f9c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ff59bc0e4fe40099d461c19a145f9c8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Just to make sure\u2014because the Minister wasn\u2019t present when we\u2019ve been trialling this through the appropriations debate. So what we had was essentially a conversation, a bit like supplementary questions where a question could be asked of the Minister. You don\u2019t have a five minute speech, and the Minister can choose to answer that or collect a few questions. But it worked really well when the Minister answered\u2014just got up and answered it\u2014and you had a bit of a conversation about the bill. It\u2019s entirely up to the Minister. But it certainly was the reason that the sessional order was passed\u2014to allow that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002260f4066595e542b2a505876136d8def4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260f4066595e542b2a505876136d8def4\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E So the question about compensating for when cigarettes or tobacco leaf is taken and the person actually had a permit, and then for the taxpayer to compensate for that\u2014I have a lot of faith in our customs officials. I know that they will ensure, as much as they can, that they will only seize and destroy cigarettes and tobacco leaf that do not have a permit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EOn the issue of why we are so confident that this particular regime will address illegal cigarettes coming through in the international mail centre, well, they will actually be able to destroy these cigarettes in a much more efficient way. I do not expect that organised criminals, who we know are the main people that are using this way of smuggling cigarettes into New Zealand, will suddenly go and get a permit to be able to do the illegal smuggling of cigarettes over to New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EHowever, the fines and the penalties that this particular legislation has: so for an individual, the maximum penalty is $5,000; for a body corporate, the maximum penalty is $25,000 for sending through cigarettes illegally in this way. This may not be the nirvana of dealing with this particular issue, but it is one way of dealing with it, because we are seeing so much of an increase of cigarettes coming through. When you look at the difference between just 2016 and 2019, at the huge number of cigarettes coming through\u2014over 352 percent increase of cigarettes being sent through the mail\u2014we\u2019ve got to actually come through with legislation to stop that. When I said earlier on that this is something that should have been done much earlier on, I wasn\u2019t just referring to our particular Government; I was referring, actually, to the honourable Minister Tim Macindoe and the National Party. When they were in Government\u2014nine years\u2014they could have done something to address this issue. We are doing it now, and this is a good bill to ensure that we stop helping or stop the illegal importation of cigarettes through the international mail centre, because we know there is a black market, and we know we must address organised criminals from doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00227242d5967c544e9d88e46f0ffe69aca3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227242d5967c544e9d88e46f0ffe69aca3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E It is a little bit disingenuous of the current Minister, Jenny Salesa, to suggest that this was a problem of constant duration through the nine years of the previous Government. It was not. The rate of importation, or smuggling, of illicit tobacco increased significantly in recent years\u2014yes, towards the end of our time in Government\u2014and it has continued to do so. It certainly wasn\u2019t the problem that we now know a decade ago. And so it\u2019s wrong for the Minister to suggest that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ECould I just pick up on the comment that she made that this will enable a much more efficient destruction of the illicit tobacco. I\u2019d be interested in her description as to how that will occur, and what is inefficient about the destruction now, and also\u2014particularly with the climate change Minister here\u2014I\u2019d be interested to know will we suddenly see career criminals and smugglers watching a great bonfire of illicit tobacco, because I don\u2019t think the climate change Minister would want to see the emissions that would cause. So how does the destruction occur\u2014how will it occur? My hope, because I\u2019m actually a keen recycler and composter, is that the products will be composted or mulched\u2014mulched and then composted might be good\u2014but in a way that is environmentally safe. I would be interested to hear her answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00224a690b64504842699ba1551b1f0efd7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a690b64504842699ba1551b1f0efd7e\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E When I referred to seizing cigarettes and tobacco leaf and destroying it right away, what I meant was\u2014and I used an example in my first speech where, in just a couple of weeks in August of last year, 2,086 packets of cigarettes were seized. And just with the 2,086 packets of cigarettes, Customs actually spent a total of 90 days\u201490 days\u2014to record seizing the tobacco, as well as storing it. And then, because we allow people to be able to claim, to be able to come through, and even appeal the decision of the Customs chief executive officer, this would, basically, mean that Customs does not have to do that\u2014it doesn\u2019t have to spend that much time for a period of two weeks of this many cigarettes coming through the international mail centre, so that Customs officers can get on with ensuring that other illicit drugs like meth don\u2019t come through the border, and also that they can make sure that as we deal with COVID-19\u2014because they are at the forefront of dealing with COVID-19\u2014they focus their energies on that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, Schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBill reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294b091e6f9a84404b29932ff780c7368\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00221f0fe136f8ee4dd6935f216b17781726\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f0fe136f8ee4dd6935f216b17781726\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to come to the third reading of the Customs and Excise (Tobacco) Amendment Bill. This bill directly responds to a rapidly growing threat facing New Zealand. The smuggling and unlicensed manufacture of tobacco products is putting at risk approximately $2 billion a year of Crown revenue and the health of many New Zealanders. The excise tax on cigarettes and other tobacco products has been a key tool in reducing the number of New Zealanders who smoke and to save lives by reducing smoking rates has been a goal of all Governments over the last 10 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAs we all know, smoking has a direct link to lung cancer, which is a hideous disease that destroys too many of our loved ones. Smoking is also a serious risk factor in a number of chronic diseases. We, as a country, can neither afford the pain it afflicts nor the economic cost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESmuggled and illicitly manufactured tobacco evades excise tax. Not only does this reduce Crown revenue but it also affects the way that Government provides services. Further, smuggled and illicit manufactured tobacco may not meet the Government\u2019s plain packaging requirements or carry health warnings. And all of this encourages more smoking directly, undermining our goal for Smokefree 2025. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EAs I set out in my first reading speech, tobacco smuggling is currently low risk and highly profitable, thus feeding and strengthening the organised criminal groups involved. I am resolved to minimise the involvement of organised crime in the New Zealand economy and society generally. This is another reason why I\u2019m determined to see this bill passed as quickly as possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThis bill will impose import controls and give customs streamlined processes designed to address the very particular nature of tobacco smuggling, especially through the mail. The provisions in this bill will still enable legitimate imports of tobacco in all of its forms, but it will require importers to get a permit and ban importation through the postal mail system. A permit system will allow customs to undertake due diligence on tobacco importers. Preventing import in the mail is vital to combating tobacco smuggling. Criminal groups are well aware that the mail system aids anonymity and that customs does not receive information on mail parcels prior to import as it does for other imports. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not expecting that smugglers will stop sending hidden and mis-described tobacco through the mail just because we introduce a permit system. That is why the bill also provides for a bespoke seizure and destruction process to apply to tobacco that will inevitably still be sent through the mail. That process will only apply to tobacco and tobacco leaf, which will reduce storage, time, and costs. This will also free up customs staffing resources to focus on protecting New Zealand from other dangerous or illegal imports like meth and other illicit drugs and offensive weapons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EBut preventing smuggling and the illegal manufacture of excise tobacco is only part of the story. We need to do this while also protecting the right to trade and manufacture without incurring undue costs or barriers. This bill achieves both objectives without needing to make any free trade-offs. People will still be able to legitimately import tobacco through fast freight courier systems as bulk sea cargo. Permits will be free and the process for getting one will be simple. Existing legitimate importers will be issued their first permit automatically for the period of a year or until their manufacturing licence needs to be renewed. No one buying legitimate product will notice any change as the permit system will have no impact on the availability or the price of legitimate tobacco product. International travellers, when such travel once again becomes possible, will experience no change either. The current duty-free tobacco allowance will continue as it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI hope that as I\u2019ve shepherded this bill through the House, I\u2019ve been able to convey the absolute urgent need for new tobacco specific input controls and a new tobacco seizure and destruction process. As I mentioned in my first reading speech, with this bill having highlighted how tobacco imports are undermining the system, it is very important to take urgent and swift action so that there is limited opportunity for it to get worse, especially in relation to tobacco leaf, because even during alert levels 4 and 3, tobacco smuggling has continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe combination of excise and revenue evasion involved with organised crime, money-laundering, and circumventing the smoke-free controls makes urgent action necessary. Without this change, I fear that the gains New Zealand has made in battling tobacco addiction and chronic disease will be lost and organised crime will gain a profitable economic base from which they can expand their activities. I am sure that you share my determination to see that this is addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EI commend this bill and its final reading to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u002260e5050a4d7b496bae4e2067b8f00cdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260e5050a4d7b496bae4e2067b8f00cdd\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, that\u2019s jolly decent of you. This will be a very short contribution\u2014really, it\u2019s just to continue to put National\u2019s, if you will, protest around process. We find it incomprehensible that we have to be rushing this through Parliament under Budget urgency. I want to stress again for the record that this bill, according to the regulatory impact statement, has, effectively, been ready since November last year, and why it needs to be rushed through now is beyond me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI think, also, while we support the intention of the bill and we support what the Minister of Customs is saying, the big players already have effective import licences. No illegal importer is going to seek said licence, even if it\u2019s free, and while we are also, rightly, changing the way that someone, if you will, can appeal the seizure of their illegal goods, I would put good money\u2014see how we\u2019re switching from smoking to gambling here\u2014on the fact that no illegal importer is going to challenge customs for having seized their tobacco.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo, again, we support this bill, but it\u2019s just nonsensical that the Government, in front of the greatest crisis in a hundred years, has decided a tweak to the Customs and Excise Act is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022688ef92820be4f15a85695021dd13a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022688ef92820be4f15a85695021dd13a60\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019m just going to take a quick call on behalf of New Zealand First. New Zealand First supports the bill. We support the bill because we actually want to support those businesses who legally sell cigarettes right now, who are being undermined, whose business is being undermined by people bringing the product into the country illegally and selling it on the black market. So this is about New Zealand First supporting legal businesses and their products and their ability to make a profit legally in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on something that the Hon Tim Macindoe said about the fact that he took exception to Minister Salesa saying that the problem of smuggling had been increasing for a long period of time. He said that in the last year of the previous Government it had been increasing and it had continued to increase during this term of Government. I take him at his word; I\u2019m not disputing that at all. What New Zealand First would say is that that clearly points out that the piece of legislation that the National Party introduced that required the Government to increase excise tax every year, knowing that it did not reduce the number of smokers, knowing that it hit the pockets of the poorest members of our community\u2014knowing that it did those things, the National Government passed a piece of legislation in their term that would have required a new Government to come back and overturn those price increases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First feels so strongly about the fact that the increases in excise that were placed upon some of the poorest New Zealanders\u2014that does not do what we asked it to do. That does not take the $2 billion that the Crown gets and puts it into prevention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a023c91cbcdd4d5f80af01f90c2185c8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Well, we\u2019ll just come to the bill, because everyone else has\u2014so we\u2019ll just come to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ecb359447f7466d98551dfef05a1eeb\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we used\u2014absolutely\u2014our agree-to-disagree powers inside of Cabinet around those changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo we support this because we\u2019re supporting legal businesses; legal businesses who have the right to sell tobacco even at the incredibly high price that the previous Government made sure that New Zealanders would have to pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd30ca2845c7426ab182376e39ea0a5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd30ca2845c7426ab182376e39ea0a5c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I wasn\u2019t going to take another call, and this one will be a very quick one, but I have to answer a couple of comments that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230940e4ccfa948c3a91dc66ed2525de7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I hope it\u2019s about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c33bae7f364f939e0e0f73db803451\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely about the bill. She has suggested that\u2014well, first of all she said that I mentioned the last year of our time in Government. I talked about the last few years, but there had quite clearly been a significant\u2014I do hope the cameras are not on me at the moment, Madam Speaker!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6ee7450bf14667baabc387f3f50914\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Or me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b940369638414cebbc37c4b4aa5238dc\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: This is unbelievable. Good Lord, no. The member for Hutt South has just entered into the House with hair extensions and I have been completely thrown off. Is this the member for Hutt South?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t say \u201Cyear\u201D, Ms Martin; I said \u201Cyears\u201D. But it is absolutely right that the importation of illegal tobacco has increased sharply in recent years, and, yes, it can be linked to the excise increases of recent years, which almost all parties in the House have supported, except for New Zealand First. Her suggestion that that particular policy hasn\u2019t helped drive down smoking rates in New Zealand is absolutely confronted by the evidence. Of course it has. We\u2019re all\u2014or, I think, almost all of us are\u2014firmly committed to the Smokefree Aotearoa policy. We know that\u2019s in the best interests of the health of our citizens, and increased prices through excise taxes have helped to achieve that. Yes, there have been some unfortunate consequences, including a tax on dairies and all the rest of it, and that is to be regretted, but for her to suggest that it hasn\u2019t had that health impact is absolute nonsense, and she knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b3781373c8c48069f61aca727ffb31a\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209a965a8e92c4506895cd0488bc19d37\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002273c6ca6e1cf846fcb97243926b706330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c6ca6e1cf846fcb97243926b706330\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOne of the provisions in this year\u2019s Budget\u2014actually, as part of the COVID recovery and response programme\u2014is to improve the operation of the Family Court. Right now, we know there is a major problem: there is a significant backlog. We know that, since the reforms from the previous Government in 2014 of the Family Court, the number of without notice applications in Care of Children Act cases has gone from 30 percent of those applications to the court to now 70 percent. The changes in 2014 removed the right of a parent who\u2019s going to the Family Court for a Care of Children Act case to have legal advice and assistance from the outset, but with one exception, and that is that you make a without notice application. In order to make a without notice application, you have to make allegations of a certain quality and kind to qualify for that. So that set of reforms in 2014 set up an incentive for parties to characterise their allegations against their former spouse or partner with whom they are separating, in order to get access to that legal advice and, at least, to legal aid for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill makes changes to two pieces of legislation. One is the Legal Services Act, which is the Act that governs the awarding of legal aid. It reinstates the right to legal aid for Family Court cases. The second is the Care of Children Act, which also puts a limitation on the right to legal aid\u2014or, at least, legal representation\u2014for those cases and reinstates the status quo ante, as at 2014, prior to the current statutory provisions being enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt was interesting\u2014if I was at my most charitable, and I am\u2014that there were honourable objectives with the changes that the previous Government sought, and that is they were concerned about the rise of legal aid and concerned about the delays in the court. Indeed, the Hon Judith Collins, in her third reading speech, noted the cost of operating the Family Court was increasing at an unstainable rate, and then she said that the changes that were being enacted then, and have been in place since 2014, mean that parties \u201Cwill be supported to navigate the court system independently for straightforward matters. Improved information services, a simplified three-track court system, and easy-to-use forms will be introduced.\u201D In fact, the three-track court system has complicated things, and there were never easy-to-use forms; in fact, they\u2019ve been revised and changed multiple times to try and make them easier, but they have become complicated and convoluted. The Hon Judith Collins said also at the time, \u201Cthis legislation will reduce the stress on families and children because disputes will be settled more quickly and fewer cases will end up in court.\u201D The reality is that the waiting time for the disposal of Care of Children Act cases has gone from, roughly, around 230 days at the time of the 2014 reforms to now 305 days on average. So it hasn\u2019t had the intended effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe overwhelming feedback I get talking to parents who\u2019ve been through the process, talking to the lawyers who have represented some of them, talking to others involved in the court, and through the correspondence that I\u2014and, I suspect, pretty much every MP\u2014have received is that that inability to get access to legal advice from the outset, to know what to expect, and to know what their respective rights are has been a big impediment to the more efficacious and efficient disposal of those cases. So this turns that around. There is a Budget amount that goes with it. The additional cost of the legal aid over a four-year period is just under $25 million. That tells you something too, because the expected saving of legal aid, when the reforms were put through originally, was meant to be considerably greater than that, but the reality is, with now 70 percent of Care of Children Act cases being without notice applications, legal aid has continued to be spent, but, actually, it\u2019s not well spent, because the parties then just get into more of a log jam, it becomes more complicated, and the cost still is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo this will be better. Most importantly, it will be better for children, who ought to have certainty and stability about their living arrangements as soon as possible after mum and dad have separated. At the moment, the legal arrangements prevent that from happening. So this bill enables changes to happen. It\u2019s accompanied by some additional spending not only of legal aid but also in having additional personnel in the Family Court registries to assist parties in cases to get access to not only the legal advice they need but, actually, the welfare support and other support that they need to navigate the process. There\u2019s also a Budget amount to increase the payments to lawyers for children. There are some fantastic lawyers for children, but you get some basket cases as well, and we need to be doing everything we can to step up the quality of those who are meant to be the voice piece for children in these proceedings. It is an obligation on the State under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and we fully intend to discharge our duties and obligations under that convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo this bill does those things. They\u2019re very simple changes, but they are profound in their impact. And, on that basis, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbaf86eca76d4aa9bec6717dd1b8cba9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbaf86eca76d4aa9bec6717dd1b8cba9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Rodney):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, can I just put on record that we feel that, while we\u2019re under Budget urgency, in what has been one of the most significant Budgets, certainly in recent history for New Zealand\u2014when Kiwis are emerging from a level 4 and level 3 lockdown and trying to actually catch up and understand what has happened to our country in the last eight weeks, with a thousand people going on the dole daily\u2014we just do not feel that it\u2019s appropriate to bring this sort of legislation in with a truncated process under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to speak a little bit about the history of this. There were Family Court reforms done back in 2014. The intent of repealing this part of that reform was quite simply this: it was to try and keep kids out of the Family Court, and it was to give parents the ability to act in the best interests of the children and to go into mediation and not to have to require lawyers and entrenched positions to start to develop. It\u2019s a shame that the intent of those law changes weren\u2019t actually embraced by the system itself. In some ways, it was subverted by the opportunity to put these without notice applications to the judge. Of course, the judge still retained the discretion as to whether or not to process those without notice applications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EAnd now we\u2019re in a situation where we\u2019ve got one of the biggest fights in our lives as a nation, in terms of our economic recovery, and we\u2019re trying to do that quickly, with as much focus as possible, and where it\u2019s going to need a large amount of financial commitment from the Government. We\u2019ve got a bill that\u2019s diverting $25 million back into the Family Court system instead of actually just trying to make the system work, keep children out of court, allow the parents to use that mediation. Instead, now we\u2019re resetting and going back to where we\u2019ll say, \u201CWe need to pump $25 million back into our justice system to allow them to have access to legal aid.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI can tell you now: I\u2019m not someone that has always had enormous confidence in our legal aid system, because, unfortunately, when you\u2019ve got a Government-funded system, it is open to abuse; it is open to not being used and applied properly. So when there\u2019s a system change like this, you would hope that the system would respond to it and try and make it work the best way possible. In this case, sadly, it doesn\u2019t appear to have been the case. I think that there\u2019s always opportunities to be able to make tweaks and changes in terms of when any legislation is passed like this, but I am disappointed to see that this is, basically, a full reversal of what was a good policy with good intent, and that was fundamentally to keep children out of our court system. I\u2019m not confident that $25 million will even cover this. I think that you\u2019re going to see, basically, that option to mediate almost removed immediately as our legal system moves to respond and re-engage again with the money that\u2019s being provided through the legal aid system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo we just wanted to put on record that we don\u2019t support this legislation for two reasons. One is that we don\u2019t think that it should be used under Budget urgency. This actually should have gone through a full, proper process and be looked at and scrutinised properly. And, secondly, I think there\u2019s going to be a perverse outcome, where, as a country, every dollar is going to matter in terms of directed, very targeted support around our economic recovery. Instead, we\u2019re putting money back into a system whereby the only ones that are really going to benefit are the lawyers accessing the legal aid process, and we\u2019re going to put kids straight back into court again. So, unfortunately, we can\u2019t support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae06933cc1e445dfa9fd873cfe813298\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae06933cc1e445dfa9fd873cfe813298\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Speaker. Just a few comments about this bill, which is to allow, thankfully, legal representation in all proceedings under the Care of Children Act, and relates directly to a Budget provision of nearly $25 million over four years, and is about restoring the rights to people to have access to legal advice from the very beginning of a Family Court process for parents and wh\u0101nau in care of children disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThe thing that really stood out for me about the inequity in this is when, under Judith Collins\u2019 reign as justice Minister, the previous National Government\u2014and I use the word \u201Creign\u201D deliberately\u2014removed, for fiscal reasons, the right to make use of legal representation and legal aid at the early stages of on-notice Care of Children Act proceedings of children if parents so choose. That removal of legal representation also created an incentive for parties to file applications without notice, because that meant that they could obtain a lawyer. Those applications were intended to provide a faster response in certain cases. The result was that those without-notice applications rose from 30 percent to 70 percent of Care of Children Act applications, which placed huge pressure on parents, the Family Court system, and, most of all, children. I had some experience of that myself personally, which I won\u2019t go into, but can I just say\u2014huge pressure within that system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003EThankfully, we have a Minister who has announced measures as part of this Budget, which are more than this, which will lead to more legislation, more equity within the court system, and, most importantly\u2014and this is why this is urgent and important\u2014will protect our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022665f59b5eefa417f8c8aa4b55dbdeb74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022665f59b5eefa417f8c8aa4b55dbdeb74\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Can I just first open by saying that I think Chris Bishop looks fantastic today. I think he\u2019s an exceptionally good-looking man, and his new presentation merely enhances what we already knew. I\u2019m now going to move on to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to take a short call on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the bill. I do have to say how incredibly disappointed I am by the Opposition\u2019s decision to not support the legislation. As the party of the day that actually created a Minister for Children and who understood and set in place legislation to better protect and better support those children who find themselves inside of families that are not working well\u2014that was the National Party, that was the Hon Anne Tolley who had that vision and created the Ministry for Vulnerable Children and the Minister for Children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThe Hon Judith Collins, I believe, did what she did with regard to the changes to the Family Court because she believed they would work well for children. They have not. They have not worked well for children. And, when you speak to children, and the process that has been put into place, you would know that it has not worked. Sometimes we have to admit we got it wrong. Sometimes we have to admit that it\u2019s not the system; that it\u2019s the human beings inside the system. It\u2019s a highly emotional time for families to go to Family Court. And, yes, we ask our parents to put their children first, but human beings are human beings, and there are moments when the adults cannot\u2014do not\u2014act like adults and the children get caught in the middle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI am exceptionally disappointed by the National Party saying that they cannot support this because\u2014and I\u2019m going to be a little bit gracious\u2014they believe that it\u2019s the system that has not changed enough that has created the problem for the children. What relevance $25 million has got when we\u2019re talking about our children, I do not know. I cannot think a better place to spend every single dollar we have in this country if not upon our children who find themselves in a situation where their mother and their father or whoever is caring for them are now tearing each other apart and need the court to intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m asking the National Party to reconsider. I know it\u2019s a hard thing to do, but I\u2019ve seen it done. I\u2019m asking them to reconsider as this bill goes through. I understand it\u2019s going through quickly, but let\u2019s not take away from the intent of the Hon Judith Collins\u2014let\u2019s not take away from the intent. Let\u2019s not make it about a slanging match. But let\u2019s make this about the fact that it was a good idea that didn\u2019t work. Let\u2019s just say that, and that we have to undo it because the children\u2014we\u2019ve heard how it is affecting them. I can tell you the consequences that it has on the workload of Oranga Tamariki. I\u2019m asking the National Party to reconsider their vote, but New Zealand First will support the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00225953289895fc45bfb89751305c354e2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225953289895fc45bfb89751305c354e2e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Look, I hear the Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020cde3555db4aeaabaef872b1d816b6\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it was Jordan Luck!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a431785e8dc4c41a6114bf5cbd94511\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Great singer. Sadly not. I hear the Hon Tracey Martin\u2019s comments, and I thank the Minister for her remarks in the House, not just for her compliments on my new do but also her remarks, I suppose, exorting the National Party to support this legislation. We won\u2019t be doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe first point to make is that the National Party is not opposed to sensible reform in this area, and I hear what the Minister says about this being a very tricky area, being emotionally complex and difficult for families to deal with, and, actually, the history of the reform in this area, over multiple Parliaments, actually, not just in this Parliament and the previous Parliament but going back through the 1990s, is of constant change, and that\u2019s just a fact of life. The Parliament, I think, has struggled to find the appropriate legal regime to enable people to cope with family break-ups and the care of children and all of the emotional problems that that brings, or emotional baggage that that creates, in a way that is suitable for families but also for children. No Parliament, or no Government, can ever say that it\u2019s got it right, and probably they never will be able to say that because of the nature of the area. But I think everyone approaches these things in good faith. The Minister of Justice in the last Parliament, the Hon Judith Collins, and then, latterly, the Hon Amy Adams certainly did that, and I know that the Minister Tracey Martin and the Minister of Justice, Andrew Little, are approaching things in the same way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo let me just say at the start that the National Party is not opposed to sensible reform in this area, but the reason we are opposing this bill is that we do not believe, firstly, the case has been made for change, and certainly not\u2014and this more important point\u2014with this process. And I just ask three questions to the House, in my contribution, that I think the Government members speaking on this legislation need to answer. The first question is: what is urgent about this legislation? We\u2019re in urgency. It\u2019s a Friday, and it\u2019s just ticked over 12 o\u2019clock. What is so urgent about this legislation that the House has to sit in urgency to consider it? And members might say, \u201CWell, you know, it\u2019s very important we look after our children and give effect to the reforms that the Government wants to adopt.\u201D But this has been something that\u2019s been on the Government\u2019s work programme for the last two and a bit years since the election. We\u2019ve had the independent review, the independent panel, and we\u2019ve had the recommendations. The Hon Andrew Little was sceptical in Opposition. So I accept that the Government wants to advance these changes. But what is urgent about it today, in this week in May 2020? I invite Government members to explain exactly what that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn terms of urgency, the current Government members used to say when the situation was reversed in the last Parliament and National was in Government, \u201CWhat\u2019s the rush? Where\u2019s the haste? What\u2019s the point? Why are we doing this so quickly?\u201D And it\u2019s not clear to me, and it\u2019s not clear to my colleagues on this side, what is urgent about this legislation. Why could this not have been advanced in the last 2\u00BD years, or at least last year or so, or indeed when the House returns next week? This, to me, looks suspiciously like the Government using the cloak of the Budget to advance legislation. And I\u2019m not so cynical as to say that Governments don\u2019t do that, but they need a good reason to do that. And it\u2019s not clear to me that this is urgent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMy second point is: why no select committee process? Why no select committee process? We\u2019re going through all stages. We\u2019re going to wind up this afternoon, and tomorrow it will be law\u2014or perhaps next Monday when the executive council sits and the Governor-General signs it into law. Why no select committee process? The Hon Tracey Martin actually, I think, undermined her argument in her contribution by quite rightly making the point that this is a very common\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246f5a7f10cb64f80a442c84f63c1b8f9\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: By admiring your hairstyle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222798c98e6dcd40a0bd9464b3fcf45ce3\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she admired my hairstyle\u2014business in the front, party in the back, Mr Macindoe, as you know. I know that Kieran McAnulty over there from the Wairarapa knows. This will be very popular in his neck of the woods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo why no select committee process? The Hon Tracey Martin made a very good point, which is that this is a tricky area. It\u2019s complex, and this is precisely, I put it to the House, the sort of area, the sort of reform, that you send to a committee to make sure you get it right. And I\u2019ve got to tell you, you know, lawyers are pretty, you know\u2014very interested. I was going to say they\u2019re pretty concerned. The views will vary, but they\u2019re pretty interested in this area. And this is precisely the sort of area of law that the Law Society and the family law section of the Law Society and others who practise in this field will want to submit on at the select committee, as well as those involved in mediation and negotiation and those fields. That\u2019s precisely the sort of law reform they will want to submit on\u2014and even for just a short period of time. I\u2019m not someone who thinks that we need the full four or six months all the time. Sometimes it\u2019s not a particularly big piece of reform. This, I understand, is the first stage, but sometimes you can send things for a wee amount of time. But to not send it to a select committee at all is, I think, something we need an explanation for, as to why that is. So far, we haven\u2019t had any. It was never mentioned in the Minister\u2019s speech, and it certainly wasn\u2019t mentioned in Minister Tracey Martin\u2019s speech. Why no select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnd the third point: why in the Budget? Why are we doing this under Budget urgency? So why under urgency altogether? Why no select committee? And why are we here on a Friday at Parliament putting this through all stages, after\u2014the Minister of Finance\u2019s own words\u2014the biggest Budget in a generation, with a $50 billion fund for the Government to spend as we respond to COVID? We\u2019re here on Friday afternoon putting through Family Court law reforms\u2014they may be worthy; they may be not, but you\u2019ve got to say it\u2019s a little bit disjunctive with the sense of crisis around the economy. We\u2019re making some changes to tobacco excise, and we\u2019re making sure that the Remuneration Authority can cut our pay, and we\u2019ve got some rinky-dink forestry scheme. That\u2019s what the Government is putting us into urgency for. And you\u2019ve got to wonder\u2014I just put it to the House that the sense of priorities is a bit odd. It is a bit strange, and I think New Zealanders will judge the Government for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re looking for answers to three questions. Why is this urgent, why is it not going to a select committee, and why is it being used as part of Budget urgency? And, until we get satisfactory answers to those questions, the National Party will be opposing it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a10c6238ade3456db2a28eed3bb1e6df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a10c6238ade3456db2a28eed3bb1e6df\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. The Green Party is supporting this bill. It makes relatively small changes but they have large implications, and that is to reinstate legal representation in the early stages of the Care of Children Act proceedings with legal aid for eligible parties. My understanding is it\u2019s going through as part of the Budget because there are concomitant Budget implications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the previous National Government, under the direction of then justice Minister Judith Collins, removed for fiscal reasons the right to make use of legal representation and legal aid in the early stages of on notice Care of Children Act proceedings if parents so choose. The result of the removal of legal representation and legal aid has restricted parties\u2019 access to justice, particularly low-income parents and wh\u0101nau. That\u2019s meant longer resolution times for care of children disputes, parents and children being left in limbo for extended periods of time, and there are currently around 16,000 children subject to the Care of Children Act proceedings in the Family Court each year. So this really does affect a large number of children. This change, which the Green Party supports because it provides proper access to the Family Court, is important so that people can deal with family issues such as domestic violence, childcare, and relationship property. The consequences of reduced access have been that more parties have had to deal with an expensive and cumbersome family disputes resolution process before they could access the court, and may not have had a right to legal representation for some types of hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party is supporting this. I think it\u2019ll be a positive change, and it\u2019s one that needs to happen pretty quickly for the sake of those 16,000 children that have been left in limbo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00222ba68669a12540d89e8c652a3b28eb93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ba68669a12540d89e8c652a3b28eb93\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker and to members of the Government and members in the House. As is well-known, National is opposing this bill, but I stand as a member of Parliament\u2014probably the only member of Parliament, actually\u2014who\u2019s worked and given a lifetime of service in the Family Court, advocating for and representing children, their parents, and the family members. I\u2019ve been counsel who\u2019s also worked in Child, Youth and Family, now Oranga Tamariki, having given service there for 10 years as a lawyer. I know the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve given a lifetime of service working and advocating in the Family Court, advocating for our vulnerable, and what tends to get overlooked is the fact that the children\u2014and this amendment is about the Care of Children Act. We\u2019ve heard the Minister for Children talk about the children. I have spent a lifetime as a lawyer advocating and representing the interests of the children in Family Court proceedings. I am disappointed that this bill is being rushed through. I am disappointed for the children and for the people who rely on the Family Court to provide a quality service. I am disappointed because, as counsel who knows the system more thoroughly than anybody else in this House, in the Government, or in Parliament\u2014just having this brought to my attention in the last 24 hours\u2014I think it is regrettable that this is being rushed through. Our children deserve better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIn the short time that I had to prepare notes in relation to this\u2014they\u2019re here, but they\u2019re a blur\u2014I\u2019m now speaking as a professional person, having given and dedicated my lifetime of service for our children. Minister Little, I heard you mention to the House that the system will be improved\u2014I know the system; I know how it works\u2014and that applications were made on a without notice basis because lawyers weren\u2019t made available. If I and others had been given the time for this to go before a select committee, this bill, this amendment, could be vastly improved. From the documents that I\u2019ve read, there has been no consideration factored into about what the philosophy of the Family Court is. It is about win-win. Advocacy of many lawyers who come into the Family Court jurisdiction\u2014and I have practised in the criminal court jurisdiction\u2014is about a win-lose for the parties, for the adults, and the child often gets left and forgotten in relation to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI have been counsel who has facilitated pre-settlement conferences\u2014mediation conferences\u2014before proceedings get into the court, and, as lawyer for child, I have also facilitated those conferences where parties may not have had legal counsel. That was my role. That was my duty, not only to the court but to the children. So what I\u2019m putting to the House\u2014and this is a done deal, and, sadly and regrettably, the ones who are getting done over here are the children and the Family Court system, because it could well have been vastly improved, Minister. What I put to the House, having worked in the criminal court jurisdiction, is that we have there the options of what\u2019s called duty lawyers to help facilitate the system and the process, and the administration of law and people\u2019s access to law. The amendment in this bill is about the adults\u2019 and the parties\u2019 entitlement to legal representation. Well, actually, the focus and the emphasis should be on adults\u2019 responsibilities in terms of children\u2019s welfare and best interests, and I know this full well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI see also on the papers that I had limited opportunity and time to read through the independent panel advisers, a very dear professional colleague, now Judge La-Verne King, who\u2014La-Verne and I advocated in the Family Court, in the Youth Court, in the criminal courts, and in the mental health courts. Judge King, as she is now, was an adviser to the Government by way of this panel. Now, I\u2019m sure that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b947386a3ffb4ab1880179168efab649\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: She was on the panel. She was a panel member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227da6888b669746819d831137e386fc21\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO\u003C/span\u003E: She was on the panel, and I am sure that her views are very much premised on the expression and the opinion that I have, as well. However, I also know that my professional colleagues would prefer that this is not rushed through. The so-called process has been compromised. It\u2019s not due, and the people who use the Family Court system are due that accord of a fair, thorough scrutiny and process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EThe last point that I will make, because time is of the essence here\u2014and it is a done deal, where this has been done over\u2014is that, Minister, you talked about the process having been backlogged. I put it to you and to this House that having a duty lawyer system would assist and facilitate in the way that the criminal court jurisdiction has been facilitated by that. There is no, in my view, necessity for legal aid in position for counsel to be appointed at the earlier stages. That\u2019s exactly what the criminal court process does by way of having a duty lawyer to be able to enhance the process and improve it. Also, part of the backlog was associated with the fact that there weren\u2019t enough judges to deal with the demand. That has now been addressed by the Government, and I acknowledge the Government accordingly for doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo, with this legislation that\u2019s going to be passed through, rushed through, without the appropriate scrutiny and, I think, the opportunity to make it better, it is going to further compromise, and time will play out in evidence that there will continue to be prolonged proceedings in the court. I speak from almost 30 years\u2019 experience, knowing full well that settlements that were reached and resolved\u2014any proceedings being prolonged for years in the Family Court were well dealt with. I cannot support this bill. It may have been different had there been due process and opportunity to improve what is being rushed through the House today. Regrettably, I do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223cb690fc50da4ceb9de59f48c2cae6a2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022231af90b2c764bb4a2b5f9adc91c6192\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de66e621897b408896cd4d8edb5c6feb\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022917c9d645b9b46b1a53b6fc50c871c86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022917c9d645b9b46b1a53b6fc50c871c86\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following discussions with the Opposition, I seek leave for there to be no debate on the second reading and no committee stage for the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00223249233076004286bac253516c2bccfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223249233076004286bac253516c2bccfd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002285c041674fd04987965275244e2028f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285c041674fd04987965275244e2028f6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Following a discussion with the shadow Leader of the House, I seek leave for there to be no debate on the first and second readings, and no committee stage, on the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002283ab9eb13e8348d1aa364ca4498528ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283ab9eb13e8348d1aa364ca4498528ee\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229844c9fd153345489ccb2c75447c7c0d\u0022\u003EFamily Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd05b41df82b4db79195bc3202c2c203\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e99d91309094447c9042ba1efa4e7f61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e99d91309094447c9042ba1efa4e7f61\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b4a76b146dde4638a9b7a1a38db1e857\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e666050da73f4dfd91b4169958d75719\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed2a140325d34d8da79c18c81d72ac13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed2a140325d34d8da79c18c81d72ac13\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d like to just take the opportunity to respond to some of the points raised in the first reading debate on this bill. I know the Hon Mark Mitchell had raised concerns about this being a complete roll-back of the 2014 reforms. Actually, it isn\u2019t that, and there is still scope for the family dispute resolution service, which was a feature of the 2014 reforms. For some families, that has worked, and the scope for that will continue, but the reality is, for a lot of families, what they most needed was access to advice and support from the outset so they understood what they were going to be facing, they could get advice about it, and, actually, what they most needed was a moderating voice and a source of advice so that things didn\u2019t kind of fly unnecessarily out of control in what is a very emotional and difficult time for those going through it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe member Chris Bishop raised three questions\u2014two of them were really the same: what is the urgency and why Budget urgency? The fact is this: going into the COVID-19 lockdown, the Family Court already had a backlog, and by that time they already had the additional judicial capacity that was funded out of last year\u2019s Budget. That was an additional eight judges with 80 percent of their time allocated to the Family Court. So that was considerable. But the court still had a significant backlog of cases. Throughout the level 4 and level 3 lockdown period, they were operating at around about 31 percent of capacity. There were a lot of applications that were lodged, and many cases that were due to be heard during that time that either could not be processed or could not be heard. So that backlog has now grown considerably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe also, I think, on reasonably reliable information and understanding, expect that the consequence of the lockdown period\u2014which for many families has been a blessing as an experience but for some families has been horrific\u2014will be an increased demand and a call on the services of the Family Court. And so we are expecting a significant increase in demands on the time of the Family Court\u2014really starting in the next two or three weeks. This bill will take effect from 1 July\u2014the funding will take effect from 1\u00A0July and will enable parties to get access to that advice\u2014and will, with the benefit of all of the other services that the Family Court has, not only clear the backlog but deal with those cases that will come up as a result. So this will deal with an intensification on the court\u2019s time and services as a result of the COVID-19 lockdown and the existence of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EChris Bishop also asks: why no select committee? This change is very simple. And, in response to the member Harete Hipango, I say that\u2014I know she referred to her former colleague Judge La-Verne King, who was a member of the three-panel group that put together the report\u2014these changes in this bill are directly a recommendation of that report. In recommendations 46 and 47 of that report, they said, \u201CAmend the Care of Children Act \u2026 by repealing section 7A, to allow people to have legal representation at all stages of proceedings\u201D. Recommendation 47 says, \u201CAmend the Legal Services Act 2011 by repealing section 7(3A) and providing for legal aid for [the] Care of Children Act \u2026 applications.\u201D That report came out of a considerable consultation process conducted by that panel\u2014over 100 meetings nationwide, several hundred submissions to that committee, an expert advisory group consisting of academics, specialists, practitioners, and those who work in the court but not on the legal side of it, and they came up with that recommendation. This is just a couple of the recommendations, out of many in that report, that we are now implementing. This has been exhaustively canvassed by people for whom this matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd I want to acknowledge again, if I could, too, the members of that panel\u2014convened by Ros Noonan, and consisting also of Judge La-Verne King and Chris Dellabarca, a family lawyer operating here in Wellington\u2014for producing that report. This is about making sure that, rather than good money being thrown after bad, actually making sure legal aid money that is spent in the Family Court jurisdiction is wisely spent so people get the advice and support they need so things don\u2019t kind of get bogged down and fly out of control. One of the most troubling things you\u2019ll hear judges saying is that the thing that takes up a lot of their time is having to assist unrepresented parties to make sure that they are fairly represented, that they get their information out, and that they don\u2019t go down the various rabbit holes that it\u2019s easy to go down in proceedings in the Family Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI said in the second reading of the 2014 reform bill\u2014at that time\u2014\u201CThe expectation that parents who are going through the dreadful, unfortunate, and traumatic experience of separation, particularly when they\u2019ve been together for a long time, have amassed assets together, and have formed a family together, will be able to, with the assistance of a single facilitator and without the benefit of [the] advice on the legal effect or impact of what they\u2019re doing, happily form some agreement over a period of time is just, frankly, bananas.\u201D And I stand by that statement. These changes in this bill seek to reinstate some common sense, some practicality, to parties going through separation, going before the Family Court, so that they can make best use of their Family Court time and the services that are there and, hopefully, preserve what can be preserved for the benefit of their children. Really, the ones who are suffering the most as a result of those changes are children, who are going for longer and longer without the certainty of arrangements being agreed to or ordered by the court for their living arrangements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI reject what the Hon Mark Mitchell said, which is that we just work a little bit harder on the system. There is a reality about the human factor here: when a critical part of their life, the person who they loved the most and formed a family with\u2014when that falls apart, it is very distressing and very difficult and very emotional, and people ought to have assistance for that. Children ought to have a proper voice in that process, and that is to fulfil our obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. So this bill does that, and on that basis I once again commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228978ad9e6a6549f899f40105a580f3d5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Family Court (Supporting Families in Court) Legislation Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022becfcf29e119493ebb816f766cefd337\u0022\u003ERemuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b297709b9001402abf88715dc2801b92\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002229c79705757d42a68e0fdfa003299b74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229c79705757d42a68e0fdfa003299b74\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of State Services: I move, That the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c65208b77c3f4ade9ca6d02ad12ed20b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading Debate and Committee Stage\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022833c4cdcdcc74f569120578b9c16fc7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022833c4cdcdcc74f569120578b9c16fc7c\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for this bill to have a second reading and committee stage as well as a third reading so that amendments I have on the Table to make this compulsory for all MPs may be debated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00226954baef12f54939b46428b46b22089b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226954baef12f54939b46428b46b22089b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296e2e51030b747599fcba8444db0ff03\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00223598a75de4684bfdb141a0a76fff4fdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223598a75de4684bfdb141a0a76fff4fdc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of State Services: I move, That the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u002278946bf056e9463a847fcbc90fdb2b34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278946bf056e9463a847fcbc90fdb2b34\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5651e7d421d4dc88a07a50626fdec96\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022620203efaa014eddbc313233fa9eec8b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: So we have agreed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf3f2e95f4a24d66bd510986ea8c2497\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ebe01122e34abc8930eb6476c3b5ad\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that there\u2019s no debate on the second reading, Dr Smith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EBill read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d45676c6d4ec433a8ff9670ce0dc6a11\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00221cea34dd081b4955aae57f041e80230d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cea34dd081b4955aae57f041e80230d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of State Services: I move that the COVID amendment remuneration bill be read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccba099c5b64439d9f51e5c3dc155461\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you need to say the name of the bill correctly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de41bbd9340845ca935aff248341723e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca691b383e5f4e0aad0aafaf79faa152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca691b383e5f4e0aad0aafaf79faa152\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E This Remuneration Authority bill is appropriate for the times and it has National\u2019s support. It\u2019s appropriate that senior elected officials, whether they be members of Parliament or whether they be mayors, councillors, or a whole range of commissioners that serve various roles, note that ordinary New Zealanders, whether they\u2019re in their ordinary jobs or are people with their businesses, are taking huge economic pain in the wake of COVID-19, and for that reason, it is appropriate that others, including members of Parliament, share in that burden personally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ECan I also say, National supports the principle that the Remuneration Authority independently set the amount. I think we get ourselves into real difficulty when people set their own salaries. Members of Parliament are in that unusual situation, as are mayors and councillors, of being responsible for public expenditure, and I commend the bill for providing the power for the Remuneration Authority to be able to reduce salaries in the very unusual situation that we are in. But, actually, for the decision to rest with the Remuneration Authority, I think we go down a slippery slope when we have the salaries of elected officials, effectively, being determined by themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I\u2019d make is National does, unusually, support the passage of this bill through all stages\u2014as you\u2019ve seen\u2014under extraordinary circumstances. The reality is that this is a temporary bill; it\u2019s not a permanent one. We all accept that COVID-19 is an exceptional type of circumstance, once in a generation, and perhaps once in a century. So, for that reason, the passage of such legislation that\u2019s got a finite period and that\u2019s directly related to the national emergency is appropriate to carry through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe last point I\u2019d want to make is about expenditure\u2014that is, if we look at this year\u2019s Budget and the $100 billion - plus of expenditure, the amount of savings associated with a relatively small group of people is very minuscule in the big picture. But if I have a concern, it is that the Government has gone for an approach of just spraying money, almost as though the quantity of money is more important than the quality. While it is appropriate that members of Parliament, mayors, and other elected officials share in the burden, there is an extra obligation on Government, which National will be vigorously pursuing, and that is ensuring that every dollar that is being spent in the Budget is well spent, and I worry that the emphasis is on the quantity of the spend rather than the quality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo I simply wish to indicate National\u2019s support for the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3c574e9c3874d7a856eed01f0445eba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3c574e9c3874d7a856eed01f0445eba\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First will support the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI agree with the Hon Dr Nick Smith, the last speaker, that in the scheme of what we are looking at in the scheme of the Budget that has just been announced, the money that we are talking about, in the scheme of a country, is not that great. I also agree with the member that nobody wants to use such\u2014well, urgency, lightly. But also, I\u2019ve never seen what just happened here before\u2014just in my time, I\u2019ve never seen the Leader of the House move that we not have first reading, second reading, or a committee stage. But the reality of the reason why the majority of the House agreed to that was because it\u2019s pointless discussing this. It is pointless taking time for us to go backward and forward and backward and forward about what we, as politicians, know to be true, which is that New Zealanders are going to be hurting, and we should actually take a cut, too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EIt is a temporary piece of legislation and, as Dr Smith quite rightly pointed out, the public may not understand that we don\u2019t set our own salaries. The public asked that of us some years ago. They said that there\u2019s a conflict of interest when the Parliament can decide what they\u2019re going to pay themselves. So, therefore, the Remuneration Authority does that for us, and, strangely enough, that means we have to ask them and give them the power to actually take money away from us, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m sure many of the public might like the Remuneration Authority to have that power for a much longer period of time. But it is time-limited, and I guess the only thing that New Zealand First hopes\u2014like the rest of, I believe, this Parliament hopes\u2014is that the pain that the New Zealand public will feel will be time-limited as well, and that as we come together to try and rebuild our economy outside the other side of COVID-19, this is just one of the smallest little bits that we can do in this House. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022974dae66782c4b278d01ca8de447f6e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022974dae66782c4b278d01ca8de447f6e1\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT in support of the Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill. It is absolutely right and proper that at a time when people across the New Zealand economy, or at least the private sector, are taking 10, 15, 20, or, in some cases, up to 70 percent reductions in pay, Parliament should be at least somewhat making its own contribution and showing its own leadership. But the way that we have come to it also reveals so much about the clunkiness and inertia of the political process to do something that the rest of the country had to do with urgency months ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis is a Parliament that when the Government wants it to, can pass legislation such as the public health measures a couple of days ago in less than 24 hours, and yet the pathway of getting to this legislation has taken us over two months. It was 17 March when I first said to the House that Parliament is going to have to take this sort of initiative, and it was, if I remember rightly, 14 April when the Prime Minister was happy to bathe in national\u2014indeed, global\u2014media adulation for her leadership and announcing that an MP pay cut would be made. Yet here we are, a month later, still introducing a bill that has an inferior outcome, and don\u2019t forget that along the way, I sought twice to introduce a bill that would have cut all MPs\u2019 pay\u2014no ifs, no buts\u2014and the Prime Minister\u2019s party, or members of it, vetoed the introduction of that bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EToday, we have before us this Remuneration Authority (COVID-19 Measures) Amendment Bill, which doesn\u2019t actually cut MPs\u2019 pay in the way that most people would recognise as a pay cut. All this legislation does\u2014and it needs to be said and, let\u2019s be clear, because no one else has said it\u2014is it says the Remuneration Authority can cut MPs\u2019 pay by up to 20 percent for up to six months, and it looks like\u2014as far as anyone can tell\u2014that\u2019s going to be voluntary and up to the individual MP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWell, it gets more interesting, because I have amendments on the Table that I expected to be debated that would have made it mandatory for MPs\u2019 pay to be cut by 20 percent\u2014not voluntary\u2014because, you see, in the private sector, people aren\u2019t taking voluntary pay cuts, as proposed in this bill; they are taking mandatory pay cuts. If we are to show leadership, we should be doing it the way the private sector up and down this country is, and the funny thing is that in a stitch-up between parties on both sides of the House, it\u2019s been agreed not to even have a committee stage and debate those amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what needs to be put on the record, and that\u2019s what people at home need to understand: Parliament didn\u2019t even want to debate making these pay cuts mandatory. They want to keep them voluntary, and why might that be? Well, I suspect the reason is that some members in the Government parties don\u2019t actually plan to take it. No problem: I have another amendment here which would fix that from the public point of view very simply by saying that for these specific individual pay cuts in this period, the Remuneration Authority must publish who took it. But, unfortunately, this House and parties on both sides stitched up and agreed not to debate transparency. So it won\u2019t be compulsory and it won\u2019t be transparent who voluntarily took it. That\u2019s the legislation that is being debated and rushed through the House without even having the debate on whether it\u2019s compulsory or whether it\u2019s transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI hope that members from other parties will get up and say what their intention is, because I\u2019ve been making it clear for weeks\u2014in fact, months\u2014that this has to happen, and I\u2019ll certainly be signing up for the 20 percent over six months, but what about the other MPs in other parties? Are we going to hear, for example, from the Green Party that it doesn\u2019t apply to their MPs because they tithe their salary to the Green Party election campaign? Is that what they\u2019re going to say? Well, it\u2019s not compulsory\u2014the House didn\u2019t want to debate that\u2014and there won\u2019t be transparency. So, in theory, we\u2019ll never know unless there\u2019s a leak\u2014and I should certainly hope not\u2014from the Remuneration Authority. So is the Green Party going to siphon their voluntary, non-transparent pay cut into their election fund? I hope the Green member will get up. She\u2019s shaking her head at me, so she should get up, take a call, and actually say it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd what about the Labour Party? Is it true that the reason it took so long to bring this legislation to the House and the reason they were so eager not to debate making the pay cut compulsory and transparent is that there are Labour Party backbenchers who do not want to take the pay cut and have no intention to? Well, there are a further 10 calls\u201410 speeches\u2014remaining in this debate, if members of Parliament wish to take them, so I hope that those members who didn\u2019t want to debate making it compulsory or transparent are going to get up and tell the New Zealand public what their intentions are, because I think that the public deserves to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another reason why they should do it. It is true, as Tracey Martin has said, that in the context of a Government aiming to spend and borrow an extra $140 billion, MPs\u2019 pay, I\u2019m afraid to say, is a relatively\u2014in fact, a very\u2014small amount of money. So this fiscal saving to the taxpayer won\u2019t be noticed amongst the Government\u2019s other largesse, but the example that it sets can have an impact on the expectations of pay for civil servants up and down this country. I would say that if civil servants look and they say, \u201CIt\u2019s compulsory for us, but the MPs in Parliament did a stitch-up where they refused to make it compulsory, refused to make it transparent who did it voluntarily, and refused to debate either of those two things.\u201D, you\u2019re going to have serious dissension amongst the Civil Service, who are required to take the 20 percent pay cut, and you\u2019re not going to see much wiggle room on voluntary pay cuts in the Civil Service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m talking about highly paid civil servants\u2014those on $600,000 or $700,000, in some cases. Thousands of them on six-figure salaries are going to say, \u201CWell, if the Parliament engaged in a stitch-up, if they didn\u2019t make it compulsory, and we don\u2019t even know how many, if any, of them agreed to take it, then why should we?\u201D, and then one of the main benefits of this legislation, of MPs showing leadership and transparency in order to inspire cost reductions for the taxpayer in the Public Service, is lost. That\u2019s not leadership, but it also tells us something about this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned, the Prime Minister was more than happy to take the adulation for great leadership and for declaring there would be a pay cut. But, as is so often the case with this Government, the marketing was there, the spin was there, but there was no bill ready to actually deliver it. Even after the passage of a month, when this House has managed to urgently pass all sorts of legislation from the registration of forest workers to registering tobacco importers, it somehow hasn\u2019t managed to get around to this vital MP pay cut bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I support the bill. It\u2019s been a long time coming\u2014far too long in the view of the ACT Party\u2014but let it be remembered always that this Parliament refused to debate making it compulsory and refused to debate making it transparent as to who has taken it voluntarily. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00229d710e6fe31148a38e050236d45841d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d710e6fe31148a38e050236d45841d2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ll take a brief call just to clarify the Government\u2019s position in bringing this bill into the House. Our Government is leading in unprecedented times. As a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, we are seeing worldwide disruption to our social and economic lives. In New Zealand, many in the private sector, as has been said, are losing their jobs or facing significant pay reductions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOn 15 April, the Prime Minister announced that Ministers and Public Service chief executives had agreed to a six-month pay reduction in recognition of the wide impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on many people\u2019s incomes. We were clear that this initiative is about leadership, not austerity. Our Government will continue to work towards fair pay for lower-paid workers\u2014especially the people we have been relying on as essential workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI note the solidarity displayed by other leaders across the executive, across Parliament, and across local government who have also committed to making a pay reduction. The Public Service chief executives, whose pay is set by the State Services Commissioner, have already implemented this reduction. Several Crown entity chief executives have reached agreement with their boards to do the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOf course, many of those wishing to take this reduction, including Ministers, have their pay determined by the Remuneration Authority under the Remuneration Authority Act 1977. The authority exists to de-politicise the setting of pay for public and statutory officials. The authority is not allowed to make a determination that reduces an individual\u2019s pay, other than for local government in some circumstances, and the organisations making the payments must pay according to their determination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Government has considered several possible mechanisms to effect the pay reduction. Of those, we believe the simplest and fairest is to amend the Act to enable the authority to make a temporary determination in regard to certain officers covered by the Act. This approach allows the authority to consider individual circumstances in each case\u2014for example, whether that person has already made an equivalent donation to charity. It also preserves the principle that the authority determines what is paid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is a time-limited bill that comprises one clause and one schedule\u2014fairly simple, most would say. The clause allows the Remuneration Authority to determine a temporary pay reduction of up to 20 percent for up to six months for some of the people whose remuneration it determines. The Schedule details which of the positions covered by the Remuneration Authority are within the scope for the clause. The authority has the right to determine that no reduction or a smaller reduction is appropriate in the circumstances of some individuals, so reductions will, in fact, vary. The bill sets the maximum available reduction at 20 percent for a period of up to six months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Schedule sets out those who are covered by this bill, including many public sector leaders such as Ministers, MPs, and chief executives of several Government departments. Crown entity members and local government elected members are also included. Some other positions where pay is determined by the Remuneration Authority are outside the scope of this bill, including the judiciary, quasi-judiciary roles such as tribunal members, Governors-General, and community board members. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Remuneration Authority consults with those whose pay it determines and can be trusted to apply any reduction carefully, fairly, and in consultation with those affected. Any determination for reduced pay will need to be made by 30 June 2020 this year, and applied on or before 30 July this year. The provision will expire on 31 January 2021. After the temporary reduction determination expires, the pay of those affected will return to their base amount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThese are the facts\u2014the clear facts\u2014of this short, essential piece of legislation, that I\u2019m sure the vast majority of this House will support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00225c8940c671d34ed79572b563c2fdd121\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c8940c671d34ed79572b563c2fdd121\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m conscious that we only have a small number of matters to complete the Order Paper, but we\u2019re fast approaching the lunch break. So I seek leave for us to continue sitting and extend it into the lunch break, until we complete the matters on the Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a7e3992ee848a8a9a84aece3b034c9\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Well, all business of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdcb2a50348749378f449825bfb944c9\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: All business in the House\u2014I apologise, I misspoke. All business in the House\u2014whew! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00220fa353d604c3426481a1d3e578f7316c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fa353d604c3426481a1d3e578f7316c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: That was close. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c320c712e1ed4e6494c82420b51ee0db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c320c712e1ed4e6494c82420b51ee0db\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Green Party is supporting this bill, but, ultimately, it doesn\u2019t fit with our policy. We have a longstanding position regarding MP pay that it should be tied to the dollar movements in the median wage, up and down, and this bill does not achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe think we missed an opportunity for a more systemic and fair review of MP pay. It\u2019s vitally important to us that we recognise the value of people working both in the Public Service and the private sector, that we raise incomes for those who have the lowest incomes, and that MPs and Ministers do not receive such high levels of pay that they become out of touch with ordinary New Zealanders. We think that our pay should be linked, fundamentally, to what\u2019s happening for ordinary New Zealanders. But we will support this bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b913b20bac7c4330b6aeb655cd2959ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b913b20bac7c4330b6aeb655cd2959ff\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I stand briefly to speak in favour of the bill. All New Zealanders are aware that the current period and circumstances that our country faces are unprecedented. It\u2019s the view of members\u2014certainly on this side of the House and, I think, more widely\u2014that it is appropriate for the Remuneration Authority to take those matters into account when it sets the remuneration not only for members of Parliament but for other people for whom it has responsibility. We think that this bill balances that imperative with the fact that we do need to sustain an independent process for the setting of higher pay for members of Parliament and for other people, as well. So it\u2019s a good bill in that respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do just want to briefly address\u2014and I actually do this out of respect to the member\u2014the concerns raised by Mr Seymour in the course of this debate. The point I\u2019d simply make\u2014and I don\u2019t make it with chagrin, but I think it\u2019s an important point\u2014is to say that if members wish to participate in the business of the House, including questions about whether leave is sought, members need to be in the House to do that. That is something that is incumbent upon all members, and the processes of the House in that regard were followed appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI note that members and parties have other mechanisms, as well, to engage in the decisions of the Remuneration Authority. The Remuneration Authority, at the outset of this process, sought submissions from members and from parties, and is seeking further submissions at the moment about how the terms of this bill\u2014soon to be Act\u2014might be applied to its decisions. So I\u2019d just point out to the member that there are still mechanisms available for him to make his points known in terms of how the Remuneration Authority might make its decision, and it would be entirely possible\u2014whether it happens or not, I couldn\u2019t say\u2014for the Remuneration Authority to make a decision that is consistent with what that member wishes to see, if his arguments are strong enough when he makes a submission to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It ensures that members of Parliament and other people whose pay is set by the Remuneration Authority have their pay set in a way that is consistent with the economic shock of COVID-19. It ensures that we retain the independence\u2014the important independence\u2014of the remuneration-setting process, and I\u2019m pleased that it has wide support. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBill read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e760669e53b4c9fbd8cd9f29ddeee79\u0022\u003ECOVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022332956ff67b6456fb0b1d0e404791e86\u0022\u003EFinance and Expenditure Committee\u2014Inquiry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00223db121217ce14ed9b39a3a833da8d565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223db121217ce14ed9b39a3a833da8d565\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General)\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to move a motion without notice instructing the Finance and Expenditure Committee to inquire into the operation of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207eeda190b25432fa57e8df2d1d4d29f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c780ff6f6d30441bbeb6db226b0ccb37\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Finance and Expenditure Committee inquire into the operation of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 and report to the House no later than 27 July 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, that\u2019s the motion. May I now speak to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229273572113ba41a6848158645fea1836\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e061f838e094f7ba7088b85fbbf9406\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members are aware that we passed a bill two days ago, I think it was, on Wednesday, in advance of the move into level 2 to create a new legal framework for level 2. We, in the Government view, thought it was necessary to do that under all stages under urgency, in order to have it in place by 11.59 p.m. that night in order to have a proper legal basis for the move into level 2. We also had a debate in this House\u2014despite the powers under that bill being narrower than the powers that were in place as we debated the bill, under the Health Act\u2014as to whether the powers that are given in respect of what are now section 11 notices under that Act, compared with the section 70 notices under the Health Act, raised important issues of civil liberties. Members of this House expressed discomfort with doing that through urgency and would have preferred a select committee process, and we explained at the time that we didn\u2019t think we could delay that for a select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAfter the bill passed, some suggestions were made, actually\u2014including by legal academics, through social media\u2014saying: well, why don\u2019t we actually have a look at it again at select committee now? So that\u2019s what this motion enables.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve proposed that it be the Finance and Expenditure Committee (FEC) for a number of reasons\u2014(1) the decision-making power also now includes economic aspects as well as health matters. But I think, as all members know, the FEC has a representation of senior members. It\u2019s actually a large committee, and, if we give up one of our spots\u2014which we intend to do\u2014to the Green Party, every party in Parliament will be represented on the committee. There are already a number of lawyers on it, which is appropriate given the civil liberties issues that arise, and, of course, parties can choose to sub other members on if they feel that they need additional expertise different to their normal membership of the committee. It will be up to that committee as to how they decide to run their process. We\u2019re not controlling that through this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe final point I will make is that in respect of the report back date, the date of 27 July 2020 is chosen because that\u2019s a couple of weeks before the first 90-day roll over comes up. The bill requires this Parliament to refresh the powers in that bill every 90 days, and it would be helpful to have the report of the committee back to the House before Parliament considers the roll over of that, should it be necessary by that time. I envisage that the world won\u2019t have COVID under control by then, so there\u2019s a more than remote possibility that the Government will want to renew it at that date, but it would be useful, for that debate, for the House to have the report of the committee by that time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d73d3e57e445487aae224a228bf47662\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d73d3e57e445487aae224a228bf47662\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party did not support that legislation when it was passed, technically today but in fact yesterday, and we did outline a number of reservations that we had, particularly around the use of section 11 and the sort of, I suppose you might say, scrutiny that would go on those provisions, because that\u2019s where the rubber hits the road, as it were. That\u2019s where the bill gives legal authority to the prescription that will be in those section 11 orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWe did make three recommendations for changes by way of Supplementary Order Paper. They weren\u2019t picked up because the Government actually saw the worth of those proposals, and one of those proposals was this three-month, 90-day sort of review. So we think that that\u2019s not a bad sort of thing to do. What we would be interested in, though, is: why the Finance and Expenditure Committee, when the Parliament has already set up a COVID-19 committee specifically to look at legislation that relates to the crisis? It would seem to me that that would be the right place to send it, and it\u2019s my intention at the end of my contribution here to move an amendment to the motion that\u2019s on the Table. For the sake of making things a little easier, regardless of what a result might be, my amendment would simply be that the scrutiny that\u2019s being sought in this motion\u2014that it be referred to the COVID committee as opposed to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I see the clerk doing his best to try and decipher what I\u2019ve just said and put it into a form that the House can consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ELook, it is important that these section 11 notices are scrutinised, and I think one of the things that will give the public more confidence about how things are unfolding, as it\u2019s likely that we see less and less incidence of new cases but still find that there is a degree of restriction on civil liberty, is if they know that there is going to be an ongoing look at those restrictions with a final recommendation inside that 90-day period to the Government. I could stand here and say, well, this is the Government feeling the heat of criticism from outside of the place; that, I think, in the circumstances, might be a little churlish, but I can\u2019t help thinking that it might be a little bit at play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo, Madam Speaker, with that, do I need to state what my amendment is, or has the Clerk perhaps got it in a form that might be useful enough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6264eb112ad4e2b81231320455921bf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I think members are clear. The documentation will be able to be done. Are you going to move the amendment now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220782fdde086b4f69b0477f6d7a96f72a\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am going to move the motion currently in the hands of the Clerk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ea1ce7e02e4b428f1eb061359c6227\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, the Clerk will get it into your hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f9a4dc83e742f48e5a6c1c88bd2ad6\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and under social distancing, I\u2019ve got some difficulty in getting it to a point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022866fed362ad3427c90c5748def37ef4a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The Rt Hon David Carter is coming to your rescue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022854272ac406b4997a82b377abeaa0f11\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The Rt David Carter has clearly got himself now well qualified for a post-parliamentary job here in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI move, That the motion be amended by replacing \u201CFinance and Expenditure\u201D with \u201CEpidemic Response Committee\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444c3a8e21c845f2b5540bb881d4b329\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent, and you just have to sign it and table it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c30b50bed424e12928f3949738a37c1\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, and I\u2019ll affix my signature if I can find a pen. Now, look, don\u2019t blame me for being disorganised. The Government only came down to the House\u2014I should explain to those who are watching\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc310bbe144479ba922c95556275766\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Your amendment will not be lost because of lack of documentation. David Seymour\u2019s seeking the call, so you\u2019ve got plenty of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d70f4e0e8584ab4b56ce84c51c8ea10\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE\u003C/span\u003E: The point is, the Government only came down to the House with this literally in the last 10 minutes, so it\u2019s not unusual that we\u2019re just scrambling slightly, because they\u2019re scrambling a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801999476f9d434c8a2122c8bfd77cd1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, your amendment will not be lost; don\u2019t worry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1539704850746a498ecc23ba338abc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1539704850746a498ecc23ba338abc2\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the initial motion and the amendment to it. It\u2019s certainly the case that the urgently passed legislation was extraordinary, that the powers it introduced were extraordinary, and the sense of fear and anxiety that it has put through New Zealanders\u2014who now understand what it means, that the police theoretically can now warrantlessly enter your home if they suspect you\u2019re having a birthday party with 11 kids present\u2014is palpable, and it\u2019s being talked about up and down New Zealand. I think the idea of having a continuous select committee process rather than a 90-day review\u2014bearing in mind that in 90 days, Parliament will no longer be sitting, having adjourned for the election, all going well\u2014is a good idea. That 90-day review, which would be extended beyond 90 days in this instance, is inadequate. Having a sense of continuous monitoring by a select committee is the right way to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn addition, I think it\u2019s absolutely the case that sending it to the Epidemic Response Committee\u2014as proposed by the Hon Gerry Brownlee\u2014is the right thing to do. Because, as you\u2019ve just heard from Michael Wood\u2014you know, politics is filled with chameleons and just sometimes you see a flash of their true character, and Michael Wood just gave us one of those flashes\u2014the Government can\u2019t be trusted with anything other than eternal vigilance. His true character is that he\u2019ll get away with whatever he can. That\u2019s his moral compass, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s critical that the Epidemic Response Committee\u2014which is chaired by a member of the Opposition and has a majority of Opposition MPs\u2014is actually able to be scrutinising the exercise of executive power under this bill: because you can\u2019t trust the current lot in their entirety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I hope that the motion succeeds. Bringing some sort of select committee, I guess, authority into this is critical. But sending it to the Epidemic Response Committee, where we\u2019re able to have an oversight which has some Opposition dominance, is arguably even more critical. Then we know that this won\u2019t be just a rubber stamp and, effectively, a marketing exercise on behalf of the Government, but actually a representation on behalf of the non-executive part of Parliament, on behalf of the people, holding this power to account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s a very commendable motion from the Hon David Parker, a very commendable amendment from the Hon Gerry Brownlee. I think that this motion and amendment should both pass, and I think people up and down New Zealand will be very happy to see that happen. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u0022be17066fb93449fa988e78b663acac8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be17066fb93449fa988e78b663acac8b\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I rise to take a very brief point on the motion and to speak to the amendment that\u2019s been advanced by the Hon Gerry Brownlee. I do this in an attempt to point out to the Minister, particularly, the workload that the Finance and Expenditure Committee is currently under. We have, from memory, three pieces of legislation which we\u2019re working on, and as an example of the programme next week\u2014being a recess week\u2014the Finance and Expenditure Committee has already resolved to meet on Monday next week, on Tuesday next week, on Wednesday next week, on Friday next week, and on the following Monday. So I think the Minister needs to be fully aware of the workload that\u2019s been presented to that committee with the current legislation, and in asking it to now accept another role that could adequately be done by another special committee, the Epidemic Response Committee\u2014I genuinely ask him to consider that in light of the workload to this House that\u2019s before the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002265ba13c9f3a144ada5e5c6aab08d95d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ba13c9f3a144ada5e5c6aab08d95d6\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Prior to David Seymour speaking, I wasn\u2019t planning on taking a call in this debate, but something motivated me during the course of his speech. I\u2019ll stay away from the personal comments, because I think we can all be a little bit bigger than that in the House today, but I did want to address the importance of this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been quite a bit of heat and light, in the House but also more broadly this week, in terms of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 , and, to a great degree, members on this side understand that. We\u2019re living in extraordinary times, and we accept and understand the fact that some of the powers included in that Act are powers that we would not wish to ordinarily see operating, both in respect of the powers that Ministers receive under the Act and the powers of agencies such as the police. There are sound reasons for that, which are canvassed in the debate about the bill, in order that we might ensure the public health of New Zealanders and that we don\u2019t have the deaths and massive disruption of a further outbreak of COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EBut the point I want to make is that for members on this side of the House\u2014who do take seriously the questions of the civil liberties of New Zealanders, as I think all members of the House do\u2014this is a serious and genuine proposal in order that there might be appropriate oversight of that piece of legislation and the powers that it allows. And I just acknowledge members in the House who seem to, I think, have gracefully responded to that. I can envisage that all members of the select committee to which this inquiry is referred will engage in that seriously. I do think it\u2019s appropriate that the bill is referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. It\u2019s a large committee that includes all members from around the Chamber. It has significant expertise. It works well together as a committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI want to specifically respond to the point that Mr Carter made, which was a reasonable point to raise, but I think it\u2019s easily dealt with. Yes, we understand the Finance and Expenditure Committee is a busy committee, but, actually, sending this piece of work to another committee doesn\u2019t particularly solve that problem. It\u2019s still work that has to be done by members of this House. It doesn\u2019t subtract or add anything different depending on the committee that it goes to. But it will, in fact, for both, particularly the National and Labour and Green and New Zealand First parties\u2014most parties around the Chamber\u2014create considerable difficulties to be having to schedule members to be attending another select committee in addition to busy committees like the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I might also just gently note that one of the reasons that the Finance and Expenditure Committee is particularly busy next week is because leave was denied for it to meet yesterday, but that\u2019s a little bit by the by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo I just want to leave members with the assurance\u2014certainly from members from my party and I think from other members on this side of the House\u2014that we put forward this motion in good faith, because we think it is fair and reasonable that there is parliamentary oversight and consideration of these issues, and that if the motion is successful in referring this inquiry to the Finance and Expenditure Committee, that good faith will extend through to the way that that committee operates in terms of its oversight of this inquiry. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00224fb2b2ac74b84166867d9bea10f1fa06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fb2b2ac74b84166867d9bea10f1fa06\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I won\u2019t take a long call either, because it\u2019s encouraging to detect that there is general consensus for the spirit of the motion that has been brought to the House by the Attorney-General. But as the Hon Gerry Brownlee noted a short time ago, we wouldn\u2019t have known that we were going to be having this discussion even 15 minutes ago, because we were totally unaware of the motion at that point and therefore there\u2019s been no opportunity for the parties to have a discussion, as often happens outside this Chamber, to reach agreement on some of these finer points, and in particular as to where the responsibility for the scrutiny in a select committee should lie. And I thank the Rt Hon David Carter for his intervention. I think it\u2019s utterly disingenuous for Michael Wood to say that the only reason that the Finance and Expenditure Committee is so busy is because leave was denied for a meeting one day, yesterday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9da7727ce60442cb60fcba27623bca5\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: We met twice yesterday; he\u2019s wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df2c9c0cf334c8dbf89e6232964c10a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: They met twice yesterday, so it\u2019s even more disingenuous. The fact of the matter is, as Mr Carter has noted, that particular committee will be meeting\u2014I think he said\u2014four days in the next week, which isn\u2019t even a sitting week of Parliament. So that shows that they are extraordinarily busy and it would not be appropriate for such a serious responsibility as this to be put in their direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI am speaking as the shadow Attorney-General. The National Party opposed this bill as vigorously as we could in the very short space of time that was available to us. We hadn\u2019t seen the bill\u2014and even then it was in a draft embargoed form\u2014until Monday night. We were debating it the following day. It was enacted the day after that. There was no select committee process. That is always a matter of concern whenever any bill is being considered, but particularly one which does attack the civil liberties of New Zealanders, one which gives the police powers without warrants to enter private dwellings, and the like. So this is not a minor issue. It\u2019s all very well for Mr Wood to suggest that his party is a defender of civil liberties; they certainly weren\u2019t on that occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI\u2019m indebted to David Seymour, the ACT Party leader, for pointing out while he was speaking that in fact the Finance and Expenditure Committee does not have permanent representatives from all the parties in the Parliament. So I think that is a very important reason also for endorsing the amendment that has been moved by the Hon Gerry Brownlee for this bill to go to the Epidemic Response Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut, of course, there is another matter. The Finance and Expenditure Committee of Parliament has a Government majority. The Epidemic Response Committee was set up, because Parliament was being suspended, to ensure that the Opposition could carry out its very important constitutional function to hold the Government to account. And it remains in place because it\u2019s considering COVID-related legislation that has been dealt with. We are talking about a COVID-related bill here in this particular motion, and therefore I would suggest to all members that not only should we support the overall spirit of the motion for the bill to be able to have scrutiny but that it must go to the Epidemic Response Committee because that is chaired by the Leader of the Opposition. It has conducted itself very responsibly and, I think, as consensually as possible during the process of the lockdown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI just want to close by making the point that members of Parliament have been receiving a huge volume of correspondence, phone calls to our offices, text messages, social media posts, and so on, because many people were opposed to the passage of the bill. They were very, very concerned that there was going to be no select committee process. Therefore, this, at least belatedly, gives us the opportunity for select committee scrutiny. But also, many have pointed out that they only heard about it when it was a fait accompli. Because there was so limited opportunity for the media to cover this issue, they simply didn\u2019t know that it was happening, and now they are saying, \u201CGood Lord! Has a democratic country like New Zealand passed a bill of this nature?\u201D We\u2019ve had that debate; I\u2019m not relitigating that one now. But I am strongly urging members of this House to support the amendment of the Hon Gerry Brownlee to ensure that the committee that can deal with this, that has been set up\u2014the Epidemic Response Committee\u2014can do its work appropriately. And then we will support the scrutiny that the Attorney-General is calling for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a38cf2c01a2a48c081b7cbea1e5dcf3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a38cf2c01a2a48c081b7cbea1e5dcf3e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the amendment, I\u2019ve only a few points to make. Parliament is no longer suspended. The Business Committee agreed to the creation of the COVID committee while Parliament was suspended, while there wasn\u2019t question time, and while there wasn\u2019t parliamentary scrutiny of executive action, and all of those events have now passed. The other point I would make, in correction of what the member who just took his seat, Tim Macindoe, said, was he said the \u201Cpowers\u201D of police to enter a dwelling house. It\u2019s not correct. There is only one power to enter a dwelling house, and that is breaking up a gathering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c974d38852453bb9d1a84d9df4bb4e\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s splitting hairs, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae88d57eb20347d693ed3462fcbcb459\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not splitting hairs, because the prior power that was already in force, prior to this latest bill narrowing the powers, had much broader powers of warrantless entry into a dwelling house. Indeed, one of the comments that I have seen since that bill was passed was that the now narrower power of the police to enter to break up a gathering\u2014i.e., a party\u2014is not much different to the power of a council officer to go into a party and take a stereo. I have nothing else to add.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002289357c6597ff4b37a8c73b730e74eb07\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be amended by replacing \u201CFinance and Expenditure\u201D with \u201CEpidemic Response Committee\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000475\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the Finance and Expenditure Committee inquire into the operation of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 and report to the House no later than 27 July 2020. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000476\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000477\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1.21 p.m. (Friday)\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200514d34ce95d4b00456194a535abae20a9e0000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"