"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fa8692385434ea896625fa1af0f9786\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 14 APRIL 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2add29221e04877b26664049598cf38\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 14 APRIL 2021\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3ebc7bb481d45bca90943d37bbaff21\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022661c896034d7420bb5d9183587e1f0fe\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229d9cb5e8dd9f47b29cf6a345bd6575a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d9cb5e8dd9f47b29cf6a345bd6575a5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ec08cf22f07249f89dfd1e4135cee6d3\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d64b24e6de6b40298f2997feae6f094d\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002217bacb71837b4d29a4ec71dc6e12086f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217bacb71837b4d29a4ec71dc6e12086f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb1eb3c3b9c7404f9df3c57041ddc4f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb1eb3c3b9c7404f9df3c57041ddc4f8\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of James Hilford, requesting that the House treat workplace bullying as a health and safety issue and create a formal jurisdiction where bullying complaints can be heard, as well as training professional and independent investigators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022947b03c585cb4e48a89a02fed6e61d3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022947b03c585cb4e48a89a02fed6e61d3f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EA paper has been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002214e9037b41a84c648dc0531bd29e0113\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214e9037b41a84c648dc0531bd29e0113\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Government Response to the Report of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee Inquiry into Health Inequities for M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00222dd84713a2f942228c7404989140cd01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222dd84713a2f942228c7404989140cd01\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003ESelect committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8ed4e66c5cb4402a63d6034de66d3ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8ed4e66c5cb4402a63d6034de66d3ad\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the petition of Hugh Ryan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the petition of James Lochead-Macmillan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the petition of Andrew Body\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Health Committee on: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe petitions of Erica Kelly, Karla Knowles, and Louisa Gommans\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe report of the Attorney-General under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 on the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe report of the Ombudsman, An investigation into the Ministry of Health\u2019s collection, use, and reporting of information about the deaths of people with intellectual disabilities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe report of the Ombudsman on the inspections of mental health facilities under the Crimes of Torture Act 1989\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe report of the Ombudsman on an unannounced follow-up inspection of Te Whare o Matairangi Mental Health Inpatient Unit, Wellington Hospital, under the Crimes of Torture Act 1989, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe report of the Ombudsman on an unannounced inspection of the mental health in-patient unit, Waitakere Hospital, under Crime of Torture Act 1989\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe District Court (Protection of Judgment Debtors with Disabilities) Amendment Bill, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe Protection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill and petitions of Anna Coervers and the Hon Clare Curran\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Regulations Review Committee on the COVID-19 Public Health Response (Air Border) Order (No 2) 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00221ff4b9401c0e4b0e9d4c2656e4d1ae41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ff4b9401c0e4b0e9d4c2656e4d1ae41\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bills are set down for second readings. The report of the Regulations Review Committee and the reports of the Ombudsman are set down for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EThe Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002235bf48a36f9042018e6e3faefa5c3773\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235bf48a36f9042018e6e3faefa5c3773\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Counter-Terrorism Legislation Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022563979ca920c4a6b9395c79af7ae46c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563979ca920c4a6b9395c79af7ae46c9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0d76a1e9d3448a2a45eb419065d77f8\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266f07c214e1b475cad0f4aba8690126b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5ee15719ba94fff9e5370db3a982c73\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6535c2279f843b8b277d37525fc3b4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6535c2279f843b8b277d37525fc3b4b\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u002259c1b7cf0618410ab2f1150f1de217c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259c1b7cf0618410ab2f1150f1de217c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes\u2014in particular, our recent announcement that the Construction Skills Action Plan has delivered early on its overall target of supporting an additional 4,000 people into construction-related education and employment. Since the plan was launched in 2018, more than 9,300 people have taken up education or employment opportunities in the construction sector through cross-Government initiatives. While there is no one thing that is going to fix the issues we\u2019re facing in the housing market, this combines with a series of initiatives we\u2019re rolling out to tackle the barriers to the construction of new homes, including the $3.8 billion fund to accelerate housing supply, repealing and replacing the Resource Management Act, implementing a National Policy Statement on Urban Development, improving access through first-home grants and loans, incentivising investment in new-build homes through exemption to brightline tests\u2014the list goes on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d29f49aedd46919082a3486ca7be1f\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So what are the criteria for councils to access the $3.8 billion housing infrastructure funding that she\u2019s just referred to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2041f97be014d97a271a4663104b849\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: What we\u2019ve already talked about publicly is the fact that whilst it will be a contestable fund, it will be on the basis that the local authority is adding to current infrastructure intentions\u2014so we want to see some additionality. There will need to be explicit commitments from third parties. It will require additional housing supply and, of course, will prioritise project readiness and pace, including capability and capacity to deliver and the speed of commencement. It\u2019s also fair to say we\u2019re working closely with both local government and iwi to make sure the final criteria are fit for purpose, and we will be wanting to see in the second half of 2021 that fund being accessed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022971b69a2de1341b9a624ffed9c90fef0\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So what is the decision-making process for calculating how much funding each council will receive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d262faadf9f84f719d01553d3983ddd5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already given a bit of a sense of the criteria that we were using for projects\u2014that\u2019s what we put into the public domain. We\u2019re refining that alongside local government, and we\u2019ll be bringing that to Cabinet with a view in the second half of 2021 to put money out. What I can say is unlike the member\u2019s proposals, where they have created a calculation per home\u2014there are issues with delivering in that way as well. The idea that you would pay after a home\u2014and I see that there are two different responses. I think Mr Bayly has said it would be after there\u2019s a code of compliance issue; the legislation I see that\u2019s proposed says something else. But essentially, either way what is being suggested is that it would be paid out to councils after the house is delivered on. The barrier for many councils is right up front, and so we based our proposal on the issues councils have raised with us, and I again, unfortunately, believe that the proposal the member has made won\u2019t solve the problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d189990f9e5e47c09c097164a97658b9\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So how many new houses, if any, will the policy she\u2019s announced enable to be built over the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022224c014df7504c83ba6bd84ccd0ab35e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Whilst I don\u2019t believe we\u2019ve put a time frame around the estimate that\u2019s been provided, the estimate that has been provided has been between 80,000 and 130,000 houses. Again, I would just make the point that the acceleration fund is very much targeted at dealing with an issue council have raised with us. I fear what the member opposite has put up is akin to their first attempt in the Housing Infrastructure Fund, where they put up loans when councils already had hit their debt ceilings. Once again, the proposal the member has put\u2014if, for instance, you saw Auckland\u2019s threshold reached of 13,000 houses, it would only allow for $82 million worth of investment in Auckland. So what I would say to the member is we agree infrastructure\u2019s a problem; I do not believe what you\u2019ve put forward is the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc4b30b5b0b340a5a210b372658e9556\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware that officials are unable to tell us how many houses were actually ever completed through housing infrastructure funding because there was no explicit link between housing and infrastructure in that loan scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d728381db2834180bcc0d6b327d939e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so not only did councils raise the concern that they\u2019d already hit their debt ceilings; there also wasn\u2019t that explicit link. We have learnt much from observing what the National Government did, and we have made sure we haven\u2019t repeated those mistakes. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022725e2d8929ed4ba581ea9751e6989cec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Can the two Christchurch members just cut it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bccfecc98294045b55245b503ac02ea\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Prime Minister instead consider implementing ACT\u2019s four-year-old alternative of sharing half the GST on new builds with the council, which Auckland mayor Phil Goff, at the time, welcomed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d437658394a49eb82def42ec8bd62c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: No, that has not been part of our plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232c83f86dcc243609b49dd51c12b0b7e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement two months ago that \u201CThe Ministry of Health has the ability to get an insight into whether or not border testing is taking place and to troubleshoot if it\u2019s not.\u201D; if so, why was case B, the managed isolation and quarantine security guard who caught COVID-19, able to go more than four months without a test?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5e6dcd4bfd54eb2ae56daa7b23b8a39\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As the member will know, one of the issues we identified at that time was that private sector employers, who are covered by the requirement to have their employees tested, were not compulsorily covered by the requirement to be part of our national register of testing. That is why the Minister undertook to change that requirement. He has done so. The order comes into force from 27 April.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d01684b4e645d09c0c67e948c2da8e\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: So why hasn\u2019t that been done earlier, since we\u2019ve had COVID-19 in New Zealand over the last 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220356cb6e25d94fa5a394a29e10a05503\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: One of the things I would point out is actually the number of people that are covered by a private sector arrangement\u2014so, outside of our core employment\u2014actually over time has been reducing. Not everyone has maintained their own register. There have been some who have been linked. But we identified the issue, orders were drafted, they\u2019ve been signed, and that comes into force from 27 April. The second point that I would make is that the legal obligation to be tested existed. It already existed\u2014and, of course, that not only existed; the employer had obligations as well. Now our departments are undergoing work to see what the follow-up will be on the fact that there was a clear breach here around the testing requirements. And I would point out that it is obviously quite difficult when an individual, as we\u2019ve been advised, has lied about being tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022252e336a940b40acb9c8b26cbb087fc5\u0022\u003EHon Judith Collins\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the statement of her COVID-19 response Minister, Chris Hipkins, from October last year, that the Government was \u201Cnow getting comprehensive reporting\u201D on border testing; if so, how did border worker case B go untested since November last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a716a257ee4bfe87fdc4833464f1f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: As I stated in my last answer, we have been advised by the employer of an issue with the accuracy of the information that was being provided to them. Secondly, we identified at that time the difference in the way that private contractors and their employees were being covered by the testing register. We looked to rectify that, and that has now been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cf1d272d55a4d888602be4435724d09\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b36e2139552478a8ed5ba4af55976e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b36e2139552478a8ed5ba4af55976e1\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7cd94e3a718448692d4aabeed3cd45a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7cd94e3a718448692d4aabeed3cd45a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The BNZ/Seek Employment Report released yesterday showed a 10.6 percent jump in job ads last month, which was the best since July last year. The BNZ says that this strong rebound in job advertising was also encouraging, given that, for the first six days of the month, Auckland was still in alert level 3. The regions are also leading the charge, with job advertisements up 21 percent, month-on-month, in both the Bay of Plenty and West Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ca28f5bdadd4ba0be8b6f8841598d5b\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on how businesses are viewing New Zealand\u2019s economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022329da78b74a44fb2ad07d9c340e5ea28\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The latest New Zealand Institute of Economic Research Quarterly Survey of Business Opinion shows an improvement in general business confidence. It finds that firms are continuing to plan for an increase in staff numbers and investment, with a net 8 percent of firms increasing staff numbers in the March quarter, and a net 18 percent planning to hire in the next quarter. Firms are also feeling more confident about investment, particularly in plant and machinery. As we continue our path to recovery, there is going to be continued volatility, particularly as businesses work through supply chain disruptions and some labour shortages. However, overall, the indicators for the economy are positive, particularly in a global context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227448917727f947a382f45aca36fccbf1\u0022\u003EBarbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdf389488a2c480ba56d735867b97a2c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: It is timely to remember that as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to spread and take lives overseas, we in New Zealand are still enjoying a relatively normal way of life. The global economy is in a fragile state; however, New Zealand tends to track well in comparison. We are investing to aid the recovery while also keeping debt down. The IMF has recently updated its projections using their comparable method of international debt, which forecasts Government net debt in New Zealand to peak at 28 percent of GDP in 2024. This compares to an advanced economy average of 94.8 percent of GDP, or 101.5 percent in the United Kingdom, 111 percent in the United States, and 55 percent in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f03c32f8ae764afb9a06e9ed54c64bf1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002264adf5fa484148cba07ed8412a72e6b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264adf5fa484148cba07ed8412a72e6b7\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022 data-id=\u00220911fd0cdc764773beef036839275dca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220911fd0cdc764773beef036839275dca\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular our recent announcements around climate change\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the work of Minister Shaw\u2014that New Zealand\u2019s become the first country in the world to introduce a law that requires the financial sector to disclose the impacts of climate change on their business and explain how they will manage climate-related risk and opportunities through the Financial Sector (Climate-related Disclosures and Other Matters) Amendment Bill that has been recently introduced to the House. And, of course, that the Government is rolling out its plan for a carbon-neutral public sector by 2025 by committing funding to a range of clean-energy projects, including coal boiler replacements, fossil fuel boiler replacements, and projects that\u2019ll achieve a total saving of around 26,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide over the next 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b68ebe4e21a4c669dd2f60e5934ae96\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by Grant Robertson writing to the chair of Air New Zealand asking that they, among other things, support economic development, maintain a comprehensive domestic route network, engage in the development of new aviation fuels for New Zealand, enhance its role as a leader for best-practice workplace relations, continue acting as a responsible corporate citizen, and achieve these objectives while operating as a commercially sustainable and capital-efficient business, ending with a note that the Minister would like to get involved in renewal of the board?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280bc0a7b1ff744d4b9dde7701b7bde9e\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5b6016e31fd416eacb1b0cf81fd22ec\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister understand that the Companies Act requires those directors to act in what they see as the best interest of the company, and they have been put in an impossible position by this letter from the Minister of Finance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21f5e466a184c26a07a842d7fd08ae1\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: To answer the first half of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30925e3e33f464f9a2ed4524644f0ba\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by her Cabinet commissioning and then releasing this report, He Puapua, and releasing it only in a highly redacted form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583de21919cd43499556b1721e92c6fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I, of course, would need to go back and see the degree of redaction, but I stand by the decisions of my Cabinet colleagues and Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226946df0df38c4ef28931697366b9888b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why hasn\u2019t the Government done as the report suggests and made a major public announcement of its plan to bring New Zealand into what the report calls \u201CDeclaration compliance\u201D, a reference to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222324fcfbcce54091a187b706af6dce1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019d say to the member, for the level of specificity that the member is asking for, I would just encourage the member to put a question on notice, and I would be happy to give a fulsome response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f6230debcd4167a172d4ed1a2c193c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: So will the Government rule out, as the report calls for, a \u201CTreaty-based constitution\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c8d95b7166477c9744378775055de5\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not quite entirely sure it sits at the core of the member\u2019s question here. We have obligations to report on New Zealand\u2019s compliance with a number of declarations that we have historically been involved in beyond just this term of office. If the member is trying to imply that there is anything other than us complying with our obligations there, he\u2019d be most welcome to state that clearly and frankly, because I really question what it is he is implying with this line of questioning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f949e3d957e942f1ac379f89bd8e4eeb\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the previous National Government under the then previous Minister of M\u0101ori Affairs, Dr Pita Sharples, actually went to sign up to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and can the Prime Minister also clarify the basis upon which the next steps towards working through a national plan of action might well be a positive progression?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e8676fa75344f6687cca5780d6d8209\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that, and with great fanfare, and that then falls upon future Governments to ensure, following that, that in real terms we act upon our obligations as signatories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd8ba98fb6849b29fb63915d7a79120\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, does the Prime Minister suppose the previous Government led by Helen Clark refused to sign the UN declaration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228307dbe85fc9489b875c8f07086ad857\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273ca364310914d59b27e74a43400c970\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have a responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b455e3306c9469c9c8dfbd06adbb07f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a question of responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221984724f10fc44ee97e197f1c08e886f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Surely, if the previous question was in order in relation to a previous Government, then a question relating to the one previous to that is in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238da1a8432094b8eb6033729562270dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, the line that I took on that was that the action of the previous Government caused an issue for this Government to have to deal with, and therefore was something for which the Government was responsible. If a previous Government, two back, doesn\u2019t do something and it causes no obligation on the current Government to do anything, then I can\u2019t see where the ministerial responsibility sits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c32cbbd28544818612a9920994978d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5a3e241dff4b8e82d0272adf8eacff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a fresh point of order, or is it the same thing being re-argued? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220092b890218a4ef5af7ee238773e6759\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s just a clarification, sir, because that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e22897833684321a9b9921b8a7c131c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s no such thing as a point of clarification, and the member knows that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b34bfeae7da4a8e9f5c6114f46a303f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Well, point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d33144c2f262415b86a201ed91935197\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Chris Bishop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddad2be8738849e29664c8be4da55708\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case now that if, in your opinion, something done by a previous Government has an implication for a future Government, that brings questions within scope? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04b3ec39a134cb09795cbb91af63a07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member should have a look at Speakers\u2019 rulings, probably around page 167, where he will find that where an action is required of the current Government\u2014if it was caused by the previous Government, it comes in. If it\u2019s not, if there\u2019s no\u2014if nothing flows that the current Government is responsible for, then the question is out of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d305eaf250c54011b4cc5c4ca416b74b\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government rule out establishing a M\u0101ori Parliament, as called for by the report He Puapua? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d04e22b4c641668e47014c593a6aa6\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, we have no intention of making such a constitutional change. However, we do commit ourselves to making sure that we are upholding our obligations as Treaty partners by making sure that, for instance, we have the same ability for M\u0101ori to be housed, to have job opportunities, to have decent health outcomes\u2014all of which, we have a long way to go. And I would hope that the member would see those as responsibilities that this Parliament, collectively, needs to act on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5fb8548a938470cbc6a0b1b2948b090\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, did her Government close kura hourua, a policy designed to help with M\u0101ori educational achievement endorsed by the Iwi Chairs Forum? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7319f8197943038ada5af3468c781d\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve had a long-held view on charter schools, and the member is aware of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b632159f34f543b1b1b4d6c767034b4a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How should New Zealanders reading He Puapua understand which parts of it the Government intends to implement and which parts it doesn\u2019t? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0de2df22eb34b0ab59b79724ec02dd8\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: This has not been a Government that\u2019s shied away from having frank conversations over the fact that, to date, we have not reached the point that we are obliged to in terms of seeing equity for M\u0101ori in the outcomes that I have just outlined: housing, employment, health. We should be open to discussing ways that we can get there, and fulfil the obligations that we place on ourselves, but, equally, ones that the United Nations is encouraging too. But you see in our formal Government responses those that we pick up and take forward, and those that we don\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9c779a1cba48a180abd752450cb9c1\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government, then, rule out \u201Csignificantly increased return of Crown lands and waters\u201D to M\u0101ori ownership, in addition to Treaty settlements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aa2209f1-1889-4c24-b51d-cb2aedc7aa93\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac2808f9945e498585d3e4c6379fd6ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon JACINDA ARDERN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to get into a hypothetical back and forth here, but, of course, we do have a Treaty process that this House has, broadly, collectively stood by and continues to do so. M\u0101ori have, rightly, raised issues around water allocation and the fact that our system today has acted on a \u201Cfirst in, first served\u201D basis, and for undeveloped M\u0101ori land, that has led to inequality and unfairness that needs to be resolved. But those are all issues successive Governments have faced. We\u2019re quite committed to try to find resolution to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229035eb52b30941a7b7870b4d32ef1768\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3f88bf5e69b4395a9df54010928b711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3f88bf5e69b4395a9df54010928b711\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does she stand by the Minister of Finance\u2019s statement that delivering $3.8 billion of grants to councils to pay for housing infrastructure is, as councils have told him, \u201Cthe most important thing we can do to help them add to supply\u201D, and when will councils start to receive these grants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00220c8ed2abf73b4c7ca84baedd1de52b14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c8ed2abf73b4c7ca84baedd1de52b14\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context that it was made. Councils have told us that helping to fund infrastructure is the most important thing that we can do to help them add to housing supply. We know that dealing with an infrastructure investment deficit that has been decades in the making is critical. Under-investment in infrastructure has limited both the amount of new land that can be used for residential development and limited the intensification potential of existing urban areas. The intent of the $3.8 billion Housing Acceleration Fund is to increase supply by creating build-ready land for housing via our large-scale programmes, land the Government already owns, private development projects, and iwi and M\u0101ori-led projects. I\u2019ll be taking the final design and criteria for the fund to Cabinet by the end of June, and the Housing Acceleration Fund will start making investments in the second half of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269f0fd0e785d47659cae2ffcef2bc7cf\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: How much of the $3.8 billion will be allocated in the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b8589d5bc98492d910263977fa84253\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve talked about on many occasions, that will depend on final designs and I will be taking a paper to Cabinet by the end of June.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f49816a870641f9b60b9125fd99da83\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Which agency will allocate the grants, and will there be independent experts involved directly in how those grants are allocated to new developments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bcf50d9157d440dbe22d3233aaceafb\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I will be taking a paper to Cabinet by the end of June, and further announcements will be made following that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b076c30936114badaaeca51dc32d5cf6\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What processes will councils and developers have to use or adopt to apply for grants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225742753bd17c406dbaa6e2a8f764b153\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: One process that we\u2019ll be looking for is building some houses, which will be in stark contrast to previous infrastructure funds that have been put in place. So if I have a look at the Housing Infrastructure Fund that the previous Government put in place\u2014and we are having to deal with the consequences of\u2014you cannot really point to any houses, because the previous Government did not put a necessity on those loans to be tied to housing. That is critical. We are a Government that is making a generational investment in infrastructure because in order to get houses, that has to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce1f3727a9745d0b4a2951ed9a7f161\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m surprised because you are very keen to follow these questions. My question to the Minister was: \u201CWhat is the process councils and developers will have to adopt or use to apply for grants?\u201D I don\u2019t think the Minister answered that question at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022741b642c318847a49956a57e25652579\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think about the first half-dozen words answered it. I should probably have stopped it at that point because it went on for far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e5f5b997994245830ce5da7b215360\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government be prioritising infrastructure that supports more new homes within existing urban areas, which will enable lower carbon and more affordable transport options for the people living in those homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260db07af757843eb9a96c1abbaa4b5f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. As I indicated in the answer to the primary question, the Housing Acceleration Fund will concentrate on both brownfields and greenfields developments. What we want to do is maximise the intensification potential within our urban areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b9c5f139c1644a98988921f9eb7a446\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen analysis from Auckland Council and the OECD that new homes in greenfields areas have an associated infrastructure cost of $140,000 per home, as well as higher greenhouse gas emissions associated with them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a4da14c8c834dd8aacdf1967f09fa91\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen lots of reports that point for the need to build climate resilient cities that require brownfields development and urban intensification, and that is precisely why the fund is looking at both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d1bf4d117e47639f30f260eae3704b\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: How is it acceptable to announce a $3.8 billion grant scheme without first determining how it will operate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022076434c364c343abb595e72049c94741\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve been over this many times in this House. Principal decisions have been made around the fund and they\u2019ve been outlined recently by the Prime Minister in her primary question. One, we will be looking for partnerships with councils. We will be looking for additionality. We will be looking for projects that wouldn\u2019t otherwise happen. We have also said that it will be contestable. But what we also know is that if this fund is going to work, now that we have made the budget allocation, we have to work with our partners. We have to work with local councils and we have to work with iwi M\u0101ori. Look, New Zealand has been waiting for this fund for decades and I am proud that our Government is delivering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbbf9df0bc0444bb868095fdea856d07\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Has she, the Minister, seen any examples of people advocating to stop adding to the supply of housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee0dedcc1ac44f30a83affd1cac125de\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, just as recently as today. I understand that on the day that National released its housing policy, its own deputy leader is actively campaigning against a development in Whang\u0101rei that would bring in much-needed houses in an area identified as having a pressing need for new houses. The National Party can\u2019t have it both ways. Either it supports the provision of new housing across the country or it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022052d4dc661e84966b6c947e8c2b033f8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00220245096d9052444ca3db3ce1c509b861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220245096d9052444ca3db3ce1c509b861\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: How will the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund support businesses to transition away from using fossil fuels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u00224f93f95d15394386bf387331cfb385d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f93f95d15394386bf387331cfb385d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced the first round of co-funding from the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund for 14 projects across our primary sectors and spread around the country, which will receive a total of $23 million. Modelling shows that this first round of co-funding will enable emissions reductions of 149,924 tonnes of carbon dioxide per year, equivalent to taking 49,000 cars off the road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfdbd53888f44aeb29c9986ce599bd2\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What effect, if any, will these investments have on emissions reductions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225050574f38de46b48d2daa204155cdd4\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Fuel used in manufacturing and production generates about 8 percent of New Zealand\u2019s emissions, and it\u2019s the second-largest source of energy-related emissions for transport. The fund will help deliver up to 10 percent of the gross emissions reductions required from the commission\u2019s first draft carbon budget for the period 2022 to 2025, at an abatement cost of between $20 and $30 per tonne of carbon dioxide equivalent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732ef80502e64e3c8abc145ca04dc535\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are some examples of projects that have received co-funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afb7d57e64604f3ea84baa027c3ecb09\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Woolworks in Timaru is the single largest wool handler in the world, and by replacing its coal boiler it will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by around nearly 12,000 tonnes each year and make the wool scouring industry in New Zealand coal free. McCain Foods in Timaru will reduce carbon emissions by nearly 34,000 tonnes each year through the installation of a new biomass boiler and by utilising fryer heat recovery technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022491de119f955464e847a83973fa6f26f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00221b9c38c354ff4f64bae72bc2345e1706\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b9c38c354ff4f64bae72bc2345e1706\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What does the COVID-19 vaccine: Illustration of volumes and timing of vaccination roll-out graph on the Government\u2019s website say is the number of doses that were due to be administered to date, and is he satisfied with the Government\u2019s COVID-19 vaccine roll-out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00226445ab521c304fe299d45302e206ee5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226445ab521c304fe299d45302e206ee5b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I released a region-by-region breakdown of the numbers that DHBs are expected to reach over the next 2\u00BD months, and this includes actuals through to the beginning of April\u2014and I\u2019m happy to table those. The graph that the member has referenced was an illustrative model of the expected delivery and uptake of the vaccine so that New Zealanders could see the overall sequencing and scale up for the entire year, and it didn\u2019t include specific numbers. In response to the second part of the member\u2019s question, I am broadly satisfied with the roll-out to date. I expect the number of daily doses administered to increase as part of the scale up. And I expect that releasing these numbers today will help district health boards to ensure that they are meeting their forecasts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab6dac7b5b04ed7a04ad44bb4558bb8\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How does one generate a line graph, which is designed to be illustrative and published to the general public, without using data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b345e57306a4074aab02014d264e272\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: The graph was designed to show the scale up. The actual numbers have been the subject of discussion with district health boards to ensure that when we published those, the district health boards were prepared for those and confident that they could deliver them. The numbers that I\u2019ve released today certainly meet that description.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f308cf552984092b822f885d3af3101\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that when COVID-19 vaccinations were identified last year as being critical to the recovery from COVID, the Government is urgently seeking a programme coordinator, two service design advisers, and several sequencing managers for the COVID-19 vaccination programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb025e1fa28044679d436f20f8cd54aa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Recruitment through different phases of the vaccination campaign has been ongoing. But if the member wants to talk about public sector capability\u2014and the woeful state of public sector capability in health inherited by the current Government, because it was run down over nine years by the last Government\u2014I\u2019m happy to engage in that debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9da3eb4c17b47d996b459579d77d555\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What details of remuneration for performing vaccinations were offered to pharmacies, and how many pharmacies so far have signed up to operate as vaccination centres?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ac6e76d8db6455c9677ac4208353ee4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not expecting pharmacies to be operating as vaccination centres until the second half of the year. The funding model for primary care, which includes pharmacies and GP practices, has been a topic of discussion between the Ministry of Health and primary-care providers to ensure that the funding is fair and appropriate. Those talks have been ongoing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f3e7128d00845ab8842dee0396b7099\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What should New Zealanders think of a Government that couldn\u2019t organise a vaccination in a pharmacy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224550bb8d7afb4c37a499282e700690d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022099c33b4359848998d29ece0bfaf601a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221a153e2f0a1499892c168c60a3fbf36\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re having us on, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0b6dbdb49c40e48e2302fa658cc81d\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Why is New Zealand ranked just 121st in the world for the number of COVID-19 vaccinations administered per 100 people, and second bottom in the OECD, when he said that we\u2019d be at the front of the queue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227393c91c1794cfaac266e148ee7378a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve indicated to the member before, we made a conscious decision to switch our vaccination campaign earlier in the year from using a portfolio of vaccines to using a predominantly Pfizer campaign. That did mean that the overall balance of vaccinations required in the second half of the year increased. In terms of the overall scale up, we have been taking our time to make sure that we are getting this right. We have a far lower wastage rate to other countries that we\u2019re being compared to. The other point that I would make is we are continuing to operate our health system in terms of its business-as-usual practices. Some of those other countries that have a much higher rate of vaccination are able to do that because their health system stopped doing anything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aed05e0b60a464182e8e3611424de6e\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying, therefore, that the Government has made an explicit and conscious decision to slow the vaccination programme down from what it decided to do earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72d6c6763cd4015b7a639eee505b5b5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: When we made the decision to switch to the predominantly Pfizer-led campaign, it did mean that our second-quarter vaccination numbers went down and our third- and fourth-quarter numbers went up based on the fact that some of the other vaccines that we were anticipating introducing earlier are no longer going to be introduced into the vaccination campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022806daa26373245a0a398a1bc2581f385\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014COVID-19 Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00223cf989b3ccbd4391abc1e9685b5e66ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cf989b3ccbd4391abc1e9685b5e66ca\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What progress has been made on the roll-out of the COVID-19 vaccine programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d76eb76a3001456c97143cd7d243ef1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d76eb76a3001456c97143cd7d243ef1a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response):\u003C/span\u003E Up to today, we\u2019ve delivered 135,585 doses of the Pfizer vaccine across the country. In the last 24 hours, we\u2019ve delivered 7,695 vaccinations, bringing the weekly total to 34,378. Forty-three percent of all of those vaccinations have been delivered in Auckland, with 19 percent of them going to M\u0101ori and Pasifika populations. A large-scale vaccination centre is opening up today in Mount Wellington, which is our second large vaccination centre capable of delivering vaccines to at least a thousand people a day when operating at full capacity. Vaccines will be initially used to vaccinate St John Ambulance staff and police. It\u2019ll operate by appointment only to those people who are based in predominantly Mount Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd0c4ca2fa7e4c3f8c5c5382271cc887\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What forecasts has he seen on the ongoing roll-out of the vaccine programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e16f30bcdcdb4182ac0ed1b8f6415257\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I released earlier today the breakdown of the numbers the DHBs are expected to reach over the next 2\u00BD months. As it stands, they are on track to deliver more than one million Pfizer doses to New Zealanders in our priority groups by the end of June. That\u2019s based on what DHBs have indicated they are confident they will be able to deliver on. It\u2019s being published online today and it will be updated weekly on the Ministry of Health website so people can track progress. It shows the planned vaccinations each week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763419c160b14f1cb672f11013863b47\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that the planned roll-out of the vaccination programme to the end of June is achievable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e998da3e3bbb4f95a64015d749446454\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. As I indicated, we\u2019ve been working with each DHB on their individual vaccination plan, to result in the forecast numbers that we\u2019ve released today. What we\u2019ve asked of DHBs in putting these forecasts together is that they be upfront and realistic about what they will be able to achieve in that time frame. That means that we can ensure that any resources can be targeted to those areas that need additional resources in order to meet the goals set in the plan. These are forecasts and not targets. They are a floor, not a ceiling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca9aaf079b240a59c2e373b48829ba6\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What is being done to ensure the roll-out of the vaccine programme is being carried out in an equitable manner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25c00661dc7415db6fd6fc28ed8a67a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: We know that M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples face persistent and pervasive health inequalities in New Zealand. Existing immunisation programmes have not always delivered equitable outcomes for them, and, therefore, tailored approaches are the most effective way to promote uptake in those communities. The ministry and district health boards are partnering together with M\u0101ori and Pacific health providers to deliver vaccinations to their local communities and to meet demand beyond their enrolled populations. Over the last week, for example, Manurewa Marae has established the first marae-based vaccination centre, and is offering information and support to people in their community so that they can make informed decisions in a wh\u0101nau-centred way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc03c513fbf47d1820482b168248922\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister going to do to increase the uptake, including a tailor-made position of M\u0101ori vaccination levels, given that M\u0101ori have the lowest vaccination level of any group so far despite being the most at risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6eb25b0aa814dda8bb01c22eb07ca21\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: As I just indicated, I think I just gave the member an example of what I hope to see a lot more of in the coming weeks, which is vaccination approaches that are as close to the communities that we need to increase vaccination rates within as possible. So in terms of M\u0101ori, I would expect to see more marae-based vaccination. In terms of smaller, local communities where we know a number of M\u0101ori live, they are a priority to get into those communities as quickly as we can so we\u2019d be looking to scale those up. The wh\u0101nau-based approach that we\u2019ll be taking will ensure that whilst the sequencing framework will guide decisions about the overall order of that, people will not be turned away. So if a wh\u0101nau show up, for example, with a number of people who meet the criteria and some people who don\u2019t, the wh\u0101nau will still be vaccinated. It is important that we\u2019re pragmatic in our decisions about making sure that people get vaccinated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229953ced9cc574996b09a5f60f1af2f31\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: When can wh\u0101nau expect to be contacted to be up-taking this vaccination offer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0ce726fba8b46c1be5a093babb7707a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Some of that has already happened. So if they\u2019re front-line border workers, for example, or the families and wh\u0101nau of front-line border workers, key workers, we have been actively in the process of contacting them now. That\u2019s predominantly being led by those administering the vaccine, so the primary health organisations, their GP practice, and so on. We will have very proactive outreach programmes to reach those communities that have otherwise proven hard to reach. We know with other vaccination and immunisation campaigns that our M\u0101ori and Pacific communities have often been more difficult to reach with those campaigns, so we are very, very focused on making sure that\u2019ve got a lot of resource targeted to make sure that we are really reaching into those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022341d3e9c589141ccb7941736f6e82233\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4a8fd8fe3c7469683e20a0fc581933e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4a8fd8fe3c7469683e20a0fc581933e\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does he agree with the Reserve Bank\u2019s statement that \u201Cland use restrictions impede the ability of the market to increase the supply of houses when demand for houses increases. As a result, house prices tend to increase more than otherwise\u201D; if so, what specific steps is he taking to reduce those restrictions in the next 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a10b4241c0824d73a536dccf22aad170\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a10b4241c0824d73a536dccf22aad170\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, which is why the Government\u2019s already introduced a number of measures to free up land supply. We\u2019ve updated the National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPSUD), requiring councils to make more building opportunities available up and out; we\u2019re actively considering measures to bring forward plan changes to comply with the NPSUD; we\u2019re already using the streamlined planning process to help councils rezone land; we\u2019re well under way in developing the replacement for the Resource Management Act (RMA); we\u2019re removing interest deductibility for existing rental properties while incentivising investment in new builds; we\u2019ve had Minister Woods\u2019 announcement of the $3.8 billion infrastructure fund to unlock a mix of private sector and Government-led developments; we\u2019re progressing more fast-track consent processes under the COVID recovery Act; and, for example, just this week I put forward a housing development of 1,000 houses south of Christchurch for fast-track consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c1754d2525f4ef78b6c5e980ff5b710\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 30 or so projects listed for fast-tracking under the COVID recovery Act have actually been approved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391667030eae46a3af380d693716bc57\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: A minority of them, because the main delay is the delay by applicants filing their applications once they\u2019ve been given approval to use the process. There have been no undue delays in consideration by any of the panels in respect of applications that have been filed by applicants, and, indeed, there are statutory time frames that guide those processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa38651a7bec4f16b534f707ae516a5a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm his reported statement that his programme of RMA reform is unlikely to affect the housing market until possibly 2024 or 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db8514205ed0406c9eebe1af565ddd31\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure that those were my words. The point I was making was that we can\u2019t wait upon RMA reform\u2014that\u2019s not going to be finished for a couple of years\u2014to respond to the current crisis. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve done all those other measures that I listed in the answer to the primary question, which have been enabled under existing legislation plus amendments that we\u2019ve made, including the fast-track consenting model. In respect of that, I would note that there are mixed views within society and, indeed, I\u2019ve received representations\u2014as have other members of Parliament\u2014from the member\u2019s colleagues in the Opposition, opposing the use of the fast-track processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf1b490872d4ffa8c6b64d361be44a2\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he act with urgency and legislate interim measures to reduce the RMA delays he describes, and to release new homes for development that are so desperately needed right now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e769cef00c4033a22445d3d0c95410\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well it\u2019s not correct to say that we haven\u2019t. I\u2019ve actually listed some of the legislative interventions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb4275df821a45a7a44825c5542cff98\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c29b5496e0d4f8fac19db673c3d92ec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bc611efba9242bebd00ee68c9ff919a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member should have listened because I have, including the fast-tracked consenting that I mentioned. I think the best approach for the Opposition would be, instead of opposing things like the urban development legislation that they voted against, to back the Government\u2019s programme and other legislative interventions that we will bring in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c708a71c0774d55afd4b242e3e19a1d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022364f8b4506c6474a8fd80c50e038f809\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022364f8b4506c6474a8fd80c50e038f809\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What advice, if any, has he received on the economic impacts of international markets rejecting New Zealand products due to glyphosate residues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00226e18191b17ba483fa52f434ab8cc7354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e18191b17ba483fa52f434ab8cc7354\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I received advice in February that Japan had implemented 100 percent testing for glyphosate in all honey from New Zealand. Any consignment that does not pass the test on arrival in Japan must either be reshipped or destroyed. I understand that a very small number of consignments of honey had been directly affected as a result. Since 21 January, the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) has introduced new requirements for glyphosate testing here prior to export to Japan. If the test results do not comply, MPI will not issue export certification for that consignment of honey. I have not had such advice relating to any other international markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293dd85fe0dac4f688f3f833a9237dd0d\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that the continued use of Roundup and other glyphosate products in New Zealand is causing economic and reputational damage to our growing $425 million honey industry, following these rejections of exports by Japanese authorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d86a0af2f1740109baf9d12cd47385f\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I take New Zealand\u2019s reputation as a healthy, ethical food producer very, very seriously. It\u2019s important to note that in regards to residues of glyphosate, it\u2019s not considered a food safety issue, but we are aware that internationally there\u2019s much discussion on this. But can we reassure people about residue levels. For example, a five-year-old child who was consuming honey with 0.1 milligrams per kilogram of glyphosate residues, which is the default maximum residue level in New Zealand, would need to eat roughly 230 kilograms of honey every day for the rest of their life to reach the World Health Organization acceptable daily intake for glyphosate. I\u2019m just saying that we recognise it is an issue but it\u2019s not a food safety issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ee3d4ea5d647a5b9389ea15deed739\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that New Zealand is falling behind international practice, given markets we export to, including Japan and the European Union, have stronger standards regulating glyphosate in honey than we do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f65c7829d484c078e71b7d45021ba61\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware that we do use glyphosate across our agricultural sectors. We don\u2019t at the same levels that they use in countries where there are genetically modified organism crops that allow the widespread use of glyphosate on food crops. We don\u2019t allow that. So we have a far lower rate of utilisation, usually for weed control. Regarding honey, it is difficult to know exactly where the bees fly, and I think the challenge for the apiculture industry is to try and ensure that they don\u2019t end up with residues from sprayed areas, like alongside the roadsides, that end up in the honey. That\u2019s why we are testing prior to any export.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228758aa7164d4442ab7b172e23f65b79a\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Following his February statement relating to m\u0101nuka honey that we need to \u201Censure it\u2019s made to the high standards that international customers expect\u201D, is he concerned that international customers will stop buying New Zealand primary products if we continue to allow the use of glyphosate; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cdf09747ab1450a86a4dceb783d551a\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Most countries around the world do use glyphosate. We\u2019re aware of the European approach to this that is still working its way through. We\u2019re aware of Japan\u2019s sensitivities to it. We will test any products that we think may be contaminated or have a maximum residue limit level that is above any level that might be considered safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d423d0e0a0b44909b7c72d68c3a570ae\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Will he consider placing new restrictions on the use of glyphosate to protect the international future of New Zealand\u2019s primary sector producers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f07e35ece66400cafbf702d5ded4ca2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: At this stage, we have no proposals to restrict it other than to encourage farmers to use it carefully, to make sure they don\u2019t spray in the wind so that there\u2019s a flow-on effect to any neighbour, to make sure that\u2014we\u2019re cautious with the use of any chemical in this country. We have robust regimes. We must keep them and ensure that we can claim\u2014and rightfully support the science that says\u2014that we\u2019re the best producers of food in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221efd2f54294e48b2b5e6c2e8ce0fb18d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce8b4515b95c46759366f74e1d8e13a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce8b4515b95c46759366f74e1d8e13a2\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What recent reports has she seen regarding Operation Tauwhiro?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4477ff82d18471b841b69bf66bcf135\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4477ff82d18471b841b69bf66bcf135\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve received a report from police advising that in just the first seven weeks of Operation Tauwhiro\u2014police\u2019s major operation to disrupt and prevent organised crime\u2014police have seized 237 firearms, seized $1.8 million in cash and assets, seized 4,712 grams of meth, and charged 202 people. I\u2019m sure all members of this House will join me in congratulating our police on their fantastic work keeping our community safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6bb14a121504c189deb41bc7db8769b\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any other reports on police disrupting the illicit drugs trade in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233445ebe7f844b4ab6551aa88570a5f8\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019ve seen reports that police and customs have intercepted a package at the international mail centre in Auckland that was found to contain up to 1.5 kilograms of liquid cocaine. Police then executed a search warrant at the Christchurch address, where cocaine and a significant amount of cash were located. I\u2019ve also seen reports from Waikato, where police have intercepted the transport of half a kilogram of methamphetamine and $10,000 in cash by organised crime groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b54a8448a2c84b71b8612daa84764a8a\u0022\u003EWillow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government supported police to disrupt and prevent organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a09d576d313a456397a4bb9b7e388c40\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve supported police, investing $450 million since we came to office, by putting more officers on the beat\u20142,500 new constables, 1,400 new fulltime-equivalents, 700 alone will be focused on organised crime. We\u2019ve banned military-style semi-automatic weapons, magazines, and parts; taken 62,000 prohibited firearms out of circulation; and passed the Arms Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a55ebb33b0347ac8ca9d81fb4972af4\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister doing to stop racial profiling of M\u0101ori in the New Zealand Police, including in Operation Tauwhiro and the latest example of officers unlawfully photographing M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0e0c86e-e14d-4daa-9bc8-1b5a3d7defeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226386a50bc5c64c76bb55275504a6d1a0\u0022\u003EHon POTO WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: While it\u2019s distressing to know that there are instances where the photographing of people is not happening according to what I would expect and what police know to be within the law, what I am confident about is that police are addressing areas of bias within the police, looking at processes and persons of interest in that regard, and they\u2019re working very hard to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f3b58d2c82c4ec1841f3831fcee95dc\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was quite clear around racial profiling. It was not about unconscious bias. What does unconscious bias mean? Does that mean bias whilst asleep?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2527162ab1549e7a8ca575a8c23c16f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff737bb7aa6844fd8757ea0c27aae9a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff737bb7aa6844fd8757ea0c27aae9a3\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Had only $67.4 million been spent by 28 February 2021 of the $145.3 million allocated in 2019 for years 1 and 2 for the new Expanding Access and Choice of Primary Mental Health and Addiction Support service, and, for the same period, had only $8.4 million of $20.1 million been spent on the Preventing Suicide and Supporting People Bereaved by Suicide initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f024772862da4babb2a638162b7e3739\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f024772862da4babb2a638162b7e3739\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I can\u2019t confirm that those figures for that period are correct. What I can confirm is that in relation to the access and choice programme, as at 31 March this year, $102 million has been committed in contract down to 30 June this year, and in relation to suicide prevention activities, roughly $10 million has been committed in contract. I\u2019ve been advised that there are a number of procurement processes that are either under way or recently completed which will see additional funding committed and spent this financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b545675ce5de4f23acf62ef0b05ffe1d\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why can\u2019t the Minister confirm those numbers are correct, when they were his answers to written parliamentary questions to me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225663829c1f35441d98a172b5463d4db8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member is confusing, I think, when the Ministry of Health enters into a contract that they\u2019re legally obliged to follow through down to the 30\u00A0June period, and somehow thinking that its obligation to continue to pay, for example, monthly payments invoiced to it for the access and choice programme somehow doesn\u2019t exist or is not an obligation on them. If he is going to use the $145 million 30 June figure, then the correct comparison to make is the commitments the Ministry of Health has actually entered into, which, as at this point, are $102 million down to that period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e65e433cde64b17b49f2878044ef6d3\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the promoting wellbeing in primary and intermediate schools programme announced in Budget 2019, that was to have spent $1.4 million in its first two years, spent no money 21 months after the announcement was made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b9cd901bec142c18a8906270dfb6711\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: That figure is correct, but as the member will see, out of a total programme of $455 million over four years, that is a small amount of spending. Other spending and commitments have been made in our schools and for young people, and those announcements have been made over the last few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a90ee822e2c14d9ab937aa194c6eecc9\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government, across 15 mental health initiatives announced in Budget 2019, as of March this year only spent $126.7 million of the allocated spend\u2014after two years\u2014of $247.7 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4129e7f6b5c47dfa689249c7859032c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t confirm the accuracy of those figures. What I can say is that this is a Government that inherited a mental health service across this country that had been neglected for nine years, had been run down, and had left people desperate. This Government had the gumption to step up, take a stocktake, and in 2019 committed $1.9 billion, an unprecedented amount of money, into an area that desperately needed it. I stand here proud, along with former colleagues, former Ministers of Health of this Government, of the commitment that we have made to seriously address the gaps in mental health that have been left by that previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228afae5bb52d143e3beaceb7833b8f1a2\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders have confidence in this Government when promised mental health funding is underspent, while reported wait times are increasing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225048c718f3b4d6e9d11f69248a60cde\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The member will know that this programme of reform, a four- to five-year programme of reform, started in July 2019. It was heavily disrupted last year because of COVID, to the point where we had service providers who had entered into contracts ask for the implementation dates or the start dates of their services to be delayed because they couldn\u2019t recruit people and they couldn\u2019t commence their services. So it is not surprising that there has been some delay in getting the full volume of services expected to be in place by now. But that\u2019s what happens when you inherit nine years of neglect in a service and you have to step up and do something really serious about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2635b0c64a4c97b8e55e0e65d72781\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faeab1326ee14477a9c9aaf50f82504f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014no, no, the member\u2019s run out. I think the member knows that, doesn\u2019t he? Question No. 12\u2014Steph Lewis. Nice try. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204f6895e572a4286bd7a8a52a477ada7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8be6fd37a374706b442e0c07b332abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8be6fd37a374706b442e0c07b332abb\u0022\u003ESTEPH LEWIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What announcement has he made about live animal exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab8e7d9e42e3499d97f1395540f8ec59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab8e7d9e42e3499d97f1395540f8ec59\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E This morning, I announced that the export of livestock by sea will cease, following a transition period of up to two years. The export of livestock from New Zealand has been a feature of our farming systems for a long time, but concerns about the risks to New Zealand\u2019s reputation from this trade have been steadily increasing, which is why in 2019 we began a review of livestock exports. The tragic sinking of the Gulf Livestock 1 ship in 2020 with the loss of 40 lives and many thousands of livestock brought those dangers to a head, and we introduced a temporary ban on livestock exports while the Heron review recommended improvements to our system. Although many of these have been implemented, there remains an ongoing level of concern with the welfare of these animals while at sea for up to three weeks. This Government had to act and it has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c46f0174f8314c78ad094a63da8fa568\u0022\u003ESteph Lewis\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government banning the export of livestock by sea?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e3209bb8b5423487047ba7b830af42\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Over recent years, we\u2019ve seen some of the reports from these ships, many of which\u2014about 80 percent of which\u2014are not designed for live exports, where conditions on board have led to many adverse animal welfare outcomes. While I acknowledge that this trade has been able to generate additional revenue for some farmers, ultimately, we aren\u2019t able to guarantee the welfare of these animals once they\u2019re at sea, and that is an unacceptable risk to New Zealand\u2019s reputation. New Zealand must stay ahead of the curve in a world where animal welfare is under increasing scrutiny if we truly want to be the most ethical producers of the finest food in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233da23ad2cd445ae81f90b85166268ce\u0022\u003ESteph Lewis\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government allowed a two-year transition period?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224828acf44175482fad86a905e89cab30\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The transition period of up to two years will allow affected businesses both in New Zealand and around the world the time to wind down the trade and adjust their operations. This is a complex process to unwind due to factors such as existing contracts, business planning, and breeding cycles, so the final exact length of the transition period will be determined pending further advice that I\u2019ll receive from the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI). In the meantime, I\u2019ve also asked MPI to provide advice on possible improvements to animal welfare on the ships during the transition period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d19461d4a9b4363a3a5ebc53a6e9159\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef641a81d434495ea889c1fd317c4400\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e152605aa9f64d6aa1f44f2e7f29c007\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi)\u003C/span\u003E to the Member in charge of the Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill: What reports has he seen on his Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u00224cd48129561544bc9d2feffa9ee4cfa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cd48129561544bc9d2feffa9ee4cfa3\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (Member in charge of the Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill):\u003C/span\u003E I have seen a report from the shadow Attorney-General on my bill that concludes that its passage would ensure our Electoral Act complies with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. This report is consistent with the report I have also seen from Professor Geiringer of Victoria University, New Zealand\u2019s renowned expert on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, that the 2018 law changes breach the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in respect of freedom of speech and freedom of association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb4a8024d2b453b82bae73259a57ee0\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Has the member seen any other reports on the bill that raise concerns about the effect of the law on New Zealand\u2019s democracy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e253c84bfbaf4a3f991f932c09d97a22\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have. I have seen a report on my bill by 23 legal academics from five law faculties, four departments of politics\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247b8d1900cc642ebab52168296de0854\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! I just want an assurance from the member that this is not a submission on the bill\u2014that it is a report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f30fa31f12a46e4bfabde89b836fa07\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is a submission from those 23 legal academics, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ab44e019abf4f55b36698b08cf8f52b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf76ecf136444295af3d86001848e494\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Speaker, I\u2019d be delighted if both yourself and the House would read that submission. It shows how important my bill is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225375c512cd943258f103281cb1f3eac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the fact that I recognised it might have meant that I have. That concludes oral questions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221604ae95e1e249928cd5028cea10dade\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek the leave of the House to table the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report on the Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Bill by the shadow Attorney-General. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277bc47ab94b04775b5642432d71894fe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that? There\u2019s none. It will be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002254fe69f2311a49aa93e6a2c96485bc16\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022988a519dd1bc4de9861beae210357121\u0022\u003ECOVID-19\u2014Evidence Given to Health Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022682f03d0cf384eae8cd6f3943e5ecaab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022682f03d0cf384eae8cd6f3943e5ecaab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from David Seymour seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the letter of expectation sent by the Minister of Finance to the chairperson of Air New Zealand. I have also received a letter from Chris Bishop seeking to debate evidence given to the Health Committee that case B in the most recent series of COVID-19 cases was not tested for COVID-19 between November 2020 and 8 April 2021. Mr Bishop\u2019s application relates to a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The COVID-19 testing regime and border controls are important matters which deserve the attention of the House. Ordinarily, I could very well accept this application; however, there is a means of debating it in the House today. The debate on the Budget Policy Statement relates to the statement itself and the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s report on it. While Speaker\u2019s ruling 132/4 points out that the debate is not as wide-ranging as a Budget debate, I think the statement and the report canvass COVID-19-related issues sufficiently to permit the House to address the matters raised in the urgent debate application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb96d467fc0a4046a7fb9ee0556f3b2d\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1fbca694aa64a07b9bdd57096eef3ff\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand\u2014Minister of Finance\u2019s Letter of Expectation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022 data-id=\u002274fdea1bb2d14e63b30961ea3d26f8a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274fdea1bb2d14e63b30961ea3d26f8a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The subject of David Seymour\u2019s letter is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. Air New Zealand is a significant company and any significant change in the Government\u2019s relationship with it is important. The matter deserves the attention of the House and there is no other opportunity to do this for about three weeks. Therefore, I call on David Seymour to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea0a51a27eb7410792bf42836f09bdaa\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221513d70666d6405f804d2aacf339fb09\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u2014Grounds for Acceptance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b78d8a3523b44e378f232b5639cc290a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b78d8a3523b44e378f232b5639cc290a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to David Seymour for slightly interrupting his kicking off this debate. My point of order is not to do with that. It is do with the ruling that you made on Mr Bishop\u2019s application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhilst I understand you\u2019ve ruled that the debate should not be held today, and I understand your reasons for doing so, your indication that in a different set of circumstances a debate might be held raises some concern in that Mr Bishop\u2019s application relates to a particular individual. There are issues of natural justice when Parliament is being asked to scrutinise the actions of one individual member of the public, and I\u2019d ask you to re-think whether such an application in the future would be treated consistently with the ruling that you had indicated it might do in a different set of circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThat individual would not be part of the debate. They would not have the ability to\u2014the very issue of the statements they have made are ultimately going to be a large part of the subject of the debate, and there are other investigations ongoing, including whether or not the person concerned may be subject to other forms of sanction for those actions. Therefore, that would seem to me to be quite unwise for the Parliament to, effectively, be acting as judge and jury regarding that particular individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022903b12cca316460e9902133beb986a1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022903b12cca316460e9902133beb986a1d\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280338f6f30694e74b07f1f6dcb9c0098\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If the member thinks he can add to it, yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5c327ea08640068cbd8b2f502ade57\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was going to make the point that my application is quite specific around the contextual circumstances to do with case B. It is not a litigation of what happened with case B. And the second point I\u2019d make is that the Prime Minister, under privilege in question time, accused case B of lying. So, if there is anyone litigating exactly what case B did or didn\u2019t do, it is the Government itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022307def0c8462476bb32a6e2302d0f8df\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bbf195e4a1048248eb2e468dd162683\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand\u2014Minister of Finance\u2019s Letter of Expectation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000234\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb6a1c9f1d634bf3b4d26d56952e5cf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb6a1c9f1d634bf3b4d26d56952e5cf3\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat matter is a letter sent by Grant Robertson on behalf of the Government to Dame Therese Walsh, the chair of Air New Zealand. This letter has been described by Fran O\u2019Sullivan, one of our most senior journalists and respected business journalists, in the New Zealand Herald as a \u201Cshocker.\u201D And she does not use that term lightly, because that\u2019s exactly what this letter is. It is a letter sent to the business, a commercial airline that has achieved enormous success and many international awards along with an exceptional reputation amongst New Zealanders. It\u2019s been sent to that business and it set out a series of mutually competing and, in some cases, contradictory expectations that, in my view, put the directors of that company in an impossible position. The implications are not just for Air New Zealand, they are for all of New Zealand, because what this letter means is that good people who sign up to be directors on companies to aid New Zealand by offering their skills may find themselves put in positions where they simply cannot discharge their legal obligations with the political pressure that surrounds them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI recognise the narrowness of this debate, but it is worth acknowledging some of the storied history that got us here. Not so long ago, in some people\u2019s lives at least, we had a Prime Minister who was also the Minister of Finance and ruled and micro-managed with an iron fist. Rob Muldoon went over to the UK and agreed that the National Airways Corporation, or Air New Zealand, would use Rolls-Royce jet engines instead of General Electric, even though Air New Zealand was not set up to service Rolls-Royce engines. So the people trying to run the business went through the machinations of trying to actually figure out how to land and take off on time and serve their customers and run an effective airline while dealing with the most unconscionable political interference. The reasons that we have an State-owned enterprise (SOE) model, the reasons that Air New Zealand and many other SOEs are operating as private businesses with an objective to their shareholders, is actually to avoid that kind of micro-managing interference that makes it impossible for the directors and management of a company to deliver a useful service to their customers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd this letter says, given the critical role Air New Zealand plays in the success of New Zealand, both socially and economically, the Government\u2019s enduring expectations for Air New Zealand are to be a \u201Cnational airline\u201D, and it must continue to operate to support economic development, including access to international markets for our exporters and international tourism linkages once international borders reopen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, if the directors are to take the letter\u2014which has come from someone who\u2019s the Deputy Prime Minister and the major shareholder\u2014seriously, then they\u2019ve got to do that. But they\u2019ve also got to maintain comprehensive domestic route networks that allow people and goods to move across New Zealand in a timely fashion at a reasonable cost. Well, to what extent should the directors put weight on that particular matter? And then they have to demonstrate their commitment to environmental sustainability, despite being an airline whose primary business is blasting large vehicles through the air. And they have to also engage with the development of new aviation fuels for New Zealand. So, so far, they\u2019ve got to be a network for exporting and connecting with the rest of the world, maintain a domestic network that\u2019s comprehensive\u2014whatever that means\u2014at a reasonable cost, and deliver goods and people across New Zealand in a timely manner, but they\u2019ve also got to try and save the planet by engaging in the development of new aviation fuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut wait, there\u2019s more. You might think that Air New Zealand would have to lean quite hard on its employees in order to get them to deliver what is starting to sound like a monumental task, but, actually, they also have to be a leader in best practice workplace relations, given it is one of New Zealand\u2019s largest employers. So they not only have a role as an airline delivering things around the world and New Zealand, not only do they have to help invent new fuels, but they also\u2014according to this letter from the Deputy Prime Minister, from their chief shareholder\u2014have to actually make sure that they\u2019re a world leader in workplace relations. And then they have to continue acting as a responsible corporate citizen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, I have to assume that that was put in as a bit of filler. But anyway, that\u2019s another thing that they have to do. If the board are going to discharge their duties in good conscience, then they also have to do that. And then, here\u2019s the kicker\u2014here\u2019s the kicker\u2014they have to achieve these objectives while operating as a commercially sustainable and capital efficient business. So not only do they have multiple, and at times conflicting, objectives put on them by the Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand, they also have to do it while making good use of capital and actually be commercially sustainable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThese are not all the objectives that the directors will have. The directors also have an objective, which is in the Companies Act, section 131 if I remember correctly, that they must act in accordance with what they see as the best interests of the company. Now, if you are a director, somebody of serious calibre, in that sort of position, who has options, who is invited to be on a range of different boards\u2014in some cases in New Zealand but in many cases, for our top directors in New Zealand, across the Ditch and further afield as well\u2014what has just happened to the attractiveness of serving our national carrier, of being on the board of Air New Zealand? Well, you are put in a nearly impossible position where you may not be able to achieve all of the conflicting objectives you have, including those recently given to you in a rather aggressive letter by the Deputy Prime Minister of the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then\u2014here\u2019s the kicker\u2014here\u2019s what comes next: see, that is a difficult situation but some people might say, \u201CYou\u2019re taking it too seriously. Maybe it doesn\u2019t really have the kind of weight and gravity that\u2019s been made out by people like Fran O\u2019Sullivan in the New Zealand Herald.\u201D Well, here\u2019s what it says next, the letter says\u2014menacingly, I would say\u2014\u201CI would like to be involved in the renewal of the board.\u201D Now, these are smart people, they can read on the line and between the lines, and they know what it means. It means: \u201CIf you don\u2019t fulfil my fantasy as a shareholder, then I am going to find other employment for you; actually, I won\u2019t\u2014I\u2019ll just make sure that you\u2019re not reappointed on this board.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut this is not just a shame because of the damage it does to Air New Zealand. Yes, it is true: it is wrong, it will harm the quality of people who want to be on and remain on the Air New Zealand board, and it will affect the value of the company and its operation. All of those things are true. But it is worth remembering that the SOE model is applied to Air New Zealand amongst a number of organisations, and there is quite a range of them. There are some very important businesses in the electricity generation space. Now, we have a major issue with electricity generation right now. There is a shortage of electricity. Prices are high. It is threatening the deindustrialisation of New Zealand. We need quality governance in the generation and \u201Cgen-tailer\u201D space if we are going to have a competitive energy market that is also going to achieve the objectives of more environmentally friendly electricity. Those were some of the big SOEs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat message does this letter\u2014and they\u2019ve all read about it, I can guarantee you; there won\u2019t be a single corporate director in this country who is not aware of what is going on here. What affect does it have on the people on those boards? And it is a few others. It is organisations that are SOEs that hold data for the weather and actually do all sorts of useful services. Well, they are all going to be tarred with the same brush that Grant Robertson has tarred Air New Zealand with. That means that we are going to have a decline in the quality of governance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESome people might say, \u201CWell, this is just one instance. We\u2019re on new ground here.\u201D Actually, I think it is important that public policy is evidence-based. We, over the last 40 years, have had the benefit of enormous evidence of over $2 trillion of privatisations, and there have been studies\u2014there have been studies of those studies\u2014there have been people like Phil Barry, the economist here in Wellington, who have played a role in evaluation the effects of shifting Government enterprises from public ownership to private. And guess what! Private and privatised entities, in the long run, on average, over time, outperform public entities like for like in terms of productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo not only is it, on the face of it, wrong what the Minister has done to Air New Zealand\u2019s board, we actually have good reasoning and good evidence and good data built up over many decades which tells us that this action by the Minister is going to make us all poorer. And that leads you to the question: what can we do about it? Because anybody can point out what is wrong, but the next thing we need to do is actually figure out how we can have some honest conversations about uniting New Zealanders behind good ideas that will make us more prosperous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat the Minister could do is a little bit like what another Minister did just before question time. Stuart Nash rang up Nicole McKee and said, \u201CSorry, I called you a nutter\u201D, and Nicole McKee very graciously accepted that apology. I think we saw the true colours of both politicians. Well, Grant Robertson has the opportunity to show his true colours and say, \u201CI\u2019ve made a mistake here. It is wrong what I have done. I\u2019m actually prepared to go and say that this is not a good way to operate. This is not a good way for a shareholder to operate a company. If you want a company to achieve certain objectives, then, actually, you\u2019ve got to allow them the freedom to actually pursue those objectives, otherwise, if I know what they should be doing, then maybe I don\u2019t need a board anyway. Instead of what I\u2019ve done, I\u2019m going to rescind the letter.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EGrant Robertson should rescind the letter that he has sent to the board, and send a signal to governance organisations and particularly SOEs up and down New Zealand that this Government does not engage in wanton interference in commercial affairs, and that it respects the people that have been appointed to governance positions and it is going to uphold the best practices that attract the best people to govern the organisations that we need to be well governed in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat is the opportunity that the Minister of Finance has, and if he is not prepared to do it for Air New Zealand or for those in governance roles or for the wider country and the future of SOEs, here is another reason why he might do it. What does he think the long-term effect\u2014other things being equal, you know, without the current monetary policy conditions\u2014on the share value of Air New Zealand is going to be for all of those New Zealanders who have KiwiSaver interests in Air New Zealand? What does he think it is going to be in the long term? Does he really think that Air New Zealand is going to be a more profitable company for those investors in the long term, and on average, with him sticking his ore in and interfering in its governance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd if the Minister wants to get up and tell all of those New Zealanders that their investment is better with him running it, then that is a very interesting claim for him to make. I will be interested to see if he does. But what would be far better is if he apologised to those investors, apologised to Dame Therese Walsh, apologised to those in governance positions in Air New Zealand and SOEs up and down New Zealand, and affirmed his Government\u2019s commitment to trusting people that have been appointed to do the job, and let them get on with it without political interference. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022302387c1b89b44bdb96a0740ac0a8ef3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022302387c1b89b44bdb96a0740ac0a8ef3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government, on behalf of New Zealand, exercises a 52 percent shareholding in Air New Zealand. Air New Zealand is a company that has served New Zealanders incredibly well over recent times. It was a very challenging period for every airline in the world when COVID-19 hit. And one of the things that happened when COVID-19 hit was that Air New Zealand\u2014like other airlines, it has a very extensive programme of investments already put out for the future, it also has a very expensive day-to-day running cost. And in that situation, and in that moment, the Government of New Zealand, on behalf of the people of New Zealand, made sure that the airline did not become insolvent. That was the prospect facing New Zealand and Air New Zealand. So a $900 million loan facility was announced. That is a good example of the way in which a Government-backed airline can not only provide terrific services to its people and to people who want to come here but also represent a particularly sound investment option where it is the situation we have in New Zealand, where it is 52 percent owned by the Government and 48 percent owned by other shareholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ETo answer part of Mr Seymour\u2019s question: he will be pleased to know that the share price for Air New Zealand is around about $1.77 today. It is up 74 percent from last year, up from last month, and with a great deal of confidence that an airline\u2014and think about this: this is an industry that has been put on its knees by COVID-19, and Air New Zealand is up from a year ago, in part because of the confidence that has been built up by the fact that this is an airline with a majority shareholder who cares about making sure that the business works and cares about making sure that we have an airline that will service all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other problem for Mr Seymour is that it is quite clear he\u2019s never served in a role in Government where you\u2019re required to work with a State-owned enterprise, because, Mr Seymour, they all get letters of expectation\u2014all of them. So Mr Seymour was very, very worried, for example, about weather forecasting before. He was very concerned there, I presume, about the MetService. All of them get letters of expectation\u2014that\u2019s what we do. It\u2019s the way we express the Government\u2019s expectation. But Mr Seymour hasn\u2019t been there, so he doesn\u2019t know that. When it comes to Air New Zealand, the way in which the Crown\u2014the Government; the 52 percent shareholder\u2014is expressing its expectations is exactly what a majority shareholder would do in the private sector as well; that\u2019s exactly the way it plays out. We make clear our expectations as the majority shareholder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, nothing in the letter than was sent to Dame Therese Walsh is a surprise to Air New Zealand. It is the subject of the conversations that we have been having with Air New Zealand over the course of the last year in the wake of COVID-19. Absolutely everything written in that letter has been the subject of what we as a Government have discussed with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is important to note, as the member did, that the objectives of Air New Zealand remain to be commercially sustainable and a capital-efficient business\u2014that\u2019s important. That\u2019s one of the ways in which New Zealand will be well-served by having a sustainable airline that\u2019s able to go about its business. But as the 52 percent shareholder, the Crown, on behalf of the people of New Zealand, is rightly expressing the other things that we want from our ownership stake. And the first of those is the concept of a national airline. And nothing has been more important during the COVID-19 period than having a national airline. The ability for the Government to be able to support airlines to be able to fly in and out of New Zealand, to make sure that our exports continue to fly when airlines around the world were shutting their services down\u2014that would have shut New Zealand\u2019s exporters out from the world\u2014having a national airline, one that we 52 percent own, allowed us to be able to continue to support those exporters. So, actually, this is why we do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Seymour has an ideological objection to public ownership; I get that. That\u2019s fair enough. If that\u2019s how he feels about it, that\u2019s fine. But what COVID-19 has demonstrated is that it matters to New Zealand that there is a public stake in this airline and it\u2019s part of why that is in here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second element of the letter that Mr Seymour chose to highlight was the idea that there was some outrageous proposition that the Government, as the 52 percent shareholder, might ask Air New Zealand to maintain a comprehensive domestic route around New Zealand. Now, under Mr Seymour\u2019s vision of the way Air New Zealand would operate, with the Government completely disinterested, not part of it at all, we wouldn\u2019t be flying into Hokitika, we wouldn\u2019t be flying into Kerikeri, we wouldn\u2019t be flying all around New Zealand, and that\u2019s the question that Mr Seymour and Mr Bayly\u2014who I know is worried about this as well\u2014have to answer when Mark Mitchell says, \u201CI want to get to Kerikeri.\u201D, and they say, \u201CSorry. No need for a comprehensive domestic route around New Zealand. No need for the airline to be able to get people from place to place.\u201D And I know there are members opposite who\u2019ve lobbied very, very hard to make sure that Air New Zealand flies to their particular destination, their place in the world, and that wouldn\u2019t be in Mr Seymour\u2019s vision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo the idea that there would be a comprehensive domestic network is clearly important in our reason for having an airline. The corporate citizen role, the workplace relations role\u2014these are all basic elements of being a good corporate citizen in the world, and one that we would expect of all New Zealand companies and ones with public ownership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn the matter of environmental sustainability, again, here Mr Seymour\u2019s showing his inexperience again. This is a conversation with Air New Zealand. They want this. They know that the future profitability of any airline in the world relies upon adjusting to the carbon-constrained world that we\u2019re living in. Every airline in the world that wants to continue is working on this. So the idea that they would be engaging in the development of new aviation fuels is actually what will make them commercially sustainable into the future. Mr Seymour might deny climate change, but, happily enough, the aviation sector actually gets it, and they want to be a part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the question of board membership, again, I don\u2019t know if Mr Seymour has worked this out, but a 52 percent shareholder in any company of any description is going to have a say in who\u2019s on the board\u2014it\u2019s how it works. And so the paper outlines the fact that we have that expectation. Of course we have that expectation. On behalf of New Zealanders, if we were to take the approach that Mr Seymour is proposing, we would be letting New Zealanders down. We\u2019d have a 52 percent stake and we\u2019d be washing our hands of it and saying it doesn\u2019t matter\u2014that hasn\u2019t worked for New Zealand when it comes to an airline in the past, and that is why that is in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnd then, as indeed the member who moved the motion noted, we\u2019ve gone on to say that, actually, all of the duties those directors have still apply. They know that\u2014they know that they can manage this business. It\u2019s only Mr Seymour and a handful of people with ideological reasons for opposing public ownership who have any problem whatsoever with a Government actually expressing why it is that we own an airline. And when we look at the future of Air New Zealand, what we have outlined in our letter of expectations makes very clear to them what we as the 52 percent shareholder expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor minority shareholders in a company like Air New Zealand, one of the things that they get confidence from is the fact that when there is a public ownership of that other 52 percent\u2014when it is owned by the Government\u2014they know the Government\u2019s not going to let that airline fail. We demonstrated that in COVID-19. We stepped in to make sure that it didn\u2019t. There is, in fact, a premium for those minority shareholders in knowing that the majority shareholder will never let it go, and that is what has happened here. We know that as a Government we are committed to ownership of Air New Zealand. Quite clearly, if David Seymour was involved in the Government, you couldn\u2019t guarantee that\u2014it\u2019s open slather. The people of the regions of New Zealand would have to be wondering if they\u2019d have an air service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s a challenge for Andrew Bayly when he gets up next. If he one day\u2014decades into the future\u2014ends up in a Government with David Seymour, is he going to stand up for regional New Zealand? Is he going to make sure that regional New Zealand is served by Air New Zealand? Because that\u2019s what David Seymour just told us: no domestic route required. You don\u2019t have to guarantee anything. People all around New Zealand now know that David Seymour doesn\u2019t care whether or not they get serviced by Air New Zealand. So Andrew Bayly needs to tell us that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOf course, one thing I would say about all of this is that it probably does push up Christopher Luxon\u2019s chances of running the National Party. If there\u2019s that much obsession on that side of the House about running airlines, then I imagine that that would be probably now right at the top of their list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we\u2019ve taken very seriously our role in making sure that the State-owned enterprises that we continue to manage and run on behalf of New Zealanders, the Crown-owned companies, and indeed the mixed-ownership model companies, have continued to be able to run in such a way as they balance their responsibilities. They are listed companies in the case of Air New Zealand in those mixed-ownership model companies\u2014the directors operate in that way. But as a majority shareholder, on behalf of the Government and on behalf of New Zealanders, I would be letting New Zealanders down if I simply stood back, washed my hands, and said, \u201CLet the market rule in this situation.\u201D That\u2019s not why we own an airline. That\u2019s not the reason we do it. We have a majority stake in an airline because it\u2019s a critical part of our infrastructure, of our economic development, of our tourism offering\u2014all of those things are important. And if we as a Government were to step back and do as Mr Seymour would have it, then we would not be acting in the best interests of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EHe is also, I think, taking a very limited view of the capability of corporate governance in New Zealand. All of the people that we look to appoint to Air New Zealand, and indeed the people who are on the Air New Zealand board understand that when they are in Air New Zealand they\u2019re part of something with a massive legacy to New Zealand. They\u2019re part of something that matters to people in communities all over New Zealand. They\u2019re part of something that matters to our economic development. They\u2019re proud to serve on that Air New Zealand board and they know that it\u2019s a board where there is majority public ownership\u2014they knew that going in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis letter is writing down, putting on paper, the expectations of us as the Crown on behalf of New Zealanders for what we\u2019re looking for from our airline. It will continue to be commercially viable because it is a good airline with a great reputation, but it\u2019s also an airline in the middle of the worst global crisis for airlines that we have ever seen. And like other countries around the world, all of those Government-owned airlines and, indeed, private-owned airlines are taking another look at their business model. They\u2019re taking a look at what the future looks like when tourism won\u2019t return in the way that it has been for some time. They\u2019re taking a look at it in the context of climate change. All of that is about making sure we\u2019ve got a modern airline that is focused on serving the needs of all its shareholders, and at the same time doing the right thing as a national airline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf there are people who are ideologically opposed to us having that, playing that role, that is for them to decide. But on this side of the House, we are committed to ensuring New Zealanders and New Zealand exporters have access to that kind of airline. And we have not seen, I don\u2019t believe, in this period of COVID, any diminution of the duty of Air New Zealand directors as both corporate directors and on the role they play in making sure that that national airline operates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am extremely proud of Air New Zealand. I think it is an airline that has served New Zealand well. It\u2019s had its ups and downs. Many of those downs, Mr Seymour, is when the Government did exit from it, and then what happened? Michael Cullen had to come in and rescue it because it had gone wrong. Mr Seymour has this absolutely blind ideological view that if the private sector\u2019s running it, it\u2019ll be brilliant, and if the public sector\u2019s running it it won\u2019t work. Well, that didn\u2019t happen in Air New Zealand, Mr Seymour, and the Government had to step in and sort it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Government stepped in again under COVID-19 and sorted it out, and now we\u2019re going to continue to work with Air New Zealand to make sure that they, yes, are a commercially successful airline, but they are also able to achieve these objectives on behalf of their majority shareholder. There is a reason why we own Air New Zealand, and it is to make sure that we achieve the objectives that are in this letter. There is no doubt in my mind that any Government who went through COVID-19 in the way that our Government did would end up writing a letter like this to put down on paper why a national airline matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI am pleased to have written the letter. I know that Air New Zealand will continue working with us to make sure our people, our exporters, and our communities are well-served, despite the ideological views opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd777afdcc80404caa5f6e7da33fe08d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd777afdcc80404caa5f6e7da33fe08d\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the leader of ACT, to demonstrate he\u2019s a good follower of the news. I note that he seemed to repeatedly refer to Fran O\u2019Sullivan\u2019s article but yesterday Hamish Rutherford wrote an article which is headed, and I quote, \u201C\u2026 Air New Zealand letter put airline board in \u2018invidious position:\u2019 \u2019\u2019\u2014that was the heading. Also, he must have been following the radio this morning, because, of course, Mike Hosking picked it up as an item of importance. So I\u2019m glad that Mr Seymour is following our lead, which is very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think this whole issue is about whether or not Mr Robertson is the new reincarnation of Mr Muldoon. I say that because when I took over the job as shadow Treasurer late last year, I called on Mr Robertson to act in terms of section 68B of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, and he called me the reincarnation of Mr Muldoon but subsequently followed my advice. This is another example of the Minister of Finance acting as someone who does not understand the current situation, and I\u2019ve got to say I found the speech from Mr Robertson rather troubling, because I don\u2019t think he has a proper appreciation of the dynamic in which his letter has landed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI thought it would be useful just to give a little bit of background. The first thing is that the Government, quite rightly, offered to advance the company last year $900 million at a rate of 9 percent, which at the time was an incredibly high interest rate. The company has taken up roughly about $350 million of that loan. That loan of $900 million was offered without any letter of expectation. The troubling bit about this change is that very recently the Minister offered another $600 million, which took the total offer to Air New Zealand to 1.5 and reduced the interest rate from 9 percent to 5.3 percent. Bearing in mind that the company\u2019s only taken up $350 million, the most troubling thing is why the Minister took it upon himself with this second tranche of lending to the company to then write this letter dated 8 April. So that\u2019s the first issue: why would you in the first instance\u2014and he talked about it before; trying to support the business. He did that in a manner free of interference from the company but the second tranche came with significant conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also worthwhile pointing out that it is well understood in the market that the Minister has had quite a significant involvement on the timing of the possible capital-raise of the company. Of course, the capital-raise, raising new funds, would have dealt with some of the funding issues that Mr Robertson sought to address with the second tranche of $600 million. So whether in fact it\u2019s appropriate and to what extent the Minister has been involved in director negotiations\u2014and it is well understood by the market that the capital-raise has been delayed on a number of occasions and particularly from March, and everyone in the market is expecting that the next capital-raise will be completed by the end of September depending on whether or not Mr Robertson will agree to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo the issue is\u2014and what has been raised\u2014whether the letter is the appropriate instrument to adopt. The Minister was very clear to say that \u201Cas a minority shareholder I can do what I like,\u201D and he made the point that many State-owned enterprises (SOEs) receive letters of expectation from the Minister. I would say to you that that is correct\u2014if you are on the board of KiwiRail you get a letter of expectation from the Minister\u2014but the difference with this one is that this a listed company. All the others SOEs, other than the electricity companies, are not listed. And in the sense that they\u2019re not listed and don\u2019t have to operate under the stock exchange rules, then issuing a letter of expectation is perfectly appropriate and takes place regularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe issue is that the Minister wrote a letter to a company that\u2019s listed on the stock exchange, and the worst part about the letter was the nature and tone of the letter. If the letter had been advisory, that would have been OK. If the Minister had made clear his views around his expectation in an advisory sense, that would have been OK. But the letter is not written in that tone. The letter is very specific about requirements that Air New Zealand has to achieve. It talks about the continuing operation of the business, continuing to maintain a comprehensive domestic network, continuing to demonstrate its commitment to environmental sustainability, and demonstrating a commitment to best-practice work places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s fine as a general principle and in terms of advice, but the issue this strikes at is that as a listed company board member you are operating in a totally different framework. And that is you are subject to the listing requirements, and you have to operate, under company law, in the best interests of the company. The issue with this letter of expectation is that what it says is, \u201CThis is what you shall do.\u201D The issue is if you are running Air New Zealand you need to be, if you\u2019re a director, free to operate that company in the best interests of the company and its shareholders\u2014and that means all shareholders. And there will be times, and I would think that in difficult times right now, the company may take a decision to reduce certain domestic linkages. It may choose to do other things with industrial relations because its first priority is to protect the company, and this is where the Minister has overstepped the mark. He has overstepped the mark in the sense that he has given a direction to the company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that one of the most fundamental principles\u2014and I\u2019ve mentioned this before\u2014is this requirement under the Companies Act to act in the best interests of the company. That really underpins all directorships, and when you overlay that with a clear statement that the Government wishes to be actively involved in the reshaping of the board, that gives rise to a potential conflict of interest and, I think, an implied threat. And I think this is where the Minister has been ill-advised and has shown poor judgment in writing a letter of this nature to this company, which is a listed company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think this is a real issue, because in terms of the proposed capital-raise, one of the issues\u2014and I\u2019ve been speaking to investment banks that may or may not be involved in the process but certainly have a view on it\u2014is whether or not this level of interference that the Minister has shown that he is prepared to make will in fact lead to certain investors who might have otherwise invested, taking a second look at this and perhaps not investing in the company. If there are fewer investors, it will mean that the capital-raise will have to take place at a lower price, which means that the value of Air New Zealand is lower, and this is the point that Mr Seymour was making well before. This intervention has the potential to be a chilling impact on investors, and I think, again, that this is where the Minister has shown particularly poor judgment. That\u2019s what I was talking about before\u2014this tendency to throw the weight around in circumstances that are not appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last point I want to make, which is the fourth point, is that in the letter he clearly refers to the issues around what is expected of executives of the company. It is clear that directors run the company and set the policy. Executives implement the policy of the board. This reference to executives in the letter is a fourth transgression of that letter, and, again, the Minister has shown absolutely poor judgment in writing a letter that\u2019s ill-advised and trying to cut across or assert the requirements of directors and the responsibilities of directors. I think we\u2019re wondering now whether Mr Robertson is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224267b29317dc43038937acadbe1a19e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223d2112e72f1840d2adbc8bc8f35167ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d2112e72f1840d2adbc8bc8f35167ed\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I really couldn\u2019t disagree more with the previous speaker, Andrew Bayly, and Mr David Seymour in their speeches. On behalf of the Green Party, I rise to, if anything, criticise the Government for not having stricter requirements of Air New Zealand\u2014in terms of the money that taxpayers are putting forward to Air New Zealand, that they do more in terms of climate change. I have no doubt that the company is interested in that, and that the Government, as the largest shareholder, is interested in taking action on climate change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EReally, what\u2019s at the heart of the criticism from the National Party and the ACT Party is a kind of ideological belief\u2014a religion\u2014that really permeated economics departments from the 1980s and 1990s. Despite Mr Seymour\u2019s claim for the evidence to be on his side, it actually really isn\u2019t, and I refer Mr Seymour to papers by the IMF and others who have talked about where the ideology around neoliberalism actually went too far and has resulted in less economic growth and has resulted in less efficiency. Perfect examples of this are the privatised trains in Britain, which require heavier subsidies than they did when they were publicly run; the privatised health system in the United States, which delivers healthcare at a far higher cost than countries that have public health systems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to things that are public goods\u2014and transport is one of those things where it\u2019s very difficult to commercialise the full benefits, and the impacts of transport infrastructure and transport vehicles are far beyond the individual people using them. Airplanes have an impact on the climate, they have an impact on the people who live near the airports, they have a benefit for the people who are flying on the airplanes, but they also have external impacts. It is entirely appropriate in this day and age, where we\u2019ve seen\u2014post the global financial crisis, post-COVID\u2014in the age of needing to respond urgently to climate change, that that failed ideology of the 1980s and 1990s, which is still well and alive in the most right-wing parties in our Parliament\u2014has been proven wrong. We cannot rely on individual organisations focusing on maximising their own private monetary profit to deliver better outcomes for the whole world. It\u2019s just not going to. That should be obvious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo when we think about a company\u2019s shareholders being required to think of the best interests of the company, it\u2019s got to be beyond the best interest in terms of financial return to shareholders. Because the company exists on planet Earth and it exists in relationship with other people. If planet Earth is overheating and we\u2019re being hit by massive storms that make it impossible for people to travel, then that\u2019s going to negatively impact the company. So we\u2019re thinking about the company as more than just an individual organisation that is looking to make the most money possible. Because they can do that by externalising their pollution costs, they can do that by abusing their staff and underpaying them, they can do that in all means of unethical ways, and it actually hasn\u2019t worked. One more example, for the right of the House: large oil companies that deliberately hid information and ran campaigns against scientists to confuse Governments, confuse people, about the reality of climate change until now when it\u2019s almost too late, and we almost don\u2019t have enough time to act. They did that so they could sell as much oil as possible\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281dda8c1122145648a5f0ae7fde6159f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253a6411477284e928eadaf3389848608\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b539a68a04a4ec6a195190cba1d96d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It has run pretty wide, right from the beginning, but I think we\u2019ve now got well beyond State-owned enterprises and Government companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584b19b009a44763bb48b458bbb06648\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, it is absolutely relevant to my argument. It is impossible for me to respond to Mr Seymour\u2019s debate without referring to the evidence that rebuts what he said in his speech\u2014that private organisations are always more efficient than public organisations, that letting private organisations pursue private profit for shareholders is better for everyone. It is simply not true. We have evidence of decades of environmental devastation, of biodiversity loss, and that is relevant. It is relevant to our view in the Green Party\u2014and, I think, shared by the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002279db8b64-1f9b-4416-9b81-a12963db9cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216256bb2eff14a68acfbe4baec176523\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If that was a point of order, the member\u2019s won, keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022238c80eec5bc4b4fa489b430acbfac74\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that the Government has a responsibility on behalf of its citizens and the environment in which they live to use its collective power to get better outcomes for all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s entirely appropriate to send a letter of expectation such as this to a State-owned enterprise or a mixed ownership model company like Air New Zealand expressing the values that we would like to see the company operate with. If anything, we need more of that, because in order to face the challenges that we are collectively facing, we need greater accountability. The requirement or legal responsibility of company directors to pursue the best interests of the company in this narrowly defined idea of maximising the return for shareholders has cost us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut, actually, this is entirely consistent with the best interests of the company, because the company\u2014Air New Zealand\u2014is going to be better off in a world where climate change is not an existential threat. Air New Zealand is going to be better off as a company in a world by training its employees well and being a best-practice employer, which it has been. Indeed, I think this is entirely consistent, these expectations are actually consistent, with how Air New Zealand has operated and why it has such a good reputation, and why it had such good staff retention for a very long time. Absolutely, it\u2019s appropriate for the people of New Zealand to say, \u201CWe have a stake in this airline, and we want to make sure that it\u2019s meeting our needs as a country, our needs for our people to get around.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, of course, one of the other points that I would make is that what we\u2019ve seen in Europe is that where there\u2019s been extensive investment in passenger rail, now countries are actually shutting down flights where passenger rail services exist. This is something that is beyond this particular debate, but we are actually limited in New Zealand because the privatisation of our railways for many decades means that we\u2019re not in a position to have really great passenger services. We\u2019re in a position of playing catch-up, and that limits New Zealanders\u2019 ability to be able to get around the country while reducing emissions. So, obviously, that\u2019s more than Air New Zealand could address, but being able to look into sustainable fuels is certainly something that they will have to do, and they would be aware that they have to do anyway, to be able to be successful as a company in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I see no problem with this letter. I think it\u2019s appropriate and, if anything, it could have gone further in terms of expectations around the environment and climate change, but I am still hopeful that Air New Zealand will be thinking about those issues for other reasons. To the right side of the House, I say wake up. It\u2019s not 1988 anymore. We have decades of evidence about what is actually going to be better for our people and our planet, and it is not the maximising of private profit at the expense of everyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb0fa93b5e6a4a14b195e28c0b622d34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb0fa93b5e6a4a14b195e28c0b622d34\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak into this debate, and the point that I do want to make at the outset is that Minister Robertson has set out a very clear letter with very clear expectations to Air New Zealand, and the point that he made in his contribution, which I would underline, is that those expectations have been discussed with the airline for at least a year. What Mr Robertson has done, in putting these down in writing, is make sure that they are crystal clear for everyone. If anybody here believes in markets and the value of markets and the value of information to markets, they will be celebrating\u2014they will be celebrating\u2014the value of having these things laid out clearly for all other shareholders and all other stakeholders to understand. It seems very unfortunate that that is not the view that came across with the person who called for this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to say a few things in relation to Mr Bayly\u2019s comments reported in the media and engaged with in this House. But before I do that, I do want to reiterate the fact that it\u2019s a 52 percent shareholding that Mr Robertson holds on behalf of the people of New Zealand. As the Minister of the Crown responsible for the interests of the people of New Zealand, it is incumbent upon him to make sure that our national carrier is doing well through a very difficult time\u2014a COVID time. The Government stepped in with that $900 million loan facility to make sure the airline could continue to operate, to support our economy, to support New Zealand\u2019s interests. We are all proud of Air New Zealand for the way it continues to operate, and I think New Zealanders would expect that the Minister responsible for the majority of the airline would be clear with them what his expectations on them were on behalf of all New Zealanders and their interests in that airline. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got that clear ideological opposition opposite. We heard the challenge from Minister Robertson to the Opposition to outline which airports they would see cut in a situation where they weren\u2019t having an eye to the wider economic benefits in New Zealand, and there was no response. There was no engagement on that question. They simply ducked and dived and had no response on that issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe other thing I really want to dig into early on in my contribution is Mr Bayly\u2019s comments, reported in the media, that there may be occasions where the board has to operate in an absolutely commercial focus, and that might differ from the Minister\u2019s letter of expectations, he says. However, he lays out no compelling case for that, and I think if we go through the letter, it\u2019s very difficult to imagine how that might be the case. It simply is not something he\u2019s addressed. It\u2019s not something he\u2019s chosen to address in his comments here. I think he is wanting to outline an ideological view for which he can find no practical outlet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe expectations outlined by Minister Robertson include that which has always been traditionally outlined for every State-owned enterprise (SOE): it must be a \u201Ccommercially sustainable and capital efficient business\u201D. I think everyone in this House will support that. It is what SOEs are required to do. It has \u201CTo be a \u2018national airline\u2019 continuing in operation to support economic development, including access to international markets for our exporters and international tourism linkages, once international borders re-open\u201D. Who in this House wants to call that into question, and how would they think that that stood against the objectives that we would want to have for Air New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThe expectations include that they \u201Cmaintain a comprehensive domestic route network that allows people and goods to move across New Zealand in a timely fashion at a reasonable cost\u201D\u2014and again, Mr Robertson has there outlined the expectation at a level; it is up to Air New Zealand to operationalise that. So there is the classic division between the directorship and the operation, and that is preserved. Now, Mr Bayly may wish for that not to be true. Certainly the ACT Party have been champions of letting things fall over. If Hokitika loses their airport, well, boo hoo\u2014that\u2019s the ACT Party view of the world. Kerikeri, Gisborne\u2014whoever loses their airport, that\u2019s the end of it, and it should be a commercial decision, pure and simple. Well, I think the population of New Zealand would beg to differ, and the exporters in those regions, the people engaged in tourism, the international economy, would beg to differ as to whether that was really in the interests either of Air New Zealand or of our international situation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThey include committing to environmental sustainability\u2014\u201Cdemonstrate its commitment to environmental sustainability, including engaging with the development of new aviation fuels for New Zealand\u201D. Now, I think that that, as Mr Robertson outlined\u2014and I won\u2019t go into this too much because I think he did a pretty clear explanation of why that is so important in the current world. Any airline that wishes to sustain itself into the future is engaged in making sure it lowers its carbon footprint. That is a fundamental point for airlines in terms of their future sustainability, their financial viability. Good on Air New Zealand for being involved with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThey include having the best workplace relations, given it\u2019s one of New Zealand\u2019s largest employers\u2014again, that has stood Air New Zealand in good stead over the years. It has meant that they have retained high-quality employees. It has meant that they have attracted talent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EExpectations also include, \u201CTo continue acting as a responsible corporate citizen\u201D\u2014for goodness\u2019 sake, none of these things are going to likely bring commercial sustainability and capital-efficient business matters into any type of difficulty. That is where Mr Bayly fails to make his point, because he has simply not outlined any case for those things coming into conflict. So even the premise of his criticism does not stack up. It is simple ideological claptrap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ee8f7aeda014112803902b7eb2f1dc3\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Bunkum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022897d3957d7fe4112aa6dd1b81c3d8594\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK\u003C/span\u003E: Bunkum, as my colleague says. Air New Zealand, of course, knows these expectations were coming. They have been the matter of conversation, as we have heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ENow, their share price has been up. I think that is reflective of the fact that Air New Zealand are doing very well in these trying times\u2014of the fact that the Government has stepped in, on behalf of the interests of the majority shareholder and of all New Zealanders, to ensure that it is supported with that $900 million loan facility. The share price is up 74 percent. I think that in itself is something that gives us pause for thought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo they have been talking about it for a long time. It makes crystal clear what the expectations are. That is good information for other stakeholders. It is good information for management. The divide between management and directorship is preserved. I think Mr Robertson\u2019s letter is an exemplar of what a good letter should look like to an SOE, and as the Minister of SOEs I have studied this letter previously, because, of course, I am in the process of sending out similar ones to SOEs, as has been done for decades. The SOEs have been required to have letters of expectation. That has been done by Ministers of all stripes. There is nothing new here, other than laying out a slightly clearer agenda, as Minister Robertson has done, to make sure that the majority shareholders\u2019 interests are clearly presented and represented on behalf of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003ESo I want to challenge the Opposition, once again, to try and come up with any kind of practical conflict, to really come up with any kind of justification for the ideological view that they have laid out, because it simply doesn\u2019t stand scrutiny. Minister Robertson is right to lay those things out, and the Opposition needs to put up or be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00226227f326d3134846a1f2f2cb2b75f871\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226227f326d3134846a1f2f2cb2b75f871\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I pick up that gauntlet laid down by Dr Clark, and I don\u2019t think 10 minutes is enough, but I\u2019ll do my best in the time I have. I probably was the first person to raise the Muldoon-esque nature of this Government by describing the Prime Minister as Muldoon with slogans and kindness, and that got quite a bit of pushback. But now we\u2019re seeing that from somebody who actually looks a lot more like Rob Muldoon than the Prime Minister does, and that is Grant Robertson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, here is the number one point, Dr Clark, and it may well be that the Ministers have not read their own briefings, because the briefings to the incoming Ministers from Treasury around Crown entities and State-owned enterprises is very clear. Page 10 of Treasury\u2019s briefing dated December 2020\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c37db9431ad544339ba89d0ad8c44f19\u0022\u003EHon Dr David Clark\u003C/span\u003E: Chapter and verse number? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea248cf3871a4e788a3bd5ecd5ca5030\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Page 10, last line, and listen up, Dr Clark, says, \u201CShareholding Ministers have no powers to direct the listed companies.\u201D Shareholding Ministers have no powers to direct the listed companies, and Rob Muldoon wouldn\u2019t have cared. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd4e142d68f4f8188e530ef9ac5f6ed\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Read the letter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205f355dc06b74ab98c7e0c7e4956add2\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Grant Robertson doesn\u2019t, either. Oh, \u201CRead the letter.\u201D\u2014certainly, Mr Parker. \u201CI am writing \u2026 to convey the Government\u2019s expectations\u201D. The Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4c6c8be83cf4c64aa50c4a5292c51cf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it\u2019s not a direction, is it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca93978d46344c19434cc866f1090c9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so now we\u2019re dancing on the head of a definitional pin. These aren\u2019t expectations, these aren\u2019t directions; they\u2019re guidelines. They\u2019re ideas. \u201CWe\u2019re just riffing. We don\u2019t really mean it.\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s their excuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not a form of direction; it\u2019s just a think piece. It\u2019s a thought piece. I doubt it, and guess what? The institutional shareholders of Air New Zealand will certainly doubt it, and I don\u2019t know how many times Mr Robertson used\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217384df372fe4f3b850812cd5f830e2a\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re all buying the shares, though\u2014look at the share price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6e732c2c6e4ab288fbe4224a229444\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, thank you, Dr Webb. I will, because I have, and I\u2019m thinking about Mark Twain\u2019s \u201Clies, damned lies and statistics\u201D when both Dr Clark and the Minister of Finance talk about how great the share price is\u2014how it\u2019s gone up. Ha! Actually, in COVID, it dropped 78 percent, and, yes, it did recover, a bit. From $3.10, it went down to 89c, and now it\u2019s up to something like $1.80. But guess what\u2019s happened since this letter was written\u2014did it go up or down? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c83901deeeb4751acb1a729864097d3\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e69f7c5bba4ed798347a27bd66f497\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: It went down\u2014exactly. It\u2019s gone down. So any suggestion that share price is somehow an endorsement of this approach is the worst kind of straw man argument. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut I want to come back to the comment that Mr Robertson kept making about majority shareholders, because they\u2019re in the majority, as if this was an all or nothing\u2014\u201CWe have 52 percent, so we can do what we like.\u201D\u2014and the binary response to Mr Seymour\u2019s intervention, that, somehow, because he made a reference to new aviation fuels, now he\u2019s a climate change denier because he thinks that\u2019s a bad thing. Well, firstly, he didn\u2019t say that, and, secondly, he said that there shouldn\u2019t be that level of direction. I agree with him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand is subject to the emissions trading scheme (ETS). If the Government isn\u2019t happy with the manner in which Air New Zealand or any other company that relies on stationary fuels like aviation fuel to carry out its business, change the ETS. Don\u2019t inflict on the minority shareholders the will of the majority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI thought the Labour Party stood up for the little guy, stood up for the minorities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d104c5efaa94143ad99c78b19fb3054\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Not any more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc02bea5a88e454897388dca523a712a\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Not in this case\u2014not in the case of the minority interests not only of institutional investors but of mum and dad investors, of ACC, of KiwiSaver funds. Yes, there are overseas investors, and I can tell the House that when the mixed-ownership model was being followed and Air New Zealand was looking for purchasers of the proportion of the company that went from\u2014what was that, Mr O\u2019Connor? Is there a problem with your nose? That looked like a very interesting action, and it\u2019s a pity we can\u2019t put it on the Hansard. That went down from 75 percent to 51 percent, and the effort that needed to go in to get institutional investors over the fact that the company would still be majority-owned was a considerable mountain to climb. They were nervous. They were nervous because of the very kind of intervention that is articulated in this so-called thought piece. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThis is nothing but a direction letter, in my view, in very direct breach of the advice that was given by Treasury to the Ministers in December last year. I\u2019ve also got no doubt that those nervous investors will take flight, and that won\u2019t be bad\u2014[Interruption] they scoff\u2014just for those shareholders; it will be bad for New Zealanders, who are the shareholders, and the value of this company will go back down, again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt is true that a majority shareholder will have a significant degree of influence over the appointment of directors, but there is a process. In a publicly listed company, there is usually a nomination process and a selection process that is actually at something of arm\u2019s length from the shareholders, majority or otherwise, that is then voted on at an annual general meeting. What the Minister of Finance has said is \u201CForget about\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b13e363d39d8451ea1bca7f0395f0f9a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: By whom? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022061b6488c7fd4de88de3da1c43e911e9\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: By the shareholders. That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying\u2014that there is a degree of influence. That was my prefacing comment, Mr Parker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut there is no doubt that what is inferred in here\u2014if it\u2019s so obvious, why put it in the letter? The reason is the Minister of Finance wants to do something different from other listed companies. Otherwise, he\u2019d just sit back and say, \u201COK, bring me your nominations and I\u2019ll vote at the AGM in the way that I can.\u201D, but no. He will influence who goes on this board, and I have to say, without naming names, he may well have influenced who has been on this board in the past and who is no longer on the board, because I can think of a very highly qualified, competent director that is no longer a member of the Air New Zealand board, and I can only speculate on the degree to which there was some political interference in that process. My question is: will it get better or will it get worse? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister talks about the loan facility, and both Mr Mitchell and I are still completely flummoxed. I don\u2019t want to steal Mr Mitchell\u2019s thunder, because he may well introduce this in his speech, but I have no idea why Air New Zealand had to take a loan facility from the Government of up to $900 million at rates of interest that by comparisons with the aviation lending market at the moment are completely eye-watering. It begs the question of whether or not Air New Zealand is being milked for interest, for Crown revenue, and that this was an opportunistic action by Air New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EWhen we compare Air New Zealand\u2019s loan facilities with that of our trans-Tasman neighbours in Qantas, I think, from memory, Qantas were paying something like 2.75 percent. We\u2019re paying about three times that in a market with a strong balance sheet. Yes, there was a significant hit last year and a trading hole, but I can\u2019t understand\u2014in fact, frankly, the chairperson of Air New Zealand could not answer the question in the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2014why that loan facility was required and not one on the open market. Well, I think this is a stalking horse for nationalising it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc10430607de4871ad3c37c8894706f0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54a6fda2be24e5a9791cf69efa39d55\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: \u201COh,\u201D he says, \u201Ccouldn\u2019t possibly do that.\u201D, because they\u2019ve only done it several times before, and if the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s speech is anything to go by, they will have them cheering in the Green Party benches for that action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not only that. Why, if every organisation, and including this one, that holds itself up as a very, very high-quality employer with no labour disputes, is it necessary to ask Air New Zealand to enhance its role as a best-practice workplace relations company? Or if it was practising sustainability\u2014as I know it is\u2014to then further \u201Cenhance\u201D? But, of course, it\u2019s only a thought piece\u2014it\u2019s only suggestions. They\u2019re not being directed, according to members on the other side, and the comprehensive domestic route network is the ultimate level of operational interference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EYes, we get grumpy when routes, because they are not sustainable, because they are not supported by those communities, are actually having to be ceased. But I actually sense that we\u2019ll see some of these loss-making routes come back, and if Julie Anne Genter compares Air New Zealand to KiwiRail, goodness knows what it\u2019s going to look like in a few years\u2019 time, because KiwiRail is a money pit. Three-quarters of a billion to a billion dollars is poured into that organisation every year, and under this Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223e2bfad1e94646aea637e6cfa5e690ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e2bfad1e94646aea637e6cfa5e690ac\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022762a84e6a22047f6a331a9de06cb6916\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022762a84e6a22047f6a331a9de06cb6916\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve been here about 20 years. I\u2019ve spoken in a lot of these urgent debates. I\u2019ve got to say it\u2019s not often that I get up to respond to such a lot of old cobblers compared with the last speaker, Michael Woodhouse. What a load of twaddle! He is completely wrong. It is nonsense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been a director of many companies. I\u2019ve been a chief executive of many companies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb7a317665442cd9284c80196cc098e\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, not very successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e552303ce0b42cda40b04e41d6d2765\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he says, \u201CNot very successful.\u201D That\u2019s actually not true. Some of the companies I helped found include A2 milk, which has done not too bad. But in my experience as either a chief executive or a director, it\u2019s nonsense to think that a 52 percent shareholder wouldn\u2019t make their expectations of the company known. They own 52 percent; they expect to be able to tell the directors as to what their priorities are as a shareholder. That\u2019s what a letter of expectations does. That\u2019s what any shareholder does, really, in the private sector, even at a shareholding substantially lower than 52 percent. There is nothing wrong with it. It\u2019s a pity the last Government didn\u2019t pay a bit more attention to their letter of expectations for Solid Energy before they ground that into the ground and caused a billion-dollar loss to taxpayers. What a load of twaddle that a responsible Government wouldn\u2019t set out their expectations to a company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I want to go through some of these. I\u2019ve been involved as Associate Minister of Finance helping the Minister of Finance with these very issues, so I\u2019m happy to disabuse some of the members opposite in respect of their ignorant assertions in the House so far today. Air New Zealand hasn\u2019t been required to take one cent of the loan facility that has been provided by the Crown. If they can get cheaper money anywhere else, they\u2019re welcome to it. We made that point in those very negotiations. How was the rate struck? I was intimately involved in that. It was struck by Treasury on advice from Goldman Sachs, who were the investment bankers who were advising the Government, and it was struck on the basis of average rates that were market rates out of the United States and elsewhere in the world at the very point at which that rate was struck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a market rate, and if Air New Zealand could have got money cheaper from anywhere else, they could have taken it and they still can. That rate has been restruck more recently\u2014and it\u2019s true that it\u2019s dropped because the market rate has dropped since the parlous times when it was struck first at the time when COVID struck, when, I can tell you what, lending rates for airlines that didn\u2019t have passengers were pretty expensive because lenders thought there was a lot of risk attached to the loan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f5f1ff801b4a6884f0bc0a629a1010\u0022\u003EDr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: And there was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bacf5e5ca8804f26926063f0591e2a01\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: And there was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe next point is about maintaining a domestic network. Now, New Zealand is more reliant on having a national carrier than most countries because of our isolation. In truth, when Air New Zealand gets into trouble it\u2019s because their international routes close down or become unprofitable. They lost money in Ansett. When they lose big sums of money, it\u2019s on their international route, not their domestic route. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhen we interrogated this issue, we found that the capital expenditure and operating costs of the marginal routes on the regional network are a mere bagatelle to the performance of Air New Zealand. We\u2019re not expecting them to run unprofitable routes, but where a route is close to their return on capital, we think that they should be running those routes and we told them that. And so other investors in the company now know that and when they recapitalise, other investors will be aware that the Government wants them to maintain not unprofitable routes but not just routes that are the most highly profitable routes. We want them to maintain a regional network and as a shareholder of the country, we should tell them that and Air New Zealand will do that willingly and other shareholders will know that also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the biofuels issue, that arose because Greg Foran came to us and said, \u201CLook, we recognise that we need to do our bit by reducing our climate-changing emissions.\u201D They want to be one of the first airlines in the world that are using electric planes. That will happen on domestic routes. It will happen on domestic routes; internationally, they\u2019re reliant on fuel substitution. They want to make progress in that regard. They want our support to do so. We express our support to do so and, you know, we\u2019re willing to talk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe other thing is having responsible workplace relations. The National Party wouldn\u2019t object to us saying, \u201CWe want you to get a good return on capital.\u201D, but they object to us saying, \u201CWe want you to have decent labour relations.\u201D What a load of old twaddle! This is an absolutely proper letter of expectation put out there transparently. In terms of directorships, of course, the shareholder will show an interest, and the idea that the company should feed directors to us that we then appoint so that they\u2019re in control of themselves, without regard to shareholder wishes, is another example of rubbish theory from Mr Woodhouse, who spoke just previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022e535b0a99fb440a880a4490c36f06ca9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e535b0a99fb440a880a4490c36f06ca9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to start by saying that in his speech to the House the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson, said that he was very kindly going to keep the Air New Zealand route to Kerikeri open for me. But I don\u2019t think he realises that Kerikeri is three hours away from my house, so I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s really going to be that useful for me. Maybe a service out of Dairy Flat would be better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhen I first read this letter, I thought it was an April Fool\u2019s letter, and I started to go through it. It opened with a profound statement. It said: \u201CI recognise that the last 12 months has been an incredibly challenging time for Air New Zealand,\u201D. Well, I\u2019m pretty sure they understand that, when their revenue went almost to zero overnight when we were hit as a country with COVID. It then went on to say, \u201CThe Crown has provided significant support to Air New Zealand through this period in a variety of ways, including provision of the Crown Standby Loan Facility.\u201D That is true, and I\u2019m going to come back to that point and to the comment that one of the Cabinet Ministers made to me today around it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut then I go on to more of the bullet points: \u201CTo be a \u2018national airline\u2019 continuing in operation to support economic development, including access to international markets for our exporters and international tourism\u201D. That\u2019s great, coming from a Government that had a Cabinet Minister turn around and say that our tourism sector was cocky. Now, all of a sudden, they want to support them, through the letter to Air New Zealand. \u201CTo maintain a comprehensive domestic \u2026 network that allows people and goods to move across New Zealand in a timely fashion and at a reasonable cost;\u201D. Well, I\u2019ll tell you what. If the Minister of Finance wants to send a letter to the board and the chair of Air New Zealand, then maybe they should start delivering some of their projects in a timely fashion and at a reasonable cost. \u201CTo demonstrate [its] \u2026 commitment to environmental sustainability, including engaging with the development of new aviation fuels for New Zealand;\u201D This is from a Government that\u2019s delivered five electric cars and is returning us to coal, telling Air New Zealand to make that investment. Then we go to \u201CTo enhance its role as a leader for best practice workplace relations, given that it\u2019s one of New Zealand\u2019s largest employers.\u201D This, again, from a Government that just had a union come out and talk about taking a vote of no confidence in a senior Cabinet Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ETo me, sending a letter like this to Air New Zealand\u2014not only, as it\u2019s been laid out very seriously by my colleagues Michael Woodhouse and Andrew Bayly, they want to have a look at themselves and, first of all, be able to deliver this for the country themselves before they start sending letters laid out like this to our national carrier. I want to come back to the provision of the Crown standby loan facility, because one of their Cabinet Ministers today told me, \u201CYou know what? There\u2019s no better time for us as the Government to be borrowing money because capital is so cheap\u2014it\u2019s so cheap.\u201D That\u2019s true. Capital is very cheap. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut I want to come now to a very serious point, and that was the fact that Air New Zealand appeared in front of the select committee this year, in February, and we had the new chief executive officer, Greg Foran and Dame Therese Walsh. I wanted to acknowledge them and thank them for the front-line services that Air New Zealand do provide us as a country, and I asked them this question: \u201CThere\u2019s a couple of things I want to explore around the loan facility that\u2019s been set up by the Government between \u2026 [them] and the Government, understanding that they are \u2026 [a] major shareholder. \u2026 I just wanted to seek some clarity around the fact that, at the onset of COVID-19, you secured a $900 million loan facility from the Government at 7 percent to 9 percent interest rate. That was in two tranches, the first being 600k at 7 percent, and the second 300k at 8 \u2026 [and] with both rates increasing to 1 percent, or a 1 percent increase if the facility remained after 12 months. Around the same time, Qantas secured financing in Australia of a bit over a billion dollars [that\u2019s] in Australian dollars, at [a rate of] 2.75 percent for up to 10 years.\u201D And when you convert that into salaries and wages, that\u2019s $50 million that we could have saved if we had entered into an agreement like that with the New Zealand Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EDame Therese Walsh was very interesting. She said this: \u201CSo, look, I think the context needs to be put around this, and that is that we were in a trading halt, [they were in a full trading halt] in an extreme situation where our revenue was going from 100 percent to close to zero \u2026. So I think that context is important. We\u2019d made a decision that we needed to approach the Government for a lifeline \u2026 There was a discussion and negotiation around the interest rates that you\u2019ve referred to. And, obviously, as a company, we wish to pay the lowest cost of lending and funding that we can, but the Government also had to take its position and view on that matter. As I\u2019ve said before, it wasn\u2019t the most significant item at that moment. And I agree with you that it\u2019s certainly money \u2026 we would prefer to keep; however, it was part of the negotiation at \u2026 [that] time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EWhy has the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223deacfac1d8b4af8be642808f802090b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223deacfac1d8b4af8be642808f802090b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022b78009b62f244a02906ba6711a08f128\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b78009b62f244a02906ba6711a08f128\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Mr Mitchell probably isn\u2019t used to doing an urgent debate that his party hasn\u2019t called, because he really was struggling for material there, reading from a transcript of the Air New Zealand examination. But look, you know what?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda514fff7864930abacf9bf08909e8c\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Written by Chris Luxon!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a88b54a982240a182c0a92ee3c657ce\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I want to hit the very foundation of this. You\u2019re right, Mr Henare! I want to hit the absolute foundation of this question, because, for some bizarre reason, on that side of the House they don\u2019t seem to know any company law. So the question is: what is in the interests of a company? And you know what? It appears, bizarrely, that that side of the House thinks that it\u2019s not in the best interests of a company to take notice of climate change. They think it\u2019s in the best interests of a company to burn aviation fuel till the cows come home, and not take any notice of the fact that the world is changing. Julie Anne Genter touched on that at length, and she\u2019s right. But, you know, she\u2019s not alone. Chapman Tripp, that very well-respected law firm, had a sustainable finance forum in 2019. Do you know what they said? They said it would be a breach of the duties of a director not to take climate change into account. So when we think about it, companies need to be prepared for the future. It is absolutely responsible for them to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202beac044a2246a3b82197eb36923aec\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: So how can they do that with a 9 percent interest rate on a facility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248646f6c7834b30b358178678d599ba\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: This is found in section 131 of the Companies Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c84788a6706469ca518519b5f98235a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t draw down on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c242431fef3247f991833636701dae70\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the law. You have to read it, Mr Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc848b43c94c4b1f8618f7d66678b4a2\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: They won\u2019t draw down on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248b143821534ba3a1c542f1018bb667\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: So why don\u2019t you go and open a book? You must be reading now: your lips are moving! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, look, we need to go back and look at the Companies Act. What the Act says is that a director must act in the best interests of a company. What does that mean? Does it mean they\u2019ve got to improve profits at all costs or does it mean that they can be a responsible citizen, look after their communities, look after their environment, look after their people, and at the same time run a profitable business? Well, it\u2019s not hard, is it? The days of the neo-liberal \u201Cmoney at all costs\u201D are gone. The sun has set, thank goodness for that. We now expect all of our corporate citizens to act responsibly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course it\u2019s appropriate for the Minister to set out to Air New Zealand those things that he sees as responsible corporate citizenship. So to be a national airline\u2014to the people of New Zealand, you and I are the key shareholders, and it is entirely appropriate for it to be a proper airline that offers full services that don\u2019t just serve me in Christchurch, Helen White in Auckland, but even people in Kerikeri, in Gore, in Invercargill, Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014the list goes on and on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, as Grant Robertson said\u2014fantastic Minister of Finance, with great stewardship of this company and the nation\u2019s assets\u2014this is a critical part of our infrastructure. New Zealand needs a national airline to connect each other and to connect us to the world. It is absolutely critical that the shareholders in that company, through Grant Robertson, let the company know that. To simply ask that it has comprehensive domestic routes so that people can be connected, so that people who want to can come to this place and make their views be known, because everyone\u2019s views are important\u2014that is entirely appropriate and makes that company a good corporate citizen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo we do need to look at the Companies Act and recognise that when it says \u201Cthe interests of the company\u201D, it doesn\u2019t just mean maximising the profits of the company. It\u2019s really important to note that in that Act and elsewhere, it is very clear that that is an open definition. When we ask what\u2019s in the interest of you or I, it\u2019s not making more money or having more money in the bank. It\u2019s no good having money in the bank if we\u2019re depressed and sick. We want a company that is healthy in every respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo the letter from the Minister is absolutely on all fours with this. And section 131 of the Companies Act itself sets out situations when the company can properly act in the interests of other parties. Here\u2019s an interesting fact: if the company is a subsidiary owned 51 percent or more by another party, it can act in the interests of its holding company. Now, that\u2019s not a million miles from a situation where the holding company is the people of New Zealand. Entirely appropriate to say, \u201CLook, you\u2019re not simply a widely held company. You\u2019ve got a majority shareholding and, of course, the majority shareholder wants to have a say.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m quite flummoxed by the floundering around of the Opposition. They don\u2019t seem to understand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8828cc3c8324d1cbc49042e5ef8c77f\u0022\u003EKieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t know what \u201Cflummoxed\u201D means!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccddc72b20dc4ba4bb10ecc9873b337d\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t know what \u201Cflummoxed\u201D means, Mr McAnulty! They don\u2019t know what company law means. They don\u2019t know what best interests means. They don\u2019t even know what leadership means. So here we are, asking them to be a leader in good workplace relations. We know that a workplace with happy employees, employees that are well looked after and well paid, is a good company, a strong company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, the fact of the matter is that all this can be done whilst maintaining a good bottom-line, as indeed the Minister makes very clear in the letter, which Mr Mitchell basically read out. So we know that to do this is nothing more than what would be expected. So we absolutely, as a country, need to get away from the suggestion that the interests of a company are simply the interests of making more money and maximising the bottom line whilst at the same time the environmental bottom-line is degraded; the human resources, the human capital bottom-line is degraded; the structure of New Zealand, the transport infrastructure of New Zealand, is degraded. That just goes to show the narrow, short-term thinking of the Opposition and of the ACT Party in bringing this urgent debate to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that this letter showed that this Government is committed to long-term thinking. Aviation is a big emitter of climate emissions, and we need to address that, but at the same time we know we need to stay connected with the world. We know that this is an important part of our infrastructure. So we\u2019re saying, as you look forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4c30063f31a408eb368505e48712f34\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: You guys have shut up shop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e84f65cf26e5419d84c33d6adbe7a21f\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not just two years, Mr Bridges, not just to the election, but look forward 10 years and 30 years for the prosperity of New Zealand, it\u2019s appropriate to absolutely look at the climate profile of aviation and the wider transport industry. We want to be leaders. So yes, go ahead and investigate alternate fuels. Can we use biofuel as an aviation fuel? Why don\u2019t you look at that? What other low-emission alternatives are out there? What other kinds of fuel in aviation exist? Can we have electric planes? Let\u2019s explore all of those options. If we lead the world in this, this will be one of the best airlines in the world\u2014even better than it is already, and we all know how good Air New Zealand is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAbsolutely, we want this to be done sustainably\u2014sustainably in an environmental sense and sustainably in a commercial sense\u2014so it\u2019s entirely appropriate that the Government supported Air New Zealand by funding it through one of the most troubling and traumatic periods that could be imagined. And we were right there. At the time, if I remember rightly, so was the other side. There wasn\u2019t a whisper. They did not demur that we should be funding Air New Zealand. They probably weren\u2019t looking\u2014who knows? So there you go. At the time, they were entirely behind us, and now they\u2019re changing their mind\u2014divided, distracted, and not really knowing the right hand from the left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMembers on the other side of the House have repeatedly called for Air New Zealand to fly to their own part of the country. Nathan Guy\u2014now, he was a good guy, wasn\u2019t he? He wanted them to fly to K\u0101piti if I remember rightly. But, you know\u2014so here he was standing up in the House, and now, when we have it here, they\u2019re saying, \u201CNo, no. Don\u2019t advocate for regional New Zealand.\u201D Well, we will advocate for regional New Zealand, because we are the party that cares for all New Zealanders\u2014in cities, in the regions, and across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo what this letter shows, this letter of instruction or of recommendation from Grant Robertson, is that he\u2019s a responsible Minister, a Minister who takes a long-term view and has the interests of all New Zealanders at heart and the interests of Air New Zealand as a fantastic company. Well done, Minister Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232b8b64a25024ca99c2e0f50f8722ec0\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fee8a7d79113406b9a06b9607cee7525\u0022\u003EDebate on Budget Policy Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6df9be20a21441d962b2ea7753c5563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6df9be20a21441d962b2ea7753c5563\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat a pleasure it is to rise after the last speaker\u2014I must say he was outstanding. I\u2019m not sure I could better him, but I\u2019ll give it a go. I must retract somewhat from my previous pugnacious approach, because my role as chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee is a little less partisan. My role is to perhaps bring to the House the proceedings of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014a great committee, a committee which tries its hardest to work together across the board. I must say, the hearing into the Budget Policy Statement was one where, I think, both Grant Robertson, the Minister of Finance, and the Secretary to the Treasury were fulsome in their replies. I think members from the other side had a pretty good effort at probing and inquiring into the Government\u2019s finances. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, we then took submissions. We had 58 submissions in total and we heard from quite some number of people on the Budget Policy Statement. I must say that they came from across the board. CCS Disability Action, obviously, came with a particular perspective about the need to have a Budget policy that looks after their community. Caritas, the Catholic aid agency, talked about foreign aid. The Child Poverty Action Group, that great friend of the Labour Party\u2014you know, they do a lot of good work, but they absolutely let their views be known that child poverty should be a focus, as it is. And, of course, others from, perhaps, different areas. The rural sector was well represented. Federated Farmers gave a submission, the National Council of Women, the Salvation Army\u2014and that is just a short selection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut I do want to say that they were pretty much all useful submissions. There were some that were perhaps a little challenging, suggesting that we should defund the police or perhaps, you know, do away with military spending. I just want to say that I certainly recognise that those parts of the Public Service are really important, and, across the House, I\u2019m sure we all agree that we need to fund them adequately to do the very important role that they do. Whilst not particularly mentioned in the Budget Policy Statement, that was one theme in the submissions that I wanted to touch on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, importantly, the focus: the fantastic wellbeing approach\u2014the world-leading wellbeing approach\u2014that Grant Robertson launched in New Zealand. Quite rightly, the world is looking to New Zealand to see how we are implementing this and to see the improvements that can be made. Now, I know even the National Party accept that it is a really important question to say that when we invest taxpayer funds, Government funds, into any initiative, we want to make sure we\u2019re getting the best return for them across the board, not just whether we have a particular output, whether we can tick a box, but how do we measure all of those other ripple effects that we might have? All of those things that make lives better\u2014or, perhaps tragically, to make them not as worse as they otherwise would have been, you know? So when we are putting money into childcare or into Oranga Tamariki, things like that, how do we measure not only that we\u2019ve spent some money on supporting a family but also those effects that that child might go to school, that child might in turn have a family which is stronger and more resilient than the one they came from, and have better life prospects? That is what wellness is: not just looking at how we spend our money in a kind of appropriation and audit sense but looking at it in a far more textured and contextual way. That is world-leading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not saying it is without its challenges. Quite rightly, in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, we are having an ongoing conversation across the board with a lot of agencies about how we measure those outcomes. I welcome that, and I know Treasury welcomes that as well. This Budget Policy Statement really reiterates that the wellbeing approach remains the right approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe absolutely want to ensure that the outcomes aimed at are being achieved. One of the really important things in doing that is a collaborative approach, a cross-agency approach, and a collective responsibility\u2014the idea that even though the appropriation might go to justice or to police or to corrections, those agencies need to be cooperating with each other, need to be talking with each other, and need to be connecting with each other to make sure that it is not simply the case that, \u201CWell, this is a question for the courts. This is an issue for sentencing. You deal with it over there. Don\u2019t worry what corrections outcome it has. Don\u2019t worry what housing outcome it has.\u201D We absolutely need to have an approach which isn\u2019t siloed. And that is a challenge, right? Because for anyone in any job, to broaden their horizons outside of their own department, their own immediate circle of influence, is a challenge. That\u2019s the challenge that we\u2019ve got to get out there: that we need to have agencies and agencies are only individuals, so that means people talking with each other, talking not simply to people in their own department but across agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, one of the real questions is measurement. Again, the Minister was very useful, very knowledgeable, and articulate when he talked through the Living Standards Framework, the fact that across all of those domains\u2014whether it be the environment, whether it be human capital, whether it be infrastructure, or whether it simply be the economy\u2014there are multiple measures that we can look at to determine. Again, the joy of being world-leading and the difficulty with being world-leading is that we are developing this as we go. But do you know what that means? It is getting better. It is getting better and better and better. So the Living Standards Framework is something that we are really going to be working on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want to touch, though, on the COVID response. The Minister and the secretary were very clear that wellbeing took a step backwards. I just want to recognise that for a lot of people, COVID hit them hard. People have lost their jobs\u2014not as many as Treasury had predicted. But in terms of maintaining and enhancing wellbeing, our COVID response is really important. Absolutely part of the Budget Policy Statement\u2014its main thrust, really\u2014is saying that we\u2019ve got to maintain our COVID response; first of all, maintaining the protection of the health of our people, because that is part of our wellbeing, right? And a critical part. But the really interesting lesson from the past year or so has been that our health response, having a healthy population, a population that can go about its business, has benefited us economically beyond compare. We are the envy of the world, not only because we can sit close to each other, chat, socialise, and do all the things that we usually do but also because we have an economy which is still thriving. Now, it took a step back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that came out clearly in the Budget Policy Statement, in the debates and so on, in the examinations, was that we have uncertain times ahead, that it is not absolutely clear that we are on a flat, upward trajectory. We\u2019ve had some outrageous growth periods. The September quarter was, I think, 13.9 percent growth\u2014unprecedented. And then the next quarter, we went back 1 percent. That kind of up and down may well last a while, so we need not be alarmed. We do have a predicted steady growth, and we need to be aware of that. But let\u2019s be very clear: just because it appears the worst is over, this Minister of Finance won\u2019t be embarking on any austerity measures. We are not going to start tightening the belt and paying back the loans simply because we look like we are through the worst of the woods. No, there is a clear plan in place. The projections are that we will be back to surplus in 2027. It would be utterly counter-productive and quite harmful not only to the economy but to ordinary people, to mum and dad New Zealanders, if we were to start slashing Government spending now. We didn\u2019t spend all of the COVID response fund; there\u2019s a good amount left. That is not there simply to be spent, but we absolutely need to be prepared for anything that is ahead. So that is sitting there in the kitty for the rainy day. And what that means is that we are in a lot better\u2014wildly better\u2014position than we thought we would have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ea9731e173c4c9a81176b468aad8c6d\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: Wildly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c028f99b2044ed48d3c9e577a3edc19\u0022\u003EDr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Wildly better, Helen, wildly better. And that is a good thing, but let\u2019s not get complacent. We absolutely need to remain vigilant and remain ready to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, as chair of the select committee, it was a great discussion\u2014great submissions\u2014from members from all sides of the House, and I am looking forward to the constructive contribution from the other side. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002279d8a464375f49f5b8b1bd72f9e1959d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279d8a464375f49f5b8b1bd72f9e1959d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaa84d4ff3ba4e1c9db27ad853a7b864\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaa84d4ff3ba4e1c9db27ad853a7b864\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Hey, well, thank you, Mr Speaker, and I do acknowledge the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, Dr Duncan Webb. I just wish I was wildly excited about that speech. Gee, I\u2019ve got to say, you are no Mr Hon Grant Robertson. Oh, speak of\u2014I was going to say the devil, but I can\u2019t say that about Mr Robertson. I\u2019m so glad he\u2019s turned up\u2014the new Mr Muldoon of New Zealand politics, Mr Grant Robertson. As we\u2019ve all been debating just before, that letter to the board of Air New Zealand, Mr Robertson, was a particularly bad piece of judgment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnyway, let\u2019s talk about the Budget. I think it\u2019s worthwhile just reminding ourselves where we sit at the moment. So this year, we\u2019re going to report a budget deficit of $23 billion. Over the next few years to 2027, we\u2019re going to report another budget deficit, continual budget deficit in every year amounting to another $83 billion. Our current debt\u2014we\u2019ve blown $40 billion in the last year. So we\u2019ve gone from $60 billion to $103 billion I think, and we will see it go up to close to $200 billion. And I think what people forget is yesterday we borrowed about $110 million. Today we\u2019re going to borrow $110 million, and tomorrow we\u2019re going to borrow $110 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55fc8044a0346c4b0ebd05759917958\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a lot of Trelise Cooper!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278714300d76a41a499ab2ee135c1d8cf\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, Mr Bridges, but I don\u2019t buy Trelise Cooper\u2014you may have other reasons. But I\u2019ve got to say, this Government and the financial profile of where we sit at the moment\u2014[Interruption] Oh, there\u2019s someone who buys Trelise Cooper on the other side, well done. I\u2019ve got to say, when you look at that financial profile, it\u2019s a pretty ugly case, unfortunately. And I\u2019m not saying we should not have spent that money, and I do acknowledge a lot of the spending has been worthwhile, and I\u2019ll talk more about that shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll tell you what else has happened over the last three years. We\u2019ve seen house prices rise by about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227579f616a62744c8aa1f4d1062dc174b\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u201447 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229551855452c1434498ea2541b0febe8a\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, 47 percent, and house stock is worth just under $1.4 trillion\u2014$1.4 trillion. It has exploded under this Government over the last three years. And you can\u2019t keep saying nine years of neglect when you\u2019ve been in power for nearly four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670367279aed4d7a881dcbc918d82057\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Four years of failure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee056a16a4704e31bd8dd600062e61fc\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Four years of failure, particularly on the housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen the other thing\u2014and this is what\u2019s really going to hurt people soon, and they\u2019re just starting to hear it; they\u2019re just starting to get this\u2014is the cost of living. It\u2019s the issue around the increase in rents. We know rents have gone up $120 a week. And for people who rent, they do not have discretionary income. That is everything that they have to pay, and when it goes up by $120, they can\u2019t just take it from somewhere else. They have to pay it\u2014it comes out of their salaries\u2014they have little alternative. It means that they\u2019re going to not be able to save for the deposit on their house, because they\u2019re paying more money in rent. It\u2019s a vicious circle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019re going to see the increasing avalanche of electricity prices, and it\u2019s only just starting. And we\u2019ve got a Minister of energy who really does not understand the energy market. I can guarantee you, and I\u2019ll say this publicly: prices of electricity and energy in general are going to skyrocket under this Government over the next 2\u00BD years, and we will watch with interest because, unfortunately, the most vulnerable New Zealanders are the ones that are going to be missing out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut what else do you see when you look around? Well, I see growing levels of poverty. And unfortunately, the Government has not been able to match its wonderful words on reducing poverty, and I think that\u2019s incredibly bad. The other thing is huge problems in health, and particularly in mental health. And I\u2019ve got to acknowledge my colleague Matt Doocey, who has been prosecuting the case where they\u2019re grand on announcements and little on delivery and, in fact, even worse than that, haven\u2019t actually put the funding into where they said they would go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EPoor educational outcomes\u2014big issues. When you compare us against the OECD, we are going backwards at a rate of knots that is most worrying. And the worst thing is the Ministry of Education claim that we\u2019re going the other way, but the Programme for International Student Assessment scores show a different result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ve got the issue around immigration and the broken families\u2014the people that are living in New Zealand, hard-working people who\u2019ve immigrated to New Zealand who haven\u2019t seen their families for over 400 days, who are locked in New Zealand, just waiting for the Government to fix up the managed isolation and quarantine facilities and show a little bit of compassion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo what are we seeing from the Government? What\u2019s been the response? Well, the first thing Mr Robertson\u2019s done is he\u2019s shoved up the tax rate\u201439 percent. And even according to the Treasury expectations\u2014which I think are overstated\u2014the first year they\u2019re going to raise $80 million. Well, in the day that it took us to debate that in urgency under the watch of Mr Robertson, we borrowed another $110 million. We went backwards that day\u2014we went backwards that day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen we have the issue around tax deductibility of interest. Well, gee\u2014well, gee, how that\u2019s going to impact on future developments. I was just talking to an ex-partner of PricewaterhouseCoopers who was telling me how it was having a chilling effect even on new developments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got to say, the issue around where we are as an economy\u2014we\u2019ve gone backwards last year. I note that the chair of the select committee only mentioned the last sort of couple of quarters. Well, actually, last year we went backwards by nearly 3 percent in terms of GDP growth, which actually put us behind Australia, which was about minus 2.5. We\u2019re nearly 3 percent, and Ireland, who is another island nation who can control its borders well, had positive 2.5 percent. We\u2019re 13th in the OECD list in terms of growth rates. And I know we hear those wonderful soothing words from the Minister of Finance, but the reality speaks a different thing. We\u2019re middling in the order of growth rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnd then when you talk about\u2014well, I\u2019ve got to acknowledge that Mr Robertson did a lot of good stuff through COVID to support New Zealand businesses and people. But I\u2019ve got to say this to you, Mr Robertson: what you did was really not much different from every other developed country in the world. And I\u2019ll give you the stats\u2014I know you like numbers, Mr Robertson\u201493 percent of all OECD countries implemented a wage subsidy. Big tick, we did that too. Eighty-seven percent directly lent to small to medium sized enterprises. You did that. Good one. Sixty-two percent implemented some sort of debt moratorium. Good one. Forty-nine percent did training. You did that. Actually, what this is just showing, Mr Robertson, is you did everything that everyone else did. But the one thing you didn\u2019t do that two-thirds of countries in the OECD did was they dealt with the issue of rents, and you should have dealt with the issue of rents, particularly for small and medium enterprises, because they put in rent aid, and you should have done it. It would have cost you $300 million a month\u2014I did the numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo I hope this forthcoming Budget is how we reset the economy, and I\u2019m just hoping that in the forthcoming, we see some issues and some initiatives that encourage businesses to actually go out and employ people and do the stuff. But, unfortunately, your record talks differently. What have you done? You banned oil and gas. That\u2019s not a big industry; it\u2019s a little industry. Don\u2019t worry about that; it\u2019s a minor one! We\u2019ve increased sick pay, we\u2019ve reduced labour flexibility, we introduced a new extra public holiday\u2014we don\u2019t even know what the dates are because we\u2019ve got to be able to work it out\u2014we\u2019ve made some changes to the Overseas Investment Office, but the reality is we\u2019re still having trouble getting investors to come to New Zealand. We made minimum wage increases at a time that most companies are struggling for cash. What a beautiful sense of timing! We don\u2019t disagree with the principle of increasing the minimum wage, but how rapidly you did it and what it means to the many hundreds of thousands of businesses who are already short on cash because you didn\u2019t do the rent subsidy\u2014they\u2019re already struggling, and you just came and gave them a double whammy. And then we\u2019ve got the issue of fair pay agreements coming up\u2014wow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAll these things, we reckon it\u2019s going to cost nearly $3 billion that you have taken and imposed on New Zealand businesses. And I love how you want to do these programmes of increasing minimum wage but, of course, who pays for it? Not you, Mr Robertson, not out of your Budget but out of the budgets of mums and dads who own businesses all around the country, working hard every day, and you\u2019re just socking it to them, and, unfortunately, that\u2019s a bad thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022571fbcfc51c841f2a9a4555ffb656c74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022571fbcfc51c841f2a9a4555ffb656c74\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. The only person who enjoyed that speech more than me was Christopher Luxon, to be honest, because he was looking and thinking, \u201COK, as I\u2019m putting the ticket together\u2014me and Simon Bridges, my finance spokesperson and deputy\u2014I can now do it without any concern or care in the world.\u201D That speech was a little bit like those fridge magnets you get with a whole lot of different words and you just reorder them and then just read them out in any random order whatsoever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t here for all of the debate on Air New Zealand, but I would have enjoyed Mr Luxon\u2019s contribution. He was crying out for the kind of letter that I wrote to Air New Zealand when he was chief executive so he would know for certain that he shouldn\u2019t be shutting down all of those regional routes that he shut down when he was chief executive. He would have known for sure he shouldn\u2019t shut down those regional routes. I look forward to hearing from Mr Luxon later in the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement this year was a unique document, not just because of its most excellent photography on the front cover, which cost the taxpayer zero dollars and was, I believe, an excellent way for the document to be put to the public, but it was also unique because this is the first time that the clause in the Public Finance Act was exercised that allowed the Government to de-link the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update from the Budget Policy Statement. The reason that we did that was because we are going through one of the most uncertain and volatile times that the New Zealand economy has ever\u2014or has certainly seen in my lifetime, and has hardly ever seen before. We wanted to give ourselves the maximum amount of time to be able to put a Budget Policy Statement together that recognised the volatility that is in the global economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs we stand here today, it does bear pausing for a moment when we think about this Budget Policy Statement and the Budget that will come and flow from it\u2014the position, the fortunate position, New Zealand finds itself in through the hard work of the team of 5 million. Just this morning, if you wanted to read the daily update of what\u2019s happening with COVID around the world, you would see that in the Netherlands they\u2019ve just reintroduced a night-time curfew, France has gone into another form of lockdown, Thailand\u2019s increasing the restrictions that it has\u2014all of these countries around the world who are struggling to get towards the form of normality that New Zealand has actually had for the vast bulk of the last year. So as we look at the world that we\u2019re living in, the level of uncertainty and volatility that we have to put a Budget together in has never been higher. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo when I look at Budget 2021 and this Budget Policy Statement that leads into it, there are, essentially, three core elements to it, and they are the three themes that were given in the Speech from the Throne: to keep New Zealanders and continue to keep New Zealanders safe from COVID-19; to accelerate our economic recovery and rebuild; and to get on with addressing the major issues around child wellbeing, around housing, and around climate change. When we think about that issue of keeping New Zealanders safe from COVID-19, I was interested in Mr Bayly\u2019s remark about how he compares where New Zealand is at in that regard. The IMF, Bloomberg, and the Lowy Institute have all ranked New Zealand\u2019s response to COVID-19 among the best in the world, and that is because from day one, we took the approach that the best approach for the economy was also a strong public health approach. The two can\u2019t be de-linked. Mr Bayly can talk about Ireland, but we know that Ireland has had deaths in huge amounts greater than New Zealand, and an economy that\u2019s stopped and started and has locked itself down over time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have been able to have a consistent approach here in New Zealand, built on that strong public health approach, but also built on two core principles for business: that of cash flow and of confidence. Everything we have done in terms of the supports we have provided have been built around the idea of cash flow and confidence, and that will continue to be the way we approach achieving that theme of keeping New Zealanders safe from COVID-19. We did it when we saw the resurgence in Auckland, and we were able to deploy the new resurgence support payment that we had there, as well as the wage subsidy scheme. We did that because we had been careful with our COVID response and recovery fund. We hadn\u2019t done as we had been urged by those on the opposite side of the House, to just spend it all, just spend it all right now, not worry about that, not have money in the kitty. So we were able to do that and we will continue to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fceb6f9973d4edea12bcf6a4df55595\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: What?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c72d82357bb45beb663d761b2b05ef4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Woodhouse, I debated your former finance spokesperson. I was the person who looked through the numbers in the alternative budget from the National Party to see that that money was being spent on other matters. This Government has taken the responsible approach of having money held back for COVID and for resurgences, and that has stood us in great stead and allows us to continue to keep New Zealanders safe from COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut what the Budget also does\u2014the Budget Policy Statement and the Budget that flows from it will do\u2014is accelerate our economic recovery and rebuild. We\u2019ve done that by our massive investment in infrastructure\u2014over $40 billion over five years going into making sure that we have the infrastructure that we need for a modern New Zealand. That does not only do the job we want it to do to reduce congestion, to be able to build more houses, but it keeps people in work. One of the main goals of this Government has been to keep unemployment down during this COVID period, and we have succeeded. We now see unemployment under 5 percent, compared to the rest of the world\u2014the OECD average of around 6.4 percent, even 6.9 percent, I believe, over in Australia. So we have here in New Zealand a record of making sure that our recovery actually builds jobs and takes people with us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut now we begin the process of reconnecting with the world. The trans-Tasman bubble gives us that opportunity to see tourists come in, to make sure they\u2019re there. All the while, we\u2019ve connected with the world through our exports, which have continued to go out, supported by the Government\u2019s support scheme for aviation services. But now we have that process building up of making sure that we will see our tourism sector start to move forward. Minister Stuart Nash\u2014as indicated in the Budget Policy Statement, we know that there are sectors that will continue to need support, and that includes the tourism sector, and Minister Nash has already given an outline of where that will go. We\u2019ve also had the housing package announced, which is a critical part of making sure we build that stock of housing that contributes so much to our wellbeing but also to our infrastructure and to job creation. So accelerating the recovery and rebuild is critical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen thirdly are the big issues of our time: how we make sure that we improve child wellbeing, how we make sure that we get on top of the housing crisis, and how we make sure that we have a response to climate change that is progressive and modern and puts us at the forefront of countries who are not only addressing the challenge that faces future generations but finding the opportunities within that for job creation, for investment in our regions. That will be a major focus of the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBacking up that are three major reform programmes that this Government has under way: the reform of our planning rules, the reform of water, and the reform of our health system. These are three critical underpinning aspects of what will make all of those major goals for the Government work. If you put that agenda together\u2014around climate change, around child wellbeing, around housing affordability, around health, around water, and around planning\u2014you have a massive, ambitious programme of work to make sure that New Zealand can thrive both socially and economically into the future. The Budget is going to be focused around building off all of those things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor New Zealand, as we look to this Budget Policy Statement, we have to make sure that the balance\u2014the careful balance\u2014that we have struck around fiscal management continues throughout the next few years. I heard my colleague Duncan Webb, just as I was coming into the House, talk about the importance of not adopting austerity policies, because the thing that would take New Zealand backwards would be to believe that having saved for the rainy day and then used the money when the rainy day arrived\u2014to suddenly think that we can click our fingers and go back to where we were and that that will not damage the social fabric of New Zealand is plain wrong, but it does seem to be what we\u2019re hearing from the Opposition. So Andrew Bayly mimicking the bored cat\u2014he wanted the borders open; he wanted the borders closed. He also wanted us to borrow more and borrow less at the same time. I invite National Party speakers, when they get up, to tell us: do they approve of the borrowing programme? And if they don\u2019t, what goes? What\u2019s not going to happen? What\u2019s going to get cut in order to bring that debt level back down, right down to where it was before we went in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOf course we will continue on a path of debt reduction. It is the right thing to do, and that path is laid out in the Budget Policy Statement. Of course we will make sure that we continue to work towards a sustainable surplus. We will do all of those things because that is the right thing to do, and that is the balance, but it has to be balanced against investment in our people, in public services, in education, in health and housing. So the National Party can\u2019t have it both ways. Either we borrowed the money and it was the right thing to do, or they want to make sure we go back to austerity. They\u2019re the two options in front of the National Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we are absolutely convinced of the strategy that sits inside this Budget Policy Statement. It is a strategy of a balanced approach that invests in our infrastructure, that supports the core public services that we need, and that has a plan for making sure that we address climate change and gives our young people, our children, a future. I\u2019m proud of the Budget Policy Statement, and I look forward to delivering the Budget in May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002262c8c098ede5465699b92d1195af3f47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262c8c098ede5465699b92d1195af3f47\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E My colleagues were speculating on who would be the next Labour Minister of Finance, and the name that came out was Dr Duncan Webb. Frankly, he couldn\u2019t do much worse a job than the one we\u2019ve got now. That\u2019s not my pick, I have to say. I think the next Labour finance Minister is sitting two seats behind him and could be the first female Minister of Finance. That\u2019s Barbara Edmonds. She\u2019s the rising star in an otherwise\u2014well, interesting intake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EI have to say about the Budget Policy Statement (BPS), though, from the Minister of Finance, the only thing fiscally prudent about this is the photo on the front, and clearly they\u2019ve saved a few hundred dollars in getting it done professionally. The Minister couldn\u2019t even be parochial. It\u2019s not an Otago shot, it\u2019s not a Dunedin, it\u2019s not Otago Peninsula, but it is probably a little less than the cost of what\u2019s inside this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, I want to take up the point that was made on page 19 of the Budget Policy Statement, because it\u2019s simply not right. It says, \u201CBefore the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Labour-led Government ran surpluses.\u201D Well, actually, they didn\u2019t. It should have a few more words at the end of that. They ran surpluses into the ground and in two years took fiscal projections of surpluses up to $8.5 billion by, I think, 2024 or 2025 and turned it into a deficit by 2019/20. Now, COVID needed spending, but the amount of financial licence that has been taken by this Government and the use of COVID as a cover for financial profligacy is, I think, something that we need to talk about, because if there\u2019s one thing that Labour Governments do really well, it\u2019s spending money, and the perfect storm is the conditions that enable them, that give them the licence to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe Minister asked, challenged us, to say that we wouldn\u2019t have to borrow it. I don\u2019t agree. We would. We would\u2019ve done many of the things that this Government has done, and we did do them in times of other crisis\u2014the global financial crisis, where we made sure that not a single person had a benefit cut or was supported otherwise during those longer, much longer, straitened times. But the idea that if we were to spend less than this Government somehow things should have to be cut is a myth and it\u2019s wrong and it needs to be put down and away. The reality is that growing the economy helps the Government, helps Crown revenue. Holding the economy stable and improving it is the best way to reduce borrowing. Returning back to surplus sooner than we otherwise might is the best way to reduce our debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ENow, the Government\u2019s done well in that regard. But you know what? Going into lockdown was the easiest part of COVID. Managing and controlling people\u2019s lives and telling them what they can and cannot do and closing borders is actually quite easy. Moving from pandemic to endemic and safely opening borders and actually allowing international students in and allowing tourists in and the essential workers that we have so that fruit doesn\u2019t rot on the ground in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and Coromandel and Central Otago\u2014that\u2019s the tough stuff. And how much more are we going to have to borrow because of the loss of Crown revenue, because of the loss of profit, because of the decisions that have and have not been taken by this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ETreasury point out, and the BPS says, that there is significant uncertainty about the trajectory that we\u2019re on, and one of the reasons for that uncertainty\u2014and the biggest uncertainty, in my mind\u2014is Crown revenue. Now, the numbers in this statement are frankly heroic, and they\u2019re based on receipts that are cash, GST\u2014so spending has been OK\u2014provisional tax. But tax on profits eventually finally returned is going to be down\u2014significantly down, I would suggest\u2014on what this Budget Policy Statement is saying. It is a rose-tinted view of the revenue projections for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EAnd the degree of borrowing and the projections for future borrowing are going to be affected by interest rates. We know now from Air New Zealand that the Government lends at a pretty eye-wateringly high rate. The chances are it\u2019s borrowing at something higher than some parts of the market would have, but there\u2019s no doubt that when inflation hits, interest rates will go up. And inflation is coming. You can\u2019t spend as much as we are spending and not have an inflationary environment. They\u2019ve probably prevented deflation with the Reserve Bank policies that are being embarked upon. But we see from the housing market that if one pump primes $20 billion into a housing market that doesn\u2019t have increased supply and prices will go up, the eventual effect of that on the rest of the economy is that inflation will occur across the economy, not just in the housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s the spending that\u2019s the one thing the Government does control. And there\u2019s no doubt that COVID has been used as a stalking horse for significant structural spending increases. If one looks at the trajectory, if it was COVID and COVID was finite, then the spending trajectory should then drop again, and it doesn\u2019t. And it doesn\u2019t because this Government has spent 3\u00BD years doing things that don\u2019t add to productivity: increasing wages in the Government sector well beyond that which has taken place in the private sector. I\u2019m not saying that doctors, nurses, and schoolteachers don\u2019t deserve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3179a5d18924deba04e013978de1954\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: Yes you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3aa0c5ac2f54b12ba92b4a01e3c65f2\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220050881b8bb247a4b17069bc96180876\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: At the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e25b7e6af2754121bb496407360b9d3e\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. And there has to be a quid pro quo. There has to be an expectation that services will improve. The irony of this Government talking about wellbeing Budgets is that the very metrics that they would use to measure wellbeing, they\u2019ve dispensed with. They\u2019ve dispensed with better Public Service targets, they\u2019ve dispensed with national health targets, and they don\u2019t want to talk about things like NCEA pass rates or reoffending, because they\u2019re all going the wrong way. And they\u2019re going the wrong way because they\u2019re not being measured. The public sector is not being held to account in the way that they are used to being held to account under a National-led Government, and that means fewer kids are getting immunised, fewer houses are getting insulated by the State, cancer treatment is going longer, kids are failing at school, reoffending is high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db34ad531830462d94ee0b05407550a6\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Some people can\u2019t get mental help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b57ac74058c4969b2da4b203eeb20cb\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m going to come to mental health, Mr Luxon. It\u2019s a very good segue, because the cornerstone of the 2019 Budget was $1.9 billion, according to the Government, of spending in mental health. Well, that was a myth, because $400 million of that was in pay equity settlements, another $400 million of that was in cost pressure increases that would\u2019ve occurred regardless of who was in Government, and about $300 million of that was in housing support, not mental health. So the kindest thing you can say about that mental health announcement was that there was probably $800 million over four years, OK? Call it what it is. And that might\u2019ve made an improvement if it was even spent. But my colleague Matt Doocey has been prosecuting the case that, actually, we\u2019re still stuck at the start line. And the reason is this: announcements don\u2019t improve mental health. Announcements don\u2019t build houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d08ee50978e74c7abdbbafca4a90115f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Surely not!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7153b4e6854acbb39fe389ddca3a5d\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, apparently. We\u2019ve come to know that now, Mr Seymour. Just talking about it doesn\u2019t get it done. So I would support this spending and the envelope\u2014I think it\u2019s $10.2 billion in operating expenses and $8 billion in capital expenditure\u2014if I could see any evidence that the roads that they announced, the shovel-ready projects, the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, Dunedin Hospital\u2014Dunedin Hospital was announced by the previous Government four years ago this week. The indicative business case was approved, and, four years later, we\u2019ve got a flat car park where we knocked over a building, and the detailed business case still hasn\u2019t gone to Cabinet. Four years. If that\u2019s an example of the performance and the output of this Government, we\u2019re in big trouble.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003EThe finance committee heard this morning from Treasury, and we\u2019ve previously heard from the Auditor-General, who has reviewed the 2019/20 account, and they expressed significant concern about this very point that there is insignificant robust reporting on Government performance. \u201CThere should be reporting\u201D\u2014I\u2019m quoting from Treasury. \u201CThere should be reporting on what services have been delivered and what has been achieved.\u201D Under this Government, Treasury say too much reporting is widget focused. They\u2019re not focusing on the right things. They talk about lovely wellbeing outcomes. That\u2019s fine. They know how to announce things, but they don\u2019t know how to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003ESo we need a Budget that delivers quality spending, quality infrastructure, and we need a Government that actually follows up on what it says and makes sure that the people of New Zealand benefit from that, because the last three years are certainly evidence that they don\u2019t have that capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022badf85f1014c4d8f9851b5868a379ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022badf85f1014c4d8f9851b5868a379ee3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call T\u0101mati Coffey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00228ee7baa848c84876ad7948f215bced54\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ee7baa848c84876ad7948f215bced54\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Very pleased as a non-member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee to stand and take a call on this, because it\u2019s incredibly important that those people that are listening to the debate right now understand that this Budget Policy Statement sets a framework for how we\u2019re going to be able to deliver for our M\u0101ori and our Pacific communities. I felt it was important to bring that voice into this debate today as we\u2019re talking about the Budget Policy Statement, because it needs to be said. It needs to be said that actually explicitly having an objective in the Wellbeing Budget for 2021 centred around the benefits of M\u0101ori and Pacific is huge\u2014having it actually singled out there, making sure that we\u2019re lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, making sure that we\u2019re providing those skills and opportunities, and making sure that we\u2019re looking after those communities as we work through the impacts of COVID-19. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThese will be pleasing for our M\u0101ori and Pasifika communities to hear this, because one of the last things they might have heard was just how severe the unemployment rate for our communities was going to be. At one point, Treasury had it at about 26 percent\u2014they were predicting. That had huge implications as a forecast. It definitely put the shock into our communities, thinking that the sky was going to fall in, that we would be doing it tough for a very long time. Where I come from in the Bay of Plenty, we only have to look at how the forestry sector was affected in the 1980s when the whole game changed. There was economic scarring left from that lack of investment into those small communities that is still felt these days. But we are in a different time. It\u2019s a new Parliament. It\u2019s a new day. And this Budget Policy Statement, I can assure you, is going to deliver for our M\u0101ori and our Pacific communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ENow, some of the fears caught up in\u2014especially last year after we had such a huge year, COVID definitely put everybody into a tailspin. Again, this was one of the pillars. M\u0101ori and Pacific was a pillar that we had last year as well, and look at the investment that we saw. We actually saw significant investment into things like jobs, making sure that we didn\u2019t have a 26 percent M\u0101ori unemployment rate; making sure that we had things like the wage subsidy scheme, things like the income relief payment for M\u0101ori, but also workers, businesses to be able to stay the course and hold on to their jobs. That was an amazing initiative put forward by this Government to get everybody through what was an incredibly tough time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EIn terms of the health of our people, the doubling of the winter energy payment in 2020 was significant. We were telling people to stay home. \u201CStay home.\u201D\u2014we said\u2014\u201CIt\u2019s winter, but stay home.\u201D Well, that\u2019s going to have a knock-on effect for people that can\u2019t actually afford to stay home, that have been made to stay home. So we doubled the winter energy payment to make sure that whilst they were staying home, they were also staying warm, because, actually, we\u2019ve had enough of hearing about how our damp, cold houses in New Zealand are affecting our people. We\u2019re already moving to make some changes to turn that around. But one thing that we could do, which was immediate, was actually the doubling of the winter energy payment, and I look forward to more\u2014well, actually, I look forward to that kicking off again this year. Many New Zealanders will be pleased to hear that the winter energy payment is kicking in again really soon, as the seasons change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EFinally, in my short contribution, I want to talk about the investment that we put into education\u2014specifically, again, to lift our M\u0101ori and Pasifika communities up by implementing and expanding the free and healthy school lunch programme. We were able to expand that out to another 200,000 more students. Now, there\u2019s an equity formula that underpins that that absolutely benefits M\u0101ori and Pasifika communities. Why? Because they need a bit of extra help. Actually, communities like that see this scheme\u2014the school lunches scheme; the free school lunches scheme\u2014as a game-changer, a game-changer for your own household budget. Suddenly there\u2019s an expense that you don\u2019t need to worry about. And also, from the teacher\u2019s point of view, it is a game-changer in the classroom as well, where young learners are showing up to school, they\u2019re being taken care of, but they\u2019re also being fed at the same time. This improves their concentration level, it improves the amount of waste that schools produce, and it leads to happier learners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo, if they were the pillars of our Budget in our policy statement last year, then this year I think that actually we\u2019re going to do quite well out of it. We\u2019re going to be making sure that our jobs are still secure for our communities, going to make sure that we\u2019re providing in terms of health and in education as well. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3e0f5feeb3e4dcb94e80f7cef291e08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3e0f5feeb3e4dcb94e80f7cef291e08\u0022\u003EBARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to be able to take a call in support of the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). I\u2019m going to focus my call on the wellbeing objective of lifting M\u0101ori and Pacific income, skills, and opportunities and combating the inequalities of COVID-19 with specific reference to Pacific peoples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe Budget Policy Statement references the Speech from the Throne, and I quote: \u201CWe have more freedoms, are a more open economy, and have saved more lives than nearly every other country we normally compare ourselves to. We can rightfully be proud of our success to date as a nation, as team, but we cannot afford to be complacent nor stand still. We must keep going.\u201D And for the sake of our Pacific population here in Aotearoa, we cannot stand still. The Lancet, a medical journal, noted that M\u0101ori, Pacific, and Asian peoples were at higher risk of severe outcomes from COVID-19 than any other population. However, we as Pacific peoples didn\u2019t need a medical journal to tell us that. Our elders recall that with the influenza pandemic in 1918, where 22 percent of Samoa\u2019s population was wiped out, and then more recently with the measles epidemic in 2019. Our wellbeing objective to lift M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skill, and opportunities is critical to New Zealand\u2019s long-term success, and I repeat: it is critical. That\u2019s why submissions on the BPS were overwhelmingly in support of this objective. So I acknowledge the Minister of Finance for recognising this and for making it clear in the Budget Policy Statement that we cannot stand still when it comes to improving outcomes for M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe BPS also references that education, health, and housing outcomes in New Zealand vary significantly by socioeconomic background and ethnicity. We know the stats around Pacific people. The average material standard of living for Pacific people is around half lower, for M\u0101ori a third lower, than for the general population. Pacific people are typically more severely affected by wage scarring by recessions and are more likely to have poorer health outcomes. The ability for many Pacific and M\u0101ori people to achieve their aspirations is impeded when the health, education, housing, and social welfare systems do not address the multi-faceted intergenerational disadvantages. But you know what? Despite these inequalities in housing, income, and health, Treasury in their Pacific Economy report in 2018 found that Pacific peoples contribute $8 billion towards New Zealand\u2019s GDP and over 27,000 hours of volunteering. The Minister of Finance at the launch of that report stated that there is massive opportunity to invest in the Pacific community, looking at the overall approach to wellbeing. These are Pacific values of family, culture, language, and heritage, and it\u2019s clear in this BPS that the Minister is taking up this opportunity. That is why this Government for the last three years has made it a priority to improve the lives of Pacific peoples here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe BPS makes reference to previous investment. For Pacific people, this included Budget 2018, which laid the foundations for the future with $1.6 billion over four years for schools, early childhood education, 1,500 new teachers, and the Families Package, which many Pacific families were benefactors of. The 2019 Wellbeing Budget secured an unprecedented amount of new funding of over $113 million over four years to boost support for Pacific communities across Aotearoa to achieve their vision of confident, thriving, resilient, and prosperous Pacific Aotearoa people, and Pacific-led solutions in education, health, languages, and culture and community wellbeing. Budget 2020 secured $195 million for the Pacific package to support the recovery and rebuild of the Pacific community. We launched the Action Plan for Pacific Education. We extended the Tupu Aotearoa programme, and Mana in Mahi. These are the action plans and investments that underpin previous Budget Policy Statements. So I look forward to what investment comes from this Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI finish my contribution today by acknowledging the thousands of students who are participating in the largest cultural music and dance festival in the world. Today is the opening day of Polyfest, which was cancelled last year due to COVID-19. We are able to hold this festival and festivals like Pasifika, events like the Relay for Life, the Pinkalicious Breakfast this weekend at Te Rauparaha Arena in Porirua because the Government put our people first. We knew that a health response was the best economic response. So I quote again from the BPS and the Speech from the Throne: \u201CWe can rightfully be proud of our success to date as a nation, as a team, but we cannot afford to be complacent, nor stand still. We must keep going.\u201D There is more work to do, but this Government is not standing still. Fa\u2019afetai tele lava.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5918cf7d69b4baa97bda7cbb9d1d34c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5918cf7d69b4baa97bda7cbb9d1d34c\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I rise to speak on the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) in looking at what we should expect, and then I\u2019m going to focus specifically on climate change and climate action, how this relates to what the Minister of Finance has laid a path down for, and what the Greens\u2019 aspirations are in the economic transformation that is essential\u2014that is essential\u2014to an economy that can reduce our emissions in a way that makes sure that everyone has what they need to live good lives. That is the key to climate change: that it is actually system transformation, economic transformation, and that it is interconnected to all of the issues that I know we all care about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo it is refreshing to see a Minister of Finance who is prepared to even use the words \u201Cclimate change\u201D in the Budget Policy Statement. We know that previous National finance Ministers seemed happy for Governments to sign up to international climate change targets, but didn\u2019t put any backing behind reaching those targets, didn\u2019t have a plan or resourcing to actually meet those targets. So this report from the select committee on the BPS is a refreshing change. It is also important to see that a just transition\u2014and I think these are the very words\u2014to a climate resilient, sustainable, and low-emissions economy is a specific objective in the Budget Policy Statement. Likewise, it is important to see that we have a whole section of the select committee report on the Budget Policy Statement on climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIt is about time. It is long past time, in fact, because scientists tell us that, actually, 2030 will be a tipping point, and 2030 is not that far away. If we don\u2019t get our emissions under control, and if we don\u2019t have an economic transformation that can reduce our emissions well before then, then we are actually going to lock in a high-emission climate future, where we have more violent storms, more extreme weather patterns, more devastating droughts, rising seas swamping our coastal communities in Aotearoa and in the Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022246fd1c5214f4f5b96ca42790febf24c\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s like the Bible!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227adabfd83ce54041a07a4cc9ea99be57\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not like the Bible; it\u2019s happening right now. It is already happening. For those of us who understand the planning that is going to be required to actually protect our planet and her people, then we need the planning right now. So 2030, we have only eight harvest cycles left to change the way we farm, to change the way we use land, to change the way we grow and produce food. We only have eight winters to make sure that the way electricity and the way that we heat our homes is clean and from wind, solar, and hydro, not coal and gas. We have eight years, eight school years, to allow parents and wh\u0101nau safe, clean, affordable alternatives to driving their children to school. This means that we must get serious about actual economic transformation, and the Minister for Climate Change is working across the Government to get these very things happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe urgency of the climate crisis means every part of Government\u2014and I had some colleagues over here yelling out, \u201CWhat about housing?\u201D This is our point and this has always been our point. Every part of Government\u2014the parts that are responsible for housing, the parts that are responsible for making sure everyone has enough to live, the parts that are responsible for our health system, the parts that are responsible for our water\u2014needs to work together to ensure that we are addressing the climate crisis. The BPS report shows\u2014and this is the important part\u2014actually that the Crown\u2019s books are in better shape than was expected, that the deficit and core Crown debt are less than what was expected, and that revenue is more than what was expected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo we do continue to weather the COVID-19 storm, and the report on BPS shows that, right now, money is cheap. The Government\u2019s borrowing costs are low right now and likely to stay low, so now is the time\u2014now is the time\u2014to invest in a just transition. A just transition is the transition that will ensure that we are not leaving people behind who are already struggling, living in poverty; that we are not leaving behind people who are struggling, living without a dignified, long-term, healthy, quality home. So that has always been the understanding and the position of the Green Party. Now is the time to invest in how we actually plan ahead. What if we connected homes and communities together with electric buses that come every 10 minutes and are free for kids to catch to school, lowering our emissions? What if we built thousands of State homes that have solar panels to be able to also lower the costs of people being able to heat their homes? What if we empowered community groups to grow gardens, feeding their communities locally and all around in the year? What if we invested in our people by raising incomes so that everyone has enough to live with dignity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI think the Minister of Finance is already on this journey to the economic transformation that is needed for climate change. The question is, though, how big a step will Budget 2021 actually take on that journey? Now, I\u2019d like to remind the House that it was, in fact, Jeanette Fitzsimons who said in this very House, many years ago, that our nation\u2019s wellbeing is not a number on a GDP chart. She said GDP mainly measures the rate at which resources are turned into trash. The long-before visioning of the late Jeanette Fitzsimons is the vision that we still hold to today in the Green Party. We welcome the spirit of the Government\u2019s wellbeing approach to Budgets, which is finally moving beyond the narrow restriction of what the GDP actually measures and starts to answer: what do we really value, is this enduring, and are we putting our investment where we have a long-term, enduring, sustainable plan to look after our planet and her people in a way that benefits everyone and not just a few, in a way that stops exploiting and pulling dirty fuels and dirty energy from our earth that contribute to the higher emissions of our current economic framework? This is what we are wanting to see in the upcoming Budget 2021 this year. So having a formal, organised way to look at the spending decisions that Government makes in terms of the impact on people, nature, and communities is a good thing. It is an essential thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe also welcome the development of He Ara Waiora as a way to supply and ensure that there is a Te Ao M\u0101ori lens to the wellbeing approach and the Treasury\u2019s Living Standards Framework. And just before I start to wind down at the end of my time, I wanted to acknowledge the thousands of young people across the country who rallied for climate action to address the climate crisis. One of the signs\u2014one of my favourite signs that was held that day, which is relevant to the economic transformation that we are seeing some hope for in the BPS\u2014said, \u201CIndigenous people must thrive for Papat\u016B\u0101nuku to survive.\u201D It is those very values that will return us to an economic framework that properly does want to look after the planet and our people for many generations to come, not just a short-term fiscal outlook that is going to continue to shovel the benefits mainly into the hands of the few on the back of exploiting the many. That is the vision and kaupapa of what the Green Party are proud to support, and that we are here in this Parliament to continue to pressure for that very economic transformation that must take place for the long-term enduring good of everyone, our planet, and nature. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220653f96ab7f04d8a93572eb82bbb9d42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220653f96ab7f04d8a93572eb82bbb9d42\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This Budget Policy Statement sets out again that the Government will have a wellbeing focus. It says that there\u2019s going to be a just transition to new fuels. How\u2019s that working out? Well, it turns out that we\u2019re having a dress rehearsal of what this Government\u2019s just transition looks like. By banning exploration for the most efficient, cleanest-burning fuel that could be used for a just transition, we find ourselves burning coal. That\u2019s what the future is going to be like. There will be more coal in our future because this Government\u2019s just transition is so myopic they have banned the one fuel that could be used for a transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then they say that we\u2019re going to have better child wellbeing. Well, there are some kids who go to King\u2019s College\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225724d788f6c04ab58d75aaa64301c831\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Very negative\u2014very negative!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022494ca9d0ccf54cdaa072eb5165b27088\u0022\u003EDAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and they get very good grades, and Willie Jackson can tell the House all about it in a moment. But then there are other kids at decile 1 schools. Do you know what the pass rate is for kids at decile 1 schools at university entrance? Oh, about 20 percent\u2014you know, less than half of what it is for kids at decile 10 schools. Child wellbeing\u2014has anybody heard about the performance of Oranga Tamariki? A scandal from start to finish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then we talk about physical and mental wellbeing. This from the Government where a Minister of the Crown calls other politicians a nutter in front of 400,000 people on Mike Hosking. That\u2019s the Government. And is it any wonder, if that\u2019s the attitude of senior Ministers of Cabinet in this Government, that we have school principals in the Epsom electorate, including where Chris Luxon\u2019s daughters went to school, who are telling me just this week that they have serious difficulties with students getting into mental health services because COVID has pushed kids over the edge and the services for them are not scaling up to meet that demand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThis is the reality of this Government. They said it\u2019s a wellbeing Government, a just transition, the future of work, M\u0101ori and Pasifika, child wellbeing, physical and mental wellbeing. Well, it\u2019s not just the ACT Party which says that this is a triumph of spin over substance. We said that two years ago when they first started talking about a Wellbeing Budget. I was astonished, and I think it\u2019s unusual for a social democrat Government to be lambasted in The Guardian. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENow, this is the newspaper that took over from the Red Star, and they are lambasting this Labour Party because, it says, this wellbeing Government, this Wellbeing Budget was supposedly world leading. \u201CBut\u201D, it says, \u201Cthe country still struggles with deep-seated social problems that seem incongruous \u2026 growing inequality; high rates of child poverty, the worst youth suicide rate in the developed world; [stifled] \u2026 progress on climate change. Its housing affordability crisis has become one of the worst in the world and has countless flow-on effects. The waiting list for public housing has hit an all-time high, with 20,000 families waiting for a home\u2014four times what it was when Labour was elected in 2017.\u201D That\u2019s what the left-wing Guardian is saying about this Government\u2019s Wellbeing Budget. That\u2019s how the initiative is going three years in. It is a disaster by its own standards. The idea of a Wellbeing Budget cannot be taken seriously. There is no substance. It\u2019s all spin. By the very measures that this Government set for itself, it is failing in education, in health, in mental health, and housing, and The Guardian, to its credit, is calling this Labour Government out for its failings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut then there\u2019s what we normally worry about in a Budget, and that is: how much money is the Government spending? I hate to seem old-fashioned, but Budgets are supposed to be about how much money is the Government spending and what results is it getting for that spending. Well, one of the things that potentially people should be concerned about when it comes to Government spending is actually the amount of debt that this Government is taking on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe now have a projection that there\u2019s going to be 48 percent of GDP debt at its peak, and, incredibly, the Minister of Finance is trying to say that this is a good thing because previously the estimate was 53 percent of GDP debt at the peak. Well, the truth is that the biggest problem that this country faces in the short to medium term is that the Government has borrowed so much money when interest rates are low, knowing that interest rates may not stay low. It\u2019s easy to borrow a hundred billion bucks when the Reserve Bank is just printing it hand over fist. You know, some people say the Labour Party won the 2020 general election. I\u2019d say Social Credit won it, because they\u2019re the ones that are having their policies implemented, funding the Government by printing \u201Cfunny money\u201D. The only difficulty with that is that eventually you get inflation, as someone could have read in the Herald this morning from Richard Prebble, a fantastic former member of this House. If you increase the supply of money and the supply of goods and services stay the same, inflation is what happens and it\u2019s happening in the housing market. That\u2019s why the housing market\u2019s gone up 22 percent in the last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s difficult to overstate how badly this Government has failed. They have managed to be elected to fix housing. In fact, Stuart Nash\u2014he had a few clangers this morning on Hosking\u2014said the Government has \u201Cfixed housing.\u201D! I would hate to see this Labour Government screw something up if a 22 percent increase in house prices, and therefore a reduction in affordability, is this Government \u201Cfixing\u201D something. Well, that\u2019s a direct result of the monetary policy that has been used to subsidise the Government\u2019s spending. Here\u2019s the problem. Eventually it doesn\u2019t work because people lose faith in the currency and interest rates have to rise back to the prices that people will actually loan the Government money. And when that happens, having borrowed on low interest rates, facing high interest rates, we are in a mess of trouble. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen the Government\u2019s Budget policy response says: \u201CBut we\u2019ve done such a good job on the Government\u2019s response to COVID-19.\u201D Well, let\u2019s just think about that for a moment. This Government had a less challenging job responding to an epidemic than any other country on Earth. And we know this is true, because I asked the Minister responsible: could he name a country that went into COVID-19 with greater isolation, with a more sophisticated civil society, with greater wealth, and that was in a better position to fight a pandemic? He could not name one because there isn\u2019t one. And having had the easiest, least challenging job in the world, they have duffed it time after time after time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EJust this morning on the Health Committee, the officials admitted that case B at the Grand Millennium hadn\u2019t been tested for the last four months. Now, this is not a new thing. This was litigated through the press in this Parliament all through the end of last year. The Government was asked: \u201CIs the Government testing people who work at MIQ?\u201D \u201COh yes, we\u2019re testing them now. We didn\u2019t before, but we\u2019re testing them now.\u201D They\u2019re still not testing them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd then there\u2019s vaccination. I remember a great word in New Zealand politics, and it\u2019s time to bring it back: \u201Comnishambles\u201D. We are facing an omnishambles in vaccination, because, fundamentally, this Government cannot put in place the information systems to understand who\u2019s vaccinating who with which vaccine and when. It\u2019s going to be the gift that\u2019s going to keep on giving for an Opposition, but a disaster for the rest of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo what should we want instead from our Government? It\u2019s actually not particularly complex. What we should want from a Government in this Budget is an opportunity to grow out of our country\u2019s challenges. It starts with honest conversations about the challenges this country is facing, about the debt, about the gaps in educational attainment, about the inability to produce urban land\u2014land that is consented and connected to opportunity by infrastructure so the next generation can build homes like the boomers. If we have those honest conversations about the real challenges facing this country, perhaps we could also grow our productivity and be in a position to pay down the debt. But at this point, we have a Government that pursues a whole lot of objectives\u2014airy fairy. It\u2019s failed. Even The Guardian says so. It\u2019s time for New Zealand to unite behind good ideas, and stop wasting money on the divisive spin over substance that is fast becoming the trademark of this Labour Government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00224f6a63558fe84fb1989d76f92d37794c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f6a63558fe84fb1989d76f92d37794c\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a privilege to rise and speak about the Budget Policy Statement, and I thought I might actually do it\u2014we might actually talk about that right now. So the first thing that I want to talk about is the fact that I want to acknowledge that it\u2019s been a really, really hard year for New Zealanders. It\u2019s been very hard in Auckland Central, and it\u2019s been very hard in my area of work prior to politics, which is that I represented both employers and employees. It\u2019s been a tough year, and we are still weathering a crisis. It is not over. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI was very proud of the statement that we had, because this is a statement that has a vision attached to it, something that I have not seen in almost anything from the Opposition today. We have a Budget Policy Statement that contains a vision that is the vision that I want for my children. Just transition is about economic transformation. So is the future of work, which is another commitment that has been made. This is a Budget that will look at things like innovation and decent work. It will raise wages. It is a Budget that looks at wellbeing. It looks at children\u2019s wellbeing and the physical and mental wellbeing of our citizens. It looks at M\u0101ori and Pasifika and children who have been left behind. It is a vision for a decent future, and I\u2019m proud of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe Living Standards Framework is not fluffy in the slightest. It is the kind of framework I want. It\u2019s one that\u2019s richer and deeper than a simple cost-benefit analysis, but it doesn\u2019t shy away from that either. It looks at the four kinds of capital: human capital\u2014skills and knowledge; natural capital\u2014the environment; social capital, being communities and wellbeing; and the physical landscape we live in, which is also our capital. It builds these things back better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThe crisis we have faced has been one that the Labour Party has faced with its values, and that has led to success. We have unemployment that is at 4.9 percent, and the peak of it was 5.3 percent. That is way lower than was projected by Treasury, which optimistically predicted an 8.5 percent unemployment rate, and the OECD world, which peaked at 8.8. What went right was our values and our leadership. We have had the best health response, and that has been the best economic response. I hate to think what would have happened if, in fact, there had been a different Government leading this country during this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe have had a situation where we have built our Public Service. We have built our tracking and tracing. We have done that. I was reading recently a book by Mariana Mazzucato, where she talks about the mission economy and she talks about how that opportunity has been lost in her own country of the UK, whereas here we have built those things, and we have a richer, stronger bureaucracy and support structure in our Public Service as a consequence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe have been putting working people first, and I was very, very proud to see that happen with regard to the wage subsidy. It was my experience in that time that I was advising employers and employees, and actually that subsidy and the way it rolled out so quickly and so responsively reassured so many people, and I am absolutely confident it is the reason why our unemployment rates were so low. Work is so important to people. It is so important to their wealth. It is so important to their mental health, wellbeing. It is an incredibly important thing, and I\u2019m very proud of our Minister of Finance for having achieved that. We have had resurgence payments which have now targeted those who still need support, and I\u2019m just proud of that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very interesting contrast when you look at what happened in Australia over payments like the wage subsidy, which were held back. We had a much better response because we got them out the door. Do you know why that happened? It\u2019s not an accident that that came from the Labour Party. It\u2019s because the Labour Party knows about working people, it knows what working people need, and it is grounded, and so it actually produces those things that people need in a timely fashion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThere was a bounce. We had a credit rating adjustment recently that was an AA\u002B rating. It\u2019s an incredibly good sign when we get that kind of bounce. It is a bounce that is about results that we have had in our economy. We have had an operating balance before gains and losses\u2014the deficit has been $5 billion less than was forecast. We have a $3 billion higher than forecast core Crown revenue, and we have net core Crown debt of 27 percent instead of what was predicted in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update of 30 percent. That\u2019s really just as important as paying back money fast, because we just don\u2019t have to pay it back at all. It\u2019s a good start, but it\u2019s going to be a rocky road, and nobody is being complacent here. The secretary of Treasury said that they only predicted moderate growth and we\u2019ll return to surplus in 2027. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to talk a little bit about the future of work, because that\u2019s something that I have a really keen and practical interest in. There were a thousand places given in trade academies. There\u2019s support for taking on apprentices\u201420 percent more in October 2020 from the year before. That\u2019s actually a huge thing, because apprenticeships were just lost for so long\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e4bce67c8994074a7ae008d7be64a78\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If members want to have conversations, can they please step out. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022746d4a7feb0545c0a5086499d49b18d4\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: In that time, we lost so much opportunity to train our own people and give them good jobs. Actually, what I\u2019ve heard from the Opposition today is that what they would like to do is return to the old style, where we actually just bring people into the country, where we bring in low-paid workers, where we return to low-paid industries. This is not the future of New Zealand. The future of New Zealand is high-wage work, it\u2019s training our own people, and it\u2019s making a difference which is sustainable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to make a comment about Michael Woodhouse\u2019s comment recently. He was just talking about how the money that had been set aside in mental health basically got frittered away in pay equity claims. The suggestion was that that was not a good use of money. I want to talk about that for just a minute and think about it, because there\u2019s been that criticism, and the criticism of sick pay, and the criticism of the minimum wage. All these things are about paying people what they\u2019re worth. This is about putting money absolutely into the right place, into our poorest people, into people who will then spend it in the economy. They will not invest it in other things or go overseas; they will put it right back here. These are the people that I want to work hard to make sure they have better lives. So this is absolutely what we should be doing. These are our most exploited workers and these are the people that we need to focus on in the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to talk about housing. Housing has been a hugely difficult issue\u2014nobody is suggesting otherwise\u2014but it is being attended to. Rather than being naysaying, it would be good to see the National Party see the situation with some degree of lack of interest in investors, because what actually has happened here is that investors have been tipped into the new build market, and that\u2019s a very good thing, because that means that we\u2019re going to increase stock. Otherwise, the behaviour that was going on, where they were simply buying houses, is actually simply rent-seeking. It produces nothing, and we need that money that is available from investors to go into something real, to something productive, that gives New Zealanders something back. So I am very, very proud of those recent announcements, and I look forward to some much more significant ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db8df81673aa4d3392470863de7472e0\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: 4,000 kids in motels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022265cfbc38dc44258a797807821c027dc\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: The children in motels and the children that are actually housed, I am proud of, because it is a whole lot better than it was, Nicola Willis, when they lived in cars. I have been in Auckland Central and I have seen children living in cars, and I am much prouder that, actually, homeless people during the crisis and people who have been in those situations are actually now looked after. I am particularly proud of the humane response there has been, to get people into housing, and we will work at it. We will continue to work at it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to finish by saying I am extremely proud of this statement, and I am proud of the values that underpin it. I\u2019m proud of Grant Robertson\u2019s work in this area. I\u2019m proud of the committee\u2019s work. I\u2019m proud of the submitters who came to us and talked to us about wellbeing. They did that because the door was opened by the vision that was shared with them, and so we heard from all sorts of people who may not necessarily have agreed or disagreed with everything we had to say but contributed at that level. We\u2019ve changed the conversation in New Zealand, and I\u2019m proud of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002257533a54ff254ffc96de12b645793e7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257533a54ff254ffc96de12b645793e7f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e373210ae90744a48d58413360a18307\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e373210ae90744a48d58413360a18307\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (National):\u003C/span\u003E Labour\u2019s so-called wellbeing approach is a hoax, and it is completely proven by that last speech. Here we have a Budget Policy Statement that claims to be about child wellbeing, to be about reducing child poverty, to be about growing social capital, and yet what we have in front of us is a Minister who is overseeing the biggest number of children living in motels in this country that we have ever seen in our history. And that Minister knows, because I have read the advice that she\u2019s been getting for two years\u2014I\u2019ve read the advice, Minister, I\u2019ve got it under the Official Information Act, and you\u2019ve been advised for more than two years that those children, those families, those New Zealanders living in motels are not being given the support they need. They\u2019re not in stable accommodation. That Minister has been told by her officials that her department can\u2019t ensure the quality or safety of the accommodation providers that she is letting thousands of children be raised in. And they\u2019re not being raised in these motels for seven days or so, no, because now the average length of stay on Minister Sepuloni\u2019s watch is when someone turns up to the Government and says, \u201CI\u2019m in desperate need, I need a house.\u201D Minister Sepuloni says, \u201CI\u2019ll put you in that motel there, and, on average, you\u2019ll spend 12\u00BD weeks there.\u201D But don\u2019t worry, you could be one of the hundreds\u2014the hundreds\u2014of people that on Minister Sepuloni\u2019s watch have spent months and months living in a motel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut Minister Sepuloni came into Government promising that she had a solution for all of this, didn\u2019t she? And we\u2019ll see it continuing to be reported in here, and the solution was really simple in Opposition, wasn\u2019t it, Minister? KiwiBuild. That\u2019s right, New Zealanders were promised 100,000 KiwiBuild homes, and that was going to ensure that children weren\u2019t living in disgusting circumstances. But, instead, what we have seen is that we are now in a situation where we are spending a million dollars a day putting kids up in a situation where, in questions I have asked that Minister, I have said to her, \u201CWhat health and safety check do her officials do of these accommodation providers?\u201D I have said to her, \u201CWhat wraparound support\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e2d33dec694c3b851d3d4814d71bda\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think National did any on cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7a7bbd9902c4636a95283a9adf7d466\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: You can keep defending it, Minister; it\u2019s indefensible. That Minister knows that her officials have been advising her, not for months but for years they have been saying to her, \u201CMinister, putting people up in motels at up to $450 a night is not only more expensive than building houses or putting them in transitional housing, it also doesn\u2019t provide those people with the wraparound support and services they need to get back on their feet. And that Minister has received briefing after briefing, memo after memo that has said to her, \u201CThis Government must exit from the motels. It must build houses.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd so they failed on KiwiBuild. So then what they like to say is, \u201COh, well we\u2019re going to build 18,000 houses.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s what they like to say. So let\u2019s actually analyse that, shall we? Because I think what that Minister also knows, because she\u2019s been receiving these briefings too, is that they\u2019re running well behind schedule on that, because it turns out they\u2019re not actually that good at building things\u201412 progressive homeownership homes so far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227145c00f1f474c3880d806ff542d7123\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: How many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5c0234c10e40e7a6d29cc7a29ab661\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Twelve\u2014792 KiwiBuild homes when 100,000 were promised. It was a hoax\u2014it\u2019s a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, I want to say to that Minister what New Zealanders have been saying to me. They\u2019re saying, \u201CIf this Government actually cares about kids, if this Government actually cares about value for money, wellbeing, social capital, why don\u2019t they take that million dollars a day that they\u2019re prepared to spend on cheques for motels\u2014take that money and get some houses built with it?\u201D Minister, right where you live, VisionWest, the Salvation Army, they have begged me. They\u2019ve said, \u201CJust tell the Government to take that money they\u2019re spending on cheques for motel rooms, invest it in us, the community housing sector; let us build homes for our people. Let us support them back on to their feet.\u201D But no, this Government thinks it always knows best. You can\u2019t just talk about wellbeing, you have to deliver. And when thousands of New Zealanders and 4,000 children are living in unsupported motels, it is not delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d12583ab88415fbd3a5bbbce5713e1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! This debate is interrupted. The House is suspended until 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229b7c7caae7e040e6a71eec7d2f96429f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b7c7caae7e040e6a71eec7d2f96429f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. The House is resumed. Members, before the dinner break, we were debating the Budget Policy Statement 2021. We\u2019re on call nine, which is a split call. I believe it\u2019s the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002238d0224b9437412c8ea0dcf0dc7a4802\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d0224b9437412c8ea0dcf0dc7a4802\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koe. The wellbeing of our people and our w\u2019enua should be at the heart of every decision a Government makes. So when this Government delivered its first Wellbeing Budget two years ago, it was a step in the right direction. It sent a strong signal that the strength of an economy can\u2019t be measured by GDP alone but by the wellbeing of its people and our environment it serves. We have long known as tangata w\u2019enua that GDP is not an accurate measure of the success, let alone the health, of our people, yet standing here today it is clear that the Government must do more to address decades of under-investment, deregulation, and liberalisation of the economy. So while it was a step forward, the Wellbeing Budget fell far short of the transformative policies our people need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EAs we always have been, M\u0101ori are at the sharpest end of the disparities of our broken economic system. P\u0101keh\u0101 have net worth almost five times higher than M\u0101ori. Non-M\u0101ori have 13 percent higher median wages. There has been no significant decrease in poverty for w\u2019\u0101nau M\u0101ori despite decreases for the general population. Homeownership is becoming completely unattainable for M\u0101ori. M\u0101ori homeownership rates have fallen since 1999. In the latest census, M\u0101ori individual homeownership fell to 26 percent, compared with 41 percent for non-M\u0101ori. Eleven thousand M\u0101ori are currently on the social housing register waiting list. Half of the entire waiting list are M\u0101ori, and for those who can get into social housing, it is still unaffordable. Current data indicates that 30 percent of M\u0101ori pay rent that is over 30 percent of their weekly income. M\u0101ori unemployment rose in the first quarter of 2020 to 9 percent, and the rate of young M\u0101ori not in employment, education, or training is at nearly 20 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe continue to see our w\u2019\u0101nau disproportionately suffering complex social problems, including high rates of poverty and the worst youth suicide rate in the developed world. It should hardly be a surprise, then, that this remains the situation for our people when the so-called Wellbeing Budget only delivered 0.3 percent of its overall funding in targeted M\u0101ori funding. A true measure of Budget success is how many structural barriers were removed, how many of our people\u2019s aspirations were advanced, because only then will we make a real difference for our w\u2019\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori are very clear what our Budget priorities are and what we would be doing. We need to massively ramp up targeted Vote M\u0101ori funding and ensure resources get to our people on the ground. Our people have their own solutions. This includes increasing Wh\u0101nau Ora funding and ensuring that it goes directly to the commissioning agencies; not lost in Government departments. We need to invest in what works and Wh\u0101nau Ora has proven itself to be delivering life-changing outcomes for our w\u2019\u0101nau. We would ensure all M\u0101ori medium education is funded equal to its mainstream equivalents through equity-based funding models and establish a $200 million fund to drive w\u2019\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi education and training initiatives, including the establishment of new hap\u016B-based w\u0101nanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ETe Paati M\u0101ori would double baseline benefit and student allowance levels, individualise benefits, and cancel income support - related debt. We would intervene directly in the housing market to build thousands more homes and introduce a targeted M\u0101ori housing plan that includes specific financial support schemes for home loans. We would create business and employment opportunities for our people by ensuring 25 percent of all Government procurement contracts are given to M\u0101ori organisations. We would establish a M\u0101ori health funding authority with a budget of $5 billion to oversee purchasing, distribution, and operational delivery of the per capita Budget health entitlement for M\u0101ori. Te Paati M\u0101ori would listen to the pleas of our people and address inequities in cancer funding, reduce the screening age for M\u0101ori, and ensure the life-saving cancer drugs are subsidised by Pharmac.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s books are much healthier than expected. Interest rates are low. Now is the time for transformational investment across social services. Our people expect nothing less. In this Budget, I\u2019m hoping to see a lot more than 0.3 percent of the total allocation targeting specific M\u0101ori disparities. We know how making positive impacts the wellbeing of M\u0101ori. We need a Budget that truly improves the quality of our lives for w\u2019\u0101nau through good jobs; high incomes; warm, affordable homes; and equitable access to health and education. This Government has an outright majority in this House; probably something we won\u2019t see again in my lifetime. They have the mandate to truly uplift the quality of life for our people if they have the will to, and they are running out of time to use it. We ask that this Government prioritise its focus on our people and that both sides of the House stop scrapping and focus on our people once and for all. Kia ora r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00226730054035984c2c881dcec8f3244689\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226730054035984c2c881dcec8f3244689\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227e7b9399449e456da3596959ba47622d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e7b9399449e456da3596959ba47622d\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s been an interesting debate this afternoon, or two debates, actually. One of them was an urgent debate around Air New Zealand, and now, of course, we\u2019re discussing the Budget Policy Statement. The two aren\u2019t very much related. There\u2019s just the mere fact that Air New Zealand is still flying, despite the doom and gloom on the other side of the House. Even as a comparative with Qantas, Air New Zealand continued to fly internationally, but Qantas was grounded and, for all intents and purposes, remains so, and that\u2019s something of a metaphor for New Zealand. Air New Zealand became a metaphor for this country\u2014it actually continued to fly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EJust to put in some context, again, if you sat and listened to some of the debate here, you\u2019d think things were going to hell in a handcart. I\u2019ve just been fortunate over the meal break to be at a function for Business New Zealand: Kirk Hope and his team, and a lot of small businesses in New Zealand, many of them from Auckland. I was privileged enough to be moving among those people with my ears open to hear what they\u2019re really saying, and just the mere fact that their function was able to take place\u2014the mere fact we were rubbing shoulders, the mere fact that we were able to cram into a room to hear the welcome from Business New Zealand\u2014that too was a metaphor for the success in the context against which we are now speaking and which we are going into this next Budget round. For those listening at home, what we are now debating is the scene-setting for the next Budget, for the money that will be distributed to ensure that New Zealand grows, continues to grow, and thrives in the coming period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also really important that we just take a moment and sit and all think where we were this time last year, in the surreal world we were entering where the world was closing down. New Zealand was closing down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EClosing down meant different things to different countries. In New Zealand, closing down came to a choice: we could either concentrate on our people\u2014as Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, the previous speaker, has been talking about\u2014or we could concentrate fully on the economy. Obviously, the two are not mutually exclusive, but in New Zealand, and, I would say people with a background like myself, who\u2019s been quite reasonably heavily involved in business, the concept of shutting down an economy for four or five weeks was a very scary thought. No one knew what we would end up doing, and so, as a result, most countries weren\u2019t as courageous as New Zealand was. Most countries didn\u2019t go to the end and work backwards. Everyone in New Zealand knew what the rules were. As COVID cases started to grow\u2014and it was interesting, just checking up\u2014we didn\u2019t quite get to a thousand cases. In mid-April, we were at just below a thousand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWe sat at home and we watched, and we wondered had we done the right thing, because our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, what she made a decision to do was to focus on the people, not on the economy. As a result\u2014and you\u2019ve heard people talk about it, and it\u2019s been mentioned oft-times in this House\u2014and as it turned out, the best economic approach was the health approach, the people-based approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAs we moved through and as we had all the terrible doom and gloom, and you could see in the Budget Policy Statement the projections that were being made of unemployment at around 10 or 12 percent, an economy diving\u2014nobody really knew. But what we did learn\u2014and this is what I hope the uptake from this will be when we are faced with anything similar in the future\u2014was that, actually, if you concentrate on the people, the rest will follow. I think many a time we hear he tangata, he tangata, he tangata\u2014it is people, it is people, it is people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo by doing that, what we saw\u2014and many times people have talked about economies. Have a look at the economies overseas that actually just focused on the economy. You know, we had a \u201CPresident of the Free World\u201D who denied it and said that it would go away and that the economy was more important, and look at that\u2014half a million. I haven\u2019t seen the latest figures. I believe they\u2019re up to nearly 600,000 dead now, with probably 400,000 or 500,000 of them unnecessarily, because that was a focus that just left people out of the whole decision-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe UK did the same thing. They caught up, but that was what they did. By focusing only on the economy and by not shutting down, they allowed it to seed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIreland was very interesting. People talk about Ireland. In Ireland, actually, it did seed. Ireland\u2019s actually got pretty terrible. I\u2019ve got a sister in Ireland who\u2019s been locked down for months, and they still continue to do so. They\u2019re only just looking at maybe opening the pubs. So these are the things that are happening around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo go back, and I\u2019d ask you to please look at this as we go into this next Budget, and you see what this Living Standards Framework is going to be about. It\u2019s a continuation. What we\u2019ll look at COVID as being is it will be a start. It\u2019s the way the world will refocus, if we allow it to refocus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow look, I don\u2019t blame the people across the floor. They\u2019re doing what they\u2019re here to do\u2014you know, to destroy and to pull down. They don\u2019t believe\u2014most of them\u2014what they\u2019re saying, but that\u2019s all right, I say to those at home, because they have to say it. What we have proven here\u2014and this is the lesson, I hope, that will come out of this COVID\u2014is that we should concentrate on the people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ELook at the building sector. Now, there\u2019s a very interesting stat out there when we\u2019re talking about housing. One of the most interesting stats around housing is we now have 21,000 more people involved in the construction industry than we did in 2018. Now, compare that with what happened during the GFC. There are many reasons why we have a housing issue, but one of the reasons is we simply don\u2019t have enough people to build them, because in 2008, in the GFC, the first people to get laid off were the people we need now: the tradies. If a business closed down, anyone who had an apprentice shut down. All the money that went into apprentices, it shut down, and so nothing ever happens in isolation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI know that when I left my last job, I said, \u201CDon\u2019t say that I\u2019ll be a success until I\u2019ve been gone for three or four years. If things are still doing well then, I will have been a success.\u201D, and that\u2019s the way we have to look at it. Nothing happens overnight. We live in this society these days where it\u2019s instant\u2014you know, just add water and stir. Unfortunately, that doesn\u2019t allow for the long-term strategy we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo I go back to this Budget now, and what this Budget is about is people. This is a continuation. It isn\u2019t new. This is a continuation of what we learn: if you concentrate on the people, then the rest will look after itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWe come to this House from various experiences, and we\u2019re challenged to sit down there and look at the formative experiences we\u2019ve had. I know that from when I spoke here in my maiden speech about what I learnt. Basically, I was a middle-class, white farm boy from the South Island, and I then went and worked as an undercover police officer in the North, with communities I had only ever seen through one set of eyes before\u2014I\u2019d seen them through a police officer\u2019s set of eyes. But it was what I was actually able to see, and do you know what? I came out of there seeing how much talent was in there. It was talent that if it was turned in the wrong direction, it meant they became very good drug-dealers, very good armed robbers, and good at all those things that they did. But, unfortunately, in the past, the only time that really captured that was, often, in the western desert, and places like that\u2014they were the people who came through it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut the talent that\u2019s out there, if we can capture that talent, and, yes, we won\u2019t capture it all\u2014we won\u2019t capture it all. There will be examples. But if we can get half the people that would otherwise have had lives that they weren\u2019t satisfied with and no one around them was satisfied with, then we will have succeeded. You know, you don\u2019t give up. There will be some, and we have to accept that there will be some, and there will always be a need for prisons\u2014you know, those who will stand up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn fact, it was quite interesting. One of the submitters we had when we were talking about the Budget Policy Statement, and I think Mr Webb might have mentioned it, was People Against Prisons Aotearoa\u2014you know, defund the police. Well, as I pointed out to that particular individual, who looked like he was probably a fairly safe, liberal, from the leafy suburb he came from. So what I pointed out to him on the only statistics he had there\u2014and this goes back to M\u0101ori victimisation\u2014was that the vast majority of people who are victims of crime are M\u0101ori. So do you ignore the victims by actually ensuring that\u2014yes\u2014what we\u2019ve got to make sure of is that as much as we stop M\u0101ori offending, we stop M\u0101ori victimisation? Nothing in isolation, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAgain, I go back to this. Just some examples: the Living Standards Framework. Look, one of the most important things that came out of this when we look at the success of the last year is unemployment. OK, at 4.9 percent, it\u2019s still too high. No one is standing from the chandeliers waving a flag, but it is a heck of a lot better than what we were looking at, which was up to 10 or 12 percent. So at least, with that 4.9 percent, there are 1.5 percent more people working than were projected to be working. That\u2019s 1.5 percent\u2014I don\u2019t know what numbers are on that, but that\u2019s 1.5 percent more people who are actually getting out of bed in the morning, or at night on whatever shift they\u2019re working, who are actually getting out there and doing something, and who are participating in our economy, participating in this world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, again, pointing back to this Budget and where we\u2019re going now, it is very heavily focused on the people. We will continue to train apprentices. We will continue to make sure that people can participate in our world, and that\u2019s what having a Living Standards Framework means. A thoroughly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4726371a68144048d805557663ed00b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4726371a68144048d805557663ed00b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002220ed40b2694a442badc6913cf1a8197b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220ed40b2694a442badc6913cf1a8197b\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, the Budget delivers a lot of money for the COVID response, and that is quite right, but the question I have to ask is: is the oversight and the efficacy of that money being monitored properly? Because it was an extraordinary morning at the Health Committee this morning. Three things came out today that I want to make mention of, because, sadly, in April 2021 we are still talking about issues at the border around testing that were identified in September last year and then again in February earlier this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThere is the sense of d\u00E9j\u00E0 vu in the building, because Mr O\u2019Connor talks about the strong border response of the Government, and to some extent that is correct, but there are critical failings in the system and they have been exposed today. The first point was what we heard this morning in relation to case B from the latest cluster at the Grand Millennium. It was a generally farcical select committee process this morning, but in and amongst the 25-minute lecture from Dr Bloomfield and Carolyn Tremain\u2014including the description of the end-to-end user experience of managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) and a description of the science of COVID-19. After we had the 25-minute lecture, we got a chance to ask some questions\u2014not many, but some\u2014and I asked the very simple question: case B was tested on 8 April; when was the last time he was tested?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba87ae840644e92abd981fde5ecf195\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: And what was the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd3f1e5a85a4e3f9e15d9297ca17e0e\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the answer was, firstly, obfuscation, and I asked again, and eventually we got the answer. The answer is November last year. So for six months, we\u2019ve had a border worker, a front-line border worker, working in MIQ who has not been tested. He\u2019s meant to be on a fortnightly cycle. So from November to April, there were meant to be fortnightly tests for COVID-19, but for six months that did not happen. It\u2019s worth noting in passing that if I hadn\u2019t asked the question and actually pressed the officials on that question, when were we going to find out about that? When were the officials going to tell us that salient fact? So that\u2019s the first point. Now, I think we can all agree that that is very concerning. We kept trying to ask further questions about it, but Labour members don\u2019t like the scrutiny, and so we were forced to end the session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point flows from the first, which is that 450 workers, it transpires, are not being tested regularly according to the law. And, again, in September last year, we had a big hullaballoo here and in the public domain around the testing regime. Members opposite will remember the shemozzle in August around the August cluster. We were assured by Ministers then that things were going to get better, and they put in place these mandatory testing orders. The rules are clear: if you are within the scope of the testing order, you have to get tested every two weeks or in some cases every week. What we learnt this evening, broken by Michael Morrah on Newshub, is that 450 people in the last two weeks have not complied with the testing order. And it\u2019s worse than that: the Government admits that 85 of those 450 may never have been tested\u2014may never have been tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo what we\u2019ve got is a situation where we\u2019ve got dozens of people working at the border who are in our front-line response who may never have been tested. At the very least, 450 of them haven\u2019t been tested properly in accordance with the rules laid down by the Government. Now, I think we can all agree that this is not good enough. So that\u2019s the second thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third point is it transpires\u2014again, from the committee this morning\u2014that not all the companies that work at the border are actually using the COVID border testing register. We know that there are dozens of companies and, therefore, hundreds of people that are not using the register that the Government has belatedly provided, and that is really important, and I\u2019ll come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo quite a lot flows from those three facts. The first question is: why have there not been any checks? Well, the Government says today, \u201CWell, he was lying.\u201D OK. The Prime Minister just asserted that. Chris Hipkins says there\u2019s going to be an inquiry. The Prime Minister has helpfully pre-judged that inquiry for the rest of us. So I hope it doesn\u2019t turn out to be like the situation with the KFC worker in February, when the Prime Minister essentially went on national television and vilified them, and it turns out she owes them an apology\u2014an apology, by the way, we are all still waiting for, as is the KFC worker. So the Prime Minister said that that person is lying, and Chris Hipkins had the temerity to say, \u201CWell, we can\u2019t have an urgent debate, because we might end up litigating what case B did or didn\u2019t do.\u201D Well, his own boss, the Prime Minister, was already on the record alleging that he had lied. So they say that he\u2019s lying. OK, we\u2019ll wait and see what the truth is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat obviates or at least obscures the major point, which is: how have we designed a system where someone can go six months without being checked? How is it that the system allows someone to get away with not being tested and not following the law? Then they said, \u201COh, we\u2019ll have an investigation.\u201D And by the way, it\u2019s worth nothing that we didn\u2019t find that out this morning. The officials didn\u2019t bother to tell us that there would be an investigation this morning. The media had to ask them that afterwards, and that\u2019s something that we\u2019ll be following up. Then we heard from the Prime Minister that there were private security companies involved. Well, yes, that\u2019s irrelevant. Of course there are private security companies involved at the border. Although, it\u2019s worth noting in passing that we were told last year that the Government was phasing out private security. It turns out that hasn\u2019t happened either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the first question. Then the second question is: what has happened to the register? Why is it not working? And, again, this is not a new issue. We talked about this in August; we talked about it again in February. Today, we discover, in response to questions, that the Government will make it mandatory from 27 April. Well, why are we only making something mandatory from basically the start of May when we\u2019ve been having these problems since September? How hard is it to design a system that records people\u2019s testing status and design a system where that is checked every fortnight or at least sufficiently enough to assure ourselves that people are being tested? Where are the checks more generally? Because if we make the testing mandatory, New Zealanders rightly expect that the Government will follow that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis is a very important point, because as members opposite have told us on so many occasions, ad nauseam, the border is our first and best defence against COVID slipping into the community. The reality is that it just takes one error. It just takes one mistake. This is not theory. We know this to be the case because we have seen it over the last few months and running back into last year. All it takes is one error or one slip and COVID is caught by someone and then it spreads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe reason we have the testing regime at the border is to make sure that people who are working on the front line, who are coming into contact with people from overseas who have COVID\u2014and we know that there are more and more people arriving in MIQ from places like India, for example, who have COVID. The reason we make them get tested is to make sure that they\u2019re working there without it, so that they don\u2019t spread it like case A did to case B, who spread it to case C. Now we\u2019re all hoping beyond hope that this cluster does not spread any further. So that\u2019s why we have the testing regime. But the quid pro quo of establishing the testing regime is that the Government goes and checks that people are being tested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just good enough for the Government to say it\u2019s incumbent on the employers. Firstly, half the employers at the border are the Government, and, secondly, don\u2019t punch down and blame security guards who can\u2019t fight back because they\u2019re in quarantine. Don\u2019t punch down and blame them and try and obscure the Government\u2019s own ineptitude and incompetence for setting up a regime that does not work. It\u2019s deeply unedifying from the Prime Minister. It\u2019s deeply dispiriting for the country, and the country deserves better than the shemozzle we have been dished up as revealed today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022 data-id=\u00228baeb1a0b7294034bc3c06501e5c82ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228baeb1a0b7294034bc3c06501e5c82ef\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK (Labour\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise as the final member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee (FEC) to speak on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). I do so knowing, not only from reflecting on the speakers who have gone before me but from my life time, this BPS reflects to me a Budget Policy Statement that is going to touch on all New Zealanders\u2014where the Government, in the face of COVID-19, had our backs. In a time where we needed a Government to invest in us, we had one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI reflect now on the speakers that have gone before me. Duncan Webb, chairman of the FEC\u2014he spoke of a world-leading wellbeing approach, where the world is looking at us as we measure making lives better. He also talked about Government agencies and how they\u2019re moving away from being in silos to a collaborative and cooperating approach to working together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EThen we heard from finance Minister Grant Robertson, when he referenced the IMF, Bloomberg, and the Lowy Institute ranking New Zealand\u2019s response to COVID-19 among the best in the world. This is due to our public health approach, at the same time as providing cash flow and confidence to New Zealand workers and businesses. We\u2019ve succeeded in keeping unemployment under 5 percent, compared to the OECD average, 6.4 percent. Austerity isn\u2019t our goal; recovery and rebuilding is. Now we must make sure that the balance we\u2019ve struck continues over the years. It is the strategy of a balanced approach, which our Minister of Finance spoke of this evening, that invests in our infrastructure; that supports the core Public Service, like health and education; that has a plan for making sure we address climate change; and that gives our young people a future\u2014an ambitious plan for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EMy colleague Barbara Edmonds, deputy chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, spoke of a focus on wellbeing objectives to lift M\u0101ori and Pacific incomes, skills, and opportunities. She spoke of going forward and investing in our people because we must keep moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EMy colleague Helen White spoke of innovation, vision, supporting workers and decent wages, leadership, and having the right values, because Labour is for all working people and for giving people a fair go. She spoke of our investment and a housing plan to get more families into affordable homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EGreg\u2014Greg, my other colleague\u2014spoke not of doom and gloom, as from\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afa00a5a85114b71b2c11b082d5ff425\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member needs to use the full name of other members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220412feb3a627490c94009adda2ddfa64\u0022\u003EANNA LORCK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker. Greg O\u2019Connor spoke not of the doom and gloom from the other side of the House but of the fortunate things we are doing and of Business New Zealand talking, just at the dinner break, about the success stories that we\u2019re hearing, where we\u2019re growing and thriving. We\u2019ve heard from business leaders applauding the wellbeing approach and moving from the public sector into the private sector, and we\u2019ve even heard from a developer in the room, who spoke about the fast-tracking of land for building and the success of those things. These are the things that we\u2019ve heard about in the dinner break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI now turn to what my colleague Helen White spoke about here in the House about housing. Housing is where I will talk, on the home front. Our district is leading on the housing front. Hastings suffered under the National Government. I know that for years publicly owned State houses were left to rot and ruin in Hastings. Today, under the Labour Government\u2014land that was going to be sold off and sold down\u2014we now have 44 public homes built, for warm, affordable homes for families. Hastings is an example where this Government is working with the regions. It is an example where, together with local council, iwi, local industry, and trades\u2014I\u2019d like to report\u2014534 building consents were issued in 2020. That is the highest level of homes built in the history of Hastings\u2014the previous high: back in 2007. This includes Government investment in public housing, with 180 public houses being built over 2021, with purchasing intentions for a further 288 homes. Hastings has also been enabled to fast track much needed housing on council land in Flaxmere, where, thanks to the Government, the council received, in the face of a critical housing shortage, $11.5 million to go towards building the water and roading infrastructure to support affordable quality housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI now turn to the \u201CFuture of Work\u201D as part of the Budget Policy Statement, and I talk about the investment that is being made in enabling all New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses to benefit from new technology and lift productivity and wages through innovation and support into employment for those most affected by COVID-19, including women and young people. I\u2019d like to talk now about the investment that is being made into the human capital\u2014our people; our skills. This is where we are making a real difference in growing the trade skills we need to grow business and build houses in our region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EI would like to also highlight that, on the weekend, I had the privilege\u2014an absolute privilege\u2014of meeting four talented building apprentices from local companies at Hawke\u2019s Bay Homes to understand this. I heard from Martin E, who told me that before he was building as an apprentice, he was making sushi, and now, thanks to Hawke\u2019s Bay Homes and the Government\u2019s free vocational training and apprenticeship scheme, he\u2019s becoming a builder with a great career ahead. Over 100,000 Kiwis have now signed up for this scheme, and across New Zealand\u2014since we introduced it in July last year as part of our response to COVID-19\u2014this newly skilled workforce will play a crucial role as we invest in infrastructure projects, continue our economic recovery, and build New Zealand back better. I\u2019d like to wish good luck to Trent, one of the four young building apprentices I met in the weekend who are now off to represent Hawke\u2019s Bay at the nationals in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EOn top of this, at our local Eastern Institute of Technology we have over 1,250 learners enrolled in this trades training and apprenticeships scheme eligible for programmes. Therefore, they are having their fees paid, and this is the equivalent of approximately $3 million invested in the young people of Hawke\u2019s Bay thanks to this Government. This demand is an increase from previous years, and it really shows how we are working with people on the ground in the regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b53c8fa-5ba4-4150-98be-dd23e49cf0bb\u0022\u003EWe are a Government that invests in people. We invest in jobs. We\u2019re supporting and backing business right here and growing the economy. We will keep going, and we will never stop. This is the type of thing that you are seeing from this Government, and it\u2019s with this type of investment, unlike what we have heard is nothing but negative naysaying from the other side of the House. I have never, ever heard so much disappointment. Who is really speaking to business? Who is absolutely doing this country proud? Who is making a difference? Who has touched the lives of New Zealanders this year, in the face of COVID-19? It\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00225160c25571314c669fbd4b757ae77be5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225160c25571314c669fbd4b757ae77be5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired. The question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye; to the contrary, No. The Ayes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d101de899c074c14b482c68444149981\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00226e1f893414604904bbc459773c9af51b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e1f893414604904bbc459773c9af51b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002281a72db790744d309f1601abdad23eff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281a72db790744d309f1601abdad23eff\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E A point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder if the Speaker could just advise what the motion is so that we can consider it. I wasn\u2019t aware that we actually had a motion on this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd492c30c0a14d39946a3dcbcaaccd35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd492c30c0a14d39946a3dcbcaaccd35\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, all right. The question at the beginning of the debate was moved by Dr Duncan Webb, and he moved that the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement. After that speaker, I was in the Chair, and I stated that the question is that the motion be agreed to. And now, the motion is in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad81589a9a1e4fbbb58b01d4f5bf803c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad81589a9a1e4fbbb58b01d4f5bf803c\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Just speaking to that. Those words are used and there are times when a vote isn\u2019t taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220f3c9920798e4621ba75e25e15625571\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the House take note of the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Budget Policy Statement 2021.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 110\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; New Zealand National 33; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c58667bcb454c2b8896b21700f62bb5\u0022\u003EProtection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228653a68f418a4b31b492d81555edd5ff\u0022\u003EProtection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1d0a593e38e4c20842d94ca5d38b794\u0022\u003EConsideration of the Report of the Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8f57832c0094b9a943c8d584cb8c148\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8f57832c0094b9a943c8d584cb8c148\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour\u2014Hutt South):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of the report of the Justice Committee on the Protection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to take the first call on this particular debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3eeac651be4740a45f5a0a10e3ed2b\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Is this a second reading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3277dd82df4a55b0aebcc9f6d74020\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022202864f4890e403fb9cc9613ebd0b94f\u0022\u003EGINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s right that the member points it out that this is a somewhat unusual situation, because as this bill has already had a second reading\u2014the debate today is technically the consideration of the select committee report, rather than a second reading as such.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo as members will remember, this was initially a member\u2019s bill in the name of Darroch Ball, which was voted on in support by National and New Zealand First, and I think ACT as well at the last Parliament, and that was then referred to the Justice Committee. That bill has subsequently been taken under the name of Mark Mitchell, and there have been some proposed changes suggested at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to speak on behalf of the Labour members and as chair of the Justice Committee. First of all, I think it\u2019s important to state to this House that every assault on a first responder or corrections officer is unacceptable. We support measures that will actually work in order to keep them safe in these important roles that they provide for our communities. We know, though, the way that this bill has been drafted is seriously flawed. In particular, we would like to point to the case in point of mandatory minimum sentences. And it\u2019s good to have agreement by those members opposite who also agree that mandatory minimum sentences don\u2019t work for a number of reasons. And members from the National Party spoke at length at select committee as to why they did not support mandatory minimum sentences\u2014Dr Smith, I remember, was one proponent in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what was suggested by those National members in committee was to remove the provision in this bill that suggested that there should be a mandatory minimum sentence. The problem this struck was it didn\u2019t leave much of the bill behind. So there were some proposed changes, but the majority of the committee felt that there was not really much left to the bill. So of the changes proposed, there was not enough left for it to carry forward, and that is why Government members did not agree to those proposed changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important to note that as the Justice Committee identified, our men and women in uniform are already provided for and given additional protection through sentencing law. And I\u2019ll give credit to those members opposite, because I do believe, if I read my books right, that that change was actually passed under a National Government, and it currently lists assaulting a first responder or prison officer as an aggravating factor in sentencing. And so that already exists in law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the question is: what is this bill actually attempting to achieve? As the law currently stands, as stated, committing an offence against a police, prison officer, and emergency health or fire service personnel at emergency scenes is already an aggravating factor in section 9 of the Sentencing Act. So that means in current law the punishment for assaulting a prison officer or first responder in that instance would already be more severe than an assault in the same circumstances against any other member of the public. And I know that there were some issues raised about that in itself at select committee in submissions. Some of the personal ones I received as well were instances such as those in a convenience store or a 24-hour liquor store who are also put into great harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis bill therefore proposes to introduce a new, narrower offence\u2014one for a kind of assault on first responders and prison officers when there are already ways the law can deal with a whole range of potential offending against these important people who protect our community. The established framework of an aggravating factor in the Sentencing Act also is a better way of addressing this issue, and it\u2019s good that on that point there was agreement across the House\u2014there was agreement that imposing that a judge must have a sentence would not work in that particular instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe other problem that Government members had had, particularly with what was initially proposed in this bill, was that the bill puts out of step the existing hierarchy of offending, and that is really problematic in terms of making sure there\u2019s a weighting to the seriousness of offences in how they are, I guess, punished or provided for in the courts. So currently sections 188 and 189 of the Crimes Act are carefully formulated to provide a hierarchy of offending in cases of wounding or injuring people to take into account the offender\u2019s intent, how much harm they intended to cause, and how much harm they actually did cause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll provide an example to illustrate the point I\u2019m trying to make. For example, an offender who intended to cause someone grievous bodily harm and injured them would then be charged with injuring with intent under section 189(1), which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. Had the injury been caused by reckless behaviour or with intent to injure rather than grievously injure, however, they would be charged with injuring with intent under 189(2), which carries a maximum sentence of just five years in prison to reflect the lesser harm meant to be caused. However\u2014and I\u2019m sorry this is complicated, but once it\u2019s unpacked, hopefully it\u2019ll be clear\u2014had the act caused grievous bodily harm rather than merely injury, they would be charged with wounding with intent under section 188(1), which carries a maximum sentence of 14 years\u2019 imprisonment to reflect that they intended more harm to be caused to the victim.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo this bill inserts a new offence into the Crimes Act, which is wildly, I guess, in lay terms, out of whack with that hierarchy that I have just outlaid. It disproportionately weights offending, so it causes a problem in the wider scheme of how we are weighing up offending. This bill inserts into the Crimes Act\u2014and it would lead to, I guess, bizarre sentencing outcomes. Firstly, the new offence makes no distinction between recklessly causing injury and deliberately causing an injury\u2014the maximum minimum mandatory sentences are exactly the same. So this could lead to quite strange scenarios where someone who recklessly injured a first responder could be imprisoned for 10 years\u2014double the sentence for recklessly injuring anyone else, and massively out of step with the current sentencing and clearly unjust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESecondly, the new offence has no regard to the level of injury caused, which could lead to even more bizarre outcomes. For example, if someone had injured a police officer with an intent, they could face a maximum minimum penalty of 10 years. If they caused grievous bodily harm to a police officer with intent, which is worse, they\u2019ll be charged with the extent of wounding with intent, which carries seven years. So what has been done\u2014the members opposite who are complaining about what they\u2019ve agreed to have agreed that mandatory minimum sentences don\u2019t work, yet they\u2019ve come up with no viable alternative\u2014no viable alternative. And so, in order to address the problems that were initially raised, this is not able to be completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo when we heard the submissions from those people who came forward before the committee\u2014we received 74 in total. And one of the ones that were of particular interest is that they saw the reoccurring theme that we often get from the National Party that we just want to use increased penalties as a deterrent. This comes time and time again, and it\u2019s deep in the National psychology, that if you increase a penalty that will somehow change the way people think and how they behave. And we know for a fact that that\u2019s flawed ideology\u2014it\u2019s a deeply flawed ideology. So those who oppose the bill\u2014and there were a fair few of them\u2014generally regarded it as too punitive. They questioned whether the desired effect\u2014which was agreed that we want to reduce the assaults on first responders\u2014would be done by imposing a mandatory minimum sentence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo the problem we have with this bill is that we agree with the intent of keeping our first responders and respecting them and supporting them, we do that wholeheartedly, but we question the fact that this bill is fundamentally flawed. There is now no core crux of what this bill was going to deliver, which we disagreed with, which was a mandatory minimum sentence. Now that that\u2019s gone there\u2019s nothing left. So therefore, the Government members and the members of the Justice Committee will not be supporting this bill to proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00229e862beef7134c12bf2985502a9998b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e862beef7134c12bf2985502a9998b4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002277e5e2a38a544cf2882b6c0b5b7e70d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277e5e2a38a544cf2882b6c0b5b7e70d6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to take a call on this Protection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill and the second report of the Justice Committee. I\u2019ll address some of the points that were raised by the chair of the committee, Ginny Andersen, but, firstly, I just want to acknowledge Darroch Ball. Darroch Ball, of course, was a member of Parliament with the New Zealand First Party and part of the coalition that was formed between Labour and the Green Party in the last Government. Although Darroch and I sparred often across the House, particularly on justice bills, when I held the justice portfolio, I never for one minute doubted his commitment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227db93ae8a641460490644d9df205bf70\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: You call that sparring?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c440f840dcf404c9e9d95fae48e0db1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014his genuine commitment, to making New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c732a098264cb88d3d51ed99a9c4ca\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Open hatred\u2014come on. Open hatred.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f5644e7c8bd415197a003e1503d8913\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and his community safer. When I hear the barracking coming from Greg O\u2019Connor against one of his own colleagues that now is no longer in this House, it just probably reminds him and it could be a reminder to him that maybe they made the wrong decision in terms of who they went into coalition Government with, because Darroch has received no support from his former colleagues at all with either of his two bills that have come into this House. So I want to acknowledge him, and I want to acknowledge the policy intent that he always has, which is, fundamentally, to make New Zealand a safer place, and the community a safer place, and just acknowledge the fact that he has now taken up a deputy chief executive role with the Sensible Sentencing Trust and Jess McVicar, who in my view do tremendous work around advocacy for victims and their families and continue to work in that justice space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t understand the argument that the chair of the committee was trying to put up around disrupting the hierarchy of offending, because, ultimately, in our criminal justice system, the people that decide what charges to lay are the police. The police will do the investigation. The police will look at the ingredients that go towards the type of offending and the offence that\u2019s been committed, and they\u2019ll take all those issues into account before they make a very clinical decision around what charges will actually be laid and what charges are most appropriate and what charges they feel will have the most success or are most appropriate when they go into our court system. So I think that the argument around disrupting the hierarchy of offending is a moot one and doesn\u2019t have any standing at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge my colleagues who have done all the work on this bill: the Hon Simon Bridges, Simeon Brown, and the Hon Nick Smith, who sit on the Justice Committee. Around mandatory sentencing, we actually feel that there is a place for that at times, but the reason why we compromised on this\u2014and we had a lot of discussion on this side of the House. It went back to the caucus. The reason why we made a compromise around mandatory sentencing is because we were committed and trying to do the best that we could in passing a bill that we think sends a very positive message from this, our House of Representatives, back to our corrections officers, our first responders, our nurses and emergency department (ED) staff, in saying that we recognise and we support you. Because the Labour Party and the members of the committee took a very strong stance against mandatory sentencing, we felt that if we moved on that, we made a compromise, and instead we put forward and made some changes around cumulative sentences, then, actually, it would take away the barrier, it would take away the argument from them around why they couldn\u2019t support the bill, and they\u2019d come in behind the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut as you\u2019ve heard with the chair\u2019s speech tonight in the House, they still haven\u2019t done that. Instead of getting on their feet and saying, \u201CYes, the mandatory sentencing now has gone, so, actually, it\u2019s a bill now that we could support.\u201D, they\u2019ve got up and said, \u201CNo, the mandatory sentencing now has gone, so now we don\u2019t see that there\u2019s any value in the bill.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0f4c010fc784c1da141394564c7f787\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a shocker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b49f22a03324edabc609141369eaaa4\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: Shocker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229859eb6c01b240988098fb56992fafb6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019ll tell you why that\u2019s a shocker\u2014I\u2019ll tell you why it\u2019s a shocker. Because she was right: as of today, an assault on a first responder or prison officer is actually treated as an aggravating factor at sentencing. But this bill goes a lot further. This bill actually makes it an offence to assault a first responder or a corrections officer. That is a big change. That is a significant change, this House saying, \u201CYes, it\u2019s good to have it as an aggravating factor\u2014there\u2019s no doubt about that. We\u2019re going to take a step further. We\u2019re actually going to make it an offence now, something that someone can be charged with.\u201D I just find it very, very puzzling, when I hear my colleague and friend Simeon Brown on his feet just about every day in his role as our police spokesperson and corrections spokesperson, highlighting the disturbing increase of assaults on our police, on our corrections officers. I\u2019ll tell you what: it\u2019s not always immediately visible, and it is actually hidden away, to a certain extent. It\u2019s probably even under-reported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EBut you know what, I do want to talk about our nurses and doctors and the medical staff that work in our emergency departments, because if you go and visit an ED on probably, sadly, now just about any day of the week, but certainly on a Friday or Saturday night, you\u2019ll see them dealing with people that are under the influence of drugs. You\u2019ll see them, the people that have been involved in assaults and domestic violence, that have often injured themselves\u2014they end up in the ED. In my own time as a front-line police officer, I grew to have a very deep respect and admiration for them and the way that they were continuing to try and help and treat and do the best for someone that often was hurling verbal abuse at them, was assaulting them, whether they be minor or whether they were serious and major assaults. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EActually, this bill was sending a really positive message to them from this Parliament. It was saying that we recognise what you do for us. We recognise what you have to put up with, what you have to deal with. When most of us leave home to go to work, we like to think that we\u2019re going to go to a safe environment, an environment where we feel safe. Actually, a lot of these nurses, they don\u2019t. They leave home, when they\u2019re working on the ED\u2014and even some of them working in the wards now, sadly, because even if you go to North Shore Hospital, you\u2019ll see a very strong gang presence in a lot of those wards. They aren\u2019t always safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EActually, us representatives\u2014and this puzzles me every single time, when Labour take a position against these types of bills, that we have an opportunity as representatives of this House to say that we ask those corrections officers to go out there and do a job for us as a country. We ask those police officers to work at night to keep our communities safe. We need those ED nurses and doctors and medical staff in there, caring for and looking after people when they come through. Even our fire and emergency personnel, the volunteers in my own electorate\u2014often they\u2019re faced with the same situation: they\u2019re put in situations where they\u2019re dealing with aggressive, violent, drunk, and drugged individuals. The one thing that we could have done as a Parliament\u2014the opportunity that we were given by Darroch Ball with this bill\u2014was to turn our minds to it, was to put it into the select committee process, was to make some changes to it. The changes have been made\u2014the changes, actually, that the Labour Party and the Labour Government asked to be made. They\u2019ve been made. There is no excuse now not to support this bill. You know that they\u2019re waffling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f560dedf9c324bbca0db9540f078f716\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Why aren\u2019t they supporting it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd6922b5d3c3484db4eb0cbdcdf17ef1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: They aren\u2019t supporting it because it\u2019s disrupting the hierarchy of offending, which\u2014I don\u2019t know if anyone back home even knows what that means. I\u2019ve got no idea how that applies to this bill. Because I\u2019ll go right back to the start. In terms of disrupting the hierarchy of offending, I\u2019ll tell you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f728937591c4e25ac7caeb95d81b7cf\u0022\u003EHon Simon Bridges\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s the hierarchy of the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288e8e07ccaba4bca98ac66f8e865f5f1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s very true. They\u2019ve obviously been told what they\u2019re going to do with it. The reality of it is this: when the charges are laid, the police decide what the appropriate charge is\u2014not the judges, not us as parliamentarians or legislators. It\u2019s the police that decide what charge is going to be applied. So to stand in this House\u2014and I feel sorry for the other Labour speakers that are going to stand and respond to this, because they\u2019ve got their speaking notes and they\u2019re going to get up and say the same thing. They\u2019re going to say, \u201COh yes, we didn\u2019t like the mandatory part of the bill.\u201D We\u2019ve taken that out. Simeon\u2019s put a very good Supplementary Order Paper in around cumulative sentencing, which we think goes a long way to actually sending that very positive message out there to our first responders. But they\u2019re going to get up and they\u2019re going to say, \u201CThe mandatory piece has been taken out, but, actually, now there\u2019s no substance to the bill.\u201D Yes, it\u2019s true. We are creating an offence, and, actually, that\u2019s substantive. That\u2019s important\u2014that is important. But they\u2019re going to say it\u2019s disrupting the hierarchy of offending. Define that for this House and explain it to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00221481853daff64d34af24dff01b574a22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221481853daff64d34af24dff01b574a22\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022671d50618a104f6d87bb38231dc2754a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022671d50618a104f6d87bb38231dc2754a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I stand not as a member of the Justice Committee but as a huge fan of first responders, and also as a lawyer with high regard for jurisprudence and the integrity\u2014and also as somebody who has experienced firsthand the impacts of extremely violent crime, and yet I refuse to take the stance of lock them up and throw away the key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI recently attended the St John Ambulance awards with my colleague Dr David Clark from the Dunedin electorate, also with the Mayor of Dunedin, Aaron Hawkins, and myself\u2014it showed the regard that we have for St John as an organisation. We were watching people receive awards for five years, for 10 years, for up to 45 years of service, and I have stood in this House to tautoko them and to advocate for more funding for the incredible work that they do. For first responders, the work they do is not just work; it is a vocation, and we leave our lives in their hands. I have the highest respect for them, and that is for all first responders\u2014the police, fire, prison officers, and the ambulance. But I do take offence to the minimum sentence of six months\u2019 imprisonment. It is seductive, simplistic, us-and-them politics, it is populist, and what it does is it seeks to differentiate between categories of people. It doesn\u2019t address why these assaults happen and, importantly, it won\u2019t prevent them happening in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI have experienced the fallout from very violent crime. I shared a very personal story of my own on Facebook last night, and I want to thank all the people who have given me their support for that. As I was leaving the building, I saw a van with the words \u201CGrouse Lighting\u201D on it, and it brought to mind an event that I haven\u2019t thought of for quite a while. My ex-boyfriend, Paul Anderson, was violently stabbed to death by the killer Graeme Burton. Graeme Burton was locked up, and when he was out on parole, within months he went out and he killed again. As much as the hurt is there for the family of the other person that Graeme Burton killed, and for all of the victims of Graeme Burton, I know firsthand that locking him away and throwing away the key with no rehabilitation, and creating us-and-them categories through our corrections and through imprisonment and our justice system, simply does not work. If it did work, I would support this motion, but it doesn\u2019t work and I won\u2019t go over the reasons why we believe it doesn\u2019t\u2014it\u2019s already been traversed very capably by my colleague, Ginny Andersen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhat I will do is just really support the police, tell them what we have done, to reassure them that we are supporting them, that we are supporting first responders, and there are many things. We have a strong record in supporting them, we\u2019ve invested $450 million into the police since we came into office. As a result, the total workforce for the police is the largest it has ever been, it has surpassed 14,000 officers. We\u2019ve already delivered on our commitments of 1,800 new police officers, and we are well on our way to meet our growth target of 1,800 over five years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ELast year, the police launched the Frontline Safety Improvement Programme, and that has six work streams to boost safety. These are training, valuing front-line responders and their wh\u0101nau, equipment and capability, command and control framework response models, and operational safety systems. May I also, at this point, commend the St John Ambulance for resisting pressure to not introduce double-crewing. Double-crewing was going to be an expensive option, but they chose to do it because it is the right thing to do for their workers, around worker safety but also around first response incidents, so tautoko to them. The programme that the police have launched with front-line skills will give 1,200 constables with at least two years\u2019 experience an extra week of training this year, and it will aim to improve their tactical and operational skills. They have also had other work being delivered, including safety reminder videos, increased tactical training at the recruit level, and greater scenario-based cognitive training and de-escalation techniques.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EDe-escalation is what we must be looking to for all of these incidents involving first responders. I know that I have family members who have been assaulted in the course of their work as medics, as doctors, and as nurses. They do not agree with this offence, because of the way it creates an us-and-them scenario. Ginny Andersen has pointed out the hierarchy of aggravated factors in offending, and she has also pointed out the fact that aggravation can be taken into account in sentencing. We don\u2019t want to become a society that just slaps mandated sentences on to groups of people because we think that\u2019s an easy sticking plaster for the conditions that create these situations in the first place. The conditions that lead to offending are complex, they involve lots of whys, they involve lots of equity issues, and there is a mechanism for the judges to look at all of those facts and take all of those facts into accounts when sentencing. That is the correct approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen we start to create categories of offences like this, even with the changes around cumulative sentencing that have been proposed by National members, it doesn\u2019t allow the judiciary to do its job in terms of taking into account the full set of circumstances in that particular case. It forces us to lump groups of offending together, and to start to make assumptions about members of society that fit populist politics and that make for easy solutions. There are no easy solutions when it comes to criminal justice. They are complex situations that we need to look at, both in terms of how we respond with the criminal justice system but also the preventative measures that stop people from doing assaults in the first place and getting themselves into those situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo as tempting as it could be for people to think that this is a nod to our first responders, this proposed legislation, it really isn\u2019t. It is a way for the Opposition to continue to create a divisive society, a society that creates gangs of us and them, they even use the word \u201Cgangs\u201D\u2014the last speaker did in his presentation\u2014and it doesn\u2019t lead to inclusion, it doesn\u2019t lead to social cohesion. We know that societies that are not inclusive ultimately end up with more crime, less security, less productivity. We, in the Labour Party, are about an inclusive society. When we look at people, we look at them as individuals with equal rights, and we then look at their behaviours. We don\u2019t lump them into categories, which is what the Opposition is trying to do. The fact that the Sensible Sentencing Trust has earned the participation of the member that previously supported this bill makes me even more secure in the fact that I would not want to support it. The Sensible Sentencing Trust themselves take a very punitive approach to the justice system. So, for these reasons, we cannot support a bill that is divisive, that plays into populist politics, that tries to create an us-and-them mentality, that doesn\u2019t have merit, that has not been able to be corrected despite two processes through the select committee, and that when you take out the mandatory sentencing element of it, really, doesn\u2019t have anything left to offer this House. I cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022 data-id=\u00228e30c6e25cfd462f86ac94f095252589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e30c6e25cfd462f86ac94f095252589\u0022\u003EHon SIMON BRIDGES (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s good to take a call on this bill. I just want to start firstly, though, by acknowledging that the parliamentary cricket team played a game of cricket in Hamilton, I think it was. And I just want to acknowledge the member for Hamilton West over there. I wasn\u2019t on the field, I wasn\u2019t there, but I understand that he was instrumental in the team winning in the weekend\u2014and I just wanted to say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI do want to talk about this bill, though. It is an interesting bill. I want to start by saying that the member for Taieri, I think it is, gave possibly the most namby-pamby, soft-on-crime speech I\u2019ve heard in a decade. She fundamentally said, \u201CNo, look, if someone injures an ambulance officer, we actually just need to kind of understand them and be nice to them and that is somehow going to solve it.\u201D Look, I\u2019m all for rehabilitation and reintegration, but that kind of namby-pamby, soft-on-crime approach does not work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EWe support this bill with amendments, Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) which we would, at the committee of the whole House, put forward to make this, I think, a good bill\u2014and that is our proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI just want to make four or five points in the eight or nine minutes I\u2019ve got. The first is that it is\u2014despite the namby-pamby, soft-on-crime speech that we\u2019ve heard on the other side of the House\u2014right to create an offence for injury of first responders and prison officers. I think the best point the other side could make is, \u201CWell, actually, it\u2019s already an aggravating factor at sentencing.\u201D So if you are sentenced for assault, for assault with intent to injure, for assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, or what have you, well, in those instances that it was a first responder would be an aggravating factor at sentencing\u2014and it might be an uplift, a relatively small one at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EBut I want to say this to the other side as to why this offence is not only desirable, actually it is necessary: because signalling in criminal law really matters. We have another bill before the Justice Committee in relation to insane offenders\u2014that is the legal terminology\u2014who are not guilty by reason of insanity. Well, what we heard from, I think, in the end, actually, hundreds of submitters in that case, was that that nomenclature, that naming of the verdict in that: well, it was offensive to them. It was, effectively a revictimisation for them\u2014not guilty by reason of insanity\u2014and they want a name change. The signalling matters, and it matters here, as well, because first responders and prison officers deserve\u2014for their loyal, hard service in our country\u2014formal recognition by Parliament of that critical public service. Yes, we can thank them, but, actually, we should do better than that; we should try and help keep them safe with deterrent sentences in the courts. We have that opportunity to do that in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI would also say, look, as an element of an offence\u2014which we are doing: we are creating an offence here where it is an element of the offence that it is a first responder or a prison officer; in fact, it is wider than that, but I\u2019ll come to that point\u2014it will mean that offenders in these situations, and I make no apology for this to the soft-on-crime people on the other side of this House, do receive higher, more condign, deterrent sentences. And that is actually right because what they are doing is wrong. We need to see harder sentences in this area because it is getting harder and harder, worse and worse, for first responders\u2014whether they be prison officers, policemen and policewomen, you name it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIf you don\u2019t think I\u2019m right, Simeon Brown told me a remarkable series of facts that he has worked out through his work as a member of Parliament: 92 percent; there has been an increase of 92 percent of prisoner assaults on corrections officers in the last three years. Right? In the last three years, it has gone up 92 percent. And those requiring medical treatment in our prisons\u2014that is the prison officers who have been assaulted\u2014it is not as high as the 93 percent; it is up 33 percent, and all the while, Stuart Nash, the prison population has dropped 15 percent. So the numbers have dropped, but the assaults and the harm on officers is worse. Who would want to be a corrections officer in this country today? And, actually, the union is making that point clear with their vote of no confidence in the Minister of Corrections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not the point of this bill. But I simply make the point: actually, it is right to have this offence; the symbolism of it matters; these are people, great New Zealanders working hard for our country; it is dangerous; it is getting worse for them on their ground, as I\u2019ve demonstrated, and we need this offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make is that we support extending cover to a wider group of public services. And if we have the opportunity, we\u2019ll have an SOP that does that so that it is not just first responders of a certain kind, a strict kind, and prison officers; we would extend this to police officers, to general practitioners, and the hospital staff that work in critical Public Service roles. I know from long experience that for so many of these people, it is dangerous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EI remember a jury trial in Pukehina, I think it was, it was a murder trial, the ambulance officers were the first people on the scene, they turned up, there was a bit of a crowd, it had been a party, someone had been stabbed to death. As the ambulance officers got out to try and assist, they were spat at and kicked and punched. And by the way, that is not uncommon. That is happening as a matter of course around New Zealand\u2014I\u2019m not exaggerating to say\u2014every single day. First responders are treated like crap by scumbags in the country, when they are trying to save people\u2019s lives and do the right things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003ESo I say\u2014quite clearly, actually\u2014we should extend coverage in this bill. That is the right thing to do here. We have that opportunity if this bill were to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EThirdly, it was New Zealand First and Darroch Ball, as we\u2019ve heard, who proposed a mandatory minimum sentence. We don\u2019t support that. Most of National are against that in principal, full stop. I\u2019d say judges, if I can put it this way, are squiffy, as a general rule of thumb when it comes to mandatory minimums. They think that and say that it gets in the way of their discretion when it comes to sentencing. I do just want to say this: I think, on occasion, mandatory minimum prison sentences are appropriate. I think that constitutionally it is entirely within Parliament\u2019s remit to pass them on occasion. Sentencing and what prisoners receive in court is constitutionally the right of Parliament, not just the courts. And if I can name-drop, for a second, at Oxford, the foremost expert in the area of sentencing around the common law world, Professor Andrew Ashworth was quite clear on that. I do think there are occasions\u2014not in this bill\u2014where mandatory minimums are the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EFinally, we do support cumulative sentencing for this new offence. As I say, the good New Zealanders who work so hard in this area in dangerous, difficult jobs, seeing people at their worst, turning up to crimes, in our emergency departments, in our prisons with the most dangerous New Zealanders\u2014sadly there are, and, sadly, these days, a lot of Aussies, as well\u2014they deserve deterrent sentences in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022badb0a39-849c-462a-b32f-77fc017c9fc2\u0022\u003EIn the last minute or so, I do want to say\u2014I haven\u2019t prepared this; listening to the speeches of the Labour Party members, I feel somewhat obliged to do it\u2014why on earth would the Labour Party vote against this bill? Well, is it because they don\u2019t value first responders? Is that why they do it? They sneer on the other side, but, actually, when they\u2019ve got a good bill before them that would help protect first responders, result in more deterrent sentences, I just wonder. I think the ultimate reason is this: the Labour Party of New Zealand is soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime. They actually think, like the member for Taieri, that if they sort of hug a hoodie, if they go along and have hui with patched gang members, that somehow is going to make things better. Well, we know that rehabilitation, reintegration, and setting people up in the prison system for success on the way out is the right thing to do. But you also have to sentence them and make sure they realise\u2014and are punished for what are terrible crimes that make Kiwis less safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1dfd3933b2c465e80c847195f86cc90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1dfd3933b2c465e80c847195f86cc90\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak, unfortunately, against this bill. As a member of the Justice Committee, I can\u2019t support this. I want to start by saying I have been a prosecutor. I have spent my life working to improve the efficacy of the criminal justice system, and particularly to make it more possible for the police to bring difficult sex offence cases through the court successfully. But I can\u2019t support this bill. I want to start by taking a moment to just think about the range of services that our first responders do give us. Recently in Whang\u0101rei, in our office Kelvin Davis and I were just starting our first meetings when the tsunami warning sirens started, and we all had to evacuate. And out along the street were our police, out in our communities were our voluntary fire brigades, were our civil defence emergency responders, our hospitals geared up. The response was instantaneous and it was, frankly, magnificent. I would particularly like to call out the wonderful services that were done by our volunteer fire brigades in Onerahi and in Waip\u016B who not only helped to evacuate many, many schoolchildren, but then fired up the barbie and actually cooked the sausages donated by local businesses that made it possible for the teachers and the early childhood educators to keep those many, many little kids calm and happy. Our first responders do an extraordinary job. We all know it. We all honour them for it. But this is not the way we protect them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI am actually really disappointed because it seems to me that my first few months in the House have involved a series of bills coming from National where they are, essentially, the criminal justice equivalent of a sugar hit. They are empty calories of a response. We are talking about bills that again and again and again propose a solution in search of a problem when the criminal justice system already provides a more than adequate response to the problem. They are sound and fury signifying nothing, and I, frankly, find it difficult that the House is asked to spend its time on things that don\u2019t need fixing, because we already have a solution. There is so much more to be done in the criminal justice sphere, and we are busy talking about creating an offence where, as a prosecutor I know perfectly well, the courts are already capable of taking into account this offence and this behaviour and making proper judgments as to how to weight it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo I want to turn first to the question of just what is already out there. What is it that makes me say we just don\u2019t need a separate offence? And I want to take you to section 9 of the Sentencing Act, because it is section 9(fa) that states that if the victim is a constable or a police officer acting in the course of their duty, that is an aggravating feature. And then section 9(fb) states that if the victim was an emergency health worker or fire service worker acting in the course of their duty that is also an aggravating feature. We are already capable of dealing with this problem on behalf of those vital members of our society, our first responders. And what\u2019s more, the point of having them as aggravating features rather than as a discrete offence\u2014and particularly this offence, but I will come to that. The point of having this as an aggravating feature means that we actually are able to cover the full gamut. So not just injuring with intent to injure. Why is it not possible and why is it not relevant to the member opposite, for example, that a constable is assaulted in the course of his duty or her duty? Why is it not relevant to the member opposite that a constable is threatened with grievous bodily harm or even a threat to kill? These things are not covered. Apparently the only thing that matters is injuring with intent to injure. The beauty of treating it as an aggravating feature is that it gives the judge that flexibility. Now, I will come back to that point of flexibility so I would like you to hold on to that thought, because I really take issue with Mr Bridges for what he said earlier. Flexibility in judging is one of the beauties of our system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo the point is we already have the ability to take cognisance of the fact that the victim is a first responder delivering vital service to our society. We already have the ability to do it in a far wider range of circumstances than the current bill under discussion would ever allow us to do it. It seems to me that when we have so much to do for our poor country, so many things to clean up and to fix, here we are essentially making work. This is empty calories. It may make people feel good. It may provide them with this idea of\u2014I think Mr Bridges called it a signifier. He called it \u201Csignalling\u201D. It signals, unfortunately, nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI have never met a police officer in the course of my reasonably lengthy career in criminal justice who asked for a separate offence of attacking an officer. I have never met a nurse or a doctor who asked for that sort of response. What they ask for is that we make real change. They ask that we look at the causes of offending. They ask that we look at giving them, for example, more colleagues to work with. They look for the fact that we have more police officers. And thankfully, I am part of a Government that has, in fact, provided the biggest police force we have ever had in this country. I meet doctors and nurses, for example, emergency consultants who say what we need to do is provide more support for our vulnerable members in society so they don\u2019t end up in these situations. I\u2019ve never had an emergency consultant come to me and say, \u201CPlease put me in the Crimes Act, Emily.\u201D It is a mystery to me that we are being asked to spend our time on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EBut one thing I have been asked to spend time on is the hierarchy of offending, and this is the second way in which this particular bill is simply not going to achieve what it needs. The hierarchy of offending, and we\u2019re talking sections 188 to 192 or so of the Crimes Act, sets out a scale of offending that starts at the most serious and goes to the least serious. So I think if you consider what a common assault is\u2014I wonder if it is worth just taking a moment to remind the House of what an injury and an assault and a wound, in fact, are. Because an injury simply means\u2014an assault is a touch. It may not have any physical impact whatsoever other than a touch. An injury leaves some sort of mark, but it may be very transitory. A red mark from being grabbed is considered an injury. A wound is when you break the skin, that level of greater seriousness, and then you get to grievous bodily harm (GBH) and you\u2019re talking broken bones and serious injury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s two elements to this hierarchy of offences. One is that it is based on the seriousness of the injury. The other is it is based on the culpability, on the mental element. And these are the two ways in which this particular offence really doesn\u2019t do justice to anyone. First, it completely conflates reckless or unintentional offending and actual intentional offending. And for some reason, both of them are given exactly the same sentence. The second point is it doesn\u2019t pay attention to the actual seriousness of what\u2019s done. It leaves the bizarre possibility that we could end up having a police officer who has suffered GBH, whose offender is charged with GBH and who gets a sentence of seven years, while his friend who just got a red mark on his arm, his offender\u2019s sentenced for 10 years. This is just a nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe final nonsense\u2014and I really want to get this in. The final nonsense is the idea that this would ever be a deterrent. There are studies after studies after studies. Deterrence only works if you\u2019re thinking about the offence before you commit it. Deterrence works for white collar criminals. Deterrence does not work for people who are not thinking, who are in the middle of a scuffle or an affray. Deterrence doesn\u2019t work for them. This bill, this offence, is candy for the mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022 data-id=\u00221874709692264f33942baf73e741478b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221874709692264f33942baf73e741478b\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Well, I learn new things about this job every day. Tonight, I learnt that if both our spokesperson and the back half are not here, the person on duty gets to do the speech. So I apologise, actually, to the House that I stand to take a very short call without the experience and research that I would normally like to bring to any topic that I stand here to speak on or that my colleagues would have brought. So I will be very succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003ENumber one, we absolutely support our first responders for the incredibly important and life-saving work that they do. We must look after them and acknowledge the role they do. I also honestly hope that we pay them well enough for what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003ENumber two, as my colleague Emily Henderson, who just resumed her seat, said, all the research shows that mandatory sentences do not form a deterrent\u2014they do not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9c8e86f0e294735a1ddfea2fef25da4\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: They were removed at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022169642e797924b60afd3f7fe5b7eb376\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce012c2beec94c428141e0324e1113b1\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re talking about cumulative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c99a6d7347487f89a749dcfb6a2201\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Cumulative, so there you go. This is again\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d37400e5240d44b09fb70356b7c2edd4\u0022\u003ESimeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you don\u2019t like those either?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a38285167d5426a930f13ac4dc904a4\u0022\u003EDr ELIZABETH KEREKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the clarification. Any kind\u2014whether it\u2019s mandatory, whether it\u2019s cumulative\u2014of higher sentencing disproportionately affects M\u0101ori and often Pacific Island people as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003EThe Greens accept the work of the Justice Committee. I know that we work very hard on the Health Committee and we work generally in consensus, so it\u2019s concerning to me, then, that the select committee wasn\u2019t able to bring something to this House that we could all support. But we cannot support this bill going forward. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u00229fb9d76e7bf04e929032e66a21f4c65c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fb9d76e7bf04e929032e66a21f4c65c\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and it\u2019s a pleasure to be able to take a call on this bill. Can I just start by acknowledging those who have put this bill together: a former MP from New Zealand First Darroch Ball who chaired the Transport and Infrastructure Committee that I sat on. I know that he was passionate about all things related to things like this and he\u2019s not here but I acknowledge Mark Mitchell for taking this forward. Also, I put an acknowledgment in for the Justice Committee. I know they\u2019ve looked at this bill twice over. I\u2019m not a member of that select committee, but I know there\u2019s been a lot of work and rework on that to ensure the best possible outcome could be achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, as the House has heard, on this side of the House we will be opposing the bill and you\u2019ve heard many good reasons. Part of this, the inspiration for me, has been that previous colleagues have talked about why we are opposing this and one of the big impetuses for this has been when I heard my colleague from Whang\u0101rei Emily Henderson, who really\u2014and I want to sum this up as a \u201Cprevention first\u201D mantra. As she said, she talked about if we wanted real change, we would be looking at the causes of offending first. They\u2019ve been summed up, unfortunately, by some as us being soft on crime. I reject that, because those comments, in my view, they lack authenticity. When I hear that it\u2019s a slogan, it\u2019s unreal, it\u2019s not true, it\u2019s inaccurate, it\u2019s almost cheap, because the bottom line\u2014and I know that the police have this as part of their value system\u2014is prevention first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ESo what are the causes of offending: very much to stop the old ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach. And what a slogan\u2014I mean, \u201Cambulance at the bottom of the cliff\u201D, because this very much is that; it doesn\u2019t address the root causes. It doesn\u2019t do anything deep. It doesn\u2019t really do anything other than what\u2014sometimes I think, you know, and I don\u2019t want to discredit the member who brought this forward, but maybe it was just easy to put this back in the box and to get this through. I\u2019m not sure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBut we also heard that we\u2019ve got some big numbers. I reflect, just on Sunday, I was at one of the largest community events in New Zealand being Newtown Festival and there you get a really good experience of our first responders who are there in action, be it the St John Ambulance service\u2014obviously in Wellington here we have Wellington Free Ambulance as well, but St John Ambulance do the event services part of the operation here in the city. We also saw the fire guys and the extent of the parade stretches right up to Newtown fire station, for those that know that part of Wellington, and you see them. And very much one thing I like about both of those entities is the effort that they put in for education. I think often education and responding in that way is seen as soft. And I look at so many cases where if we just simply took some time to educate people around some of these things and maybe then you wouldn\u2019t get the outcome or the crime that comes. To call that soft is really unfair to those first responders because they don\u2019t deserve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EThe police were there, a small crew\u2014estimate for 100,000 people. I know our police department really well. I know the four: there were two constables, senior sergeant, and an inspector. I know them well. To have only four tells me that it\u2019s a community that they feel safe in. And also our M\u0101ori wardens, I feel they take an active role through the Maori Community Development Act. They have the respect and mana now that goes well beyond just dealing with our M\u0101ori communities; much more in dealing with communities in general. They know the wh\u0101nau and families and I treat them as first responders also. But I knew I was probably going to be speaking on this and I observed them closely during the\u2014it seemed like a lifetime I was there, but 12 hours standing on my feet at that festival. I was thinking, \u201CWhat would happen if anyone did try to do anything to them, apart from the community responding and saying and preventing anything, hopefully, too bad?\u201D But this bill reminds you of how they would feel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI relate the conversation back to my colleague Emily Henderson, who really said, you know, \u201CI don\u2019t think this would be the sort of thing that they would want. They would want more resourcing.\u201D And we see that with the police service now where we\u2019ve got more police, be it sworn or unsworn. I mean, on that side of the House, let me tell you this. They\u2019d always want more human resource, whatever\u2014sworn, non-sworn, any bits and pieces, dare I say it, that make their lives easier. But this would be the last thing on their mind. I don\u2019t think they would go to work thinking, \u201CThank Christ, we\u2019ve got a piece of legislation there that will help us if anything goes wrong.\u201D That\u2019s not their kaupapa. They are there to help people and serve them, and if things do go wrong, they\u2019re there to simply do their job\u2014and I think without asking them, I must say, because it\u2019s our role to facilitate these outcomes on their behalf. And with my many years of knowledge working with each of these organisations\u2014even, dare I say it, and the previous speakers have spoken about nurses, too. We\u2019ve got a hospital there in Rongotai. We\u2019ve got the emergency department and observing our nurses and our medical staff in action, I think this would be the last thing on their mind. What they would like to see is more resource, more effort, more equipment, and, luckily, this is a Government that cares for core public services and those resources are and will be available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EWhen I look through some of the detail, I think a lot has been said, and I\u2019m just going to reinforce some of the things that have been said. I want to reaffirm to those who may be listening here tonight\u2014those first responders are probably out working or taking time off or resting from their shifts\u2014but any assault or any misdemeanour on a first responder, regardless of role, is completely unacceptable. I think the select committee\u2014I know and I had a lengthy chat with the chair, the member for Hutt South, Ginny Andersen, saying, \u201CWhy? What happened here?\u201D Why did this not get through, despite having a lot of work done to it in terms of what she said to it going through the select committee process twice? So how does something go through a process twice and still not get to an outcome where both sides can agree? And that puzzled me. That puzzled me. I thought, \u201CHold on a minute. How did we get to that?\u201D And I thought then, \u201COK, so we\u2019ve got to that stage. It\u2019s still coming to the House and it will come here knowing that we will oppose it. And why was that?\u201D And I thought. \u201CBecause the amendments that were put forward, they still didn\u2019t address the significant issues that this bill should have addressed\u2014the fundamentals that we\u2019ve heard previously.\u201D I thought, \u201CWell, that could have been better with extra work, but hei aha\u2014that\u2019s how it is. So I come back to that fundamental around saying: what, I guess, with a prevention-first approach is the need for this? I can\u2019t see it. Madam Speaker, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022de81c37bd2e04bdd8d8794eb9f079a53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de81c37bd2e04bdd8d8794eb9f079a53\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I stand before you tonight in support of this bill for our first responders, and I\u2019d like to, throughout this speech, address some of the comments that have been made from across the floor, but I\u2019ll start off in the first place with just a couple of points from the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOne is that we think this bill sends a powerful message that we support and wish to look after our first responders, and when I hear of going to a festival and there being lots of people around and we cannot imagine whether or not we\u2019re going to see somebody assault a first responder, I\u2019d like to tell you that it probably doesn\u2019t happen at festivals, with a lot of people around. What we see on the reality TV programmes is that it\u2019s happening late at night; it\u2019s happening where there\u2019s only a few people. What I\u2019m hearing from my colleagues next to me is that there\u2019s a nurse that got head-butted. It\u2019s too late then to actually jump in and help that person. What I\u2019ve heard of is a niece of one of our members, a nurse, who has been punched in the stomach. Again, it\u2019s too late to do something then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t see this as being a deterrence; the ACT Party sees it as being a consequence to the actions that somebody takes on one of our first responders. And, while I hear from across the House where they say St John Ambulance don\u2019t want this or first responders don\u2019t want this, that\u2019s not what we\u2019re hearing when we\u2019ve been lobbied, especially by the prison officers. I\u2019d like to commend the National Party for the three Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) that they put in, because the ACT Party was quite prepared to support those and actually see them as a really good compromise to the issues that the Labour Party had brought up during the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI too sit on the Justice Committee. One of the questions, actually, that was asked was, \u201CDo we need to create an offence?\u201D And the answer to that is, actually, yes, we do need to create an offence, to show that there will be a consequence to the actions of going after one of our first responders. We also had made the point of saying in the select committee that we needed to extend this so that the first responders included the GPs, included the doctors, the nurses, the fire response people, and also the prison officers\u2014the prison officers who, National have already told us, are living with a 92 percent increase in violence that is occurring within the prisons. They are looking for support, and we would like to support them. When I heard from the member from Taieri her sad story, I tautoko her story but I also heard her say that she has a high regard for St John, and I wonder: how can you have a high regard for any organisation but not for their safety when it comes to discussing looking after them as first responders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI also heard the other side talking about us wanting to lock up the offenders and throw away the key. Now, I\u2019ve not seen in the first bill or in any SOPs anything at all to say that we were wanting to lock them up and throw away the key. We want to see a consequence to the actions of going after one of the first responders. We\u2019d like to see the support from this Government to all of those first responders. And I\u2019ve seen heads shaking over there. I\u2019ve seen the Labour Party actually talk about wanting to create other solutions so that we don\u2019t have people wishing to attack the first responders, when the reality is, from where I\u2019m sitting, you\u2019ve had four years to actually get into that and make some positive changes and it\u2019s not occurring. What is occurring is an increase in the violence that is occurring to our first responders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are hearing about other solutions that are needed but haven\u2019t been told exactly what those solutions are. So I am going to factor in that it\u2019s probably that we need more mental health help, we need jobs out there, we need people in homes, and people are just getting frustrated and they\u2019re attacking others, and this is where we need to make sure that they know there is a consequence to that. To have no support of this bill is actually to not support the first responders, and we need to do that, because there\u2019s actually a failing in the other issues that are causing this response. So we need to do something in the first instance for them. To ensure that a general practitioner, that his nurses, that Fire and Emergency, that our constables, that our prison officers are actually held in high regard does mean that we need to pass a bill to help protect them, and it does send a message that this Government actually values the work and the effort that they put into our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAnd, further to that, I have four children; three of them are girls. One of them is studying to be a doctor, another one is studying to be a nurse, and the third one, when she leaves school, will become a paramedic, and I want to make sure that my three daughters are protected, that society will have the same respect for them that everybody in this House says that we have, by introducing a piece of legislation that will help protect them. So it\u2019s disappointing to hear what\u2019s happening from the other side of the House, but ACT will support National\u2019s Supplementary Order Papers and we would have wished that this bill could have gone further in order to support those first responders, those that are there now and those that will be there in the future. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222c2b2142dd594ddf9d0a53bca130e57e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c2b2142dd594ddf9d0a53bca130e57e\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I stand here as a someone who, before I came to this House, spent 41 years and nine months as a police officer, 21 years of them on the front line. I acknowledge my colleague Mark Mitchell across the way, who spent a little bit less time than that. I also acknowledge those of my ex-colleagues who are out there. Someone mentioned they\u2019ll be starting just heading off for night shift tonight, many of them, not knowing what\u2019s going to happen. That\u2019s one of the reasons why probably many of us liked joining the police\u2014that sense of better work stories and not quite knowing what\u2019s going to happen. It\u2019s certainly a job that I found very fulfilling over those years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI also stand here as someone who got a good hiding when I was in the police. Like all police officers, there were always a few scuffles and various other things that took place. But the one decent hiding I did get, like many assaults, came out of nothing. It was a Wednesday afternoon, called to a family violence\u2014it\u2019s called now; then we called it a domestic\u2014in Mount Victoria. A male had come around to try and kidnap his child. When we got in there, without going too deeply into it, I ended up having a baby thrown to me, which I ended up holding on to while I was attacked by three gang members, and I couldn\u2019t do much about it. I was eventually able to get one of the neighbours to take control of the baby, and we were able to then retaliate. But that was one of those experiences that\u2014and I\u2019m sure Mr Mitchell sitting there, and any police officers listening tonight\u2014anyone who\u2019s been in the police will all know, as there\u2019ll be prison officers, as there\u2019ll be those who have worked in emergency services. They\u2019ll all have that one moment where the violence of the moment really\u2014I suppose it was a bit of a loss of control at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut, as in many of these cases, the offenders in my case ended up spending some good time care of Her Majesty, as almost invariably these cases do. Even now, of course, in the Sentencing Act, it is an aggravating feature to assault a police officer, a prison officer, or indeed an emergency worker. So it\u2019s in there. Generally, also, when I was a member of the Police Association, when there was a sentencing after one of our officers had been assaulted, I always made contact to see if they were happy with the sentence. Generally they were, because almost invariably those people\u2014particularly after serious assaults, there was a long prison sentence involved. I won\u2019t say everybody was always happy and would like to have seen\u2014particularly the people who probably were the least happy were the partners of those who had been assaulted. I found that they were the people who really probably were more angry on behalf of the partner who had been assaulted than the actual person assaulted themselves. So I bring that up to give some context, some personal experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAlso in my last period before this job, I worked in the Police Association and spent my time getting the protection that police officers in particular need. I realise this is broader than just police officers, although I was pleased that by the time I finished, prison officers were able to avail themselves of some of the things that we\u2019d achieved for police, initially being\u2014OC spray was one, tasers, vests, even digital radios; all things that did all work to make our people\u2014as, I suppose, the society changed, and more surveillance of what\u2014and also, I suppose, even the size of police officers changed. Again, not all police officers look like Mr Mitchell and myself, who locked the scrum in Waip\u016B on Friday night. But, obviously, the police should be reflective of the society that they police, and that ensured that they did represent people of different sizes. So what was obviously necessary was to ensure that where perhaps the physical presence wasn\u2019t quite enough, therefore it was compensated for by the tasers, by the OC spray. So there\u2019s some balancing out necessary. So things do evolve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a little bit like having spent most of my career as a detective, something that\u2014Mr Mitchell, as a dog handler, never probably made those lofty heights. But he will sort of mention that detectives probably didn\u2019t work at night as much as the dog handlers, but we had to learn a little bit more. One thing that I did do is also train detectives at the same time. One of the things that always confused young detectives that came through when we were training them was this whole area around assaults and trying to define what was the assault. It used to be that we would set questions. How we\u2019d train detectives is we\u2019d do what we call a criminal liability, where you\u2019d outline a situation where they would have to go through and determine what offences had been committed. Of course, the basis of every offence is an intent, and where there\u2019s\u2014in establishing any case. Mr Bridges was here before. As he will know, having been a very good Crown solicitor in his day, you don\u2019t really take\u2014with the exception of a few cases where there is strict liability, and they are relatively few, you do need to actually establish an intent in all these cases. So, of course, what you\u2019d be then asking, having established there was an intent to assault, an intent to do whatever\u2014that was always an important part of the offence\u2014then you would start breaking down, and you\u2019ve heard some of the previous speakers talking about the hierarchy of offending. That hierarchy of offending was determined by the intent and by the injury. Most of it was overly complicated and remains overly complicated. My belief is more discretion by, shall we say, well-trained judges is probably what the system\u2014under certainly, clearly, the necessity for guidelines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThat was why, initially, when I was on the very-hard working Justice Committee\u2014good to see my ex-colleagues over there, still beavering away and obviously doing some work on this bill to try and probably revive it, I would have to say. That would be the only way I could say it, because it was quite clear that it was a bit of a bill with a solution looking for, probably, the problem, because it wasn\u2019t going to make any difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI think as legislators here, it\u2019s very important that when we do\u2014passing laws is really important, and we\u2019ve always got to know why we are doing it. So when we\u2019re standing in this House\u2014that\u2019s why the legislative process is quite a complicated one. There are many who speak to\u2014probably many of us before we came to the House. \u201CWhy don\u2019t you just pass a law to do this?\u201D We\u2019ve all heard it in our electorate offices: \u201CWhy don\u2019t they just do that? Why don\u2019t they just do that?\u201D Well, we are those \u201Cthey\u201D now, and when we get here, the first thing we realise is that we actually owe it to make sure that by time a piece of legislation does leave this place, it is a good piece of legislation\u2014a good piece of legislation that is going to do what it\u2019s intended to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI just refer to the previous speaker, Nicole McKee. She actually was quite surprising and revelatory, her speech, where she said she didn\u2019t see that this legislation was going to have any preventative act or element to it at all\u2014quite surprised me. She said it was all about retribution. And yet at the same time, she said she\u2019s got three daughters who are going to be going into the field where, actually, these\u2014and good; congratulations. They\u2019re going into the field. Yet she had just said that they deserve the protection. But, actually, this wasn\u2019t, as she said herself, going to provide them with any protection because it wasn\u2019t going to stop them being assaulted in the first place. Actually, I\u2019ll quote\u2014she actually said it was actually all about a consequence, not a deterrent at all. So anything we should do should be about making sure it deters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EActually, one thing all criminologists to the left, to the right, to the top, to the bottom all agree with is actually that the best crime prevention measure, the thing that actually determines whether they will commit a crime or not, where there is any intent, is actually a belief that they will get caught. That was what, when Mr Mitchell and his dog van would turn up\u2014a belief that they would get caught would be, actually, a thing that would determine their behaviour. So, actually, by Ms McKee\u2019s own admission, any legislation like this wasn\u2019t going to actually provide or prevent the assault, which she very honestly\u2014I think it was very insightful and honest of her to stand here and say that: that it was all about, for her, making sure there was a consequence for that action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWell, I can reassure her that, actually, there are consequences. While, as I say, particularly partners of those assaulted are often not happy with the sentencing, generally my experience has been where there\u2019s been the sort of serious assaults that this legislation has been geared towards and was pointed towards, there\u2019s never been a shortage of ability\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022af7f72c4dbb14d038126738cf6b8c073\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af7f72c4dbb14d038126738cf6b8c073\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f869a2cfc84d9a8e760a6b48506103\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f869a2cfc84d9a8e760a6b48506103\u0022\u003EHon Dr NICK SMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E This bill comes down to a simple principle: that this Parliament owes a duty of care for the ambulance officers, the firemen, the police, the correction officers, and the doctors in A \u0026amp; E that every day keep our community safe. I am appalled at the hand-wringing that we have seen from Government members refusing to provide those good people with the protection that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI\u2019m actually appalled at the sort of evidence we heard at the Justice Committee. Let me give you one: 90 percent of the doctors and nurses that work in our A \u0026amp; E up and down New Zealand have been physically assaulted in the course of providing care for New Zealanders. That\u2019s a disgrace. The very people that provide the care\u2014regardless of people, whatever violence they\u2019ve been caught up with\u2014are assaulted in their job. Let me give you another one: since Labour\u2019s been in Government, there\u2019s been a 92 percent increase in the number of assaults against our corrections officers. These are the people who actually put their life at risk to look after some of the nasty, bad people in society that pose harm. And, again, I say this Parliament owes those corrections officers the basic principle that if you assault, if you beat up, if you hurt those people who society requires to be there on the front line\u2014that we\u2019re going to protect them and the members opposite won\u2019t. It is as simple and as blunt as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EWhen I hear the Labour members opposite talk about principle\u2014let\u2019s talk about what happened to this bill. When it was a New Zealand First bill and they needed New Zealand First to put them into the Government, they supported it, but when it\u2019s a National bill, suddenly, they flip-flop and they\u2019re opposed to it. Their opposition to this bill has got far more to say with the petty politics that I\u2019ve seen almost every members\u2019 day in the term of this Parliament. When National members sponsor good bills, Labour are so narrow-minded and petty that they oppose it regardless. That pettiness was exposed in the select committee. Members on this side of the House heard the evidence and proposed amendments that would make the bill better. Labour members of the committee admitted the amendments would make the bill better but voted against them. Well, I think we owe a duty as members on select committees, whatever the bill is, to make it the best possible bill. Members opposite are like robots for the executive and will just do whatever they\u2019re told, even when it breaks their basic principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003EI look forward to engaging with the ambulance officers, the policemen, the corrections officers that get weasel words from members opposite. When it comes to voting in this Parliament, these guys are more interested in backing those that hurt our people on the front line. I say to members opposite: have a damn good look in the mirror. This is one of those occasions when Parliament needs to not speak but act in favour of backing those public servants, those volunteers in communities from Kait\u0101ia to Bluff who put their life and their work on the line to protect society. I\u2019m proud to be part of the National Party, that knows right and that\u2019s prepared to back these good people and is prepared to send a very clear message to the community of New Zealand: that you don\u2019t beat up on those people on the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd6d865ddb4d401ebe62381389b10a4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd6d865ddb4d401ebe62381389b10a4d\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have just a short call this evening, but first I wanted to acknowledge, like many others have in the debate tonight, those people in our communities who are working on the front line to protect our communities. I stand here tonight and acknowledge the many cousins, friends, and people in our community who are part of the ambulance service, who are part of the fire and emergency service, who are in the police, who are corrections officers, and who are in A \u0026amp; E. I am related to many; many are my friends. I would not stand here in this House and deliver a speech which I don\u2019t believe to be true, that I believe is going to protect those members of my wh\u0101nau, of my friends, and of my community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411a19b2d64a47238e3988cf2eefd45f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Why did you vote for it at first reading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236e465194aa64f77adf42194b3f8f26b\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I want to correct something that Dr Nick Smith said. Let\u2019s correct the record, because anybody listening might take what you just said as the truth. It is not. Let\u2019s go back to the beginning of the process. Yes, we supported it to first reading. If you go and look at the Hansard debates, you will see in those debates that we had concerns and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5ce07cb51b84f64a9146b5c08ae7b67\u0022\u003EErica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The member just said that my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith had said something that was not true, and I understand it to be a breach of Standing Orders to claim that a member has wilfully misled this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752d73d07e2d45b09e6449febfa72a13\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member. It is up to the member concerned to take a point of order on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089ab297c4c84c11b1df674552704f3c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Indeed, the member said just that and also breached Standing Orders in respect of referring to you when you were distracted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb6ba949d284a609aaf6bdc6862d5de\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I ask the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d597755bd7477c82d03ff8f7dc3a1f\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022004198d6a70e4dd39629c13783341361\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Willow-Jean Prime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b2cbc449064c6b8e50c35c114984b7\u0022\u003EWILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to make it clear and put it on record for anybody who might be confused by the prior contribution that, yes, we did support this to first reading, but we noted our concerns with the member\u2019s bill in those debates. We supported the first reading because\u2014and let me say\u2014we believe that the issue of ensuring our first responders are protected is important, so we wanted a select committee process\u2014we wanted to hear submissions. But I say we noted that we had numerous concerns with the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ESo when it went through that process\u2014when it went through that process; when we heard the submissions; when we looked at what things might be done to rectify the situation\u2014we could not support it at second reading. We were not confident that our concerns had been addressed. So it proceeded because National, in fact, supported it. It is an unusual case where we have had two select committee processes on it. We reopened it for submissions\u2014we heard further submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003ENow, I wasn\u2019t a member of the committee in the last Parliament, but I am a member of the Justice Committee in this Parliament. One of the things that has been highlighted by many of the speakers on our side of the House this evening is that once you remove what really was one of the fundamental proposals in the member\u2019s bill\u2014which was mandatory sentencing\u2014it really doesn\u2019t leave much to achieve in terms of this. Why is that? The other side would have you believe that we don\u2019t want to support our first responders at all\u2014right? But we actually already have legislative provisions to be able to weigh that into the consideration of sentencing, and the appropriate people to do that are the judges. They already have the ability to do that; they do not need this piece of legislation to give them the power and the ability to do that. That already exists. When you take one of the main proposals out of the member\u2019s bill\u2014which was around mandatory sentencing, which the other side also doesn\u2019t support\u2014then it really doesn\u2019t leave much else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI am confident that what already exists in the legislation will support our first responders. The judges are able to take into consideration the aggravating factors when determining sentencing, and therefore our side of the House\u2014the members of our select committee from the Government\u2014do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI do want to just finally acknowledge that many of those who we are talking about tonight will probably not be tuned into this debate this evening because they\u2019ll be undertaking their good work, but I do not want it to be misunderstood or misconstrued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00224e1d381a7f364dceadb0273f676a4e5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e1d381a7f364dceadb0273f676a4e5d\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take a call on this piece of legislation. I\u2019ve been sitting here listening to this debate, and I\u2019ve been listening to the Government members of this House give what I think is a slap in the face to our front-line officers, our police officers, our corrections officers, our nurses, our doctors in emergency departments (EDs), our paramedics, and I am appalled and I am very disgusted\u2014disgusted\u2014by this attitude of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Government has refused through the select committee process to help to improve the bill. Select committee is meant to be there to help improve the legislation. This Government got in the way and did nothing. And I haven\u2019t heard one single suggestion tonight as to how they are going to make it any safer for the front-line officers and the front-line first responders who put their lives on the line every single day to protect New Zealanders and to keep them safe\u2014not a single suggestion. All they\u2019ve said is the current legislation is fine. Well, I ask them to say that to the nurses and the doctors, the corrections officers who are seeing a 92 percent increase in assaults by prisoners\u201492 percent increase in assaults under Kelvin Davis\u2019 leadership; that is unacceptable. And there\u2019s not one single suggestion that they\u2019ve brought to Parliament tonight to try to solve that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EActions speak louder than words, and actions speak a lot louder than the crocodile tears I\u2019ve heard tonight. I\u2019ve heard stories about, \u201COh, I met this first responder the other day.\u201D, or \u201CI was at this event down in this suburb of my electorate and I saw how amazing their work was.\u201D Well, I\u2019m sorry, but actions speak louder than words, and actions speak a lot louder than these fake crocodile tears, which I just think is absolutely disgusting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI firmly believe that victims should be at the heart of the criminal justice system. That\u2019s the National Party\u2019s view\u2014victims should be at the heart of the criminal justice system. And I\u2019m not going to stand here in Parliament and make excuses for criminals and excuses for people who bash up front-line officers\u2014I\u2019m not going to stand by and make excuses for them. The New Zealand Police Association in their submission on this piece of legislation made it very clear: it is not in the job description of a police officer to be assaulted in the line of work that they do, but it\u2019s happening far too often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Corrections Association of New Zealand would say the same thing: it\u2019s not in the job description of a corrections officer to be assaulted in their line of work. They work in the most dangerous environment, working with the most dangerous people, and it is not in their job description, and they are being assaulted more and more often. Not only just being assaulted\u2014and some people listening might be thinking, \u201COh well, that\u2019s just a bit of a bruise or a bit of a clip around the ears.\u201D\u2014the number of corrections officers who have had to received medical care has increased from 162 to 292 per year under this Government; an 80 percent increase in the amount of Corrections Association staff requiring medical treatment. And we hear the Minister trying to downplay these assaults and saying, \u201COh, well, we\u2019re trying to encourage more reporting.\u201D Well, you might be trying to encourage more reporting, but there\u2019s more people being assaulted more seriously. And he tries to say, \u201COh, well, the number of serious assaults is not going up.\u201D Well, it\u2019s pretty serious if they\u2019re needing medical treatment and taking time off work. There were corrections officers that I\u2019ve met who\u2019ve had to have serious time off work, operations, all sorts of procedures done so they can get back to work, and then it\u2019s the emotional stress and the emotional strain which comes later afterwards. And I see the Police Association talking recently about post-traumatic stress injury, and the injury which is caused from these traumatic events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWe have to also recognise the seriousness of this. That\u2019s why this piece of legislation is so important. It\u2019s important because it does make a difference. And I\u2019ve heard the Government members try to downplay this piece of legislation to say, \u201CWell, it literally doesn\u2019t do much\u2014it doesn\u2019t do anything.\u201D Well, I\u2019ll tell you what, it does two things\u2014two very important things. Firstly, it puts in place a specific offence, so if you assault a corrections officer, police officer, an ED doctor or nurse, or a paramedic, there is a specific offence that you will be charged with for committing that crime. And they say, \u201COh, well, it\u2019s already an aggravated factor at sentencing.\u201D Well, it might be for some of them, but it\u2019s not for the nurses. Patricia, who\u2019s been emailing some of us, watching from her home in the Waimakariri, she\u2019s been telling us it doesn\u2019t fit for her, and this is another reason why this piece of legislation is needed. It sends a very clear message that as Parliament, we will not accept these people being assaulted. It sends a very clear message that there should be a deterrent sentence, and that people who do this should be punished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd some people say, \u201COh, we shouldn\u2019t be sending people to jail.\u201D Well, this Government has a goal of reducing the prison population by 30 percent, and I wonder if that\u2019s the reason why they don\u2019t want to vote for this bill, because actually a few more people might go to jail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b162fe37cd7b4b2a931851ed6ce55218\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a97a2c7debf461cb04e343538da377f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Dr James Shaw\u2014Hon James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b314615472f4335896ae272057f182e\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I aspire to a doctorate one day, Madam Speaker. This is the earliest opportunity I\u2019ve had to ask this point of order\u2014it\u2019s just taken me a while to look up the Speaker\u2019s rulings. I just wanted to ask you to clarify the ruling that you made before when you asked Willow-Jean Prime to withdraw and apologise in relation to two points, one of which was that she had used the word \u201Cyou\u201D and drawn you into the debate, and the other was that she had said that a statement by Dr Nick Smith was untrue. And I wanted to ask you which one of those two things you were asking her to withdraw and apologise for, because I\u2019ve been checking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276d0cf1c72884aaaa4286538094338ee\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, I think I understand the point of order that the member is making\u2014the member will resume his seat\u2014and the member, you\u2019re quite right, took a point of order. I ruled that Dr Nick Smith had risen to his feet and had taken offence, and that is why I asked the member to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f33d335762746bb96f679a187be15ba\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. And a reminder to members to take points of order, I guess, when the issue actually comes up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut the point here is this bill does two specific things: the specific offence, which actually recognises the importance of the work that these people do, and it is an incredibly important piece of work that these people do. And I was talking about the fact that maybe this Government doesn\u2019t want these people to possibly go to jail, because actually they want to reduce the prison population by 30 percent, and the Green Party signs up to that goal too. This Government is namby-pamby when it comes to actually taking action against people who cause serious offences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe second point is it puts in place the ability for a judge to have a cumulative sentence, and this is most important to those corrections officers who get assaulted in their day-to-day work by a prisoner who might be on remand, and then what happens? They go before the judge with an additional charge of assaulting a corrections officer, and the judge has to use the totality of the offending, and there\u2019s no actual additional punishment for that offence. In fact, it\u2019s essentially a free punch on a corrections officer. And these are being caused particularly by gang members. We know 60 percent of the assaults on corrections officers are being caused by gang members. The Mongrel Mob turned up to Parliament the other day and told us how they\u2019re just such a kind, betterment association. Well, actually, in January, 16 of the 51 assaults on corrections officers were caused by Mongrel Mob members. They\u2019re not a group of people who just want to be kind and caring. And so there should be a very clear message sent: there are no free punches in the prisons against corrections officers, and that\u2019s what this piece of legislation will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is incredibly important. I am proud to be supporting it. I\u2019m absolutely disgusted at the arguments put up by the other side\u2014the crocodile tears about their support for front-line officers, but they will not do the work and actually put their words into action, and that\u2019s what we as politicians are elected to do, and the Government and the Green Party have failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022cad0ab1cea90413eb22c4a52bd957ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cad0ab1cea90413eb22c4a52bd957ead\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to rise at this late hour and take a call to speak to the Protection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill. This is, of course, a bill that has come through the Justice Committee, of which I am a member. As we\u2019ve heard tonight, there was a majority committee recommendation on this report in favour of taking note of the report, but not in favour of the bill progressing. I do want to acknowledge that there was an alternative view, but, unfortunately, that view still left us with a very unworkable bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI am a new member of the Justice Committee, having been elected last year, and one thing I\u2019ve noticed, just comparing it to my experience in sitting in other committees, is that it is a highly emotive committee because of the nature of the issues that come before us. They are often issues that we deal with that are about harm done to individuals. I think, because of that, it requires an emotive response\u2014and as it should, which is why we should be sitting there, hearing those important submissions that we heard on this bill. And then we have an obligation as lawmakers, a responsibility, to reflect on the principles of law that we are setting in place in this House that should pay respect to the principles of criminal law\u2014they are principles about proportionality, about responding to the needs of individual perpetrators, but also individual victims. It is about taking a four-tiered principled approach to crime, which, yes, it does include prevention; yes, it does include punishment, as my colleague Nicole McKee spoke to earlier this evening; it does include community safety; but it does also include rehabilitation. In this House, we have an obligation as lawmakers to consider those principles. That is why the scale of offending and the scale of sentencing is critical. I\u2019ll come back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EGiven I am the last speaker, I will very quickly recap the key features of this bill which amend three separate Acts: the Crimes Act, the Sentencing Act, and the Summary Offences Act. As others have traversed earlier this evening, the big change was really that creation of the new offence of injuring a first responder or prison officer with intent, the requirement of a minimum sentence being imposed of six months for those convicted of the new offence, and requiring that any sentence of imprisonment be imposed cumulatively on any determinant sentences. I do acknowledge that there was an alternative view in that respect that agreed with the majority view removing that minimum sentence. I will speak to that later. Thirdly, there was the expansion of the existing offence of assaulting a police officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo in terms of our process at the Justice Committee, a few of my colleagues have mentioned that we received 74 submissions. I actually just wanted to reference a few this evening as I speak to why I am opposed to this bill progressing. I wanted to first reflect on the submission of the Law Society, and they said this: \u201CThe desire to offer greater protection to first responders and prison officers while on duty is understandable. It is however not necessary to amend the criminal statutes to achieve this objective. The Crimes Act and Summary Offences Act already contain specific criminal offences for assaults on police and other responders, and the Sentencing Act 2002 expressly recognises the status of the victim\u2014police and prison officers, and emergency health or fire service personnel at emergency scenes\u201D. This was section 9(1)(fa) and section 9(1)(fb) of the Sentencing Act that the Law Society were referencing. So we do already recognise first responders in our legislative scheme. Simon Bridges from across the floor referenced the fact that we needed to signal that this was wrong; this is the signal. It is already there. So it doesn\u2019t add in that respect. We already have the signal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EBut what it does create is an inconsistency in terms of the basic principles of criminal accountability. It doubles the maximum penalty for one type of assault\u2014injuring with intent to injure\u2014but not for other assault offences. That leaves a huge inconsistency in terms of the law, because offences not only need to be proportionate to the crime\u2014and this is just in response to my colleague Mark Mitchell from across the floor, who wanted a further explanation to this. So it is not just that the sentence needs to be proportionate to the crime, crimes also need to be considered across the board so that there is consistency between life offences. So doubling an offence like this because of the nature of the victim would be extremely unusual in terms of criminal principles. It wouldn\u2019t be unusual for it to be an aggravating factor, which it currently is, but it would in terms of doubling the offence. So in terms of the inappropriate outcome in this respect, injuring a first responder or a prison officer with an intent to injure would be considered twice as bad in terms of penalties. So that is the hierarchy in comparison. That doesn\u2019t sit right in terms of criminal principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ENow, the other issue is mandatory sentencing. I wasn\u2019t going to speak on this, but as Simon Bridges has raised this as an issue that he believes should sit within parts of the criminal law, I do think I should address this. There are no offences for which a court must impose a minimum mandatory sentence. The proposal for a mandatory minimum sentence is a significant departure from principles of sentencing in New Zealand, so that is except for the crime of murder. That is the only time when a mandatory minimum sentence is imposed. It is a significant departure. JustSpeak said this well in their submission to us. They said, \u201CMandatory minimum sentences necessarily increase incarceration\u2014the human rights issues and overcrowding in the prison system in the United States of America, which pioneered \u2026 mandatory minimum sentence[ing], should be a salutary lesson to Aotearoa New Zealand.\u201D, which I completely agree with. The Howard League also echoed that to us in their submissions, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ESo I do think that, in terms of mandatory minimum sentences, they are absolutely a disproportionate response, and there are other commentators who make similar comments but expand their arguments against minimum sentences, including that they focus on particular kinds of offences which mostly tend to have an effect on a certain category of individuals, as well; that they often impact the nature of bargaining when you are going through a criminal trial, which can sometimes confound that process as well; that putting people in prison, obviously, costs money; that there is little policy of evidence; that it prevents further commission of crime; that it doesn\u2019t benefit the victims; and that there are alternative ways of having a more effective way to address criminal sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EI would also like to comment on the proposal around cumulative sentencing which stayed in the alternative proposal that has come to the House today. So section 83 of the Sentencing Act actually already provides for the court to impose a cumulative sentence if it considers it appropriate. So to add this to another offence would, again, change that balance or the assumptions of whether a cumulative sentence is appropriate or not. At the end of the day, we have allowed judges to make decisions about what the appropriate level of sentencing is, because they have a closer view of the offender and of the victim and of the nature of the crime. Cumulative sentencing ties their hands in a way that is actually unhelpful to preventing further offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003ELastly, I would just say that I think the motivation behind this bill is good. I think it is about deterrence. But deterrence is about more than just increasing sentencing; it is about addressing the causes of crime. It is about increasing support to our police, which this side of the House are absolutely doing. So thank you for the opportunity, again, to speak to this bill, Madam Speaker. I cannot commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022739b03589d8644438327fb53b3f83a9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022739b03589d8644438327fb53b3f83a9a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before we come to the votes on this bill, I\u2019ll let you know that there will be two questions put, which has been agreed by the Business Committee. The first is about the House taking note of the select committee\u2019s report. When we\u2019ve dealt with that, the second question is on whether this bill should proceed. So the question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00225e499aa5d8bf4e44b5601007094b5f9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e499aa5d8bf4e44b5601007094b5f9f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question now is, That this bill now proceed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c58c990da94744338a4673722203d153\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226c82f7b78942467ca2bff1329e9c4b77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c82f7b78942467ca2bff1329e9c4b77\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill will not proceed, and will be withdrawn from the Order Paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3968df089194b46a96b429aa46b09a0\u0022\u003EPolicing (Killing a Police Dog) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da104a7dfc3940b7b80e72134db2a186\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000732\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 7 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef146f3b7db4400991135b23813e6157\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef146f3b7db4400991135b23813e6157\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wasn\u2019t sure whether I wanted to take a call on this bill or not, because whenever I speak about my police dogs, I tend to get emotional. But I felt that it was appropriate to support my colleague Matthew Doocey and thank him for bringing this bill to the House. Reflecting back and responding to what was a very strong feeling and message being sent to him by his own community in relation to police dogs and them being killed on duty, I thought the best way for me to do this was just to share some personal insights and tell a story to the House about exactly what police dogs are all about. I wanted to respond, in particular, to the comments made by the Green Party member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, calling them attack dogs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo, firstly, let me talk about my own dog, Czar, and the section that I was a part of. Czar and I, in probably the first couple of weeks we were operational, were called out to a job where a young guy\u2014it\u2019s a sad story; he was suffering from mental health\u2014had armed himself with a samurai sword, put a bulletproof vest on, and went up to Rotorua Hospital with the intent of killing some of the nursing staff up there. I was called out. Fortunately, they managed to lock the doors and he couldn\u2019t get in, and when I arrived he was making his way down to a primary school in Rotorua. During the arrest, both Czar and I were stabbed with the samurai sword. I wasn\u2019t sure whether Czar would make it, but he did. He returned to duty, and he worked out a fully operational police life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll come back to Czar, but I want to talk about Rajah. Rajah was Kevin Weatherly\u2019s dog. In Gisborne, Kevin and I were the Armed Offender Squad (AOS) dog handlers there for many years, and so Kevin and I worked very closely together and our two dogs Czar and Rajah worked closely together. Kevin was called out to a violent domestic one night, where the offender had taken a baseball bat and he\u2019d assaulted his partner so badly that she was crippled on the floor and couldn\u2019t move. When Kevin arrived, the offender moved to the kitchen and took out a butcher\u2019s knife with the intent of finishing what he\u2019d started. Kevin and Rajah intervened immediately, got into the house, and Rajah was stabbed in the neck and the chest during the arrest. Rajah never really made a full recovery, in my view, in terms of returning to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThen I want to talk about Woolf, Bill Eivers\u2019 dog in Gisborne. During an arrest, Woolf was stabbed through the eye and lost his eye. Although he returned to police duties, he was never the same as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI spoke with Mike Sandle today. Mike is actually the manager of the Black Caps and has been for 10 years, and has been a part of what\u2019s been a very successful leadership team with them. But he was a police dog handler with me, and he reminded me of his dog Rock. Mike lost contact with Rock one night, with a very violent offender that had managed to escape an AOS cordon, and Mike lost contact with Rock. Rock actually found the offender. They tumbled into a river and the offender drowned him\u2014held him under and drowned him. This story actually has a happy ending, because somehow\u2014they\u2019re not sure what happened\u2014Rock, who was obviously being held under, had let go of the offender. He was washed down the river, and somehow got a gasp of air. When Mike found him, they were able to revive him, and he actually went back to duty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to tell one other very quick story. Czar and I were called out one night to go to the Taup\u014D emergency centre. Pete Masters was there, a very well-known New Zealand rescue helicopter pilot. It was a terrible night, there was a storm\u2014snow, sleet, gale-force winds. He said, \u201CThere\u2019s a two-year-old girl that\u2019s gone missing down at Ruapehu, at the national park. It\u2019s marginal flying. I\u2019ll go if you\u2019ll go.\u201D, and I said, \u201CWe have to go\u2014it\u2019s a two-year-old. We\u2019ve got to get down there as quickly as we can\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ECzar lay on the floor, basically, on our flight down\u2014I don\u2019t want to recount that flight again. We arrived there, Czar worked tirelessly through the night in sleet and in rain, sucking freezing cold air up over his olfactory glands. His feet were torn up with volcanic rock and snow. Thankfully, a guide\u2014Cliff Jones\u2014and Pete Masters went back up in the helicopter and went ahead of where I was tracking. We found that two-year-old. I\u2019ll never forget the look in Cliff\u2019s eye when he came out holding her, and, you know what? Czar wanted to get to her. Czar\u2019s tail was waggling, and\u2014for Mr Ricardo\u2014he didn\u2019t want to bite her. He wanted to nuzzle her. He wanted to give her a lick because he\u2019d been working for three or four hours to try and find her in very difficult conditions. A week later, he was down in T\u016Brangi confronting an offender with an axe who was on methamphetamine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThis bill is about what value do we do put on our police dogs. What value do we put on them? I say that the five years in Matt Doocey\u2019s bill is a fair value to put on the life of our police dogs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5a9c926f7845358d19329560ed52f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5a9c926f7845358d19329560ed52f7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022 data-id=\u00223fbb3b88d6be478eb7e6bc69eae7218e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fbb3b88d6be478eb7e6bc69eae7218e\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON (Labour\u2014Whang\u0101rei):\u003C/span\u003E God make me the person my dog believes me to be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EMy dog is currently wearing the cone of shame. He would not make a police dog. He is a very, very nervous labradoodle. But, I\u2019ll tell you what, there is nothing like the love of a dog, like the devotion of a dog, and like the selflessness and the loyalty of a dog. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EMark Mitchell, thank you for those stories of the remarkable spirit that we are so incredibly lucky to have when we partner with a dog. There is absolutely nothing like it. I learnt to walk holding on to an Old English sheepdog called Arthur. One of my children actually wants to a policeman so that he can be a police dog handler. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWith all of that, however, it is our job as parliamentarians and as lawmakers not to act on sentiment but to make a difference for our society and make a real difference for our society. I rose earlier and I said that in the short time I have had the privilege to stand in this House, I have been somewhat disheartened by the bills that have been proposed that seem to me sheer emotion and not a lot of practicality. You may well want to reflect on the fact that a party that prides itself on its hard-headed pragmatism is the party that is putting forward measure after measure, with not a lot of actual effect behind it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EWhen there are good bills that come across the House, they are looked at seriously, and they are accepted by this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e50852196e146e6a0534496e2e396a8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d13293f4ba3472aa1e8570576b6c8e7\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228abb661640104c6bb94bee25929ad699\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a19010528e8d40a58944407ad789612c\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c97560935744274b52a1da8c7857aaf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member could make a passing reference to the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612f3a3d13e644bd84d87e15be4ae5ed\u0022\u003EDr EMILY HENDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, a passing reference, ma\u2019am. No, my point is that this bill is one of a number that we have looked at which don\u2019t have a real, practical impact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe problem with this is: 40,000 call outs, 56 years of police dog service, and, as tragic as each of these incidents is, 26 deaths only in 56 years, and some of those were actually accidents. I ask the House whether there is really a need, other than sheer emotion, to bring this forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Act already makes aggravating features possible to take into account the death or the injury of a police dog. We have, under section 9(1)(a), actual or threatened violence or the use of a weapon; under section 9(1)(d), the extent of the loss and the damage and the harm\u2014I don\u2019t think anyone would not expect a judge to pay attention to the loss of a police dog\u2014particular cruelty, under section 9(1)(e) or the victims\u2019 vulnerability, under section 9(1)(g); and, finally, in section 9(4), any other aggravating factor the court sees fit. We have the mechanics already to take the loss of a police dog into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIf the death results from ill-treatment, we can then turn to the Animal Welfare Act, which was\u2014I would like to point out\u2014amended by the National Government in 2010, as far as the penalties went: in section 28, five years\u2019 imprisonment or a fine not exceeding $100,000 max., or both, for anyone who wilfully ill-treats an animal with the result that it dies or is permanently disabled or seriously injured and impaired. The National Government had the opportunity in 2010. They changed it to section 28, and I suggest that we stick with what is actually working and sensible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to go back to the point I was making earlier. If this is a deterrent sentence, again, it ain\u2019t gonna work, and I don\u2019t see the point in doing things that ain\u2019t gonna work for the sheer candy and the sugar hit of making ourselves feel good. I\u2019m here to make a difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002217bfa49a-da49-4001-9466-0b4bfd70b3f3\u0022\u003EIn 1941, we removed the death penalty for murder. In 1949, the National Government brought it back. In 1957, we removed it again. Do you know why? Because the rate of murder doesn\u2019t change. Crimes of passion\u2014and killing a police dog, that\u2019s one of them\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00221e60014c81ee42fd946648e45cc794b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e60014c81ee42fd946648e45cc794b8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022 data-id=\u00225153d855791b4bf08ea8db876058f5e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225153d855791b4bf08ea8db876058f5e5\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE (Labour\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to be able to speak on, I guess, another issue involving first responders, and in this case it\u2019s the Policing (Killing a Police Dog) Amendment Bill. I want to just acknowledge the New Zealand Police, and particularly the dog section. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI know members of that section and the work that they do, and can I acknowledge Mark Mitchell and Matt Doocey for not only their work in it, but in the previous speech I talked about that not being genuine. I believe there is a genuine desire here from both members to do this, because I know that, and, look, I have seen a police dog in action on a rare occasion and I did wonder what the heck was going on. You could hear sirens. I was down at Shorland Park there on the south coast of Wellington and I just heard a flurry of Holden Commodore dog vans, and out pop dogs and off they run. Police were everywhere and I didn\u2019t really know what was going on, but what I do know and what I did see is that the police dog handlers rewarded their dogs for capturing the offender, or whoever was doing a deed that was wrong, and they did that with love. I thought, \u201CNow, there we go\u2014there goes a part of the police service I certainly wouldn\u2019t want anything to do with.\u201D, but I do acknowledge the importance of our police dog section in the New Zealand Police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EI said also in the last call that I spoke on regarding first responders that there had been calls on our opposition to that being part of the soft on crime mantra of this Government. Can I reinforce to you that this is not true, and that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e978865e-57e5-41d6-a7f6-b49daae78630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba34cef177141a79b11259143562430\u0022\u003EHon Dr Nick Smith\u003C/span\u003E: It is true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf9265f7801647bfa126cd722e090d56\u0022\u003EPAUL EAGLE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not true, and can I just correct the member who\u2019s being a little unruly on that side of the House that the mantra of this police service under this Government is prevention first, and they will know that. They will know that anything that happens comes with a prevention-first value approach, and they know that if things worked previously, then they wouldn\u2019t need to do things like this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EBut, in that essence, we are opposing this bill, and that\u2019s no disrespect to those members. It\u2019s really saying, \u201CHold on a minute.\u201D, in terms of increasing the maximum sentence for the killing of a police dog from two to five years\u2019 imprisonment. That underpins that decision. It underpins it because it\u2019s saying that, actually, I know\u2014and I said this in my last speech\u2014that the policemen and women of Aotearoa New Zealand go to work not thinking that there will ever be a case where they go there thinking, \u201CHopefully, there\u2019ll be a sentence of five years versus two.\u201D That\u2019s not what they think. They\u2019re there to do a job and to do a job well. That includes just catching the offender or contributing to the process of catching an offender, and the dog is the mechanism in that sense. So there\u2019s no disrespect there. The issue here is just purely, I believe, around the deterrent being the extension of the time frame from two years to five years. That\u2019s, for me, the heart of the opposition to such a bill\u2014saying \u201CDoes that underpin the need for this amendment bill to go forward?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard already some of the reasons why in terms of the killing of police dogs\u2014very few\u2014and look, it could all change in a flash. Something might be happening right there, right now somewhere around Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022217f4585-f6ef-408d-9318-8a6b8506920b\u0022\u003ECan I say this: that on balance in terms of how this bill\u2019s been put together, what the bottom line for this, and whether it will make a major difference, I don\u2019t believe it will. I know that the police dog section of New Zealand Police would want any protection they can get, but this probably isn\u2019t one of them. I don\u2019t know that, because I haven\u2019t sat down and talked, certainly, with our district police service, but I do know this: that more equipment, or more resources of any sort, would certainly override this amendment bill. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2991772cd1540e5b88a3355f981daec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2991772cd1540e5b88a3355f981daec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes in reply\u2014Matt Doocey. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00224d73c8d1c7aa413c9b83fd4447f85522\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d73c8d1c7aa413c9b83fd4447f85522\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Tonight, we are debating the Policing (Killing a Police Dog) Amendment Bill. There are really only two positions in this debate. The first is that you believe the current penalty of two years for killing a police dog in the line of duty is sufficient, which is the status quo\u2014and that is the Government\u2019s position\u2014whereas on this side of the House, we wholeheartedly believe the penalty for killing a police dog should be increased to five years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis issue was raised with me by my constituents in Waimakariri after the death of the police dog Gazza in 2016. I listened to my constituents and I brought this bill up to Parliament because I am representing their views. Gazza was the seventh dog to be killed in New Zealand since 1972. Twenty-four police dogs have given up their lives in the line of duty to keep us safe, to keep our families safe, and to keep our communities safe, and why I am proud to be standing here supporting this bill tonight is that I have the support of thousands of Kiwis who have backed this bill and signed my petition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ECurrently, the penalty for killing a police dog in New Zealand is too lenient. When you look at other countries around the world, in the United States, it\u2019s up to 10 years; in Canada, up to five years; and in South Australia, up to five years. We are too lenient with our penalty for killing a police dog. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Police Association supports this bill. They said they support the section 53 which is my bill in its entirety. They said, \u201Ca police dog is a key part of a police team, and, within police, any act of violence towards the police dogs is considered similar to an attack on a police officer. It is a direct attack on law and order and needs to be recognised for the serious offence it is.\u201D The Police Association support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Justice wrote, and has advised that the proposed legislation remedies a discrepancy in New Zealand law, because what we have in New Zealand law is that this bill will propose increasing the penalties to bring it in line with the maximum term of the Animal Welfare Act 1999. We have a discrepancy in our current law. In the Animal Welfare Act, if you were to kill a dog, you would get up to five years. In the Policing Act, it\u2019s capped at two years. So the Ministry of Justice is advising Parliament that this bill will remedy a discrepancy in our current laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ETo finish, I want to finish with the words of Josh Robertson. Not everyone will know who Josh Robertson is. He reached out to me when he heard of this bill on social media. Josh is the police dog handler of the late Gazza, the police dog that died in the line of duty that I wrote this bill about. He writes, \u201CI am humbled that the public would choose to support increasing penalties for injuring or killing our police dogs. These dogs help victims, apprehend dangerous offenders, and protect fellow police staff. I received overwhelming support from a wide range of the community when my police dog Gazza was shot and killed in 2016. The offender shot at me through a closed door, and Gazza was shot and killed as a result. It left me devastated, as well as a lot of the public who support hard police dogs\u2019 work. Gazza worked on the front line for only 2\u00BD years and apprehended over 250 offenders\u2014250 offenders that probably would not have been caught if he wasn\u2019t there. These dogs are invaluable to police and to the public. There is no excuse to kill or injure a police dog.\u201D That\u2019s the words of the police dog handler of the late Gazza.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the words of the Ministry of Justice, we\u2019ve heard the words of the Police Association, we\u2019ve heard the words of New Zealanders, and what did we have tonight from the Government MPs? Absolutely disgraceful. Shame on them tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002221bbfd9d557440da81f9db3f0b0078cc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Policing (Killing a Police Dog) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 43\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 65; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226901ef063f304597b25550425276c272\u0022\u003EHolidays (Parent-Teacher Interview Leave) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b67c3a20df04c6195fc8b481a0ba9b1\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3416a7b7c784ca4885bda8ca434a96f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3416a7b7c784ca4885bda8ca434a96f\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Holidays (Parent-Teacher Interview Leave) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a privilege and an honour to be able to bring the Holidays (Parent-Teacher Interview Leave) Amendment Bill to the House for its first reading. Firstly, though, can I mihi to the Hon Kiritapu Allan, as this is my first opportunity to speak in the House since the news of her wero. I want to acknowledge, as a newbie settling in, that Minister Allan showed tautoko, aroha, and guidance to our class of 2020. Kia kaha, kia m\u0101ia, kia manawanui e hoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESecondly, may I give gratitude and thanks to the Hon Jan Tinetti, who initially gave thought to the concept of removing barriers for parents and caregivers to ensure they are able to attend our educational hui, or meetings, with their tamariki kaiako, or teachers. It is a privilege to be able to take this important mahi forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Holidays Act 2003 to allow workers with tamariki up to four hours\u2019 parent-teacher interview leave in each 12-month period of current continuous employment. Such leave may not be carried forward. Employers must be notified at least three working days before the leave is to be taken, and may not unreasonably withhold consent to an employee\u2019s request for this leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EWe know that in many cases good employers already offer this leave to their employees. However, this bill will ensure that all parents have the opportunity to work in partnership with the educators to support the child\u2019s educational success. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EAs it stands, there is a growing trend in having insecure and casualised workers. This makes it particularly difficult for parents and caregivers in those employment arrangements to take leave to attend their tamariki parent-teacher interviews. It is important to ensure all parents and caregivers have the same opportunity to be involved in their child\u2019s education and to attend these important hui, and the amendments in this bill will ensure they will have this opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EThese hui are an important opportunity for wh\u0101nau to discuss their tamariki\u2019s academic progress. They are one of the few opportunities for these crucial discussions and provide a unique opportunity that allows for wh\u0101nau and kaiako, or teachers, to support our tamariki\u2019s growth. There is a larger social cost associated with not implementing this amendment, as tamariki and their wh\u0101nau would not otherwise be able to work together for positive educational outcomes face to face. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EAlthough we had a successful response to COVID-19, there was some disruption for children and their families. It is important that parents and teachers have the opportunity to discuss their child\u2019s education and achievement and how they can be supported to reach their full potential. Further, these huis will give an opportunity to k\u014Drero about how they are coping and learning and their social interactions at kura after the COVID-19 lockdown. It is widely known that one of the predictives of tamariki academic achievement is not how prestigious their kura is, but, rather, the engagement from home in their school lives, as well as tautoko and support and encouragement from their wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019m sure this House is aware, our most vulnerable New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori and Pacific communities, are more likely to be our shift workers and our casualised and insecure workers, and, therefore, they are the most affected as the Act currently stands. The amendments in this bill will rectify this and give these workers the same opportunities as, for example, our nine-to-fivers, reducing the current inequality and allowing workers to attend these important educational hui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EI understand that some on the other side of the Whare feel prioritising paid time off work for workers to support their children, teachers, and schools, and ensuring good educational outcomes, is a price too high to pay. But may I add: the proposed cap to four hours per year on minimum wage would amount to $80 before tax. Even if either parents and caregivers both worked for the same employer, you\u2019re talking about $160 before tax maximum per year proposed, and that\u2019s if they use the whole four hours. I do not think that is a high price to pay to ensure we support wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and great educational outcomes that will benefit society as a whole. But, again, the cost of not doing this is far too high in terms of not just educational outcomes but wh\u0101nau, tamariki, and kaiako\u2014teachers\u2019\u2014wellbeing, adding further to the poverty and inequality we see in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EFurther, I also know that some people on the other side of the Whare may not have a realistic picture or have truly experienced how the other half live. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to take time off unpaid and not having to worry about an hour or two short in your pay packet so you can attend your parent-teacher interview. Many of our vulnerable wh\u0101nau and communities, including our shift, insecure, and casualised workers, and M\u0101ori and Pacific, are not in this privileged position. Let me advise from experience that one or two hours unpaid for workers and their wh\u0101nau can mean choosing between a bill or two that you can miss out or skip paying for this week, and then you can save worrying till next payday about how you\u2019re going to catch up on these payments or these bills later, knowing that your tamariki has to come first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EI would add here that not a week after I was lucky enough to have the bill\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef610eed6ef457dabf448c86c700641\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I apologise to the member. Interjections are to be rare and reasonable. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a54a1711a0a542f9935c3c6cbeafdaba\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to add here that not a week after I was lucky enough to have this bill pulled from the biscuit tin, the Green Party of Aotearoa wrote to me in support of this bill and the kaupapa. Likewise, Te Paati M\u0101ori co-leaders Debbie Ngarewa-Packer and Rawiri Waititi have also written to me in full tautoko of this kaupapa and this bill. This is because those members in those parties also understand that the proposed four hours to ensure wh\u0101nau, parents, and caregivers can get along to their parent-teacher interviews is a game-changer for many of our most vulnerable wh\u0101nau, and ensures accessibility, opportunity, and equality for all tamariki to have the support they need to succeed in education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really proud to be part of a Government who understands this and has a realistic understanding of the struggles facing our wh\u0101nau, especially our vulnerable wh\u0101nau, and schools and teachers, who are currently having to find creative ways to ensure they can get engagement and face-to-face time with wh\u0101nau to k\u014Drero about their tamariki\u2019s academic outcome and identify any goals or areas that need further mahi or support. This can often mean teachers needing to go over and beyond. This could be, for example, having to do their weekends and knocking on wh\u0101naus\u2019 doors, as that\u2019s how important the face-to-face time with parents, caregivers, and teachers is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003EThis Government is taking views and steps to reduce poverty and inequality, especially for our tamariki. We know this means lots of mahi in unison, not pieces here and there, or making policy and legislation that benefits only the few. This Government is making policy and passing legislation for all, because we know that is what will make the real impact in reducing poverty and inequality in this country, further ensuring access and support to all New Zealanders. This Holidays (Parent-Teacher Interview Leave) Amendment Bill is just one part of this progressive Government\u2019s plan to ensure all New Zealanders get to live their best lives. I look forward to seeing this bill through to the Education and Workforce Committee, where I anticipate changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e01250b7ff7c42e295d31db00628b636\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e01250b7ff7c42e295d31db00628b636\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House stands adjourned until 2 o\u2019clock tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2021041471624e5d9afb4fad85e79e85d6f190c1000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"