"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223574efc01eed41c79d5d0d3a7d488ec8\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 30 JUNE 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267681a7002724f168e1495dce8e0a461\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 30 JUNE 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000004\u0022\u003EPrayers.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022beaa31eacfe7439abe06d899f43c9693\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e362158e29d943f48189e3995edada26\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ff66bf21faf4810bae8a45cd1bb4ba6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022 data-id=\u002234d5acf602124002a8991a89bac1f596\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234d5acf602124002a8991a89bac1f596\u0022\u003ETODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does her Government have a strategy for ensuring appropriate standards are in place to detect, track, and trace new cases of COVID-19 so that New Zealand\u2019s border can be progressively opened ahead of the development of an effective vaccine; if so, what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec38a3c5839b4ac8bf325e9fdf4a994a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec38a3c5839b4ac8bf325e9fdf4a994a\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to answer this question in two parts. Firstly, as a Government, we have worked hard to scale up our contact tracing significantly. This has included providing $55 million to support public health units and contact tracing; extended capacity to make 10,000 calls per day; and ensuring public health units are using a national contact tracing system, with the final one now coming on board. However, the suggestion that this should be done as a tool to reopen our borders is wrong. Contact tracing is a tool to keep people safe; border controls are too. At a time when cases are surging globally and the World Health Organization says, \u201Cthe hard reality is this is not even close to being over\u201D, to suggest that we should simply reopen the borders and rely on contact tracing, no matter how good it is, is, frankly, dangerous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273b8288bceec411ba7aaa23bd73224de\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Kirk Hope of Business New Zealand that working toward some opening of the border needs to be an urgent priority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7ed95e112342c9a46c1322870de0a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: My assumption would be, from the many conversations I\u2019ve had with Kirk Hope, that he would support doing that in a way that is safe. At the moment, when we have 10 million cases reported globally, when we have the potential for South Asia and Africa not even having peaked yet, states in the United States now surging, the suggestion that right now is the time to open the borders and rely on contact tracing is, as I say, frankly, dangerous. When it comes to my conversations with Mr Hope, I\u2019ve found them to be constructive. The view I\u2019ve heard from business is: don\u2019t put in jeopardy our freedom domestically\u2014the fact our domestic economy is open\u2014by opening up too early and too soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d08afed71bd14c3e9dc30076010772e7\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Is she confident New Zealand can open its border to international travellers, without a vaccine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dfb7dc94bc041ffbc52a6b2945b1712\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: A vaccine is not the only thing that will make a difference in the globe\u2019s fight against COVID-19. Other things that will be game-changers will be, for instance, successful treatment; whether or not we see a change in the way this pandemic is spreading, although we haven\u2019t seen it to date; yes, as the member says, a vaccine; but also rapid and accurate testing technology has the potential to change the dynamic globally. Right now, though, the reality is, many countries who have the economic freedoms we do currently are using their borders as a line of defence. That will continue to be the case while we see this pandemic surging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6f98f3bfc1a4df79866802ce70ec796\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: What specific conditions would need to be met by other countries for the New Zealand border to be opened to their travellers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ed5a053cecd4495bcce5454b131b6cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Some of the discussions we\u2019ve had and continue to have actively, and in just the past weeks and days, with Australia are around preconditions to ensure that we preserve each other\u2019s status, because there are, obviously, states in Australia that are in a very similar position to ours. So it is around things like whether or not there is community transmission and how long states have been free of that, whether or not there is adequate contact tracing, testing capacity, and things that indicate a similar system and regime to ours that can give us confidence that if an area is declaring itself free of community transmission that that is the case. We have, however, put in some acknowledgment that many of our Pacific Island neighbours, including Realm countries, are reliant on us for testing, so that may mean there is a slight delay in their testing time frames.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225805797b6cfb4e99822a88370012d8ba\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: If there is no community transmission in some states in Australia, does that meet her comfort in terms of opening up the New Zealand border with those individual states if they have no community transmission and have rigorous tracking and tracing regimes, as she just said?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19cdb1330e74d8fb3872da1ec9283f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s actually a question better placed to Prime Minister Scott Morrison. We have been doing the work to make sure that we have\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1e3d8b95d84967bd5834481f75e252\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! I\u2019ll just say that most of the noise is coming from my left, but I\u2019d rather only have one Minister answering the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250d9e1d89bc54440ad9773ee471f9646\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We have been doing the work to make sure that when we are in a time and place when that threshold can be met by Australia that we are ready. However, it is ultimately a matter for Australia as to whether or not they choose to open up at a federal level, in which case it may take longer for them to reach that status, or whether or not they move state by state. That is a matter for Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a2033491c541da87d478712279eaa2\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: What conditions and criteria would need to be occurring in this country for a safe reopening of the border with Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6aaedf41cca4ed68a8d5f980998e9f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously it would be a reciprocal arrangement, so the preconditions I\u2019ve already just set out around days free of community transmission, the ability to test, contact trace, that\u2019s actually based on what we ask of ourselves in the same way we would be asking of anyone that we would be creating a travel bubble with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2b1f286b76407fa327cf33df4e405b\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: How many days free would New Zealand need to be and what level of accurate, robust track and tracing would need to be met before the Prime Minister would be satisfied that New Zealand would be in a position to meet the equivalent standard in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee6c3d03c4ab4f4281704075a7f9e916\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We are meeting our own standard already for opening up, but, again, the member is asking me what standards Australia would want to set against us. That is for them to determine. When it comes to Australia, we ultimately want to assure ourselves, quite simply, that, if we open up our borders, we do not import cases. Now, either the member agrees with that criteria or he doesn\u2019t. If he doesn\u2019t, it\u2019s for him to answer to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233347693eaf54ab9b51f2f10fa003223\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: What expectations would she have of the Australian Government and their testing regime and their community transmission and their cases, for her to feel comfortable that the New Zealand border could open?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d7a8b68f374b95adac99c208efa2c3\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: The same expectations we have opening ourselves up in the way we have. I have answered multiple times: the ability to quickly contact trace, the ability to process testing in quick time, the absence of community transmission. If the member is suggesting that when Victoria is declaring 75 cases in one day, and community transmission, that we should be opening up to that state currently, the member is out of step with the New Zealand public. That has not stopped us continuing to do the work, but the member may wish to reflect on whether or not it is good for the economy to have us move up alert levels because of an outbreak brought in over the border.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c345d56405b642a595ba0d7be9a05939\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Prime Minister, should we, despite there being a spike in COVID-19 cases in Beijing, open our borders with China, as Mr Muller from the National Party suggests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227183061659dc49ec96c649a203f1e2a1\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Apart from knowing me for 30 years and he still can\u2019t get my name right, that is not what I have said, and I have never said that directly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d8f01103bf4c5eb6029b8f94884636\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s word must be taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc5f46c1339f41bab9bf92643e5ad3ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. A member\u2019s word must be taken, but if that question has been put at least four times in this House\u2014and the Hansard will attest to that\u2014on the fifth time he can\u2019t ask us to surely believe his word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022059aae76704b4357ab17e15447c2a19d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not sure that the member is correct in that particular area. I think the precedent for a question being asked is indicative, but my feeling is that speed is not necessarily required. The member has given the House an assurance that he did not say that, and we must take his word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fd8809c721e4d82a6efc52706fa46e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, what are the consequences, if it can be proven, that he did say that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212a6edcaeb7b4fef8b3a27af4d04ad4e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You mean that he did say that? Well, the member knows as well I do what the consequences of that are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002207dc4112-8a19-4dd6-a57c-878b47f8a9b6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd934b4e78d445fd9aa422cf3a172874\u0022\u003EHon Ron Mark\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can we take it from that ruling, therefore, that no longer do members of Parliament have to seek leave of the House to make a personal statement; they can simply take a point of order, refute a comment, and you will accept it as their word and the whole of the House now has to accept it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227781eb44dea64fcc8e7d47e550f4058f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the short answer is yes. That is the long-time precedent here, and that is that all members are honourable members and when they make a statement, especially with regard to something that they have said or they have not said, their word is taken. The consequences for misleading the House in that circumstance, as a number of members should know, is very serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a975991e2d3465ebaf18be59888913a\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister\u2019s response to the statement from National Party leader, Todd Muller, that it was critically important that we considered broadening the bubble beyond Australia: \u201CIt\u2019s totally appropriate that Australia is our number one priority, but concurrently we need to be thinking around \u2018so how do we open up to China, what does that look like?\u2019 \u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a730c793e694390bebfb3b133331821\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I would confirm what I\u2019ve said many times in this House: regardless of the overseas country we are considering, the criteria needs to be the same\u2014that is, the safety of New Zealanders, the ability to keep our economy open, and our ability to move around domestically freely. Importing cases puts all of that at jeopardy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f64d470a02e24ba1acdc9c38f909b04c\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: To the Prime Minister, again, could she please confirm for New Zealand what is the criteria that would meet her satisfaction for the border of New Zealand to be opened to other countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51fe7b4f5ac43bbb9648ac8c1ce165e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: For the third or possibly fourth time: a country or state being free of community transmission, the ability to rapidly contact trace along the same criteria that we have in New Zealand, and the ability for rapid turn-around of testing so that we can be assured of the public data for any country being accurate data from which we make our judgments. To come back to the principle of what the member seems to be getting at, the suggestion that somehow New Zealand is standing in the way of opening up a trans-Tasman bubble is simply incorrect. There are two issues at play. One, community transmission in Australia\u2014the idea that we would open up to the entire nation right now, I think, is out of step with where the New Zealand public is, and would threaten our position. Secondly, the possibility of state-by-state openings is not a matter for New Zealand; it is a matter for Prime Minister Morrison and is up to him. If the member takes issue with that, he should contact his counterparts in Australia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdb01002-a7cf-4a77-8f05-678d24a36849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3f83c25c68f4fc4bf059c9f5172b4ef\u0022\u003ETodd Muller\u003C/span\u003E: Does she foresee some opening of the border, perhaps to certain countries in the first half of 2021?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b305a52bc6e4e92bf716f809e942cea\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We are working, as we speak, for arrangements to ensure that if there is a time and place where it is safe to do so, and that it meets our criteria, we will be ready to do that. We\u2019ve started with trans-Tasman. That work is still under way, but, again, I say to the member: if he believes New Zealanders want us to open up our borders without any concern for their public safety, the member is well out of step with the public sentiment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efff0acc520b4c65985a080ad18790d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister, on the question of opening up the border with China, has she seen the Stuff article of 25 May\u2014that\u2019s last month\u2014where Mr Muller said, \u201CHow can we move into other countries, like China, in due course\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca1f416795af46e4a2b1ea3bdb6a1665\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I refer to Speakers\u2019 ruling 159/5, that states: \u201CIt is not reasonable to use questions from the governing party or its support parties to attack other members of the House.\u201D It was an original Speaker\u2019s ruling by Lockwood Smith, reinforced by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b31c1e5837bd4a6ea98a24801b73cc44\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb84803fa2474b57b64f42178b5480e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, as I\u2019ve said, actually, I would say there are a number of countries that actually have experienced prolonged periods without COVID and where that has then changed. South Korea has been one where we\u2019ve looked to; Singapore; obviously, Australia. This is a highly uncertain time where this Government has been focused on giving domestic certainty to those who are trying to reopen their businesses, get the economy going, in a globe where there is such uncertainty. That has to be our focus, and that is our priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf073e90d66140bb8c98f07c4f4ef405\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00222c193de1c8424157a6ebe57c0351ed10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c193de1c8424157a6ebe57c0351ed10\u0022\u003EDr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221033ef64597745a099328faff2b9725a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221033ef64597745a099328faff2b9725a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Late last week, Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s (S \u0026amp; P) global ratings released a report on the economic outlook for the Asia-Pacific region. The S \u0026amp; P report said that economies that flattened COVID-19 curves quickly and launched substantial and well-targeted stimulus\u2014like New Zealand\u2014are expected to escape with less permanent economic damage. S \u0026amp; P Asia-Pacific chief economist Shaun Roache said, \u201CNew Zealand definitely is one of those economies that has exited the most severe periods of the pandemic first, and that clearly was just because what that allows the economy to do is reopen so those face-to-face service activities that are so important for the labour market, and that hopefully should get jobs restarted and people can go back to work.\u201D While our economy continues to face challenges from COVID-19, the S \u0026amp; P forecast shows that our decision to go hard and early with our health response, combined with our significant investments to protect businesses and jobs, will help stimulate the economy and speed up the recovery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247940cef86dc48558779f6cf51aecca7\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: What did the S \u0026amp; P report say about New Zealand\u2019s current economic outlook compared with international peers and previous downturns? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2a6a76f09d451bb720fddc8f5a0f2f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: According to the report, S \u0026amp; P expects the COVID-19 pandemic to leave \u201Clasting scars\u201D on the Asia-Pacific region. New Zealand is not immune, and this is reflected in its forecast. S \u0026amp; P expects the New Zealand economy to contract 5 percent in the year to June 2020, reflecting the impact of the lockdown and the global recession, but this is then followed by a strong period of projected expansion: 6 percent in 2021, 3.4 percent in 2022, and 3 percent in 2023. That is a faster rebound than either Australia or Japan are projected. While we\u2019ve always been clear that the economic fallout from the pandemic would be difficult, it is encouraging that S \u0026amp; P expects the New Zealand economy to rebound relatively strongly, meaning less of an economic hit over the medium and long term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256e48ef2e53040d4a7ca5edbbcb8dec8\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen reports of recovery in the New Zealand job market? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7fe50840464b27808ac17264e5ff09\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday, Stats New Zealand released employment indicators for May, showing some encouraging signs for the job market. The Stats data shows the total number of filled jobs rose a seasonally adjusted 0.8 percent in May, after a 1.6 percent drop during April as a result of the lockdown. The May result is the highest monthly growth rate since January 2019. The data also showed that the overall fall in filled jobs since March has been most significant for those aged 15 to 24, who tend to be doing more part-time and casual work while studying. While the headline increase is encouraging, we are obviously concerned at the impact on younger people, which is why we have already put in place initiatives including training and apprenticeship funding, and, obviously, the continuation of the first year of post-school training free. There will be a long way to go in providing sustainable, skilled employment pathways for people who have lost their jobs as a result of COVID-19, but the Government is committed to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9abf96b96914998bbfb87149986ebff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022773eee5ff3b649bb8d27ef40311cdd6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022773eee5ff3b649bb8d27ef40311cdd6b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: How much of the $62.1 billion of available support in response to COVID-19 has been allocated so far, and, of the amount allocated, how much money has been spent to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d37aacd2e10b4ccc8e05f735b5f45e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d37aacd2e10b4ccc8e05f735b5f45e1b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has set aside $62 billion for investments to support the economy through this one-in-100-year pandemic. This includes the $50 billion COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund announced in the Budget, and the initial $12 billion economic package on 17 March. To date, about $44.4 billion has been announced and allocated over the forecast period, including for schemes to protect jobs and support businesses, like the wage subsidy scheme and changes to the tax system. At the same time, the Government has committed significant new investment for essential public services like health and education. In answer to the second part of the question, the Crown accounts for the 2020 fiscal year have not yet been finalised, but Treasury forecasts that more than $26 billion will be spent in the current year to 30 June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8796f91cb374c6ab75256c6d0cc949c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: What boundaries or rules, if any, has he put on spending the unallocated $18 billion or so during the election period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022572f8775b96447eb94b861ed18a9f2d8\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The boundaries and rules are that that is the COVID Response and Recovery Fund. It is designed to ensure that New Zealand can continue to respond to COVID-19 in the way that we have, which means that we respond as need arises and support New Zealanders to get through this. We will continue to spend as is needed and as is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222566d2cf1f914d5296c5588f36361ca6\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he assure New Zealanders that his Government won\u2019t spend whatever it thinks it might take to keep its poll numbers up until 19 September, before presenting New Zealanders with the bill on the 20th, if they succeed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200758d9a6d024cc5933863adaa87e8b4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The assurance I can give the member is that I don\u2019t view the world the way he does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534cd67aa91a41c8afd0eb1b2ef97b3a\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe higher taxes will be necessary to pay back the debt incurred so far from the COVID fund and that forecast over the next three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270f4312fde6e4fc6aff5932caea9b409\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in this House before, the way that New Zealand will get through this is to grow our economy sustainably. The long-term projections show that debt will reduce as we do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4d0c5632b44fef99c699753f30f62e\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he rule out any increases to income taxes if he has a chance to carry on being the Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7029071de644acb352fa3104d22360\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m responsible as the Minister of Finance in this Government. This Government has been very clear, and our record shows over these months, that we\u2019re interested in putting money into the pockets of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4ffcb9711a41ccb18d4b5da450e99c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: How does he think increasing fuel taxes again tomorrow will help New Zealanders get through the post - COVID-19 recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258c89cd43e5746e89520470cad862001\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re going to come to that matter in a moment, but I would say that the member will be well aware that fuel taxes, as they are paid for through the fuel excise duty and the road-user charges, are hypothecated to transport. That is an engine of growth in the economy. And I do note that, in the wake of the global financial crisis, when the previous Government was in power, on 1 October 2009 they increased fuel excise duty by 7 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223eab0abe8cae4b6db623532f4039d7c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2837f73080d4c4f946b9b426dad8a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2837f73080d4c4f946b9b426dad8a3a\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was submitted to the Prime Minister, not the Minister of Finance. I seek leave to have it transferred back and addressed by the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fcf71e051ce402db5cbd159e7290421\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? Yes, there is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a595a53c548943058cbe4aa7257934cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a595a53c548943058cbe4aa7257934cd\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Why is the Government planning to increase petrol excise duty, road-user charges, and alcohol excise duty tomorrow, at the same time as New Zealand enters a recession?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00223c9c6ef4a6db4d0ebb0767a7aedeb27b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c9c6ef4a6db4d0ebb0767a7aedeb27b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The member knows that the petrol excise duty and road-user charges are hypothecated levies, where every cent goes towards investing in transport, which we need right now to help stimulate the economy and to create jobs. As with alcohol excise, these are the subject of regular calculations and changes, as was done by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ea2c7d537c42e8914ff7df376dd045\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that the Government needs to raise road-user charges, petrol excise tax, and alcohol excise tax, but it can afford to give a $10 million package to a millionaire named AJ Hackett?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf78e2e007cd463ab85308fc6fdfa6f4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve heard members on the other side of the House cry foul about the fact that we\u2019re not giving enough money to tourism, so it\u2019s a confused picture on the other side of the House. What we\u2019re doing there is supporting strategic assets in the tourism industry, and I repeat the primary answer: the petrol excise duty and the road-user charges are hypothecated levies. The money goes to transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a79790131e04c4594be7980223670ae\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Government stand by the adulation it gave to truckies and the whole logistics sector, when the increase in road-user charges will push up their costs and, by extension, the costs to families of every single good they carry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225975b58312304d6b8fa015097038eb9d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Those users of our transport network are the very people who want to make sure we have well-maintained roads and that we build new roads and that we build public transport to reduce congestion. These are the very people who want to see us improve those roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d985175e11a46a3b18d9f85d4b073a6\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Once the excise increase of 3.5c takes place tomorrow, will prices at the pump be higher or lower than they were in January?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022373641797b2c4ec08d6278f348648a58\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: They will indeed be lower, because I believe that we\u2019ve seen a pretty significant drop in tax in the price of fuel over this period of time. But the good news that all motorists know is that money goes directly to improving the roads in the transport network that we all use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227e5bc5565a69477bacf8c811a67a0704\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee0d2bd4fab44375bca52feef0aa27e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee0d2bd4fab44375bca52feef0aa27e1\u0022\u003ETAMATI COFFEY (Labour\u2014Waiariki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What recent announcements has she made about managed isolation and quarantine facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220b0829b338ba491f993d7b2f08f44bfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b0829b338ba491f993d7b2f08f44bfa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E On Sunday, Air Commodore Webb and I released the findings of the end-to-end review of the managed isolation and quarantine system. The review found that the system was under extreme strain and identified that resourcing capacity was not sufficient to carry out planning, there had been insufficient structure and role parity, and there is a need for a clear chain of authority. Communication and coordination of procedures and policies needed improvement. It is important to underscore that we are one of the only countries in the world even attempting managed isolation at the border. We know that there is no playbook for this kind of pandemic. These facilities were stood up in April, and this review recognises that there are some aspects of the system that need to change for it to cope with the increasing demand of returning New Zealanders. Air Commodore Webb and I have been working, and will continue to work, on improving our systems and our managed isolation and quarantine facilities in response to the review to protect the hard-won gains we have collectively won as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44dd4399b9c4a22bf7833e90cada0c0\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What action is the Government taking in response?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4621bbd24c44afb57edce3b04720df\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Even before the review concluded, we began swiftly addressing resourcing issues. We\u2019ve doubled the on-the-ground Defence Force staff, bringing the total number of Defence Force personnel to 168 people across 21 facilities. Resourcing will continue to be a strong focus for the Government as we continue to cope with the increasing demand for returning New Zealanders. The Government announced, yesterday, $150 million for personal protective equipment (PPE) for front-line health workers, including staff at managed isolation and quarantine facilities. We are working closely with Health to ensure PPE guidelines are up to date and consistently applied. Finally, we have improved communications with returnees at all points of the returning process. A comprehensive information pack is provided to all returnees, and, critically, nobody leaves a managed isolation or quarantine facility without returning a negative test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec2d3ea9b5554958bde5e7586fdc429b\u0022\u003ETamati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: How is the managed isolation and quarantine system protecting New Zealanders from COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de749df59864190a9138fc064712620\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: We know that our borders are the strongest line of defence in protecting our communities from COVID-19. We also know that around the world the virus is growing, not slowing. With the increase in New Zealanders returning from overseas, we need rigour around our border, and our managed isolation and quarantine system becomes even more important. The system we have in place has worked well up to this point. We have no community transmission, and cases are being picked up at the border. What this review highlights is the strain the system is under. We are working swiftly to implement its recommendations and ensure that the systems in place are able to transition effectively from the immediate response phase to a more permanent solution\u2014and why we are not just rushing out for calls to open up the border further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee2c87c82b18486098b69231e694ac9f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc32a31e23954a7ca214bb11ae4bf7e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc32a31e23954a7ca214bb11ae4bf7e9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is he responsible for COVID-19 testing; if so, how many of the 2,159 people who left managed isolation between 9 and 16 June were tested prior to leaving and returning to the community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00227f323175a41640b8a088b1f8271ead00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f323175a41640b8a088b1f8271ead00\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I said when answering a similarly worded question last week, ultimately I have ministerial responsibility for the entire public health system, which includes oversight of the testing regime. In response to the global pandemic, New Zealand has arguably the strictest border measures in the world. More than 20,000 people have completed 14 days of managed isolation and quarantine, and there is no evidence that any have gone on to transmit COVID-19 into the community. As has been publicly reported on the Ministry of Health\u2019s website, of those who left managed isolation between 9 and 16 June, 800 had completed a test before leaving the facility, a further 484 have now been tested since they left managed isolation, and all have returned negative tests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25b70445b4d461aafc4f6e09b4d67c4\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that health staff had to phone those who had left managed isolation, to determine whether they\u2019d had a test before leaving, because the records could not determine who had and had not been tested?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022851f2cbbbec5411989ee50c73e7af7bf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: The testing regime was not working as had been intended. That was made very clear at the time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cca3ed2fe5ba4899a99a7088206c232b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229071a43aa07a4d7a91de819c6bc2c34a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and those who have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e36d77448546e58cdac0ecc90da36b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member will resume his seat. The member will withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afab74647fd47ad840f7b73c97a2382\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229184f5363e5645369ffedf35d341a5a8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022097d56a31d0f4a229efdd4d3cc3fa5ee\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: And that is why those phone calls needed to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022536ebd2abdd343f7b72ecddee45b99be\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question referred to the phone calls having been made, but the answer did not address the question of whether that was because records could not establish who had been tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce570f3ca884edcac163a7f8f209b5c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the question had been addressed, and I think it had actually been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239b57b8ab9a04f24a945f1db47336a59\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Did Ashley Bloomfield say yesterday \u201CThere are still 367 with whom we are having trouble making contact\u2014not for want of trying\u2014with text, where possible, email, and repeated phone calls.\u201D, because those records had not been kept?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220acf1f3ba1e84e9c9d575241e0238f28\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, phoning up those people is the quickest way to ascertain all of that detail, and, yes, Dr Bloomfield, I believe, did say those statements, although I don\u2019t have them in front of me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ab70dc8d3124c41944b7f3ac919c0e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports as to whether or not a non-returning homeless person who wandered in off the street has received a test?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f5f42b913f4d98acbe45fa8a1772a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have not been made aware of any homeless people receiving a test at a managed isolation or quarantine facility. Claims about breaches of protocol at these facilities would be very serious indeed and anyone making such claims should be taken at their word. I would encourage anyone with information about breaches of protocol to front up with that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb62b06b8fd5408d8098c43b769f371c\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How many of those 2,159 people have not been found by the Ministry of Health, and can he confirm that the Ministry of Health will use the finding services referred to by Ashley Bloomfield to locate those who aren\u2019t picking up the phone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225313732de2374b06875993ffb44a2fc7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that a number of them have already been handed over to finding services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218f7c99f8f649f49f39b5fb5594ff00\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister as to whether or not this mystery homeless person, not 2,159 but 2,160\u2014whether his name has been established and was it Pinocchio? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a80b9e8e7214d429908b4b802d95798\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member knows that\u2019s ironic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ed950daa4948138acd5a1ba2e13096\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: In respect of his previous answer, would they be the same finding services that, according to written question 5744, failed to find more than half of the 1,800 people they were referred between 6 April and 20 May?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435abc9225e14778b793d96a55f6d5c4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure where the member has got those statistics from, but what I would say is that the most important thing here is that managed isolation is the most secure way we know of in the world. There\u2019s no global playbook for this virus. It\u2019s spreading faster than ever. And what we see in New Zealand is that that is working. We\u2019re one of only two countries, as far as we know, in the world that has managed isolation and quarantine facilities that are Government mandated, and we\u2019ve got no evidence that any of the over 20,000 people that have been through have gone on to community transmit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022742870f29fa34e82b16b00922a5a814b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Would he not agree that the finding service would not be required had he been better at testing them while they were actually in managed isolation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228546b6ec88ba460cadd5c89f1aea095e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: I tend to leave the testing to the clinical experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c781768b4f4fbb82c09cd9a7b3b9bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Would he not agree that the finding service has better things to do than look for mythical homeless people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f70e8e695e48c88d59a19f133b38d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022983491814ca74eebb7f55134afbfb778\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Social Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4e024df884498596ff9652a1f95eec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll warn now that I have been informed that the answer to this question is very long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002207318d2b501148fe855488eb3f021521\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207318d2b501148fe855488eb3f021521\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development: Is she satisfied that she has good financial oversight of her portfolio; if so, how much has been spent on each of the payments listed on Work and Income\u2019s A to Z webpage in each of the last three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00221cae6935c3684be7be9b5d5b1660732a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cae6935c3684be7be9b5d5b1660732a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and, as I have previously noted in my response to written parliamentary question No. 10913 (2020), this is a substantial request that requires considerable time to process, notably because it goes beyond the Ministry for Social Development (MSD). There are 61 payments or supports listed in the Work and Income A to Z. Not all of these payments are primarily administered by MSD and not all of them are funded entirely by Vote Social Development. I also note that to answer this question fulsomely would require over 180 different figures to be listed. I can advise the member that for 2019/20, the amount spent for the 11 months ending 31 May 2020 are $5.440 billion on main benefits, $14.336 billion on New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension, and $3.118 billion on supplementary assistance and hardship assistance. In 2018/19, $5.386 billion was spent on main benefits, $14.56 billion was spent on New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension, and $2.978 billion was spent on supplementary assistance and hardship assistance. In 2017/18, $5.088 billion was spent on main benefits, $13.862 billion was spent on New Zealand superannuation and veterans pension, and $2.160 billion was spent on supplementary assistance and hardship assistance. In total, Vote Social Development expenditure was $36.896 billion for the 11 months of 2019/20, $26.174 billion for 2018/19, and $24.067 billion for 2017/18. Can I assure the member that a more fulsome response will be provided as soon as that information is available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d7a63f9eb954d3f9f228a006f4815dc\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How much money, if any, has been spent on the employment transition grant over the last three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868848ea360143c48152eab5b11b6e0f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I have said, there are 180 payments to be processed here. I did say to the member, in writing, that we could get that information to her. I actually said, I think, that it would come via the Official Information Act. I\u2019ve reviewed that, and, actually, we will give it to the member in a written answer to her written question. It does just take some time, for the reasons that I\u2019ve already outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af36b0ffd724735bb664a36db3c9b8b\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: How much money, if any, has been spent on the transition to work grant start-up payment over the last three years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e25a835e3d74c2098e48bf79e5a848e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I refer to my previous answer\u2014that I am more than happy to give the information to the member in writing, but I cannot rattle off 181 different payments that were made over three years in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022754e6b20686e445b9d7331a65c295039\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned, with the largest unemployment crisis in decades, that she doesn\u2019t have current information on spend, including on key employment support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744e694483f044ff9eca9f8099ec0e24\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not concerned, because I reject the premise of the question asked by that member. I gave the substantive response in my primary answer. There is more information to come. There are reasons why\u2014as I laid out, one being that some of these payments are not made by the Ministry of Social Development and it takes time to collate\u2014it takes a little bit of time, and I will give that information to the member, in writing, as soon as it is available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d0a8cfc4514e72bf0fd27dae2cd682\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a priority for the Ministry of Social Development to be increasing their support for people getting into work, and, if so, how can she measure this if she doesn\u2019t know what\u2019s currently being spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022351785402cd043239972c4def2ec1f54\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5db26f68522469c9d71bc7f998e6a85\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does it concern her that taxpayers are funding 111 people in an insights team at MSD, when they can\u2019t even provide insight into what her department\u2019s spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224be0ccc3c04348ba97ab1f4e88e48ca7\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject the premise of the member\u2019s question. I think I\u2019ve laid out very clearly why I can\u2019t rattle off the 181 different payments over three years in the House today and it would be more appropriate for me to give that information to the member in writing. I\u2019m actually very proud of the job that the Ministry of Social Development has done during this time, particularly during this COVID period. They have worked incredibly hard to roll-out a wage subsidy that has supported over, I think, 1.6 million New Zealanders during this very uncertain time, as well as rolled out the temporary job loss cover, as well as continued to support New Zealanders who are experiencing hardship and needing Work and Income support. I\u2019m very proud of the job that the Ministry of Social Development has done and, as I\u2019ve said, I reject the premise of that member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90f1b88582649aaaaad7ce3652df152\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just going to invite the member to make a slight correction to her answer. I think she said there were 61 areas for three years; that\u2019s 183, not 181.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8cc3c5e14c244b3b6a514cc0d324b64\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I so correct my answer, Mr Speaker. Apologies for my maths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d429954b239f4379ba2c9e031d3f2810\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Regional Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022b890d592532247f4b870d8debaa8e49b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b890d592532247f4b870d8debaa8e49b\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: What recent Provincial Growth Fund announcements have been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1eab7a899446448c51e39760bd24cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1eab7a899446448c51e39760bd24cf\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last week or so, the leader Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters, under-secretary of regional development, and myself have been incredibly busy in the vineyard of economic development. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485e20a935084ad1b49134fdfb6bf022\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s better than the tobacco plantation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e57d08ef9364b8392f0688ccf11b437\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Initially, we made announcements in Whakat\u0101ne and Rotorua, which reflected the desire of the Government to accelerate developments in association with established leaders from local government, not the least of which is former parliamentarian the Hon Steve Chadwick, who is the mayor, who is driving the redevelopment of Rotorua through a refurbished museum programme and a host of new tourism options for domestic tourism in the Whakarewarewa forest. In addition to that, Whakat\u0101ne, an area that has suffered some bad news recently, they also received high-quality political attention through the arrival of the Deputy Prime Minister and the allocation of money to accelerate those projects. And, with a small level of modesty, I announced the kauri dieback sanctuary in the area of Northland, which will get the nephs off the couch and futureproof the existence of kauri in a historic part of New Zealand that has cried out for attention and suffered after the nine years of neglect under the former regime. But, as they\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39d960f0baf43d5be44778a98bb95d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b3f04c5c094ffca4eae2cf049a1985\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding Taranaki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d947d5510ef7440699923b581406b0d7\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Following on from the former Treaty of Waitangi settlements Minister, Minister Finlayson, we have allocated some p\u016Btea to Parihaka to add substance to the apology the Crown made under the former Treaty Minister. These announcements were shared between myself and the current Treaty of Waitangi settlements Minister, and it is to futureproof the infrastructure of that iconic site. It has been widely supported\u2014much to my surprise\u2014by every single mayor and civic leader in Taranaki, as they want to see even-handed development, fair development, and they realise that such iconic sites have much to contribute to the future of Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5a5d0541cf4daa80eb8461a9c3d394\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How have these recent announcements been received across the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d84fdc9345be450892638f6a3a0639c8\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Whakat\u0101ne Mayor Judy Turner has identified that these infrastructure projects will develop and create momentum and jobs and will lead to the growth of Whakat\u0101ne, an area sadly written out of the script under the last economic model. More importantly, Steve Chadwick has described my announcement as \u201Cicing on the cake\u201D, aided, no doubt, by the arrival of the Deputy Prime Minister and the man to my left, Fletcher Tabuteau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0791c6de3504ec4938faa61abd29454\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00226d2e26fa37a245628beea067a2f54d86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d2e26fa37a245628beea067a2f54d86\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: Is his Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act 2020, as assented on Monday, good law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223de948b7cb4a4783a5012f6f98214be1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223de948b7cb4a4783a5012f6f98214be1\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill was good law and had been subject to extensive scrutiny by Cabinet, officials, the Justice Committee, and the public. The substantive change in the bill as passed by this House is clear: prisoners sentenced to three or more years of imprisonment remain disqualified from voting. It remains illegal for those prisoners to cast a vote. However, last week, the National Party voted on three aspects of the bill. First, they voted to not extend voting rights to all prisoners. Secondly\u2014[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6a0376fc4dd48dd9553ef6af5ec2a16\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220782476b56844846819f60034880567d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: First, they voted to not extend voting rights to all prisoners. Secondly, they voted for prison managers being required to inform all prisoners, regardless of length of sentence, that they are qualified to be registered as an elector of an electoral district\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614754ec5c90466cadca4e23330ce816\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. Order! Order! The balance of the answer to this question will be heard in silence, other than from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265728714842445999bcd5635886361c8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Second, they voted for prison managers to be required to inform all prisoners that they are qualified to be registered as an elector of an electoral district, regardless of their length of sentence, and that those prisoners are required to apply to the Electoral Commission for registration to vote. Thirdly, they voted to abolish the power of the Electoral Commission to remove from the electoral roll the names of people who are disqualified from voting. The amendments that the National Party voted for are clearly inconsistent with each other and with the policy consistency of all elements of the bill. It also puts the Electoral Commission, prison managers, and sentenced prisoners in unworkable situations. And, today, I have introduced an amendment bill that will ensure that the new law functions as Cabinet intended it to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb37c593513c474da05359811ba8fa7f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What was wrong with National voting for a Green Party Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that removed eight clauses from his bill when we opposed his bill, or is it now the Government\u2019s view that it is the Opposition\u2019s job to clean up the mess of warring coalition partners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860b9b56a5fc4a26abf3c50e8be16039\u0022\u003EHon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If you were to rule that there is ministerial responsibility for the first part of that question, on which the second part hangs, that would certainly open up quite a wide range of questioning possibilities that the Government would welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236336ecfe2e4cbcb87192384ad528c4\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, with respect, Mr Speaker, we just listened to a considerable diatribe from the Minister of Justice trying to explain how he managed to get this bill into such a dreadful state, in a way that was entirely designed to make it the fault of the Opposition. The reality is that he did not talk to his coalition partners and could not control his bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234b9dec89dc4e2b97ee913ec0c83f6b\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I think the question that Minister Hipkins raises is whether the Minister has responsibility for the Opposition\u2019s voting, when, clearly, the Opposition isn\u2019t responsible for their own voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e185837b4f964afa84db12c968554b84\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think all of us know what the answer to this is. The Minister has no responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4609c7f74dd4127a4c86ebb09cf4329\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224433f9bd21f04b4c9f3360576a82bd5d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, Nick Smith first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb0a5a80e2e4ea4961588f9c0bbeac5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a7c846d4e0d41ae871d3080d5ae61f7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Because he\u2019s only had one crack, you know? You generally get two attempts to get a question right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca5b43331a2434ebf5ba5364843a65c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Been here continuously longer too, mate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ecefc7cc3664e9abead9fcd80c44d7c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] The member will resume his seat. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722eb24acbb04711a182eef0ffd06647\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022462932b995c44a4ab1030aa93f667cd5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister of Justice whether he is saying that, as things now stand, as a result of the voting from the members of the House the other night\u2014he knows who they are\u2014that the person charged with the Christchurch massacre is now entitled to be approached by the prison officers and put on the electoral roll of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a326e74ff01141c0bc884bdbd170dbc7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As a consequence of the voting the other night in Parliament and the support given by the National Party to some parts of a Supplementary Order Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0b404945254204a47610db65498503\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: The National Party voted for that, did they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d257cfb455a4d2a936d4de52b8e7375\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Who was that? The member will leave the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759e6bf5524d402db96b3771dbd38c4c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was very, very clear about the answers being heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb384b4a0eb46d0b26670c1cb42122f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As a result of the voting the other night in Parliament and the National Party\u2019s support for an obligation on prison officers to advise prisoners sentenced to any length of sentence that they are required to be on the roll, it is correct that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1b81fa723f45bc96f0d00169b9d7bd\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: The Government SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e52c65e2ac4d4d20b59e88f4baf22f14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Who was that one? Who interjected then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a132412a920441a9618f6908c2b3e33\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I did. Sorry. My apologies. I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e8442cdeb24aba8dd6795ca9fae6ca\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As a consequence of the voting last week in Parliament and the National Party\u2019s support of an amendment to my bill that required prison officers to tell prisoners of any length of sentence that they are required to enrol and to provide that information to the Electoral Commission, it is correct that, on sentencing, whenever that happens, the person who has admitted guilt for the Christchurch massacre will, under the law as it stands, be required to be advised that he is entitled to enrol on the New Zealand electoral register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a61971996548de828e239b22792090\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did, at third reading, the Minister commend his bill to the House and vote for it under urgency when it was clear it was flawed law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e6d7bc76e3e491084ee6ad49c831e10\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The bill sought to overturn the insidious decision of the National Party in 2010\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264f4724f6ce042dc9ecfe2a0608d13d5\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Parliament\u2019s decision!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022488ff8b821774d399017dda382e26012\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, who was that one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e6879928434f63859b1228ec117327\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266f5b422b934e1f8fb71028a5ea3cb2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just wondering\u2014[Interruption] No, the member will resume his seat. I\u2019m just contemplating. I have given some leniency to his colleague the shadow Leader of the House\u2014much more leniency than I gave to the junior member from New Zealand First. I\u2019m just contemplating what good reason there is for the rule to continue to be unevenly applied to the detriment of one side of the House and not the other. If the member, by way of point of order, gives me a good reason, I will contemplate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cecdade579b441f9bf43c1f2d8151b66\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Two things\u2014firstly, when you ruled silence in the answering of the question, it was interpreted by many, including me, on this side of the House, that that related to the answer to the primary question, which was extended. Secondly, if it is for the entire question, the quid pro quo, surely, is that the Minister, in responding, cannot be as provocative as he has been in every supplementary answer he has given, and expect that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c93a237144fc422082968b56dd412be5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I\u2019ve heard enough. I only need to deal with the first part. The member saw me toss another member out for interjecting on a supplementary answer. [Interruption] Just because it\u2019s a member for New Zealand First doesn\u2019t mean that the rules change for everyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68e4cd6fafe404dbe094c7580561f54\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not sure I finished answering the previous question. I\u2019m more than happy to complete the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f2fd38dcda14c3ba9ef7dec04a47295\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We are asking for fairness. We accepted your ruling. We are asking for fairness. We accepted it when the shadow Leader of the House was not called out because he is the shadow Leader of the House, but it cannot be that New Zealand First gets penalised when every other backbencher, therefore, or frontbencher, of the National Party can break your rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288166e53ebe54e0e8ded3545accd3e9b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll sort of ignore the fact that that is a reflection on me, and I will say that it has always been my practice to be slightly harder on the parties on my right than the parties on my left. I know that members do not always see it that way, and I know that there has been, every now and again, some public criticism as to that\u2014loudly, on some occasions from my left in public, and, privately, quite loudly in my room from people on my right. I do, however, tend to try and run the Parliament that I used to referee children\u2019s sport, and that is I was a little bit harder on the home team than I was on the opponent. That is the way I will run it. But I will give fair warning: if there is any more interjection from my left, those members will go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54d6f06c6d44224b5272c93b40ac718\u0022\u003EHon Gerry Brownlee\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for making that clear. Can I just say, sir, though, we are a little bit perplexed that we\u2019re being asked to listen to the answer to this question in silence, when the Minister of Justice is doing his very best to blame a difficult or a messy situation on the National Opposition. That has been the theme of his answers so far. What it tends to avoid, though, is the fact that, knowing that there was a problem with the bill, he still had his party vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250ba0f4270fc4d58bb5550e6a8d35075\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I support the law and supported the third reading because the law responded to the overwhelming findings, critical findings, of the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal that the 2010 law that disqualified prisoners\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0b1767aae734acf9cdfb167101b8ca4\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbcac6271fda424697e6760d179ece9e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014serving sentences of less than three years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241dffbcd37fa47919deee7e6ae4456c4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. Who was that? Who interjected then? The Hon Clare Curran will leave the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran withdrew from the Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022528e05a6d6cb463ab32c677f92a353d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the member has answered the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bf397b114b3425a946e323003a9f254\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government block National\u2019s motion to refer the bill back to the Justice Committee after the committee stage, when it was obvious to everybody in the House that the bill was flawed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55fb9b0aa364936b3840be7618a5b49\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: It was very clear from the pattern of voting by the National Party on the night that its voting was the product of a crazed mind. So there was no wisdom in acceding to the request of members opposite to refer the matter to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f40fdccb4b6c48ef9af0e4acda6de06c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Now, the Minister will withdraw and apologise for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a734393634ab4c04ae4cb95969df5a36\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have made no reflection on any individual. I referred to a voting record that has to be explained somehow or another.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022553ddb53a5894dc2810bb54c4e5bd47a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And the member will now withdraw and apologise again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225045cb117b1a46f6be95676a00948ccd\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb8b02a5b1a4b5284f19bd98b3471da\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement by Andrew Little MP in 2015\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CElectoral law is too important to be rushed under urgency.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05ba0a642f84e27bca838f0d975a958\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with the proposition that electoral law should be given proper scrutiny. Ideally, it should not be the subject of member\u2019s bill, and I don\u2019t think New Zealanders should be easily shorn of their right to vote, in the way that that member did with his Canterbury Regional Council legislation some years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b4db43a1b04fa8a661c49baf3961f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that this is the fifth electoral amendment bill to which he has passed under urgency, and that is more than any other justice Minister in the history of New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207ea8f67a2574bd1b831fb95e006e3b5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I can say that electoral law, like most justice legislation in this Parliament, has gone before a select committee that is equally divided, that is usually not capable of producing a majority decision. But, in any event, there are problems in our electoral law, sometimes identified by the Electoral Commission and other independent bodies, that it is proper for this Parliament to rectify and to correct. In the face of overwhelming findings by our High Court, our Court of Appeal, our Supreme Court, and our Waitangi Tribunal to say a law is manifestly unjust, it is incumbent on myself, as justice Minister, to bring that to the attention of Cabinet and the Government and, ultimately, to Parliament, which is what has happened, and that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got the result we have now on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2307017755b4b9081b1173fe62416cf\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former Attorney-General the Hon Chris Finlayson, who said that the law that he has amended \u201Cappears to be inconsistent with section 12 of the Bill of Rights Act and that it cannot be justified under section 5 of [the] Act.\u201D, and also that the objective of that bill was \u201Cnot rationally linked with [a] blanket ban on prisoner voting.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022163ed6a7b5694cdbb5e68b3da81a6829\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I agree with those comments made by the then Attorney-General, as, indeed, to the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal. I just say, if there\u2019s any question of irrationality, something was clearly on display last Wednesday night in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcd31c9110de4146a53e3c3ce13db090\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd7a43af2514e27a4177f3afcd64bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd7a43af2514e27a4177f3afcd64bcc\u0022\u003EJO LUXTON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What steps is the Government taking to bridge the pay gap between teachers working in ECE centres and those working in our kindergartens and schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d712ea6414f749e69f0067d78b031a75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d712ea6414f749e69f0067d78b031a75\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This year\u2019s Budget provided a funding boost for early learning centres up and down the country to help bridge the gap between the pay of early childhood education centre teachers and teachers in schools and kindergartens. As a consequence, pay boosts for up to 17,000 qualified teachers working in education and care services kick in from tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263613b91f07646b4ba7f98a25094d703\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Will these changes fully bridge the pay gap? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226111596bdad34324816160dfe1dc980a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, no, they won\u2019t. While this funding will go some way towards levelling the playing field, fully closing the gap between education and care services and kindergartens will be a challenge to be addressed over a number of Budgets and it requires more than just additional funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022094facb5d7ce4d50b5f7276ff31df5a9\u0022\u003EJo Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Why has it been important to start on tackling the pay gap now? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3927bb2f53424991d6b0c8831b4c7f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As we respond to the impact of COVID-19 on our economy and on our society, the Government remains committed to fair pay for low-paid workers, especially the workers who have helped to get the country moving again. A significant pay gap had built up over time between these teachers and those in schools and kindergartens, following the decision nearly 10 years ago to stop passing on to education and care services the funding rate increases that kindergartens got to meet the cost of pay settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222122816ecce34c55abcf34494fc50fd5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022599c2dfbcb1b482b9522a7173030dd03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022599c2dfbcb1b482b9522a7173030dd03\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National\u2014Hutt South)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Will he cancel the increase in fuel excise duty and road-user charges that come into effect tomorrow until after the election, in light of his Auckland light rail process ending; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002251626a4f78234da5b8b088801340d70b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251626a4f78234da5b8b088801340d70b\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E No, because the project hasn\u2019t ended. Cabinet has directed the Ministry of Transport and Treasury to continue work on Auckland light rail, and if re-elected, we will continue with the project at pace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ffd1c013119474380d83064234a51b2\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: God loves a trier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6de48876d23464288a509867667d225\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0d7c98d86846a8819e456d3bfe6b9b\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e97aadb100e45b58a5b4da34d8ed39f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think you withdraw and apologise, so I\u2019m consistent with your senior colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268c0227fa25e454ca46deb04e3fa589d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker. I thought I was sotto voce. Why will New Zealanders be paying even more at the pump from tomorrow, when the multibillion-dollar light rail project the fuel tax rise was meant to help fund has been canned?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e8d950579924ff78954733fe37f2a0f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I object to the premise of the member\u2019s question. The project hasn\u2019t been canned. We are investing billions of dollars in transport infrastructure to boost jobs and grow the economy. That\u2019s our focus, and, frankly, I\u2019m surprised that the member is advocating cutting the transport budget, because if he hopes to be elected to Government, how\u2019s he going to pay for his ghost roads? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdf72105a2bc4fbab82ebe54624200cf\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that once the excise increases 3.5c tomorrow, prices will still be approximately 40c per litre cheaper than they were in January?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265dda83b6d4649b5a4190d549960c9c1\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm that petrol prices are currently lower than at any time since 2017. But that\u2019s not enough for our Government\u2014that\u2019s not enough for our Government. The Hon Megan Woods is about to bring legislation to the House that will introduce a raft of changes to make the fuel market more competitive and lower prices at the pump.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d710bf9091484a84b842091389d83d7e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the road carriers forum, who describe the fuel tax increase as \u201Ca kick in the guts\u201D, when throughout the lockdown the road freight industry kept the country moving, delivering essential supplies including medicine and food?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d930840523c482f8d644681e9459eda\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s true that the road freight industry and the rail sector kept the economy moving and moved vital freight throughout the lockdown. That industry is absolutely dependent on us building good quality transport infrastructure to serve the freight supply chain. That\u2019s what our transport budget is intended to do, and taking $2 billion out of the transport budget for the next 10 years, which is what that member is proposing, would reverse all of that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084f604d89554c27bc1e58467db262ef\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t this the very worst time to be raising fuel tax, with household budgets under huge pressure thanks to the economic effects of COVID-19?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fca348887d3c4d6095561284f7e335ab\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is very concerned about the impact of growing expenses on household budgets, but many low and middle income households now receive the Government\u2019s Families Package, which puts an extra $75 a week into their pockets. Think about the Best Start tax credit, changes to the accommodation supplement, and Working for Families\u2014not to mention nearly $12 billion put into New Zealand businesses and their employees through the wage subsidy scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc009731bc6346848aa55ea8ff08d8b4\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he raising fuel tax at a time when the New Zealand economy is going to go into a recession the likes of which we haven\u2019t seen for a generation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a68af944ce34dd9a1313539192ade16\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m surprised that last week the member was expressing concern about reducing transport revenue and the deflationary effect on the economy and the loss of important transport infrastructure projects. Now he wants to cut transport revenue. He really can\u2019t have it both ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221df24a75f42f4faea1fa057815938bf7\u0022\u003EGinny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister heard from any stakeholders recently on whether he should halt fuel tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2eb4295350644908fca93b33e0afd66\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I heard yesterday from the Automobile Association. The AA said that they are not calling for fuel excise duty and road-user charges to be deferred as they did previously, because they recognise that current economic conditions have already reduced transport revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b54bf5fe51394ece9529c375f314893e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229b6467a3f4584ecfb5883c4a1643ae99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b6467a3f4584ecfb5883c4a1643ae99\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Conservation: What is her response, if any, to the comments made by the chairman of the New Zealand Game Animal Council that the Department of Conservation\u2019s tahr control plan was \u201Cnot founded on adequate science and is a departure from plans previously supported by the hunting sector\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022479dcfa8455a4a02960d1434035bf636\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022479dcfa8455a4a02960d1434035bf636\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E It is public knowledge that the Department of Conservation\u2019s (DOC\u2019s) operational plan to control Himalayan tahr is subject to court action in the High Court, with Forest \u0026amp; Bird seeking a declaration, on the one hand, and the Tahr Foundation seeking an urgent injunction against the draft plan being implemented, on the other. I understand the matter has been set down for a hearing next week. As the matter is before the courts, it would be inappropriate for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022badc7c01fc7c436482b7faa8282a3bf2\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: What is the estimated cost of the Department of Conservation\u2019s tahr cull for the current period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e653e8af60ad4b5f94f682efd690cd10\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: As the matter is before the courts and this goes to the matter before the courts, it is inappropriate for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b052a34e56b84c919219e9b0d96e5fc6\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Why should taxpayers have to pay for DOC\u2019s tahr control plan, when there is a large group of recreational hunters in New Zealand who have already reduced herd numbers by 1,800 over the last three years and who wish to make a further contribution in this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ad4cbb29c84578b362fe55c4931e72\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: The matter is before the courts. It would be inappropriate for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265b8975cfd6545baa165e79b91bda10a\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the New Zealand Deerstalkers\u2019 Association, who say that DOC has conducted a rushed process this year with a lack of the usual consultation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af51d9d4d7ba460ea375dd86508458a6\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: The matter is before the courts. It would be inappropriate for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234aeb26a0ff94f4bac7ce71591650bb5\u0022\u003EHon Jacqui Dean\u003C/span\u003E: Why was the tahr plan implementation liaison group only given two days before feedback was required from them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d22526adcf47a5a2bf31839d7ae43a\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE\u003C/span\u003E: The matter is before the courts. This is part of that matter. It\u2019s inappropriate for me to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002290886f41efac4cb0b90b648116bd83b7\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022904d4e92aa7f41fb87512abc9fc9bc25\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand\u2014Ratification of Funding Agreement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022be4dd2cea2a449f593d8fcf3f4611b7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be4dd2cea2a449f593d8fcf3f4611b7e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That, pursuant to section 161(2) of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 1989, the House ratify the funding agreement entered into by the Minister of Finance and the Governor of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand pursuant to section 159 of that Act on 16 June 2020 and presented to the House on 24 June 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EUnder the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, the Minister of Finance and the Governor of the Reserve Bank enter into a five-year funding agreement. This is an important instrument for maintaining the bank\u2019s operational autonomy, in that it provides multi-year funding, and specifies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6c8e5c88b8494499bd6d8dbad5cf02\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Quiet for the Minister, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e345dae5b64074ba74cd70dd9cba23\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a very important matter, Madam Speaker; that\u2019s right. It provides multi-year funding\u2014[Interruption]\u2014you\u2019re already short enough\u2014and specifies the amount of revenue the bank may retain to fund its operations. The new funding agreement will apply from 1 July 2020 to 30 June 2025. The bank\u2019s funding proposal, which underpins this agreement, focuses on addressing critical risks to the bank and the financial system. The bank considers it necessary to respond to areas of past under-investment and address critical risks to its ability to deliver its mandate. Furthermore, the scale of the downturn from COVID-19 means it will be more important than ever that the bank is sufficiently resourced to undertake the full range of activities required of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe new funding agreement will see the bank\u2019s core operating expenditure profile\u2014which excludes the cost of issuing bank notes and coins\u2014increased from $69 million in 2019-20 to $111 million in 2021, and $118 million in the final year of 2024-25. The bulk of this increased spending will focus on expanding and enhancing the bank\u2019s core activities, particularly investing in financial, supervisory, and enforcement capability, as recommended by the International Monetary Fund\u2019s 2017 financial sector assessment programme review. Spending will also be directed towards the bank\u2019s day to day operations and investing in the upkeep of its assets. This includes modernising the technology infrastructure and keeping security architecture up to date, designing a suitable vaulting and distribution system for cash, and expanding the bank\u2019s reach to stakeholders in Auckland. The spending will also cover preparations for changes to the bank\u2019s governing legislation. The bank\u2019s future legislation will bring a number of changes to how it operates and significantly enhance the bank\u2019s policy frameworks and governance settings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bank is a full-service central bank with a wide range of responsibilities, such as prudential supervision, monetary policy, lender of last resort and liquidity, and liquidity management. Whilst comparisons are not like for like, benchmarking against other central banks the bank\u2019s expenses are comparatively low. Expenditure under the new funding agreement would continue to be relatively low compared to other central banks. Compared to its 2019-20 budgeted baseline of $80 million, the average annual uplift of $46 million in operating expenses is split across three areas. For people, $20.7 million: fulltime-equivalent (FTE) numbers are planned to increase from 296 FTE in 2018-19 to 468 FTE in 2024-25. The majority of these staff will be assigned to improving our regulatory policy settings, undertaking additional research, and providing more intensive supervision and enhanced enforcement capabilities of regulated entities, as well as enhancing the bank\u2019s information technology capabilities. The second area is operational expenditure of $17.9 million. Investment focuses on modernising the bank\u2019s technological infrastructure and investment into banking services such as settlement systems and cash systems. And the third area is $7.4 million on assets. This is driven by depreciation of financial stability data system investments and depreciation of property and security system investments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bank\u2019s revenues typically exceed its expenses, with any excess revenue paid back to the Crown through an annual dividend after allowing for the bank\u2019s capital requirements. To maintain the effectiveness of the funding agreement framework, I have agreed to the bank\u2019s proposal to remove certain operating expenses from the scope of the funding agreement which are difficult to predict or commercial in nature. Excluding these activities is not expected to materially impact the operating expense numbers above. A statement of expenditure under each of these items will be reported in the bank\u2019s annual report. It\u2019s worth noting that Treasury is supportive of the substantial uplift in the bank\u2019s resourcing, and particularly of the bank\u2019s intent to increase its financial supervisory capability. In assessing the bank\u2019s proposal, the advice given to me by Treasury noted that capacity constraints across the public system exist. The bank has assured me its plans are feasible, that it will draw on a number of recruitment strategies to support its FTE growth, and that it will take an all-of-Government approach to its IT investment strategy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bank\u2019s actions can and do materially impact the prosperity and wellbeing of New Zealand. The Government expects the Reserve Bank to use the resources available to the best possible effect and deliver excellent outcomes when exercising its functions, taking into account their statutory objectives and the Government\u2019s broader economic objectives. Ratification of this funding agreement will ensure the bank continues to remain operationally independent while also equipping the bank with the resources it needs to maintain its objectives of price stability, maximum sustainable employment, and financial stability. I therefore ask for the House\u2019s support in ratifying this funding agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e087a121e2154cd2b058519d3ba93419\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e087a121e2154cd2b058519d3ba93419\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party will support this motion. We do so, however, with some misgivings, which I\u2019ll come to later. But we certainly need a strong Reserve Bank in this country in order to perform the important roles that it has around price stability and, latterly, its focus on employment, and certainly the stability of the financial system at a time when the economy is weak and where we entered the COVID recession already in recession with a slowing economy. We now face an enormous increase in our public debt and the need for households in New Zealand to pay back that debt over the next few years\u2014an extra $80,000 per household of debt has been signalled in Budget 2020. So we have a critical period in the economic life of our country coming up, and it certainly requires good economic management from the elected officials\u2014and we\u2019ll be outlining our case for that over the next couple of months\u2014but it also requires strong financial institutions, and the Reserve Bank is one of those. So it should be appropriately funded, as it has here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOne area of concern, though, is it is a very substantial increase in spending. In the 2018-2019 year, the bank spent $76 million. So it\u2019s increasing it 50 percent, up to $115 million as outlined in this agreement. A 50 percent increase in your spending is fairly substantial, and if that was the general pattern across the public sector we would be in a terrible financial situation. It worries me somewhat that the Minister of Finance has been so ready to agree to the scale of this increase, and it certainly behoves the Governor of the Reserve Bank to justify that carefully. We\u2019ve seen significant increases in staff and significant increases in the social media team from five to 14. We\u2019ve seen a substantial increase in communications, now up to 17; and the overall staff numbers are going from 250 up to 468\u2014a colossal increase in staff numbers in the Reserve Bank. We\u2019d like to hope that all of those are justified, but we worry that there might be an element of elephantiasis emerging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ECertainly, we would normally expect the Reserve Bank to lead by example in the public sector. If we go back to the earlier period, say, when Bill English drew up this agreement from 2010 to 2005, what was envisaged was a 1 percent increase per year. Now we\u2019re in an era of 50 percent increases. Well, of course, what does it matter? Money grows on trees, as some people would think. But it doesn\u2019t actually grow on trees. So, before you increase things by 50 percent, you have to have very good justifications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, there is some justification in the extended remit of the bank and the further supervisory work that it needs to do. And that, again, is something that needs to be carefully watched. I mean, every year the IMF and other people will say we need to do X, Y, and Z. But it is a concern of ours, on this side of the House, that the greatest growth industry in this country in recent years has not been exports, has not been food produce, it\u2019s not been rockets or anything like that, it\u2019s actually been compliance. Compliance has been the greatest growth industry in this economy for a long period of time. The Reserve Bank has been very much at the forefront of that. Some of that is justified, but some of it needs to be questioned because, ultimately, it\u2019s consumers that pay for all the compliance that is added right across the banking sector in those areas regulated. Some of it absolutely is justified, but we\u2019d be expecting the Reserve Bank to be watching that very closely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve also seen is the extension of the bank\u2019s work. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act gave the bank enormous powers in terms of it being independent to conduct monetary policy. So it\u2019s unusual and unique across the public sector in that it\u2019s given a bunch of money and it is independent and doesn\u2019t answer to Ministers in the normal way. The deal was that politicians didn\u2019t have a control over monetary policy in the lead-up to elections, which we were worried about. There were some examples where the temptation was for Ministers of Finance to reduce interest rates, to have a short-term boom in the year before the election to get through. Now we have a similar concern around a Minister of Finance having $20 billion in a potential slush fund in an election period\u2014that\u2019s equally of concern. But in terms of interest rates, that\u2019s why we had an independent Reserve Bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, the question is, if the mandate starts to expand, it\u2019s expanded into employment under this law to focus on not just price stability but also to influence employment\u2014that\u2019s OK. But it does seem to be extending further and further into climate change. So this bank has substantially increased its focus on climate change and a bunch of other issues that haven\u2019t traditionally been regarded as the core preserve of a Reserve Bank, which has been focused on price stability. I suppose the warning or the concern that I\u2019d like to express is that the further a reserve bank goes away from a very narrow focus on price stability, the more it will start to draw into question the absoluteness of its independence as it goes into more areas where there\u2019s much more dispute. If you talk about climate change policy, for example, there is much more dispute\u2014the Greens will have a very strong view, we\u2019ll have a strong view, and that\u2019s fine. That\u2019s appropriate. That\u2019s democratic. But it\u2019s not necessarily the appropriate preserve of an independent institution such as the Reserve Bank. So I\u2019d signal that warning, and some of the extra funds that have been consumed by the Reserve Bank relate to these areas, such as climate change, which are not necessarily what people would ordinarily associate with the focus of the Reserve Bank. So I\u2019d ask them to bear that in mind and also to focus on the expansion of the overall workforce in the bank.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo look, I\u2019d be very keen to know and will be pressing the Reserve Bank Governor at the next opportunity about what percentage of the increased budget is necessary in terms of the price stability objective, what percentage of it\u2019s necessary in terms of the financial regulation objective, and then what percentage relates to climate change and other activities that are not core activities of the bank in the narrow definition that I articulated earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, in terms of the $60 billion that the Reserve Bank\u2014of course, the topical element is that it\u2019s moved into this quantitative easing. I would be supportive of extra resources being in place for the bank to do rigorous and proper analysis and to release that. There\u2019s a lot of material, if you read the material from the bank\u2014a huge amount of material about openness and transparency and the way that they go about doing business. It is important that we have real clarity around their understanding of the costs and benefits and risks of the $60 billion of quantitative easing that it\u2019s carrying out at the moment and the bonds that it\u2019s buying and what the timeline is and what the process is for returning its balance to pre-COVID levels. What is the plan to get it back? Now, if they put the $60 billion into the system, what is the exact plan to unwind that? If you look around the world, it\u2019s not obvious how that works very effectively. And are there any lines in the sand that the bank won\u2019t cross in terms of direct funding of Government debt? At the moment, it\u2019s purchasing debt on the secondary markets, and there\u2019s plenty of international activity of that sort. But does it cross the line further into direct funding of Government spending or, indeed, private sector spending? That is a widespread concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAll in all, National Party supports this motion. We support a strong and independent Reserve Bank. We are worried that the country is entering a time of economic crisis. We are not confident in the overall political direction that we\u2019re seeing. We\u2019re seeing a Government which seems to think the economic plan is to spend whatever it takes to get its polling numbers up to the election and spending whatever it takes to get to the election and then sending the bill in terms of higher taxes. They may not necessarily agree with the wealth taxes proposed by the Greens, but we\u2019ll wait and see. What we need is a Government that has a focus on growing the economy and enabling private sector investment, which will be the core to getting New Zealand out of the economic jam that we\u2019re in. That party hasn\u2019t delivered too much on that side, but the National Party will in the next few days. So thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022 data-id=\u00225e01bf48f5ec408eb5a2b583667bc31f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e01bf48f5ec408eb5a2b583667bc31f\u0022\u003EFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Congratulations to Paul Goldsmith, the member opposite, on managing to politicise a motion on the Reserve Bank. I just want to make the comment that he made observations about his own skill set, and I challenge the member to put up his CV to the New Zealand electorate, because I will be putting up mine, and I would rate my CV compared to that member\u2019s, who wrote a couple of books that we now use as bookends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, I just wanted to talk to one other point that the member made before I get on to the substantive nature of this motion. He spoke about the compliance costs. I just want it noted that the National Party called for a bonfire of compliance, but in the nine years that they were in Government, the quantity of compliance put on business and the cost of that compliance was historically unprecedented. Business have had to deal with that, and this Government is working to make sure that we can bring that down\u2014and I thank you for your patience in letting me make those points, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EJust by way of background to this motion, what we\u2019re here debating in the House is sections 159 to 161 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act of 1989, in which the Reserve Bank Governor and the Minister of Finance are obliged to come to agreement with one another on the funding of the operations and sundry of the Reserve Bank itself. Obviously, with today being the day, it was five years since this was last done, because that is the formality of the requirement under the legislation, and so the agreements have been arrived at, but we are now required as a House to ratify those agreements between those two persons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo what we are trying to do here is ratify a 2020-25 bid by the Reserve Bank Governor, as it were, and it does have to be noted that one point that the member opposite made was a valid one: this is a significant increase in funding for the Reserve Bank\u2014this is a lot of money. He did start and finish his speech by noting that he and his party will support the bill, but he rightly pointed this part out, and there is an element of agreement there\u2014this is nearly a 50 percent increase. But I would note, and I\u2019m sure the member opposite read it, maybe, when he wrote his speech, that, actually, the obligations of the Reserve Bank to actually\u2014well, let me put it another way. The Reserve Bank does not receive appropriations through the Government\u2019s budgetary process, so the bank\u2019s revenue typically exceeds its expenses. So what we\u2019re asking for today is for the bank to be able to retain more of the revenue they receive in order to fund those operations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank funding proposal highlighted that it is an efficient and relatively low-cost central bank. I think even the members opposite will acknowledge that historically, we in New Zealand have had a strong and stable financial system, and that is very much to do with the good performance of the Reserve Bank over its time. Actually, the Minister of Finance did make this point: it\u2019s quite fair to compare the cost of the New Zealand Reserve Bank to overseas comparative banks, and one of the points that needs to be repeated for the members and the New Zealand public is that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has actually a much larger mandate than most of the other reserve banks or central banks that we would compare ourselves to\u2014for example, the UK, Japan, and the US. We here take full responsibility through the Reserve Bank for supervising our retail banks and insurance providers, for example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EWhat we are trying to do, or what the Reserve Bank Governor is trying to do and what this Government supports, is to make sure that the New Zealand public can have confidence in its operations, so we are undertaking an incredibly focused increase on protecting the wellbeing of Kiwis by stepping up the oversight of the financial sector. The previous member noted that the IMF noted that this particular section was a weakness of the Reserve Bank, and, yes, there is an element of reply to the IMF report, but, actually, it\u2019s been duly noted by this Government and the Reserve Bank themselves previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank has also identified that it needs greater investment in order to address the critical risk to both the bank itself and the New Zealand economy over the coming years. As has been noted, this is a period of unprecedented change in the New Zealand economy, leading to an increase in risk and uncertainty, and\u2014with your forbearance, Madam Speaker\u2014I\u2019d like to quote the Reserve Bank Governor. He said, \u201Cit is a substantial and important increase, which means the Bank can address the critical risks to delivering its mandate, respond to areas of past underinvestment, and establish a long-term model to promote the wellbeing of New Zealand. The bulk of this increased spending will focus on expanding and enhancing the Bank\u2019s core activities, particularly investing in financial supervisory and enforcement capability, as recommended by the [IMF].\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003ESo I just close by briefly summarising what we are hoping to achieve with this agreement and what will be achieved with this agreement. It will help the Reserve Bank look into the future as well as secure the present, which is critically important as COVID-19 injects uncertainty into our economic environment, and we absolutely call for certainty as we move forward. New Zealand First believes that our country\u2019s banking and insurance systems must work for the benefit of all New Zealanders, so it is pleasing to see greater resources set aside for just this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e11a5f05-1940-41b2-8f1e-911dba7a43a5\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank is, in the international context, an efficient and well-run institution, and so we support them in their application. The Reserve Bank also focuses on protecting employment by updating its monetary policy settings and making good progress on broader review, so this agreement represents the continuation of this Government\u2019s commitment to ensure that the Reserve Bank is a healthy institution that protects and assists all New Zealanders. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022c583d5fc01e742b1a9c510a446e2b4f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c583d5fc01e742b1a9c510a446e2b4f8\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I am standing on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand this afternoon to support this motion and to have our position placed on the record along with other parties in this Parliament. I think it\u2019s important, firstly, to respond to some of the commentary stated in closing by the spokesperson for the Opposition on finance, Paul Goldsmith, particularly in regard to a policy announced over the weekend by the Green Party, where he spoke about our taxation policy and kind of held himself out as a fantastic economic manager, but then later went on to himself admit that he had got the maths wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOf course, what this agreement does, fundamentally, is provide the bank with an annual average of $115 million a year for its operations over the next five years, with a further average of $13 million a year for the issuance of currency. I\u2019d like to join with other members of this House in recognising, fundamentally, the importance of the independence of this institution, of its advice, and of the tools that it utilises. In my contribution today, I would like to highlight the bank\u2019s new dual mandate, which was alluded to by the Hon Paul Goldsmith. It is to set monetary policy in a way that maintains, obviously, price stability and supports maximum sustainable employment. Also, it is to bring together climate change and jobs and to say that the best way to fulfil that dual mandate is actually to address the climate crises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to address the points made, particularly by the Opposition in this, because they hypothesise that, perhaps, speculating on things such as the climate crises or the environment was outside the remit of economic thinking. To that point, I think it\u2019s really important that we actually consider, when we speak about the economy, not just in this Chamber, but within people\u2019s lives and within society and across the world, that the economy isn\u2019t some out there deity which we sacrifice to when it\u2019s angry. The economy is, in fact, actually our collective resources and the wealth that all of us together create. It also is the rules that all of us place around it, and in Aotearoa New Zealand I think that we are incredibly fortunate for the price stability that the Reserve Bank plays a role in creating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThese five-yearly funding agreements sit outside of the political cycle, which helps to protect them from the politics of the day. This means that the Reserve Bank can focus on making sure that the financial system is stable and works for everybody as best as possible. And as I\u2019m sure that most people would agree, a financial system that works is one that responds to the crises that we face. The most significant of those right now is the existential crises of climate change or global warming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThere are a number of important tools that are available to the Reserve Bank to do this. The first is understanding climate-related risk. There are two types of climate-related risk. The first is one which we\u2019re all familiar with: that of extreme weather and its increasing severity and frequency, and it\u2019s pretty clear what those risks are. Of course, earlier this year we saw the consequences of climate change exacerbating the bushfires in Australia. But the second and less talked about is transition risk. By this, we mean the risk that occurs when organisations fail to change the way that they do things so that we can move from where we are today to where we need to be to tackle the climate crises. Some people call this the \u201Cjust transition\u201D. In other words, it is the risk that occurs if companies do not change their business models to shift their operations to align with the sorts of change that needs to occur to bring our emissions down, and, in fact, will occur regardless of whether we engage with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe reason that this poses a risk to financial systems is that without the requisite knowledge of how exposed businesses are to climate change, central banks risk lending to organisations that are not changing in ways that they need to. This is what people talk about when they are talking of stranded assets: lending to businesses that are not adjusting to the reality of what we need to do moving into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThis is one of the things that the Reserve Bank has been concerned about recently: making sure that this information is readily available, making sure banks that lend to businesses and to other investors can be sure that the organisations that they are lending to are thinking about our collective future and acting in a way that is consistent with the direction that we in this Chamber have set for the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETypically, the financial system has taken a rather short-term view in its decision making, pushing longer-term problems into the long grass. But proper mandatory disclosure of climate-related risks will help to change that, and it is something that the Reserve Bank has been pushing for. That disclosure will enable risk assessment and mitigation, and incentivise investment in emissions reduction and adaptation. It means that the Reserve Bank\u2014New Zealand\u2019s Reserve Bank, our Reserve Bank\u2014can consider climate risks when making decisions that affect the type of country we live in and pass on to future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt will also serve to constrain the climate-related financial risk taken on by the banking sector. Climate-related financial risk would mean any activity that is not consistent with a 1.5-degree world. One of the reasons that the Reserve Bank has been calling for this mandatory reporting of climate-related risks is they know it is necessary if they are, in fact, to fulfil that dual mandate. One of the questions in all of this\u2014a question banks will be asking themselves\u2014is whether the Government is serious about this transition to a low-carbon economy. Of course, when it comes to this Government, the answer is yes, because we have built an enduring framework for a better future, and, in doing so, set the direction for future investment and innovation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo what happens when we confuse price with value? Well, we end up undervaluing the very things that make us who we are, like caring for each other and for our planet. We need to redefine those kinds of concepts of value to take the action that is requisite to make life better for each other and for future generations. Financial investments will, of course, never be a substitute for ambitious climate policy and action by Governments. In fact, of course they shouldn\u2019t be, as has been emphasised by multiple speakers so far in this debate, but these financial investments and these instruments can and should amplify those policy decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust in closing, given that other speakers have sought to reference others\u2014other academic thinkers, others who have been engaged in economics for a while now\u2014I think that it is most pertinent to reference Herman Daly, who hails from institutions such as the World Bank and Yale University as an economist, who said, \u201CThe economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment, not the other way around.\u201D The Greens support this motion and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c4f25fb5c7e4398993b67cb3875fe85\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244ac28c0318749dbbd04b9791cbe2edd\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002238d3cfed6d724627958579ba432c80fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d3cfed6d724627958579ba432c80fc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the passing through all stages of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2); the first reading, referral, and instruction to select committee of the Fuel Industry Bill; the second reading of the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill; the committee stage of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill, the Rates Rebate (Statutory Declarations) Amendment Bill, and the Taumata Arowai\u2014the Water Services Regulator Bill; and the first reading and referral to select committee of the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBy way of reasoning, the reasons for the urgency with the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014the need to progress that under urgency\u2014were well canvassed during question time today and will be familiar to members of the House. With regard to the Fuel Industry Bill, progressing this under urgency through its first reading and sending it to a select committee will give the select committee additional time than if we waited until Thursday, when it would be above the line and therefore available for first reading through the normal processes of the House. The balance of the legislation that I have put in the urgency motion simply progresses one additional stage of those bills to help compensate for the lost time that Parliament was not sitting during the COVID-19 lockdown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIf the urgency for the first two bills is completed before 10 o\u2019clock tonight, it is the Government\u2019s intention to end urgency and to move the extended sitting that we have already notified the Business Committee of. What I did not want to see happen, though, was urgency to run into early tomorrow morning and then finish and thereby lose those additional hours, which is why the other bills have been included in the urgency motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221ec31ec26fba4a62a709ace5af031fbb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a757959660b2476b96b7b598fa80f820\u0022\u003EElectoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe7536651c9743598cdd715b108241d2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002203fddb8bdbb94b85a29306e58fccb297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203fddb8bdbb94b85a29306e58fccb297\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill does a small number of things consequent upon the passage and the Royal assent being given to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill last week. What this bill does: whereas the previous bill restored the right of prisoners sentenced to sentences of less than three years to vote, what that bill did not do, following the voting last week, was allow prison officers or prison managers to inform only those who are qualified to go on the roll to be informed of their right to go on the roll. In fact, what happened was Parliament supported the proposition that, even though it had voted for some prisoners previously disqualified from voting now to vote, all prisoners were obliged to be advised of their right to be on the roll even if they\u2019re disqualified. So this bill rectifies that and allows prison officers to gather information and provide that to the Electoral Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd then the other thing this bill does is restores the power of the Electoral Commission to remove from the electoral roll those who are disqualified from voting. The voting in Parliament last week took that power that was in the current legislation and removed it, and so we were left, after last week\u2019s voting, and in the legislation as it then was at the end of the third reading, with a situation where prisoners serving more than three years were disqualified from voting but those prisoners were obliged to be advised that they could enrol, and prison officers were obliged to do that and to collect their information and to provide it to the Electoral Commission. And then also, as a consequence of last week\u2019s voting, the Electoral Commission lost its power to remove from the roll those disqualified from voting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s salutary to learn how it is that we got here. The Electoral Act was changed in 2010. Let\u2019s remember, too, just how important the Electoral Act is. It governs the rules of our elections. It goes to the heart of our democracy. So when this Parliament is dealing with matters of electoral law, it should not act trivially; it should act solemnly and seriously. So the law was changed in 2010\u2014as a consequence, I might add, of a member\u2019s bill in the name of a National Party member. No consensus was achieved, but the majority prevailed and the law was changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat law was the subject of scrutiny on a number of occasions, by no lesser institutions than the High Court of New Zealand, the Court of Appeal of New Zealand, the Supreme Court of New Zealand, and the Waitangi Tribunal\u2014all of whom found that law to breach our international obligations, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and the Treaty of Waitangi. It was found to be manifestly unfair and unreasonable. There is a basic principle underpinning the law as it was up to 2010, and that is that if you are a prisoner at the time of an election but you are sentenced to less than three years, you are going to be free before the next election and you should have the right to have a say on those who are leading the country that you\u2019re going to be released into. That\u2019s the fundamental principle. It wasn\u2019t what Parliament decided in 2010, but it had decided this year. So this legislation went through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn fact, what is interesting is the fact that the idea of prisoners having the right to vote restored to them was the subject of submissions in the select committee\u2019s inquiry into the 2017 general election, as well as previous electoral legislation that went to the Justice Committee. What is also interesting is that, when this legislation came into the House and went to the select committee\u2014when I say this legislation: the bill passed last week\u2014it was the subject of more than 2,500 submissions, 78 percent of which supported the legislation, wanted that change, wanted the manifest unfairness approved in 2010 to be removed and the principle restored that those serving sentences of less than three years be allowed to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, one of the things we expect in this House\u2014particularly amongst the two major parties\u2014is that we act and we vote and we conduct ourselves rationally and consistently, in accordance with principle. I know members opposite have said\u2014they said last week, and, in fact, have certainly said since last Wednesday night\u2014that they voted in a way that they have voted before. That is actually not correct, because there is nothing on record to show, for example, that the National Party supports the idea that disqualified prisoners should be required to enrol. The National Party has never voted for that. There is no record in any Parliament in the history of this country of the National Party\u2014at least since 1936\u2014supporting the idea that disqualified voters or disqualified prisoners should be allowed to enrol. And yet they approved a law that said prison officers are obliged to tell prisoners of whatever length of sentence they must enrol, to collect that information, and to pass it to the Electoral Commission. There is no record from any Parliament since 1936 of the National Party supporting the idea of the Electoral Commission not having the power to remove disqualified voters. But last week the National Party voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EYou see, the thing is this: when we come to this Parliament as responsible MPs, we do not come here to conduct ourselves as if we are in the junior common room of high school. We come here because we have a responsibility to voters. When we are considering issues of our electoral legislation that goes to the heart of our democracy, is it too much to ask that all members conduct themselves responsibly and properly and in a principled way\u2014because, with all due respect, that did not happen last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWho could predict that the grand old party that sits opposite, a party with a great reputation, the party of John Key and Bill English, the party of Dame Jenny Shipley and Jim Bolger, the party of Sir Robert Muldoon, and the party of Doug Graham\u2014great justice Minister\u2014the party of Sir Keith Holyoake and Sir John Marshall\u2014who would have thought that the party of those towering figures of New Zealand politics would conduct themselves in the way they did last week? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224239f65883c04053ba012c8a29cea51f\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022725d6e85182d452eae713c132b86e52c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I tell you, Mr McAnulty, I think some members opposite embarrassed that great party last week. We might be political opposites, but the great thing about the parties in this House\u2014I can say of the Labour Party and the National Party and New Zealand First and the Greens\u2014is that we come here with respect for the institution of Parliament and we come here to conduct ourselves responsibly and professionally and with a sense of principle. Sadly, that did not happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, I expect members opposite\u2014or one, at least\u2014will leap up and defend themselves and say \u201Cchaos\u201D and \u201Cshambles\u201D and all the rest of it, because they are covering up their own absolute craziness. Anybody looking at that pattern of voting last week will look at that and say no one could possibly explain how you could justify those positions. You would have to be completely and utterly mad to think you could vote that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f9672794fb9446888a945af7b2802f8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019m not\u2014and I\u2019m not. So don\u2019t bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f94afd183a0416f96009f090ce776e9\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I apologise for casting any adverse reflection on yourself. I\u2019m still getting to grips with the rules around the use of the word \u201Cyou\u201D. But can I just say this: anybody looking at the voting pattern last week\u2014last Wednesday night\u2014of the National Party would say, on an objective basis, that that voting pattern reflects something that looks like a level of craziness or stupidity that we don\u2019t often see in this House. In fact, I struggle to think of an occasion when any party has voted so haphazardly, in such a crazy sort of way, like some sort of, you know, mad mosaic gone completely crazy. I have never seen anything like it. But that\u2019s what happened last week, and this House ought to look with considerable embarrassment at what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI say to members opposite: over the next 10 weeks, you are going to troll around the country and say, \u201CLook at us. We can do a better job.\u201D But, actually, what they proved last week is that the state they\u2019re in right now they are unfit to govern. They cannot make up their mind what they believe in. They have no principle, and they think that it\u2019s OK to muck around and faff around with this Parliament, its procedures, its laws, and our electoral law. That reflects poorly on each and every one of them, because none of them stood up and said, \u201CThis is a little bit crazy. Can we just sort of get back to common-sense world?\u201D, because they\u2019re not in common-sense world; they\u2019re in a different world. They\u2019re in a world that none of us has ever seen in this House before, because they voted in a way that was just completely\u2014well, I would say deranged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo now we have to clean that up. A responsible Government comes in and says, \u201CWe\u2019ve let the children have their say. Now we come in and we clean it up.\u201D I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8589ac61f84449ab831eb156494be74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8589ac61f84449ab831eb156494be74\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to say to the member that I\u2019m not sure that the word \u201Cfaff\u201D is quite a parliamentary term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249184586b3ed44c093dbc014a56f7f1a\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I have used it before, but I take the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a6bd58bd044d519a96e54ba68e0553\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Have you? Not when I\u2019m in the Chair, I\u2019m sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00227aaa45a803414f9cadabc7f21025a04f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227aaa45a803414f9cadabc7f21025a04f\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E National\u2019s position on the contentious issue of prisoner voting has been known for a very long time. We have a simple view, and it is that, if someone has offended against the laws of the land to the point where a judge has sentenced them to prison, they should neither be able to stand for this Parliament nor should they be able to vote in a general election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not an unusual position. That is the position in the United Kingdom. That is the position in the majority of liberal democratic countries around the world. It is a position that we have argued for more than a decade. It is the position that has been part of the law of the land of New Zealand for more than 80 percent of our country\u2019s history. And it is a total shambles that a law that got the assent of the Governor-General only yesterday is now having to be amended today, and no amount of bluster and rudeness and personal attacks will take away from the Minister of Justice, who took a bill through a third reading of this Parliament, knowing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8c5a6975a224cb9b8328c940c21ff00\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: He voted for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc337eebc9c450cbdcc0920e9fa3852\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and voted for it\u2014it was bad and contradictory law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ELet me firstly deal with the issue of why National opposes prisoners voting. The average number of offences that are committed by a person that is sentenced to prison in New Zealand is 24 convictions. The sort of notion that\u2019s presented by the Government\u2014that these are people that have made one little mistake in their life\u2014our corrections law makes plain that the only people that go to prison are those where the judge believes that all other options have been extended and will not work. And, secondly, it\u2019s a very practical issue. I\u2019ve been privileged to be Minister of Corrections and I have talked to many corrections officers, and they would say it is impracticable to run an election in a prison. The nature of prisons is that we limit people\u2019s freedom of association; we limit their access to information. We can\u2019t have political candidates of all persuasions going through our prisons and campaigning for votes\u2014it\u2019s not practicable. And equally, on this side of the House, we think it is a theoretical nonsense for prisoners to be able to stand for Parliament. Parliament is a serious, full-time job. It\u2019s something we have to do with a great deal of energy and effort, and the idea that someone who\u2019s serving a sentence in prison is able to stand for Parliament is a nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the Government argues that somehow the mess that has required this bill is somehow the responsibility of the National Party. Let me go through exactly what did happen at the committee stage. The Green Party introduced a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) not just to give those who had served a sentence of less than three years the vote but to give all prisoners the vote. National does not support that position; we voted against that Supplementary Order Paper. At Part 2 of the bill, the Green Party had an SOP that removed six clauses in the Government\u2019s bill. We don\u2019t support the bill; so we voted for the Green Party SOP to gut Mr Little\u2019s bill. Now, somehow Mr Little argues that us voting against his clauses was somehow unprincipled\u2014that somehow it\u2019s the responsibility of the National Party, because there\u2019s a row going on between Labour and their Government support party, the Greens, and they can\u2019t vote together; somehow we on this side of the House should vote for provisions with which we do not agree to patch up a mess of a coalition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve seen some amazing speeches in my day, but let me make something very plain to the Government: it is not the Opposition\u2019s job to vote for bills or clauses with which we disagree to patch up the chaos in the three-party coalition that makes up the Government. But here\u2019s the more extraordinary part: here\u2019s the Parliament in urgency, fixing a bill that was botched in urgency. What we did at the third reading of the bill is we said to the Government, \u201CYour bill does not make sense. Your bill\u2014because parts of Mr Little\u2019s bill have been lost\u2014creates a legal nonsense.\u201D We said, \u201CIt\u2019s going to make prison officers behave illegally, and so what we should do is refer the bill back to a select committee and fix it.\u201D We sought leave of the House for the bill to go back to the Justice Committee so that the fiasco that had been created in the controversy and disagreement between the Labour and Green parties could be fixed. And did the Government admit there was a mistake at third reading? Did the Government allow the bill to be referred back to the select committee? They simply bulldozed on under urgency and rammed it through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThere is a rule in this Parliament that says that you do not have the third reading of a bill immediately after the committee stage. That is there for good reason. That is there so that then a Government or Parliament can reflect on a bill after the committee stage, ensure that the way in which the various bill has come together is sensible. The Government chose to overrule that good process, ram the bill through under urgency, and it is solely their responsibility that we now have a nonsense bill on our law book.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s just reflect on the process that this bill has been through. The issue of prisoner voting has not suddenly come up in 2020. If anybody looks at Labour\u2019s election policy in 2017, they said it was an issue then. Why did they not introduce a bill in 2017? Or 2018? Or 2019? Why is it that the Government only, at the last moment, in the beginning of this year, bring a bill and then shorten the process and try to rush it through the Parliament? And it was worse than that. The Parliament was adjourned with the greatest national emergency that our country has seen in a generation, and when the Parliament was adjourned, the Leader of the House said the only legislation that would be progressed during the suspension of the Parliament would be that which was vital to addressing the COVID-19 emergency\u2014that\u2019s what we heard in this House. Then why was it that they insisted that the prisoner voting legislation continue to be rammed through the Parliament while the nation was in an emergency? Can a member opposite explain this to me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are facing the greatest curtailment of their freedoms in a hundred years. They\u2019re not allowed to leave their home, they\u2019re not allowed to freely associate, they\u2019re not allowed to protest, they\u2019re not allowed to do so many things, and what does the Government say the priority is? The priority is getting prisoners the vote. That was an insulting process. We even had the Minister in charge of this bill writing to the Justice Committee, urging us to rush it through and saying to the committee\u2014letter from the Minister to the select committee saying\u2014\u201CWe are not going to be able to provide the normal standard of advice to the committee on this bill.\u201D Little wonder, then, that we ended up with the hashed, shambolic bill that we now have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EHere is the correct position: we have a shambles in our electoral laws. We have a shambles at the border. We have a shambles in KiwiBuild. We have a shambles with light rail. And if any piece of legislation was going to highlight the incompetence of this Government, it\u2019s that, for the very first time that I\u2019ve seen in 30 years, a law that was only passed last week and received Royal assent yesterday is facing amendment today. And no matter how much spin, no matter how much nastiness oozes from the Government benches, it is the parties of Labour, New Zealand First, and the Greens that voted for a shambles of a bill at its third reading. I\u2019m proud that National voted against that bill. It was a mess, and this mess simply illustrates the extent to which the Labour Party will play tricks with the electoral law to try and score a few more hundred\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220d77ceb3e0a042c995b05c9b83536b06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d77ceb3e0a042c995b05c9b83536b06\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022 data-id=\u00226081bbb7a96f479289c32b004b3a9b90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226081bbb7a96f479289c32b004b3a9b90\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, \u014Dtir\u0101, ng\u0101 mema o Te Whare nei, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. The only shambles in this House is that contribution by that former Minister\u2014the only shambles in the House is the contribution of that member, Dr Nick Smith, who just resumed his seat. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s come back to the principle of the bill. The principle of the bill means that people sentenced to less than three years in prison will have their voting rights returned. That\u2019s the bill. But I don\u2019t just agree with that. It was the law in this nation before 2010. It was the law of the nation in 2010, in this country, that every prisoner had the vote under three years. But who changed that? That side changed it. That side changed it despite their own member Christopher Finlayson talking about the breach of human rights. But it also talked about how the High Court, the appeal court, the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal really went to task about the law disenfranchising prisoners. So the Minister has brought this bill to the House, and that is what we are debating in this first reading: to return to prisoners sentenced to less than three years the right to vote, as in 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to talk just briefly about the select committee, because there have been some allegations in this House around the short process. It couldn\u2019t be anything wrong or misleading in terms of the people in Aotearoa New Zealand who submitted on this bill\u20142,500 written submissions. And not only that; over 17\u00BD hours that we heard in evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI also want to pick up on that former member who made the allegations around the lack of support from the justice ministry. They couldn\u2019t be further from the truth. We had a very comprehensive departmental report and officials supported the select committee throughout its deliberation of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc62a98789064463aec033bb2a9f5582\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: They couldn\u2019t give a full report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231735a3eb674495da2c9ed98f4753da0\u0022\u003EHon MEKA WHAITIRI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they did\u2014yes, they did. But I want to just, in the time that I have, talk about what the side means in terms of voters and the role of rehabilitating many of our prisoners back into society. Because we heard that submission from many submitters, around the importance of connecting prisoners under three years back into their communities, back into their families. This is what this bill is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s also part of a broader suite of electoral reforms, like being able to enrol on election day. Who\u2019s done that\u2014who\u2019s done that? The coalition Government did that. It was also around putting ballots in supermarkets and making it accessible for many people. This bill should be seen in the wider context that we believe the democratic rights of Kiwis to vote is critical, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re debating here in this first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to comment about the shenanigans that went down last week. The Minister\u2019s ably covered that in his contribution. But I am proud to be on the side of this House, in the coalition Government, that recognises the democratic right of prisoners serving less than three years\u2019 prison sentence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022073496a0-73b7-426f-97f8-916bd542b0fa\u0022\u003EI want to again acknowledge the 2,500 people that submitted, but particularly want to acknowledge the young people that appeared before our select committee that talked about human rights, that talked about the bill of rights of all New Zealanders, who also talked about the importance of the Waitangi Tribunal. I couldn\u2019t be more proud of the younger people coming through this country who take the view around electoral law, around rights of prisoners, that seriously. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc90d435025f45b988d9f93489bb7659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc90d435025f45b988d9f93489bb7659\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on this bill, and I just want to refute a couple of the comments the chair of the Justice Committee, Meka Whaitiri, made. She made out like the Justice Committee was going through a very rigorous process in regards to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. What she didn\u2019t tell the House is that legislation regarding sexual violence and first responders was delayed so that this bill could be rammed through during lockdown. Whilst New Zealanders were being locked down in their homes to fight COVID-19, her committee, on the instruction of the Minister, was ramming this piece of legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251017ecbe7fc47bda8eff6e7bb549e45\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member who\u2019s just resumed his seat has made an assertion that the select committee acted under my instruction. That reflects poorly on me as a member, and I invite you to take action accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279230c6b89a942ebad8ec842641c3954\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the Minister wrote to the committee. In the letter from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Andrew Little, he urged that we pass the bill quickly. He said in his letter that officials would not be able to provide\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f6d88322f894ec9972145ee422dd224\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: That is just not correct, Dr Smith!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b324d935cd9941fea304cbf39025bde0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This is in silence. [Interruption] Order! Have you finished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224057b7a0e4a949a08ad2818f2cd9113b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: The letter from the Minister to the select committee urged that the bill be progressed rapidly. It said two other bills should be slowed down. It also said that the officials would not be able to provide the normal standard of departmental report. I think the easiest way to clarify the point would be for me to seek leave to table the justice Minister\u2019s letter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b9aa82350c434b8d3951b435c496a6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: My ruling on this\u2014[Interruption] Please. My ruling on this is that this is a new bill. The bill that went to select committee was a different bill. We are now in urgency debating the No. 2 bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a219abf4d6114aa7bed88885dc06846a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be83426784934e72b85ee34703491638\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m on my feet. Wait. And we\u2019ll go back to Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5333c2dbeb7459eacca72a8140811ef\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. We\u2019ve just heard from Meka Whaitiri. During her contribution, she made absolutely no reference to the bill that\u2019s currently before the House. Her entire speech was about the No. 1 bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a586ba4922cd4ccd89e53764e7f0668d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not a point of order. Those are debating points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fba953aac1f42b2aabb10626d27b96c\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The select committee had a letter sent to the select committee from the Minister urging them to make changes to their work programme during lockdown. The point here is that, during lockdown, the Justice Committee was spending its time focused on giving prisoners the right to vote rather than focusing on far more pressing issues that New Zealanders would want them to be focused on, and during a time when the Leader of the House had said that all non-COVID business would be set aside. And this comes to the process that we are facing with this bill now. The previous bill was rushed and is bad law, and that side voted for the bad law at third reading, and now here we are again voting for another bill, rushing it through under urgency to try to fix up their mistakes, which they supported at the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe history of this legislation has been rushed, the history of this legislation has been under urgency, the history of this legislation has been to get things through at all costs before the election, because they\u2019re hungry for a few more votes on election day. The first reading of the previous bill was done under an extended sitting, the select committee was rushed through during COVID-19, the second reading was done through extended sitting, and the third reading was rushed through with the committee of the whole House during urgency last week. And I want to remind the House what the Supplementary Order Paper did which was passed by the Green Party. It required Corrections to assist all prisoners to enrol to vote if they are sentenced\u2014all prisoners were required to be enrolled to vote, or Corrections was required to assist them\u2014whereas the legislation said that only prisoners who had sentences of less than three years were actually required to be enrolled. So, essentially, the bill which was passed by the Government was an unworkable piece of legislation, and they had the opportunity last week, when Dr Nick Smith gave them the opportunity, to send the bill back to select committee to be able to fix up that mistake and that error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EEssentially, what that bill did, which the New Zealand First Party voted for, was it said to the prison managers that all prisoners had to be told that they should enrol to vote\u2014all prisoners. The New Zealand First Party voted for that piece of legislation. The New Zealand First Party voted for a piece of legislation which says that Brenton Tarrant should be enrolled to vote. That is what the New Zealand First Party voted for last week. They\u2019re going to get up in the Parliament soon and try and make all sorts of excuses about the process and try and blame it on the National Party, but the third reading, prior to that piece of legislation going to Royal assent, was voted for by Darroch Ball and the New Zealand First Party. And they should hang their heads in shame as they speak on this piece of legislation. I look forward to him taking a call and trying to explain to the very few New Zealand First voters left in New Zealand why he did that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe National Party\u2019s position is very clear on this issue: people who commit a crime in New Zealand, who commit an offence where they are sentenced to prison, lose their right to vote. It\u2019s simple. If you do the crime, you do the time. And that is the simple principle of the matter. The Green Party have a separate principle. They believe that all prisoners should be able to vote, and that\u2019s a fair enough principle. But the Government comes at this from a very strange perspective. Well, that is something which is completely untenable, and it doesn\u2019t matter how many times the Minister tries to stand in Parliament and say there\u2019s a principle around why prisoners who are serving sentences of less than three years is different from prisoners sentenced to longer than three years, there is no principle to the matter. It\u2019s just convenience, and he\u2019s trying to make it more palatable to New Zealand voters rather than to actually be truthful about what he actually wants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c10a78748943f29c03e44c02c4b6b6\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker There\u2019s yet again another reflection on me as a member of this House, that what I have said is not truthful, and I take offence at that assertion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e01133cae19c4d78bae599367cfecd39\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, in terms of the member\u2019s aggrieved feelings, I would just draw your attention to Speakers\u2019 ruling 53/3. It says: \u201CThe cause for a matter to be withdrawn \u2026 is not that one member feels aggrieved\u201D. Effectively, the member\u2019s reaction is, basically, irrelevant according to that. It\u2019s whether the House itself is affronted. And that\u2019s not the case. The member here being disappointed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e903e1885b964d39b7e8ac774f801183\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s unparliamentary language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d185f98b94a14d9bb2bbc2ec64703134\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s the reality of it. It\u2019s a debating point; not a matter to be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f0f593011414cdc8319a667025692eb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The member made a statement, which I won\u2019t repeat, but in my opinion is out of order, and the member should withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa2f1cc027642d29627cf4f351be23a\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker. The Government is feeling very precious about this piece of legislation. And the Minister finds it offensive with what\u2019s said, but when he calls me \u201Cderanged\u201D, I also find that offensive, for the way the voting was done. He voted for the bill at the third reading last week. I did not. The National Party did not, but he did, and the New Zealand First Party did. They voted for it at third reading. Knowing that the bill was unworkable, they\u2014and the Green Party; they voted for it too. All three governing parties voted for this piece of legislation at third reading. That\u2019s what I call deranged\u2014that\u2019s what I call deranged\u2014when they vote for a piece of legislation which they know is unworkable and knowing they have to come back to the House to fix it up and use urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI was talking about our principle on this side of the House. Our principle is very clear: that those who commit offences in New Zealand, those who commit offences in NZ who are sentenced to prison, lose their right to vote. They lose their right to stand for Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2bb15c17c54d2ab509f7d32ded70e3\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: When did you find your principle on that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e937718377346469263a4a4404283a8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And I would like to remind Darroch Ball that he\u2019s standing up for people who have committed, on average, 24 offences to get where they got. That\u2019s what he\u2019s standing up for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EA submission from the Sensible Sentencing Trust, where they noted in 2018, 2019\u2014he used to be the bastion of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, but no longer any more. He\u2019s only got 1 percent so far. As noted in my written submission, 2018/19, from the Sensible Sentencing Trust, there were 1,929 serious violent offences sentenced that year to three years or less\u2014for crimes such as manslaughter, sexual assault, abduction, and acts intended to cause injury. That\u2019s the type of offenders that the New Zealand First Party is standing up for in Parliament today. This bill, as with the previous bill, has nothing to do for victims of crime. This bill affords more rights to those who are prisoners who have been convicted of serious criminal offences and does nothing for victims of crime. This bill gives a process for prison managers to assist prisoners to get on to the roll. What about victims who want to have some help so that they can have their name put on the hidden roll so that they don\u2019t have to be harassed, so that they can have some privacy? Where\u2019s the process? And he laughs at me when I talk about harassment. There are people in New Zealand who are afraid for their lives because of what offenders have done to them\u2014the criminal acts that they\u2019ve done\u2014and he laughs and says, \u201COh, that\u2019s just a joke.\u201D Well, I don\u2019t take this as a joke, Mr Darroch Ball. I take this incredibly seriously, and on this side of the House I am not afraid to stand up for those who are victims of crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe question I was asking: where\u2019s the support from the Government to help people who have been victims of crime to get on to the secret roll, and who want some support in that? They have to go to organisations who volunteer their time to assist them, voluntary organisations who support the victims of crime. But this bill affords more rights to those who have been sentenced to serious offences, and I remind the member: 1,929 serious violent offenders sentenced to three years or less in the 2018-19 year for crimes such as manslaughter, sexual assault, abduction, and acts intended to cause injury, and I will not stand and vote for a bill which affords those people more rights than victims of crime. The New Zealand First Party should hang their heads in shame\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc782f24067f4771a2a7125cd5adba97\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Sit down!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4b802b4c094c4883cb93719d43ebe0\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And I will not sit down. I will continue to stand up for victims of crime. That member should hang his head in shame for what he voted for last Thursday during urgency, and what he is now voting for again today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u00225867091849ac4f4382766dad406b08a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225867091849ac4f4382766dad406b08a3\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Simeon Brown said something very strange, and I\u2019m still trying to compute it; I\u2019m trying to figure it out. He said that this was a matter of principle\u2014he said this was a matter of principle. Now, what confuses me, and I\u2019m sure it confuses everybody on this side of the House, is whether or not Mr Brown understands the time line of how we actually got to this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ELet me start way back in 1993, when guess who was in Government? It was the National Party. The National Party was in Government and they voted in a law\u2014let me say this again\u2014the National Party voted in a law, and let me say, not only the National Party, but a member that\u2019s sitting over there was a part of that National Government, who is standing up today, and last week, speaking vociferously against the very legislation he voted for in 1993. The very same legislation, about giving prisoners the vote, for those who had been in for under three years\u2014it\u2019s the very same. Mr Nick Smith stands up in this House today, and last week, saying that it was a matter of principle that they\u2019re voting against it. When did you find those principles, Mr Smith? When did Simeon Brown figure out when National Party found those principles? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ELet me keep going down the time line, 2010. Again, the National Party\u2014sorry, 2008\u2014the National Party got into Government. The National Party got into Government in 2008; 2008, 2009, and it wasn\u2019t until 2010 that the National Party decided to change the law. Three years. Three years into their first term, in 2008, they decided to figure out what their principles were, apparently, and changed the law then. It wasn\u2019t because a member of Cabinet, like Nick Smith was, brought it up to the Prime Minister or to Cabinet\u2014because it was a matter of principle, wasn\u2019t it, Mr Smith? This is a matter of principle, right? So why did that member wait three years into the first term to vote for a piece of legislation to change the prisoner voting laws? Why? Answer that question. Riddle me that, Mr Smith. Silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9bcee59e2974a248af1caf35f0ea217\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Because it was a member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ef661277124a7d9d6af547ebfe4078\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: It was a member\u2019s bill. Well done! It was a member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8cd55bfa1b944129eca7597d04b94ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to yield?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a3c4e5d1354255bbfe604e96ddf0fa\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: It was a member\u2019s bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ddbde423354135924cae18578b08e7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to yield?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba76c3e9355e4e629824d4408cacbf52\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: It was a member\u2019s bill. It was a member\u2019s bill that was plucked out. It was a member\u2019s bill that was plucked out of the tin by pure luck. The National Party Cabinet that that member was a part of did not want to hear about it. I\u2019m sure Paul Quinn wanted to come and talk to Mr Smith about it\u2014a member of Cabinet\u2014and say, \u201CThis is a matter of principle, Mr Smith. We need to have this as a Government bill.\u201D Oh no, it wasn\u2019t a matter of principle back then, but it is now, apparently. Isn\u2019t that right, Mr Smith? So it was a matter of luck, a matter of luck that it was plucked out by the member Paul Quinn; by the member Paul Quinn. A matter of luck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENow, let me just say something, also, which is quite surprising to me: that Nick Smith stands up today and speaks of his outrage, and last week again of his outrage, about the constitutional changes being made by such a slim majority\u2014such a slim majority. What was the majority back in 2010, when the National Party changed it, Mr Smith? What was the slim majority back in 2010, when the National Party changed the prisoner voting laws? What was it? Today, we\u2019ve got a majority of six, I believe. Is that correct? Six. Guess how many you had, Mr Smith? Five. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ENow, the reason why they had five\u2014I hope everybody\u2019s watching\u2014is because two parties, two parties in the Government back in 2010, actually voted against it. They voted against it, Mr Smith\u2014the M\u0101ori Party, back in 2010, and United Future voted against that member\u2019s bill, and the one that was a matter of principle for the Government. You know, call me old-fashioned, but when we\u2019ve got members like Mr Smith and Mr Brown standing up, waxing lyrical about it being a matter of principle, I just don\u2019t believe them, because the evidence is to the contrary, Mr Smith and Mr Brown; it is to the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EI just want to say one last thing before I finish up, that I never thought I\u2019d see the day that the National Party, and especially Nick Smith, would stand up and support a Supplementary Order Paper by the Green Party\u2014by the Green Party\u2014on a law and order issue, on a law and order issue. Let it be minuted\u2014let it be noted in the annals of history\u2014that Nick Smith and the National Party voted for, and agreed with, a law and order policy from the Green Party. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022e631efce3555407a9d4df48be4e24518\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e631efce3555407a9d4df48be4e24518\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s inappropriate to bring the Governor-General into the debate of this House; so I\u2019ll just reflect in general terms on the strange feeling that must have been about to descend on Government House when Her Excellency is asked to sign into law a very similar piece of legislation to that which she would have been asked not that long ago\u2014yesterday, in fact, I understand. It\u2019s often been quoted\u2014the original phrase, we understand, of Harold Wilson\u2014that a week is a long time in politics; it\u2019s also quite a long time in the context of electoral law legislation. Actually, for the political geeks out there, apparently Harold Wilson originally made a similar comment back in 1960, some four years before that now-famous saying about the week being a long time of politics, that 48 hours is a long time in politics, which is, funnily enough, about the same period of time that the Government now intends to pass this entire new piece of legislation, amending the other one and, no doubt, have that passed into law and be assented again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got this situation having arisen because a number of lessons, it seems, needed to be learnt. One is the lesson of managing a legislative programme. Now, I haven\u2019t been in the position of being in Government in my time here, either in the general sense of being a member of the party that is in Government or, obviously, being part of the executive\u2014I\u2019m sure it\u2019s only a matter of time on both fronts, he said modestly, albeit facetiously, in the case of my own career.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222e4117b69e94bb49410780cc23f0c29\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: And optimistically. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d092f394ba9441908e8b50a4ba502902\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I hear the candidate for \u014Ch\u0101riu adding in his two cents\u2019 worth. There have been three years in this. It\u2019s many times been said that three years is not long enough for a parliamentary term\u2014I think there are reasonable arguments to be made on both sides of that debate\u2014but the reason that we\u2019re here today, relitigating, so to speak, the legislation that was passed last week, is because it was relatively late within the three-year term that the legislation was even brought to the table, so to speak. One could speculate that that was the result of negotiations that needed to take place between Government parties. I wouldn\u2019t know. I wasn\u2019t there, but, suffice to say, this is not a new issue; so it does seem strange that we\u2019ve ended up with this somewhat indecent haste, as it\u2019s turned out to be, that the legislation was passed the other day, and it\u2019s now being re-passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAs I say, one might speculate on the cause of that, but it\u2019s probably helpful if I move on to other matters\u2014for example, the fact that the issue that was at the heart of the confusion of last week\u2014let\u2019s just call it confusion and move on\u2014was an issue that had been raised and canvassed extensively at the Justice Committee. The principled position that some submitters brought to the table\u2014and in very convincing terms, I\u2019d have to say. If one were of the persuasion to say that some prisoners should be able to vote, the argument went that so all prisoners should be able to vote. That was obviously the position taken by the Green Party, but not by other members of the Government, as in the parties that are, effectively, forming Government as opposed to being the Government support party\u2014I use the term \u201Csupport\u201D in a reasonably loose kind of way on this occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnd so it was that the Greens put forward an amendment that the other members were not prepared to accept and support, and so we had this bizarre position whereby it was open to the National Party to highlight the principled opposition of many people on the other side of politics, let\u2019s just say, who in many cases would have said that it would be right to highlight the inconsistency, the anomaly of the fact that a law was passing through this House that says that some prisoners are able to vote; others are not, and yet the law change has been characterised by its proponents as being a matter of human rights. Well, if it\u2019s a matter of human rights and if all prisoners are human, regardless of whether they\u2019re serving less than three years or three years or more, surely all prisoners should be allowed to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, just to be clear, on this side of the House, we are not arguing that all prisoners should be allowed to vote, but I\u2019m pointing out that the logical inconsistency of the Government\u2019s position, other than the Greens\u2019 position, that was on display last week, and as highlighted by the Greens\u2019 Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) and in turn highlighted by our support of the Greens\u2019 SOP in respect of Part 2, has reached its logical conclusion, which is to say that we are coming back to re-debate the issue now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, the Opposition in a parliamentary democracy has few tools at its disposal. I believe that\u2019s fair enough. That\u2019s the nature of democracy. We have elections and there is a winner and a loser, roughly speaking. My side of the House did not win the last election in the sense that the Government was able to be formed by a majority of MPs who were on the other side of the argument, roughly speaking. But, while we don\u2019t have many tools at our disposal, one that we do have is to make deals with other Opposition parties or members\u2014whether or not they are aware of the deals that are being struck in this case\u2014and so it is that we are able to highlight issues that are important to us and to our voters by any means within the rules that we are able. And let us be clear, the rules of this House were strictly observed by us last week in the sense that we voted \u201CYea\u201D and then we voted \u201CNay\u201D\u2014well, actually, the other way round; so it was \u201CNay\u201D and then \u201CYea\u201D\u2014in respect of motions that were completely, entirely correctly, from a procedural point of view, put before the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, as an Opposition, we don\u2019t have much opportunity to execute our ideas in the sense that we don\u2019t control the wider machinery of Government. We don\u2019t have much platform to set the agenda in the way that a Government has the moral authority. We don\u2019t have access to official advice, at least to the same extent, although I will note that those of us on the Justice Committee, of course, did discuss the issues entailed in this legislation at some length, and we don\u2019t have the majority in this House usually. On the rare occasions that we do have the majority in this House because one of the Government parties has thought it would be helpful to show up at its partners, we would be foolish not to use it to the extent that that can be helpful in raising, for the benefit of the nation, a discussion that has to be had about the inconsistency of what has been brought before us\u2014namely, as I said before, the fact that some prisoners are to be given what has been characterised as a human right and others are not. So it is not a matter of opposition that is mindless, as some have characterised, but rather a rare opportunity for the Opposition not to be voiceless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ELet me finish in this, the first reading speech\u2014and I sense I\u2019ll have other opportunities as the afternoon and evening wears on\u2014with a little analysis that I have taken the liberty of bringing to the House in relation to what it means to negotiate. Now, Supplementary Order Papers are not normally a good tool for negotiation, but the reason that the Opposition, from time to time, will have the opportunity to negotiate with the Government through SOPs is that there are very few other options, but it is a rare opportunity for the Opposition to say, in the way of a negotiation, that party A has something that party B wants. Party B has, within its power, the power to give to party A that thing. Conversely, party B has something that party A wants. In this context\u2014and the analysis goes that the National Party had the ability to vote for the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper in both Part 1 and Part 2\u2014the Green Party had something that the National Party wanted, which was the ability to bring to the Table an amendment to the legislation that could help to prove a point about the inconsistency of the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnd so it was those things that were exchanged: 1) the SOP, on one hand, by the Green Party, and 2) on the other hand, by the National Party, votes to support it. That isn\u2019t the basic nature of a negotiation. A negotiation is an exchange of things that are mutually beneficial, and so it was entirely logical and entirely consistent with the National Party\u2019s position, as stated consistently throughout this House on the first reading of the No. 1 bill\u2014if I can call it that\u2014that we would take an opportunity that was afforded to us, albeit accidentally no doubt by the Government, to highlight the issues that had been raised throughout the select committee process by those supporters of the bill who said that it didn\u2019t go far enough and by opponents of the bill who said it simply didn\u2019t make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I look forward to speaking further about the inconsistency therein and, in particular, how that relates to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and the finding of the Waitangi Tribunal. And so at this, the first reading, without wishing to delay further, we remain opposed to the bill on this side of House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u002213e72628c4b04a5196f613c1d6ba1633\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213e72628c4b04a5196f613c1d6ba1633\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a short call on this bill, given its lack of substance and its administrative purpose, this afternoon. The Green Party position is very well-known and it has been traversed by members from across the House this afternoon, even in this very debate. We see the right to vote as a fundamental human right, in agreeance with the New Zealand High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal. We see it as an obligation of Government to ensure that all basic human rights are provided to us across this land, not based on our race, religion, gender identity, marital status, or any other moral judgment of the Government of the day. That has always been our position. That is in my strengthening democracy member\u2019s bill, which stands for universal restoration of the voting rights for all people in our prisons, among other things, and we were really happy and proud to see that a part of that member\u2019s bill was adopted by the Minister of Justice and the House last week. So that\u2019s all been very well traversed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EThere was a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), and it\u2019s very, very usual in an MMP Government that minor parties and members who are outside of Government\u2014as I am\u2014may put up an SOP to further their party\u2019s position on a Government bill and have it be voted upon. Those SOPs are, of course, drafted by the parliamentary drafters and, in this case, it was in two parts and the National Party did vote on one part of that bill. Unfortunately, they didn\u2019t vote on the substantive part; they voted on an administrative part, which would have had the effect of requiring prison staff to inform prisoners that they have the right to vote\u2014who don\u2019t\u2014and retaining prisoners on the roll who don\u2019t have the right to vote, because the substantive part was not voted upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo that is an issue that we needed to tidy up, because the rest of the bill has the effect of creating a vast amount of admin work for the Electoral Commission without, in fact, restoring anybody\u2019s right to vote. I had a conversation with the renowned constitutional lawyer and academic Andrew Geddis last week about this, in which he called the effect of this bill the creation of zombie voters, and so we don\u2019t want that. We do want to tidy it up, but not because we are giving up on the fight to restore universal voting rights to all New Zealanders; so we will continue to push on. But we do support this bill because we do believe in having law that\u2019s consistent and effective. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u002203b0e5eb384441079ff91119d40654f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203b0e5eb384441079ff91119d40654f1\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E National believes that voting is a right. It\u2019s a fundamental right but a right that is not absolute. The law gives more weight to the moral obligation of persons not to commit a crime, rather than the moral obligation of persons to vote. If we consider all the things that we think of as rights, we do agree that there is never an absolute right when even fundamental ones come with responsibilities. There is a social contract between individuals and the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe disqualification of prisoners from voting makes it clear that our democratic rights as citizens include the obligation to obey the law. Prisoners, however, would have opted out of that social contract, and often in quite substantial ways. When people break the law and are sentenced to prison, they have not met their side of that social contract, that obligation to society, and therefore should lose the right to vote when they are in prison. By giving rights to voters, it is giving back that right to criminals, that voice to criminals, when it is these very criminals who have taken that voice away from their victims. If someone is sent to prison because he has committed a serious crime, that comes with consequences, and as my colleague Simeon Brown has mentioned, National believes that if you do the crime, you must do the time. Going to prison is a punishment and should be treated as such.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, it\u2019s not easy to be given a prison sentence. You need to have committed serious things to be sentenced to imprisonment, and people who have received sentences of up to three and more years are not small-time criminals. Again, people have committed serious offences\u2014that would mean assaults, violent robberies, family violence offences, and sexual offences. There is a wide spectrum of offences that equates to imprisonment and taking away of a person\u2019s rights. This is why National is opposed to the current bill, bill No. 2: Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). This is why National was opposed to bill No. 1, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ELast week, the Government passed the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act under urgency. The Act intended to reinstate the right to vote to criminals who were sentenced to less than three years\u2019 imprisonment, including, possibly, to vote in the coming elections. We are now in urgency again, this time on new legislation, legislation that aims to amend the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act, that was passed just last week. The question that many will ask, the public may ask, is \u201CWhy?\u201D Why are we doing this again? Simply because bill No. 1, which we will call bill No. 1, was passed with a problem in its provisions. Despite this, the bill went on to third reading and was voted on to pass under urgency. The problem with the passage of the bill is that corrections officers are now required to tell prisoners that they are entitled to vote but even as not all of the prisoners that they will have to tell they\u2019re entitled to vote are actually entitled to that vote. It is an inconsistency that needs to be amended. All prisoners will be enrolled under the Act regardless of the sentence that they are going through, and it is unclear whether or not being allowed to enrol will carry with it that ability or right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENow, after all that\u2019s been said and done, this inconsistency, the problem with the first bill having passed on third reading in urgency\u2014the problem arose from the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper carrying two amendments, one that extended the right of voting, returning the right of the vote to all prisoners, and the second taking away the Electoral Commission\u2019s power to remove disqualified voters from enrolling, essentially resulting in an unworkable law. From the very beginning, the National Party has opposed returning or reinstating that right to vote to prisoners, and what has happened through the process of urgency is that in enforcing, in implementing, that belief in not allowing for prisoners to be reinstated to their voting rights, National has voted on the Supplementary Order Paper of the Greens that did contain that provision of requiring that electoral officers be required to inform the prisoners of their right to vote. Even if it results in an inconsistency in the Act, regardless, that was in keeping with National\u2019s position to be against and opposed to reinstating that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI think that I would like to finish by saying that, again, we need to be reminded that we have gone through and are going through an extraordinary difficulty in New Zealand, as the world is also undergoing extraordinary difficulty at this time. After the COVID lockdown in New Zealand, and as COVID-19 continues to go through the world, destroying economies because of the lockdowns that countries have needed to get into, because of this extraordinary situation and the time of Parliament coming slowly to an end over the coming recess and the next final three weeks of sessions, one would think that opportunities for urgency and moving bills faster through the process would include bills that address assistance to businesses and possibly anything that would push New Zealand towards economic recovery a little bit faster than it could possibly be. Such a bill that is pushed through urgency allowing for the reinstatement of the right to vote is simply not able to be supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220200cc8028324864bcc656c4f04c0ef0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220200cc8028324864bcc656c4f04c0ef0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014I call Ginny Andersen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d65b9c767d3641e7a03b7b0f6389324d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d65b9c767d3641e7a03b7b0f6389324d\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, kia ora, thank you. Now, it\u2019s interesting that we have had a refresh in the National Party with a pledge not to be opposition for opposition\u2019s sake, when that is exactly what has happened with the passage of this piece of legislation. So what this bill now does, this No. 2 bill, is it fixes the mess and the petty politics that the National Party members played last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat the National Party did is they voted on three parts of the bill; let\u2019s spell that out for those people watching at home. So number one, they voted not to extend voting rights to prisoners. Then, secondly, they voted for prison managers being required to inform all prisoners that they are qualified to be registered as an elector of a district court\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e2e03a607445be8468beadcc2df4b8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! A couple of things. Mr King, don\u2019t bring me into the debate. And both of you, and Mr Greg O\u2019Connor, stop the cross-Chamber conversation. If you want to have a conversation, go outside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270947d2e905f4ffa8ad38f24bdf5112c\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. And thirdly, they voted to abolish the power of the Electoral Commission to remove from the electoral roll the names of people who were disqualified from voting. What an utter mess. They had no consistency whatsoever. So if in the beginning you were opposed to the fact that prisoners should be able to vote if they\u2019re in prison for three years or longer, come out and say that and stick to it. But the mess that we saw last week is an absolute shambles and it makes a mockery of the democracy that New Zealand has now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what we need to be doing here is rectifying what was initially the law, let\u2019s remind everyone, and it was a private member\u2019s bill under the National Party that changed and removed that right. Subsequent to that, we\u2019ve had the High Court of New Zealand and the Supreme Court of New Zealand ruling in favour that prisoners have the right to vote. Personally, I believe that is a good idea for people being able to be reintegrated, to have a new chance, and unnecessarily punitive measures that the National Party are advocating have not only been ruled against by the highest courts in New Zealand but the strong majority of people believe that if we are serious about turning around our prison population, we have to have more legislation like this. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002215d88940b3914fc6960efafff87dee4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215d88940b3914fc6960efafff87dee4f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon David Bennett, five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00220accd655867e4c3e8c5400c252b997e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220accd655867e4c3e8c5400c252b997e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E That member just has made a lot of assumptions about what people want and believe. The reality is, if somebody commits a crime where they\u2019re put in imprisonment, they lose some rights, and one of those rights is the ability to vote. It\u2019s actually pretty hard to get to prison in New Zealand. Basically, you\u2019ve got to be a large-scale offender or do a major crime, especially under this Government, where they let everybody out of jail and make sure that people don\u2019t get into jail. They\u2019ve had a whole programme over the last three years of indicating to courts and to parole officials and other people in the criminal justice system that nobody should be in jail, because, in their belief, jails should not exist. The Minister even said that. He said that nobody should be in jail, with the Prime Minister, two years ago. They\u2019ve followed that through. They do not actually believe\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022967effb484a04cfd9af6dfab52377216\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s a clown. What a clown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dacef54a517c42e58250368c5177dcb7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That is true\u2014that is true. The Minister\u2019s disagreeing now with his colleague. He should listen to his colleague the Minister of Corrections, who does not want anybody in jail. So that\u2019s the fundamental position Labour starts from: they do not believe that jail is an appropriate sanction for people that commit offences, and they will do anything to get people out of jail. They will go and make sure that people have to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294488841b37449bd914068fecc6281b4\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll put you in jail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea5a0ca0939f4125bafe70bdbb94e4af\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Is there something wrong, Willie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221223f2513dab4373b1cc017a8ed83255\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: No. I\u2019m just saying we\u2019ll put you in jail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afac6d029ef847d58376852d25449a55\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah. Put me in jail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a9e8f7334d482082011b416b2e6673\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: No. Order! Don\u2019t bring me into it. I\u2019m not going to jail any time soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faa59ff201934cf6a420c4ed1bbcc4f8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Trevor probably should go to jail\u2014ha, ha! I can\u2019t say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cea0bee346e411da93ccc4e8b615127\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Don\u2019t bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225668a7386bdb4d2abb5a6a802240bde8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s interesting that Willie Jackson wants to put people in jail\u2014just me. But I\u2019d still get to vote under the Labour scheme, wouldn\u2019t I, Willie?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246a89bb9f2b948c1aeb3f64c21b6ebdf\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014we\u2019ll stop it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a61f9542eb314a58bdf4e1bd0712677e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, stop it\u2014you\u2019ll stop it. See, that\u2019s the thing. They have all these rules and they can\u2019t even control their own political agenda. They\u2019re in coalition with the Green Party; they can\u2019t work out what\u2019s here or there. They go to this political system, and they were warned in the third reading that they should stop, reflect, and retry the committee stage. But, no, that arrogance that is the Labour Party that you see in them day by day, every time they go out and every time where they talk in this House. This was evident again last week. That arrogance led to us here today actually having to do this bill again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EWhen the New Zealand economy needs real change, when people are losing jobs, when we\u2019ve got an economy that\u2019s teetering on the edge of recession, this is a time where Parliament should be working for all New Zealanders. It shouldn\u2019t be working in the interests of the Labour Party and their failures and the Green Party as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t see the New Zealand First Party doing much at this time either. Now, they\u2019re a party that prides themselves on being a law and order party. Maybe that\u2019s why those New Zealand First members that wish to retain a seat in Parliament\u2014which is, basically, all of them, because this is the best thing they\u2019re ever going to see in life\u2014should probably start talking to David Seymour about options that they could actually parachute on to his list, because that\u2019s their best chance, at the moment, of getting back into this Parliament. The reason they\u2019re not going to get back in is because they have not delivered for their voters, who do not want to see this kind of legislation. They do not want to see prisoners given the right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266775e21e6b145379761382797b54a17\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Urgh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b397b266f3684d76ac3b569fcc785189\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: That New Zealand First member over there that is lucky to be in the House after his escapades this afternoon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220251ee47f24648bab878780da7efd779\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Don\u2019t even go there. Seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af8a4fb21654502a71e8da467be03be\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So this bill is one that we should not be debating today. If the Labour Party weren\u2019t so arrogant last week, they would have reflected on their failure and said, \u201CLook, we got it wrong. Let\u2019s try and sort it out then and there. Let\u2019s bring that committee stage back and let\u2019s do it.\u201D But, no, we have to go through a full process; we have to waste the time of this House when we should be doing genuine things for the sake of this country. The people of this country don\u2019t believe that people that have gone to prison should have the entitlement to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c3c88fd894542e5bfab3253b25861f8\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How do you know that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214dbb47869454d429dbc5c4be686ca76\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I can tell you, Willie. I win my seat, and the reason I win my seat is because I reflect what the people of my electorate want. My people do not want prisoners to have a vote. They don\u2019t want that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002257ea6ae94c894efebda239ccfcb98595\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257ea6ae94c894efebda239ccfcb98595\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c07722dc6324453f9674414dee7cdaeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c07722dc6324453f9674414dee7cdaeb\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s not often I agree with that member, the Hon David Bennett, who probably makes some of the most trite speeches in this House, but he did mention on this occasion how we should be here talking about the economy. We should be working on many of the things that need fixing. I came to Parliament to do just that, as did most of us. And what do we end up doing? We end up with games. As a result of the Hon Nick Smith playing games last week, we are back here doing this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThis bill, the main part of it, was passed last week. Yes, it restores voting rights to those who have less than three years in prison. It prepares them. It\u2019s the only chance that those people who are most alienated will ever\u2014the only thing they\u2019ll ever do that puts them as part of mainstream society. That did pass, but there was some very childish behaviour led by the Hon Nick Smith now being perpetuated by those members opposite. Hang your heads in shame. This is waste. It will be fixed today, as it should be, but please, please don\u2019t treat this place like a playground, like you did recently and force us all into this position, because it is shame on those of you who are endorsing what you did. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d66773e6519b4e6dac72ee8b84c313f2\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00227e0cccac53f848c5a79e561281d27ddc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e0cccac53f848c5a79e561281d27ddc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, my mistake. I should have called that as a split call. I didn\u2019t and so I\u2019ve got it reversed around the wrong way, but I\u2019ll now go to a five-minute call from David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b34daeccd1de460e9ab5fc1380ae2883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b34daeccd1de460e9ab5fc1380ae2883\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014thank you, Mr Speaker. Just in time. I was sitting in my parliamentary office and I saw that we were up to speech nine on this bill\u2014the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014and I have to confess, I had impure thoughts. I thought that perhaps the people of the Parliamentary Service had actually been so negligent that they had actually put up a bill that we debated last week on the ticker tape at the bottom of the TV. I thought, \u201CSurely the good people of the Parliamentary Service would not make such an elementary mistake as to put up last week\u2019s bill as being debated this week?\u201D I thought, \u201CWhat could possibly have gone wrong? Surely it\u2019s not possible that Parliament is debating the same bill this week that it debated last week? It can\u2019t have been. Surely no one would make a mistake that silly in this Parliament?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo I ran down to the House to find out what was going on. I asked my good friend Andrew Falloon from Rangitata, a good local MP he is, \u201CAndrew Falloon, what is happening. Why are we debating the same bill that we had last week for registration of prisoners to vote? This can\u2019t be right.\u201D Then I said, \u201CAndrew Falloon, is this like that time just a few weeks ago when we accidentally passed the wrong bill in Parliament? Because this Government, it makes make some terrible mistakes, some very simple mistakes, and sometimes they actually put the wrong piece of paper on the Table and accidentally pass the wrong legislation, and I think that might have happened here.\u201D Well, actually, that\u2019s what happened. For the people sitting at home watching\u2014and I recognise that I\u2019m kind of contributing to the problem here, but it needs to be said\u2014their taxes are being wasted, running this Parliament to have a bill passed that was passed last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhy are we passing it again this week? Because when they passed it last week, they made such a tactical error in the way the Government tries to pass its legislation that they accidentally made a piece of legislation that said that if a prisoner has been in prison for more than three years, or sentenced to more than three years, they have to be registered to vote. The prison warden has to register them to vote, but they can\u2019t actually pass a vote\u2014they can\u2019t actually vote. So they\u2019re registered, and the warden has to register them, but they can\u2019t actually vote. That doesn\u2019t make a lot of sense. Surely the clever people in Parliament who earn upwards of $162,000 a year, less the pay cut that it took them three months to organise, surely those good people that represent us in Wellington, especially the ones in the Government, wouldn\u2019t make such a silly mistake as to accidentally pass the wrong part of a law? You see, last time they passed a whole wrong law, and this time they just passed part of a wrong law, which\u2014maybe that\u2019s progress for this Labour Government. Who knows? Maybe they\u2019re just making smaller and smaller mistakes towards the election until they reach perfection, and off in the infinite time horizon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut the difficulty is, and the courts would have had to work this out, it may have made prison wardens criminals. The problem with that is that prison wardens are there in order to ensure that criminals are kept locked up. But then, if the Government makes the prison warden a criminal, what\u2019s going on in our jails? They\u2019d have to lock themselves up. Then the next person who was hired to be a prison warden, every time there was an election, they would break the law and they\u2019d become a criminal, too. So you\u2019d have to get a new prison warden and eventually everybody would be locked in jail because of the logic of this stupid law. So we\u2019re here having a full legislative process to fix this ridiculously amateur-hour mistake made by the Government, and I just wanted to stand up and make the New Zealand people aware that that\u2019s the kind of competence they are dealing with from this Labour Government. I oppose this silly fix up. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u002237d1115c6eab4bdebef4f7ed59d01700\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237d1115c6eab4bdebef4f7ed59d01700\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Now, recently, we discussed Speakers\u2019 ruling 48/3 in relation to the nature of the split calls, where it\u2019s an \u201Cunusual arrangement\u201D that the second person gets the remainder of the time, and I\u2019d just note that at that time we agreed that\u2014or your ruling was that that wasn\u2019t the case in a structured split call agreed between National and Labour. But given the more relaxed or informal nature of this split call, would it be appropriate under that ruling for Mr Seymour to have an additional three minutes that Mr Greg O\u2019Connor did not use? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5bdd6ab8f024f9e8a8d3034d5cbbaab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5bdd6ab8f024f9e8a8d3034d5cbbaab\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a point of order, and I suspect that when you raised it, you may have been aware that that\u2019s not a point of order. No, it is not appropriate. You could seek leave for Mr Seymour to have additional time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd8eb1a315ac43d683f876e96470e17c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd8eb1a315ac43d683f876e96470e17c\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, yes, I seek leave for Mr Seymour to be given the additional three minutes that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00225913ede7c3154fdab0a514ac2c5b9e99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225913ede7c3154fdab0a514ac2c5b9e99\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee24e029b8cb4d19a08f2c4562ac7426\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee24e029b8cb4d19a08f2c4562ac7426\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I was looking forward to another three minutes from Mr David Seymour, particularly because he does acknowledge the very good work of the member of Parliament for the Rangitata electorate. So thank you to the good member for Epsom as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI rise to speak tonight on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2), and it feels a little bit like Groundhog Day because, of course, we were here in exactly this position last week, passing legislation\u2014again under urgency\u2014to give some additional prisoners the right to vote. The reason we\u2019re here again tonight is because of a mistake, a muck-up, a stuff-up, on the Government\u2019s part between the three governing parties, and we actually warned them at the time. It shows the perils of passing legislation under urgency\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eed749504c64bed8d914ba128a5f70a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: You didn\u2019t, Andrew, come on. Don\u2019t be disingenuous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba45e4bdc9644607900e243fead02ea3\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: There were plenty of warnings, Ms Swarbrick. In fact, Nick Smith pointed out on several occasions, tried to be helpful, tried to\u2014indeed, he sought leave to send it back to select committee to fix that mistake, Ms Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, and of course it was opposed by the Government parties. But this bill shows the perils of passing legislation under urgency, and of course urgency has its place; we all accept that. There was COVID legislation passed some months ago in response to COVID-19, and of course that\u2019s appropriate\u2014we do use urgency from time to time. But it does come with risk, and this bill highlights some of those risks. Because you had Andrew Little putting forward the bill, which then went to the committee of the whole House and various amendments were voted on, some by Golriz Ghahraman, and one of those amendments was passed by the committee; it was passed by Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EAnd yet now we\u2019re here in this House seeking to change that amendment, to reverse those amendments. And we\u2019re not alone in doing so, because\u2014I should say, Andrew Little, rather, railed against the use of urgency on occasion; in fact, particularly in relation to electoral law. He said that electoral law should not be subject to urgency; we should not be using urgency to pass electoral law changes. And, of course, the Greens joined him in that. The Greens\u2014I\u2019m old enough to remember\u2014in Opposition used to rail against the use of urgency on many, many occasions, and yet here we are, the three Government parties, led by Andrew Little, the Minister of Justice for this Parliament, who says that electoral law should be passed under urgency and the Greens are joining him in doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe warned them throughout. I said that earlier, Ms Swarbrick. She\u2019s quite wrong. They were warned throughout, they were warned during the committee of the whole House stage, they were warned during the third reading, and yet, unfortunately, the Minister pressed on. The Minister pressed on with that process despite those glaring inconsistencies being pointed out to them, and, as my colleague Tim van de Molen said, Nick Smith offered to fix it. He moved a motion in this Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c236a44b6d4907a6af6089ecac4da6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, Mr Falloon; I\u2019m sorry to interrupt you, but you\u2019ve had three minutes. Would you mind speaking to the bill? Thank you. Starting now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241aa43af33f14b71a3bec386b359d839\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Madam Speaker, absolutely. And so the reason we have this bill, the reason we\u2019re voting on this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae9af5848e64a1a9ea058657d2d9aaf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: No, not the reason why we\u2019re here, but what\u2019s in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a74b29009d9645bdb26bd281bb4ff732\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s in this bill is reversing a change that was passed in this Parliament last week, which could have been fixed, actually, if the original bill, the No. 1 bill as we\u2019ve referred to it tonight, had been referred back to select committee, as Nick Smith offered to do, yet the Minister pressed on despite that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ENow, what this bill does is it fixes the inconsistencies that were raised in Parliament last week, and the amendment that was put forward by Golriz Ghahraman\u2014there were two parts to it. The first part was to, essentially, give all prisoners the right to vote\u2014that wasn\u2019t passed by the House\u2014but then the second part, that was passed by this Parliament, which we\u2019re now reversing with this bill, sought to require prison managers to advise and assist, essentially, prisoners to enrol to vote, and this bill gets rid of that. This bill changes that. And yet the Greens, who moved that motion originally, are now voting against the very amendment that they moved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EAcross the House, throughout this debate, we\u2019ve had Andrew Little and other Labour MPs standing up, and what has been their response to that? Their response has been to blame National\u2014to blame National for that change that was made in this House last week. Well, I\u2019ll just remind members opposite that, actually, National doesn\u2019t have a majority in this Parliament. So how on earth could it be that this devious National Party, this National Opposition, could pass legislation in this Parliament against the wishes of the Government? It\u2019s because it absolutely can\u2019t happen. We don\u2019t have majority in this Parliament. It was the Greens who put forward the amendment, it was the Greens who voted for the amendments, it was the Greens who voted for this change to be made that we are now voting against. It goes to show what a shambles we have in this Government, when you\u2019ve got three parties all expressing a very different view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI just want to run through some of those comments that have been raised in the debate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a73e10ba57f244dc940af960e49d35f0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you referring to the bill now, Mr Falloon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d16afe9d7dd34c9a8673a40bfe4ca341\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m referring to the points that have been raised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e696210deb4bdab93c8fbd19199a77\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you referring to the bill now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac96a4e1e86a413fa0945c772c23d7c5\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Madam Speaker, and in doing so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e76abd00a82416baa3a69baf0d7de53\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll be listening carefully. That\u2019s the second opportunity I\u2019ve given you to refer to the bill; so I\u2019ll be listening really carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c64c67bfd93f4a74ad29b7c50c3c2567\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: Right, OK, thank you, Madam Speaker. So what this bill does, as I\u2019ve said, is it changes the amendment that was made in the No. 1 bill last week. It changes the amendment that was made which would have required prison managers to advise and assist prisoners\u2014all prisoners\u2014of the right to vote. And that actually comes from quite a consistent position from the Green Party, that they\u2019ve put forward, which I have some sympathy for. It says that, rather than just some prisoners having the right to vote, all prisoners should have the right to vote. I, as I say, have some sympathy for that position. And in his contribution to this debate in this House this afternoon, the Minister, Andrew Little, said that one of the reasons for the change, one of the reasons for this piece of legislation, is that there\u2019s a fundamental principle that prisoners should have the right to vote on the Government when they\u2019re released. And I can understand that position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe problem with this bill is that this bill doesn\u2019t actually do that. This bill doesn\u2019t give prisoners the right to vote on who will be in Government when they\u2019re released. Because, if that was the consistent position that the Government was going to hold, they\u2019d extend it to all people, all prisoners, who are within three years of release\u2014and this bill doesn\u2019t do that. All this bill, and the previous bill, does is give the right to vote to prisoners who have been sentenced to three years or less in prison. It doesn\u2019t do what the Minister has claimed it does, which is giving all the prisoners the right to vote in their last three years in prison. And that was\u2014I\u2019ll again quote him; he said it was a fundamental principle that prisoners should have the right to vote on the Government that will govern them when they are released. That wasn\u2019t his only contribution; he also said that electoral law lies at the heart of our democracy, and again I agree with that point. Of course it does, and yet here we are, under urgency, passing this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI want to raise a separate point to that matter, which is that Andrew Little, earlier in the debate, described that there was, I think, several thousand submissions on the original piece of legislation, and so later on in this debate, when we come to the committee of the whole House stage, I\u2019ll be asking him how many submissions does he think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799933728611479190be74a927bbcdf2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe ask him then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216f3be7cda254ba480baeb95db8032fc\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to; I\u2019m just giving him fair warning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852872839b8e47d8be4f6a1c43e9f4e2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Just speak to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022382449d136e643f1bd0593d5ca9ccfeb\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m giving him fair warning: how many submissions does he think there\u2019ll be on this bill? And of course there will be none. There will be no submissions on this bill, because it\u2019s being rushed through all stages of Parliament under urgency tonight. There\u2019ll be no submissions, there will be no opportunity for people to submit on the bill, and unfortunately that\u2019s only going to cause more mistakes. As we warned on this side of the House throughout this debate and through the debate last week, the perils of passing legislation under urgency is that mistakes can be made. The committee stage and the select committee is where those mistakes can be identified. Unfortunately, in this case, there won\u2019t be a select committee; there won\u2019t be an opportunity for members of the public to come forward, put forward their views, identify mistakes, and hopefully pass a better bill. That won\u2019t be the process here, and so I unfortunately suspect that there could be additional problems with this bill. There\u2019ll be no opportunity to fix those glaring mistakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EBefore I end, I do just want to raise one final point from the Minister\u2019s contribution. And in his contribution he made thinly veiled attacks on a member of this House. He referred to craziness several times. He questioned the sanity of members. I find that disgraceful, because at a time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ab006cf610f4bd59785c655a39112b5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Falloon, if it was so disgraceful, you should have raised it at the time. Could you use your remaining 35 seconds to address the bill, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205bc2e403d104bc9a923557c3416bfa6\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Madam Speaker. I think it is disgraceful, I also think it\u2019s disgraceful that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b48c2b47d04d428b8f60fe16a85ff9b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b48c2b47d04d428b8f60fe16a85ff9b5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Falloon, you will resume your seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6df3c2199b4b38b5f0e10652b3aa5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6df3c2199b4b38b5f0e10652b3aa5d\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (Third Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is quite appropriate for a member to react to interjections from the other side of the House, and we\u2019ve heard continuously through this debate Mr Little with his raucous interjections on a range of topics. For Mr Falloon to engage with that is entirely reasonable and within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022605be4b613194d07b1f42b1626f519ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022605be4b613194d07b1f42b1626f519ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: If that\u2019s what he would have been doing, it would have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022fac8a1ded6444fb5bfed89a997daf9a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fac8a1ded6444fb5bfed89a997daf9a5\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014a delight to be able to take the last call in this debate. Unlike Mr Seymour, I was in my room watching this debate play out last week and was absolutely astonished to see the disarray and shambles on that side of the House. Normally they pretend to be quite organised, but what I saw play out there was total, total disarray. I sort of think it has an explanation to do with how their party runs in general. But according to the last speaker, Andrew Falloon, he wanted to paint a picture of people on the other side being reasonable. Now, I have to think back only to a comment of Dr Smith last week comparing this House to a Nazi establishment; so don\u2019t tell us here that that side of the House is so reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003EI would like to say that we shouldn\u2019t be wasting the time of this Parliament. That party continuously trying to undermine the good work that is being done on this side is an absolute waste of taxpayers\u2019 money, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002230a02b19f076440f864533908271c726\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9466bd2736b47da90bbd16de11d131d\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d174dbf755b341719b1d9dc9c207bd68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d174dbf755b341719b1d9dc9c207bd68\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thankful for the benefit of the debate that we\u2019ve just had as part of the first reading of this bill. This bill does something very important: it reinstates what was in the bill that went before the Justice Committee and was studiously considered and scrutinised by the members of that committee, led by Meka Whaitiri, after receiving more than 2,500 submissions, 78 percent of which were in favour of the law change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat law change, in addition to enabling prisoners sentenced to less than three years to vote on the principle that at the time they vote in one election while they are in prison, they will be out before the next election and they should have a say on who\u2019s running the country that they\u2019re going to be released free into\u2014no member opposite has challenged that principle. Some don\u2019t hear the principle\u2014I think that Simeon Brown doesn\u2019t understand principles; he certainly didn\u2019t understand that one\u2014but even though that principle is very clear, and that principle underpinned the 1993 legislation passed by the then National Government and voted on then by Dr Nick Smith, they still don\u2019t understand that principle. But, anyway, that\u2019s as it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn any event, that\u2019s what the legislation last week did, and Parliament having approved it and the National Party having voted in favour of it, the National Party went on some weird, crazy frolic, like some sort of drunken horse galloping around the paddock, and they then started supporting some really weird things. Having said as a matter of principle that not all crims should be allowed to vote, or, in fact, that no prisoners should be allowed to vote, they then voted for prison officers to be obliged to be required\u2014for it to be compulsory for prison officers\u2014to tell every prisoner, including those disqualified, that they had a right to be on the roll, to collect their information, and to give it to the Electoral Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhy would you do that? What would possess you to do that? Something hit the air on that side of the Chamber last week. I don\u2019t know what it was. I don\u2019t know what it was, but that cannot be explained, and the funny thing is that in all of the contributions on the first reading, no member got up to try and explain or reconcile that pattern of voting, not one of them\u2014not one of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENow, here it is: you come here because you care about your electoral law, you care about this Parliament, you care about what it stands for, and you care about the people of New Zealand, and you come here with a good reputation and wanting to keep it, but that that didn\u2019t seem to be what happened. Members opposite seemed to think that it\u2019s good sport to behave like a sort of primary school debating team: you come in and you pick an argument there and you pick an argument there, and you behave like you really don\u2019t have much up top, because that\u2019s what they did last week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb6283b6617f4f35ac9eaff86e30fcd1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a great way of referring to the Speaker, with respect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224acaea33de844dc19dc634401a6b48dd\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d955cb61120848d98e555f8617653f82\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so you might want to come on to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282b2183204d74d37b20879265a84a6b3\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Speaker. The point is this: when we have a bill that deals with the serious issue of those who are sentenced to prison and where we have a serious debate about where that line falls, about which rights you lose when you go to prison, it is incumbent on this House to take that seriously, approach it solemnly, and act in a principled way, and there are differences of view. Of course there are differences of view, but you expect that if you are a party that adheres to a set of consistent principles\u2014and that principle might be \u201CWe don\u2019t believe any prisoner should have the right to vote.\u201D But if that\u2019s the case, if that\u2019s the principle you adopt, then you would also vote to ensure that the Electoral Commission, for example, have the right to remove disqualified voters from voting. But that didn\u2019t happen, and so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0427a574af49ff92d89e422353b72e\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it did. We opposed the third reading\u2014we voted the bill down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3fdf8524b464b88bb8952df4e8faa1d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this bill now reinstates that. Mr van de Molen, like some of his colleagues, unfortunately, really forgets history. It\u2019s not unusual to forget history a wee way back. It\u2019s not unusual to forget your history about the Sir Keith Holyoakes and the Sir John Marshalls. It\u2019s not unusual to forget the history about the greatness of the National Party under Jim Bolger and Dame Jenny Shipley. It is very unusual to forget the history of just six days ago, but anyway, that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut, in any event, having had a principle that said \u201CWe don\u2019t believe any prisoner should have the right to vote.\u201D, they then voted to remove the power of the Electoral Commission to remove disqualified voters from the roll. This bill reinstates that\u2014this bill reinstates that. So this is about putting some cohesion and common sense back to this, because we don\u2019t come into this House expecting MPs to be erratic and unprincipled and lacking cohesion and inconsistent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s the sad thing\u2014here\u2019s the sad thing. As somebody who grew up in a house where both parents were long-time National Party voters and supporters, and one of whom was a National Party activist\u2014I grew up in that household. I remember the Venn Youngs, the Duncan MacIntyres, and I remember meeting Lance Adams-Schneider\u2014the greats of that generation. I had great respect for them. I had great respect for the National Party\u2014and, in fact, I continue to\u2014but what last week showed was that that party in its current state is not fit to govern, because they think it\u2019s OK to muck around with the rules. They think it\u2019s OK to vote for one principle over here and another principle over there, and no reconciliation between them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo, on that basis, I\u2019m pleased that this bill is making its way through the House. This now puts back into our laws what the select committee looked at, what the select committee sent back to the House, and what was ready to be passed in the House, until the National Party had this sort of little frolic last week and they thought it was good fun. They thought the voters wouldn\u2019t see. They thought they could keep it under cover. They thought that no one would notice that they, again, had wasted the time of Parliament, but, now, Parliament has to come up and respond to their disgraceful conduct last week. On that basis, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022319ac45ae49f4ba3b030f20c354f9168\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022319ac45ae49f4ba3b030f20c354f9168\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s like d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu all over again, as they say. The dividing lines in this bill are really around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3d1f9528691454e95d692eb2233d850\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the question is that the motion be agreed to. I apologise for interrupting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a768390777ba434b9c81033402146d58\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The dividing lines in this bill that are invisible on the page but really, sort of, underline the way we should view this is the difference between principle and politics. This is inherent, for example, in the wording of clause 5, which amends the Electoral Act. Clause 5 concerns the registration of prisoners serving a sentence of imprisonment of less than three years. So it\u2019s that element of having a restriction according to the number of years that is a matter of politics as opposed to one of principle. That\u2019s the genesis of this legislation and, in turn, of course, was the genesis of the equivalent legislation\u2014the \u201CNo. 1 bill\u201D so-called\u2014that we were discussing as recently as last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, fair enough, reading the bill, one might say that, well, politics is the art of the possible, as it was famously said to be. But my message to the Government when I read this No. 2 amendment bill is that they cannot have it both ways. The Government cannot stand on its high horse, and it\u2019s not a drunken horse, such as we\u2019ve just heard referred to in the Minister\u2019s speech\u2014no inebriated equines in my contribution. But the Government cannot get on its high horse and say that it is a matter of human rights and consistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and the Treaty of Waitangi and so forth to give prisoners the right to vote if they define, effectively, prisoners as only those prisoners who have a sentence of less than three years. So that\u2019s the internal contradiction within the bill, and that is the lesson that we have learnt these past several days regarding the Government\u2014that the line between principle and politics is one that they have grappled with hard but have failed to grasp.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe other lesson that we can take from the bill, looking again at the wording of Part 1 in particular, is the perils of passing such legislation, which is technical in its nature as well as being of an electoral nature, under urgency. I refer to the\u2014how would we call that? Well, it\u2019s very familiar\u2014very, very familiar\u2014and the reason this is so familiar, some of this wording, is because we have seen it all before. I don\u2019t mean in some sort of general way of being able to predict the future or based on past. I mean, literally, we\u2019ve seen it all before. All these words had come before us relatively recently, and the reason is because, having attempted to legislate these things into the law of the land on the statute book last week but having failed to do so for reasons that have been reasonably well thrashed out but may yet get a bit more airing today, and so it is that we\u2019ve come back here to have to have another go. It\u2019s more particularly the lack of time between the committee of the whole House stage and the third reading of the previous bill that has led us to look down on our respective desks in front of us today and say that the provisions really are pretty well exactly the same as that which the Government had intended before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA bit like a game of snakes and ladders, the Government has rolled a six and raced forward, but only to go all the way down to the bottom of the board. What I mean by that analogy, powerful as it is\u2014it was the best I could come up with; nothing to do with horses, I\u2019m afraid\u2014is that what we\u2019ve done as a Parliament, and what the Government has done, more particularly, is rushed forward but moved further backwards. So, rather than acknowledging the mistake that was made, the lack of Government management on the benches opposite last week\u2014rather than acknowledge that and move at an appropriate pace to fix up the problem, to put it bluntly, instead, it forged ahead to a third reading to commend to the House a bill that it surely knew was unworkable, indeed, and nonsense. So it is that we\u2019ve gone further back, because we\u2019ve gone all the way to the start of the board, to square one. So here it is that we\u2019ve been debating this bill, and I use the term loosely\u2014but debating the bill in readings one, and two, with the committee of the whole House interlude\u2014for good measure\u2014and the third reading to come later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAgain, looking at the bill and seeing what lessons we can learn at this, the second reading\u2014not having had much of an opportunity to absorb the lessons of the first reading. But looking at that, it\u2019s actually possible to note that given the issues raised in the bill\u2014essentially, the difference between prisoners who are incarcerated for less than three years and those who are incarcerated for three or more years\u2014the lesson from this is that a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to amend the last similar bill was inevitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt was absolutely inevitable that be brought up and, therefore, it was inevitable that this bill would be brought up, provided that one assumes in the first instance that the Greens would be honouring their position that they\u2019ve held throughout that all prisoners should be able to vote\u2014tick\u2014and that the National Party would maintain its consistency of position, which is to oppose anything that would make the passage of this bill into the law of the land, or, effectively, the law of the land\u2014and I use that word deliberately\u2014as at the next general election. So the Greens have acted consistent with their principles and we\u2019ve acted consistent with our position throughout. The clue is in the words of the bill that is now before us, and every time that there is a distinction made\u2014whether in explicit terms by the words or perhaps a cross-reference back to the Electoral Act\u2014every time that the bill points out the difference between how prisoners are to be treated according to the length of time that they are incarcerated, every time we can see that there has been a lack of an internal consistency, logical consistency, not just in the bill but in the Government parties opposite. It\u2019s that inconsistency, that incoherence, and that disjunction between the parties of Government that has expressed itself in the bill that we have seen before us today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe other interesting thing that one notes when one looks at the bill is the gap between the rhetoric and the reality. Again, it\u2019s a pretty obvious gap if one is prepared to read between the lines and one knows a bit of the history of this legislation, with the history of the legislation being not only its passage through the House today\u2014as I anticipate it will go through\u2014but more particularly the background last week and going back further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EGosh, in the House today, we\u2019ve been canvassing back centuries\u2019 worth of tradition, by the sound of it, in various different levels. We\u2019ve had members\u2019 bills brought up. We\u2019ve had National Party history, really, being brought out on both sides of the House, but more particularly on the part of the Minister of Justice. So just how he views that as a continuation of the long-held National Party principle that we should resist measures that are inconsistent and incoherent, that\u2019s not very clear to me at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Government benches\u2014and I oppose it only rhetorically now, as Mr Falloon did, and I know I\u2019m on dangerous territory now. But, as Mr Falloon did, foreshadowing a line of questioning at the committee of the whole House stage, my question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220262db4c25a34e3d82acb081783d2870\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You do know that\u2019s a dangerous line, so just back to the bill please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229421e8e1b38549c39bb162a4d67d8ec9\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you, Madam Speaker. The bill does not achieve, I think, much other than to put right a problem that the Government created for itself last week. The problem was one of an anomaly, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223638b054ad124db3a4ba2898bbd3168e\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Does it achieve for the Greens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287553ddc0e4040f3b7561f992f44015f\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Does it achieve for the Greens? I mean, the interesting question posed by the member for Coromandel is whether the anomaly is fixed\u2014at least that\u2019s what I understand he\u2019s asking. I\u2019m glad that he\u2019s asked it to me, otherwise I might have been tempted to ask it myself. The conclusion that I\u2019d reach is that it fixes an anomaly in one point in sort of a technical drafting sense kind of way, because we\u2019ll have a piece of legislation that cross-refers to the Electoral Act and makes that work and so forth, but it doesn\u2019t solve the anomaly, just looking at it, in relation to the more substantive point, which is that prisoners are supposedly being allowed the right to vote on the basis that they\u2019re being given human rights or civil and political rights. But we\u2019re talking only about some prisoners and not others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea03700f0b648218a77ff3e4ae0e3e6\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: The Greens will be very disappointed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e5d7a945084b4a95b7d758d1c72074\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The Greens will be very disappointed when they read the clear working of this and realise what\u2019s going on. I can only wonder whether they will be unhappy enough with it such that they will put forward another SOP to effectively do the same thing as last week, and then goodness knows how that all may turn out. But that\u2019s something, I suppose, that we have to look forward to us perhaps later tonight. In any case, for now, the position on this side of the House remains unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022 data-id=\u00220fc54923981d4ae98d94fb47981870e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fc54923981d4ae98d94fb47981870e2\u0022\u003ELOUISA WALL (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Te M\u0101ngai o Te Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It\u2019s my absolute pleasure to speak on the second reading of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). The bill is actually really clear. What it enables is prisoners who are sentenced to less than three years to be supported to (a) enrol and (b) vote. And, if you are sentenced for more than three years, you are supported to enrol on release. It seems that there is public support for this bill. There was a Colmar Brunton poll in October 2019 that had 53 percent support for prisoners voting versus 44 percent against.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing\u2014and I just want to delve a little bit on prisoners voting in New Zealand, because the reality of this issue is it goes back to 1852 in the New Zealand Constitution Act, where, in fact, if you were sentenced for\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cany treason, felony, or infamous offence,\u201D you weren\u2019t allowed to vote. It was called the civil death, and it goes back to ancient Greece and Rome. And the infamy, of that time, was: have you attempted to kill the king, have you deserted the army, or have you murdered a relative. So you lost your right of citizenship. That\u2019s the reality of this bill. Voting is a citizenship right. If you go on the website\u2014the Government website\u2014voting is a privilege but it\u2019s a right of citizenship, and a responsibility we all have is to ensure that we\u2019re enrolled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EFor me, this goes back to the 1986 royal commission on electoral reform\u2014obviously, led by the Law Commission. There was a report produced called Towards a Better Democracy. That produced the Electoral Act 1993, and, within that context, prisoners who were serving a life sentence, preventative detention, or were sentenced to three years or longer were actually excluded from voting. That was changed in 2010. I won\u2019t delve into the history, but, obviously, the National Party, the National Government, supported that. That led in 2013 to five prisoners going to the High Court, and, in fact, the decision of the High Court, which faced appeal in the Court of Appeal and also the Supreme Court. Justice Heath, and I quote, said, the most fundamental aspect of a democracy is \u201Cthe right of all citizens to elect those who will govern on their behalf.\u201D And therein lies the principle behind this. Is it justified that some prisoners should vote? The courts have said yes. Is it therefore justified that some prisoners shouldn\u2019t? The courts have said yes, if you serve more than three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge Golriz Ghahraman and the Greens, because, in fact, her amendment, and their amendment, was addressing the Waitangi Tribunal court decision. The issue about prisoners voting rights is incredibly relevant to M\u0101ori. That\u2019s why the Waitangi Tribunal took a position that all prisoners should have the right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b4a597dd-ed8b-42b8-975b-40c6e0cdaee1\u0022\u003ENow, the reality is we don\u2019t strip away citizenship rights from anybody. In fact, if you look at what we\u2019re currently doing, we\u2019re allowing all citizens to come home. Fundamentally, from our perspective, we believe that prisoners have the right to reintegrate into society, and that\u2019s why every three years\u2014and if you\u2019re sentenced to three years\u2014it\u2019s all linked into an electoral cycle. So as a citizen of this country, you have a right to vote for who will govern you. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaaa262a0b034d2691281b1c9ff68e2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaaa262a0b034d2691281b1c9ff68e2f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). I just want to comment about how amusing it is that members opposite are saying is such a pleasure to be here, fixing up their mess from last week, a mess which they created and a mess, which I remind the House, they voted for in the third reading. The Green Party voted for it, the Labour Party voted for it, and the New Zealand First Party voted for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ENow, typically at the second reading of a bill, it\u2019s an opportunity to talk about what we heard at the select committee. Now, how long have we had in the committee for this bill today? Zero\u2014zero. We\u2019re rushing this through under urgency. How many submissions have the public put through? Zero. We\u2019ve had no opportunity for this to go to a select committee. There\u2019s been no opportunity for the public to have a say, and once again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292236a3f6ecf415da1b718286ccdc435\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: No scrutiny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612b10808374475eab74e66a77958d24\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No scrutiny\u2014no scrutiny, exactly. My good friend Scott Simpson says there\u2019s been no scrutiny of this piece of legislation. And you have to ask the question: why are we in this situation? The reason we\u2019re in this situation is because the Government, in their infinite wisdom, decided last week to ram this piece of legislation through, to have a third reading after the committee of the whole House, where the changes were made, without there being any time for there to be any consideration. And here we are with a bill which seems to correct those so-called mistakes which were made by the committee of the whole House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe question has to be asked: why, knowing that, did the Government vote for it? Why did the Government vote for a bill which, essentially, made every prison manager up and down the country a criminal? Why did the Government at third reading vote for a bill which, essentially, makes every prison manager a criminal? That\u2019s the question. Either the Government was fully aware of what the bill did and was therefore acting irresponsibly or they just didn\u2019t understand the legislation they were putting through, and therefore they were incompetent. There\u2019s two things: they were either irresponsible, knowing full well what was in the piece of legislation, or they didn\u2019t understand the legislation they were voting for and therefore they were acting incompetently\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229557f7a651b54b2c960eac8c545e2151\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Or both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7f4412244c45989608d0cd9809777b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Or both. And it could well be that some members knew some parts and some members knew otherwise, because I was here, I was watching it. Ministers were pouring down from the Beehive, trying to understand what was happening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcedf8a3b2b14be5b4043b13c91c6b98\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Running around like headless chickens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f63d84af77465f8664c88246f1162b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and running around like headless chickens; that\u2019s right, Tim van de Molen. He was here watching the mess unfold. Everyone was here. Then there was a little deal done off to the side with the Green Party and the New Zealand First Party, and they either knew full well what they were voting for down here in the House or they were acting irresponsibly and were acting incompetently. The reality was, whatever it was, it was incompetent because this Government voted for a piece of legislation which, essentially, made prison managers criminals by advising and assisting prisoners to enrol to vote, even though they weren\u2019t qualified to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo one part of the piece of legislation said prisoners could only be enrolled to vote if they were sentenced to less than three years. The second part of the legislation, with the Supplementary Order Paper put forward by the Green Party, said: actually, we\u2019re going to require Corrections to assist all prisoners that are received into the prison to enrol to vote. So it\u2019s internally inconsistent and this Government in its shambolic incompetence voted for that piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc96d938d7a94633bb45afe2a874dfce\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you move on to the current bill that we\u2019re debating now, please? [Interruption] You\u2019ve had four minutes\u2014sorry, can you resume your seat?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a65ad645e974fe9914a001aaa16dde9\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh sorry, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221248ea1523364d48848e904bf16f54dd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a good idea to respond by an argument. You\u2019ve had four minutes and I\u2019d really like you to talk about this bill rather than the bill from last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b802b5d283d84e2d9a99ecfdb100c3c2\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about this bill right here, Madam Speaker, because what this bill does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f86707457de4749918018c474c08f10\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s really pushing your luck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6afaf3e50f64623ac4ecf9af63d2cec\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is it tries to fix what did happen last week. So this bill requires Corrections to assist prisoners received into prison to enrol to vote if they\u2019re sentenced to less than three years\u2019 imprisonment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c20d32bf45624ba9b2bca0d5f4ec8a05\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a patch-up job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242af6abff6524e80a944ff9751db19d8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: So it\u2019s a bit of a patch-up. It\u2019s got three parts to it. Firstly, it requires Corrections to assist prisoners received into prison to enrol to vote if they\u2019re sentenced to less than three years\u2019 imprisonment and are therefore qualified to vote. And I remind the House that the New Zealand First Party is giving prisoners who\u2019ve committed serious offences the right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccbc9b73e0c440efaa3c6a6ce1934b66\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: Really?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fad95b712ed44af8ee6b4b8197929fb\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It reasserts\u2014absolutely. It reasserts the requirement on Corrections to assist prisoners sentenced to three years or more imprisonment to enrol to vote before they\u2019re released. And finally, it requires the Electoral Commission to remove from the electoral roll, when notified by Corrections, the names of prisoners who are disqualified from enrolling to vote. Those are the three things that this bill seeks to achieve. Three simple small changes that this bill seeks to achieve, but this is about giving effect to the principle in the previous piece of legislation, which is prisoners serving less than three years are now entitled to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EHe\u2019s got a smirk on his face. Darroch Ball\u2019s got a smirk on his face because he thinks he\u2019s so clever. He thinks he\u2019s so clever, because he thinks he\u2019s going to get away with passing two pieces of legislation over one week under urgency\u2014two pieces of legislation under urgency\u2014and he\u2019s going to think that the public won\u2019t be aware. He\u2019s going to think people out in voter land, the very few left who vote New Zealand First\u2014very few of them, not many of them\u2014won\u2019t see that they have had two pieces of legislation rushed through this House without the level of scrutiny which is required. I challenge the member to take a call and to explain to New Zealanders why he believes\u2014I ask him to take a call and explain to Zealanders why he believes that it\u2019s OK that people convicted to incredibly serious offences should not only be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad005cda07364d4db4c489565026963c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s unconstitutional. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c681dac944d8482baf85713fedaf4a43\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m asking him to take a call\u2014you can take one too, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick. Take a call and explain to New Zealanders why people who are convicted of serious violent offences such as manslaughter, sexual assault, abduction should be given the right to vote, but also that Corrections officers should essentially be giving them additional help in their enrolment process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI ask the question again that I asked in my first reading speech: where is the support and the help given to victims of crime? Where is the support and help given to them when they are hurt by people who commit these serious offences? Where is the support given to them in this process? This bill, essentially, affords additional rights to people who\u2019ve committed crimes but not to people who\u2019ve had serious crimes committed against them. Where\u2019s the support for them? Where\u2019s the support? Where\u2019s the support for people who have had serious offences taken against them, who are trying to get help to potentially have their name put on the secret electoral roll? There\u2019s none. There\u2019s no legislative assistance for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219346167b88e46018f7b43418c609048\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: The member is just plain wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226756e5ea39094665a626d7961d023229\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no legislative assistance for them, is there, Minister? No legislative assistance, is there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ba94c5d09a458b85a1599e22788c65\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Get your facts right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022affdd6c7de19469db8be6ea3aaf77cae\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s getting angry again. That seems to be the modus operandi of the Minister there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo the Government parties have had a shambolic week. And now as we come to the second reading, we are again reminded that these changes have not had the opportunity to have the scrutiny which they deserve. They haven\u2019t had the scrutiny which they should have. They haven\u2019t had a select committee process, which we suggested it have. Nick Smith in the House last week moved that they go to a select committee to ensure that the process has taken place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1d8d5ae51945cf80fab2de4a7e67a7\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Surely the Greens will oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022007b8ae0188a46dd9948d337dc1c4d23\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: And surely the Greens would oppose this sort of rushed urgency. Back in the days, back in the old days, they used to stand in this Parliament and stand on the principle that we shouldn\u2019t be rushing all this legislation through under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc1520c7889346ec9ae98ed3146514eb\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Bring back Catherine Delahunty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec15a28472a24246b38787f572a9d842\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Here they are supporting this to go through under urgency. And I don\u2019t know whether I\u2019d agree with you, Scott Simpson, when you say \u201CBring back Catherine Delahunty.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec3401aae9214b08bb19e79b865f4cf3\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she had principles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0547f05ffa641dbb10fb1bcabb3e1bd\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she might have had principles, but I\u2019m not sure whether we want more Green MPs in Parliament. I think we\u2019ll want less, and we\u2019re not too far away from that being a reality, because a Government that continues to pass legislation like this will face the public of New Zealand in only 80 days and they will show their displeasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022e802bc8c09f146fdaddf432f674d26d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e802bc8c09f146fdaddf432f674d26d4\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I won\u2019t take too long. I just want to point out one thing that, actually, Chris Penk said, and I want to reflect on that a little bit. So Chris Penk said that there\u2019s a difference between principle and politics. That\u2019s what he said. I can\u2019t quite compute that with what the National Party has done last week and this week. So I just want to get something straight, and I want to make sure it\u2019s on record and that everyone understands why we\u2019re here. Last week the National Party voted for a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that gave all prisoners the right to be enrolled to vote. Everyone needs to understand that the National Party last week voted for an SOP that gave all prisoners the right to be enrolled to vote. That includes the Christchurch shooter. They did\u2014the National Party did, right? So that\u2019s the first thing. And what they\u2019ve done is they\u2019re standing up\u2014and David Seymour said it too, on that side of the House\u2014and they\u2019re saying that it makes the current law unworkable now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312c07dde1554e9abb393464e5642bfd\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d43b02f4500e4ca48cc03d2ec5043abf\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: It makes it unworkable now. So we\u2019ve got a \u201CThat\u2019s right\u201D from over that side of the House. So the National Party agrees with that. And they get up and they lecture us on how unworkable it is, and what Mr Brown says is what a shambles this legislation is now. That\u2019s what he said. Mr Brown said this is a shambles now. So let\u2019s get that thing straight. Today we\u2019ve got an SOP that would correct that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277a0da04d0ac4be8bb6170352bfcbd93\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no SOP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1944f5733d04cc593fd0807dc27ba25\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014sorry, legislation that would correct that\u2014and the National Party\u2019s voting against it. So not only did the National Party vote for a piece of legislation that gave every single person in prison the right to be enrolled to vote\u2014and they say it\u2019s a shambles of a piece of legislation now\u2014but we\u2019ve got a piece of legislation on the Table now and they\u2019re going to vote against that. Now, if that\u2019s not the pure definition of disgraceful, petty politics, I don\u2019t know what is, and I hope people are watching the level that the National Party are stooping to to make some stupid, idiotic political point. Anyone over that side of the House I dare to stand up and justify why they voted for that SOP last week and are voting against something that\u2019s going to fix it this day. I dare any member of the National Party to have the courage to stand up and do that, and they won\u2019t, because they don\u2019t have it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002267abd821cc214f07be4597dce838666b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267abd821cc214f07be4597dce838666b\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am looking forward to the committee stage of this Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014the second bill in two weeks, just to be clear\u2014because I would be interested, or one of my colleagues would be very interested, in exploring with the Minister, who will be in the chair, just what Darroch Ball meant when he referred to the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) we were debating this afternoon. So about 3\u00BD to 4 minutes into his speech, Darroch Ball, in full flight, referenced the SOP we are debating today. So that\u2019s good. That will be one of the questions that we will be rehearsing with the Minister in the committee stage of this House. What SOP? What is in the SOP? What is the Government hiding? Is Darroch Ball foreshadowing that there is an SOP to come to the House? In terms of process how does that even work? So that is something which adds to the glaring lack of credibility surrounding the whole sorry saga of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EIf I turn to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2)\u2014which is the second iteration of this bill that has hit the House this week\u2014as a member who did not have an opportunity to speak on this bill on Thursday in urgency last week, and so was not as familiar as to some of the context around this bill. I just thought it might be useful\u2014for me, for me, particularly, because this is an important, significant piece of legislation\u2014just to go through some of the events of last week, which are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252c27362f5124d4b97f8635c314689a7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Could I just say to the member\u2014the member\u2019s had two minutes now, we don\u2019t need her to go over the events of last week, we need her to speak to the bill. It\u2019s not that hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294428b68ae674a8aa7ec70798d18e4c7\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, very much for your guidance. So I\u2019m referring to the purpose of the No. 2 bill at this point, where, in the explanatory note, it says, \u201Cit [the bill] remedies inconsistencies in its provisions about enrolment of sentenced prisoners.\u201D So, in doing so, I would like to speak\u2014as did the Minister in his contribution to the second reading\u2014to and examine some of those inconsistencies that arose last week in the debate to the No. 1 bill, which has led to this House spending more valuable House time putting right, apparently, those inconsistencies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESo, in continuing to speak to the inconsistencies in its provisions, as referenced in the No. 2 bill, I want to spare a moment in terms of process around this second bill, in that the bill, the No. 1 bill, passed its first reading, and enough on that, under urgency last week. The officials, I\u2019m assuming, were then sent away and given, effectively, three days to write the No. 2 bill. Just a few words on that process, which remedies inconsistency\u2014so that\u2019s what these officials were sent away to do over the weekend. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. It might be said this is a bill that went through under urgency. There are inconsistencies in its provisions, I read from the No. 2 bill here, and so fair enough. Let\u2019s send the officials away to put it right and we\u2019ll deal with it under urgency again. The question arises, of course: why? Why is it that this bill must be addressed through all stages in urgency, the very next sitting day of this House? But I will leave that aside as a question that can only be answered by the Minister in the committee stage. And I am sure that there will be a number of questions of the Minister in the committee stage on that matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ENow, it would not be quite so egregious that officials are sent to correct a mistake purely of the Government\u2019s making, purely of the Minister\u2019s making in his failure to recognise in the \u201CNo. 1\u201D bill that inconsistencies were going to arise in the passage of that bill. All that Minister, Andrew Little, had to do was to swallow his pride just a little bit and acknowledge that the Government had been snookered into a position, embarrassing though it may be\u2014embarrassing though it may be\u2014and exposing absolutely the flaws in this Government in that it passed under urgency the third reading of a bill which has inconsistencies, which this bill, the No. 2 bill, and the SOP, Darroch Ball, which we know is going to accompany it because that has been foreshadowed by Darroch Ball in his magnificent speech where he referred\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd6e60cdd38d4de1addaa4629c823061\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5cd90fe5ebb4588be3763139368e1ea\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Darroch Ball doesn\u2019t like having this pointed out, but, Darroch Ball, I will be watching with great interest for the SOP that that member brings to this House in the committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBut I want to get back to the officials just for a moment, because not only were they required to work through the weekend, and we\u2019re seeing a lot of that at the moment\u2014officials being required to work all through the weekend so that this House can consider pieces of legislation, in this case under urgency; the rationale for which escapes me, but as I say, I wasn\u2019t in the House last week. I was not taking part in this debate. But those very officials have been sent away to correct a mistake, not made by them\u2014it wasn\u2019t a drafting mistake, it wasn\u2019t a policy mistake; the mistake lies fairly and squarely with the Minister, Andrew Little. Where is the responsibility taken for that? No, he has spent much of today under urgency blaming everyone else but himself. Well, I think that members over the other side say the New Zealand public are watching. Yes, the New Zealand public are watching and the New Zealand public are not silly. They can see exactly what\u2019s happened. This Government has been well and truly snookered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the lack of select committee hearings in terms of process with this No. 2 bill and the assertion, again, by the Minister, Andrew Little, that this anomaly, this inconsistency in provisions about enrolment for sentenced prisoners, is going to be corrected through this No. 2 bill. How do we know that? How do we know that\u2014they didn\u2019t get it right the first time? How can this House, how can that New Zealand public who are watching this debate under urgency, be assured that there isn\u2019t another mistake contained within this No. 2 bill? Well, there is no way for the public to know. There is no way for this Parliament to know\u2014and there is no way for this Parliament to know because there has been no external scrutiny\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236293cd9cadc4d3f97ad34109515c4c6\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there has been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7ad1b1334ab4e3bab7aa29ef107a44f\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of the provisions in this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ed7cabce523447586d4ea5162c3c4b1\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there has been. The member knows it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857806dc3b0648b5bf5384b7a997ce47\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which seek to remedy inconsistencies, and when any member over this side of the House begins to make a new point, it fires up the Minister who goes by his well-earned term \u201CAngry Andy\u201D. I beg your pardon, Madam Speaker; I should say angry Andrew Little gets fired up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe abuse, I\u2019m afraid, is quite extraordinary. There have been two references in the course of this debate to mental health. How can that be from a caring Government? That\u2019s another question for the Minister in the committee stage of this bill: how can it be said that Minister of Justice gets up in this House and flippantly makes references to mental health in respect of the Opposition in this Parliament? How can that be from a Government whose cornerstone is kindness? And if we will recall the Speech from the Throne, it put as one of its strongest tenets to address mental illness. Where\u2019s the inconsistency in that? Well, it\u2019s absolutely glaringly obvious to those of us on this side of the House, and I wonder what Andrew Geddis will think about this bill. What will Andrew Geddis think? He is a well-known legislative observer who gets consulted widely. What will that member of the public think about this bill? Well, we will never know, will we, because there was not a select committee process. The first bill was flawed. The second bill is even worse. We do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5bfb13c935440edba9cdc0f4f8c11cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5bfb13c935440edba9cdc0f4f8c11cd\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. Well done, National! You guys won the game of politics. I hope that you feel really stoked about this situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust to make it really clear to members of the general public who are listening to this debate in the House today, how we got here is that the National Party decided that they would vote for half of a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP). The first half of that SOP would have enfranchised all prisoners. The second half required that prison officers had to enrol and register prisoners, basically, to enable the first half of that Supplementary Order Paper in the name of my colleague Golriz Ghahraman. The National Party decided, in the committee of the whole House stage of the first iteration of this bill, that it would be really fun not to vote for that first part but to vote for the second so that they could bring us all back here so that we had to do this second round, under urgency, to remedy that mistake. And well done, well done! This is what you guys wanted. Cool; you won. We\u2019re quite happy to say that you won on this point. You played the game, but you played the game with people\u2019s lives, and you have wasted time in Parliament, which you are now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf661512a0c44437b8c5d32d36a89267\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: That member is a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b01ea161b24448a472827c602981b2\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: I will not be called a disgrace by members of the Opposition who are happy to tell me what to do with my uterus and take away my right to marry. So the National Party have played the game of politics. They\u2019ve played it well, but that\u2019s all that they can claim today. It\u2019s not the moral high ground in any way, shape, or form. And, in fact, I think that most New Zealanders would be gutted, if not disgusted, to see this time in the House wasted right now. We will not waste any more time debating this bill but support it and hope that we manage to get it through, because it\u2019s simply common sense. The Green Party supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u002268a015d91d2a46479114ace37d77dbbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268a015d91d2a46479114ace37d77dbbe\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak to the second Electoral\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a7497f942964f38aa95c239eb36771d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a21c7b0b7d8412a9f66ca6da0ebb029\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to be able to speak in reference to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). This bill seeks to remedy inconsistencies that have arisen in the passing of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act 2020, passed late last week under urgency. The Act was passed by a majority vote\u2014with National voting against on third reading\u2014despite an inconsistency in its provisions. The provisions about the enrolment of sentenced prisoners, which were introduced by the amendments to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, resulted from the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 518, which proposed two amendments: one extended reinstating the right to vote to all prisoners, regardless of the crime they\u2019ve committed or the duration of the sentence that they are serving, and the second was to take away the Electoral Commission\u2019s power to stop disqualified voters from enrolling. The first proposed amendment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba383006231495ba69822bc0f694eab\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Why did National support that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae0944a8918945c7ab7149425bfa5a36\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: I will address that in a few moments. The first proposed amendment, which would see all prisoners given the right to vote, failed to gain enough support. However, the second proposed amendment, which removes the Electoral Commission\u2019s power to stop disqualified voters from enrolling, passed, making the bill inconsistent and thus unworkable, requiring this current legislation to be passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225438049151a646f092b8137d987d8643\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Why did National vote for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e5712fc03144e28e5d23e0a078a7c4\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m coming up to that point. As urgency has been called again to pass this second bill, we are now going through all the steps in the legislative process again, in an abbreviated manner, in order to pass this bill. This bill seeks to correct the inconsistencies in the Act by repealing the changes that were made to the Act by SOP 518, so the law is internally coherent and consistent with the intended policy of the Act, which is, essentially, to reinstate a prisoner\u2019s right to vote when the prisoner is serving a sentence of less than three years. In particular, clause 5 of this bill, amending section 86A of the Electoral Act, now only requires Corrections to assist prisoners received into prison to enrol to vote if they are sentenced to less than three years\u2019 imprisonment, and therefore are considered qualified to vote, and to confirm whether they would like for their details to be passed on to the Electoral Commission. Clause 6 inserts a new section, a section 86AB, which reinserts the requirement for corrections officers to assist prisoners sentenced to three years or more to be enrolled upon their release, and to confirm whether they would like their enrolment details to be sent to the Electoral Commission, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EFor clarity, it\u2019s just good to review the process for passing legislation in the New Zealand Parliament. A bill is first introduced in the House and progresses into its first reading. After first reading, on another sitting day, the bill is referred to the appropriate select committee for consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f1f7e2fae3446abf7aa77616eef92a\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: We know the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b33f3ffc71ab42608cb0acdc745912d5\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but others do not. The bill is then scheduled for a second reading, followed by consideration by the committee of the whole House. The third reading then follows. That debate will then be held and, once completed, voting will be commenced. The entire process takes approximately six months. The Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill was at the point of consideration by the committee of the whole House when the Green Party SOP 518 was taken up and voted on. The resulting inconsistency would soon become evident. Addressing one of the points of the members on the other side, my National colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith did attempt to have the bill referred back to select committee, but this offer was rejected. There was opportunity and time for the bill to have been corrected at that point. So when there are speeches that tend to show that there was no opportunity for correction after the SOP had been voted on and passed, they are incorrect. There was opportunity. The opportunity was presented; the opportunity was rejected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have raised three points that I take this opportunity to address. They said that National toyed with the process by voting down the first part of the SOP, the proposed amendment by the Green Party, and voting in favour of the second, which passed. As I am neither a skilled or a fiery interjector myself, I wish to apportion a small portion of my time to speak on this point: firstly, to say that there has been little opportunity for National to win votes in this House, as we\u2019re outnumbered by the coalition Government, and so ascribing blame for the second amendment to have passed to National is totally and quite simply pointing the finger for that resulting inconsistency in the wrong direction. Secondly, as previously mentioned, National, through my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith, did attempt to have the bill referred back to the Justice Committee to correct the errors, and the Government simply refused to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022477048d2adc5492b824c81f9f87ed714\u0022\u003EDarroch Ball\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, you\u2019ve got two minutes left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc010182c20440bab560a541a7b36716\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have no time left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0df461102c7423ca963f2809ee05df9\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: If they did, we could all be here in urgency on another bill that would have some impact on possibly helping business or improving the economic situation of New Zealand, which we are all deeply mired in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe other point that has been raised is that many submissions have been received in support of the Act\u2014because no submissions have been received on this bill, so I assume that the submissions that the other members have spoken about are submitted on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act. I just would like to express my surprise at the importance and value the members opposite have given to the number of submissions that they have received in support of the Act, when, within the last seven months, two bills received a huge number of submissions\u201438,000 for one bill, over 25,000 for another bill\u2014and those bills passed without those submissions being given as much importance as the submissions are being given at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENational opposed the Act and opposes the amendments, simply because National does not support the reinstatement of voting rights to sentenced prisoners. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4dd14b7c2d54a178ba7cb4236a99042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4dd14b7c2d54a178ba7cb4236a99042\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call Anahila Kanongata\u2019a-Suisuiki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u002250ac37eff8a0408db3c2f17644f02508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250ac37eff8a0408db3c2f17644f02508\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2019A-SUISUIKI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Te Mana Whakaw\u0101. Kei te tautoko ahau i t\u0113nei pire ki Te Whare. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Madam Speaker. I support this bill to the House. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u002206c58a4966c049898d7b4af26152dbaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206c58a4966c049898d7b4af26152dbaf\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak tonight on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). Now, usually at this stage of the debate we would be discussing and debating some of the issues that were raised at the select committee and some of the views that were expressed, but unfortunately, of course, we\u2019ve been denied that opportunity in this Parliament because, of course, this bill isn\u2019t going to a select committee. We are debating the bill through all stages in urgency with no select committee and, I\u2019m sure, a very truncated committee of the whole House stage as well. And that\u2019s a real shame, I think, because, as the Minister expressed earlier in the debate, there were quite a number of submitters on the original bill\u2014I suppose which we call the \u201CNo. 1 bill\u201D that was progressed through the House last week\u2014but unfortunately no opportunity for scrutiny by a select committee on this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI say that with a real sense of disappointment, I suppose, because it should be enormously obvious to all members in this House that a mistake was made in this legislation, that amendments were put forward by the Green Party, some of which were supported by this Parliament, and that has created an inconsistency in this bill. In fact, the amendment bill that was passed last week has only been in law for a matter of hours; it was, I think, given Royal assent yesterday. And yet here we are debating under urgency a bill that would amend it yet again. But unfortunately, the very inconsistencies that this bill seeks to address were created\u2014well, they were created by way of a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP), which is referred to in the bill, and that is SOP 518.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIn the bill, it refers to, as referenced in the bill, the fact that the amendment was agreed to by the Parliament at its committee of the whole House stage. As is detailed in the bill, SOP 518 proposed to repeal section 80(1)(d) of the Electoral Act 1993, which would have given all prisoners the right to vote. As I\u2019ve said a number of occasions, that is a very consistent view to hold, and it\u2019s certainly one that the Green Party hold, but not one that is held on this side of the House. Part of that SOP wasn\u2019t passed, of course, that would\u2019ve been the amendment which would have extended the right to vote to all prisoners. But what this Parliament did vote for was an amendment which does require corrections to assist all prisoners, received in to prison, to enrol to vote, and the bill describes that to be, quote, \u201Cinternally inconsistent\u201D, and, of course, it is. So the law, as it currently stands\u2014as I say, it\u2019s been on the books for a matter of hours\u2014requires corrections to assist all prisoners to enrol to vote, and yet the Act that was given Royal assent still makes it illegal for prisoners who are given a sentence of greater than three years to enrol to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIt is what my colleague Chris Bishop would probably describe as an absolute shemozzle. This bill canvasses that point. It says, quote, \u201CThe passage of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill \u2026 now places unworkable obligations on the Department of Corrections \u2026 and the Electoral Commission.\u201D\u2014it goes on to say, \u201CThose obligations are not in line with the intended policy that only prisoners serving sentences of less than 3 years should be able to enrol to vote.\u201D And so my question for the Minister, which I do hope he will address in a later contribution later on tonight, is in respect of other inconsistencies in the bill, because as much as this bill tries to remedy the inconsistencies that were created last week, it also creates other ones. So, for example, why is it that the example that was being given by the Government of their position is that prisoners should be allowed to vote on the Government that will be in power when they are released? And yet this bill doesn\u2019t actually do that, and nor does the bill that was passed last week. Because all this bill does is extends the right to vote to prisoners\u2014or both bills, in fact, extend the right to vote to prisoners who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment of less than three years. What it doesn\u2019t do is what the Minister has described, which is give all prisoners the right to vote in their last three years, as in those prisoners who are going to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d4f998a9ac04f7b914d75e21dfc4dcb\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very good speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399da8490f5f4b658470b9bc7b1caf6d\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014thank you, Mr Bayly\u2014in the Minister\u2019s words, vote for the Government that that will be in power when they are released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ENow, I do briefly want to come back to the Supplementary Order Paper that is referred to in the bill, that\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper 518, that this bill essentially repeals. That amendment was put forward by the Green Party, so I hope that a Green MP\u2014and we\u2019ve heard some contributions earlier from Golriz Ghahraman and Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick. I do want to hear from them if they plan to put up a similar SOP to SOP 518. Because that would be useful information for members on this side of the House to know. If they\u2019re going to hold that consistent view that all prisoners should be allowed to vote, will they in the committee of the whole House stage, put up another SOP, similar to one they put up, last week for the House to consider, perhaps vote on? I\u2019m sure National colleagues on this side of the House would be very, very interested to hear it. I\u2019m sure the Minister on the other side of the House, frankly, would be very, very interested to hear that, because it does go to a pretty fundamental point on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe do have concerns about the process, and I\u2019ll cover that in later contributions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff0eb6aca8714cee9d38f425aa9acecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff0eb6aca8714cee9d38f425aa9acecf\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m delighted to take a very short call this evening on this bill and very, very pleased to commend it to the House. However, before I take my seat, I\u2019d just like to say I\u2019m very pleased to be standing and speaking because what you will see from this side of the House is a clear and consistent plan to follow through on what we wanted to do. What you\u2019ll see from the Opposition is flip-flopping, and they\u2019re constantly doing it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002204355b197a864ecca9079fb865e125c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204355b197a864ecca9079fb865e125c7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I won\u2019t see anything\u2014I mean, I will see it, but don\u2019t bring me into the debate. That\u2019s not a good use of \u201Cyou\u201D. I know we\u2019ve loosened it up, but that\u2019s not a good use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u00224510056e8b3a498cacf154ddaa6b0ac2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224510056e8b3a498cacf154ddaa6b0ac2\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Madam Speaker, look, one of the ironies of tonight\u2019s debates: I am not a flip-flopper at all; it\u2019s one of the probably annoying elements to the Labour Party that I\u2019m relatively consistent. But one of the things I also have noted tonight in the contributions is that the Labour Party, Greens, and New Zealand First seem very keen to give, if you will, many voices to prisoners but not exercise any voice themselves, taking remarkably and appallingly short calls. As I say, they themselves on the Government benches are not prepared to speak to this bill, in defence or otherwise, but are more than happy for those who commit criminal offences to have an enormous voice\u2014and, in fact, one of the most important voices of all\u2014which is the vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re here at the second reading\u2014always a remarkable instance to be, first and foremost, doing a second reading literally minutes after the first reading, and not a second after a select committee. And, for those at home who are going, \u201CWhat on earth is he talking about?\u201D\u2014which in itself may be a common experience\u2014and asking, \u201CWhat does he mean?\u201D, what I mean is that we\u2019ve had no select committee process. And I understand that fine colleagues on this side, who have chosen to use more of the English vernacular than the other\u2014mainly they\u2019ve got past the words \u201Cthe\u201D and \u201Ccommend\u201D\u2014have pointed out that there\u2019s been no committee. I\u2019m not going to drag that out too much, but, again, that\u2019s a fairly major affront. I acknowledge this is a small change, and the reasons for it, I think, we will quickly look over, but fundamentally there is a paradox\u2014there is a paradox\u2014at play. We are giving the right to vote to prisoners. And, look, there\u2019s good reason for that. I mean, we disagree on this side of the House as a party but there is, if you will, a good, moral argument for prisoners to have a vote, to have a say. Yet the paradox, of course, tonight is that the New Zealand public are given absolutely no right to have a say on this bill. They\u2019ve been censored, for want of a better word. They\u2019ve been precluded\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214f2f83e9a7c4559afe153326070222a\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Outrageous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0babea61efe4e7d82c0331dadb1b91b\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It is outrageous. Again, the irony is doubly so\u2014if one can double irony, but it\u2019s been doubly, doubly so\u2014that, again, prisoners are allowed to speak. They\u2019re allowed to exercise their voice and to vote, but the New Zealand public is not being given any chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve come into a second reading without having, in effect, gone through the right and due processes, which, again, just highlights the problem we\u2019re dealing with here: that we\u2019re giving rights to prisoners but removing, in effect, the rights of the Parliament, the rights of the New Zealand public. As I said, though, and it\u2019s tempting to throw a bouquet at the Government, it is legitimate to argue that prisoners should have the right to vote. There is an element of saying, \u201CActually, those who are incarcerated should vote for the very system which incarcerates them.\u201D It\u2019s a valid position. It\u2019s one that the National Party, of course, does not share. We are, of course, her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition, and we\u2019re allowed to take that position. Unfortunately, we\u2019ve had a Government, or an array of governing parties, which are completely confused. And that\u2019s why we\u2019ve ended up at this second reading tonight\u2014under urgency, I might add; under urgency. We\u2019ve already spent, effectively, two extra days last week considering legislation, including the first draft of this, and, because of, effectively\u2014I\u2019d better not use too much colloquialism tonight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6f9258218b4005ae5d1cf2f0d30a8d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2d024e01ebb42f0a43fb64d32397bfc\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: But because the Government has stuffed up the processes, we\u2019ve got to waste more of the Parliament\u2019s time to get this right. And why we\u2019re doing this now at the second reading is a clear disparity in understanding between the governing parties. We have the purists, which are the Greens\u2014I\u2019m not sure I really want to use the words \u201Cpurist\u201D and \u201CGreens\u201D together. I\u2019m not sure whether that\u2019s a contradiction in itself. The purists in the Greens say that every prisoner has the right to vote, from the serial offender, the rapist, the murderer, the mass murderer, right through to the person who steals a candy bar. They\u2019re purist. New Zealand First\u2014I don\u2019t know where they are; they\u2019re all over the place. It\u2019s funny that they\u2019re actually not putting New Zealanders first in this instance. And then Labour, which is taking, again, a more moderate position but saying, \u201CIf you\u2019re serving over three years \u2026\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re in this situation consequently because the parties themselves could not agree in principle and the parties themselves could not actually organise themselves sufficiently to progress the bill last week in a way that made coherent form. And, I suppose my major issue, then, in this second reading contribution, is how on earth can we have confidence in a Government to protect the democratic rights of New Zealanders when they cannot even get right the fundamental pieces of law to enable, in this case, criminals to vote? It\u2019s a very odd situation, and I think, unfortunately, it just highlights not only the disparity of views on the other side, and particularly between three parties, but it just highlights the absolute fundamental problems of a democratic system that they\u2019re applying\u2014and democracy is good, by the way; just to make that clear, but the application of democratic processes are being completely mixed up to achieve an end which is very controversial, very controversial. As I say, a person can take, quite rightly, the moral position that people should vote for the system which incarcerates them. However, I have no doubt\u2014not that I have seen the Labour Party polling. You can all relax; it hasn\u2019t been leaked to me\u2014yet. They\u2019ll know that this is incredibly unpopular in the New Zealand public; that people\u2014[Interruption] Someone laughs, mainly because they don\u2019t actually know what the public opinion is\u2014very unpopular; very, very unpopular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EAnd so here we are on a Tuesday night\u20147.30, a quarter to eight at night\u2014pushing this through at speed, at absolute speed. And it\u2019s an affront, particularly at the second reading, that the other side, the governmental side, will not take proper calls to defend it. And it takes me back to that aspect of principle: if they actually hold to the principle of voters\u2019 rights\u2014and, again, I am happy to take a more moderate position here, to say it\u2019s a valid position. I don\u2019t agree with it. Or, rather, the National Party doesn\u2019t agree with it. Why would they not stand up and defend it rigorously? I\u2019ve always said, and maybe it\u2019s the philosopher in me, but if you\u2019re confident in your argument, you can stand confidently and argue the case. And we\u2019re not having it here. And what makes it even worse for me is, again, we haven\u2019t had a select committee, where normally seven, eight, or nine MPs can robustly discuss elements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003ESo it brings me to my final point, which will probably be a great relief to the other side\u2014and that\u2019s probably a heads-up for the person on that other side who\u2019s about to take a two to three second call\u2014and that is, fundamentally, what other mistakes are going to have happened? Well, maybe we\u2019ll sort them out in the committee of the whole House stage, and I know this is a relatively simple bill, but we\u2019ve already had a problem. We\u2019ve already had a problem that\u2019s got us to tonight. It was rushed through, not well thought through. Well, the Government again is rushing this little bit of legislation through. What, I ask rhetorically, will the Government get wrong tonight? Are myself and other colleagues going to have to return in coming days, in a couple of weeks after the recess, to fix that next mess? But the fundamental mess we\u2019re going to have is applying elements of democracy to people, if you will, who have lost that right, and I suspect voters at the election will not forget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll leave a little bit of that to a third reading speech, after, of course, we have robustly discussed this in the committee stage, which I know Kieran McAnulty is going to be absolutely thrilled about. I have no doubt he\u2019ll be moving motions very quickly\u2014the only contribution\u2014but we look forward to discussing it further. But, as I say, I am looking forward to the next two- to three- second contribution from the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00229594591aaed047c0819e33d709653759\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229594591aaed047c0819e33d709653759\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m amazed. I\u2019m amazed at the gall of the other speaker that would dare, tonight of all nights, mention a leaked poll\u2014the night that Newshub published their own leaked poll that had Labour at 55 percent. So I stand here with utter confidence, Mr Simon O\u2019Connor, that this side of the House knows exactly what the public wants. What they do not want is that party playing silly games. There they were standing, last week, patting themselves on the back and giving themselves high-fives because they thought they\u2019d pulled a swifty. Then they looked at the news and no one covered it, because the media realised that they were pathetic\u2014that they thought they were cool but they weren\u2019t. It was a reminder of back in the old school days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut here we are, fixing the mess that they needed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284eabb0dbf1d4ae6a2b172233c8de63e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Talk to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a38f0239e3447d90f10193cdc230cf\u0022\u003EKIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. It\u2019s a great bill. We are fixing this mess and having to come back unnecessarily because the National Party wanted to play games. It hasn\u2019t worked for them. It\u2019s not going to work for them at the election. I have absolutely no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220c97a90332794238b099453f0866cbb1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8d401f2b05146c99895a0977558a104\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca4cab16a6184c0682eaad1de565c3ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca4cab16a6184c0682eaad1de565c3ce\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions of the bill to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbbe4af7de014d64955388ce0c50b994\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbbe4af7de014d64955388ce0c50b994\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221461270c486846678eb8b5e922ccaed7\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments relating to registration of sentenced prisoners as electors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022b037af3730044e3ba0c50b76793e6205\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b037af3730044e3ba0c50b76793e6205\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I have a succession of questions which, in the spirit of committee stage debates as we run them these days, I\u2019ll address in short order on each occasion. My first question to the Minister is whether a report was produced by the Attorney-General in relation to the question of consistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, first; whether any of the issues in the bill engaged such rights; and, if so, whether such consistency is achieved? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022 data-id=\u002220ca0f86eaa44dd0b3c51d82af17c7b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220ca0f86eaa44dd0b3c51d82af17c7b5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259f818ad7ad044f1b0f46a631550544c\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Little\u003C/span\u003E: Andrew Little. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207eda6e375214152aa18bd024c18b239\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Andrew Little\u2014yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002262ad474165694112ae19300603f1b1ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262ad474165694112ae19300603f1b1ea\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014that\u2019s all right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de6adbe89ae24df1babc4820b3094a71\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: I was taking a breath\u2014I was taking a breath. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2c09b30c68942ab83795289fb996b7a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, this is an answer that will possibly apply to many questions that the members opposite wish to ask tonight, if the second reading debate speeches are anything to go by, and that is this: the provisions of this bill have been before a select committee. The provisions of this bill were in the bill that was in the House last week, that bill was subject to examination and scrutiny by the Justice Committee, and so, in answer to that member\u2019s question: the Attorney-General has provided advice in relation to identically equivalent positions in this bill that happened to be in a different bill\u2014the bill passed last week. And that member can be reassured that these provisions are consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which is nothing less than the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court and the Waitangi Tribunal asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002211122f26e3db430bab97c03b094d6879\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211122f26e3db430bab97c03b094d6879\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E To the Minister, is it not the case that the law requires that a bill that is introduced to the House be subject to consideration, at least, by the New Zealand Attorney-General as to whether its issues engage the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022159dc840eece4a95b689b1a9d9c5e9d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022159dc840eece4a95b689b1a9d9c5e9d6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I suppose for those of us who live in the common-sense world, in the world of practicality, we don\u2019t sort of do things over and over again if we can possibly avoid it. I can\u2019t speak for this House of course, or members opposite, but we don\u2019t want the Crown Law Office or the Ministry of Justice having to provide identical advice for a bill which is there trying to reinstate what was in a previous bill but for the fact that there was a little bit of, shall we say, bobsy-die at the committee stages thanks to members opposite. So I understand the point the member is making, but the reality is that member has recourse to advice from the Attorney-General that certifies that this bill is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00226b38e706d1404d3caa23be3b2f4a7069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b38e706d1404d3caa23be3b2f4a7069\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So do I understand the Minister correctly that his view of a common-sense approach to lawmaking is more important than the law itself, in terms of the procedure that is to be followed with legislation being introduced in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00224b2a146b31c942d98cfcbf3376ffd9ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b2a146b31c942d98cfcbf3376ffd9ff\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I can, in fact, assist the member, and indeed possibly even correct myself, that the Attorney-General has indeed provided advice. I have it in my hands\u2014in relation to this very specific bill; that is, the No. 2 bill\u2014and it confirms that it is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. It is dated 26 June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002217fe54a43dcd4fc0a112105dd8c38917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217fe54a43dcd4fc0a112105dd8c38917\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. To the Minister: is that publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223533857af3b04e3da9c2e2efe4893dcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223533857af3b04e3da9c2e2efe4893dcb\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E It can be made available very shortly. We\u2019ve just got to crank up the photocopier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002265af2f1dc3f948e9af152807c7fe83f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265af2f1dc3f948e9af152807c7fe83f1\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Does the Minister believe it would be helpful for that to be available to members of Parliament prior to the passage of legislation, or indeed its introduction more particularly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002259c4b20cc6ee4d4dbef82321f2aef64e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259c4b20cc6ee4d4dbef82321f2aef64e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I think it would be helpful if all members of the House could proceed on the basis that all members of the House vote in a consistent and principled fashion, but we\u2019ve got past that part. So, look, the reality is that when events happen like the ones last week and we\u2019re called upon in very short order to remediate them, processes don\u2019t go as smoothly as they might otherwise do. But, with all due respect, particularly to that member, who commands an enormous amount of respect on the other side of the House because of the thoughtful approach to lawmaking that he takes, the reality is that whatever that member and his colleagues might say about members on this side of the House\u2014whether members from the Green Party, whether me\u2014the truth is that members on that side of the House bear responsibility for what happened last week, too. Do not demand of members on this side of the House perfection that that member and his colleagues have shown they\u2019re incapable of demonstrating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00222160e4e2913048d4a7d9244702206955\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222160e4e2913048d4a7d9244702206955\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I am grateful to the Minister for his comments. Taking the Minister at his word, that that will be made available, can I ask, without having had the benefit of reading it, does the advice or the report of the Attorney-General state that the net effect of this legislation will be that the Electoral Act is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9dbe28549f44c6c87de5b1f46724f1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9dbe28549f44c6c87de5b1f46724f1f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, that is precisely what it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022797dd821d18e4508af358746aa0584f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022797dd821d18e4508af358746aa0584f1\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. How can that be the case when the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act has been said to be inconsistent not only by our previous Attorney-General but also senior courts, as the Minister of Justice has referred to, in that it does not afford to all prisoners the right to vote and the net effect of this bill, including in conjunction with the previous bill, tabled last week, was such that some prisoners remain unable to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cafb91aac4b844358bf951ffa7c73cd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cafb91aac4b844358bf951ffa7c73cd7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the member will know that what this bill does\u2014this bill does not change the rules about qualification, or, for that matter, disqualification for voting or enrolling. That was last week\u2019s bill. What this bill does is deal with the administrative end of it, which, because of the shenanigans that happened last week, means that the administrative provisions\u2014that is to say, the duty or obligation or role of prison officers to give advice to prisoners who might otherwise be eligible to vote, and, indeed, the collection of information that is then forwarded to the Electoral Commission\u2014are what we are correcting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is corrected is the removal in last week\u2019s legislation of the power of the Electoral Commission to remove disqualified voters from the electoral roll. To the extent that this bill does those things, it upholds their right to vote in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, it is consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00222375a19dc0d7409394df63269e1df632\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222375a19dc0d7409394df63269e1df632\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014in anticipation\u2014and thank you to the Minister for that answer. But is it not true, then, that this bill fails to fix the problem that has been advertised to which it was supposedly the solution\u2014namely, inconsistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f3426625a2a4b589b79b694c40cdbb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f3426625a2a4b589b79b694c40cdbb2\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E No, that wasn\u2019t the advertised objective. I\u2019m not sure where that member and his colleague Mr Falloon are getting their advice from. They\u2019re watching a different channel or something\u2014I don\u2019t know. But the stated objective of this bill was to correct the errors or the oversights or the inconsistencies of last week\u2019s legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ESo this bill is focused on two principal things, and one is the duties or obligations on prison officers to give advice to prisoners. So whereas last week\u2019s legislation required prison officers to give advice to prisoners\u2014all prisoners\u2014regardless of length of sentence, that they were entitled to be on the roll when demonstrably they\u2019re not, and to collect information and pass it to the Electoral Commission, that is fixed in this bill. The other thing that is fixed is whereas before\u2014and, indeed, in the legislation passed by the National Government in 1993\u2014the Electoral Commission had the right to remove from the roll disqualified voters, that power is being reinstated in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThose are the things that are happening in this bill. Whatever else that member thinks was advertised, he\u2019s got the wrong advertisement or the wrong product, or he is watching the wrong channel. But what I said about this bill is what is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022aac3e591c1234adab6fd53df721179c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aac3e591c1234adab6fd53df721179c3\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and, again, thank you to the Minister. If it is not relevant to the passage of this particular piece of legislation that prisoners should have the right to vote as determined by various senior courts, why have the Minister and other Government MPs been referring to that numerous times throughout the legislation\u2014throughout the passage of this bill tonight? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022854ec73acb2a497b8e9c374e5e974874\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022854ec73acb2a497b8e9c374e5e974874\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think it is a matter, ultimately, for the Chair but it has been correct for members on all sides of the Chamber to put some context around the legislation. Most members, I think, have spoken to the legislation, but I can\u2019t account for it and it\u2019s not my responsibility, particularly for members opposite and the contributions they make. If the member is concerned about what some of his colleagues have said\u2014and I agree with him; he should be concerned about them\u2014that is a matter for him and his caucus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002295348549181b4126a59f8b3071d2f6db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295348549181b4126a59f8b3071d2f6db\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Is the Electoral Act, which this amendment bill seeks to amend, going to be consistent with the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014as in, I suppose if I were to rephrase the question: does the Minister expect that the Waitangi Tribunal would consider that the Electoral Act, which this bill amends, will not represent a breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi following the passage of this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab3a62c60b7b42698649263891172498\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab3a62c60b7b42698649263891172498\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question about Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The truth is the Waitangi Tribunal recommended that the disqualification on any prisoner be removed. That was the Waitangi Tribunal, and it laid out a case for that, and it said that M\u0101ori who are deregistered, if you like, or dis-enrolled from the electoral roll are nearly 12 times more likely not to re-enrol, and therefore to vote, than P\u0101keh\u0101 who were affected by the legislation. In any event, as the member knows\u2014as, indeed, the Government of the day did in 1993\u2014a judgment gets made about what fits a modern democratic principle. A principle that can be easily defended, because I think New Zealanders understand\u2014which might explain why 78 percent of submitters to the original bill supported it\u2014is that those who were in prison in one election and who, by dint of the fact they were on a sentence of less than three years, are guaranteed to be out of prison by the next election must have a right to have a say on who is leading the country that they are going to be released free into. That is the underlying principle of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2158fedeaca45fb84722b5f85e30e6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2158fedeaca45fb84722b5f85e30e6a\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve listened very carefully to the Minister\u2019s answers to those questions from my colleague Chris Penk, and the Minister of Justice tried to assert some sort of shambolic behaviour on behalf of the National Party in his comments. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister: why did he not support the motion by the Hon Nick Smith to put the bill back to select committee after the committee of the whole House last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00223fac7603f8fa43cb8638a37c7d739342\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fac7603f8fa43cb8638a37c7d739342\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The member asked a very good question, and the member may or may not know that when the original bill\u2014the one that was passed last week, in its deformed state\u2014went to the select committee, because the select committee was split, was equally divided, it could not make a decision on the bill, including an obvious improvement to it that actually members opposite wanted, and so the bill was returned unchanged. Of course, there was no guarantee or indication that were that bill to be returned to the select committee, the select committee was in any better position to do anything other than what it did before, which was not make a decision and refer the bill back to the House unchanged. On that basis, given the track record of that committee in its handling of this legislation, there was no merit at all in returning the bill to that select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022412f4387fd7546ae8cb624d33614919a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412f4387fd7546ae8cb624d33614919a\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E So why did the Minister then pass the bill and vote for it in the third reading, knowing that it was a flawed bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u00226b458a3655734d50b2096da49a6cc27f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b458a3655734d50b2096da49a6cc27f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, any number of members could take responsibility for the flaws in the bill, but actually a lot of it sits on that side of the Chamber. In any event, the bill was passed and it was very clear that it could be fixed. That undertaking was given that night, because all parties in Government accepted that it needed to be fixed. That was the commitment we made to each other and we have done that. There are no Supplementary Order Papers to pollute or contaminate this process and we are in the process of correcting the flaws in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00227c8419ca653c4860973e0b46079c252b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c8419ca653c4860973e0b46079c252b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to ask a question around clause 7(5), where it says \u201CIf, at any time after a prison manager sends a prisoner\u2019s information to the Electoral Commission, the overall length of a prisoner\u2019s sentence or sentences of imprisonment changes in a way that results in the prisoner becoming disqualified for registration as an elector under section 80(1)(d), the prison manager must advise the Electoral Commission.\u201D I\u2019d like to ask the Minister whether that in effect means that if someone commits an offence whilst they are in prison and they are then given an additional sentence, which puts them above a three-year sentence, which means they would be technically disqualified\u2014does this actually disqualify them from voting or does this provision just simply mean the prison manager must advise the Electoral Commission of that and then the Electoral Commission must do the disqualification?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002246ba928417174ee29fcb270e9f0d5641\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246ba928417174ee29fcb270e9f0d5641\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I invite the member to read the clause very carefully. There could be any number of reasons why a prisoner\u2019s sentence changes, and, therefore, pushes them into disqualification territory. It might be that previous charges, not previously tried or considered by the court and, therefore, not the subject of the sentence that landed that prisoner in prison in the first place, may have been processed and an additional sentence added. It may well be that the Crown appealed the sentence because it considered that the sentence was too short and the prisoner got a longer sentence. So any of those things could apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn any event, the clause is very clear: it is the prison manager who must do that at such point that the prisoner\u2019s sentence, as amended, pushes them into disqualification territory, and for the benefit of all members of the committee of the whole House, can I just record that. I understand the Attorney-General\u2019s advice has now been put on the Table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2b67816276243f5ae93c93808d9025d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2b67816276243f5ae93c93808d9025d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the answer to the question. So when the prison manager advises the Electoral Commission, what action does the Electoral Commissioner have to do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022af919133e62b4439bd512e3a3926ad0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af919133e62b4439bd512e3a3926ad0f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I would have thought it stands to reason that because the change in sentence, in accordance with the clause, results in the prisoner becoming disqualified for registration, then upon advice from the prison manager, the Electoral Commission\u2014assuming this bill passes and the Electoral Commission wins back the power to remove disqualified voters from the roll\u2014then that prisoner will be removed from the roll. That would have been the case last week, but the National Party voted against that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002211e01229269247a38c8f5cf36c9506a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e01229269247a38c8f5cf36c9506a3\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to turn the attention to the issue of prisoners running for Parliament, and I know that was an issue which has been discussed earlier, because it\u2019s a serious issue. It\u2019s an issue, and I\u2019d like to ask around whether\u2014and I guess my question is not so much around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245509d267dd743e7b91512c251ea2d84\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a23a73de9494b538c4bcdc7ede82b74\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I know it\u2019s not in this part, but the question I would like to ask is whether anything in this part precludes prisoners from standing for Parliament and their registration. So it\u2019s an issue which I think is very important, because we\u2019re talking about serious offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c67cb54f41704d938cdc3376d6e8ccb6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not relevant to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179456bdd7734c089d958e01f38a5a45\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m asking the question whether anything in this part precludes a prisoner from being able to stand for Parliament, because I think that\u2019s a question that people would like to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7b2092546744e1968f76366fe1dbe3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it may well be a question that people would like to know, but it isn\u2019t relevant to this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f6d2dae68a74febb89f222a364d7af3\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does anything in this part preclude\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d056d34c6f4373a4e2ab9e88ea02bd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, it isn\u2019t relevant to the bill before the House. It might be a question of interest, but, actually, the Minister is not required to address issues that are not before the House. This bill has a particular purpose, and it doesn\u2019t include that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002208dec438a430482980c0707e19eacf10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208dec438a430482980c0707e19eacf10\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to record, first of all, that I\u2019m grateful for the circulation of the report from the Crown Law Office in relation to the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. The good news is that I have that in my hand; the bad news is that it seems to be a previous version thereof. The more substantive point is that\u2014as the Minister has said, the issues engaged are the same as the bill that was passed last week, so I don\u2019t intend to be painful on that point. Although, I do just note for the committee that the date of the letter is 14 February 2020. I note that\u2019s St Valentine\u2019s Day, so I hope that I\u2019m not embarrassing myself and the Attorney-General by bringing to the public attention that he\u2019s perhaps deliberately sent me a note along those lines. Either that, or it\u2019s a mere issue of photocopying that the wrong one\u2019s gone through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut, in any case, I think the Minister makes a fair point that, indeed, the issues were canvassed in this document. Alternatively, of course, someone is very prescient, knowing that all this time later there would be an error such as we witnessed last week, such that this would be required. But in any case, obviously it\u2019s essentially the same report, so I don\u2019t intend to engage further on that. I would just note, however, moving to one further point in relation to Part 1, I wonder if the Minister would confirm whether the enrolment information to go to the Electoral Commission would affect the position, with regards to prisoners under three years of incarceration voting in DHB elections and alcohol licensing trust elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002203a6d0d75896409b9a4ac63d498a9c43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203a6d0d75896409b9a4ac63d498a9c43\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, as I understand it, it will apply to local body elections, such for DHBs and councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002225a8e26556b649a583f55848cf32ec39\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022506119475d2e44a880e1cf085377a21e\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendment relating to the removal of names from the roll\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002271a570217a664d7f99765b3ea16dab39\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d8f0fc75c6f44f3898ca413381b5cea\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb2b1df83ff940e0bfd680a67d23c738\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb2b1df83ff940e0bfd680a67d23c738\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to propose that this bill should be amended in its title, because I think the title does not accurately reflect, actually, what Parliament is doing here today. The proposed title is that this bill is the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). The \u201CNo 2\u201D is something which I think does not accurately reflect the process which this Parliament has gone through to get to that stage, and I think something along the lines of \u201Cshambolic process\u201D or something which represents the shambles which this Parliament has gone through to get here would be a far more reflective title than simply just saying this is the second bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe reason there\u2019s a second bill is not just that the Government wants to give prisoners the right to vote twice. It\u2019s not like last week they wanted to give them the right, and now they want to just reaffirm that right. It\u2019s because they came to Parliament last week and they had the Green Party bring a Supplementary Order Paper to this House. There was a shambles on the floor of this House between different parties in this coalition\u2014well, the Greens aren\u2019t in the coalition\u2014and they couldn\u2019t agree, and they rushed the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill through under urgency. They didn\u2019t give them themselves enough time to consider what the effect of that Supplementary Order Paper would be. They didn\u2019t give themselves enough time to even have one day between\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e633536e3749dd837706082b5b8dbc\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: They blew it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acd55d8a2b89445c9f4f6186e872931f\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: They blew it. They didn\u2019t even have one day between the committee of the whole House and the third reading, which is the standard procedure which is required under the Standing Orders. They simply rushed it through under urgency. They didn\u2019t take up the opportunity to send it back to committee to be able to fix up the errors of the coalition Government\u2019s ways, and they simply continued to ram the bill through Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo the reason why we\u2019ve got a \u201CNo 2\u201D is the shambles of a process by which this Government has pushed this issue through all the way. Right from day one, when the first reading of the first bill, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, was put to Parliament, they put it through in extended hours. They then rushed the submissions through under urgency through COVID-19, while the country was in lockdown. They then put the second reading through under extended hours. They then put the third reading and the committee stage through under urgency. This bill should be titled with something that represents the rushed process and the flawed process that this bill has gone through, and it should be a reminder to the Government as to why they should not be passing electoral law in such a rushed fashion and without having some bipartisan support in putting pieces of legislation through which are to do with our electoral law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to remind the Green Party of the principled stance they used to have in relation to urgency. It\u2019s no longer the case that they do have it. And so the Minister should be seriously considering amending that title, removing \u201CNo 2\u201D, and actually replacing it with something which more accurately reflects the shambolic process this bill has gone through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc70f6769bc34c4c8e531261d6f1277e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc70f6769bc34c4c8e531261d6f1277e\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wonder if the Minister of Justice would care to comment on the alternative possibility that the Act be named \u201CElectoral (Registration of Some Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill\u201D, as opposed to \u201C(Registration of Sentenced Prisoners)\u201D, to reflect the reality that, in fact, it will not be all, but some, sentenced prisoners who will be able to vote as a result of this, in conjunction with the previous legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022719793dd1c1041e1a725f03baf57d022\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022719793dd1c1041e1a725f03baf57d022\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I follow the rule of statutory interpretation that says that the general entails the particular but not necessarily vice versa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022f74a239b318f4690af83068e5b648714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f74a239b318f4690af83068e5b648714\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister for that answer, and just seek his guidance on the commencement date. I wonder if he would agree that the Act should come into force somewhat later than the day after Royal assent, given the turbulent passage of related items of legislation, such that the official website, legislation.govt.nz, the last time that I had a chance to check it, hadn\u2019t been able to update and therefore correctly reflect the current law following last week\u2019s changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcd43d6d876a4f7183550d6d8f734584\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcd43d6d876a4f7183550d6d8f734584\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s necessary. This Government has invested heavily in new valves for the website that carries the legislation, so they\u2019re very fast and efficient. They\u2019ll warm up very quickly and they\u2019re able to convey the information instantaneously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) without amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8061a105a2d4703b320a767f7d7b16c\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002270cb532d0b1d4b61ba3617ca0b8b774f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270cb532d0b1d4b61ba3617ca0b8b774f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very thankful to the efforts of the House to give consideration to this bill in all its stages, but particularly in the committee stage. I have to say I thought the committee stage for the second bill was a little more instructive than the first, actually. I thought there were some good questions posed, and I think the right questions were posed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWe all know the background to this bill, we all know why it is here, and if we\u2019re honest with ourselves, we can all share a little bit of responsibility for what happened, but that is everybody in this House: the Green Party, for putting up a Supplementary Order Paper that they sort of lost a bit of control of, and perhaps the members on this side of the House might have acted a little more quickly to prevent that from happening, but members opposite must take some responsibility. You do not turn up to the House on a matter as important as our electoral laws, play ducks and drakes, and vote like some sort of crazed maniac, because that is not the way we should pay respect to either this House or our electoral laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThis bill does what the previous bill did. That previous bill, of course, was subject to the full scrutiny of the select committee and was the subject of more than 2,500 submissions, the subject of the 78 percent of those submissions supporting it. That is that in this case now, we are ensuring that in relation to prisoners sentenced to more than three years, they are not obliged to receive advice that they can enrol, because, of course, they are disqualified from enrolling, and there will be no obligation on prison managers to collect information from disqualified prisoners. Their obligation will sit in relation to qualified prisoners\u2014that is to say, those sentenced to a sentence of less than three years. Of course, the other thing this bill does is to restore the power of the Electoral Commission to remove from the electoral roll those who are disqualified from voting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat all makes sense. That was a sensible arrangement in the No. 1 bill, and then, because of a crazy pattern of voting exercised last week, that was undermined and changed and removed. We said at the time that we would correct it this week, and because this is a Government that fulfils its promises, we have done exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EUnderlying that, of course, is a very important principle, because this bill supports the No. 1 bill that happened last week. It rounds that out and it completes the law change that we had proposed for the Electoral Commission in relation to prisoners serving sentences of less than three years, and we did that for very good reason, because the 2010 law that this law reverses had been the subject of intense scrutiny by our courts\u2014the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court\u2014and it was also the subject of a very lengthy investigation and inquiry by the Waitangi Tribunal. In each case, they found the 2010 law to be unprincipled, unfair, unjustified, and, ultimately, inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and contrary to the Crown\u2019s obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s how important this is, and that\u2019s why it was disappointing. Regardless of how we all feel about it now, and we\u2019ve all had our fun and all played the games, it was unfortunate that last week, some members thought that issue could be trivialised or should be trivialised in the way that it was. I\u2019m not going to name party names or anything, but it does not reflect well on the House when that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just invite members opposite, now that we\u2019ve got to this point, to accept, even though they\u2019ve disagreed with the fundamental policy\u2014they must do, because their party voted for the 2010 law change. But that law change has been subject to considerable scrutiny, and this Government would not be doing its job\u2014and, indeed, if they were still in Government, they would not be doing their job\u2014in the face of that overwhelming judicial consideration and inquiry consideration by the Waitangi Tribunal if it did not at least consider reversing the law change that it promoted in 2010. Well, that has happened. We\u2019ve discharged our obligations as responsible parliamentarians, we\u2019ve discharged our obligations as a responsible Government, we have respected the relationship of comity between the judiciary and this House, and we have come up with this law change and it has been supported, and whatever kinds of games might have been played in the committee stage last week, the reality now is we have a substantial law change, a coherent law change, and a principled law change that many New Zealanders respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EJust responding to some of the things that came up in the course of the debate, I know members opposite are very good at talking about \u201CWell, what about the victims in this?\u201D Let\u2019s understand what victims need in a criminal justice system. What they need to know is that when they are caused harm, we have a police force\u2014the front line of our criminal justice system\u2014that is equipped and there and staffed to do the job of detecting those who cause harm. We made that change\u2014this Government has made that change. What they also want to know is that they are supported through the system. A system that is alien to anybody is explained, and they are supported through it, and we have very strong commitments to follow through on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EBut in the end, this bill meets, I think, a very principled objective, which is restoring a democratic right to people. For those who are going to be released into the community between one election and the next, it gives them the right to have that say on who is going to lead that community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EFor those who are fearful that it will lead to prisoners standing for Parliament, that is precluded by other parts of the Electoral Act. You cannot stand for Parliament if you are a serving prisoner. The irony is, of course, that if you\u2019re a remand prisoner, you actually do retain rights. You retain the right to vote, and that\u2019s nearly 40 percent of the prison population. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn any event, this bill deals with that very principled position. For those serving less than three years, who will be out between one election and the next, then they must have right to have a say. That is a celebration of democracy, that is a celebration of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and the provision in that Act that upholds the right to vote, and it is a celebration of our New Zealandness as we have come to terms with a more just system and a better system for all. That\u2019s what this bill does. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc8b573408434fa5a12ed7acb232cb80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc8b573408434fa5a12ed7acb232cb80\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Helensville):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, we\u2019ve all learnt something today. In fact, we\u2019ve learnt a number of things. I\u2019ll call them \u201Clessons\u201D rather than \u201Clearnings\u201D because, of course, \u201Clearnings\u201D is not a word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think, first of all, it\u2019s instructive that the bill that was passed last week by this House was not called No. 1, but this one is called No. 2, in the same way that when the First World War broke out, it was not called the First World War; it was called the war to end all wars. And, of course, it only became meaningful as the First World War or World War I when there was, of course, a Second World War or World War II.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, anyway, I\u2019d guess that\u2019s as good a clue as any, apart from common sense also being our guide, as ever, in such things, that the Government had not anticipated that we would be here doing this all over again, and, of course, neither did most of the rest of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOne of the lessons that we\u2019ve learnt is that the Government now understands clearly, in front of the whole nation, the difference between principle and politics as within its own ranks. We\u2019ve had the Greens on one side arguing on a principled basis that all prisoners should be allowed to vote, and New Zealand First members and Labour saying that it should be more appropriately the case that prisoners who are incarcerated up to three years should be allowed to vote, and that\u2019s fair enough. The result of the coalition discussions and negotiations must have been that they would retain those respective positions but ultimately vote in favour of the bill\u2014fine. That\u2019s coalition Government, that\u2019s MMP, you know, for better or worse in this particular case and, indeed, in terms of the arrangements of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut I would say to the Government that we have learnt a lesson today, or rather they have: they can\u2019t have it both ways. They can\u2019t pretend to be principled in this space and making high-flown arguments in favour of all prisoners being able to vote because voting is a human or civil or political right and yet saying on the one hand that human or civil or political rights should apply to some and not all. The thing about being on a high horse is that, of course, you can fall off, and the higher the horse, the harder the fall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s one of the lessons, and another is about the perils of legislating under urgency. There\u2019s urgency and there\u2019s urgency, of course, but the form that sees a piece of legislation subject to the committee of the whole House stage, where Government parties are putting up Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) that are not supported by other Government papers, immediately to be followed by a third reading, is simply asking for trouble. So that\u2019s another lesson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EYet another lesson is the question of logical consistency. So the substantive issue that underlies the difficulties that the Parliament has had with regard to this bill and its predecessor was the distinction between a three-year threshold, a cut-off, for prisoners being able to vote and not. I have argued in previous stages that it was inevitable, because of this logical inconsistency between the Government parties, therefore, that one of them would put up an SOP that would be resisted by the others, with the result that we have seen so far. In response\u2014I would say refuting, but at least in response\u2014to the point made by the Minister Andrew Little that the National Party has, in his view, been inconsistent in supporting one of those parts of the Green Supplementary Order Paper and not the other, I would say that it\u2019s been consistent with our position throughout in relation to the underlying legislation that we oppose it, and that we will do nothing to assist its passage through the House because we do not believe in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAnd that leads me to another point that I\u2019ve made, which I\u2019ll somewhat\u2014well, I\u2019ll call it a lesson. I was just starting to sound a little bit magisterial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe4cb59f54d1401587e188c6ea114953\u0022\u003EHon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E: Truncate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229994c9cbb464454ca7b386bc65606356\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Truncate. Now there\u2019s an interesting word that Hon Clare Curran is well advised to dispense by way of advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWell, I was going to say, actually, that one of the lessons was that an Opposition doesn\u2019t have many tools available at its disposal, and it can only creep through doors that have been left ajar by a careless Government, and one of those we saw last week. Who can blame an Opposition for wanting to have a rare opportunity to set the agenda, to execute its own ideas in a way that isn\u2019t normally afforded to Her Majesty\u2019s loyal Opposition. Again, as I said earlier, rightly so, the Government has won the Treasury benches. It has the right to control the affairs of the nation to the extent, of course, that it lets itself down and allows the Opposition to do so instead, essentially. So it\u2019s not often that we have a majority of the House on this side of the House. But every now and then, with our dear friends of the Green Party, we are able to effect real change for a very short space of time, which is funny, really, because that\u2019s normally the way the Greens operate in general as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo, turning to some of our other lessons, the difference between rhetoric and reality\u2014that\u2019s been an interesting matter to have been exposed. I refer, again, to the underlying point that the bill touches on with regard to prisoners who are incarcerated for less than three years having certain rights, and those who are not, not getting such rights. That\u2019s really interesting when it comes to the fundamental justification for this legislative reform taken as a whole, which is that the Government has said that it wants to be consistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. As Attorney-General Finlayson, bless his heart, and various senior courts have ruled, it is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act to have a piece of legislation on the statute book that says that prisoners can\u2019t vote. Yet they\u2019ve done half the job, as usual\u2014although if I say half the job, that\u2019s probably pretty generous when it comes to other policy failures to deliver, but anyway, we won\u2019t get into those. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EBut if we\u2019re talking about consistency as well, and again that gap between rhetoric and reality, it\u2019s worth noting again that the very valid points that have been made in relation to breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, in relation to the disproportionate effect on M\u0101ori of the criminal justice system, I\u2019ve argued that that an appropriate place to address that is in earlier stages, essentially, of the criminal justice system, and, actually, of course, before that, in terms of the causes of crime. But if the Government\u2019s view is that there is a disproportionate effect that can be fixed by the issue of prisoner voting, then they should take that seriously and acknowledge that, actually, the right legislative response was that proposed by the Green Party in its SOP, which they did not support, and that would be to allow all prisoners to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, the opprobrium that has been placed upon us for having the temerity to support some of the Greens\u2019 SOP and not others is rather interesting in the context of the other Government parties not supporting it at all. So I think that\u2019s the more fundamental issue to be discussed in the Beehive and Bowen House, when they are, no doubt, reflecting upon the lessons that have been learnt over the last 24 hours, and, actually, I suppose, going back to last week and that fateful night when we discovered a difficulty that had arisen in the proceedings of the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EA couple more lessons in my remaining time. One is that a Government that manages its legislative programmes such that it doesn\u2019t introduce electoral law in an election year is one that is acting more wisely than the current one. Others on this side of the House, most notably Hon Dr Nick Smith, have made points about the desirable nature of bipartisanship in relation to electoral law, and he\u2019s sort of making it from a constitutional point of view\u2014almost, perhaps, a moral point of view or historical point of view. But my perspective is actually slightly different, which is that I\u2019d emphasise that it\u2019s asking for trouble, really just from a pragmatic point of view, a practical point of view, to be having somewhat last minute, and in the context of a three-year term, election year\u2014and, gosh, we\u2019re within the regulated period at the moment; that really is last minute, to be putting things through such as this, even without what Blackadder would have described as a \u201Ccock-up\u201D. So we can see how that, sort of, relates really into other issues as well, other lessons, again, which is essentially about understanding what it means to negotiate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo the Government parties have realised that in order to negotiate, they need to understand what will keep their coalition members happy if they are to get across the line. The alternative view is that they had negotiated and the agreed position was that the Greens would put up something that they knew that the other parties wouldn\u2019t support and knew very well wouldn\u2019t pass, which is, I suppose, firmly in the realm of virtue signalling more so than virtue itself. That\u2019s, I suppose, troubling enough, except that we\u2019re in an election campaign, effectively, now, certainly that period, and so it is that, you know, again, that\u2019s to be expected. It\u2019s something that this side of the House expects from Government parties\u2014fair enough; good luck to them\u2014and we respond accordingly. But they should not pretend that they\u2019re not doing the same when they put up amendments that will not be supported by their side of the House that highlight the logical inconsistency. The logical inconsistencies, as far as I can go there\u2014he said, checking himself in the last 10 seconds to not say a bad word in parliamentary terms, having already said \u201Ccock-up\u201D, which is pretty bad. And so for all these reasons\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f637661732b64a9384df5ce1a849eaa5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, last time you put it in parenthesis, which it still is unparliamentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223030b8dceae643a99dea213a77750ec8\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s still unparliamentary, Madam Speaker. Well, in that case I\u2019d better stop by saying we remain opposed to this bill and, indeed, this legislative reform in total.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022 data-id=\u00222807419603ce41babbf890710cdc99ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222aa0b524-c38d-45aa-bd5b-99c5927085f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222807419603ce41babbf890710cdc99ea\u0022\u003EHon CLARE CURRAN (Labour\u2014Dunedin South):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. With respect to my learned colleague across the House Chris Penk, who is, in all respects, a rather gentlemanly chap\u2014considered chap\u2014this is what we would describe as a \u201Cfix-it\u201D bill, which fixes an issue created by the National Party playing petty politics during the committee stage of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill last week, after the National Party took us all down the rabbit hole of being opposition for opposition\u2019s sake. I would like to commend the Minister of Justice, Andrew Little, for doing what he said he would do, which is to act quickly and fix it, to restore the democratic right to people in prison who have been sentenced to less than three years to be able to enrol and vote. It\u2019s now being sorted. Thanks. I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00221e4ed98ceab846ec8007300fef963262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e4ed98ceab846ec8007300fef963262\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on this bill. I just want to start my comments by just reflecting a little bit on the Minister of Justice\u2019s attitude that he\u2019s taken to this bill through the Parliament. I must say that I have found some of the comments that he has made to be quite offensive. He\u2019s called the Opposition to have some sort of crazed mania. He\u2019s called us deranged. He said that we have a crazy pattern of voting. There seems to be a pattern of words that he uses which I actually find quite offensive, and wording which I think he should reflect on when talking about members of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the National Party and the Government have a different view on this issue\u2014everyone knows that. The National Party comes from a principled perspective that we do not support prisoners, sentenced to jail, having the right to vote. The Government\u2014and they have a range of perspectives\u2014do think that some prisoners, if not all prisoners, should have the right to vote. That\u2019s the compromised position of the Government, which is that prisoners serving less than three years should be able to vote and those serving more than three years shouldn\u2019t\u2014that\u2019s the compromised position. Let\u2019s just be honest about it: it\u2019s a compromised position. That\u2019s what the Government parties have come to. It\u2019s not principled, as the Minister of Justice tries to tell the Parliament\u2014it\u2019s not a principled position to stand up here and say that this is a human rights issue if you\u2019re not going to afford the rights to all prisoners to vote. We on this side of the House come from a very clear perspective that those who do the crime should do the time. That\u2019s the perspective that we\u2019ve approached this issue with all the way through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI just want to allude to some of the comments that my very learned colleague Chris Penk raised in relation to what happened last week in this Parliament in relation to the Supplementary Order Paper of the Green Party. Clare Curran said, \u201CWell, this is a fix-it bill fixing up the issues put to us by the National Party.\u201D, and trying to lay blame. It\u2019s not our job to run the show. It\u2019s not our job to run this place. It\u2019s not our job to make things go nicely and smoothly for the Government. It\u2019s not our job to make your job easier; it\u2019s our job to hold the Government to account. When the Green Party rocks up to this House with a Supplementary Order Paper which, essentially, basically, pulls apart the legislation and the intent that the Government\u2019s trying to bring to this Parliament, there\u2019s an opportunity there to point out the inconsistency of the Government\u2019s position and the inconsistency and the unprincipled position that this Government comes to this issue with, and that\u2019s exactly what the National Party has done, and now the Government is having to come with their tail between their legs and spend all of Tuesday afternoon trying to fix up their own mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI ask the question: was this Government acting irresponsibly last Tuesday when they brought a bill to Parliament and they put it through under urgency, through the committee of the whole House, through the third reading, and then continued to support it, knowing that it potentially was flawed? Was that irresponsible or did they do that not fully understanding what they were doing? If they did\u2014if they weren\u2019t fully aware because of their rushed process and the urgency and the moving of time and it happening very quickly\u2014then were they acting incompetently and irresponsibly? They have to reflect on that question, because there are many examples that I could point to of incompetence and irresponsible actions by this Government which they have taken. But I would let them reflect on those themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill, essentially, has a few small aspects to try and, basically, ensure that none of the Green Party\u2019s Supplementary Order Paper actually makes it into law. So, essentially, the Green Party has come to Parliament tonight and they\u2019re voting to ensure that none of their Supplementary Order Paper from last week makes it into law. They have agreed to a process to ensure that their changes which they put forward, their diligent, principled Supplementary Order Paper which they put forward to say that all prisoners should have the right to vote\u2014they\u2019ve come to Parliament today to, essentially, give in and say \u201CWe are going to be happy with not one part of our Supplementary Order Paper coming into law.\u201D That\u2019s just another example of how the Green Party is having to give up\u2014again\u2014something else. They haven\u2019t got their light rail, they haven\u2019t got anything else, and now they\u2019re not even getting anything through under this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI wonder what the deal was that the Minister spoke about in his speech, where he said that there was some sort of deal done where a quick conversation was done between the three parties, where they agreed to this process this week. Where\u2019s the transparency around what was agreed by the Green Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228711d5afb50a4a50959c52acb7bbfb76\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They probably got a couple of eels; they\u2019re slimy enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9962fd9bd940fc8db3b03a638e91b2\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe a couple of eels, as David Bennett says. But something was agreed. I\u2019d like the Green Party to stand up and take a call and give New Zealanders some openness and transparency from the most open and transparent Government that New Zealand has ever seen\u2014well, hopefully, we\u2019ll see that when, you know, the Hon Tracy Martin, she\u2019ll soon be taking a call and explaining what the New Zealand First Party got out of this or what the Green Party might have got, because the reality is that there would have been a deal done to make this be brought to the House this week after what happened in the debacle of last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo, essentially, this bill fixes up a terrible mistake that the Government opened themselves up to, which was that it made Corrections staff have to assist all prisoners to enrol to vote regardless of how long they\u2019d been sentenced, despite the fact that the same bill they passed said that only prisoners who had been sentenced to less than three years were actually entitled to be enrolled and entitled to vote. Essentially, the bill that Government members passed was to make Corrections officers act illegally. That went to Royal assent yesterday, as we\u2019ve heard. They passed a piece of legislation to make Corrections officers act illegally. That\u2019s something which I think is completely irresponsible and incompetent. They should apologise to Corrections officers for what they have done to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe last point that I want to make is around the rights of victims. I raised this point in each of my speeches\u2014in this bill and in the previous bill\u2014because there is nothing in this bill about the rights of victims of crime. We all know on this side of the House how crime affects our communities and how devastating it can be. The story that we\u2019re told is that people serving sentences of less than three years are somehow not serving for serious offences; they\u2019re going to be released soon, so we have to give them the right to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI want to remind the House what the Justice Committee heard when considering the previous bill\u2014in noting that, there was no select committee under this bill, so there were no submissions that we can refer to. In a submission that was received, there was evidence provided to the committee which showed that during the 2018/19 year, 1,929 serious violent offenders were sentenced to three years or less for crimes such as manslaughter, sexual assault, abduction, and acts intended to cause injury. What, in this bill, gives any rights to those victims of those crimes? I find that shameful\u2014that we\u2019ve heard this Government talk about the rights of prisoners but do nothing and say nothing about the rights of the victims of those crimes, who are the ones left behind and are the ones who are the elephant in the room from this Government. I find that absolutely shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ELastly, both bills have gone through an absolute shambolic process. We\u2019ve seen the Government use urgency. We\u2019ve seen the Government use extended hours. We\u2019ve seen the Government use COVID-19 to rush this bill through. Whilst New Zealanders were focused on their lives and their livelihoods and their businesses, the Government\u2019s priority was giving prisoners the vote. I find that absolutely shameful. They\u2019ve had three years to do this\u2014three years to do this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510d289857e34d98b85943935a4b4545\u0022\u003ESimon O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Three long years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614bb001182e45c987d469bb3c43cda8\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but they used\u2014three long years to do this\u2014the last few months before the election to rush this through. I think that\u2019s incredibly cynical. I proudly stand opposed to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022 data-id=\u00226071c1edbf5046578f6028a6c72db68f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226071c1edbf5046578f6028a6c72db68f\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. So just in light of the member who resumed his seat, just to the first part of his speech when he talked about how hurt he was, how sad he was around some of the things that the Hon Andrew Little had said, I am reminded of Woody from Toy Story: if the boot fits. Go back and have a look, ladies and gentlemen, at what was the contribution from that member at the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EThat member also suggested that I would tell you the truth. That member also suggested that I would stand up and give you some form of transparency, so I will do that. Last week, the Green Party made a mistake. Last week, the Green Party made a mistake. They made a mistake because they believed that the National Party would not play politics with something so important\u2014so important\u2014as the law. That\u2019s what the truth is, New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand First did not know that the Green Party was going to put down a Supplementary Order Paper. We did not know that. The Green Party is an independent party in its own right. They\u2019re not the coalition partner, by the way, and I\u2019m not surprised that the National Party doesn\u2019t understand the difference between coalition partners and supply and confidence partners, because they haven\u2019t got any mates, so they actually don\u2019t need to consider any one of those variations. But the Green Party is a supply and confidence partner who gives confidence on Budget issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party\u2014and perhaps the National Party members would like to go away and have a look at the many nuances that the MMP Government can be made up by. The Green Party has every right to come into this House and put a Supplementary Order Paper on the Table. Why would they have thought that the National Party was so devoid of respect for not only the law but for this House that they would play games with such a thing? Why would the Green Party have thought that? So yes, the Green Party made a mistake: they gave the National Party more credit than they should have ever given them, and that is what happened last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EMr Brown suggests that there are deals done behind closed doors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022658807f746654fb089b8b1b932ab40f4\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They are. Fish\u2014how many fish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13ace8edae54eafa320c76e83806090\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014between the parties in this coalition Government. Now, I\u2019m not surprised that the National Party\u2014and that\u2019s Mr Bennett shouting out there, for the ladies and gentlemen at home. I\u2019m not surprised that the National Party thinks that, because that is the way they operate. You project on to others what you yourself are prepared to do. I understand that. We only need to talk to David Seymour and Peter Dunne and the M\u0101ori Party to know how shafted they were at times by people that they were supposedly in an agreement with. But one of the things that this MMP Government is proud of is, yes, we disagree on certain things, but, like grown-ups, we sit down and we work it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just come from Bill Birch\u2019s book launch in the Grand Hall. I\u2019ve just come from there, where Todd Muller and Jim Bolger stood up and talked about that one of the major assets of Bill Birch was his ability to understand compromise, was his ability to understand that you can\u2019t come into this place and bang your fist on a table and stomp your feet [Simon O\u2019Connor bangs fists on table] No, Mr O\u2019Connor, you cannot. One of the things that the old National Party knew about was honour and compromise and working with others. Some of those young backbenchers over there need to go and sit down quietly and listen to the Hon Jim Bolger and listen to the Hon Bill Birch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddea2db2cb76489e9d8fcef4f01f1089\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: And how did that go when he went into coalition with you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec7217bcdea444db794820243b7db88\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be flippant, Mr Brown. You should listen to your elders, because they knew how to make sure that they were effective, and they were respectful of the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271095f305e9e4584bd127d20dd3a492f\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: When are you going to talk about the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229126fe7ee56c41f2931853bfadd3c098\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: They didn\u2019t play games with the law. Mr King, please be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b0f17e92f641c5bacd3b118b591975\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: Four minutes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284002ba5373845dc88006d8f6cf7674d\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: They didn\u2019t play games with the law. This bill is fixing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea48ef599911472d827a98de607e4144\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr King, when you get to be the Speaker, you can do that. Until then, please don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286bf05044aff4bc69b1fec970c61a52b\u0022\u003EHon TRACEY MARTIN\u003C/span\u003E: So this bill is a bill to fix what was a mistake by the Green Party in believing that the National Party wouldn\u2019t play games. So ladies and gentlemen, when you\u2019re heading to the polls on 19 September, just remember who decides to play games with your laws and this House, which costs you tens of thousands of dollars every time we sit here, for the National Party to decide to score points. We support the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u00221728533d94844f0596d299c3cf617845\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221728533d94844f0596d299c3cf617845\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E What a terrible contribution that last one was. I can\u2019t actually believe that speaker, Tracey Martin. She wouldn\u2019t actually acknowledge and look at anybody across this room, because she knew it was a barefaced lie, everything she was saying in her speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534817b517554e80951088082c2f4ff9\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2eca22212024b279c2277a1cbec7343\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220580393e1dea49869ba0944ea91d2ade\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll withdraw and apologise. But it certainly wasn\u2019t telling the truth, anyway. And\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b46f64633d248959562b13a97406def\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The member will resume his seat. If he wants to continue with the remaining time of his 10-minute contribution, he will not only not repeat an offence but also be so directly offensive to the Chair. Withdraw and apologise, please, and don\u2019t repeat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f1853233a7440f58f6d4370b8d7151b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Madam Speaker. But that party over there spent the whole five minutes in their speech, didn\u2019t once mention the bill, didn\u2019t talk about the bill at all, and it just was a verbal attack, trying to present themselves as some virtuous party that is holier than thou, when their whole party is based on deals and shams and all those things that have littered the history of that party for the time that it\u2019s been in Parliament. Its leadership has been part of all those high-profile events that have been in the public arena, been in media, for years and years, and even today it\u2019s in the media again around fishing and where the cameras are on boats. So to have that member then come into this House and try and present that they are some holier than thou party that actually tried to put a spin on what had actually happened, when they are the party that is the party of shammy deals, that has a history of abuse of the process of Parliament, an abuse of the process of legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022530ce0c4-c977-40cb-90fb-754f54931ff1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd5cddb3ff84702b5a99d5f7bf2d1e8\u0022\u003EHon Tracey Martin\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Sorry, Madam Speaker. I just seek your guidance. I\u2019m not clear on where the point is\u2014where the line is that a member crosses with regard to making accusations about other members or other parties. Can you give me some clarity there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222138a2abb3e242b1bced7846143ce05e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I think there\u2019s plenty of guidance in Speakers\u2019 rulings and the Standing Orders, and if you feel that he did breach any of those you could raise that. I wasn\u2019t aware that he had. We\u2019ve all got different levels of sensitivities on different issues, and some members can be offended when others aren\u2019t. But if you think there was a Standing Order or a Speaker\u2019s ruling breached, I\u2019d certainly be keen to hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab7fcb362e14705a27a0c415772e86f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We heard some great lines from that last speaker\u2014\u201Cthe truth\u201D, from New Zealand First. Isn\u2019t that ironical to have somebody from New Zealand First talk about truth, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9429247a2d44767ac69251c586794b9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Bennett. That\u2019s the third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b076e6ce2b72436f951cbff8b90efd96\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I was just quoting what she said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ced24692f474e84b9df8362579b89cd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the third time. [Interruption] Mr Bennett will resume his seat. I asked you twice. It\u2019s now the third time. You\u2019re breaching the protocol of this House and I\u2019m of the view that you know you are, because you\u2019re a senior member in your caucus. Please don\u2019t do it again. Withdraw and apologise for that comment and then resume your speech, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ab5057e81594e47bb4d5a80f105dabf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. But I\u2019m just taking\u2014I wrote down some direct quotes from that last speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288cc28e751af4f8c884d300cee0366cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t push it, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c591e1da6ff3402d804c5bf581e72dad\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: One was \u201Crespect for law\u201D\u2014you know, that was another direct quote we had from the New Zealand First Party. I found that deeply ironical as well. \u201CThe Green Party simply made a mistake.\u201D Those were the comments made from\u2014and \u201CGrown-ups sit down and work it out.\u201D Well, that\u2019s not the history of the New Zealand First Party, is it? You know, how many times has the New Zealand First Party acted like grown-ups that sit down and work something out? Never. They always throw their toys out. That\u2019s the nature of their party. They come to the last six months of a coalition\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225130b6934e1549df983e5602491a41f6\u0022\u003EHon Poto Williams\u003C/span\u003E: How is this relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281cb2499d1a441e3afc106bce6a81699\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m just rebutting the previous speaker\u2019s speech. They do that every time. I\u2019ve never seen that party act as grown-ups and sit down and work it out. I\u2019d love for the member to give us examples of where they have done that, because it just doesn\u2019t happen. Every six months before an election, they start throwing their toys out. That\u2019s how they work. That\u2019s the New Zealand First Party and that\u2019s the modus operandi of that party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo to have them come into this Parliament and say how great they are is so rich\u2014so, so rich. The reality is what has happened here. It is that the New Zealand First Party and the Labour party made a mistake. They were backing their Green mates and thought, well, this deal would be done and there\u2019d be that amendment to the bill, and then we\u2019d all be good and it\u2019d be all hunky dory\u2014and that\u2019s not a reference to fishing, for the New Zealand First members, if they\u2019re that sensitive about fish issues today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe Green Party were silly enough to actually put two amendments up and didn\u2019t realise the implications of their second amendment. There were smarter members in this House, and we\u2019ve heard from some of our members that spoke on that very day, that took advantage of that opportunity. It\u2019s not our role to actually make the Government\u2019s life easier, as Simeon Brown said. Our role is to hold them to account and our role is to show the failings of the Government. There are definite failings there, because the Green Party in all their majesty thought they were doing something wonderful, and the New Zealand First Party and the Labour Party were simply asleep, and their whips just sat there and let it happen and didn\u2019t really realise what was happening until it was too late. That\u2019s the reality of what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ENow we spend a whole day in Parliament doing this again, and then we get sanctimonious speeches from the New Zealand First Party about how wonderful they are and how they represent these values and these beliefs that nobody\u2014nobody\u2014in the public would associate with that party. There\u2019s no way that anybody puts that party in the same word as \u201Ctrust\u201D or \u201Cgrown-ups that sit around and work something out\u201D. That\u2019s just not how people think of the New Zealand First Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EI get great pleasure from seeing the failings of the New Zealand First Party and how their voters are now moving en masse to the ACT Party, because they should not be in Parliament. The New Zealand First Party are a leech on the political system in New Zealand. They always have been, and it will be a good day\u2019s work if they are removed from this Parliament. I think that that\u2019s something that will happen, because we\u2019ve got the greatest candidate in Northland that will win that seat, and Jones can go around flirting all the money he likes\u2014nobody\u2019s going to vote for him. He\u2019s seen as arrogant. They don\u2019t like him, so there\u2019s no way the New Zealand First Party will get back in. That is a great day for New Zealand politics and a great day for New Zealand, because they don\u2019t add anything to this place. They never have and they never will, and that\u2019s just the simple reality of it. It will be good to see their failings being exposed and that those people there in their party that aren\u2019t there for the best interests of New Zealand but only for their own interests are removed from this Parliament. It\u2019s going to be a great day when we see that happen on 20 September.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002205e1a28771bb4f80892e71442f9e2bfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205e1a28771bb4f80892e71442f9e2bfd\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got some news for the National Party: nobody cares. Nobody cares about their silly little procedural trick last week. Nobody cares that the House has had to come back today to put the bill to rights. Nobody cares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EThere is one useful thing that members and parties and this House can do across their multiplicity of beliefs, and that is to come to this House and to vote for the things that they believe in. And, in respect of this bill, every single party across this House, the New Zealand First Party, the Labour Party, the Green Party, the ACT Party, have at all stages voted for what they believe in in respect of this bill. There is one party that is an exception to that, who thought it was more important to try and play a game, to try and play a trick that, ultimately, will have no meaningful outcome and that absolutely no voter out there will care about this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo I stand proudly as a member of a party that\u2019s voted for what we believe in with this bill and will do so again tonight, and I\u2019d urge members on the other side of the House to reflect upon whether it was really all worth it given that nobody cares.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022e48d38e5df9b496f8045b13e2a7db40c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e48d38e5df9b496f8045b13e2a7db40c\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot help but comment on the \u201Cnobody cares\u201D statement. I know that there are a whole bunch of people out there who are listening and watching\u2014maybe now or maybe later\u2014who care about what is happening with the law of New Zealand. Right now, in this Parliament, we are debating on the second round the same concept that we know, on this side of the House, many members of the public oppose\u2014that is, essentially, that giving back, the reinstating of, the right to vote for prisoners who are imprisoned with sentences having to be served for less than three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not easy to be imprisoned in New Zealand. Members of the police force will tell us that. The members of the public know that it\u2019s not easy to be put in prison. It\u2019s not taken lightly by the system nor the public. Once a person goes through the process of disavowing or breaking the social contract that he has with other persons or with the State, that person will go through a process, and part of the results of that breaking away from the social contract of behaving in accordance with law will have consequences. The consequence of imprisonment does come with a loss of civil liberties, which include the right to vote. This is not unique to New Zealand. This is shared by other countries around the world where prisoners who are convicted of crimes and are in prison are relieved of that right to vote. So I believe that people out there do care about what is happening now, and what is happening now, essentially, is giving to these prisoners the opportunity to vote while they are still serving their sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EAgain, losing the right to vote is a consequence of serious offending\u2014not petty offending; serious offending. There are people who have committed\u2014the level of imprisonment of up to three years and beyond reflects the severity of the offending that the prisoner has done and has been tried and convicted of doing. These include serious assault, violent robberies, family violence offences, and sexual offences. We all react when we hear about these crimes being committed. We all care that these crimes should not be committed. Imprisonment is a deterrent, and the loss of civil liberties, including that special right to be able to vote and choose the members of Parliament, for example, is something that needs to be taken away as a consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENational was opposed to the original legislation, called the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. That has now been passed into Act by a process of urgency, where the process, the legislative process, has been shortened, truncated, abbreviated. A lot of the process which normally allows for the public to be heard and to provide their position has not occurred. A great part of the earlier process of the original legislation had carried on through lockdown, where very little opportunity to look at it from the outside was ever given to the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ENow, in reinstating a convicted prisoner\u2019s right to vote, we are, essentially, I believe, re-victimising the victims. We acknowledge that we want to give these prisoners the opportunity to have their say\u2014when they themselves, in committing the offence that they have been tried and convicted for, have actually deprived their victims of their say in what has been done to them. And by allowing prisoners to vote, I believe that every victim throughout New Zealand is again put through that process of losing that voice that they may have as victims in seeing the incarceration and the removal of civil liberties for every prisoner that is in prison for certain crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe current bill seeks to amend, through clauses 5 and 6, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Act\u2014so bill No. 1. Clause 5 and 6 pertain to the requirement for Corrections officers to assist prisoners in prison and assist them to get enrolled to vote if they are serving sentences of less than three years. For many, this reinstatement of their right to vote will be and can be exercised in the coming elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI think, when this is mentioned, and considering the serious economic situation that New Zealand finds itself in, and considering that we are undergoing this process of urgency, where we have been here all afternoon, into this night, debating another bill\u2014another bill\u2014that deals with the same reinstatement of rights, I just feel and believe that it is a wasted opportunity. We could very well be in urgency considering a bill that could be addressing assistance to businesses or possibly something that could improve the economy of New Zealand, which is now in grave danger. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EI come to clause 6, where prisoners who are sentenced to three years or more imprisonment will be asked if they would like to be enrolled and they will be helped to enrol and they will be asked if they will agree to their enrolment details to be furnished to the Electoral Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EOnce a sentence has been served and a prisoner has done his time, then, essentially, as he is released, then that deprivation of civil liberties rightfully is given back to him. This makes absolute sense, and, on this part, I believe National supports that reinstatement and that re-enrolment at that point of release. But that is not the same to say for prisoners who continue to be incarcerated and who continue to be serving the sentences that they have been tried and convicted of and which they wouldn\u2019t have been convicted of if they had not broken that social contract with the State and other persons. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8d454ecd89b4051a583bb97ae5ea85c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8d454ecd89b4051a583bb97ae5ea85c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The following call\u2019s a split call\u2014Gareth Hughes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d134c8610ab845c19bbffb6756fa0f11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d134c8610ab845c19bbffb6756fa0f11\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I want to direct my comments to the previous speaker, David Bennett, because in my career of more than a decade, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve heard a more embarrassing and frankly egregious contribution. He got up, and within his first words were insults, were making things up\u2014absolutely egregious. Here we are, and the last member, which was more of a measured, actually slightly substantive, contribution, said, \u201CWell, why aren\u2019t we here debating how we can improve people\u2019s lives?\u201D The answer, of course, is: we are not here debating the very many things we need to do because that party decided to become legislative saboteurs and waste Parliament\u2019s time. We\u2019re here literally cleaning up a mess that they decided to play politics with something as fundamental as electoral law to try\u2014and I don\u2019t know what they were trying: to prove a point that they were all the clever kids who would try and stymie progress? Because, frankly, it\u2019s an embarrassment. Here we are, trying to fix a mess that they caused because they would rather play games.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EAround this Chamber are 33 memorials to where Kiwis served to defend our democracy. But instead, National would rather play politics\u2014not just politics, petty politics. It\u2019s, frankly, disgusting. Now, I wish we would actually have a substantive debate around principles and values, because that was sadly lacking, entirely lacking, from those contributions\u2014a party that\u2019s focused on petty politics rather than principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m proud to stand here as someone who is proud that we are removing the prohibition against prisoners serving a sentence of three years or less to be able to exercise their human rights. Look, I would go further than the other parties that we\u2019re forming a Government with, because we have principles and values, and when the Green Party exercises its votes in this House, we do it with integrity. I just wish you could say the same from that party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00220fe7757f227f44ffa3740429eb981718\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fe7757f227f44ffa3740429eb981718\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I cannot believe what I\u2019ve just heard from the member who\u2019s just sat down, Gareth Hughes. Let me ask the member this: whose Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) was it that was passed last week? Was it the Green Party\u2019s SOP? Oh, who was it? It was Golriz Ghahraman\u2019s SOP 518. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ELet me ask a second question. If the member who put the amendment forward to this House didn\u2019t want it passed, why did they put it on the Table in the first place? This is an appalling process. I cannot understand the amount of hours that we\u2019ve lost to fix a stuff-up from this Government to correct an inconsistency that would have been able to give Corrections officers the ability to enrol voters in prison who can\u2019t even have the right to vote. Whose stuff-up was that? It was the Green Party stuff-up, and that is symbolic of the shambles and incompetence of this coalition Government. It is an absolute shambles, this process that we\u2019ve just been discussing today, but also the bill that we\u2019ve been discussing over the last few months has been a shambles from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ELet me come back to something that Michael Wood said, around standing up for what you believe in. Well, on this side of the House, we do stand up for what we believe in. We stand up for: if you do a crime, you do the time. We stand up for victims\u2019 rights, and we stand up for proper democratic process, which we\u2019ve failed to see in this bill and in the one that\u2019s gone before the House in the last few months. Where is the integrity of this Government? In lockdown, when there are far more important priorities, we were discussing giving prisoners the right to vote. Today, we\u2019ve lost 4\u00BD hours of House time to fix a stuff-up from this Labour-led coalition Government. Not only that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226208e316811d4315ae7e5638374cb2b1\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Soft on crime! Soft on crime!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ba0283fb544decbd3b8280500026a9\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That is the member of the North, who\u2019s going to get a harsh reality in the next couple of months of just how few people in the North actually support him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227940e9f2-9cea-43d5-8f16-3b470e34f47f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa92bc5d5624df78296bd7e561c71a0\u0022\u003EMatt King\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s not the member of the North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ac5da45fcd64a6d9efcb0e2779f4957\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s not the member of the North. We\u2019ve got a great member of the North right down here in Matt King. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ELet me come to the content of the bill that we\u2019ve been debating\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225acbc2f37ef544ce953493d42524a3da\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: That would be good, excellent idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234f78060872e42808b2fa1832725492d\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the last few months. The content of the bill we disagree with fundamentally on this side of the House. When you break the law, you have your rights stripped away from you as a punishment for breaking the law, whether it\u2019s your right to freedom of expression, your right to be autonomous and do liberty\u2014you know, go about things on a day-to-day basis\u2014and your right to vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThat is why we have opposed this bill. May I say, we also oppose this bill because we care about victims\u2019 rights. We heard that in the Justice Committee, loud and clear\u2014the number of victims who still are suffering from the consequences of those who have been put away for those crimes. So we acknowledge them, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve voted that bill down, and that is why we\u2019re continuing to vote this bill down in the House tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut I just want to summarise to the House tonight that we have lost 4\u00BD hours fixing a stuff-up from this Government when we could have been\u2014as my colleague Paulo Garcia said, talking about support for small business\u2014talking about how to get people that are out of work back into work. That is what we care about and what we will stand up for on this side of the House. What we will stand up for is priorities from this House and this Government, and this Government has had a shambolic list of priorities. They would rather focus on giving prisoners the right to vote rather than getting our economy back moving. We condemn this bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00221bb81e0d702540649dd7fbe6938d0448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bb81e0d702540649dd7fbe6938d0448\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media):\u003C/span\u003E One of the first things that came out of the National leader\u2019s mouth when he became Opposition leader was that he wasn\u2019t interested in opposition for opposition\u2019s sake. So what is happening here tonight is exactly that. So the question I put is: why aren\u2019t you backing your leader\u2014why aren\u2019t you backing your leader? And if it\u2019s not that, you\u2019re completely out of touch, because this is not an issue that the country cares about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003ESo if you\u2019re going to go back to your offices and think you\u2019ve got a little win tonight, I\u2019d suggest you actually think about what happened in your caucus today and have a bit of reflection about that. Either this caucus isn\u2019t backing its leader or it\u2019s the same tired old party that it was before the leadership change, or a bit of both, and I suspect I\u2019m right on both cases. It\u2019s not the party of English and Key anymore; it\u2019s just a sad old skeleton of what it used to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab4ad1687a394301ad8fd2fb384973b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab4ad1687a394301ad8fd2fb384973b2\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak tonight on the third reading of the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2). But, of course, it feels a bit more like the fifth or sixth time I\u2019ve risen to speak on this piece of legislation, and that is, of course, because we\u2019ve passed very similar legislation in this Parliament in recent weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EI do want to begin by commenting on the committee of the whole House process that has just concluded a short time ago, because I was a little bit surprised that the Green Party did not move an amendment or put forward another Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) similar to the one that\u2019s mentioned in the bill, which is SOP 518 on the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. When we last debated similar legislation to this, last week, that\u2019s exactly what the Greens did. They moved an amendment that would have extended the right to vote to all prisoners rather than just those who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment of less than three years. But there wasn\u2019t one tonight, so that principled position that the Greens hold, which I can understand entirely, that led them to put up that amendment in the first place, is, for now, for some reason, no longer in existence. So what we have instead is a bill that will confirm that only prisoners who are sentenced to a term of imprisonment of three years or less will be able to vote, which the Greens have claimed is against their principles\u2014and yet here they are in Parliament tonight, voting the other way, not to extend voting to all prisoners but to instead revoke or repeal the amendment that was put forward and supported by this Parliament last week in the name of Golriz Ghahraman. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThis bill in its explanatory note purports to remove inconsistencies in the Electoral Act as a result of that legislation that we passed last week, but instead all it does is confirm them. It says that prisoners who are sentenced to 35 months in prison will be able to vote in elections but that those who are sentenced to 37 months\u2014perhaps for the same crime\u2014will not be able to vote. That is an inconsistency that Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick railed against in this Parliament just a few days ago, but this week the Greens are voting to confirm that position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThere are other inconsistencies in this bill which I\u2019d like to touch on. The Minister of Justice has given a number of contributions in this debate, in first, second, and third readings, and a couple during the committee of the whole House stage, and in his explanation for why he supports this bill and why he\u2019s brought this bill to the House, he\u2019s said that his position is that prisoners should be able to vote for the Government and for the Parliament that will represent them when they are released. Again, I can understand that position. It\u2019s a relatively coherent position. But this bill, and the changes that are made in it, and the additional changes that we made last week, don\u2019t do that. They don\u2019t, for example, cater for a prisoner who was sentenced to 10 years who might be due for release next year. That person will not be able to vote in the upcoming election. Nor will they be able to vote in council elections or in district health board elections\u2014for as long as they exist, I suppose, given the other measures that are being proposed by the Government at the moment. So this bill doesn\u2019t cater for those people. It prevents them from voting for the Government, for the Parliament, and for councils and DHBs that will represent them upon release. So it doesn\u2019t fit with Mr Little\u2019s stated goal for this bill at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThat brings me back to where I started, which is a point on process, and the process that we\u2019ve gone through in coming to this bill and to this Parliament and to this vote tonight. The reason we have this bill to begin with, as my colleagues have laid out earlier in the debate, is around a failure of process, and a failure of process by this Government. It\u2019s a failure to align the three parties of Government to have a consistent position. We saw that in full show last week, when the Greens moved an SOP. And now, in this bill, they haven\u2019t learnt their lesson, because this bill, as well, is a failure of process. What they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re doubling down on that poor process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EThe original bill that was brought forward to Parliament, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill, was voted on at first reading and went off and had a select committee process\u2014such as it was through the COVID-19 lockdown period. It was then brought back to Parliament last week, and we voted on the committee stage and third reading under urgency. That wasn\u2019t an ideal process, and that was shown up with the fact that, of course, there was a mistake in the bill, which we\u2019re now tidying up with this legislation. Not content with that poor process, the Government, as I\u2019ve said, are doubling down with this legislation: going through all stages\u2014not just the later stages; going through all stages\u2014without a select committee process, and, unfortunately, with that, with a truncated process, full stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re not able to consider this bill in the same detail. We haven\u2019t had input from the public. We haven\u2019t had input from victims of crime. We haven\u2019t had input from our prisoner advocates, and, indeed, even prisoners themselves. There\u2019s been none of that input into this bill at all. And, of course, the Greens weren\u2019t able to put forward an SOP which aligns with their principles. It would have been useful, I think, if we\u2019d had a select committee process. They could have tabled that SOP alongside the bill to provide additional context to the select committee on what could be voted for\u2014again, aligning with Green Party principles. Yet we haven\u2019t had the opportunity to do that, because of the truncated process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EEqually bad is that this bill is being rushed through all stages in one day. We\u2019ve had no opportunity for public input at all, and now, with a heavily truncated process, we\u2019re pushing this bill through Parliament with less scrutiny than I think electoral law should allow for. Certainly, when it comes to electoral law, Andrew Little has said it\u2019s the fundamental part of our democracy, and yet we\u2019re ramming through all stages in this House a bill that violates that. That\u2019s a shame, because, as Andrew Little pointed out when he was in Opposition, electoral law changes shouldn\u2019t be rushed through in a process like this. It shouldn\u2019t be going through urgency. It certainly shouldn\u2019t be going through urgency in all stages in one day. The Greens themselves have actually said that as well. They consistently in Opposition railed against the use of urgency and said it should be avoided at all costs, and yet here we are. Now that Mr Little and the Greens are both in Government, those ideals seem to have gone out the window, and we see them rushing through electoral law changes\u2014probably amongst the last dozen or so bills that were passed by this Parliament, being rushed through before the election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EIt wasn\u2019t like there weren\u2019t opportunities to fix the bill last week. Of course, Nick Smith, our colleague, moved, during, I think, the third reading, to refer the bill back to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223855d7e56ac540bebba80c5d7719888d\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Did they do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc1c82b3af443caba3a0ac5be92cb39\u0022\u003EANDREW FALLOON\u003C/span\u003E: They absolutely didn\u2019t do that, unfortunately. So there was a perfect opportunity to refer that bill back to select committee, which would have completely removed the need for this legislation to be rushed through all stages in one day. It could have been referred back to select committee and the public input invited, and we could have had a far better process to ensure that those inconsistencies that are identified in this bill don\u2019t come to pass. So I was very disappointed by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ed2de46a-9047-4bfe-92c8-5f14fd415dfb\u0022\u003EWe also had, of course, Mr Little during many speeches seeming to blame the National Party. He seemed to blame all this situation on the National Party and hasn\u2019t taken any of the blame for himself. The closest we got to that, actually, was a New Zealand First MP, essentially, blaming the Greens for it. Well, actually, there\u2019s a huge amount of blame to be put on the Government, particularly Andrew Little, for presiding over a shambolic process, as my colleague Simeon Brown has pointed out. So the process on this bill has been poor. The bill provides more inconsistencies, unfortunately, than it remedies. The Minister has taken every opportunity that he has had to blame the National Party, never accepting any blame for himself, and, unfortunately, launching a disgraceful attack on another member of this House over mental health. We won\u2019t be supporting the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022070fcb8d852d4e0fac40515d72868523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022070fcb8d852d4e0fac40515d72868523\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am really pleased to have the last contribution, to say the last few words on this particular bill, to actually tell the National Party why we are here fixing this bill up, and it has got a lot to do with the families of 51 victims in Christchurch. One of the things we are fixing up is the hole that that party made in there by actually supporting the Supplementary Order Paper which means that the man who shot 51 people in Christchurch now has the right to be advised that he can go on the electoral roll. I for one would spend four days fixing that up. That\u2019s shambolic and shameful, and if you over there want to protect the rights of victims, you will not play games with the electoral law again. I for one commend this bill to the House and condemn them for their shambolic and shameful games that they played last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224a8b50fdc11c4fea9ee5de3f2858a7c2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000794\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb282333f2814226b652cd9ca4ecd29a\u0022\u003EFuel Industry Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244c2b15341ce4856b2e8ccb206c89a5f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u00226bff9e10a0e148d9a3c20400b2f5d5ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bff9e10a0e148d9a3c20400b2f5d5ad\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: I move, That the Fuel Industry Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 21 July 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during oral questions, during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House; and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House; and outside the Wellington area despite Standing Orders 191, 193 and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EOn 5 December 2019, the Commerce Commission released its final report on the retail fuel market study. The commission\u2019s reported indicated that fuel companies have been making persistently higher profits over the past decade than would have been expected in a competitive market, that there is limited competition in wholesale markets, and that this flows through to the retail market, where there is wide variation in retail prices, particularly between different regions. The report confirmed this Government\u2019s concern that consumers are paying higher prices for petrol and diesel than could be expected in a competitive market. The changes this bill will make will address that, and we expect those benefits will flow through to motorists. The Government is introducing changes to the fuel industry to improve competition in the wholesale and retail fuel markets, and cumulatively these measures are designed to promote greater competition for the long-term benefit of end users of engine fuel products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EConsumers should be able to expect prompt action on such a significant area of personal expenditure, and taking such action is still a priority for this Government. Even during lockdown, consumers expressed strong concern about price drops in international fuel markets not flowing through to New Zealand retail fuel prices. We appreciate that there has been significant disruption to the fuel industry as a result of the COVID-19 response. However, as the country recovers, we expect the problems identified by the commission to persist, and we believe that intervention to stimulate competition remains appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe industry was consulted extensively in relation to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s Fuel Market Financial Performance Study and in relation to the commission\u2019s market study, and given that these issues identified by the commission in their market study seem entrenched and have significant impacts on consumers, we consider that it is important to address these issues quickly through this piece of legislation. While I acknowledge that the changes in the bill will not have an immediate impact on the prices faced by consumers, over time greater competition will deliver benefits to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe purpose of the bill is to promote competition in the fuel market for the long-term benefit of end users of fuel products. The measures in the bill will increase the ability and incentive for dealers and distributors to make switches more frequently, to increase competition between wages and other importers, and make entry easier at the wholesale level, and support the development of a more competitive fuel market. The bill introduces a number of changes to wholesale market arrangements in the fuel sector to improve transparency of pricing and to provide for rules to ensure that wholesale contracts are transparent and fair. These changes aim to increase wholesale market competition, which should, over time, lead to lower fuel prices for consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill introduces a wholesale pricing regime known as \u201Cterminal gate pricing\u201D, which requires wholesale fuel suppliers at a storage terminal to publicly post a price at which they will sell specified engine fuel to wholesale customers at that storage terminal on a spot basis. This regime will provide for greater transparency of pricing, through requiring posted prices for spots of sales of wholesale fuel, and could provide a source of fuel supply for potential new entrants to the retail fuel market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThis bill provides for a regime governing contract terms between wholesale suppliers and their wholesale customers to ensure that contracts are fair and promote competition. These changes will improve the ability of distributors and dealers to compete and to switch providers. The bill also provides for a disputes resolution scheme to address disputes relating to wholesale market changes in an accessible, independent, and cost-effective manner. The bill introduces requirements for displaying certain prescribed information relating to the price of fuel at retail fuel sites. Requiring better display of information at retail outlets will assist consumers to compare prices, thereby promoting competition in the fuel market. This bill provides requirements for fuel industry participants to collect and disclose certain information to enable monitoring of the fuel market and assist in determining whether competition is being promoted for the long-term benefits of consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides powers for the Commerce Commission to enforce the new requirements, including civil pecuniary penalties based on those in the Commerce Act 1986. Regulations will be required to bring the provisions of the bill into operation and will be developed as soon as possible alongside the passage of the bill through the House. The bill provides regulation-making powers to prescribe a significant amount of detail of the bill, including terms and conditions for supply under terminal gate pricing, details for contractual requirements, requirements for consumer information relating to the price of engine fuels, and information disclosure requirements. There will be opportunities for stakeholders to be involved in the development of these regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe Government expects that, taken together, the changes proposed in this bill will increase competition in the wholesale market and, over time, lead to lower fuel prices for consumers. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022 data-id=\u002220d3fd8e1cae43c192db69afa0105d59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220d3fd8e1cae43c192db69afa0105d59\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Look, here\u2019s the Government putting through legislation which they think is going to bring the price of petrol down in time. And guess what\u2019s going to happen tomorrow? The price of petrol is going up. What marvellous timing\u2014what marvellous timing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EOf course, this bill is going to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. And, of course, Deborah Russell will chair that and get it through in quick, sharp time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e56ec0bdcbc4573b77f00f0bdd16d65\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I forgot to say the question is that the motion be agreed to. Carry on, my apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219811e3b43d04b4495a4b793fb10378d\u0022\u003EJONATHAN YOUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I was missing that moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ELook, at the last election the pump price for a litre of petrol in Auckland was 205c a litre\u2014$2.05 a litre. In January this year, it was over $2.49 a litre. And even after the global depression, with oil prices falling as they have through the floor, a litre of petrol is still more expensive now than under the last National Government. What we\u2019ve seen, if you live in Auckland, is that your price has gone up under this Government, 25c a litre. All of that\u2019s to provide a light rail service to M\u0101ngere, and I\u2019m just wondering when that\u2019s going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo here we see a Government in these last weeks of this parliamentary term rushing through a bill\u2014a very complex bill, in fact\u2014that came out of fuel market studies initiated first by the Hon Judith Collins, and then the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, (MBIE), of course, did a report on that. Then, of course, the Commerce Commission looked at that and they ran a conference themselves last year and brought all the fuel participants in to that conference to hear what they said. Of course, you know, they did say a lot. In fact, as the Minister said, the Commerce Commission published its final report on 5 December, 2019, in which they came to the conclusion that the fuel companies had been making higher profits than would be expected in a workably competitive market. I was at that conference and I listened to those fuel market participants, and what many of them had to say to the Commerce Commission and the commissioners there was that this is incredibly complex and, \u201CYou\u2019re not getting it, you don\u2019t understand.\u201D So they had individual, one-on-one meetings to go through the complexities of how this market works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EA number of them made, I think, quite striking comments. Z Energy, for instance, said, \u201COur view is that over time, the continued expansion of low-cost distributors like Waitomo, and others such as NPD, will deliver the much-needed price competition and choice consumers want.\u201D And competition is much needed. Competition is very important. Competition is what maintains good service, good prices, and keeps the market honest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhat they reported to this conference, to the Commerce Commission\u2014and BP said this\u2014is that if the wholesale market was broken or if the majors enjoyed a structural advantage which impacted workable competition, we would not have expected to have seen a total of 76 sites, not from just the independent retail brands, being Gull, Waitomo, NPD, and Allied, being built in the last five years alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo the Government is saying there is not enough competition. Yet in the last five years, 76 new outlets from independent\u2014not the majors;\u2014fuel companies have been built in New Zealand. They don\u2019t build something, they don\u2019t invest millions of dollars, unless they can get a share of that market. And they have. We all know about the Gull effect. We all know when they come to town, the effect of competition. Competition is alive and well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EI think what\u2019s happened is that this Government has seen an opportunity to charge out there on behalf of the consumer\u2014time is running out, and an election is coming near, the price of petrol is going up tomorrow, and here we are in the House today and they\u2019re beating their breast. And they\u2019re saying that they\u2019re doing the moral right and the moral good, but what they are not listening to is the fact that there are adequate elements of competition that are operating. Look, we all want to pay less, without a doubt. There wouldn\u2019t be anybody on this side of the House who wouldn\u2019t want to pay less, and that\u2019s just the way it is. You know, here\u2019s what\u2019s happened in the last five years. Allied opened 16 new South Island and 13 new North Island sites. NPD opened 21 new South Island sites. Gull opened 12 new North Island sites. Waitomo opened 14 new North Island sites. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting, you know, what we\u2019ve seen. In fact, I\u2019ve got to say what Waitomo said, and they made a very strong statement. They said, \u201COf course, one of the issues in regards to fuel price is excise taxes and regional fuel taxes. Taxes and other levies in New Zealand account for roughly 97c a litre of the pump price.\u201D So that\u2019s actually over half, if you\u2019re buying 91. But what happens when the pressure comes on and prices go up? And it\u2019s often because the international exchange rate. It\u2019s often because of the price of oil on the international market. It\u2019s often because of lots of internal market mechanisms that have to be grappled with. It\u2019s usually the fuel suppliers that get attacked. And, you know, they get sent to the principal\u2019s office. They come to the Beehive. They\u2019re marched upstairs and they are told, \u201CPlease explain.\u201D So I think what we do need to understand is that this is a particularly complex area, and I do hope that the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee does a thorough job in three weeks in getting the committee\u2019s head around the complexities of how fuel markets operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo what happens? They get criticised for taking too much margin. Well, BP, they reported\u2014and look, I know I\u2019ll probably get some smirks from the other side of the House saying, \u201CWell, of course, they would say that.\u201D But these are people who understand the market. They say that when margins were low, between 2000 and 2010, we saw\u2014this is when low margins existed for the fuel suppliers\u2014almost 400 retail sites close and the exit of Shell from the industry. More recently, as margins have restored, we\u2019ve seen expansion and investment, as we would expect, resulting in consumers now having the benefit of the broadest range of offers ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003EWhat we need to understand in the competitive market is that unless people can make a margin, they won\u2019t enter that market. So it\u2019s important to have a degree of profitability. And so what the Minister\u2019s saying, \u201COh that profitability is far too high.\u201D\u2014but when that profitability was squeezed, 400 retail outlets disappeared. Where\u2019s the competition? It\u2019s gone, and you end up with a monopoly, and then prices do get elevated. So what we\u2019ve got to understand is market principles. You know, this Government\u2014in my final minute\u2014have been very happy and ready to regulate everywhere over the energy sector, and this is just another example of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ESo in terms of terminal gate price, you know, I think a lot of people will support that idea, and visibility around that may be helpful. But it\u2019s going to be interesting to see what that is going to do to prices, because in the conversations I\u2019ve had with chief executives in the energy sector, in the liquid fuel energy sector, they have said, \u201CWell, that\u2019s happened in Australia, but we haven\u2019t seen the effect come through in the market price.\u201D So we can tinker, we can change, we can put different mechanisms in place, but the answer to all of this in terms of getting better pricing is having better competition. You\u2019ve got to find the balance between having the right level of margin in terms of getting people into the market, and you\u2019ve got to have people going in there who can get their slice of that market, and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve seen with the independents. We\u2019ve seen a huge increase of those independent retailers over the last five years, so much so that many actually say that we do have a healthy, competitive market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc9c47c0-4409-44ca-ad2f-498707f27d69\u0022\u003ELook, we\u2019re going to support this bill through to select committee, because we want to enable people to come and have a say, and I\u2019m sure that\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen. I commend this bill, and I do trust that the committee will do a thorough job in the very short three weeks they have to report back with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd13bcb8d7904c2eac8b732eec6e576a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd13bcb8d7904c2eac8b732eec6e576a\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party has never found a significant vested commercial interest that it won\u2019t stand up and defend against the needs of the people of this country. Sometimes, it goes to a position of high farce, because I remember, actually, at the end of the last Parliament when the former Minister, Judith Collins, who Mr Young quoted\u2014even she had to admit that the fuel market in New Zealand was not competitive, that it was \u201Cillogical\u201D, and that it was \u201Cnot functioning properly\u201D. That was after, under the limp-wristed competition laws that that Government oversaw, they put in place a study that some of the fuel companies refused to participate in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003ESo it took this Government, this coalition Government, to actually step up to the plate, put in place a proper market studies regime\u2014and I acknowledge the Minister, Kris Faafoi, who led that work as the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u2014which really lifted the lid on the way in which New Zealand consumers are being fleeced in this market. Unlike previous Governments, which have just kicked this can down the road, which have kissed up to the industry, we\u2019re going to do something about that on behalf of Kiwi consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just the Government which is saying these things; it is the Commerce Commission, which took a significant amount of time, which consulted with the industry, which consulted with the community, which engaged in a substantial market study, and which came to conclusions that this market was not functioning properly. So that is why we have this piece of legislation before us, and it\u2019s why we will take action with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003EI do welcome the fact that the Opposition is supporting this bill to select committee, but I would encourage them to engage seriously in it, because Kiwi consumers out there expect to have functional markets that give them a fair deal and that don\u2019t see them being fleeced by very large corporations. That\u2019s the approach this Government will take, and I hope it\u2019s the approach that the House takes over the course of this bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00226034ebc069d740ad99832d9e71feef71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226034ebc069d740ad99832d9e71feef71\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise on this side and support my colleagues and our party to support this bill to a select committee. Having actually listened to the speech by my colleague to my left Jonathan Young, who is actually very knowledgable in this area, I have to sort of admit that my contribution will be slightly less about the industry, because it is an industry that I don\u2019t know very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut as a consumer and as a person who actually drives in Auckland, as a person who actually tries to find cheap petrol when I drive, often it is actually the boards that I see on petrol stations. Some of those boards are an indication. It is, actually, the way that a lot of consumers decide which petrol station they might go to. Some of them use apps\u2014BP, for example. If you use the BP stations, they have a discount service. If you fuel $40, I think it\u2019s like 4c or 5c off, and, if you continue to use it, you can actually build up to huge amounts of discount. I think at one stage I went up to something like 60c per litre discount to fill up petrol. There\u2019s also an app called Gaspy, which also provides consumers plenty of opportunity for people to look at what gas stations are providing certain prices on any given day. I think that actually provides options for consumers to decide which petrol stations they might in fact go to at any given time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003ETalking about competition and the availability of information out there, I think it is actually quite rich for the Government to come up with a bill trying to prove that there is actually a need for improving competition. As Jonathan Young said, in the last five years, there have been independent gas stations that have opened up\u2014actually, a total of 76, I think he said. These are not big companies like BP or Shell or Z; these are actually independent ones like Allied Petroleum. Allied opened 16 new South Island gas stations and 13 in the North Island, Nelson Petroleum Distributors actually opened 21 in the South Island, Gull opened 12 on the North Island, and Waitomo opened 14 new ones. Talking about Waitomo, I have to say that some people really, really love the fact that they actually provide competition, and they actually only use independent gas stations, not the big ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I have to say that competition is something we actually need. As competition intensifies, pricing will react accordingly. I think we actually support competition. But I think the biggest thing that this Government could potentially do to reduce the cost for consumers\u2014the mums and dads of New Zealand, who actually look at prices and how expensive petrol is for that everyday use. Whether they take their children to sports on Saturdays or take the children to school or go grocery shopping, petrol is one of the high prices that people actually pay. If they actually wanted to reduce the costs for mums and dads of New Zealand, the first thing they should possibly do is axe the tax\u2014axe the tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI thought the tax in the Auckland regional fuel tax was perhaps to support the light rail that they just decided to can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da02f4952dd840a184a08bb51a76b182\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: The what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdcb1628b4d64ea792bfbc8f45dbbb66\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: The light rail that they\u2019ve decided to can. The whole idea about taxing Aucklanders more for fuel was to deliver the apparent light rail that was going to go from Dominion Road all the way to the airport, which is never going to happen, because this Government realised that they haven\u2019t done the work, they can\u2019t deliver on their promises. Phil Twyford, like KiwiBuild, cannot deliver light rail. So what they should really do is axe the tax, because the whole thing was about delivering for Aucklanders in terms of light rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EEarlier, the Minister the Hon Kris Faafoi talked about the terminal gate price. The terminal gate pricing regime requires wholesale suppliers to post the price at which they will sell fuel to wholesale customers at storage terminals on a spot-price basis. The terminal gate price is quoted for fuel only and includes no added services such as delivery. The sector is actually widely supportive of the introduction of terminal gate pricing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EBut, talking about the sector, I just want to raise this whole issue about the process this bill is taking. I guess we should be grateful that this bill\u2014unlike the previous bill that was spoken about, that people debated in this House, the Electoral (Registration of Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill (No 2), which never got a select committee process\u2014will actually get a three-week select committee process. I suppose we should be grateful for that. I wish the select committee chair and the members of that committee best of luck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EThis bill comes to us as a result of the Commerce Commission taking eight months to review the industry, providing a 400-page report that covered a whole wide range of issues which literally\u2014I don\u2019t know what it is about this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u00226ba10a4d111a4c1c8e82aed36c32c52b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ba10a4d111a4c1c8e82aed36c32c52b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really sorry to interrupt the member. The House is only sitting till 10 p.m. tonight, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2020063020f617c47cef467b80d7f0f0743d0ffe000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4d6c40f1aae401e8e2e91a25febeb51\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 30 JUNE 2020\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a32fa33e2884f648812a07a365c2c8c\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 1 July 2020)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002221cd7deec153459eaf56791a56dcf993\u0022\u003EFuel Industry Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe92ef4984da41d4a85731ef575417f2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022 data-id=\u00226bb681e042504e95a4cae7153474d031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bb681e042504e95a4cae7153474d031\u0022\u003ECLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a very brief call on this Fuel Industry Bill, which is a bit of a saving grace, really, to try and bring\u2014not try; in actual fact, to bring\u2014better pricing for New Zealand customers and start holding the feet to the fire for the big fuel companies. In fact, it\u2019s there to drive\u2014excuse the pun, by using the word drive\u2014better pricing throughout. It does create some transparency, which is much needed, and some pricing methodology which can be seen by the retailers when they\u2019re dealing with those large fuel companies. New Zealand First absolutely, 100 percent commends this bill to the House to see it progress. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002265374b2bca83414ebbb2be4a4687b3a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265374b2bca83414ebbb2be4a4687b3a9\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, it is a pleasure to speak on the Fuel Industry Bill. It\u2019s a difficult time, I understand, for the Greens, whose default position is to actually want fuel to be more expensive and as expensive as possible. But this bill, of course, seeks to do the opposite; to, in fact, introduce enough competition through the terminal gate price that that would allow competition in another sector part of the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EActually, there is plenty of competition there now, and certainly in the retailers. On my patch, through my electorate, the significant difference is in fuel prices, depending on where you go, as to how remote you are when you\u2019re\u2014not you, Madam Speaker, but myself when I\u2019m driving through the electorate. The price does vary quite considerably, but we certainly have a number of Nelson Petroleum Distributors (NPDs) that have been put in in the last few years, and more to come, and that has driven the price of fuel down through that competition. But the Greens are having difficulty with this one. I know this is a difficult time for them anyway, given they\u2019ve had to cancel their campaign launch due to lack of interest. But maybe the fuel price going up overnight with excise taxes might make them feel a little better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I do note this morning that the Road Transport Forum made some comments about the increase in road-user charges, which is going to be quite significant. This is why fuel prices are important, because it does go right through to the consumer. I note this morning that they say experience from the 2008 economic downturn indicates road wear is going to decrease, and we know that. So these road-user charges and excise taxes that are just going up at the moment are there to cover the costs of fixing the roads. But, actually, during this period we\u2019ve had a drop of about 60 to 70 percent in truck traffic during the lockdown. So the road wear will have gone down significantly. So the whole industry is feeling that. We\u2019re in a difficult time now. All of those prices go directly on to the costs of fuel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut, of course, they say they don\u2019t care about that. They aren\u2019t worried about that. They think somehow it\u2019s going to be magicked up by a business. Obviously, they don\u2019t understand how pricing and markets work. That probably is what\u2019s driven this, because, quite clearly, even in the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u2019 own Cabinet paper, it states that competition is emerging quite strongly in the fuel markets. I think that we see that all the time. But we see that Allied Petroleum have opened 16 new fuel stations in the South Island, and NPD\u201421. So it\u2019s a significant number of new operators in the market, and that has driven down the price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very complicated market and it\u2019s quite interesting to note my colleague Jonathan Young saying last night that, actually, the industry has been trying to explain it to the Commerce Commission, who simply didn\u2019t understand how the markets work. It is highly complicated, and maybe with the advent of electric cars, that will start to sort out that fuel market, as time goes on, as it faces competition from electric vehicles (EVs). But, of course, that\u2019s going to be a long time, if ever, to get right through to the heavy transport industry, which is really reliant on liquid fuels. I think, for the foreseeable future, it will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe have seen quite a bit of money, and some of that money from those taxes, go towards a pipe dream that was light rail and rail, but heavy rail\u2014nearly everything that a consumer touches will have been on the back of a truck at some point. That\u2019s how stuff is delivered around New Zealand. It\u2019s interesting to note that since the lockdown, actually, the profile of freight has changed completely, because so much of the stuff that we all buy is now being bought online, and that has far more touch points through the chain than the normal freight and goods and services that we would normally purchase through the normal links, through the chain stores and so on. It\u2019s going now by courier much more often. So they are absolutely impacted by fuel and fuel costs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re going to see how this goes through the Finance and Expenditure Committee. It is rushed yet again. I remember in the last term that the Green Party railed about urgency on everything and said it had to be an absolute emergency to have urgency\u2014I think they were the terms that they used. But their principles\u2014they\u2019ve gone out the window. [Interruption] Yeah. I don\u2019t know what their principles are, but they are certainly not what they were in the first term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut, of course, we do know that principles are only principles when they\u2019re tested. Otherwise, they are just ideals, and clearly their ideals don\u2019t have any real commitment to them. They gave them away quite quickly for the baubles of power. So with that, I commend this, in a qualified sense, to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2715839ceee41079429d0154cffd412\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2715839ceee41079429d0154cffd412\u0022\u003EMARAMA DAVIDSON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I really appreciate it when the Opposition members of the House continue to talk about the Green Party. Please keep talking about us. I figure that they don\u2019t have too much to talk about when it comes to talking about themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe Greens are supporting this, the Fuel Industry Bill. Essentially, it incorporates a lot of what the Commerce Commission\u2019s study into fuel pricing in New Zealand put forward as a way to benefit consumers, and that is the provision that we are supporting in this bill today in the House. I wanted to put a short call on the Hansard record to be very clear about the Greens\u2019 position. We absolutely support this strengthened consumer protection legislation and measures to support consumers exercising their rights at low cost, and that is the core principle that is at play here, essentially, through introducing a terminal gate pricing regime, which is similar to that in operation in Australia at this time. So the Greens can and do support initiatives to make sure consumers are not further subject to unreasonable and unfair treatment by fuel companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EOf course\u2014and it\u2019s not the biggest issue in this bill for the Greens\u2014we overall are going to continue to want to push for and see helpful, just transition alternative fuel provisions, and that\u2019s across all of the legislative and policy work of the Government. However, in this bill we are very happy to stand and support benefits for consumers, benefits for our communities and our peoples who are just trying to get by day to day and live their lives, and so we are happy to support the Fuel Industry Bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002207ec1716cb0b471f8f833cf6aa0380eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207ec1716cb0b471f8f833cf6aa0380eb\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E This is a fantastic opportunity to speak on the Fuel Industry Bill in its first reading. Can I just start out by saying this is another case of incompetence with this Government. Think back to 2018 and 2019 when this Government was dealing with some serious issues around fuel prices. In Auckland, fuel prices got to about around $2.30, or over $2.30 for a litre of 91. So there was pressure on the Government at the time to commit to doing something on fuel prices, so the Prime Minister came out and gave this glossy announcement: \u201CWe\u2019re going to do a fuel market study.\u201D And in December 2019, the Commerce Commission published that study, which recommended some of the changes that we are debating today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut that is very distant to the New Zealand we\u2019re faced with now, with fuel prices tanking, not because of fuel taxes but because of global supply and demand for fuel, and now we\u2019re discussing a bill that actually is quite outdated given that we faced some pressures nearly two years ago on that matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBut speaking now to the substance of the bill, let\u2019s talk about the fuel market and what the Commerce Commission has come out with. They\u2019ve said that it is not competitive. Well, I disagree with that. Of course on this side of the House we adore competitiveness, and that is why the markets will reach a point at which fuel prices will be lower for consumers. This House has already heard my colleague Jonathan Young talk about the fact that there is competitiveness in this sector. Yes, there were some oligopoly companies, large companies, but in the last few years, what you\u2019ve seen is a whole range of regional and niche suppliers. Waitomo is a classic case\u2014a great company supplying New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799e0036115b464a86cad33a23cdb2f7\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Great area of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2dd649a1a1f4c748d0f036efa0d7c22\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: A great area of the country\u2014a few Bidois\u2019 down that way\u2014and they are providing really low-cost alternatives for the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s Gull, and I must say I\u2019m a supporter of Gull\u2014very, very low-cost retail prices there. I think this reflects, actually, the general sense of other sectors in New Zealand\u2014the fuel sector\u2019s no different, whether you\u2019re talking banking and financial services, whether you\u2019re talking electricity, or whether you\u2019re talking telecommunications. My belief is that what makes these sectors competitive is actually when you get low-cost players\u2014whether it\u2019s 2degrees in the telecommunications sector, or whether it\u2019s companies like Kiwibank and the value that they have provided in the financial services, where they\u2019ve provided low-cost banking services to the sector. Actually, what you\u2019ve seen here is a maturity of the fuel market where there\u2019s been an oligopoly in the past, and yet there\u2019s low-cost providers that come in and have made a substantial contribution to that sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo we absolutely, on this side of the House, support competitive markets. And let me talk to you about the way we get those competitive markets in New Zealand. Greater transparency of pricing\u2014that is something we absolutely can support and that is why we\u2019re supporting this bill to select committee. We want to see how those wholesale prices are determined and whether there are opportunities to actually improve the transparency of pricing of fuel in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s the aspect of competition, which I\u2019ve talked about, and whether we can encourage greater competition, and maybe it\u2019s just regional competition or competition in certain cities that needs to occur, but we will look at that in the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376eb5c037464dae92fe694a2941f73d\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Something to look forward to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4935e3ca1bb4ea19b4c3b58df8e9401\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, something to look forward to, as my colleague Chris Penk just said here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo this is a good bill. There\u2019s many aspects of the bill we will look forward to discussing in the select committee, and, as I said, we now face a very different situation than we did when the Prime Minister made a glossy announcement about the market study over a year and a half ago. My colleague Stuart Smith has raised the point that today, 1 July, fuel taxes are going up. I\u2019ve got to ask this House and this Government in particular: is it in the best interests of New Zealanders that we have those fuel taxes go up? I don\u2019t think it is, and I speak for every hard-working New Zealander out there that is facing lower fuel prices because of global demand, yet is facing increased prices because this Government wants to tax them more to then pay for projects like rail which, by the way, isn\u2019t happening under this Labour-led Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo, look, we will support this to select committee, and we\u2019ll support this because we on this side of the House see opportunities and want to find opportunities to improve the competitiveness and the competition of the fuel market sector. Where there are opportunities to do that, whether it\u2019s increased transparency, whether it\u2019s encouraging greater competition, we will support those measures. But until we get to select committee and hear those voices, we cannot commit further on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003ESo it is, again, another case of the Government making a glossy announcement, doing nothing, and now we\u2019re here in urgency discussing this law today. So we will support this bill to select committee\u2014I commend this bill, at least to select committee, and to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u002232b967cb6d894b98aab4c6667b65ab4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232b967cb6d894b98aab4c6667b65ab4c\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand in support of this bill. This is an important bill because many, many families\u2019 fuel costs are a significant chunk of their budget, I think, particularly in large rural areas where people have got to travel significant distances to get to work, or even in big urban centres like Auckland, where you\u2019ve got to go across town. I think, in the context of post-COVID recovery many families are going to be\u2014every single dollar will count in their budgets. They\u2019re going to be looking at where they can cuts costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think anything that\u2019s going to improve transparency, competition, and the fuel market is going to be incredibly important, because it\u2019s ultimately going to benefit consumers. So I\u2019m very happy to stand in support of this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6fdf6cc0f1a4b3aa23d206dbef0d106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6fdf6cc0f1a4b3aa23d206dbef0d106\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I too stand in support today of the Fuel Industry Bill, but only through to select committee at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIt is becoming a real pattern in this House that we are seeing legislation dropped on us in urgency to debate and give the House\u2019s considered thought and process to these things. This bill was not even on the Order Paper. It was not even mentioned yesterday when the Leader of the House reeled off the list of bills that were going to be debated under urgency in this House. It didn\u2019t appear until yesterday afternoon, I understand, so we have to wonder that it was probably still being drafted yesterday morning. So, again, another example of rushed legislation, and we\u2019ve seen examples already\u2014even yesterday, as we go back and correct the mistakes of rushed legislation. So this kind of process does no justice to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe fuel industry is a very competitive model that we have in this country. But the one thing that does concern me is that when we\u2019re talking about something so large and that makes such an impact on everybody in this country, we do not do justice to it by such a truncated process. We\u2019ve got industry players in this country, such as the Road Transport Association New Zealand, the New Zealand Trucking Association, the Road Transport Forum, and the owners and operators of over 4 million vehicles in this country that will have an interest in what happens in terms of this piece of legislation. They need the opportunity to participate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EWe have in this country a fleet, as I say, of over 4 million vehicles. It\u2019s interesting to learn that the average age of those vehicles in this country is actually increasing. So over the past 15 years, we\u2019ve seen that increase. The average age of vehicles in this country is 14\u00BD years for passenger vehicles and it\u2019s actually 18 years for heavy vehicles\u2014heavy trucks. So we have more efficient vehicles on the road and we have vehicles that are actually lasting longer. So the impact that this bill will have on them, of course, as anyone with any sense will understand\u2014you increase the cost of operating those vehicles, and the end user, the person who pays for the goods and products that are transported around this country in that fleet, are the ones that end up paying for it. The very people that in this day and age, post-COVID, when the world is in such economic stress\u2014they are the ones that are going to be asked to pay for this increase in fuel tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spent some time pumping gas in my life. I spent quite a few years at a very small rural garage, so I understand the stress that is also on those businesses. I\u2019d like to put a shout-out to a couple who live in Haast, Eamonnd and Heleen Johnston, who have Johnston Motors down there. They\u2019re one of the most remote fuel stations that we\u2019ve got, and, unfortunately, they do have to have a large fuel price. It\u2019s probably higher than you will get in most places. But the reality is that to get a fuel truck to Haast is a long way from everywhere. The truck cannot get there and back to its depot in one day, so the driver has to overnight. So the cost of all of that delivery goes on to that retailer. He has no option but to charge enough for his fuel to cover those costs. So we see there is already 97c a litre in taxes, or it was until today\u201497c a litre already on his fuel bill. So he\u2019s got to cover that extra transport, the extra cost of that person overnighting. Now, in a 24-hour period, we know that driver can only do 13 hours of work before he has to have a 10-hour break, so it\u2019s expensive to get fuels to those areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe last thing our most remote and rural communities need is more tax going on their fuel bills. We need to support the people in the provinces. We need to support those communities in our most remote areas, and we don\u2019t do that by adding more and more taxes on to those basic commodities that they have no choice but to have to buy. This Government is so removed from reality\u2014they do not get that. We look forward to a very short select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022 data-id=\u0022979eea5c56b847939fc9025bd80cc608\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022979eea5c56b847939fc9025bd80cc608\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker; a pleasure to take a short call on the first reading of the Fuel Industry Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ba7a7213364dd2a9f5a46ad2a95117\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Take a long call!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f677db8b-66c5-4794-953c-bdf7aa425710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229224cf1fb08d425abef1a885978dad55\u0022\u003EMARJA LUBECK\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t need to take a long call, because it\u2019s fairly clear that this is a very longstanding issue. When the previous speaker, Maureen Pugh, spoke about a rushed process, it was rather disingenuous, because this is a problem that had been known by the previous Government for a very long time. Judith Collins had the same information available as what we are acting on. The report of the Commerce Commission clearly states that consumers are being fleeced at the pumps, and so we are addressing it, because this is a Government that is addressing those longstanding issues where the previous Government was too shy to. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u002263feb4ea1ada47d296826ea7ed4c480c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263feb4ea1ada47d296826ea7ed4c480c\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take the final call on this side of the House on this bill. I, sort of, am somewhat incredulous as to what I\u2019m hearing today about how important this is in the scale of things; how important it is to households; and how much the cost of everything is important, particularly in the post-COVID environment. On the very same day that fuel taxes are being hiked again, road-user taxes are being hiked again\u2014and, as we know, hardly any new roads have been built by this current Government\u2014so on the very same day. Where\u2019s the money going, and what is it going to be spent on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI venture to suggest that if this review had been done right at this point when fuel prices had dramatically reduced, then the Prime Minister wouldn\u2019t have said that they\u2019re being fleeced at the pump\u2014there wouldn\u2019t even be a priority for this. The fact of the matter was that a whole lot of market conditions ended up at a very high fuel price, that\u2019s where we ended up, and suddenly the Government has to do something; so the Government commissioned a review. We will support this going to the select committee; however, the Government commissioned a review on the basis that somehow everybody was being fleeced. Well, I tell you what, in the last six months, I think you\u2019ll find most oil traders, companies, and anybody involved in the oil industry will think they\u2019ve been fleeced, because, if you\u2019ve seen what\u2019s happened to the price of crude, what\u2019s happened to the market, what\u2019s happened to the futures, for a period of time the forward price of fuel was in the negative. It had gone from $50 a barrel into the minus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo the biggest impact of fuel prices is not what happened in this space, it\u2019s what\u2019s happens in global markets and global supply and demand, and it\u2019s what happens with taxes. Today, this Government, without a blink of an eyelid, has just piled on more taxes on to the New Zealand citizens, and it goes right to the heart of affordability in households. Liz Craig commented that this is what this is all about because people are being fleeced at the pump. She said that in this very House, on the same day as they stick everything up, all the prices go up\u2014the prices go up\u2014not to mention the productive part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EToday road-user charges go up as well. Every single part of the New Zealand economy will be impacted by road-user charges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25a7af7e9644d6e993fb088812fde66\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Bad for Hawke\u2019s Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e63f9f1345c94219bb4420a204087bf6\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: In Hawke\u2019s Bay, exactly\u2014our whole productive economy. At the same time where, in Hawke\u2019s Bay, the place I represent, we\u2019ve had zero investment on the State highway network, apart from some safety rails\u2014some safety rails. So the Napier to Hastings expressway cancelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae510e8710948c6946059227f3a4dd4\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224994321b7a5c4a218d1f2d813edacbf3\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: Cancelled; not even on the programme. So it\u2019s all very well at the same day to cry that the issue that fuel prices are impacting on households. I understand households are struggling, but the same day that fuel prices, we are told, are impacting on households, this Government just sticks the price up on households again, on the very same day, under urgency\u2014they bring this bill under urgency. One could be tempted to think that it\u2019s been brought into the House under urgency to try and mask the fact that on 1 July all these fuel prices are going up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIf I look at what are in these recommendations, generally, Minister Faafoi, there\u2019s a lot of good things in the recommendations about transparency, accountability, and all those things. So I\u2019m not against that. What I am saying is I don\u2019t believe this will make a material difference to the price of fuel to mum and dad, Joe Citizen and their kids, who rock up to the pump.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e42ccacb93fb4ec59d5d59cd4be37496\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019ll they think in Mana?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229acac5d5ed8f4d18a182a90f49bda707\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t be worrying about it now because the price of fuel has dropped, largely because market conditions have changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI look at some of the things on here and I\u2019m quite intrigued. We\u2019re going to put a sticker on the fuel cap to say what is the minimum fuel grade to be used in vehicle. We\u2019re going to require that 96 is put on the advertising to know what the price of 96 is. I don\u2019t know of anybody that uses 96; there\u2019ll be the odd person, but I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b491bf8cb8ce400395c7b84ff41f44c2\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: An older car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265ba6caa929740a08ae97282cb4f5713\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE\u003C/span\u003E: An older car maybe\u2014an older car maybe. Then there are all sorts of recommendations. Minister Faafoi, I do support, personally, the terminal gate pricing regime. I think that is a useful addition to the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EBut what I\u2019m trying to get to is that it\u2019s all very well to spend a lot of time and effort changing the regulations, but this is a complex industry. The existing players\u2014the big ones: Z Energy, Mobil, and BP\u2014largely are responsible for building all the infrastructure for our fuel system in New Zealand\u2014all of it. Hundreds of millions, probably billions, of investments, including support for the refinery, that has been built by these companies. A lot of capital has been involved, and they have generally made it because they need a return on that capital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIt is harder for new entries to come in. It\u2019s really not a lot different to the electricity sector. It\u2019s harder for new entries to come in, because you\u2019ve got sunk capital, a distribution and refining network, and then you\u2019ve got new players coming along seeking to undercut those key players, and they need to manage and pay their share of those costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIf you look at what has happened in New Zealand in the last period of time, and I read this out from the work that was given to the Commerce Commission, for example, in the last five years, Allied Petroleum has opened 16 new South Island service centres for distributing fuel and 13 in the North Island. NPD has opened 21 new sites in the South Island. Gull has opened 12 new North Island sites, and Waitomo has opened 14 new North Island sites. That is competition. That is competition working. The balance for this House to consider\u2014and Minister Faafoi in your work\u2014is to what degree do you interrupt that competition or change it or, sort of, nationalise the pricing structure, and what degree will that make a difference? Ultimately, that is running squarely up against what the large retailers and distributors\u2014BP, Mobil, and Z Energy\u2014have been doing for years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s fair to say also that Waitomo\u2014and I listened to them at the select committee earlier on, on the fuel tax increase. So when we looked at the fuel tax increase in Auckland, Waitomo came to the select committee, and they said they were having some difficulty getting to other parts of the market because they couldn\u2019t get, at that stage, storage facilities in the lower part of the North Island. OK, that\u2019s what they said, and that was probably a year ago. They said that that was causing an increase in the price of fuel. So those things do need to be addressed if you\u2019re going to have an open market and you\u2019re going to give best competition for all the operators, including Waitomo and others, then there does need to be a levelling of the playing field. But, once again, that needs to be measured against what the large players have already invested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003ESo we will support this to select committee, but not necessarily beyond that point. I remind the House and members of the public of New Zealand that we are doing this under urgency. There is a shortened select committee process. The Government is trying to get this done before the election as one of their priorities. I\u2019m questioning that, as all the other things that New Zealand needs to deal with post-COVID, on the very same day that the same Government puts up the price of fuel and road-user charges, on the very same day we\u2019re in urgency trying to get this piece of legislation through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EI just can\u2019t understand, in the priority of things, why this is such a priority for this Government. I accept that work needs to be done, and I accept that a select committee is probably good to look at this. But when you look at what has happened to the price of fuel, and I think you can buy diesel, probably, in Hawke\u2019s Bay now for under a dollar a litre, retail at the pump, and petrol is a dollar 60-something\u2014around that. When you look at what happened, the pressure that fuel was placing on families is not nearly as great as it was about nine months ago. So I\u2019m questioning the Minister and the Government of the need to put this through urgency, with a truncated select committee process, and for what. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EThe last thing I\u2019d say, as I close, is there\u2019s a whole lot of recommendations on this sheet, which is a summary sheet, on reviewing arrangements for the directive\u2014sort of disincentivisation investment in shared storage. Now, that is the issue that Waitomo tried to raise with us at select committee, because, basically, what we were being told at that point was that the price of fuel in other parts of New Zealand that weren\u2019t serviced by Waitomo was expensive because there wasn\u2019t the degree of competition, and I have some sympathy for that. So we need to find a way of managing the distribution and the storage. I think, if this bill and this select committee hears about that and finds a way of doing that, that will be helpful to New Zealand. But ultimately, the private sector will invest and provide a competitive market, and, I believe, will have more impact on the price of fuel than this bill will ever have. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00220d847a76a0da41a7952d636b605a9978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d847a76a0da41a7952d636b605a9978\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s always a delight to have the last call on such a very good piece of legislation. You would think, listening to the other side, that they were very confused about their arguments on this particular bill\u2014\u201CYes, we\u2019ll take it to select committee.\u201D; \u201COh, we like competition, but actually we\u2019re a bit anti-competition.\u201D I was actually starting to lose where they were going in their arguments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThis is a great piece of legislation, and I commend the Minister of Energy and Resources for this, because the changes proposed in this bill are expected to increase competition across the wholesale market, and that, over time, will lead to lower fuel prices for consumers. So, on that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022186f9e844a094e49b94dcd5de0f9d260\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022186f9e844a094e49b94dcd5de0f9d260\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: I move, That the Fuel Industry Bill be reported to the House by 21 July 2020 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 191, 193, and 194(1)(b) and (c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs I outlined previously during the first reading debate, it is important that the bill be passed without undue delay to signal to consumers and the fuel industry that this Government is serious about introducing more competition in the fuel market. The underlying problems in the industry have been in place over a long period of time and there is no reason to further delay solving them. While this report-back date requires a much shorter time in a select committee than usual, there has already been a significant consultation over a number of years with the fuel industry on the issues underlying this bill. I\u2019m therefore confident this process will be substantial in achieving our desired outcomes and allow the Government to take prompt action to address those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EWith the election approaching, the House will meet for just a few weeks between now and the end of the year. The referral to select committee for between four and six months would, in practice, mean that the bill would not be passed before next February or March, and New Zealanders deserve a quicker solution to this issue. They\u2019ve waited long enough and there is plenty of evidence that this is a popular move. In the current uncertain economic times, a need for a rapid conclusion to this issue is more pressing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EIn the first reading debate the Opposition was arguing why this was being debated under urgency. Well, the previous Government had nine years to do this. On this side, the Government, in three years, has introduced the market study power from the Commerce Commission, which allowed this market study to be undertaken. Those recommendations have come back and we will act swiftly to make sure that New Zealanders get fair treatment at the pump. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Jan Tinetti pointed out, there were also a number of arguments from the Opposition that this is not the time to do it post-COVID. Well, this is exactly the right time to do that. New Zealanders, as they sit around their kitchen tables, are worried about their weekly costs. If they are paying more at the pump than they should do, then this Government is committed to making sure that we help them by making sure that that money stays in their wallets for them to use, for their families, rather than giving it to fuel companies who for decades have been taking this money off hard-working families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003EThe other issue I\u2019d like to raise is that the Opposition said that this is complex. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae03f832547420ebc853e3afb937f93\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the Minister that this debate is about the timing, not a general debate about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a3790146d24848875659070a7cd798\u0022\u003EHon KRIS FAAFOI\u003C/span\u003E: The other opposition I heard from the other side of the House is that this issue is complex. Yes, it is complex. But this has been doing the rounds for some time. If that Opposition can\u2019t handle the fact that this complex issue, which has been around for more than a decade, has been round the traps many times through a market study and only needs three weeks to go through a select committee, well, they are setting their agenda firmly in the camp of the fuel companies and not in the camp of those consumers who desperately need help right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220ab576cf165242b4ac8f47a4ce7a7d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ab576cf165242b4ac8f47a4ce7a7d77\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki - King Country):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Opposition opposes the shortened report-back date, and just for the interest of the public who are watching this this morning, the Minister has just stood up and talked about nine years and 12 years. The Minister\u2019s been in Government for nearly three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223483eccf48ba4548a2f87487622aa963\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: We did more in three years than you did in nine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a3201856b440f2b2f8211a8bc2db76\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: He put up a bill yesterday\u2014which is, effectively, today because we\u2019re in urgency; so in Parliament it\u2019s the same date as it was yesterday\u2014and all of a sudden he realised that it\u2019s three sitting weeks until the election, and the Minister says it\u2019s urgent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290ea1538-43e8-4257-bd80-df3ccd1e5f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c040d94b5148c9bc6b3101413629b6\u0022\u003EHon Kris Faafoi\u003C/span\u003E: Nine years of mucking around and we did it in three.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfbd880bc72d4473970ef3189ab2bb55\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Minister, you\u2019ve had your turn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f544f2d6f4324b15ac216e08ec9107ea\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER\u003C/span\u003E: After three years of sitting around and not doing something, all of a sudden it\u2019s urgent. So I suggest that the Government gets its act together. It\u2019s only got three more sitting weeks as a Government, because we all know what\u2019s going to happen on 19 September, and I suggest that rather than review the expenditure of everybody else, this Government should review its own expenditure, because it\u2019s spending up large and not measuring. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a6a75a0eb278447cbd0c37e2a419f077\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1d8e1183f0c4acbb7ece919243fd30d\u0022\u003EForests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb4632a70ab4461ca8337c11559d220e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1c9d007ec0d46e584b38d5576641583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1c9d007ec0d46e584b38d5576641583\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e Te Whare. I move, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EFirst, I would like to acknowledge the efforts of the select committee, led by Dr Duncan Webb, and to share with the House that this is evidence that the select committee process works. This select committee process enabled a host of submitters, some using cyclostyle submissions; however, these submitters were able to bring their concerns forward to the select committee as we sought to refine this piece of legislation\u2014very significant in the post-COVID environment, because it addresses a longstanding problem in the forestry sector, which is the absence of certainty, predictability, or, quite frankly, the ability for the investors in the domestic processing manufacturing segment of the broader forestry community to plan and invest. This bill has been improved through the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere were some concerns that the bill may have interfered with the ability of the owners of commodities to actually sell within an envelope struck by the seller and the purchaser. That in itself was an apocryphal falsehood; however, the chair of the select committee and the members addressed that issue by making it very clear to the elements from the forest sector and the broader community who have an interest in the passage of this bill that it was never the intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EA few other things I would like to say that have happened as a consequence of the Environment Committee reviewing this bill is that the \u201CPurpose\u201D section has been strengthened. The select committee deemed it appropriate to add the term \u201Cequity\u201D into the purpose statement. Now, the term \u201Cequity\u201D is of incredible importance in any industry but in particular the forestry sector to ensure there is an equitable distribution between the raw material that is required to boost and maintain jobs and fuel industry in our own country and the ability of log mongers, on behalf of largely foreign-owned entities, to continue to sell to international markets. International trade is incredibly important, but of equal importance in the post-COVID environment is us looking after ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThe call for this type of regulation has been longstanding from those members of the forest-owning community who are concerned about the quality of advice they have been receiving from forest advisors. Log mongers have, in many cases, not represented with much integrity, quite frankly, the best interests of the forest sector. They have treated many of their fellow New Zealanders in a very disrespectful and a very dangerous way, given that the New Zealanders employed in processing and manufacturing face considerable harm, stress, and pressure, given the rising tide of protectionism in other parts of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s important that when we pass\u2014which is largely a regime to create an occupational licensing system. Some of the ideas were borrowed from the days when the regime of real estate agents was brought into a more tidier form. Sadly, some elements of the forest sector have made wild accusations and use quite incandescent rhetoric, which is most unbecoming of people who are meant to be representing the better interests and the finer sentiments of international investors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAfter the election, it\u2019s likely that politicians will want to restrict the ability of forest investors to expand their holdings into productive farmland. Those matters, however, belong on the electoral trail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a provision for complaints to be made. There is a provision for people to be registered, and once they are registered, the quality of their conduct can be tested and they can live up to a higher level of commercial conduct than has historically been the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EBut there is no provision in this bill\u2014as I wind up\u2014that impinges forestry owners\u2019 property rights. Similarly, there is no provision that enables the State to fix prices. What it is doing is bringing transparency and upholding the importance of integrity in this sector of the economy, where there have been too many egregious cases of cowboys in the Wild West\u2014although it\u2019s often on the East Coast, as is evident in the media this morning by the debris in Tolaga Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAs I repeat again, this bill does not violate a single international obligation in terms of the World Trade Organization or trade. Those are falsehoods. Those are accusations which, quite frankly, will not stand up once the glare of publicity continues to be directed in cleaning up this part of the industry with an overdue regime for licensing log mongers and ensuring that the providers of advice, such as the Roger Dickies of the world, are held to a high standard of integrity. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022 data-id=\u00223d89fc10ff4f4bc183b0b527dae7c9f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d89fc10ff4f4bc183b0b527dae7c9f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER (National):\u003C/span\u003E As I listened to that speech by the Hon Shane Jones, my thoughts considered a future political science student studying that valedictory speech from the Hon Shane Jones and suddenly wondering what decade it was actually said, because that is the sort of speech I would have expected in the 1970s and the 1980s when this Parliament sat and put price controls across all sorts of products. I thought we\u2019d moved past that and I can tell the House today that National will continue to oppose this ridiculous legislation. We will stand up for common sense in the forestry industry, something that the Labour Party should be doing today. But instead they\u2019ll sit there and they will swallow yet another dead rat from New Zealand First insisting this legislation be passed before the election. I say that this legislation will be just another nail in the coffin of the New Zealand First Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI speak today on behalf of our member for Clutha-Southland, Hamish Walker, who is down doing his constituency work in his home patch. But he asked me to take this call on behalf of National and certainly say that we will oppose this legislation not only in the second reading but through the committee stage and for the third reading, because we are highly suspicious as to why this legislation is before the House. In the dying days of this Government, I suspect Labour should stand up and actually also be opposing this legislation. I cannot believe that the Labour Party truly believes we should be putting in place legislation that, when you sift through the words involved in this legislation, comes down to one thing: the ability of the Minister of Forestry to control the log price to ensure that domestic processes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222788b283894461bb98fec714857f40c\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Not accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d3d029ffa594a18822427c1bf21bb5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014get logs supplied to them. That\u2019s what it\u2019s about, and Duncan Webb chaired the select committee. He knows that\u2019s what it\u2019s about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751119940c4a41af99aae77734452cbe\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: Shame on him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbd84060c5744b8ca477730b54d644f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, yet, I suspect shortly he\u2019ll take a call, and shame on him. He will support this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI want to start by considering the process of this legislation, because that in itself has been a shambolic process. It was put into an urgency motion on the Budget of 14 May. It was rushed off to a select committee, the Environment Committee, whereas for the time that I\u2019ve always been here, forestry legislation has gone on to the appropriate select committee, the Primary Production Committee. But there was an issue there because maybe the Government didn\u2019t have the numbers to control the legislation, so they shifted it off to the Environment Committee, where clearly they have the numbers to control it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen the next thing they did is they shambolically restricted the process by which submissions could be heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833162d66e274de58555e3cc87780635\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: How long were submissions open?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c4cfaa5f45d4d1385d9bd684d4ce409\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: They opened for submissions on 15 May, and\u2014would you believe it?\u2014they closed that submission date six days later. The standard process in this House, Dr Duncan Webb, is six weeks. It could have been done, because here we\u2019re talking about the second reading today, many months after this, but they gave it six days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003ESo did they get a few submissions? I respect the forestry industry\u2014650 submissions flowed into that select committee, of which 640 were absolutely impeccably opposed to this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022919a8e8d-afaf-4342-ad6f-71cbb6024544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbdbf95d0399413a8962687c53496350\u0022\u003EClayton Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Because of the big multinationals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3514a20d2c240e18722f7d350253df4\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Clayton Mitchell says it was big multinationals. Well, the submissions I saw were actually mum and dad investors\u2014mum and dad investors\u2014in woodlots, farmers with their woodlots. They\u2019re not big multinational investors. In fact, for Clayton Mitchell to interject suggesting that, I tell him to go back and watch the news last night about big multinational investors. Have a look at Newshub at 6 o\u2019clock last night, Clayton Mitchell. I\u2019ll talk about that shortly at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI have been involved in the periphery as a farmer in the forestry industry. I\u2019ve owned woodlots; I\u2019ve milled woodlots, and for Shane Jones to suggest the industry is full of cowboys is an absolute insult to this industry. It is highly professionalised. There are good people in this industry. But then they put this legislation before the House and shortly, you watch, Labour will vote for it\u2014Labour will vote for it. They\u2019ll swallow that dead rat, yet again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236c048aa48e14fa8a7b94d107b4576bb\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll remind them on the trail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fc5ad1fab544d38b765aa1e25f0cd1\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they\u2019ll know about it on the trail. They\u2019ll know about it. They\u2019ll vote for this legislation, and what does it do? It puts in a registration regime for log owners, for log traders, and for forestry advisers. And then it has the ability, subsequently, for Ministers to impose regulation. That\u2019s the bite, Dr Duncan Webb. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228be3ffe3fd764046b458e9b54763986a\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll talk about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d655aa6555d4ddf955c096550499259\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: What that is\u2014I know the member will talk about it, but it won\u2019t help in talking about it, because it\u2019s wrong. What it is is price control. What it is is making sure that the price of logs is controlled in such a way that potentially vulnerable or marginally economic processors get an opportunity to buy logs at a price that makes them competitive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EI say to the member over there\u2014Dr Duncan Webb\u2014who continues to interject, Argentina tried this. They tried it with the beef industry and it brought their economy to its knees. They were worried about the price of beef to domestic consumers so they restricted the price and brought it down and made sure that a huge quantity of that beef stayed in Argentina. It was an absolute disaster of a policy and that\u2019s exactly what this Government is doing\u2014it\u2019s exactly what this Government is attempting to do. I say that we\u2019ve moved such a long way with the economy, as we\u2019ve opened it up over the last 20 and 30 years, whereby we have a market that\u2019s open to pricing, and that\u2019s the way it should be. If the international buyers of logs are offering a price, then if the domestic processors want to meet that price, then they can. But to try and control the price and bring it down to make a few sawmillers, who are possibly marginally economic anyway, have the ability to process those logs is absolutely wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EWhat this is about, as I mentioned, is the compulsory registration of advisers. What will that achieve? That is more red tape and more regulation. It\u2019s about the compulsory registration of log trading entities. Well, that includes me when I mill my next forestry farmlet. Why should I have to register as a log trading entity? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThen there is the issue which the Minister raised around trade implications. We suspect there are breaches with the World Trade Organization. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37c08cdec054761ad5325b0fa60c5d5\u0022\u003EHon Nathan Guy\u003C/span\u003E: He said it\u2019s a falsehood.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2ab40b85e6c45648d959de4b5a9c968\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: And he said it\u2019s a falsehood. The National Opposition members asked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) to come before the select committee and that chairman, Dr Duncan Webb, used his numbers to stop MFAT coming before that committee. So there is no information before the select committee that this doesn\u2019t breach World Trade Organization rules. I suspect it does, and for a country like New Zealand that\u2019s built a reputation second to none around being free traders on international rules, that in itself is a possibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003EThe question that should be asked, as we conclude this debate, is who benefits? Who benefits? Well, I\u2019ll let Duncan Webb tell us that because I\u2019m sure he knows. But I suspect it\u2019s one or two very large domestic processors. I know one of them to be the wealthiest man in New Zealand, Graeme Hart. He just happens to be a contributor to the New Zealand First Foundation. That\u2019s in the public arena. I just hope we\u2019re not seeing a situation where, again, we\u2019re seeing big money determining policy in this place, because we had the issue last night, and I suspect it\u2019s true, around the fishing industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7cedff7e4f4ef692c04b1487cf8174\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022977cccaf-581d-4f48-924e-32bf6c54a93d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9befd7aee8d47829f9d56189ea35f94\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019ve anticipated the point of order. As you saw, I was remonstrating with the former Speaker, who I\u2019m sure is well aware of the Standing Orders. He is traversing into a very delicate transmission\u2014well, transgressions in the Standing Orders, as he well knows, by implying that they are being influenced by outside\u2014the Government\u2019s being influenced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a672b737242045769dd77927699ddcd4\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: I would definitely not be saying that, Madam Speaker. It would be dangerous to say that. What I am saying is that this House needs to examine very carefully who benefits from this legislation. There are two possibilities in my mind. One is the big investor in the New Zealand domestic forestry scene. They potentially benefit because their logs come in at a cheaper price. The other potential benefactors would be a few smaller sawmills\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261da8f2fcedc400297c5c7754d29d769\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: Whereabouts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212b598a337554bcc8414d6d4a8842064\u0022\u003ERt Hon DAVID CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014marginally operative, probably operating in the Northland electorate, for example. They are the only two sectors in my mind who benefit from this ridiculous legislation. Let Duncan Webb prove that I\u2019m not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002264264d3409b34addbf15d1450391f597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264264d3409b34addbf15d1450391f597\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m really surprised, Mr Carter, that you appear to have come to the House without the bill, because pretty much everything you said there was addressed by the very robust select committee. Well, if you\u2019re waving it around, you should have read it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe very first thing I\u2019ll say\u2014all this nonsense about price fixing. Now, look, the bill, when it came to the Environment Committee, had room for improvement, and that\u2019s exactly what we did. And section 63ZZC(2A), in clause 7, now makes it abundantly clear that setting of prices is not something that can be done by regulations. No matter which is properly for commercial agreement can be set by regulations. So that is absolute nonsense and scaremongering, and I\u2019m, frankly, surprised that a member of that seniority would bring that kind of material to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis bill, its purpose is set out very clearly as equity of access\u2014making sure that the market is transparent and fair. Don\u2019t worry, Mr Carter. I\u2019m not quite sure how big your landholding is, but, unless you are logging 2,000 cubic metres or more a year, you are entirely exempt from this bill. This is not about small holdings. No\u2014another bit that you forgot to look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAs for the World Trade Organization, that shibboleth has been thrown up time and again, and I have asked repeatedly: point me to the place where the breach occurs. I undertook some research, and it\u2019s quite right that there are many provisions which talk about open markets, including the elimination of quantitative restrictions. The fact is that you can\u2019t place restrictions on how much can be exported\u2014whether it be beef, logs, or anything else. I read the bill\u2014went through it with a fine-tooth comb. Nowhere in the bill is there any transgression of the quantitative restrictions provisions of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. It\u2019s just yet again the National Party throwing up nonsense, scaremongering, and pretending the bill does something it doesn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is a good piece of legislation. There are some ratbag traders out there. There are some poor-quality advisers out there, and our logging industry needs to be done fairly, properly, with high-quality advice and robust trading. That\u2019s what this bill does. I\u2019ll commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0498a28fb5149d2bc5da92f0ba2b3df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0498a28fb5149d2bc5da92f0ba2b3df\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a humiliation to watch a member of the calibre of Dr Duncan Webb come to this House and have to defend and apologise to this House, effectively, for a shoddy, shameful, shambolic piece of legislation of this sort. It\u2019s a crying shame that someone of the calibre of Dr Webb is not currently in Cabinet, nor his predecessor as chair on that committee, Deborah\u2014the current member for New Lynn\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c115101db89b435494dd3283db6c608b\u0022\u003EDr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Russell\u2014Russell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267dfc373bb6a4481bafb279bd66771b4\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Russell; that\u2019s right. How quickly we forget. Once they leave the lofty heights of the select committee chair, how quickly we forget. Dr Deborah Russell would have chaired that committee completely differently, because, as the Rt Hon David Carter said, it was a shambolic process. It was short, it was brief, it was incoherent, it was insulting to the 650 submitters, who, at very short notice, presented to the committee, and a massive 640 of those submissions were opposed\u2014implacably opposed\u2014to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhat really is going on here is the bigger question of coalition politics. First of all, this bill was introduced, surprisingly, as a Budget urgency piece of legislation. It\u2019s got absolutely nothing to do with Budget 2020, but here it was, under urgency, as part of the Budget legislation introduced into the Parliament without notice, and, really, the question has to be asked: why? Well, when we tried to find out why, the answer actually goes to coalition mismanagement, and another bill, we were told, actually couldn\u2019t come in, because the coalition couldn\u2019t get agreement from the three coalition parties. So this bill had to be rushed in at the last moment. So, rushed in under urgency, rushed in under the guise of the Budget debate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282d6c445ebad4b17a047d3cc182e16ab\u0022\u003EBarbara Kuriger\u003C/span\u003E: Just like the last one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7c58676613d49ac83afc0412bef689a\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, as my colleague Barbara Kuriger says, just like the last one. And then we had a bizarre situation where the select committee that was chosen by the Government to consider this bill was the Environment Committee\u2014of all committees. Why? Why would that be? Forestry matters in this House have always been the purview of the Primary Production Committee, and that\u2019s where this bill should have gone. But, clearly, the Government didn\u2019t want to have the scrutiny that would have properly been applied at that committee, rather than the rather shoddy, quick, and hasty process that was conducted under the chairmanship of Duncan Webb in the Environment Committee. So this bill is a bit of a shadowy bill because there are so many questions that are left unanswered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ENow, on the face of it, it seems that the initial purpose of the bill would appear\u2014on the face of it\u2014to be sort of quite benign, and the purpose says, \u201Cto establish \u2026 a registration system for log traders and forestry advisers\u201D. Now, we supported the bill at first reading, under urgency, as part of the Budget debate, without having had an opportunity to quickly and fully discuss matters with the sector. But it became very apparent very quickly, as soon as we started having those negotiations and discussions with the sector, that they were implacably opposed to this piece of legislation. The Rt Hon David Carter rightly asks who benefits. \u201CFollow the money, honey.\u201D I think is the correct phrase\u2014\u201CFollow the money, honey.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff926313a3a548f58c751282d6c6500c\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker For the second time in this debate, a National member has made a clear implication that money is motivating the votes of members in this House on this particular bill. I find that offensive, and it should be withdrawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4f5315b634477789ecad2c7a7afd29\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: I heard the previous Speaker before I came to the Chair warn the member who was speaking at the time on that very issue, and I\u2019d ask the Hon Scott Simpson to desist and carry on with your speech. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022047e94a83167442fbe1d360932d74c7d\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Very sensitive!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a290b9f99afe40f1834183acef52073c\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d404e02edc246e4ad0b550c22a9124b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. The Rt Hon David Carter knows better than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df197af8d51045ff90554c5bf12d2ccf\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I was just talking to my friend. I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268af184603484c66b2bd71f4f9572d2a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re absolutely entitled to have friends; you\u2019re absolutely entitled to have a conversation with them. But you\u2019re also well aware of what you just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a26a3c790248bd8df445cafe1f2d62\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Take a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a76f454ce33b4da3b2b21baf59766a1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I did!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225adb40057704ae5a1cf898c73e0ad02\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Was it resolved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a61362007fee4e7a9f683a2c8a3b08b1\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not allowed to talk to my friends. It\u2019s not on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919d257d84004e579c626a4edb7c0ff1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You can talk to both of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e92503fbcdb487ebef22b66c9f6996c\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: So the industry, it turns out, were not consulted on this bill, not consulted on the implementation of it, and not consulted as to why the Government thought it was needed in the first place. The Minister is, effectively, saying\u2014and I tried to glean from his speech earlier in this debate something tangible, something meaningful that we could hang some kind of debating point on, but it was typical of the Hon Shane Jones. It was a speech of fluff and verbiage and rhetoric that actually didn\u2019t say anything. So he spoke for a long period of time without actually giving reasons why this bill should be passed. But, as I understand it, the Minister is, effectively, saying that it\u2019s his way or the highway in terms of this piece of legislation. He\u2019s saying that he wants a change made, and the question has to be: quite why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWell, I think that the Rt Hon David Carter made that very clear in his speech: there are a handful of sawmillers who, for some reason or other, feel that they are being disadvantaged by an open and free market, disadvantaged by foresters being allowed to decide for themselves when they harvest their trees and who they sell them to. Somehow the Minister of Forestry, the Hon Shane Jones, sees that that is some kind of sin and something to be overridden. At the core of this piece of legislation are property rights issues, and the property rights issues go to the foresters who should, in my view and the view of the National Party, be allowed the harvest the logs when they see fit, due to conditions and market situations that they feel are appropriate, and then also to sell those logs either domestically or for export if they wish. The role of Government in that process should be zero, should be nothing. The Forest Owners Association has labelled this new bill as an \u201Cavalanche of clipboards\u201D, and what they mean by that is that it\u2019s a piece of bureaucratic nonsense. It\u2019s going to add cost, add red tape, slow down the process, and it\u2019s not going to give the value that the sector needs, or the certainty that the sector needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to refer to the paper and analysis that was done by none other than the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) on the bill, and they made a number of very pertinent and appropriate points. They made the point, in terms of their summary, that the proposed remedy being proposed by this bill is forced diversion of the current export trade in logs to local processing. And why would that be? It would be, certainly, because local processors are actually, in some cases, inefficient\u2014not all of them; many of them are very efficient. Many of them manage very well, but there are a small number and, as the Rt Hon David Carter pointed out, located primarily in\u2014guess where! Oh, Northland! No surprises there. And what we find is that those processors allege that they have difficulty sourcing logs. So this Minister comes along and says, \u201CWell, I can fix that. We\u2019ll pass some law that will regulate the process, and we\u2019ll get the advisers to actually advise foresters what to do. And if they don\u2019t follow the advice, well then, there will be repercussions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand and overseas experience that the NZIER points out is that, in this case and in others, not just here in New Zealand but overseas as well, heavy-handed industry policy interventions are unlikely to succeed. That\u2019s what they say: \u201CHeavy-handed policy interventions are unlikely to succeed.\u201D They go on to say, \u201COur experience with industry policy schemes show that they are fraught with problems. The administration costs are likely to be high.\u201D That\u2019s the point that the Forestry Owners Association made: that this is a bill that adds cost, doesn\u2019t solve a problem\u2014because there isn\u2019t a problem to solve unless you are one of a handful of log processors who are inefficient and not able to operate in a way that is competition\u2014and NZIER says that there is some confusion about what this bill is trying to address. Well, that\u2019s the point the National Party made in select committee, given the very short period of time that we had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EBut one of the bigger concerns actually relates to the blocking of the request by the National Opposition in select committee to seek Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) advice on the World Trade Organization implications. Now, the Minister dismissively wrote those off as if they were of no importance and no consequence, and here we have again a Government Minister just dismissing\u2014just dismissing\u2014criticism: hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. If you don\u2019t acknowledge it, it can\u2019t be so. It was the select committee chair, in his capacity as chair, who blocked the opportunity to have MFAT officials come and brief the committee on the very important and potentially damaging impacts of the World Trade Organization considerations around this bill. We oppose this bill. We think it\u2019s bad law and it\u2019s unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022 data-id=\u002227a4c57188944e2d8e8f8b0e7db87aaa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022098b8334-57f8-4062-bac6-bfbc3474e88e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227a4c57188944e2d8e8f8b0e7db87aaa\u0022\u003EMICHAEL WOOD (Labour\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Like a stand of mature Pinus radiata, the chair of the Environment Committee, Dr Duncan Webb, cut down every single spurious argument that was put forward by the Opposition in respect of this bill. Nothing that Dr Webb said in that respect was even addressed or refuted by the previous speaker, Hon Scott Simpson. The reality is that this is a bill which brings a registration system and good professional standards of the kind that we have across many other sectors into one of New Zealand\u2019s most important economic sectors. It\u2019s a good bill which will bring a greater level of professionalism and certainty to the sector, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5cf563ca00d4b6d91f4fde48a5135f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5cf563ca00d4b6d91f4fde48a5135f4\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Spoken by a member who didn\u2019t have a clue what he was talking about\u2014a member who was nowhere near the truncated Environment Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221191cbee5385422ebe70ee380502757c\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Usually the case with that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d016de09ee254c559b76844543ca5114\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, well, usually the case with that member\u2014he was nowhere near the truncated select committee which was so poor a piece of process, but is, regrettably, becoming all the more common, as we see in the dying days of this New Zealand First - Greens - Labour coalition Government. The fact that that member had not a copy of the bill anywhere near him when he spoke but merely thought of some words in support of his chair, I think, means that the House and the public of New Zealand who might be watching this debate can safely put that contribution to one side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis side of the House can\u2019t put any contribution off to one side, because the implication of this Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill will have an impact on forestry and logging operation in New Zealand, an impact on an industry that doesn\u2019t support it, wasn\u2019t asking for it\u2014in fact, I\u2019ll go further than that\u2014and have actively opposed the very foundation of this bill, which was brought to the House by Shane Jones. The cornerstone for me is the imposition of the requirements of registration and compliance in an industry that is already heavily regulated by health and safety requirements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWe heard, in the development of the health and safety at work legislation three or four years ago now, the imposition of those safety requirements on the logging and forestry industry, and, in our view, the health and safety at work legislation was the proper way to regulate an industry that is well known to be ranked among the most dangerous industries in New Zealand. To be regulated now under this bill, for no good reason, does two things. It further ties up that industry, and somebody made the quip that what we have now is that in every forest there\u2019ll be a man with a clipboard. Yes, there will. But, actually, there will be a man or a woman in every forest and in every log trader\u2019s office with two clipboards, and if we don\u2019t think that is a bit of overkill on behalf of this Government, well, I can tell the House that indeed it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis is an industry that didn\u2019t want the legislation, actively opposed the legislation. The Government could provide no real reason for the legislation. It has had one of the worst processes in terms of its democratic process through this House. Well, I would\u2019ve said that except that this process is becoming all too common under this New Zealand First - Greens - Labour coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4b09a29-dfd3-42c0-8585-11463bd6077b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228717a54443044afd8fba08b5d85b136d\u0022\u003ERt Hon David Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Not for much longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a92174c118431c90c597520db17ee4\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014thank you to that member\u2014not for much longer. National opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022bebdcef56ab1474b99743a60820164af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bebdcef56ab1474b99743a60820164af\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E Te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e Te Whare. I stand on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand in support of this Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill. The Hon Jacqui Dean will be stoked to know that I do have a copy of the legislation in front of me and on my desk. I was also a member of the Environment Committee alongside the Hon Jacqui Dean and other members in this House in consideration of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI have just been reading through some of the notes as background to this legislation, and I think just another fun fact to add to the mix is that this bill proposes to amend the Forests Act 1949. We\u2019re not often dealing with pieces of legislation or amendments to them that are that old, and with that in mind, I think that the commentary as espoused by the likes of my colleague Michael Wood around the opportunity that this bill presents to professionalise and to update this sector is something that is kind of long overdue. Ultimately, what this does is present a registration system and it also enables greater transparency in the way that the sector operates. There\u2019s a registration system for forestry advisers and for log traders who buy, trade, and export logs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThroughout the 2017 election, I was alongside members and candidates from a range of different political parties, and I also found it interesting that one of the most common examples that we used of the flow of money offshore that we could better capture in our domestic market was around wood processing. Pretty much every single political party spoke about the potential to finish products here in Aotearoa New Zealand, and that we needed to step up and implement processes to do that better. What this legislation does is enable a pathway to get to that so that we can capture greater value here in our domestic economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo a lot of the points as to why this legislation has come to the House today have been thoroughly canvassed, and I guarantee that you\u2019ll hear a rip-roaring speech from the member of the Opposition who\u2019s already preparing to launch up. But the Greens do support this Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s pretty straightforward, pretty common sense, adds some transparency to the market, and also regulation and professionalism. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7d7979d0bc94ebe8fc44a7864269dc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7d7979d0bc94ebe8fc44a7864269dc8\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD (National\u2014East Coast Bays):\u003C/span\u003E A graceful ascent\u2014thank you, Madam Speaker. I rarely launch myself out of my seat\u2014actually, no, I do, probably. That\u2019s probably a fair comment. I would normally always start my speeches by saying I am pleased to take a call, but I have to say I am not pleased to take a call today on the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill. The reason I\u2019m not that keen to speak today, or not happy to take a call, I should say, is that this is a dog of a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start from the very beginning. We got this bill under Budget urgency. It was the second bill introduced under Budget urgency. We\u2019re in the greatest economic crisis of our lifetimes, the like of which we will probably never see again and have not seen before, certainly in our lifetimes, and we have a Budget that\u2019s delivered that is borrowing record amounts of money\u2014tens of billions of dollars\u2014to go some way to solving the crisis we find ourselves in. We would expect to find that the bills that are put forward under Budget urgency would also go, in some way, to helping us through this serious economic crisis that we find ourselves in. And yet what do we find is the second-most important bill under Budget urgency? It\u2019s this bill. It\u2019s the bill to regulate the industry. It\u2019s the regulation of log traders and forestry advisers. It\u2019s very interesting timing, given that, as I said, we\u2019re borrowing tens of billions of dollars, and here\u2019s a bill that is, as Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick just pointed out, a bit of a tidy-up in some legislation that is quite old and regulating an industry. How on earth this ties in with our COVID-19 recovery and Budget urgency, one has to wonder. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAs has previously been mentioned, there are many, many problems with this bill that were pointed out by the submitters, but the main problem was the rush. I\u2019ve already mentioned that it was put under Budget urgency. Why on earth that was the case hasn\u2019t been answered by the Government. There are no reasons given by them whatsoever; not a single speaker has been able to stand up and say why this bill was introduced under Budget urgency. To give submitters six days, or four working days, in reality\u2014four working days to provide a submission\u2014now, it\u2019s really important we all know it\u2019s not just about writing a submission and sending it off. It\u2019s about understanding the consequences of the bill\u2014reading the bill. It\u2019s not a small bill, and it was extremely poorly drafted on top of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAs Duncan Webb and also Shane Jones pointed out, a lot of work\u2014a lot of work\u2014went into this bill at select committee. So you can imagine the poor submitters reading and trying to understand this bill, which was hugely complicated, which in its purpose says things like it\u2019s to \u201Csupport the continuous, predictable, and long-term supply of timber\u201D, and then has all these regulation-making powers at the end. The poor submitters didn\u2019t know what that meant, and they all assumed that that would mean that the logs that they were producing would have price fixes on them, that they would be forced to supply the domestic market and not the export market, and that the choice would be taken off them. So you can imagine the number of submitters that were very upset by this bill. They had to read what was a bit of a mess of a bill, get their head around it, and then submit in such a short time frame for absolutely no reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to read out some of the comments from the submitters in a moment, but if you go back and read the regulatory impact assessment (RIA), they also make these points. They acknowledge that the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) had not been able to undertake a full formal public consultation process, that there should have been a longitudinal study, and that that would have been a much better process. They continue right throughout the report in saying that it would have been preferable to define the magnitude of the problem for growers and to explore the full nature of the issue. They accept that this longitudinal study would have been preferable. This is a theme that is right throughout the RIA, and it was a theme that was carried on with the submitters as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWithout fail, every single one we saw, first off the bat, complained about the fact that they had no time to understand the bill and no time to get a submission in. They felt rushed. They were aggrieved, they were angry, and they were confused. We put the question to them, time after time, with each submitter: did you know this bill was coming? Were you consulted on this before it came? And, without exception, they said they had no idea. They were blindsided by this bill. And then the indignity of only having a few days to read it, understand it, get a submission in, and come and talk to the select committee\u2014it\u2019s an appalling process. You can just imagine, if the shoe were on the other foot, the conniption that the Green Party members would be having if the National Government were undertaking such a process for a bill under Budget urgency, when it can\u2019t be explained why it\u2019s under urgency. They would be hitting the roof. But here they are saying, \u201CIt\u2019s a perfect process. No problem, we\u2019re all happy. Let\u2019s pass it through.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe reality is almost every single one of its submitters that we saw was opposed to the bill. There were 650 who managed to put in a submission. That just shows you how incensed they were with this bill that there were 650, only given six days, who managed to get their submissions in. That\u2019s how incensed they were, and 640 of them were opposed to the bill. And they weren\u2019t just mildly opposed, were they, Mr Simpson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac18c21c093a4333b1e5ead205c5ef1b\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: They were strongly opposed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3111db70cef43c38ba6fc69b311f69e\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: They were strongly opposed. In fact, the language in some of those submissions was very strong. It was very strong about the intentions of the Hon Shane Jones. They called into question many things, and we sat there and had to agree with them, because we also were confused about the speed of the bill and why it was a rushed process. We\u2019d read the RIA. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be9865da0964616992e50b520c0066a\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Never adequately explained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f59413aefc949dd916e5b801e64c9ff\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Nope, never explained. It was very interesting, actually, reading the RIA, because it also points out that the MPI commissioned Forme Consulting Group and Scion in early 2019 to examine the log-supply constraints that were emerging in\u2014guess where! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0f38be9dc364ec08782f5a53628c21d\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a318bcb8e3d4bae93cff13b8f5b00e0\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Guess\u2014guess, Mr van de Molen. In Northland. That\u2019s where they undertook their research. So the overwhelming evidence that we saw in select committee\u2014it didn\u2019t matter who we were speaking to. Growers, processors, sawmills\u2014no matter who we were speaking to, they were saying, \u201CThis is not an issue where we\u2019re from. There\u2019s no issue with supply in our region. There\u2019s no issue that we can see with dodgy advisers. We don\u2019t understand the need for the bill.\u201D And it didn\u2019t matter which submitter we had: they all said the same thing. And it makes a lot of sense, when you look at the RIA and you understand some of the background to the bill, that the problem only seems to exist in one place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c82f70503bc94b25bf357426c104ada0\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Where?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d34be007274848779dcebda98e94bffc\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: In Northland. And it\u2019s just coincidental! Well, it\u2019s not coincidental, but the member whose name the bill is in, the Hon Shane Jones, is from\u2014guess where! Northland. So we are suspicious of the intentions of this bill, we have to say, because there wasn\u2019t a single submitter anywhere else in the country who said there\u2019s a problem with supply. They all, in fact, said, \u201CWell, you know what, there are some sawmills that aren\u2019t efficient that need to come up to modern standards.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f4e813826544e39b5c7b43f27c8e9a9\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Haven\u2019t invested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220231c099827747cc8b477a267ba84555\u0022\u003EERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CThey haven\u2019t invested. They don\u2019t talk to the growers enough.\u201D But this isn\u2019t a problem such that we need to tar the whole country with the same brush because of a couple of sawmills in that member\u2019s electorate that he\u2019s trying to win. It doesn\u2019t make any sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMany submitters called this bill a Trojan Horse that had other recommendations that were not in the title of the bill. They were concerned with what the problem was to solve. They said there would be increased costs to the sector. It\u2019s a sector that has very low returns anyway\u2014we\u2019re talking 5 percent\u2014and this is a bill that is going to increase costs and red tape and add extra processes that aren\u2019t required. Many people said that there is already a regime in place, a voluntary regime where you can go and get registered. And if you want to use a registered person\u2014and you should use a registered person\u2014well then, you can already find one. There is no problem to solve. They also asked why the bill was under urgency. As I mentioned, they said that they were rushed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat the chair of the Environment Committee, Mr Duncan Webb, said, which was that this whole issue around the World Trade Organization potential breaches was only cooked up by the National Party, is rubbish. The reason it came to our attention is that submitters brought it to our attention, and it was never properly addressed. MPI said, \u201CWe don\u2019t think there\u2019s a problem\u201D, and Duncan Webb, obviously, went away and did his own research. Well, good on him. But, I tell you what, we asked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) to come to our select committee. I put the motion. We were about to deliberate that day. In fact, we ended up deliberating on Monday. So we had the time to bring MFAT in. We had time. We could have brought them in on Monday before we deliberated, and he blocked that\u2014well, we put it to a vote, and that was voted down. He didn\u2019t want them to come in. Now, why that is, I have no idea. If he was confident that there were no breaches because of his own research, well, there was no reason not to bring in MFAT to put our minds at rest. It wasn\u2019t the National Party that brought that up; it was submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis is a rushed bill. It\u2019s a bad bill. There are reasons that this bill has been brought to the House that we will never know, perhaps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3c410ba02d64d2995398f149fbcf367\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3c410ba02d64d2995398f149fbcf367\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: The following call is a split call. I call Dr Liz Craig.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u0022385d5492861d4ceb90606e1c8f68cd04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022385d5492861d4ceb90606e1c8f68cd04\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on this bill. Basically, I sat on the Environment Committee, and it was a good example of listening to submitters. As a result, we\u2019ve made a number of changes which have strengthened this bill. I want to just take you through, quickly, a couple of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI think the first one has already been traversed well in the House, but there were a number of people who raised the issues about our compliance with international trade obligations. As my colleague Duncan Webb has indicated, on this side of the House we were quite satisfied that this was not the case. But what we did do is put an avoidance of doubt clause into the bill, around when you\u2019re making rules for forestry practice standards, that these rules may not impose any condition that is properly the matter of a commercial agreement between parties\u2014so just making it very clear that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EWe also made another couple of changes around, basically, making sure that small-scale log traders, Christmas tree operators, and small-scale firewood operators were exempt if they were dealing with less than 2,000 cubic metres per year and also looking at some of the ability of the forestry authority to have delegated powers to make rules looking for greater ministerial oversight. So, in a number of places, we have made changes which insert \u201Con recommendation of the Minister\u201D so that the Minister has got oversight over those rule-making powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo we are happy. We\u2019ve made good changes to the bill, strengthened the bill. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae4372204fd04e9989788c5d4662cb7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae4372204fd04e9989788c5d4662cb7f\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s amazing to think that we\u2019re here talking about this bill, a bill that was not asked for by the industry, that the industry had no idea was actually coming, and, now that it has come, the industry is strongly opposing. But nevertheless, we heard from the Green Party that this was an important opportunity to professionalise the industry, which is actually code for \u201Cbring in Government control and regulate the bejesus out of it\u201D, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re seeing come through in this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThere is no need for this. There was a total lack of consultation. The regulation impact will actually be far reaching and impose unnecessary compliance costs and issues arising out of that. It requires all scientists, all consultants\u2014basically, anyone involved in the industry; machine operators, for example\u2014they\u2019ll all have to be registered as a result of this as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s been poorly thought through, and that\u2019s no surprise when we look at the process it\u2019s followed, where it\u2019s been rushed through the first reading in Budget urgency, bizarrely; a very truncated select committee process, and we\u2019ve heard about that from Erica Stanford\u2014and actually, I thought it was really indicative of the high level of feeling, that number of submitters being able to get themselves in order to make a submission on this in a very short manner. An overwhelming opposition to it shows that it was not wanted. I guess, as reflected through the fact there was no consultation, if those people involved in the industry, those key people at the coalface, had actually been approached, then it would have been very clear to the Minister there was not widespread support for this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EThat select committee process is something we\u2019ve seen a disappointing trend of from this Government, and it goes, to me, to the fundamental issue, which is around the Government\u2019s arrogance that they know best for all of these industries. \u201CStuff what the industry themselves have to say about it; the Government knows best.\u201D That seems to be the ethos on the other side of the House, and we\u2019re seeing, time after time, bills are rushed through the process unnecessarily, and as a result we end up with something that does not align with what industry wants. Often we end up with errors, and we\u2019ve seen a litany of those over the last few weeks, especially yesterday and last week, in terms of some of the legislation that\u2019s been passed through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns that I had around this particular select committee process as well was the fact that Government MPs opposed bringing in Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials to give a detailed insight of the potential impact this has on our trading agreements through the World Trade Organization. That\u2019s a really important step. We are a trading nation. We rely heavily on those international agreements. For the Government to oppose getting that sort of advice is outrageous. I cannot understand their position on that, and it\u2019s simply unacceptable. The industry deserves that sort of representation, especially in a truncated process like this, and we simply haven\u2019t seen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EEffectively, this bill is just enabling the Government to create regulations to control where and when growers supply the market, and that could, potentially, have impacts on our trade agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c21deba1395040d0af5841ca8f9f1c22\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Read the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9eec84599440a6af0e09c140d4bd34\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: And the member on the other side of the House might speak glibly about that, but that is a serious consideration for us from a trading perspective. The compulsory registration\u2014there are major issues within this, and we\u2019ve seen that highlighted by submitters throughout the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EYet again, it seems that they have gone off half-cocked on a piece of legislation at the whim of Mr Jones, who is actively trying to win a seat up North, where there are forestry representatives\u2014the forestry industry is an important part of it. It\u2019s a half-cocked piece of legislation that doesn\u2019t meet the actual needs\u2014once again, trying to impose something unnecessary. We saw that, what was it, 12 months or so ago, where he was trying to roll-out a large planting plan of pines up there and it fell flat on its face and they ended up mulching all those seedlings into the ground\u2014now, just another example of the Government trying to go in thinking they know best, and failing miserably. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo I would suggest that the actual only value in this bill, because it\u2019s been so strongly opposed by the industry, is the pieces of paper that it\u2019s actually written on, coming from those trees. So we do not support it. We cannot commend this sort of legislative process. It is simply disrespectful to the industry. It does not meet their needs, and so we oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225e897608ccff42edb59874ade8c62c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e897608ccff42edb59874ade8c62c8d\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealanders, wherever they drive, whether they\u2019re going past wharves today, they\u2019ll see great logs\u2014piles of logs\u2014on their local wharf. If they drive around New Zealand, they\u2019ll see logging trucks. It will come as a huge surprise to them that there is no regulation around that. There are some 14,000 to 15,000 small-forest owners who\u2019ll contribute 40 percent of the annual harvest this decade, up from 14 percent. This is a moving industry. It does need regulation, and this is very good law. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4921fa5d49a40c6863e21705bc30ea9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4921fa5d49a40c6863e21705bc30ea9\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Mr Speaker, what a shocking speech that was. I\u2019m not even sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3debb7871ab4027b5e22e9ae8679202\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: You can do \u201CMadam Speaker\u201D, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f244433b455b4e13951a82db08c5a3bd\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe716095f44c40189caea3c7a913ea01\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fa6b870db9c494eacef0d16518d161d\u0022\u003EHon NATHAN GUY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. I\u2019m not even sure that that member even read the bill. He was obviously working off the talking points that had been given to Labour MPs. It\u2019s really interesting to hear, this morning, that Government members are taking very short calls on this bill, and I\u2019m not sure why. I think it\u2019s because they\u2019re quite embarrassed to be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, National have real concerns about process, about World Trade Organization (WTO) potential, implications, about the number of submitters that we had opposed to it, and all of the Zoom sessions that we had to have through a recess period is not ideal. It\u2019s not good democracy. If the Government was serious about this bill and supporting the Minister, you would have thought that they would have wanted to have a fair and balanced select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s just recap. This was part of an urgency motion following Budget 2020 on 14\u00A0May. Then the Environment Committee\u2014and I heard the Rt Hon David Carter give a very good speech earlier on, saying why on earth would it have been instructed to go to the Environment Committee when really this bill should have been heard, like all other forestry bills, by the Primary Production Committee. So that\u2019s the first question mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe second one was that the clerk then had to open up submissions on 15 May. Would you believe; they closed at midnight, 21 May! Six days to allow one of our biggest export sectors to be able to submit on this bill. It went through a weekend. Isn\u2019t that an atrocious process for this Parliament? It\u2019s no wonder heads are down on the Government benches when I say that. Six days for submissions! There were 640 submissions received; only 11 opposed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhy on earth would the Government want to be forcing this bill through now ahead of the election? There\u2019s been very good questions raised by this side of the House this morning, but none of those questions have been answered by the Government benches. And for the Minister to come in and imply that all foresters\u2014whether they are small-block owners, whether they\u2019re large exporters\u2014are cowboys is an insult. It\u2019s a bit like when Shane Jones stood out here on the forecourt of Parliament addressing thousands of farmers that marched through the streets of Wellington worried about forestry hollowing out rural communities. What does Shane Jones say to those people? \u201CYou\u2019re a bunch of rednecks.\u201D Actually, he didn\u2019t have the guts to say that on the steps of Parliament; he said that afterwards to a little media scrum. So for Shane Jones to carry on with his rhetoric and say that pretty much the forestry industry is full of cowboys is a real insult. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EWhat this, basically, does is set up the framework for the Minister to be able to tinker, through regulations, to restrict logs being exported, to support domestic supply. Now, in my mind, that\u2019s going back to the 1970s or 1980s where the Government is meddling in a free market. We don\u2019t agree. That doesn\u2019t sit comfortably with us on this side of the House and that didn\u2019t sit comfortably with those hundreds of submitters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThe other aspect that is really fascinating. Remember, prior to this bill the Minister was out there sort of spruiking the industry, that he wanted to bring in a tax on raw log exports. So what happened is he got some very short and sharp advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) and Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) and a lot of it was redacted when it went out, as part of this process, to submitters. What it basically said is if you put\u2014not you, Madam Speaker, but if the Minister or the Government puts a tax on raw logs, they\u2019ll be hauled in front of the WTO. So the Minister backed away from that, talked to his officials, and he thought: how, actually, can I restrict export supply to support and prop up domestic mills? So this is the halfway house, this bill. This sets up the framework to allow the Minister to set the regulations to restrict supply through export logs to benefit those domestic mills. I have some real concerns about that, because in my mind, that will mean that the New Zealand Government will be hauled in front of the WTO. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ENow, I heard Vangelis Vitalis, who is one of our best trade negotiators, currently working at MFAT, highly ranked, highly regarded around the world. I heard him give an address at the meat sector conference in May 2018\u2014this is way before COVID. He said it\u2019s been the worst rise in trade protectionism in 2018 in 23 years. Let\u2019s fast forward that now. COVID\u2019s upon the world. There\u2019s more protectionism happening around the world that\u2019s going to make it way more difficult for our exporters to actually be match fit and compete against other countries. So there\u2019s a high level of uncertainty amongst the forestry sector that this bill has the potential to be hauled in front of the WTO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EJust in that example alone, there were 400 new protection measures in the month of May 2018. There\u2019s hundreds more. There\u2019s thousands more that we are now having to deal with. Now, the cost for the wider agriculture sector from these non-tariff barriers is $6 billion a year. It\u2019s higher than that now. That\u2019s what the industry is facing. Now, the National Government brought in the free-trade agreement with Korea. Ninety percent of forestry exports are tariff-free. The 10 percent outside of that are going to be eliminated over the next nine years. That\u2019s a fantastic free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EThis one is going to put sand in the cogs and slow down an open New Zealand economy that we rely on. We\u2019re going to rely on our exports more than ever. Our forestry exports, our dairy exports, our meat exports, our horticulture exports are going to help to pull the plough for the New Zealand Government to get the debt down and get our economy growing again. This bill is not going to help that. It\u2019s not going to help that one iota.   \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about\u2014I was the one that raised it in the select committee and said, let\u2019s get MFAT officials in, and the chair said, \u201COh no. No\u2014no.\u201D Admittedly, I raised it on the last day that we were deliberating. So the chair said, \u201CNo. Not good due process.\u201D, and I sort of took that on the chin. But I said to the chair and the rest of the committee, \u201CWhy can\u2019t we get MFAT in after the bill\u2019s been deliberated on?\u201D That\u2019s fair enough, in my mind. That was fair enough in the National Party\u2019s approach on our side of the committee\u2014\u201CLet\u2019s get MFAT in to understand what they think about this bill.\u201D We were blocked. We were blocked every step of the way. We had advice from MPI trade, and I know MPI trade officials; they\u2019re very good. But we didn\u2019t hear from MFAT trade officials, who I think would have given us a different view and their concerns about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got a lot of questions. If the Government wants to carry on pushing this through, we\u2019ll have hundreds of questions that we\u2019re going to put to the Minister in the chair. And, actually, the last period of time, where it\u2019s been good interaction with the Ministers in the chair and the Opposition, I commend. So I\u2019m hopeful that we\u2019ll have a good engagement if the Government wants to forge ahead in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002223de6bd3-0482-495d-88f4-7cc3f75d8442\u0022\u003EJust in the last few seconds I have, National doesn\u2019t support this bill. We\u2019ve got grave concerns about it. It was interesting to hear the Minister say that after the election it\u2019s likely that politicians will want to restrict the ability of forest investors to expand their holdings into productive farmland. That\u2019s a nod that Shane Jones and Damien O\u2019Connor and James Shaw are getting a huge amount of pressure. I welcome that debate. Actually, we should be having it now, not after the election. It will come up in the election campaign. We want to make sure that farmers and foresters get a fair go, and this bill does nothing to help them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea8cbd65ecba401ba6a12ad61529d60f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea8cbd65ecba401ba6a12ad61529d60f\u0022\u003EJAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s great to be able to stand and speak in support of a bill that has flow-on benefits for our regional economies, including increased employment opportunities. And I would actually like to say congratulations to the Environment Committee for the work that they did on this bill, because having looked at the original bill and the bill that\u2019s come back to the House now, I\u2019m just amazed at the work that they\u2019ve done. It\u2019s a great bill, and I have no hesitation in commending it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments recommended by the Environment Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d00a1f7c47ec4343a1eb844523cb5587\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002281365e675a464ca984346e08da41a80f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2e807cac50f4e6db11f04dc517596d1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecba2035b15d47c394ad388a0a269044\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002236b43da8be254e278ffbc0aa4ff05381\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00226fae353b8f674f4f968745ae496c509f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fae353b8f674f4f968745ae496c509f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E So this is, of course, the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill, and one of the questions that I\u2019d like the Minister to just address in this committee stage for those that are listening is the aspect around non-qualifying partners. I think that is the area, as local members of Parliament, that we have probably received the most questions on. So I would ask that the Minister start by answering questions around the non-qualifying partners and why this decision was made, and also any transitional provisions, given that this legislation was originally meant to come in on 1 July: what does it mean for those who may have been planning for that provision to be in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022319098e9d29541cc8af496953788d035\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022319098e9d29541cc8af496953788d035\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, Madam Chair, I apologise for that delay, but of course, with this new system that we\u2019re trialling, it\u2019s not always clear whether the Minister will be responding straight away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI too was going to ask the question that Hon Louise Upston has just made. I would also ask the Minister to give us a little bit more detail on the practical impact of removing the spousal deduction. When I spoke in the second reading of this bill last week I mentioned that this was the issue that probably as constituent MPs is most frequently raised with us. I also made the point that in my constituency of Hamilton West I have found that it\u2019s particularly Dutch constituents who have brought this issue to my attention over a long period of time. I\u2019m not an expert on the specific arrangements of pensions in Holland, but clearly it is something that has particularly rankled them. It\u2019s good to see Marja Lubeck here because she might also be able to take a call and give us a little bit more detail, and I genuinely would welcome that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut I think for those who are watching, who may not even understand what the spousal deduction refers to, it\u2019s often easiest to understand when a specific example is given. Essentially, it will be dealing with a longstanding grievance that many have felt when, perhaps, they\u2019ve entered into a second or third relationship with a New Zealander but their qualifying pension from overseas is deducted in order to ensure that they\u2019re not receiving what was previously seen as, perhaps, a little bit of a windfall or an unfair advantage over those who are New Zealanders. And so, as I say, I\u2019d be interested to hear from anyone who can give a little bit more of an illustration about the Dutch situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut it is worth making the point that this was work that initially commenced under the previous National Government, and I\u2019m pleased to see that the current Government has picked it up. It did receive widespread support, both at its first reading\u2014I wasn\u2019t on the select committee, unfortunately, at the time that submissions were heard, but I know that there were quite a number of submitters, most of whom, I understand, spoke very strongly in favour of the spousal deduction issue. So it would be helpful in the committee of the whole House stage if the Minister could just help tease out a little bit about the practical implications of that, what it will mean for people, maybe giving us a few international examples; so there is that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I say, I\u2019d be keen to hear the Minister\u2019s answer to the question that was asked a moment ago. There was also concern from some submitters about the unfairness of what is being proposed with the non-qualified partners\u2019 provision. So this would be the opportunity, I think, for the Minister, if she feels that she can give a satisfactory answer to that, to explain to those submitters and to anybody who\u2019s listening what the basis for that is. I would welcome an opportunity if the Minister chooses to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022 data-id=\u00229b336bf8b1f1442db20d60bccb5532c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a8cab3e3-b023-4ce7-9f4b-2c4137029057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b336bf8b1f1442db20d60bccb5532c5\u0022\u003EKIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa9721cc9b3a49108f9baf9865dc70ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa9721cc9b3a49108f9baf9865dc70ca\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m happy to make a contribution to this part of the committee stage of this New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like the Minister in the chair, Carmel Sepuloni, just to echo in terms of some clarification around the non-qualifying partners. I note that of the 50 submissions, in total, to this bill, 15 of the submissions commented on this particular part of the bill\u2014the non-qualifying partners. One submitter supported this particular amendment\u2014that was from Age Concern\u2014and the remainder of those 15 did oppose this part. Largely, the reasons given were due to the timing, due to the adequacy of alternative support, and also due to the availability of information about the changes. It was acknowledged, during the select committee, that definitely the information was really readily not accessible and it was very hard to know what you\u2019re looking for in that part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to note, in terms of the rate structure, the single rate versus the partners, there was an acknowledgment, of course, of the necessity to ensure that you are paying a higher rate to single superannuitants, but I did note also during the select committee that it came to my knowledge that a disproportionate number of seniors who receive the single rate are M\u0101ori or Pasifika. I was almost wondering if you could elaborate on any of that information there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003EAlso what came through was that in terms of the spousal deduction\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275a05f96-2474-4c90-a6ea-cf7b5798e03e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4f8cd646ea4455a9f78bb10e5242232\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Ms Loheni. I wonder if you could just ensure that your comments are addressing Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022675fe95f39304c058d5b6b1cedf81134\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Also, just in terms of the spousal deduction, the numbers given were that it would affect approximately 450 superannuitants for the 2022-23 period. I just want to clarify if that number is correct\u2014the number that will be affected by the spousal deduction on that particular amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002295a7365887414e37850afa49274db1af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295a7365887414e37850afa49274db1af\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll speak broadly to Part 1, and, hopefully, it responds to some of Opposition members\u2019 questions. But I won\u2019t speak to the spousal deduction issue because that\u2019s not covered in Part 1. That\u2019s in Part 3, I think, of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMost of the policy changes in the bill are dealt with at least in part by Part 1, which includes all the amendments to the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001. As such, Part 1 largely only deals with New Zealand superannuation. We move into the veterans pension in Part 2. The changes in this part are: the closure of the non-qualified partner provision with grandparenting of existing non-qualifying partners, expanding eligibility to the living alone rate to single people in self-contained mobile homes, providing more equitable treatment between missionaries and secular charitable volunteers, correcting a drafting error affecting people needing to count time paying New Zealand tax while overseas as residents, updating the calculation of New Zealand super rates to match the current practice, and removing the special disability allowance from the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMost of these changes have an equivalent in Part 2, which amends the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014 to ensure that changes also apply to the veterans pension, so I won\u2019t talk about the veterans pension whilst we\u2019re on Part 1. A signpost has been included near the beginning of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act 2001 to indicate its relationship with Social Security Act 2018. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThere were some questions asked about the non-qualifying partner provisions in this particular bill. A superannuitant can chose to include their non-qualifying partner in their rate of New Zealand super. If they do, the couple receive an amount that is at most around $30 less per week than the amount for a couple who both qualify, but this amount is subject to an income test. Clause 11 removes the option for a superannuitant to elect to include their non-qualifying partner in their rate of New Zealand super from the commencement date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s accompanied by a provision to continue existing elections to receive that rate, so that people who are already included as a non-qualifying partner don\u2019t lose this rate unless their circumstances change. This is found in new sections 7 to 10 of Schedule 1AA of the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act, inserted by clause 21 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClause 17 makes a complementary amendment. This has been made by the select committee to allow main beneficiaries or veterans pension recipients to receive the equivalent of a single rate if they have a superannuitant partner who receives a lower rate while hospitalised for more than 13 weeks. A large number of technical amendments accompany the closure of the non-qualifying partner provision, such as moving the grandparented rate to a separate part of Schedule 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think what was really heartening with this bill going through the different processes in Parliament was that the Social Services and Community Committee I think, were generally in support of these provisions and have worked through really well the detail. So can I thank all of the select committee members for their work on this bill. Can I say that with the non-qualifying partner provision there seemed to be shared agreement that, actually, that was brought into play at a time that was quite different from now, a time when there was an expectation that perhaps the female partner in the relationship would be younger than the male partner in the relationship, that the male partner in the relationship would be the breadwinner, and therefore the younger female would be reliant on the working income of that male partner and then when that person was to retire, of course, on their superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo I think that really was the premise, and I think we\u2019ve got a shared understanding of why that particular provision was brought in at the time. Times have certainly changed, and I\u2019m glad that we have seen shared agreement across the House that, actually, it is no longer required. However, we also agree that it would be unfair to take it away for those who are currently accessing that particular provision. Hence, why the decision has also been made to grandparent that for those who are currently receiving it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u002233b50dcbd0c54eb7b75cbd15be4fd95e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233b50dcbd0c54eb7b75cbd15be4fd95e\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to give the Government an assurance that it\u2019s not the National Party\u2019s intention to draw out discussion on this particular matter unnecessarily. We probably see that we can deal with the committee stage reasonably quickly. However, I was appalled when the Government whip sought to take a closure motion a short time ago without even having had a single contribution from the Minister or any Government member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI make that point because I think it is very serious. We need to remind everybody who\u2019s listening that we\u2019re dealing with this bill under urgency. I don\u2019t think it is an urgent matter; it\u2019s certainly a significant matter, and we support it, particularly for those who are going to benefit from its provisions. But when the House is considering a matter under urgency, it is surely doubly important for the Government to engage properly in the discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EAs I say, we\u2019re not looking to drag it out unnecessarily. And I\u2019m surprised, actually, that the Government didn\u2019t seek to consider the entire bill as one question; that would have dealt with it perhaps a bit more quickly. And I do take on board the fact that I raised the spousal deduction and possibly should have waited for Part 3. So I apologise for that, but with respect to the Minister, she\u2019s just made a five-minute contribution in which she\u2019s probably spent four minutes and 45 seconds literally just going through, clause by clause, what is in the bill when my colleague the Hon Louise Upston and I had actually asked questions so she could explain what her thinking was\u2014in particular, in responding to those submitters who had raised queries of unfairness. She may feel that she touched on it in the last five seconds, literally, of that contribution, but I don\u2019t think that she gave considerable engagement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI would invite her to just, in particular, respond to the question, therefore, that the Hon Louise Upston raised. I hope she will do that, and if the Government wish to consider the rest of the bill as one question, I am sure that the National Party would have no objection to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022915ddc2df46c40f6b4114ef3c979664a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022915ddc2df46c40f6b4114ef3c979664a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll respond to a couple of questions raised by the member Tim Macindoe. Just issues about why this particular piece of legislation would be brought through in urgency\u2014why not, actually? As has been mentioned by the Opposition, and we agree, there are some changes in here that have been long awaited by a group of New Zealanders. There\u2019s agreement across the House on this. New Zealanders expect us to move through legislative changes at pace where we can. So I think that we\u2019d all agree that this is one of the least controversial pieces of legislation that will come through urgency, and why would we not do that for those that are affected, particularly when there\u2019s agreement and it\u2019s not controversial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe question about why I went through clause by clause at the beginning\u2014I only did that because there were a couple of speeches that went before me that were touching on elements of the bill that are not in Part 1, so I thought it was important just to provide a brief overview of what actually is in Part 1. I\u2019m quite content going through the bill by parts, because, actually, there are distinct differences. It allows us to speak to the specific parts of the bill, which I think are really important, rather than just have a broad, general discussion about the merits of getting rid of the non-qualifying partner provision, changing the spousal deduction policy, and a range of other things. I think we can do that adequately through the different parts if we debate it in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMy colleague did do a closure motion\u2014that surprised me, too. But I\u2019m quite happy to continue this debate where there are points to be made that are different and where there is a possibility, through this debate, that we might improve things. I thought I did respond to the honourable member Louise Upston\u2019s questions, and if I haven\u2019t, then perhaps let me know how, because I covered off what was happening with the non-qualifying partner provision, why we were grandparenting it, and why we were getting rid of it. So if there are questions that were not answered, then I\u2019m more than happy to take those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6a4751d396e40e48fc0f24cc84e8995\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6a4751d396e40e48fc0f24cc84e8995\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to move to another part of Part 1, which is around absence from New Zealand. Many people appreciated the change in the bill around those who were, in clause 9, carrying out missionary work, to be counted as if the person was ordinarily resident in New Zealand. A couple of the submitters, including Age Concern, who do great work in our communities, questioned why that wasn\u2019t extended to secular organisations. So I\u2019d like the Minister just to talk a little bit through clause 9 and the changes in clause 9 and why they weren\u2019t extended to secular organisations that were working overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c49adb550716442a85730f51bf1746b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c49adb550716442a85730f51bf1746b8\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll speak to clauses 8 to 10, which had been put in place to provide more equitable treatment between missionaries and secular charitable volunteers, and also fix a drafting error. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EPeople who serve overseas as missionaries have a broad provision allowing them to have periods of missionary service counted towards their New Zealand superannuation residence requirements, to which there is no equivalent for people who volunteer overseas for secular charitable organisations, other than the Voluntary Service Abroad. Clause 8 allows someone who volunteered overseas for an entity that is, or is affiliated with, a registered New Zealand charity, to use that time toward the New Zealand superannuation residence requirements, so long as they remained ordinarily resident in New Zealand. So the fact that they are registered New Zealand charities, I think, shows that we\u2019re not precluding secular organisations from being able to qualify here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClause 9 amends the missionary provision to align better with the new approach for secular volunteers. People will need to carry out that missionary work for a New Zealand charitable entity affiliated with a religious body for it to count toward the requirements. But the current broader provision will apply if they begin their absence before the commencement date due to a savings provision in clause 5 of Schedule 1AA of the actual Act, inserted by clause 21 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClause 10 fixes a drafting error, with the rewrite of social security legislation, so that periods when a person or their partner was employed outside New Zealand and made income tax payments to New Zealand count toward the resident requirements for New Zealand superannuation. There is an accompanying validation provision in section 6 of Schedule 1AA of the Act, inserted by clause 21 of the bill. The residence qualification for veterans pension depends on the Act, so clauses 8 to 10 follow through to the veterans pension. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think there\u2019s much more that I can say that will add value to the answer that I\u2019ve given for the member Louise Upston, but, hopefully, the fact that I\u2019ve clarified that it\u2019s clauses 8 to 10 that provide more equitable treatment, actually, between missionaries and secular charitable volunteers helps to respond to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u00221e49cd3ed95247069d8dd44c895ddc03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e49cd3ed95247069d8dd44c895ddc03\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E In my previous contribution, I raised concern with the fact that this matter was being dealt with under urgency. In her reply, the Minister, the Hon Carmel Sepuloni, posed a question to us, and, effectively, it was: why not? She then went on to say, well, this is a significant matter; therefore, let\u2019s deal with it under urgency. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWell, my answer to that is that this is becoming an abuse of the parliamentary process. All Governments, of whichever stripe, from time to time use urgency, but they should not be using it for run-of-the-mill legislation which should have been dealt with in the proper way, particularly when\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3cb4917e0cb4fb796c0b6f94a0299b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I will comment on that. The House has agreed to urgency. We\u2019re now in the committee stage on a bill that has been to select committee. The member should, actually, under the new rules, speak to Part 1 of the bill, not to a disagreement that he has to part of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdd0a0f726054756b9dcfe90e095bed3\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I was seeking to answer the Minister\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713e3dae902848269a3693c257fb41ce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acfb683e5ec4c9f94446f8b1d6a21b6\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll leave it at that. I wanted to answer the Minister\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u00226bdd3d0f89ed4424b3756c8514f23a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bdd3d0f89ed4424b3756c8514f23a7f\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E I just, really, want to ask the Minister a supplementary on the Hon Louise Upston\u2019s question around eligible charitable work, just asking if workers like civil defence workers who might go overseas and work in areas of natural disaster in the Pacific\u2014I don\u2019t believe that they are seen as a charity\u2014would they be considered in particular on that part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f11f28db4fec4702bff1e71a6c4994e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f11f28db4fec4702bff1e71a6c4994e2\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Civil Defence):\u003C/span\u003E I can answer that part of the question. It\u2019s no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2cab3566fb74f6b9b4a831299a6face\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2cab3566fb74f6b9b4a831299a6face\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002247bf7dd97d694740b08ecde5ca9f998b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247bf7dd97d694740b08ecde5ca9f998b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any member that wants to take a call? No? I\u2019ll go straight to the question, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 508 in the name of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229062f18c4ef5446894f2c5a33a9017e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000267\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222922f5ecdfb34b8a8b7eec84a1c99ec3\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00220762fa676f7b414b9de1a51958317841\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220762fa676f7b414b9de1a51958317841\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E I think perhaps this time I\u2019ll take a different tack and I will start out by explaining what Part 2 does. So Part 2 extends several of the policy changes applied to New Zealand superannuation by Part 1 to the veteran\u2019s pension. These changes are the closure of the non-qualifying partner provision, with grandparenting of existing non-qualifying partners; expanding eligibility to single people in self-contained mobile homes; updating the calculation of the veterans pension rates to match the current practice; and a signpost has been included near the beginning of Part 6 of the Veterans\u2019 Support Act to indicate its relationship with the Social Security Act as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClause 29 closes the option for a veterans pension to include their non-qualifying partner. Accompanying the change in Part 1, clause 29 removes the election that allows a veterans pensioner to include their non-qualifying partner in their rate of veterans pension from the commencement date. People who are already included, including their non-qualifying partner in their rate, at that point, have their entitlement to receive that rate continued by new Part 5 in Schedule 1, as inserted by clause 32. Many of the details about this grandparenting provision are linked to the equivalent provision in the actual Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClauses 24 and 26 remove an obsolete rate that applied to people who included a non-qualifying partner before October 1991. Clause 25 provides single people living alone in mobile homes with access to the single living alone rate to veterans pension. Mirroring the change to Part 1, clause 25 amends the definition of living alone for the veterans pension so that people can receive the living alone rate (LAR) while living alone in a self-contained mobile home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EClause 31 allows new types of accommodation where someone can receive the LAR to be set out in regulations. Clause 27 updates the calculation of veterans pension rates to match current practice. Clause 27 requires that the amount of veterans pension of a couple who both qualify must be no less than 66 percent of the net average ordinary time weekly wage, reflecting what has been a longstanding practice. Supplementary Order Paper 508 also amends a reference to the commencement date, so Supplementary Order Paper 508 updates a reference to the commencement date in clause 32 to 9\u00A0 November 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad77989b8f2442dbb63e6acc93272579\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad77989b8f2442dbb63e6acc93272579\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I specifically want to raise a query with the Minister for Social Development on her recent Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) around the commencement date. As has been stated in the House, the National Opposition are supporting the legislation, but we actually didn\u2019t support the Minister\u2019s SOP to delay the start of this. I think, if we look through the submissions, they were, by and large, in favour of the changes that were made. So my question, very directly, is: why the delay, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229dddd2bedcf848d1a3ef4ec66f54f72c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dddd2bedcf848d1a3ef4ec66f54f72c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: I think that debate comes up in clause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b807f3f69e347c391dd2c5d814272e2\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister referred to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285688fda5a334d88b6ef5453b81a2991\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t mind answering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210895bad145f4ec4995fec398a170606\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. My mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002289ff63bec3014cd1bd021751c5be490f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289ff63bec3014cd1bd021751c5be490f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, sure. So I don\u2019t mind answering that question. Really, some of the work that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has been undertaking had to be delayed during the COVID period, and so it was a direct impact of all the other work that they\u2019ve had to take on as part of our COVID response. So there has been a delay in this work. We have been busy with things like the wage subsidy, the income relief payment, and the demand that we\u2019ve seen come to MSD during this time, as well as doing things like implementing apprenticeships alongside the Ministry of Education. So they have been quite busy. This is the earliest date that they could give for commencement, and so I thought that was fair and reasonable, and that is the date that we\u2019ve been given. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI will say that I do find it to be quite interesting that, on one hand, we\u2019ve got questions being raised about why this needs to come through here in urgency, and then, on the other hand, we\u2019ve got a member of the same party saying we shouldn\u2019t be delaying this for any reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022 data-id=\u0022744038e8735043d0a36b7d9b5cfb8fc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46106ec-7b2f-4d6f-a7f2-8525ae4550f6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022744038e8735043d0a36b7d9b5cfb8fc3\u0022\u003EAGNES LOHENI (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d just like a point of clarification from the Minister on section 159(2), amended by clause 25. Under \u201CMeaning of living alone\u201D, we\u2019ve got various modes of accommodation listed there in that section. Under paragraph (f), we\u2019ve got \u201Ca mobile home \u2026 that VANZ\u201D\u2014Veterans Affairs New Zealand\u2014\u201Cis satisfied is sufficiently self-contained\u201D. I just want to ask the Minister why it is we\u2019ve decided that it is Veterans Affairs that makes that decision, and not the Ministry of Social Development, in terms of the satisfaction of that. Could I just get some clarification on that, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002242430f40336f480485a0fb50199c1170\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242430f40336f480485a0fb50199c1170\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E My understanding is it is both, but when we\u2019re looking at the carryovers to what applies to New Zealand super and then, of course, to the veterans pension, then both have to be able to make that determination. So therefore, as I mentioned earlier, there are some things that have to be reflected in Part 2 with respect to the Veterans\u2019 Support Act so that we have consistency in terms of treatment, regardless of whether someone is receiving New Zealand superannuation or the actual veterans pension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 508 in the name of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002292cc3d1ac1964ec0af34928da5375bb3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000283\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c10daae362f0411f9d03587a9c59b828\u0022\u003EPart 3  Amendments to Social Security Act 2018\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff306e28eac44864ae9e3371723c9c6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff306e28eac44864ae9e3371723c9c6f\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This, of course, is the part where we can consider the spousal deduction issue. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessary for me to repeat the questions and some of the thoughts that I expressed, and I apologise for when I did so at the inappropriate time earlier on. But I would welcome an opportunity now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a8790caba2b40ccb023896ca9311eac\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Repeat them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020f763c3ac74732b8d16a8c05c9f10a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister would like me to repeat them, but, essentially, I was making the comment that probably the issue of the spousal deduction is the one that is most commonly raised with constituent MPs and has been, I have to say, over many, many years. In fact, those who have been around for some time, when we were talking in the second reading debate, were nodding their heads in agreement when I commented on how often this is being raised with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo this was something that I mentioned earlier\u2014it was work that began under the previous Government. I am pleased that the current Government has picked it up and that we are now in a process where I think a number of people will finally see that their concern has been dealt with, and we add our strong support to it. But I do think it would be really helpful if the Minister could outline for those who are listening her understanding of what the issue was, how widespread it was, because I think it would be interesting. She\u2019ll probably have better knowledge than I do of just how many people over the years have raised this question and how many different citizens who have come to New Zealand from different countries have raised this matter. Quite often it\u2019s useful to have that little bit of flesh on the bones for us to be able to explain to our constituents that this was the problem, this was the solution, and let\u2019s hope now that we\u2019ve dealt with the matter appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a99c361f60f14c159ba9333ab2d7a0bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a99c361f60f14c159ba9333ab2d7a0bf\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, sure; I don\u2019t mind speaking to that. I think many of us, particularly electorate MPs, would have received correspondence at some point in time from those that are impacted by spousal deduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo, for those that don\u2019t know, in New Zealand, if you, say, have worked overseas and you also qualify for superannuation that is in line with what ours is here and you decide to come back and settle, you can\u2019t claim both superannuation packages or amounts. There is a deduction policy, and so if, say, you are getting superannuation from another country and, dollar for dollar, it matches what you would get here, you actually do not see any New Zealand superannuation. The issue that we are addressing here is that it actually has had an impact on the partners of those who receive overseas pensions\u2014in that, if someone was receiving an overseas pension and it exceeded what they might qualify for here individually, dollar for dollar it would also have an impact on their partner. So their spouse would have deductions made, and some actually were not receiving any superannuation here in New Zealand of their own, at all, because of the amount that their spouse was getting through an overseas pension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo I think that many of us who have been lobbied on this over the years have seen this as being unfair, and there has been, I think, the will\u2014well, certainly the interest\u2014in addressing this, and I know that previous Governments have looked into it, but we\u2019ve never quite got there. So it is an achievement that all of this House can finally agree that the spousal deduction policy is not appropriate and that we are finally going to get rid of it. I think the last figures I saw were that currently there are about 400 people that are currently affected by the spousal deduction policy, but over time, obviously, there would have been more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5eb174ac974333bb5359b3d393f78d\u0022\u003EHon Tim Macindoe\u003C/span\u003E: There must be 200 of them living in Hamilton!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222643025f53394f45a40c5d9d0d2cec74\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. They have been a very vocal voice on this particular issue. It is unfair; so I can understand why, and so it\u2019s great that, as part of the changes that we\u2019re agreeing to today in the House, we will finally address this issue and put a little more fairness back into our own legislation and our Social Security Act and New Zealand superannuation policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to Part 3 be agreed to: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003Ein clause 37, new section 189(4), replace \u201C79\u201D with \u201C82\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003Ein clause 38, replace \u201CPart 2\u201D with \u201CPart 4\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003Ein clause 38, heading to new Part 3 of Schedule 1, replace \u201CPart 3\u201D with \u201CPart 5\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003Ein clause 38, new section 79 of Schedule 1, replace \u201C79\u201D with \u201C82\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eff92df7af9f4b5aa57563373c5f2d13\u0022\u003EPart 4  Amendments to other enactments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000302\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 508 in the name of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to Part 4 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f1654a49305c4361a32fe1ec472d3253\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 56\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000303\u0022\u003EPart 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002233fe4ccf9e814c0f9e680cb7b1db8b65\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227692e32fb1d34ec491ddc0de57b28ede\u0022\u003EClause 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000306\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 508 in the name of the Hon Carmel Sepuloni to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000307\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000308\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000309\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3d3039c04814e2aa42d712ad3d24af7\u0022\u003ERates Rebate (Statutory Declarations) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f999debc80d44de5a00206a44923bcaf\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220bc37d03640d4eb8ba8b4903a0881663\u0022\u003EPart 1  Substantive Amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022a645d345959b4add90df93a9fc70385a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a645d345959b4add90df93a9fc70385a\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I do have a couple of questions, and I\u2019m very pleased to see the Minister in charge of the bill, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, therefore is in the chair, so that she has an opportunity to respond to them directly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe first is to make the observation that while this bill will certainly be welcomed by some\u2014it could be welcomed by quite a few people; I acknowledge that\u2014nevertheless, it is, to some extent, a stocking filler. I would ask the Minister to explain to us why she considers that it is appropriate for this bill to be being dealt with under urgency in the House at this time. That is a serious question, because, unfortunately, we have reached a stage now where governing, or legislating, under urgency has become the norm for this Government. One only needs to look back over the last few weeks to see that we have spent a huge amount of time passing legislation under urgency that doesn\u2019t in any way meet the usual test for that sort of thing. All Governments use urgency from time to time, particularly in a post-Budget period. But here we have a bill that under no stretch of the imagination fits that description, and so I do ask the Minister to explain to us why it is being done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EWe saw what happened with the prisoner voting bill, just a few days ago. Legislation that is passed under urgency fails, frequently, to receive the appropriate scrutiny and leads to mistakes. I\u2019m not wishing to relitigate the debates of last night or previous days, other than to point out that when we sit under urgency, the potential for things to be done incorrectly is obvious. In fact, last night, most of the sitting hours of Parliament\u2014up until about 25 to 10\u2014were taken in rectifying a matter that shouldn\u2019t have been necessary if the Government hadn\u2019t been rushing the week before. So I ask the Minister if she could deal with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI also want to turn, if I may, to probably what is the most significant aspect of Part 1 and, if I can, just for the benefit of those who are listening, point out that clauses 4 to 7 amend sections 5, 6, 7, and 7A of the principal Act, which prescribe requirements for different types of rate rebate and refund applications. In particular, the relevant point here is that the amendments remove the requirement that applications be verified by the applicant making a declaration, which had the effect of obliging an applicant to attend a local authority office or make some other arrangement to have their application witnessed by a person authorised to take statutory declarations under the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957. Of course, that is where the fundamental disagreement between our side of the House and the Government arises. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is our concern, and we raised it in previous readings\u2014particularly, I was in the House when we dealt with this matter at its second reading, I think it was last Friday, where the National Party raised our concern that while we think the vast majority of New Zealanders are honest and would not look to defraud the system, unfortunately, we know from past experience that there are some who are not. That\u2019s the whole reason why the statutory declaration, of course, has existed, because if somebody is to make a declaration that is to their financial benefit and it is false, then they are, effectively\u2014to use the vernacular\u2014ripping off the taxpayer. I used the analogy, actually, last week, that this is, effectively, a bill that robs Peter to pay Paul, because we\u2019re looking at benefits for ratepayers that, effectively, have to be paid for by taxpayers. The money still has to come from somewhere. Of course, at this stage in particular, we know that local government is under particular pressure\u2014all agencies are\u2014because of COVID. We understand that, and we understand that there are many ratepayers who therefore would welcome the rebate. So it\u2019s not that we oppose the principle of a rebate; it is that we oppose the principle that a rebate could be obtained fraudulently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EThe obligation, therefore, to have a statutory declaration\u2014to say in front of somebody who is of good standing in the community, \u201CWhat I am signing here is true, and I therefore am entitled to claim the rebate that is available to me.\u201D\u2014is not something that we should throw away lightly. As I say, I have no doubt that the vast majority of people who seek that rebate do so honestly, but here we are removing the protection that all ratepayers and taxpayers should be able to enjoy so that their honesty won\u2019t be taken advantage of by the few who are dishonest. This is the worst possible time for enabling some dishonesty to creep into the system, which simply means that the honest people pay more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister if she would please respond to that, in particular, and give us her view as to why she thinks that is appropriate. I understand that there is an argument of making it simpler for people and that some people don\u2019t have ready access to transport, and all the rest of it. But surely those arguments are not strong enough to override the important principle I\u2019ve mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u00220c3a5f8a3887420d861a84deade9b5a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c3a5f8a3887420d861a84deade9b5a2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the first thing I would say to that member, Tim Macindoe, is \u201CCheer up!\u201D That\u2019s a pretty dim view to start a debate on a matter that actually makes a fundamental difference and contribution to those on low fixed incomes\u2014many senior citizens, many people, that actually have a physical disability. So let\u2019s just get back to the substance of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EYes, it is a small change but it\u2019s an important one because enabling eligible applicants to apply for the rates rebate, by removing the requirement to make a statutory declaration, fundamentally changes quite a lot of things for a lot of people in a practical way. They don\u2019t have to travel into a council office to get a statutory declaration; they can do this from the comfort of their own home and, in fact, the changes enable an online process to be adopted. But verification is key, so the bill also ensures that the verification form that is provided for is in a manner that is approved by the Secretary for Local Government. And it also ensures that the existing regime in relation to fraudulent claims on a verification form will lock in the provisions in the principal Act. I know, and I heard the debate from members of the Opposition in the second reading, about potential for fraud. That is always a potential in any circumstance, but I do not believe it\u2019s going to be caused simply by moving from a statutory declaration process to a verification process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EHowever, can I also state that some of the things that were very useful in terms of the committee\u2019s deliberations were to ensure that the immediacy of the bill comes into effect as soon as possible. I am signalling that on the Table, there is Supplementary Order Paper 529, which amends clause 2 of the bill to change the commencement date from 1 July 2020 to \u201Cthe day after the date of Royal assent\u201D, and that takes on board the many comments around the immediacy of provisions taking effect so that people can access the rates rebate in the form that we are proposing as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ENow, I, unlike the member who previously spoke, am very confident that the group of people who access the rates rebate\u2014those on low fixed incomes; mainly senior citizens\u2014by and large, welcome this practical change to enable them to have access to a contribution that makes a big difference in their annual rates payments. In 2019, in that rating year, 103,000 people had successfully applied for the rates rebate. If we improve access in the way that people apply for this small but substantial contribution to the annual rates, I think we are making a good contribution and a little bit of difference for good in a lot of people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7e1e80cdceb43b5a1b7cd9afe10f00c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7e1e80cdceb43b5a1b7cd9afe10f00c\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, can I just point out to the Minister that I am a very cheerful fellow, and I don\u2019t believe that I have said anything this morning that indicates that I am not of good cheer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221719532875164235bd43973a253d769e\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Debatable point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a49b2fe34f497695cab110e8354fe8\u0022\u003EHon TIM MACINDOE\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! But I\u2019m also somebody who takes my responsibility seriously, and I don\u2019t think that a fairly gratuitous comment of that sort suffices as an answer to a question. Because while I accept\u2014in fact, I agree with the Minister that there are many who will welcome a system which can make this easier. As I said before, there\u2019s no question that a rates rebate is a desirable thing for many people, particularly those on low and fixed incomes, and particularly in this post-COVID environment, when many household incomes are under even greater stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EBut that doesn\u2019t explain\u2014in fact, the Minister didn\u2019t even begin to answer my question\u2014why we are dealing with this matter under urgency. I say it again because it\u2019s a very important point, and if Opposition members don\u2019t stand up for the authority of Parliament and the need for legislation to be dealt with in a considered, appropriate fashion, then we would be really letting down the public of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI made the point that when bills are dealt with under urgency, quite frequently, mistakes are made, and I drew attention to one where that happened just a few days ago. I\u2019m disappointed that the Minister didn\u2019t explain to us why, when there\u2019s been plenty of time during this parliamentary term, here we are on a Wednesday morning sitting under urgency to deal with this matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EIt is a significant point, because, of course, that has a domino effect on select committees. My select committee had to begin at 8 o\u2019clock this morning and then suspend at 9 o\u2019clock. Leave wasn\u2019t granted\u2014and the reason for that is, of course, many of us have to be in the House to debate these bills, and you can\u2019t be in two places at once. So the Minister does need to explain to us why urgency is being used for a non-urgent matter and has become so common under the regime of this Government that people are beginning to forget what due parliamentary process is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003EI heard her answers on the rates rebate matter and why it is being introduced, but I do not believe she\u2019s given an assurance to others who are law-abiding citizens yet as to how the potential for fraud, or to prevent fraud, is being dealt with in this bill. She\u2019s mentioned that it\u2019s simplifying that, and it certainly is. But, really, the requirement to obtain a statutory declaration in the existing provisions, the status quo, are not that taxing. They\u2019re not that difficult. In fact, for those who perhaps live with disabilities or would find travel particularly difficult, arrangements can be made. So why is it felt that it is reasonable to put in place a regime that could be ripe for exploitation and abuse in order to fix the problem that the Minister has identified? Surely there needs to be a better remedy than this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228a1cb04e-8a86-44d1-9004-6e158e220339\u0022\u003ESo I invite the Minister to respond to those, and if we get a satisfactory answer, we probably don\u2019t need to prolong this debate much further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3bd62e8b8094eb0ac0b7a88c95799e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3bd62e8b8094eb0ac0b7a88c95799e9\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d say that the Government has such a full legislative programme that we have to take every moment, including urgency and extended sittings, to be able to work through some pretty substantial and also some small but meaningful changes that will make a difference in people\u2019s lives. It\u2019s not for me to respond to the issues regarding business of the House, but I would make that observation and absolutely support putting this small but substantial amendment through under these provisions, because the issue has gone to select committee. It\u2019s not as if the select committee hasn\u2019t had time to consider submissions, ask questions of submitters, and then make a determination, and if that\u2019s the best the member can come up with, oh my gosh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207737df484344d0fbd0d1c6b33ac9196\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222893d18a19074cc1ad975f17c5a572b7\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, we\u2014but let\u2019s come back to the point of contention in relation to the potential for fraud, which I still maintain is a dim view of things, and it\u2019s actually a dim view of people who work long and hard within the local government sector, in councils, and often there are dedicated people who understand this space who are interacting on a daily level with people in relation to the rates rebate, because of the profile of that demographic who actually benefit from the rates rebate. I\u2019m informed that around about five, possibly five to 10, matters get investigated annually in this area, but in the living memory of, certainly, people who are working at the policy level in Department of Internal Affairs, there\u2019s been no prosecution to date. So that, in a sense, highlights that while it has been identified by members in the Opposition as a potential, the reality is a very different thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe other point that was made\u2014and, again, it\u2019s been made again and again and again through the second reading and the committee stages of the House\u2014is that a statutory declaration is not a taxing process for many, but if you\u2019re living in a rural community, if you don\u2019t have access to a car and you have to rely on your niece or your nephew or your neighbour to take you in to council to actually verify your rates rebate form\u2014those are the people that this particular change will benefit. Actually, I think, more and more, if we can improve processes for ratepayers to have access to the rates rebate through, potentially, what will inevitably be an online process, with the right verifications, with the ability of people who understand the group of people, the demographic, who will benefit from this type of support, then you will get a more efficient service, less administrative costs for councils, but actually an improved uptake of the rates rebate, which is eventually where I want to get to\u2014an improved uptake of the rates rebate scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u002252603d0e7a5941eda261e1d2729b478a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252603d0e7a5941eda261e1d2729b478a\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister for her advice and input. Generally, I\u2019m very supportive of the rates rebate scheme, and in my previous life have been hugely supportive of getting it out in the community. But, Minister, the judgment here\u2014and I invite you to respond to this\u2014is I support online and other provisions that make the rates rebate scheme more accessible, but as you go down that path, you do run the risk of more people fraudulently using the system. I accept that, up until now, the figures you\u2019ve given are very small numbers, but I liken it to the wage subsidy, effectively, where a whole lot of people applied for the wage subsidy, and then there was an auditing and verification process that sought to make sure that people were following the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003EMinister, what I\u2019m not clear on here is in the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA), or under the Secretary for Local Government, how, in fact\u2014or are you signalling that there will be a more rigid investigatory regime of auditing? Because I think this side of the Chamber would be somewhat more satisfied with this if we knew that applicants actually knew that there was an auditing regime of quite regular basis to confirm what data was being given. Because, effectively, we\u2019re signing away statutory declarations, and I know from previous history, if you go to a council, or a council officer comes to your home with a statutory declaration, they will very likely go through the information with you. There is a much greater degree of accuracy when that occurs. So if we\u2019re going to trade that off, is the Minister signalling that DIA will have an extra capacity to effectively conduct audits on a more regular basis, to ensure compliance? Because I think if people knew that there\u2019s a regular auditing process, they\u2019re more likely to give accurate information. That, in many ways, would take away some of the concerns this side of the Chamber has. I\u2019d be interested to know if any work has been done on that, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7046ffe7a9e4c82971b2dcf566e88b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7046ffe7a9e4c82971b2dcf566e88b1\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the question. In terms of the removal of the statutory declaration in favour of verification, there must still be supporting documentation required, so the existing processes of being able to verify the supporting documentation will remain in place, as will the current considerations around any potential risk in terms of the decision making. So from an operational point of view, it\u2019s my sense, in the implementation, that councils will remain robust in the way that they look to authorise the verified documents, and that it will continue to be a matter of assessment as they look to the uptake of the rates rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI do believe, however, that when we talk about the issues around improving access and online formats, we are getting better and better at ensuring that there\u2019s less prospect for fraudulent activity, but it\u2019s not a 100 percent assurance. That is the challenge in many, many things. If we look at the most robust way of using identity to verify applications, RealMe for passport applications, we would say as members of this House that there is a high level of assurance and integrity of using that system for a document of that nature. Is it 100 percent? We would hope so, but in your risk analysis of the process, there will inevitably, potentially, be opportunities for people to penetrate the system, and that is always going to be a challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t want to compare apples with pears but I just say that when we introduce the potential for an online process, we must try and assure ourselves\u2014and councils will do this. This paves the way for an online process. This paves the way for councils to be able to build a robust architecture around any online process in relation to this matter, and I\u2019m confident that there has been a lot of thinking within local government about how to improve the processes and how to introduce online systems in a way that not only gives decision makers greater confidence but also ratepayers as they access the system as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7df789f1e2f48a09c597e026ec80162\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7df789f1e2f48a09c597e026ec80162\u0022\u003EDENISE LEE (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Minister, for some of those comments. I\u2019m just picking up on words, and I\u2019m not quite sure I got the context right, but you referred to my \u201Csense\u201D of what councils will do when picking up the amended regime that this bill creates. So my question for you is: what is that sense based on? What\u2019s your understanding? What are the conversations that you\u2019ve had with councils, who will, obviously, have to dedicate staff to verify information in that application process that this bill outlines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022943fd636-21ec-4442-9a72-68c49464776f\u0022\u003EYou can sense where we\u2019re coming from on this side of the House\u2014it\u2019s very simple: the difference between the inconvenience of going to apply for the rates rebate versus accountability. We need assurance, on this side of the House, of accountability for taxpayer money and not opening ourselves up to a regime which will, in fact, create more breach or fraud\u2014or however you want to phrase it\u2014that\u2019s our concern. So, more than just a \u201Csense\u201D, what assurance do you have that council and council staffing will be able to dial up to make sure that the new verification process is watertight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022414de0c906304d448fa23d6a19533cd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022414de0c906304d448fa23d6a19533cd3\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Well, let\u2019s be really clear so that there\u2019s no mincing of words. In terms of the potential for fraud, there is always a potential for fraud in many places, in many ways. The risk assurance system within councils, I think, tries to mitigate absolutely around this happening through many of its processes. But let\u2019s go to the facts so it\u2019s not a sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere have been annually between five to 10 investigations, not prosecutions, in this particular area, which indicates in itself that there are robust measures within councils in terms of how they process things. So, again, I won\u2019t mince words. I\u2019ll be very clear. If there are only five to 10 investigations annually, no prosecutions in the living memory\u2014and I\u2019m happy to provide further information around this\u2014then that actually speaks volumes in terms of the potential that you\u2019re proposing today and the reality of what has happened\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u00228b04d140f7c94787986c455f2451a773\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b04d140f7c94787986c455f2451a773\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to follow up with the Minister on her commentary. I understand the number of cases that have been investigated, and I\u2019m not suggesting for a minute it\u2019s widespread, but it could be far greater\u2014the element of fraud\u2014than what is being assessed. A question for the Minister: I notice in the papers that it talks about\u2014and I encourage this as we get into more online application\u2014the use of Inland Revenue numbers and data and the sharing of information, because in my view, that\u2019s probably where the greatest fraud potential can exist in terms of the assessment of somebody\u2019s income and the ability to say that the income is X but by the end of it it\u2019s Y. I know that in the papers it says it\u2019s possible to get Inland Revenue tied in, but there are some consequential changes that need to be made. Are those consequential changes requiring legislation or are they changes that can be made by regulation or by the chief executive of the Department of Internal Affairs, as an example?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8051c620c944a369c5ec6ed5bc66c7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8051c620c944a369c5ec6ed5bc66c7f\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Those were matters outside the scope of the bill, but they were worthy matters worth considering, as you rightly pointed out, Mr Yule. The ability to have applicants include their IRD number to verify their income is a very useful suggestion, and it\u2019s one that we are going to ensure that the Secretary for Local Government can consider. And, as I say, this bill paves the way for the potential of an online application. As you consider online applications of any nature, you start to build the architecture that provides your risk\u2014a profile around that whole approach. I welcome the suggestion from the Social Services and Community Committee around the IRD number matching. I think that\u2019s a worthy suggestion that should be considered, and it will be. However, it\u2019s outside the scope of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c629b8c723f94199b034a41d33bc1dd5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022659fb26048604c3297c23d33a7b2a05a\u0022\u003EPart 2  Related amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002265fb4cc0d2184e8ba1b8981a91e29aa6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c59bc2abdac24089a5050f236de23a72\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c18fbb5bed9d4ae395af32f1711f1068\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000349\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 529 in the name of the Hon Nanaia Mahuta to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000350\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a86492306bc843f8a81c81feb7a3e8b1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223323a1af387f4b46ab1c5b24c15c8cf9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 63\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 46; New Zealand First 9; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 55; ACT New Zealand 1; Ross.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000351\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment presently.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276dce5d95d09457e8348b5c3ff69f6a0\u0022\u003ETaumata Arowai\u2014the Water Services Regulator Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b79d43851e2d4f6f86d0a82fd409b37e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022df19017644494eddaeaab3bacbe606a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df19017644494eddaeaab3bacbe606a9\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave of the committee for the Taumata Arowai\u2014the Water Services Regulator Bill to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f43d36e6da924a9fb4cb5269b64b1017\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022267566665d924e248274c557fd289522\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 3, Schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022 data-id=\u0022df9d87cdadc64ff6b32569dceed3a2ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220c51564f-6c6e-45cc-adab-f15b6c831fce\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df9d87cdadc64ff6b32569dceed3a2ee\u0022\u003ELAWRENCE YULE (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, will know, and this committee will know, we are supporting this bill. However, I do\u2014at this stage in the committee\u2014wish to ask the Minister, really, some questions as to how this relates potentially to the review of Three Waters and potential announcements of that, and in that space, effectively, how some of the costs that are being incurred on councils from this piece of legislation will be dealt with. Specifically, I know the cost of the regulator are being funded by the Crown, but where the regulator finds that there needs to be upgrades of certain things to meet the standards, will that issue be addressed through other reforms that the Minister is considering, and at what time will those other reforms be announced? Because, while this bill is important\u2014and, as I say, we support it\u2014it is important we understand the context of the total decision-making of the Three Waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002274a634e3bc2b4e028f77f4046a6f6aed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a634e3bc2b4e028f77f4046a6f6aed\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, can I thank the Health Committee for their careful deliberation on this particular bill. It is my intention, as I have signalled in previous parts of the debate on this bill, to introduce a water services bill to the Health Committee so that they get greater oversight around the regulatory regime. The member Lawrence Yule has asked questions around the Three Waters Review which probably don\u2019t fit specifically within the nature of this debate. Suffice it to say, as a result of the Havelock North drinking-water inquiry, there was a strong push to ensure that we had a more robust and coherent regulatory system around the assurance of drinking-water. So this is the first part of that Three Waters reform approach that I\u2019m taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBut if I come to the bill specifically, because I do believe we should use the time in the committee to maximise our contribution on how the bill was improved based on the consideration of the select committee, I want to thank the select committee for bringing a number of things to the attention of the House. It has proposed changes which I have accepted, in particular in relation to being more specific around the definition of \u201Cdrinking-water supplier\u201D. We\u2019ll see that suggestions have been made of that nature, and I welcome the lengthy considerations around why this was important. Suggestions have also been made to ensure that a definition around \u201Cdomestic dwelling\u201D also be included, so without a shadow of a doubt we knew how the bill was going to affect these domestic self-suppliers. So that\u2019s the first thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EI also want to highlight that this is a challenging space in terms of regulation and the way in which M\u0101ori interests are taken account of. Because M\u0101ori have a whole-world view approach to water, there was a view of the select committee to improve the clarity and intent of the definition of \u201CTe Mana o te Wai\u201D. So what they have suggested, which I welcomed, was to put that very clearly in the bill so that there wasn\u2019t an evolving interpretation. So we lifted out the interpretation of \u201CTe Mana o te Wai\u201D as expressed in the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management and inserted it within the context of this particular bill. What that means in practice, in terms of source protection and also the quality of water going back into the receiving environment\u2014it joins up that holistic concept of Te Mana o te Wai in terms of the way in which the regulator oversees drinking-water, waste-water and storm-water systems. So I want to thank them for that aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThere were also useful suggestions around the role and function of the advisory group, and also Taumata Arowai having access to a technical advisory group. If I comment on the dual membership of a person being in the M\u0101ori Advisory Group and being able to sit on the board, what that would do, very clearly, is lift up the considerations of the M\u0101ori Advisory Group to the board-level discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThis bill establishes the regulator; the roles and functions are in clause 10. The objectives and functions of the regulator are expressed in clauses 10 and 11, and that, I understand from the information I received, was well canvassed and discussed with submitters. Overall, the profile of submissions highlighted support for a dedicated drinking-water regulator. The sector has long asked for this in the post - Havelock North inquiry context. If I pick up briefly on the point raised about how this gets funded, initially the Crown will make a contribution to the funding of the regulator, to stand it up and initiate its functions. Over time, there will be provision for levies and fees to be charged, and those specific matters will be the substance of the water services bill that is intended to go to the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 530 in the name of the Hon Nanaia Mahuta be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 3, Schedules 1 and 2, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe Chairperson reported the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran\u2019s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill, the Rates Rebate (Statutory Declarations) Amendment Bill, and the Taumata Arowai\u2014the Water Services Regulator Bill with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d123c5a8d5e7479b84039a00f8ea30c7\u0022\u003EProtected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5e815e6872b4a96908543ee9b590610\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022932159274a974977a9e5f43b17f48071\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022932159274a974977a9e5f43b17f48071\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Civil Defence)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of State Services: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis bill repeals the Protected Disclosures Act 2000, replacing it with a new Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a world leader in integrity, transparency, and openness and is consistently at the top of Transparency International\u2019s Corruption Perceptions Index. New Zealand was also one of the first countries in the world to introduce a dedicated law to protect whistleblowers, the Protected Disclosures Act 2000. This law exists to support people in the public and private sectors to expose criminal, fraudulent, or other serious misconduct in their workplace by protecting them from unfair dismissal or treatment. An effective regime for disclosing serious wrongdoing in the workplace is critical to maintaining New Zealand\u2019s high standard of integrity, openness, and transparency. Employees who uncover serious misconduct, fraud, and corruption in public and private workplaces need and deserve effective organisational processes and legal protections. Whistleblowers are critical to maintaining public confidence in the integrity of Government and business in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EInternational research has found that reporting by employees is the single most important method by which wrongdoing in or by an organisation is brought to light. Serious wrongdoing when it does occur can cause significant damage to business, our State services, and New Zealand\u2019s reputation. It can undermine both the confidence of the public in the organisation and the trust of employees in their colleagues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt is the people who work within an organisation who are often in the best position to detect wrongdoing. In some cases, wrongdoing can\u2019t be detected unless it is reported by an employee who witnessed it. One of the biggest hurdles to uncovering serious wrongdoing is the reluctance of employees to make a report. They either don\u2019t know the organisation\u2019s policy for reporting or they fear retaliation or are not confident the report will go to someone in the organisation who can do something about it. An \u201Cif in doubt, speak up\u201D culture can also act as a deterrent to wrongdoers so that wrongdoing is less likely to occur in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ERecent academic evaluations, anecdotal evidence, and several misconduct cases suggest that New Zealand\u2019s legislation is not working effectively and lags behind international practice in a number of key areas. A 2017 investigation into the treatment of whistleblowers at the Ministry of Transport identified a number of areas where the current regime is unclear, confusing, and creates barriers to making disclosures that require changes to the underlying legislation. The law is now 20 years old, and it\u2019s not working as well as it should. People don\u2019t always know how to use the Act or feel safe using it. This needs to change. If we want to maintain our high integrity standards, we must continue to work hard to tackle serious misconduct in New Zealand. It is vital we get this right when something is wrong. People need to be able to raise issues safely without fear of punishment or reprisal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn August 2018, the Government decided to review the Act and engage with the public on options for change. The State Services Commission undertook targeted consultation with stakeholders across the public and private sectors in February and March 2018 to gather perspectives on the strengths, issues, and challenges with the Act and the benefits and risks of different reform choices. This included the State Services Commission engaging with individuals with experience of making a protected disclosure; professional bodies; unions; business, community, and voluntary sector representatives and organisations; oversight and regulatory agencies; Public Service agencies; academics; and experts. The commission also reached out to media organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThis targeted engagement highlighted a number of weaknesses with the current regime. In particular, there is general confusion around what the Act does and how to use it, and the processes for disclosing wrongdoing are frequently non-existent or overly complex. Those insights informed public engagement on how the Act could be improved over October to December 2018. These reviews showed the aims of the Act remain sound, but the legislation is currently weak or silent in certain areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EPeople don\u2019t feel safe raising concerns. Griffith University research found that nearly 30 percent of employees across Australian and New Zealand workplaces did not know what support their organisation provides to those who report wrongdoing. People are unclear about how to make a disclosure and what it means. The Griffith University research in 2016 found also that the New Zealand Government ranks below most Australian jurisdictions in relation to the strength of organisational processes for dealing with disclosures internally. People don\u2019t have confidence that their organisations will act on their concerns. Transparency International\u2019s National Integrity System report on New Zealand concluded that a significant number of whistleblowers encounter inaction, which perpetuates the belief amongst employees that there is no point in flagging or raising concerns. Most of the available evidence relates to the public sector and little is known about how disclosures are handled in the private sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThe bill continues the purpose of the existing Act. It is presented as a new Act, not an amendment, to make the bill clearer and more accessible. The bill is simpler and will be easier to follow. The key changes in the bill are: allowing people to report serious wrongdoing direct to an external authority, if they wish; strengthening protection for disclosers by outlining what those receiving disclosures should do; requiring public sector organisations to provide support for disclosers; extending the coverage of serious wrongdoing to include misuse of public funds or resources, whether in a public or private organisation, and to include non-Government persons performing a statutory function or exercising a statutory power or acting on behalf of a public sector organisation; requiring public sector organisations to state in their published internal procedures how support for disclosers will be provided; and making it clear what behaviour is not acceptable by listing the ways in which retaliation against the discloser may occur. The bill creates a new schedule to the Act that names the most likely appropriate authorities for a particular subject matter. This is because the number of appropriate authorities to whom a disclosure can be made is confusing to navigate and can leave would-be disclosers unsure about who to report to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EThese changes should provide more assurance to people wanting to make disclosures. In addition, the State Services Commission is continuing to provide the standards and guidance for speaking up in the State services. The Government is taking a two-phased approach to strengthening our protected disclosures regime. The first is this bill, addressing the key deficiencies in the Protected Disclosures Act 2000. The State Services Commission will investigate further possible amendments to the Act in a second tranche of work, including the potential for a one-stop shop for disclosures. The bill strikes a balance between encouraging and protecting whistleblowers while putting in place appropriate safeguards to minimise vexatious allegations and an onerous compliance burden for organisations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Government is committed to protecting New Zealanders who speak up about serious wrongdoing in the workplace. I look forward to the select committee process. As with any piece of legislation change that is as large as this, there are bound to be further refinements that can be made during the select committee process. I look forward to engaging constructively with members on both sides of the House, stakeholders, and members of the public to ensure that that happens. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022 data-id=\u0022b101c7e27bb44c1d80099c0c31a6375f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b101c7e27bb44c1d80099c0c31a6375f\u0022\u003ESIMON O\u2019CONNOR (National\u2014T\u0101maki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a call on this Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill, and I acknowledge the Minister who\u2019s just taken his seat, the Hon Peeni Henare. The National Party is pleased to support this bill at first reading. We are particularly keen that the select committee tease out a number of issues, and I may touch on a few of those, but I\u2019m heartened to hear in the Minister\u2019s contribution that he sees the select committee process as rather vital and important and that he is wishing to work not only with the public and private sector\u2014encouraging them to submit, as I do, as well; an encouragement to anyone who has an interest in this topic to do so\u2014but the Minister\u2019s also indicated a strong willingness to work with parties across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI suppose it goes without saying\u2014but we\u2019re in Parliament; we might as well put it in Hansard\u2014that National believes that actually having whistleblower protections is important, and we certainly acknowledge that the current law is not so much out of date, I would argue, as not as comprehensible as it could be\u2014or put in a different form: it\u2019s not as accessible as it could be. So we\u2019re very supportive of this modernising. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EI personally think it\u2019s a particularly good idea to set it out as a new Act\u2014sorry, that\u2019s presumptive of me\u2014as a new bill, it may become an Act in time\u2014but as a new bill rather than trying to make an amendment. I think, again, that\u2019s a very good call by the Government in this regard. It\u2019s often\u2014and I\u2019m not a lawyer; I\u2019m sure my learned colleague Paulo Garcia will speak to this more\u2014that amendment bills just mess things up, and the very simple intention here is to make the process as accessible and easy as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe fact that there are particular provisions now which will include the use of public funds in the private sector, or in the NGO sector, is particularly good. I\u2019ll confine most of my comments, if you will, to the public fund side of things. Parliament, ultimately, is that power of authorising the spend of money, and one of the key things we try to do as parliamentarians is make sure that the moneys are spent appropriately. We, obviously, do that through excellent conversations with Ministers at Estimates and annual reviews with chief executives. But, actually, it becomes quite important, over time, if there\u2019s information from individuals who are working with public funds, who have a protection\u2014obviously, the nature of this bill: a protection\u2014to be able to speak, that there\u2019s going to be an obligation on the State services to provide that protection is vitally important, but I think, too, it is a very positive step that the protections are being extended to those who are speaking in a private corporation or within a charity or an NGO, they\u2019ll be protected if they are using public funds. So, as I understand it at the moment, the current law doesn\u2019t quite extend that far. So that\u2019s a rather positive step there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EThe concern primarily, from this side\u2014and it\u2019s not enough for us to stop the support of the bill\u2014is to make sure that we\u2019re not going to have, if you will, vexatious whistleblowing. It\u2019s really, really good the way that clause 8, I think it is, defines who can make a disclosure, and clause 10 indicates on what. I think it\u2019s really important that that\u2019s wide and open. But on this side of the House, we\u2019re just really keen to make sure that that\u2019s not going to allow vexatious or silly people, for want of a better word, to come in and make some outlandish claims that could do damage to a private company, to a State entity, to an individual. In other words, it\u2019s making sure that there\u2019s a balance that we facilitate\u2014encourage, even\u2014disclosures. We want people who have information to blow that whistle, to do so loudly, and they must be allowed to do that\u2014they must be protected. But we do want to make sure that where something\u2019s falsely declared deliberately, that that\u2019s not going to be protected, and, secondly, to minimise, where we can, the damage where someone\u2014even in, if you will, good conscience\u2014declares something, whistle-blows it, but it turns out to be patently false and, importantly, patently damaging to that entity, that the entity\u2019s not going to suffer as a consequence. So I suspect it\u2019s going to be quite technical to get that balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b6b1d74-9e5e-42ba-a922-85b0ea7f5ab6\u0022\u003EBut, again, I welcome\u2014and I think the National Party welcomes\u2014the opportunity to work with Government, to move through a select committee process, and to make sure that all voices are heard. I suppose it\u2019s going to be the very nature of this bill; if we\u2019re going to be protecting whistleblowers, we need everyone to come in and have their say to ensure that not only do we have, as the Minister\u2019s indicated, a bill that is fit for purpose in this modern environment but a bill that just makes sure that we\u2019re not going to end up defaming, for want of a better word, or harming the public sector or private entities that take public cash. So with that very short contribution, we\u2019d like to commend this bill, at first reading, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00220755aeaed29e4338b7dc71dd6b128482\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220755aeaed29e4338b7dc71dd6b128482\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a great honour to be speaking on the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill 2020, and it\u2019s important to note that New Zealand does have a strong reputation in this space for being a world leader in integrity, transparency, and openness and also has consistently been top of Transparency International\u2019s Corruption Perception Index, and I think that\u2019s important to state up front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this legislation does is it builds upon that culture and modernises it, and it\u2019s really important that here in New Zealand we, in our workplaces, build a culture where wrongdoing is not accepted and where we encourage, whether employees or employers or whoever is in that workplace environment, to be able to come forward when they see issues or actions that are considered to be wrong. An effective regime for disclosing serious wrongdoing in the workplace is critical to maintaining that high reputation that New Zealand has for integrity, and this Government is dedicated and committed to protecting New Zealanders who speak up about serious wrongdoing in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENew Zealand was also one of the first countries in the world to introduce a dedicated law to protect whistleblowers, and that was the Protected Disclosures Act in 2000, and this law exists to support people in the public and in the private sectors to expose criminal, fraudulent, and other serious misconduct in their workplaces by protecting them from unfair dismissal or treatment. So what\u2019s happened recently is that there\u2019s been some reviewing, some research, and a good amount of work done to identify where the shortfalls are with the existing legislation, and there are some clear problems that have been outlined. I\u2019m going to go through these very quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe problems are that both organisations and disclosers are somewhat confused about when to use the Act as it has been\u2014so it\u2019s been underutilised. Secondly, disclosers are unclear about how to make a disclosure internally, and some organisations are also unclear about how to respond once accusations have been made. It\u2019s been found that it is difficult for disclosers to navigate the system for reporting concerns, and also that disclosers fear speaking up because they may lack the confidence or the protections available to them. So this bill seeks to address those problems, and it primarily does that by supporting and enabling people to come forward more readily and giving that information to people to disclose in a way that they feel protected and that their own livelihoods won\u2019t be threatened by coming forward with that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo allowing people to report serious wrongdoing directly to an external authority if they wish is important, and also strengthening the protection for disclosures by outlining what those receiving disclosures should do exactly. Important to also note is the requiring of public sector organisations to provide support to those disclosing\u2014that they\u2019re not left to suffer in silence; that, when they are disclosing, they\u2019re provided support. Extending the coverage of serious wrongdoing to include misuse of public funds or resources\u2014and that\u2019s very important, whether they be in a public or a private organisation\u2014and to include NGOs performing a statutory function, exercising statutory power, or acting on behalf of a public sector organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important to make clear what the process is, and making clear what behaviour is not acceptable, and listing the ways that can prevent retaliation in a situation where someone\u2019s making an accusation\u2014so making it very clear about what that process is. The bill creates a new schedule in the Act that names the most likely or appropriate authority for particular subject matter. This is because the number of appropriate authorities to whom a disclosure can be made is confusing to navigate. People don\u2019t know where to go or how to go about it, and this could mean that disclosers are unsure where to report and how to go about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo, by strengthening these provisions in the Act, this enables New Zealand to continue to have a strong reputation for being transparent, for being open, and for enabling a culture to be built where employees are able to report wrongdoing and have a feeling that they know where to go, how to report it, and that they are protected in that process should they be making allegations that are found to be justified. I look forward to the select committee process. As with any piece of legislative change as large as this, I\u2019m sure there are going to be some significant contributions from members of the public and organisations who wish to have their say, and I look forward to those. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022912a795d5fc743a4ac3574166b773350\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022912a795d5fc743a4ac3574166b773350\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E National supports this bill, the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill, to select committee. The provisions in the bill to make changes to the way whistleblowers are and can be treated, make changes to and clarification of some of the processes around whistleblowing to provide protection to the person making a complaint. Some of the provisions in the bill have been well explained, even in this early stage of the first reading, so I\u2019m not going to go through them all. There are just a couple of points and questions I would like to raise as the bill goes into its select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe first is that the bill adds a new schedule containing examples of the most likely appropriate authorities to whom whistleblowers can turn to make a complaint and examples of the nature of concerns they deal with. If this can be codified in legislation, then it will provide a very useful pathway for whistleblowers to know where to go when they wish to make a complaint. We must always remember that people who seek to undertake a whistleblowing function are in a highly charged emotional environment because anything, any circumstance, could have promoted this desire to tell: tell the truth, tell their side of the story. So the clarity that is signalled to be provided in this bill is a very important part of this amendment bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThis brings me to the way that this matter is being treated in the bill by way of a schedule. A schedule is a time-limited thing. It exists on the day unless there is a mechanism to add more or less agencies\u2014or, in this case, I should say, appropriate authorities\u2014whom the whistleblower can approach. And that underlines the need for a good, thorough select committee process, because there will be a number of views, both within Parliament and also by submitters, as to how best not only to achieve that schedule\u2014if it is to be at a schedule and a schedule is often used to list agencies and list other matter\u2014but decide who those appropriate authorities are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThey may exist in the Protected Disclosures Act. They may well already\u2014I apologise; I haven\u2019t had a chance to go back and have a look at that Act. There may well be that mechanism in the Act or this could be a new form of drafting, a more modern form of drafting which places these matters into the schedule. So I signal that while I, potentially, won\u2019t be sitting on the select committee, this will be one of those instances where a lot of care needs to be taken that the spirit and the intent and the provision in this Act is carried through into the final result, and we\u2019ll be keeping an eye on that one and making a contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe other area I just wanted to highlight at this first reading\u2014we\u2019re all so fresh to this bill so we haven\u2019t had an opportunity, as we do in the select committee process, to speak with any certainty or authority on it, particularly if we\u2019re not lawyers. However, I also raise a question around the provision set out in clause 11(4) which provides for a discloser who is entitled to protection, even if \u201C(a) they are mistaken and there is no \u2026 wrongdoing; or (b) they do not refer to the name of this Act when making the disclosure;\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s more technical, and then \u201C(c) they technically fail to comply with this section or section 13 (as long as they have substantially complied)\u201D with the provisions that are being put into this bill. It has been raised by my colleague, and I think it was right to raise it\u2014that query around vexatious or mischievous disclosures, and I think very strong provisions need to be put in and a mechanism should be in the bill. Again, it may well be, but we have not had the opportunity to really have a good scrutiny of the bill. But this is the other part of this bill where I think that vexatious, mischievous, or another motive for disclosing behaviour, an activity\u2014whatever it is\u2014needs to be very carefully crafted within this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EHaving said those two matters, National does support this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022 data-id=\u0022459c18b70882426aa4239e5542f9afd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022459c18b70882426aa4239e5542f9afd3\u0022\u003EDARROCH BALL (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t intend to take a long call on this Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill, but I think it\u2019s important to state the main points of it and why New Zealand First supports it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe first thing I actually want to do is reference the State Services Commission analysis and advice. In the first paragraph, they\u2019ve wanted to define what the problem is and then move on to the approach to solve that problem. I think they sum it up quite well when they state that the research that they conducted found that reporting by employees is the single most important method by which illegal or corrupt activity in the workplace is brought to light. Obviously, a clear and effective regime that not only supports but encourages people to speak up about the serious wrongdoing is an absolute essential nature and element of a strong integrity framework, and obviously we pride ourselves in New Zealand on that strong integrity framework that we have and base our society on. Basically, that\u2019s the intent and purpose of what this bill is and what it wants to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard, this bill seeks to repeal the current 20-year-old Protected Disclosures Act, and the main reason for that is because it\u2019s outdated; it\u2019s not working as well as it should; and, most importantly, as it notes, not only do people not actually know how to use the Act properly but they don\u2019t feel safe in using it. I think that it\u2019s important that we need to remedy that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003EThe half a dozen main key changes that this bill wants to achieve, first, is to report serious wrongdoing direct to an external authority. We\u2019ve heard that from both sides and how extremely important that aspect is. It strengthens the protection for disclosures, it requires a provision of support for disclosures, it extends the coverage of serious wrongdoing to include misuse of public funds or resources and other important extensions as well, it requires public sector organisations to state in their published internal procedures how support for disclosers will be provided, and ensures listing the ways in which retaliation against disclosers may occur.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002236c8c596-d890-4cca-9767-1eeb5c9ce710\u0022\u003ESo I think wrapped up in the intent and the purpose of this bill is obviously making sure that the Act is fit for purpose, that it\u2019s working well, that it\u2019s effective, and most importantly, from New Zealand First\u2019s point of view, people actually feel safe in using that and supported in using that. I think that the bill that is in the House as it stands is a balanced bill\u2014the intent and purpose of it is balanced. Obviously, it\u2019s quite a large bill, and, as we\u2019ve heard from both sides already, the select committee process will be a very important stage in this moving through the House. We look forward to hearing from the submitters and the experts and their advice on any potential changes to the bill in moving forward, and New Zealand First commends it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00229b3c96b59be44fa594c77a6e00abca36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b3c96b59be44fa594c77a6e00abca36\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in support of the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill and its referral to select committee. One of the most precious parts of this country we share is that we are a country that is largely\u2014not totally; largely\u2014free of corruption. And what we need to continuously do as a Parliament is ensure that we are adopting best practice in continuing to protect our country in that regard. If you look at the things that make New Zealand have a competitive advantage for investment, being an attractive country for people to both travel to and to employ and be an entrepreneur\u2014to live all those things\u2014that culture of being a country in which there is a low tolerance for corruption, misuse of public money, and those things is really critical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWe also should reflect on the history in which the original 2000 Act was brought into law. There was significant concern in the 1990s that staff members that worked in institutions in the mental health sector\u2014where patients that posed a very real risk to the public were inappropriately being released into the public\u2014felt that they could not disclose such information without being in breach of both their employment obligations and others. There was great hope, if you reflect on the parliamentary debate in 2000, when the original Act was passed. When I read the State Services Commission review of that legislation, I was surprised by how infrequently the mechanisms of that 2000 law have been used. I think the issues that are addressed in that review and subsequently in this bill are part of it, but I also think one of the issues is that very few people are actually aware that such a law exists and that there are legal protections for people who make such disclosures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ENow, the first thing we\u2019ve got to try and get right is where that threshold is for a wrongdoing to be of sufficient moment to justify breaking the normal legal conventions of people\u2019s responsibilities and lives. It\u2019s important that we frame that correctly, because what we don\u2019t want to do is create a legal framework where someone that\u2019s got a snitcher or a beef or something else within the organisation where they work can misuse these sorts of legal mechanisms, and so that definition is important. I think it\u2019s equally appropriate that we have a debate about the extent to which this legislation applies to those in the private sector as well as the public sector. Because the public sector is funded by taxes, there is an extra obligation to make sure that those public moneys are appropriately expended, but, equally, we can all think of examples in large corporate organisations where there can be wrongdoing of which there needs to be a mechanism to resolve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EThe other part that we need to focus on within this law is how far the protections go. How far do we protect people that may act in bad faith with a disclosure, people that may have ill motivation? How do you try and get that balance right between a regime that will genuinely help New Zealand flush out wrongdoing, fraud, or corrupt activities while, at the same time, not creating a mechanism that can be misused or that adds a level of uncertainty for those people in those organisations that it covers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003ESo National supports the bill\u2019s introduction. We support its referral to the select committee. We really do ask for New Zealanders who have a passion about New Zealand retaining\u2014and I\u2019m very proud that, when the John Key - Bill English Government left, New Zealand was ranked No. 1 in the world as the least corrupt country in the world. That is something we must jealously guard. Improvements in this law can help us do that, but it is one of those issues where the detail matters. And that\u2019s where National will be deeply engaged in the select committee process to ensure that we get the detail and the balance of this law right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022 data-id=\u002252393388cdfb446e9151a19537e7b724\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252393388cdfb446e9151a19537e7b724\u0022\u003EGARETH HUGHES (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou. Kia ora. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to support this the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EOur country and our world is actually better for the actions\u2014the courageous actions\u2014of whistleblowers in the past. So many examples that we would think absolutely abhorrent today were only stopped or brought to light because someone had the integrity and the courage\u2014and, actually, probably had to face a huge amount of pressure\u2014to stand up for what they believe in as right. So I want to thank every single whistleblower in New Zealand and around the world. We\u2019ve seen high-profile individuals from Snowden in the US to our own whistleblowers in New Zealand uncovering examples of public misspending and private unlawful behaviour. I want to thank them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EThis law is about improving the existing regime, which dates back 20 years. I note in 2017 the Ombudsman, Judge Boshier, said we need to give it a shot of adrenaline, and this is what I think we\u2019re achieving in this legislation. We look forward to hearing the select committee submissions. I note there\u2019s been widespread consultation in the development of the bill, but it\u2019s important to get those voices heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255bb390e-f6c3-498c-bbf6-ea1a8fc993c7\u0022\u003EI note National members are raising concerns around vexatious whistleblower applications. I\u2019d note there are protections designed into the legislation. But, look, I don\u2019t think anyone whistle-blows for the fun of it. They\u2019re doing it because they believe in it and they\u2019re trying to uncover something. Of course, there are examples where maybe the facts are in doubt or there\u2019s some grey area. That\u2019s dealt with by this legislation. But, look, I don\u2019t think a potential hypothetical risk of vexatious complaints should be a barrier to us giving the legislation that shot of adrenaline the Ombudsman has called for. The Green Party is proud to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaac161530ff4b6ba09ecddbf692ad2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaac161530ff4b6ba09ecddbf692ad2f\u0022\u003EDr JIAN YANG (National):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak briefly on the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill. As previous speakers have mentioned, New Zealand has a good reputation in many areas, and to be clean and the least corrupt in the world is one of the good reputations that New Zealand has, of course, along with what we call clean, green New Zealand. So it\u2019s important for us to have a good system to protect whistleblowers to make sure that New Zealand will stay corruption-free, and the Protected Disclosures Act itself is now outdated. It\u2019s 20 years old. Therefore, it is time for us to have more protection for whistleblowers, and this bill indeed has the intention to make sure that whistleblowers have access to protection and are able to make any particular contact with authorities to report any particular serious wrongdoings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo this bill itself has two main categories. One is to give whistleblowers greater certainty and protection, and, secondly, to expand the scope of serious wrongdoing. So for that reason, the bill itself, indeed, is trying to define the meaning of serious wrongdoing, and it is very important for us to have a clear definition. So this bill itself has this particular intention to do that. I think it is a good move, a good attempt. Therefore, for that reason, I think the committee should have a chance to go through this. Also, this bill actually enables whistleblowers to report serious wrongdoings directly to the authorities concerned at any time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo this is important, again, because, firstly, you know the definition and, secondly, you have the access. You have a channel to report directly to concerned agencies straight away, at any time. So this is another intention of this bill, and the bill, of course, as I said, tries to protect the whistleblowers and has specific definitions and specific procedures. Even if whistleblowers make some mistakes, they can still be protected so long as they\u2019re not wilfully doing this and so long as the whistleblowers are not intentionally damaging the reputation of a particular company or a particular organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAlso, this bill itself attempts to clarify the internal procedures. I think it\u2019s very important that all organisations have a proper process in terms of dealing with these whistleblower issues. This bill itself will clarify all the step-by-step processes and it has a chart\u2014I think it\u2019s very clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EAt the same time, of course, we need to have some kind of balance, because there could be some people there who may be unhappy with his or her organisation or company and therefore might take some advantage and take some revenge. Therefore, it\u2019s important for us to protect the reputation of a particular company, or a particular organisation, from the damage such kinds of people may cause. So it is a balancing issue, and I believe the committee will be able to go through all these details and come up with good procedures, good process, and we will have the chance to listen to people, listen to submitters, and also to listen to officials and get the fine line there. But in the end, we want to make sure that we have a good system there to protect whistleblowers at the same time as we have good systems there to protect our organisations and our businesses or companies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003ESo the committee will work in this area, and we look forward to having this particular chance to listen to various views and to improve the bill and make it much better when the bill comes back to the House. Thanks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EBill read a first time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20200630846ee9bbf2e34100ab296ed3d4f7d588000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022656487fe-e0a2-485c-8dc2-fe61b9aec128\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.45 p.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"